850: If You Want to Destroy My Sweater, Hold This Thread as I Walk Away - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #850 | January 2, 2026 850: If You Want to Destroy My Sweater, Hold This Thread as I Walk Away Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 850 集 | 2026 年 1 月 2 日 850：如果你想毁掉我的毛衣，请在我走开时握住这条线 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass This is not a setting where Chris was used to learning anything important, much less having his whole world rocked by something somebody said.
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯 克里斯不习惯在这个环境中学习任何重要的东西，更不用说让他的整个世界被某人的话所震撼。
He was 15, in health class, in San Juan Capistrano, California.
当时他 15 岁，在加利福尼亚州圣胡安卡皮斯特拉诺上健康课。
As Chris remembers it, it was the beginning of the period.
克里斯记得，那是这个时期的开始。
Class was just beginning to settle down.
班级才刚刚开始安定下来。
The teacher was also the school's basketball coach.
这位老师也是学校的篮球教练。
You know, in my memory, he's the standard-issue-- I don't know-- tallish, white guy coach with, like, neatly parted brown hair.
你知道，在我的记忆中，他是标准的——我不知道——身材高大的白人教练，有着整齐分开的棕色头发。
And the bell rings.
铃声响起。
Class is supposed to start.
该上课了。
And we're all just talking over him, not listening.
我们都只是在谈论他，而不是在听。
And he's trying to get class started.
他正在努力开始上课。
And I think he's getting, understandably, a little annoyed.
我认为他有点生气，这是可以理解的。
And then at one point, one of the girls said loudly, we're all going to be friends forever.
然后有一次，其中一个女孩大声说道，我们将成为永远的朋友。
And then he gets our attention and said something like, just for your information, you're not going to all stay friends forever.
然后他引起了我们的注意，并说了一些类似的话，仅供参考，你们不会永远都是朋友。
And let me tell you a little bit about how friendships work.
让我告诉你一些关于友谊是如何运作的。
He says, in a couple of years, high school is going to end, and you're going to all scatter to different jobs or colleges, and you're going to start falling out of touch with each other, and eventually, you're not going to talk to most of any of these other people.
他说，几年后，高中即将结束，你们将分散到不同的工作或大学，你们将开始彼此失去联系，最终，你们将不会与其他大多数人交谈。
And now, you might--
现在，你可能——
(LAUGHING) Can we just pause?
（笑）我们可以暂停一下吗？
That is such-- it's real.
就是这样——这是真的。
It's very true.
这是非常正确的。
But what a funny thing to say to a bunch of kids.
但对一群孩子说这是多么有趣的事情啊。
Yeah.
是的。
It's like, suddenly, he had our full attention.
就好像突然之间，他引起了我们的全部注意力。
But then the teacher kept going.
但后来老师继续说下去。
He wasn't done.
他还没有完成。
He got very specific and said, OK, you might stay in touch with a few friends from high school.
他非常具体地说，好吧，你可以和一些高中的朋友保持联系。
He said, like, well, then you're going to get into your 30s and your 40s, and it'll be harder.
他说，好吧，那么你就会进入 30 多岁和 40 多岁，这会变得更加困难。
You'll be working.
你会工作的。
And then some of you might get married, and your free time-- a lot of that should go towards your spouse.
然后你们中的一些人可能会结婚，而你们的空闲时间——其中很多应该花在你的配偶身上。
And if you have kids, oh, whatever little free time you have left, that'll go to the kids.
如果你有孩子，哦，无论你剩下多少空闲时间，都会留给孩子们。
And finally, he said, the only friends you're going to be left with are the parents of whatever kid your little toddler or whatever randomly sidles up to because they both like the same part of the playground.
最后，他说，你唯一能留下的朋友就是你的小孩或任何随机靠近的孩子的父母，因为他们都喜欢操场的同一部分。
That person, that parent-- that's going to be your friend.
那个人，那个父母——那将是你的朋友。
That is a very thorough and vivid and not inaccurate picture of the future, that it's amazing that he went into that much detail.
这是一幅非常彻底、生动、准确的未来图景，令人惊奇的是他竟然如此详细。
Yes.
是的。
By then, we were like-- I remember a sort of, like, stunned silence at that point.
那时，我们就像——我记得当时有一种令人震惊的沉默。
And maybe there's one person who said, like, no, or like, no, he's wrong, or we're going to stay friends, or something.
也许有人会说，不，或者说，不，他错了，或者我们会继续做朋友，或者诸如此类。
And then the class-- and then the class began, and I don't remember anything else from that day.
然后上课——然后开始上课，我不记得那天发生的任何事情。
This is actually one of the producers on our show, Chris Benderev.
这实际上是我们节目的制片人之一克里斯·本德列夫。
And he says he remembers the other kids in class, kind of, shrugging this off like, yeah, whatever.
他说他记得班上的其他孩子，有点耸耸肩，就像，是的，无论如何。
But he couldn't.
但他不能。
Did you think it was true?
你认为这是真的吗？
Chris Benderev Absolutely.
克里斯·本德列夫 绝对。
I thought that he-- I remember thinking, oh, no, I hope that he's wrong, but it sounds like he's right.
我想他——我记得当时想，哦，不，我希望他是错的，但听起来他是对的。
That's what I remember thinking.
我记得就是这么想的。
It had the air of truth, partly because it was so specific-- the playground detail, especially.
它给人一种真实的感觉，部分原因是它是如此具体——尤其是操场上的细节。
Before this moment, Chris hadn't bothered picturing what the future was going to be very much.
在此之前，克里斯并没有费心去想象未来会是什么样子。
He had a vague sense that things were going to get better and better.
他有一种模糊的预感，事情会变得越来越好。
But now, thanks to this random speech by this otherwise forgotten teacher, he realized the future he was facing--
但现在，多亏了这位原本被遗忘的老师的这番随意的演讲，他意识到了自己所面临的未来——
It's going to get tedious and small and narrow and boring.
它会变得乏味、狭小、狭窄和无聊。
Because when you're in high school, what is better than hanging out with your friends?
因为当你在高中时，还有什么比和朋友一起出去玩更好的呢？
Right.
正确的。
Chris Benderev Like, that was the best thing you could do.
克里斯·本德列夫 就像，这是你能做的最好的事情。
And so you're going to have less and less of that, and this tiny world where you don't even get to pick your friends.
所以你拥有的东西会越来越少，你甚至无法选择你的朋友的这个小世界。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That just seemed very sad at the time-- and scary, a little bit.
当时这看起来非常悲伤——而且有点可怕。
In fact, as senior year approached, as graduation day approached, Chris says that this tiny, two-minute speech by this teacher totally colored how he was seeing it.
事实上，随着高年级的临近，随着毕业日的临近，克里斯说，这位老师的这段两分钟的简短演讲完全改变了他的看法。
He loved his friends.
他爱他的朋友。
I was scared of the end of high school in a way that I think most 18-year-olds aren't.
我对高中的结束感到恐惧，我认为大多数 18 岁的人都不会如此。
It seemed like this was going to be the beginning of the end.
看起来这将是终结的开始。
And so I became very kind of nostalgic and also fearful, like a doomsday clock or something was running down.
所以我变得非常怀旧，也很害怕，就像世界末日的时钟或什么东西快要坏了。
Chris actually checked on the health teacher recently.
克里斯最近确实检查过健康老师。
And of course, he had no memory of making that speech, though he said it was exactly the kind of thing that he might have said.
当然，他不记得做过那次演讲，尽管他说这正是他可能会说的事情。
And in fact, he did remember saying it at some point to his own kids.
事实上，他确实记得在某个时候对自己的孩子说过这句话。
This teacher said that he would like to believe that he meant it in a kind of nice, "cherish these special times" sort of way, and he was horrified at the thought that this made Chris or any other kid feel bad for the rest of high school.
这位老师说，他愿意相信他的意思是一种善意的，“珍惜这些特殊的时光”之类的方式，一想到这让克里斯或任何其他孩子对高中剩下的时间感到难过，他就感到震惊。
But it just goes to show you how somebody can say something off the cuff that can accidentally turn somebody else's world completely upside down.
但它只是向你展示了一个人如何可以即兴说出一些话，从而意外地彻底颠覆别人的世界。
We asked listeners if they ever experienced this, and hundreds responded.
我们询问听众是否经历过这种情况，数百人做出了回应。
Some of the sentences that were said casually to them that later, alone, they obsessed over.
有些话是随口对他们说的，后来独自一人却念念不忘。
"It's not your glasses that are uneven.
“这不是你的眼镜不平整。
It's your face."
这是你的脸。”
"You must have been surrounded by some pretty insensitive people growing up."
“在你的成长过程中，周围一定都是一些相当麻木不仁的人。”
"No, no, you're the only circumcised one in the family."
“不不，你是家里唯一受过割礼的人。”
And one last one, said by a childhood acquaintance at a funeral.
最后一句话是一位童年熟人在葬礼上说的。
"Jenny, little Jenny, you're the one that nobody liked."
“珍妮，小珍妮，你是一个没人喜欢的人。”
In Chris's case, the teacher's comment obviously stayed with him.
在克里斯的例子中，老师的评论显然让他留下了深刻的印象。
How old are you now?
你现在几岁了？
Chris Benderev I am 38.
克里斯·本德列夫 我今年 38 岁。
And how many friends from high school are you in touch with?
你有多少高中时期的朋友有联系？
Three or four.
三四个。
Three or four.
三四个。
And really, only one that I see regularly.
确实，只有我经常看到的一个。
So the guy was right.
所以那家伙是对的。
Chris Benderev Yes, he was absolutely right.
克里斯·本德列夫（Chris Benderev）是的，他完全正确。
He-- 100%.
他——100%。
[CHUCKLES] He fully predicted my future.
[笑]他完全预测了我的未来。
These days, Chris is married.
这些天，克里斯结婚了。
One child.
一个孩子。
In fact, my-- the only friends I've made recently are the parents of the other kids who are in my son's daycare.
事实上，我最近结识的唯一朋友是我儿子日托所里其他孩子的父母。
Yeah.
是的。
And in fact, now that you are married and have children, is your life tedious and narrow and boring?
而事实上，现在你已经结婚生子了，你的生活是不是单调、狭窄、无趣？
In some ways, it is.
从某些方面来说，确实如此。
But I like it.
但我喜欢它。
I really like it.
我真的很喜欢它。
[LAUGHTER] I obviously like spending time with my kid and my wife.
[笑声] 我显然喜欢和我的孩子和妻子共度时光。
And the people I made friends with that are the parents of the kids randomly assigned to my kid's daycare class-- yeah, they're delightful.
和我交朋友的人是随机分配到我孩子日托班的孩子的父母——是的，他们很令人愉快。
Today on our program, "If You Want to Destroy My Sweater, Hold This Thread As I Walk Away." We have stories about the things that people say that unravel your world, turn it upside down, shake it like a snow globe-- pick your own metaphor for this.
今天在我们的节目中，“如果你想毁掉我的毛衣，请在我走开时抓住这条线。”我们有一些关于人们所说的故事，这些故事解开了你的世界，把它颠倒过来，像雪球一样摇晃它——为此选择你自己的比喻。
Some of these off-hand things that people say are completely accurate.
人们说的一些即兴说法是完全正确的。
Others are the exact opposite.
其他人则恰恰相反。
And it can be really hard sometimes to tell which is which.
有时真的很难区分哪个是哪个。
We have real-life case examples, including somebody who thinks his life was completely upended after a single, brief, real-life encounter with Weezer.
我们有现实生活中的案例，包括有人认为在现实生活中与威泽有过一次短暂的邂逅后，他的生活就完全被颠覆了。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Act One, The World Has Turned and Left Me Here.
第一幕，世界已经转变，把我留在这里。
So let's kick off this show about people saying things that unravel your picture of the world with this, from Lilly Sullivan.
那么，让我们以莉莉·沙利文 (Lilly Sullivan) 的这首节目开始，讲述人们所说的话，解开你对世界的想象。
In my family, there's a story, the kind your family never forgets.
在我的家里，有一个故事，你的家人永远不会忘记的故事。
It's about a hitchhiker.
这是关于搭便车的人的。
It happened decades ago, in 1974.
这件事发生在几十年前，也就是1974年。
There were three women in the car-- my aunt Manuelita, her daughter, and their cousin.
车里坐着三个女人——我的阿姨曼努埃丽塔、她的女儿和她们的表弟。
Manuelita was driving.
曼努埃丽塔正在开车。
And I was going in my car.
我正开车去。
And then here, I saw him hitchhiking like this.
然后在这里，我看到他这样搭便车。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Lilly Sullivan Manuelita is now 96, and her daughter in the car, Anita, remembers more of the details.
莉莉·沙利文·曼努埃丽塔 (Lilly Sullivan Manuelita) 现年 96 岁，车里的女儿安妮塔 (Anita) 还记得更多细节。
So I'm going to let Anita tell a lot of this.
所以我会让安妮塔讲述很多这方面的事情。
She was a kid at the time, 10 years old.
当时她还是个孩子，10岁。
For me, it was such a shocking event.
对我来说，这是一个非常令人震惊的事件。
It permeated every cell of my being, meaning, like, I just remember it all very clearly.
它渗透到我存在的每一个细胞，这意味着，我只记得非常清楚。
We were in the car.
我们在车里。
My mother was driving, and she was always impeccably dressed if she was going out.
我妈妈开车，她出门时总是穿着得体。
And, um, it was raining that day.
而且，嗯，那天下雨了。
My mother exited the freeway, and she spotted this young man hitchhiking.
我母亲出了高速公路，她发现这个年轻人正在搭便车。
He was tall and lanky, and he had long, blonde, dirty blonde hair-- well, because it was wet.
他又高又瘦，有一头又长又脏的金发——嗯，因为头发是湿的。
It was raining, you know.
那天正在下雨，你知道。
And his beard was just, like, down to his chest.
他的胡子一直垂到胸口。
And he had his shirt inside out and misbuttoned.
他把衬衫翻了个底朝天，扣子也扣错了。
And she said, oh, he has such kind eyes.
她说，哦，他的眼睛真善良。
And I was like, no, he doesn't.
我当时想，不，他没有。
You can't see his eyes.
你看不到他的眼睛。
It's raining.
下雨了。
And she said, no!
她说，不！
I was not afraid of him.
我并不害怕他。
Anita was scared because they were in Northern California, and there were serial killers-- a few of them-- around there in the '70s.
安妮塔很害怕，因为他们在北加州，70 年代那里有连环杀手——其中有几个。
Even at 10, Anita knew this.
即使只有 10 岁，安妮塔也知道这一点。
All three women in the car were small, all under five feet.
车里的三个女人个子都很小，都不到五英尺。
Anita in the front seat, their cousin Cecilia in the back.
安妮塔坐在前排，他们的表弟塞西莉亚坐在后面。
Again, here's Anita.
安妮塔又来了。
And then, of course, I was protesting loudly.
然后，当然，我大声抗议。
Don't stop the car!
别停车！
And Cecilia even said, no, Manuelita, don't do it.
塞西莉亚甚至说，不，曼努埃丽塔，不要这样做。
Don't do it.
不要这样做。
Manuelita stopped anyway.
曼努埃丽塔还是停了下来。
The man came to the window.
男人来到窗前。
And he had to talk through the passenger side window, where I was sitting and kind of, like, freaking out that he was in my face now.
他必须透过乘客侧的窗户说话，我就坐在那儿，有点害怕他现在就在我面前。
Anita remembers sitting stock still, staring straight ahead, afraid to make eye contact as a stranger somehow talked them into letting him into the car.
安妮塔记得一动不动地坐着，直视前方，不敢与陌生人进行目光接触，因为一个陌生人不知怎么说服他们让他上车。
And my mother didn't speak very good English.
而且我妈妈的英语说得不是很好。
Neither did Cecelia.
塞西莉亚也没有。
But guess who did speak Spanish?
但猜猜谁说西班牙语？
Serial killer-looking white guy?
连环杀手长得像白人？
Turns out, fluent in Spanish.
事实证明，西班牙语很流利。
The hitchhiker lumbered into the back seat next to Cecilia.
搭便车的人笨手笨脚地坐进塞西莉亚旁边的后座。
Cecilia had only been in the country a few weeks at that point and was like, what on earth?
那时塞西莉亚才来到这个国家几周，她就想，到底怎么了？
She was 26.
她26岁。
And Cecilia-- she was all dressed prim and proper, and she even had little white gloves on.
还有塞西莉亚——她穿着得体，甚至戴着小白手套。
And he had a booming personality to match a booming voice.
他有着与洪亮的声音相匹配的蓬勃发展的个性。
He had a great voice.
他的声音很好听。
He got in the car, and everybody calmed down when we heard him speak to Cecilia so kindly, and my mother introduced them.
他上了车，当我们听到他如此友善地与塞西莉亚说话时，每个人都平静下来，我母亲介绍了他们。
And she pointed out that she had just come.
她指出她刚刚来。
Cecilia had just come to the US from Peru.
塞西莉亚刚刚从秘鲁来到美国。
And this is how the story started.
故事就是这样开始的。
Their life changed.
他们的生活改变了。
Our lives changed.
我们的生活改变了。
It was like a meteor hitting the earth when we met Brian.
当我们遇见布莱恩时，就像一颗流星撞击地球。
Brian-- that was the hitchhiker's name, which I know because that guy's my dad.
布莱恩——那是搭便车的人的名字，我知道这个名字，因为那人是我爸爸。
Cecilia-- that's my mom.
塞西莉亚——那是我妈妈。
And this story-- it's the story of how our family came to be, their legendary first meeting.
这个故事——这是我们一家人如何诞生的故事，他们传奇般的第一次相遇。
It was followed by a similarly legendary first date.
接下来是同样传奇的第一次约会。
My mom's sister and cousin dressed her up in their own clothes-- white bell bottoms, white platform heels.
我妈妈的姐姐和表弟给她穿上了她们自己的衣服——白色喇叭裤、白色厚底高跟鞋。
My dad showed up in a poncho, and he took her hiking in the redwood forest, where it rained.
我爸爸穿着斗篷出现，他带她在红杉林里徒步旅行，那里下着雨。
He ended up carrying her so that she wouldn't ruin the shoes she'd borrowed.
最后他抱着她，以免她弄坏借来的鞋子。
Two weeks later, they eloped, headed off to Reno, but ended up stopping in a random town nearby, where marriage licenses were $5 cheaper.
两周后，他们私奔，前往里诺，但最终在附近的一个随机小镇停留，那里的结婚证便宜 5 美元。
They got married at 7:00 AM on Christmas Eve.
他们于圣诞节前夕早上 7:00 结婚。
Anita remembers them coming home after with their marriage license.
安妮塔记得他们拿着结婚证回家了。
I can remember even the knock on the door.
我什至还记得敲门声。
And I ran to open it, and there they were, standing there.
我跑去打开它，他们就在那里，站在那里。
I yelled to my mom that they were here, and she came running.
我向妈妈大喊他们来了，她就跑过来了。
Her mom, Manuelita.
她的妈妈，曼努埃丽塔。
Anita She welcomed them in, and I don't know what happened next, but they came back married.
安妮塔她欢迎他们进来，我不知道接下来发生了什么，但他们回来结婚了。
And they loved each other until the end.
他们彼此相爱直到最后。
Wow.
哇。
Yeah.
是的。
That's so cool.
太酷了。
It's like, it's such a good story.
就好像，这是一个很好的故事。
Like I said, legendary.
就像我说的，传奇。
This story is the bedrock foundation of how I see my parents, especially my dad.
这个故事是我如何看待我的父母，尤其是我的父亲的基石。
I picture him at 26, his misbuttoned shirt, catching rides through the West Coast alone.
我想象他 26 岁时，衬衫纽扣扣错了，独自搭车穿过西海岸。
This big white guy from Detroit climbing into this car full of immigrants, just exuberant and thinking, wow, I'm going to marry this lady.
这个来自底特律的白人大个子爬进这辆满是移民的汽车，兴奋地想着，哇，我要娶这位女士。
And a picture of my mom at 26, having just arrived in the country, self-contained, determined, seeing this weirdo and deciding, yes.
还有一张我妈妈 26 岁时的照片，她刚到这个国家，独立自主，意志坚定，看到这个怪人，就决定，是的。
Him.
他。
When you enter the family, this is pretty much the one story we make you memorize.
当你进入这个家庭时，这几乎就是我们让你记住的一个故事。
And then you could be a citizen of the family.
然后你就可以成为这个家庭的公民。
Here's my brother-in-law, Lars.
这是我的妹夫，拉斯。
How many times do you think you've heard this story?
你认为你听过这个故事多少次？
Oh, I don't know.
哦，我不知道。
Many times.
很多次。
50, 100.
50、100。
[CHUCKLES] Many times.
[笑]很多次。
And the meaning of this story has always been clear.
而这个故事的意义一直都很明确。
If they didn't pick him up, we would-- all of us wouldn't be here right now.
如果他们不接他，我们所有人现在都不会在这里。
I wouldn't be here, and you wouldn't be here.
我不会在这里，你也不会在这里。
Your mom wouldn't be here.
你妈妈不会在这里。
And Sammy wouldn't be here.
萨米不会在这里。
Lilly Sullivan Sammy wouldn't be here.
莉莉·沙利文·萨米不会在这里。
Tia Nena wouldn't be here.
蒂亚·尼娜不会在这里。
Marian wouldn't be here.
玛丽安不会在这里。
Wally wouldn't be here.
沃利不会在这里。
Wait, no!
等等，不！
Lilly Sullivan Well, we wouldn't be here to know them.
莉莉·沙利文：好吧，我们不会在这里认识他们。
There's something predestined about it.
这其中有一些注定的事情。
This is such an important story, I thought.
我想，这是一个非常重要的故事。
You know what?
你知道吗？
I want to visit the spot where the meteor struck.
我想去流星撞击的地方看看。
My dad died 10 years ago.
我父亲十年前去世了。
I miss him, always.
我想念他，永远。
And he doesn't have a grave.
而且他没有坟墓。
He insisted on cremation by, quote, "the cheapest means possible."
他坚持用“尽可能最便宜的方式”火葬。
He didn't like fancy things.
他不喜欢花哨的东西。
And I also think that he didn't want to be a burden.
我也认为他不想成为负担。
Anyway, what I want to remember him was not, like, a location I can go to.
无论如何，我想要记住他的地方并不是一个我可以去的地方。
I can't, like, put flowers by a tombstone.
我不能在墓碑旁放花。
So how about this place?
那么这个地方怎么样呢？
This legendary spot where he climbed into a car and our family began.
这个传奇的地方就是他爬上汽车和我们一家人开始的。
So, can't be hard.
所以，不能太难。
So where was it?
那么它在哪里呢？
Anita says it was by the freeway exit by our house.
安妮塔说那是在我们家附近的高速公路出口处。
Manuelita says it was an onramp heading downtown.
曼努埃丽塔说这是通往市中心的入口匝道。
But they're not definitive about it.
但他们对此并不确定。
So I went to the third person in the car that day, my mom.
于是我去找了那天车上的第三个人，我妈妈。
And she says, sure, I know exactly where it was.
她说，当然，我确切地知道它在哪里。
And then she starts to tell me this story.
然后她开始给我讲这个故事。
I remember.
我记得。
What I remember is that we were walking down the street, walking to the car.
我记得我们沿着街道走，走向汽车。
And Brian said, hola.
布莱恩说，你好。
Brian, my dad.
布莱恩，我的爸爸。
Cecilia And Manuelita said, hola, hola.
塞西莉亚和曼努埃丽塔说，你好，你好。
We all say, hola.
我们都说，你好。
Yes.
是的。
He was walking to go to the bus stop.
他正步行去公共汽车站。
The bus stop?
公交车站？
He was taking the bus?
他坐公共汽车？
This is not the story I'd always heard.
这不是我一直听到的故事。
In my mom's version, they weren't in a car.
在我妈妈的版本中，他们不在车里。
She and Manuelita were walking down the street.
她和曼努埃丽塔正走在街上。
They had just left the Jacksons' house.
他们刚刚离开杰克逊家。
The Jacksons were a family where my tia Manuelita worked as a cook.
我的蒂亚·曼努埃丽塔在杰克逊一家当厨师。
She says it was a beautiful day, not raining at all.
她说今天天气很好，没有下雨。
And most importantly, dad wasn't hitchhiking.
最重要的是，爸爸没有搭便车。
Was he, like, holding up a sign or something, saying he wanted a ride?
他是不是举着牌子什么的，说他想搭车？
No. Lilly Sullivan Because the story has always been hitchhiking.
不，Lilly Sullivan 因为这个故事一直都是搭便车的。
No. Lilly Sullivan Wait, Mom, but your story and Anita's story is completely different.
不。Lilly Sullivan 等等，妈妈，但你的故事和安妮塔的故事完全不同。
She remembers it clearly.
她记得很清楚。
But then why does she remember this other story?
但为什么她会记得另一个故事呢？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Lilly Sullivan From my mom's point of view, this is especially mysterious because she's quite certain that Anita wasn't there.
莉莉·沙利文：从我妈妈的角度来看，这尤其神秘，因为她非常确定安妮塔不在那里。
Not in a car, not on the street.
不在车里，不在街上。
Not there for this moment at all.
此刻根本不在那儿。
I don't think Anita was.
我不认为安妮塔是。
Lilly Sullivan Anita remembers it.
莉莉·沙利文·安妮塔记得这件事。
OK, OK.
好的，好的。
This kind of knocked me over.
这让我很震惊。
The hitchhiking story, as I've said, is the origin story of my family.
正如我所说，搭便车的故事是我家庭的起源故事。
My mom's had a private version of it for 50 years that she's kept herself during the many, many conversations where we tell it?
我妈妈有一个它的私人版本 50 年了，在我们讲述它的无数次谈话中，她一直保留着它？
When my dad died 10 years ago, we wrote about this story in his obituary.
十年前我父亲去世时，我们在他的讣告中写下了这个故事。
Like, printed it in our local newspaper.
就像，把它印在我们当地的报纸上。
We ran that obituary by my mom.
我们刊登了我妈妈的讣告。
She didn't think it was worth correcting?
她觉得不值得纠正吗？
Dad was the memory keeper of our family, a big-hearted, big-brained guy who held on to everything that happened.
爸爸是我们家的记忆守护者，一个心胸宽广、头脑宽广的人，他牢牢记住发生的一切。
Who had chicken pox first as a kid?
小时候谁先得水痘？
Natalie, he'd say.
娜塔莉，他会说。
What was the name of that iguana that we had that died?
我们死去的那只鬣蜥叫什么名字？
Mari-iguana, he'd say.
马鬣蜥，他会说。
He would absolutely know exactly where this happened.
他绝对清楚这件事发生在哪里。
And the thought that he's not here to tell us-- it makes him feel so gone, like we had a favorite photo of him, and we have no idea where it is anymore.
一想到他不会来这里告诉我们——这让他感觉自己已经消失了，就像我们有一张他最喜欢的照片，但我们不知道它在哪里了。
When my dad died, it was sudden, and it devastated me.
我父亲的去世很突然，让我很伤心。
As time passes, we've lost so much of him.
随着时间的流逝，我们已经失去了他很多。
His clothes have lost his smell of wool and sawdust and too much Tide laundry detergent.
他的衣服失去了羊毛和锯末的味道，也失去了太多汰渍洗衣粉的味道。
And this, it was like losing a big piece of him again, because in his absence and in our negligence, we simply forgot to remember.
这就像再次失去了他的一大块，因为在他不在的情况下，在我们的疏忽下，我们只是忘记了记住。
Unforgivable.
不可原谅。
I had to fix this.
我必须解决这个问题。
I had to get to the truth.
我必须了解真相。
I forced the three of them-- Manuelita, Anita, and my mom-- to sit down together to try to work this out, come to some agreement about what happened and where.
我强迫他们三个——曼努埃丽塔、安妮塔和我妈妈——坐下来试图解决这个问题，就发生的事情和地点达成一些共识。
Anita is stunned to hear that my mom and Manuelita don't think she was in the car.
安妮塔很惊讶地听到我妈妈和曼努埃丽塔认为她不在车里。
So yeah, my story is not going to change.
所以是的，我的故事不会改变。
I was in the car.
我当时在车里。
I was in the front seat.
我当时坐在前排座位上。
You were in the back seat.
你当时坐在后座。
Mom turns to me.
妈妈转向我。
Cecilia I don't remember never Anita being around.
塞西莉亚 我不记得安妮塔从来没有在身边。
She tells the others they weren't even in a car.
她告诉其他人他们甚至不在车里。
But Manuelita, you remember him hitchhiking, and you were driving, and you pulled over, right?
但是曼努埃丽塔，你记得他搭便车，你开车，然后你把车停在路边，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Of course.
当然。
That's why I picked him up.
这就是我接他的原因。
She remembers walking, that you all were walking.
她记得走路，你们都在走路。
No, we were not walking.
不，我们没有走路。
Oh, yeah, I was driving.
哦，是的，我当时正在开车。
Yeah, I was driving.
是的，我当时正在开车。
Yeah, hitchhiking.
是的，搭便车。
He was hitchhiking.
他正在搭便车。
This went nowhere.
这毫无进展。
And the fact that we've been telling this hitchhiking story for 50 years and my mom's never mentioned that she thinks it's complete bullshit?
事实上，我们已经讲了这个搭便车的故事 50 年了，而我妈妈从来没有提到过，她认为这完全是胡说八道？
I have to say, that's very much like my mom.
我不得不说，这太像我妈妈了。
She's eminently capable of keeping her thoughts and feelings to herself.
她非常有能力保守自己的想法和感受。
She has feelings, obviously.
显然，她是有感情的。
But she shows love in concrete ways.
但她以具体的方式表达爱。
An unasked-for plate of fruit, a bowl of soup.
一盘不请自来的水果，一碗汤。
She'd give me her kidney or hide a body for me, no questions asked.
她会把她的肾脏给我，或者为我隐藏尸体，不问任何问题。
But sitting around gabbing about feelings-- not her thing.
但坐在一起闲聊感情——不是她的事。
She finds that trying.
她觉得这很尝试。
She'll either roll her eyes or blurt out something explosive and walk away or clam up.
她要么翻白眼，要么脱口而出一些爆炸性的话，然后走开，或者闭嘴。
Here's us in the car.
这是我们在车里。
Mom, so, but-- but-- I just-- is it interesting to you that you have one memory and other people have a different memory?
妈妈，那么，但是——但是——我只是——你有一种记忆而其他人有不同的记忆，这对你来说有趣吗？
Is it interesting?
有趣吗？
I know, I know, but is it interesting?
我知道，我知道，但这有趣吗？
I want to talk about the feelings of it.
我想谈谈其中的感受。
Yeah, but what's it-- what's it like?
是的，但是它是什么——它是什么样的？
How do you feel?
你感觉如何？
Nothing.
没有什么。
It's OK.
没关系。
[VEHICLE HONKING] Ay, ay, ay.
[汽车鸣笛] 哎，哎，哎。
She gets impatient.
她变得不耐烦。
She dodges.
她躲开了。
In response, I get impatient with her, about everything.
作为回应，我对她的一切都变得不耐烦。
I compulsively nitpick everything she does.
我强迫性地挑剔她所做的一切。
Can you put your bag in back?
你能把包放在后面吗？
Because of the noise.
因为噪音。
It's too much noise.
噪音太大了。
Yeah.
是的。
Lilly Sullivan Rustling that bag makes noise that gets on the mic, I tell her.
我告诉莉莉·沙利文，那个包发出沙沙的声音，传到麦克风里。
So does her beaded necklace.
她的串珠项链也是如此。
Yeah.
是的。
[SPEAKS SPANISH] Lilly Sullivan Rather than engage with me, she whips out her little pot of Mary Kay cold cream and starts stabbing it on her cheeks and forehead.
[说西班牙语] 莉莉·沙利文 (Lilly Sullivan) 没有和我互动，而是拿出一小罐玫琳凯冷霜，开始把它涂在脸颊和额头上。
Put some cream on my face.
在我脸上抹点霜。
[SPEAKS SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
Mom, let's focus.
妈妈，我们集中注意力吧。
Cecilia OK.
塞西莉亚 好的。
I'm not going to-- OK.
我不会——好吧。
Can you just put the cream on after we go?
我们走后你可以涂上奶油吗？
It's OK.
没关系。
Let's go now.
我们现在就走吧。
Lilly Sullivan You can't be messing with it as we drive.
莉莉·沙利文：我们开车的时候你不能乱搞它。
OK.
好的。
Lilly Sullivan I'm a nightmare.
莉莉·沙利文 我是一场噩梦。
She lets it go.
她放手了。
She's a good mom.
她是一个好妈妈。
Of course, the day my parents met, there was one other person there-- my dad.
当然，我父母见面的那天，还有另一个人在场——我的爸爸。
I'd interviewed him in 2010, years before he died, before he even got sick.
2010 年，我采访了他，那是他去世前的几年，甚至在他生病之前。
I've never been able to bring myself to listen to that recording.
我一直无法让自己听那段录音。
Just too hard.
就是太难了。
So I had no memory of what we'd talked about that day.
所以我不记得那天我们聊了什么。
But I had a hunch that if I'd done an interview with him, I would have asked him to tell me this story.
但我有一种预感，如果我接受他的采访，我会让他告诉我这个故事。
I had no idea where this interview was, but I'd given him a copy, and I knew he would have kept it.
我不知道这篇采访在哪里，但我给了他一份副本，我知道他会保留它。
The week I talked to my mom, I spent hours digging through old file cabinets and boxes in the garage.
在我和妈妈谈话的那一周，我花了几个小时在车库里翻找旧文件柜和盒子。
I finally found it one night at 2:00 AM.
一天晚上凌晨 2:00 我终于找到了它。
I threw on all the lights, ran into bed, and listened immediately.
我打开所有的灯，跑到床上，立即听着。
I was hitchhiking on Rio Del Mar Boulevard.
我在里约德尔马大道搭便车。
And Manuelita picked me up, and I believe Anita was in the car, too.
曼努埃丽塔来接我，我相信安妮塔也在车里。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Of course he has all the answers.
他当然知道所有的答案。
Anita said, no, don't-- don't even think of stopping for this guy.
安妮塔说，不，不要——别想为这个家伙停下来。
And Manuelita said, he's cute!
曼努埃丽塔说，他很可爱！
And, uh-- and that's how I met your mom.
而且，呃——我就是这样认识你妈妈的。
Huge.
巨大的。
A Lincoln Continental.
林肯大陆。
[CHUCKLES] Yeah, it was-- I mean, it was like a Star Wars machine, you know.
[笑]是的，它是——我的意思是，它就像一台星球大战机器，你知道。
The front of it went by, and then five minutes later, the rear of it went by.
前面过去了，五分钟后，后面也过去了。
It was huge.
它是巨大的。
Biggest car in the world.
世界上最大的汽车。
Manuelita, the smallest person in the world, is driving it.
驾驶这辆车的是世界上最小的人曼努埃丽塔。
[LAUGHTER] Lilly Sullivan Um, and what did you think when you got in the car?
[笑声] Lilly Sullivan 嗯，当你上车时你想什么？
I said, um, she's a cutie.
我说，嗯，她是个可爱的人。
Lilly Sullivan That's the first thing you thought when you got in the car?
Lilly Sullivan：这是你上车时想到的第一件事？
Of course.
当然。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Lilly Sullivan You weren't like, who are these tiny ladies picking up a huge-- [LAUGHS] like-- [LAUGHS]
莉莉·沙利文（Lilly Sullivan）你不像，这些小女士们是谁，拿起了一个巨大的-[笑]就像--[笑]
I-- I didn't know.
我——我不知道。
I didn't know what I was getting into.
我不知道自己陷入了什么境地。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Brian Well, you know your mom.
布莱恩 好吧，你了解你的妈妈。
She's nothing if not self-confident.
如果不自信，她什么都不是。
Yeah.
是的。
She's smart.
她很聪明。
Yeah, she's really smart.
是的，她真的很聪明。
Really smart.
真的很聪明。
So they picked you up on Rio Del Mar.
所以他们在里约德尔马接了你。
In front of what?
在什么前面？
Like, what would be there today?
比如，今天会有什么？
Same.
相同的。
It hasn't changed.
它没有改变。
Rio Del Mar.
里奥德尔马。
And right by that bridge-- you know the bridge on Rio Del Mar Boulevard?
就在那座桥旁边——你知道里约德尔马大道上的那座桥吗？
The one by, like-- Brian The little bridge that goes across that little ravine there.
旁边的一座，就像——布莱恩 横跨那条小峡谷的小桥。
Oh, right there?
哦，就在那里？
Brian Yeah, right there.
布莱恩 是的，就在那里。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
And so then what happened in the car?
那么车里到底发生了什么？
When did you get out?
你什么时候出去的？
They invited me over to dinner.
他们邀请我去吃晚饭。
Manuelita did.
曼努埃丽塔做到了。
So I went over to dinner.
于是我就去吃晚饭了。
Anita was against this.
安妮塔对此表示反对。
Brian Very much against this.
布莱恩非常反对这一点。
Either that or Manuelita asked us both-- I think Manuelita asked us both out.
要么是曼努埃丽塔约了我们俩——我想曼努埃丽塔约我们俩出去了。
She said, when are you-- when are you coming to take her out?
她说，你什么时候、什么时候带她出去？
Something like that.
类似的事情。
[LAUGHTER] Lilly Sullivan What did you say?
[笑声] 莉莉·沙利文 你说什么？
I said, oh, I don't know.
我说，哦，我不知道。
Tomorrow?
明天？
She goes, OK.
她走了，好吧。
This recording is from 14 years ago.
这段录音是14年前的。
I haven't really heard his voice in 10 years, since he died.
自从他去世后，我已经有十年没有真正听到过他的声音了。
I hadn't forgotten, but I sort of had forgotten, how much fun we had just talking to each other.
我没有忘记，但我有点忘记了，我们彼此交谈是多么有趣。
And my dad told the same story as Anita and Manuelita.
我父亲也讲述了与安妮塔和曼努埃丽塔相同的故事。
This story my dad tells about their meeting was not news to my mom.
我爸爸讲述的关于他们见面的故事对我妈妈来说并不新鲜。
She says, yeah, we always disagreed about that.
她说，是的，我们对此一直意见不一。
Of course he said that.
他当然这么说。
He's got it wrong.
他搞错了。
Always has.
一直都有。
I remember we argued a lot when we told people how we met.
我记得当我们告诉别人我们是如何认识的时候，我们争论了很多。
People laughed because he wants to say one thing, I want to say another thing.
人们笑是因为他想说一件事，我想说另一件事。
I thought a lot about why my mom prefers her version, where he's walking to a bus stop and not hitchhiking.
我想了很多为什么我妈妈更喜欢她的版本，他步行去公交车站而不是搭便车。
And the main thing I keep thinking about is, in my dad's version, my mom's people make the first move.
我一直在想的主要事情是，在我父亲的版本中，我母亲的人迈出了第一步。
Their meeting is kind of random, a split-second fluke.
他们的相遇有点随机，只是瞬间的侥幸。
But in the version my mom likes, everyone's on foot, on this rainless, beautiful day, and my dad sees them and approaches.
但在我妈妈喜欢的版本中，每个人都在步行，在这个无雨的美好日子里，我爸爸看到他们并走近。
He makes the first move, which is maybe more romantic.
他迈出了第一步，这也许更浪漫。
Everyone wants to be chosen.
每个人都希望被选择。
I run my hypothesis by her.
我根据她的说法进行了我的假设。
She kind of blinks at me blankly, slightly impatient.
她茫然地向我眨着眼睛，有点不耐烦。
Nothing.
没有什么。
The day after I found that interview with my dad, I woke up early.
在我发现对我父亲的采访的第二天，我很早就醒了。
And the mismatched memories-- it all started clicking together.
那些不匹配的记忆——一切都开始和谐地结合在一起。
OK, this is just me in my room.
好吧，这就是我在我的房间里。
It's Wednesday.
今天是星期三。
[CLEARS THROAT] Last night, I listened to that recording, and Dad said it was in Rio Del Mar, right by the bridge.
[清嗓子]昨晚，我听了那个录音，爸爸说那是在里约德尔马，就在桥边。
So I think-- I think I just figured it out.
所以我想——我想我刚刚想通了。
I think their car was parked on the street a little ways from the Jacksons' house, and they had to walk to the car from the house.
我认为他们的车停在离杰克逊家不远的街上，他们不得不从房子步行到车旁。
So my mom remembers that walk.
所以我妈妈记得那次散步。
And then they got in and had just started driving when they hit that bridge and saw my dad.
然后他们上了车，刚开始开车就撞到了那座桥，看到了我爸爸。
That's, like, a block away from the Jacksons'.
那距离杰克逊一家只有一个街区。
No time at all.
根本没有时间。
Easy for my mom to forget.
我妈妈很容易忘记。
And there he stood, not at a bus stop, but hitchhiking.
他站在那里，不是在公共汽车站，而是在搭便车。
OK, here's me explaining my theory to my mom.
好吧，这是我向妈妈解释我的理论。
And you had barely gotten in the car.
而你刚刚上车。
You went around the corner, and Dad was right there.
你走到拐角处，爸爸就在那里。
Maybe.
或许。
Because what Dad said-- and Dad has a really good memory, you know.
因为爸爸说的话——而且爸爸的记忆力非常好，你知道。
Oh, yeah, I know.
哦，是的，我知道。
[LAUGHS] Lilly Sullivan But what I think might have happened is-- Mom, your feet.
[笑] Lilly Sullivan 但我认为可能发生的是——妈妈，你的脚。
Can you stop?
你能停下来吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Lilly Sullivan I think you guys might have just gotten in the car, barely driven, and then he was right there.
莉莉·沙利文（Lilly Sullivan）我想你们可能刚刚上车，几乎没有开车，然后他就在那里。
Yeah, I think so.
是的，我想是的。
I think that's what it is.
我想就是这样。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I think it sounds right.
我觉得听起来不错。
Yeah, that's how I remember.
是的，我就是这样记得的。
Not much driving.
开车不多。
Yeah.
是的。
Do you want to go drive and see where he said?
你想开车去看看他说的地方吗？
Let's go look at--
我们去看看——
Sure.
当然。
[SPEAKS SPANISH] We are close by.
[说西班牙语]我们就在附近。
Yeah.
是的。
We drive to the spot my dad said.
我们开车去我爸爸说的地方。
You remember.
你记得。
Rio Del Mar and right by that bridge.
里约德尔马 (Rio Del Mar) 就在那座桥旁边。
The little bridge that goes across that little ravine.
这座小桥横跨那条小峡谷。
The Jackson house is maybe a minute away, around the corner.
杰克逊故居距离酒店大约一分钟路程，就在拐角处。
There are trees everywhere, an intersection between residential blocks.
到处都是树木，是住宅区之间的交叉点。
Not much around, except for--
周围没什么，除了——
She had been talking about this bus stop the whole time, and I didn't believe her.
她一直在谈论这个公交车站，我不相信她。
Mom, it's the bus stop!
妈妈，这是公交车站！
The one you've been talking about.
就是你一直在谈论的那个。
Yeah.
是的。
But he was walking to the bus stop.
但他正在步行去公共汽车站。
I think this is it, Mom.
我想就是这样了，妈妈。
Cecilia Oh, I'm so glad.
塞西莉亚 哦，我很高兴。
Yeah.
是的。
I knew this road like the back of my hand, and I'd never seen a bus stop there.
我对这条路了如指掌，而且我从来没有见过那里有公共汽车站。
But here it was, tucked under some trees, just a sign and a little bench.
但它就在这里，藏在一些树下，只有一个标志和一张小长凳。
Mom, good job.
妈妈，干得好。
[LAUGHS] Cecilia Well, the past memory never goes away, they say.
[笑]塞西莉亚 嗯，他们说，过去的记忆永远不会消失。
I'm so relieved.
我很放心。
Cecilia [LAUGHS] Yeah.
塞西莉亚[笑]是的。
Very close.
非常接近。
Everything is so close.
一切都是如此接近。
We found the bus stop.
我们找到了公交车站。
[SIGHS] Wow.
[叹气]哇。
This was it, what I'd wanted to find, the place our family began, a bus stop I'd driven past a million times.
这就是我想要找到的，我们家庭开始的地方，一个我开车经过一百万次的公共汽车站。
Not the fanciest spot in the world, but pretty, a place you wouldn't mind visiting again.
不是世界上最奇特的地方，但很漂亮，是一个你不会介意再次访问的地方。
My mom said next time I'm in town, we should go sit at that bus stop, bring champagne, toast my dad.
我妈妈说下次我进城时，我们应该去那个公交车站坐，带上香槟，为我爸爸干杯。
Probably get a ticket, she said.
可能会买票，她说。
But to hell with it.
但见鬼去吧。
Part of what made this whole project a little weird for me was this thing that I've mentioned a few times, that my mom doesn't really like discussing feelings.
让整个项目对我来说有点奇怪的部分原因是我多次提到的一件事，我妈妈不太喜欢讨论感情。
But I learned something, talking to my sister Kim about all this stuff, that driving home, I really wanted to tell my mom.
但我学到了一些东西，和我姐姐金谈论所有这些事情，开车回家，我真的很想告诉我妈妈。
Do you know that when he was sick, Manuelita came to the house and she was sitting with him.
你知道吗，当他生病的时候，曼努埃丽塔来到了家里，她坐在他身边。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Lilly Sullivan And, um-- and he was sick, you know.
莉莉·沙利文：嗯，他病了，你知道。
He was just lying down and not really talking that much at that point.
那时他只是躺着，并没有说太多话。
But he did say to her, he said, Manuelita, thank you for my life.
但他确实对她说，曼努埃丽塔，谢谢你给了我生命。
He said-- I don't remember.
他说——我不记得了。
I think he said something, yeah.
我想他说了些什么，是的。
What, um-- what does it feel like to hear that he said that?
什么，呃——听到他这么说有什么感觉？
It's nice.
很好。
Lilly Sullivan Tell me more.
莉莉·沙利文 告诉我更多。
Tell me more about what it feels like.
告诉我更多关于它的感觉。
If I had known that he was going to die so fast, so soon.
如果我早知道他会死得这么快、这么快就好了。
Well, I think, when I hear that story, it's kind of beautiful to me, because he loved his life so much.
嗯，我想，当我听到这个故事时，对我来说有点美丽，因为他非常热爱他的生活。
He loved it, yeah.
他喜欢它，是的。
Lilly Sullivan And he loved his family, and he loved you.
莉莉·沙利文 他爱他的家人，也爱你。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
He said thanks to me, too.
他也对我说谢谢。
And you know, we're not perfect, but we can forgive if we have hurt-- if we-- when he was dying.
你知道，我们并不完美，但如果我们在他临终时受到了伤害，我们可以原谅。
I brought up my dad's last days, and my mom's mind went straight to their last night together.
我提起父亲最后的日子，母亲的思绪直接回想起他们在一起的最后一晚。
Cut to the heart of her grief, to this moment when he was dying and they forgave each other for their hurts.
切入她悲伤的心，直到他临死的那一刻，他们原谅了彼此的伤害。
We've never talked about this.
我们从来没有谈论过这个。
My mom never talks like this.
我妈妈从来不这样说话。
You know, he said, the number one thing-- that everything was in order, and I forgive him, whatever he did.
你知道，他说，最重要的是——一切都井然有序，我原谅他，无论他做了什么。
Because we're not perfect, and he forgave me, too, whatever I did.
因为我们并不完美，而且无论我做了什么，他也原谅了我。
So we talked in the room, you know, at the end?
所以我们最后在房间里谈了，你知道吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Cecilia And then we hugged, and I'm so glad we sleep together the last night.
塞西莉亚：然后我们拥抱了，我很高兴我们昨晚睡在一起。
But I was so afraid to touch him.
但我很害怕碰他。
I didn't want to hurt him.
我不想伤害他。
So I just touched his legs and his feet, and he slept the whole night.
于是我就摸了摸他的腿和脚，他就睡了一整夜。
No problem.
没问题。
Mom didn't stop there.
妈妈并没有就此止步。
She told me something else.
她还告诉了我一些别的事情。
When I was nine, my parents hit a rough patch in their relationship and decided to separate.
当我九岁的时候，我的父母的关系出现了困难并决定分居。
After a few months, they got back together.
几个月后，他们又复合了。
I never really knew how or why.
我从来不知道如何或为什么。
We didn't like to speak about that time in my family.
我们不想谈论我家里的那段时光。
But as I was talking to my mom about all this, she brought it up.
但当我和妈妈谈论这一切时，她提起了这件事。
You want to know the real hitchhiking story, she said.
“你想知道真正的搭便车故事，”她说。
And she told me that during the time they were separated, one day, she was driving down the street, and she saw my dad was walking.
她告诉我，在他们分开的那段时间里，有一天，她开车在街上，看到我爸爸正在走路。
And as she approached him on the road, he saw it was her in her Volvo, and he threw his thumb in the air.
当她在路上走近他时，他看到开着沃尔沃的就是她，他竖起了大拇指。
Cool joke, huh?
很酷的笑话吧？
So she stopped, picked him up.
于是她停下来，把他抱了起来。
A couple of days later, they got back together.
几天后，他们又复合了。
That's the important story, she said.
这是重要的故事，她说。
After that, my parents stayed married another 20 years.
此后，我父母的婚姻又维持了20年。
During that time, they had a blast together, sometimes inseparable.
那段时间，他们在一起玩得很开心，有时形影不离。
The best time of their marriage, my mom tells me, after they returned to that root moment where everything started.
我妈妈告诉我，在他们回到一切开始的根源时刻之后，这是他们婚姻中最美好的时光。
Only this time, it wasn't random chance.
只是这一次，并不是偶然。
It was his choice to flag her down and hers to scoop him up.
他选择拦住她，而她则选择把他抱起来。
Lilly Sullivan is a producer on our show.
莉莉·沙利文是我们节目的制片人。
Special thanks to Lilly's sisters.
特别感谢莉莉的姐妹们。
This song is one of their dad's favorites.
这首歌是他们父亲最喜欢的歌曲之一。
He used to play it for them on the piano when they were growing up.
当他们长大的时候，他经常在钢琴上为他们弹奏这首歌。
["YOU AIN'T GOIN' NOWHERE" BY BOB DYLAN]
[鲍勃·迪伦的《你哪儿也去不了》]
Coming up, one badly tuned instrument on one song at one concert can change your life.
接下来，在一场音乐会上用一种调音不当的乐器演奏一首歌曲可能会改变你的生活。
That's in a minute, on Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
一会儿之后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program-- "If You Want to Destroy My Sweater, Hold This Thread As I Walk Away." We have stories about small moments between people that suddenly change how everything looks.
今天的节目——“如果你想毁掉我的毛衣，请在我走开时抓住这根线。”我们有关于人与人之间突然改变一切的小瞬间的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, What's With These Homies Dissing My Girl?
第二幕，这些兄弟嘲笑我的女孩是怎么回事？
In his early 20s, Mike Comite wanted to be a professional musician.
20 岁出头时，迈克·科米特 (Mike Comite) 想成为一名职业音乐家。
He was trying his absolute hardest to make that happen, until one day, it all came undone-- weirdly, right in front of Weezer.
他尽了最大努力来实现这一目标，直到有一天，这一切都化为泡影——奇怪的是，就在维泽面前。
Mike tells what happened.
迈克讲述了发生的事情。
There's this video.
有这个视频。
I've watched it more times than I'd like to admit in the last decade and a half, kind of like a retired football player watching old game tapes from his glory days, who pauses and rewinds that one play where he tore his ACL over and over to see where his career went sideways.
在过去的十五年里，我看过它的次数比我愿意承认的要多，有点像一位退休的足球运动员观看他辉煌时期的旧比赛录像，他暂停并回放他一遍又一遍撕裂前十字韧带的比赛，看看他的职业生涯走向了何方。
It happened at Bonnaroo, this music festival with some of the biggest acts in the world.
这件事发生在博纳罗音乐节上，这个音乐节上有一些世界上最盛大的表演。
That year, Dave Matthews Band and Jay-Z were playing.
那一年，戴夫·马修斯乐队 (Dave Matthews Band) 和 Jay-Z 正在演奏。
It was 2010.
那是2010年。
The band I was in was invited to play on one of the medium-sized stages, which was a huge deal for us.
我所在的乐队受邀在一个中等规模的舞台上演出，这对我们来说是一件大事。
There'd be over 2,000 people watching.
届时将有超过2000人观看。
It'd be the biggest stage we'd ever played on.
这将是我们演出过的最大的舞台。
But then, I saw that Weezer was also playing Bonnaroo.
但后来，我看到维泽也在扮演博纳罗。
It felt like some kind of fated opportunity.
这感觉像是某种命中注定的机会。
We were actually covering a Weezer song in our set, and so I had this big idea.
实际上，我们在演出中翻唱了一首 Weezer 的歌曲，所以我有了这个伟大的想法。
Our front person, Julia, was a musician who had blown up on YouTube.
我们的主唱 Julia 是一位在 YouTube 上红极一时的音乐家。
She had thousands of followers on social media.
她在社交媒体上拥有数千名粉丝。
What if we got them all to tweet at Weezer's lead singer, Rivers Cuomo, to see if he'd come sing with us?
如果我们让他们都向威泽的主唱里弗斯·科莫发推文，看看他是否会和我们一起唱歌，会怎么样？
I asked Julia, and she was game for it, and shockingly, it worked, better than we could have hoped.
我问朱莉娅，她很乐意这样做，令人震惊的是，它奏效了，比我们希望的还要好。
Rivers didn't come sing with us.
里弗斯没有和我们一起唱歌。
Instead, he invited Julia to come play her ukulele and sing with Weezer during one of their songs on the main stage.
相反，他邀请朱莉娅来弹奏尤克里里琴，并在主舞台上与维泽一起演唱一首歌曲。
Julia's visibility at Bonnaroo would be multiplied tenfold.
朱莉娅在博纳罗的知名度将成倍增加。
If this went well, who knows where it could lead?
如果进展顺利，谁知道会走向何方？
Maybe Weezer would bring us on tour with them as their opener.
也许威泽会带我们和他们一起巡演，作为他们的揭幕战。
Our agent immediately submitted us to their team for some of their upcoming shows.
我们的经纪人立即将我们提交给他们的团队，参加他们即将举行的一些演出。
Or maybe Rivers would write a song with Julia, play on our record, or she'd play on theirs.
或者里弗斯可能会和朱莉娅一起写一首歌曲，在我们的唱片上播放，或者她会在他们的唱片上播放。
The possibilities kept me up at night.
这些可能性让我彻夜难眠。
I was 22.
那年我22岁。
I'd only been playing music professionally for a year at that point.
那时我才专业演奏音乐一年。
But I was convinced this would be the moment that would transform our careers.
但我坚信这将是改变我们职业生涯的时刻。
The day of the show, Julia split off from our group to rehearse with Weezer on their tour bus.
演出当天，朱莉娅与我们的团队分开，在他们的旅游巴士上与威泽一起排练。
I felt a little sting finding out I wasn't going to meet them, too.
当我发现我也不会见到他们时，我感到有点刺痛。
Weezer went on a little before sunset.
威泽在日落前继续前行。
Me and the rest of the band sat way back in the crowd on some bleachers, while Julia was somewhere backstage.
我和乐队的其他成员坐在人群后面的露天看台上，而朱莉娅则在后台的某个地方。
There had to be at least 20,000 people between us and Weezer.
我们和威泽之间至少有两万人。
I couldn't believe that a dumb idea I'd cooked up in rehearsal had led to this.
我不敢相信我在排练时想出的一个愚蠢的想法导致了这一切。
The song Julia was going to play on was called "Tripping Down the Freeway." Weezer started it a few songs into their set.
朱莉娅要演奏的歌曲名叫“Tripping Down the Freeway”。韦泽在他们的演出中开始了几首歌。
Here's a new song called, "Tripping Down the Freeway."
这是一首新歌，名为“Tripping Down the Freeway”。
Julia is off stage for the first half of the song.
歌曲前半部分朱莉娅不在舞台上。
But after the guitar solo, Rivers brings the band down to a vamp and has Julia come out kind of dramatically.
但在吉他独奏之后，里弗斯让乐队陷入了困境，并让朱莉娅戏剧性地表现出来。
All right.
好的。
We're going to bring out a special guest now!
我们现在要请一位特别嘉宾来！
Bonnaroo, this is Julia Nunes on ukulele.
Bonnaroo，我是尤克里里琴上的朱莉娅·努内斯 (Julia Nunes)。
Julia walks on stage, strumming her uke, but something sounds off.
朱莉娅走上舞台，弹着尤克琴，但听起来有些不对劲。
Are we in the right tuning?
我们的调整正确吗？
Mike Comite They are not in the right tuning.
Mike Comite 他们的调音不正确。
She's in a different key.
她用的是不同的调。
For a split second, I'm convinced I'm having a nightmare.
有那么一瞬间，我确信我正在做一场噩梦。
I try telling myself to wake up.
我试着告诉自己醒来。
She's got this amazing tuner on her ukulele.
她的尤克里里琴上有一个很棒的调音器。
We'll get it straightened out right now.
我们现在就解决这个问题。
Nope.
没有。
Weezer is still on stage, having a conversation mid-song about Julia's tuning through the PA system.
威泽仍在舞台上，在歌曲中途谈论朱莉娅通过扩音系统进行的调音。
Rivers pivots.
河流转动。
All right.
好的。
I'm going to tell a little story while you tune your ukulele.
当你给尤克里里调音的时候我会讲一个小故事。
He turns to the crowd and starts talking about how Julia had ended up on stage with him that day, about Twitter, about Julia's fans.
他转向人群，开始谈论朱莉娅那天如何与他一起登上舞台，谈论推特，谈论朱莉娅的粉丝。
They started to hit me up, saying, hey, dawwwg, Julia's an amazing singer and ukuleleist.
他们开始跟我打招呼，说，嘿，天啊，朱莉娅是一位了不起的歌手和尤克里里琴演奏家。
Most of the time, she even knows what key the song is in, so why don't you guys have her up?
大多数时候，她甚至知道这首歌的调，所以你们为什么不让她起来呢？
He's making fun of her?
他在取笑她吗？
I start clenching my jaw from the stands.
我在看台上开始咬紧牙关。
I said, I don't know, man!
我说，我不知道，伙计！
This is Weezer.
这是维泽。
This is a professional act.
这是一种职业行为。
We demand perfection.
我们要求完美。
And Julia's fans said, trust us, dawg.
朱莉娅的粉丝说，相信我们，老兄。
Julia's the bomb!
朱莉娅是炸弹！
I'm mortified.
我很羞愧。
I can't believe how mean he's being to her.
我不敢相信他对她有多刻薄。
Just so passive-aggressive.
就是这么被动攻击。
At this point, our crew member who's been sitting next to me, excitedly filming Julia's big moment, quietly stops recording and puts down her camera.
此时，坐在我旁边兴奋地拍摄朱莉娅重要时刻的工作人员悄悄停止了录制并放下了相机。
This isn't her video.
这不是她的视频。
Someone else posted this one on YouTube.
其他人在 YouTube 上发布了此内容。
I couldn't help thinking, I'd been the one to suggest she do this in the first place.
我忍不住想，我是第一个建议她这样做的人。
This was on me.
这是我的事。
After an excruciating 62 seconds of improv, Rivers wanders across the stage to where Julia is trying to retune with another band member.
经过长达 62 秒的即兴表演后，里弗斯漫步穿过舞台，来到朱莉娅正试图与另一位乐队成员重新调音的地方。
I'm just going to sing.
我只是要唱歌。
Mike Comite I'm just going to sing, she says.
迈克·科米特（Mike Comite）我只想唱歌，她说。
All right.
好的。
She's just going to sing.
她只是要唱歌。
Check your mic.
检查你的麦克风。
Yeah!
是的！
Rivers Cuomo All right, give us the bass line, Scott.
里弗斯·科莫 好吧，请给我们低音线，斯科特。
Rivers counts off and starts singing, and Julia jumps in.
里弗斯倒数并开始唱歌，朱莉娅也加入进来。
1, 2, 3.
1、2、3。
(SINGING) No way.
（唱）不可能。
We ain't going to break up.
我们不会分手。
We made a promise, and our will won't fade out.
我们曾许下诺言，我们的意志不会消失。
Julia looks so small from where we're sitting.
从我们坐的地方看，朱莉娅显得很小。
But I can tell she's holding her ukulele by her side as she sings.
但我可以看出她唱歌时把尤克里里放在身边。
They finish the song.
他们完成了这首歌。
Rivers thanks Julia, and she walks off the stage.
里弗斯感谢朱莉娅，然后她走下了舞台。
I'm sitting in the bleachers, shocked by what just happened.
我坐在看台上，对刚刚发生的事情感到震惊。
Weezer keeps playing a bunch of my favorite songs, and I can't enjoy them.
威泽一直在播放一堆我最喜欢的歌曲，但我却无法欣赏它们。
Give me the guitar, my man.
把吉他给我吧，伙计。
Mike Comite The next day, Rivers tweeted at Julia and thanked her for playing despite the mishap.
第二天，里弗斯在推特上向朱莉娅表示感谢，感谢她尽管发生了事故，仍然坚持比赛。
A few weeks later, Weezer's manager officially turned us down for the opening spot on tour.
几周后，维泽的经理正式拒绝了我们作为巡演的首发位置。
In the music business, you need some moment to pull you out of obscurity and propel you forward.
在音乐行业，你需要一些时间来让你走出默默无闻并推动你前进。
And it felt like, for us, Weezer had been it.
对我们来说，感觉韦泽就是这样。
Instead, we'd blown it.
相反，我们搞砸了。
And that was the beginning of the end.
这就是结局的开始。
After Bonnaroo, Julia and I stayed busy touring, just the two of us, for a while.
博纳罗之后，朱莉娅和我继续忙着巡演，只有我们两个人，一段时间。
But then things slowed down.
但随后事情就慢了下来。
Julia and her management were about to part ways.
朱莉娅和她的管理层即将分道扬镳。
I started getting nervous about being able to support myself, so I tapped out of touring with Julia and got a full-time job where a lot of struggling musicians and actors end up-- at the Apple Store.
我开始对能否养活自己感到紧张，所以我不再和朱莉娅一起巡演，而是找到了一份全职工作，很多苦苦挣扎的音乐家和演员最终都在苹果商店工作。
And so this is when I started watching and rewatching that video, the Weezer performance.
就在那时，我开始反复观看那个视频，即威泽的表演。
I've been doing that for the last 14 years.
过去 14 年我一直这样做。
Each replay, I keep hoping that it won't be as bad as I remember, but it always is.
每次重播，我都希望它不会像我记忆中的那么糟糕，但事实总是如此。
I'm still stuck on, what the fuck happened?
我还是被困住了，到底发生了什么？
And in particular, was it our fault?
特别是，这是我们的错吗？
On stage, Rivers had made it seem like it.
在舞台上，里弗斯已经做到了这一点。
But I've gone through the details again and again.
但我已经一遍又一遍地查看细节。
Julia had received tuning instructions from Weezer's road manager.
朱莉娅收到了威泽道路经理的调整指示。
Were those incorrect?
这些是不正确的吗？
Had Julia done the math wrong tuning her uke?
朱莉娅在调尤克里里时是否计算错误了？
Had I?
我有吗？
I'd helped her with that.
我帮了她这件事。
I found a video of Julia rehearsing with Weezer on their tour bus.
我找到了朱莉娅和威泽在他们的旅游巴士上排练的视频。
She was in the wrong tuning there, too, but no one had noticed?
她在那里也调错了音，但没有人注意到？
Julia might know what went wrong, but I never really talked to her about that show.
朱莉娅可能知道出了什么问题，但我从未真正与她谈论过那个节目。
Only once, right after.
只有一次，就在之后。
It was uncomfortable.
这很不舒服。
She was clearly upset, had been crying.
她显然很伤心，一直在哭。
She asked to let it go, so I did.
她要求放手，我就放手了。
But she must remember something from that day.
但她一定记得那天的事情。
So I called her.
所以我打电话给她。
When is the last time you thought about the Weezer performance?
你最后一次想到威泽的表演是什么时候？
It doesn't, like, revisit me in the quiet, dark night.
它不会在安静、漆黑的夜晚再次拜访我。
OK.
好的。
Julia Nunes I think, when Weezer comes up, like if Weezer is on at a party, I might or might not be like, I've played with Weezer once, and I totally-- [LAUGHS] fumbled.
Julia Nunes 我想，当 Weezer 出现时，就像 Weezer 出现在派对上一样，我可能会也可能不会，我曾经和 Weezer 一起玩过一次，但我完全——[笑]笨手笨脚的。
Julia lives in Austin, Texas now.
朱莉娅现在住在德克萨斯州奥斯汀。
She's still releasing music, but her career has shifted more towards life coaching and guided meditation.
她仍在发行音乐，但她的职业生涯更多地转向生活指导和引导冥想。
Her memories of the Weezer incident were not as vivid as mine.
她对威泽事件的记忆并不像我那么清晰。
She didn't remember how she and Weezer got in touch.
她不记得自己和Weezer是如何取得联系的。
She didn't remember what year it happened.
她不记得那件事发生在哪一年了。
She definitely did not have the email from the road manager about the tuning, and she never puzzled over why her tuning was off.
她肯定没有收到道路经理关于调校的电子邮件，而且她从来没有困惑过为什么她的调校失败了。
Because for her, that whole show was a totally different experience.
因为对她来说，整场演出是一次完全不同的体验。
When Rivers was saying all that stuff about her on stage--
当里弗斯在舞台上谈论她的所有事情时——
It never registered to me as, like, anything-- anything other than a musician just trying to make the show go.
在我看来，它从来没有被认为是任何东西——除了一个试图让演出顺利进行的音乐家之外的任何东西。
Oh, my god, I feel like I've just been stewing in it for so long, being like, that dude was an asshole to my friend.
哦，天哪，我觉得我已经在其中煎熬了很长时间了，就像，那个家伙对我的朋友来说是个混蛋。
Oh, Mike!
哦，迈克！
No way, man.
没办法，伙计。
I have never once thought that Rivers was mean.
我从来没有认为里弗斯是卑鄙的。
I didn't know what to say in that moment.
那一刻我不知道该说什么。
I didn't know what to do.
我不知道该怎么办。
Like, he could have just been like, OK, never mind.
就像，他可能只是说，好吧，没关系。
[LAUGHTER] But the fact that he came up with a real-time solution to be like, yeah, just sing-- I was so grateful.
[笑声] 但事实上，他想出了一个实时解决方案，就像，是的，只是唱歌——我非常感激。
I watch this video probably more often than I should.
我看这个视频的次数可能比我应该看的次数多。
[CHUCKLES] I feel like I'm responsible for it in a way that's like, if I had just not said anything in that rehearsal that day, we could have just gone about our days and rehearsed and then just had our set at Bonnaroo.
[笑]我觉得我对这件事负有责任，如果那天排练时我没有说什么，我们就可以继续我们的日子并排练，然后在博纳罗进行演出。
And then you would have come to the Weezer set and sat in the bleachers with us, and we just would have enjoyed Weezer together.
然后你就会来到威泽的现场，和我们一起坐在看台上，我们就会一起欣赏威泽的表演。
But instead, you went on stage with him, and this thing that could have changed your career, in my view, had this effect that, you seemed so sad afterwards and devastated.
但相反，你和他一起登上了舞台，在我看来，这件可能会改变你职业生涯的事情产生了这样的效果，你后来看起来非常悲伤和沮丧。
And I was like, oh, my god, if I had just said nothing, this wouldn't have happened to you.
我当时想，哦，天啊，如果我什么也没说，这件事就不会发生在你身上。
God, I-- I don't think that experience had any sort of detrimental pivot for my career.
天哪，我——我不认为这段经历对我的职业生涯有任何不利的影响。
The thing that made my career not happen is that I couldn't take the pressure.
导致我职业生涯失败的原因是我无法承受压力。
It's not that you-- I think that you offering that Weezer thing was brilliant.
不是你——我认为你提供的 Weezer 东西很棒。
I wish I would have done a bunch of different things, but not playing with Weezer and not fucking up on stage is not one of my regrets at all.
我希望我能做很多不同的事情，但没有和 Weezer 一起演奏，也没有在舞台上搞砸，这根本不是我的遗憾之一。
Julia was so much more at peace with the day than I was.
朱莉娅比我对这一天感到平静得多。
She said the band, our band, wasn't sounding good to her anyways.
她说我们的乐队对她来说无论如何听起来都不好。
She thought opening for Weezer was a long shot, even if she had been in the right tuning for "Tripping Down the Freeway."
她认为为威泽开场的机会不大，即使她已经为“Tripping Down the Freeway”做好了正确的调音。
But also, the moment Julia remembered most from that performance wasn't the mistake.
而且，朱莉娅在那次表演中记忆最深刻的那一刻并不是错误。
It was the part of the video that I usually skip over, the moment where it works out, after Rivers asked Julia if she wants to sing.
这是视频中我通常会跳过的部分，也就是在里弗斯问朱莉娅是否想唱歌之后，它成功的那一刻。
I'm looking Rivers Cuomo in the eye.
我看着里弗斯·科莫的眼睛。
Once we decide to start singing, everyone cheers.
一旦我们决定开始唱歌，每个人都会欢呼。
And we start, like, dancing together, and we put our arms around each other, and we're, like, head to head, singing, like, full blast, "Tripping Down the Freeway." And I felt like we sounded really good together.
我们开始一起跳舞，我们互相搂着对方，我们就像头对头，大声唱着“沿着高速公路绊倒”。我觉得我们在一起听起来非常好。
Yeah, I don't know.
是的，我不知道。
Like, all of that feels important to me.
就像，所有这些对我来说都很重要。
You can't see any of this in the video I'd been replaying all these years.
你在我这些年来一直重播的视频中看不到这些。
That one was shot from way back near the bleachers, where I watched the show.
那张照片是从看台附近拍摄的，我就是在那里观看演出的。
I almost couldn't believe what Julia described.
我几乎不敢相信朱莉娅所描述的。
But changing up the wording of my YouTube search, I found another video from that day, filmed close to the stage.
但改变 YouTube 搜索的措辞后，我发现了那天的另一段视频，是在舞台附近拍摄的。
You can see everyone's faces, and even when the tuning mistake becomes apparent, they're smiling and they're laughing.
你可以看到每个人的脸，即使调音错误变得明显，他们也在微笑。
Julia and Rivers dance.
朱莉娅和里弗斯跳舞。
They're having a great time.
他们玩得很开心。
Watching it, I felt this wave of relief.
看着它，我感到一阵轻松。
It's what I was missing all these years.
这就是我这些年所缺少的。
Julia was OK, and I believed her that the band didn't break up because of a tuning mistake.
朱莉娅很好，我相信她乐队并不是因为调音错误而解散。
And this moment wasn't why I stopped playing music for a living.
这一刻并不是我停止以音乐为生的原因。
After Julia and I talked, I finally heard back from Weezer's former road manager.
在我和朱莉娅交谈之后，我终于收到了威泽前任公路经理的回复。
She found the email they'd sent us before the performance, and the instructions were wrong.
她找到了他们在演出前发给我们的电子邮件，说明说明是错误的。
There would have been no way for Julia and me to tune correctly with them.
朱莉娅和我不可能与他们正确地协调一致。
I had the full answer now, but I was surprised by how little it mattered to me.
我现在有了完整的答案，但令我惊讶的是它对我来说如此无关紧要。
I was over it.
我已经结束了。
Mike Comite.
迈克·科米特.
He is one of the super skilled people who work here at the show, doing audio mixes and adding music to our stories.
他是在节目中工作的超级技术人员之一，负责混音并为我们的故事添加音乐。
Diane Wu produced this story.
吴黛安制作了这个故事。
Here is Mike playing guitar and singing with Julia, whose full name, by the way, is Julia Nunes.
这是迈克和朱莉娅一起弹吉他和唱歌，顺便说一下，朱莉娅的全名是朱莉娅·努内斯。
This is a song they used to cover together, years ago.
这是他们多年前一起翻唱的歌曲。
Act Three, And If You See Her, Tell Her It's Over Now.
第三幕，如果你看到她，告诉她一切都结束了。
In this last act, we turn from small, personal moments to big news that the whole world experiences, but that hits some people very, very personally.
在最后一幕中，我们从个人的小时刻变成了全世界都经历过的大新闻，但这对一些人来说是非常非常个人化的。
You probably saw the headlines and reports that a couple of weeks ago, after his family ruled Syria for over 50 years, the president/dictator Bashar Al Assad, was run out of his own country very suddenly.
您可能看到了这样的头条新闻和报道：几周前，在其家族统治叙利亚 50 多年之后，总统/独裁者巴沙尔·阿萨德突然被赶出自己的国家。
Assad ran a government that did not tolerate dissent.
阿萨德领导的政府不容忍异议。
He used chemical weapons against his own citizens.
他对自己的公民使用化学武器。
He spent much of the last 13 years brutally crushing an uprising.
过去13年的大部分时间他都在残酷镇压一场起义。
Hundreds of thousands of Syrians were killed, tortured, disappeared.
数十万叙利亚人被杀害、遭受酷刑、失踪。
More than half the population was displaced in that conflict.
一半以上的人口在那场冲突中流离失所。
Six million Syrians fled the country.
六百万叙利亚人逃离该国。
So when a rebel coalition forced Assad out two weeks ago, Syrians all over the globe had their world turned upside down, and a few of us here at the show called around to see what that's been like for them.
因此，当两周前叛军联盟迫使阿萨德下台时，全球各地的叙利亚人的世界都发生了翻天覆地的变化，我们现场的一些人打电话过来看看他们的处境如何。
Diane Wu put together this story.
吴黛安整理了这个故事。
The regime collapsed late on a Saturday night.
该政权在周六深夜垮台。
My coworkers and I talked to a few Syrians who are living abroad now about what that night was like for them.
我和我的同事与一些目前居住在国外的叙利亚人谈论了那天晚上对他们来说的感受。
One was up studying for an exam.
一个人正在准备考试。
Another was out to an anniversary dinner.
另一个人出去参加周年纪念晚宴。
He kept checking his phone.
他不停地查看手机。
But the person I want to tell you about is Salma.
但我想告诉你的人是萨尔玛。
She was in London on Saturday.
周六她在伦敦。
She lives in another part of England.
她住在英格兰的另一个地方。
But watching the news by herself in the days before that, she felt like she had to be around other Syrians.
但在那之前的几天里，她独自看着新闻，觉得自己必须和其他叙利亚人在一起。
So she got on the train and headed to her friend's apartment.
于是她坐上了火车，前往她朋友的公寓。
She'd been crashing there since Thursday.
从周四起她就一直在那儿坠毁。
It's like this tiny one-- it's not even an apartment.
就像这个小房子一样——它甚至不是一间公寓。
It's like a studio.
这就像一个工作室。
So it's this tiny, tiny studio.
所以这是一个非常非常小的工作室。
We're all sitting together on this couch, five of us, and we're all, like, on our phones.
我们五个人一起坐在这张沙发上，我们都在玩手机。
And then the TV's on, and we're all checking, and there's barely any space.
然后电视打开，我们都在检查，几乎没有任何空间。
I don't know if I would describe it as crashing, because we didn't sleep.
我不知道是否可以用崩溃来形容它，因为我们没有睡觉。
So--
所以——
(LAUGHING) OK.
（笑）好的。
Salma (LAUGHING) --none of us were sleeping, actually.
萨尔玛（笑）——实际上，我们都没有睡觉。
It felt like we were on duty for some reason, like we were on call constantly.
感觉就像我们出于某种原因在值班，就像我们随时待命一样。
It felt like their job to not look away.
他们的工作就是不把目光移开。
Something huge was happening back home.
家里发生了一件大事。
The rebels kept taking more and more ground each day, liberating more and more cities with hardly any pushback.
叛军每天都攻占越来越多的土地，几乎没有任何抵抗就解放了越来越多的城市。
Everyone was worried that Assad would do something desperate, like retaliate with chemical weapons or bombings, or that Russia would jump in.
每个人都担心阿萨德会采取绝望的行动，比如用化学武器或爆炸进行报复，或者俄罗斯会介入。
Salma and her friends were barely keeping it together.
萨尔玛和她的朋友们勉强维持现状。
One of them-- it's not funny, but he kept fainting.
其中一个——这并不好笑，但他一直昏倒。
And so-- [LAUGHS] he would go into the room, and then just, like, almost pass out.
所以——[笑]他会走进房间，然后就几乎昏倒了。
So the first thing I did was-- I didn't know what to do, so I gave him a tomato with salt on it, and I just shoved it into his mouth.
所以我做的第一件事就是——我不知道该怎么办，所以我给了他一个撒了盐的西红柿，然后我就把它塞进了他的嘴里。
[LAUGHTER] And I was like, OK, I think your blood pressure is dropping.
[笑声] 我当时想，好吧，我认为你的血压正在下降。
And--
还有——
And were you guys like-- were you worried or freaked out, or was he kind of like, oh, this is something that happens?
你们是否感到担心或害怕，或者他是否有点像，哦，这是发生的事情？
We were-- I don't think we were super freaked out, just because a lot of us have medical training.
我们——我不认为我们非常害怕，只是因为我们很多人都接受过医疗培训。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
(LAUGHING) OK.
（笑）好的。
Salma It wasn't that big of a deal.
萨尔玛：这没什么大不了的。
And so--
所以——
They notice there is a pattern to his fainting.
他们注意到他的昏厥有一定的规律。
First, he'd start sweating profusely, then go stand in the door to cool off, then head towards the bathroom.
首先，他开始大汗淋漓，然后站在门口凉快一下，然后走向浴室。
By the third time, we kind of got the routine down.
到了第三次，我们就已经习惯了。
Like, we saw him open the door.
就像，我们看到他打开门。
We're like, he's about to pass out.
我们就像，他快要昏倒了。
Like, someone start, you know-- [LAUGHS] doing all the steps.
就像，有人开始，你知道的——[笑]完成所有步骤。
We kept joking.
我们一直开玩笑。
They're like, we have to-- you can't pass out now.
他们说，我们必须——你现在不能昏倒。
You got to be strong.
你必须坚强。
You got to make it until the regime falls.
你必须坚持下去，直到政权垮台。
Salma told me that her friend who kept fainting had been detained by the regime when he was a teenager, three times.
萨尔玛告诉我，她那个经常晕倒的朋友在青少年时期曾被当局拘留过三次。
He fled Syria after the third time, but his parents are still there, and he was really concerned about them.
他第三次逃离叙利亚，但他的父母还在那里，他真的很担心他们。
Other people in the room were also having physical reactions from all the stress and fear.
房间里的其他人也因压力和恐惧而出现身体反应。
I think it was just, like, our bodies going into shock, and each person was kind of doing it differently.
我认为这就像我们的身体进入休克状态一样，每个人的做法都不同。
Like, for me, I cry a lot, and I have panic attacks, and then I throw up, which is kind of gross.
就像，对我来说，我经常哭，我会惊恐发作，然后我会呕吐，这有点恶心。
But that's what would happen to me.
但这就是发生在我身上的事情。
Like, I would get really nauseous, really nauseous, really nauseous.
就像，我会变得非常恶心，非常恶心，非常恶心。
Like, I would go and throw up.
就像，我会去呕吐。
It was from inside this crowded apartment, scattered with takeout containers and nervous bodies, that these friends then witnessed a sudden unraveling that none of them had anticipated.
正是在这间拥挤的公寓里，到处都是外卖容器和紧张的身体，这些朋友随后目睹了他们都没有预料到的突然崩溃。
Salma is from Damascus, the capital, which was the seat of the Assad regime.
萨尔玛来自首都大马士革，那里曾是阿萨德政权的所在地。
And as the rebels kept advancing across Syria, taking Hama, and then As-Suwayda, and then Homs, her friends from those cities celebrated around her.
随着叛军不断向叙利亚挺进，占领了哈马，然后是苏韦达，然后是霍姆斯，她来自这些城市的朋友们在她周围庆祝。
If the rebels succeeded, her hometown would be the last to fall.
如果叛军成功，她的家乡将是最后一个陷落的。
When Salma saw a video of people standing on a tank in Umayyad Square in Damascus, singing "Jannah Jannah," a revolutionary song, it was finally real to her.
当萨尔玛看到一段视频，视频中人们站在大马士革倭马亚广场的坦克上，唱着革命歌曲《Jannah Jannah》，这对她来说终于是真实的了。
It was over.
一切都结束了。
Knowing that we would be the last, I was holding it in.
知道我们会是最后一个，我就忍住了。
And so the first thing I did was, I cried, I hugged all my friends, I-- I sat there kind of staring at the wall, crying, crying, crying, crying.
所以我做的第一件事就是，我哭了，我拥抱了我所有的朋友，我坐在那里盯着墙，哭，哭，哭，哭。
They stayed up all night, and then celebrated more the next day in Trafalgar Square.
他们彻夜未眠，第二天在特拉法加广场举行了更多庆祝活动。
Then Salma went home and mostly laid in bed in the dark for a few days, trying to make sense of this brand-new world.
然后萨尔玛回到家，在黑暗中躺在床上几天，试图理解这个全新的世界。
Salma's family had left Damascus in the first year of the war, 2011, when she was 15.
萨尔玛的家人在战争第一年（2011 年）离开了大马士革，当时她 15 岁。
They moved to Connecticut, where she joined the soccer team and tried to do regular life while going to protests against the regime on weekends.
他们搬到了康涅狄格州，在那里她加入了足球队，并试图过上正常的生活，同时在周末参加反对政权的抗议活动。
Now, she had to figure out how to reverse this thing she's been doing since she was a teenager, separating herself from Syria.
现在，她必须弄清楚如何扭转她从十几岁起就一直在做的事情，将自己与叙利亚分开。
I knew I couldn't go back, with the regime there.
我知道我不能回去，因为政权在那里。
And so I started slowly distancing myself from my memories.
于是我开始慢慢远离记忆。
Like, before, I would post a lot of photos, saying, I miss Damascus, or I miss this, or I miss my house, and I miss that.
就像以前，我会发布很多照片，说，我想念大马士革，或者我想念这个，或者我想念我的房子，我想念那个。
And I stopped doing that, kind of on purpose.
我不再这样做了，有点故意。
And even between myself when I'm alone, if I would remember something or if I would find myself kind of daydreaming, I would stop myself, and I wouldn't let myself go through with it.
即使在我独自一人的时候，如果我想起了什么，或者如果我发现自己在做白日梦，我就会阻止自己，不会让自己经历这一切。
What kind of daydream?
什么样的白日梦？
Salma Like, sometimes, I would daydream about my house and, like-- (CRYING) sorry.
萨尔玛 就像，有时候，我会梦见我的房子，就像——（哭泣）抱歉。
It's OK.
没关系。
Salma Yeah, I don't know.
萨尔玛：是的，我不知道。
Like, it's the place where I have a lot of good memories, and-- and it's the place where me and my siblings did this and did that.
就像，这是我有很多美好回忆的地方，也是我和我的兄弟姐妹做这做那的地方。
And sometimes, I would just daydream about walking into my room and going back and sitting in my living room and looking out the window.
有时，我会幻想走进自己的房间，然后回去坐在客厅里，看着窗外。
And I just-- I wouldn't let myself do that anymore.
我只是——我不会再让自己这样做了。
And even at times where I would have dreams about being in my house again, I would wake myself up and be like, no, this isn't real.
即使有时我会梦见再次回到自己的房子，我也会醒来，然后说，不，这不是真的。
Someone else I talked to described it like this.
和我交谈过的另一个人是这样描述的。
Syria was on a different planet from the one he lived on now.
叙利亚与他现在居住的星球不同。
There was no way to visit it.
没有办法参观它。
He had to flip a page, start a new life.
他必须翻开新的一页，开始新的生活。
Better not to think about it anymore.
最好还是别再想了。
But now that the regime was suddenly gone, Syria was back on this planet, a place like any other place.
但现在这个政权突然消失了，叙利亚又回到了这个星球上，一个像其他地方一样的地方。
And they had to reset their minds to take that in, which was hard to do after so many years of doing the opposite.
他们必须重新调整心态来接受这一点，而在多年来做了相反的事情之后，这是很难做到的。
Salma started thinking about visiting home, not just in a dream way, but the logistics of where she would stay when she went back.
萨尔玛开始考虑回家，不仅仅是以梦想的方式，而且还考虑她回去后要住的地方。
So we still have our house now.
所以我们现在还有我们的房子。
I'm like, would I stay at my house, or would I want to stay somewhere else?
我想，我会留在我的房子里，还是我想住在其他地方？
Or what am I going to do?
或者我要做什么？
And now, I can think of all the plans.
现在，我可以想到所有的计划。
The euphoria of the regime falling was laced with heavy feelings, too.
政权垮台的喜悦中也夹杂着沉重的情绪。
In the days following the collapse, as Salma learned just how many people who'd been disappeared by the Assad government had been killed were not coming home, she had another panic attack.
在垮台后的几天里，当萨尔玛得知有多少被阿萨德政府失踪的人被杀害后没有回家时，她再次陷入恐慌。
Salma's been watching all kinds of videos coming out of the new Syria, and there's a particular type that delights her-- one I wasn't expecting.
萨尔玛一直在观看来自新叙利亚的各种视频，其中有一种特殊类型让她很高兴——这是我没想到的。
It was a girl in a karate uniform.
那是一个穿着空手道制服的女孩。
And this guy was standing across from her with something on his head-- I can't remember-- like a water bottle.
这个家伙站在她对面，头上顶着什么东西——我不记得了——比如一个水瓶。
And she closes her eyes, and she, like, karate-kicks the water bottle off the top of his head with her eyes closed.
她闭上眼睛，就像空手道一样，闭着眼睛将他头顶上的水瓶踢下来。
And then the camera pans back, and everyone's, like, clapping and cheering.
然后镜头向后摇动，每个人都鼓掌欢呼。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Salma I saw people doing parkour in Damascus.
萨尔玛 我在大马士革看到人们在跑酷。
They're doing, like, back flips in the street in the middle of the celebration.
他们在庆祝活动期间在街上做后空翻。
Watching these people just be silly and happy-- for Salma, she sees that as getting to watch them finally be free.
看着这些人既愚蠢又快乐——对萨尔玛来说，她认为这就是看到他们最终获得自由。
In Latakia, someone was lifting weights.
在拉塔基亚，有人在举重。
Like, in the street?
比如，在街上？
Salma Like, in the street.
像萨尔玛一样，在街上。
Yeah, like, in the middle of this.
是的，就像，在这中间。
There's fighters, kind of, passing by on cars, waving flowers, and he's right on the side, doing all of these moves-- [LAUGHS] in his, like, gym clothes.
有战士，有点像，骑着汽车经过，挥舞着鲜花，而他就在一边，做所有这些动作——[笑]穿着他的运动服。
It's just so, so unserious, so fun.
就是这么，这么不严肃，这么有趣。
It's things you could have done before, but it's just the mentality of, you're free, you can do anything, and you belong to this country, or it feels like it's yours again.
这是你以前可以做的事情，但这只是一种心态，你是自由的，你可以做任何事情，你属于这个国家，或者感觉它又是你的了。
I think the slogans of the regime were so damaging to our psyche, like calling it Suria al Asad-- Assad's Syria-- just-- it removes you from the equation.
我认为该政权的口号对我们的心灵造成了极大的伤害，比如称其为“Suria al Asad”——阿萨德的叙利亚——只是——它把你从等式中删除了。
So who are you in Assad's Syria?
那么你在阿萨德的叙利亚是谁？
You're nobody.
你什么都不是。
You don't belong.
你不属于。
Seeing the people now in Syria, seeing their reaction, they're slowly kind of feeling like it is theirs-- this is our country.
看到现在叙利亚人民的反应，他们慢慢地感觉这是他们的国家——这是我们的国家。
We're the ones who are responsible for it now.
我们现在是对此负责的人。
We're the ones who are going to take care of it.
我们是要照顾它的人。
There's pretty much no way to overstate how much there is to do next, how many things will need to be figured out, how many unknowns there are.
接下来有多少事情要做，有多少事情需要弄清楚，有多少未知数，几乎没有办法夸大。
But one person told me, none of it could be worse than what we lived through already.
但一个人告诉我，没有什么比我们已经经历过的更糟糕了。
Diane Wu is a producer on our show.
吴黛安是我们节目的制片人。
This story was co-produced by Hany Hawasly.
这个故事由哈尼·哈瓦斯利 (Hany Hawasly) 联合制作。
That's Mike and Julia covering Weezer's Sweater Song, "Undone."
这是迈克和朱莉娅翻唱韦泽的毛衣歌曲“Undone”。
Our program was produced today by Lilly Sullivan.
我们今天的节目由莉莉·沙利文制作。
The people who put together today's show include Phia Bennin, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Cassie Howie, Chana Joffe-Walt, Henry Larson, Seth Lind, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney.
今天节目的制作人包括 Phia Bennin、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Cassie Howie、Chana Joffe-Walt、Henry Larson、Seth Lind、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Anthony Roman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney。
Our managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Natalie Sullivan, Kim Sullivan, Sarah Kim, Steve Sopchak, Erin Maree Comite, Dave Burns, Todd Johnson, Leanne Victorine, Darien Woods, and Yazan Abou Ismail.
今天特别感谢 Natalie Sullivan、Kim Sullivan、Sarah Kim、Steve Sopchak、Erin Maree Comite、Dave Burns、Todd Johnson、Leanne Victorine、Darien Woods 和 Yazan Abou Ismail。
To become a This American Life Partner, which gets you bonus content, ad-free listening, and hundreds of our favorite episodes of the shown in your podcast feed, go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.
要成为 This American Life 合作伙伴，您可以获得额外内容、无广告收听以及播客提要中显示的数百个我们最喜欢的剧集，请访问 thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。
That link is also in the show notes.
该链接也在节目注释中。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He invented this new appetizer where you put a hot dog in a handful of straw.
他发明了这种新的开胃菜，可以将热狗放在一把吸管中。
What's he call it?
他叫什么？
Hey, dawg!
嘿，老兄！
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。