843: A Little Bit of Power - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #843 | October 11, 2024 843: A Little Bit of Power Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 843 集 | 2024 年 10 月 11 日 843：一点力量 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Maybe you saw this video this past week-- a veteran meteorologist in Florida, John Morales, on live TV, talking about the power of Hurricane Milton as it was still approaching the state.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 也许您上周看过这段视频——佛罗里达州的一位资深气象学家约翰·莫拉莱斯 (John Morales) 在电视直播中谈论了仍在逼近该州的飓风米尔顿的威力。
He was reading the barometric pressure numbers.
他正在读取气压数字。
And it just got to him.
这件事就发生在他身上。
He choked up.
他哽咽了。
It has dropped.
它已经下降了。
[SIGHS] It has dropped 50 millibars in 10 hours.
[叹气] 10 小时内气压下降了 50 毫巴。
I apologize.
我道歉。
This is just horrific.
这太可怕了。
He wasn't the only meteorologist who seemed pushed to the limits trying to communicate the scale and intensity of Hurricane Milton.
他并不是唯一一个在试图传达飓风米尔顿的规模和强度时被推到极限的气象学家。
Noah Bergren, who's on TV in Orlando, declared in a tweet, "This is nothing short of astronomical.
奥兰多电视节目主持人诺亚·伯格伦 (Noah Bergren) 在推文中宣称：“这简直就是天文数字。
I'm at a loss for words to meteorologically describe to you the storm's small eye and intensity.
我无法用气象学的语言向您描述这场风暴的小风眼和强度。
This is now the fourth strongest hurricane ever recorded by pressure on this side of the world." He later corrected that to the fifth strongest.
这是目前世界这一边有记录以来第四强的飓风。”后来他将其修正为第五强。
"This hurricane is nearing the mathematical limit of what Earth's atmosphere over this ocean water can produce."
“这场飓风已经接近地球大气层对海水所能产生的影响的数学极限。”
Reading that, you get the feeling of somebody trying their hardest to summon words that'll do the job to fully warn people-- evacuate.
读到这篇文章，你会感觉到有人在尽最大努力召唤文字来充分警告人们——疏散。
Get to safety.
到达安全地带。
Fate and circumstance put these meteorologists into a situation where they could use the little bit of power they have to try to alert people and hopefully save lives.
命运和环境将这些气象学家置于这样一种境地：他们可以利用自己所拥有的一点点力量来尝试提醒人们并希望拯救生命。
That kind of thing where somebody has a small amount of power, and then something happens, some moment arrives where they really can make a difference.
那种事情是，某人拥有少量权力，然后发生了一些事情，某个时刻到来了，他们真正可以发挥作用。
It sometimes happens in politics.
在政治中有时会发生这种情况。
And when it does, somebody who is not usually in the limelight, somebody who's not a household name, can end up with immense power.
当它发生时，一个通常不引人注目的人，一个不是家喻户晓的名字的人，最终可能会拥有巨大的权力。
Events shake out so that random political figures suddenly have the entire weight of a country's future in their hands.
事件发生后，随机的政治人物突然掌握了一个国家未来的全部重心。
Classic example, I think of Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state in Georgia, who famously got a phone call from then President Trump, asking him after the last presidential election, to find some votes or throw out some votes just to somehow overturn the results in Georgia.
典型的例子是，我想到佐治亚州国务卿布拉德·拉芬斯伯格（Brad Raffensperger），他曾接到时任总统特朗普的电话，要求他在上次总统选举后寻找一些选票或扔掉一些选票，以某种方式推翻佐治亚州的选举结果。
So, look.
那么，看吧。
All I want to do is this.
我想做的就是这个。
I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.
我只想找到 11,780 票，比我们多一张。
And flipping the state is a great testament to our country.
翻转国家是对我们国家的一个很好的证明。
Raffensperger, of course, refused.
拉芬斯佩格当然拒绝了。
There was another example like that a couple of weeks ago.
几周前还有另一个类似的例子。
Nebraska lawmakers were debating whether to switch the way Nebraska gives out its electoral college votes in presidential elections.
内布拉斯加州立法者正在讨论是否改变内布拉斯加州在总统选举中发放选举团票的方式。
Nebraska doesn't use the winner-take-all system that most of the states use, which means that it's possible that Kamala Harris could win one electoral college vote from Nebraska, which conceivably could decide the coming election.
内布拉斯加州没有采用大多数州所采用的赢者通吃制度，这意味着卡马拉·哈里斯有可能赢得内布拉斯加州的一张选举团票，这可能会决定即将到来的选举。
In fact, that is such a real possibility in this very close election that Donald Trump personally got on the phone to convince lawmakers to make the change.
事实上，在这场势均力敌的选举中，这种可能性确实存在，唐纳德·特朗普亲自打电话说服立法者做出改变。
And in the end, it all came down to one state senator, Mike McDonnell, a Republican actually, who dug in his heels and said no and ended up, it felt like, in every newspaper and news broadcast in the country.
最终，这一切都归咎于一位州参议员迈克·麦克唐纳（Mike McDonnell），他实际上是一名共和党人，他坚持不懈地拒绝了，最终，感觉就像是出现在该国每一份报纸和新闻广播中。
This idea of changing it with 42 days, it's like we're in a football game, you call a timeout out and say, I want to switch the value of a field goal from 3 points to 4 points.
这个用 42 天改变它的想法，就像我们在一场足球比赛中，你叫暂停并说，我想把射门得分从 3 分改为 4 分。
That's just not the way we do things.
这不是我们做事的方式。
That's not the Nebraska way.
这不是内布拉斯加州的方式。
Today on our show, we have the story of a bunch of people.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了一群人的故事。
And fascinatingly, unlike these other examples, most of them are not professional politicians.
令人着迷的是，与其他例子不同，他们中的大多数都不是职业政治家。
These are just regular voters who suddenly find themselves in this kind of special political circumstance where they have a little bit of power to nudge and maybe to decide the election in one of the key battleground states this year.
这些只是普通选民，他们突然发现自己处于这种特殊的政治环境中，他们有一点权力来推动，甚至可能决定今年关键战场州之一的选举。
And lots of eyes are on them.
很多眼睛都注视着他们。
And it's been a ton of suspense these past two months for how it would all play out.
过去两个月，这一切将如何展开，充满了悬念。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: The Convention Ira Glass This American Life.
第一幕：大会艾拉·格拉斯的美国生活。
These last weeks before the election, so much of the fight for the presidency is coming down to battles for individual slices of voters who can help throw swing states to one of the candidates or the other.
大选前的最后几周，总统职位之争很大程度上归结为争夺个别选民的斗争，这些选民可以帮助将摇摆州推向其中一位候选人。
So campaigns are targeting college educated suburbanites here or young male voters there.
因此，竞选活动的目标是这里受过大学教育的郊区居民或那里的年轻男性选民。
And there's a particularly dramatic example of this playing out with a huge chunk of voters in Michigan.
在密歇根州的大量选民中，有一个特别引人注目的例子。
Michigan is a key state for Kamala Harris to win.
密歇根州是卡马拉·哈里斯获胜的关键州。
She doesn't have many paths to the presidency without it.
如果没有它，她通往总统职位的途径并不多。
And Michigan, right now, is a complete toss up.
而密歇根州现在完全是一个难以抉择的局面。
So back in February, a reliable bunch of Democratic voters started to shake loose from the Democratic coalition.
因此，早在二月份，一批可靠的民主党选民就开始脱离民主党联盟。
These were Arab-American voters and other voters who were upset about President Biden's support for Israel right now in the war in Gaza.
这些是阿拉伯裔美国选民和其他选民，他们对拜登总统在加沙战争中支持以色列感到不安。
There's a huge Arab-American population in the cities and suburbs around Detroit.
底特律周边城市和郊区有大量阿拉伯裔美国人。
Dearborn's the largest city in the country with an Arab-American majority.
迪尔伯恩是该国最大的城市，阿拉伯裔美国人占多数。
And in February, these Democrats, who, by the way, do not want Trump-- they see him as even more pro-Israel than Biden-- these Democrats wanted to signal their displeasure with the bombings and the deaths of so many Palestinian civilians with US bombs and US support.
顺便说一句，这些民主党人不想要特朗普——他们认为他比拜登更亲以色列——这些民主党人想在二月份表达他们对美国炸弹和美国支持下的爆炸事件以及造成如此多巴勒斯坦平民死亡的不满。
So back during the Democratic primary, they quickly organized-- in just a few weeks-- a campaign to encourage Democrats to not vote for Biden as the nominee as a kind of protest vote.
因此，在民主党初选期间，他们在短短几周内就迅速组织了一场运动，鼓励民主党人不要投票给拜登作为提名人，作为一种抗议投票。
They would instead vote uncommitted.
相反，他们会不表态地投票。
They said they hoped to get 10,000 votes like that.
他们说希望能得到一万张这样的选票。
They chose 10,000 because that's the number of votes that Donald Trump won Michigan with in 2016.
他们选择了 10,000 票，因为这是唐纳德·特朗普 (Donald Trump) 在 2016 年赢得密歇根州的选票数。
10,000.
10,000。
They did so much better than that.
他们做得比那好得多。
To their own astonishment, 100,000 people voted uncommitted.
令他们自己惊讶的是，有 10 万人没有投票。
It's these voters who shook up the Democratic primary.
正是这些选民震撼了民主党初选。
If he doesn't get it together and change what he's doing, we will not vote for him in November.
如果他不振作起来并改变他正在做的事情，我们将不会在 11 月份投票给他。
Overnight, an extremely unusual watch party for voters who cast their ballots not for a candidate, but for uncommitted, in protest of President Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war.
一夜之间，选民们举行了一场极其不寻常的观察派对，他们不是把票投给候选人，而是投给未做出承诺的候选人，以抗议拜登总统对以色列-哈马斯战争的处理方式。
100,000 Democratic votes in the primary was so many people that, under Democratic Party rules, the party had to give these uncommitted voters delegates to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago.
民主党初选的10万张选票实在是太多了，根据民主党的规定，该党必须将这些未承诺的选民作为代表参加在芝加哥举行的民主党全国代表大会。
There were two from Michigan and about 30 from other states.
其中两人来自密歇根州，约 30 人来自其他州。
Once inside the hall, these delegates could try to make deals, try to influence Mideast policy.
一旦进入大厅，这些代表就可以尝试达成协议，尝试影响中东政策。
After all, Kamala Harris needs these voters, particularly in Michigan.
毕竟，卡马拉·哈里斯需要这些选民，尤其是在密歇根州。
Michigan had enough uncommitted voters arguably to swing it for her or against her.
密歇根州有足够多的未做出承诺的选民可以支持她或反对她。
So the question was what could they get in exchange for their votes?
那么问题是他们能用选票换取什么？
Ben Terris, a reporter with The Washington Post, and our producer Zoe Chace, have been following one of the leaders of the uncommitted movement in Michigan for months, Abbas Alawieh.
《华盛顿邮报》记者本·特里斯 (Ben Terris) 和我们的制片人佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace) 几个月来一直在追踪密歇根州不承诺运动的领导人之一阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 (Abbas Alawieh)。
Abbas is a Democrat who's had many jobs working for the party.
阿巴斯是一名民主党人，曾为该党担任过许多职务。
He very much wants Harris to win.
他非常希望哈里斯获胜。
Ben and Zoe watch him try to broker some deal at the convention, and afterwards, that would satisfy the uncommitted voters and deliver them to Harris.
本和佐伊看着他试图在大会上达成一些协议，然后，这将使未承诺的选民满意并将他们交给哈里斯。
It's been hard.
这很难。
It really could affect the election results.
这确实会影响选举结果。
Here's Ben.
这是本。
We meet up with Abbas Alawieh the day before the convention starts.
我们在大会开始前一天与阿巴斯·阿拉维耶会面。
Abbas is someone I've known for years as a reporter.
阿巴斯是我作为记者认识多年的人。
He was chief of staff for Cori Bush, one of the members of the squad.
他是科里布什的幕僚长，也是该队的成员之一。
I've met a lot of chiefs over the years covering Capitol Hill.
多年来我在国会山见过很多负责人。
And Abbas boss wasn't like any of them.
阿巴斯的老板和他们中的任何一个都不一样。
He was young, barely 30 years old.
他很年轻，才30岁。
And he didn't stick to operating in the shadows, commenting off the record, and staying out of the spotlight.
他并没有坚持在暗处运作、私下发表评论、远离聚光灯。
He'd be at protests carrying a bullhorn.
他会带着扩音器参加抗议活动。
And he was unmissable, 6 foot 6, built like an NFL lineman.
他身高 6 英尺 6 英寸，体格像 NFL 边锋，不容错过。
And he was fine standing out.
他很擅长脱颖而出。
He also knew how to maneuver behind the scenes.
他也知道如何在幕后操纵。
And that really did catch my eye.
这确实引起了我的注意。
He was a kind of insider-outsider type-- part policy guy, part activist-- and I hadn't seen a lot of guys like that before.
他是一种既是局内人又是局外人的类型——一半是政策家，一半是活动家——我以前没见过很多这样的人。
So I stayed in touch.
所以我保持了联系。
Recently, he left Washington and moved back to Michigan, where he grew up.
最近，他离开华盛顿搬回他长大的密歇根州。
And there, he got swept up into the uncommitted movement, which is how he ended up here in Chicago for the convention.
在那里，他卷入了这场不坚定的运动，这就是他最终来到芝加哥参加大会的原因。
He's an uncommitted delegate.
他是一名不具承诺的代表。
Being a delegate, that gets him back inside, back among the Democratic power brokers.
作为一名代表，这让他回到了内部，回到了民主党权力掮客之中。
The black Toyota Highlander, I think this is us.
黑色的丰田汉兰达，我想这就是我们。
Right now, Abbas is standing on a street corner waiting for an Uber to take him to the convention center for a cable TV interview.
现在，阿巴斯正站在街角等待优步载他去会议中心接受有线电视采访。
A bunch of roads are closed for security reasons.
出于安全原因，许多道路被封闭。
No one knows which ones.
没有人知道是哪些。
City's gridlocked.
城市陷入拥堵。
Abbas is unruffled.
阿巴斯淡定自若。
When the Uber arrives, he folds himself into the car and starts chatting with the driver.
当优步到达时，他钻进车里，开始与司机聊天。
You are Abbas, right?
你是阿巴斯，对吧？
Abbas Alawieh Yes, sir.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 是的，先生。
We're heading to the drop-off spot for the convention this week.
我们本周将前往大会的下车地点。
Abbas, you are going to Malcolm X college.
阿巴斯，你要去马尔科姆 X 学院。
That's correct.
这是正确的。
Driver Will they allow us to get closer?
司机 他们能让我们靠近一点吗？
That is the question.
这就是问题所在。
Well, we're going to find out together, aren't we?
好吧，我们要一起找出答案，不是吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Abbas Alawieh My dad lived in Togo.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 我父亲住在多哥。
Abbas has a way of connecting with anyone he's talking to.
阿巴斯有一种与他交谈的人沟通的方式。
It's partly why he became the de facto spokesperson for the uncommitted delegates.
这也是他成为未表态代表事实上代言人的部分原因。
People just like him.
人们就像他一样。
He seems sincere.
他看起来很真诚。
Lomé.
洛美。
Yeah, he was in Lomé.
是的，他在洛美。
Driver Let me see.
司机让我看看。
Is your father a car dealer?
你父亲是汽车经销商吗？
He's not a car dealer.
他不是汽车经销商。
He has a brother who is though.
他有一个兄弟。
[LAUGHTER] You can probably guess my father's Lebanese.
[笑声] 你可能猜到我父亲是黎巴嫩人。
I have a lot of Lebanese friends.
我有很多黎巴嫩朋友。
So when I saw the name Abbas, I say I'm going for Lebanese.
所以当我看到阿巴斯这个名字时，我说我要选黎巴嫩人。
There's a lot of Lebanese, I mean, in West Africa in general.
我的意思是，整个西非有很多黎巴嫩人。
Abbas is Lebanese.
阿巴斯是黎巴嫩人。
He lived there till he was six.
他在那里住到六岁。
And he's still got a lot of family that lives in Southern Lebanon on Israel's border.
他还有很多家人住在以色列边境的黎巴嫩南部。
When he was 15, he was visiting his grandmother when war broke out with Israel in 2006.
2006 年，以色列爆发战争，当时他 15 岁，正在探望祖母。
He was forced to spend days sheltering in a basement while Israeli bombs were falling all around him, some of them made in the US.
他被迫在地下室避难几天，而以色列炸弹落在他周围，其中一些是美国制造的。
He was scared for his life.
他担心自己的生命安全。
And he talks about it a lot.
他对此谈了很多。
He says this is what activated him politically.
他说这就是他在政治上活跃的原因。
It made him want to get inside the US government to make some kind of change that way.
这让他想进入美国政府内部，以这种方式做出某种改变。
Abbas is a Lebanese.
阿巴斯是黎巴嫩人。
His wish is my wish.
他的愿望就是我的愿望。
We jump out of the car.
我们跳下车。
An escort from MSNBC meets us at the back of an hour's long line of journalists and other attendees.
来自微软全国广播公司 (MSNBC) 的一名陪同人员在记者和其他与会者排了一个小时的长队后面迎接我们。
We get to skip to the front.
我们可以跳到前面。
And we're hustled into the convention center so Abbas can make his TV appearance.
我们被赶进会议中心，以便阿巴斯可以在电视上露面。
The arena is bumping.
竞技场正在颠簸。
There's music blasting and delegates practicing their roll call vote.
音乐响起，代表们练习点名投票。
Kamala Harris-- Zoe Chace A big part of why he's here is to talk to the press.
卡玛拉·哈里斯（Kamala Harris）——佐伊·查斯（Zoe Chace） 他来这里的一个重要原因是与媒体交谈。
It's a way to put pressure on the Harris campaign.
这是向哈里斯竞选团队施加压力的一种方式。
There are TV studios set up all over the place.
到处都设有电视演播室。
We watch him talk to PBS and MSNBC.
我们看到他接受 PBS 和 MSNBC 的采访。
That uncommitted voters and uncommitted delegates, like me, want to support Vice President Harris, but need her to support a policy that stops sending weapons to the Israeli military that is using those weapons to kill people we love.
像我这样不坚定的选民和不坚定的代表想要支持副总统哈里斯，但需要她支持一项政策，停止向以色列军队运送武器，以色列军队正在使用这些武器杀害我们所爱的人。
Abbas tells us this is their ultimate goal-- a policy change.
阿巴斯告诉我们，这是他们的最终目标——政策改变。
But there are other ways the Harris team could respond to them.
但哈里斯团队还可以通过其他方式回应他们。
We're actually not asking her to adopt the full policy that every single one of my cousins would want her to adopt, which is a full arms embargo.
实际上，我们并不是要求她采取我的每一个表兄弟都希望她采取的全面政策，即全面的武器禁运。
But we need her to move in our direction.
但我们需要她朝我们的方向前进。
And so if she won't support a full arms embargo, OK, great.
因此，如果她不支持全面武器禁运，好吧，那就太好了。
What is your idea?
你的想法是什么？
Like, we need to hear it.
就像，我们需要听到它。
One thing he absolutely needs at this convention-- to show that his voters are being listened to and taken seriously by the campaign-- is a speaker.
在这次大会上，他绝对需要的一件事是一位演讲者，以表明竞选团队正在倾听他的选民的意见并认真对待他的选民。
The convention is mostly about speakers, symbols of who the party is speaking to, who the party cares about.
大会主要是关于演讲者，象征着该党正在与谁交谈，该党关心谁。
A Palestinian speaker on the main stage would be their chance for someone who can represent their perspective.
主舞台上的巴勒斯坦发言者将是他们获得能够代表他们观点的人的机会。
There are a lot of delegates here who do not want this to happen.
这里有很多代表不希望这种情况发生。
Some of them probably agree with Abbas about the war in Israel.
他们中的一些人可能同意阿巴斯关于以色列战争的观点。
But the feeling is-- right now, you're bringing this up?
但感觉是——现在，你提出这个问题？
This convention is an advertisement.
这个约定是一个广告。
Don't have a speaker saying Biden and Harris are doing something wrong.
不要让发言人说拜登和哈里斯做错了什么。
This is an event all about "look at how joyful and united we are."
这是一个关于“看看我们多么快乐和团结”的活动。
(HOST) ZOE CHACE: Even as Abbas is sitting down for his MSNBC interview, someone who really doesn't see things his way is just leaving the set-- former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh.
（主持人）佐伊·切斯：就在阿巴斯坐下来接受 MSNBC 采访时，一个真正不按他的方式看待事情的人刚刚离开现场——前共和党众议员乔·沃尔什。
He's wearing an Israel pen.
他戴着一支以色列钢笔。
We grab him.
我们抓住他。
If you've got a second?
如果你还有时间？
Actually, we've been following around this guy, Abbas, over here, who's an uncommitted delegate.
事实上，我们一直在跟踪这个人，阿巴斯，在这里，他是一名不负责任的代表。
This guy.
这个家伙。
Ben Terris Yep.
本·特里斯 是的。
He's uncommitted.
他没有承诺。
They're focusing on Gaza and trying to get a ceasefire and an arms embargo.
他们的重点是加沙并试图实现停火和武器禁运。
I see you have the Israel pen.
我看到你有以色列笔。
How do you feel about the delegates that are on the fence about Harris right now over this issue?
您对目前在这个问题上对哈里斯持观望态度的代表们有何看法？
My response always is I'm a Tea Party former Republican who's all on board with Kamala Harris.
我的回答始终是，我是茶党前共和党人，完全支持卡马拉·哈里斯。
If I can do that, anybody focused on an issue they care about can get on board with the-- because Trump needs to be defeated.
如果我能做到这一点，任何关注他们关心问题的人都可以加入——因为特朗普需要被击败。
That's it.
就是这样。
Yeah.
是的。
Do you feel like it could be a problem for Democrats?
您认为这对民主党来说可能是一个问题吗？
Yes.
是的。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
That issue, the Israel issue divides the Democratic coalition.
在这个问题上，以色列问题分裂了民主党联盟。
I say that as a former Republican, we're solidly behind Israel for a lot of different reasons.
我说，作为一名前共和党人，我们出于多种不同的原因坚定支持以色列。
But this splits the coalition.
但这导致了联盟的分裂。
And I think it's going to be a real big problem for them.
我认为这对他们来说将是一个真正的大问题。
Could you then try to make the case to them, look, I'm the Tea Party Republican, and I'm going to be voting for Kamala Harris anyway?
那么你能否尝试向他们说明情况，看，我是茶党共和党人，无论如何我都会投票给卡马拉·哈里斯？
Maybe we can just swallow this one?
也许我们可以吞下这个？
Yes, because if Kamala Harris came out tomorrow and said, we need to end-- Israel, stop.
是的，因为如果卡马拉·哈里斯明天出来说，我们需要结束——以色列，停止。
If I'm president, I'm not going to give you any more bombs.
如果我是总统，我不会再给你炸弹。
We got to stop it.
我们必须阻止它。
I'd be as pissed as you can imagine, but I'm still voting for Kamala Harris no matter what.
你可以想象我会很生气，但无论如何我仍然投票给卡马拉·哈里斯。
Come on.
快点。
If I can do that.
如果我能做到的话。
By the second day of the convention, Tuesday, it's become clear that Uncommitted isn't going to get much on policy from the Democrats.
到周二的大会第二天，很明显，未承诺党不会从民主党那里得到太多政策信息。
But what they still might get is a speaker, and so they push on it hard.
但他们仍然可能得到的是一个扬声器，所以他们努力推动它。
Abbas is asked about it all the time.
阿巴斯一直被问到这个问题。
He's constantly on his phone, calling people, trying to make it happen, talking to Congress members, people on the Harris campaign, high-ranking DNC officials.
他经常打电话给人们，试图实现这一目标，与国会议员、哈里斯竞选团队的成员、民主党全国委员会的高级官员交谈。
Hello, my friend.
朋友你好。
How are you?
你好吗？
Just checking in on the Palestinian-American speaker request because we've got a press availability at 6 o'clock, and I know there's going to be a ton of reporters who ask me about it.
只是检查一下巴勒斯坦裔美国发言人的请求，因为我们在 6 点有新闻发布会，我知道会有很多记者问我这个问题。
And I want to be able to say yes, but we don't have a yes yet, so I thought I'd check in.
我希望能够答应，但我们还没有得到同意，所以我想我应该签到。
OK.
好的。
Well, I mean, I'll say that.
好吧，我的意思是，我会这么说。
Yeah, I mean, that's what I've been saying, honestly.
是的，我的意思是，老实说，这就是我一直在说的。
I'm saying, we don't have a yes, but we don't have a no. And we remain hopeful.
我是说，我们没有肯定的答案，但也没有否定的答案。我们仍然充满希望。
So I'll keep saying that.
所以我会一直这么说。
OK.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
Well, is there any indication of who specifically there's an openness to?
那么，有没有任何迹象表明具体对谁持开放态度？
That's the problem you said?
这就是你说的问题？
OK.
好的。
I mean, is there a way we can meet while at the convention center and go through some options?
我的意思是，我们可以在会议中心见面并讨论一些选择吗？
Because we can help with that.
因为我们可以提供帮助。
Yeah.
是的。
Abbas Alawieh I don't know, which it's not a bad thing.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 我不知道，但这并不是一件坏事。
We can help them.
我们可以帮助他们。
Like, we know plenty of Palestinian.
就像，我们认识很多巴勒斯坦人。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Zoe Chace You sounded a little discouraged in your voice.
Zoe Chace 你的声音听起来有点沮丧。
So--
所以——
We have such stellar leaders, within the Arab-American community and within the Palestinian-American community that-- I don't want to feel like they have a problem with all of us.
我们在阿拉伯裔美国人社区和巴勒斯坦裔美国人社区内都有如此出色的领导人，我不想让他们觉得他们对我们所有人都有问题。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
And that's certainly not what they're saying.
他们肯定不是这么说的。
If they say no, it could be evidence that might be the case.
如果他们说不，这可能就是事实的证据。
But I really don't think that the folks we're talking to, that that's how they feel.
但我真的不认为与我们交谈的人们有这样的感受。
Abbas is always balancing two very different worlds through his phone.
阿巴斯总是通过手机平衡两个截然不同的世界。
The first, his insider world.
第一，他的内心世界。
He has lots of contacts inside the DNC.
他在民主党全国委员会内部有很多人脉。
He's heard that they're close to getting what he wants, but they can't get to yes.
他听说他们即将得到他想要的东西，但他们无法做到。
The other kind of call he's getting is from friends and family, people in Michigan wanting to know, how are you?
他接到的另一种电话来自朋友和家人，密歇根州的人们想知道，你好吗？
How is it?
如何？
Are you going to get us something?
你要给我们送点东西吗？
Family back in Lebanon call a lot, too.
黎巴嫩的家人也经常打来电话。
This was back in August, when Lebanese militants from Hezbollah and Israel had been trading rocket fire across the border for months.
那是在八月，当时来自真主党和以色列的黎巴嫩武装分子几个月来一直在边境交火。
At one point, Abbas hears from his aunt, who sleeps with slippers under her pillow every night, just in case.
有一次，阿巴斯收到了姨妈的来信，她每天晚上睡觉时都把拖鞋放在枕头下，以防万一。
She had just fled her home in Southern Lebanon and gone north.
她刚刚逃离黎巴嫩南部的家，北上。
And so, yeah, I guess, last night, I got news from my aunt that she couldn't stand the bombing around her anymore, that there was a particular bombing that happened, airstrike that happened that felt too close.
所以，是的，我想，昨晚，我从姨妈那里得到消息，她再也无法忍受周围的轰炸了，发生了一次特别的爆炸，发生了感觉太近的空袭。
She'll say, I'm such a scaredy cat, I couldn't take it anymore.
她会说，我真是一只害怕的猫，我再也受不了了。
But then she turned serious when she was telling me about how my dad was telling her that I'm going on TV and trying to get them to stop the bombings.
但当她告诉我我父亲如何告诉她我要上电视并试图让他们停止爆炸时，她变得严肃起来。
And she expressed concern for my safety.
她对我的安全表示担忧。
She said, is it safe for you to talk about these things?
她说，你谈论这些事情安全吗？
I said, oh, don't worry.
我说哦，别担心。
I'm an American.
我是美国人。
I'm allowed to say whatever I want here.
我可以在这里畅所欲言。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
So his family, they're watching him on the news.
所以他的家人正在看他的新闻。
They're talking about him in the group chat.
他们在群聊中谈论他。
They're telling him what they think of his tactics and his demands.
他们告诉他对他的策略和要求的看法。
And they're also telling him how scared they are.
他们还告诉他他们有多害怕。
He's holding all these things in his head, which he says can be dizzying.
他把所有这些事情都记在脑子里，他说这让人头晕目眩。
He knows just getting a speaker at the DNC doesn't change anything for his family, of course.
当然，他知道仅仅在民主党全国委员会上发表演讲不会给他的家人带来任何改变。
But he believes it would be a powerful symbol that there is a political party in America that sees them, that's listening to them.
但他相信，这将是一个强有力的象征，表明美国有一个政党看到了他们，正在倾听他们的声音。
By midweek, Uncommitted is trying to make the request for a speaker as acceptable as possible.
到周中，Uncommited 正在努力让演讲者的请求尽可能地被接受。
They'd initially asked for two speakers on the stage-- one Uncommitted supporter and a doctor who treated patients in Gaza.
他们最初要求舞台上有两名发言人——一名不承诺的支持者和一名在加沙治疗病人的医生。
But now they simplified that to one speaker.
但现在他们将其简化为一个扬声器。
How about just any Palestinian?
任何巴勒斯坦人怎么样？
They suggest a few Palestinian-American elected Democrats, and they prepare their speeches to be vetted.
他们推荐了一些巴勒斯坦裔美国人当选的民主党人，并准备他们的演讲以供审查。
Still, nothing.
仍然，什么也没有。
Finally, it's Wednesday night, one more day left of the convention.
终于到了周三晚上，距离大会还剩一天。
They still haven't heard yes, and they still haven't heard no. So, yet another press conference outside the arena.
他们仍然没有听到“是”，也仍然没有听到“不”。于是，场外又召开了一场新闻发布会。
Is there room for Palestinian-Americans in this party?
这个政党中有巴勒斯坦裔美国人的地位吗？
Is there room for Palestinian human rights in this party?
这个党内有巴勒斯坦人权的空间吗？
I sure hope, I sure hope that the answer is yes.
我当然希望，我确实希望答案是肯定的。
And with that, all the Uncommitted delegates head inside because there's a speech they want to see.
就这样，所有未承诺的代表都走进去，因为他们想看一场演讲。
The parents of an Israeli hostage kidnapped by Hamas take the stage.
被哈马斯绑架的以色列人质的父母登上舞台。
The Uncommitted delegates tell me it's important to them to be here for this.
Uncommited 代表告诉我，他们来这里参加这个活动很重要。
They think the war is a tragedy.
他们认为战争是一场悲剧。
They want to honor the Israeli victims during their moment.
他们想向以色列受害者致敬。
And yeah, they also want to signal solidarity.
是的，他们也想表达团结的信号。
The parents walk out holding hands.
父母手牵着手走出去。
The father stooped like he's got a weight on him.
父亲弯下腰，好像身上压着重物。
The feeling in the room is like heart in mouth.
房间里的感觉就像是心在口中。
This is really different from most of the speakers so far, who were basically hype men.
这与迄今为止的大多数演讲者确实不同，他们基本上都是炒作者。
The audience breaks into this chant.
观众们开始齐声吟唱。
Rachel Goldberg At this moment, 109 treasured human beings are being held hostage by Hamas in Gaza.
雷切尔·戈德堡 此时此刻，109 名珍贵的人在加沙被哈马斯扣为人质。
Cameras swivel not to the crowd, but directly up at Abbas.
镜头没有转向人群，而是直接转向阿巴斯。
They're snapping pictures of him watching.
他们正在拍他观看的照片。
I'm standing next to him in the corner of the arena with the rest of the Michigan delegates.
我和其他密歇根代表一起站在竞技场角落里的他旁边。
Remember, he's 6' 6".
请记住，他身高 6 英尺 6 英寸。
He's so tall with his keffiyeh.
他戴着头巾，个子很高。
Everyone is standing.
每个人都站着。
He, of course, is standing.
他当然是站着的。
For some reason, they really want to capture his reaction, if he has any, to the parents, watching him watching them.
出于某种原因，他们真的很想捕捉他对父母的反应（如果有的话），看着他看着他们。
His face is expressionless but wet, tears-- tears all over the room, as far as I can tell.
他的脸毫无表情，但湿漉漉的，泪水——据我所知，泪水遍布整个房间。
At the time the parents were speaking, there was good reason to assume their son, Hersh, was still alive.
当父母说话时，有充分的理由认为他们的儿子赫什还活着。
His death was announced almost a week after the convention.
大会结束近一周后，他的死讯被宣布。
One part of this speech in particular will hit Abbas hard.
这篇演讲的一部分尤其会给阿巴斯带来沉重打击。
I know it.
我知道这。
There is a surplus of agony on all sides of the tragic conflict in the Middle East.
中东悲惨冲突的各方都承受着过多的痛苦。
In a competition of pain, there are no winners.
在痛苦的竞争中，没有赢家。
In our Jewish tradition, we say [HEBREW].
在我们的犹太传统中，我们说[希伯来]。
Every person is an entire universe.
每个人都是一个完整的宇宙。
We must save all these universes.
我们必须拯救所有这些宇宙。
In an inflamed Middle East, we know the one thing that can most immediately release pressure and bring calm to the entire region-- a deal that brings this diverse group of 109 hostages home and ends the suffering of the innocent civilians in Gaza.
在战火纷飞的中东，我们知道最能立即释放压力并给整个地区带来平静的一件事就是让这群由 109 名人质组成的多元化群体回家并结束加沙无辜平民的苦难。
[APPLAUSE] Zoe Chace The parents leave the stage, followed by an inexplicable choice of music.
[掌声] Zoe Chace 父母离开舞台，随后是莫名其妙的音乐选择。
And just then, Abbas kind of tears out of the convention hall, as best you can through incredibly crowded, narrow stairs, just makes a break for it.
就在那时，阿巴斯几乎是冲出了会议厅，尽了最大的努力，穿过极其拥挤、狭窄的楼梯，只是为了休息一下。
I see him stop just outside the arena.
我看到他停在竞技场外。
He's in this one weird quiet space, just before the hallway outside.
他就在外面走廊前面这个奇怪的安静空间里。
He's alone, which he never is.
他很孤独，但他从来都不是孤独的。
He covers his face and sobs hard into the wall.
他捂住脸，靠在墙上痛哭起来。
Then he's basically running out through the doors of the venue, through throngs of people outside, trying to talk to him.
然后他基本上是穿过会场的大门，穿过外面的人群，试图与他交谈。
And he's rushing past them.
他正从他们身边冲过去。
I see we're headed to the security gate.
我看到我们正在前往安检门。
We go through the security gate, and we're on the street.
过了安检门，我们就到了大街上。
He doesn't look ready to talk.
他看起来还没准备好说话。
But I have to say something.
但我必须说点什么。
I just got to ask you, why was that so hard?
我只想问你，为什么这么难？
Maybe I can collect myself and we could talk about it later, but what I was thinking about during the speech was, in our tradition, it's essentially if you harm or kill any one person, it's like you've harmed or killed all of humanity.
也许我可以冷静下来，我们可以稍后再讨论，但我在演讲中想到的是，按照我们的传统，本质上，如果你伤害或杀死任何一个人，就好像你伤害或杀死了全人类。
And that's what they spoke about from the stage, about every person being the universe in the Jewish tradition.
这就是他们在舞台上所说的，在犹太传统中，每个人都是宇宙。
And I believe that.
我相信这一点。
I believe that with all my heart.
我全心全意地相信这一点。
I'm just-- I'm feeling really helpless.
我只是——我感到非常无助。
I'm feeling hopeless.
我感到绝望了。
I'm feeling like, [SNIFFLING] of course.
我的感觉是，[抽鼻子]当然。
Of course, we need to hear from these parents.
当然，我们需要听取这些家长的意见。
What about the Palestinians?
那么巴勒斯坦人呢？
What about the over 40,000 who've been killed, who've been obliterated, the 40,000 universes?
那四万多个被杀的人、被抹杀的人、四万个宇宙呢？
There's an active suppression of a giant part of this story.
这个故事的很大一部分都被积极压制。
I can only imagine what they must have been feeling.
我只能想象他们当时的感受。
It must have been very lonely up there.
那里一定很孤独。
And I felt very lonely in that arena.
我在那个舞台上感到非常孤独。
I gotta go, Zoe.
我得走了，佐伊。
I think at that moment, Abbas knew that was all that was going to be said on the stage about the war in Gaza from the people directly affected by the war.
我想在那一刻，阿巴斯知道这就是受战争直接影响的人们在台上要说的关于加沙战争的全部内容。
I head back to the convention hall.
我回到会议厅。
I see a bunch of other Uncommitted delegates outside.
我在外面看到了一群其他未承诺的代表。
They're from all over-- Hawaii, Washington State, Rhode Island.
他们来自世界各地——夏威夷、华盛顿州、罗德岛州。
Some are Arab-American, but not all.
有些是阿拉伯裔美国人，但不是全部。
They got a text to come out and meet.
他们收到短信要求出来见面。
There's a weird empty feeling.
有一种奇怪的空虚感。
Nobody's talking much.
没人说话太多。
It seems like they're all just waiting for Abbas to come back.
看来他们都在等待阿巴斯回来。
There's a physical energy shift out here, a loss of power, a loss of relevance, kind of, in the air, like the opposite of an adrenaline surge, a lonely exhale when the doors close behind you.
这里有一种身体能量的转移，一种力量的丧失，一种相关性的丧失，在空气中，就像肾上腺素激增的相反，当门在你身后关上时，一种孤独的呼气。
But just then, speaking of adrenaline, Abbas rushes back into the scene looking very intense.
但就在这时，谈到肾上腺素，阿巴斯又冲回现场，看上去非常紧张。
He grabs me by the arm and pulls me into a bus shelter that's right in front of the arena so that I'll be able to hear him.
他抓住我的手臂，把我拉到竞技场正前方的公交车候车亭里，这样我就能听到他的声音。
And he's speaking in this uncharacteristically quiet, angry way.
他说话的方式异常安静，充满愤怒。
I'm an insider, OK?
我是内部人士好吗？
People I'm making this ask of are people I know personally.
我提出这个问题的人都是我认识的人。
I've looked them in the face, and I've made a very reasonable ask for us not to be suppressed.
我看着他们的脸，我提出了一个非常合理的要求，要求我们不要受到压制。
If you're not going to agree with us on policy, at least, at least, don't suppress our voices.
如果你不同意我们的政策，至少，至少，不要压制我们的声音。
OK?
好的？
I think I've made a very reasonable ask.
我认为我提出了一个非常合理的要求。
And they called and said the answer is no, point blank.
他们打电话说答案是否定的，直截了当地说。
The answer is no.
答案是否定的。
I said, why-- all that stuff.
我说，为什么——所有这些东西。
They said, I was just told to tell you, the answer is no. And so I have no options left through the way that I am told this is the way to make your voice heard.
他们说，我只是告诉你，答案是否定的。因此，我别无选择，因为我被告知这是让你的声音被听到的方式。
You engage the system.
您参与系统。
So that's what I got to do.
所以这就是我必须做的。
I got to step into my power as a regular, everyday person.
我必须发挥我作为一个普通人的力量。
I have no idea what that means.
我不知道这意味着什么。
And then Abbas turns and strides away, like if he were wearing a cape, it would have swirled behind his body.
然后阿巴斯转身大步走开，就像如果他穿着一件斗篷，斗篷就会在他的身体后面盘旋一样。
My co-reporter Ben is out here, of course.
当然，我的联合记者本也在这里。
And he comes over to me.
他向我走过来。
I just talked to Waleed, he says, one of the leaders and the unofficial press guy for the Uncommitted.
我刚刚和瓦利德谈过，他说，他是不承诺党的领导人之一和非官方媒体人员。
Waleed just told me that people have been calling Abbas to tell him to not say what he's about to say right now, but he won't be talked down.
瓦利德刚刚告诉我，人们一直在给阿巴斯打电话，告诉他不要说出他现在要说的话，但他不会被说服。
OK, got it.
好的，明白了。
Ben Terris So whatever he's about to say, he's been told not to say.
Ben Terris：所以无论他要说什么，他都被告知不要说。
OK.
好的。
Ben Terris Then Abbas calls people over for a press conference.
本·特里斯 然后阿巴斯召集人们参加新闻发布会。
There's a huge mass of press, like five different mics, it seems, from Democracy Now alone.
似乎有大量的媒体，就像五个不同的麦克风，仅来自“立即民主”。
He asks for a moment of silence for all the lives that have been lost in the Gaza War.
他请求为所有在加沙战争中丧生的人默哀片刻。
He recaps the ask for the Palestinian speaker, recaps the no, and then he sits down on the sidewalk and whips out his phone in front of all the reporters.
他重述了对巴勒斯坦发言者的要求，重述了拒绝，然后他坐在人行道上，在所有记者面前拿出手机。
And he calls a DNC official he's been talking to.
他打电话给一直在与他交谈的民主党全国委员会官员。
I gotta make a call.
我得打个电话。
Hey, Roger, how are you?
嘿，罗杰，你好吗？
We're at a press conference right outside.
我们正在外面参加新闻发布会。
OK?
好的？
We tried everything we can.
我们尽了一切努力。
OK, we're just asking to be heard.
好的，我们只是要求被倾听。
We're asking for our voices not to be suppressed.
我们要求我们的声音不要被压制。
And, Roger, you know I'm someone who works within the system.
而且，罗杰，你知道我是体制内工作的人。
OK?
好的？
And the vice president's decision to suppress us is unacceptable.
副总统镇压我们的决定是不可接受的。
And so I've run out of options from my position as a delegate.
因此，作为代表，我已经没有选择了。
And so I'm leaning into my power as a regular, everyday person.
因此，我正在依靠自己作为一个普通人的力量。
And I'm sitting here, and I'm not going anywhere, Roger.
我就坐在这里，哪儿也不去，罗杰。
I'm not going anywhere.
我哪儿也不去。
You all need to change your mind.
你们都需要改变主意。
I hope you change your mind.
我希望你改变主意。
Call me if you change your mind.
如果你改变主意就给我打电话。
Yeah, call me if you change your mind, Roger.
是的，如果你改变主意就给我打电话，罗杰。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Please pass it along.
请传递一下。
Tell the vice president that I'm sitting outside.
告诉副总统我坐在外面。
I'm not going anywhere.
我哪儿也不去。
I hope she changes her mind.
我希望她改变主意。
OK, thank you.
好的，谢谢。
OK, I'm going to be sitting down right here.
好的，我要坐在这里。
I'm not going anywhere.
我哪儿也不去。
If any of my--
如果我的任何一个——
[CHEERING, APPLAUSE] --if any of my Uncommitted delegate siblings choose to sit down with me, please say your name, say who you are, and feel free to take a seat.
[欢呼，掌声]——如果我的任何一位未承诺的代表兄弟姐妹选择和我一起坐下，请说出你的名字，说出你是谁，然后随意坐下。
And also--
还有——
Abbas had pulled his whole community into this effort.
阿巴斯把他的整个社区都拉进了这项努力。
He drew tremendous attention to the Democratic Party's lack of interest in what mattered most to them.
他提请人们极大关注民主党对他们最重要的事情缺乏兴趣。
Now he's drawing attention to a tremendous failure.
现在他正在引起人们对一次巨大失败的关注。
Is it his own?
是他自己的吗？
The Democratic Party's?
民主党的？
Either way, it's got to be crushing.
不管怎样，一定会让人心碎。
What follows is a long night.
接下来就是漫漫长夜。
Inside the convention center-- Oprah speaks, Tim Walz speaks.
在会议中心内——奥普拉在讲话，蒂姆·沃尔兹在讲话。
The whole thing is being broadcast on a big screen that hangs on the United Center wall, just behind the sit-in.
整个事件正在联合中心墙上悬挂的大屏幕上播放，就在静坐的后面。
The screen keeps showing images of the crowd dancing and laughing and giving standing ovations.
屏幕上不断显示人群跳舞、欢笑、起立鼓掌的画面。
But the press has noticed the sit-in, and so had the Harris campaign.
但媒体已经注意到了静坐，哈里斯的竞选团队也注意到了。
At one point, Waleed, the Uncommitted press guy, comes over to us and says, can I tell you something?
有一次，瓦利德（Waleed），一位未承诺的新闻记者，走过来对我们说，我能告诉你一件事吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Waleed Let's go over here.
瓦利德 我们去这里吧。
Every one of the DNC senior staff is standing right there and are trying to make a deal.
民主党全国委员会的每一位高级职员都站在那里，试图达成协议。
And the deal is not-- none of the proposals have anything to do with the speaker or policy change.
这笔交易并非——所有提案都与议长或政策变化无关。
Waleed motions at one of those outdoor bus shelters, and sure enough, there's a clutch of people-- two women and three men-- on their phones, looking in our direction.
瓦利德向其中一个户外公交车候车亭示意，果然，有一群人——两个女人和三个男人——拿着手机，朝我们的方向看去。
One of them was hitting a vape like a steam engine locomotive.
其中一个正在打一个像蒸汽机车一样的电子烟。
It was pretty funny, actually, watching them on their phone with people who were like 100 feet away.
实际上，在 100 英尺外的人面前通过手机观看他们的表演非常有趣。
They're like, a meeting with the campaign manager, a meeting with this person, a meeting with that person--
就像，与竞选经理的会面，与这个人的会面，与那个人的会面——
What about a meeting with Harris?
与哈里斯会面怎么样？
Would that be enough?
这样就够了吗？
Not happening, they said.
他们说，这并没有发生。
Yeah.
是的。
So we said it's going to be a speaker.
所以我们说它将是一个扬声器。
They said no. And--
他们说不。还有——
Have they said why at all?
他们有说过为什么吗？
Waleed Uh, no. They said, how can we get this to end?
瓦利德 呃，不。他们说，我们怎样才能结束这一切？
And I said, well, [CHUCKLES] he wants a speaker.
我说，好吧，[笑]他想要一个演讲者。
And then they said, what else?
然后他们说，还有什么？
And I was like an arms embargo.
我就像武器禁运。
And they were like, well, that's not going to happen.
他们说，好吧，这不会发生。
And so I was like, all right.
所以我想，好吧。
And I'm like, exactly.
我就是这样。
That's why we're asking for a speaker.
这就是我们要求发言人的原因。
[LAUGHS] We've tried to make it easy.
[笑]我们试图让它变得简单。
And so they asked, what's your plan after Thursday, after the convention's over?
所以他们问，周四之后，大会结束后，你有什么计划？
And I was like, well, I think he's betting that you guys will be so embarrassed that he'll give a speaker.
我当时想，好吧，我认为他打赌你们会感到非常尴尬，因为他会发表演讲。
And they're like, well-- I mean, the other thing was they were like, well, she can't give in on the last day of her-- she can't let the last day of the convention be that she's been bullied by young activists and Arab-Americans.
他们就像，嗯-我的意思是，另一件事是他们就像，好吧，她不能在她的最后一天屈服-她不能让大会的最后一天她被年轻的活动人士和阿拉伯裔美国人欺负。
And I was like, that was your decision to wait until the very last minute, so.
我当时想，这是你决定等到最后一刻的决定，所以。
Like to talk this through?
想谈谈这个吗？
Waleed I mean, we are-- I don't know.
瓦利德，我的意思是，我们——我不知道。
They found themselves in this position.
他们发现自己处于这个位置。
Can you picture how it ends at this point?
你能想象到此时它是如何结束的吗？
I think-- Zoe Chace Or are you just as curious as us?
我想—— Zoe Chace 或者你和我们一样好奇吗？
I think we're going to get a speaker.
我想我们会找一位发言人。
I think you can find a Palestinian-American who is palatable for the Democratic Party.
我认为你可以找到一个适合民主党的巴勒斯坦裔美国人。
I mean, this was also like-- I told you this, but several people called me and him to tell us-- allies who've been standing with us told us not to do this.
我的意思是，这也就像 - 我告诉过你这一点，但有几个人打电话给我和他告诉我们 - 一直与我们站在一起的盟友告诉我们不要这样做。
That they thought it made us look fringe and small and-- yeah.
他们认为这让我们看起来边缘而渺小——是的。
Fringe and small, not like organizers who could turn out 100,000 votes in a swing state.
边缘化、规模小，不像组织者可以在摇摆州拉出 10 万张选票。
We've reached out to the Harris campaign about why they didn't agree to a speaker.
我们已经联系了哈里斯竞选团队，询问他们为何不同意发言人。
They declined to do an interview.
他们拒绝接受采访。
Usually, when they talk about this issue, all they'll say is that they're working around the clock on a ceasefire.
通常，当他们谈论这个问题时，他们只会说他们正在夜以继日地努力实现停火。
But they were clearly doing some political calculations on this question around a speaker.
但他们显然是在围绕演讲者对这个问题进行一些政治算计。
My best guess?
我最好的猜测？
They worry that agreeing to a speaker would risk controversy and turn off as many voters as it might appease, including Republicans they hoped to win over.
他们担心，同意一位发言人可能会引发争议，并会让尽可能多的选民失去兴趣，其中包括他们希望赢得的共和党人。
Also, they might not feel like they need an endorsement from Uncommitted.
此外，他们可能觉得自己不需要 Uncommited 的认可。
They feel like they'll be able to pick up a bunch of their voters anyway.
他们觉得无论如何他们都能赢得一批选民。
And they might be right about all that.
他们可能是对的。
The sit-in goes all night without too much drama.
静坐整晚都没有发生太多戏剧性的事情。
They keep sitting the next day in the August heat.
第二天，他们在八月的炎热中继续坐着。
It's tiring.
很累。
They look a little defeated at times.
他们有时看起来有点失败。
They're getting a lot of press attention, though, which is a small win for them.
不过，他们得到了很多媒体的关注，这对他们来说是一个小小的胜利。
In the evening, they give one last press conference.
晚上，他们举行了最后一次新闻发布会。
They end the sit-in, and they head back inside the convention.
他们结束了静坐，然后回到了大会场内。
Help me sing it now, nice and loud.
现在帮我唱吧，又好听又响亮。
Y'all ready to get down and party with me one time?
你们准备好下来和我一起狂欢一次了吗？
DNC, say--
民主党全国委员会，说——
Just not in the mood to party.
只是没有心情去聚会。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
The party is winding down.
聚会即将结束。
Kamala Harris speaks, and then the convention is over.
卡玛拉·哈里斯发表讲话，然后大会结束。
We head outside while people are streaming out of the United Center.
当人们从联合中心球馆涌出时，我们就往外走。
They're carrying giant signs that say "Kamala" and are popping balloons on the street.
他们举着写着“卡马拉”的巨大标牌，并在街上吹气球。
Abbas has barely slept in days, but he's still standing.
阿巴斯已经好几天几乎没有睡觉了，但他仍然站着。
He's in a bind at this point.
此时他陷入了困境。
He came here with leverage, sent by a voting bloc in a swing state.
他带着影响力来到这里，是由一个摇摆州的投票集团派来的。
He said they could be convinced to turn out for Harris if the Harris campaign gave them something in return.
他说，如果哈里斯竞选活动给了他们一些回报，他们可能会被说服支持哈里斯。
But what did they give them?
但他们给了他们什么？
No policy change, no speaker.
没有政策改变，没有发言人。
It was a big risk that these voters could be left even angrier or more hurt or more unheard than they were before.
这些选民可能会比以前更加愤怒、更加受伤或者更加被忽视，这是一个很大的风险。
You don't even know.
你甚至不知道。
And-- Ben Terris Amidst the celebrating from the DNC faithful, a number of people come up to Abbas-- many of them wearing keffiyehs, which have emerged as a sort of visual symbol in support of a ceasefire-- to thank him, to embrace, to tell him to keep up the fight.
在民主党全国委员会信徒的庆祝活动中，许多人走到阿巴斯面前——其中许多人戴着阿拉伯头巾，这种头巾已成为一种支持停火的视觉符号——感谢他，拥抱他，告诉他继续战斗。
And then a woman dressed in all white comes up.
然后一个穿着全白衣服的女人走了过来。
Abbas tells us she's a friend.
阿巴斯告诉我们她是朋友。
Hanging on.
挂着。
You good?
你好吗？
Friend Yeah, I'm good.
朋友 是的，我很好。
She's Arab-American, a friend from Capitol Hill.
她是阿拉伯裔美国人，是国会山的朋友。
And she didn't want us to use her name.
她不希望我们使用她的名字。
She's an aide to a Democratic member of Congress.
她是一位国会民主党议员的助手。
OK, let's build on it.
好的，让我们在此基础上继续发展。
Friend 'Cause I'm tired--
朋友，因为我累了——
Yeah.
是的。
Friend What scares me is what if this movement doesn't move them?
朋友，让我害怕的是，如果这个运动不能感动他们怎么办？
And if we don't succeed, Trump, he's going to destroy the entire Middle East, Abbas.
如果我们不成功，特朗普，他将摧毁整个中东，阿巴斯。
They have so offended our people.
他们如此冒犯了我们的人民。
They have so--
他们有这样的——
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
Abbas Alawieh --offended our people, our people being people for whom Gaza is a top policy issue.
阿巴斯·阿拉维赫——冒犯了我们的人民，对我们的人民来说，加沙是首要政策问题。
I know.
我知道。
Abbas Alawieh They have so offended them that, in my opinion, the people who we're inspiring and we're animating and we're motivating are so pissed off-- are so pissed off by 16,000 children dead and not have that mentioned from the stage, that this is like-- they're like, I don't want anything to do with any of this.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶（Abbas Alawieh）：在我看来，他们如此冒犯了他们，以至于我们所鼓舞、激励和鼓舞的人们非常生气——他们对 16,000 名儿童的死亡感到非常生气，而舞台上却没有提到这一点，他们就像——我不想与这一切有任何关系。
I don't even want to vote.
我什至不想投票。
Abbas, we don't want that.
阿巴斯，我们不希望这样。
Abbas, we don't want that.
阿巴斯，我们不希望这样。
We can't have people think that.
我们不能让人们这么想。
People have to come out.
人们必须走出来。
You gotta give them something to vote for.
你必须给他们一些东西来投票。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
We know what to not vote for.
我们知道什么不该投票。
Staying inside is like-- and I know with Trump, he's going to fuck us over.
呆在家里就像——我知道特朗普，他会把我们操死的。
There is no Palestinian anymore.
不再有巴勒斯坦人了。
It's destroyed.
它被毁了。
The entire Middle East is done.
整个中东都完了。
We're done.
我们完成了。
Yes, create this movement.
是的，创建这个运动。
Create this platform for us.
为我们打造这个平台。
Give us this national recognition, a platform, which this has done.
给我们这个国家的认可，一个平台，这已经做到了。
But we can't have people not go out and vote.
但我们不能让人们不出去投票。
There needs to be--
需要有——
But what I'm telling you is unless we unless we intervene, those people aren't going to go out and vote right now.
但我要告诉你的是，除非我们干预，否则那些人现在不会出去投票。
If the election was tomorrow, they're not convinced that Trump is going to be different on this issue.
如果选举是在明天，他们不相信特朗普会在这个问题上有所不同。
No, but he will be.
不，但他会的。
Abbas Alawieh I know.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 我知道。
I know that.
我知道。
Abbas, he will be.
阿巴斯，他会的。
Abbas Alawieh I know that.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 我知道这一点。
So but this movement has a responsibility to make sure our people know.
所以，这个运动有责任确保我们的人民知道。
I hear you.
我听到了。
Friend [CRYING] We can't have Trump.
朋友[哭泣]我们不能拥有特朗普。
But if our people can't get what we want-- and we're used to that-- we still have to go out and vote.
但如果我们的人民不能得到我们想要的东西——我们已经习惯了——我们仍然必须出去投票。
And we try again next election cycle.
我们在下一个选举周期再次尝试。
We keep trying.
我们不断努力。
But we can't have Trump win.
但我们不能让特朗普获胜。
And you got to make sure.
你必须确定。
You've led this.
你领导了这一切。
You've led this amazing, beautiful movement.
你们领导了这场令人惊奇、美丽的运动。
You created this.
你创造了这个。
And that includes necessarily having the tough conversations about Trump.
这包括必然要就特朗普进行艰难的对话。
I mean--
我的意思是——
But our people can't just be sitting home.
但我们的人民不能只是坐在家里。
Come spend some time with me in Michigan and hear about how people are talking about Trump.
来和我一起在密歇根度过一段时间，听听人们如何谈论特朗普。
Now Abbas has to go home to Michigan, Dearborn, and have the hard conversations.
现在阿巴斯必须回到密歇根州迪尔伯恩的家，进行艰难的对话。
He wants Harris to win.
他希望哈里斯获胜。
He convinced a lot of people to vote uncommitted so they could nudge her position on Gaza and Israel.
他说服了很多人不表态地投票，这样他们就可以推动她在加沙和以色列问题上的立场。
They didn't succeed at that.
他们没有成功。
How can he possibly get them to vote for Harris when he's coming back empty-handed?
当他空手而归时，他怎么可能让他们投票给哈里斯呢？
Zoe Chace and Ben Terris.
佐伊·切斯和本·特里斯。
We go to Michigan in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，我们从芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后就将前往密歇根州。
Act Two: Back Home in Michigan Ira Glass It's This American Life.
第二幕：回到密歇根州艾拉·格拉斯的家，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, "A Little Bit of Power." Ben Terris and Zoe Chace now continue their story about Abbas Alawieh and his bloc of uncommitted voters.
今天的节目是《一点点力量》。本·泰里斯 (Ben Terris) 和佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace) 现在继续讲述阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 (Abbas Alawieh) 和他的一群不忠选民的故事。
They pick up the story three weeks after the Democratic National Convention.
他们在民主党全国代表大会三周后得知了这个故事。
It's now mid-September.
现在已经九月中旬了。
Abbas and other uncommitted leaders organize a community meeting in Michigan.
阿巴斯和其他未表态的领导人在密歇根州组织了一次社区会议。
Remember, Abbas helped convince 100,000 Michigan voters to check the box for uncommitted in the primary.
请记住，阿巴斯帮助说服了 100,000 名密歇根州选民在初选中勾选了未承诺的选项。
Now, if they don't flip back and vote Democratic, it could really determine the results in Michigan.
现在，如果他们不回头投票给民主党，这可能真正决定密歇根州的结果。
And without Michigan, Harris could really lose.
如果没有密歇根州，哈里斯可能真的会输。
That little bit of power it felt like they had back in February has not gotten them an arms embargo, a ceasefire, any suggestion of a policy change from Kamala Harris, or even a speaker on the stage of the Democratic National Convention.
他们在二月份所拥有的那一点点权力并没有让他们获得武器禁运、停火、卡马拉·哈里斯提出的任何政策改变建议，甚至没有让他们在民主党全国代表大会的舞台上发言。
Still, Abbas and the Uncommitted leadership need to deliver some kind of guidance about what to do to these same voters.
尽管如此，阿巴斯和不承诺党领导层仍需要就如何对待这些选民提供某种指导。
So we're in Dearborn, where this movement began in the first place.
我们来到了迪尔伯恩，这是这场运动最初开始的地方。
Many people here have family in the Middle East and lots, like Abbas, in Lebanon, which has been bombed and invaded by Israeli ground forces.
这里的许多人在中东和很多地方都有家人，比如阿巴斯在黎巴嫩，黎巴嫩遭到以色列地面部队的轰炸和入侵。
The day we arrive is just before that.
我们到达的那天就在那之前。
It's the day a bunch of pagers exploded all over Lebanon in an Israeli attack that killed dozens of people and injured thousands.
就在这一天，以色列发动袭击，导致黎巴嫩各地寻呼机爆炸，造成数十人死亡、数千人受伤。
Abbas's phone is flooded with messages from his family in Lebanon, who are really frightened.
阿巴斯的手机里充斥着他在黎巴嫩的家人发来的信息，他们真的很害怕。
Even people in Dearborn seem freaked out by their phones.
就连迪尔伯恩的人们似乎也被手机吓坏了。
Abbas has this dread hanging over him of what's to come.
阿巴斯对即将发生的事情感到恐惧。
Before the meeting, we meet Abbas at the coffee shop in town he calls "the office." He's scrolling through his laptop, through the statement he's going to read.
会议之前，我们在镇上他称之为“办公室”的咖啡店见到了阿巴斯。他正在笔记本电脑上滚动，浏览他将要阅读的声明。
Are you nervous at all going into tonight?
今晚你紧张吗？
I didn't think I was.
我不认为我是。
And then I felt like I was going to throw up earlier, and I don't know if it was related to this, but it might have been.
然后我感觉我要早点吐了，我不知道这是否与此有关，但可能是。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
[LAUGHS] Zoe Chace This is a tough crowd he's about to face.
[笑] Zoe Chace 他将要面对的是一群艰难的人群。
It's a bunch of people who are going to render a verdict on what he's been doing, and he's balancing a lot at once.
一群人将对他所做的事情做出裁决，而他同时也在平衡很多事情。
He does still want people to vote for Harris, but Uncommitted promised they wouldn't mobilize Get Out the Vote operations for Harris without getting something from the campaign.
他确实仍然希望人们投票给哈里斯，但未承诺承诺在没有从竞选活动中得到任何东西的情况下，他们不会为哈里斯动员投票行动。
Later that evening, Abbas joins Uncommitted voters and organizers at this huge Islamic community center in town.
当天晚上晚些时候，阿巴斯与未承诺的选民和组织者一起来到镇上这个巨大的伊斯兰社区中心。
It's got tiled floors.
它有瓷砖地板。
It's very echoey.
非常有回声。
Chairs are set up in rows facing a panel of speakers.
椅子排成一排，面向扬声器面板。
It definitely does not have a cozy vibe.
它绝对没有舒适的氛围。
It does not feel like it's set up for a discussion.
感觉这不是为了讨论而设置的。
Maybe 50 people show up.
也许有 50 人出现。
They're primarily older Arab men from the area, and it feels a bit like a meeting of the dads.
他们主要是来自该地区的年长阿拉伯男性，感觉有点像父亲们的聚会。
The organizers sit at a long table with microphones and talk for a while about what they have accomplished and how they got here.
组织者坐在一张带有麦克风的长桌旁，谈论了他们所取得的成就以及他们是如何走到这一步的。
And finally, they talk about what's next.
最后，他们讨论了接下来的事情。
Abbas delivers Uncommitted's official word.
阿巴斯发表了未承诺的官方声明。
At this time, our movement, number one, cannot endorse Vice President Harris.
目前，我们的第一运动不能支持哈里斯副总统。
We've been very clear that the word "endorse" is a very specific thing.
我们非常清楚，“认可”这个词是一个非常具体的东西。
It means our organization that did 1.5 million voter contacts, that proactively reached out to people and told them to vote uncommitted, we had said very clearly, publicly-- publicly to our community and to the vice president's team-- if you change your policy, we will endorse.
这意味着我们的组织与 150 万选民进行了联系，主动与人们接触并告诉他们不要投票，我们已经非常明确地公开说过——公开向我们的社区和副总统团队——如果你改变你的政策，我们将支持。
And endorsing means we'll get out the vote for Vice President Harris.
认可意味着我们将投票给副总统哈里斯。
Her campaign made it impossible for us to endorse.
她的竞选活动使我们无法支持。
Now, that might mean that some of us still vote for Kamala Harris.
现在，这可能意味着我们中的一些人仍然投票给卡马拉·哈里斯。
Some of us vote against her.
我们中的一些人投票反对她。
Some of us might not vote at the top of the ticket.
我们中的一些人可能不会在选票的顶部投票。
And that's the conversation we want to invite.
这就是我们想要邀请的对话。
But an endorsement would mean us mobilizing.
但支持就意味着我们要动员起来。
Number two, we oppose a Donald Trump presidency, whose agenda includes plans to accelerate the killing in Gaza while intensifying the suppression of anti-war organizing.
第二，我们反对唐纳德·特朗普担任总统，其议程包括计划加速加沙的杀戮，同时加强对反战组织的镇压。
And number three, we are not recommending a third party vote in the presidential election, especially as a third party vote in key swing states like Michigan could help inadvertently deliver a Trump presidency given our country's broken electoral college system.
第三，我们不建议在总统选举中进行第三方投票，特别是考虑到我国破碎的选举团制度，在密歇根等关键摇摆州进行第三方投票可能会无意中帮助特朗普当选总统。
OK, so that's what the statement says.
好吧，声明就是这么说的。
And I wanted to make sure that you all hear it.
我想确保你们都听到了。
And I want--
我想要——
Huh?
啊？
The feeling in the room is people are confused at this muddled statement, which does not endorse Harris but seems to be telling them to vote for her anyway, and definitely do not vote for Trump or a third party.
房间里的感觉是，人们对这种混乱的声明感到困惑，它并不支持哈里斯，但似乎告诉他们无论如何都要投票给她，并且绝对不要投票给特朗普或第三方。
When it's finally time for questions, many hands go up.
当终于到提问时间时，许多人举手了。
An early question is about strategy.
早期的一个问题是关于策略的。
Are we throwing away the power of our voting bloc by not recommending one person for us all to vote for?
我们是否因为不推荐一个人供我们所有人投票而放弃了我们投票集团的权力？
So now how are you going to count our votes?
那么现在你要如何清点我们的选票呢？
The second thing is why don't we-- I know the third party is not viable, but isn't it better that we put our vote there so we can count them, the percentage at least?
第二件事是我们为什么不——我知道第三方不可行，但我们把投票放在那里，这样我们就可以计算它们，至少计算百分比，不是更好吗？
We can say that 1%, 2%, 3%, especially in our community in Michigan.
我们可以说是 1%、2%、3%，尤其是在我们密歇根州的社区。
Abbas is pretty mad about the way the Green Party has been talking to voters in this part of the state.
阿巴斯对该州该地区绿党与选民交谈的方式感到非常愤怒。
And he jumps in.
然后他跳了进去。
I want to take a moment specifically to address the third party question, because I know it's a question that folks might have.
我想花点时间专门解决第三方问题，因为我知道这是人们可能会问的问题。
My concern is with any candidate that comes to our community and says things like, I have a shot at winning.
我担心的是任何来到我们社区并说“我有机会获胜”之类的话的候选人。
And if you vote for Trump or for Harris, you endorse the genocide.
如果你投票给特朗普或哈里斯，你就支持种族灭绝。
And the only way not to endorse the genocide is to vote for me.
不支持种族灭绝的唯一方法就是投票给我。
I am very concerned about that.
我对此非常担心。
They get asked about a third party over and over again-- Jill Stein, the Green Party-- she says no more war; we're going to stop Israel.
他们一次又一次被问及第三方的问题——吉尔·斯坦，绿党——她说不再有战争；她说不再有战争。我们要阻止以色列。
And she's been making a real play in this area, Southern Michigan, committing to no more war specifically.
她一直在密歇根州南部这一地区做出了真正的贡献，并明确承诺不再发动战争。
And another thing people are asking-- Democrats need to learn to listen to us.
人们问的另一件事是——民主党人需要学会倾听我们的意见。
How else will they listen if we don't withhold our vote from them?
如果我们不拒绝他们的投票，他们怎么会听呢？
Some people at the meeting are sick of listening to Abbas altogether.
会议上的一些人已经厌倦了听阿巴斯的讲话。
And I'm voting my conscience as a physician, which means no genocide.
我以医生的良心投票，这意味着不存在种族灭绝。
I'm voting my conscience as a physician, which means no genocide, he says.
他说，我以医生的良心投票，这意味着没有种族灭绝。
We as a community see that the Uncommitted now itself doesn't know what it's doing.
作为一个社区，我们看到 Uncommited 现在本身并不知道自己在做什么。
If you, by next week, don't come up with a clear ask-- no to genocide-- then you don't represent us.
如果到下周你还没有提出明确的要求——拒绝种族灭绝——那么你就不能代表我们。
Please dissolve.
请解散。
And going forward, you do not represent us.
展望未来，你不再代表我们。
You represent your interests, your individuals.
您代表您的利益、您的个人。
And that is my goal.
这就是我的目标。
Vote third party.
投票第三方。
And we know Trump is terrible.
我们知道特朗普很糟糕。
We are not stupid.
我们并不傻。
But he will stop the genocide.
但他会阻止种族灭绝。
He might do worse things, but he will stop the genocide.
他可能会做更糟糕的事情，但他会阻止种族灭绝。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
We're going to do one more comment over here.
我们将在这里再发表一项评论。
The meeting ends pretty abruptly, but no one leaves.
会议结束得很突然，但没有人离开。
People stay trying to talk to Abbas and the other organizers.
人们仍在尝试与阿巴斯和其他组织者交谈。
They have a lot of feedback.
他们有很多反馈。
Remember, most of these guys voted uncommitted in the primary.
请记住，这些人中的大多数人在初选时都没有投票。
Some of them volunteered, organized, phone banked, like this guy Amin Hashmi, who's one of many swarming Abbas after the meeting is over.
他们中的一些人是自愿的、有组织的、有电话银行的，比如阿明·哈什米（Amin Hashmi），他是会议结束后众多蜂拥而至的阿巴斯之一。
He's considering voting for Trump.
他正在考虑投票给特朗普。
I've been praying for the last two months.
过去两个月我一直在祈祷。
I'm going to pray more.
我要多祈祷。
Make sure in three weeks, I'm telling you, Trump will change his position.
我告诉你，确保三周后特朗普会改变他的立场。
I'm guaranteeing you because he's changing already.
我向你保证，因为他已经在改变了。
Do you remember in the second debate, he said, Arabs are also dying?
你还记得在第二场辩论中，他说，阿拉伯人也在死亡吗？
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
No, I saw.
不，我看到了。
He was trying to speak to us.
他试图和我们说话。
Right.
正确的。
Abbas Alawieh But what Trump says?
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 但特朗普怎么说呢？
We can't believe what Trump says.
我们无法相信特朗普所说的话。
Yeah, but come on.
是的，但是来吧。
I mean, Democrats also do the same thing.
我的意思是，民主党人也做同样的事情。
True, true.
真的，真的。
Amin Hashmi Let's see if he comes up openly and says something, instead of private, let's see if he does that.
阿明·哈什米（Amin Hashmi）让我们看看他是否公开发言并说些什么，而不是私下，让我们看看他是否这样做。
If he does that, I would vote for Trump, man.
如果他这样做，我会投票给特朗普，伙计。
I wouldn't recommend it.
我不会推荐它。
I think he's a bad guy.
我认为他是个坏人。
But what else do you have?
但你还有什么呢？
I mean, they have not changed their position.
我的意思是，他们没有改变立场。
Neither have not moved.
两人都没有动过。
It's going to be one or the other.
这将是其中之一。
And under Trump, it would be a lot worse, in my opinion.
在我看来，在特朗普的领导下，情况会更糟。
Right, but how would you change Kamala?
是的，但是你会如何改变卡马拉呢？
I mean, has not done-- 10 months, didn't do anything.
我的意思是，10个月以来，什么也没做。
Right.
正确的。
Amin Hashmi What strategy do you have left?
阿明·哈希米 你还剩下什么策略？
I think our-- Amin Hashmi You have only four weeks left.
我想我们的——阿明·哈什米（Amin Hashmi）你只剩下四个星期了。
You are hoping against hope.
你正在怀着希望。
And here's what-- no, no, no. I'm not hoping.
这就是——不，不，不。我不抱希望。
I'm organizing, OK?
我正在组织，好吗？
I know.
我知道。
Abbas Alawieh Because here's what we've been doing in the meantime.
Abbas Alawieh 因为这就是我们在此期间一直在做的事情。
Whatever happened with DNC, it's a shame for us, man.
不管民主党全国委员会发生了什么，这对我们来说都是一种耻辱，伙计。
I'm telling you.
我告诉你。
Right, right.
对，对。
No, but what I'm telling you--
不，但我要告诉你的是——
I felt bad for you sitting outside, like encamping outside.
我为你坐在外面感到难过，就像在外面露营一样。
I mean, this is nonsense.
我的意思是，这是无稽之谈。
It doesn't look good.
看起来不太好。
And it's already showing they're neck to neck right now, right?
现在已经表明他们并驾齐驱了，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
Amin Hashmi All the polls are showing it's back and forth.
阿明·哈希米 所有的民意调查都显示它是来回的。
It's swinging, three or four states.
它摇摆不定，三四个州。
So it's already there.
所以它已经在那里了。
Why she is not feeling the pain?
为什么她感觉不到疼痛？
She doesn't want White House?
她不想要白宫？
What is her strategy?
她的策略是什么？
Who is telling her behind that, no, it's OK-- you can live without Muslims or Arab votes?
谁在背后告诉她，不，没关系——没有穆斯林或阿拉伯人的选票你也能生活？
Let's keep the conversation going.
让我们继续谈话吧。
Great to see you.
很高兴见到你。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Ben Terris Abbas knows pretty much everyone in this room, and some for sure are offering their support, like nice job.
本·特里斯·阿巴斯几乎认识这个房间里的每个人，有些人肯定会提供支持，比如干得好。
I get the feeling that most of these guys, though, are thinking like this voter, Rifaat Dika.
不过，我感觉这些人中的大多数人都像这位选民 Rifaat Dika 一样思考。
He's Lebanese, lived in Dearborn for 40 years now, and he's not convinced.
他是黎巴嫩人，在迪尔伯恩生活了 40 年，但他并不相信。
I am voting third party.
我投票给第三方。
I'm not part of a third party.
我不属于第三方。
I'm not the Green.
我不是绿党
But I'm a Democrat.
但我是民主党人。
But if I want to vote my conscience this time without political calculations--
但如果这次我想凭良心投票，不带政治算计的话——
I mean, I don't mean to say the most obvious thing.
我的意思是，我并不是想说最明显的事情。
I just want to know what you think.
我只是想知道你的想法。
Michigan went to Trump 2016 by 10,000 votes.
2016 年密歇根州以 10,000 票的优势支持特朗普。
If you vote third party, you're not voting for Harris.
如果你投票给第三方，你就不会投票给哈里斯。
So you're taking a vote away from Harris.
所以你夺走了哈里斯的一票。
As Abbas heads for the door, people are still coming up to him, making the case for voting third party.
当阿巴斯走向门口时，人们仍然向他走来，为投票给第三方提供理由。
One Uncommitted leader I talked to worried that maybe this whole thing had backfired, that by making it so visible that the Democrats weren't listening, by asking so publicly for a speaker and then not getting it, they lost more votes for Harris.
我采访过的一位不表态的领导人担心，这整件事可能会适得其反，因为让事情变得如此明显，以至于民主党没有在听，通过如此公开地要求一位发言人，然后却没有得到，他们失去了更多的选票给哈里斯。
Who's going to support a party that humiliated us like that?
谁会支持这样羞辱我们的政党？
I asked Abbas about this.
我向阿巴斯询问了此事。
And so it's arguable that maybe people got more turned off by the Democratic Party because of that whole thing.
因此，有争议的是，也许正是因为这整件事，人们对民主党更加反感了。
And do you think about that, and how do you think about it?
你有没有想过这个问题？你是如何看待这个问题的？
Yeah, I do think about it.
是的，我确实考虑过。
And I think that's why the Democratic Party shouldn't continue engaging in this kind of discrimination.
我认为这就是为什么民主党不应该继续进行这种歧视。
But you don't think that it possibly turned off more voters?
但你不认为这可能会让更多选民望而却步吗？
I mean, I think it's possible that it turned off more voters.
我的意思是，我认为这可能会让更多选民望而却步。
That's why the Democratic Party shouldn't have made that decision.
这就是为什么民主党不应该做出这个决定。
But it never makes you question your tactics.
但这永远不会让你质疑你的策略。
I didn't make that decision, Zoe.
我没有做出那个决定，佐伊。
I don't think they should have done it.
我认为他们不应该这样做。
For me, as someone who experienced the discrimination, I don't think it's appropriate for me to be asked and for our group to be asked.
对我来说，作为一个经历过歧视的人，我认为我和我们的团队被问到这个问题是不合适的。
But don't you think that you shouldn't have put the group that discriminated against you in a position to discriminate against you?
但你难道不认为你不应该让那些歧视你的群体也歧视你吗？
I don't think that's a fair thing to ask of us.
我认为对我们提出这样的要求并不公平。
Abbas had hoped that the Uncommitted movement would be out now, making calls, knocking on doors, mobilizing people, like they did in the primary, but for Harris this time.
阿巴斯曾希望“不承诺”运动现在就能够展开，打电话、上门、动员人们，就像他们在初选时所做的那样，但这次是为了哈里斯。
That's not happening.
那并没有发生。
He figures the best thing he can do with the time left is talk to people, person by person in his life, to convince people not to vote for Trump or for a third party.
他认为，在剩下的时间里，他能做的最好的事情就是与人们交谈，一个人一个人地交谈，说服人们不要投票给特朗普或第三方。
One of those people is his own dad.
其中之一就是他自己的父亲。
He was at that community meeting and still isn't sure how he's going to vote.
他参加了那次社区会议，但仍然不确定他将如何投票。
We meet up with his dad at his warehouse in town.
我们在他的镇上仓库与他父亲见面。
He is in sales, not car sales, though.
不过，他从事的是销售工作，而不是汽车销售工作。
Abbas was trying to convince him.
阿巴斯试图说服他。
It's two options.
这是两个选择。
One of them is going to be president, so we have to vote against Trump and for Harris.
其中一人将成为总统，因此我们必须投票反对特朗普并投票支持哈里斯。
That's how I feel about it.
我就是这么想的。
But do you think that resonates?
但你认为这能引起共鸣吗？
Do you think people are going to understand that?
你认为人们会理解这一点吗？
No. Baba, even me, you know how much I love you.
不，爸爸，即使是我，你也知道我有多爱你。
And even if you want blood, I will give you my blood.
即使你想要血，我也会给你我的血。
But for this one, I'm not convinced to give her my voice.
但对于这一次，我不相信给她我的声音。
I'm not convinced.
我不相信。
Do you think if she moves before November 5, you might?
你认为如果她在 11 月 5 日之前搬家，你可能会搬家吗？
If she gives, we will give.
如果她给予，我们也会给予。
But if she wants only to take, we are not going to give.
但如果她只想索取，我们就不会给予。
That's it.
就是这样。
You stand with my people, I will give you my vote.
你与我的人民站在一起，我会给你投票。
You stand against my people, you are not going to see my vote.
你反对我的人民，你不会看到我的投票。
That's it.
就是这样。
Easy.
简单的。
And--
还有——
Abbas is one of our leaders that we are so proud of him-- and not as a dad, but as a community.
阿巴斯是我们的领导人之一，我们为他感到骄傲——不是作为一个父亲，而是作为一个社区。
And because we are proud of him, we don't want him to fall in a hole in losing his principles.
因为我们为他感到骄傲，所以我们不希望他陷入失去原则的困境。
Yeah.
是的。
Abbas Alawieh Yeah.
阿巴斯·阿拉维耶 是的。
Do you think me voting for Harris means I'm losing my principles?
你认为我投票给哈里斯意味着我失去了原则吗？
For right now, I'm not happy with that.
目前，我对此并不满意。
That's what I want to say.
这就是我想说的。
Conversations like that have only gotten harder to have.
这样的对话只会变得更加困难。
The war in Lebanon has escalated.
黎巴嫩战事进一步升级。
It all feels very close to home in Dearborn.
在迪尔伯恩，一切都感觉非常接近家。
Abbas was recently at the funeral of a friend's father who was killed in Lebanon.
阿巴斯最近参加了一位在黎巴嫩被杀的朋友父亲的葬礼。
Honestly, every day feels like a funeral, some people told us.
老实说，有些人告诉我们，每天都像一场葬礼。
People are so upset and so consumed by what's happening overseas, it really doesn't feel like a time to have these difficult conversations about the presidential election.
人们对海外发生的事情感到非常沮丧和着迷，现在真的不适合就总统选举进行这些艰难的对话。
Still, the polls in Michigan continue to be incredibly close.
尽管如此，密歇根州的民意调查仍然非常接近。
The Harris campaign has made some attempts to reach out to Arab and Muslim voters recently.
哈里斯竞选团队最近做出了一些接触阿拉伯和穆斯林选民的尝试。
VP nominee Tim Walz met with a Muslim political organization which endorsed Harris.
副总统候选人蒂姆·沃尔兹会见了一个支持哈里斯的穆斯林政治组织。
A group of 25 imams threw their support behind Harris, saying in an open letter that she represents, quote, "the best option for ending the bloodshed in Gaza and now Lebanon."
由 25 名伊玛目组成的团体支持哈里斯，并在一封公开信中表示，她代表“结束加沙和黎巴嫩流血事件的最佳选择”。
One Uncommitted organizer told us, listen, it's just too late to change minds.
一位 Uncommited 组织者告诉我们，听着，现在改变主意已经太晚了。
People she's talking to are sure they will not be supporting Kamala Harris, no matter what she does.
与她交谈的人确信，无论卡马拉·哈里斯做什么，他们都不会支持她。
Abbas was not impressed by those gestures from the Harris campaign.
阿巴斯对哈里斯竞选团队的这些举动并没有留下深刻的印象。
He said that is an insular, limited, and woefully inadequate approach that does not do much of anything to persuade people.
他说，这是一种孤立的、有限的、严重不足的方法，对说服人们没有任何作用。
Credits Ira Glass Ben Terris with Zoe Chace.
图片来源：Ira Glass Ben Terris 和 Zoe Chace。
Zoe is a producer on our show.
佐伊是我们节目的制片人。
Ben is a political reporter for The Washington Post and the author of the book, The Big Break, The Gamblers, Party Animals, and True Believers Trying to Win Washington While America Loses Its Mind.
本是《华盛顿邮报》的政治记者，也是《大突破》、《赌徒、派对动物》和《在美国失去理智时试图赢得华盛顿的真正信徒》一书的作者。
Well, our program was produced today by Lilly Sullivan.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由莉莉·沙利文制作的。
The people who put together today's show include Jendayi Bonds, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Valerie Kipnis, Henry Larson, Tobin Low, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Ike Sriskandarajah, Laura Starecheski, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Jendayi Bonds、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Valerie Kipnis、Henry Larson、Tobin Low、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Ike Sriskandarajah、Laura Starecheski、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Nancy Updike、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Asma Mohammad, Layla Elabed, Lexi Zeidan, Abbas Al Haj Ahmad, Saul Levin, Jeremiah Ellison, Bernie Porn, Rima Mohammad, Bilal Bedoun, Jordan Acker, The Washington Post Style Section, and The Post Reports podcast.
今天特别感谢 Asma Mohammad、Layla Elabed、Lexi Zeidan、Abbas Al Haj Ahmad、Saul Levin、Jeremiah Ellison、Bernie Porn、Rima Mohammad、Bilal Bedoun、Jordan Acker、《华盛顿邮报》风格版块和《华盛顿邮报》报道播客。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 800 多集档案。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's confounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的混杂者 Torey Malatia 先生。
He got a Rolex the other day.
前几天他得到了一块劳力士。
All he does now is party with his new Rolex friends.
他现在所做的就是和他的劳力士新朋友一起聚会。
Overnight, an extremely unusual watch party.
一夜之间，一场极其不寻常的观看派对。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。