834: Yousef and the Fourth Move - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #834 | June 14, 2024 834: Yousef and the Fourth Move Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 834 集 | 2024 年 6 月 14 日 834：尤瑟夫和第四步 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Since the beginning of the war in Gaza, Yousef Hammash has been a master of good timing and good luck.
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯 自加沙战争爆发以来，优素福·哈马什一直是把握时机和运气的大师。
We did a story about him a few months ago.
几个月前我们做了一个关于他的故事。
Let me remind you for a minute who he is and how capably he got his family from place to place.
让我提醒您一下他是谁，以及他如何有能力把他的家人从一个地方带到另一个地方。
Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.
哈马斯于 10 月 7 日袭击以色列。
Yousef fled his home on October 8 because he was afraid that Jabalia, where he was from, was going to be bombed.
优素福于 10 月 8 日逃离家园，因为他担心自己的家乡贾巴利亚会遭到轰炸。
And the next day, October 9, Jabalia was bombed.
第二天，即 10 月 9 日，贾巴利亚遭到轰炸。
As the war moved, he moved a second time, down south, to a city called Khan Younis.
随着战争的进展，他第二次搬到南方，来到一个名叫汗尤尼斯的城市。
Then Israel dropped leaflets from the sky telling everybody to evacuate Khan Younis immediately and get to safety further south in Rafah.
然后以色列从天上投下传单，告诉大家立即撤离汗尤尼斯，前往更南部的拉法安全地带。
Yousef packed up the car that day, his wife Manal, his kids, his mom, and made his third move.
那天，尤瑟夫收拾了车、他的妻子玛娜尔、他的孩子和他的妈妈，开始了他的第三次搬家。
And this is around the time that he started having conversations with one of our producers here, Chana Joffe-Walt.
就在那时，他开始与我们的一位制片人查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 进行对话。
He told Chana that he knew his sisters, who were in Khan Younis, needed also to go to Rafah.
他告诉查纳，他知道在汗尤尼斯的姐妹们也需要去拉法。
And he kept wheedling, arguing, pleading, making promises, wearing them down.
他不断地哄骗、争论、恳求、做出承诺，并不断地消磨它们。
And they still did not move until an airstrike hit the building next to them.
而他们依然没有动弹，直到旁边的建筑遭到空袭。
Terrifying, right?
很可怕，对吧？
Yousef raced to where they were, and as soon as they saw each other, Yousef and his sister shared their relief by being exactly how they always are with each other.
尤瑟夫跑到了他们所在的地方，一看到对方，尤瑟夫和他的妹妹就因为他们一如往常的相处方式而感到欣慰。
The first thing I said today when I met them-- there is no discussion.
今天我见到他们时说的第一句话是——没有讨论。
We are leaving.
我们要离开了。
So you didn't hug them and cry and say, I'm so glad you survived.
所以你没有拥抱他们，哭着说，我很高兴你活了下来。
You said, get in the car.
你说，上车吧。
No, no, we have a different type of relation.
不，不，我们有不同类型的关系。
It's not about hugging them.
这不是拥抱他们。
I was laughing.
我在笑。
You should have died.
你应该死了。
[LAUGHS] I should be in the morgue now.
[笑]我现在应该在太平间里。
[LAUGHS] This is how I am with my sisters.
[笑]这就是我和我姐妹们的相处方式。
And did they laugh?
他们笑了吗？
What did they say to that?
他们对此有何评论？
Eh, Hadil was like, ah, you know.
呃，哈迪尔就像，啊，你知道。
Actually, they will start to give me orders quickly.
事实上，他们很快就会开始给我下订单。
You need to talk to our cousin Emani because he was hosting us.
你需要和我们的表弟埃马尼谈谈，因为他接待了我们。
You need to invite him.
你需要邀请他。
Also, go to our Uncle Eena because they wanted--
另外，去找我们的伊娜叔叔，因为他们想要——
Finally, he took his sisters to safety in Rafah in a tent camp that he built for them.
最后，他带着妹妹们来到了拉法的安全地带，在他为她们建造的帐篷营地里。
This was back in December.
这是十二月份的事了。
Over time, Yousef's tent camp of extended family in Rafah grew to 60 people, with Yousef managing it as mayor, repairman, caterer, driver, health care provider.
随着时间的推移，优素福在拉法的大家庭帐篷营地的人数增加到了 60 人，优素福以市长、修理工、餐饮服务商、司机和医疗保健提供者的身份管理着这个帐篷营地。
And then, on the same day Yousef's sister Aseel had a baby, bringing the population of the tent camp to 61, the prime minister of Israel announced he was planning to evacuate Rafah and invade the city where Yousef's family and over a million other Palestinians were living.
然后，就在优素福的妹妹阿塞尔生下孩子、使帐篷营地的人口达到 61 人的同一天，以色列总理宣布他计划撤离拉法并入侵优素福家人和其他超过一百万巴勒斯坦人居住的城市。
Yousef was facing moving everybody for a fourth time.
尤瑟夫第四次面临着调动所有人的问题。
And he's always been the one who's made this call for his family.
他一直是为家人发出这一呼吁的人。
Yousef's the one who decides.
尤瑟夫是做出决定的人。
It's too dangerous to stay where we are.
呆在原地太危险了。
And this is when we have to go.
这就是我们必须离开的时候。
It has to be now.
必须是现在。
And this is where we're going next.
这就是我们下一步要去的地方。
But this time, Yousef didn't know where to go next to keep everybody safe and together.
但这一次，优素福不知道接下来该去哪里才能保证每个人的安全和团结。
They got as far south as you can go in Gaza.
他们已经到达了加沙最南边的地方。
There really might not be another place to run to.
真的可能没有其他地方可以跑了。
He told Chana back then--
他当时告诉查娜——
I feel, to be honest, I don't want to think about that because I know there is no solution.
老实说，我觉得我不想考虑这个问题，因为我知道没有解决办法。
And unfortunately, this time, I'm completely useless because I ran out of options.
不幸的是，这一次我完全没用了，因为我别无选择。
So what am I going to do?
那我该怎么办呢？
I have never heard you talk like that, Yousef.
我从来没有听过你这样说话，尤瑟夫。
I've never heard you say that.
我从来没听你这么说过。
You're always the guy that's like, yeah, I'll figure it out.
你总是那种会说“是的，我会解决的”的人。
I'll call so-and-so tomorrow, or no, we don't have it right now, but I'll figure it out.
明天我会打电话给某某，或者不，我们现在没有，但我会弄清楚的。
I don't have options ahead of me.
我面前没有选择。
When I have options, I'll start to think deeply about it.
当我有选择的时候，我会开始深入思考。
But up to now, I'm completely useless.
但到现在为止，我完全没用。
But there was one other option.
但还有另一种选择。
It was just one that Yousef had never seriously considered.
这只是尤瑟夫从未认真考虑过的一个问题。
They could try to leave Gaza, which might seem like an obvious choice that anybody would want to do-- flee the place where bombs are falling, and it's getting harder and harder to find food and drinkable water.
他们可以尝试离开加沙，这似乎是任何人都想做的明显选择——逃离炸弹袭击的地方，寻找食物和饮用水变得越来越难。
But it's not an obvious choice for Yousef and for lots of people, as you'll hear.
但正如您将听到的那样，对于尤瑟夫和很多人来说，这并不是一个显而易见的选择。
Today, what happens when Yousef gets pressed into a fourth move, one that he has deeply mixed feelings about and is not even sure he can pull off.
今天，当尤瑟夫被迫采取第四步行动时会发生什么，他对此有着深深的复杂感，甚至不确定自己能否成功。
And that's to try to get his family out as quickly as possible before Israel invades the city where they're living.
这是为了在以色列入侵他们居住的城市之前尽快让他的家人离开。
Time, he knew, was not on his side.
他知道，时间并不站在他这一边。
And if you think you can imagine what that entails, let me tell you, you really do not know the half of it.
如果你认为你可以想象这意味着什么，让我告诉你，你真的不知道其中的一半。
You're about to witness feats of ingenuity, strokes of luck, and big piles of cash on a deadline against enormous odds.
你将亲眼目睹聪明才智的壮举、好运的降临，以及在最后期限内克服巨大困难而获得的大笔现金。
And also, you'll see how hard it is on this family to make this decision, how even trying to go tears them up, tears Yousef up.
而且，你还会看到这个家庭做出这个决定是多么困难，甚至试图去让他们流泪，让尤瑟夫流泪。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And with that, I'll turn things over to Chana.
有了这个，我会把事情交给查纳。
Yousef did not want to leave Gaza, where he's from, a place where he knows everyone, knows every system, has connections everywhere.
尤瑟夫不想离开加沙，他来自那里，在那里他认识每个人，了解每个系统，到处都有联系。
His job is doing humanitarian work in Gaza for Gazans, and his entire family is in Gaza.
他的工作是在加沙为加沙人开展人道主义工作，他的整个家庭都在加沙。
A core part of Yousef's identity is that he takes care of the family.
优素福身份的核心部分是他照顾家庭。
So Yousef had no plan to leave, did not even want to think about leaving Gaza.
所以优素福没有离开的计划，甚至不想考虑离开加沙。
And then, one day in February, he found out he might leave Gaza.
然后，二月的一天，他发现自己可能会离开加沙。
He was in the car with his wife, Manal, and their kids.
他和妻子玛纳尔以及孩子们在车里。
I was going with Manal to her parents.
我正和玛纳尔一起去她的父母那里。
We were visiting her parents.
我们去拜访她的父母。
And I had my daughter, Illya, five years old Illya, telling me that we are going to travel to Egypt.
我的女儿伊利亚（Illya），五岁的伊利亚（Illya），告诉我我们要去埃及旅行。
That meant to you they're talking about it during the day, and she's overhearing it?
对你来说这意味着他们白天谈论这件事，而她无意中听到了？
Yes.
是的。
So I understood that when my daughter came to ask me, it means that they reached the limit of how much they want to do it.
所以我明白，当女儿来问我的时候，就说明他们已经达到了想做的极限。
Yousef did not realize that a conversation had started among the women in his family that wasn't so much happening behind his back as just away from him, in the places he wasn't.
尤瑟夫没有意识到，他家里的女性之间已经开始了一场对话，这与其说是在他背后进行，不如说是在远离他的地方，在他不在的地方。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpeter Me, too, my dear.
[说阿拉伯语] 解释 我也是，亲爱的。
I've heard a lot about you.
我听说过很多关于你的事。
Manal says Yousef had told her and his mother he didn't want to leave.
玛纳尔说，尤瑟夫告诉她和他的母亲他不想离开。
But if they ever wanted to leave Gaza, he would make it happen.
但如果他们想离开加沙，他会让这件事发生。
And Manal and his mom said no. Their whole family's in Gaza.
马纳尔和他妈妈拒绝了。他们全家都在加沙。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpeter We felt it was wrong to travel and leave them behind.
[说阿拉伯语] Interpeter 我们觉得旅行而把他们抛在后面是错误的。
And Manal knew, like everyone thinking about leaving Gaza knows, if she left, there was a good possibility she'd never come back.
玛纳尔知道，就像每个想要离开加沙的人都知道的那样，如果她离开，她很可能永远不会再回来。
So, no. She said she didn't want to leave, and she meant it.
所以，不。她说她不想离开，而且她是认真的。
But then Manal thought, maybe?
但玛娜尔转念一想，也许吧？
The idea stuck to her.
这个想法一直萦绕在她心头。
She thought of it when her children screamed through bombing or when they begged for chicken, instead of more canned food, when she noticed Illya had forgotten all of her alphabet.
当她的孩子们在轰炸中尖叫时，或者当他们乞求鸡肉而不是更多罐头食品时，当她注意到伊利亚忘记了所有字母时，她就想到了这一点。
And she thought of it when she spent the entire day looking for wood to boil water so her kids could drink.
当她花了一整天的时间寻找木头来烧水以便孩子们喝水时，她想到了这一点。
She worried.
她担心。
What if they ran out of time?
如果他们没时间怎么办？
What if the Israelis showed up before Yousef had another plan?
如果以色列人在优素福制定另一个计划之前出现怎么办？
Then Manal mentioned all of this to one of Yousef's sisters, Aseel.
然后玛纳尔向尤瑟夫的一位姐妹阿塞尔提起了这一切。
Aseel is the sister who is most like Yousef-- decisive, a problem-solver, a planner.
阿瑟尔（Aseel）是最像尤瑟夫（Yousef）的姐姐——果断、问题解决者、计划者。
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpeter I went to Aseel.
[说阿拉伯语] Interpeter 我去了 Aseel。
She was the first to encourage me.
她是第一个鼓励我的人。
She said, let the children live a good life.
她说，让孩子们过上好日子吧。
Go, leave.
走吧，离开吧。
She encouraged me.
她鼓励我。
Honestly, Aseel is the closest to me because she's been my friend since childhood.
老实说，Aseel 是我最亲近的人，因为她从小就是我的朋友。
I consider her like a sister, my favorite friend and the best friend I have.
我认为她就像一个姐妹，我最喜欢的朋友，也是我最好的朋友。
For her to encourage me to do it, that was very good for me because she knew what my interests were and told me my best interest was in leaving Gaza.
她鼓励我这样做，这对我来说非常好，因为她知道我的兴趣是什么，并告诉我，我的最大兴趣是离开加沙。
I thought we should harden our hearts a bit and leave for the sake of our children.
我想，为了我们的孩子，我们应该坚强一点，离开。
The process of considering leaving Gaza in this war is not just one of weighing options, one item after another.
考虑在这场战争中离开加沙的过程不仅仅是权衡一个又一个选项的过程。
It's also getting people's blessings.
也得到了人们的祝福。
It's a series of permissions.
这是一系列的权限。
There was Aseel-- gave her blessing.
阿塞尔——给了她祝福。
Eventually, the other sisters did, too, knowing that they were not going to go, couldn't go.
最后，其他姐妹也去了，她们知道她们不会去，也不能去。
They had their own extended families and lives in Gaza.
他们在加沙有自己的大家庭和生活。
Yousef's mom, after some persuading, agreed to go with Manal and Yousef and the kids.
优素福的妈妈经过一番劝说，同意与玛纳尔、优素福和孩子们一起去。
So it was decided.
于是就决定了。
Manal told her kids they were going.
玛纳尔告诉她的孩子们他们要去。
And for her, that was the happiest moment, the relief of being able to say to her kids, this will end for you.
对她来说，那是最幸福的时刻，能够对她的孩子们说，这一切都会结束，她感到如释重负。
They were excited, so excited that Illya, the five-year-old, ended up breaking the news to her dad in the car before Manal even had a chance to tell him.
他们很兴奋，太兴奋了，以至于五岁的伊利亚在玛纳尔有机会告诉他之前，就在车里把这个消息告诉了她的父亲。
So you're thinking about leaving when?
那么你正在考虑什么时候离开？
Soon?
很快？
And how?
又如何呢？
First of all, it's very, very expensive.
首先，它非常非常昂贵。
Very expensive.
非常贵。
It's a very long process-- unclear process, actually.
这是一个非常漫长的过程——实际上还不清楚。
You know, there is a lot of playing here and there.
你知道，到处都有很多比赛。
I try to not ignore it, postpone it.
我尽量不忽视它，而是推迟它。
Unfortunately, when I think about the decision itself, I get lost quickly because there is loads of details behind that decision.
不幸的是，当我思考这个决定本身时，我很快就迷失了方向，因为这个决定背后有很多细节。
Ah, it's really difficult.
啊，确实很难。
But making that decision is not getting along with my personality.
但做出这样的决定并不符合我的个性。
It's not getting along with your personality?
这不符合你的性格吗？
Yes, 160 days of war, and that wasn't enough to raise the idea in my head that I should leave Gaza.
是的，160 天的战争，这还不足以让我产生离开加沙的想法。
Leaving now, it's kind of, I am escaping my responsibility towards my sisters, my responsibility toward my job, my responsibility towards my friends who I'm supporting.
现在离开，在某种程度上，我逃避了对姐妹的责任、对工作的责任、对我支持的朋友的责任。
But I'm standing ahead my responsibility towards my children.
但我仍然坚守着对孩子们的责任。
It's very-- I don't know.
这非常——我不知道。
It's very difficult decision if you put these two responsibilities in front of you, and you have to choose.
如果你把这两个责任摆在你面前，这是一个非常困难的决定，你必须做出选择。
This was March.
这是三月。
Israel continued to say, our plan is to invade Rafah.
以色列继续说，我们的计划是入侵拉法。
Yousef knew, if they did invade, they might close the border.
尤瑟夫知道，如果他们真的入侵，他们可能会关闭边境。
There was limited time to act.
采取行动的时间有限。
He agreed it was the right choice for his children.
他同意这对他的孩子来说是正确的选择。
And yet, everything about how this move was happening was different, slower than I'd seen Yousef act through the entire war-- not that he was stalling.
然而，这一举动发生的一切都不同，比我在整个战争中看到的尤瑟夫的行动要慢——并不是说他在拖延。
He'd made some calls.
他打了一些电话。
He was going through the steps.
他正在执行这些步骤。
But old Yousef would have made 1,000 calls, checking all the angles, calling in favors, urgently reading everything available about what Israel might do next and when.
但老尤瑟夫会打 1000 个电话，检查所有角度，寻求帮助，紧急阅读有关以色列下一步可能做什么以及何时做什么的所有信息。
And now, this Yousef did not sound like a person who knows there may only be a small window to make your next move.
而现在，这个尤瑟夫听起来不像是一个知道可能只有一个小窗口来采取下一步行动的人。
And it's easy to be too late.
而且很容易为时已晚。
But for me, to be honest, I am not thinking about it deeply.
但对于我来说，说实话，我并没有深入思考这个问题。
And I'm very sorry.
我很抱歉。
And I know it's a wrong way, but for me, the only thing that I can do is to keep avoiding thinking about it until it became more closer.
我知道这是一个错误的方式，但对我来说，我唯一能做的就是不断避免去想它，直到它变得更加接近。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Yousef Hammash I will do it.
优素福·哈马什 我会做的。
I'm starting the process and all of that.
我正在开始这个过程以及所有这一切。
Yeah, it's very long process, very complicated process.
是的，这是一个非常漫长的过程，非常复杂的过程。
Yousef couldn't talk about the process, how they'd get out on the record.
尤瑟夫无法谈论整个过程，也无法谈论他们如何公开记录。
He worried, justifiably, that any public statement could jeopardize their chances of getting out.
他担心任何公开声明都可能危及他们脱身的机会，这是有道理的。
What he could say was that he had paid to register his family to leave, and that at some point, his family's names would appear on a list of people allowed to cross the Rafah border.
他能说的是，他已经付费为家人办理离开登记，到了某个时候，他家人的名字就会出现在允许跨越拉法边境的人员名单上。
But when that would happen-- unclear.
但什么时候会发生——还不清楚。
Another week passed, then another.
又一周过去了，又一周过去了。
Those blessings Manal had collected from everyone in the family, they meant it, but the longer this wait went on, the blessings got a little worn.
玛纳尔从家里每个人那里收集到的祝福，他们是认真的，但等待的时间越长，祝福就变得有点磨损。
Yousef started seeing it when he checked in on his sisters.
当尤瑟夫检查他的姐妹们时，他开始看到这一点。
One of the incidents happened.
其中一件事发生了。
We had an issue between one of my sisters and her husband.
我的一个姐妹和她的丈夫之间发生了争执。
And when I went there, I had to, yaani, solve the issue there.
当我去那里时，我必须，yaani，解决那里的问题。
And I found out that my sisters were complaining.
我发现我的姐妹们在抱怨。
Yeah, so he's leaving.
是的，所以他要走了。
He's leaving us here in these circumstances.
在这种情况下他要把我们留在这里。
Blah, blah, blah.
巴拉，巴拉，巴拉。
And they were a bit annoyed.
他们有点生气。
So I was like, OK, now you were pushing for that.
所以我想，好吧，现在你正在推动这一点。
And now you are objecting that.
现在你却反对这一点。
Then I found out it's a moment that they were angry and all of that, and it's fine.
然后我发现那是他们生气的那一刻，一切都很好，但没关系。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Yousef Hammash I know how they feel about it.
优素福·哈马什（Yousef Hammash）我知道他们对此的感受。
And I know how they are scared.
我知道他们有多害怕。
And I believe they have the right to be scared.
我相信他们有权利感到害怕。
It does feel me guilty.
这确实让我感到内疚。
It makes me feel guilty.
这让我感到内疚。
But I am already guilty from the beginning.
但我从一开始就已经有罪了。
So I already--
所以我已经——
You already feel guilty.
你已经感到内疚了。
Yousef Hammash Yeah, I really feel guilty.
尤瑟夫·哈马什 是的，我真的感到内疚。
He was not doing his job keeping them safe and together.
他没有尽自己的职责来保证他们的安全和在一起。
But while he waited, Yousef really did try on the safety front.
但在等待的过程中，尤瑟夫确实在安全方面做了尝试。
He threw himself in to making sure his sisters would be OK without him there.
他全身心投入，以确保即使没有他在场，他的姐妹们也能过得很好。
He lined up a million backups-- a guy with a car in case they needed to leave quickly, a guy to help with broken phones, with internet problems.
他安排了一百万个后备人员——一个有车的人，以防他们需要快速离开，一个人可以帮助解决手机坏了和网络问题。
He told friends, I'm going to be calling on you.
他告诉朋友，我要去拜访你。
You need to look out for my sisters.
你需要照顾我的姐妹们。
He set up a contact at a currency shop so he could send money from Egypt.
他在一家货币商店建立了一个联系人，这样他就可以从埃及汇款。
And he stashed emergency cash with several different people he trusted.
他还把紧急现金存放在他信任的几个不同的人那里。
Yeah, there is a lot of things had to be put in place and to be designated for someone, because I found out that I was doing a lot of things.
是的，有很多事情必须落实到位并为某人指定，因为我发现我正在做很多事情。
You have definitely been doing a lot of things.
你肯定已经做了很多事情。
I would think you would need at least a dozen people to do all the jobs you've been doing.
我认为你至少需要十几个人来完成你一直在做的所有工作。
I believe a hundred people would never do the job with love and passion, as I was doing it.
我相信一百个人永远不会像我一样充满爱和热情地从事这项工作。
It was always part of, give me energy, always, when I am managing things for them.
当我为他们管理事情时，它总是给我能量的一部分。
That's the difference between me doing the job and a hundred people doing the job.
这就是我做这项工作和一百个人做这项工作之间的区别。
President Biden was warning Israel not to invade Rafah.
拜登总统警告以色列不要入侵拉法。
26 EU countries issued a statement saying an invasion of Rafah would be catastrophic.
26个欧盟国家发表声明称，入侵拉法将是灾难性的。
Yousef continued to wait.
尤瑟夫继续等待。
There continued to be bombings, drones, gunfire all the time, but also something new that Yousef noticed happening around him in Rafah and at the family's tent camp-- a slow motion collapse.
爆炸声、无人机声、枪声一直持续不断，但尤瑟夫注意到拉法的他周围和家人的帐篷营地也发生了一些新的事情——缓慢的倒塌。
Every day, Yousef would notice a new deterioration of just daily life.
每一天，尤瑟夫都会注意到日常生活出现了新的恶化。
There was no trash pickup, no police or services, nobody regulating traffic or businesses.
没有垃圾收集，没有警察或服务，没有人监管交通或商业。
There was no governance.
没有治理。
One day, he'd get a call that someone's mother-in-law used the shower when it wasn't her family's day.
有一天，他接到电话说某人的婆婆在非家庭日期间使用了淋浴。
And by the time Yousef arrived, the conflict had exploded for another day.
当优素福到达时，冲突又爆发了一天。
Yeah.
是的。
[LAUGHS] So my brother-in-law had a fight with one of the neighbors.
[笑]所以我姐夫和一位邻居打了一架。
And my two brothers-in-law beating that guy and insult him in a bad way.
我的两个姐夫殴打那个人并以恶劣的方式侮辱他。
And it happens that he's a friend of mine, and, ah, that was difficult.
碰巧他是我的朋友，啊，这很困难。
I had to intervene between both of them, apologizing here and there, trying to find the-- to mediate between them.
我不得不介入他们两人之间，时不时地道歉，试图找到——在他们之间进行调解。
What'd they fight about?
他们因为什么吵架？
Yousef Hammash Uh, small children had a fight.
尤瑟夫·哈马什 呃，小孩子们打架了。
They went to speak with him.
他们去跟他说话。
They didn't like the way he responded.
他们不喜欢他的回应方式。
It resulted in clashes by hand.
结果引发了手部冲突。
Today, I have another one with one of the other brother-in-law with another neighbor for another stupid reason.
今天，我又因为另一个愚蠢的原因与另一位姐夫和另一位邻居发生了另一件事。
The circumstances and what we are going through is pushing us to become unstable mentally.
我们正在经历的环境和事情正在促使我们的精神变得不稳定。
So everyone is under huge pressure from the amount of responsibilities that you have to do or just to move from a place to the other, just trying to get cash from a bank or an ATM.
因此，每个人都承受着巨大的压力，因为你必须承担大量的责任，或者只是从一个地方搬到另一个地方，只是想从银行或自动提款机取现金。
Everything is very dramatic.
一切都非常戏剧化。
The more of this Yousef saw, the more he settled in to the decision to go.
尤瑟夫见得越多，就越下定决心要离开。
Now it's really common.
现在这真的很常见。
We see people with guns, a lot of disputes between families, a lot of killing crimes, looting.
我们看到有人持枪，很多家庭之间的纠纷，很多杀人犯罪，抢劫。
And that's affecting the entire society itself.
这正在影响整个社会本身。
People are fighting for no reasons now.
人们现在无缘无故地战斗。
A few days ago, we had water trucking.
前几天，我们有运水车。
So they had a lot of humanitarian organizations have provide water trucking where they send drinkable waters by trucks to these areas.
因此，他们有很多人道主义组织提供运水服务，用卡车将饮用水运送到这些地区。
We had a small dispute on the line where people put their jerry cans in line.
我们在人们把油桶排队的地方发生了一场小争执。
Small disputes have resulted seven people killed, yaani.
亚尼，小纠纷已导致七人死亡。
It's simple as that.
就这么简单。
What happened?
发生了什么？
Yousef Hammash I wasn't there, but I was hearing the shooting.
优素福·哈马什：我当时不在场，但我听到了枪击声。
It's next to us directly.
它就在我们旁边。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Yousef Hammash It's like 100 meters away and a lot of ambulances.
Yousef Hammash 大约100米外，有很多救护车。
And what turned that fight is just a small line in front of drinking water.
这场争斗的转折点只是饮用水前面的一条小线。
So that's one of the things that pushing me to-- no, I have to rescue my children from that.
所以这是促使我去做的事情之一——不，我必须把我的孩子们从这种情况中拯救出来。
But, Yousef, you've seen Israeli bombs destroy homes.
但是，尤瑟夫，你已经看到以色列的炸弹摧毁了房屋。
You've seen much more dramatic than that.
你见过比这更戏剧性的事情。
Why did that get to you?
为什么你会受到这样的影响？
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
It feels different when you look to it as your own people.
当你将其视为自己的人民时，感觉会有所不同。
Then I don't justify for the Israelis what they are doing and what they are committing in Gaza.
那么我就不会为以色列人的所作所为以及他们在加沙的所作所为辩护。
But with all the aggression that they are doing, it's a bit different, the way you see it, when you see it among your own people.
但对于他们所做的所有侵略行为，当你在自己的人民中看到它时，你所看到的方式有点不同。
But societies can easily be fragile and destroyed like our society is destroyed now.
但社会很容易变得脆弱和被摧毁，就像我们的社会现在被摧毁一样。
Seven weeks after Israel announced plans to invade Rafah, Yousef and Manal were still waiting.
以色列宣布计划入侵拉法七周后，尤瑟夫和马纳尔仍在等待。
Every night, they would check a Telegram channel called the Land Port Rafah Crossing.
每天晚上，他们都会检查一个名为陆路拉法口岸的 Telegram 频道。
Around 10:00 PM, it would post screenshots of a printed list of names.
晚上 10:00 左右，它会发布打印的姓名列表的屏幕截图。
You'd have to zoom in on the photo, and if your name was on that list, you knew to show up at the Rafah crossing the next day.
你必须放大照片，如果你的名字在名单上，你就知道第二天会出现在拉法过境点。
You had been granted permission to cross.
你已获得过境许可。
300, sometimes 400, people a day.
每天 300 人，有时 400 人。
Yousef and Manal's names were never listed.
尤瑟夫和玛纳尔的名字从未被列出。
But Yousef started seeing the names of people he knew had registered not long before him showing up on the list.
但优素福开始看到他认识的人的名字在他出现在名单上不久之前就已经注册了。
By the end of March, he told me, it must be close.
他告诉我，到三月底，事情一定很接近了。
How are you feeling?
你感觉怎么样？
Yousef Hammash It's happening, and so I feel excited for that.
尤瑟夫·哈马什（Yousef Hammash）这一切正在发生，所以我对此感到兴奋。
You feel excited?
你感到兴奋吗？
Yousef Hammash Yeah, yeah, kind of afraid and excited at the same time.
Yousef Hammash 是的，是的，有点害怕，同时又很兴奋。
So I'm going for nowhere.
所以我无处可去。
It's like I'm abandoning a lot of things here in Gaza-- my social status, my value, my job, my career.
就像我在加沙放弃了很多东西——我的社会地位、我的价值观、我的工作、我的事业。
Ah, so to a new journey, and unfortunately, until now, I don't have any horizon where I'm going, what's the plan.
啊，所以要开始新的旅程了，不幸的是，到现在为止，我还没有任何关于我要去哪里的视野，有什么计划。
I'm surprised to hear you say you're excited.
听到你说你很兴奋，我很惊讶。
And excited in a weird way.
并且以一种奇怪的方式兴奋。
OK, it's like I want it to happen.
好吧，就像我希望它发生一样。
And it's like when you are going to get a needle.
这就像你要打针一样。
There is a pain that you go through it, and I just want to do it, hallas.
你经历它是一种痛苦，而我只想这么做，哈拉。
Oh, like when you're getting a shot, and you just want it to be over.
哦，就像当你接受注射时，你只想结束。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Chana Joffe-Walt So that's not really excited.
Chana Joffe-Walt 所以这并不是很令人兴奋。
That's like dread.
这就像恐惧一样。
Ah, I don't know.
啊，我不知道。
[LAUGHS] Chana Joffe-Walt [LAUGHS] That sounds more like--
[笑] Chana Joffe-Walt [笑] 听起来更像是——
English is not my language.
英语不是我的语言。
Chana Joffe-Walt [LAUGHS] That sounds more like dread to me than excitement.
Chana Joffe-Walt [笑] 对我来说，这听起来更像是恐惧而不是兴奋。
Nervous.
紧张的。
Nervous, maybe.
也许是紧张。
It's kind of, yeah, I just want to do it, hallas.
是的，我只是想这么做，哈拉。
Before that, I did the registration.
在此之前，我已经完成了注册。
I was OK with it.
我对此很满意。
I didn't think about it a lot.
我没有想太多。
And but since I registered, it became like a pain that is like, I just want to finish it.
但自从我注册以来，它变得像一种痛苦，就像，我只想完成它。
Mm-hmm, just want to be on the other side already of whatever is going to happen.
嗯嗯，只是想站在即将发生的事情的另一边。
Exactly.
确切地。
Chana Joffe-Walt What is this?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 这是什么？
This wait to be placed on a list, what is this?
这等待被列入名单，这是什么？
And you have to pay to get on the list?
而且你必须付费才能进入名单吗？
Why?
为什么？
There were, at the time, over a million people living in a city that was about to be invaded.
当时，有超过一百万人生活在一座即将被入侵的城市里。
There was one way out of Gaza.
离开加沙只有一种方法。
I wanted to understand what was this opaque process that Yousef was waiting on and could barely talk about.
我想了解尤瑟夫正在等待但几乎无法谈论的这个不透明的过程是什么。
Chana Joffe-Walt.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特。
Coming up, the actual price to get somebody out of Gaza.
接下来是让某人离开加沙的实际价格。
And yes, they're going to want that in cash.
是的，他们会想要现金。
No wire transfer, no credit card, no mobile payment.
没有电汇，没有信用卡，没有移动支付。
Good, old-fashioned cash only.
很好，老式的只收现金。
That's in a minute, on Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
一会儿之后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, we're returning to Yousef Hammash and his family in Rafah, who've been caught up in this war that began October 7 when Hamas crossed into Israel, killed nearly 1,200 Israelis, and took over 240 hostages, and has dragged on for nearly nine months now, over 37,000 Palestinians and over 1,500 Israelis dead and people like Yousef and his sisters trapped in the middle of the fighting.
今天的节目，我们将回到尤瑟夫·哈马什和他在拉法的家人，他们被卷入了这场战争。这场战争始于 10 月 7 日，当时哈马斯进入以色列，杀害了近 1,200 名以色列人，劫持了 240 名人质，现在已经持续了近 9 个月，超过 37,000 名巴勒斯坦人和 1,500 多名以色列人死亡，像尤瑟夫和他的姐妹们一样被困在战斗之中。
And back in February, when Yousef decided to try to leave Gaza, leave all this behind, it was hard getting everybody on board, handing off responsibilities.
早在二月份，当尤瑟夫决定尝试离开加沙，把这一切抛在脑后时，很难让每个人都参与其中并移交责任。
But also it was just literally hard to leave.
但实际上也很难离开。
It was hard to get out.
很难出去。
Yousef was cautious when it came to talking about this part of the process, so Chana started asking around.
尤瑟夫在谈论这部分过程时很谨慎，所以查纳开始四处询问。
How exactly does it work?
它到底是如何运作的？
How did a person get out of Gaza with the clock ticking?
一个人如何在时间紧迫的情况下逃离加沙？
Everybody wondering when and if Israel was really going to do what it had announced it was going to do and actually invade Rafah.
每个人都想知道以色列何时以及是否真的会像它宣布的那样，真正入侵拉法。
What procedure do you go through?
办理什么手续？
Who do you call?
你给谁打电话？
What form do you fill out to leave Gaza?
您需要填写什么表格才能离开加沙？
Here's Chana.
这是查娜。
You know it's not a clean, defensible operation when nobody who touches it will talk about it.
当接触过它的人都不会谈论它时，你就知道这不是一个干净、站得住脚的行动。
I spoke with Palestinians who went through the Rafah crossing, or were trying to, people who've reported on the system, people who work inside it.
我与曾经通过或试图通过拉法过境点的巴勒斯坦人、报告该系统的人以及在该系统内工作的人进行了交谈。
Almost everybody didn't want to talk publicly.
几乎每个人都不想公开谈论。
They all worried about pissing off the wrong people in the Egyptian military and intelligence.
他们都担心得罪埃及军方和情报部门的错误人士。
The first detailed document I read about how the Rafah crossing works was an investigation by a group of reporters at a site called the Organized Crime, Corruption, and Reporting Project.
我读到的第一份关于拉法过境点如何运作的详细文件是一群记者在一个名为“有组织犯罪、腐败和举报项目”的网站进行的调查。
And even they, the people who authored the report, did not want to be named.
甚至他们，即该报告的撰写者，也不愿透露姓名。
You can just say that I'm one of the OCCRP reporters who worked on this investigation.
你可以说我是参与此次调查的 OCCRP 记者之一。
There were several reporters working inside and outside Gaza.
有几名记者在加沙内外工作。
I'm going to call this one Naya.
我打算称这个为娜雅。
Naya explained, after October 7, when Hamas attacked Israel, officially, Palestinians in Gaza with no other passport were not allowed to leave through the Rafah border.
纳亚解释说，10月7日哈马斯袭击以色列后，加沙没有其他护照的巴勒斯坦人正式不允许通过拉法边境离开。
Israel closed every other exit point.
以色列关闭了所有其他出口点。
But pretty soon, these ads started popping up online, offering to get people out.
但很快，这些广告就开始在网上出现，试图让人们离开。
They were for brokers, people calling themselves travel agents or travel coordinators.
它们是为经纪人、自称旅行社或旅行协调员的人准备的。
Naya pulled up a couple of the ads while we were talking-- travel in luxury, your dignity and pride intact.
在我们谈话的时候，娜雅拿出了几则广告——奢华旅行，你的尊严和骄傲完好无损。
And really, I mean, it's like, they're so creepy and tacky at the same time.
真的，我的意思是，它们既令人毛骨悚然又俗气。
I mean-- wait.
我的意思是——等等。
Let me see if I can find it.
让我看看是否能找到它。
It was very funny.
这很有趣。
OK, there's one called the King's Coordinations.
好的，有一个叫做“国王坐标”的系统。
It says the strongest coordination on the level of Gaza.
它说是加沙层面最强有力的协调。
And then it says easy and guaranteed.
然后它说简单且有保证。
And it has a photo of the Sphinx and then a plane over that Sphinx and then a guy looking very modern, wearing a rucksack on his back and orange jeans.
它有一张狮身人面像的照片，然后是一架飞机飞过狮身人面像，然后是一个看起来非常现代的人，背着背包，穿着橙色牛仔裤。
It looks so funny.
看起来很有趣。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Why is that so funny to you?
为什么你觉得这么好笑？
Naya Because, I mean, the country is-- I mean, Gaza is a place of death and destruction.
纳亚 因为，我的意思是，这个国家——我的意思是，加沙是一个充满死亡和破坏的地方。
And the Sphinx is next to him, and the plane flies over the Sphinx.
而狮身人面像就在他旁边，飞机飞过狮身人面像。
Mm-hmm, like he's going to see the pyramids with his camera around his neck.
嗯嗯，就像他要把相机挂在脖子上去看金字塔一样。
Every war has its own manic economy.
每场战争都有其狂躁的经济。
These travel coordinators were sometimes charging $2,500 per person, sometimes $5,000.
这些旅行协调员的收费有时为每人 2,500 美元，有时为 5,000 美元。
It depended who you asked and when.
这取决于你问的是谁以及什么时候。
You could send the money from your phone or hand it to a coordinator in Gaza.
您可以通过手机汇款或将其交给加沙的协调员。
As best Naya and the other OCCRP reporters could find out, a lot of the money seemed to go to Egyptian intelligence, although Egypt has publicly denied this.
正如 Naya 和其他 OCCRP 记者所发现的那样，很多资金似乎都流向了埃及情报部门，尽管埃及已公开否认这一点。
And the price rose over time.
而且价格随着时间的推移而上涨。
A few months after the war started, we called one of the brokers ourselves and asked what exactly is the price now.
战争开始几个月后，我们亲自给一位经纪人打电话，询问现在的价格到底是多少。
And he said, sometimes it's $7,000, $10,000, or $12,000-- $12,000 per person, an astounding number.
他说，有时每人要 7,000 美元、10,000 美元或 12,000 美元——12,000 美元，这是一个令人震惊的数字。
Before the war started, the average person in Gaza made $3,700 a year.
战争爆发前，加沙人平均年收入为 3,700 美元。
It was very difficult for Palestinians trying to leave to tell who was legit or to price shop.
对于试图离开的巴勒斯坦人来说，很难分辨谁是合法的，也很难给商店定价。
People gave their money to brokers who disappeared.
人们把钱交给失踪的经纪人。
It was the Wild West.
那是狂野的西部。
And then, the entire system changed.
然后，整个系统发生了变化。
Egypt controls the Rafah crossing.
埃及控制了拉法口岸。
Here are some things Egypt did not want.
以下是埃及不想要的一些事情。
Egypt did not want Israel pushing Palestinians from Gaza into Egypt.
埃及不希望以色列将巴勒斯坦人从加沙地带赶到埃及。
It didn't want a refugee crisis.
它不希望出现难民危机。
It didn't want Hamas getting a foothold in Egypt.
它不希望哈马斯在埃及立足。
Egypt also didn't want to look like it was supporting the displacement of Palestinians by facilitating their exit out of Gaza.
埃及也不想让人觉得它通过帮助巴勒斯坦人离开加沙来支持他们的流离失所。
And last, Egypt definitely did not want to look like it was collaborating in a black market to charge Palestinians tens of thousands of dollars to save their lives.
最后，埃及绝对不想让自己看起来像是在黑市上合作，向巴勒斯坦人收取数万美元来拯救他们的生命。
By the beginning of this year, it did look like that.
到今年年初，情况确实如此。
By February and March, there were reports that the main company offering travel coordination at the Rafah border was making a million dollars a day off Palestinians.
到二月和三月，有报道称，在拉法边境提供旅行协调服务的主要公司每天从巴勒斯坦人身上赚取一百万美元。
The manic economy was reined in.
狂躁的经济得到了遏制。
New rules.
新规则。
No more hiring brokers in Gaza to help you register to leave.
加沙不再雇用经纪人来帮助您登记离开。
No more paying by phone.
不再需要通过电话付款。
No more free-for-all bribes at the border.
边境不再肆意行贿。
There would only be one company allowed to register people to leave Gaza, an Egyptian company called Hala with close ties to the Egyptian military and security services.
只有一家公司被允许登记人员离开加沙，这家公司是一家名为 Hala 的埃及公司，与埃及军方和安全部门关系密切。
And now, if you wanted to register, you needed to send someone to the Hala offices in Cairo in person.
现在，如果你想注册，你需要派人亲自去开罗的 Hala 办公室。
And not just anyone-- a first-degree relative.
而且不只是任何人——一级亲属。
And you'd need to pay in cash-- $5,000 for an adult, $2,500 for a kid, American dollars only.
而且你需要用现金支付——成人 5,000 美元，儿童 2,500 美元，仅限美元。
It's like a dare.
这就像一个挑战。
How could anyone in Gaza pull this off?
加沙的人怎么能做到这一点呢？
This new system for getting out of Gaza kicked in just as Israel announced its plans for an offensive in Rafah, just as Manal told Yousef she was ready to leave.
就在以色列宣布对拉法发动进攻的计划之际，这一离开加沙的新系统开始启动，而玛纳尔告诉尤瑟夫她已准备好离开。
A new, much more rigid system that made it much, much harder to get out.
一个新的、更加严格的系统使得退出变得非常非常困难。
Yousef couldn't talk about how he raised that much money, in dollars, and got it to the Hala office in Cairo and how he did it fast enough to register to get on the list in order to maybe make it out in time.
尤瑟夫无法谈论他如何筹集那么多美元资金，并将其送到开罗的哈拉办公室，以及他如何足够快地注册进入名单，以便及时完成。
Most Palestinians in Gaza didn't want to talk about any of that either.
加沙的大多数巴勒斯坦人也不想谈论这些。
So I reached a Palestinian outside of Gaza on the West Bank.
所以我到达了加沙地带西岸以外的巴勒斯坦人。
OK, so, first, we set up the GoFundMe page, and that was a whole thing, an ordeal of itself.
好的，首先，我们建立了 GoFundMe 页面，这本身就是一个完整的事情，一个考验。
I knew the system was outrageous, but I didn't know-know until I talked to Bushra.
我知道这个制度令人无法容忍，但直到我与布什拉交谈后我才知道。
Bushra Khalidi lives in the West Bank in Ramallah.
Bushra Khalidi 住在约旦河西岸的拉马拉。
She's Palestinian.
她是巴勒斯坦人。
Her husband's family is from Gaza, and Bushra wanted to help them get out, seven people, $30,000, which she didn't have and had to fundraise.
她丈夫的家人来自加沙，布什拉想帮助他们七个人离开，需要 3 万美元，但她没有，不得不筹集资金。
So I couldn't say in my GoFundMe page that I lived in Palestine because Palestinians are not allowed to receive any funds from GoFundMe.
所以我不能在我的 GoFundMe 页面上说我住在巴勒斯坦，因为巴勒斯坦人不允许从 GoFundMe 接收任何资金。
And they actually emailed me and said, because you're in a risky area, blah, blah, blah, you cannot-- you know.
他们实际上给我发了电子邮件说，因为你处于危险区域，等等，等等，你不能——你知道。
And then I had a co-sponsor with me from the US.
然后我有一位来自美国的共同发起人。
Like, eventually, I found somebody.
就像，最终，我找到了一个人。
I found a-- it's a long story.
我发现了一个——这是一个很长的故事。
Short version-- she needed someone else to help her set up the GoFundMe page.
简短版本 - 她需要其他人帮助她设置 GoFundMe 页面。
And the way she found that person, her brother-in-law is in a band that tours and knew someone in the US who could help them set up the page.
她找到那个人的方式是，她的姐夫在一个巡回演出的乐队中，并且在美国认识一个可以帮助他们建立页面的人。
Pretty quickly, talking to Bushra, I got a picture that this is the kind of person you need on your team if your family has any chance of getting out.
很快，在与布什拉交谈时，我了解到，如果你的家人有机会出去，你的团队就需要这样的人。
Bushra is a lawyer.
布什拉是一名律师。
She speaks perfect English.
她英语说得很好。
She works for a global NGO, Oxfam.
她为全球非政府组织乐施会工作。
She's used to navigating bureaucracies in multiple languages.
她习惯于在多种语言的官僚机构中穿梭。
She has connections in countries all over the world.
她在世界各国都有联系。
To navigate this complex process, you need someone who can make things happen.
为了驾驭这个复杂的过程，您需要一个能够让事情发生的人。
You need a Bushra or a Yousef.
你需要布什拉或尤瑟夫。
Apparently, you also need to know someone who's in a band.
显然，您还需要认识乐队成员。
So that was the first hurdles.
这是第一个障碍。
And then it was a hurdle to write the story.
然后写这个故事就成了一个障碍。
Because every time you wrote the story, it has to be verified by GoFundMe, and then they would allow it or not.
因为每次你写故事的时候，都必须经过GoFundMe的验证，然后他们才会允许或者不允许。
So they weren't allowing me mentioning that I lived in Palestine, so we had to change the story, but we didn't want to lie.
所以他们不允许我提及我住在巴勒斯坦，所以我们必须改变故事，但我们不想撒谎。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
So we had to then change the story, say that I kind of lived between Europe and Palestine and kind of travel for work.
所以我们必须改变这个故事，说我住在欧洲和巴勒斯坦之间，并且是为了工作而旅行。
I do travel a lot.
我经常旅行。
It had to be-- we had to write the story in terms of she was fundraising on behalf of me that lived in Europe, who was going to help my family in Gaza.
我们必须以她代表住在欧洲的我筹款来写这个故事，她将帮助我在加沙的家人。
The GoFundMe worked, but it wasn't enough.
GoFundMe 发挥了作用，但还不够。
They raised $20,000.
他们筹集了 20,000 美元。
They needed $30,000 for the Hala fees.
他们需要 30,000 美元的哈拉费。
Bushra and her husband were already sending money constantly into Gaza, money to pay for $200 bags of flour, for transportation every time the family had to move-- five times.
Bushra 和她的丈夫已经不断向加沙汇款，用于支付 200 美元一袋面粉的费用，以及每次全家不得不搬家时的交通费用——五次。
Bushra knew if the family made it to Cairo, they wouldn't be allowed to work, so they'd need help paying for housing and food there, too.
布什拉知道，如果一家人成功抵达开罗，他们将无法工作，因此他们也需要帮助支付那里的住房和食物费用。
So actually, Bushra realized, they needed $50,000.
Bushra 意识到，实际上他们需要 50,000 美元。
So we took a loan out of 20k and then put of our savings, 20k.
所以我们从 20k 中取出了一笔贷款，然后拿出了 20k 的积蓄。
OK.
好的。
Bushra Khalidi Yeah.
布什拉·卡里迪 是的。
All our life savings.
我们一生的积蓄。
How did you guys make that decision, or was that an obvious choice?
你们是如何做出这个决定的，或者这是一个显而易见的选择？
That also was what delayed the process, is like we're currently-- we bought our house a year ago.
这也是推迟进程的原因，就像我们现在——我们一年前买了房子。
We're finishing it.
我们正在完成它。
So, I mean, it's just been a huge financial strain.
所以，我的意思是，这只是巨大的财务压力。
I talked to people in Gaza who sold the cars they were living in to pay for these fees.
我与加沙的人们交谈过，他们卖掉了自己居住的汽车来支付这些费用。
I heard about families that sold their furniture, took out loans, families who hit up aunts and cousins and extended family across multiple countries until every family member's savings was drained.
我听说有的家庭卖掉了家具，申请了贷款，有的家庭殴打了阿姨和表兄弟姐妹，还有的家庭跨越多个国家，直到每个家庭成员的积蓄都被耗尽。
And once you did that, had the money in hand, it wasn't over.
一旦你这样做了，手里有了钱，事情还没有结束。
The move for us that was really complicated was figuring out a way how to get the money in, because you have to pay cash, in dollars, in Egypt.
对我们来说，真正复杂的举动是想办法如何把钱放进去，因为你必须在埃及支付现金、美元。
And in order for you to-- you can't send the money by bank transfer to an Egyptian account.
为了让您--您无法通过银行转账将钱汇入埃及账户。
It has to be somebody in Egypt that has a USD account and--
必须是在埃及拥有美元账户的人，并且——
Wait, wait, wait, what?
等等，等等，等等，什么？
So you have to have-- you can't transfer money to an account?
所以你必须--你不能将钱转入账户吗？
And you couldn't figure out literally just how to get the cash there?
而且您根本不知道如何将现金带到那里？
How do we get $40,000, 40k in?
我们如何获得 40,000 美元、4 万美元？
Well, the thing is, is that I could have flown out and taken it, but then we found out that it has to be a first-degree relative that registers.
嗯，问题是，我本来可以飞出去拿走它，但后来我们发现它必须是登记的一级亲属。
Do you see what I mean?
你明白我的意思吗？
They have to register the family.
他们必须对家庭进行登记。
And I'm not first-degree.
而且我不是第一学位。
I'm just like the in-law.
我就像公婆一样。
I'm like the daughter-in-law.
我就像儿媳妇一样。
So I couldn't.
所以我不能。
And then my husband, Palestinian men under 40 years old can't enter Egypt unless you have a specific-- you have to have a permit from the Egyptian authorities and secret services.
然后我的丈夫，40 岁以下的巴勒斯坦男子不能进入埃及，除非你有特定的许可证——你必须获得埃及当局和特工部门的许可。
And they do all the security checks.
他们负责所有的安全检查。
So that was also not an option for my husband to go.
所以我丈夫也不能选择去。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Bushra Khalidi So it had to be his sister in Sweden that went out--
Bushra Khalidi 所以出去的一定是他在瑞典的妹妹——
Just to register them?
只是为了注册他们吗？
Bushra Khalidi Yeah, so we flew her out and her daughters and her husband, too, because she has two very small kids.
Bushra Khalidi 是的，所以我们也让她和她的女儿们以及她的丈夫飞出去，因为她有两个非常小的孩子。
So we flew them all out.
所以我们把他们全部飞了出去。
And their situation is not amazing in Sweden.
而他们在瑞典的处境也并不奇怪。
They couldn't afford $2,500 for the plane ticket.
他们付不起 2,500 美元的机票。
So we paid for those, too.
所以我们也支付了这些费用。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
Now I'm talking about-- when I'm counting all of this, I can't believe it.
现在我正在谈论——当我计算这一切时，我简直不敢相信。
Once the sister arrived in Cairo, Bushra then had to figure out how do I get her the cash so she can go in person to register the family at the Hala office.
当姐姐抵达开罗后，布什拉就得想办法如何给她拿到现金，这样她就可以亲自去哈拉办公室办理家庭登记。
Bushra had a friend in Egypt.
布什拉在埃及有一个朋友。
He could receive about $20,000 in his account.
他的账户里可以收到大约20,000美元。
So I was like, OK, I'll transfer $20,000 to him.
所以我想，好吧，我会转 20,000 美元给他。
And then we sent-- and there was a person-- I'm not exactly sure, and again, I'm not asking questions, but he was like, I don't want to say an agent, but he was like a person that was going to Egypt-- a businessman going to Egypt that was taking money for people, dollars to Egypt for people.
然后我们派了——有一个人——我不太确定，再说一次，我不是在问问题，但他就像，我不想说是代理人，但他就像一个要去埃及的人——一个去埃及的商人，为人们带钱，为人们带美元到埃及。
So he carried $15,000 for us.
所以他为我们带来了 15,000 美元。
No way.
决不。
Bushra Khalidi Yeah, basically we paid him $1,500 to take $15,000 with him.
Bushra Khalidi 是的，基本上我们付给他 1,500 美元，然后他带走 15,000 美元。
And just to be, like, the mule.
就像骡子一样。
Just to carry it, basically.
基本上只是为了携带它。
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
Yeah, it was risky.
是的，这是有风险的。
That was a risky move.
这是一个冒险的举动。
And did you get the sense that that person is doing that all the time?
你是否感觉到那个人一直在这样做？
Yeah, but I don't think it was for necessarily evacuating people from Gaza.
是的，但我认为这不一定是为了从加沙撤离人员。
It's just he's a businessman.
只是他是个商人而已。
He has businesses in Cairo.
他在开罗有生意。
So he was able to carry.
所以他可以带。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know what he does, but he's like an entrepreneur.
我不知道他是做什么的，但他就像一个企业家。
I have no details.
我没有详细信息。
[LAUGHS] Bushra Khalidi That, I didn't ask.
[笑] Bushra Khalidi 这个，我没问。
I was like, cool.
我当时想，很酷。
We got somebody.
我们有人了。
My husband didn't really ask.
我丈夫并没有真正问。
He knew the guy.
他认识那个人。
He knew the guy from a guy.
他从一个男人中认识了这个男人。
So he was like, OK, cool.
所以他说，好吧，酷。
He didn't ask questions.
他没有问问题。
OK, so your sister-in-law arrives in Cairo.
好的，你嫂子抵达开罗了。
She goes to meet your friend who's holding $20,000 for you and the businessman who has personally delivered, for quite a high fee, another $15,000.
她去见你的朋友，他为你保管了 20,000 美元，而商人则以相当高的费用亲自交付了另外 15,000 美元。
And all of that, then she collects that, driving around Cairo?
所有这些，然后她在开罗周围开车时收集到的？
Those, like, piles of cash?
那些，比如，成堆的现金？
Yeah, I guess.
是的，我想。
I mean, is it piles of cash?
我的意思是，这是一堆现金吗？
It's like 350 $100 notes.
相当于 350 张 100 美元的纸币。
So it's not--
所以这不是——
That's a lot of cash.
那是很多现金。
I mean, it's not a suitcase, I guess.
我的意思是，我猜这不是一个手提箱。
I guess it is pretty piled-- Chana Joffe-Walt But it's not--
我猜它已经堆得很满了——Chana Joffe-Walt 但事实并非如此——
Yeah, it's not a suitcase.
是的，这不是手提箱。
Chana Joffe-Walt You can't put it in a wallet.
Chana Joffe-Walt 你不能把它放进钱包里。
No, you can't put it in a wallet.
不，你不能把它放在钱包里。
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
I should ask how she carried it.
我应该问她是怎么带着它的。
[LAUGHS] But so they got an apartment right next to the company.
[笑]但是他们在公司旁边找到了一套公寓。
The Hala company.
哈拉公司。
The sister-in-law stood in line, paid the money, and then they waited for the names of Bushra's in-laws to show up on the list.
嫂子排队，付了钱，然后等待布什拉公婆的名字出现在名单上。
Bushra and her family were stuck checking the same strange Telegram channel Yousef was, the one with the screenshots of this life-or-death list.
Bushra 和她的家人一直在查看 Yousef 所在的那个奇怪的 Telegram 频道，也就是那个发布生死名单截图的频道。
The wait was excruciating.
等待的过程令人难以忍受。
Bushra didn't want to think or talk about it.
Bushra不想思考或谈论它。
Her sister-in-law wanted to talk about it all the time.
她嫂子一直想讲这件事。
They were all watching the news and the list.
他们都在看新闻和名单。
On April 14, their names appeared on the list.
4月14日，他们的名字出现在名单上。
The family left the next day.
第二天一家人就离开了。
I mean, definitely, when their names came out on the list, it was like a physical-- there was something physical that changed in me.
我的意思是，当然，当他们的名字出现在名单上时，就像身体上的变化一样——我的身体发生了一些变化。
It just was like-- it's like, OK, they're going to survive.
就好像——好吧，他们会活下来。
They're going to live.
他们要活下去。
Yeah.
是的。
Bushra Khalidi And there's no word for it in English, but maybe you can look it up.
Bushra Khalidi 英语中没有这个词，但也许你可以查一下。
In Arabic, it's called Qaher.
在阿拉伯语中，它被称为 Qaher。
It's like a mix of anger and disgust-- the word.
这个词就像是愤怒和厌恶的混合体。
That's what it means.
这就是它的意思。
It's like a mix of anger, disgust, and despair.
就像愤怒、厌恶和绝望的混合体。
And you felt that-- Bushra Khalidi That's what it is.
你感觉到了—— Bushra Khalidi 就是这样。
--toward what?
——朝向什么？
What made you feel which part?
哪一部分让你有什么感觉？
I mean, listen.
我的意思是，听着。
I had never met my in-laws.
我从未见过我的姻亲。
Never met her in-laws because Israeli restrictions make it very hard to travel between the West Bank and Gaza.
从未见过她的姻亲，因为以色列的限制使得在约旦河西岸和加沙之间旅行非常困难。
Like, how is it that this has to happen for us to meet and for my son to meet his grandparents for the first time, you know?
就像，为什么我们要见面，我的儿子第一次见到他的祖父母，你知道吗？
Like, how?
比如说，怎么样？
Why?
为什么？
Why do we have to go through this?
为什么我们必须经历这个？
What is it going to mean to your family to have spent this money on this, like long-term or--
把这笔钱花在这上面对你的家人来说意味着什么，比如长期的或者——
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
Chana Joffe-Walt Shame?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 羞耻吗？
Why?
为什么？
Because they're ashamed.
因为他们感到羞耻。
Because that's not who we are, you know?
因为那不是我们，你知道吗？
We've been rendered destitute, you know?
我们已经变得一贫如洗了，你知道吗？
They're not destitute people, you know?
他们不是穷人，你知道吗？
They had a beautiful home and beautiful lives.
他们有一个美丽的家和美好的生活。
And to put that on your son, I mean, I don't know.
我的意思是，我不知道把它放在你的儿子身上。
I don't know if it's shame, but it's like guilt maybe.
我不知道这是否是羞耻，但也许就像是内疚。
It's like they're so grateful that they're ashamed to say it.
就好像他们非常感激却羞于说出来一样。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
It's embarrassing that they put that on us.
他们把这个强加给我们，这真是令人尴尬。
And so we don't talk about it.
所以我们不谈论它。
It's not like there's a thank you because even a thank you is not enough for them.
并不是说谢谢，因为即使是谢谢对他们来说也不够。
And so it's better not to say it.
所以最好不要说出来。
Um, no, because I would do it a million times over again.
嗯，不，因为我会再做一百万次。
And they know that.
他们知道这一点。
I just need to know that they're alive and that they're good.
我只需要知道他们还活着并且他们很好。
And now, I mean, the thing is, is that they're in Egypt now, and I'm in Egypt now.
现在，我的意思是，问题是，他们现在在埃及，我现在也在埃及。
And but the road ahead is so hard.
但前面的路是如此艰难。
And coming here and just seeing them, they're not the same people.
来到这里看到他们，他们就不是同一个人了。
They never will be the same people, you know?
他们永远不会是同一个人，你知道吗？
This brings us back to Yousef.
这让我们回到尤瑟夫。
Yousef, who knew this, he knew leaving Gaza meant he would not be the same person.
优素福知道这一点，他知道离开加沙意味着他不再是同一个人。
And still, Yousef was going through all these steps through a system designed to frustrate, deter, and bankrupt him.
尽管如此，优素福还是通过一个旨在挫败、威慑和让他破产的系统来完成所有这些步骤。
Yousef's version of this process, raising an astounding amount of money, getting the cash in dollars physically to the Hala office, Yousef's maneuvers were not the exact same as Bushra's, but they were just as involved and absurd, right up until he was registered and waiting for permission to do something he did not want to do.
优素福版本的这个过程，筹集了惊人的资金，将美元现金实际送到哈拉办公室，优素福的策略与布什拉的不完全相同，但它们同样复杂和荒谬，直到他注册并等待许可去做他不想做的事情。
When he was growing up, Yousef's uncle used to tell him he reminded him of his grandfather.
在他成长的过程中，优素福的叔叔常常告诉他，他让他想起了他的祖父。
He grew up hearing this a lot, the similarities to his grandfather.
他从小就经常听到这样的说法，这与他祖父的相似之处。
And Yousef got it.
尤瑟夫明白了。
His grandfather hustled, made things happen.
他的祖父忙忙碌碌，让事情发生了。
He was resourceful.
他足智多谋。
But Yousef has been thinking about this lately, what it meant to be like his grandfather, what else it meant.
但尤瑟夫最近一直在思考这个问题，像他祖父那样意味着什么，还有什么意义。
His grandfather is the one who got everyone to Jabalia, to the refugee camp in the north of Gaza, when they were all pushed out of their homes in what is now Israel in 1948.
1948 年，他的祖父将大家带到加沙北部的贾巴利亚难民营，当时他们都被赶出了现在的以色列境内的家园。
His grandfather is the one who made sure everyone got set up in the same place next to each other, made sure they survived, had housing, had their needs met.
他的祖父确保每个人都住在同一个地方，彼此相邻，确保他们生存，有住房，满足他们的需求。
He made sure they were safe, and they were together.
他确保他们安全，并且他们在一起。
And they were.
他们确实如此。
Jabalia Camp became a small city.
贾巴利亚营地变成了一座小城市。
People moved to bigger apartments nearby, had kids, but the family stayed safe and right next to each other.
人们搬到附近更大的公寓，有了孩子，但一家人仍然安全，彼此相邻。
75 years later, Yousef was the one who moved his sisters and their families to a tent camp in Rafah so they could all be nearby, safe and together.
75 年后，尤瑟夫把他的姐妹及其家人搬到了拉法的一个帐篷营地，这样他们就可以在附近安全地在一起。
They were there for three months when Yousef heard from a contact in Egypt, a friend with connections at the Hala Company, who told him that his family's names were likely to be listed in the next week.
他们在那里呆了三个月，这时尤瑟夫从埃及的一位联系人、一位在哈拉公司有关系的朋友那里听说，他的家人的名字可能会在下周列出。
He wasn't just failing at keeping the family together.
他不仅仅是未能维持家庭的团结。
He was the one who was going to split them up.
他就是要拆散他们的人。
Yousef, are you packing?
尤瑟夫，你在收拾行李吗？
Yousef Hammash I don't have anything to back.
Yousef Hammash 我没有什么可支持的。
That's the easiest thing about it.
这是最简单的事情。
[LAUGHS] I have two jeans pants, two T-shirts, two jackets, and actually, most of it, I will leave it for my brothers-in-law.
[笑]我有两条牛仔裤、两件T恤、两件夹克，实际上，大部分我都会留给我的姐夫。
I'm just going to take just what I could wear during the first day and just a pajama for the next day.
我只带第一天能穿的衣服和第二天穿的睡衣。
And that's it.
就是这样。
The easiest part is packing.
最简单的部分是包装。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
What's the hardest part?
最难的部分是什么？
Yousef Hammash [SIGHS] It's also packing.
Yousef Hammash [叹气] 也在收拾行李。
[LAUGHS] Tangibly, there is nothing to be packed during the journey, but we are packing our relations with our families now.
[笑] 显然，旅途中没有什么可以打包的，但我们现在正在打包与家人的关系。
I don't know how it's going to be that day when we are just going out.
我不知道我们刚出去的那一天会怎样。
And I don't want to really think about that moment because I don't know how it's going to be.
我不想真正去想那一刻，因为我不知道那会是什么样子。
And, yeah.
而且，是的。
Yeah, it's going to be difficult.
是的，这会很困难。
I don't want to think about it.
我不想去想它。
Let's wait and see.
让我们拭目以待。
Hi, Yousef.
嗨，尤瑟夫。
Yousef Hammash Hello, Chana.
优素福·哈马什 你好，查纳。
Hi.
你好。
How's your day been?
你今天过得怎么样？
Yousef Hammash Yeah, I don't know.
尤瑟夫·哈马什：是的，我不知道。
It was a bit long and [SIGHS] yaani, end up with our name listed by the Egyptians to cross tomorrow to leave to Egypt.
有点长，[叹气] yaani，最后我们的名字被埃及人列出来，明天要穿越前往埃及。
Wow.
哇。
Yousef Hammash And I wasn't expecting that soon, but looking to my sisters.
优素福·哈马什（Yousef Hammash） 我没想到会这么快，而是期待着我的姐妹们。
Today, I received the news when I was with my sisters.
今天，当我和姐妹们在一起时，我收到了这个消息。
And it was really difficult, how to deal with it.
而且真的很困难，如何应对。
You were with your sisters when you found out?
当你发现的时候你和你的姐妹们在一起吗？
And they were list-- 'cause they list the names usually after 10:00 PM in the night.
他们列出了名单 - 因为他们通常在晚上 10:00 之后列出名字。
So we were there, having iftar with Aseel and the rest of my sisters, Heba and Hadil.
于是我们就在那里，与 Aseel 以及我的其他姐妹 Heba 和 Hadil 一起吃开斋饭。
I have a friend who lives in Egypt.
我有一个住在埃及的朋友。
And he have some access with the Hala company, which is the company that we registered through it to cross to Egypt.
而且他对哈拉公司有一定的访问权，这家公司就是我们通过它注册的穿越埃及的公司。
And he told me that my name is not listed.
他告诉我，我的名字没有列出。
It's not going to be listed today, so I don't need to wait for the list.
今天不会上市，所以不用等名单了。
It's going to be listed for tomorrow.
明天就要上市了。
So I decided we were having iftar with my sisters.
所以我决定和我的姐妹们一起吃开斋饭。
I told them that we are leaving the day after.
我告诉他们我们后天就要离开。
And I just wanted to use that day with them.
我只是想和他们一起度过这一天。
We agreed to have iftar together, all of us.
我们同意大家一起吃开斋饭。
And we were planning for tomorrow that even I don't want to go to work.
我们计划明天连我都不想去上班。
I want to spend it with my sisters.
我想和我的姐妹们一起度过。
I take my family there.
我带我的家人去那里。
We spend the entire day there.
我们在那里度过了一整天。
Then we go back to prepare ourself to travel.
然后我们就回去准备旅行了。
And suddenly, when we were there, one of-- it's the wife of one of our colleagues who lives with us.
突然，当我们在那里时，其中一位——是我们一位同事的妻子，与我们住在一起。
She called and she said, your names are listed.
她打电话说，你的名字已列出。
And it was very shocking, and suddenly, everything became a chaos.
而且非常震撼，突然间，一切都变得混乱起来。
Everyone started crying.
每个人都开始哭泣。
And it was a very emotional moment that I didn't want to see.
这是一个非常激动人心的时刻，我不想看到。
My daughter Illya was crying because her aunts are crying, my wife is crying, my mother is crying.
我的女儿伊利亚在哭，因为她的阿姨在哭，我的妻子在哭，我的母亲在哭。
[SIGHS] And then I found myself in this chaotic situation, trying to understand if it's the right option or not, if it's--
[叹气] 然后我发现自己陷入了这种混乱的境地，试图了解这是否是正确的选择，如果是——
You were having doubts?
你当时有疑问吗？
Yousef Hammash Yeah, yeah, of course.
尤瑟夫·哈马什 是的，是的，当然。
I am going for nowhere, leaving behind me everything.
我无处可去，抛下一切。
An entire life.
整个人生。
And this is the second time I'm leaving things behind.
这是我第二次把事情抛在脑后。
I left my house in the north toward the south.
我离开北边的房子，向南走去。
I left my house, my memories, everything in the north.
我离开了我的家、我的记忆、北方的一切。
Now I'm trying to understand or to imagine how my sisters are feeling when they are losing their backup, their support.
现在我试图理解或想象我的姐妹们失去后盾和支持时的感受。
Whenever they want anything, whenever they are facing anything, they know that Yousef is there.
每当他们想要任何东西，每当他们面对任何东西，他们都知道优素福就在那里。
What did they say, Yousef?
他们说什么，尤瑟夫？
What did they say to you?
他们对你说了什么？
Everyone was in a shock, including me.
所有人都震惊了，包括我。
Everyone was crying, and I was looking to my sisters.
每个人都在哭泣，我看着我的姐妹们。
I felt how weak I am to make that decision.
我感到自己是多么无力做出这个决定。
I don't have enough courage to leave everything behind.
我没有足够的勇气把一切抛在脑后。
And this is one of the hardest moments in my life.
这是我一生中最艰难的时刻之一。
Yeah.
是的。
Yousef Hammash Yeah, it is [INAUDIBLE].
Yousef Hammash 是的，它是[听不清]。
When I was looking for my sisters, when they are thinking about losing their entire family, it's not only me.
当我寻找我的姐妹时，当她们考虑失去整个家庭时，不仅仅是我一个人。
It's my wife, my children, their mother.
这是我的妻子，我的孩子，他们的母亲。
I couldn't find the right word.
我找不到合适的词。
What should I say?
我应该说什么？
And the issue is that I was very overwhelmed emotionally.
问题是我在情感上非常不知所措。
And if I said-- and it happened.
如果我说——事情就发生了。
When I start to talk to them, I was trying to show how strong I am.
当我开始与他们交谈时，我试图展示我有多么坚强。
And I was like, it's fine.
我当时想，没关系。
Since a month I informed you to be prepared for this moment.
一个月以来我就告诉你要为这一刻做好准备。
Then here where I lost control of my emotions.
然后我就失去了对自己情绪的控制。
It's usually I'm that tough man who cannot be seen as a weak person.
通常我是一个坚强的人，不能被视为软弱的人。
And I understood how weak I am.
我也明白自己是多么的软弱。
And I don't want to be shown weak in front of them, but it's out of my hand.
我不想在他们面前表现出软弱，但这不是我能控制的。
My sisters, I think they-- I believe they know.
我的姐妹们，我想她们——我相信她们知道。
They know that I will do anything for them and whenever they need anything.
他们知道无论何时他们需要什么，我都会为他们做任何事。
I already prepared everything.
我已经准备好了一切。
And--
还有——
Yousef, you told me over the last months that every time I asked how you feel about leaving, you were sort of like, I can't.
尤瑟夫，过去几个月你告诉我，每次我问你离开的感受如何，你都会说，我不能。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I'll know when it happens.
当它发生时我就会知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I can't think about it.
我无法思考。
Do you feel like you're suddenly thinking about it now?
是不是感觉现在突然就想起来了？
I was postponing thinking about it because I understood how hard it is.
我推迟了考虑它，因为我明白这有多困难。
And I was doing right.
我做得对。
I was doing right today when I received the news and then knowing that I'm leaving tomorrow.
当我收到这个消息时，我今天做得很好，然后知道我明天就要离开。
I never felt the pain inside me like today.
我从来没有像今天这样感受到内心的痛苦。
And I was right.
我是对的。
I was right.
我是对的。
And now it's real.
现在它是真的了。
It's happening.
它正在发生。
And I'm leaving Gaza tomorrow.
我明天就要离开加沙。
It's like losing my identity.
这就像失去了我的身份。
When are you leaving?
你什么时候走？
Yousef Hammash I'm leaving 7:00 AM in the morning.
Yousef Hammash 我将于早上 7:00 出发。
Yeah, I'm leaving.
是的，我要走了。
Chana Joffe-Walt Are you going to sleep?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 你要睡觉吗？
I don't know if I could manage to sleep.
我不知道我是否能睡得着。
Because tomorrow morning, at 7:00 AM, I have to go to meet my sisters again before we leave.
因为明天早上 7:00，在我们离开之前，我必须再次去见我的姐妹们。
And I want to make sure, even if I have one more minute to spend it with them, I'll do it.
我想确保，即使我再多花一分钟时间和他们在一起，我也会这么做。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Chana, I'm going through one of the most difficult-- it's not one of the most.
查纳，我正在经历最困难的事情之一——但这并不是最困难的事情之一。
It's the most difficult decision I've made in my entire life.
这是我一生中做出的最困难的决定。
I know.
我知道。
Yousef Hammash And now I'm just leaving everything.
优素福·哈马什 现在我要离开一切了。
Now I am leaving.
现在我要走了。
And they will be refugee once again.
他们将再次成为难民。
Born as a refugee, raised as a refugee, and now starting a new life as a refugee.
作为难民出生，作为难民长大，现在开始作为难民的新生活。
Yousef, I want to let you go have time with your family and also hopefully sleep some before you have to make that trip tomorrow.
尤瑟夫，我想让你和家人共度时光，并希望在你明天出发之前睡一会儿。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Thank you, Chana.
谢谢你，查娜。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
Yeah.
是的。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
And I think our next call will be from a different place.
我认为我们的下一次通话将来自不同的地方。
Yeah.
是的。
Yousef Hammash Hopefully it will go OK.
优素福·哈马什希望一切顺利。
All right.
好的。
Bye, Yousef.
再见，尤瑟夫。
Yousef Hammash Bye-bye.
优素福·哈马什再见。
Bye-bye.
再见。
Bye.
再见。
Yousef left through the Rafah crossing the next day.
第二天，优素福通过拉法过境点离开。
That day, his family saw the world outside Gaza for the first time.
那天，他的家人第一次看到了加沙以外的世界。
The kids were amazed by the electricity in Cairo and the trees.
孩子们对开罗的电力和树木感到惊讶。
Trees in Gaza have been cut down now to use for fire.
加沙的树木现在已被砍伐用于生火。
When Illya and Ahmed started to tell their cousins in Gaza about the watermelon they were eating and the playground they played on, Yousef had to tell them to keep that kind of thing to themselves from now on.
当伊利亚和艾哈迈德开始向他们在加沙的表兄弟讲述他们正在吃的西瓜和他们在操场上玩耍的事情时，尤瑟夫不得不告诉他们从现在开始不要把这些事情留给自己。
Manal took the children to the market and bought chocolate.
玛纳尔带着孩子们去市场买了巧克力。
Yousef sat at the computer, continuing to try to make plans for his sisters, trying to figure out where were the Israeli tanks now, what might their approach into Rafah be, what was the intensity of the bombing that day, and what did it mean.
尤瑟夫坐在电脑前，继续为他的姐妹们制定计划，试图弄清楚以色列坦克现在在哪里，他们可能会以什么方式进入拉法，那天轰炸的强度是多少，这意味着什么。
Were the NGOs leaving Rafah yet?
非政府组织离开拉法了吗？
Were other people leaving?
其他人离开了吗？
Was it time for his sisters to move somewhere else in Gaza?
他的姐妹们是时候搬到加沙的其他地方了吗？
Then, on May 6, the Israeli military sent tanks into Rafah.
随后，5月6日，以色列军方向拉法派遣坦克。
The invasion had finally started.
入侵终于开始了。
That same day, there was news that Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire.
同一天，有消息称哈马斯同意停火。
It was very confusing, but for a couple hours, it seemed like maybe there was going to be a ceasefire.
这非常令人困惑，但在几个小时内，似乎可能会停火。
I was very, very excited and hyped.
我非常非常兴奋和兴奋。
And it was like, what to do?
就像，该怎么办？
It's like, OK.
就像，好吧。
Yaani, start to think about what next, what I'm going to do with the family.
亚尼，开始考虑下一步，我要和家人做什么。
It's like, ah, I should go back to Gaza.
就像，啊，我应该回到加沙。
And then I start even to look at what is the process to go back to Gaza as soon as I can.
然后我什至开始考虑尽快返回加沙的流程是什么。
And--
还有——
What?
什么？
Really?
真的吗？
Yousef Hammash It might take one, two weeks.
尤瑟夫·哈马什 可能需要一两周的时间。
Yeah.
是的。
I'm useless here.
我在这里毫无用处。
What am I doing here?
我在这里做什么？
Watching the news?
看新闻吗？
Writing reports?
写报告？
I want to be there.
我想去那里。
The only option for me is to go back to Gaza.
我唯一的选择就是返回加沙。
And even with my sisters, I can just drop them in the car, and we keep running in Gaza from a place to the other.
即使和我的姐妹们在一起，我也可以把她们放在车里，然后我们就继续在加沙从一个地方跑到另一个地方。
I don't mind it.
我不介意。
Yousef was suddenly back to the person I remembered talking to for every other move before this last one-- energized, frantic.
尤瑟夫突然变回了我记得在这最后一个动作之前与我交谈过的那个人——精力充沛、疯狂。
I start to think rationally about what I'm going to happen, what I'm going to do.
我开始理性地思考我将要发生什么，我要做什么。
And the plan that I'm having now is to figure out a way how to come back.
我现在的计划就是想办法回来。
But that day, there was no ceasefire.
但那天，并没有停火。
And the next day, the Israeli military seized the Rafah crossing into Egypt and closed the border.
第二天，以色列军队占领了进入埃及的拉法口岸并关闭了边境。
There was no way back.
没有回头路了。
Yousef would be in one world.
优素福将身处同一个世界。
His sisters would be back home in another.
他的姐妹们将乘另一趟车回家。
Chana Joffe-Walt is one of the producers of our show.
查纳·乔夫·沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 是我们节目的制片人之一。
Chana's story about Yousef was edited by Laura Starecheski and Nancy Updike.
查纳关于尤瑟夫的故事由劳拉·斯塔莱切斯基 (Laura Starecheski) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 编辑。
Our episode today was produced by Aviva DeKornfeld.
我们今天的节目由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作。
The people who put together today's episode include Jendayi Bonds, Zoe Chace, Michael Comite, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Safiyah Riddle, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天这一集的制作人包括 Jendayi Bonds、Zoe Chace、Michael Comite、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Safiyah Riddle、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Reporting, research, and Arabic translation from Hany Hawasly.
Hany Hawasly 的报告、研究和阿拉伯语翻译。
Arabic interpreting from Emna Zghal and Sawsan Abdelatif.
Emna Zghal 和 Sawsan Abdelatif 提供阿拉伯语口译。
Arabic voiceover by Leem Lubany.
由 Leem Lubany 配音的阿拉伯语配音。
Additional reporting by Fatma and by Dana Ballout.
Fatma 和 Dana Ballout 的补充报道。
Special thanks to all the reporters at Mada Masr and the Organized Crime, Corruption, and Reporting Project.
特别感谢 Mada Masr 和有组织犯罪、腐败和举报项目的所有记者。
Thanks also to Shaina Low, Mona Chalabi, Miriam Marmur, Tara Abboud, Adam Bakri, and Rania Mustafa.
还要感谢 Shaina Low、Mona Chalabi、Miriam Marmur、Tara Abboud、Adam Bakri 和 Rania Mustafa。
Casting help from Sabrina Hyman.
萨布丽娜·海曼 (Sabrina Hyman) 为选角提供帮助。
Our website, if you're going on a long drive, going on a vacation, looking for something to listen to, over 800 episodes of our program streaming for absolutely free.
如果您要长途驾驶、去度假、想听听什么，我们的网站上有超过 800 集的节目，完全免费。
ThisAmericanLife.org.
ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's cofounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He keeps getting pulled into these spats on X, especially with this one guy.
他总是被卷入 X 上的争吵，尤其是和这个人。
Torey couldn't remember his name, Elon something.
托雷不记得他的名字了，埃隆之类的。
I don't know what he does, but he's, like, an entrepreneur.
我不知道他做什么，但他就像一个企业家。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。