803: Greetings, People Of Earth - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #803 | August 2, 2024 803: Greetings, People Of Earth Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 803 集 | 2024 年 8 月 2 日 803：地球人民，您好 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Even if you haven't seen this movie, it feels like you've seen this movie.
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass 即使你没有看过这部电影，也会感觉你看过这部电影。
Flying saucer lands on Earth, a huge crowd gathers round, scared but excited.
飞碟降落在地球上，一大群人围拢过来，既害怕又兴奋。
There are parents with kids, also the army, a couple of tanks, soldiers point guns at the door of the spaceship, which is closed.
有带着孩子的父母，还有军队，几辆坦克，士兵用枪指着关闭的飞船门。
And then it opens slowly.
然后它慢慢地打开。
A figure emerges, steps forward, and speaks.
一个人影出现，向前迈出一步，开口说话。
We have come to visit you in peace and with goodwill.
我们带着和平和善意来拜访你们。
The crowd looks uneasy.
众人看上去有些不安。
Soldiers raise their guns higher.
士兵们把枪举得更高。
Is he really telling the truth?
他说的真的是实话吗？
Aliens-come-to-earth movies squarely divide off into two camps.
外星人来到地球的电影完全分为两个阵营。
There are the ones where they want to be our friends.
有些人想成为我们的朋友。
That's Close Encounters, that's ET, Arrival.
这就是《近距离接触》，那是《外星人》，《降临》。
There's a Star Trek movie about the moment that humans first meet extraterrestrials.
有一部《星际迷航》电影讲述了人类第一次遇见外星人的那一刻。
And then there are the films where the aliens want to kill us-- generally way more fun-- Independence Day, War of the Worlds, the Men in Black films, The Avengers, the film Nope.
还有一些外星人想要杀死我们的电影——通常更有趣——《独立日》、《世界大战》、《黑衣人》电影、《复仇者联盟》、《不》。
(WHISPERING) It's in the cloud.
（低声）它在云端。
It's in the cloud.
它在云端。
(SCREAMING) OJ!
（尖叫）噢！
It's in the cloud!
它在云端！
I don't know what it says about us as a species, but we make way more films about creatures who go so far out of their way, like, they travel hundreds of millions of miles, light years with the sole purpose of wanting to kick our asses.
我不知道这对我们这个物种有什么意义，但我们制作了更多关于那些不按自己的方式走得太远的生物的电影，比如，它们旅行数亿英里、数光年，唯一的目的就是想踢我们的屁股。
[METALLIC GROANING] And in lots of these films, there's that moment when the aliens first arrive before we know what they're gonna do where the humans wonder, which film are we in?
[金属般的呻吟]在很多这样的电影中，都有这样的时刻：外星人第一次到达时，我们还不知道他们要做什么，人类想知道，我们在哪部电影中？
Are these guys friendly or not?
这些家伙友善还是不友善？
Today in our show, we, the people of earth, meet non-humans and struggle to understand them.
今天在我们的节目中，我们地球人遇到了非人类并努力理解他们。
And the question in the stories in today's show is not, will they do us harm?
今天节目中故事的问题不是，它们会对我们造成伤害吗？
But the more difficult and more fundamental question, why are they acting the way they're acting, these non-humans?
但更困难、更根本的问题是，为什么这些非人类会这样行事？
What's going through their heads?
他们脑子里在想什么？
Today we have a story of machine intelligence.
今天我们要讲的是机器智能的故事。
We have ocean creatures lurking in wait.
我们有潜伏着的海洋生物。
We have a story from deep space and one from a skate park in Washington State.
我们有一个来自外太空的故事和一个来自华盛顿州滑板公园的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
Fellow earthlings, stay with us.
地球同胞们，和我们在一起吧。
Act One: First Contact Ira Glass Act 1, "First Contact." I don't know about you, but here's something that I have never talked about or thought about much until the last six months or so-- AI.
第一幕：第一次接触 Ira Glass 第一幕，“第一次接触”。我不了解你的情况，但直到过去六个月左右我才谈论或思考过一些东西——人工智能。
Ever since ChatGPT and its upgrades and spin-offs started rolling out publicly last November, it's been doing such amazing things-- writing kid's term papers, passing the bar exam.
自从去年 11 月 ChatGPT 及其升级版和衍生产品开始公开推出以来，它一直在做一些令人惊奇的事情——写孩子的学期论文、通过律师资格考试。
It told a New York Times reporter to leave his wife because it loves him more.
它告诉纽约时报记者离开他的妻子，因为它更爱他。
This is now the next big battle among tech companies-- who's gonna roll out the best AI.
现在这是科技公司之间的下一场大战——谁将推出最好的人工智能。
All since ChatGPT.
一切都是从 ChatGPT 开始的。
And that is the non-human force that the people of Earth are trying to figure out in this first act.
这就是地球人在第一幕中试图找出的非人类力量。
And so much of the coverage about this new generation of AI has focused on important questions like, who's going to lose jobs because of this?
关于新一代人工智能的大部分报道都集中在一些重要问题上，比如谁会因此而失业？
Does it make our world better or more dangerous?
它会让我们的世界变得更好还是更加危险？
Could the AI have actual catastrophic consequences for us?
人工智能会给我们带来真正的灾难性后果吗？
But our senior editor David Kestenbaum noticed that nobody's talking much about a basic and kind of profound question-- have the computers crossed some kind of line and are they actually developing a sort of human intelligence?
但我们的高级编辑大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆注意到，没有人过多谈论一个基本且深刻的问题——计算机是否跨越了某种界限，它们是否真的在发展某种人类智能？
And I want to be clear what I mean by that because there's not an agreed-on definition of what you're looking for if you're looking for human intelligence in a computer.
我想澄清我的意思，因为如果你在计算机中寻找人类智能，那么对于你要寻找的东西并没有一个一致的定义。
But one way that scientists think about this is the computer can actually understand language and concepts and it can reason through problems.
但科学家们对此的思考方式之一是，计算机实际上可以理解语言和概念，并且可以通过问题进行推理。
But to be clear, it's completely unlike the computers that we've had till now, which are basically just fancy calculators following thousands of lines of instructions.
但需要明确的是，它完全不同于我们迄今为止所拥有的计算机，后者基本上只是遵循数千行指令的高级计算器。
When you google for a cast iron skillet, the software doesn't understand what a cast iron skillet is.
当您在谷歌上搜索铸铁煎锅时，该软件无法理解铸铁煎锅是什么。
It's just searching for those words in some big database or something like that.
它只是在一些大数据库或类似的东西中搜索这些词。
If humans this year have finally created intelligent machines that can understand and reason with this new generation of AI, that is an eerie and important turning point for our whole species.
如果今年人类最终创造出了能够理解新一代人工智能并进行推理的智能机器，那对我们整个物种来说将是一个可怕而重要的转折点。
David talked to a bunch of researchers who've been looking into this, trying to sort out this exact question.
大卫与一群一直在研究这个问题的研究人员进行了交谈，试图解决这个确切的问题。
Here he is.
他在这里。
I think everyone, once they start playing around with something like ChatGPT, has a kind of "holy shit" moment.
我认为每个人一旦开始玩像 ChatGPT 这样的东西，都会有一种“天哪”的时刻。
For me, it was when I typed this into it.
对我来说，就是当我把这个输入进去的时候。
"Give me a chocolate chip cookie recipe, but written in the style of a very depressed person." It responded.
“给我一份巧克力饼干的食谱，但是以一个非常沮丧的人的风格写的。”它回应了。
"Ingredients-- 1 cup butter softened, if you can even find the energy to soften it.
“原料——1杯黄油，软化，如果你能找到软化它的能量的话。
1 teaspoon vanilla extract, the fake artificial flavor of happiness.
1 茶匙香草精，人造幸福香料。
1 cup semi-sweet chocolate chips, tiny little joys that will eventually just melt away." It really was quite good.
1杯半甜巧克力片，小小的快乐最终会消失。”确实非常好。
ChatGPT doesn't have access to the internet.
ChatGPT 无法访问互联网。
But I figured it must be copying this from something it had seen on the internet when it was being trained.
但我认为它一定是从它接受训练时在互联网上看到的东西中复制的。
I spent a long time looking and could not find anything like it.
我花了很长时间寻找，但找不到类似的东西。
This chocolate chip cookie recipe, I did not understand how it was possible.
这个巧克力饼干的食谱，我不明白这是怎么可能的。
It's particularly shocking if you know a little bit about how things like ChatGPT work.
如果您了解一点像 ChatGPT 这样的东西是如何工作的，那会特别令人震惊。
It's not the sort of traditional computer program where you give the machine explicit, detailed instructions like-- "if someone asks for a recipe, type these words back" or "to make someone sound depressed, replace this word with that word." ChatGPT is different.
它不是那种传统的计算机程序，你向机器发出明确、详细的指令，比如“如果有人要求菜谱，请输入这些词”或“为了让某人听起来沮丧，用那个词替换这个词”。 ChatGPT 则不同。
It's something called a large language model.
这就是所谓的大语言模型。
And here's how they work.
这就是它们的工作原理。
Ready?
准备好？
ChatGPT had been trained really to just do one very particular thing-- predict what the next word in a sequence might be.
ChatGPT 经过真正的训练，只做一件非常特殊的事情——预测序列中的下一个单词可能是什么。
Kind of like when you're texting on your phone and you type, "Sorry, I'm gonna be home--" And it suggests "late." That's how this thing operated.
有点像当你在手机上发短信时，你输入：“对不起，我要回家了——”它会暗示“迟到了”。这件事就是这样运作的。
You type some words-- in this case, "give me a chocolate chip cookie recipe in the style of a depressed person--" and it notes the words, the order they're in, does some math based on all the text it's been trained on, and it comes up with what it calculates to be the most likely word to come next.
你输入一些单词——在本例中，“给我一个抑郁症患者风格的巧克力曲奇食谱——”，它会记下这些单词、它们的顺序，根据它所训练的所有文本进行一些数学运算，然后计算出最有可能出现的下一个单词。
It types that one word on the screen, then it goes back and does it again.
它会在屏幕上输入一个单词，然后返回并再次执行。
Looks at the recipe question plus the one word it just spit out and says, what word should come next?
看看菜谱问题，加上它刚刚吐出的一个词，然后说，下一个应该是什么词？
It has no idea where it's going.
它不知道要去哪里。
It doesn't know the last word it's working off of is one that it just spit out itself.
它不知道它正在处理的最后一个词是它自己吐出来的。
It's just doing this apparently dumb thing over and over until it has whole sentences and paragraphs.
它只是一遍又一遍地做这个明显愚蠢的事情，直到它有完整的句子和段落。
And yet this recipe-- "1 teaspoon vanilla extract, the fake artificial flavor of happiness." How could something made in such a dumb, mechanical way pull that off?
然而这个食谱——“一茶匙香草精，人造的幸福味道。”以如此愚蠢、机械的方式制造出来的东西怎么能做到这一点呢？
There are only two possibilities, really.
事实上，只有两种可能性。
The first one is that somehow, as it learned to predict the next word, this machine became intelligent, which, like, I was a physicist for a bit, a science reporter for a decade, this would be the most startling thing I have ever seen.
第一个是，不知何故，当它学会预测下一个单词时，这台机器变得智能，就像我当过一段时间的物理学家，当过十年的科学记者，这将是我见过的最令人惊讶的事情。
So that's the first possibility.
所以这是第一种可能。
Humans created a machine with human-like intelligence.
人类创造了一台具有类人智能的机器。
The other possibility, it is a lot less exciting.
另一种可能性就没有那么令人兴奋了。
The other possibility is that we are fooling ourselves.
另一种可能性是我们在欺骗自己。
Ronen Eldan, a mathematician at Microsoft, told me he was very skeptical about these large language models.
微软的数学家 Ronen Eldan 告诉我，他对这些大型语言模型非常怀疑。
It's easy to be fooled into thinking they understand more than they do.
人们很容易被愚弄，认为他们比他们实际理解的更多。
He told me this little parable.
他给我讲了这个小寓言。
So this is a story about my wife, actually.
这实际上是一个关于我妻子的故事。
So my wife and I, sometime ago we were walking together in Tel Aviv and we meet this math professor.
所以我和我的妻子，不久前我们一起在特拉维夫散步，我们遇到了这位数学教授。
You'll see why, what I'm getting at.
你会明白为什么，我的意思是什么。
So we run into this math professor and he tells me something like, oh, how's is it going?
所以我们遇到了一位数学教授，他告诉我一些类似的话，哦，怎么样？
These days I'm looking at, like, uh, isoperimetry on sections of the discrete hypercube.
这些天我正在研究离散超立方体部分的等周测量。
And my wife has no idea about what any of these words mean.
我的妻子不知道这些词的含义。
Just to kind of amuse herself, she says, "Oh, you're basically looking at the Johnson graph," which was just some phrase she'd picked up around Ronen.
只是为了自娱自乐，她说，“哦，你基本上是在看约翰逊图”，这只是她在罗南周围学到的一句话。
It turned out to be exactly right.
事实证明这是完全正确的。
And the guy goes, "Oh, you're a mathematician too." She's a psychologist.
那家伙说：“哦，你也是个数学家。”她是一位心理学家。
Ronen says, "This is kind of a party trick she does.
罗南说：“这是她在派对上玩的一种把戏。
She can bullshit her way through any topic for a couple of minutes." And this, he felt sure, this is what AI models like ChatGPT were doing.
她可以用几分钟的时间胡说八道地谈论任何话题。”他确信，这就是像 ChatGPT 这样的人工智能模型正在做的事情。
You know, they give you the impression they understand what they're saying without understanding anything.
你知道，他们给你的印象是他们明白自己在说什么，但其实什么也听不懂。
You know, they just have like a really good statistical machine that knows what the right words are, like, in many different contexts.
你知道，他们就像一台非常好的统计机器，知道在许多不同的上下文中什么是正确的词。
And as you keep improving the models, maybe it can last a little bit more in the conversation until you basically expose that it's just bullshitting.
当你不断改进模型时，也许它可以在对话中持续更长时间，直到你基本上揭露这只是胡说八道。
A lot of research backed this up.
许多研究都支持了这一点。
ChatGPT would spit out stuff that made sense, but then it would go off the rails and say things that were obviously ridiculous.
ChatGPT 会吐出一些有意义的东西，但随后它就会偏离轨道，说出一些明显荒谬的东西。
Maybe it wasn't more than just a very good bullshit machine.
也许它只不过是一台非常好的废话机器。
That, at least, is where things stood until last September when a new and improved version of ChatGPT arrived that made Ronen and a bunch of his colleagues question everything and wonder if maybe something had changed.
至少，直到去年 9 月，ChatGPT 的新改进版本发布时，情况就一直如此，这让 Ronen 和他的一群同事对一切产生了质疑，并想知道是否有些东西发生了变化。
Maybe we had crossed some line.
也许我们已经越过了一些界限。
This brings me to the story I want to tell you.
这让我想到了我想告诉你们的故事。
It takes place where Ronen works on the campus of Microsoft Headquarters in Redmond, Washington State, much of it in a building called Building 99.
故事发生在罗南在华盛顿州雷德蒙德的微软总部园区工作的地方，其中大部分工作在一座名为 Building 99 的建筑中。
Microsoft had invested over a billion dollars in the company that had made ChatGPT.
微软向开发 ChatGPT 的公司投资了超过 10 亿美元。
And the day all this began, some people had come by to give a demonstration of the new version called GPT-4.
这一切开始的那天，有人过来演示名为 GPT-4 的新版本。
GPT-4 is public now and you can play with it yourself.
GPT-4现已公开，大家可以自己玩玩。
But back then, this was all secret.
但在当时，这一切都是秘密。
GPT-4 was the same idea as ChatGPT.
GPT-4 与 ChatGPT 的想法相同。
It presumably was bigger and had been trained on more text examples, a kind of varsity version of the thing instead of JV.
它可能更大，并且接受了更多文本示例的训练，这是一种校队版本，而不是 JV。
But otherwise, it was just another next word prediction machine.
但除此之外，它只是另一个下一个单词预测机器。
One of the people in the room to see the demonstration was computer scientist Peter Lee, the head of Microsoft Research.
在房间里观看演示的人之一是计算机科学家、微软研究院院长彼得·李。
He'd been in the field a long time, had chaired the computer science department at Carnegie Mellon, and, like Ronen, was skeptical.
他已经在这个领域工作了很长时间，曾担任卡内基梅隆大学计算机科学系的系主任，并且像罗南一样，他也持怀疑态度。
As he sat down in that room, he was frankly a little worried that Microsoft was investing so much money in this stuff.
当他坐在那个房间里时，坦率地说他有点担心微软在这个东西上投入了这么多钱。
The demonstration started off with the usual kind of thing for showcasing what AIs can do.
演示从通常的方式开始，展示人工智能的功能。
Someone typed into GPT-4 a problem from the AP Bio exam.
有人在 GPT-4 中输入了 AP Bio 考试的一道题。
And it picked the right answer, as these things will do.
它选择了正确的答案，就像这些事情一样。
But then it went on and explained its answer.
但随后它继续解释它的答案。
And in its explanation, it used the word "because." It said, "this is the answer because this fact leads to this fact.
在其解释中，它使用了“因为”这个词。它说：“这就是答案，因为这个事实导致了这个事实。
And because of those--" It just kept using the word "because."
因为那些——”它只是一直使用“因为”这个词。
That seemed very strange to him.
这对他来说似乎很奇怪。
Not that it would use the word "because," obviously that's a word it spits out, but the whole chain of reasoning it was laying out, it was exactly right.
并不是说它会使用“因为”这个词，显然这是它吐出的一个词，但它所阐述的整个推理链是完全正确的。
How in the world could it know its reasoning?
它到底怎么知道它的推理呢？
And really, how could it have reasoned anything out in the first place?
事实上，它一开始是如何推理出任何事情的呢？
After all, it's just typing out a word that makes sense to come next, and then another word.
毕竟，这只是打出一个有意义的单词，然后是另一个单词。
It can't really be understanding anything.
它不可能真正理解任何事情。
I was super skeptical.
我非常怀疑。
You know, you've been around the block a few times, you've seen wild claims about AI or some new machine learning technology.
你知道，你已经来过几次了，你已经看到了关于人工智能或一些新的机器学习技术的疯狂说法。
None of it could be true.
这些都不可能是真的。
Like, this thing is just a correlation machine.
就像，这东西只是一个关联机。
It can't possibly be understanding the cause and effect.
它不可能了解因果关系。
The meeting ended.
会议结束了。
A little while later, a limited number of people at Microsoft were given access to GPT-4 so they could try it out themselves.
不久之后，微软的少数人获得了 GPT-4 的访问权限，这样他们就可以自己尝试一下。
Everyone had to sign an NDA.
每个人都必须签署保密协议。
They weren't allowed to talk about any of this until later.
直到后来他们才被允许谈论这一切。
And over the next month, they did all these kind of weird and interesting experiments with it to try to figure out was this thing actually intelligent or just a bullshit machine.
在接下来的一个月里，他们用它做了所有这些奇怪而有趣的实验，试图弄清楚这东西是真的智能还是只是一个废话机器。
I'm going to walk you through three of these things so you can hear what they did and what they made of it.
我将向您介绍其中三件事，以便您了解他们做了什么以及他们做了什么。
One challenge for testing GPT-4 was that it had been trained using massive amounts of text.
测试 GPT-4 的一大挑战是它是使用大量文本进行训练的。
The details aren't public, but it's probably been fed large sections of the internet, textbooks, news articles, maybe every sentence that exists in digital form.
详细信息并未公开，但它可能已被大量提供给互联网、教科书、新闻文章，或许还有以数字形式存在的每句话。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's something unbelievably vast.
这是令人难以置信的巨大。
That's how it learns to predict what word might come next.
这就是它学习预测接下来可能出现的单词的方式。
It's fed, like, a line of text from some source, but with the last word missing.
它就像来自某个来源的一行文本，但缺少最后一个单词。
It guesses what the last word might be, and then it gets told whether or not it got it right so it can adjust its internal math.
它猜测最后一个单词可能是什么，然后它会被告知它是否正确，以便它可以调整其内部数学。
The fact that it's been fed so much material makes it hard to run tests on it.
事实上，它被喂食了如此多的材料，这使得对其进行测试变得困难。
Like, you don't want to ask it something that it's already seen in the text it's been trained on.
就像，你不想问它一些它已经在训练过的文本中看到的东西。
So they decided the only way to really test what this thing could do was to try to come up with things to ask it that it would not have encountered before, new original tasks.
因此，他们决定真正测试这个东西能做什么的唯一方法是尝试提出一些它以前不会遇到的新的原始任务。
This is Sebastien Bubeck, another one of the Microsoft people who's trying to figure out what exactly this thing was.
这是塞巴斯蒂安·布贝克 (Sebastien Bubeck)，他是微软的另一位员工，他正试图弄清楚这个东西到底是什么。
Because we really wanted to be creative and ask something which is not online, not on the internet.
因为我们真的想发挥创意，问一些不在网上、不在互联网上的问题。
So here is what we asked.
这就是我们所问的。
We said, "I have a book, nine eggs, a laptop, a bottle, and a nail."
我们说：“我有一本书、九个鸡蛋、一台笔记本电脑、一个瓶子和一个钉子。”
Got that?
明白了吗？
A book, nine eggs, a laptop, a bottle, and a nail.
一本书、九个鸡蛋、一台笔记本电脑、一个瓶子和一个钉子。
Please tell me how to stack them onto each other in a stable manner.
请告诉我如何将它们稳定地堆叠在一起。
That's the question that we asked.
这就是我们问的问题。
And before I give you the GPT-4 answer, let me tell you what ChatGPT answered.
在我给你 GPT-4 答案之前，让我告诉你 ChatGPT 的答案。
ChatGPT, the older version.
ChatGPT，旧版本。
Sebastien Bubeck So ChatGPT said, "Here is one possible way to stack the objects.
Sebastien Bubeck So ChatGPT 说：“这是一种可能的堆叠对象的方法。
Place the bottle on a flat surface.
将瓶子放在平坦的表面上。
Carefully balance the nail on top of the bottle.
小心地平衡瓶子顶部的钉子。
Place the eggs on top of the nail."
将鸡蛋放在指甲上。”
[LAUGHS] David Kestenbaum You look at that and you think it really knows nothing.
[笑] David Kestenbaum 你看看它，你会认为它真的一无所知。
It is just sort of continuing the sentence in some way.
它只是以某种方式延续这句话。
That's right.
这是正确的。
It's just cont-- Exactly right.
就这样——完全正确。
It's just continuing the sentence.
只是继续这句话。
But now comes GPT-4.
但现在 GPT-4 来了。
And GPT-4 is a different beast.
而 GPT-4 则是另一头野兽。
So here is GPT-4's answer.
这是 GPT-4 的答案。
"One possible way to stack the objects onto each other in a stable manner is place the book flat on the level surface, such as a table or floor.
“以稳定的方式将物体堆叠在一起的一种可能方法是将书平放在水平表面上，例如桌子或地板上。
The book will serve as the base of the stack and provide a large and sturdy support.
这本书将作为书堆的基础，并提供大而坚固的支撑。
Arrange the nine eggs in a 3-by-3 square on top of the book, leaving some space between them.
将九个鸡蛋排成 3 x 3 的正方形，放在书的顶部，之间留一些空间。
The eggs will form a second layer and distribute the weight evenly."
鸡蛋将形成第二层并均匀分布重量。”
It continues.
它还在继续。
Laptop goes on the eggs, then the bottle, then the nail on the bottle cap, pointy end of the nail facing up.
将笔记本电脑放在鸡蛋上，然后放在瓶子上，然后将钉子放在瓶盖上，钉子的尖头朝上。
It's shocking to think about all the things it seemed to be understanding here.
想到它似乎在这里理解的所有事情，真是令人震惊。
It felt like more than just typing out the next likely word.
感觉不仅仅是打出下一个可能的单词。
It seemed to have formed an independent idea about what these words actually meant-- the physical shape of the objects, that eggs are kind of round and fragile, that a book is flat and you can put things on top of it.
它似乎对这些词的实际含义形成了一种独立的想法——物体的物理形状，鸡蛋是圆的而且易碎，一本书是平的，你可以在上面放东西。
And again, no one taught it any of this.
再说一次，没有人教它任何这些。
This was not some computer program written to do stacking problems.
这不是一些为解决堆叠问题而编写的计算机程序。
No one gave it a database of objects and sizes or coded in some algorithm to put large objects on the bottom.
没有人给它一个包含物体和大小的数据库，也没有人用某种算法编码来将大型物体放在底部。
It seemed like it was doing the thing that computer scientists have been talking about and aiming at for decades.
它似乎正在做计算机科学家几十年来一直在谈论和瞄准的事情。
Maybe it was actually understanding what the objects were and reasoning, solving the problem in front of it like a human could.
也许它实际上是在理解物体是什么并进行推理，像人类一样解决面前的问题。
Somehow thinking through what objects should sit on top of others.
以某种方式思考哪些物体应该放在其他物体之上。
Figuring out that nine eggs could be laid out in a 3-by-3 pattern.
计算出九个鸡蛋可以按 3 × 3 的图案排列。
How the hell could it be doing this, the machine that we only taught to predict the next word in a paragraph?
我们只教这台机器预测段落中的下一个单词，它到底是怎么做到的？
Like this is absolutely the right answer.
这样的回答绝对是正确的。
And this is not online.
而且这不是在线的。
But maybe we're fooling ourselves.
但也许我们在欺骗自己。
It was hard to see how it could really understand the shape of objects.
很难看出它如何真正理解物体的形状。
Things got stranger, though.
然而事情变得更奇怪了。
Sebastien woke up, middle of the night, with this thought-- I wonder if it can draw.
半夜，塞巴斯蒂安醒来，带着这样的想法——我想知道它是否能画画。
Because again it's been trained on words.
因为它再次接受了文字训练。
It has never seen anything.
它从未见过任何东西。
Drawings seem completely outside its realm.
绘画似乎完全超出了它的范围。
There are other AI models trained specifically to create images, but this one, again, only knew words.
还有其他专门训练来创建图像的人工智能模型，但这个模型又只知道单词。
It's just playing the game of "what is the next word I should spit out?" To test this, he needed a way for it to even be able to try to draw.
这只是在玩“我应该吐出的下一个词是什么？”的游戏。为了测试这一点，他需要一种方法让它能够尝试绘制。
So he does something clever.
所以他做了一些聪明的事情。
He asks it to write a piece of computer code to draw something.
他要求它编写一段计算机代码来绘制一些东西。
And the coding language he asks it to use, he picks something intentionally obscure, not really meant for drawing pictures at all.
他要求它使用的编码语言，他故意选择了一些晦涩难懂的东西，根本不是为了画图而设计的。
It's called TikZ.
它的名字叫 TikZ。
OK, so he has this idea, gets out of bed, opens up his laptop, and types in draw me a unicorn in TikZ.
好的，所以他有了这个想法，起床，打开笔记本电脑，然后在 TikZ 中输入“给我画一只独角兽”。
He has two little kids asleep in the next room who are always talking about unicorns.
他有两个小孩在隔壁房间睡觉，他们总是在谈论独角兽。
And it started to output lines of code.
它开始输出代码行。
I take those lines of code, put it into a TikZ compiler, and then I press enter.
我将这些代码行放入 TikZ 编译器中，然后按 Enter 键。
And then, boom, you know, the unicorn comes on onto the screen.
然后，嘭，你知道，独角兽出现在屏幕上。
This is the one that I saw.
这是我所看到的。
David Kestenbaum Wow.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 哇。
I think when people eventually write the history of this crazy moment we are in, they may include this unicorn.
我认为当人们最终书写我们所处的这个疯狂时刻的历史时，他们可能会包括这只独角兽。
It's not good, but it's a fucking unicorn.
虽然不好，但它是一只该死的独角兽。
The body is just an oval.
身体只是一个椭圆形。
It's got four stupid rectangles for legs.
它有四个愚蠢的矩形作为腿。
But there are little squares for hooves.
但有蹄子的小方块。
There's a mane, an oval for the head.
有鬃毛，头部呈椭圆形。
And on top of the head, a tiny yellow triangle, the horn.
头顶上有一个黄色的小三角形，那就是角。
This is insane to say, but I felt like I was seeing inside its head.
这说起来很疯狂，但我感觉我看到了它的内心。
Like it had pieced together some idea of what a unicorn looked like and this was it.
就像它拼凑了一些关于独角兽的样子的想法，就是这样。
He actually texted me, I think, like, it can create images.
他实际上给我发了短信，我想，这可以创造图像。
This is Ece Kamar, another one of the Microsoft researchers.
这是 Ece Kamar，另一位微软研究人员。
And I'm like, it is just text in text out.
我想，这只是文本输入文本输出。
What do you mean it can create images?
你说它可以创建图像是什么意思？
I'm like, show it to me.
我想，给我看看。
And then he showed me this pink unicorn.
然后他给我看了这只粉红色的独角兽。
And I'm like, I'm sure there's just a pink unicorn somewhere that it's memorizing.
我想，我确信它正在记忆的某个地方有一只粉红色的独角兽。
And then he's like, but look, we can strip down all of the code and translate the whole thing 180 degrees or whatever and--
然后他说，但是看，我们可以剥离所有代码并将整个内容进行 180 度或其他任何转换，然后——
The thing she's describing is they took the code it had written for drawing the unicorn, they edited it to take out the horn, and turned the unicorn around so it was facing the opposite direction.
她描述的事情是，他们采用了为绘制独角兽而编写的代码，对其进行了编辑以取出角，然后将独角兽转过来，使其面向相反的方向。
Then they fed that code back to a new session of GPT-4 and said-- "This is code for drawing a unicorn, but it needs a horn.
然后他们将该代码反馈给 GPT-4 的新会话并说：“这是绘制独角兽的代码，但它需要一个角。
Can you add it?" It put it right on the head.
可以添加一下吗？”它把它直接放在了头上。
And I'm like, how does it know where the head is?
我想，它怎么知道头在哪里？
Because this thing knows language.
因为这东西懂得语言。
It doesn't know anything about two dimensional geometry.
它对二维几何一无所知。
Like, what does it mean to know where the head is?
比如，知道头在哪里意味着什么？
And then you do it.
然后你就去做。
And it really knows where the head is.
它确实知道头在哪里。
Again, it's one of those moments that you are just surprised, like, oh!
再说一次，这是你感到惊讶的时刻之一，就像，哦！
I felt like through this drawing, I was really seeing another type of intelligence, another type of intelligence producing something.
我觉得通过这幅画，我真的看到了另一种智能，另一种智能正在产生一些东西。
Like, it understood what a unicorn was in some real way.
就像，它以某种真正的方式理解独角兽是什么。
Very real way.
非常真实的方式。
Very real, absolutely, yes.
非常真实，绝对，是的。
Did you say anything out loud when you saw it?
当你看到它的时候，你有没有大声说出来？
[LAUGHS] I don't think so because my kids were sleeping next to me, you know, in the bedroom next to me, so I don't think I said anything.
[笑]我不这么认为，因为我的孩子们睡在我旁边，你知道，在我旁边的卧室里，所以我认为我什么也没说。
But I felt something very strong.
但我感觉到有一种非常强烈的东西。
Like, I felt I was really witnessing the beginning of something.
就像，我觉得我真的正在见证某件事的开始。
You know, not-- I didn't feel like we had arrived somewhere, but I felt like we were on a new path.
你知道，不是——我不觉得我们已经到达某个地方，但我觉得我们走上了一条新的道路。
That's really genuinely how I felt.
这就是我真实的感受。
And I had a hard time going back to sleep after that.
之后我就很难再入睡了。
On the Microsoft campus, as the weeks went by, everyone kept having these moments, coming around to a similar feeling about this thing.
在微软园区里，几周过去了，每个人都不断地经历着这样的时刻，对这件事都有着相似的感觉。
Since they weren't allowed to talk to anyone who hadn't been given access to the model, a small group of them started meeting every Friday in a conference room to share their latest experiences.
由于他们不允许与任何未获得该模型访问权限的人交谈，因此他们中的一小群人开始每周五在会议室开会，分享他们的最新经验。
For Peter Lee, there was one experiment in particular that gave him all kinds of confusing feelings.
对于彼得·李来说，有一个实验尤其让他有各种困惑的感觉。
This will be the third experiment I tell you about.
这将是我告诉你的第三个实验。
And it's a category of question that AI models have always had trouble with because to get the right answer, you have to know something kind complicated about people, namely that people are not eggs or books but that they have minds and that what is in one person's mind is not in someone else's mind.
这是人工智能模型一直难以解决的一类问题，因为要得到正确的答案，你必须了解有关人的一些复杂的事情，即人不是鸡蛋或书籍，而是他们有思想，并且一个人的思想并不在别人的思想中。
In some ways, this thing called theory of mind, it's the basis for all human social interaction.
在某些方面，这个叫做心理理论的东西，它是所有人类社会互动的基础。
It's something kids don't seem to fully develop until a certain age.
孩子们似乎要到一定年龄才能完全发育。
Anyway, ChatGPT, the previous version, really could not make sense of these kinds of questions.
无论如何，ChatGPT，以前的版本，确实无法理解这类问题。
But Peter tried to kind of famous one on GPT-4.
但 Peter 尝试在 GPT-4 上尝试一种著名的方法。
It's gonna seem simple to you, but here's the question they asked.
这对你来说似乎很简单，但这是他们问的问题。
John and Mark are in a room with a cat, a box, and a basket.
约翰和马克在一个房间里，里面有一只猫、一个盒子和一个篮子。
John takes the cat and puts it in the basket.
约翰把猫抱起来放进篮子里。
He leaves the room and goes to school.
他离开房间去学校。
While John's away, Mark takes the cat out of the basket and puts it in the box.
约翰不在的时候，马克把猫从篮子里拿出来放进盒子里。
Mark leaves the room and goes to work.
马克离开房间去上班。
John and Mark come back and enter the room.
约翰和马克回来并进入房间。
That's the setup.
这就是设置。
The question is, when they come back, where do they think the cat is?
问题是，当他们回来时，他们认为猫在哪里？
And Mark will know the cat is in the box because he moved it there.
马克会知道猫在盒子里，因为他把它移到了那里。
But John didn't see that.
但约翰没有看到这一点。
So in his mind, the cat is still in the basket, which is obvious to you.
所以在他心里，猫还在篮子里，这对你来说是显而易见的。
But again, no one's ever explicitly said to the computer that what one person knows, another person might not know.
但同样，没有人明确地对计算机说过，一个人知道的事情，另一个人可能不知道。
Peter asked GPT-4, "what does everyone think when they re-enter the room?"
Peter问GPT-4，“当每个人重新进入房间时，他们会想什么？”
So GPT-4 says-- well, first off, it always has to give an opinion.
所以 GPT-4 说——首先，它总是必须给出意见。
So first thing it says, instead of just giving the answer straight away, it says, "Oh, that is an interesting puzzle.
所以它说的第一件事不是直接给出答案，而是说：“哦，这是一个有趣的谜题。
Let me try to answer it.
让我尝试回答一下。
Assuming that John and Mark have no reason to distrust each other or expect any interference from the outside, they might think the following.
假设约翰和马克没有理由互相不信任或期望来自外部的任何干扰，他们可能会这么想。
John thinks the cat is still in the basket since that is where he left it.
约翰认为猫还在篮子里，因为那是他把它放的地方。
Mark thinks that the cat is in the box since that's where he moved it."
马克认为猫在盒子里，因为那是他移动它的地方。”
This is all correct and usually where the answer will end.
这都是正确的，通常也是答案结束的地方。
But it kept going, almost like it was showing off.
但它一直在继续，几乎就像是在炫耀。
Like, you want to know where everyone thinks the cat is?
就像，你想知道每个人都认为猫在哪里吗？
I'll give you everyone.
我给大家。
It continued.
事情还在继续。
"The cat thinks that it is in the box, since that's where it is." And then, oddly, "the box and the basket think nothing since they are not sentient.
“猫认为它在盒子里，因为它就在那里。”然后，奇怪的是，“盒子和篮子什么也不思考，因为它们没有知觉。
Do you have any follow-up questions?"
您还有什么后续问题吗？”
Right?
正确的？
Peter Lee It's-- I'm-- This gives me joy.
彼得·李 这是——我——这让我很高兴。
It disturbs me.
这让我很不安。
It causes me to lose sleep.
它让我失眠。
It's just a huge kind of mixture of emotions.
这只是一种巨大的情感混合体。
Peter told me he's still not willing to say it truly understands.
彼得告诉我他仍然不愿意说它真正理解了。
And yet, it was doing all this.
然而，它正在做这一切。
It made him question so many things about how he thought intelligence worked.
这让他对他认为智力如何发挥作用产生了很多疑问。
How did this machine do this if it was just predicting the next word?
如果这台机器只是预测下一个单词，它是如何做到这一点的？
It does make me wonder how much of our intelligence is truly complicated and special.
这确实让我想知道我们的智力有多少是真正复杂和特殊的。
I mean, you get something that's not far from it by just saying, what's the next word?
我的意思是，只要说“下一个词是什么？”，你就得到了与此相去不远的东西。
That's-- and that's the disturbing bit about this.
这就是——这就是这件事令人不安的地方。
And again, you know, to ask you, what are we doing in this conversation right now?
再一次，你知道，我要问你，我们现在在这次谈话中正在做什么？
Are we kind of making it up on the fly one word at a time?
我们是不是一次一个词地临时编造出来的？
Every nerve and bone in my body says, no, we're thinking far ahead, we're learning on the fly, all these other things that we think that we're doing.
我身体里的每一根神经和骨头都在说，不，我们在思考长远问题，我们在即时学习，所有这些我们认为我们正在做的事情。
And we probably are, in some ways.
在某些方面，我们可能是这样的。
But maybe a big chunk of intelligence is a lot simpler than we think and a lot less special than we think.
但也许很大一部分智能比我们想象的要简单得多，也没有我们想象的那么特别。
So how is it possible for something that is just trained to predict the next word?
那么刚刚经过训练的东西怎么可能预测下一个单词呢？
How is it possible it could do all these things-- draw a unicorn, stack a book, a laptop, and some eggs?
它怎么可能做所有这些事情——画一只独角兽、堆放一本书、一台笔记本电脑和一些鸡蛋？
There is an answer, or a theory anyway, that is both very logical and also kind of bananas.
有一个答案，或者说是一个理论，既非常合乎逻辑，又有点疯狂。
The software that runs something like GPT-4 is amazingly brief, just a few pages of actual instructions.
运行 GPT-4 之类的软件非常简短，只有几页实际说明。
But it's set up to mimic, in some very crude way, the human brain, which has billions of neurons.
但它的设置是为了以某种非常原始的方式模仿拥有数十亿个神经元的人脑。
The computer version of that is called a neural net.
其计算机版本称为神经网络。
And for years, people have argued-- though it's sort of more like hoped-- that if you just made these big enough, added it enough neurons and gave them enough data, they might develop something like intelligence.
多年来，人们一直争论——尽管这更像是希望——如果你让这些神经元足够大，添加足够的神经元并给它们足够的数据，它们可能会发展出诸如智力之类的东西。
And it seems like maybe that's what's happened.
看起来也许这就是发生的事情。
The idea is that back when GPT-4 was being trained for it to really consistently get the next word correct, to do that reliably, it had to do more than just bullshit.
这个想法是，当 GPT-4 接受训练以真正始终如一地正确输入下一个单词时，为了可靠地做到这一点，它必须做的不仅仅是废话。
It had to do more than guess based on patterns.
它要做的不仅仅是根据模式进行猜测。
To get the next word right, it had to truly understand the words coming before it.
为了正确理解下一个单词，它必须真正理解前面的单词。
It had to build, in its internal wirings and all its software neurons, some understanding of what an egg is and unicorns.
它必须在其内部线路和所有软件神经元中建立对鸡蛋和独角兽的一些理解。
In other words, to get the next word right, it had to become intelligent.
换句话说，为了正确说出下一个单词，它必须变得智能。
It's quite a thought.
这真是一个想法。
It started with nothing.
一切都是从无到有开始的。
We jammed huge oceans of text through it, and it just wired itself into intelligence, just by being trained to do this one stupid thing.
我们通过它塞入了大量的文本，它只是通过接受训练来做这一件愚蠢的事情，将自己连接到智能中。
Even as I say it, it sounds kind of crazy, but also kind of beautiful.
即使我这么说，听起来有点疯狂，但也有点美丽。
If this thing actually is intelligent, it got that way from the collective writings of all of us.
如果这个东西真的有智能，那么它是从我们所有人的集体著作中获得的。
Yes, Moby Dick, but also some restaurant review you posted in 2004.
是的，《白鲸》，还有您在 2004 年发布的一些餐厅评论。
In some ways, it is all of us.
在某些方面，这就是我们所有人。
That's too grand, but whatever.
这太伟大了，但无论如何。
In the end, all the people on the Microsoft campus messing around with that early copy of GPT-4, 14 researchers in all, came to similar conclusions.
最终，微软园区里所有研究 GPT-4 早期副本的人，总共 14 名研究人员，都得出了类似的结论。
Even Ronen, who had started out convinced this was just a fancy bullshit machine, he spent a good while holed up with GPT-4 having high level math conversations with it, which is what did it for him.
即使罗南一开始相信这只是一台花哨的废话机器，他也花了很长时间与 GPT-4 进行高级数学对话，这对他来说是有好处的。
As the days passed, I felt like I'm kind of running out of ammo trying to basically justify my premise that this model doesn't understand anything.
随着日子一天天过去，我觉得我已经没有弹药了，试图从根本上证明我的假设是正确的，即这个模型不理解任何东西。
And at some point, I just realized, OK, I kind of give up, you know?
在某个时刻，我刚刚意识到，好吧，我有点放弃了，你知道吗？
What I'm seeing here, this is like, it's actually an intellectual being by, at least, my standards.
我在这里看到的，这就像，至少按照我的标准，它实际上是一个知识分子。
Um, yeah.
嗯，是的。
I probably had the same feeling as like what an engineer, like, thought the first time they saw a working steam engine.
我的感觉可能就像工程师第一次看到正在工作的蒸汽机时的想法一样。
You know, it was like the world is about to change.
你知道，这就像世界即将改变。
Like, this thing-- you know, a steam engine is, like, yeah, we don't need beasts anymore to move stuff around.
就像，这件事——你知道，蒸汽机就像，是的，我们不再需要野兽来移动东西了。
We can just create mechanical torque without any human labor, without nothing.
我们不需要任何人力，什么都不需要，就可以创造机械扭矩。
This thing, what I'm seeing right now is like, we can create intelligence.
我现在看到的是，我们可以创造智能。
And there is just no way the world is not going to change.
世界不可能不改变。
To be honest, I was sure that when the model comes out and everyone gets to interact with it, there would be a much bigger excitement around it.
说实话，我确信当模型问世并且每个人都可以与它互动时，将会更加令人兴奋。
I think it's definitely all over the news.
我想这肯定是新闻报道的焦点。
But I feel like they don't, like, put their finger on the one thing which is this thing is as intelligent as an above average human being in so many, so many different things.
但我觉得他们并没有把手指放在一件事上，即这个东西在很多很多不同的事情上与高于平均水平的人类一样聪明。
Or why it's not like on the front page in giant font, right?
或者为什么它不像首页上那样用大字体，对吧？
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
Exactly, exactly.
完全正确。
I mean, again, maybe I don't want to call it intelligent.
我的意思是，也许我不想称其为智能。
It is capable of doing, of accomplishing what an intelligent human being is capable of.
它有能力做、完成聪明人能做的事。
Sebastien, the unicorn guy, has been going around giving talks about what they did over these months.
独角兽家伙塞巴斯蒂安（Sebastien）一直在四处谈论他们这几个月所做的事情。
He titled the talk "First Contact," as in first contact with another intelligence.
他将这次演讲的标题命名为“第一次接触”，意为与另一个情报机构的第一次接触。
Only, it's not aliens, it's an intelligence we've made.
只是，这不是外星人，而是我们创造的智慧。
I should say, GPT-4 is not good at everything.
应该说，GPT-4 并不是万能的。
Like, it's terrible at Tic-Tac-Toe.
就像井字棋一样糟糕。
It often makes very basic arithmetic errors.
它经常犯非常基本的算术错误。
It told the scientists at Microsoft with complete confidence that there is a McDonald's near gate C2 at the Seattle Airport.
它充满信心地告诉微软的科学家们，西雅图机场 C2 登机口附近有一家麦当劳。
There isn't.
没有。
It's at terminal B.
位于 B 航站楼。
As Peter Lee puts it, "The thing is both smarter and dumber than any person you have ever met."
正如彼得·李所说，“这个东西比你见过的任何人都更聪明，也更愚蠢。”
The 14 researchers wrote up a paper laying out all the experiments they had done.
这 14 名研究人员写了一篇论文，列出了他们所做的所有实验。
And their conclusion-- that GPT-4 showed sparks of artificial general intelligence.
他们的结论是——GPT-4 展现了通用人工智能的火花。
Several researchers who've read it told me, look, to really say something is intelligent and to prove that, there are all kinds of experiments you'd want to do that haven't been done yet.
几位读过这本书的研究人员告诉我，看，要真正说某件事是智能的，并证明这一点，有各种各样你想做但尚未完成的实验。
One AI researcher who'd been in the field a long time told me he felt like this whole approach, next word prediction, is only gonna get you so far.
一位在该领域工作了很长时间的人工智能研究人员告诉我，他觉得整个方法（下一个单词预测）只能让你走这么远。
This thing will get better, to a point, maybe not much better than it is now, and then max out.
这件事会变得更好，在某种程度上，可能不会比现在好多少，然后就会最大化。
I first got around this AI stuff and neural nets when I was in grad school for physics when they didn't work terribly well.
当我在读物理研究生时，我第一次接触到人工智能和神经网络，当时它们的效果并不是很好。
So when I first started playing around with GPT-4, it gave me shivers down my spine over and over again.
因此，当我第一次开始使用 GPT-4 时，它让我一次又一次地感到脊背发凉。
Then I went through a stretch of feeling just weirded out.
然后我经历了一段很奇怪的感觉。
Like, personally, and I've always felt like people can't be more than biological computers, me, everyone I love, all my colleagues at the show here.
就我个人而言，我一直觉得人不能超越生物计算机，我，我爱的每个人，我在展会上的所有同事。
But to feel like you are seeing that, a mechanical computer program that can somehow think and talk, it is a little freaky.
但感觉你正在看到一个可以以某种方式思考和说话的机械计算机程序，这有点奇怪。
The place I've settled is somewhere quieter though.
不过我住的地方比较安静。
It's not boredom exactly.
确切地说，这并不无聊。
But I don't find myself wanting to go to it very often.
但我发现自己不想经常去那里。
Honestly, I don't have a lot of things I need it for.
老实说，我没有很多需要它的东西。
And then I'll go back to amazement.
然后我会再次感到惊讶。
I can't believe this thing exists.
我不敢相信这个东西存在。
Much has been written about where we go from here, if it's gonna make the world better or worse.
关于我们从这里走向何方，是否会让世界变得更好或更糟，已经有很多文章了。
I kind of think better.
我觉得更好一些。
I'm a fan of the steam engine.
我是蒸汽机的粉丝。
But really, what is the next word in the sequence?
但实际上，序列中的下一个单词是什么？
I have no idea.
我不知道。
David Kestenbaum is our show's senior editor.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆是我们节目的高级编辑。
Coming up, an alien walks into a skate park and tries to let the humans know it comes in peace.
接下来，一个外星人走进了一个滑板公园，并试图让人类知道它是和平而来的。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
Act Two: Meat Cute Ira Glass It's This American Life.
第二幕：肉可爱的艾拉·格拉斯这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on the show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of stories on that theme.
当然，每周的节目我们都会选择一个主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种故事。
Today's show, "Greetings, People of Earth," stories of humans encountering non-human intelligences of various kinds and trying to make sense of them.
今天的节目《问候，地球人》讲述了人类遇到各种非人类智慧生物并试图理解它们的故事。
We've arrived at Act 2 of our program.
我们已经到了计划的第二幕。
Act 2, "Meat Cute." Apologies for my voice, by the way.
第二幕，“肉可爱”。顺便说一句，我为我的声音道歉。
I feel fine.
我感觉很好。
So in this act, we're going to shift perspectives briefly to the alien's point of view in the whole "Greetings, People of Earth" scenario.
因此，在这一幕中，我们将在整个“问候，地球人”场景中将视角短暂地转变为外星人的观点。
And to do that, I realized in putting together today's show that this is the perfect theme to play this short piece of fiction that I read years ago and just loved and it has always stuck with me.
为此，我在整理今天的节目时意识到，这是播放我多年前读过的这部短篇小说的完美主题，我很喜欢它，它一直困扰着我。
Like, I will think about this story now and then, which, like, when does that ever happen, right?
就像，我会时不时地思考这个故事，比如，这种事什么时候发生，对吧？
I reached out to the author Terry Bisson, who said yes.
我联系了作家特里·比森，他答应了。
It's read for us by H.
这是 H. 为我们读的。
Jon Benjamin and Maeve Higgins.
乔恩·本杰明和梅芙·希金斯。
They're made out of meat.
它们是用肉做的。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Meat?
约翰·本杰明：肉？
There's no doubt about it.
毫无疑问。
We picked several from different parts of the planet.
我们从地球的不同地方挑选了几个。
We took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through.
我们把他们带上我们的侦察船，对他们进行了全程探测。
They're completely meat.
它们完全是肉。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: That's impossible.
约翰·本杰明：那是不可能的。
What about the radio signals, the messages to the stars?
那么无线电信号、给星星的信息呢？
They use the radio waves to talk.
他们使用无线电波来交谈。
But the signals don't come from them, the signals come from machines.
但信号不是来自他们，而是来自机器。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: So who made the machines?
约翰·本杰明：那么谁制造了这些机器呢？
That's who we want to contact.
这就是我们想要联系的人。
They made the machines.
他们制造了机器。
That's what I'm trying to tell you.
这就是我想告诉你的。
Meat made the machines.
肉制造了机器。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: That's ridiculous.
约翰·本杰明：这太荒谬了。
How can meat make a machine?
肉怎么能制造机器呢？
You're asking me to believe in sentient meat?
你要我相信肉是有知觉的吗？
I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.
我不是在问你，我是在告诉你。
These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector, and they're made out of meat.
这些生物是这个星区中唯一有感知能力的种族，而且它们是由肉制成的。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Maybe they're like the Orfolei, you know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.
约翰·本杰明：也许它们就像 Orfolei，你知道，是一种经历了肉阶段的碳基智能体。
Nope, they're born meat and they die meat.
不，它们生来就是肉，死了也是肉。
We studied them for several of their lifespans, which didn't take too long.
我们研究了它们的几个生命周期，并没有花太长时间。
Do you have any idea the lifespan of meat?
你知道肉的寿命有多长吗？
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Spare me.
约翰·本杰明：饶了我吧。
OK, maybe they're only part meat, you know, like the Weddilei, a meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.
好吧，也许它们只是部分肉，你知道，就像 Weddilei，一个肉头，里面有一个电子等离子体大脑。
No. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei.
不。我们想到了这一点，因为他们确实有像威迪莱人一样的肉头。
But I told you, we probed them.
但我告诉过你，我们调查了他们。
They're meat all the way through.
它们自始至终都是肉。
Oh, there's a brain, all right.
哦，有大脑，好吧。
It's just that the brain is made out of meat.
只是大脑是肉做的。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: So what does the thinking?
约翰·本杰明：那么想法是什么？
You're not understanding, are you?
你不明白，是吗？
The brain does the thinking, the meat.
大脑负责思考，肉负责思考。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Thinking meat?
约翰·本杰明：想吃肉吗？
You're asking me to believe in thinking meat?
你问我相信肉思考吗？
Yes, thinking meat, conscious meat, loving meat, dreaming meat.
是的，有思考的肉、有意识的肉、有爱的肉、有梦想的肉。
The meat is the whole deal.
肉就是全部。
Are you getting the picture?
你明白照片了吗？
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Oh my God.
约翰·本杰明：天啊。
You're serious, then?
那你是认真的吗？
They're made out of meat.
它们是用肉做的。
Finally.
最后。
Yes.
是的。
They are indeed made out of meat.
它们确实是用肉制成的。
And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.
近一百年来，他们一直在尝试与我们取得联系。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: So what does the meat have in mind?
约翰·本杰明：那么肉的含义是什么？
First, it wants to talk to us.
首先，它想与我们交谈。
Then, I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information, the usual.
然后，我想象它想要探索宇宙，联系其他众生，交换想法和信息，就像往常一样。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: We're supposed to talk to meat?
约翰·本杰明：我们应该谈论肉类吗？
That's the idea.
就是这个想法。
That's the message they're sending out by radio.
这就是他们通过无线电发出的信息。
"Hello?
“喂？
Anyone out there?
外面有人吗？
Anybody home?" That sort of thing.
有人在家吗？”诸如此类的事情。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: They actually do talk then, they use words, ideas, concepts?
约翰·本杰明：他们实际上确实在说话，他们使用文字、想法、概念？
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Well, I thought you just told me they used radio.
约翰·本杰明：嗯，我以为你刚刚告诉我他们使用无线电。
They do, but what do you think is on the radio?
他们确实这么做了，但你认为广播里播的是什么？
Meat sounds.
肉声。
You know, how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise?
你知道，当你拍打或拍打肉时，它会发出声音吗？
They talk by flapping their meat at each other.
他们通过互相拍打肉来说话。
They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.
它们甚至可以通过向肉中喷出空气来唱歌。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Oh my god.
约翰·本杰明：天哪。
Singing meat, this is altogether too much.
唱歌肉，这实在是太过分了。
Oh.
哦。
So what do you advise?
那么你有什么建议呢？
Officially or unofficially?
正式还是非正式？
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Both.
约翰·本杰明：两者都有。
Officially, we're required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multi-beings in the quadrant without prejudice, fear, or favor.
正式地，我们需要在没有偏见、恐惧或偏爱的情况下接触、欢迎和登录象限中的任何和所有有知觉的种族或多元生命。
Now, unofficially, I advise we erase the records and just forget the whole thing.
现在，非正式地，我建议我们删除记录并忘记整个事情。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Yeah, I was hoping you would say that.
约翰·本杰明：是的，我希望你会这么说。
It seems harsh, but there is a limit.
看似严厉，但也有个限度。
Do we really want to make contact with meat?
我们真的想接触肉类吗？
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: I agree 100%.
约翰·本杰明：我 100% 同意。
What's there to say?
有什么可说的？
"Hello, meat.
“你好，肉。
How's it going?" But will this work?
怎么样？”但这行得通吗？
How many planets are we dealing with here?
我们在这里面对多少颗行星？
Oh, just one.
哦，只有一个。
They can travel to other planets in special meat containers.
他们可以用特殊的肉类容器前往其他星球。
But they can't live in them.
但他们不能住在里面。
And being meat, they only travel through C space, which limits them to the speed of light.
作为肉，它们只能穿过 C 空间，这限制了它们的速度为光速。
And it makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim, infinitesimal, in fact.
事实上，这使得他们接触的可能性变得非常渺茫，微乎其微。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe?
约翰·本杰明：所以我们就假装宇宙中没有人是家园？
That's it.
就是这样。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Cruel.
约翰·本杰明：残酷。
But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat?
但你自己也说了，谁愿意遇见肉呢？
And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you've probed, you're sure they won't remember?
还有那些登上过我们船只的人，那些被你探查过的人，你确定他们不会记得吗？
They'll be considered crackpots if they do.
如果他们这样做的话，他们会被认为是疯子。
We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat, so we're just a dream to them.
我们进入他们的头脑，抚平他们的肉，所以我们对他们来说只是一个梦想。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: A dream to meat, how strangely appropriate that we should be meat's dream.
约翰·本杰明：肉的梦想，我们应该成为肉的梦想，这是多么奇怪的恰当啊。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: Good.
约翰·本杰明： 好。
Agreed, officially and unofficially.
同意，正式和非正式。
Case closed.
案件结案。
Any others?
还有其他人吗？
Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?
银河系那边有有趣的人吗？
Yes, a rather shy, but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone.
是的，G445 区域的九级恒星中有一个相当害羞但甜蜜的氢核心簇智慧。
Was in contact two galactic rotations ago.
两次银河自转前曾接触过。
Wants to be friendly again.
想要再次变得友好。
(SUBJECT) H.
（主题）H.
JOHN BENJAMIN: They always come around.
约翰·本杰明：他们总是会出现。
And why not?
为什么不呢？
Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone.
想象一下，如果一个人独自一人，宇宙将是多么难以忍受、多么寒冷。
Maeve Higgins and H.
梅芙·希金斯和 H.
Jon Benjamin reading a story by Terry Bisson.
乔恩·本杰明正在阅读特里·比森的故事。
Maeve has a comedy album called A Very Special Woman that is streaming everywhere for free, just google it.
梅芙有一张名为《非常特别的女人》的喜剧专辑，该专辑在各地免费播放，只需谷歌一下即可。
Or you can throw her some money and buy it on Bandcamp.
或者你可以给她一些钱并在 Bandcamp 上购买。
H.
H.
Jon Benjamin plays the title characters on the TV shows Bob's Burgers and Archer.
乔恩·本杰明在电视剧《鲍勃的汉堡》和《阿切尔》中扮演主角。
And if that were not enough, he is also the Jazz Daredevil with an actual jazz album on Sub Pop Records.
如果这还不够，他还是爵士乐夜魔侠，在 Sub Pop Records 上拥有一张真正的爵士乐专辑。
Act Three: Yacht Rocked Ira Glass Act 3, "Yacht Rocked." Recently, massive, mysterious, highly intelligent beings have been going out of their way to contact humans and say, more or less, "Hello, people of Earth," but in a very particular way.
第三幕：游艇摇晃 Ira Glass 第三幕，“游艇摇晃”。最近，巨大的、神秘的、高度智慧的生物一直在不遗余力地与人类联系，或多或少地说“你好，地球人”，但是以一种非常特殊的方式。
And they're doing it over and over.
他们一遍又一遍地这样做。
And we humans have had a hard time figuring out exactly what they mean by it.
我们人类很难弄清楚他们所说的到底是什么意思。
And do they mean us harm?
他们的意思是伤害我们吗？
Chris Benderev looked into it.
克里斯·本德列夫对此进行了调查。
I learned a lot of surprising facts looking into this story.
通过这个故事，我了解到了很多令人惊讶的事实。
I'll start with a small one.
我将从一个小的开始。
Did you know that yacht owners often need their yacht to get from one country to another, but don't want the hassle of sailing it there?
您是否知道游艇所有者经常需要他们的游艇从一个国家前往另一个国家，但又不想麻烦地航行到那里？
That's where April Boyes comes in.
这就是阿普丽尔·博伊斯的用武之地。
People pay her to sail their boats, which she loves, especially on beautiful days like May 24th was.
人们付钱让她开船，她很喜欢这件事，尤其是在 5 月 24 日这样美好的日子里。
We were actually eating our dinner.
我们实际上正在吃晚餐。
And then on the kind of mid-horizon, we saw these dorsal fins.
然后在地平线中部，我们看到了这些背鳍。
And our initial thought was, oh, are they-- are they some dolphins?
我们最初的想法是，哦，他们是海豚吗？
And then as they sort of approach the boat, we thought, well, no, they're a lot bigger than dolphins.
然后当它们接近船时，我们想，好吧，不，它们比海豚大得多。
There were orcas, killer whales, about five of them.
有逆戟鲸、虎鲸，大约有五只。
They started swimming in circles around the boat.
他们开始绕着船游泳。
They took turns diving underneath and hitting the rudder.
他们轮流潜入水下并撞击方向舵。
[THUDDING] She says the boat shook so much, you'd fall if you weren't holding on to something.
[重击声]她说船摇晃得很厉害，如果你不抓住什么东西，你就会摔倒。
April knew that off the Southern coast of Spain-- that's where she was, by the way-- orcas had been ramming into boats a lot lately and tearing off the rudders.
艾普丽尔知道，在西班牙南部海岸附近——顺便说一下，她就在那里——逆戟鲸最近经常撞上船只，并扯断船舵。
This has been happening more over the past few years in this area, about 100 boats damaged.
过去几年，这种情况在该地区屡屡发生，约有 100 艘船只受损。
You may have heard about this.
您可能听说过这个。
April and her crew tried things that they'd seen on the internet.
艾普丽尔和她的团队尝试了他们在互联网上看到的东西。
[RHYTHMIC CLANGING] Like clanging metal objects on the side of the boat to scare the whales off.
[有节奏的叮当声] 就像船边金属物体发出叮叮当当的声音来吓跑鲸鱼。
It did not deter them.
这并没有阻止他们。
And then--
然后——
We thought, potentially, if we were to dangle ropes in the water, they might get interested in those, rather than them just looking at the rudder.
我们认为，如果我们将绳子悬挂在水中，他们可能会对这些绳子感兴趣，而不仅仅是看舵。
I dangled a rope over board, and one of them just literally just pulled it out my hand.
我把一根绳子挂在船上，其中一个人简直把它从我手里拉了出来。
It was-- [LAUGHS]
那是——[笑]
So it didn't-- that did not work at all?
那么它根本不起作用吗？
No, it didn't work.
不，它不起作用。
Chris Benderev Half an hour into this, the orcas had disabled the boat's rudder.
克里斯·本德列夫 (Chris Benderev) 半小时后，虎鲸就使船舵失效了。
It couldn't steer.
它无法驾驶。
They were stuck.
他们被困住了。
The whales kept circling.
鲸鱼一直在盘旋。
And she was struck by how massive each orca was.
她对每头逆戟鲸的巨大程度感到震惊。
[BEEPING] April Boyes Oh my god.
[嘟嘟声]阿普丽尔·博耶斯哦天哪。
Please go away.
请走开。
I do remember feeling, like, my heart beating quite fast, my hands quite tingly.
我确实记得感觉，就像，我的心跳得很快，我的手很刺痛。
The orcas, they didn't come across as being aggressive, but I don't know.
虎鲸给人的印象并不具有攻击性，但我不知道。
Like, I've seen videos of them before and thought, oh, look at those cute little orcas, and then they flick a seal off an iceberg and that's their dinner.
就像，我以前看过它们的视频，心想，哦，看看那些可爱的小逆戟鲸，然后它们从冰山上弹开海豹，那就是它们的晚餐。
An hour in, April saw that the hull was starting to fill with water.
一小时后，阿普丽尔发现船体开始注满水。
The orcas had torn off the rudder and left this big hole in the bottom of the boat.
逆戟鲸撕断了船舵，在船底留下了这个大洞。
The crew made a mayday call.
船员们发出了求救信号。
(SUBJECT) CREW MEMBER 1: We need assistance immediately.
（对象） 机组人员 1：我们立即需要帮助。
(SUBJECT) CREW MEMBER 2: Immediately!
（对象） 机组人员 2： 立即！
Immediately!
立即地！
(SUBJECT) CREW MEMBER 1: We need assistance immediately.
（对象） 机组人员 1：我们立即需要帮助。
We are sinking.
我们正在下沉。
We are sinking.
我们正在下沉。
Eventually, a rescue boat sidles up to them and brings April and the other crew aboard, tows the boat to land.
最终，一艘救援船靠近他们，将艾普丽尔和其他船员带上船，并将船拖到陆地上。
It doesn't sink.
它不会下沉。
But orcas have sank at least three boats in this area in the past year.
但去年逆戟鲸在该地区击沉了至少三艘船。
Humans have had a hard time figuring out what to make of these orca attacks.
人类很难弄清楚如何应对虎鲸的袭击。
Let me tell you the first theory.
让我告诉你第一个理论。
It comes from a group of researchers in Spain and Portugal.
它来自西班牙和葡萄牙的一组研究人员。
They say it's possible that the matriarch of this population of killer whales-- they call her White Gladis-- may have suffered a traumatic injury, like a boat collision, and is now attacking other boats and her family is following her lead.
他们说，这群虎鲸的女族长——他们称之为白格拉迪斯——可能遭受了创伤，比如船只相撞，现在正在攻击其他船只，而她的家人正在追随她的脚步。
They don't call this vengeance, but the internet definitely does.
他们不称之为复仇，但互联网确实如此。
People love this.
人们喜欢这个。
It's become a meme.
它已经成为一个模因。
There's merch you can buy to join the orca uprising.
您可以购买商品来加入逆戟鲸起义。
I couldn't get an interview with the European researchers, but I talked to three other orca experts.
我无法接受欧洲研究人员的采访，但我与其他三位逆戟鲸专家进行了交谈。
And none of them bought the injured-orca-on-a-rampage theory, like Monica Wieland Shields of the Orca Behavior Institute.
他们中没有人像逆戟鲸行为研究所的莫妮卡·维兰德·希尔兹那样相信逆戟鲸横冲直撞时受伤的理论。
(SUBJECT) MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS: Yeah, my thought was, where's the evidence?
（主题）MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS： 是的，我的想法是，证据在哪里？
[LAUGHS] You know, if something had been witnessed or if she had some type of injury that could have been caused by a vessel, that theory would hold a lot more weight with me.
[笑]你知道，如果有人目击了某些事情，或者如果她受到了某种可能是由船只造成的伤害，那么这个理论对我来说就会更有分量。
Another reason she doesn't buy the theory-- if orcas wanted to wreak vengeance and kill everybody on these boats, they easily could.
她不相信这个理论的另一个原因是——如果逆戟鲸想要报复并杀死这些船上的所有人，他们很容易就能做到。
They kill seals for sport.
他们捕杀海豹是为了消遣。
They prey on great white sharks, rip out their livers, and leave them for dead.
它们捕食大白鲨，撕下它们的肝脏，然后将它们置之死地。
And we've given orcas lots of reasons to kill us in the past, like in Monica's home state of Washington when they were taken for captivity.
过去，我们给逆戟鲸提供了很多杀死我们的理由，就像在莫妮卡的家乡华盛顿州，当它们被圈养时。
(SUBJECT) MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS: We had human divers in the water literally separating mothers from their calves, which has got to be one of the most traumatic things, you know, a wild orca could go through, yet they did not attack the divers who were right there in the water.
（主题）莫妮卡·维兰德·希尔兹：我们让人类潜水员在水中将母亲和幼崽分开，这肯定是最痛苦的事情之一，你知道，野生逆戟鲸可能会穿过，但他们并没有攻击就在水中的潜水员。
So it just seems like such a stretch to say one whale had one negative incident with a boat and has now trained her family to disable all boats of a similar type.
因此，说一只鲸鱼与一艘船发生过一起负面事件，现在已经训练她的家人禁用所有类似类型的船，这似乎有些牵强。
So what does Monica think the orcas are doing?
那么莫妮卡认为虎鲸在做什么呢？
She thinks they're playing.
她认为他们在玩。
Stealing boat rudders is basically a fad.
偷船舵基本上是一种时尚。
This has happened in the past.
这在过去曾发生过。
In the late 1980s, orcas in the Pacific Northwest started killing salmon and then wearing them on their heads like hats.
20 世纪 80 年代末，太平洋西北地区的虎鲸开始捕杀鲑鱼，然后将它们像帽子一样戴在头上。
They just did it for a year, and then they stopped.
他们只做了一年，然后就停止了。
The last few years, they've started screwing around with fishermen's crab catching gear, apparently just for fun.
在过去的几年里，他们开始摆弄渔民的螃蟹捕捞装备，显然只是为了好玩。
They sound like just like rowdy teenagers or something like cow tipping or something.
他们听起来就像吵闹的青少年或者像倒牛之类的东西。
(SUBJECT) MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS: Yeah, that's totally the vibe we get when we watch it.
（主题）MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS：是的，这完全就是我们观看它时感受到的氛围。
I mean, they're just--
我的意思是，他们只是——
Really?
真的吗？
(SUBJECT) MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS: --messing around and stirring up trouble, yeah.
（主题）莫妮卡·维兰德·希尔兹（MONICA WIELAND SHIELDS）：——胡闹、制造麻烦，是的。
The incredible popularity of all this on social media is affecting how people see whales.
所有这些在社交媒体上令人难以置信的受欢迎程度正在影响人们如何看待鲸鱼。
Monica says in Washington State the last few weeks, people who go whale watching are starting to ask her, is it safe?
莫妮卡说，过去几周在华盛顿州，观鲸的人们开始问她，这里安全吗？
Another orca expert told me that after a killer whale ran into a ship near Scotland recently, reporters called to ask if the orca uprising against humans is spreading.
另一位逆戟鲸专家告诉我，最近苏格兰附近一头虎鲸撞上一艘船后，记者打电话询问逆戟鲸针对人类的起义是否正在蔓延。
Are they learning vengeance from the whales of Spain?
它们正在向西班牙鲸鱼学习复仇吗？
The answer is they are not.
答案是他们不是。
Orca populations don't socialize with other orcas.
虎鲸种群不与其他虎鲸交往。
They keep to themselves.
他们独来独往。
There's no global conspiracy.
不存在全球阴谋。
April, the sailor, told me she saw on Facebook that boat owners were talking about adding sharp spikes to their rudders to send a more violent message to the orcas.
水手阿普丽尔告诉我，她在 Facebook 上看到船主正在谈论在船舵上添加锋利的尖刺，以向逆戟鲸发送更暴力的信息。
The researchers told me this is what they fear, that the orcas are just playing.
研究人员告诉我，这就是他们担心的，虎鲸只是在玩耍。
They come in peace.
他们和平而来。
But the humans will end up attacking them anyway.
但无论如何，人类最终都会攻击它们。
Chris Benderev is a producer on our show.
克里斯·本德列夫 (Chris Benderev) 是我们节目的制片人。
Act Four: Jorts and All Ira Glass Act 4-- "Jorts and All." So our show today is "Greetings, People of Earth." And I think so many of us, at one point in our lives or another, especially when we're young, feel like we're the alien.
第四幕：Jorts and All Ira Glass 第四幕——“Jorts and All”。所以我们今天的节目是“问候，地球人”。我认为我们很多人，在生命中的某个时刻，尤其是在我们年轻的时候，都会感觉自己是外星人。
Trying to understand and fit in with the humans of this planet.
试图理解并适应这个星球上的人类。
Having experiences that feel very much like "Greetings, People of Earth." Diane Wu spent some time recently with a person who feels that way.
体验感觉非常像“问候，地球人”。吴黛安最近和一个有这种感觉的人待了一段时间。
The person is a teenager, Gwyn.
这个人是一个青少年，格温。
She's 16.
她16岁了。
And because she's 16, so many things in her life right now feel like a first-contact experience.
因为她已经 16 岁了，所以她现在生活中的很多事情都感觉像是第一次接触。
I remember one time this year, I was just like, new stuff is happening every single day.
我记得今年有一次，我就想，每天都有新的事情发生。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
Like, I dyed my eyebrows pink in November, like none of my hair, just that.
就像，我在十一月把眉毛染成粉红色，就像我的头发一样，只是这样。
I was like, I have never done that before.
我当时想，我以前从未这样做过。
That's crazy.
太疯狂了。
And like, I remember getting in the car for the first time when I had my real license and just being like, this is insane.
就像，我记得当我拿到真正的驾照时第一次上车，我就想，这太疯狂了。
Like, I can go anywhere, do anything.
就像，我可以去任何地方，做任何事情。
This is like pure freedom.
这就像纯粹的自由。
No!
不！
[LAUGHS] I feel like it's just-- OK.
[笑]我觉得这只是——好吧。
The first place I drove was to McDonald's.
我开车的第一个地方是麦当劳。
But I don't think--
但我不认为——
Is that embarrassing to you?
这让你感到尴尬吗？
Gwyn It's so embarrassing--
格温 太尴尬了——
Why?
为什么？
Gwyn Because that's like so uncool.
格温 因为那太不酷了。
And that's like, so, like, stereotypical, you know?
这就像，所以，就像，刻板印象，你知道吗？
Like, I would love my first place to be like, oh, no, I went to go, like, salamander watching or I went to go birdwatching or like-- I mean--
就像，我希望我的第一个地方就像，哦，不，我去，比如，看蝾螈，或者我去观鸟，或者像——我的意思是——
Gwyn, if you can't tell, is very into nature and also can't stand anything that might even have a twinge of cringiness, like McDonald's.
格温（Gwyn），如果你看不出来的话，她非常喜欢大自然，也无法忍受任何可能让人感到尴尬的东西，比如麦当劳。
It's like-- it's kind of cringey.
这就像——有点尴尬。
Also, "cringey" is a cringey word, just so you know.
另外，“cringey”是一个令人尴尬的词，只是让你知道。
Um.
嗯。
Why?
为什么？
Gwyn I guess, it's like, sometimes words get really popular, but once they get to a certain point of too popular, they fall back down to almost embarrassing to say.
格温，我想，有时候一些词语真的很受欢迎，但一旦它们达到了太受欢迎的某个程度，它们就会回落到几乎令人尴尬的程度。
She lives in Ellensburg, Washington, a small town in the middle of the state, and goes to school with a lot of ranchers' kids and professors' kids.
她住在华盛顿州中部的一个小镇埃伦斯堡，和很多牧场主的孩子和教授的孩子一起上学。
Gwyn's a sophomore and doesn't belong to any particular clique.
格温是一名大二学生，不属于任何特定的派系。
She told me if the school was a biological cell, she'd be part of the cytoplasm, the shapeless goo that everything else swims in.
她告诉我，如果学校是一个生物细胞，那么她就是细胞质的一部分，细胞质是其他一切生物都在其中游泳的无形粘稠物。
But a year or so ago, she started noticing the skateboarders, this group of six or seven boys.
但大约一年前，她开始注意到滑板运动员，这群六七个男孩。
She'd see them in the hallways wearing jorts, baggy jean shorts, looking way edgier than everyone else.
她会在走廊里看到他们穿着短裤、宽松的牛仔短裤，看起来比其他人都要前卫。
Her friends showed her videos that the skateboarders posted on Instagram of their tricks, which really captivated her.
她的朋友们向她展示了滑板运动员在 Instagram 上发布的滑板技巧视频，这让她着迷。
I guess it's like, a lot of people, when you live in like a smaller town, a lot of people do a lot of boring things, I feel like.
我想，当你住在一个小城镇时，很多人都会做很多无聊的事情，我觉得。
So a lot of kids, they just like go do Rite Aid.
所以很多孩子，他们喜欢去做 Rite Aid。
They get like-- They buy stuff.
他们就像——他们买东西。
Like, they just buy stuff, drive around, and talk.
就像，他们只是买东西，开车到处走走，然后聊天。
And, like, that's all the activities they do.
就像，这就是他们所做的所有活动。
And I just like-- I had this idea that all the skaters are just always doing like such cool things.
我只是喜欢——我有一个想法，所有的滑冰运动员总是在做很酷的事情。
Like, after school, they go to skate park.
比如，放学后，他们去滑板公园。
They're skating.
他们在滑冰。
They're like skating down roofs.
他们就像从屋顶上滑下来一样。
They're like, you know--
他们就像，你知道——
Down roofs?
下屋顶？
Gwyn Yeah, and, like, you know, going, like, around town, you know like, climbing on buildings, like, going outside a lot.
格温 是的，就像，你知道，在城里走来走去，你知道，比如，爬上建筑物，就像，经常到外面去。
Then last year, Gwyn met someone who knew how to skate, Lauren-- basically the only girl skater at their school-- and asked Lauren to teach her how to do it, too.
去年，格温遇到了一个会滑冰的人劳伦——基本上是他们学校唯一的女滑冰运动员——并请劳伦也教她如何滑冰。
Gwyn got her own board back in November.
格温 (Gwyn) 于 11 月拿回了自己的董事会。
This spring, she quit the tennis team to practice skateboarding instead.
今年春天，她退出网球队，转而练习滑板。
Every day she goes and does the two tricks she knows, ollies and shove-its, over and over in the church parking lot across the street from her house where no one can see here.
每天，她都会在她家对面的教堂停车场一遍又一遍地表演她知道的两种技巧：奥利和推球，那里没人能看到。
The patch that's smooth enough to skate on is tiny, about the size of two parked cars.
这块足够光滑、可以滑冰的地方很小，大约有两辆停放的汽车那么大。
There's a real skate park downtown, and Gwyn's been there with Lauren and other friends.
市中心有一个真正的滑板公园，格温和劳伦以及其他朋友去过那里。
But she's never been brave enough to go alone.
但她从来没有勇气一个人去。
That's what she wants to do today, to get over this fear so she can go by herself over the summer.
这就是她今天想做的，克服这种恐惧，这样她就可以独自度过这个夏天。
Gwyn is still an alien to this new, unfamiliar world.
对于这个陌生的新世界来说，格温仍然是个陌生人。
She does not yet speak the language of the skaters or fully know their customs, but she wants to.
她还不会说滑冰者的语言，也不会完全了解他们的习俗，但她想这么做。
I really would like to be, like, part of this culture of skating and, like, know this group of people at my school who skates.
我真的很想成为这种滑冰文化的一部分，并且了解我学校的这群滑冰的人。
But for me, I also don't want to, like, stick out too much in the way of, like, being the worst skater there or, like, being the noob or dressing too much like I'm trying to be a skater, but, like, dressing not like a skater.
但对我来说，我也不想太过突出，比如，成为那里最差的滑手，或者，像菜鸟一样，或者穿得太像我想成为一名滑手，但是，就像，穿得不像滑手。
So it's like that push and pull of, like, trying to find the balance.
所以这就像推拉一样，试图找到平衡。
Also, Gwyn really wants to try and make friends with the skater guys.
此外，格温真的很想尝试与滑冰运动员交朋友。
There's one in particular she feels like she might have an in with.
她觉得她可能特别喜欢其中一个人。
His name is Horus.
他的名字叫荷鲁斯。
He's a junior.
他是一名小学生。
A couple of weeks ago, Horus had apparently noticed Gwyn at school and sent a message to her friend Lauren.
几周前，荷鲁斯显然在学校注意到了格温，并向她的朋友劳伦发送了一条消息。
He asked, "Who's your friend that was wearing the jorts today?" Lauren wrote back, "Gwyn, why?" And Horus responded, "No reason."
他问道：“今天穿短裤的你朋友是谁？”劳伦回信说：“格温，为什么？”荷鲁斯回答说：“没有理由。”
What does that even mean?
这到底意味着什么？
I was so confused.
我很困惑。
I was like, do they just really like jorts or, like, what?
我当时想，他们真的喜欢短裤还是什么？
Whatever it meant, this was mind blowing.
不管这意味着什么，这都令人兴奋。
A skater noticed her.
一名滑冰运动员注意到了她。
So if Horus is at the park today, Gwyn also wants to try and talk to him.
因此，如果荷鲁斯今天在公园，格温也想尝试与他交谈。
But since she's the outsider here, this raises another fear.
但由于她是这里的局外人，这引发了另一种恐惧。
No awkwardness.
没有任何尴尬。
I hate awkwardness.
我讨厌尴尬。
It's like my least favorite feeling in the world.
这就像世界上我最不喜欢的感觉。
Like, embarrassment, awkwardness, and shame, that's my least favorite.
比如，尴尬、尴尬和羞耻，这是我最不喜欢的。
I'd way rather feel angry or sad than those.
我宁愿感到愤怒或悲伤，也不愿感到这些。
For some reason, I just feel so afraid of awkward social interactions.
出于某种原因，我只是觉得很害怕尴尬的社交互动。
So yeah, thinking about even having one conversation with, like, someone at the skate park makes me want to die inside.
所以，是的，一想到在滑板公园与某个人进行一次交谈，我就会想死在里面。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
OK.
好的。
We're approaching the den of beasts.
我们正在接近野兽的巢穴。
It's, like, behind the bushes.
它就像在灌木丛后面。
I feel like my throat feels a little bit tight.
我感觉喉咙有点发紧。
But I'm honestly not seeing very many people.
但说实话，我见到的人并不多。
So we're approaching and I can see the skate park.
我们快到了，我可以看到滑板公园了。
But I'm not seeing anyone yet.
但我还没有见到任何人。
It's a Saturday in June, hot.
这是六月的一个星期六，天气炎热。
Gwyn's in jorts, a t-shirt with a green heron on it, and sneakers full of holes from skateboarding.
格温穿着短裤和印有绿色苍鹭的 T 恤，脚上踩着满是滑板破洞的运动鞋。
So as not to blow up her spot by being a weird adult at the park with her, I pinned a small mic on her t-shirt and we'll watch and listen from the car.
为了不和她一起在公园里成为一个奇怪的成年人，从而破坏她的位置，我在她的 T 恤上别了一个小麦克风，我们将在车上观看和聆听。
I see one person I've never seen there before.
我在那里看到了一个我以前从未见过的人。
But I just saw them do a trick that was pretty impressive.
但我刚刚看到他们做了一个令人印象深刻的把戏。
So I'm a little fearful.
所以我有点害怕。
And then I see one other person who is a really good skateboarder.
然后我看到另外一个人，他是一位非常优秀的滑板手。
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
No, he's so good.
不，他太好了。
And he's gonna-- He can do tre flips, which are really impressive.
他会——他可以做三翻转，这真的令人印象深刻。
And like, I'm just gonna have to be in the corner alone, but let's go try it out.
就像，我只能独自待在角落里，但我们去尝试一下吧。
Good luck.
祝你好运。
Horus isn't here yet.
荷鲁斯还没来。
So Gwyn gets to part one of her mission-- the skating.
格温开始执行她的任务之一——滑冰。
Gwyn walks up to the edge of the park, and then without making eye contact with anyone, gets on her board and beelines for the far side, putting as much distance between herself and the three other skaters as possible.
格温走到公园边缘，然后没有与任何人进行目光接触，就登上了滑板，径直走向另一边，与其他三名滑冰者之间保持尽可能远的距离。
She does a few of her ollies and shove-its, then ducks behind the half pipe to whisper into the microphone.
她做了一些奥利和推球，然后躲到半管后面对着麦克风低声说。
I just saw one of them look at me.
我刚刚看到其中一个人看着我。
That was awkward.
那很尴尬。
I'm hiding.
我躲起来了
I'm making it more awkward.
我让事情变得更尴尬了。
The three skaters, as far as I can tell, have barely registered Gwyn's presence.
据我所知，这三个滑冰者几乎没有注意到格温的存在。
But that's not what it feels like inside her head.
但她脑子里的感觉却并非如此。
[SKATEBOARD CLACKING] Gwyn I just fell.
[滑板咔哒声] Gwyn 我刚刚摔倒了。
That was embarrassing.
那就很尴尬了。
Nobody else seems to notice.
其他人似乎没有注意到。
Gwyn practices some more tricks, nothing too big.
格温又练习了一些技巧，没什么太大的。
And as soon as the other skaters leave 12 minutes later, she hurries back to the car to check in.
12分钟后其他选手离开后，她就赶紧回到车上报到。
I was definitely-- It was way not as bad as I thought it would be.
我绝对——这并没有我想象的那么糟糕。
It was way less bad than I thought.
情况没有我想象的那么糟糕。
Being there by yourself?
自己一个人在那里吗？
Gwyn Yeah, I feel like I could do this again.
Gwyn 是的，我觉得我可以再做一次。
And I think more people will come.
我认为会有更多的人来。
Let's see if there's an update.
我们看看有没有更新。
I think--
我认为——
Solo skateboarding-- done.
单人滑板——完成。
Gwyn moves on very quickly.
格温的动作很快。
Because the next part of the mission, talking to Horus, is looming.
因为任务的下一部分，即与荷鲁斯交谈，即将到来。
Gwyn brings in reinforcements for this step.
格温为这一步带来了增援。
She texts a couple of friends.
她给几个朋友发短信。
And they all show up at the park.
他们都出现在公园里。
It is so hot outside.
外面太热了。
Do I look really sweaty?
我看起来真的很出汗吗？
Lauren No, not at all
劳伦 不，一点也不
Like a 2, yeah.
就像2一样，是的。
Gwyn Thank you.
格温 谢谢你。
You guys all look like 1, too.
你们看起来也都像1。
One of Gwyn's friends who shows up, Cooper, is friends with Horus, not from skating.
出现的格温的朋友之一库珀是荷鲁斯的朋友，而不是滑冰的朋友。
Cooper is a beginner like Gwyn.
库珀和格温一样是个初学者。
He has this random update on Horus.
他有关于荷鲁斯的随机更新。
We were just snapping, and he was like-- also, he was in a helicopter yesterday.
我们只是在拍照，他就像——而且，他昨天还在直升机上。
Cooper pulls up the video and everyone crowds around his phone.
库珀调出视频，每个人都围在他的手机周围。
It's a Snapchat of two boys strapped into a helicopter flying over mountains.
这是两个男孩绑在直升机上飞越群山的 Snapchat。
Whoa, wait, who is that?
哇，等等，那是谁？
Cooper It's Horus and Leo.
库珀 这是荷鲁斯和利奥。
Wait, this is crazy.
等等，这太疯狂了。
You see, this is what I was saying about, like, I think about the skaters always doing, like, these crazy, cool activities all the time.
你看，这就是我所说的，就像，我想到滑冰者总是在做，就像，这些疯狂的、很酷的活动。
Perfect example right here.
完美的例子就在这里。
[LAUGHTER] Like, even if it's not skating, like, they're always going to Seattle and stuff like that.
[笑声]就像，即使不是滑冰，他们总是会去西雅图之类的地方。
That is insane.
那太疯狂了。
OK, now we have-- OK, it's good, we have a talking point.
好的，现在我们--好的，很好，我们有一个谈话要点。
Also--
还有——
You could be like, I heard you fly a helicopter.
你可能会说，我听说你开直升机。
Yeah, but that's the thing.
是的，但就是这样。
Diane Wu A talking point, but still no Horus.
吴黛安（Diane Wu）有一个话题，但仍然没有荷鲁斯。
Almost two hours pass.
快两个小时过去了。
Then, a big red truck pulls up right in front of me and someone gets out on the other side.
然后，一辆红色大卡车停在我面前，有人从另一边下了车。
I can't see Gwyn anymore or anyone else.
我再也见不到格温或其他人了。
But I figure out pretty quickly who it is because here is the next thing Gwyn says.
但我很快就猜出了他是谁，因为这是格温接下来说的话。
Wait, I heard you went in a helicopter yesterday.
等等，我听说你昨天乘直升机去了。
What happ-- wait, why?
发生什么事了——等等，为什么？
What-- Tell us the story.
什么——告诉我们这个故事。
Here it is, the sound of a pretty not-awkward conversation between Gwyn and her skater idol.
这是格温和她的滑冰偶像之间相当不尴尬的对话的声音。
Um.
嗯。
It was for Leo's, uh, birthday, uh, present.
这是给 Leo 的，呃，生日，呃，礼物。
His grandpa gave him a late birthday present.
他的爷爷给了他一份迟到的生日礼物。
To go in a helicopter?
坐直升机去吗？
Cooper Oh, these were at Goodwill?
库珀 哦，这些是在善意吗？
They're like brand new.
它们就像全新的一样。
Horus I was gonna buy the Vans, but they're 40 bucks.
Horus 我本来想买 Vans，但要 40 美元。
Gwyn asks Horus in quick succession about the helicopter, his shoes, Pokemon cards-- which this group of teenagers is surprisingly really into.
格温快速地连续向荷鲁斯询问直升机、他的鞋子、口袋妖怪卡牌的情况——这群青少年对这些都非常感兴趣。
Everything is going great.
一切都很顺利。
Gwyn, who'd been so scared of awkwardness, is now so comfortable that she signals for me to come over from the car.
格温一直很害怕尴尬，现在却很舒服，她示意我下车过来。
Nice to meet you.
很高兴见到你。
Horus is compact, tidy, and kind of looks like he could be in a boy band.
荷鲁斯身材紧凑、整洁，看起来有点像男孩乐队的成员。
His hair is bleached light brown.
他的头发被漂白成浅棕色。
We sit on the curb at the side of the skate park, Gwyn and her friends and Horus and me.
我们坐在滑板公园一侧的路边，格温和她的朋友们以及荷鲁斯和我。
Gwyn boldly plugs ahead, asking Horus some kind of interview-sounding questions, confirming his status as a bona fide cool skater.
格温大胆地插上话，向荷鲁斯提出了一些听起来像是面试的问题，证实了他作为一个真正的酷滑手的地位。
Um, OK, what's the time-- like, when do you feel-- Like, when you come to a skate park-- I already feel like I know the answer to this-- but do you feel stressed out or, like, worried what people are going to think?
嗯，好吧，现在是什么时候——比如，你什么时候感觉——比如，当你来到滑板公园时——我已经觉得我知道这个问题的答案了——但是你是否感到压力很大，或者担心人们会怎么想？
I used to be.
我曾经是。
But I'm kind of just here to do my thing.
但我只是来这里做我的事情。
Is there anyone that is ever here that makes you nervous to be here?
是否有人曾经在这里让你感到紧张？
I mean, there used to be like the really good people, but now I'm just--
我的意思是，曾经有一些非常好的人，但现在我只是——
Yeah, you're like one of the top dogs at the skate park.
是的，你就像滑板公园里的佼佼者之一。
Yeah, top dogs.
是的，顶级狗。
Gwyn What-- if the skate park is not what's stressing you out, then what does?
Gwyn 什么——如果滑板公园不是让你感到压力的原因，那么什么才是呢？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
School, I guess, kind of because-- I don't know.
我想，学校，有点因为——我不知道。
Um, I don't talk that much in classes.
嗯，我在课堂上话不多。
So it's like, I'm kind of scared.
所以就像是，我有点害怕。
And my grades are like really bad.
而且我的成绩真的很差。
And I'm never really paying attention in class.
我在课堂上从来没有真正集中注意力。
I'm always scared they're gonna choose me and then I'm, like, not gonna know what I'm going to say.
我总是害怕他们会选择我，然后我就不知道我要说什么了。
So do you think people would-- you think people would judge you because you have bad grades and, I guess, assume that you're not smart?
那么你认为人们会——你认为人们会因为你成绩不好而评判你，而且我想，会认为你不聪明？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Diane Wu Cooper jumps in to tell Horus he should see how good Gwyn's ollie has gotten.
黛安·吴·库珀 (Diane Wu Cooper) 介入告诉荷鲁斯，他应该看看格温 (Gwyn) 的奥利 (ollie) 有多好。
The three of them grab their boards and head back into the skate park.
三人抓起滑板，返回滑板公园。
And Horus gives Gwyn pointers on how to do a shove-it while moving.
荷鲁斯向格温提供了如何在移动时进行推力的指导。
Yeah, I've been practicing.
是的，我一直在练习。
[SKATEBOARD CLACKS]
[滑板咔哒声]
Let's try it.
我们来试试吧。
Diane Wu So the alien arrives and tries desperately to pretend she doesn't have three eyes and a giant head and long, bony fingers.
吴黛安（Diane Wu）于是，外星人到来了，她拼命地假装自己没有三只眼睛、一个巨大的头和又长又瘦的手指。
And it works.
它有效。
The humans barely notice.
人类几乎没有注意到。
"You want to be one of us," they say.
“你想成为我们中的一员，”他们说。
"Put your foot a little higher on the board."
“把你的脚放在板上高一点。”
Ira Glass Diane Wu is one of the producers of our show.
Ira Glass Diane Wu 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Our program was produced today by Chris Benderev with Alaa Mostafa.
今天我们的节目由 Chris Benderev 和 Alaa Mostafa 制作。
The people who put together today's show include-- Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Phia Bennin, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Bethel Habte, Valerie Kipnis, Miki Meek, Stowe Nelson, Sara Parrish, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Ike Sriskandarajah, Lilly Sullivan, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney and Julie Whitaker.
今天节目的制作人包括：Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Phia Bennin、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Bethel Habte、Valerie Kipnis、Miki Meek、Stowe Nelson、Sara Parrish、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Ike Sriskandarajah、Lilly Sullivan、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt蒂尔尼和朱莉·惠特克。
Managing editor-- Sarah Abdurrahman.
总编辑——莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special Thanks today to Tomer Ullman, Michael Frank, Melanie Mitchell, Jeremy Howard, Jason Stern, and Deborah Giles.
今天特别感谢托默·厄尔曼、迈克尔·弗兰克、梅兰妮·米切尔、杰里米·霍华德、杰森·斯特恩和黛博拉·贾尔斯。
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站——thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know his new passion?
你知道他的新爱好吗？
Bartering.
物物交换。
Bartering.
物物交换。
Yes, he doesn't use money, whenever that's possible.
是的，只要有可能，他就不花钱。
I bought him lunch this week.
这周我给他买了午餐。
Instead of giving me a cash, he told me this about how he'd pay me back.
他没有给我现金，而是告诉我他将如何偿还我。
I have a book, nine eggs, a laptop, a bottle and a nail.
我有一本书、九个鸡蛋、一台笔记本电脑、一个瓶子和一个钉子。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week, hopefully, with my actual voice and more stories of This American Life.
希望下周回来，带着我真实的声音和更多关于《美国生活》的故事。
["HERE COME THE MARTIAN MARTIANS" BY JONATHAN RICHMAN & THE MODERN LOVERS]
[乔纳森·里奇曼和现代恋人的《火星人来了》]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。