894: I Couldn't Help but Notice - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #894 | July 31, 2026 894: I Couldn't Help but Notice Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 894 集 | 2026 年 7 月 31 日 894：我忍不住注意到 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Back in June, Rick Cole was sitting in a meeting of the Pasadena Municipal Services Committee in City Hall there.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 早在 6 月，里克·科尔 (Rick Cole) 正在市政厅参加帕萨迪纳市政服务委员会的会议。
That's about as dull a sentence as you could start a podcast with.
这几乎是你用来开始播客的最乏味的句子了。
But then things happen.
但随后事情发生了。
Rick's a council member.
里克是市议会成员。
And I get a text that I glance at from the police chief to the city council that says, "At 5:30, we're making a public announcement that there will be military exercises in Northeast Pasadena.
我看了一眼警察局长发给市议会的短信，上面写着：“5点30分，我们将公开宣布，帕萨迪纳东北部将举行军事演习。
They will take place at St. Luke Hospital, but do not reveal the location." This is at 5:24, six minutes before the public is to be informed.
他们将在圣卢克医院举行，但不会透露地点。”这是 5 点 24 分，距离向公众通报的时间还有六分钟。
It's not unprecedented there would be military exercises in a residential area.
在居民区举行军事演习并非史无前例。
That happens in America.
这种事发生在美国。
But still, it's strange when it's your area, with no notice at all.
但是，如果这是你的区域，却没有任何通知，这还是很奇怪。
The meeting ends.
会议结束。
Rick runs to another event.
瑞克跑去参加另一个活动。
Meanwhile, I had told my assistant to post on our Instagram account that this military exercise was happening and to actually identify the location.
与此同时，我告诉我的助手在我们的 Instagram 帐户上发布这次军事演习正在进行的消息，并确定具体地点。
And she told me, you know, they told us very sternly not to say the location.
她告诉我，你知道，他们非常严厉地告诉我们不要透露地点。
And I said, the people deserve to know where this is happening.
我说，人们应该知道这件事发生在哪里。
And did she post the name of the hospital?
她有没有写出医院的名字？
She did.
她做到了。
Ira Glass Because you just figured, what are they going to do to me?
艾拉·格拉斯 因为你刚才想，他们会对我做什么？
I'm just going to do this?
我只是要做这个吗？
Exactly.
确切地。
I mean, that's the way I've lived my life, Ira.
我的意思是，这就是我的生活方式，艾拉。
He's got stories.
他有故事。
If you ever run into Rick, get him to tell you the one about how he tried to stop Christopher Columbus's great great, great great great, great great great great great, great great great great great, great great great grandson from becoming grand marshal of Pasadena's Rose Parade.
如果你遇到过里克，请让他告诉你他如何试图阻止克里斯托弗·哥伦布的伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大伟大孙子成为帕萨迪纳玫瑰花车游行的大元帅。
But I digress.
但我离题了。
Anyway, that night in June, he heads over to this hospital, a creepy old building with broken windows and peeling paint.
不管怎样，六月的那个晚上，他去了这家医院，这是一座令人毛骨悚然的老建筑，窗户破损，油漆剥落。
It's been abandoned for years.
它已经被废弃多年了。
And, sure enough, sometime around 8:00 PM--
果然，晚上 8:00 左右的某个时候——
These giant helicopters can be heard in the distance, getting closer and closer.
这些巨型直升机的声音从远处传来，越来越近。
Then they disgorge paratroopers clambering down ropes onto the roof of the hospital.
然后他们把伞兵从绳子上爬到医院的屋顶上。
Flashbang grenades are going off.
闪光手榴弹即将爆炸。
Simulated gunfire is rattling through the neighborhood.
模拟枪声在附近地区响起。
I mean, it was jaw dropping.
我的意思是，这真是令人瞠目结舌。
This is all supposed to end by 8:30, but in fact, it wasn't over until about 2:00 AM.
这一切本来应该在8:30结束，但事实上，直到凌晨2:00左右才结束。
To Rick, this was outrageous.
对于瑞克来说，这太令人震惊了。
Why do this in a residential neighborhood with no warning, so people had no chance to prepare, maybe go elsewhere for the night, maybe give their pets tranquilizers so they don't freak out?
为什么在没有任何警告的情况下在居民区这样做，让人们没有机会做好准备，也许去其他地方过夜，也许给他们的宠物注射镇静剂，这样他们就不会惊慌失措？
Now people were hearing all the commotion, probably going onto their phones to figure out what was happening.
现在人们听到了所有的骚动，可能正在打电话了解发生了什么。
And he thought he needed to jump in and explain.
他认为他需要介入并解释。
Councilmember Rick Cole here in front of the former St. Luke's Hospital.
议员里克·科尔 (Rick Cole) 在前圣卢克医院前。
As you can hear--
正如你所听到的——
He's in the dark.
他在黑暗中。
Explosions are flashing behind him, like he's some sort of suburban war correspondent.
爆炸声在他身后闪烁，就像他是某种郊区战地记者一样。
Flashbangs and simulated gunfire going on-- they're going to be going on for the next half an hour, we're told.
我们被告知，闪光弹和模拟枪声将持续半个小时。
I was focused on the fact that I should tell people what's going on, because their dogs are going to bark.
我专注于这样一个事实：我应该告诉人们发生了什么事，因为他们的狗会吠叫。
Their kids are going to ask questions.
他们的孩子会问问题。
And they're going to wonder, why are helicopters descending on Pasadena?
他们会想知道，为什么直升机要降落在帕萨迪纳？
Why are they hearing gunfire in the neighborhood?
为什么他们听到附近有枪声？
He'd done videos like this in the past, in the wake of the Eaton Fire last year, letting people know when it was safe to drink the water or eat vegetables from their gardens, that kind of thing.
去年伊顿大火之后，他就制作过这样的视频，让人们知道什么时候可以安全地喝水或吃花园里的蔬菜，诸如此类。
And this is going to go on for a while.
这种情况还将持续一段时间。
And good luck to the people that have got to get up and go to work tomorrow morning.
祝明天早上必须起床去上班的人们好运。
[GUNFIRE] Ira Glass It's funny.
[枪声] Ira Glass 很有趣。
The weird thing about this is that it seems like you all were supposed to act like this was not a weird thing to happen.
奇怪的是，你们似乎都应该表现得好像这并不是一件奇怪的事情。
That's exactly.
正是如此。
Ira Glass Did it make you feel sort of crazy to be told, like, oh, no, this is normal, don't sweat it?
Ira Glass：当你被告知“哦，不，这很正常，别担心”时，你是否感到有点疯狂？
[LAUGHS] I wouldn't say crazy.
[笑]我不会说疯狂。
It infuriated me.
这激怒了我。
We owe, to the people we serve, to treat them with respect and to keep them informed about things that affect them.
对于我们所服务的人们，我们有责任尊重他们，并让他们了解影响他们的事情。
And this was such a egregious breach of that trust.
这是对这种信任的严重违反。
Rick couldn't help but notice that nobody in the military seemed to care how everyday citizens were experiencing all this.
里克不禁注意到，军队中似乎没有人关心普通公民如何经历这一切。
And as a 73-year-old councilmember, he felt a duty to take what he saw as a more old-fashioned approach and reached, by the way, nearly 8 million people with his videos informing the public, succeeding more than he ever imagined.
作为一名 73 岁的议员，他感到有责任采取他认为更为老式的方法，顺便说一句，他的视频向公众传播了近 800 万人的信息，取得的成功超出了他的想象。
Today on our program, we have stories of people who see a future arrive that feels uglier and meaner than the past.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了人们的故事，他们看到未来的到来感觉比过去更丑陋和更卑鄙。
And it's not like they can turn that around.
他们似乎无法扭转这一局面。
It's way too big.
它太大了。
But in every story today, there is somebody who takes a stand and tries to clean up the mess that's around them or call attention to that mess and say no.
但在今天的每个故事中，都会有人表明自己的立场，试图清理周围的混乱局面，或者引起人们的注意并说不。
We have stories today of some very stubborn and idealistic people, from a small town in Maine to a school in Russia.
今天我们有一些非常顽固和理想主义的人的故事，从缅因州的一个小镇到俄罗斯的一所学校。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life, Act One, Closing Time.
这就是《美国生活》，第一幕，结束时间。
Sometimes, as things change in a country because of big historic forces, doctors get put in some weird and difficult situations.
有时，当一个国家由于巨大的历史力量而发生变化时，医生会陷入一些奇怪和困难的境地。
That's what happened in this first act in Maine, way up north in Aroostook County.
这就是在缅因州北部的阿鲁斯托克县发生的第一幕。
That's so far north that the Canadian border is closer than the nearest US city.
那儿太北了，以至于加拿大边境比最近的美国城市还要近。
The local hospital there is Houlton Regional Hospital.
当地的医院是霍尔顿地区医院。
And last year, they announced they were going to close their labor and delivery unit, with one month's notice.
去年，他们宣布将关闭分娩部门，并提前一个月通知。
Even the unit's nurse manager, Heather Quint, had no idea this was actually coming.
就连该科室的护士经理希瑟·昆特 (Heather Quint) 也不知道这真的会发生。
It was delivered very abruptly and matter of factly, I guess.
我想，它的交付非常突然，而且事实上是这样。
This is what's happening.
这就是正在发生的事情。
Our birth rates are going down.
我们的出生率正在下降。
We can't recruit.
我们不能招募。
It's not, basically, a money-maker.
基本上，它不是一个赚钱工具。
So we're closing.
所以我们要关门了。
There was no, I'm sorry.
没有，抱歉。
We hate to-- it was just very matter of factly.
我们讨厌——事实上，这只是非常重要的事情。
It is pretty matter-of-fact reality at this point in America, rural hospitals closing.
目前在美国，农村医院关闭是一个相当现实的现实。
But labor and delivery departments in particular, they've been vanishing in lots of rural areas.
但在许多农村地区，特别是劳动力和分娩部门已经消失。
And when a community loses a place to have babies, in the first weeks after that happens, that's when you really see what it means in people's lives.
当一个社区失去生育婴儿的地方时，在发生这种情况后的头几周内，你才能真正看到这对人们的生活意味着什么。
And the story in Maine unfolded just after Houlton Regional Hospital packed up its labor and delivery department, closed the doors there.
缅因州的故事是在霍尔顿地区医院收拾好待产和分娩部门并关门后发生的。
As that was happening, a woman who lives in the area, named Katie Gowell, was pregnant with her fifth child.
与此同时，居住在该地区的一位名叫凯蒂·高威尔的妇女怀上了她的第五个孩子。
This was a low-risk pregnancy.
这是一次低风险妊娠。
She was planning to give birth at home, just like she'd done with her fourth child.
她计划在家分娩，就像她生第四个孩子一样。
Her family doctor, who was a midwife before she became a doctor, was going to deliver the baby.
她的家庭医生在她成为医生之前是一名助产士，即将接生这个孩子。
So that was the plan.
这就是计划。
29 days after Houlton closed its labor and delivery department, Katie Gowell went into labor at home.
霍尔顿关闭分娩部门 29 天后，凯蒂·高威尔 (Katie Gowell) 在家中分娩。
Reporter Elaine Appleton Grant has the story of what happened next.
记者伊莱恩·阿普尔顿·格兰特讲述了接下来发生的事情。
Quick heads up before we start-- some of us here on staff found ourselves thinking about the TV show The Pitt as we were making this story, because there's no way to explain what happened without diving into some very vivid medical details during childbirth.
在我们开始之前先提醒一下——我们的一些工作人员在制作这个故事时发现自己想到了电视节目《皮特》，因为如果不深入研究分娩过程中一些非常生动的医疗细节，就无法解释发生的事情。
I just want to say, if that's not for you, please know that is part of this story.
我只是想说，如果这不适合你，请知道这是这个故事的一部分。
Here's Elaine Appleton Grant.
请听伊莲·阿普尔顿·格兰特的报道。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Katie Gowell I'm like, well, Mom, maybe I shouldn't have called them already, because it was sort of-- I kind of went like a standstill for a while.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON）凯蒂·高威尔（Katie Gowell） 我想，好吧，妈妈，也许我不应该给他们打电话，因为那是——我有一段时间陷入了停滞。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs But all of a sudden, it was like someone poked me awake.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 但突然之间，就像有人把我吵醒了。
And I sat bolt upright.
我坐直了。
And I said, what did Katie say?
我说，凯蒂说什么了？
And Katie was down the hallway in the bathroom at that point.
那时凯蒂正在走廊的浴室里。
So I went down there, and I said, did you say something?
所以我就去那里，我说，你说了什么吗？
And she said, yeah.
她说，是的。
I said, my water broke.
我说，我羊水破了。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Katie Gowell And then I just sat there for a few minutes.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 (ELAINE APPLETON) 凯蒂·高威尔 (Katie Gowell) 然后我就坐在那里几分钟。
And so then I'm like, well, I'm going to get up now.
然后我就想，好吧，我现在要起床了。
And then I went to wipe, and I felt something.
然后我去擦拭，我感觉到了一些东西。
And she said, what's that?
她说，那是什么？
And I looked down in the toilet, and there was probably 8 inches of cord hanging out, not quite touching the toilet water, but close.
我低头看了看马桶，大概有 8 英寸长的绳子悬在外面，虽然没有完全接触到马桶水，但也很接近了。
So I was like, immediately, this is very bad.
所以我立刻就想，这非常糟糕。
This is a prolapsed cord, which rarely happens.
这是脐带脱垂，这种情况很少发生。
I just said, it looks like the cord.
我刚才说，它看起来像绳子。
We need to check you out.
我们需要检查一下你。
And let's get in the bed.
让我们上床吧。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs And we got her on the bed.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我们让她躺在床上。
And I was checking to see if she's completely dilated, ready to push the baby out.
我正在检查她是否已经完全扩张，准备好将孩子推出来了。
I thought, it's her fifth baby.
我想，这是她的第五个孩子了。
I thought, if we could give one push and finish this, I'll do that.
我想，如果我们能全力以赴完成这件事，我就会这么做。
But that wasn't the case.
但事实并非如此。
She was probably about 6 centimeters.
她大概有6厘米左右。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I was terrified, because I didn't want the baby to die.
（主持人） ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs 我很害怕，因为我不想让孩子死。
(INTERVIEWER) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I turned around.
（采访者） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 (ELAINE APPLETON) 罗斯·福克斯 (Rose Fuchs) 我转过身来。
And my nurse has beautiful big, blue eyes.
我的护士有一双漂亮的蓝眼睛。
And they always comfort me in the middle of anything.
他们总是在任何事情中安慰我。
And I turned around, and I looked in her eyes.
我转过身，看着她的眼睛。
And I said, call 911.
我说，拨打 911。
And her eyes went two sizes bigger because she's actually never heard me say that in working with her 12 years.
她的眼睛放大了两倍，因为在与她共事 12 年的过程中，她实际上从未听我这么说过。
Yeah.
是的。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I started to coach her that the life of the baby is at stake, and you're going to have to go through quite a bit if we're going to hope to save your child.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON）罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我开始告诉她，婴儿的生命处于危险之中，如果我们希望拯救你的孩子，你将不得不经历很多事情。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Katie Gowell Because me, being in the moment, I don't remember every detail, where she would remember every detail.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿凯蒂·高威尔 因为我，活在当下，我不记得每一个细节，而她会记得每一个细节。
And I trust her with telling my story.
我相信她会讲述我的故事。
I trust her completely with everything.
我对她的一切都完全信任。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I chose what I thought was the best course of action, which-- I gently replaced it into the vagina.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我选择了我认为最好的行动方案，我轻轻地将它放回阴道。
Is that OK to say on tape?
可以在磁带上说吗？
OK, gently replaced it inside so that the warmth of her body would keep the cord warm, because I knew we're in Maine, and although it was June, it wasn't that warm.
好吧，轻轻地把它放回里面，这样她身体的温暖就能让绳子保持温暖，因为我知道我们在缅因州，虽然是六月，但并不那么温暖。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I shifted myself and climbed onto the bed between her legs, crouching, sort of on all fours, kneeling, crouching down.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿·罗斯·福克斯 我换了个身子，爬到她双腿之间的床上，蹲着，有点像四肢着地，跪着，蹲着。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I was internally inside the patient, pushing upward toward her head as, basically, hard as I could, using two fingers to push up, the rest of my fingers to lightly be touching the cord to keep track of the heart tones at all times.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿·罗斯·福克斯 我在患者体内，基本上尽我所能地向上推向她的头部，用两根手指向上推，其余手指轻轻接触脐带，以始终跟踪心音。
Because if they slowed down, I knew something's pinching.
因为如果他们放慢速度，我就知道有什么事情会发生。
If they slowed down, I also knew I needed to push up higher and get the head up higher.
如果他们放慢速度，我也知道我需要推得更高，把头抬得更高。
(INTERVIEWER) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs Probably up to my wrist, starting forearm.
（采访者） ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs 大概到我的手腕，从前臂开始。
Meanwhile, Katie's own body wants to push the baby out, right?
与此同时，凯蒂自己的身体想要把婴儿推出去，对吧？
Contractions push down.
宫缩会向下推。
So to have my hand, that's painful for her.
所以握住我的手，对她来说是痛苦的。
And I knew it was painful.
我知道这很痛苦。
And I told her, I'm very sorry, but I can't care about your pain.
我告诉她，我很抱歉，但我不在乎你的痛苦。
It's a very weird pain.
这是一种非常奇怪的疼痛。
It's a deep pain.
这是一种深深的痛苦。
Anyone who's had a cervical biopsy, an endometrial biopsy, an IUD put in-- I think it's a pain no one can describe.
任何接受过宫颈活检、子宫内膜活检、放置宫内节育器的人——我认为这是一种无人能描述的痛苦。
And then this is times a whole lot more, because there's a baby in there too, and now someone's hand as well.
然后这个次数就多了很多，因为里面还有一个婴儿，现在也有人的手。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I said, no, we're not.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我说，不，我们不是。
And they said, well, that's what they're saying.
他们说，好吧，他们就是这么说的。
I said, I don't care what they're saying.
我说，我不在乎他们说什么。
We are not doing that.
我们不会那样做。
You tell them a doctor's on site.
你告诉他们现场有医生。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs And I said, you call Houlton Regional.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我说，你给霍尔顿地区打电话。
You're telling them we're coming.
你告诉他们我们要来了。
And I mean, we're coming.
我的意思是，我们来了。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs I said, Sasha, then get a chainsaw and cut the wall down.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯 我说，萨莎，然后拿把电锯把墙锯掉。
(INTERVIEWER) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs He was ready to go get a chainsaw and cut the wall down because they knew I wasn't moving, and I wasn't allowing her to get up.
（采访者） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（Elaine Appleton） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 他准备去拿电锯把墙锯掉，因为他们知道我一动不动，而且我也不让她站起来。
I didn't care if it was EMS and their truck.
我不在乎这是不是 EMS 和他们的卡车。
I was not giving over my place of authority, because I did not see that they had adequate knowledge or understanding of the situation.
我并没有放弃我的权力，因为我没有看到他们对情况有足够的了解或理解。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs We always count to three, and then we all pull together, like a bunch of he-men.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 我们总是数到三，然后大家齐心协力，就像一群男人一样。
So he's like, who's going to count?
所以他就像，谁来数数？
And how are we going to do this?
我们该如何做呢？
Are you going to count?
你会数数吗？
Who's going to count?
谁来数数？
They just kept on like that.
他们就这样继续下去。
And I looked at my nurse, and I said, you count.
我看着我的护士，我说，你算。
So she took over.
于是她接手了。
Like, she heard me say that, and that was it.
就像，她听到我这么说，就是这样。
And I hate to get real loud on this mic, but she proceeded to just roar.
我讨厌用这个麦克风大声说话，但她继续咆哮。
We're going to count.
我们来数一数。
1, 2, 3!
1、2、3！
And honestly, I think she almost single-handedly pulled me, Katie over to the gurney, with them helping some.
老实说，我认为她几乎单枪匹马地将我和凯蒂拉到轮床上，他们帮助了一些人。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs It's a very bumpy road.
（主持人） ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs 这是一条非常崎岖的道路。
These are the back roads of the county, right?
这些是县城的小路吧？
So potholes, bumps, very curvy.
所以坑坑洼洼，颠簸，非常弯曲。
At times, I thought I was going to fall off the gurney.
有时，我以为我要从轮床上掉下来。
And the paramedic would grab the waistband on the back of my skirt and hold me so I would hold steady.
护理人员会抓住我裙子后面的腰带并抱住我，这样我就能保持稳定。
And I needed to hold steady.
我需要保持稳定。
My hand had to hold steady.
我的手必须保持稳定。
And her leg, at one point, slipped off the gurney and sort of fell down.
她的腿有一次从轮床上滑落，摔倒了。
And so I grabbed her leg and pulled it back up, and I was holding her leg on the gurney with me.
于是我抓住她的腿，把它拉起来，然后我把她的腿放在轮床上。
So it was a tight squeeze.
所以这是一个紧张的挤压。
I was beginning to feel exhausted.
我开始感到精疲力竭。
I myself don't have the best back, and this was a very awkward position.
我自己没有最好的背部，这是一个非常尴尬的位置。
And your legs are all curled up under you.
你的腿都蜷缩在你身下。
So you're in an intense kneeling-- sitting on your legs, squatting.
所以你处于强烈的跪下状态——坐在腿上，蹲着。
So my legs are falling asleep.
所以我的腿睡着了。
My hand is starting to fall asleep from the angle that I'm at.
从我所处的角度来看，我的手开始入睡。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs But my hand would periodically feel like it was completely numb.
（主持人） ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs 但我的手会时不时地感觉完全麻木了。
And I would worry, like, am I going to be pinching this cord?
我会担心，比如，我会捏这根绳子吗？
And then it would wake up again intermittently.
然后又会断断续续地醒来。
But it was painful, like when your hand falls asleep and it's very painful.
但很痛，就像你的手睡着了一样，非常痛。
It was becoming physically very painful to continue.
继续下去，身体会变得非常痛苦。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Dispatcher LifeFlight still headed to Houlton Regional?
（主持人）ELAINE APPLETON 调度员 LifeFlight 仍前往霍尔顿地区吗？
Yeah.
是的。
They just started spooling up.
他们刚刚开始打线。
I'm looking out my window at them.
我正看着窗外的他们。
So yeah.
所以是的。
That's our plan.
这就是我们的计划。
They are just now leaving the scene, headed to the hospital.
他们刚刚离开现场，前往医院。
I did not agree with that plan at all, because I knew that I could not take another however many minutes it would take to get into LifeFlight, and them to fuel up, and then to stay like that till a C-section can be done at Eastern Maine Hospital in Bangor.
我根本不同意这个计划，因为我知道我不能再花几分钟的时间进入 LifeFlight，给他们加油，然后就这样一直呆到班戈东缅因医院进行剖腹产。
There's just no way.
就是没有办法。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Monica Tschirhart I think they woke me up from sleep.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 莫妮卡·奇哈特 我想他们把我从睡梦中吵醒了。
So it was one of those, like, ring, ring, phone call.
所以这是其中之一，比如，响铃，响铃，电话。
What's going on?
这是怎么回事？
OK.
好的。
I'll be there in five minutes.
我五分钟后就到。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Monica Tschirhart But I'm here.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 莫妮卡·奇哈特 但我在这里。
At that point, I'm like, no, we'll have the baby here.
那时，我想，不，我们会在这里生孩子。
And let's go ahead and call in the OR team, and we should deliver her here.
我们去叫手术室团队吧，我们应该把她送到这里。
We still have that capability.
我们仍然有这个能力。
And everyone at that point was like, oh, yeah, we can do that.
当时每个人都说，哦，是的，我们可以做到。
(INTERVIEWER) ELAINE APPLETON Monica Tschirhart Yeah.
（采访者） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 莫妮卡·奇哈特 是的。
They didn't even really think about the fact they still had that capability.
他们甚至没有真正考虑过他们仍然拥有这种能力。
But at that transition time, they did.
但在那个过渡时期，他们做到了。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs And so we pulled up at the ambulance entrance, and the obstetrician came outside to meet us, which I was so glad for, and started taking the history from me while we were unloading.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON）罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs）所以我们在救护车入口处停下来，产科医生出来迎接我们，我对此感到非常高兴，并在我们下车时开始向我询问病史。
And I was like, hi, I'm Dr. Tschirhart.
我当时就想，嗨，我是 Tschirhart 博士。
I'm an OB/GYN.
我是一名妇产科医生。
I'm the one on call today.
我是今天值班的人。
Recommendation is emergency C-section, if it's OK with you.
如果您同意的话，建议进行紧急剖腹产。
And we're going to roll you right into the operating room and deliver the baby.
我们将把你推进手术室并生下孩子。
Dr. Fuchs also was giving me kind of a sign-out about what was happening with her, what her background was, and that she could still feel the cord pulse.
福克斯医生还向我示意她发生了什么事，她的背景是什么，以及她仍然能感觉到脐带搏动。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Monica Tschirhart So we basically put the surgical drapes over the top of Dr. Fuchs, threw the Betadine sterilizing fluid on Katie.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON）莫妮卡·奇哈特（Monica Tschirhart）所以我们基本上把手术单放在福克斯医生的身上，把聚维酮碘消毒液泼在凯蒂身上。
They opened a bottle of iodine and dumped it over her belly, over my top of my arm, my forearm that was near her.
他们打开一瓶碘酒，把它倒在她的腹部、我的手臂上方、我靠近她的前臂上。
So my cheek is laying on Katie's thigh.
所以我的脸颊贴在凯蒂的大腿上。
I have my head sideways, trying to breathe in a little air pocket in this drape.
我把头侧向一边，试图呼吸窗帘上的小气穴。
It's a very awkward position, to say the least, for her and me.
至少可以说，对于她和我来说，这是一个非常尴尬的处境。
We have surgical equipment and tubing and electrocautery and suction kind of sitting on top of Dr. Fuchs, because she's right there between Katie's legs.
我们在 Fuchs 医生身上放置了手术设备、管道、电灼器和抽吸器，因为她就在 Katie 的双腿之间。
I can feel they are putting their tools on my back.
我能感觉到他们把工具放在我的背上。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs And nurses sort of scurried about, looking for a Doppler.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（ELAINE APPLETON） 罗斯·福克斯（Rose Fuchs） 护士们四处奔走，寻找多普勒检查。
They either couldn't find one or they didn't have one available, but they had no Doppler anyway.
他们要么找不到多普勒仪，要么没有可用的多普勒仪，但无论如何他们都没有多普勒仪。
And so I told her, it's OK, because I can feel the heartbeat.
所以我告诉她，没关系，因为我能感觉到心跳。
And so it had been 120s.
就这样，已经过去了 120 秒。
But then at one point, while they were still prepping, it went down to, like, 90.
但有一次，当他们仍在准备时，分数下降到了 90 左右。
And so I called that out to her.
所以我向她喊出了这一点。
I said, so we're down to 90.
我说，所以我们已经降到90了。
You all better hurry.
你们最好快点。
(INTERVIEWER) ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs A normal fetal heart rate is 120 to 160.
（采访者） ELAINE APPLETON Rose Fuchs 正常胎心率为 120 至 160。
And so we allow a little bit outside that range, but 90 is definitely getting in trouble.
所以我们允许稍微超出这个范围，但 90 肯定会遇到麻烦。
It's often the signal that there's an impending disaster.
这通常是灾难即将发生的信号。
My fear was the next beat was going to be 60 and the next beat nothing.
我担心下一个节拍会是 60，而下一个节拍什么也没有。
And then I did my usual, which-- I pushed a little harder on the head, tried a little harder to protect the cord, and I felt the heart rate go back up to the 120s.
然后我像往常一样，用力推头部，用力保护脐带，我感觉心率又回到了 120 秒。
So then I called out again to reassure them, we're back up to the 120.
于是我再次打电话让他们放心，我们已经恢复到 120 了。
You're OK.
你没事吧。
We're doing all right.
我们一切都好。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Monica Tschirhart As soon as she went to sleep, I made the incision, got down to her uterus.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿（Elaine Appleton） 莫妮卡·奇哈特（Monica Tschirhart） 她一入睡，我就切开切口，深入到她的子宫。
I could feel them start to cut the skin and the muscle layers to enter the abdomen.
我能感觉到它们开始切割皮肤和肌肉层进入腹部。
And I thought, oh, dear, my fingers are awfully high up there.
我想，哦，亲爱的，我的手指在那里太高了。
What if they cut my fingers?
如果他们割伤我的手指怎么办？
I better pull back a little bit at just the right moment, but not too soon to lose the heartbeat.
我最好在适当的时候退缩一点，但不要太早，以免失去心跳。
So I withdrew a little bit.
所以我就退缩了一点。
And then I could sort of feel them, that they were in the uterus.
然后我能感觉到它们，它们在子宫里。
And my hand reached down to pull the baby's head out, and our hands touched.
我伸手将婴儿的头拉了出来，我们的手碰在一起了。
So my hand touched Dr. Fuchs's hand as I was lifting the baby's head out of the incision.
因此，当我将婴儿的头部从切口中抬起时，我的手碰到了福克斯医生的手。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Katie Gowell I could see her off to my left, when she was getting worked on.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 (ELAINE APPLETON) 凯蒂·高威尔 (Katie Gowell) 当她接受治疗时，我可以在我左边送她。
And then when I was in the recovery room, she was still getting worked on, because then that's when they put her in their incubator type thing.
然后当我在康复室时，她仍在接受治疗，因为那时他们就把她放在保温箱之类的东西里。
I still didn't get to hold her.
我还是没能抱住她。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Katie Gowell I cried.
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 凯蒂·高威尔 我哭了。
I cried.
我哭了。
I didn't know at that time-- I didn't know how she was.
那时我不知道——我不知道她怎么样。
I didn't get to see her.
我没能见到她。
I didn't get to know anything.
我什么都不知道。
And then I just saw them wheel her away.
然后我就看到他们把她推走了。
It's just a-- I don't know how to describe-- it's a very hard thing, especially seeing her leave.
这只是——我不知道如何描述——这是一件非常困难的事情，尤其是看到她离开。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's just-- it was hard, very hard.
只是——这很难，非常难。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Heather Quint I wanted to be like-- when they closed it down, I wanted to be like, OK, this is what you guys want?
（主持人） 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 (ELAINE APPLETON) 希瑟·昆特 (Heather Quint) 我想成为——当他们关闭它时，我想成为，好吧，这就是你们想要的？
This is what you're going to get.
这就是您将得到的。
But the nurse in me, the person in me-- that's my patient.
但我体内的护士、我体内的那个人——那就是我的病人。
Hell, yes, I'm going to be there.
天哪，是的，我会去那里。
I threw on my clothes, and I was there.
我穿上衣服，就在那里。
And I went to Bangor with her.
我和她一起去了班戈。
And I sat, and I held her hand, and I talked to her the entire time.
我坐下来，握着她的手，一直和她说话。
So, no. Oh.
所以，不。哦。
When I got the call, I wanted to be like, figure it out, but not when my patients are involved.
当我接到电话时，我想弄清楚，但当我的病人参与其中时，我就不想了。
I'm like, yep, I'll be right down.
我想，是的，我马上就下来。
(HOST) ELAINE APPLETON Ira Glass Elaine Appleton Grant.
（主持人）伊莱恩·阿普尔顿 艾拉·格拉斯 伊莱恩·阿普尔顿·格兰特。
That story was produced by Lilly Sullivan and edited by Phia Bennin.
该故事由莉莉·沙利文 (Lilly Sullivan) 制作，菲亚·本宁 (Phia Bennin) 编辑。
Elaine originally learned about this story from reporting by Emily Hedegard and Stephanie McFeeters of The Maine Monitor.
伊莱恩最初是通过《缅因监视器》的艾米丽·赫德加德和斯蒂芬妮·麦克菲特斯的报道了解到这个故事的。
Coming up, raise your hand if you know what Труд -- дело чести means.
上来，如果您知道 Труд -- дело чести 的意思，请举手。
That's in a minute, comrades, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
同志们，芝加哥公共广播电台的节目马上就要继续了。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "I Couldn't Help but Notice," we have stories where people see a new future arrive, one that is not quite as pleasant as the past.
今天的节目“我情不自禁地注意到”，我们讲述了人们看到新的未来到来的故事，这个未来并不像过去那么令人愉快。
And they can't help themselves.
他们无法帮助自己。
They take action, in some way or another, in their own little corner of the world.
他们以某种方式在自己的世界小角落里采取行动。
We've arrived at act two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, Conversations About Important Things.
第二幕，关于重要事情的对话。
So the documentary that won this year's Academy Award is called Mr. Nobody Against Putin.
所以今年获得奥斯卡金像奖的纪录片叫做《无人反对普京先生》。
It was co-directed by a Russian guy and an American, Pasha Talankin and David Borenstein.
该片由俄罗斯人和美国人帕夏·塔兰金（Pasha Talankin）和大卫·博伦斯坦（David Borenstein）共同执导。
And it's about the propaganda campaign that was rolled out in Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 and the shock of that propaganda push, for one person in particular.
这是关于俄罗斯在 2022 年入侵乌克兰后在俄罗斯开展的宣传活动，以及这种宣传活动所带来的震惊，尤其是对一个人来说。
If you haven't seen the film, it is really worth seeing.
如果你还没看过这部电影，那真的值得一看。
And one of the people on staff here at This American Life, Valerie Kipnis, has watched it four times.
《美国生活》的一名工作人员瓦莱丽·基普尼斯 (Valerie Kipnis) 已经看了四遍。
She'll tell you why.
她会告诉你原因。
Here's Val.
这是瓦尔。
Here are some scenes from my family growing up.
以下是我家庭成长过程中的一些场景。
Someone, let's say my mom, would say this to me.
有人，比如说我妈妈，会对我这么说。
Glory to labor!
劳动光荣！
She'd say it in Russian.
她会用俄语说。
Then she'd hand me a broom.
然后她递给我一把扫帚。
Or she'd say, Труд -- дело чести.
或者她会说，Труд——дело чести。
Labor is a matter of honor.
劳动是一个荣誉问题。
She used to say that on Sunday morning when she woke me up for chores.
周日早上，当她叫醒我做家务时，她常常这么说。
These are all propaganda slogans from her upbringing in the Soviet Union.
这些都是她在苏联长大的宣传口号。
She and my dad both grew up there.
她和我父亲都在那里长大。
My dad would say things like this too.
我爸爸也会说这样的话。
So did my grandmothers.
我的祖母也是如此。
They both live with us.
他们都和我们住在一起。
And these lines always got a laugh from each other.
这些台词总是引起对方的笑声。
Like, my mom would say, Партия -- наш рулевой!.
就像，我妈妈会说，Партия - наш рулевой！
The party is our helmsman.
党是我们的舵手。
And my grandmother, Bella, would laugh and say, last time I saw that one was on the wall of an auditorium.
我的祖母贝拉会笑着说，我上次看到那个是在礼堂的墙上。
Unlike them, I grew up here, which meant I was always behind, always playing catch-up in a household full of inside jokes, always trying to see into this world they had in their heads.
与他们不同，我在这里长大，这意味着我总是落后，总是在一个充满内部笑话的家庭中追赶，总是试图了解他们头脑中的这个世界。
I was obsessed with it.
我对此很着迷。
So I'd ask the same questions over and over again.
所以我会一遍又一遍地问同样的问题。
And they would answer my questions patiently, kindly, on long car rides, on the subway to school, on our walks near the BQE.
无论是在长途汽车旅行中、在去学校的地铁上、还是在 BQE 附近散步时，他们都会耐心、友善地回答我的问题。
But I kept going.
但我继续前进。
I wanted to understand what it actually felt like to live surrounded by banners and slogans.
我想了解生活在横幅和口号包围下的真实感受。
My grandmother would shrug and say что было, то было.
我的祖母会耸耸肩说“что было”，“то было”。
It just was what it was.
事情就是这样。
It didn't feel special to us.
对我们来说并没有什么特别的感觉。
We didn't know another version of life.
我们不知道生活的另一个版本。
And then she'd call me by my family nickname, почемучка, which means, roughly, "kid who drives us crazy by asking why all the time."
然后她会用我的家族昵称“почемучка”来称呼我，大致意思是“总是问为什么让我们发疯的孩子”。
Being a почемучка and all, it's only natural that I watched this new documentary four times-- three times before it won the Oscar, just saying.
作为一名电影爱好者，我很自然地看了这部新纪录片四遍——只是说，在它获得奥斯卡奖之前看了三遍。
And the thing I couldn't get enough of was that here was a movie that answered some of the questions I'd been asking for so long.
让我无法释怀的是，这部电影回答了我长期以来一直在问的一些问题。
The documentary starts less than a month after Russia invaded Ukraine, the beginning of the full-scale invasion.
这部纪录片开始于俄罗斯入侵乌克兰不到一个月后，即全面入侵的开始。
And it focuses on one school in one town in Russia as the Ministry of Education rolls out a massive, nationwide propaganda campaign, a new, quote, "patriotic curriculum," which would include new lesson plans for teachers, nationalistic poem recitations for students, mandatory school-wide salutes to the flag, and mandatory lessons called Разговоры о важном.
它的重点是俄罗斯一个城镇的一所学校，教育部推出了一场大规模的全国性宣传活动，一种新的“爱国课程”，其中包括教师的新课程计划、学生的民族主义诗歌朗诵、全校范围内的强制性向国旗敬礼，以及名为“Разговоры о важном”的强制性课程。
Conversations about Important Things, where teachers are asked to talk about stuff like the importance of war songs or the heroism of Russian fighters.
关于重要事情的对话，要求老师谈论诸如战歌的重要性或俄罗斯战士的英雄主义之类的话题。
Also, a single approved set of history textbooks, written by two people closely affiliated with the Kremlin.
此外，还有一套经批准的历史教科书，由与克里姆林宫关系密切的两个人编写。
High-schoolers would start paramilitary training in gym class.
高中生将在体育课上开始准军事训练。
And in the school that's in the documentary, one teacher captures how this all plays out, Pasha Talankin.
在纪录片中的学校里，一位老师帕夏·塔兰金（Pasha Talankin）记录了这一切的发生过程。
And I called him up.
我给他打了电话。
Here was a person who made a whole film about what it felt like to see slogans in the auditorium, different slogans than the ones my parents and grandparents grew up with-- a very different time-- but with an undeniable similarity.
这个人拍了一部完整的电影，讲述在礼堂里看到口号的感觉，这些口号与我父母和祖父母长大时的口号不同——一个非常不同的时代——但有着不可否认的相似之处。
Both then and now, the state had a tight grip on its own people.
无论是当时还是现在，国家都严格控制自己的人民。
And here was Pasha, who wasn't just seeing what was happening around him.
帕夏不仅看到了周围发生的事情。
He wanted the whole world to see what he was seeing.
他想让全世界都看到他所看到的一切。
This is Pasha.
这是帕夏。
He's got a round, wide-eyed baby face, big glasses.
他有一张圆圆的、大眼睛的娃娃脸，戴着大眼镜。
He's an impish kind of person who talks through a smile, like he's in on some joke you don't know about.
他是那种顽皮的人，说话总是带着微笑，就像在讲什么你不知道的笑话一样。
The school in the film is actually the same school he once attended.
影片中的学校实际上是他曾经就读的同一所学校。
And he loves the school, loves his students, loves his grumpy mom.
他爱学校，爱他的学生，爱他脾气暴躁的妈妈。
She's the school librarian.
她是学校的图书管理员。
And when the film begins, he's the school's event coordinator and videographer.
当电影开始时，他是学校的活动协调员和摄像师。
He films the piano recitals, graduations, performances.
他拍摄钢琴独奏会、毕业典礼和表演。
And under the brand-new patriotic curriculum at Pasha's school, Pasha was told he now had a brand-new role.
在帕夏学校全新的爱国课程下，帕夏被告知他现在有了一个全新的角色。
He would be filming teachers and students performing the new lessons.
他将拍摄教师和学生表演新课程的过程。
He'd be filming the new flag salutes and paramilitary trainings.
他将拍摄新的国旗敬礼和准军事训练。
And he would be sending all of that footage to the government as proof of compliance.
他会将所有这些镜头发送给政府作为合规证明。
I wanted to know what he thought of his new role as he was doing it, how it actually felt.
我想知道他在担任新角色时的想法以及实际感受如何。
He answered by telling me a story that never made it into the film.
作为回答，他给我讲了一个从未出现在电影中的故事。
What was I thinking about when I filmed this?
当我拍这个的时候我在想什么？
I mean, at first, I was just-- how do you say this in Russia?
我的意思是，一开始，我只是——这在俄罗斯怎么说？
I started sweating under my visor.
我的面罩下开始出汗。
I just lost my mind about what was happening.
我对正在发生的事情失去了理智。
I just totally freaked out.
我简直吓坏了。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter When I was going to film computer class-- it didn't end up in the final cut-- I asked myself a question.
[说俄语] 口译员 当我要拍摄计算机课时——它没有出现在最终剪辑中——我问自己一个问题。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter Who is that idiot who was going to be watching all this shit?
[俄语] 翻译 那个要观看这些狗屎的白痴是谁？
Who is he?
他是谁？
Who is that moron?
那个白痴是谁？
I mean, it should be some sort of paid job, sitting and watching all this shit.
我的意思是，这应该是某种有报酬的工作，坐着看这一切。
They should pay you some money for that, at least a little bit.
他们应该为此付给你一些钱，至少是一点点。
Anyway, I did this one little bit of trickery, where I left in only the beginning of the class, where the teacher says, hello, kids, and the end, where they say, OK, class is over.
不管怎样，我做了一点小伎俩，我只留下了课程的开始，老师说，你好，孩子们，最后，他们说，好吧，课程结束了。
But the shot itself went the whole time of the class, 45 minutes.
但镜头本身却贯穿了全堂课，45 分钟。
So in the middle, there was just a black screen, as if something had gone wrong with my camera.
所以在中间，只有一个黑屏，就好像我的相机出了问题一样。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter And I sent the video in.
[说俄语] 翻译 我把视频发了进去。
And I sat there waiting as they looked over the footage.
我坐在那里等待他们查看录像。
And I kept waiting for them to say, we can't see it.
我一直在等他们说，我们看不到。
Something went wrong.
出了点问题。
It's just a black screen.
这只是一个黑屏。
And they didn't give me a single note.
他们没有给我一张纸条。
And I thought--
我想——
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter --holy shit.
[说俄语] 翻译——天啊。
I'm here not to actually record, but to surveil the teachers.
我来这里不是为了录音，而是为了监视老师。
Watch out.
当心。
We're watching you.
我们正在看着你。
We have a camera.
我们有一台相机。
Here it is, recording you.
就在这里，记录你。
And in that moment, I thought, I'm being used.
在那一刻，我想，我被利用了。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter I'm being used.
[说俄语] 我正在被使用翻译。
He figured, yeah, OK, they were using him.
他想，是的，好吧，他们在利用他。
But he was simultaneously and obsessively filming the changes at his school for his own purposes.
但他同时出于自己的目的而着迷地拍摄学校的变化。
And the footage that Pasha captured was really eye-opening for me.
帕夏拍摄的镜头确实让我大开眼界。
It answered so many of the questions I'd badgered my family with over the years.
它回答了多年来困扰我家人的许多问题。
Because the propaganda, as it rolls out, is sort of the opposite of what I'd always imagined it would be, you know, the classic images of state control-- the seamless, crisp obedience, massive signs, arms being raised in unison, echoey speeches delivered to neat rows of thousands of people.
因为宣传，随着它的展开，有点与我一直想象的相反，你知道，国家控制的经典形象——无缝、干脆的服从、巨大的标语、齐声举起手臂、向整齐排列的数千人发表回声演讲。
Pasha shows scenes that are so intimate and small and messy, a teacher stumbling over new words she's now required to say, denazification, demilitarization.
帕莎展示了如此亲密、狭小和混乱的场景，一位老师结结巴巴地说出她现在被要求说的新词：去纳粹化、非军事化。
He films teenagers, bored out of their minds, staring blindly into space as another teacher tells them--
他拍摄了一些青少年，他们百无聊赖，盲目地凝视着太空，另一位老师告诉他们——
If you were born in this country and you don't believe we're doing the right thing, then leave.
如果你出生在这个国家并且你不相信我们在做正确的事，那就离开。
Go to the country that you think is better.
去你认为更好的国家。
Pasha films young kids with these tiny red berets, chanting new slogans in an assembly.
帕夏拍摄了戴着红色小贝雷帽的小孩子在集会上高呼新口号的镜头。
They're excited, but looking at each other, like, right?
他们很兴奋，但看着对方，就像，对吧？
We're saying the right thing?
我们说的对吗？
The school days in the film look kind of normal in so many ways, despite all the changes.
尽管发生了这些变化，电影中的学生时代在很多方面看起来都很正常。
Kids still horse around and tease each other.
孩子们仍然互相嬉戏、互相戏弄。
There are still piano recitals.
至今仍有钢琴演奏会。
It's still just school.
这还只是学校。
But Pasha was like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes.
但帕夏就像那个穿着皇帝新衣的孩子。
Every change stood out to him.
每一个变化都让他印象深刻。
And he couldn't stop talking about it.
他无法停止谈论这件事。
His own mother was like, of course these things are happening.
他自己的母亲说，这些事情当然正在发生。
They've always been this way.
他们一直都是这样。
Shut up.
住口。
And he argued with her.
他还和她争吵。
He lived in a sort of continuous state of shock about the war, about the propaganda.
他生活在一种对战争和宣传的持续震惊之中。
And he told me that when the patriotic curriculum started, he kept sort of waiting for the people around him to freak out as much as he was about what they were being asked to do.
他告诉我，当爱国课程开始时，他一直在等待周围的人像他一样对他们被要求做的事情感到惊慌。
But most people just went along with it, adapted, or chose to stay quiet.
但大多数人只是顺从、适应，或者选择保持沉默。
I wondered why he didn't do that.
我想知道他为什么不这样做。
Then, when I talked to him, I got it.
然后，当我和他交谈时，我明白了。
For starters, Pasha and I are almost the same age, in our 30s.
首先，Pasha 和我的年龄几乎相同，都是 30 多岁。
And part of why he's so stunned by what's happening is because of the era he grew up in.
他对所发生的事情如此震惊的部分原因在于他成长的时代。
It was right after the Soviet Union fell apart, but before Vladimir Putin really started consolidating power.
那是在苏联解体之后，但在弗拉基米尔·普京真正开始巩固权力之前。
So Pasha was raised in this short window of time when students weren't flooded with slogans and propaganda in the schools, when schools were left mostly untouched by the state apparatus, because the state apparatus had fallen apart.
因此，帕夏是在这段短暂的时间里长大的，当时学校里还没有充斥着学生们的口号和宣传，学校基本上没有受到国家机器的影响，因为国家机器已经分崩离析。
And so what Pasha was seeing was something my parents and grandparents never got to see-- the beginning of a propaganda push in the schools, which meant he understood what his school was losing when it adopted these changes.
因此，帕夏看到的是我的父母和祖父母从未见过的事情——学校里宣传力度的开始，这意味着他明白他的学校在采取这些变革时正在失去什么。
And he knew what he was personally losing as nationalism became more and more strictly enforced.
他知道随着民族主义变得越来越严格，他个人正在失去什么。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Valerie Kipnis Over and over again in the film, he addresses people in his life in the camera directly.
[俄语] 瓦莱丽·基普尼斯 (Valerie Kipnis) 在影片中一次又一次地直接在镜头中对生活中的人们讲话。
Like, can you believe this?
就像，你能相信这个吗？
Why is this happening?
为什么会发生这种情况？
Potchemy.
制陶术。
He told me that off camera, he had many more exchanges like that, especially with the other teachers.
他告诉我，在镜头外，他还有很多这样的交流，尤其是与其他老师的交流。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter The teachers came to me.
[俄语] 翻译 老师们来找我。
They said, Pasha, we don't like all this.
他们说，帕夏，我们不喜欢这一切。
And then they come into class and started to say what the Ministry of Education had sent over to them.
然后他们走进课堂，开始讲教育部发给他们的内容。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter The teachers are hostages of this system too.
[俄语] 翻译 老师们也是这个系统的人质。
Pasha also saw himself as a hostage.
帕夏也将自己视为人质。
Before the war and the new curriculum, Pasha was the teacher with the Pussy Riot poster on his wall, the cool guy, the weirdo whose office all the theater kids hung out in, the teacher who had different politics than what was on TV every night.
在战争和新课程之前，帕夏是一位墙上挂着“暴动小猫”海报的老师，一个很酷的家伙，一个办公室里所有剧院孩子都在的怪人，一个与每晚电视上的政治观点不同的老师。
And for a while, even after the war was underway, he was able to continue being that guy.
有一段时间，即使战争已经开始，他仍然能够继续做那个人。
He wore blue and yellow paperclips on his clothing as symbols of support for Ukraine.
他在衣服上佩戴蓝色和黄色的回形针，作为对乌克兰支持的象征。
He hung an image of an anti-war flag in his office, flipped a Russian flag outside the school upside down.
他在办公室挂了一面反战旗帜的图像，将学校外的俄罗斯国旗翻转过来。
One time, he even played Lady Gaga singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" during a flag assembly instead of the Russian national anthem.
有一次，他甚至在升旗仪式上让 Lady Gaga 唱《星条旗永不落》，而不是唱俄罗斯国歌。
In the movie, he does things that I could not believe he was getting away with.
在电影中，他做了一些我不敢相信他竟然能逃脱惩罚的事情。
In a country that was introducing laws to criminalize things, like even saying that the war was, in fact, a war, how on Earth could he just do these things and not get in trouble?
在一个制定法律将事情定为犯罪的国家，甚至说战争实际上是一场战争，他到底怎么可能做这些事而不惹上麻烦呢？
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter People sort of saw me as--
[说俄语] 翻译 人们有点认为我是——
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter --a jester, a holy fool.
[俄语] 翻译——一个小丑，一个神圣的傻瓜。
There he goes, walking around, being foolish.
他就这样走来走去，傻乎乎的。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter In Russia, there is this historical tradition that the jester, the holy fool, could speak out, even to the tzar.
[说俄语] 翻译 在俄罗斯，有这样的历史传统：小丑、圣傻瓜可以大声说话，甚至可以对沙皇说话。
The lowest level of society, the most seemingly worthless people, they could say exactly what they thought, tell anyone right to their face.
社会最底层，最看似无价值的人，他们能说出自己的想法，当面告诉任何人。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Valerie Kipnis But that didn't mean the tzars would just ignore him forever.
[俄语]瓦莱丽·基普尼斯但这并不意味着沙皇会永远忽视他。
When I talked to Pasha about how his constant provoking was playing out in real life, he told me that behind the scenes of making the film, he could feel his status changing from holy fool to persona non grata.
当我和帕夏谈论他不断的挑衅在现实生活中的表现时，他告诉我，在拍摄这部电影的幕后，他能感觉到自己的地位从神圣的傻瓜变成了不受欢迎的人。
This isn't in the film, but at some point, at Pasha's school, compliance started being supervised in person via a new, quote, "advisor on student affairs." And this advisor took a special interest in Pasha.
这在电影中并没有出现，但在某个时候，在帕夏的学校，合规性开始受到一位新的“学生事务顾问”的亲自监督。这位顾问对帕夏特别感兴趣。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter This advisor was supposed to monitor student activity on social media, establish contact with them, basically sniff everything out.
[俄语] 口译员 这位顾问的职责是监控学生在社交媒体上的活动，与他们建立联系，基本上嗅出一切。
And so one day, this advisor came to me and said, I'm going to close your little bullshit factory.
所以有一天，这位顾问来找我说，我要关闭你这个胡说八道的小工厂。
Your office in other words, right?
换句话说，你的办公室，对吗？
I'm going to close it.
我要关闭它。
And so I took my door off its hinges and put it in front of her door and said, how are you going to close this bullshit factory if it doesn't have any doors?
于是我把我的门从铰链上取下来，放在她的门前，然后说，如果这个工厂没有门，你怎么能关闭它呢？
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter But, of course, this performance eventually ended, and I returned the door to its place.
[说俄语] 翻译 但是，当然，这场表演最终结束了，我把门放回了原来的位置。
But in the meantime, she got really committed to this work of telling the students not to come see me.
但与此同时，她真正致力于这项工作，告诉学生不要来看我。
And fewer kids were showing up at his office.
出现在他办公室的孩子也越来越少。
The domain he'd carved out inside the school-- not just the physical space of his office, but the permission he represented for kids who wanted to joke around, talk freely, ask questions, and for him to be able to do that-- that was being shrunk down to nothing.
他在学校内开辟的领域——不仅仅是他办公室的物理空间，还有他为那些想要开玩笑、自由交谈、提出问题的孩子们所代表的许可，以及他能够做到这一点的权限——现在被缩小到了零。
When I asked Pasha what this period of his life felt like, he gave me an answer that I can't help but classify as literally the most Russian thing I've ever heard.
当我问帕夏这段时期的生活感觉如何时，他给了我一个答案，我不禁将其归为我听过的最俄罗斯化的答案。
He said it was like this one painting he loves, Barge Haulers on the Volga, which is an oil-on-canvas painting by Ilya Repin.
他说，这就像他最喜欢的一幅画《伏尔加河上的驳船搬运工》，这是伊利亚·列宾的一幅布面油画。
It depicts 11 men hauling a barge along the banks of a river.
它描绘了 11 名男子沿着河岸拖着一艘驳船。
These men are at the point of collapse from exhaustion, oppressed by heavy, hot weather, leaning into these big leather straps attached to the boat they're pulling.
这些人正因疲惫而崩溃，又被又闷又热的天气压得喘不过气来，靠在他们拉的船上的大皮带上。
They're exhausted, covered in dirt.
他们已经筋疲力尽，浑身都是泥土。
But among them stands a younger man, whose face is in the path of the sun.
但他们中间站着一个年轻人，他的脸正对着太阳的路径。
He looks in a different direction.
他看向另一个方向。
He looks up.
他抬起头。
And his body refuses to pull the boat.
而他的身体却拒绝拉船。
He seems to be the only one questioning the work they're being asked to do.
他似乎是唯一对他们被要求做的工作提出质疑的人。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter Like, why are we doing all this?
[俄语] 口译员 比如，我们为什么要做这一切？
And the rest of them just keep their head down, keep pulling this ship along the Volga--
剩下的人就低着头，继续沿着伏尔加河拉着这艘船——
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter --as if they don't hear what he's saying.
[说俄语] 翻译——就好像他们没有听到他在说什么。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter It's like you're speaking different languages and you won't understand each other.
[说俄语] 口译员 这就像你们在说不同的语言，但你们无法理解对方。
You don't have points of contact.
你们没有联系点。
You don't have common views on basically any questions.
你们基本上对任何问题都没有共同的看法。
You can't discuss issues that demand discussion.
你不能讨论需要讨论的问题。
They require it, not because you can change something, but because you need to not be alone.
他们需要它，不是因为你可以改变某些事情，而是因为你需要不孤单。
You need to speak in order to feel support, to find at least one person that you can talk about this with.
您需要说话才能获得支持，才能找到至少一个可以与您谈论此事的人。
But there's no one.
但没有人。
There is one last scene in the film that really got to me.
影片中的最后一个场景真正打动了我。
It's so inside in a way that lets you really feel how much has changed in this one school, this one town.
它是如此的内在，让你真正感受到这一所学校、这一座城镇发生了多大的变化。
Pasha gets invited to this party of a recent graduate, Vanya, who's heading off to the army.
帕夏受邀参加即将参军的应届毕业生万尼亚举办的派对。
It's his going away party.
这是他的告别派对。
All his friends toast to him and wish him luck in the future.
他所有的朋友都向他敬酒，祝他未来好运。
They pose for pictures with Vanya.
他们与万尼亚合影留念。
Instead of "cheese," they say, "army!"
他们不说“奶酪”，而是说“军队！”
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Valerie Kipnis Then they take turns shaving his head with a shaver that breaks halfway through the process.
[俄语] Valerie Kipnis 然后他们轮流用剃须刀给他剃光头，但剃须刀在剃须过程中途损坏了。
Pasha takes a turn at shaving Vanya's head.
帕夏轮流为瓦尼亚剃光头。
As he does it, he asks, you decided to sign up on your own?
当他这样做时，他问道，你决定自己报名吗？
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Valerie Kipnis Vanya says, didn't have time.
[俄语] Valerie Kipnis Vanya 说，没有时间。
They sent for me.
他们派人来找我。
Pasha says, why didn't you call me?
帕夏说，你为什么不打电话给我？
Vanya sort of shrugs, as if Pasha's question is dumb and annoying.
万尼亚耸耸肩，好像帕夏的问题既愚蠢又烦人。
But then, quietly, he mumbles, it just all happened so fast, in a split second.
但随后，他轻声咕哝道，这一切发生得太快了，就在一瞬间。
Besides that, it's all laughs and jokes and debauchery.
除此之外，全都是欢笑、笑话和放荡。
The shaving part is funny.
剃须部分很有趣。
Everyone's kind of wasted.
每个人都有点浪费了。
But then as it gets late, Vanya and his friends start embracing.
但天色已晚，瓦尼亚和他的朋友们开始拥抱。
One guy cries and hugs him, tells him that he really loves him so much, that he won't forget him.
一个男人哭着拥抱他，告诉他他真的很爱他，他不会忘记他。
He tells him, you're like a brother to me, not by blood, but by soul.
他告诉他，你对我来说就像兄弟，不是血缘上的，而是灵魂上的。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Valerie Kipnis Vanya doesn't look so brave in the dark.
[俄语] 瓦莱丽·基普尼斯·万尼亚 (Valerie Kipnis Vanya) 在黑暗中看起来并不那么勇敢。
He looks small and scared.
他看起来很小而且很害怕。
His friends also do.
他的朋友也这样做。
And that's when it hit me.
就在那时，我受到了打击。
Before now, Vanya and the others seem like they maybe believed in this war, like they wouldn't mind going to fight for Russia.
在此之前，瓦尼亚等人似乎对这场战争充满信心，似乎不介意为俄罗斯而战。
But in this moment, it feels like you can see everyone grasp the realness of the thing they'd been saying, and then immediately understand that there was now no turning back, like a joke gone too far.
但在这一刻，感觉你可以看到每个人都抓住了他们所说的事情的真实性，然后立即明白，现在已经没有回头路了，就像一个玩笑开得太大了。
Because at this point, so many Russians have gone to fight this war, and well over 100,000 Ukrainians have been killed in it.
因为此时此刻，已经有很多俄罗斯人参加了这场战争，并且有超过10万乌克兰人在这场战争中丧生。
Do people believe the propaganda?
人们相信宣传吗？
I wondered this question over and over again as I was watching.
我在观看的过程中一遍又一遍地想知道这个问题。
Does Vanya actually believe in the war he's going to fight?
万尼亚真的相信他将要打的战争吗？
Do the teachers believe that Russia is denazifying Ukraine?
老师们相信俄罗斯正在剥夺乌克兰的主权吗？
Do the kids throwing fake grenades believe in the country they are being trained to defend?
那些扔假手榴弹的孩子们相信他们接受训练要保卫的国家吗？
It's a version of the question I've been asking my family my whole life.
这是我一生都在问家人的问题的一个版本。
But did you believe in the things you were being taught, the things you were doing, the slogans hung up in the gym?
但你相信你所学到的东西、你所做的事情、健身房里挂的口号吗？
Those are the questions they seem the most frustrated by.
这些是他们似乎最沮丧的问题。
It took me asking Pasha to figure out why.
我询问帕夏才弄清楚原因。
When I asked him if the people around him believe in all this, he scoffed at me, the way my grandma does, like, that's a bad question, you dummy journalist.
当我问他周围的人是否相信这一切时，他嘲笑我，就像我奶奶那样，就像，这是一个糟糕的问题，你这个假记者。
Don't you understand?
你不明白吗？
He told me, it doesn't matter if people believe in it or not.
他告诉我，人们信不信并不重要。
What matters is that they say it, that they hang the slogans, teach the lessons, sing the anthems.
重要的是他们说出来、挂出标语、讲授课程、唱国歌。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter First, it's a routine that's like, I believe, I don't believe, but I say it.
[说俄语] 口译员首先，这是一个惯例，就像，我相信，我不相信，但我会说出来。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter Then it becomes culture.
[说俄语] 翻译 然后它就变成了文化。
These lessons are already in the schedule.
这些课程已经在日程表中了。
Everyone's used to it, like, you got to say this.
每个人都习惯了，就像，你必须这样说。
You got to listen to that.
你必须听听那个。
You got to raise the flag or whatever else.
你必须升起旗帜或其他什么。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter And then it becomes a cage, and you think this is normal.
[说俄语] 翻译然后它变成了一个笼子，你认为这是正常的。
And I'd also add that the cage actually remains open.
我还要补充一点，笼子实际上仍然是开放的。
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Interpreter And you can leave it at any moment.
[俄语] 翻译 您可以随时离开。
But as soon as you do, you realize that everyone else is in the cage.
但一旦你这么做了，你就会意识到其他人都在笼子里。
You walk out, and you realize that you've become an outcast, a loner, that your opinion, you, yourself, you don't matter to anyone.
你走出去，你意识到你已经成为一个被遗弃的人，一个孤独的人，你的观点，你，你自己，你对任何人都不重要。
And that's also the work of propaganda.
这也是宣传工作。
That's what it does.
这就是它的作用。
Pasha became more and more isolated, retreated from his friends and family.
帕夏变得越来越孤立，远离他的朋友和家人。
They stayed away from him too.
他们也远离了他。
An unmarked vehicle showed up outside his home.
一辆没有标记的车辆出现在他家门外。
And he got scared and left the country without telling anyone where he was going or why.
他感到害怕，离开了这个国家，没有告诉任何人他要去哪里或为什么。
And he can't go back.
而他不能回去。
I should probably fess up now and say, all those times I was asking my family about how they felt, growing up, when I was posing those exact questions to Pasha, in the back of my mind, I was always wondering, who would I be if I was put in that situation, what kind of person?
我现在也许应该承认，在成长过程中，当我向帕夏提出这些确切的问题时，我一直在问我的家人他们的感受，在我的内心深处，我总是在想，如果我处于那种情况下，我会是谁，是什么样的人？
Would I be able to see what was happening and push back?
我能看到正在发生的事情并进行反击吗？
When I saw the film and when I talked to Pasha, I found all these similarities between us.
当我观看这部电影并与帕夏交谈时，我发现我们之间有所有这些相似之处。
We're both similar ages, similar tendency to ask questions.
我们年龄相仿，提问的倾向也相似。
And I did think-- quietly, to myself-- that had I been put in the situation, I probably would be like Pasha.
我确实在心里默默地想，如果我处于这种情况，我可能会像帕夏一样。
I told my dad this-- big mistake.
我告诉我爸爸这是一个大错误。
He said, really?
他说，真的吗？
You'd be like that?
你也会这样吗？
What are you doing right now in this country?
你现在在这个国家做什么？
There are things happening here that you don't like.
这里发生了一些你不喜欢的事情。
Then I said, I'm doing my best, I think.
然后我说，我想我已经尽力了。
Then he said, well, isn't that great?
然后他说，好吧，这不是很好吗？
Your best.
你最好的。
What's that got to do with anything?
这有什么关系吗？
Valerie Kipnis is one of the producers of our show.
瓦莱丽·基普尼斯是我们节目的制作人之一。
The actor who's reading Pasha's quotes in English was E.
正在读帕夏的英文名言的演员是 E.
Lia Kleinbock.
莉亚·克莱因博克。
Well, our program was produced today by Nadia Reiman and edited by Nancy Updike.
嗯，我们今天的节目由纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 制作，南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 编辑。
The people who put together today's show include Chana Joffe-Walt, Adriene Lilly, Tobin Low, Molly Marcello, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Ruthie Petitto, Ryan Rumery, Ruby Schwartz, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Marisa Robertson-Textor, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Chana Joffe-Walt、Adriene Lilly、Tobin Low、Molly Marcello、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Ruthie Petitto、Ryan Rumery、Ruby Schwartz、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Marisa Robertson-Textor、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman, Senior Editor, David Kestenbaum.
我们的总编辑是 Sarah Abdurrahman，高级编辑 David Kestenbaum。
Our Executive Editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是埃马努埃莱·贝里。
Special thanks today to Emmanuelle Pare, David Borenstein, Katia Kize, Bela Shayevich, Daniel Plyam, Katherine Emery, Ruth and Mark Fitzpatrick, Henry Frank, Chris Lavoie, and Brett Morse.
今天特别感谢 Emmanuelle Pare、David Borenstein、Katia Kize、Bela Shayevich、Daniel Plyam、Katherine Emery、Ruth 和 Mark Fitzpatrick、Henry Frank、Chris Lavoie 和 Brett Morse。
Elaine Appleton Grant's story in Act One was supported by a grant from the National Institute for Health Care Management.
伊莱恩·阿普尔顿·格兰特在第一幕中的故事得到了国家医疗保健管理研究所的资助。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Special thanks today to This American Life Partners Sean Collins and Stonewall and Traveler Peek.
今天特别感谢《This American Life》的合作伙伴 Sean Collins、Stonewall 和 Traveler Peek。
Sean Collins, I know you.
肖恩·柯林斯，我认识你。
We worked together at NPR.
我们在 NPR 一起工作。
Nice to see you here in this ad.
很高兴在此广告中见到您。
How's Oklahoma?
俄克拉荷马州怎么样？
They and all of our Life Partners have subscribed to help us keep making our program.
他们和我们所有的生活伙伴都订阅了帮助我们继续制作我们的计划。
When you do that, you get to listen ad free.
当您这样做时，您就可以免费收听广告。
And you get other stuff, including bonus episodes.
你还可以获得其他东西，包括奖励剧集。
Our most recent one that I did with one of my coworkers, Diane Wu, turned out so much more emotional and personal than I think either of us expected.
我最近和我的一位同事黛安·吴 (Diane Wu) 一起做的一件事情，结果比我想象的更加情绪化和个人化。
Anyway, if you want to hear that, you got to join.
无论如何，如果你想听这个，你就必须加入。
Go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
访问 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
That link is also in the show notes.
该链接也在节目注释中。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
His dream job was actually to be on Sesame Street.
他梦想的工作实际上是在芝麻街。
When he auditioned, he was told his performance was not quite right for children.
当他试镜时，他被告知他的表演不太适合儿童。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。