811: The One Place I Can’t Go - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #811 | September 29, 2023 811: The One Place I Can’t Go Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 811 集 | 2023 年 9 月 29 日 811：我不能去的一个地方 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Bim Adewunmi From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Bim Adewunmi，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Bim Adewunmi, in for Ira Glass.
我是 Bim Adewunmi，代表 Ira Glass。
My younger cousin, Kamyl, is not really a dog person, but there is one dog she adored.
我的表弟卡米尔并不是真正的爱狗人士，但她很喜欢一只狗。
Her name was Foxy, because she looked exactly like a fox, except she was black.
她的名字叫“狐狸”，因为她看起来就像一只狐狸，只不过她是黑色的。
She was the neighbor's dog, but she and Kamyl seemed to have a real kinship, maybe because they both weren't very far from the ground.
她是邻居家的狗，但她和卡米尔似乎有真正的亲属关系，也许是因为它们都离地面不是很远。
Kamyl was around four or five years old back then, and she had a little lisp, so "Foxy" came out as "Fozhy." I thought it was one of the cutest things I'd ever heard.
Kamyl当时大约四五岁，有点口齿不清，所以“Foxy”就变成了“Fozhy”。我认为这是我听过的最可爱的事情之一。
The way Kamyl remembers Foxy, it's almost like a movie.
卡米尔对福克斯的记忆几乎就像一部电影一样。
Her memories feel like endless summer, hazy and perfect, like a scene shot on crackly film.
她的记忆就像无尽的夏天，朦胧而完美，就像胶片上拍摄的场景。
I just remember the feeling of being excited to go and see Foxy.
我只记得去见福克西时那种兴奋的感觉。
I have an image in my head of coming to the house, and I could see Foxy was outside.
我的脑海里浮现出来到这所房子的画面，我可以看到福克西就在外面。
But I can see Foxy through the door that leads to the garden.
但我可以透过通向花园的门看到福克西。
There's a story about Kamyl and Foxy that I think about fairly often.
我经常想起一个关于卡梅尔和福克西的故事。
I've talked about it with my sister for years, but never with Kamyl.
我和我姐姐谈论这件事已经很多年了，但从来没有和卡米尔谈论过。
And it's this.
就是这个。
Once when they were playing, Foxy nipped at Kamyl, nothing serious, just an excited kid playing with an excited dog.
有一次他们玩耍的时候，福克西咬了卡米尔，没什么大事，只是一个兴奋的孩子在和一只兴奋的狗玩耍。
One minute they were playing, half under the coffee table in the middle of the room.
一分钟前他们还在房间中间的咖啡桌下玩耍。
And the next, they weren't.
而接下来，他们就没有了。
There was no need to go to the hospital or anything, but it was enough to startle Kamyl and to make her cry.
不需要去医院什么的，但这足以让卡米尔吓到并让她哭泣。
But it's what happened after that I think about the most.
但我想得最多的还是那之后发生的事情。
The day after Foxy nipped her, Kamyl went right back to playing with the dog, but she would not go back to the place where the nip happened.
福克西咬了她的第二天，卡米尔就回去和狗一起玩，但她不会回到咬伤发生的地方。
If her feet unthinkingly moved her towards the coffee table, she'd redirect.
如果她的脚不假思索地将她移向咖啡桌，她就会改变方向。
She'd swerve her little body around it.
她会绕着它转动她小小的身体。
Instead of avoiding the dog, she steered clear of the place.
她没有避开那只狗，而是避开了这个地方。
When I brought this up to Kamyl, she had no memory of doing it.
当我向卡米尔提起这件事时，她不记得做过这件事。
Yes.
是的。
Kamyl Did they put a treat in that area and I just would not go there?
Kamyl 他们在那个区域放了零食吗，而我就是不去那里？
I mean, you're talking like you're the dog.
我的意思是，你说得好像你是狗一样。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Yeah, I guess.
是的，我想。
Did anyone sit me down to talk about, oh, Kamyl, why don't you go to that corner?
有没有人让我坐下来谈谈，哦，卡米尔，你为什么不去那个角落？
I don't know.
我不知道。
That suggests that we were mature enough to try and help you solve the problem.
这表明我们已经足够成熟，可以尝试帮助您解决问题。
I think we just found it funny that you avoided the area.
我想我们只是觉得你避开这个区域很有趣。
I think we were all kind of like, watch this.
我想我们都有点像，看这个。
Watch this.
注意这个。
And then we'd try and get you to come around, and then we'd laugh when you wouldn't, which is very cruel, in hindsight.
然后我们会试图让你改变主意，然后当你不肯改变时我们会笑，事后看来这是非常残酷的。
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
And even more curious, Kamyl still seems to have a hard time fathoming this, that Foxy, her beloved friend, could even unwittingly hurt her.
更奇怪的是，卡米尔似乎仍然很难理解这一点，她心爱的朋友福克斯甚至会在不知不觉中伤害她。
20-ish years later, she still won't let herself go there.
20多年过去了，她仍然不肯放过自己。
A part of me is like-- you know African parents.
我的一部分就像——你认识非洲父母。
They like to overexaggerate.
他们喜欢过度夸张。
She probably just licked me.
她可能只是舔了我。
She didn't lick you.
她没有舔你。
[LAUGHS] She didn't lick you.
[笑]她没有舔你。
She definitely nipped you, but I love how-- you're doing it again.
她确实咬了你，但我喜欢你又这么做了。
You're recasting the past.
你正在重塑过去。
You're like, no. Did she?
你就像，不。她是吗？
She did.
她做到了。
Because it's weird.
因为这很奇怪。
It's weird that I don't remember it.
奇怪的是我不记得了。
It would be different if I'm like, I don't remember it.
如果我不记得了，那就不一样了。
Avoidance is a surprisingly common reaction to information that might knock us off kilter, shying away from the things we cannot wrap our minds around.
回避是对可能让我们失去平衡的信息的一种常见反应，回避那些我们无法集中注意力的事情。
It's self-preservation.
这是自我保护。
The world is so full of dangerous things, things that might hurt us if we look too closely at them.
这个世界充满了危险的事物，如果我们过于仔细地观察它们，它们可能会伤害我们。
So we avoid.
所以我们避免。
We circumvent.
我们规避。
We choose not to go there.
我们选择不去那里。
That's our show today in three acts, people finding there's one place in their lives they simply can't access for reasons that, sometimes, even they don't fully understand.
这就是我们今天的三幕剧，人们发现他们的生活中有一个地方他们根本无法进入，有时甚至连他们自己也不完全理解。
There's just a mental "keep out" sign on the door, do not look.
门上只是有一个心理“禁止入内”的标志，不要看。
Do not pass go.
不过去就走。
Do not collect $200.
不要收取 200 美元。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
I Coulda Grown Big in Japan.
我可以在日本长大。
Atsuko Okatsuka is a comedian, and she's incredibly close with her grandma, Ying-Hsi.
冈冢敦子是一位喜剧演员，她和奶奶英熙的关系非常亲密。
They talk several times a day.
他们一天聊好几次。
They're together every weekend.
他们每个周末都在一起。
And Atsuko makes these incredible videos of herself dancing, while her grandmother plays incidental hype woman.
敦子制作了这些令人难以置信的自己跳舞的视频，而她的祖母则扮演偶然的炒作女人。
Her grandma raised her, but for a while now, Atsuko has joked on stage that her grandmother stole her from her dad when she was little and brought her and her mother from Japan to live in the US.
她的祖母抚养她长大，但有一段时间，敦子在舞台上开玩笑说，她小时候祖母从她父亲那里偷走了她，并把她和她的母亲从日本带到了美国生活。
From the outside, she looks like this sweet, unassuming old Asian woman, but she's a liar.
从外表上看，她就像一位甜美、谦逊的亚洲老妇人，但她是个骗子。
[LAUGHTER] She a liar.
[笑声]她是个骗子。
When I was eight, she told me we were coming to the States for a two-month vacation, so I packed lightly.
当我八岁的时候，她告诉我我们要来美国度两个月的假期，所以我轻装上阵。
And then we never left.
然后我们就再也没有离开过。
Yeah, true story, yeah, yeah.
是的，真实的故事，是的，是的。
And till this day, we're still dealing with the kidnapping in our own ways.
直到今天，我们仍在以自己的方式处理绑架事件。
But the truth is, Atsuko only has the sketchiest idea of what really happened.
但事实是，敦子对到底发生了什么只有最粗略的了解。
She doesn't really know how she ended up in America.
她真的不知道自己是如何来到美国的。
Her family doesn't discuss it.
她的家人不讨论这件事。
Talking about it has been a no-go zone for her and her family.
对她和她的家人来说，谈论这件事一直是禁区。
But recently, Atsuko decided to find out.
但最近，敦子决定找出答案。
Because my family doesn't talk about this, as a kid, all I knew was I was living in Japan, and suddenly I wasn't.
因为我的家人不谈论这个，小时候，我只知道我住在日本，但突然间我就不再生活了。
I was separated from my dad and my friends.
我与父亲和朋友分开了。
I was forced to go to school in America and learn English and start a new life.
我被迫去美国上学，学习英语并开始新的生活。
I went by "Stacey" for two months.
我用“史黛西”称呼了两个月。
It was jarring and confusing, and I blamed my dad for giving up on us and leaving us in America.
这让我感到不安和困惑，我责怪我的父亲放弃了我们，把我们留在了美国。
Then, as an adult, that shifted.
然后，作为一个成年人，情况发生了变化。
I decided my grandma was the bad guy.
我认定我奶奶是坏人。
She stole me away from my dad, and he was the victim.
她把我从我父亲身边偷走了，而他就是受害者。
But I never asked anybody the hard questions to find out the actual truth.
但我从未向任何人提出过尖锐的问题来找出真相。
It was way easier to just talk about it on stage, where nobody could fight you on whether it's real or not.
在舞台上谈论它要容易得多，没有人可以与你争论它是否真实。
That's why I love standup.
这就是为什么我喜欢站立。
Nobody talks back to you.
没有人跟你顶嘴。
It's good for people who don't want to process feelings.
这对于那些不想处理感情的人来说是有好处的。
And then my dad had a stroke.
然后我爸爸中风了。
He survived it and is recovering, but it was kind of a wake-up call.
他幸存下来并正在康复，但这就像一个警钟。
Am I really going to never ask what happened with my move to the United States?
我真的永远不会问我搬到美国后发生了什么吗？
I mean, it was the biggest event in my life.
我的意思是，这是我一生中最重要的事件。
It completely changed everything.
它彻底改变了一切。
Time to get answers.
是时候得到答案了。
Was I kidnapped?
我被绑架了吗？
What really happened?
究竟发生了什么？
I'm recording.
我正在录音。
Test, test.
测试，测试。
OK.
好的。
OK.
好的。
Oh, Grandma--
哦，奶奶——
So I started with my grandma, the perpetrator, and confronted her face to face.
于是我就从肇事者奶奶开始，与她面对面地对质。
She and my mom lived just 20 minutes away.
她和我妈妈住在离这里只有 20 分钟路程的地方。
That's what I tell audiences.
这就是我告诉观众的。
When I perform I say, yeah, my grandma pretty much kidnapped me.
当我表演时，我说，是的，我奶奶几乎绑架了我。
[SPEAKING MANDARIN] Ying-Hsi Li [LAUGHS] [SPEAKING MANDARIN]
[说普通话] 李英熙 [笑] [说普通话]
Atsuko Okatsuka She's saying in Mandarin, "There's no such thing.
冈冢敦子 她用普通话说道：“没有这样的事。
I didn't kidnap you."
我没有绑架你。”
"When people kidnap a child, they demand money, ransom to return the child.
“当人们绑架一个孩子时，他们会索要金钱、赎金来归还孩子。
But we didn't ask for that, so it doesn't count as kidnapping."
但我们没有要求这样做，所以这不算绑架。”
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
She didn't ask for ransom.
她没有索要赎金。
She's still a kidnapper, she's just bad at it.
她还是个绑匪，只是干得不好。
She took a kid to raise for free.
她免费抚养了一个孩子。
Can you imagine trying to negotiate with a kidnapper, and you're like, please, how much money do you want?
你能想象一下尝试与绑匪谈判时你会问你想要多少钱吗？
I just want my kid back.
我只想让我的孩子回来。
And they're like, oh, no. It's on me.
他们就像，哦，不。就在我身上。
Free.
自由的。
In fact, I'll take her to LA for you.
事实上，我会帮你带她去洛杉矶。
I think she's going to be a star.
我认为她会成为明星。
I'm glad my grandma and I can joke about these things today.
我很高兴我和奶奶今天能拿这些事情开玩笑。
We sat on a couch in her living room.
我们坐在她客厅的沙发上。
I told her, I think our family has a habit of not speaking about difficult things.
我告诉她，我觉得我们家有不讲难事的习惯。
As we talk, my mom interrupts us from the top of the stairs.
当我们说话时，我妈妈在楼梯顶上打断了我们。
My mom lives with her.
我妈妈和她住在一起。
You guys need to go away.
你们需要离开。
Atsuko Okatsuka OK, Mom.
冈冢敦子 好的，妈妈。
She's asking my grandmother to please not talk about these sad things.
她请求我的祖母不要谈论这些悲伤的事情。
It'll affect how I see my life.
它会影响我如何看待我的生活。
[SPEAKING MANDARIN] "It won't.
[说普通话]“不会的。
I asked her," I yelled.
我问她，”我喊道。
"Don't say it," she says.
“别说出来，”她说。
"Try not to talk about anything too sad."
“尽量不要谈论任何太悲伤的事情。”
Be happy.
要开心。
Atsuko Okatsuka It's good to talk about the past.
冈冢敦子 谈论过去真好。
My mom goes back to her room.
我妈妈回到她的房间。
So a big reason why we don't talk about things is because of my mom.
所以我们不谈论事情的一个重要原因是因为我妈妈。
She has paranoid schizophrenia, and talking about sad things can trigger bad memories and the voices in her head.
她患有偏执型精神分裂症，谈论悲伤的事情会引发不好的记忆和脑海中的声音。
So any time we want to talk about the past, we have to tiptoe around her.
所以每当我们想谈论过去时，我们都必须小心翼翼地绕过她。
We whisper or just avoid it completely.
我们窃窃私语或完全避免它。
And that's how our family has always done things.
我们家一直都是这样做的。
We didn't even talk about how my mom has schizophrenia.
我们甚至没有谈论我妈妈是如何患有精神分裂症的。
As a kid, my grandma would just say, oh, your mom just has low blood sugar.
小时候，我奶奶只会说，哦，你妈妈只是低血糖。
She's hungry.
她饿了。
When she was clearly wilding out, throwing plates at Grandma.
当她明显发疯，向奶奶扔盘子时。
It's like, uh, she needs professional help not bread.
就像，呃，她需要专业帮助而不是面包。
I was eager to hear my dad's side of this.
我很想听听我父亲对此的看法。
For starters, when they divorced, did he have custody of me?
首先，他们离婚时，他有我的监护权吗？
Because if he did, this seems way more like a real kidnapping.
因为如果他这样做了，这看起来更像是一场真正的绑架。
And did he even know that my grandma was taking me to the US?
他甚至知道我奶奶要带我去美国吗？
We talk, like, once a month.
我们一个月聊一次。
We reconnected when I was 15.
当我15岁的时候，我们重新建立了联系。
So I flew to Japan to see him.
于是我飞到日本去看他。
So we just came from my dad's house.
所以我们刚从我爸爸家回来。
Now we're at my elementary school.
现在我们在我的小学。
This is where I would go to school.
这就是我要去上学的地方。
When my dad and I see each other, we try to do as much as we can.
当我和爸爸见面时，我们会尽力做一些事情。
He's up for anything, like getting on a big pink dog seesaw with me at the playground to shoot a little video.
他愿意做任何事，比如和我一起在操场上玩一个粉色的大狗跷跷板来拍摄一段小视频。
Reliving childhood, things we never got to do together.
重温童年，我们从未一起做过的事情。
Hurry.
匆忙。
Have fun.
玩得开心。
Ahh, ha!
啊哈！
I have all these memories of what it was like to live with my dad.
我对和父亲一起生活的一切记忆犹新。
I'd stay up and welcome him home from work.
我会熬夜欢迎他下班回家。
He'd make instant Japanese curry out of a bag for me.
他会用袋子给我做速食日本咖喱。
Then he would lay on his side on the floor and watch the news before bedtime.
然后他会侧躺在地板上，在睡前看新闻。
I would lay beside him, copying his pose.
我会躺在他旁边，模仿他的姿势。
I wanted to be like him
我想成为像他一样的人
We walk across the street from my old elementary school to an old apartment building.
我们从我以前的小学穿过马路，来到一栋旧公寓楼。
There was a period I lived here, in Japan, with my mom and grandma, separated from my dad.
有一段时间，我和妈妈、奶奶住在日本，与爸爸分开。
Me, my mom, and Grandma lived right there.
我、我妈妈和奶奶就住在那里。
This unit was ours, in fact.
事实上，这个单位是我们的。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
After I divorced you mother, sometimes I come here, a little drunk, and put in here hundred dollar.
我和你妈妈离婚后，有时我会来这里，喝得有点醉，并在这里存一百美元。
Really?
真的吗？
Sometimes he would get drunk and just drop off a hundred-dollar bills for us.
有时他会喝醉，然后给我们扔下一百美元的钞票。
[INAUDIBLE] Atsuko Okatsuka I didn't know that.
[听不清] Atsuko Okatsuka 我不知道这一点。
Because you missed me?
因为你想念我？
[INAUDIBLE] Atsuko Okatsuka Dad, that's so sad.
[听不清] 冈冢敦子爸爸，这太悲伤了。
That's so sad.
太悲伤了。
I miss you all the time.
我无时无刻都在想念你。
I love you so much.
我真的很爱你。
I do.
我愿意。
We head across the street.
我们穿过马路。
Atsuko Okatsuka It's full of sad stories, but I guess I am, too.
冈冢敦子 充满了悲伤的故事，但我想我也是。
I feel like a drink already.
我已经想喝一杯了。
After I came to the US, there were seven years where my dad and I didn't see each other.
我来美国后，我和爸爸有七年没有见面了。
He wrote me letters, but after a while, I couldn't read them anymore, because my Japanese had gotten so bad.
他给我写信，但过了一段时间，我就读不下去了，因为我的日语太糟糕了。
It made me too sad to know we couldn't really communicate anymore, so I stopped writing him back.
知道我们无法再真正沟通让我感到非常难过，所以我不再给他回信。
Then, when I was 15, I asked him to come visit, and we've been talking ever since.
然后，当我 15 岁的时候，我邀请他来拜访，从那时起我们就一直在聊天。
But it's never been the same as when I used to lay next to him on the floor.
但这与我以前躺在他旁边的地板上时的感觉完全不一样了。
Now, I sat him down to do an interview in my hotel room in Tokyo.
现在，我在东京的酒店房间里让他坐下来接受采访。
I had an interpreter help us, so our conversation might sound more formal than usual.
我有一名翻译帮助我们，所以我们的谈话可能听起来比平时更正式。
We are very Japanese, and a stranger will do that to us.
我们是非常日本人，陌生人会对我们做这种事。
But it also helped us not cry as much, which is really cool and also very Japanese.
但这也帮助我们不再哭得那么厉害，这真的很酷，也很日本化。
So when you and Mom separated, what was the arrangement for how much you would see me?
那你和妈妈分开后，你见我的次数是怎样安排的呢？
What was the custody situation?
羁押情况如何？
I'm curious about that.
我对此很好奇。
[SPEAKING JAPANESE] Dad Through Interpreter I have custody.
[说日语] 爸爸通过翻译我拥有监护权。
Normally in Japan, when a husband and wife separate, the mother normally gets custody.
通常在日本，当丈夫和妻子分居时，母亲通常获得监护权。
But when we separated, your mom had a mental illness.
但当我们分开时，你妈妈患有精神疾病。
So I thought, will your mom be able to take care of you OK?
于是我就想，你妈妈能照顾你吗？
So because I was worried about that, I deliberately got custody of you.
所以我因为担心这个，所以特意把你抚养了。
Which means I was kidnapped.
这意味着我被绑架了。
It's a kidnapping.
这是一场绑架。
I told you it was, but why did my grandma kidnap me?
我告诉过你是的，但是我奶奶为什么要绑架我？
And why didn't he stop it?
他为什么不阻止呢？
Before I get to his answer, I should probably explain a little about his relationship with my mom and how unusual it is.
在我得到他的答案之前，我可能应该解释一下他和我妈妈的关系以及这种关系是多么不寻常。
This is the part of the story I knew before I flew to Japan.
这是我在飞往日本之前所知道的故事的一部分。
So my mom and dad met through the speed dating event in Japan that my grandma signed my mom up for.
我妈妈和爸爸是通过我奶奶为我妈妈报名参加的日本快速约会活动认识的。
She worried my mom was getting older and decided she was going to have to step in if my mom was ever going to find someone.
她担心我妈妈变老了，并决定如果我妈妈要找人，她就必须介入。
She and my mom were in Taiwan, so they flew to Tokyo for the event.
她和我妈妈在台湾，所以他们飞往东京参加活动。
Yeah, both of them.
是的，他们两个。
My grandma has to tag along to everything.
凡事都要我奶奶跟着。
That way, she can make sure everything is perfect.
这样，她就能确保一切都很完美。
That's where my parents met.
那是我父母相遇的地方。
After just a few dates, they got married, and it was great for a bit, or so my dad has told me.
约会了几次之后，他们就结婚了，这真是一段美好的时光，至少我爸爸是这么告诉我的。
Unfortunately for me, my parents both say their connection had a lot to do with lust, which is cool.
对我来说不幸的是，我的父母都说他们的联系与欲望有很大关系，这很酷。
I think everyone should experience that in their lives.
我认为每个人都应该在生活中经历这一点。
And honestly, talking about sex is the only time I've ever seen my mom really light up.
老实说，谈论性是我唯一一次看到我妈妈真正高兴起来。
It's kind of sweet, actually.
其实有点甜。
She told me they'd go to porn theaters together and would make love listening to Elvis.
她告诉我他们会一起去色情剧院，并会听猫王的音乐做爱。
And when they'd get into fights, my mom would accuse my dad of only wanting her for her body.
当他们打架时，我妈妈会指责我爸爸只想要她的身体。
Gross, I know.
恶心，我知道。
And then they'd do it even more.
然后他们会做得更多。
Ugh.
啊。
I'm surprised I don't have siblings.
我很惊讶我没有兄弟姐妹。
I mean, I do, but they're from my dad's previous marriage.
我是说，我确实有，但它们是我父亲前一段婚姻留下的。
And that's who my mom moved in with.
这就是我妈妈搬来和他一起住的人。
She became a stepmom to a boy and a girl.
她成为一个男孩和一个女孩的继母。
And it got pretty bad.
情况变得很糟糕。
I mean, my mom didn't know anybody in Japan.
我的意思是，我妈妈在日本不认识任何人。
She had no friends.
她没有朋友。
She didn't speak the language.
她不会说这种语言。
She never even dated anyone before my dad.
在我爸爸之前，她从未和任何人约会过。
So then to have to suddenly move in with a family and try to fit in, it was too much.
所以后来不得不突然搬去和一个家庭住在一起并试图融入其中，这实在是太过分了。
My mom would get jealous whenever my dad paid attention to my half siblings over her.
每当我爸爸关注我同父异母的兄弟姐妹而不是她时，我妈妈就会嫉妒。
My dad told me she would throw things at them and get wildly abusive.
我爸爸告诉我，她会向他们扔东西，并疯狂地辱骂他们。
One time, on my sister's birthday, when she had her friends over, my mom came home and lost it at the site of the party.
有一次，在我姐姐的生日那天，当她邀请她的朋友过来时，我妈妈回到家，在聚会现场把它弄丢了。
She threw my sister's cake across the room, kicked all her friends out, and then started pulling my sister's hair until my dad stopped her.
她把我姐姐的蛋糕扔到房间另一边，把她所有的朋友都赶了出去，然后开始拉我姐姐的头发，直到我爸爸阻止她。
So they divorced right after they had me.
所以他们在有了我之后就离婚了。
I don't even remember my parents together.
我什至不记得我的父母在一起。
After they split up, my mom and grandma went back to Taiwan, and I was living with my dad and his two kids in Chiba, an hour outside of Tokyo.
他们分手后，我的妈妈和奶奶回到了台湾，我和爸爸以及他的两个孩子住在千叶，距离东京一小时车程。
But now my dad tells me things I'd never heard.
但现在我爸爸告诉我一些我从未听过的事情。
He says my half siblings didn't really like me because of the way my mom had treated them, and that worried my dad.
他说我的同父异母的兄弟姐妹并不真正喜欢我，因为我妈妈对待他们的方式，这让我爸爸很担心。
Your relationship with those two children was not very-- I don't really want to say this.
你和那两个孩子的关系不太——我真的不想这么说。
But those children were sometimes kind of bullied by your mom.
但那些孩子有时会被你妈妈欺负。
I felt that if everybody lived together that it would not be good.
我觉得如果大家都住在一起的话那就不好了。
You might be fighting all the time.
你们可能一直在战斗。
Sometimes, he'd dropped me off to live with his parents because of my siblings, and because he was a single dad, already barely holding everything together with a full-time job as an engineer at a big company.
有时，他会因为我的兄弟姐妹的原因让我去和他的父母住在一起，也因为他是一个单身父亲，在一家大公司担任工程师的全职工作已经勉强维持一切。
And then sometimes, my mom and grandma would take the three-hour flight from Taiwan, and my dad would let them take me back to live with them for short periods.
有时，我的妈妈和奶奶会从台湾乘坐三个小时的航班，我爸爸会让他们带我回去和他们住一段时间。
I was like a hot potato, except in this game, everyone wanted me.
我就像一个烫手山芋，除了在这场比赛中，每个人都想要我。
So I was more like mashed potato?
所以我更像土豆泥？
Anyway, I asked my grandma about this, but there's a lot of words I don't know in Mandarin, so I had an interpreter help me.
不管怎样，我问了我奶奶这件事，但我不懂普通话，所以我请了翻译来帮助我。
Grandma told me how hard it was for her every time she'd see me, and then had to drop me off again at my dad's.
奶奶每次见到我都告诉我她有多难受，然后又不得不把我送到我爸爸那里。
I kept crying on my way to the airport.
在去机场的路上我一直在哭。
I cried all the way from Japan to Taiwan, because I couldn't bear being away from you.
我从日本一路哭到台湾，因为我无法忍受离开你。
They heard how mean my half sister was to me, and they saw that my dad had to put me in daycare during the day.
他们听说我同父异母的姐姐对我有多刻薄，他们看到我爸爸白天不得不把我送去日托中心。
We saw you, how miserable you were.
我们看到了你，你有多痛苦。
You seemed so lonely.
你看起来很孤独。
So we decided, without hesitation, that we needed to take you with us.
所以我们毫不犹豫地决定带你一起去。
My dad explained what happened next.
我爸爸解释了接下来发生的事情。
So one day, when I was in the first grade and living with him, we went out and ran into my mom and grandma, right in Chiba, where he lives.
所以有一天，当我上一年级并和他住在一起时，我们出去遇到了我的妈妈和奶奶，就在他居住的千叶县。
My dad was really surprised.
我爸爸真的很惊讶。
We ran across each other by chance at the 7-Eleven supermarket.
我们在7-11超市偶然相遇。
Then they said to me, why don't we talk a little?
然后他们对我说，我们为什么不谈谈呢？
I like that they just accidentally ran into him, like an ex who's not over the relationship.
我喜欢他们只是意外地遇到了他，就像一个尚未结束这段关系的前任。
Like, oh, my god.
就像，哦，天哪。
You shop here, too?
你也在这里买东西吗？
What are you doing here?
你在这里做什么？
And it's like, yeah.
就像，是的。
I live here.
我住在这里。
What are you doing here?
你在这里做什么？
You live in Taiwan!
你住在台湾！
So we went to my house in Chiba.
所以我们去了我在千叶的家。
It was the four of us, myself, you, your grandma, and your mom.
这是我们四个人，我，你，你的奶奶，还有你的妈妈。
I'm not sure what exactly happened, but you, your mom, and your grandma went outside, and then none of you came back.
我不知道到底发生了什么，但你、你妈妈和你奶奶出去了，然后就没有人回来了。
So it was almost like they ran away or they took you with them.
所以这几乎就像他们逃跑了或者带走了你一样。
[SPEAKING JAPANESE] Atsuko Okatsuka It's stories like that that I think back about and worry, like, oh, my gosh.
[说日语] 冈冢敦子 类似的故事让我回想起并担心，就像，哦，天哪。
If I were you, I would be so upset.
如果我是你，我会很沮丧。
That's like an action movie.
这就像一部动作片。
That's kidnapping.
这就是绑架。
[CHUCKLES] Atsuko Okatsuka That's right.
[笑] 冈冢敦子 是的。
They flew into Chiba from Taiwan, rented an apartment close to him, and took me away after running into my dad at a store.
他们从台湾飞到千叶，在他附近租了一套公寓，在商店遇到我爸爸后就带我走了。
I got to give it to them, that's commitment.
我必须把它交给他们，这就是承诺。
I had no idea that's how much they wanted to be with me.
我不知道他们有多想和我在一起。
Anyway, that was kidnapping number one, almost like a rehearsal for the big heist that would come later.
无论如何，那是第一次绑架，几乎就像是为后来的大抢劫进行的预演。
So I started living with my mom and grandma, just a 15-minute walk away from my dad in that apartment across from my elementary school.
于是我开始和妈妈和奶奶住在一起，住在我小学对面的公寓里，距离我爸爸只有 15 分钟的步行路程。
I think they stayed in Japan because they didn't want to disrupt my life too much, and they hoped my dad and mom might still get back together.
我想他们留在日本是因为他们不想太多地打扰我的生活，他们希望我的爸爸和妈妈还能复合。
But during first and second grade, they wouldn't let him see me.
但在一二年级的时候，他们不让他见我。
I missed him, knowing he was just close by, but I was too scared to ask what was really going on.
我想念他，知道他就在附近，但我太害怕了，不敢问到底发生了什么。
I didn't want to upset my mom.
我不想让妈妈不高兴。
Did you try to see me?
你有尝试来看我吗？
Dad [SPEAKING JAPANESE]
爸爸[说日语]
Dad Through Interpreter When you are in elementary school for Sports Day, I knew that I could see you.
爸爸通过翻译 当你在小学参加运动会时，我就知道我可以见到你。
So if I saw you doing well and were healthy, I was just relieved.
所以，如果我看到你做得很好并且很健康，我就会松一口气。
That's all I felt.
这就是我的感受。
I also felt like I shouldn't directly call out to you or hug you close, so I just watched you from afar.
我又觉得不应该直接呼唤你，也不应该紧紧拥抱你，所以我只是远远地看着你。
[SPEAKING JAPANESE] Atsuko Okatsuka He told me he used to watch me through the side gate because he wanted to avoid running into my mom and grandma at the main entrance.
[说日语] Atsuko Okatsuka 他告诉我他过去常常从侧门看着我，因为他想避免在正门遇到我的妈妈和奶奶。
I had no idea that went on, that he would watch me alone, afraid to call out to me.
我不知道接下来的事情，他会独自看着我，不敢叫我。
I wish he did.
我希望他这么做。
I missed him so much.
我非常想念他。
I told my grandma my dad's version of the story and how sad he was when they took me away from him.
我向奶奶讲述了我父亲的故事，以及当他们把我从他身边带走时，他是多么悲伤。
Oh, I understand your dad, because as a parent, it's impossible not to want to see your child.
哦，我理解你爸爸，因为作为父母，不可能不想见到你的孩子。
So we empathize with him, but our feelings were complex.
所以我们同情他，但我们的感受很复杂。
I told her, "You know I really like my dad, right?"
我告诉她：“你知道我真的很喜欢我爸爸，对吧？”
I suppose so, because you were a kind kid, but for us, it was complicated.
我想是的，因为你是一个善良的孩子，但对我们来说，这很复杂。
We were scared that he would take you away.
我们害怕他会把你带走。
Also, your mom still resented your dad.
而且，你妈妈还怨恨你爸爸。
That's why she didn't want you to see him, so it became like this.
所以她才不想让你看到他，所以才变成这样。
It went on like this for a year or two, and my grandma was realizing how hard it was to hold everything together.
这样的情况持续了一两年，我奶奶才意识到维持一切是多么困难。
And my mom was getting a lot worse.
我妈妈的情况变得更糟。
Grandma says the divorce really changed something in her.
奶奶说离婚确实改变了她的一些事情。
It really crushed her.
实在是让她崩溃了。
There was a period of time when she wanted to hide, and she didn't want to see anyone.
有一段时间，她很想躲起来，不想见任何人。
What's strange is, I actually don't remember much of my mom from when we were in Japan.
奇怪的是，我其实不太记得我们在日本时的妈妈。
I feel like there's memories of me doing things with you, whether we're bicycling outdoors, you taking me to dance classes, me going to the park with you and my friends and then, separately, me doing things with my dad.
我觉得有我和你一起做事的记忆，无论我们在户外骑自行车，你带我去舞蹈课，我和你和我的朋友一起去公园，然后，分别和我爸爸一起做事。
But I don't remember my mom being in the picture so much.
但我不太记得我妈妈出现在照片里。
What was she doing?
她在做什么？
What was her daily schedule like?
她每天的日程安排是怎样的？
And just be alone?
然后就一个人呆着吗？
And she had no friends, right?
而且她没有朋友，对吗？
[SPEAKING MANDARIN] Ying-Hsi Li Through Interpreter Yes.
[说普通话] 李英熙 通过翻译 是的。
But how bad did my mom get?
但我妈妈的病情到底有多严重呢？
I remember the night where she did take out the kitchen knife and maybe threatened to harm herself or us.
我记得那天晚上，她确实拿出了菜刀，并可能威胁要伤害自己或我们。
But what exactly happened that night, again?
但那天晚上到底发生了什么？
There was one time late at night she had a knife in her hand, and it looked like she might want to attack us.
有一次深夜，她手里拿着一把刀，看起来可能要袭击我们。
I was scared, so I got you out of the house on a bike, and we went around the neighborhood.
我很害怕，所以我骑着自行车把你带出了家门，我们在附近转了一圈。
We biked and biked around the neighborhood till very late, before we went home.
我们在附近骑着自行车，直到很晚才回家。
I mean, my mother would never hurt me.
我的意思是，我妈妈永远不会伤害我。
She says that I'm all she has, but that scared my grandma.
她说我是她的一切，但这吓坏了我奶奶。
It put her on high alert.
这让她处于高度戒备状态。
But she couldn't ask my dad for help, because she knew that would upset my mom.
但她不能向我爸爸寻求帮助，因为她知道这会让我妈妈不高兴。
So she took charge, like always, and made a big decision.
于是，她一如既往地掌管一切，并做出了一个重大决定。
I felt like I couldn't protect you and your mom on my own, but if we move to the US, I've got the help of my son and my daughter-in-law.
我觉得我自己无法保护你和你妈妈，但如果我们搬到美国，我会得到我儿子和儿媳的帮助。
So I decided to move all of us to the US.
所以我决定把我们所有人搬到美国。
I feel so much for my grandma in this moment.
这一刻我非常心疼我的奶奶。
I didn't know she moved us to America because she was scared for me, that she was feeling so alone and overwhelmed.
我不知道她把我们搬到美国是因为她担心我，她感到如此孤独和不知所措。
But I also feel for my dad.
但我也同情我的父亲。
Did he know we were moving?
他知道我们要搬家吗？
And if he did, why didn't he do anything about it?
如果他这样做了，为什么他不采取任何行动呢？
This is one of the things I most wanted to ask my dad about.
这是我最想问爸爸的事情之一。
I did not know we were moving to America.
我不知道我们要搬到美国。
Did you know?
你可知道？
Did I know from the very beginning?
我从一开始就知道吗？
No, I didn't know.
不，我不知道。
Grandma confirmed this.
奶奶证实了这一点。
She didn't tell him, not before we left.
她没有告诉他，在我们离开之前她没有告诉他。
He realized it later.
他后来意识到了。
Right now, I'm almost about to cry a little.
现在我有点想哭了。
So basically, your grandma told me in a letter that you are really missing me, and that's when I think I knew you were in America.
所以基本上，你奶奶在一封信中告诉我，你真的很想念我，那时我想我知道你在美国。
I really wanted to see you, too.
我也真的很想见你。
I have some feelings of guilt that, as a child, because I love both Mom and Dad and Grandma, I love everyone so much.
我有一些愧疚感，作为一个孩子，因为我爱爸爸妈妈和奶奶，所以我非常爱每个人。
So sometimes I fear that in the past, maybe I hurt your feelings if I said I wanted to go with Mom and Grandma.
所以有时候我担心，以前如果我说我想和妈妈、奶奶一起去，也许会伤害你的感情。
But I want you to know that I was just a confused kid who wanted to see everyone equally, so I want you to know that I always, always wanted to be with you, too.
但我想让你知道，我只是一个困惑的孩子，想平等地对待每个人，所以我想让你知道，我也一直、一直想和你在一起。
Then my dad told me something that completely shattered everything I thought I knew going into this.
然后我父亲告诉我的事情彻底粉碎了我认为我所知道的一切。
He said that back then, he thought maybe it was better for me to be with my mom and grandma.
他说当时他觉得也许我和妈妈、奶奶在一起比较好。
He was working all the time, and my siblings were mean to me.
他一直在工作，而我的兄弟姐妹对我很刻薄。
He felt he couldn't provide the best environment for me.
他觉得自己无法给我提供最好的环境。
And here were my mom and grandma, so excited to have me.
这里是我的妈妈和奶奶，他们很高兴能有我。
Maybe I should be with them, he thought.
也许我应该和他们在一起，他想。
That's why he didn't fight to keep me.
这就是为什么他没有为留住我而奋斗。
This was all news to me.
这对我来说都是新闻。
So I've never gotten angry about it but, I felt disappointed, naturally.
所以我从来没有为此生气，但我自然感到失望。
I kind of felt it can't be helped.
我有点觉得没办法了。
Your mom and grandma felt that even though I had custody, when they saw you, they just loved you so much that they wanted to be with you.
你妈妈和奶奶觉得，虽然我有抚养权，但当他们看到你的时候，他们就是非常爱你，想要和你在一起。
And so they took you with them.
所以他们把你也带走了。
I think those feelings are natural, so I didn't get angry.
我认为这些感觉是很自然的，所以我没有生气。
[SPEAKING JAPANESE] Atsuko Okatsuka I admire how much you have empathy for other people.
[说日语] 冈冢敦子 我钦佩你对他人的同理心。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you, Atsuko.
谢谢你，敦子。
So right now, you are praising me.
所以现在你在夸我。
But if I really understood people's feelings, I wouldn't have made so many mistakes in my life.
但如果我真的理解人们的感受，我的人生就不会犯这么多错误。
It's interesting that my dad thought he was looking out for my best interests by letting me go.
有趣的是，我父亲认为他让我离开是为了我的最大利益。
It broke his heart and mine, too.
这也伤了他的心，也伤了我的心。
But he did it for me.
但他为我做到了。
He could have confronted my grandma, just like my grandma could have told him the truth about taking me to America.
他本可以面对我的祖母，就像我的祖母可以告诉他带我去美国的真相一样。
But this is one way they're similar.
但这是它们相似的一方面。
They avoid these conversations, because when you converse, there's conflict.
他们避免这些对话，因为当你们交谈时，就会产生冲突。
And my family, we don't like that.
而我的家人，我们不喜欢这样。
They could have done it, though, and they could have talked to me.
不过，他们本可以做到这一点，并且他们可以和我交谈。
I would have asked to go back to Japan.
我会要求回到日本。
I would have asked to see both my parents equally.
我会要求平等地见到我的父母。
They could figure out the details from there, summers in America, school year in Japan, maybe.
他们可以从那里弄清楚细节，也许在美国暑假，在日本学年。
Who knows?
谁知道？
They're the adults.
他们是成年人。
I was eight years old.
那年我八岁。
Before we left for America, my friends from second grade in Japan threw a farewell party for me.
在我们出发去美国之前，我在日本的二年级朋友为我举办了一场欢送会。
But I thought it was just them being dramatic, because I was coming back.
但我认为这只是他们的戏剧性，因为我要回来了。
I liked the attention, though.
不过，我喜欢这种关注。
We were at a McDonald's, and everyone brought me gifts.
我们在麦当劳，每个人都给我带来了礼物。
They also wrote me tons of letters, too, that I discovered years later in a box.
他们也给我写了很多信，几年后我在一个盒子里发现了这些信。
They all said they were going to miss me.
他们都说他们会想念我的。
So pretty much all of Chiba knew I was leaving for good, except for me and my dad.
所以几乎千叶所有人都知道我要永远离开，除了我和我父亲。
It's like The Truman Show directed by my grandma.
这就像我奶奶导演的《杜鲁门世界》。
I told her, "When you brought me here without telling me or my dad, you knew we'd find out one day, right?
我告诉她，“当你在没有告诉我或我爸爸的情况下把我带到这里时，你知道我们有一天会发现的，对吧？
Did you think about that?"
你有想过吗？”
I guess I thought, whatever happens, happens.
我想我想，无论发生什么，都会发生。
I just let everything unfold.
我只是让一切展开。
I love that when it comes to intense things, my grandma's got a surfer attitude about it.
我喜欢当涉及到激烈的事情时，我的祖母对此有一种冲浪者的态度。
She's all, ride the wave, bruh.
她就是一切，乘风破浪，兄弟。
It's just America.
这只是美国。
But this is how she generally deals with stuff in life.
但这就是她处理生活中事情的一般方式。
She raised three kids on her own after her husband died, and she just pushes ahead and figures something will work out.
丈夫去世后，她独自抚养三个孩子，她只是继续前进，并认为事情会解决。
It has to.
必须如此。
For years, she supported her kids by teaching English in Taiwan, without really speaking English.
多年来，她通过在台湾教英语来养活孩子，但实际上并没有真正说英语。
It was just another one of the scams she pulled.
这只是她所实施的又一个骗局。
With a smile on her face and a few lies, she always figured it out.
脸上带着笑容，撒了几句谎，她总能想明白。
That's what she did with me.
她就是这样对我做的。
I was worried that you would feel upset, so I had to trick you.
我担心你不高兴，所以才骗你。
Sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
When summer ended and she enrolled me in school in Los Angeles, that's when I realized we weren't going home.
当夏天结束，她让我在洛杉矶的学校入学时，我意识到我们不会回家了。
I started dreaming of being back in Japan, being with my friends, being with my dad.
我开始梦想回到日本，和我的朋友们在一起，和我的父亲在一起。
I had that dream every night.
我每天晚上都会做那个梦。
I didn't know about this.
我不知道这件事。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I didn't know.
我不知道。
I asked, "Did I cry or ask why we're still here?
我问：“我哭过或者问过我们为什么还在这里吗？
Did I tell you I wanted to see my dad?
我有告诉过你我想见我爸爸吗？
As far as I recall, you did not.
据我所知，你没有。
I don't know how you felt deep down, but on the surface, you seemed OK.
我不知道你内心深处的感受如何，但表面上，你看起来还不错。
You were a very considerate and thoughtful child, and you probably didn't want to worry us.
你是一个非常体贴、体贴的孩子，你可能不想让我们担心。
Maybe you were upset, but you didn't want to show us.
也许你很沮丧，但你不想让我们知道。
The one thing that I didn't tell you, that I wasn't honest with you, was that we were moving to the US, and we would never come back to Japan.
我没有告诉你的一件事，我对你不诚实，是我们要搬到美国，而且我们永远不会回到日本。
This is my biggest regret.
这是我最大的遗憾。
Ying-Hsi Li [SPEAKING MANDARIN]
李英熙 [说普通话]
Ying-Hsi Li Through Interpreter It feels like I deceived you.
李英熙通过翻译 感觉就像我欺骗了你。
I know you were upset at that time.
我知道你当时很难过。
I feel really bad about it.
我对此感到非常难过。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
[SPEAKING MANDARIN] Atsuko Okatsuka [SPEAKING MANDARIN]
[说普通话] 冈冢敦子 [说普通话]
I told her, "No need to keep apologizing.
我告诉她：“没必要一直道歉。
No need to be sad." Before I started these interviews, I thought either my grandma was the villain for stealing me from my dad or that my dad was for deserting me once we got to the States.
没必要伤心。”在开始这些采访之前，我以为要么是我奶奶把我从我爸爸身边偷走了，要么是我爸爸在我们到达美国后抛弃了我。
And it turns out, the truth is, my grandma did take me away.
事实证明，事实是，我奶奶确实把我带走了。
And my dad could have done something to stop it, but he decided I'd be better off without him, which is so much sadder and somehow feels worse.
我爸爸本可以做点什么来阻止这一切，但他认为没有他我会过得更好，这更悲伤，不知何故感觉更糟。
I just feel so bad for all of them.
我只是为他们所有人感到难过。
Thank you for answering that.
谢谢你的回答。
And thank you for being with me today, and I love you so much.
感谢你今天和我在一起，我非常爱你。
And thank you for everything you have ever done for me, Grandma.
感谢您为我所做的一切，奶奶。
I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
我是从心底里说的。
Grandma tells the translator, "Oh, thank her, too.
奶奶对翻译说：“哦，也谢谢她。
I am also very grateful for her."
我也非常感谢她。”
It's the least I can do.
这是我至少能做的。
Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome.
也许我有斯德哥尔摩综合症。
I'm just kidding.
我只是开玩笑。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Well, I confronted her about it recently.
嗯，我最近和她对质过这件事。
I was like, Grandma, did you kidnap me?
我当时就想，奶奶，你绑架了我吗？
Because that's what I tell people on stage.
因为这就是我在舞台上告诉人们的。
She was like, hey, at least because I brought you to the states, you became a comedian, a successful one.
她说，嘿，至少因为我把你带到了美国，你成为了一名喜剧演员，一名成功的喜剧演员。
And I was like, keep going.
我当时想，继续吧。
And then she backtracked.
然后她又退缩了。
She was like, wait.
她说，等等。
But what if you didn't find comedy?
但如果你没有找到喜剧怎么办？
What would you have done?
你会怎么做？
And I was like, well, then I guess I'd have to press charges.
我想，好吧，那么我想我必须提出指控。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
Bim Adewunmi Atsuko Okatsuka is a comedian.
Bim Adewunmi 冈冢敦子是一位喜剧演员。
You can watch her HBO special.
你可以观看她的 HBO 特别节目。
It's called The Intruder.
它的名字叫《入侵者》。
She's also currently on tour with her new show.
她目前还在巡回演出她的新节目。
Tickets at AtsukoComedy.com.
门票可在 AtsukoComedy.com 购买。
This story was produced by Ira Glass, with Miki Meek and Diane Wu.
这个故事由 Ira Glass 与 Miki Meek 和 Diane Wu 共同制作。
Coming up, a faraway planet and the alien whose spaceship just can't land there.
即将到来的是一个遥远的星球和外星人，他的宇宙飞船无法降落在那里。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Bim Adewunmi, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是 Bim Adewunmi，代理 Ira Glass。
Today's program, The One Place I Can't Go, all about the mental roadblocks that people set up to keep them from engaging with thorny issues.
今天的节目《我不能去的一个地方》讲述了人们为阻止自己处理棘手问题而设置的心理障碍。
We've arrived at Act 2 of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Killing Me Softly.
第二幕，轻轻地杀了我。
My colleague, Emmanuel Dzotsi, he has a tale about something he avoids at all costs.
我的同事伊曼纽尔·佐西（Emmanuel Dzotsi）有一个关于他不惜一切代价避免的事情的故事。
Even though it seems to follow him everywhere he goes.
尽管无论他走到哪里，它似乎都跟着他。
It's been like this for years.
多年来一直如此。
Here's Emmanuel.
这是伊曼纽尔。
What I'm about to tell you is not some funny story I tell at parties.
我要告诉你的不是我在聚会上讲的有趣故事。
In fact, I don't really talk about it at all.
事实上，我根本不谈论它。
The thing I don't talk about is a song.
我不谈论的是一首歌。
I don't talk about it because for over 10 years, anytime I listen to, sing, hum, or even think about it, it gets stuck in my head.
我不谈论它，因为十多年来，每当我听、唱、哼，甚至想到它，它就会卡在我的脑海里。
And when that happens, bad things happen to me, often immediately.
当这种情况发生时，糟糕的事情就会发生在我身上，而且通常是立即发生。
I've lost keys, wallets, my Social Security card after listening to this song.
听完这首歌后，我丢了钥匙、钱包、社会保障卡。
I lost a relationship once, got dumped after it played in a coffee shop I was in.
我曾经失去过一段感情，在我所在的咖啡店里播放完之后就被甩了。
I'm not a superstitious person, but I truly believe it is the ultimate bad luck for me.
我不是一个迷信的人，但我确实相信这对我来说是最大的厄运。
Right before I sat down to write this, no joke, I made sure to renew my renter's insurance, just in case.
就在我坐下来写这篇文章之前，不是开玩笑，我确保更新了我的房客保险，以防万一。
That's how seriously I take this song.
这就是我对这首歌的认真态度。
The first time I heard it, I was a freshman in college.
第一次听到这个词是我大学一年级的时候。
YouTube suggested it to me during a morning study session for a midterm I had later that day.
YouTube 在当天晚些时候进行的期中考试的晨自习中向我推荐了它。
I remember listening to it and feeling so happy.
我记得听过它并感到非常高兴。
I was having a great day, and the song was my soundtrack.
我度过了愉快的一天，这首歌是我的配乐。
I remember that feeling staying with me for hours, hearing the song in my head as I took the midterm.
我记得那种感觉伴随着我几个小时，在我参加期中考试时在我的脑海中听到这首歌。
It was still playing in my head a few days later, when I got the results back and saw that I'd failed.
几天后，当我得到结果并发现我失败了时，这个想法仍在我的脑海中萦绕。
At the time, I didn't blame the song.
当时我并没有责怪这首歌。
I was just like, well, that's what I get for taking a class about black holes.
我当时想，好吧，这就是我参加有关黑洞的课程所得到的。
I moved on.
我继续前进。
In fact, I added the song to a long playlist I had.
事实上，我将这首歌添加到了我的一个很长的播放列表中。
A few weeks later, when I was listening to music in the middle of the day after some classes, the song played, and I fell asleep while listening, slept through a work shift I had, and got fired for the first and only time in my life.
几周后，当我在放完一些课后在中午听音乐时，这首歌响起，我边听边睡着了，在轮班期间睡着了，然后被解雇了，这是我一生中第一次也是唯一一次。
I just need more sleep, I told myself.
我只是需要更多的睡眠，我告诉自己。
It's a coincidence.
这是一个巧合。
But then, months later, the next time this song came on, I found myself feeling weirdly on edge.
但几个月后，当这首歌下次出现时，我发现自己感觉很奇怪。
I thought about skipping it.
我想过跳过它。
But just as quickly, I also thought, that's ridiculous.
但同样很快，我也想，这太荒谬了。
So I kept the song playing.
所以我继续播放这首歌。
Later that day, after a concert band rehearsal, I put my backpack down to help a friend move some chairs, and somebody stole it, presumably for the laptop inside.
那天晚些时候，在一场音乐会乐队排练后，我放下背包去帮助朋友搬一些椅子，结果有人偷了它，可能是为了里面的笔记本电脑。
I went in the rest of the semester without a personal computer.
我在这个学期剩下的时间里没有使用个人电脑。
I was freaked out.
我吓坏了。
You know how in horror movies, there's always that moment where the happy couple finally realize they might not have booked a great weekend getaway at a cabin after all and that the vibes are most definitely off?
你知道吗，在恐怖电影中，总有那么一个时刻，这对幸福的夫妇最终意识到他们可能根本没有在小屋里预订一个愉快的周末度假，而且气氛肯定已经消失了？
That's what it felt like.
就是这样的感觉。
After that, even though I knew it wasn't rational, I tried to avoid the song.
从那以后，尽管我知道这不合理，但我还是试图避开这首歌。
But it didn't work.
但这没有用。
The only bike accident I've ever been in happened after I heard it being played by a passing car.
我经历过的唯一一次自行车事故发生在我听到一辆路过的汽车发出的声音之后。
One time, it came on during a long road trip.
有一次，它发生在一次长途旅行中。
And the next time I stopped, I noticed a nail in one of my tires.
下次我停下来时，我注意到我的一个轮胎上有一颗钉子。
When I was preparing to run my first marathon, I was putting together a playlist, and my phone played a bit of a song before I could turn it off.
当我准备参加我的第一次马拉松时，我正在整理一个播放列表，在我将其关闭之前，我的手机播放了一段歌曲。
A few hours later, my sister called me and told me, Emmanuel, our parents are getting divorced.
几个小时后，我姐姐打电话给我，告诉我，伊曼纽尔，我们的父母要离婚了。
The next morning, I forgot to bring my headphones to the race, and, for the nearly five hours it took me to run the marathon, all I could think about were my parents, their marriage, and that song, which happens to be a sappy love song, endlessly looping in my head.
第二天早上，我忘记带耳机去参加比赛，在跑马拉松的近五个小时里，我满脑子想的就是我的父母，他们的婚姻，还有那首歌，恰好是一首多愁善感的情歌，在我的脑海里不断地循环。
I know all of this sounds delusional.
我知道这一切听起来都是幻觉。
A couple of years ago, I tried to convince myself, once and for all, that the song was just a song, but it backfired spectacularly.
几年前，我试图一劳永逸地说服自己，这首歌只是一首歌，但结果却适得其反。
I decided to play it every day for a month.
我决定每天都玩这个游戏，持续一个月。
I'd wake up, play the song, and then walk around the rest of the day telling myself not to worry.
我会醒来，播放这首歌，然后在一天剩下的时间里四处走动，告诉自己不要担心。
When nothing bad happened for three days, I felt relieved.
三天没有发生什么不好的事，我心里就松了口气。
And then, on the fourth day, I suffered a freak wrist injury, which plagued me for nine months.
然后，第四天，我的手腕受伤了，困扰了我九个月。
To make matters worse, because I'd played it so much, Spotify kept pushing me the song for months after the accident, because it thought I wanted to hear it.
更糟糕的是，因为我已经玩了太多次了，事故发生后几个月，Spotify 一直在向我推送这首歌，因为它认为我想听它。
That year was, by far, the worst year of my 20s.
那一年是我20多岁以来最糟糕的一年。
My hair, which, until that point, was decently robust, started falling out aggressively.
在那之前，我的头发还算坚固，但现在开始大量脱落。
My long-time family cat died.
我家养了很久的猫死了。
I went through a massive breakup.
我经历了一次大规模的分手。
My professional life was a mess.
我的职业生涯一团糟。
And I got COVID right before Christmas, so I spent my first-ever Christmas completely alone.
我在圣诞节前感染了新冠病毒，所以我第一次完全独自度过了圣诞节。
And it pushed me to do something I should have done years earlier.
它促使我去做一些我早几年就应该做的事情。
I added the group that sings the song to my do-not-play list on Spotify, which is a shame, because I really like the song.
我将演唱这首歌的乐队添加到了 Spotify 上的不播放列表中，这很遗憾，因为我真的很喜欢这首歌。
It is good with a capital G.
大写的 G 很好。
It is one of those R&B disco ballads from the '70s that is so ridiculously happy, so positive, it makes you wonder if the '70s were the most optimistic Americans have ever been or if things were actually so bleak artists had to make songs like this one.
这是一首来自 70 年代的 R&B 迪斯科民谣，如此快乐、如此积极，它让你怀疑 70 年代是否是美国人有史以来最乐观的时期，或者情况是否真的如此黯淡，艺术家们不得不创作这样的歌曲。
But yeah, no, I will not be playing this song or naming it.
但是，是的，不，我不会播放这首歌或命名它。
It's poison to me.
对我来说是毒药。
A skeptical friend of mine pointed out that yes, bad things happen when I hear this song, but don't bad things happen to all of us all the time?
我的一位持怀疑态度的朋友指出，是的，当我听到这首歌时，坏事就会发生，但坏事不是一直发生在我们所有人身上吗？
Maybe I just noticed them when the song plays.
也许我只是在歌曲播放时注意到它们。
He suggested I try to keep track of every unfortunate event I encounter without the song so I could see, once and for all, there was nothing to this.
他建议我尝试在没有这首歌的情况下记录我遇到的每一次不幸事件，这样我就能一劳永逸地看到，这没什么。
And so I did it.
我就这么做了。
I listed every tiny thing over the course of a couple of weeks, and I was surprised by how many there were, even if they were small.
我在几周的时间里列出了每一件小事，我对其中的数量感到惊讶，即使它们很小。
I cut myself on a metal can, accidentally got bleach on one of my favorite T-shirts, got into a never-ending back and forth with my health insurance over almost 20 claims they didn't want to pay.
我被金属罐割伤，不小心把漂白剂弄到了我最喜欢的一件 T 恤上，我的健康保险与我的健康保险进行了无休止的来回争执，他们拒绝支付近 20 项索赔。
I spent half of a family wedding in the ER because a guest passed out at the reception.
一场家庭婚礼的一半时间我都在急诊室度过，因为一位客人在接待处昏倒了。
I know I'm supposed to look at that list and feel freed, feel finally able to listen to that song whenever I want, but-- don't judge me-- all it did was convince me that lousy stuff happens to me a lot.
我知道我应该看看那个列表并感到自由，感觉终于可以随时听那首歌了，但是——不要评判我——它所做的只是让我相信，糟糕的事情经常发生在我身上。
So why would I risk playing this song and making it worse?
那么为什么我要冒险播放这首歌并使其变得更糟呢？
I have nothing else like this in my life.
我的生活中没有其他类似的事情了。
I don't believe in astrology.
我不相信占星术。
I don't believe in luck.
我不相信运气。
I don't believe that misfortune is God punishing you for your bad deeds.
我不相信不幸是上天因为你的坏事而惩罚你。
I know it's entirely possible that when I hear that tune I freak out in a way that causes unpleasant things to happen to me.
我知道，当我听到这首曲子时，我完全有可能会惊慌失措，从而导致不愉快的事情发生在我身上。
But this I believe.
但我相信这一点。
I have to stay away from this song.
我必须远离这首歌。
Emmanuel Dzotsi is a producer on our show.
Emmanuel Dzotsi 是我们节目的制片人。
Right after working on the final draft of this piece, he went for a run in the woods, got chased by a loose dog, and fell, bruising his ribs and busting his ankle.
在完成这篇文章的最终稿后，他在树林里跑步，被一只散养的狗追赶，摔倒了，肋骨擦伤，脚踝骨折。
As of this taping, he's also home sick with strep throat.
截至录制时，他还因链球菌性咽喉炎而在家中生病。
Act Three, Lost in Space.
第三幕，迷失太空。
This last story is about someone who spent her childhood craving a world that she could not find on Earth, so, as an adult, she just created one.
最后一个故事讲述的是一个人在童年时期一直渴望一个她在地球上找不到的世界，所以，作为一个成年人，她创造了一个世界。
And it was perfect until she became the one person who couldn't go there.
一切都很完美，直到她成为唯一一个不能去那里的人。
Lilly Sullivan has the story.
莉莉·沙利文有这个故事。
First let me tell you about the world she created.
首先让我告诉你她创造的世界。
It's called The Locked Tomb.
它的名字叫《上锁的坟墓》。
It starts on an isolated planet.
它始于一个孤立的星球。
And it is a fundamentally dying monastery of a planet, where there are pretty much only three people under 30.
这是一个基本上正在消亡的星球上的修道院，那里几乎只有三个 30 岁以下的人。
This is Tamsyn Muir.
这是谭森·缪尔。
She's the author of this series of science fantasy books, which begin on that sad planet.
她是这一系列科学奇幻书籍的作者，这些书籍始于那个悲伤的星球。
But they are also some of the most breezily gay books I've ever read.
但它们也是我读过的最轻松的同性恋书籍之一。
The blurb on the cover of the first book basically just says, "Lesbian necromancers in space." So I was in.
第一本书封面上的简介基本上只是说：“太空中的女同性恋死灵法师”。所以我就进去了。
Reading the first one was unlike anything I've ever read.
阅读第一本书与我读过的任何书都不一样。
Here's first line.
这是第一行。
"In the myriadic year of our Lord, the 10,000th year of the king undying, the kindly prince of death, Gideon Nav packed her sword, her shoes, and her dirty magazines.
“在我们的主的万岁之年，不朽之王、仁慈的死亡王子的一万年里，吉迪恩·纳维收拾好了她的剑、她的鞋子和她肮脏的杂志。
And she escaped from the house of the night." Gideon is a Cavalier, which is kind of like a knight, but she's not like a classic knight.
而且她从夜之屋逃了出来。”基定是一名骑士，有点像骑士，但她并不像经典的骑士。
She refers to people as douchebags, and she's constantly saying things like, "That's what she said."
她称人们为混蛋，并且她经常说“她就是这么说的”之类的话。
Unlike most queer books, there's barely any sex or romance or making out.
与大多数酷儿书籍不同的是，书中几乎没有任何性、浪漫或亲热的内容。
The words "gay," "lesbian," "queer" never even show up.
“同性恋”、“女同性恋”、“酷儿”这些词甚至从未出现过。
People are queer, but it's more like their personalities, their humor.
人们都是酷儿，但这更像是他们的个性、他们的幽默。
It's just understood.
刚刚明白了。
And I'll just say, I'm sure these books aren't for everyone, but I love them.
我只想说，我确信这些书并不适合所有人，但我喜欢它们。
I read the first book one summer a few years ago.
几年前的一个夏天，我读了第一本书。
I was on vacation with a few friends, and we all got pulled into it at the same time.
我和几个朋友一起去度假，我们都同时投入其中。
And it was like we all just fell into this kind of imaginary space that Tamsyn had created, kind of youthful and very gay, in a fun rather than oppressive way, which, Tamsyn says, is exactly what she'd hoped for.
就好像我们都刚刚陷入了 Tamsyn 创造的这种想象空间，有点年轻，非常快乐，以一种有趣而不是压抑的方式，Tamsyn 说，这正是她所希望的。
Tamsyn says she wrote this book for her 17-year-old self, who really could have used books and worlds like this back then.
Tamsyn 说，她为 17 岁的自己写了这本书，当时的自己真的可以使用这样的书籍和世界。
Just ways to be queer that weren't inherently sad.
只是成为酷儿的方式，但本质上并不悲伤。
The very mainstream LGBQT stuff, it was miserable.
非常主流的 LGBQT 东西，很惨。
And I was already miserable, because if I wanted to read gay literature at the time, it was always like, my sad, coming-out summer.
我已经很痛苦了，因为如果我当时想读同性恋文学，那总是像我悲伤的、出柜的夏天。
And yeah, I didn't want to read my sad coming-out summer for the umpty-umpth time.
是的，我不想在这段空虚的时间里读我悲伤的出柜夏天。
I'd read it.
我会读的。
It was good the first 50 times.
前50次都很好。
What I really wanted was a big set piece fight.
我真正想要的是一场大型的定位球大战。
I wanted to read about girls doing big set piece fights.
我想读一些关于女孩们进行大型定位球比赛的文章。
I mean, that was the era of The Matrix, and I'd also just gotten super into Hong Kong kung fu cinema.
我的意思是，那是《黑客帝国》的时代，我也刚刚迷上了香港功夫电影。
And all I did was imagine big kung fu fights.
我所做的只是想象大型功夫战斗。
Tamsyn ended up dropping out of high school.
Tamsyn 最终从高中退学。
She says she wasn't a good student.
她说她不是一个好学生。
She'd been put in the class for the, quote, "stupid kids." She said she spent most of high school dyeing her hair, shaving it ways nobody liked, sitting in the back of the class, her eyes glazed over, daydreaming about big martial arts fights.
她被分到了“愚蠢的孩子”班级。她说，她高中的大部分时间都在染头发，以没人喜欢的方式剃胡子，坐在教室后面，眼睛呆滞，幻想着大型武术比赛。
She came out in high school, in a small conservative New Zealand suburb, a different era.
她在高中时就出柜了，那是在新西兰一个保守的小郊区，那是一个不同的时代。
And one of my best friends stopped talking to me immediately.
我最好的朋友之一立即停止和我说话。
And I don't even blame her.
我什至不责怪她。
I think a lot of people forget how dangerous and grotesque being gay was presented back at the time.
我想很多人都忘记了当时同性恋是多么危险和怪异。
She was bullied, beaten up.
她被欺负、被殴打。
And to escape, she wrote stories, which is not such a surprise given where she was hanging out online.
为了逃避现实，她写了故事，考虑到她在网上闲逛，这并不奇怪。
It's a place she stumbled on when she was about 11.
这是她11岁时偶然发现的一个地方。
My dad had been on ARPANET, so was that connected with old-school internet.
我父亲曾经在阿帕网上，所以它与老式互联网相连。
And the internet of 1996 was just a wild frontier.
1996 年的互联网还只是一个狂野的前沿。
That was cowboy territory.
那是牛仔的领地。
Anything was happening.
任何事情都发生了。
And I just wanted to look up cool pictures of Sailor Moon or go on ICQ and talk about animals and gargoyles, and I found fanfiction, and I didn't look back.
我只是想查找美少女战士的酷照片，或者上 ICQ 谈论动物和石像鬼，然后我找到了同人小说，然后我就没有回头。
Fanfiction, a whole world of people equally obsessed with stories and sci-fi, to the point they were going online to write their own versions of the stories they loved, X-Files, Lord of the Rings.
同人小说，全世界的人们都同样痴迷于故事和科幻小说，以至于他们在网上写自己喜欢的故事的版本，比如《X档案》、《指环王》。
They fix the things they feel the author got wrong.
他们修复了他们认为作者错误的地方。
There's tons of shipping, that is, people deciding which characters should have ended up together and rewriting it so that they do.
有大量的运输，也就是说，人们决定哪些角色应该最终在一起并重写它，以便他们这样做。
None of this is for money, for the most part.
在大多数情况下，这一切都不是为了钱。
It's just for fun.
这只是为了好玩。
Tamsyn was just a kid, but she starts publishing stories there, stuff she never would have taken to school.
Tamsyn 当时只是个孩子，但她开始在那里发表故事，这些是她永远不会带到学校的东西。
It's the first place she ever published anything, the first place she ever really showed anyone her work.
这是她第一次发表任何东西，也是她第一次真正向任何人展示她的作品。
And I think one of the reasons I got into it initially was because it felt so illegal and faintly naughty.
我认为我最初参与其中的原因之一是因为它感觉如此非法且有点顽皮。
Fanfiction, especially back then, was like the dark web for nerds.
同人小说，尤其是在当时，就像书呆子们的暗网。
You read a story, and the author's note immediately says, please don't sue me.
你读了一个故事，作者的注释立即说，请不要起诉我。
It's like punk for dorks.
这就像傻瓜的朋克。
Punk for dorks, in other words, her people.
朋克适合呆子，换句话说，适合她的人民。
A lot of people think of fanfic as lowbrow, embarrassing.
很多人认为同人小说低俗、令人尴尬。
A lot of big sci-fi fantasy writers slam it.
许多科幻奇幻大作家都对它进行了猛烈抨击。
George R.
乔治·R。
R.
R。
Martin, who wrote Game of Thrones, has said it's copyright infringement, a violation of intellectual property.
《权力的游戏》的编剧马丁表示，这是侵犯版权、侵犯知识产权。
Anne Rice, who wrote Interview With the Vampire, has famously objected to people writing fic about her stories, because who wouldn't want to ship Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise?
《夜访吸血鬼》的作者安妮·赖斯（Anne Rice）以反对人们写关于她的故事的小说而闻名，因为谁不想把布拉德·皮特（Brad Pitt）和汤姆·克鲁斯（Tom Cruise）写成小说呢？
There are some writers who, like Tamsyn, write fic before going mainstream.
有些作家，比如 Tamsyn，在进入主流之前先写小说。
But once they make it mainstream, they might delete their accounts, delete all the things they wrote pre-mainstream days.
但一旦他们使其成为主流，他们可能会删除自己的帐户，删除他们在主流化之前写的所有内容。
Not Tamsyn.
不是谭森。
Tamsyn still loves these worlds.
谭森仍然热爱这些世界。
When the first book in the series came out, Gideon the Ninth, it was a big deal, nominated for the biggest sci-fi awards.
当该系列的第一本书《吉迪恩九世》问世时，这是一件大事，获得了最大的科幻奖项的提名。
A review in The New York Times called it "meticulous and moody, haunted by difficult and complex feelings in a wasted universe." And in all this excitement about the book, Tamsyn heard about some buzz from the place where she'd always felt so comfortable, one of the main fanfiction sites, AO3, or Archive of Our Own.
《纽约时报》的一篇评论称其“细致而喜怒无常，在一个废弃的宇宙中被困难和复杂的感觉所困扰。”在对这本书的所有兴奋中，塔姆辛从她一直感觉很舒服的地方听到了一些嗡嗡声，这是主要的同人小说网站之一，AO3，或我们自己的档案馆。
One day, she saw something she'd never seen before.
有一天，她看到了一些她以前从未见过的东西。
People had started writing fanfic about her work.
人们开始写关于她作品的同人小说。
And I think I saw there were eight fanfics.
我想我看到有八部同人小说。
And I was like, oh, oh, oh.
我当时想，哦，哦，哦。
I'm feeling a lot of different emotions, and I have to run away right now.
我有很多不同的情绪，我现在必须逃跑。
I cannot look at even what these titles are.
我什至无法看这些标题是什么。
Why?
为什么？
Tamsyn Muir You know inherently starting out in fan fiction that you are not allowed to read it if it's for your own creation.
Tamsyn Muir 你从同人小说开始就知道，如果它是你自己创作的，你就不能阅读它。
What are the reasons?
原因是什么？
Tamsyn Muir So I think one of the main things is that you worry that if you read fan fiction and then you write anything that mimics anything that somebody has written about your property, you just committed a huge cardinal sin against your own fandom.
Tamsyn Muir 所以我认为主要的事情之一是你担心如果你读了同人小说然后你写了任何模仿别人写的关于你的财产的东西，你就对自己的同人群体犯下了巨大的罪过。
You just stole candy from the world's most important baby.
你刚刚从世界上最重要的婴儿那里偷了糖果。
You ripped off your own fans.
你欺骗了自己的粉丝。
You are scum.
你就是人渣。
Even if you hadn't meant to, there is no way that you can prove that you didn't nick off somebody else's ideas.
即使你不是故意的，你也无法证明你没有抄袭别人的想法。
Tamsyn says that writers in general are told pretty firmly to not read fanfic about their work.
Tamsyn 说，一般作家都被非常坚定地告知不要阅读有关他们作品的同人小说。
There needs to be no question of where their ideas come from.
他们的想法从何而来，这是毫无疑问的。
Earlier this year, a fanfic writer sued the Tolkien Estate and Amazon Studios for $250 million, alleging they'd ripped off his storyline for The Lord of the Rings prequel.
今年早些时候，一位同人作家起诉托尔金庄园和亚马逊工作室，索赔 2.5 亿美元，指控他们抄袭了他的《指环王》前传故事情节。
The Tolkien Trust countersued for copyright infringement.
托尔金信托基金会以侵犯版权为由反诉。
If you look up Tamsyn's work on the big fic sites today, there are thousands of entries, people writing, interacting, playing around in the world of The Locked Tomb.
如果你今天在大型小说网站上查找 Tamsyn 的作品，就会发现有数以千计的条目，人们在《上锁的坟墓》的世界里写作、互动、玩耍。
Tamsyn can't participate in any of it.
Tamsyn 不能参与其中的任何事情。
And it kills her because, again, these are her people.
这会杀死她，因为这些都是她的人民。
And now that it's about her own books even more so her people.
现在，这与她自己的书有关，更与她的人民有关。
Not only do they like the same books, but they are devoted to her characters, her humor, the entire fantastical sci-fi universe that lives in her head.
他们不仅喜欢同样的书，而且都热衷于她的角色、她的幽默，以及她脑海中的整个奇幻科幻宇宙。
So the people who loved it were like a custom-made group of people who could not possibly have interests more tailored to Tamsyn's own brain, all milling around in one spot.
所以喜欢它的人就像是一群定制的人，他们不可能有更适合谭森自己大脑的兴趣，都在一个地方闲逛。
Do you have questions about what's going on in--
你对正在发生的事情有疑问吗——
Oh, so many.
哦，这么多。
I want to know everything.
我想知道一切。
Because fandom is so deeply about shipping, whose faces do you want to make mush together?
因为粉丝圈对运输的关注度如此之高，所以你想把谁的脸混在一起呢？
I'm just sitting here, eating popcorn, being like, who do you want to make mush?
我只是坐在这里，吃着爆米花，心想，你想让谁做糊状？
Come on.
快点。
Who are you making kiss?
你在吻谁？
I want to figure it out.
我想弄清楚。
And then, when I realized that I wasn't going to be able to do that, I'm the kind of person who doesn't do anything by halves.
然后，当我意识到我无法做到这一点时，我是那种做任何事情都不会半途而废的人。
I'm all in or I'm all out.
我要么全力以赴，要么全力以赴。
And I realized then that just being a writer, I kind of didn't want to interact with anyone at all.
然后我意识到，作为一名作家，我根本不想与任何人互动。
I was all about that hermit lifestyle.
我很喜欢那种隐士的生活方式。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I mean, it seems like it must be hard to avoid.
我的意思是，这似乎很难避免。
You're just a couple keystrokes away just to quickly peek.
您只需敲击几下键盘即可快速浏览。
Is it ever hard?
曾经很难吗？
It's impossible.
这是不可能的。
That's why most of the internet is banned.
这就是大多数互联网被禁止的原因。
I have a beautiful program called Freedom, and I have banned myself from looking pretty much anywhere, because I know I would go look, I would go look at everything.
我有一个叫做“自由”的美丽计划，我禁止自己去看几乎任何地方，因为我知道我会去看，我会去看一切。
So I had to be sensible, and I've banned myself from fandom.
所以我必须保持理智，并且我已经禁止自己加入粉丝圈。
You had to exile yourself.
你不得不放逐自己。
Tamsyn Muir I have exiled myself.
Tamsyn Muir 我已经放逐了自己。
I have left.
我已经离开了。
I have gone into the West.
我已经进入西方了。
That seems like it would have its own kind of melancholy.
似乎也有它自己的忧郁。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, it's lonely.
是的，很孤独。
You know how I said I wanted no loneliness?
你知道我怎么说我不想孤独吗？
I got loneliness.
我得到了孤独。
Wow.
哇。
Tamsyn Muir Yeah.
谭森·缪尔 是的。
It's a particular kind of melancholy that I didn't think I would ever experience.
这是一种我认为我永远不会经历的特殊的忧郁。
Talking to her, somehow I couldn't help but tell her what it was like being in that world among her fans.
和她交谈时，我忍不住告诉她在她的粉丝世界里是什么感觉。
I told her about that summer vacation I spent listening to her book together with friends, how we bought a little boat and named it Ianthe.
我告诉她，那个暑假我和朋友们一起听她的书，我们如何买了一条小船，并将其命名为 Ianthe。
It was one of the characters in the books, a villain.
这是书中的人物之一，一个恶棍。
People online call her a Draco in leather pants.
网上人们称她为穿皮裤的德拉科。
That boat's going to sink.
那条船要沉了。
Why would you name your boat Ianthe?
为什么你会把你的船命名为 Ianthe？
Your boat's cursed.
你的船被诅咒了。
We would jump off of it into the lake and yell "Ianthe" as we were jumping into the lake.
我们会从上面跳入湖中，并在跳入湖中时大喊“Ianthe”。
Sorry.
对不起。
I don't mean to roast you about the boat.
我并不想因为那条船而嘲笑你。
It's just, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard.
只是，这是我听过的最伟大的事情。
Fandom around her books, speaking from experience, it's really fun.
从经验来看，她的书引起了粉丝的关注，这真的很有趣。
This is what she's missing.
这就是她所缺少的。
It's like you created this whole world that would be perfect for you and perfect for your 17-year-old self.
就好像你创造了这整个世界，对你来说是完美的，对 17 岁的你来说也是完美的。
It's your own world, and you can't even post there.
这是你自己的世界，你甚至不能在那里发帖。
You've created the perfect thing for you, and you're on the outside of it.
你已经为自己创造了完美的事物，而你却处于它之外。
You've been monkey's pawed.
你已经被猴子抓了。
You've created the perfect fandom, and you can never walk inside it.
你已经创造了完美的粉丝圈，但你永远无法走进其中。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Tamsyn Muir You know how Frodo says that he saved the Shire, but not for himself?
Tamsyn Muir 你知道弗罗多怎么说他拯救了夏尔，但不是为了他自己吗？
It's like that, except Frodo wasn't blocking his own name on Twitter.
事情就是这样，只不过弗罗多没有在推特上屏蔽自己的名字。
She's also come to accept, this is their party.
她也开始接受，这是他们的聚会。
If she arrives, it's like the teacher showing up and trying to hang with the students.
如果她来了，就像老师出现并试图与学生们相处一样。
Her very presence means that no one can act normal.
她的存在就意味着没有人能够表现得正常。
And she understands that, but it's OK, she says.
她明白这一点，但没关系，她说。
She gets to spend plenty of time in the universe of The Locked Tomb.
她在《上锁的坟墓》的宇宙中度过了很多时间。
She's still at work writing the end of the series for the rest of us to enjoy without her.
她仍在写该系列的结尾，以便我们其他人在没有她的情况下也能享受。
Lilly Sullivan is a producer on our show.
莉莉·沙利文是我们节目的制片人。
The third book in Tamsyn Muir's Locked Tomb series, Nona the Ninth, just came out in paperback.
塔姆森·缪尔（Tamsyn Muir）的《上锁的坟墓》系列的第三本书《诺娜九世》刚刚以平装本出版。
Today's program was produced by Diane Wu and edited by our senior editor David Kestenbaum.
今天的节目由 Diane Wu 制作，由我们的高级编辑 David Kestenbaum 编辑。
The people who put together our show today include Jane Ackermann, James Bennett II, Phia Bennin, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Cassie Howley, Valerie Kipnis, Seth Lind, Tobin Low, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alyssa Shipp, Alix Spiegel, Christopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney.
今天节目的制作人包括 Jane Ackermann、James Bennett II、Phia Bennin、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Cassie Howley、Valerie Kipnis、Seth Lind、Tobin Low、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alyssa Shipp、Alix Spiegel、Christopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Noriko Meek, Caro Perny, Taylor Britton, and Mikafui Dzotsi.
今天特别感谢 Noriko Meek、Caro Perny、Taylor Britton 和 Mikafui Dzotsi。
Interpretation for act one by Siyi Chen and Yukiko Hata, with research help from Zeyi Yang, Hisae Kawamori, Kiku Matsuo, Karin Jeffery, and Japanese voice over by Toshiji Takeshima.
第一幕由陈思怡和羽田由纪子翻译，杨泽一、河森久佐、松尾菊、卡琳·杰弗里提供研究帮助，竹岛敏司配音。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 800 多集档案。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to my boss Ira Glass.
一如既往地感谢我的老板艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
He's recently started coaching a team of amateur bobsledders.
他最近开始指导一支业余雪橇队。
The vibe is supposed to be super relaxed.
气氛应该是超级放松的。
No one's keeping score.
没有人记分。
But he's also really competitive, wants his team members to get the fastest times.
但他也非常有竞争力，希望他的团队成员获得最快的成绩。
You can hear how conflicted he is each time he shoves them down the track.
你可以听出每次他把他们推下赛道时他是多么矛盾。
Hurry.
匆忙。
Have fun.
玩得开心。
Ahh!
啊！
Bim Adewunmi I'm Bim Adewunmi, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
Bim Adewunmi 我是 Bim Adewunmi，下周带着更多《美国生活》的故事回来。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。