866: Watch Out for That Tree - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #866 | September 5, 2025 866: Watch Out for That Tree Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 866 集 | 2025 年 9 月 5 日 866：留意那棵树 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Tom's an accountant.

序言： 序言 艾拉·格拉斯 汤姆是一名会计师。

And he once said this thing to his kids that really stuck with them because it summed up so much about his personality and how he handles decisions at work and with his family.

他曾经对他的孩子们说过这句话，这句话让他们印象深刻，因为这句话概括了他的个性以及他如何在工作和家庭中做出决定。

He said it's his job to assess risk.

他说评估风险是他的工作。

It was part of his thinking, even when he planned family vacations.

即使当他计划全家度假时，这也是他思考的一部分。

Planning vacations would take him months.

计划假期需要花费他几个月的时间。

He'd get travel guides, check out national parks.

他会获取旅行指南，参观国家公园。

He'd look for hidden gems near the parks that they could visit along the way.

他会在公园附近寻找他们可以沿途参观的隐藏宝石。

He'd check the local weather.

他会查看当地的天气。

--to make sure that we know what the average temperatures are during those times of years.

——确保我们知道这些年里的平均气温是多少。

Now, I'm going to ask this question as an accountant's kid.

现在，我要以会计师的孩子的身份来问这个问题。

When you would put together the family's plan for the trip, was that done in an Excel spreadsheet?

当您整理家庭旅行计划时，是在 Excel 电子表格中完成的吗？

[LAUGHS] You know it.

[笑]你知道的。

Pretty good, Ira.

非常好，伊拉。

I like that.

我喜欢这样。

And so if I saw that spreadsheet, what would I be seeing?

那么，如果我看到该电子表格，我会看到什么？

You'd be seeing, from left to right, it has the dates that we're going to-- where we're going to be.

你会看到，从左到右，它有我们要去的日期——我们要去的地方。

And then--

然后——

Also mileage between each spot, number of hours on the road, places to stay, that kind of thing.

还有每个地点之间的里程、路上的小时数、住宿地点等。

OK.

好的。

So one year, the plan was to go to Great Basin National Park in Nevada and hike.

所以有一年，计划是去内华达州的大盆地国家公园徒步旅行。

And whenever the family would go to a national park, they always liked to do at least one really strenuous and difficult hike as part of the trip.

每当一家人去国家公园时，他们总是喜欢在旅行中至少进行一次非常艰苦且困难的徒步旅行。

And on this trip, they decided to climb to the top of Wheeler Peak.

而这次旅行，他们决定攀登惠勒峰的山顶。

Tom researched this in advance, of course.

当然，汤姆事先对此进行了研究。

And the trail starts 10,000 feet up and you climb 3,000 feet.

步道起点为 10,000 英尺，您可攀登 3,000 英尺。

The one thing that I remember reading was that they said Wheeler is susceptible to changes in weather.

我记得读过的一件事是他们说惠勒容易受到天气变化的影响。

So I said, OK.

所以我说，好吧。

They said, so get out early.

他们说，所以早点出去。

So we got out early.

所以我们很早就出去了。

We got out at around 7 o'clock in the morning.

我们早上7点左右就出来了。

Of course, he checked the weather forecast for the day.

当然，他也查了当天的天气预报。

And I remember there was a 10% chance of thunderstorms, but later in the afternoon.

我记得有 10% 的可能性会出现雷暴，但是是在下午晚些时候。

So I thought, OK, we could get up there by 10 o'clock.

所以我想，好吧，我们可以在 10 点之前到达那里。

We could stay 'til 11:00.

我们可以呆到 11:00。

Then we could come back down.

然后我们就可以下来了。

And avoid the trouble.

并避免麻烦。

Tom Correct.

汤姆 正确。

And so the best laid plans, as we later found out--

因此，正如我们后来发现的那样，最好的计划是——

We headed out on time.

我们准时出发了。

It was a beautiful day, probably about in the 70s, nice little breeze.

这是一个美好的一天，大约是在 70 年代，微风徐徐。

His two kids-- Mark, who was 20.

他的两个孩子——马克，20 岁。

Angela, who was 18-- sped ahead up the trail as usual.

18 岁的安吉拉像往常一样在小路上飞驰。

Tom and his wife, Marion, weren't that far behind.

汤姆和他的妻子玛丽恩也不甘落后。

And they're going up the switchbacks, just a lovely, perfect day-- until the two kids get hit by lightning.

他们正在爬上之字形公路，真是美好、完美的一天——直到两个孩子被闪电击中。

I don't remember seeing a bolt.

我不记得看到过螺栓。

I just remember seeing everything flash white.

我只记得看到一切都闪烁着白色。

This, of course, is Angela.

这当然是安吉拉。

And I learned this family's story from her when she worked here at our radio show.

当她在我们的广播节目中工作时，我从她那里了解到了这个家庭的故事。

Basically, she and her brother got to the top of the mountain before their parents.

基本上，她和她的兄弟比父母先到达了山顶。

Dark clouds rolled in really fast.

乌云滚滚得真快。

Within minutes, it was hailing, the temperature dropped, and there was lightning.

几分钟之内，下起了冰雹，气温下降，还出现了闪电。

The strike which hit Angela and Mark wasn't a direct hit.

击中安吉拉和马克的攻击并不是直接命中。

It probably hit some boulders next to them.

它可能击中了他们旁边的一些巨石。

What I felt was as if somebody took a bottle and slammed it onto my head.

我的感觉就好像有人拿起一个瓶子，把它砸在我的头上。

I remember my arms flying up, as though I was a puppet and somebody draws the string.

我记得我的手臂飞了起来，就好像我是一个木偶，有人拉着绳子。

And we were knocked down.

我们被击倒了。

I remember falling on my butt.

我记得我屁股着地。

And my brother, he describes it as getting tackled, just this feeling of being physically overcome, rather than an electric current running through your body.

我的兄弟，他将其描述为被解决，只是这种身体被克服的感觉，而不是电流穿过你的身体。

And we were just freaking out.

我们简直吓坏了。

We were like, what the hell just happened?

我们当时想，到底发生了什么？

Screaming, screaming, cursing, cursing.

尖叫，尖叫，咒骂，咒骂。

They run down the mountain towards their parents, who were just a little ways down the mountain, crouched like turtles low in some shrubs so they don't get struck by lightning, getting pelted by hail.

他们跑下山去找父母，他们的父母就在山下不远的地方，像乌龟一样蹲在灌木丛中，这样他们就不会被闪电击中，被冰雹袭击。

They have no idea this has happened to their kids.

他们不知道这种事发生在他们的孩子身上。

And Mark and Angela, we were waiting for them to come down.

马克和安吉拉，我们正在等他们下来。

And we're worried, as we could see the lightning striking.

我们很担心，因为我们可以看到闪电击中。

And you could see it almost sizzle as it hits the mountain.

当它撞到山上时，你几乎可以看到它发出嘶嘶声。

And we finally see them coming down the mountain.

我们终于看到他们下山了。

And I could see the lightning hitting the mountainside really close to where they are.

我可以看到闪电击中山腰，距离他们所在的地方非常近。

And I'm thinking, oh, my god.

我在想，哦，天啊。

My kids are going to get killed.

我的孩子们会被杀。

And that's when I thought, what a mistake I made here.

就在那时我想，我在这里犯了一个多么错误的错误。

I never planned for this.

我从来没有计划过这个。

And Marion, says, thank God you didn't get hit by lightning.

马里昂说，感谢上帝，你没有被闪电击中。

And Angela said, yeah, well, we did.

安吉拉说，是的，我们做到了。

The kids were shaken up, sore, but no serious injuries.

孩子们都受到惊吓，浑身酸痛，但没有受重伤。

I don't think I was particularly traumatized.

我不认为我受到了特别的创伤。

I get traumatized by people who are mean to me.

我会因为那些对我刻薄的人而受到伤害。

Lightning's not personal.

闪电不是个人的。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

The lightning wasn't like, Angela, you're ugly.

闪电并不像，安吉拉，你很丑。

The lightning was just doing its thing.

闪电只是在做它的事情。

Tom, meanwhile, felt two conflicting feelings.

与此同时，汤姆有两种相互矛盾的感觉。

On the one hand, he'd taken precautions.

一方面，他采取了预防措施。

He'd checked the weather.

他查了天气。

He had a spreadsheet.

他有一个电子表格。

He knew he had planned as well as he could.

他知道他已经尽力计划好了。

But at the same time, he felt a lot of guilt for putting the kids in that situation.

但与此同时，他对让孩子们陷入这种境地感到非常内疚。

Yeah, I felt very badly about that.

是的，我对此感到非常难过。

And for the next couple of weeks, I would wake up at night, thinking about what I saw and what happened and the peril I put everybody in.

在接下来的几周里，我会在晚上醒来，思考我所看到的、发生的事情以及我给每个人带来的危险。

After this trip, he said, any day he took the family out for a hike--

他说，这次旅行之后，他每天都会带家人出去远足——

I would make sure that, weather-wise, we were pretty much in the clear.

我会确保，从天气角度来看，我们几乎没有任何问题。

Although, like I said, we were pretty much in the clear for this day too.

不过，正如我所说，这一天我们也很顺利。

Yeah, how could you be more in the clear than you were that day?

是啊，你怎么可能比那天更清楚呢？

You were in the clear.

你本来是清白的。

It was 10% chance of rain in the afternoon.

下午下雨的可能性为 10%。

It doesn't barely get better than that.

它并没有比这更好。

That's pretty good.

那很好。

Yeah.

是的。

And I think the other thing is, when you're on a vacation and you know you're not coming back to this place anytime soon or ever again, well, I guess you might roll the dice a little bit more.

我认为另一件事是，当你在度假时，你知道你不会很快或再也不会回到这个地方，那么，我想你可能会再冒险一点。

I know, but you weren't rolling the dice.

我知道，但你没有掷​​骰子。

You had 10% chance of precipitation.

降水的可能性为 10%。

It's funny.

很有趣。

I feel like, listening to you talk about this, you do seem like you feel like you could have done something.

我觉得，听你谈论这件事，你似乎确实觉得你可以做点什么。

But it really doesn't seem like there's anything you could have done.

但看起来确实没有什么你可以做的。

[LAUGHS] Tom You got to be guilty about something, right?

[笑]汤姆 你一定对某事感到内疚，对吧？

The Italian Catholic education, you got to be guilty about something.

意大利天主教教育，你必须对某些事情感到内疚。

OK.

好的。

So with respect to everybody's religious education right now, ladies and gentlemen, sometimes you make a plan, and random stuff happens that you really could not have anticipated.

因此，就目前每个人的宗教教育而言，女士们先生们，有时您制定了计划，然后随机发生的事情是您无法预料的。

Today on our program, we have stories of people making very reasonable, very sound plans that emphatically do not work out for them.

今天，在我们的节目中，我们看到人们制定了非常合理、非常健全的计划，但显然对他们来说并不奏效。

As somebody once said, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

正如有人曾经说过的，没有人会想到西班牙宗教裁判所。

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

This American Life, Act One, Forces Outside Our Control.

《美国生活》第一幕的力量超出了我们的控制。

April was going to be their month-- I mean the April that just passed, a couple of months ago.

四月将是他们的月份——我指的是几个月前刚刚过去的四月。

This couple had been waiting years for this.

这对夫妇为此等了很多年。

They'd been long distance for an insanely long time, six years.

他们已经异地很长一段时间了，六年了。

Then they both moved to New York, got married.

然后他们都搬到了纽约，结婚了。

But he was in school.

但他当时在学校。

Now, finally, he was out.

现在，他终于出来了。

And they were at that moment as a young couple, when you're excited for your life to really kick in.

他们当时还是一对年轻夫妇，你为自己的生活真正开始感到兴奋。

She was pregnant, working full time as a dentist, just three weeks away from maternity leave.

她怀孕了，全职做牙医，距离产假只剩下三周了。

He had finished grad school in December.

十二月他完成了研究生学业。

She was 28.

她28岁。

He was 30.

他30岁了。

Noor and Mahmoud-- our story begins in March.

努尔和马哈茂德——我们的故事从三月开始。

It was a transitional phase, for sure.

当然，这是一个过渡阶段。

Mahmoud had just got a job offer, so he was going to start his job.

马哈茂德刚刚得到一份工作机会，所以他要开始工作了。

And it was kind of like a transition from-- because when Mahmoud was in school, I was the one who was working.

这有点像从——因为当马哈茂德在学校时，我是一个在工作的人。

Exactly.

确切地。

Mahmoud And Noor would go to work.

马哈茂德和努尔会去上班。

So I would do all the house stuff.

所以我会做所有的家务事。

I would cook.

我会做饭。

Noor would come, like, at 6:00, 7:00.

努尔大概会在 6:00、7:00 来。

We would eat dinner and just, like, Reba.

我们会一起吃晚饭，就像Reba一样。

Watch Reba.

关注热巴。

[LAUGHS] Ira Glass You know, Reba, the sitcom from the early 2000s with country music star, Reba McEntire.

[笑] Ira Glass 你知道，《Reba》，是 2000 年代初期由乡村音乐明星 Reba McEntire 主演的情景喜剧。

I know, very random.

我知道，非常随机。

Yeah, Reba was the show we were watching.

是的，热巴就是我们正在看的节目。

No, like an easy, lighthearted, fun show.

不，就像一场轻松、轻松、有趣的表演。

Basically.

基本上。

[LAUGHS] I choose the Netflix shows that we are going to watch, so yeah.

[笑] 我选择我们要观看的 Netflix 节目，所以是的。

But you liked it.

但你喜欢它。

I mean, it's a background show so-- no, no, I mean--

我是说，这是一个背景表演，所以——不，不，我是说——

OK, I'm kind of slow playing an important fact about these two people, and maybe it's time to be less coy about that.

好吧，我有点慢吞吞地讲述了关于这两个人的一个重要事实，也许是时候少些含糊其辞了。

Mahmoud is Mahmoud Khalil.

马哈茂德就是马哈茂德·哈利勒。

And the thing that had interrupted the plan for April is something you might have heard of.

你可能听说过打乱四月计划的事情。

In March, he became the test case, the pioneer, the very first student protester that the Trump administration detained and tried to deport because of his participation in student protests.

今年三月，他成为测试案例、先锋，也是特朗普政府因参与学生抗议活动而拘留并试图驱逐出境的第一个学生抗议者。

There was a video that Noor filmed of officers arresting him in the lobby of the student housing.

努尔拍摄了一段警察在学生宿舍大厅逮捕他的视频。

Maybe you saw this.

也许你看到了这个。

He's standing by the mailboxes when they put handcuffs on him.

当他们给他戴上手铐时，他正站在邮箱旁。

OK, OK.

好的，好的。

He's not resisting.

他没有反抗。

He's giving me his phone, OK?

他把他的电话给我了，好吗？

He's not-- I understand.

他不是——我明白。

Put your arms-- Noor You guys really don't need to be doing all of that.

伸出你的手臂——Noor 你们真的不需要做所有这些。

Put your arms-- Ira Glass In the video, Mahmoud's back is to the camera.

伸出你的手臂——艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在视频中，马哈茂德背对着镜头。

And he looks back towards Noor to comfort her, even though he's the one being arrested.

他回头看着努尔安慰她，尽管他是被捕的人。

It's fine.

没关系。

It's fine.

没关系。

Habibi, it's fine.

哈比比，还好啦

Come on.

快点。

He says, it's fine.

他说，没关系。

It's fine.

没关系。

Habibi, it's fine.

哈比比，还好啦

OK.

好的。

Ira Glass Noor gets on the phone with a lawyer.

艾拉·格拉斯·诺尔 (Ira Glass Noor) 与律师通电话。

Hi, Amy.

嗨，艾米。

Yeah.

是的。

They just handcuffed him and took him.

他们只是给他戴上手铐并带走了他。

I don't know what to do.

我不知道该怎么办。

And what should I do?

我该怎么办？

I don't know.

我不知道。

The video got a lot of attention, partly because it was the first video of a student arrested like this-- plainclothes officers, without a warrant, putting him into an unmarked vehicle, not answering basic questions.

这段视频引起了广泛关注，部分原因是这是第一次有学生被这样逮捕的视频——便衣警察在没有逮捕令的情况下，将他塞进一辆没有标记的车辆，没有回答基本问题。

Can we get a name, please, of-- Can we get your name?

我们可以知道您的名字吗？

I understand.

我明白。

The lawyer is asking for your name.

律师正在询问你的姓名。

Get back please.

请回来吧。

Over there.

在那边。

Officer 2 We don't give our names.

警官 2 我们不透露姓名。

He's saying they don't give their names.

他说他们没有透露自己的名字。

Mahmoud later said it felt like a kidnapping.

马哈茂德后来说，这感觉就像一场绑架。

Part of what was so shocking about it at the time was the fact that Mahmoud Khalil was not here on a student visa or some kind of temporary status.

当时令人震惊的部分原因是，马哈茂德·哈利勒并不是以学生签证或某种临时身份来到这里。

He's a permanent legal resident with a green card, married to a US citizen with a baby on the way, not the kind of person we thought of as a candidate for deportation at the time, long, long ago, back in March.

他是拥有绿卡的永久合法居民，与一名美国公民结婚，孩子即将出生，而不是我们当时认为的那种被驱逐出境的人，很久很久以前，早在三月份。

Since then, the government has attempted to revoke or terminate the visas of over 6,000 students.

此后，政府已试图撤销或终止 6,000 多名学生的签证。

And Mahmoud Khalil became a symbol, exhibit A for the aggressive new tactics that the administration is using to crack down on dissent.

马哈茂德·哈利勒 (Mahmoud Khalil) 成为了一个象征，即政府用来镇压异见的激进新策略。

His case will help determine whether the president and secretary of state have the power to kick somebody out of the country for protesting, or anything else they think runs counter to the policy goals of the United States.

他的案件将有助于确定总统和国务卿是否有权将抗议者驱逐出该国，或者他们认为任何其他与美国政策目标背道而驰的行为。

Here at our show, we started working on a story about Mahmoud back in March, in the early days when he was still in detention.

在我们的节目中，我们从三月份开始制作有关马哈茂德的故事，当时他还被拘留。

At the time, some of the most powerful people in the country-- the president and the Speaker of the House-- were calling him an aspiring young terrorist and a mastermind of student violence, a radical, foreign pro-Hamas student.

当时，该国一些最有权势的人——总统和众议院议长——称他为有抱负的年轻恐怖分子、学生暴力的策划者、激进的亲哈马斯的外国学生。

It was all so cartoonish.

一切都是那么卡通化。

It made me wonder what the reality was.

这让我想知道现实是什么。

Who was this man-- Mahmoud Khalil?

这个人是谁——马哈茂德·哈利勒？

And to figure that out, I teamed up with a reporter, Suzanne Gaber, who covered the Columbia protests and travels in some of the same circles as Mahmoud Khalil and his wife.

为了弄清楚这一点，我与记者苏珊娜·加伯（Suzanne Gaber）合作，她报道了哥伦比亚的抗议活动，并与马哈茂德·哈利勒（Mahmoud Khalil）和他的妻子在一些相同的圈子里旅行。

And we interviewed people around Mahmoud Khalil who know him, who described him as a very particular kind of person, somebody who asks a lot of questions, someone who chooses his words with a lot of care.

我们采访了马哈茂德·哈利勒周围认识他的人，他们形容他是一个非常特别的人，一个会问很多问题的人，一个非常谨慎地选择言语的人。

But while he was in detention, the government stopped us and other reporters from interviewing him.

但在他被拘留期间，政府阻止我们和其他记者采访他。

He came out in June and we talked to him, finally.

他六月份出来了，我们终于和他谈过了。

The Trump administration and rightwing media were still describing him as a menace to society.

特朗普政府和右翼媒体仍然将他描述为对社会的威胁。

On the left, he was seen as kind of a folk hero.

在左翼看来，他被视为民间英雄。

But not a lot has been written about who he really is or what it's been like for him to live through this from day to day-- his arrest, his detention, his new international notoriety.

但关于他的真实身份以及他日复一日经历的事情——他的被捕、他的拘留、他新的国际恶名——的报道并不多。

And I'm going to bring Suzanne Gaber on now to present this story with me from this point forward.

从现在起，我将邀请苏珊娜·加伯（Suzanne Gaber）与我一起讲述这个故事。

Hey there, Suze.

嘿，苏泽。

Hey.

嘿。

So yeah, like you said, before the arrest, Mahmoud and Noor were at this turning point in their lives that they'd been planning for years.

所以，是的，就像你说的，在被捕之前，马哈茂德和努尔正处于他们多年来计划的人生转折点。

And specifically, they were focused on two dates coming up in April, just weeks away-- the due date for the new baby, and Mahmoud was about to start a new job, his first job after grad school.

具体来说，他们关注的是 4 月份即将到来的两个日期，即几周后的日子——新生儿的预产期，而马哈茂德即将开始一份新工作，这是他研究生毕业后的第一份工作。

And that moment, before all this happened-- one of their friends described it nicely to us.

那一刻，在这一切发生之前——他们的一位朋友向我们描述了这一切。

Her name's Jasmine Sarryeh.

她的名字叫茉莉花·萨里。

Mahmoud and Nour suggested we talk to her.

马哈茂德和努尔建议我们和她谈谈。

She started as Mahmoud's friend.

她一开始是马哈茂德的朋友。

They're both Palestinian.

他们都是巴勒斯坦人。

They were at Columbia grad school together.

他们一起在哥伦比亚研究生院。

But then she got close to Noor too.

但后来她也和努尔走得很近。

She was the witness at their wedding.

她是他们婚礼的见证人。

Jasmine and Mahmoud were both involved in the Columbia student protests against the war in Gaza.

茉莉花和马哈茂德都参与了哥伦比亚学生反对加沙战争的抗议活动。

And Jasmine pointed out that in the months before Mahmoud's arrest, he was winding down his student activism.

茉莉花指出，在马哈茂德被捕前的几个月里，他正在逐渐减少学生的活动。

And I think me and Noor were sort of like, OK, now that Mahmoud's graduated, I was like, oh, Mahmoud's finally going to step into the real world and see what it's-- the crushing blow of having to work 9:00 to 5:00 and not-- so sometimes she would say things like-- like any wife would.

我想我和努尔有点像，好吧，现在马哈茂德毕业了，我想，哦，马哈茂德终于要走进现实世界，看看它是什么了——必须在 9:00 到 5:00 工作的沉重打击——所以有时她会说这样的话——就像任何妻子都会说的那样。

And I don't want to make her seem like she's not supportive, because she is.

我不想让她看起来不支持，因为她确实支持。

But like, you need to be more present here.

但就像，你需要更多地出现在这里。

And he was.

他确实是。

He really was at the end.

他真的已经走到了最后。

We were talking about apartment hunting.

我们正在谈论找公寓的事情。

And we were going to throw her a baby shower.

我们准备为她举办迎婴派对。

And he was always talking baby stuff after he graduated.

毕业后他总是在谈论婴儿的事情。

When it comes to getting these big, lifechanging plans in motion, Noor and Mahmoud seemed like they have a pretty equal partnership.

当谈到实施这些改变生活的重大计划时，努尔和马哈茂德似乎有着相当平等的伙伴关系。

They both say she's the worrier.

他们都说她是最担心的人。

He's the calm one.

他是那个冷静的人

She's the organized one.

她是有组织的人。

And he's nonchalant, as he puts it.

正如他所说，他很冷漠。

Do you want to tell them how you procrastinated your British embassy application?

您想告诉他们您是如何拖延英国大使馆申请的吗？

[LAUGHS] Let me tell you that story.

[笑]让我告诉你这个故事。

What she's talking about here is something that happened years ago, when he was living in Lebanon and he applied for a job.

她在这里谈论的是几年前发生的事情，当时他住在黎巴嫩，他正在申请一份工作。

This is before he came to America.

这是他来美国之前的事。

And this turns out to be one of those stories that all couples have, where one partner tells it to prove a perhaps unflattering point about the other partner.

事实证明，这是所有夫妻都会经历的故事之一，其中一方讲述这个故事是为了证明另一方可能有一些不讨人喜欢的观点。

And the way this came up is that, in our interview, Mahmoud mentioned in passing that he procrastinates sometimes.

出现这个问题的方式是，在我们的采访中，马哈茂德顺便提到他有时会拖延。

And that's when Noor busted out with--

就在那时，努尔爆发了——

Let me tell you that story.

让我告诉你这个故事。

He saw this job, and he was like.

他看到了这份工作，他很喜欢。

I need to apply.

我需要申请。

And he kept procrastinating and procrastinating and procrastinating.

而且他一直在拖延、拖延、拖延。

And then--

然后——

Noor freaks out.

努尔吓坏了。

And that-- Noor I do, yeah.

努尔，我愿意，是的。

Just let me be.

就让我这样吧。

Noor Yes.

努尔 是的。

And then it came to the day where he was supposed to put in the application, and he missed the deadline.

然后到了他应该提交申请的那一天，他错过了截止日期。

It was their fault, though.

但这是他们的错。

Noor OK.

努尔 好的。

Please tell me how it's their fault.

请告诉我这怎么是他们的错。

What's usually the deadline?

通常截止日期是什么时候？

It's, like, 11:59.

大概是 11 点 59 分。

For that specific job, it was 11:55.

对于该特定作业，时间为 11:55。

So I go to click Submit, like, 11:57.

所以我点击“提交”，例如 11:57。

And then they say, oh, you missed the deadline.

然后他们说，哦，你错过了最后期限。

And I was like--

我当时想——

And of course, I was like, I told you.

当然，我就像，我告诉过你了。

Apply earlier.

早点申请。

In the end, they extended the deadline for everybody.

最后，他们延长了每个人的截止日期。

He got the job and worked at it for four years.

他得到了这份工作并工作了四年。

So it's March of this year.

就这样，今年三月了。

They're on the cusp of this new life.

他们正处于新生活的风口浪尖。

And Mahmoud gets detained on March 8.

马哈茂德于 3 月 8 日被拘留。

ICE officers flew him from New York to Louisiana.

ICE 官员将他从纽约飞往路易斯安那州。

He ended up 1,400 miles away in a facility in a remote town called Jena.

他最终来到了 1,400 英里外一个名叫耶拿的偏远小镇的一处设施中。

He lived in a big room with 70 ICE detainees, bunk beds, three urinals, three toilets in that same room, no privacy, lights always on.

他住在一个大房间里，里面有 70 名 ICE 被拘留者，同一个房间里有双层床、三个小便池、三个厕所，没有隐私，灯一直亮着。

Noor sent Jasmine to visit him because she was too pregnant to go herself.

努尔派茉莉花去看他，因为她怀孕了，不能自己去。

He probably wasn't being fully honest with her, which I think anyone wouldn't be, right?

他可能没有对她完全诚实，我想任何人都不会，对吧？

You'd want to say, like, oh, I'm fine.

你会想说，哦，我很好。

I'm fine.

我很好。

When I went to see him in Louisiana, I was so worried because he was telling me he wasn't eating.

当我去路易斯安那州看他时，我非常担心，因为他告诉我他没有吃饭。

And he was saying he was really cold and he wasn't sleeping.

他说他真的很冷而且他没有睡觉。

Mahmoud's always put together.

马哈茂德总是在一起。

You can see lots of pictures of him in suits.

你可以看到很多他穿西装的照片。

And his hair was a mess.

而且他的头发乱糟糟的。

And his skin was kind of peeling.

而且他的皮肤有点脱皮。

And I knew that he has a special shampoo and eczema lotion that he uses on his face.

我知道他有一种特殊的洗发水和湿疹乳液，可以用在脸上。

And he just looked different.

他只是看起来不一样了。

When Mahmoud describes his time, it's nowhere as dark.

当马哈茂德描述他的时代时，一切都没有那么黑暗。

He was able to call Noor.

他能够给努尔打电话。

He talked a lot to his lawyers, helped other prisoners with their paperwork and cases.

他与律师谈了很多，帮助其他囚犯处理文书工作和案件。

And everybody around him says that he was always optimistic about his case.

他周围的每个人都说他对自己的案子一直很乐观。

He believed he hadn't done anything wrong.

他相信自己没有做错任何事。

And he trusted that the US is a place with rules and laws.

他相信美国是一个有规则和法律的地方。

That was definitely not true where he grew up.

在他长大的地方，情况绝对不是这样。

His childhood was in a refugee camp in Syria, where, as a teenager, he'd protested the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

他的童年是在叙利亚的一个难民营中度过的，青少年时期他曾在那里抗议巴沙尔·阿萨德政权。

Two friends of his were disappeared.

他的两个朋友失踪了。

At those protests--

在那些抗议活动中——

It's not that the police would come and arrest you.

并不是说警察会来逮捕你。

It's that the police would come and kill you.

就是警察会来杀了你。

That was the stakes.

这就是赌注。

So you're literally walking to your death in these demonstrations.

所以在这些示威活动中你实际上是在走向死亡。

Do you think that you were so calm when you saw that the White House was tweeting about you because it had been so much more dangerous for you, doing activism in Syria when you were young?

当你看到白宫在推特上谈论你时，你是否认为你如此平静，因为你年轻时在叙利亚从事激进活动对你来说要危险得多？

I haven't thought about it.

我还没想过。

But my early years, growing up in the refugee camp, literally living under bombardments for an extended period of time, that whole experience, I think, made me more-- I wouldn't call it resilient.

但我早年在难民营长大，实际上长期生活在轰炸之下，我认为整个经历让我变得更加——我不会称之为韧性。

It's just--

这只是——

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, yeah.

我的意思是，是的。

It's not a very healthy resilience, I know.

我知道，这不是一种非常健康的恢复力。

It's hard to imagine now.

现在很难想象。

But when he was first detained, Mahmoud still thought maybe this wouldn't be a huge disruption.

但当他第一次被拘留时，马哈茂德仍然认为这可能不会造成巨大的干扰。

They'd get their lives back and he'd be out in time for those two dates in April, the start of his new job and the baby's due date.

他们会恢复正常生活，而他会及时赶上四月的那两次约会，即他新工作的开始和孩子的预产期。

The job was with Oxfam, the humanitarian aid group, doing policy at the United Nations, focusing specifically on the Middle East and the Palestinian territories.

这项工作是在人道主义援助组织乐施会工作，在联合国制定政策，特别关注中东和巴勒斯坦领土。

It was exactly the kind of job he'd been working towards for years.

这正是他多年来一直努力的工作。

He'd worked in Lebanon for a group that ran schools for refugees, taught himself English, did similar work for refugees at the British embassy, and then got himself into Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs.

他曾在黎巴嫩为一个为难民开办学校的组织工作，自学英语，在英国大使馆为难民做类似的工作，然后进入哥伦比亚大学国际与公共事务学院。

The start date was coming up, April 1.

开课日期即将到来，即 4 月 1 日。

And when he was arrested, it probably would have been good employee etiquette to contact his future bosses at Oxfam, but he figured that they had heard.

当他被捕时，联系乐施会未来的老板可能是良好的员工礼仪，但他认为他们已经听到了。

He and Noor talked all the time on the phone when he was in detention.

在努尔被拘留期间，他和努尔一直通电话。

And she had access to his email.

她还可以访问他的电子邮件。

And he would ask her, did they email?

他会问她，他们发邮件了吗？

Did they email?

他们发电子邮件了吗？

Remember, baby on the way-- they were anxious to become a two-income household.

请记住，即将出生的宝贝——他们渴望成为双收入家庭。

They heard nothing.

他们什么也没听到。

His start date came and went.

他的开始日期来了又去了。

And two days later, an email arrived, rescinding the job offer.

两天后，一封电子邮件到达，取消了工作机会。

Noor read me the email.

努尔读了我的电子邮件。

That was very, very disappointing.

这真是非常非常令人失望。

Mahmoud and Noor assume that if he hadn't been arrested by the Trump administration, he would still have the job, that it would be hard for Oxfam or for any group doing development work to hire somebody that the White House named as a terrorist sympathizer.

马哈茂德和努尔认为，如果他没有被特朗普政府逮捕，他仍然会保住这份工作，乐施会或任何从事开发工作的团体都很难雇用被白宫称为恐怖分子同情者的人。

Oxfam declined our request for an interview about this.

乐施会拒绝了我们就此进行采访的请求。

It was April 3 that Mahmoud heard he lost the job.

4 月 3 日，马哈茂德听说自己失业了。

The baby was due April 28.

预产期是 4 月 28 日。

Noor told me that she had a deep fear about giving birth alone.

努尔告诉我，她对独自分娩深感恐惧。

And everyone kept telling her, don't worry.

每个人都一直告诉她，别担心。

Don't worry.

不用担心。

Your first baby is usually late.

你的第一个孩子通常会迟到。

Mahmoud will be out by then.

到那时马哈茂德就会出局。

Then she went into labor a week early, April 20.

然后她提前一周，即 4 月 20 日分娩。

Immediately, she called Mahmoud's lawyers.

她立即给马哈茂德的律师打电话。

It's happening.

它正在发生。

Try and get him out.

试着把他赶出去。

They asked for an emergency furlough, which prisons sometimes give in urgent family situations like this.

他们要求紧急休假，监狱有时会在像这样的紧急家庭情况下给予这种休假。

They hoped Mahmoud could fly to New York for just the birth with an ankle monitor and check-ins with the government.

他们希望马哈茂德能够带着脚踝监视器飞往纽约分娩，并向政府报到。

They were denied in less than an hour.

不到一个小时，他们就被拒绝了。

And they ended up in this situation that they both feared-- Noor in a hospital room without him.

他们最终陷入了他们都担心的情况——努尔在病房里，没有他。

He was on the phone, yes, which also, my doctor afterwards-- she's like, every time I saw you talking on the phone, I got so sad.

他正在打电话，是的，这也是我后来的医生——她说，每次我看到你打电话，我都很伤心。

[LAUGHS] Yeah.

[笑]是的。

He was on the phone, giving moral support as much as he could.

他在电话里，尽其所能地提供道义上的支持。

I put headphones in and then-- yeah, the headphones were in my ear.

我戴上耳机，然后——是的，耳机就在我耳边。

It was 4:00 AM.

当时是凌晨 4:00。

Mahmoud's crouched on the floor in Louisiana.

马哈茂德蹲在路易斯安那州的地板上。

He's in a room with 70 detainees, and most of them were asleep.

他所在的房间里有 70 名被拘留者，其中大多数人都在睡觉。

So he whispered over the phone.

于是他在电话里低声说道。

And to me, it's just like, to me was just trying to really picture the room, Noor.

对我来说，这就像，对我来说，只是想真实地想象这个房间，努尔。

Is she fine?

她还好吗？

Because it was like a one-way call.

因为这就像一个单向呼叫。

No one is answering me.

没有人回答我。

Even when I talk to her, I don't know if she can hear it because she's in labor.

即使我和她说话，我也不知道她是否能听到，因为她正在临产。

So it felt like talking to the void.

所以感觉就像是在与虚空交谈。

But I still would speak supporting words to Noor.

但我仍然会对努尔说支持的话。

He was trying as best as he could, just support, like, oh, you're doing good.

他尽了最大努力，只是支持，就像，哦，你做得很好。

You know, it's happening, habibti, just a little bit more, a little bit more.

你知道，它正在发生，habibti，只是多一点，多一点。

At one point, my headphones fell out, so I wasn't hearing him anymore.

有一次，我的耳机掉了，所以我再也听不到他的声音了。

And obviously, you're pushing.

显然，你正在推动。

You're in labor.

你正在临产。

I'm not thinking about, oh, let me put the headphones back in.

我没有考虑，哦，让我把耳机放回去。

But my mom ended up taking the phone.

但我妈妈最终还是接了电话。

And he was like, oh, put her on the phone.

他就像，哦，让她接电话。

And my mom's trying to give me the phone so I can listen.

我妈妈想把电话给我，这样我就可以听。

And I was like, no. I'm dying at this point.

我当时想，不。我此时快要死了。

Her mom put the phone close enough to her ear so that she could hear him.

她妈妈把电话放在离她耳朵足够近的地方，这样她就能听到他的声音。

Every 45 minutes, the phone line would cut out because the detention center limits the length of phone calls.

每隔45分钟，电话就会断线，因为看守所限制通话时长。

So he'd call back, hoping they would answer.

所以他会回电话，希望他们能回复。

A couple of times, they did not answer me, because they forgot the phone-- it was on the side-- until they saw that, actually, it was hung up and now I'm calling again.

有几次，他们没有接听我，因为他们忘记了电话——电话在一边——直到他们看到，实际上，电话已经挂断了，现在我又打电话了。

When the baby was finally born, a boy they named Deen, they took the phone and put it to his ear.

当孩子终于出生时，他们给他起名叫迪恩（Deen），他们把电话放在他耳边。

In Muslim families, the father will often recite the adhan, the call to prayer, right after the baby is born, welcoming them into the world.

在穆斯林家庭中，父亲经常会在婴儿出生后立即背诵adhan（呼唤祈祷），欢迎他们来到这个世界。

Mahmoud had thought about that moment a lot.

马哈茂德对那一刻想了很多。

I can't describe it, how important, that to me.

我无法描述它对我来说有多重要。

More than religiously, it's culturally, to have the father to call the adhan.

让父亲来宣礼，这不仅仅是宗教上的，也是文化上的。

It's just my first time for him to hear my voice.

这是我第一次让他听到我的声音。

But that was really difficult.

但这真的很难。

My voice would crack while I'm reciting in Deen's ear.

当我在迪恩耳边朗诵时，我的声音会沙哑。

Yeah, I can't imagine.

是的，我无法想象。

Was that the most emotional you'd been in detention?

这是你在拘留期间最情绪化的一次吗？

I believe so.

我相信是这样。

I don't think there's words to describe it.

我认为没有言语可以形容它。

The fact that we literally dreamed about this moment for so long-- it just felt very cruel that this happened to us, to have this moment stolen.

事实上，我们真的梦想着这一刻这么久——这件事发生在我们身上，让这一刻被偷走，感觉非常残酷。

Two days later, Noor's mom and sister took her home from the hospital.

两天后，努尔的妈妈和姐姐把她从医院接回家。

They went to park the car.

他们去停车。

She took Deen upstairs.

她带着迪恩上楼。

So when I first came into the apartment, I was by myself, very quiet.

所以当我第一次进公寓时，我一个人，非常安静。

And I put him down in his car seat, just on the kitchen floor.

我把他放在汽车座椅上，就在厨房地板上。

And we got home around sunset.

我们在日落时分回到家。

And the sunset was beautiful.

日落很美。

It was like this-- I mean, you can see my apartment.

事情是这样的——我的意思是，你可以看到我的公寓。

There's a lot of sun that comes in.

有很多阳光进来。

And it was just shining into our apartment.

它刚刚照进我们的公寓。

I had this beautiful baby.

我有这个漂亮的宝宝。

And then it was just quiet in the apartment.

然后公寓里就安静了。

Mahmoud was not there.

马哈茂德不在那儿。

And that's when it hit me.

就在那时，我受到了打击。

And then I just started crying.

然后我就开始哭了。

And I'm just looking at Deen in his car seat.

我只是看着坐在汽车座椅上的迪恩。

He was sleeping so peacefully.

他睡得那么安详。

I was upset.

我很沮丧。

I was so mad.

我很生气。

It was not the way I had imagined, and it was not the way that we had talked about.

这不是我想象的方式，也不是我们谈论的方式。

So it was a very frustrating day, I think.

所以我认为这是非常令人沮丧的一天。

So April 3, Mahmoud didn't get the new job.

所以4月3日，马哈茂德没有得到新工作。

April 21, the baby came, and he wasn't there.

4月21日，孩子出生了，但他不在。

He was still in detention.

他仍被拘留。

And it wasn't clear when or if he'd get out.

目前尚不清楚他何时或是否会离开。

This is as good a spot as any to talk about the charges that were keeping Mahmoud in detention and upending his life and to talk about the stakes of this case for the whole country.

这是一个很好的场合，可以谈论导致马哈茂德被拘留并改变他生活的指控，并谈论此案对整个国家的利害关系。

Traditionally, of course, the kind of thing that Mahmoud did-- he was part of student protests-- would have been seen as being protected by the Constitution.

当然，传统上，马哈茂德所做的事情——他是学生抗议的一部分——会被视为受到宪法的保护。

It's part of our right to free speech.

这是我们言论自由权的一部分。

But the argument that the administration is making in court is that the secretary of state has the power to decide if somebody's presence in the United States undermines US foreign policy and then kick them out of the country.

但政府在法庭上提出的论点是，国务卿有权决定某人在美国的存在是否破坏了美国的外交政策，然后将其驱逐出该国。

This is based on an immigration law enacted at the height of McCarthyism in the 1950s.

这是基于 20 世纪 50 年代麦卡锡主义鼎盛时期颁布的移民法。

And the things that the administration believes that Mahmoud Khalil has done that merit getting kicked out of the country, that would override his right to free speech, those things actually are not spelled out in the government's filings in the case.

政府认为马哈茂德·哈利勒已经做了功绩，被赶出了该国，这将凌驾于他的言论自由权之上，但这些事情实际上并没有在该案的政府文件中详细说明。

But when White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt tried to explain how Mahmoud undermines US policy at a press conference, she said, Mahmoud first came here to study.

但当白宫新闻秘书卡罗琳·莱维特试图在新闻发布会上解释马哈茂德如何破坏美国政策时，她说，马哈茂德首先来这里是为了学习。

And he took advantage of that opportunity, of that privilege, by siding with terrorists, Hamas terrorists who have killed innocent men, women, and children.

他利用了这个机会、这个特权，与杀害无辜男女和儿童的恐怖分子、哈马斯恐怖分子站在一起。

This is an individual who organized group protests that not only disrupted college campus classes and harassed Jewish-American students and made them feel unsafe, but also distributed pro-Hamas propaganda, flyers with the logo of Hamas.

此人组织集体抗议活动，不仅扰乱大学校园课堂，骚扰犹太裔美国学生，让他们感到不安全，还散发亲哈马斯的宣传品、带有哈马斯标志的传单。

That is what the behavior and activity that this individual engaged in.

这就是这个人所从事的行为和活动。

That's what this individual distributed on the campus of Columbia University.

这就是这个人在哥伦比亚大学校园内分发的内容。

The White House has talked about pro-Hamas flyers distributed at some Columbia protests.

白宫谈到了在哥伦比亚的一些抗议活动中分发的支持哈马斯的传单。

Did you know about flyers like that?

你知道这样的传单吗？

I did not.

我没有。

There's absolutely no truth to these allegations at all.

这些指控完全没有事实依据。

Yeah, I would never.

是的，我永远不会。

For so many reasons, I would never do that, for so, so many reasons.

由于很多原因，我永远不会那样做，出于很多原因。

The protest is about ending the genocide and ending Colombia's complicity in war crimes.

抗议活动旨在结束种族灭绝并结束哥伦比亚在战争罪中的共谋行为。

That was about it.

就是这样。

Why would I bring such flyers?

我为什么要带这样的传单？

What would it do to the cause?

它会对事业产生什么影响？

The administration found a new line of attack on this subject this summer, when Mahmoud did not condemn Hamas in an interview on CNN and another interview on Ezra Klein's podcast, saying the question was a distraction and that he condemned the killing of all civilians.

今年夏天，政府在这个问题上发现了新的攻击路线，马哈茂德在接受 CNN 采访和埃兹拉·克莱因播客的另一次采访时没有谴责哈马斯，称这个问题分散了注意力，他谴责杀害所有平民。

The Department of Homeland Security posted in response, quote, "Mahmoud Khalil refuses to condemn Hamas because he is a terrorist sympathizer, not because DHS painted him as one." As for the administration's bigger point, that the protests themselves were antisemitic, Mahmoud says exactly what so many people say, that it's possible to criticize Israel's actions in Gaza without being either antisemitic or aligned with Hamas.

美国国土安全部回应称，“马哈茂德·哈利勒拒绝谴责哈马斯，因为他是一名恐怖分子同情者，而不是因为国土安全部把他描绘成恐怖分子的同情者。”至于政府更重要的观点，即抗议活动本身是反犹太主义的，马哈茂德所说的正是很多人所说的，即可以批评以色列在加沙的行动，但既不反犹太主义也不与哈马斯结盟。

One thing that's genuinely confusing about the administration's argument in all these student deportation cases is this idea that a student protester can somehow undermine US foreign policy.

政府在所有这些学生驱逐案件中的论点真正令人困惑的是，学生抗议者可以在某种程度上破坏美国的外交政策。

Like, what could that possibly mean?

就像，这可能意味着什么？

Sure, students were asking the government to change its foreign policy and not keep funding Israel.

当然，学生们要求政府改变外交政策，不要继续资助以色列。

But urging some policy change is just normal politics in the United States.

但敦促一些政策改变在美国只是正常的政治。

President Trump did it when he ran for office.

特朗普总统在竞选公职时就这么做了。

That is not undermining any policy.

这并没有破坏任何政策。

The only clue that the administration has given about what this might mean came in April, when the government submitted to the court a brief memo, from the secretary of state, saying that Mahmoud's presence in the United States, quote, "undermines US policy to combat antisemitism around the world and in the United States," but again, no explanation of how this one grad student, who is no longer a grad student, was achieving that lofty goal.

政府给出的关于这可能意味着什么的唯一线索是在四月份，当时政府向法院提交了一份来自国务卿的简短备忘录，称马哈茂德在美国的存在“破坏了美国在世界各地和美国打击反犹太主义的政策”，但同样没有解释这位不再是研究生的研究生是如何实现这一崇高目标的。

In fact, in immigration court, the administration argued that it should not have to make any kind of argument or explanation or present any evidence at all for how Mahmoud is undermining US foreign policy.

事实上，在移民法庭上，政府辩称，它不应该就马哈茂德如何破坏美国外交政策做出任何形式的论证或解释，或提供任何证据。

The government's lawyers argued that if the secretary of state says that that's true, then that's that, no discussion needed.

政府律师辩称，如果国务卿说那是真的，那就这样了，不需要讨论。

That's all that's required to deport him.

这就是驱逐他所需的一切。

If the government wins this case, presumably the secretary of state would be able to declare, without any explanation or any proof, lots of other people are deportable.

如果政府胜诉，国务卿大概可以在没有任何解释或任何证据的情况下宣布，许多其他人可以被驱逐出境。

I did reach out to both the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department, asking how Mahmoud's actions undermine US foreign policy.

我确实联系了国土安全部和国务院，询问马哈茂德的行为如何破坏美国的外交政策。

The furthest I got was this not-very-illuminating answer to my question from a senior State Department official.

我得到的最多的是一位国务院高级官员对我的问题给出的不太有启发性的答案。

Quote, "As you know, there's ongoing litigation with respect to this matter.

引用：“如您所知，有关此事的诉讼正在进行中。

However, our position is that the actions of the United States with respect to Mahmoud Khalil were correct and necessary and fully supported both by fact and by law."

然而，我们的立场是，美国针对马哈茂德·哈利勒的行动是正确和必要的，并得到事实和法律的充分支持。”

In May, a federal judge ruled that the law that the government is using to go after Mahmoud is unconstitutionally vague.

五月，一名联邦法官裁定，政府用来追捕马哈茂德的法律含糊不清，违宪。

And then in June, the judge said that Mahmoud was likely being targeted for deportation by the administration for exercising his First Amendment right to free speech.

然后在六月，法官表示，马哈茂德很可能因行使其第一修正案的言论自由权而成为政府驱逐出境的目标。

And he set him free.

他释放了他。

Mahmoud flew home to New York June 21 after 104 days in detention.

马哈茂德在被拘留 104 天后于 6 月 21 日飞回纽约。

When Noor and Deen greeted him at the airport, it was only the second time Mahmoud had seen his son in person.

当努尔和迪恩在机场迎接他时，这是马哈茂德第二次亲自见到他的儿子。

The first was in a cold courtroom in Louisiana.

第一次是在路易斯安那州一个寒冷的法庭里。

And from the moment he returned to New York, there was something new derailing the life he had and Noor had planned-- his own fame.

从他回到纽约的那一刻起，有一些新的事情打破了他和努尔计划的生活——他自己的名声。

Did you see Mahmoud Khalil?

你看到马哈茂德·哈利勒了吗？

Reporter Mahmoud Khalil.

记者马哈茂德·哈利勒。

Mahmoud Khalil.

马哈茂德·哈利勒。

Reporter Mahmoud Khalil back home in New York tonight.

记者马哈茂德·哈利勒今晚回到纽约的家中。

His second day in New York, he was mobbed like the Beatles at a rally near Columbia.

在纽约的第二天，他就像披头士乐队在哥伦比亚附近的一次集会上一样被围攻。

Security had to push people back.

保安不得不把人们推回去。

He gave a speech in front of a church, which his friend, Jasmine, decided to skip.

他在一座教堂前发表了演讲，但他的朋友茉莉花决定不参加。

She went inside the church and took care of Deen.

她走进教堂照顾迪恩。

But I wasn't going to watch him give a speech in front of people.

但我不想看他在人们面前发表演讲。

I don't know.

我不知道。

And he was like, why?

他说，为什么？

And I was like, I don't want to see people looking at you that way.

我当时想，我不想看到人们那样看你。

And Mahmoud-chella or Mahmoud Madness or whatever it was.

还有 Mahmoud-chella 或 Mahmoud Madness 或其他什么。

Does he seem different?

他看起来有什么不同吗？

Jasmine Sarryeh Yeah.

茉莉花·萨里耶 是的。

He's not focused.

他注意力不集中。

There's a weird distraction.

有一种奇怪的干扰。

He's like a figurehead.

他就像一个傀儡。

People know who he is.

人们知道他是谁。

There's a coffee shop near my house, and they have a big picture of Mahmoud on the door.

我家附近有一家咖啡店，门上挂着马哈茂德的大照片。

So I go there every day.

所以我每天都去那里。

And I'm like, oh, there's Mahmoud on the door.

我就想，哦，马哈茂德就在门口。

Or I went to Times Square for some ungodly reason in the subway.

或者我因为一些不正当的原因在地铁里去了时代广场。

And it's "Free Mahmoud" on one of the subway signs.

其中一个地铁标志上写着“释放马哈茂德”。

I don't know if he really understood-- I couldn't grapple with that idea that everybody knows who he is.

我不知道他是否真的理解——我无法接受每个人都知道他是谁的想法。

It's just a really strange thing for anybody to have to go through.

对于任何人来说，这都是一件非常奇怪的事情。

Is it hard to get your mind around, though, just how well known you are?

然而，你是否很难弄清楚自己到底有多出名？

I'm still comprehending that.

我仍然理解这一点。

So maybe I'm trying to push thinking about it.

所以也许我正在努力推动思考它。

And yeah, to be honest, I haven't contemplated that as of yet.

是的，说实话，我还没有考虑过这一点。

His fame-- it kind of annoys me, to be honest.

老实说，他的名气让我有点恼火。

[LAUGHS] Yeah.

[笑]是的。

What do you mean, annoys?

你这是什么意思，烦人吗？

Jasmine Sarryeh It's just a reminder of how absurd the whole situation is.

Jasmine Sarryeh 这只是提醒我们整个情况是多么荒谬。

He shouldn't be famous.

他不应该出名。

Nobody should know who he is.

没有人应该知道他是谁。

It doesn't make any sense.

这没有任何意义。

And that this reason why Mahmoud is famous is because something absurd happened that never should have happened.

马哈茂德之所以出名，是因为发生了一些不应该发生的荒谬事情。

Yeah, it annoys me.

是的，这让我很烦恼。

It makes me angry.

这让我很生气。

Because if he wanted this and voluntarily chose it, great.

因为如果他想要这个并自愿选择它，那就太好了。

But to have it forced upon him like that, I don't like it.

但这样强加给他，我不喜欢。

Mahmoud's fame infected everything about their lives.

马哈茂德的名声影响了他们生活的方方面面。

A few weeks after he was released, they were still living in Columbia student housing, an apartment they'd have to move out of soon.

他被释放几周后，他们仍然住在哥伦比亚大学的学生宿舍里，他们很快就必须搬出公寓。

Mahmoud was supposed to be finding an apartment for them.

马哈茂德本来应该为他们找一套公寓。

And he'd been putting it off.

而他却一直在拖延。

Yeah, I procrastinate a lot.

是的，我很拖延。

Noor hates that.

努尔讨厌这样。

We need to move in less than two weeks.

我们需要在不到两周的时间内搬家。

And here we are.

我们到了。

We don't have an apartment.

我们没有公寓。

Yeah, less than-- we need to move at the end of this month.

是的，不到——我们需要在本月底搬家。

Can you shop for apartments like normal people right now?

你现在可以像普通人一样购买公寓吗？

I have my cap, so-- Noor And he wears a cap all the time.

我有帽子，所以——努尔 他一直戴着帽子。

Oh, you have a cap, like you're in disguise.

哦，你有一顶帽子，就像你乔装打扮一样。

Mahmoud And it was funny.

马哈茂德 这很有趣。

One of the agents was like, I've seen you somewhere.

其中一位特工说，我在某处见过你。

I was like, maybe.

我当时想，也许吧。

I'm not sure.

我不知道。

Yeah.

是的。

So-- Suzanne Gaber He needs the disguise because there have been so many threats against them.

所以——苏珊·加伯（Suzanne Gaber） 他需要伪装，因为他们受到了很多威胁。

And he's recognized so often when he goes out without it.

当他不戴眼镜出门时，他经常被认出来。

When Noor walks on the street with baby Deen, people come up to her.

当努尔带着婴儿迪恩走在街上时，人们会向她走来。

One time, a stranger asked, is that Mahmoud Khalil's son?

有一次，一位陌生人问，那是马哈茂德·哈利勒的儿子吗？

She didn't know if it was going to be good or bad.

她不知道这会是好事还是坏事。

It's scary.

太可怕了。

And mostly, they've avoided leaving the apartment.

大多数情况下，他们都避免离开公寓。

And when Mahmoud does decide to go outside, it's to go to Washington to spend the day talking to members of Congress or to stand on stage in front of 3,000 people with comedian Ramy Youssef and New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani.

当马哈茂德决定外出时，他会去华盛顿与国会议员交谈一整天，或者与喜剧演员拉米·优素福 (Ramy Youssef) 和纽约市市长候选人佐赫兰·马姆达尼 (Zohran Mamdani) 一起站在舞台上，面对 3,000 人。

[CHEERING] Ira Glass This positive side of his fame, the fact that people pay attention to him, seems, for now, to be deeply outweighed by the negative side.

[欢呼]艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）他的名气的积极面，即人们对他的关注，目前看来，其消极面远远超过了他的名气。

Mahmoud told us that, given the choice, he would no question prefer the life that he was lining up for this year-- the job at Oxfam, being there for Deen's birth, and not being famous-- over the life that he's ended up in.

马哈茂德告诉我们，如果有选择的话，他毫无疑问会更喜欢今年准备的生活——在乐施会工作，在那里庆祝迪恩的出生，而不是出名——而不是他最终的生活。

Case in point, it is really not clear what kind of job he's going to be able to get.

举个例子，目前还不清楚他能找到什么样的工作。

How do you picture what kind of work you're going to be able to get now?

您如何想象您现在能够找到什么样的工作？

I'm trying to, as much as possible, to postpone having that conversation--

我正在尽可能地推迟那次谈话——

You're saying-- Mahmoud --with myself, just thinking, oh, now, I can't work for Oxfam or for an organization at the UN.

马哈茂德，你对我自己说，只是想，哦，现在，我不能为乐施会或联合国的某个组织工作。

And it's scary.

这很可怕。

And we did not have much money before my arrest.

在我被捕之前我们没有多少钱。

And until now, we don't have any money, to be honest.

老实说，到目前为止，我们还没有钱。

There are two different cases that are going to determine whether Mahmoud will be deported.

有两种不同的案件将决定马哈茂德是否会被驱逐出境。

One is in federal court and may be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court.

其中一个在联邦法院，可以一直上诉到最高法院。

The other is in immigration court.

另一个在移民法庭。

That one could be decided in a few months and could result in his expulsion.

这一决定可能会在几个月内做出，并可能导致他被开除。

If it does, the government says it'll either send him to Syria, where he was born but doesn't have citizenship, or to Algeria, where he's a citizen but has never lived.

如果确实如此，政府表示要么将他送往叙利亚（他出生在叙利亚，但没有公民身份），要么送往阿尔及利亚（他是阿尔及利亚公民，但从未在那里居住过）。

I was at a hearing in immigration court where they talked about where to send him.

我当时正在移民法庭参加听证会，他们讨论了把他送到哪里。

Four expert witnesses said if he were sent to either place, Mahmoud would be at great risk to be harmed or killed.

四名专家证人表示，如果马哈茂德被送往任何一个地方，他将面临受伤或死亡的巨大风险。

Probably the most heartwrenching moment of that hearing happened near the end of the day.

听证会中最令人心碎的时刻可能发生在当天快结束时。

Mahmoud said if he were deported, he wanted to go alone.

马哈茂德说，如果他被驱逐出境，他想一个人去。

He didn't want to expose Noor and Deen to any extra danger because of him.

他不想让Noor和Deen因为他而面临任何额外的危险。

When he said this in his testimony, I looked over, and I could see Noor crying.

当他在证词中说出这句话时，我看过去，看到努尔在哭。

Later, she told me this is how he always is, protective of her and his family, now Deen.

后来，她告诉我，他总是这样，保护她和他的家人，现在是迪恩。

It's sweet, she said, but sometimes she doesn't agree.

这很甜蜜，她说，但有时她并不同意。

And that's where this interruption in their plans has left them.

这就是他们计划的中断让他们陷入的境地。

They don't know if they'll end up here or abroad, together or apart.

他们不知道他们最终会在这里还是国外，在一起还是分开。

They're waiting to see what the new plan for their life is going to be.

他们正在等着看自己的生活有什么新计划。

Coming up, a 16-year-old plans a prank, and a complete stranger from Honduras ends up in a million-dollar deal.

接下来，一名 16 岁的年轻人策划了一场恶作剧，而一名来自洪都拉斯的陌生人最终达成了一笔价值百万美元的交易。

What could possibly go wrong with that?

这可能会出什么问题呢？

That's in a minute, Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

芝加哥公共广播电台，一会儿我们的节目就会继续。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program, Watch Out for That Tree-- stories of people who carefully, meticulously plan for one future, and then the plans are derailed by forces much bigger than they are.

今天的节目《小心那棵树》讲述了人们小心翼翼地规划未来的故事，但这些计划却被比他们强大得多的力量打乱了。

We have arrived at Act Two of our program.

我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。

Act Two, The Engineer.

第二幕，工程师。

The plan that goes a-kilter in this act is actually a prank, a prank done years ago by a child who has now grown up into an adult.

这一幕中失控的计划实际上是一个恶作剧，一个多年前的恶作剧，现在已经长大了。

His name's Kieran.

他的名字叫基兰。

As a kid growing up in England, he was obsessed with soccer.

作为在英国长大的孩子，他对足球着迷。

And his first baby pranks happened on the day that soccer teams in England finished adding new players to their rosters.

他的第一个婴儿恶作剧发生在英格兰足球队完成向名单添加新球员的那天。

This always got live TV coverage.

这总是得到电视直播。

Kieran and his friend would head down to where the cameras were set up, doing live news spots.

基兰和他的朋友会前往安装摄像机的地方，进行现场新闻报道。

And we'd walk over, and we'd just stare really blankly into the camera, like yokels that hadn't seen technology before.

我们走过去，只是茫然地盯着镜头，就像以前没有见过科技的乡巴佬一样。

And then we'd rush back, and we'd see if anyone had seen it on TV and be like, oh, my god.

然后我们会冲回来，看看是否有人在电视上看过它，然后说，哦，天哪。

Who are those freaks in the back?

后面那些怪人是谁？

And that was us.

那就是我们。

But then when they got to middle-school age, they got more ambitious with their pranking.

但到了中学年龄，他们的恶作剧变得更加野心勃勃。

They wanted to start a rumor and get it onto their favorite TV channel, Sky Sports News.

他们想制造谣言并将其传播到他们最喜欢的电视频道天空体育新闻上。

Kieran says they designed the rumor to be kind of amusing but also plausible.

基兰说，他们设计的谣言有点有趣，但也有道理。

The rumor they made up was that the soccer player, William Gallas, was going to sign with a not very good team, Birmingham.

他们编造的谣言是足球运动员威廉·加拉斯将与一支不太好的球队伯明翰签约。

Like, lower mid-table, dowdy old Birmingham.

就像中低位的、破旧的老伯明翰。

He's on the out.

他已经出去了。

He's old.

他老了。

It could happen.

这可能会发生。

Let's try and just put some calls in.

让我们尝试拨打一些电话。

So these kids, they called up a hotel in Birmingham and booked a room in the player's name.

所以这些孩子们给伯明翰的一家酒店打电话，以球员的名义预订了一个房间。

This player, William Gallas, is French.

这位球员名叫威廉·加拉斯，是法国人。

So Kieran pretended to be a French sports agent with a kind of terrible French accent.

于是基兰假装自己是一名法国体育经纪人，带着难听的法国口音。

(IN FRENCH ACCENT) I was talking like this.

（法国口音）我是这样说话的。

So can I have-- I have roomate who's coming in.

那么我可以——我有室友要进来。

My client, William-- oh, you cannot tell what it is for.

我的客户，威廉——哦，你不知道它是用来做什么的。

It is for Birmingham.

这是为了伯明翰。

That task finished.

那个任务就完成了。

Room is reserved.

房间已预订。

He called up the press.

他打电话给媒体。

It was as easy as saying to a few papers, I've just heard from my friend who works at the Malmaison, the hotel-- don't take it from me.

这就像对几家报纸说一样简单，我刚刚从我在 Malmaison 酒店工作的朋友那里听说了——别从我这里夺走它。

But apparently, William Gallas has booked a room.

但显然，威廉·加拉斯已经预订了房间。

He's coming in tonight.

他今晚要进来。

And then telling Sky Sports all of this, oh, my god, my phone's been blowing up.

然后告诉天空体育这一切，哦，天哪，我的手机爆炸了。

Apparently, William Gallas is going to Birmingham.

显然，威廉·加拉斯要去伯明翰。

I've heard it from this guy at this paper.

我是从这个报纸上的这个人那里听到的。

I've heard it from the guy at the hotel.

我是从酒店的那个人那里听来的。

And then the next morning, we're watching Sky Sports News again.

第二天早上，我们再次观看天空体育新闻。

There's a flash interview with Alex McLeish, who was the manager at the time.

有一个对当时的经理亚历克斯·麦克利什的简短采访。

And it's just 10 seconds of, oh, you've been linked with William Gallas.

仅仅 10 秒，哦，你就和 William Gallas 联系上了。

Do you have anything to say about that?

对此你有什么要说的吗？

No. No, nothing.

不，不，没什么。

And I've got two young center-halves, and it's not the right move for me.

我有两个年轻的中卫，这对我来说不是正确的举动。

I need to spend my money on other positions that-- or spend the club's money on other positions that we really need to improve things.

我需要把我的钱花在其他位置上——或者把俱乐部的钱花在我们真正需要改进的其他位置上。

That was one of the funniest moments of our entire lives.

那是我们一生中最有趣的时刻之一。

It's just like being just hit by a tsunami.

就像刚刚遭受海啸袭击一样。

It was just, oh, my god.

这只是，哦，天哪。

It was here, sat on this floor by this TV yesterday.

昨天就在这里，坐在这层楼的电视机旁边。

Today, it is coming out of the TV.

今天，它从电视里出来了。

This is ridiculously powerful.

这实在是太强大了。

It's like, if we can do that, what else can we do?

就像，如果我们能做到这一点，我们还能做什么？

That "what else can we do?" is the plan that they launched into next, a plan that succeeded at a level that stunned these two kids.

那个“我们还能做什么？”是他们接下来启动的计划，这个计划的成功程度让这两个孩子感到震惊。

OK.

好的。

So I first heard this story on a podcast I've been listening to Pablo Torre Finds Out, which-- I don't know exactly how to describe this.

所以我第一次听到这个故事是在一个播客上，我一直在听 Pablo Torre Finds Out，我不知道如何准确地描述这个。

It's sort of an investigative reporting sports show that's also pretty funny.

这是一档调查报道体育节目，也很有趣。

Anyway, Kieran told the story to Pablo, and then Pablo agreed to adapt it for our show.

不管怎样，基兰把这个故事告诉了巴勃罗，然后巴勃罗同意将其改编成我们的节目。

And so here now to tell you this story is Pablo Torre.

现在，巴勃罗·托雷（Pablo Torre）在这里向大家讲述这个故事。

At age 16, Kieran Morris was experiencing what can only be described as a puberty of the ego.

16 岁时，基兰·莫里斯 (Kieran Morris) 正经历着自我的青春期。

He was still light headed, a little high off the intoxicating success of his French accent, and now he wanted more.

他仍然头晕目眩，他的法国口音令人陶醉，有点兴奋，现在他想要更多。

He wanted to go big-game hunting, find another soccer player and engineer an even bigger prank on the global soccer media.

他想去狩猎大型动物，寻找另一位足球运动员，并在全球足球媒体上策划一场更大的恶作剧。

The only question was which player they should use.

唯一的问题是他们应该使用哪名球员。

And then one day, in the summer of 2012, the London Olympics happened to be on TV, Honduras versus Morocco.

2012 年夏天的某一天，伦敦奥运会恰好在电视上播出，洪都拉斯队对阵摩洛哥队。

It's-- ooh, is there anyone here?

这是——哦，这里有人吗？

Let's look through the squad list.

我们先来看看阵容名单。

And we looked at a few.

我们看了一些。

A few of them had already gone to Europe.

他们中的一些人已经去了欧洲。

A few of them already had a bit of hype around them.

他们中的一些人已经有了一些炒作。

But there was a 19-year-old, number 10, making his first waves into the national team.

但有一位19岁的10号球员第一次进入国家队。

He was fairly dynamic on the day.

那天他相当有活力。

His name was Alexander Lopez.

他的名字叫亚历山大·洛佩兹。

He hadn't left Honduras.

他没有离开洪都拉斯。

He had a pretty modest but good goal record, a little bit of detail on him.

他的进球记录相当谦虚但很好，有一些关于他的细节。

And I don't know what it was, but we just fixed our eyes on him.

我不知道那是什么，但我们只是盯着他。

And before we know it, we're at the big, boxy computer in the study, going through Wikipedia, juicing it up a little bit with a bit more bio here.

在我们意识到这一点之前，我们已经在研究中的大而四四方方的计算机前浏览维基百科，在这里用更多的生物来充实它。

Oh, basically, at this point, it's a blank page.

哦，基本上，此时，它是一个空白页。

So a season had just gone by, the '11-'12 season.

一个赛季刚刚过去，“11-”12 赛季。

It had no detail on it.

它没有详细说明。

Let's give him some references for a great series of goals in the Honduran league.

让我们为他在洪都拉斯联赛中的一系列精彩进球提供一些参考。

So they went in a few times over months and kept juicing the numbers.

因此，他们在几个月内进行了几次调查，并不断统计数字。

Statistically, what are you giving him?

从统计上看，你给了他什么？

What kind of an upgrade are you giving him?

你给他什么样的升级？

18 goals, 34 assists, crazy, crazy, crazy figures.

18个进球，34次助攻，疯狂、疯狂、疯狂的数字。

If you watch a player do that to your league, they're an object of fascination.

如果你看到某个球员在你的联盟中做到了这一点，他们就会成为令人着迷的对象。

Other people are rising with his tide.

其他人也随着他的浪潮而崛起。

He's that talented.

他就是这么有才华。

The assists, I always thought, were the flourish.

我一直认为助攻是最重要的。

[LAUGHTER] Pablo Torre But from the beginning, the boldest thing they did is something you can still see right now, forever etched into the Wikipedia history of the page for Olympia midfielder Alexander Lopez.

[笑声] 巴勃罗·托雷 但从一开始，他们所做的最大胆的事情你现在仍然可以看到，永远铭刻在维基百科奥林匹亚中场亚历山大·洛佩兹页面的历史中。

Because Kieran Morris went back to add one more line, a nickname, which be placed at the very top.

因为基兰·莫里斯回去又添加了一行，一个昵称，放在最上面。

He is known to Olympia fans as the Honduran Maradona.

他被奥林匹亚球迷称为洪都拉斯马拉多纳。

[CHEERING] Pablo Torre Diego Maradona is one of the two or three greatest players in the history of soccer.

[欢呼]巴勃罗·托雷·迭戈·马拉多纳是足球史上最伟大的两三位球员之一。

That sound was him achieving immortality in the 1986 World Cup for Argentina against England.

那声音是他在 1986 年世界杯上代表阿根廷队对阵英格兰队的比赛中实现不朽的。

He is also one of its most colorfully reckless characters, to say the least.

至少可以说，他也是最丰富多彩的鲁莽角色之一。

And all of this is to say that Kieran comparing an effectively anonymous soccer player named Alexander Lopez to Diego Maradona was absurd, a real heat check.

所有这一切都表明基兰将一位名叫亚历山大·洛佩兹的实际上匿名的足球运动员与迭戈·马拉多纳进行比较是荒谬的，是真正的热度检查。

But for the people who'd never paid attention to soccer in Honduras, meaning pretty much everyone, this nickname was also plausible.

但对于那些从未关注过洪都拉斯足球的人（几乎所有人）来说，这个绰号也是合理的。

And so the next step of Kieran's plan was to call up a newspaper, Rupert Murdoch's London Times.

因此，基兰计划的下一步就是联系一家报纸，鲁珀特·默多克的《伦敦时报》。

And the persona Kieran invented this time was an eager freelance journalist named Neil Barker.

基兰这次创造的角色是一位热心的自由记者，名叫尼尔·巴克(Neil Barker)。

And as soon as Neil Barker heard a human voice on the other line, he pitched that human an item he had just heard about an Olympic-level prospect named Alexander Lopez.

尼尔·巴克（Neil Barker）一听到电话那头传来人声，就向那个人推销了他刚刚听说过的关于一位名叫亚历山大·洛佩兹（Alexander Lopez）的奥运级别新星的项目。

Because the Honduran Maradona, Neil Barker said, was signing with Wigan, a team in the English Premier League based in Greater Manchester.

尼尔·巴克说，因为洪都拉斯马拉多纳正在与总部位于大曼彻斯特的英超球队维冈签约。

And Neil Barker sounded legit.

尼尔·巴克听起来很合法。

Oh, I think he talked a bit like this.

哦，我觉得他说话有点像这样。

So it was a bit more a bit more Mancunian and a bit more-- yeah, so I've heard a little bit about Wigan signing another Honduran lad.

所以这有点曼彻斯特式的感觉，是的，所以我听说过一些关于维冈签下另一名洪都拉斯小伙子的消息。

He's playing at the Olympics now.

他现在正在参加奥运会。

He's called Alexander Lopez.

他叫亚历山大·洛佩兹。

Apparently, he's really, really good.

看得出来，他真的非常非常优秀。

$2 and 1/2 million is what I've heard from the physio.

我从理疗师那里听说是 2 又 1/2 百万美元。

I was the physio's friend.

我是理疗师的朋友。

You just piece it together like that, where it's, ooh, a physio's friend could have let that slip.

你就这样把它拼凑起来，哦，理疗师的朋友可能会漏掉这一点。

A medical could be happening.

可能正在发生医疗事故。

And then The Times-- I remember I was on the phone with a guy for 20 minutes, and he was taking down every detail.

然后是《泰晤士报》——我记得我和一个人通了 20 分钟的电话，他记下了每一个细节。

I think, for the very least, The Times, when they put it in the paper, they believed it.

我认为，至少，当《泰晤士报》将其发表在报纸上时，他们相信了这一点。

And then the year afterwards, we saw the news that the Houston Dynamo had paid $1 million for Alexander Lopez.

然后第二年，我们看到休斯敦迪纳摩队为亚历山大·洛佩兹支付100万美元的消息。

We just thought, oh, my god.

我们只是想，哦，天啊。

There were the stats on the press release-- 18 goals, 34 assists.

新闻稿上有数据——18个进球，34次助攻。

They had a YouTube clip of him up.

他们在 YouTube 上播放了他的视频。

The comments of that had welcome, the Honduran Maradona.

这一评论受到了洪都拉斯马拉多纳的欢迎。

We looked at the SB Nation posts, and we looked at the Reddit boards.

我们查看了 SB Nation 的帖子，也查看了 Reddit 版块。

And there it was.

就在那里。

We'd looked away for, like, a second.

我们把目光移开，大约一秒钟。

And this wildfire seemingly had spread through Major League Soccer.

这场野火似乎已经蔓延到美国职业足球大联盟。

I'm now looking at the press release off of houstondynamofc.com.

我现在正在查看 houstondynamofc.com 的新闻稿。

And it says, quote, "His record of 18 goals and 34 assists in 51 league games for Olympia testifies"-- testifies-- "to his creative and goal-scoring potential," which feels like you wrote that.

引用上面的话，“他在奥林匹亚队的 51 场联赛中打进 18 粒进球和 34 次助攻的记录证明了”——证明了——“他的创造力和进球潜力”，感觉就像你写的那样。

But no, this just got aggregated everywhere.

但不，这只是到处聚集。

You look it up now, and it's like foxnews.com has a story about this, quoting those numbers.

你现在查一下，就像 Foxnews.com 有一个关于这个的故事，引用了这些数字。

And there's this one fan site.

还有这个粉丝网站。

They're not just quoting the statistics, Kieran.

他们不只是引用统计数据，基兰。

They're quoting the legend, the nickname that you invented out of nothing.

他们引用的是传说，是你无中生有发明的绰号。

Yeah.

是的。

As soon as I saw that press release-- I was sat down in my study on the other side of the city, where I lived.

当我看到那篇新闻稿时——我坐在城市另一边我住的地方的书房里。

And it's the one where he's holding the shirt.

这是他拿着衬衫的地方。

And it says Alex 10, got the number 10, Maradona's number, holding it proudly in orange in the sun in Houston.

上面写着亚历克斯 10，他拿到了 10 号，马拉多纳的号码，在休斯敦的阳光下自豪地拿着橙色的号码。

And the first thing I did was, I made it my laptop background.

我做的第一件事就是将其设为我的笔记本电脑背景。

I put it on the wall like a hunting trophy.

我把它像狩猎战利品一样挂在墙上。

I was just like, there we go.

我当时想，我们就这样吧。

There we have it.

我们就有了。

The Houston Dynamo signing the Honduran Maradona immediately became Kieran's defining story, because of course it did.

休斯顿迪纳摩队签下洪都拉斯马拉多纳立即成为基兰的决定性故事，因为事实确实如此。

Kieran Morris told the story of how he pranked this dumb soccer team-- these credulous Americans in Texas who were so unfamiliar with his favorite sport that he conned him into dropping a million dollars on an edited Wikipedia page-- and he told this yarn, in those terms, to anyone and everyone who would listen.

基兰·莫里斯讲述了他如何恶作剧这支愚蠢的足球队的故事——德克萨斯州这些轻信的美国人对他最喜欢的运动如此不熟悉，以至于他骗他在编辑过的维基百科页面上投入了一百万美元——他用这些术语向任何愿意听的人讲了这个故事。

Oh, yeah, directly, directly led me to jobs, directly led me into what I do today.

哦，是的，直接，直接引导我找到工作，直接引导我做今天的事情。

The magazine job that I have today, I pitched doing the Honduran Maradona, the whole run through, in my job interview.

我今天从事的杂志工作，在我的工作面试中，我提出要拍摄洪都拉斯马拉多纳的全程。

It's, hire me.

是的，雇用我吧。

I'm precocious.

我早熟了。

I can take a kid from Central America and make him into a millionaire.

我可以带一个来自中美洲的孩子，让他成为百万富翁。

What could I do for you?

我能为你做什么？

And--

还有——

I like the idea of you bragging about this, like on dates.

我喜欢你吹嘘这一点的想法，就像约会一样。

Well, my now fiance-- I started going out with Sarah, who will be listening-- hello-- at the end of 2014.

好吧，我现在的未婚夫——我开始和莎拉约会，她将在 2014 年底倾听——你好。

So it's nine years.

就这样，九年过去了。

So it's just after school.

所以刚放学。

And so it worked on her years and years ago, nine years ago.

所以这在很多年前、九年前就对她起作用了。

She hates every beat, every turn, every single mention of Alexander Lopez, because she has heard me pull that routine hundreds of times with hundreds of different people.

她讨厌亚历山大·洛佩兹的每一个节拍、每一个转弯、每一次提及，因为她听过我和数百个不同的人一起重复这个动作数百次。

She rolls her eyes, like, default.

她翻了个白眼，一副默认的样子。

All of this hype around this story that was all tied into this hype I did around myself, never once did I think, what has happened to him?

所有围绕这个故事的炒作都与我对自己所做的炒作有关，我从来没有想过，他发生了什么事？

What really has happened to him, to his family?

他和他的家人究竟发生了什么？

And that, bit by bit, as I got older, that became a bigger thing in my mind.

随着年龄的增长，这一点一点地成为我心中更重要的事情。

Lopez only lasted a few seasons in Houston-- didn't play a lot.

洛佩兹只在休斯顿呆了几个赛季——并没有打太多比赛。

And Kieran began to wonder if his prank had been part of the reason things worked out so badly for Alexander Lopez, if he had callously tampered with the life of a promising young soccer player, setting him up for a fall in Houston, giving fans unrealistic expectations, disappointing coaches and teammates.

基兰开始怀疑他的恶作剧是否是亚历山大·洛佩兹事情进展如此糟糕的部分原因，他是否无情地篡改了一位有前途的年轻足球运动员的生活，让他在休斯敦跌倒，给球迷带来不切实际的期望，让教练和队友失望。

Kieran felt guilty.

基兰感到内疚。

And so, about a decade later, Kieran pitched yet another British newspaper, the Guardian this time, on the untold backstory of the Honduran Maradona, the true story of what he'd done.

因此，大约十年后，基兰又向另一家英国报纸《卫报》推销了洪都拉斯马拉多纳不为人知的背景故事，即他所做的事情的真实故事。

This reporting trip-- this guilt trip-- is what brought Kieran Morris at long last to Houston, home of the hapless Dynamo, where he could finally discover what really happened once his million-dollar invention showed up for work.

这次报道之旅——这次愧疚之旅——让基兰·莫里斯最终来到了休斯敦，那是倒霉的迪纳摩队的主场，在那里，他终于可以发现一旦他的百万美元发明投入使用，到底发生了什么。

Dynamo management remembered Lopez clearly.

迪纳摩管理层清楚地记得洛佩兹。

He was like, he was a really nice kid when he arrived.

当他到达时，他就像是一个非常好的孩子。

And he was fresh faced and eager.

他面容焕然一新，充满渴望。

There was a big-Spanish speaking contingent in the club, as there is in the city.

俱乐部里有一支庞大的讲西班牙语的队伍，就像在城市里一样。

And they just helped him settle in and get his fitness up.

他们只是帮助他安顿下来并恢复健康。

But what I've heard from speaking with Dom Kinnear, who was the manager at the time, was that fitness was, I think, the big obstacle for adapting to the MLS.

但我从当时的主教练多姆·金尼尔（Do​​m Kinnear）谈话中得知，我认为体能是适应美国职业足球大联盟的一大障碍。

I think at first, I think the speed of play and the physicalness of the players nonetheless were a little bit different than what he was used to in Honduras.

我认为首先，我认为比赛的速度和球员的身体素质仍然与他在洪都拉斯所习惯的有些不同。

It's just that we were expecting a bit more of an attacking presence from him.

只是我们对他的进攻期待更多一些。

And I think it took him a little while to get adjusted.

我认为他花了一些时间来适应。

What did they scout, actually?

他们到底侦察了什么？

What did they tell you about what they saw themselves, in terms of them evaluating him?

他们告诉你他们对自己的看法以及对他的评价是什么？

What did they do?

他们做了什么？

Oh, they flew out and watched games in Honduras.

哦，他们飞去洪都拉斯看比赛。

They put their due diligence in to monitor him and watch videos and all of these things to make sure that this guy was something good.

他们尽职尽责地监视他并观看视频以及所有这些事情，以确保这个人是个好人。

We did take a trip down to Honduras to watch him play for his club.

我们确实去了洪都拉斯看他为俱乐部踢球。

And he passed all the tests for us.

他为我们通过了所有测试。

And it was after that that we set up a meeting with our owners to let them know there's interest in a Honduran player south of the border who has a bright future.

在那之后，我们与我们的老板举行了一次会议，让他们知道我们对边境以南的洪都拉斯球员有兴趣，他有着光明的未来。

But as the MLS was professionalizing and intensifying, you need to run a lot more.

但随着美国职业足球大联盟的职业化和强化，你需要跑得更多。

You need to run a lot, lot more.

你需要跑很多很多。

You need to contribute to all sides of the game.

你需要为游戏的各个方面做出贡献。

You need to be that modern, total footballer, to an extent.

在某种程度上，你需要成为那个现代的、全面的足球运动员。

You kind of need to be a bit more like the Honduran Maradona that was promised, who was, again, like Maradona, one of the fastest and most physical athletes, as well as one of the most infamous, right?

你需要更像承诺的洪都拉斯马拉多纳，他又像马拉多纳一样，是速度最快、身体素质最好的运动员之一，也是最臭名昭著的运动员之一，对吗？

But he's known for his athleticism, his physicality, his speed-- also, obviously, rampant cocaine use, as a side note.

但他以他的运动能力、他的身体素质、他的速度而闻名——顺便说一句，显然，他还广泛使用可卡因。

But the point is that the guy who arrived, he was less than, unsurprisingly, what that fake nickname you made up had suggested.

但关键是，到达这里的那个人，不出所料，并不像你编造的那个假昵称所暗示的那样。

Exactly.

确切地。

And early doors, I watched-- I think it was first game against New York Red Bulls.

早些时候，我观看了——我认为这是对阵纽约红牛队的第一场比赛。

And there's a moment he pulls out this amazing pass to, I think, Jason Johnson.

有一瞬间，他向我认为是贾森·约翰逊发出了这个令人惊叹的传球。

And he scores to make it, I think, 1-1 with the Dynamo.

我认为他的进球帮助迪纳摩队 1-1 获胜。

And there's Lopez.

还有洛佩兹。

That's what he can do.

这就是他能做的。

Lopez, Johnson, has tied it up.

洛佩兹、约翰逊已经把它绑起来了。

Spectacular goal!

精彩的进球！

[CHEERING] Alexander Lopez with a passing gem and a first-ever goal for Jason Johnson.

[欢呼] 亚历山大·洛佩兹 (Alexander Lopez) 传球出色，贾森·约翰逊 (Jason Johnson) 攻入首球。

And then the Dynamo get turned over.

然后迪纳摩队就翻盘了。

They lose 4-1.

他们以 4-1 落败。

The season generally falls off the rails fairly quickly.

这个季节通常很快就会脱离轨道。

And as Kieran was canvassing the training ground, talking to all these people who work for the Dynamo, he started realizing something important.

当基兰巡视训练场、与所有为迪纳摩工作的人交谈时，他开始意识到一些重要的事情。

He discovered that the people he thought were these credulous Americans had actually done the research.

他发现他认为的那些轻信的美国人实际上已经做了这项研究。

They'd taken some international trips to Honduras themselves.

他们自己也曾前往洪都拉斯进行过一些国际旅行。

It was one thing to write that press release and copy those fake statistics off Wikipedia, which the Dynamo clearly did, but they hadn't outsourced their entire scouting department to some British teenager.

撰写新闻稿并复制维基百科上的虚假统计数据是一回事，迪纳摩显然就是这样做的，但他们并没有将整个球探部门外包给某个英国青少年。

Well, I remember the one that really set me back was speaking to Dom Kinnear.

嗯，我记得真正让我退缩的是和多姆·金尼尔的谈话。

And I asked him, have you ever heard the nickname, the Honduran Maradona?

我问他，你听说过“洪都拉斯马拉多纳”这个绰号吗？

And he sort of rocks back in his chair.

他在椅子上摇晃了一下。

And he smiles, and he laughs, and he goes--

他微笑着，大笑起来，然后——

I've heard some nicknames in my day, but the first I heard that was from you today.

我小时候听过一些绰号，但今天我第一次听到这个绰号是你说的。

[LAUGHTER] Kieran Morris --Kieran, I haven't heard that until you said it just now, like, literally never.

[笑声] Kieran Morris——Kieran，直到你刚才这么说我才听说过，就像，真的从来没有。

Like, OK, check one on that.

就像，好吧，检查一下。

Chris Canetti, who was the president at the time of Houston Dynamo, he very breezily, almost offhandedly, said, yeah, yeah, we heard of that.

克里斯·卡内蒂（Chris Canetti）是休斯敦迪纳摩队当时的主席，他非常轻松，几乎是随口说道，是的，是的，我们听说过这个。

Yeah, we knew about that at the time of the signing, but didn't make too much of that.

是的，我们在签约时就知道了这一点，但没有过多关注。

[LAUGHS]

[笑]

I don't think he-- not meant it, but I think what he meant by that was, we knew there was some hype around him.

我不认为他——不是故意的，但我认为他的意思是，我们知道他周围有一些炒作。

Because it was so breezily tossed off.

因为它被如此轻松地抛弃了。

It didn't give me anything like, oh, yeah, he's heard it.

它没有给我任何东西，比如，哦，是的，他听到了。

And then Nick Kalba, the assistant GM, was just clear as anything.

然后，助理总经理尼克·卡尔巴 (Nick Kalba) 的态度非常明确。

Nope.

没有。

Yeah.

是的。

You get the Honduran Messi.

你得到了洪都拉斯梅西。

You'll get the whatever.

你会得到任何东西。

So I don't really take stock in somebody's nickname, to be honest.

所以说实话，我并不太在意某人的昵称。

Even if we did hear it, we wouldn't care, because those nicknames don't matter to us in the professional soccer industry.

即使我们确实听到了，我们也不会在意，因为这些绰号对我们职业足球界来说并不重要。

What you're thinking as your life, the story you tell yourself about yourself, is just being dismissed as just obviously unserious, like of course we don't give a [BLEEP] about that.

你所想的你的生活，你告诉自己的关于你自己的故事，只是因为明显不严肃而被忽视，就像我们当然不会对此给予[BLEEP]。

That's just a thing someone says.

这只是某人说的一句话。

When they tell you that the legend doesn't even matter to them, who made the decision, what's going through your head?

当他们告诉你传奇对他们来说根本不重要，是谁做出的决定时，你脑子里在想什么？

I think the first thought was that I'm a long way from home, that I have got this far-- what-- 12-hours flight over, FaceTime with sports executives who've taken time out of their day to speak to me and just thinking, oh, god, why did I even lift under the rock with this one?

我想第一个想法是我离家很远，我已经经历了这么远——什么——12个小时的飞行，与体育主管们进行FaceTime，他们抽出时间与我交谈，只是想，哦，上帝，为什么我什至要带着这个从岩石下抬起来？

I could have just kept on not bothering the story, leaving the ghosts to rest and all of that.

我本可以继续不去打扰这个故事，让鬼魂休息等等。

And I didn't.

但我没有。

And I picked at the scab too much.

而且我把痂抠得太多了。

And now it's all coming out.

现在一切都出来了。

Now I'm seeing it.

现在我看到了。

Now I'm in the room with the adults, the adults who made the decisions, the proper people, who weren't just spinning yarns and telling stories in smoking areas and all of that, with the actual people doing their job.

现在我和成年人在一起，那些做出决定的成年人，合适的人，他们不仅仅是在吸烟区编故事和讲故事等等，还有真正的人在做他们的工作。

To think that I've been entertaining the idea that one day, they opened up their laptops while they were watching the Olympics, just as I was, and thought, ooh, look at all these goals and assists-- Chris, go get your checkbook-- when you see it all now.

想想看，我一直在思考这样一个想法：有一天，他们在观看奥运会时打开笔记本电脑，就像我一样，然后想，哦，看看所有这些进球和助攻——克里斯，去拿你的支票簿——当你现在看到这一切时。

Just-- Kieran, what a literal child's version of how sports works.

只是——基兰，这真是儿童版的体育运动原理。

But there was one more thing that Kieran had to do now that he was telling the true story of the Honduran Maradona.

但现在基兰还必须做一件事，他正在讲述洪都拉斯马拉多纳的真实故事。

And it was simple.

这很简单。

Kieran Morris needed to come clean to Alexander Lopez himself.

基兰·莫里斯需要向亚历山大·洛佩兹本人坦白。

No, Kieran hadn't ruined Lopez's life, it turned out.

不，事实证明基兰并没有毁掉洛佩兹的生活。

But he tried to mess with it, did his best, gave him that absurd nickname without ever really thinking through the consequences.

但他试图搞乱它，尽了最大努力，给了他这个荒谬的绰号，却没有真正考虑过后果。

So this was a kind of weird confession.

所以这是一种奇怪的坦白。

Lopez was now playing for a team in Costa Rica.

洛佩兹现在为哥斯达黎加的一支球队效力。

Kieran found his agent, calmed his own nerves, and, without explaining to the agent why he kept on insisting on interviewing Alexander Lopez in person, Kieran got on a plane.

基兰找到了他的经纪人，安抚了自己的紧张情绪，没有向经纪人解释为什么他坚持要亲自采访亚历山大·洛佩兹，基兰就上了飞机。

And one day, at a Costa Rican Hilton, the Honduran Maradona walked in.

有一天，在哥斯达黎加的希尔顿酒店，洪都拉斯马拉多纳走进来。

We shook hands.

我们握手了。

It was journalist and subject, sit down, interpreter in the middle.

这是记者和主题，坐下，翻译在中间。

Kieran Mara speaking.

基兰·玛拉发言。

Eliana Castillo Eliana Castillo, the translator.

埃莉安娜·卡斯蒂略 埃莉安娜·卡斯蒂略，译者。

And Alex Lopez, Alex Lopez.

还有亚历克斯·洛佩兹，亚历克斯·洛佩兹。

Eliana Castillo [SPEAKING SPANISH]

Eliana Castillo [西班牙语]

Si.

斯。

Pablo Torre They talked through his career.

巴勃罗·托雷 他们谈论了他的职业生涯。

Lopez had no bad memories of Houston.

洛佩兹对休斯顿并没有什么不好的回忆。

He had a rough time on a Saudi Arabian team for a while but quit that contract, went to Honduras.

他在沙特阿拉伯队度过了一段时间，但后来放弃了合同，去了洪都拉斯。

And that run back in Honduras, he was banging in the goals.

在洪都拉斯的那次跑动中，他进球了。

He was winning trophies.

他正在赢得奖杯。

He was an all free-flowing, goal-scoring number 10 in Honduras.

在洪都拉斯，他是一名自由自在、进球数排名第10的球员。

He finally had the record that we had made up for him when he was 19.

他终于拥有了我们在他19岁时为他弥补的记录。

At 24 or whatever he was then, he was ripping up the Honduran league.

24岁，或者无论他当时多大，他正在撕裂洪都拉斯联赛。

And after stalling for as long as he could with details about Lopez's career, Kieran started edging up to the reason he was even there.

在尽可能长时间地拖延有关洛佩兹职业生涯的细节之后，基兰开始慢慢解释他来这里的原因。

Had Lopez ever heard of this nickname, the Honduran Maradona?

洛佩兹听说过洪都拉斯马拉多纳这个绰号吗？

He had.

他有。

He absolutely had.

他绝对有。

He had heard it.

他听到了。

But he thought it was just a fun, silly nickname made up by the fans.

但他认为这只是粉丝们编造的一个有趣、愚蠢的绰号。

The surname came along simply because a lot of newspapers and journalists were talking about it, and they would say that I was like a young Maradona.

这个姓氏的出现只是因为很多报纸和记者都在谈论它，他们会说我就像年轻的马拉多纳。

I had the same skills that Maradona had when he was that age too.

我也拥有马拉多纳在那个年纪时所拥有的同样的技能。

I know that.

我知道。

But, of course, we all know that Maradona-- you know, what he was, really.

但是，当然，我们都知道马拉多纳——你知道，他确实是个什么样的人。

So it's just that.

所以就是这样。

And that was about as far as it went.

大概就这样了。

And there was a split second where I thought, shake hands and let him go-- tiniest split second.

有那么一瞬间，我想握手并让他走——最短的一瞬间。

But I don't know what dragged me out of that.

但我不知道是什么让我摆脱了困境。

And I can hear it on the interview tape, those first stutters, like, excuse me, um, before you go, um--

我可以在采访磁带上听到，那些最初的结巴，就像，对不起，嗯，在你走之前，嗯——

One thing, one more thing while I'm here and while I have you.

当我在这里，当我有你的时候，是一件事，另一件事。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kieran Morris And then I've already rehearsed the spiel with the interpreter so she's not--

[说西班牙语] 基兰·莫里斯 然后我已经和翻译排练了演讲内容，所以她不会——

Oh, I feel so awkward-- Kieran Morris --caught off guard.

哦，我感觉很尴尬——基兰·莫里斯——措手不及。

--imagining this.

——想象一下这个。

Kieran Morris So beat for beat, I'll do, like, 1/10 of the story.

基兰·莫里斯 (Kieran Morris) 所以，我会逐一完成故事的 1/10。

And then I'll pause.

然后我会暂停。

And then she'll do it in Spanish.

然后她会用西班牙语说。

When you were linked with Wigan, I had changed Wikipedia around.

当你和维冈联系在一起时，我已经改变了维基百科。

I had called the papers.

我给报纸打电话了。

And then I will do the next bit and the next bit.

然后我会做下一点、再下一点。

And then it's all of those moments where-- I'm talking, and he's not reacting.

然后就是所有这些时刻——我在说话，而他没有反应。

But then I just sit back and watch his reaction.

但后来我只是坐下来观察他的反应。

I'm studying him while I'm waiting to say something again.

我一边打量着他，一边等着再说什么。

And I just keep talking and talking and talking.

我只是一直说啊说啊说啊。

10 years ago, I invented the name the Honduran Maradona.

10年前，我发明了洪都拉斯马拉多纳这个名字。

[LAUGHTER] Kieran Morris And he starts laughing.

[笑声] Kieran Morris 然后他开始大笑。

And then I'm like, that could mean a multitude of things.

然后我想，这可能意味着很多事情。

But he thought it was funny and benign and inconsequential and saw it for what it was, which was nothing.

但他认为这很有趣、很良性、无关紧要，他看到了它的本质，其实没什么。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Alex Lopez [SPEAKING SPANISH]

[说西班牙语] 亚历克斯·洛佩兹 [说西班牙语]

Interpreter When my agent told me a journalist wanted to do an interview, I was sort of like, huh?

当我的经纪人告诉我一名记者想要接受采访时，我的反应是，嗯？

Why?

为什么？

But now I get it.

但现在我明白了。

How does he feel about using that nickname, the Honduran Maradona?

他对于使用“洪都拉斯马拉多纳”这个绰号有何感想？

Does he embrace it?

他拥抱它吗？

What's his feeling on that?

他对此有何感想？

Oh, no, he was very old school about it.

哦，不，他对此很老派。

He was like, oh, no, no, no. There's only one Maradona.

他就像，哦，不，不，不。只有一个马拉多纳。

But he's got a better nickname now.

但他现在有了一个更好的绰号。

He's The Engineer, el ingeniero, as they call him.

他是工程师，人们称他为 el ingeniero。

And his mom loves it.

他妈妈喜欢它。

I think his brother actually is an engineer, so it's cool for them.

我认为他的兄弟实际上是一名工程师，所以这对他们来说很酷。

The fans gave it to him, which is how nicknames should work.

球迷给了他这个绰号，这就是绰号的作用。

And it sums him up.

这总结了他。

He dictates play from the middle of the field.

他在球场中间指挥比赛。

He's crafty.

他很狡猾。

He's intelligent.

他很聪明。

It's who he is.

他就是这样的人。

And it wasn't randomly made up by a child.

而且它也不是一个孩子随意编出来的。

That nickname, The Engineer, is so perfect.

工程师这个绰号真是太完美了。

It's so perfect because Kieran thought he was the engineer rerouting Alexander Lopez's life.

它是如此完美，因为基兰认为他是改变亚历山大·洛佩兹生活的工程师。

But he wasn't.

但他不是。

This entire time, Alexander Lopez had been engineering Alexander Lopez's trajectory, because of course he was, through all the ups and downs which meant that the legend that Kieran had most invented was his own.

一直以来，亚历山大·洛佩兹一直在设计亚历山大·洛佩兹的轨迹，因为他当然是，经历了所有的起起落落，这意味着基兰最创造的传奇是他自己的。

Dead right, dead right.

太对了，太对了。

And this is what it's a story of.

这就是它的故事。

It's a story of a kid who just took something way, way, way, way, way too far in his own mind and has been telling people about it for 10 years since.

这是一个关于一个孩子的故事，他在自己的头脑中把某件事想得太远了，十年来一直向人们讲述这件事。

Kieran Morris, thank you for coming clean about who you actually are.

基兰·莫里斯，谢谢你坦白自己的真实身份。

It's a pleasure.

我的荣幸。

It's a pleasure.

我的荣幸。

I'm closer to knowing.

我更接近知道了。

That story was adapted from the podcast Pablo Torre Finds Out, which Pablo likes to say is a show about sports, the way Moneyball is a book about baseball.

这个故事改编自播客《Pablo Torre Finds Out》，巴勃罗喜欢说这是一档关于体育的节目，就像《点球成金》是一本关于棒球的书一样。

I've been enjoying it.

我一直很享受。

And he just had a big story this week about salary caps and Kawhi Leonard that made national headlines.

本周他刚刚发布了一个关于工资帽和科怀·伦纳德的大新闻，登上了全国头条新闻。

Thanks also to his producer, Chris Tumminello.

还要感谢他的制片人 Chris Tumminello。

Our program was produced by Lilly Sullivan with help from Suzanne Gaber.

我们的节目由 Lilly Sullivan 在 Suzanne Gaber 的帮助下制作。

People who put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Audrey Fromson, Cassie Howley, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Tobin Low, Katherine Rae Mando, Stowe Nelson, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Laura Starecheski, Christopher Swetala, and Marisa Robertson-Textor.

今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Audrey Fromson、Cassie Howley、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Tobin Low、Katherine Rae Mando、Stowe Nelson、Anthony Roman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Laura Starecheski、Christopher Swetala 和 Marisa Robertson-Textor。

Our managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman.

我们的总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。

Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.

我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。

Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.

我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。

This week, we say goodbye to our office coordinator, Jendayi Bonds.

本周，我们将告别我们的办公室协调员 Jendayi Bonds。

She is off to teach music to kids, which, frankly, is a much more interesting job than the job she had with us.

她要去教孩子们音乐，坦率地说，这是一份比她和我们一起的工作更有趣的工作。

And she gets to use her talents way more in this new job.

在这份新工作中，她可以更多地发挥自己的才能。

We will miss her, though.

不过我们会想念她的。

Special thanks today to Valerie Caesar, Maryam Alwan, Grant Miner, Carly Schaffer, Ramzi Kassem, Joseph Howley, Jude Taha, Diala Shamas, Shezza Abboushi Dallal, Rosy Fitzgerald, Amber Von Schassen, My Khanh Ngo, Nora Benavidez, Sara Yasin, Ramy Youssef, Lily Saltzberg, Gaia Caramazza, and the filmmakers of The Encampments.

今天特别感谢 Valerie Caesar、Maryam Alwan、Grant Miner、Carly Schaffer、Ramzi Kassem、Joseph Howley、Jude Taha、Diala Shamas、Shezza Abboushi Dallal、Rosy Fitzgerald、Amber Von Schassen、My Khanh Ngo、Nora Benavidez、Sara Yasin、Ramy Youssef、Lily Saltzberg、Gaia Caramazza 以及《营地》的电影制片人。

It has been an entire week since I have mentioned that if you become a This American Life partner, you get ad-free listening, you get a greatest-hits archive right in your podcast feed, and you get access to bonus episodes.

自从我提到如果你成为《This American Life》的合作伙伴，你就可以享受无广告的聆听体验，你可以在你的播客提要中获得最热门的档案，并且可以观看奖励剧集，已经过去了一整周了。

There are now dozens of them.

现在有几十个。

Some of them are honestly really kind of wonderful.

老实说，其中一些真的很棒。

To check them out, subscribe at thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.

要查看它们，请通过 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners 订阅。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

He got into his first bar fight this week.

这周他第一次在酒吧打架。

What did it feel like?

感觉如何？

What I felt was as if somebody took a bottle and slammed it onto my head.

我的感觉就好像有人拿起一个瓶子，把它砸在我的头上。

I'm Ira Glass back, next week with more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。