801: Must Be Rats on the Brain - This American Life

801：一定是脑子里的老鼠

801 · This American Life · 原文

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #801 | December 26, 2025 801: Must Be Rats on the Brain Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录分享此美国生活生活伙伴如何收听剧集推荐关于概述员工公告奖学金工作音乐在路上制作电台常见问题解答提交商品联系我们我们的其他节目商品关注我们生活伙伴订阅我们的时事通讯整集切换音频和文字记录同步文字记录 | 内容第 801 集 | 2025 年 12 月 26 日 801：一定是脑子里的老鼠注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

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Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

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Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

序言：序言来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。

Good morning.

早上好。

And it's a-- Crowd Good morning.

这是—— 人群早上好。

--great morning for New Yorkers and a great morning to be in New York City.

——对于纽约人来说是一个美好的早晨，对于纽约市来说也是一个美好的早晨。

We're at a press conference in a park in Harlem for New York's Mayor Adams in April.

四月份，我们正在哈莱姆区的一个公园里参加纽约市长亚当斯的新闻发布会。

There are two undisputed truths about the Adams administration.

关于亚当斯政府有两个无可争议的事实。

Mayor Eric Adams loves his mother.

市长埃里克·亚当斯爱他的母亲。

Mayor Eric Adams hates rats.

市长埃里克·亚当斯讨厌老鼠。

This event was to introduce New Yorkers to their brand new rat czar.

这次活动的目的是向纽约人介绍他们全新的老鼠沙皇。

This is a position the mayor created, and his job listing called for candidates who were, quote, "highly motivated and somewhat bloodthirsty with a swashbuckling attitude, crafty humor, and general aura of badassery."

这是市长创建的一个职位，他的职位清单要求候选人“积极主动，有些嗜血，态度虚张声势，幽默狡猾，总体上有一种坏脾气的气质”。

New York's mayor is not popular.

纽约市长并不受欢迎。

He's got huge disapproval ratings on crime and homelessness.

他对犯罪和无家可归问题的评价很高。

Fewer than half of all New Yorkers like the way he's doing his job.

不到一半的纽约人喜欢他的工作方式。

So when the mayor talks rats, it's with the joy of a dad whose kids don't want any of the dinner he's cooked them, who, finally, at dessert, gets to hand them massive hot fudge sundaes.

因此，当市长谈论老鼠时，他会带着父亲的喜悦，他的孩子们不想要他为他们做的任何晚餐，最后，他在甜点时递给他们大量的热软糖圣代。

He's made it a big issue.

他把这当成了一个大问题。

And I hear it all the time.

我一直听到这样的说法。

I'm on the trains.

我在火车上。

I walk in the streets.

我走在街上。

People stop me and say, we're with you, man.

人们阻止我说，我们和你在一起，伙计。

We hate those damn rats.

我们讨厌那些该死的老鼠。

And remember, Julia?

还记得吗，朱莉娅？

Remember when I came out that rat device?

还记得我拿出那个老鼠装置的时候吗？

I had a rat device.

我有一个老鼠装置。

We caught 96 rats around Brooklyn Borough Hall, 96 rats.

我们在布鲁克林市政厅周围抓到了 96 只老鼠，96 只。

And there were people that were yelling, oh, you murderer, you murderer.

有人大喊，哦，你是凶手，你是凶手。

[LAUGHS]

[笑]

This is the kind of cutthroat swagger in a lot of the remarks this day.

今天的许多言论都是这种残酷的狂妄。

Next to the podium is a table with all kinds of gear for shooting, poisoning, and trapping rats.

讲台旁边有一张桌子，上面摆着各种射击、投毒、诱捕老鼠的用具。

Soon, the new rat czar, Kathy Corradi, takes the stage.

很快，新任老鼠沙皇凯西·科拉迪上台。

And if zingers could kill rodents, well, New York's in good hands.

如果 Zingers 可以杀死啮齿动物，那么纽约就在良好的管理之下。

You'll be seeing a lot of me-- and a lot less rats.

你会看到更多的我——而更少的老鼠。

[LAUGHS] There's a new sheriff in town.

[笑]镇上来了一位新警长。

And with your help, we'll send those rats packing.

在你的帮助下，我们会把那些老鼠赶走。

[INAUDIBLE] Ira Glass Fully keeping with the giddy mood of the day, the rat czar's parents are there, kvelling for reporters and telling the story of how, at 10, their daughter mobilized her entire neighborhood to fight rats, and so, so proud they can't stop themselves from talking over each other in a gush of words.

[听不清]艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 老鼠沙皇的父母也在那里，他们对着记者大喊大叫，讲述着他们的女儿在 10 岁时如何动员整个社区与老鼠作斗争的故事，因此，他们如此自豪，无法阻止自己滔滔不绝地互相交谈。

I'll be honest with you, there were so many applicants.

老实说，申请者太多了。

But then when she started to get down--

但当她开始倒下时——

Oh, we knew.

哦，我们知道。

We knew.

我们知道。

Father --I was like--

父亲——我当时就像——

And she's right for the job.

她很适合这份工作。

Father I said to my wife, I go, I think they're gonna hire her.

父亲，我对妻子说，我走了，我想他们会雇用她。

She's right for the job.

她很适合这份工作。

Father She's got this job.

父亲她得到了这份工作。

She's smart.

她很聪明。

She's super smart.

她超级聪明。

She's great with people.

她与人相处很好。

She's gonna do a great job.

她会做得很好。

Mother She's gonna do a great job.

妈妈她会做得很好的。

The mayor has made it very clear his stance on rats.

市长已经非常明确地表明了他对老鼠的立场。

He hates rats.

他讨厌老鼠。

I hate rats.

我讨厌老鼠。

All New Yorkers hate rats.

所有纽约人都讨厌老鼠。

Not true!

不是真的！

Reggie Everybody don't hate rats.

雷吉每个人都不讨厌老鼠。

OK, so we are going to devote our program today to rats and their hold over our cities and our minds.

好的，所以我们今天的节目将专门讨论老鼠及其对我们城市和思想的影响。

And for some equal time-- we thought this was very important-- to co-host today's coverage, we thought we would reach out to the one group that did not get a turn at the mic at the mayor's press conference.

在同样的时间里——我们认为这非常重要——为了共同主持今天的报道，我们认为我们应该接触到在市长新闻发布会上没有得到麦克风发言权的一组人。

Welcome, you guys.

欢迎你们。

So let me push this mic a little closer to you there on the floor.

让我把这个麦克风推得离地板上的你更近一些。

Too far away, hey.

太远了，嘿嘿

Alrighty.

好吧。

1, 2, 1, 2.

1, 2, 1, 2。

All right, you want to introduce yourselves?

好吧，你想自我介绍一下吗？

We are rodents.

我们是啮齿动物。

Yeah, we're the rodent class.

是的，我们是啮齿类动物。

We are rats.

我们是老鼠。

Can I ask you guys, like, what do you make of this press conference and the mayor appointing a rat czar and announcing rats as his mission?

我能问一下你们，你们对这次新闻发布会以及市长任命老鼠沙皇并宣布老鼠为他的使命有何看法？

He's going to kill rats.

他要去杀老鼠。

Look, if I had made the same budget cuts that that guy was pitching, I'd also be trying to throw a little smoke and mirrors in the air.

听着，如果我按照那个人所提出的那样削减预算，我也会试图在空中制造一些烟雾和镜子。

A little confusion.

有点混乱。

Reggie A little confusion, a little bit of--

雷吉有点困惑，有点——

A little confusion.

有点混乱。

Ira Glass So you're saying it's just a distraction?

Ira Glass：所以你是说这只是分散注意力？

Absolutely.

绝对地。

Reggie I mean, look, who's going to--

雷吉，我是说，看看，谁会——

Who's going to fight back?

谁来反击？

Reggie Who's going to fight back against that?

雷吉谁会反击呢？

We're easy.

我们很容易。

We're small.

我们还小。

Reggie But we're resilient.

雷吉但我们很有弹性。

Yeah, we got the numbers.

是的，我们得到了数字。

We got the numbers.

我们得到了数字。

Well, actually, the numbers are interesting.

嗯，实际上，这些数字很有趣。

It's actually a real question.

这实际上是一个真正的问题。

Nobody knows how many rats are in New York City.

没有人知道纽约市有多少只老鼠。

It's 8 million people, but since you guys are like nesting everywhere under the streets and sidewalks, and you're in ancient water pipes and utility pipes and sewers and subway tunnels, the best guess we could find from anybody who's just millions of rats.

有 800 万人，但由于你们就像在街道和人行道下到处筑巢，而且你们在古老的水管、公用设施管道、下水道和地铁隧道中，我们可以从任何一个只有数百万只老鼠的人身上找到最好的猜测。

That's all they can say.

他们只能说这些。

We're growing every day.

我们每天都在成长。

Ira Glass Well, actually, that's true.

艾拉·格拉斯：嗯，事实上，确实如此。

People are seeing a lot more rats in New York.

人们在纽约看到了更多的老鼠。

Health inspectors are seeing twice as many rats as they saw just a few years ago.

卫生检查人员发现的老鼠数量是几年前的两倍。

And that's what you see.

这就是你所看到的。

The future's female.

未来是女性。

The future's rat.

未来的老鼠。

[LAUGHTER] Ira Glass Can I ask you guys, do you see anything in the other side's arguments?

[笑声] Ira Glass 我能问一下你们，你们从对方的论点中看到了什么吗？

Do you see anything in why people find you to be a pest and frightening?

你明白为什么人们觉得你是个害虫和可怕的人吗？

All right, every once and again, a kid gets bit.

好吧，孩子一次又一次地被咬。

OK.

好的。

Well, actually, the last year that we have stats for, 100 New Yorkers got bit by rats.

事实上，据我们统计，去年有 100 名纽约人被老鼠咬过。

Yeah, but how many-- Rachel And you said it's 8 million.

是的，但是有多少—— Rachel 你说是 800 万。

What is that?

那是什么？

That's nothing.

那没什么。

That's nothing.

那没什么。

How many New Yorkers a year get stabbed, you know?

每年有多少纽约人被刺伤，你知道吗？

How many New Yorkers a year get hit by cars?

每年有多少纽约人被车撞？

How many rats control rent prices in New York?

有多少只老鼠控制着纽约的房租价格？

Very few.

很少。

Very few of us are keeping Manhattan unaffordable.

我们中很少有人会让曼哈顿变得难以承受。

And yet, somehow, oh, rats are evil.

然而，不知何故，哦，老鼠是邪恶的。

Yeah, well, let me give you guys the human point of view on this, OK?

是的，好吧，让我给你们提供一下人类的观点，好吗？

In this new battle that's going on in New York between a growing rat population and a mayor calling for your blood, let me tell you about somebody who's on the front lines of where the new wave of rats has shown up.

在纽约正在上演的一场新的战斗中，不断增长的老鼠数量和一位呼吁你献血的市长之间，让我告诉你一个在新一波老鼠出现的前线的人。

Her name is Darneice Foster.

她的名字叫达妮丝·福斯特。

She lives just a couple of blocks from the park where the mayor's press conference was held.

她住的地方距离举行市长新闻发布会的公园只有几个街区。

And she saw the commotion and stopped to watch and talked to my coworker, Valerie Kipnis.

她看到了骚动，停下来观看并与我的同事瓦莱丽·基普尼斯交谈。

Told her that she's lived on 138th Street since the '90s.

告诉她她从 90 年代起就住在 138 街。

And they never used to have a rat problem until the pandemic.

直到大流行之前，他们从来没有遇到过老鼠问题。

Rats outside the building, rats in the basement.

老鼠在大楼外，老鼠在地下室。

This is new.

这是新的。

I guess nobody was-- everybody was looking the other way or doing something else.

我想没有人——每个人都在看别处或做其他事情。

And the rats took over.

然后老鼠就接管了。

I-- it's very frustrating.

我——这非常令人沮丧。

Like, garbage collection day is the absolute worst.

就像，垃圾收集日绝对是最糟糕的。

There's really no safe place because they're running from garbage to garbage to garbage to garbage.

确实没有安全的地方，因为他们从一个垃圾跑到另一个垃圾，再到另一个垃圾。

Even in the middle of the street, it's not safe because they dart.

即使在街道中央，也不安全，因为它们会飞奔。

So you can barely walk, and you just have to hope, pray to God that they're not there.

所以你几乎无法行走，你只能希望，向上帝祈祷他们不在那里。

Like, I shake my keys.

就像，我摇动我的钥匙。

I make as much noise.

我也发出同样多的噪音。

[LAUGHS]

[笑]

So Valerie and I headed to her block on garbage pickup day and met up with Darneice before her kids left for school, which is a big operation in her house.

因此，瓦莱丽和我在垃圾收集日前往她的街区，并在她的孩子们去上学之前与达内斯会面，这是她家的一项大型活动。

Each of her four kids goes to a different school in a different part of the city.

她的四个孩子各自就读于城市不同地区的不同学校。

She lives on a really pretty block in Harlem that's all townhouses and trees.

她住在哈莱姆区一个非常漂亮的街区，那里都是联排别墅和树木。

It was a perfect spring morning.

这是一个完美的春天早晨。

And as we stood there on the sidewalk, yes, even with the sun shining, there in plain day--

当我们站在人行道上时，是的，即使在阳光明媚的日子里——

[CLATTER] Darneice Foster Oh, God!

[CLATTER] Darneice Foster 噢，上帝！

Aw, Jesus Christ.

噢，耶稣基督。

--a rat.

——一只老鼠。

Darneice Foster Yeah, no, I just saw the rat.

Darneice Foster 是的，不，我刚刚看到了那只老鼠。

I don't know where it came from, but it crawled across the top of the green can.

我不知道它从哪里来，但它爬过绿色罐头的顶部。

I don't know where it went because I kind of froze.

我不知道它去了哪里，因为我有点僵住了。

I walk over to a big plastic trash bin and look inside.

我走到一个大塑料垃圾桶前，看看里面。

[EXCLAIMING] There was a rat chewing through a bag.

[惊呼]有一只老鼠在咀嚼一个袋子。

That sound was the rat.

那声音是老鼠的声音。

Darneice says that it's not just a general kind of post-pandemic surge that's led to all the rats on her particular block.

达内斯说，导致她所在街区所有老鼠出现的不仅仅是流行病后的普遍激增。

The neighborhood has been gentrifying.

该社区一直在高档化。

One house a couple of doors down sold for $2 and 1/2 million.

相距几扇门的一栋房子以 2 又 1/2 百万美元的价格售出。

Others aren't far behind.

其他人也不甘落后。

Darneice rents in one of the only apartment buildings on the block.

达内斯租的是该街区仅有的一栋公寓楼。

And she says her landlord is trying to drive everybody out of her building to raise the rents.

她说她的房东正试图将所有人赶出她的大楼以提高租金。

Hot water and heat have gone out for weeks at a time.

热水和暖气已经断掉好几个星期了。

They don't fix anything.

他们不解决任何问题。

They're harassing tenants.

他们骚扰租客。

They have managed to harass and get half the building.

他们成功地骚扰并占领了一半的建筑。

So half of the tenants are gone.

所以一半的租户都走了。

And rats are helping their cause because they just want to clear out my building anyway, so.

老鼠正在帮助他们的事业，因为无论如何他们只是想清理我的大楼，所以。

In New York City, rats are just a pawn in the much bigger clash that is New York real estate.

在纽约市，老鼠只是更大的纽约房地产冲突中的一个棋子。

We did reach out to the landlord-- his name is Hamad Ali-- to ask him if he's trying to drive out Darneice and the other last tenants in the building and letting rats to fester as part of that.

我们确实联系了房东——他的名字叫哈马德·阿里——询问他是否试图赶走达内斯和大楼里最后的其他房客，并让老鼠溃烂。

But he didn't return our calls or texts or our emails.

但他没有回复我们的电话、短信或电子邮件。

I'm really stubborn.

我真的很固执。

I do not want my landlord to win.

我不想让我的房东赢。

Oh, my God!

我的天啊！

Sorry.

对不起。

Sorry.

对不起。

I'm so sorry.

我很抱歉。

That was humongous.

那真是太巨大了。

When rats scamper by, they seem to completely unnerve Darneice.

当老鼠跑过时，它们似乎让达内斯完全感到不安。

And she urges me and her sons to move away from a stairwell where she's seen rats.

她敦促我和她的儿子们离开她看到老鼠的楼梯间。

There are certain spots where she doesn't like to stand.

有些地方她不喜欢站立。

But her kids are totally unruffled.

但她的孩子却完全镇定自若。

Her sons, Micah and Amir, they're 9 and 12, both perfectly happy to be late for school to talk rats.

她的两个儿子，迈卡和阿米尔，分别是 9 岁和 12 岁，两个人都很高兴上学迟到，因为他们和老鼠说话。

Each new rat we see, they're like, yeah, sure.

我们看到的每只新老鼠都会说，是的，当然。

Whatever.

任何。

The boys spot this one up the block and show Valerie.

男孩们在街区发现了这个并向瓦莱丽展示。

Wait, how can you tell?

等等，你怎么知道？

Micah Because it's a body.

弥迦因为它是一个身体。

Their eyes are still open, and its body is still kind-- it kind of looks like it's fake playing dead.

它们的眼睛还睁着，它的身体也依然善良——看起来有点像假装死。

And because ants haven't swarmed that place yet.

因为蚂蚁还没有蜂拥而至那个地方。

Do you feel like the rats have gotten into your head?

你有没有感觉老鼠已经钻进你的脑子里了？

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.

哦，是的，不，绝对。

I am thinking about them a lot.

我想了很多。

I mean, it's just so strange because they're so small, and yet they can loom so large.

我的意思是，这很奇怪，因为它们是如此之小，但它们却可以显得如此之大。

They're huge.

它们很大。

These are not small rats.

这些可不是小老鼠。

[LAUGHS] These are big, fat, jolly rats.

[笑]这些是又大又胖又快乐的老鼠。

They are eating good here.

他们在这里吃得很好。

Like, I'm amazed at how agile they are.

就像，我对他们的敏捷程度感到惊讶。

I told Darneice how a scientist I talked to said that the big problem with rats these days is not that they spread disease.

我告诉达内斯，一位与我交谈过的科学家说，如今老鼠的大问题不是它们传播疾病。

She said it's rare in North America for anybody to report catching a disease from a rat.

她说，在北美很少有人报告从老鼠身上感染疾病。

And it's much more common for rats to catch our diseases from us, going through our stuff.

老鼠通过我们的东西从我们身上传染疾病的情况更为常见。

Like, New York rats got COVID from us.

就像，纽约老鼠从我们这里感染了新冠病毒。

And the scientist told me that the bigger problem with rats is the very thing that Darneice is experiencing-- the stress, feeling of everything being out of control when rats are there.

科学家告诉我，老鼠的更大问题正是达内斯正在经历的事情——压力，当老鼠在那里时一切都失去控制的感觉。

It just freaks people out.

它只会让人们感到害怕。

Like, there's just something about having them around that just gets to us psychologically.

就像，有他们在身边就会给我们带来心理上的影响。

It means that you've done something terribly wrong in your life, and you should correct it if you're encountering rats like this.

这意味着你在生活中做了一些非常错误的事情，如果你遇到这样的老鼠，你应该改正它。

It's like a problem sign.

这就像一个有问题的迹象。

It's like stop, change, do something different.

这就像停下来，改变，做一些不同的事情。

Well, today, on our program, rats.

好吧，今天，在我们的节目中，老鼠们。

When rats show up, it is all about the rats.

当老鼠出现时，一切都是关于老鼠的。

You can't think of anything else.

你无法想到其他任何事情。

If you have had a run-in with a rat, you pretty much remember it the rest of your life.

如果你与老鼠发生过冲突，你的余生都会记得那件事。

Today, we let ourselves get transfixed.

今天，我们让自己惊呆了。

Why do they get to us so much?

为什么他们对我们如此感兴趣？

Like I said earlier, my co-hosts for the hour today are Reggie and Rachel, New York City rats.

正如我之前所说，今天这一小时的共同主持人是纽约市的老鼠雷吉和瑞秋。

You guys have anything you want to say about Darneice's situation?

对于Darneice的情况，你们有什么想说的吗？

You think she's wrong to be scared?

你认为她害怕是错误的吗？

Yeah, yeah, yes, it's scary.

是啊是啊，好可怕啊

But you know what?

但你知道吗？

I think the fact that we're being blamed for being a bunch of Beyonces is outrageous, right?

我认为我们被指责为一群碧昂斯，这一事实令人无法容忍，对吧？

When we step in the room, all eyes on us.

当我们走进房间时，所有的目光都集中在我们身上。

Rats, you may think you know them.

老鼠，你可能认为你了解它们。

You may think you have nothing to learn.

你可能认为你没有什么可学的。

We have stories today I think will open your eyes.

今天我们有一些故事，我想会让你大开眼界。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

OK, so we're going to start today's show with the story that you guys commissioned as our co-hosts today.

好的，我们将以你们今天共同主持的故事开始今天的节目。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

Rachel Yep, because there's the lie, and there's the rat truth.

雷切尔是的，因为有谎言，也有真相。

That's why we're here, to tell our story.

这就是我们来这里讲述我们的故事的原因。

Which is why we got this next story for you.

这就是为什么我们为您准备了下一个故事。

Act 1, Fifty First Rats.

第一幕，五十只老鼠。

So this might be hard for some of you close-minded folks to believe, but there are a lot of people out here who love rats.

所以这对于一些心胸狭窄的人来说可能很难相信，但这里有很多人喜欢老鼠。

Love us to death.

爱我们至死不渝。

Rachel Who see us for who we really are.

雷切尔，她看到了我们真正的样子。

Oh, my god.

我的天啊。

Copy that.

复制那个。

For more on this, we go to our very own Elna Baker.

有关这方面的更多信息，请访问我们自己的埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker)。

Hi.

你好。

OK, so I want to start from the beginning.

好的，所以我想从头开始。

You and I, we met at a party, right?

你和我，我们是在一次聚会上认识的，对吧？

Yep.

是的。

Elna Baker You came up to me, and you basically did this thing where you were like, uh, hey, you're a woman.

埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）：你来找我，你基本上做了这件事，你就像，呃，嘿，你是一个女人。

Can I get your opinion on something?

我可以听听你对某事的看法吗？

And then you explained your predicament.

然后你解释了你的困境。

Will you explain for us now what's your current big dilemma?

您现在能为我们解释一下您目前面临的最大困境是什么吗？

Yes, I have several pet rats.

是的，我有几只宠物鼠。

And I also am single and used to be very active dating in the dating scene.

而且我也是单身，曾经在约会场景中非常活跃。

And I have to either get rid of my rats, so that I can start dating again, or I guess, become a weird lonely rat person for the rest of my life?

我必须要么摆脱我的老鼠，这样我才能重新开始约会，要么我猜，在我的余生中成为一个奇怪的孤独的老鼠人？

I don't know if that's like-- it seems like those are the two options.

我不知道是不是——看起来这就是两个选择。

And the fact that I'm weighing that decision is probably not a good sign.

事实上，我正在权衡这个决定，这可能不是一个好兆头。

That should be a pretty easy choice.

这应该是一个非常简单的选择。

I would think that a couple of years ago, it would have been an easy choice for me, but all of a sudden, it's not.

我认为几年前，这对我来说是一个容易的选择，但突然之间，事实并非如此。

And at the party, you turned to me after explaining all of this.

在聚会上，你解释完这一切后转向我。

And you said, is me being a rat guy a deal breaker?

你说，我是个老鼠人，会破坏交易吗？

Yes, because it's not just that Todd has rats.

是的，因为不仅仅是托德有老鼠。

That's his name, by the way-- Todd.

顺便说一句，这是他的名字——托德。

He has 12.

他有12个。

They roam free all day, and they've taken over his living room, where he's set up an American gladiator-style obstacle course with tiny ropes for the rats to swing from furniture.

它们整天自由漫步，占领了他的客厅，他在那里设置了一个美国角斗士式的障碍训练场，并用细绳子让老鼠在家具上荡来荡去。

If this were a Disney movie, it'd be magical.

如果这是一部迪士尼电影，那就太神奇了。

But if Todd were your Tinder date, you'd report his profile.

但如果托德是你在 Tinder 上的约会对象，你就会举报他的个人资料。

A little about Todd-- he's 39, a writer living in LA.

关于托德，他今年 39 岁，是一位住在洛杉矶的作家。

He's tall, attractive.

他身材高大，很有魅力。

Says he wants to find a real relationship and settle down.

说他想找到一段真正的关系并安定下来。

According to his friends, he's really broken up over this choice, constantly telling them he's going to get rid of the rats, but unable to pull the trigger.

据他的朋友们说，他对这个选择真的很崩溃，不断地告诉他们他要消灭老鼠，但无法扣动扳机。

He's truly at a crossroads.

他确实处在十字路口。

Obviously, I have a strong bias for which road I think he should take, the kind of road that when you're walking, a rat doesn't suddenly come scurrying out, brushing against your feet.

显然，我对他应该走哪条路有强烈的偏见，就是那种当你走路时，老鼠不会突然窜出来，擦着你的脚的路。

And the only thing I didn't understand-- why was this so hard for him?

我唯一不明白的是——为什么这对他来说这么难？

OK, so just help me.

好吧，那就帮帮我吧。

Walk me through it.

引导我完成它。

So how did it start with the rats?

那么它是如何从老鼠身上开始的呢？

I think that the rats, in a weird way-- I think everybody has at least one weird thing that they got into during the pandemic.

我认为老鼠以一种奇怪的方式——我认为每个人在大流行期间都至少遇到过一件奇怪的事情。

For some people, it was like knitting or a weird Japanese TV show.

对于某些人来说，这就像编织或奇怪的日本电视节目。

For me, it was having a bunch of pet rats.

对我来说，就是养一群宠物老鼠。

Wait, so I see.

等等，我明白了。

So basically, you're saying this decision could only have happened during the pandemic.

所以基本上，你是说这个决定只能在大流行期间发生。

100%.

100%。

Before the pandemic, I was not what you would call a rat person.

在大流行之前，我不是你们所说的老鼠人。

I spent 10 years living in New York.

我在纽约生活了 10 年。

I thought rats were pests, not pets.

我以为老鼠是害虫，不是宠物。

Like, they are slightly above or below bedbugs, I guess, on the New York Things You Don't Ever Want in Your Apartment list.

就像，我猜，在纽约“你不想在你的公寓里出现的东西”清单上，它们的排名略高于或低于臭虫。

It was probably three weeks into the first lockdown.

第一次封锁可能已经过去三周了。

I was going on a walk, and when I got home in the parking lot to my apartment, I saw this little, tiny, cute, little rat, and he was crawling.

我当时正在散步，当我回到家的停车场时，我看到了这只小小的、可爱的小老鼠，他正在爬行。

And it wasn't like scampering away.

这并不像是逃跑。

He was crawling, and his back legs weren't working.

他正在爬行，后腿无法活动。

He was kind of like dragging his body with his front little arms.

他有点像用前面的小手臂拖着身体。

It almost looked like out of Saving Private Ryan, just like a wounded soldier trying to carry himself to safety.

这看起来就像是《拯救大兵瑞恩》中的场景，就像一名受伤的士兵试图将自己带到安全的地方。

And I felt so bad.

我感觉很糟糕。

It was like one of the saddest things I'd ever seen, combined with also being super lonely in lockdown and just going on a super introspective walk.

这就像我见过的最悲伤的事情之一，加上在封锁期间非常孤独，并且只是进行一次超级内省的散步。

And I was like, I'm going to save this rat.

我当时想，我要拯救这只老鼠。

I'm going to bring this rat upstairs.

我要把这只老鼠带上楼。

I'm going to nurse it back to health.

我要护理它使其恢复健康。

Todd put on a pair of gloves, picked up the rat, put it in a box, did the ickey dance, then went upstairs.

托德戴上手套，捡起老鼠，把它放进盒子里，跳起了艾基舞，然后上楼了。

The first thing that happened is I called the Humane Society because I was like, I'll take care of this rat until they can take him in, thinking I would do that the next morning.

发生的第一件事是我给人道协会打电话，因为我想，我会照顾这只老鼠，直到他们可以收留他，我想第二天早上我就会这么做。

And they were like-- immediately, the girl on the phone was like, yeah, we don't do anything with rats.

他们立即说，电话里的女孩说，是的，我们不会对老鼠做任何事情。

I can call animal control to get rid of it if you want, but we don't do anything for rats.

如果你愿意的话我可以打电话给动物控制中心来消灭它，但我们不会为老鼠做任何事情。

Wait, the Humane Society is like, uh, ew, no rats.

等等，人道协会就像，呃，呃，没有老鼠。

Yeah, at least the one in LA, yeah, they are not very humane.

是的，至少洛杉矶的，是的，他们不太人性化。

The woman was humane enough to give him the number of a rat rescue.

这位女士很仁慈，给了他救老鼠的电话号码。

He calls and talks to a woman named Shannon, who says she'd love to take his rats.

他打电话给一位名叫香农的女士并与之交谈，她说她很乐意带走他的老鼠。

But she can't for 10 days because she's out of town.

但她有 10 天不能去，因为她不在城里。

She's like, can you handle it till then and keep it?

她说，你能处理到那时并保留它吗？

I was like, yeah, of course, I can, knowing nothing about rats or anything.

我当时想，是的，当然可以，我对老鼠什么的一无所知。

But I was like, awesome.

但我当时想，太棒了。

We've got a project now.

我们现在有一个项目。

Let's do it.

我们开始做吧。

Because of the pandemic, Todd had lost his job.

由于大流行，托德失业了。

He spent most days sitting at home with his wheels spinning.

他大部分时间都坐在家里，车轮在旋转。

So Project Keep Rat Alive Until Shannon Gets Home became his new focus.

于是“让老鼠活着直到香农回家”项目成了他的新焦点。

Todd was in luck, though.

不过，托德很幸运。

The rat he took home wasn't a street rat.

他带回家的老鼠不是街头老鼠。

It was a discarded pet rat.

这是一只被遗弃的宠物鼠。

While they're the same species, the difference between street rats and pet rats is similar to wolves versus dogs.

虽然它们是同一物种，但街头老鼠和宠物老鼠之间的区别类似于狼与狗之间的区别。

Still, the first night did not go well.

尽管如此，第一个晚上过得并不顺利。

Todd was afraid of the rat, and it seemed afraid of him.

托德害怕老鼠，老鼠似乎也害怕他。

It escaped the cardboard box it was in multiple times.

它多次从原来所在的纸板箱中逃脱。

But quickly, Todd went from being grossed out to engrossed.

但很快，托德就从恶心变成了全神贯注。

He'd google, why does my rat do this, and lose himself for hours reading all sorts of rat behavioral studies.

他会用谷歌搜索，为什么我的老鼠会这样做，然后花几个小时阅读各种老鼠行为研究。

Also, every pet rat is different because they all have different personalities, much like people.

此外，每只宠物鼠都是不同的，因为它们都有不同的性格，就像人一样。

And so you'll go on the Rat Reddit, or Raddit, as it's called, and to Google to look up--

所以你可以去 Rat Reddit（或者叫 Raddit），然后到 Google 上查找——

It's called Raddit.

它的名字叫拉迪特。

They've got a good one.

他们有一个很好的。

They locked that down pretty good.

他们把它锁定得很好。

It was a real crash course into learning about everything about rats.

这是了解有关老鼠的一切的真正速成课程。

You have to get it a buddy.

你必须找个朋友。

Basically, they hate being alone.

基本上，他们讨厌孤独。

They get lonely and depressed.

他们变得孤独和沮丧。

And so immediately, I was like, OK, I got to get it another rat for like 10 days, or at this point, it was like 8.

所以我立刻就想，好吧，我得再养一只老鼠大约 10 天，或者在这一点上，大约是 8 天。

And so I went on Craigslist and started looking up rats for sale.

于是我就在 Craigslist 上开始寻找待售的老鼠。

So I found a guy who was selling rats for like $3 apiece.

于是我找到了一个以每只 3 美元的价格出售老鼠的人。

And I went to that dude's house, and he's like, OK, here's the two rats I have.

我去了那个家伙的房子，他说，好吧，这是我的两只老鼠。

Which one do you want?

您想要哪一款？

And there's two little cute rats in a little fish tank thing.

一个小鱼缸里有两只可爱的小老鼠。

And I was like, I don't care.

我当时想，我不在乎。

Which one do you not want?

哪一件是你不想要的？

And he's like, well, it doesn't matter to me.

他说，好吧，这对我来说并不重要。

I'm just going to feed the other one to my snake.

我要把另一只喂给我的蛇。

And I was like, well, now I don't want the other rat's blood on my hands.

我当时想，好吧，现在我不想让另一只老鼠的血沾在我的手上。

I'll just buy them both.

我就把它们都买下来。

So at that point, I had three rats.

所以那时我有三只老鼠。

And obviously, very quickly, I was becoming like-- they were definitely my best friends and my only friends because, again, it was lockdown.

显然，很快，我就变得像——他们绝对是我最好的朋友，也是我唯一的朋友，因为，再一次，它被封锁了。

And so, at the point that this lady Shannon got back from visiting her family and was ready to take the original rat in to her rodent rescue, I no longer wanted to give him up.

因此，当这位香农女士探望家人回来并准备将原来的老鼠带去她的啮齿动物救援组织时，我不再想放弃它。

And in fact, she was not surprised that my rat culture had already multiplied to three.

事实上，她对我的老鼠培养物已经增加到三只并不感到惊讶。

She's like, that's how it happens.

她就像，事情就是这样发生的。

And then I was like, no way.

然后我就想，没办法。

She's like, yeah, I--

她就像，是的，我——

Wait, she literally says, that's how it happens?

等等，她字面意思是，事情就是这样发生的？

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

She was laughing.

她在笑。

She was like, yeah, that's literally every rat owner.

她说，是的，这就是每个老鼠的主人。

You start with one, and then all of a sudden, you have a ton.

你从一个开始，然后突然之间，你就有了很多。

She tells him about another rodent rescue where he can get even more rats.

她告诉他另一场啮齿动物救援活动，他可以在那里找到更多的老鼠。

Todd says--

托德说——

I think I'm OK with three, Shannon.

我想我可以接受三个，香农。

Thanks a lot.

多谢。

I hang up the phone, immediately go on Instagram, look at the South Bay Rodent Rescue, and later that day, I had two more rats.

我挂断电话，立即上 Instagram，查看南湾啮齿动物救援中心，那天晚些时候，我又抓到了两只老鼠。

I was up to five.

我已经五岁了。

And I'm pretty sure-- I want to say later that week, we got to eight.

我很确定——我想说那周晚些时候，我们达到了八点。

Like, if you added up all the rats I've had between the ones that have died and the ones that got fostered, I feel like I probably had 35 rats at this point, which is pretty insane.

就像，如果你把我养过的所有老鼠（死的和养的）加起来，我觉得我现在可能有 35 只老鼠，这太疯狂了。

35 rats?

35只老鼠？

Actually, it was 37.

事实上，那是37。

There's Claude, Pearl, Arthur, Marceaux, Birdi, Lucy, Henry, Bobby, Caesar, Leonard, Oliver, Harriet, Luke, Amanda, Julian, Roger, Ricky, Bo, Penelope, Sweet Lou, Dave, Kelsey, Alonzo, Ebenezer, Eddie, Beth, Sven, Ozmo, Jake, Delilah, Klaus, Alasdair, Eleanor, Gertie, Joshua, Heidi, and Peter.

其中有克劳德、珀尔、亚瑟、马索、博迪、露西、亨利、鲍比、凯撒、伦纳德、奥利弗、哈里特、卢克、阿曼达、朱利安、罗杰、瑞奇、博、佩内洛普、斯威特·卢、戴夫、凯尔西、阿朗佐、埃比尼泽、埃迪、贝丝、斯文、奥兹莫、杰克、黛利拉、克劳斯、阿拉斯代尔、埃莉诺、格蒂、约书亚、海蒂和彼得。

He didn't have them all at once.

他并不是一下子就拥有了它们。

Rats only live a few years.

老鼠的寿命只有几年。

So the most he's ever had at one time was 14.

所以他曾经拥有过的最多的一次是 14 次。

When I've told friends about Todd's rats, they've asked me, is he OK?

当我告诉朋友关于托德的老鼠的事情时，他们问我，他还好吗？

Like, is he having a breakdown or anything?

比如，他是不是精神崩溃了？

And the answer is, emphatically, no, he's fine.

答案是，不，他很好。

But he'd just lost his job, and he was having a hard time getting motivated to find another one in the pandemic job market.

但他刚刚失业，而且他很难有动力在大流行的就业市场上找到另一份工作。

And besides, how could he?

再说了，他怎么可能呢？

He was so busy falling in love with rats.

他正忙着爱上老鼠。

I see rats as vermin, carriers of disease.

我认为老鼠是害虫，是疾病的携带者。

Just thinking of them skeeves me out.

一想到他们就让我感到厌烦。

But Todd says, I just don't know them.

但托德说，我就是不认识他们。

Like a proud parent, he told me things about rats that converted him.

就像一位骄傲的父母一样，他告诉我有关老鼠的事情，这些事情改变了他的想法。

And I got to say, I actually had no idea how intelligent these animals could be.

我不得不说，我实际上不知道这些动物有多聪明。

That's part of what hooked Todd.

这就是托德着迷的部分原因。

He observed--

他观察到——

Rats are like obsessed with what we know about what they know.

老鼠就像痴迷于我们所知道的关于他们所知道的事情。

They never want us to know what they know.

他们从不希望我们知道他们所知道的事情。

There's the mind game level.

这是智力游戏级别。

It's like CIA-level mind games of like, they want to keep us in the dark about whatever information they have or whatever they know how to do.

这就像中央情报局级别的心理游戏一样，他们想让我们对他们拥有的任何信息或他们知道如何做的任何事情一无所知。

So they're very secretive.

所以他们非常隐秘。

They love hiding stuff and stashing stuff.

他们喜欢隐藏东西和藏匿东西。

And they never want to be caught doing anything naughty, right?

他们永远不想被发现做任何顽皮的事情，对吗？

In the beginning, Todd would give his rats treats, which they'd take and stash in hiding spots all over his apartment.

一开始，托德会给他的老鼠吃零食，它们会把这些零食藏在他公寓各处的藏身之处。

Every night, he'd have to clean 20 to 25 little stashes.

每天晚上，他必须清理 20 到 25 个小储藏室。

Todd started to get suspicious.

托德开始起了疑心。

He was giving them treats, but not this many treats.

他给了他们零食，但没有这么多。

So he set up a GoPro facing the treat drawer to find out what was happening.

因此，他将 GoPro 放在零食抽屉前，想看看发生了什么。

Sure enough, the rats had figured out how to open the treat drawer by standing underneath it and pushing it open as a team.

果然，老鼠们已经学会了如何打开零食抽屉，方法是站在抽屉下面，并以团队的方式将其推开。

They'd steal treats, then close it shut.

他们会偷东西，然后把门关上。

Todd immediately moved the treats up to the middle door.

托德立即将零食移至中门。

The next day he came into the kitchen, the middle drawer was open, and all the treats were gone.

第二天，他走进厨房，发现中间的抽屉打开了，所有的食物都不见了。

He reviewed the GoPro footage to try to figure out what happened.

他查看了 GoPro 的录像，试图弄清楚发生了什么。

Come to find out that three of them had figured out that if they wedged-- so the oven is next to this cabinet.

发现他们三个人已经想通了，如果他们楔入——那么烤箱就在这个柜子旁边。

If they wedged themselves against the oven, with their little tiny fingers, they were able to kind of just wedge in between the drawer and get it out just enough that then they could stick their face in, use their face to wedge it out more.

如果他们用小手指把自己靠在烤箱上，他们就能把抽屉塞进抽屉里，然后把它拿出来，这样他们就可以把脸伸进去，用脸把抽屉再楔出来。

And then all of a sudden, they were able to climb into this middle drawer and start stealing food again.

然后突然之间，他们能够爬进中间的抽屉并再次开始偷食物。

But then, they figured out that they can't close the second drawer because there's no way to push it close.

但后来，他们发现他们无法关闭第二个抽屉，因为没有办法将其推近。

They'd been closing the bottom door.

他们一直关着底下的门。

Oh, and if it's not closed, then that means they're caught.

哦，如果它没有关闭，那就意味着他们被抓住了。

Now you're totally caught.

现在你完全被抓住了。

So then I don't know what little rat meeting they had, but they somehow came up with the idea that instead of getting caught with the second drawer open and that they had been stealing food, they would take all of the food and treats from the second drawer and put it back into the first drawer, the bottom drawer.

所以我不知道他们有什么小老鼠会议，但他们不知怎的想出了一个主意，他们不会在第二个抽屉打开的时候被抓到他们一直在偷食物，而是从第二个抽屉里拿走所有的食物和零食，然后把它放回第一个抽屉，即底部的抽屉里。

So then hopefully, when I would find it, I would think that they were like helping me put it back in the correct drawer.

所以希望当我找到它时，我会认为他们就像帮我把它放回正确的抽屉里一样。

Todd opens the bottom drawer, and the treats are all there.

托德打开底部抽屉，零食都在那里。

Another thing I learned talking to Todd about rats is that they can jump incredibly high, like bunnies.

我在与托德谈论老鼠时学到的另一件事是，它们可以像兔子一样跳得非常高。

Todd learned this when he set up his GoPro to figure out how his rats were getting into these high cubbies.

托德在设置 GoPro 来弄清楚他的老鼠是如何进入这些高高的小隔间时了解到了这一点。

The footage showed they were crawling onto the kitchen table and launching themselves four feet in the air.

视频显示，他们爬到厨房的桌子上，然后将自己弹到四英尺高的空中。

Todd knows their secret, but they don't know he knows.

托德知道他们的秘密，但他们不知道他知道。

A few days later, he wakes up.

几天后，他醒了。

And I walked into the living room, and I saw Claude.

我走进客厅，看到了克劳德。

And he was running over to go do this, and then he kind of stopped and froze.

他正跑过去去做这件事，然后他停了下来，僵住了。

He had been busted doing something naughty.

他因为做了一些淘气的事而被抓了。

And he walked up to the edge of the table, and I looked at him.

他走到桌子边缘，我看着他。

And he kind of turned and looked at me, and then he turned and looked at the cubbies.

他转过身来看着我，然后又转过身来看着那些小家伙。

And then he turned and looked at me again.

然后他又转过身来看着我。

And then he jumped straight up, just a couple-- the saddest little jump and just belly flopped onto the ground.

然后他径直跳了起来，只有几个——最悲伤的小跳，然后肚子重重地摔在了地上。

He essentially tried to trick me into thinking that he could not make this jump that very easily could be done and I have seen them do now on camera many, many times.

他本质上是试图欺骗我，让我认为他无法完成这个很容易就能完成的跳跃，而我现在已经在镜头前看到他们做了很多很多次。

I was just like, did that just happen?

我当时就想，这真的发生了吗？

Did this rat just try to trick me into thinking he couldn't do something I know he can do?

难道这只老鼠只是想欺骗我，让我相信他做不到我知道他能做的事情吗？

I talked to a rodent behavior specialist about all of this.

我与啮齿动物行为专家讨论了所有这一切。

He says Todd's got it mostly right.

他说托德基本上是对的。

He wouldn't go so far as to say the rats were trying to trick Todd, but he said that rats know what will or won't get them treats from their owner, and they'll behave accordingly.

他不会说老鼠试图欺骗托德，但他说老鼠知道什么会或不会从主人那里得到食物，它们会做出相应的行为。

What Todd is reading as intent is actually the nuance with which the rats can read the cues he's giving.

托德所解读的意图实际上是老鼠能够解读他给出的暗示的细微差别。

I was surprised when the rodent guy told me how perceptive they are.

当啮齿动物家伙告诉我他们的洞察力有多么敏锐时，我感到很惊讶。

If you're stressed, a rat can smell that.

如果你有压力，老鼠就能闻到。

They also study your posture.

他们还会研究你的姿势。

They read your facial expressions.

他们读懂你的面部表情。

They can detect things about us that we can't even see in each other.

他们可以发现我们身上一些我们甚至在彼此身上看不到的东西。

And they're social animals.

他们是社会动物。

If you like them and aren't trying to kill them, they want to play all day.

如果你喜欢它们并且不想杀死它们，它们就会想玩一整天。

They enjoy it, which Todd noticed.

托德注意到了，他们很享受这种感觉。

It was non-stop entertainment.

这是不间断的娱乐。

They are always up to something.

他们总是在搞事情。

And also, they're so loving.

而且，他们非常有爱。

They're one of the most loving creatures you could ever have as a pet.

它们是你能拥有的最可爱的宠物之一。

They just are obsessed with you.

他们只是对你着迷。

It's like--

这就像——

Wait, OK, this is the side of rats I do not know about.

等等，好吧，这是我不知道的老鼠的一面。

No one talks about rats, they're so loving.

没有人谈论老鼠，它们是如此有爱。

So can you just-- like, I need you to-- I need you to convince me that that's true.

那么你能不能——就像，我需要你——我需要你让我相信那是真的。

That's fair.

这很公平。

That's totally understandable.

这是完全可以理解的。

But as far as their loving nature is like, they just constantly want to come cuddle and kiss you and give you little licks.

但就他们充满爱的天性而言，他们只是不断地想拥抱你、亲吻你、舔你一下。

And so I fully admit that like I am pretty far off the deep end into pet rat ownership.

所以我完全承认，我离养宠物鼠的深渊还很远。

But there's still another level that I haven't sunk to yet, which is a lot of people let their rats clean their teeth and stuff, which is disgusting to me.

但我还没有达到另一个水平，那就是很多人让他们的老鼠清洁牙齿之类的东西，这让我感到恶心。

But rats love to groom you because that is like hugging and kissing.

但老鼠喜欢给你梳理毛发，因为这就像拥抱和亲吻一样。

I think that I got a lot of booger eaters right now.

我想我现在有很多吃鼻屎的人。

They just always want to get in my nose and try to clean my boogers, which is like, dude, stop.

他们总是想进入我的鼻子并试图清理我的鼻屎，这就像，伙计，停下来。

That is disgusting.

那太恶心了。

Wait, you have a line?

等等，你有电话线吗？

Todd Oh, yeah, I do.

托德哦，是的，我愿意。

I do.

我愿意。

Yeah, I will not let them clean my teeth or boogers.

是的，我不会让他们清洁我的牙齿或鼻屎。

The ear thing is like I don't want them crawling inside my ear, but it is really cute when they try to because you hear their little squeaks and sniffs, and that's pretty cute.

耳朵的事情就像我不想让它们爬进我的耳朵一样，但当它们试图爬进我的耳朵时，它真的很可爱，因为你听到它们的小吱吱声和嗅觉，这非常可爱。

But then once they start trying to get into your ear to clean it, it's like, dude, stop.

但一旦他们开始试图进入你的耳朵来清洁它，就像，伙计，停下来。

That's disgusting.

太恶心了。

The idea of Todd being groomed by rats brings me back to his predicament.

托德被老鼠梳理毛发的想法让我想起了他的困境。

When does the thought, OK, I need to get rid of these rats if I want to have love and a relationship, when does that occur to you?

你什么时候会想到“好吧，如果我想要拥有爱和关系，我需要摆脱这些老鼠”，你什么时候会出现这种想法？

Yeah, so for me, I feel like as the pandemic started kind of actually winding down a bit, I think the last variant, it felt like things were opening up again.

是的，所以对我来说，我觉得随着大流行的开始，实际上有所缓解，我认为最后一个变体，感觉事情又重新开放了。

I was going to parties again for the first time in a while and meeting people at parties.

我一段时间以来第一次再次参加聚会，并在聚会上与人见面。

And I think I was at a friend's party, and the moment kind of occurred.

我想我当时正在参加一个朋友的聚会，而这一刻就发生了。

I met a girl at this party, and we really hit it off.

我在这次聚会上认识了一个女孩，我们一拍即合。

And we were flirting.

我们正在调情。

And then we exchanged numbers.

然后我们交换了号码。

And then we kind of kept talking, and then she inquired about potentially getting a drink.

然后我们一直聊着，然后她询问是否可以喝一杯。

So we get a drink after this party, and then as things were winding down, and the bar was closing, I think like anybody, you fall into old habits.

所以我们在聚会结束后喝了一杯，然后随着事情逐渐结束，酒吧关门了，我想像任何人一样，你也会陷入旧习惯。

You're like, OK, do you want to go back to my place?

你说，好吧，你想回我家吗？

And she's like, yeah.

她说，是的。

And it was like a Kaiser Soce moment, where all of a sudden, in my head, I was like, oh, my god, wait a minute.

这就像凯撒社会的时刻，突然间，在我的脑海里，我想，哦，天哪，等一下。

I have, at that point, 12 rats in my apartment.

那时我的公寓里有 12 只老鼠。

It had not even occurred to me like, I can't bring this person home to an apartment full of rats.

我什至没有想到，我不能把这个人带回家到一个充满老鼠的公寓。

I was like, the first thing that rushed through my mind is like, how do I explain this to her to preface this before we go to my apartment?

我当时想，我脑子里闪过的第一件事就是，在我们去我的公寓之前，我该如何向她解释这一点？

And very quickly, I was like, there is no way to explain having 12 rats in your apartment.

很快，我就想，无法解释你的公寓里有 12 只老鼠。

They were in his car on the way home.

他们在回家的路上坐在他的车里。

Todd turns to the woman and says--

托德转向那个女人说——

Actually, I'm really sorry.

其实我真的很抱歉。

I lied and said, I'm actually really, really tired, and I have an early morning tomorrow.

我撒谎说，我其实真的真的真的很累，明天还要早起。

And so this girl probably thought I was not that into her and having second thoughts when in reality, it was because I didn't want to expose her to a rat-filled apartment.

所以这个女孩可能认为我没那么喜欢她，并重新考虑了，但实际上，这是因为我不想让她暴露在一个充满老鼠的公寓里。

He takes her back to her car, and they never see each other again.

他把她带回车里，他们再也没有见面。

I remember laying in bed that night being like, well, this is probably the end of rat ownership.

我记得那天晚上躺在床上，我想，好吧，这可能是老鼠所有权的终结。

If we're going to be like meeting people again, life is kind of starting to get back to normal, this is not something that you can explain to somebody.

如果我们要再次与人见面，生活就会开始恢复正常，这不是你可以向别人解释的事情。

Todd's tried to get rid of the rats, posted them online, but then every time, he ends up backing out at the last minute, so much so that he's been banned from multiple online LA rat groups.

托德试图消灭这些老鼠，并将它们发布到网上，但每次他都会在最后一刻退出，以至于他被禁止加入多个在线洛杉矶老鼠团体。

3 and 1/2 weeks ago, I had a woman who was coming to adopt them who-- I feel really bad.

3又1/2周前，我有一个女人要收养他们，她——我感觉非常糟糕。

She drove all the way from Simi Valley, and like a half hour before, I was like, I'm so sorry.

她从西米谷一路开车过来，大约半小时前，我就想，我很抱歉。

I can't do this.

我不能这样做。

I got to keep them.

我必须保留它们。

I'm really, really sorry.

我真的非常非常抱歉。

I offered to Venmo her for her gas.

我向 Venmo 提出要她加油。

But she was like, no, don't worry about it, whatever.

但她说，不，别担心，无论如何。

But yeah, it's really hard to get rid of them.

但是，是的，摆脱它们确实很难。

I've tried quite a bit.

我已经尝试了很多。

It's tough.

它太硬。

Oh, man.

哦，伙计。

I don't think you're going to be able to do it.

我认为你做不到。

I know, but I have to.

我知道，但我必须这么做。

There's got to be a way.

一定有办法的。

Why do you have to?

为什么你必须这样做？

Todd This is definitely not a sustainable way of living life.

托德这绝对不是一种可持续的生活方式。

Todd told me he was planning on getting rid of all of his rats within a month.

托德告诉我，他计划在一个月内消灭掉所有的老鼠。

[LAUGHS] All right, so it's been four months since we last talked.

[笑]好吧，距离我们上次谈话已经过去四个月了。

It's been four months, well, minus a few days.

已经四个月了，还差几天。

I'm dying to know, have you given away the rats?

我很想知道，你把老鼠送走了吗？

I have not.

我没有。

I have, I feel like, made some progress in that I have committed to not getting any more rats or any new rats, which I think is a big step, a first step.

我觉得我已经取得了一些进展，因为我承诺不再再有老鼠或任何新的老鼠，我认为这是一大步，第一步。

I'm down to three now, unfortunately.

不幸的是，我现在只剩下三个了。

You're down to three rats?

你只剩下三只老鼠了？

Todd Down to three rats, yeah.

托德下降到三只老鼠，是的。

Since Todd got most of them around the same time, many of them died around the same time.

由于托德大约在同一时间得到了他们中的大多数，因此他们中的许多人大约在同一时间死亡。

It's been hard.

这很难。

He's actively restraining himself when he has the urge to get more rats.

当他有想要抓更多老鼠的冲动时，他正在积极克制自己。

That takes discipline.

这需要纪律。

Elna Baker What was the closest you came?

Elna Baker 你最近的距离是多少？

A week ago.

一周前。

Man, there was a really cute rat.

伙计，有一只非常可爱的老鼠。

There was a rat like a week ago that came from the same breed as one of my favorite rats, my first rat, Claude, that died that was just like, oh, he's the cutest and best little rat.

大约一周前，有一只老鼠与我最喜欢的老鼠，我的第一只老鼠克劳德来自同一品种，它死了，就像，哦，他是最可爱、最好的小老鼠。

And there was a really cute video that one of the rodent rescues posted, and it was like, yeah, he's up for adoption.

一位啮齿动物救援组织发布了一段非常可爱的视频，就像是，是的，他即将被收养。

I was like, man, four isn't that different than three.

我当时想，伙计，四个和三个没什么不同。

Maybe I'll just get one more and then see where that goes.

也许我会再买一个，然后看看它会去哪里。

But he was a young rat, and I was like, if I get a fourth one that's young, then I'm going to have to get him a buddy when the other three die.

但他是一只年轻的老鼠，我想，如果我得到第四只年轻的老鼠，那么当其他三只死掉时，我就必须给他找一个伙伴。

And then now we're at two, and then you know where this goes from there.

现在我们已经两点了，然后你就知道接下来会发生什么了。

It spirals out of control pretty quickly.

它很快就会失控。

So why is he finally letting go of his rats?

那么他为什么最终放走了他的老鼠呢？

What changed?

发生了什么变化？

After our first call, he started opening up to women on dating apps about his rat ownership.

在我们第一次通话后，他开始在约会应用程序上向女性敞开心扉，谈论他拥有老鼠的情况。

To his surprise, at least half were totally cool with it.

令他惊讶的是，至少有一半人对此完全不介意。

He even brought four dates home to meet the rats.

他甚至带了四颗枣子回家去见老鼠。

It went great.

进展顺利。

This huge obstacle he'd invented, rats or love, it wasn't actually a problem, which made him look at why he was so embarrassed about being a rat guy in the first place.

他发明的这个巨大障碍，不管是老鼠还是爱情，实际上都不是问题，这让他开始思考自己为什么会因为自己是一个老鼠人而感到如此尴尬。

I think I was more embarrassed and ashamed of being, in general, who I was and where I was at that point.

我想我对自己当时的身份和处境感到更加尴尬和羞愧。

Obviously, the pandemic, everything that my identity was wrapped around had been paused.

显然，大流行，我的身份所围绕的一切都被暂停了。

I love those rats.

我喜欢那些老鼠。

Do not get me wrong.

不要误会我的意思。

And they are super fun.

他们非常有趣。

But I think also, you could argue that I was using rat ownership as a way of avoiding addressing other problems in life because that's like the double whammy, is like, OK, I'm not pouring all this time into this weird hobby.

但我也认为，你也可以说我使用老鼠所有权作为避免解决生活中其他问题的一种方式，因为这就像双重打击，就像，好吧，我不会一直投入到这个奇怪的爱好中。

That means I do have to pour it into getting my career back on track, addressing my personal life, addressing my love life, and actually taking those things serious.

这意味着我必须投入精力让我的事业重回正轨，解决我的个人生活，解决我的爱情生活，并真正认真对待这些事情。

I don't have this great excuse anymore to avoid them.

我再也没有这个好借口来躲避他们了。

Todd's taking steps to move towards a life without rats.

托德正在采取措施走向没有老鼠的生活。

He's taken down all the paintings and pictures the rats chewed the edges of and is replacing them with new art.

他取下了所有被老鼠咬过边缘的绘画和图片，并用新的艺术品取而代之。

The rats destroyed all his plants.

老鼠毁掉了他所有的植物。

He's buying new ones.

他正在买新的。

And he's been going out on lots of dates.

他出去约会过很多次。

He feels hopeful about his new life, though he did say, when he's out buying new plants, maybe he'll see a new rat and get that, too.

他对自己的新生活充满希望，尽管他确实说过，当他出去购买新植物时，也许他会看到一只新老鼠并得到它。

Elna Baker, she's a producer on this show and a real one to us rats.

埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker），她是这个节目的制片人，对我们这些老鼠来说，她是一个真正的制片人。

Coming up.

即将到来。

No country for old rats.

老老鼠没有国家。

We visit a vast place that has somehow gotten rid of rats.

我们参观了一个以某种方式消灭了老鼠的广阔地方。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio.

距芝加哥公共广播电台仅一分钟路程。

When our program continues.

当我们的计划继续进行时。

Act Two: The Big Bag Theory Ira Glass It's This American Life.

第二幕：大包理论艾拉·格拉斯这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program, "Must Be Rats on the Brain." My co-hosts today, New York street rats Reggie and Rachel.

今天的节目《脑子里一定是老鼠》。今天我的搭档主持人是纽约街头老鼠雷吉和瑞秋。

We're here.

我们到了。

Ira Glass Oh, you guys.

艾拉·格拉斯噢，你们。

Welcome back to the second half.

欢迎回到下半场。

We have arrived at Act Two of our program.

我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。

Act Two, "The Big Bag Theory."

第二幕，“大包理论”。

So the Mayor of New York and his new rat czar have declared this renewed war on rats that we talked about at the beginning of the show, this war that's supposedly going to be way more effective and lethal.

因此，纽约市长和他的新老鼠沙皇宣布了我们在节目开始时谈到的这场新的老鼠战争，这场战争据说会更加有效和致命。

But one thing about the entire project that's seems kind of absurd is that one big reason that there are so many rats is just really obvious.

但整个项目似乎有点荒谬的一件事是，有这么多老鼠的一个重要原因是非常明显的。

It's just completely out in the open, not complicated at all.

它只是完全公开的，一点也不复杂。

That's right.

这是正确的。

Yeah, right, it's racism.

是的，没错，这是种族主义。

Oh, no, I'm sorry.

哦，不，对不起。

No, it's plastic bags.

不，是塑料袋。

Yeah, excuse me.

是的，对不起。

Yeah, the plastic bags.

是的，塑料袋。

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the plastic.

是啊是啊，塑料的。

Yeah, that's the thing.

是的，就是这样。

New Yorkers put out their garbage in plastic bags.

纽约人把垃圾装在塑料袋里。

And if you've ever visited the city for more than a day, you've seen these.

如果您曾在这座城市停留超过一天，您就会看到这些。

They're on the sidewalk at night, just huge stacks of them just stretching down the block.

晚上，它们出现在人行道上，一大堆它们沿着街区延伸。

It's about 8 million pounds of food waste every day.

每天大约有 800 万磅食物浪费。

That's one pound for every man, woman, child, and non-binary person in the five boroughs.

这相当于五个行政区中每个男人、女人、儿童和非二元性别人士的一英镑。

And it is also a lot of rat food.

而且也是大量的老鼠粮。

It's like a buffet on every block.

这就像每个街区都有自助餐。

And you're saying, oh, no, don't eat the buffet food.

你会说，哦，不，不要吃自助餐。

And is it very hard tearing into a plastic garbage bag?

撕开塑料垃圾袋很难吗？

Is it hard to walk?

走路困难吗？

Ira Glass All right, all right, point taken.

艾拉·格拉斯好吧，好吧，我明白了。

OK, so why, why, why would the biggest city in the country decide to do something so absurd and counterproductive?

好吧，那么为什么、为什么、为什么这个国家最大的城市会决定做一些如此荒谬和适得其反的事情呢？

One of our producers, Ike Sriskandarajah, looked into that.

我们的一位制作人 Ike Sriskandarajah 对此进行了调查。

It wasn't always this way.

情况并非总是如此。

New Yorkers used to take out their trash in Oscar the Grouch-style metal cans with tightly fitting lids.

纽约人过去常常用奥斯卡格劳奇式的金属罐倒垃圾，金属罐的盖子紧紧地合在一起。

The cans were ubiquitous-- mostly worked, but nobody liked them.

这些罐子无处不在——大部分都能用，但没人喜欢它们。

Here's how you used to have to take out the trash.

这就是你以前倒垃圾的方式。

You'd put your raw refuse in a metal can.

你会把未加工的垃圾放入金属罐中。

A sanitation worker would drag it to the back of the truck, banging it loudly to empty it out, where New Yorkers, many without hoses, were left to clean out their smelly metal cans.

一名环卫工人会把它拖到卡车后面，大声敲打它以将其清空，许多纽约人没有软管，只能在那里清理发臭的金属罐。

It wasn't great.

这不太好。

Then, in the late '60s, the future arrived.

然后，在 60 年代末，未来到来了。

America put a man on the moon.

美国把人送上月球。

And--

还有——

Here's the answer, folks-- new Glad Trash Bags.

伙计们，答案就是——新的 Glad 垃圾袋。

They're odorproof, scatterproof, so strong they're leakproof.

它们防臭、防散、坚固且防漏。

It's the end of trashy trash.

这是垃圾垃圾的终结。

That's neat.

这很整洁。

Ike Sriskandarajah Plastic trash bags were mass produced for the first time.

Ike Sriskandarajah 首次批量生产塑料垃圾袋。

New York City Mayor John Lindsay saw an opportunity for an easy political win.

纽约市市长约翰·林赛看到了轻松政治胜利的机会。

He called a press conference on May 8, 1969.

1969 年 5 月 8 日，他召开了新闻发布会。

Reporters gathered in the Blue Room at City Hall.

记者聚集在市政厅的蓝厅。

A garbage bag hung on the wall.

墙上挂着一个垃圾袋。

And Mayor Lindsay announced plans for a new experimental program that would allow New Yorkers in half a dozen neighborhoods to drop trash bags directly on the curb overnight.

林赛市长宣布了一项新的实验计划，该计划将允许六个社区的纽约人在夜间将垃圾袋直接扔在路边。

The mayor said he wanted to see if paper and plastic garbage bags could reduce noise, odor, litter, speed up garbage collection, and improve conditions for sanitation workers.

市长表示，他想看看纸质垃圾袋和塑料垃圾袋是否可以减少噪音、气味、减少垃圾，加快垃圾收集速度，并改善环卫工人的条件。

The Sanitation Union was all in, but not everyone was so glad.

环卫工会全力以赴，但并不是每个人都如此高兴。

Bobby Corrigan remembers where he was.

鲍比·科里根记得他在哪里。

These days, he's a world renowned rodentologist, but back then, he was taking an Intro to Pest Management class at SUNY Farmingdale.

如今，他是一位世界知名的啮齿动物学家，但当时，他正在纽约州立大学法明代尔分校参加害虫管理入门课程。

His professor asked the class to consider the mayor's recent announcement.

他的教授要求全班考虑市长最近的声明。

I remember him giving us a lesson about that event.

我记得他给我们上了一堂关于那件事的课。

And he said, I want you to write a homework lesson.

他说，我想让你写作业。

What do you think this is going to do for the rat population of the city to put trash in plastic bags?

你认为这会对城市里的老鼠把垃圾装进塑料袋产生什么影响？

What will this do?

这会做什么？

Even the students in Pest Control 101 could tell what would happen.

就连害虫防治101的学生也能猜到会发生什么。

The writing was on the wall that if we do this, we're going to be literally as if it was a zoological garden.

不祥之兆是，如果我们这样做，我们就会真的就像是一个动物园一样。

We're going to try to grow these animals for some reason.

出于某种原因，我们将尝试饲养这些动物。

Bobby thinks back on this moment often.

鲍比经常回想起这一刻。

In The Terminator version of this movie, which would be called Exterminator, the human survivors of New Rat City would send Bobby back to dive in front of the podium and knock the bag out of Mayor Lindsay's hand.

在这部电影的《终结者》版本中，新鼠城的人类幸存者会把鲍比送回讲台前，把袋子从林赛市长手里打下来。

If I was there sitting in the audience or any pest professional, we all would have went, whoa, whoa, stop.

如果我坐在观众席或任何害虫专业人士那里，我们都会说，哇，哇，停下来。

We have questions back here in the back row.

我们在后排有问题。

Stop, stop.

停下来，停下来。

My message would have-- I would have stood up and say, this is going to be a colossal mistake in public health and a colossal mistake in quality of life.

我的信息是——我会站起来说，这将是公共卫生方面的一个巨大错误，也是生活质量方面的一个巨大错误。

And it needs to be stopped and rethink this whole thing with different approaches.

它需要停止并用不同的方法重新思考整个事情。

How pivotal was this moment in the history of the New York City rat population?

这对于纽约市老鼠种群的历史来说有多重要？

I think it was everything.

我认为这就是一切。

I think it put this animal into hyperdrive.

我认为这让这种动物进入了超光速状态。

He calls this "the Big Bang Theory," or "the Big Bag Theory," because he's funny.

他称之为“大爆炸理论”或“大袋理论”，因为他很有趣。

Right before the bags in 1969, another respected rodentologist named Joe Brooks did a survey and found that rats were only in 11% of New York.

就在 1969 年袋子出现之前，另一位名叫乔·布鲁克斯 (Joe Brooks) 的受人尊敬的啮齿动物学家做了一项调查，发现老鼠只占纽约的 11%。

Now, Bobby says, rats are in 80% to 90% of the city.

鲍比说，现在，城市 80% 到 90% 的区域都有老鼠。

So did anyone in charge see this coming?

那么负责人是否预见到了这一点？

If a bunch of undergrads in an entry-level pest class could tell, couldn't the people running the city?

如果一群初级害虫班的本科生都知道，那么管理城市的人就不能知道吗？

Fortunately, one of the men who brought plastic bags to New York is still alive.

幸运的是，其中一名将塑料袋带到纽约的男子还活着。

Jerry Kretchmer is now 88.

杰里·克雷奇默现年 88 岁。

Back then, he was acting sanitation commissioner.

当时，他担任代理卫生专员。

Jerry might be one of the last people left who can tell us definitively-- did they have any idea that plastic bags would lead to a ratpocalypse?

杰瑞可能是最后能明确告诉我们的人之一——他们知道塑料袋会导致老鼠末日吗？

In 1971, let's just say, if somebody would show me a plastic bag, I would think, that's easy to fill, that's easy to pick up, and they're easy to collect.

在 1971 年，如果有人给我看一个塑料袋，我会想，它很容易装满，很容易拿起，也很容易收集。

Those are the things that I would have thought about it.

这些是我会考虑的事情。

I wouldn't have thought that rats could eat them because that wasn't what I was concerned with.

我没想到老鼠会吃它们，因为那不是我关心的。

My concern is collecting the garbage.

我关心的是收集垃圾。

Is that trade-off worth it?

这种权衡值得吗？

Jerry Kretchmer I don't know if it's worth it.

Jerry Kretchmer 我不知道这是否值得。

My story is we got to get the garbage collected.

我的故事是我们必须收集垃圾。

Rats were not on Jerry's radar at all.

老鼠根本不在杰瑞的雷达范围内。

He was busy removing millions of pounds of garbage from the city every day, which, by the way, is kind of a miracle.

他每天忙着从城市中清除数百万磅的垃圾，顺便说一句，这可以说是一个奇迹。

And bags?

还有包包？

They made that massive job faster, 20% faster.

他们使这项艰巨的工作速度加快了 20%。

Where the city saw efficiency, big bag saw dollar signs.

城市看到了效率，大包看到了美元符号。

Bagmakers primed the public by donating 600,000 sacks and even got to help pick the guy who evaluated the pilot project.

制袋商通过捐赠 600,000 个麻袋来吸引公众，甚至还帮助挑选了评估试点项目的人。

At the initial press conference, that guy claimed the bags would reduce the smell so much that they wouldn't attract rats, which, as any New Yorker who has walked past a pile of black bags baking under the hot sun can tell you, it's just a total lie.

在最初的新闻发布会上，那个家伙声称这些袋子可以大大减少气味，这样就不会吸引老鼠，任何一个走过一堆在烈日下烘烤的黑色袋子的纽约人都会告诉你，这完全是一个谎言。

In January 1971, the city council unanimously voted to approve the use of plastic bags in all five boroughs of New York.

1971年1月，市议会一致投票批准在纽约所有五个区使用塑料袋。

Cans were out, bags were in, and the party began.

罐子拿出来，袋子放进去，聚会开始了。

Oh, to be a New York City rat in the 1970s.

哦，成为 20 世纪 70 年代的纽约老鼠。

Now it's 2023.

现在已经是 2023 年了。

Eric Adams I don't think you're going to find an administration that is more serious about containers and placing our garbage in containers, like we are.

埃里克·亚当斯（Eric Adams）：我认为你不会找到像我们这样对容器和将垃圾放入容器更加认真的政府。

That, of course, is Mayor Eric Adams.

那当然是市长埃里克·亚当斯。

And the big thing he and his new rat czar are doing to take back the city from rats is to get trash bags back in trash cans.

为了从老鼠手中夺回这座城市，他和他的新老鼠沙皇正在做的一件大事就是将垃圾袋放回垃圾桶。

But Adams is putting millions of dollars into a new pilot that undoes Mayor Lindsay's pilot.

但亚当斯正在投入数百万美元进行一项新的试点项目，该项目将取消林赛市长的试点项目。

It puts trash into sleek modern bins.

它将垃圾放入时尚的现代垃圾箱中。

It's ambitious, bold, but here's why it might not work.

这是雄心勃勃、大胆的，但这就是为什么它可能行不通的原因。

The new containers need to be picked up more often, daily or even twice a day.

新容器需要更频繁地拾取，每天甚至一天两次。

This would require hiring more sanitation workers.

这将需要雇用更多的环卫工人。

And buying new special sideloading trucks could cost hundreds of millions of dollars over the next decade.

在未来十年内，购买新的特殊侧装卡车可能会花费数亿美元。

And then there's the parking spots.

然后是停车位。

To make the plan work, the city would need to place the containers in 150,000 parking spots, up to 25% of spots in some neighborhoods.

为了使该计划发挥作用，该市需要将集装箱放置在 150,000 个停车位上，在某些社区中这一比例高达 25%。

So are New Yorkers willing to give up their parking in order to beat back rats?

那么纽约人愿意放弃停车位来击退老鼠吗？

I don't want to give up a parking spot.

我不想放弃停车位。

It's hard enough to find a parking spot.

找到停车位已经够难的了。

You can't get a spot as it is around here, just when you come home at night.

就在你晚上回家的时候，你在这附近找不到位置。

Forget about it.

忘记它吧。

I'd rather get rid of the rat problem.

我宁愿摆脱老鼠的问题。

That's much more important.

这更重要。

I mean, this is a walking city, so it's easy.

我的意思是，这是一座步行城市，所以很容易。

Give up the spots.

放弃斑点。

Woman 2 Give up the spots.

女2 放弃名额。

150,000.

150,000。

Where are they gonna park?

他们要在哪里停车？

In Jersey?

在泽西岛？

You're asking like two very intense things in New York-- finding a spot to park, but not wanting problems with a rat.

你问的问题就像纽约的两件非常激烈的事情——找到一个停车位，但又不想与老鼠发生麻烦。

That is-- 150,000?

那就是——十五万？

You gotta make sacrifices.

你必须做出牺牲。

Man 3 You gotta make sacrifices, but that means people gotta spend more money going to like parking garages.

男人3 你必须做出牺牲，但这意味着人们必须花更多的钱去喜欢停车场。

Oh, I'm going to have to say no.

哦，我不得不说不。

I don't care at all.

我一点也不关心。

Woman 4 Same, it doesn't affect me.

女人4 一样，这对我没有影响。

I don't think I care.

我想我不在乎。

I don't think I care whatsoever.

我想我一点也不关心。

It was mixed, pretty much split.

它是混合的，几乎是分裂的。

Humans are a house divided.

人类是一座分裂的房子。

Rats, they're united.

老鼠们，他们团结起来。

They know what they need to do.

他们知道自己需要做什么。

And that's why they're winning.

这就是他们获胜的原因。

Ike Sriskandarajah, he's a producer on our show.

Ike Sriskandarajah，他是我们节目的制片人。

Act 3, Alberta?

第三幕，阿尔伯塔？

More like "Al-mur-dah" a lot of rats!

更像是“Al-mu-dah”很多老鼠！

All right, so nearly everywhere there are people, there are rats.

好吧，几乎所有有人的地方都有老鼠。

They thrive living off our agriculture and our garbage.

他们依靠我们的农业和垃圾而茁壮成长。

They've followed us wherever we've settled.

无论我们走到哪里，他们都跟着我们。

We followed you?

我们跟踪你了？

Some nerve!

有点神经啊！

Reggie [LAUGHS] Hey, hey, he's the main character.

雷吉[笑]嘿，嘿，他是主角。

[LAUGHS] So you're saying it's more of a partnership.

[笑]所以你是说这更像是一种伙伴关系。

Well, I'm just saying that as people spread around the globe, like rats, most of the rats that are across New York and across America, they started in China and Mongolia, right?

嗯，我只是说，随着人们散布到全球各地，就像老鼠一样，大多数遍布纽约和美国的老鼠，他们都是从中国和蒙古开始的，对吗？

That's right, Mongolia and then got to Europe.

没错，蒙古然后就到了欧洲。

And then we got on the boats and just headed out to everywhere.

然后我们就上了船，前往各个地方。

Everywhere Europeans went, the rats went.

欧洲人走到哪里，老鼠就到哪里。

That's actually the truth.

这确实是事实。

And if you want to find places where there aren't rats, you basically have to go to places where there are no people, like Antarctica.

如果你想找到没有老鼠的地方，你基本上就必须去没有人的地方，比如南极洲。

There are islands here and there.

到处都有岛屿。

But there is one big exception to all this.

但这一切有一个很大的例外。

The largest place of human habitation where there are no rats-- Alberta, Canada.

最大的没有老鼠的人类居住地——加拿大艾伯塔省。

Alberta, Canada, is a province of Canada roughly the size of California and Oregon combined.

加拿大艾伯塔省是加拿大的一个省，面积大约相当于加利福尼亚州和俄勒冈州的总和。

It's bigger than France.

比法国还大。

And it's done something that humans elsewhere have failed at completely-- they have no rats.

它完成了其他地方的人类完全失败的事情——他们没有老鼠。

How is that possible?

这怎么可能？

How did they do it?

他们是怎么做到的？

We are a couple miles west of the Saskatchewan border.

我们位于萨斯喀彻温省边境以西几英里处。

It's kind of like the front line, I guess.

我猜这有点像前线。

And there's no doubt that's where the rats show up.

毫无疑问，这就是老鼠出现的地方。

I'm riding through the Alberta countryside with rat inspector Jory Hoffman.

我和老鼠督察乔里·霍夫曼一起骑马穿过艾伯塔省的乡村。

It's green and mostly flat, open space that, to an American like me, looks very Midwestern, farm after farm.

它是绿色的，大部分是平坦的开放空间，对于像我这样的美国人来说，一个又一个的农场看起来非常中西部。

And the towns near the border are tiny.

而且边境附近的城镇都很小。

Jory's 29, straight-talking guy who volunteers at the fire department and small town events in a T-shirt, jeans, and baseball cap.

乔里 29 岁，说话直率，穿着 T 恤、牛仔裤和棒球帽，在消防部门和小镇活动中担任志愿者。

His feelings about this line of work are uncomplicated.

他对这一行的感情并不复杂。

I like my job.

我喜欢我的工作。

I like the outdoors.

我喜欢户外活动。

So, spray weeds, go look for rats.

所以，喷洒杂草，去找老鼠。

[LAUGHS] Something new every day.

[笑]每天都有新的东西。

I'm an everyday farmer, so I enjoy it.

我是一名普通农民，所以我很享受它。

Rat hunting is just five weeks in the spring and fall for him.

对他来说，春季和秋季捕鼠只需要五个星期。

When he's not doing that, he's working the farm his family's had for five generations near here.

当他不这样做的时候，他就在附近他家已经五代人经营的农场里干活。

He knows most of the farmers here along the border.

他认识边境沿线的大多数农民。

Also in the truck is Karen Wickerson, who runs Alberta's rat control program.

卡车里还有凯伦·威克森 (Karen Wickerson)，她负责阿尔伯塔省的老鼠控制计划。

She explains that Alberta's campaign against rats began decades ago.

她解释说，阿尔伯塔省的灭鼠运动几十年前就开始了。

If you picture for a second, OK, rats arrive on the East Coast of North America and then slowly spread west across the continent, and in Canada, what that means is they infiltrate Quebec province, and then they move west to Ontario province, then Manitoba province.

如果你想象一下，好吧，老鼠到达北美东海岸，然后慢慢向西扩散到整个大陆，在加拿大，这意味着它们渗透到魁北克省，然后向西移动到安大略省，然后是马尼托巴省。

Karen says they reached the Saskatchewan province surprisingly not that long ago, around 1920.

凯伦说，令人惊讶的是，他们不久前（1920 年左右）就到达了萨斯喀彻温省。

And it took them 30 years to move across the province to get to the Alberta-Saskatchewan border.

他们花了30年时间穿过该省到达阿尔伯塔省和萨斯喀彻温省边境。

And essentially, we saw the rats coming.

本质上，我们看到老鼠来了。

And so we're able to mobilize and be ready for when they arrived.

因此，我们能够在他们到来时动员起来并做好准备。

That day came in 1950.

那一天来到了 1950 年。

People in Alberta would cross the border to Saskatchewan and saw that rats were infiltrating farms and eating crops.

艾伯塔省的人们越过边境到达萨斯喀彻温省，看到老鼠渗透到农场并吃掉农作物。

Alberta is a big agricultural province, and Albertans were like, nope, we don't want the rats.

艾伯塔省是一个农业大省，艾伯塔省人的反应是，不，我们不想要老鼠。

And therefore, they were declared a pest so that every Albertan was responsible for controlling them.

因此，它们被宣布为害虫，因此每个艾伯塔省都有责任控制它们。

And they actively went out and educated people as well because people didn't know what rats looked like.

他们也积极出去教育人们，因为人们不知道老鼠长什么样。

They had rats taxidermied and put in all the local agricultural field offices, just so that they could see what a rat actually looked like.

他们对老鼠进行了标本剥制，并将其放入当地所有的农业现场办公室，这样他们就可以看到老鼠的实际样子。

They also decided to set up a rat control zone, kind of a DMZ for rats, where they'd catch the vermin trying to infiltrate the pristine province to ravage their crops.

他们还决定设立一个老鼠控制区，类似于老鼠的非军事区，在那里他们可以捕捉试图渗透到原始省份破坏农作物的害虫。

The zone runs along the border with Saskatchewan, north to south, over 300 miles, 18 miles wide.

该区域沿萨斯喀彻温省边界延伸，从北到南，长 300 多英里，宽 18 英里。

That's where we are right now, in this truck.

这就是我们现在所在的地方，在这辆卡车里。

Twice a year, Karen has 13 people that go out to inspect every farm and every spot where rats might nest.

凯伦每年两次派出 13 个人出去检查每个农场和每个老鼠可能筑巢的地方。

Jory's on his spring inspection today.

乔里今天要进行春季检查。

He turns the truck into a driveway of a farm.

他把卡车变成了农场的车道。

We see four big steel grain bins.

我们看到四个大钢制粮仓。

There's some farm equipment in the yard.

院子里有一些农具。

Just a very suspect area.

只是一个非常可疑的区域。

I've had an infestation at this yard before.

我以前在这个院子里发生过虫害。

So there was hundreds here inside this burning pit.

所以这个燃烧的坑里有数百人。

We climb out of the truck to see if the rats have returned.

我们从卡车上爬下来，看看老鼠是否回来了。

The burning pit is 8 feet or 10 feet deep and the length of a good-sized swimming pool with a tangle of stuff sticking up the farmer wants to set ablaze and get rid of.

燃烧的坑有 8 英尺或 10 英尺深，有一个大游泳池那么长，里面有一堆乱七八糟的东西，农民想点燃并清除掉。

There's dead trees, barbed wire fencing, cow bones.

那里有死树、铁丝网、牛骨头。

Yeah, so what we're doing here, we're just going to walk around this burning pit.

是的，所以我们在这里所做的就是在这个燃烧的坑周围走动。

And we're looking on the edges for holes, rat runs.

我们正在边缘寻找漏洞和老鼠逃窜的地方。

You can tell they use the same track over and over, so you can tell where they've been.

您可以看出他们一遍又一遍地使用同一条轨道，这样您就可以知道他们去过哪里。

Now, Jory, you're climbing down.

现在，乔里，你正在往下爬。

What are you pointing at?

你指着什么？

There's a hole there.

那里有一个洞。

It could be a hole.

这可能是一个洞。

Yep, yeah.

是的，是的。

It could be a rat.

它可能是一只老鼠。

It could be new.

它可能是新的。

Could be a gopher or a weasel or anything.

可能是地鼠或黄鼠狼或任何东西。

We spot dozens of other holes, big and small, but no signs of life.

我们还发现了数十个大大小小的洞，但没有生命迹象。

No rat feces or food by the holes.

洞边没有老鼠粪便或食物。

Jory concludes there are probably no rats here, and we go on to other farms.

乔里得出结论，这里可能没有老鼠，然后我们前往其他农场。

We're usually in and out in just a few minutes, look around some bales of barley or oats, open doors to steel grain bins.

我们通常只需几分钟就可以进出，看看周围的一些大麦或燕麦，打开钢制谷物箱的门。

The fact that we find zero rats, that's typical.

事实上我们发现了零只老鼠，这是很典型的。

Jory has 500 locations he inspects.

Jory 巡视了 500 个地点。

And the number of actual infestations he discovers, like a real nest with dozens or hundreds of rats--

他发现的实际侵扰数量，就像一个真正的巢穴，里面有数十或数百只老鼠——

Once every two years.

每两年一次。

Ira Glass Wow.

艾拉·格拉斯哇。

So it's a bad infestation once every two years, and then how many other times will you find a rat, let's say, in a year?

因此，每两年就会发生一次严重的鼠害，那么一年内您还会发现多少次老鼠？

Like last year, I found one, one solo, and probably none the year before that, maybe none the year before that.

就像去年一样，我发现了一个，一个独奏，可能前年没有，也许前年没有。

There must be a part of you where you kind of wish you hope you find something, so you have something to do.

你内心一定有一部分希望你能找到一些东西，这样你就有事可做。

Yeah.

是的。

So you have to remind yourself sometimes why you're doing it because it can get fairly dry.

所以有时你必须提醒自己为什么要这么做，因为它会变得相当干燥。

I've been to all these yards so many times in my life, it's the same thing every time.

我一生中去过这些院子很多次，每次都是同样的事情。

This is the dirty secret of the world's most effective rat control program-- they have done such a good job that at this point, it's kind of boring.

这是世界上最有效的老鼠控制计划的肮脏秘密——他们做得非常好，但在这一点上，却有点无聊。

Jory and Karen both used that word.

乔里和凯伦都用过这个词。

It's like Jory is Batman, and every night he goes out looking for criminals and never, ever finds them, though I should say it took them a long time to get to this point.

就像乔里是蝙蝠侠一样，每天晚上他都会出去寻找罪犯，但从来没有找到过他们，尽管我应该说他们花了很长时间才达到这一点。

Back in the first years of the program in the 1950s, Karen says, the teams would discover 600 infestations a year in the rat control zone along the border.

凯伦说，早在 20 世纪 50 年代该计划实施的最初几年，研究小组每年就会在边境沿线的老鼠控制区发现 600 起鼠患。

By the 1960s, they still needed 250 pest control officers to fan out and kill rats.

到了 20 世纪 60 年代，他们仍然需要 250 名害虫防治人员来分散灭鼠。

Today, like I said, it's just 13 people.

今天，正如我所说，只有 13 个人。

Instead of 600 infestations a year, it'll be just two to five.

每年的虫害数量不再是 600 次，而是只有 2 到 5 次。

Take that in a second-- just two to five infestations in over 300 miles of border.

想想看，在 300 多英里的边境范围内，只有两到五次感染。

One thing that helps them keep the numbers low-- I thought this was interesting-- was the death of the family farm.

帮助他们保持低数字的一件事——我认为这很有趣——是家庭农场的消亡。

In Canada, just like in the US, so many small farmers have gone out of business over the last half century.

在加拿大，就像在美国一样，过去半个世纪里许多小农破产了。

The remaining farms are really far apart.

剩下的农场相距甚远。

So if rats stow away in feed or supplies and then land on a farm, it's hard for them to migrate to a neighbor.

因此，如果老鼠偷偷藏在饲料或补给品中，然后降落在农场上，它们就很难迁移到邻居那里。

Consolidation of farms hasn't just been bad for small farmers-- it's been bad for rats.

农场的整合不仅对小农不利，对老鼠也不利。

Then, when you find some, it's exciting when you find some.

然后，当你找到一些时，当你找到一些时，会很令人兴奋。

You get a sense of just how monotonous Jory's job usually is when he talks about the last big infestation he cleaned out.

当乔里谈到他上次清理的大型虫害时，你就会感觉到乔里的工作通常是多么单调。

It's especially memorable because instead of using poison, which is the normal way they handle it, the landowner is the one who discovered the rats.

这尤其令人难忘，因为他们没有使用毒药（这是他们处理毒药的正常方式），而是发现了老鼠的地主。

They told Jory, why don't you come out and bring a shotgun?

他们告诉乔里，你为什么不出来带把猎枪呢？

They had me out, and they supplied all the bullets, all the shotgun shells.

他们把我赶了出来，并提供了所有的子弹、所有的霰弹枪子弹。

And I brought my shotgun out and my other three friends, and we'd shoot, stand in a horseshoe.

我拿出猎枪，和其他三个朋友一起射击，站在马蹄铁上。

It's kind of like you're shooting clay pigeons or skeet, if you know what that is.

这有点像你在打飞碟或双向飞碟，如果你知道那是什么的话。

Yeah, and they just go running out of the holes, and you get time to shoot them and then reload.

是的，他们只是从洞里跑出来，你就有时间射击他们，然后重新装弹。

It was a ton of fun.

这真是太有趣了。

Four good friends and four shotguns, and yeah, that was a great day.

四个好朋友和四把猎枪，是的，那是美好的一天。

It was my first infestation, too.

这也是我第一次感染。

Yeah, yeah, I had just started being mentored by my predecessor, so it was pretty exciting that I actually got to go out and see rats on my first day.

是的，是的，我刚刚开始接受前任的指导，所以我第一天就出去看老鼠，这非常令人兴奋。

That was about three years ago.

那是大约三年前的事了。

When Karen talks about what was so great about this, she says a sentence you cannot imagine a New Yorker uttering in the same tone of voice.

当凯伦谈到这件事的伟大之处时，她说了一句你无法想象纽约人会用同样的语气说的话。

I told Jory I was worried that people would hear his glee over shooting rats and think he's a monster.

我告诉乔里，我担心人们会听到他因射杀老鼠而欢呼雀跃的声音，并认为他是一个怪物。

He said it was actually a quicker death than poison.

他说这实际上比中毒更快死。

Probably less painful.

可能不那么痛苦了。

Of course, if you truly want to keep Alberta rat-free, you can't just patrol the border.

当然，如果你真的想让艾伯塔省没有老鼠，你不能只在边境巡逻。

Stray rats can hitch a ride on a truck or a car and land in Calgary or Edmonton or one of the other big cities or towns in the middle of the province.

流浪鼠可以搭上卡车或汽车，降落在卡尔加里或埃德蒙顿或该省中部的其他大城市或城镇之一。

When that happens-- and it does happen-- Albertans are supposed to notify Karen's office.

当这种情况发生时——而且确实发生了——阿尔伯塔人应该通知凯伦的办公室。

There used to be a phone number you could call if you spot a rat, dead or alive, anywhere in the province.

过去，如果您在全省任何地方发现一只老鼠，无论是死的还是活的，都可以拨打一个电话号码。

But Karen streamlined the process by creating an email address, so people can just shoot a photo of the suspect critter and send it to her.

但凯伦通过创建一个电子邮件地址简化了这个过程，这样人们就可以拍摄可疑生物的照片并将其发送给她。

Back in the truck, she pulled out her phone and opened an email folder overfilled with hundreds of rodent pics.

回到卡车上，她拿出手机，打开一个电子邮件文件夹，里面装满了数百张啮齿动物的照片。

I got a couple on Friday, a couple on Thursday.

我周五有一对，周四有一对。

So this photo here, this is pretty typical.

所以这张照片非常典型。

I know right away when I look at it, it is a muskrat.

我一看到它就知道，这是一只麝香鼠。

A muskrat is not a rat.

麝香鼠不是老鼠。

It's bigger, puffier.

它更大，更浮肿。

But Karen says she faces a funny problem from Albertans reporting rats.

但凯伦说，她面临着艾伯塔省报告老鼠的一个有趣问题。

Albertans don't know.

艾伯塔人不知道。

If you've lived in Alberta your whole life, you've never seen a rat.

如果您一生都住在艾伯塔省，您就从未见过老鼠。

So identifying it is pretty hard.

所以识别它是相当困难的。

Last year, of the 408 reports that Karen got, only 27 were rats.

去年，凯伦收到的 408 份报告中，只有 27 份与老鼠有关。

The official stats actually list the others as non-rats.

官方统计数据实际上将其他人列为非老鼠。

Sometimes, of course, people do bring in rats intentionally to the province as pets.

当然，有时人们确实会故意将老鼠引入该省作为宠物。

But in Alberta, that is breaking the law.

但在艾伯塔省，这是违法的。

And now and then, Albertans will drop a dime on rat pet owners, even on people they know.

有时，阿尔伯塔人会向老鼠宠物主人甚至他们认识的人扔一毛钱。

Like, sometimes, it can be a bad breakup.

就像，有时，分手可能是一次糟糕的分手。

[LAUGHS] And-- this has happened.

[笑]而且——这已经发生了。

And yeah, so people have been ratted out to me.

是的，所以人们已经向我出卖了。

And this case was an ex-boyfriend who ratted out his ex.

而这个案子就是一个前男友出卖了他的前任。

She was not happy about this.

她对此很不高兴。

Karen did what she does in these cases.

凯伦做了她在这些情况下所做的事情。

She gives you a week to find your rat a home in another province.

她给你一周的时间在另一个省给你的老鼠找个家。

If you don't succeed, they euthanize your pet.

如果你不成功，他们就会对你的宠物实施安乐死。

Whenever anybody tries to estimate how much money Alberta saves by having no rats, the numbers are in the tens of millions.

每当有人试图估算艾伯塔省因消灭老鼠而节省了多少钱时，数字都是数千万。

That's crops that weren't eaten and infrastructure that wasn't degraded.

那是没有被吃掉的农作物和没有退化的基础设施。

The cost each year to keep rats out of Alberta?

每年将老鼠拒之艾伯塔省的费用是多少？

Shockingly low-- roughly $270,000 American, which is about half the price of one New York City garbage truck.

价格低得惊人——大约 27 万美元，大约是纽约市一辆垃圾车价格的一半。

The low cost and Alberta's success at keeping out rats is partly thanks to some lucky geography, Karen says, namely, they only have to patrol one border.

凯伦说，低成本和艾伯塔省在驱鼠方面的成功部分归功于一些幸运的地理位置，即它们只需要巡逻一个边界。

Rats don't come in from the west because there are mountains.

老鼠不会从西边进来，因为西边有山。

Rats apparently don't cross mountains.

老鼠显然不会翻山越岭。

They don't come up from the US because Karen says it's too far between food sources.

它们不是来自美国，因为凯伦说食物来源之间的距离太远了。

And they won't come down from the north because it's too cold for rats up there.

他们不会从北方下来，因为那里对老鼠来说太冷了。

OK, so the humans of Alberta have banded together in a civic-minded mission that no other members of our species have been as successful at.

好吧，阿尔伯塔省的人类已经团结起来，执行一项具有公民意识的使命，而我们物种中的其他成员都没有取得过如此成功的使命。

I was very interested to find out, is that a big deal to Albertans?

我很想知道这对艾伯塔人来说有什么大不了的吗？

Do they feel a sense of achievement?

他们有成就感吗？

Do they feel a sense of pride about that?

他们对此感到自豪吗？

My producer, Alaa, and I approached Albertans on a drizzly day outside a compound full of animals that they do allow into the province.

在一个下着毛毛雨的日子里，我和我的制作人阿拉在阿尔伯塔省允许进入该省的动物院外接近了他们。

We were at the zoo.

我们当时在动物园。

No, there's no rat exhibit.

不，没有老鼠展览。

We checked.

我们检查了。

And we asked everybody to name the things that make Alberta special and different, wondering how many of them would mention their epic ratlessness.

我们要求每个人说出艾伯塔省的独特之处和与众不同的地方，想知道有多少人会提到他们史诗般的无拘无束。

Here's what they said.

他们是这么说的。

The national parks.

国家公园。

Man 2 Cost of living.

男 2 生活费用。

The scenic routes are much more closer than you think.

风景优美的路线比你想象的要近得多。

Diversity lately.