854: Ten Things I Don't Want To Hate About You - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #854 | February 21, 2025 854: Ten Things I Don't Want To Hate About You Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 854 集 | 2025 年 2 月 21 日 854：我不想讨厌你的十件事 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass I think we all have people in our lives who we love, but there's no talking to them.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 我想我们的生活中都有我们所爱的人，但我们无法与他们交谈。
They have their way of seeing things or doing things, and it's hard to take.
他们有自己看待事物或做事的方式，而且很难接受。
And no matter how you try to talk it out, it goes nowhere.
而且无论你如何试图说出来，都是没有结果的。
It doesn't get solved, even if they also want things to change.
即使他们也希望事情发生改变，问题也没有得到解决。
We're devoting our entire show today to a story like that from Zach Mack, who's a reporter.
我们今天的整个节目都致力于讲述扎克·麦克（Zach Mack）的故事，他是一名记者。
And the story is about him and his dad and how they both wanted to mend a rift that had grown between them that had lasted for years, but they couldn't figure out how until Zach's dad offered a very surprising way out.
这个故事是关于他和他的父亲，以及他们如何想要弥合他们之间持续多年的裂痕，但他们不知道如何解决，直到扎克的父亲提供了一个非常令人惊讶的出路。
That's going to be our whole show today-- his dad's unusual solution and how it played out.
这就是我们今天的全部内容——他父亲的不同寻常的解决方案以及它的结果。
That's all I'm going to say for now.
我现在要说的就是这些。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And with that, I turn things over to Zach.
说完，我把事情交给扎克。
This all started about a year ago.
这一切都始于大约一年前。
My father called and left me this message.
我父亲打电话给我留下了这条信息。
Hey, Zach.
嘿，扎克。
Dad again.
又是爸爸。
Good conversation last week-- last night.
上周——昨晚，谈话很愉快。
Hey, I didn't remember to tell you this because I was kind of tired.
嘿，我没记得告诉你这个，因为我有点累了。
But they're going to shut us down again.
但他们会再次关闭我们。
And it's going to be a worse shutdown than 2020 because of this EMP, that all the supply lines are going to be disrupted.
由于该电磁脉冲，这将是比 2020 年更严重的停工，所有供应线都将被中断。
So you really want to store up two months' worth of food and water because they probably won't be able to pump water throughout the city, because that's all controlled by computers and electronics.
所以你真的想储存两个月的食物和水，因为他们可能无法在整个城市抽水，因为这一切都是由计算机和电子设备控制的。
And the EMP is going to shut down everything electronic.
电磁脉冲将关闭所有电子设备。
My dad's talking about something called an ElectroMagnetic Pulse, EMP for short, which I only know about because it's what George Clooney uses in the movie Ocean's Eleven to pull off the casino heist.
我爸爸正在谈论一种叫做电磁脉冲（ElectroMagnetic Pulse）的东西，简称 EMP，我之所以知道它，是因为乔治·克鲁尼（George Clooney）在电影《十一罗汉》中用它来完成赌场抢劫。
What's a pinch?
什么是捏？
Basher A pinch is a device which creates like a cardiac arrest for any broadband electrical circuitry-- an electromagnetic pulse which shuts down any power source within its blast radius.
Basher A Pinch 是一种能够像任何宽带电路的心脏骤停一样产生电磁脉冲的装置，可以关闭其爆炸半径内的任何电源。
You should buy enough water.
你应该买足够的水。
Zach Mack I can't remember a single other time Dad left me a message expressing a safety concern, but he was really convinced this was going to happen.
扎克·麦克：我不记得爸爸曾给我留言表达过安全担忧，但他确实确信这将会发生。
At one point, he even did a little math for how much water I would need to survive.
有一次，他甚至计算了我生存需要多少水。
So I would buy 60 times 10, which is 600 ounces.
所以我会购买 60 乘以 10，即 600 盎司。
I know.
我知道。
I know it sounds like conspiracy theory, but they're going to do this.
我知道这听起来像阴谋论，但他们会这么做的。
This is what they're planning.
这就是他们的计划。
And I just want to have you be prepared.
我只是想让你做好准备。
OK?
好的？
OK, so just a little background-- I wouldn't describe my father as a paranoid person.
好吧，简单介绍一下背景——我不会把我的父亲描述为一个偏执狂。
I wouldn't even call him an anxious person.
我什至不会称他为焦虑的人。
He's actually an optimist and usually prefers to keep things light, so a lot of dad jokes.
他实际上是一个乐观主义者，通常喜欢让事情保持轻松，所以有很多爸爸笑话。
What else?
还有什么？
He's held down the same job forever.
他永远担任同样的工作。
He has friends-- not close ones, but there's dudes he goes skiing and sailing with.
他有朋友——不是亲密的朋友，但有一些朋友和他一起去滑雪和航海。
When I was growing up, Dad was kind of in his own world.
在我成长的过程中，爸爸总是沉浸在自己的世界里。
Mom was always the more involved parent, the one who knew all my friends and whatever was going on with me.
妈妈总是最投入的父母，她了解我所有的朋友以及我发生的一切。
Dad and I have never been particularly close.
我和爸爸从来没有特别亲密过。
Typically, when I hear from him on the phone, it's during an Ohio State football game.
通常，当我在电话中接到他的电话时，是在俄亥俄州立大学橄榄球比赛期间。
We both love the Buckeyes, so during a game, he'll call me, like, five or six times, but not much beyond games, though.
我们都喜欢七叶树队，所以在比赛期间，他会给我打电话，大概五六次，但除了比赛之外就不打太多电话了。
Ohio State football is the one thing we can agree on.
俄亥俄州立大学橄榄球是我们可以达成一致的一件事。
The thing we can't seem to agree on is reality.
我们似乎无法达成共识的是现实。
Like so many people, Dad's gotten swept up in conspiracies.
和很多人一样，爸爸也卷入了阴谋之中。
Lately, he's been talking about chemtrails, that the government can control the weather, that January 6 was staged by what he calls the "deep state."
最近，他一直在谈论化学凝结尾，政府可以控制天气，1 月 6 日是由他所谓的“深层政府”策划的。
As he's gotten more extreme in the last few years, I've seen my mom and sister retract and shut down around him.
随着他在过去几年变得更加极端，我看到我的妈妈和姐姐在他身边退缩和封闭。
I'm typically the one who challenges Dad on this stuff.
我通常是在这件事上挑战爸爸的人。
Because I'm a reporter, I can't resist taking the bait.
因为我是一名记者，所以我无法抗拒上当。
It's called denying us freedom of speech.
这就是所谓的剥夺我们的言论自由。
No, no. Dad It's called denying us freedom of speech.
不，不。爸爸 这就是剥夺我们的言论自由。
It's misinformation.
这是错误信息。
Dad No. Who gets the right to label it misinformation?
爸爸不。谁有权利将其标记为错误信息？
Of course, it never goes anywhere, until a year ago.
当然，它永远不会去任何地方，直到一年前。
After a family blowout over the holidays that was so bad, my sister and I left early, I decided to confront my father.
假期期间，家庭发生了一场严重的争吵，我和姐姐提前离开，我决定与父亲对质。
I could see how his beliefs were starting to strain the family, and I worried that pretty soon, there may be no coming back for him.
我可以看到他的信仰开始给这个家庭带来压力，我担心很快他就再也回不来了。
I told him I thought he was being radicalized online and pleaded with him to hear me.
我告诉他我认为他在网上变得激进，并恳求他听我说。
As always, he didn't agree.
一如既往，他没有同意。
But what he did next surprised me.
但他接下来的举动让我大吃一惊。
Dad texted me a photo of a sheet of paper where, in his barely legible cursive, he had written out a list of 10 predictions, 10 things that he was positive would all take place sometime in 2024, assuring me that when all of these things happened, I would see once and for all that he was right.
爸爸给我发了一张纸的照片，他用几乎难以辨认的草书写下了 10 个预测的清单，他确信 10 件事都将在 2024 年的某个时候发生，向我保证，当所有这些事情发生时，我会一劳永逸地证明他是对的。
At the bottom of the page was a challenge to a bet for $10,000.
页面底部是 10,000 美元的挑战。
And let me just say, Dad and I are not big gamblers, nor are we rich.
我只想说，我和爸爸都不是大赌徒，也不是富有的人。
10k is easily more money than either of us has ever wagered.
10k 比我们任何一个人下注的钱都多。
Looking over the list, I was a combination of surprised, horrified, and also, it was a little hard to take seriously.
看着这份名单，我的心情是惊讶、惊恐，还有点难以认真对待。
I immediately called him up to discuss the terms of the bet.
我立即打电话给他讨论赌注的条款。
Do you have the list in front of you?
你面前有这份清单吗？
Because you--
因为你——
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
Zach Mack Can you walk me through the 1 through 10?
Zach Mack 你能帮我介绍一下 1 到 10 吗？
I just want to add-- each one, I'll probably have a couple clarifying questions.
我只是想补充一点——对于每一个问题，我可能都会有几个需要澄清的问题。
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Zach Mack Keep in mind, this call took place back in January 2024.
Zach Mack 请记住，这次通话发生在 2024 年 1 月。
Number one, Obama will be found guilty of treason in 2024.
第一，奥巴马将于 2024 年被判犯有叛国罪。
Correct.
正确。
Zach Mack OK.
扎克·麦克 好的。
And then number two?
那么第二个呢？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Biden will be found guilty of treason in 2024.
拜登将于 2024 年被判犯有叛国罪。
For selling all those secrets that he had in the back of his Corvette.
因为他出卖了他在克尔维特车后面的所有秘密。
I don't know if that's a joke.
我不知道这是不是一个玩笑。
I'm not sure.
我不知道。
It's partially a joke, but it's also real.
这部分是个玩笑，但也是真实的。
I mean, it could be--
我的意思是，这可能是——
It went on like this, all political.
事情就这样继续下去，全是政治性的。
Dad's other predictions were that Nancy Pelosi would also be convicted of treason.
爸爸的其他预测是南希·佩洛西也会被判叛国罪。
Same for Bill and Hillary Clinton, who would go down for murder as well.
比尔·克林顿和希拉里·克林顿也是如此，他们也会因谋杀而被判死刑。
That Trump would be reinstated without an election and cleared of all charges.
特朗普将在不举行选举的情况下复职，并洗清所有指控。
That Biden would be removed from office.
拜登将被免职。
Same for both the governor and mayor of New York.
纽约州州长和市长也是如此。
And as a New York City resident, I didn't hate that last one.
作为一名纽约市居民，我并不讨厌最后一个。
That one, I'm actually kind of hopeful we get that one because I don't really love Eric Adams.
那个，我实际上有点希望我们能得到那个，因为我不太喜欢埃里克·亚当斯。
He's kind of an idiot.
他是个白痴。
So I'm with you on that one.
所以我同意你的观点。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
Yep, he's a total idiot.
是的，他就是个十足的白痴。
And I'm impressed that you see that.
你看到这一点给我留下了深刻的印象。
So, good.
超好的。
[CHUCKLES] Dad One we can both cheer for.
[咯咯笑]爸爸，我们都可以为之欢呼的爸爸。
Eventually, we landed on his final prediction for 2024, his boldest one.
最终，我们得出了他对 2024 年的最终预测，也是他最大胆的预测。
Number 10-- I threw this in because I thought you'd be excited about it.
第 10 条——我把这个放进去是因为我认为你会对此感到兴奋。
Yeah, it's an exciting one.
是的，这是一件令人兴奋的事情。
It's probably the most exciting one.
这可能是最令人兴奋的一件事。
The US will come under martial law in 2024 because of mass rioting and chaos.
由于大规模骚乱和混乱，美国将于2024年实施戒严。
So the military will have to step in.
因此，军方必须介入。
For the record, I was never actually excited about the possibility of this happening.
根据记录，我从未真正对发生这种情况的可能性感到兴奋。
Do you think this will be happening all over the country, only in certain parts?
您认为这种情况会在全国范围内发生，仅在某些地区发生吗？
Well, the whole United States will come under martial law.
好吧，整个美国都将实行戒严。
And the biggest cities will be targeted-- New York, unfortunately, Washington DC, the Bay Area.
最大的城市将成为目标——不幸的是纽约、华盛顿特区和湾区。
OK.
好的。
You seem pretty confident about that.
看来你对此很有信心。
I am 100% confident.
我有100%的信心。
Zach Mack Because this is a pretty huge shake-up.
扎克·麦克因为这是一次相当大的改组。
Yeah.
是的。
Zach Mack I would say, our country hasn't seen anything like this since the Civil War, probably.
扎克·麦克：我想说，自内战以来，我们的国家可能还没有遇到过这样的事情。
Well, not even in the Civil War.
好吧，即使在内战中也没有。
This is going to be the biggest shake-up to ever hit the United States of America and the world at large.
这将是美国乃至全世界有史以来最大的一次变革。
I mean, I think the way you've laid it out here, there'll be a pretty clear case of, like, who's right and who's wrong.
我的意思是，我认为按照你在这里提出的方式，会有一个非常清楚的案例，比如谁是对的，谁是错的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
I think it will be very black and white.
我认为这将是非常黑白分明的。
And if you are wrong-- Dad Then you're $10,000 richer.
如果你错了——爸爸 那么你就多了 10,000 美元。
[CHUCKLES] Yeah, but look, this isn't just about the money, right?
[笑]是的，但是你看，这不仅仅是钱的问题，对吧？
I would like to make some positive strides for our family.
我想为我们的家庭取得一些积极的进步。
Well, I think that once you see that I haven't been duped by AI and social media and the algorithms, I think you will gain a lot more respect for who I am and how I think and how I've come to believe.
好吧，我认为，一旦你看到我没有被人工智能、社交媒体和算法欺骗，我想你会对我是谁、我的想法和我的信仰获得更多的尊重。
The other thing I want to have you say after each one of these--
我想让你在每一个之后说的另一件事——
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Dad --too, is that, wow, Dad, you were right, and I was wrong.
爸爸——也是这样，哇，爸爸，你是对的，而我错了。
Same goes for you then.
那么你也一样。
Dad OK.
爸爸好吧。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
All right.
好的。
Zach Mack And so our strange bet was on.
扎克·麦克 我们奇怪的赌注就这样开始了。
I saw Dad's challenge as an opening.
我把爸爸的挑战视为一个机会。
Instead of just arguing until the end of time, we were actually going to settle this.
我们不只是争论到最后，而是要解决这个问题。
And now we had a deadline-- New Year's 2025.
现在我们有一个最后期限——2025 年新年。
The moment I saw his proposal, I knew I had him beat.
当我看到他的提议时，我知道我打败了他。
And for the very first time, he'd have to admit he was wrong.
这是他第一次不得不承认自己错了。
All I had to do was wait 12 months, and once he decisively lost, I figured he'd be more open to my version of the truth, and maybe I could pull him back to reality a bit.
我所要做的就是等待 12 个月，一旦他果断失败，我想他会对我的真相更加开放，也许我可以把他拉回现实一点。
And the timing for the bet couldn't be better because his beliefs were starting to tear our family apart.
这次打赌的时机再好不过了，因为他的信仰开始分裂我们的家庭。
Coming up, Zach calls his mom, who has some news of her own.
到了这里，扎克打电话给他的妈妈，她也有一些消息。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
This American Life.
这美国生活。
Zach Mack picks up his story about his year-long bet with his dad.
扎克·麦克讲述了他与父亲长达一年的打赌的故事。
Not long after making the bet, I called my mom.
下注后不久，我给妈妈打电话。
My parents have been married for 40 years.
我的父母结婚已有 40 年了。
They met in their 20s in Chicago, fell in love, and moved to California, where they eventually had my sister and I.
他们 20 多岁时在芝加哥相识，相爱，然后搬到了加利福尼亚，最终在那里有了我和我的妹妹。
We grew up in the San Francisco Bay area, a pretty liberal place, which worked for my mom because she's a pretty liberal Jewish woman.
我们在旧金山湾区长大，这是一个相当自由的地方，这对我妈妈来说很有效，因为她是一个非常自由的犹太女性。
Dad has always been the odd man out, the lone Christian conservative, though growing up he was much quieter about his beliefs.
父亲一直是个奇怪的人，是孤独的基督教保守派，尽管在成长过程中他对自己的信仰要安静得多。
And when my parents met, neither of them were religious.
当我的父母见面时，他们都没有宗教信仰。
But Dad got back into it when I was young.
但当我还小的时候，爸爸又重新开始了。
Now he's very into it.
现在他非常投入。
That's been difficult for my parents for decades.
几十年来，这对我的父母来说是很困难的。
But now, with the conspiracy stuff emerging, it's been really hard on my mom.
但现在，随着阴谋的出现，我妈妈真的很难受。
It's getting pretty crazy, and I don't even know half of it.
事情变得非常疯狂，我什至都不知道其中的一半。
We have two generators in the house.
我们家里有两台发电机。
There are now eight flats of water in the garage that he bought at Costco and some kind of fancy water filter system that was a couple hundred dollars.
现在车库里有八个单位的水，是他在好市多买的，还有一些花几百美元的奇特的水过滤系统。
He's stockpiling weird food.
他正在储存奇怪的食物。
What kind of food?
什么样的食物？
Mom 12 cans of canned chicken.
妈妈12罐鸡肉罐头。
[CHUCKLES] OK.
[轻笑]好的。
Mom And I'm like, I have never eaten canned chicken.
妈妈我想，我从来没有吃过鸡肉罐头。
You have never eaten canned chicken.
你肯定没吃过鸡肉罐头。
Why is there canned chicken?
为什么会有鸡肉罐头？
I feel like returning it all this week while he's not home.
我想在他不在家的时候把它全部归还。
And he moved some money without my permission.
他未经我的允许就转移了一些钱。
How did he do that?
他是怎么做到的？
He didn't need your sign-off?
他不需要你签字吗？
No, because it's a joint account.
不可以，因为是联名账户。
And he withdrew money from a joint account without telling me and made a purchase he knew I would never approve.
他在没有告诉我的情况下从联名账户中提取了资金，并进行了一项他知道我永远不会批准的购买。
What was it?
那是什么？
Mom He bought a precious metal.
何妈妈买了贵金属。
Because Dad's worried the banks are going to collapse, he wants to move big chunks of their money into things like platinum and silver.
因为爸爸担心银行会倒闭，所以他想将大部分资金转移到铂金和白银等商品上。
Why is he so unwilling to listen to everyone around him?
为什么他这么不愿意听周围所有人的意见？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I wish I knew because then I could crack it.
我希望我知道，因为那样我就能破解它。
I don't know how to pull him back.
我不知道怎么把他拉回来。
I have been very clear that I'm not sure how much more I can take.
我已经非常明确地表示，我不确定自己还能承受多少。
And--
还有——
Have you been clear with him about that?
你跟他说清楚了吗？
Yeah, and I've even said, I'm considering leaving, ending the marriage.
是的，我什至说过，我正在考虑离开，结束婚姻。
You said that to him?
你对他这么说？
Mom Yeah.
妈妈 是啊。
Which is very hard for me to say, because I'm 69.
这对我来说很难说，因为我已经 69 岁了。
I'm about to retire.
我快要退休了。
Yeah.
是的。
Mom Not necessarily the life I had planned for myself, to be alone.
妈妈 这不一定是我为自己规划的生活，一个人的生活。
But what kind of life do I have now?
但我现在过着怎样的生活呢？
Mom was initially irritated by the bet because Dad didn't run it by her first, which happens a lot, but the idea of a deadline, that was starting to make sense to her.
妈妈最初对这个赌注很恼火，因为爸爸没有先让她下注，这种情况经常发生，但最后期限的想法对她来说开始有意义。
I need an endpoint.
我需要一个端点。
And so the endpoint is December 31.
所以终点是 12 月 31 日。
When January 1 comes around, things have to change.
当 1 月 1 日到来时，事情必须改变。
I'm only going to put up-- I can barely put up with it now, and I can't put up with it after that.
我只会忍受——现在我几乎不能忍受，以后我也不能忍受。
Later, I called my sister Kira about the bet.
后来，我打电话给我姐姐基拉（Kira）谈论这个赌注。
Unfortunately, she's been having her own conflict with Dad, also about his beliefs.
不幸的是，她与父亲之间也存在着冲突，也涉及到他的信仰。
Two years ago, Kira came out to him.
两年前，基拉向他出柜。
My mom and I had known for years, but Kira was always afraid to tell Dad because she thought he'd disapprove.
我和妈妈已经知道很多年了，但基拉总是不敢告诉爸爸，因为她认为他会不同意。
It didn't go well.
进展并不顺利。
He said he'd always love my sister, but he thought she was choosing to be gay, and he didn't agree with that choice.
他说他永远爱我妹妹，但他认为她选择成为同性恋，他不同意这个选择。
I think the hardest part is that he looked at me and told me that I was wrong about myself, and that he was right.
我认为最难的部分是他看着我并告诉我我对自己的看法是错误的，而他是对的。
And I don't understand how he could know that.
我不明白他怎么知道这一点。
Kira and I are close.
基拉和我关系很亲密。
And when I told her about the bet, she liked the idea of forcing Dad to confront the reality that some of his beliefs are likely wrong.
当我告诉她这个赌注时，她喜欢强迫爸爸面对现实，即他的一些信念可能是错误的。
But we weren't sure if that helped her situation either way.
但我们不确定这是否对她的情况有帮助。
So, like, let's say these things don't come true, and he's willing to say, like, I was wrong about these things, I don't feel like that would affect his beliefs around me.
所以，假设这些事情没有实现，他愿意说，我在这些事情上错了，我不觉得这会影响他对我周围的信念。
Like even if he's right about everything else, I'm probably still going to be gay after that.
就像即使他在其他方面都是对的，在那之后我可能仍然会是同性恋。
So Dad and I had a year.
就这样，我和爸爸度过了一年的时光。
January came and went, and neither of us put any points on the board with the bet.
一月来了又去，我们俩都没有在赌盘上下注。
Then in February, Dad caught a small break with Mayor Adams.
然后在二月份，爸爸与亚当斯市长有了短暂的休息。
He had been under investigation for months, and things were heating up.
他已经接受调查几个月了，事情正在升温。
The FBI raided one of his advisors, and someone else pled guilty to conspiracy charges.
联邦调查局突袭了他的一名顾问，其他人也承认了共谋指控。
It seemed like Dad could actually win that one.
看来爸爸真的能赢那一场。
Then in March, the New York governor sent the National Guard into the subway, which, if you squint, could look like the pretense to martial law.
然后在三月份，纽约州州长派国民警卫队进入地铁，如果你仔细观察，这看起来就像是在假装戒严。
While we waited for the other predictions to come true or not, I tried to make the most of the time.
当我们等待其他预测是否成真时，我试图充分利用这段时间。
I found myself thinking back to something Dad said to me at the end of an argument once a few years back.
我发现自己回想起几年前爸爸在一次争吵结束时对我说的话。
He said, well, you don't really know me.
他说，好吧，你并不真正了解我。
And I wondered if he might be right, that maybe I didn't really know him.
我想知道他是否是对的，也许我并不真正了解他。
And if I had any hope of changing his mind or even nudging the trajectory of his beliefs, I would need to understand my father better.
如果我希望改变他的想法，甚至推动他的信仰轨迹，我就需要更好地了解我的父亲。
So I decided to make a project of it.
所以我决定做一个项目。
One question I still had was how he'd even gotten here, though, looking back, there were signs.
我仍然有一个问题是他是怎么来到这里的，不过回想起来，还是有迹象的。
I remember my mom telling me about how when I was a child, Dad didn't want me to get vaccinated.
我记得妈妈告诉我，当我还是个孩子的时候，爸爸不希望我接种疫苗。
Mom wasn't having it, so I ended up getting all my shots.
妈妈不同意，所以我最终得到了所有的机会。
But I never really understood where Dad's hangups came from.
但我一直不明白爸爸的困扰从何而来。
But now that we had some time to kill, I could ask him.
但现在我们有一些时间可以消磨，我可以问他。
I know, throughout my lifetime, you have been distrusting of vaccines.
我知道，在我的一生中，您一直不信任疫苗。
Is that fair to say?
这么说公平吗？
Well, the seed was planted, actually, before I went to school.
事实上，这个种子是在我上学之前就种下的。
Back in the '60s, Dad was about to enter elementary school in Ohio, and there was a new law requiring vaccines.
早在 60 年代，爸爸即将进入俄亥俄州小学，当时有一项新法律要求接种疫苗。
Now, remember, Grandpa, my dad, was a chiropractor.
现在，请记住，爷爷，我的父亲，是一名脊椎按摩师。
And so he believed in natural immunity and the body's ability to heal itself.
因此，他相信自然免疫力和身体的自愈能力。
And so he was an anti-vaxxer.
所以他是一个反疫苗者。
OK.
好的。
Dad And I mean, we didn't call him that back then, but it's the same difference.
爸爸，我的意思是，我们当时并没有这么称呼他，但这是同样的区别。
And I just wanted to go to school, and I kept telling my dad and my mom, hey, it's OK, you know?
我只是想上学，我一直告诉我爸爸和妈妈，嘿，没关系，你知道吗？
I'm not afraid of the vaccination.
我不怕打疫苗。
I'm willing to go.
我愿意去。
And I just want to go to school.
我只想去学校。
So I was not able to go to kindergarten because we couldn't find a school that would accept me without a vaccination.
所以我无法去幼儿园，因为我们找不到一所学校可以接受没有接种疫苗的我。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
So you didn't go to kindergarten?
那你没去幼儿园吗？
Well, do you think your dad was-- I don't know.
好吧，你认为你的父亲是——我不知道。
How would you describe him?
你会如何形容他？
Would you describe him as stubborn?
你会形容他很固执吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Stubborn, very opinionated, hard-headed at times.
固执，非常固执己见，有时头脑很顽固。
Dad was one of six children.
爸爸是六个孩子之一。
The family was supported primarily by my grandpa, who had a small chiropractic business.
这个家庭主要由我的祖父养活，他经营着一家小型脊椎按摩疗法公司。
That is, until the Ohio State Medical Board cracked down on him.
也就是说，直到俄亥俄州医学委员会对他进行了镇压。
And so they literally threw my dad in jail for a couple of days--
所以他们真的把我父亲关进监狱几天了——
Wow.
哇。
Dad --for practicing without a license.
爸爸——无证执业。
The way Dad tells it, after my grandfather's business dissolved, he was never able to recover.
据爸爸说，祖父的生意解散后，他再也无法恢复元气。
He became so depressed that he literally couldn't get out of bed for, like, six months.
他变得非常沮丧，以至于六个月都无法起床。
And he was never the same man.
他不再是同一个人了。
That literally broke him.
这确实让他崩溃了。
Wow.
哇。
And how old were you when this happened?
这件事发生时你多大了？
One of the things I remember most about my grandfather is how tall and thin he was, and how, one time when he came to visit us, his body had just completely changed.
关于祖父，我印象最深的一件事就是他又高又瘦，有一次他来看望我们时，他的身体完全改变了。
He had suddenly gained over 100 pounds in a very short amount of time.
他在很短的时间内突然体重增加了100多磅。
He was going through some mental health issues that the family never fully understood, and it was affecting his weight and his ability to sleep.
他正在经历一些家人从未完全理解的心理健康问题，这影响了他的体重和睡眠能力。
He wouldn't really sleep during the night, which meant that throughout the day, he would constantly fall asleep.
晚上他根本就睡不着，这意味着一整天他都会不断地睡着。
He'd be in the middle of a conversation sometimes, or even at dinner, and he'd just start snoring.
有时他正在谈话，甚至在吃晚饭时，他就会开始打鼾。
Minutes later, he'd abruptly wake up and carry on as if nothing happened.
几分钟后，他突然醒来，继续装作什么都没发生过一样。
This also began to happen while he was driving.
这也是在他开车时开始发生的。
My grandpa got into a number of car accidents.
我的爷爷遭遇过多次车祸。
He totaled several cars and nearly killed my grandmother.
他撞坏了几辆车，差点杀了我的祖母。
He refused to stop driving and even went to a neighboring state to get a driver's license after his was taken away.
他拒绝停止驾驶，甚至在驾驶执照被拿走后前往邻州领取驾驶执照。
He refused to admit anything was wrong.
他拒绝承认有任何问题。
The family tried to talk to him.
家人试图与他交谈。
So did my father several times.
我父亲也有好几次这样。
And when that didn't work-- and I'd never heard this part of the story before-- Dad tried something else.
当这不起作用时——我以前从未听说过这部分故事——爸爸尝试了其他方法。
I wrote him a long letter.
我给他写了一封长信。
I wrote him, like, a two or three-page letter and mailed it to him, because I wanted him to be able to read the whole letter so I could finish what I really wanted to say to him without interruption.
我给他写了一封两三页的信，然后邮寄给他，因为我希望他能够阅读整封信，这样我就可以不间断地完成我真正想对他说的话。
And I said, Dad, I love you.
我说，爸爸，我爱你。
I want the best for you.
我想给你最好的。
I'm not trying to say anything horrible or damaging or critical about you, but your whole family is concerned about you.
我并不是想对你说任何可怕的、伤害性的或批评的话，但你的整个家庭都很担心你。
Can't you see this?
你看不到这个吗？
Can't you recognize that we all would like to see you live to a ripe old age?
难道你不知道我们都希望看到你活到晚年吗？
Because, I said, if you continue on this path, I don't know when you're going to die, but I know you're going to die.
因为，我说，如果你继续走这条路，我不知道你什么时候会死，但我知道你会死。
So.
所以。
Not long after this-- I was 10 years old at the time-- my parents called my sister and me into the kitchen to tell us something.
不久之后——当时我10岁——我的父母把我和妹妹叫到厨房告诉我们一些事情。
But before they said anything, I already knew.
但在他们说什么之前，我就已经知道了。
My grandfather was dead.
我的祖父死了。
His vehicle veered off the road and flipped over.
他的车偏离道路并翻倒了。
When I think about my grandfather, I think about how what caused his death may have been stubbornness, a refusal to listen to those around him.
当我想起我的祖父时，我想到导致他死亡的原因可能是固执，拒绝倾听周围人的意见。
He was 68 years old, the same age my father was when he proposed our bet.
他已经 68 岁了，和我父亲提出我们打赌时的年龄一样。
As the year pressed on, we continued discussing Dad's life and the things he'd come to believe.
随着时间的推移，我们继续讨论父亲的生活和他逐渐相信的事情。
Turns out, a lot of his predictions were coming from a single source online.
事实证明，他的很多预测都来自在线的单一来源。
And something you should know about my father is that he really struggles with technology.
关于我父亲，你应该了解的是，他确实在技术方面很挣扎。
He can barely navigate the internet.
他几乎无法浏览互联网。
He can't even figure out how to access his own email account from his laptop.
他甚至不知道如何从笔记本电脑访问自己的电子邮件帐户。
Around 2019, Dad got an iPad, and that felt like a turning point.
2019 年左右，爸爸买了一台 iPad，这感觉像是一个转折点。
It wasn't long until he started saying weird things.
没过多久，他就开始说奇怪的话了。
One time, I was home visiting, and we got into it because he was trying to tell me that the government was controlling Facebook from the very beginning, and that Mark Zuckerberg was just a pawn.
有一次，我回家探望，我们陷入了困境，因为他试图告诉我，政府从一开始就控制着 Facebook，而马克·扎克伯格只是一个棋子。
And when the pandemic hit, it felt like the perfect storm.
当大流行来袭时，感觉就像一场完美的风暴。
Like so many of us, Dad went searching for answers.
和我们很多人一样，爸爸也在寻找答案。
I was googling around trying to find someone who I thought was reputable, reliable, and truly plugged into God.
我在谷歌上四处搜寻，试图找到一个我认为有信誉、可靠、真正与上帝相连的人。
I was trying to find someone who was a legitimate prophet, because there's a lot of false prophets out there.
我试图找到一个合法的先知，因为那里有很多假先知。
What Dad found was a lot of conspiracies, of course, but also the next evolution of his faith.
爸爸发现的当然是很多阴谋，但也是他信仰的下一步演变。
During the pandemic, Dad came to believe strongly in prophecy, the idea that God still speaks through intermediaries.
在大流行期间，父亲开始坚信预言，即上帝仍然通过中间人说话。
When you're talking about how God speaks today and you believe it's through prophets, that is a divisive within Christianity, right?
当你谈论神今天如何说话并且你相信这是通过先知时，这在基督教内部是一个分歧，对吗？
That is a divisive thought?
这是一个分裂的想法吗？
Very divisive.
非常分裂。
Zach Mack Why do you believe it?
扎克·麦克 你为什么相信它？
Because he's always had prophets.
因为他一直都有先知。
And it makes sense that just like he had profits in Old Testament times, he would continue with it.
这是有道理的，就像他在旧约时代获得利润一样，他会继续这样做。
Why would he suddenly stop?
为什么他会突然停下来？
I never quite understood why God would stop talking to his people.
我一直不太明白为什么神会停止与他的子民说话。
Sure enough, Dad found someone he believes can commune directly with God.
果然，爸爸找到了他认为可以直接与上帝交流的人。
I am the great revealer.
我是伟大的启示者。
Zach Mack Meet Julie Green, my dad's preferred prophet.
扎克·麦克认识朱莉·格林，我父亲最喜欢的预言家。
A great fall is coming, a fall of a global cabal.
一场伟大的衰落即将到来，全球阴谋集团的衰落即将到来。
My children, 2024 will be a year like no other.
我的孩子们，2024 年将是与众不同的一年。
I firmly believe that God did lead me to Julie Green.
我坚信上帝确实带领我找到了朱莉·格林。
She's not particularly big online, a couple 100,000 subscribers, but she's part of a growing movement within Christianity that emphasizes spiritual warfare and politics.
她的网络规模并不是特别大，只有十万订阅者，但她是基督教内部日益壮大的运动的一部分，该运动强调精神战争和政治。
It's all very Trumpy and full of prophecies.
这一切都非常特朗普并且充满了预言。
Secrets in the White House are about to be revealed.
白宫的秘密即将被揭露。
The Obamas, the Clintons, Adam Schiff, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi--
奥巴马夫妇、克林顿夫妇、亚当·希夫、米奇·麦康奈尔、查克·舒默、南希·佩洛西——
As you can probably tell, this is where Dad's getting most of his predictions.
正如你可能知道的，这是爸爸大部分预测的来源。
And when I talk to Dad about these predictions, it's clear that for him, they all stem from his religious beliefs, which I've always found somewhat confusing because when I look at his list, none of these things seem to have anything to do with God at all.
当我和爸爸谈论这些预测时，很明显，对他来说，它们都源于他的宗教信仰，我总是觉得这有点令人困惑，因为当我看他的清单时，这些事情似乎都与上帝没有任何关系。
In July, some news-- President Biden announced he was withdrawing as the Democratic nominee for president.
7月，有消息传来——拜登总统宣布退出民主党总统候选人。
I thought, what was Dad's prediction again?
我想，爸爸又预言了什么？
Oh, he said, removed from office.
哦，他说，被免职了。
Guess I'm in the clear.
我猜我是清白的。
As the year sped by, I read books with titles like When Prophecy Fails.
随着时间的流逝，我读了诸如《当预言失败时》之类的书。
I spoke to a number of clinicians and conspiracy experts, met my dad's pastors.
我采访了一些临床医生和阴谋专家，会见了我父亲的牧师。
I even interviewed several of his friends.
我什至采访了他的几个朋友。
None of them shared his beliefs, but they said they didn't really argue with him about it either.
他们没有人认同他的信仰，但他们说他们也没有真正与他争论这一点。
Only one said it hurt their friendship with Dad.
只有一个人说这损害了他们与爸爸的友谊。
Sometimes I'd send Dad highlights of articles debunking some of his more out-there claims, like the one about how the Joe Biden you see on the news is actually a body double.
有时我会给爸爸发一些文章的重点内容，揭穿他的一些更离谱的说法，比如你在新闻中看到的乔·拜登实际上是替身的文章。
Well, it's actually a common practice in a lot of third world countries.
嗯，这实际上是许多第三世界国家的常见做法。
Look at Saddam Hussein.
看看萨达姆·侯赛因。
Saddam Hussein had-- they aren't even sure, but over a half a dozen body doubles.
萨达姆·侯赛因有——他们甚至不确定，但有超过六个替身。
That's why he could appear in one part of the country one day and someplace else another day.
这就是为什么他可能有一天出现在这个国家的一个地方，另一天又出现在另一个地方。
Yeah, I don't think they were giving speeches and making policy on his behalf, though.
是的，不过我不认为他们是在代表他发表演讲和制定政策。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
Some of them were.
其中一些是。
Zach Mack I think they were just maybe like--
扎克·麦克，我想他们可能就像——
Some of them were.
其中一些是。
Zach Mack --a little quick appearance.
扎克·麦克——出场有点快。
But mostly, yeah, they were just appearances.
但大多数情况下，是的，它们只是表面现象。
Fun fact, while we're talking about body doubles, when the Biden--
有趣的是，当我们谈论替身时，当拜登——
[CHUCKLES] OK.
[轻笑]好的。
Dad The last time Netanyahu, who's the Israeli prime minister, came to visit the US here in Washington, DC, it was interesting that the fake Biden stood 6 inches taller than Netanyahu.
爸爸 以色列总理内塔尼亚胡上次来华盛顿访问美国时，有趣的是，假拜登比内塔尼亚胡高 6 英寸。
Netanyahu and Biden are both listed to be 5 feet, 10 inches tall.
内塔尼亚胡和拜登的身高均为 5 英尺 10 英寸。
So don't you find it interesting that when they were standing side by side in a couple of photos, that Biden was suddenly 6 inches taller?
那么，当他们在几张照片中并排站着时，拜登突然高了6英寸，你不觉得很有趣吗？
Well, first of all, Biden's listed height is 6 feet.
嗯，首先，拜登列出的身高是6英尺。
Let's see what Netanyahu's height is.
我们来看看内塔尼亚胡的身高是多少。
He's also 6 feet, it says.
上面说他也有 6 英尺高。
OK, yeah, they're the same height.
好吧，是的，他们身高一样。
The point is, they're the same height.
关键是，他们的身高是一样的。
I thought it was 5' 10".
我以为是 5 英尺 10 英寸。
So yeah.
所以是的。
So it's 6 feet.
所以是 6 英尺。
He looks a little taller.
他看上去高了一点。
Well, but he's taller in every picture.
嗯，但每张照片里他都更高。
This is a different place.
这是一个不同的地方。
Are they the same height?
他们的身高一样吗？
Zach Mack They don't look the same height in this picture.
扎克·麦克 他们在这张照片中看起来身高不一样。
OK, that's my point.
好吧，这就是我的观点。
They are the same height.
他们的身高相同。
Well, people lie about their heights all the time, right?
嗯，人们总是在身高上撒谎，对吧？
So I'm sure-- Allen Iverson was always listed as 6' 1".
所以我确信——阿伦·艾弗森总是被列为 6 英尺 1 英寸。
He was actually 5' 10", right?
他实际上身高 5 英尺 10 英寸，对吧？
People--
人们——
I get that.
我明白了。
I get that.
我明白了。
But presidents don't do this.
但总统不会这样做。
My fact-checker wants me to point out here that we don't actually know Allen Iverson's real height, or Netanyahu's height, or whether or not Saddam Hussein had body doubles.
我的事实核查员希望我在这里指出，我们实际上并不知道阿伦·艾弗森的真实身高，也不知道内塔尼亚胡的真实身高，也不知道萨达姆·侯赛因是否有替身。
But this is the joy of debating a conspiracy theorist.
但这就是与阴谋论者辩论的乐趣。
Inevitably, you run out of patience or just don't know the facts well enough to continue pushing back.
不可避免地，你会失去耐心，或者只是不太了解事实而无法继续反击。
So whenever I debate Dad, it feels like I can never do enough research or compile enough evidence.
因此，每当我与爸爸辩论时，我都感觉自己永远无法做足够的研究或收集足够的证据。
Later in the summer, I was reading a science journal and saw a possible way around that.
夏天晚些时候，我在阅读一本科学期刊时发现了一种可能的解决方法。
This research group was doing some experiments where they had some conspiracy theorists engage in conversations with AI chatbots, which had all the facts, could push back gently, and unlike me, had infinite patience.
这个研究小组正在做一些实验，他们让一些阴谋论者与人工智能聊天机器人进行对话，人工智能聊天机器人掌握了所有事实，可以温和地反击，而且与我不同的是，它有无限的耐心。
The data on its effectiveness looked pretty promising, so I reached out and actually got them to program something special just for my dad to try, which he did for several minutes.
关于其有效性的数据看起来非常有希望，所以我联系了他们，实际上让他们编写了一些特别的东西供我父亲尝试，他做了几分钟。
To be honest, it didn't say anything that I hadn't already heard.
老实说，它没有说任何我没听过的事情。
Swing and a miss.
摇摆和失手。
But the work continues.
但工作仍在继续。
In August, Dad got it in his head that Kamala Harris was going to be replaced as the Democratic nominee at the convention.
八月，爸爸想到卡玛拉·哈里斯将在大会上被取代，成为民主党提名人。
And out of nowhere, he made a second political conspiracy bet, this time with my mom.
突然间，他又下了第二次政治阴谋赌注，这次是和我妈妈打赌。
The terms-- if Mom lost, she'd have to give up, as he put it, all mainstream media for the rest of the year.
条款——如果妈妈输了，正如他所说，她将不得不放弃今年剩余时间里的所有主流媒体。
And if he lost, he'd have to stop watching Julie Green entirely, his favorite prophet.
如果他输了，他就必须完全停止观看他最喜欢的预言家朱莉·格林。
Much to Mom and I's delight, he lost that bet a few days later when Harris officially accepted the nomination.
让妈妈和我高兴的是，几天后，当哈里斯正式接受提名时，他输了这个赌注。
Your father's in his silk robe, and he's got a cocktail.
你父亲穿着丝绸长袍，手里拿着一杯鸡尾酒。
So Dad, so no more Julie Green till the end of the year?
那么爸爸，那么今年年底之前就不再有朱莉·格林了吗？
Correct.
正确。
Zach Mack How do you feel about that?
扎克·麦克你对此有何感想？
I'm disappointed, but it's OK.
我很失望，但没关系。
I have other resources.
我还有其他资源。
It did feel like a relief that he wouldn't be watching Julie Green anymore.
不用再看朱莉·格林了，这确实让他松了口气。
And him admitting he was wrong?
而且他承认自己错了？
That was something.
那是某件事。
By the fall, Dad and I were speaking more than ever and in ways we never have.
到了秋天，爸爸和我说话的次数比以往任何时候都多，而且以我们从未有过的方式。
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Yeah, you know me, these conversations and just talking about my dad and all the rest, absolutely.
是的，你了解我，这些谈话，只是谈论我的父亲和其他人，绝对。
And of course, football season was kicking off, so there were lots of calls and voicemails about Ohio State.
当然，橄榄球赛季即将开始，因此有很多关于俄亥俄州立大学的电话和语音邮件。
[CHEERING] Announcer Three penalties on this drive against Ohio State, and now Johnson waiting back.
[欢呼]播音员在对阵俄亥俄州立大学的比赛中受到三个处罚，现在约翰逊正在等待回来。
They should have thrown on first down or at least second down.
他们应该先投第一下，或者至少第二下。
Anyway, I'll talk to you at halftime.
无论如何，我会在中场休息时和你谈谈。
Dad and I were getting along better than ever, but time on our bet was running out.
爸爸和我相处得比以往任何时候都好，但我们打赌的时间已经不多了。
We're down to the last four months, last third of the year.
我们已经到了最后四个月，也就是今年的最后三分之一。
How do you feel about that?
你对此有何感想？
Dad Um, impatient.
爸爸 嗯，不耐烦。
I really thought more would have happened by now.
我真的以为现在会发生更多事情。
I don't think I ever asked you this, and I should have asked you-- why did you challenge me to this bet?
我想我从来没有问过你这个问题，我应该问你——你为什么向我挑战这个赌注？
Oh, why did I challenge you to this bet?
哦，我为什么要挑战你这个赌注？
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
I wanted to get your attention.
我想引起你的注意。
Well, because I wanted you to believe that God is still active and alive and still in control of the world.
好吧，因为我想让你相信上帝仍然活跃、活着，并且仍然控制着世界。
And I thought this would be a concrete way for you to see that and experience that.
我认为这将是您看到并体验这一点的具体方式。
Man, I didn't think about it that way.
伙计，我没有那样想。
So it's sort of about you wanting me to get closer to God.
所以这有点像你希望我更接近上帝。
Yeah.
是的。
Zach Mack I mean, I think that's very touching.
扎克·麦克 我的意思是，我认为这非常感人。
I think you're super wrong about all these predictions, but that your reasoning is very touching.
我认为你对所有这些预测都非常错误，但你的推理非常感人。
OK.
好的。
Zach Mack I appreciate that.
扎克·麦克对此表示赞赏。
Anyways, OK.
无论如何，好吧。
Let's end on a high note.
让我们以高调结束吧。
OK, sounds good.
好的，听起来不错。
We'll talk to you soon.
我们很快就会和你谈谈。
Sounds good.
听起来不错。
Love you guys.
爱你们。
Dad Hey, and you know what, Zach?
爸爸嘿，你知道吗，扎克？
Huh?
啊？
Dad This alone has been well worth it.
爸爸光是这一点就已经很值得了。
All the conversations--
所有的对话——
Oh.
哦。
Dad --we've had, this alone, I mean, to be perfectly honest, if I had to pay you 50 grand for the time we've spent together, every penny has been worth it.
爸爸——我们已经有过这样的经历，我的意思是，说实话，如果我必须为我们一起度过的时光付给你 50 英镑，那么每一分钱都是值得的。
Dad, well, I can't handle you saying things like that.
爸爸，好吧，我受不了你说这样的话。
This is too nice.
这也太好了吧。
This is too sweet.
这也太甜了吧。
It's too sweet.
太甜了。
I appreciate it, Dad.
我很感激，爸爸。
It's actually been really nice talking to you, too.
事实上，与你交谈也非常愉快。
Take care.
保重。
Zach Mack You, too.
扎克·麦克你也是。
Good night.
晚安。
As we stretch into November, Dad, Mom and I got hit with some sad news.
进入十一月，爸爸、妈妈和我收到了一些悲伤的消息。
After a year of nearly no contact with my father, my sister informed the family that she wouldn't be coming home for the holidays, which, in my lifetime, I count only three times we've ever missed the holidays together.
在与我父亲几乎没有联系的一年后，我姐姐告诉家人她不会回家过节，在我的一生中，我只数过我们一起错过假期的三次。
Why aren't you coming home for Christmas?
圣诞节你为什么不回家？
Because I don't want to be there.
因为我不想在那里。
Oh.
哦。
I feel like I'm going to cry.
我感觉我快要哭了。
[SIGHS]
[叹气]
(EMOTIONALLY) I think last year was so terrible, incredibly terrible for me.
（情感上）我认为去年对我来说非常糟糕，非常糟糕。
And the thought of being back in that space feels awful.
一想到回到那个空间就感觉很糟糕。
Why would I choose that?
我为什么会选择那个？
I'm not going to get OK with him believing that I'm somebody that I'm not and wanting so badly for me to be something else.
我不会同意他相信我是一个我不是的人，并且非常希望我成为另一个人。
And it's hard because I say that, and then I immediately think, well, that's what I want from him.
这很难，因为我这么说，然后我立即想，好吧，这就是我想从他那里得到的。
I want him to fundamentally change who he is and be a different person.
我希望他从根本上改变自己，成为一个不同的人。
That's where I feel stuck is, like, we want the same things from each other.
这就是我感到困惑的地方，就像我们想要从彼此身上得到同样的东西。
And I don't know if that's possible.
我不知道这是否可能。
I don't know either.
我也不知道。
The bet was nearly over, but it felt like our family was barely hanging on.
赌注即将结束，但感觉我们一家人已经快撑不下去了。
Then December came.
然后十二月来了。
It was just days before Christmas, days before I was flying home and Mom called me with another update.
就在圣诞节前几天，也就是我飞回家的前几天，妈妈打电话给我，告诉我另一条最新消息。
Hey, how are you?
嘿，你好吗？
Mom A lot going on in the last 12 hours.
妈妈过去 12 小时发生了很多事情。
[SIGHS]
[叹气]
She began to fill me in.
她开始向我补充。
The night before, Mom and Dad were talking about the state of the family over dinner.
前一天晚上，爸爸妈妈在吃饭时谈论着家里的情况。
And I told him that he was welcome to come Christmas Eve, but that, likely, Christmas Day, you and I would do something by ourselves.
我告诉他，欢迎他平安夜来，但很可能，圣诞节那天，你和我会自己做点什么。
And he got very upset.
他非常沮丧。
And we had a-- I mean, I can't remember exactly all the parts of the conversation, but I said, the reasoning, how I got to this place was the situation with Kira.
我们有一个 - 我的意思是，我记不清谈话的所有部分，但我说，推理，我如何到达这个地方是与基拉的情况。
And then I was tolerant of his religious journey.
然后我就容忍了他的宗教之旅。
I can be tolerant of political differences.
我可以容忍政治分歧。
But when he started following the YouTube shit--
但当他开始关注 YouTube 的时候——
Prophet.
先知。
Mom The prophet stuff and what I feel is fake news and all of the doom and gloom and generators and flats of water and granola bars all over the place, I said, I just-- I can't anymore.
妈妈，预言家的东西和我所感受到的都是假新闻，还有所有的厄运和阴郁、发电机、水和格兰诺拉麦片棒的公寓到处都是，我说，我只是——我不能再这样了。
I just can't anymore.
我不能再这样了。
Our 40-year history is just not enough for me.
我们 40 年的历史对我来说还不够。
We are already living very, very separate lives.
我们已经过着非常非常不同的生活。
Separate realities.
不同的现实。
Mom Yeah, and separate realities.
妈妈是的，还有不同的现实。
I didn't say that.
我没那么说。
He said that he's not going to change his religious viewpoints.
他说他不会改变他的宗教观点。
He's not going to change.
他不会改变。
And then I just said it.
然后我就说了。
And I just don't see a path where this marriage can continue.
我只是看不到这段婚姻可以继续下去的道路。
I don't see a path for me.
我看不到适合我的路。
And what did he say?
他说了什么？
Mom He sort of didn't really respond.
贺妈妈有点没有反应。
After 40 years of marriage, they had agreed to separate and for my dad to move out.
结婚 40 年后，他们同意分居，并让我父亲搬出去。
Dad's beliefs around Kira, the conspiracies, it had just become too much.
爸爸对基拉的信念、阴谋，已经变得太多了。
I'm embarrassed to say the situation with Kira wasn't the one that knocked it over.
我很尴尬地说，基拉的情况并不是导致一切崩溃的原因。
But I was ever hopeful that he would come to a reality about that.
但我一直希望他能够实现这一点。
But what I realized is that he's beyond redemption at this point.
但我意识到他现在已经无可救药了。
There's this little piece of me that is like, you have this conversation with him on January 1, his list is debunked.
我心里有这样的想法，你在 1 月 1 日与他进行了这次谈话，他的名单被揭穿了。
He will realize, if he steps back and looks at the whole picture, that he's not grounded in any reality, and that he'll have an awakening, and I will have a marriage and a family.
如果他退后一步，纵观全局，他就会意识到，他没有立足于任何现实，他将会觉醒，而我将会拥有婚姻和家庭。
So this was the situation I flew home to.
这就是我飞回家时的情况。
Things felt weird.
事情感觉很奇怪。
I spent the week crashing at friends' houses and in hotels.
我在朋友家和酒店度过了一周。
Mom slept in Kira's room.
妈妈睡在基拉的房间里。
Christmas Day, as you can imagine, was sad.
正如你可以想象的那样，圣诞节是悲伤的一天。
There were no gifts exchanged.
没有交换礼物。
Mom and I just went to the movies and ate Chinese food.
我和妈妈刚去看电影，吃了中餐。
I'm not even sure what my father or sister got up to that day.
我什至不确定我的父亲或姐姐那天做了什么。
A few days later, Dad said he was ready to sit down and close out the bet.
几天后，爸爸说他准备坐下来结束赌注。
Coming up, somebody's going to need to say, as promised, you were right, I was wrong, which can be such a powerful thing in any relationship.
接下来，有人需要像承诺的那样说，你是对的，我错了，这在任何关系中都是如此强大的事情。
That's in a minute, Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台，一会儿我们的节目就会继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our show today, 10 things I don't want to hate about you, about Zach Mack and his year-long bet with his dad.
我们今天的节目，关于你、关于扎克·麦克以及他与父亲长达一年的打赌的十件事，我不想恨。
We've arrived at the end of December.
我们已经到了12月底了。
Zach's family is not doing well.
扎克的家人过得并不好。
And there's still the bet.
而且仍然有赌注。
I know this sounds crazy because as bad as things had gotten, Dad was still excited about settling up.
我知道这听起来很疯狂，因为尽管事情已经变得很糟糕，但爸爸仍然对安顿下来感到兴奋。
I had no idea what he was going to say.
我不知道他要说什么。
But as we often are, we started off pretty playfully, which is our way of postponing the hard stuff.
但正如我们经常做的那样，我们一开始就很有趣，这是我们推迟困难事情的方式。
All right.
好吧。
OK, here we go.
好的，我们开始吧。
Dad All right.
爸爸 好吧。
Hand me the wine here.
把这里的酒递给我。
Oh, I should go get my list, right?
哦，我应该去拿我的清单，对吗？
Yeah, go get your list.
是的，去拿你的清单。
Dad Yeah, let me just have it, too, so I can look at it and see if there's anything I can pretend happened.
爸爸 是的，也让我拥有它，这样我就可以看看它，看看是否有什么我可以假装发生的事情。
Well, at least so far, we're sharing a reality.
好吧，至少到目前为止，我们正在分享一个现实。
OK, I'm just going to go through the list for your 10 predictions for the year.
好的，我将列出您今年的 10 个预测。
We'll start there.
我们将从这里开始。
OK.
好的。
Zach Mack We'll start with the easy ones.
扎克·麦克（Zach Mack）：我们将从简单的开始。
There's four that can easily be grouped together.
有四个可以很容易地组合在一起。
And that is Barack Obama will be convicted of treason, Joe Biden will be convicted of treason, Nancy Pelosi convicted of treason, the Clintons convicted of treason and murder.
那就是巴拉克·奥巴马将被判犯有叛国罪，乔·拜登将被判犯有叛国罪，南希·佩洛西将被判犯有叛国罪，克林顿夫妇将被判犯有叛国罪和谋杀罪。
Right?
对吗？
Those are all kind of-- I would group them categorically.
这些都是——我会把它们分类。
Right, yeah.
对，是的。
Zach Mack I began-- no investigations, no charges, no convictions, literally no momentum of any kind.
扎克·麦克一开始——没有调查，没有指控，没有定罪，实际上没有任何形式的动力。
And yes, I fully hoped that would take place before the end of 2024, but that has not taken place.
是的，我完全希望这能在 2024 年底之前实现，但目前还没有实现。
If you're keeping score at home, that's four for me.
如果你在家里记分的话，对我来说是四分。
All right, next one.
好吧，下一篇。
You said Trump will be reinstated without an election.
你说特朗普将在不举行选举的情况下复职。
Trump won reelection.
特朗普赢得连任。
He was not reinstated without an election.
未经选举，他没有复职。
That's five.
那是五个。
Next prediction, Trump will have all charges dropped.
下一次预测，特朗普将撤销所有指控。
On May 30, 2024, Trump was found guilty and convicted on 34 felony charges in the New York hush money trial.
2024年5月30日，特朗普在纽约封口费审判中被判有罪，并被判犯有34项重罪。
Yeah.
是的。
Zach Mack To be fair to Dad, charges in two other cases were dropped, but Dad's prediction was all charges, so that makes six for me.
扎克·麦克：为了对爸爸公平，另外两起案件的指控被撤销，但爸爸的预测是所有指控，所以对我来说有六起。
Moving on, next one, you said Governor Hochul, the governor of New York, would be removed from office.
接下来，下一篇，您说纽约州州长霍赫尔将被免职。
Governor Hochul is currently in office with no charges being brought against her.
霍楚尔州长目前在任，没有对她提出任何指控。
She will be up for reelection in 2026.
她将于 2026 年竞选连任。
That is correct.
这是正确的。
Zach Mack Seven.
扎克·麦克七。
Onto the home stretch-- Biden will be removed from office.
进入最后冲刺阶段——拜登将被免职。
So Biden's still in the White House.
所以拜登仍在白宫。
You're not rebutting that.
你没有反驳这一点。
Yeah, well, because somebody pretending to be the Biden is in the White House.
是的，好吧，因为白宫里有人冒充拜登。
And we're back to body doubles.
我们又回到了身体替身。
But even still, he conceded the point, so that's eight.
但即便如此，他还是承认了这一点，所以这是八分。
OK, then there's Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, who Dad predicted would be removed from office, which still might happen.
好吧，还有纽约市长埃里克·亚当斯，爸爸预测他会被免职，这种情况仍然有可能发生。
But Dad said by the end of 2024.
但爸爸说要到2024年底。
As it stands right now, he's still the mayor.
现在的情况是，他仍然是市长。
Right.
对。
Zach Mack Tough break, but that makes nine.
扎克·麦克 (Zach Mack) 艰难突破，但这就是九分。
OK, last one--
好吧，最后一张——
Our country would come under martial law.
我们的国家将实行戒严。
As far as I know, that didn't happen.
据我所知，这并没有发生。
That did not happen.
但那并没有发生。
Zach Mack OK.
扎克·麦克 好的。
Any rebuttals there?
还有反驳吗？
Oh, no. Dad --I still see that as a strong possibility of happening.
哦，不。爸爸——我仍然认为这种情况发生的可能性很大。
I think it still has a strong possibility of happening within the next two months.
我认为未来两个月内发生的可能性仍然很大。
Here we go.
我们开始吧。
Dad And I still am 100% positive that all these are true.
爸爸，我仍然百分百肯定所有这些都是真的。
Even though none of them have been actualized by the end of 2024.
尽管到 2024 年底这些目标都没有实现。
So your explanation for why these things did not yet come to pass is that you just got the timeline wrong?
那么你对为什么这些事情还没有发生的解释是你只是弄错了时间表？
Yes.
是的。
Zach Mack We're sort of starting where we're ending, which is you still believe what you believe, and I still believe that that's false.
扎克·麦克：我们从结束的地方开始，那就是你仍然相信你所相信的，而我仍然相信那是错误的。
Correct.
正确。
Zach Mack I had waited for so long to hear him say the magic words we agreed to a year ago.
扎克·麦克 我等了很久才听到他说出我们一年前约定的神奇话语。
Now the moment finally came.
现在这一刻终于到来了。
Wow, Zach, I was wrong.
哇，扎克，我错了。
And, um-- and what?
而且，嗯——还有什么？
Oh, and you were correct.
哦，你是对的。
Zach Mack To tell you the truth, hearing this was completely unsatisfying because I knew he didn't really believe it.
扎克·麦克：说实话，听到这个消息我完全不满意，因为我知道他并不真正相信。
I had won the bet, but it didn't really feel like winning.
我赢了赌注，但并没有真正赢的感觉。
I just see an unwillingness for you to be wrong.
我只是看到你不愿意犯错。
Wrong about 10 things.
大约有10件事是错误的。
I'm going to admit, I was wrong about the timeline on all 10 things.
我承认，我对所有 10 件事的时间表都错了。
I've been wrong--
我错了——
I've been-- Zach Mack Not that you're wrong about them.
我一直——扎克·麦克（Zach Mack）并不是说你对他们的看法是错误的。
You're just wrong about the timeline.
你只是对时间线的理解错了。
Sure, but it's a half measure.
当然可以，但这只是一半的措施。
It's a way for you to be right.
这是让你保持正确的一种方式。
I can't say I was surprised.
我不能说我很惊讶。
All year long, I had read about how unlikely it is to pull someone away from these kinds of beliefs, how when believers of a prophecy witness it not come to pass, that oftentimes, they inexplicably double down, which was exactly what he was doing.
整整一年，我都读到过要让一个人摆脱这些信仰是多么不可能，当预言的信徒目睹预言没有实现时，他们常常会莫名其妙地加倍努力，而这正是他所做的。
All of these beliefs, it feels like you're really holding on to them.
所有这些信念，感觉就像你真的坚持着它们。
And I'm not sure why.
我不知道为什么。
Because I know they're true.
因为我知道它们是真的。
Why am I going to abandon truth?
为什么我要放弃真理？
Why would I believe a lie?
我为什么会相信谎言？
Why would I give that up?
我为什么要放弃那个？
And it's not an arrogant thing.
而且这并不是什么傲慢的事情。
It's a knowing in my soul and in my spirit.
这是我灵魂和灵里的认识。
So yeah, I mean, I can't abandon the truth.
所以是的，我的意思是，我不能放弃真相。
I was getting nowhere, and it was frustrating.
我一无所获，这令人沮丧。
But I thought, this is history repeating itself.
但我想，这是历史的重演。
Surely, he could see that, right?
当然，他能看到这一点，对吗？
One of the things I've thought a lot about during this process is your dad and what happened to him.
在这个过程中我思考了很多的事情之一是你的父亲以及他身上发生的事情。
And in the face of so many people around him, including yourself, saying, "Hey, you're going down the wrong road.
面对他周围的很多人，包括你自己，他说：“嘿，你走错了路。
Don't do this.
不要这样做。
Please listen," and he wouldn't.
请听我说”，但他不肯。
He wouldn't hear it from anyone.
他不会从任何人那里听到这件事。
And it cost him his life.
这让他付出了生命的代价。
I see a lot of parallels with what's happening right now.
我发现与现在正在发生的事情有很多相似之处。
Interesting.
有趣。
Zach Mack I don't think you're at risk of physical danger so much.
扎克·麦克：我认为你面临的人身危险并没有那么大。
Yeah.
是的。
Zach Mack I think you're at risk of a lot of other things.
扎克·麦克（Zach Mack）我认为你面临着很多其他事情的风险。
Like what?
比如什么？
Zach Mack [SIGHS] Financial ruin.
扎克·麦克 [叹气] 财务崩溃。
I think you're at risk of being ostracized and completely left out of this family dynamic.
我认为你有被排斥并完全被排除在这个家庭动态之外的风险。
That would break my heart.
那会让我心碎。
But I see that.
但我看到了这一点。
How so?
怎么会这样呢？
Zach Mack I feel like the closest friends in your life, your family, the people around you are telling you, hey, you're going the wrong way, and you're not listening.
扎克·麦克（Zach Mack） 我觉得你生命中最亲密的朋友、你的家人、你周围的人都在告诉你，嘿，你走错了路，而你却没有在听。
Actually, none of them are saying that to me.
事实上，他们没有人对我这么说。
OK.
好的。
Dad The only people who've said that are you and Mom.
爸爸 只有你和妈妈说过这句话。
So if all those people told you, would you hear them?
那么，如果所有这些人告诉你，你会听到吗？
I would listen to them.
我会听他们的。
I probably wouldn't change, but I'd listen to them.
我可能不会改变，但我会听他们的。
I'd take it into consideration.
我会考虑到这一点。
You don't think that sounds like your dad?
你不觉得这听起来像你爸爸吗？
That aspect of it, yeah.
这方面，是的。
But my dad, my dad had trouble living in reality.
但我的爸爸，我的爸爸在现实生活中遇到了困难。
I don't have trouble living in reality.
我生活在现实中没有任何困难。
I would argue that you do.
我认为你确实如此。
I mean, look at the state of our family right now.
我的意思是，看看我们家庭现在的状况。
And I think we've gotten to this place in large part because of your beliefs.
我认为我们能走到这一步，很大程度上是因为你们的信念。
Well, we've gotten here completely because of a difference in beliefs.
好吧，我们走到这一步完全是因为信仰的不同。
Yeah, you can point the finger at me and say, it's because of your beliefs.
是的，你可以指责我说，这是因为你的信仰。
Well, that's partially true, but it's simultaneously because of the three of your beliefs, right?
嗯，这部分是正确的，但同时也是因为你的三个信念，对吧？
And I understand your beliefs, but I don't believe that way.
我理解你的信念，但我不这么认为。
I'm not going to pretend I believe that way.
我不会假装我相信那样。
And I know you guys don't want me just to pretend.
我知道你们不希望我只是假装。
You want me to embrace it and live it and think it and breathe it, the same way you do.
你希望我像你一样拥抱它、生活它、思考它、呼吸它。
I can't do that.
我不能那样做。
[SIGHS] Dad Therefore, it creates a wedge, right?
[叹息]爸爸 因此，它会形成一个楔子，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Dad But it doesn't have to.
爸爸 但这没必要。
I think the post-COVID years have really magnified and polarized people.
我认为后新冠时代确实让人们变得更加放大和两极分化。
Yeah.
是的。
But I would say that's when you got radicalized.
但我想说那就是你变得激进的时候。
I don't think, ultimately, Mom, Kira, and I have changed a lot ideologically since that time.
我认为，从那时起，妈妈、基拉和我的意识形态最终并没有发生太大变化。
I don't think you're in the same place.
我不认为你们在同一个地方。
I can agree with that.
我同意这一点。
I see that.
我明白了。
I have made more significant changes in the past four years in terms of my own spiritual awareness and spiritual growth.
这四年来我在自己的精神觉悟和精神成长方面有了比较显着的改变。
[SIGHS] Yeah.
[叹气]是的。
Dad So and that certainly, I know, feels and looks very radical.
爸爸 所以，我知道，这确实感觉和看起来都非常激进。
Oh, I think your mom-- I don't know what I think about her anymore.
哦，我想你妈妈——我不知道我对她有什么看法了。
[CHUCKLES] I mean, I don't think negative about her, other than she's lost and confused.
[咯咯笑]我的意思是，除了她迷失和困惑之外，我对她没有负面看法。
I mean, I guess she would say that about you.
我的意思是，我猜她会这么说你。
Probably, and a lot worse.
可能，而且更糟。
I continue to love your mom, but this is the irony.
我仍然爱你妈妈，但这就是讽刺。
She sits in judgment of me and therefore judges me unworthy of being her partner and husband anymore.
她对我进行评判，因此认为我不配再成为她的伴侣和丈夫。
I mean, short of pretending to be somebody who I'm not, I don't see a solution.
我的意思是，除了假装成不是我的人之外，我看不到任何解决方案。
Yeah.
是的。
I agree.
我同意。
I watched his frustration rise as he came up empty over and over, slowly realizing there was no fixing this.
我看着他的挫败感不断上升，他一遍又一遍地空手而归，慢慢意识到这个问题是无法解决的。
I mean, look, I think this year has been difficult, especially recently.
我的意思是，你看，我认为今年很困难，尤其是最近。
I do feel like we are getting along really well.
我确实觉得我们相处得很好。
I do feel conflicted because as that's happening, you and Mom are getting separated, and Kira is not home for Christmas.
我确实感到很矛盾，因为当这种情况发生时，你和妈妈就要分开了，而基拉圣诞节也不在家。
And those are all because of your beliefs.
而这些都是因为你的信念。
I can accept you and love you and have my beliefs and accept your beliefs.
我可以接受你并爱你，拥有我的信仰并接受你的信仰。
You can't accept my beliefs without judging me.
你不能在不评判我的情况下接受我的信仰。
Not at all.
一点也不。
I love my daughter.
我爱我的女儿。
I love Kira.
我爱基拉。
I know that you do.
我知道你会的。
Dad I would never, I would never disown my daughter.
爸爸，我永远不会、我永远不会否认我的女儿。
But I think Kira does feel rejected.
但我认为基拉确实感到被拒绝。
She does not feel fully accepted by you.
她觉得你没有完全接受她。
Yeah, I get that.
是的，我明白了。
It's not about rejection.
这与拒绝无关。
See, that's how you guys label it.
瞧，你们就是这么标记的。
But it's not rejection.
但这并不是拒绝。
It's about looking at it from a spiritual viewpoint where this is not what God wants for her.
这是从精神的角度来看这不是上帝对她的期望。
As the conversation wound down, I let go of any notion that I could convince him of anything.
随着谈话的结束，我放弃了我可以说服他任何事情的想法。
I was finally ready to stop struggling and just accept the truth.
我终于准备好停止挣扎并接受事实。
I couldn't help him.
我帮不了他。
I just want to say, I do really appreciate-- ooh, man, sorry.
我只想说，我真的很感激——哦，伙计，对不起。
[SNIFFLES, SIGHS] It's been-- it's been a hard year, man.
[抽鼻子，叹气]这是——这是艰难的一年，伙计。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, I appreciate the conversations we've had all year.
我的意思是，我很欣赏我们这一整年的对话。
Like, I do feel-- I don't know.
就像，我确实感觉到——我不知道。
I feel closer to you than I ever have.
我感觉比以往任何时候都更接近你。
And I'm really sad about the state of this family.
我对这个家庭的状况感到非常难过。
Yeah.
是的。
Zach Mack But I do appreciate your openness, your willingness to-- [CRYING] you never ducked.
扎克·麦克 但我确实很欣赏你的坦诚，你愿意——[哭泣]你从不回避。
You never ducked a hard question.
你从来没有回避过一个棘手的问题。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I mean-- [SNIFFLES] where do you think we'll be next Christmas?
我的意思是——[抽鼻子]你认为明年圣诞节我们会在哪里？
I-- [LAUGHS] I don't know.
我——[笑]我不知道。
I have no idea.
我不知道。
I have no idea, man.
我不知道，伙计。
[SIGHS] I can't even think that far ahead.
[叹气]我什至无法想那么远。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I have one final question for you.
是的，我有最后一个问题要问你。
OK.
好的。
[CHUCKLES] Zach Mack How are you going to pay me?
[咯咯笑]扎克·麦克你打算怎么付钱给我？
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
Um-- Zach Mack Check?
嗯——扎克·麦克检查？
Should we go to the bank?
我们应该去银行吗？
Should I get one of those giant golf checks?
我应该得到一张巨额高尔夫支票吗？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I figured you'd probably want small, unmarked bills.
我想你可能想要小额、没有标记的钞票。
Yeah, I have a gym bag.
是的，我有一个健身包。
Dad OK.
爸爸好吧。
We'll fill that puppy up.
我们会把那只小狗填饱的。
Let's do it.
我们开始做吧。
We made the bet a year ago, but I've waited a lot longer than that to have this conversation with him.
我们一年前就下了赌注，但我等了很久才和他进行这次谈话。
I love you, too.
我也爱你。
As we stood there hugging, I just broke down.
当我们站在那里拥抱时，我崩溃了。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry it's been-- [CRYING]
我很抱歉——[哭泣]
I don't know what comes next, where the family goes from here.
我不知道接下来会发生什么，也不知道这个家庭将何去何从。
It felt like things fell apart so quickly, but also slowly over many years.
感觉事情分崩离析得如此之快，但多年来却又缓慢地分崩离析。
I think in many ways, I'm the one who got off the easiest.
我认为从很多方面来说，我都是最容易摆脱困境的人。
I'm still in good standing with everyone, which makes me feel a mixture of relief and guilt.
我在每个人中仍然享有良好的声誉，这让我感到一种既宽慰又内疚的感觉。
And if you're wondering, yes, I took the money.
如果你想知道，是的，我拿了钱。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
But on New Year's Day, the day my dad officially lost the bet--
但在元旦，我爸爸正式输掉赌注的那一天——
I'm pumped up.
我很兴奋。
Zach Mack --I took him to go see Ohio State, our favorite football team, play in the Rose Bowl--
扎克·麦克——我带他去看俄亥俄州立大学，我们最喜欢的橄榄球队，在玫瑰碗比赛——
What do you think the score is going to be?
你认为比分会是多少？
--and paid for everything.
——并支付了一切费用。
Dad I think it's going to be 31 to 22, Bucks.
爸爸，我认为雄鹿队的比分将会是 31 比 22。
Yet another prediction my father got wrong, by the way.
顺便说一下，我父亲的另一个预测是错误的。
But they did win.
但他们确实赢了。
Go, Buckeyes.
走吧，七叶树。
It felt good to treat dad with his own money and to agree on the one reality we've always shared-- football-- maybe the only one we ever will.
用自己的钱款待父亲，并就我们一直共享的一个现实达成一致——足球——也许是我们唯一愿意做的事情，这感觉很好。
As I watched the clock run down, I knew that the moment the game was over, we'd have to face the fact that, as a family, in the end, we didn't make it.
当我看着时间流逝的时候，我知道比赛结束的那一刻，我们必须面对这样一个事实：作为一个家庭，我们最终没能成功。
Zach Mack.
扎克·麦克.
He's a producer at Vox Media.
他是 Vox Media 的制片人。
His story was a collaboration with NPR's Embedded podcast, which, if you haven't heard them, you should check them out.
他的故事是与 NPR 的嵌入式播客合作的，如果您还没有听过，您应该查看一下。
They have lots of documentary stories like this.
他们有很多这样的纪录片故事。
David Kestenbaum, on our staff, worked on the story here.
我们的员工大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 负责制作这个故事。
The staff who worked on it there were producers Dan Girma and Ariana Gharib Lee.
制作该片的工作人员是制片人 Dan Girma 和 Ariana Gharib Lee。
Editing by Luis Trelles.
路易斯·特雷勒斯编辑。
Katie Simon is Embedded's showrunner.
凯蒂·西蒙 (Katie Simon) 是《Embedded》的剧集主管。
Some original music in this episode was composed by Peter Leonard.
本集中的一些原创音乐是由彼得·伦纳德创作的。
Fact-checking by Gretta Pittenger on the Embedded staff and Christopher Swetala on our staff.
Gretta Pittenger 对嵌入式员工和 Christopher Swetala 对我们的员工进行了事实核查。
NPR's Embedded is releasing a three-part series about Zach's bet with his dad that gets into material that we did not have time for here, including some revealing conversations with his dad's friends and some more interesting stuff from Zach and his dad.
NPR 的 Embedded 正在发布一个关于扎克与他父亲打赌的三集系列节目，其中涉及我们没有时间在此讨论的材料，包括与他父亲的朋友的一些揭露性对话以及扎克和他父亲的一些更有趣的内容。
It is available now.
现在可以使用了。
You can find Embedded wherever you get your podcasts.
无论您在何处获取播客，都可以找到嵌入式。
Part Three: Part Three Ira Glass Well, today's episode was produced by Lilly Sullivan.
第三部分： 第三部分 Ira Glass 嗯，今天的节目由 Lilly Sullivan 制作。
The people who put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Angela Gervasi, Cassie Howley, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Frances Swanson, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Angela Gervasi、Cassie Howley、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Frances Swanson 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Avery Trufelman.
今天特别感谢艾弗里·特鲁费尔曼。
If you like our show and you want more of our show, we've been cranking out bonus episodes every two weeks.
如果您喜欢我们的节目并且想要更多我们的节目，我们每两周都会推出奖励剧集。
This week, the bonus episode is interviews with my cousin, the composer Philip Glass, including one where he sits at a piano and he explains what he hears when he listens to his own music.
本周的附加节目是对我表弟、作曲家菲利普·格拉斯的采访，其中有一次他坐在钢琴前，解释了他在听自己的音乐时听到的内容。
To get that and all of our bonus episodes-- we've been trying all kinds of stuff-- become a Life Partner.
为了获得这一点以及我们所有的奖励剧集——我们一直在尝试各种各样的东西——成为生活伴侣。
When you do, you also get ad-free listening.
当您这样做时，您还可以获得无广告的聆听体验。
You get the special archive of over hundred greatest hits episodes that show up right in your podcast feed for your convenience.
您可以获得一百多个最热门剧集的特殊存档，这些剧集会直接显示在您的播客源中，以方便您使用。
How do you get all this?
你如何得到这一切？
It could not be easier.
这再简单不过了。
Go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
访问 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our show's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
Fun fact about him-- he has never seen a panda.
关于他的有趣事实——他从未见过熊猫。
He told me he's going to a zoo this weekend to do just that.
他告诉我他这个周末要去动物园就是为了这么做。
I think it will be very black and white.
我认为这将是非常黑白分明的。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。