840: How Are You Not Seeing This? - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #840 | September 13, 2024 840: How Are You Not Seeing This?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 840 集 | 2024 年 9 月 13 日 840：你怎么没看到这个？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Tobin Low From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 Tobin Low 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是美国生活。
I'm Tobin Low, in for Ira Glass.
我是托宾·洛 (Tobin Low)，代表艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
You may have heard of comedian Tig Notaro, but if you're a gay person like me, you have really heard of Tig Notaro.
你可能听说过喜剧演员蒂格·诺塔罗，但如果你是像我一样的同性恋者，你真的听说过蒂格·诺塔罗。
She is what I would call gay famous, which makes the story of what happened to her so surprising.
她是我所说的同性恋名人，这使得发生在她身上的故事如此令人惊讶。
She and her wife, Stephanie, have two kids, twin boys.
她和她的妻子斯蒂芬妮有两个孩子，是双胞胎男孩。
And after seven years of living in the same house with Stephanie and Tig, having their two moms tend to every meal and butt wipe, seven years of the boys telling their teachers and random whoevers that they have two moms, they're all in the car on the way to first grade one morning.
与斯蒂芬妮和蒂格住在同一所房子里七年之后，他们的两个妈妈负责每顿饭和擦屁股，七年来男孩们告诉他们的老师和随机的人他们有两个妈妈，一天早上他们都在车里去一年级。
Stephanie and I were just in the front seat talking, and they were in the back seat talking, like we always do.
斯蒂芬妮和我只是在前座说话，他们也在后座说话，就像我们平常做的那样。
And then Stephanie said something about us being gay.
然后斯蒂芬妮说了一些关于我们是同性恋的事情。
And our son, Finn, leans forward and pokes his head between us, and he says, you're gay?
我们的儿子芬恩向前倾身，把头伸到我们中间，他说，你是同性恋？
We were obviously just as shocked as he was.
我们显然和他一样震惊。
We were like, uh, yeah.
我们就像，呃，是的。
And he said, what's "gay"?
他说，什么是“同性恋”？
And that was a whole other level of stunned.
那是另一种程度的震惊。
Oh, my gosh.
哦，天哪。
How is this information only just now coming out?
怎么这个信息现在才出来？
Tig's been with her wife for over a decade.
蒂格和她的妻子在一起已经十多年了。
And as far as they knew, they've been gay for the entirety of their children's lives.
据他们所知，他们的孩子一生都是同性恋。
But apparently, it was news to Max and Finn.
但显然，这对麦克斯和芬恩来说是新闻。
Then I started to feel insecure, thinking, oh, my gosh, here he's lived over seven years not knowing he had gay parents.
然后我开始感到不安全，心想，哦，天哪，他在这里生活了七年多了，却不知道自己有同性恋父母。
What if he's upset now?
如果他现在不高兴怎么办？
What if he doesn't like his life or his family, or he's disappointed in some way, or--
如果他不喜欢自己的生活或家庭，或者他在某些方面感到失望，或者——
What's the first thing you say back to him when he asked that question?
当他问这个问题时，你回答他的第一句话是什么？
I was saying, OK, so gay is when a boy likes a boy, or a girl likes a girl.
我说，好吧，同性恋就是男孩喜欢男孩，或者女孩喜欢女孩。
And that would be specific to being gay.
这对于同性恋来说是特有的。
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
嗯嗯，嗯嗯。
Tig Notaro And they were just like, oh, OK.
Tig Notaro 他们就说，哦，好吧。
Before Tig can say more, they're pulling up in front of the school.
蒂格还没来得及说更多，他们就在学校门口停下了。
The car ride is only a couple minutes long.
车程仅需几分钟。
And then the kids are running out of the car, and Tig and her wife are left to wonder how their sons had possibly not seen something right in front of their faces.
然后孩子们跑下车，蒂格和她的妻子想知道他们的儿子怎么可能没有看到就在他们面前的东西。
And we drove away, maybe going half a mile an hour.
然后我们开车离开，也许每小时半英里。
We were so stunned.
我们都惊呆了。
Stephanie and I glanced at each other like, what in the hell just happened?
斯蒂芬妮和我互相看了一眼，心想，到底发生了什么？
Do you have a moment after this comes out where you're like, oh, no, what kind of parent am I that this hasn't been discussed?
当这件事发生后，你是否有过这样的感觉，哦，不，我是一个什么样的家长，这件事还没有被讨论过？
Is there a part of your brain doing that?
你的大脑中有一部分在这样做吗？
Oh, a million percent.
哦，百分之一百万。
I mean, [LAUGHS] when there's any sort of moment-- I was going to say "moment like this," but I don't know how many moments like this I've had.
我的意思是，[笑]当有任何时刻时——我想说“像这样的时刻”，但我不知道我经历过多少这样的时刻。
I mean, I did have a similar one when they were five and I was reading them a story before bed.
我的意思是，当他们五岁的时候，我确实有过类似的经历，我在睡前给他们读一个故事。
And Finn interrupted me and said-- they call me Mare, which is for "mother," French.
芬恩打断我说——他们叫我“Mare”，法语中“母亲”的意思。
And Finn said, Mare, are you a boy or a girl?
芬恩说，马雷，你是男孩还是女孩？
And that was when he was five.
那是他五岁的时候。
And I just stopped, and I laughed.
我就停了下来，然后笑了。
And I said, well, what do you think I am?
我说，好吧，你认为我是什么？
And he said, I think you're a boy.
他说，我认为你是个男孩。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
I said, well, I am a girl.
我说，好吧，我是个女孩。
And he said, huh, OK.
他说，嗯，好吧。
But you look like a boy, right?
但你看起来像个男孩，对吧？
And I said, yeah, yeah.
我说，是啊，是啊。
And then we just kept reading the book.
然后我们就继续读这本书。
And I was just laughing to myself like, oh, my gosh, my son didn't know I was a girl.
我只是自嘲地笑，哦，天哪，我儿子不知道我是个女孩。
One reason all of this was especially mystifying was that the boys, like I said, definitely knew they had two moms, were kind of proud of it.
所有这一切尤其令人困惑的一个原因是，就像我说的，男孩们肯定知道他们有两个妈妈，并为此感到自豪。
Not like in a, "Oh, yeah, we have two moms." They're just like, "We have two moms.
不像“哦，是的，我们有两个妈妈”。他们就像，“我们有两个妈妈。
We have two." Also, the school they go to is very progressive and celebrates pride every year.
我们有两个。”此外，他们就读的学校非常进步，每年都会庆祝骄傲。
And everyone drops their kids off in rainbows.
每个人都会在彩虹中送他们的孩子。
And--
还有——
[LAUGHS] Tig Notaro And it's like, I guess they didn't know what the pride was.
[笑] Tig Notaro 就像，我猜他们不知道骄傲是什么。
They're just running around with rainbows on them.
他们只是带着彩虹到处跑。
They're like, sure, Happy Pride.
当然，他们就像快乐的骄傲。
Tig and Stephanie eventually figured out what happened.
蒂格和斯蒂芬妮最终弄清楚发生了什么事。
Sure, Max and Finn knew they had two moms.
当然，麦克斯和芬恩知道他们有两个妈妈。
But Tig and Stephanie had never sat down with them to say, two moms who are married, that's what gay is.
但蒂格和斯蒂芬妮从来没有坐下来和他们说，两个已婚妈妈，这就是同性恋。
And more importantly, they never said the words, "We're gay."
更重要的是，他们从未说过“我们是同性恋”这句话。
It took a while for me to sort that out and understand that a wedding picture and two moms doesn't equal gay.
我花了一段时间才弄清楚这一点，并明白一张结婚照和两个妈妈并不等于同性恋。
Right, right.
对，对。
And I was thinking about how when you first come out, there's a moment where you have to do this spiel a bunch to people.
And I was thinking about how when you first come out, there's a moment where you have to do this spiel a bunch to people.
And then it sort of tapers off, and you just start living your life.
And then it sort of tapers off, and you just start living your life.
Like, I can't remember the last time I had to sit down and have a coming out conversation with somebody.
就像，我不记得上次我不得不坐下来与某人出柜交谈是什么时候了。
Exactly.
确切地。
It has been so long since I had to come out to anybody.
It has been so long since I had to come out to anybody.
Anybody.
任何人。
Right.
正确的。
Tig Notaro And I would never have guessed in my own house, there were two people--
蒂格·诺塔罗 我绝不会猜到在我自己的房子里，有两个人——
Right.
对。
[LAUGHS] Tig Notaro --that didn't-- we have three cats.
[LAUGHS] Tig Notaro --that didn't-- we have three cats.
I feel like they probably know we're gay.
我觉得他们可能知道我们是同性恋。
This stuff happens all the time.
这种事经常发生。
The people close to you miss something about you that seems so obvious.
The people close to you miss something about you that seems so obvious.
The truth is right in front of their face, and they don't see it.
真相就在他们面前，他们却看不到。
Today on the show, we have stories of people trying to end this misunderstanding once and for all.
Today on the show, we have stories of people trying to end this misunderstanding once and for all.
In one, they build an actual machine to try to convince the other person.
In one, they build an actual machine to try to convince the other person.
In another, they call a scientist for help.
在另一个案例中，他们向科学家寻求帮助。
One person even tries reaching out to the federal government, which kind of works.
One person even tries reaching out to the federal government, which kind of works.
Actually, in every case, they get a certain kind of satisfaction.
Actually, in every case, they get a certain kind of satisfaction.
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Act One, "There Will Be Blood." OK, so in this first story, a person gets so fed up with other people dismissing a thing that was happening to them that they devise a way for the other person to actually experience it firsthand.
第一幕“血色将至”。好吧，在第一个故事中，一个人厌倦了其他人忽视发生在他们身上的事情，因此他们设计了一种方法让其他人亲身体验它。
They build a machine that simulates period pain.
他们建造了一台模拟经期疼痛的机器。
Maybe you've seen these videos on TikTok of people, mostly men, getting hooked up to one of these things, getting to feel for the first time what a person with a uterus goes through regularly.
也许你在 TikTok 上看过这些视频，视频中的人们（主要是男性）对这些事物着迷，第一次感受到有子宫的人经常经历的事情。
Aviva DeKornfeld, one of the producers on our show, got curious if this social experiment really changes anything, if men who didn't really believe their partners about what happened during their periods would be convinced by this experience.
我们节目的制片人之一阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德（Aviva DeKornfeld）很好奇这个社会实验是否真的能改变什么，那些不相信伴侣在经期发生的事情的男人是否会被这次经历所说服。
So she went to see it in the wild at a rodeo in Calgary known as The Stampede, where the machine was set up for anyone who might be a doubter.
So she went to see it in the wild at a rodeo in Calgary known as The Stampede, where the machine was set up for anyone who might be a doubter.
Here's Aviva.
这是英杰华。
I'll admit, I came into this pretty skeptical.
我承认，我对此持怀疑态度。
The idea that five minutes of manufactured cramping could somehow make men understand women better, it seemed optimistic, especially when their starting point seemed to be so basic.
五分钟的人为抽筋可以在某种程度上让男人更好地了解女人，这一想法似乎很乐观，尤其是当他们的出发点似乎如此基本时。
I asked men standing in line for the machine the question, what does a period cramp feel like?
I asked men standing in line for the machine the question, what does a period cramp feel like?
Their guesses included food poisoning, bone pain, getting kicked in the balls, a pinch, and being really full.
Their guesses included food poisoning, bone pain, getting kicked in the balls, a pinch, and being really full.
More often than not, they made these guesses while standing next to their partner, who was off mic, silently shaking her head no. Either more women than I thought avoid talking about their periods with their partners, or most of these boyfriends have extremely selective hearing.
More often than not, they made these guesses while standing next to their partner, who was off mic, silently shaking her head no.要么比我想象的更多的女性避免与伴侣谈论她们的经期，要么这些男朋友中的大多数都有极其选择性的听力。
How is your period pain?
你的经期疼痛怎么样？
Girlfriend Really bad.
女朋友真的很坏。
You're learning right now that your girlfriend has terrible period pain?
You're learning right now that your girlfriend has terrible period pain?
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld How long have you been together?
Aviva DeKornfeld How long have you been together?
Five years.
五年了。
Aviva DeKornfeld His girlfriend asks, what did you think was going on when I was in bed?
阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 (Aviva DeKornfeld) 他的女朋友问，当我躺在床上时，你认为发生了什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I thought you just wanted to sleep.
我以为你只是想睡觉
Once a month?
一个月一次？
Boyfriend Yeah.
男朋友 是啊
I knew it happened.
我知道它发生了。
I never really asked much about it.
我从来没有真正问过太多。
This kind of ignorance is the exact motivation for Lux Perry, the person running the simulator.
这种无知正是运行模拟器的勒克斯·佩里 (Lux Perry) 的动机。
Lux is 31.
勒克斯是 31 岁。
They're sharp and funny.
他们犀利又有趣。
They first started running the simulator a couple of years ago and have since taken it all over the world.
They first started running the simulator a couple of years ago and have since taken it all over the world.
Lux is doing all of this because period pain has been the defining factor of their life.
拉克斯之所以做这一切，是因为经期疼痛一直是他们生活的决定性因素。
They have severe endometriosis, which is a chronic disease where tissue that's supposed to grow inside the uterus grows outside of it, which causes all sorts of problems, including extreme pain.
他们患有严重的子宫内膜异位症，这是一种慢性疾病，本应在子宫内生长的组织在子宫外生长，这会导致各种问题，包括极度疼痛。
Lux has been to the hospital with complications over 75 times, and it took over 20 years for them to even get a diagnosis.
Lux 因并发症去过医院超过 75 次，甚至花了 20 多年才得到诊断。
And when, A, everyone around you is telling you that the pain that you experience is completely not real, and it's ruined your entire life, it's kind of how you end up building a simulator.
当，A，你周围的每个人都告诉你，你所经历的痛苦完全不是真实的，它毁了你的整个生活，这就是你最终构建模拟器的方式。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Lux isn't the only one who's done this.
拉克斯并不是唯一一个这样做的人。
There are lots of period simulator videos online.
网上有很多经期模拟器视频。
But the machine people are using in those other videos only triggers a very superficial cramp, nothing like a real period.
But the machine people are using in those other videos only triggers a very superficial cramp, nothing like a real period.
Whereas Lux had their machine modified to make the cramps more intense, with the goal of getting people to understand what period pain actually feels like.
而勒克斯则对他们的机器进行了改造，使痉挛更加剧烈，目的是让人们了解经期疼痛的实际感觉。
So you're going to peel them off this plastic thing.
所以你要把它们从这个塑料东西上剥下来。
And you're going to apply them directly to your skin where your ovaries would be.
您将把它们直接涂抹在卵巢所在的皮肤上。
So--
所以——
The way Lux's machine works, you place two sticky pads where your ovaries are or would be, which is lower than you think.
勒克斯机器的工作方式是，你将两个粘垫放在你的卵巢所在或将要所在的位置，这比你想象的要低。
So you want to put them as close together as possible.
因此，您希望将它们尽可能靠近地放置在一起。
Those pads are connected by wires to a handheld machine, which then triggers a cramp.
这些垫子通过电线连接到手持机器，然后触发抽筋。
The machine goes from 1 to 10.
机器从 1 变为 10。
Lux says most women who have tried the machine say their normal period pain is around level 7, some a little lower, some much, much higher.
勒克斯说，大多数尝试过该机器的女性表示，她们正常的经期疼痛程度在 7 级左右，有的稍微低一些，有的则高得多。
I watched 100 people get hooked up to the machine over the course of two days.
我在两天内看到 100 个人连接到了这台机器。
When Lux cranks the simulator up, women tend to be stoic.
当拉克丝启动模拟器时，女性往往会表现得坚忍不拔。
They calmly describe the pain they're feeling.
他们平静地描述他们所感受到的痛苦。
I watched one woman on a level 10 say thoughtfully, huh, this is what it felt like when my cyst ruptured.
我看到一位 10 级的女士若有所思地说，嗯，这就是我的囊肿破裂时的感觉。
Whereas men tend to sound more like this--
而男人听起来更像是这样——
Oh, my god.
哦，天啊。
Jesus Christ.
耶稣基督。
OK, enough.
好吧，够了。
Enough.
足够的。
Fuck me.
操我。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Fuck.
他妈的。
Sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry that happens to you.
我很抱歉发生在你身上。
Whenever a guy was hooked up to the machine, women would crowd around the booth to watch.
每当一个男人连接到机器上时，女人就会聚集在展位周围观看。
They would shout questions at the man.
他们会向该男子大声提问。
Would you still be able to go to work?
你还能去上班吗？
Go out with friends?
和朋友出去玩？
Having that pain, would you go to the gym?
痛到这种程度，你会去健身房吗？
Oh, no, no. I wouldn't want to.
哦，不，不。我不想。
I mean, I probably could, but it wouldn't be a good day.
I mean, I probably could, but it wouldn't be a good day.
Another woman jumps in.
另一个女人跳了进来。
Woman 2 I have to pick up kids all day.
女人2 我整天都要接孩子。
Would you think you could do that?
你认为你能做到吗？
Probably not.
可能不会。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It wouldn't be fun for sure.
这肯定不会很有趣。
I'd probably just want to sit, watch TV, and not really do much.
我可能只想坐下来看电视，而不做太多事情。
The women badgered and heckled from the sidelines, good-naturedly, but still, oftentimes, they would lament to one another that the simulator could only simulate cramps, wishing it could somehow also trigger the headaches, back pain, hormones, acne, nausea, depression, and everything else that comes with menstruation.
女人们在场边善意地纠缠和质问，但她们常常会互相哀叹，模拟器只能模拟痉挛，希望它能以某种方式引发头痛、背痛、荷尔蒙、痤疮、恶心、抑郁，以及月经带来的其他一切。
There seemed to be a real pleasure in watching the men writhe.
There seemed to be a real pleasure in watching the men writhe.
A tiny bit of justice, if only for a minute.
一点点正义，哪怕只有一分钟。
Let me just say, I know how all this sounds so binary.
Let me just say, I know how all this sounds so binary.
I don't mean to drag us back to a time when we thought of men and women as two totally different species.
I don't mean to drag us back to a time when we thought of men and women as two totally different species.
And I'm not saying all men acted this way, and all women acted this other way.
And I'm not saying all men acted this way, and all women acted this other way.
There are obviously exceptions, though, honestly, as far as I saw, not many.
显然也有例外，但老实说，据我所知，例外的情况并不多。
To be clear, most of the men I met were nice, empathetic.
To be clear, most of the men I met were nice, empathetic.
They clearly knew what they were supposed to say.
They clearly knew what they were supposed to say.
Of course, they believe women, even if other feelings slip out sometimes.
Of course, they believe women, even if other feelings slip out sometimes.
Why do you think your girlfriend wants you to do this?
Why do you think your girlfriend wants you to do this?
I don't know how it feels.
我不知道感觉如何。
So she always whines about it.
所以她总是为此发牢骚。
So I got to test it out and see what she's whining about.
So I got to test it out and see what she's whining about.
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Does "whine" feel like the right verb to you?
您觉得“抱怨”这个动词合适吗？
No. No. They actually hurt.
不，不，他们真的受伤了。
Just wait.
等等。
Wait till you see--
等你看到——
At least half the men who tried the simulator did so because their girlfriend or wife was dragging them, sometimes literally, over to the booth and forcing them to try it.
至少有一半尝试模拟器的男性之所以这么做，是因为他们的女朋友或妻子拖着他们（有时甚至是字面意思）到展位上，强迫他们尝试。
And Lux would have a number of couples storm off afterwards.
And Lux would have a number of couples storm off afterwards.
They like to guess which couples are going to break up.
They like to guess which couples are going to break up.
Yeah, we had this couple last year.
是的，去年我们有过这对夫妇。
They were young-ish, maybe in their mid 20s.
他们都很年轻，大概20多岁。
And she really wanted him to experience it because she had endo.
And she really wanted him to experience it because she had endo.
He was completely dismissive leading up to.
他对此完全不屑一顾。
And then when he was on the simulator, he, like, pushed through it.
然后当他在模拟器上时，他就像是通过了它。
You can see when people are really trying to suppress the experience.
You can see when people are really trying to suppress the experience.
And so he was really like, wouldn't say that he was in pain, and they stormed off completely pissed at each other.
所以他真的很喜欢，不会说他很痛苦，然后他们就气冲冲地走了，完全生对方的气。
She was like, why would you-- why do you have to say all those things in front of people?
她说，你为什么要在人们面前说这些话？
We could hear her.
我们能听到她的声音。
What was he saying?
他说什么？
Lux Perry Well, he was saying that she exaggerates, that it's not that bad, like that if this is what you're going through, there's no reason that you can't do the dishes, or it was, like, really offensive stuff.
勒克斯·佩里：好吧，他说她夸大了，事情并没有那么糟糕，就像如果这就是你正在经历的事情，你没有理由不能洗碗，或者这确实是令人反感的事情。
And it's just, sometimes, you want to say something to the girl.
And it's just, sometimes, you want to say something to the girl.
You're like, this guy is such an ass.
你会想，这家伙真是个混蛋。
So can this humble machine change a man's mind?
那么这个不起眼的机器能改变一个人的想法吗？
Eughan and Kasia are a great test case for this question because they do not see eye to eye about her periods at all.
尤根和卡西亚是这个问题的一个很好的测试案例，因为他们对于她的经期的看法根本不一致。
Eughan's from South Africa.
欧根来自南非。
Kasia is from Poland.
卡西亚来自波兰。
They're both in their early 40s, and they're the kind of couple that is always talking past one another, constantly disagreeing.
他们都是40岁出头的人，是那种总是说三道四、意见不一致的夫妻。
We've been married for 14 years.
我们结婚已经14年了。
We have two big kids.
我们有两个大孩子。
Well, not big.
还好，不大。
They're 10 and 7, but yes.
他们分别是 10 岁和 7 岁，但是是的。
Even so, there was a real affection between them in a sort of old timey, the old ball and chain, is my spouse a real pain in the ass, kind of way.
即便如此，他们之间还是有一种真正的感情，就像旧时代的旧球和铁链一样，我的配偶是不是一个真正的麻烦，某种方式。
Yeah, I think he thinks it's a choice we have as women when we get really cranky, and I'm like, it ain't a choice.
是的，我认为他认为这是我们作为女性在脾气暴躁时所拥有的选择，而我想，这不是一个选择。
It's what it is, and that's what it feels like.
事情就是这样，感觉就是这样。
But I had a history of very, very difficult cramps.
但我有过非常非常严重的抽筋史。
He thinks I'm difficult when I'm on my period.
他认为我在月经期间很难相处。
And I'm like, come on.
我想，来吧。
I mean, I've got to be, right?
我的意思是，我必须如此，对吧？
Let's see.
让我们来看看。
Aviva DeKornfeld Eughan was actually the one who spotted the booth first and suggested they try it, which surprised Kasia.
Aviva DeKornfeld Eughan 实际上是第一个发现这个摊位并建议他们尝试一下的人，这让卡西亚感到惊讶。
She said he's never displayed an interest in her period pain, though secretly, she wondered if he was doing it to see if she was exaggerating or at least prove his own toughness.
她说他从来没有对她的经期疼痛表现出兴趣，尽管私下里，她想知道他这样做是否是为了看看她是否夸大其词，或者至少证明他自己的坚强。
Eughan and Kasia get hooked up to the simulator together so they'll feel the exact same thing at the exact same time.
尤根和卡西亚一起连接到模拟器，这样他们就会在同一时间感受到完全相同的事情。
This way, Kasia can say to Eughan, this right here, this is what my cramps feel like.
这样，卡西亚就可以对欧根说，就在这里，这就是我抽筋的感觉。
While they're hooking themselves up, Eughan repeatedly tells Kasia, don't cheat.
当他们勾搭的时候，尤根反复告诉卡西亚，不要欺骗。
And he looks over at her to make sure she's putting the pads on in the right place.
他看着她，确保她把护垫戴在了正确的位置。
Where's yours?
你的在哪里？
Aviva DeKornfeld You're so skeptical of her.
Aviva DeKornfeld 你对她太怀疑了。
She'll cheat.
她会作弊。
Kasia He thinks I'll cheat.
卡西亚 他认为我会作弊。
Do you see what I'm dealing with?
你明白我在处理什么吗？
So there are 10 levels.
所以有10个级别。
The first four levels are just kind of like a tingling sensation.
前四个级别有点像刺痛感。
5 is when it drops to a lower frequency and should feel more like a cramp.
5 是当频率下降到较低并且感觉更像是抽筋时。
7 is what most people experience.
7是大多数人都会经历的。
And anything over 7 would be considered painful.
超过 7 的任何事情都会被认为是痛苦的。
You're doing it evenly.
你做得很均匀。
Lux Perry I am.
勒克斯·佩里 我是。
You really are skeptical.
你确实很怀疑。
Eughan, for some reason, seems convinced that Lux might secretly crank his machine up while leaving Kasia on a lower level.
出于某种原因，欧根似乎确信拉克斯可能会秘密地启动他的机器，同时将卡西亚留在较低的水平。
Lux walks them through the levels.
拉克丝带领他们完成关卡。
They get up to a level 6.
他们达到了6级。
That can't be how it feels.
不可能是这样的感觉。
Kasia It feels really tight.
卡西亚 感觉真的很紧。
Wait, you said it can't be how it feels?
等等，你说这不可能是这样的感觉？
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld The next cramp comes.
Aviva DeKornfeld 下一次抽筋来了。
No, we're going to 10.
不，我们要去10。
Lux Perry You're going to stop?
勒克斯·佩里 你要停下来吗？
OK, it's off.
好的，关了。
Lux stops Eughan's machine, but keeps Kasia's on, who's now up to a level 9.
拉克丝停止了尤根的机器，但让卡西亚的机器保持打开状态，卡西亚现在已经达到了 9 级。
Eughan does not want to join her.
欧根不想加入她。
No, no. No 9.
不，不。 9号。
Listen, I think this one's too high.
听着，我觉得这个太高了。
It's like going through my stomach.
就像穿过我的胃一样。
I don't think that's how it can feel.
我不认为这就是感觉。
Is that really how it feels?
真的是这样的感觉吗？
Is that how it feels, though?
但感觉就是这样吗？
This is period pain right now.
现在是经期疼痛。
I'm feeling it really cranking up.
我感觉它真的在加速。
Don't do mine.
别做我的。
Kasia Yeah.
卡西亚 是的。
Oh, yeah, this is a period pain.
哦，是的，这是经期疼痛。
Like, it's really deep into you.
就像，它真的深入你的内心。
That's it.
就是这样。
Kasia eventually convinces Eughan to get back on the machine.
卡西亚最终说服欧根重新使用机器。
Number 9.
9号。
You got to do 9.
你必须做9。
Eughan But quick, if I say off, you off it, huh?
欧根：但是快点，如果我说别，你就别这么做，是吧？
Yes.
是的。
Eughan [PANTS] It's like giving birth.
尤根（裤子）就像生孩子一样。
You're doing 10 now?
你现在做10个吗？
[SCREAMS] Is that 10?
[尖叫]那是 10 吗？
Is that 10?
那是10吗？
Is that 10?
那是10吗？
Is that on 10 now?
现在是10点吗？
Yes.
是的。
Kasia Yes.
卡西亚 是的。
That's a deep pain.
那是一种深深的痛苦。
Hold on.
坚持，稍等。
One more, and then we're done.
再来一张，然后我们就完成了。
Yeah, no, he's hurting me.
是的，不，他伤害了我。
Yes.
是的。
You know when the pain goes all the way to your back?
你知道什么时候疼痛会一直延伸到背部吗？
That deep muscle pain that goes into your back?
背部深层肌肉疼痛？
That's the period pain.
这就是经痛。
The whole time?
一直以来？
Kasia The whole time continuously, yeah.
卡西亚 一直持续不断，是的。
That's not nice, though.
但这不太好。
Kasia It comes in waves.
卡西亚 它一波又一波地袭来。
But is that how it feels the whole time?
但这是一直以来的感觉吗？
That really deep pain.
那种痛真的很深。
And it literally feels like--
从字面上看，感觉就像——
Do you think this will change the way that you interact with your partner?
您认为这会改变您与伴侣互动的方式吗？
Definitely.
确实。
Aviva DeKornfeld Really?
艾维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 真的吗？
In what way?
以什么方式？
Well, now I will ask her are you having the same vibrations as you were?
好吧，现在我会问她你的振动和以前一样吗？
It's so tough.
太难了。
So do you feel like you believe her more now?
那么你觉得你现在更相信她了吗？
Definitely.
确实。
Aviva DeKornfeld How come you think that you had to experience the pain yourself to believe her?
Aviva DeKornfeld 你为什么认为你必须亲自经历痛苦才能相信她？
To be honest, I just thought it's like mood changes.
说实话，我只是觉得这就像情绪的变化。
Whiny.
发牢骚。
Aviva DeKornfeld Eughan went from, "My wife complains too much about period pain," to asking why she didn't make more of a scene during her period over the course of five minutes.
阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德·尤根 (Aviva DeKornfeld Eughan) 从“我的妻子对经期疼痛抱怨太多”，转而问她为什么不在经期期间在五分钟内制造更多的场景。
So, theoretically, mission success.
所以，从理论上讲，任务成功了。
A few days later, the longevity of Eughan's transformation was tested.
几天后，欧根转变的持久性受到了考验。
He and Kasia were back at home in England, and Kasia had her period.
他和卡西亚回到了英国的家中，卡西亚也来了月经。
She was sitting on the couch and told Eughan, I'm at a level 8 right now.
她坐在沙发上告诉尤恩，我现在是 8 级。
He said, OK.
他说，好吧。
He understood.
他明白了。
Kasia told me, if you think he then got me a glass of water or a pillow or took care of me in some way, that's not the husband I have.
卡西亚告诉我，如果你认为他给我一杯水或一个枕头，或者以某种方式照顾我，那他就不是我的丈夫。
But he acknowledged my pain, and that was new.
但他承认我的痛苦，这是新的。
And I appreciated it.
我很感激。
I'd flown to Calgary to watch men get hooked up to the simulator to see what they'd learn about period pain.
我飞往卡尔加里观看男性连接模拟器，了解他们对经期疼痛的了解。
I hadn't planned on learning anything about periods myself.
我自己并没有计划学习任何有关经期的知识。
I already have one.
我已经有一个了。
I figure, I know about them.
我想，我了解他们。
But I was shocked by how many women offhandedly mentioned going to the hospital for their period pain.
但令我震惊的是，有多少女性不经意间提到去医院治疗经期疼痛。
At first, I wasn't sure if I was just way more ignorant about period pain than I'd realized, or if I was just in Canada, where regular people can actually afford to go to the hospital with some regularity.
起初，我不确定自己是否对经痛的了解比我意识到的要严重得多，或者我只是在加拿大，那里的普通人实际上可以负担得起定期去医院的费用。
It was probably both.
可能两者都是。
But there were just so many women in so much pain, so much of the time, like this woman, Gabby, with endometriosis.
但有那么多女性在那么多时间里承受着如此多的痛苦，就像这位患有子宫内膜异位症的女性盖比一样。
She's 27.
她27岁了。
She has to walk with a cane.
她必须拄着拐杖走路。
And she's applied for disability since the pain is so debilitating.
由于疼痛太严重，她已经申请了残疾。
And when I met her, she was about to fly to the US to pay for her second surgery, which costs about $40,000 out of pocket.
当我见到她时，她正准备飞往美国支付第二次手术费用，自付费用约为 4 万美元。
Lux walked Gabby all the way up the scale on the simulator.
勒克斯在模拟器上带领盖比一路攀登。
She got to a 9, didn't blink.
她得到了9分，没有眨眼。
OK, do you want to try a 10?
好吧，你想试试 10 吗？
Gabby Yeah.
盖比 是的。
OK, so this is a 10.
好的，所以这是 10。
Gabby Yeah, it's like, it feels-- then you can feel a little bit more of the almost stabbies.
盖比：是的，就像，感觉——然后你可以感觉到更多一点几乎被刺伤的感觉。
I'm trying to figure out what this is on my pain scale.
我试图找出我的疼痛量表上的这个数字。
I mean, since I'm still standing, I would say this is probably like a-- this is probably like my everyday, like a 6.
我的意思是，因为我仍然站着，我会说这可能就像 - 这可能就像我的日常生活，就像 6。
Yeah, no, I could definitely function with this.
是的，不，我绝对可以用这个。
When I tried the machine, my level was 7, average.
当我尝试机器时，我的水平是7，平均水平。
At levels 8, 9, and 10, I couldn't even speak.
在8级、9级和10级时，我什至无法说话。
I was just silently breathing through the pain.
我只是默默地忍受着痛苦的呼吸。
It was so much worse than my cramps.
这比我的抽筋要严重得多。
And watching Gabby casually hold a conversation at level 10, I felt like I finally emotionally understood the whole point of the machine.
而看着Gabby在10级随意地进行对话，我感觉我终于在情感上理解了机器的全部意义。
It's easy to think that because you've experienced a piece of a thing, that you understand the entirety of it.
人们很容易认为，因为你经历了一件事情的一部分，所以你就了解了它的全部。
But on the spectrum of period pain, Gabby's experience is as far from mine as mine is from the men.
但就经期疼痛而言，加比的经历与我的经历相差甚远，就像我的经历与男性的经历相差甚远一样。
I felt angry that I somehow didn't know any of this before.
我感到很生气，因为我以前根本不知道这些。
And when I got home from Calgary, I couldn't stop talking about what I'd seen, asking everyone with the fervor of a college freshman who just learned about feminism, do you have any idea how much pain women are asked to endure?
当我从卡尔加里回到家时，我不停地谈论着我所看到的一切，以一个刚了解女权主义的大学新生的热情问大家，你们知道女性要承受多少痛苦吗？
Before this, I think a part of me felt like these guys were being kind of insensitive dummies, totally unaware of the pain of the people around them.
在此之前，我想我的一部分感觉这些人是一些麻木不仁的傻瓜，完全没有意识到周围人的痛苦。
But I guess I was basically as clueless as they were.
但我想我基本上和他们一样一无所知。
Aviva DeKornfeld is a producer on our show.
Aviva DeKornfeld 是我们节目的制片人。
Act Two, "Face Your Demons." This next story is about a man who wants, more than anything in the world, to be able to see people around him accurately, which is not an easy thing to do.
第二幕，“面对你的恶魔”。下一个故事是关于一个男人，他最希望能够准确地看到周围的人，但这并不是一件容易的事。
Our producer, Alix Spiegel, has the story.
我们的制片人阿利克斯·斯皮格尔讲述了这个故事。
Love was always important to Jason Werbeloff-- probably the most important thing.
爱情对杰森·沃贝洛夫来说始终很重要——可能是最重要的事情。
As a kid growing up in South Africa, he often imagined his future partner, what the man might look, how close the two of them would be.
作为一个在南非长大的孩子，他经常想象他未来的伴侣，这个男人会是什么样子，他们两个会有多亲密。
Jason was crossing his fingers for the standard version of the love story, the one in all the movies.
杰森正在为这个爱情故事的标准版本祈祷，这是所有电影中的一个。
I was looking for a soulmate, the one, the person who would understand me, and complete my life, and allow me to fully connect with them on every level, and share every detail of ourselves-- I guess a very Disney way of thinking about life.
我一直在寻找一个灵魂伴侣，一个能够理解我、完善我的生活、让我在各个层面上与他们充分联系、分享我们自己的每一个细节的人——我想这是一种非常迪士尼的思考生活的方式。
So it felt like good news when, at the age of 24, Jason met Marius, an artist with thick black glasses who proudly held Jason's hand in public.
因此，当杰森 24 岁时遇到了马吕斯，他是一位戴着厚厚的黑眼镜的艺术家，在公共场合自豪地握住杰森的手时，这感觉像是一个好消息。
This was 2008, and Jason had recently graduated from university with a degree in philosophy.
那是 2008 年，杰森刚刚从大学毕业，获得了哲学学位。
He was out on his own, trying to get a life and a small software business up and running.
他独自一人外出，试图谋生并经营一家小型软件公司。
And Marius was incredibly supportive, confident that Jason would succeed at whatever it is that he tried.
马吕斯非常支持，相信杰森无论尝试什么都会成功。
He looked at me like I mattered.
他看着我，好像我很重要。
And I remember him laughing a lot.
我记得他经常笑。
And he had a good laugh, very warm.
而且他笑得很开心，很温暖。
But then one night, pretty early in the relationship, Jason had an experience that left him deeply shaken.
但有一天晚上，在关系刚开始的时候，杰森经历了一次让他深受震撼的经历。
So I remember we were sitting at a table at a restaurant.
所以我记得我们坐在一家餐馆的桌子旁。
It was outside the movies.
那是在电影之外。
We were going to go see a movie that night.
那天晚上我们打算去看电影。
And I remember looking at him, and I thought he was snarling at me.
我记得我看着他，我以为他在对我咆哮。
The expression on his boyfriend's face-- for a moment, Jason thought he saw a look of pure hatred.
男朋友脸上的表情——有那么一刻，杰森以为自己看到的是纯粹仇恨的表情。
It was just a flash, but it was unnerving.
虽然只是一闪而过，但却让人心惊胆战。
It felt like Jason had seen a glimpse of something deeper, like the expression revealed some buried inner truth.
感觉杰森仿佛看到了更深层次的东西，就像他的表情揭示了一些隐藏的内心真相。
Jason didn't think he'd said anything to offend his boyfriend.
杰森不认为他说了任何冒犯他男朋友的话。
And there was nothing in his boyfriend's voice that was nasty or malicious.
而且他男朋友的声音里没有任何令人讨厌或恶意的东西。
But the expression-- Marius looked like someone who clearly meant him ill.
但马吕斯的表情显然是对他怀有恶意。
I remember looking at his face and thinking, I don't want to be anywhere near this person.
我记得看着他的脸并想，我不想靠近这个人。
He feels like a stranger and like he wants to harm me, to hurt me.
他感觉自己像个陌生人，他想伤害我，伤害我。
Did you say anything to him, like, why are you looking at me like that?
你有没有对他说过什么，比如，你为什么这样看着我？
No, because I thought I must be misunderstanding.
不，因为我想我一定是误会了。
And I must just ask him enough questions to find out what he's feeling in order to understand him differently.
我必须问他足够的问题来了解他的感受，以便以不同的方式理解他。
And I started to ask him questions about how he felt about us, about what he wanted from the relationship.
我开始问他对我们的感觉，以及他想从这段关系中得到什么。
And he reacted in a very confused way.
他的反应非常困惑。
And that was our first fight.
那是我们的第一次战斗。
Jason eventually let it go, and the rest of the night was normal.
杰森最终放手了，接下来的夜晚一切都很正常。
Unfortunately, in the days and weeks that followed, those brief, menacing expressions, they continued.
不幸的是，在接下来的几天和几周里，这些简短的、威胁性的表情仍在继续。
Jason kept catching Marius with a malicious look on his face, a kind of ghoulish snarl.
杰森不断地用一种恶毒的表情看着马吕斯，一种残忍的咆哮。
Every time he saw it, he felt his heart race.
每次看到它，他都会感到心跳加速。
The look was almost demonic.
那眼神几乎是恶魔般的。
It wasn't all the time.
并非一直如此。
And usually, the look would emerge and then disappear just as quickly, so Jason was never absolutely certain that what he thought he saw was what he saw.
通常情况下，这种表情会同样快地出现然后消失，所以杰森从来不能绝对确定他认为他看到的就是他所看到的。
But still, it upset him almost every time.
但尽管如此，他几乎每次都感到不安。
No matter how many times Marius told him that he was just imagining it, that Marius loved Jason and only wanted the best for him, Jason found the expressions impossible to ignore.
无论马吕斯多少次告诉他，他只是想象，马吕斯爱杰森，只想给他最好的，杰森发现这些表情无法忽视。
We used to fight a lot.
我们曾经经常吵架。
And it always felt like we had two relationships.
总感觉我们有两种关系。
There was the relationship I had with him when he looked like someone I could trust and love and the relationship I had with him when he looked awful.
当他看起来像一个我可以信任和爱的人时我与他的关系，以及当他看起来很糟糕时我与他的关系。
And the relationship felt very chaotic.
而且感觉关系非常混乱。
It was good, and it was bad.
这是好的，也是坏的。
And it was good, and it was bad.
这有好有坏。
It was good, and it was bad.
这是好的，也是坏的。
I started to research facial expressions obsessively.
我开始着迷地研究面部表情。
So I read every book I could in my university's library.
所以我在大学图书馆里读了我能读的每一本书。
There were a few.
有几个。
About facial expressions?
关于面部表情？
Jason Werbeloff Yes.
贾森·沃贝洛夫 是的。
That's so interesting.
那太有趣了。
Why?
为什么？
And what were you looking for in those books?
您在这些书中寻找什么？
I basically wanted to be able to see a facial expression and be able to recognize what emotion was underlying it, what the person was feeling.
我基本上希望能够看到面部表情，并能够识别出其背后的情绪，以及这个人的感受。
I became obsessed with that.
我对此着迷。
Because what I thought he was feeling and what he said he was feeling didn't match.
因为我认为他的感受和他所说的感受不符。
So I became obsessed with working it out.
所以我开始沉迷于解决这个问题。
What is it that's on this guy's face?
这家伙脸上的是什么？
Marius and Jason were together for four years until, eventually, the expression problem came to a head.
马吕斯和杰森在一起四年了，直到最终，表达问题达到了顶峰。
Jason says he remembers the exact moment.
杰森说他记得那一刻。
He'd come into a room where Marius was working on an art project.
他走进了一个房间，马吕斯正在那里做一个艺术项目。
I just hated the way he looked at me.
我只是讨厌他看我的方式。
It looked like he was looking at me with contempt.
看起来他正在用轻蔑的眼神看着我。
And then a few months later, we broke up.
然后几个月后，我们分手了。
It was just that particular look.
就是那种特别的样子。
It stayed with me.
它留在了我身边。
And it wasn't only with Marius.
不仅仅是马吕斯。
This happened with other people, too, these flashes of apparent malice.
这种情况也发生在其他人身上，这些明显的恶意闪现。
It happened with his mother, some, though not all, of his friends, random strangers he encountered in the world.
这件事发生在他的母亲身上，还有他的一些朋友（尽管不是全部），以及他在世界上遇到的随机陌生人。
It wasn't everyone.
不是每个人。
It wasn't all the time.
并非一直如此。
But it kept happening.
但这种事一直在发生。
So Jason started to change his patterns.
于是杰森开始改变他的模式。
He went out with friends and family much less, even created a work-life where he could spend most of his time alone.
他与朋友和家人外出的次数少了很多，甚至创造了一种可以让他大部分时间独处的工作生活。
He just couldn't stand to see the terrible expressions.
他只是无法忍受看到那些可怕的表情。
And they bothered him most in the context of his romantic relationships, that part of his life where he had so hoped to find unconditional love and support.
最让他困扰的是他的恋爱关系，他在生活中非常希望找到无条件的爱和支持。
Jason desperately wanted a healthy relationship, and so he did the typical thing that people do when they're having trouble in love-- he consulted experts, went to see therapists, one after another.
杰森非常想要一段健康的关系，所以他做了人们在爱情遇到麻烦时通常会做的事情——他咨询了专家，去看了治疗师，一个接一个。
I put myself into therapy.
我让自己接受治疗。
Alix Spiegel And what did you say to the therapist, and what did they say to you about what the issue could be?
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel）：关于问题可能是什么，你对治疗师说了些什么？他们对你说了些什么？
I said, the person I'm dating or this friend isn't someone that I can trust, isn't someone that I can feel close to.
我说，我正在约会的人或者这个朋友不是我可以信任的人，不是我可以亲近的人。
And then the second thing I would say is, what is wrong with me for feeling like that?
然后我要说的第二件事是，我有这样的感觉有什么问题吗？
Is it them, or is it me?
是他们，还是我？
But something's very wrong here.
但这里有点不对劲。
And I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
But is it them, or is it me?
但这是他们，还是我？
And what did the therapist tend to say?
治疗师倾向于说什么？
Was it them, or was it you?
是他们，还是你？
They would find some story to tell about that.
他们会找到一些故事来讲述这一点。
Like, there either was something very wrong with them, or there was something very wrong with me wanting someone who I had such discomfort around.
就像，要么他们有什么问题，要么我想要一个让我感到不舒服的人有什么问题。
This went on for 13 years, and Jason withdrew more and more.
这样的情况持续了13年，杰森越来越退缩。
Every romantic relationship ended the same way, with a look so terrifying, Jason could no longer stand it.
每段恋爱的结局都是一样的，那副可怕的样子让杰森再也无法忍受。
In fact, in one case, the look on his boyfriend's face was so disturbing, Jason made him leave that instant, literally went online, paid for an Airbnb and told him to pack.
事实上，有一次，他男朋友脸上的表情非常令人不安，杰森让他立即离开，然后上网，在 Airbnb 上付了钱，然后让他收拾行李。
But then, about three years ago, Jason stumbled on the source of this problem.
但大约三年前，杰森偶然发现了这个问题的根源。
And understanding what it was made him think about his whole life differently.
理解这是什么让他对自己的一生有了不同的看法。
It started one day when he was on this online forum and got into a conversation with a woman named Catherine.
事情始于有一天，他在这个在线论坛上与一位名叫凯瑟琳的女士进行了交谈。
Jason described to Catherine his experience with faces, the strange flashes he saw that haunted him for days afterwards.
杰森向凯瑟琳描述了他的面孔经历，他所看到的奇怪的闪光在之后的几天里一直困扰着他。
And Catherine told him that she thought she knew what his problem was.
凯瑟琳告诉他，她认为她知道他的问题是什么。
She said the name of a disorder that he'd never heard of, then told him that to figure out if he had it, he should purchase this special light, which allows the user to change the color of the light through the full color spectrum.
她说出了一种他从未听说过的疾病的名称，然后告诉他，要弄清楚他是否患有这种疾病，他应该购买这种特殊的灯，它允许用户通过全色谱改变光的颜色。
I thought she was a bit of a quack, to be honest.
说实话，我觉得她有点庸医。
[CHUCKLES] I thought, she doesn't know what she's talking about.
[轻笑]我想，她不知道自己在说什么。
But I'll humor her and get these colored bulbs for my lights.
但我会迁就她，并为我的灯买这些彩色灯泡。
And she said, sit in a perfectly dark room with no other light sources, and put a lamp on either side of you so there's no shadows.
她说，坐在一个没有其他光源的完全黑暗的房间里，在你的两侧放一盏灯，这样就不会有阴影。
And look in the mirror and change the colors on the spectrum and see what you see.
照照镜子，改变光谱上的颜色，看看你看到了什么。
Now, when Jason was a kid and, really, all through high school, he told me he'd felt pretty good about the way that he looked.
现在，当杰森还是个孩子的时候，实际上是整个高中时期，他告诉我他对自己的外表感觉非常好。
He considered himself reasonably attractive.
他认为自己相当有吸引力。
But when he was in his mid-twenties, that started to change.
但当他二十多岁的时候，情况开始发生变化。
What Jason saw when he looked in the mirror was someone whose right eye kind looked out of place and was much smaller than the other one, and he decided he wasn't very attractive.
杰森照镜子时发现，这个人的右眼看起来不太协调，而且比另一只小很多，他觉得自己不太有吸引力。
He was kind of a strange-looking guy.
他是一个长相有点奇怪的人。
So anyway, Jason sits down in his bedroom and arranges the light, just like the woman said.
所以不管怎样，杰森坐在自己的卧室里，安排好灯光，就像女人说的那样。
And then he looks in the mirror.
然后他照镜子。
And I sort of went around the color dial.
我对颜色表盘进行了一些研究。
And when the color was green, my eye was not smaller and to the side and higher than the other eye.
当颜色是绿色时，我的眼睛并不比另一只眼睛小、偏向一侧、更高。
It was where it should be on a symmetrical face.
这是对称脸上应该出现的位置。
How did that make you feel?
这让你感觉如何？
Jason Werbeloff I was amazed.
杰森·韦贝洛夫 我很惊讶。
I was like-- I was truly amazed by how I looked.
我真的对自己的外表感到惊讶。
And suddenly, things started to pop into place, all of a sudden, in my head.
突然间，事情开始突然在我的脑海中浮现。
It was because I've always had-- I don't want to sound arrogant, but I've always had a lot of attention from other men.
这是因为我一直——我不想显得傲慢，但我总是受到其他男人的很多关注。
And I could never understand why because I thought, I don't know what these people are seeing in me.
我永远无法理解为什么，因为我想，我不知道这些人在我身上看到了什么。
But I'm not a pretty person.
但我不是一个漂亮的人。
I have a really ugly face.
我的脸实在是太丑了。
Why are they doing this?
他们为什么要这样做？
Which would feed into a paranoia about, are they trying to use me in some way?
这会让人产生一种偏执：他们是否试图以某种方式利用我？
They can't possibly be attracted to me.
他们不可能被我吸引。
But suddenly, under the green lights, my face was not distorted.
但突然间，在绿色的灯光下，我的脸不再扭曲了。
I didn't see the face as it was before as a distortion.
我没有看到那张扭曲变形的脸。
I thought that was reality.
我以为这就是现实。
And I was really shocked.
我真的很震惊。
I felt thrown, and I couldn't stop staring.
我感觉自己被抛弃了，无法停止凝视。
And the opposite color to green on the color wheel is red.
色轮上与绿色相反的颜色是红色。
And I took the dial all the way to red, and I stared at my face in the mirror.
我把表盘一直调到红色，然后盯着镜子里自己的脸。
And my face became truly demonic.
我的脸变得真正邪恶了。
Like, I remember it was so intense, it felt like everything around my face went completely black.
就像，我记得它是如此强烈，感觉我脸上的一切都变成了黑色。
And the change that I'd seen in so many people over years and years and years was concentrated and magnified and crystallized on my face.
多年来我在很多人身上看到的变化集中、放大并结晶在我的脸上。
And I looked so terrible.
我看起来很糟糕。
And the difference between myself and the green light and the red light was so massive.
而我自己与绿灯和红灯之间的差异是如此之大。
It was like a terrifying experience.
这就像一次可怕的经历。
And I switched the light off.
我关掉了灯。
I couldn't look at myself for long.
我无法长时间审视自己。
And I cried.
我哭了。
I sobbed.
我抽泣着。
It turned out that Jason had an actual neurological condition.
事实证明，杰森确实患有神经系统疾病。
There was a name for what was going on.
所发生的事情有一个名字。
It's this condition called PMO, prosopometamorphopsia.
这种病症称为 PMO（prosopometamorphopsia）。
Say it again?
再说一遍？
Jason Werbeloff Prosopometamorphopsia.
贾森·韦贝洛夫（Jason Werbeloff）
[LAUGHS] And it's actually worse than that because the particular kind I have is called hemi-prosopometamorphopsia.
[笑]实际上比这更糟糕，因为我拥有的特殊类型被称为半前变形视症。
Not much is known about PMO.
人们对 PMO 知之甚少。
It's extremely rare.
这是极其罕见的。
But for people with the disorder, facial features distort, melting and swelling until the expression of the person is so twisted, it looks demonic, an exaggerated snarl that, for Jason, was impossible to tell wasn't real.
但对于患有这种疾病的人来说，面部特征会扭曲、融化和肿胀，直到人的表情变得如此扭曲，看起来很恶魔，一种夸张的咆哮，对杰森来说，根本无法辨别是不是真的。
And sitting in that dark room, looking at his face in the mirror, suddenly the last 13 years made a certain morbid sense to Jason.
坐在那个黑暗的房间里，看着镜子中自己的脸，过去的13年突然对杰森产生了一种病态的感觉。
So that was the very first time that you realized that none of this was real, that it was all just a projection?
所以那是你第一次意识到这一切都不是真实的，这一切都只是一个投影？
Yeah.
是的。
It gives me goosebumps now to think about it.
现在想起来我就起鸡皮疙瘩。
It felt like the biggest thing of my whole life, bigger than anything.
这感觉就像我一生中最重要的事情，比任何事情都重要。
Since he found out, Jason's been working with a researcher at Dartmouth who studies this condition, a man named Brad Duchaine.
自从杰森发现这一情况以来，他一直在与达特茅斯学院的一位研究人员布拉德·杜链（Brad Duchaine）合作研究这种情况。
And looking back, they realized that all of his symptoms started after he'd had this really bad case of mono in his early 20s, right before he started dating Marius, actually.
回想起来，他们意识到他所有的症状都是在他二十岁出头患上这种严重的单核细胞增多症之后开始的，实际上就在他开始和马吕斯约会之前。
So they think that that's what caused it.
所以他们认为这就是造成这一情况的原因。
PMO seems like it can come on after an illness or trauma to the brain.
PMO 似乎可能在大脑患病或受伤后出现。
And here's another quirk of the disorder.
这是这种疾病的另一个怪癖。
For some people, including Jason, the distortions are harder to notice if the person he's looking at is wearing glasses, because, apparently, glasses interrupt the typical way that a face is processed by the brain.
对于包括杰森在内的一些人来说，如果他所看到的人戴着眼镜，这种扭曲就更难注意到，因为显然，眼镜中断了大脑处理面部的典型方式。
It's an obstruction that kind of resets things.
这是一种重置事物的障碍。
So if you wear glasses, you can look perfectly fine.
所以如果你戴上眼镜，你看起来就很完美。
But even knowing all this, it's obvious that it's still surprisingly hard for Jason to put aside something that he's seeing with his own eyes.
但即使知道这一切，很明显，杰森仍然很难抛开他亲眼所见的东西。
Jason has literally spent months working with researchers, building a detailed understanding of his disorder and how it changes his visual experience.
杰森确实花了几个月的时间与研究人员合作，详细了解了他的疾病以及它如何改变他的视觉体验。
But still, emotionally, it's just so hard to ignore.
但在情感上，它仍然很难被忽视。
Like one time, Jason and I were talking over Zoom, which is typically a little bit tough for Jason, because if he has to look directly at a face for too long, it'll distort.
就像有一次，杰森和我在 Zoom 上聊天，这对杰森来说通常有点困难，因为如果他必须直视一张脸太久，它就会扭曲。
But fortunately, I was wearing glasses.
但幸运的是，我戴着眼镜。
So your face is totally fine now.
所以你的脸现在完全没问题了。
There's zero changes.
零变化。
Because I have glasses on?
因为我戴眼镜？
Jason Werbeloff Yeah.
杰森·沃贝洛夫 是的。
If you took them off--
如果你把它们脱下来——
So if I took off my glasses, then what happens?
那么如果我摘下眼镜，会发生什么呢？
So now your right eye is moving up, and it's starting to move across.
所以现在你的右眼正在向上移动，并且开始横向移动。
OK, so now this part of your nose is getting dark and pushing in.
好的，现在你鼻子的这一部分变黑并且向内推。
The bridge of my nose.
我的鼻梁。
Jason Werbeloff This top of your nose-- yeah, it flattens into your face.
Jason Werbeloff 你鼻子的顶部——是的，它压平了你的脸。
And then this part of your cheek drifts out, bulges out.
然后你脸颊的这一部分就会飘出、凸出。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Alix Spiegel And does it affect the way that you feel about me right now?
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 这会影响你现在对我的感觉吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I try not to let it because I know.
我尽量不让它发生，因为我知道。
My conscious mind knows that that's not real, but my unconscious feels the threat.
我的意识知道那不是真的，但我的潜意识感受到了威胁。
And when I look at a face front on intensely for a while, my heart rate goes up.
当我长时间注视正面面孔时，我的心率会加快。
My voice catches in my throat.
我的声音哽在喉咙里。
It just feels uncomfortable.
只是感觉不舒服。
It's not a nice experience.
这不是一个很好的经历。
And I just instinctively keep looking away and back so that I don't have to see it.
我只是本能地不断把目光移开然后回头看，这样我就不必看到它了。
Here, let me put on my glasses.
来，让我戴上眼镜。
Now, I'm perfectly fine, right?
现在，我很好，对吧？
Perfectly fine.
完全没问题。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
In fact, for me, you're now a different person.
事实上，对于我来说，你现在已经是另外一个人了。
So, I feel quite warm towards this person, but the other person, I didn't really like.
所以，我对这个人感觉很温暖，但是另一个人，我不太喜欢。
For all those years, all those relationships, Jason had been seeing the world through a distorted lens and didn't know it.
这么多年，所有这些关系，杰森一直通过一个扭曲的镜头来看待这个世界，而自己却浑然不觉。
Now that he knows, Jason has developed workarounds that he didn't have before.
现在杰森知道了，他已经开发出了以前没有的解决方法。
Like when he goes out to dinner, he sits next to a person, not across from them.
就像他出去吃饭时，他坐在一个人旁边，而不是坐在他们对面。
He also has green lights for his home.
他的家也亮了绿灯。
All of that has eased things.
所有这些都缓解了事情。
He even has a partner now.
他现在甚至还有一个伙伴。
They've been together for a while.
他们已经在一起有一段时间了。
Do you think he's somebody that you could have the kind of relationship with that you imagined as a child?
你认为他是你可以和你建立小时候想象的那种关系的人吗？
No. Alix Spiegel Because it's hard to live with somebody or?
不。Alix Spiegel 因为和某人一起生活很难，或者？
Yeah.
是的。
We did live together for a while, for about six months, and it was very hard.
我们确实住在一起了一段时间，大约六个月，这非常艰难。
It's not just that faces change.
改变的不仅仅是面孔。
It's that I've built up a whole lifestyle around that where I go to sleep very late so that I'm not around people, so that I can spend a lot of time by myself.
我已经建立了一套完整的生活方式，我会睡得很晚，这样我就不会和别人在一起，这样我就可以花很多时间独处。
I've built up a whole way of coping with this.
我已经建立了一整套应对这个问题的方法。
And living with someone really undermines a lot of that.
和某人住在一起确实会破坏很多东西。
And it was very hard for me.
这对我来说非常困难。
Do you think that you'll ever be able to really, really, really trust a romantic partner?
你认为你能够真正、真正、真正信任一个浪漫的伴侣吗？
For the rest of his life, Jason will be surrounded by the faces of demons, and he says his heart will always jump when he sees them because it always, always does.
在杰森的余生中，他将被恶魔的面孔所包围，他说，当他看到它们时，他的心总是会跳动，因为它总是、总是这样。
But he knows he doesn't have to listen to those warnings, that the ghouls that he sees are only projections.
但他知道他不必听那些警告，他所看到的食尸鬼只是投影。
They mean him no harm.
他们无意伤害他。
Alix Spiegel is a producer on our show.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔是我们节目的制片人。
Coming up, a person finds a way to create an almost unlimited quantity of gold.
接下来，一个人找到了一种方法来创造几乎无限数量的黄金。
What could go wrong?
可能会出什么问题？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Tobin Low, in for Ira Glass.
我是托宾·洛 (Tobin Low)，代表艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
Today's show, How Are You Not Seeing This?
今天的节目，你怎么没看到呢？
Stories of people struggling to agree about what's right in front of their faces.
人们努力就眼前的事情达成一致的故事。
We're at Act Three.
我们到了第三幕。
Act Three, "Pump It Up."
第三幕，“加油”。
So in this next story, the fate of the entire world is at stake.
因此，在下一个故事中，整个世界的命运都受到威胁。
And one person finds himself completely alone, surrounded by people who just do not get what has to happen.
一个人发现自己完全孤独，周围的人都不明白会发生什么。
The person is our very own David Kestenbaum.
这个人就是我们自己的大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
And the thing that he was trying to do was to replace the furnace in his house with a heat pump.
他想做的就是用热泵取代家里的炉子。
The furnace he was replacing ran off natural gas, a fossil fuel.
他要更换的熔炉使用天然气（一种化石燃料）。
The heat pump, much greener, runs off electricity and can miraculously both heat and cool.
热泵更加环保，不需要电力，并且可以奇迹般地加热和冷却。
When David saw the federal government was offering people $2,000 tax credits to switch to heat pumps, he figured it would be easy.
当 David 看到联邦政府为人们提供 2,000 美元的税收抵免以改用热泵时，他认为这很容易。
It was not.
事实并非如此。
David here has this, uh, guide as how to get your heat pump and tax credit.
大卫这里有这个，呃，关于如何获得热泵和税收抵免的指南。
If you want to get a heat pump, you'll start with the usual thing of asking a bunch of HVAC companies to come out and give you estimates.
如果您想购买热泵，您将首先要求一群暖通空调公司出来给您估价。
They'll pull up in their little vans with the company's names on the side, poke around your house, measure some things.
他们会开着侧面印有公司名称的小货车停下来，在你的房子周围探查，测量一些东西。
You'll tell them you want a heat pump.
你会告诉他们你想要一个热泵。
They'll say they usually install gas furnaces, and why don't you stick with that?
他们会说他们通常安装煤气炉，你为什么不坚持这样做呢？
You'll tell them you're worried about climate change.
你会告诉他们你担心气候变化。
And, you point out, the heat pump is actually a little cheaper when you include the new tax credit.
而且，您指出，如果考虑到新的税收抵免，热泵实际上会便宜一些。
You just need to make sure the one they install qualifies for the tax credit, which is when they'll tell you they've never heard of the tax credit, even though it's been around for a year.
您只需要确保他们安装的设备符合税收抵免资格，此时他们会告诉您他们从未听说过税收抵免，即使它已经存在一年了。
Undeterred, after they leave, you'll go to the IRS website because you want to make sure you get a heat pump that qualifies.
但你不会被吓倒，在他们离开后，你会访问国税局网站，因为你想确保你得到的是合格的热泵。
On the IRS website, you'll find this-- heat pumps with a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75% qualify.
在 IRS 网站上，您会发现热效率等级至少为 75% 的热泵符合资格。
That seems simple, except you won't know what thermal efficiency rating is.
这看起来很简单，只是您不知道什么是热效率等级。
No matter because it turns out this is wrong.
没关系，因为事实证明这是错误的。
You'll find out this is wrong from a second IRS document, which is very clear.
从第二份国税局文件中你会发现这是错误的，该文件非常清楚。
It says, in order to get your $2,000, the heat pump must satisfy, quote, "the energy efficiency requirements in Q1." You may wonder if Q1 refers to the first financial quarter.
它说，为了获得 2,000 美元，热泵必须满足“第一季度的能源效率要求”。您可能想知道第一季度是否指的是第一财务季度。
It does not.
事实并非如此。
It refers to question 1 further down in the document, which says that heat pumps must, quote, "meet or exceed the highest efficiency tier, not including any advanced tier, established by the Consortium for Energy Efficiency that is in effect as of the beginning of the year in which the property is placed in service." This will fill you with despair until you see that there is a searchable database of equipment that'll meet the qualifications.
它进一步提到了文件中的问题1，其中指出热泵必须“达到或超过能源效率联盟制定的最高效率等级，不包括任何高级等级，该等级自该物业投入使用的年初起生效。”这会让您感到绝望，直到您看到有一个可搜索的符合资格的设备数据库。
That sounds great, but there is no link.
听起来不错，但没有链接。
So you google around and find a government website that has a link with instructions for how to use the database.
因此，您通过谷歌搜索并找到一个政府网站，其中包含有关如何使用数据库的说明的链接。
But the link does not load.
但链接无法加载。
You will wait five minutes for it to load because you figure it'll sort itself out.
您将等待五分钟才能加载，因为您认为它会自行解决。
But it does not.
但事实并非如此。
You try back the next day, and no, it really does not seem to exist.
你第二天再尝试，不，它似乎真的不存在。
The only way forward seems to be to look up the actual requirements for you to get your $2,000 tax credit.
唯一的出路似乎是查找您获得 2,000 美元税收抵免的实际要求。
You go to the Consortium for Energy Efficiency website, where you will finally find it spelled out.
您访问能源效率联盟网站，您最终会在其中找到详细说明。
And I am going to have to spell here because these are not words.
我必须在这里拼写，因为这些不是单词。
The heat pumps SEER2, EER2, HSPF2, and COP measured at 5 degrees Fahrenheit, all have to be above certain values.
在 5 华氏度下测量的热泵 SEER2、EER2、HSPF2 和 COP 都必须高于特定值。
You will also learn here a fact skipped over elsewhere.
您还将在这里了解到其他地方跳过的事实。
If you are in the northern US, there are different requirements.
如果您在美国北部，则有不同的要求。
You'll need a cold climate rated one.
您需要一台具有寒冷气候等级的产品。
At this point, you will cry because how are we ever going to solve climate change if this is what it takes to get one heat pump installed in one house?
此时，您会哭泣，因为如果这就是在一所房子里安装一台热泵所需要的，我们将如何解决气候变化呢？
At some point in your searches, you will find something hopeful-- a government web page that seems designed for simple people like you, energystar.gov.
在您搜索的某个时刻，您会发现一些有希望的东西——一个似乎是为像您这样的简单人设计的政府网页，energystar.gov。
It's run by the EPA, and it's friendly, with iStock type photos of parents playing happily with children on couches.
它由 EPA 运营，而且很友好，有 iStock 类型的照片，照片上父母和孩子们在沙发上快乐地玩耍。
This is where you should have been all along.
这就是你一直应该待的地方。
It's basically a database with a nice, clean design.
它基本上是一个设计精美、简洁的数据库。
It shows you a giant list of heat pumps.
它向您展示了一份巨大的热泵列表。
There are search filters on the left-hand side.
左侧有搜索过滤器。
There's even a box for tax credit eligible.
甚至还有一个符合税收抵免资格的框。
So you check that.
所以你检查一下。
And now it's showing only heat pumps it says are tax credit eligible.
现在它只显示了它所说的符合税收抵免资格的热泵。
But you soon realize there was a problem.
但你很快就意识到有问题。
It's not taking into account the fact that the requirements are different if you live in northern states.
它没有考虑到如果您居住在北部各州，要求会有所不同这一事实。
This seems really bad.
这看起来真的很糟糕。
It should say, if you live in the north, only these ones.
应该说，如果你住在北方，就只有这些了。
There is a box to check for cold climate certified for people who live in the north.
有一个框可以检查是否适合居住在北方的人的寒冷气候。
But if you click that, for some reason, it doesn't change the search results.
但如果您单击该按钮，由于某种原因，它不会更改搜索结果。
You will puzzle over this for a long time and finally realize, even though you are asking it to show you things that are tax credit eligible and cold climate certified, it is showing you things that qualify for either, not both.
您会对此困惑很长一段时间，并最终意识到，即使您要求它向您展示符合税收抵免资格和寒冷气候认证的东西，它也向您展示符合其中任何一个的东西，而不是两者都符合。
Because you are a journalist, you will reach out to the EPA about this.
因为您是一名记者，您将就此事联系美国环保局。
There will be a very awkward 20-minute interview with a public affairs specialist named Denise, who will seem surprised by this fact, that when you click on cold climate certified, it still shows you things that are not cold climate certified.
将会有一个非常尴尬的 20 分钟采访，一位名叫丹尼斯的公共事务专家，她似乎对这个事实感到惊讶，当你点击寒冷气候认证时，它仍然向你显示未经寒冷气候认证的东西。
Denise will click and see this for herself.
丹尼斯将点击并亲眼看到这一点。
Then, another press person on the call will interrupt to ask, if the whole interview can instead be on background, if they can get you someone else to talk to.
然后，另一位接听电话的媒体人员会打断询问，整个采访是否可以在后台进行，是否可以为您找其他人交谈。
They will not get you someone else to talk to.
他们不会为您找其他人交谈。
They will not fix the website.
他们不会修复该网站。
Two months will pass.
两个月就过去了。
They will send an update saying they are waiting for a possible update from the IRS about which heat pumps qualify.
他们将发送一条更新消息，表示他们正在等待美国国税局关于哪些热泵符合资格的可能更新信息。
You do eventually buy what you hope is a heat pump that qualifies.
您最终确实购买了您希望合格的热泵。
A nice man named Algernon will come over with a crew and install it in a few hours.
一个名叫阿尔杰农（Algernon）的好人会带着工作人员过来并在几个小时内安装它。
This is really nice, he will say.
他会说，这真的很好。
I think I might get one for myself.
我想我可能会为自己买一件。
David Kestenbaum is our senior editor.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 是我们的高级编辑。
Months after David talked to the EPA, just recently, the government did finally fix the website.
大卫与美国环保局交谈几个月后，就在最近，政府终于修复了该网站。
The URL is www.energystar.gov/productfinder/product/certified-heat-pumps/results.
网址为 www.energystar.gov/productfinder/product/certified-heat-pumps/results。
Then you got to click a couple more times on the right things, and then at the end, select the Data tab.
然后，您必须在正确的内容上再单击几次，最后选择“数据”选项卡。
Anyway, good luck.
无论如何，祝你好运。
Act Four, "I'm Great.
第四幕“我很棒。
Thanks for Not Asking." This last story's about a person going through something, and they want to share it with their friend.
谢谢你不问。”最后一个故事是关于一个人正在经历一些事情，他们想与他们的朋友分享。
But that can be hard sometimes.
但这有时可能很难。
It's a short story by Marie Philips.
这是玛丽·菲利普斯的短篇小说。
Here's Marie.
这是玛丽。
We meet at the bar that you chose, 20 minutes from your place and an hour from mine.
我们在您选择的酒吧见面，距离您的住处 20 分钟路程，距离我的住处 1 小时路程。
I'm five minutes early.
我早到了五分钟。
You're 25 minutes late.
你迟到了25分钟。
You text me that you're on your way and ask me to order you a gin and tonic.
你给我发短信说你正在路上，并让我给你点一杯杜松子酒和奎宁水。
The ice is already half melted when you flop down in your seat and say, "My god, it's been forever.
当你倒在座位上说：“天啊，这已经是永远了。”时，冰已经融化了一半。
How are you?"
你怎么样？”
But I can see in your eyes that "how are you" is not a genuine question.
但我从你的眼神中看出，“你好吗”并不是一个真正的问题。
It's just a piece of perfunctory politeness, a chance to give me a sentence or two before we get down to the real business of the evening, which is talking about you.
这只是一种敷衍的礼貌，在我们开始讨论今晚的正题（即谈论你）之前给我一个机会说一两句话。
I don't know how this happened.
我不知道这是怎么发生的。
We used to share everything.
我们曾经分享一切。
But lately, I feel like you've been slipping away from me and taking less and less interest in my life.
但最近，我感觉你已经离我而去，对我的生活越来越不感兴趣。
So I know that you don't want me to tell you about what it's like to still be living with my mum in a sketchy suburb of South London that you've never visited because you can't reach it on the Underground.
所以我知道你不想让我告诉你仍然和我妈妈住在伦敦南部一个简陋的郊区的感觉，你从未去过那里，因为你无法乘坐地铁到达那里。
You don't want to know about how broke we got, how we resorted to selling our possessions on eBay or, rather, how I resorted to selling my mum's possessions with her permission because she still finds the internet confusing and asks me what her passwords are 50 times per day.
你不会想知道我们有多破产，我们如何在 eBay 上出售我们的财产，或者更确切地说，我如何在我妈妈的允许下出售她的财产，因为她仍然觉得互联网令人困惑，每天问我她的密码是什么 50 次。
I don't know, Mum.
我不知道，妈妈。
They're not my passwords.
它们不是我的密码。
Why don't you write them down?
你为什么不把它们写下来呢？
You don't want to hear about how I got catfished by some guy into selling him our beloved cow for some beans, the cow who lived in our garden, which, contrary to what our neighbors say, is completely legal.
你不会想听我是如何被某个人骗了，为了一些豆子而把我们心爱的牛卖给他的，这头牛住在我们的花园里，与我们邻居的说法相反，这是完全合法的。
It's just that most people don't have one.
只是大多数人都没有。
Anyway, I sold her for beans.
不管怎样，我把她卖了换豆子。
And what would happen if I told you how my mum yelled and yelled at me about these stupid beans and how I threw them in the compost heap, and then the next day, there was a beanstalk that went all the way up to the sky?
如果我告诉你我妈妈如何对我大喊大叫这些愚蠢的豆子以及我如何将它们扔进堆肥堆，然后第二天，有一个豆茎一直升到天空，会发生什么？
You'd probably just hijack the conversation to say that you're growing tomatoes this year.
你可能会劫持谈话，说你今年正在种植西红柿。
If you cared, you'd know that my garden is north-facing and tomatoes won't grow there.
如果你关心的话，你就会知道我的花园朝北，那里不会长西红柿。
And I love tomatoes.
我喜欢西红柿。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
I'm not going to tell you about how I climbed that beanstalk because I don't want to hear about your triathlon training, actually.
我不会告诉你我是如何爬上豆茎的，因为我实际上不想听你的铁人三项训练。
As it happens, there was a land out there and a house with a giant living in it.
碰巧，那里有一块土地和一座房子，里面住着一个巨人。
But I'm going to keep that to myself.
但我会保留这个秘密。
You'd only ask about what the property values are up in the sky in beanstalk land, and would it be a nice place to have a second home.
你只会问豆茎地的房产价值是多少，以及它是否是一个拥有第二个家的好地方。
If you really cared how I am, you'd read my newsletter.
如果你真的关心我的情况，你就会阅读我的时事通讯。
And you'd already know that when I got to the house, the giant said, "Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman.
你已经知道，当我到达房子时，巨人说：“Fee Fi Fo Fum，我闻到了一个英国人的血腥味。
Be he live or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread." You obviously didn't read my essay on what it was like to be misgendered by a cannibal.
无论他活着还是死了，我都会磨碎他的骨头来做面包。”你显然没有读过我关于被食人者误判性别的文章。
If we were still true friends, maybe I would trust you enough to tell you how I had to hide in the oven, an oven that other humans had literally been cooked in, until the giant fell asleep.
如果我们仍然是真正的朋友，也许我会足够信任你，告诉你我如何不得不躲在烤箱里，一个其他人类实际上被煮熟的烤箱里，直到巨人睡着。
And then I stole a bag of gold from him on the way out.
然后我在出去的时候偷了他一袋金子。
I don't want a lecture.
我不想听讲座。
In my opinion, it's restorative justice.
在我看来，这就是恢复性司法。
But whatever.
但无论如何。
Anyway, it doesn't matter, because as you were so fond of reminding me, I'm terrible at budgeting, and I canned the lot on the Real Real.
无论如何，这并不重要，因为正如你非常喜欢提醒我的那样，我在预算方面很糟糕，而且我把很多东西都放在了 Real Real 上。
Yes, the gold is all gone.
是的，金子都没有了。
So I had to go back up the beanstalk.
所以我不得不回到豆茎上。
I can just picture you stifling a yawn as I tell you how I went through the whole Fee Fi Fo thing again, and that this time, there wasn't a bag of gold, just a goose that lays golden eggs, and how I took her instead.
当我告诉你我如何再次经历整个“费菲弗”的事情时，我可以想象你强忍住哈欠，这一次，没有一袋金子，只有一只下金蛋的鹅，以及我如何带走了她。
Do you want to know how she is, too?
你也想知道她怎么样吗？
Pretty discombobulated at living in South London.
在伦敦南部的生活相当混乱。
She doesn't like the traffic noise.
她不喜欢交通噪音。
Plus, as it turns out, it's quite hard to find someone who'll cash a golden egg for you and not ask too many questions about where you got it.
另外，事实证明，很难找到一个愿意为你兑现金蛋而不问太多关于你从哪里得到它的问题的人。
No, I do not want to hear that you have a guy.
不，我不想听到你有男人了。
I still remember what it was like when I called the accountant you recommended, and she told me that she doesn't do jobs that small.
我还记得当我打电话给你推荐的会计师时，她告诉我她不做那么小的工作。
Geese don't lay eggs forever.
鹅不会永远下蛋。
And ours has already started to slow down, fewer and fewer all the time.
而我们的速度已经开始放缓，而且越来越少。
I doubt you care that once a goose has lost her fertility, she's considered worthless.
我怀疑你是否关心一旦鹅失去生育能力，她就会被认为毫无价值。
But for me?
但对我来说呢？
Hard identify.
很难辨认。
I'm not going to tell you about that, though, because you have no idea how it feels to be approaching midlife while childless.
不过，我不会告诉你这个，因为你不知道在没有孩子的情况下接近中年是什么感觉。
Otherwise you would not keep going on at me about how you were transformed by parenthood.
否则你不会一直对我说你是如何因为人父母而改变的。
And only now do you know the true meaning of love.
而现在你才知道爱的真谛。
You will never know the beauty of becoming close to a bird.
你永远不会知道亲近鸟儿的美妙。
Though, having said that, because of the no more eggs thing, which could happen any day now, she will not solve our financial woes indefinitely.
尽管如此，话虽如此，由于没有鸡蛋的事情随时可能发生，她不会无限期地解决我们的财务困境。
Plus, can you imagine what it's like to be financially dependent on a menopausal goose?
另外，你能想象在经济上依赖一只更年期的鹅是什么感觉吗？
No, I don't think you can.
不，我认为你不能。
Oh, by the way, does your husband still run that hedge fund?
哦，顺便问一下，你丈夫还在经营那个对冲基金吗？
Well, anyway, I discussed it with my mum, and we decided that I had to go back up the beanstalk.
好吧，无论如何，我和妈妈讨论了这个问题，我们决定我必须回到豆茎上。
She couldn't do it because she has problems with her knees.
她无法做到这一点，因为她的膝盖有问题。
Not that you asked how she is.
不是你问她怎么样。
So, Fee Fi Fo Fum again.
所以，再次Fee Fi Fo Fum。
That little sting of being misgendered for the third time, but don't worry about it.
第三次性别错误的小刺痛，但不用担心。
And the long and the short of it is that I stole a talking harp who kept yelling out, "Master, master!" because he has Stockholm syndrome or something.
总而言之，我偷了一把会说话的竖琴，它一直喊着：“师父，师父！”因为他有斯德哥尔摩综合症什么的。
And the giant heard it and chased us down the beanstalk.
巨人听到了，就沿着豆茎追赶我们。
And I was freaking out like, this is it!
我吓坏了，就是这样！
I am literally toast!
我真的是吐司！
But I got to the bottom first, and I chopped down the beanstalk with my mother's ax.
但我先到了底部，我用妈妈的斧头砍倒了豆茎。
And it came crashing to the ground, and the giant died.
它坠落到地上，巨人死了。
But why would I tell you that?
但我为什么要告诉你这些？
You'd just miss the point completely and ask some irrelevant question, like why does my mother have an ax?
你只会完全没有抓住重点，问一些无关紧要的问题，比如为什么我妈妈有一把斧子？
The thing is, though, I miss you.
但问题是，我想念你。
We used to have so much in common before you met your husband and started hanging out with his North London friends.
在你遇到你的丈夫并开始和他的北伦敦朋友出去玩之前，我们曾经有很多共同点。
I remember when we were teenagers, and you ran away from home.
我记得我们十几岁的时候，你离家出走。
You were living in a houseshare and working as a cleaner after school.
你住在合租房里，放学后做清洁工。
You knew what it was like to go through tough times.
你知道经历艰难时期是什么感觉。
Back then, you would ask me how I am and mean it.
那时，你会问我怎么样，而且是认真的。
I wish I could find the right words, the right question to remind you of that time, to bring you back to me.
我希望我能找到合适的词语、合适的问题来提醒你那段时光，让你回到我身边。
But instead.
但相反。
I take a sip from my warm white wine and say, "I'm fine.
我喝了一口温热的白葡萄酒，说道：“我很好。
How are you?
你好吗？
Do you ever hear from those seven dwarves?"
你有那七个小矮人的消息吗？”
Marie Phillips.
玛丽·菲利普斯。
She's the author of multiple books, including Gods Behaving Badly.
她是多本书的作者，其中包括《上帝行为恶劣》。
This piece was produced by Bim Adewunmi.
该作品由 Bim Adewunmi 制作。
["DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE?" BY HUNTERS & COLLECTORS]
[“你看到我看到的了吗？”作者：猎人和收藏家]
Today's program was produced by Emmanuel Dzotsi and edited by David Kestenbaum.
今天的节目由 Emmanuel Dzotsi 制作，David Kestenbaum 编辑。
The people who put together today's show include Sean Cole, Phia Bennin, Zoe Chace, Michael Comite, Henry Larson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Sean Cole、Phia Bennin、Zoe Chace、Michael Comite、Henry Larson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Barry.
我们的执行编辑是埃马努埃莱·巴里。
Special thanks today to Brad Duchaine.
今天特别感谢 Brad Duchaine。
By the way, Tig Notaro, who you heard at the top of today's show, has a very funny podcast.
顺便说一句，您在今天节目的顶部听到的 Tig Notaro 有一个非常有趣的播客。
It's called Handsome.
就叫帅哥。
And you can listen wherever you get your podcasts.
您可以在任何有播客的地方收听。
You can also check out her tour dates at tignotaro.com.
您还可以在 tignotaro.com 查看她的巡演日期。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
You can stream our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely free.
您可以完全免费地观看我们的 800 多集档案。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to my boss, Ira Glass.
一如既往地感谢我的老板艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
We're always talking about the election, which voting bloc might sway the vote.
我们总是在谈论选举，哪个投票集团可能会左右选票。
Whenever it comes up, he runs into the room yelling, Gen--
每当这个问题出现时，他都会跑进房间大喊，Gen——
(SCREAMING) Z!
（尖叫）Z！
Tobin Low I'm Tobin Low.
托宾·洛 我是托宾·洛。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
["DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE?" BY HUNTERS & COLLECTORS]
[“你看到我看到的了吗？”作者：猎人和收藏家]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。