871: The Thing About Things - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #871 | October 24, 2025 871: The Thing About Things Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 871 集 | 2025 年 10 月 24 日 871：关于事物的事情 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass When Nunzio first saw the bike, he knew.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 当 Nunzio 第一次看到这辆自行车时，他就知道了。
It was a little Honda motorcycle from 1966, with an engine so small that, officially, I think you're supposed to call it a scooter.
这是一辆 1966 年生产的小型本田摩托车，发动机很小，我认为官方应该称其为踏板车。
It was in a neighbor's yard.
那是在邻居的院子里。
He was 13.
他13岁。
I absolutely remember it.
我绝对记得它。
Yeah, it was against the shed.
是的，它是对着棚子的。
Grass was growing all over it.
上面长满了青草。
It was red, but they had not taken care of it.
它是红色的，但他们没有处理它。
And somebody put flat black paint all over the thing.
有人在整个东西上涂上了黑色的油漆。
Tires were flat.
轮胎没气了。
There was a couple of pieces missing from it.
里面少了几块。
It's funny.
很有趣。
So when you see it, it's kind of a wreck of a bike.
所以当你看到它时，它就像是一辆自行车的残骸。
Yeah.
是的。
It's a wreck of a bike with a dream of, I'm going to be the cool kid in the neighborhood with my friends and buddies.
这是一辆破烂的自行车，我的梦想是，我要和我的朋友和伙伴们一起成为附近的酷孩子。
His plan was he wanted to ride it around the railroad tracks with his buddies.
他的计划是和他的伙伴们一起骑着它沿着铁轨行驶。
They would hang out there or in the woods with their bicycles, get cigarettes from the older kids or a beer now and then.
他们会骑着自行车在那里或树林里闲逛，时不时地从大孩子那里得到香烟或啤酒。
This was West Albany, New York, 1975.
这是 1975 年纽约西奥尔巴尼。
When Nunzio described this to me, the only thing I could picture was Stranger Things or the film Stand By Me.
当农齐奥向我描述这一点时，我唯一能想到的就是《怪奇物语》或电影《伴我同行》。
And then a friend of his brought that film up to describe what it was like.
然后他的一个朋友提起那部电影来描述它的感觉。
Anyway, so Nunzio pays this neighbor $50 cash with money he earned mowing lawns.
不管怎样，农齐奥用他修剪草坪赚来的钱付给这位邻居 50 美元现金。
Nunzio wasn't great at school, but even at 13, he had an unusual talent for fixing things and for engines.
农齐奥在学校的表现并不出色，但即使在 13 岁的时候，他在修理东西和制造引擎方面也有着非凡的天赋。
Like, he fixed his own lawn mower engine at that age.
就像，他在那个年纪修理了自己的割草机发动机。
And he was excited to get the scooter home and to work on it in this workshop under his parents' porch.
他很高兴能把踏板车带回家，并在父母门廊下的工作室里进行工作。
When he did, he discovered--
当他这么做的时候，他发现——
OK, so the engine was seized, come to find out.
好的，所以发动机被扣押了，快来一探究竟。
It was missing the overhead valve assembly.
它缺少顶置阀门组件。
Also, holes in the gas tank.
另外，油箱上也有洞。
Carburetor needed rebuilding.
化油器需要重建。
Battery was shot.
电池被击中。
So now, I kind of realize, I couldn't realistically cut enough lawns to get enough parts to get it running at that age.
所以现在，我意识到，我实际上无法砍伐足够的草坪来获得足够的零件来让它在那个年龄运行。
OK, so you're 13.
好吧，那么你就13岁了。
You realize this is going to be a big job.
你意识到这将是一项艰巨的工作。
Do you just put it aside?
你就把它放在一边吗？
I set it aside.
我把它放在一边。
And it sat there for 24 years.
它在那里呆了 24 年。
During that near-quarter century, it laid in pieces all over the ground under this porch, he says.
他说，在近四分之一个世纪的时间里，它在门廊下的地面上到处都是碎片。
But he didn't forget it.
但他没有忘记。
He'd think about it now and then, always intended to get back to the scooter and do the rebuild that he couldn't afford as a kid.
他时不时地会考虑这个问题，总是想回到摩托车上，进行他小时候无力承担的重建工作。
It ended up taking him on a much more circuitous route than he could have imagined.
最终他走上了一条比他想象的更加迂回的道路。
Basically, what happened is that in 1999, Nunzio's parents sold the house, and he collected all the parts from under the porch and hauled them to where he now lived with his wife and his two young kids at the time, laid the stuff out in his garage, and finally got to work.
基本上，发生的事情是，1999 年，Nunzio 的父母卖掉了房子，他从门廊下收集了所有零件，并将它们拖到他现在与妻子和两个年幼的孩子住的地方，把东西放在车库里，最后开始工作。
He started searching for scooter parts.
他开始寻找踏板车零件。
This was 1999, before everything was on the internet, so it took some doing.
那是 1999 年，一切都在互联网上之前，所以需要做一些事情。
Says he spent about a year piecing the thing together, finally got the engine barely running, realized he needed somebody to do a proper rebuild of the engine.
说他花了大约一年的时间把东西拼凑起来，终于让发动机勉强运转，意识到他需要有人对发动机进行适当的重建。
Found a shop in Schenectady, put the engine in a cardboard box, dropped it off.
在斯克内克塔迪找到一家商店，将发动机放入纸板箱中，然后将其放下。
The guy said, great, give me four or five weeks.
那家伙说，太好了，给我四五个星期吧。
I'll have it for you, good as new.
我会给你它，就像新的一样。
I called him, like, a month later.
一个月后我给他打了电话。
I'm getting to it.
我正在着手解决。
Things have been busy at the shop.
店里的事情一直很忙。
Don't worry about it.
别担心。
I promise you we'll get to it.
我向你保证我们会成功的。
I call back in, like, two or three weeks.
我大约两三周后会回电话。
Hey, I got it all apart.
嘿，我把一切都拆开了。
I need the manual.
我需要手册。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
It took me a few weeks to get it.
我花了几个星期才拿到它。
So another three weeks go by.
又三个星期过去了。
And I deliver it up there.
我把它送到那里。
Said, here you go.
说，给你。
Hey, when can I get it?
嘿嘿，什么时候可以拿到呢？
Hey, it's going to take us a few weeks.
嘿，这需要我们几个星期的时间。
We got it all apart.
我们把一切都分开了。
We're working on it.
我们正在努力。
Looking great.
看起来很棒。
More months pass.
又过了几个月。
Finally, six or seven months in, Nunzio says he calls the shop, and the phone is disconnected.
最后，六七个月后，农齐奥说他给商店打电话，但电话已关机。
He drives there.
他开车去那里。
Seems to be permanently closed.
看来要永久关闭了。
Goes to the literal phone book.
转到字面电话簿。
Remember?
记住？
1999.
1999 年。
Calls people with the guy's last name, finds two relatives, he says, who say they haven't seen him.
他说，给跟他姓的人打电话，找到了两个亲戚，但他们说没有见过他。
He knows he should just buy another engine, either a new engine or another old engine from the 1960s from the same model bike, but just can't bring himself to do it.
他知道他应该购买另一台发动机，要么是新发动机，要么是同一型号自行车的 20 世纪 60 年代的旧发动机，但就是无法让自己这么做。
None of those choices were acceptable to me.
这些选择都不为我所接受。
The most important thing here, I would say, for me, was keeping it all original, to have the exact bike when I took it at 13 still today.
我想说，对我来说，这里最重要的事情就是保持一切原创，拥有与我今天 13 点骑车时一模一样的自行车。
Why?
为什么？
Nunzio Because it was really a piece of time of me with my friends at that age.
农齐奥 因为那确实是我那个年纪和朋友们一起度过的一段时光。
Years go by.
岁月流逝。
He kind of gives up on this engineless, hopeless bike.
他有点放弃了这辆没有引擎、毫无希望的自行车。
Finally one Sunday night, the kids are in bed.
终于在一个周日晚上，孩子们上床睡觉了。
He goes online and searches for the name of the guy he left the engine with and learns, no wonder he can't find him.
他上网搜索与他留下引擎的那个人的名字并了解到，难怪他找不到他。
The guy is locked up, convicted on an illegal dumping charge.
该男子因非法倾倒垃圾罪被关押。
Nunzio figures out where he's doing time and visits him the very next day.
农齐奥弄清楚了他在哪里度过的时间，并在第二天拜访了他。
So they bring you in there.
所以他们带你进去。
It's just like the movies.
就像电影一样。
You're sitting at this table, and there's a piece of glass 10 inches between the two.
你坐在这张桌子旁，两张桌子之间有一块 10 英寸的玻璃。
You're not allowed to put your hands over the glass.
不准将手放在玻璃上。
And he comes out, and he sits at the table.
他出来了，坐在桌边。
And the first question he says to me is, do I know you?
他对我说的第一个问题是，我认识你吗？
And I said, yes, I gave you my scooter engine years ago, and I want it back.
我说，是的，几年前我把我的踏板车发动机给了你，我想把它拿回来。
OK, probably not the answer the guy was expecting.
好吧，这可能不是那个人期待的答案。
And he said to me, you tracked me down to prison for a scooter engine?
他对我说，你为了一辆摩托车发动机而追踪我进监狱？
I said, yes.
我说，是的。
I had it since 13, and it's important to me.
我从 13 岁起就拥有它，它对我来说很重要。
I want to get it running.
我想让它运行起来。
He goes, yeah, I have it.
他说，是的，我有。
And he was extremely helpful, really nice.
他非常乐于助人，非常友善。
And he gave me the address.
然后他给了我地址。
And he said to me, you tell him I sent you there.
他对我说，你告诉他是我派你去那里的。
You tell him you visited me in jail.
你告诉他你去监狱探望了我。
And you tell him to give that engine right back to you.
然后你告诉他把那台引擎还给你。
They got along so well, Nunzio ended up staying and chatting, he says, for close to an hour.
他们相处得很好，农齐奥最后留下来聊天，他说，聊了近一个小时。
And when he went and retrieved the engine, it was still in the original cardboard box he'd left it in.
当他去取回发动机时，它仍然在他原来的纸板箱里。
For everything he'd been told on the phone that they were working on it, it's nearly done, just a little more, he saw nobody had ever touched it.
尽管他在电话中被告知他们正在处理一切，但它已经快完成了，只是还有一点点，他发现还没有人碰过它。
I found and talked to the guy that Nunzio remembers, the repair shop owner.
我找到了农齐奥记忆中的维修店老板并与之交谈。
And for the record, he remembers none of these events from 20 years ago.
郑重声明，他对 20 年前的这些事件一无所知。
And at first, he insisted that none of it ever possibly could have happened, but then talked a little more.
起初，他坚称这一切都不可能发生，但后来又多说了一点。
He relented a little and said, maybe it did.
他稍微缓和了一些，说，也许是这样。
Nunzio told me that once he got the scooter engine back, he took a year meticulously rebuilding it himself to bring the whole bike back to cherry condition.
农齐奥告诉我，当他拿回踏板车发动机后，他自己花了一年时间精心修复它，使整辆自行车恢复到正常状态。
This project he decided to take on in 1975 he finally finished three decades later.
他于 1975 年决定承担这个项目，三十年后终于完成了。
So much work.
这么多工作。
I had to ask--
我不得不问——
It's been 20 years.
已经20年了。
How many times do you think you've ridden it in 20 years?
您认为 20 年来您骑过多少次？
Oh.
哦。
I mean, 30?
我是说，30？
40?
40？
Ira Glass That doesn't sound like a lot.
Ira Glass：这听起来并不多。
No, it's not.
不，不是。
Ira Glass The point of the bike was not riding it.
Ira Glass 自行车的重点不在于骑它。
Some objects have a power over us that's special.
有些物体对我们有一种特殊的力量。
They make us do crazy stuff, stuff we probably wouldn't do for another person, for years sometimes.
它们让我们做出一些疯狂的事情，有时我们可能多年都不会为别人做这些事情。
Today on our show, we have stories of people caught in that kind of servile relationship with objects that they supposedly own.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了人们与他们所谓拥有的物品陷入这种奴役关系的故事。
But in each of these stories, as you'll hear, the objects seem to be the ones calling the shots.
但正如您将听到的那样，在每个故事中，物体似乎都是发号施令的人。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Act One, A Rock and a Hard Place.
第一幕，进退两难。
So let's start today with an object that a guy got a long time ago that first meant one thing to him, and then it came to mean something very different and much more important.
因此，今天让我们从一个人很久以前得到的一件物品开始，这件物品最初对他来说意味着一件事，然后它意味着一些非常不同且更重要的东西。
Aviva DeKornfeld talked to the guy and has this story.
Aviva DeKornfeld 与这个人交谈并讲述了这个故事。
When Ted was six years old, his mom had just remarried, and his new dad had this idea for all of them to go on their first big trip as a family, a road trip.
泰德六岁时，他的妈妈刚刚再婚，他的新爸爸有了一个想法，让他们一家人进行第一次大旅行，一次公路旅行。
He thought it would be cool to take the family on a trip out west.
他认为带家人去西部旅行会很酷。
And we stopped at every attraction.
我们在每个景点都停下来。
We went to the Painted Desert, the Grand Canyon.
我们去了彩绘沙漠、大峡谷。
And we also went to see the crater in Arizona.
我们还去看了亚利桑那州的火山口。
Ah, cool.
啊，酷。
Ted So it was a huge time for us.
特德 所以这对我们来说是一段美好的时光。
I mean, for me personally, it was like the first experience I remember going anywhere.
我的意思是，就我个人而言，这就像我记得第一次去任何地方的经历。
The important stop for our story?
我们故事的重要一站？
The Petrified Forest National Park.
石化林国家公园。
I remember driving through the forest.
我记得开车穿过森林。
And I just-- I don't know.
我只是——我不知道。
I was that age where I flipped out over everything.
我在那个年纪，对一切事情都发脾气。
Petrified wood is kind of worth flipping out over.
硅化木值得一试。
It's crazy to look at because it looks like a tree.
看起来很疯狂，因为它看起来像一棵树。
You can see the texture of the bark and the grain of the wood and the tree rings, but it's a rock.
你可以看到树皮的纹理、木纹和年轮，但它是一块岩石。
Plus, in the process of becoming a rock over millions of years, the wood gets this rainbow coloring from all the mineral deposits.
另外，在数百万年成为岩石的过程中，木材从所有矿藏中获得了彩虹色。
So it looks kind of magical.
所以它看起来有点神奇。
I remember seeing an area that we went to where there were a bunch of different trees laying on the ground, like all in a row.
我记得看到我们去过的一个地方，地上有一堆不同的树，就像排成一排。
And I remember begging my dad, please, you know?
我记得我求过我爸爸，求你了，你知道吗？
And so I guess I bugged my dad enough that he finally let me pick a piece.
所以我想我已经够烦我爸爸了，他终于让我选了一块。
I got to pick it.
我得选它。
And of course, I picked a big chunk.
当然，我选了一大块。
Like the size of a baseball?
就像棒球大小一样？
Is that what we're talking about?
这就是我们所说的吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Probably more like the size of a football.
可能更像足球的大小。
Oh.
哦。
Really big.
真的很大。
Ted Yeah, yeah.
特德 是的，是的。
It's pretty hefty.
它相当重。
And I remember my dad pulling it out of the spot it was in, you know?
我记得我爸爸把它从原来的地方拉出来，你知道吗？
So now that tree had a chunk missing.
所以现在那棵树少了一块。
Ted's dad was the kind of guy who would bend the rules for his kids.
特德的父亲是那种会为孩子打破规则的人。
So I remember him saying, OK, well, we're going to put it in the trunk, but don't say anything when we go through the gate, you know?
所以我记得他说，好吧，好吧，我们要把它放在行李箱里，但是当我们穿过大门时不要说什么，你知道吗？
'Cause you knew you weren't allowed to take it.
因为你知道你不被允许接受它。
Yeah.
是的。
We hid it in the trunk, under some clothes.
我们把它藏在行李箱里，藏在衣服下面。
I remember when we got to the hotel that night, we unwrapped it and brought it into the hotel room.
我记得那天晚上我们到了酒店，就把它拆开，带到了酒店房间。
I mean, he didn't have to do that, but he made a big deal out of it.
我的意思是，他本来不必这样做，但他却小题大做了。
And, yeah, I remember my mom writing a postcard to my aunt saying that Teddy-- that's what they called me, Teddy.
是的，我记得我妈妈给我姨妈写了一张明信片，上面写着泰迪——他们就是这么称呼我的，泰迪。
Teddy got a piece of petrified wood from the forest.
泰迪从森林里得到了一块硅化木。
And then, after that, when we got home, I really didn't think about it much.
然后，在那之后，当我们回到家时，我真的没有想太多。
My daughter said, hey, she's a senior in high school.
我女儿说，嘿，她是高中生。
She comes in the kitchen, and she says, hey, Dad, that rock out in the garden, is that a petrified wood?
她走进厨房，说，嘿，爸爸，花园里的那块石头是石化木吗？
I said, yeah.
我说，是的。
And she said, where did you get that?
她说，你从哪里得到的？
And I said, I told her the story.
我说，我告诉她这个故事。
When I was a kid, we went to the Petrified Forest, and I took it.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我们去了石化森林，我就去了。
She says, that's what I thought.
她说，我也是这么想的。
She says, I found this interesting article online, and it says that people who have taken petrified wood are cursed, which I-- a light bulb went off.
她说，我在网上发现了这篇有趣的文章，上面说服用硅化木的人会受到诅咒，我——一个灯泡熄灭了。
I was like, this could be it.
我当时想，可能就是这样了。
The idea that this petrified wood may have cursed him?
难道这块木化石可能诅咒了他？
This made a lot of sense to Ted because he thought he'd been cursed for years.
这对特德来说很有意义，因为他认为自己多年来一直受到诅咒。
For as long as he could remember, he'd had very bad luck, no matter where he was or what he did.
从他记事起，无论他在哪里，无论他做了什么，他的运气都很糟糕。
Couldn't catch a break.
无法休息。
Could not catch a break.
无法休息。
The bad luck found him when he was at home.
当他在家时，厄运就降临到了他身上。
We had a house fire when my daughter was two years old.
我女儿两岁时，我们的房子着火了。
When she was three years old, the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over our city in Mississippi and put 6 feet of water in our house.
当她三岁的时候，卡特里娜飓风的风眼掠过我们密西西比州的城市，给我们的房子带来了 6 英尺的积水。
I got a bad infection in El Salvador and lost my hearing in one side.
我在萨尔瓦多感染严重，一侧听力丧失。
When Ted went hunting for bird nests with his friends--
当特德和他的朋友们去寻找鸟巢时——
We're in the middle of the woods.
我们在树林中央。
I fell on a broken root beer bottle.
我摔倒在一个破损的根汁啤酒瓶上。
It was like there was nothing else around.
就好像周围没有其他东西一样。
And I cut my hand open.
我把我的手割开了。
I still have a scar.
我还有疤痕。
There's more.
还有更多。
Ted I hit a deer driving through San Antonio full-on and totaled my car.
特德 我在圣安东尼奥开车时猛烈撞到了一头鹿，结果我的车报废了。
Oh, and the bad luck came for his love life, too.
哦，他的爱情生活也遭遇了厄运。
His marriage started falling apart.
他的婚姻开始破裂。
Are there other things?
还有其他事情吗？
Ted Yeah, of course.
特德 是的，当然。
I can give you 6, 10, 12 examples, whatever you want.
我可以给你 6、10、12 个例子，无论你想要什么。
It's something that was with me always.
它一直伴随着我。
It followed me everywhere.
它到处跟着我。
It was a scourge on my life.
这对我的生活来说是一个祸害。
It was a shadow that was always with me.
那是一个一直伴随着我的影子。
If something bad could happen, it would happen.
如果有什么不好的事情可能发生，它就会发生。
Is it possible that that's just stuff that happened to you and not that you were cursed?
难道这只是发生在你身上的事情，而不是你被诅咒了？
I think no. No. I was cursed, 100%.
我认为不。不，我100%被诅咒了。
You can ask my friends and family.
你可以问问我的朋友和家人。
It was an ongoing joke, you know?
这是一个持续不断的笑话，你知道吗？
You got to call it like you see it.
你必须像你看到的那样称呼它。
I'm a realist.
我是一个现实主义者。
Seeing is believing.
眼见为实。
So if you see a vase on the table, there's a vase on the table.
所以，如果你看到桌子上有一个花瓶，那就是桌子上有一个花瓶。
Right?
正确的？
I was cursed.
我被诅咒了。
I saw it.
我看到了。
So for decades, Ted lived in fear of the next bad thing happening.
因此，几十年来，特德一直生活在对下一次坏事发生的恐惧之中。
And then his daughter told him about that article she'd found.
然后他的女儿告诉他她发现的那篇文章。
I couldn't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
I read the article.
我读了这篇文章。
I was like, holy cow, this could be it, you know?
我当时想，天哪，可能就是这样了，你知道吗？
And I read the story, and I was like, oh my God, I didn't realize that I did such a bad thing.
我读了这个故事，我当时想，天哪，我没有意识到我做了这么坏的事。
Well, you were so little.
嗯，那时你还太小了。
Ted Yeah, I was real little.
特德 是的，我当时还很小。
But I guess that doesn't matter when it comes to something like a curse, right?
但我想对于诅咒之类的事情来说这并不重要，对吧？
I mean, there's no age limit on it.
我的意思是，这没有年龄限制。
It's unclear where exactly this idea that petrified rocks curse people came from.
目前还不清楚石化岩石诅咒人类的想法到底从何而来。
I tried to run it down, but no one knows.
我试图把它弄下来，但没有人知道。
And it didn't matter to Ted anyway.
无论如何，这对特德来说并不重要。
All he knew was that he was cursed, and he needed to get that wood back to the park as soon as possible.
他只知道自己被诅咒了，他需要尽快把木头带回公园。
Handily, he happened to be working at the post office at the time.
很巧的是，他当时正好在邮局工作。
So the next day, he went to work and grabbed a priority box, flat rate because the rock was so heavy.
所以第二天，他去上班，拿了一个优先盒子，统一费率，因为岩石太重了。
Yeah, my daughter told me, hey, you should write a letter.
是的，我女儿告诉我，嘿，你应该写一封信。
You should apologize for it.
你应该为此道歉。
Whatever you have to do, you have to end your curse.
无论你必须做什么，你都必须结束你的诅咒。
So I said, I will.
所以我说，我会的。
I'll write the letter, you know?
我会写这封信，你知道吗？
Ted carefully swaddled the petrified wood in bubble wrap to protect it and placed it in a box, along with his letter.
特德小心翼翼地将石化木包裹在泡沫包装中以保护它，并将其与他的信一起放入盒子中。
It cost him $22 to ship, a steal if it breaks the curse.
他的运费是 22 美元，如果能打破诅咒的话，这可是一笔超值的买卖。
The Petrified Forest National Park has a long history with rock thieves like Ted.
石化森林国家公园与泰德这样的石贼有着悠久的历史。
In fact, that's why they became a national park in the first place.
事实上，这就是他们最初成为国家公园的原因。
Local residents worried about the area being totally stripped and petitioned to turn the land into a park to protect it.
当地居民担心该地区被完全剥夺，并请愿将这片土地变成公园以保护它。
Years ago, there was a study that found they could be losing wood at a rate of 12 tons per year.
几年前，有一项研究发现他们每年会损失 12 吨木材。
And so, for decades, the park tried all kinds of tactics to discourage theft-- vehicle inspections, fines, supervised tours, preemptively gifting people a little piece of wood bought from private land near the park.
因此，几十年来，公园尝试了各种策略来阻止盗窃——车辆检查、罚款、监督游览、抢先向人们赠送从公园附近私人土地上购买的一小块木头。
You might think that park rangers invented the curse as a deterrent, but no.
您可能认为公园管理员发明诅咒是为了起到威慑作用，但事实并非如此。
But somehow, word spread, making Ted just one of hundreds of people who have sent pieces of petrified wood back to the park.
但不知何故，消息传开了，特德成为数百名将木化石送回公园的人之一。
Matt Smith, the ranger in charge of processing the returned rocks, says that a rock arrives roughly once a week, often with a letter attached.
负责处理返回岩石的护林员马特·史密斯 (Matt Smith) 表示，岩石大约每周到达一次，通常会附上一封信。
There are now over a thousand letters in their archive.
他们的档案里现在有一千多封信。
It seemed strange to me.
我觉得很奇怪。
So many people all came to believe their bad luck came from a rock and felt compelled not just to return the rock, but to apologize and explain themselves?
这么多人都开始相信他们的厄运来自于一块石头，并且觉得不仅要归还石头，还要道歉并解释自己？
I wanted to read the letters for myself, so I flew out to the park in Arizona.
我想亲自读一下这些信，所以我飞到了亚利桑那州的公园。
Ranger Matt set me up with a desk and plopped down two big boxes stuffed with letters.
游骑兵马特给我准备了一张桌子，然后放下两个装满信件的大盒子。
I spent a full day sifting through them.
我花了一整天的时间来筛选它们。
The first letter the park ever received was from a guy in India in 1935.
公园收到的第一封信是 1935 年来自印度的一个人写的。
From there, the letters are organized by year, mostly handwritten.
从那时起，这些信件按年份排列，大部分是手写的。
The letters have a kind of frenzied urgency to them, like this one-- "Please release me.
这些信对他们来说有一种疯狂的紧迫感，就像这封信一样——“请释放我。
My life is hell," or this one-- which is oddly accusatory, considering they're the thief-- "You should tell people these are cursed before people take them.
我的生活就是地狱，”或者这个——考虑到他们是小偷，这是一种奇怪的指责——“你应该在人们拿走它们之前告诉人们这些是被诅咒的。
Sorry."
抱歉。”
But lots of people go to great lengths to detail their woes, pages and pages that feel more like a journal entry than federal mail.
但很多人不遗余力地详细描述他们的困境，一页又一页，感觉更像是日记条目，而不是联邦邮件。
The list of hardships attributed to the rocks are wide-ranging, including, but not limited to, layoffs, car accidents, robberies, cancer, divorce.
岩石造成的困难范围很广，包括但不限于裁员、车祸、抢劫、癌症、离婚。
A lot of beloved family dogs died.
许多心爱的家养狗都死了。
One guy had a failed vasectomy.
一名男子的输精管结扎术失败了。
Another fell through the ceiling of his house.
另一个从他家的天花板掉下来。
And one person's fiancé cheated on them with a Norwegian woman.
其中一个人的未婚夫与一名挪威女子出轨。
There are a lot of mentions of idiot husbands and apologies on their behalf and tons of people who didn't even take the rocks themselves, but somehow looked at their lives and concluded that everything bad happened because of the rocks their parents or grandparents had stolen, like a weird, petrified version of inherited trauma.
有很多人提到白痴丈夫并代表他们道歉，还有很多人自己甚至没有拿走石头，但不知何故审视了自己的生活并得出结论，一切不好的事情都是因为他们的父母或祖父母偷了石头而发生的，就像遗传性创伤的怪异、石化版本。
One woman sent back a rock with a letter in the hopes of restoring her luck and then promptly sent another letter after she'd realized she'd sent in the wrong rock.
一位女士寄回了一块石头和一封信，希望能恢复她的好运，然后在她意识到自己寄错了石头后，立即又寄出了另一封信。
In some letters, desperate people describe the ways in which their lives have been horrifically derailed.
在一些信件中，绝望的人们描述了他们的生活是如何被可怕地脱轨的。
And then, at the bottom of the letter, a park ranger who's examined the rock has written a little note in pencil-- "Wood not from park." Brutal.
然后，在信的底部，一位检查过岩石的公园管理员用铅笔写了一张小纸条——“木材不是来自公园的。”野蛮。
What's striking about reading so many of these letters back to back is how terrible and ordinary the pain they're recounting is.
连续阅读这么多封信的惊人之处在于，他们所讲述的痛苦是多么可怕和普通。
They're describing all the awful parts of life, the parts you know intellectually are on the table, but still feel shocking when they happen to you.
它们描述了生活中所有可怕的部分，那些你理智上知道的部分，但当它们发生在你身上时仍然感到震惊。
I can imagine what a relief it could be to discover you'd been cursed.
我可以想象，当发现你被诅咒时，你会多么如释重负。
Because how nice would it be to get an explanation for why it's all so difficult?
因为如果能得到一个解释为什么这一切如此困难该有多好？
Plus, it means you just might have the power to undo it.
另外，这意味着您可能有能力撤消它。
I talked to a few different rangers about this phenomenon, people stealing and returning their rocks.
我和几个不同的护林员谈论了这种现象，人们偷窃并归还他们的岩石。
And they were all surprisingly blasé about the whole thing.
令人惊讶的是，他们对整件事都表现得漠不关心。
They don't want people to steal rocks, obviously, but it turns out the amount they're losing every year really isn't that big of a deal.
显然，他们不希望人们偷石头，但事实证明，他们每年损失的金额确实没什么大不了的。
Over time, they figured out that they're not actually losing 12 tons of wood per year.
随着时间的推移，他们发现实际上每年并没有损失 12 吨木材。
Plus, people returning rocks?
另外，人们归还石头？
That's just more work for them.
这对他们来说只是更多的工作。
The rangers can't determine where exactly in the park the rocks came from, so all the returned rocks just get tossed into a pile.
护林员无法确定这些岩石到底来自公园的何处，因此所有返回的岩石都被扔进一堆。
Ranger Matt took me to see it.
游骑兵马特带我去看了。
It's big, maybe 15 feet wide, a few feet tall, with rocks of all sizes.
它很大，大概有15英尺宽，几英尺高，有各种大小的岩石。
How many individual rocks do you think are in this pile?
你认为这堆石头中有多少块？
No idea.
不知道。
I guess if I had-- I don't know-- 20,000, 50,000, something like that.
我想如果我有——我不知道——20,000、50,000，类似的东西。
People are crazy.
人们都疯了。
If I were going to steal a rock, I would take that one.
如果我要偷一块石头，我就会拿那块。
The little pretty ones.
那些小漂亮的。
Aviva DeKornfeld I won't, though, because it's really not a good time for me to be cursed.
Aviva DeKornfeld：不过我不会，因为现在确实不是我被诅咒的好时机。
Yeah.
是的。
Have you ever gotten a letter from someone after they returned the rock saying that the bad luck and the curse had been lifted?
你有没有收到过有人在归还石头后写来的信，说厄运和诅咒已经解除了？
No. No, I never have.
不，不，我从来没有。
God, I never even thought of that.
天啊，我从来没想过这一点。
No, nobody's written back and been like, hey, by the way, everything's better now.
不，没有人回信说，嘿，顺便说一句，现在一切都好多了。
I mean, if it is for them, I love that.
我的意思是，如果是为了他们，我喜欢这样。
I wanted to ask, did anything change after you sent the rock back?
我想问一下，你把石头送回来之后，有什么变化吗？
I got so lucky that I can't even talk about it.
我太幸运了，我什至无法谈论它。
Actually, he could.
事实上，他可以。
Couldn't resist.
无法抗拒。
After Ted returned the rock, he came into a lot of money unexpectedly.
特德归还石头后，意外地赚了很多钱。
He also stumbled into a great, below-market-rate deal on a house.
他还偶然以低于市场价格的价格购买了一套房子。
He did get divorced, but that, too, felt like good luck.
他确实离婚了，但这也让人感觉很幸运。
Ted doesn't know for sure if returning the rock is what changed his luck because that was actually just one part of a much broader reckoning for him.
泰德不确定归还石头是否会改变他的运气，因为这实际上只是他更广泛的清算的一部分。
But whatever it was, he says it worked.
但无论是什么，他说它有效。
These days, his luck has turned around so much that his whole job is based on having good luck.
这些天，他的运气好转，他的所有工作都是建立在运气好的基础上的。
He goes to estate sales and flea markets looking for treasures and sells them online.
他去房地产销售和跳蚤市场寻找宝藏并在网上出售。
Like this one time, he was poking around at a sale in an old house and found an old cool-looking duck call.
就像有一次，他在一栋老房子的拍卖中闲逛，发现了一只看起来很酷的旧鸭子叫声。
You know, for hunting, a duck call?
你知道，打猎时，鸭子叫声吗？
You know, [QUACKS], you blow into it.
你知道，[嘎嘎声]，你吹进去了。
He bought it for $9 and posted it to a hunting Facebook group.
他花了 9 美元买下了它，并将其发布到 Facebook 的一个狩猎群组上。
Within an hour, he got a message from a guy who said, call me right away.
一个小时内，他收到一个人发来的消息，说“立即给我打电话”。
So Ted did.
特德就是这么做的。
He said, this is a very special duck call.
他说，这是一种非常特别的鸭子叫声。
I'm a collector.
我是一个收藏家。
And he said, I'm willing to give you $5,000.
他说，我愿意给你5000美元。
Oh, my God.
我的天啊。
You started this story cursed and now you're just riding your good luck.
你开始这个故事的时候就受到了诅咒，现在你只能靠运气了。
These days, Ted feels better in all kinds of ways, like things have been put right in his life, like the rock, which is back where it belongs.
这些天，特德在各方面都感觉好多了，就像他生活中的一切都被纠正了，就像岩石回到了它所属的地方一样。
He'd felt guilty about taking it.
他对接受它感到内疚。
That's true for a lot of people.
对于很多人来说都是如此。
The vast majority of the hundreds of letters I read mentioned guilt.
我读到的数百封信中，绝大多数都提到了内疚。
Most people felt bad about having done the wrong thing and just wanted to try and make it right.
大多数人都会因为做错事而感到难过，只是想尝试改正。
A lot of the letters come from people at the end of their lives, doing a little psychic housekeeping before they go.
很多信件都是临终之人写来的，他们在临终前做了一些心灵上的整理工作。
Some of the letters are so simple.
有些字母是如此简单。
Like, what else can I say?
比如说，我还能说什么？
I was wrong, and I'm sorry.
我错了，我很抱歉。
Or, I don't regret much, but I regret taking this rock.
或者说，我并不后悔，只是后悔拿走了这块石头。
I found Ted's letter in the archive, too, handwritten.
我还在档案中找到了特德的手写信。
He says, "I pray that the return will deem forgiveness from God, the Petrified Forest National Park, and the people of the United States of America." And he apologizes.
他说：“我祈祷这次回归将被视为上帝、石化森林国家公园和美利坚合众国人民的宽恕。”他道歉了。
That big pile of returned rocks, the rangers have a name for it.
那一大堆返回的岩石，护林员们给它起了个名字。
It's called the Conscience Pile, which I find kind of moving.
它被称为“良心堆”，我觉得它有点令人感动。
We make mistakes, and so often, our attempts to make things right fall short.
我们会犯错误，而我们试图纠正错误的努力常常会失败。
But I think if you're the kind of person who takes the time to mail a rock back to a national park years after taking it, you're probably on the right track.
但我认为，如果你是那种在拿走石头多年后花时间将其寄回国家公园的人，那么你可能走在正确的道路上。
Aviva DeKornfeld is one of the producers of our program.
Aviva DeKornfeld 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Thanks to Ryan Thompson, who noticed some of the letters on display on a trip to the park and then made a book of the letters called Bad Luck, Hot Rocks.
感谢瑞安·汤普森（Ryan Thompson），他在去公园旅行时注意到了展示的一些字母，然后将这些字母写成一本书，名为《坏运气，热石》（Bad Luck, Hot Rocks）。
That's how we first heard about the story.
这就是我们第一次听说这个故事的方式。
Coming up, Jonathan Goldstein leaps in to help a family who are not entirely sure they want or need his help with the stuff they own.
接下来，乔纳森·戈德斯坦 (Jonathan Goldstein) 介入，帮助一个不完全确定自己想要或需要他帮助处理他们拥有的东西的家庭。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, The Thing About Things, stories of objects that, in one way or another, become our bosses.
今天的节目《关于事物的事情》讲述了以某种方式成为我们老板的物体的故事。
It's like we are doing their bidding.
就好像我们正在执行他们的命令。
It's like we're working for them.
就好像我们在为他们工作一样。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, A Few Hundred of My Favorite Things.
第二幕，我最喜欢的几百件事情。
Sometimes our attachment to things can be a real problem.
有时我们对事物的执着可能是一个真正的问题。
You definitely can get too attached.
你肯定会变得太依恋。
Jonathan Goldstein is a longtime contributor to our show.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦是我们节目的长期撰稿人。
His own show, Heavyweight, is back now with new episodes after a long hiatus.
他自己的节目《重量级》在长时间中断后现在带着新剧集回归。
And one of the new episodes is about some parents whose stuff has become a problem for their kids.
其中一集是关于一些父母的，他们的东西已经成为孩子们的问题。
As always, on Heavyweight, Jonathan jumps in to help.
与往常一样，在重量级比赛中，乔纳森也会加入进来提供帮助。
What I love about this particular story is how it unfolds over time-- over years, actually-- and then arrives at the end at these moments that-- I don't know.
我喜欢这个特殊故事的地方是它如何随着时间的推移——实际上是多年来——然后在我不知道的这些时刻到达结局。
I don't want to say too much about this.
对此我不想说太多。
You should just hear them.
你应该听听他们的声音。
Here's Jonathan's story.
这是乔纳森的故事。
[CLEARS THROAT] All right.
[清嗓子]好吧。
You ready?
你准备好了吗？
You're rolling?
你在滚动吗？
You got levels?
你有等级吗？
Mi, mi, ma, ma, moo.
米，米，玛，玛，哞。
OK, go.
好的，走吧。
This is Gregor.
这是格雷戈尔。
Gregor is one of my oldest friends.
格雷戈尔是我最老的朋友之一。
And today, he's coming to me with a problem.
今天，他带着问题来找我。
I'll take it from the top.
我将从顶部获取它。
OK, so I have two parents, Milton and Etta.
好的，我有两个父母，米尔顿和埃塔。
Etta and Milton are both pushing 90.
Etta 和 Milton 都快到 90 了。
And Gregor's problem is that they refuse to move out of their house.
格雷戈尔的问题是他们拒绝搬出他们的房子。
It's the same three-story Victorian Gregor grew up in.
格雷戈尔就是在这栋三层楼的维多利亚时代长大的。
He was 12 when the family first moved in.
当全家第一次搬进来时，他12岁。
He still remembers the excitement as they unloaded boxes from the moving truck or moving trucks.
他仍然记得他们从一辆或多辆移动卡车上卸下箱子时的兴奋。
Normal people move with a big, giant 18-wheeler moving truck.
普通人用一辆巨大的十八轮搬家卡车搬家。
I believe when we moved, we had six moving trucks.
我相信当我们搬家时，我们有六辆搬家卡车。
One for the family's belongings.
一件用于存放家庭物品。
The other five?
另外五个呢？
For the collections.
为了收藏。
Some people collect coins.
有些人收集硬币。
Some people collect comic books.
有些人收集漫画书。
Gregor's mother, Etta, collects collections.
格雷戈尔的母亲埃塔收集藏品。
She has, like, maybe 200 egg beaters, antique egg beaters.
她大概有 200 个打蛋器，古董打蛋器。
She has-- do you know what a bisque nodder is?
她有——你知道什么是浓汤点头吗？
No. Gregor [CHUCKLES] In occupied Japan, people bought these little figurines where the head would wobble back and forth.
不。格雷戈尔[轻笑]在被占领的日本，人们买了这些小雕像，它们的头会来回摆动。
Like a bobbleheaded doll?
像个摇头娃娃？
Gregor Something like that.
格雷戈尔 类似的东西。
Anyway, she probably has 2,000 bisque nodders.
无论如何，她大概有 2,000 个点头者。
Then there are the 19th century weaving looms, the handmade baskets, the medieval scythes.
还有 19 世纪的织布机、手工制作的篮子、中世纪的镰刀。
Etta Ehrlich is an artist, and her collections are the source of her inspiration.
Etta Ehrlich 是一位艺术家，她的收藏是她的灵感源泉。
Etta sees beauty in everything.
埃塔看到一切都是美丽的。
And in her hands, everything becomes art.
而在她的手中，一切都变成了艺术。
She'll sculpt lint from the dryer.
她会雕刻烘干机中的绒毛。
She'll put googly eyes on a splatter of dried bird poop.
她会把瞪大的眼睛放在一滴干鸟粪上。
My mother has been unbelievably prolific in making art for the last 35 years, to a degree where now the living room is, like, full to the brim with a million pieces of art.
过去 35 年里，我母亲在艺术创作上的创作令人难以置信，以至于现在客厅里堆满了 100 万件艺术品。
And every week, she probably makes five or 10 more pieces of art.
每周，她可能都会创作五到十件以上的艺术品。
None of this would be a problem, except that a large, cluttered house is becoming increasingly dangerous for Gregor's elderly parents.
这一切都不是问题，除了一栋又大又乱的房子对格雷戈尔年迈的父母来说变得越来越危险。
I fear the more conventional fears.
我害怕更传统的恐惧。
I fear my mother falling down a flight of stairs-- or my father.
我害怕我的母亲从楼梯上摔下来——或者我的父亲。
I mean, there's all kinds of dark things that can happen in a house full of staircases.
我的意思是，在充满楼梯的房子里可能会发生各种各样的黑暗事情。
And so Gregor wants to move his parents into a smaller apartment, something more manageable.
因此格雷戈尔想把他的父母搬进一套更小、更容易管理的公寓。
That's his plan.
这就是他的计划。
Yeah, that's his plan.
是的，这就是他的计划。
But that's not my plan.
但这不是我的计划。
This is Etta.
这是埃塔。
Etta The practical thing is, we can't be in the house too much longer.
埃塔：实际情况是，我们不能在房子里呆太久。
I'm 88.
我88岁了。
Yeah.
是的。
Etta But to move out of the house isn't simply a question of selling the furniture.
埃塔但是搬出房子不仅仅是卖家具的问题。
It's, my god, what do we do with all this?
天哪，我们该怎么办？
All this, all the collections is what's keeping Etta in the house.
所有这一切、所有收藏品都是让 Etta 留在家里的原因。
And of all her many collections, of all her milking stools and antique rolling pins, it's her collection of fragile, colorful bottles that is perhaps the biggest impediment to moving.
在她的众多收藏中，在她所有的挤奶凳和古董擀面杖中，她收藏的易碎、色彩缤纷的瓶子也许是搬家的最大障碍。
By Gregor's estimate, Etta has thousands-- wine bottles, perfume bottles, old decanters, bottles washed up from the bottom of the ocean.
据格雷戈尔估计，埃塔有数千个——酒瓶、香水瓶、旧醒酒器、从海底冲上来的瓶子。
As well as being an artist, Etta is a Buddhist.
埃塔不仅是一名艺术家，还是一名佛教徒。
And her bottles are not just bottles, but a series of meditations.
而她的瓶子不仅仅是瓶子，而是一系列的冥想。
Because on each of the bottles, in fancy fonts and careful calligraphy, Etta places a message in the form of a zen-like riddle.
因为在每个瓶子上，埃塔都用精美的字体和精心的书法，以禅宗般的谜语的形式传达了一条信息。
"I turn my noose to tightrope use and madly dance upon it." Isn't that gorgeous?
“我把套索变成走钢丝，然后在上面疯狂地跳舞。”那不是很华丽吗？
That's very nice.
这非常好。
Etta There you go.
埃塔 就这样吧。
You want me to give that away for nothing?
你想让我白白送人吗？
Other inscriptions are "Stop schlepping your old being into the future," or, "We cling to illusions of control." After hearing a few, I start to recognize a theme.
其他铭文包括“不要再把你的旧存在拖入未来”，或者“我们坚持控制的幻想”。听了一些之后，我开始认识到一个主题。
All the bottles bear messages imploring one to let go.
所有瓶子上都写着恳求人们放手的信息。
Yet Etta is incapable of letting go of the very bottles doing the imploring, or much of anything else.
然而，埃塔无法放开那些恳求的瓶子，或者其他任何东西。
There is a little bit of a paradox, or there's something to--
有一点悖论，或者有一些东西——
Yes.
是的。
Jonathan Goldstein --kind of be struggling with here.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦——有点在这里挣扎。
Jonathan, you're very, very sharp.
乔纳森，你非常非常敏锐。
That is exactly, exactly true.
这是千真万确的。
These works, which talk about being stuck with the grasping level, I suffer from that.
这些作品谈论的是被困在抓握层面上，我为此而苦恼。
I could leave tomorrow.
我明天就可以离开。
Jonathan Goldstein This is Gregor's dad, Milt.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 这是格雷戈尔的父亲米尔特。
If the taxi pulled up right now, you would jump in.
如果出租车现在停下来，你就会跳进去。
I'm ready to go.
我准备走了。
Yeah.
是的。
Gregor I'll stop you there.
格雷戈尔 我会在那里阻止你。
He's never taken a taxi in his life.
他这辈子从来没有坐过出租车。
But if I pulled up right now-- I'm kidding.
但如果我现在停下来——我是在开玩笑。
Uber duber.
优步杜伯。
I don't get attached to furniture and bottles and stuff.
我对家具、瓶子之类的东西不感兴趣。
I'll just reinforce that point that while my father may posit that he's a daoist and not attached to anything, he is very much complicit to relentlessly bring home the raw material to which my mother turns the art out.
我只想强调这一点，虽然我父亲可能会认为他是一个道士，不执着于任何东西，但他却是无情地把我母亲创作艺术的原材料带回家的同谋。
When was the last time you brought something home, Milt?
米尔特，你最后一次带东西回家是什么时候？
Yesterday.
昨天。
[LAUGHS] I'm always interested in what she's doing.
[笑]我总是对她所做的事情感兴趣。
And I often find the raw materials.
而且我经常找到原材料。
Walking around in the woods or anywhere, I find stuff.
在树林里或任何地方走来走去，我都会找到东西。
Her only requirement is if I find something, it has to have what she calls charm.
她唯一的要求是，如果我找到什么东西，它必须具有她所谓的魅力。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
As for Milt, what he's charmed by, exceedingly charmed by, is Etta.
至于米尔特，他所着迷的，非常着迷的是埃塔。
Milt is a poet, and after over 60 years of marriage, he still writes poems about her, rhapsodizing about the way she creates art or cooks or the way she dances.
米尔特是一位诗人，结婚 60 多年后，他仍然为她写诗，歌颂她创作艺术、烹饪或舞蹈的方式。
Milt says he can watch Etta dance all night.
米尔特说他可以看埃塔跳舞一整晚。
He just doesn't understand her being so chained to her belongings.
他只是不明白她如此被自己的财物束缚着。
I'm stuck.
我被困住了。
But I am not coming up with a solution that's any better, am I?
但我没有想出更好的解决方案，不是吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Etta Yeah?
埃塔 是吗？
Except dying.
除了死。
And-- [LAUGHS] you know?
而且——[笑]你知道吗？
That's not a solution.
这不是解决办法。
Etta No, it's not a solution for Greg.
埃塔不，这不是格雷格的解决方案。
He's left holding the whole thing.
他留下了整个事情。
Of Milton and his three kids, Gregor is perhaps the one most ready to serve, the child his parents hand a to-do list when he comes to visit.
在米尔顿和他的三个孩子中，格雷戈尔可能是最愿意服务的一个，当他来看望孩子时，他的父母递给孩子一份待办事项清单。
I mean, he talks mean.
我的意思是，他说话很刻薄。
And that's because he has meanness in him.
那是因为他有卑鄙的一面。
[LAUGHS] I'm not saying he doesn't.
[笑]我并不是说他不这样做。
But he's also a very kind, giving, generous, loving person.
但他也是一个非常善良、乐于奉献、慷慨、充满爱心的人。
Yes, he is.
是的，他是。
Yeah.
是的。
Etta Yeah.
埃塔 是的。
Don't tell him I said so.
别告诉他是我这么说的。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Gregor Inaction is a choice.
格雷戈尔不作为是一种选择。
Not doing anything, something's bound to happen sooner or later.
不做任何事情，迟早会发生一些事情。
And to just watch the second hand sweep around the clock face until somebody is dead is the most passive and weakest possible way to exist and die.
看着秒针一圈一圈地走，直到有人死去，这是最被动、最无力的生存和死亡方式。
It just feels like the Damoclean sword of mortality is coming.
感觉就像达摩克林之剑即将来临。
And all we're going to do is sit here and watch Rachel Maddow until it cuts our head off.
我们要做的就是坐在这里看着雷切尔·玛多，直到它砍掉我们的头。
And so because Etta can't let go, Gregor wants my help in pulling off a most extravagant workaround, one that will allow Etta to both keep her stuff and still move out.
因此，由于埃塔无法放手，格雷戈尔希望我帮助实现一个最奢侈的解决方法，即允许埃塔既保留她的东西又搬出去。
The plan of action that Gregor wants to present to her--
格雷戈尔想向她提出的行动计划——
What if you don't get rid of your possessions, and we make a museum of your stuff?
如果你不扔掉你的财产，而我们为你的东西建了一个博物馆怎么办？
Gregor explains to me the details.
格雷戈尔向我解释了细节。
It seems that in the 1960s, Etta and Milt bought a 200-year-old farmhouse with no running water or indoor plumbing.
似乎在 20 世纪 60 年代，埃塔和米尔特买了一座有 200 年历史的农舍，没有自来水，也没有室内管道。
Gregor's plan is to convert the barn into the Etta B.
格雷戈尔的计划是将谷仓改造成埃塔 B。
Erlich Museum.
埃利希博物馆。
Convincing one's mother to downsize by way of a feral farmhouse museum that, by Gregor's own admission, is probably a breeding ground for the hantavirus, has all the makings of a classic cockamamie scheme.
说服母亲通过建造一个野生农舍博物馆来缩小规模，格雷戈尔自己也承认，这个博物馆可能是汉坦病毒的滋生地，这符合经典的愚蠢计划的所有要素。
But this is just the beginning.
但这仅仅是开始。
For his plan to build a museum to work, Gregor will need his siblings on board.
为了使他建造一座博物馆的计划得以实施，格雷戈尔需要他的兄弟姐妹的参与。
So as his emotional envoy, I begin by phoning his sister, Lexi.
作为他的情感使者，我首先给他的妹妹莱克西打电话。
Lexi is the level-headed one of the three, and I want to get her read on the plan.
莱克西是三个人中头脑冷静的一个，我想让她读一下这个计划。
Is it realistic that he'll be able to turn the barn into a museum like that?
他能把谷仓变成这样的博物馆吗？
Perhaps this plan is a bit half-baked, but I figure I might have more luck getting Gregor's brother, Dimitri, on board.
也许这个计划有点不成熟，但我想我可能会更幸运地让格雷戈尔的兄弟迪米特里加入。
Dimitri has never been afraid of a scheme that runs a little pink on the inside.
迪米特里从来不害怕内部有点粉红色的计划。
[LINE RINGING] So I give him a call.
[线路铃声]所以我给他打电话。
We haven't spoken since I moved from New York, where Dimitri lives, to Minnesota.
自从我从迪米特里居住的纽约搬到明尼苏达州以来，我们就没有说过话。
I hate to see a Minneapolis area code when you call.
我讨厌在你打电话时看到明尼阿波利斯的区号。
It makes me sad.
这让我很难过。
Your business doesn't bring you to Minnesota, I'm guessing.
我猜你的生意不会把你带到明尼苏达。
It does sometimes.
有时确实如此。
I interviewed Prince for a cover story.
我为了封面故事采访了普林斯。
Everyone warned me to be very careful with Prince.
每个人都警告我要对 Prince 非常小心。
He's very touchy.
他非常敏感。
Dimitri is a martial arts instructor who has kickboxed his way across Thailand.
迪米特里（Dimitri）是一名武术教练，他凭借跆拳道走遍了泰国。
He's also a journalist who interviews celebrities--
他也是一位采访名人的记者——
So I went there and waited all day for the interview.
于是我就去了那里，等了一整天的面试。
--and a musician who had a song go platinum three times in Belgium.
——还有一位音乐家，他的一首歌在比利时三度获得白金销量。
--and was like, hey, you want to jam?
——然后就说，嘿，你想即兴演奏吗？
And I was like, OK.
我当时想，好吧。
So I wound up actually jamming with Larry Graham and Prince for like 20 minutes.
所以我最终与 Larry Graham 和 Prince 一起即兴演奏了大约 20 分钟。
[LAUGHS] What?
[笑]什么？
Dimitri That was one time.
迪米特里 那是一次。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Jonathan Goldstein Before Dimitri can launch into his next sentence, I jump in.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦 在迪米特里开始说下一句话之前，我插话道。
So your brother, Gregor-- Dimitri Yeah, I'm familiar with him.
那么你的兄弟，格雷戈尔——迪米特里，是的，我很熟悉他。
--he has this plan, which maybe you're all so familiar with.
——他有这个计划，也许你们都很熟悉。
When I'm finished rehashing Gregor's museum plan, Dimitri offers a laundry list of issues.
当我重新讨论完格雷戈尔的博物馆计划后，迪米特里提供了一系列问题。
99% to 100% chance of getting Lyme disease walking out of your car to the barn because it's high grass, a lot of deer, getting poison ivy.
从车里走到谷仓时，有 99% 到 100% 的机会感染莱姆病，因为那里草丛很高，有很多鹿，还会感染毒藤。
There's also, like, horrible black mold because as you know, the farmhouse burned down when my albino baker friend, Theo, stayed there and lit a fire, and the roof and the whole house burned down.
还有，比如，可怕的黑色霉菌，因为如你所知，当我的白化面包师朋友西奥留在那里生火时，农舍被烧毁了，屋顶和整个房子都被烧毁了。
And along with his friend Theo's trouble, there was also his friend Sonam's trouble in that cursed place.
在那个被诅咒的地方，除了他的朋友西奥的麻烦之外，还有他的朋友索南的麻烦。
My friend, who spent 25 years as a Buddhist monk under the Dalai Lama, had to use a broom to fight off a very large raccoon that was in the house and was growling at us, like a just horrifying feral raccoon--
我的朋友在达赖喇嘛手下当了 25 年的佛教僧侣，他不得不用扫帚来击退房子里的一只很大的浣熊，这只浣熊正在向我们咆哮，就像一只可怕的野浣熊一样——
But for Dimitri, even more daunting than the rabid raccoons is changing his mother's mind on the matter.
但对于迪米特里来说，比疯狂的浣熊更令人畏惧的是他母亲在这件事上改变了主意。
Whenever he's tried to clear space in his parents' home, it refills overnight, suggesting Etta's problem can't be solved by physical means.
每当他试图清理父母家里的空间时，空间都会在一夜之间重新填满，这表明埃塔的问题无法通过物理手段解决。
Instead, he thinks the problem has to be attacked at its psychological root.
相反，他认为必须从心理根源上解决这个问题。
She needs to learn how to let go.
她需要学会如何放手。
And for this, Dimitri has just the solution.
为此，迪米特里有解决方案。
Well, maybe hypnosis.
嗯，也许是催眠。
It stopped her from smoking, which is probably a more powerful psychological and physical addiction than collecting things.
它阻止了她吸烟，这可能是一种比收集东西更强大的心理和身体上的瘾。
Etta was a pack-a-day smoker, a habit she hung on to for nearly 30 years.
埃塔每天吸烟一包，这个习惯她已经坚持了近 30 年。
Our friend, who was a hypnotist, said, oh, I can hypnotize you.
我们的朋友是一名催眠师，他说，哦，我可以催眠你。
And she went into the session thinking, this isn't going to work.
她一开始就想，这行不通。
The whole time the hypnosis was going on, she was like, this isn't working, this isn't working.
在整个催眠过程中，她都在想，这不起作用，这不起作用。
And then she walked out and never smoked again.
然后她就走了出去，再也没有抽烟了。
Hmm.
唔。
Dimitri He was an interesting person, too.
迪米特里他也是一个有趣的人。
His name was Saul Feldstein.
他的名字叫索尔·费尔德斯坦。
He actually had one of his eyeballs was hanging out of his face.
事实上，他的一只眼珠子悬在脸上。
And it was like a sort of early commune hippie thing.
这就像早期公社嬉皮士的事情。
And like--
就像——
Having grown up on TV sitcoms of the 1970s, I'm well aware of the power of hypnosis.
我是看着 20 世纪 70 年代的电视情景喜剧长大的，因此非常了解催眠的力量。
--hanging out of his face.
——挂在他的脸上。
Jonathan Goldstein Hypnosis gave Fred Flintstone the self-control to stop eating brontosaurus burgers.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦催眠让弗雷德·弗林特斯通有了自我控制力，不再吃雷龙汉堡。
It gave The Fonz the confidence to jump Snake Canyon on his motorcycle.
这让 Fonz 有信心骑着摩托车跳过蛇峡谷。
One of his eyeballs-- Jonathan Goldstein As a boy, I always wondered what it would feel like to have my full potential unlocked through the hypnotic arts.
他的一颗眼球——乔纳森·戈德斯坦（Jonathan Goldstein） 作为一个男孩，我总是想知道通过催眠艺术释放我的全部潜力会是什么样的感觉。
--hanging out of his face, and he was very successful as a hypnotist.
——挂在他的脸上，他是一位非常成功的催眠师。
Wow.
哇。
Unlike building a museum, hypnosis requires neither time, effort, nor those awful stanchions that snap back with that loud thwacking sound that make everyone turn around and stare at you.
与建造博物馆不同，催眠不需要时间、精力，也不需要那些可怕的支柱，这些支柱会突然弹回，发出巨大的重击声，让每个人都转过身来盯着你。
Fully convinced that Saul Feldstein is the solution to all of our problems and that museums belong in a museum, Dimitri and I say our goodbyes.
迪米特里和我完全相信索尔·费尔德斯坦能够解决我们所有的问题，并且博物馆属于博物馆。
Gregor We're slating in on part two, Johnny discusses post-talking to Dimitri.
格雷戈尔：我们将进入第二部分，约翰尼讨论与迪米特里交谈后的情况。
Here we go.
开始了。
I need to tell Gregor that I like Dimitri's idea much better than his, but I need to tread lightly.
我需要告诉格雷戈尔，我比迪米特里的想法更喜欢他的想法，但我需要谨慎行事。
From Cain and Abel to Stephen and Alec Baldwin, I know how competitive brothers can be.
从该隐和亚伯到斯蒂芬和亚历克·鲍德温，我知道兄弟之间的竞争有多么激烈。
And unlike the Lord or Alexander Rae Baldwin, I don't want to be seen playing favorites.
与勋爵或亚历山大·雷·鲍德温不同，我不想被人看到偏袒。
Do you think that hypnotism has a role in this?
你认为催眠术在其中起作用吗？
Well, I hear that your voice went up an octave when we started talking about hypnotism, and you got excited about hypnotism.
嗯，我听说当我们开始谈论催眠术时，你的声音提高了八度，而且你对催眠术感到兴奋。
Well, Dimitri seemed to think that it could help.
好吧，迪米特里似乎认为这会有所帮助。
OK, so the two of you should go see a movie together.
好吧，那你们两个一起去看电影吧。
Going to movies is Gregor and my thing.
看电影是格雷戈尔和我的事。
Clearly, I'm arousing some jealousy.
显然，我引起了一些嫉妒。
I need to keep my arguments away from Dimitri and grounded in the merits of hypnotism.
我需要让我的论点远离迪米特里，并以催眠术的优点为基础。
--as the symptom.
——作为症状。
But through hypnosis--
但通过催眠——
Why are you saying it with the weird accent on the word "hypnosis"?
你为什么用奇怪的口音说“催眠”这个词？
I mean, do you think that hypnotism has something to offer here?
我的意思是，你认为催眠术在这里有用吗？
My short answer would be absolutely not.
我的简短回答是绝对不会。
I think it's a waste of time.
我认为这是浪费时间。
[LINE RINGING] Hypnosis.
[线路铃声]催眠。
"Hip-nosis." "Hip-no-sis."
“臀鼻。” “臀部不姐姐。”
Hi, Johnny.
嗨，约翰尼。
How are you?
你好吗？
Jonathan Goldstein Hey, Dimitri.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦嘿，迪米特里。
Hi.
你好。
I've got your brother, Gregor, on the line with me.
你的兄弟格雷戈尔正在跟我通话。
Sure.
当然。
I just think that there's no harm.
我只是觉得没有什么坏处。
There's certainly nothing to lose.
当然没有什么可失去的。
It takes 15 or 20 minutes.
需要 15 或 20 分钟。
And she's proven that she's very susceptible to hypnotic suggestions.
她已经证明自己非常容易受到催眠建议的影响。
So why not try it?
那么为什么不尝试一下呢？
I agree with all those points.
我同意所有这些观点。
My main feeling is that, getting someone to stop a behavior like smoking is much, much easier than getting someone to change their personality, which is harder to hypnotize someone out of.
我的主要感觉是，让某人停止吸烟等行为比让某人改变性格容易得多，而催眠某人则更难。
That may be true.
这可能是真的。
I wouldn't disagree there.
我不会不同意。
Swept up in a wave of brotherly bonhomie, I decide it's a safe space to cautiously share my one secret boyhood longing--
沉浸在一股兄弟情谊的浪潮中，我决定这是一个安全的空间，可以谨慎地分享我童年时的一个秘密渴望——
And along the way, I could get hypnotized out of something, too.
一路上，我也可能会因为某些事情而被催眠。
--and immediately regret it.
——然后立刻就后悔了。
Jonathan Goldstein What do you mean, a lot of stuff?
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦：很多东西是什么意思？
I mean, that smug smile they could work on.
我的意思是，他们可以努力保持那种自鸣得意的微笑。
We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're super charming all the time.
我们可以给你一个全新的东西，让你一直超级迷人。
Being more able to look people in the eye.
更能够直视别人的眼睛。
Actually, all joking aside, there is a new hypnosis that works on what's called voluntary baldness syndrome, where they realize that a lot of men are sort of doing it on purpose.
事实上，抛开开玩笑不谈，有一种新的催眠疗法可以治疗所谓的自愿秃发综合症，他们意识到很多男人都是故意这样做的。
Well, it turns out that hair loss is more of like an act of willful insolence often, and a cry for pity.
好吧，事实证明，脱发更像是一种故意无礼的行为，也是一种怜悯的呼喊。
I used to love my hair.
我曾经很喜欢我的头发。
Dimitri Well, if you loved it so much, why did you get rid of it?
Dimitri 好吧，如果你这么喜欢它，为什么要摆脱它呢？
First of all, I find that offensive.
首先，我觉得这令人反感。
And, Gregor, chime in here because I'm sure you're equally offended.
格雷戈尔，请插话一下，因为我相信你也同样感到被冒犯。
No, Dimitri used to be bald as an egg, and then he willed it back on.
不，迪米特里以前秃得像鸡蛋一样，后来他又用意志把它秃了回来。
[LAUGHS] Dimitri I think if you did it at the same time with my mother, we'd get a two for one deal.
[笑] Dimitri 我想如果你和我妈妈同时做的话，我们就会得到买二送一的优惠。
Package deal.
套餐优惠。
Dimitri I'm just saying, it's science.
迪米特里，我只是说，这是科学。
If you read The New England Journal of Medicine, this--
如果你读过《新英格兰医学杂志》，这——
With Gregor and Dmitri aligned and friends again at my expense, I set out in search of the one-eyed hippie hypnotist, Saul Feldstein.
格雷戈尔和德米特里结盟，并以我为代价再次成为朋友，我开始寻找独眼嬉皮催眠师索尔·费尔德斯坦。
But it turns out Saul died in 2019 at the age of 91.
但事实证明索尔于 2019 年去世，享年 91 岁。
So I reach out to other hypnotists, all of whom pretty much hang up on me once I explain the project.
所以我联系了其他催眠师，一旦我解释了这个项目，他们几乎都挂断了我的电话。
So hypnotism is out.
所以催眠术已经过时了。
The museum is out.
博物馆出来了。
I'm stuck with my crap personality, and Etta is stuck with her house full of crap.
我被我的垃圾性格所困，而埃塔则被她的房子里充满垃圾所困。
And Gregor is still at an impasse.
而格雷戈尔仍处于僵局。
But things are about to change.
但事情即将发生变化。
Gregor tells me that Etta has been offered a show at the Carter Burden gallery in Manhattan.
格雷戈尔告诉我，埃塔已获得在曼哈顿卡特·伯登画廊举办一场展览的邀请。
Etta is an outsider artist, so the offer of her own exhibition feels like finally, at the age of 88, she's being invited inside.
埃塔是一位局外艺术家，所以她自己的展览的邀请让人感觉她终于在 88 岁的时候被邀请进去了。
The show, with its formal invitations and coat check, feels like validation.
这场秀，带着正式的邀请函和外套检查，感觉像是一种验证。
It's the kind of opportunity Etta has always hoped for.
这是埃塔一直希望的机会。
And for Gregor, it feels like an opportunity for her pieces to find good homes outside her home.
对于格雷戈尔来说，这感觉就像是一个让她的作品在她的家之外找到好归宿的机会。
The show opens on March 21, 2019.
该剧于2019年3月21日开幕。
Gregor and I make a plan to speak the morning after so he can tell me how it went.
格雷戈尔和我计划第二天早上谈谈，这样他就能告诉我事情进展如何。
When we speak, what Gregor tells me is that things that night took a wild turn.
当我们交谈时，格雷戈尔告诉我的是那天晚上事情发生了疯狂的转变。
Do you want to explain?
你想解释一下吗？
Gregor Sure.
格雷戈尔 当然。
I flew into town for my mom's art opening.
我飞到城里参加我妈妈的艺术开幕式。
OK, we're here at the art opening.
好的，我们来参加艺术开幕式。
It's a pretty good crowd.
这是一个相当不错的人群。
Everyone's eating wine and cheese.
每个人都在吃葡萄酒和奶酪。
It was almost like a cartoon version of my mom's success story in that some stranger guy came up and was like, you're a beautiful woman.
这几乎就像我妈妈成功故事的卡通版，一些陌生人走过来说，你是一个美丽的女人。
You're beautiful.
你非常美。
Etta [LAUGHS] Thank you.
埃塔[笑]谢谢。
That's very nice to hear at my age, I'll tell you that much.
在我这个年纪听到这些真是太好了，我会告诉你这么多。
Her ego was buffed from many sides, everything going great.
她的自尊心从多方面得到了增强，一切都进展顺利。
Oh!
哦！
Jonathan Goldstein Gregor's dad, Milt, on the other hand, wasn't having as good a time.
另一方面，乔纳森·戈尔茨坦·格雷戈尔的父亲米尔特却过得并不愉快。
He spent most of the evening in the corner, nibbling on crackers.
整个晚上他大部分时间都呆在角落里，啃着饼干。
At the end of the night, Gregor approached him.
夜幕降临时，格雷戈尔走近了他。
Well, Father, what did you make of that?
好吧，神父，你对此有何看法？
Oh, it was very nice.
哦，那真是太好了。
It was a little bit exhausting.
有点累了。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
He seemed like-- even though he sometimes talks in a quiet voice, he was especially quiet.
他看起来——虽然有时候说话的声音很小，但是却特别安静。
Like, I could hardly hear him.
就像，我几乎听不到他的声音。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Jonathan Goldstein On the drive home, Milt conked out.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 在开车回家的路上，米尔特昏倒了。
When the family couldn't rouse him, they realized he wasn't just sleeping, but completely unconscious.
当家人无法叫醒他时，他们意识到他不仅在睡觉，而且完全失去知觉。
Etta began yelling, wailing Milt's name.
埃塔开始大喊大叫，呼喊着米尔特的名字。
He was driven to the hospital, where the EMTs lifted him onto a gurney.
他被送往医院，急救人员将他抬到轮床上。
The doctors thought he might be having a stroke, but they couldn't say for sure.
医生认为他可能中风，但他们不能确定。
In the waiting room, Etta turned to Gregor and said, you might as well order the dumpsters right now, meaning, you win, empty out the house, because if Milt isn't coming back to it, that's it.
在候诊室里，埃塔转向格雷戈尔说，你最好现在就订购垃圾箱，意思是，你赢了，清空房子，因为如果米尔特不回来，就这样了。
How do you know when the Damoclean sword of mortality isn't just dangling above you, but actually falling?
你怎么知道死亡的达摩克林之剑不仅悬在你的头顶，而且实际上落了下来？
How do you know when it's time to pick up the remote, turn off Rachel Maddow, and finally act?
你怎么知道什么时候该拿起遥控器、关掉 Rachel Maddow 并最终采取行动？
The night, a milestone in Etta's career, was meant to symbolize a turning point.
这个夜晚是埃塔职业生涯中的一个里程碑，象征着一个转折点。
And it was, just not the kind she was hoping for.
这确实不是她所希望的那种。
Milt was eventually sent home from the hospital, but his collapse signaled a change for Gregor, too.
米尔特最终从医院被送回家，但他的崩溃也标志着格雷戈尔的改变。
For so long, he'd been saying, maybe it's time, but maybe it was time to stop saying maybe.
很长一段时间以来，他一直在说，也许是时候了，但也许是时候停止说也许了。
Hello?
你好？
Jonathan Goldstein Hi, it's Gregor and Jonathan.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦 大家好，我是格雷戈尔和乔纳森。
Oh, and I thought this was a scam call.
哦，我还以为这是一个诈骗电话。
How do you like that?
你觉得怎么样？
How are you?
你好吗？
Johnny wanted to dredge up a bunch of painful family issues.
约翰尼想解决一系列痛苦的家庭问题。
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
The painfuller, the better.
越痛苦越好。
I want to talk with Etta about the night of the art opening and the way it affected her thinking about remaining in the house.
我想和埃塔谈谈艺术开幕当晚的事情，以及它对她留在家里的想法的影响。
I won't be able to stay here alone.
我不能独自留在这里。
Either I will become ill, or Milt will become ill, and I need somebody to help me.
要么我生病，要么米尔特生病，我需要有人帮助我。
There is a new little piece in my head that says things are going to change.
我脑子里有一个新的小片段说事情将会改变。
In the aftermath of the art show opening, as Etta's new reality sunk in, another plan began to take shape, one that Etta came up with.
艺术展开幕后，随着埃塔的新现实深入人心，另一项计划开始成形，这是埃塔提出的。
Her idea is to pair each of her message-on-a-bottles with the right person.
她的想法是将她的每个瓶子上的信息与合适的人配对。
In this way, each one will find the right home.
这样，每个人都会找到合适的家。
I now have a whole shelf full of stuff that I'm now earmarking to give away.
我现在有一整个架子，里面装满了我准备赠送的东西。
That's something that you've not normally done?
这是你平时没有做过的事情吗？
No. I'd only gave very few things away to my best friend or to the kids or something like that.
不，我只给了我最好的朋友或孩子们或类似的东西很少的东西。
Very few.
很少。
Very, very few.
非常非常少。
You think it's at the beginning of something, more of this to come?
你认为这只是某件事的开始，还会有更多的事情发生吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, it has to be.
是的，必须如此。
It has to be.
必须如此。
I take it very seriously when I think of giving a person a bottle.
当我考虑送人一瓶酒时，我会非常认真地对待它。
I have to think, would it be good for that person?
我必须想一想，这对那个人有好处吗？
A few weeks later, I call Gregor to see how Etta's bottle drive is coming along.
几周后，我打电话给格雷戈尔，了解埃塔的瓶装运动进展如何。
So she called me this morning, saying, I thought of the perfect person to give the perfect bottle to, but I'm afraid it's going to hurt his feelings.
所以今天早上她打电话给我，说，我想到了一个完美的人，可以把完美的瓶子送给他，但我担心这会伤害他的感情。
OK.
好的。
Gregor She wants to give you a bottle.
格雷戈尔 她想给你一瓶。
She wants to give-- OK, well, that-- wow, that's really nice.
她想要给予——好吧，那个——哇，那真是太好了。
Why would that hurt my feelings?
为什么这会伤害我的感情？
If you give someone a bottle that says, like, I wish I was present, then it's sort of an implication that you're not present.
如果你给某人一瓶酒，上面写着“我希望我在场”，那么这就暗示着你不在场。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
It could be interpreted sometimes as a sort of a criticism.
有时它可以被解释为一种批评。
So I don't know how you'll take it.
所以我不知道你会如何接受。
Well, did she tell you what my bottle says?
好吧，她告诉你我的瓶子上写了什么吗？
That's as much as I can say at this point.
目前我能说的就这么多了。
That's as much as I'm authorized to say.
这就是我有权说的。
Even though I should know better, know how Gregor will dangle this knowledge over my head like a cat dancer, my curiosity gets the better of me.
尽管我应该知道得更多，知道格雷戈尔将如何像猫舞者一样将这些知识悬挂在我的头上，但我的好奇心战胜了我。
And so I keep asking Gregor what the bottle says, which he uses as an opportunity to dissect my personality.
所以我一直问格雷戈尔瓶子里写了什么，他以此为契机来剖析我的性格。
All I can say, he says, is that it addresses some of your deep-seated issues.
他说，我只能说，它解决了一些根深蒂固的问题。
Despite all your insights about other people, you sort of tend to remove yourself from the collective and put yourself in the position of, like, journalistic observer.
尽管你对其他人有很多见解，但你还是倾向于将自己从集体中抽离出来，并将自己置于新闻观察员的位置。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Gregor When you have these insights, your dime store insights you bolt on at the end of things where you're like, maybe we all need someone to run to, that Hallmark-y nonsense that you tend to spout at the end of these--
格雷戈尔：当你有了这些洞察力时，你的一角钱存储了你在事情结束时栓上的洞察力，也许我们都需要有人跑去，你倾向于在这些结束时滔滔不绝地滔滔不绝地说出那些霍尔马克式的废话——
What a jerk.
真是个混蛋。
You feel comfortable just saying something like that to someone?
你对某人说这样的话感到舒服吗？
Telling me about my dime--
告诉我我的一角钱——
No, see, I knew you were going to take it the wrong way.
不，看，我知道你会采取错误的方式。
I think, sometimes, you sort of make yourself resistant, like, oh, I don't matter.
我想，有时候，你会让自己变得抗拒，就像，哦，我没关系。
I'm just the fly on the wall to watching the human condition as people live and die and suffer, and babies are born, and old people are lowered into the ground.
我只是墙上的苍蝇，看着人类的生存状况，人们生老病死，受苦受难，婴儿出生，老人被埋入地下。
Oh, and the dirt hits the coffin.
哦，泥土打到了棺材上。
That reminds me of my sponsor.
这让我想起了我的赞助商。
I think you just-- you use this thing to remove yourself from what's actually going on.
我认为你只是——你用这个东西让自己脱离实际发生的事情。
OK, all right.
好吧，好吧。
Gregor You're like, you know what would really make this thing sing?
格雷戈尔 你想，你知道什么能让这东西真正唱歌吗？
[LAUGHS] Gregor [CHUCKLES] Now let me just get a shot of you throwing your art off the bridge.
[笑]格雷戈尔[轻笑]现在让我拍一张你把你的艺术品从桥上扔下来的照片。
That's what we need to finish this.
这就是我们需要完成的事情。
Over the next couple of years, Etta continues to slowly search out the right homes for her bottles.
在接下来的几年里，埃塔继续慢慢地为她的瓶子寻找合适的家。
Whereas in the past, Etta was only able to give away a few, Gregor estimates that she hands out about a hundred.
过去，埃塔只能赠送一些，而格雷戈尔估计她会赠送大约一百个。
During this time, Milt is in and out of the hospital, with cardiac issues ranging from fainting spells and high blood pressure to an actual heart attack.
在此期间，米尔特经常进出医院，患有从昏厥、高血压到真正的心脏病发作等各种心脏问题。
But then, in the summer of 2021, it's Etta who received some bad news.
但随后，在 2021 年夏天，埃塔收到了一些坏消息。
Two years after Gregor and I first spoke, Gregor phones to tell me his mother has been diagnosed with brain cancer.
格雷戈尔和我第一次交谈两年后，格雷戈尔打电话告诉我他的母亲被诊断出患有脑癌。
The doctor found nine metastases in her brain.
医生在她的脑部发现了九个转移瘤。
They went to three different hospitals in five days, and the consensus was that it wasn't a matter of months, but of weeks.
他们在五天内去了三家不同的医院，一致认为这不是几个月的问题，而是几周的问题。
In what felt like only days, Etta went from carrying laundry up the stairs to needing to be carried up the stairs herself.
感觉仅仅几天的时间，埃塔就从把洗好的衣服搬上楼梯，变成了需要自己搬上楼梯。
With Etta's illness, Gregor decides to move in-- the whole family does-- into the big, packed house they grew up in.
由于埃塔生病了，格雷戈尔决定全家搬进他们长大的那栋挤满人的大房子里。
A hospital bed is set up on the main floor in Etta's old office.
埃塔旧办公室的主楼层设置了一张病床。
And Gregor wakes up at sunrise and sits at Etta's bedside in silence.
格雷戈尔在日出时醒来，默默地坐在埃塔的床边。
He speaks with her, makes her comfortable.
他和她说话，让她感到舒服。
He tells her it's OK to go, that everything is OK.
他告诉她可以走了，一切都好。
And I stayed there for six weeks, eight weeks, and sort of did the bedside vigil as she slowly died.
我在那里待了六周、八周，在她慢慢去世时，我在床边守夜。
In those final weeks, Gregor saw a change come over Etta.
在最后几周里，格雷戈尔看到埃塔发生了变化。
In the years running up to her death, she would say things like, listen, there's a rolled-up rug in the attic.
在她去世前的几年里，她会说这样的话，听着，阁楼上有一块卷起来的地毯。
That's worth a lot of money.
那值很多钱。
Make sure that they don't cheat you out of that one.
确保他们不会欺骗你。
That was always kind of a sort of joke, sort of real thing.
这总是一种笑话，一种真实的事情。
But when the actual room of death and dying was happening, that stuff didn't really come up.
但当真正的死亡和临终的房间发生时，这些东西并没有真正出现。
It felt more like she was at peace with a lot of stuff.
感觉更像是她对很多事情都很平静。
And a lot of the stuff she told me, she would be laying there with her eyes shut, but smiling.
她告诉我的很多事情，她都会闭着眼睛躺在那里，但微笑着。
And I'm like, Mom, what are you thinking about?
我说，妈妈，你在想什么？
And she would just-- just with her hand, she would indicate that she's dancing by just flowing her hand in the air.
她会用她的手，通过在空中挥动她的手来表明她正在跳舞。
It felt like a great death.
这感觉就像一次伟大的死亡。
The words on the bottles had finally sunk in.
瓶子上的字终于被人看懂了。
In the end, Etta could dance out of the world gracefully, no grasping.
最终，埃塔可以优雅地跳舞脱离这个世界，没有任何执着。
It's the living who are left to grasp.
剩下来抓紧的是活着的人。
Since my mom died, it feels like it's harder to throw things out than I thought.
自从我妈妈去世后，感觉扔东西比我想象的更难。
This is Gregor's sister, Lexi, again.
这又是格雷戈尔的妹妹莱克西。
Like Etta, Lexi is an artist.
和埃塔一样，莱克西也是一位艺术家。
And like Gregor, she's surprised by how, after all the years trying to get her mom to let go of her stuff, she herself is finding it so hard to let go of that very same stuff.
和格雷戈尔一样，她很惊讶地发现，多年来她一直试图让妈妈放弃她的东西，但她自己却发现很难放弃同样的东西。
It just feels really hard to-- her art, it's like a part of her.
感觉真的很难——她的艺术，就像她的一部分。
Yeah.
是的。
Alexis I had an interesting conversation with my dad the other day, who was, of course, really grief-stricken.
亚历克西斯 前几天我和我父亲进行了一次有趣的谈话，他当然非常悲伤。
And he was saying, why do people make art?
他说，人们为什么创作艺术？
And he thinks the reason people make art is so that they're not forgotten when they die.
他认为人们创作艺术的原因是为了在死后不被遗忘。
Like, you do something that remains in the world.
就像，你做了一些留在世界上的事情。
I think of her a lot.
我很想她。
Jonathan Goldstein Do you still carry with you your mother's love?
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦：你还带着母亲的爱吗？
Do you feel it?
你感觉到了吗？
I carry her with me, I mean, in the way that when I experience something, I can't help but hear my mother's voice making fun of me for my description of what I'm experiencing.
我带着她，我的意思是，当我经历一些事情时，我会情不自禁地听到我母亲的声音，因为我对所经历的事情的描述而取笑我。
I might be describing something, telling her about just some quotidian thing in the day.
我可能会描述一些事情，告诉她一些日常的事情。
You know, this is a nice sunset, but it'd be nicer if that truck weren't backing up.
你知道，这是一个美丽的日落，但如果那辆卡车没有倒车那就更好了。
And I can hear her being like, why are you so rotten, you know?
我能听到她说，你为什么这么烂，你知道吗？
What is wrong with you?
你怎么了？
I mean, that type of thing.
我的意思是，那种事情。
You can try to move your aging parents out of their house.
您可以尝试将年迈的父母搬出他们的房子。
You can treat death like a to-do list with items to check off.
您可以将死亡视为待办事项清单，其中包含需要核对的项目。
But ultimately, you can't control how people live or die.
但最终，你无法控制人们的生或死。
Even after Etta's death, Milt remained in that very same house.
即使在埃塔去世后，米尔特仍然住在同一所房子里。
It's Dimitri and his own family that move in so that Milt doesn't have to be alone.
迪米特里和他自己的家人搬了进来，这样米尔特就不必孤单了。
And over the next few years, Gregor, in fits and starts and with disregard for what anyone thinks, continues to work on the museum.
在接下来的几年里，格雷戈尔时断时续，不顾任何人的想法，继续为博物馆工作。
Only, it's become less about a full-fledged museum open to the public and more of just a place to honor his mom.
只是，它不再是一个向公众开放的成熟博物馆，而更像是一个纪念他母亲的地方。
And then one day, Gregor texts saying he found a sealed box in the Victorian with my name on it, written in Etta's hand.
然后有一天，格雷戈尔发短信说他在维多利亚时期发现了一个密封的盒子，上面写着我的名字，是埃塔亲笔写的。
When the box arrives, I unravel what seems like yards and yards of bubble wrap.
当盒子到达时，我拆开看起来像是一码又一码的泡沫包装纸。
Etta had taken great care.
埃塔非常小心。
The bottle is a beautiful blue, the blue of a childhood toy.
瓶子是美丽的蓝色，童年玩具的蓝色。
It's curvaceous and feels good in my hand.
它曲线优美，拿在手里感觉很好。
Upon it, Etta laid out her words to me.
埃塔在上面向我说出了她的话。
I would love to live like a river flows, carried by the surprise of its own unfolding.
我希望像一条河流一样生活，被它自己展开的惊喜所带动。
See what I mean?
明白我的意思吗？
I do.
我愿意。
But how dare she?
但她怎么敢？
I'm kidding.
我在开玩笑。
Cue the outro music.
提示片尾音乐。
Cue the dime store insight.
提示一毛钱商店的洞察力。
Whether it's to a museum in the wilds of upstate New York or to a landfill, none of us knows where we're flowing.
无论是去纽约州北部荒野中的博物馆还是垃圾填埋场，我们都不知道自己流向何处。
In the face of that, we need to learn how to let go.
面对这种情况，我们需要学会如何放手。
My feeling about what comes after death is constantly changing.
我对死后的感觉不断变化。
I don't have a spiritual practice, so all I have is a feeling.
我没有修行，所以我所拥有的只是一种感觉。
And my feeling today is that bodies are vessels, just like colorful bottles are vessels, just like podcasts and houses packed with stuff, and all of art is.
我今天的感觉是，身体是容器，就像五颜六色的瓶子是容器，就像播客和装满东西的房子一样，所有的艺术都是。
It's all just stuff.
这一切都只是东西。
And stuff can be beautiful, but it's there to help us get closer to the non-stuff.
物质可能很美丽，但它的存在是为了帮助我们更接近非物质。
Because, like the words Etta inscribed on one of her final bottles, all important matters are invisible.
因为，就像埃塔在她最后一瓶酒上刻的字一样，所有重要的事情都是看不见的。
Jonathan Goldstein.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
That story is part of the new season of his show, Heavyweight.
这个故事是他的节目《重量级》新一季的一部分。
It was produced by Phoebe Flanagan with help from Kalila Holt and Stevie Lane.
它由菲比·弗拉纳根 (Phoebe Flanagan) 在卡利拉·霍尔特 (Kalila Holt) 和史蒂维·莱恩 (Stevie Lane) 的帮助下制作。
If you do not know Heavyweight, you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.
如果您不知道 Heavyweight，您可以在任何获得播客的地方找到它。
I have to say, one great episode to start with is Jonathan's original season 1 episode that's called Gregor, about his friend Gregor, who you just heard, who, in that episode, is on a mission to get justice from the pop star Moby.
我不得不说，一个很棒的剧集首先是乔纳森第一季的原创剧集《格雷戈尔》，讲述的是他的朋友格雷戈尔，你刚刚听说过，在那一集中，他的使命是从流行歌星莫比那里讨回正义。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Aviva DeKornfeld.
图片来源：Ira Glass 嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作的。
The people who helped put the show together today include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Suzanne Gaber, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind, Tobin Low, Katherine Rae Mando, Stowe Nelson, Robin Reid, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, and Marisa Robertson-Textor.
今天帮助制作这部剧的人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Suzanne Gaber、Cassie Howley、Seth Lind、Tobin Low、Katherine Rae Mando、Stowe Nelson、Robin Reid、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala 和 Marisa Robertson-Textor。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Emma Munger.
今天特别感谢艾玛·芒格。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
A reminder that if you like our show and listen to it a lot, please consider signing up as a This American Life Partner.
提醒您，如果您喜欢我们的节目并经常收听，请考虑注册成为“This American Life”合作伙伴。
Do it for the stuff you get, or do it simply because you want to help us keep making the show the way we do it now.
这样做是为了你得到的东西，或者只是因为你想帮助我们继续按照现在的方式制作节目。
Join at thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
加入 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
Thanks this week to Life Partners Fabian Frey, Cathy D, Anastasia Ragland, and Nancy Berault.
本周感谢生活伙伴 Fabian Frey、Cathy D、Anastasia Ragland 和 Nancy Berault。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
After just one week, making maybe 1,500 homemade AI videos, he's quitting Sora.
仅仅一周后，他制作了大约 1,500 个自制 AI 视频，然后就退出了 Sora。
It was a scourge on my life.
这对我的生活来说是一个祸害。
It was a shadow that was always with me.
那是一个一直伴随着我的影子。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。