92: Leave the Mask On - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #92 | January 12, 2001 92: Leave the Mask On Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 92 集 | 2001 年 1 月 12 日 92：保留面具 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So Margy's a reporter, and she wanted to do a story about her dad.
序言 Ira Glass 玛吉是一名记者，她想写一个关于她父亲的故事。
So she calls him up, asks him if he'd be willing to do it.
于是她给他打电话，问他是否愿意这样做。
They have a quick conversation.
他们进行了快速交谈。
He says yes.
他说是的。
But then he called me back.
但后来他给我回了电话。
He called me back a couple of hours later.
几个小时后他给我回了电话。
And he said that he wanted to talk to me about something.
他说他想和我谈谈一些事情。
And I said, "Well, what?" And he said he wanted me to know that it completely moved him that I wanted to see him with all of his masks off.
我说：“嗯，什么？”他说他想让我知道，我想看到他摘下所有面具，这让他完全感动。
And I told him, "Well, I don't."
我告诉他：“好吧，我不喜欢。”
Leave the mask on.
戴上面罩。
Margy Rochlin Leave the mask on.
玛吉·罗克林 继续戴上面具。
It scared me a little bit.
这让我有点害怕。
Margy's family is one of those families where everybody tells everything to everybody else all the time anyway.
玛吉的家庭是这样的家庭之一：无论如何，每个人总是把一切都告诉其他人。
So the thought that her dad would now really let go was kind of daunting.
所以一想到她爸爸现在真的会放手，就有点令人畏惧。
There are just some things you do not want to know even about the people who you're close to.
有些事情你甚至不想知道，即使是你最亲近的人。
In those moments, when you hit that wall, you get this picture of them and this picture of yourself that is different than you see at any other time.
在那些时刻，当你撞到那堵墙时，你会看到他们的照片和你自己的照片，这与你在其他任何时候看到的都不同。
And you have to choose.
你必须做出选择。
Do you want that new information or not?
您是否想要这些新信息？
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台，这是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, invite a variety of writers and reporters to tackle that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，邀请各种作家和记者来探讨该主题。
Today on our show, Leave the Mask On, stories of those situations when somebody tries to tell you just a little bit more than you really want to know and when you have to decide what are you going to do.
今天在我们的节目《戴上面具》中，讲述了当有人试图告诉你比你真正想知道的更多一点的情况以及当你必须决定你要做什么时的情况。
Act One, Father's Day, the story of Margy Rochlin, her dad, World War II, and what your kids make of you when you drop one life and start another in your 70s.
第一幕，父亲节，玛吉·罗克林、她的父亲、第二次世界大战的故事，以及当你在 70 多岁时放弃一种生活并开始另一种生活时，你的孩子会如何看待你。
Act Two, Mama, Can You Hear Me?
第二幕 妈妈，你能听到我说话吗？
in which Dan Savage, a man who makes his living writing a nationally syndicated sex advice column admits that there's one group of people he does not want to discuss sex with ever.
丹·萨维奇（Dan Savage）以撰写全国性性建议专栏为生，他在其中承认，他永远不想与一群人讨论性问题。
And sadly for him, it's a group of people who happen to have his home phone number.
对他来说可悲的是，一群人碰巧知道了他的家庭电话号码。
Act Three, The Unmasking, a story of guys who wear real masks, real masks like superheroes, in their jobs as costumed wrestlers, and how much smaller they feel, how humiliated, when they have to take those masks off.
第三幕，揭开面具，讲述了那些戴着真正面具的人的故事，像超级英雄一样的真正面具，在他们的工作中扮演盛装摔跤手，当他们不得不摘下面具时，他们感到多么渺小，多么羞辱。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Father's Day.
第一幕，父亲节。
Well, one of the most unusual things that can happen as you age is to see a new side of somebody in your own family, somebody who you feel like you know backwards and forwards, somebody who you have known for decades.
嗯，随着年龄的增长，可能发生的最不寻常的事情之一就是看到自己家里某个人的新一面，某个你觉得自己很熟悉的人，某个你已经认识了几十年的人。
Writer Margy Rochlin had this experience recently with her father as he entered this new world that she never imagined that he could ever be part of.
作家玛吉·罗克林（Margy Rochlin）最近与她的父亲有过这样的经历，因为她从未想象过他会成为这个新世界的一部分。
About four years ago, my father made an illegal right-hand turn and ended up at traffic school.
大约四年前，我父亲违规右转，最终进入了交通学校。
At the beginning of the eight-hour course, a pretty, blond instructor asked that each class member stand up in front of the group and give his or her name and talk about the law they violated.
在八小时的课程开始时，一位漂亮的金发教练要求每个班员在小组面前站起来，报出自己的名字，并谈论他们所违反的法律。
This is what my father told me that he said.
这是我父亲告诉我的。
Look, my name is Fred Rochlin.
听着，我的名字是弗雷德·罗克林。
I was born and raised near Nogales, Arizona.
我在亚利桑那州诺加利斯附近出生并长大。
My parents had immigrated there from Russia.
我的父母从俄罗斯移民到那里。
It was a border town--
那是一个边境小镇——
A couple of months before, he had taken a seminar from the famous monologist Spalding Gray called "True Stories: Autobiographical Storytelling." By the time he returned home, he'd accumulated a pocket full of addresses from the 12 or so professional actors that had also attended and a habit of quoting Spalding Gray.
几个月前，他参加了著名独白学家斯伯丁·格雷的研讨会，题为“真实的故事：自传式讲故事”。当他回到家时，他的口袋里装满了出席的 12 名左右专业演员的地址，并且养成了引用斯伯丁·格雷的名言的习惯。
Spalding says, "Make 'em laugh, make 'em cry." Spalding says, "Go beyond the frame." Spalding says, "Where's the emotional charge?" Spalding says, "Exaggerate." My father told me that it was very important to "get your work out there."
斯伯丁说：“让他们笑，让他们哭。”斯伯丁说：“超越框架。”斯伯丁说：“情感负担在哪里？”斯伯丁说：“夸张了。”我父亲告诉我，“把你的工作做好”非常重要。
I was flunking out.
我考试不及格。
Well, that December, the Japanese government saw fit to bomb Pearl Harbor.
嗯，那年 12 月，日本政府认为轰炸珍珠港是合适的。
So next month, January, just two weeks before finals, I got very patriotic.
所以下个月，一月，就在决赛前两周，我变得非常爱国。
And I enlisted in the Army Air Corps.
我加入了陆军航空队。
Now, the Army--
现在，陆军——
My father kept on like this for about 15 minutes.
我父亲这样持续了大约15分钟。
And then the instructor jumped up, began waving her arms in the air, and shouted at him that if he didn't stop talking and sit down, she was going to lose her job.
然后教练跳了起来，开始在空中挥舞双臂，并对他喊道，如果他不停止说话并坐下来，她就会丢掉工作。
She was swept back to her place at the back of the classroom by booing traffic violators who couldn't believe that the old guy with the thinning hair, the wrinkled khaki pants, and the white tennis shirt was the one that turned this exercise in forced contrition on its ear.
她被交通违规者的嘘声冲回了教室后面的位置，他们不敢相信那个头发稀疏、穿着皱巴巴的卡其裤和白色网球衫的老家伙是让这次练习被迫悔悟的人。
And it wound up being kind of simple.
结果事情变得很简单。
It seemed like all the kids that were WASPs got sent off to pilot training.
似乎所有 WASP 孩子都被送去接受飞行员训练。
And then, kids with German or Scandinavian last names were sent to bombardier school.
然后，具有德国或斯堪的纳维亚姓氏的孩子被送到庞巴迪学校。
Mexican kids were given a choice between paratroops or infantry.
墨西哥孩子们可以选择伞兵或步兵。
And then there were the Jewish kids, what to do with them.
然后还有犹太孩子，如何处理他们。
Well, hell, there were only 10 of us.
好吧，见鬼，我们只有 10 个人。
And every single one of us was sent to navigation school.
我们每个人都被送到了航海学校。
See, our drill sergeant explained, "Look, everybody knows you Heebs are good with numbers.
瞧，我们的教官解释道：“瞧，每个人都知道你们希布人擅长数字。
And all a navigator is is just a [BLEEP] flying accountant."
导航员只不过是一名[BLEEP]飞行会计师。”
About a quarter of an hour passed before my father came to the end of his story and walked back to his metal folding chair.
大约一刻钟过去了，父亲讲完故事，走回他的金属折叠椅旁。
Later, he told me that for a couple of seconds, there was only a stunned silence.
后来他告诉我，有那么几秒钟，只是一片震惊的沉默。
Then, slowly, he said the class rose to their feet and gave him his first standing ovation.
然后，他慢慢地说，全班同学都站了起来，第一次起立为他鼓掌。
It was nine years ago when my father abandoned the square world of architecture to his partners and retired.
九年前，我父亲将方形的建筑世界交给了他的合伙人并退休了。
The first thing he did was rent a small studio near his house, set up a drafting table, and find himself a handful of jobs.
他做的第一件事就是在他家附近租了一个小工作室，摆了一张绘图桌，然后给自己找了几份工作。
It was around this time that he started showing up at my apartment unexpectedly.
就在这个时候，他开始出人意料地出现在我的公寓。
At least once a week, my doorbell would ring and there he'd be, standing with his tool box.
每周至少一次，我的门铃会响，他就会拿着工具箱站在那里。
He'd ask me if I had anything that needed fixing.
他会问我是否有什么需要修复的地方。
Whenever he'd say this, he'd always have an uncomfortable look, like he was embarrassed.
每当他说这句话的时候，他的表情总是很不舒服，好像很尴尬。
Until that time, I thought I had seen every kind of expression on my father's face.
直到那时，我以为我在父亲脸上看到了各种各样的表情。
But back in those days, when he'd be standing there, there was something so vulnerable about him, it was almost as if I was looking at a stranger.
但在那些日子里，当他站在那里时，他身上有一种非常脆弱的感觉，就好像我在看着一个陌生人。
So I'd think of something that was broken, and he'd follow me up the steep flight of gray carpeted stairs to my house.
所以我会想到有什么东西坏了，他会跟着我走上铺着灰色地毯的陡峭楼梯到我家。
And with each step, he'd shake off a little more of the uncertainty until, by the top of the stairs, he'd resemble my father again.
每迈出一步，他都会摆脱更多的不确定性，直到到达楼梯顶时，他又会像我父亲一样。
Sometimes I'd wonder if I'd only imagined that he'd seem to be feeling a little bit lost.
有时我想知道是否只是我的想象，他似乎感到有点失落。
If you were going to draw a timeline that showed the period before and after my father really got into the swing of retirement, the after part would have to begin with Spalding Gray's monologue workshop, because after that, nothing was quite the same again.
如果你要画一条时间线来显示我父亲真正进入退休摇摆的前后时期，那么后面的部分就必须从斯伯丁·格雷的独白研讨会开始，因为在那之后，一切都不再一样了。
Before I get too far ahead of myself, it would probably be appropriate to explain what lured my father to alternative theatre.
在我太过超前之前，可能应该解释一下是什么吸引我父亲进入另类戏剧。
But the truth is, I haven't a clue.
但事实是，我没有任何线索。
I can say that once I discovered that his dramatic sub-genre of choice was semi-autobiographical anecdotes from the 1940s, I found it a lot easier to get behind him 100%.
我可以说，一旦我发现他选择的戏剧子类型是 20 世纪 40 年代的半自传轶事，我就发现 100% 支持他容易多了。
He is an unpredictable man.
他是一个难以预测的人。
As far as I'm concerned, he could have just as easily decided to appear naked onstage, wearing a beret, or reciting the speech of my nightmares, which would go something like this-- "My name is Fred Rochlin.
就我而言，他也可以很容易地决定赤身裸体出现在舞台上，戴着贝雷帽，或者背诵我噩梦般的演讲，内容可能是这样的——“我的名字是弗雷德·罗克林。
My third and worst-behaved daughter is Margy Rochlin.
我的第三个也是行为最差的女儿是玛吉·罗克林。
Rarely was there an argument in our household that she wasn't at the heart of." And if this happened, I'd have to do a preemptive strike, getting my version of things out into the zeitgeist before he did.
我们家里很少有争吵不是她参与的。”如果发生这种情况，我就必须先发制人，在他之前将我的观点带入时代精神。
Let his act be spin control.
让他的行为成为旋转控制。
"Writing the One-Person Play," "Go Solo," "The Playwright's Kitchen Ensemble." These are the names of some of the classes that he took, titles that have an uncomplicated sound yet are somehow filled with hope.
“写一个人的戏剧”、“独奏”、“剧作家的厨房合奏团”。这些是他选修的一些课程的名称，这些名称听起来并不复杂，但却充满了希望。
I can understand why he would thumb through the extension class syllabus and they would beckon to him.
我可以理解为什么他会翻阅扩展课程的教学大纲，而他们会向他招手。
For all this, the first time I saw him perform, I was totally surprised what a different world he had become a part of.
尽管如此，当我第一次看到他表演时，我完全惊讶于他已经融入了一个多么不同的世界。
He was appearing in a group show at a tiny space on a dark side street in Santa Monica.
他当时正在圣莫尼卡一条黑暗小巷的一个小空间里参加一场群展。
To get in, you walked up this driveway, then into this dusty anteroom, then into this makeshift theater.
要进去，你沿着这条车道走，然后进入这个布满灰尘的前厅，然后进入这个临时剧院。
And against one wall, there were wooden bleachers, splintery gangplanks that my aging relatives who came to support my father teetered along while I held my breath.
一堵墙边，有木制看台和破碎的跳板，我屏住呼吸，前来搀扶父亲的年迈亲戚们摇摇晃晃地走着。
There wasn't really a stage, just a painted concrete floor with a curtain behind it.
那里并没有真正的舞台，只是一块粉刷过的混凝土地板，后面有一个幕布。
The show began.
演出开始了。
A couple of hairy men performed in drag so unbelievable that it was impossible to know if they'd just failed miserably at trying to pass themselves off as women, or if their disguises were intentionally for laughs.
几个毛茸茸的男人的变装表演令人难以置信，让人无法知道他们是否只是在试图冒充女性时惨遭失败，或者他们的伪装是否是故意为了搞笑。
A skinny woman took a running jump and landed on her knees on a wheeled dolly and came whizzing in front of the audience to begin a rambling narrative about religion which culminated with her holding a giant picture frame in front of herself and doing a wriggling booty dance for the crowd.
一名瘦弱的女子纵身一跳，跪在一辆带轮子的小车上，呼啸着来到观众面前，开始漫无目的地讲述宗教，最后她举着一个巨大的相框，为观众跳起了扭动的战利品舞蹈。
I can't imagine what my relatives were thinking.
我无法想象我的亲戚们在想什么。
If you skimmed your finger down the list of names on the program, you'd find my father at the very bottom.
如果你用手指浏览一下节目中的名单，你会发现我的父亲排在最后。
It said, "'Old Man in a Baseball Cap' by Fred Rochlin." An hour and a half later, he came out.
上面写着：“弗雷德·罗克林的《戴棒球帽的老人》。”一个半小时后，他出来了。
He looked smaller to me, and he was squinting his eyes tightly.
在我看来，他显得更小，而且他紧紧地眯着眼睛。
His voice sounded strange, like his, but more emphatic.
他的声音听起来很奇怪，和他的一样，但更强调。
He talked about being a navigator during World War II, of how he'd witnessed the miracle of childbirth by helping a squadron doctor named Connor deliver the baby of a 15-year-old Italian peasant girl.
他讲述了二战期间作为一名航海员的经历，讲述了他如何帮助一位名叫康纳的中队医生接生一名 15 岁意大利农民女孩的孩子，见证了分娩的奇迹。
So Connor lifted up this gal's dress, but he couldn't get it past her belly, her swollen belly.
于是康纳掀起了这个女孩的裙子，但他无法把它越过她的肚子，她肿胀的肚子。
So he reached into his bag, and he pulled out one of those blunt-nosed surgical scissors and went [RIP], and just ripped that rag right apart.
于是他把手伸进包里，拿出一把钝头手术剪刀，然后[RIP]，把那块抹布撕碎了。
Well, I was shocked.
嗯，我很震惊。
Look, I was very young.
你看，我还很年轻。
And although I'd had those usual teenage sexual forays in the backseat of a Chevy, really, I had never, ever seen a naked woman before.
尽管我在雪佛兰后座上进行了青少年常见的性行为，但说实话，我以前从未见过裸体女人。
And here was this woman, this 14 or 15-year-old woman, with this huge belly and these two tremendous breasts.
这是这个女人，这个14或15岁的女人，有着巨大的肚子和两个巨大的乳房。
And her skin, her skin was black and yellow and blue and purple and red and magenta, all blotchy.
还有她的皮肤，她的皮肤是黑色、黄色、蓝色、紫色、红色和洋红色，全都是斑点。
And Connor said, "Jesus Christ.
康纳说：“天啊。
I think this gal's got peritonitis.
我认为这个女孩得了腹膜炎。
Rockets, we've got to do something.
火箭队，我们必须做点什么。
We've got to try to save the baby, may not be able to save the mother.
我们得尽力救孩子，可能救不了母亲。
You tell Mrs. Carafa to warm some water.
你告诉卡拉法夫人加热一些水。
We're going to have to do a Cesarean right here, right now.
我们现在就必须在这里做剖腹产手术。
I'm going to make an incision right about here.
我要在这里做一个切口。
And you start cutting her pubic hair." And I looked at that pubic hair.
然后你开始剪她的阴毛。”我看着那根阴毛。
She had hair from her belly button, all over her belly, down her hips, down her thighs, all the way to her knees.
她的肚脐、腹部、臀部、大腿、一直到膝盖都长满了毛发。
It was just a mess of hair.
那只是一团乱糟糟的头发。
Connor brought my dad there as a translator.
康纳把我父亲带到那里担任翻译。
He spoke Spanish, not Italian, but nobody seemed to care.
他说西班牙语，而不是意大利语，但似乎没人关心。
The two of them lifted the girl onto a table.
两人将女孩抱到了桌子上。
And the doctor performed a Cesarean and delivered a healthy baby boy.
医生进行了剖腹产，生下了一个健康的男婴。
Mr. Carafa came over, poured us each a shot of brandy.
卡拉法先生走过来，给我们每人倒了一杯白兰地。
We said, "Salud," tossed that down.
我们说：“祝你平安”，然后就把它扔掉了。
The girl, she was asleep.
那个女孩，她睡着了。
And Connor packed up his gear, and we started to go.
康纳收拾好装备，我们就出发了。
And Mrs. Carafa stopped me.
卡拉法夫人阻止了我。
And she said, "[SPEAKING ITALIAN]?" So I told her, "Guillermo." And she said, "[SPEAKING ITALIAN]." And I said, "Connor, they're naming the baby after you." And Connor just sort of smiled and shrugged.
她说：“[说意大利语]？”所以我告诉她，“吉列尔莫。”她说：“[说意大利语]。”我说：“康纳，他们正在用你的名字给孩子命名。”康纳只是微笑着耸了耸肩。
And I was proud of him.
我为他感到骄傲。
And I thought, goddamn, good for you, Connor.
我想，天哪，这对你有好处，康纳。
And good for the American army.
对美国军队也有好处。
We'd done the right thing.
我们做了正确的事。
And then we started to go.
然后我们就开始出发了。
And this time, she stopped me and said, "[SPEAKING ITALIAN]?" And I said, "Frederico." And she said, "[SPEAKING ITALIAN] Guillermo Frederico Carafa."
这次，她拦住了我，说道：“[说意大利语]？”我说：“弗雷德里科。”她说：“[说意大利语]吉列尔莫·弗雷德里科·卡拉法。”
And after helping bring this baby into the world, my father told what it was like to go on a bombing run seven hours later that culminated with the complete and total destruction of a small town in Hungary that he knew was the wrong target.
在帮助这个婴儿出生后，我父亲讲述了七小时后进行轰炸的感觉，最终彻底摧毁了匈牙利的一个小镇，他知道这个小镇是错误的目标。
At the end, the audience did what they did at the traffic school.
最后，观众们做了他们在交通学校所做的事情。
They rose to their feet and gave him a standing ovation.
他们站起来，起立为他鼓掌。
Then it dawned on me why he was at the very end of the show.
然后我突然明白为什么他出现在演出的最后。
No one wanted to follow him.
没有人愿意跟随他。
I should have known that he'd do well.
我早该知道他会做得很好。
He's an overachiever.
他是一个成绩优异的人。
His success came with a rapidity that made all my struggling actor friends heartsick.
他的成功来得如此之快，让我所有苦苦挣扎的演员朋友都心痛不已。
He spent two snowy months in residency at the MacDowell Writers' Colony.
他在麦克道威尔作家聚集地驻地度过了两个月的雪天。
In his first year as a performer, the national cultural correspondent for the New York Times did a big piece on him, calling his stories "morally complex and starkly funny." Producers and screenwriters want to meet with my father.
在他作为表演者的第一年，《纽约时报》的国家文化记者对他做了一篇大文章，称他的故事“道德复杂且非常有趣”。制片人和编剧想见见我的父亲。
I'll repeat that.
我再说一遍。
Producers and screenwriters want to meet with my father.
制片人和编剧想见见我的父亲。
200 people applied to perform at the prestigious Louisville Arts Festival this year.
今年有 200 人申请在著名的路易斯维尔艺术节上表演。
My father was one of the four people chosen.
我的父亲是被选中的四个人之一。
For eight nights, he performed his one-man show.
一连八个晚上，他都在表演他的独角戏。
My father, Fred Rochlin, the artist formerly known as Dad.
我的父亲弗雷德·罗克林（Fred Rochlin）是一位艺术家，以前被称为“爸爸”。
Marushka started off in the wrong direction.
Marushka 一开始就走错了方向。
OK.
好的。
Almost.
几乎。
Rather than come downstage, I want you to just move to your right.
我希望你不要走到台下，而是向右移动。
OK.
好的。
Marushka started off in the wrong direction.
Marushka 一开始就走错了方向。
Here's another new experience my dad is having in his 70s.
这是我父亲七十多岁时的另一项新经历。
He's doing press with his kid.
他正在和他的孩子一起做新闻。
Though he's having all this success, he's not used to being subjected to the opinions of others.
尽管他取得了这些成功，但他不习惯受到别人的意见。
Not that long ago, I went to the small theater where my father rehearses.
不久前，我去了爸爸排练的小剧院。
I snuck into the back of the room and watched him roaming around the stage, his words echoing off the walls.
我偷偷溜进房间后面，看着他在舞台上走来走去，他的话在墙壁上回响。
At first, he didn't notice I was there.
起初，他没有注意到我在那里。
Then he looked up and saw me.
然后他抬起头，看到了我。
And then he looked away.
然后他移开视线。
He looked self-conscious.
他看起来很不自在。
He didn't look like anyone I knew.
他看起来不像我认识的任何人。
"This is awkward," he said.
“这很尴尬，”他说。
I can't remember him ever saying that to me before.
我不记得他以前对我说过这样的话。
So in other words, the issue of which direction to walk in is raised, dealt with, and resolved all in one spot.
那么也就是说，往哪个方向走的问题，都是在一个地方提出、处理、解决的。
And then you move through the next section, which is a whole different thing.
然后您将进入下一部分，这是完全不同的事情。
My father has a director.
我父亲有一个导演。
Her name is Laurie Lathem.
她的名字叫劳里·莱瑟姆。
She's a member of the community that he's become a part of that doesn't include his family or his old life.
她是他所融入的社区的一员，不包括他的家人或他过去的生活。
When he first started taking Laurie's classes, he was 30 or 40 years older than everyone else.
当他第一次开始参加 Laurie 的课程时，他比其他人年长 30 或 40 岁。
He didn't seem to mind.
他似乎并不介意。
This might have been a part of the draw.
这可能是抽签的一部分。
It made him exotic.
这让他变得充满异域风情。
I don't know what intrigued him about the out-of-town seminar populated only by militant lesbians.
我不知道是什么让他对这个只有好战女同性恋者的外地研讨会感兴趣。
And when I ask him about it now, he pretends not to remember.
现在当我问他这件事时，他假装不记得。
OK, you're still not telling me about-- I know that you were in a group.
好吧，你还没告诉我——我知道你在一个团体里。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I really don't know, Margy.
我真的不知道，玛吉。
I want to be accurate.
我想要准确一点。
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
It may have been some of my folklore, one of my hyperboles.
这可能是我的一些民间传说，我的夸张之一。
Well, you called me up-- I don't mean to get too insistent here, but you called me up and asked me if I had ever heard of a performer named Muff Diva.
好吧，你打电话给我——我不想在这里太坚持，但你打电话给我，问我是否听说过一个名叫莫夫·迪瓦（Muff Diva）的表演者。
Muff Diva.
莫夫女主角。
Well, I was not in her class.
嗯，我不在她的班级。
I wasn't.
我不是。
I would remember that.
我会记住这一点。
When he first started talking about it, he would tell me funny stories about young women with tattoos, pierced tongues, and shaved heads, who would only do rants about oppression, about how men kept them down, and how when they said the word "men," the entire room would stare at him.
当他第一次开始谈论这件事时，他会给我讲一些有趣的故事，关于那些有纹身、穿舌头、剃光头的年轻女性，她们只会咆哮压迫，男人如何压制她们，以及当她们说“男人”这个词时，整个房间都会盯着他看。
Later, he told me it bugged him at first.
后来他告诉我，一开始这让他很烦恼。
"I didn't do anything," he said.
“我什么也没做，”他说。
Then it went on for so long, and they kept staring at him so accusingly, that he couldn't help but be amused.
然后这样持续了很长一段时间，他们一直用指责的目光盯着他，他不禁觉得好笑。
But then a couple of days later, he called to tell me that he was feeling ashamed that he'd made light of these women.
但几天后，他打电话告诉我，他为自己轻视了这些女性而感到羞愧。
Their angry diatribes had given way to unhappy memories about leaving home too quickly and parents that were critical of them and of trying to make do on small paychecks from their crummy, menial jobs.
他们愤怒的谩骂已经被不愉快的记忆所取代，这些记忆包括过快离家、父母对他们的批评以及他们试图靠卑微的工作赚取微薄的工资。
These women had stirred protective feelings inside of him.
这些女人激起了他内心的保护欲。
"Their lives are so hard," he told me.
“他们的生活是如此艰难，”他告诉我。
"I think they think of me as a father."
“我认为他们把我当作父亲。”
The day after the rehearsal, he does a warm-up show for Louisville.
排练后的第二天，他为路易斯维尔做了一场热身表演。
My father's very nervous.
我父亲非常紧张。
Meanwhile, I'm worried that my taping will throw him off.
与此同时，我担心我的录音会让他失望。
So we pin a wireless mic on him before the performance.
所以我们在表演前给他戴了一个无线麦克风。
And I go outside, and I sit on the stairs.
我走到外面，坐在楼梯上。
Before the show starts, this is what is recorded straight onto the tape.
在演出开始之前，这就是直接录制到磁带上的内容。
I don't actually hear it until later.
我实际上直到后来才听到。
Hitler drove a goddamn BMW.
希特勒开着一辆该死的宝马。
Hitler drove a goddamn BMW, and we're driving them in America today, and it makes me sick.
希特勒开着一辆该死的宝马，而我们今天在美国也开着它们，这让我感到恶心。
Oh, you son of a-- Hitler drove a goddamn BMW.
哦，你个王八蛋——希特勒开着一辆该死的宝马。
What do we want to learn about our parents?
关于我们的父母，我们想了解什么？
What do we want to see?
我们想看到什么？
This is an odd thing to admit, but when I took the tape home, I realized that I was scared to listen to it.
承认这一点很奇怪，但当我把磁带带回家时，我意识到我害怕听它。
I was scared of what I might find out.
我害怕我可能会发现什么。
Until I listened to this tape, I'd never heard what my father sounded like when I'm not there.
在我听这盘磁带之前，我从来没有听过我不在场时父亲的声音。
Here's what I found out.
这是我发现的。
When I'm not around, he sounds just like him.
当我不在的时候，他的声音就像他一样。
This is it.
就是这样。
Showtime.
开演时间。
Fred Rochlin You bet.
弗雷德·罗克林 你敢打赌。
Have a great time.
玩得很开心。
Fred Rochlin Thank you.
弗雷德·罗克林 谢谢。
Forget everything I told you.
忘记我告诉过你的一切。
Just go out there and be big.
走出去，做大事。
It's my stage.
这是我的舞台。
Laurie Lathem But it's a smaller stage than what you think because we've got a bunch of people sitting on the floor.
Laurie Lathem 但这是一个比你想象的要小的舞台，因为我们有一群人坐在地板上。
Sure, that's better.
当然，这样更好。
Laurie Lathem So you're just going to have to roll with it.
Laurie Lathem 所以你只能顺其自然。
Yeah, you bet.
是的，你打赌。
Laurie Lathem Have a great time.
劳里·莱瑟姆 祝您度过愉快的时光。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Laurie Lathem What you do is so beautiful.
劳里·莱瑟姆（Laurie Lathem）你所做的事情是如此美丽。
Every seat is filled.
每个座位都坐满了。
Grown-ups are sitting on the floor, cross-legged.
大人们盘腿坐在地板上。
In fact, there were people in the parking lot arguing over the last few tickets.
事实上，停车场里还有人在为最后几张票争论不休。
The space where my father's performing is twice as wide as a bowling lane, and there is a chair and an end table with a bottle of Slivovitz on it.
我父亲表演的空间有保龄球道两倍宽，里面有一把椅子和一张茶几，上面放着一瓶斯利沃维茨啤酒。
It isn't until the show started that I realized how big of a risk my father's taking.
直到节目开始，我才意识到父亲冒了多大的风险。
This time, he isn't part of a group.
这一次，他不再是一个团体的成员。
There isn't going to be a girl in a fairy godmother dress babbling about who knows what coming out first so that by comparison, my father seems like the wisest man on the planet.
不会有一个穿着仙女教母裙子的女孩喋喋不休地说谁知道什么先出现，所以相比之下，我的父亲似乎是这个星球上最聪明的人。
It's just him, slowly working his way towards the front of the audience.
只有他，慢慢地走向观众面前。
And suddenly, I notice I have a terrible knot in my stomach.
突然，我发现我的胃里有一个可怕的结。
I sit there on the stairs in the back of the theater.
我坐在剧院后面的楼梯上。
He gets his first laugh, and then another.
他第一次笑，然后又笑了。
And now, I feel so relaxed, I can't even pay attention to what he's saying.
现在，我感觉很放松，我什至无法注意他在说什么。
All I want to do is stare at the faces in the crowd.
我只想盯着人群中的面孔。
Everybody seems to be really enjoying themselves, especially whenever my father mentions anything that has to do with sex.
每个人似乎都玩得很开心，尤其是每当我父亲提到任何与性有关的事情时。
Must've been about noon when Marushka woke me up.
当马鲁什卡叫醒我时，大概已经是中午了。
And she said, "Fred, you think I no beautiful?" And I said, "What the hell you talking about?" And I looked at her.
她说：“弗雷德，你觉得我不漂亮吗？”我说：“你到底在说什么？”我看着她。
I could see she was crying.
我看得出来她在哭。
And she said, "Me, Fred, me.
她说：“我，弗雷德，我。
I a virgin.
我是处女。
I don't want to die virgin.
我不想以处女的身份死去。
Fred, why don't you put your hand on my shishky?
弗雷德，你为什么不把手放在我的什什基上呢？
Fred, why don't you put your hooey in my piska?
弗雷德，你为什么不把你的胡伊放进我的皮斯卡里呢？
Fred, why don't we make fig-fig?"
弗雷德，我们为什么不做无花果呢？”
You'd think that this would be the part that would disturb me.
你可能认为这会是让我感到不安的部分。
But it doesn't.
但事实并非如此。
What I find jarring is whenever he talks about killing people.
每当他谈到杀人时，我都觉得很不舒服。
There's one particular moment when he talks about shooting three German soldiers.
有一个特别的时刻，他谈到射杀三名德国士兵。
He's been ejected from his plane, is wandering behind enemy lines, meets this woman, Marushka, who is helping him make his way to Italy.
他被从飞机上弹射出来，在敌后徘徊，遇到了这个女人，马鲁什卡，她正在帮助他前往意大利。
They come to a little village full of American sympathizers.
他们来到一个充满美国同情者的小村庄。
And the head man came over.
而领头的人也走了过来。
He made a speech, and I kept hearing the word "Amerikansky." And then we all started walking off toward the outskirts of this village.
他发表了演讲，我不断听到“阿美利坚斯基”这个词。然后我们就开始向这个村庄的郊区走去。
There was a little hut there.
那里有一间小小屋。
And Marushka said, "Fred, I know you, Fred.
马鲁什卡说：“弗雷德，我认识你，弗雷德。
Fred, you're not a hard man.
弗雷德，你不是一个铁石心肠的人。
But Fred, if they give you a gun, you must do it, Fred.
但是弗雷德，如果他们给你一把枪，你就必须这么做，弗雷德。
Even if it's against your nature, you must.
即使这违背你的本性，你也必须这么做。
Or they will kill you and me." Well, I didn't like the way that sounded.
否则他们会杀了你和我。”嗯，我不喜欢这听起来。
That gave me the creeps.
这让我感到毛骨悚然。
And we got to this little hut.
我们到达了这个小小屋。
And the head man spoke some more.
领头的人又说了一些话。
And then he yanked on this chain, and from under the hut crawled these three young German boys.
然后他猛拉这条链子，这三个德国小男孩就从小屋下面爬了出来。
They were guys about my age, about 18 or 19 years old.
他们都是和我年龄相仿的人，大约 18 或 19 岁。
And they had these German gray uniforms on.
他们穿着德国灰色制服。
And they were barefoot and had SS insignia on the collar.
他们赤着脚，领子上有党卫军徽章。
And they had a chain around their neck and around their wrists and around their ankles.
他们的脖子上、手腕上和脚踝上都戴着一条链子。
They'd been terribly beaten up, covered with [BLEEP] from top to bottom.
他们被打得很惨，从上到下都被[BLEEP]覆盖。
They looked like miserable dogs.
他们看起来就像可怜的狗。
And then the head man smiled.
然后为首的人笑了。
And I heard the word "Amerikansky." And he handed me the burp gun.
我听到了“Americansky”这个词。他把打嗝枪递给我。
And Marushka said, "Fred, you must do it, Fred.
马鲁什卡说：“弗雷德，你必须这么做，弗雷德。
You must do it." And the villagers start going, "Chata, chata, chata, chata, chata!" Jesus Christ, I didn't want to shoot anybody.
你必须这么做。”村民们开始喊叫：“查塔，查塔，查塔，查塔，查塔！”天啊，我不想开枪打任何人。
And Marushka was hissing, "Fred, do it, do it." And I pulled the trigger.
马鲁什卡嘶嘶地说：“弗雷德，做吧，做吧。”我扣动了扳机。
And the gun went burp!
然后枪就打嗝了！
And I just sawed those three boys in half.
我刚刚把那三个男孩锯成两半。
And the villagers just went wild with excitement.
村民们兴奋得发狂。
And we started walking back toward the village.
然后我们开始走回村庄。
I've always assumed that this story isn't true.
我一直认为这个故事不是真的。
I don't think of my father as this kind of man.
我不认为我的父亲是这样的人。
In fact, when he showed me an early draft, I told him to take it out.
事实上，当他给我看一份早期草稿时，我告诉他把它拿出来。
And at first, he did.
起初，他确实这么做了。
And then he put it back in.
然后他把它放回去。
An actor friend of his named Patrick Flanagan told me that one night after class, my father told him that the story about shooting the three German soldiers is true but that he didn't want me or my sisters or my mother to know because he thought it would upset us too much.
他的一位名叫帕特里克·弗拉纳根的演员朋友告诉我，一天晚上下课后，我父亲告诉他，枪杀三名德国士兵的故事是真的，但他不想让我、我的姐妹们或我的母亲知道，因为他认为这会让我们太难过。
I asked my dad, "What am I supposed to think?"
我问爸爸：“我应该怎么想？”
And I was talking to Patrick Flanagan backstage.
我正在后台和帕特里克·弗拉纳根交谈。
And he said to me, "You know the whole story.
他对我说：“你知道整个故事。
You know what's true and what isn't.
你知道什么是真的，什么不是。
And your dad told me that that part of the story is true, that you actually did do those killings.
你父亲告诉我，故事的那部分是真实的，你确实做了那些杀戮。
Well, the interesting thing is the idea that somebody would want to know, and particularly an actor, would want to know whether it's true or not true.
嗯，有趣的是有人想知道，特别是演员，想知道这是真的还是假的。
I don't even think that's an issue.
我什至不认为这是一个问题。
Again, it's a story, it's a metaphor.
再说一次，这是一个故事，这是一个隐喻。
I don't know, is there a difference in fact and fiction in your mind?
不知道，你心中的事实和虚构有区别吗？
Is there?
有吗？
Yes.
是的。
So who are you telling the true story to, me or Patrick?
那么你要向谁讲述真实的故事，我还是帕特里克？
Dad, come on.
爸爸，加油。
Fred Rochlin No, I haven't thought this through.
Fred Rochlin 不，我还没有想清楚这一点。
You've asked a very good question because other people ask it, too.
你问了一个非常好的问题，因为其他人也问了这个问题。
And I've got to prepare an answer.
我必须准备一个答案。
That's true, but you didn't answer my question.
确实如此，但你没有回答我的问题。
I'm really interested in why-- if, in fact, you told Patrick Flanagan the truth, and me not, why would you do that?
我真的很想知道为什么——事实上，如果你告诉了帕特里克·弗拉纳根真相，而我没有，你为什么要这么做？
I haven't got the vaguest idea what I told Patrick Flanagan.
我对我跟帕特里克·弗拉纳根说的话一无所知。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
But the true story is that the gun was handed to a 13-year-old boy, who killed-- that you did not do those killings.
但真实的故事是，这把枪被交给了一个 13 岁的男孩，他杀了——那些杀戮不是你干的。
That's right.
没错。
That's a true story.
这是一个真实的故事。
To the best of my knowledge, yeah.
据我所知，是的。
To the best of his knowledge?
据他所知？
At this point, I have no idea how to assimilate this information.
此时，我不知道如何吸收这些信息。
Even seeing my dad squirm under my questions is a side of him I've never seen before.
甚至看到我父亲在我的问题下局促不安也是我以前从未见过的他的一面。
We argued about it so much that I started to get worried.
我们为此争论了很多，以至于我开始担心。
What if he's coming clean about something that he did so many years ago?
如果他承认自己多年前做过的事情怎么办？
I asked one of my older sisters if the same thing concerned her.
我问我的一位姐姐是否也有同样的事情。
And she told me that she assumes that all the upsetting parts of the story are made up.
她告诉我，她认为故事中所有令人不安的部分都是编造的。
I don't know which version to believe.
我不知道该相信哪个版本。
My father may have shot those soldiers or he may not have.
我父亲可能射杀了那些士兵，也可能没有射杀。
But one thing is for certain.
但有一件事是肯定的。
When he goes to these classes, he can be whomever he wants.
当他参加这些课程时，他可以成为任何他想成为的人。
And God bless him for that.
愿上帝保佑他。
How wonderful for him that he got the chance.
他能得到这个机会对他来说是多么美好的事情啊。
Goodbye, fellas.
再见，伙计们。
Thanks for coming.
感谢您的光临。
Adios.
再见。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
After the show, I sit backstage with my father.
演出结束后，我和父亲一起坐在后台。
People start streaming in.
人们开始涌入。
Pretty soon, it's like a cocktail party.
很快，这就像一场鸡尾酒会。
And Bob, the engineer who's with me, is looking at these two young women who have burst into the room and are hugging and kissing my father.
和我在一起的工程师鲍勃正在看着这两个冲进房间拥抱和亲吻我父亲的年轻女子。
Bob puts his hand over the microphone and says to me, "Your father knows a lot of babes."
鲍勃把手放在麦克风上，对我说：“你父亲认识很多宝贝。”
The fact that they're babes is a bonus.
她们是宝贝这一事实是一个额外的好处。
I think my dad would be just as excited with any kind of fan.
我想我的父亲会对任何类型的粉丝都感到兴奋。
What's really wonderful is to see that my father is getting a kind of attention that most people don't get at his age-- frankly, that most people don't get at all.
真正美妙的是看到我的父亲得到了大多数人在他这个年纪得不到的关注——坦率地说，大多数人根本得不到。
It's just a huge adventure.
这只是一次巨大的冒险。
God, what fun.
天啊，多有趣啊。
Afterwards, last night, it was just fun.
后来，昨晚，就很有趣了。
You mean hanging out and having all those people come and talk--
你的意思是出去闲逛，让所有这些人过来说话——
Yeah, then going over and having a few drinks, doing the whole post-mortem.
是的，然后过去喝了几杯，进行了整个尸检。
Like, these kids sent me these cards.
就像，这些孩子给我寄了这些卡片。
And I find it very moving.
我觉得这很感人。
Will you read me a card?
你能给我念一张卡片吗？
Fred Rochlin Well, here, you can read it.
Fred Rochlin 嗯，在这里，你可以读到它。
Can you read it for me?
你能为我读一下吗？
Fred Rochlin OK, it says, "Fred, you are such an inspiration to me.
弗雷德·罗克林（Fred Rochlin）好吧，上面写着：“弗雷德，你给了我很大的启发。
Good luck in Louisville." Well, that's very nice.
祝路易斯维尔好运。”嗯，那很好。
And "Fred, once again, you break my heart and put it back together again." Well, you know, not too many people say that to me very often.
“弗雷德，你再一次伤了我的心，但又让我的心重新恢复了原样。”嗯，你知道，没有多少人经常对我这么说。
"You are a source of great inspiration to me and others.
“你是我和其他人巨大灵感的源泉。
The house ain't full for nothing, Fred.
弗雷德，房子里并没有空无一人。
I'm proud to be your friend and collaborator." Well, that's a lot of fun.
我很自豪能成为你的朋友和合作者。”嗯，这很有趣。
You just need to be moved there.
你只需要搬到那里即可。
I didn't know that's what the card said.
我不知道卡上是这么写的。
That's so sweet.
太甜了。
It is.
是的。
And Margy, to have this happen to me at my stage of life-- Being realistic, I assume when have 10 years left, it's sort of a nice way to spend the last 10 years.
玛吉，在我人生的阶段让这种事发生在我身上——现实一点，我认为在还剩 10 年的时候，这是度过过去 10 年的好方法。
When I was growing up, my father kept his leather flight jacket hanging in his closet.
在我成长的过程中，父亲把他的皮飞行夹克挂在衣柜里。
I used to go and stare at it.
我过去常常去看它。
It's really strange to see it on stage when he tells these stories.
当他在舞台上讲述这些故事时，真的很奇怪。
Painted on the back of it are 50 yellow outlined pictographs shaped like bombs with fins with the nose side down.
背面画有50个黄色轮廓的象形文字，形状像炸弹，有鳍，机头朝下。
Two of these are filled with hash marks.
其中两个充满了哈希标记。
These represent the times he was shot down, once near Italy and another time over Yugoslavia.
这些代表了他被击落的次数，一次是在意大利附近，另一次是在南斯拉夫上空。
Here's what happened the second time.
这是第二次发生的情况。
One engine was shot out, and the other engine quit.
一台发动机被击毁，另一台发动机熄火。
So he bailed out over the Adriatic Sea.
于是他在亚得里亚海上空跳伞。
Everyone but he and the pilot drowned.
除了他和飞行员之外，所有人都淹死了。
My father told me that he tread water.
我父亲告诉我他踩水。
And though he's Jewish, he only knew one prayer, the Shema.
尽管他是犹太人，但他只知道一种祈祷，即示玛。
And he kept reciting it over and over again.
而且他还一遍又一遍地背诵着这句话。
And after six hours, he was rescued by a British navy frigate.
六个小时后，他被一艘英国海军护卫舰救起。
He was only 20 years old, and he had three more bombing missions to complete before they sent him home.
他只有 20 岁，在送他回家之前，他还有 3 次轰炸任务要完成。
I know these details because I've heard the story so many times.
我知道这些细节，因为这个故事我听过很多次了。
But there's something different about hearing him tell stories onstage to strangers.
但听他在舞台上向陌生人讲故事有一些不同的感觉。
Like the story about how his squadron was supposed to bomb a railroad junction in the town Hajduboszormeny.
就像他的中队如何轰炸 Hajduboszormeny 镇的一个铁路枢纽的故事一样。
Now, Hajduboszormeny was obviously not a military target.
现在，Hajduboszormeny 显然不是一个军事目标。
It was just a little old Hungarian farming town.
那只是一个古老的匈牙利农业小镇。
British intelligence had just made a mistake.
英国情报部门刚刚犯了一个错误。
But the colonel said, "When in doubt, you always follow orders.
但上校说：“当有疑问时，你总是服从命令。
You can't go wrong that way." And we were at 22,000 feet.
这样你就不会出错。”当时我们已经在 22,000 英尺的高度了。
And he brought us down to 8,000 feet.
他把我们带到了 8,000 英尺的高度。
And at 8,000 feet with a Norden bombsight, you can't miss.
在 8,000 英尺的高度，使用 Norden 炸弹瞄准器，您不会错过。
And we were the first squadron that went in there.
我们是第一个进入那里的中队。
And Harry got on the bomb site.
哈利到达了炸弹现场。
And he dropped those bombs.
他扔下了那些炸弹。
And we just blew the hell out of everything.
我们把一切都搞砸了。
There was nothing left.
什么都没有剩下。
Blew up every building, every street, every light post, everything.
炸毁每栋建筑、每条街道、每根灯柱，一切。
And the next squadron came in.
下一个中队也进来了。
And they dropped their bombs on top of where we had dropped.
他们在我们投下的地方扔下了炸弹。
And then, the next squadron came in.
然后，下一个中队进来了。
And they dropped their bombs on top of where we had dropped.
他们在我们投下的地方扔下了炸弹。
Then the govern squadron came in.
这时，治安中队进来了。
And they dropped their bombs on top of where we had dropped.
他们在我们投下的地方扔下了炸弹。
Look, every plane carries 10,000 pounds of bombs.
你看，每架飞机都携带一万磅炸弹。
10,000 times 28, that's like a quarter million pounds of TNT.
10,000 乘以 28，相当于 25 万磅 TNT。
Divide that by, say, 2,500 people.
比如说，除以 2,500 人。
That's like 100 pounds of TNT for every man, child, and woman in that village.
这相当于该村里的每个男人、孩子和女人都有 100 磅 TNT。
Hajduboszormeny was no more.
哈伊杜博佐梅尼已经不复存在了。
It was gone.
它消失了。
It was wiped off the face of this earth.
它从地球表面消失了。
It was just a pile of Hungarian dust, a hole in the ground.
它只是一堆匈牙利灰尘，地上的一个洞。
When I hear my father telling these stories onstage, I always think the same thing.
当我听到父亲在台上讲这些故事时，我总是有同样的想法。
After filling up so much space in my imagination, how come I never thought about what it was like to carry those terrible memories around inside of you?
在我的想象中填满了这么多空间之后，我怎么从来没有想过那些可怕的记忆在你心里是什么感觉？
We landed.
我们着陆了。
I got debriefed.
我听取了汇报。
I went back to the officers' club, and I was having a brandy.
我回到军官俱乐部，喝了一杯白兰地。
And Captain Bill Connor, the flight surgeon, came in all smiles.
机长比尔·康纳，飞行外科医生，满面笑容地进来了。
And said, "Hey, Rockets!
并说道：“嘿，火箭队！
I just came back from the Carafas'.
我刚从卡拉法斯回来。
And the baby's doing great, and the mother's doing fine.
宝宝很好，妈妈也很好。
And the Carafas are happy as hell.
卡拉法一家幸福极了。
They even asked about you.
他们甚至询问了你的情况。
They wanted to know where was Padrito Frederico.
他们想知道帕德里托·弗雷德里科在哪里。
They made you and me godfathers.
他们让你和我成为教父。
Then he looked at me.
然后他看着我。
He said, "What are you so down in the dumps about?" And I said, "Well, Connor, I'm feeling kind of weird.
他说：“你为什么这么沮丧？”我说：“好吧，康纳，我感觉有点奇怪。
You know how last night you went out and delivered that baby and I kind of helped?
你知道昨晚你出去接生孩子和我是如何帮忙的吗？
And I was proud of that, Connor.
我为此感到自豪，康纳。
And this morning, we went out.
今天早上，我们出去了。
And Connor, I guess we killed 2,500, 3,000 people.
康纳，我猜我们杀了 2,500 到 3,000 人。
And I helped.
我也帮忙了。
Connor, what the hell's going on?
康纳，到底发生了什么事？
Isn't this some kind of insanity?"
这不是某种疯狂吗？”
And Connor looked at me.
康纳看着我。
"Rockets, you want to go nuts, be put in the booby hatch, be Section 8 out of the army?" "No." "Then you listen to me.
“火箭队，你想发疯，被关进诱杀舱，被第八组开除吗？” “不。” “那你听我说。
And you do what I tell you to do because I'm right.
你按照我告诉你的去做，因为我是对的。
First, you follow orders.
首先，你要听从命令。
You do what you've been trained to do.
你做你被训练要做的事情。
Then when you're done, just forget it.
然后当你完成后，就忘记它吧。
Forget it.
算了。
Just forget it.
忘记它吧。
And that drink you're drinking, Rockets, you finish that drink.
你喝的那杯酒，火箭队，你喝完了。
And when you're done, have another and another.
当你完成后，再吃一个又一个。
You do that and you'll be all right."
你这样做了，你就会没事的。”
Well, Connor was right.
嗯，康纳是对的。
I did what he said.
我照他说的做了。
I did my best to forget.
我已经尽力去忘记了。
And I pretended, and I denied, and I sure did my share of drinking.
我假装，我否认，而且我确实喝了我应得的酒。
I grew up watching my father drink and laugh.
我是看着父亲一边喝酒一边笑长大的。
I've seen him stand at the head of a dinner table filled with relatives and friends and raise a glass of wine, and watched tears slide down his face as he cries his way through a toast.
我曾见过他站在满是亲戚和朋友的餐桌前，举起一杯酒，看着他一边举杯一边哭泣，泪水从脸上滑落。
I've seen him drink hundreds of times.
我见过他喝过几百次酒。
At celebrations, at sad occasions, late at night in the kitchen when it was just him and me talking.
在庆祝活动中，在悲伤的场合，在深夜厨房里只有他和我说话的时候。
And I have never thought that when he drinks it's because he's trying to forget something.
我从来没有想过他喝酒是因为他想忘记什么。
I never thought about it until I saw him tell other people.
我从来没有想过这个问题，直到我看到他告诉其他人。
Margy Rochlin in Los Angeles.
玛吉·罗克林在洛杉矶。
Well, coming up, California Governor Pete Wilson in Lycra tights and a superhero mask on a wrestling mat.
好吧，即将到来的是加利福尼亚州州长皮特·威尔逊，他穿着莱卡紧身衣，在摔跤垫上戴着超级英雄面具。
Well, somebody like Governor Wilson, anyway.
好吧，无论如何，像威尔逊州长这样的人。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Leave the Mask On, the stories of those situations where somebody tries to tell you just a little bit more than perhaps you wanted to know at the outset.
今天的节目《戴上面具》讲述了一些情况的故事，其中有人试图告诉你比你一开始想知道的多一点的事情。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Mama, Can You Hear Me?
第二幕 妈妈，你能听到我说话吗？
Well, Dan Savage writes a syndicated sex advice column called "Savage Love." If you've seen it, you know that it's not only more entertaining than most columns of its type.
丹·萨维奇 (Dan Savage) 撰写了一个名为“野蛮之爱”的联合性建议专栏。如果您看过它，您就会知道它不仅比大多数同类专栏更有趣。
It is very, very explicit.
这是非常非常明确的。
More explicit than-- I can't think of another column as explicit.
比——我想不出还有哪个专栏更明确。
So explicit, actually, that I actually have three of Dan's last three columns here.
事实上，如此明确，我实际上在这里拥有丹的最后三篇专栏中的三篇。
And there is not a single question or answer from these three columns that I can quote to you over the radio.
我无法通过广播向你们引用这三个专栏中的任何一个问题或答案。
I can't even give a kind of gloss, a summary of these questions that I can actually get onto public radio today.
我什至无法对这些问题进行某种注释和总结，而我今天实际上可以在公共广播电台上看到这些问题。
In real life, Dan will talk with sex about anybody.
在现实生活中，丹会用性来谈论任何人。
Anybody except for one group of people with whom he prefers to leave the mask on.
除了他喜欢戴上面具的一组人之外的任何人。
A quick warning before we begin this story.
在我们开始这个故事之前，有一个简短的警告。
Although there's no nasty language or graphic sexual moments in the story, Dan does name a few sex acts.
尽管故事中没有肮脏的语言或生动的性爱时刻，但丹确实列举了一些性行为。
Simply says their names and nothing more.
只是说出他们的名字，仅此而已。
I'm not here to talk about sex.
我来这里不是为了谈论性。
I'm here to make a confession, to share with you the secret shame of a sex advice columnist.
我来这里是为了坦白，与你们分享性建议专栏作家的秘密耻辱。
I cannot talk about sex with my family.
我不能和家人谈论性。
Anyone else, anywhere else, any kind of sex.
其他任何人，任何其他地方，任何类型的性行为。
But with family, I become, as my little sister Laura will now tell you, a completely different person.
但正如我的妹妹劳拉现在会告诉你的那样，有了家庭，我就变成了一个完全不同的人。
You get all, "Ooh, you're my little sister.
你得到的都是，“哦，你是我的小妹妹。
I don't want to talk to you about sex.
我不想和你谈论性。
Back off.
退后吧。
Eww, that's gross." You get all little girlish about it.
呃，这太恶心了。”你对此充满了小女孩气。
How can you say that?
你怎么能这么说呢？
Laura Because you do.
劳拉 因为你知道。
You get all, "Ooh." You turn all red.
你得到的都是“哦”。你全都变红了。
And you get all high-pitched voiced.
而且你的声音都是高亢的。
And you're all like, "Ooh."
你们都会说，“哦。”
My parents brought up four kids.
我的父母抚养了四个孩子。
Three boys, one girl.
三个男孩，一个女孩。
Laura is the youngest.
劳拉是最小的。
When I came out to my family, Laura was thrilled.
当我向家人出柜时，劳拉很激动。
She finally had a sister.
她终于有妹妹了。
Now there was someone in the family she could dish about boys with.
现在家里有人可以和她谈论男孩了。
She was having sex with boys.
她正在和男孩发生性关系。
I was having sex with boys.
我和男孩发生性关系。
It made perfect sense to her that the two of us should sit up nights, eating brownies and comparing notes.
对她来说，我们两个人应该彻夜不眠，吃布朗尼蛋糕并交换意见，这是完全有道理的。
I remember one of those early conversations.
我记得其中一次早期谈话。
My sister cornered me on the front porch.
我姐姐把我逼到了前廊。
She wanted some oral sex tips.
她想要一些口交技巧。
When I realized why she had cornered me on the porch that night, I wanted to go right back in the house.
当我意识到那天晚上她为什么把我逼到门廊时，我想立即回到屋里。
But considering how well she'd handled the recent news about my sexuality, it didn't seem fair that I should run in and slam the door on her.
但考虑到她对最近有关我性取向的新闻的处理得有多好，我应该跑进去关上她的门，这似乎不公平。
So though I was dying inside, I shared with Laura the little I knew at that point about oral sex and then got the hell back in the house.
所以，尽管我快要死了，我还是和劳拉分享了我当时所知道的关于口交的一点点，然后就回到了家里。
So of the six of us in the immediate family, if you were to rank everyone for comfort of talking about sex issues, where would I be?
那么，在我们直系亲属的六个人中，如果你要对每个人谈论性问题的舒适度进行排名，我会在哪里？
Would I be--
我会不会——
You'd be at the bottom.
你会处于最底层。
Dan Savage At the bottom?
丹·萨维奇（Dan Savage）在底部吗？
I would?
我会吗？
You'd be at the bottom.
你会处于最底层。
Dan Savage But in the extended family, how would you rank me?
丹·萨维奇 但在这个大家庭中，你会如何评价我呢？
Yeah, like Peggy, Nestor, Amy, Tracy.
是的，就像佩吉、内斯特、艾米、特雷西。
The whole sort of crowd, the extended family.
整个人群，大家庭。
The aunts, the uncles, the cousins.
阿姨、叔叔、表兄弟姐妹。
Yeah.
是的。
Dan Savage I'm not sure where my discomfort came from.
丹·萨维奇（Dan Savage） 我不确定我的不适从何而来。
My parents were open with us about sex.
我的父母对我们对性持开放态度。
They would use any opportunity that came along to initiate an educational conversation with us kids about sex.
他们会利用任何机会与我们孩子进行有关性的教育对话。
But I'm not convinced their openness was entirely sincere.
但我不相信他们的坦诚是完全真诚的。
In the late '70s, moms and dads were under a lot of pressure to be hip.
在 70 年代末，爸爸妈妈们承受着很大的时尚压力。
And talking openly with your teens about sex was very hip.
与十几岁的孩子公开谈论性是非常时髦的。
It's funny how different people often remember shared experiences in vastly different ways.
有趣的是，不同的人常常以截然不同的方式记住共同的经历。
I recall the times my mother and father talked to us about sex basically like this.
我记得我的父母和我们谈论性的时候基本上都是这样的。
They didn't want to talk to us about it.
他们不想和我们谈论这件事。
They didn't like talking to us about it.
他们不喜欢和我们谈论这件事。
They weren't any good at talking about it.
他们不擅长谈论这件事。
But by god, they were going to be hip parents if it killed them.
但上帝啊，如果这能杀了他们，他们就会成为时髦的父母。
But maybe I remember those conversations that way because, in fact, I was the one in agony.
但也许我之所以记得那些谈话，是因为事实上，我就是那个痛苦的人。
My mother remembers those conversations differently.
我母亲对那些谈话的记忆有所不同。
We wanted to talk to you about sex.
我们想和你谈谈性。
Or at least I did.
或者至少我做到了。
I can't speak for your father.
我不能代表你父亲说话。
We thought that we were going to be these great, wonderful, open parents and give you all sorts of information.
我们以为我们会成为这些伟大、美好、开放的父母，并为你们提供各种各样的信息。
And you sensed that we were uncomfortable having the conversation?
你感觉到我们谈话时感到不舒服吗？
Well, sometimes you used to cover your ears and say, "I don't want to talk about that with you."
嗯，有时你会捂住耳朵说：“我不想和你谈论这个。”
I remember one run-from-the-room conversation.
我记得一次从房间里跑出来的谈话。
My brother Eddie came down to dinner wearing a T-shirt with an oral sex innuendo decal ironed onto it.
我哥哥艾迪穿着一件印有口交暗示贴花的 T 恤来吃晚饭。
The four of us kids were snickering.
我们四个小孩子都在窃笑。
And my parents asked us if we really knew what that T-shirt meant.
我的父母问我们是否真的知道那件 T 恤的含义。
Then my father explained to us, in great detail, all about oral sex.
然后我父亲向我们详细解释了所有关于口交的事情。
It was 1978.
那是 1978 年。
I was 13 years old.
那年我13岁。
And from watching Three's Company and Hollywood Squares , I had managed to work out exactly what oral sex was all on my own.
通过观看《三人行》和《好莱坞广场》，我自己成功地弄清楚了什么是口交。
I didn't need my father to explain it to me with a mouthful of shepherd's pie.
我不需要父亲用一口牧羊人馅饼来向我解释。
Then Mom dropped the bomb.
然后妈妈扔下了炸弹。
There was nothing wrong with oral sex, she said, so long as the man and the woman engaging in it were in love.
她说，口交并没有什么问题，只要进行口交的男女双方是相爱的。
Why, she and my father engaged in oral sex.
为什么，她和我父亲进行了口交。
That was all I needed to hear to put me off oral sex for about 15 years.
这就是我所需要听到的一切，让我在大约 15 年里不再口交。
And shepherd's pie.
还有牧羊人馅饼。
Part of my problem with those parent-kid conversations about sex was a too-vivid imagination.
我对亲子关于性的对话的部分问题是想象力过于生动。
When you're talking about sex with someone, it's hard not to form mental pictures of them actually having sex.
当你与某人谈论性时，很难不在脑海中形成他们实际发生性关系的画面。
And no one likes to picture their parents having sex.
没有人喜欢想象他们的父母发生性关系。
When I answer letters in my column, it's different.
当我在专栏中回复信件时，情况有所不同。
I don't know what these people look like.
我不知道这些人长什么样子。
I can picture whoever I want.
我可以想象任何我想要的人。
So unless gender comes into the question in some material way, I picture Matt Damon and Brad Pitt.
因此，除非性别以某种实质性方式成为问题，否则我会想象马特·达蒙和布拉德·皮特。
Together.
一起。
In fact, let's all take a moment, shall we, to enjoy that picture.
事实上，让我们花一点时间来欣赏这张照片吧。
OK, back to the radio show.
好吧，回到广播节目。
Since I started writing a sex column, this thing with the family has gotten worse, especially with my mother.
自从我开始写性专栏以来，与家人的关系变得更糟，尤其是与我的母亲。
During the darkest days of the AIDS crisis, my mother would grill me about my sex life, asking me the most graphic, intense, probing, involved questions.
在艾滋病危机最黑暗的日子里，我母亲会盘问我的性生活，问我最生动、最激烈、最探究、最复杂的问题。
She was absolutely prosecutorial.
她绝对是检察官。
She wanted to know what sorts of risks I was taking, with whom, how often, under what circumstances, how much I'd had to drink, what this boy's intentions toward me were, where he was raised, what his people did, how much lube we were using, what kind of condoms we used.
她想知道我正在冒什么样的风险，和谁一起，多久一次，在什么情况下，我喝了多少，这个男孩对我的意图是什么，他在哪里长大，他的人民做什么，我们使用了多少润滑油，我们使用了哪种避孕套。
I've had conversations with my mother about the theory and practice of anal sex that I don't think many people, living or dead, have had with anyone, least of all their mothers.
我和我母亲就肛交的理论和实践进行过交谈，我认为很多人，无论是活着的还是死了的人，都没有和任何人有过这样的经历，尤其是他们的母亲。
My mother confides in me, too.
我妈妈也对我倾诉。
We talk about her sex life sometimes.
我们有时会谈论她的性生活。
And I've given her advice.
我已经给了她建议。
But that's as much as I can tell you.
但这就是我能告诉你的。
Please, please don't ask me for details.
拜托，请不要向我询问细节。
When you and I talk about sex, it seems to me that it's mostly at your instigation.
当你和我谈论性时，在我看来，这主要是在你的怂恿下。
Do you think we discuss sex more than your average mother and son?
你认为我们比你们一般的母子更多地讨论性吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
I don't talk to very many people about sex.
我不和很多人谈论性。
Do you talk to Laura, my sister, about sex?
你和我的妹妹劳拉谈论性吗？
No. Dan Savage See, but you do talk to me about it.
不，丹·萨维奇（Dan Savage），瞧，但你确实跟我谈过这件事。
And why do you think that is?
你认为这是为什么？
Is it because I work in sex, or is it because I'm gay, or is it because we're exceptionally close?
是因为我从事性工作，还是因为我是同性恋，又或者是因为我们关系异常亲密？
I think we've always had different conversations since you were a little person.
我想自从你还是个小人物以来我们就一直有不同的谈话。
Our conversations always tended to get more intense or to cover more area.
我们的谈话总是趋向于变得更加激烈或者涵盖更多的领域。
The only time my mother gets upset about our sex conversations is when I reproduce them in my column.
我母亲唯一一次对我们的性对话感到不安是当我在专栏中复制这些对话时。
My mom was very upset when my column started running in a weekly paper in our hometown, where she still lives.
当我的专栏开始在我们家乡的周报上刊登时，我妈妈非常沮丧，她仍然住在那里。
That first week it ran there, I mentioned details of what she thought was a private conversation we'd had about sex many years before.
在那儿播出的第一周，我提到了她认为我们多年前关于性的私人谈话的细节。
So now when we talk about sex, my mother takes me on and off the record, like a highly placed Washington source.
所以现在，当我们谈论性时，我母亲会像华盛顿的一位高层消息人士一样，公开或不公开地谈论我。
"Daniel, we're off the record," she'll say before we get into a conversation that I, in all honesty, would rather not be having.
“丹尼尔，我们不公开，”在我们开始谈话之前她会说，老实说，我宁愿不进行这样的谈话。
When the conversation turns back to more mundane things, she'll announce, "Alrighty, we're back on the record." My mom's a regular Deep Throat.
当谈话回到更平常的事情时，她会宣布：“好吧，我们重新开始记录。”我妈妈是个经常深喉的人。
That's a Watergate reference, Mom.
妈妈，这是水门事件的参考资料。
Do you think that when I came out, when I told the family I was gay, I sort of made sex an issue in a way?
你认为当我出柜时，当我告诉家人我是同性恋时，我是否在某种程度上让性成为了一个问题？
Made sexuality and sex an issue, my sex and sexuality, in the family?
让性和性，我的性和性，在家庭中成为一个问题？
So do you think that sort of invited conversations about sex?
那么你认为这种关于性的邀请对话是这样的吗？
Oh, definitely.
哦，当然。
I think your openness brings it out in a lot of people.
我认为你的开放态度让很多人都表现出了这一点。
And you're so open about it, people don't stop to think that it's a subject that you don't want to discuss or there are people that you don't want to discuss it with.
而且你对此如此开放，人们不会停下来认为这是一个你不想讨论的话题，或者有些人你不想与之讨论。
Or that I'm only open about it when I'm getting paid.
或者说我只有在拿到报酬时才会公开此事。
So I'm kind of like a prostitute.
所以我有点像妓女。
I don't know if I'd say that.
我不知道我是否会这么说。
Dan Savage I would hope that you wouldn't.
丹·萨维奇 我希望你不会。
Good.
好的。
Well, I won't.
好吧，我不会。
Your private persona is very different than your public persona in many areas of your life.
在生活的许多方面，你的私人形象与你的公众形象有很大不同。
Don't ruin me here, Ma.
别在这里毁了我，妈妈。
Don't let the cat out of the bag.
不要泄露秘密。
I've got a sweet gig going.
我有一场甜蜜的演出。
I don't want it ruined by this interview.
我不想因为这次采访而毁掉它。
What's it worth?
它有什么价值？
No. It's not as raw and crude and uncaring as you sometimes come across in print.
不，它并不像你有时在印刷品中看到的那样原始、粗鲁和漠不关心。
Mom, I'm hurt.
妈妈，我受伤了。
Judy Savage There, I told on you.
朱迪·萨维奇 那里，我告发了你。
Here's the worst thing of all.
这是最糟糕的事情。
Since it's common knowledge now that I'm uncomfortable talking about sex with my family, it's become a game, the best way to tease me when I'm home for a visit.
因为现在众所周知，我不愿意与家人谈论性，所以它变成了一种游戏，是我回家探望时取笑我的最好方式。
At a wedding last month, word spread through my immediate and extended family that I had interviewed my mom and my sister for this radio show about how uncomfortable I am talking with my family about sex.
在上个月的一场婚礼上，消息传遍了我的直系亲属和大家庭，说我在这个广播节目中采访了我的妈妈和姐姐，说我与家人谈论性话题是多么不舒服。
People thought that was pretty funny, considering what I do for a living.
考虑到我的谋生方式，人们认为这很有趣。
Sensing blood in the water, they came after me.
他们感觉到水中有血，就追赶我。
Everybody had a sex question for me that day.
那天每个人都向我提出了性方面的问题。
Aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, great aunts, siblings, the happy couple.
阿姨，叔叔，侄女，侄子，曾阿姨，兄弟姐妹，幸福的一对。
My aunt wouldn't let me leave her table until I told her what fisting was.
我阿姨不让我离开她的桌子，除非我告诉她什么是拳交。
My brother told me all about his last one-nighter.
我哥哥告诉了我他最后一晚的一切。
And like some reoccurring nightmare, a female cousin, the same age as my sister was that night on the porch cornered me at the bar and asked for oral sex pointers.
就像一场反复出现的噩梦一样，那天晚上，一位与我姐姐同龄的表妹在门廊上把我逼到了酒吧，并要求我提供口交指导。
By the time my 17-year-old cousin, Chris, insisted on showing me his new nipple rings, I was in hell.
当我 17 岁的表弟克里斯坚持向我展示他的新乳环时，我已经陷入了地狱。
When I complained to my mother, she told me to stop whining.
当我向妈妈抱怨时，她告诉我不要再抱怨了。
Then she asked me a sex question herself.
然后她自己问了我一个性问题。
I'd tell you what her question was, but Mom took me off the record.
我本想告诉你她的问题是什么，但妈妈把我的记录取消了。
Dan Savage in Seattle.
西雅图的丹·萨维奇。
[MUSIC - "WHAT'S BEHIND THE MASK" BY THE CRAMPS]
[音乐-抽筋时的“面具背后是什么”]
Act Three, The Unmasking.
第三幕，揭开面纱。
Well, now the story of masks that are not metaphorical, of guys who wear Lycra masks and brightly colored capes and wrestle for a living in Mexican wrestling matches known as lucha libre, which roughly translates to "free fight." RJ Smith tells the story.
好吧，现在的面具的故事不是隐喻的，那些戴着莱卡面具、穿着色彩鲜艳的斗篷、在墨西哥摔跤比赛中摔跤谋生的故事，被称为“lucha libre”，大致翻译为“自由搏击”。 RJ 史密斯讲述了这个故事。
Something about a mask makes a man brazen.
面具让一个人变得厚颜无耻。
That's the thing Atomic Blue taught me.
这就是原子蓝教给我的东西。
Atomic Blue was the first Mexican wrestler I met.
原子蓝是我遇到的第一位墨西哥摔跤手。
Picture a man in a skull-hugging blue mask, an atom drawn across the forehead, not to mention his Matt Helm black turtleneck, black jeans, tweed jacket, and really fine leather shoes.
想象一下一个戴着骷髅蓝色面具的男人，额头上画着一个原子，更不用说他的马特·赫尔姆黑色高领毛衣、黑色牛仔裤、花呢夹克和非常精致的皮鞋。
If Atomic Blue had a code ring, he'd be encrypting.
如果原子蓝有密码环，他就会加密。
If he had a martini, he'd be imbibing.
如果他有马提尼酒，他就会喝下去。
He's bad.
他很糟糕。
It's Atomic Blue who taught me that Mexican wrestling is not just a sport.
原子蓝告诉我墨西哥摔跤不仅仅是一项运动。
Lucha libre is an art form, a tradition, a battle of good versus evil.
自由摔跤是一种艺术形式、一种传统、一场善恶之战。
Lucha libre, Atomic Blue said, is religion.
原子蓝说，自由摔跤就是宗教。
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Rj Smith The greatest of all wrestling heroes was El Santo, "The Saint," who not only fought in the ring, but on the screen.
Rj Smith 最伟大的摔跤英雄是 El Santo，“圣人”，他不仅在擂台上战斗，而且在银幕上战斗。
From the '40s down to the present, dozens of wrestling stars have played in hundreds of incredibly strange movies, wrapping their limbs around plot devices pried from horror, crime, and science fiction genres.
从 40 年代至今，数十位摔跤明星出演了数百部令人难以置信的奇怪电影，他们的四肢围绕着从恐怖、犯罪和科幻小说类型中撬来的情节装置。
Santo might easily break up a spy ring, pitch woo at a backseat full of chicas, and defeat martians, all in the same picture.
桑托可能会轻松地瓦解一个间谍团伙，向满是女孩的后座求爱，并击败火星人，所有这些都在同一张照片中。
Santo did everything without removing his disguise.
城主所做的一切都没有卸下他的伪装。
Even when he directed his pictures, even when he was buried in 1984, Mexico's saint always kept his mask on.
即使在他执导影片时，即使在 1984 年被埋葬时，这位墨西哥圣人始终戴着面具。
We're in a parking lot behind an Anaheim swap meet.
我们在阿纳海姆互换大会后面的停车场。
Every weekend, they pull a plastic tarp off a regulation ring, set up metal bleachers.
每个周末，他们都会从调节环上拉下塑料防水布，搭建金属看台。
It's $10 for adults, who bring plenty of kids.
带很多孩子的成人票价为 10 美元。
About 50 fans surround the ring this afternoon.
今天下午大约有 50 名粉丝围在擂台周围。
Shooting Star wears a black mask.
流星戴着黑色面具。
Orange bolts crease his temples.
橙色的闪电使他的太阳穴皱了起来。
In lucha libre, there are good guys, known as "tecnicos," and bad guys, "rudos." Guess which one Shooting Star is.
在自由摔跤中，有好人，被称为“tecnicos”，也有坏人，被称为“rudos”。猜猜哪一颗流星是。
USA!
美国！
USA!
美国！
Audience Mexico!
墨西哥观众！
Mexico!
墨西哥！
Mexico!
墨西哥！
Every time he yells, "USA," fans scream back, "Mexico!" Shooting Star preens before the hostile crowd.
每当他大喊“美国”时，粉丝们就会尖叫着回应“墨西哥！”流星在敌对人群面前炫耀。
He issues challenges to his opponent, to the fans, and, it seems, maybe even to God.
他向对手、球迷、甚至上帝发起挑战。
It's getting ugly.
越来越丑了
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Shooting Star I didn't quite get that, did you?
流星 我不太明白，是吗？
I don't under-- English, maybe?
我不懂英语，也许吧？
Is English the country--
是英语国家吗——
In Spanish, Shooting Star calls the hecklers "dirty wetbacks," asks if they're citizens of the US.
流星用西班牙语称这些质问者为“肮脏的混蛋”，并询问他们是否是美国公民。
It seems like everything in Mexican culture, people's worries and fears, plays out in the ring.
墨西哥文化中的一切，人们的担忧和恐惧，似乎都在拳击场上演。
So it's no surprise that there's a wrestler who's the equivalent of a masked Governor Pete Wilson playing the bad guy, taunting the immigrants in the crowd.
因此，毫不奇怪，有一个摔跤手相当于蒙面州长皮特·威尔逊扮演坏人，嘲笑人群中的移民。
What happens in Mexican life happens again in the ring.
墨西哥生活中发生的事情在拳击场上再次发生。
No one's talking to you, so you just keep your mouth shut.
没有人跟你说话，所以你只能闭嘴。
A couple years ago, when reports of a blood-sucking creature feasting on farm animals first shocked Mexico, a new wrestling star called The Goat Sucker suddenly appeared.
几年前，当有关吸血生物以农场动物为食的报道首次震惊墨西哥时，一位名叫“吸山羊者”的新摔跤明星突然出现。
Other heroes include wrestling priests and social workers.
其他英雄包括摔跤牧师和社会工作者。
In today's match, one of the luchadores was named El Cholo, a wrestler dressed as a gang banger in saggy pants and colors, flashing gang signs.
在今天的比赛中，一名摔跤手名叫埃尔·乔洛（El Cholo），他是一名摔跤手，穿着松垮的裤子和颜色，打扮成帮派成员，身上闪着帮派标志。
The luchadore reaches back to prehistoric mass religious rituals of American Indians and echoes to this moment.
摔跤手可以追溯到美洲印第安人史前的大规模宗教仪式，并与此时此刻相呼应。
Many have pointed out how the suave, pipe-smoking, ski-masked, sub-commander Marcos, leader of the Zapatista rebels in northern Mexico, calculatedly evokes the image of El Santo.
许多人指出，墨西哥北部萨帕塔叛军领导人、文雅、抽烟斗、戴着滑雪面具的副指挥官马科斯是如何刻意地让人想起埃尔桑托的形象。
It's as if Hulk Hogan somehow carried within his form overtones of Daniel Boone and Martin Luther King.
就好像绿巨人霍根在他的造型中以某种方式带有丹尼尔·布恩和马丁·路德·金的色彩。
This is the power of the mask.
这就是面具的力量。
It makes superheroes out of die cutters, mechanics, gardeners.
它使模切工、机械师、园丁成为超级英雄。
In Anaheim, I even met a wrestler who was a chiropractic student.
在阿纳海姆，我什至遇到了一位摔跤手，他是脊椎按摩疗法的学生。
In the ring, a character named El Genie wears harem pants and performs a move he calls "the magic lamp." During the week, the tall, beefy man with a black pony tail is a car upholsterer.
在擂台上，一个名叫 El Genie 的角色穿着哈伦裤，表演了一个他称之为“神灯”的动作。平日里，这个高大、健壮、留着黑色马尾辫的男人是一名汽车装潢师。
When I first started doing this, it was hard to get back to doing what I did, to be in upholstery.
当我第一次开始这样做时，很难回到我所做的事情，即在室内装饰中。
Because I would miss being out there, being the superstar.
因为我会想念在那里，成为超级巨星。
I'd miss it.
我会想念它的。
But in our culture, in the Mexican culture, you get a lot of respect.
但在我们的文化中，在墨西哥文化中，你会得到很多尊重。
For example, every time I go to Mexico and I go out-- let's say I go to a dance or something-- I get special treatment.
例如，每次我去墨西哥出去——比方说我去参加舞会或其他什么活动——我都会受到特殊待遇。
They give me a table, and they treat me to drinks.
他们给了我一张桌子，并请我喝酒。
And it's kind of funny because that's how people are.
这有点有趣，因为人就是这样的。
As soon as you put the mask on, you feel like a total different person.
当你戴上面具的那一刻，你感觉自己就像变了一个人。
If you're a "heel," which is a bad guy, all of a sudden, you feel this urge to hurt, to inflict pain.
如果你是一个“高跟鞋”，也就是一个坏人，你会突然感到想要伤害、想要造成痛苦。
And if you're a "face," a good guy, you feel like you've got to go and save the world.
如果你是一个“面孔”，一个好人，你会觉得你必须去拯救世界。
It's funny, and it happens.
这很有趣，而且确实发生了。
When someone takes your mask off in the ring, and they just take it off, it's like a humiliation.
当有人在擂台上摘下你的面具，而他们只是摘下它时，这就像一种耻辱。
You get humiliated when someone takes your mask off.
当有人摘下你的面具时，你会感到羞辱。
Whoever loses that match has to take off their mask and never wrestle with it again.
无论谁输掉了那场比赛，都必须摘下面具，永远不再与它摔跤。
It happened to me, yeah.
这发生在我身上，是的。
I went against one of the top wrestlers in Mexico.
我与墨西哥一位顶级摔跤手进行了比赛。
And I lost it in the Mexicali against Fishman.
我在墨西卡利对阵菲什曼的比赛中输掉了比赛。
His name was Fishman.
他的名字叫菲什曼。
And he was my idol as I was growing up.
他是我成长过程中的偶像。
But it came to a head.
但事情到了紧要关头。
We had a rivalry that came to a head.
我们的竞争已经到了紧要关头。
And we bet our masks, and he got the better part.
我们用面具打赌，他得到了更好的部分。
And that's the biggest humiliation you can receive in the ring, losing your mask.
丢掉面具是你在擂台上能受到的最大羞辱。
I saw it once, and I'll never forget.
我见过一次，我永远不会忘记。
It happened last spring.
事情发生在去年春天。
And for weeks after, I had dreams of masked men, wrestlers, hockey goalies, the guys in KISS.
几周后，我梦见了蒙面男子、摔跤手、曲棍球守门员以及《KISS》中的家伙。
It was the last match of the night, Bulldog Rivera versus Shamu Junior.
这是当晚的最后一场比赛，Bulldog Rivera 对阵 Shamu Junior。
Shamu was a pudgy tecnico.
Shamu 是个矮胖的技术人员。
Nobody had to wonder how he got the name Shamu, no wonder about the whale appliques decorating his Aqua Velva blue mask.
没人会好奇他的 Shamu 这个名字是怎么来的，也难怪他的 Aqua Velva 蓝色面具上装饰着鲸鱼贴花。
The fight was even for a while.
战斗甚至持续了一段时间。
But then Bulldog climbs the ropes, leaps at Shamu Junior's torso, and knocks him to his knees.
但随后斗牛犬爬上绳子，跳向小沙姆的躯干，把他打倒在地。
Shamu Junior's in a fog.
小沙姆陷入了迷雾。
And Bulldog smoothly reaches back for the laces binding his mask.
斗牛犬顺利地向后伸手去拿绑住他面具的鞋带。
Oh, god.
哦，上帝。
Everything was going through my-- I thought I would never do it again, I would never wrestle again, that people were just going to forget me right away because I had lost.
一切都在经历我的——我以为我再也不会这样做了，我再也不会摔跤了，人们很快就会忘记我，因为我输了。
And I wasn't going to get over it.
我并不打算克服它。
And it felt-- I cried on top of the ring.
我感觉——我在擂台上哭了。
I cried when I lost my mask.
当我失去面具时我哭了。
It was something-- god, it's hard to describe.
这是某种东西——天啊，这很难描述。
But it was a feeling of-- I felt alone.
但这是一种我感到孤独的感觉。
I felt so alone that day.
那天我感到很孤独。
But that night, one of my sons was there.
但那天晚上，我的一个儿子在那里。
And he came up to the ring, and he gave me a hug.
他走到擂台前，拥抱了我。
And it felt good.
感觉很好。
It felt a lot better.
感觉好多了。
This is his words.
这是他的话。
He said, "You know, Dad, it's just a mask.
他说：“爸爸，你知道，这只是一个面具。
You know?"
你知道吗？”
The unmasking.
揭开面纱。
It's the most sacramental moment.
这是最神圣的时刻。
And over the next few minutes, Bulldog returns to the act at will, almost tenderly unlacing as Shamu Junior futilely resists.
在接下来的几分钟里，斗牛犬随意地恢复了表演，在小沙姆徒劳的抵抗下，斗牛犬几乎温柔地解开了鞋带。
His head cradled in Bulldog's lap, Shamu Junior pleads with the ref.
小沙姆将头枕在斗牛犬的腿上，向裁判恳求。
But then, Bulldog sends the ref sprawling with a kick.
但随后，斗牛犬一脚将裁判踢倒在地。
There is no hope now.
现在没有希望了。
Armed security men are restraining a lady in her 40s with a dye job.
武装保安人员正在拘束一名 40 多岁的正在染色的女士。
All around, there's a call for blood.
四周，都在呼唤着鲜血。
In an act of lyric defiance, Shamu Junior undoes the rest of his own laces and flings his mask at his opponent.
在一种抒情的反抗行为中，小沙穆解开了自己剩余的鞋带，并向对手扔了面具。
He is utterly humiliated.
他彻底被羞辱了。
Losing your mask is like losing your ego, manhood, superpowers, and, since fans typically turn on you, your opportunity to make cash off the books.
失去你的面具就像失去你的自我、男子气概、超能力，而且，因为粉丝通常会攻击你，所以你也失去了从账面上赚钱的机会。
He buries his face in his hands, fighting off Bulldog's probing fingers.
他把脸埋在手里，抵挡着斗牛犬探寻的手指。
Finally, Bulldog pries away Shamu's hands, and we see his face.
最后，斗牛犬撬开沙穆的手，我们看到了他的脸。
Degraded without the mask, he's just a guy, a buzz cut of dark hair, short on the sides.
没有面具，他只是一个普通人，一头乌黑的短发，两边很短。
It's the day before Easter.
这是复活节前一天。
Christ may have risen, but Shamu Junior is taking a fall.
基督可能已经复活了，但小沙姆却在跌倒。
RJ Smith is a senior writer for Spin magazine.
RJ Smith 是《Spin》杂志的资深撰稿人。
He had help in the field from Mandalit del Barco.
他在现场得到了 Mandalit del Barco 的帮助。
Well, our program was introduced today by Alix Spiegel and myself with Nancy Updike and Julie Snyder.
嗯，今天我们的节目是由阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel）和我本人以及南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）和朱莉·斯奈德（Julie Snyder）介绍的。
Senior editor, Paul Tough.
高级编辑，保罗·托夫。
Contributing editors, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Consligliere Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Consligliere Sarah Vowell。
Production help from Rachel Day, Jorge Just, Todd Bachmann, and Sylvia Lemus.
Rachel Day、Jorge Just、Todd Bachmann 和 Sylvia Lemus 为制作提供帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] If you'd like to buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[鸣谢] 如果您想购买本节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电芝加哥的我们，电话：312-832-3380。
Or you know you can listen to most of our program for free at our website www.thisamericanlife.org.
或者您知道您可以在我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org 免费收听我们的大部分节目。
Thanks to Elizabeth Meister, who runs the site.
感谢该网站的运营者伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister)。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who envisions the future of our program this way--
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责，他对我们项目的未来是这样设想的——
I picture Matt Damon and Brad Pitt.
我想象马特·达蒙和布拉德·皮特。
Together.
一起。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。