828: Minor Crimes Division - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #828 | April 5, 2024 828: Minor Crimes Division Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 828 集 | 2024 年 4 月 5 日 828：轻罪部门 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Ladies and gentlemen, let's be honest about something.
序言： 序言 Ira Glass 女士们先生们，让我们诚实地说一件事。
Most of us, we see wrongdoing out in the world, somebody breaking the law out in the open flagrantly, most of us do nothing.
我们大多数人都看到世界上有不法行为，有人公然违法，但我们大多数人却袖手旁观。
No matter how many movies we've seen with the big lesson is that it only takes one plucky, courageous person to make a stand, we've got stuff to do.
无论我们看过多少部电影，都得到一个重要的教训：只需要一个勇敢、勇敢的人就能站出来，我们还有事情要做。
People are expecting us.
人们正在期待我们。
We don't go to the trouble, even if it would be so easy, if the crime that we're witnessing is minor and non-violent and sort of outrageous.
如果我们目睹的犯罪行为是轻微的、非暴力的、有点令人发指的，我们就不会去惹麻烦，即使这很容易。
So, here's a good one.
所以，这是一个很好的。
I'm going to get off the bike for this one.
我要为了这个而下车。
Well, please meet Gersh Kuntzman, a guy in his 50s, gray beard, quick with a friendly smile.
好吧，请认识一下格什·昆茨曼 (Gersh Kuntzman)，他是一位 50 多岁的小伙子，留着灰白胡子，动作敏捷，脸上挂着友好的微笑。
We're riding bikes around Lower Manhattan, looking for illegal license plates.
我们在曼哈顿下城骑自行车，寻找非法车牌。
What mostly happens is, I'll be biking along, and when you've looked at literally thousands of plates, you can see right out of the corner of your eye if something's wrong.
最常见的情况是，我会骑自行车，当你查看数千个车牌时，你可以用眼角的余光看到是否有问题。
Often, even just a fake plate will have a different glint in the sun.
通常，即使只是假盘子，在阳光下也会呈现出不同的光泽。
In this guy's case, I could see it's a covered plate.
在这个人的例子中，我可以看到它是一个有盖的盘子。
A covered plate meaning it's in a little frame with some sort of plastic over the plate.
有盖板意味着它位于一个小框架中，板上有某种塑料。
Now, plate covers are illegal in New York.
现在，车牌盖在纽约是非法的。
This one's especially egregious because I don't know if you noticed-- and I'll just paint the word picture for your radio listeners-- it's a shaded one.
这个特别令人震惊，因为我不知道你是否注意到——我只是为你的广播听众画出这个词的图片——它是一个阴影的。
Shaded with some special stuff so if you're in the car directly behind this car, it looks normal.
用一些特殊的东西遮蔽，所以如果你在这辆车后面的车里，它看起来很正常。
But if you look down on the plate from above, the way traffic cameras do, it's black, unreadable.
但如果你从上面俯视车牌，就像交通摄像头那样，它是黑色的，无法辨认。
So those traffic cameras that catch you when you speed or run a red light, they do not deliver this person to justice with a ticket, or tolls, the cameras that read your plate and charge you $16 when you cross a bridge or tunnel into New York.
因此，当你超速或闯红灯时，那些交通摄像头会抓到你，但它们不会开罚单或通行费将这个人绳之以法，当你过桥或隧道进入纽约时，摄像头会读取你的车牌并向你收取 16 美元的费用。
That doesn't work on this car.
这在这辆车上不起作用。
This person drives through for free every time.
这个人每次都是免费开车过去的。
Taxpayers lose an estimated $194 million a year in lost fines and tolls because of unreadable plates.
由于车牌不可读，纳税人每年因罚款和通行费损失估计达 1.94 亿美元。
And most of the people Gersh catches doing this, evading the law this way, are cops.
格什抓到的大多数以这种方式逃避法律的人都是警察。
And once you start seeing it, you can't stop seeing it.
一旦你开始看到它，你就无法停止看到它。
The majority have been people in law enforcement-- court officers, firefighters, cops, DAs, federal officials.
其中大多数是执法人员——法院官员、消防员、警察、地方检察官、联邦官员。
And you know that they're police officers because you see stuff on their dashboard, stuff like this.
你知道他们是警察，因为你在他们的仪表板上看到了一些东西，比如这样的东西。
Yeah, placards, a lot of placards.
是的，标语牌，很多标语牌。
Hotspots are near precincts, near firehouses, and definitely near courthouses.
热点地区靠近辖区、靠近消防站，而且肯定靠近法院。
We're actually next to a courthouse in a detention center on a short block at Baxter and Bayard.
实际上，我们就在巴克斯特和贝亚德附近一个拘留中心的法院大楼旁边。
And this car that Gersh has spotted, a gray Audi, is one of four that we see with obscured plates.
格什发现的这辆灰色奥迪汽车是我们看到的四辆带有模糊车牌的汽车之一。
You're looking on this front dashboard.
你正在看这个前仪表板。
What's it say there?
那里说什么？
Well, so this is actually the Manhattan Detention Complex authorized parking.
嗯，这实际上是曼哈顿拘留中心的授权停车场。
This is a Department of Corrections employee placard.
这是惩教署员工的标语牌。
But if you notice, the plate was from Jersey.
但如果你注意到的话，这个车牌来自泽西岛。
If the owner of the gray Audi is an employee of the New York City Department of Corrections, they're supposed to live in New York.
如果灰色奥迪车的车主是纽约市惩教署的雇员，那么他们应该住在纽约。
It's forbidden for them to live in Jersey.
他们被禁止住在泽西岛。
And so they seem to be evading traffic cameras.
所以他们似乎在躲避交通摄像头。
Maybe they're living illegally out of state.
也许他们在州外非法居住。
And they've also got darkly tinted windows, which are illegal in New York, which means this is exactly the kind of scofflaw that Gersh has appointed himself to take action against.
他们还安装了深色窗户，这在纽约是非法的，这意味着这正是格什指定自己要采取行动的违法行为。
That's where Gersh is different from you and me.
这就是格什与你我不同的地方。
It's just-- what it is, is it just rankles me.
这只是——这是什么，这只是让我恼火吗？
It's just like-- it's hiding in plain sight.
它就像——它隐藏在众目睽睽之下。
He looks again at the placard under the car's windshield.
他再次看了看汽车挡风玻璃下的标语牌。
I mean, this guy's a real dick.
我是说，这家伙真是个混蛋。
You can't see.
你看不到。
He's covered up when the placard expires.
当标语牌过期时，他就被掩盖了。
My guess is, this is an expired placard anyway.
我的猜测是，无论如何，这是一张过期的标语牌。
And he may not even work for the city of New York anymore, but he's decided he wants to park for free in an illegal parking zone.
他甚至可能不再为纽约市工作，但他决定在非法停车区免费停车。
Now, what I will often do in these situations is, I'll remove the plate cover and stick it on the dash.
现在，在这些情况下我经常做的是，我会取下板盖并将其粘在仪表板上。
I don't steal anything, but I do want the guy to know he's breaking the law, and a guy who works for corrections certainly should know what happens to people who break the law.
我不偷任何东西，但我确实想让那个人知道他正在违法，而一个从事惩教工作的人当然应该知道违法者会发生什么。
And I have to look at it to see, can I even get it off?
我必须亲眼看看，我能把它取下来吗？
Yeah, I could get-- oh, no, he's got a special screw on this one.
是的，我可以——哦，不，他在这上面有一个特殊的螺丝。
The four screws on the plate need an Allen wrench.
板上的四个螺丝需要内六角扳手。
I'm going to see if my Allen wrench will fit this one.
我要看看我的内六角扳手是否适合这个。
If it will, I'll take it off, and we'll have some fun.
如果可以的话，我会把它脱下来，我们会玩得很开心。
OK, so you're pulling an Allen wrench out of your wallet.
好吧，你从钱包里拿出一把内六角扳手。
Well, I always have an Allen wrench in my wallet.
嗯，我的钱包里总是有一把内六角扳手。
You don't have an Allen wrench in your wallet?
您钱包里没有内六角扳手吗？
I don't have the right size Allen wrench.
我没有合适尺寸的内六角扳手。
Let me check my bag.
让我检查一下我的包。
I travel with a set of tools.
我带着一套工具旅行。
He looks, but it turns out he doesn't have the right tool, so he leaves the license cover on the car.
他看了看，但发现他没有合适的工具，所以他把牌照盖留在了车上。
That's rare for Gersh, to not be able to fix the situation.
对于格什来说，无法解决问题的情况很少见。
Most times, what he finds is, drivers have painted over a letter or a number on the plate or bent the plate so it's unreadable.
他发现，大多数情况下，司机会在车牌上涂上字母或数字，或者将车牌弯曲，使其难以辨认。
Or they've crammed leaves in the license plate holder.
或者他们把树叶塞进车牌架里。
There are actually fake leaves with magnets you can buy online for this purpose.
实际上，您可以在网上购买带有磁铁的假叶子用于此目的。
Gersh removes the leaves, unbends the plates, repaints the letters and numbers with a paint marker, so in the end, the plate is perfectly legible again.
格什去掉叶子，伸直盘子，用油漆笔重新涂上字母和数字，所以最后，盘子又完全清晰了。
He also shoots a video.
他还拍摄了一段视频。
Gersh always shoots a gleeful little video to post online.
格什总是拍摄一段快乐的小视频并发布到网上。
He pulls out his phone, selfie style, and hits record.
他拿出手机，以自拍的方式按下录音键。
Well, hey, everybody.
嗯，嘿，大家。
It's Gersh Kuntzman.
我是格什·昆兹曼。
It's Good Friday, and I want to say it's a great Friday.
今天是耶稣受难日，我想说这是一个美好的星期五。
Look at this.
看看这个。
I've got a corrections officer with a New Jersey car.
我有一名狱警，开着一辆新泽西州的汽车。
It's a pretty fancy car with illegal tinted windows.
这是一辆非常漂亮的汽车，带有非法的有色车窗。
And look at this.
看看这个。
On the back of the car, he's got this weird, shadowy kind of plate cover, which doesn't--
在车的后面，他有一个奇怪的、阴暗的车牌盖，这并不——
He shows the viewers the plate cover and how it hides the plate from the cameras.
他向观众展示了印版盖以及它如何隐藏印版以使其不被摄像机看到。
He's done about 250 of these videos.
他制作了大约 250 个这样的视频。
Gersh's friends have tried to convince him to stop, scared some driver is going to freak out on him and really hurt him, so lately, he's agreed not to do this alone, though, sometimes, he says, he can't stop himself.
格什的朋友们试图说服他停下来，担心一些司机会对他发脾气并伤害他，所以最近，他同意不单独这样做，尽管有时，他说，他无法阻止自己。
The way Gersh got into this, he's a journalist who writes about these sorts of issues.
格什进入这个行业的方式是，他是一名撰写此类问题的记者。
He runs a traffic and transit news site called Streetsblog.
他经营着一个名为 Streetsblog 的交通和交通新闻网站。
He says that when speed enforcement cameras went on 24/7 in New York-- this was back in August 2022-- and lots of people back then started defacing their plates to avoid the cameras.
他说，当纽约超速执法摄像头 24/7 开启时（那是 2022 年 8 月），当时很多人开始涂污车牌以避免摄像头。
He didn't get involved in the issue himself until a friend of his, a guy named Adam White, a personal injuries lawyer and a safe streets activist, decided to take action.
他自己并没有介入这个问题，直到他的一个朋友亚当·怀特（Adam White）决定采取行动，他是一名人身伤害律师和安全街道活动人士。
Adam saw an SUV whose plate was obscured by a piece of plastic.
亚当看到一辆 SUV，其车牌被一块塑料遮住了。
So he moved the piece of plastic.
于是他移动了那块塑料。
Unfortunately, for him, he didn't look in the car.
可惜的是，对于他来说，他并没有往车里看。
The guy was sitting right there.
那家伙就坐在那儿。
The guy was also a cop.
这家伙也是一名警察。
To be precise, the guy was not a real NYPD cop.
准确地说，这家伙并不是真正的纽约警察局警察。
He was in a local neighborhood patrol.
他当时是当地社区巡逻队的成员。
So he called the cops, and the cops arrested Adam and charged him with criminal mischief.
于是他报了警，警察逮捕了亚当，并指控他犯有刑事恶作剧罪。
Now, that's the most hysterical part of it because criminal mischief is generally like a graffiti charge.
现在，这是最歇斯底里的部分，因为刑事恶作剧通常就像涂鸦指控。
Like, if you damage someone's property, you get charged with criminal mischief.
例如，如果您损坏某人的财产，您就会被指控犯有刑事恶作剧罪。
In this case, it's a weird charge because he didn't actually damage anything-- he actually undamaged or repaired the damage the other guy did by covering his plate.
在这种情况下，这是一个奇怪的指控，因为他实际上没有损坏任何东西——他实际上没有损坏或修复了另一个人通过覆盖他的盘子造成的损坏。
So, anyway, he was arrested, but it was dismissed.
所以，无论如何，他被捕了，但又被驳回了。
But at the same time, once he got arrested by a cop for undefacing a cop's plate, it kind of threw the whole irony ball in the air, and I felt like I should just juggle it.
但与此同时，一旦他因未损坏警察的车牌而被警察逮捕，这就有点把整个讽刺球抛到了空中，我觉得我应该把它处理好。
["CRIMINAL MISCHIEF (FOR ADAM WHITE)" BY JIMMY AND THE JAYWALKERS]
[“犯罪恶作剧（献给亚当·怀特）”，作者：《吉米和乱穿马路的人》]
The first spin of the irony ball for Gersh was a kind of Dylanesque protest song that he wrote for his friend Adam.
格什的第一轮讽刺球是他为朋友亚当写的一首迪伦式抗议歌曲。
(SUBJECT) JIMMY AND THE JAYWALKERS: (SINGING) The cops call it criminal mischief
（主题）吉米和乱穿马路的人：（唱歌）警察称之为刑事恶作剧
Then, maybe two days after Adam was arrested, Gersh started unvandalizing plates himself.
然后，大约在亚当被捕两天后，格什开始亲自破坏盘子。
Something clicked in me, saying, wait a minute, I should try to get arrested as a newspaper reporter, as a journalist, which would be awesome getting arrested, or even better yet, like getting punched out by somebody on camera.
我突然灵光一闪，说，等一下，我应该尝试以一名报社记者的身份被捕，作为一名记者，被捕真是太棒了，甚至更好，就像在镜头前被某人一拳打倒一样。
Like, this is the height of my career.
就像，这是我职业生涯的巅峰。
I'm not going to win a Pulitzer, but getting punched out by a cop would be awesome.
我不会赢得普利策奖，但被警察打倒就太棒了。
That hasn't happened, not even close, though Gersh has seen some other responses by law enforcement to his videos.
尽管格什看到执法部门对他的视频做出了一些其他反应，但这种情况并没有发生，甚至还没有发生。
When he shoots one, he likes to send it to the agency that employs that particular car owner.
当他拍摄一辆时，他喜欢将其发送给雇用该特定车主的机构。
So videos about scofflaw cops go to the NYPD, firefighters to the fire department, and so on.
因此，有关违法警察的视频会发送到纽约警察局，有关消防员的视频会发送到消防部门，等等。
And that's gotten occasional results.
这偶尔会产生结果。
A former cop who was working with the DA's office resigned, and a guy that Gersh caught five times hiding his license plate with leaves resigned from the Department of Citywide Administrative Services.
一名在地方检察官办公室工作的前警察辞职了，格什抓到的一个用树叶隐藏车牌五次的人也从全市行政服务部辞职。
Now, in fairness, I will say, I think the NYPD did something because about six months ago, I started noticing far fewer police officers were defacing or covering their plate.
现在，公平地说，我会说，我认为纽约警察局做了一些事情，因为大约六个月前，我开始注意到涂污或遮盖他们的盘子的警察少得多。
There have been less police officers involved in these kind of shenanigans.
参与此类恶作剧的警察越来越少。
I still notice court officers, federal officials, and firefighters.
我仍然注意到法院官员、联邦官员和消防员。
So and then I asked the NYPD about that, and they won't even take credit for when they do something right.
然后我向纽约警察局询问了此事，他们甚至不会因为他们做了正确的事情而获得赞扬。
They're a very opaque agency, which is very frustrating.
他们是一个非常不透明的机构，这非常令人沮丧。
There are a handful of other people in New York who do this kind of license plate street justice, but Gersh is the most visible by far because of his videos.
纽约还有其他一些人在街头进行这种车牌正义，但格什因为他的视频而成为迄今为止最引人注目的人。
He's gotten the word out.
他已经把话说出来了。
At this point, Gersh's exploits have been written up in The New Yorker and The New York Times.
至此，格什的事迹已被《纽约客》和《纽约时报》报道。
He's been on TV.
他上过电视。
So, it's weird, in some ways.
所以，从某些方面来说，这很奇怪。
Like I've been a reporter for 30 something years in this city, and this is ultimately the most successful thing I've done in terms of bringing light to something that is actually a real problem.
就像我在这个城市当了 30 多年的记者一样，这最终是我所做的最成功的事情，为一些真正的问题带来了光明。
Traffic enforcement agents are now writing more tickets for it.
交通执法人员现在正在为此开出更多罚单。
That said, the wrong that Gersh is trying to correct is so small in the grand scheme of things.
也就是说，格什试图纠正的错误在宏伟的计划中是如此之小。
Why is he the person who ended up leading the crusade for unobstructed license plates?
为什么他最终会成为车牌畅通运动的领导者？
He told me he's not this way with other petty crimes.
他告诉我他对其他轻微犯罪不是这样的。
He sees somebody jumping a turnstile, he doesn't care.
他看到有人跳过十字转门，他不在乎。
But this got under his skin.
但这让他很恼火。
A license plate seems like such basic accountability to him.
对他来说，车牌似乎就是基本的责任。
But also--
但也——
A bit of a showman.
有点戏精的意思。
I'm a bit of a showman, I'll admit that.
我承认，我有点爱作秀。
Yes, I am a ham.
是的，我是火腿。
I am a performer.
我是一名表演者。
But why can't a journalist have a little fun?
但为什么记者就不能找点乐子呢？
That's actually one of my favorite things about Gersh's videos.
这实际上是格什视频中我最喜欢的事情之一。
He looks like he's having so much fun.
他看上去玩得很开心。
You know, New York life, it doesn't have a lot of joy in it.
你知道，纽约的生活并没有太多乐趣。
It really doesn't.
确实没有。
Like, it's really kind of drudgery most of the time.
就像，大多数时候这确实是一件苦差事。
It's a great city, whatever, but it's drudgery.
无论如何，这是一座伟大的城市，但这很苦差事。
And those 20 seconds a day when I can do one of those videos, I get joyful.
当我每天花 20 秒制作其中一个视频时，我会感到很高兴。
You see me on camera, and I'm smiling.
你在镜头前看到我，我在微笑。
And I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
It's just like my inner soul is just singing.
就像我内心的灵魂在唱歌一样。
Well, today on our program, minor crimes and the people who appoint themselves to stop those minor crimes.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，轻微犯罪以及任命自己制止这些轻微犯罪的人。
I once read this great crime writer who said that what's interesting about a murder case is that a murder reveals so much about all the people near the crime.
我曾经读过一位伟大的犯罪作家，他说谋杀案的有趣之处在于，谋杀案揭示了犯罪现场附近所有人的很多信息。
We see who they really are.
我们看到他们到底是谁。
Today on our show, we demonstrate that this is not just true for a cold-blooded crime in the first degree, it's true for the tiniest human infractions, like kids stealing candy, or a man who twice violates the lowest level municipal offense that you can think of.
今天在我们的节目中，我们证明这不仅适用于一级冷血犯罪，也适用于最微小的人类违法行为，例如孩子偷糖果，或者一个人两次违反你能想到的最低级别的市政犯罪。
We see so much about who they are.
我们对他们是谁有很多了解。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Harriot versus Harriot." OK, so let's kick things off today with an entire system of justice set up to adjudicate the most minor sorts of crimes and misdemeanors.
第一幕，“哈里特与哈里特”。好吧，让我们从今天开始，建立一个完整的司法系统来裁决最轻微的犯罪和轻罪。
When Michael Harriot was a kid, growing up in South Carolina in the '80s, his mom set this up, a kind of courtroom in the house to try to teach her kids all kinds of life lessons.
八十年代，迈克尔·哈里奥特 (Michael Harriot) 在南卡罗来纳州长大，小时候，他的妈妈在家里设立了这个法庭，试图向她的孩子们传授各种人生课程。
They called it Harriot Court, and when one of the kids did something wrong, the case would be heard, a judgment would be handed down.
他们称之为哈里特法庭，当其中一个孩子做错事时，就会审理案件，做出判决。
This ran for many, many years with all kinds of cases.
这种情况持续了很多年，涉及各种案件。
And Michael says that he and his siblings all credit Harriot Court with making them the people they are today, though, when I went to talk to them about it recently, he started to rethink that.
迈克尔说，他和他的兄弟姐妹都相信哈里特考特让他们成为了今天的样子，不过，当我最近和他们谈论这件事时，他开始重新思考这一点。
Harriot Court existed for a reason.
哈里特法院的存在是有原因的。
We were bad.
我们很糟糕。
There were four of us, me and three sisters.
我们有四个人，我和三个姐妹。
Sean was the oldest.
肖恩是最年长的。
So growing up, I would describe myself as-- I was a snitch.
所以在成长过程中，我会把自己描述为——我是一个告密者。
I'm just going to say it, the tattle tale.
我只想说一句，流言蜚语。
I would say, back then, I was the bossiest 'cause I was the one that was always in charge, and I could spank everybody.
我想说，那时候，我是最专横的，因为我总是负责的，我可以打每个人的屁股。
I was the middle child, the nerd and the know-it-all, the sneakiest of the bunch.
我是排行老二、书呆子、无所不知、最狡猾的一个。
Then there were the two youngest girls, Comelita and Robin.
然后是两个最小的女孩，科梅丽塔和罗宾。
Comelita and Robin were like-- they was just what you call the wild childs.
科米利塔和罗宾就像——他们就是你们所说的野孩子。
It was just whatever with them.
他们就是随心所欲。
If it could be done, they did it.
如果能做到的话，他们就做到了。
They're gonna try it.
他们会尝试一下。
They were born months apart, and Robin passed away some years ago.
他们出生相隔几个月，罗宾几年前去世了。
But no one ever really thought of Comelita and Robin as individuals.
但没有人真正将科米利塔和罗宾视为独立的个体。
They were one interconnected unit, like Tom and Jerry, Bonnie and Clyde, or Earth, Wind, and Fire.
他们是一个相互关联的整体，就像汤姆和杰瑞、邦妮和克莱德，或者土、风和火一样。
Here's Comelita.
这是科米利塔。
They used to call us the devil and Daniel Webster because whatever I came up with, she would follow me, or whatever she came up with, I'm going with you, girl.
他们过去称我们为魔鬼和丹尼尔·韦伯斯特，因为无论我想出什么，她都会跟着我，或者无论她想出什么，我都会和你一起去，女孩。
We're doing it together.
我们一起做。
We went to school together.
我们一起去学校。
We wore the same clothes.
我们穿着同样的衣服。
We graduated the same year.
我们同年毕业。
So she had my back.
所以她支持我。
And then there was my mom.
然后是我妈妈。
My mom was not one of those "because I said so" kind of moms.
我妈妈不是那种“因为我这么说”的妈妈。
She wanted us to know that we would be heard, and that logic and reason should govern the world and our household, so she created Harriot Court as a solution to our shenanigans.
她想让我们知道我们会被倾听，逻辑和理性应该统治世界和我们的家庭，所以她创建了哈里奥特法院作为我们恶作剧的解决方案。
My mom was two people at once.
我的妈妈同时是两个人。
She was part of a fundamentalist holiness religion, and she was this pro-Black, Black Panther-ish activist, who was almost obsessively adamant about our education.
她是原教旨主义神圣宗教的一部分，她是一位亲黑人、黑豹式的活动家，对我们的教育几乎是痴迷地坚持。
She didn't really trust white people with her kids, so for a while, we were homeschooled.
她并不真正信任白人和她的孩子，所以有一段时间，我们在家接受教育。
As a result, so much of what we learned came from TV, including Harriot Court proceedings.
因此，我们学到的很多东西都来自电视，包括哈里奥特法庭的诉讼程序。
We hired each other as attorneys and used phrases like, "ladies and gentlemen of the jury," and "I beseech thee." We beseeched each other a lot.
我们互相聘请对方为律师，并使用诸如“陪审团的女士们、先生们”和“我恳求你”之类的短语。我们互相恳求了很多。
One of the earliest cases was Comelita and Robin versus All This Candy.
最早的案例之一是科梅利塔和罗宾诉诸糖果案。
As a rule, we were not allowed to have candy growing up, except for once a week, usually on Fridays.
一般来说，我们在成长过程中不被允许吃糖果，除了每周一次，通常是在周五。
That was tough for my sister Comelita, who was obsessed with candy.
这对于我沉迷于糖果的妹妹科梅利塔来说很困难。
We used to get the Hubba Bubba because it used to be strawberry or banana, and it was five pieces.
我们以前买 Hubba Bubba 因为它以前是草莓或香蕉的，而且是五块。
So we got a pack of Lifesavers and either Chicklets or Hubba Bubba Bubble Gum.
所以我们得到了一包救生员和小鸡或 Hubba Bubba 泡泡糖。
I don't love candy like y'all love candy.
我不像你们都喜欢糖果那样喜欢糖果。
Me and Robin loved candy.
我和罗宾喜欢糖果。
We love candy.
我们喜欢糖果。
Well, me and Robin stole the candy from the corner store.
好吧，我和罗宾从街角商店偷了糖果。
I-- So me and Sean thought y'all found some money and bought that candy.
我——所以我和肖恩以为你们都找到了一些钱并买了糖果。
No, we stole the candy.
不，我们偷了糖果。
We stole the candy, but we kept stealing it and stealing it.
我们偷了糖果，但我们一直在偷，一直在偷。
It was so much candy.
糖果太多了。
It was like Halloween candy.
这就像万圣节糖果。
I'm talking about bags you would get and take from your kids at Halloween.
我说的是万圣节时你会从孩子那里得到和拿走的包。
That's how much candy it was.
那是多少糖果。
But there was no place for anybody to hide it, so we hid it under the mattress.
但没有地方可以藏它，所以我们把它藏在床垫下面。
And me and Robin kept saying, just put it in the mattress.
我和罗宾一直说，把它放在床垫上就行了。
They ain't gonna find it.
他们不会找到它。
Just put it in the mattress.
只需将其放在床垫上即可。
So we put it in the mattress.
所以我们把它放在床垫上。
And then one day, Mama said, well, we're gonna clean from under the mattress.
然后有一天，妈妈说，好吧，我们要清理床垫下面的东西。
And she flipped the mattress, and the candy was under the mattress.
她翻转了床垫，糖果就在床垫下面。
So we had to go to court and tell where we got the candy from, why we had so much-- because it was a lot, like two Piggly Wiggly bags full.
所以我们必须去法庭告诉我们这些糖果是从哪里来的，为什么我们有这么多糖果——因为数量很多，就像装满了两个 Piggly Wiggly 袋子一样。
Robin and Comelita put me on retainer as their defense attorney in exchange for them doing one of my household chores.
罗宾和科梅利塔聘请我担任他们的辩护律师，以换取他们帮我做一项家务。
We gathered in the den, which we call the middle room, where Chief Justice Dorothy Harriot presided.
我们聚集在我们称之为中间房间的书房里，首席大法官多萝西·哈里奥特 (Dorothy Harriot) 在那里主持会议。
She would sit in the canary yellow La-Z-Boy, and we'd plead our case from the couch/witness box.
她会坐在金丝雀黄色的 La-Z-Boy 里，而我们会在沙发/证人席上为我们的案件辩护。
We swore each other in on a copy of our favorite book.
我们在一本我们最喜欢的书上互相宣誓。
Encyclopedia Brown was mine.
百科全书布朗是我的。
And I came up with a defense that I still argue should have worked because, remember, we weren't allowed to eat candy.
我提出了一个我仍然认为应该有效的辩护，因为，记住，我们不被允许吃糖果。
My defense was that she didn't catch y'all eating candy.
我的辩解是她没有发现你们都在吃糖果。
She can't prove that y'all ate the candy.
她无法证明你们都吃了糖果。
Y'all just had the candy.
你们都刚吃了糖果。
How she know y'all wasn't trying to sell candy?
她怎么知道你们不是想卖糖果？
I know y'all was eating it.
我知道你们都在吃它。
But that was my defense.
但这是我的辩护。
I don't remember exactly, but mom would have cross-examined Comelita and Robin.
我记不太清楚了，但妈妈会盘问科米利塔和罗宾。
She probably asked them if they understood why we couldn't have candy.
她可能问他们是否明白为什么我们不能吃糖果。
It was because I had ADHD, which my mom believed got worse with sugar.
这是因为我患有多动症，我妈妈认为吃糖会使这种情况变得更糟。
After we'd made our arguments, our mom dismissed Harriot Court by saying, OK, make good choices.
在我们争论完之后，我们的妈妈驳回了哈里奥特·考特，她说，好吧，做出正确的选择。
Then she'd deliberate before issuing a written opinion-- yes, a written opinion-- which would be taped to our doors.
然后她会在发表书面意见之前进行深思熟虑——是的，书面意见——然后将其贴在我们的门上。
Describe how you used to feel like in your body when you was waiting for her to decide.
描述一下当你等待她决定时你的身体感觉如何。
Oh, my God.
我的天啊。
Like the world's gonna come to an end, like it was anything.
就好像世界末日即将来临，就像发生了什么事一样。
It might be the next day.
可能是第二天。
It might be the same night.
可能是同一个晚上。
You didn't know what was going to happen.
你不知道会发生什么。
And you would just take the paper, and it'd be folded up, and you'd have to read your decision.
你只需拿起这张纸，它就会被折叠起来，你必须阅读你的决定。
But you know what?
但你知道吗？
She never said, well, let me consult with somebody else.
她从来没有说过，好吧，让我咨询一下其他人。
It was all-- [LAUGHS]
这就是——[笑]
You're right.
你是对的。
She didn't never consult with anybody.
她从来没有和任何人商量过。
She didn't consult with anybody.
她没有与任何人商量。
No appeals.
没有上诉。
It was what she said was it.
她说的就是这样。
The sentences were usually something like a week of extra chores or two weeks in solitary bedroom confinement, which happened so frequently, it eventually became known as being "on punishment." And because we didn't go to school and only had each other to play with, those in-room incarceration periods seemed unbearably long.
这些刑罚通常是一周的额外家务劳动或两周的单独卧室监禁，这种情况发生得如此频繁，最终被称为“惩罚”。而且因为我们不上学，只是互相玩耍，所以那些在房间里的监禁时间似乎长得令人难以忍受。
And that was the point.
这就是重点。
The punishment gave you time to learn from your mistakes.
惩罚让你有时间从错误中吸取教训。
In the candy case, Mom came down hard on Comelita and Robin.
在糖果案中，妈妈对科米丽塔和罗宾很严厉。
They were on punishment for a long time, and they both never stole candy again.
他们受到了很长一段时间的惩罚，再也没有偷过糖果。
For years, I've remembered the candy case as an example of the court working the best, but when I talked to Comelita about it recently, she made me look at things a little differently.
多年来，我一直记得糖果案是法院运作最好的一个例子，但当我最近与科梅利塔谈论这件事时，她让我对事情的看法有些不同。
We was on punishment a long time.
我们受到惩罚很长时间了。
But it didn't matter with me and Robin because we used to always do what we wasn't supposed to do anyway.
但这对我和罗宾来说并不重要，因为我们过去总是做我们不应该做的事情。
Mama was at work, so me and Robin would do whatever we wanted to do up until we knew it was time for her to come home.
妈妈在工作，所以我和罗宾会做我们想做的任何事情，直到我们知道她该回家了。
So it really didn't matter.
所以这真的没关系。
Comelita didn't stop misbehaving.
科米利塔并没有停止不当行为。
I can just see her, sitting in her room, thinking over the lessons she learned from the candy case-- find a better hiding spot.
我只能看到她坐在自己的房间里，思考她从糖果盒中学到的教训——寻找更好的藏身之处。
So maybe it wasn't the perfect criminal justice system.
所以也许这不是完美的刑事司法系统。
And the more I think about it, there seemed to be a lot of cases like this, ones that showed, in retrospect, that our beloved Harriot Court was kind of flawed, like the case of Sean versus the Big Lie, which started when my mom eventually allowed us to attend public school.
我想得越多，似乎有很多这样的案例，回想起来，这些案例表明我们心爱的哈里奥特法院是有缺陷的，就像肖恩诉大谎言的案例一样，这个案例始于我妈妈最终允许我们上公立学校。
I think I might have been in fifth or sixth grade.
我想我可能已经上五年级或六年级了。
And I went to the school, and I told them I was dying.
我去了学校，告诉他们我快要死了。
I forgot about that!
我忘了那件事了！
[LAUGHS] Go ahead.
[笑]继续吧。
Go ahead.
前进。
Go ahead.
前进。
I told them I was dying.
我告诉他们我快要死了。
I had this undetermined disease that nobody knew about.
我患有这种没有人知道的不明疾病。
And literally, the whole grade was like, oh, my goodness, she's dying.
从字面上看，整个年级就像，哦，天哪，她快死了。
They don't know how much time she's gonna have.
他们不知道她还有多少时间。
So they would come in, sign my desk, and do all that stuff.
所以他们会进来，在我的桌子上签名，然后做所有这些事情。
And so, even the teachers, they was feeling bad.
所以，即使是老师们，他们也感觉很糟糕。
The principal, they were feeling bad.
校长，他们心情不好。
Sean's classmates raised money for her unnamed terminal illness and even signed a huge poster that was supposed to go in her casket.
肖恩的同学为她未透露姓名的绝症筹集资金，甚至在一张原本应该放在她棺材里的巨幅海报上签名。
She kept this lie going for months, until my mom found out about it.
她这个谎言持续了几个月，直到我妈妈发现为止。
I think it was like parent-teacher conference or something.
我认为这就像家长会或其他什么。
And so, my mom went, and the teacher was just expressing how she was feeling bad and asking about everything that was going on.
于是，我妈妈去了，老师只是表达了她的感觉不好，并询问了发生的一切。
She even showed her how I had the people signing on my desk and everything.
她甚至向她展示了我如何让人们在我的桌子上签名以及所有东西。
And oh, boy, when she got home, she asked me, was like, well, when are you supposed to be dying?
哦，天哪，当她回到家时，她问我，就像，好吧，你什么时候会死？
And I just can't-- you know how you lose your breath?
我就是不能——你知道你是怎么呼吸困难的吗？
You're like, hmm?
你就像，嗯？
Huh?
啊？
And she was like, so you're gonna be sick for real.
她说，所以你真的会生病的。
[LAUGHS] You're really gonna be sick, for real.
[笑]你真的会生病的，真的。
Lying was a big deal in our house.
在我们家，说谎是一件大事。
We weren't even allowed to say the word "lie." Sean called for a Harriot court trial, but really, it was just a delay tactic.
我们甚至不被允许说“谎言”这个词。肖恩呼吁对哈里奥特进行法庭审判，但实际上，这只是一种拖延策略。
She knew she didn't have a case.
她知道她没有案子。
She was just trying to buy time, hoping my mom would cool off.
她只是想争取时间，希望我妈妈能冷静下来。
It didn't work.
它不起作用。
The case went to trial, and my mom put her on punishment for weeks.
案件进入审判阶段，我妈妈对她进行了数周的惩罚。
Sean never told another lie like that again, unless you count that time she lied about going to spring break in '94.
肖恩再也没有说过这样的谎言，除非你算上94年她谎称要去春假的那次。
But the thing I realized, when I talked to her, was she wasn't just acting out for no reason.
但当我和她交谈时，我意识到她并不是无缘无故地表现出来的。
This new school was a totally different environment.
这所新学校的环境完全不同。
At home, she was the tough older sister.
在家里，她是个坚强的姐姐。
But at school, she was crying every day.
但在学校里，她每天都在哭。
It was a culture shock for us.
这对我们来说是一次文化冲击。
Totally different school, totally different neighborhood.
完全不同的学校，完全不同的社区。
I mean, predominantly white people, like literally.
我的意思是，主要是白人，就像字面意思一样。
I ain't have a lot of friends.
我没有很多朋友。
I only had like maybe three or four friends that, like I really did.
我大概只有三四个朋友，就像我真正的朋友一样。
And I think that was probably the reason why I actually started doing it.
我想这可能就是我真正开始这样做的原因。
And I was like, hmm, it's getting me some attention, so I'm just going to keep going.
我当时想，嗯，这引起了我的关注，所以我要继续前进。
Looking back, I can't say that Harriot Court worked in this instance.
回想起来，我不能说 Harriot Court 在这种情况下发挥了作用。
Sean was lonely, and she needed attention, so she acted out by telling a lie.
纪擎轩很孤独，需要关注，所以就撒了谎。
My mom punished her for the lie, but it didn't help her make friends.
我妈妈因为她的谎言而惩罚了她，但这并没有帮助她交到朋友。
Like the real world criminal justice system, Harriot Court didn't address the root cause of the problem it was trying to fix.
与现实世界的刑事司法系统一样，哈里特法院没有解决其试图解决的问题的根本原因。
Over the years, as we learned about the real world, Harriot Court became more complex.
多年来，随着我们对现实世界的了解，Harriot Court 变得更加复杂。
The "ass case" addressed the no profanity rule.
“屁股案”涉及禁止脏话规则。
We used the court to establish precedent, like "I was doing it first," which stated that you weren't breaking the no hitting rule, as long as you were moving your arm and yelling, "I was doing this first!" After all, it wasn't your fault if someone got clocked upside the head.
我们利用法庭来建立先例，比如“我先这样做”，这说明你只要移动手臂并大喊“我先这样做！”就没有违反禁止击打规则。毕竟，如果有人被打倒了，那不是你的错。
You were doing it first.
是你先做的。
We even used it to overturn previous verdicts, like the one that enforced our religion's ban against women wearing pants.
我们甚至用它来推翻以前的判决，例如执行我们宗教禁止女性穿裤子的判决。
In Harriot Court, we successfully convinced my mom to overturn the no pants rule, so Sean could play softball.
在哈里特球场，我们成功说服我妈妈推翻了不穿裤子的规定，这样肖恩就可以打垒球了。
And as with any justice system, over time, my sisters and I found loopholes that we could use to subvert our mom's strict rules.
与任何司法系统一样，随着时间的推移，我和我的姐妹们发现了一些漏洞，我们可以利用这些漏洞来颠覆我们妈妈的严格规定。
We became a team of semi-crooked lawyers, the esteemed firm of Harriot, Harriot, Harriot, and another Harriot.
我们成为了一支半奸诈的律师团队，一家受人尊敬的哈里奥特律师事务所，哈里奥特律师事务所，哈里奥特律师事务所，又一个哈里奥特律师事务所。
Sometimes we faced each other in court, which brings us to the last case, which is about me, Michael versus Syrup.
有时我们在法庭上面对面，这让我们想到最后一个案件，这是关于我的，迈克尔诉西勒普案。
As the oldest, one of Sean's many responsibilities was operating the washing machine.
作为年龄最大的孩子，肖恩的众多职责之一就是操作洗衣机。
She was the only sibling allowed to do it.
她是唯一被允许这样做的兄弟姐妹。
So I was the person that had to wash the clothes.
所以我就是那个必须洗衣服的人。
I would wash the clothes, and the other girls would either put them in the dryer or hang them out, whatever needed to be done to them.
我会洗衣服，其他女孩要么把它们放进烘干机里，要么把它们挂起来，无论需要做什么。
And he didn't do anything, except empty the trash when he was told.
他什么也没做，只是在被告知时清空了垃圾桶。
I had to do the yards.
我必须整理院子。
I had to lift all the stuff in the house.
我不得不把房子里的所有东西都搬起来。
Like--
就像——
How often was that, though?
不过，那是多久一次呢？
How often was that?
那是多久一次？
That was not that often.
这种情况并不常见。
That was not that often.
这种情况并不常见。
Sean always felt like I wasn't doing enough.
肖恩总觉得我做得还不够。
And as the person whose sisters nicknamed him "the absent-minded professor," I was the only sibling who regularly forgot to give her my clothes.
我的姐妹们昵称他为“心不在焉的教授”，而我是唯一一个经常忘记给她衣服的兄弟姐妹。
One day, she finally reached the tipping point and exacted her revenge.
有一天，她终于达到了临界点，实施了复仇。
I literally was like, I'm not washing your clothes anymore.
我当时就想，我不再洗你的衣服了。
I'm like, I'm not doing it anymore.
我想，我不再这样做了。
And I washed everybody's clothes except his that week.
那周我洗了除了他以外所有人的衣服。
But the next day was Picture Day.
但第二天是图片日。
I think you left that important detail out.
我认为你遗漏了这个重要的细节。
It was picture day.
那天是拍照日。
I was furious.
我很生气。
Sean's petty vengeance meant I wouldn't have my favorite shirt on one of the most important events on the elementary school calendar-- picture day.
肖恩的小报复意味着我不会在小学日历上最重要的活动之一——拍照日——上穿我最喜欢的衬衫。
And if you wonder why I couldn't just convince her to do another load, that wasn't even an option.
如果你想知道为什么我不能说服她再做一次，那根本就不是一个选择。
Two loads?
两担？
In one week?
一星期内？
In the Harriot house?
在哈里奥特家吗？
Does my mom look like Daddy Warbucks to you?
你觉得我妈妈像沃巴克斯爸爸吗？
So, because of my mom's one load per week rule, I had no choice but to find a loophole that could get me what I wanted.
所以，由于我妈妈每周一次的规定，我别无选择，只能找到一个漏洞来得到我想要的东西。
So we would like get our clothes out at night.
所以我们想在晚上把衣服拿出来。
For some reason, that particular night, I didn't get my clothes out.
出于某种原因，那天晚上我没有把衣服脱下来。
And then when I went to really go get my clothes out, and it was like syrup all over my clothes in the drawer.
然后当我真的去把衣服拿出来时，抽屉里的衣服就像糖浆一样。
I had snuck into her room with a bottle of Cane Patch syrup and poured it all over her clothes.
我带着一瓶甘蔗糖浆溜进她的房间，把它倒在她的衣服上。
Of course, she was upset, but this was all part of my plan.
当然，她很不高兴，但这都是我计划的一部分。
Now that we were both without clothes for Picture Day, there was only one place we could settle our differences-- Harriot Court.
既然我们都没有穿衣服去参加拍照日，那么我们就只有一个地方可以解决我们的分歧——哈里奥特法院。
I argued that the solution was for my mom to grant a one-time special exemption from the one load rule.
我认为解决方案是让我妈妈给予一次性特殊豁免，不受单载规则的约束。
I won.
我赢了。
She was like, well, since you got to wash those anyway, you might as well wash his clothes since you got to wash them anyway.
她说，好吧，既然你无论如何都得洗这些，那你不妨洗他的衣服，因为无论如何你都要洗它们。
So I was like, I literally had to wash all my clothes over, plus his clothes.
所以我想，我真的必须洗掉我所有的衣服，还有他的衣服。
And he was the one who put the syrup on my clothes.
他就是把糖浆涂在我衣服上的人。
Sean had to pay for a crime that I committed, while I escaped without punishment.
肖恩必须为我犯下的罪行付出代价，而我却逃脱了惩罚。
In the moment when I won, I felt great.
当我获胜的那一刻，我感觉很棒。
I ran around the middle room, gloating about my superior legal skills.
我在中间的房间里跑来跑去，为自己高超的法律技能而沾沾自喜。
But when I went to my bedroom afterwards, which was next to the laundry room, I could hear her sobbing to herself, as she tossed those clothes in the washing machine.
但后来当我回到洗衣房旁边的卧室时，我可以听到她一边抽泣，一边把衣服扔进洗衣机。
I felt terrible.
我感觉很糟糕。
I hurt my sister just to get my way, and I'd done it in the worst way possible-- by weaponizing an institution that was created to give us justice.
我伤害了我的妹妹，只是为了达到我的目的，而且我以最糟糕的方式做到了这一点——通过武器化一个为我们伸张正义而创建的机构。
I was just another lawyer gaming the system.
我只是另一位利用系统进行游戏的律师。
Perry Mason would never.
佩里·梅森永远不会。
30 years later, my sisters and I have never really talked to our mom about Harriot Court.
30 年后，我和我的姐妹们从未真正与妈妈谈论过 Harriot Court。
She was the person who wrote the rules and made the decisions, but I've never asked her if her system worked as she intended or why she started it in the first place.
她是制定规则和做出决定的人，但我从未问过她的系统是否按她的预期运行，或者她最初为什么要启动它。
Turns out, she didn't just create it to keep us in check.
事实证明，她创造它不仅仅是为了控制我们。
My secret ambition was to go to law school.
我的秘密愿望是去法学院。
Even now, today, my favorite TV show is Judge Judy.
即使是现在，今天，我最喜欢的电视节目是朱迪法官。
[LAUGHS] So I watch Judge Judy.
[笑]所以我看朱迪法官。
I watch Trish.
我看翠西。
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my mom, the honorable Dorothy Harriot.
陪审团的女士们先生们，我的妈妈，尊敬的多萝西·哈里奥特。
Well, we used to watch People's Court.
嗯，我们以前看过《人民法院》。
Y'all had to watch People's Court because I watched it all the time.
你们都必须看《人民法院》，因为我一直在看。
And I can't remember that judge's name.
我不记得那位法官的名字了。
Yeah, but those are my favorite shows, even today.
是的，但即使在今天，这些都是我最喜欢的节目。
I should have gone to law school.
我应该去法学院。
I didn't because I didn't think I could pass the LSAT.
我没有，因为我认为我无法通过 LSAT。
I probably could have, but I was afraid to take it.
我也许可以，但我不敢接受。
My mother says, honestly, for her, Harriot Court was partly for her own enjoyment.
我母亲说，老实说，对她来说，哈里特庭院部分是为了她自己的享受。
She loved arguing with me, although she told me, I wasn't the young legal eagle I remembered, which stung.
她喜欢和我争论，尽管她告诉我，我不再是我记忆中那只令人刺痛的年轻法律鹰了。
In my head, I thought I was one of the most persuasive attorneys.
在我看来，我认为自己是最有说服力的律师之一。
Had you already made up your mind when you rendered your decisions?
当你做出决定的时候，你已经下定决心了吗？
Most of the time, yes, because I had already thought about it, whatever we were judging and whatever we were going to court for.
大多数时候，是的，因为我已经考虑过，无论我们在判断什么，无论我们要起诉什么。
So our arguments didn't sway you at all?
那么我们的争论根本没有动摇你吗？
No, because I had already made up my mind that y'all ain't had no couth and no do right in y'all.
不，因为我已经下定决心，你们不是没有礼貌、没有做事的人。
None of y'all.
你们都没有。
So-- Dorothy Harriot So it was down to Comelita.
所以——多萝西·哈里奥特 所以这取决于科梅利塔。
Why have the court?
为什么要有法庭？
Yeah.
是的。
Dorothy Harriot Because I wanted to be fair.
多萝西·哈里特 因为我想公平。
I wanted y'all to think I was being fair.
我希望你们都认为我是公平的。
Were you being fair?
你公平吗？
Dorothy Harriot I think I was pretty fair.
多萝西·哈里奥特 我认为我很公平。
Did you think it made us better behaved, worse behaved, or no change?
你认为这会让我们表现更好、表现更差还是没有改变？
I don't think it really made a difference with y'all.
我不认为这对你们有什么影响。
Y'all were just bad.
你们都太糟糕了。
Nobody could come up with the things that y'all did.
没有人能想出你们所做的事情。
Y'all were just some bad children.
你们都只是一些坏孩子。
To be honest, today, y'all still them children.
说实话，今天你们都还是孩子。
Y'all the James Avenue bad children.
你们都是詹姆斯大街的坏孩子。
Come to think of it, my sisters and I never really changed that much.
想想看，我和我的姐妹们从来没有真正改变过那么多。
Comelita is still the most rebellious.
科米利塔仍然是最叛逆的。
Sean is still the snitch who will tell Mom, you know that's whiskey in Mikey's cup.
肖恩仍然是那个会告诉妈妈的告密者，你知道那是米奇杯子里的威士忌。
And me, I'm still the same "let me explain why I'm correct" know-it-all, who my mom once called a right supremacist.
而我，仍然是那个“让我解释一下为什么我是正确的”万事通，我妈妈曾经称之为右派至上主义者。
But the court did one thing.
但法庭做了一件事。
It turned me and my sisters into a team.
它使我和我的姐妹们成为一个团队。
It was us versus the judge, us trying to outthink Mom.
这是我们与法官的对决，我们试图超越妈妈。
I created that atmosphere on purpose.
我是故意营造这样的氛围的。
I wanted you guys to know how to stand your own ground and to be honest about who you were and what you were doing.
我希望你们知道如何坚持自己的立场，诚实地对待自己是谁以及自己在做什么。
And I think I made that point.
我想我已经指出了这一点。
Court made that point.
法院指出了这一点。
It taught you guys loyalty to each other and the fact that y'all didn't snitch on each other, and y'all still don't snitch on each other.
它教会了你们彼此忠诚，也教会了你们不会互相告密，而且现在仍然不会互相告密。
Well, Sean did.
好吧，肖恩做到了。
Dorothy Harriot That's who she was.
多萝西·哈里奥特 她就是这样的人。
She did.
她做到了。
She told everything.
她把一切都说了。
Talking to her, I realized that Harriot Court was not some genius institution that fit perfectly into my mom's master plan.
与她交谈后，我意识到哈里特法院并不是一个完全符合我妈妈总体规划的天才机构。
Like most parents, she was just making it up as she went along.
和大多数父母一样，她只是边做边弥补。
But to us, my mom tried this amazingly ambitious thing.
但对我们来说，我妈妈尝试了这个令人惊讶的雄心勃勃的事情。
Because of it, we still have this almost unreasonable faith in logic and justice.
正因为如此，我们仍然对逻辑和正义抱有近乎不合理的信念。
And whenever we talk, our conversations end the exact same way my mom ended each session of Harriot Court-- OK, make good choices.
每当我们谈话时，我们的谈话的结束方式就和我妈妈结束 Harriot Court 的每次会议的方式完全相同——好吧，做出正确的选择。
Michael Harriot, he's a writer for The Grio.
迈克尔·哈里奥特 (Michael Harriot)，《The Grio》的编剧。
His latest book is Black AF History, The Un-Whitewashed Story of America.
他的最新著作是《黑人 AF 历史：美国未被粉饰的故事》。
His story was produced by Emmanuel Dzotsi.
他的故事由伊曼纽尔·佐西 (Emmanuel Dzotsi) 创作。
Coming up, a thief steals something very rare to build a spaceship.
接下来，一名小偷偷走了一些非常稀有的东西来建造一艘宇宙飞船。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Minor Crimes Division, stories of tiny acts of wrongdoing, what they say about the people who commit them and about the people who've devoted themselves to catching and punishing these acts.
今天的节目《轻微犯罪司》讲述了微小不法行为的故事，他们对犯下这些行为的人以及致力于抓捕和惩罚这些行为的人的评价。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, "Alternate Side." Well, sometimes, there's a disagreement over whether a tiny act of wrongdoing is, in fact, an act of wrongdoing at all.
第二幕，“另一面”。嗯，有时候，对于微小的不当行为是否真的是一种不当行为，存在分歧。
One of our producers, Aviva DeKornfeld, has such a tale.
我们的一位制片人 Aviva DeKornfeld 有这样一个故事。
Caveh Zahedi had just moved to San Francisco.
卡维·扎赫迪 (Caveh Zahedi) 刚刚搬到旧金山。
He hadn't even really moved there yet.
他甚至还没有真正搬到那里。
He'd just driven there with a car full of stuff and crashed at a friend's house while he looked for an apartment.
他刚刚开着一辆装满东西的车去那里，在寻找公寓时撞到了朋友家。
He didn't have a permit to park in his friend's neighborhood, which meant he had to move his car every two hours.
他没有在朋友家附近停车的许可证，这意味着他必须每两个小时移动一次汽车。
So, I would have to go every day, every two hours, and move the car.
所以，我必须每天、每两个小时去一次，把车搬走。
He does this all day, every day.
他每天都这样做。
It's extremely annoying, but he's diligent about it.
这非常烦人，但他很努力。
And then one day, he comes out to find a parking ticket tucked under his windshield wiper.
然后有一天，他出来发现挡风玻璃雨刷下藏着一张停车罚单。
I remember I was like, what the fuck?
我记得我当时想，他妈的怎么了？
I moved it.
我移动了它。
It's been less than two hours.
已经过去不到两个小时了。
This is wrong.
这是错误的。
I didn't do anything wrong.
我没有做错任何事。
I followed the rules.
我遵守规则。
It was an expensive ticket, around $300.
票价很贵，大约300美元。
He decides to contest it.
他决定对此进行抗争。
So I go to the court, and I explain to the judge what happened.
所以我去了法庭，向法官解释发生了什么事。
And she says, how far did you move it?
她说，你把它移了多远？
And I said, I don't know.
我说，我不知道。
Maybe like 30 feet?
也许像 30 英尺？
Just guessing.
只是猜测。
I didn't even know what 30 feet looked like.
我什至不知道30英尺是什么样子。
And I said, why?
我说，为什么？
How far are you supposed to move it?
你应该把它移多远？
She says, I don't know.
她说，我不知道。
Let me look it up.
让我查一下。
So she takes out this big law book.
于是她拿出了这本厚厚的法律书。
And she's going through it, and she finds a thing.
她正在经历这一切，并且发现了一件事。
She says, oh, here it is.
她说，哦，就在这里。
It says here, you have to move it, oh, 35 feet, so I'm afraid I have to give you the ticket.
这里写着，你必须移动它，哦，35英尺，所以我恐怕必须给你票了。
You lose.
你输了。
And I said, wait a minute.
我说，等一下。
First of all, it might have been 35.
首先，它可能是35。
It might have been 40.
可能是40。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I didn't measure it.
我没有测量。
Second of all, you didn't even know what the amount was.
其次，你甚至不知道具体金额是多少。
And if you don't even know what the amount was, why should I have to pay a ticket for something that you don't even know what the law is?
如果你甚至不知道具体金额是多少，为什么我要为你甚至不知道法律是什么的东西支付罚单？
No one knows.
没有人知道。
They didn't say anything about it.
他们对此什么也没说。
It's in this stupid book, and it's ridiculous.
这是一本愚蠢的书，而且很荒谬。
She said, well, I'm sorry.
她说，好吧，我很抱歉。
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
对法律的无知不能成为借口。
And I just couldn't accept defeat like that without saying anything.
我就是无法不言不语地接受这样的失败。
I wanted her to feel at least bad about it, or at least, I just wanted to put some doubt in her mind that she may have been wrong.
我希望她至少对此感到难过，或者至少，我只是想让她怀疑她可能错了。
This is the kind of person Caveh is.
卡维就是这样的人。
When he sees something in the world that seems wrong or ill-conceived or unfair, it's very hard for him not to point it out.
当他看到世界上一些看似错误、考虑不周或不公平的事情时，他很难不指出来。
This is either a strength or a personality defect.
这要么是一种优点，要么是一种性格缺陷。
He sees it as both.
他认为两者兼而有之。
Caveh majored in philosophy-- still reads it sometimes-- which is why, on his way out of the courtroom, he stopped, turned back to the judge, and-- I know how this sounds-- said this, do you know the distinction between legalism and essentialism in Chinese philosophy?
卡维主修哲学——有时还会读这本书——这就是为什么他在走出法庭的路上停下来，转身对法官说——我知道这听起来如何——说，你知道中国哲学中的法家和本质主义的区别吗？
No surprise, the judge said, no, she didn't.
毫不奇怪，法官说，不，她没有。
And I said, well, the legalists believe in applying the letter of the law, and the essentialists believe in the spirit of the law.
我说，法律主义者相信法律条文的适用，而本质主义者则相信法律的精神。
And in terms of the spirit of the law, I didn't do anything wrong.
从法律精神来看，我并没有做错任何事。
I followed the spirit of the law, the spirit of the law to get you to move your car so other people can use that spot, and you don't just hog it.
我遵循法律的精神，法律的精神让你移动你的车，这样其他人就可以使用那个位置，而你不只是霸占它。
I did that.
我就是这么做的。
The letter of the law says 35 feet, but it's random and arbitrary.
法律条文规定为 35 英尺，但它是随机且任意的。
It could be 34 feet or 36 feet or 40 feet or 20 feet.
它可以是 34 英尺、36 英尺、40 英尺或 20 英尺。
It doesn't really matter.
这并不重要。
It's just like this literal nonsense.
这就像字面上的废话一样。
And the essentialists are right, and the legalists are wrong.
本质主义者是对的，律法主义者是错的。
And you are aligning with the legalists.
你正在与律法主义者结盟。
And she said something like, well, that's very interesting.
她说了这样的话，嗯，这很有趣。
Thank you for enlightening me.
谢谢你启发我。
I always think that people can be persuaded of something that makes sense.
我始终认为，人们可以被说服，相信一些有道理的事情。
But if I'm a judge and some guy starts talking to me about the nuances in Chinese philosophy, I feel like I'd be like, I'm going to double that guy's fine.
但如果我是一名法官，有人开始和我谈论中国哲学的细微差别，我觉得我会说，我会加倍那个人的罚款。
[LAUGHS] Well, she didn't double it, but she certainly didn't cancel it.
[笑]嗯，她没有加倍，但她当然没有取消。
You still had to pay.
你还是得付钱。
Caveh Zahedi Yeah, yeah, I paid.
Caveh Zahedi 是的，是的，我付了钱。
This all happened years ago.
这一切都发生在几年前。
It turns out the fine Caveh had to pay was smaller than he remembers, and the number of feet for parking was larger, but the spirit of the story remains the same.
事实证明，卡维需要支付的罚款比他记忆中的要少，停车的英尺数也更多，但故事的精神仍然是一样的。
Anyway, Caveh finally gets an apartment of his own and a parking permit for his car, so he doesn't have to move it every two hours anymore.
不管怎样，卡维终于得到了自己的公寓和汽车的停车许可证，所以他不必再每两个小时搬一次车了。
But it's still hard to find a place to park.
但还是很难找到停车的地方。
And sometimes you are just circling the streets, like, for half an hour or an hour, and it's late at night.
有时你只是在街上转悠半个小时或一个小时，而且已经是深夜了。
And you can't find a spot, and you're tired, and you're angry, and you're hungry.
你找不到地方，你又累，又生气，又饿。
And you're just like, ugh!
而你就像，呃！
And so, sometimes, you're just desperate, so you'll park somewhere that's kind of like borderline illegal.
所以，有时候，你只是绝望了，所以你会把车停在有点违法的地方。
So I did that.
所以我就这么做了。
I couldn't take it anymore, so I just parked near the corner curb, which you're not supposed to.
我再也受不了了，所以我把车停在路边拐角处，这是不应该的。
And but it was barely touching.
但它几乎没有触及。
It was barely.
勉强可以。
And the next morning, I go to my car, and I have a ticket.
第二天早上，我上了车，拿到了票。
And I decided to contest it.
我决定对此进行争论。
And why?
为什么？
You actually did something wrong this time.
这次你确实做错了。
I know, but it was so much money, and it was so close.
我知道，但钱太多了，而且还很接近。
I don't.
我不知道。
I just-- I contested it.
我只是——我对此提出了异议。
What were you imagining your argument would be?
你想象你的论点会是什么？
Because you can't do the spirit of the law, letter of the law thing in this case.
因为在这种情况下你不能遵循法律精神和法律条文。
I don't know what I was thinking.
我不知道我在想什么。
I thought maybe-- I don't know.
我想也许——我不知道。
It makes no sense, but I contested it.
这毫无意义，但我对此提出异议。
And I go to the same court.
我去同一个法庭。
I wait around for a long time, and I get the same judge.
我等了很长时间，得到的还是同一个法官。
And she says to me, I remember you.
她对我说，我记得你。
You're the guy [LAUGHS] who talked to me about the difference between legalism and essentialism in Chinese philosophy.
你就是那个跟我谈论中国哲学中法家和本质主义之间区别的人[笑]。
And I said, yeah, you remember that?
我说，是的，你还记得吗？
And she's like, I do.
她就像，我愿意。
She says, I thought about that a lot.
她说，我想了很多。
She said, and thinking about it, I think you were right.
她说，转念一想，我觉得你说得对。
I think the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law.
我认为法律的精神比法律的文字更重要。
And I regretted giving you that ticket.
我很遗憾给了你那张票。
And even though you are clearly guilty in this case, I'm not going to make you pay for this ticket because I made you pay for one that you weren't guilty for.
即使你在本案中显然有罪，我也不会让你为这张罚单付费，因为我让你为一张你无罪的罚单付费。
So she canceled it.
所以她取消了。
That's unbelievable.
这太难以置信了。
Caveh Zahedi That a person could be persuaded by another person?
Caveh Zahedi 一个人可以被另一个人说服吗？
Kind of.
有点儿。
How often do people change their minds?
人们多久改变一次主意？
Almost never.
几乎从来没有。
What was your reaction?
你的反应是什么？
Caveh Zahedi Well, I was delighted.
Caveh Zahedi 嗯，我很高兴。
[LAUGHS] And I don't know.
[笑]我不知道。
I felt like the world seems so inhuman and so bureaucratic, and it just seemed like the human had prevailed for once.
我觉得这个世界似乎如此不人道，如此官僚，似乎人类曾经占了上风。
Seriously, all across the world, on any given day, how many people actually take the time to listen to what a complete stranger has to say, consider it, change their mind, and then admit to it?
说真的，在世界各地，在任何一天，有多少人真正花时间聆听一个完全陌生的人所说的话，考虑一下，改变主意，然后承认这一点？
Hardly ever.
几乎从来没有。
And the fact that this doesn't happen more often, that's a crime, and not a minor one.
事实上，这种情况并不经常发生，这是一种犯罪，而不是轻微的犯罪。
Aviva DeKornfeld.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德。
Caveh Zahedi told this story on his podcast, 365 Stories I Want to Tell You Before We Both Die.
Caveh Zahedi 在他的播客“我们死前我想告诉你的 365 个故事”中讲述了这个故事。
Act Three, "Jewel Intentions." So sometimes small crimes can be hard to solve because they are so small.
第三幕，“珠宝的意图”。因此，有时小犯罪可能很难侦破，因为它们太小了。
This next story is about a scheme that had been going on for a very long time, right under everybody's noses.
下一个故事讲述的是一个在所有人眼皮底下持续了很长时间的计划。
It was brazen, but nobody could figure out who was behind it.
虽然很厚颜无耻，但没有人知道幕后黑手是谁。
Micaela Blei told the story of what happened on stage at The Moth.
Micaela Blei 讲述了 The Moth 舞台上发生的故事。
In the elementary school where I teach, there are LEGOs that are very valuable and LEGOs no one gives a shit about.
在我任教的小学里，有非常有价值的乐高积木，也有没人在乎的乐高积木。
[LAUGHTER] The ones you don't really care about are the ones there are thousands of-- the gray two by fours, the black two by fours, anything that's red.
[笑声] 你真正不关心的是成千上万的——灰色的两四块，黑色的两块四块，任何红色的东西。
For some reason, all we have are red LEGOs.
出于某种原因，我们只有红色乐高积木。
And the ones that are valuable are the things that you can't really find.
而真正有价值的东西，往往是你无法真正找到的。
So there's a second grade, a third grade, and a fourth grade.
所以有二年级、三年级、四年级。
Everyone's got bins.
每个人都有垃圾桶。
And in these bins, the things you very rarely see are anything lime green.
在这些垃圾箱中，你很少看到的是石灰绿色的东西。
I think once upon a time, we had a set that was lime green.
我想从前，我们有一套柠檬绿的。
Anything that has a picture on it, it's kind of magical.
凡是有图画的东西，都是有魔力的。
And then these jewels.
然后是这些珠宝。
There are these little, plastic, clear-colored LEGOs, and they really look valuable.
这些小塑料、透明的乐高积木，看起来真的很值钱。
And I mean, I'm kind of psyched about them, too.
我的意思是，我也对它们感到兴奋。
[LAUGHTER] And every class has, especially my class, has what I like to call the "black hole boys." They are the boys who sit anytime there's choice time and put together LEGOs and discuss theories of outer space and infinity.
[笑声] 每个班级，尤其是我的班级，都有我称之为“黑洞男孩”的人。他们是那些只要有时间就坐下来拼搭乐高积木并讨论外太空和无限理论的男孩。
And they build spaceships, and they're like, well, OK, but could there be a black hole that would be strong enough to pull other black holes in?
他们建造了宇宙飞船，他们想，好吧，但是是否存在一个足够强大的黑洞来吸引其他黑洞呢？
And they all think about that for a while.
他们都想了一会儿。
And they're my boys.
他们是我的孩子。
I like them.
我喜欢他们。
I'm really into them.
我真的很喜欢他们。
And most of playing LEGOs in anywhere in my school is really mostly just pawing through, looking for the valuable ones.
在我学校的任何地方玩乐高积木的大多数人实际上都是在翻找，寻找有价值的积木。
I mean, of course, you could build with them, but that's not the fun part.
我的意思是，当然，您可以使用它们进行构建，但这不是有趣的部分。
The fun part is, I found this orange jewel, or whatever.
有趣的是，我发现了这颗橙色宝石，或者其他什么。
So that's always a big deal, and all the bins are outside, underneath the cubbies.
所以这总是一件大事，所有的垃圾箱都在外面，在小隔间的下面。
So every class has their bins near their class's cubbies.
因此，每个班级的垃圾箱都放在班级的小隔间附近。
I teach third grade.
我教三年级。
The second graders come to me one day, and they say, we need your help.
有一天，二年级学生来找我，他们说，我们需要你的帮助。
We think someone's been stealing our jewels.
我们认为有人偷了我们的珠宝。
Now, they have to dismantle all their LEGOs at the end of every week so that it's really fair, so you have a chance to paw through and find the jewels anew every Monday.
现在，他们必须在每周结束时拆除所有的乐高积木，这样才真正公平，这样你就有机会在每个星期一重新寻找珠宝。
And they have been noticing that over the course of several weeks, they find fewer and fewer jewels, and they suspect my class.
他们注意到，在几周的时间里，他们发现的珠宝越来越少，他们怀疑我的班级。
And I say, you know what?
我说，你知道吗？
That's not really fair.
这不太公平。
I'm sure that it is not my guys who are doing that.
我确信这不是我的人干的。
And they say, well, we think you should look through their bins, at their spaceships, and find out if they have got our jewels.
他们说，好吧，我们认为你应该检查他们的垃圾箱、他们的宇宙飞船，看看他们是否拿到了我们的珠宝。
And I said, you know what?
我说，你知道吗？
That's not what we're going to do.
那不是我们要做的。
We're going to trust them.
我们会相信他们。
We're going to ask them, did you take those jewels?
我们要问他们，你拿走了那些珠宝吗？
And if they say no, we're going to believe them.
如果他们说不，我们就会相信他们。
Because secretly, I'm thinking, A, there's no way my boys did it, and B, I don't really want to get in the middle of that if that's what's going on.
因为私下里，我在想，A，我的孩子们不可能这么做，B，如果事情确实如此，我真的不想介入其中。
So we asked my boys.
所以我们问我的孩子们。
And the sort of ringleader, the head of the black hole boys, Edward is this very smart, very sour kid whose spaceships are amazing.
爱德华是那种头目，黑洞男孩的头目，他是一个非常聪明、非常酸的孩子，他的宇宙飞船令人惊叹。
I mean, they look like they could really go.
我的意思是，他们看起来真的可以走了。
And he says, no, we have not.
他说，不，我们没有。
Have you tried the fourth grade?
你尝试过四年级吗？
Because those guys think they're so big.
因为那些家伙认为自己太大了。
And so me and these three little second graders go to the fourth grade.
就这样我和这三个二年级的小学生升到了四年级。
And we say to some of the fourth graders who are playing with LEGOs, Did you guys take these jewels?
我们对一些玩乐高积木的四年级学生说，你们拿走了这些珠宝吗？
And the fourth graders say no, and then later, privately, they say, Are you sure the second graders are telling the truth?
四年级学生说不，然后私下里，他们说，你确定二年级学生说的是真话吗？
Because they think they're so cute.
因为他们觉得自己很可爱。
There's a culture of fear developing across all three grades.
所有三个年级都在发展一种恐惧文化。
No one trusts each other.
没有人互相信任。
Everyone's sort of looking at each other's things that they're building.
每个人都在关注彼此正在构建的东西。
And the teachers are picking up on it, too.
老师们也开始关注这一点。
I'm sort of watching everyone's spaceships, being like, I don't remember that orange one and that green one and the blue one in the second grade of 2A.
我有点看着每个人的宇宙飞船，就像，我不记得2A二年级的橙色那艘、绿色那艘和蓝色那艘。
I don't know if that's right.
我不知道这是否正确。
And I'm sort of getting there, too, but we're all kind of watching each other.
我也正在接近这个目标，但我们都在互相关注。
And then I am getting homework.
然后我就开始做作业了。
Edward does his homework and does more homework than he needs to, but he always forgets to hand it in.
爱德华做作业，而且做的作业比他需要的多，但他总是忘记交作业。
And so I just randomly-- I go into his cubby just to grab the math homework that I know is in there.
所以我只是随机地进入他的小房间只是为了拿我知道在那里的数学作业。
Under the math homework is a jewel encrusted spaceship.
数学作业下面是一艘镶满宝石的宇宙飞船。
Dazzling.
令人眼花缭乱。
The wings have wings, and those wings have other things.
翅膀有翅膀，那些翅膀还有其他东西。
And there's a glass window that I have literally never seen before.
还有一扇我以前从未见过的玻璃窗。
In the six years that I've been teaching there, I have never seen this glass window.
我在那里教书的六年里，我从来没有见过这扇玻璃窗。
It's beautiful, but I'm stuck with a dilemma.
很漂亮，但我陷入了困境。
What do I do with this?
我该怎么办？
If I accuse him, then number one, the second graders are kind of intense, and I'm a little worried about what they would do.
如果我指责他，那么第一，二年级学生有点紧张，我有点担心他们会做什么。
Number two, I already told the second graders it couldn't have possibly been my boys.
第二，我已经告诉二年级学生这不可能是我的孩子们。
This is my reputation on the line as well.
这也关系到我的声誉。
I don't want it to have been him.
我不希望是他。
I could, it occurs to me, just steal it back.
我突然想到，我可以把它偷回来。
I could just take it.
我可以接受它。
Because if he tried to say someone stole my jewel encrusted spaceship, that would be on him.
因为如果他试图说有人偷了我镶满珠宝的宇宙飞船，那肯定是他的错。
That would be his-- that's a dilemma he would have.
那将是他的——那是他将面临的困境。
But then I realized that that could possibly be framing another kid, and I do have-- I have my line I will not cross.
但后来我意识到这可能是在陷害另一个孩子，而我确实有——我有我的底线，我不会跨越。
So I'm not going to frame a kid.
所以我不会陷害一个孩子。
So instead, I wait for a Friday, when we should be taking apart our things.
因此，我会等待周五，那时我们应该拆开我们的东西。
And he has not been taking apart this spaceship.
而且他并没有拆开这艘飞船。
And I wait till Friday.
我等到星期五。
I get him alone, and I say to him really casually, so don't forget to take apart your spaceship.
我把他单独找来，我很随意地对他说，所以别忘了拆开你的飞船。
And he looks at me, and he knows I know.
他看着我，他知道我知道。
And he says something really ballsy.
他说了一些非常大胆的话。
He goes, I did.
他走了，我也走了。
I already did.
我已经这么做了。
I sit down with him.
我和他一起坐下来。
I open the cubby.
我打开小隔间。
I show him the spaceship.
我给他看了宇宙飞船。
And I say, this is an amazing spaceship.
我说，这是一艘了不起的宇宙飞船。
You did a really great job.
你做得非常好。
But you got to let it go.
但你必须放手。
And we cut a deal.
我们达成了协议。
And over the course of several weeks, we dismantle the spaceship very, very slowly.
在几周的时间里，我们非常非常缓慢地拆除了宇宙飞船。
I can't just smash it.
我不能就这样粉碎它。
I'm not going to do that.
我不会那样做。
I'm not going to just take the whole thing apart.
我不会把整个事情拆开。
And I start secretly putting those jewels back in other people's cubbies for him, so that he can still be the head of the black hole boys and not lose that reputation that he has that he loves, and so that I don't have to go back on my word that my boys didn't do anything.
我开始偷偷地为他把那些珠宝放回别人的小房间里，这样他仍然可以成为黑洞男孩的头目，而不会失去他所爱的声誉，这样我就不必食言，我的男孩们没有做任何事。
I was an accessory to a third grade crime.
我是三级犯罪的同谋。
There's no way around that.
没有办法解决这个问题。
That's it.
就是这样。
Thank you.
谢谢。
[APPLAUSE] Ira Glass Micaela Blei lives in Portland, Maine.
[掌声] Ira Glass Micaela Blei 住在缅因州波特兰。
Act Four, "Occam's Toilet." OK, so earlier in our show, we had a mom who invented an entire courtroom to teach her kids some lessons and some values.
第四幕，“奥卡姆厕所”。好的，在我们节目的早些时候，我们有一位妈妈发明了整个法庭来教她的孩子一些课程和一些价值观。
In this act, we have parents doing something so much simpler.
在这一行动中，我们让父母做一些简单得多的事情。
They're simply trying to level with their kids and reason with them, together.
他们只是想和孩子们讲道理，一起讲道理。
And in this case, they recorded what happened.
在这种情况下，他们记录了所发生的事情。
We've actually changed everybody's names at the kids' request.
实际上，我们已经根据孩子们的要求更改了每个人的名字。
Bethel Habte tells the story.
贝塞尔·哈布特讲述了这个故事。
Todd and Amy live in a house in New Jersey.
托德和艾米住在新泽西州的一所房子里。
It's an old house.
这是一栋老房子。
And one day, they noticed they've got a plumbing problem.
有一天，他们发现管道出现了问题。
There's liquid pooling in this hole in their basement floor around a sewage pipe.
地下室地板上污水管周围的这个洞里积满了液体。
They call a plumber, who snakes the drain and charges them $500.
他们打电话给水管工，水管工把下水道弄通了，并向他们收取了 500 美元。
And then, a few weeks later, the liquid reappears.
然后，几周后，液体再次出现。
A second plumber comes in.
第二个水管工进来了。
He can't find any other problems with their sewage system.
他找不到他们的污水处理系统的任何其他问题。
His professional opinion is that there isn't anything wrong with their sewage system.
他的专业意见是他们的污水系统没有任何问题。
He thinks what's going on is much simpler.
他认为发生的事情要简单得多。
The liquid in the hole is actually pee.
洞里的液体实际上是尿液。
Someone in their house is peeing in the hole.
他们家里有人在洞里撒尿。
What the plumber suggested seemed entirely possible.
水管工的建议似乎完全可能。
Amy and Todd have three boys, eight-year-old twins, Ryan and Lawrence, and their younger brother, Hugh.
艾米和托德有三个男孩，即八岁的双胞胎瑞安和劳伦斯，以及他们的弟弟休。
He's six.
他六岁了。
And so they gather the kids together to find out who peed in the hole.
于是他们把孩子们聚集在一起，看看是谁在洞里撒尿。
Amy, their mom, records a video of the meeting on her phone.
他们的妈妈艾米用手机录制了这次会议的视频。
We had the plumber come again.
我们让水管工又来了。
And two times in just over three weeks, there's been urine backed up in the basement, like pee.
在短短三周多的时间里，有两次尿液积存在地下室里，就像小便一样。
Now--
现在——
In the basement floor?
在地下室？
Bethel Habte That's Ryan, twin number one.
贝瑟尔·哈布特 那是瑞安，双胞胎一号。
They're all sitting on a navy blue sectional.
他们都坐在海军蓝色的组合上。
Todd keeps calmly laying out the facts.
托德一直冷静地陈述事实。
Yes, they think there's pee on the basement floor.
是的，他们认为地下室地板上有小便。
Yeah, in that little recess.
是的，在那个小休息处。
In that little hole in the floor.
在地板上的那个小洞里。
Not me.
不是我。
Bethel Habte The one who just said "not me," that's Hugh, the little one.
贝瑟尔·哈布特 刚才说“不是我”的那个人就是休，那个小家伙。
Lawrence, twin number two, hasn't said anything yet.
双胞胎二号劳伦斯还没有说什么。
He's quiet, with a blank expression on his face.
他很安静，脸上表情茫然。
Then Ryan asks a question.
然后瑞安问了一个问题。
Whenever Macey pees indoors, she always does it in the basement.
每当梅西在室内小便时，她总是在地下室。
He wants to know if it's possible that the dog did it.
他想知道是否有可能是那只狗干的。
So it is entirely possible.
所以这是完全有可能的。
My question to any of you is, have any of you ever gone and just peed in that hole in the basement?
我想问你们中的任何一个人，你们中有人曾经在地下室的那个洞里撒过尿吗？
Because here's the thing-- Bethel Habte That "I promise" there, that's Lawrence, the quiet twin.
因为事情是这样的——贝瑟尔·哈布特（Bethel Habte） 那里的“我保证”，那就是劳伦斯，安静的双胞胎。
He breaks his silence.
他打破了沉默。
So now, all three children have denied peeing in the hole.
所以现在，三个孩子都否认在洞里撒尿。
Their dad tries to explain to the kids, someone peeing in the hole is actually the best possible scenario.
他们的父亲试图向孩子们解释，有人在洞里撒尿实际上是最好的情况。
It would not be good and I would not be happy, but it would be preferable that if someone is doing this, that you're honest because the other explanation is that we have a bad sewage problem that no one can explain.
这不会很好，我也不会高兴，但如果有人这样做，你最好是诚实的，因为另一种解释是我们有一个严重的污水问题，没有人可以解释。
So it's actually better if someone just says, yes, it was me.
所以如果有人直接说，是的，就是我，那实际上会更好。
It was an accident.
这是一次意外。
I did it twice.
我做了两次。
Because then, at least, we're not crazy, and we don't have to have a plumber come again--
因为那样的话，至少我们没有疯，而且我们不需要再请水管工来——
Yeah, because we already spent a lot of money trying to figure out what's going on.
是的，因为我们已经花了很多钱试图弄清楚发生了什么。
--trying to figure out what's going on here.
——试图弄清楚这里发生了什么。
It was me.
是我。
Bethel Habte It was me, Ryan says.
贝塞尔·哈布特 是我，瑞安说。
But then, it turns out, he was just trying to get the interrogation over with.
但事实证明，他只是想结束审讯。
Wait, I didn't pee in there, but can I just say that?
等等，我没有尿在那里，但我可以这么说吗？
No, that doesn't help.
不，那没有帮助。
If you're lying, that doesn't help.
如果你撒谎，那是没有帮助的。
We just want you guys to be honest, OK?
我们只是希望你们诚实，好吗？
Just tell us.
请告诉我们。
OK, let's go one by one.
好，我们一一来说。
Bethel Habte They ask every child again, starting with twin number one, Ryan.
Bethel Habte 他们再次询问每个孩子，从双胞胎第一号瑞安开始。
Have you peed-- Todd Did you honestly-- have you ever peed--
你撒尿了吗——托德 你老实说——你撒尿过吗——
We're talking about now.
我们现在正在谈论。
Todd We're talking-- there was this weekend and three weeks ago.
托德：我们正在谈论——这个周末和三周前。
No, I never peed in it.
不，我从来没有在里面撒过尿。
Amy OK, did you see anybody of your brothers do it?
艾米，好吧，你看到你的兄弟中有人这样做了吗？
OK, next.
好的，接下来。
Bethel Habte Next, Hugh, the youngest.
伯特利·哈布特 接下来是休，最小的。
He's been fidgeting with a rainbow bookmark, fanning himself with it.
他一直摆弄着一个彩虹书签，用它给自己扇风。
Did you see anybody do it?
你看到有人这样做吗？
Hugh I swear.
休我发誓。
No.
不。
Finally, Lawrence, twin number two.
最后是劳伦斯，双胞胎二号。
He answers the question with the directness of a politician caught up in a scandal.
他以一位陷入丑闻的政治家的直接回答了这个问题。
[GIGGLING] Amy OK, the next thing we're going to have is, we're going to go down to the police department because they have a lie detector test.
[咯咯笑]艾米好吧，接下来我们要去警察局，因为他们有测谎仪测试。
Everyone's good?
大家都好吗？
Bethel Habte The twins, Ryan and Lawrence, are in, but Hugh, the little one, lets out a nervous giggle.
伯特尔·哈布特 双胞胎瑞安和劳伦斯都在里面，但小家伙休紧张地咯咯笑起来。
[GIGGLE] Amy So before we go to the police department, can anyone just tell the truth?
[咯咯笑]艾米所以在我们去警察局之前，有人能说实话吗？
Fine!
美好的！
Bethel Habte Hugh shoots his hand in the air.
伯特尔·哈布特·休向空中举起手。
His eyes are wide, and he's smiling.
他的眼睛睁得大大的，他正在微笑。
[LAUGHS] Yes.
[笑]是的。
Yes, I swear.
是的，我发誓。
Amy Are you telling the truth?
艾米你说的是真的吗？
Yes, I actually did.
是的，我确实做到了。
Ryan Did you actually pee?
瑞安 你真的尿尿了吗？
Only once.
只有一次。
Amy Because somebody-- it had to--
艾米因为有人——它必须——
It happened twice.
这种事发生了两次。
Amy It had to have happened more than one time.
艾米 这种事一定发生过不止一次。
OK, then I probably did it, like, three times.
好吧，那我可能就这样做了三遍。
All right, why?
好吧，为什么？
Hugh I don't know.
休我不知道。
Because I needed to go so bad.
因为我需要变得如此糟糕。
And one time, I need to go so bad--
有一次，我需要变得如此糟糕——
Well, why didn't you just go to the bathroom?
那你为什么不直接去洗手间呢？
Because I was like so far away from the bathroom and--
因为我离浴室太远了而且——
Listeners, there is a bathroom in the basement.
听众们，地下室有一间浴室。
There are 25 steps that separate the bathroom from the play area, maybe a few more if your legs are short.
浴室和游乐区之间有 25 级台阶，如果您的腿短，可能还需要更多台阶。
So you peed down that hole-- Amy Three times.
所以你从那个洞里尿了三次——艾米。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
A little bit.
一点点。
Amy We're taking $500 out of your bank account.
艾米 我们将从您的银行帐户中扣除 500 美元。
Well, I don't even have any.
好吧，我什至都没有。
Amy Then you're going to have zero money.
艾米 那么你的钱就为零了。
Just forget it, OK?
忘记它吧，好吗？
Bethel Habte Case closed.
伯特利哈布特案件结案。
Court adjourned.
法庭休庭。
Hugh's mom told me the point of this whole thing was, yes, to solve the crime, but also to bring these kids into the adult world for just a moment, see the situation the way they do.
休的妈妈告诉我，整件事的目的是，是的，解决犯罪问题，但也是为了让这些孩子暂时进入成人世界，以他们的方式看待情况。
But she knows it was probably too much to ask.
但她知道这个要求可能有点太多了。
Kids live in their own world.
孩子们生活在自己的世界里。
It's a world without plumbers who charge $500.
这是一个没有收费 500 美元的水管工的世界。
It's a world where a hole in the ground looks like a perfectly good place to pee.
在这个世界里，地上的一个洞看起来就像是一个完美的撒尿场所。
Well, today's program was produced by Aviva DeKornfeld.
嗯，今天的节目是由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作的。
The people who put together today's show include Bim Adewunmi, Phia Benin, Jendayi Bonds, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Chana Joffe-Walt, Rudy Lee, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Safiyah Riddle, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Phia Benin、Jendayi Bonds、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Chana Joffe-Walt、Rudy Lee、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Safiyah Riddle、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Kate Emmerich, Penelope SS Wong, Jaki Reis, Noah Lanard, Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi, Jameka Brown, and Cathleen Conte.
今天特别感谢 Kate Emmerich、Penelope SS Wong、Jaki Reis、Noah Lanard、Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi、Jameka Brown 和 Cathleen Conte。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 800 多集档案。
Also, there's videos.
另外，还有视频。
There's lists of favorite shows if you're looking for something to listen to.
如果您正在寻找可听的节目，这里有您最喜欢的节目列表。
Lots of other stuff there.
那里还有很多其他东西。
Anyway, thisamericanlife.org.
无论如何，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's confounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的混杂者 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he went on trial this week for stealing 15 pairs of shoes.
你知道，他本周因偷窃 15 双鞋而受审。
His defense, I got to say, was not the strongest.
我不得不说，他的防守并不是最强的。
I didn't even know what 30 feet looked like.
我什至不知道30英尺是什么样子。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
["CRIMINAL MISCHIEF (FOR ADAM WHITE)" BY JIMMY AND THE JAYWALKERS]
[“犯罪恶作剧（献给亚当·怀特）”，作者：《吉米和乱穿马路的人》]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。