872: Winners - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #872 | October 31, 2025 872: Winners Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 872 集 | 2025 年 10 月 31 日 872：获奖者注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass OK.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 好的。
So here's something that I learned about myself this last week.
这是我上周对自己的了解。
Today's show, we're doing a show about winners.
今天的节目，我们正在做一个关于获胜者的节目。
And as we talked about this idea here at the radio show, I learned that there is something I apparently say all the time here at our office as we make the show.
当我们在广播节目中谈论这个想法时，我了解到，当我们制作节目时，我显然一直在我们的办公室里说一些话。
And I really had no idea I said this at all until a few months ago when somebody on staff pointed this out.
我真的不知道我说过这样的话，直到几个月前，当工作人员有人指出这一点时。
And back when that happened, I thought, sure, yes, I guess I have said that every now and then over the years.
当那件事发生时，我想，当然，是的，我想多年来我时不时地说过这样的话。
But this week, I learned I had that wrong.
但本周，我发现我错了。
I am joined in the studio now by my coworker, Diane Wu.
我的同事 Diane Wu 现在加入了我的工作室。
Hey there, Diane.
嘿，黛安。
Hi, Ira.
嗨，艾拉。
It's something that I have noticed, but I didn't talk about it with my coworkers until this week.
我已经注意到了这一点，但直到本周我才与同事谈论它。
And when I went to them and taped those conversations, everybody knew what I was talking about.
当我去找他们并录制这些对话时，每个人都知道我在说什么。
Whenever you feel like you're trying to work on a story and you're in your low point, he kind of gives you this look.
每当你觉得自己正在努力写一个故事并且处于低谷时，他就会给你这样的表情。
And he's like, no, you're a winner.
他说，不，你是赢家。
You know how, in Harry Potter, they're just like, you're a wizard, Harry?
你知道吗，在《哈利·波特》中，他们就像，你是一个巫师，哈利？
That's what he kind of does with winners.
这就是他对胜利者所做的事情。
The thing Ira always says is, let's win.
艾拉总是说，让我们赢吧。
We're winners.
我们是赢家。
I think when I first started working here, as an intern, basically-- I can't remember what it was, but I had told him I don't think I can do that.
我想当我第一次在这里工作时，作为一名实习生，基本上 - 我不记得那是什么，但我告诉他我不认为我能做到这一点。
And he's like, that's a loser mentality.
他说，这是一种失败者心态。
We're winners.
我们是赢家。
And then I remember thinking, oh, no, I am a winner.
然后我记得我想，哦，不，我是赢家。
I like to win things.
我喜欢赢得东西。
He spoke to something.
他在说话。
That worked on me.
这对我有用。
I can't believe anyone actually feels that way.
我不敢相信真的有人有这样的感觉。
That's so great-- for them.
这对他们来说太棒了。
It's like a moment when you look around a table and you can see on everybody's faces that they're a little bit-- that they're tired and they're not feeling like things are going to work out.
这就像当你环顾桌子周围的那一刻，你可以在每个人的脸上看到他们有点累，他们感觉事情不会有进展。
And then Ira will come in with, we got this.
然后艾拉会进来，我们得到了这个。
This is going to be great.
这会很棒。
This is going to be so easy.
这将会非常容易。
This is going to just be so easy.
这将是非常容易的。
We know what we have to do.
我们知道我们必须做什么。
We're winners.
我们是赢家。
We just have to do it.
我们只需要这样做。
Let's win.
让我们赢吧。
Let's win.
让我们赢吧。
I have to say, that is so weird to hear everybody talking about that.
我不得不说，听到每个人都在谈论这个真是太奇怪了。
Because I think I just was saying this without thinking.
因为我想我只是没有经过思考就说出了这句话。
I think that's why I didn't realize I was saying it and how often I was saying it.
我想这就是为什么我没有意识到我在说这句话以及我说这句话的频率。
It's not this deeply calculated "I must motivate the troops" thing.
并不是这种深谋远虑的“我必须激励部队”的事情。
It's just that some part of me, just chemically, just feels like, come on.
只是我的某些部分，只是化学上的感觉，来吧。
Let's go.
我们走吧。
We're winners.
我们是赢家。
Let's go.
我们走吧。
Ira Glass Thank you.
艾拉·格拉斯 谢谢。
And some people find this really motivating when you do it.
当你这样做时，有些人会发现这真的很激励人。
But others, when you're saying this stuff about winners, it just does nothing for them.
但其他人，当你谈论胜利者时，这对他们没有任何帮助。
They just don't get it.
他们就是不明白。
Wait, really?
等等，真的吗？
Diane Wu Yeah.
吴黛安 是的。
They're like, why does he keep doing this?
他们想，为什么他一直这样做？
What is he talking about?
他在说什么？
It's terrible.
太可怕了。
It doesn't do anything but make me angry.
它除了让我生气之外没有任何作用。
This, of course, is our coworker, Nadia.
当然，这是我们的同事纳迪亚。
It made me eyeroll.
这让我翻白眼。
And it made me completely be like, I don't want to do this.
这让我完全觉得，我不想这样做。
The winner thing also doesn't work for our coworker, Lilly.
获胜者的说法对我们的同事莉莉来说也不起作用。
The first times I would hear it, it was like a tell to me.
当我第一次听到它时，这对我来说就像是一个告诉。
I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm not going to fit here at all.
我想，哦，天哪，我根本不适合这里。
This guy thinks he's a winner.
这家伙认为他是胜利者。
All these people that I don't know very well yet are also apparently winners.
所有这些我不太了解的人显然也是赢家。
Apparently, they hire for winners.
显然，他们雇佣的是成功者。
And that's certainly not me.
那当然不是我。
Because I think of winners-- people who think of themselves as winners, I'm like, you guys are just a bunch of tryhard narcs.
因为我想到的是胜利者——那些认为自己是胜利者的人，我想，你们只是一群努力的缉毒犯。
And I'm not about winning.
我不是为了赢。
I'm very much-- I identify as a loser.
我非常——我认为自己是一个失败者。
I am kind of a loser.
我是一个失败者。
I'm a quitter.
我是一个放弃者。
[LAUGHS] Can I just stop the tape?
[笑]我可以停止录像吗？
That is such a funny thing to hear somebody say out loud.
听到有人大声说出来真是一件有趣的事情。
I used to play sports kind of competitively, which I think would surprise everyone who knows me.
我曾经参加过有竞争力的体育运动，我认为这会让每个认识我的人感到惊讶。
I don't seem like someone who would play sports.
我看起来不像是一个会参加体育运动的人。
OK.
好的。
Well, my team in high school won state in California, my soccer team, which was a huge deal.
嗯，我高中时的足球队赢得了加利福尼亚州的冠军，这是一件大事。
It's a huge state.
这是一个巨大的国家。
And then I played soccer in college too.
然后我也在大学踢足球。
And then one time when I was-- I guess it was the first season of soccer in college.
然后有一次我——我想那是大学足球的第一个赛季。
And we had to do a mental-- some kind of a test to test how we were mentally, some assessment.
我们必须进行心理测试，某种测试来测试我们的心理状况，进行一些评估。
This was like some kind of personality test to see how mentally tough and competitive you are.
这就像某种性格测试，看看你的心理坚强程度和竞争力如何。
And my coach pulled me aside afterward.
后来我的教练把我拉到一边。
And he was just like, just so you know, everyone on the team other than you was, like, upper 80s and 90s.
他就像，你知道，团队中除了你之外的每个人都是 80 后和 90 后。
He's like, and your score was like, 34.
他就像，而你的分数就像，34。
Your brain is not wired like the rest of the people in these teams.
你的大脑与这些团队中的其他人不同。
You're wired like a grumpy, pessimistic loser.
你就像一个脾气暴躁、悲观的失败者。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
And he's like, I don't mind.
他说，我不介意。
He's like, but we got a lot of progress to make here.
他说，但我们这里还有很多进步要做。
But it told me something about myself at that time.
但它告诉了我一些关于当时我自己的事情。
I'm like, I am like that.
我就是这样，我就是这样。
Why am I here?
我为什么在这里？
This is why I don't relate to these people.
这就是为什么我与这些人没有关系。
Yes.
是的。
Diane Wu And so for years here at the show, she really didn't get it, the winners thing.
吴黛安（Diane Wu）多年来一直在展会上，她真的不明白，获胜者的事情。
But then at some point a couple years in, when we were working on that story-- I think she said it was when we were working on that story about Albertville.
但几年后的某个时候，当我们在研究那个故事时——我想她说那是在我们在研究关于阿尔贝维尔的故事时。
You remember that one?
你还记得那个吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Of course.
当然。
We were traveling together and spending a lot of hours together, you and me and her and Miki.
我们一起旅行，一起度过了很多时间，你和我，她和米基。
Yeah.
是的。
Super, super long days, right?
超级超级长的日子，对吧？
At some point when we were working on that story, she felt it shift.
当我们正在研究这个故事时，她感觉到事情发生了变化。
Like, she was so worn down.
就像，她是如此疲惫不堪。
And one day, you said it.
有一天，你这么说了。
And it just sounded different to her.
这对她来说听起来不一样。
And now I kind of like it because I feel like I understand now that the idea is more just to help you gear up for what's ahead of you.
现在我有点喜欢它，因为我觉得我现在明白了，这个想法更多的是帮助你为即将到来的事情做好准备。
Like, at one point, Ira was just like, it's like, we have to get up a mountain, and there are mules who are going to bring us up the mountain.
就像，有一次，艾拉就像，就像，我们必须爬上一座山，有骡子会带我们上山。
And we just have to encourage these mules to drag us up the mountain.
我们只要鼓励这些骡子把我们拖上山就可以了。
But we're the mules.
但我们是骡子。
So we just have to beat ourselves up this mountain.
所以我们只能靠自己的努力爬上这座山。
And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what's happening.
我当时想，是的，这正是正在发生的事情。
And it does do something to give you a burst of confidence, I guess.
我想，它确实能让你充满信心。
Ladies and gentlemen, I know how corny this idea is and gets said in a thousand locker room pep talks and Nike ads and movie speeches before the big climactic whatever, but it is nonetheless true.
女士们、先生们，我知道这个想法是多么老套，在更衣室的上千场鼓舞士气的演讲、耐克的广告和电影演讲中，无论怎样，它仍然是事实。
Deciding you're a winner, deciding you can do it has a power.
决定自己是胜利者、决定自己能做到，这就是一种力量。
It creates possibilities.
它创造了可能性。
And deciding you're a winner isn't just something that Americans do, but it is such a fundamental thing for so many Americans.
决定自己是胜利者不仅是美国人所做的事情，而且对许多美国人来说也是一件至关重要的事情。
It's Muhammad Ali and Billie Jean King and Zohran Mamdani but also Donald Trump and Simone Biles and Frank Sinatra.
这是穆罕默德·阿里、比利·简·金和佐兰·马姆达尼，还有唐纳德·特朗普、西蒙·拜尔斯和弗兰克·西纳特拉。
And so much of this country was made by outsiders who traveled here, so many of them just deciding and believing that they could succeed here and have a better life.
这个国家的大部分都是由来到这里的外来者创造的，他们中的许多人只是决定并相信他们可以在这里取得成功并过上更好的生活。
Maybe that's why this mentality is so common here and feels so American.
也许这就是为什么这种心态在这里如此普遍，而且感觉如此美国化。
We are the mule.
我们是骡子。
Today on our show-- winners.
今天我们的节目——获奖者。
We're going to watch them in action in a tough game, where the rules are literally being made up as they go along.
我们将观看他们在一场艰难的比赛中的表现，比赛的规则实际上是在比赛过程中制定的。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life, Act One, Winners Welcome.
这就是美国生活，第一幕，欢迎获奖者。
We've done a lot of stories this year about people who were negatively affected, in one way or another, by big new policies rolled out by the Trump administration-- people who've been detained by ICE, or who lost government jobs, or had their funding cut, or been kicked out of the military, or found their Black student union can no longer be called a Black student union.
今年我们做了很多关于那些以某种方式受到特朗普政府推出的重大新政策负面影响的人的故事——那些被 ICE 拘留的人，或者失去政府工作的人，或者资金被削减的人，或者被踢出军队的人，或者发现他们的黑人学生会不再被称为黑人学生会的人。
But the story we're about to tell is about other people-- people who saw new Trump administration policies, who saw one of the hundreds of executive orders that the president has signed.
但我们要讲述的故事是关于其他人的——看到特朗普政府新政策的人，看到总统签署的数百项行政命令之一的人。
And they thought to themselves, holy cow, that's great news for me, personally.
他们心想，天哪，这对我个人来说是个好消息。
They were targeted by some new policy and happy about it.
他们成为了一些新政策的目标，并对此感到高兴。
This particular group of winners is in the news this week, but Chana Joffe-Walt has been following the story from the beginning through many turns.
这组特殊的获奖者本周出现在新闻中，但查娜·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 从一开始就一直在关注这个故事。
You're about to hear drama, suspense, rivalry.
你将会听到戏剧、悬念、竞争。
This is a true story about trying to win in 2025 America.
这是一个关于努力赢得 2025 年美国的真实故事。
Her story begins, as so many do these days, with an announcement from the White House.
正如当今许多人所做的那样，她的故事始于白宫的一项声明。
Here's Chana.
这是查娜。
The word went out in February of this year.
这个消息是在今年二月传出的。
It was Executive Order 14204.
这是第 14204 号行政命令。
Title-- Addressing Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa.
标题——解决南非共和国的恶劣行为。
Yeah.
是的。
So that's actually a funny story.
所以这实际上是一个有趣的故事。
I was asleep, obviously.
显然我睡着了。
It was South African time.
那是南非时间。
It was day during the US but night here.
美国是白天，但这里是晚上。
And I woke up.
我醒了。
And it was, like, 3:00 in the morning.
那是凌晨 3:00。
And I saw a media storm.
我看到了一场媒体风暴。
So I think I was one of the first Afrikaners to actually see it.
所以我想我是第一批真正看到它的南非荷兰语人之一。
Joost Strydom-- fresh faced, serious, Afrikaner, a white minority in South Africa.
Joost Strydom——新面孔、严肃的南非白人，是南非的少数白人。
Joost is the leader of a whites-only town.
乔斯特是一个只有白人的小镇的领导者。
Yes, one of those exists.
是的，其中之一是存在的。
It's all Afrikaners in the Northern Cape in the desert.
都是北开普省沙漠里的南非荷兰语人。
It's called Orania.
它的名字叫奥拉尼亚。
Joost grew up there.
乔斯特在那里长大。
So it's 3:00 AM, and he's reading this executive order from President Trump.
现在是凌晨 3:00，他正在宣读特朗普总统的行政命令。
It talked about a, quote, "shocking disregard of citizens' rights" happening in South Africa, "unjust discrimination" against Afrikaners.
它谈到了南非发生的“对公民权利的令人震惊的无视”，以及对南非荷兰语人的“不公正歧视”。
Joost has been talking about these exact issues-- the egregious actions mentioned in the executive order-- for years.
多年来，乔斯特一直在谈论这些具体问题——行政命令中提到的恶劣行为。
President Trump was using the same words he uses, calling for the same changes.
特朗普总统用了同样的措辞，呼吁同样的改变。
We could almost not believe our eyes when we saw the president of the mightiest country in the world just mentioning us specifically.
当我们看到世界上最强大国家的总统专门提到我们时，我们几乎不敢相信自己的眼睛。
It sounds like you go to, like, a rock concert.
听起来就像你去参加一场摇滚音乐会。
And your favorite band up there is like, happy birthday, Billy.
你最喜欢的乐队就像，生日快乐，比利。
And you're like, oh my god, I'm Billy.
你会说，天哪，我是比利。
[LAUGHS] Yes, it's basically that feeling.
[笑]是的，基本上就是这种感觉。
An incredible win, a high-- and then, suddenly, a bit of a crash.
一场令人难以置信的胜利，一场高潮——然后，突然，有点崩溃。
A few sentences later in the executive order, Joost saw the order's solution to address this unjust targeting of Afrikaners was for the United States to resettle, quote, "Afrikaner refugees escaping government-sponsored, race-based discrimination," end quote.
在行政命令的几句话后，乔斯特看到该命令解决针对南非荷兰语人的这种不公正目标的解决方案是让美国重新安置，引用，“逃离政府支持的、基于种族的歧视的南非荷兰语难民”，最后引用。
So that was-- I think it was, for all of us, a big, big, big surprise.
所以我认为这对我们所有人来说都是一个很大很大的惊喜。
Refugees?
难民？
Joost thought-- as in, leave the country?
乔斯特心想——比如，离开这个国家？
He didn't want to leave the country.
他不想离开这个国家。
He wanted President Trump to help Afrikaners get their own territory in Africa.
他希望特朗普总统帮助南非荷兰语人在非洲获得自己的领土。
And he wanted President Trump to pressure the South African government to get rid of what he sees as racist laws against white people.
他希望特朗普总统向南非政府施压，要求其废除他认为针对白人的种族主义法律。
He was not looking to come to the US and become American.
他不想来美国并成为美国人。
Afrikaners belong in Africa.
南非荷兰语人属于非洲。
So we don't want to be refugees.
所以我们不想成为难民。
We want to be here.
我们想在这里。
We are African.
我们是非洲人。
We belong here.
我们属于这里。
The Afrikaners are a specific group with a proud history.
南非荷兰语人是一个有着悠久历史的特殊群体。
The history that you may know about Afrikaners is that they invented apartheid, that for nearly half a century, Afrikaners maintained a brutal and violent system of racial segregation in South Africa that denied Black South Africans political and economic power-- the right to vote, the right to own land, to equal housing, education, wages, to move freely, speak freely, and choose where to live, to run businesses.
你可能了解的关于南非荷兰语人的历史是，他们发明了种族隔离制度，近半个世纪以来，南非荷兰语人在南非维持着残酷和暴力的种族隔离制度，剥夺了南非黑人的政治和经济权力——投票权、拥有土地的权利、平等住房、教育、工资的权利、自由迁徙、自由言论、选择居住地点和经营企业的权利。
Joost is referring to the Afrikaner history before all of that, the mostly Dutch settlers who came to South Africa and became Afrikaners more than three centuries ago, set up farms, fought the British.
乔斯特指的是在此之前的南非荷兰语历史，主要是荷兰定居者，他们在三个多世纪前来到南非并成为南非荷兰语人，建立农场，与英国人作战。
We moved away from British occupation with ox and wagon.
我们带着牛和马车逃离了英国的占领。
And we are farming people.
而我们是农民。
We are people of the open veld.
我们是旷野上的人。
We modernized our language.
我们使我们的语言现代化。
We did the first heart transplant, and so on.
我们进行了第一例心脏移植手术，等等。
And now all of that's taken away.
现在这一切都被拿走了。
We have no political say.
我们没有政治发言权。
We have no place.
我们没有地方了。
When South Africa became a democracy after apartheid in 1994, it was one of the few countries in the world that was trying to build a democracy with lots of different people, different races, religions, with 11 official national languages.
当南非于 1994 年结束种族隔离后成为民主国家时，它是世界上少数几个试图建立一个拥有许多不同人民、不同种族、宗教、拥有 11 种官方民族语言的民主国家的国家之一。
The new South Africa branded itself the Rainbow Nation.
新南非将自己称为“彩虹之国”。
Rainbowism emphasized unity.
彩虹主义强调团结。
And Joost felt the Afrikaner identity was shoved aside and threatened.
乔斯特感到南非荷兰语的身份被推到一边并受到威胁。
Afrikaners were expected to be just South African.
南非荷兰语人被认为只是南非人。
The issue is, with Afrikaners, we're a very small minority in a very large country.
问题是，对于南非荷兰语来说，我们在一个幅员辽阔的国家中只是极少数。
Just demographic realities, being such a minority, that we have so little influence politically and economically-- who's going to call the shots?
只是人口现实，作为少数群体，我们在政治和经济上的影响力如此之小——谁来发号施令？
It's always the majority, and minorities gets trampled on.
永远是多数人，少数人就被践踏。
A word on the trampling of white South Africans-- they own nearly three times the farmland of Black South Africans and hold more than 60% of the top corporate jobs in South Africa, while being around 7% of the population.
关于南非白人的践踏，他们拥有南非黑人近三倍的农田，占据南非 60% 以上的企业高层职位，而他们的人口却只占南非人口的 7% 左右。
There was no massive wealth or land redistribution after apartheid fell.
种族隔离制度废除后，并没有大规模的财富或土地重新分配。
Instead, the government has adopted various policies to try to rectify vast racial imbalances in employment, education, resources, everything over time, bit by bit.
相反，政府采取了各种政策，试图随着时间的推移，一点一点地纠正就业、教育、资源等方面巨大的种族失衡。
These were various affirmative action type efforts, like requiring companies to diversify their shareholders, and recently, a new land reform law that would allow the government, in rare cases, to take property without compensation.
这些都是各种平权行动类型的努力，例如要求公司实现股东多元化，以及最近的一项新的土地改革法，该法将允许政府在极少数情况下无偿征用财产。
That's the trampling Joost is talking about and President Trump's executive order is talking about.
这就是乔斯特所说的践踏和特朗普总统的行政命令所说的。
The only problem for Joost with the executive order was that whole refugee bit.
对于乔斯特来说，行政命令的唯一问题是整个难民问题。
And I gathered some of the decision makers in our community, and we decided to immediately react to this.
我召集了社区中的一些决策者，我们决定立即对此做出反应。
So we had a very, very serious conversation.
所以我们进行了一次非常非常严肃的谈话。
We understood it as a watershed moment.
我们将其理解为一个分水岭时刻。
And we said, well, we're going to give a very simple message that we will put on social media, hoping to reach the Trump administration with that.
我们说，好吧，我们将在社交媒体上发布一条非常简单的信息，希望能传达给特朗普政府。
And our message was basically, firstly, thank you.
我们的信息基本上是，首先，谢谢。
And secondly, we appreciate it.
其次，我们对此表示赞赏。
But then we don't want to be refugees in another man's country.
但我们不想成为另一个国家的难民。
We have a three-word message for President Trump.
我们向特朗普总统传达三个字的信息。
And that is rather, help us here.
相反，请在这里帮助我们。
And "help us here" became our slogan.
“在这里帮助我们”成为我们的口号。
The two big Afrikaner advocacy groups in South Africa were on the same page.
南非两大南非荷兰语倡导团体意见一致。
Thank you.
谢谢。
You see us and our plight.
你看到了我们和我们的困境。
And no thank you on that whole refugee part.
不，谢谢你整个难民部分。
Help us here.
在这里帮助我们。
Joost went with the delegation of Afrikaners to America to lobby in DC and New York.
乔斯特随南非荷兰语代表团前往美国，在华盛顿和纽约进行游说。
And the message seemed to land.
这个消息似乎落地了。
They made international headlines.
他们成为国际头条新闻。
No, thanks.
不，谢谢。
White South Africans turned down Trump's US immigration offer.
南非白人拒绝了特朗普的美国移民提议。
Afrikaner communities reject Trump's resettlement offer.
南非荷兰语社区拒绝特朗普的重新安置提议。
We were mortified.
我们感到羞愧。
Chana Joffe-Walt You were what?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 你是什么？
Mortified, mortified, mortified.
羞愧，羞愧，羞愧。
Because hold on a minute.
因为等一下。
We don't want President Trump to take this away because we apparently said no, thank you.
我们不希望特朗普总统拿走这个，因为我们显然拒绝了，谢谢。
We don't say no, thank you.
我们不会拒绝，谢谢。
We accept.
我们接受。
Sam Busa fuming from her home on the eastern coast of South Africa, KwaZulu-Natal-- these big Afrikaner membership groups going to America, acting like they're speaking for everyone.
萨姆·布萨 (Sam Busa) 在南非东海岸夸祖鲁-纳塔尔省的家中感到愤怒——这些大型南非荷兰语会员团体前往美国，表现得好像他们在为所有人说话。
Needless to say, the people that were not their members and did not think that way became very angry.
不用说，那些不属于他们的成员并且不这么认为的人变得非常愤怒。
And then they all found me.
然后他们都找到了我。
Joost's efforts might have been the end of things, except for Sam popped up.
乔斯特的努力可能就是事情的结局，除非山姆突然出现。
She saw that executive order, and Sam had different ideas for what to do with it.
她看到了这项行政命令，而山姆对于如何处理它有不同的想法。
Sam is 60 years old, semi-retired businesswoman, white, constitutionally busy.
Sam 是一位 60 岁的半退休女商人，白人，天生忙碌。
She is rarely doing one thing at a time.
她很少一次只做一件事。
I'm going to put the kettle on while I'm talking to you--
我要在和你说话的时候把水壶打开--
OK, perfect.
好的，完美。
Sam Busa --and have a tea break.
Sam Busa——然后喝茶休息。
There I was, happily getting on with my organic gardening at the beginning of February 2025.
2025 年 2 月初，我很高兴地继续我的有机园艺。
And out of the blue came this executive order, to everybody's shock and surprise, let's be honest.
老实说，这项行政命令出乎意料地出台，让每个人都感到震惊和惊讶。
So I immediately thought, myself, I'm all for this.
所以我立刻想，我自己，我完全赞成这个。
But still, the idea of refugee was a bit of a shock.
但难民的想法还是有点令人震惊。
Did you think, refugees?
难民们，你们想过吗？
That's not a word that I would guess you had associated with yourself before.
我猜你以前不会把这个词与自己联系起来。
No. No, no. It was actually a horrifying word.
不，不，不。这实际上是一个令人恐惧的词。
You know what the word refugee conjures up?
你知道难民这个词会让人联想到什么吗？
Is raggedy people that have run across a border that are escaping a war zone and are hiding under a tree, waiting for a helicopter to rescue them.
那些衣衫褴褛的人们逃离战区，越过边境，躲在树下，等待直升机救援。
That's what it conjures, doesn't it?
这就是它让人联想到的，不是吗？
And so it was totally foreign to me.
所以这对我来说完全陌生。
And I looked at this, and I thought, wow.
我看着这个，我想，哇。
The word refugee was totally foreign to Sam, just like it was to Joost.
难民这个词对山姆来说完全陌生，就像对乔斯特一样。
But Sam still felt sure the executive order was intended for her.
但萨姆仍然确信该行政命令是针对她的。
And she wanted it to be for her.
她希望这是给她的。
Sam wanted to move to America.
萨姆想搬到美国。
She was convinced there was no future for her young adult sons in South Africa, that the country was too dangerous, and that as white men, they'd be discriminated against and unable to succeed.
她确信她年轻的儿子们在南非没有未来，这个国家太危险了，作为白人，他们会受到歧视，无法成功。
So this seemed like a great opportunity if she could figure it out.
所以如果她能弄清楚的话，这似乎是一个很好的机会。
This executive order, like most of the 200-plus executive orders that have come out this year, it's not a detailed document.
与今年发布的 200 多项行政命令中的大多数一样，这份行政命令并不是一份详细的文件。
It's two pages.
有两页。
It's a broad announcement that injustice is happening in South Africa, Afrikaners are the victims, and they're invited to be refugees in America.
这是一个广泛的公告，表明南非正在发生不公正现象，南非荷兰人是受害者，他们被邀请成为美国的难民。
What it does not say is how this will work, how many people, who qualifies, how to apply.
它没有说明如何运作、有多少人、谁有资格以及如何申请。
How do these particular people fit within the existing laws that govern the refugee program?
这些特定的人如何适应管理难民计划的现行法律？
How will they get through the vetting process?
他们将如何通过审查过程？
It leaves all those details to be sorted out at some other time by someone else.
它让其他人在其他时间来解决所有这些细节。
Sam took it upon herself to be that someone.
萨姆认为自己就是那个人。
The first thing to tackle was that word refugee.
首先要解决的就是“难民”这个词。
Sam was not a refugee.
萨姆不是难民。
Or was she?
或者她是？
Could she possibly be one?
她有可能是其中之一吗？
After 40 years in business, I've got a pretty decent knowledge of legal stuff.
经过 40 年的从业经历，我对法律知识有了相当丰富的了解。
So I just went and looked in the obvious places.
所以我就去那些明显的地方看看。
Like, OK, so who runs refugee programs?
就像，好吧，那么谁来管理难民计划呢？
OK, so it's PRM.
好的，这就是 PRM。
OK.
好的。
Who else is involved?
还有谁参与其中？
Oh, USCIS.
哦，移民局。
So I went on their websites and tried to understand the difference between refugees and asylees.
所以我访问了他们的网站，试图了解难民和政治庇护者之间的区别。
But it didn't take me very long.
但这并没有花费我很长时间。
I was quite obsessed.
我非常着迷。
A key thing Sam wanted to know-- could she qualify as a refugee if she hadn't fled the country?
萨姆想知道的一个关键问题是：如果她没有逃离这个国家，她是否有资格成为难民？
In all the government websites she went to, the answer seemed pretty straightforward-- no. A refugee is someone who is living, quote, "outside any country of such person's nationality." Refugees are people who flee.
在她访问过的所有政府网站上，答案似乎都很简单——不。难民是指“居住在其国籍所在国家之外”的人。难民是逃离的人。
Sam was living at home in her home country.
萨姆住在她祖国的家里。
But then she found a section of immigration law, 101(a)(42)(B), which allows a refugee to be in country under special circumstances specified by the president.
但后来她发现了移民法第 101(a)(42)(B) 条，允许难民在总统指定的特殊情况下进入该国。
Aha, this is how President Trump could do it.
啊哈，特朗普总统就是这么做的。
Maybe she could qualify.
也许她有资格。
It became apparent to me that there are many types of refugee programs and that it wouldn't be a case of expecting South Africans to literally go into FEMA tents or anything like that.
对我来说，显然难民计划有很多种，并且不可能指望南非人真正进入联邦应急管理局的帐篷或类似的东西。
It became pretty clear to me that these things can be rather dignified and quite orderly.
我很清楚，这些事情可以相当有尊严，也相当有秩序。
This was her first stab at interpreting the language in the executive order, figuring out how she could fit the word refugee legally and comfortably.
这是她第一次尝试解释行政命令中的语言，弄清楚如何合法且舒适地使用“难民”这个词。
Next, the executive order uses the words, quote, "unjust racial discrimination." It says it's for the victims of discrimination.
接下来，行政命令使用了“不公正的种族歧视”一词。它说这是为了歧视的受害者。
Sam was confident her family qualified for that.
萨姆相信她的家人有资格这样做。
She says specifically, her young adult sons have been denied or would be denied jobs in South Africa because they're white.
她具体说，她年轻的成年儿子已经或将被拒绝在南非找到工作，因为他们是白人。
But if Sam went to the officials who screened refugee applications to America, she wasn't sure discrimination would actually be enough to qualify as a refugee.
但如果萨姆去找负责审查美国难民申请的官员，她不确定歧视实际上是否足以获得难民资格。
She read the main law governing US immigration, the Immigration and Nationality Act.
她阅读了管理美国移民的主要法律——《移民和国籍法》。
And--
还有——
The word discrimination's not used.
没有使用歧视这个词。
In dealing with refugees around the world, they never used the word discrimination.
在对待世界各地的难民时，他们从未使用过“歧视”这个词。
Yet, President Trump used the word discrimination.
然而，特朗普总统使用了“歧视”这个词。
Quite possibly, the word discrimination in the executive order probably wasn't his best choice of word.
很可能，行政命令中的“歧视”一词可能不是他的最佳用词。
I think he probably meant to say persecution.
我想他可能想说的是迫害。
Because persecution is required.
因为迫害是需要的。
Another puzzle for Sam to figure out.
山姆需要解决的另一个难题。
Meanwhile--
与此同时——
I decided to put up a little website, questions and answers.
我决定建立一个小网站、问题和答案。
And then whatever my findings are, let me share those with my fellow citizens.
然后无论我的发现是什么，让我与我的同胞们分享。
OK.
好的。
I came across the word Amerikaners, which I thought was cute as anything.
我偶然发现了“Americaners”这个词，我觉得这个词很可爱。
Amerikaners is Afrikaans for Americans.
Americaners 是美国人的南非荷兰语。
She registered the domain and set up a Facebook page.
她注册了域名并建立了一个 Facebook 页面。
This became a hub for other white South Africans who'd heard about the executive order.
这里成为其他听说该行政命令的南非白人的聚集地。
So we started disseminating what we, in our personal capacity, had investigated.
因此，我们开始传播我们以个人身份调查的内容。
And obviously, there were lots of I don't knows that went with all of that.
显然，还有很多我不知道的事情。
So I don't want to give anybody the opinion that somehow we knew everything.
所以我不想让任何人认为我们不知何故知道一切。
What were a lot of the repeat questions or most common questions?
大量重复的问题或最常见的问题是什么？
Well, one of the most difficult ones was, they say Afrikaners.
嗯，最困难的事情之一是，他们说南非荷兰语。
Now, in South Africa-- you're American.
现在，在南非——你是美国人。
You don't understand the nuance of the cultures in South Africa.
你不了解南非文化的细微差别。
So half of the white population is English speaking.
所以一半的白人会说英语。
So all of the folks, like myself, that's of British descent was thinking, oh, no. They're just going to take the Afrikaners and not me, the Englishman.
所以所有像我一样有英国血统的人都在想，哦，不。他们只会带走南非荷兰语人，而不是我这个英国人。
You're not Afrikaner?
你不是南非荷兰语？
Sam Busa Yeah.
萨姆·布萨 是的。
No, I'm not an Afrikaner.
不，我不是南非荷兰语人。
Pause.
暂停。
This was surprising to me.
这让我很惊讶。
Sam was running a website for people interested in Trump's offer to Afrikaners.
萨姆正在为那些对特朗普向南非荷兰语人提供的优惠感兴趣的人运营一个网站。
Afrikaners are generally descended from Dutch settlers, speak Afrikaans as their first language.
南非荷兰语人通常是荷兰定居者的后裔，以南非荷兰语为第一语言。
White South Africans who are not Afrikaners-- generally English ancestry.
不是南非荷兰语的南非白人——通常有英国血统。
We were 20 minutes into talking.
我们聊了20分钟。
It hadn't actually occurred to me to ask if she indeed was Afrikaner.
我实际上并没有想到要问她是否真的是南非荷兰人。
She's not.
她不是。
But this was another spot where the word in the executive order did not precisely fit Sam until Sam figured out how it could fit.
但这是另一个地方，行政命令中的这个词并不完全适合萨姆，直到萨姆弄清楚它如何适合。
But the truth is, these groups have mixed, intermingled across hundreds of years.
但事实是，这些群体在数百年的时间里一直混合在一起。
So to prove one person is an Afrikaner and the other doesn't have any Afrikaner is almost impossible without genealogies for everybody.
因此，如果没有每个人的家谱，要证明一个人是南非荷兰语而另一个人没有任何南非荷兰语几乎是不可能的。
So we did make a deduction.
所以我们确实做了扣除。
I'm sure, as an English person, you'll be included.
我确信，作为一个英国人，你也会被包括在内。
But we always had to put a disclaimer on that because we just don't know, what does an American think the word Afrikaner means?
但我们总是不得不对此做出免责声明，因为我们只是不知道，美国人认为南非荷兰语这个词意味着什么？
So you thought, OK, they might mean only Afrikaners, meaning strictly Afrikaner background ancestry, speaks Afrikaans.
所以你想，好吧，它们可能只指南非荷兰语，严格意义上说是南非荷兰语背景血统。
They might mean somebody who lives on a farm.
他们可能指的是住在农场的人。
They might just mean white people in South Africa.
他们可能只是指南非的白人。
Correct.
正确的。
So I cautiously told everybody that it was my opinion that it included all South Africans, English and Afrikaans.
所以我谨慎地告诉大家，我认为它包括所有南非人、英国人和南非荷兰语。
All white South Africans.
都是南非白人。
Sam Busa But I was only 95% sure.
Sam Busa 但我只有 95% 确定。
Almost everyone who came to the Amerikaners Facebook page had the same question Sam had.
几乎每个访问 Americaners Facebook 页面的人都提出了 Sam 相同的问题。
Do I qualify to go to the US under this executive order?
根据此行政命令，我有资格前往美国吗？
Here's a comment.
这是一条评论。
"Not a funny or rude question, just want to know, what criteria is acceptable candidate?
“这不是一个有趣或粗鲁的问题，只是想知道，可接受的候选人的标准是什么？
How bad does your experience need to be?"
你的经历需要有多糟糕？”
Another-- "How will the USA decide if I'm suitable?
另一个——“美国将如何决定我是否适合？
I'm white, Afrikaans, male, hardworking with strong Christian beliefs, in a country where I'm prosecuted for my skin color, my language, my beliefs.
我是白人，南非荷兰语，男性，勤奋，有强烈的基督教信仰，在一个我因肤色、语言和信仰而受到起诉的国家。
Does that make me, quote, 'suitable,' or must I first be shot and stabbed?" There were other questions too.
这是否让我，引用，‘合适’，还是我必须先被枪杀和刺伤？”还有其他问题。
I'm 56.
我56岁了。
Aren't I too old?
我是不是太老了？
Or am I allowed to bring my dogs?
或者我可以带我的狗吗？
And is it just for farmers?
它只适用于农民吗？
Because a lot of people were talking about the farmers all the time.
因为很多人一直在谈论农民。
President Trump's also mentioned a lot about farmers.
特朗普总统还提到了很多有关农民的内容。
What about if I'm not--
如果我不是——
What are the answers?
答案是什么？
Sam Busa --a farmer?
萨姆·布萨——农民？
OK.
好的。
So myself and one of the volunteers did is, we analyzed every single word that had been said by the president and the State Department beyond the executive order, so the fact sheet that was put out as well as the FAQs that were put out.
因此，我和一名志愿者所做的是，我们分析了总统和国务院在行政命令之外所说的每一个字，因此发布了情况说明书以及发布的常见问题解答。
But what we were saying to people is, look, a refugee program in general does not discriminate whether you're 90 or you're 2.
但我们要对人们说的是，看，难民计划一般不会歧视你是 90 岁还是 2 岁。
If you're in peril, refugee programs are accepting of any human being in peril.
如果您处于危险之中，难民计划就会接受任何处于危险之中的人。
So that sort of deduction, we were able to make and answer lots of questions.
通过这种推论，我们能够提出并回答很多问题。
Can you bring your dogs?
你可以带你的狗吗？
No. Well, you can, but you'll do that privately, out of your own pocket.
不。嗯，你可以，但你要私下自掏腰包。
But the refugee program is not inviting your pets.
但难民计划并没有邀请你的宠物。
This is the level of detail Sam was helping people to think through.
这就是 Sam 帮助人们思考的详细程度。
One problem she still had to solve-- the question of persecution.
她还有一个问题必须解决——迫害问题。
To qualify as a refugee, one must be able to articulate a past experience of persecution or fear of future persecution.
要获得难民资格，一个人必须能够清楚地表达过去遭受迫害的经历或对未来迫害的恐惧。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I've had some events in my life which I would struggle to classify as persecution.
嗯，我一生中发生过一些事件，我很难将它们归类为迫害。
So my past persecution records are somewhat scant.
所以我过去被迫害的记录是比较少的。
They barely make the persecution grade, OK?
他们勉强达到迫害级别，好吗？
So they would rise to severe discrimination.
所以他们会受到严重的歧视。
So look, I've been held at gunpoint with my baby in my arms.
瞧，我怀里抱着我的孩子，被枪指着。
But I can't say that that's persecution.
但我不能说这是迫害。
What I can say is that's just terrible crime.
我只能说，这真是可怕的犯罪行为。
South Africa does have terrible crime, crime that is experienced by every demographic group.
南非确实存在可怕的犯罪，每个人口群体都经历过犯罪。
But Sam looked at the precise definition.
但萨姆查看了精确的定义。
You can either talk about something that's happened to you that was persecution, or you can talk about-- so it's and/or-- or you can talk about your fear of future persecution.
你可以谈论发生在你身上的迫害事件，或者你可以谈论——所以它是和/或——或者你可以谈论你对未来迫害的恐惧。
This became a big topic in the Amerikaners group, what counts as future persecution.
这成为美国人群体中的一个大话题，这将被视为未来的迫害。
In the various group chats and on the Facebook page, there was one video that got passed around often as potential evidence.
在各种群聊和 Facebook 页面上，有一段视频经常作为潜在证据而流传。
It's a video of a Black politician from a minority party in South Africa leading a chant called kill the Boer at a political rally.
这是一段来自南非少数党的黑人政客在政治集会上高呼“杀死布尔人”的视频。
Boer is farmers in Afrikaans.
Boer 在南非荷兰语中是农民的意思。
Kill the Boer is an old anti-apartheid chant.
杀死布尔人是一首古老的反种族隔离口号。
Afrikaner groups say it's clearly intended incite violence.
南非荷兰语团体表示，这显然是为了煽动暴力。
And the lyrics are pretty stark.
而且歌词也很鲜明。
Kill the Boer, the farmer.
杀死布尔人，农民。
There have been several court cases about the use of the song over the years.
多年来，已经发生了几起关于使用这首歌的法庭案件。
Most recently, in an appeal, the judge at the constitutional court wrote that a reasonably well-informed person would understand that the politician was using a historic struggle song as a provocative way to advance a political agenda.
最近，宪法法院法官在上诉中写道，一个消息灵通的人会理解这位政客正在利用一首历史性的斗争歌曲作为推进政治议程的挑衅性方式。
It was a form of political speech and therefore protected under the country's freedom of speech laws.
这是一种政治言论形式，因此受到该国言论自由法的保护。
Elon Musk posted the video on X.
埃隆·马斯克 (Elon Musk) 在 X 上发布了该视频。
Musk, South African born, wrote, quote, "They are openly pushing for a genocide of white people in South Africa."
南非出生的马斯克写道，“他们正在公开推动南非白人的种族灭绝。”
So my fear of future persecution and future violence is way greater than my history.
因此，我对未来迫害和未来暴力的恐惧远远超过我的历史。
My fear of future persecution is basically being skinned alive in a genocide.
我对未来迫害的恐惧基本上就是在种族灭绝中被活活剥皮。
You've got government ministers and the constitutional court endor-- well, no endorsing, but allowing, saying that they're entitled to call for the death of white people in South Africa.
你已经得到了政府部长和宪法法院的认可——好吧，不是认可，而是允许，说他们有权要求杀死南非的白人。
And then you've got the government that is completely silent on them calling for the death of white South Africans.
然后政府对他们呼吁南非白人死亡的行为完全保持沉默。
So if that's not persecution, I don't know what is.
所以，如果这都不算迫害，我不知道什么才是迫害。
Sam had made it through each tricky word in the executive order-- refugee, Afrikaner, discrimination.
山姆已经理解了行政命令中的每一个棘手的词——难民、南非荷兰语、歧视。
She'd interpreted the order and translated it and figured out how it would work, how it was legal, and who could qualify-- her and all the other like-minded people she'd organized into a group through her website.
她解释并翻译了该命令，并弄清楚它如何运作、如何合法以及谁有资格——她和她通过网站组织成一个小组的所有其他志同道合的人。
Six weeks after the executive order came out, Sam wrote her own message to President Trump.
行政命令发布六周后，萨姆给特朗普总统写了自己的信息。
Joost Strydom's communiqué had a polite, three-point summary.
Joost Strydom 的公报有一个礼貌的三点总结。
Sam's did too.
山姆也这么做了。
But her message was very different.
但她传达的信息却截然不同。
Sam says hers was signed by 27,000 people in two weeks.
Sam 说她的签名在两周内就有 27,000 人签名。
So the memorandum said three things.
所以备忘录说了三件事。
Thank you.
谢谢。
We appreciate what you've done by reaching out and extending this offer.
我们感谢您通过伸出援手并延长此优惠所做的努力。
Number 2, we accept your offer.
第二，我们接受你方的报价。
And number 3, we will come to contribute, not to drain.
第三，我们将做出贡献，而不是消耗。
The Amerikaners delivered their memorandum to the US embassy in Pretoria.
美国公民向美国驻比勒陀利亚大使馆递交了备忘录。
And Sam posted a photo to the Facebook page.
Sam 在 Facebook 页面上发布了一张照片。
She wrote, "We've gathered.
她写道：“我们聚集在一起。
We've organized.
我们组织好了。
We've collaborated.
我们合作过。
We've spoken.
我们已经谈过了。
We've succeeded."
我们成功了。”
The first group of white South Africans granted refugee status by the Trump administration arrived in the US Monday.
特朗普政府授予难民身份的第一批南非白人周一抵达美国。
The United States has welcomed around 50 white South Africans following President Trump's--
继特朗普总统之后，美国迎来了约 50 名南非白人——
May 12, 2025-- 59 white South Africans.
2025 年 5 月 12 日——59 名南非白人。
Sam Busa was not one of them.
萨姆·布萨不是其中之一。
She was watching from South Africa.
她在南非观看比赛。
While Sam was organizing Amerikaners, the US government had been rapidly putting together a small group of South African refugees, bringing them over on a private chartered plane to Dulles Airport.
当萨姆组织美国人时，美国政府迅速召集了一小群南非难民，用私人包机将他们带到杜勒斯机场。
At Dulles, they stood in a loosely arranged line, holding small American flags, their children in pajamas, smiling, unsure which camera to look at as they were personally welcomed by the deputy secretaries of both the US State Department and the Department of Homeland Security.
在杜勒斯，他们排成松散的队伍，举着小美国国旗，他们的孩子穿着睡衣，微笑着，不知道该看哪一个镜头，因为他们受到了美国国务院和国土安全部副部长的亲自欢迎。
Welcome.
欢迎。
Welcome to the United States of America.
欢迎来到美利坚合众国。
It makes me so happy to see you with our flag in your hands.
看到你们手里拿着我们的旗帜，我感到非常高兴。
And that flag symbolizes liberty for so many of us.
这面旗帜对我们许多人来说象征着自由。
I want you all to know that you are really welcome here and that we respect what you have had to deal with these last few years.
我想让大家知道，我们非常欢迎你们来到这里，我们尊重你们过去几年所经历的一切。
We respect the long tradition of your people and what you have accomplished over the years.
我们尊重你们人民的悠久传统以及你们多年来所取得的成就。
And I am sure that you will be successful.
我相信你会成功。
Everybody within DHS, we've been so excited to be able to get you guys here.
国土安全部的各位，我们非常高兴能够让你们来到这里。
I was tracking your flight, 12 hours that you were-- last night.
昨晚我正在追踪你的航班，比你晚了 12 个小时。
I'm like, oh my god.
我想，天哪。
So thank you for just the patience of being able to get here.
感谢您的耐心来到这里。
We're so grateful.
我们非常感激。
I think Chris and I both just wanted to come and make sure that we greet you guys, we meet you, give our contact information to you.
我想克里斯和我都只是想来确保我们向你们打招呼，我们会见你们，并向你们提供我们的联系信息。
And if there's anything that we could do--
如果有什么我们可以做的——
I have looked at the photos of this press conference so many times, zoomed in on every detail, just trying to make my brain take in this picture, this photo op and everything that it means about America and about South Africa.
我已经多次看过这次新闻发布会的照片，放大每一个细节，只是想让我的大脑记住这张照片、这张照片以及它对美国和南非意味着的一切。
Those two countries have always played off each other in my mind.
在我心目中，这两个国家一直互相较量。
My parents grew up in South Africa.
我的父母在南非长大。
I grew up in America watching South Africa.
我在美国长大，看着南非。
It's where our family was.
那是我们一家人呆过的地方。
And South Africa has always been a symbol.
南非一直是一个象征。
In my lifetime, it was a global pariah, boycotted by everyone.
在我的一生中，它是一个全球性的贱民，受到所有人的抵制。
And then apartheid fell, and South Africa became a model of justice and reconciliation.
然后种族隔离制度废除，南非成为正义与和解的典范。
American leaders tripped over themselves to celebrate the new South Africa, practically deified Nelson Mandela, photos of President Clinton applauding as Mandela and then-President de Klerk shook hands and Clinton, quote, "thrilled at the peaceful election process and national unity," photos of Mandela winning the Congressional Gold Medal, Newt Gingrich on one side, President Clinton on the other.
美国领导人在庆祝新南非时被绊倒，几乎神化了纳尔逊·曼德拉，照片中克林顿总统在曼德拉和时任总统德克勒克握手时鼓掌，克林顿“对和平的选举过程和国家团结感到兴奋”，照片中曼德拉赢得国会金质奖章，一侧是纽特·金里奇，另一侧是克林顿总统。
America was eager to share in the symbolism of this new multiracial democracy because it added some nice shine to our own.
美国渴望分享这种新的多种族民主的象征意义，因为它为我们自己的民主增添了一些美好的光芒。
Their story was our story and their redemption ours.
他们的故事就是我们的故事，他们的救赎就是我们的故事。
Their success was ours too.
他们的成功也是我们的。
Now, these photos of Afrikaner refugees in the Dulles Airport, this is a new kind of symbolism, a new way for America to use South Africa to say something about ourselves.
现在，这些南非荷兰语难民在杜勒斯机场的照片，这是一种新的象征意义，是美国利用南非来表达我们自己的一种新方式。
In these photos, South Africa is not an inspiring symbol of multiracial democracy anymore.
在这些照片中，南非不再是多种族民主的鼓舞人心的象征。
That story is over.
那个故事就结束了。
The photos are like a reset.
照片就像重置了一样。
South Africa is a cautionary tale.
南非是一个警示故事。
It's a DEI nation, a place where white people can no longer be safe, where the tables have turned, where they've gone too far.
这是一个 DEI 国家，在这里，白人不再安全，局势已经逆转，他们已经走得太远了。
This is where efforts toward equality lead us.
这就是我们努力实现平等的方向。
A rainbow nation only ends in disaster.
彩虹之国只会以灾难告终。
And the photo op communicates something else too.
这张照片还传达了一些其他的信息。
It says, look, this is our new refugee policy.
它说，看，这是我们新的难民政策。
Well, because what's happening in South Africa fits the textbook definition of why the refugee program was created.
嗯，因为南非正在发生的事情符合教科书上关于难民计划创建原因的定义。
Stephen Miller, presidential advisor, seems to be the guy coming up with our immigration policy.
总统顾问斯蒂芬·米勒似乎是我们移民政策的提出者。
The Trump administration suspended refugee admissions to the United States.
特朗普政府暂停接收难民进入美国。
It was one of the president's first executive orders on his first day in office.
这是总统上任第一天发布的首批行政命令之一。
Refugees waiting in camps all over the world, sometimes for generations, were cut off.
在世界各地的难民营中等待的难民，有时甚至是几代人，都与外界隔绝。
Most refugees wait years for the chance to be vetted to possibly get a chance to come to the United States.
大多数难民要等待数年才能有机会接受审查，才有机会来到美国。
These South Africans arrived in three months.
这些南非人在三个月内抵达。
The refugee program is not intended as a solution for global poverty.
难民计划并不是为了解决全球贫困问题。
And historically, it has been used that way.
从历史上看，它一直是这样使用的。
This is not true.
这不是真的。
For instance, 12,000 refugees had already been approved to resettle in America when the Afrikaners arrived.
例如，当南非荷兰人抵达时，已有 12,000 名难民获准在美国重新定居。
They were approved, meaning they'd been through the security clearance, the health check, background check, interviews, and were arranging their travel to the US.
他们获得了批准，这意味着他们已经通过了安全审查、健康检查、背景调查、面试，并正在安排前往美国的旅行。
Some of them already had flights booked.
其中一些人已经预订了航班。
Those 12,000 people were approved not because they were fleeing poverty.
这12,000人获得批准并不是因为他们正在逃离贫困。
They were fleeing war, religious persecution, political persecution, Congolese families who fled to Rwanda after their neighbors were killed, Rohingya from Myanmar who were fleeing kidnappings, rape, and genocide, some Afghans who supported US troops in America's war effort.
他们逃离战争、宗教迫害、政治迫害，刚果家庭在邻居被杀后逃往卢旺达，缅甸罗辛亚人逃离绑架、强奸和种族灭绝，一些阿富汗人在美国战争中支持美军。
Those people, Miller is saying, are not the textbook refugees.
米勒说，这些人不是教科书上的难民。
These are.
这些都是。
After the photo op, back in May, two different schools of thought emerged about what was going to happen next.
早在五月的合影之后，关于接下来会发生什么，出现了两种不同的思想流派。
This is a fancy way of saying Sam and I disagreed.
这是表达我和山姆不同意的一种奇特方式。
We are the schools of thought.
我们是思想流派。
I figured, after seeing those photos and videos of the new South African refugees, I figured, that's probably it for the whole alleged refugee program.
我想，在看到这些新南非难民的照片和视频后，我想，这可能就是整个所谓的难民计划的原因。
It's pretty effective symbolism.
这是非常有效的象征意义。
I think they got what they wanted.
我认为他们得到了他们想要的。
The Trump administration has a lot of other goals to pursue.
特朗普政府还有很多其他目标需要追求。
They're not likely going to bother building a whole program to bring over more people like Sam.
他们不太可能费心建立一个完整的计划来吸引更多像萨姆这样的人。
Sam, back in South Africa, had gotten in her application for resettlement to the US and was waiting with her thousands of Amerikaners.
回到南非的萨姆已经收到了重新定居美国的申请，并和她的数千名美国人一起等待。
And she had a different thought.
而她却有不同的想法。
I have absolutely no doubt.
我绝对没有疑问。
Chana Joffe-Walt Sam says she'd read everything everyone was saying, everything every person in the administration, adjacent to the administration--
查娜·乔夫-沃尔特·萨姆说她读了每个人所说的一切，政府中每个人以及与政府相邻的每个人的一切——
They're all very intent on, OK, well, this is just the pilot project.
他们都非常专注，好吧，这只是试点项目。
We're going to ramp things up now.
我们现在要加大力度。
I have no doubt that that's where it's going.
我毫不怀疑这就是它的发展方向。
She had no doubt.
她毫不怀疑。
I had some doubt.
我有些怀疑。
One of us was right.
我们中的一个人是对的。
Chana Joffe-Walt.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特。
Coming up, secret moving companies and a joke about cars-- that's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
接下来，秘密搬家公司和关于汽车的笑话——稍后我们的节目将继续播出，这是芝加哥公共广播电台的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program-- winners, people who decide "I can make this happen" as the first step to making it happen.
今天的节目——获胜者，那些决定“我能做到这一点”作为实现这一目标的第一步的人。
If you're just tuning in, we're in the middle of a Chana Joffe-Walt story about Amerikaners, white South Africans who want to come to the United States as refugees.
如果您刚刚收看，我们正在收听查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 的故事，故事讲述的是美国人、南非白人，他们想以难民的身份来到美国。
Where we left off-- the United States had brought over a small group of 59 of them.
在我们上次停下来的地方，美国带来了一小批 59 人。
And back in South Africa, Sam Busa had organized thousands of others who were waiting, hoping the United States was about to ramp up a big program for them.
回到南非，萨姆·布萨组织了数千人等待，希望美国能够为他们推出一项大型计划。
Here's Chana.
这是查娜。
From the moment the 59 South Africans landed in the US, Sam's life was transformed.
从 59 名南非人抵达美国的那一刻起，萨姆的生活就发生了改变。
She was inundated with phone calls, emails.
她被电话、电子邮件淹没了。
[SIGHS] I'm working 20-hour days, so I'm frazzled.
[叹气]我每天工作 20 个小时，所以我很疲惫。
So I'll try and focus.
所以我会努力集中注意力。
Everyone who had applied but had not been included in that first small group that went to America wanted to know what this meant.
每个已经申请但没有被纳入第一批去美国的小团体的人都想知道这意味着什么。
Would they get a call soon?
他们很快就会接到电话吗？
Had Amerikaners heard anything?
美国人听到了什么吗？
Reporters wanted to know, what is Amerikaners?
记者想知道，什么是美国人？
How many are you?
你们有多少人？
Who are you?
你是谁？
And Americans who saw the news on X or Ben Shapiro or Megyn Kelly wanted to send their support.
在 X、Ben Shapiro 或 Megyn Kelly 上看到新闻的美国人都想表达他们的支持。
We've actually had a fantastically loving response from America.
事实上，我们得到了来自美国的非常热情的回应。
In truth, I can't tell you how many hundreds and hundreds of Americans have reached out to us in our little group by email, on our X feeds, all over the place, coming forward, giving the most unbelievable testimony of how excited they are to have us there, and people offering help and-- not money, no, not at all.
事实上，我无法告诉你有多少成百上千的美国人在我们的小团体中通过电子邮件、在我们的 X feed 上、在各地挺身而出，提供了最令人难以置信的见证，证明他们对我们在那里感到多么兴奋，人们提供帮助，而且——不是金钱，不，根本不是。
Nobody's exchanged a cent.
没人换一分钱。
And tell me about what are people saying.
并告诉我人们都在说什么。
And who are they?
他们是谁？
A lot of people just saying, hey, I'm in Alabama, or I'm in Utah , or whatever.
很多人只是说，嘿，我在阿拉巴马州，或者我在犹他州，或者其他什么地方。
I've got a farm here, and I'd be happy to-- I've got a cottage.
我在这里有一个农场，我很高兴——我有一座小屋。
If somebody wants to stay here for two months, I can give two months accommodation.
如果有人想在这里呆两个月，我可以提供两个月的住宿。
Or there are people saying, hey, I've got a lot of contacts in business, or I'm involved with the church or whatever.
或者有人说，嘿，我在商业上有很多人脉，或者我与教会有联系或其他什么。
Whoever's coming to Florida, put them in touch with me.
无论谁要来佛罗里达，请让他们与我联系。
I've got lots of contacts.
我有很多联系方式。
I can probably hook them up.
我也许可以把他们联系起来。
Sam responds to each person who reaches out and tells them, we don't have anyone for you yet, but as soon as they ramp up this program, we'll be in touch.
Sam 会对每个伸出援手的人做出回应，并告诉他们，我们还没有适合您的人选，但一旦他们启动此计划，我们就会与您联系。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
We are so excited to join your society, I can't explain.
我们很高兴加入你们的协会，我无法解释。
And then she puts their name, the state they're from, and contact information into a spreadsheet for the future.
然后她将他们的姓名、来自的州和联系信息放入电子表格中以供将来使用。
Sam said there were 70,000 people interested in going to America.
萨姆说有 70,000 人有兴趣去美国。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
No, we're all coming over.
不，我们都过来。
No, we'll see you soon--
不，我们很快就会见到你——
Wow.
哇。
Sam Busa --on our way, around the corner.
Sam Busa——在我们的路上，就在拐角处。
Maybe.
或许。
But in the meantime, they were still living in South Africa.
但与此同时，他们仍然住在南非。
And their fellow countrymen also saw all the photos from Washington and the press conferences from the White House about persecution, targeting, and murder of white South Africans.
他们的同胞也看到了华盛顿的所有照片和白宫的新闻发布会上有关迫害、针对和谋杀南非白人的情况。
South Africans were not, as a whole, happy about this.
总体而言，南非人对此并不高兴。
The government spent weeks repeating, there is no persecution.
政府花了数周时间反复强调，不存在迫害。
Crime in South Africa affects everyone, irrespective of race.
南非的犯罪影响到每个人，无论种族如何。
South African President Cyril Ramaphosa called the South Africans who left for the US cowards--
南非总统西里尔·拉马福萨称那些投奔美国的南非人是懦夫——
When you run away, you're a coward.
当你逃跑的时候，你就是一个胆小鬼。
And that's a real cowardly act.
这真是一种懦弱的行为。
--which made news.
——这成了新闻。
Reporter Ramaphosa claimed these individuals were unwilling to support the country's efforts to correct historic inequities left by apartheid.
记者拉马福萨声称，这些人不愿意支持该国纠正种族隔离造成的历史不平等的努力。
A populist political party made a show of filing a criminal complaint against one of the Afrikaner lobbying groups, calling them treasonous for spreading lies to the United States in order to influence President Trump.
一个民粹主义政党对一个南非荷兰语游说团体提起刑事诉讼，称他们为向美国散布谎言以影响特朗普总统而犯下叛国罪。
Reactions from regular South Africans ranged from confusion, like this Afrikaner interviewed by Reuters--
普通南非人的反应从困惑到困惑，就像接受路透社采访的这位南非荷兰人一样——
Why would you want to go?
你为什么想去？
People carry on like normal.
人们照常生活。
And what are you going to do over there?
你要去那里做什么？
--to mockery.
——嘲讽。
Here's a white comedian on TikTok talking to a Black comedian.
这是 TikTok 上的一位白人喜剧演员与一位黑人喜剧演员的对话。
I turned on the TV the other night, and I hear from Donald Trump and Elon Musk that you've been planning a genocide.
那天晚上我打开电视，我从唐纳德·特朗普和埃隆·马斯克那里听说你们一直在策划一场种族灭绝。
The Black comedian sitting next to him says, oh, yeah, we're killing every day.
坐在他旁边的黑人喜剧演员说，哦，是的，我们每天都在杀人。
I was actually playing padel today.
我今天实际上是在打板球。
And I thought to myself, goodness gracious, we are not killing fast enough.
我心想，天哪，我们杀戮的速度还不够快。
And there were lots of angry South Africans on social media.
社交媒体上有很多愤怒的南非人。
You are not refugees.
你们不是难民。
You're not brave.
你不勇敢。
You're not victims.
你们不是受害者。
You're scared of a world where you don't get to be in charge.
你害怕一个你无法掌控的世界。
And that makes the rest of the Afrikaans community cringe.
这让南非荷兰语社区的其他人感到畏缩。
Trevor Noah-- South Africa's own-- on his podcast, asked his friend Eugene Khoza about it.
南非人特雷弗·诺亚 (Trevor Noah) 在他的播客上向他的朋友尤金·科扎 (Eugene Khoza) 询问了此事。
When was the first time you ever heard about white genocide in South Africa?
您第一次听说南非白人种族灭绝是什么时候？
It was this year.
那是今年。
It was when everyone caught on to it.
就在那时，每个人都意识到了这一点。
I almost felt like I was living in another country.
我几乎感觉自己生活在另一个国家。
Because I looked outside, and I was like--
因为我向外看，然后我就想——
That's crazy.
太疯狂了。
Eugene Khoza --where is this thing happening?
Eugene Khoza——这件事发生在哪里？
And I checked on my neighbor.
我检查了我的邻居。
She was fine.
她很好。
[LAUGHTER] Chana Joffe-Walt The arrival of white South Africans in America was enough of a national spectacle, an in-joke, that some advertisers got in on it-- for instance, a car commercial where a bunch of white men in Jeeps pull up outside a Black man's house, wake him up, revving their engines.
[笑声]查纳·乔菲-沃尔特 南非白人来到美国已经足以成为一个全国性的奇观，一个笑话，以至于一些广告商也参与其中——例如，在一个汽车广告中，一群开着吉普车的白人把车停在一个黑人的房子外面，将他吵醒，并加速引擎。
The man comes out of his house in his robe, saying, what's going on?
那人穿着长袍从家里出来，问道，发生什么事了？
And the white men yell, you haven't heard?
白人大喊大叫，你没听到吗？
You haven't heard?
你没听说过吗？
We've got "rev-jou-jeep" status, baby.
我们已经获得了“rev-jou-jeep”状态，宝贝。
[HONKING] Chana Joffe-Walt They rev the engines more.
[鸣喇叭] Chana Joffe-Walt 他们加快了发动机的转速。
The Black man walks over to one of them.
黑人走到其中一个人面前。
Can I give it a go?
我可以尝试一下吗？
Man 2 No. Apparently, it's just for us.
Man 2 不，显然，这只是为了我们。
These jokes and comments, they were coming from people who all went through something together not that long ago-- the end of apartheid, the transition to democracy, a process that was painstakingly designed to happen peacefully, to take white South Africans' worries into account and to keep them in the fold.
这些笑话和评论来自不久前共同经历过一些事情的人们——种族隔离的结束、向民主的过渡，这一过程经过精心设计，旨在和平地进行，考虑到南非白人的担忧并让他们接受。
Nobody gave up land or wealth.
没有人放弃土地或财富。
Nobody tore down institutions.
没有人拆除机构。
So much of that went unchanged.
其中大部分内容没有改变。
On Trevor Noah's podcast, his friend, comedian Eugene Khoza, says the white refugee thing has him thinking back to that time after apartheid fell and how quickly Black South Africans were asked to move to reconciliation while white South Africans still held so much power over day-to-day life.
在特雷弗·诺亚的播客中，他的朋友、喜剧演员尤金·科扎表示，白人难民的事情让他回想起种族隔离制度倒塌后的那个时代，以及南非黑人如何迅速地被要求采取和解行动，而南非白人仍然对日常生活拥有如此大的权力。
We had to make nice very, very quickly.
我们必须非常非常快地和睦相处。
As soon as that ended, you had to be nice to the school governing body for your child to enter that school.
一旦结束，您必须对学校管理机构友善，您的孩子才能进入该学校。
You had to be nice to show that you're not like that kind of a crime in an estate, in a housing community.
你必须表现得很好，表明你不像庄园里、住房社区里的那种犯罪分子。
We had to be nice.
我们必须表现得友善。
So the ones that could played nice to be in those communities.
所以那些在这些社区里表现得很好的人。
The ones that couldn't afford played nice to work in those communities.
那些买不起的人在这些社区工作得很好。
I think South Africa became a poster child for diplomacy.
我认为南非成为外交的典范。
We almost had to, as a country, put our best foot forward.
作为一个国家，我们几乎必须竭尽全力。
Everyone moves forward.
每个人都向前迈进。
That was the whole agreement of post-apartheid South Africa.
这是后种族隔离时期南非的全部协议。
The white people, who used to have all the power and now only had some of the power, would accept things and move forward.
过去拥有所有权力而现在只有部分权力的白人会接受事情并继续前进。
And Black South Africans, who used to have no power and now had a little more, would agree to forgive the architects of apartheid and just move forward.
南非黑人过去没有权力，现在有了更多权力，他们会同意原谅种族隔离的缔造者并继续前进。
Nobody looks back.
没有人回头看。
Nobody complains.
没有人抱怨。
We all just get on with building the country, together.
我们大家一起努力建设这个国家。
The white South Africans who wanted to be refugees in America, they were breaking that agreement.
那些想在美国成为难民的南非白人，他们违反了这一协议。
We're a very, very hated class in South Africa right now-- hated, hated, hated.
我们现在是南非一个非常非常令人讨厌的阶级——讨厌，讨厌，讨厌。
Sam continued what she'd been doing-- managing the Amerikaners site, preparing people, responding to questions.
萨姆继续她一直在做的事情——管理 Americaners 网站、为人员做好准备、回答问题。
But Amerikaners were a thing now for everyone, from social media to moving companies-- and not a positive thing.
但现在，从社交媒体到搬家公司，美国人已经成为每个人的一部分，但这并不是一件积极的事情。
OK.
好的。
So people are going to want to send some boxes with granny's keepsakes in it and whatever.
所以人们会想寄一些盒子，里面装着奶奶的纪念品之类的。
They might leave their furniture behind.
他们可能会留下家具。
But most families will want to take a box or two.
但大多数家庭都会想要带一两盒。
So I set out to speak to all the removals companies that can do international removals to America in South Africa.
因此，我开始与所有可以在南非进行美国国际搬家服务的搬家公司进行交谈。
Strangely enough, which actually shocked me, quite a few of them said, oh, I don't want anything to do with you refugees, put the phone down in my ear.
奇怪的是，这确实让我震惊，其中不少人说，哦，我不想和你们难民有任何关系，把电话放在我耳边。
And--
还有——
Wait.
等等。
Sam, had you experienced that before?
萨姆，你以前有过这样的经历吗？
Was that shocking to you?
这让你感到震惊吗？
Totally, yeah.
完全是的。
It's almost like we're second-class citizens now or something like that or that they don't want to be seen by the people who are staying to be supportive of the refugee program.
这几乎就像我们现在是二等公民或类似的事情，或者他们不想被留下来支持难民计划的人看到。
And those that wanted to help also didn't want their logos anywhere on publicly because they thought they would be subject to attack.
那些想要提供帮助的人也不希望他们的徽标公开出现在任何地方，因为他们认为自己会受到攻击。
So I couldn't advertise somebody's company on my website and say, hey, these guys will offer a good deal, and show a banner with their logo on it.
所以我不能在我的网站上为某人的公司做广告，然后说，嘿，这些人会提供很好的交易，并展示带有他们徽标的横幅。
So she figured out a workaround.
于是她想出了一个解决办法。
On her website, Sam put a tab called Packing Up in SA.
Sam 在她的网站上放置了一个名为“在南澳收拾行李”的选项卡。
On the righthand side of that page, I have a little form so you can put your info in as a refugee.
在该页面的右侧，我有一个小表格，以便您可以以难民身份填写您的信息。
And then there is secret people that like the refugees that are willing to help them in the background that get an email when you fill in that form.
还有一些喜欢难民的秘密人士愿意在后台帮助他们，当您填写该表格时，他们会收到一封电子邮件。
They privately quote the refugee on transporting goods.
他们私下引用难民关于运输货物的言论。
So I've got this secret info service.
所以我得到了这个秘密信息服务。
We don't charge for it at all whatsoever, but it's kind of like an underground thing.
我们根本不收取任何费用，但这有点像地下的东西。
So we've got that for all sorts of services, like financial advice for people needing to get their pension money out of the country and that kind of thing.
因此，我们为各种服务提供了这种服务，例如为需要将养老金转移到国外的人们提供财务建议等等。
We've got it for-- we're busy with selling cars now, if you're putting your property on the market.
我们已经准备好了——如果你要把你的财产放到市场上，我们现在正忙着卖汽车。
But yeah, we're not very well liked.
但是，是的，我们不太受欢迎。
So it's so ironic.
所以这真是太讽刺了。
If we weren't persecuted before, we certainly are now.
如果我们以前没有受到迫害，那么现在肯定会受到迫害。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
So it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
所以这几乎就像一个自我实现的预言。
Extend the executive order, extend the offer for refugee program, and then also spark a bit of a race war as a result.
延长行政命令，延长难民计划，然后还引发了一场种族战争。
Did you feel identified with other white people in South Africa in this way before?
您以前是否也以这种方式感受到与南非其他白人的认同？
No. No, no. This is a completely new phenomenon for all of us.
不，不，不。这对我们所有人来说都是一个全新的现象。
I don't think a group has ever been so tight-knit as this group is in this country, ever.
我认为从来没有哪个团体像这个国家的这个团体如此紧密。
In fact, I think it's akin to your MAGA on a very tiny scale.
事实上，我认为它在很小的范围内类似于你的 MAGA。
You know that feeling of those people that group together and would have TPUSA and all those sort of things going on, and they would all flock to the rallies and whatever and that vibe, is that spark of excitement?
你知道那些人聚集在一起的感觉，会有 TPUSA 和所有类似的事情发生，他们都会涌向集会等等，那种氛围，是兴奋的火花吗？
Well, we've got the same thing going on here on a much smaller scale.
好吧，我们这里也发生了同样的事情，但规模要小得多。
It's actually quite sweet.
其实还是挺甜的。
I'd been focused on whether large numbers of South Africans would be allowed to come to the US.
我一直关注的是是否会允许大量南非人来到美国。
I hadn't imagined just how much the possibility of them coming here would change their lives, even if they never left.
我没有想到他们来到这里会在多大程度上改变他们的生活，即使他们从未离开过。
I've got so many new friends, so many new friends.
我有很多新朋友，很多新朋友。
18 hours a day, seven days a week-- I live, eat, sleep, and breathe what's going on here.
每周 7 天、每天 18 小时——我生活、吃饭、睡觉、呼吸这里发生的一切。
Do you feel like it's a big part of your identity now, that you're an Amerikaner or that you're part of this group that's eligible for this program?
您是否觉得现在您是美国人，或者您是有资格参加该计划的群体的一员，这是您身份的重要组成部分？
Totally.
完全。
I'm loving it.
我很喜欢它。
I'll be honest.
我会说实话。
It's given me a newfound purpose.
它给了我一个新的目标。
I feel very honored and privileged to have made a difference.
我感到非常荣幸和荣幸能够做出改变。
It's like you take something on, and it actually works.
就像你接受了某件事，它确实有效。
A few weeks ago, seven months after the executive order, I got a text from Sam.
几周前，即行政命令发布七个月后，我收到了萨姆发来的短信。
"I can't chat to anyone in the media at the moment." I went to the Amerikaners website, and it had changed.
“目前我无法与媒体上的任何人聊天。”我访问了 Americaners 网站，发现它已经改变了。
It now said, "Amerikaners is an official referral partner for the US Refugee Admissions Program." Sam couldn't talk to me anymore because she was now officially working with the US State Department.
现在它说：“Americaners 是美国难民接纳计划的官方推荐合作伙伴。”萨姆不能再和我说话了，因为她现在正式在美国国务院工作。
Amerikaners, this group she had invented, was helping the US government identify eligible refugees to the United States.
她创建的这个群体“美国人”正在帮助美国政府识别符合资格的难民。
Sam was right, and I was wrong.
萨姆是对的，我错了。
The US government is processing refugee applicants in Pretoria right now at record speeds.
美国政府目前正在比勒陀利亚以创纪录的速度处理难民申请人。
I'm hearing people are being processed within weeks.
我听说人们将在几周内得到处理。
Everything about the way the program is structured, it's the way Sam imagined it would go.
关于程序结构方式的一切，都是 Sam 想象的那样。
To qualify, you do not need to be Afrikaner.
要获得资格，您不需要是南非荷兰语。
You have to be from a racial minority population in South Africa, i.e. everyone except Black people.
您必须来自南非的少数种族，即除黑人之外的所有人。
You do not need to provide documentation of past persecution.
您不需要提供过去迫害的文件。
The chant "kill the Boer" qualifies as credible fear of future persecution.
“杀死布尔人”的口号被认为是对未来迫害的可信恐惧。
And you do not have to flee, as other refugees do.
而且您不必像其他难民那样逃离。
You can be processed for resettlement from your home.
您可以办理从家中重新安置的手续。
I haven't talked to Sam in a while now.
我已经有一段时间没和萨姆说话了。
I'm not even sure where she is.
我什至不确定她在哪里。
Is she here or there?
她在这里还是那里？
I do know, from talking to her before, a little bit about what she pictures her life here will be like.
我确实知道，通过之前与她的交谈，我知道了一些她想象的她在这里的生活会是什么样子。
Where in the States will you go?
你会去美国哪里？
Do you know?
你知道吗？
Well, we're not sure where we would initially be relocated to, but I'm keen on North Carolina myself.
好吧，我们不确定我们最初会搬到哪里，但我本人很喜欢北卡罗来纳州。
In New York.
在纽约。
Sam Busa I don't know.
萨姆·布萨 我不知道。
I've got this penchant for mountains.
我对山有这种爱好。
And I'm thinking if I go way into western North Carolina, I'm sure, where that's the Appalachians and-- I'm thinking that'll suit.
我在想，如果我深入北卡罗来纳州西部，我确信那里就是阿巴拉契亚山脉——我想那会很合适。
So if I sell my little household goodies and my car and my whatever, I'm going to go with this tiny wallet with a few dollars in it.
因此，如果我卖掉我的小家庭用品、我的汽车和我的任何东西，我会选择这个装着几美元的小钱包。
And then we hit the ground running.
然后我们就开始行动了。
We've got to get ourselves working and doing all sorts of amazing things to earn a living when we get there.
当我们到达那里时，我们必须让自己工作并做各种令人惊奇的事情来谋生。
So we'll do that as a team, me and my boys.
所以我们将作为一个团队，我和我的孩子们来做到这一点。
A new American archetype-- I think about Sam Busa this way now.
一个新的美国原型——我现在这样看待萨姆·布萨。
And I think of her often.
我经常想起她。
Every week, every few days, the president puts out a big declaration, a broad intention of things he'd like to see in the world-- an executive order on paper straws or a rant against Tylenol, the Riviera of the Middle East.
每周、每隔几天，总统都会发表一项重大声明，表达他希望在世界上看到的事物的广泛意图——纸吸管上的行政命令或针对中东里维埃拉泰诺的咆哮。
And it becomes the job of the people who work for the president to figure out the practical details of if and how these things could actually happen.
为总统工作的人的工作就是弄清楚这些事情是否以及如何真正发生的实际细节。
But then there are also people like Sam, an ordinary person who's not in the government, but who is tireless, skilled, and paying attention, someone with the confidence to say, I think this is what you mean here, right?
但也有像萨姆这样的人，一个不在政府工作的普通人，但他孜孜不倦，技术精湛，注意力集中，有信心地说，我想这就是你的意思，对吗？
When the administration issued this executive order in February, this wasn't the plan.
当政府在二月份发布这项行政命令时，这并不是计划。
They didn't know Sam was out there.
他们不知道萨姆在那里。
She didn't know they were going to do this.
她不知道他们会这么做。
But once the opportunity existed, there was Sam, willing to work with what was there to make this a reality, to turn it into a win.
但一旦机会出现，萨姆就愿意尽一切努力使这一切成为现实，将其转化为胜利。
Chana Joffe-Walt is one of the producers of our show.
查纳·乔夫·沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 是我们节目的制片人之一。
Nancy Updike edited her story.
南希·厄普代克编辑了她的故事。
Just this week, the Trump administration published its official number of how many refugees the United States is going to take in the next year.
就在本周，特朗普政府公布了美国明年将接收多少难民的官方数据。
The number is 7,500, a record low.
这个数字是7,500，创历史新低。
And usually, the number is for people from all over the world.
通常，这个数字适用于来自世界各地的人。
This year, it'll mostly just be South Africans.
今年，主要是南非人。
Our program was produced today by Nancy Updike, Diane Wu, and Chana Joffe-Walt.
今天我们的节目由 Nancy Updike、Diane Wu 和 Chana Joffe-Walt 制作。
The people who put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Suzanne Gaber, Sophie Gill, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, and Julie Whitaker.
今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Suzanne Gaber、Sophie Gill、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala 和 Julie Whitaker。
Our Managing Editor's Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our Senior Editor's David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our Executive Editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是埃马努埃莱·贝里。
Special thanks today to Adrian Allman, Angel Heard, Laynasia Crew, Diundra Norman, Jon Nelson, Sandile Swane, Timothy Young and Global Refuge, Chris George, Brian Kahn, Sara Joffe, and Sherrilyn Ifill.
今天特别感谢 Adrian Allman、Angel Heard、Laynasia Crew、Diundra Norman、Jon Nelson、Sandile Swane、Timothy Young 和 Global Refuge、Chris George、Brian Kahn、Sara Joffe 和 Sherrilyn Ifill。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
A reminder that if you like our show, if you listen to us a lot, please consider signing up as a This American Life Partner.
提醒您，如果您喜欢我们的节目，如果您经常听我们的节目，请考虑注册成为《This American Life》合作伙伴。
Do it for the stuff you get, or do it simply because you want us to be able to keep making the show.
这样做是为了你得到的东西，或者只是因为你希望我们能够继续制作节目。
Join at thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
加入 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
Thanks this week to Life Partners Roland Moore, Mark Kim, Christine Woodhouse, and Ross Boucher.
本周感谢生活伙伴罗兰·摩尔、马克·金、克里斯汀·伍德豪斯和罗斯·鲍彻。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who, for some reason, always gets lots of questions from people this time of year about trick or treating.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 先生，出于某种原因，每年这个时候他总是会收到人们提出的很多有关“不给糖就捣蛋”的问题。
I'm 56.
我56岁了。
Aren't I too old?
我是不是太老了？
Or am I allowed to bring my dogs?
或者我可以带我的狗吗？
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。