875: I Hate Mysteries - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #875 | November 21, 2025 875: I Hate Mysteries Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 875 集 | 2025 年 11 月 21 日 875：我讨厌神秘感 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ike Sriskandarajah From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ike Sriskandarajah，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah filling in for Ira Glass.
我是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾 (Ike Sriskandarajah)，接替艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
It's calm, for now, in the second grade classroom in Cold Spring, New York.
目前，纽约冷泉市的二年级教室里很平静。
There are about a dozen kids sitting close around a rug, knees touching.
大约有十几个孩子围坐在地毯周围，膝盖碰在一起。
[BELL DINGS] Ike Sriskandarajah These kids are getting ready for a very particular lesson.
[铃声] Ike Sriskandarajah 这些孩子正在准备上一堂非常特别的课。
It's one that I heard about from my coworker, Nadia.
这是我从同事纳迪亚那里听说的。
I asked my wife, who's a teacher, and she knew about it, too.
我问我的妻子，她是一名老师，她也知道这件事。
And a friend of mine says he still remembers this lesson from when he was in third grade.
我的一个朋友说他仍然记得三年级时的这个教训。
It stuck with him.
它一直困扰着他。
And I wanted to see this rite of passage play out for myself.
我想亲眼见证这一人生的历程。
All right, so the game we're going to play today is called What's in the Box?
好吧，我们今天要玩的游戏叫做“盒子里有什么？”
Have you played this game before?
你以前玩过这个游戏吗？
Yes.
是的。
Ike Sriskandarajah It's a guessing game that's kind of famous here.
Ike Sriskandarajah 这是一种在这里很有名的猜谜游戏。
Ms. Maria, the director of the Manitou School, holds up a white cardboard box about the size of a shoebox.
马尼图学校的校长玛丽亚女士举着一个鞋盒大小的白色纸板箱。
So I have put something in this box, and you can't break it by shaking it.
所以我在这个盒子里放了一些东西，你不能通过摇动它来打破它。
So you can shake it.
所以你可以摇动它。
You can move it.
你可以移动它。
And we're going to pass the box around, and you're going to tell me what you think is in the box, OK?
我们要传递这个盒子，你要告诉我你认为盒子里有什么，好吗？
The kids seem amused.
孩子们看起来很有趣。
They want to try.
他们想尝试一下。
She passes the box to the child on her left.
她把盒子递给左边的孩子。
The kid shakes it a little.
孩子轻轻摇晃了一下。
Hmm.
唔。
Student 3 Uh, maybe marbles and-- marbles and balls.
学生 3 呃，也许弹珠和——弹珠和球。
Marbles and balls.
弹珠和球。
Hmm.
唔。
Ike Sriskandarajah As the box makes it around the 13 students, strategies start to emerge.
Ike Sriskandarajah 当盒子围绕着 13 名学生时，策略开始出现。
One thoughtful little girl in purple glasses and snow boots shakes it real hard.
一位戴着紫色眼镜、穿着雪靴、体贴的小女孩用力摇晃着它。
[RATTLING] That doesn't get her any closer.
[嘎嘎作响]这并没有让她更接近。
The next time around, she takes off her own beaded necklace, shakes that close to her ears.
下一次，她摘下自己的串珠项链，在耳边摇晃。
Then she closes her eyes and shakes the box.
然后她闭上眼睛，摇晃盒子。
Yeah, they're both this-- they're kind of-- OK, definitely not what I thought.
是的，他们都是这样的——他们有点——好吧，绝对不是我想的那样。
The rattles are different.
拨浪鼓不同。
Nobody has gotten it.
没有人得到它。
Feels like it's time to bring in a dedicated professional in the answers-getting business, and the kids allow it.
感觉是时候聘请一位专门的专业人员来从事寻求答案的业务了，孩子们也同意了。
Can I shake the box?
我可以摇动盒子吗？
You guys don't mind?
你们不介意吗？
So I pick up the box.
于是我拿起了盒子。
And they're right.
他们是对的。
It's about the weight of a toy, maybe the size of a fist or two, with smaller things rattling inside that object.
它大约有一个玩具的重量，可能有一个或两个拳头大小，其中有较小的东西在该物体内发出嘎嘎声。
Eureka!
尤里卡！
OK, um, is it, like, a toy car with gumballs in it?
好吧，嗯，是不是像一辆里面有口香糖的玩具车？
That's a really good guess.
这真是一个很好的猜测。
Ike Sriskandarajah But not good enough.
Ike Sriskandarajah 但还不够好。
Three times around the class, and nobody has guessed it.
全班跑了三遍，没人猜到。
At this point, the kids are done.
到这一步，孩子们就完成了。
They're ready to find out.
他们准备好找出答案。
And that's when Ms. Maria does something the kids do not see coming.
就在那时，玛丽亚女士做了一些孩子们没有想到的事情。
All right.
好的。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Well, thank you for playing.
嗯，谢谢你的参与。
Can you show it to us?
你能给我们看一下吗？
Maria I didn't say I was going to tell you what it was.
玛丽亚，我没说我要告诉你那是什么。
What?
什么？
Please!
请！
Maria 'Cause the game is about guessing.
玛丽亚因为这个游戏是关于猜测的。
It's not about knowing.
这与知道无关。
She doesn't tell them.
她没有告诉他们。
She was never going to.
她永远不会去。
Ms. Maria takes the box away.
玛丽亚女士把盒子拿走了。
And the kids are stunned.
孩子们都惊呆了。
No more tries?
不再尝试了吗？
No answer?
没有答案？
That's it?
就是这样？
They're not sure what to make of it.
他们不知道该怎么办。
Now, if hearing this makes you mad, if you're thinking, hey, that is not what school is about-- school's about finding answers to your questions-- Ms. Maria agrees.
现在，如果听到这个让你生气，如果你在想，嘿，这不是学校的目的——学校的目的是找到问题的答案——玛丽亚女士同意。
But she thinks this is important to learn, too.
但她认为学习这一点也很重要。
She wants them to learn how to endure the discomfort of not knowing.
她希望他们学会如何忍受不知道的不适。
She's trying to prepare these kids for life, and that's the case she makes to them.
她正在努力让这些孩子为生活做好准备，这就是她向他们讲述的情况。
And sometimes we all have things that we can't know sometimes because Ms. Maria won't open the box, but more often because it's just impossible to know.
有时我们都有一些我们无法知道的事情，有时是因为玛丽亚女士不肯打开盒子，但更常见的是因为它根本不可能知道。
Like, your parents can't tell you certain things, or you can't get into somebody else's head, or you just can't know the reason for why something happened.
就像，你的父母不能告诉你某些事情，或者你无法进入别人的头脑，或者你只是不知道发生某事的原因。
So learning to live with that discomfort of not knowing is a really important thing.
因此，学会忍受不知道的不适是一件非常重要的事情。
And that's part of what we were practicing here today.
这就是我们今天在这里练习的一部分。
Sure, but the box is right there.
当然可以，但是盒子就在那里。
It's just behind Ms. Maria on the floor.
它就在玛丽亚女士后面的地板上。
The answer is inside, just like all the other answers that powerful forces in our world are withholding from us.
答案就在内心，就像我们世界上的强大力量向我们隐瞒的所有其他答案一样。
These kids and this journalist aren't having it.
这些孩子和这位记者没有这样的经历。
Ms. Maria's worthy lesson is overcome by a much stronger human impulse-- the desire to know what's in the box.
玛丽亚女士的宝贵教训被一种更强烈的人类冲动所克服——渴望知道盒子里有什么。
We want to know what it is!
我们想知道它是什么！
Maria Is it important, what's in the box?
玛丽亚 盒子里有什么，这很重要吗？
Yes!
是的！
Student 7 Otherwise it'll keep us wondering, and I don't like mysteries!
学生 7 否则它会让我们感到好奇，而且我不喜欢神秘！
Because I want-- 'cause I would want to know what it is.
因为我想要——因为我想知道它是什么。
No, we don't want.
不，我们不想。
We need!
我们需要！
Maria Oh, you need to know what it is.
玛丽亚哦，你需要知道它是什么。
We need to know!
我们需要知道！
Student 9 And I get sick when I'm wondering.
学生9 当我想知道的时候我就生病了。
You get sick?
你生病了吗？
Student 10 And I don't like surprises.
学生 10 我不喜欢惊喜。
I'm allergic to wondering.
我对好奇过敏。
I'm allergic to wondering!
我对好奇过敏！
Ms. Maria tries to bring the class back from the brink of anaphylactic shock.
玛丽亚女士试图将全班同学从过敏性休克的边缘拉回来。
They talk about techniques to deal with the discomfort.
他们谈论处理不适的技巧。
They stand up and try to shake their body loose of the tension.
他们站起来，试图摆脱紧张的身体。
OK.
好的。
Ike Sriskandarajah Apparently, this is not an uncommon reaction.
Ike Sriskandarajah 显然，这并不是一种罕见的反应。
Ms. Maria told me years ago, she remembers when an entire class worked together to steal the box.
玛丽亚女士告诉我，几年前，她记得全班同学齐心协力偷了盒子。
The most trustworthy kids told her there was a plumbing emergency in the girls' bathroom, while another classmate snuck into the office Ocean's Eleven style.
最值得信赖的孩子告诉她，女孩的浴室里出现了水管紧急情况，而另一位同学则以十一罗汉的方式溜进了办公室。
The heist was foiled, and then the box was moved to a secure location.
抢劫被挫败，然后盒子被转移到安全地点。
And just earlier today, Ms. Maria was showing some of the teachers the mystery box before class.
就在今天早些时候，玛丽亚女士在课前向一些老师展示了这个神秘盒子。
They made their guesses.
他们做出了自己的猜测。
And then she caught one of them trying to sneak a peek.
然后她发现其中一个人正试图偷看。
The mystery, it can get to you not only if you're seven, but especially if you're seven.
神秘的是，它不仅会影响你七岁的人，而且尤其会影响你七岁的人。
These kids, they see the future, an inscrutable world of infinite, unanswerable questions, and they say, no.
这些孩子，他们看到了未来，一个充满无限、无法回答的问题的神秘世界，但他们说，不。
You're going to leave us wondering for the rest of our lives!
你会让我们余生都感到疑惑！
For the rest of your life?
一辈子？
Student 13 Yes.
学生 13 是的。
(CHANTING) What is it?
（念诵）那是什么？
What is it?
它是什么？
What is it?
它是什么？
What is it?
它是什么？
Ms. Maria is just leading this lesson.
玛丽亚女士正在主持这堂课。
The regular classroom teacher wants to have kids who aren't freaking out and distracted the rest of the day.
普通班老师希望孩子们在一天剩下的时间里不会惊慌失措、分心。
She would love this to end.
她希望这一切能够结束。
So in a shocking turn of events, Ms. Maria caves to the mystery.
因此，在令人震惊的事件转变中，玛丽亚女士屈服于这个谜团。
You're going to feel better when I open the box?
当我打开盒子时你会感觉好一点吗？
Yes.
是的。
Maria OK.
玛丽亚 好的。
Here we go.
开始了。
This is the big reveal.
这是一个重大的揭露。
She opens the box and shows that kids what's inside.
她打开盒子，向孩子们展示里面的东西。
[SHOUTING] Teacher Oh, my gosh.
[喊叫]老师哦，天哪。
I would never have guessed.
我绝对不会猜到。
But you?
但你呢？
You can wait a little longer, right?
你可以再等一会儿，对吗？
Today, we'll hear people who stare at the giant question mark and plunge themselves deep into the unknown.
今天，我们会听到人们盯着这个巨大的问号，然后深深地陷入未知之中。
What lies on the other side?
另一边是什么？
You want to know?
你想知道吗？
Do you really want to know what's in the box?
你真的想知道盒子里有什么吗？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Today's show, I Hate Mysteries.
今天的节目是《我讨厌神秘》。
Act One, The Masta Blasta Digging Up Mount Shasta.
第一幕，Masta Blasta 挖掘沙斯塔山。
That Hole is Deep 'Cause it Hasta Be.
那个洞很深，因为它已经很深了。
A while back, filmmaker Elijah Sullivan decided he was going to get to the bottom of a very strange event that happened in his hometown.
不久前，电影制片人伊利亚·沙利文决定要查清发生在他家乡的一件非常奇怪的事件的真相。
Timber workers going through a national forest found an incredibly deep hole in the ground.
木材工人在穿过国家森林时发现地面上有一个深得令人难以置信的洞。
Nobody could tell who had dug it or why or what they were looking for.
没有人知道是谁挖的，为什么挖，或者他们在寻找什么。
Everyone in town had a theory, and some of those theories were really wild.
Everyone in town had a theory, and some of those theories were really wild.
Elijah could not stop thinking about this hole.
以利亚无法停止思考这个洞。
He'd been working on a documentary about it for about nine years, when someone got in touch with him who claimed to be one of the diggers.
大约九年来，他一直在制作一部有关此事的纪录片，当时有人与他取得联系，自称是挖掘者之一。
Here's Elijah.
这是以利亚。
His name was Brett.
他的名字叫布雷特。
He said that depending on certain circumstances, like the statute of limitations, he was open to talking.
他说，根据某些情况，例如诉讼时效，他愿意谈论。
He'd told pieces of the story before over beers.
他之前在喝啤酒时曾讲述过这个故事的片段。
So I got him a beer, an old one from the fridge.
所以我给他买了一瓶啤酒，是冰箱里的旧啤酒。
Does that still taste good?
那味道还好吗？
It's been in my fridge for three years.
它在我的冰箱里已经放了三年了。
OK.
好的。
Do you feel like launching into the story now?
你现在想开始讲故事吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Elijah Sullivan You want to start?
Elijah Sullivan 你想开始吗？
Yes, sir.
是的，先生。
All right, ready?
好吧，准备好了吗？
Elijah Sullivan Yes.
伊利亚·沙利文 是的。
For the next two hours or so, over a skunky beer, Brett told me his tale, the story I'd been waiting so long to hear, the story of the hole.
在接下来的两个小时左右的时间里，布雷特一边喝着臭啤酒，一边给我讲他的故事，这个我等待已久的故事，那个洞的故事。
It started in 2009, right after the Great Recession.
它始于 2009 年，即大衰退之后。
Brett was just out of high school, living in Northern California and looking for work.
布雷特刚刚高中毕业，住在北加州，正在寻找工作。
As a kid, he said, he had never really fit in and had been kind of heading down a bad path.
他说，小时候，他从来没有真正融入社会，而且一直在走一条糟糕的道路。
But he loved the outdoors.
但他喜欢户外活动。
He'd worked for the California Conservation Corps and later trained to fight forest fires, which he was excited about, but his crew wasn't getting called up.
他曾在加州保护队工作，后来接受了扑灭森林火灾的培训，对此他感到很兴奋，但他的团队并没有被征召入伍。
He spent months looking for other jobs.
他花了几个月的时间寻找其他工作。
Then he came across this listing on a message board.
然后他在留言板上发现了这个列表。
And I looked, and there was a job opening.
我看了看，发现有一个职位空缺。
And it said, building a fence line in Mount Shasta.
上面说，在沙斯塔山修建围栏。
So I called the number, and a guy answers.
所以我拨打了这个号码，一个人接听了。
And he goes, how old are you?
他问，你多大了？
And I tell him.
我告诉他。
I'm like, I'm like 19.
我想，我大概19岁。
He's like, oosh.
他就像，哦。
Do you have your own tools, your own gear, gloves, boots?
Do you have your own tools, your own gear, gloves, boots?
And I'm like, yeah.
我想，是的。
He goes, how fast can you be in Mount Shasta?
他问道，你在沙斯塔山能跑多快？
And I'm like, well, I'm in Redding.
我想，好吧，我在雷丁。
I can make it in, like, 45 minutes, around there.
我可以在大约 45 分钟内到达那里。
And he says, OK, go to this hotel, and a guy is going to meet you in the lobby.
他说，好吧，去这家酒店，一个人会在大堂等你。
He'll give you a room.
他会给你一个房间。
You'll meet up with the work crew in the morning and then go out and build this fence.
早上你会和工作人员会面，然后出去建造这个栅栏。
And I'm like, all right, cool.
我觉得，好吧，很酷。
Sounds good.
听起来不错。
So I put the last $40 I had to my name in my gas tank and drove my truck up to Mount Shasta.
于是我把最后的 40 美元存入油箱，开着卡车前往沙斯塔山。
Mount Shasta is this 14,000-foot, snow-capped stratovolcano near the Oregon border, with a small town nestled at its base.
沙斯塔山是一座海拔 14,000 英尺、白雪皑皑的成层火山，靠近俄勒冈州边境，山脚下坐落着一座小镇。
I've lived there basically my whole life.
我基本上一生都住在那里。
Brett arrived in the evening, pulling into a hotel in Mount Shasta City, right off of the freeway.
布雷特晚上抵达，把车开进沙斯塔山市的一家酒店，就在高速公路旁。
As promised, there was a guy waiting for him.
正如所承诺的，有一个人在等他。
He seemed like the foreman of a crew.
他看起来就像一个船员的领班。
And I think he was-- he had to have been around late 20s maybe, like 27, younger guy, in shape, covered in tattoos, very forward, very disciplined.
我认为他大概在 20 多岁左右，比如 27 岁，更年轻，身材好，全身都是纹身，非常前卫，非常自律。
And he just walked out, and he was wearing basketball shorts and flip-flops.
然后他就走了出去，穿着篮球短裤和人字拖。
And he goes, here's your key.
他走了，这是你的钥匙。
This is your room.
这是你的房间。
Meet the guys in the parking lot at this time in the morning.
早上这个时候在停车场与那些人见面。
And I'm like, OK.
我想，好吧。
Finally, a job.
终于找到工作了。
Not only a job, but it paid well, and it got him out of Redding.
不仅是一份工作，而且报酬丰厚，这让他离开了雷丁。
They even gave him his own hotel room and a per diem.
They even gave him his own hotel room and a per diem.
The next morning, I wake up.
第二天早上，我醒来。
There's a van.
有一辆面包车。
And everyone's got milk jugs of water and stuff like that.
每个人都有牛奶罐、水之类的东西。
And I meet up with them, and they're all bullshitting.
我和他们见面，他们都是胡说八道。
I can tell they've been doing it for a little while, but I didn't know how long.
我可以看出他们已经这样做了一段时间，但我不知道多久了。
And so I get in this van with these complete strangers, and we start driving up towards the mountain.
And so I get in this van with these complete strangers, and we start driving up towards the mountain.
And I remember driving backroads.
我记得在小路上开车。
And then we pull over in the middle of nowhere, and there's a trail at the tree line.
然后我们把车停在一个荒无人烟的地方，林边有一条小路。
And I get out, and we start walking.
我下了车，我们开始步行。
And I'm like, where are we going?
我想，我们要去哪里？
We're building a fence.
我们正在修建栅栏。
So we start walking and walking and walking.
所以我们开始走啊走啊走。
And eventually I'm like, all right, guys, where's the fence?
And eventually I'm like, all right, guys, where's the fence?
And I get laughed at.
我还被嘲笑。
And I'm like, what's going on?
我想，发生了什么事？
Like, come on.
就像，来吧。
And they're like, they told you a fence?
他们就像，他们告诉你有栅栏？
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I can string a fence.
我想，是的，是的，我可以把栅栏串起来。
And they go, that's funny.
然后他们就走了，这很有趣。
Yeah, I got told I was putting a barn up.
是的，有人告诉我我要建一个谷仓。
And another guy said something else, and another guy said something else.
And another guy said something else, and another guy said something else.
And I'm like, OK, now I'm far from home.
我想，好吧，现在我离家很远。
I'm walking what feels like a couple miles down this trail into the wilderness with guys I don't know.
我和一些我不认识的人沿着这条小路走了几英里，走进了荒野。
And they're laughing at me, telling me I've been lied to about why I'm here.
And they're laughing at me, telling me I've been lied to about why I'm here.
And that's when we got up on the hole.
就在那时我们爬上了洞。
The hole.
洞。
The mouth of it was enormous, at least 10 by 12 feet.
它的嘴很大，至少有 10 英尺 x 12 英尺。
And it was deep, like a vertical mineshaft without any wooden beams holding it up, just sheer walls.
And it was deep, like a vertical mineshaft without any wooden beams holding it up, just sheer walls.
Off to one side was a huge pile of dirt.
一侧是一大堆泥土。
Above, there was a steel cable with a pulley strung between trees.
Above, there was a steel cable with a pulley strung between trees.
A few feet down was a boulder the size of a small car sitting on a ledge, and then a ladder leading down into the darkness.
几英尺下有一块小汽车大小的巨石停在壁架上，然后是一个通向黑暗的梯子。
I remember looking in the hole, and everybody's getting ready.
我记得往洞里看，每个人都在准备。
And I'm asking, what's going on?
我问，发生了什么事？
And they're like, we're digging.
他们就像，我们正在挖掘。
And I'm like, for what?
我想，为了什么？
And he's like, well, we don't exactly know.
他说，好吧，我们并不完全知道。
We were told if we found something weird, that we pull it out, and we were going to give it to Joseph.
We were told if we found something weird, that we pull it out, and we were going to give it to Joseph.
Joseph was the guy running everything.
约瑟夫是掌控一切的人。
Brett said he looked like a flatlander, meaning not from the mountains.
布雷特说他看起来像一个平原人，意思是不是来自山上。
And he completely stood out.
他完全脱颖而出。
'Cause all of us were blue collar workers, and we're in boots, jeans, cut-up shirts.
'Cause all of us were blue collar workers, and we're in boots, jeans, cut-up shirts.
And he was in a full suit, had dress shoes, full suit, up to the nines.
And he was in a full suit, had dress shoes, full suit, up to the nines.
And he walked that trail with us every single day, completely dressed.
他每天都穿着衣服和我们一起走那条路。
Somehow, all this weirdness-- the guy in the suit, being lied to, digging for something mysterious-- Brett says he just kind of went with it, maybe because he was surrounded by adults who had accepted it.
不知何故，所有这些奇怪的事情——穿着西装的人被欺骗，挖掘一些神秘的东西——布雷特说他只是接受了它，也许是因为他周围都是接受它的成年人。
He told me he didn't want to be the young guy asking too many questions.
他告诉我他不想成为那个问太多问题的年轻人。
And also, he needed the money.
而且，他需要钱。
Workers disappeared down the hole to work in pairs.
工人们两人一组消失在洞里工作。
They used pickaxes to loosen dirt and fill 5-gallon buckets.
他们用镐松动泥土并装满 5 加仑的桶。
Brett was told to stand at the edge of the hole and to hoist the buckets up.
Brett was told to stand at the edge of the hole and to hoist the buckets up.
A plunge into the hole seemed likely to prove fatal, so Brett tethered himself to a tree, just in case.
A plunge into the hole seemed likely to prove fatal, so Brett tethered himself to a tree, just in case.
The simplicity of the work was satisfying, even validating.
The simplicity of the work was satisfying, even validating.
He'd been on trail crews before, so he knew more about this kind of work than most guys.
他以前曾在越野队工作过，所以他比大多数人更了解这种工作。
For example, before Brett got there, the crew had run into a boulder in the hole and hadn't known what to do.
例如，在布雷特到达那里之前，船员们遇到了洞里的一块巨石，不知道该怎么办。
The main boulder, they had dug around at one point.
主要的巨石，他们曾经挖过。
And I remember asking, why didn't you go through it?
我记得我问过，你为什么不经历它？
And them looking at me kind of weird, and they're like, well, how would we go through it?
他们用一种奇怪的眼神看着我，他们想，好吧，我们该如何度过这一切呢？
We've tried.
我们已经尝试过。
I'm like, well, how did you try?
我想，好吧，你怎么尝试的？
Well, we brought a battery-powered jackhammer up here, and I'm like, how'd you-- in the wheelbarrows and carrying.
好吧，我们把一个电池供电的手提钻带到了这里，我想，你怎么样——用独轮车搬运。
And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You drill into it using leaves and feathers, and you split the rock in multiple sections and it'll break.
我想，不，不，不，不。你用树叶和羽毛钻进它，然后把岩石分成多个部分，它就会破裂。
And once his eyes lit up, it was like, OK, this young kid might know a few things.
And once his eyes lit up, it was like, OK, this young kid might know a few things.
Anytime anyone had an idea to improve their digging operation, Joseph, the guy in the suit running things, would head down the trail back into town for supplies.
每当有人有改进挖掘作业的想法时，穿着西装负责管理事务的约瑟夫就会沿着小路回到镇上寻找补给品。
He had a credit card, which Brett called the magic card.
他有一张信用卡，布雷特称之为魔法卡。
Joseph was like, I've been given this card.
约瑟夫说，我收到了这张卡。
Whatever we need to make this happen, I will swipe it.
无论我们需要什么来实现这一点，我都会刷它。
And he was swiping that card, and infinite money to make this happen.
他刷了那张卡，还有无限的钱来实现这一切。
Brett quickly fell into a routine.
布雷特很快就陷入了常态。
He would ride up the mountain every morning, tie himself to the tree, pull buckets all day, then go back to his hotel.
每天早上他都会骑车上山，把自己绑在树上，提水桶一整天，然后回到旅馆。
The others would go to the bar or to get food, and Brett would just go to the gas station or back to his room.
其他人会去酒吧或买食物，而布雷特只会去加油站或回到他的房间。
Then they would start again in the morning.
然后他们会在早上再次开始。
Week after week, with every bucket he pulled, he watched the hole get deeper.
一周又一周，他每拉一个桶，他就会发现这个洞越来越深。
One day, it was finally Brett's turn to work in the hole.
有一天，终于轮到布雷特在洞里干活了。
They kept that shaft very square.
他们把那个竖井保持得非常方正。
I mean, you could look up at the top of the hole and see the iron veins when the sun would come over the top.
我的意思是，当太阳从洞顶升起时，你可以抬头看看洞的顶部，看到铁矿脉。
It was beautiful.
很漂亮。
When the sun would come over and the light would shine into the hole, you could see iron veins all the way down the sides.
当太阳出来，光线照进洞里时，你可以看到洞边一直有铁矿脉。
Maybe the adventure made it easier not to think about the bigger questions, like what they were doing there.
也许这次冒险让我们更容易不去思考更大的问题，比如他们在那里做什么。
Speaking up might have meant going back to Redding.
发声可能意味着回到雷丁。
At least he was outside.
至少他在外面。
Like, nature's my thing.
就像，自然是我的事。
I'm peaceful.
我很平静。
I'm calm.
我很平静。
I'm happy.
我很高兴。
And maybe that was how I justified part of it.
也许这就是我证明其中一部分合理性的方式。
It was good for me to be up on that mountain every day.
每天都去那座山对我来说是件好事。
And maybe that's what-- it wasn't just being naive.
也许这就是——这不仅仅是天真。
It was overlooking circumstances, because I was out there every day.
这是忽视了环境，因为我每天都在那里。
Going up and down the trail, it was like the Seven Dwarves.
沿着小路走来走去，就像七个小矮人一样。
We were laughing, tools over our shoulders, jugs of water.
我们笑着说，肩上扛着工具、水罐。
They had milk jugs.
他们有牛奶罐。
I had this little Smartwater bottle that I'd carry with me, and laughing.
我随身带着这个小智能水瓶，我笑了。
It was constant.
它是恒定的。
Like, somebody would say something down the line.
就像，有人会在后面说些什么。
You'd be walking and turn your head back, and get back in the conversation, get up there.
你会一边走一边转过头，然后回到谈话中，站起来。
And I started making friends a little bit with people.
我开始和人们交一些朋友。
There were a couple guys in the crew that were cool to me, kind of took me under the wing-- cooler, older guys.
剧组里有几个人对我来说很酷，有点保护我——更酷、年纪更大的人。
And for me, at that time, trying to find my place in the world, and a bunch of older guys being like, this kid's the kid-- and I was like, I'm in, let's do it.
对我来说，当时，我试图在世界上找到自己的位置，一群年长的人说，这孩子就是孩子——我就想，我加入了，让我们开始吧。
That praise, at that time in my life, went a long ways for me.
在我生命中的那个时刻，这种赞美对我来说意义重大。
So that smoothed over the edges quite a bit in the beginning.
所以一开始就平滑了边缘。
But it didn't last forever.
但它并没有永远持续下去。
As the summer wore on, the adventure wore off.
随着夏天的过去，冒险也逐渐结束。
The deeper they went, the harder it was to dig.
越深入，挖掘就越困难。
Sometimes the hole would fill up with bees.
有时这个洞会被蜜蜂填满。
As it got deeper, they had to add things to reach the bottom.
随着它越来越深，他们必须添加东西才能到达底部。
There was a rope to get into the hole, then a chain leading to two ladders tied together.
有一根绳子可以进入洞里，然后有一条链条通向绑在一起的两个梯子。
Brett occasionally would help with the digging, but mostly, he was above ground, pulling the buckets up, which meant he had a bunch of time to be around Joseph.
布雷特偶尔会帮忙挖掘，但大多数时候，他都在地面上，把水桶拉上来，这意味着他有很多时间在约瑟夫身边。
I had a feeling that Joseph was not the one calling the shots.
我有一种感觉，约瑟夫不是那个发号施令的人。
He was the representative for somebody.
他是某人的代表。
And I would ask questions a little bit on who was running this, and very circular conversation-- was not getting a lot of answers.
我会问一些关于谁在运行这个问题的问题，并且进行了非常循环的对话，但没有得到很多答案。
Joseph used to get these phone calls.
约瑟夫曾经接到过这些电话。
We would go a couple days without finding anything, and then he'd get a call on his cell phone, an old flip phone back then.
我们会走了几天，一无所获，然后他的手机接到电话，当时是一部旧的翻盖手机。
And you could just tell his demeanor would change.
你可以看出他的举止会改变。
The phone would ring.
电话铃声响起。
He'd pull the phone out, take a breath, walk like 10 feet out in the woods, and he'd have this phone call.
他会拿出电话，深吸一口气，在树林里走了大约 10 英尺，然后他就会接到这个电话。
And you'd see him in the bushes.
你会在灌木丛中看到他。
He's not on the trail.
他不在路上。
He's standing in bushes, in nice leather flat shoes and in a suit, kind of pacing around in circles a little bit, kicking the ground, and lots of nodding.
他站在灌木丛中，穿着漂亮的皮平底鞋和西装，有点绕圈踱步，踢着地面，不断点头。
And he'd come back and take a deep breath and then, OK, guys, let's keep going.
他会回来深吸一口气，然后，好吧，伙计们，让我们继续前进。
It's like, we haven't stopped.
就好像，我们还没有停下来。
So there was definitely some type of driving force that he was getting from the organization he worked with.
因此，他肯定从他所工作的组织中获得了某种类型的驱动力。
It was almost a "don't come back unless you find it."
这几乎是“除非找到它，否则不要回来”。
And we started getting worried, especially when we knew how important this thing that we didn't know what it was, was to them, that what happens when we find it?
我们开始担心，尤其是当我们知道这个我们不知道它是什么的东西对他们来说有多重要时，当我们找到它时会发生什么？
When the older guys started getting scared, that's when it started coming out in me.
当年长的人开始感到害怕时，我的内心也开始感到害怕。
Because there was moments where Joseph wasn't necessarily totally with us walking up the trail, and that's when we started having these conversations.
因为有时候约瑟夫不一定完全和我们一起走在路上，那就是我们开始进行这些对话的时候。
There had been so much time to think, to imagine where this was going, what they were doing, why they were doing it.
我们有很多时间去思考、想象这件事会发生什么、他们在做什么、为什么要这么做。
Brett wondered if the people funding it had some mining license that was about to expire.
布雷特想知道资助它的人是否拥有即将到期的采矿许可证。
That would explain why they were in a rush, but not all the other weirdness.
这可以解释为什么他们如此匆忙，但不能解释所有其他的奇怪之处。
Like, whatever we're doing is shady, at least.
就像，至少我们所做的一切都是见不得人的。
I don't even know if the word "illegal" was thrown around, but this is shady.
我什至不知道“非法”这个词是否被随意使用，但这很可疑。
And that's when I found out a couple of guys were like, look, I'm going to bring a gun up with me.
就在那时我发现有几个人说，看，我要随身携带一把枪。
I remember one of them was like, dude, if we find it, what if they kick us in the hole?
我记得其中一个人说，伙计，如果我们找到了它，他们会把我们踢进洞里怎么办？
I'm standing next to that hole all day long.
我整天站在那个洞旁边。
There's already guys in it.
里面已经有人了。
There's a gigantic boulder on the edge.
边缘有一块巨大的石头。
I think it was a chain was holding it in place, maybe.
我认为也许是一条链条将其固定在适当的位置。
All of us were in the hole, around the hole.
我们所有人都在洞里，在洞周围。
It would have been very easy to push us in.
把我们推进去是很容易的。
Brett started to think about bailing.
布雷特开始考虑保释。
I asked Brett why he hadn't before.
我问布雷特为什么他以前没有这样做。
Part of it was that he just wanted to know what they were digging for, the answer to the mystery.
部分原因是他只是想知道他们在挖掘什么，寻找谜团的答案。
Now he wasn't so sure he wanted to know.
现在他不太确定自己想知道。
Anytime they found anything that might be something, it was carefully inspected by a guy named Cokey.
每当他们发现任何可能有什么东西的东西时，都会由一个名叫科基的人仔细检查。
Brett said Cokey was an old Navy vet, more of a blue collar guy like the other workers, and reminded Brett of his grandfather.
布雷特说，科基是一名老海军退伍军人，更像是其他工人一样的蓝领工人，这让布雷特想起了他的祖父。
Everything they found in the hole went to Cokey.
他们在洞里找到的所有东西都归给了科基。
And at some point, they started finding these rocks, kind of sizable, maybe twice as big as a basketball.
在某个时候，他们开始发现这些岩石，相当大，可能是篮球的两倍大。
And they all looked similar.
他们看起来都很相似。
Cokey would crack them open.
科基会把它们打开。
They weren't allowed to look.
他们不被允许看。
And then towards the end, it was like we were finding more of it.
然后到最后，我们好像发现了更多。
And then, [SIGHS] I can't remember if it was mostly one day we pulled a bunch out, but I just remember pulling buckets and hearing dudes yell and then trying to get them out, handing them off.
然后，[叹气]我不记得是否主要是有一天我们拉了一堆出来，但我只记得拉水桶，听到伙计们大喊大叫，然后试图把它们拿出来，把它们交给他们。
They get pulled over to that little platform built up by the dirt we had pulled out.
他们被拉到我们挖出的泥土堆成的小平台上。
And Cokey had turned his back to us.
科基背对着我们。
We kind of looked away.
我们有点看向别处。
He split a couple of them.
他把其中的几个分开了。
Brett says, for the first time, Joseph and Cokey's faces lit up.
布雷特说，约瑟夫和科基第一次脸上露出了笑容。
And I think-- I think they sent us home.
我想——我想他们把我们送回家了。
And we never called it early.
我们从来没有提前打电话过。
What just happened?
刚刚发生了什么？
Brett I thought I was coming back the next day.
布雷特 我以为我第二天就会回来。
I just was like, if we found what they're looking for, why are we leaving?
我只是想，如果我们找到了他们要找的东西，我们为什么要离开？
So that's why I went back to my hotel room, laying in bed, really like, what's going on?
所以这就是为什么我回到酒店房间，躺在床上，真的很想，发生了什么事？
Have I got myself into something?
我是不是把自己卷进了什么事情里了？
And that's when I got the phone call in the middle of the night.
就在那时，我在半夜接到了电话。
It was the crew lead.
这是机组人员的领导。
He said he would give Brett $200 to drive up the mountain with him and gather all the rocks they had found in the hole, just the two of them right now.
他说他会给布雷特 200 美元，让他和他一起开车上山，收集他们在洞里发现的所有岩石，现在只有他们两个人。
Brett agreed.
布雷特同意了。
He told me it was stupid of him to go, but he thought, let's get this done, and then the job will be over with.
他告诉我他去是愚蠢的，但他想，让我们完成这件事，然后工作就结束了。
We loaded up my truck and went up the mountain in the middle of the night.
我们把车装上车，半夜就上山了。
It would have been around midnight.
那时大约是午夜时分。
I parked my truck at the bottom.
我把卡车停在底部。
We busted out one Rubbermaid trash can.
我们捣毁了一个乐柏美垃圾桶。
And he looked at me, and he was like, this is what we're going to do.
他看着我，然后说，这就是我们要做的。
We're going to put this trash can in between us.
我们要把这个垃圾桶放在我们之间。
We're going to take our belts off, and we're going to loop it through the handles.
我们要把皮带解下来，然后把它穿过手柄。
And each one of us is going to put our belt on our shoulder, and we'll take as many down as we can.
我们每个人都会把自己的腰带扛在肩上，我们会尽可能地击倒更多人。
We hiked up there, and that's what we did.
我们徒步到了那里，这就是我们所做的。
We went to the pile of rocks that were ranging from here to about here, and we'd put as many in there as we could.
我们去了从这里到这里附近的一堆岩石，我们尽可能多地放在那里。
And we'd do the shoulder test.
我们会做肩部测试。
Pick it up if we can get it off the ground.
如果我们能把它从地上拿起来，就把它捡起来。
And if we could, it was like, all right, buddy, let's go.
如果可以的话，就像，好吧，伙计，我们走吧。
And we went down the trail.
我们沿着小路走下去。
Loaded my truck, came back up, did it again, over and over and over again, aching.
装满我的卡车，回来，再做一次，一遍又一遍，一遍又一遍，疼痛。
And we kept a pace.
我们保持着步伐。
And we made lap after lap, I mean, just bleeding sweat, coming down that mountain.
我们一圈又一圈，我的意思是，流着汗，从山上下来。
And by the time we were done, my back of my truck was full.
当我们完成时，我的卡车后部已经满了。
I had an old '89 Chevy.
我有一辆 89 年的旧雪佛兰。
And I flattened my leafs and I blew out my brakes on the way down.
我压平了叶子，在下降的过程中我踩坏了刹车。
I barely made it down that mountain without losing control at the bottom.
我勉强下了那座山，但没有在山脚失去控制。
The two of them drove the rocks to a rental storage place.
两人把石头运到了一个出租的仓库。
Joseph was there waiting.
约瑟夫在那里等着。
So was a U-Haul truck.
U-Haul 卡车也是如此。
Then it was really solidified that this is done.
然后就真的坚定了这件事的完成。
Because when they cracked the back, and I saw they had wooden-framed the inside for one little cradle for each rock-- and they were ready to go.
因为当他们打开后背时，我看到他们在里面用木框固定了每块岩石的一个小摇篮——他们已经准备好了。
I don't remember the drivers getting out.
我不记得司机下车了。
I don't know who was driving them.
我不知道谁在开车。
And we picked those rocks up.
我们把那些石头捡了起来。
We put them in there.
我们把它们放在那里。
And Joseph shook my hand, and he was happy.
约瑟夫握着我的手，他很高兴。
He was happy.
他很高兴。
The stress was off.
压力消失了。
Whatever stress was on him, he had accomplished it.
无论他承受多大的压力，他都完成了。
And then I had heard-- I either overheard or he told me that they're going to Florida.
然后我听说——要么是我无意中听到的，要么是他告诉我他们要去佛罗里达。
And they left.
他们就离开了。
Brett didn't realize until an hour or two later that they hadn't paid him the $200.
直到一两个小时后，布雷特才意识到他们还没有付给他 200 美元。
Later that summer, timber workers stumbled across the hole while marking trees.
那年夏天晚些时候，木材工人在给树木做标记时偶然发现了这个洞。
It was in a national forest, and it's illegal to dig without a permit.
它位于国家森林内，未经许可进行挖掘是违法的。
The hole looked to be about 60 feet deep.
这个洞看起来大约有60英尺深。
I spoke to one ranger who said it was the damnedest thing he had ever seen in his Forest Service career.
我采访了一位护林员，他说这是他在林务局职业生涯中见过的最该死的事情。
The Mount Shasta Herald ran an article in October-- "US Forest Service investigating hole on Mount Shasta." The article had a photo of the hole.
《沙斯塔山先驱报》十月份发表了一篇文章——“美国林务局正在调查沙斯塔山上的洞”。这篇文章有一张这个洞的照片。
At the bottom was Brett's bottle of Smartwater.
底部是布雷特的一瓶Smartwater。
Gawkers kept gathering to look at the hole, so the Forest Service filled it back in.
围观的人不断聚集起来查看这个洞，所以林务局又把它填回去了。
By the time I saw the spot a few years later, the trail had faded, but the trees still had scars from the cable.
几年后，当我看到这个地方时，小路已经消失了，但树木上仍然有电缆留下的伤痕。
And there was a 5-gallon bucket lying around.
周围还有一个5加仑的水桶。
Every time I visited, it was in a different spot.
每次我访问时，它都在不同的地方。
And one day, it was gone.
有一天，它消失了。
At the time, all we had was wild speculation.
当时，我们所拥有的只是疯狂的猜测。
There were three plausible theories.
存在三种看似合理的理论。
The first was gold.
第一个是黄金。
I heard rumors about an underground river of gold, maybe a treasure map purchased in a bar.
我听说有一条地下黄金河的传言，也许是在酒吧里买的一张藏宝图。
But I talked to the geology instructor at the local community college who pointed out that Mount Shasta was actually a volcano, and volcanoes don't have gold in them, so that theory was out.
但我和当地社区大学的地质学老师交谈过，他指出沙斯塔山实际上是一座火山，而火山中不含金，所以这个理论不成立。
The second was Native American artifacts.
第二个是美洲原住民文物。
Unfortunately, this is incredibly common in the US.
不幸的是，这种情况在美国非常普遍。
I asked some state police officers and experts on investigating looters, but nobody had heard of looters digging 60 feet straight down.
我向一些州警察和专家询问了有关调查抢劫者的情况，但没有人听说过抢劫者直接向下挖掘 60 英尺。
So the looting theory was out, too.
所以抢劫理论也就不成立了。
That leaves the third theory.
这就剩下第三种理论了。
It's something we locals discuss the most.
这是我们当地人讨论最多的事情。
But Brett isn't from here.
但布雷特不是这里人。
He didn't hear about it until midway through the dig, when he went home for the weekend.
直到挖掘工作进行到一半，他回家过周末时才听说这件事。
He was drinking beer with some friends on their porch and telling them about the job he was doing on Mount Shasta.
他和一些朋友在门廊上喝啤酒，向他们讲述他在沙斯塔山所做的工作。
And I started getting into the details of it, and everybody gets kind of quieter and quieter.
我开始深入了解它的细节，每个人都变得越来越安静。
And I hear this noise from above me because it was a multi-story.
我听到上面传来这种噪音，因为那是多层楼。
I think it was a two-story apartment complex.
我认为那是一栋两层的公寓大楼。
And I hear, oh, and then footsteps moving.
我听到，哦，然后有脚步声在移动。
And then I hear it running through one of the apartment complexes, coming down the stairs.
然后我听到它穿过一栋公寓大楼，从楼梯上下来。
And it was this really spun-out woman that came out holding a book.
正是这个真正脱胎换骨的女人拿着一本书走了出来。
So she goes, sorry, I've been listening to everything you've been saying, but this is what's going on.
所以她说，抱歉，我一直在听你所说的一切，但这就是正在发生的事情。
And she hands me this book about Mount Shasta and starts going through the pages and finds this chapter on Saint Germain.
她递给我这本关于沙斯塔山的书，然后开始翻阅，找到了关于圣日耳曼的这一章。
And she goes, do you know what this is?
她说，你知道这是什么吗？
And I'm like, no. And she's like, OK.
我想，不。她说，好吧。
And I started reading it.
我开始读它。
And that's when it clicked.
就在那时，它点击了。
The Count of Saint Germain was a real historical figure from the 1700s.
圣日耳曼伯爵是 1700 年代真实的历史人物。
Some people believed he was immortal.
有些人相信他是不朽的。
An American mining engineer named Guy Ballard claimed he met Saint Germain in 1930, here, on the mountain.
一位名叫盖伊·巴拉德 (Guy Ballard) 的美国采矿工程师声称，他于 1930 年在这里的山上遇见了圣日耳曼。
Ballard said he was hiking, and Saint Germain appeared multiple times, once offering him a crystal cup filled with a clear, sparkling liquid.
巴拉德说，他正在徒步旅行，圣日耳曼多次出现，有一次给了他一个水晶杯，里面装满了透明、闪闪发光的液体。
This encounter inspired Ballard and his wife, Edna, to found a New Age religion called The I AM Activity.
这次遭遇激发了巴拉德和他的妻子埃德娜创立了一种新时代宗教，名为“我是活动”。
That's two words, "I AM," all caps.
那是两个词，“我是”，全部大写。
Ballard died in 1939, but The I AM Activity still has members all over the world.
巴拉德于 1939 年去世，但“我是活动”的成员仍然遍布世界各地。
Around the same time Guy Ballard says he met Saint Germain, a book was published called Lemuria, Lost Continent of the Pacific.
大约在盖伊·巴拉德（Guy Ballard）说他遇到了圣日耳曼（Saint Germain）的同时，出版了一本名为《利穆里亚（Lemuria），太平洋失落的大陆》的书。
It had a chapter that claimed there was a hidden city under Mount Shasta, inhabited by some of the last remaining members of a sunken continent.
其中有一章声称沙斯塔山下有一座隐藏的城市，居住着一些沉没大陆仅存的成员。
People have been looking for the entrance of the city ever since.
从那时起，人们就一直在寻找这座城市的入口。
The book is not related to Saint Germain, but added to the myth of the mountain.
这本书与圣日耳曼无关，但添加了这座山的神话。
Not everyone comes to Mount Shasta for Lemuria or Saint Germain.
并不是每个人来到沙斯塔山都是为了利莫里亚或圣日耳曼。
Some are just looking for purpose or community.
有些只是寻找目的或社区。
My parents were seekers.
我的父母都是寻求者。
They moved us to Mount Shasta from Massachusetts when I was six.
我六岁时，他们把我们从马萨诸塞州搬到了沙斯塔山。
So to me, this made total sense, that the hole had something to do with all these stories.
所以对我来说，这是完全有道理的，这个洞与所有这些故事都有关系。
Eventually, I tracked down and spoke to three other people who had helped dig the hole.
最终，我找到了另外三个帮助挖洞的人，并与他们交谈。
One of them said they'd been paid by a believer in Saint Germain and described what they were looking for as gold plutonium.
其中一人说，他们是由圣日耳曼的一名信徒付钱的，并描述了他们正在寻找的东西是金钚。
He said something about it being used to power Lemurian cities.
他谈到了它被用来为利莫里亚城市供电。
The other two diggers mentioned uranium.
另外两名挖掘者提到了铀。
None of it made sense, but it always pointed back to the stories about the mountain.
这些都没有道理，但总是指向有关这座山的故事。
I did try to contact The I AM Activity a couple of times, but the person who answered the phone told me that my message probably wouldn't be returned.
我确实尝试联系“我是活动”几次，但接电话的人告诉我，我的消息可能不会被回复。
It wasn't.
事实并非如此。
After that last scary night on the mountain, Brett drove straight home to his mom's in Redding.
在山上度过最后一个可怕的夜晚后，布雷特直接开车回到雷丁的妈妈家。
I just couldn't believe all this had happened.
我简直不敢相信这一切都发生了。
And then, plus, I hadn't slept.
然后，再说了，我还没睡。
And I got back.
我回来了。
I hadn't been telling my mom what I'd been doing.
我没有告诉妈妈我做了什么。
I told her I was working.
我告诉她我在工作。
And I remember I called my dad.
我记得我给我爸爸打过电话。
My mom is a sweetheart, and she's always been the one that's let me run a little crazy, but has been like my stone.
我的妈妈是一位可爱的人，她一直是那个让我有点疯狂的人，但她就像我的石头一样。
And my dad is a lot like me.
我的父亲很像我。
And I started telling him what I had been doing, and he got upset.
我开始告诉他我一直在做什么，他很沮丧。
And I remember that was the final thing where it was like-- when he was like, you cannot do stuff like that.
我记得那是最后一件事——当他说，你不能做那样的事情。
You have to realize what you just did, and I'm very happy you're safe.
你必须意识到你刚刚做了什么，我很高兴你安全了。
But that could have gone very bad.
但这可能会变得非常糟糕。
And you can no longer go through life being naive like that.
你不能再这样天真地度过一生了。
And I was happy.
我很高兴。
I remember I picked up my skateboard, and I met with my friends and spent a week off-gassing, just letting all that go.
我记得我拿起滑板，和朋友们见面，花了一周的时间放气，把这一切都抛在脑后。
And then once you're out of that mindset, you're not around those people, then you start realizing, what were we really doing?
一旦你摆脱了这种心态，你身边就没有那些人了，你就会开始意识到，我们到底在做什么？
What did I let someone talk me into?
我让别人劝我做什么了？
Am I liable for anything?
我需要承担任何责任吗？
And that's why it was really chilling when I got that phone call.
这就是为什么当我接到那个电话时我真的很不寒而栗。
I can't remember how long it was, so I'm trying to think.
我不记得过了多久，所以我努力思考。
It was after the summer.
那是夏天过后的事了。
And maybe it was around the fall.
也许是在秋天左右。
And I had a call came through that I didn't recognize the number and answered it, and I recognized the voice instantly.
我接到一个电话，我不认识号码，接听后，我立刻就认出了那个声音。
That stoic, man-of-few-words voice telling me, we're going back.
那个坚忍、沉默寡言的声音告诉我，我们要回去了。
And I remember being like, good luck, because I'm not going.
我记得我当时想，祝你好运，因为我不会去。
After that, Brett joined the military and rarely comes back to the area.
此后，布雷特参军，很少回到该地区。
Like many before him, he had come down from the mountain with a wild story.
和他之前的许多人一样，他带着一个疯狂的故事从山上下来。
He still thinks about it.
他还在想。
There are times when I'm out elk hunting or something.
有时我会出去猎麋鹿之类的。
I'm breaking brush off trail, and I'll see-- I'll come up over a hill, and you'll see a false summit or a gully in the ground or something like that.
我正在清除小道上的灌木丛，然后我会看到——我会翻过一座小山，你会看到一个虚假的山顶或地面上的沟壑或类似的东西。
And you start seeing-- my brain will put shit together.
你开始看到——我的大脑会把屎拼凑起来。
When the landscape's just right and the sun hits, I'm on the right slope, and, yeah, things in the environment and the landscapes are piecing together, and I can picture it again.
当风景恰到好处，阳光照射时，我就在正确的斜坡上，是的，环境中的事物和风景正在拼凑在一起，我可以再次想象它。
That'll be with me forever.
那将永远伴随着我。
If you met Joseph again, do you have anything you'd want to say to him?
如果你再次见到约瑟夫，你有什么话想对他说吗？
Man, I'd ask why.
伙计，我想问为什么。
I'd take everything I just said, and I'm like, am I right?
我会接受我刚才所说的一切，然后我想，我是对的吗？
Is this what you were doing?
这就是你在做的事吗？
Is this the motivation?
这是动机吗？
Was it this church that is all the things, these little details that I put together from things you've said, things I've heard, things I saw?
是不是这座教堂就是我从你所说的、我所听到的、我所看到的事情中拼凑起来的所有事物、这些小细节？
What weren't you telling me?
你没告诉我什么？
And then the next thing is, what did we find?
接下来的事情是，我们发现了什么？
Because I saw it.
因为我看到了。
It didn't seem like something that was worth doing what we did.
这似乎不值得我们做。
Am I wrong?
我错了吗？
I wondered about those things, too.
我也想知道这些事情。
A strange final footnote to this story is that the Forest Service did find the person they think is responsible for the hole.
这个故事的最后一个奇怪的脚注是，林务局确实找到了他们认为对这个洞负责的人。
Their local Forest Service law enforcement officer, Carmen Kinch, told me she did a bunch of sleuthing and figured out what hotel the workers had been staying in, and from the hotel, the name of the person who had paid for the rooms.
当地林务局执法官员卡门·金奇 (Carmen Kinch) 告诉我，她进行了一系列调查，查出了工人们住在哪家酒店，并从酒店查出了支付房间费用的人的姓名。
She said the person said they had been looking for gold and paid a fine, but couldn't give me the person's name.
她说那个人说他们一直在寻找黄金并支付了罚款，但无法告诉我这个人的名字。
And without a name, I haven't been able to find any court records, though I tried for years.
尽管我尝试了很多年，但由于没有名字，我一直无法找到任何法庭记录。
These days, I'm not looking so hard anymore.
这些天，我不再那么努力了。
I've had to accept that you just don't always get to the bottom of everything.
我不得不承认，你并不总是能把所有事情都弄清楚。
Sometimes, when you open the box, inside, there's just another box.
有时，当你打开盒子时，里面只有另一个盒子。
Elijah Sullivan.
伊利亚·沙利文。
His documentary is called The Hole Story.
他的纪录片叫做《The Hole Story》。
It's showing at film festivals, and he's looking for a distributor.
该片正在电影节上放映，他正在寻找发行商。
Special thanks to Benjamin Bombard, who told us about the documentary.
特别感谢本杰明·邦巴德，他向我们介绍了这部纪录片。
When we were putting together today's show, we heard from lots of people who have mysteries in their lives that they can't get out of their head.
当我们整理今天的节目时，我们听到很多生活中充满谜团的人说他们无法摆脱他们的头脑。
And one of them came from Lauren Peterson, who read a story with a mystery in it that stuck with her.
其中一篇来自劳伦·彼得森（Lauren Peterson），她读了一个故事，里面有一个谜团，让她印象深刻。
So for years, I have been plagued by a New York Times article by Katie Weaver-- whose writing I love-- where she went to a glitter factory and toured the glitter factory.
因此，多年来，我一直被《纽约时报》凯蒂·韦弗（Katie Weaver）的一篇文章所困扰——我喜欢她的文章——她去了一家闪光工厂，并参观了闪光工厂。
And while Katie was on this tour, the glitter factory spokesperson said, you'll never guess which industry buys the most glitter, and then wouldn't tell her.
当凯蒂参加这次巡演时，闪光工厂的发言人说，你永远猜不到哪个行业购买的闪光最多，然后也不会告诉她。
No matter how many times the reporter asked, the spokesperson said, we can never tell you.
发言人表示，无论记者问多少次，我们都无法告诉你。
And for years, I have been desperate to know, who is this secret consumer of glitter?
多年来，我一直迫切想知道，这个闪闪发光的秘密消费者是谁？
What could it possibly be?
它可能是什么？
You need to know.
你需要知道。
Lauren Peterson You need to know.
劳伦·彼得森 你需要知道。
And I think the piece came out around Christmas, I want to say.
我想说，我认为这篇文章是在圣诞节前后出版的。
So this was also the number one topic of conversation among my family and extended family for that entire Christmas.
所以这也是整个圣诞节我的家人和大家庭谈论的首要话题。
Everything we thought of, it either didn't seem like it would be big enough, or there was no reason that they wouldn't want us to know.
我们想到的一切，要么看起来不够大，要么他们没有理由不想让我们知道。
Like, if it was cosmetics, why couldn't they say that on the record?
就像，如果是化妆品，为什么他们不能记录下来？
So it can't be that.
所以不可能是这样的。
But is it, like, why is your toothpaste so sparkly?
但是，为什么你的牙膏这么闪亮？
Could it be-- is it the fluoride or is it glitter from the glitter factory?
难道是——是氟化物还是来自金葱粉工厂的金葱粉？
Her wife thought it could be the US military.
她的妻子认为这可能是美军。
She'd heard they'd dropped metallic material from planes sometimes to scramble radar.
她听说他们有时会从飞机上投下金属材料来扰乱雷达。
My mom is one of eight.
我妈妈是八个人之一。
So that's a big family on that side.
所以那边是一个大家庭。
We definitely talked about it.
我们确实讨论过它。
Plus, some friends.
另外，还有一些朋友。
I have a group text where, every once in a while, one of us will put forward a new theory to this day.
我有一个小组文本，每隔一段时间，我们中的一个人就会提出一个新的理论，直到今天。
So I'd say we're looking at 20 people who I'm regularly bringing this up to.
所以我想说，我们正在研究 20 个人，我经常向他们提出这个问题。
I once brought it up to someone who I was sitting next to on an airplane.
有一次，我在飞机上向坐在我旁边的一个人提起过这个问题。
I occasionally will just go back and look at the Reddit forums where people are trying to figure out the answer.
我偶尔会回去看看 Reddit 论坛，那里的人们试图找出答案。
What could it possibly be?
它可能是什么？
And what if I told you we have the answer?
如果我告诉你我们有答案呢？
My jaw dropped.
我的下巴都掉下来了。
[LAUGHS] How did you find out?
[笑]你是怎么发现的？
Would you just open your phone and type in the word "glitter mystery"?
您会打开手机并输入“闪光之谜”这个词吗？
Yes.
是的。
Yes, I will-- and not for the first time, I might add.
是的，我会的——我可能会补充说，这并不是第一次。
[LAUGHS] OK, when you google glitter mystery, the very first thing that comes up after the AI is, the mystery of the largest glitter purchaser has been solved.
[笑]好吧，当你用谷歌搜索闪光之谜时，人工智能之后出现的第一件事就是，最大的闪光购买者之谜已经被解决了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
The post is a link to a 2019 podcast that broke the news of the mystery buyer.
该帖子是 2019 年播客的链接，该播客爆料了神秘买家的消息。
There's a long Reddit discussion about the answer.
Reddit 上有一个关于答案的长时间讨论。
But somehow, Lauren had never seen it.
但不知何故，劳伦从未见过它。
So I told her.
所以我告诉她。
Boats?
船？
Ike Sriskandarajah Yeah, boats.
Ike Sriskandarajah 是的，船。
They use it for their paint.
他们用它来作油漆。
Sparkly?
闪闪发光？
I mean, I guess they are.
我的意思是，我猜他们是。
Why don't they want us to know?
为什么他们不想让我们知道？
I don't-- Lauren Peterson Why does it have to be a secret?
我不——劳伦·彼得森 为什么这必须是秘密？
They're not military-grade boats.
它们不是军用级船只。
They're just regular boats.
它们只是普通的船。
May I ask you, are you happy that you know?
请问你知道后你高兴吗？
No. Such a disappointing answer.
不，这是一个令人失望的答案。
And I kind of wish I still thought that the US military was glitter bombing other nations.
我有点希望我仍然认为美国军队正在对其他国家进行闪光轰炸。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Everything that glitters is not boat, but a lot of it is.
所有闪闪发光的东西都不是船，但很多都是。
Lauren was not the only person disappointed in the answer.
劳伦并不是唯一对这个答案感到失望的人。
On Reddit, there were even people who worked in the marine paint industry who knew they used lots of glitter, but they were also hoping the answer was something else.
在 Reddit 上，甚至有一些在海洋涂料行业工作的人知道他们使用了大量的闪光粉，但他们也希望答案是别的。
Mysteries are like that.
谜团就是这样。
Once you have the answer, the sparkle disappears.
一旦你得到答案，闪光就会消失。
The biggest glitter buyer was originally uncovered by the podcast Endless Thread.
最大的闪光买家最初是由播客 Endless Thread 发现的。
We reached out to Glitter X, the company profiled in the New York Times story.
我们联系了《纽约时报》报道中介绍的 Glitter X 公司。
They declined to confirm if their biggest buyer is boats.
他们拒绝证实最大的买家是否是船只。
They are still committed to the mystery.
他们仍然致力于这个谜团。
Coming up, did we just become best friends, or am I being kidnapped?
接下来，我们是刚刚成为最好的朋友，还是我被绑架了？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾 (Ike Sriskandarajah)，代理艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
Today, I Hate Mysteries-- stories of people grappling with the unknown that's right in front of them.
今天，我讨厌神秘故事——人们与眼前的未知事物作斗争的故事。
Act Two, Who Are the People in Your Neighborhood?
第二幕，你的邻居是谁？
The mystery that I want solved most urgently right now is, what happens when the full force of the federal government arrives on my block?
我现在最迫切想要解开的谜团是，当联邦政府的全部力量到达我的街区时会发生什么？
I happen to live in a neighborhood in New York City that is half foreign-born.
我碰巧住在纽约市的一个社区，那里有一半是外国出生的。
Given the national tour of Border Patrol, ICE, and sometimes the National Guard, it seems like they could come here.
鉴于边境巡逻队、ICE、有时还有国民警卫队在全国巡回演出，他们似乎可以来这里。
They just closed their operation late last week in Chicago, Operation Midway Blitz.
他们上周晚些时候刚刚结束了在芝加哥的行动“中途岛闪电战行动”。
According to DHS, they arrested 5,000 people in the Chicago area.
据国土安全部称，他们在芝加哥地区逮捕了 5,000 人。
Immigration arrests didn't stop after that.
此后移民逮捕并没有停止。
They're just not at the rate they've been at in the past two months.
他们只是没有达到过去两个月的水平。
We can get some sense from videos on the news and social media about what happened in Chicago-- people dragged out of cars, chased into daycares, neighborhoods teargassed.
我们可以从新闻和社交媒体上关于芝加哥发生的事情的视频中了解一些信息——人们被从车里拖出来，被赶进托儿所，社区被催泪瓦斯袭击。
But what is it really like to live in a neighborhood like that day to day?
但是，每天生活在这样的社区到底是什么样的呢？
So we called one of our former colleagues, Michelle Navarro.
于是我们给我们的一位前同事米歇尔·纳瓦罗（Michelle Navarro）打了电话。
She grew up on the southwest side of Chicago, a Mexican part of town.
她在芝加哥西南边长大，那是墨西哥城的一部分。
And she still lives there.
她仍然住在那里。
Here's Michelle.
这是米歇尔。
She changed some of the names in this story.
她更改了这个故事中的一些名字。
I've been getting this question a lot.
我经常被问到这个问题。
Friends from out of state have been hitting me up, asking me, are you good?
州外的朋友们都来找我，问我，你好吗？
They want to know what it's like here.
他们想知道这里是什么样子。
They want to know if the videos and the things they've read are how it's actually playing out.
他们想知道视频和他们读过的内容是否真实地播放。
I haven't known what to say.
我不知道该说什么。
I had to go back through my phone to know what just happened, because it's been hard to remember.
我必须通过手机才能知道刚刚发生了什么，因为很难记住。
I've been scrolling back through my text messages, through the half-sentences I wrote in my Notes app, the videos I saved on my phone.
我一直在滚动浏览我的短信、我在笔记应用程序中写的半句话、我保存在手机上的视频。
I need them to remember my own life because I don't even know.
我需要他们记住我自己的生活，因为我什至不知道。
They launched Operation Midway Blitz in early September.
他们于九月初发起了中途岛闪电战行动。
That is when they started to bounce between neighborhoods-- Back of the Yards, Brighton Park, Gage Park, Little Village, Pilsen, Little Village, and Back of the Yards again.
就在那时，他们开始在各个街区之间穿梭——后院、布莱顿公园、盖奇公园、小村庄、比尔森、小村庄，然后再次回到后院。
In little over a week, more than 500 people were detained.
一周多一点的时间里，就有 500 多人被拘留。
It was a free-for-all, a purge.
这是一场混战，一场清洗。
There's no other way to describe it.
没有其他方法可以描述它。
And when they take people, they vanish.
当他们带走人时，他们就消失了。
They're out as a family at Millennium Park on a Sunday.
周日他们全家一起去千禧公园。
They're waiting for the bus, taking the trash out, selling tamales.
他们在等公共汽车，倒垃圾，卖玉米粉蒸肉。
Then men in ski masks and mismatched tactical gear appear.
然后，戴着滑雪面具、穿着不匹配的战术装备的男子出现了。
And then they're gone.
然后他们就走了。
My phone is a catalog, an archive of how we tried to keep living our lives.
我的手机是一本目录，是我们如何努力维持生活的档案。
This is what I found.
这就是我发现的。
Scrolling back to the early days to when they started grabbing people from the street, there's a text confirming my nail appointment at Jessica's Nail Spa, Wednesday, September 17, 2025, 5:30 PM.
回溯到早期，当他们开始从街上抓人时，有一条短信确认了我在杰西卡美甲水疗中心的美甲预约，时间为 2025 年 9 月 17 日星期三下午 5:30。
See you soon, Michelle Navarro.
很快再见，米歇尔·纳瓦罗。
I remember that day.
我记得那天。
That weekend, I was hosting a party for my roommate's birthday.
那个周末，我正在为室友举办生日聚会。
I'm used to being welcomed to the nail salon with laughter and loud Spanish love ballads.
我已经习惯了在欢声笑语和响亮的西班牙情歌中受到欢迎来到美甲沙龙。
I'm a regular.
我是常客。
They usually tease me.
他们经常取笑我。
Let me guess-- red, square tip?
让我猜猜——红色、方形尖端？
But this time, when I approached the salon, and I pulled on the door to find it locked, I watched their heads lift in unison.
但这一次，当我走近沙龙，拉开门发现门锁着时，我看到他们齐声抬起头。
I saw relief when they realized it was just me.
当他们意识到只有我一个人时，我松了口气。
I know all the women who work here.
我认识所有在这里工作的女性。
We usually ask each other about work, about boyfriends, about family.
我们通常会问对方关于工作、男朋友、家庭的事情。
This time, we didn't.
这次，我们没有。
We waited, as we always do now, to see who was going to bring it up first.
我们像现在一样等待，看看谁会先提出这个问题。
It was them.
是他们。
They told me they think about it all day.
他们告诉我他们整天都在想这件事。
They heard ICE was spotted in the Marshalls parking lot that morning, about a block over, where they often leave their cars.
他们听说那天早上在马歇尔停车场发现了 ICE，大约一个街区之外，他们经常把车停在那里。
It's where they must walk to after work.
这是他们下班后必须步行去的地方。
I asked my nail tech, Sara, about her daughter and her son in hopes of something lighter.
我向我的美甲师萨拉询问了她女儿和儿子的情况，希望能得到一些轻松的信息。
She begins to tell me a story about her son's elementary school.
她开始给我讲她儿子小学的故事。
She says that during class, kids could hear the screams of someone being taken right outside of the school building.
她说，在课堂上，孩子们可以听到有人被带到教学楼外的尖叫声。
The school administration later wrote to those parents that someone not connected to the school was detained outside by federal agents.
学校管理部门后来写信给这些家长，称与学校无关的一个人被联邦特工拘留在外面。
They reassured parents that students would be safe in class, and that parents would be safe at drop-off and pick-up.
他们向家长保证，学生在课堂上是安全的，家长在接送孩子时也是安全的。
But the next day, out of about 30 kids in her son's class, only three showed up.
但第二天，她儿子班上大约 30 个孩子中，只有 3 个出现了。
She stops filing my nails.
她不再给我锉指甲了。
She looks up at me.
她抬头看着我。
What do you think I should do?
你认为我应该做什么？
Should I send them to school?
我应该送他们去学校吗？
For that moment, I imagined she's my mother, that I am her eight-year-old son, seeing masked, militarized men taking her away.
那一刻，我想象她是我的母亲，我是她八岁的儿子，看到蒙面的军事人员将她带走。
I tell her, if you're scared, don't take them.
我告诉她，如果你害怕，就不要带它们。
The following morning, while I'm getting ready for work, I wonder if she's dressing her children for school or if she plans to take my unqualified advice.
第二天早上，当我准备上班时，我想知道她是否正在为孩子们穿衣服去学校，或者她是否打算接受我无条件的建议。
It's all I can think of for the rest of the day.
这就是我今天剩下的时间里所能想到的一切。
The most surprising thing about masked men running around in your neighborhood and terrorizing your people is realizing that the world doesn't stop.
蒙面男子在你的社区里跑来跑去并恐吓你的人民，最令人惊讶的事情是意识到世界并没有停止运转。
You still have to clock in for your job.
你仍然必须上班打卡。
You still need groceries.
你仍然需要杂货。
You still have to make small talk.
你还是得闲聊。
Another text I found in my phone, with a guy from Hinge, October 22.
我在手机中发现了另一条短信，是来自 Hinge 的一个人，10 月 22 日。
He wants to get coffee in Pilsen this weekend, but we're having trouble finding a time that works.
他想这个周末去比尔森喝咖啡，但我们很难找到合适的时间。
He works at a factory nearby.
他在附近的一家工厂工作。
He texted me that ICE agents are outside his job, and he's covering for coworkers without papers.
他给我发短信说 ICE 特工不在他的工作范围内，他在没有证件的情况下替同事顶薪。
He keeps having to change the time.
他总是不得不改变时间。
I tell him, no worries.
我告诉他，不用担心。
He texts, they're just grabbing people and waiting for people to leave work, so now we're telling the night shift to stay home.
他发短信说，他们只是抓人，等人下班，所以现在我们告诉夜班人员待在家里。
I hate it here.
我讨厌这里。
We never met up that weekend.
那个周末我们从未见面。
Everyone is talking about rules, but there doesn't seem to be any.
每个人都在谈论规则，但似乎没有规则。
Our mayor, organizers, and legal advocates have said that ICE and Border Patrol can't do a number of things.
我们的市长、组织者和法律倡导者都表示，ICE 和边境巡逻队无能为力。
They can't go on private property.
他们不能进入私人财产。
They can't go on city property.
他们不能购买城市财产。
They can't throw tear gas in our neighborhoods, right outside of people's homes.
他们不能在我们的社区、人们家外面扔催泪瓦斯。
But they continue to do so.
但他们仍在继续这样做。
Four days after the start of this operation, they shoot and kill a man in Franklin Park.
这次行动开始四天后，他们在富兰克林公园开枪打死了一名男子。
Not long after, just two miles from where I live, they shoot a woman five times.
不久之后，在距离我住处仅两英里的地方，他们向一名妇女开了五枪。
The Department of Homeland Security keeps talking about people who broke the law, who are here illegally, who committed crimes, but they target all of us, anyone who is Brown, anyone who speaks Spanish or just lives here.
国土安全部一直在谈论违法者、非法居留者、犯罪者，但他们的目标是我们所有人，任何布朗人、任何说西班牙语或只是住在这里的人。
If you get picked up, you could spend a day or a week in detention.
如果你被抓起来，你可能会被拘留一天或一周。
So we can't let people outside by themselves anymore.
所以我们不能再让人们自己出去了。
Even those of us with papers, with legal status, are on high alert.
即使我们这些有证件、有合法身份的人也保持高度警惕。
They roll up on us in parking lots, on people's front yards, outside of schools, and ask, are you from here?
他们在停车场、人们的前院、学校外面向我们袭来，问我们，你是这里人吗？
Are you from here?
你是这里人吗？
Other moments from my phone-- on October 4, there's a video from my friend, Bianca.
我手机上的其他时刻——10 月 4 日，有一段来自我朋友比安卡的视频。
We've all been friends since sixth grade.
我们从六年级开始就是朋友了。
Bianca's a realtor now.
比安卡现在是一名房地产经纪人。
She's in her car, in between showings.
她正在车里，在放映间隙。
She says, guys, this is so sad.
她说，伙计们，这太悲伤了。
Families who I sold houses to last year are calling me now, asking me to put those same houses back in the market.
去年我卖掉房子的家庭现在打电话给我，要求我将这些房子放回市场。
They're heading back to Mexico.
他们要回墨西哥了。
A home in the United States was a dream they finally realized.
在美国安家是他们终于实现的梦想。
They were just crying of happiness not that long ago, she says.
她说，不久前他们还因为幸福而哭泣。
And now they have to let it go.
现在他们必须放手了。
October 25, an invite to Gabby's annual Halloween party.
10 月 25 日，受邀参加嘉比一年一度的万圣节派对。
She called it A Halloween to Remember.
她称之为“难忘的万圣节”。
After a few hours into the party, I look around and ask where Yazmin is.
聚会几个小时后，我环顾四周，询问亚兹敏在哪里。
Gabby looks at me.
加比看着我。
Yazmin can't come out right now.
亚兹敏现在不能出来。
Oh, shit, I forgot.
哦，该死，我忘了。
She's undocumented.
她没有证件。
I felt so stupid.
我感觉自己好傻。
I felt so careless.
我感觉自己太不小心了。
Before the end of the party, Gabby makes sure each guest leaves with a goodie bag, which contains two pieces of chocolate, Skittles, a whistle you can wear around your neck, and a small home-printed booklet instructing you on what to do when you spot ICE.
派对结束前，嘉比确保每位客人离开时都会收到一个礼包，里面有两块巧克力、彩虹糖、一个可以挂在脖子上的哨子，以及一本家庭打印的小册子，指导您发现 ICE 时该怎么做。
Form a crowd.
形成人群。
Stay loud, the cover says.
封面上写着，保持大声。
Code 1, ICE nearby.
代码 1，ICE 附近。
Blow in a broken rhythm.
以破碎的节奏吹奏。
Pre-pre-pre!
预预预！
This alerts the community that ICE agents are in the area.
这会提醒社区 ICE 特工在该地区。
Code Red, blow in a continuous, steady rhythm when ICE is detaining someone.
红色代码，当 ICE 拘留某人时，以连续、稳定的节奏吹响。
The last page reads, protect each other, always.
最后一页读到，互相保护，永远。
Happy Halloween, I guess.
我想，万圣节快乐。
I look back at my call log.
我回头看了看我的通话记录。
There's a list of calls in quick succession one day at 1:26 PM to my mom, and then to her neighbors.
有一天下午 1 点 26 分，有一系列快速连续的电话打给我妈妈，然后打给她的邻居。
I remember exactly what these calls are.
我清楚地记得这些电话是什么。
I'd seen a post that ICE was two blocks away from my parents' house.
我看到一个帖子说 ICE 离我父母家只有两个街区。
I called my mom.
我打电话给我妈妈。
I know, she said.
我知道，她说。
There was non-stop honking about 20 minutes ago.
大约20分钟前，喇叭声一直不停。
That's a thing now-- people honking to alert everyone that ICE is right here.
现在就是这样——人们按喇叭提醒大家 ICE 就在这里。
And cars follow behind them until they can't.
汽车会跟在他们后面，直到他们跟不上为止。
Where's Dad?
爸爸在哪儿？
I asked.
我问。
He's working.
他正在工作。
My dad calls me later on his way home from work.
后来我爸爸下班回家时给我打电话。
I tell him our neighbors are safe.
我告诉他我们的邻居很安全。
Then I say, Dad, you can't go to the swap meet anymore.
然后我说，爸爸，你不能再去参加交换会了。
The owner had said he wanted to keep people safe, but he didn't.
店主曾说过他想保证人们的安全，但他没有。
More than 20 federal agents took 15 people.
20多名联邦探员带走了15人。
That's my dad's spot.
那是我爸爸的位置。
It's where he goes for random parts and hardware.
这是他寻找随机零件和硬件的地方。
But I told him no more Swap-o-rama.
但我不再告诉他“Swap-o-rama”。
He agreed he'd find a different place to do his shopping.
他同意他会找一个不同的地方去购物。
October 20, ICE got to my dad anyway.
10 月 20 日，ICE 无论如何还是找到了我爸爸。
There's a text from my sister at 10:46 AM.
上午 10 点 46 分，我姐姐发来一条短信。
ICE jumped out on Luis.
ICE 对路易斯进行了攻击。
I don't know who he's with.
我不知道他和谁在一起。
Luis is my sister's husband, and he works landscaping with my dad.
路易斯是我姐姐的丈夫，他和我爸爸一起从事园林绿化工作。
I wrote, in all caps, WHERE?
我全部大写写在哪里？
RIGHT NOW?
现在？
My mom messages me, La migra le llego a tu papa.
我妈妈给我发消息，La migra le llego a tu papa。
My dad was shoveling someone's front lawn.
我爸爸正在铲某人家前的草坪。
When he looked up from his shovel, ICE was right there, the agents just a few feet away.
当他从铲子上抬起头时，ICE 就在那里，特工们就在几英尺远的地方。
Four cars stood in the middle of the street.
四辆车停在街道中央。
One of the agents gripped his coworker's shoulder.
一名特工抓住了他同事的肩膀。
Do you all have papers?
你们都有纸吗？
They all said they did.
他们都说他们做到了。
They think that because no one tried to run, the agents let them continue working.
他们认为，因为没有人试图逃跑，特工们就让他们继续工作。
So they did.
他们就这么做了。
Going back through these messages now, I forgot how mad I got at my sister.
现在回想这些信息，我忘记了我对姐姐有多生气。
I was alarmed.
我很震惊。
My sister seemed to move on quickly when she learned Luis and my dad were fine, which I found annoying.
当我姐姐得知路易斯和我父亲都很好时，她似乎很快就离开了，我觉得这很烦人。
I kept asking her, where are they now?
我不断地问她，他们现在在哪里？
Are they together?
他们在一起了吗？
Had they called the Rapid Response hotline to report ICE presence in the neighborhood, taken down license plate numbers or makes and models of the cars, information that could help other people at risk in the area?
他们是否拨打快速反应热线报告附近有 ICE 存在，记下车牌号码或汽车的品牌和型号，以及可以帮助该地区其他面临危险的人的信息？
My sister texts, I am telling you what I know.
我姐姐发短信，我告诉你我所知道的。
I am working, and they are working.
我在工作，他们也在工作。
I don't know how much communication you think I'm getting.
我不知道你认为我得到了多少沟通。
My reply-- bro, this is a stop-work matter.
我的回答是——兄弟，这是停工的事情。
Five weeks into the operation, I saw a cheap flight out of Chicago to New York.
手术五周后，我看到了从芝加哥飞往纽约的廉价航班。
I decided to take it, get away for a few days.
我决定接受它，离开几天。
Part of me felt guilty for leaving.
我的一部分对离开感到内疚。
Part of me felt like I should take the chance before it got worse.
我的一部分感觉我应该在情况变得更糟之前抓住机会。
I spent the weekend with my friends in their living rooms, going on walks to dinner.
我和朋友们在客厅里度过了周末，散步去吃晚饭。
Nothing about their lives had changed.
他们的生活没有任何改变。
It was unsettling.
这令人不安。
I told them how my body tenses up now when I hear a long car horn, how I look into car windows for masked agents, and that when we get a community alert reporting ICE on our phones, we think of every person we know who lives or works around there, how we text and call immediately, or show up, worried that the other person won't be there.
我告诉他们，当我听到长长的汽车喇叭声时，我的身体会如何紧张，我如何查看车窗是否有蒙面特工，当我们在手机上收到报告 ICE 的社区警报时，我们会想到在附近居住或工作的每个认识的人，我们如何立即发短信和打电话，或者出现，担心对方不会在那里。
I told them that I wasn't a special case, that this is what everyone I know feels.
我告诉他们我不是特例，这是我认识的每个人的感受。
Outside of Chicago, it was easier to answer the question, what it's like there?
在芝加哥之外，更容易回答这个问题：那里是什么样子？
From outside, I could see how much we've adapted, how different everything is now, how extreme things have gotten.
从外面，我可以看到我们已经适应了多少，现在一切有多么不同，事情已经变得多么极端。
It's what I could see going back through my phone that this thing has bled into every single corner of our daily lives, our commutes, our jobs, our families, our dates and parties, and every single conversation.
我通过手机可以看到，这个东西已经渗透到我们日常生活的每一个角落，我们的通勤，我们的工作，我们的家庭，我们的约会和聚会，以及每一次谈话。
One last moment I found going through my phone, a text from my relative.
最后一刻，我在手机里发现了一条来自亲戚的短信。
She wanted me to know that ICE was at the corner by the pizzeria, where our cousin works.
她想让我知道 ICE 就在比萨饼店的拐角处，我们表弟在那里工作。
My cousin is the last one in my family who hasn't gotten his papers.
我的表弟是我们家里最后一个没有拿到证件的人。
I jumped off the train and took one going the other way.
我跳下火车，换了一辆去另一条路。
I ran down the street.
我跑到街上。
If ICE was here, then I had just missed them.
如果 ICE 在这里的话，我就错过了他们。
My cousin had recently told his mom-- my aunt-- that if they ever came in and took him, it'd be all right with him.
我的表弟最近告诉他的妈妈——我的姨妈——如果他们进来带走他，他就没事了。
I'm not running, he'd said.
我不会逃跑，他说。
Don't say that, she responded.
别这么说，她回答道。
She was upset that he had brought it up.
她对他提起这件事感到不安。
My mother is upset by this, too.
我妈妈也为此感到不安。
She told me the story over the phone.
她在电话里告诉了我这个故事。
Let him have his peace, I told her.
让他平静吧，我告诉她。
Perhaps he was just trying to prepare his mother and himself for something he couldn't control.
也许他只是想让他的母亲和他自己做好应对一些他无法控制的事情的准备。
Let him have that.
让他拥有那个。
I stood outside the pizzeria that day, catching my breath.
那天我站在比萨店外面，喘着粗气。
I peered through the glass until I caught a glimpse of him in the back of the kitchen.
我透过玻璃往外看，直到在厨房后面瞥见他。
I waved and pretended I was only walking by.
我挥手示意，假装我只是路过。
For once, I avoided the conversation completely, for my sake and for his.
这一次，为了我自己，也为了他，我完全避免了谈话。
And I think we both felt relieved.
我想我们都感到如释重负。
That story was from Michelle Navarro.
这个故事来自米歇尔·纳瓦罗。
She's a writer and a producer on City Cast Chicago, a daily news podcast.
她是每日新闻播客“City Cast Chicago”的作家和制片人。
It was edited by Chana Joffe-Walt.
由查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 编辑。
We just have a few minutes left in the show.
演出只剩下几分钟了。
We'll leave you with one last story.
我们将为您讲最后一个故事。
Act Three, Come, Mr. Cab Driver, Won't You Turn That Music Up?
第三幕，来吧，出租车司机先生，你不把音乐调大一点吗？
Our last story today comes from comedian Mohanad Elshieky, who found himself trapped in an uncomfortable mystery in the backseat of a cab.
我们今天的最后一个故事来自喜剧演员莫哈纳德·埃尔希基（Mohanad Elshieky），他发现自己被困在出租车后座的一个令人不安的谜团中。
Most recently, I decided I needed to work more on my small talk.
最近，我决定需要在闲聊上多下功夫。
So I was like, you know what?
所以我想，你知道吗？
If I do take a Lyft or an Uber next time, I'm going to talk to that driver.
如果我下次乘坐 Lyft 或 Uber，我会和那个司机谈谈。
I'm going to find a topic, and I'll run with it.
我要找到一个话题，然后就开始讨论。
And again, I took this man's car, and two minutes in, he starts playing music.
我再一次坐了这个人的车，两分钟后，他开始播放音乐。
And every song he played was something I really liked.
他演奏的每一首歌都是我非常喜欢的。
So I was like, I got to let him know.
所以我想，我必须让他知道。
So after each song, I would say, dude, this is a great song.
所以每首歌结束后，我都会说，伙计，这是一首很棒的歌。
Or I'd say, oh, wow, look at that.
或者我会说，哦，哇，看看那个。
He's doing it again.
他又这么做了。
[LAUGHTER] And I did that for a while, like, 20 minutes of me doing that.
[笑声] 我这样做了一段时间，比如 20 分钟。
And that man did not respond to me once.
而那个男人一次也没有回应我。
[LAUGHTER] Well, look, I'm a man on a mission.
[笑声] 嗯，听着，我是一个肩负使命的人。
I'll get to him.
我会去找他。
But then, I swear to God, the music stops, and the thing he starts playing next was my standup comedy on the speakers.
但随后，我向上帝发誓，音乐停止了，他接下来开始在扬声器中播放我的单口喜剧。
And I've never been more terrified in my life.
我一生中从未如此害怕过。
[LAUGHTER] Because I was like, I didn't even check if this was my car or not.
[笑声] 因为我想，我什至没有检查这是否是我的车。
I left the building, and I was like, this seems completely fine, and I got in.
我离开了大楼，我想，这看起来完全没问题，然后我就进去了。
So I had to check in from the back, and I was like, hey, man.
所以我必须从后面办理登机手续，我当时就想，嘿，伙计。
Hi.
你好。
Do you know who this is?
你知道这是谁吗？
And he was like, what?
他说，什么？
I was like, the guy doing standup on the speakers, do you know who that is?
我当时想，那个在扬声器上表演单口相声的人，你知道那是谁吗？
And he was like, no. And I was like, well, it's me.
他说，不。我当时想，好吧，就是我。
[LAUGHTER] And he replied, well, that's good for you.
[笑声]他回答说，好吧，这对你有好处。
I was like, oh, you're kidnapping me and gaslighting me?
我当时想，哦，你绑架我并用煤气灯点燃我？
This is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
[LAUGHTER] And then I really thought something bad was about to happen.
[笑声] 然后我真的以为有什么不好的事情即将发生。
But then he drove me to the location I gave him, and I did say that out loud.
但后来他开车送我去了我给他的地点，我确实大声说了这句话。
I was like, oh, this is the location I gave you.
我当时想，哦，这就是我给你的位置。
And he was like, yeah, that's how this usually works.
他说，是的，这就是通常的运作方式。
[LAUGHTER] And I was like, dude, not to be rude or anything, but are you fucking with me?
[笑声]我当时想，伙计，不要无礼什么的，但是你在玩弄我吗？
What is this?
这是什么？
What is going on tonight?
今晚发生什么事了？
And he was like, what?
他说，什么？
And I was like, are there cameras around?
我就想，周围有摄像头吗？
Is this going to be on YouTube or something?
这会出现在 YouTube 之类的地方吗？
What is going on?
到底是怎么回事？
And he was like, sir, I just want you to leave my car.
他说，先生，我只想让你离开我的车。
And I was like, oh, I'm the crazy person here.
我当时想，哦，我是这里的疯子。
Oh, I see how it is.
哦，我明白是怎么回事了。
OK, I'm the weirdo.
好吧，我就是那个怪人。
Just so you know, whatever this is, you got me.
只是想让你知道，无论这是什么，你都抓住了我。
This will haunt me for the rest of my life.
这将困扰我一生。
I will never forget you.
我永远不会忘记你。
Is that what you want?
这就是你想要的吗？
And then I started leaving the car.
然后我开始下车。
I took my backpack, and then I pulled my phone out of the charger.
我拿起背包，然后从充电器中取出手机。
Which, as some of you know, doubles as an AUX cord sometimes.
正如你们中的一些人所知，有时它还兼作 AUX 线。
So it's been my phone connected to the speakers this whole time.
所以一直以来都是我的手机连接到扬声器。
And now there's a guy in New York City who thinks I'm an absolute psychopath.
现在纽约市有一个人认为我绝对是个精神病患者。
[LAUGHTER] Because what happened was, I got into this man's car, this stranger's car, and I played my own music for 20 minutes.
[笑声] 因为发生的事情是，我上了这个人的车，这个陌生人的车，然后我播放了 20 分钟我自己的音乐。
And then after each song that I played, I said, what a great song, man.
然后，在我演奏完每一首歌之后，我都会说，这首歌真是太棒了，伙计。
[LAUGHTER] Oh, look at that.
[笑声]哦，看看那个。
He's doing it again.
他又这么做了。
[LAUGHTER] And then I played my own standup.
[笑声] 然后我表演了我自己的单口喜剧。
And then I said, hey, man, excuse me, do you recognize the voice?
然后我说，嘿，伙计，对不起，你认得那个声音吗？
Yeah, it's your boy right here.
是的，这里就是你的孩子。
It is me.
是我。
You're getting a good deal here.
你在这里得到了很好的交易。
I'll tell you that.
我会告诉你的。
People usually pay to hear this voice.
人们通常付费才能听到这个声音。
You're getting this for free.
您可以免费获得这个。
Are there cameras around?
周围有摄像头吗？
[LAUGHTER] Is this going to be on YouTube, where it belongs?
[笑声] 这会出现在它所属的 YouTube 上吗？
I surely hope so.
我当然希望如此。
I have not talked to people since.
从那以后我就没有和人说过话。
I think this is it for me.
我想这就是适合我的。
You guys have been an amazing crowd.
你们是一群了不起的人。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Have a great night.
祝你度过一个愉快的夜晚。
[APPLAUSE, CHEERING] Ike Sriskandarajah Mohanad Elshieky is currently on tour.
[掌声、欢呼] Ike Sriskandarajah Mohanad Elshieky 目前正在进行巡演。
To see where he's performing next, check out his website, mohanadelshieky.com.
要了解他接下来的表演，请访问他的网站 mohanadelshieky.com。
Well, this episode was produced by me.
嗯，这一集是我制作的。
The other people who helped put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Suzanne Gaber, Sophie Gill, Tobin Low, Miki Meek, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Marisa Robertson-Textor, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Lilly Sullivan, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
其他帮助组织今天节目的人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Suzanne Gaber、Sophie Gill、Tobin Low、Miki Meek、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Marisa Robertson-Textor、Anthony Roman、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Lilly Sullivan、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor, David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑 David Kestenbaum。
And our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks to Mark Fleming, Maria Román-Garcia, Belle Woods, Jen Tonks, Maria Stein-Marrison, Erin Mahollitz, and the second graders at Manitou School.
特别感谢 Mark Fleming、Maria Román-Garcia、Belle Woods、Jen Tonks、Maria Stein-Marrison、Erin Maholitz 以及 Manitou 学校的二年级学生。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
Please consider supporting the show as a This American Life Partner.
请考虑作为“This American Life”合作伙伴支持该节目。
You'll get bonus episodes-- I did one-- ad-free listening, and more.
你会得到奖励剧集——我做了一集——无广告收听，等等。
To join, go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
如需加入，请访问 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
That link is also in the show notes.
该链接也在节目注释中。
Our episode, The Hand That Rocks the Gavel, was just selected by Apple as one of the Best Podcast Episodes of 2025.
我们的剧集《摇动木槌的手》刚刚被 Apple 选为 2025 年最佳播客剧集之一。
That episode is all about immigration judges who almost never speak to the press.
这一集讲述的是几乎从不接受媒体采访的移民法官。
If you missed it, check it out.
如果您错过了，请检查一下。
It was released September 21.
它于 9 月 21 日发布。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Ira is out this week.
艾拉本周缺席。
But ever since I told him about the mystery box, he's been leaving me voice messages.
但自从我告诉他神秘盒子的事后，他就一直给我留言。
(CHANTING) What is it?
（念诵）那是什么？
What is it?
它是什么？
What is it?
它是什么？
And to reward you all for enduring the mystery, we have a special guest to announce the contents of the box.
为了奖励大家忍受这个谜团，我们有一位特邀嘉宾来宣布盒子里的东西。
Mr. Torey Malatia, will you tell the people what's in the box?
Torey Malatia 先生，您能告诉人们盒子里有什么吗？
What's in the box?
盒子里有什么？
Your mama.
你的妈妈。
Nah.
不。
It's a bottle of Advil.
这是一瓶止痛药。
I'm Ike Sriskandarajah.
我是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾。
Ira Glass will be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉·格拉斯将于下周回归，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。