856: You’ve Come to the Right Person - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #856 | March 14, 2025 856: You’ve Come to the Right Person Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 856 集 | 2025 年 3 月 14 日 856：您找对人了 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue David Kestenbaum From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 David Kestenbaum，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm David Kestenbaum, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆，代理艾拉·格拉斯。
And I'm just going to let my first two guests today introduce themselves.
今天我要让前两位嘉宾自我介绍一下。
My name is Gary Powell.
我叫加里·鲍威尔。
I'm a stunt coordinator, second unit director in motion films.
我是一名特技协调员、动作片第二单元导演。
Name a couple movies.
列举几部电影。
Gary Powell Oh, Titanic, James Bond, Mission Impossible.
加里·鲍威尔哦，《泰坦尼克号》、《詹姆斯·邦德》、《碟中谍》。
OK, Miles, your turn.
好吧，迈尔斯，轮到你了。
Miles I don't have a job.
迈尔斯 我没有工作。
Miles.
迈尔斯。
David Kestenbaum Miles is 7-- well, almost 7.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·迈尔斯 7 岁——嗯，快 7 岁了。
And we arranged for him to talk to Gary because he had some urgent questions about car chases from movies.
我们安排他与加里交谈，因为他对电影中的汽车追逐有一些紧急问题。
And Gary?
加里呢？
That's his particular set of skills.
这是他独特的技能。
I drove the crane in Terminator, the bus in Harry Potter.
我在《终结者》中驾驶起重机，在《哈利·波特》中驾驶公共汽车。
What, you drove the bus in Harry Potter?
什么，你在哈利波特里开过公共汽车？
I did.
我做到了。
David Kestenbaum A little background-- Miles loves cars.
David Kestenbaum 一些背景知识——迈尔斯喜欢汽车。
His mom says that before he could read, he could tell you make and model and sometimes year of any of their friends' cars.
他妈妈说，在他识字之前，他可以告诉你他们朋友的汽车的品牌和型号，有时甚至是年份。
He draws cars, makes cars out of LEGOs.
他画汽车，用乐高积木制作汽车。
He brought one with him, actually.
事实上，他随身带了一个。
And he and Gary quickly got down to talking shop.
他和加里很快就开始交谈。
I do car chases with my seven and eight cars.
我用我的七辆车和八辆车进行汽车追逐。
Right.
正确的。
So do you choreograph little car chases for yourself then?
那么你会为自己设计一些小汽车追逐吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Gary Powell That's cool.
加里·鲍威尔 太酷了。
Do you know what you should do?
你知道你应该做什么吗？
Before this conversation with Gary, Miles showed me this one kind of amazing drawing he'd done.
在与加里交谈之前，迈尔斯向我展示了他所做的这幅令人惊叹的画作。
It's a scene from a particular movie.
这是某部电影中的一个场景。
He's drawn what looks like a black police car in the air, flying backward over a second car.
他在空中画出了一辆看起来像黑色警车的东西，向后飞过第二辆车。
Miles would tell you the second car is a Ford Pinto.
迈尔斯会告诉你第二辆车是福特 Pinto。
Miles hasn't seen the actual movie this is from, just this scene, over and over.
迈尔斯没有看过这个真实的电影，只是一遍又一遍地看过这个场景。
Have you watched the Blues Brothers car chase that's eight minutes long?
你看过长达八分钟的布鲁斯兄弟汽车追逐吗？
Yes, I have.
是的，我有。
Miles Have you seen the backwards flip?
迈尔斯 你见过后空翻吗？
This is the thing he had questions about-- the famous car chase at the end of The Blues Brothers.
这就是他有疑问的地方——《蓝调兄弟》结尾处著名的汽车追逐戏。
The whole thing is actually 11 minutes long.
整个过程实际上长达11分钟。
I remember the first time I saw it, I fell over.
我记得我第一次看到它的时候，我就摔倒了。
Because it was so amazing?
因为它太神奇了？
Miles I mean, like, are those people billionaires if they can buy 150 Dodge police cars, only to crash them?
迈尔斯，我的意思是，如果那些人能买 150 辆道奇警车，却把它们撞坏，他们是亿万富翁吗？
If you haven't seen the movie, it's a ridiculous, massive smash-up of cars.
如果你还没有看过这部电影，那是一场荒谬的、大规模的汽车碰撞事件。
Miles had questions about how it was all done, and Gary Powell, world expert on car chases, said he was happy to help.
迈尔斯对这一切是如何完成的有疑问，世界汽车追逐专家加里·鲍威尔表示他很乐意提供帮助。
Hey, Miles, should we just play through it?
嘿，迈尔斯，我们应该玩完它吗？
And whenever that you have a question, you just say, stop.
每当你有问题时，你就说，停下来。
All right.
好的。
David Kestenbaum All right, here we are, the final car chase scene in The Blues Brothers.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 好吧，我们来了，《蓝调兄弟》中最后的汽车追逐场景。
Let's go.
我们走吧。
David Kestenbaum I'll narrate for you.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 我来为你讲述。
It starts with the Blues brothers, sunglasses, black suits, driving an old beat-up black cop car that they bought used.
故事开始于布鲁斯兄弟，戴着墨镜，穿着黑色西装，驾驶着一辆他们买来的二手破旧黑色警车。
It's their single car being pursued on the highway by a long line of police cars.
这是他们唯一的一辆车在高速公路上被一长串警车追赶。
Officers are in pursuit.
官员们正在追击。
A black and white 1974 Dodge sedan--
一辆黑白 1974 年道奇轿车——
Pause.
暂停。
Pause.
暂停。
Are those Nazis real Nazis?
那些纳粹分子是真正的纳粹分子吗？
He's talking here about members of the Illinois Nazi party who join the car chase in an orange Ford Pinto.
他在这里谈论的是伊利诺伊州纳粹党成员驾驶橙色福特平托加入追车活动。
Are those Nazis real Nazis?
那些纳粹分子是真正的纳粹分子吗？
Gary Powell No, they'll be actors playing those parts.
加里·鲍威尔 不，他们将由演员扮演这些角色。
Oh.
哦。
David Kestenbaum Miles is like, good to know.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·迈尔斯（David Kestenbaum Miles）很高兴知道这一点。
We move on to the action.
我们继续行动。
Chase continues.
追逐继续。
I got to pull over.
我得靠边停车。
David Kestenbaum Dan Aykroyd drives right through a highway barrier and down the embankment.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·丹·艾克罗伊德直接开车穿过高速公路护栏，沿着路堤行驶。
They continue OK, but the cop car behind them crashes, followed by the one behind them and the next one, some upside down.
他们继续前进，但他们后面的警车撞毁了，紧接着是他们后面的一辆和下一辆，有些颠倒了。
It goes on quite a while.
它持续了很长一段时间。
[CHUCKLES] Miles Do they actually-- are the people OK in the cars when they crash?
[笑] 迈尔斯 他们真的——当车祸发生时，车里的人还好吗？
Like, are there people in there, like real people who are--
就像，里面有没有人，就像真实的人一样——
Yes, there is.
是的，有。
There'll be stunt people in those cars.
这些车里会有特技演员。
They'll all be strapped in.
他们都会被绑起来。
They'll have roll cages inside the cars, probably wearing crash helmets, some of them.
他们的车内会有防滚架，其中一些人可能会戴着防撞头盔。
So yeah, they'd be safe.
所以是的，他们会很安全。
Almost all of Miles's questions were like this, about safety, some version of, are those people I'm seeing in the movie OK?
迈尔斯几乎所有的问题都是这样的，关于安全，某种版本的，我在电影中看到的那些人还好吗？
Like in this one scene where the Blues brothers in their car go plowing through a mall, and all these people have to jump out of the way at the very last second.
就像在这个场景中，布鲁斯兄弟开着车穿过商场，所有这些人都必须在最后一秒跳开。
They're all stunt people that have been trained, and they all move on a cue, you know?
他们都是受过训练的特技演员，他们都根据提示行动，你知道吗？
They're really good because you can see they leave it right to the last second before they move.
他们真的很棒，因为你可以看到他们直到最后一秒才采取行动。
But that was lots of stunt people, lots of rehearsals.
但这需要很多特技演员，大量的排练。
We continue.
我们继续。
Miles shouts "pause" a couple more times, once to ask if Dan Aykroyd had to take special driving lessons-- answer, probably yes-- another time to ask if that car that goes flying through the air and sticks into the side of a truck is real-- answer, yes.
迈尔斯又喊了几次“停顿”，一次是问丹·艾克罗伊德是否必须参加特殊的驾驶课程——回答，可能是的——另一次问那辆在空中飞行并卡在卡车侧面的汽车是否是真的——回答，是的。
And then we're at the climax of the chase, the one that Miles had drawn a picture of.
然后我们就到了追逐的高潮，迈尔斯画了一张图。
The Blues Brothers are now being chased by just the Nazis, who are pursuing them ridiculously in the orange Ford Pinto.
布鲁斯兄弟现在只被纳粹追赶，纳粹开着橙色的福特平托可笑地追赶他们。
Blues Brothers gun it up an on-ramp to a highway.
布鲁斯兄弟将其开上高速公路的入口匝道。
But oh, wait, the highway hasn't been built yet.
但是哦，等等，高速公路还没有建成。
It's just a ramp into the air.
这只是一个通向空中的坡道。
Blues Brothers hit reverse, somehow flip backward over the Nazi car behind them.
布鲁斯兄弟倒车，不知何故向后翻转超过了他们身后的纳粹汽车。
But the Nazi car keeps going, off the ramp and into the air.
但纳粹汽车继续行驶，离开坡道，飞向空中。
It flies through the air impossibly and comically far.
它在空中飞得不可思议、滑稽地远。
And then there's a shot of it falling straight down a really long way.
然后有一个镜头，它笔直地坠落很远。
You see the Chicago skyline in the background, and the car smashes into the ground.
你可以看到背景中的芝加哥天际线，汽车撞向地面。
[CRASHING] Miles Wait!
[崩溃]迈尔斯等等！
Pause, pause, pause.
暂停，暂停，暂停。
This is where I had the question, how do they film that part?
这就是我的问题，他们是如何拍摄那部分的？
Gary explains that they actually dropped the Ford Pinto from a helicopter.
加里解释说，他们实际上是从直升机上扔下福特平托的。
And then they're just dropping it.
然后他们就把它扔掉了。
And then obviously, when the wide shot where you see the car dropping, again, that could be filmed from a helicopter or a building.
显然，当你看到汽车掉落的广角镜头时，再次可以从直升机或建筑物上拍摄。
And you're just seeing it dropping all the way down.
而你只是看到它一路下降。
But like, the question I have for that part, are they OK once the car lands?
但是，就像我对这部分的问题一样，一旦汽车着陆，它们就可以了吗？
Because you don't see it after it lands.
因为落地后你就看不到它了。
[CHUCKLES] So in the car, when it's dropping, when the physical car is dropping, they've probably got two dummies sitting in there, no real people.
[笑]所以在车里，当它下降时，当实体车下降时，他们可能有两个假人坐在里面，没有真人。
Gary explains that the interior shot of the two people in the car while it's falling, that was done separately, safely on the ground.
加里解释说，汽车坠落时车内两人的内部镜头是在地面上安全地单独拍摄的。
Miles nods.
迈尔斯点点头。
Miles is actually the son of one of our coworkers here at the show, Alissa.
迈尔斯实际上是我们在展会上的一位同事艾丽莎的儿子。
She has a theory about Miles's interest in the Blues Brothers chase and all those questions about are the people safe, which is that some of it has to do with a thing that happened last summer.
她有一个关于迈尔斯对布鲁斯兄弟追逐的兴趣的理论，以及所有关于人们安全的问题，其中一些与去年夏天发生的事情有关。
A girl Miles knows was in a pretty serious car accident.
迈尔斯认识的一个女孩遭遇了一场严重的车祸。
Miles told Gary about it.
迈尔斯把这件事告诉了加里。
I have a friend.
我有一个朋友。
Her and her dad were driving in their old Subaru Outback.
她和她的父亲开着他们的旧斯巴鲁内陆地区。
And they were at an intersection, and they stopped.
他们到了一个十字路口，他们停了下来。
There was a Kia Soul coming.
有一辆起亚秀尔来了。
There was a lady, a 95-year-old lady in the car, asleep at the wheel.
车里有一位女士，一位95岁的女士，在方向盘上睡着了。
Oh, dear.
哦亲爱的。
Miles And she rammed them into a tree.
迈尔斯 她把它们撞到了一棵树上。
Oh.
哦。
Was they OK?
他们还好吗？
Miles Yeah, because my friend was strapped tightly into the back seat--
迈尔斯 是的，因为我的朋友被紧紧地绑在后座上——
That's why you have to wear your seatbelts and all that.
这就是为什么你必须系好安全带等等。
So that was lucky.
所以那是幸运的。
Hey, Gary, how often, when you're shooting a car chase, does somebody get hurt in the making of it?
嘿，加里，当你拍摄一场汽车追逐时，有多少人会在拍摄过程中受伤？
It's rare.
这是很少见的。
I've, unfortunately, been involved in one car chase where someone got seriously hurt because the special effects rig failed.
不幸的是，我曾参与过一场汽车追逐赛，其中有人因特效装置故障而受重伤。
And that is obviously not a nice experience.
这显然不是一次美好的经历。
But I think out of the 35 years that I've doing it, I've only had one serious accident in a car chase.
但我认为，在我从事这项工作的 35 年里，我只在一场汽车追逐中遭遇过严重事故。
Other than that, you might get a bit whiplash or something like that, but for us, that's nothing.
除此之外，你可能会受到一点鞭打或类似的东西，但对我们来说，这没什么。
What?
什么？
David Kestenbaum Now that you know how this stuff is done, do you think it's better to know how they did the stunts or better not to know?
David Kestenbaum 现在你知道了这些东西是如何完成的，你认为知道他们是如何完成这些特技更好还是不知道更好？
Better.
更好的。
It's good to know how they do that, so you know that none of the people are just random people who have a chance of dying in the film or something.
很高兴知道他们是如何做到这一点的，这样你就知道没有一个人只是在电影或其他东西中有机会死亡的随机人。
So that's the reason it's good to know.
这就是我们很高兴知道这一点的原因。
It's nice when you get to talk to the exact right person.
当您能够与正确的人交谈时，这真是太好了。
You get answers to the questions that have been circling in your head and, sometimes, reassurances you didn't even realize you were asking for.
你会得到脑海中盘旋的问题的答案，有时，你甚至没有意识到自己在寻求安慰。
Nice to meet you, Miles.
很高兴认识你，迈尔斯。
Hope it makes things better for you.
希望它能让你的事情变得更好。
Probably will.
可能会的。
David Kestenbaum Well, today, we have stories of very idiosyncratic experts, all of them with super-specialized knowledge, giving life advice.
David Kestenbaum 嗯，今天，我们有一些非常特殊的专家的故事，他们都拥有超级专业的知识，提供生活建议。
We have one story about a comedian whose jokes have a strange power to change people's lives, another story about a woman in prison who uses the skills she learned outside prison to MacGyver solutions to all kinds of impossible problems, and another where the expert's expertise includes the fact that she successfully had an affair.
我们有一个故事是关于一位喜剧演员的，他的笑话具有改变人们生活的奇怪力量；另一个故事是关于一名监狱里的女人，她利用她在监狱外学到的技能，用 MacGyver 解决了各种不可能的问题；还有一个故事，这位专家的专业知识包括她成功地发生了外遇。
In each of these, you really think, who else could have helped them?
在每一个方面，你真的会想，还有谁可以帮助他们呢？
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Act One, "Ask Daniel." This one starts with someone who gets some advice, though, interestingly, when it begins, they're not looking for advice.
第一幕“问丹尼尔”。这个一开始是有人得到一些建议，但有趣的是，当它开始时，他们并不是在寻求建议。
Aviva DeKornfeld has this one.
Aviva DeKornfeld 有这个。
David was in a situation that so many people find themselves in at one point or another.
很多人都曾经历过大卫的处境。
He was in a relationship that, by every metric, was pretty good.
从各个方面来看，他的关系都非常好。
And yet, somewhere, in the back of his mind, he found himself wondering if it was good enough.
然而，在他内心深处的某个地方，他发现自己在想这是否足够好。
David was 24 and had been dating his girlfriend for three years at that point.
大卫 24 岁，当时已经和女友约会三年了。
I don't know if you've ever went through this yourself, where you just have this slight niggle, you know?
我不知道你自己是否经历过这样的事情，你知道吗？
And you go, I don't know what the niggle is because everything's perfect.
你走吧，我不知道有什么问题，因为一切都很完美。
And the niggle being like a little hint of doubt.
而这个小问题就像是一点点怀疑。
Is that what that is?
是那个东西吗？
Yeah, a slight doubt, slight confusion.
是的，有点怀疑，有点困惑。
It just didn't have that oomph.
它只是没有那种魅力。
I'd say we were vanilla beige, but lovely.
我想说我们是香草米色，但很可爱。
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
David So I mean, you wouldn't be thinking that we were maybe flying off to France and having a romantic getaway together.
大卫，所以我的意思是，你不会认为我们可能会飞往法国并一起度过一个浪漫的假期。
There was nothing wrong, but no-- no--
没有什么问题，但是不——不——
Pasión?
激情？
David Mm-hmm, yeah.
大卫 嗯嗯，是的。
Yeah, there was zero French in any of the relationship.
是的，在任何一段关系中，法语都是零。
It was a very British relationship.
这是一种非常英国式的关系。
One night, David's at a party without his girlfriend, talking with some people.
一天晚上，大卫在一个没有女朋友的聚会上和一些人聊天。
And his friend Daniel, who's newly single and thrilled about it, starts telling everyone about his grand theory of love.
他的朋友丹尼尔刚刚单身，对此感到兴奋不已，他开始向所有人讲述他伟大的爱情理论。
He'd just come up with it.
他刚刚想出这个办法。
The theory went like this-- our life is like a jigsaw puzzle.
这个理论是这样的——我们的生活就像一个拼图游戏。
And as we grow up, we slowly piece the puzzle together, bit by bit.
随着我们的成长，我们慢慢地将拼图一点一点拼凑起来。
But the thing is, we've all lost the box to our individual jigsaws, so none of us know what image we're trying to make.
但问题是，我们都失去了各自拼图的盒子，所以我们都不知道我们想要制作什么图像。
So we start with the four sides-- our family, friends, job, hobbies.
所以我们从四个方面开始——我们的家人、朋友、工作、爱好。
And then we're all taught that the piece at the very center of the jigsaw, the one we need to complete the puzzle, is our partner.
然后我们都被告知，拼图最中心的那一块，也就是我们完成拼图所需的那一块，就是我们的伙伴。
And-- this is the important part-- people are so desperate to find their missing puzzle piece that, sometimes, they try to cram a piece that obviously doesn't fit or strip out other parts in order to make room for that center piece because they believe that to be better than being alone.
而且——这是重要的部分——人们如此渴望找到他们丢失的拼图，有时，他们试图塞进一块明显不合适的拼图，或者去掉其他部分，以便为中心拼图腾出空间，因为他们相信这比独自一人要好。
David is listening to all of this.
大卫正在听这一切。
I just had that "holy shit" moment of, this is my life you're describing right now, and I didn't realize it.
我刚刚经历了“天哪”的时刻，这就是你现在描述的我的生活，但我没有意识到。
David hadn't ever considered breaking up with his girlfriend because there was nothing to break up over.
大卫从未考虑过与女友分手，因为没有什么可分手的。
But hearing Daniel talk about this jigsaw analogy, David begins to panic.
但听到丹尼尔谈论这个拼图类比，大卫开始惊慌。
And then I had this moment where I was like, what do I do?
然后我就想，我该怎么办？
Like, what do I do now with this information?
比如，我现在该如何处理这些信息？
And he's like, well, I think you know what you need to do in this situation.
他说，好吧，我想你知道在这种情况下你需要做什么。
Oh, you literally asked him that?
哦，你真的问过他这个吗？
What do I do?
我该怎么办？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I was really taken back.
我真的被收回了。
Daniel's analogy worms its way into David's brain.
丹尼尔的类比深入大卫的大脑。
And once it's there, he can't shake it.
一旦它在那里，他就无法动摇它。
So he breaks up with his girlfriend.
于是他和女朋友分手了。
And he actually explained the jigsaw analogy to her, as if anyone wants to hear that they're a misshapen puzzle piece, which he tells Daniel the next time he sees him.
他实际上向她解释了拼图的比喻，就好像有人想听他们是一块畸形的拼图一样，他在下次见到丹尼尔时告诉了他。
How did it feel when he told you that they'd broken up because of what you'd said?
当他告诉你他们因为你的话而分手时，你感觉如何？
I mean, he was happy.
我的意思是，他很高兴。
Aviva DeKornfeld Yeah?
艾维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 是吗？
So it felt good.
所以感觉很好。
And I never thought that they were the perfect couple.
我从没想过他们是完美的一对。
I never thought that they would be together forever.
我从来没有想过他们会永远在一起。
Like, when they were together, I was like, oh, this ain't it.
就像，当他们在一起时，我就想，哦，不是这样的。
She's great.
她很棒。
You're great.
你太棒了。
But you together ain't great.
但你们在一起并不好。
This is Daniel, David's friend.
这是丹尼尔，大卫的朋友。
Another friend of theirs, who also heard Daniel's analogy, he broke up with his partner, too.
他们的另一个朋友也听过丹尼尔的比喻，他也和他的伴侣分手了。
Daniel had hit on something.
丹尼尔突然想到了什么。
He's a comedian, Daniel Sloss.
他是喜剧演员丹尼尔·斯洛斯。
Maybe you've heard of him.
也许你听说过他。
And feeling the wind of his friends' breakup under his sails, Daniel starts trying out this bit in bigger venues.
丹尼尔感受到了朋友分手的风，开始在更大的场所尝试这一点。
He told it on stage at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, performed it for a month straight.
他在爱丁堡边缘艺术节的舞台上讲述了这件事，并连续表演了一个月。
Imagine all of our lives are like our own individual jigsaw puzzles.
想象一下，我们所有人的生活就像我们自己的拼图游戏。
And as we're going through life, we're just slowly piecing it together, bit by bit.
当我们经历生命时，我们只是慢慢地、一点一点地拼凑起来。
I was at a nightclub, and a girl came up to me.
我在一家夜总会，一个女孩向我走来。
And she was like, I saw your show a week ago, and I broke up with my partner.
她说，我一周前看了你的节目，然后我和我的伴侣分手了。
And I was like, oh, cool.
我当时想，哦，太酷了。
Awesome.
惊人的。
Like, are you better for it?
比如，你做得更好吗？
She was like, yeah, I'm way better for it.
她说，是的，我做得更好。
I'm much happier.
我高兴多了。
That's why I'm out.
这就是我出去的原因。
Daniel felt like, oh, this little party trick works with strangers, too.
丹尼尔觉得，哦，这个派对小把戏也适用于陌生人。
He started touring with it, performing all around Scotland.
他开始带着它巡演，在苏格兰各地演出。
Some of us will take the wrong person, the wrong jigsaw piece, and just fucking jam them into our jigsaws anyway.
我们中的一些人会拿错人，拿错拼图，然后就把它们塞进我们的拼图里。
This-- he must have been about 50, 52 years old-- guy came up to me, and he went, hey man, just wanted to let you know I saw the show, and I finally got these through.
这个——他一定大约有 50、52 岁——那家伙向我走来，他走了，嘿伙计，只是想让你知道我看过这个节目，我终于把这些看完了。
And he showed me the first divorce papers.
他给我看了第一份离婚文件。
And I remember being like, oh, this is something.
我记得我当时想，哦，这真是个东西。
How long had they been married?
他们结婚多久了？
Do you know?
你知道吗？
[EXHALES] 20 years, I think?
[呼气]20 年了，我想？
Aviva DeKornfeld Oh, my god.
阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 噢，天啊。
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld Then, there was the 19-year-old girl who brought her parents to the show in an attempt to make them realize they were miserable together.
Aviva DeKornfeld 然后，有一个 19 岁的女孩带着她的父母来看演出，试图让他们意识到他们在一起的痛苦。
It worked.
它起作用了。
She asked him to autograph their divorce papers, which he did, happily.
她请他在离婚文件上签名，他高兴地照做了。
Then Daniel started taking the show abroad.
然后丹尼尔开始在国外演出。
We're in Hungary, and a guy had driven, I'm going to say, like, 800 miles from somewhere, like, in Russia with his divorce papers, just to see the show.
我们在匈牙利，有一个人带着离婚文件从 800 英里外的某个地方开车来，我想说的是，在俄罗斯，只是为了看演出。
So funny that people want to show you their divorce papers.
太有趣了，人们想给你看他们的离婚文件。
It's like a cat bringing a dead bird to your doorstep.
这就像一只猫把一只死鸟带到你家门口。
Yeah, that's it.
是的，就是这样。
Aviva DeKornfeld Like, I made it for you.
Aviva DeKornfeld 就像，我为你做的。
[LAUGHS] That's such a great way of describing it.
[笑]这是一个很好的描述方式。
Daniel eventually turned this analogy into an hour-long special called Jigsaw.
丹尼尔最终将这个类比变成了一个长达一小时的特别节目，名为“拼图”。
It's on Netflix.
它在 Netflix 上播出。
And the part in the special where he talks about love and couples stuck in bad relationships honestly feels more like a TED Talk than traditional standup.
在特别节目中，他谈论爱情和陷入不良关系的夫妻的部分老实说感觉更像是一场 TED 演讲，而不是传统的脱口秀。
You can spend five or more years with someone and only then, after all the fun you had, be looking at the jigsaw and realize you're both working towards very different images, only then realize that you want different things.
你可以和某人一起度过五年或更长时间，直到那时，在经历了所有的乐趣之后，看着拼图，才意识到你们都在为截然不同的图像而努力，然后才意识到你们想要不同的东西。
And in that moment, you have a very, very difficult question to ask yourself.
在那一刻，你有一个非常非常困难的问题要问自己。
One, do I admit the last five years of my life have been a waste?
第一，我承认我生命的最后五年是浪费的吗？
Two, do I waste the rest of my life?
二、我是不是在浪费我的余生？
[LAUGHTER] My generation has become so obsessed with starting the rest of their lives that they're willing to give up the one they are currently living.
[笑声]我这一代人已经变得如此痴迷于开始他们的余生，以至于他们愿意放弃他们目前的生活。
We have romanticized the idea of romance, and it is cancerous.
我们已经把浪漫的想法浪漫化了，它是致命的。
I am very aware that this is not a particularly funny bit of the show.
我很清楚这不是节目中特别有趣的部分。
[LAUGHTER] Aviva DeKornfeld Toward the end of the special, Daniel says, if you break up with someone after watching this, please let me know.
[笑声] Aviva DeKornfeld 在特别节目即将结束时，丹尼尔说，如果您在观看此内容后与某人分手，请告诉我。
He's been keeping a rough tally of his breakup stats ever since.
从那时起，他就一直在粗略地统计他的分手统计数据。
To date, between the people who come up to him in person, the tweets he's tagged in, the DMs he gets on Instagram, he estimates that as many as 30,000 couples have split up after seeing his show.
迄今为止，根据亲自来找他的人、他被标记的推文以及他在 Instagram 上收到的私信，他估计有多达 30,000 对情侣在观看他的节目后分手。
The thing I don't understand is, the stuff Daniel says in his special, most of it is not particularly novel.
我不明白的是，丹尼尔在他的特别节目中所说的内容，大部分都不是特别新奇。
His jigsaw analogy isn't that far from a lot of the stuff you might find in a self-help book.
他的拼图类比与你在自助书中可能找到的很多内容并没有那么远。
Like, the idea that you should be happy and whole on your own and you shouldn't settle, that's the thing people tell you about love.
就像，你应该独自快乐、完整，而不应该安定下来，这就是人们告诉你的关于爱情的事情。
So what is it about this guy and the way that he delivers this familiar message?
那么这个人到底是怎么回事以及他传递这个熟悉的信息的方式呢？
Why is it so effective?
为什么这么有效？
I wanted to talk to some of the people who broke up after watching Jigsaw, and let me tell you, they were not very hard to find.
我想和一些看完《Jigsaw》后分手的人谈谈，让我告诉你，他们并不难找到。
I heard from over 50 people from all over-- the US, the UK, Australia, Italy, Kazakhstan, the United Arab Emirates.
我收到了来自美国、英国、澳大利亚、意大利、哈萨克斯坦、阿拉伯联合酋长国等 50 多个人的来信。
I spoke with eight of them.
我与其中八个人进行了交谈。
And there is a real fervor to Daniel's fandom.
丹尼尔的粉丝群体充满了真正的热情。
People speak about him breathlessly, with a kind of awe.
人们谈起他时都气喘吁吁，带着一种敬畏。
They'll quote lines from his special like it's Scripture or something.
他们会引用他的特别节目中的台词，就像圣经或其他什么一样。
One person said she and her friends say, "In Sloss We Trust," as their motto.
一位人士说，她和她的朋友们将“In Sloss We Trust”作为他们的座右铭。
And there are a lot of people out there walking around with puzzle piece tattoos.
有很多人带着拼图纹身四处走动。
Most of the people I spoke with have watched the special over and over to fully absorb the teachings.
与我交谈的大多数人都一遍又一遍地观看特别节目，以充分吸收其中的教义。
Some return to it in moments of doubt after breaking up with their partner.
有些人在与伴侣分手后，在犹豫不决的时刻又回到了这个话题。
And what's crazy to me is that no one I talked to had had any immediate plans to break up with their partner when they first sat down to watch it.
让我感到疯狂的是，与我交谈过的人在第一次坐下来观看时都没有立即计划与伴侣分手。
I came away from those conversations with a couple of theories as to why Daniel's message hit so hard.
谈话结束后，我得出了一些关于为什么丹尼尔的信息如此强烈的理论。
And I want to tell you about one person in particular, Charlotte, because her story encompasses all of them.
我想特别向您介绍一个人，夏洛特，因为她的故事涵盖了所有人。
Charlotte watched Jigsaw back in 2018, shortly after it came out.
夏洛特在 2018 年观看了《拼图》，当时该剧刚上映不久。
She's from East London and, like everyone I spoke with, got together with her husband when she was super young.
她来自东伦敦，和我交谈过的每个人一样，她在很小的时候就和她的丈夫在一起了。
She was 20, still figuring out who she was.
她20岁了，仍然不知道自己是谁。
And Charlotte, like the others, just kind of thought, I guess this is what it feels like to be in a long-term relationship.
夏洛特和其他人一样，只是想，我想这就是长期关系的感觉。
It was flat, just flat.
它是平的，只是平的。
Charlotte had been with her husband for six years when she sat down one night to watch a special alone.
夏洛特已经和她的丈夫在一起六年了，有一天晚上，她坐下来独自观看一部特别节目。
I can remember sitting there and actually not touching my phone, not scroll on anything.
我记得坐在那里，实际上没有碰我的手机，也没有滚动任何东西。
I was absolutely hooked on what he was saying because it felt like he was talking to me, in a weird way.
我完全被他说的话迷住了，因为感觉就像他在以一种奇怪的方式对我说话。
There's a part in the show where he said, you think that you're so special, you think you found your soulmate 30 minutes down the road?
节目中有一个部分他说，你认为你很特别，你认为你在路上30分钟就找到了你的灵魂伴侣？
And I was like, oh, no.
我当时想，哦，不。
There are 7.5 billion people on this planet.
这个星球上有 75 亿人。
And you found your soulmate 20 miles from where you live?
你在距离你住的地方 20 英里的地方找到了你的灵魂伴侣？
[LAUGHTER] Charlotte It was one of those things that it just dawned on me that I've settled.
[笑声] 夏洛特 这是我刚刚意识到的事情之一，我已经解决了。
It's like settling into a bad job.
这就像接受一份糟糕的工作一样。
You're still getting paid.
你仍然得到报酬。
You're still going through the motions.
你还在走过场。
There's somebody there.
那里有人。
You go on holiday.
你去度假吧。
It's not like you're overly happy, but you're not overly sad.
并不是说你过分快乐，但也没有过分悲伤。
Right after watching the special, Charlotte tells her husband, you need to see this-- which, interestingly, was another thing so many of the people I spoke with did.
看完特别节目后，夏洛特告诉她的丈夫，你需要看看这个——有趣的是，这是我采访过的许多人所做的另一件事。
Charlotte told me she hoped it would prompt her husband to take a hard look at their relationship, like it had for her.
夏洛特告诉我，她希望这能促使她的丈夫认真审视他们的关系，就像她一样。
No such luck.
没有这样的运气。
He spent the whole hour on his phone scrolling, not listening at all.
他整整一个小时都在玩手机，根本没有听。
Even after I started following the breakup tally on Twitter, he still wasn't kind of getting how much it really had resonated with me.
即使我开始在推特上关注分手统计，他仍然不知道它到底在多大程度上引起了我的共鸣。
Wait, you showed him how many people had broken up as a result of this special, as like a nudge?
等等，你向他展示了有多少人因为这个特殊事件而分手，就像轻推一样？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld Oh, my god.
阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 噢，天哪。
And what did he say?
他说了什么？
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
Aviva DeKornfeld It sounds like you were kind of trying to tee him up to break up with you.
Aviva DeKornfeld 听起来你有点想劝他和你分手。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld But he was not paying attention?
Aviva DeKornfeld 但他没有注意？
He was not.
他不是。
Aviva DeKornfeld In the end, she had to do it.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德 (Aviva DeKornfeld) 最终，她不得不这么做。
So how did Daniel manage to break through to Charlotte?
那么丹尼尔是如何成功突破夏洛特的呢？
She says part of it was that she was just caught completely off-guard.
她说部分原因是她完全措手不及。
She had no idea what she was getting into when she decided to watch Jigsaw.
当她决定观看 Jigsaw 时，她不知道自己会遇到什么。
Everyone I spoke with said something like this, that the fact that the advice came in the form of a comedy special made it easier to hear, like wrapping a pill in cheese for an unsuspecting dog.
与我交谈过的每个人都说了这样的话，事实上，这些建议以喜剧特辑的形式出现，更容易被听到，就像给毫无戒心的狗用奶酪包裹药丸一样。
I didn't go into watching Jigsaw thinking that I was going to be thinking about breaking up my marriage.
我看《拼图》时并没有想过要离婚。
I was there for a laugh.
我在那里是为了笑。
Another thing about Daniel-- he's super prescriptive.
丹尼尔的另一件事是——他非常有条理。
Charlotte wasn't happy, but that low hum of dissatisfaction she felt, it never quite seemed like enough to blow her life up over.
夏洛特并不高兴，但她感受到的那种低沉的不满，似乎永远不足以摧毁她的生活。
But in his special, it's like Daniel reached out of the screen and grabbed Charlotte by the shoulders and told her, actually, that is enough.
但在他的特别节目中，丹尼尔就像从屏幕中伸出手，抓住夏洛特的肩膀，告诉她，实际上，这就足够了。
It felt like he was saying, well, Charlotte, [CHUCKLES] just because you don't love him anymore doesn't mean you can't break up with him.
感觉就像他在说，好吧，夏洛特，[笑]仅仅因为你不再爱他并不意味着你不能和他分手。
It's like, you can break up with him.
就好像，你可以和他分手了。
Breaking up with someone because you've grown as a person is a valid reason.
因为你作为一个人成长而与某人分手是一个正当的理由。
You should break up with someone whenever.
无论何时，你都应该与某人分手。
And you had never had a friend or a family member say it that directly to you?
您从未有朋友或家人直接对您说过这样的话吗？
No. Aviva DeKornfeld Not at all.
不。Aviva DeKornfeld 完全不。
Charlotte's younger sister hated how different Charlotte was whenever her husband was around, but her sister never told her outright to break up.
夏洛特的妹妹讨厌每当丈夫在身边时夏洛特就与众不同，但她的妹妹从未直接告诉她分手。
Her mom understood that she was unhappy and making a lot of sacrifices in her marriage, but would also say things like, I'm not going to tell you what to do.
她妈妈明白她在婚姻中不快乐并做出了很多牺牲，但也会说，我不会告诉你该怎么做。
Whenever Charlotte's family and friends observed that she didn't seem particularly happy with her husband--
每当夏洛特的家人和朋友发现她似乎对她的丈夫不是特别满意时——
I would defend him.
我会捍卫他。
I would say, oh, well, he's tired, you know?
我会说，哦，好吧，他累了，你知道吗？
He works nights, and would always defend his behavior, even though he would embarrass me.
他晚上工作，总是为自己的行为辩护，即使他会让我难堪。
And, ugh, the fact that I could tell that my family didn't like him and they didn't think that he was-- [SIGHS] he wasn't right for me hurt more because I'd made that choice.
而且，呃，事实上，我可以看出我的家人不喜欢他，他们也不认为他是——[叹气]他不适合我，这一事实让我更受伤，因为我做出了这样的选择。
Do you think it was easier to hear the message from Daniel because he was a stranger?
你是否认为因为丹尼尔是陌生人而更容易听到他的消息？
Yeah.
是的。
People take advice from strangers sometimes more than they do the people closest to them because they don't care in the sense that if I see someone on the tube or whatever, and they've got lipstick on their teeth, and I literally-- I make eye contact with them, and I do that, that motion of, like, wipe their teeth, your friend is going to worry about how to say that to you.
人们有时比最亲近的人更愿意听取陌生人的建议，因为他们不在乎，如果我在地铁上或其他什么地方看到某人，而他们的牙齿上涂着口红，而我确实与他们进行眼神交流，我这样做，就像擦牙一样，你的朋友会担心如何对你说这个。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
Like, you've got lipstick on your teeth.
比如，你的牙齿上沾满了口红。
[CHUCKLES] You've got egg on your face.
[笑]你脸上沾满了鸡蛋。
Daniel's a stranger.
丹尼尔是个陌生人。
This, I think, is another reason why he's able to cut through.
我认为，这也是他能够突破的另一个原因。
Because there's no embarrassment when you hear what he thinks about your bad choices, the way you might feel with a friend.
因为当你听到他对你的错误选择的看法时，你不会感到尴尬，就像你和朋友在一起时的感受一样。
Daniel is a neutral party who can point out a problem on his way out the door entirely uninvested in what happens next.
丹尼尔是一个中立的一方，他可以在离开时指出问题，完全不关心接下来会发生什么。
I think there's one more reason so many people split up after watching Jigsaw, maybe the most important factor in all this.
我认为还有一个原因让这么多人在看完 Jigsaw 后分手，也许是这一切中最重要的因素。
I first heard about Jigsaw when it came out in 2018.
我第一次听说 Jigsaw 是在 2018 年它推出的时候。
At the time, I was in a relationship with someone who was pretty clearly not a good match for me long-term.
当时，我正在和一个显然不适合我长期发展的人交往。
And so when I heard how many couples this special was breaking up, I thought, no way am I watching that.
所以当我听说这部特别节目有多少对情侣分手时，我想，我绝对不会看这个。
I know it'll happen.
我知道这会发生。
My relationship will never survive this.
我的关系将永远无法维持下去。
I'm not in that situation anymore.
我不再处于那种情况了。
So recently, I decided it was finally safe to see the show.
所以最近，我决定终于可以安全地观看演出了。
And I have to say, I was totally right to be scared of it.
我不得不说，我的害怕是完全正确的。
There are moments in there that I know would have gotten me back then, like this terrible thought about being in a relationship that you don't know how to leave--
我知道其中的某些时刻会让我回到那时，就像这种可怕的想法，关于处于一段你不知道如何离开的关系中——
But you just sit there, and you wait.
但你只是坐在那里，等待。
You wait looking for an excuse to get out, just waiting for them to do something unforgivable so that you can actually break up with them with a real excuse and leave with your head held high.
你等着找借口出去，就等着他们做出一些不可原谅的事情，这样你就可以用真正的借口和他们分手，昂首阔步地离开。
But because unlike you, they're not a piece of shit, they won't do that.
但因为与你不同，他们不是一坨屎，所以他们不会那样做。
[LAUGHTER] So you have to start lowering your standards for what unforgivable is.
[笑声] 所以你必须开始降低不可原谅的标准。
[LAUGHTER] One week in, you're like, if they cheat on me, this is perfect.
[笑声] 一周后，你会想，如果他们欺骗了我，那就太完美了。
I can leave with my head held high, and I will not look like a dick.
我可以昂首阔步地离开，不会显得像个混蛋。
Nine weeks later, they're faithful, and you're like, man, if they buy orange juice with pulp in it, that is--
九周后，他们变得忠诚了，你会说，伙计，如果他们买了带果肉的橙汁，那就是——
[LAUGHTER] I can't live like that.
[笑声]我不能那样生活。
All I'm asking is, if you've ever been in a situation like that, in a relationship where you felt trapped, like you couldn't get out of it, and it was just easier to stay in it, all I'm asking is, even for the briefest of seconds, have you ever accidentally caught yourself thinking how much easier life would be--
我要问的是，如果你曾经遇到过这样的情况，在一段关系中，你感觉自己被困住了，好像你无法摆脱它，而且留在其中会更容易，我要问的是，即使是最短暂的几秒钟，你是否曾经不小心发现自己在想，生活会变得多么容易——
And not because you want them to die, but just because them dying is the easiest way for you to get out of that relationship.
并不是因为你希望他们死，而是因为他们的死是你摆脱这段关系的最简单的方法。
And it doesn't involve either one of you getting hurt--
而且这并不涉及你们任何一个人受到伤害——
I have to say, I totally had that thought in my 2018 relationship.
我不得不说，我在2018年的恋爱中完全有这样的想法。
And it's not even that you want the other person to die so much as you just kind of want them to evaporate because breaking up with them just feels impossible.
甚至你并不是那么希望对方死去，而是希望他们消失，因为与他们分手感觉是不可能的。
I had never said this thought out loud before watching the special.
在观看特别节目之前，我从未大声说出这个想法。
I didn't even know this was a thought other people had.
我什至不知道这是其他人的想法。
And hearing it laid out in such a bare way, I know it would have been impossible to ignore.
听到它以如此简单的方式布置，我知道它是不可能被忽视的。
That's the thing about the show.
这就是节目的主题。
The jigsaw analogy is a sound that only people in quietly unhappy relationships can hear.
拼图类比是一种只有处于不愉快关系中的人才能听到的声音。
If what Daniel is saying reaches you, it's because there's a little radio tower in your head tuned to receive his message.
如果丹尼尔所说的话传到了你的耳朵里，那是因为你脑子里有一个小无线电塔正在接收他的信息。
Aviva DeKornfeld is a producer on our show.
Aviva DeKornfeld 是我们节目的制片人。
Daniel Sloss's specials, including the one you just heard about, are at danielsloss.com/streaming.
丹尼尔·斯洛斯 (Daniel Sloss) 的特别节目，包括您刚刚听说的那一期，请访问 danielsloss.com/streaming。
Watch it if you dare.
如果你敢的话就看吧。
Coming up, let's do this one Jeopardy-style.
接下来，让我们以危险边缘的方式来做这件事。
The answer is combine "no more tears" baby shampoo and Vaseline into a paste.
答案是将“不再流泪”婴儿洗发水和凡士林混合成糊状。
The question?
问题是？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm David Kestenbaum in for Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯的大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our show today, You've Come to the Right Person, stories about people finding very specific guides through life's great mysteries.
我们今天的节目《你找到了对的人》讲述了人们在人生的伟大奥秘中找到非常具体的指南的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two, "Ask Kwaneta."
我们已经到了第二幕“问夸内塔”。
So this story is about someone with very specialized knowledge, giving advice in a very specific place.
所以这个故事是关于一个拥有非常专业知识的人在一个非常具体的地方提供建议的故事。
I'll just note, if you're listening with kids, this story includes some adult topics.
我只想指出，如果您和孩子们一起听，这个故事包括一些成人主题。
It's an essay by Kwaneta Harris.
这是夸内塔·哈里斯 (Kwaneta Harris) 的一篇文章。
And to introduce it, one of our co-workers here, Diane Wu, called her up.
为了介绍这一点，我们的一位同事 Diane Wu 给她打电话。
So, Kwaneta, can you say where you are right now?
那么，Kwaneta，你能说出你现在在哪里吗？
I am in my cell in Texas in a women's prison.
我在德克萨斯州女子监狱的牢房里。
And before you were incarcerated, what was your job?
在您入狱之前，您的工作是什么？
What was your special expertise?
您的特殊专长是什么？
Oh, I was a nurse.
哦，我是一名护士。
I was a nurse who floated from the emergency room to oncology to geriatric care, home health care.
我是一名护士，从急诊室转到肿瘤科，再到老年护理、家庭保健。
Can you hear me OK here?
你能听到我说话吗？
Or should I stand somewhere else?
或者我应该站在其他地方？
Am I OK?
我还好吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Where is that?
哪里是？
Where are you standing?
你站在哪里？
On top of the toilet seat.
在马桶座圈的上面。
Diane Wu Really?
吴黛安 真的吗？
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
Holding my tablet in the air like Lady Liberty.
像自由女神一样将我的平板电脑举在空中。
Yeah.
是的。
And I have the other hand on the wall to hold on.
我还有另一只手放在墙上可以握住。
So you and I have been working on this story for a while now, right?
所以你和我已经研究这个故事有一段时间了，对吧？
Yes.
是的。
It's been a minute.
一分钟过去了。
Diane Wu Yeah.
吴黛安 是的。
And we were hoping to come to the prison and record you, but they denied our request.
我们本来希望能去监狱给你录音，但他们拒绝了我们的请求。
And since the phone line is bad, and we don't want you to have to read the story standing on top of your toilet, we decided to bring in an actor to read the essay instead.
由于电话线很糟糕，而且我们不希望您必须站在马桶上阅读故事，因此我们决定请一位演员来阅读这篇文章。
Oh, thank god.
哦，感谢上帝。
Diane Wu Could you read the first couple of lines of the story to get us started?
吴黛安（Diane Wu），你能读一下故事的前几行来帮助我们开始吗？
And then we'll cross-fade to the actor.
然后我们将交叉淡入淡出到演员。
Sure.
当然。
The first thing that happened was I lost everything.
发生的第一件事就是我失去了一切。
I remember exactly the moment I realized it.
我清楚地记得我意识到这一点的那一刻。
I remember exactly the moment I realized it.
我清楚地记得我意识到这一点的那一刻。
It was in 2009-- Kecia Lewis It was in 2009, just a couple of weeks after I had been transferred from the county jail to prison.
那是在 2009 年—— Kecia Lewis 那是在 2009 年，就在我从县监狱转入监狱几周后。
I'd injured my shoulder working in the kitchen, stirring pots with canoe-sized paddles.
我在厨房工作时用独木舟大小的桨搅拌锅，肩膀受伤了。
So I went to medical.
所以我去看医生。
I entered a crowded waiting room, interrupting a lecture by a med tech and a guard, when they asked me, what did I want?
我走进一间拥挤的候诊室，打断了一名医疗技术人员和一名警卫的讲座，他们问我，我想要什么？
With all eyes on me, I said, I need some ibuprofen for my shoulder.
在所有人的注视下，我说，我的肩膀需要一些布洛芬。
The med tech launched into a sermon-- stop looking for a quick fix; stop popping pills; try to stay clean; pray on it; drink more water and lose weight.
医疗技术人员发起了一场布道——停止寻找快速解决方案；停止服用药片；尽量保持清洁；为之祈祷；多喝水并减肥。
All that for a few Motrin.
所有这一切都是为了一些莫林。
As she talked, I noticed she was wearing the exact same scrubs I had in my bedroom closet at home-- light blue ones with the pink breast cancer awareness ribbon all over them.
当她说话时，我注意到她穿着和我家里卧室衣柜里一模一样的手术服——浅蓝色的，上面到处都是粉红色的乳腺癌意识丝带。
It hit me like a body punch to see her in those scrubs, talking to me in such dehumanizing language.
看到她穿着那些工作服，用如此非人性的语言对我说话，我就像受到了重击。
Before, she would have been one of my colleagues.
以前，她可能是我的同事之一。
Now, I was on this other side, and there was no way back.
现在，我已经到了另一边，没有回头路了。
But then, a window back to my old life appeared.
但随后，一扇回到我过去生活的窗口出现了。
I started to get medical questions from the women incarcerated with me.
我开始收到和我一起关押的女性提出的医疗问题。
It took a few years.
这花了几年时间。
Word got out early on that I was a nurse.
我很早就有消息说我是一名护士。
But there are many nurses in prison.
但监狱里有很多护士。
Some of them are in prison because they were doing nefarious things as a nurse, so people didn't want to ask them for help.
他们中的一些人因为作为护士做了邪恶的事情而入狱，所以人们不想向他们寻求帮助。
But once it was cleared up that I wasn't one of the nurses that hurt their patients, I slowly started getting questions.
但一旦弄清楚我不是伤害病人的护士之一，我就慢慢开始收到问题。
People would come and talk to me in the yard or in the shower.
人们会在院子里或淋浴间来和我说话。
Or when people were too ashamed to ask out loud, they would write it down on a tiny slip of paper and get it to me.
或者当人们羞于大声询问时，他们会把它写在一张小纸条上然后交给我。
First, it was just the girls in my dorm.
首先，只有我宿舍里的女孩们。
Then they started asking for their friends, who told their friends.
然后他们开始询问他们的朋友，他们的朋友告诉了他们的朋友。
Now, over a decade later, I get notes from almost every women's prison in Texas.
十多年后的现在，我收到了德克萨斯州几乎所有女子监狱的记录。
These notes are surreptitiously passed during meal time or laundry exchange, tucked into dirty socks or folded under a tray, passed between women from different prisons on the bus to the prison hospital.
这些纸条会在用餐时间或换洗衣物时偷偷传递，塞进脏袜子或折叠在托盘下，在前往监狱医院的公共汽车上在来自不同监狱的妇女之间传递。
Many are from strangers who have just heard that they can write to Mama Detroit-- that's me.
许多来自陌生人，他们刚刚听说他们可以写信给底特律妈妈——那就是我。
They're folded up in a square with tiny writing on white or colored pieces of paper, on the inside of candy wrappers, the thin plastic from Kotex pads.
它们被折叠成一个正方形，在白色或彩色的纸片上写着小字，在糖果包装纸的内侧，即由 Kotex 制成的薄塑料垫上。
I even get questions on squares of toilet paper.
我什至收到有关卫生纸的问题。
One reads, "My roommate uses her inhaler all the time.
其中一张写道：“我的室友一直使用她的吸入器。
I think she's addicted to it.
我想她已经上瘾了。
Is that possible?"
这可能吗？”
Another girl who's in a church choir here wrote about someone she sings with.
这里教堂唱诗班的另一个女孩写了一篇关于和她一起唱歌的人的故事。
"When she sings, her breath smells up the whole choir.
“当她唱歌时，她的呼吸充满了整个合唱团。
Her teeth are all rotten, and peppermints are not helping.
她的牙齿全都烂了，薄荷糖也无济于事。
What can we do?" The range of questions people ask is very wide, anything from, "What's this medicine for?" to, "Which homemade dildo is safest?" None of them.
我们能做什么？”人们提出的问题范围非常广泛，从“这个药有什么用？”等各种问题。到“哪种自制假阳具最安全？”没有一个。
Everyone involved in passing the notes is taking a risk-- the writer, the person delivering the note, me.
每个参与传递纸条的人都在冒险——作者、传递纸条的人、我。
If you're caught with a note on you, it can be a disciplinary infraction, possession of contraband.
如果你被发现身上有纸条，这可能是违反纪律、持有违禁品。
If you have three or more of these infractions in 30 days, that can get upgraded to a major case, which can be used to justify a parole denial.
如果您在 30 天内犯有 3 起或以上此类违规行为，则可能会升级为重大案件，从而可以用来证明拒绝假释的合理性。
I deliberately store all my unread notes in a brown paper bag in the corner of my cell, so I can always claim it's trash.
我特意将所有未读的笔记存放在牢房角落的牛皮纸袋中，这样我就可以随时声称它是垃圾。
Lou wrote to me about her friend Prissy, who bought contraband eyeshadow from someone working in the prison print shop.
卢写信给我介绍了她的朋友普里西（Prissy），她从监狱印刷店的工作人员那里购买了违禁眼影。
The print shop has pretty bright-powdered ink that people steal for makeup.
印刷店有非常亮丽的粉末墨水，人们会偷来用来化妆。
Lou wrote that Prissy couldn't get the blue eyeshadow off.
卢写道，普莉西无法把蓝色眼影去掉。
"She tried toothpaste.
“她尝试了牙膏。
It stained.
它染色了。
She looking like a fat-ass Smurf."
她看起来就像一个胖屁股蓝精灵。”
I wrote back, "Mix No More Tears Baby Shampoo and Vaseline into a paste.
我回信说：“将无泪婴儿洗发水和凡士林混合成糊状。
Apply to your eyelid overnight, then wipe rubbing alcohol repeatedly to the area.
将其涂在眼睑上过夜，然后用酒精反复擦拭该区域。
It will slowly fade to green and then eventually disappear." I know this won't be the last time someone accidentally cosplays a cartoon character, though.
它会慢慢褪成绿色，然后最终消失。”不过，我知道这不会是最后一次有人不小心扮演卡通人物。
We all miss feeling human, you know?
我们都怀念人性的感觉，你知道吗？
Like our old selves.
就像我们过去的自己一样。
For me, answering these questions, it made me feel like my old self.
对我来说，回答这些问题让我感觉就像以前的自己一样。
It was a way for me to still be a caregiver.
这是我仍然担任看护者的一种方式。
I felt needed.
我感到被需要。
I was needed in a very particular way I hadn't been on the outside.
人们以一种非常特殊的方式需要我，而我却不是在外面。
Because first, the medical care that exists in our prison is extremely lacking.
因为首先，我们监狱里的医疗条件极其缺乏。
There are only a handful of medical providers for the 1,200 people here.
这里只有少数医疗服务提供者，为这里的 1,200 人提供服务。
You have to pay to go to medical, $13.55 per visit, which is a king's ransom when we're forced to work in here for free.
你必须付费去看病，每次 13.55 美元，当我们被迫在这里免费工作时，这简直就是天大的赎金。
And when you get there, they treat you like crap.
当你到达那里时，他们会像对待垃圾一样对待你。
And the medical staff can't answer their questions as well as I can because unlike the people they're treating, they aren't incarcerated.
医务人员无法像我一样回答他们的问题，因为与他们正在治疗的人不同，他们没有被监禁。
I know the materials available to women-- Vaseline, baby shampoo.
我知道女性可用的材料——凡士林、婴儿洗发水。
I know the exact way to ask for certain treatments without getting punished.
我知道在不受到惩罚的情况下要求某些治疗的确切方法。
Like for yeast infections, going in and saying "I have a yeast infection" will often lead the nurse to start asking about your sex life.
就像酵母菌感染一样，进去并说“我有酵母菌感染”通常会导致护士开始询问您的性生活。
And if you let slip that you have a girlfriend, the guards supervising your appointment can write you a disciplinary.
如果你无意中透露自己有女朋友，监督你预约的警卫可以给你写一份纪律处分。
The safer way I tell people is to tell the nurse you took antibiotics recently and are noticing this side effect.
我告诉人们的更安全的方法是告诉护士您最近服用了抗生素并且注意到了这种副作用。
You have to let the nurse think she figured it out.
你必须让护士认为她已经明白了。
Also, I know the various factors the women are weighing when they consider their own care.
另外，我知道女性在考虑自己的护理时会权衡各种因素。
For instance, early on, one of the most common medical questions people would write to me was, "Do I really need to get a mammogram?"
例如，早期，人们写信给我的最常见的医疗问题之一是“我真的需要做乳房X光检查吗？”
I know what they mean when they ask this.
当他们问这个问题时，我知道他们的意思。
We all hate the mammogram trip.
我们都讨厌乳房X光检查之旅。
We have to take a nausea inducing bus ride that freezes us during the winter and cooks us in the summers.
我们不得不乘坐令人恶心的公共汽车，冬天我们会被冻住，夏天我们会被煮熟。
We have to pack all of our belongings to send to storage while we're gone.
当我们离开时，我们必须收拾好所有物品并送到仓库。
And when we move back, they assign us a new roommate.
当我们搬回来时，他们给我们分配了一个新室友。
It's so hard to get a decent roommate.
找到一个称职的室友太难了。
Few people want to risk losing that by leaving.
很少有人愿意冒着失去这一点的风险离开。
When people ask me if it's worth going on the trip, I write back, explaining breast cancer and ask if their mom or anyone else in their family has a history of cancer.
当人们问我是否值得去旅行时，我会回信解释乳腺癌，并询问他们的妈妈或家庭中的其他人是否有癌症病史。
I try to convince them and myself that it's only once a year and probably worth going.
我试图说服他们和我自己，这样的活动每年只有一次，而且可能值得一去。
But the prison instituted a new rule last summer.
但监狱去年夏天制定了一项新规则。
They now promise to hold our assigned bed and roommate for a week.
他们现在承诺为我们分配的床位和室友保留一周。
People are still refusing to go, though, even though you could get a disciplinary infraction if you skipped the trip.
然而，人们仍然拒绝前往，尽管如果你不去旅行可能会受到纪律处分。
Ain't nobody riding in that wheeled cauldron.
没有人骑在那个带轮子的大锅里。
More questions I've received-- "My roommate got lupus.
我收到的更多问题——“我的室友得了狼疮。
Can I catch it from her?" No, you don't have to worry about that.
我能从她手里接住吗？”不，你不必担心这个。
It's an autoimmune disease, which means it's her body fighting her body.
这是一种自身免疫性疾病，这意味着她的身体在对抗她的身体。
This girl wrote me and said, "I pee only a little bit each time I go.
这个女孩写信给我说：“我每次去只尿一点点。
Is this my prostate?" That's not your prostate.
这是我的前列腺吗？”那不是你的前列腺。
You don't have one.
你没有。
This is a UTI.
这是尿路感染。
I have two girls in here who wrote me with signs and symptoms of endometriosis.
我这里有两个女孩给我写信，告诉我子宫内膜异位症的体征和症状。
The problem is, the only way you can diagnose endometriosis is surgery.
问题是，诊断子宫内膜异位症的唯一方法是手术。
I'm still figuring out what to write back to them.
我还在考虑该给他们回信什么。
I used to think my special expertise was to help women who were incarcerated with me.
我曾经认为我的特殊专长是帮助与我一起被监禁的女性。
But then, I started getting mail from released friends, too, like one from my friend I'll call Flaca, who asked me what can she drink to get rid of her pregnancy?
但后来，我也开始收到被释放的朋友发来的邮件，比如我的朋友弗拉卡发来的一封邮件，她问我她可以喝什么来摆脱怀孕？
She was sexually assaulted by a guest at the motel where she works.
她在她工作的汽车旅馆里遭到一名客人的性侵犯。
Abortions are illegal in Texas.
堕胎在德克萨斯州是非法的。
Flaca has a snitch on her ankle in the form of an electronic GPS monitor, so she can't slip over to New Mexico and get abortion care.
弗拉卡的脚踝上有一个电子 GPS 监视器形式的告密者，所以她无法溜到新墨西哥州接受堕胎护理。
She can't get medical abortion pills mailed to her in the faith-based halfway house that opens all incoming mail.
她无法在打开所有收到邮件的信仰中途之家收到邮寄给她的药物堕胎药。
Flaca still has to figure out how to get health care while being surveilled and restricted.
弗拉卡仍然需要弄清楚如何在受到监视和限制的情况下获得医疗保健。
These days, it feels like women all over Texas do, not just those of us in prison.
如今，感觉德克萨斯州各地的女性都在这样做，而不仅仅是我们这些监狱里的女性。
All I could tell her was to call the National Planned Parenthood hotline, not from her phone, because parole officers might search her phone history.
我只能告诉她拨打国家计划生育协会热线，而不是用她的电话，因为假释官员可能会搜索她的电话记录。
I was relieved to hear that she ended up getting the pills by having them delivered to someone else's address.
听说她最终通过将药片送到别人的地址来获得药片，我感到很欣慰。
I just hope it's a friend, somebody who won't try to extort or tell on her.
我只希望这是一个朋友，一个不会试图勒索或告发她的人。
Flaca is still on parole.
弗拉卡仍在假释中。
Since receiving Flaca's letter a year ago, I have received eight more letters from women asking for abortion care resources.
自从一年前收到弗拉卡的信以来，我又收到了八封来自妇女的来信，要求提供堕胎护理资源。
When I've needed medical advice, I don't have anyone to ask for help.
当我需要医疗建议时，我没有人可以寻求帮助。
I've had to figure out how to be my own Mama Detroit.
我必须弄清楚如何成为我自己的底特律妈妈。
About nine years ago, I was sent to solitary confinement, and a few years in, I started to feel like I was losing it.
大约九年前，我被单独监禁，几年后，我开始感觉自己正在失去它。
I couldn't sleep, and I started to get incredibly emotional.
我无法入睡，我开始变得非常情绪化。
One day, one of the girls below me told three of us through a shared heating vent-- that's our phone-- about a letter from her father asking for forgiveness.
有一天，我下面的一个女孩通过共用的暖气通风口（也就是我们的电话）告诉我们三个人，她父亲写了一封请求宽恕的信。
As I stood listening at my vent, I just couldn't stop crying.
当我站在通风口聆听时，我无法停止哭泣。
This was not normal for me, but I had read about how, in solitary, people react differently to extreme isolation.
这对我来说并不正常，但我读过有关人们在独处时对极端孤立的反应如何不同的信息。
Then my memory started to go.
然后我的记忆开始消失。
I started needing to use my cell walls as a whiteboard to jot down reminders for myself-- the date of my daughter's next volleyball game or what three things I wanted to talk about at my next doctor appointment.
我开始需要用牢房的墙壁作为白板来记下自己的提醒——我女儿下一场排球比赛的日期，或者我想在下次看医生时谈论的三件事。
My memory has always been really, really good.
我的记忆力一直都非常非常好。
My second husband used to say that we got divorced because of my memory because I just couldn't let things go.
我的第二任丈夫曾经说过，我们离婚是因为我的记忆，因为我就是无法放手。
It was hard to let go that he kept cheating.
很难放手他一直在作弊。
So when I started not being able to remember anything, it was a really scary moment for me.
所以当我开始记不起任何事情时，这对我来说是一个非常可怕的时刻。
I couldn't focus on what I was reading.
我无法专注于正在阅读的内容。
My body ached.
我的身体疼痛。
It was late 2020, and I thought, this is long COVID.
那是 2020 年底，我想，这已经是漫长的新冠疫情了。
This is solitary confinement.
这就是单独监禁。
Finally, one of my friends on the outside wrote to me saying, you think it might be menopause?
最后，我的一位外面的朋友写信给我说，你觉得可能是更年期了？
I told her, I am not that old.
我告诉她，我还没那么老。
I was only 48.
我当时才48岁。
They never taught us about menopause in nursing school.
他们从来没有在护士学校教过我们有关更年期的知识。
It was just some punchline about hot flashes, which I started to get, too.
这只是关于潮热的一些妙语，我也开始明白了。
There isn't air conditioning in our prison building in Texas.
我们德克萨斯州的监狱大楼没有空调。
It gets so hot in the summer that Coke cans will just spontaneously explode.
夏天太热了，可乐罐会自爆。
Toothpaste liquefies.
牙膏会液化。
In June 2019, I fainted from the heat, and the sergeant took the temperature in my cell that day-- 129 degrees.
2019年6月，我热晕了，警长那天给我牢房量了体温——129度。
So I already felt like I was being cooked before the hot flashes.
所以在潮热之前我就已经感觉自己被煮熟了。
But when that burning feeling hits the middle of my chest, then radiates to the rest of my body, it's unbearable.
但当那种灼烧感袭到我的胸口中央，然后辐射到我身体的其他部位时，我就难以忍受了。
I learned to keep bowls filled with tap water to dump over my head at the start of each hot flash.
我学会了在每次潮热开始时，把碗里装满自来水，倒在头上。
I always expect the water to sizzle.
我总是希望水会嘶嘶作响。
So I wrote to my friends back home and asked what they use to treat their menopausal symptoms.
于是我写信给家乡的朋友，询问他们用什么来治疗更年期症状。
They told me about black cohosh, flaxseed, apricots, and berries, but the general consensus was that the most effective treatment was estrogen vaginal cream and hormone replacement therapy.
他们告诉我黑升麻、亚麻籽、杏子和浆果，但普遍的共识是最有效的治疗方法是雌激素阴道霜和激素替代疗法。
My friends inside prison told me, there's no way you're going to get any of those.
我在监狱里的朋友告诉我，你不可能得到这些。
I went to dreaded medical and tried for three years to get hormone replacement therapy.
我去看了可怕的医疗，并尝试了三年来接受激素替代疗法。
I finally got a prescription, and the change was instantaneous.
我终于拿到了处方，变化是瞬间发生的。
It was like a switch turned me back into the old me.
就像一个开关让我变回了原来的我。
My skin cleared up, my hair regained thickness, my mood was lighter, and the brain fog cleared.
我的皮肤变干净了，头发恢复了浓密，心情轻松了，脑雾也散了。
Best of all, the hot flashes stopped.
最重要的是，潮热停止了。
It was a miracle drug, until the prescription ran out after two months.
这是一种神奇的药物，直到两个月后处方用完。
The doctors would not give me a refill.
医生不会给我续药。
That was two years ago.
那是两年前的事了。
So here I am, living with all my symptoms, waiting for this phase to pass.
所以我在这里，带着所有的症状生活，等待这个阶段过去。
The symptoms can last a decade.
这些症状可持续十年。
Studies show Black women experience more hot flashes, longer hot flashes, and longer perimenopause.
研究表明，黑人女性会经历更多的潮热、更长的潮热和更长的围绝经期。
I learned this from the radio and from a pamphlet about menopause that I asked my lawyer to send me.
我是从收音机和我请律师寄给我的一本有关更年期的小册子中了解到这一点的。
When I tried to learn more by ordering books like The Menopause Manifesto, the prison denied the books for being sexually explicit.
当我试图通过订购《更年期宣言》等书籍来了解更多信息时，监狱以露骨色情为由拒绝了这些书。
Meanwhile, I've gotten a few questions from other neighbors about menopause.
与此同时，我收到了其他邻居关于更年期的一些问题。
We're all getting older in here.
我们都在这里变老了。
After all these years, I'm not tired of answering questions yet, but I am tired of answering the same questions.
这么多年了，我还没有厌倦回答问题，但我厌倦了回答同样的问题。
I am tired of repeating the same answers.
我厌倦了重复相同的答案。
Depo shot is the name of the birth control everyone wants because the guards don't hand out enough pads and tampons.
Depo shot 是每个人都想要的避孕方法的名称，因为警卫没有分发足够的卫生巾和卫生棉条。
The flu shot will not give you the flu.
流感疫苗不会让您患上流感。
No, the COVID vaccine didn't have a chip in it.
不，新冠疫苗中没有芯片。
Tampons don't cause cancer.
卫生棉条不会致癌。
They don't cause infertility.
它们不会导致不孕。
I thought by 2025, we'd move on to something else.
我想到 2025 年，我们会转向其他事情。
But the girls still aren't getting this information anywhere else.
但女孩们仍然没有从其他地方得到这些信息。
I wish I could put the 10 most asked questions on a flyer and just pass them out.
我希望我能把 10 个最常见的问题放在传单上然后分发出去。
But that's not how it works in here.
但这里不是这样的。
So I keep writing.
所以我继续写。
Kwaneta Harris's story was read by the actor Kecia Lewis.
演员凯西娅·刘易斯 (Kecia Lewis) 朗读了夸内塔·哈里斯 (Kwaneta Harris) 的故事。
You can see her on Broadway now, in her Tony Award-winning role in the musical, Hell's Kitchen.
现在你可以在百老汇看到她在音乐剧《地狱厨房》中扮演的托尼奖获奖角色。
We did reach out to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for comment.
我们确实联系了德克萨斯州刑事司法部征求意见。
They told us that guards are not supposed to be writing disciplinary infractions for notes, unless they are violent or drug-related, and that The Menopause Manifesto is on the approved book list.
他们告诉我们，警卫不应该将违纪行为写在笔记上，除非它们是暴力或与毒品有关的，并且《更年期宣言》在批准的书籍清单上。
Also, Kwaneta has moved prisons over the years.
此外，夸内塔多年来还搬迁了监狱。
In her current one, the mammogram trip isn't as long.
在她目前的一次检查中，乳房X光检查行程并没有那么长。
Our story was produced by Diane Wu.
我们的故事由吴黛安制作。
You can find more of Kwaneta's writing on her Substack, Write or Die, Raw Dispatches from a Texas Women's Prison.
您可以在她的 Substack、Write or Die、Raw Dispatches from a Texas Women's Prison 中找到更多 Kwaneta 的作品。
Act Three, "Ask Harriotte." So earlier in the show, we had a story about how to know when to leave a relationship.
第三幕“问哈里奥特”。在节目的早期，我们有一个关于如何知道何时离开一段关系的故事。
This last story is about a woman who wishes she had that problem.
最后一个故事是关于一个希望自己有这个问题的女人的。
And for the second time in today's show, here's Diane Wu.
这是黛安·吴（Diane Wu）第二次出现在今天的节目中。
Juna's life outside of dating is as busy as a rom-com heroine's.
约会之外，朱娜的生活就像浪漫喜剧女主角一样忙碌。
She lives outside Boston, near her family and a ton of beloved friends.
她住在波士顿郊外，靠近她的家人和许多心爱的朋友。
She has a job she likes, fills her free time with jujitsu and weightlifting.
她有一份自己喜欢的工作，空闲时间就用柔术和举重来打发。
She can deadlift 370 pounds, which, if you don't know what that means, it's as impressive as it sounds.
她可以硬拉 370 磅，如果你不知道这意味着什么，这就像听起来一样令人印象深刻。
Juna's dream is to meet someone at the gym, but that hasn't happened yet.
朱娜的梦想是在健身房见到某人，但这还没有实现。
Because a lot of men are very afraid to approach women at the gym, which I totally understand because, obviously, people, a lot of time, don't want to be disturbed in their workouts.
因为很多男人都非常害怕在健身房接近女性，我完全理解这一点，因为很明显，人们很多时候不想在锻炼时受到打扰。
Yeah.
是的。
Juna But there are people that want to be disturbed-- me-- by a hot man.
朱娜 但是有些人想要被一个帅哥打扰——我。
Anyways.
无论如何。
Juna is 29 and has never had a boyfriend-- not for lack of trying.
朱娜今年 29 岁，从未有过男朋友——并不是因为缺乏尝试。
In high school and college, she was a nerdy pianist who didn't really date.
在高中和大学时，她是一位书呆子钢琴家，并没有真正约会过。
But five years ago, she got on the apps.
但五年前，她开始使用这些应用程序。
On her first date, she was so nervous that her teeth were chattering as she waited for the guy to arrive.
第一次约会时，她在等待那个男人到来时非常紧张，牙齿打战。
It didn't go great.
进展不太顺利。
Very few of them have.
他们中很少有人有。
Sometimes, it feels like in her friend group, she's the last one standing.
有时，感觉就像在她的朋友圈子里，她是最后一个站着的人。
I feel like we've always all been single, like a lot of my best friends.
我觉得我们一直都是单身，就像我的很多最好的朋友一样。
And now they're all in relationships.
现在他们都处于恋爱关系中。
And that's when I'm like, it's because I'm blind.
那时我就想，那是因为我瞎了。
Juna's been blind since she was a little kid.
朱娜从小就双目失明。
She grew up in Albania, moved to Boston when she was five.
她在阿尔巴尼亚长大，五岁时搬到波士顿。
The way her blindness works is that everything is very, very blurry.
她失明的原因是一切都非常非常模糊。
She reads on her phone by zooming in a lot and then holding it right up to her face.
她在手机上阅读时会放大很多，然后将其举到脸上。
The friends she's thinking of who've paired off, they're sighted.
她想到的那些配对的朋友，他们都被看见了。
There's no other thing that explains why it's been so difficult for me.
没有其他事情可以解释为什么这对我来说如此困难。
I just, like, can't pinpoint another thing that separates me from the other people that I feel like are successful besides being blind.
我只是想，除了盲目之外，我无法指出其他什么东西可以将我与其他我认为成功的人区分开来。
Juna's like, I think I'm at least average pretty.
朱娜说，我想我至少算中等漂亮。
I think she's pretty.
我觉得她很漂亮。
I'm fun to talk to-- also true.
和我聊天很有趣——也是如此。
What gives?
什么给？
She experiments with putting that she's blind on her dating profile.
她尝试让自己对自己的约会资料视而不见。
The number of matches she gets plummets-- it doesn't surprise her.
她参加的比赛数量直线下降——这并不令她感到惊讶。
She feels like meeting people in real life is also harder because of things like eye contact, which doesn't come naturally to her.
她觉得在现实生活中与人见面也更困难，因为眼神交流之类的事情对她来说并不自然。
I will often look at people's mouths because that's what their voice comes from.
我会经常看人们的嘴，因为那是他们声音的来源。
So I think I'm always, like, 4 inches under eye contact.
所以我想我的目光接触总是在 4 英寸以下。
And sometimes I'll consciously make an effort to look higher than where I want to look.
有时我会有意识地努力让自己看起来比我想要的更高。
But then I get very uncomfortable because another big insecurity I have is that my eyes make people uncomfortable.
但后来我感到非常不舒服，因为我的另一个很大的不安全感是我的眼睛让人不舒服。
And so I kind of feel bad looking at them in the eye.
所以看着他们的眼睛我感觉很糟糕。
So basically, I've just given up on looking at people's eyes.
所以基本上，我已经放弃看别人的眼睛了。
I'll just look at their mouth.
我就看他们的嘴。
Juna was sort of resigned to having a bad time of it.
朱娜有点接受了这段糟糕的时光。
But then a couple of years ago, her friend's mom told her, my friend Harriotte is blind, too.
但几年前，她朋友的妈妈告诉她，我的朋友哈里奥特也是盲人。
You guys should meet.
你们应该见面。
Juna was pretty skeptical at first, but liked Harriotte right away.
朱娜一开始很怀疑，但很快就喜欢上了哈里奥特。
They're both musicians, both very talkative.
他们都是音乐家，都很健谈。
But what really stood out to Juna was Harriotte's bountiful love life.
但真正让朱娜印象深刻的是哈里奥特丰富的爱情生活。
She's 78 and has had three husbands and more boyfriends than she can count-- even an affair, which seemed to really impress Juna.
她已经 78 岁了，有过三个丈夫，男朋友多得数不清——甚至还有外遇，这似乎给朱娜留下了深刻的印象。
Juna has always wanted to ask her, what's your secret?
Juna一直想问她，你有什么秘密吗？
What should I be doing differently?
我应该采取什么不同的做法？
We went over to Harriotte's home one December evening to find out.
十二月的一个晚上，我们去了哈里奥特的家去一探究竟。
Her partner, Frank, let us in.
她的搭档弗兰克让我们进去。
Hi, Frank.
嗨，弗兰克。
Diane Wu In the kitchen, Juna tells me one of her favorite stories, the story of how Harriotte and Frank met 20 years ago.
Diane Wu 在厨房里，Juna 给我讲了她最喜欢的故事之一，即 20 年前 Harriotte 和 Frank 相识的故事。
Harriotte and Frank met on a red line train.
哈里奥特和弗兰克在红线火车上相遇。
Harriotte was playing recorder, and Frank heard it and was like, can you teach me that song?
哈里奥特正在吹竖笛，弗兰克听到了，然后说，你能教我那首歌吗？
Right, guys?
对吧，伙计们？
He sat down next to me, and he said, I have my recorder with me.
他在我旁边坐下，说，我带着录音机。
Which is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
Like, Frank, why did you have your recorder with you?
比如，弗兰克，你为什么带着录音机？
I don't know.
我不知道。
That was a certain time in my life.
那是我生命中的某个时刻。
[LAUGHTER] Diane Wu They played together on the train, exchanged numbers, became friends, and five years into that friendship, started dating.
[笑声] 吴黛安 他们在火车上一起玩耍，交换了号码，成为了朋友，建立了五年的友谊，开始约会。
We sit around the kitchen table and get down to business.
我们围坐在厨房的桌子旁，开始谈正事。
Juna starts by explaining how her dating life has gone so far-- no real success, her conclusion that blindness is getting in her way.
朱娜首先解释了她的约会生活到目前为止是如何进行的——没有真正的成功，她的结论是失明阻碍了她。
So in your idea of your life, right, if you think back on your life, have you ever thought to yourself that your vision impacts your dating?
那么，在你对生活的看法中，对吧，如果你回顾一下你的生活，你有没有想过你的愿景会影响你的约会？
Or has it, to you, just not been a related topic?
或者对你来说，这不是一个相关的话题？
Not been a related topic except to share with people all the amazing experiences that I have kinesthetically and otherwise as a blind person.
除了与人们分享我作为盲人在动觉和其他方面所经历的所有令人惊奇的经历之外，这不是一个相关的话题。
Let's say like meeting people in person, right?
比方说，就像亲自与人见面一样，对吗？
One thing that I feel like is very difficult is that I can't make eye contact.
我觉得非常困难的一件事是我无法进行眼神交流。
And I--
而我——
I never could, baby.
我永远做不到，宝贝。
So I don't know what you're talking about.
所以我不知道你在说什么。
[LAUGHS] But Harriotte, all, like, the videos on TikTok about how to meet people at the gym and stuff or whatever, is like, the person makes eye contact with you, and then you smile to let them know that you're available to come-- Harriotte's waving her hands.
[笑]但是 Harriotte，就像 TikTok 上关于如何在健身房认识人之类的视频一样，这个人与你进行眼神交流，然后你微笑着让他们知道你可以来——Harriotte 挥手。
Harriotte, why-- [LAUGHS]
哈里奥特，为什么——[笑]
No, I just bump into them awkwardly and say, where's the treadmill?
不，我只是尴尬地撞到他们，然后说，跑步机在哪里？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
OK, I do that, too, sometimes, but like--
好吧，有时我也会这样做，但是喜欢——
No, but I mean, with panache, you know?
不，但我的意思是，带着华丽，你知道吗？
With ease, you know?
轻松一点，你知道吗？
Like, hey, where's the bathroom?
就像，嘿，浴室在哪里？
Can you walk me over there?
你能带我去那里吗？
Thank you.
谢谢。
I'll get it fixed.
我会把它修好。
I'll do it better next time, you know?
下次我会做得更好，你知道吗？
Whatever.
任何。
But don't you see?
但你没看到吗？
It's like, we're unwilling to be vulnerable.
就像，我们不愿意变得脆弱。
Everybody is.
每个人都是。
Well, not Harriotte.
嗯，不是哈里奥特。
Harriotte I have no problem.
哈里奥特 我没问题。
I'll stand up in the subway and say, hey, anybody getting off at X spot?
我会在地铁里站起来说，嘿，有人在 X 站下车吗？
I have to cross over from the A line to the West 4th Street, whatever.
无论如何，我必须从 A 线穿过西四街。
That's crazy!
太疯狂了！
I have literally been lost for hours because I refused to ask for help.
因为我拒绝寻求帮助，我确实迷失了几个小时。
I'm like, I'm going to wander around until I find where to go to avoid asking for help.
我想，我要到处闲逛，直到找到该去哪里以避免寻求帮助。
So-- now Harriotte's laughing at me.
所以——现在哈里奥特在嘲笑我。
No, not at you.
不，不是针对你。
I'm just laughing at the discomfort and awfulness of it, you know?
我只是嘲笑它的不适和可怕，你知道吗？
Juna's default mode is to be completely competent in everything she does.
朱娜的默认模式是完全胜任她所做的一切。
She hates being underestimated or condescended to.
她讨厌被低估或屈尊。
This is her way of protecting herself from all of that.
这是她保护自己免受这一切侵害的方式。
But talking to Harriotte, she realizes it might come with a downside.
但在与哈里奥特交谈后，她意识到这可能会带来负面影响。
Like when Juna's friend invites her to go salsa dancing, even though she wants to try it, she doesn't.
就像朱娜的朋友邀请她去跳萨尔萨舞一样，尽管她想尝试，但她没有。
She worries the way she dances might look embarrassing.
她担心自己跳舞的方式可能看起来很尴尬。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
Harriotte Do you realize how much you're basing all of your perceptions, at least from where I'm sitting with this, on the sighted world?
哈里奥特：你是否意识到你的所有看法，至少从我现在坐的地方来看，有多少是基于有视力的世界？
But the sighted world is the world, Harriotte.
但有视力的世界就是这个世界，哈里奥特。
Like--
就像——
It is, but it hasn't been a problem.
确实如此，但这并不是问题。
I still feel that my world has total integrity.
我仍然觉得我的世界是完整的。
I feel like my world has total integrity, too, but I feel like-- I don't know.
我觉得我的世界也完全完整，但我觉得——我不知道。
I think the hardest thing in life, whether you're sighted or anything, is a deeper self-acceptance, really.
我认为生活中最困难的事情，无论你是视力正常还是其他什么，确实是更深层次的自我接受。
And that doesn't matter what the hell other people react to or what they think or whatever.
其他人的反应或者他们的想法等等都无关紧要。
Whatever you're sensing from me, do you think that that plays a role into why it might be hard for me to date people?
无论你从我身上感受到什么，你认为这是否是我很难与人约会的原因之一？
Because you have a lens, you have a filter that is constantly on high that says they're not going to get me.
因为你有一个镜头，你有一个始终处于高水平的过滤器，表明他们不会抓住我。
They're going to put me down.
他们要把我打倒。
They're going to ignore me.
他们会忽视我的。
They're going to pity me.
他们会可怜我的。
And if that is sort of in the emotional undercurrent within you, then it'll amplify everything--
如果这是你内心的情感暗流，那么它就会放大一切——
Except yourself.
除了你自己。
It's hard to know what to do with that kind of advice.
很难知道如何处理此类建议。
What do you think that I should do differently?
您认为我应该采取哪些不同的做法？
But you can't say you have to deeply accept yourself because I just don't even know what that means.
但你不能说你必须深深地接受自己，因为我什至不知道这意味着什么。
So it's like--
所以这就像——
OK, that's fine.
好吧，没关系。
Diane Wu Harriotte gives her a concrete thing to try.
黛安·吴·哈里特 (Diane Wu Harriotte) 给了她一个具体的尝试。
Juna's been taking jiu-jitsu classes that she really loves with mostly guys, and she has a crush on one of them.
朱娜一直在参加她非常喜欢的柔术课程，大部分都是男生，她还迷恋其中的一个。
Just see if they want to go out and have coffee or tea.
看看他们是否想出去喝咖啡或茶。
I just don't think people do that anymore, Harriotte.
我只是认为人们不再这样做了，哈里奥特。
What?
什么？
So what?
所以呢？
Maybe they're all waiting.
也许他们都在等待。
I don't want to be the one to do it.
我不想成为这样做的人。
Why can't they do it?
为什么他们做不到？
But Harriotte!
但是哈里奥特！
Harriotte Treat it as friendship.
哈里奥特 把它当作友谊。
It's just a thought.
这只是一个想法。
No, I think you're right.
不，我认为你是对的。
Like, the guy I have a crush on, for example, me and my friends call him my husband.
比如，我暗恋的那个人，我和我的朋友都称他为我的丈夫。
[LAUGHTER] Like, my friend was like, your husband is not in class today.
[笑声] 就像，我的朋友说，你丈夫今天没来上课。
And I'm like, how am I supposed to go talk to my husband?
我想，我该怎么去和我丈夫说话呢？
I'm too scared.
我太害怕了。
I'm scared.
我很害怕。
So last week, Harriotte, I was in class, and my jiu-jitsu husband usually will ask me to spar once in class.
所以上周，Harriotte，我在上课，我的柔术丈夫通常会要求我在课堂上打一次拳。
And this time, we only had one spar.
而这一次，我们只有一根晶石。
Long story short, we didn't get to spar.
长话短说，我们没有打架。
And I'd only come to class to see my jiu-jitsu husband.
我来上课只是为了见我的柔术丈夫。
And so I saw him on the mat, right?
所以我在垫子上看到了他，对吗？
And I was like, I'll go ask him.
我当时想，我去问他。
But I was scared.
但我很害怕。
But I was like, I'll go ask him because he always asks me.
但我想，我会去问他，因为他总是问我。
I'll go ask him.
我去问问他。
And I went to go ask him.
我就去问他。
And he's like a very shy, introverted person.
他就像一个非常害羞、内向的人。
And I asked him.
我问他。
He's like, oh, um, yeah.
他就像，哦，嗯，是的。
Actually, I was stretching because I was going to leave, but yeah, I guess we can spar.
事实上，我在伸展身体，因为我要离开，但是，是的，我想我们可以切磋。
Yeah.
是的。
And I was like, oh, no, it's OK.
我当时想，哦，不，没关系。
We can do it next time.
我们下次可以做。
Yeah, OK.
是的，好的。
And I ran back to the lockers, and he came up to me.
我跑回储物柜，他向我走来。
He was like, no, no, no, let's do it.
他说，不，不，不，我们就这么做吧。
And I was like, no, no, no, it's OK.
我当时想，不，不，不，没关系。
We can do it another time.
我们可以改天再做。
He was like, no, let's spar.
他说，不，我们来打架吧。
Anyways, it took him, like, three different times to be like, no, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
不管怎样，他花了三次不同的时间才说，不，我们开始吧，我们开始吧，我们开始吧。
And then we did.
然后我们就这么做了。
And I was like, I'm never talking to him again.
我当时想，我再也不会和他说话了。
Like, he can talk to me if he wants, but I am never speaking to him again in class because I was so embarrassed.
就像，如果他愿意的话，他可以和我说话，但我再也不会在课堂上和他说话了，因为我很尴尬。
The fact that he asked you the three times is already not saying I want to be your husband, but it is saying, I would like to do that.
他问了你三遍，已经不是说我想当你的丈夫了，而是说，我愿意这么做。
So it's authentic.
所以是正宗的。
I think he's asking from, just my sense about it, from a very authentic place.
我认为他是从一个非常真实的地方问的，只是我的感觉。
And so build on it.
以此为基础。
Just get to know him.
就去认识他吧。
When you finish sparring, you could say, if you would like to go to brunch sometime, just the two of us after jiu-jitsu, let me know.
当你结束陪练时，你可以说，如果你想找个时间去吃早午餐，就我们两个人练完柔术，请告诉我。
[SIGHS] OK.
[叹气]好吧。
Diane Wu So it's been three weeks since you went and talked to Harriotte, and I'm calling to see, are there any updates?
黛安·吴（Diane Wu）：自从你去和 Harriotte 交谈以来已经三周了，我打电话来看看有什么最新消息吗？
[LAUGHS] Oh, my god, I feel like I'm on one of those dating shows.
[笑]哦，天哪，我感觉自己好像在参加一场约会节目。
Anyways, so I went the first time after talking to Harriotte, and I was like, you know what?
不管怎样，我在和哈里奥特交谈后第一次去了，我当时想，你知道吗？
Let me treat this person the same way I treat everybody else in this class and just be normal and be his friend.
让我像对待班上其他人一样对待这个人，保持正常并成为他的朋友。
And so I started talking to him, and it was like the worst conversation I've ever had in my entire life, not because of me.
所以我开始和他说话，这就像我一生中经历过的最糟糕的谈话，而不是因为我。
It was like talking to a brick wall, you guys.
你们，这就像对着一堵砖墙说话。
It was like--
就像——
Huh.
呵呵。
Juna --so terrible.
朱娜——太可怕了。
And I went to the dog park the next day, and I was like, you guys, I think he has literally no personality.
第二天我去了狗公园，我想，你们这些家伙，我认为他真的没有个性。
And they were like, then why do you like him?
他们说，那你为什么喜欢他？
And I said, I literally think it's just because of his arms.
我说，我确实认为这只是因为他的手臂。
And I have been so stupid.
而我却一直如此愚蠢。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
A very wise person once tweeted, "A crush is just a lack of information," though, for Juna, getting that information-- progress.
一位非常聪明的人曾经发推文说，“迷恋只是缺乏信息”，但对朱娜来说，获得这些信息——进步。
Juna, determined to follow Harriotte's instructions, actually continued befriending the guy, who ended up being much more fun to talk to later.
朱娜决心遵循哈里奥特的指示，实际上继续与这个人成为朋友，后来与他交谈变得更加有趣。
She still seems a long way from ever making the first move, but now, at least, she knows it's an option.
她似乎距离迈出第一步还有很长的路要走，但现在，至少她知道这是一个选择。
Well, our program today was produced by Tobin Low and edited by Ira Glass.
嗯，我们今天的节目由托宾·洛 (Tobin Low) 制作，艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 编辑。
The people who put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Angela Gervasi, Cassie Howley, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, and Christopher Swetala.
今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Angela Gervasi、Cassie Howley、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Anthony Roman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan 和 Christopher Swetala。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Susanna Fogel, Susan Burton, Emily Nonko at Empowerment Avenue, David P.
今天特别感谢 Empowerment Avenue 的 Susanna Fogel、Susan Burton、Emily Nonko、David P.
O'Neil, Thomas Reid, Evan Ferrante, Derrick Campana, Dashka Slater, Jessica Peters.
奥尼尔、托马斯·里德、埃文·费兰特、德里克·坎帕纳、达什卡·斯莱特、杰西卡·彼得斯。
And thanks to all the people who spoke to us about their breakups caused by a comedian.
感谢所有向我们讲述他们因喜剧演员而分手的人。
One other quick note, we checked the police report about that car accident that Miles told me about at the beginning of the show involving, he said, a Kia Soul.
另一件简单的说明是，我们检查了关于迈尔斯在节目开始时告诉我的那起车祸的警方报告，他说涉及一辆起亚秀尔。
Sorry, Miles.
对不起，迈尔斯。
Turns out it was not a Kia Soul.
事实证明这不是起亚秀尔。
The police report lists it as a Chevy.
警方报告将其列为雪佛兰。
I don't know make and model.
我不知道品牌和型号。
We're going to try to find out for you.
我们将尽力为您找出答案。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
If you become a This American Life Partner, you'll get bonus content, ad-free listening, and more.
如果您成为“This American Life”合作伙伴，您将获得奖励内容、无广告收听等。
In our newest bonus episode, Ira plays two stories that never aired on the show, not because they're bad, but for more interesting reasons, which he explains.
在我们最新的奖励剧集中，艾拉播放了两个从未在节目中播出的故事，不是因为它们不好，而是出于更有趣的原因，他解释道。
To hear it, go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
如需收听，请访问 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
That link is also in the show notes.
该链接也在节目注释中。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Special thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地特别感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He's seen Elon Musk's Roman salute and Steve Bannon's, and just has one question--
他看过埃隆·马斯克的罗马礼和史蒂夫·班农的罗马礼，只有一个问题——
Are those Nazis real Nazis?
那些纳粹分子是真正的纳粹分子吗？
David Kestenbaum I'm David Kestenbaum.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 我是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。