82: Haunted - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #82 | October 31, 1997 82: Haunted Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 82 集 | 1997 年 10 月 31 日 82：闹鬼 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass In his memoir, My Dark Places, James Ellroy writes about how he was haunted by the memory of his mother.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在詹姆斯·埃尔罗伊 (James Ellroy) 的回忆录《我的黑暗之地》中，描述了他如何被母亲的记忆所困扰。
She was murdered in 1958 when he was 10.
1958 年，她被谋杀，当时他 10 岁。
35 years later, he tried to track down her murderer.
35年后，他试图追查杀害她的凶手。
His mother was last seen in El Monte, California with a man Ellroy calls "the swarthy man" and with a blond woman.
他的母亲最后一次出现是在加利福尼亚州埃尔蒙特，与一名被艾尔罗伊称为“黑皮肤的男人”的男子和一名金发女子在一起。
Ellroy hired a private investigator.
埃尔罗伊聘请了一名私家侦探。
He also tried to scare up some leads by having two papers do stories about the murder and having the TV shows, Day One and Unsolved Mysteries do segments.
他还试图让两家报纸报道有关谋杀的故事，并让电视节目《第一天》和《未解之谜》做片段，以此来吓唬一些线索。
All of them but Day One gave out a phone number for people to call with tips and leads.
除了第一天之外，所有这些人都提供了一个电话号码，供人们拨打电话提供提示和线索。
As the phone calls came in, Ellroy found it he wasn't the only one who was haunted.
当电话打进来时，埃尔罗伊发现他并不是唯一一个闹鬼的人。
This is from his memoir.
这是出自他的回忆录。
"A man from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, called.
“一位来自俄克拉荷马州俄克拉荷马城的男子打来电话。
He said the swarthy man looked like a guy named Bob Soans.
他说那个黝黑的男人看起来像一个名叫鲍勃·索恩斯的人。
Bob murdered his wife, Shari, and committed suicide.
鲍勃谋杀了他的妻子莎丽，然后自杀了。
It was late '58.
那是58年末。
The crime occurred in North Hollywood.
犯罪发生在北好莱坞。
A man from Centralia, Washington called.
一位来自华盛顿森特勒利亚的男子打来电话。
He said his father was the swarthy man.
他说他的父亲是那个皮肤黝黑的人。
His father was 6'6 and weighed 240 pounds." I should say this does not match the description of the real swarthy man.
他的父亲身高 6 英尺 6 英寸，体重 240 磅。”应该说，这与真正的黑皮肤男人的描述不符。
"His father carried a gun and lots of ammunition."
“他的父亲带着枪和大量弹药。”
A man from Savage, Minnesota, called.
一位来自明尼苏达州萨维奇的男子打来电话。
He said the swarthy man looked like his father.
他说那个黑皮肤的男人看起来像他的父亲。
His father lived in El Monte back then.
当时他的父亲住在艾尔蒙地。
His father was abusive.
他的父亲经常虐待他。
His father served prison time.
他的父亲正在服刑。
His father was a gambler and a skirt chaser.
他的父亲是一名赌徒和追逐裙子的人。
A man from Rochester, New York, called.
一位来自纽约州罗彻斯特的男子打来电话。
He said his grandfather was the swarthy man.
他说他的祖父是个皮肤黝黑的人。
Gramps lived in a nursing home.
爷爷住在疗养院里。
The man supplied the address and phone number.
该男子提供了地址和电话号码。
A woman from Sacramento, California, called.
一位来自加利福尼亚州萨克拉门托的女士打来电话。
She said the swarthy man looked like a local doctor.
她说那个黝黑的男人看起来像当地的医生。
The doctor lived with his mother.
医生和他的母亲住在一起。
The doctor hated women.
医生讨厌女人。
The doctor was a vegetarian.
医生是素食主义者。
A woman from Lakeport, California, called.
一位来自加利福尼亚州莱克波特的女士打来电话。
She said the swarthy man looked like her ex-husband.
她说那个黝黑的男人看起来像她的前夫。
Her ex chased women.
她的前夫追女人。
She didn't know where he was now.
她不知道他现在在哪里。
A woman from Covina, California, called.
一位来自加利福尼亚州科维纳的女士打来电话。
She said her sister was raped and strangled in El Monte.
她说她的妹妹在艾尔蒙地被强奸并勒死。
It happened in 1992.
事情发生在1992年。
A woman from Paso Robles, California, called.
一位来自加利福尼亚州帕索罗布尔斯的女士打来电话。
She said the swarthy man looked familiar.
她说这个黝黑的男人看上去很眼熟。
She met a man like that in 1957.
1957年，她遇到了一个这样的男人。
He wanted sex.
他想要性。
She said no. He said he wanted to kill her.
她说不。他说他想杀了她。
He lived in Alhambra then.
当时他住在阿罕布拉。
A woman from Benwood, West Virginia, called.
一位来自西弗吉尼亚州本伍德的女士打来电话。
She said a man stalked her and her brother in Los Angeles.
她说，一名男子在洛杉矶跟踪她和她的兄弟。
She was six years old.
她六岁了。
The man had dark hair and good teeth.
这个男人有一头黑发和一口整齐的牙齿。
He drove a truck.
他开一辆卡车。
He took off her clothes, fondled her and kissed her.
他脱掉她的衣服，抚摸她，亲吻她。
She saw him on a TV game show several years later.
几年后，她在电视游戏节目中看到了他。
It might have been The Groucho Marx Show.
这可能是格劳乔马克思秀。
"
”
Ellroy's list of callers goes on for pages.
埃尔罗伊的来电者名单有好几页。
Why don't more adults celebrate Halloween?
为什么没有更多的成年人庆祝万圣节？
Why don't adults go to horror movies in the same numbers that teenagers do?
为什么成年人看恐怖电影的数量不像青少年那么多？
I believe it's because so many of us, we're already haunted, haunted by people who've harmed us, haunted by people we fear, haunted by people we've harmed, haunted by people who've gone.
我相信这是因为我们很多人已经被困扰，被伤害过我们的人困扰，被我们害怕的人困扰，被我们伤害过的人困扰，被离开的人困扰。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台，这是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, we choose some theme.
每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题。
We bring you a variety of stories on that theme.
我们为您带来有关该主题的各种故事。
Today's program, Haunted.
今天的节目，《闹鬼》。
Haunted not by ghosts or phantoms, but by other people, by reality.
不是被鬼魂或幻影困扰，而是被其他人、被现实困扰。
Act One, Hearing Voices.
第一幕，聆听声音。
A girl gets a tape recorder for Christmas, loves to record her parents, but only when they fight.
一个女孩在圣诞节得到了一台录音机，喜欢给她的父母录音，但仅限于他们吵架的时候。
Her parents die.
她的父母去世了。
The tapes survive.
磁带幸存下来。
Act Two, why a Jewish family in New York embraces a Holocaust survivor as a member of their family without much evidence that he really is.
第二幕，为什么纽约的一个犹太家庭在没有太多证据证明他确实是家庭成员的情况下拥抱大屠杀幸存者作为他们的家庭成员。
Act Three, Ashes.
第三幕，灰烬。
David Sedaris says, I love you, to his mother, and she tells him that she's going to pretend that she did not hear him say it.
大卫·塞达里斯对他的母亲说，我爱你，她告诉他，她要假装没有听到他说这句话。
The story of how he and his family reacted when she got lung cancer.
当她患上肺癌时，他和他的家人如何反应的故事。
Act Four, Ghost Story.
第四幕，鬼故事。
Heather Woodbury demonstrates that there is no rock and roll heaven.
希瑟·伍德伯里（Heather Woodbury）向人们证明，摇滚天堂并不存在。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Hearing Voices.
第一幕，聆听声音。
Lynnette Nyman is a reporter for Alabama Public Radio and uses a tape recorder in her regular job.
林内特·尼曼 (Lynnette Nyman) 是阿拉巴马州公共广播电台的记者，在日常工作中使用录音机。
But this story is about recordings she made as a kid-- 9, 10, 11, 12 years old.
但这个故事是关于她小时候录制的录音——9岁、10岁、11岁、12岁。
The tapes come from my taping my family.
这些录音带来自我对我家人的录音。
I taped my family.
我录下了我的家人。
But see, I didn't tape the happy moments.
但是你看，我没有录下快乐的时刻。
I taped all the trying moments.
我录下了所有艰难的时刻。
Why?
为什么？
Lynnette Nyman Maybe my own intrigue?
琳奈特·尼曼 也许是我自己的阴谋？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Well, I didn't do it.
嗯，我没有这么做。
Nyman Father Well, I didn't either.
尼曼神父 好吧，我也没有。
Well, I guess you did if you lifted the door up and got it in, didn't you?
好吧，我想如果你把门抬起来放进去，你就做到了，不是吗？
The person that makes the mess cleans it, don't they?
制造混乱的人会清理它，不是吗？
Hey, I didn't make the mess.
嘿，我没有把事情搞砸。
Nyman Father Hell no, you haven't cooked for days.
尼曼神父 天哪，不，你已经好几天没做饭了。
Why did you just say that?
你刚才为什么这么说？
Nyman Father There's old motor mouth going.
尼曼父亲 老马达嘴在动。
I'm not a motor mouth, but I want to know why you made that statement.
我不是一个爱说话的人，但我想知道你为什么这么说。
I'm trying to get this place in condition for you to paint.
我正在努力把这个地方修好以便你画画。
Why don't you shut up, or else he's not going to do it at all.
你为什么不闭嘴，不然他根本不会这么做。
At one point in the recordings, somebody is painting?
录音中的某一时刻，有人在画画？
Is that what's happening?
是这样吗？
Right.
对。
Ira Glass And do you remember this?
艾拉·格拉斯 你还记得这个吗？
Do you remember this actually happening?
你还记得这件事真的发生过吗？
I do.
我愿意。
I do.
我愿意。
Ira Glass And where are we in the house?
艾拉·格拉斯 我们现在在房子的什么地方？
What room are we in?
我们在哪个房间？
You're actually in the kitchen.
你实际上在厨房里。
We're in the kitchen.
我们在厨房里。
And see, this is where my mom has finally caught on to this whole thing and my taping.
看，这就是我妈妈终于明白了整件事和我的录音的地方。
And this was when I fell into her trap.
就在这时，我掉进了她的陷阱。
And she had said to me, "Lynnette, go get the tape recorder."
她对我说：“Lynnette，去拿录音机。”
You mean she'd start a fight and then she'd say, "Go get the tape recorder"?
你的意思是她会打架，然后她会说，“去拿录音机”？
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass What do you think was going on?
艾拉·格拉斯 你认为发生了什么？
I mean do you think that she's just getting into a little tiff with him, and she's like, well, "I'll show him.
我的意思是你是否认为她只是和他发生了一点争执，而她就像，好吧，“我会告诉他。
Not only am I going to have this fight, but I'm going to embarrass him, too, on tape."
我不仅要打这场仗，而且还要在录音中让他难堪。”
Well, the funny thing though is that if she were going to do that, why didn't she ever play it for anybody?
好吧，有趣的是，如果她打算这样做，为什么她不为任何人演奏呢？
She never did.
她从来没有这样做过。
And maybe she did think that.
也许她确实是这么想的。
Maybe she thought, OK, yeah.
也许她想，好吧，是的。
Like she said on the tape, she said "Well, I've got witnesses here." And witnesses for what?
就像她在录音带上所说的那样，她说：“好吧，我这里有证人。”还有什么证人？
Oh, oh now start a fight.
哦，哦，现在开始战斗吧。
Nyman Mother See, I've got a lot of things that I've got witnesses hear what you said.
尼曼妈妈看，我有很多事情，我已经让目击者听到你说的话了。
Dial the wrong number on the paramedics if I collapse, is that what you plan to do?
如果我倒下了，就拨错救护人员的电话，你就是打算这么做吗？
You want to argue?
你想争论吗？
Nyman Mother No, that wasn't a funny statement, that one.
尼曼妈妈 不，这不是一个有趣的说法。
I'd never thought that one up.
我从来没想过会有这样的事。
Is this what their regular, everyday relationship was like?
这就是他们正常的日常关系吗？
Or was this different than the way they were normally?
或者这与他们平常的方式不同？
I think it was like it was everyday life.
我认为这就像日常生活一样。
Oh really?
哦，真的吗？
Lynnette Nyman As far as I remember.
琳奈特·尼曼 据我所知。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
It was really these highs and lows.
这确实是这些高潮和低谷。
Dad could have had this done this morning while he got up.
爸爸本来可以在今天早上起床时就完成这件事。
Why didn't you get this taken care of this morning?
为什么今天早上你没有处理好这个问题？
Gracie.
格雷西。
Nyman Mother Why would that have held you back?
尼曼妈妈 为什么那会让你退缩呢？
Rams are playing in Chicago and you made me miss the game right now.
公羊队正在芝加哥比赛，你让我错过了现在的比赛。
What if the Angels are playing at the Angels' stadium?
如果天使队在天使队体育场比赛怎么办？
They're going to play every week and every day of your life.
他们将在您生命中的每一周、每一天都演奏。
That's what you've been saying for the last 27 years, Bill.
这就是你在过去 27 年里一直在说的，比尔。
Our home has to have maintenance and repair done to it.
我们的家必须进行维护和修理。
I was wondering if when you hear this, if she sounds harsh to you?
我想知道，当你听到这句话时，你是否觉得她听起来很严厉？
She does, yeah.
她确实这么做了，是的。
She sounds really harsh, and it kind of hurts because she talked to me like that too.
她听起来很严厉，有点伤人，因为她也这样对我说话。
OK, let me play you a little snippet here.
好的，让我在这里播放一个小片段。
OK.
好的。
Nyman Mother You're sick, you know that, don't you?
尼曼妈妈你病了，你知道的，不是吗？
Hey, nobody could put up with all your yelling and screaming.
嘿，没有人能忍受你的大喊大叫。
I'm one of the sweetest girls that ever walked.
我是有史以来最可爱的女孩之一。
Ever walked.
曾经走过。
I'll bet you again if I died and you had a guy in here, he'd leave within a week.
我再跟你打赌，如果我死了，而你这里有一个人，他会在一周内离开。
How much do you want to bet?
你想赌多少钱？
Nyman Father Start barking at him.
尼曼父亲开始对他吠叫。
How much you want to bet?
你想赌多少钱？
Ira Glass Now, you were laughing?
艾拉·格拉斯 现在，你在笑吗？
Yeah, it's funny.
是的，这很有趣。
Ira Glass What are you hearing?
艾拉·格拉斯 你听到什么？
I guess my father's humor.
我猜是我父亲的幽默。
To me, it's funny.
对我来说，这很有趣。
Which part is the joke?
哪一部分是笑话？
He's saying nobody can put up with your screaming.
他说没有人能忍受你的尖叫。
Which is the joke part?
哪个是笑话部分？
My father was just going along.
我父亲只是跟着走。
And she was the one in control, and she always was in control.
她是掌控一切的人，而且始终掌控一切。
And his response was to just joke.
而他的回答只是开玩笑。
You know I ain't as young as I used to be.
你知道我不再像以前那么年轻了。
Crawlin' around-- I injured my knee.
爬行——我的膝盖受伤了。
What knee did you hurt?
你哪个膝盖受伤了？
Nyman Father My wee knee.
尼曼 父亲 我的小膝盖。
My knee.
我的膝盖。
Wee knee.
小膝盖。
Nyman Mother You are sick, aren't you?
尼曼妈妈你病了，是吗？
Who do you talk to?
你和谁说话？
Your little girls?
你们的小姑娘们？
Is that the way you talk to your little girls?
你就是这样和你的小女孩说话的吗？
No. Ira Glass Now, after he died-- he died first, right?
不，艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）现在，在他死后——他先死，对吧？
Yeah, she kept the tapes after he died.
是的，他死后她保留了这些录音带。
Actually, I found them.
事实上，我找到了他们。
I remembered, and I found them, and I listened to them.
我记得，我找到了他们，我听了他们的声音。
And then I was the only one at home then, and I played them for her.
然后我是家里唯一的人，我为她演奏这些曲子。
I brought it out and put the tapes in and we listened.
我把它拿出来，把磁带放进去，我们就听了。
And we'd sit around the kitchen table just the two of us, and she'd cry, and I'd cry.
我们坐在厨房的桌子旁，只有我们两个人，她会哭，我也会哭。
And what do you think she was hearing when she would hear these tapes, often of her berating him and badgering him?
当她听到这些录音带时，你认为她听到了什么，通常是她斥责他并纠缠他？
I think she heard her love.
我想她听到了她的爱。
That's what I think.
我就是这么认为的。
Wow.
哇。
Lynnette Nyman And if anything, if she didn't hear her love, then she was just hearing him.
林奈特·尼曼 如果有什么不同的话，如果她没有听到她的爱，那么她只是听到了他。
And that was enough, and that was everything to her.
这就足够了，这对她来说就是一切。
I mean she was dedicated to him for 35 years.
我的意思是她为他奉献了35年。
When I look at some of her letters that she wrote to me while I was overseas for a couple years, it was all about, gosh, if only your father were here, I wouldn't be so lonely.
当我看到我在海外几年时她写给我的一些信时，信中都是关于，天哪，如果只有你父亲在这里，我就不会那么孤独了。
And I think that those tapes were a reminder.
我认为这些磁带是一个提醒。
Do you like your home, Bill?
比尔，你喜欢你的家吗？
Nyman Father No.
尼曼父亲号
Not at all?
完全没有吗？
Nyman Father Yeah, a little bit.
尼曼神父 是的，有一点。
[INAUDIBLE]
[听不清]
You want to admire my home or run me down like a bald swine.
你想欣赏我的家，或者像头秃猪一样把我撞倒。
You know I admire your home.
你知道我很欣赏你的家。
I admire you.
我很佩服你。
Then don't put me down, Bill.
那么别让我失望，比尔。
Ira Glass Do you think that she ever listened to the tapes and thought, God, I should have been sweeter to him.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）你认为她听过录音带后会想，上帝啊，我应该对他更友善一些。
I should have been sweeter?
我应该更甜一点吗？
No, no, no. I don't think so.
不，不，不。我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
I think it was totally normal and natural for her to be like that.
我认为她那样是完全正常和自然的。
And she never saw anything she ever did as being wrong, ever, never for a moment.
她从来没有认为自己做过的任何事情是错误的，从来没有一刻。
No, I didn't do it.
不，我没有这么做。
Nyman Father You come out here and say, where's that lazy son of a bitch at?
尼曼神父 你跑到这里来说，那个懒惰的王八蛋在哪儿？
Well, I've been working my goddamn ass off.
好吧，我一直在拼命工作。
That's where I've been.
那就是我去过的地方。
Yeah, I'm sure your ass looks worked off.
是的，我确信你的屁股看上去很疲惫。
One of the things that's so odd about these tapes is that your parents actually discuss a lot what'll happen after they die, and who will get what.
这些磁带的奇怪之处在于，你的父母实际上讨论了很多他们死后会发生什么，以及谁会得到什么。
I know, and I was sitting there going, yeah, yeah, yeah.
我知道，我坐在那里说，是啊，是啊，是啊。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't want to leave it to anybody.
我不想把它留给任何人。
I might leave it to the Good Shepherd.
我可能会把它留给好牧人。
She only wants the TV.
她只想要电视。
Nyman Girl I want the TV in the dining room and the framed camel out there.
尼曼女孩 我想要餐厅里的电视和外面的框架骆驼。
Who is it who says-- when they're talking about that, somebody pipes up, "I'll get the TV.
当他们谈论这个时，是谁说的，“我去拿电视。
I get the house."
我得到了房子。”
My sister says, "I get the television." And I say, "I get the house."
我姐姐说：“我拿到电视了。”我说：“我得到了房子。”
How'd it work out?
效果如何？
Lynnette Nyman Well, in my tapes, everything came true.
林奈特·尼曼 好吧，在我的录音带中，一切都成真了。
Really?
真的吗？
Lynnette Nyman For the most part.
林奈特·尼曼 大部分情况下。
My sister got the television.
我姐姐买了电视。
The house actually went into the trust and was put up for sale.
房子实际上进入了信托并被出售。
And my brother was cut out of the will.
我的兄弟也被排除在遗嘱之外。
Wait, is that actually in the tape, that somebody says, you're going to get cut out of the will?
等等，录音带里真的有人说，你会被从遗嘱中删除吗？
Yeah, my mother jokes on the tape that she wouldn't remarry, and she didn't remarry.
是的，我妈妈在录音带上开玩笑说她不会再婚，她也没有再婚。
She had a boyfriend later on.
后来她有了男朋友。
She actually says that, "I have a boyfriend," right?
她实际上说过“我有男朋友”，对吗？
She says, "I'm not going to remarry.
她说：“我不会再婚。
I'll just see somebody."
我只是去见一个人。”
Right.
对。
Nyman Mother One's enough for me, baby.
尼曼妈妈 宝贝，一个对我来说就足够了。
I'll never go through it again.
我永远不会再经历它了。
They'll never have to worry.
他们永远不必担心。
Mother might have a boyfriend to bring over there and see them, but I won't have a stepfather for them to look at.
妈妈可能有男朋友可以带过来看看，但我不会有继父给他们看。
[INAUDIBLE] Or you just throw a drink in his face.
[听不清] 或者你只是把饮料泼到他脸上。
Son of a bitch.
狗娘养的。
Pardon me?
原谅我吗？
Who'd you just cuss?
你刚才骂谁了？
I can't hear you?
我听不到你说话？
SOB he said.
他说，太糟糕了。
Nyman Mother Who'd you cuss?
尼曼妈妈你骂谁了？
He's getting jealous.
他开始嫉妒了。
Nyman Mother You wouldn't be jealous after you're gone, would you?
尼曼妈妈：你走了之后就不会嫉妒了，是吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Nyman Father No, because I'd be in the right hands beside Jesus.
尼曼神父 不，因为我会和耶稣一起在正确的人手中。
Let me ask you about how you all are acting, how the kids are acting in these recordings.
让我问一下你们在这些录音中的表现如何，孩子们的表现如何。
I'm going to play you another little snippet.
我要再给你播放一个小片段。
Oh, you know damn well I'd run you all the way down to the police station.
哦，你他妈的很清楚我会把你一路带到警察局。
[INAUDIBLE] Nyman Father I'd throw you in the back of the new truck.
[听不清] 尼曼神父，我会把你扔到新卡车的后面。
Wouldn't it be funny if they hit a bump?
如果他们撞到了碰撞不是很有趣吗？
She'd fall out and we'd just laugh.
她会摔倒，我们只会笑。
Get there and say, where did you go?
到那里说，你去哪儿了？
Mom is crying.
妈妈在哭。
So on the tapes, you guys are laughing.
所以在录音带上，你们在笑。
The kids are laughing.
孩子们在笑。
And then at one point, you say, "Mom's crying." What is happening?
然后在某一时刻，你说：“妈妈在哭。”发生了什么事？
I think she was hurt.
我想她受伤了。
She finally felt some hurt there.
她终于感觉到那里有些疼了。
And that's where I stop, and I think, oh gosh, I was just so stupid.
这就是我停下来的地方，我想，天哪，我真是太愚蠢了。
And I was caught up in it too.
而我也深陷其中。
And what shouldn't have been funny at all was funny to me then.
那时根本不应该搞笑的事情对我来说却很有趣。
And why?
为什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
And maybe it's just again, we're just coping We're just trying to get along.
也许这又是一次，我们只是在应对，我们只是在努力相处。
Do you view yourself as haunted by this time and by these tapes?
您是否认为自己被这段时间和这些磁带所困扰？
Yeah, I guess I do.
是的，我想我是的。
I feel like I can't get rid of them, and I totally want to be away from them completely.
我觉得我无法摆脱他们，我真想彻底远离他们。
But my thought these last few days was that I thought to myself, well, OK, after I do this interview, this is it.
但最近几天我的想法是，我对自己说，好吧，在我接受采访后，就这样了。
I'm getting rid of these tapes.
我要处理掉这些磁带。
I'm going to free myself from these things forever.
我将永远摆脱这些事情。
But you know I won't.
但你知道我不会。
They're going to go right back into the box.
他们将立即回到盒子里。
Hearing these tapes, I've really thought a lot about what survives of a person.
听到这些磁带，我真的思考了很多关于一个人的生存方式。
And we don't get to choose what survives of us.
我们无法选择我们的生存方式。
Do you think if your dad had a choice about the matter, if he would want you to still have these tapes?
你认为如果你父亲对这件事有选择的话，他是否会希望你仍然保留这些磁带？
I would say no. I would say he would say, get rid of them.
我会说不。我想说他会说，摆脱它们。
He would say, life was pretty good.
他会说，生活真好。
And sure there were rough moments, maybe quite a few of them, but overall, things have turned out pretty well.
当然，也有过艰难的时刻，也许其中不少，但总的来说，事情进展顺利。
And he would say the tapes were-- no, not good to keep.
他会说这些磁带——不，不好保存。
Would you tape around the house?
你会用胶带把房子围起来吗？
Would you ever tape in your personal life?
你会录下你的个人生活吗？
No. Ira Glass You don't have recordings or videotapes of you and your husband?
没有。 Ira Glass 您没有您和您丈夫的录音或录像吗？
No, absolutely not.
不，绝对不是。
Ira Glass Because of this?
艾拉·格拉斯 因为这个？
I think so.
我想是的。
Ira Glass Lynnette Nyman in Alabama.
艾拉·格拉斯·琳内特·尼曼，阿拉巴马州。
Act Two, this is the story of a boy who was thrown into the concentration camps when he was three, lost his parents.
第二幕，这是一个男孩三岁时被扔进集中营，失去父母的故事。
And although he survived the war, he was so young when it ended that he couldn't remember his parents and wasn't sure of his own last name.
尽管他在战争中幸存下来，但战争结束时他还太年轻，以至于不记得自己的父母，也不确定自己的姓氏。
He was adopted by a Swiss family, raised in Switzerland.
他被一个瑞士家庭收养，在瑞士长大。
His family gave him a German name.
他的家人给他起了一个德国名字。
He was haunted by the past.
他被过去所困扰。
When he saw a picture of William Tell in school, he thought it was an SS officer shooting a little kid.
当他在学校看到威廉泰尔的照片时，他以为那是一名党卫军军官射杀了一个小孩。
The apple on the kid's head just made it extra cruel.
孩子头上的苹果，让这件事变得更加残酷。
In his 40's, he started to search for clues about who we was.
四十多岁时，他开始寻找有关我们是谁的线索。
He thought his real name might be Binjamin Wilkomirski from Riga.
他认为他的真名可能是来自里加的本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基。
Last year, he published a book about his search called Fragments.
去年，他出版了一本关于他的搜索的书，名为《碎片》。
In New York, writer Blake Eskin and his mother got their hands on the book.
在纽约，作家布莱克·埃斯金和他的母亲拿到了这本书。
It turns out that Wilkomirski is a pretty unusual name.
事实证明，维尔科米尔斯基是一个非常不寻常的名字。
All the Wilkomirskis seem to descend from one town in Lithuania called Wilkomir.
所有威尔科米尔斯基家族似乎都是立陶宛一个名叫威尔科米尔的小镇的后裔。
Some Wilkomirskis came to America, changed their name to Wilbur, married into other names.
一些威尔科米尔斯基家族来到美国，改名为威尔伯，又与其他名字结婚。
Blake and his mother are Wilburs descended from Wilkomirskis.
布莱克和他的母亲是威尔科米尔斯基家族的威尔伯家族的后裔。
When Binjamin Wilkomirski came to the States on a speaking tour sponsored by the Holocaust Museum, they got together with him to figure out the past.
当本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基 (Binjamin Wilkomirski) 来美国进行由大屠杀博物馆赞助的巡回演讲时，他们与他聚在一起，了解过去。
It's the Sunday afternoon before Rosh Hashanah, the holiday marking the Jewish new year, and my parents' apartment is full of Wilburs.
这是犹太新年（犹太新年）前的周日下午，我父母的公寓里挤满了威尔伯斯。
It's mostly the Frum side of the family, the religious side.
这主要是家庭的弗鲁姆方面，即宗教方面。
The men were yarmulkes, the women long sleeves.
男人们戴着圆顶小帽，女人们则穿着长袖。
Binjamin Wilkomirski arrived a half hour late with his wife and his handlers from the Holocaust Museum.
本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基 (Binjamin Wilkomirski) 与他的妻子以及大屠杀博物馆的管理人员迟到了半个小时。
He didn't look like a Wilbur to me, but then again, he didn't look like anyone I'd ever met before.
在我看来，他不像威尔伯，但话又说回来，他看起来也不像我以前见过的任何人。
He was wearing a yellow shirt.
他穿着一件黄色衬衫。
His light brown hair was styled into a curly, puffy Jewfro and he had extra-long sideburns that didn't quite meet at his chin.
他的浅棕色头发被打造成蓬松的卷发，鬓角超长，但与下巴并没有完全相接。
The hairdo and the paisley scarf knotted around his neck tagged him as bohemian.
他的发型和脖子上系的佩斯利围巾让他成为了波西米亚人。
He wreaked of stale cigarettes.
他吐出了过期的香烟。
There's a big turnout.
投票人数很大。
Binjamin brought the Wilburs together in a way tradition and ritual have failed to do.
本杰明以传统和仪式无法做到的方式将威尔伯一家聚集在一起。
The religious and secular sides of my family have very little contact.
我家的宗教和世俗方面很少有接触。
Bar Mitzvahs and weddings are too expensive to invite everyone.
成人礼和婚礼的费用太高，无法邀请所有人。
Funerals too sudden for everyone to drive or fly in.
葬礼太突然，每个人都无法开车或乘飞机参加。
And the American style family reunion, with printed t-shirts and picnic coolers and tubs of macaroni salad, is simply unthinkable.
而美式家庭聚会，穿着印花 T 恤、野餐冷却器和一桶通心粉沙拉，简直是不可想象的。
But an audience with a Holocaust survivor who is both a family mystery and a minor celebrity is well worth the hassle of finding a parking spot in Manhattan on a Sunday afternoon.
但周日下午，在曼哈顿，一位既是家庭谜团又小有名气的大屠杀幸存者的观众，值得费尽心思寻找停车位。
At first, nobody knew what to do.
起初，没有人知道该怎么办。
Binjamin seemed affable, but also tired and a bit bewildered.
本杰明看起来和蔼可亲，但也很疲惫，而且有点困惑。
After everyone introduced themselves, a couple of Wilburs approached him.
在每个人都自我介绍后，几个威尔伯夫妇走近他。
They were carrying Ziploc bags, and in the bags were copies of Binjmain's book.
他们拎着密封袋，袋子里装着宾杰迈恩的书。
They asked him for autographs.
他们向他索要签名。
I felt embarrassed and worried about what Binjamin thought of us.
我对本杰明对我们的看法感到尴尬和担心。
But he signed their books as he would for any stranger.
但他像对待任何陌生人一样在他们的书上签名。
My relatives thanked him and sealed the books back in the Ziploc bags.
我的亲戚向他表示感谢，并将书封回密封袋中。
Things had started on the wrong foot.
事情一开始就出了岔子。
My mother decided to intervene.
我母亲决定介入。
She sat Binjamin down next to my aunt Miriam.
她让本杰明坐在我姨妈米里亚姆旁边。
Miriam, who was wearing a smart purple suit and a lavender and white turban, is the matriarch of the orthodox wing of the family.
米里亚姆穿着漂亮的紫色西装，戴着淡紫色和白色的头巾，是这个家族正统派的女族长。
She and her two brothers are the only living Wilburs who were born in Riga, where Binjamin thinks he came from.
她和她的两个兄弟是唯一出生在里加的威尔伯家族成员，本杰明认为他来自里加。
Miriam arrived in America in 1929, when she was 18 years old.
米里亚姆于 1929 年抵达美国，当时她 18 岁。
This is after the war, my mother, two brothers and me.
这是战后，我的母亲、两个兄弟和我。
And that's my husband.
那是我的丈夫。
At a small folding table, Miriam flips the pages of her tattered photo album, a high school graduation gift from her teachers back in Riga.
在一张小折叠桌上，米里亚姆翻着她破烂的相册，这是她在里加的老师送给她的高中毕业礼物。
My mother and I are hoping that one of the photographs will jog Binjamin's memory like a mug shot.
我和母亲希望其中一张照片能像一张大头照一样唤起本杰明的记忆。
Binjamin's memory is patchy, but Miriam remembers the past, She is in her late 80's, old enough to remember the Jewish refugees who fled to Riga during the First World War.
Binjamin 的记忆不完整，但 Miriam 记得过去。她已经 80 多岁了，足以记得第一次世界大战期间逃往里加的犹太难民。
It was so awful.
太可怕了。
Somebody came and killed.
有人来杀了。
The streets were filled with dead people.
街道上满是死人。
I remember.
我记得。
That's life.
这就是生活。
What can you do?
你能做什么？
All right, going back here.
好吧，回到这里。
Oh, here is the picture with what they think is the Avram.
哦，这是他们认为是阿夫拉姆的照片。
This Avram is the uncle.
这个阿夫拉姆是叔叔。
Avram, Miriam's uncle, was the only Wilkomirski brother who remained in Riga.
米里亚姆的叔叔阿夫拉姆是唯一留在里加的维尔科米尔斯基兄弟。
He is the number one candidate for missing link between Binjamin and the Wilburs.
他是本杰明和威尔伯家族之间缺失联系的第一候选人。
Avram could be Binjamin's uncle, or maybe even his father.
阿夫拉姆可能是本杰明的叔叔，甚至可能是他的父亲。
Miriam is pretty sure, however, that Avram had only one son.
然而，米里亚姆非常确定阿夫拉姆只有一个儿子。
His picture is in the scrapbook.
他的照片在剪贴簿上。
That boy would have been 10 years older than Binjamin.
那个男孩比本杰明大 10 岁。
On the other hand, it's possible that the family in America might not have known about other children because it was difficult to communicate with Riga in the late '30's.
另一方面，美国的家庭可能不知道其他孩子的情况，因为在 30 年代末与里加沟通很困难。
So who of your family finally remained in Riga during the war?
那么，您的家人中谁在战争期间最终留在了里加？
During the war?
战争期间？
Just Avram.
只是阿夫拉姆。
Binjamin Wilkomirski Just and his family?
本杰明·维尔科米尔斯基·贾斯特和他的家人？
Avram's children, that's-- Binjamin Wilkomirski Do you remember their names?
Avram 的孩子们，那就是—— Binjamin Wilkomirski 你还记得他们的名字吗？
No?
没有？
The more I learn about Binjamin, the less I believe we're related.
我对本杰明了解得越多，我就越不相信我们之间有联系。
Binjamin was separated from his family when he was two or three years old.
本杰明两三岁时就与家人失散了。
He doesn't know exactly how old he was because he doesn't know when he was born, or where he was born, or even what his real name is.
他不知道自己到底有多大，因为他不知道自己是什么时候出生的，也不知道自己出生在哪里，甚至不知道自己的真名是什么。
The only way he knows anything about who he is, is that on his way from Auschwitz to an orphanage after the war ended, a woman saw him and told him he was Binjamin Wilkomirski from Riga.
他唯一了解自己是谁的方式是，在战争结束后从奥斯威辛前往孤儿院的路上，一名妇女看到了他，并告诉他他是来自里加的本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基。
Binjamin tells me that recently, when he visited Riga, he stood on the spot in the ghetto where he remembers the Nazis murdered his father.
本杰明告诉我，最近，当他访问里加时，他站在贫民区的原地，他记得纳粹分子谋杀了他的父亲。
Or maybe it was his uncle.
或者也许是他的叔叔。
He's not sure.
他不确定。
I believe Binjamin when he says he remembers, but part of me thinks he's been looking for the place where his memory happened for so long, and he's read so much about Riga, that he subconsciously willed himself into finding it.
当本杰明说他记得时，我相信他，但我的一部分认为他长期以来一直在寻找他的记忆发生的地方，而且他读了很多关于里加的书，他下意识地让自己找到它。
For that matter, I'm not fully convinced that half a century later, he can honestly remember what some lady told him his name was.
就此而言，我并不完全相信半个世纪后，他能诚实地记得某个女士告诉他他的名字是什么。
Or if he does remember correctly, that she even knew his real name to begin with.
或者如果他没记错的话，她甚至一开始就知道他的真名。
One of the ironies of this situation is that Binjamin has invested years of his life in finding out who he is, and he still doesn't know.
这种情况的讽刺之一是，本杰明花费了多年的时间来找出他是谁，但他仍然不知道。
But he has learned a lot about who we are.
但他对我们是谁有了很多了解。
He knows all about the Wilkomirskis, where they lived and where they came from.
他了解威尔科米尔斯基一家的一切，他们住在哪里，来自哪里。
Binjamin has found other Wilkomirskis in Poland and Lithuania.
本杰明还在波兰和立陶宛发现了其他威尔科米尔斯基人。
In a register from the Vilna ghetto, Binjamin found a Sonya Wilkomirski.
在维尔纳隔都的登记册中，本杰明找到了索尼娅·维尔科米尔斯基。
He asks if we've ever heard of Sonya, if she's a relative.
他问我们是否听说过索尼娅，她是否是我们的亲戚。
Miriam says no, firmly, but everyone else in the room is looking for a way to make the answer yes.
米里亚姆坚决地说“不”，但房间里的其他人都在寻找一种方法来回答“是”。
Maybe like a nickname?
也许像昵称？
Sonya?
索尼娅？
Blake Eskin All through the afternoon, people keep saying Binjamin has the Wilbur face.
布莱克·艾斯金 整个下午，人们一直说本杰明长着威尔伯的脸。
They say he looks like Miriam's brother, Haymi, that he looks a little like my cousin Steven, that he looks like me.
他们说他看起来像米里亚姆的兄弟海米，他看起来有点像我的表弟史蒂文，他看起来像我。
Everyone has their theory.
每个人都有自己的理论。
Among things one doesn't normally look at that I do is the shape of the nostrils.
我通常不看的事情之一就是鼻孔的形状。
That's my mother.
那是我的母亲。
She's an amateur sculptor.
她是一位业余雕塑家。
Because they're very distinctive.
因为它们非常有特色。
They're similar, but not that close.
它们很相似，但并不那么接近。
The overall look, yes.
整体看起来，是的。
I do think there is a resemblance.
我确实认为有相似之处。
Sitting in my parents' living room, Binjamin seems oddly uninterested in what is potentially his long lost family.
奇怪的是，坐在我父母的客厅里，本杰明似乎对他失散多年的家人不感兴趣。
His attention to Miriam's photo album comes and goes, and he doesn't ask any questions about us.
他对米里亚姆相册的关注时断时续，而且他没有问任何有关我们的问题。
I'm not sure why he's so detached.
我不知道他为什么如此疏离。
It could be fatigue or shyness, or maybe his weariness of getting entangled with us.
可能是疲劳，也可能是害羞，也可能是他厌倦了和我们纠缠在一起。
In the end, Binjamin tells me he's sure we're family, though he isn't too concerned about where he fits on the Wilbur family tree.
最后，本杰明告诉我，他确信我们是一家人，尽管他不太关心自己在威尔伯家谱上的位置。
All the Wilkomirskis are somehow connected.
所有威尔科米尔斯基家族都有某种联系。
I'm absolutely sure, but maybe you have to go far back.
我绝对确定，但也许你必须追溯到很久以前。
But you see, at the end, the humans feelings are much more important than to know how, are you related in the second or third or fourth generation back or so.
但你看，归根结底，人类的感受比知道你是否与第二代、第三代或第四代左右有关系更重要。
After Binjamin and the Wilburs left my parents' house, there were five of us left-- me, my mother and father, my mother's cousin Susan and her husband.
本杰明和威尔伯一家离开我父母的家后，我们就剩下五个人了——我、我的母亲和父亲、我母亲的表弟苏珊和她的丈夫。
We talked about why so many Wilburs had showed up, and why they seemed so interested in Binjamin.
我们讨论了为什么有这么多威尔伯一家出现，以及为什么他们似乎对本杰明如此感兴趣。
On one level, the Wilburs were seeking the same thing Binjamin was, a key to the past.
在某种程度上，威尔伯一家正在寻找与本杰明相同的东西，一把打开过去的钥匙。
For most American families, anything that happened before the boat landed is a blur.
对于大多数美国家庭来说，船靠岸前发生的一切都是模糊的。
The Wilburs are an American invention, and Binjamin, if he is one of us, can show the Wilburs what we were before we got to Ellis Island.
威尔伯一家是美国人的发明，而本杰明，如果他是我们中的一员，可以向威尔伯一家展示我们到达埃利斯岛之前的样子。
Susan flew in from Southern California just to meet Binjamin.
苏珊从南加州飞来就是为了见宾杰明。
She said that knowing he was a member of the family would give her, as she put it, "a sense of roots."
她说，用她的话来说，知道他是这个家庭的一员会给她“一种根的感觉”。
One person who doesn't need a sense of roots is Miriam, with her memories of Riga, her religious rituals and her 35 great grandchildren.
米里亚姆（Miriam）是一个不需要根源感的人，她对里加、她的宗教仪式和她的 35 个曾孙有着记忆。
Perhaps that was why she seemed the most skeptical that Binjamin Wilkomirski was one of us.
也许这就是为什么她似乎最怀疑本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基是否是我们中的一员。
Blake Eskin's story of Binjamin Wilkomirski continues.
布莱克·艾斯金 (Blake Eskin) 关于本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基 (Binjamin Wilkomirski) 的故事仍在继续。
Also a story from David Sedaris.
还有大卫·塞达里斯的故事。
That's all in a minute, from Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续时，这就是国际公共广播电台的全部内容。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Haunted, not by the supernatural, but by other people and reality and the past.
今天的节目，闹鬼的不是超自然现象，而是其他人、现实和过去。
We're in the middle of Blake Eskin's account of a man who may be a long lost relative of his.
我们正在阅读布莱克·艾斯金（Blake Eskin）对一个人的描述，这个人可能是他失散多年的亲戚。
Or it might not be.
或者也可能不是。
The next day, Binjamin was the guest of honor at a $150 a plate luncheon at the Carlyle, a ritzy hotel on the Upper East side that John F.
第二天，本杰明作为贵宾出席了在卡莱尔酒店举行的每盘 150 美元午餐会，这是约翰·肯尼迪 (John F.
Kennedy used to use as a sex pad.
肯尼迪曾经用作性垫。
The Holocaust Museum comped our family an entire table, and ten Wilburs showed up.
大屠杀博物馆为我们一家安排了一整桌，十个威尔伯出现了。
This was a different bunch of Wilburs than at my parents house the day before.
这是一群与前一天在我父母家里不同的威尔伯家族。
No orthodox Wilburs came.
正统的威尔伯斯没有来。
The food wasn't kosher enough.
食物不够犹太洁食。
These Wilburs were on the assimilated end of the spectrum, people I know pretty well.
这些威尔伯家族属于被同化的一端，是我非常熟悉的人。
I've got my mouth full I'll talk to you in a minute.
我已经满嘴了，等会儿再跟你说。
I can't remember the last time everybody got together in Manhattan.
我不记得上次大家在曼哈顿聚会是什么时候了。
It was probably at your Bar Mitzvah or Deborah's Bat Mitzvah.
可能是在你们的成人礼或黛博拉的成人礼上。
Probably Deborah's Bat Mitzvah.
可能是黛博拉的成人礼。
There's a cocktail hour before lunch.
午餐前有一个鸡尾酒时间。
Some of my relatives haven't even met Binjamin yet, but they're already willing to accept him into the family.
我的一些亲戚甚至还没有见过宾杰明，但他们已经愿意接受他加入我们的家庭。
Whether or not he is related, it somehow seems immaterial.
无论他是否有血缘关系，似乎都不重要。
This is a contemporary, a cousin, let's say.
可以说，这是一个当代人，一个堂兄。
I mean that's the way I feel about it.
我的意思是，这就是我的感受。
And if he's not a cousin, we make him a cousin.
如果他不是表兄弟，我们就让他成为表兄弟。
Everyone is willing to embrace Binjamin as a family member without any proof.
每个人都愿意在没有任何证据的情况下接受本杰明作为家庭成员。
And all of them are feeling a new-found closeness to the Holocaust.
他们所有人都对大屠杀有了新的亲近感。
They all say, it could have been me.
他们都说，可能是我。
After an asparagus appetizer and a salmon entree, the MC of the luncheon, a major donor to the Holocaust Museum, gets up and introduces Binjamin.
在吃完芦笋开胃菜和鲑鱼主菜后，午餐会的主持人（大屠杀博物馆的主要捐助者）起身介绍了本杰明。
He doesn't need any proof either.
他也不需要任何证据。
It is my pleasure to welcome you today to today's very special luncheon.
我很高兴今天欢迎您参加今天非常特别的午餐会。
Before I continue, I'd like to acknowledge just a couple people in the room.
在继续之前，我想向房间里的几个人致谢。
Our author, Mr. Wilkomirski's family is all here, and they're sitting at table 11.
我们的作者 Wilkomirski 先生的家人都在这里，他们坐在 11 号桌。
It bothers me that we are introduced as family without any qualification.
让我感到困扰的是，我们被介绍为没有任何资格的家人。
I start to get upset.
我开始心烦意乱。
I won't fudge my family history for a lousy three-course lunch.
我不会为了一顿糟糕的三道菜午餐而捏造我的家族史。
But my mother calms me down.
但妈妈让我平静下来。
If it helps the Holocaust Museum to call us his newly discovered family, that's fine with me.
如果大屠杀博物馆称我们为他新发现的家人有帮助，那我也同意。
So you don't feel like we need to get up and correct the record?
所以你不觉得我们需要站起来纠正记录吗？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
I think it's helpful to the museum and possibly to Binjamin to say his family is here and to tell a story that we discovered each other.
我认为说他的家人在这里并讲述我们发现彼此的故事对博物馆很有帮助，也可能对本杰明有帮助。
Over the next week, we get to know Binjamin and his wife, Farina, a little better.
在接下来的一周里，我们对本杰明和他的妻子法里娜有了更多的了解。
My parents take them for a dim sum breakfast in Chinatown and a walk through lower Manhattan.
我父母带他们去唐人街吃点心早餐，然后在曼哈顿下城散步。
Binjamin and Farina invite me to dinner.
本杰明和法里纳邀请我共进晚餐。
We have a good time.
我们玩得很开心。
The hesitation and awkwardness of our first meeting is gone.
第一次见面时的犹豫和尴尬已经一去不复返了。
After dinner, Farina goes to their room, and Binjamin and I sit down in the lobby of the Waldorf Astoria.
晚餐后，法里纳去了他们的房间，我和宾杰明在华尔道夫酒店的大堂坐下。
You've helped us learn a lot about our family.
你帮助我们对我们的家庭有了很多了解。
And I mean thank you for that.
我的意思是谢谢你。
Because I am very happy that your reaction was so positive.
因为我很高兴您的反应如此积极。
And when I got the first letter by [UNINTELLIGIBLE], though you can't imagine how excited I was.
当我收到[无法理解]的第一封信时，你无法想象我有多兴奋。
I really was jumping from excitement.
我真的兴奋得跳了起来。
I ask Binjamin if he has considered taking a DNA test with us to determine if we're really family.
我问本杰明他是否考虑过和我们一起进行 DNA 测试，以确定我们是否真的是一家人。
Binjamin says he's not interested.
本杰明说他不感兴趣。
He says that if we're distant relatives, the test might not tell us anything.
他说，如果我们是远房亲戚，测试可能不会告诉我们任何信息。
And then he tells me a story about the man he calls Father Yaakov.
然后他给我讲了一个关于他称之为雅科夫神父的人的故事。
A woman who saw Binjamin's picture on television called him up to say that he looked exactly like her nephew, who she thought had died in the Holocaust.
一位女士在电视上看到本杰明的照片后给他打电话，说他看起来和她的侄子一模一样，她认为她的侄子已经死在大屠杀中了。
She said the father of this boy had survived and was living in Israel.
她说这个男孩的父亲幸存下来并住在以色列。
Binjamin called the man in Israel and discovered that they had some memories in common.
本杰明给以色列的那个人打电话，发现他们有一些共同的记忆。
They decided to take a DNA test.
他们决定进行DNA测试。
It took about four weeks for the test results to arrive.
测试结果大约花了四个星期才出来。
For me it was very strange.
对我来说这很奇怪。
I realized suddenly that during all the last decades, I never thought that I had a father.
我突然意识到，这几十年来，我从来没有想过我有一个父亲。
I was always completely fixed on the idea that I must try to somehow recreate the picture of the moment in [UNINTELLIGIBLE] People told me, that's your mother.
我总是完全固定在一个想法上，即我必须尝试以某种方式重现[难以理解]中那一刻的画面人们告诉我，那是你的母亲。
I was always thinking of that.
我一直在想这个。
And in a way, that blocked me completely.
在某种程度上，这完全阻止了我。
I never thought about a father.
我从来没有想过父亲。
A week before the test results arrived, this man calls Binjamin.
在测试结果出炉前一周，这名男子给本杰明打电话。
He said he has still a father's love toward his son.
他说他对儿子仍然有父亲的爱。
He could never live.
他永远活不下去了。
He has still this to give.
他还有这个可以给予。
And I'm looking for somebody like a father.
我正在寻找像父亲这样的人。
And he just offers to be for me like a father and even ready to accept that he will receive me at his home.
他只是主动提出像父亲一样为我服务，甚至准备好接受他会在他家里接待我。
So we went to his home, and we met his family.
所以我们去了他家，见到了他的家人。
The test results were negative.
检测结果呈阴性。
But Father Yaakov, a pious man in his 80's, helped Binjamin resolve something that had tormented him since the concentration camps.
但雅科夫神父是一位 80 多岁的虔诚人，他帮助本杰明解决了自集中营以来一直困扰他的问题。
And so, half a year later, I called him.
于是，半年后，我给他打了电话。
I talked to him on the telephone.
我通过电话与他交谈。
And then I said I wished to come alone for half a week or a week to see you.
然后我说我想一个人来半周或者一个星期来看你。
You said you will always be ready to give me advice.
你说过你会随时准备给我建议。
And he said, "Of course you can come.
他说：“你当然可以来。
My house is open."
我的房子是开放的。”
As a boy in the camps, Binjamin had done something that led to the death of another boy, and he felt guilty.
作为集中营里的一个男孩，本杰明做了一些导致另一个男孩死亡的事情，他感到内疚。
Yaakov told him he didn't have to.
雅科夫告诉他不必这样做。
In the moment when that happened, I was maybe four and a half or five years old.
当那件事发生时，我大概四岁半或五岁。
I had the feeling that I'm doing something that's not right.
我有一种感觉，我正在做一些不正确的事情。
And I thought the real guilt and the responsibility starts in the moment when you're conscious of it.
我认为真正的内疚和责任是在你意识到这一点的那一刻开始的。
But he explained that the Holocaust says that a child cannot be responsible for that unless the child learned about the law.
但他解释说，大屠杀表明，除非孩子了解了法律，否则孩子不能对此负责。
That was very important for my inner peace.
这对我内心的平静非常重要。
Binjamin calls Father Yaakov every Friday morning, and they visit one another four or five times a year.
本杰明每个周五早上都会给雅科夫神父打电话，每年他们都会互相拜访四五次。
Maybe we'll keep in touch with Binjamin too.
也许我们也会与宾杰明保持联系。
I hope we do.
我希望我们能做到。
Binjamin is haunted by his past and the uncertainty surrounding who he is in a way that my family can never be.
本杰明被他的过去和他是谁的不确定性所困扰，这是我的家人永远无法做到的。
But since he left, I feel more haunted by the present.
但自从他离开后，我对现在的感觉更加困扰。
I keep thinking about what might have become of me if my great grandmother hadn't left Riga when she did.
我一直在想，如果我的曾祖母没有离开里加，我会变成什么样子。
If I had been born at all, I might have ended up as an orthodox Jew in Brooklyn, or an unemployed engineer in Tel Aviv, or a Moscow mafioso with a gold tooth.
如果我真的出生了，我可能会成为布鲁克林的正统犹太人，或者特拉维夫的失业工程师，或者长着金牙的莫斯科黑手党。
One of the luxuries of melting into the American mainstream is not having to think about where you came from, or what might have happened if you'd stayed there.
融入美国主流的奢侈之一就是不必考虑你来自哪里，或者如果你留在那里可能会发生什么。
You can ignore your past most of the time, but every once in a while, it comes back to haunt you.
大多数时候你可以忽略你的过去，但每隔一段时间，它就会回来困扰你。
Blake Eskin first wrote about Binjamin Wilkomirski in The Forward.
布莱克·埃斯金 (Blake Eskin) 在《前锋》(The Forward) 中首次介绍了本杰明·威尔科米尔斯基 (Binjamin Wilkomirski)。
Wilkomirski's book is called Fragments.
威尔科米尔斯基的书名叫《碎片》。
It's published by Shocken Books.
它由震惊图书出版。
Act Three, Ashes.
第三幕，灰烬。
We can be haunted by others, or we can be haunted by the way that we behaved ourselves.
我们可能会被别人困扰，也可能会被自己的行为方式困扰。
This is a story of both kinds of haunting.
这是一个关于两种困扰的故事。
Several years ago, three weeks before his sister Lisa's wedding, David Sedaris got a phone call from his mom back home in Raleigh, North Carolina.
几年前，大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 在妹妹丽莎 (Lisa) 婚礼前三周接到了来自北卡罗来纳州罗利 (Raleigh) 家中母亲的电话。
She had lung cancer.
她患有肺癌。
She was a lifelong, unrepentant smoker.
她是一个终生不悔的烟民。
My sister Amy was with me when my mother called.
当我妈妈打电话时，我姐姐艾米和我在一起。
We passed the phone back and forth across my tiny New York kitchen, and then spent the rest of the evening lying in bed, trying to convince each other that our mother would get better, but never quite believing it.
我们在纽约的小厨房里来回传递电话，然后整个晚上都躺在床上，试图让对方相信我们的母亲会好起来，但从未完全相信这一点。
I'd heard of people who had survived cancer, but most of them claimed to get through it with the aid of whole grains and spiritual publications that encourage them to sit quietly in a lotus position.
我听说过有人从癌症中幸存下来，但他们中的大多数人声称在全谷物和鼓励他们安静地盘腿坐的精神出版物的帮助下度过了难关。
They envisioned their tumors and tried to reason with them.
他们想象了自己的肿瘤并试图与它们推理。
Our mother was not the type to greet the dawn or cook with oats and barley.
我们的母亲不是那种迎接黎明或用燕麦和大麦做饭的人。
She didn't reason.
她没有推理。
She threatened.
她威胁道。
And if that didn't work, she chose to ignore the problem.
如果这不起作用，她选择忽略这个问题。
We couldn't picture her joining a support group or trotting through the mall in a warm-up suit.
我们无法想象她会加入互助小组或穿着热身服在商场里小跑。
62 years old, and none of us had ever seen her in a pair of slacks.
62岁了，我们都没见过她穿休闲裤。
I'm not certain why, but it seemed to me that a person needed a pair of pants in order to defeat cancer.
我不确定为什么，但在我看来，一个人需要一条裤子才能战胜癌症。
Just as important, they needed a plan.
同样重要的是，他们需要一个计划。
They needed to accept the idea of a new and different future free of crowded ashtrays and five gallon jugs of wine and scotch.
他们需要接受一个新的、不同的未来的想法，没有拥挤的烟灰缸和五加仑的葡萄酒和苏格兰威士忌。
They needed to believe that such a life might be worth living.
他们需要相信这样的生活可能是值得的。
I didn't know that I'd be able to embrace such an unrewarding future, but I hoped that she could.
我不知道我能拥抱这样一个没有回报的未来，但我希望她能。
If she'd had it her way, we would've never known about the cancer.
如果她按照自己的方式行事，我们就永远不会知道癌症的事。
It was our father's idea to tell us, and she had fought it, agreeing only when he threatened to tell us himself.
告诉我们是我们父亲的主意，但她一直反对，直到他威胁要亲自告诉我们时才同意。
Our mother worried that once we found out, we would treat her differently, delicately.
我们的母亲担心一旦我们发现了，我们就会以不同的方式对待她，小心翼翼地对待她。
We might feel obliged to compliment her cooking and laugh at all of her jokes, thinking always of the tumor she was trying so hard to forget.
我们可能会觉得有必要称赞她的厨艺，并嘲笑她所有的笑话，总是想着她极力想要忘记的肿瘤。
And that is exactly what we did.
这正是我们所做的。
The knowledge of her illness forced everything into the spotlight and demanded that it be memorable.
对她患病的了解迫使一切都成为人们关注的焦点，并要求它令人难忘。
We were no longer calling our mother.
我们不再打电话给我们的母亲。
Now, we were picking up the telephone to call our mother with cancer.
现在，我们拿起电话给患有癌症的母亲打电话。
We realized that any conversation might be our last, and because of that, we wanted to say something important.
我们意识到任何谈话都可能是我们的最后一次，因此，我们想说一些重要的事情。
But what could one say that hadn't already been printed on millions of greeting cards and helium balloons?
但我们还能说什么呢？还没有被印在数百万张贺卡和氦气球上呢？
"I love you," I said at the end of one of our late night phone calls.
“我爱你，”我在一次深夜通话结束时说道。
"I am going to pretend that I didn't hear that," she said.
“我会假装我没有听到，”她说。
I heard a match strike in the background, the tinkling of ice cubes in a raised glass, and then she hung up.
我听到背景中划过一根火柴，还有升起的玻璃杯中冰块的叮当声，然后她挂断了电话。
I had never said such a thing to my mother, and if I had it to do over again, I would probably take it back.
我从来没有对妈妈说过这样的话，如果重来一次，我可能会收回这句话。
It was queer to say such a thing to someone unless you were trying to talk them out of money or into bed.
对某人说这样的话是很奇怪的，除非你试图说服他们要钱或上床。
Our mother had taught us this when we were no taller than pony kegs.
当我们还没有小马桶高的时候，我们的母亲就教了我们这一点。
I had known people who said such things to their parents, "I love you." But it always translated to mean, "I'd love getting off the phone with you."
我认识一些人，他们对父母说过这样的话：“我爱你。”但它总是翻译成“我很乐意和你通电话”。
We gathered together for the wedding, which took place on a crisp, clear October afternoon.
我们聚在一起参加婚礼，婚礼在十月一个清爽、晴朗的下午举行。
I took my mother's arm and led her to a bench beyond the range of the other guests.
我拉着母亲的手臂，把她带到其他客人无法触及的长凳上。
The thin mountain air made it difficult for her to breathe, and she moved slowly, pausing every few moments.
山间的空气稀薄，让她呼吸困难，她的动作很慢，每隔一会儿就会停下来。
The families had taken a walk to a nearby glen, and we sat in the shade, eating sausage biscuits and speaking to one another like well-mannered strangers.
一家人散步到附近的一个峡谷，我们坐在阴凉处，吃着香肠饼干，像礼貌的陌生人一样互相交谈。
"The sausage is good," she said.
“香肠很好吃，”她说。
"It's flavorful, but not too greasy." "Not too greasy at all.
“味道不错，但又不会太油腻。” “一点也不油腻。
Still though, it isn't dry." "Neither are the biscuits," she said.
尽管如此，它还没有干燥。” “饼干也不是，”她说。
"They're light and crisp, very buttery." "Very.
“它们又轻又脆，非常黄油味。” “非常。
These are some very buttery biscuits, They're flaky, but not too flaky.
这些是一些非常黄油的饼干，它们是片状的，但不是太片状。
Not too flaky at all," she said.
一点也不脆弱，”她说。
We watched the path, awkwardly waiting for someone to release us from the torture of our stiff and meaningless conversation.
我们注视着小路，尴尬地等待有人将我们从僵硬而毫无意义的谈话的折磨中释放出来。
I'd always been afraid of sick people and so had my mother.
我一直害怕病人，我母亲也是如此。
I think it was their fortitude that frightened us.
我认为正是他们的毅力让我们感到害怕。
Sick people reminded us not of what we had, but of what we lacked.
病人提醒我们的不是我们拥有什么，而是我们缺乏什么。
Everything we said sounded petty and insignificant.
我们所说的一切听起来都很琐碎、微不足道。
Our complaints paled in the face of theirs and without our complaints, there was nothing to say.
我们的抱怨在他们面前显得苍白无力，没有我们的抱怨，就无话可说。
My mother and I had been fine over the telephone, but now, face to face, the rules had changed.
我和母亲在电话中表现得很好，但现在面对面，规则发生了变化。
If she were to complain, she risked being seen as a sick complainer, the worst kind of all.
如果她要抱怨，她就有可能被视为病态的抱怨者，这是最糟糕的一种。
If I were to do it, I might come off sounding even more selfish than I actually was.
如果我这样做，我可能会显得比实际上更自私。
This sudden turn of events had robbed us of our common language, leaving us to exchange the same innocuous pleasantries we'd always made fun of.
这突如其来的变故剥夺了我们的共同语言，让我们只能交换那些我们一直取笑的无伤大雅的寒暄。
I wanted to stop it, and so, I think, did she.
我想阻止它，我想她也是如此。
But neither of us knew how.
但我们都不知道怎么做。
After the gifts had been opened, we returned to our rooms at the Econo Lodge, the reservations having been made by my father.
礼物打开后，我们回到了伊克诺旅馆的房间，这是我父亲预订的。
We looked out the windows, past the freeway and into the distance, squinting at the charming hotels huddled at the base of other, finer mountains.
我们向窗外望去，越过高速公路，眺望远方，眯着眼睛看着挤在其他更美丽的山脚下的迷人酒店。
This would be the last time our family was all together.
这将是我们一家人最后一次在一起。
It's so rare when one knowingly does something for the last time, the last time you take a bath, the last time you have sex or trim your toenails.
当一个人最后一次故意做某事，最后一次洗澡，最后一次做爱或修剪脚趾甲时，这是非常罕见的。
If you knew you'd never do it again, it might be nice to really make a show of it.
如果你知道你永远不会再这样做，那么真正表现出来可能会很好。
This would be it as far as my family was concerned.
就我的家人而言，就是这样。
And it ticked me off that our final meeting would take place in such a sorry excuse for a hotel.
我们的最后一次会面竟然以如此糟糕的借口在酒店举行，这让我很生气。
"What more do you want out of a hotel?" he shouted, stepping out onto the patio in his underpants.
“你还想从酒店得到什么？”他喊道，穿着内裤走到露台上。
"It's clean.
“很干净。
They've got a couple of snack machines In the lobby.
大堂里有几台小吃机。
The TV's working.
电视正在工作。
It's near the interstate.
它靠近州际公路。
Who cares if you don't like the damn wallpaper.
谁在乎你是否不喜欢那该死的壁纸。
You know what your problem is, don't you?" "We're spoiled," we shouted in unison.
你知道你的问题是什么，不是吗？” “我们被宠坏了。”我们异口同声地喊道。
My parents retired to their room, and the rest of us hiked to a nearby cemetery, a once ideal spot that now afforded an excellent view of the newly built Pizza Hut.
我的父母回到了他们的房间，我们其余的人徒步去了附近的一个墓地，那里曾经是理想的地点，现在可以欣赏到新建的必胜客的美景。
Over the years, our mother had repeatedly voiced her desire to be cremated.
多年来，母亲曾多次表达过要火化的愿望。
We would drive past a small forest fire or observe the pillars of smoke rising from a neighbor's chimney, and she would crush her cigarette saying, "That's what I want right there.
我们会开车经过一场小森林大火，或者观察邻居烟囱升起的烟柱，她会捏碎香烟说：“这就是我想要的。
Do whatever you like with the remains.
对遗骸做任何你想做的事。
Sprinkle them into the ash trays of a fine hotel.
将它们撒入高级酒店的烟灰缸中。
Give them to smartass children for Christmas.
把它们送给聪明的孩子们作为圣诞节礼物。
Hand them over to the Catholics to rub into their foreheads.
将它们交给天主教徒，让他们擦在额头上。
Just make sure I'm cremated."
只要确保我被火化就行了。”
"Oh Sharon," my father would groan, "you don't know what you want." He'd say it as though he himself had been cremated several times in the past, but had finally wised up and accepted burial as the only sensible option.
“噢，莎伦，”我父亲抱怨道，“你不知道自己想要什么。”他说得好像他自己过去曾被火化过几次，但最终醒悟并接受土葬是唯一明智的选择。
We laid our Econo Lodge bedspreads over the dewy grass of the cemetery, smoking joints and trying to imagine a life without our mother.
我们把伊克诺旅馆的床罩铺在墓地沾满露水的草地上，抽着大麻烟，试图想象没有母亲的生活。
If there was a heaven, we probably shouldn't expect to find her there.
如果有天堂，我们也许就不会指望在那里找到她。
Neither did she deserve to roam the fiery tar pits of hell, surrounded for all eternity by the same [BLEEP] heads who brought us strip malls and theme restaurants.
她也不值得在地狱般的焦油坑中漫步，永远被那些给我们带来购物中心和主题餐厅的[BLEEP]头包围。
There must exist some middle ground, a place where one was tortured on a daily basis but still allowed a few moments of pleasure taken wherever they could find it.
一定存在某种中间立场，一个人们每天都遭受折磨但仍然允许在任何他们能找到的地方享受片刻快乐的地方。
That place seemed to be Raleigh, North Carolina, so why the big fuss?
那个地方似乎是北卡罗来纳州的罗利，那为什么要大惊小怪呢？
Why couldn't she just stay where she was and not have cancer?
为什么她不能留在原来的地方而不得癌症呢？
Ever since arriving at the motor lodge, we'd gone back and forth from one room to another, holding secret meetings and exchanging private bits of information.
自从到达汽车旅馆后，我们就从一个房间到另一个房间来回，举行秘密会议并交换私人信息。
We hoped that by preparing ourselves for the worst, we might be able to endure the inevitable with some degree of courage or grace.
我们希望，通过为最坏的情况做好准备，我们也许能够以某种程度的勇气或优雅来忍受不可避免的事情。
Anything we forecasted was puny compared to the future that awaited us.
与等待我们的未来相比，我们预测的任何事情都是微不足道的。
You can't brace yourself for famine if you've never known hunger.
如果你从未了解过饥饿，你就无法为饥荒做好准备。
It is foolish even to try.
即使尝试也是愚蠢的。
The most you can do is eat up while you still can, stuffing yourself, shovelling it in with both hands and licking clean the plates, recalling every course in vivid detail.
你能做的最多就是趁还能吃的时候吃完，自己填饱肚子，用双手铲进去，把盘子舔干净，生动地回忆起每一道菜的细节。
Our mother was back in her room and very much alive, probably watching a detective program on television.
我们的母亲回到了她的房间，而且非常活跃，可能正在看电视上的侦探节目。
Maybe that was her light in the window, her figure stepping out into the patio to light a cigarette.
也许那是她窗外的灯光，她的身影走到露台上点烟。
We told ourselves she probably wanted to be left alone.
我们告诉自己她可能想一个人呆着。
That's how stoned we were.
我们就是这样被石头砸死的。
We'd think of this later, each in our own separate way.
我们稍后会以各自不同的方式考虑这个问题。
I myself tend to dwell on the stupidity of pacing a cemetery while she sat, frightened and alone, staring at the tip of her cigarette and envisioning herself, clearly now, in ashes.
我自己则倾向于沉思在墓地里踱步的愚蠢行为，而她却坐着，害怕而孤独，盯着香烟的尖端，想象着自己现在已经化为灰烬。
David Sedaris's story, "Ashes," is from his book, Naked.
大卫·塞达里斯的故事《灰烬》取自他的著作《赤裸》。
His latest book is called Holidays On Ice.
他的最新书名为《冰上假期》。
He was recorded by Time Warner Audio Books.
他的作品由时代华纳有声图书公司录制。
Act Four, Ghost Story.
第四幕，鬼故事。
Well, we figured we couldn't do a show about people who were haunted without at least one old-fashioned ghost story.
好吧，我们认为如果没有至少一个老式的鬼故事，我们就无法制作一部关于闹鬼的人的节目。
This one is a very contemporary one.
这是一件非常现代的作品。
It's actually an excerpt from Heather Woodbury's amazing, eight hour, solo stage play, WhatEver.
这实际上是希瑟·伍德伯里 (Heather Woodbury) 令人惊叹的八小时独奏舞台剧《WhatEver》的节选。
The play is this sprawling, epic story.
该剧讲述的是一个庞大的史诗故事。
Woodbury plays ten fully-developed characters and over 100 minor ones.
伍德伯里饰演 10 个成熟的角色和 100 多个次要的角色。
We're just going to hear a tiny fragment of this thing here.
我们只是要在这里听到这件事的一小部分。
Here is the set up.
这是设置。
A character named Clove is at a rave party on a beach, goes out in the water, goes under, start to drown.
一个名叫丁香的角色正在海滩上参加一个狂欢派对，他掉进水里，然后沉入水中，开始被淹死。
People think it's a suicide.
人们认为这是自杀。
Then, somehow, she wakes up in a Brussels sprouts field.
然后，不知何故，她在抱子甘蓝地里醒来。
This is a few scenes later.
这是几个场景之后的事了。
[DIAL TONE] [PHONE RINGING] Clove Hannah, could you put Sable on the phone?
[拨号音] [电话铃声] Clove Hannah，你能让 Sable 接电话吗？
Hannah, Sable.
汉娜，塞布尔。
Your big sister Sable.
你的姐姐塞布尔。
Give me Sable.
给我黑貂。
Children, egg me to such excess at times.
孩子们，有时会怂恿我这么做。
Sable?
黑貂？
Yeah, it's Clove.
是的，是丁香。
Hi, yeah, yeah.
嗨，是啊，是啊。
No, I'm all right.
不，我没事。
Are you in trouble?
你有麻烦吗？
Ugh, I'm sorry.
呃，对不起。
What's that humming sound on the line?
电话线上嗡嗡的声音是什么？
Oh, your parents are chanting.
哦，你的父母在喊口号。
I'm so relieved my parents aren't Buddhists.
我很欣慰我的父母不是佛教徒。
Are they all agged and stuff about me drowning at the rave and getting arrested and like that?
他们都是关于我在狂欢派对上溺水然后被捕之类的事情吗？
Your parents are so overly righteous or something at times.
你的父母有时候太正义了或者什么的。
I'm not sure.
我不知道。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
Forget it.
忘了它。
It's too dull.
太沉闷了。
Never mind.
没关系。
Anyway, no my parents are calm.
无论如何，不，我的父母很平静。
They were all indignant that I talked to the state troopers and didn't go all silent and recite my rights and stuff.
他们都对我与州警谈话却没有保持沉默并背诵我的权利和东西感到愤怒。
But they didn't get hectic about, "Don't take drugs like we did.
但他们并没有因为“不要像我们一样吸毒。
LSD almost ruined our marriage." Blah blah blah.
LSD 几乎毁了我们的婚姻。”巴拉巴拉巴拉。
Yeah, they were non-typically all quiet.
是的，他们一反常态地都很安静。
I think my mom is spazzed that I'm a teen suicide risk or something.
我想我妈妈对我有青少年自杀风险之类的事情感到很惊讶。
No, Sable, is this you?
不，塞布尔，这是你吗？
No, I was just being all excessive in the water under the moonlight.
不，我只是在月光下的水中尽情享受而已。
It's like the moon was making this crescent cookie shape, cutting cookies in the back of my head even though I was looking the other way.
就好像月亮正在制作这个新月饼干形状，在我的后脑勺切饼干，尽管我正在看向另一个方向。
And the crabs were talking to me.
螃蟹正在跟我说话。
It doesn't matter.
没关系。
Never mind, it's too complex.
没关系，太复杂了。
I can't.
我不能。
Well, yeah, yeah, I was with that dude, Skitter.
嗯，是的，是的，我和那个家伙一起，Skitter。
No?
不？
Oh yeah, Skeeter.
哦，是的，斯基特。
Well, yeah.
嗯，是的。
We were by the cave by that dead sea lion or walrus, whatever.
我们在那个死去的海狮或海象旁边的洞穴旁边。
Do you think he's flaccid and weak, or do you think he's rad?
你觉得他是软弱无力，还是觉得他很热情？
Right on.
就在。
I'm so relieved.
我很放心。
Yeah, well we got slithery.
是的，我们变得很滑。
Yeah, that's when I went to the waves, to wash his protein shake off my hand.
是的，就在那时我去海浪里，把他的蛋白质从我手上洗掉。
My hand.
我的手。
Sable, I didn't like him that much.
塞布尔，我不太喜欢他。
So do you really want to hear what happened?
那么你真的想听听发生了什么吗？
You promise you won't think I'm all Juliette Lewis?
你保证你不会认为我就是朱丽叶特刘易斯？
All right, I go to the waves, and the ocean started talking or singing to me.
好吧，我走向海浪，大海开始对我说话或唱歌。
It's like the ocean was this green spreading gown and it was pulling me in it.
就好像海洋是这件绿色的长袍，它把我拉进去。
And then these crabs were biting my toes.
然后这些螃蟹咬了我的脚趾。
That's how they communicate.
这就是他们沟通的方式。
Yeah, they were telling me all these rad things.
是的，他们告诉了我所有这些有趣的事情。
Oh yeah, you should see my toes.
哦，是的，你应该看看我的脚趾。
They are retchedly butchered.
他们惨遭屠杀。
It's gruesome to excess.
太过分了就太可怕了
But anyway, the crabs were pulling my toes and teaching me how to dance this crazy turning pattern for the moon.
但无论如何，螃蟹们在拉我的脚趾，教我如何为月亮跳这种疯狂的旋转模式。
And then I could live under the waves and give the ocean something back for us destroying it, like me for the sea lion, a life for a life.
然后我就可以生活在海浪下，为我们摧毁的海洋回馈一些东西，就像我对海狮一样，以命还命。
I know.
我知道。
I thought you said you-- yeah.
我以为你说的是——是的。
Isn't it raging?
不是很火爆吗？
Yeah.
是的。
So I guess I was far out on the rocks.
所以我想我已经陷入困境了。
And the waves were slashing all about me.
海浪拍打着我的四周。
And I see this seahorse man crashing and raging way out in the middle of it.
我看到这个海马人在其中崩溃和愤怒。
And I-- Sable, girl dude, he was excessively real.
而我——塞布尔，小伙子，他太真实了。
Do you believe me?
你相信我吗？
Rad.
拉德。
And then Skitter, oh yeah, I mean Skeeter, was calling to me.
然后斯基特，哦，是的，我是说斯基特，打电话给我。
And I don't know what I answered, but I jumped in.
我不知道我的回答是什么，但我跳了进去。
And the next thing I knew, I was swirling around in the waves, and then I see this white, white dude.
接下来我就知道，我在海浪中旋转，然后我看到了这个白人，白人。
And he's pushing the seahorse man back under the waves, and he's pulling back the dress of the waves to keep it from going over my neck.
他把海马人推回到海浪下面，他把海浪的裙子拉回来，防止它越过我的脖子。
And then he floats across the ocean to me, and he says, "This is way [BLEEP]."
然后他漂洋过海来到我身边，他说：“这就是方式[BLEEP]。”
And he leads me down underwater over these underwater mountains into this underwater valley where there's this underwater farm.
他带领我在水下越过这些水下山脉进入这个水下山谷，那里有一个水下农场。
But it turned out later-- the state troopers told me-- that I had gotten in this cave and crawled over these rocks up a cliff and across the road to the Brussels sprouts farm where they arrested me.
但后来事实证明——州警察告诉我——我进入了这个山洞，爬过这些岩石爬上悬崖，穿过马路来到抱子甘蓝农场，他们在那里逮捕了我。
So this way pale dude leaves me there.
就这样，苍白的家伙把我留在那里了。
And Sable, this is fiendishly odd.
还有塞布尔，这真是太奇怪了。
Don't spazz.
别发脾气。
He goes-- he's all, "Don't tell people you saw me." And I'm all, "Who are you anyway?" Sable, promise not to tell anyone.
他说——他就是这样，“不要告诉别人你看到了我。”我只是在问：“你到底是谁？”塞布尔，保证不告诉任何人。
Thou, right on.
你，就这样吧。
He's all, "I'm Cobain the friendly ghost." I'm being excessively real.
他就是这样，“我是友善的幽灵柯本。”我太现实了。
This was totally realistic.
这完全是现实的。
I was all, whoa, Kurt.
我当时就觉得，哇，库尔特。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
We don't even like Nirvana.
我们甚至不喜欢涅槃。
Well, In Utero is a good album.
嗯，《In Utero》是一张不错的专辑。
It is.
这是。
Never mind.
没关系。
No, I mean never mind, not Nevermind.
不，我的意思是没关系，不是没关系。
Anyway, never mind.
无论如何，没关系。
Yeah, isn't it raging?
是啊，不是很火爆吗？
[SNORING SOUNDS] Heather Woodbury Character Who's that?
[鼾声] 希瑟·伍德伯里 (Heather Woodbury) 角色 那是谁？
What in the devil?
到底什么是魔鬼？
Who's there?
谁在那里？
What is it?
它是什么？
Eliot?
艾略特？
Is that you?
那是你吗？
You frightened me.
你吓到我了。
No, it's not Eliot, is it?
不，这不是艾略特，是吗？
But you are a ghost, aren't you?
但你是幽灵，不是吗？
I thought you might been my last husband, dear.
我以为你可能是我最后的丈夫，亲爱的。
Who are you?
你是谁？
Coltrane?
科尔特兰？
Coltrane the friendly ghost?
科尔特兰是友善的幽灵吗？
Well, I'm awfully glad you're friendly dear, but you don't look a thing like Mr. Coltrane.
嗯，亲爱的，我非常高兴你很友善，但你看起来一点也不像科尔特兰先生。
I saw him play many, many times you know.
你知道，我看过他打球很多很多次。
And I'd say you're awfully pale, even for a ghost, if you're John Coltrane.
我想说，如果你是约翰·科尔特兰，即使对于鬼来说，你也太苍白了。
What is it dear?
亲爱的，这是什么？
What's that?
那是什么？
Co-bin?
科宾？
Co-bin?
科宾？
Kurt Co-bin?
库尔特·科宾？
Who knows.
谁知道呢。
Well, Kurt Cobain wanders around haunting various characters throughout Heather Woodbury's WhatEver.
好吧，科特·柯本在希瑟·伍德伯里的《WhatEver》中徘徊，困扰着各个角色。
The eight-hour version will be touring the United States in 1998.
八小时的版本将于 1998 年在美国巡回演出。
Her director, Dudley Saunders, has also produced an eight-hour radio play of the epic solo show from which this was excerpted.
她的导演达德利·桑德斯 (Dudley Saunders) 还根据这部史诗般的个人表演制作了一部长达八小时的广播剧，并摘录了该剧。
Well, our program was produced today by Nancy Updike and myself, with Alix Spiegel and Julie Snyder.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由南希·厄普代克和我本人以及阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和朱莉·斯奈德制作的。
Senior editor Paul Tough.
高级编辑保罗·托夫。
Contributing editors Jack Hit, Margie Rockland and consigliere Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Jack Hit、Margie Rockland 和顾问 Sarah Vowell。
Production help from Alex Blumberg and Rachel Howard.
Alex Blumberg 和 Rachel Howard 为制作提供帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] To buy a cassette of this program, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[鸣谢] 要购买该节目的磁带，请致电我们芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380。
312-832-3380.
312-832-3380。
Our email address, [email protected] .
我们的电子邮件地址，[电子邮件受保护]。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia who says every week after our show--
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理监督由 Torey Malatia 负责，他每周在我们的节目结束后都会说——
One's enough for me baby.
宝贝，一个对我来说就足够了。
I'll never go through it again.
我永远不会再经历它了。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。