884: The Idiot - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #884 | March 27, 2026 884: The Idiot Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 884 集 | 2026 年 3 月 27 日 884：白痴 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Act One: Act One Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
第一幕： 第一幕 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And I am joined in the studio by M.
M 也加入了我的工作室。
Gessen.
格森。
And the story that you're about to tell today is one that you've been telling for years?
你今天要讲的故事是你多年来一直讲的故事吗？
Yeah.
是的。
First it was just, there was something weird going on in my family, but also insane ways that my family talks about these crazy events.
首先，我的家人发生了一些奇怪的事情，而且我的家人谈论这些疯狂事件的方式也很疯狂。
And is this story a story that when you would tell it to friends and loved ones, was it a funny story?
当你把这个故事讲给朋友和亲人听时，它是一个有趣的故事吗？
I hesitate to say that it was a funny story, but yes.
我犹豫是否要说这是一个有趣的故事，但是是的。
Yes, Ira, it was a funny story.
是的，艾拉，这是一个有趣的故事。
And I mean, maybe that's also just the only way that we can deal with things that are unbelievable.
我的意思是，也许这也是我们处理令人难以置信的事情的唯一方法。
It wasn't until I started reporting it that I realized how horrible the story actually was.
直到我开始报道这件事，我才意识到这个故事实际上有多么可怕。
And when you started to report it-- this was years ago-- originally this was going to be a story for This American Life.
当你开始报道这件事时——那是几年前的事了——最初这将是《美国生活》的一个故事。
And then at some point it just got too big.
然后在某个时候它变得太大了。
Like, it was like, we cannot contain this in one episode of our show.
就像，就像，我们不能将其包含在我们节目的一集中。
And you turned it into this podcast with Serial.
你用 Serial 将它变成了这个播客。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass And it's now a five-part series with Serial that was released this week.
Ira Glass 现在，它是一个由五部分组成的连续剧，已于本周发布。
And you've been doing read throughs of drafts as you've been writing drafts that I've sat in on.
你们一直在通读草稿，就像你们一直在写我参与的草稿一样。
And I just want to say, I just, I love this show and feel like this show is so different from other podcasts that I have heard in a bunch of interesting ways.
我只想说，我只是，我喜欢这个节目，并且觉得这个节目与我以多种有趣的方式听到的其他播客非常不同。
And what we're going to do today on our program is we're going to walk through enough of the story so that listeners here can hear what I'm hearing in it.
今天我们在节目中要做的是，我们将讲述足够多的故事，以便这里的听众能够听到我在其中听到的内容。
And then if they want, they can go and listen to the whole thing.
然后，如果他们愿意，他们可以去听整个事情。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，我是 Ira Glass。
That's going to be our show today, and we're going to begin by playing the first episode of the series, which is almost like a prologue and sets the whole thing up.
这就是我们今天的节目，我们将首先播放该系列的第一集，这几乎就像一个序幕，为整个事情奠定了基础。
Is there anything else that we should say before we play that?
在玩之前我们还有什么要说的吗？
No, I think we can jump in.
不，我想我们可以跳进去。
Ira Glass OK, let's just jump right in with that.
Ira Glass：好的，我们直接开始吧。
M.
M。
Gessen My family, if I had to give it an adjective, is elastic.
格森：如果我必须用一个形容词来形容的话，我的家庭是富有弹性的。
45 years ago, my parents, my little brother, and I came over to this country from the Soviet Union, extending the family across continents.
45 年前，我的父母、弟弟和我从苏联来到这个国家，一家人跨越了各大洲。
Over the decades, the family, my father really, stretched to absorb spouses, in-laws, even though they spoke a different language, children, both biological and adopted.
几十年来，这个家庭，实际上是我的父亲，不断吸收配偶、姻亲（尽管他们说着不同的语言）、孩子，无论是亲生的还是领养的。
Ex-spouses who chose to stick around, and eventually grandchildren.
选择留下来的前配偶，以及最终的孙辈。
Over those same decades, as in any family, people made bad decisions, said things they hoped no one would remember, got mad at each other, held grudges, came around, and the family stretched as needed.
在同样的几十年里，就像在任何家庭中一样，人们做出了错误的决定，说了一些他们希望没人记得的话，互相生气，怀恨在心，和解，家庭根据需要而伸展。
And then it snapped.
然后它就断了。
Someone did something that bad, that shocking.
有人做了这么坏的事，太令人震惊了。
That person was my cousin, Allen.
那个人是我的表弟艾伦。
He and his mother, my father's sister, Lenna, came to the US from Moscow in 1990, when Allen was 15.
1990 年，他和他的母亲（我父亲的妹妹）Lenna 从莫斯科来到美国，当时艾伦 15 岁。
They stayed with my parents and brother for almost a year.
他们和我的父母和兄弟一起住了将近一年。
By the time they arrived, I no longer lived at home, so I didn't have much of a relationship with them.
当他们来的时候，我已经不住在家里了，所以我和他们没有太多的关系。
I never really wanted to because I didn't like my aunt.
我从来没有真正想要这样做，因为我不喜欢我的阿姨。
And as Allen grew up, I realized even from a distance that I didn't particularly like him either.
随着艾伦长大，即使远远地看，我也意识到我也不是特别喜欢他。
Allen is a clown, a blowhard, a pompous ass.
艾伦是个小丑、吹牛大王、自大的混蛋。
He would call himself an entrepreneur.
他称自己为企业家。
He started his first business in college.
他在大学时开始了自己的第一笔生意。
He hired students to ghostwrite papers for other, wealthier students.
他雇佣学生为其他富裕的学生代写论文。
He went to law school and got fired from his first job.
他上了法学院，但第一份工作却被解雇了。
He later told me this was because his fine legal mind made the other lawyers insecure.
他后来告诉我，这是因为他良好的法律头脑让其他律师没有安全感。
Then he lived in Russia, Ukraine, Zimbabwe, working a series of increasingly shady jobs.
然后他住在俄罗斯、乌克兰、津巴布韦，从事一系列越来越不光彩的工作。
In Africa, he was involved with diamonds and worked with an Israeli company that provided security for mining.
在非洲，他涉足钻石行业，并与一家为采矿提供安全保障的以色列公司合作。
If someone had set out to write an unlikeable international huckster character, they couldn't have laid it on any thicker.
如果有人打算写一个不讨人喜欢的国际商人角色，他们不可能把它写得更厚。
Allen married a Zimbabwean woman.
艾伦娶了一位津巴布韦妇女。
Word in the family was that she had been that country's beauty queen.
家里人都说她是那个国家的选美皇后。
They had two kids.
他们有两个孩子。
Last I knew, all of them, including my aunt Lenna, were living in Moscow.
我最后知道，他们所有人，包括我姨妈莱娜，都住在莫斯科。
And then in the summer of 2019, everyone on the American side of the family got a Facebook message from Allen, informing us that he had arrived in the US with his five-year-old son, who I'm going to call O.
然后在 2019 年夏天，美国这边的每个家庭成员都收到了艾伦发来的 Facebook 消息，通知我们他已经带着他 5 岁的儿子（我称之为 O）抵达美国。
Allen wrote they'd come for O to quote, "commence his studies." I repeat, O was five.
艾伦写道，他们来找 O 是为了引用“开始他的研究”。我再说一遍，O 当时五岁。
His wife, he wrote, was still in Russia with their baby daughter.
他写道，他的妻子带着他们的小女儿仍在俄罗斯。
They had separated.
他们已经分开了。
Allen added ominously, quote, "things are less than amicable.
艾伦不祥地补充道，“事情并不友好。
She might make attempts to contact you with requests detrimental to mine and O's interests," unquote.
她可能会尝试联系你，提出不利于我和 O 利益的请求。”
I immediately texted my brother Keith, who was closer to Allen.
我立即给我的兄弟基思发了短信，他和艾伦关系更近。
So our cousin has kidnapped his son and abandoned his daughter?
所以我们的表弟绑架了他的儿子并抛弃了他的女儿？
"The answer would appear to be maybe," my brother responded.
“答案似乎是也许，”我哥哥回答道。
Just a note, this isn't the big shocking thing I was talking about earlier.
请注意，这并不是我之前谈论的令人震惊的大事。
We're still a few years away from that.
我们距离这个目标还有几年的时间。
I called my dad.
我打电话给我爸爸。
He told me that Allen had just shown up at his house on Cape Cod without warning.
他告诉我艾伦刚刚毫无征兆地出现在他位于科德角的家中。
His five-year-old son was with him, as was Lenna, my dad's sister.
他五岁的儿子和他在一起，还有我父亲的妹妹莱娜。
I asked my dad if we should do something about the maybe kidnapping.
我问我爸爸我们是否应该对可能发生的绑架采取一些措施。
Like, I don't know, contact the FBI?
就像，我不知道，联系联邦调查局？
This was the wrong thing to say to a guy who grew up in the Soviet Union.
对于一个在苏联长大的人来说，这句话是错误的。
He would never call the authorities on his sister and nephew.
他永远不会向当局举报他的妹妹和侄子。
What he did do was post a picture of O on Facebook, perhaps a message in a bottle for O's mom.
他所做的就是在 Facebook 上发布了 O 的照片，这可能是给 O 妈妈的瓶子里的信息。
Sure enough, my father immediately heard from her.
果然，父亲立刻就收到了她的消息。
Her name is Priscilla.
她的名字叫普里西拉。
Priscilla wrote to my dad describing the ordeal she was enduring.
普里西拉写信给我父亲描述了她所经历的磨难。
She said she had gone on a short business trip to Zimbabwe, and when she returned, she discovered that Allen had left with their son.
她说她去津巴布韦进行了一次短暂的出差，当她回来时，她发现艾伦已经带着他们的儿子离开了。
It had been about a week, and only now from seeing my father's Facebook post, was she learning anything more.
大约一周过去了，直到现在看到我父亲的 Facebook 帖子，她才了解到更多信息。
Priscilla wrote, "I beg you, please to help me get my son back, or to at least speak to him.
普里西拉写道：“我求求你帮我找回我的儿子，或者至少和他谈谈。
Please do not tell them I have written to you.
请不要告诉他们我已经写信给你了。
If you are unable to help me, then just ignore my message."
如果你帮不了我，就忽略我的消息吧。”
I received a long, long letter from Priscilla, but I just ignored it.
我收到了一封来自普里西拉的很长很长的信，但我只是忽略了它。
So what did you think was going on then?
那么你认为当时发生了什么？
Did you think she was lying or--
你认为她在撒谎还是——
Honestly, I didn't pay much attention.
老实说，我并没有太注意。
I don't know.
我不知道。
No. I understood that something was wrong with their marriage.
不，我知道他们的婚姻出了问题。
But beyond that, no.
但除此之外，没有。
Like I said, my family's elastic.
就像我说的，我的家庭很有弹性。
To keep it that way, my father preferred not to know too much.
为了保持这种状态，我父亲宁愿不要知道太多。
And it wasn't just him.
而且不仅仅是他。
My three younger brothers, their partners, my own grown son, assorted friends of my father's, everyone acted like, hey, sometimes men and their mothers just change continents with a five-year-old in tow.
我的三个弟弟，他们的伴侣，我自己已经长大的儿子，我父亲的各种各样的朋友，每个人的表现就像，嘿，有时男人和他们的母亲只是带着一个五岁的孩子改变大陆。
And here's the thing.
事情是这样的。
They were fun.
他们很有趣。
My father loves having family around.
我父亲喜欢有家人在身边。
The whole reason he lives in a big house on Cape Cod is so that his four kids and five grandkids gather around him.
他住在科德角的一栋大房子里的全部原因是为了让他的四个孩子和五个孙子聚集在他身边。
But the house has seen better days.
但房子已经过好日子了。
And all the kids and some of the grandkids have busy lives.
所有的孩子和一些孙子都过着忙碌的生活。
Allen and Lenna and O's arrival on the scene breathed new life into the house and the family.
艾伦、莱娜和 O 的到来给房子和家庭注入了新的活力。
Lenna would come up with ridiculous activities like let's write the Gessen family anthem, and was always taking black and white pictures that made us all look like more stylish versions of ourselves.
莱娜会想出一些可笑的活动，比如让我们写格森家族的国歌，并且总是拍黑白照片，让我们看起来更时尚。
Allen was always driving up in his Tesla with new gadgets and tales of new business ventures.
艾伦总是开着他的特斯拉，带着新玩意和新商业故事。
I found him ridiculous, but my youngest brothers and my oldest son hung on every word.
我觉得他很可笑，但我最小的兄弟和我的大儿子坚持每一个字。
Allen would sit on the couch with these very young men and scroll through pictures of women on Tinder.
艾伦会和这些非常年轻的男人坐在沙发上，浏览 Tinder 上女性的照片。
They all looked like models.
他们看起来都像模特。
Allen was bald as a billiard ball and had a giant protruding belly.
艾伦的秃头像台球一样，还有一个突出的大肚子。
He claimed that he had matched with all of those women.
他声称他与所有这些女人都匹配。
After a while, Allen was eager to talk about why he had taken O.
过了一会儿，艾伦急于谈论他为什么要带O。
He claimed that Priscilla was a bad mother.
他声称普里西拉是一个坏母亲。
She partied all the time.
她总是参加派对。
She did drugs.
她吸毒。
She cheated on Allen.
她欺骗了艾伦。
To me, these sounded like good reasons to get a divorce, not to take your child from his mother.
对我来说，这些听起来像是离婚的好理由，而不是把孩子从他母亲身边带走。
Lenna had her own complaints.
莱娜也有自己的抱怨。
She said Priscilla didn't read to her child, and perhaps even worse, didn't read books herself.
她说普里西拉不读书给她的孩子听，也许更糟糕的是，她自己也不读书。
The only book she kept in the house, Lenna claimed, was the Bible.
莱娜声称，她家里唯一保留的书是《圣经》。
I thought, wait, this was why Lenna and Allen took Priscilla's son away?
我想，等等，这就是莱娜和艾伦带走普里西拉儿子的原因？
There are few things that I think justify separating a kid from his parent, but Lenna and Allen didn't seem to think that much justification was required.
我认为没有什么理由可以证明将孩子与父母分开是合理的，但莱娜和艾伦似乎并不认为需要太多理由。
I couldn't stop thinking about what Priscilla must be going through.
我无法停止思考普里西拉一定正在经历什么。
Without telling anyone in the family, I decided to reach out to her.
在没有告诉家里任何人的情况下，我决定联系她。
I had met her only a couple of times and barely had a sense of her.
我只见过她几次，对她几乎没有任何感觉。
I knew that she worked in fashion.
我知道她从事时尚行业。
I knew from Lenna that Priscilla's father owned a huge farm in Zimbabwe.
我从莱娜那里得知，普里西拉的父亲在津巴布韦拥有一个巨大的农场。
And I knew that she would have no reason to trust me.
我知道她没有理由相信我。
I wasn't sure she'd respond.
我不确定她会回应。
I texted her that I knew only Lenna and Allen's side of the story.
我给她发短信说我只知道莱娜和艾伦的故事。
Priscilla wrote back right away.
普里西拉立即回信。
She was stuck in Russia.
她被困在俄罗斯。
Her daughter, whom I'll call L, had been born via surrogacy because Priscilla was unable to carry a pregnancy to term.
她的女儿，我称之为 L，是通过代孕出生的，因为普里西拉无法怀孕至足月。
The baby was eight months old, but Priscilla still didn't have a birth certificate for her, which meant that they couldn't leave the country.
孩子已经八个月大了，但普里西拉仍然没有她的出生证明，这意味着他们无法离开这个国家。
We traded short messages back and forth.
我们来回交换短信。
Our exchange was friendly, but guarded.
我们的交流很友好，但也很谨慎。
I didn't want to overstep, and I think Priscilla tried to say only what needed to be said.
我不想越界，而且我认为普里西拉试图只说需要说的话。
It was enough for me to sense that she was in anguish, and I was horrified.
这足以让我感受到她的痛苦，我感到震惊。
How could this woman's child just be taken away from her?
这个女人的孩子怎么可能就这么被夺走呢？
How could my family just sit by?
我的家人怎么能袖手旁观？
And what was going to happen to O now?
那么现在 O 会发生什么呢？
Priscilla told me that the Russian police would not help her.
普里西拉告诉我，俄罗斯警察不会帮助她。
The Zimbabwean embassy said that she could file a petition under the Hague Convention, a treaty that specifically addresses situations when one parent abducts a child and takes them to another country.
津巴布韦大使馆表示，她可以根据《海牙公约》提交请愿书，该公约专门针对父母一方绑架儿童并将其带到另一个国家的情况。
But Priscilla needed legal help in the US.
但普里西拉在美国需要法律帮助。
I could be useful here.
我在这里可能有用。
I called a friend who connected Priscilla with a person in the Justice Department who specializes in these kinds of cases.
我打电话给一位朋友，他帮普里西拉联系了司法部一位专门处理此类案件的人。
Priscilla also needed Lenna, Allen, and O's physical address in the States so she could begin the Hague process.
Priscilla 还需要 Lenna、Allen 和 O 在美国的实际地址，以便她可以开始海牙程序。
This I could definitely help with.
这一点我绝对可以帮忙。
I knew that they'd left Cape Cod for New York, which is where I live.
我知道他们已经离开科德角前往纽约，那是我住的地方。
I invited my aunt, cousin, and nephew over for dinner.
我邀请我的阿姨、表弟和侄子来吃晚饭。
Allen was away on business, so Lenna arrived with O, who got conscripted into a human pyramid by the young people of my household.
艾伦出差去了，所以莱娜和 O 一起来了，O 被我家的年轻人征召入人金字塔。
As I slid turkey steaks into the oven, I asked Lenna the question all New York City parents ask all other New York City parents, where will O go to school?
当我把火鸡排放进烤箱时，我问莱娜所有纽约市家长都会问所有其他纽约市家长的问题：O 将在哪里上学？
He was about to turn six.
他快六岁了。
Lenna said that she had no idea how schools even functioned in the city.
莱娜说，她根本不知道学校在城里是如何运作的。
Do let me explain this to you, I said, and took out my phone.
“让我向你解释一下吧，”我说，然后拿出了手机。
What is your address?
你的地址是？
Let's see what district that is.
让我们看看那是哪个区。
Bingo.
宾果游戏。
I had their address.
我有他们的地址。
I sent it to Priscilla.
我把它寄给了普里西拉。
Some weeks later, apparently on a lark, they moved to Massachusetts.
几周后，显然是为了好玩，他们搬到了马萨诸塞州。
I figured out that address, too.
我也找到了那个地址。
I was a double agent now.
我现在是双重间谍了。
I tracked Lenna, Allen, and O through their Facebook posts, messages to the family chat, and occasional weekends at my father's house on Cape Cod.
我通过莱娜、艾伦和 O 的 Facebook 帖子、家庭聊天消息以及偶尔在科德角我父亲家里度过的周末来追踪他们。
When they moved to a new house, I let Priscilla know.
当他们搬到新家时，我通知了普里西拉。
If I had news about O, I texted Priscilla.
如果我有关于 O 的消息，我就会给 Priscilla 发短信。
Sometimes she'd just ask for reassurance that he was all right.
有时她只是要求他保证他一切都好。
From all the men in my family, my father, my three brothers, and my son, I hid the fact that I was in touch with Priscilla.
我向我家里的所有男人、我的父亲、我的三个兄弟和我的儿子隐瞒了我与普里西拉保持联系的事实。
I thought they'd see what I was doing as disloyal and might rat me out to Allen.
我以为他们会认为我的行为不忠诚，可能会将我出卖给艾伦。
My daughter knew.
我女儿知道。
It was a little bit exciting, but it also gave me an excuse for maintaining peace with my newly enlarged family.
这有点令人兴奋，但也给了我一个与新扩大的家庭保持和睦的借口。
But the more I hung out with them, the more I just hung out with them.
但我和他们一起玩得越多，我就越和他们一起玩。
O was growing.
O正在成长。
Allen and Lenna were building a life.
艾伦和莱娜正在建立自己的生活。
I watched.
我看了。
Sometimes I caught myself thinking that it was a pretty good life.
有时我发现自己觉得这样的生活很美好。
Allen, Lenna, and O moved into a farmhouse in Concord, Massachusetts.
艾伦、莱娜和 O 搬进了马萨诸塞州康科德市的一座农舍。
Lenna furnished it stylishly.
莱娜把它布置得很时尚。
They seemed to spend most of their time actively raising O.
他们似乎把大部分时间都花在积极抚养 O.
They enrolled him in Jewish school, violin lessons, fencing, horseback riding.
他们让他入读犹太学校，学习小提琴、击剑、骑马。
And I'm sure I'm still forgetting something.
我确信我仍然忘记了一些事情。
They dressed O like a tiny little gentleman, complete with brogues and fedora hats.
他们把 O 打扮得像个小绅士，穿着布洛克鞋，戴着软呢帽。
And by some sort of miracle, the result wasn't annoying.
奇迹般的是，结果并不令人烦恼。
O was a delight, curious, entertaining without being overbearing, and unfailingly polite.
O 是一个令人愉快、好奇、有趣但又不傲慢的人，而且总是很有礼貌。
He seemed happy.
他看起来很高兴。
Whatever damage being separated from his mother had done, I couldn't see it.
无论与他母亲分离给他造成了什么伤害，我都看不到。
What I could see was that he was doted on and thriving.
我能看到的是他被宠爱并且蒸蒸日上。
To put it another way, and it wasn't easy for me to admit that I was seeing this, Allen seemed like a great dad, kind, attentive, devoted, and fun.
换句话说，我很难承认我看到了这一点，艾伦似乎是一位伟大的父亲，善良、细心、忠诚且有趣。
Two years passed like this.
两年就这样过去了。
Eventually, Priscilla and L, who was now a toddler, made it to the United States.
最终，Priscilla 和 L（现在还是个蹒跚学步的孩子）到达了美国。
I hadn't messaged with Priscilla in over a year, but I heard from my father that Priscilla's claim, filed under the Hague Convention, was going to be heard in federal court in Boston.
我已经一年多没有和普里西拉发消息了，但我从父亲那里听说，普里西拉根据《海牙公约》提出的索赔将在波士顿联邦法院审理。
The case would probably drag on for a while, but I assumed that Priscilla would now be able to see her son.
这个案子可能会拖延一段时间，但我认为普里西拉现在可以见到她的儿子了。
And then there it was on social media.
然后它出现在社交媒体上。
Priscilla posted a picture of herself embracing O.
普里西拉发布了一张自己拥抱 O 的照片。
I liked the picture.
我喜欢这张照片。
I figured my job was done, my time as a double agent long over.
我想我的工作已经完成了，我作为双重间谍的时代早已结束了。
About four months later, Allen was arrested for kidnapping O.
大约四个月后，艾伦因绑架 O.
Not for the time he took O from Russia.
当他从俄罗斯带走O的时候就不是这样了。
This was new.
这是新的。
That incident, which I need to say, is still not the big shocking thing that rocked Masha's family.
我需要说的是，那件事仍然不是让玛莎一家震惊的大事。
That's coming up.
即将到来。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
This is American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Let's just pick up with M.
我们就来跟M聊聊吧。
Gessen's story where we left off-- Allen taking O a second time.
格森的故事是我们上次讲的——艾伦第二次拿下O。
Allen was arrested in Montreal at the airport when he, Lenna, and O were waiting to board a flight to London without, apparently, Priscilla's knowledge.
艾伦在蒙特利尔机场被捕，当时他、莱娜和 O 正在等待登机飞往伦敦，显然普里西拉并不知情。
This time Allen went to jail.
这一次艾伦入狱了。
But no, this arrest and what Allen did to get himself arrested weren't the things that shocked my family.
但不，这次逮捕以及艾伦为自己被捕所做的一切并不是让我家人感到震惊的事情。
We didn't exactly act like Allen's arrest was normal.
我们表现得并不像艾伦被捕是正常的。
We acted like it was absurd.
我们表现得好像这很荒谬。
I entertained my friends with stories of my serial kidnapper cousin.
我用我的连环绑架者表弟的故事来娱乐我的朋友。
Lenna kept the family updated with over-dramatic notes on the Facebook family chat, and at least one video from Canada in which Allen, wearing a striped uniform, sings her a Russian prison song.
莱娜在 Facebook 家庭聊天中向家人通报了一些过于戏剧性的消息，以及至少一段来自加拿大的视频，其中艾伦穿着条纹制服，给她唱了一首俄罗斯监狱歌曲。
[RUSSIAN SINGING] It looked like a cartoon.
[俄语演唱] 看起来像动画片。
Allen spent a couple of weeks in Canadian detention, then another few weeks in a jail in upstate New York, and was finally released on his own recognizance to await trial in Massachusetts.
艾伦在加拿大被拘留了几周，然后又在纽约州北部的监狱里呆了几周，最后在自己的担保下被释放，在马萨诸塞州等待审判。
O was now living with Priscilla.
O 现在和普里西拉住在一起。
Allen got out of jail in February 2022.
艾伦于 2022 年 2 月出狱。
A couple of months after that, he sent out a missive on the family chat, as self-important as the one that began this whole story.
几个月后，他在家庭聊天中发出了一封信，就像整个故事的开头一样自以为是。
This time, he was telling us that he and Priscilla had resolved their battle, which actually turned out to be true.
这一次，他告诉我们他和普里西拉已经解决了他们的争斗，事实证明这是真的。
They would now have shared custody of both kids.
他们现在将共同监护两个孩子。
Allen said he was very pleased.
艾伦表示他非常高兴。
I thought, my God, did you have to go through all this, absconding with your son twice, keeping him separated from his mother for more than two years, just to arrive at a standard 50/50 custody agreement?
我想，天哪，难道你必须经历这一切，带着你的儿子两次潜逃，让他和他的母亲分开两年多，只是为了达成一个标准的 50/50 监护权协议吗？
This, child support and shared custody, is the boring end of this crazy story?
这，子女抚养费和共同监护权，是这个疯狂故事的无聊结局吗？
I felt a little relieved and a little dumb, like maybe I bought too fully into other people's drama.
我感到有点松了口气，又有点傻，好像我太全神贯注于别人的戏剧了。
Kidnapping charges against Allen were pending.
针对艾伦的绑架指控悬而未决。
They would later be dropped.
它们后来将被丢弃。
And still, Priscilla was able to reach a peace agreement with Allen, after all he'd apparently put her and their son through.
尽管如此，普里西拉还是能够与艾伦达成和平协议，毕竟艾伦显然已经让她和他们的儿子度过了难关。
Well, maybe this was just the way they did things, with extreme flair.
好吧，也许这就是他们做事的方式，具有极高的天赋。
Then, yeah, a kind of exotic part started.
然后，是的，一种异国情调的部分开始了。
Then it happened.
然后事情发生了。
The thing, the bomb that went off in the middle of my family.
那件事，在我家人中间爆炸的炸弹。
So the day before, Allen called me and said that he promised his kids to take them camping.
所以前一天，艾伦打电话给我，说他答应他的孩子们带他们去露营。
July 2022.
2022 年 7 月。
Under the new custody arrangement, it was Allen's weekend with the kids.
根据新的监护权安排，这是艾伦和孩子们在一起的周末。
He asked my dad, hey, do you mind if me, my mom, and the kids camp out in your backyard on Cape Cod?
他问我爸爸，嘿，你介意我、我妈妈和孩子们在科德角你的后院露营吗？
I said, of course.
我说，当然。
So they came.
所以他们来了。
They brought some huge, huge tent.
他们带来了一些非常非常大的帐篷。
I never saw such a tent before, with a lot of furniture, and lights, and devices.
我以前从未见过这样的帐篷，有很多家具、灯光和设备。
Solar chargers, rugs, two full mattresses, a treasure trunk with, uh, treasures, I guess?
太阳能充电器、地毯、两个完整的床垫、一个宝箱，里面有，呃，宝藏，我猜？
It was very Allen-- awesome, spectacular, ridiculous.
这非常艾伦——很棒、壮观、荒唐。
Though later it occurred to me that this time, at least, there may have been a point to this.
但后来我想到，至少这一次，这样做可能是有道理的。
He wanted everyone to remember his camping trip to my father's backyard.
他希望每个人都记住他去我父亲后院的露营之旅。
Because it was summer, my father's house was full.
因为是夏天，爸爸家里挤满了人。
Two of my younger brothers, one of them with his girlfriend, were there.
我的两个弟弟，其中一个和他的女朋友也在场。
Everyone had a nice dinner together and then went to bed, some people in the house, and Allen, Lenna, and the kids in the tent.
每个人都一起吃了一顿丰盛的晚餐，然后就上床睡觉了，房子里有一些人，还有艾伦、莱娜和帐篷里的孩子们。
And then around 6:00 the next morning, the dog, Alton, started going nuts.
第二天早上 6:00 左右，这只名叫奥尔顿的狗开始发疯。
Someone was banging on the front door.
有人在敲前门。
So I opened the door a bit because not to let Alton out.
所以我把门开了一点，因为不让奥尔顿出去。
Also, I didn't put my trousers on yet.
而且我还没有穿裤子。
And the guy, the policeman said, we are state police.
那个人，警察说，我们是州警察。
Could you step out with your phone?
你能带着手机出去吗？
My dad is surprised, but he's not panicking.
我爸爸很惊讶，但他并不惊慌。
He goes to get his pants and his phone.
他去拿裤子和手机。
But by that time, because of all this noise and commotion and Alton's barking, Allosha woke up.
但就在那时，由于所有这些噪音和骚动以及奥尔顿的吠叫，阿洛沙醒了。
Allosha is my cousin's Russian diminutive.
阿洛沙是我表弟的俄语昵称。
Allen, and he came to the house to see what is going on.
艾伦和他来到家里看看发生了什么事。
And the police figured out that they are looking for him and not for me.
警察发现他们正在寻找他而不是我。
FBI agents go around the house, banging on doors, and make everyone sit down on the couches in the living room.
联邦调查局特工在房子里走来走去，敲门，让每个人都坐在客厅的沙发上。
No one understands what's going on.
没有人明白发生了什么事。
But soon, through the picture windows that look out on the backyard, they see two male FBI agents take Allen away in handcuffs.
但很快，透过后院的观景窗，他们看到两名联邦调查局男性特工戴着手铐将艾伦带走。
Then a female agent escorts the kids to another car.
然后一名女特工护送孩子们到另一辆车上。
They all drive off.
他们都开车走了。
State troopers follow.
州警紧随其后。
Lenna leaves too.
莱娜也离开了。
And did you know, once everybody left, did you have any idea what he had been arrested for?
你知道吗，当所有人都离开后，你知道他因什么而被捕吗？
Not immediately, but then I learned from Lenna about that.
不是立即，但后来我从莱娜那里得知了这一点。
She was-- she was totally lost.
她——她完全迷失了。
But the only thing she knew that what was in this paper they gave her.
但她唯一知道的是他们给她的这张纸上的内容。
What was in the paper?
报纸上写的是什么？
Alex Well, that he is arrested for-- I don't remember.
亚历克斯：好吧，他是因为——我不记得了而被捕的。
But murder for hire was there.
但雇佣谋杀是存在的。
Yes.
是的。
And did you have any idea who he might have hired somebody to murder?
你知道他可能雇人谋杀谁吗？
Uh, it didn't take long.
呃，没花多久。
M.
M。
Gessen It was Priscilla.
格森：是普里西拉。
Allen, it seemed, had hired someone to kill Priscilla.
艾伦似乎雇了人来杀死普里西拉。
The question was if it was true or not.
问题是这是否属实。
That's another story.
那是另一个故事了。
Some of us took the news in faster than others.
我们中的一些人比其他人更快地接受了这个消息。
The day after Allen's arrest, my brother Keith and I had a fight over the Justice Department press release, which identified the target only as PC.
艾伦被捕的第二天，我和我的兄弟基思就司法部的新闻稿发生了争执，该新闻稿仅将目标确定为 PC。
I was saying that it was obviously Priscilla, whose last name begins with a C.
我是说这显然是 Priscilla，她的姓氏以 C 开头。
He was saying that it was obviously not Priscilla.
他说这显然不是普里西拉。
Lenna kept telling everyone that Allen had been set up by business rivals, or Russian agents, or the FBI, or someone.
莱娜不断地告诉大家，艾伦是被商业竞争对手、俄罗斯特工、联邦调查局或其他人陷害的。
But over the course of a few days, it sank in.
但几天下来，它就陷入了困境。
My cousin had been caught hiring someone to murder his ex-wife, the mother of his children.
我的表弟被发现雇人谋杀他的前妻，也就是他孩子们的母亲。
This was when it felt like we snapped.
就在那时，我们感觉像是崩溃了。
I certainly snapped.
我当然厉声说道。
I was shocked at how shocked I was.
我对自己的震惊程度感到震惊。
It's not that I felt bad for Allen or Lenna.
这并不是说我为艾伦或莱娜感到难过。
It's just, how does something like this happen?
只是，怎么会发生这样的事情呢？
How had it happened right here in my family, in between our silly dinners, and chess games, and kids' birthday parties?
在我们愚蠢的晚餐、下棋和孩子们的生日聚会之间，这件事是怎么发生在我家里的？
In theory, I knew that this kind of thing can happen in any family.
从理论上讲，我知道这种事情可能发生在任何家庭中。
Anyone's first cousin could be plotting murder.
任何人的表弟都可能策划谋杀。
Upstanding citizens are always turning out to be secret criminals, and I wouldn't even call Allen an upstanding citizen.
正直的公民总是会成为秘密罪犯，我什至不会称艾伦为正直的公民。
But it's one thing to know and another thing to understand.
但知道是一回事，理解又是另一回事。
I'm a reporter.
我是一名记者。
At some of the hardest times in my life, when I faced a dire medical diagnosis, I put on my reporter's hat and asked everyone a lot of questions.
在我生命中最困难的时候，当我面临可怕的医疗诊断时，我戴上记者的帽子，问了每个人很多问题。
It has allowed me to wrap my mind around unthinkable things before.
它让我能够思考以前无法想象的事情。
Allen was in jail awaiting trial, so my project had to begin with Priscilla, who was thankfully alive.
艾伦在监狱里等待审判，所以我的项目必须从普里西拉开始，幸好她还活着。
What she told me was so much worse than what I thought I knew.
她告诉我的事情比我自以为知道的要糟糕得多。
That's next time.
那是下次了。
From Serial Productions and The New York Times I'm M.
来自 Serial Productions 和纽约时报 我是 M.
Gessen, and this is The Idiot.
格森，这是白痴。
OK, so that is the first episode of your new podcast, The Idiot.
好的，这就是您的新播客《白痴》的第一集。
Does Allen know the name of the show yet?
艾伦知道这部剧的名字吗？
You know-- I mean, obviously there are some parts of that title that might be appealing to Allen.
你知道——我的意思是，显然这个标题的某些部分可能会吸引艾伦。
It's reference to a classic work of Russian literature.
它参考了俄罗斯文学的一部经典作品。
Dostoyevsky.
陀思妥耶夫斯基。
M.
M。
Gessen Dostoyevsky's novel, The Idiot.
格森·陀思妥耶夫斯基的小说《白痴》。
And I think there's a little bit of kindness in that title.
我认为这个标题有一点善意。
I think that I'm giving him the grace of perceiving what he did is just an incredibly dumb thing, and not only a very scary, mean, and evil thing.
我认为我正在给他恩典，让他认识到自己所做的事情只是一件极其愚蠢的事情，而且不仅仅是一件非常可怕、卑鄙和邪恶的事情。
And also, he's very lucky that he was bad enough at trying to hire a killer that everyone, in the end, is alive, and he's serving only a 10-year sentence.
而且，他很幸运，他在试图雇佣一名杀手时表现得足够糟糕，最终每个人都还活着，而他只服了 10 年徒刑。
Yeah.
是的。
So after that, you began reporting, and as you say at the end of episode one, you start with Priscilla.
所以在那之后，你开始报道，正如你在第一集结尾所说的，你从普里西拉开始。
What happens?
会发生什么？
I'd only met Priscilla a couple of times in my life.
我一生只见过普里西拉几次。
I didn't know her.
我不认识她。
I just knew she was this sort of beautiful, poised woman who'd been through hell at this point and had come to the US to try to get custody back of her child.
我只知道她是一位美丽、泰然自若的女人，此时经历了地狱般的痛苦，来到美国试图夺回孩子的监护权。
But I didn't know how the story had unfolded for her.
但我不知道她的故事是如何展开的。
So let me play an excerpt from that conversation.
让我播放该对话的摘录。
I started with something that had mystified me for a long time.
我从长期以来令我困惑的事情开始。
So can you tell me what you saw in Allen when you first met him?
那么你能告诉我当你第一次见到艾伦时你在他身上看到了什么吗？
[LAUGHS] Wow.
[笑]哇。
I think, like most people that meet him, the first time you meet him, he's very charismatic.
我认为，就像大多数见到他的人一样，当你第一次见到他时，他非常有魅力。
This was 2011 at a party in Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe.
这是2011年津巴布韦首都哈拉雷的一次聚会。
Allen was there on business, scoping out investment opportunities for Ukrainian oligarchs.
艾伦在那里出差，为乌克兰寡头寻找投资机会。
He was hustling.
他很忙碌。
As my son described him once, he was an egg who knows how to talk to people.
正如我儿子曾经形容他的那样，他是一个懂得如何与人交谈的鸡蛋。
And did that seem appealing?
这看起来有吸引力吗？
Priscilla It did.
普里西拉 确实如此。
I'll be honest, I was 30 when I met him.
说实话，我认识他的时候已经30岁了。
It seemed very appealing, and it was very different from anybody that I had met.
它看起来非常吸引人，而且与我见过的任何人都非常不同。
So different was interesting.
如此不同很有趣。
He came from a very different part of the world, which I knew nothing about, which was also exciting in its own regard.
他来自世界上一个非常不同的地方，我对此一无所知，但就其本身而言也令人兴奋。
It wasn't just exciting.
这不仅仅是令人兴奋。
It was convenient in a way.
从某种程度上来说这很方便。
Allen was unreadable to Priscilla the way someone from Zimbabwe might be.
普里西拉无法理解艾伦，就像津巴布韦人一样。
She could project her desires onto him, including her desire for success.
她可以把自己的欲望投射到他身上，包括她对成功的渴望。
Priscilla was working at a new lifestyle magazine and had launched Zimbabwe's annual Fashion Week.
普里西拉当时在一家新的生活方式杂志工作，并发起了津巴布韦的年度时装周。
She wanted a life that was big and fast, like Allen's.
她想要像艾伦一样的充实而快速的生活。
And it's true that Allen seemed to know how to make big, fast money and spend it.
确实，艾伦似乎知道如何快速赚大钱并花掉它。
It's like, oh, let's go to Joburg.
就像，哦，我们去约堡吧。
I'm like, OK.
我想，好吧。
You get up and you go, just at the drop of a hat.
你站起来就走，就那么一瞬间。
And then we would go here and there, and here and there.
然后我们会到处走走，到处走走。
So it was very exciting.
所以这非常令人兴奋。
The only strange thing that happened at the beginning of our relationship when his mom came.
我们关系刚开始时发生的唯一奇怪的事情是他妈妈来的时候。
Right.
正确的。
One of those hiccups that happen early on in a romance and should raise a giant red flag, but somehow never do.
恋爱初期发生的小问题之一应该会引起巨大的危险信号，但不知怎的却从未出现过。
My aunt Lenna came to visit a few months into their relationship.
他们交往几个月后，我姨妈莱娜来拜访。
She joined Allen and Priscilla on a trip to the countryside.
她与艾伦和普里西拉一起去乡村旅行。
We went on a trip to Kariba.
我们去卡里巴旅行。
It's a big lake in Zimbabwe.
这是津巴布韦的一个大湖。
And I think it was like on the second day or something.
我想就像是第二天或者什么的。
We had a disagreement, like a fight.
我们发生了分歧，就像打架一样。
And he left our room and I didn't know that he had done this, but he went to his mom's room.
他离开了我们的房间，我不知道他做了这件事，但他去了他妈妈的房间。
And I found him later, I was walking past her room and she had these doors that opened out.
后来我找到了他，当时我正走过她的房间，她的门是开着的。
So I just looked in and I saw him, like lying on her bed, and she was like, lying there, like stroking his hair.
所以我只是往里看，我看到他，就像躺在她的床上，而她就像躺在那里，就像抚摸着他的头发。
I found that-- well, his head.
我发现了——嗯，是他的头。
I found that so weird.
我发现这很奇怪。
I was like, wow, this is a grown man.
我当时想，哇，这是一个成年人。
And it seemed a little too intimate for me.
这对我来说似乎有点太亲密了。
In my culture, I guess maybe because we're very distant, you don't even hug.
在我的文化中，我想也许是因为我们距离很远，所以你甚至不会拥抱。
Like you wouldn't hug your father, because it's a little too intimate.
就像你不会拥抱你的父亲一样，因为这有点太亲密了。
So for an adult to be lying on his mother's bed, and for her to actually be, it just seemed very peculiar.
因此，对于一个成年人来说，躺在他母亲的床上，而她确实躺在床上，这似乎很奇怪。
I saw that, and I was like, OK.
我看到了，我想，好吧。
And as the series unfolds, Lenna and Allen's relationship is one of the things that you talk about more.
随着剧集的展开，莱娜和艾伦的关系是你谈论最多的事情之一。
Did you talk to Lenna for this story?
你和 Lenna 谈过这个故事吗？
I didn't.
我没有。
She didn't want to talk to me.
她不想和我说话。
And so you're interviewing Priscilla.
所以你正在采访普里西拉。
And the stories that she's telling you, you knew the basic plot points of-- the first time they took O, the second time they took O.
她告诉你的故事，你知道基本情节点——他们第一次拿走O，第二次拿走O。
What did you learn that you hadn't known?
你学到了什么你不知道的事情？
So now I realize that knowing those two plot points, which were two and a half years apart, is a little bit like knowing the date the war began and the date the war ended.
所以现在我意识到，知道这两个相隔两年半的情节点有点像知道战争开始的日期和战争结束的日期。
And like, I didn't know about all the carnage that had happened in between.
就像，我不知道其间发生的所有屠杀。
At first, she was stranded in Moscow.
起初，她被困在莫斯科。
She didn't really have any way to support herself in Moscow.
她在莫斯科确实没有任何办法养活自己。
She's a Zimbabwean woman who doesn't speak Russian.
她是一位不会说俄语的津巴布韦妇女。
And that dragged on for months.
这持续了几个月。
And then she got back to Zimbabwe.
然后她回到了津巴布韦。
She thought she was getting back to her regular life, from which she was going to try to make it to the US to get O back.
她以为自己已经回到了正常的生活，她打算设法去美国把 O 找回来。
And then things just start happening to her in Zimbabwe.
然后在津巴布韦，事情就开始发生在她身上。
She gets beaten up by thugs.
她被暴徒殴打。
She gets picked up on drug charges.
她因毒品指控被捕。
She gets picked up again and thrown into prison for two weeks.
她再次被抓起来并被关进监狱两周。
And she thinks that Allen is behind all of this.
她认为艾伦是这一切的幕后黑手。
Allen denies that he had any involvement.
艾伦否认自己有任何参与。
And then eventually, she goes through all of this, and she eventually gets to the United States, right?
最终，她经历了这一切，最终到达了美国，对吗？
She eventually gets to the United States.
她最终到达了美国。
It doesn't mean that she's going to get custody or even visits with her son because at this point, it's been two and a half years.
这并不意味着她会获得监护权，甚至不会探望儿子，因为此时已经过去两年半了。
But she does get to see him for the first time since he was taken from her.
但自从他被从她身边带走后，她确实第一次见到他。
Oh my God, so from five to eight, she hadn't seen him?
天啊，这么五点到八点，她都没见过他？
And also, she doesn't know what his grandmother and his father have been telling him about her.
而且，她也不知道他的祖母和父亲告诉他关于她的事情。
Yeah, let's play an excerpt of this part of the episode.
是的，让我们播放一下这一部分的片段。
So this is Priscilla explaining about seeing her son for the first time after that two-year year absence.
这是普里西拉讲述的关于她缺席两年后第一次见到儿子的事。
When did you see him for the first time?
你第一次见到他是什么时候？
I saw him that weekend on the Sunday for the first time.
我第一次见到他是在那个周末的周日。
It's so strange.
太奇怪了。
I almost can't remember how I felt.
我几乎记不起当时的感受。
I know I didn't cry.
我知道我没有哭。
I couldn't cry.
我哭不出来。
I think I just looked at him.
我想我只是看着他。
I just stared at him for a while.
我只是盯着他看了一会儿。
Can you describe that meeting?
你能描述一下那次会议吗？
I mean, you had to meet outside, I think, right?
我的意思是，我想你们必须在外面见面，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
We met at a little tea house in the town where Allen was living, Concord.
我们在艾伦居住的康科德镇的一家小茶馆见面。
It's called Concord Tea Cakes, actually.
实际上，它的名字叫协和茶饼。
So he was sitting outside.
所以他坐在外面。
I saw him sitting there, and he was sitting by himself.
我看到他坐在那里，而且是他一个人坐在那儿。
Allen was inside the shop.
艾伦在店里。
When I approached him, I could actually see that he was shaking.
当我走近他时，我确实看到他在发抖。
He just seemed so small and so scared.
他只是显得那么渺小，那么害怕。
What had her little boy been thinking for the past two years?
这两年，她的小儿子到底在想什么？
Why did he think his mother wasn't with him?
为什么他认为他的母亲不在他身边？
What had Allen told him?
艾伦告诉了他什么？
O knew that Priscilla had been in prison.
O 知道普里西拉已经入狱了。
What other stories about her had taken hold in his mind?
他的脑海中还浮现过哪些关于她的故事？
And I kind of felt-- I felt helpless in a way, you know?
我有点觉得——我在某种程度上感到无助，你知道吗？
I just said, hi.
我只是说，嗨。
I didn't try to touch him because I could tell that he was scared.
我没有试图碰他，因为我看得出来他很害怕。
So I just said, hi.
所以我只是说，嗨。
And then I just sat next to him, and I let him come to me.
然后我就坐在他旁边，让他来找我。
Do you remember anything he said to you?
你还记得他对你说过什么吗？
He asked me for this porridge that he used to like.
他向我要了他以前喜欢喝的这种粥。
He had loved it since he was a baby, and he called it blue porridge.
他从小就喜欢吃，称之为蓝粥。
He just said to me, did you bring blue porridge?
他就对我说，你带蓝粥来了吗？
I said, yeah.
我说，是的。
They make it in Zimbabwe.
他们在津巴布韦成功。
And I had carried it with me.
我随身带着它。
He asked me to make it for him, immediately.
他让我立即为他做。
And I did, like in a little cup with warm water.
我做到了，就像在一个装有温水的小杯子里一样。
I made it for him and he ate it.
我给他做了，他吃了。
And yeah, I knew that he would slowly remember me and things would get back to where they were, if he could remember simple things like that.
是的，我知道他会慢慢记住我，如果他能记住这样简单的事情，事情就会回到原来的样子。
Yeah.
是的。
That was just so heartbreaking to listen and to imagine.
听起来和想象起来真是令人心碎。
Yeah.
是的。
And then you also talked about the second time Allen and Lenna take O, the one for which he was charged with kidnapping.
然后你还谈到了艾伦和莱娜第二次带走 O，他被指控绑架。
Yeah.
是的。
So this is the scene at the Montreal airport where they think they're going to board a flight to London, and instead Allen gets arrested.
这是蒙特利尔机场的一幕，他们以为自己要登上飞往伦敦的航班，但艾伦却被捕了。
And it had been reduced to this ridiculous story that Lenna told in this over-the-top way.
而这一切都被简化成了莱娜以这种夸张的方式讲述的荒唐故事。
And I would quote from her wacky Facebook messages-- to close friends.
我会引用她在 Facebook 上发给亲密朋友的古怪消息。
Yeah.
是的。
M.
M。
Gessen And hearing the story from Priscilla's perspective, which is really O's perspective, just how absolutely terrifying it was for him.
格森 从普里西拉的角度听这个故事，这实际上是 O 的角度，这对他来说绝对是可怕的。
He's a little boy.
他是个小男孩。
That's his dad, who gets tackled by several armed, uniformed men and thrown to the ground.
那是他的父亲，他被几个身穿制服的武装人员制服并摔倒在地。
He gets dragged off.
他被拖走了。
O gets taken into foster care for two days before Priscilla can come and pick him up.
O 被送往寄养中心两天，然后 Priscilla 才能来接他。
And again, she's separated from him.
又一次，她和他分开了。
Like, it's the distance.
比如说，这就是距离。
It's the International border.
这是国际边界。
It's just the pain of it is kind of unbearable.
只是那种痛苦实在是难以忍受。
Yeah.
是的。
And so then another thing that you did in your reporting is that you went to Allen's trial for attempted murder.
那么你在报道中所做的另一件事就是你因谋杀未遂而接受艾伦的审判。
So the trial didn't happen for another 10 months, which is pretty normal.
所以又过了10个月才进行审判，这很正常。
It's in federal court in San Francisco.
这是在旧金山的联邦法院。
So I went to the trial.
于是我就去受审了。
And by that point, I think I fully believed that Allen had taken out a hit on Priscilla.
到那时，我想我完全相信艾伦已经对普里西拉进行了打击。
I had tried and convicted him in my mind.
我曾在心里尝试过并给他定罪。
But I think most other members of my family, including Priscilla, were waiting for something to emerge during the trial that would make it easier to take, something that would make it seem like not such a horrible thing.
但我认为我家人的大多数其他成员，包括普里西拉，都在等待审判期间出现一些东西，让事情变得更容易接受，让事情看起来不那么可怕。
Like maybe it wasn't true, or maybe it was true in some way that it wasn't quite so bad?
也许这不是真的，或者也许在某种程度上是真的，但情况并没有那么糟糕？
Which I can't imagine what it would be.
我无法想象那会是什么。
And I'm not sure they could either, but they were sort of holding out hope that something would explain it away.
我也不确定他们是否可以，但他们还是抱有希望，希望有什么东西可以解释这一点。
Did you go to Allen's trial partly to convince your family of his guilt?
你参加艾伦的审判的部分原因是为了让你的家人相信他有罪吗？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Ira Glass I have to say that makes this podcast so different from any podcast I've ever heard, that it has this second mission, in addition to the mission of let's find out the truth of what happened.
Ira Glass 我不得不说，这使得这个播客与我听过的任何播客如此不同，除了让我们找出所发生事件的真相之外，它还有第二个任务。
It's so directed at your family to nail this down so everybody can agree on the truth.
它是如此直接地要求你的家人把这件事敲定下来，以便每个人都能就事实达成一致。
Well, it's important in a family to have a common truth, especially about your relatives.
嗯，在一个家庭中拥有共同的真理很重要，尤其是关于你的亲戚。
But it got weirder as it went on.
但随着事情的发展，事情变得越来越奇怪。
OK, so let's just take a break.
好吧，我们休息一下吧。
And when we come back, we'll go to the trial, which includes recordings of Allen arranging for the hit, which feel, I have to say, way less like The Sopranos and way more like Parks and Rec.
当我们回来时，我们将进行审判，其中包括艾伦为热门歌曲进行安排的录音，我不得不说，这感觉不像黑道家族，而更像帕克斯和休闲中心。
All of that will be in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，所有这些都将在一分钟内由芝加哥公共广播电台播出。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, The Idiot.
今天的节目是《白痴》。
We're playing excerpts from M.
我们正在播放《M》的节选。
Gessen's new podcast, new Serial podcast called The Idiot.
格森的新播客，新的连续播客称为“白痴”。
And M.
和M。
Is here with me.
就在我身边。
And so now we get to an incredible part of the story, which is the trial, because for the first time, Masha, you get to hear the details of how Allen arranged for the hit on his own wife, and you actually get to hear the undercover recordings of Allen meeting with the supposed hitman, who's actually an FBI agent.
现在我们进入了故事中令人难以置信的部分，那就是审判，因为玛莎，你第一次听到艾伦如何安排袭击他自己的妻子的细节，并且你实际上听到艾伦与所谓的杀手会面的卧底录音，他实际上是一名联邦调查局特工。
And just explain, why was this FBI man meeting with Allen in the first place?
请解释一下，为什么这位联邦调查局人员首先会见艾伦？
So this is something that began as a money laundering investigation into this guy named Alex Kisolov, who was one of Allen's business partners.
这是对艾伦商业伙伴之一、名叫亚历克斯·基索洛夫（Alex Kisolov）的人进行洗钱调查的开始。
And then this business partner asks one of these agents, who he thinks is a mobster, but also maybe connected to the government somehow-- it's not clear what he thinks the guy is.
然后，这位商业伙伴询问了其中一名特工，他认为他是一名黑帮，但也可能以某种方式与政府有联系——目前还不清楚他认为这个人是什么。
So the business partner asks them to help Allen out because Allen has a problem with his ex-wife.
因此，商业伙伴要求他们帮助艾伦，因为艾伦与他的前妻有问题。
And that's how we get to this meeting between Allen and the undercover, who is going by the name David.
这就是我们如何进行艾伦和卧底（名叫大卫）之间的会面。
And so Allen thinks that he's meeting with David to arrange to bribe a government official to get Priscilla deported.
因此艾伦认为他正在与大卫会面，安排贿赂一名政府官员以将普里西拉驱逐出境。
This is UCE 4-7-3-5, and today is Thursday, June 2, 2022.
这是 UCE 4-7-3-5，今天是 2022 年 6 月 2 日星期四。
It's approximately 11:55 AM, and this is a recording with Allen Gessen.
现在大约是上午 11:55，这是 Allen Gessen 的录音。
The meeting is taking place at the Boca Raton Resort, Boca Raton, Florida.
会议在佛罗里达州博卡拉顿的博卡拉顿度假村举行。
David had told Allen to meet him at the Boca Raton in Boca Raton-- you know those places that added "The" to the name of the actual place to indicate that it's everything you ever imagined, but so much more.
大卫告诉艾伦在博卡拉顿的博卡拉顿与他见面——你知道那些在实际地点的名称中添加“The”的地方，表明这里有你所想象的一切，但还有更多。
This resort has 19 bars and restaurants and four beach options.
该度假村拥有 19 间酒吧和餐厅以及 4 个海滩场所。
The Boca Raton.
博卡拉顿。
Allen drives up in a white rental car, an Audi sedan.
艾伦开着一辆租来的白色奥迪轿车。
The jury was shown surveillance photos.
陪审团看到了监控照片。
He meets David in the lobby, which is like an Italian castle, Florida version.
他在大厅遇见了大卫，大厅就像佛罗里达版的意大利城堡。
David is wearing a wire, which as you're about to hear, is not great for field recording.
大卫戴着一根电线，正如您即将听到的那样，这不适合现场录音。
Good.
好的。
M.
M。
Gessen They fist bump.
格森 他们碰拳。
Allen is wearing what looks like a black cashmere sweater.
艾伦穿着一件看起来像黑色羊绒衫的衣服。
David is dressed in all black, polo shirt, shiny, pointy black shoes.
大卫穿着全黑的 Polo 衫，脚踩闪亮的尖头黑鞋。
They're not dressed for Florida.
他们穿的衣服不是去佛罗里达的。
Everyone around them is wearing light colors, but they're dressed to perform their roles.
他们周围的每个人都穿着浅色衣服，但他们的穿着是为了履行自己的角色。
Allen is being international man of mystery.
艾伦是一位国际神秘人。
David is going full mafioso.
大卫彻底变成黑手党了。
They're macho.
他们很有男子气概。
They're gangsters.
他们是黑帮。
They are The Allen and The David at The Boca Raton.
他们是博卡拉顿酒店的 The Allen 和 The David。
I realized my picture had a period than this.
我意识到我的照片有比这更久远的时期。
They take a shuttle to one of The Boca Raton's restaurants, the Marisol, where the seating is couches in earth tones and the view is beach umbrellas as far as the eye can see.
他们乘坐班车前往博卡拉顿酒店的一家餐厅 Marisol，那里的座位是土色系的沙发，放眼望去都是海滩遮阳伞。
On the way, Allen summarizes his very impressive career.
途中，艾伦总结了他令人印象深刻的职业生涯。
In 2010, I started a massive diamond mining project in South Africa, [INAUDIBLE] Congo, Angola, and Namibia.
2010 年，我在南非、[听不清]刚果、安哥拉和纳米比亚启动了一个大型钻石开采项目。
We had several miles--
我们有几英里——
Millions of dollars, some misadventures, and a triumph or two later, Allen gets to the story of his marriage.
数百万美元，一些不幸的遭遇，以及一两次的胜利之后，艾伦开始讲述他的婚姻故事。
But I got-- but I went to Zimbabwe once to explore some opportunities there and met this incredibly beautiful woman, which was the end of me.
但我有一次去津巴布韦探索那里的一些机会并遇到了这位非常美丽的女人，这就是我的终结。
Listen, I always say it's the bitches that'll get you.
听着，我总是说，是那些母狗才会抓到你。
It sounds like your problem.
听起来像是你的问题。
Yeah.
是的。
David testified in court that the character he was playing was crass.
大卫在法庭上作证说，他所扮演的角色很粗鲁。
He seemed to have that part down.
他似乎已经把那部分放下了。
At the restaurant, it's David's turn to talk about how impressive and real he is.
在餐厅里，轮到大卫谈论他是多么令人印象深刻和真实。
So we have a lot of, obviously, business in South America.
显然，我们在南美有很多业务。
I'm sure Alex has told you.
我确信亚历克斯已经告诉过你了。
So my clients are in Cartagena.
所以我的客户在卡塔赫纳。
They're all-- I'm going to tell you right now, they're all cartel-level guys.
他们都是——我现在就告诉你，他们都是卡特尔级别的人。
They're all badasses.
他们都是坏蛋。
They are the real deal.
他们是货真价实的。
When I talk-- they don't have "fuck you" money.
当我说话时——他们没有“去你妈的”钱。
They have "fuck everyone" money.
他们有“去他妈的所有人”的钱。
You're talking hundreds of millions of dollars.
你说的是数亿美元。
I don't touch the product side.
我不接触产品方面。
I don't want to-- I don't want to have anything fucking to do with the fucking coke.
我不想——我不想和这该死的可乐有任何他妈的关系。
I don't want to do anything with any of that shit.
我不想对这些狗屎做任何事。
But I just do the money stuff.
但我只做有钱的事。
I set up companies and we launder money and that's it.
我成立了公司，然后我们洗钱，仅此而已。
And it's been great.
这很棒。
I've been doing it for 15, 20 years.
我已经这样做了15年、20年了。
Having established they're gangster bonafides, Allen and the undercover talk business.
确定他们是真正的黑帮后，艾伦和卧底谈话。
There are two items on the agenda, the bulletproof vest factory Allen wants to build, and Priscilla.
议程上有两个项目，艾伦想要建造的防弹背心工厂，以及普里西拉。
Look, I understand through Alex that you have some problems.
听着，我通过亚历克斯了解到你有一些问题。
I get it.
我得到它。
We have a solution for you.
我们为您提供解决方案。
But I guess the question is, in a perfect world, tell me what you want.
但我想问题是，在完美的世界里，告诉我你想要什么。
Tell me what you, like-- and there's a blank slate.
告诉我你喜欢什么——然后就一片空白了。
Just tell me what you want.
只要告诉我你想要什么。
Allen says he wants Priscilla deported.
艾伦说他希望普里西拉被驱逐出境。
He needs this for peace of mind.
他需要这个来让自己安心。
All right.
好的。
M.
M。
Gessen He doesn't want her to, quote, "be able to come and harass us ever again." He then explains what he means by harass.
Gessen 他不想让她“再次来骚扰我们。”然后他解释了骚扰的含义。
A few months earlier, Priscilla had the nerve to tell the police that he had kidnapped O.
几个月前，普里西拉有勇气告诉警方，他绑架了 O。
But he had in fact been arrested for taking O across the border to Canada and spent five weeks in jail, and was now awaiting trial on kidnapping charges.
但事实上，他因带 O 穿越边境前往加拿大而被捕，并在监狱里度过了五个星期，目前正在等待绑架指控的审判。
He tells David, let's just say that I'm a little bit pissed off.
他告诉大卫，我只是有点生气。
Let's just say that I'm a little bit pissed off.
就说我有点生气吧。
But it's a woman who will go the length of the world to make my life miserable.
但这个女人却会不遗余力地让我的生活变得悲惨。
Yeah.
是的。
M.
M。
Gessen "But it's a woman who will go the length of the world to make my life miserable," Allen says.
格森“但这个女人会不辞辛劳地让我的生活变得悲惨，”艾伦说。
Women, am I right?
女士们，我说得对吗？
Yeah I'm telling you, man.
是的，我告诉你，伙计。
Yeah, like I said, historically, over time, men have made the worst decisions, you know, when it comes to women.
是的，就像我说的，从历史上看，随着时间的推移，当涉及到女性时，男性做出了最糟糕的决定。
You know, I don't know what it is, that aphrodisiac, it's that weakness, our Achilles heel.
你知道，我不知道那是什么，那春药，那是弱点，我们的致命弱点。
But yeah, I understand that.
但是，是的，我明白这一点。
I wish I'd have known you earlier, because a lot of that shit we could have cleaned up.
我希望我早点认识你，因为我们本来可以清理掉很多垃圾。
There's no doubt about that.
毫无疑问。
Let's just put it this way, that would never have happened in my family.
这么说吧，这种事在我家里是绝对不会发生的。
Amid all this, bro-y, gangstery, hot air, the vaguest outlines of a plan appear.
在这一切之中，兄弟、黑帮、热议，一个计划的最模糊的轮廓出现了。
A bribe will be paid.
将会行贿。
Some government officials will pull some strings, and Priscilla will be ordered to leave the country.
一些政府官员会幕后操纵，普里西拉将被勒令离开该国。
And it will cost $100,000.
它将花费 100,000 美元。
At first, Allen seems taken aback by the price tag.
起初，艾伦似乎对价格标签感到惊讶。
OK.
好的。
Allen Now, I'll need to check with Alex because he was going to handle the material side of things.
艾伦现在，我需要与亚历克斯核实一下，因为他要处理事情的物质方面。
Because he never mentioned to me any-- like, he didn't mention to me the payment side.
因为他从未向我提及过任何事情，例如，他没有向我提及付款方面。
Kisolov didn't discuss the money with Allen, he explains, but he quickly recovers from the sticker shock.
基索洛夫解释说，他没有与艾伦讨论这笔钱，但他很快就从价格冲击中恢复过来。
OK.
好的。
Allen For what it's worth.
艾伦 无论它的价值如何。
So there's no question that it's--
所以毫无疑问它是——
A good investment.
一个很好的投资。
Allen's done the math.
艾伦已经算好了。
He'd pay more in child support.
他会支付更多的子女抚养费。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
You would.
你会的。
Yeah, I can guarantee you.
是的，我可以向你保证。
After everything Priscilla had gone through to get to the US to see her son again, Allen was going to send her back to Zimbabwe.
在普里西拉经历了一切才能再次前往美国看望她的儿子之后，艾伦打算将她送回津巴布韦。
After everything O had gone through, being separated from his mother for two and a half years, meeting her again, watching his father get arrested, going to live with his mother and a sister he barely knew, Allen was going to yank him away from Priscilla again.
在O经历了一切之后，与他的母亲分开两年半，再次见到她，看着他的父亲被捕，与他的母亲和一个他几乎不认识的妹妹住在一起，艾伦准备再次把他从普里西拉身边拉走。
And he was going to deprive L, who was three, of the only parent she had ever known, all for the eminently reasonable price of $100,000.
他还要以 10 万美元这一极其合理的价格，剥夺三岁的 L 唯一认识的父母。
And we hadn't even gotten to the murder-for-hire plot yet.
我们甚至还没有谈到雇佣谋杀的情节。
So on the tape, Allen and David move on to the details of the bulletproof vest factory scheme.
因此，在录音中，艾伦和大卫继续讨论防弹背心工厂计划的细节。
This part of the conversation goes a little less smoothly.
谈话的这一部分有点不太顺利。
Allen had it all figured out.
艾伦已经把一切都弄清楚了。
They'd get US government funding and build a factory, and he thought David was in a position to get him that money.
他们将获得美国政府的资助并建造一家工厂，他认为大卫有能力为他拿到这笔钱。
David, though, is much more interested in the bribe part.
不过，大卫对贿赂部分更感兴趣。
In court, he testified that he went to the meeting expecting to talk about the deportation scheme, not the factory, but he is nimble.
在法庭上，他作证说，他参加会议的目的是谈论驱逐计划，而不是工厂，但他很灵活。
He tells Allen that he could bring in money from the Colombian drug cartels to invest in the factory.
他告诉艾伦，他可以从哥伦比亚贩毒集团那里筹集资金来投资工厂。
Remember, the FBI has been trying for years to get Kisolov and now Allen on money laundering.
请记住，联邦调查局多年来一直试图让基索洛夫和现在的艾伦涉嫌洗钱。
But Allen isn't really incriminating himself.
但艾伦并没有真正让自己有罪。
He actually expresses some concerns about the drug money.
他实际上表达了对毒资的一些担忧。
After an hour or so, the conversation turns back to Priscilla.
大约一个小时后，话题又回到了普里西拉身上。
Allen says, quote, "the first order of business is to get her the fuck out of here," end quote.
艾伦说，“首要任务就是让她离开这里，”最后引用。
To get Priscilla deported, or-- and this is where he suddenly, offhandedly, turns the conversation in a different direction.
为了让普里西拉被驱逐出境，或者——这就是他突然、不经意地把谈话转向另一个方向的地方。
This is the heart of the prosecution's case.
这是检方案件的核心。
Let's listen carefully.
我们来仔细听一下。
Yeah.
是的。
Allen Incidentally, if there's a cheaper way to get rid of her, I'm happy to do it, of course.
艾伦顺便说一句，如果有更便宜的方法摆脱她，我当然很乐意这样做。
If there's a cheaper way to get rid of her.
如果有更便宜的方法可以摆脱她。
I mean, listen, I have family in your area.
我的意思是，听着，我在你的地区有家人。
Remember, David is supposed to be a mafioso.
请记住，大卫应该是一名黑手党。
That's the kind of family he's talking about.
他所说的就是这样的家庭。
A minute later, he will refer to friends in the North End, historically an Italian neighborhood in Boston.
一分钟后，他会提到北端的朋友，北端历史上是波士顿的一个意大利社区。
He is opening, for Allen, a door to the underworld.
他正在为艾伦打开一扇通往黑社会的大门。
So, I don't know how to say this, but there is a cheaper way and probably a more permanent way to do it, but--
所以，我不知道该怎么说，但有一种更便宜的方法，而且可能是一种更持久的方法，但是——
A more permanent way.
更永久的方式。
In case Allen didn't understand what David was getting at--
以防艾伦不明白大卫的意思——
She's dead.
她死了。
David Yeah.
大卫 是的。
I mean, that's up to you.
我的意思是，这取决于你。
Uh, I would like to proceed.
呃，我想继续。
M.
M。
Gessen Allen would like to proceed.
格森·艾伦愿意继续。
The time that elapses between the agent saying, "that's up to you" and Allen's agreement to "proceed" with the more permanent option is a fraction of a second.
从特工说“这取决于你”到艾伦同意“继续”更永久的选择之间所花费的时间只有几分之一秒。
He doesn't take a breath.
他没有呼吸。
He doesn't pretend to consider the decision.
他并没有假装考虑过这个决定。
He doesn't double check that he understood the agent correctly.
他没有仔细检查他是否正确理解了代理。
He doesn't even ask how much money he'll save by going for the cheaper option.
他甚至没有问选择更便宜的选择可以节省多少钱。
He jumps right in with both feet.
他双脚直接跳了进去。
And then it gets worse.
然后情况变得更糟。
Allen says that he had looked into this more permanent option before, that he talked to Israelis, and Eastern Europeans, and Italians, and the lowest estimate he got was $220,000.
艾伦说，他之前曾考虑过这种更永久的选择，他与以色列人、东欧人和意大利人进行了交谈，他得到的最低估价是 22 万美元。
The prosecutor stopped the tape and repeated what Allen had said.
检察官停止了录音并重复了艾伦所说的话。
"I researched my sources.
“我研究了我的消息来源。
The lowest price was 220.
最低价是220。
And then that is run through the Israelis and Eastern Europe and Italy."
然后这会贯穿以色列、东欧和意大利。”
She asked the undercover agent what he had understood Allen to be saying.
她问卧底特工他理解艾伦在说什么。
The agent answered, "my understanding was that Mr. Gessen had already researched the option to kill his wife and had been in conversation, or had done some research with other organized crime syndicates, in this case Israelis or Eastern Europe, for the price of $220,000."
特工回答说：“我的理解是，格森先生已经研究了杀死他妻子的选择，并进行了交谈，或者与其他有组织犯罪集团（在本例中是以色列或东欧）进行了一些研究，价格为 22 万美元。”
The agent, who had worked on murder-for-hire cases before, testified in court that it was cheap.
这名特工以前曾处理过雇佣谋杀案，他在法庭上作证说，这很便宜。
He'd seen people agree to kill someone for as little as $200.
他见过有人同意为了仅仅 200 美元而杀人。
If that's what you want you have to tell me.
如果这就是你想要的，你必须告诉我。
On the tape, David assures Allen that his friends on the north end are more dependable and affordable than those other guys, the Israelis or the Eastern Europeans, and adds that they can get the job done quickly.
在录音中，大卫向艾伦保证，他在北端的朋友比其他人，以色列人或东欧人更可靠，也更便宜，并补充说他们可以很快完成工作。
Allen likes this, and he clarifies, more definite.
艾伦喜欢这个，他澄清得更明确。
Permanent.
永恒的。
M.
M。
Gessen The prosecutor asked, "when you heard Mr. Gessen say, and more definite, what was your understanding of that?" The agent answered, "more definite is permanent, dead."
格森检察官问道：“当你听到格森先生更明确地说时，你对此有何理解？”特工回答：“更确定的是永久的，死的。”
I'd seen FBI agents testify in court before.
我以前见过联邦调查局特工在法庭上作证。
Often I've been skeptical.
我常常持怀疑态度。
Their interpretations of what people say to them can be far-fetched.
他们对人们对他们所说的话的解释可能很牵强。
Their entrapment techniques are often crude and mendacious.
他们的诱捕技术往往是粗鲁和虚假的。
I've seen cases where the undercover agent talks a person into a crime they had no intention of committing.
我见过卧底特工说服一个人犯下他们无意犯罪的案例。
But this was different.
但这不一样。
I couldn't imagine any alternative interpretation of the tape I'd just heard.
我无法想象对我刚刚听到的磁带有任何其他的解释。
Allen wanted Priscilla killed, and he wanted David to know that he wanted Priscilla killed.
艾伦希望杀死普里西拉，他想让大卫知道他希望杀死普里西拉。
He said that with the bribery scheme, he was worried that Priscilla could fight her deportation in court and maybe even win.
他说，通过贿赂计划，他担心普里西拉可以在法庭上对抗她的驱逐出境，甚至可能获胜。
Murder is better than deportation that way.
这样谋杀总比驱逐出境好。
Of course, that's-- we could handle that.
当然，我们可以处理这个问题。
I just didn't know what your appetite for that was.
我只是不知道你对此有什么兴趣。
But if you feel that way we can make that happen.
但如果您有这样的感觉，我们可以实现这一目标。
It will be very clean, it'll be quick, and it will be final.
它将非常干净，很快，而且将是最终的。
But you gotta tell me if that's the route that you want to take.
但你必须告诉我这是否是你想要走的路线。
My single concern is, I need to be sure that you cannot possibly [?
我唯一关心的是，我需要确定你不可能[？
hurt ?] the kids.
伤害？]孩子们。
No. M.
编号M。
Gessen This is the only thing that gives Allen pause.
格森 这是唯一让艾伦犹豫的事情。
He doesn't want the kids to see their mother getting killed.
他不想让孩子们看到他们的母亲被杀。
No, no, no. God, please.
不，不，不。上帝，请。
Yeah, no, no. No, we're all family men.
是的，不，不。不，我们都是顾家的男人。
Like, this is strictly business.
就像，这完全是生意。
OK, because that was my one concern with that route is that I want to make sure that whoever does this, will make sure it's--
好的，因为这是我对这条路线的一个担忧，我想确保无论谁做这件事，都会确保它——
No, no, no, no, no, no. No. This would be a very clean, professional job.
不，不，不，不，不，不。不，这将是一份非常干净、专业的工作。
I think it's probably half the cost, to tell you the truth.
说实话，我认为这可能是一半的费用。
Yeah.
是的。
OK.
好的。
Allen Very happy to proceed with it.
艾伦很高兴继续进行。
OK.
好的。
M.
M。
Gessen "Very happy to proceed with it."
Gessen “很高兴继续进行。”
What a productive meeting for the undercover agent.
对于卧底特工来说，这是一次富有成效的会议。
He came for bribery and was leaving with murder for hire.
他来是为了受贿，而离开时却是为了杀人。
Now he just needed Allen to confirm that he intended to go through with it so that when Allen eventually went to trial, he couldn't say that he was misunderstood.
现在他只需要艾伦确认他打算完成这件事，这样当艾伦最终接受审判时，他就不能说自己被误解了。
And now, here we were at that trial, listening to and looking at all the times and all the ways Allen said that, yes, he really meant it.
现在，我们在审判中，聆听并观察艾伦所说的所有时间和方式，是的，他确实是这么想的。
He wanted Priscilla killed.
他想要杀掉普里西拉。
Well, you have to be sure that this is what you're-- OK, all right.
好吧，你必须确定这就是你的——好吧，好吧。
This is the first time.
这是第一次。
The agent asks Allen if he is sure.
特工询问艾伦是否确定。
And Allen says, "I'm sure." And he adds--
艾伦说：“我确定。”他补充道——
This is not like a spur of the moment or emotional reaction.
这不像是一时冲动或情绪反应。
No, no, no. This sounds like it's been well thought out.
不，不，不。这听起来像是经过深思熟虑的。
Listen yeah, I didn't want to-- I'm glad we talked about it, because that's-- honestly, that's the way I would have handled it.
听着，是的，我不想——我很高兴我们谈论了这件事，因为那是——老实说，这就是我处理这件事的方式。
But that's the-- you gotta be comfortable with it, right?
但这就是——你必须对此感到满意，对吧？
I'm comfortable.
我很舒服。
David OK, good.
大卫 好吧，很好。
All right.
好的。
Allen says that this is not an emotional decision, not spur of the moment.
艾伦表示，这不是一个情绪化的决定，也不是一时冲动。
He is comfortable with it.
他对此感到很舒服。
Sometimes they dig their own fucking grave.
有时他们他妈的给自己挖坟墓。
"Don't fuck with me." There's a bit more back and forth.
“别跟我操。”还有一些来回。
David will need pictures of Priscilla, location, everything for the people who'll do the job.
大卫需要普里西拉的照片、地点以及负责这项工作的人员的一切信息。
And then, just like that, Allen is showing David pictures of the kids.
然后，就这样，艾伦向大卫展示了孩子们的照片。
This is my son.
这是我的儿子。
David Ah, what's his name?
大卫啊，他叫什么名字？
His name is [BLEEP] And then here's my daughter.
他的名字是[BLEEP] 这是我的女儿。
Beautiful.
美丽的。
Gorgeous.
华丽的。
Allen We're just getting to know each other.
艾伦：我们才刚刚认识。
Whose dog is that?
那是谁的狗？
M.
M。
Gessen Beautiful kids, beautiful poodle, beautiful life.
格森 美丽的孩子，美丽的贵宾犬，美丽的生活。
The only problem is Priscilla.
唯一的问题是普里西拉。
Surely, after seeing these photos, David would see what a great father Allen was.
当然，看到这些照片后，大卫会发现艾伦是一位多么伟大的父亲。
Surely, he would feel even better about helping Allen get rid of the fly in the ointment.
当然，如果能帮艾伦除掉美中不足，他的心情肯定会更好。
But David has a question.
但大卫有一个问题。
What is this going to do to the kids emotionally?
这会对孩子的情感造成什么影响？
How do we protect the kids?
我们如何保护孩子？
I guess they're too young too.
我想他们也太年轻了。
They're young too.
他们也很年轻。
But how do we-- how do we protect the kids?
但是我们如何——我们如何保护孩子们？
Look, they're going to lose their mother, right?
听着，他们就要失去母亲了，对吗？
She's fucking gone.
她他妈不见了。
How do we protect the kids?
我们如何保护孩子？
As long as they're not witness to violence.
只要他们没有目睹暴力。
"As long as they're not witness to violence." That's the word he used.
“只要他们没有目睹暴力。”这是他用的词。
Violence.
暴力。
No. They're not.
不，他们不是。
They won't be.
他们不会的。
Yeah, they won't be.
是的，他们不会。
I mean, she'll be taken out without them present.
我的意思是，如果他们不在场的话，她就会被带走。
Then I guess you can explain how you explain it.
然后我想你可以解释一下你是如何解释的。
But just know that now that I'm seeing pictures of that, I just want to make sure that they're OK.
但要知道，现在我看到了这些照片，我只是想确保它们没问题。
I got a heart, too.
我也有一颗心。
Like I fucking-- don't get me wrong, I'll flip the light switch when I need to.
就像我他妈的——别误会我的意思，我会在需要的时候打开电灯开关。
But when I look at those kids like that, they're beautiful to me.
但当我这样看着那些孩子时，他们对我来说很漂亮。
I just want to make sure they're OK.
我只是想确保他们没事。
The undercover agent is methodical.
卧底特工做事有条不紊。
He keeps coming closer to saying "she will be killed." And he keeps pushing Allen to consider the hypothetical stakes.
他越来越接近说“她会被杀”。他不断敦促艾伦考虑假设的风险。
The children will lose their mother forever.
孩子们将永远失去他们的母亲。
Allen blithely keeps incriminating himself.
艾伦乐呵呵地不断地自证其罪。
As long as the kids wouldn't see the murder happen, he didn't have other concerns.
只要孩子们不会看到谋杀发生，他就没有其他顾虑。
They wrap up their meeting.
他们结束了会议。
Allen has a plane to catch.
艾伦要赶飞机。
The undercover agent has a lot to work with.
卧底特工有很多工作要做。
This is UC 4735, and today is Thursday, June 2, 2022.
我是 UC 4735，今天是 2022 年 6 月 2 日，星期四。
And this is the conclusion of a recorded conversation with Allen Gessen.
这是与艾伦·格森的录音对话的结论。
So that all sounds very damning and very conclusive.
所以这一切听起来非常可恶，而且非常具有决定性。
Yeah and then a few other people testified against Allen, including Priscilla.
是的，然后还有其他一些人出庭指控艾伦，包括普里西拉。
And then Allen took the stand, which is also very unusual for a criminal trial.
然后艾伦出庭作证，这对于刑事审判来说也是很不寻常的。
Usually people don't testify in their own defense, and he tried to convince the jury that he had only wanted Priscilla deported, and that he did not want her killed.
通常人们不会为自己辩护作证，他试图说服陪审团，他只是想让普里西拉被驱逐出境，他不想让她被杀。
And so he went through with his attorney all those exchanges on tape and on text, trying to argue that all of them were just sort of vocabulary misunderstandings.
因此，他与他的律师通过录音和文字进行了所有这些交流，试图辩称所有这些都只是某种词汇误解。
And that they were just misunderstanding each other somehow.
他们只是不知何故互相误解了。
They were just talking at cross purposes.
他们只是在谈论不同的目的。
And so how does it go over with the jury?
那么陪审团的看法如何呢？
The jury doesn't buy it.
陪审团并不买账。
The jury convicted him pretty fast of murder for hire.
陪审团很快判定他犯有雇佣谋杀罪。
And then almost a whole year later, he was finally sentenced.
差不多一年后，他终于被判刑了。
And at the sentencing hearing, his lawyer again tried to say that he was only trying to get Priscilla deported, at which point, the judge said, you know, that crime that you're describing is actually called kidnapping, and it's punishable by up to 20 years in prison.
在量刑听证会上，他的律师再次试图说他只是想让普里西拉被驱逐出境，此时法官说，你知道，你所描述的犯罪行为实际上称为绑架，最高可判处 20 年监禁。
So maybe just stop.
所以也许就停下来吧。
And then she sentenced him to the maximum, which is 10 years in prison.
然后她判处了他最高的刑期，即10年监禁。
And there's this whole other chapter to this story because once he was incarcerated, you started talking to Allen.
这个故事还有另外一章，因为一旦他被监禁，你就开始和艾伦交谈。
You finally talked to Allen, which I feel like when we started on the story, we didn't even know if that would ever happen.
你终于和艾伦谈过了，我觉得当我们开始讲这个故事时，我们甚至不知道这是否会发生。
We assumed he probably would never talk to you.
我们假设他可能永远不会和你说话。
Yeah, I can't even describe how excited I was when I got an email from him saying that he was happy to talk.
是的，当我收到他发来的电子邮件说他很乐意与您交谈时，我什至无法形容我是多么兴奋。
And it was interesting because once you started talking, I remember this so vividly, you were genuinely surprised where the conversations went and how they nudged your own ideas about Allen and who he is.
这很有趣，因为一旦你开始说话，我就记得如此生动，你真的会惊讶于谈话的进展以及他们如何推动你对艾伦和他是谁的看法。
So at first, it didn't.
所以一开始并没有。
At first, he was just trying to sell me what the jury didn't buy, which was that he was framed.
起初，他只是想向我推销陪审团不买账的东西，那就是他被陷害了。
He was only trying to get Priscilla deported.
他只是想把普里西拉驱逐出境。
But then I think we both proved to be very stubborn, and I was like, OK, well, maybe his job is to try to bullshit me, and my job is to try to cut through the bullshit.
但后来我认为我们都非常固执，我当时想，好吧，好吧，也许他的工作就是试图对我胡说八道，而我的工作就是试图消除这些废话。
And 35 hours of conversations later, I genuinely felt compassion for him.
经过 35 个小时的交谈，我真的对他产生了同情心。
And then you ran by Allen, and you add for the audience too, your own theory of the case.
然后你由艾伦竞选，你也向观众添加了你自己的案例理论。
Which is not Allen's theory, and not exactly the undercover agent David's theory either.
这不是艾伦的理论，也不完全是卧底特工大卫的理论。
And we will leave it at that.
我们就这样吧。
If people want to hear what that theory is, then they need to listen to the show.
如果人们想听听这个理论是什么，那么他们需要听这个节目。
The show again, is called The Idiot.
这部剧又叫《白痴》。
It's from Serial Productions and The New York Times.
它来自 Serial Productions 和《纽约时报》。
And you can get it wherever you get your podcasts.
无论您在哪里获取播客，都可以获取它。
Masha, thank you so much for doing this.
玛莎，非常感谢你这么做。
Thank you, Ira.
谢谢你，艾拉。
Ira Glass I'll just say, before we go, to all of you who are listening, you may remember how Serial Productions basically invented and launched the true crime podcast genre back in 2014 with its first season and the story of Adnan Syed, which was kind of a global phenomenon.
Ira Glass：在我们开始之前，我想对所有正在收听的人说，你们可能还记得 Serial Productions 是如何在 2014 年发明并推出真实犯罪播客类型的，第一季和 Adnan Syed 的故事，这是一种全球现象。
20 million people downloaded every episode.
每集都有 2000 万人下载。
This new show, The Idiot, takes Serial back to their true crime roots, but with this very personal story from M.
这部新剧《白痴》将 Serial 带回了真正的犯罪根源，但 M.
Gessen added to it, which adds so much.
格森添加了它，这增加了很多。
All the episodes are out right now.
所有剧集现已播出。
The Idiot was produced by Daniel Guillemette, with Phia Bennin and Andrey Borzenko and Lika Kremer of Libo/Libo Studios.
《白痴》由 Daniel Guillemette 与 Libo/Libo Studios 的 Phia Bennin、Andrey Borzenko 和 Lika Kremer 共同制作。
The series was edited by Julie Snyder and research and fact checked by Ben Phelan and Marisa Robertson-Textor.
该系列由 Julie Snyder 编辑，Ben Phelan 和 Marisa Robertson-Textor 进行研究和事实核查。
Scoring's by Allison Leyton-Brown, with additional music from Dan Powell and Marion Lozano.
艾莉森·莱顿·布朗 (Allison Leyton-Brown) 配乐，丹·鲍威尔 (Dan Powell) 和马里昂·洛扎诺 (Marion Lozano) 配乐。
Phoebe Wang and Catherine Anderson mixed the show.
菲比·王 (Phoebe Wang) 和凯瑟琳·安德森 (Catherine Anderson) 为演出混音。
The people who helped put together this episode of our program today include Cassie Howley, Seth Lind, Tobin Lowe, Stowe Nelson, and Alissa Shipp.
今天帮助我们制作这一集节目的人包括 Cassie Howley、Seth Lind、Tobin Lowe、Stowe Nelson 和 Alissa Shipp。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman; our senior editor, David Kestenbaum; our executive editor, Emanuele Berry.
我们的总编辑是 Sarah Abdurrahman；我们的高级编辑 David Kestenbaum；我们的执行编辑埃马努埃莱·贝里。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 850 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 850 多集档案。
Have you visited, again thisamericanlife.org?
您再次访问过 thisamericanlife.org 吗？
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He was telling me this week about this time, long ago, his dad took him to see the circus in Queens in New York.
他本周告诉我，很久以前，他爸爸带他去看纽约皇后区的马戏团。
And as they left the venue, he overheard another kid, this kid with a puff of blond hair, just amazed.
当他们离开会场时，他无意中听到另一个孩子，这个有一头金发的孩子，只是感到惊讶。
They brought some huge, huge tent.
他们带来了一些非常非常大的帐篷。
I never saw such a tent.
我从来没有见过这样的帐篷。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。