90: Telephone - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #90 | October 18, 2002 90: Telephone Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 90 集 | 2002 年 10 月 18 日 90：电话 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass I had the strangest experience last night.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 昨晚我经历了最奇怪的经历。
I have these tapes, recorded on my answering machine 10 years ago.
我有这些磁带，是 10 年前在我的答录机上录制的。
Tapes that I had not heard in a decade until last night.
直到昨晚我才十年没听过这些磁带。
And I don't think I can play these tapes for you.
我想我不能给你播放这些磁带。
I don't think that the people on them would give the permission.
我不认为他们的人会给予许可。
On one tape, there's a brief conversation between me and this woman who I lived with for seven years, accidentally recorded by the answering machine just as we were splitting up.
在一盘磁带上，有我和这位和我住了七年的女人之间的简短对话，就在我们分手时，电话答录机意外地录下了这段对话。
And on this tape, she's calling me from the street to say that she's going to a movie with a friend.
在这盘磁带上，她在街上打电话给我，说她要和朋友去看电影。
And I tell her I'd like to come along.
我告诉她我想一起去。
She's Gotta Have It is the movie that they're seeing.
She's Gotta Have 这是他们正在看的电影。
And she indicates no, that I'm not welcome.
她表示不，我不受欢迎。
And then I tell her, "Well, I guess maybe I really do have too much work to do and some laundry that I have to get done." And later in the conversation, she asks if I'm going to be up late, and I say no. And she says, "Well, I thought you said you had all this work to do," like she's catching me in a lie.
然后我告诉她，“好吧，我想也许我真的有太多的工作要做，还有一些衣服需要洗。”后来在谈话中，她问我是否要迟到，我说不。她说，“好吧，我以为你说过你有这么多工作要做”，就像她在说谎一样。
I mean, she is.
我的意思是，她是。
She is catching me in a lie.
她发现我在撒谎。
But you know, a lie that I kind of made at her bidding.
但你知道，这是我按照她的吩咐编造的谎言。
And then she asked me if I'm absolutely sure that I'm going to get her laundry done that night.
然后她问我是否绝对确定那天晚上我会帮她洗衣服。
And I tell her I'm sure.
我告诉她我确定。
It was hard to listen to.
很难听。
I can hear myself being so scared of her in this tape.
我可以从这盘磁带中听到自己非常害怕她。
And in this same conversation, she talks about this guy who, just a few weeks later, she got involved with, her next serious relationship after me.
在同一次谈话中，她谈到了这个人，仅仅几周后，她就开始了继我之后的下一个认真的恋爱关系。
And I talk about this woman who I was just about to start seeing in this serious way, after her.
我谈到了这个女人，我正要在她之后开始以这种严肃的方式见到她。
And that part of the conversation is very awkward, very awkward.
那部分谈话非常尴尬，非常尴尬。
And before I heard this tape, I could not have remembered much about that summer, that summer where we were splitting up in 1988 after seven years.
在我听这盘磁带之前，我不太记得那个夏天，那个夏天我们在七年后于 1988 年分手。
But hearing the tape, it all came back.
但听到录音带，一切又回来了。
Where we lived, what was in the apartment, what we used to wear, how we talked to each other, and how I felt all the time when we were together, this way that I don't feel anymore.
我们住在哪里，公寓里有什么，我们以前穿什么，我们如何交谈，以及我们在一起时我一直以来的感受，现在我不再有这种感觉了。
And it messed me up.
这让我很困惑。
And it wasn't like looking at photos.
这不像看照片。
Pictures are posed.
图片已摆好。
Pictures are these tiny little-- they're tiny.
图片很小——它们很小。
You can hold them in your hand.
您可以将它们握在手中。
They're 3-by-5.
它们是 3×5 的。
You can crush a picture.
你可以粉碎一张照片。
This was not posed.
这不是摆出来的。
And it was not small.
而且它的规模还不小。
And part of that, I think, is just the power of recordings.
我认为，其中一部分就是录音的力量。
And part of it was the fact that we were on the phone.
部分原因是我们正在打电话。
There is something about being on the telephone.
打电话是有一些事情的。
It's just so intimate.
简直就是太亲密了。
Talking to a person on the phone, you are right there.
通过电话与某人交谈，您就在那里。
You are so close.
你是如此接近。
It's like you're whispering in each other's ears.
就像你们在彼此耳边窃窃私语。
There are these tapes of Lyndon Johnson on the telephone in this audio book called Taking Charge by historian Michael Beschloss.
历史学家迈克尔·贝施洛斯 (Michael Beschloss) 所著的《掌控一切》有声读物中收录了林登·约翰逊 (Lyndon Johnson) 的电话录音。
And Beschloss makes the argument that without these recordings of Lyndon Johnson on the telephone, an important part of Johnson would be completely lost to history.
贝施洛斯认为，如果没有林登·约翰逊的这些电话录音，约翰逊的一个重要部分将完全消失在历史之中。
These tapes are so raw.
这些磁带太原始了。
We hear him operating on people in this way that is so-- Beschloss makes the argument that it rarely comes through in transcripts of meetings or public events, him just trying to charm people and flatter them and play on their weaknesses and strong-arm them.
我们听到他以这种方式对待人们，贝施洛斯辩称，这种方式很少出现在会议或公共活动的记录中，他只是试图迷惑人们，奉承他们，利用他们的弱点并强硬地对待他们。
And he's more honest on the phone than he was in public.
他在电话里比在公开场合更诚实。
In public, Johnson said that he believed the Warren Commission report.
约翰逊在公开场合表示，他相信沃伦委员会的报告。
On the telephone, he admitted he didn't believe in it.
在电话中，他承认他不相信这一点。
He didn't believe that a lone assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, acted alone killing JFK.
他不相信李·哈维·奥斯瓦尔德是一个孤独的刺客，独自刺杀了肯尼迪。
In public, Johnson supported the Vietnam War.
在公开场合，约翰逊支持越南战争。
On the telephone, he admitted his doubts.
在电话中，他承认了自己的疑虑。
I'll tell you, the more I just stayed awake last night thinking about this thing, the more I think of it, I don't know what in the hell-- It looks like, to me, we're getting into another Korea.
我告诉你，昨晚我越是彻夜不眠地思考这件事，我越想它，我不知道到底是什么——在我看来，我们正在进入另一个韩国。
And it just worries the hell out of me.
这让我非常担心。
I don't see what we can ever hope to get out of there with once we're committed.
我不知道一旦我们做出承诺，我们还能希望得到什么。
He's talking to National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy.
他正在与国家安全顾问麦克乔治·邦迪交谈。
I don't think it's worth fighting for.
我认为不值得为之奋斗。
And I don't think we can get out.
我认为我们无法出去。
And it's just the biggest damn mess--
这只是最大的混乱——
It is.
是的。
It's an awful mess.
真是一团糟。
Lyndon Johnson I look at this sergeant of mine this morning.
林登·约翰逊：今天早上我看着我的这位中士。
He's got six little old kids over there.
他在那里有六个小孩。
And he's getting out my things and bringing me in my night reading and all that kind of stuff.
他会拿出我的东西，带我去看夜读之类的东西。
And I just thought about ordering all those kids in there.
我只是想把所有这些孩子都放进去。
And what in the hell am I ordering him out there for?
我到底为什么命令他出去？
[INTERPOSING VOICES] What the hell is Vietnam worth to me?
[插话] 越南对我来说到底值多少钱？
What is Laos worth to me?
老挝对我来说有什么价值？
What is it worth to this country?
对这个国家来说有什么价值？
Now, of course, if you start running the communists, they may just chase you right into your own kitchen.
当然，现在如果你开始管理共产党，他们可能会把你直接追到你自己的厨房里。
Yep, that's the trouble.
是的，这就是麻烦所在。
And that is what the rest of that half of the world is going to think if this thing comes apart on us.
如果这件事在我们身上分崩离析，那么这就是世界其他地区的想法。
That's the dilemma.
这就是困境。
That's exactly the dilemma.
这正是困境所在。
But everybody I talk to that's got any sense in there, they just says, "Oh, my god, please [UNINTELLIGIBLE]" But it's damned easy to get in a war, but it's going to be awfully hard to ever extricate yourself if you get in.
但与我交谈过的每个人都是有道理的，他们只是说，“哦，我的上帝，拜托[无法理解]”但是卷入战争是非常容易的，但如果你卷入其中，你将很难自拔。
It's very easy.
这很容易。
I'm very sensitive to the fact that people who are having trouble with--
我对以下事实非常敏感：那些遇到麻烦的人——
On the telephone, we are who we truly are, some of the time, anyway.
无论如何，在电话中，有时我们就是真实的自己。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台，这是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, telephone stories, what we reveal about ourselves on the phone that we do not reveal any other way.
今天的节目，电话故事，我们在电话中透露的关于我们自己的信息，我们不会以任何其他方式透露。
Act One, When the Wall Came Tumbling Down, the story of a teenager, illegal drug use, lying, stealing, and a kid's life completely changed when he heard how he sounded on the phone.
第一幕《当墙倒塌时》讲述了一个青少年的故事，非法吸毒、撒谎、偷窃，以及当一个孩子听到他在电话里的声音时，他的生活彻底改变了。
Act Two, When Your Telephone is Your Medium.
第二幕，当你的电话是你的媒介时。
Sure, you can try to get your pop songs onto records, onto the radio, onto MTV.
当然，您可以尝试将流行歌曲录制到唱片、广播或 MTV 中。
But what if your medium of choice is the telephone?
但是，如果您选择的媒介是电话怎么办？
We offer a case example, the band They Might Be Giants.
我们提供一个案例，“他们可能是巨人”乐队。
Act Three, Telephone as History, moments from a normal human life saved on answering machine.
第三幕，电话作为历史，电话答录机保存了正常人生活的瞬间。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
Let's forget telephone numbers for a moment, and let's start with a zip code, 90210.
让我们暂时忘记电话号码，让我们从邮政编码 90210 开始。
That's where this story takes place, literally.
从字面上看，这就是这个故事发生的地方。
Joshua was a student at Beverly Hills High School.
约书亚是比佛利山庄高中的学生。
Kids there had a lot of money, did a lot of drugs.
那里的孩子们有很多钱，吸毒很多。
And he started doing them, too, in a pretty serious way.
他也开始以一种非常严肃的方式做这些事情。
I failed English.
我英语不及格。
I failed PE, even, which is difficult to do, unless you're running off getting stoned whenever you're supposed to be running around the track.
我什至没有通过体育考试，这很难做到，除非每当你应该在跑道上跑步时，你都会被扔石头。
And I just did whatever I wanted to do, whenever I wanted to do it.
我只是做任何我想做的事，无论什么时候我想做。
I stole money from my parents kind of regularly to finance my marijuana habit.
我经常从父母那里偷钱来资助我的大麻习惯。
I did break into my parents' tenants', basically, house a few times, mostly to steal drugs, not money.
我确实曾多次闯入我父母的房客的房子，主要是为了偷毒品，而不是钱。
But that was the only stealing that I did.
但这是我唯一一次偷窃。
I never actually stole anything except for drugs and money.
除了毒品和钱之外，我实际上从未偷过任何东西。
And the money, I only stole from my parents.
而这些钱，我只是从我父母那里偷来的。
Well, I noticed my dad started to punish me for things that I hadn't done, or at least things that he couldn't have possibly known that I had done.
好吧，我注意到我的父亲开始因为我没有做过的事情而惩罚我，或者至少是他不可能知道我做过的事情。
And I would have a great weekend planned.
我会计划一个愉快的周末。
For instance, we were going to go out and do whatever sorts of craziness would come up.
例如，我们要出去做任何可能发生的疯狂事情。
Maybe we'll go take some LSD or something like that, or mushrooms.
也许我们会去吃一些LSD或类似的东西，或者蘑菇。
And my dad would ground me the day before for no particular reason.
前一天，我父亲会无缘无故地让我停飞。
And it was very strange.
这很奇怪。
The timing was uncanny.
时机出乎意料。
And one day, he was driving me down to school, as he did every morning.
有一天，他开车送我去学校，就像他每天早上所做的那样。
And on the way to school, he told me that the administration of Beverly had contacted him and that they had narcs in the school that were posing as students.
在去学校的路上，他告诉我贝弗利的管理部门已经联系了他，学校里有缉毒人员冒充学生。
And they were going to run a sweep of the school and basically bust everyone who was involved in this.
他们要对学校进行一次扫荡，基本上抓捕所有参与此事的人。
So he told me that the administration had contacted him because they knew that I was involved in this whole faction of bad eggs.
所以他告诉我，政府已经联系了他，因为他们知道我参与了整个坏蛋派系。
And they also knew that I was not a dealer.
他们也知道我不是经销商。
Basically, they were calling him to warn him to basically give me a chance to get out of the bust.
基本上，他们打电话给他是为了警告他给我一个摆脱困境的机会。
So he told me I'd better get it together because it's going to happen very soon.
所以他告诉我我最好把它放在一起，因为它很快就会发生。
And then, in the same conversation, he started naming all of the names of the kids that were involved.
然后，在同一次谈话中，他开始说出所有参与其中的孩子的名字。
And they were names that there was no way he could know.
这些名字他根本不可能知道。
And so the story was very credible the way it was laid out.
所以这个故事的叙述方式非常可信。
And I believed it 100%.
我百分百相信。
And I went to school that day, I remember, and of course, I told all of my friends that there was going to be this major bust happening at Beverly Hills High School very soon.
我记得那天我去上学了，当然，我告诉我所有的朋友，比佛利山高中很快就会发生这次重大事件。
And so everybody better quickly go undercover.
所以大家最好赶紧去卧底。
And people became much more careful.
人们变得更加小心。
About a month later, I was in the backyard.
大约一个月后，我到了后院。
And there had been a windstorm the night before, a really big wind.
前一天晚上刮了一场暴风雨，风很大。
And a panel on the side of the house had come off.
房子一侧的一块面板脱落了。
And I was in the backyard with my friend.
我和我的朋友在后院。
And we were smoking a joint like we always did.
我们像往常一样抽着大麻烟。
Every day after school, we would come home and smoke a joint.
每天放学后，我们都会回家抽烟。
And my friend noticed this panel down.
我的朋友注意到这个面板被放下了。
I'll never forget this one, actually.
事实上，我永远不会忘记这个。
He said, "Dude, what is this?
他说：“兄弟，这是什么？
Come here, dude.
来这里，伙计。
And I'm standing on the other side of the backyard, smoking a joint, looking at the trees.
我站在后院的另一边，抽着一根烟，看着树木。
And he's like, "Come here, dude." I walked over.
他说：“过来，伙计。”我走过去。
He's like, "Look at this." And it didn't dawn on me.
他说：“看看这个。”我并没有意识到这一点。
I looked at it, and I was like, "What is it?
我看着它，心想：“这是什么？
Strange piece of machinery inside of wall." It made no sense to me whatsoever.
墙内有一个奇怪的机器。”这对我来说毫无意义。
And he looked at me.
他看着我。
He said, "Dude, your parents are taping your calls." And that meant that dad knew everything.
他说：“伙计，你的父母正在录音你的电话。”这意味着爸爸知道一切。
No wonder he was grounding me at such crucial moments in my party life.
难怪他在我聚会生活的如此关键时刻让我禁足。
I'm getting some buds and some coke delivered here tonight.
今晚我会送一些花蕾和一些可乐到这里。
Really?
真的吗？
Joshua Yeah, so listen, if you guys want to come, just call me before you come.
约书亚 是的，听着，如果你们想来，就在来之前给我打电话。
Well, you can come over here if you want.
好吧，如果你愿意的话可以过来。
Really?
真的吗？
Joshua Yeah.
约书亚 是的。
Because they're going out, so--
因为他们要出去，所以——
You don't have five grams.
你没有五克。
Boy Dude, what's the big deal?
小伙子，有什么大不了的？
I'm bumming hard.
我很苦恼。
Boy You're getting an eighth for $25 and a gram.
男孩，你花 25 美元一克就能买到八分之一。
All right, I guess I can-- Boy Is that cool?
好吧，我想我可以——男孩，这样酷吗？
The only weed he can get you is the same weed I can get you.
他能得到你的唯一杂草和我能得到你的杂草是一样的。
But dude, it's [BLEEP].
但是老兄，这是[BLEEP]。
When I saw the tape recorder, it was disbelief.
当我看到录音机时，简直不敢相信。
I was in a state of disbelief.
我处于难以置信的状态。
Pure shock.
纯粹的震惊。
This is what happened.
这就是发生的事情。
My son was a very good student.
我的儿子是一个非常好的学生。
All of a sudden, his grades started collapsing.
突然间，他的成绩开始下滑。
His school things started collapsing.
他的学校设施开始崩溃。
He started acting like a complete fool.
他开始表现得像个十足的傻瓜。
Now, he's ready to graduate from Beverly High.
现在，他准备从贝弗利高中毕业。
And his attitude is becoming a total [BLEEP] box.
他的态度正在变得完全[BLEEP]盒子。
He's becoming an asshole everywhere.
他到处都变成了混蛋。
So I thought, you know, the only way I can figure out what's happening with him is-- because he comes home every day and he's alone a long time at home, got a lot of time on the phone.
所以我想，你知道，我能弄清楚他发生了什么的唯一方法是——因为他每天都回家，而且他很长时间独自在家，有很多时间打电话。
Right?
对吗？
So I figure, well, what I'll do is that I'll tape record his phone calls.
所以我想，好吧，我要做的就是录下他的电话。
So I went to a lot of people who knew about this kind of stuff.
所以我去找了很多了解这类事情的人。
And I said, how can I do this?
我说，我该怎么做呢？
They said, well, what you have to do is get a voice-activated tape recorder.
他们说，好吧，你要做的就是买一台声控录音机。
And you have to hook it up to the phone.
而且你必须将它连接到电话上。
So I removed an outside wall of my house, which was a bunch of boards.
所以我拆掉了房子的外墙，那是一堆木板。
Removed it, built it into one situation where I could clamp it back on with magnets.
把它拆下来，把它做成一种我可以用磁铁把它夹回去的情况。
So I could take it off and put it back on.
这样我就可以把它脱下来然后再装回去。
I put this tape recorder inside the wall outside of my kitchen.
我把录音机放在厨房外面的墙上。
The wire went down, and then it went through the wall into the tape recorder.
电线往下走，然后穿过墙壁进入录音机。
I figured, nobody's ever going to notice that because it's way down on the bottom, way under everything.
我想，没有人会注意到这一点，因为它在底部，在一切的下面。
And who's going to look for the goddamn wire where the phone goes?
谁会去寻找电话所在的该死的电线呢？
[DIAL TONE] Joshua's Dad Working.
[拨号音] 约书亚的爸爸正在工作。
Working.
工作。
[CLICK CLICK CLICK] Joshua Unbelievable.
[点击点击]约书亚难以置信。
I can't believe that this is going on.
我不敢相信这一切正在发生。
It was a multiple emotional cascade because on the one hand, I'm being incredibly violated by my father.
这是多重情感的连锁反应，因为一方面，我受到了父亲的严重侵犯。
But we gave him whatever we could give him, everything we could possibly give him.
但我们给了他我们能给他的一切，我们可能给他的一切。
And then, I felt real violated by the fact that he thought that was nothing.
然后，我觉得他认为这没什么，这让我感到很受伤。
What meant something to him was that he wanted to do these things that he wanted to do.
对他来说有意义的是他想做这些他想做的事情。
He wanted to be with these people he wanted to be with.
他想和这些他想在一起的人在一起。
Dad, I went home today during fifth mod.
爸爸，我今天在第五次模组期间回家了。
Yeah?
是吗？
Joshua You turned my room upside down, didn't you?
约书亚 你把我的房间搞得天翻地覆，不是吗？
All I know is that there was a note on our front door from Annie.
我只知道我们的前门上有一张安妮写的字条。
That said?
是这么说的吗？
Joshua's Dad That said someone has been in her apartment again, taking certain things.
约书亚的爸爸说有人又进入她的公寓，拿走了某些东西。
What?
什么？
What was missing?
缺少什么？
Joshua's Dad Some drugs.
约书亚的爸爸有些毒品。
There was a note on it-- Joshua's Dad Have you been going into Annie's again?
上面有一张纸条——约书亚的爸爸，你又去安妮家了吗？
No. I just got that one bud from my friend, and that's all.
不，我刚刚从我的朋友那里得到了一颗花蕾，仅此而已。
I want to know, did you go in her apartment again?
我想知道，你又去过她的公寓吗？
I want to know, did you go in her apartment?
我想知道，你去过她的公寓吗？
Yes.
是的。
And I took one minute bud.
我花了一分钟的时间。
I didn't take drugs.
我没有吸毒。
I took one small bud, and I left.
我拿着一朵小花蕾，就离开了。
OK, you go to work.
好吧，你去上班吧。
But tonight, I want to have a little discussion with you, because I'm going to have to try to find out where you're coming from, and--
但今晚，我想与你进行一些讨论，因为我将不得不尝试找出你来自哪里，并且——
Dad, I'm not coming-- Joshua's Dad I just think I've got you figured out when something else happens.
爸爸，我不会来——约书亚的爸爸，我只是想当其他事情发生时我已经让你知道了。
No, Dad.
不，爸爸。
No. [BLEEP] Joshua's Dad He never came to my work during the day.
不。[BLEEP] 约书亚的爸爸白天他从不来我工作。
When he was going to school, never.
当他上学的时候，从来没有。
He'd start coming to my work at lunchtime.
他会开始在午餐时间来我工作。
And he would say, "Hey, I just came over to see if you guys needed any help or had anything I could do or whatever." And then he'd leave.
他会说，“嘿，我只是过来看看你们是否需要任何帮助，或者有什么我可以做的，或者其他什么。”然后他就会离开。
And there'd be like $100, $200 missing from the drawer.
抽屉里大概少了 100、200 美元。
[BLEEP].
[哔]。
I hope Scott didn't score that stuff.
我希望斯科特没有得分。
Why?
为什么？
Joshua Because I want my money back.
约书亚因为我想要回我的钱。
Because you want to buy blow, or you just don't want to--
因为你想买打击，或者你只是不想——
No, I have to give that $100 back to my dad.
不行，我得把那 100 美元还给我爸爸。
The tapes were horrible, redundant, stupid, dull.
这些磁带很可怕、多余、愚蠢、乏味。
He goes, "Check this out." And he just hit the accelerator, and the thing took off, man.
他说：“看看这个。”他一踩油门，东西就起飞了，伙计。
It was so fast.
太快了。
It's so rad.
太棒了。
You know, a teenager gets on the phone, they stay on the phone for a long time.
你知道，青少年打电话时，他们会长时间打电话。
Hours.
小时。
I would come home, and I would have to listen to three, four hours of tape of him on the phone, saying nothing.
我回到家后，必须在电话里听他三四个小时的录音，一言不发。
I mean dribble, like, "Hey, hey, man.
我的意思是运球，就像，“嘿，嘿，伙计。
What's up?
这是怎么回事？
What are you going to do?" "Hey, what are you going to do?"
你要做什么？” “嘿，你要做什么？”
But the interesting part was that things would come around, like, what are we going to do tomorrow?
但有趣的是，事情会发生，比如，我们明天要做什么？
Hey, why don't we do some coke?
嘿，我们为什么不喝点可乐呢？
Why don't we do some-- But what I tried to do was that, whenever I heard something on this tape that was a direction he was going to go in, I would say, "Could you help me at my shop tomorrow at 4 o'clock?
为什么我们不做一些——但我试图做的是，每当我听到磁带上有一些内容是他要进入的方向时，我就会说，“你能明天下午 4 点到我的店里帮我吗？
I really need you." And he'd go, "Oh, well, I'm busy." And I'd say, "I don't care how busy you are.
我真的需要你。”他会说，“哦，好吧，我很忙。”我会说，“我不在乎你有多忙。
I really need you.
我真的需要你。
This is important." And he would shut off the plans.
这很重要。”然后他就会终止这些计划。
And he would come and help me.
他会来帮助我。
So what I tried to do by listening to the tapes was to redirect whatever he was going to do.
所以我试图通过听录音来引导他要做的事情。
And I did that.
我就这么做了。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
It worked.
它起作用了。
This doesn't have anything to do with parents, man.
这跟父母没关系
We're talking serious matters.
我们正在谈论严肃的事情。
Dude, what happened?
老兄，发生什么事了？
Joshua Like Beverly Hills Police Department.
约书亚就像比佛利山庄警察局。
Dude, why?
老兄，为什么？
I'm not going to tell anybody, don't worry.
我不会告诉任何人，请放心。
--involvement with drugs at Beverly Hills High School.
——在比佛利山庄高中涉毒。
They've been calling my dad and asking him if he's ever-- You know what they said to my dad?
他们一直打电话给我爸爸，问他是否曾经——你知道他们对我爸爸说了什么吗？
What?
什么？
Joshua My dad named so many names to me that I've never even said to him.
约书亚 我爸爸给我起了那么多名字，我什至从来没有对他说过。
Dude man, they've probably been following you.
老兄，他们可能一直在跟踪你。
Dude, it's everybody.
兄弟，大家都是这样的
They've got about 50 undercover narcs at my school now.
我的学校现在有大约 50 名便衣缉毒人员。
What you should do is just stop abruptly.
你应该做的就是突然停下来。
That's what I have-- Boy Dude, don't even talk to those people.
这就是我所拥有的——伙计，别和那些人说话。
There was no way I could possibly confront him and have a truthful situation come out of it.
我不可能面对他并说出真实的情况。
No. He would never admit that to me.
不，他永远不会向我承认这一点。
Never.
从来没有。
Seeing the tape recorder made me realize, wow, what am I going to do?
看到录音机让我意识到，哇，我要做什么？
What's the way out of this?
这有什么出路呢？
Because I was a conniver.
因为我是个密谋者。
I was going to come up with the best solution to escape.
我要想出最好的办法来逃脱。
So after some thought, I decided that the best road of action would be to continue my lifestyle, of course, while simultaneously becoming perfect on the telephone.
因此，经过深思熟虑，我决定最好的行动方式当然是继续我的生活方式，同时在电话上变得完美。
In other words, I would just clean up my act on the phone.
换句话说，我只要在电话里改正我的行为就可以了。
You're quitting.
你要放弃了。
Joshua I swear.
约书亚 我发誓。
That's it.
就是这样。
It's caused me too much trouble.
给我带来了太多的麻烦。
Aren't you going to miss it?
你不会错过吗？
Joshua No way.
约书亚 没门。
Fortunately, pot is one of those things that you like outgrow, kind of.
幸运的是，大麻是那些你喜欢长大的东西之一。
It's not like you mature out of it, but you get bored of it.
这并不是说你成熟了，而是你厌倦了它。
Yeah, did you get the acid?
对了，你有酸吗？
Joshua No, dude.
约书亚 不，伙计。
When do you get it?
你什么时候收到？
Joshua I'm not going to do it, dude.
约书亚 我不会这么做的，伙计。
I'll get it for you.
我去给你拿。
But I'm not going to do it.
但我不会这么做。
Why?
为什么？
What's wrong with you, man?
你怎么了，伙计？
What are you on?
你在做什么？
What are you on?
你在做什么？
I'm not on anything.
我什么都不干。
I'm just tired.
我只是累了。
Dude, I'm going straight, man.
伙计，我要直接走了，伙计。
I'm quitting.
我要辞职了
OK, well, I want my [BLEEP].
好吧，好吧，我想要我的[BLEEP]。
Joshua Now, all I have to do is regain the respect of my father.
约书亚 现在，我要做的就是重新赢得父亲的尊重。
Well, that went on for about a month.
嗯，这种情况持续了大约一个月。
It went on for about a month of me being perfect on the telephone.
这种情况持续了大约一个月，我的电话表现一直很完美。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
He stopped busting me at crucial moments.
他不再在关键时刻打压我。
I was able to go out and do everything I wanted to.
我能够出去做我想做的一切。
I alerted everyone at Beverly that, in fact, there wasn't going to be a sweep, that it was all part of this scandal perpetrated by my father, and much to their relief.
我提醒贝弗利的每个人，事实上，不会有一场扫荡，这都是我父亲犯下的丑闻的一部分，这让他们松了一口气。
And so that went on for about a month, of this counter espionage, I guess you would have to call it.
这种反间谍活动持续了大约一个月，我想你必须称之为反间谍活动。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
It had gotten to the point of deception upon deception upon deception, multiple lies on both sides.
事情已经到了欺骗又欺骗、欺骗又欺骗的地步，双方都撒了很多谎。
So I was very disturbed by the fact that my relationship with my father had so apparently deteriorated.
因此，我对我与父亲的关系明显恶化这一事实感到非常不安。
My father means a lot to me.
我的父亲对我来说意义重大。
And he did then, and he always has.
他当时就这么做了，而且一直如此。
And I realized the degree to which we had grown apart, basically.
我基本上意识到我们已经疏远到什么程度了。
So one night, I went out with a couple of friends of mine.
所以有一天晚上，我和几个朋友出去了。
And we took some LSD, some very strong LSD that we had bought down in Hollywood from a dealer who was down there at that time, a guy by the name of Strange, was his name, actually.
我们服用了一些LSD，一些非常强烈的LSD，是我们在好莱坞从当时在那里的一个经销商那里买来的，一个名叫斯特兰奇的人，实际上是他的名字。
He was an albino.
他是一名白化病患者。
I think he's dead now.
我想他现在已经死了。
But anyway, in the throes of this LSD realization, enlightenment, that I was going through, I realized that the situation with my father was completely unacceptable.
但无论如何，在我正在经历的LSD认识和启蒙的痛苦中，我意识到我父亲的情况是完全不可接受的。
And it had to be remedied right away.
而且必须立即补救。
I had to do something immediately about it.
我必须立即采取行动。
So I told my two poor friends, who were also right in the middle of their trip, getting involved in whatever was going on in their minds.
所以我告诉我的两个可怜的朋友，他们也正在旅途中，参与他们心中正在发生的事情。
I said, "We have to go to my house.
我说：“我们得去我家。
We have to go home right now." So we drove here.
我们现在得回家了。”于是我们开车来到这里。
And Dad was having a party.
爸爸正在举办一个聚会。
There was a party going on.
正在举行一场聚会。
And I walked into the party rather nonchalantly.
我若无其事地走进了聚会。
And I looked at my father with a very serious look.
我用非常严肃的眼神看着父亲。
And I said, "I have to talk to you about something." So we walked outside to the yard out front.
我说：“我有件事要和你谈谈。”于是我们走到外面的院子里。
And I said, basically, "Dad, I know you're taping my calls.
我基本上是说：“爸爸，我知道你在录音我的电话。
And I know you've been taping my calls."
我知道你一直在录音我的电话。”
It was such a strange sort of accusation I was making, once again, because simultaneously, I was admitting to him that I knew that he knew everything that was going on.
我再次提出了一种奇怪的指控，因为同时，我向他承认我知道他知道正在发生的一切。
So on the one hand, I'm saying, "Dad, how could you be so horrible as to invade my privacy like this?" while simultaneously realizing that he knew that I had been stealing money from him to support my pot habits.
所以一方面，我说：“爸爸，你怎么可以这么可怕，竟然这样侵犯我的隐私？”同时意识到他知道我一直在从他那里偷钱来维持我的大麻习惯。
And he said, "You're right, I'm taping your calls.
他说：“你说得对，我正在录音你的电话。
I've been doing it for quite a while, as a matter of fact.
事实上，我已经这样做了很长一段时间了。
And I'm not going to do it anymore.
我不会再这样做了。
I'm not going to tape your telephone calls anymore." He said, "There's something you don't know yet, but I'll tell you now.
我不会再给你的电话录音了。”他说，“有些事情你还不知道，但我现在就告诉你。
And perhaps you will not understand what I'm saying.
也许你不会明白我在说什么。
But you think that because I'm your father and I'm in this role of the disciplinarian, that it's between you and I.
但你认为因为我是你的父亲并且我扮演着纪律者的角色，所以这是你和我之间的事情。
What you haven't realized yet is that your actions have far more impact on your own life than they will on mine.
你还没有意识到，你的行为对你自己生活的影响远大于对我生活的影响。
I've already made my life.
我已经创造了我的生活。
You have to make your life.
你必须创造你的生活。
And you don't know it yet." He said, "I'm going to take the tape recorder out tomorrow."
而你还不知道。”他说，“明天我要把录音机拿出来。”
And I was waiting for the punishment at this point, because there must be some amazing punishment coming down.
而我此时就在等待着惩罚，因为一定会有什么惊人的惩罚降临。
Because he knew everything.
因为他什么都知道。
Military school, or what's he going to do?
军校，不然他要去做什么？
He said, "I'll take the tape recorder out tomorrow.
他说：“我明天就把录音机拿出来。
And there's only one thing I want you to do." And I said, "What?" And he said, "I have about 40 tapes, about 40 90-minute tapes of you.
我只希望你做一件事。”我说：“什么？”他说：“我有大约 40 盘磁带，大约 40 盘关于你的 90 分钟磁带。
I'm going to give them to you.
我要把它们给你。
And I want you to listen to them.
我希望你听听他们的意见。
And that's all I ask.
这就是我所要求的。
No punishment.
没有惩罚。
This is over.
这已经结束了。
This chapter is over.
这章就结束了。
But the tapes are now yours."
但现在这些磁带都是你的了。”
All right, well, you don't have to talk.
好吧，你不用说话了。
It was embarrassing.
很尴尬。
I was embarrassing myself, listening to myself.
我听着自己的话，感到很尴尬。
Can I ask you something?
我能问你一件事吗？
Joshua What's that?
约书亚 那是什么？
Yeah, I think I can, if I try real hard.
是的，我想我可以，如果我真的努力的话。
I get the feeling that you've changed the way you feel about me.
我感觉你已经改变了对我的看法。
And I don't like that.
我不喜欢这样。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Girl I mean, obviously, there's nothing I can do.
女孩，我的意思是，显然，我无能为力。
Well, then, how come you haven't called me in so long?
那么，你怎么这么久没有给我打电话呢？
I've been busy.
我一直很忙。
Girl Well, that's really the truth?
女孩 那么，这真的是事实吗？
Yeah, I hope so.
是的，我希望如此。
It was about a week afterwards, and I couldn't really listen to them.
大约一周后，我已经无法真正倾听他们的声音了。
I had a very hard time listening to them.
我很难听他们说话。
In a way, it was kind of surrealistic because I had no idea what I sounded like.
在某种程度上，这有点超现实，因为我不知道自己听起来是什么样的。
And I didn't like what I sounded like at all.
而且我根本不喜欢我的声音。
I thought I sounded really kind of unkind, self-serving, mean, basically, and totally uncaring.
我觉得我听起来真的有点不友善、自私、卑鄙、基本上、完全漠不关心。
Not much.
不多。
Boy Do you have any finals tomorrow?
男孩，明天有期末考试吗？
I'm kind of busy right now.
我现在有点忙。
Boy I can tell.
男孩我可以告诉。
It sounds like people are in the background.
听起来好像有人在后台。
No, no, no. Friend units.
不，不，不。友单位。
Boy Oh, that sounds radical.
哦，这听起来很激进。
[DIAL TONE] Joshua I was very self-centered and egotistical and uncaring of other people.
[拨号音] 约书亚一世非常以自我为中心、自负且不关心他人。
It was about me.
是关于我的。
I was the star of my own stage.
我是我自己舞台上的明星。
And everybody else could basically go to hell, as far as I was concerned.
就我而言，其他人基本上都可能下地狱。
I had never realized that aspect of my personality.
我从来没有意识到我性格的这一方面。
I didn't know how mean, in that sense, I had gotten.
我不知道从这个意义上说，我变得多么卑鄙。
Hello?
你好？
Man Hello, is it possible for me to speak with Mr. Or Mrs. O'Hara?
男士您好，我可以和奥哈拉先生或夫人通话吗？
What is it in regards to?
它与什么有关？
Man The National Veteran Wheelchair Games.
男子全国退伍军人轮椅运动会。
No, I'll call back later.
不，我稍后再打电话。
Joshua Well, listen.
约书亚 好吧，听着。
Hello?
你好？
Oh, I see.
我懂了。
Joshua So, you know, I think-- What is it in regards to?
约书亚：所以，你知道，我想——它是关于什么的？
Do you owe us some money?
你欠我们一些钱吗？
No, we were selling and delivering heavy-duty plastic trash bags to raise funds.
不，我们销售和运送重型塑料垃圾袋是为了筹集资金。
So you wanted money.
所以你想要钱。
And I remember listening to that on the tapes subsequently.
我记得后来在磁带上听过这句话。
And again, it was just like, my god, I'm a monster.
再一次，这就像，天啊，我是一个怪物。
This is outrageous.
这太离谱了。
Look at the way I'm treating people.
看看我待人的方式。
Because I don't feel that way, and I'm not that type of person.
因为我没有那样的感觉，而且我也不是那样的人。
But at the time, I was, very much.
但当时，我非常。
And I didn't know it.
我不知道。
I didn't know how little I valued friendship or other people's feelings.
我不知道我是多么不重视友谊和别人的感受。
Then we went to this dance club, and we just met some people.
然后我们去了这个舞蹈俱乐部，我们刚刚遇到了一些人。
There was these girls.
有这些女孩。
But we weren't going to scam off them.
但我们不会欺骗他们。
We were just friends.
我们只是朋友。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Boy We waited for like a half hour to get our table--
男孩，我们等了大约半个小时才拿到桌子——
They were just nice?
他们只是很好？
Boy Yeah.
男孩 是的。
They were just like-- It was just conversation.
他们就像——这只是谈话。
It was--
那是——
Bleh.
布莱赫。
Dude, if I was there, that wouldn't have happened.
伙计，如果我在的话，就不会发生这种事了。
We would've done some [BLEEP].
我们会做一些[BLEEP]。
It took me about five or six years before I managed to listen to all of them.
我花了大约五六年的时间才听完他们的全部。
My course of life changed dramatically because of that event.
由于那件事，我的人生轨迹发生了巨大的变化。
And a lot changed.
并且发生了很多变化。
I still partied.
我仍然参加聚会。
But I put it back, as far as the importance, where it was on the hierarchy.
但就重要性而言，我把它放回了层次结构中的位置。
It was like smoking pot ceased to be number one.
就像吸大麻不再是第一。
And lying, deceiving, cheating, stealing, all of that, I just stopped.
撒谎、欺骗、欺骗、偷窃，所有这些，我都停止了。
Stopped it all.
停止了这一切。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
He understood the entire thing that he was doing that was so-- and believe me, it was stupid.
他明白他所做的整件事是这样的——相信我，这是愚蠢的。
Because I never had the opportunity to hear myself.
因为我从来没有机会听到自己的声音。
I didn't know.
我不知道。
I didn't know what I was doing.
我不知道自己在做什么。
The tone of voice of my quote-quote "friends"-- I could hear in their voice on the tapes, pain because of my actions and my uncaring.
我引用的“朋友”的语气——我可以从录音带上他们的声音中听出，由于我的行为和我的漠不关心而感到痛苦。
That was an awakening.
那是一种觉醒。
I haven't heard from you for a while.
我有一段时间没有收到你的消息了。
Ouch.
哎哟。
No, I just remember that.
不，我只记得那件事。
Joshua Really?
约书亚 真的吗？
I became the watcher of myself while I was acting simultaneously.
当我同时行动时，我成为了自己的观察者。
And I still do that to this day.
直到今天我仍然这样做。
I see, I'm intensely aware of my effect on other people.
我明白了，我非常清楚自己对其他人的影响。
That's one thing that definitely came out.
这是肯定出来的一件事。
It's like I know what other people are feeling about me.
就像我知道其他人对我的感觉一样。
That was an interesting look you gave me today.
你今天给我的眼神很有趣。
Oh.
哦。
Ha.
哈。
I know.
我知道。
Joshua So what's the problem with you?
约书亚 那么你有什么问题吗？
What are you pissed off at me for?
你生我什么气？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Joshua Is is that time of the month again?
约书亚 又是这个月的这个时候吗？
No. [INAUDIBLE] Joshua Well, then, what's wrong?
不。[听不清]约书亚 那么，出了什么问题？
Well, I guess the basic thing is I don't like your fluctuation in attention towards me.
嗯，我想最基本的是我不喜欢你对我的关注度波动。
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
If I'm not going somewhere, if I have not got a set place that I am off to-- and I'm probably usually late-- then I stop and talk to you.
如果我不去某个地方，如果我没有固定要去的地方——而且我通常会迟到——那么我就会停下来和你谈谈。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Joshua And well, forget it then.
约书亚 好吧，那就忘了吧。
[BLEEP].
[哔]。
It was valuable, very valuable, to be able to witness myself in that way, although painful.
能够以这种方式见证自己是很有价值的，非常有价值，尽管很痛苦。
I got to see myself.
我得看看我自己。
It's a rare gift, in a way, to be able to see yourself from the outside, from an objective point of view.
在某种程度上，能够从外部、客观的角度看待自己，是一种罕见的天赋。
I think it's probably always going to be difficult to watch yourself.
我认为观察自己可能总是很困难。
Given an opportunity, I think most people would probably not want to see themselves that clearly.
如果有机会，我想大多数人可能都不想那么清楚地看到自己。
Joshua and his father talked to Dave Kestenbaum, who's a writer for Science magazine, and to Julie Snyder.
约书亚和他的父亲与《科学》杂志的作家戴夫·凯斯滕鲍姆和朱莉·斯奈德进行了交谈。
[MUSIC - "I'VE GOT A NEW HOME" BY PILGRIM TRAVELERS]
[音乐 - 朝圣旅行者的“我有一个新家”]
Coming up, telephone as an artistic medium, telephone as muse.
接下来，电话作为一种艺术媒介，电话作为缪斯。
What a songwriter can learn from the telephone.
歌曲作者可以从电话中学到什么。
That's in a minute, from Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, invite a variety of reporters and writers and performers to tackle that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，邀请各种记者、作家和表演者来解决这个主题。
Today's show, things we learn on the phone, who we are on the phone, things we find on the phone that we can not find anywhere else.
今天的节目，我们在手机上学到的东西，我们在手机上的身份，我们在手机上找到的在其他地方找不到的东西。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program, When the Telephone is Your Medium.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕“当电话是你的媒介”。
Well, the band They Might Be Giants do not have a song on every episode of This American Life .
好吧，“他们可能是巨人”乐队并没有在《美国生活》的每一集中都有一首歌曲。
But I have to say, most weeks, at some point, contributing editor Sarah Vowell suggests a song of theirs that might work in the show.
但我不得不说，大多数时候，特约编辑莎拉·沃威尔（Sarah Vowell）都会在某个时候推荐他们的一首可能在节目中奏效的歌曲。
And that's because they are not only prolific.
那是因为他们不仅多产。
More than other bands, they write about an astonishing number of things in this surprising, funny way.
与其他乐队相比，他们以这种令人惊讶、有趣的方式写下了数量惊人的事情。
Also, although they are an actual pop band with actual pop hits, it is hard to think of any band in the last 20 years with more inventive arrangements.
此外，尽管他们是一支真正的流行乐队，拥有真正的流行歌曲，但很难想象在过去 20 年里还有哪支乐队的编曲更有创意。
They just have this sound, this sense of how different instruments go together.
他们就是有这种声音，这种不同乐器如何组合在一起的感觉。
They bring pre-rock instruments into the rock universe in this completely charming way.
他们以这种完全迷人的方式将前摇滚乐器带入摇滚宇宙。
John Linnell of They Might Be Giants, he is the Keith Richards of the bass clarinet.
他们可能是巨人的约翰·林内尔，他是低音单簧管的基思·理查兹。
And at the heart of their artistic practices-- you know we have a theme to the show every week.
他们艺术实践的核心是——你知道我们每周都有一个展览主题。
We have a theme to this show.
我们这个节目有一个主题。
And you know what the theme is.
你知道主题是什么。
So you know where I'm going with this-- At the heart of their artistic practice is the telephone.
所以你知道我要说什么——他们艺术实践的核心是电话。
It was, anyway.
无论如何，确实如此。
Still sort of is.
仍然有点是。
Sarah Vowell visited them in Brooklyn.
莎拉·沃威尔 (Sarah Vowell) 到布鲁克林拜访了他们。
What if art cost a quarter a pop?
如果艺术品的价格是流行音乐的四分之一怎么办？
What if it offered home delivery?
如果它提供送货上门服务怎么办？
What if it was short, but sweet?
如果它很短但很甜蜜怎么办？
What if art was just a phone call away?
如果艺术只是一个电话的距离呢？
[TELEPHONE RINGING] John Linnell Hello, everybody.
[电话铃声]约翰·林内尔 大家好。
This is John of They Might Be Giants.
这是《他们可能是巨人》中的约翰。
Thank you for calling our Dial-a-Song service.
感谢您致电我们的拨号歌曲服务。
We hope you like it, hope it sounds good over your phone.
我们希望您喜欢它，希望它在您的手机上听起来不错。
Thank you for calling.
感谢您打电话。
Call back anytime.
随时回电。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "DR. WORM" BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐播放 - 他们可能是巨人的“蠕虫博士”]
It's a simple, beautiful idea, that anyone, anywhere, anytime, can phone a number in Brooklyn, listen to one of They Might Be Giants' wonderful or wonderfully weird songs, and it doesn't cost anything more than any other normal call.
这是一个简单而美好的想法，任何人、任何地点、任何时间，都可以拨打布鲁克林的一个号码，听一首“他们可能是巨人”精彩或非常奇怪的歌曲，而且它的费用不比任何其他普通电话高。
Dial-a-Song's motto, "Free, when you call from work."
拨歌歌曲的座右铭是“免费，当你下班打电话时”。
When John Flansberg and John Linnell of They Might Be Giants started their Dial-a-Song service 15 years ago, they didn't have a record contract.
当 They Might Be Giants 乐队的 John Flansberg 和 John Linnell 15 年前开始提供 Dial-a-Song 服务时，他们并没有签订唱片合同。
All they had was an answering machine and a dream.
他们所拥有的只是一台答录机和一个梦想。
And that dream was to get people besides their friends to hear their music.
这个梦想是让除了他们的朋友之外的人们听到他们的音乐。
Then they got a record deal.
然后他们得到了唱片合约。
They were on the radio, on MTV, even.
他们甚至出现在广播、MTV 上。
They considered dismantling the democratic empire of Dial-a-Song.
他们考虑瓦解“拨号歌曲”的民主帝国。
But they were afraid their fans would accuse them of selling out, of turning their back on the people-- and by the people, I mean the people.
但他们担心粉丝会指责他们出卖人民，背弃人民——而人民，我指的是人民。
And you can understand that the first year, the first five years, even.
你可以理解第一年，甚至前五年。
But it's been 15 years now.
但现在已经过去15年了。
This funny little idea that they had back during the early Reagan administration, now, it's just who they are.
他们在里根执政初期就有了这个有趣的小想法，现在，这就是他们是谁。
Ladies and gentlemen, they rock the stage, they rock the records, they rock the phone lines.
女士们先生们，他们震撼了舞台，他们震撼了唱片，他们震撼了电话线。
Do you remember the first song, the first Dial-a-Song song?
您还记得第一首歌，第一首“Dial-a-Song”歌曲吗？
I do.
我愿意。
Because John said, I set it up.
因为约翰说，我设置了它。
I was living in a different part of Brooklyn, so I phoned him up.
我住在布鲁克林的另一个地方，所以我给他打电话。
And it was "Toddler Hiway." And he recorded it really quietly because we had this problem with the phone machine, where a loud sound with this particular model would actually tell the machine that that was the end of the message.
那就是“幼儿高速公路”。他非常安静地录制了它，因为我们的电话机遇到了这个问题，这种特定型号的大声声音实际上会告诉机器消息已结束。
It would think it was the beep.
它会认为这是嘟嘟声。
So almost all our songs had to be kind of tamed.
所以几乎我们所有的歌曲都必须被驯服。
And that particular note was completely off-limits.
而那个特殊的音符是完全禁止的。
Yeah, anytime there was a long note sung, we would have to break it up.
是的，只要唱出长音符，我们就必须把它分解。
We would actually sort of pop it out of the mix.
我们实际上会把它从混合中弹出。
So it would just be like, "I've been ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah," to kind of keep it from just returning.
所以它就像是，“我一直啊啊啊啊啊啊啊”，以防止它回来。
Sure, there are some adjustments you have to make if the telephone is the medium through which you express your art.
当然，如果电话是您表达艺术的媒介，您必须做出一些调整。
But there are certain advantages to this system.
但该系统有一定的优点。
You can monitor individual audience response in a way that's unavailable to more successful recording artists who restrict themselves to concerts and radio and TV-- you know, media where more than one person at a time can hear the song.
你可以用一种更成功的唱片艺术家无法使用的方式来监控个人观众的反应，他们将自己限制在音乐会、广播和电视上——你知道，在这些媒体中，一次不止一个人可以听到这首歌。
Well, I think up until Dial-a-Song, we were the kind of guys who had a four-track recorder in their bedroom.
嗯，我想在《拨歌》之前，我们都是那种在卧室里有一台四轨录音机的人。
And we would just overdub our voices or our instruments 5 million times, and go like, "Oh, listen to what the guitar sounds like if it's been overdubbed 5,000 times." And it would just kind of be, wahhhhhh.
我们会把我们的声音或乐器配音 500 万次，然后说，“哦，听听吉他如果被配音 5,000 次的话会是什么样子。”那就有点了，哇啊啊啊。
"Oh, that sounds really cool."
“噢，这听起来真的很酷。”
And then, doing Dial-a-Song actually made us realize, you're playing the song, people hang up in the middle, you can tell right away if they don't like-- you just sort of play your 5,000 guitar symphony over the thing.
然后，Dial-a-Song 实际上让我们意识到，你正在播放歌曲，人们在中间挂断电话，你可以立即看出他们是否不喜欢 - 你只需在这件事上演奏你的 5,000 吉他交响曲。
And two seconds into it, it's like, click.
两秒钟后，就像点击一样。
And you know that they hated it.
你知道他们讨厌它。
So it really was-- it was definitely like rock school.
确实如此——这绝对就像摇滚学校。
It definitely moved us in a particular direction of really clarifying what we were doing, and also clarifying the arrangement, making it really simple sounding so that you could hear what was going on over the phone.
它确实使我们朝着一个特定的方向前进，真正澄清我们在做什么，并澄清安排，使其听起来非常简单，以便您可以听到电话中发生的事情。
Right now, somewhere in this nation, there's a music student spending thousands of dollars to learn a discipline that he might master more quickly if he'd just invest in a decent voicemail system.
现在，在这个国家的某个地方，有一位音乐学生花费数千美元来学习一门学科，如果他投资一个像样的语音邮件系统，他可能会更快地掌握这门学科。
Has it changed your ideas about where art comes from?
它是否改变了你对艺术来源的看法？
Because I was reading that New Yorker article on Frank Sinatra.
因为我正在读《纽约客》关于弗兰克·辛纳屈的文章。
And there's this part where Ava Gardner runs out on him and breaks his heart.
在这一部分，艾娃·加德纳（Ava Gardner）冲向他，伤了他的心。
And he helps write "I'm a Fool to Want You." And then he stumbles into the recording studio and does it in one take and stumbles out in tears.
他还帮助创作了《想要你的我真是个傻瓜》。然后他跌跌撞撞地走进录音室，一次性完成了这一切，然后泪流满面地走出来。
But he actually always stumbled in and out of the studio.
但实际上他总是跌跌撞撞地进出工作室。
But also, if you talk to Billy May or talk to the people who put the arrangement together or the person who wrote the song, they might disagree about where the greatness of any given song comes from.
而且，如果你与比利·梅交谈，或者与编曲的人或歌曲的创作者交谈，他们可能会不同意任何一首歌曲的伟大之处。
They're involved in the process, too.
他们也参与了这个过程。
A lot of people like to think of inspiration as being, you're lying on the side of a hill, and you're waiting for the clouds to cover and then the lightning to strike you.
很多人喜欢把灵感想象成，你躺在山坡上，等待云层遮盖，然后闪电击中你。
It's this really elaborate, long process of kind of waiting for it to happen.
这是一个非常复杂、漫长的等待它发生的过程。
And sometimes, I think you can jump into the sky, grab the cloud, and grab the lightning yourself.
有时，我想你可以跳入天空，抓住云彩，自己抓住闪电。
Many, perhaps most, of the tunes on Dial-a-Song won't end up on a They Might Be Giants album.
《Dial-a-Song》中的许多（也许是大多数）歌曲最终不会出现在 They Might Be Giants 的专辑中。
But all the songs on the band's albums have been previewed on Dial-a-Song, which means that their fans are in on their process.
但乐队专辑中的所有歌曲都已在 Dial-a-Song 上进行了预览，这意味着他们的歌迷正在参与他们的创作过程。
Here's how one of the band's best known singles, "Don't Let's Start," sounded in its initial Dial-a-Song form.
以下是乐队最著名的单曲之一“Don't Let's Start”在其最初的“Dial-a-Song”形式中的听起来。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "DON'T LET'S START" BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐播放 - “别让我们开始”，他们可能是巨人]
And this is the final, more compelling rock and roll "Don't Let's Start" that ended up on the album.
这是专辑中最后一首更引人注目的摇滚歌曲“Don't Let's Start”。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "DON'T LET'S START" BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐播放 - “别让我们开始”，他们可能是巨人]
The best lyrics in the song are ones they added over what had been just an instrumental bridge in the Dial-a-Song version.
这首歌中最好的歌词是他们在 Dial-a-Song 版本中只是一个器乐桥段添加的歌词。
[SINGING] No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful.
[歌唱] 世界上没有人能得到他们想要的东西，那是美好的。
Everybody dies frustrated and sad, and that is beautiful.
每个人都在沮丧和悲伤中死去，这是美丽的。
They want what they're--
他们想要的是他们——
John Flansberg says he's often surprised by how much They Might Be Giants fans keep track of a song's evolution.
约翰·弗兰斯伯格 (John Flansberg) 表示，他经常对《他们可能是巨人》(They Might Be Giants) 的粉丝如此密切地关注歌曲的演变感到惊讶。
There's a song that's actually a bonus track on Factory Showroom.
有一首歌曲实际上是 Factory Showroom 的附赠曲目。
It's before track one, this song called "Token Back to Brooklyn." And I was talking to someone about this yesterday.
这是第一首歌之前的歌曲，名为“Token Back to Brooklyn”。昨天我正在和某人谈论这个。
And it was like this real-- It's the kind of thing that makes me feel like we are freak magnets because the guy was going, "In the song that was on Dial-a-Song, you said you wanted to kill your parents.
这就像真实的事情——这种事情让我觉得我们就像磁铁一样，因为那个人会说，“在 Dial-a-Song 的歌曲中，你说你想杀死你的父母。
And then you changed the lyric on the record--"
然后你改变了唱片上的歌词——”
To "tell our parents." John Flansberg "To 'tell our parents.'" And I was just like, "Well--" And he was like, "And like, the reason you did that was, like, why?"
“告诉我们的父母”。约翰·弗兰斯伯格“‘告诉我们的父母。’”我当时的反应是，“嗯——”他说，“你这样做的原因是，为什么？”
Because my mom was going to hear the record, maybe.
因为也许我妈妈会听这张唱片。
Yeah, and I explained to him that I really just didn't want to have any more songs about killing my parents.
是的，我向他解释说我真的不想再听任何关于杀死我父母的歌曲。
Any more songs?
还有更多歌曲吗？
John Flansberg Any more songs.
约翰·弗兰斯伯格 还有更多歌曲吗？
Yeah, we've had songs about killing our parents before.
是的，我们以前唱过关于杀死父母的歌曲。
And it really doesn't go over at holiday time.
而且假期真的不会结束。
And so he was really disappointed.
所以他真的很失望。
It was like finding out that Marilyn Manson--
这就像发现玛丽莲·曼森——
Was a nice guy?
是个好人吗？
John Flansberg --takes the makeup off.
约翰·弗兰斯伯格——卸妆。
One of my favorite They Might Be Giants songs isn't a song at all, but a mysterious recording on the album Miscellaneous T, of two unidentified callers discussing the merits of Dial-a-Song, whose number they found in the band's ad in the Village Voice .
我最喜欢的 They Might Be Giants 歌曲之一根本不是一首歌，而是专辑《Miscellaneous T》中的一段神秘录音，录音中两个身份不明的来电者讨论了 Dial-a-Song 的优点，他们在 Village Voice 的乐队广告中找到了该号码。
I don't know, [?
我不知道， [？
Laurie, ?] I just don't--
劳里，？]我只是不——
Some kind of singing.
某种歌唱。
They sound like all kinds of people, right?
他们听起来像各种各样的人，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
Female Caller And then it says, "Another child is born in India every time you call this number," right?
女性来电者 然后上面写着：“每次你拨打这个号码，印度就会有一个孩子出生”，对吧？
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
Female Caller Does that make any sense to you?
女性来电者 这对您来说有意义吗？
And the guy that spoke, I don't know who he is.
说话的那个人，我不知道他是谁。
Yeah.
是的。
Female Caller But it doesn't sound like no answering machine, right?
女性来电者但这听起来不像是没有答录机，对吧？
No, it ain't an answering machine, because they're not saying anything.
不，这不是答录机，因为他们什么也没说。
They're just--
他们只是——
But what does he get-- how does he make money on this, whatever he's advertising in the paper?
但他得到了什么——无论他在报纸上打什么广告，他如何从中赚钱？
This is the part that don't make no sense.
这是没有意义的部分。
That's where the--
那就是——
No, that was a woman who phoned up.
不，是一个女人打电话来的。
And the reason why we had this long recording of her was that she was on a conference line with somebody else.
我们之所以对她进行这么长的录音，是因为她正在和其他人一起开会。
This is another early--
这又是一个早期的——
Oh, and they were listening to it together?
哦，他们一起听？
--pop technology.
——流行技术。
Yeah, she and this guy she had phoned to tell him about Dial-a-Song were listening together.
是的，她和她打电话告诉他有关“拨歌”的那个人正在一起听。
And then, when the machine finished its song, they had this conversation.
然后，当机器唱完歌时，他们进行了这样的对话。
And they had no way of disconnecting the third line.
他们也没有办法断开第三条线路。
So we had about 45 minutes of them blabbering on.
所以我们有大约 45 分钟的时间他们喋喋不休。
They've got the craziest things in that paper.
他们在那篇论文中得到了最疯狂的东西。
But this one here, There Must Be Giants, it's called.
但这里的这个，一定有巨人，它被称为。
And it says, call machine.
它说，呼叫机器。
And they've got the phone number.
他们有电话号码。
Yeah.
是的。
Female Caller But what kind of money does he make?
女来电者 但是他赚什么钱呢？
It don't make no sense.
这没有任何意义。
[INAUDIBLE] Female Caller Well, he don't make any money, right?
[听不清] 女来电者 嗯，他不赚钱，对吧？
No. Female Caller Then he's a nut, right?
不，女来电者 那么他就是个疯子，对吧？
Yeah, [INAUDIBLE].
是的，[听不清]。
Female Caller Do you see any sense to that, There May Be Giants?
女来电者 你认为“可能有巨人”这句话有什么意义吗？
That recording I have on [INAUDIBLE], did you hear it?
我在 [听不清] 上的录音，你听到了吗？
Well, I used to call it-- I would call it-- what's the motto?
嗯，我曾经这样称呼它——我会这样称呼它——座右铭是什么？
"Free, when you call from work."
“免费，当你下班打电话时。”
(SUBJECT) JOHN FLANSBERG: "Free, when you call from work." Yeah, a lot of people do call it from work.
（主题）约翰·弗兰斯堡：“免费，当你下班打电话时。”是的，很多人确实在工作中打电话给它。
But I used to call it when I was really depressed, like so black and blue.
但当我真的很沮丧的时候，我就会这么称呼它，就像遍体鳞伤一样。
And normally, in those situations, I'd try and feed it, and just get drunk and listen to Neil Young and cry myself to sleep.
通常，在这种情况下，我会尝试喂它，然后喝醉，听尼尔·杨的歌，然后哭着入睡。
But on the healthier occasions--
但在更健康的场合——
Wow.
哇。
You should hang out with my downstairs neighbors.
你应该和我楼下的邻居一起出去玩。
On the healthier occasions, I'd go like, "I'm going to kick this thing and call Dial-a-Song." And I remember once being just so depressed and in tears.
在更健康的场合，我会说，“我要踢掉这个东西，然后打电话给歌曲”。我记得有一次我非常沮丧并流泪。
And I called it, and there was a song about how there was an ant crawling up my back.
我打电话给它，有一首关于有一只蚂蚁如何爬上我背的歌。
And it really-- it worked.
这确实有效。
It really cheered me up.
这真的让我很高兴。
It made you feel better.
这让你感觉好多了。
Yeah.
是的。
See, some people wouldn't have that response to some of those songs.
你看，有些人不会对其中一些歌曲有这样的反应。
But I always felt like there was something at least happy about the music.
但我总觉得音乐至少有一些快乐的东西。
For something so impersonal as a machine that you'd call up, that at least it was sort of merry in the music.
对于像机器这样非个人化的东西，你会调用它，至少它在音乐中是有点快乐的。
It's better than that because it kind of includes both.
它比这更好，因为它包含了两者。
Because it's very darkly merry.
因为它非常黑暗快乐。
So it's kind of that sort of happiness that recognizes the dark side.
所以这是一种认识到阴暗面的幸福。
So there's a whole other level.
所以还有一个完全不同的层面。
You had some new song at your show a couple of weeks ago that was very bright and happy, and it was about death, the death man or something like that.
几周前，你的演出中有一些新歌，非常明亮和快乐，是关于死亡、死神或类似的东西。
That's how I remember it.
我就是这样记住的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, the death man.
是的，死神。
Sarah Vowell I was picturing sickles.
莎拉·沃威尔 我正在想象镰刀。
There's another reason besides this black humor that I call Dial-a-Song when I'm sad.
除了这种黑色幽默之外，还有另一个原因，我在悲伤时称之为“拨歌”。
I used to agree with John Linnell.
我曾经同意约翰·林内尔的观点。
I used to think it was just the deliciously dark They Might Be Giants music that cheered me up during those darkest hour Dial-a-Song calls.
我曾经以为，正是“他们可能是巨人”美妙的黑暗音乐让我在那些最黑暗的时刻拨通歌曲的电话中振奋起来。
And that's part of it.
这就是其中的一部分。
But the thing that's just as reassuring about Dial-a-Song is the idea behind it, namely, that art, like life, doesn't always have to be a big production.
但《拨歌》同样令人放心的是它背后的理念，即艺术就像生活一样，并不总是需要大制作。
Sarah Vowell is the author of the book Take the Cannoli .
莎拉·沃威尔（Sarah Vowell）是《拿下奶油甜馅煎饼卷》一书的作者。
The often busy Dial-a-Song number-- get out your pens-- 718-387-6962.
经常占线的“拨歌”号码——拿出你的笔——718-387-6962。
[MUSIC - "I'M SICK" BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐 - 他们可能是巨人的“我生病了”]
Act Three, Phone as History.
第三幕，电话作为历史。
Well, we think of our phone calls and phone messages as so transient, as throwaway moments.
好吧，我们认为我们的电话和电话消息是如此短暂，是一次性的时刻。
Here is another example of a personal human history captured by phone machine, in this case, by Barrett Golding in Bozeman, Montana.
这是电话机捕捉到的个人人类历史的另一个例子，由蒙大拿州博兹曼的巴雷特戈尔丁拍摄。
The messages were about his father.
这些消息是关于他父亲的。
[BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] Bea Levine Hello, Ralph.
[嘟嘟] [嘟嘟] [嘟嘟] [嘟嘟] 碧·莱文 你好，拉尔夫。
This is Bea Levine, Janette and Ben Brooks, and Lester and Charlotte Bloom.
这是碧·莱文、珍妮特·布鲁克斯和本·布鲁克斯、莱斯特·布鲁姆和夏洛特·布鲁姆。
We're all here having a little afternoon tea.
我们都在这里喝下午茶。
And we wanted to talk to you, but I guess you're out.
我们想和你谈谈，但我猜你已经出去了。
We want to know how Ralph is.
我们想知道拉尔夫怎么样了。
Would you try to call us back one day and let us know what's going on?
您有一天会尝试给我们回电话并让我们知道发生了什么事吗？
We all want to know how Ralph is doing.
我们都想知道拉尔夫怎么样了。
We hope he's doing well.
我们希望他一切顺利。
Let us know.
让我们知道。
Bye.
再见。
[BEEP] (SUBJECT) WOMAN 1 Mr. Golding, this is [?
[BEEP]（主题）女士 1 Golding 先生，这是 [？
Dr. Spark's ?] office, confirming your appointment for Tuesday, July 12, at 4:00.
Spark 博士的 ?] 办公室，确认您在 7 月 12 日星期二 4:00 的预约。
You don't need to call us unless there's a problem.
除非出现问题，否则您无需致电我们。
Thank you.
谢谢。
[BEEP] Rose Bernstein Hi, this is Rose Bernstein.
[BEEP] 罗丝·伯恩斯坦 嗨，我是罗丝·伯恩斯坦。
Just calling to welcome you back, and hope you had a very good time.
只是打电话欢迎您回来，并希望您度过了愉快的时光。
And we'd like to say hi to you.
我们想向你问好。
Bye-bye.
再见。
[BEEP] Leah It's Leah.
[嘟嘟] 莉亚 这是莉亚。
I'm just heartsick over what happened.
我只是对所发生的事情感到心痛。
I'll get in touch with you later.
我稍后会与您联系。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].
[无法理解]。
[BEEP] Liz Hi, Mrs. Golding.
[嘟嘟]丽兹嗨，戈尔丁夫人。
It's Liz calling from Dr. Casey's office.
是莉兹从凯西医生的办公室打来的。
I wanted just to give my condolences and tell you how sorry I am.
我只是想表达我的哀悼，并告诉你我是多么的抱歉。
I think we should touch base at some point.
我认为我们应该在某个时候接触基础。
And I'll try calling you again later today.
今天晚些时候我会尝试再次给您打电话。
Bye.
再见。
[BEEP] Woman 2 Hello.
[BEEP] 女人 2 你好。
It's 12:30.
现在是 12 点 30 分。
I just got a call in reference to Ralph.
我刚刚接到一个关于拉尔夫的电话。
Please give me a call whenever you can.
请随时给我打电话。
Thank you.
谢谢。
[BEEP] [BEEP] Woman 3 --going and is there anything I can do to help?
[BEEP] [BEEP] 女人 3 --要去，有什么我可以帮忙的吗？
We could--
我们可以——
[INTERPOSING VOICES] We're all very confused.
[插话]我们都很困惑。
So give me a call.
所以给我打电话吧。
I wanted just to give you my condolences and tell you how sorry I am.
我只是想向你表示哀悼，并告诉你我是多么的抱歉。
It's Leah.
是莉亚。
I'm just heartsick over what happened.
我只是对所发生的事情感到心痛。
I'll get in touch with you later.
我稍后会与您联系。
[TAPE STOPPING] Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced by Alix Spiegel and myself, with Julie Snyder and Nancy Updike.
[磁带停止] 鸣谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们的节目是由 Alix Spiegel 和我本人以及 Julie Snyder 和 Nancy Updike 制作的。
Senior editor, Paul Tough.
高级编辑，保罗·托夫。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Lyndon Johnson tapes are in stores everywhere.
[致谢]林登·约翰逊的磁带在世界各地的商店都有售。
They are from Simon & Schuster.
他们来自西蒙与舒斯特。
Joe Skyward did the music in Barrett Golding's story in Act Three.
乔·斯凯沃德为第三幕巴雷特·戈尔丁的故事配乐。
If you would care to buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago.
如果您想购买本节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电我们位于芝加哥的 WBEZ。
The phone number, 312-832-3380.
电话号码：312-832-3380。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who describes his job overseeing us this way.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责监督，他这样描述了他监督我们的工作。
I would come home, and I would have to listen to, like, three, four hours of tape saying nothing.
我回到家，我不得不听三四个小时的磁带，什么也没说。
I mean dribble.
我的意思是运球。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
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