814: Parents Are People - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #814 | November 10, 2023 814: Parents Are People Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 814 集 | 2023 年 11 月 10 日 814：父母也是人 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Chana Joffe-Walt From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Chana Joffe-Walt，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Chana Joffe-Walt, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是查娜·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt)，代理艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
I was little, maybe six or seven, bedtime.
我那时还小，大概六七岁，就该睡觉了。
I was deploying my best delay tactics.
我正在部署我最好的拖延策略。
I needed water, then a Band-Aid.
我需要水，然后是创可贴。
I think I had a lot of other demands, too, that I don't remember.
我想我还有很多其他的要求，但我不记得了。
And then, this part is vivid.
然后，这部分就生动了。
I remember I asked my mom, how do you have the answers for everything.
我记得我问妈妈，你怎么知道所有事情的答案。
She was on her way out the door.
她正要出门。
She said, oh, I don't have the answers to everything.
她说，哦，我没有所有问题的答案。
I stayed up for hours.
我熬了几个小时。
It was a deeply unsettling thought.
这是一个令人深感不安的想法。
I hadn't remembered that moment in a long time, but working on the stories in today's episode, I kept being reminded of it.
我已经很长时间不记得那一刻了，但在研究今天这一集中的故事时，我不断想起它。
All kids eventually learn that the adults in their lives don't have the answers to everything.
所有的孩子最终都会知道，他们生活中的成年人并不能解决所有问题。
Right?
正确的？
I think so.
我想是的。
I ran this by the ones I have on hand at home.
我用家里现有的东西来进行这个操作。
Do you remember a time where I did something or said something where you were like, oh, you're just a person, you don't know everything?
你还记得有一次我做了某事或说了一些话，你会说，哦，你只是一个人，你并不知道一切？
No, I never had that epiphany, because I never believed that you guys knew everything or were perfect.
不，我从来没有顿悟过，因为我从来不相信你们知道一切或者是完美的。
Like, ever.
就像，曾经。
Like, straight out of the womb, I was like, these are flawed people right here.
就像，刚从子宫里出来，我就想，这些都是有缺陷的人。
[LAUGHS] This is Jacob.
[笑]这是雅各布。
He's 12.
他12岁了。
Can you tell?
你能告诉我吗？
He was not going to bite.
他不打算咬人。
Yeah, I mean, I guess it was really surprising to me when I found out that you used to smoke.
是的，我的意思是，当我发现你曾经抽烟时，我想我真的很惊讶。
I was like-- that was like, that doesn't really sound like you.
我当时想，这听起来不太像你。
Like, even though, as a baby, I knew you were a flawed person, I just didn't expect that from you.
就像，尽管在我还是个婴儿的时候，我就知道你是一个有缺陷的人，但我只是没想到你会这样。
You did not know I was a flawed person as a baby.
你不知道我小时候是一个有缺陷的人。
[LAUGHS] You depended on me for everything.
[笑]你一切都依赖我。
Even as I was, like, being formed in your belly, I was like, this is a flawed belly.
即使当我在你的肚子里形成时，我也想，这是一个有缺陷的肚子。
[LAUGHS] Get out of here.
[笑]离开这里。
You're excused.
你被原谅了。
Go get your brother.
去接你弟弟吧。
Jacob's brother is still little enough that he hasn't started trolling me yet.
雅各布的弟弟还小，还没有开始捉弄我。
Micah-- he's 10.
迈卡——他10岁了。
I told him about the moment I first understood my mom didn't know everything.
我告诉他我第一次明白我妈妈并不知道一切的那一刻。
And I'm wondering, are there any moments like that, that you can remember?
我想知道，你还记得这样的时刻吗？
Definitely.
确实。
Chana Joffe-Walt No hesitation there.
Chana Joffe-Walt 毫不犹豫。
Micah can remember when it happened-- specific moments, like this one from when he was six or seven years old.
迈卡还记得这件事发生的时间——具体的时刻，比如他六七岁时的这个时刻。
Yeah.
是的。
At one point, I had a nightmare, and I came to my parents' room to--
有一次，我做了一场噩梦，我来到父母的房间——
You can talk to me.
你可以和我谈谈。
[LAUGHS] Micah OK, great.
[笑] Micah 好吧，太棒了。
So I walk into this room, and I'm just like-- see the lights are off, and then I wake up my-- I try to wake up my dad.
所以我走进这个房间，我就像——看到灯关了，然后我醒来——我试着叫醒我爸爸。
And I'm like hey, hey.
我就像嘿，嘿。
I keep saying, hey, hey, hey!
我一直在说，嘿嘿嘿！
He's not responding.
他没有回应。
So I have to shake him.
所以我必须摇动他。
And then he wakes up, and he goes like-- [GASPS] he jumps.
然后他醒了，然后他就像——[喘息]他跳了起来。
And he's just like-- he, like-- and it just, like, makes me think, like, are you scared that something's going to happen as well?
他就像——他，就像——这让我想，你是否害怕也会发生一些事情？
Oh, because he was scared.
哦，因为他害怕了。
Micah Yeah.
米迦 是的。
And also, if it takes that much to actually wake you up, then that also sort of scares me.
而且，如果需要那么多时间才能真正叫醒你，那也会让我感到害怕。
Why?
为什么？
Micah Because if I'm like, something happens, and I'm stuck in my room or whatever and I'm not-- and I can't come over here, whatever, if I yell for you, you guys aren't going to answer.
Micah 因为如果我想，发生了什么事，我被困在我的房间或其他什么地方，但我不是——而且我不能来这里，无论如何，如果我对你大喊大叫，你们不会回应。
And that's hard for me.
这对我来说很难。
And then, I'm just like, what if like something actually happened.
然后，我就想，如果真的发生了什么事怎么办？
It's not just that we might not answer if he yells, or jump up if he comes into the room.
这不仅仅是因为如果他大喊大叫我们可能不会回答，或者如果他走进房间我们可能会跳起来。
It's also, he feels like, shouldn't we already know what's going wrong while we're sleeping.
他觉得，我们难道不应该在睡觉时就知道出了什么问题吗？
That's a real question, Micah had.
这是一个真正的问题，迈卡。
Yeah.
是的。
Or if I'm somewhere else and he knows that something's happening and he'll fly through the window.
或者，如果我在其他地方，而他知道发生了什么事，他就会飞出窗户。
And, like, if I was in school or whatever and something happened, and he would just be at work, typing, whatever, and he'd be like, oh, I sense something in the force.
而且，就像，如果我在学校或其他什么地方发生了什么事，他就会在工作，打字，无论什么，他会说，哦，我感觉到原力中有什么东西。
And then he just, like, flies through the window and enters the school, and he just picks me up.
然后他就从窗户飞进学校，然后他就来接我了。
Did you really think that?
你真的这么想吗？
Micah That's exaggeration, but something of the sort.
米迦：虽然有些夸张，但确实如此。
Before I realized, like, I was great.
在我意识到之前，我很伟大。
And what about after?
那么之后呢？
Micah Um, nobody can save me.
米卡 嗯，没有人能救我。
It's me, myself, and I, and whatever problem surrounds me.
这是我，我自己，我，以及我周围的任何问题。
These are the only people, the only things, that are around me, and there's nothing that can help me but me.
这些是我周围唯一的人、唯一的东西，除了我自己，没有任何东西可以帮助我。
And that's a scary thought for, like, a seven-year-old.
对于一个七岁的孩子来说，这是一个可怕的想法。
For anybody.
对于任何人来说。
Micah For anyone, but especially a seven-year-old.
弥迦 对于任何人来说，尤其是七岁的孩子。
Yeah.
是的。
That's a pretty enormous leap, right, from "my dad takes a minute to wake up" to "I'm totally alone in the universe." But I think this is what can happen when you're faced with the fallibility of adults in front of you.
这是一个相当巨大的飞跃，对吧，从“我爸爸需要一分钟才能醒来”到“我在宇宙中完全孤独”。但我认为，当你面对面前成年人的错误时，就会发生这种情况。
One tiny moment, and your mind takes you to all sorts of huge conclusions.
某一瞬间，你的大脑就会得出各种重大结论。
You enter this kind of freefall, and it doesn't just happen with parents.
你会进入这种自由落体状态，而且这种情况不仅仅发生在父母身上。
It doesn't just happen when you're young either.
这也不仅仅发生在你年轻的时候。
You can keep having these moments with all sorts of grown people-- adults you'd previously assumed were all-knowing, maybe omniscient, but instead are fallible, ignorant, or just tired.
你可以继续与各种各样的成年人一起度过这些时刻——你以前认为成年人无所不知，也许无所不知，但实际上他们容易犯错、无知，或者只是疲倦。
Today's show-- what happens in that freefall, and what happens after.
今天的节目——自由落体过程中发生了什么，以及之后发生了什么。
We have people who are entering the post-fallibility world.
我们有些人正在进入后错误世界。
The scales are just falling from their eyes.
鳞片刚刚从他们的眼睛里掉下来。
And we see how they react, how they come out of it, and what happens next.
我们会看到他们如何反应，如何摆脱困境，以及接下来会发生什么。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, See Something, Slay Something.
第一幕，看到一些东西，杀死一些东西。
Our first story is about a kid who really doesn't want to question the adults in her life.
我们的第一个故事是关于一个孩子，她真的不想质疑生活中的成年人。
She's in middle school in Texas-- great student, likes her teachers.
她在德克萨斯州上中学——优秀的学生，喜欢她的老师。
And she wants to trust the authority of adults, wants to believe they know what's best for her, even when the most powerful people in her school begin to make that very difficult.
她想要相信成年人的权威，想要相信他们知道什么对她来说是最好的，即使她学校里最有权势的人开始让这变得非常困难。
Talia Richman covers education for the Dallas Morning News.
塔利亚·里奇曼 (Talia Richman) 为《达拉斯晨报》报道教育问题。
She tells us what happened.
她告诉我们发生了什么事。
When the story begins, Madison was 13, starting eighth grade.
故事开始时，麦迪逊 13 岁，开始读八年级。
And she'd finally cracked the middle school code.
她终于破解了中学密码。
She had a good group of friends-- people from her cheer team and some kids in the theater program.
她有一群好朋友——啦啦队的人和戏剧节目中的一些孩子。
She messaged them all the time in group chats, said they were like a lunch table she could carry around in her pocket.
她一直在群聊中给他们发消息，说他们就像一张可以放在口袋里随身携带的午餐桌。
And she was speaking up more in class, like in math, her favorite subject.
她在课堂上发言得更多，比如数学，她最喜欢的科目。
It's not like reading and writing, where there could be an infinite amount of answers to what does this poem mean.
这不像阅读和写作，对于这首诗的含义可能有无数的答案。
But in math, there's always a singular answer to a question.
但在数学中，问题总是有唯一的答案。
[LAUGHTER] But when you can never get to the singular answer, it's not so fun.
[笑声]但是当你永远无法得到唯一的答案时，那就没那么有趣了。
Yeah.
是的。
Talia Richman Madison hoped to get into this prestigious high school program, the same one her older brother and sister had gone to.
塔莉亚·里奇曼·麦迪逊希望能进入这所著名的高中，她的哥哥和姐姐也曾就读过这所学校。
She seemed totally on track to do that-- until this one morning, her second semester, January 26.
她似乎完全有望做到这一点——直到今天早上，也就是 1 月 26 日，她的第二学期。
Madison was in second-period PE, sitting in her assigned spot toward the bleachers.
麦迪逊正在上第二节体育课，坐在面向看台的指定位置。
And she noticed the new kid in class in front of her.
她注意到班上新来的孩子就在她面前。
He was talking to another boy, and she heard the new kid say something.
他正在和另一个男孩说话，她听到新来的孩子说了些什么。
So I heard this kid was telling his friend don't come to school tomorrow.
我听说这个孩子告诉他的朋友明天不要来学校。
And the other kid asked, why.
另一个孩子问，为什么。
And the kid was like, don't worry about it.
孩子说，别担心。
I don't think my mind first went to a gun threat, because I subconsciously didn't think that kid was a danger.
我不认为我首先想到的是枪支威胁，因为我潜意识里并不认为那个孩子是危险的。
I mean, he was a new kid.
我的意思是，他是个新孩子。
And it was like, well, it could have just been a joke.
就好像，好吧，这可能只是一个笑话。
The bell rings.
铃声响起。
Madison leaves the gym, goes through the rest of her school day.
麦迪逊离开体育馆，开始了她剩下的一天的学习。
Then, in the last class of the day, she starts thinking about what she heard-- "Don't come to school tomorrow."
然后，在当天的最后一节课上，她开始思考她听到的话——“明天不要来学校。”
Then I was like, well, I can't just not take that seriously.
然后我就想，好吧，我不能不认真对待这个问题。
And I really started getting stressed out over it.
我真的开始为此感到压力。
And I think the only thing that was going through my head is, I can't keep this to myself.
我想我脑子里唯一想到的就是，我不能把这件事留给自己。
And I wasn't going to be able to do anything alone with that information.
我无法独自利用这些信息做任何事情。
Like, I had to tell someone.
就像，我必须告诉别人。
Madison was a toddler when Sandy Hook happened.
桑迪·胡克事件发生时，麦迪逊还是个小孩。
As far back as she remembers, her schools had done lockdown drills every year.
据她记得，她的学校每年都会进行封锁演习。
In her middle school, there are posters telling kids, "See something, say something." When school lets out, she decides to text one of her closest friends.
在她的中学里，贴着海报告诉孩子们：“看点什么，说点什么。”放学后，她决定给她最亲密的朋友之一发短信。
I wanted validation that my suspicions may be correct.
我想要验证我的怀疑可能是正确的。
She explains what she heard the new boy in PE say.
她解释了她听到体育新来的男孩说的话。
And she texts, "I can't remember if he was smiling or not, but I don't think he was." The more Madison tells her friend, the more worried the friend gets.
她发短信说：“我不记得他是否在微笑，但我认为他没有微笑。”麦迪逊告诉她的朋友越多，朋友就越担心。
"WTF," she writes in all caps.
“WTF，”她用全部大写字母写道。
"That's crazy."
“这太疯狂了。”
Madison and her friend agree to message a handful of their best friends across two group chats, to tell them what she overheard and to warn them.
麦迪逊和她的朋友同意通过两个群聊向几个最好的朋友发送消息，告诉他们她无意中听到的内容并警告他们。
Then Madison tells her friends she's going to talk with her mom.
然后麦迪逊告诉她的朋友她要和她妈妈谈谈。
I said, whoa, hold on.
我说，哇，等一下。
Talia Richman This is her mom, Lisa.
塔莉亚·里奇曼 这是她的妈妈丽莎。
It was, like, 4:45, 4:50.
大概是 4:45、4:50。
And so I was like, OK, everyone's gone.
所以我想，好吧，每个人都走了。
Give Mom a second.
给妈妈一点时间。
I started pacing the floor, because I was like, who can I reach out to so that we can escalate this concern.
我开始在地板上踱步，因为我想，我可以联系谁，以便我们可以升级这个问题。
Lisa regularly uses phrases like, "escalate this concern." She's an operations director, manages more than 100 employees.
丽莎经常使用诸如“升级这种担忧”之类的短语。她是一名运营总监，管理着 100 多名员工。
She's good at putting out fires.
她很擅长灭火。
Her kids sometimes say that Mom is in her Olivia Pope mode.
她的孩子有时会说妈妈处于奥利维亚·波普模式。
And so what Mom needs you to do now is to cease and desist on any further conversation and let some adults look into it.
所以妈妈现在需要你做的是停止任何进一步的谈话，让一些成年人来调查。
And about that time, my phone rang, and it was Ms. Samples.
就在那时，我的电话响了，是样品女士打来的。
Ms. Sharla Samples is the assistant principal at Madison's school.
Sharla Samples 女士是麦迪逊学校的副校长。
She was calling because the school had actually gotten wind of the situation already, because of Madison's text to her friends.
她打电话是因为学校实际上已经从麦迪逊给她朋友们发的短信中得知了这一情况。
Word travels fast in a middle school.
消息在中学传播得很快。
And so I said, you know, thank you for calling.
所以我说，你知道，谢谢你打电话来。
Madison just alerted me to a concern, and I was just trying to figure out how to contact you.
麦迪逊刚刚提醒我注意一个问题，我只是想知道如何联系您。
Ms. Samples wanted to know more details from Lisa and Madison.
Samples 女士想从 Lisa 和 Madison 那里了解更多详细信息。
Madison cried as she told her everything over speakerphone.
当麦迪逊通过免提电话告诉她一切时，她哭了。
Ms. Samples was reassuring.
样品女士令人放心。
And she told me at the end of the phone call that she was going to take care of it and that school was going to be safe.
她在电话结束时告诉我，她会处理好这件事，学校会很安全。
Later that evening, school police went to the boy's house.
当天晚上，校警来到男孩家。
They found no weapons and no intent to carry out violence of any kind.
他们没有发现武器，也没有实施任何形式暴力的意图。
It was a false alarm.
这是一场虚惊。
Everything was OK.
一切都很好。
Everyone was safe.
每个人都很安全。
So the school shooting scare was just that-- a scare.
因此，校园枪击事件的恐慌只是一种恐慌。
In my experience as an education reporter, that sort of thing happens all the time.
根据我作为教育记者的经验，这种事情经常发生。
What I'd never seen is what happened to Madison the next day at school.
我从未见过麦迪逊第二天在学校发生的事情。
During first period, Madison gets called to Ms. Samples' office.
在第一节课中，麦迪逊被叫到样品女士的办公室。
That's the assistant principal who called Lisa and Madison the night before.
这是前一天晚上给丽莎和麦迪逊打电话的助理校长。
Madison had actually never been to the principal's office before.
事实上，麦迪逊以前从未去过校长办公室。
She thinks maybe they have an update about yesterday.
她想也许他们有昨天的最新情况。
So I go to Ms. Samples' office, and she tells me, you can take a seat.
于是我去了 Samples 女士的办公室，她告诉我，你可以坐下。
Ms. Samples, in her assistant-principal kind of way, asked Madison some questions about the day before, asked to see the texts Madison sent her friends.
桑普斯女士以她助理校长的方式，向麦迪逊询问了前一天的一些问题，并要求查看麦迪逊发给她朋友的短信。
Madison shows her the texts, tries to answer all of her questions.
麦迪逊给她看了短信，试图回答她所有的问题。
Ms. Samples looks over everything, and then she turns to Madison.
样品女士检查了一切，然后转向麦迪逊。
And she says, so I was looking through the evidence that I gathered.
她说，所以我正在查看我收集的证据。
And I've decided that this was a false accusation.
我认为这是一个错误的指控。
Ms. Samples had determined that, by texting her friends first before telling an adult, she had essentially spread a rumor that there'd be a school shooting.
桑普斯女士认定，她在告诉成年人之前先给朋友发短信，实际上是在散布校园将发生枪击事件的谣言。
And page 11 of the student code of conduct said students cannot, quote, "make false accusations or perpetrate hoaxes regarding school safety."
学生行为准则第11页称，学生不能“就学校安全提出虚假指控或恶作剧”。
At first, I was like, wait, I'm in trouble?
起初，我想，等等，我遇到麻烦了吗？
Like, I could barely comprehend what she was saying.
就像，我几乎无法理解她在说什么。
I was very confused, because they told us, "see something, say something." And I did do that.
我很困惑，因为他们告诉我们，“看一些东西，说一些东西”。我确实这么做了。
And she told me that we all have to face the consequences of our actions.
她告诉我，我们都必须面对我们行为的后果。
And she said, unfortunately, the punishment is DAEP placement.
她说，不幸的是，惩罚是 DAEP 安置。
DAEP stands for Disciplinary Alternative Education Program.
DAEP 代表纪律替代教育计划。
It's Texas's version of school for kids with serious discipline problems-- a place where kids get sent for fighting or selling drugs.
这是得克萨斯州版的学校，专门为有严重纪律问题的孩子开设——孩子们因打架或贩毒而被送去的地方。
Madison didn't know much about DAEP, except that it was a bad thing.
麦迪逊对 DAEP 不太了解，只知道这是一件坏事。
And this wouldn't be some quick stint at DAEP.
这不会是在 DAEP 的短暂停留。
She'd be going there for the next 73 school days-- the rest of eighth grade.
接下来的 73 个教学日——八年级剩下的时间——她都会去那里。
And I remember, like, my jaw physically dropped.
我记得，我的下巴都快掉下来了。
And it took me a minute to process what she said.
我花了一分钟才消化她说的话。
Because before this, I felt like I was doing the right thing and that I was helping.
因为在此之前，我觉得我正在做正确的事情并且我正在提供帮助。
So she gave me some tissues, because I started crying.
所以她给了我一些纸巾，因为我开始哭了。
And I sat there, like, sobbing, thinking, what am I going to do.
我坐在那里，抽泣着，想着我该怎么办。
What am I going to tell my mom?
我要告诉我妈妈什么？
When Lisa got the call from Ms. Samples, the call where Lisa would learn her daughter was being sent to DAEP for the rest of eighth grade, she was at her sister's place.
当丽莎接到 Samples 女士的电话时，丽莎得知她的女儿将被送往 DAEP 读八年级剩余的课程，而她正在姐姐家。
It almost felt like I was having an out-of-body experience.
我几乎感觉自己正在经历一种灵魂出窍的体验。
It felt like she had the wrong kid.
感觉她生错孩子了。
I mean, my kid's a good kid.
我的意思是，我的孩子是个好孩子。
She's never been in trouble.
她从来没有遇到过麻烦。
She doesn't talk back to teachers.
她不跟老师顶嘴。
They love her.
他们爱她。
They have great things to say about her.
他们对她有很多好话要说。
I was so out of my mind that I thought, I'm not going to remember anything this woman is saying.
我当时简直疯了，我想，我不会记得这个女人说的任何话了。
And so I told my sister, put your phone on record, because I'm going to need to replay this so that I can remember what she's saying.
所以我告诉我姐姐，把你的电话录音，因为我需要重播这个，这样我才能记住她说的话。
--disruption in the school.
——扰乱学校秩序。
Lisa And so can I-- can I ask a question?
丽莎 那么我可以——我可以问一个问题吗？
So-- so I think that there's a lot of angles to perceive this by.
所以我认为可以从很多角度来看待这一点。
I think that Maddie owes the young man an apology if she misinterpreted him.
我认为如果麦迪误解了这个年轻人，她就应该向他道歉。
But I-- I implore you, can we talk about this some more.
但我恳求你，我们可以再讨论一下这个问题吗？
If there's anything--
如果有什么的话——
OK, if there's anything within your ability to make a different decision, then I'm pleading with you to try to look at this through a different lens.
好吧，如果你有能力做出不同的决定，那么我恳求你尝试从不同的角度来看待这个问题。
On the call, Lisa tries to get Ms. Samples to explain the school's reasoning.
在电话中，丽莎试图让样品女士解释学校的理由。
How did they consider this a false accusation?
他们如何认为这是虚假指控？
Her claim was-- is that a kid said, don't come to school tomorrow.
她的说法是——一个孩子说，明天不要来学校。
And the kid said, why not.
孩子说，为什么不呢。
And the other kid said, don't worry about it.
另一个孩子说，别担心。
Is the false claim that that conversation never existed-- that those words were not said?
难道那次谈话从未存在过——那些话没有被说过——是错误的说法吗？
It is not that the words were not said.
话并不是没有说出来。
It is that she took those words and she put her own inference on them, and then she went and told her friends that there was going to be a school shooting.
就是她接受了这些话，并根据自己的推论，然后她去告诉她的朋友，学校要发生枪击事件。
Ms. Samples said that students are supposed to immediately tell an adult or call an anonymous tipline after they hear something suspicious.
桑普斯女士说，学生在听到可疑情况后应该立即告诉成年人或拨打匿名举报热线。
Hearing her answer filled in part of the story for me.
听到她的回答，我的故事有了一部分。
Because the school district, Lewisville ISD, never made Ms. Samples or any other administrators available for me to interview.
因为路易斯维尔独立学区 (Lewisville ISD) 学区从未让 Samples 女士或任何其他管理人员可供我采访。
And I think one of the biggest things that is bothersome is that she held on to the information for so long, and then she chose to spread it on.
我认为最令人烦恼的事情之一是她长时间保留这些信息，然后她选择传播它。
Like, she took this-- the safety of what she felt at the time, whatever she interpreted it as, and then she didn't tell the right authorities.
就像，她接受了她当时感受到的安全感，无论她如何解释，然后她没有告诉正确的当局。
And she spread it, and she caused a panic.
她把这件事传播开来，引起了恐慌。
Right, but-- Sharla Samples And it, essentially, is considered a false accusation in the student code of conduct.
是的，但是—— Sharla Samples 从本质上讲，这在学生行为准则中被认为是虚假指控。
And so for waiting all day, then texting her friends about 30 minutes before telling her mom, they were giving Madison 73 school days in DAEP-- kicking her out of her middle school.
因此，她等了一整天，然后在告诉她妈妈之前大约 30 分钟给她的朋友发短信，他们让麦迪逊在 DAEP 上学 73 天——将她从中学开除。
When Lisa first told me about her daughter's punishment, I think I gasped a half-dozen times.
当丽莎第一次告诉我她女儿受到的惩罚时，我想我倒吸了六次气。
I had never heard of anything like this.
我从来没有听说过这样的事情。
In another big Texas district, fighting another student could get you up to 45 days in DAEP on your third offense.
在德克萨斯州的另一个大学区，如果第三次与另一名学生发生冲突，您可能会被 DAEP 处以 45 天的处罚。
Making a, quote, "terroristic threat" would get you 30 days.
提出“恐怖威胁”会让你被判 30 天。
I couldn't make sense of why Madison's middle school was throwing the book at her.
我不明白为什么麦迪逊的中学要把这本书扔给她。
It is true that schools across the US are dealing with a big increase in shooting threats.
确实，美国各地的学校正在应对枪击威胁的大幅增加。
Some are hoaxes, but a hoax can still disrupt school.
有些是恶作剧，但恶作剧仍然会扰乱学校秩序。
And threats that turn out to be fake-- those still scare kids and parents.
那些被证明是假的威胁仍然让孩子和父母感到害怕。
So maybe Madison's middle school felt like they had to take a tough stance on kids who were involved in any way in a threat that doesn't materialize.
因此，也许麦迪逊的中学觉得他们必须对以任何方式卷入未实现的威胁的孩子采取强硬立场。
But 73 days?
但73天？
Lisa was also racking her brain for an explanation.
丽莎也在绞尽脑汁地寻求解释。
And she told me, at first, she didn't let herself consider that a punishment this severe had anything to do with the fact that Madison, like her, is Black.
她告诉我，一开始，她并没有让自己考虑到如此严厉的惩罚与麦迪逊和她一样是黑人这一事实有关。
And I really tried to keep my mind away from that.
我真的试图让自己远离这个。
But she's 5' 6", she wears her hair natural, very big, very proud.
但她身高5英尺6英寸，头发自然，非常大，非常自豪。
And I just felt like maybe she wasn't being given the same lens that they would look at a fair, blue-eyed, petite girl.
我只是觉得也许她没有得到与他们看待一个金发、蓝眼睛、娇小的女孩相同的镜头。
Black students are often given a different lens when it comes to school discipline.
当谈到学校纪律时，黑人学生通常会被赋予不同的视角。
Federal civil rights investigations have repeatedly found evidence of Black kids being punished more severely for the same things that a white kid might get away with.
联邦民权调查一再发现证据表明，黑人孩子因为与白人孩子可能逃脱惩罚的同样的事情而受到更严厉的惩罚。
In Madison's school district, only 12% of students are Black.
在麦迪逊学区，只有 12% 的学生是黑人。
But in the latest data, they made up 33% of all kids in DAEP.
但最新数据显示，他们占 DAEP 儿童总数的 33%。
Lisa was hyperconscious of maintaining her cool during the phone call.
丽莎在打电话时非常注意保持冷静。
If I went in there being irate, I was just going to be another angry Black woman.
如果我愤怒地进去，我就会成为另一个愤怒的黑人女性。
So I kept it very even-toned, because I wanted to negotiate.
所以我保持了非常平稳的语气，因为我想进行谈判。
I wanted you to feel comfortable enough and not have your defenses up to talk with me.
我希望你能感到足够自在，不要在与我交谈时提防自己。
Let's lay this out, and let's talk about this.
让我们把这个问题摆出来，然后我们来谈谈这个问题。
Sure.
当然。
And so here's another question for you, is, so--
所以这里还有一个问题要问你，所以——
Ms. Samples keeps trying to explain the disruption Madison caused and how she potentially tarnished the boy's reputation at school.
桑普斯女士一直试图解释麦迪逊造成的混乱，以及她如何可能玷污了这个男孩在学校的声誉。
Sure, Lisa agrees, that is bad.
当然，丽莎同意，这很糟糕。
But--
但是——
We're holding her to a standard of a grownup with a mature brain.
我们以一个拥有成熟大脑的成年人的标准来衡量她。
And she's a 13-year-old who made an error, but it wasn't done with malice.
她是一个13岁的女孩，犯了一个错误，但并不是出于恶意。
But this punishment feels very punitive, as though she did whatever she did with malice.
但这种惩罚给人的感觉非常惩罚性，就好像她所做的一切都是恶意的。
And I keep using that word, "malice." She seriously thought there was a threat.
我一直用“恶意”这个词。她认真地认为存在威胁。
So I really wish that we could talk through this some more and think of other ways to make this a learning opportunity for Madison and not turning her into a juvenile delinquent.
所以我真的希望我们能再讨论一下这个问题，并想出其他方法，让这成为麦迪逊的一个学习机会，而不是把她变成一个少年犯。
I understand your point.
我明白你的意思。
Talia Richman Ms. Samples listens but stays firm.
塔莉亚·里奇曼·桑普斯女士倾听着，但态度坚定。
She tells Lisa, there's a formal process if you want to appeal this.
她告诉丽莎，如果你想对此提出上诉，有一个正式的程序。
But she isn't going to undo or reduce the punishment or explain its severity.
但她不会撤销或减轻惩罚，也不会解释其严重性。
Lisa does decide to appeal the school's decision.
丽莎决定对学校的决定提出上诉。
The administration gives her a hearing date, and Lisa goes into Olivia Pope mode-- spends hours each day preparing a defense of her daughter.
政府给了她听证会的日期，丽莎进入了奥利维亚·波普模式——每天花几个小时准备为女儿辩护。
She keeps Madison at home, out of alternative school, as they wait for the appeal hearing, which leaves Madison with a lot of time to think about the punishment and what this will mean for her future plans.
当他们等待上诉听证会时，她让麦迪逊留在家里，远离替代学校，这让麦迪逊有很多时间思考惩罚以及这对她未来的计划意味着什么。
And one thought really seeds inside her.
一个想法真的在她心里扎根了。
What if Ms. Samples' punishment is really bad because what I did was really bad?
如果因为我做的事情真的很糟糕，Samples 女士的惩罚真的很严重怎么办？
Like, in my eyes, I thought, like, she knows what she's doing.
就像，在我眼里，我想，就像，她知道自己在做什么。
And she knows the correct punishments to give.
她知道应该给予什么正确的惩罚。
And I shouldn't question it.
我不应该质疑它。
What's behind that belief?
这种信念的背后是什么？
Is that how you've always felt about school principals?
你对学校校长一直都是这样的感觉吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I thought that there were rules there for a reason, and the principals put them there because they know what they're doing.
我认为规则的存在是有原因的，校长们把它们放在那里是因为他们知道自己在做什么。
And, you know--
而且，你知道——
For a kid who's never been to the principal's office before, it's a powerful feeling, and it begins to take a toll on her.
对于一个以前从未去过校长办公室的孩子来说，这是一种强烈的感觉，并且开始对她产生影响。
She starts eating less.
她开始少吃。
Her doctor puts her on anti-anxiety medications.
她的医生让她服用抗焦虑药物。
The appeal takes place at the middle school 12 days after Madison got in trouble.
麦迪逊陷入困境 12 天后，上诉在中学进行。
It feels like a court date.
感觉就像法庭约会。
Madison, her mom, and her grandma show up with the family's new lawyer.
麦迪逊、她的妈妈和奶奶与家里的新律师一起出现。
They sit at a table, along with Ms. Samples and the head principal, Dr. Beri Deister.
他们与 Samples 女士和校长 Beri Deister 博士坐在一张桌子旁。
Both women are white.
两个女人都是白人。
What were you thinking about seeing Samples and Deister for the first time since this happened?
自从这件事发生以来，你第一次见到样品和戴斯特时有什么想法？
Did you have an idea of how you wanted to come off to them?
你知道自己想如何表现给他们吗？
Well, at first, I just wanted to be as polite as I could.
嗯，一开始，我只是想尽可能有礼貌。
But then my grandma was like, stop smiling.
但后来我奶奶就说，别笑了。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
Because she said, we're not here to be friends.
因为她说，我们不是来交朋友的。
Did you agree?
你同意吗？
Madison I don't think I, like, fully-- like, fully agreed.
麦迪逊 我不认为我完全同意。
Madison knows that the point of this appeal is to get the punishment reversed, to get her official record cleared and to get herself back into normal eighth grade.
麦迪逊知道，这次上诉的目的是要撤销处罚，清除她的官方记录，让自己回到正常的八年级。
But that's not all Madison wants out of this hearing.
但这并不是麦迪逊在这次听证会上想要的全部。
What were you hoping that you could get them to understand about your situation?
您希望让他们了解您的处境是什么？
That I wasn't the kid that they were seeing me as.
我不是他们眼中的那个孩子。
And maybe they saw me wrong.
也许他们看错了我。
Maybe they just don't know me enough.
也许他们只是还不够了解我。
What was the kid they were seeing you as, in your mind?
在你心目中，他们眼中的你是什么样的孩子？
Not a good kid.
不是个好孩子。
The kind who would cause trouble and lie about stuff.
那种会制造麻烦、撒谎的人。
I was thinking maybe if we have all these advocates for me-- my mom, my grandma, this lawyer-- that we could give the facts, rationalize, and just talk it through with them, and it would all be OK.
我在想，也许如果我们有所有这些支持我的人——我的妈妈、我的奶奶、这位律师——我们可以提供事实，合理化，然后与他们讨论，一切都会好起来的。
All right.
好的。
Let's begin.
让我们开始吧。
This hearing is convened on February 8, 2023, for the purpose of an appeal of a--
本次听证会于 2023 年 2 月 8 日召开，目的是上诉——
Dr. Deister, the head principal, kicks things off.
校长戴斯特博士拉开了序幕。
First, she asked Ms. Samples to review the school's official timeline of events.
首先，她要求 Samples 女士查看学校的官方活动时间表。
The tone is pretty damning toward Madison.
语气对麦迪逊来说是相当严厉的。
Madison's choice had a great impact on many different people.
麦迪逊的选择对许多不同的人产生了巨大的影响。
Several people were scared about the safety of the school because her messages started spreading.
由于她的信息开始传播，一些人对学校的安全感到担忧。
Communication had to be sent out to the whole school community, because the message started spreading--
必须向整个学校社区发送信息，因为信息开始传播——
My hands were shaking.
我的手在颤抖。
I remember feeling like I was in her office again.
我记得感觉就像又回到了她的办公室。
At this time, the student and/or those wishing to speak on a student's behalf are invited to do so.
此时，学生和/或那些希望代表学生发言的人将被邀请这样做。
This is Dr. Deister again.
这又是戴斯特博士。
Beri Deister This is your opportunity to explain why you disagree with the investigation findings or the disciplinary decision and what outcome you are requesting.
Beri Deister 这是您解释为什么您不同意调查结果或纪律决定以及您要求什么结果的机会。
I had prepared what I was going to say, because I didn't want to be emotional.
我已经准备好了我要说的话，因为我不想情绪化。
And Madison-- I knew she was agitated, and she looked nervous.
麦迪逊——我知道她很激动，而且看起来很紧张。
She looked-- she looked really nervous.
她看起来——她看起来真的很紧张。
Just, like, in her eyes?
只是，就像，在她眼里？
Lisa Yeah, I could see it in her eyes.
丽莎 是的，我可以从她的眼睛里看到这一点。
Um-- (EMOTIONALLY) I didn't want to let her down.
嗯——（情感上）我不想让她失望。
I did not want to let her down.
我不想让她失望。
Thank you for allowing me to respond to the assertions that Madison engaged in perpetrating a false hoax or disrupting school.
感谢您允许我对麦迪逊参与虚假骗局或扰乱学校的指控做出回应。
Lisa peppers her rebuttal with references to the Texas education statutes.
丽莎在反驳中引用了德克萨斯州的教育法规。
And then, under Section 4206, it goes on to say that the student has to knowingly initiate that they are making a false claim that is baseless or false.
然后，根据第 4206 条，学生必须故意提出他们正在做出毫无根据或虚假的虚假声明。
So Madison did not violate this code.
所以麦迪逊并没有违反这个守则。
And then she asked them to remember that Madison's a kid, how it's a normal thing for kids to check in with their friends for advice.
然后她要求他们记住麦迪逊还是个孩子，孩子们向朋友寻求建议是很正常的事情。
I think that the school did the right thing by jumping into action and making the assessment that this was not a threat.
我认为学校采取了正确的做法，立即采取行动并评估这不是威胁。
But if it had been something that he meant different when he said those words, we would be thanking Madison for raising the bell.
但如果他说这些话时有不同的意思，我们就会感谢麦迪逊敲响了警钟。
Lisa concludes.
丽莎总结道。
Madison's grandmother speaks up for her.
麦迪逊的祖母为她说话。
So does their lawyer.
他们的律师也是如此。
Then it's Madison's turn.
然后轮到麦迪逊了。
School administrators have the right to ask Madison questions, and she's really nervous about it.
学校管理人员有权向麦迪逊提问，她对此感到非常紧张。
Um-- [CLEARS THROAT] So Madison, you and I talked a little bit.
嗯——[清嗓子]麦迪逊，你和我聊了一会儿。
Right?
正确的？
Can you remind me what you said-- why you chose not to tell someone at school?
你能提醒我你说过的话吗——为什么你选择不在学校告诉别人？
I believe I said it wasn't the first thing on my mind.
我相信我说过这不是我首先想到的事情。
No, OK, and I really want you to remind me.
不，好吧，我真的希望你提醒我。
Because I know we talked about it.
因为我知道我们谈论过它。
I just wanted to hear what you had said again.
我只是想再听听你说的话。
So help me understand why you put it in two different groups.
所以请帮助我理解为什么你把它分成两个不同的组。
Um, I just wanted to make sure all of my friends knew and that they were safe.
嗯，我只是想确保我所有的朋友都知道并且他们安全。
So how did it go from "don't come to school" to guns?
那么，从“不来学校”到持枪是如何发生的呢？
Because you-- today, that's what you think of.
因为你——今天，这就是你的想法。
You think there's going to be some sort of school violence at school.
你认为学校里会发生某种校园暴力。
So--
所以——
But you didn't hear him say "guns," right?
但你没听到他说“枪”，对吧？
Right.
正确的。
Talia Richman It was at that moment, sitting there in her swivel chair, being interrogated by her principal, that Madison realized something.
塔莉亚·里奇曼 就在那一刻，麦迪逊坐在转椅上，接受校长的审问，意识到了一些事情。
Like, the way she asked the questions-- she wasn't trying to find out my perspective at all.
就像她提问的方式一样——她根本就没有试图了解我的观点。
And it was like a light switch being turned on.
这就像打开了电灯开关。
Like, oh, maybe they aren't as I see-- I saw them before.
就像，哦，也许它们并不像我看到的那样——我以前见过它们。
Like, they're not on my side.
就像，他们不站在我这边。
They were trying to form a case against me.
他们试图对我提起诉讼。
At the end of the hearing, Ms. Samples recommends that Madison's sentence be reduced, from 73 days in DAEP to 30 days.
听证会结束时，Samples 女士建议将麦迪逊的刑期从 DAEP 中的 73 天减至 30 天。
There is no explanation as to why.
没有解释为什么。
The principals were lowering Madison's punishment, but they weren't erasing it.
校长们减轻了麦迪逊的惩罚，但他们并没有取消它。
Even after all of the reasoning and the logical talking we tried to do with them, they still thought that I deserved punishment.
即使我们试图与他们进行所有的推理和逻辑交谈，他们仍然认为我应该受到惩罚。
And that kind of, like, rooted the idea that, OK, they don't like me.
这就像根深蒂固的想法一样，好吧，他们不喜欢我。
Lisa watched her daughter from across the table.
丽莎从桌子对面看着她的女儿。
And she realized Madison was getting a lesson that Lisa had hoped she'd be able to put off for a while.
她意识到麦迪逊正在接受丽莎原本希望能推迟一段时间的教训。
It's something she was going to learn later in life, that there were going to be cards stacked against her for being a woman, being a woman of color.
这是她在以后的生活中将会学到的东西，作为一个女人，作为一个有色人种的女人，她将会受到不利的影响。
There were going to be all these things that she was going to have to combat, and that I was sorry that lesson happened at 13 and not when she was older and more equipped and educated to battle it.
她将不得不面对所有这些事情，我很遗憾这个教训是在她13岁的时候发生的，而不是在她年纪更大、装备更齐全、受过更多教育的时候来应对的。
I deal with it every day.
我每天都在处理它。
And it-- that was sad to me.
这让我感到悲伤。
Lisa and Madison didn't have to live with 30 days.
丽莎和麦迪逊不必忍受 30 天。
In Madison's school district, there are three levels of appeal, and they could try it again.
在麦迪逊的学区，上诉分为三个级别，他们可以再尝试一次。
And this time, the judges don't work at Madison's middle school.
这次，评委不在麦迪逊中学工作。
They plead their case to a committee of three administrators from different schools in the district, not Dr. Deister.
他们向一个由来自该地区不同学校的三名管理人员组成的委员会（而不是戴斯特博士）提出申诉。
Their decision arrives by email in less than a day.
他们的决定将在不到一天的时间内通过电子邮件发出。
So I was in bed.
所以我躺在床上。
And, like, with one eye open, I saw that something came through.
而且，就像睁开一只眼睛一样，我看到有什么东西发生了。
And so it took me a second to kind of get my vision together.
所以我花了一秒钟才整理出我的愿景。
But when I read it, I just ran upstairs and jumped in her bed, and I was like, we won.
但当我读到它时，我就跑上楼，跳到她的床上，我想，我们赢了。
When educators outside the school looked at the situation, they saw Madison the way she saw herself-- as a kid who never meant to cause a disruption, a kid who maybe just needed a refresher on how to best go about reporting suspicious activity.
当学校外的教育工作者审视这一情况时，他们对麦迪逊的看法就像她对自己的看法一样——一个从来没有打算造成干扰的孩子，一个可能只是需要复习一下如何最好地报告可疑活动的孩子。
After about three weeks of being away, Madison was cleared to go back to school.
离开大约三周后，麦迪逊获准重返学校。
Shortly after I wrote about Madison's story for the Dallas Morning News, the district launched an investigation into the way she was punished.
在我为《达拉斯晨报》撰写麦迪逊的故事后不久，该学区就对她受到的惩罚方式展开了调查。
Dr. Deister went on administrative leave and eventually resigned.
戴斯特博士休行政假并最终辞职。
She didn't respond to request to be interviewed for this story.
她没有回应就本文接受采访的请求。
But in an email, she said her decision to leave was voluntary.
但她在一封电子邮件中表示，她离开的决定是自愿的。
She also wrote, quote, "All I can say is that every day administrators are faced with making harder and harder decisions.
她还写道，“我只能说，管理者每天都面临着做出越来越艰难的决定。
And in those decision-making efforts, I have always done my best to treat others with kindness, with dignity, and to follow the district guidelines."
在这些决策过程中，我始终尽最大努力以友善、有尊严的方式对待他人，并遵守学区的指导方针。”
This whole mess didn't derail Madison the way she feared.
这整个混乱并没有像她担心的那样使麦迪逊脱轨。
She's in ninth grade now.
她现在九年级了。
She got into that special high school program.
她进入了那个特殊的高中项目。
I learned this word in class the other day.
前几天我在课堂上学到了这个词。
It's "open-minded skepticism," where you view things from both a perspective of interest, and you can also be cautious about things and be skeptical.
这就是“开放的怀疑主义”，既可以从感兴趣的角度看待事物，也可以对事物持谨慎态度、持怀疑态度。
Yeah.
是的。
Talia Richman And it felt different from before, in that it was all open-minded, none of the skepticism?
塔利亚·里奇曼（Talia Richman） 感觉与以前不同，因为一切都是开放的，没有怀疑主义？
Right.
正确的。
Talia Richman Madison says it was so much easier back when she just believed she could trust every adult.
塔莉亚·里奇曼·麦迪逊说，当她相信自己可以信任每个成年人时，事情变得容易多了。
This new way of dealing with the world, where she has to figure out which adult she can trust and which ones deserve her skepticism-- it just takes a lot more brainpower.
这种处理世界的新方式，她必须弄清楚哪个成年人值得她信任，哪些成年人值得她怀疑——这只需要更多的脑力。
Talia Richmond is a reporter with the Dallas Morning News.
塔莉亚·里士满是《达拉斯晨报》的记者。
This story was produced by Chris Benderev.
这个故事由克里斯·本德列夫制作。
In preparing today's episode, we asked a bunch of people when they had this kind of realization that adults are flawed.
在准备今天的节目时，我们询问了一群人何时意识到成年人有缺陷。
People talked about moments when they saw adults lie, make mistakes, be reckless, cry in front of them.
人们谈论他们看到成年人撒谎、犯错误、鲁莽、在他们面前哭泣的时刻。
A woman who brought her friends from college back to the farm where she grew up to meet her parents and her dad started acting really distant.
一位女士带着她大学的朋友回到她长大的农场去见她的父母和她的父亲，她开始表现得非常疏远。
And she realized, oh, my god.
她意识到，哦，天啊。
He's intimidated.
他很害怕。
But the kind of experience we heard the most was like Madison had-- the realization that adults might not be looking out for you, might not protect you.
但我们听到最多的经历就像麦迪逊一样——意识到成年人可能不会照顾你，可能不会保护你。
We heard several stories about experiencing real school shootings and lockdowns.
我们听到了几个关于经历真实校园枪击和封锁的故事。
And in those stories, what stood out to people was the way adults fumbled.
在这些故事中，最引人注目的是成年人的摸索方式。
A 20-year-old college student named Adele Morris told us that two weeks after a gunman shot and killed a teacher at her school, the University of North Carolina, they had another lockdown-- someone armed on campus.
一位名叫阿黛尔·莫里斯 (Adele Morris) 的 20 岁大学生告诉我们，在她所在的北卡罗来纳大学 (University of North Carolina) 学校一名教师被枪手枪杀两周后，学校又进行了一次封锁——校园里有人持枪。
And Adele watched her professor, someone who probably didn't grow up having lockdown drills like she had.
阿黛尔看着她的教授，她可能没有像她那样从小就进行过封锁训练。
He didn't turn off the lights.
他没有关灯。
I don't remember if-- he didn't lock the door very quickly.
我不记得他是否——没有很快锁上门。
He actually started playing skits-- and it was my Portuguese class-- Portuguese skits on the smartboard, like, really loudly.
他实际上开始表演短剧——那是我的葡萄牙语课——智能板上的葡萄牙短剧，声音非常大。
And I just didn't know what was going on.
我只是不知道发生了什么事。
You don't know where the gunman is.
你不知道枪手在哪里。
And at a really loud volume, it was kind of unsettling to me.
而且音量很大，让我有点不安。
I mean, some of the professors led a-- one of my friends' professors led a round of applause for the maintenance men who had come and locked the door, even though there was a gunman on campus and you're not supposed to make noise.
我的意思是，一些教授带头——我朋友的一位教授带头为来锁门的维修人员鼓掌，尽管校园里有持枪歹徒，而且你不应该大声喧哗。
Adults who fail to protect children-- there's the abstract fear that adults can't protect you, and there's watching it happen right in front of you.
无法保护儿童的成年人——有一种抽象的恐惧，认为成年人无法保护你，并且看着它发生在你面前。
I've been thinking, watching the news from Gaza and Israel this week, and the week before that, and the weeks before those, about how many children are experiencing the most terrifying version of this-- the most brutal version of adults not having a handle on things.
我一直在想，本周、前一周、再前几周，观看来自加沙和以色列的新闻，有多少孩子正在经历最可怕的版本——成年人无法掌控事物的最残酷版本。
We are all witnessing children who are directly facing the fact that the adults around them cannot protect them.
我们都目睹孩子们直接面对周围成年人无法保护他们的事实。
Children facing that fact, not as part of a slow understanding of adult fallibility as they age and develop, but as a sudden reckoning-- a 3-and-1/2-year-old in Israel whose parents rushed her into a safe room and kept telling her to stay quiet, because Hamas was shooting right outside.
孩子们面对这一事实，并不是因为随着年龄的增长和发展，他们慢慢理解了成人的错误，而是突然的清算——以色列的一个 3 岁又 1/2 岁的孩子，她的父母把她赶进一个安全的房间，并一直告诉她要保持安静，因为哈马斯就在外面开枪。
Her dad told her and her sister, stay silent.
她爸爸告诉她和她妹妹，保持沉默。
And he kept telling her that for 10 hours.
他一直这样告诉她，持续了十个小时。
He could not stop what was happening.
他无法阻止正在发生的事情。
He could just tell her to keep quiet.
他只能告诉她保持安静。
That's all he could do for her.
他能为她做的就只有这些了。
A video from Gaza shows two kids, siblings, holding hands in the street right after an Israeli airstrike.
来自加沙的一段视频显示，以色列空袭后，两个孩子（兄弟姐妹）在街上手牵着手。
They've just come out from under the rubble, and they're covered in dust and blood.
他们刚刚从废墟下出来，浑身都是灰尘和血迹。
They're looking around for their mom and their brother.
他们正在四处寻找他们的妈妈和兄弟。
Around them, the street is chaotic.
他们周围的街道一片混乱。
People are moving in every direction.
人们正在向各个方向移动。
The older kid spots his brother on the other side of the street and yells, that's my brother!
大一点的孩子在街的另一边发现了他的兄弟，然后大喊，那是我的兄弟！
Here's my brother, the one in blue!
这是我的兄弟，那个穿蓝色衣服的！
That's my brother!
那是我的兄弟！
He can't get to him.
他无法接近他。
He needs the help of an adult.
他需要成年人的帮助。
Please, I'm begging you, he says.
拜托，我求求你了，他说。
That's my brother.
那是我的兄弟。
A few adults do help.
一些成年人确实会帮忙。
They rush over to the brother.
他们冲向哥哥。
He's tiny, crying, with a bloody nose.
他个子很小，鼻子流着血，一直在哭。
Come here, they say.
他们说，来这里吧。
They guide him to his siblings, take their hands, and join them.
他们引导他到他的兄弟姐妹那里，握住他们的手，加入到他们的行列中。
Now, the three kids are hand in hand, looking up at the adults.
现在，三个孩子手拉着手，抬头看着大人。
The tiny kid says, I need my mom.
小孩子说，我需要妈妈。
But nobody produces the mom.
但没有人生出妈妈。
When the video ends, the adults look like they're about to continue on and rejoin the chaos around them.
当视频结束时，大人们看起来要继续前进并重新加入周围的混乱之中。
The three kids are left there, holding hands.
三个孩子手拉着手留在那里。
Coming up-- a man-sized first-grader.
即将登场——一名男子身材的一年级学生。
That's in a minute, when our program continues.
一会儿之后，我们的节目就会继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Chana Joffe-Walt, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是查娜·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt)，代理艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
Today's show, we're talking about those experiences where you discover the grownups around you can and will fail you-- a revelation that can take a long time to sink in, as it does in our next story from comedian Gary Gulman.
今天的节目，我们谈论的是那些你发现周围的成年人可能并且将会令你失望的经历——这种启示可能需要很长时间才能被接受，就像我们在喜剧演员加里·古尔曼的下一个故事中那样。
That's Act Two, Dad's Big Idea.
这是第二幕，爸爸的伟大想法。
Gary Gulman tells a story on stage about something that happened when he was seven years old.
加里·古尔曼在舞台上讲述了他七岁时发生的一件事。
He was about to go into second grade.
他即将升入二年级。
And right before the school year started that September, his mom had some friends over one night.
那年九月学年开始前，他妈妈和一些朋友一起住了一晚。
So on that night in my house, there had to be 24 or 25 moms.
所以那天晚上在我家，一定有 24 或 25 个妈妈。
And in the 1970s, that meant there were probably four Carols.
在 20 世纪 70 年代，这意味着可能有四首颂歌。
There were six Phyllises or Phylli.
有六个菲利斯或菲莉。
There were two Auntie Judys, and there was one Just Judy.
有两个朱迪阿姨，还有一个只是朱迪。
And Just Judy was Judy Burns, who was royalty in our neighborhood, because she was the first-grade teacher, and she was also my next-door neighbor.
“Just Judy”就是朱迪·伯恩斯，她是我们社区的皇室成员，因为她是一年级老师，也是我的隔壁邻居。
And she was sitting in my kitchen.
她坐在我的厨房里。
It was like having a celebrity there, and-- and she was so down-to-earth.
这就像有一位名人在那里，而且——而且她是如此脚踏实地。
She was able to maintain that idea that Kipling so beautifully espoused in the poem, "If--," where she was able to walk with kings, yet keep the common touch.
她能够保持吉卜林在《如果——》这首诗中完美拥护的理念，在诗中她能够与国王同行，但又保持普通的接触。
She just sat like she was just one of us.
她只是坐着，好像她只是我们中的一员。
And so I was so excited to see her, and I tried to maintain my composure.
所以见到她我非常兴奋，我努力保持镇定。
But not only was she my favorite teacher, she was also the mother of my favorite person in the world-- Jonathan Burns.
但她不仅是我最喜欢的老师，也是我在世界上最喜欢的人乔纳森·伯恩斯的母亲。
Jonathan Burns was in fourth grade.
乔纳森·伯恩斯 (Jonathan Burns) 上四年级。
But in the 1970s, a fourth-grader was lawfully permitted to be your legal guardian.
但在 20 世纪 70 年代，四年级学生被合法允许成为你的法定监护人。
They permitted him to take me anywhere.
他们允许他带我去任何地方。
Two summers before, he had taken me to see Jaws-- when I was five.
两年前的夏天，他带我去看《大白鲨》——当时我五岁。
And I just loved Jonathan Burns, and his mom was in my kitchen.
我很喜欢乔纳森·伯恩斯，他的妈妈就在我的厨房里。
And I tried to play it cool and just-- I said, hey, Mrs. Burns, how was your summer?
我试着表现得冷静，只是——我说，嘿，伯恩斯太太，你的夏天过得怎么样？
And she said-- and she said, oh, it was excellent, Gary.
她说——她说，哦，太棒了，加里。
How was your summer?
你的夏天过得怎么样？
And I said, it was good.
我说，这很好。
It was good.
很好。
And then, I couldn't suppress my enthusiasm, and I just-- I cut right to the chase.
然后，我无法抑制自己的热情，我就直接切入主题了。
I said, you talk to Jonathan?
我说，你和乔纳森说话吗？
And she laughed.
她笑了。
She said, yes, Gary, I talk to my son nearly every day.
她说，是的，加里，我几乎每天都和我儿子说话。
And then, I ran out of small talk, and I thought I'd get in a little bit of business.
然后，我就不再闲聊了，我想我应该开始谈点正事了。
I wanted to get down to the nitty grit.
我想了解具体情况。
And I said, Mrs. Burns, um, I know this might be out of order and everything, but can you tell me who I'm going to have for second grade?
我说，伯恩斯太太，嗯，我知道这可能有点乱，但是你能告诉我二年级的学生是谁吗？
Am I going to have Morrison or Mrs. Turner?
我要选择莫里森还是特纳夫人？
And she looked at me in a way I felt there was something off.
她看着我的眼神让我觉得有些不对劲。
And she said, Gary, your father hasn't told you?
她说，加里，你父亲没有告诉过你吗？
And I said, no, I see him from noon to 7:00 on Sundays, according to the divorce decree.
我说，不，根据离婚令，我每周日中午到7:00见他。
And she said, well, Gary, your father went to the principal, and then the superintendent of schools, insisting that you repeat the first grade.
她说，好吧，加里，你父亲去找了校长，然后又去找了学监，坚持让你留级一年级。
And at that moment, I invented a phrase that is quite commonplace now but had never been uttered in September of 1977.
就在那时，我发明了一个现在很常见但在 1977 年 9 月从未说过的短语。
I said, "wait, what?"
我说：“等等，什么？”
I remember I said, but Mrs. Burns, I was in the top reading group, Sun Up.
我记得我说过，但伯恩斯夫人，我是顶级阅读小组的成员，Sun Up。
Sun Up was the top reading group.
Sun Up 是阅读量最高的小组。
We read beautifully, never had to put our finger under it, never had to sound anything out.
我们读得很漂亮，不需要把手指放在上面，也不需要读出任何东西。
The other groups-- ugh, it was like a sideshow.
其他小组——呃，这就像一场杂耍。
Isn't that how you determine whether somebody should go to second grade-- whether they can read?
这不就是你决定某人是否应该上二年级的方式吗——他们是否可以阅读？
I said, what reason did he give?
我说，他给出什么理由？
And she said, he didn't feel you were mature enough.
她说，他觉得你不够成熟。
And we showed him charts and studies showing what damage and impact this will have on a kid.
我们向他展示了图表和研究，显示这会对孩子造成什么损害和影响。
And yet, he said you weren't mature enough.
但他却说你还不够成熟。
He said, I know my son.
他说，我了解我的儿子。
And I said, he does?
我说，他愿意吗？
You're with me six hours a day, five days a week.
你每周和我在一起五天，每天六个小时。
I said, Mrs. Burns, I'm darn near precocious.
我说，伯恩斯太太，我简直太早熟了。
You know how a six-year-old boy knows he's precocious and how you can tell a six-year-old is precocious?
你知道一个六岁的男孩如何知道自己早熟以及如何判断一个六岁的孩子是否早熟？
He uses the word, "precocious." Because I'd been called it so frequently by so many teachers and parents in the neighborhood, and kids would tell me if my father says, you're precocious.
他用了“早熟”这个词。因为附近很多老师和家长经常这么称呼我，如果我父亲说，孩子们会告诉我，你很早熟。
I read-- my brothers-- my oldest brother was a senior accounting major, and he would open up his accounting textbook, point to a word-- it was his little parlor trick.
我读到——我的兄弟们——我的大哥是会计专业的高级学生，他会打开他的会计教科书，指着一个词——这是他的小把戏。
But we would do it in the living room.
但我们会在客厅里做。
Because we were not in a Tennessee Williams play.
因为我们不是在演田纳西·威廉姆斯的戏剧。
He would point to a word, and I would say it.
他会指着一个词，我就会说出来。
And he would always pick something that was obscure.
而且他总是会选择一些晦涩难懂的东西。
I remember one of the words he pointed to, and I said, oh, "fiduciary"?
我记得他指着一个词，我说，哦，“信托”？
I was reading at a 16th-grade level.
我当时的阅读水平是16年级。
And also mature, because you'll notice I didn't giggle at the "douche" in "fiduciary," which you aren't even able to claim.
而且也很成熟，因为你会注意到我没有对“信托”中的“混蛋”咯咯笑，而你甚至无法声称这一点。
When my father came that Sunday, I said, Dad, why am I-- why am I repeating the first grade?
那个星期天，当我父亲来的时候，我说，爸爸，我为什么要留级？
What about when the kids tease me?
当孩子们取笑我时怎么办？
And he said, you tell them your father didn't feel you were mature enough to go to second grade.
他说，你告诉他们你父亲觉得你还不够成熟，不能上二年级。
And I thought, oh, yeah, that'll mollify 'em.
我想，哦，是的，这会让他们平静下来。
And I remember, I asked my mom years later.
我记得，几年后我问过我妈妈。
I said, why did he hold me back, and why didn't you get in the way?
我说，他为什么拦着我，你为什么不挡路？
And she said, well, you know Daddy.
她说，好吧，你了解爸爸。
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
And she just was afraid to argue with him.
她只是害怕与他争论。
He could make her cry by getting very angry.
他很生气就能让她哭。
And the effect was almost immediate.
效果几乎是立竿见影的。
When I started my second run through first grade, it was just a new me.
当我开始第二次读一年级时，我焕然一新。
And it started this, just-- I zealously hated school.
事情就这样开始了，我非常讨厌学校。
I started faking sick.
我开始装病。
And then, I would start to get an anxious stomach every morning and just dread.
然后，我每天早上都会开始感到胃部焦虑，并且感到害怕。
And it just-- it was also very difficult to make friends, because I was not only emotionally and socially more mature than these kids, I was also physically much larger than-- I was the biggest kid in the grade the first time through first grade.
只是——交朋友也很困难，因为我不仅在情感和社交上比这些孩子更成熟，而且我的身体也比——我第一次到一年级时是年级里最大的孩子。
OK?
好的？
Second time, I looked like a teacher's aide.
第二次，我看起来像个助教。
And the effect that had on me-- and it was-- I wasn't aware of it, but I realize, looking back now, that since then, I've always been trying to prove to everyone that I'm "smaht." And you can see that just by the way I talk in my act for the past 30 years.
这对我产生的影响——确实是——我没有意识到，但现在回想起来，我意识到，从那时起，我一直在努力向每个人证明我是“聪明的”。从我过去30年的表演中说话的方式你就可以看出这一点。
My act is bombastic, I would say, even grandiloquent.
我想说，我的行为是夸张的，甚至是夸张的。
I love letting my wife or anyone know that I know.
我喜欢让我的妻子或任何人知道我知道。
We'll be listening to the radio, and she'll say, who sings this?
我们会听广播，她会说，这是谁唱的？
But I hear that as, hey, could you give me a two-hour lecture on the grunge era?
但我听到的是，嘿，你能给我一个关于垃圾摇滚时代的两个小时的讲座吗？
Also, could you assign me some reading?
另外，你能给我布置一些阅读吗？
I didn't bring it up for a long time with anybody.
我很长一段时间没有向任何人提起这件事。
I was ashamed about it.
我对此感到羞愧。
I would keep it to myself.
我会把它留给自己。
And the interesting thing about my dad is that-- I mean, was he a bad parent?
我父亲的有趣之处在于——我的意思是，他是一个坏父母吗？
Certainly.
当然。
But he was a good person.
但他是一个好人。
And the mystery, which I've thought of over the years, like why he would have done this-- maybe he wanted to-- because he only saw me once a week, he wanted to have some impact on me, perhaps.
多年来我一直在思考这个谜团，比如为什么他会这么做——也许他想这么做——因为他每周只见我一次，也许他想对我产生一些影响。
And then, I had this theory after hearing the Johnny Cash version of "A Boy Named Sue."
然后，在听了约翰尼·卡什版本的《一个名叫苏的男孩》后，我有了这个理论。
And "A Boy Named Sue" is this wonderful song that was actually written by Shel Silverstein, which feels really good to tell a room full of people that might not have known that it was written by Shel Silverstein.
《A Boy Named Sue》是一首美妙的歌曲，实际上是由谢尔·西尔弗斯坦 (Shel Silverstein) 创作的，这感觉真的很好，可以告诉一屋子可能不知道这首歌是由谢尔·西尔弗斯坦 (Shel Silverstein) 创作的人。
So I'm awash in dopamine and serotonin right now, as-- I've got the chills, as I tell you that Shel Silverstein wrote "A Boy Named Sue."
所以我现在充满了多巴胺和血清素，因为——我感到发冷，因为我告诉你谢尔·西尔弗斯坦写了《一个名叫苏的男孩》。
But "A Boy Named Sue" is basically about this boy named Sue.
但《一个名叫苏的男孩》基本上就是关于这个名叫苏的男孩的。
And his father left him at an early age.
而他的父亲在他很小的时候就离开了他。
And he said he named him Sue, so that he would have to get in a lot of fights, and it would toughen him up, and he would be strong enough to survive in a world without a father.
他说他给他起名叫苏，这样他就必须参加很多战斗，这会让他变得坚强，他会坚强到足以在没有父亲的世界里生存。
And sometimes I think maybe that was my dad's approach-- was that he knew he wasn't going to be around that much for me, and so he wanted to make sure that when he was around, he would make such foolish decisions, that I would actually be glad he wasn't around more.
有时我想，也许这就是我父亲的做法——他知道他不会在我身边那么多，所以他想确保当他在我身边时，他会做出如此愚蠢的决定，我真的会很高兴他不再在我身边。
All right.
好的。
Thank you very much, everybody.
非常感谢大家。
Good night.
晚安。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Gary Gulman recorded in Florida.
加里·古尔曼在佛罗里达录制。
He's on a tour, where he's doing standup based on stories in his new book.
他正在巡回演出，根据新书中的故事进行单口喜剧表演。
It's a memoir of his childhood, called Misfit.
这是他童年的回忆录，名叫《Misfit》。
Act Three, Ride or Die.
第三幕，骑马或死亡。
The idea that grownups don't have a handle on things-- there are kids for whom this is not a new realization-- kids who are more adult than the adults in their house.
成年人无法掌控事物的想法——对有些孩子来说这并不是一个新的认识——孩子们比家里的成年人更成熟。
These kids look at the conditions around them and understand that they are going to need to handle things.
这些孩子观察周围的情况并了解他们需要处理事情。
I keep thinking about this novel that captures the perspective of a kid like this so beautifully.
我一直在思考这本小说，它如此美丽地捕捉了这样一个孩子的视角。
The book is called Fight Night by Miriam Toews.
这本书的名字叫《战斗之夜》，作者是米里亚姆·托斯（Miriam Toews）。
The narrator is a nine-year-old named Swiv.
叙述者是一个九岁的孩子，名叫斯维夫。
Swiv lives with her mom and her grandma.
斯维夫与她的妈妈和奶奶住在一起。
Her grandma is wild, fun, and weird.
她的奶奶狂野、有趣、古怪。
The grandma homeschools Swiv, and her lessons are things like how to dig a winter grave, and let's analyze our dreams.
奶奶在家给斯维夫上学，她的课程是如何挖冬天的坟墓，让我们分析一下我们的梦想。
The grandma is also sick, so Swiv helps her bathe, keeps track of her medications for her and the tiny batteries for her hearing aids.
奶奶也病了，所以斯维夫帮她洗澡，为她记录药物和助听器的小电池。
She also helps her grandma cut up her favorite mystery novels into smaller sections.
她还帮助她的奶奶将她最喜欢的悬疑小说切成更小的部分。
Because the grandma likes to take thin pieces of her books with her when she goes out.
因为奶奶出去时喜欢带着薄薄的书本。
Swiv's mom is a working actor, struggling to get jobs.
斯维夫的妈妈是一名演员，正在努力寻找工作。
She's pregnant and seems to be suffering a mental health crisis.
她怀孕了，似乎正遭受心理健康危机。
As Swiv says, sometimes, quote, "Mom goes scorched-earth."
正如斯维夫有时所说的那样，“妈妈变得焦土了。”
It's rare to see these particular adults through the lens of a nine-year-old.
很少能通过九岁孩子的视角来看待这些特殊的成年人。
And she's such a nine-year-old.
而且她才九岁。
She's both naive and knowing.
她既天真又懂事。
Swiv is constantly interpreting these two women.
斯维夫不断地诠释着这两个女人。
She speaks the way they speak.
她说话的方式和他们说话的方式一样。
She believes what they believe.
她相信他们所相信的。
But then, she's not sure.
但接下来，她不确定。
A lot of the book is her reacting to them, figuring out what they have under control, and what she, Swiv, will need to take care of herself, including the baby coming.
书中的大部分内容都是她对他们的反应，弄清楚他们能控制什么，以及她，斯维夫，需要照顾自己，包括即将到来的婴儿。
Swiv calls the baby in her mom's belly "Gord," and she's often warning Gord about these crazy adults and how she'll have to prepare him.
斯维夫称她妈妈肚子里的婴儿为“戈德”，她经常警告戈德注意这些疯狂的成年人，以及她必须如何让他做好准备。
My favorite parts of the book are when Swiv is out in the world with her grandma and her mom, and you see how much she is constantly anticipating their behavior and trying, in her very kid way, to manage them.
这本书中我最喜欢的部分是当斯维夫和她的奶奶和妈妈一起外出时，你会看到她是多么地不断地预测他们的行为，并试图以她非常孩子的方式来管理他们。
And so here's an excerpt from Fight Night.
这是《战斗之夜》的摘录。
"Today was Thursday, and Grandma and I went to Scarborough for her body work.
“今天是星期四，我和奶奶去士嘉堡做身体锻炼。
And I did all our laundry for the trip to Fresno and went to Shoppers for Grandma's meds.
我为去弗雷斯诺的旅行洗了所有的衣服，然后去购物者那里买了奶奶的药。
On the way to Scarborough, Mom rode on the bus with us for four blocks and got mad at three men for not letting her or Grandma sit on the bench for old and pregnant people.
在去斯卡伯勒的路上，妈妈和我们一起坐公共汽车走了四个街区，对三个男人很生气，因为三个男人不让她或奶奶坐在老人和孕妇的长凳上。
I had already found another seat for Grandma, and Mom didn't really look very pregnant with her giant Inspector Gadget coat on.
我已经为奶奶找到了另一个座位，而妈妈穿着她那件巨大的“小玩意儿督察”外套，看起来并不像怀孕了。
So how were those men supposed to know?
那么那些人怎么会知道呢？
But naturally, Mom got mad anyway and said, excuse me, but these seats aren't meant for you.
但自然地，妈妈还是生气了，说，对不起，这些座位不适合你。
The men were all deaf, or they didn't want to answer her.
男人们都聋了，或者说他们不想回答她。
And they just stared at their phones or into space.
他们只是盯着手机或盯着太空。
Mom said she was pregnant and her mother was elderly, so could the men give them their seats.
妈妈说她怀孕了，妈妈年纪大了，男人们可以给他们让座吗？
One of the guys said congratulations but didn't move.
其中一个人说了声恭喜，但没有动。
Then Grandma hollered at Mom from the front of the bus and said, honey, it's fine.
然后奶奶在车前对妈妈喊道，亲爱的，没关系。
Swiv found me a seat.
斯维夫给我找了个座位。
Plus, Mom was getting off in five seconds at the theater.
另外，妈妈五秒钟后就在剧院下车了。
So why would she even want to sit down, and then leap up again right away?
那她为什么要坐下来，然后又立刻跳起来呢？
Mom said, OK, but that's not really the point.
妈妈说，好吧，但这不是重点。
And then, she stopped talking and stood there silently, like a normal person, which was such a relief that I almost started crying.
然后，她不再说话，像个正常人一样静静地站在那里，这让我松了口气，我差点哭了。
But then, no, she couldn't bear to be normal for more than four seconds, and she said to the woman standing next to her that this kind of thing made her mental.
但接下来，不，她无法忍受正常超过四秒，她对站在她旁边的女人说，这种事情让她精神失常。
And I wanted to tell the woman standing next to her that every kind of thing made Mom mental, and do not respond.
我想告诉站在她旁边的女人，每件事都让妈妈精神错乱，不要回应。
Grandma didn't hear anything, and just sat happily beside me reading one of her Dead Heat sections.
奶奶什么也没听到，只是高兴地坐在我旁边读她的《死热》部分。
I noticed a teenager looking at Grandma's sawed-up book.
我注意到一个十几岁的孩子正在看奶奶锯开的书。
and the teenager saw me looking at her, and then looked away.
那个少年看到我在看着她，然后就移开视线。
My family should never be out in the world.
我的家人永远不应该出现在外面的世界。
The woman standing next to Mom said, I know, right?
站在妈妈旁边的女人说，我知道，对吧？
I lose my shit.
我失去了我的狗屎。
Mom had found a crazy friend.
妈妈找到了一个疯狂的朋友。
I looked out the window and saw the theater where Mom rehearses and turned around to look at Mom and beg her with my eyes to get off the bus now, but without saying goodbye to me and without drawing any attention whatsoever to the fact that we know each other.
我向窗外望去，看到了妈妈正在排练的剧院，我转头看着妈妈，用眼神恳求她赶紧下车，但没有跟我说再见，也没有引起任何人注意我们认识的事实。
Oh, said Mom, my stop.
哦，妈妈说，我的站了。
Bye, honey, she said, don't forget to cross at the lights with Grandma, which made it sound like I was a stupid little kid who didn't know how to even live, when Grandma was the one who was hellbent for leather and wanted to jaywalk, but was too slow and distracted to dodge the cars properly and would almost get killed every time.
再见，亲爱的，她说，别忘了和奶奶一起过红绿灯，这听起来就像我是一个愚蠢的小孩子，甚至不知道如何生活，而奶奶却是那个一心想要皮革，想乱穿马路的人，但速度太慢，注意力不集中，无法正确躲避汽车，每次都差点被杀。
Mom pushed herself and Gord through the people standing in the aisle, and bent down to give me and Grandma kisses, and then had to shout at the bus driver, who was closing the door.
妈妈推着自己和戈德穿过站在过道上的人群，弯下腰亲吻我和奶奶，然后不得不对正在关门的公交车司机大喊大叫。
Wait, wait!
等等，等等！
This is my stop!
这是我的站！
The driver opened the door again and shook his head.
司机再次打开车门，摇摇头。
And Mom said, bye, guys, bye, honey, in a loud voice, waving directly at me, and then finally got off the fucking bus.
妈妈大声说，再见，伙计们，再见，亲爱的，直接向我挥手，然后终于下了他妈的公共汽车。
My face hurt.
我的脸受伤了。
I tried to drop my shoulders and read Dead Heat along with Grandma to take my mind off being the daughter of the world's most unstable person.
我试图放下肩膀，和奶奶一起读《死热》，以摆脱自己是世界上最不稳定的人的女儿的想法。
Then the lady Mom had made friends with was suddenly standing beside me and said in an even louder voice than Mom, oh, man, your mom is awesome.
然后那个和妈妈交朋友的女士突然站在我旁边，用比妈妈更大的声音说，哦，老兄，你妈妈太棒了。
She said it so loud, that even Grandma heard her.
她说得那么大声，连奶奶都听见了。
And she said, she is indeed.
她说，她确实是。
She's my daughter.
她是我的女儿。
One of the guys who hadn't given Mom his seat heard it, too, and said Mom was a crazy bitch.
一个没有给妈妈让座的人也听到了，并说妈妈是个疯狂的婊子。
Mom's new friend said, she's not a crazy bitch.
妈妈的新朋友说，她不是个疯女人。
You're a crazy bitch.
你是个疯狂的母狗。
The other two men who wouldn't give up their seats started laughing.
另外两个不肯让座的人也笑了起来。
Then Mom's new friend said to Grandma, oh, wow, you guys are three generations, which was like an obvious thing, not an oh-wow thing.
然后妈妈的新朋友对奶奶说，哦，哇，你们是三代人，这是显而易见的事情，而不是哦哇的事情。
One of the guys said, suck it, bitch.
其中一个家伙说，操蛋，婊子。
Grandma said, that we are, aren't I lucky?
奶奶说，我们是啊，我不是很幸运吗？
Mom's new friend said, fuck you, you fucking piece of shit.
妈妈的新朋友说，操你，你这个该死的混蛋。
The bus driver looked at everyone in his rearview mirror and said they had to behave themselves or get off the bus.
公交车司机看着后视镜里的每个人，说他们必须表现得规矩，否则就下车。
The lady talked away in her loud voice about wishing she could come home with us and be in our family.
这位女士大声地说道，希望她能和我们一起回家，加入我们的家庭。
I had to do something.
我必须做点什么。
I couldn't slice my head off by slamming the window on it, because they were sealed up to keep children safe.
我不能通过关上窗户来砍掉我的头，因为为了保证孩子们的安全，窗户是密封的。
I stood up and said, oh, Grandma, this is our stop.
我站起来说，哦，奶奶，这是我们的站。
Come on.
来吧。
Grandma said, what, we're nowhere near Scarborough.
奶奶说，什么，我们离斯卡伯勒还很远。
I said, I know, but first, we had to stop at this other place called-- I quickly looked out the window-- For Your Eyes Only.
我说，我知道，但首先，我们必须在另一个地方停下来——我很快地望向窗外——仅供你的眼睛使用。
Grandma looked out the window.
奶奶看着窗外。
What do you want with a gentleman's club, Swiv, she said.
你想要绅士俱乐部做什么，斯维夫，她说。
She started laughing with Mom's new friend.
她开始和妈妈的新朋友一起大笑。
I pulled Grandma up from her seat and stuffed her book section into my backpack.
我把奶奶从座位上拉起来，把她的书本塞进我的背包里。
Because it's where we're going, I said.
因为那是我们要去的地方，我说。
Bye, I said to the lady.
再见，我对那位女士说。
I whispered it.
我低声说道。
OK, said Grandma.
好的，奶奶说。
She shrugged.
她耸耸肩。
Looks like we've got an interesting itinerary.
看来我们的行程很有趣。
I pulled Grandma off the bus without saying thank you to the driver.
我把奶奶拉下了车，没有向司机道谢。
Mom can't stand it when people say thank you to the driver when they get out at their stop.
当人们在车站下车时向司机说谢谢时，妈妈无法忍受。
But Grandma thinks it's a decent thing to do.
但奶奶认为这是一件体面的事情。
She told Mom that people clap and applaud when Mom does her job of acting.
她告诉妈妈，当妈妈完成她的表演工作时，人们会鼓掌鼓掌。
So why shouldn't people clap for pilots when they land the plane or say thank you, at least, to a bus driver?
那么，为什么人们在飞机着陆时不应该为飞行员鼓掌，或者至少向公交车司机说谢谢呢？
Mom said applause seemed sarcastic and bizarre.
妈妈说掌声看起来很讽刺而且很奇怪。
She hates applause, even for herself.
她讨厌掌声，即使是为她自己。
And Grandma asked her how the audience is supposed to express their gratitude for her performance.
奶奶问她观众应该如何表达对她表演的感激之情。
And Mom said, just by sitting there quietly.
妈妈说，就静静地坐在那里。
Grandma said thank you to the bus driver, and he nodded very slowly.
奶奶对公交车司机说了声谢谢，他很缓慢地点点头。
My pleasure, he said, enjoy your day.
我很高兴，他说，祝你今天愉快。
Grandma wanted to say more about her day, but I pulled and pulled on her arm.
奶奶想更多地讲述她的一天，但我拉了又拉她的手臂。
And the driver shut the door, and we were finally alone on the sidewalk.
司机关上了门，人行道上终于只剩下我们了。
Grandma read the sign more closely.
奶奶更仔细地阅读了这个标志。
And then she stood back and looked at the giant pictures of naked women and started laughing her ass off again, because I, of all people, had wanted to get out at a strip club.
然后她退后一步，看着巨大的裸体女人照片，又开始笑得前仰后合，因为在所有人中，我最想在脱衣舞俱乐部脱身。
She had to lean against the building, right against one of the pictures of the naked ladies, to catch her breath.
她不得不靠在建筑物上，靠在一张裸体女士的照片上，才能喘口气。
I walked away down the sidewalk, so nobody would see me standing outside For Your Eyes Only, and left Grandma there struggling all by herself to live.
我沿着人行道走开，这样没人会看到我站在外面，只为你的眼睛，留下奶奶独自挣扎着生活。
She finally finished getting her breath back, and I said, come on, Grandma, let's go.
她终于恢复了呼吸，我说，走吧，奶奶，我们走吧。
I mean it.
我是说真的。
And then, believe it or not, she posed on the sidewalk in the same position as the naked lady in the picture, with her knees bent a bit, and her butt poking out, and her hands on her boobs.
然后，不管你信不信，她在人行道上摆出与照片中裸体女士相同的姿势，膝盖稍微弯曲，屁股伸出来，双手放在胸部上。
I looked down at the sidewalk for things to kill myself with.
我低头看着人行道，寻找可以自杀的东西。
There was nothing but globs of spit, and cigarette butts, and a flyer about the end of the world.
除了一团口水、烟头和一张关于世界末日的传单之外，什么也没有。
And then, Grandma was beside me.
然后，奶奶就在我身边。
And she took my arm, laughing, and said, ooh, boy!
她拉着我的胳膊，笑着说，哦，孩子！
Where to next?
接下来去哪里？
That's from the book Fight Night by Miriam Toews.
这是米里亚姆·托斯 (Miriam Toews) 所著的《格斗之夜》一书中的内容。
The audio you heard was excerpted from the official audiobook, which is narrated by the author and Georgia Toews and came to us, courtesy of Recorded Books.
您听到的音频摘自官方有声读物，由作者和 Georgia Toews 旁白，并由 Recorded Books 提供给我们。
Our program was produced today by me and edited by Emanuele Berry.
今天我们的节目由我制作并由 Emanuele Berry 编辑。
The people who put together today's show include James Bennett II, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Bethel Habte, Cassie Howley, Valerie Kipnis, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 James Bennett II、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Bethel Habte、Cassie Howley、Valerie Kipnis、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Special thanks today to Abraham Oleksnianski, Marianne McCune, Jessica Mendoza, Brooke Yarbrough, Juan "Punchy" Gonzalez, Paige Duggins-Clay, Erin Einhorn, David Riedman, Amy Klinger, Andrew Hairston, Russell Skiba, and Alaa Mustafa.
今天特别感谢亚伯拉罕·奥莱克斯尼安斯基 (Abraham Oleksnianski)、玛丽安·麦库恩 (Marianne McCune)、杰西卡·门多萨 (Jessica Mendoza)、布鲁克·亚伯勒 (Brooke Yarbrough)、胡安·“Punchy”·冈萨雷斯 (Juan "Punchy" Gonzalez)、佩奇·杜金斯·克莱 (Paige Duggins-Clay)、艾琳·艾因霍恩 (Erin Einhorn)、大卫·里德曼 (David Riedman)、艾米·克林格 (Amy Klinger)、安德鲁·海尔斯顿 (Andrew Hairston)、拉塞尔·斯基巴 (Russell Skiba) 和阿拉·穆斯塔法 (Alaa Mustafa)。
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 -- thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 700 多集档案。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to my boss, Ira Glass.
一如既往地感谢我的老板艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
Did you guys know that Ira's known me since I was a baby?
你们知道艾拉从我还是个婴儿的时候就认识我了吗？
I asked him recently if he knew way back when that one day, I would host his radio show.
我最近问他是否知道有一天我会主持他的广播节目。
He said he was sure it would never happen.
他说他确信这永远不会发生。
Like, even though, as a baby, I knew you were a flawed person, I just didn't expect that from you.
就像，尽管在我还是个婴儿的时候，我就知道你是一个有缺陷的人，但我只是没想到你会这样。
Well, here I am.
好吧，我在这里。
I'm Chana Joffe-Walt.
我是查娜·乔夫-沃尔特。
Ira will be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉将于下周带着更多《美国生活》的故事回来。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。