879: A Christian and a Muslim Walk Into a Bar - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #879 | January 16, 2026 879: A Christian and a Muslim Walk Into a Bar Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 879 集 | 2026 年 1 月 16 日 879：一名基督徒和一名穆斯林走进酒吧 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Sharief Homsi is a standup comic in a place that's not really known for its comedy scene-- Damascus, Syria.
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯·沙里夫·霍姆西 (Ira Glass Sharief Homsi) 是一位单口喜剧演员，故事发生在一个并不以喜剧场景闻名的地方——叙利亚大马士革。
As maybe you've heard, the place was run by a dictator for a long time, Bashar al-Assad.
也许您已经听说过，这个地方长期由独裁者巴沙尔·阿萨德统治。
And back then, there were a lot of jokes that Sharief was not able to tell on stage-- definitely nothing about Assad or Assad's family, nothing about politics at all.
当时，有很多笑话是沙里夫无法在舞台上讲的——绝对不是关于阿萨德或阿萨德家族的，也不是关于政治的。
Those kind of jokes could get you killed or disappeared into one of Assad's infamous prisons.
这类笑话可能会让你被杀或消失在阿萨德臭名昭著的监狱之一。
So during those years, Sharief kept jokes like that in a folder on his computer labeled "Lebanon." Because he pretty much only felt safe telling them when he would take trips abroad.
所以那些年里，沙里夫把这样的笑话保存在他电脑上标有“黎巴嫩”的文件夹中。因为他几乎只有告诉他们他什么时候会出国旅行才安全。
There is one joke.
有一个笑话。
Well, I love this joke.
嗯，我喜欢这个笑话。
I want to bring it back.
我想把它带回来。
But there is one joke I used to say when I go to Lebanon.
但我去黎巴嫩时曾经说过一个笑话。
Like, listen, we have a lot of problems, but you don't have a president.
就像，听着，我们有很多问题，但你没有总统。
And our problem is that we have one.
我们的问题是我们有一个。
So maybe if you take him, and you can rent him for a bit, and if you like him, you can keep him.
所以也许如果你带了他，你可以租他一段时间，如果你喜欢他，你可以保留他。
You cannot say anything like this, man.
你不能说这样的话，伙计。
That joke, if I say it over here, we will get killed.
这个笑话，如果我在这里说出来，我们就会被杀掉。
There is no joke with them.
他们没有开玩笑。
Bashar al-Assad's family ruled Syria for 53 years, the last 13 of which were a brutal civil war.
巴沙尔·阿萨德家族统治叙利亚53年，其中最后13年是残酷的内战。
Over 300,000 Syrian civilians died.
超过 30 万叙利亚平民死亡。
Then, a year ago, to everybody's surprise, a bunch of rebel groups overthrew the regime in just 12 days.
然后，一年前，令所有人惊讶的是，一群叛乱组织在短短 12 天内推翻了政权。
Assad, his wife, Asma, and their family flew to Russia.
阿萨德、他的妻子阿斯玛和家人飞往俄罗斯。
The rebels were led by an Islamist group called Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham, HTS for short.
叛乱分子由一个名为 Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham（简称 HTS）的伊斯兰组织领导。
And then the new people in power surprised everybody again by not immediately becoming another repressive regime.
然后，新掌权者没有立即成为另一个专制政权，这再次让所有人感到惊讶。
HTS leader Ahmad al-Sharaa says he's acting as interim president and has promised to hold elections in the next few years.
HTS 领导人艾哈迈德·萨拉表示，他将担任临时总统，并承诺在未来几年内举行选举。
And Syrians have been experiencing a freedom that they have not experienced before.
叙利亚人正在经历着前所未有的自由。
I had dinner a couple weeks ago with somebody who was just there, and they were talking about how kind of inspiring it is to be there right now.
几周前，我和当时在场的一个人共进晚餐，他们正在谈论现在就在那里是多么鼓舞人心。
She met lots of people who were moving back, ready and excited to rebuild their country.
她遇到了很多正在搬回来的人，他们准备好并兴奋地重建自己的国家。
But at the same time, parts of Syria are still violent.
但与此同时，叙利亚部分地区仍然充满暴力。
There was fighting this month in and around Aleppo.
本月阿勒颇及其周边地区发生了战斗。
Over 150,000 people were displaced.
超过 15 万人流离失所。
In July, Sharief had to cancel a show in a city called Suwayda because of a massacre there.
7月，由于苏韦达市发生屠杀，沙里夫不得不取消在该市的一场演出。
800 people were killed.
800人被杀。
And then in October, in the middle of this chaos and hope, Sharief and the other comedians in his comedy group-- the group is called "Styria"-- decided to go on tour.
然后在十月份，在这种混乱和希望之中，沙里夫和他的喜剧团体（该团体被称为“施泰尔马克”）中的其他喜剧演员决定继续巡演。
They planned 16 cities in 21 days all over Syria-- in conservative regions, in liberal areas like Damascus, areas under Kurdish control, in areas that were once under ISIS control.
他们计划在 21 天内在叙利亚各地修建 16 个城市——在保守地区、在大马士革等自由地区、在库尔德人控制下的地区、在曾经受 ISIS 控制的地区。
And they really weren't sure how this was going to go.
他们真的不确定事情会如何发展。
Nobody had ever done this.
从来没有人这样做过。
And-- this is the tricky part-- under the dictator, it was clear what they could not say on stage.
而且——这是棘手的部分——在独裁者统治下，很明显他们不能在舞台上说些什么。
But now, there seemed to be no rulebook at all.
但现在，似乎根本没有规则可循。
If anything, the new government was saying, go ahead, you can make jokes about us.
如果有的话，新政府说，继续吧，你可以拿我们开玩笑。
We're different from the old regime.
我们与旧政权不同。
But the comedians didn't know if they could trust that.
但喜剧演员们不知道他们是否可以相信这一点。
And then beyond that, there are lots of just very conservative, very religious people around Syria.
除此之外，叙利亚周围还有很多非常保守、非常虔诚的人。
Some of them are figures of authority in towns and provinces.
他们中的一些人是城镇和省份的权威人物。
The comedians wondered how they would react to things that they heard on stage.
喜剧演员们想知道他们对在舞台上听到的事情会有什么反应。
They worried about random hotheads hearing about them and things they said, deciding to show up with a gun.
他们担心鲁莽的人会听到他们和他们所说的话，因此决定带着枪出现。
Even before they left, they got death threats in their DMs, stuff like--
甚至在他们离开之前，他们的私信中就收到了死亡威胁，比如——
If you ever talk about the revolution, we're going to come kill you one by one, and we'll-- blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
如果你谈论革命，我们就会把你一一杀掉，我们会——等等，等等，等等。
These messages freaked Sharief out, but he got where they were coming from.
这些信息吓坏了沙里夫，但他明白了这些信息的来源。
The country's been through 13 years of war.
这个国家已经经历了13年的战争。
He and most of the other comedians are from Damascus, a city that saw the least of the fighting because it was controlled by the regime.
他和大多数其他喜剧演员都来自大马士革，这座城市因受政权控制而发生的战斗最少。
By Syrian standards, they're the soft liberals.
按照叙利亚的标准，他们是软自由主义者。
I understand because some people, man, they see what we do as a luxury.
我理解，因为有些人，他们认为我们所做的事情是一种奢侈。
My house was destroyed.
我的房子被毁了。
And my brother was dead.
我的兄弟死了。
My mother was dead.
我母亲死了。
And you hear in Damascus were having fun.
你听说大马士革玩得很开心。
You didn't have anything wrong.
你并没有什么错。
And you are going to make people laugh.
你会让人们发笑。
This is like luxury, you know?
这就像奢侈，你知道吗？
So they cannot take the joke.
所以他们不能接受这个笑话。
And I understand.
我明白了。
They have the right to be sad.
他们有权利悲伤。
Any comedy show in Syria right now for everybody-- comedians, the audience-- they're all figuring out what's OK to say out loud.
现在叙利亚的任何喜剧节目对每个人来说——喜剧演员、观众——他们都在想什么可以大声说出来。
Ayman Oghanna, a reporter based in Damascus, heard about all this, and he also was very curious to see what the comedians could get away with, and whether they would even get all the way through the tour.
驻大马士革的记者艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 听说了这一切，他也很好奇这些喜剧演员能逃脱什么惩罚，以及他们能否顺利完成巡演。
He hung out with them on tour for two weeks on long van rides across Syria, backstage at their shows.
他和他们一起巡演了两周，乘坐长途货车穿越叙利亚，在他们演出的后台。
Lots of stuff ended up happening, stuff, I think it's safe to say, they did not see coming.
很多事情最终发生了，我认为可以肯定地说，他们没有预料到会发生。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
We hit the road with these comedians today.
今天我们和这些喜剧演员一起上路了。
And with that introduction, here's Ayman with Act One, an act we're calling "Too Soon?"
有了这个介绍，这是艾曼的第一幕，我们称之为“太快了？”
I meet up with the comedians in Safita, a city about three hours drive north of Damascus.
我在萨菲塔会见了喜剧演员，这座城市距离大马士革以北约三小时车程。
They're in a shared apartment that doubles as a green room.
他们住在一间兼作演员休息室的共用公寓里。
The venue owner let them all crash for free.
场馆老板免费让他们全部摔倒。
There are several mattresses to a room, suitcases under the beds, and the comics are walking in and out of rooms, getting ready and telling jokes to warm up.
一个房间里有几个床垫，床下有行李箱，漫画家们在房间里进进出出，做好准备，讲笑话来热身。
I need to get naked.
我需要裸体。
Ayman Oghanna No worries.
艾曼·奥加纳 不用担心。
No, no, no!
不，不，不！
Ayman Oghanna Malke Is Malke Mardinali, one of the founders of the group, along with Sharief.
艾曼·奥加纳·马尔克（Ayman Oghanna Malke）是该组织的创始人之一马尔克·马尔迪纳利（Malke Mardinali），与沙里夫一起。
You can ask him anything while he's dressing.
当他穿衣服的时候你可以问他任何事情。
OK, Malke, while you're dressing, I'm going to ask you the same question I just asked Sharief.
好吧，马尔克，当你穿衣服的时候，我会问你我刚才问沙里夫的同样的问题。
Ask.
问。
Ayman Oghanna Is there a joke you're thinking of saying tonight that you're not sure if you want to say it, that might be a bit dangerous?
艾曼·奥加纳（Ayman Oghanna）：今晚您是否想讲一个笑话，但不确定是否要讲，这可能有点危险？
Actually, there was a few, but a few minutes ago, we were speaking about it.
事实上，有一些，但几分钟前，我们正在谈论它。
Here, the audience is new to this kind of art, you know?
在这里，观众对这种艺术是陌生的，你知道吗？
So I don't want any joke to be uncomfortable for them, you know?
所以我不想让任何笑话让他们感到不舒服，你知道吗？
So I'm going safe side this time.
所以这次我会谨慎行事。
I feel if I say something on the government, it would be a little bit dangerous.
我觉得如果我说政府的话，会有点危险。
They will not feel comfortable.
他们会感觉不舒服。
Something like this.
像这样的东西。
For the sensitivity of this place, not because we can't say it, you know?
对于这个地方的敏感性，不是因为我们不能说，你知道吗？
But here, I don't know how they will react to it.
但在这里，我不知道他们会如何反应。
And what is the joke you're not sure about telling?
你不确定要讲的笑话是什么？
[SIGHS] Maybe something about how the Ministry of Defense dress.
[叹气]也许是关于国防部的着装。
They don't wear shoes.
他们不穿鞋。
They only wear the flip-flops, you know?
他们只穿人字拖，你知道吗？
Fuh fuh fuh!
呸呸呸！
That's how they fight.
他们就是这样战斗的。
[LAUGHS] I feel something like this.
[笑]我有这样的感觉。
It's a lot dangerous to see someone's feets in a war, you know?
在战争中看到某人的脚是非常危险的，你知道吗？
This is actually a joke about the current government, that they were such a ragtag army that they came to power in flip-flops.
这实际上是对现任政府的一个玩笑，他们是一支乌合之众，穿着人字拖上台。
Comedy and poetry are probably the hardest things to translate from any language.
喜剧和诗歌可能是任何语言中最难翻译的东西。
I swear to God in Arabic it's very funny.
我用阿拉伯语向上帝发誓，这非常有趣。
Just anyone is hearing us right now, it is funny in Arabic.
现在每个人都在听我们说话，阿拉伯语很有趣。
You should learn Arabic, and come and watch the show.
你应该学阿拉伯语，然后来看演出。
Malke plays it safe that night in Safita.
那天晚上，马尔克在萨菲塔保持着安全。
He skips the flip-flop joke.
他跳过了这个反复无常的笑话。
Styria is a small crew, around 20 comics.
Styria 是一个小团队，大约有 20 名漫画家。
Two of them are women.
其中两人是女性。
Some still keep their day jobs.
有些人仍然保留他们的日常工作。
There's a dentist, a university lecturer, an engineer, students.
有一名牙医、一名大学讲师、一名工程师和学生。
They are mostly in their 20s and 30s.
他们大多是20多岁和30多岁。
The group's name, Styria, is a combination of "Syria" plus "hysteria," because that's what it felt like to laugh in Syria when the group got together three years ago-- a manic release.
该乐队的名字“Styria”是“叙利亚”和“歇斯底里”的组合，因为这就是三年前该乐队聚在一起时在叙利亚大笑的感觉——一种疯狂的释放。
Sharief and Malke do this full-time.
沙里夫和马尔克全职从事这项工作。
Sharief is the group's spiritual leader, the one who used to have a folder labeled "Lebanon." He's got a laid-back stoner vibe, covered in tattoos, light beard, 33 years old.
沙里夫是该组织的精神领袖，他曾经拥有一个标有“黎巴嫩”字样的文件夹。他有一种悠闲的瘾君子气质，满身纹身，浅色胡须，33 岁。
Malke is the one running the tour.
马尔克是这次巡演的负责人。
He's 29 years old, with dark hair and a cheeky grin.
他今年 29 岁，有一头黑发，脸上挂着厚脸皮的笑容。
He's the Paul McCartney to Sharief's John Lennon, more tightly wound.
他就像保罗·麦卡特尼 (Paul McCartney) 和沙里夫 (Sharief) 的约翰·列侬 (John Lennon) 一样，但伤得更紧。
He's the fixer, lining up venues, negotiating with government officials, driving the van, keeping track of permits, schedules, and constantly updating the list of things that could go wrong.
他是修复者，负责安排场地、与政府官员谈判、驾驶货车、跟踪许可证、时间表，并不断更新可能出错的事情清单。
He worries out loud, cracks jokes as he does it, a kind of nervous humor that makes it clear he's holding the whole operation together.
他大声地担心，边做边开玩笑，一种紧张的幽默清楚地表明他正在掌控整个行动。
He actually thinks they're going to be fine on this tour.
他实际上认为他们这次巡演会一切顺利。
I don't think something bad will happen to us.
我不认为我们会发生什么不好的事情。
Because nobody cares about us, yanni.
因为没人关心我们，雅尼。
Let's state the obvious.
让我们陈述显而易见的事情。
Nobody cares about who the fuck we are.
没有人关心我们他妈的是谁。
I'm not like a superstar.
我不像一个超级明星。
I'm not George Clooney on the tour.
我不是巡演中的乔治·克鲁尼。
I'm Malke.
我是马尔克。
He's Sharief.
他是沙里夫。
That's Khalid.
那是哈立德。
That's Azez.
那是阿泽。
Nobody cares about us.
没有人关心我们。
Nothing bad will happen to us.
我们不会有什么不好的事情发生。
A few people telling some jokes-- [CLICKS TONGUE] let them.
几个人讲一些笑话——[点击舌头]让他们讲。
But there are two stops on the tour he's worried about.
但他担心巡演中的两站。
I'm most scared of Aleppo and Hama.
我最害怕阿勒颇和哈马。
Aleppo and Hama, those two cities are very dangerous-- very dangerous.
阿勒颇和哈马，这两个城市非常危险——非常危险。
Oof, man.
噢，伙计。
Oof.
钱币。
So we have to be careful dealing with-- I don't know with them-- the mind.
所以我们必须小心对待——我不知道他们——头脑。
I don't know what-- it's the term.
我不知道什么——就是这个词。
Al-Ghaam.
艾尔·加姆。
Al-Ghaam.
艾尔·加姆。
Minefield.
雷区。
Malke Mardinali Minefield, yes, yes.
马尔克·马尔迪纳利雷区，是的，是的。
So it's a minefield in Hama.
所以这是哈马的一个雷区。
Hama is a conservative city, stop 7 on the tour.
哈马是一个保守的城市，是旅游的第七站。
Aleppo is stop 9, a city divided by different factions.
阿勒颇是第 9 站，一座被不同派系划分的城市。
Before they could go on the tour, Malke had to sign what he translates as an obligation with the Ministry of Tourism, a pledge to avoid certain jokes.
在他们开始旅行之前，马尔克必须与旅游部签署他所说的义务，承诺避免某些笑话。
Unlike during the old Assad regime, they're allowed to make fun of the current leaders.
与阿萨德旧政权不同，他们可以取笑现任领导人。
The pledge is a promise not to use hate speech and to avoid jokes that could rile people up and cause civil unrest, like jokes about religion.
该承诺承诺不使用仇恨言论，并避免讲可能激怒人们并引起内乱的笑话，例如有关宗教的笑话。
It's a written commitment tied to the permit.
这是与许可证相关的书面承诺。
If they breach it, the Ministry of Tourism can cancel the show or penalize the group.
如果违反，旅游部可以取消演出或对团体进行处罚。
The first four shows go pretty smoothly, playing in mostly liberal towns where they didn't expect problems.
前四场演出进行得很顺利，在大多数自由派城镇演出，他们没有预料到会出现问题。
One gets oversold because the app they use to sell tickets malfunctions, which is a huge pain in the ass.
一个人被超售是因为他们用来售票的应用程序出现故障，这是一个巨大的痛苦。
But mostly, it's sold-out rooms.
但大多数情况下，房间都卖完了。
So far, so good.
到目前为止，一切都很好。
Stop 5 on the tour, Latakia, a sunny port city with a beachfront and blue Mediterranean waters.
旅程的第五站是拉塔基亚，这是一座阳光明媚的港口城市，拥有海滨和蓝色的地中海海水。
Fish restaurants and clubs line the shore.
海岸边遍布鱼餐厅和俱乐部。
It's been called the Miami of Syria.
它被称为叙利亚的迈阿密。
And it would be, except for what happened here last March, when sectarian violence killed around 1,500 people.
除了去年 3 月这里发生的宗派暴力导致约 1,500 人死亡之外，情况确实如此。
That's the stage the comedians are walking into tonight-- fun, but tense.
这就是喜剧演员们今晚要进入的舞台——有趣，但紧张。
OK, it's Wednesday, the 15th of October.
好的，今天是 10 月 15 日星期三。
We're in Latakia.
我们在拉塔基亚。
We're just arriving at the venue to see Sharief, Malke, and the guys as they set up.
我们刚刚到达会场，想看看沙里夫、马尔克和其他人正在布置。
It's a beautiful venue overlooking the sea.
这是一个俯瞰大海的美丽场所。
[CLAPS] My friend!
[鼓掌]我的朋友！
Hello, welcome, welcome.
您好，欢迎光临，欢迎光临。
Hi, Ayman.
嗨，艾曼。
Hi, how are you?
你好你好吗？
How are you?
你好吗？
Good.
好的。
What's happening?
发生什么事了？
Sharief Homsi We're preparing for the show.
Sharief Homsi 我们正在为演出做准备。
Sharief is unloading equipment and making sure everything is in place, working.
谢里夫正在卸载设备并确保一切就位并正常工作。
Malke's putting up posters and banners at the entrance.
马尔克在入口处张贴海报和横幅。
I told you, we're the logistic.
我告诉过你了，我们是后勤部门。
We're the reservation.
我们是预约的。
We are the comedian.
我们是喜剧演员。
We are the management.
我们是管理层。
We are the president of Syria.
我们是叙利亚总统。
We are Styria.
我们是施蒂利亚州。
Sharief Homsi The same-- we are Styria.
沙里夫·霍姆西（Sharief Homsi） 同样——我们是施泰尔马克州。
So we're preparing the show, and we just learned we might have-- we cannot do our show in Hama.
所以我们正在准备演出，我们刚刚得知我们可能无法在哈马举办演出。
Hama, one of the cities Malke was worried about.
哈马，马尔克担心的城市之一。
Man, this is insane.
伙计，这太疯狂了。
This is insane.
这太疯狂了。
This is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
Oh!
哦！
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
You're pissed off.
你很生气。
Malke Mardinali Yeah, yeah, very, very man.
Malke Mardinali 是的，是的，非常非常的男人。
Very angry about it.
对此非常生气。
They had gotten a call from their fixer in Hama, the guy setting up their show there.
他们接到了哈马经纪人的电话，他就是在那里安排他们的演出的。
He said he had gone to pay the fees for the show, but was told the local government in Hama wasn't going to allow it.
他说他已经去支付演出费用，但被告知哈马当地政府不允许。
Because we got a report that we are-- this is a new one.
因为我们收到一份报告——这是一份新报告。
Prepare.
准备。
It's fresh.
很新鲜。
Sharief Homsi It's a fresh-- we are supporting the gay rights in Syria or in Hama.
沙里夫·霍姆西（Sharief Homsi）这是一个新鲜事——我们支持叙利亚或哈马的同性恋权利。
Why?
为什么？
Sharief Homsi We don't know.
沙里夫·霍姆西：我们不知道。
Like, the one who is preparing the venue in Hama, they sent him to the--
就像在哈马准备场地的那个人，他们派他去——
They are assuming.
他们正在假设。
We didn't say anything about this kind of topic, ever!
我们从来没有谈论过此类话题！
Malke talked to the guy in the government.
马尔克和政府里的那个人谈过。
Tell him, bro, this is really offensive.
告诉他，兄弟，这真的很冒犯。
If you tell me I'm threatening the people, the religion, anything, I'm talking against politics, I understand.
如果你告诉我我在威胁人民、宗教或任何东西，我是在反对政治，我理解。
But gay rights-- why?
但同性恋权利——为什么呢？
Like, when?
比如，什么时候？
[INAUDIBLE] So we don't know--
[听不清] 所以我们不知道——
How?
怎么办？
Who?
WHO？
Too much W's.
W太多了。
Ayman Oghanna The Styria comedians can talk about whatever they want in their sets.
艾曼·奥格纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 施泰尔马克州的喜剧演员可以在节目中畅所欲言。
Their only rule is no hate speech.
他们唯一的规则就是不得发表仇恨言论。
But still, nobody campaigns for any rights of any kind in their shows.
但仍然没有人在他们的节目中争取任何形式的权利。
Just imagine like you cannot think about supporting any rights, like, you see, gay rights, vegetarian rights, any rights.
想象一下，你不能考虑支持任何权利，比如，你看，同性恋权利、素食权利，任何权利。
So the idea, we don't know, man.
所以这个想法，我们不知道，伙计。
They care about Hama because it's symbolic.
他们关心哈马，因为它具有象征意义。
A full house in a town with a conservative reputation-- a real test of what they can or can't say in the new Syria.
在一个享有保守声誉的小镇里，座无虚席——这是对他们在新叙利亚能说什么或不能说什么的真正考验。
They weren't even going to play Hama when they planned the tour.
当他们计划这次巡演时，他们甚至不打算参加哈马比赛。
Too conservative, too many ways it could go wrong.
太保守了，有太多可能出错的地方。
This is the place where, in 1982, Hafez al-Assad, Bashar's father, crushed the Muslim Brotherhood uprising.
1982年，巴沙尔的父亲哈菲兹·阿萨德就是在这里镇压了穆斯林兄弟会的起义。
Thousands were killed.
数千人被杀。
Many disappeared.
许多人消失了。
People there still carry that history.
那里的人们仍然保留着这段历史。
It shapes what you can say in a room.
它决定了你在房间里可以说的话。
But then a fan of the group DMed Sharief, begging him to come.
但随后该乐队的一名粉丝私信沙里夫，恳求他来。
We like you here.
我们喜欢你在这里。
We want you here.
我们希望你在这里。
We want to change the conservative stereotype of our city.
我们希望改变我们城市保守的刻板印象。
So Sharief said, OK, fuck it, let's do Hama.
所以谢里夫说，好吧，去他妈的，让我们做哈马吧。
They figured if they could play Hama, it could open the doors to other conservative cities, too.
他们认为，如果能够与哈马比赛，也可以打开通往其他保守城市的大门。
And they sold out the Hama show, 230 tickets.
Hama 演出的 230 张门票也被抢购一空。
It's Wednesday.
今天是星期三。
The Hama show is supposed to happen Monday.
哈马表演预计将于周一举行。
So Malke calls the guy in charge of culture in Hama, a local bureaucrat he calls the sheikh, to convince the sheikh to not cancel the show.
因此，马尔克打电话给哈马文化负责人（他称之为酋长）的当地官僚，说服酋长不要取消演出。
I am beyond worried right now.
我现在非常担心。
My mind in Hama.
我的心在哈马。
That night, they still have a show to do.
那天晚上，他们还有节目要做。
[APPLAUSE] Sharief Homsi [SPEAKING ARABIC]
[鼓掌]Sharief Homsi [阿拉伯语]
It's a simple format-- six comedians, seven minutes each.
格式很简单——六位喜剧演员，每人七分钟。
The room is full, maybe 200, 300 people.
房间里已经满了，大概有200、300人。
Malke opens the show.
马尔克开场。
He asks the audience not to take videos or photos or post on social media because they just got in trouble with the government for promoting homosexuality.
他要求观众不要拍摄视频、照片或在社交媒体上发帖，因为他们刚刚因为宣扬同性恋而与政府发生了麻烦。
[LAUGHTER] Ayman Oghanna Malke tells a version of the flip-flop joke, how security forces have been fighting for 14 years, but keep their toes out.
[笑声]Ayman Oghanna Malke 讲述了一个反复无常的笑话，安全部队已经战斗了 14 年，但却保持警惕。
It gets a big laugh.
它得到了大笑。
Then he hands the mic over to Sharief.
然后他将麦克风交给沙里夫。
Sharief tells a joke that definitely would have gotten him into trouble under the Assad regime.
沙里夫讲了一个笑话，如果在阿萨德政权下他肯定会陷入麻烦。
It shows you how much things have changed in Syria this last year.
它向您展示了去年叙利亚发生了多大的变化。
It's about Asma al-Assad, the dictator's wife, who had breast cancer.
这是关于独裁者的妻子阿斯玛·阿萨德（Asma al-Assad）的故事，她患有乳腺癌。
Technically, it's about her bra.
从技术上讲，这是关于她的胸罩。
Here's the setup.
这是设置。
December 8, 2024, the Assads flee for Russia.
2024 年 12 月 8 日，阿萨德家族逃往俄罗斯。
Syrians go to the abandoned presidential palace to loot it, taking little trophies, souvenirs.
叙利亚人前往废弃的总统府进行抢劫，带走了一些战利品和纪念品。
So in that joke, I say people went to Bashar al-Assad to steal some watches, some expensive painting.
所以在那个笑话中，我说人们去巴沙尔·阿萨德那里偷了一些手表，一些昂贵的画作。
Me, I go, what I get?
我，我去，我得到什么？
Asma al-Assad's bra.
阿斯玛·阿萨德的胸罩。
[LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE] And I have it one piece.
[笑声，掌声]我有一件。
He holds up half of a bra.
他举起半个胸罩。
The other half is missing.
另一半不见了。
Because she got one breast taken because she had cancer.
因为她因患有癌症而切除了一侧乳房。
And people start to laugh and feel shy.
人们开始大笑并感到害羞。
And I say, hey, hey, don't feel sorry about her.
我说，嘿，嘿，别为她感到难过。
She have cancer.
她患有癌症。
Feel sorry for the cancer.
为癌症感到难过。
He have Asma al-Assad.
他有阿斯玛·阿萨德。
And people are just like, ah!
人们就像，啊！
I love this joke.
我喜欢这个笑话。
Biggest laugh of the night.
当晚最大的笑声。
Afterwards, I talked to a few members of the audience.
随后，我与几位观众进行了交谈。
How was the show tonight?
今晚的演出怎么样？
Fadi Tremendous, extraordinary.
法迪 伟大、非凡。
I haven't witnessed anything the same in my life.
我一生中还没有目睹过同样的事情。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
It was unbelievable.
这太令人难以置信了。
It's-- no one expected this.
这是——没有人预料到的。
They say things that you cannot say, especially in Latakia.
他们会说一些你不能说的话，尤其是在拉塔基亚。
They're amazing.
他们太棒了。
One guy said he was depressed before the show.
一名男子表示，演出前他很沮丧。
But after five minutes in the show, I felt myself like flying in the night sky.
但看了五分钟后，我感觉自己就像在夜空中飞翔一样。
The only criticism I heard was that they were not political enough.
我听到的唯一批评是它们不够政治化。
I would like to hear more about politics.
我想听更多关于政治的事情。
Because the more you talk about politics, the more you are free.
因为你谈论政治越多，你就越自由。
I don't think that in the coming years, they will be able to mention the same jokes.
我认为在未来的几年里，他们将无法提及同样的笑话。
I don't believe that they are going to be free like this.
我不相信他们会像这样获得自由。
I feel that Syria now is going to be like the Assad period.
我觉得现在的叙利亚将会像阿萨德时期一样。
Some Syrians have told me that they feel as though they're speaking on borrowed time.
一些叙利亚人告诉我，他们感觉自己的讲话仿佛是借来的。
They're happy the old regime is gone, but are unsure about the future.
他们很高兴旧政权已经消失，但对未来并不确定。
Syrians are setting precedents for what can be said, post by post, room by room.
叙利亚人正在为可以说的话树立先例，一个帖子一个帖子，一个房间一个房间。
But maybe it's a bubble.
但也许这只是一个泡沫。
They can joke for now, but there's real trepidation about what comes next.
他们现在可以开玩笑，但接下来会发生什么，他们真的很担心。
By the end of the night, the comedians haven't heard back from the sheikh.
到了晚上，喜剧演员们还没有收到酋长的回复。
The fate of the Hama show is still on the line.
哈马秀的命运仍然悬而未决。
Ayman Oghanna.
艾曼·奥加纳。
Coming up, the comedians head into Hama province, the sheikh's province.
接下来，喜剧演员们将前往酋长的省份哈马省。
And the sheikh brings all the boys to the yard-- figuratively, I mean.
酋长把所有的男孩都带到了院子里——我的意思是象征性的。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
If you've just tuned in, reporter Ayman Oghanna hit the road with a group of Syrian comedians on their first nationwide tour since the Assad regime fell a year ago.
如果您刚刚收看，记者艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 将与一群叙利亚喜剧演员一起上路，开始他们自一年前阿萨德政权倒台以来的首次全国巡演。
We have arrived at "Act Two, The Drama in Hama." Here's Ayman.
我们已经到了“第二幕，哈马戏剧”。这是艾曼。
The comedians have a two-day break after Latakia, so they go back to Damascus to recuperate.
拉塔基亚之后，喜剧演员们休息了两天，所以他们回到大马士革休养。
They still don't know what's going to happen with their show in Hama.
他们仍然不知道哈马的演出会发生什么。
I meet up with them at Sharief's place in Damascus, his family's house.
我在沙里夫位于大马士革的家中与他们会面，那是他的家。
It's big, in a nice leafy neighborhood.
它很大，位于一个绿树成荫的漂亮社区。
How are you feeling?
你感觉怎么样？
Sharief Homsi Oof, tired.
沙里夫·霍姆西·乌夫，累了。
I need a massage, Ayman.
我需要按摩，艾曼。
Sharief's parents are drinking tea in the living room with his aunt and uncle.
沙里夫的父母正在客厅里与他的姑妈和叔叔一起喝茶。
[INAUDIBLE] This is my place.
[听不清] 这是我的地方。
This is my room.
这是我的房间。
This is my family, my uncle.
这是我的家人，我的叔叔。
This is his wife.
这是他的妻子。
[ARABIC] Hi.
[阿拉伯语] 你好。
We step into Sharief's bedroom, the operating base for Styria.
我们走进沙里夫的卧室，这里是施泰尔马克州的行动基地。
Malke, Sharief, and Omar, another founding comedian, have all kicked off their shoes and are drinking coffee and discussing what's to come.
马尔克、沙里夫和另一位喜剧演员奥马尔都脱掉了鞋子，喝着咖啡，讨论着接下来会发生什么。
They are waiting for the sheikh to call with an update on Hama.
他们正在等待酋长打电话通报哈马的最新情况。
Malke's phone stays face up on the table.
马尔克的手机正面朝上放在桌子上。
Psychedelic stoner posters are taped to the wall.
墙上贴着迷幻的吸毒者海报。
A desktop computer obscures the window.
一台台式电脑遮住了窗户。
A few childish pictures sit on the mantle.
地幔上有几张幼稚的照片。
Malke points to them-- a Harry Potter poster and a painting made by a small child.
马尔克指着它们——一张《哈利·波特》海报和一幅小孩画的画。
That's from Karim al-Assad room, the sons of Bashar.
这是来自巴沙尔的儿子卡里姆·阿萨德的房间。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
So this is taken from the palace?
所以这是从皇宫里拿来的？
Yes.
是的。
Sharief Homsi Yeah.
沙里夫·霍姆西 是的。
And I have a few stuff also from his house.
我也有一些来自他家的东西。
What we get also, Malke?
我们还得到了什么，马尔克？
I get from his house, I took shitty stuff, not something with the-- it value to me more than at value in the real world, you know?
我从他家里拿了一些垃圾东西，而不是那些对我来说比现实世界更有价值的东西，你知道吗？
Because that day was magnificent, man.
因为那天真是太棒了，伙计。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
I say this in my standup.
我在站立演讲中这么说。
I said, I really hope we don't have to feel this feeling again, of us getting liberated.
我说，我真希望我们不要再有这种解放的感觉了。
Because in order to feel it again, another dictator would have to come.
因为为了再次感受到这种感觉，就必须有另一个独裁者出现。
So in that day, I felt totally free.
所以在那一天，我感到完全自由。
It was total chaos, man.
这完全是一片混乱，伙计。
Like, I spent from 6 o'clock until 6:00 at the evening, I was outside in the road with my friend celebrating.
比如，我从晚上 6 点到 6:00 一直在外面的路上和朋友一起庆祝。
We went to al-Assad home.
我们去了阿萨德的家。
You see, I have his bra, his painting, and stuff.
你看，我有他的胸罩，他的画，还有其他东西。
We went to the parliament, to the Ministry of Defense.
我们去了议会、国防部。
Yeah, I'm not kidding.
是的，我不是在开玩笑。
I brought shitty stuff for me.
我给我带来了一些破烂的东西。
I have-- and the half of the bra.
我有——还有半个胸罩。
I give it to my girlfriend, my ex-girlfriend.
我把它送给我的女朋友，我的前女友。
Because--
因为——
No, no, man.
不，不，伙计。
It's a real shit.
这真是一坨狗屎。
I turned it into a joke.
我把它变成了一个笑话。
Let me show you.
让我告诉你。
[INAUDIBLE] Let me show you the book of my standup comedy when I was inside.
[听不清] 让我给你看我在里面时写的单口喜剧书。
When Sharief says he was inside, he means prison.
当沙里夫说他在里面时，他指的是监狱。
Sharief was jailed in Dubai for a little more than three years, from 2018 to 2021.
2018 年至 2021 年，沙里夫在迪拜被判入狱三年多一点。
He hands me a paperback book with a worn cover.
他递给我一本封面破旧的平装书。
So this was with me in the inside.
所以这是我在里面。
See what I write.
看看我写的。
Be a Great Standup is the name of the book.
成为一个伟大的站立者是这本书的名字。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
It's covered in handwritten notes.
它被手写笔记覆盖。
This is my notes.
这是我的笔记。
This is me writing standup in the inside.
这是我在里面写的脱口秀。
So you're inside your cell, just reading about comedy and writing in this book?
那么你在牢房里，只是在阅读这本书中有关喜剧和写作的内容？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I can show you.
是的，我可以告诉你。
I can show you a book where I writed what I want to do when I'm going to go out.
我可以给你看一本书，上面写了我要出去时想做的事情。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, and you can see in English, I say a new laptop, writing, and standup comedy.
是的，你可以用英语看到，我说一台新笔记本电脑、写作和单口喜剧。
And I write here some gem-- "never, never speak the plan."
我在这里写下一些要点——“永远、永远不要说出计划。”
I used to talk a lot, man.
我曾经说过很多话，伙计。
This is what got me into shit.
这就是让我陷入困境的原因。
This shit is a narcotics charge.
这他妈是贩毒罪。
Sharief was dealing drugs in Dubai and got caught by the authorities.
谢里夫在迪拜从事毒品交易，被当局抓获。
I got greedy, and I got caught by a kameen, by an ambush.
我贪心了，结果被卡米恩伏击了。
And they gave me marked money, and it was all a play and all a game.
他们给了我标记的钱，这完全是一场游戏。
I was the one who burned.
我就是那个被烧死的人。
According to court documents, Sharief sold drugs to an undercover cop.
根据法庭文件，沙里夫向一名卧底警察出售毒品。
A snitch had tipped off the police.
一名告密者向警方通风报信。
He was arrested and given a life sentence, which, in the UAE, is a common penalty for drug offenses, no matter how small.
他被捕并被判处无期徒刑，这在阿联酋是对毒品犯罪的常见处罚，无论数额多么小。
He says he got out because his father wrote a mercy petition, a letter to the prosecutor begging to let him go.
他说他之所以能出狱，是因为他的父亲写了一份宽恕请愿书，一封写给检察官的信，请求放他走。
My name was 71.
我的名字是71。
It was 70 people who meant to go out, and they added my name after three years and three months.
本来想出去的有70个人，三年零三个月后他们加上了我的名字。
And--
还有——
Thank God.
感谢上帝。
And then you came out, and you were like, I know what I want to do.
然后你出来了，你说，我知道我想做什么。
I'm going to be a comedian.
我要成为一名喜剧演员。
Actually, the first year, I was an animal.
事实上，第一年，我是一只动物。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
Sharief Homsi You know, your basic-- I want to eat, I want to have sex, I want to hear some music.
沙里夫·霍姆西（Sharief Homsi）你知道，你的基本原则是——我想吃东西，我想做爱，我想听一些音乐。
It was taken from me.
它是从我身边夺走的。
And after nine months, I was going into then the same cycle that got me into jail.
九个月后，我又进入了让我入狱的同一个循环。
A friend called him out for how he was acting.
一位朋友批评他的行为。
Sharief said enough and broke the cycle by focusing on saving money for his comedy dream, taking any job he could.
沙里夫说得够多了，他打破了这个循环，专注于为他的喜剧梦想攒钱，接受任何他能做的工作。
And when that happened, everything started to happen.
当那件事发生时，一切都开始发生。
Like, someone asked me to do standup comedy between parties and stuff, and I was like, I want to do this.
就像，有人让我在聚会之间做单口喜剧，我当时想，我想这样做。
And I thought, is it possible in all Syria, in all the dark humor and shit we have, I am the only one in Syria or Damascus that want to do standup comedy?
我想，在整个叙利亚，在我们拥有的所有黑色幽默和狗屎中，我有可能是叙利亚或大马士革唯一一个想做单口喜剧的人吗？
Just let me put the news out and see who are interested.
让我把这个消息发布出去，看看谁有兴趣。
I needed a team so I can start.
我需要一个团队，这样我才能开始。
So we can do something.
所以我们可以做点什么。
That's how he met Malke.
就这样他认识了马尔克。
They both grew up in Damascus.
他们都在大马士革长大。
Sharief is Muslim.
谢里夫是穆斯林。
Malke is Christian.
马尔克是基督徒。
They had mutual friends, but didn't know each other.
他们有共同的朋友，但互不相识。
Malke was working in a bank at the time.
马尔克当时在一家银行工作。
But they both dreamt of being standup comedians.
但他们都梦想成为单口喜剧演员。
Here's Sharief.
这是谢里夫。
Someone sent me his Facebook, and I went to research his Facebook.
有人给我发了他的 Facebook，我就去研究他的 Facebook。
He had some bad content on Qmedia.
他在 Qmedia 上发布了一些不良内容。
Then I find him start to do standup comedy.
然后我发现他开始表演单口喜剧。
He tried in 2020, alone.
2020 年，他独自尝试过。
How do you start to do standup comedy on your own?
你是如何开始自己制作单口喜剧的？
Actually, actually, this is a very good one.
事实上，事实上，这是一件非常好的事情。
I don't know if I told the guys of it.
我不知道我是否告诉过那些人。
Kamal, my friend, we were having a drink in Mad Monkey Pub.
卡迈勒，我的朋友，我们正在疯狂猴子酒吧喝一杯。
So we were talking, and I don't know.
所以我们正在谈论，但我不知道。
I'm just saying stories and something like this.
我只是说故事之类的。
He started to laugh very hard.
他开始笑得很厉害。
So he called Bisan, the owner of that place, and told her that I should start doing standup comedy at her venue.
于是他打电话给那个地方的老板 Bisan，告诉她我应该开始在她的场地做单口喜剧。
She refused, of course.
她当然拒绝了。
And--
还有——
But then, a week or so later, the owner of the bar changed her mind.
但大约一周后，酒吧老板改变了主意。
Malke's friend called and told him.
马尔克的朋友打电话告诉了他。
And that was just because you're a funny guy, and people thought--
那只是因为你是个有趣的人，人们认为——
That's it.
就是这样。
I don't know shit about standup at that time.
那时我对站立一无所知。
Like, I'm coming from NGOs and bank background, you know?
就像，我来自非政府组织和银行背景，你知道吗？
So you worked in a bank, but you told jokes to your friends, and your friends were like--
所以你在银行工作，但你给你的朋友讲笑话，而你的朋友就像——
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
是的，是的，是的，是的。
Most of my jokes come from that.
我的大部分笑话都是由此而来。
I'm a good roaster at-- [CHUCKLES] I was at the bank, so--
我是一名优秀的烘焙师——[笑]我在银行，所以——
And how did it go at Mad Monkey, your first gig?
你的第一场演出《Mad Monkey》进展如何？
Shit.
拉屎。
Shit, shit, man.
妈的，妈的，伙计。
Pure shit.
纯属狗屎。
It's the purest shit you've ever seen in your life.
这是你一生中见过的最纯粹的狗屎。
Did people laugh?
人们笑了吗？
Malke Mardinali The people were sick, [LAUGHS] not laugh.
Malke Mardinali 人们病了，[笑]不是笑。
They told Bisan, come on, turn on the music on now.
他们告诉 Bisan，来吧，现在打开音乐。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Malke had decided to quit the bank, tired of counting other people's money.
由于厌倦了数别人的钱，马尔克决定退出银行。
And out of the blue, Sharief called him to invite him to a standup workshop he was hosting.
突然，沙里夫打电话给他，邀请他参加他正在主持的一个站立研讨会。
At the same day, man, at the same day, 2:00 PM, I signed that paper.
同一天，伙计，同一天，下午 2:00，我签署了那份文件。
4:00 PM, Sharief called me, at the same day.
下午 4:00，谢里夫在同一天给我打电话。
And I remember when I called, he said I cannot come at this time.
我记得当我打电话时，他说我这个时候不能来。
This is the sheikh.
这是酋长。
Ayman Oghanna Oh, the sheikh is calling Malke now.
艾曼·奥加纳 哦，酋长现在正在给马尔克打电话。
Hello?
你好？
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Ayman Oghanna Malke answers the phone.
[阿拉伯语] 艾曼·奥加纳·马尔克接听电话。
Sharief paces the room, smoking and listening carefully.
谢里夫在房间里踱步，一边抽烟，一边仔细地听着。
The call lasts about 15 minutes.
通话持续约 15 分钟。
Alla rasi Sukran ilak, shukran.
Alla rasi Sukran ilak，shukran。
Alla rasi, shukran.
阿拉拉西，舒克兰。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Man, this is insane.
伙计，这太疯狂了。
15 minutes on the phone just to talk-- just to say that you are not allowed to do your standup in Hama, OK?
打电话 15 分钟只是为了谈谈——只是说你不被允许在哈马做单口相声，好吗？
After this call, he will reconsider the things.
这次通话之后，他会重新考虑这些事情。
What the sheikh said in the call was that he didn't know who canceled the show, but he understood why someone would cancel it.
酋长在电话中表示，他不知道是谁取消了演出，但他理解为什么有人会取消演出。
He'd actually seen their set in Muhardah a few months back, and he thought some of the content was inappropriate.
事实上，几个月前他在 Muhardah 看过他们的演出，他认为其中的一些内容不合适。
And certainly, it would be for Hama, but not because of anything to do with LGBTQ material.
当然，这也是为了 Hama，但与 LGBTQ 材料无关。
So what were the kind of things he was saying to you?
那么他对你说了些什么呢？
[LAUGHS] Man, this is insane.
[笑]伙计，这太疯狂了。
He told me that you can't say your material in Hama because it's offensive to the family values.
他告诉我，你不能在哈马说你的材料，因为它冒犯了家庭价值观。
Because we are talking about our parents.
因为我们谈论的是我们的父母。
So he felt that, oh, they are breaking the bonds between the families.
所以他觉得哦,他们正在破坏家庭之间的纽带。
They are affecting the people that will watch these kind of shows, that we are a threat.
他们正在影响观看此类节目的人们，让他们认为我们是一个威胁。
That's how we-- we are a threat to the family, you know?
这就是我们——我们对家庭的威胁，你知道吗？
We are a threat to the family values.
我们对家庭价值观构成威胁。
This is much more insane than the LGBTQ support thing, man.
这比 LGBTQ 支持更疯狂，伙计。
This is really new, man.
这真的很新，伙计。
This is really new.
这确实是新的。
All of us have jokes on our parents, man.
我们所有人都会拿我们的父母开玩笑，伙计。
Everybody!
大家！
This is insane.
这太疯狂了。
It's my dad, man.
这是我爸爸，伙计。
It's my dad.
这是我爸爸。
If I can't speak on my dad, what else should I speak of?
如果我不能谈论我的父亲，我还能谈论什么呢？
For what should I speak?
我该说什么？
This is my family.
这是我的家人。
This is my culture.
这就是我的文化。
This is we are doing standup comedy for the sheikh, not for the people, you know?
这是我们为酋长而不是人民做的单口喜剧，你知道吗？
This is how things are now going.
现在的情况就是这样。
The first three months, we had freedom.
前三个月，我们有自由。
Yeah.
是的。
What was that like?
那是什么样子的？
Malke Mardinali It was amazing.
马尔克·马尔迪纳利 太棒了。
It's like coming from dark to the light.
就像从黑暗走向光明。
Then we are slowly closing the window, now slowly closing the door, slowly closing the curtains.
然后我们慢慢地关上窗户，现在慢慢地关上门，慢慢地关上窗帘。
This is bad.
这很糟糕。
This is bad.
这很糟糕。
It's like, it's better if I never had it.
就像，如果我从来没有拥有过就好了。
Oh, shit.
妈的。
Here we go again, you know?
我们又来了，你知道吗？
Oh, shit.
妈的。
Here we go, another Assad regime.
又一个阿萨德政权来了。
On the call, Malke told the sheikh they wanted to perform in Hama to show that Hama isn't just some strict and conservative city where nothing happens.
在电话中，马尔克告诉酋长，他们想在哈马演出，以表明哈马不仅仅是一个什么都没有发生的严格和保守的城市。
The sheikh said he'd look into it and get back to them with a final answer soon.
酋长表示他会调查此事并尽快给他们答复。
So he's going to call back in a few hours with his decision?
那么他会在几个小时后回电告知他的决定吗？
The brothers is Malke's sardonic way of referring to the Islamist officials now running things.
“兄弟”是马尔克讽刺地指代现在掌权的伊斯兰官员。
They will call the brotherhood.
他们会称之为兄弟会。
He will call them and will have their advice.
他会打电话给他们并听取他们的建议。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Ayman Oghanna --piling into a bright yellow van with stickers lining the sides saying "Styria" in the font of Grand Theft Auto.
[阿拉伯语]艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) ——挤进一辆亮黄色的货车，两侧贴着侠盗猎车手字体的“施蒂利亚”贴纸。
Malke is driving.
马尔克正在开车。
Sharief sits behind him.
沙里夫坐在他身后。
There's so much equipment in the back that Malke can't see out the rear window.
后面有太多的设备，马尔克看不到后窗外的情况。
It's about three hours to Salamiyeh, stop 6 on the tour, depending on checkpoints.
到达萨拉米耶 (萨拉米耶) 大约需要三个小时，这是旅行中的第 6 站，具体取决于检查站。
Sharief send me a screenshot that he is pushing also in Muhardah.
谢里夫给我发了一张他也在 Muhardah 中推送的屏幕截图。
Muhardah is the show tomorrow night.
Muhardah 是明天晚上的节目。
The sheikh is now saying that show might be canceled as well.
酋长现在表示演出也可能被取消。
I think a few hours, I'm going to make some phone calls to understand what the hell is going on.
我想几个小时后我会打几个电话来了解到底发生了什么事。
And what's your strategy with the sheikh?
你对酋长的策略是什么？
How are you going to convince him or control him or influence him?
你要如何说服他或控制他或影响他？
I hope I don't have to.
我希望我不必这样做。
Because if the sheikh didn't kill me, my parents will.
因为如果酋长没有杀我，我的父母就会杀了我。
So I'm dead either here or there.
所以我要么死在这里，要么死在那里。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] I told him we will not stop.
[说阿拉伯语]我告诉他我们不会停止。
So if they want to stop, let them stop us khalas.
所以如果他们想阻止，就让他们阻止我们卡拉斯吧。
If it's going to go to jail, please take me to jail.
如果要进监狱，请带我去监狱。
I miss it.
我很想念它。
And with all this drama, do you want to perform in Hama?
这么多戏剧，你想在哈马表演吗？
Yes.
是的。
Our show is sold out in Hama.
我们的演出在哈马的门票已经售完。
Man, there is 200 people right now.
伙计，现在有200人。
The only entertainment they have here is us so far, besides killing each other, you know?
到目前为止，他们在这里唯一的娱乐就是我们，除了互相残杀，你知道吗？
So we are a must, not a need.
所以我们是必须的，而不是需要的。
A few minutes later, still on the road to Salamiyeh, Malke gets a text.
几分钟后，仍在前往萨拉米耶的路上，马尔克收到一条短信。
The sheikh just texted me that not going to be a show in Hama.
酋长刚刚给我发短信说不会在哈马演出。
This is final decision.
这是最终决定。
So what are you going to do?
那么你要做什么？
Malke Mardinali We're going to tell the people in Hama to come to our show in Muhardah.
Malke Mardinali：我们要告诉哈马的人们来观看我们在 Muhardah 的演出。
Yes, of course I'm going to tell them why.
是的，我当然会告诉他们原因。
For them, this isn't over.
对他们来说，这还没有结束。
They could let it go, but Malke won't.
他们可以放手，但马尔克不会。
They decide to test the limits another way-- make it public, and see who's stronger right now, the government or the people.
他们决定以另一种方式测试极限——将其公开，看看现在谁更强大，政府还是人民。
They want to use public opinion to force them to reinstate the show.
他们想利用舆论来迫使他们恢复节目。
The Styria comedians are all pretty young.
施泰尔马克州的喜剧演员都很年轻。
They think in TikTok and Instagram.
他们用 TikTok 和 Instagram 思考。
They believe a big enough online following will give them protection from government officials trying to silence them.
他们相信，足够多的网上粉丝可以保护他们免受政府官员试图压制他们的影响。
They have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram.
他们在 Instagram 上拥有数十万粉丝。
Syria's revolutionaries also used social media to rise to power.
叙利亚革命者也利用社交媒体上台。
But now that they run things, they fear it, fear posts that inflame sectarian tempers, fear looking weak.
但现在他们管理事情，他们害怕它，害怕煽动宗派脾气的帖子，害怕看起来软弱。
At the same time, they don't want to look like the old regime, repressive and censoring in public.
与此同时，他们不想看起来像旧政权那样，在公共场合进行压制和审查。
So they pressure quietly, in private, and the comedians answer loudly online.
所以他们私下里悄悄施压，而喜剧演员则在网上大声回应。
Malke and Sharief go on the offensive.
马尔克和沙里夫继续进攻。
They post that the Hama show is canceled, and tell Hama fans to come to Muhardah instead.
他们发布消息称 Hama 演出已取消，并告诉 Hama 粉丝转而前往 Muhardah。
They'll add seats.
他们会增加座位。
They'll arrange buses.
他们会安排巴士。
They're trying to turn the followers into force.
他们正试图将追随者变成力量。
It's a respectful post, not calling anyone out.
这是一个尊重的帖子，不是呼唤任何人。
But they figure their fans will understand why it was canceled, get pissed off, and put pressure on the government.
但他们认为他们的粉丝会理解为什么它被取消，并感到愤怒，并向政府施加压力。
But then one of the other comedians, Abo Azez, goes rogue on his personal Instagram account.
但随后，另一位喜剧演员阿博·阿泽兹 (Abo Azez) 在他的个人 Instagram 账户上表现失常。
Crazy, man.
疯了，伙计。
Malke Mardinali --crazy.
马尔克·马尔迪纳利——疯狂。
He's not diplomatic, you know?
他不擅长外交，你知道吗？
He's not diplomatic.
他不擅长外交。
He--
他——
Very stupid and very-- Sharief Homsi Very Abo Azez.
非常愚蠢，非常——Sharief Homsi，非常阿博·阿泽兹。
--very Abo Azez, you know?
——非常阿博·阿泽兹，你知道吗？
Ayman Oghanna On Instagram, Abo Azez goes off.
艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 在 Instagram 上，阿博·阿泽兹 (Abo Azez) 发怒。
He rants about the secretariat for Political Affairs in Hama, says they accused the troupe of LGBTQ content and of being a threat to family values.
他对哈马政治事务秘书处大肆咆哮，称他们指责该剧团传播 LGBTQ 内容，并对家庭价值观构成威胁。
He blames them for canceling Hama.
他指责他们取消哈马。
We're back to how we were before, he says, which sounds pretty mild, but he's comparing the new government to the old regime, which is dangerous.
他说，我们又回到了以前的状态，这听起来很温和，但他将新政府与旧政权进行了比较，这是危险的。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Ayman Oghanna Abo Azez has nearly 300,000 followers.
[阿拉伯语] Ayman Oghanna Abo Azez 拥有近 300,000 名追随者。
Him posting online left some in the group nervous, but excited Malke and Sharief.
他在网上发的帖子让小组中的一些人感到紧张，但马尔克和沙里夫却感到兴奋。
The comments start right away, angry at the government.
评论立即开始，对政府感到愤怒。
Word gets back.
话又回来了。
Someone from Political Affairs calls Abo Azez.
政治事务部有人打电话给阿博·阿泽兹。
Political Affairs also contacts the sheikh.
政治事务部还与酋长联系。
The sheikh calls Malke.
酋长打电话给马尔克。
Malke doesn't pick up, so the sheikh follows with a text.
马尔克没有接电话，酋长随后发了一条短信。
I didn't answer.
我没有回答。
I will let him, khalas.
我会让他的，卡拉斯。
We have canceled this show.
我们已经取消了这个节目。
Then when--
然后当——
Within an hour, answer him.
一个小时之内，回答他。
Malke Mardinali I think--
马尔克·马尔迪纳利 我认为——
In an hour, answer him.
一个小时后，回答他。
Malke Mardinali I think I will tell-- no, leave him in half an hour.
Malke Mardinali 我想我会告诉——不，半小时后离开他。
Let things boil up, you know?
让事情沸腾，你知道吗？
So I leave him now.
所以我现在就离开他了。
I think an hour later or maybe in the evening, they will tell us, do your show in Hama.
我想一个小时后或者也许在晚上，他们会告诉我们，在哈马演出。
Some members of the group are worried by the strategy, wishing they had been consulted first.
该组织的一些成员对该策略感到担忧，希望首先征求他们的意见。
But almost as quickly as they stir up the online shitstorm, Sharief gets a text from the Hama venue owner.
但几乎就在他们掀起网上风暴的同时，沙里夫就收到了哈马场馆老板的短信。
No matter what, he won't let them use the venue.
无论如何，他都不会让他们使用场地。
It's not worth it to him.
这对他来说不值得。
He's scared of a visit from the authorities-- a fine, a lost license, a knock on the door, or worse, an attack.
他害怕当局的来访——罚款、丢失执照、敲门，或者更糟糕的是，袭击。
Malke and Sharief have officially lost the battle for Hama.
马尔克和沙里夫正式输掉了哈马之战。
They're still trying to direct people to come to the Muhardah show instead, but now that might be canceled as well.
他们仍在尝试引导人们改为观看 Muhardah 表演，但现在也可能被取消。
They play Salamiyeh that night.
那天晚上他们演奏了《萨拉米耶》。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Wow.
[说阿拉伯语] 哇。
[APPLAUSE, CHEERING]
[掌声、欢呼]
Hey.
嘿。
Ayman Oghanna It goes great-- standing ovation.
艾曼·奥加纳（Ayman Oghanna） 进展顺利——起立鼓掌。
Ayman Oghanna Then, after the show, a call from the Ministry of Media.
艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 演出结束后，媒体部打来电话。
This guy is furious about Abo Azez's post and tries to stop the show they've just finished.
这家伙对阿博·阿泽兹的帖子感到愤怒，并试图阻止他们刚刚结束的节目。
Are you worried they're going to stop your other shows?
你担心他们会阻止你的其他节目吗？
Now, tomorrow, it's going to be Muhardah.
现在，明天，就是 Muhardah。
No, they are not going to come to Muhardah.
不，他们不会来穆哈达。
Maybe they will do some phone calls, and that's it.
也许他们会打一些电话，仅此而已。
It's now our move.
现在是我们的行动了。
On the chessboard, it's now our move.
棋盘上，现在是我们的棋步了。
We have the media.
我们有媒体。
We have the people.
我们有人。
They have weapons.
他们有武器。
Yes.
是的。
So Abo Azez is a very powerful chess piece.
所以阿博·阿泽兹是一个非常强大的棋子。
Yeah.
是的。
No, he's very Tahish, we call it, that the one who-- like a tank, you know?
不，他非常塔希什（Tahish），我们称之为，那个人——就像一辆坦克，你知道吗？
This is the first who come into the battle.
这是最先投入战斗的人。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
Malke Mardinali And then people come, like snipers and military.
Malke Mardinali：然后人们就来了，比如狙击手和军队。
And everything is a war.
一切都是战争。
Yeah, in Syria, everything is a war.
是的，在叙利亚，一切都是战争。
Even the art is a war, yanni.
即使艺术也是一场战争，雅尼。
Malke isn't worried about the show in Muhardah.
马尔克并不担心穆哈达的演出。
He tells me it's a Christian town, so the sheikh has no power there.
他告诉我这是一个基督教城镇，所以酋长在那里没有权力。
Ayman Oghanna.
艾曼·奥加纳。
Coming up, "Muhardah, She Wrote." The comedy show moves on to Muhardah.
即将推出“穆哈达，她写的”。喜剧表演转向 Muhardah。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, a Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar.
今天的节目中，一名基督徒和一名穆斯林走进一家酒吧。
We pick up with reporter Ayman Oghanna and the comedians of Styria on their tour of the country for Act Three, an act we're calling, "Is This Thing On?"
我们采访了记者艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 和施泰尔马克州的喜剧演员，他们正在为第三幕进行全国巡演，我们称之为“Is This Thing On?”
It's morning.
现在是早上。
We're back in the van, heading from Salamiyeh to Muhardah, a show they hope will still happen and where a busload of fans from Hama will join them.
我们回到车里，从萨拉米耶前往穆哈达，他们希望这场演出仍能举行，一车来自哈马的粉丝也会加入他们的行列。
We pass a car with a rocket launcher on the roof.
我们经过一辆车顶装有火箭发射器的汽车。
This is-- Sharief Homsi A rocket launcher, man, on a Humvee.
这是——Sharief Homsi 悍马车上的火箭发射器。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Monuments of Syria's bloody war still dot the roads.
叙利亚血腥战争的纪念碑仍然点缀在道路上。
We see bombed-out buildings and burnt-out cars on the way.
我们在路上看到被炸毁的建筑物和烧毁的汽车。
We have a system for checkpoints.
我们有一个检查站系统。
Malke flashes a big smile, and I hide my recording equipment under a coat.
马尔克露出灿烂的笑容，我把录音设备藏在外套下面。
Checkpoint for-- Ayman Oghanna OK, checkpoint.
检查站——Ayman Oghanna 好的，检查站。
I need to take my headphones off.
我需要摘下耳机。
Malke is flying high this morning.
马尔克今天早上飞得很高。
We're leaving the more conservative Sunni Muslim areas and heading to a Christian town.
我们将离开较为保守的逊尼派穆斯林地区，前往一个基督教城镇。
Christians are a minority in Syria, about 10% before the war.
基督徒在叙利亚占少数，战前约占 10%。
And Malke is Christian.
马尔克是基督徒。
He's relaxed, in shorts, grinning as he drives.
他很放松，穿着短裤，开车时微笑着。
So this is Muhardah?
这就是穆哈达吗？
Malke Mardinali Yes, this is Muhardah.
Malke Mardinali 是的，我是 Muhardah。
Welcome to the Christian people!
欢迎基督教徒！
Fuck you, Sharief!
去你妈的，谢里夫！
Malke Mardinali Woo!
马尔克·马尔迪纳利 呜！
Hallelujah!
哈利路亚！
Hallelujah.
哈利路亚。
Now we are safe.
现在我们安全了。
Now we are safe from HTS--
现在我们已经安全了，免受高温超导的影响——
Why?
为什么？
Malke Mardinali --and all the governments.
马尔克·马尔迪纳利——以及所有政府。
This is a Christian country.
这是一个基督教国家。
Here, this is a Christian land.
在这里，这是一片基督教的土地。
No Muslim is allowed to go here.
任何穆斯林都不允许进入这里。
Ayman, are you Christian?
艾曼，你是基督徒吗？
I am.
我是。
Malke Mardinali Yes.
马尔克·马尔迪纳利 是的。
Welcome home.
欢迎回家。
Have you heard from anyone who's from Hama who's taking the bus tonight?
您听说过今晚乘坐公共汽车的哈马人吗？
I don't know, but I think there is 40, 50 people, something like this.
我不知道，但我认为有 40、50 人，类似这样的人。
I feel that when the evening come, it will be 60 or I think 60, 70, something like this.
我觉得当晚上到来时，就会是60，或者我想是60、70，类似这样的。
I hope it's going to be good.
我希望一切都会好起来。
This is where we drink a lot.
这是我们经常喝酒的地方。
This is the place.
就是这个地方。
They are very, very, very generous, very generous here.
他们在这里非常非常非常慷慨。
Because they are Christian.
因为他们是基督徒。
Everyone is happy, smiling.
每个人都很开心，笑容满面。
They order pizza.
他们点了披萨。
(SINGING) I go back to us [BACKGROUND CHATTER]
（唱歌）我回到我们身边[背景喋喋不休]
But an hour later, the mood changes.
但一个小时后，气氛发生了变化。
Malke looks distressed.
马尔克看起来很苦恼。
He has changed back into jeans, as conservative Syrians frown upon men wearing shorts.
他又换回牛仔裤，因为保守的叙利亚人不喜欢穿短裤的男人。
We get back into the car with the venue owner for the show tonight.
我们和场地老板一起回到车里观看今晚的演出。
Hey, Malke, tell me exactly what's happening.
嘿，马尔克，告诉我到底发生了什么事。
Oh, a lot happening.
哦，发生了很多事情。
A lot.
很多。
Let me think about it first.
让我先考虑一下。
Then I will talk to you just to--
然后我会跟你谈谈——
The venue owner has gotten a call from the local government in Muhardah asking him to come in for a meeting.
场地所有者接到穆哈达当地政府的电话，要求他参加会议。
We drive to the local municipal building.
我们开车前往当地的市政大楼。
I walk with Malke, but get stopped at the stairwell, while Malke and the venue owner go into an office.
我和马尔克一起走，但在楼梯间被拦住了，而马尔克和场地老板走进了一间办公室。
A few minutes later, Malke comes back and says I can come in.
几分钟后，马尔克回来说我可以进来了。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Plus this, give it to the boys outside.
[说阿拉伯语]加上这个，给外面的男孩们。
Give what?
给什么？
The recorder?
录音机？
Malke Mardinali Yes, the recording and the headset.
Malke Mardinali 是的，录音和耳机。
OK, sure.
好的，当然。
I can listen-- Malke Mardinali And your bag also.
我可以听——Malke Mardinali 还有你的包。
OK.
好的。
They take my bag, the recorder, everyone's phones.
他们拿走了我的包、录音机和每个人的手机。
There are two government men inside the office-- beards, shaved mustaches, military outfits.
办公室里有两名政府人员——留着胡子，剃光了胡子，穿着军装。
They look straight out of central casting.
它们看起来是直接从中央铸造出来的。
But they're polite.
但他们很有礼貌。
One asks if we want coffee.
有人问我们要不要喝咖啡。
Another then brings glass cups of Nescafe 3-in-1, a sugary instant coffee ubiquitous across the Middle East.
然后另一个人带来了玻璃杯雀巢三合一咖啡，这是一种在中东随处可见的含糖速溶咖啡。
My translator waits downstairs, so I don't follow everything.
我的翻译在楼下等着，所以我没有听懂一切。
But one of the government guys says he recognizes me.
但其中一位政府人员说他认识我。
I'd covered the Syrian war, and we had been in the same towns in Idlib province.
我报道了叙利亚战争，我们也去过伊德利卜省的同一个城镇。
Malke later jokes that 10 years ago, they may have kidnapped me.
马尔克后来开玩笑说，十年前，他们可能绑架了我。
It's a different country to report in now.
现在是在不同的国家进行报道。
I watch the room.
我看着房间。
The older one sits behind a desk, does most of the talking.
年长的坐在桌子后面，大部分时间都是在说话。
Eventually, another brings in a piece of paper and beckons the venue owner to come to him.
最终，另一个人拿来一张纸，示意场地老板过来。
The owner is nervous and doesn't hesitate to sign it.
业主紧张不已，毫不犹豫地签了字。
Malke explained to me what was going on afterwards.
马尔克向我解释了后来发生的事情。
They were very angry.
他们非常生气。
So they told us that we can't do our show in Muhardah because there is no permission from Hama Political Affairs.
所以他们告诉我们，我们不能在穆哈达进行演出，因为没有得到哈马政治事务部的许可。
So now, we are making some phone calls to have that permission.
所以现在，我们正在打电话以获得许可。
I hope to have it, yanni.
我希望能拥有它，雅尼。
Malke had miscalculated.
马尔克失算了。
He figured that because Muhardah is a Christian town, the sheikh and the local Hama government wouldn't have reach here.
他认为，由于穆哈达是一个基督教城镇，酋长和当地的哈马政府不会到达这里。
But instead, the local politicians in Muhardah are telling them, if they want to do tonight's show in Muhardah, they need to get permission from the sheikh and the other bureaucrats in Hama, the ones they started a battle with yesterday, the ones now threatening a libel case.
但相反，穆哈达当地政客告诉他们，如果他们想今晚在穆哈达进行演出，他们需要获得酋长和哈马其他官僚的许可，他们昨天与他们发生了争执，现在威胁要提起诽谤案。
Obligation.
义务。
Ayman Oghanna Saying?
艾曼·奥加纳说？
He promises--
他承诺——
Saying that he promises that he won't let us do the show without written permission from their office.
他说他保证没有他们办公室的书面许可他不会让我们做这个节目。
No. No. Ayman Oghanna When you arrived in Muhardah, you were like, we're free now and no one can stop us.
不。不。艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 当你到达穆哈达 (Muhardah) 时，你会说，我们现在自由了，没有人可以阻止我们。
So how do you feel now?
那么你现在感觉如何？
Shit.
拉屎。
Shit.
拉屎。
Shit.
拉屎。
They have more power than I thought here.
他们的力量比我想象的还要大。
This is dangerous.
这很危险。
Yesterday, they were very upset with us doing the show in Salamiyeh.
昨天，他们对我们在萨拉米耶演出感到非常不满。
So now, they will prevent us from doing the show here.
所以现在，他们会阻止我们在这里演出。
I don't know what things will happen the next few hours.
我不知道接下来的几个小时会发生什么事情。
Their only path tonight is persistence.
今晚他们唯一的出路就是坚持。
If they can get permission from the Hama officials Abo Azez just insulted, they can still go on in Muhardah.
如果他们能得到刚刚被阿博·阿齐兹侮辱的哈马官员的许可，他们仍然可以继续穆哈达。
It's 3:15 PM.
现在是下午 3:15。
The show is at 7:00.
演出时间为7:00。
It's sold out.
已经卖完了。
Buses of fans are supposed to come from Hama.
球迷的巴士应该来自哈马。
We get in the car-- me, Malke, and the venue owner-- and head towards Hama to try to talk to the politicians and see if there's any way to save tonight's show in Muhardah.
我们、马尔克和场馆老板上了车，前往哈马，尝试与政客交谈，看看是否有办法挽救今晚在穆哈达的演出。
10 minutes out, the venue owner answers his phone.
10分钟后，场馆老板接听了他的电话。
I can't tell what the call is about, but he goes quiet, then asks us to turn back.
我不知道电话的内容，但他安静下来，然后让我们回去。
We head back to Muhardah, to the same cafe.
我们回到穆哈达，去了同一家咖啡馆。
Malke smokes a cigarette on the street outside, defeated.
马尔克在外面的街道上抽烟，一脸挫败。
Because they started to hurt him now.
因为他们现在开始伤害他了。
They started to hurt him.
他们开始伤害他。
I'm sorry, man, I have to stop this because I'm very tired now.
对不起，伙计，我必须停下来，因为我现在很累了。
Malke later told me that the venue owner got a call from his dad.
马尔克后来告诉我，场地老板接到了他父亲的电话。
The government is also putting pressure on him, real enough pressure that he got scared and didn't want to cause more trouble by heading to Hama.
政府也在向他施加压力，真正的压力让他感到害怕，不想因为前往哈马而引起更多麻烦。
To make matters worse, on the way back, Malke also gets a call.
更糟糕的是，在回来的路上，马尔克还接到了一个电话。
First, they've been told they needed permission from the Political Affairs Office in Hama to run the Muhardah show.
首先，他们被告知需要获得哈马政治事务办公室的许可才能举办 Muhardah 节目。
Now, the bar moves even farther away from them.
现在，酒吧离他们更远了。
Officials are now saying they need three permissions-- from Political Affairs and also from the Ministries of Tourism and Culture.
官员们现在表示，他们需要三项许可——来自政治事务部以及旅游和文化部的许可。
And the guy running the local office of the Ministry of Culture is the sheikh.
文化部当地办公室的负责人是酋长。
All because of what?
都是因为什么？
What have you guys said or done?
你们都说了些什么或者做了什么？
This is because of jokes.
这是因为笑话。
Yes, this is because of jokes.
是的，这是因为笑话。
I can't think of a place shittier than here, you know?
我想不出还有比这里更糟糕的地方了，你知道吗？
I hate this country.
我讨厌这个国家。
I swear to God, I hate it from the bottom of my heart.
我向上帝发誓，我从心底里讨厌它。
This is a message that you don't play with us.
这是一条消息，表明您不要和我们一起玩。
Yes, yes.
是的，是的。
For them.
对于他们来说。
This is insane.
这太疯狂了。
This is insane.
这太疯狂了。
I'm tired now, mentally and physically tired.
我现在很累，精神上和身体上都很累。
I'm using all my connections.
我正在使用我所有的连接。
And when I do, when I put 9 on the table, they put 10.
当我这样做时，当我把 9 放在桌子上时，他们就把 10 放在桌子上。
I put 10, a guy, they put a queen.
我放了 10 个，一个男人，他们放了一个皇后。
I put a king, they put an ace.
我放了一张 K，他们放了一张 A。
So it's always fuck.
所以总是他妈的。
We're going to wait one more hour, and then we will know what to do.
我们要再等一个小时，然后我们就会知道该怎么做。
We need an hour, I think.
我想我们需要一个小时。
[EXHALES]
[呼气]
Man, I don't know what to do.
伙计，我不知道该怎么办。
I don't want it to be a fight.
我不希望这是一场战斗。
I want to be in agreement.
我想达成一致。
Well, you want to be a comedian, and you can't do that.
好吧，你想成为一名喜剧演员，但你做不到。
[LAUGHS] This is the last thing I think of right now, actually.
[笑]实际上，这是我现在想到的最后一件事。
I swear to God, this is the last thing I think of.
我向上帝发誓，这是我想到的最后一件事。
Malke hasn't eaten since yesterday.
马尔克从昨天起就没吃过东西。
He's running on coffee and cigarettes.
他靠着咖啡和香烟奔跑。
He's getting impatient with my questions.
他对我的问题越来越不耐烦了。
He and the other comedians start talking in Arabic around a crowded table.
他和其他喜剧演员开始围着一张拥挤的桌子用阿拉伯语交谈。
The conversation is heated.
谈话很激烈。
I find Sharief outside the cafe, emotional.
我在咖啡馆外发现沙里夫，情绪激动。
OK, man, I can see you have tears in your eyes.
好吧，伙计，我看到你眼里含着泪水。
You're upset.
你很不高兴。
Walla bro, I feel sad, you know?
瓦拉兄弟，我感到很难过，你知道吗？
I'm sad because the people who got influence now, they're using Bashar ways and Bashar law to stop us from making people have some fun.
我很伤心，因为现在有影响力的人，他们正在利用巴沙尔方式和巴沙尔法来阻止我们让人们享受一些乐趣。
Yeah, how is freedom of expression working out for you in Syria now?
是的，您现在在叙利亚的言论自由状况如何？
It's not working at all.
它根本不起作用。
It's not working.
它不起作用。
And the thing are working is not freedom, are who have the bigger balls.
真正起作用的不是自由，而是谁拥有更大的胆量。
And how are the other guys taking the news?
其他人如何看待这个消息？
Some of them are scared.
他们中的一些人很害怕。
Some of them-- Qassim imagine he's scared.
其中一些——卡西姆想象他很害怕。
He's a doctor in the university.
他是大学里的一名医生。
He's scared that might reach him in a way that they will let him go from the university.
他担心这可能会影响到他，导致他们让他离开大学。
Other want to make money.
其他的想赚钱。
Other want to make fame.
其他人想出名。
Other want to make the project continue.
其他人希望使该项目继续下去。
It's their own right to feel and do whatever they want.
感受并做任何他们想做的事情是他们自己的权利。
But for me, I push by myself.
但对我来说，我自己推动。
Yeah.
是的。
So let's see.
那么让我们看看。
But soon after this conversation, they call it.
但这次谈话后不久，他们就这样称呼它。
Malke can't secure the three permissions in time, so they're forced to cancel just three hours before showtime.
马尔克无法及时获得这三项许可，因此他们被迫在演出前三个小时取消。
They post on Styria's Instagram that the show's off due to unforeseen circumstances and tell people they'll refund tickets.
他们在施泰尔马克州的 Instagram 上发帖称演出因不可预见的情况而取消，并告诉人们他们将退还门票。
Now they're worried the government is also going to cancel their show in Aleppo, which is two days away.
现在他们担心政府也会取消两天后在阿勒颇举行的演出。
I find them hours later in Sharief's hotel room.
几个小时后，我在沙里夫的酒店房间里找到了他们。
One of the other comedians is giving Sharief a massage.
另一位喜剧演员正在给沙里夫按摩。
[LAUGHTER] That night, instead of doing their show, they get drunk and dance until 3:00 in the morning.
[笑声] 那天晚上，他们没有表演，而是喝醉了，跳舞直到凌晨 3:00。
The next day, the politicians in Hama want Abo Azez to bend the knee, apologize.
第二天，哈马政界人士希望阿博·阿齐兹跪下道歉。
Malke says he won't make Abo Azez do that alone.
马尔克表示，他不会让阿博·阿泽兹独自完成这件事。
We get in the car to Hama to meet Abo Azez, who's already driven up from Damascus.
我们乘车前往哈马与阿博·阿泽兹会面，他已经从大马士革开车过来了。
Malke is anxious and frustrated.
马尔克既焦虑又沮丧。
So what are you hoping?
那么你希望什么？
You're going to see these guys, and what?
你会看到这些人，然后呢？
To end this madness, man.
为了结束这种疯狂，伙计。
To end this madness.
为了结束这种疯狂。
I think we've been in this case three days now.
我想我们遇到这种情况已经三天了。
Yeah.
是的。
Malke Mardinali The fuck is this, man?
Malke Mardinali 这他妈的是什么，伙计？
Three days?
三天？
Three days for a fucking comedy show?
三天的喜剧表演？
They are wrong, OK?
他们错了，好吗？
They are the political affair.
它们是政治事务。
They are wrong.
他们错了。
But we didn't play well.
但我们打得不好。
When we play, we gave them our neck.
当我们玩耍时，我们把脖子交给了他们。
We get to the Political Affairs Office and inside a large, drab, concrete government building.
我们到达政治事务办公室，进入一栋巨大、单调、混凝土的政府大楼内。
At the door, the security guard says they're expecting us, and Malke tightens.
在门口，保安说他们正在等我们，马尔克紧张起来。
Up a dim stairwell to a large office, three suited officials sit in a row like judges facing out.
走上昏暗的楼梯间，来到一间大办公室，三名西装革履的官员坐成一排，就像面朝外的法官一样。
One of them is the infamous sheikh.
其中之一就是臭名昭著的酋长。
We're shown to chairs by their side.
我们被带到了他们旁边的椅子上。
Abo Azez is already there.
阿博·阿泽兹已经在那里了。
Malke tells me to put my recorder outside again.
马尔克让我把录音机再放到外面。
Please, we're going to take this outside.
拜托，我们要把这个带到外面去。
Then we're going to talk.
然后我们就来谈谈。
All right.
好的。
The meeting begins.
会议开始。
It's all in Arabic, but my translator is there and takes notes.
全部都是阿拉伯语，但我的翻译在那里做笔记。
The government officials are stern and condescending.
政府官员态度严厉、居高临下。
Their age and authority looms over Abo Azez and Malke.
他们的年龄和权威笼罩着阿博·阿齐兹和马尔克。
They have the room.
他们有房间。
The men from Political Affairs tell the comedians they were insulted by Abo Azez's post, that it's unacceptable to compare them to the Assad regime.
政治事务部的人告诉喜剧演员，他们受到阿博·阿齐兹的帖子的侮辱，将他们与阿萨德政权进行比较是不可接受的。
They ask Abo Azez how many people saw his post.
他们询问 Abo Azez 有多少人看到了他的帖子。
He says 47,000 and apologizes, says what he did was wrong.
他说 47,000 并道歉，说他做错了。
The officials say that in addition to the post being inappropriate, it wasn't true.
官员们表示，除了该帖子不恰当之外，这也不是事实。
They never canceled the show.
他们从未取消过演出。
Malke pushes back.
马尔克反击。
That's what his fixer was told when he had gone to pay the fees for the show.
当他去支付演出费用时，他的经纪人被告知了这一点。
Whatever the truth of that, the three officials do have a lot to say about the content of the shows.
不管真相如何，三位官员对于节目的内容确实有很多话要说。
One of them says that he went to one of their shows a few months back, that he sat in the front row with his son.
其中一人说，几个月前他去看了他们的一场演出，他和儿子坐在前排。
He says, I regretted bringing him, but what calmed me was that he fell asleep during the show.
他说，我很后悔带他来，但让我平静的是他在演出时睡着了。
From the start, all your jokes were about religion, sex, and sensitive topics that threaten civil peace.
从一开始，你所有的笑话都与宗教、性和威胁国内和平的敏感话题有关。
They remind the comedians that under Assad, they could joke about anything but politics.
他们提醒喜剧演员，在阿萨德的统治下，他们可以拿政治以外的任何东西开玩笑。
Now, they can joke as much as they want about politics or the government, but they can't joke about topics that could disturb the civil peace.
现在，他们可以随心所欲地拿政治或政府开玩笑，但他们不能拿可能扰乱国内和平的话题开玩笑。
They point to a little dance Abo Azez does at the start of his set.
他们指出阿博·阿泽兹在演出开始时跳的一段小舞蹈。
They say it's sexual.
他们说这是性的。
They say society's morals have deteriorated.
他们说社会道德败坏了。
Abo Azez apologizes a second time.
阿博·阿泽兹第二次道歉。
He tries to break the tension with a joke.
他试图用一个笑话来缓解紧张气氛。
He says, there are three things I love-- Ahmad al-Sharaa, Bashar al-Assad, and sport.
他说，我喜欢三件事——艾哈迈德·沙拉、巴沙尔·阿萨德和体育。
But the truth is, I only like two of them.
但事实是，我只喜欢其中两个。
You can choose whichever you like.
您可以选择您喜欢的任何一个。
It's a joke because Abo Azez is overweight, not a big athlete, and it's impossible to both love Sharaa and Assad.
这是一个笑话，因为阿博·阿泽兹超重，不是一个大运动员，而且不可能同时爱沙拉和阿萨德。
Silence.
沉默。
No smiles, no laughs.
没有笑容，没有笑声。
It's awkward.
很尴尬。
The message is clear-- this is not a joke.
信息很明确——这不是玩笑。
The meeting wraps up after an hour.
会议一个小时后结束。
Afterwards, I ask Abo Azez about it.
随后，我向阿博·阿泽兹询问了此事。
Do you regret the post now?
现在你后悔发这个帖子了吗？
Abo Azez Yes, I regret my reaction and putting the story.
阿博·阿泽兹 是的，我对自己的反应和发表这个故事感到遗憾。
Because if I do that and comparing them to the old regime, if I do that with the old regime, I will be killed or forcefully disappeared.
因为如果我这样做并将他们与旧政权进行比较，如果我与旧政权这样做，我将被杀害或强制消失。
But the new government have at least sat with me, discussed the issue with me, and they let me leave.
但新政府至少和我坐在一起，讨论了这个问题，然后他们让我离开了。
It says a lot about where Syria is now.
它充分说明了叙利亚现在的情况。
Not the old terror, not real freedom either.
不是以前的恐怖，也不是真正的自由。
The state will absolve you if you apologize, rather than make you disappear into the prison system.
如果你道歉，国家就会赦免你，而不是让你消失在监狱系统中。
You can post.
你可以发帖。
You can film.
你可以拍电影。
You can even argue in a room like that.
你们甚至可以在这样的房间里争论。
But you have to bow down to authority, which, after 50 years of dictatorship, Syrians know how to do.
但你必须向权威屈服，经过50年的独裁统治，叙利亚人知道该怎么做。
It seems to me like in Syria today, everyone has tasted freedom for the first time, and they're not sure what to do with it.
在我看来，就像今天在叙利亚，每个人都第一次尝到了自由的滋味，但他们不知道该怎么办。
Even the government don't even know what to do with freedom.
就连政府也不知道如何对待自由。
Yes.
是的。
[CHUCKLES] Of course.
[笑]当然。
You have said it, yanni khalas.
你已经说过了，雅尼·卡拉斯。
We are learning, and they are learning.
我们在学习，他们也在学习。
I spoke to the sheikh afterwards.
后来我和酋长谈过。
He reiterated that he didn't cancel the show.
他重申他没有取消演出。
He said his remit is cultural centers only, and the comedians are banned from the cultural centers in Hama.
他说他的职责仅限于文化中心，喜剧演员被禁止进入哈马的文化中心。
But anything in a private venue, he said, is outside his authority.
但他说，私人场所的任何事情都不属于他的职权范围。
He never told anyone to stop anything.
他从未告诉任何人停止任何事情。
He is lying, man.
他在撒谎，伙计。
Ayman Oghanna I told Malke about the conversation.
艾曼·奥格纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 我向马尔克讲述了这次谈话。
No. That's what they say after-- when feel the heat, you know?
不，这就是他们在感受到热量后所说的话，你知道吗？
"I'm sorry.
“对不起。
It's a misunderstanding." Fuck you, and fuck your misunderstanding.
这是一个误会。”操你妈，操你的误会。
Understand well, because you are in a position you have to understand well.
充分理解，因为你处在一个位置，你必须充分理解。
Any misunderstanding can lead to blood.
任何一个误会都可能酿成血案。
You have to be aware of what kind of business you do.
您必须了解自己从事什么类型的业务。
I also learned the sheikh is not actually a sheikh.
我还了解到酋长实际上并不是酋长。
We tried to figure out who canceled the show in Hama and didn't get anywhere either.
我们试图找出是谁取消了哈马的演出，但也一无所获。
The next two shows are in Aleppo.
接下来的两场演出在阿勒颇举行。
And even though Malke was worried about Aleppo from the start, the shows there are not canceled.
尽管马尔克从一开始就担心阿勒颇，但那里的演出并没有取消。
They sell out both shows, 1,000 tickets in total.
两场演出门票均已售罄，总共 1,000 张门票。
Malke does the joke about his dad and one about being a Christian in a mosque.
马尔克开了一个关于他父亲的玩笑，还有一个关于在清真寺里成为一名基督徒的玩笑。
Sharief tells the bra joke.
沙里夫讲胸罩笑话。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Ayman Oghanna See?
[阿拉伯语] Ayman Oghanna 看到了吗？
Malke was right.
马尔克是对的。
They kill in Arabic.
他们用阿拉伯语杀人。
Ayman Oghanna is a reporter in Damascus.
艾曼·奥加纳 (Ayman Oghanna) 是大马士革的一名记者。
Well, our program was produced today by Dana Chivvis and edited by Phia Bennin and David Kestenbaum with fact-checking by Hany Hawasly.
好吧，我们今天的节目由 Dana Chivvis 制作，由 Phia Bennin 和 David Kestenbaum 编辑，并由 Hany Hawasly 进行事实核查。
The people who put together today's show include Michael Comite, Suzanne Gaber, Tobin Low, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Ruthie Pettito, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Michael Comite、Suzanne Gaber、Tobin Low、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Ruthie Pettito、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Aref Al Kerz worked with Ayman in Syria.
阿雷夫·阿尔·克兹 (Aref Al Kerz) 在叙利亚与艾曼一起工作。
Jude Taha did translations.
裘德·塔哈负责翻译。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢该计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
When people walk up to him on the street, before they barely get a word out, he lets them know--
当人们在街上走到他面前时，在他们还没开口说话之前，他就让他们知道——
I'm not George Clooney.
我不是乔治·克鲁尼。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。