888: Not Today, Hades! - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #888 | June 5, 2026 888: Not Today, Hades!
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 888 集 | 2026 年 6 月 5 日 888：不是今天，哈迪斯！
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ike Sriskandarajah From WBEZ Chicago, It's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ike Sriskandarajah，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah in for Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 的艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾 (Ike Sriskandarajah)。
Pablo, does this feel like an Icarus story to you?
巴勃罗，你觉得这像伊卡洛斯的故事吗？
Maybe, potentially.
也许，有可能。
Ike Sriskandarajah What part?
艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾 (Ike Sriskandarajah) 什么部分？
This is Pablo Manriquez, and he recently survived his own personal Greek tragedy.
这是巴勃罗·曼里克斯，他最近刚刚从自己的希腊悲剧中幸存下来。
He's a reporter in Washington, DC.
他是华盛顿特区的一名记者。
I've known him for years.
我认识他很多年了。
And this all began when a ripped-open package showed up on his front stoop.
这一切都始于一个撕开的包裹出现在他的门廊上。
It's late winter, 2022.
现在是 2022 年冬末。
I find a box outside of my apartment.
我在公寓外面发现了一个盒子。
Inside is a canvas, the four primary colors, a paintbrush, and a palette.
里面有一张画布、四种原色、一支画笔和一个调色板。
It just seemed like a sign.
这看起来只是一个迹象。
Yeah.
是的。
And that's like-- what's the sign?
这就像——标志是什么？
It was just, I thought to myself, somebody painted every painting in the Capitol and the White House and the Department of Justice.
我心想，只是有人画了国会大厦、白宫和司法部的每一幅画。
All these agency buildings, they have oil paintings.
所有这些机构大楼，都有油画。
And yet, in the 15 years that I've been in Washington, I've never met an oil painter.
然而，在我来华盛顿的15年里，我从未见过一位油画家。
He had this light bulb moment.
他突然灵光一现。
That could be him.
那可能就是他。
It wasn't the first time he decided to become a new Pablo.
这并不是他第一次决定成为新的巴勃罗。
When we first met, he was doing PR work.
我们第一次见面时，他正在做公关工作。
But he decided he wanted to be a reporter no matter what.
但他决定无论如何都要成为一名记者。
So at 37, he moved into a flophouse and began freelancing for small publications.
于是，37 岁时，他搬进了一家廉价旅馆，开始为小型出版物做自由职业者。
And now he spends his days chasing down politicians in the halls of Congress.
现在他整天在国会大厅里追捕政客。
He made it happen.
他让这一切发生了。
So with these art supplies, he began to imagine this other life for himself.
于是，有了这些美术用品，他开始想象自己的另一种生活。
And he made a Pablo kind of plan.
他制定了一个巴勃罗式的计划。
So I was like, if I become an oil painter, I would basically be the only oil painter I know and, in some sense, have a monopoly on oil painting in Washington.
所以我想，如果我成为一名油画家，我基本上将是我认识的唯一油画家，并且从某种意义上说，我垄断了华盛顿的油画。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
If you want an oil painting, especially a portrait, you have to come to me.
如果你想要一幅油画，尤其是肖像画，你必须来找我。
What Pablo lacks in skill and experience he compensates for with heat-seeking opportunism and blinding self-confidence.
巴勃罗缺乏技巧和经验，但他用热衷的机会主义和盲目的自信来弥补。
It can rub people the wrong way, but I appreciate the hustle.
这可能会惹恼人们，但我很欣赏这种忙碌。
Pablo, it's so funny to me that you're trying to pick one career in-- I can say it --a dying industry by supplementing your income with another dying industry.
巴勃罗，这对我来说太有趣了，你试图通过另一个垂死的行业来补充你的收入，从而在——我可以这么说——一个垂死的行业中选择一个职业。
Reporting, an artist, it's like the two poorest.
报道说，一个艺术家，就像两个最穷的人。
It didn't make any sense to a lot of people.
这对很多人来说没有任何意义。
But it made sense to Pablo.
但这对巴勃罗来说是有道理的。
Pablo looked down at the new tools in his hands and then tilted his head skyward.
巴勃罗低头看了看手中的新工具，然后仰起头。
Even as Icarus did before him, he saw a way to soar where no mortal had dared to soar.
正如伊卡洛斯在他之前所做的那样，他看到了一种凡人不敢翱翔的方式。
Our show today, myths in real life.
我们今天的节目，现实生活中的神话。
What happened next to Pablo, and other daring actions by mortals challenging their small lives.
接下来发生在巴勃罗身上的事情，以及凡人挑战他们渺小的生命的其他大胆行动。
And a cameo by a real life god because the gods get mad if you don't include them, and I'm too busy to get smote.
还有现实生活中的神客串，因为如果你不包括他们，众神就会生气，而我太忙了，没有时间挨打。
Not today, Hades.
哈迪斯，今天不行。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life, Act 1, Icarus.
这就是美国生活，第一幕，伊卡洛斯。
So Pablo Manriquez, in Washington, DC, had received these art supplies, perhaps discarded by an Amazon package thief, or perhaps a gift from the gods.
华盛顿特区的巴勃罗·曼里克斯 (Pablo Manriquez) 收到了这些艺术用品，它们可能是亚马逊包裹窃贼丢弃的，也可能是上帝赐予的礼物。
And he figured, there's all these big egos in town who would love to be memorialized in oil portraits.
他想，镇上有很多自负的人都希望通过油画肖像来纪念他们。
Well, I could do that for them.
好吧，我可以为他们做这件事。
Even though Pablo himself had never painted a portrait in his life, or painted anything for that matter.
尽管巴勃罗本人一生中从未画过肖像，也从未画过任何与此相关的东西。
I had a clear vision in mind of what I needed to do.
我对自己需要做什么有一个清晰的愿景。
I needed to learn how to paint a face.
我需要学习如何画脸。
Politicians have them.
政客们有他们。
We can't sell a portrait without one.
没有肖像我们就无法出售肖像。
Pablo finds a YouTube channel called Paint Coach.
Pablo 找到了一个名为 Paint Coach 的 YouTube 频道。
It has a 10-minute crash course.
它有一个 10 分钟的速成课程。
He follows along.
他跟着。
He starts moving paint around on the canvas, and he's hooked.
他开始在画布上移动颜料，然后他就着迷了。
In his head, he's already competing with the legends who are hanging on walls around town.
在他的脑海里，他已经在与挂在镇上墙上的传奇人物竞争了。
He just needs a first subject to paint.
他只需要第一个绘画主题。
It's got to be someone widely recognizable, someone distinct and iconic.
这个人必须是广为人知、独特且具有标志性的人。
So he picks Mitch McConnell.
所以他选择了米奇·麦康奈尔。
He's always had super, super loyal staffers.
他总是拥有超级非常忠诚的员工。
I mean, I imagine he's-- according to his book, The Long Game, he's run out all his enemies and installed all of his friends.
我的意思是，我想他——根据他的书《漫长的游戏》，他已经消灭了所有的敌人并安置了所有的朋友。
So I was hoping to find Mitch McConnell fans to buy Mitch McConnell paintings.
所以我希望找到米奇·麦康奈尔的粉丝来购买米奇·麦康奈尔的画作。
Another thing I did, I looked up on Etsy, I looked up on the typical places where you would go to buy an oil painting, and I couldn't find any oil paintings of Mitch McConnell.
我做的另一件事是，我在 Etsy 上查找，在典型的购买油画的地方查找，但我找不到米奇·麦康奈尔 (Mitch McConnell) 的任何油画。
If I painted five paintings of Mitch McConnell in a week, I had the only five paintings of Mitch McConnell in existence for sale.
如果我在一周内画了五幅米奇·麦康奈尔的画作，那么我就拥有了仅有的五幅米奇·麦康奈尔的可供出售的画作。
Right?
正确的？
After a few tries, he gets one that looks enough like Mitch McConnell.
经过几次尝试，他得到了一个看起来很像米奇·麦康奈尔的。
So he posts a few pictures of his progress, and someone notices.
所以他发布了几张他的进步照片，有人注意到了。
The next day--
第二天——
I was walking through the Senate, and one of his aides kind of came out of the woodwork and was just like, hey, man, these paintings of our boss that you're posting on Instagram are really cool, but could you maybe paint him smiling?
我当时走过参议院，他的一位助手突然冒出来，说，嘿，伙计，你在 Instagram 上发布的我们老板的这些画真的很酷，但你能画他微笑吗？
I was just like, boom.
我当时就想，繁荣。
Hell yeah, I can paint him smiling.
是的，我可以画他微笑。
I can paint him smiling all day long.
我可以画他整天微笑。
Have you ever had a picture in your office of your boss smiling at you?
你的办公室里有没有过一张老板对你微笑的照片？
If you have, you might be living in a country where the name "leader" is preceded by "great" or "supreme." I'd like to take this moment to say, I am grateful to work here at This American Life, where the company reimburses half the cost of the smiling portrait of Ira that we are forced to hang in our offices.
如果有，那么您可能生活在一个“领导者”名字前面带有“伟大”或“至高无上”的国家。我想借此机会说，我很感激能在 This American Life 工作，公司报销了我们被迫在办公室悬挂的艾拉微笑肖像的一半费用。
Pablo delivers his first smiling Senator to Mitch McConnell's staffer.
巴勃罗将他的第一个微笑的参议员交给了米奇·麦康奈尔的幕僚。
And then he gets a request for another, and another.
然后他收到了一个又一个的请求。
He's 18 Mitch McConnells deep before he stops to catch his breath.
在他停下来喘口气之前，他已经深了 18 米奇·麦康奈尔 (Mitch McConnells)。
Were those Mitch McConnells-- in your opinion, were they good?
在你看来，米奇·麦康奈尔的那些人好吗？
I can't think of a single Mitch McConnell I ever did that was good.
我想不出我做过的哪一个米奇·麦康奈尔是好的。
But they were good enough.
但他们已经足够好了。
He sold the first small one for $25, the next one for $50.
他以 25 美元的价格卖掉了第一个小的，第二个则以 50 美元的价格出售。
Eventually, he settled on $500 for 24-by-36-inch paintings.
最终，他以 500 美元的价格购买了 24 x 36 英寸的画作。
Pablo is becoming a prolific painter.
巴勃罗正在成为一名多产的画家。
He paints Nancy Pelosi, Ilhan Omar, other politicians.
他为南希·佩洛西、伊尔汗·奥马尔和其他政治家画画。
He takes a commission for a lobbyist's dog.
他为一名游说者的狗收取佣金。
Just by his own force of personality, he's making it happen.
仅仅凭借他自己的个性力量，他就能实现这一目标。
At the State of the Union, Pablo set up an easel in Statuary Hall.
在国情咨文演讲中，巴勃罗在雕像厅设立了一个画架。
That's overlooking where all the members of Congress and the Supreme Court justices pass through.
这俯瞰了所有国会议员和最高法院法官经过的地方。
And Pablo, in his white painter's coat with headphones on, he captured the scene on canvas live.
巴勃罗穿着白色画家外套，戴着耳机，在画布上现场捕捉到了这一场景。
This is something that is a side project of yours?
这是你的副业项目吗？
C-span interviewed him as he painted.
C-span 在他作画时采访了他。
And then late last year, in December, he got a phone call from a friend's number, someone who used to be a policy advisor in the executive branch.
去年年底，也就是 12 月，他接到一个朋友的电话，这个朋友曾经是行政部门的政策顾问。
I picked up.
我接了起来。
And I was just like, hey, man, what do you need?
我当时就想，嘿，伙计，你需要什么？
I'm kind of busy.
我有点忙。
I hear on the other end of the line, hey, Pablo, you're a great artist.
我听到电话那头说，嘿，巴勃罗，你是一位伟大的艺术家。
This is Joe Biden.
这是乔·拜登。
I'm like, bull-[BLEEP], man.
我就像，公牛-[BLEEP]，伙计。
Very funny, right?
很有趣，对吧？
He's like, no, no, no, I'm serious.
他说，不，不，不，我是认真的。
Hey, Jill, put it on FaceTime.
嘿，吉尔，把它放到 FaceTime 上。
And bloop, bloop bloop.
还有布卢布，布卢布卢布。
The FaceTime noise plays.
播放 FaceTime 噪音。
And I'm looking at Dr. Jill Biden.
我正在看吉尔·拜登博士。
And I'm like, oh my God.
我想，天哪。
I'm so sorry, ma'am.
我很抱歉，女士。
I'm so sorry for cursing.
我很抱歉骂人。
I did not mean to say BS in front of you.
我不是故意在你面前说废话的。
Yeah, this is real.
是的，这是真的。
And she hands the phone back over to Joe Biden.
她把电话交还给乔·拜登。
And he was just like, you're a really good artist.
他就说，你真是一位优秀的艺术家。
This is a really great portrait of Jill and me.
这是吉尔和我的真实写照。
If you've been wondering what Joe Biden's been up to since leaving office, well, mystery solved.
如果你一直想知道乔·拜登卸任后在做什么，那么，谜团已经解决了。
He knew the photo that it came from.
他知道它来自那张照片。
It was from the 1970s, when they first met.
他们第一次见面是在 20 世纪 70 年代。
So it was an oil painting of them when they were young.
所以这是他们年轻时的一幅油画。
And I was on FaceTime with the president.
我和总统通过 FaceTime 通话。
There were probably 25 reporters in the press gallery filing their stories.
新闻席上大概有 25 名记者在报道他们的故事。
And pretty soon, they were all gathered around me.
很快，他们就都聚集到了我的周围。
And we were all talking to Joe Biden-- The Washington Post, the AP, the Bloomberg, HuffPost, were all talking-- and Fox News, Daily Caller, we're all looking into the camera and talking to Joe Biden.
我们都在与乔·拜登交谈——华盛顿邮报、美联社、彭博社、赫芬顿邮报都在谈论——福克斯新闻、每日来电，我们都在看着镜头与乔·拜登交谈。
And he's just telling everybody how bomb my painting is.
他只是告诉大家我的画有多棒。
I was like, that was awesome.
我当时想，那太棒了。
That was awesome.
太棒了。
This is the part of the story when Icarus, with wings cobbled together with wax and feathers, experiences the miracle of flight.
这就是故事的一部分，伊卡洛斯用蜡和羽毛拼凑而成的翅膀体验了飞行的奇迹。
Hey, I can see my Minotaur from here.
嘿，我可以从这里看到我的牛头怪。
Well, for many mortals, this level of success is thrilling and enough.
好吧，对于许多凡人来说，这种程度的成功是令人兴奋的，也足够了。
But not for Pablo.
但对巴勃罗来说则不然。
Pablo has a bigger goal.
巴勃罗有一个更大的目标。
He wants one of his paintings officially hung in the Capitol, approved by a committee and hung by an entity known as the architect of the Capitol, the only people allowed to drive a nail in the wall.
他希望他的一幅画能正式挂在国会大厦，并得到一个委员会的批准，并由一个被称为国会大厦建筑师的实体悬挂，而国会大厦建筑师是唯一被允许在墙上钉钉子的人。
Pablo wants to be immortalized in these halls of power.
巴勃罗希望在这些权力殿堂中永垂不朽。
I have no legacy.
我没有遗产。
Like, you know what I mean?
就像，你知道我的意思吗？
And while no one might remember any story I write ever, right, the painting will be there for centuries.
虽然没有人会记得我写过的任何故事，对吧，这幅画将在那里存在几个世纪。
Centuries, if it's on the wall.
几个世纪了，如果它挂在墙上的话。
Maybe you've been wondering this whole time, what do these paintings look like?
也许你一直想知道这些画是什么样子的？
So to be totally honest, Pablo has improved a lot.
所以说实话，巴勃罗进步了很多。
But he's doing work that looks like it's made by a talented art student, maybe a folk artist.
但他正在做的作品看起来像是由一位才华横溢的艺术学生创作的，也许是一位民间艺术家。
The colors are pleasing.
颜色令人愉悦。
You can always tell who it is he's painting.
你总能看出他画的是谁。
But it's not, you know, John Trumbull's painting of the founders signing the Declaration of Independence, or any of the other museum grade paintings hanging in the Capitol rotunda.
但这不是约翰·特朗布尔（John Trumbull）签署《独立宣言》的创始人的画作，也不是国会大厦圆形大厅中悬挂的任何其他博物馆级别的画作。
Of course, that does not stop Pablo, and a couple of months ago, he saw a way to make his dream happen.
当然，这并不能阻止巴勃罗，几个月前，他找到了实现梦想的方法。
In February, the House voted to rename the press gallery after Frederick Douglass, who, among many other things, was also the first Black reporter to cover the Capitol.
二月，众议院投票决定以弗雷德里克·道格拉斯（Frederick Douglass）的名字重新命名记者席，除其他事项外，道格拉斯也是第一位报道国会大厦的黑人记者。
There was going to be a renaming ceremony and press conference.
将会举行更名仪式和新闻发布会。
Well, it just so happened that Pablo had made a portrait of Frederick Douglass.
好吧，碰巧巴勃罗为弗雷德里克·道格拉斯画了一幅肖像。
It had been leaning against the wall in the press gallery for the last two years.
过去两年来，它一直靠在新闻发布厅的墙上。
So Pablo quickly hatched a plan.
于是巴勃罗很快就制定了一个计划。
He's going to grab his painting, sneak his painting into the room where the ceremony is going to take place, and slip it onto a table where everyone can see it.
他要抓起他的画，将他的画偷偷带进要举行仪式的房间，然后把它放在每个人都能看到的桌子上。
I scoped out the room.
我环视了房间。
I was like, oh, there are artifacts about Frederick Douglass here.
我当时想，哦，这里有关于弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的文物。
Like, there was this ledger of sales and stuff like that under glass.
比如，玻璃下面有销售分类账之类的东西。
I was like, I'm going to go grab my painting and put it on the table.
我当时想，我要去拿我的画，把它放在桌子上。
And I did.
我做到了。
It's like a pop art portrait of Frederick Douglass with a yellow background, like a distinct yellow background.
它就像弗雷德里克·道格拉斯（Frederick Douglass）的波普艺术肖像，带有黄色背景，就像一个独特的黄色背景。
It's a pretty big canvas, nearly life-sized.
这是一块相当大的画布，几乎是真人大小的。
And it sticks out compared to, say, the items on loan from the Library of Congress.
与从国会图书馆借出的物品相比，它显得尤为突出。
But nobody says anything.
但没有人说什么。
Then the VIPs come in.
然后贵宾进来。
There's the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, Representative Byron Donalds, the bill's sponsor.
其中包括众议院议长迈克·约翰逊、众议员拜伦·唐纳德（该法案的发起人）。
And there's even a living descendant of Frederick Douglass.
甚至还有弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的后裔。
Traditionally, at a press conference like this, the press are there to cover the event, not insert themselves into it.
传统上，在这样的新闻发布会上，媒体的作用是报道事件，而不是介入其中。
But Pablo is Pablo.
但巴勃罗就是巴勃罗。
And when Mike Johnson came in, I showed it to him.
当迈克·约翰逊进来时，我向他展示了它。
I showed it to Byron Donalds.
我把它拿给拜伦·唐纳德斯看。
He's like, oh, yeah, there.
他就像，哦，是的，在那里。
And that's when Frederick Douglass's grandson was like, that's great, that's great.
就在那时，弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的孙子说，那太棒了，那太棒了。
Probably not grandson.
应该不是孙子吧
Pablo Manriquez And then he kept walking.
巴勃罗·曼里克斯 然后他继续走。
I was like, OK, so Frederick Douglass's grandson is cool with this.
我当时想，好吧，弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的孙子对此很满意。
Byron Donalds is cool with this.
拜伦·唐纳德斯对此很冷静。
Speaker Johnson is cool with this.
约翰逊议长对此很冷静。
He gets a selfie with the lawmakers and his painting.
他与立法者和他的画作自拍。
Everybody loves the painting.
每个人都喜欢这幅画。
So let's get it hung on the wall officially.
那么让我们把它正式挂在墙上吧。
To do that, Pablo just needs the permission of something called the Standing Committee of Correspondents.
为此，巴勃罗只需要获得记者常务委员会的许可即可。
These are a group of Pablo's own peers, other working journalists.
这些人是巴勃罗自己的同事，其他在职记者。
So he writes them a letter, donating his painting to the committee and asking that they hang it in the newly-named Frederick Douglass Press Gallery.
于是他给他们写了一封信，将自己的画作捐赠给委员会，并要求他们将其挂在新命名的弗雷德里克·道格拉斯出版社画廊中。
A couple weeks later, the Standing Committee of Correspondents meet.
几周后，记者常务委员会召开会议。
The first new business on the agenda that day is to take a vote regarding artwork.
当天议程上的第一个新事务是对艺术品进行投票。
And they voted no. They said no. I was just like, oh.
他们投了反对票。他们说不。我当时就想，哦。
I still don't know exactly why.
我仍然不知道到底为什么。
Did you ask any of them?
你问过他们中的任何一个吗？
Pablo Manriquez No.
巴勃罗·曼里克斯 No.
Pablo was not discouraged by this decision.
巴勃罗并没有因这个决定而气馁。
Of course he wasn't.
当然他不是。
He was like, well, if they don't like this Frederick Douglass, I'm going to make them a much bigger Frederick Douglass.
他说，好吧，如果他们不喜欢这个弗雷德里克·道格拉斯，我会让他们成为一个更大的弗雷德里克·道格拉斯。
And if they don't like that, I'll paint a smaller one.
如果他们不喜欢，我就画一个小一点的。
And I'll keep painting and donating Frederick Douglasses until the dam breaks and they all go up.
我将继续绘画并捐赠弗雷德里克·道格拉斯，直到大坝决堤，它们全部上涨。
I thought that sounded like a lot of work, at least more than asking them why they said no.
我认为这听起来像是很多工作，至少比问他们为什么拒绝要多。
So I reached out and got hold of the meeting minutes.
于是我伸出手来，拿到了会议纪要。
The problem was not about the size or the quality or anything like that.
问题不在于尺寸或质量或类似的问题。
The problem was that Pablo had crossed a line.
问题是巴勃罗已经越界了。
The thing that they voted on wasn't at all about your painting, but a broad rule that would apply to all future situations.
他们投票的内容根本与你的画无关，而是适用于未来所有情况的广泛规则。
What was the rule, don't bring a painting?
规则是什么，不能带画？
No, it's not, don't bring a painting.
不，不是，不要带画。
Is that no credentialed reporter will be able to make artwork that hangs on the walls of the Capitol.
没有任何有资格的记者能够制作悬挂在国会大厦墙上的艺术品。
Is this the first time you're hearing that?
这是您第一次听说吗？
Yeah.
是的。
It was a 4-to-1 vote.
这是 4 比 1 的投票结果。
And how does that make you feel?
这让你感觉如何？
Kind of sad.
有点悲伤。
Ike Sriskandarajah According to a statement from the Standing Committee, they were worried about what precedent it would set, what conflicts of interests hanging his painting could cause.
艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾(Ike Sriskandarajah) 根据常委会的一份声明，他们担心这会开创什么先例，悬挂他的画可能会引起什么利益冲突。
And Pablo hadn't gotten permission from the event organizers to put his painting into their event.
巴勃罗没有得到活动组织者的许可，无法将他的画作放入他们的活动中。
Icarus, son of Daedalus, soaring over the Isle, was enthralled by his own new ability.
代达罗斯的儿子伊卡洛斯在岛上翱翔，他被自己的新能力迷住了。
He couldn't help wanting to go higher.
他忍不住想要走得更高。
Pablo, son of Luis, didn't want to only stay in the back of the press conference with the other scribes.
路易斯的儿子巴勃罗不想只和其他抄写员一起留在新闻发布会的后面。
Couldn't this event to honor Frederick Douglass also honor Pablo, too?
这次纪念弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的活动难道不能同时纪念巴勃罗吗？
Maybe if he'd asked permission, gone through channels, this all might have worked out differently.
也许如果他征得许可，通过渠道，这一切可能会有不同的结果。
I floated that idea by Pablo.
我是巴勃罗提出这个想法的。
Was there another way to do it?
还有其他方法吗？
Yeah.
是的。
But I still think this was the best way.
但我仍然认为这是最好的方法。
Even when you're thinking about it now, reflecting on it?
即使你现在正在思考它，反思它？
Yeah, because humility could not possibly have created that scenario to begin with.
是的，因为谦卑一开始就不可能创造出这种情况。
At every point along the way, it was driven by ego.
一路上的每一点，它都是由自我驱动的。
A lot of it was ego.
很多都是自我。
Pablo Manriquez Maybe like 91%, 92%.
巴勃罗·曼里克斯 也许像 91%、92%。
I definitely wake up every morning excited to be Pablo Manriquez.
每天早上我醒来都会为成为巴勃罗·曼里克斯而感到兴奋。
Ego-- it's what makes you pick up a box of stolen art supplies and think, without any experience, I will be a transformational force in the US Capitol.
自我——它让你拿起一盒偷来的艺术用品，并认为，在没有任何经验的情况下，我将成为美国国会大厦的一股变革力量。
But it's also ego that propels you to the front of a press conference, with your painting under your arm, and sends you crashing back to Earth.
但也正是自我将你推到新闻发布会的前面，腋下夹着你的画，然后让你摔回地球。
The Potomac is lousy with wax and feathers.
波托马克河上的蜡和羽毛很糟糕。
A couple hours after we talk, Pablo sends me a note.
我们交谈几个小时后，巴勃罗给我发了一张便条。
He's back in the Capitol.
他回到了国会大厦。
He says, for the first time, he feels small in this place that once made him feel big.
他说，在这个曾经让他感到伟大的地方，他第一次感到自己的渺小。
The next day, he sends me another note.
第二天，他又给我发了一张纸条。
He sounds like himself again.
他听起来又像他自己了。
He figured it out.
他想通了。
He's launching his campaign to run for Standing Committee.
他正在发起竞选常委的活动。
But luckily, I'm not eligible to run for the Standing Committee for at least another year, if not two.
但幸运的是，我至少还有一年（甚至两年）没有资格竞选常委。
So I decided that, while I can't be on the ballot until probably 2028, I am going to start campaigning on Monday.
所以我决定，虽然我可能要到 2028 年才能参加投票，但我将从周一开始竞选活动。
So I registered the domain dailypressgallery.com, and I started writing an agenda.
所以我注册了 dailypressgallery.com 域名，并开始编写议程。
Part of my agenda is, of course, to repeal the prohibition that they put on journalist art in the Capitol.
当然，我议程的一部分是废除国会大厦对新闻艺术的禁令。
You never hear about Icarus the next day.
第二天你就再也不会听说伊卡洛斯了。
Did you know he just made some small adjustments to his wings and headed right back for the sun?
你知道他只是对翅膀做了一些小调整，然后就飞回了太阳吗？
If you want to see Pablo's paintings or follow his campaign for Standing Committee, he's at Pablo.Manriquez on Instagram.
如果您想欣赏 Pablo 的画作或关注他的常务委员会竞选活动，请访问 Instagram 上的 Pablo.Manriquez。
You know how in Greek mythology there's Hades, where everyone goes when they die?
你知道希腊神话中有一个地狱，每个人死后都会去那里吗？
You gotta cross the River Styx to get there.
你必须穿过冥河才能到达那里。
And then there's this gate with this three-headed dog, Cerberus.
还有这扇门，里面有一只三头狗，塞伯鲁斯。
He's guarding the entrance, and he's supposed to make sure only actually dead people enter.
他守卫着入口，他应该确保只有真正死去的人才能进入。
This story is about a real person in America who stood at those very gates, which is not the easiest job, it turns out.
这个故事是关于一个站在美国门口的真实人物的故事，事实证明，这并不是最容易的工作。
At least not right now.
至少现在不是。
Nadia Reiman talked to him about it.
纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 与他谈论了此事。
When Jeremiah Schofield started working at the Social Security Administration, the SSA, the first thing his boss said to him was, if you're looking up your ex's records, your own records, or looking up someone famous, don't.
当耶利米·斯科菲尔德开始在社会保障管理局（SSA）工作时，他的老板对他说的第一句话是，如果你要查找你前任的记录、你自己的记录，或者查找某个名人，就不要查找。
We will know.
我们会知道的。
Then they made him read Title V of the US Code Section 552a, The Privacy Act, the actual legal text of it.
然后他们让他阅读美国法典第 552a 条第五章《隐私法》，即该法案的实际法律文本。
That's how much they wanted to drive the point home.
这就是他们多么想把这一点讲清楚。
The Social Security Administration is the caretaker of these truly massive databases of personal information.
社会保障管理局是这些真正庞大的个人信息数据库的管理者。
They use it to send Social Security checks, disability payments.
他们用它来发送社会保障支票和伤残津贴。
And in order to do that accurately, given how there's over 300 million of us, they keep master files.
为了准确地做到这一点，考虑到我们有 3 亿多人口，他们保留了主文件。
Jeremiah says they have all sorts of information from all sorts of moments in your life-- where you were born, your Social Security number, your mom's maiden name, your citizenship status, all of it stored in giant files.
耶利米说，他们拥有来自你生命中各个时刻的各种信息——你出生的地方、你的社会安全号码、你母亲的婚前姓氏、你的公民身份，所有这些都存储在巨大的文件中。
Your master earnings files will show every job that you ever worked at.
您的主收入文件将显示您曾经从事过的每项工作。
And it would show how much money you made at all of those different jobs.
它会显示你在所有这些不同的工作中赚了多少钱。
Every job people have had?
人们从事过的每项工作？
Jeremiah Schofield Yep.
耶利米·斯科菲尔德 是的。
And then you have the disability control file, which actually gets into disability-related information.
然后你就有了残疾控制文件，它实际上包含了与残疾相关的信息。
That's for people who collect disability.
那是为那些收集残疾的人准备的。
Things like what your disability-- there's listings of codes for if you have cancer or if you have some other type of ailment.
例如您的残疾情况，如果您患有癌症或其他类型的疾病，则有代码列表。
And so it would have all of that information in it.
所以它会包含所有这些信息。
So it's very sensitive information.
所以这是非常敏感的信息。
At Social Security, we've always treated those records as though they're things that they cannot be let out to anybody.
在社会保障局，我们一直将这些记录视为不能泄露给任何人的东西。
Like, they contain people's whole lives, basically.
就像，它们基本上包含了人们的整个生活。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Very sensitive moments in their lives.
他们生活中非常敏感的时刻。
The point of the many rules governing these lists and files is not just privacy, though.
不过，管理这些列表和文件的许多规则的目的不仅仅是隐私。
It's about making sure all this information is used only for its intended purpose, by the book.
这是为了确保所有这些信息仅用于本书的预期目的。
And Jeremiah, from what I can tell, is a by-the-book kind of guy.
据我所知，耶利米是一个循规蹈矩的人。
There's one database with arguably more power than the others and a name to match.
有一个数据库可以说比其他数据库更强大，而且名称也与之匹配。
It's called the Death Master File.
它被称为“死亡大师档案”。
It's a master list of all the dead.
这是所有死者的总名单。
Well, all the deaths recorded since the dawn of Social Security.
好吧，这是自社会保障制度诞生以来记录的所有死亡人数。
It has millions and millions of names.
它有数以百万计的名字。
People get added to it when they die, their name and their date of death.
人们死后会被添加到其中，包括他们的名字和死亡日期。
If you get accidentally added to it when you are not dead, it can mess up your Social Security payments, sure, but also your bank accounts, all kinds of things.
如果你在还没有死的时候不小心被添加到其中，它肯定会弄乱你的社会保障付款，还会弄乱你的银行账户，等等。
So Jeremiah and everyone treated this one with extreme care.
所以耶利米和大家都非常小心地对待这个人。
And one day, Jeremiah says, he was summoned to a meeting.
耶利米说，有一天，他被召集去参加一个会议。
And the first thing he sees when he enters the meeting room, handwritten on all these whiteboards, are the names of all these databases, including the Death Master File.
当他进入会议室时，他首先看到的所有这些白板上都手写着所有这些数据库的名称，包括死亡主档案。
The whole meeting was kind of strange, actually.
事实上，整个会议有点奇怪。
Jeremiah was a boss.
耶利米是一位老板。
At this point, he had been there 25 years, his first proper adult job.
此时，他已经在那里工作了 25 年，这是他第一份正式的成年工作。
So he'd been to a lot of meetings, but none like this.
他参加过很多会议，但没有一次像这样。
It was not put on the official calendar, and the whole thing was very secretive.
它没有被列入官方日历，整个事情非常秘密。
It was in a half-used office building.
那是在一栋闲置了一半的办公楼里。
There was a guard in the hallway, almost like a bouncer.
走廊里有一名警卫，几乎就像保镖一样。
And in the room, three people with non-government laptops.
房间里三个人拿着非政府笔记本电脑。
This was February of last year.
这是去年二月的事。
And these guys, they worked for DOGE, so-called Department of Government Efficiency, headed by Elon Musk.
这些人为 DOGE（即所谓的政府效率部）工作，由埃隆·马斯克领导。
In the meeting, Jeremiah makes some proposals, some ways Social Security can be more efficient, better IT to update these lists quicker.
在会议上，Jeremiah 提出了一些建议，一些社会保障可以通过更高效、更好的 IT 方式来更快地更新这些列表。
But he's almost instantly interrupted by one of the DOGE guys, Antonio Gracias, a venture capitalist, now Team Elon.
但他几乎立刻就被 DOGE 成员安东尼奥·格拉西亚斯 (Antonio Gracias) 打断了，他是一位风险投资家，现在是埃隆团队 (Team Elon)。
And within two minutes, Mr. Gracias had shut down the conversation and said, we're here to talk about Social Security fraud.
两分钟之内，格拉西亚斯先生就结束了谈话，并说，我们来这里是为了讨论社会保障欺诈问题。
And we're looking for a big win.
我们正在寻求一场大胜利。
And I said, well, a big win?
我说，好吧，一场大胜利？
I mean, I have millions of dollars in potential savings by doing these new IT systems.
我的意思是，通过使用这些新的 IT 系统，我可以节省数百万美元。
And he said he was only willing to go to the president with a big win of-- he said $50 billion savings.
他说他只愿意在赢得 500 亿美元的节省后才愿意去见总统。
What did you say?
你说什么？
Jeremiah Schofield Well, what I said was that I don't think you're going to find $50 billion in fraud.
Jeremiah Schofield 嗯，我想说的是，我认为你不会发现 500 亿美元的欺诈行为。
Around this time, Elon Musk announced on X that they might have found some fraud.
大约在这个时候，埃隆·马斯克在 X 上宣布他们可能发现了一些欺诈行为。
The fraud was related to the Death Master File.
这起诈骗案与死亡主档案有关。
Musk was pointing to a problem with it, namely that there were people who were clearly dead who were not in it, people who seem to be 150 years old, according to other Social Security databases.
马斯克指出了其中的一个问题，即根据其他社会保障数据库的数据，有些人显然已经死亡，但实际上并不在其中，这些人似乎已经 150 岁了。
He posted, quote, "Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security." He even brought it up in the Oval Office with President Trump, before the cameras.
他发帖称，“也许《暮光之城》是真实的，而且有很多吸血鬼在领取社会保障金。”他甚至在椭圆形办公室与特朗普总统在镜头前提起了这件事。
Now, do you know anyone who's 150?
现在，你认识 150 岁的人吗？
I don't.
我不知道。
OK?
好的？
They should be on the Guinness Book of World Records.
他们应该被载入吉尼斯世界纪录。
They're missing out.
他们错过了。
Jeremiah saw all this.
耶利米看到了这一切。
Jeremiah Schofield So in layman's terms, I was pissed off that our leaders in the country were saying this.
耶利米·斯科菲尔德（Jeremiah Schofield）用外行的话来说，我对我们国家的领导人这么说感到愤怒。
And it was infuriating.
这令人愤怒。
Jeremiah was pissed off because, in layman's terms, [BLEEP]'s complicated.
耶利米很生气，因为用外行的话来说，[BLEEP] 很复杂。
It's true that there were some people who appeared to be 150 not marked as dead, but the Social Security Administration knew that already.
确实，有些人看似 150 岁，但并未被标记为死亡，但社会保障管理局已经知道了这一点。
And they knew why.
他们知道为什么。
Sometimes the death of a person born in 1875 or whatever didn't get reported to the SSA.
有时，1875 年出生的人的死亡或其他任何情况都没有报告给 SSA。
And without an official death date, that person didn't go on the Death Master File.
如果没有正式的死亡日期，这个人就不会被记录在死亡主档案中。
Regardless, there was a whole system in place to make sure Social Security payments did not go out to these people.
无论如何，有一整套系统可以确保社会保障金不会流向这些人。
Because when someone is over 100, the Social Security Administration actually contacts them to make sure they're still alive.
因为当某人超过 100 岁时，社会保障管理局实际上会联系他们以确保他们还活着。
And so we have different groupings of technicians within the agency that literally make phone calls to these folks, and in some cases go to people's houses just to make sure-- hey, Jeremiah is over 100 years old.
因此，我们机构内有不同的技术人员小组，他们确实给这些人打电话，在某些情况下还去人们的家中只是为了确保——嘿，耶利米已经 100 多岁了。
Let's make sure that he's still living and that he's receiving the benefits that he needs to.
让我们确保他还活着并且正在接受他需要的福利。
He says some of these 100-plus year olds are happy to have a visitor.
他说，其中一些 100 多岁的老人很高兴有访客来访。
Others are like, go away, of course I'm alive.
其他人则说，走开，我当然还活着。
And if there's any fraud, anyone taking in a paycheck for a dead relative, the SSA would catch it.
如果有任何欺诈行为，任何人收受死去亲人的薪水，社会保障局都会抓获。
Plus, the SSA had already tried to clean up the Death Master File, specifically chasing down death dates for these 150-plus year olds.
另外，SSA 已经尝试清理死亡主档案，专门追查这些 150 多岁老人的死亡日期。
But it took a lot of time and resources, and it didn't save the government any money, because it's not like the SSA had been sending checks to these dead people.
但这花费了大量的时间和资源，而且没有为政府节省任何金钱，因为 SSA 并没有给这些死者寄支票。
So the opposite of efficiency.
所以与效率相反。
But DOGE still pressed on.
但 DOGE 仍然坚持不懈。
They wanted Jeremiah's team to mark these apparent 150-year-olds as dead and mark them now.
他们希望耶利米的团队将这些看似已经 150 岁的老人标记为已故，并立即标记他们。
Just populate the sensitive list with random death dates, which was totally unheard of.
只需用随机的死亡日期填充敏感列表，这是完全闻所未闻的。
And it made Jeremiah a little nervous It seemed like a bad precedent because, remember, if you make a mistake in the Death Master File, say, mark someone dead who isn't, it's not just their Social Security that gets shut off.
这让耶利米有点紧张，这似乎是一个糟糕的先例，因为，记住，如果你在死亡主档案中犯了一个错误，比如说，将一个没有死亡的人标记为死亡，那么不仅仅是他们的社会保障被关闭。
Anything tied to their Social Security number is now bricked.
任何与他们的社会安全号码相关的东西现在都被砖砌了。
The person finds out, often in pretty dramatic fashion, that they have been killed off by accident.
这个人常常以相当戏剧性的方式发现他们被意外杀死了。
Like, they go to the grocery store, they try to pay with their credit card, and it doesn't work.
比如，他们去杂货店，尝试用信用卡付款，但没用。
Then they try to pay with another credit card.
然后他们尝试用另一张信用卡付款。
Same thing.
同样的事情。
So they go home and call the bank.
于是他们回家给银行打电话。
And they're like, what's going on?
他们就像，发生了什么事？
And they would have been directed to go to Social Security to fix the problem.
他们会被指示去社会保障局来解决这个问题。
Could they have access to their money in their bank accounts or no?
他们是否可以使用银行账户中的资金？
The bank accounts would have been frozen.
银行账户将被冻结。
Oh my God.
我的天啊。
So it's not even that they can't use credit cards.
所以他们并不是不能使用信用卡。
They can't take money that they have in the bank out of the bank at all.
他们根本无法将银行里的钱从银行取出。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Everything just stops because everybody thinks that the person is deceased.
一切都停止了，因为每个人都认为这个人已经死了。
It's a mess.
真是一团糟。
And now here was DOGE, insisting Jeremiah's team marked these 150-plus year olds as dead.
现在 DOGE 来了，坚持要耶利米的团队将这些 150 多岁的老人标记为死亡。
Jeremiah was like, OK, I know we don't have physical proof, but if the date of birth is right, logic says these people are for sure dead.
耶利米说，好吧，我知道我们没有实物证据，但如果出生日期是正确的，逻辑上说这些人肯定已经死了。
So it didn't seem that risky.
所以看起来并没有那么危险。
They did it methodically, carefully, to avoid making mistakes.
他们做得有条不紊、小心翼翼，以避免犯错误。
But ultimately, they put in fake death dates for all those people.
但最终，他们为所有这些人设定了虚假的死亡日期。
Jeremiah didn't like it, but he did it anyway.
耶利米不喜欢这样，但他还是这么做了。
This fixation with the Death Master File, little did Jeremiah know it was just beginning.
耶利米对死亡大师档案的迷恋并不知道这才刚刚开始。
A few weeks after the 150-year-olds, Jeremiah says his higher-ups contacted him with a request from DHS, the Department of Homeland Security.
耶利米说，在 150 岁生日几周后，他的上级根据国土安全部的要求联系了他。
And this request was unlike anything Jeremiah had seen in his more than 20 years at the agency.
这个要求与耶利米在该机构工作 20 多年以来所见过的任何要求都不一样。
I got a request from the Deputy Commissioner for Operations, my boss, and said, we have a listing of a little over 6,000 people.
我收到了我的老板、运营副专员的请求，并说，我们的名单上有 6,000 多人。
You need to come up with a strategy on how we're going to kill off these 6,000 folks, a listing we had received from DHS.
你需要制定一个策略，告诉我们如何消灭这 6,000 人，这是我们从国土安全部收到的清单。
Kill off?
杀掉？
Like-- Jeremiah Schofield Yeah, DHS had sent us a list.
就像 - Jeremiah Schofield 是的，国土安全部给我们发了一份名单。
And the expectation was is that we add a date of death for these individuals.
我们的期望是为这些人添加死亡日期。
To add these 6,000 or so names to the Death Master File.
将这6000个左右的名字添加到死亡主档案中。
It was strange because, normally, deaths are reported by funeral homes or family members or some state authority.
这很奇怪，因为通常情况下，死亡是由殡仪馆、家庭成员或某些国家当局报告的。
And also, there was no indication from DHS that these people were dead.
而且，国土安全部没有迹象表明这些人已经死亡。
They just said, add these people to this list.
他们只是说，将这些人添加到这个列表中。
So Jeremiah and his colleagues were trying to figure out, what's going on, and why these 6,000 in particular?
因此，耶利米和他的同事们试图弄清楚到底发生了什么，以及为什么这 6,000 人特别如此？
Like, oh, is a pattern here?
就像，哦，这里有一个模式吗？
Is it all people from one area of the country?
都是来自该国某一地区的人吗？
There was nothing like that that you were able to see.
你看不到任何类似的东西。
I did not see it.
我没有看到。
But there were conversations that happened.
但确实发生了一些对话。
And the conversations that happened around the agency indicated that it was mostly Hispanic last names.
该机构周围发生的谈话表明，其中大部分是西班牙裔姓氏。
DHS also sent a memo from then-Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, about, quote, "suspected terrorists" who she said had Social Security numbers and access to our financial system.
国土安全部还发送了时任国土安全部部长克里斯蒂·诺姆的一份备忘录，其中提到了“可疑的恐怖分子”，她说这些人拥有社会安全号码并可以进入我们的金融系统。
She asked the SSA to stop it in a way that was, quote, "consistent with law." Jeremiah was pretty sure none of this request to mark 6,000 people as dead was lawful.
她要求 SSA 以“符合法律”的方式阻止这一行为。耶利米非常确定将 6,000 人标记为死亡的请求都不合法。
No proof of death, for one thing.
一方面，没有死亡证明。
So he says, he goes and asks someone at the Social Security office of General Counsel, the lawyers, who tell him, yes, it is illegal.
所以他说，他去询问总法律顾问社会保障办公室的某个人，即律师，他们告诉他，是的，这是非法的。
The illegal part of it is is making them all dead.
非法的部分是让他们全部死亡。
You can't just make anybody dead that's not dead.
你不能随便让一个没死的人死。
That's against the law.
这是违法的。
So Jeremiah and his team refuse.
所以耶利米和他的团队拒绝了。
But then, within a couple of days, they start getting some strange reports from the field offices, workers calling in saying, what's going on?
但几天之内，他们开始从现场办公室收到一些奇怪的报告，工作人员打电话来说，发生了什么事？
People are showing up here saying we marked them as dead.
人们出现在这里说我们将他们标记为死亡。
They're definitely not dead.
他们绝对没有死。
I'm like, did somebody process these 6,000 deaths?
我想，有人处理过这 6,000 例死亡事件吗？
And we started to ask around the agency at headquarters, and we found out that there was staff in the Office of Chief Information Officer that had posted the dates of death.
我们开始询问总部的机构，发现首席信息官办公室的工作人员已经公布了死亡日期。
He knew the Chief Information Officer staff did it because that was the only office that could process these deaths the way they were processed, all at once.
他知道首席信息官的工作人员这样做是因为这是唯一一个能够同时处理这些死亡事件的办公室。
Jeremiah says all 6,000-some people had been marked as having died on a single day, March 8, 2025.
耶利米说，2025 年 3 月 8 日这一天，所有 6,000 多人都被标记为死亡。
He couldn't believe they had done this.
他不敢相信他们竟然这么做了。
I mean, by the agency choosing to do this, we just took a list without any documentation, and we posted these 6,000 deaths.
我的意思是，选择这样做的机构，我们只是拿了一份没有任何文件的名单，然后我们公布了这 6,000 人的死亡情况。
That could have happened to anybody.
这可能发生在任何人身上。
And within 48 hours, that anybody would have had their lives halted until they could fix it.
48 小时之内，任何人的生活都会停止，直到他们能解决问题。
And it's possible they could fix it in a few days.
他们可能会在几天内修复它。
Or there's been cases where we've seen where it takes months or even a year to fix all of the little things that get screwed up because you got your name on the Death Master File.
或者在某些情况下，我们看到需要几个月甚至一年的时间才能修复所有搞砸的小事情，因为你的名字出现在死亡主档案上。
The process of getting resurrected-- that's what they call it when you're accidentally killed in the Death Master File and need to be brought back to life-- it's not simple.
复活的过程——这就是当你在死亡主档案中意外死亡并需要复活时的说法——并不简单。
You have to go into your Social Security office in person and prove you're alive.
您必须亲自前往社会保障办公室并证明您还活着。
And sometimes it takes multiple visits, as you keep encountering new corners of your life where some institution or other is still convinced you're dead.
有时需要多次访问，因为你不断遇到生活中的新角落，而某些机构或其他机构仍然确信你已经死了。
Jeremiah doesn't tell the field offices that the 6,000 or so were secretly killed by the Chief Information Officer's office, or that DHS requested it.
耶利米没有告诉外地办事处，这 6,000 人左右是被首席信息官办公室秘密杀害的，也没有告诉国土安全部要求这样做。
He's like, let's not dwell on the mess.
他说，我们不要再纠结于混乱了。
Let's just fix it.
让我们修复它。
And let's fix it the way we normally would, as any other mistake in the Death Master File.
让我们像平常一样修复它，就像死亡主文件中的任何其他错误一样。
Which meant it was up to each one of these 6,000 or so people to come into their local field office and prove they're alive.
这意味着这 6,000 人左右的每一个人都必须进入当地的现场办公室并证明自己还活着。
We saw 30 resurrections happen pretty quickly.
我们很快就看到了 30 次复活。
And then that number quickly grew within a few weeks to 300 resurrections.
然后这个数字在几周内迅速增长到 300 次复活。
So that's what was happening on the ground.
这就是实地发生的情况。
Meanwhile, from above--
与此同时，从上面——
We were getting pressure to say, we told you to kill off the 6,000.
我们受到压力说，我们告诉过你杀掉那 6,000 人。
We want the 6,000 to remain dead.
我们希望这 6,000 人继续死去。
DHS was telling you that they wanted the 6,000 to remain dead.
国土安全部告诉您，他们希望 6,000 人继续死亡。
That's right.
这是正确的。
And it was coming down from pretty high up leadership.
这是来自相当高层的领导。
When these 6,000 fake deaths happened, The Washington Post found out and published a big story.
当这6000起假死亡事件发生时，《华盛顿邮报》发现并发表了一篇大报道。
So did The New York Times.
《纽约时报》也是如此。
So as the news breaks, Jeremiah is also dealing with the chaotic media fallout of this.
因此，随着消息传出，耶利米也在应对由此带来的混乱媒体影响。
And then something bigger happens.
然后更大的事情发生了。
And this part of the story has not been out there before.
这部分故事以前从未出现过。
Jeremiah is the first person to talk about it.
耶利米是第一个谈论这个问题的人。
So then fast forward a few weeks, and a new request comes in to kill off a new grouping of people.
然后快进几周，一个新的请求出现，要杀死一群新的人。
The new request from DHS is for 2.7 million names.
国土安全部的新要求是提供 270 万个姓名。
DHS wants the SSA to kill off 2.7 million people, like an entire city, mark them all as dead in the Death Master File.
国土安全部希望 SSA 杀死 270 万人，就像杀死整个城市一样，并在死亡主档案中将他们全部标记为死亡。
Again, like last time, no sign or pretense that they're for real dead.
再次，就像上次一样，没有迹象或假装他们真的死了。
DHS tells Jeremiah's team that these 2.7 million are here illegally, and also--
国土安全部告诉耶利米的团队，这 270 万人是非法入境的，而且——
These folks were violent criminals and suspected terrorists.
这些人是暴力犯罪分子和恐怖分子嫌疑人。
But, wait, they told you there were 2.7 million violent criminals and terrorists?
但是，等等，他们告诉你有 270 万暴力犯罪分子和恐怖分子？
That's a lot of violent criminals and suspected terrorists.
其中有很多暴力犯罪分子和恐怖分子嫌疑人。
It is.
这是。
We were pretty suspect about this 2.7 million list.
我们对这份 270 万份名单非常怀疑。
And so when it came in, we also thought it was a pretty big number.
所以当它进来时，我们也认为这是一个相当大的数字。
And we wondered whether or not the list was accurate.
我们想知道这个列表是否准确。
Last time this happened, when Jeremiah said, wait a minute, these people are alive, that didn't stop the SSA from marking them as dead.
上次发生这种情况时，当耶利米说，等一下，这些人还活着时，这并没有阻止 SSA 将他们标记为死亡。
So this time he tries something different.
所以这一次他尝试了一些不同的东西。
He decides to fact check the claims DHS made about the 2.7 million.
他决定对国土安全部关于这 270 万人的说法进行事实核查。
They can't look at all 2.7 million people.
他们无法看到全部 270 万人。
Privacy concerns, and also, the number is so large.
隐私问题，而且数量如此之大。
But they do get permission to look at a random sample from the list, 25 people.
但他们确实获得了从名单中随机抽取 25 人的许可。
They check what they can.
他们会尽其所能地进行检查。
And so we went through to check one, are they dead?
所以我们去检查了一下，他们死了吗？
Two, are they here legally or not legally?
第二，他们是合法的还是非法的？
And what is their current status?
而他们目前的状况又如何呢？
When Jeremiah's team ran the numbers, they found that all 25 from the sample were alive.
当 Jeremiah 的团队计算数据时，他们发现样本中的 25 个人全部存活。
And what's more--
更重要的是——
When we went through the 25 records, we found 23 of them were records where people were either US citizens or lawful permanent resident or were here legally.
当我们查看这 25 条记录时，我们发现其中 23 条记录中的人要么是美国公民，要么是合法永久居民，要么是合法居留。
And then there were two that more investigation needed to occur because it appeared as though that their alien status had expired.
还有两人需要进行更多调查，因为他们的外国人身份似乎已经过期。
So, alive.
所以，活着。
And also, most of them clearly in the country legally.
而且，他们中的大多数人显然在该国是合法的。
Here's what else he remembers from the sample.
这是他从样本中记得的其他内容。
But I do remember that it did span a pretty big age community.
但我确实记得它确实跨越了一个相当大的年龄社区。
So it was children all the way up to people in their 70s.
所以从儿童一直到 70 多岁的人。
There's a couple of cases that I remember that we just thought were super curious.
我记得有几个案例我们只是觉得非常好奇。
There were some teenagers on the list.
名单上有一些青少年。
And we're like, OK, so teenagers are suspected terrorists and violent criminals?
我们想，好吧，那么青少年被怀疑是恐怖分子和暴力犯罪分子？
I mean, I guess that could happen, but the likelihood of it happening didn't make sense.
我的意思是，我猜这可能会发生，但发生的可能性没有意义。
And then there was another person on the list that was a person that had been in the United States for over 50 years and was receiving widow benefits.
名单上还有一个人，他已经在美国生活了 50 多年，正在领取寡妇福利。
And we're like, OK, so this person's a violent criminal and a suspected terrorist?
我们就想，好吧，那么这个人是一名暴力犯罪分子，也是一名恐怖分子嫌疑人？
So Jeremiah is like, one, I can't mark people who are alive as dead.
所以耶利米说，一，我不能把活着的人标记为死人。
Two, they told us these were all people without status, and that seems to not be true.
第二，他们告诉我们这些都是没有地位的人，这似乎不是真的。
And three, the data I did see from the list makes me side-eye that they're even criminals.
第三，我从名单中看到的数据让我怀疑他们甚至是罪犯。
Too many red flags in a row.
连续出现太多危险信号。
He decides to sound the alarm.
他决定拉响警报。
I went to my boss.
我去找我的老板。
And my boss at the time was now Stephen Evangelista.
我当时的老板现在是斯蒂芬·伊万杰利斯塔。
He had taken over after my other boss left the agency.
我的另一位老板离开该机构后，他接任了职务。
And I said, we need to have a meeting with DHS.
我说，我们需要与国土安全部举行会议。
And we need to talk through a couple of things because we think their list is inaccurate.
我们需要讨论一些事情，因为我们认为他们的清单不准确。
And that's probably a light way of saying that.
这可能是一种轻松的表达方式。
So he calls this meeting.
所以他召开了这次会议。
They get DHS on a video call.
他们通过视频通话联系国土安全部。
And on the call, Jeremiah says they present their findings, that the people on the list are alive and seem to be here legally.
耶利米在电话中表示，他们展示了他们的调查结果，名单上的人还活着，而且似乎是合法居留的。
DHS is like, OK, we'll get you a new list.
国土安全部就像，好吧，我们会给你一份新的清单。
But Jeremiah has another question.
但耶利米还有另一个问题。
"Logistically," he asks, "if there are mistakes on this or any other list you give us, how would a person on the list by mistake fix it?"
“从逻辑上讲，”他问道，“如果这个清单或你给我们的任何其他清单上有错误，清单上的人会如何修复它？”
And Jon Koval, a DOGE guy at DHS, says, "They would go in person to an SSA office, same as any other mistake.
国土安全部的 DOGE 人员乔恩·科瓦尔 (Jon Koval) 表示：“他们会亲自前往 SSA 办公室，就像任何其他错误一样。
Oh, but when they get there, just flag them over for ICE." Jeremiah says he looked at his coworker, and they were visibly really uncomfortable.
哦，但是当他们到达那里时，只需将他们标记为 ICE 即可。”耶利米说，他看着他的同事，他们显然非常不舒服。
ICE is not a place where immigrants who have a mistake on any kind of government papers go to get them straightened out.
ICE 并不是移民在任何类型的政府文件上犯错的地方去纠正错误的地方。
It's where they go get deported.
这是他们被驱逐出境的地方。
Jeremiah looks at his boss, Stephen Evangelista.
耶利米看着他的老板斯蒂芬·伊万格利斯塔。
To Jeremiah, DHS's intention is now crystal clear.
对于耶利米来说，国土安全部的意图现在非常明确。
And so we were like, OK, thank you for the information.
所以我们就说，好吧，谢谢你提供的信息。
We wrapped up the call.
我们结束了通话。
Then we're still in the room.
然后我们还在房间里。
And I look across the table.
我看着桌子对面。
I remember sitting across the table from Stephen.
我记得坐在斯蒂芬的桌子对面。
And I said, "The reason that they're doing this with this 2.7 million is because they're trying to deport all of these people.
我说：“他们之所以对这 270 万人这样做，是因为他们试图驱逐所有这些人。
It's plain and obvious." And Stephen said, "You don't know that.
这是简单明了的。”斯蒂芬说：“你不知道这一点。
You can't be sure of it.
你不能确定这一点。
That's too much conjecture.
这猜测太多了。
You don't know this definitively."
你并不能确切地知道这一点。”
And I'm like, "Come on.
我说：“来吧。
We know this.
我们知道这一点。
This is why this is happening." He's like, "You just don't know it." So we got into a little back-and-forth in reference to that.
这就是发生这种情况的原因。”他说：“你只是不知道而已。”所以我们对此进行了一些来回讨论。
And he's like, "OK, how about I just call Jon, and I'll ask him?"
他说，“好吧，我打电话给乔恩，我会问他怎么样？”
Jon Koval, the DOGE guy working with DHS.
乔恩·科瓦尔 (Jon Koval)，与国土安全部合作的 DOGE 人员。
I'm like, "OK." He's like, "I'm going to call Jon.
我说：“好吧。”他说：“我要给乔恩打电话。
You guys be quiet." So "you guys" were me and his technical assistant.
你们安静点。”所以“你们”就是我和他的技术助理。
And, "I'll just have a quick conversation with Jon in reference to this 2.7 million and why." So he pulls out his cell phone, and he calls Jon.
并且，“我将与乔恩快速交谈一下这 270 万个数字以及原因。”于是他拿出手机，给乔恩打电话。
He puts Jon on speakerphone.
他让乔恩打开免提。
And he says, Jon, can you tell me why we're going through all this effort with these 2.7 million people?
他说，乔恩，你能告诉我为什么我们要与这 270 万人一起进行所有这些努力吗？
And Jon said matter of fact terms back.
乔恩也实事求是地回了一句。
He's like, "Well, there's two outcomes that we're hoping for here.
他说：“好吧，我们希望有两个结果。
One, we'll make the people's lives so miserable with-- their lives will just be hard to go through because we'll turn off their credit.
第一，我们会让人们的生活变得如此悲惨——他们的生活将变得艰难，因为我们将关闭他们的信用。
We'll turn off their credit card.
我们将关闭他们的信用卡。
We'll turn off their bank.
我们将关闭他们的银行。
They'll just want to self-deport.
他们只想自我驱逐出境。
Or two, they'll go into a Social Security office, and we'll have ICE pick them up there.
一两个，他们会去社会保障办公室，我们会让 ICE 去那里接他们。
Or you'll refer them over to us, and ICE will pick them up either at USCIS or at ICE, wherever you determine that they should go." Just matter-of-factly.
或者你将他们转交给我们，ICE 会在 USCIS 或 ICE 接他们，无论你决定他们应该去哪里。”只是就事论事而已。
And when he said that, I was shocked that he said it so matter-of-factly.
当他这么说的时候，我很惊讶他说得这么实事求是。
I was pretty shocked that that happened.
我对发生的事情感到非常震惊。
It's one thing to think you know and be like 98% sure, but you don't really know something.
认为自己知道并且有 98% 的把握是一回事，但实际上您并不知道某件事。
It's different when you know it 100% and you just heard it from a chief official over at DHS who also happens to be a DOGE associate.
当你 100% 了解它并且你只是从国土安全部的一位首席官员那里听到这句话时，情况就不同了，而他恰好也是 DOGE 的同事。
And he made it very plainly clear that this is what he was trying to do and the outcomes that they were seeking.
他非常清楚地表明，这就是他正在努力做的事情，也是他们正在寻求的结果。
Stephen was like, thank you for the information, quickly got off the call.
斯蒂芬说，谢谢你提供的信息，很快就挂断了电话。
My office, I had to go through a different door than Stephen did, out the conference room.
我的办公室，我必须穿过与斯蒂芬不同的门，走出会议室。
He quickly got up.
他连忙起身。
We didn't talk about it.
我们没有谈论它。
We didn't have an after-the-meeting conversation about it.
会后我们没有就此进行讨论。
That was also a little bit shocking because I'm sure my face said, I told you so, in unequivocal terms.
这也有点令人震惊，因为我确信我的表情明确地说，我已经告诉过你了。
And so he got up.
于是他站了起来。
He went to his office.
他去了他的办公室。
I got up, went to mine.
我起身，走向我的。
And we never talked about it again.
我们再也没有谈论过这件事。
Jeremiah quit the SSA few months later, and now he's filing a whistleblower complaint.
几个月后，耶利米退出了 SSA，现在他正在提交举报投诉。
The 2.7 million person list was a crisis averted.
270万人名单避免了一场危机。
The SSA didn't add those names to the Death Master File.
SSA 没有将这些名字添加到死亡主档案中。
As far as Jeremiah can tell, they're still alive.
据耶利米所知，他们还活着。
But of course, they always were.
但当然，他们一直都是。
The government is filled with things like the Death Master File, built for one purpose, but if you're of a certain disposition, usable for something else.
政府里充斥着诸如死亡主档案之类的东西，它们是为一个目的而建立的，但如果你有某种性格，也可以用于其他目的。
A list of the dead, a public service to track who is alive and who is dead, or a tool to kill off anyone you don't like.
死者名单、追踪生者和死者的公共服务，或者杀死你不喜欢的人的工具。
It's not legal.
这是不合法的。
It flies in the face of rules and laws that have governed the list for decades.
它违背了数十年来统治该名单的规则和法律。
It violates the whole name of the list.
它违反了列表的整体名称。
But that doesn't mean you can't do it anyway.
但这并不意味着你不能这样做。
Nadia Reiman is a producer on our show.
纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 是我们节目的制片人。
By the way, we did reach out to all the people and agencies Jeremiah names in this story.
顺便说一句，我们确实联系了这个故事中以耶利米名字命名的所有人员和机构。
Only the Department of Homeland Security got back to us.
只有国土安全部回复了我们。
They gave us a statement saying, quote, "The government is finally doing what it should have all along, sharing information across the federal government to solve problems." Two congressional offices are currently looking into the allegations Jeremiah made in his whistleblower claim.
他们给了我们一份声明，引述说，“政府终于做了它一直以来应该做的事情，在联邦政府之间共享信息来解决问题。”两个国会办公室目前正在调查耶利米在举报人声明中提出的指控。
Coming up, one man will suffer through many ordeals to have a private encounter with a God living here on Earth, specifically in Barcelona.
接下来，一个人将经历许多磨难，才能与生活在地球上的上帝进行私人邂逅，特别是在巴塞罗那。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah.
我是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾。
Today's show, Not Today, Hades.
今天的节目，不是今天，哈迪斯。
Our last act, Act 3, Zeus.
我们的最后一幕，第三幕，宙斯。
He has taken many forms here on Earth.
他在地球上以多种形式出现。
For the last 20 years, millions have been worshipping a man they say performs miracles.
在过去的20年里，数百万人一直在崇拜一个他们认为创造奇迹的人。
They call him many names-- Magician, Messiah, The Chosen One.
他们给他起很多名字——魔术师、弥赛亚、天选者。
And he looks, in some ways, kind of anonymous, like nobody special.
从某些方面来说，他看起来有点无名，没有什么特别的。
He's short, 5' 7".
他很矮，5英尺7英寸。
He's soft spoken, shy even.
他说话很温柔，甚至有些害羞。
The legends about this man are many.
关于这个人的传说有很多。
But very few of his devotees have ever actually met him, let alone talked with him.
但他的信徒中很少有人真正见过他，更不用说与他交谈了。
Writer Daniel Alarcón is one of them, one of the very few mere mortals to have met Lionel Messi, arguably the greatest soccer player of all time.
作家丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔就是其中之一，他是极少数见过莱昂内尔·梅西的凡人之一，莱昂内尔·梅西可以说是有史以来最伟大的足球运动员。
Daniel talked about it on the podcast he hosts with his longtime friend, who's also a writer, John Green.
丹尼尔在他与他的老朋友、作家约翰·格林主持的播客中谈到了这一点。
Daniel adapted it for our show.
丹尼尔为我们的节目改编了它。
So John, once upon a time, there were many, many magazines that were published in the United States and around the world.
约翰，从前，有很多很多杂志在美国和世界各地出版。
As you know, I've written for many of them.
如你所知，我为其中许多人写过文章。
And magazines, for our younger listeners, are very thin little books.
对于我们年轻的听众来说，杂志是非常薄的小书。
It's like Instagram, but text-based and printed.
它就像 Instagram，但基于文本和印刷。
Yes.
是的。
And there was a specific niche among these that were called glossies.
其中有一个特定的利基市场，称为光泽。
And glossies were the high-end fashion magazines.
光面杂志是高端时尚杂志。
And the glossies got their name from the glossy paper that they were printed on.
光面纸的名字来源于印刷它们的光面纸。
So Vanity Fair, GQ, Vogue, those are the glossies.
所以《Vanity Fair》、《GQ》、《Vogue》，这些都是光泽。
And they were kind of lucrative.
而且他们的利润丰厚。
Yeah, they paid great.
是的，他们付出了很多。
Daniel Alarcón They paid so much money.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 他们付了很多钱。
I had never written for a glossy magazine, I should say, until one of these editors who worked at one of these magazines called me up and asked me if I was interested in writing a profile of Lionel Messi.
我应该说，我从来没有为一本光鲜亮丽的杂志写过文章，直到其中一位在其中一本杂志工作的编辑打电话给我，问我是否有兴趣写一篇莱昂内尔·梅西的简介。
And of course, I was interested, huge soccer fan, blah blah blah.
当然，我很感兴趣，超级足球迷，等等等等。
The problem is that I was about to be married, and the reporting trip would be the week after my wedding.
问题是我即将结婚，而报道之旅将在我结婚后的一周进行。
So terrible timing.
时机太糟糕了。
I was told I would get to spend three days with the world's greatest player.
有人告诉我，我将与世界上最伟大的球员一起度过三天。
I'd get to see a training session.
我会去观看训练课程。
I'd get to go to a game.
我得去看一场比赛。
I'd have full access.
我有完全访问权限。
And I spoke with Carolina.
我和卡罗莱纳谈过。
And she said, you've got to go, you got to do this, and we would do the honeymoon later.
她说，你必须离开，你必须这样做，我们稍后再去度蜜月。
And I think you know this, but I think it's worth repeating, just what a genius Lionel Messi is, spoken of in the same breath as Pelé, as Maradona.
我想你知道这一点，但我认为值得重复一遍，梅西是一个多么天才的人，他与贝利、马拉多纳相提并论。
And I felt like there are people who watch Lionel Messi play a game, and they're like, man, he's good.
我觉得有些人观看莱昂内尔·梅西 (Lionel Messi) 比赛，他们会说，伙计，他很棒。
And there are people like me, who understand it or feel like we understand it on a completely different level.
有些人像我一样理解它，或者觉得我们在完全不同的层面上理解它。
And I thought that there would be a way that I could express to him that my understanding of what he was accomplishing on the pitch was not like, woo hoo, goal.
我认为我可以通过一种方式向他表达我对他在球场上所取得的成就的理解并不像“哇哦，进球”。
You know?
你知道吗？
It was a much more sophisticated understanding.
这是一种更为复杂的理解。
And I was like, yeah, no doubt, me and Leo are going to be friends.
我当时想，是的，毫无疑问，我和利奥会成为朋友。
That's totally realistic.
这完全是现实的。
Daniel Alarcón I was imagining us hanging out at his house, playing Xbox or FIFA or something, and then going to eat some Argentine barbecue somewhere, the grill in Barcelona somewhere, and then riding in his car.
Daniel Alarcón 我想象着我们在他家闲逛，玩 Xbox 或 FIFA 之类的东西，然后去某个地方吃一些阿根廷烧烤，在巴塞罗那的某个地方烧烤，然后乘坐他的车。
And then at the end of the night he'd be like, you know what, man?
然后到了晚上结束的时候，他会说，你知道吗，伙计？
You're so cool.
你真酷。
Cancel your flight back.
取消返程航班。
We're hanging out.
我们正在闲逛。
Yeah.
是的。
Daniel Alarcón Normal stuff.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 正常的东西。
So this is what I was imagining.
这就是我的想象。
And, yeah, so basically, 36 hours after my wedding, I'm on a plane to Barcelona.
是的，基本上，婚礼后 36 小时，我就坐上了飞往巴塞罗那的飞机。
I arrived at New York.
我抵达纽约。
So I flew from San Francisco to New York.
所以我从旧金山飞往纽约。
I checked my email.
我检查了我的电子邮件。
And that's when I got the first blow, which was that I would no longer have three days with Lionel Messi.
就在那时，我受到了第一个打击，那就是我将不再与莱昂内尔·梅西在一起三天。
I would have a single day.
我会度过一天。
Now, I still thought a single day is good.
现在，我仍然认为一天就很好。
I was like, a day.
我当时想，一天。
That's still pretty good.
那还是很不错的。
I checked my email again when I got to Barcelona, and now it was no longer a day.
当我到达巴塞罗那时，我再次查看了我的电子邮件，现在已经不再是一天了。
It was an hour.
一个小时了。
So at this point, just to be clear, I had given up my honeymoon to spend an hour with a soccer player.
因此，在这一点上，需要澄清的是，我已经放弃了蜜月，转而与一位足球运动员共度一个小时。
It was just beginning to dawn on me that this was the wrong way to start my marriage, right?
我刚刚开始意识到，这是开始我婚姻的错误方式，对吧？
So here's what happened.
所以这就是发生的事情。
I got to Barcelona.
我到了巴塞罗那。
I had planned four days in town.
我计划在城里呆四天。
Now I've got two extra days to report.
现在我还有两天的时间来报告。
So I'm just going to report the [BLEEP] out of this story, which is what I do.
所以我只想报告这个故事中的[BLEEP]，这就是我所做的。
So I talked to everybody.
所以我和每个人都聊过。
I found the guy who took Messi's first photo ID back when Messi was a teenager with long hair and he needed his ID card so he could enter the grounds of the stadium.
我找到了那个拿回梅西第一张带照片身份证件的人，当时梅西还是个长发少年，他需要身份证才能进入体育场。
I found the owners of the Argentine restaurant in the suburb where Messi has his gigantic home.
我在梅西大宅所在的郊区找到了一家阿根廷餐厅的老板。
And I got to sit in the booth where Messi sometimes goes to eat.
我必须坐在梅西有时去吃饭的摊位上。
So anyway, I finally do have my day where I'm going to go meet Lionel Messi.
不管怎样，我终于有一天能去见莱昂内尔·梅西了。
And I'm told to get to the Cuitat Esportiva around 10:00 AM.
我被告知要在上午 10:00 左右到达 Cuitat Esportiva。
And of course, I did.
当然，我做到了。
Punctually there.
准时到了。
And I get there, and I'm like, hey, so I'm a journalist for this fancy glossy magazine.
当我到达那里时，我想，嘿，所以我是这本精美杂志的记者。
This was all been scheduled.
这一切都是预定好的。
Publicists, editors have been negotiating my arrival.
公关人员、编辑们一直在就我的到来进行谈判。
Can I walk around?
我可以四处走走吗？
No, no. No, you can't.
不，不。不，你不能。
I'm like, OK.
我想，好吧。
And they take me to this kind of press room.
他们带我去这样的新闻发布室。
And they tell me Messi will be there in a few minutes.
他们告诉我梅西几分钟后就会到那里。
It's super hot.
天气超级热。
This is like September.
这就像九月。
I was not given so much as a glass of water.
他们连一杯水都没有给我。
And I waited, and I waited, and I waited.
我等待，我等待，我等待。
And then someone came in and told me that I'd be meeting Messi actually, not then, but before afternoon training.
然后有人进来告诉我，我实际上会见梅西，不是在那时，而是在下午训练之前。
And I was like, OK.
我当时想，好吧。
So can I watch the training?
那么我可以观看训练吗？
And they're like, no, absolutely not.
他们说，不，绝对不是。
You cannot watch the training.
你不能观看训练。
And I'm just like, what the hell?
我只是想，到底是什么？
I'm like, what is this?
我想，这是什么？
So I kind of like am peeking out the window.
所以我有点喜欢往窗外看。
And I see Messi and the other players arrive.
我看到梅西和其他球员到达。
They have super fancy cars.
他们有超级豪华的汽车。
And naturally, Messi did not come up to speak to me before training.
当然，梅西在训练前并没有过来跟我说话。
And a little factotum was sent up to tell me that he would come after training.
一个小杂役被派来告诉我他训练结束后会来。
So at this point, training started at 3:00.
那么此时，训练是在3:00开始的。
I've been there, remember, since 10:00.
请记住，从 10:00 起我就去过那儿了。
I've resorted to going to the bathroom and just lapping water into my mouth out of the sink because I have not been given anything.
我只能去洗手间，把水槽里的水舀进嘴里，因为他们没有给我任何东西。
That's nothing.
那没什么。
I'm eating wadded up paper towels, just chewing on paper just to trick myself.
我吃的是卷起来的纸巾，只是咀嚼纸来欺骗自己。
I'm starving.
我饿死了。
And then I didn't know what had happened at training that day.
然后我就不知道那天训练时发生了什么。
I found out later.
我后来才知道。
But I could tell, because I am an astute judge of character, John, as you know, that something bad had happened at training.
但我可以看出，因为我对约翰的性格有敏锐的判断力，正如你所知，训练中发生了一些不好的事情。
I kind of saw the players trudging off with this look of "there but for the grace of God go I." They had seen something.
我看到球员们步履蹒跚地走着，一副“要不是上帝的恩典我才去那里”的表情。他们看到了一些东西。
I found out later that the something they had seen was a young player named Ibrahim Afellay had torn his ACL.
后来我发现他们看到的是一位名叫易卜拉欣·阿费莱的年轻球员，他的前交叉韧带撕裂了。
And so I, of course, was not allowed to watch training.
所以我当然不被允许观看训练。
So I didn't see any of this.
所以我没有看到这些。
But I could sense something was wrong.
但我能感觉到有些不对劲。
And that is one of those things that I think really affects players' moods because they know that all of them are one bad turn, one injury like that, away from sitting out for a year.
我认为这是真正影响球员情绪的事情之一，因为他们知道他们所有人都会经历一次糟糕的转变，一次这样的伤病，远离一年的缺席。
You know?
你知道？
And maybe, like in the case of Ibrahim Afellay--
也许，就像易卜拉欣·阿费莱的例子一样——
Never quite being the same, exactly, which is precisely what happened to Afellay.
确切地说，从来没有完全相同，这正是发生在阿费莱身上的事情。
Anyway, at this point, it's past 6:00 PM.
不管怎样，此时已经是下午 6:00 多了。
So I've been there for a full working day, nothing to eat, super hot.
所以我在那里呆了一整天，没有吃东西，超级热。
And I'm not one to be dramatic, John, but I was basically being held prisoner at the Barcelona training ground by that point.
约翰，我不是一个戏剧性的人，但那时我基本上已经被囚禁在巴塞罗那训练场了。
That's how it felt.
就是这样的感觉。
So finally, it's just before 7:00 PM when the world's greatest player finally walks in.
最后，就在晚上 7:00 之前，世界上最伟大的球员终于登场了。
We sit down at this table.
我们坐在这张桌子旁。
It's this little silver table.
就是这张银色的小桌子。
There's three chairs.
那里有三张椅子。
It's me across from Messi.
梅西对面是我。
And his publicist is kind of in the middle.
他的公关人员则处于中间位置。
And so begins the world's worst interview.
世界上最糟糕的采访就这样开始了。
[LAUGHTER] It's like, he batted me away like-- I can't remember what I asked him, but he gave me this look like he'd rather be at the dentist.
[笑声] 就好像，他把我赶走了，就像——我不记得我问了他什么，但他给我的表情就好像他宁愿去看牙医一样。
And just looking at me, and I'm disheveled and sweaty.
只要看着我，我就衣衫不整，满头大汗。
My shirt was a normal size at the beginning of the day, but after eight hours of being held hostage at the Barcelona training ground in a hot September day, the shirt was just stuck to me.
我的衬衫一开始是正常尺寸的，但在九月炎热的一天在巴塞罗那训练场被扣为人质八个小时后，衬衫就粘在我身上了。
And I asked my first question.
我问了第一个问题。
And he said this thing, and I'm going to imitate an Argentine accent.
他说了这句话，我就要模仿阿根廷口音。
He said--
他说——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] --which Is basically like, dude, I've been asked this so many times.
[说西班牙语]——这基本上就像，伙计，我已经被问过很多次了。
He's rolling his eyes.
他在翻白眼。
And I'm just--
而我只是——
Oh God.
天啊。
Daniel Alarcón And it got worse from there.
Daniel Alarcón 从那以后情况变得更糟。
It just got worse.
情况变得更糟了。
I realize that something bad has happened at training.
我意识到训练中发生了一些不好的事情。
I realize that he's not interested in speaking with me.
我意识到他没有兴趣和我说话。
He doesn't know what a GQ is or what a Vogue is.
他不知道什么是《GQ》，什么是《Vogue》。
He doesn't give a [BLEEP].
他没有发出[BLEEP]声。
He doesn't care.
他不在乎。
He's just like, this weird guy who's all sweaty is sitting here.
他就像是，这个浑身是汗的怪人坐在这里。
He's been waiting for me for eight hours, like a freaking stalker.
他已经等了我八个小时了，就像一个该死的跟踪狂。
And now he's asking me dumb questions that I've been asked before.
现在他问了我以前被问过的愚蠢问题。
And so he's just being monosyllabic.
所以他只是单音节的。
And at the end of it, it's just devastating.
最后，这只是毁灭性的。
Basically, the publicist just kind of calls time on it, and it's done.
基本上，公关人员只是要求时间到了，事情就完成了。
Before he walks out, we take this photograph.
在他走出去之前，我们拍了这张照片。
I ask the publicist if it's OK if we take a photograph.
我问公关我们是否可以拍照。
And he said this thing to me.
他对我说了这件事。
He's like, of course.
他就像，当然。
I know we all have feelings.
我知道我们都有感情。
We all have feelings?
我们都有感情吗？
Daniel Alarcón The publicist can sense my humiliation, which is actually manifesting as physical pain.
公关人员丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 (Daniel Alarcón) 可以感觉到我的羞辱，这实际上表现为身体上的疼痛。
Like, at this point, it's just like this is the worst reporting experience of my life, possibly one of the most humiliating experiences of my life at all, of the whole of it.
就像，在这一点上，这就像是我一生中最糟糕的报道经历，可能是我一生中最丢脸的经历之一。
So I took my photo.
所以我拍了照片。
Messi walks out, immediately, of course, forgets the entire interaction that I have never forgotten.
梅西立刻走了出去，当然，我忘记了我从未忘记的整个互动。
Needless to say, I wrote my draft and then got a very efficient, carefully-worded email from my editor saying that the article was not going to be published and that I could kindly take my kill fee and go away.
不用说，我写了草稿，然后收到了编辑发来的一封非常高效、措辞谨慎的电子邮件，说这篇文章不会发表，我可以拿走我的删除费并离开。
I don't know how to ask this delicately, but even on his best day, Lionel Messi is pretty at arms length when it comes to interviews.
我不知道如何巧妙地问这个问题，但即使在他最好的一天，莱昂内尔·梅西在接受采访时也相当敬而远之。
And in retrospect, there is something charming about the fact that you thought you were going to get the real Lionel Messi.
回想起来，你认为自己会得到真正的莱昂内尔·梅西，这一事实有一些迷人的地方。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, he batted me aside like I was a third-tier defender and went on with his life.
我的意思是，他把我击倒在一边，就像我是一个第三梯队的防守者一样，然后继续他的生活。
And so here I am thinking, man, we're going to vibe on this because we both have this deep emotional and deep intellectual understanding of the game.
所以我在这里想，伙计，我们会对此产生共鸣，因为我们都对游戏有深刻的情感和深刻的智力理解。
And basically what he was telling me was like, no, you're down here, and I'm up here.
基本上他告诉我的是，不，你在下面，我在上面。
Daniel and John's show is called The Away End, which is a soccer podcast about the run-up to the World Cup made by two people who really like books.
丹尼尔和约翰的节目名为《The Away End》，这是一个由两个真正喜欢读书的人制作的关于世界杯备战的足球播客。
Emmanuel Dzotsi produced this version for our show.
Emmanuel Dzotsi 为我们的节目制作了这个版本。
Our program was produced today by me and edited by David Kestenbaum.
今天我们的节目由我制作并由 David Kestenbaum 编辑。
The people who put together today's show are Phia Bennin, Dana Chivvis, Cassie Howley, Adriene Lilly, Seth Lind, Molly Marcello, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Robin Reid, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Nancy Updike, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Dana Chivvis、Cassie Howley、Adriene Lilly、Seth Lind、Molly Marcello、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Robin Reid、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Nancy Updike 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman, and our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的总编辑是 Sarah Abdurrahman，我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Very special thanks today to Sam McKiniss.
今天非常特别感谢萨姆·麦基尼斯。
Thanks also to all This American Life partners.
也感谢《This American Life》的所有合作伙伴。
When you join, you'll get regular, exclusive bonus episodes, listen ad-free, most importantly, help us continue making this show.
当您加入后，您将获得定期的独家奖励剧集，收听无广告，最重要的是，帮助我们继续制作这个节目。
Join at thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
加入 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our boss, Ira Glass.
一如既往地感谢我们的老板艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
You know, at his own wedding recently, he decided it would be funny to start his vows by saying, "it's This American Wife." Nobody laughed.
你知道，在他最近自己的婚礼上，他认为以“这是美国妻子”开始他的誓言会很有趣。没有人笑。
It was just beginning to dawn on me that this was the wrong way to start my marriage.
我刚刚开始意识到，这是开始我婚姻的错误方式。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah.
我是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾。
Ira Glass will be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉·格拉斯将于下周回归，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。