824: Family Meeting - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #824 | February 23, 2024 824: Family Meeting Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 824 集 | 2024 年 2 月 23 日 824：家庭会议 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
OK, so listen.
好吧，听着。
Right now, we're going to be a little bit quiet, because--
现在，我们要安静一点，因为——
[CHILD WHINING] --we're going to have a family talk.
[孩子抱怨]——我们要进行一次家庭谈话。
Are you ready for a family talk?
你准备好进行家庭谈话了吗？
Wait, wait, wait, wait, Dad.
等等，等等，等等，爸爸。
Bryan What?
布莱恩 什么？
Bryan LeBaron is dad of a big family, seven kids in all.
布莱恩·勒巴伦 (Bryan LeBaron) 是一个大家庭的父亲，共有七个孩子。
He mostly grew up in the United States, but his father and most of his family is Mexican.
他主要在美国长大，但他的父亲和大部分家庭成员都是墨西哥人。
And he moved back there a few years ago.
几年前他搬回了那里。
Back in November, he gathered everybody together for a family meeting outside on a patio.
早在 11 月份，他就将所有人聚集在一起，在外面的露台上召开了一次家庭会议。
Most of the kids were in a long bench, holding pillows.
大多数孩子坐在长凳上，手里拿着枕头。
Lexie thinks that this is an important moment in our family, and I agree with her.
莱克西认为这是我们家庭的重要时刻，我同意她的观点。
Lexie is Lexie Harrison-Cripps, the journalist that recorded this meeting.
莱克西是记录这次会议的记者莱克西·哈里森-克里普斯。
Because she knew what some of the kids did not know-- that Bryan was planning to run for a seat in Mexico's House of Representatives.
因为她知道一些孩子不知道的事情——布莱恩计划竞选墨西哥众议院席位。
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
Bryan I want to work for the government.
布莱恩，我想为政府工作。
That's what that means.
这就是这个意思。
And since I'm going to be running, it's going to be a lot of work for me, and I'm going to be traveling a lot.
由于我要跑步，这对我来说会是很多工作，而且我会经常旅行。
I'm going to be away from home a lot.
我将会经常离开家。
And when we go places, people are going to want pictures.
当我们去某个地方时，人们会想要照片。
So maybe you're walking with me, and somebody will take a picture of us.
所以也许你和我一起散步，有人会为我们拍张照片。
We don't know how--
我们不知道如何——
We don't know exactly what that's going to be like, right?
我们并不确切知道那会是什么样子，对吧？
But one of the things also is that because of certain things that happened in our family, now there's people in our town that may not want to vote for me.
但其中一件事是，由于我们家里发生的某些事情，现在我们镇上的人可能不想投票给我。
And it might even cause people to want to be mean to our family.
这甚至可能导致人们想要对我们的家人表现出刻薄的态度。
OK?
好的？
And so I wanted to have a talk-- Mom and I wanted to have a talk with you so that you can be ready.
所以我想谈谈——妈妈和我想和你谈谈，这样你就可以做好准备。
Not just ready for the campaign, which is months away, but he's called his family meeting right now, in November, because something's come up that's not only going to affect his candidacy but everyone in the family in the next few days.
他不仅为几个月后的竞选做好了准备，而且现在就在 11 月召开了家庭会议，因为发生的一些事情不仅会影响他的候选资格，还会影响未来几天家庭中的每个人。
What's happened is that Macario, their 17-year-old, has just made a big, public declaration on Instagram, telling the world that he's gay, which in some places would be, like, whatever.
发生的事情是，他们 17 岁的马卡里奥刚刚在 Instagram 上发表了一个重大的公开声明，告诉全世界他是同性恋，这在某些地方可能是，无论如何。
But this family is Mormon, living in a tight-knit fundamentalist community in Mexico.
但这个家庭是摩门教徒，生活在墨西哥一个紧密的原教旨主义社区中。
Macario and the other kids go to a fundamentalist Mormon school that very much disapproves of homosexuality.
马卡里奥和其他孩子就读于一所原教旨主义摩门教学校，该学校非常不赞成同性恋。
Bryan figured kids at school might start saying cruel and hateful stuff to Macario and his brothers and sisters.
布莱恩认为学校里的孩子可能会开始对马卡里奥和他的兄弟姐妹说残酷和仇恨的话。
Already, some classmates were posting pretty awful comments on Instagram.
一些同学已经在 Instagram 上发表了非常糟糕的评论。
Bryan wanted all of his children to be prepared.
布莱恩希望他所有的孩子都做好准备。
OK, guys, so guess what?
好吧，伙计们，你猜怎么着？
You know how a lot of times we always went to church and we always hear about people that are going to date and get married?
你知道有多少次我们总是去教堂，并且总是听到有人要约会并结婚吗？
Three of the kids listening to this are young.
听这个的三个孩子都很年轻。
There's nine-year-old Ahriella, seven-year-old Chanel, and four-year-old Franco.
有九岁的阿丽埃拉、七岁的香奈儿和四岁的弗兰科。
And what that means is that before Bryan can tell them "your brother is gay," he first has to explain "gay," the whole idea of gayness, to these little kids.
这意味着，在布莱恩告诉他们“你的兄弟是同性恋”之前，他首先必须向这些小孩子解释“同性恋”，即同性恋的整个概念。
Chanel, this is more for you and Ahriella, OK?
香奈儿，这更适合你和阿丽拉，好吗？
Have you guys ever heard of the term "gay"?
你们听说过“同性恋”这个词吗？
--like, people that, like, wear necklaces that are meant for girls.
——比如，那些戴着女孩专用项链的人。
So boys that wear necklaces that are for girls?
那么男孩子戴的项链是女孩子的吗？
Good guess, he tells them-- Bryan That's OK.
猜得不错，他告诉他们——布莱恩 没关系。
--and then launches into his explanation.
——然后开始解释。
He keeps it simple.
他保持简单。
But when people say the word "gay," usually it means either two boys that like each other--
但当人们说“同性恋”这个词时，通常指的是两个互相喜欢的男孩——
I knew it.
我知道。
Bryan --and maybe even one day want to get married, or two girls that like each other and that maybe even want to get married.
布莱恩——也许有一天想要结婚，或者两个互相喜欢的女孩甚至可能想要结婚。
And somebody who feels that way, just like I look at Mom and I think she's beautiful, there can be boys that look at other boys and think they're beautiful.
有这种感觉的人，就像我看着妈妈，觉得她很漂亮一样，也可能有男孩看着其他男孩，觉得他们很漂亮。
OK?
好的？
Does that make sense?
这有道理吗？
On to the big reveal.
接下来是大揭露。
Bryan Well, guess what?
布莱恩 好吧，你猜怎么着？
Macario-- he thinks that boys are beautiful, and he thinks that he wants to fall in love with a boy.
马卡里奥——他认为男孩很漂亮，他认为他想爱上一个男孩。
OK?
好的？
And that's what people call "gay."
这就是人们所说的“同性恋”。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Bryan OK?
布莱恩还好吗？
Now, that doesn't mean that something's wrong with Macario.
现在，这并不意味着马卡里奥有问题。
Macario is perfect just the way that he is, and we love him and we're always going to love him.
马卡里奥就他本身而言是完美的，我们爱他，我们将永远爱他。
That's just the name they gave it.
这就是他们给它起的名字。
Why do they call boys "boys" and girls "girls"?
为什么他们称男孩为“男孩”，女孩为“女孩”？
There's just a name for everything.
一切都只有一个名字。
I should say that two years ago, this is not how Bryan would have talked about being gay.
我应该说，两年前，布莱恩不会这样谈论同性恋。
He was raised to believe that it was a choice and sinful.
他从小就相信这是一种选择，而且是有罪的。
When Macario came out to him, Macario explained that he had already tried to pray and fast his way out of being gay, and it was impossible.
当马卡里奥向他出柜时，马卡里奥解释说，他已经尝试通过祈祷和禁食摆脱同性恋身份，但这是不可能的。
And Bryan believed him.
布莱恩相信了他。
He changed how he saw all of it.
他改变了他对这一切的看法。
And as he talks about Macario with the family, Macario is sitting exactly in between his two little sisters as they learn what "gay" means.
当他与家人谈论马卡里奥时，马卡里奥正好坐在他的两个妹妹之间，因为他们正在了解“同性恋”的含义。
He smiles, like a mystery contestant on an old-timey game show whose secret identity was just revealed.
他微笑着，就像老式游戏节目中刚刚揭晓秘密身份的神秘参赛者。
And did your dad tell you, OK, here's what we're going to explain to the kids in this meeting?
你爸爸有没有告诉过你，好吧，这就是我们要在这次会议上向孩子们解释的内容？
Nope.
没有。
It was just, I was going to say I was gay, and it literally-- it was not very planned out.
只是，我想说我是同性恋，但实际上——这并不是经过精心计划的。
This, of course, is Macario.
这当然是马卡里奥。
He says it felt good to hear his dad say all these things in front of everybody.
他说听到他父亲在大家面前说这些话感觉很好。
Next, Bryan explained to the little ones in the family the kids in school might be pretty mean about Macario, and we'll need to be ready.
接下来，布莱恩向家里的孩子们解释说，学校里的孩子可能对马卡里奥很刻薄，我们需要做好准备。
When people say, oh, your brother is gay, he's going to go to the devil, oh, ha, ha--
当人们说，哦，你兄弟是同性恋，他会见鬼去，哦，哈，哈——
I will say-- Bryan That's what people will say--
我会说——布莱恩，人们会这么说——
Well, that what's not true?
那么，这有什么不正确的呢？
That Macario is gay?
马卡里奥是同性恋吗？
So I want you to be ready because little kids can be mean sometimes.
所以我希望你做好准备，因为小孩子有时会很刻薄。
Macario tells them about some of the mean things that kids have said at school.
马卡里奥告诉他们孩子们在学校说过的一些刻薄的话。
There was this one kid.
有这样一个孩子。
Their dad said they can't do anything to legally kick me out of the town, but they can do everything in their power to make it so that I want to leave on my own.
他们的父亲说他们无法采取任何合法措施将我赶出小镇，但他们可以尽一切努力让我想自己离开。
And they just only did that and are doing that because I'm gay.
他们这样做只是因为我是同性恋。
That's the only reason.
这是唯一的原因。
And I know that they're just doing that because they've been told their whole life that I'm a terrible-- that anyone is a terrible person if they're gay.
我知道他们这样做只是因为他们一生都被告知我是一个糟糕的人——如果他们是同性恋，任何人都是一个糟糕的人。
So I mean, I get where they're coming from.
所以我的意思是，我明白他们来自哪里。
But like, when they started just saying shit-- I mean, started saying stuff about our friends-- my friends and the people supporting me and then you guys-- like how that guy said that.
但是，就像，当他们开始说废话时——我的意思是，开始谈论我们的朋友——我的朋友和支持我的人，然后是你们——就像那家伙说的那样。
He was like, no, we can't blame the devil for this.
他说，不，我们不能为此责怪魔鬼。
It's their parents' fault.
这是他们父母的错。
They raised him wrong.
他们养育他的方式不对。
They lived in California, Western culture or whatever.
他们生活在加利福尼亚州、西方文化或其他地方。
When they said that, it just made me so bothered because I'm like, I don't know.
当他们这么说时，这让我很烦恼，因为我想，我不知道。
You can get mad at me and you can think that I'm this or that, but all these people who are supporting me--
你可以生我的气，你可以认为我是这样或那样，但所有这些支持我的人——
So everybody's on the same page, all prepared.
所以每个人都在同一立场上，都做好了准备。
Macario is feeling great about it.
马卡里奥对此感觉很棒。
I think it's time for bed.
我想该睡觉了。
Bryan You got that right.
布莱恩你说得对。
OK.
好的。
I want a hug.
我想要一个拥抱。
And when they go to school after this prep, none of the things that Bryan prepared them for happened.
当他们在准备结束后去学校时，布莱恩为他们准备的事情没有发生。
The school made a rule that nobody could talk about Macario.
学校规定任何人都不能谈论马卡里奥。
Overall, most of the Mormon community continued to treat Macario like they always had.
总体而言，大多数摩门教社区继续像往常一样对待马卡里奥。
All this was a little sad for nine-year-old Ahriella, who marched into school ready to tussle, to defend her beloved brother after the family meeting.
这一切对于九岁的阿丽埃拉来说有点悲伤，她走进学校，准备在家庭会议后为捍卫她心爱的弟弟而打架。
She said, well, I walked into class and I just said, hi, everybody, how's it going?
她说，好吧，我走进教室，我只是说，嗨，大家好，怎么样？
Anything new happen yesterday?
昨天有什么新的事情发生吗？
And they're like, no. And so she said, well, how about the day before?
他们说，不。所以她说，好吧，前一天怎么样？
No, nothing new.
不，没什么新意。
And she said, hmm, OK.
她说，嗯，好吧。
(LAUGHING) So she just went about her day.
（笑）所以她就这样度过了自己的一天。
So I don't know.
所以我不知道。
It didn't seem to phase the younger kids at school.
它似乎并没有让年幼的孩子在学校分阶段。
It was more Macario's classmates.
更多的是马卡里奥的同学。
I think the teenagers just maybe shocked by it and not understanding exactly what to think.
我认为青少年可能只是对此感到震惊，并且不明白到底在想什么。
In fact, some teenagers set off a pretty frightening array of firecrackers at their house and threw rocks wrapped in pieces of paper with Macario's name written on them, which was scary.
事实上，一些青少年在家里放了一系列相当可怕的鞭炮，并扔了用纸包着的石头，上面写着马卡里奥的名字，这很吓人。
Kids and adults posted comments online, like "Macario should find a tall tree and a rope, should die." Bryan and his wife Lindi took all the kids out of the Mormon school.
孩子们和成年人在网上发表评论，比如“马卡里奥应该找到一棵高树和一根绳子，应该死。”布莱恩和他的妻子琳迪把所有的孩子都带出了摩门教学校。
But the family had been prepped.
但一家人已经做好了准备。
They understood that people might get mad about Macario.
他们明白人们可能会对马卡里奥感到生气。
And inside the family, the family meeting set the tone.
而在家庭内部，家庭会议定下了基调。
It was a preemptive strike that made Macario's gayness a non-issue, a non-negotiable fact.
这是一次先发制人的打击，使马卡里奥的同性恋不再成为问题，成为不容谈判的事实。
They really have had little-- not many questions since then.
从那时起，他们确实没有什么问题——没有太多问题。
It seemed to really not phase them at all.
看来真的根本没有对他们进行相位调整。
It was just, OK, you know, that's cool.
只是，好吧，你知道，那很酷。
What are we going to do tomorrow?
明天我们要做什么？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Can we have a snack?
我们可以吃点零食吗？
Is there ice cream?
有冰淇淋吗？
That's it, exactly.
正是这样。
Ira Glass Well, today on our program, the power of a family meeting to drop some news-- like your brother's gay-- or the classic one people remember, I guess-- we're getting a divorce.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：嗯，今天在我们的节目中，家庭会议的力量在于发布一些消息——比如你兄弟是同性恋——或者我猜人们记得的经典消息——我们要离婚。
And then there are the administrative family meetings where parents announce some changes in how we do the dishes around here or take out the garbage or whatever, and everybody's going to be doing their fair share.
然后是行政家庭会议，家长们宣布对我们洗碗、倒垃圾或其他什么方式进行一些改变，每个人都会尽自己的一份力量。
What a family meeting can and cannot accomplish, especially in families where the kids do not want to go with the parents' plan, that's our show today.
家庭会议可以完成什么，不能完成什么，特别是在孩子们不愿意遵循父母计划的家庭中，这就是我们今天的节目。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act 1-- A Slow Decision Process That's Mostly But Maybe Not Completely Over.
第一幕——一个缓慢的决策过程，大部分但可能还没有完全结束。
Sometimes when there's a family decision, the family can keep talking about it for months, on and off-- in the car, at meals, whenever-- with everybody weighing in with different points of view.
有时，当家庭做出决定时，家人可以断断续续地讨论几个月，无论是在车上、吃饭时还是任何时候，每个人都可以发表不同的观点。
Over the last few months, I've been talking to the parents in one family like that.
在过去的几个月里，我一直在和这样一个家庭的父母交谈。
Back when I first chatted with them in December, I asked the dad in the family how often the topic comes up.
当我十二月份第一次和他们聊天时，我问家里的爸爸这个话题多久出现一次。
We are talking about that almost in each minute of the day.
我们几乎每时每刻都在谈论这个问题。
Even right now, before you called, we were talking about what we're going to do.
即使现在，在你打电话之前，我们也在讨论我们要做什么。
This is Lotan Pinyan.
这是Lotan Pinyan。
What he's talking about with his wife Michal is, where are they going to live next?
他和妻子米哈尔谈论的是，他们下一步要住在哪里？
They're a youngish couple in Israel with three kids-- 9, 11, and 13 at the time of this conversation.
他们是以色列的一对年轻夫妇，有三个孩子——谈话时分别为 9 岁、11 岁和 13 岁。
Both educators, he's head of development, building a school and a campus for Bedouins, nomadic Arab tribes.
他既是教育工作者，也是发展主管，为阿拉伯游牧部落贝都因人建造一所学校和一个校园。
And Michal--
还有米哈尔——
No, she's a doctor of education.
不，她是一名教育博士。
OK?
好的？
She's a doctor of education.
她是一名教育学博士。
Lotan, why do you feel like you have to jump in and say that?
Lotan，你为什么觉得你必须跳出来说这句话？
Because we can end the conversation without you to know that she's really a doctor.
因为我们可以在你不知道她真的是一名医生的情况下结束谈话。
Lotan is, perhaps you can tell, somebody who's always quick to speak his mind, sure of what he thinks.
或许你可以看出，洛坦是一个总是能很快说出自己想法的人，并且确信自己的想法。
Michal's more deliberative.
迈克尔更加深思熟虑。
They used to live in a kibbutz in Israel, Kibbutz Be'eri on the border with Gaza.
他们曾经住在以色列的基布兹，位于加沙边境的贝埃里基布兹。
When Hamas crossed that border on October 7, like so many families, they hid in the safe room in their house.
当哈马斯于 10 月 7 日越过边界时，像许多家庭一样，他们躲在家里的安全室里。
Dozens of their neighbors were killed, more at Be'eri than at any kibbutz that day-- 1 in 10 people, including Michal's parents.
当天，贝埃里的数十名邻居被杀，比任何基布兹的受害者都多——十分之一的人被杀，其中包括米哈尔的父母。
And when it was over, they and most everyone else from the kibbutz were relocated to a tourist hotel by the Dead Sea, an hour-and-a-half drive from their old home in the Gaza border.
一切结束后，他们和基布兹的大多数人都被搬迁到死海旁的一家旅游酒店，距离他们在加沙边境的老家有一个半小时的车程。
The whole kibbutz is here.
整个基布兹都在这里。
The hotel is closed just for our kibbutz.
酒店仅因我们的基布兹而关闭。
There's no guests from outside.
外面没有客人。
We are talking about something like 1,000 people inside this hotel.
我们正在谈论这家酒店内大约有 1,000 人。
You have a lot of discussions just in the lobby.
就在大厅里你们就有很多讨论。
Discussions about where they're all going to live next.
讨论他们接下来要住在哪里。
In December when we first talked, it was just two months after the attack.
我们第一次谈话是在十二月，当时距袭击事件仅两个月。
And each family had to decide, would they stay with the community?
每个家庭都必须决定，他们会留在社区吗？
Would they ever want to return to the kibbutz where they'd just gone through this traumatic assault?
他们是否愿意回到刚刚经历过这次惨痛袭击的基布兹？
It's 1,000 people.
有 1,000 人。
You have a lot of ideas.
你有很多想法。
You have those people who want to stay together wherever the kibbutz will go, and those who say no.
无论基布兹走到哪里，有些人想呆在一起，有些人则拒绝。
Lots of people, especially the older people, were sure they wanted to go back and rebuild.
许多人，尤其是老年人，确信他们想回去重建。
People with kids were all over the place.
到处都是带着孩子的人。
And leaving a kibbutz, quitting kibbutz life, is a big deal.
离开基布兹，退出基布兹生活，是一件大事。
A kibbutz is a special kind of tight-knit community.
基布兹是一种特殊的紧密联系的社区。
Kibbutzim were originally set up as collective farms on socialist principles, and Be'eri is still run on the old-school socialist ideals most kibbutzim in Israel have abandoned.
基布兹最初是按照社会主义原则建立的集体农场，而贝埃里仍然遵循大多数以色列基布兹已经放弃的旧派社会主义理想。
For example, as a member of the kibbutz, you turn over every cent that you earn at your job, your entire paycheck, to the collective.
例如，作为基布兹的一员，你将工作中赚到的每一分钱、全部薪水都交给集体。
But the kibbutz gives us everything we need.
但基布兹给了我们所需的一切。
And that means everything.
这意味着一切。
They give you a house to live in, cars to drive, full health care, a gym and a swimming pool, and a dining hall, if you don't want to cook, and spending money for necessities but also for fun stuff like family vacations, to cover your kids' school and college.
他们为你提供房子住、汽车开、全面的医疗保健、健身房和游泳池，如果你不想做饭，还可以提供餐厅，并花钱购买生活必需品，还可以购买家庭度假等有趣的事情，以支付孩子的学校和大学费用。
Children spend all day every day with other kids their age.
孩子们每天都与同龄的其他孩子一起度过。
It's a great way to raise kids.
这是抚养孩子的好方法。
They can roam around.
他们可以四处闲逛。
Michal describes what's so nice about kibbutz life this way.
米哈尔这样描述基布兹生活的美妙之处。
You don't have any worries-- you know, mortgage or payments.
你没有任何担忧——你知道，抵押贷款或付款。
And you have a very strong community that makes you feel you belong to something big.
而且你有一个非常强大的社区，让你感觉自己属于某个伟大的事物。
Michal grew up this way on this kibbutz and loved it.
米哈尔就是这样在这个基布兹长大的，他很喜欢这里。
Lotan moved to Be'eri with her when they first got together.
当他们第一次在一起时，洛坦和她一起搬到了贝埃里。
He chafed at some of the rules at first, but got used to life in this big extended family.
起初他对一些规则感到恼火，但后来习惯了这个大家庭的生活。
Now, after October 7, here he was with all of them at this hotel, figuring out what to do next.
现在，10 月 7 日之后，他和所有人一起在这家酒店，思考下一步该做什么。
And you know, it's a hotel.
你知道，这是一家酒店。
It's a nice place for three days of vacation, but it's not a way of living.
这是一个三天假期的好地方，但这不是一种生活方式。
You know, to see the smallest one go to sleep at something like midnight and--
你知道，看到最小的孩子在午夜时分入睡，然后——
Michal and Lotan were in one hotel room.
米哈尔和洛坦住在一间酒店房间里。
The three kids were cooped up in another, getting on each other's nerves and into each other's hair.
三个孩子被关在另一个房间里，让彼此心烦意乱，互相纠缠着对方的头发。
It's hard to be a family in that scattered situation.
在这种分散的情况下，一家人很难在一起。
It was hard to supervise the kids.
监督孩子们很困难。
They were gone all day at work.
他们一整天都去上班了。
Michal now had a 90-minute commute each way to and from her job.
现在，Michal 往返工作地点的通勤时间为 90 分钟。
There was school for the kids, but it was a makeshift thing the kibbutz organized, not real school.
孩子们有学校，但那是基布兹临时组织的，而不是真正的学校。
It's more like babysitting.
这更像是保姆。
Michal The challenge-- the big challenge is for the older children.
Michal 挑战——对于年龄较大的孩子来说，这是一个巨大的挑战。
They don't want to go.
他们不想去。
After just a few weeks of this, Lotan started to think, this is not good for our children.
仅仅几周后，洛坦开始思考，这对我们的孩子不好。
Maybe we need to get out of here, leave the hotel, leave our friends and family behind.
也许我们需要离开这里，离开酒店，离开我们的朋友和家人。
I realized that we're going to be stuck here in the Dead Sea for something like six, seven months.
我意识到我们将被困在死海大约六七个月。
It's not a home.
这不是一个家。
Let's do something else.
让我们做点别的事吧。
Let's heal our family.
让我们治愈我们的家人吧。
Lotan was pushing to look for another place.
洛坦正在努力寻找另一个地方。
Michal was not into this idea at all, of moving away from the hotel, from the other kibbutz members.
米哈尔根本不喜欢离开酒店、离开基布兹其他成员的想法。
I understood why he wants to leave, but it was hard for me to leave the people I grew up with.
我理解他为什么要离开，但我很难离开那些和我一起长大的人。
These are the people I know all my life.
这些是我一生都认识的人。
So it was hard for me to understand that I'm leaving them.
所以我很难理解我要离开他们。
For me, I need to get used to the idea.
对我来说，我需要习惯这个想法。
I need time.
我需要时间。
That's the process with our relationship.
这就是我们关系的过程。
He's fast-forward.
他的速度很快。
[LAUGHS] He's-- he adjusts very quickly.
[笑]他调整得非常快。
If I'm deciding something, after I do my own thinking--
如果我决定一件事，在我自己思考之后——
He's very quick.
他速度很快。
Lotan --I move forward.
洛坦——我向前迈进。
And I'm a slower person.
而且我是一个比较慢的人。
[LAUGHS] I need time to do things, you know?
[笑]我需要时间做事，你知道吗？
Yeah.
是的。
So they had to decide if they would move out of the hotel.
所以他们必须决定是否搬出酒店。
But there was a bigger question they were going to have to face someday.
但有一天他们将不得不面对一个更大的问题。
Should they move back to their kibbutz near the Gaza border?
他们应该搬回加沙边境附近的基布兹吗？
Like, ever?
就像，曾经吗？
At this point, it's unclear how long the war will drag on.
目前尚不清楚战争会持续多久。
Over 1,600 Israelis have died, according to the Israeli military, and over 29,000 Palestinians, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health.
据以色列军方称，已有超过 1,600 名以色列人死亡，据加沙卫生部称，有超过 29,000 名巴勒斯坦人死亡。
Other kibbutzniks-- kibbutz members-- told me that they would only move back if somehow there were peace at the border.
其他基布兹尼克——基布兹成员——告诉我，只有在边境实现和平的情况下，他们才会搬回来。
Or, you know, some conceivable path to some peace plan that would seem fair for the Palestinians so the kibbutzniks wouldn't have to worry about future attacks coming across the border, which, in a practical way, probably means they won't be moving back any time soon.
或者，你知道，一些可以想象的和平计划的路径对巴勒斯坦人来说似乎是公平的，这样基布兹尼克就不必担心未来跨越边界的袭击，这实际上可能意味着他们不会很快撤退。
Michal and Lotan try to imagine what it would take for them to return.
米哈尔和洛坦试图想象他们需要什么才能回来。
You know, Lotan was asking me a few days ago, do you want to go to our home?
你知道吗，洛坦前几天问我，你想去我们家吗？
Can you go back to this house?
你能回到这个房子吗？
Do you want to go back to a graveyard that 92 of your kibbutz members, including your father and mother, murdered there?
你想回到你的基布兹92名成员（包括你的父亲和母亲）被谋杀的墓地吗？
Do you want to go back?
你想回去吗？
You're going to cross the places that you know what happened there.
你将穿越那些你知道那里发生过什么的地方。
The stories will come out in front of your eyes.
这些故事将会呈现在你的眼前。
It's a question.
这是一个问题。
OK, so feel free to say as much or as little about this as you want.
好的，您可以随意多说或少说。
I'd like to ask you just a little bit about what happened with your family on October 7, just so people understand what it is you'd be going back to.
我想问你一些关于 10 月 7 日你家人发生的事情，以便人们了解你会回去做什么。
At 6:30 AM, we had unnormal, unusual, massive missiles attack.
早上 6 点 30 分，我们遭遇了不正常、不寻常的大规模导弹袭击。
And when I say unusual, it's not normal to have even one missile.
当我说不寻常时，即使拥有一枚导弹也是不正常的。
But that was really a massive attack, so we ran to the safe room, closed the door.
但这确实是一次大规模的攻击，所以我们跑到安全室，关上了门。
And the first thought I had is, OK, it's 6:30 AM.
我的第一个想法是，好吧，现在是早上 6:30。
We probably will not go back to sleep.
我们可能不会再回去睡觉了。
Let's turn on the coffee machine.
让我们打开咖啡机。
For decades, safe rooms have been required in all new Israeli homes, reinforced to withstand rocket attacks.
几十年来，以色列所有新建住宅都需要安全室，并进行加固以抵御火箭袭击。
Soon, Michal and Lotan see on the kibbutz WhatsApp group that attackers have made it inside the kibbutz.
很快，米哈尔和洛坦在基布兹 WhatsApp 群组中看到袭击者已进入基布兹。
But they assume it's small, maybe 5 or 10 fighters, and they assume the army will be there soon.
但他们认为规模很小，可能有 5 或 10 名战士，而且他们认为军队很快就会到达那里。
But minutes after that, when everyone was saying they are here, they are there, they are shooting at my house, they are throwing grenades, and you know everyone was leaving, you understand that they are spread all over the kibbutz.
但几分钟后，当每个人都说他们在这里，他们在那里，他们向我的房子开枪，他们扔手榴弹，你知道每个人都离开了，你知道他们遍布整个基布兹。
And then, just close the door and try to find ropes and things like that in order to tight the handle of the door because people were trying to-- were starting to write that they are seeking to open the safe room and taking people outside and shoot them.
然后，关上门，尝试找到绳索之类的东西，以便拉紧门把手，因为人们试图——我们开始写下他们正在寻求打开安全室，并将人们带到外面并向他们开枪。
We should explain that the safe rooms are designed for missiles coming in, not for people coming in trying to break into the safe room, so they don't lock from the inside.
我们应该解释一下，安全室是为导弹进入而设计的，而不是为试图闯入安全室的人设计的，所以它们不会从里面锁上。
Exactly.
确切地。
Lotan Exactly because that's one huge part of our family story.
Lotan 正是因为这是我们家庭故事的重要组成部分。
Because something like 9:15, Michal's mother was writing us on the WhatsApp, there are terrorists near our house, and then there are terrorists inside the house.
因为大约 9 点 15 分，Michal 的母亲在 WhatsApp 上给我们写信，我们家附近有恐怖分子，然后房子里就有恐怖分子。
They are throwing grenades.
他们正在投掷手榴弹。
They are shooting through the safe room door.
他们正在通过安全室的门射击。
And--
还有——
We didn't understand that my dad was shot while sitting in the safe room.
我们不明白我父亲坐在安全室里时被枪杀。
The bullets penetrate the door, and he was wounded while sitting in the safe room.
子弹穿过门，他坐在安全室里受伤。
Michal's brother Yuval talked to their mom then.
米哈尔（Michal）的兄弟尤瓦尔（Yuval）当时与他们的妈妈交谈。
He was telling her, Mom, be strong.
他告诉她，妈妈，要坚强。
Keep the door tight.
把门关紧。
The army is on its way.
军队正在赶来的路上。
He was lying.
他在撒谎。
There is no army at the kibbutz.
基布兹没有军队。
But she-- that she was a really strong, realistic woman.
但她——她是一个非常坚强、现实的女人。
She was saying to him, no, Yuval, I think this is the last time we're going to talk.
她对他说，不，尤瓦尔，我想这是我们最后一次谈话。
Please tell everybody that we love them.
请告诉大家我们爱他们。
The last messages on WhatsApp have Michal and her brothers saying, "Mom, keep writing all the time.
WhatsApp 上的最后一条消息让米哈尔和她的兄弟们说：“妈妈，请继续写作。
What's happening with you?
你怎么了？
Mom, answer." Their mom says, "Dad was shot, and they're throwing grenades.
妈妈，回答吧。”他们的妈妈说：“爸爸被枪杀了，他们正在投掷手榴弹。
They blew up the safe room."
他们炸毁了安全室。”
And at 10:04, she was writing on the WhatsApp, "help, help," twice, and that's the last word we have.
10:04，她在 WhatsApp 上写了两次“救命，救命”，这是我们得到的最后一句话。
And now, imagine that we are sitting in our safe room, one-minute walk in from them, can do nothing, and realize that we don't have any more mom or dad for Michal, grandfather and grandmother for our children.
现在，想象一下我们坐在安全室里，距离他们只有一分钟的步行路程，无能为力，并意识到我们不再有米哈尔的妈妈或爸爸，我们的孩子不再有祖父和祖母。
Do you tell the children?
你告诉孩子们吗？
Michal Yes, they heard.
米哈尔 是的，他们听到了。
They knew.
他们知道。
They kept asking, what about Grandpa and Grandma?
他们不断地问，爷爷、奶奶呢？
And the only answer I had was, I don't know.
我唯一的答案是，我不知道。
I didn't want to say something that is not true.
我不想说一些不真实的话。
So I just told them that I don't know.
所以我就告诉他们我不知道。
It's hard to hear that-- I don't know.
很难听到这个——我不知道。
Lotan says at this point they realized they needed to do anything they could think of to keep their kids alive.
洛坦说，此时他们意识到他们需要做任何他们能想到的事情来让孩子们活下去。
But what I had only is a baseball bat, a dog that probably would got killed the first time they're going to go, and they were hanging under our house.
但我只有一根棒球棒，一条狗，他们第一次去的时候可能会被杀，而且它们挂在我们的房子下面。
They-- Hamas fighters-- seemed like they were using the storage space downstairs as a small base, keeping weapons there.
他们——哈马斯战士——似乎把楼下的储藏室当作一个小基地，在那里存放武器。
The family heard explosions and gunfire.
家人听到爆炸声和枪声。
The youngest, the boy again, is nine years old.
最小的，又是男孩，九岁。
And my son, in a terrified way, told us, Dad, Dad, I don't want to die here.
我的儿子惊恐地告诉我们，爸爸，爸爸，我不想死在这里。
And we look at him and told everyone, no, no one is going to die here.
我们看着他，告诉所有人，不，没有人会死在这里。
We have the dog, the baseball bat, and we are in the second floor.
我们有狗、棒球棒，而且我们在二楼。
That's our fortress.
那是我们的堡垒。
And you, all of you, are now going to write what you're going to take when we're going to be outside, when they're going to rescue us.
你们，你们所有人，现在要写下当我们要到外面去，当他们要营救我们的时候，你们要带什么。
And they made a list.
他们列了一个清单。
And they waited, from the morning all through the afternoon and into the night, trying not to make any noise at all.
他们从早上一直等到下午，一直等到晚上，尽量不发出任何声音。
They had no food, no water.
他们没有食物，没有水。
If someone had to pee, they did it in a wastebasket while everybody looked away.
如果有人要小便，他们会在垃圾桶里尿尿，而每个人都会把目光移开。
They were there for 19 hours with their kids.
他们和孩子们在那里待了 19 个小时。
We did nothing.
我们什么也没做。
Lotan They watched me and woke me up if I was falling asleep because I was handling the handle of the door with a baseball bat and what I ever did to tight the door with ropes and things like that.
洛坦 他们看着我，如果我睡着了，他们就会叫醒我，因为我用棒球棒握住门把手，并且用绳子之类的东西把门锁紧。
They heard the shooting or the explosion or anything like that, they just were silenced.
他们听到了枪声、爆炸声或类似的声音，然后就安静了。
They were amazing.
他们太棒了。
They understand the situation.
他们了解情况。
Finally, the army came at midnight and rescued them.
最后，军队在半夜赶到，将他们救了出来。
When they got to the hotel the next day, of course the kids couldn't just shake this off.
第二天到达酒店时，孩子们当然无法摆脱这一切。
Their son, the nine-year-old, had had a full day of whispering in the safe room.
他们九岁的儿子在安全室里窃窃私语了一整天。
He's the most, I think, the fragile one.
我认为他是最脆弱的一个。
And he kept whispering three days after that in the hotel.
三天后，他在酒店里一直窃窃私语。
And we just brought him his drums and his LEGO, and he started to live again, so it's OK.
我们刚给他带来了他的鼓和乐高积木，他又开始生活了，所以没关系。
So could they ever go back and live at Be'eri?
那么他们还能回去住在贝埃里吗？
Two or three weeks after the attack, Michal went home again, the first time, to the kibbutz to see what it was like.
袭击发生两三周后，米哈尔再次回家，这是第一次，去基布兹看看情况如何。
Going back was very hard for me.
回去对我来说非常困难。
When I was there, I just shut myself.
当我在那里的时候，我只是把自己封闭起来。
So I just saw everything, but I was very-- how do you say this word?
所以我看到了一切，但我非常……这个词怎么说？
I don't know.
我不知道。
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
[非英语演讲]
I was there for, like, 10 minutes.
我在那儿待了大约 10 分钟。
I took some stuff that my daughter asked.
我拿了一些女儿要求的东西。
And just, I couldn't stand-- it's not my home.
只是，我无法忍受——这不是我的家。
It was so messy and dirty.
真是又乱又脏。
And I couldn't stay there, so--
我不能留在那里，所以——
That's interesting.
这很有趣。
It didn't even seem like your home.
它甚至不像你的家。
It just seemed like some other place?
它只是看起来像其他地方？
No. No. It's not mine.
不，不，这不是我的。
Ira Glass Other people I talked to who returned to their kibbutzim told me that walking into their homes was like everything was frozen from when they ran out, like it was still October 7.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 与我交谈过的其他返回基布兹的人告诉我，走进他们的家时，一切就像他们跑出去时一样冻结了，就像现在还是 10 月 7 日一样。
One woman said she felt like she was watching herself in a movie.
一位女士说她感觉自己就像在看电影一样。
She felt so distanced from it.
她感觉自己离这个地方很遥远。
One man told me he tries to go back once a week to try to absorb what's happened.
一名男子告诉我，他尝试每周回去一次，试图吸收所发生的事情。
I couldn't even sit on my sofa.
我什至不能坐在沙发上。
I was there just for 10 minutes.
我在那里只待了 10 分钟。
I couldn't stay in the house.
我不能呆在房子里。
So when you think about going back there, what do you think?
那么当你考虑回到那里时，你会怎么想？
Going back there to try to live there, how would that work?
回到那里尝试在那里生活，效果怎么样？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That's the big question.
这是个大问题。
Some days, I'm telling to myself, yes, I want to go back.
有时候，我对自己说，是的，我想回去。
And some days, I'm telling, what are you thinking about?
我告诉你，有些日子你在想什么？
This is not a place to live.
这不是一个住的地方。
It's a graveyard.
这是一个墓地。
No. No, no. It's still not-- it's not a decision I can make now.
不，不，不。这仍然不是——这不是我现在可以做出的决定。
I need more time.
我需要更多时间。
So she went back to the hotel.
于是她就回酒店了。
Where they still had to decide, where would they live right now?
他们仍然需要决定，他们现在住在哪里？
Should they leave the hotel and set out on their own in the short run?
他们是否应该在短期内离开酒店自行出发？
By early November, Lotan definitely wanted to leave.
到了11月初，洛坦确实想离开了。
Michal did not.
米哈尔没有。
And then she saw how badly their oldest daughter, Aya, was doing.
然后她看到他们的大女儿艾雅的情况有多糟糕。
Again, Aya's 13.
再说一次，阿雅13岁了。
And in the weeks after October 7, she was the person in the family struggling the most.
10月7日之后的几周里，她是家里最困难的人。
She was skipping school every day and tried to hide it from them.
她每天都逃学，并试图向他们隐瞒。
She just stayed in her room all day, doing nothing.
她整天呆在自己的房间里，什么也不做。
This was completely unlike her, Michal says.
米哈尔说，这完全不像她。
Before October 7, she loved going to school, went happily, never missed a day.
10月7日之前，她很喜欢上学，开开心心地上学，没有缺过一天。
She was an athlete, came home from volleyball at 7:00 three nights a week.
她是一名运动员，每周有三个晚上 7:00 打完排球回家。
At night, she would hang with her friends.
晚上，她会和朋友们一起出去玩。
She was busy.
她很忙。
To see her going to sleep very late at night and wanting to sleep late in the morning-- everything she had is not-- it's not happening.
看到她晚上睡得很晚，早上想睡得很晚——她所拥有的一切都不是——这没有发生。
No school, no learning, no volleyball.
没有学校，没有学习，没有排球。
The only thing that's left is her friends, which are confused as she is.
唯一剩下的就是她的朋友们，他们和她一样困惑。
So they're going around with no purpose.
所以他们就这样漫无目的的走来走去。
And this is what bothers us the most, that there is no purpose for them here.
这是最让我们烦恼的，他们在这里没有任何目的。
They need something to wake up for in the morning.
他们早上需要一些东西来醒来。
And over here, it's too much pain and too much dark.
而这里，有太多的痛苦和太多的黑暗。
Seeing Aya like this, that's what convinced Michal that Lotan was right.
看到艾雅这个样子，米哈尔就相信洛坦是对的。
They needed to get away from the hotel.
他们需要离开酒店。
Their kids needed that.
他们的孩子需要这个。
But where to go?
但去哪里呢？
Now, as they were talking about this as a couple, members of the kibbutz were in a much bigger conversation about leaving the hotel as a group.
现在，当他们作为夫妻谈论这件事时，基布兹的成员正在就集体离开酒店进行更大的讨论。
There was so much damage to their kibbutz, so many homes and buildings set on fire, burned to the ground, bombed, hit with grenades and bullets.
他们的基布兹遭受了如此严重的破坏，许多房屋和建筑物被焚烧、烧毁、轰炸、手榴弹和子弹击中。
It would take two or three years to rebuild before they could move back.
重建需要两三年的时间，他们才能搬回来。
So they were looking at temporary places that the whole group could relocate to while that happened.
因此，他们正在寻找临时地点，以便整个团队在发生这种情况时可以搬迁到那里。
Lotan was one of the kibbutz leaders figuring out where they should go.
洛坦是基布兹领导人之一，正在思考他们应该去哪里。
The choice came down to two locations, and Lotan had decided that wanted to go to a peaceful village called Kedma.
选择归结为两个地点，洛坦决定去一个名叫凯德玛的宁静村庄。
The idea is, everybody could move there and heal, figure out in a few years whether they will move back to Be'eri or not.
这个想法是，每个人都可以搬到那里并治愈，几年后弄清楚他们是否会搬回贝埃里。
The vote was November 22.
投票日期为11月22日。
Lotan's side lost by 40 votes.
洛坦队以 40 票之差落败。
And the place the kibbutz chose-- in Hatzerim, near a big airbase-- that was a place that he and Michal did not want to live.
而基布兹选择的地方——哈泽里姆，靠近一个大型空军基地——那是他和米哈尔不想居住的地方。
I knew already.
我已经知道了。
I knew for sure that she's thinking the same.
我确信她也有同样的想法。
Yeah.
是的。
I remember he told me, I'm not moving to Hatzerim.
我记得他告诉我，我不会搬到哈泽里姆。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
And that decided it.
这就决定了。
They were not going to stay with the kibbutz.
他们不会留在基布兹。
They'd strike out on their own.
他们会自己出击。
So they talked to their kids about this plan.
所以他们和孩子们谈论了这个计划。
Aya hated it.
阿雅讨厌它。
She didn't want to speak with me for this story, but her parents say she was angry.
她不想和我谈论这个故事，但她的父母说她很生气。
One thing she still had from her old life was her friends, who had just gone through this trauma together-- were still going through it, in a way.
她从过去的生活中仍然拥有的一件事是她的朋友们，他们刚刚一起经历了这次创伤——在某种程度上，他们仍然在经历它。
You know, she had two friends that were kidnapped, and they returned from Gaza Strip.
你知道，她有两个朋友被绑架，他们是从加沙地带回来的。
And she has also one friend that was severely wounded and lost her mother and a brother.
她还有一个朋友受了重伤，失去了母亲和兄弟。
So--
所以——
And what did she say to you when she was angry about it?
当她生气的时候她对你说了什么？
What was she saying?
她说什么？
She was shouting why we have to take her apart of her friends and that we're not thinking about her.
她大喊为什么我们要把她和她的朋友分开，而且我们没有考虑她。
It was hard to hear.
很难听清。
You know, when you live in the kibbutz, the friends are the most important thing.
要知道，当你住在基布兹时，朋友是最重要的。
I don't know how to express this in words.
我不知道如何用语言来表达这一点。
But we have this connection that you cannot find anywhere else because we grew up together.
但我们之间的联系是在其他地方找不到的，因为我们一起长大。
We did everything together.
我们一起做所有事情。
We hang out in the morning, in the afternoon.
我们早上出去玩，下午出去玩。
We slept together.
我们睡在一起。
We ate together.
我们一起吃饭。
We studied together.
我们一起学习。
We did everything together.
我们一起做所有事情。
And this is what she has right now, and she's going to lose it.
这就是她现在所拥有的，她也将失去它。
I understand why she's angry.
我明白她为什么生气。
I understand.
我明白。
But I don't want that death will be so present in every way.
但我不希望死亡以各种方式出现。
Their two other kids were good with the idea of them leaving the hotel.
他们的另外两个孩子对他们离开酒店的想法很满意。
The littlest told them, we can live in a car as long as we're together.
最小的告诉他们，只要我们在一起，我们就可以住在车里。
It's fine.
没关系。
But with Aya, she came back to it over and over.
但对于阿雅来说，她一遍又一遍地想起这个问题。
It happens all the time.
这种事经常发生。
Michal It's every day.
米哈尔 每天都是这样。
Are you sure you want to go?
您确定要去吗？
Are you sure you're not going to stay?
你确定你不留下来吗？
Michal explained to Aya that since they really might never move back to Be'eri, it didn't make sense to move to the temporary location with her friends right now and then split with them in three years and start over again.
米哈尔向阿雅解释说，既然他们真的可能永远不会搬回贝埃里，所以现在和她的朋友一起搬到临时住所，然后在三年后与他们分手并重新开始是没有意义的。
Easier to leave now, at an age when she can make new friends.
现在离开更容易了，因为她已经到了可以结交新朋友的年纪了。
She told Aya that she would drive her back to see her old friends any time she wants.
她告诉阿雅，只要她愿意，她就会开车送她回去看望她的老朋友。
But there are certain things she didn't say to Aya.
但有些事情她没有对阿雅说。
I didn't tell her that I don't want to live in a place that mourning is going to be a big part of everything.
我没有告诉她我不想生活在一个哀悼将成为一切的重要组成部分的地方。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Michal I don't know.
米哈尔我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Do you not want to say that to her because you're scared it'll affect how she sees her friends and their life back in the kibbutz?
你不想对她说这些吗，因为你担心这会影响她如何看待她的朋友以及他们在基布兹的生活？
Yes.
是的。
You know, just yesterday they told us that Yossi, her best friend's father, were murdered in captivity.
你知道，就在昨天，他们告诉我们，她最好朋友的父亲约西在囚禁期间被谋杀。
So it's going to happen all the time.
所以它会一直发生。
That conversation was in January.
那次谈话是在一月份。
They were still in the hotel.
他们还在酒店里。
The plan was to move February 1 to a house near a city called Kiryat Gat, maybe a half-hour drive from the border.
计划是在 2 月 1 日搬到一个叫 Kiryat Gat 的城市附近的房子，距离边境可能有半小时车程。
And it's at this point the family got a lucky break-- something they didn't expect.
就在这个时候，这个家庭得到了幸运的突破——这是他们没有预料到的。
And the school she's going to go to, there is friends that she knows from our area that moved to the same place.
她要去的学校，她认识的一些朋友从我们地区搬到了同一个地方。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
That's really, really fortunate.
这实在是太幸运了。
Yes.
是的。
So it makes her heart more calm.
所以这让她的心更加平静。
And these are kids that she knows and she's friends of, not from Be'eri exactly, but just from our area.
这些孩子是她认识的，也是她的朋友，不完全是来自贝埃里，而是来自我们地区。
So she's not opposite anymore, as she used to.
所以她不再像以前那样是对立的。
Today was the first day she went to school and studied and opened her notebook.
今天是她第一天去学校学习，打开笔记本。
Just today, after three months.
就在今天，三个月后。
Maybe, Michal said, she finally understands that things are going back to normal and she's going to have to go to school like normal with other kids who are moving on.
米哈尔说，也许她终于明白事情正在恢复正常，她将不得不像平常一样和其他正在继续前进的孩子一起去学校。
As move-in day approached, feelings in the family were all over the place.
随着搬迁日的临近，一家人的感情都在波动。
Aya was up and down-- a lot of down.
阿雅情绪起伏不定——非常低落。
I think Abel and Dedar, the little kids, they are excited to see the new life.
我认为阿贝尔和德达尔这两个小孩子很高兴看到新生活。
Lotan is very excited about this.
洛坦对此非常兴奋。
I'm not excited.
我不兴奋。
I feel sad leaving the kibbutz.
离开基布兹我感到很难过。
And even though I decided to do that, it's still sad for me.
尽管我决定这样做，但对我来说仍然很难过。
This is our decision of moving, but I didn't choose it.
这是我们搬家的决定，但不是我选择的。
This is what makes me so sad.
这就是让我如此悲伤的原因。
They chose it.
他们选择了它。
They decided it for me.
他们为我决定了。
Yeah.
是的。
Michal And it's hard for me not to have my parents around and not to ask them what they think.
米哈尔：没有父母在身边，不问他们的想法，对我来说很难。
Yeah.
是的。
Michal And you know, my mom, she was-- if I would move, she would come and help me clean and help me decide what to do.
米哈尔，你知道，我的妈妈，她 - 如果我要搬家，她会来帮我打扫卫生并帮助我决定要做什么。
And now, she's not here to do that.
而现在，她不是来这里做那件事的。
So every decision is-- she's so present with her not-presence.
所以每一个决定都是——她对自己的不在场感到如此的在场。
(CHUCKLING) I don't know how to say it.
（笑）我不知道该怎么说。
Yeah.
是的。
They moved February 1, and I called one last time a few weeks after that.
他们于 2 月 1 日搬家，几周后我最后一次打了电话。
The kids are in their new schools.
孩子们在新学校上学。
The family's renting a house.
一家人正在租房子。
Lotan and Michal are bracing for what it's going to be like to have their paychecks paid to them directly and living the way you and I do, where we have to worry about money and paying bills.
洛坦和米哈尔正准备迎接他们的薪水直接支付给他们的情况，并像你我一样生活，我们必须担心金钱和支付账单。
But one thing that was different in this last call was that they both seemed way more certain that they're never going to move back to Be'eri.
但最后一次通话的不同之处在于，他们似乎都更加确定自己永远不会搬回贝埃里。
There's a possibility, sure, but they both said it's likely they'll never return.
当然有这种可能性，但他们都表示他们很可能永远不会回来。
Aya, meanwhile, is mad all the time.
与此同时，阿雅一直很生气。
It's very severe, Michal told me, worse than before.
米哈尔告诉我，情况非常严重，比以前更严重。
She asks all the time to be driven back to the hotel to see her friends.
她一直要求开车回酒店看她的朋友。
She's gone back once a week.
她每周回去一次。
Michal feels like this is one of these parenting choices where she and Lotan made the right call to get the family away from the hotel and start a new life.
米哈尔觉得这是为人父母的选择之一，她和洛坦做出了正确的决定，让家人离开酒店并开始新的生活。
But that doesn't make it feel any better.
但这并没有让它感觉好一点。
She told me she hopes that someday Aya will understand and even forgive them for it.
她告诉我，她希望有一天阿雅能够理解甚至原谅他们。
Coming up, if you want to inspire your family at a family meeting once a week every single week, after a while, how do you come up with anything original to say?
接下来，如果你想在每周一次的家庭会议上激励你的家人，过了一段时间，你如何想出一些原创的话呢？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, "Family Meeting," the stories of people who care about each other, or are supposed to care about each other, coming together to figure stuff out.
今天的节目“家庭会议”讲述了互相关心或应该互相关心的人们聚在一起解决问题的故事。
And of course, these sort of meetings happen in non-family settings also.
当然，此类会议也发生在非家庭环境中。
I personally find it revolting when any boss refers to his employees as family, but I acknowledge there is an entire workplace version of this.
当任何老板将他的员工称为家人时，我个人觉得令人反感，但我承认这种情况存在整个工作场所版本。
And of course, there's a whole tradition of this in sports-- high school sports teams, where the coach sits everybody down for the big "come to Jesus" talk about how things have been going and what needs to happen next.
当然，体育运动中有一个完整的传统——高中运动队，教练让每个人坐下来进行“来到耶稣面前”的大讨论，讨论事情的进展情况以及接下来需要发生的事情。
One of our producers, Chris Benderev, was looking around at the stuff that high school coaches say to teams before their big games.
我们的制作人之一克里斯·本德列夫（Chris Benderev）正在四处查看高中教练在重大比赛前对球队说的话。
He found a lot of "let's get out there and crush them." Also a lot of the underdog version of that-- "nobody believes in us, but I believe in us." And then he ran across this one speech where the coach tried a different approach.
他发现了很多“让我们出去粉碎他们”。还有很多失败者的版本——“没有人相信我们，但我相信我们。”然后他看到了这篇演讲，其中教练尝试了一种不同的方法。
Kind of striking.
有点引人注目。
Talking to most of you seniors.
与大多数前辈交谈。
You know, when you go back to--
你知道，当你回到——
This is in a locker room in Southlake, Texas.
这是在德克萨斯州南湖的一间更衣室里。
The team is the Cedar High School High Longhorns.
该球队是雪松高中高中长角牛队。
Their coach, Joey McGuire.
他们的教练乔伊·麦奎尔。
They're in the playoffs.
他们进入了季后赛。
If they lose this game, season's over.
如果他们输掉这场比赛，赛季就结束了。
The team is ready to go out onto the field.
球队已做好上场准备。
You know, this is a lot different.
你知道，这有很大不同。
You go week five, week six, there's always another week seven.
第五周、第六周，总是还有第七周。
This is different.
这是不同的。
If we don't take care of business, that's it.
如果我们不关心生意，那就这样了。
Ain't coming back in the locker room next week.
下周不会再回到更衣室了。
(SHOUTING) If you care about each other enough like we talk about, if you care about and love each other like we talk about, you have a sense of urgency to get one more week with your family, to get one more week with your family!
（喊叫）如果你们像我们谈论的那样足够关心彼此，如果你们像我们谈论的那样关心和爱彼此，你就会有一种紧迫感，想再和家人在一起一周，再和家人在一起一周！
Go find that--
去找那个——
Smart, right?
聪明吧？
Win, and we get one more week together.
赢了，我们就能多待一周。
Our producer, Chris, wondered if this was a move that the coach uses a lot, so he called up Coach McGuire, who said, yes, he has said this before in other playoffs.
我们的制片人克里斯想知道这是否是教练经常使用的一个动作，所以他打电话给麦奎尔教练，麦奎尔教练说，是的，他以前在其他季后赛中说过这个。
But he says it's also a thing he feels.
但他说这也是他的感受。
I talk all the time about being a family and being more than just a team.
我一直在谈论作为一个家庭而不仅仅是一个团队。
And that was such a huge game.
那是一场如此巨大的比赛。
I mean, there's probably 15,000 people.
我的意思是，大概有 15,000 人。
It's two of the best teams in the nation.
这是全国最好的两支球队。
These are Texas high school teams working their way up to a state championship.
这些是德克萨斯州的高中球队，正在努力争取州冠军。
Longhorns were playing the Carroll High School Dragons.
长角牛队对阵卡罗尔高中龙队。
Coach McGuire says that he knew that if they lost that game they were about to play, it really does feel like something.
麦奎尔教练说，他知道如果他们输掉了即将进行的那场比赛，那确实是一种感觉。
When you lose at the end of the season, that group of people, you're never going to play together again.
当你在赛季结束时输掉那群人时，你就再也不会一起比赛了。
It's almost like there's a death.
几乎就像有一个死亡一样。
Most people don't talk about that today could be the last game.
大多数人不会谈论今天可能是最后一场比赛。
And so that was my point.
这就是我的观点。
This ain't a bunch of guys that play football!
这不是一群踢足球的家伙！
We just get to play football together because this is a brotherhood!
我们只是一起踢足球，因为这是兄弟情谊！
This is a family!
这是一个家庭！
And man, whenever you have that, it's tough to destroy because you fight every single moment to keep it.
伙计，每当你拥有它时，就很难摧毁它，因为你每时每刻都在为保留它而奋斗。
That's what we got to do tonight.
这就是我们今晚要做的事。
Because you win, we get another week together.
因为你赢了，我们又可以在一起度过一周。
And that's all I want.
这就是我想要的。
That's all I want.
这就是我想要的。
Is everybody with me?
大家都和我在一起吗？
Yes, sir!
是的，先生！
Ira Glass So the team went out there in front of all those people.
Ira Glass 因此，团队在所有这些人面前走出去。
And how'd it go?
进展如何？
We end up getting beat 37-35 right at the end of the game on an absolutely horrible call.
比赛结束时，我们以 37-35 的比分被击败，这是一个绝对可怕的判罚。
But we ended up getting beat 37-35.
但最终我们以37-35落败。
Actually, it was a little worse than that-- 37-33.
事实上，情况比这更糟糕——37-33。
He says in the locker room afterward, it was really hard.
他赛后在更衣室里说，这真的很难。
But even if you win the state championship, which he has, that's hard, too.
但即使你赢得了他拥有的州冠军，那也很难。
Because that's the end.
因为那就是结束了。
No more weeks together.
再也不会在一起几周了。
Even if they win, there's that loss.
即使他们赢了，也会有损失。
He says he always makes it a point to thank the seniors, because it's often hardest for the seniors, you know, leaving the family.
他说他总是特别感谢年长者，因为对于年长者来说，离开家庭往往是最困难的。
Act Two, Sealed With a Diss.
第二幕，以diss结束。
So sometimes the reason for a family meeting is a conflict that a kid is having at school.
所以有时家庭会议的原因是孩子在学校发生的冲突。
And then the parent has to decide, did my kid do something wrong or is the problem the other kid?
然后家长必须决定，是我的孩子做错了什么，还是另一个孩子有问题？
In this next story, the parents have definitely come down on one side of that one.
在下一个故事中，父母肯定站在了另一边。
The story unfolds in a series of letters between two moms.
故事以两位妈妈之间的一系列信件展开。
It's an excerpt of a short story by Nafissa Thompson-Spires, read first by actors Eisa Davis and Erika Alexander.
这是纳菲萨·汤普森·斯皮尔斯 (Nafissa Thompson-Spires) 的短篇小说的节选，首先由演员艾莎·戴维斯 (Eisa Davis) 和埃里卡·亚历山大 (Erika Alexander) 朗读。
(SUBJECT) EISA DAVIS AS LUCINDA: Tuesday, October 1, 1991.
（主题）EISA 戴维斯饰演露辛达：1991 年 10 月 1 日，星期二。
Hello, Monica.
你好，莫妮卡。
I'm sure you remember me from the class field trip to the Getty in September.
我相信你还记得九月份去盖蒂博物馆进行课堂实地考察时的我。
It has been brought to my attention that your daughter Fatima may have started a nasty rumor about my Christinia.
我注意到你的女儿法蒂玛可能散布了关于我的克里斯蒂妮娅的恶毒谣言。
I hope to clear this up, as we both know how ugly these things can get.
我希望澄清这个问题，因为我们都知道这些事情会变得多么丑陋。
Actors Erika Alexander and Eisa Davis reading an excerpt of "Belles Lettres," with Alvin Melathe reading Principal Lee.
演员埃里卡·亚历山大和艾莎·戴维斯朗读《美丽文学》的节选，阿尔文·梅拉特朗读李校长的作品。
The story's by Nafissa Thompson-Spires.
这个故事的作者是纳菲莎·汤普森·斯皮尔斯。
You can read the full story in her book of short stories, Heads of the Colored People.
您可以在她的短篇小说集《有色人种的头》中阅读完整的故事。
The program was produced today by Sean Cole and Bim Adewunmi.
该节目今天由 Sean Cole 和 Bim Adewunmi 制作。
People who put together today's program include Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Bethel Habte, Cassie Howley, Rudy Lee, Seth Lind, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Safiyah Riddle, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Bethel Habte、Cassie Howley、Rudy Lee、Seth Lind、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Safiyah Riddle、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to the entire LeBaron family, Eloy Bleifuss, Madeline Ticknor, PJ Mark, Heath Vanden Bosch, and kusports.com for video of Coach McGuire's speech.
今天特别感谢整个 LeBaron 家族、Eloy Bleifuss、Madeline Ticknor、PJ Mark、Heath Vanden Bosch 和 kusports.com 提供的麦奎尔教练的演讲视频。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's confounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的混淆者 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he was just cast in a local theater production of Annie?
你知道吗，他刚刚参加了当地戏剧作品《安妮》的演出？
In the title role!
在标题角色中！
So he actually adlibbed his way through a lot of the show, including Annie's biggest and most famous song, which he delivered as--
所以他实际上在节目中的很多地方都即兴表演，包括安妮最伟大、最著名的歌曲，他以——
That's cool.
太酷了。
What are we going to do tomorrow?
明天我们要做什么？
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。