8: New Year - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #8 | January 3, 1996 8: New Year Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 8 集 | 1996 年 1 月 3 日 8：新年 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Man What's the French electrical supply like over there?
Prologue Man 法国那边的电力供应怎么样？
It's good actually.
其实很好。
All the equipment's great.
所有的设备都很棒。
Well, now that we can look at 1995 from the safe vantage point of 1996-- we're no longer inside 1995-- I want to point out that at this point, no one in American life seems bigger than life.
好吧，现在我们可以从 1996 年的安全角度来审视 1995 年——我们不再处于 1995 年——我想指出，在这一点上，美国生活中似乎没有人比生活更伟大。
Not the president, not Michael Jordan, not Courtney or Madonna.
不是总统，不是迈克尔乔丹，不是考特尼或麦当娜。
And I believe that we witnessed a kind of turning point this past year, when a certain mythic pop group revealed that they're basically just a bunch of aging dullards without any particular magic to them at all.
我相信去年我们见证了一个转折点，当时某个神话流行乐队透露，他们基本上只是一群上了年纪的蠢货，根本没有任何特殊的魔力。
You know the story, right?
你知道这个故事，对吧？
The Beatles came out with these big TV documentaries and rare never-before-heard outtakes from their studio sessions.
披头士乐队推出了这些大型电视纪录片和罕见的前所未闻的录音室片段。
Well, I hold in my hand one of the rare, never-before-heard artifacts spewed forth in the recent deluge.
好吧，我手里拿着一件在最近的洪水中喷涌而出的罕见的、前所未闻的文物。
It is a CD, and it's called Beatles - Rare Photos & Interview CD.
这是一张 CD，名为 Beatles - Rare Photos & Interview CD。
They put the name "CD" in there, just in case you worry whether is this a CD?
他们在那里写了“CD”这个名字，以防万一你担心这是否是一张CD？
Yes, it's a CD.
是的，这是一张CD。
And they've numbered them, because it's such a keepsake.
他们已经给它们编号了，因为这是一个纪念品。
This is number 130,862.
这是号码 130,862。
It's stamped right here on the front.
它就印在正面的此处。
So it's, you know, a collector's item.
所以，你知道，这是一件收藏品。
And we'll leave aside the telling rare photos, which mostly are the Beatles playing on The Ed Sullivan Show and holding press conferences.
我们将把那些有说服力的罕见照片放在一边，这些照片主要是披头士乐队在埃德·沙利文秀上表演和举行新闻发布会。
In the interviews-- that's what I find so interesting-- the Fab Four basically come across as exhausted, irritated.
在采访中——这就是我觉得很有趣的地方——四人组基本上给人的印象是精疲力尽、恼怒。
They prattle on in a mundane way on obvious subjects.
他们以平庸的方式喋喋不休地谈论显而易见的话题。
They are not especially charming or funny.
他们并不特别迷人或有趣。
And they are no more glamorous, really, than you or me.
事实上，他们并不比你或我更有魅力。
They are exactly human scale.
它们完全符合人类的尺度。
They have been rendered in human scale and not one inch bigger.
它们是按照人体比例绘制的，而且大不了一英寸。
Are you going to wear these Hong Kong suits that you've had made?
你会穿你亲手做的这些香港西装吗？
George and I haven't had any made.
乔治和我还没有做过任何事。
Paul's had one.
保罗有一个。
That's all.
就这样。
Now, Paul, you've bought a Chinese suit?
现在，保罗，你买了一套中式西装吗？
Yes, it's true.
是的，这是真的。
Two, I got.
两个，我得到了。
Man Did you?
伙计，你有吗？
How much did you pay for them?
你为他们付了多少钱？
It wasn't very dear.
不是很亲爱。
About 10 quid, I think.
我想大约10英镑。
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, it was great, actually, because somebody said, "You've got to haggle and get the prices down." So some little fellow was selling some ornaments.
哦，实际上这很棒，因为有人说，“你必须讨价还价，把价格降下来。”原来有一个小家伙在卖一些装饰品。
And he wanted $160 for them.
他想要 160 美元给他们。
No, he was selling a watch.
不，他是在卖手表。
That's it.
就是这样。
He wanted 160 Hong Kong dollars for it.
他要价160港元。
So I kept saying to him, "No that's not right.
所以我一直对他说：“不，那是不对的。
Not right.
不对。
$100, that's right." You know?
100 美元，没错。”你知道？
Happy birthday, Ringo.
生日快乐，林戈。
Any good presents?
有什么好礼物吗？
Paul, do you feel that your vacation here in Los Angeles was a success even though you didn't have very much privacy?
保罗，尽管你没有太多的隐私，但你觉得你在洛杉矶的假期是否成功？
Yeah.
是的。
Woman Did you mind the girls on the hill?
女人 你介意山上的女孩吗？
No. Woman Well, what was your most enjoyable part of your vacation?
不。 女士 那么，您假期中最愉快的部分是什么？
Just lazing around.
只是闲逛。
Man What is the sort of stuff they like over there on the Hit Parade?
伙计，Hit Parade 上他们喜欢什么东西？
Uh, wilder stuff, I think.
呃，我想，更疯狂的东西。
We stuck in a wilder number.
我们陷入了一个更狂野的数字。
They go for the Elvis Presley type of stuff, there, do they?
他们喜欢埃尔维斯·普雷斯利（Elvis Presley）类型的东西，是吗？
I mean, they go for the older rock and roll stuff?
我的意思是，他们喜欢老式的摇滚乐？
By the way, from WBEZ in Chicago, this is Your Radio Playhouse.
顺便说一句，这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的“Your Radio Playhouse”。
Today, the year in the life of one neighborhood and a generation in the life of one church.
今天，是一个社区生活中的一年，也是一个教会生活中的一代人。
Unusual stories of this, our American life, as always.
这是不寻常的故事，我们的美国生活一如既往。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Is this music, is this little tape the most irritating thing we have ever put onto the-- OK, I'm just going to stop it-- the most irritating thing we have ever done?
这音乐、这盘小磁带是不是我们放过的最令人恼火的东西——好吧，我要停止它——我们做过的最令人恼火的事情？
All right, enough of that.
好吧，够了。
Well, other radio and television programs have spent much of the last week trying to summarize the past year.
嗯，其他广播和电视节目上周花了很多时间试图总结过去的一年。
We have seen or heard the year in music, the year in films, the year in world events and world politics, the year in fashion.
我们已经看到或听到过音乐年、电影年、世界事件和世界政治年、时尚年。
I'm sure somewhere out there, there's a cheese magazine that's done the year in cheese.
我确信在某个地方，有一本奶酪杂志，专门报道了这一年的奶酪。
You know.
你知道。
It was a big year for Roquefort, or-- I don't even know any cheese names.
对于羊乳干酪来说，今年是重要的一年，或者说——我什至不知道任何奶酪的名字。
It was a big year for something.
对于某些事情来说，这是重要的一年。
And trying to get a sense of the year by means of these big summary year-end stories, it's like trying to get a sense of the United States by flying across the country in a jet and looking out the window.
试图通过这些大总结的年终故事来了解这一年，就像试图通过乘坐喷气式飞机飞越全国并望向窗外来了解美国一样。
You see lots of pretty colors and lots of interesting shapes, but the people look like ants.
你看到很多漂亮的颜色和很多有趣的形状，但人们看起来像蚂蚁。
Well, at this, Your Radio Playhouse , we prefer the camera to move in a little closer for a better look.
好吧，在《你的广播剧场》中，我们希望将摄像机移近一点，以便看得更清楚。
And so now that we have some distance, some objectivity on the past year-- we have, what is it, five days of complete objectivity.
因此，现在我们对过去的一年有了一定的距离和一些客观性——我们有，这是什么，五天的完全客观性。
We've invited Claudia Perez to tell us what the year was like in one small Chicago neighborhood.
我们邀请了克劳迪娅·佩雷斯（Claudia Perez）来告诉我们芝加哥一个小社区这一年的情况。
And Claudia is a high school student.
克劳迪娅是一名高中生。
She's 18 years old.
她今年 18 岁。
And we hooked up with her through a community group called Street-Level Video.
我们通过一个名为 Street-Level Video 的社区团体与她建立了联系。
And usually teenagers come to Street-Level Video to make TV stories about their lives and their neighborhoods.
通常，青少年会使用 Street-Level Video 来制作有关他们的生活和社区的电视故事。
This is Claudia's first radio story.
这是克劳迪娅的第一个广播故事。
When people around the country think of Chicago, most of them do not realize how Mexican this city is.
当全国各地的人们想到芝加哥时，大多数人都没有意识到这座城市有多么墨西哥化。
But Chicago has more Mexicans than any other United States city except for Los Angeles.
但除了洛杉矶之外，芝加哥的墨西哥人数量比美国任何其他城市都多。
It's over 1 million people.
人数超过100万人。
And Little Village is the neighborhood that most new Mexican immigrants come to.
Little Village是大多数墨西哥新移民来到的社区。
Claudia is from this neighborhood and says that the place to go, if you really want to understand what the neighborhood's like, is 26th Street.
克劳迪娅来自这个街区，她说如果你真的想了解这个街区的情况，最好去的地方是 26 街。
She gave me a tour last week.
上周她带我参观了。
Everyone comes to 26th Street.
每个人都来到26街。
It's a pretty busy place.
这是一个非常繁忙的地方。
There's Lalo's, Aguascalientes, and the discount mall.
这里有 Lalo's、Aguascalientes 和折扣购物中心。
There's a parking lot at Church's Chicken where people meet up.
Church's Chicken 有一个停车场，人们在那里集合。
The loto men are on every other corner selling corn, cucumbers, tamales, Mexican antojitos.
乐透人在每个角落出售玉米、黄瓜、玉米粉蒸肉、墨西哥安托吉托。
It's as busy as Michigan Avenue downtown.
它和市中心的密歇根大道一样繁忙。
So there's Rosie's Bakery.
所以就有了罗西面包店。
Claudia Perez [SPEAKING SPANISH], Supermercados, Upe Travel, Rio Grande Music.
Claudia Perez [西班牙语]、Supermercados、Upe Travel、Rio Grande Music。
There's a big archway on 26th Street, near the discount mall.
26 街有一个大拱门，靠近折扣购物中心。
The clock on it, donated by the Mexican government, stopped working a few weeks after it was installed.
上面的时钟是由墨西哥政府捐赠的，安装几周后就停止工作了。
There are also green and white and red lights arranged in the shape of the Mexican flag, but the green and white ones have been burned out for years.
还有绿、白、红的灯排列成墨西哥国旗的形状，但绿、白的已经烧毁多年了。
That little thing right there says, "Bienvenidos a Little Village." That's when you're entering Little Village.
那里的那个小东西写着：“Bienvenidos a Little Village。”这时候你就进入了小村庄。
You know what a lot of gang-bangers do when they pass this thing?
你知道很多黑帮分子经过这个东西时会做什么吗？
They cross themselves.
他们在自己身上画十字。
They'd say [SPEAKING SPANISH] because they're leaving the neighborhood.
他们会说[说西班牙语]，因为他们要离开社区。
Because they're leaving the place that they're safe.
因为他们要离开安全的地方。
In the summer, people come to 26th Street and cruise around when they're bored.
夏天，人们无聊时会来到 26 街闲逛。
You come here, cruise for a while, kill time, see who's around, pick up some liquor, and go to the lake.
你来到这里，游船一会儿，消磨时间，看看周围都有谁，买点酒，就去湖边。
I talked to this girl in the record store about why girls come down here to cruise.
我在唱片店和这个女孩谈论了为什么女孩们会来这里巡游。
There's a lot of cute guys.
有很多可爱的家伙。
And sometimes it's sad because they're gang-bangers.
有时这很令人难过，因为他们是帮派成员。
But they're the finest ones.
但他们是最优秀的。
Even if you don't want to really socialize or hang around with them, at least you'll take a look at them.
即使你不想真正与他们交往或闲逛，至少你会看看他们。
You just get this tingly feeling inside.
你只是感觉到内心有一种刺痛的感觉。
You can't pass on 26th Street without noticing Rossi Brothers.
走过 26 街时，你不可能不注意到罗西兄弟。
They have beautiful furniture, and this is the stuff people in the neighborhood want to buy-- the people with money, and the people without.
他们有漂亮的家具，这是附近的人想买的东西——有钱的人和没钱的人。
And whatever you've heard about the terrible shape of the nation's retail economy, 26th Street is doing fine.
无论您听说过美国零售经济的糟糕状况，第 26 街都表现良好。
According to the Chamber of Commerce in Little Village, in 1995 the number of stores in the neighborhood actually increased 20%.
据小村商会统计，1995年附近的商店数量实际上增加了20%。
The salesmen at Rossi Brothers had a good year.
罗西兄弟的销售人员度过了美好的一年。
This is the most successful year.
今年是最成功的一年。
We've been here 40 years.
我们在这里已经 40 年了。
So why business is better?
那么为什么生意更好呢？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Maybe it's because our fathers are retired and we're younger.
也许是因为我们的父亲退休了，而我们更年轻。
There's a definite transformation in the area.
该地区发生了明显的转变。
All the property's becoming worthwhile.
所有的财产都变得物有所值。
All the empty vacant lots, they're putting new houses there, new construction.
所有空置的空地，他们都在那里建造新房子，新建筑。
So this is becoming a vital part of the city.
因此，这里正在成为城市的重要组成部分。
Over at the discount mall, some stores had a good year.
在折扣购物中心，一些商店今年表现不错。
For some, it was so-so.
对于某些人来说，情况一般。
The discount mall is probably 40 or 50 stores packed into an old department store building.
折扣购物中心可能有 40 或 50 家商店挤在一座旧百货大楼里。
Narrow aisles and things stacked way over your head.
狭窄的过道和堆满了你头顶的东西。
Spanish music and the Virgin of Guadalupe everywhere.
西班牙音乐和瓜达卢佩圣母无处不在。
She was on T-shirts and framed pictures.
她的照片出现在 T 恤和相框里。
She was on a clock surrounded by tiny colored lights.
她站在一个被微小彩灯包围的时钟上。
All the stores basically sell the same things-- things from Mexico, from LA, like the Ben Davis suits, cholo shirts.
所有商店基本上都卖同样的东西——来自墨西哥、来自洛杉矶的东西，比如 Ben Davis 西装、cholo 衬衫。
Down the hall is one of the leather stores.
大厅下面是一间皮革店。
Three girls were just sitting there, eating Chinese food.
三个女孩坐在那里，吃着中餐。
One of them said the most unforgettable thing that happened to her this year was a sale to someone who was Polish.
其中一位女士说，今年发生在她身上最难忘的事情就是被卖给了一个波兰人。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass Usually, she said, the Poles who come to her store look but don't buy.
[说西班牙语] Ira Glass 她说，通常情况下，来到她店里的波兰人只是看看，但不买。
They worry that the Mexican merchants don't give them the best price.
他们担心墨西哥商人不给他们最优惠的价格。
The merchants see their caution differently.
商人对他们的谨慎态度有不同的看法。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass Tacanos.
[西班牙语] Ira Glass Tacanos。
She's saying they're cheap.
她说这些东西很便宜。
Over the years, so many Mexicans have done well in Chicago that lots of them have moved away from this neighborhood to the suburbs.
多年来，许多墨西哥人在芝加哥过得很好，以至于他们中的许多人已经从这个社区搬到了郊区。
This woman said 80% of her customers this year were Mexicans who've moved to the suburbs but who have come back here to shop.
这位女士说，今年她的顾客中有 80% 是搬到郊区但又回到这里购物的墨西哥人。
They don't forget where they come from.
他们不会忘记自己来自哪里。
In the hallway, we found this man from the suburbs.
在走廊里，我们找到了这个来自郊区的男人。
He says he comes here to get what the Mexicano wears.
他说他来这里是为了买墨西哥人穿的衣服。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Claudia Perez He says it feels like you're in Mexico here.
[说西班牙语]克劳迪娅·佩雷斯（Claudia Perez）他说感觉就像在墨西哥一样。
He comes here to see the paisanos.
他来这里是为了看派萨诺人。
He came here with his friends so they could get to know Little Village.
他和他的朋友来到这里，以便他们能够了解小村庄。
1995 was fine for him, he said.
他说，1995 年对他来说很好。
He finally got a stable job in a restaurant.
他终于在一家餐馆找到了一份稳定的工作。
He doesn't have to be jumping from factory to factory.
他不必从一个工厂跳到另一个工厂。
Over near the pet store, the staff of CJ's Clothing is almost all teenagers.
宠物店附近，CJ's Clothing的工作人员几乎都是青少年。
One boy is 17, originally from Mexico, from Michoacan.
一名 17 岁男孩来自墨西哥米却肯州。
He works but doesn't go to school.
他工作但不上学。
This year he met this girl in Mexico who lived in Chicago.
今年他在墨西哥遇到了这个住在芝加哥的女孩。
He liked her and followed her over here.
他喜欢她，就跟着她来这里。
Eventually, it didn't work.
最终，还是没有成功。
But he stayed here, and now he is making money to help out his family.
但他留在这里，现在他正在赚钱养家糊口。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Claudia Perez He says he misses his family in Mexico, but if he was there, he says, he'd just be doing drugs instead of making money to help his family.
[西班牙语]克劳迪娅·佩雷斯（Claudia Perez） 他说他想念在墨西哥的家人，但他说，如果他在那里，他只会吸毒，而不是赚钱来帮助家人。
His little cousin Ricardo is his interpreter.
他的小表弟里卡多是他的翻译。
He translates everything for him.
他为他翻译一切。
Ricardo had a couple of exciting moments in 1995, like when he helped the police catch a thief at the discount mall.
里卡多在 1995 年经历了一些激动人心的时刻，比如他帮助警察在折扣商场抓获小偷。
The officers were just standing around watching videos on a store TV, when Ricardo told them that a lady was stealing one of those club things you use to protect your car.
当里卡多告诉他们，一位女士正在偷你用来保护汽车的俱乐部物品时，警察们正站在周围观看商店电视上的视频。
But overall, Ricardo summed up 1995 in one word.
但总的来说，里卡多用一个词总结了 1995 年。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Boring.
无聊的。
Claudia Perez Boring?
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 无聊吗？
Why has it been boring?
为什么一直很无聊？
My brother.
我的兄弟。
He bores me.
他让我厌烦。
When he goes to places, he doesn't take me anywhere.
当他去某个地方时，他不会带我去任何地方。
He doesn't take me with him.
他不带我一起去。
And he's older than you?
而且他比你大？
Ricardo I'm nine and he's 15.
里卡多，我九岁，他 15 岁。
But when he was 13, would he take you with him?
但当他13岁的时候，他会带你一起去吗？
Was there a time when he would take you all the time?
有没有那么一段时间，他会一直陪着你？
Nowhere.
无处。
Claudia Perez Miguel is a salesperson at CJ's.
Claudia Perez Miguel 是 CJ's 的销售人员。
When I saw him, I knew for sure that he would speak English.
当我看到他时，我确信他会说英语。
I could just tell.
我只能说。
He's 19, has a goatee, is tall, [INAUDIBLE] complexion.
他 19 岁，留着山羊胡，很高，[听不清] 肤色。
I asked him how his year was.
我问他这一年过得怎么样。
This year's been my best year so far.
今年是我迄今为止最好的一年。
Maybe meeting some more girls, for example.
例如，也许会遇到更多的女孩。
That's about it.
就是这样。
He had a wish for 1996.
他对1996年有一个愿望。
Miguel Maybe hook up with some girl that I want right now.
米格尔 也许现在就可以勾搭一些我想要的女孩。
No names right now.
现在还没有名字。
Does she know yet that you want to go out with her?
她知道你想和她出去吗？
Yeah, she knows.
是的，她知道。
Ira Glass When's the first date going to happen?
Ira Glass 第一次约会什么时候发生？
How old is she?
她年纪多大？
Miguel She's like 18, 17.
米格尔 她大概18、17岁。
Not at all.
一点也不。
I guess she's got one of those strict parents.
我猜她有一位严厉的父母。
We talk to Miguel for a while.
我们和米格尔聊了一会儿。
In '96, he'll graduate from DeVry to become an electronic technician.
96 年，他将从 DeVry 毕业，成为一名电子技术员。
He doesn't party.
他不参加派对。
He doesn't like trouble in the street.
他不喜欢在街上惹麻烦。
And before long, he asks Claudia for her phone number.
不久之后，他向克劳迪娅要了她的电话号码。
Give me your number too.
把你的号码也给我吧。
Why don't you give me your number, and I'll call you too.
你为什么不给我你的电话号码，我也给你打电话。
And when you're famous, I'll be famous with you too.
当你出名的时候，我也会和你一起出名。
All right.
好的。
I'll give you-- this is my pager number.
我会给你——这是我的寻呼机号码。
I told him I wanted to be a fashion designer and a writer someday, and he said--
我告诉他我有一天想成为一名时装设计师和作家，他说——
About me, though, right?
不过，关于我，对吧？
Ira Glass We headed over to the cosmetics counter.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我们前往化妆品柜台。
It appeared to this correspondent that Miguel wanted Claudia's phone number for a date.
在记者看来，米格尔想要克劳迪娅的电话号码以便约会。
I thought he just wanted it for business.
我以为他只是想做生意。
He is definitely calling you.
他肯定是在给你打电话。
Claudia Perez Well, I don't know.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 嗯，我不知道。
We'll see if he calls.
我们看看他是否会打电话。
Next, we went to Los Comales.
接下来，我们前往洛斯科马莱斯。
It's open 24 hours.
24 小时开放。
It's the place where everyone goes when they get a hunger attack.
这是每个人饥饿时都会去的地方。
I usually stop by at 12:00 or 1:00 in the morning.
我通常在凌晨 12:00 或 1:00 过来。
They have good tortas, the best tortas.
他们有很好的玉米饼，最好的玉米饼。
I won't eat tortas from anywhere else.
我不会吃其他地方的玉米饼。
If I'm on a diet, I'll just drink a licuado de fresa instead of a torta.
如果我在节食，我只会喝 licuado de fresa 而不是 torta。
It's a noisy, friendly place with bright orange booths, a loud jukebox and the blenders going nearly nonstop, making licuados.
这是一个喧闹、友好的地方，有明亮的橙色摊位、大声的自动点唱机和几乎不间断地制作利瓜多的搅拌机。
At one table was a guy with short hair and a big black and white Adidas jacket sitting with his girlfriend.
一张桌子上坐着一个短发男人，穿着一件黑白相间的阿迪达斯大夹克，和他的女朋友坐在一起。
He had a bad year.
他这一年过得很糟糕。
It ain't been good, man.
这可不太好，伙计。
I got fired from my job.
我被解雇了。
Why'd you get fired?
你为什么被解雇？
Man Because I lied on my application.
伙计，因为我在申请中撒了谎。
Because when they ask you, have you been convicted of felonies, I put no. And later on--
因为当他们问你是否曾犯过重罪时，我说没有。然后后来——
They found out.
他们发现了。
Man Yeah.
男人 是啊。
It's because somebody went into the office and they kind of told on me or something.
这是因为有人走进办公室，他们告发了我什么的。
They wanted you to get fired, I think.
我想他们希望你被解雇。
Can you say something besides losing your job that you want to forget, that happened to you this year?
除了失去工作之外，你还能说一些今年发生在你身上的事情让你想忘记吗？
Did it help you in any way, being in jail?
入狱对你有什么帮助吗？
Like, straighten up your head?
比如，把头伸直？
He was quiet for a second.
他沉默了一会儿。
His girlfriend shook her head, no.
女友摇头，没有。
It didn't help you?
对你没有帮助吗？
Are you still stubborn?
你还固执吗？
Right.
正确的。
The jail ain't for getting you straight.
监狱不是为了让你改正过来的。
It just makes you worse.
它只会让你变得更糟。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I've still got my cases pending.
我的案件仍然悬而未决。
A girl sitting with her friends also had a pretty bad year.
一个和朋友坐在一起的女孩也度过了相当糟糕的一年。
Part of it was that she was going to Mexico to go visit her grandfather for the first time, and she received a call from some relatives informing her that her grandfather had been killed.
部分原因是她第一次去墨西哥看望她的祖父，她接到一些亲戚的电话，通知她祖父被杀了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Claudia Perez She said it will always stay with her, deep down inside, because she never got the chance to meet her grandfather.
[西班牙语] 克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 (Claudia Perez) 她说，这件事将永远伴随着她，在内心深处，因为她从未有机会见到她的祖父。
But she said this year has made her even stronger.
但她说，今年让她变得更加坚强。
Now she knows that she has to stay in school and continue her education.
现在她知道她必须留在学校继续学业。
Now she's working.
现在她正在工作。
She says she's learned you've got to fight for what you want in this life.
她说她知道你必须为这一生想要的东西而奋斗。
She knows that it's not going to fall from the sky.
她知道它不会从天上掉下来。
The crime rate, it's low.
犯罪率，很低。
It's a lot lower.
低很多。
As far as 26th Street, the merchants, there's hardly any robberies and very few thefts.
就26街的商铺而言，几乎没有抢劫案，盗窃案也很少。
The gang situations, that's being curbed.
帮派的情况正在得到遏制。
We found two of the policemen who patrol 26th Street standing at a graphic design office.
我们发现两名在 26 街巡逻的警察站在一家平面设计办公室里。
They said community policing is one of the main reasons crime rates are going down here.
他们说，社区治安是这里犯罪率下降的主要原因之一。
Now people are more willing to sign complaints and appear in court.
现在人们更愿意签署申诉并出庭。
It didn't used to be that way.
过去不是这样的。
When I asked this cop to tell us about the most dramatic thing that happened to him this year, his partner said, "What about that jewelry store robbery?"
当我让这位警察告诉我们今年发生在他身上的最戏剧性的事情时，他的搭档说：“那起珠宝店抢劫案呢？”
Well, I don't think that's dramatic.
嗯，我不认为这有什么戏剧性。
I've seen robberies.
我见过抢劫。
That was just a typical robbery.
这只是一起典型的抢劫案。
I mean, it could be dramatic to somebody else, or the person that got robbed.
我的意思是，这对其他人或被抢劫的人来说可能是戏剧性的。
But to me, it's just an everyday occurrence for me.
但对我来说，这只是我每天都会发生的事情。
So it doesn't phase me anymore.
所以它不再对我进行阶段性的影响。
Or as far as people getting shot and killed.
或者说有人被枪杀。
I'm used to it.
我已经习惯了。
But something did happen to him that was more dramatic than a robbery or a shooting.
但他身上确实发生了比抢劫或枪击更戏剧性的事情。
Just dramatic-- I bought a brand-new home.
戏剧性的是——我买了一套全新的房子。
Well, I guess it's not dramatic, but--
嗯，我想这并不戏剧性，但是——
It's good.
很好。
That's my dream, is to have my own house.
这是我的梦想，就是拥有自己的房子。
I never had a house.
我从来没有过房子。
I always lived in apartments.
我一直住在公寓里。
That's nice.
那很好。
Well, I guess, hard work, and-- it's on the Southwest side of Chicago.
嗯，我想，努力工作，而且——它位于芝加哥的西南侧。
And it's a split-level home, like a suburban-type home.
这是一个错层式的住宅，就像郊区的住宅一样。
It's a nice home, side drive, four bedrooms, two-and-a-half-car garage.
这是一个漂亮的家，侧车道，四间卧室，两车半车库。
Expensive.
昂贵的。
I have a lot of police officer friends that live in that neighborhood.
我有很多警察朋友住在那个街区。
So I guess that's what made me buy over there.
所以我想这就是我在那里买东西的原因。
For all the stories you hear about how terrible life is in poor, inner-city neighborhoods, one of the most striking things about 26th Street is how many people told us they'd had a really good year last year.
尽管您听说过很多有关市中心贫困社区的生活有多么糟糕的故事，但第 26 街最引人注目的事情之一是有多少人告诉我们他们去年过得非常好。
We met this young couple who had a baby and a two-year-old daughter.
我们遇到了这对年轻夫妇，他们有一个婴儿和一个两岁的女儿。
I asked if I could interview the husband, because he was the one carrying the baby.
我问是否可以采访这位丈夫，因为他是带着孩子的人。
So he turns around and asks his wife if it was OK with her.
于是他转过身来问他的妻子是否同意。
And she said yes.
她说是的。
I just totally fell in love with that.
我完全爱上了它。
When we asked him what was so good about this past year, he said:
当我们问他去年有什么好事时，他说：
Everything.
一切。
My daughter's been growing happily and healthy.
我的女儿一直健康快乐地成长。
Real healthy.
真正健康。
Steady growing.
稳步增长。
Everything's been nice.
一切都很好。
We've got nice blessings this year, you know.
你知道，今年我们得到了很好的祝福。
We've been together for a long time.
我们已经在一起很长时间了。
We've already been together for four years.
我们已经在一起四年了。
And they say they don't last, young couples, so we've really been lasting together.
他们说他们不会长久，年轻的情侣，所以我们真的一直在一起。
So that's real memorable.
所以这真是令人难忘。
He's 22 and she's 21, Mario and Alice Ramirez.
马里奥·拉米雷斯和爱丽丝·拉米雷斯，他 22 岁，她 21 岁。
Like any parents, some of their biggest events of 1995 involved their kids.
和所有父母一样，1995 年他们的一些重大事件也涉及到他们的孩子。
For example:
例如：
There are bad words she says.
她有说脏话的。
That's real cute.
真是可爱啊。
One of those bad words she says, they just come out.
她说的那些脏话之一，就直接说出来了。
It's bad.
这很糟糕。
I don't want to say it.
我不想说。
When did she say it?
她什么时候说的？
Mario Ramirez Oh, yesterday.
马里奥·拉米雷斯 哦，昨天。
Yesterday, right?
昨天，对吗？
Tell us all the story.
告诉我们所有的故事。
Where were you guys?
你们在哪里？
Well, we're all sitting down, and she don't really talk that much, and all of a sudden she just came out.
好吧，我们都坐下来了，她也没怎么说话，突然就出来了。
She got mad at me and called me a real bad word.
她生我的气，骂我脏话。
She just goes, hey, you-- and everyone started laughing, so it was nice.
她只是说，嘿，你——然后每个人都开始笑，所以这很好。
Spanish.
西班牙语。
No, it was in English actually.
不，实际上是英文的。
I want to know.
我想知道。
Mario Ramirez [SPEAKING SPANISH]
马里奥·拉米雷斯 [西班牙语]
Pussy.
猫。
She's just about to turn three, and this happened at Christmas dinner.
她即将满三岁，这发生在圣诞晚餐上。
You know, Mexican families are big.
你知道，墨西哥家庭很大。
They were all there, and they all laughed.
他们都在那里，他们都笑了。
When we asked about '96, Mario said next year was going to be nicer.
当我们问及 96 年时，马里奥说明年会更好。
Every year will be nicer, he said.
他说，每一年都会更好。
He held the baby, his wife took her two-year-old daughter's hand, and they walked away down 26th Street in the snow.
他抱着孩子，妻子牵着两岁女儿的手，他们在雪地里沿着 26 街走开。
Yes?
是的？
Ira Glass We should explain what music this is.
Ira Glass 我们应该解释一下这是什么音乐。
Well, this is a tape we bought at the discount mall.
嗯，这是我们在折扣商场买的磁带。
It's called Tracks are for Kids.
它的名字叫《Tracks are for Kids》。
The box of it looks like the cereal box, Trix are for kids, with the little bunny.
它的盒子看起来像麦片盒，Trix是给孩子的，有小兔子。
It's a mix tape.
这是一张混音带。
The song here is just to give you a little taste of what the Latinos in the South Side and everywhere else listen to.
这里的歌曲只是为了让您稍微了解南区和其他地方的拉丁裔人所听的内容。
OK, doesn't this music sound more vital, more alive, than the certain music of a certain group of aging baby-boom '60s era-- you, you, beloved listener, you be the judge.
好吧，这音乐听起来是不是比 60 年代婴儿潮时代某个老龄化群体的某些音乐更有活力、更有活力——你，你，亲爱的听众，你来评判吧。
[MUSIC -- "ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE" BY THE BEATLES]
[音乐——甲壳虫乐队的“ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE”]
John and Paul, you recently produced a record by the Silkie.
约翰和保罗，你们最近制作了一张乌骨鸡唱片。
No. Man Do you want to buy anything in Australia?
不，伙计，你想在澳大利亚买什么东西吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Man Do you ever have your hair cut?
男人，你剪过头发吗？
Of course.
当然。
Man Do you ever get irritated because you can't get above the noise of the people screaming at the shows?
伙计，你是否曾经因为无法超越演出中人们的尖叫声而感到恼火？
No. Man Have you met any interesting American girls?
没有。哥们，你遇到过什么有趣的美国女孩吗？
Not yet.
还没有。
Man What do you think of the police protection you've been receiving here in the city?
伙计，你觉得你在城里受到的警察保护怎么样？
It's marvelous.
太棒了。
Man Are the crowds as large as you expected?
伙计，人群有你想象的那么大吗？
No. Act Two: Act Two Ira Glass Well, my New Year's resolution this past New Year's was to finish this next story and finally get it on the radio.
第二幕：第二幕 Ira Glass 嗯，我去年的新年决心是完成下一个故事并最终将其放在广播中。
It's a story that I began over a year ago, and it involved many, many other people.
这是我一年多前开始的一个故事，它涉及很多很多其他人。
It's one of these stories that actually involved an entire church.
这是实际上涉及整个教堂的故事之一。
And for 10 months, I have not been able to walk down 57th Street without looking over my shoulder in fear that I'm going to run into one of these people, because I had not finished the story.
十个月以来，我走在第 57 街时都必须回头张望，生怕遇到这些人，因为我还没有完成这个故事。
But now I am proud to say, the story, it is here.
但现在我可以自豪地说，故事，就在这里。
It is here, and it is here to stay.
它就在这里，而且会一直存在。
Though I guess that doesn't really mean anything when you say it on the radio.
尽管我猜当你在广播中说这句话时，这并没有什么实际意义。
Well, at least it's here, and I will be set free.
好吧，至少它在这里，我将获得自由。
The story does involve this entire church, a historic church here in Chicago.
这个故事确实涉及整个教堂，芝加哥的一座历史悠久的教堂。
And we'll get to that part.
我们将讨论这部分。
But first we have to talk about how it begins, because it begins with this woman named Karen Hutt.
但首先我们必须谈谈它是如何开始的，因为它是从这个名叫凯伦·赫特的女人开始的。
And Karen Hutt is normally the director of religious education at this church.
凯伦·赫特通常是这座教堂的宗教教育主任。
It's the First Unitarian Church of Chicago.
这是芝加哥第一一神论教堂。
And one Sunday morning, a while back, I'll admit, when the senior minister was away, Karen Hutt did a guest sermon.
我承认，不久前的一个周日早上，当高级部长不在时，凯伦·赫特做了一场客座布道。
And she talked about a very unusual experience that she had as a child.
她谈到了她小时候的一次非常不寻常的经历。
Karen Hutt was the first black child to integrate the Philadelphia public schools.
凯伦·赫特是第一个融入费城公立学校的黑人孩子。
This was in the 1960s.
那是在 20 世纪 60 年代。
So first of all, for a moment, let's set our minds back away from the current debate over quotas and overturning affirmative action.
首先，让我们暂时把注意力从当前关于配额和推翻平权行动的争论上移开。
Let's turn our minds back now to a more hopeful moment in American race relations.
现在让我们回过头来看看美国种族关系中一个更有希望的时刻。
And in her sermon, she talked about what went right and what went wrong in this thing that she witnessed herself.
在她的布道中，她谈到了她亲眼所见的这件事中哪些是正确的，哪些是错误的。
And what happened was that her family moved to a white, Jewish neighborhood.
发生的事情是，她的家人搬到了一个白人犹太社区。
And she enrolled in the white public school there.
她就读于那里的白人公立学校。
We were a part of the experiment.
我们是实验的一部分。
There were about three black families, and lots of good will and excitement about this experiment.
大约有三个黑人家庭，对这个实验充满了善意和兴奋。
So I talked about my friend Randy Goldstein in the sermon, about how she and I were really good friends, and our parents got to know each other real well.
所以我在讲道中谈到了我的朋友兰迪·戈德斯坦，谈到她和我是如何成为真正的好朋友，以及我们的父母如何彼此非常了解。
And they were learning how to play pinochle, and we were learning how to play Mah Jongg and eating matzo ball soup, and they were eating collard greens.
他们正在学习如何玩皮纳克尔，我们正在学习如何打麻将和吃无酵球汤，他们正在吃羽衣甘蓝。
So we were this perfect notion of how we were going to all live together in multicultural heaven.
因此，我们对如何在多元文化的天堂中共同生活有一个完美的想法。
But then one day, after about the fifth or sixth, or maybe it was the ninth or tenth black family moved into the neighborhood, Randy said she was moving.
但有一天，大约第五个或第六个，或者可能是第九个或第十个黑人家庭搬进附近后，兰迪说她要搬家了。
And I said, why are you moving, Randy?
我说，你为什么要搬家，兰迪？
And she says, well, my mother says it's getting a little dark around here.
她说，嗯，我妈妈说这里有点黑了。
So I realized that she wasn't really talking about an eclipse.
所以我意识到她并不是真的在谈论日食。
It was probably about me and my color and my neighbors.
这可能是关于我、我的肤色和我的邻居。
Karen, let me ask you.
凯伦，我问你。
Did you feel like you were a guinea pig?
你有没有觉得自己是一只小白鼠？
Or did you feel like you were able to have a normal life?
或者你觉得你能够过正常的生活吗？
Well, I know in the very beginning when we moved to this neighborhood-- which I was really resisting, because all my friends were the other neighborhood, the old neighborhood, not the new neighborhood.
嗯，我知道一开始我们搬到这个社区时——我真的很抗拒，因为我所有的朋友都是另一个社区，老社区，而不是新社区。
And the new neighborhood was something for my father to tell his friends about.
我父亲向他的朋友们介绍了这个新社区。
I'd hear him on the phone and he'd be talking to his friends and saying, yeah, man, we're the only ones out here.
我会听到他在打电话，他会和他的朋友们聊天并说，是的，伙计，我们是这里唯一的人。
And I'd listen to him like, the only ones out where?
我会听他说话，就像，唯一的人在哪里？
What was this all about for him?
这对他来说到底是为了什么？
So clearly, for my parents, it was a big move to a really big house and a lot of prestige and all this kind of thing.
很明显，对于我的父母来说，搬进一栋大房子、享有很高的声望等等都是一次重大的举动。
But for me, I did feel like an experiment, because people I didn't know in the neighborhood would stop and smile at me, and say they're glad that I'm there, and do all these kinds of things.
但对我来说，我确实感觉像是一个实验，因为附近我不认识的人会停下来对我微笑，说他们很高兴我在那里，并做所有这些事情。
Even sometimes giving out little candies to us, like we were some kind of prize.
甚至有时还会给我们发小糖果，就像我们是某种奖品一样。
But that all made me always feel a little uncomfortable, because I could never trust that it was going to be real.
但这一切让我总是感到有点不舒服，因为我永远无法相信这会是真的。
Because as soon as I would get comfortable and trust, it would be shattered by a comment or a stare or a glare or people following us around or saying things about us.
因为一旦我感到舒服和信任，它就会被评论、凝视或怒视或人们跟踪我们或谈论我们的事情所粉碎。
But all that sort of changed when the numbers changed.
但当数字发生变化时，一切都发生了变化。
And that's what really made a big difference.
这才是真正产生重大影响的原因。
It's interesting how few the numbers have to be for it to change.
有趣的是，只需很少的数字就能改变它。
How many African-American families had moved in before the total environment change.
在整个环境发生变化之前，有多少非裔美国家庭搬进来了。
Well, it was maybe 50%.
嗯，可能是 50%。
When it was 50%.
当是50%的时候。
Integration for a lot of white people-- I found it to be like one black family in the whole neighborhood, that's integration.
对于很多白人来说，融合——我发现这就像整个社区的一个黑人家庭，这就是融合。
But for African-Americans, we like the idea of 50-50.
但对于非裔美国人来说，我们喜欢 50-50 的想法。
That seemed about right.
这似乎是对的。
So when it got to be 50-50, the integration dream was dashed.
因此，当比例达到 50-50 时，整合梦想就破灭了。
It was just gone.
它就这样消失了。
Because whites fled.
因为白人逃跑了。
Karen Hutt Whites fled.
凯伦·赫特·怀特斯逃跑了。
And we have to also realize that the real estate agents did a lot to contribute to this.
我们还必须认识到，房地产经纪人为此做出了很多贡献。
It wasn't just people leaving.
离开的不仅仅是人们。
They were actually offered a lot.
他们实际上得到了很多。
But the thing that I found curious was that all the blacks that were moving in had much more material wealth or better jobs.
但我感到好奇的是，所有搬进来的黑人都拥有更多的物质财富或更好的工作。
Like, most of the Jewish people in the neighborhood were teachers and social workers, and our families were politicians and judges and lawyers and doctors.
就像，附近的大多数犹太人都是教师和社会工作者，而我们的家人是政治家、法官、律师和医生。
And we found it rather curious that they wouldn't want to live with us.
我们发现很奇怪他们不愿意和我们住在一起。
Because we knew it wasn't economic at that point.
因为我们知道当时这并不经济。
Did you ever feel angry at your parents for putting you in this situation?
你是否曾经因为父母把你置于这样的境地而感到愤怒？
Yeah, I was very angry about it.
是的，我对此非常生气。
But I'm really proud about it now, because it was an exciting thing to be a part of.
但我现在对此感到非常自豪，因为成为其中的一员是一件令人兴奋的事情。
I'm smarter for it, I think.
我想我在这方面比较聪明。
But I was angry at the time.
但我当时很生气。
Angry in what terms?
生气在什么方面？
Karen Hutt I was angry about losing the continuity of a community that I knew loved me.
Karen Hutt 我对失去一个我知道爱我的社区的连续性感到愤怒。
Did you feel used?
你有被利用的感觉吗？
Karen Hutt I felt used, maybe, later because my father was a politician.
凯伦·赫特（Karen Hutt） 我后来觉得自己被利用了，也许是因为我父亲是一名政治家。
So I later saw all these pictures in the paper.
所以我后来在报纸上看到了所有这些图片。
You know, "First Black Integrates the School." The newspaper coming, taking pictures of the American Negro family that's integration-bound.
你知道，“第一个黑人整合了学校。”报纸来了，拍摄了即将融入社会的美国黑人家庭的照片。
But other than the political ramifications, I don't think I felt used.
但除了政治影响之外，我不认为自己被利用了。
Because you have to realize, too, my parents had a different kind of dream.
因为你也必须意识到，我的父母有一个不同的梦想。
They grew up in a fully segregated society, absolute segregation.
他们在一个完全隔离的社会中长大，绝对的隔离。
We were born into this revolution and to this dream and this hope.
我们诞生于这场革命、这个梦想和这个希望。
And they wanted to realize it in whatever way they could.
他们想以任何可能的方式实现这一目标。
So I don't think I could even look back and find fault with any of their choices, because they were basically a product of all of those times.
所以我认为我什至不能回顾并挑剔他们的任何选择，因为它们基本上是所有那些时代的产物。
So Karen Hutt told her church about the good things and the bad in her experience as a racial pioneer.
因此，凯伦·赫特向她的教会讲述了她作为种族先驱的经历中的好处和坏处。
And the reaction she got from the congregation at the First Unitarian Church was sort of surprising.
她从第一一神论教堂的会众那里得到的反应有点令人惊讶。
Coming up, their reaction and their stories.
接下来，他们的反应和他们的故事。
It's Your Radio Playhouse.
这是您的广播剧场。
[MUSIC -- "DRIVE MY CAR" BY THE BEATLES]
[音乐——披头士乐队的《驾驶我的车》]
It's Your Radio Playhouse.
这是您的广播剧场。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
So after Karen Hutt gave a sermon about her experience as the first black child to integrate the Philadelphia public schools, lots of members of the congregation came to her and said, well, I was the first black person in this neighborhood, or I was the first African-American to integrate this Girl Scout camp, or I was the first African-American in this department at the University of Chicago.
因此，在凯伦·赫特（Karen Hutt）就她作为第一个融入费城公立学校的第一个黑人孩子的经历进行布道后，很多会众来找她说，好吧，我是这个社区的第一个黑人，或者我是第一个融入这个女童子军营地的非裔美国人，或者我是芝加哥大学这个系的第一个非裔美国人。
And Karen Hutt came to believe that for middle-class blacks, the story of the last 30 years is the story that begins with the sentence, I was the first black who.
凯伦·赫特 (Karen Hutt) 开始相信，对于中产阶级黑人来说，过去 30 年的故事就是以“我是第一个黑人”这句话开头的故事。
And so many stories were coming forward.
如此多的故事正在涌现。
First Unitarian is this integrated church and was a hotbed of political activism.
第一一神论教会是一个综合性教会，也是政治活动主义的温床。
In the '60s and the '70s, they hid Black Panthers.
在六十年代和七十年代，他们隐藏了黑豹党。
Old Mayor Daley would send his Red Squad to wait outside the church in cars.
老市长戴利会派他的红队开着车在教堂外等候。
And lots of people at the First Unitarian Church had been involved in various integration struggles.
第一一神论教会的很多人都参与了各种融合斗争。
And after Karen Hutt's sermon, they talked about doing an oral history of their experiences with integration.
在凯伦·赫特（Karen Hutt）的布道之后，他们谈到了口述他们的融合经历。
But they hadn't gotten around to it, and so we lent them a tape recorder, we at this radio show.
但他们还没有抽出时间，所以我们借给他们一台录音机，我们在这个广播节目中。
And we asked them to do their oral history for our program.
我们要求他们为我们的节目做口述历史。
Karen Hutt did the interviews with a young woman named Laura Finnegan.
凯伦·赫特采访了一位名叫劳拉·芬尼根的年轻女性。
And Laura had the opposite experience Karen had as a child.
劳拉（Laura）的经历与凯伦（Karen）小时候的经历相反。
Or, well, maybe it's the same experience.
或者，好吧，也许这是同样的经历。
It depends how you see this.
这取决于你如何看待这一点。
It was either the opposite experience or it was exactly the same experience.
这要么是相反的经历，要么是完全相同的经历。
For much of her childhood, Laura's family was one of the few white families in South Shore, on the south side of Chicago.
在她童年的大部分时间里，劳拉的家庭都是芝加哥南部南岸为数不多的白人家庭之一。
And by the time she was in eighth grade, she was one of two white children in her grade.
当她上八年级时，她是同年级的两个白人孩子之一。
And she describes it as just as just a confusing time.
她形容这只是一段令人困惑的时期。
She describes it as just a confusing time.
她形容这只是一段令人困惑的时期。
You do the grammar of that sentence.
你做那个句子的语法。
She says that it was just as confusing for her as it was for Karen Hutt.
她说这对她来说和凯伦·赫特一样令人困惑。
And sometimes she wished she were black so she could fit in better.
有时她希望自己是黑人，这样她就能更好地融入社会。
It really created a lot of questions of who she was and who she should be, and how she should get along with people.
这确实引发了很多关于她是谁、她应该是谁、以及她应该如何与人相处的问题。
When the violence in the neighborhood started to increase somewhat, we had been robbed at gunpoint.
当附近的暴力事件开始有所增加时，我们就遭到了持枪抢劫。
And it was a terrifying experience for me.
这对我来说是一次可怕的经历。
And we would ask my family, are we going to move?
我们会问我的家人，我们要搬家吗？
And they would say, well, yeah, maybe we'll move.
他们会说，好吧，也许我们会搬家。
And the feeling that was conveyed was, well, if we move, then we're betraying this ideal of integration.
所传达的感觉是，如果我们搬家，那么我们就背叛了这种一体化的理想。
And so at the time, I felt like, well, what is that ideal, and why are we here when I don't feel comfortable here all the time?
所以当时我觉得，嗯，理想是什么？当我一直在这里感觉不舒服时，为什么我们还在这里？
Although I think on other levels, that idea that we were betraying the integration was also just an excuse for other personal reasons for why we were staying in the neighborhood.
尽管我认为在其他层面上，我们背叛融合的想法也只是我们留在附近的其他个人原因的借口。
Well, let's get to some of the tape that the two of you collected.
好吧，让我们来看看你们两个收集的一些磁带。
One of the things that's interesting in the material that you've played me before coming in here is that generally, when we hear stories about being the first person to integrate a school or a neighborhood or a job situation, we're used to hearing horror stories.
在你来这里之前给我播放的材料中，有趣的一件事是，一般来说，当我们听到关于成为第一个融入学校、社区或工作情况的人的故事时，我们习惯于听到恐怖故事。
But in your interviews with members of your church, one of the things that's striking is how often people told you about moments and times where things worked out OK.
但在您对教会成员的采访中，令人震惊的事情之一是人们经常告诉您事情进展顺利的时刻和时间。
And many people told you stories about somebody-- a boss or a coworker or a teacher or a friend-- who would look out for them and help get them jobs and appointments, help them find housing in an otherwise exclusive neighborhood that was trying to keep blacks out.
许多人告诉你关于某人的故事——老板、同事、老师或朋友——他们会照顾他们，帮助他们找到工作和任命，帮助他们在一个试图将黑人拒之门外的排外社区找到住房。
Let me ask you to talk about some of that tape.
让我请你谈谈那盘磁带的一些内容。
Let's play a little bit of that.
让我们玩一点吧。
OK.
好的。
One of the people that I interviewed was a gentleman named Richard Jennifer.
我采访的人之一是一位名叫理查德·詹妮弗的绅士。
He's in his late 60's now, and he was an engineer for a subsidiary of the New York Times .
他现在已经 60 多岁了，曾是《纽约时报》子公司的工程师。
He started working for the New York Times in the early '50s.
五十年代初，他开始为《纽约时报》工作。
Race was not really a real concern, because we all tended to go around, pal around, play around with each other on our off hours, as well as our working days.
种族并不是真正的问题，因为我们都倾向于在下班时间和工作日四处走动、交朋友、互相玩耍。
The interesting part about talking to Richard was that I learned his employer went to pretty great lengths to ensure that he was able to perform his job without the usual racial barriers impeding his ability to work.
与理查德交谈的有趣之处在于，我了解到他的雇主竭尽全力确保他能够履行自己的工作，而通常的种族障碍不会妨碍他的工作能力。
I was beginning to travel quite a bit and beginning to fly quite a bit.
我开始经常旅行，也开始经常坐飞机。
And somehow or other, it came up one day-- a question was asked of me.
不知何故，有一天，有人问了我一个问题。
Dick, were you aware of the fact that there's been an entourage that went ahead of you to clear the road so that when you came to the hotels or whatever, there was no racial things involved?
迪克，你是否知道有一个随从在你前面清理道路，这样当你来到酒店或其他地方时，就不会涉及种族问题？
And I said, absolutely not.
我说，绝对不是。
Because it just wasn't something that I was aware of.
因为这不是我意识到的事情。
This next interview is with Finley Campbell, who's a professor at DeVry University and an activist in the Progressive Labor Party and very active in the social justice and environmental justice movement in our church.
下一次采访的对象是芬利·坎贝尔 (Finley Campbell)，他是德锐大学 (DeVry University) 教授，也是进步工党 (Progressive Labour Party) 的积极分子，在我们教会的社会正义和环境正义运动中非常活跃。
He's a civil rights activist that goes way back.
他是一位历史悠久的民权活动家。
And he also was shot in Tupelo, Mississippi in 1978.
1978 年，他还在密西西比州图珀洛被枪杀。
Thinking about my experience with integration-- boy, there were a bunch of them.
想想我的整合经历——天哪，有很多这样的经历。
But the one that really sticks out is with my eating broiled rabbit with a Kentucky white brother named Junior Osbourne and his wife Rosemary.
但真正引人注目的是我和一位肯塔基州白人兄弟朱尼尔·奥斯本和他的妻子罗斯玛丽一起吃烤兔子。
We were in this little town of Crawfordsville, Indiana.
我们在印第安纳州克劳福兹维尔这个小镇。
And I am the-- pardon the expression-- the black leader of the white folks.
我是——请原谅这个说法——白人的黑人领袖。
Because no one else wanted to reach out to the quote, "rednecks," unquote, except me.
因为除了我之外，没有人愿意引用“乡巴佬”这句话，取消引用。
And there's a long story behind that.
这背后还有一个很长的故事。
But right now, I'm eating dinner with Junior Osbourne and his wife Rosemary.
但现在，我正在与朱尼尔·奥斯本和他的妻子罗斯玛丽一起吃晚饭。
And they bring out this stewed rabbit.
他们拿出了这只炖兔子。
It is so good.
真是太好了。
It is so delicious.
真是太好吃了。
And we're sitting there eating and talking, and talking about the food stamps program and things like that.
我们坐在那里边吃边聊，谈论食品券计划之类的事情。
And here is this guy who had been my nightmare, the redneck, drawling, working-class, white man with his white wife.
这就是我的噩梦，一个乡下人，慢吞吞的工人阶级白人，和他的白人妻子。
And I'm sitting there, the radical supporter of the Black Panther party and all that stuff.
我坐在那里，是黑豹党等的激进支持者。
And we're sharing this rabbit, and it is so good.
我们正在分享这只兔子，它非常棒。
And I said, how did you learn how to cook rabbit black style?
我说，你是怎么学会做兔黑式的？
And he said, what do you mean, black style?
他说，你是什么意思，黑色风格？
This is the way we white folks always cook it.
这是我们白人总是这样做的。
And then it dawned on me that there is a Southern unity.
然后我突然意识到南方有一个团结。
There was always a form of cultural integration in the South, in which law acted as the wall to keep us divided, not personal desire or personal experience, for many people.
南方总是有一种文化融合的形式，对于许多人来说，法律而不是个人欲望或个人经历，充当了分隔我们的墙。
Not all, but for many people.
不是全部，但对于很多人来说。
So that really stuck out in my mind, having that rabbit with Junior Osbourne.
所以，和朱尼尔·奥斯本一起养那只兔子的事在我脑海中留下了深刻的印象。
And that turned me completely away from any blackism I may have had about white folks who are not capable of making change.
这让我完全不再对那些没有能力做出改变的白人抱有任何黑人歧视。
All right.
好的。
Well, let's get to some of the tougher experiences people had as racial pioneers.
好吧，让我们来看看人们作为种族先驱所经历的一些艰难经历。
Well, Alex Poinsett is a longstanding member of our church.
嗯，亚历克斯·波因塞特是我们教会的长期成员。
He used to be on the senior staff at Ebony Magazine as a writer.
他曾是 Ebony 杂志的高级职员，担任作家。
And he grew up in Inglewood in the '20s and '30s.
他在 20 世纪 20 年代和 30 年代在英格尔伍德长大。
And his first experience with integration was in high school.
他第一次融入社会是在高中。
He says, among the people he knew, there was no real mixing.
他说，在他认识的人中，没有真正的混合。
Blacks were just ignored.
黑人只是被忽视了。
They stayed completely segregated when he was in the Navy.
当他在海军服役时，他们保持完全隔离。
But he says some of his worst experiences were in college.
但他说他最糟糕的经历是在大学时期。
Well, the University of Illinois in Champaign was like North Mississippi.
嗯，位于尚佩恩的伊利诺伊大学就像北密西西比州一样。
In my own case, I was obliged to sit-- the only black in a particular classroom-- and have to tolerate a professor telling a "nigger in the woodpile joke, and not realizing that, well, there's a black person here who might be offended by that.
就我自己而言，我不得不坐下来——作为特定教室里唯一的黑人——并且不得不容忍一位教授讲“木头堆里的黑鬼笑话”，却没有意识到，好吧，这里有一个黑人可能会因此而被冒犯。
And after that particular session, I recall vividly him realizing that he had committed a faux pas and trying very, very hard to be apologetic and so forth.
在那次特别的会议之后，我清楚地记得他意识到自己犯了失礼，并非常非常努力地道歉等等。
I just simply walked away from him.
我只是简单地从他身边走开。
Another person that we talked to was Charlotte Lackner.
我们采访的另一个人是夏洛特·拉克纳。
And she was also at the University of Illinois around the same time that Alex Poinsett was there.
与亚历克斯·波因塞特 (Alex Poinsett) 大约在同一时间，她也在伊利诺伊大学就读。
People bought that anybody who really was straight with black people-- they were Communists or something.
人们相信那些对黑人真正持直率态度的人——他们是共产党人什么的。
They were not people who were regular people, you know.
你知道，他们不是普通人。
The blacks thought that?
黑人这么想？
Charlotte Lackner Yeah.
夏洛特·拉克纳 是的。
Well, that's the way it was.
嗯，事情就是这样。
When I went to Illinois, you couldn't live in the dorms.
当我去伊利诺伊州时，你不能住在宿舍里。
And at Chicago, you could.
在芝加哥，你可以。
At Chicago you could live in the dorms.
在芝加哥你可以住在宿舍里。
People used to call this a Communist school in those days.
当时人们称其为共产主义学校。
They were always talking about the Communists, the Reds, at Chicago.
他们总是谈论芝加哥的共产党、红军。
One of the other people that we talked to was Pauline McCool.
我们采访的其他人之一是波琳·麦库尔（Pauline McCool）。
She came to the church as a Sunday School teacher, but she ended up as the first black member of the First Unitarian Church in Chicago.
她作为主日学老师来到教会，但最终成为芝加哥第一一神论教会的第一位黑人成员。
I said to my mom and dad, hey, I'm joining the church.
我对爸爸妈妈说，嘿，我要加入教会。
Would you come and be with me?
你愿意来和我在一起吗？
So I came over.
所以我就过来了。
And as I say, I ran in, raised my hand, was accepted.
正如我所说，我跑进去，举起手，被接受了。
Unknown to me, on that day, the president of the board went to my father.
我不知道的是，那天，董事长去找了我父亲。
And he had this conversation with him, stating that, oh, well, it's all right if the people who come are like your daughter.
他和他进行了这样的谈话，说，哦，好吧，如果来的人像你的女儿那样就没关系。
And what did he mean by, like your daughter?
他说的“像你女儿一样”是什么意思？
What was it that you--
你到底是什么——
OK, I'm assuming that, since it was not told to me for several years later-- my father was quite hurt and knew that I was so enthusiastic about this church.
好吧，我假设，因为几年后没有人告诉我——我父亲很受伤，并且知道我对这座教堂如此热情。
Had I known that, I would have been disillusioned at a time when I was just forming an opinion of what was truth and what was reality and all the rest of it.
如果我知道这一点，当我刚刚对什么是真理、什么是现实以及其他一切形成看法时，我就会幻灭了。
I'm sure that he was indicating that, OK, these are middle-class blacks.
我确信他是在表明，好吧，这些都是中产阶级黑人。
They own their own home.
他们拥有自己的家。
This girl is in college.
这个女孩正在上大学。
She's going to be a professional.
她将成为一名专业人士。
Whatever it meant, soon that faction left the church.
不管这意味着什么，很快这个派别就离开了教堂。
Alex Poinsett joined the church after Pauline McCool.
亚历克斯·波因塞特 (Alex Poinsett) 在宝琳·麦库尔 (Pauline McCool) 之后加入了教会。
But one of the things that he told us is that even though this pro-white faction left the church, it didn't really make that much of a difference.
但他告诉我们的一件事是，尽管这个亲白人派别离开了教会，但这并没有真正产生太大的影响。
We made some pretty good friendships here.
我们在这里建立了一些非常好的友谊。
Although I think many of the whites, even in those early days-- my wife felt church members were constantly on pins and needles, fearful of, on the one hand, being offensive to me or being so naive in their relationship with me as to inadvertently as to offend me.
尽管我认为很多白人，即使在早期，我的妻子也觉得教会成员总是如坐针毡，一方面担心冒犯我，另一方面担心他们与我的关系过于天真，以至于无意中冒犯了我。
And the striking thing about that experience was that there was no concerted effort on the part of the church to "integrate," in quotes, the liturgy.
这次经历的惊人之处在于，教会方面没有齐心协力“整合”礼拜仪式。
Whatever black spirituality you brought to the church you parked outside of the door.
无论你把什么黑人灵性带到教堂，你都把它停在门外。
You didn't bring it inside the door.
你没有把它带进门。
I mean, if you were into hand-clapping and shouting and all of that, you left that part at the door.
我的意思是，如果你喜欢拍手、大喊大叫之类的，你就把那部分留在门口了。
Because you would be an embarrassment, you see.
因为你会感到尴尬，你看。
So that's one-way integration.
这就是单向集成。
That sort of integration says, you get like me, and whatever it is that is unique to you, you leave that behind.
这种整合意味着，你变得像我一样，无论你独特的是什么，你都将其抛在脑后。
That's cultural suicide.
这就是文化自杀。
When civil rights began to emerge on the scene and began to be a factor and people began to think about it, there was a real effort to do things in an integrated.
当民权开始出现并开始成为一个因素并且人们开始思考它时，人们真正做出了综合努力。
way
方式
This is George Reed, who was somebody that I interviewed at length.
这是乔治·里德，我曾详细采访过他。
He was a chemist professionally.
他是一名职业化学家。
His experience was interesting, because he noted that in the beginning of the civil rights movement, there were a lot of goodwill gestures on the part of whites.
他的经历很有趣，因为他指出，在民权运动之初，白人做出了很多善意的姿态。
And I think he felt that that was a good thing, but I think soon thereafter, and I mean over the course of years, those goodwill gestures began to diminish.
我认为他觉得这是一件好事，但我认为此后不久，我的意思是多年来，这些善意的姿态开始减少。
We were invited to innumerable homes and events and whatnot in the suburbs, which I hated to go to because I always got lost.
我们被邀请去无数的家庭和活动以及郊区的其他什么地方，我讨厌去那里，因为我总是迷路。
I just automatically go the wrong way, no matter how clear the directions are.
无论指示多么清晰，我都会自动走错路。
And I always got lost, and I hated it.
我总是迷路，我讨厌这样。
But the people were wonderful.
但这里的人都很棒。
And we had wonderful experiences, and we developed some very good friendships.
我们度过了美好的经历，并建立了一些非常好的友谊。
And then, it was sort of like a flash in the pan.
然后，这有点像昙花一现。
This sort of thing kind of faded away.
这种事情就这样渐渐消失了。
I don't know whether it was due to the militancy of the blacks or whether the fact that the whites decided that it was too much trouble to be trying to do all these types of reaching-out things.
我不知道这是由于黑人的好斗性还是因为白人认为尝试做所有这些类型的接触事情太麻烦了。
They had enough to do in their own communities, with their own relationships and whatnot.
他们在自己的社区、自己的人际关系等等方面有足够的事情要做。
I don't know what went on in the white mind.
不知道小白脑子里在想什么。
But I think in the black mind, probably, the attitude was, look-- I guess the best way I can describe it is related to the church.
但我认为在黑人头脑中，态度可能是，看——我想我能描述它的最好方式与教堂有关。
There was a sort of a meeting here at the church, downstairs in the basement.
在教堂楼下的地下室里举行了一次聚会。
And we were all down there.
我们都在那里。
And they had this person who was an expert at bringing these people together and getting people talking and thinking in buzz groups.
他们有一个专家，他擅长将这些人聚集在一起，让人们在讨论小组中交谈和思考。
And this thing went round and round and round.
这件事就这样一圈又一圈地过去了。
And I'll never forget that, because I was really upset and annoyed by the sort of cavalier attitude that many whites took about the sort of problems that we were trying to deal with.
我永远不会忘记这一点，因为许多白人对我们试图解决的问题所采取的傲慢态度让我感到非常沮丧和恼火。
And finally I got up and said, listen, you can all walk out of here, and you're white and you can go do whatever you want.
最后我站起来说，听着，你们都可以离开这里，你们是白人，可以做任何你们想做的事。
We will all walk out here, and we're still black.
我们都会走出这里，但我们仍然是黑人。
And we can't change that.
我们无法改变这一点。
So I think something did happen, that blacks decided, OK, look, no more of this accomodation stuff.
所以我认为确实发生了一些事情，黑人决定，好吧，看，不再有这种住宿的东西。
Now, your church is a kind of living history of people who have tried this accommodation stuff, as George Reed says.
现在，正如乔治·里德所说，你们的教会是尝试过这种住宿方式的人们的活生生的历史。
There are a lot of people there who have really tried to make integration work in their lives.
那里有很多人真正尝试过让融合在他们的生活中发挥作用。
And given the ongoing public debate across the country about how to integrate, whether to integrate, whether it accomplishes anything worthwhile, I know that one of the things you asked your church members was, do they think it's worth it?
鉴于全国范围内正在进行关于如何整合、是否整合、是否能完成任何有价值的事情的公开辩论，我知道你问你的教会成员的一件事是，他们认为这值得吗？
Do they feel hopeful about integration?
他们对融合抱有希望吗？
Do they think it's worth trying to do, given their experience?
鉴于他们的经验，他们认为这值得尝试吗？
Well, this is Finley Campbell.
嗯，这是芬利·坎贝尔。
Like I said earlier, he's an activist.
正如我之前所说，他是一名活动家。
And he's been involved in issues in the South and the North.
他还参与了南方和北方的问题。
And he has a lot to share here.
他在这里有很多东西要分享。
Integration never has been given a chance to really get off the ground.
整合从未有机会真正起步。
Remember, we had our last integration bill in '65, and then '66 the Black Power movement hit on the one end.
请记住，我们在 65 年制定了最后一项融合法案，然后在 66 年黑人权力运动迎来了终结。
And then Nixon hit in '68 on the other end.
然后尼克松在 68 年的另一端击中了。
And then there is a white-skin privilege and this, that, and the other popped up.
然后就有了白皮肤的特权，这个、那个、另一个突然出现。
So we can no longer talk about a mass integrationist process.
因此，我们不能再谈论大规模一体化进程。
It was short-circuited.
它被短路了。
It was betrayed, to be blunt.
坦白说，它被背叛了。
So we've got to talk about integration moments.
所以我们必须谈谈整合时刻。
And not only have I seen them and experienced them, they fill me with hope.
我不仅看到了它们、经历了它们，它们还让我充满了希望。
Now, what do you say to people who think that integration happened, and now we need to move into more segregated, separate kinds of worlds within the country?
现在，对于那些认为一体化已经发生、我们需要进入国内更加隔离、独立的世界的人，您有何看法？
What do you say to them?
你对他们说什么？
Because that seems like a growing movement and commentary that a lot of people who are in the Afro-centric movement are talking about.
因为这似乎是一场不断发展的运动和评论，许多参与非洲中心运动的人都在谈论。
What do you say about that?
对此你有何看法？
Well, I say that many of those people never really experienced true down-home segregation.
嗯，我想说的是，其中许多人从未真正经历过真正的家庭隔离。
One of the top Afro-centrist persons, whose name I will not mention, was actually reared in a small town in Minnesota.
一位顶尖的非洲中心主义者（我不会提及他的名字）实际上是在明尼苏达州的一个小镇长大的。
So of course, with that kind of experience, being the only black, being around very few blacks, you're going to feel like, my God, let me get as black as I can.
所以，当然，有了这样的经历，作为唯一的黑人，周围只有很少的黑人，你会觉得，天哪，让我尽可能地黑人吧。
But those of us who came up through the old Southern days, with the black churches, black conventions, black schools-- we know what that's like.
但我们这些经历过旧南方时代、黑人教堂、黑人大会、黑人学校的人——我们知道那是什么样的。
And we say, OK, now we're ready for the next flow.
我们说，好吧，现在我们已经准备好进入下一个流程了。
Here's George Reed again.
乔治·里德又来了。
George Reed I don't think that there is the sort of commitment in the white community as there was, earlier on, to trying to resolve it.
乔治·里德（George Reed） 我认为白人社区没有像早些时候那样致力于解决这个问题。
I think maybe many people in the white community are running scared themselves.
我想也许白人社区的许多人自己都害怕了。
They want to survive.
他们想要生存。
And whites have grown up in a society that condones bigotry in many respects.
白人是在一个在许多方面纵容偏执的社会中长大的。
And even whites who are liberated from that, they still have that baggage that they have to carry, just like blacks have a baggage that they have to carry that says that maybe they aren't up to it or that they're not deserving, or that this country doesn't belong to them like it belongs to everybody else.
即使是从这种情况中解放出来的白人，他们仍然有必须背负的包袱，就像黑人有他们必须背负的包袱一样，这表明他们可能无法胜任，或者他们不值得，或者这个国家不属于他们，就像它属于其他人一样。
It's something that's so subtle and pervasive that it's going to take probably, even with the best intentions, a few generations to purge.
这种现象是如此微妙和普遍，即使有最好的意图，也可能需要几代人的时间才能清除。
}}}}}+
}}}}}+
This next tape is from John Rice.
下一个磁带来自约翰·赖斯。
He came to the church, I think, in the '70s.
我想，他是在 70 年代来到教堂的。
So maybe he was hiding out.
所以也许他是躲起来了。
He was a Black Panther at the time, and a lot {"?
他当时是黑豹党成员，而且很多{”？
heat on
加热
Him.
他。
So he came to our church and became involved in the activities there, and has been there ever since.
于是他来到了我们教会，参与了那里的活动，并一直在那里。
And he said that he found the closest thing to real integration is in our church.
他说他发现最接近真正融合的地方是在我们的教会。
In the outside world, he says, there's a lot of pressure on black people to be primarily identified only as black.
他说，在外部世界，黑人承受着很大的压力，要求他们首先被认定为黑人。
And I've had people from both communities who are-- well, you know you're black, don't you?
我遇到过来自两个社区的人——嗯，你知道自己是黑人，不是吗？
Well, you know you're black, don't you?
好吧，你知道你是黑人，不是吗？
Well, you know you're a nigger, don't you?
好吧，你知道你是个黑鬼，不是吗？
So in that sense, this Unitarian society gave me that freedom.
所以从这个意义上说，这个一神论社会给了我这种自由。
I can be the asshole that I want to be.
我可以成为我想成为的混蛋。
And nobody says, that's that black asshole.
没有人说，那就是那个黑混蛋。
They just say, that's John.
他们只是说，那是约翰。
He's who he is, right?
他就是他，对吧？
So I like that freedom.
所以我喜欢这种自由。
One of the things, I think, that's made people in our church feel as if integration has worked is that people have substantial, authentic relationships with one another.
我认为，让我们教会的人们感觉融合有效的原因之一是人们彼此之间建立了实质性的、真实的关系。
And I think that's a really big difference, is that it's been a long haul.
我认为这是一个非常大的区别，因为这是一个漫长的过程。
George is still there.
乔治还在那里。
Betty is still there.
贝蒂还在那里。
Charlotte is still there.
夏洛特还在那里。
All these folks are still around, struggling with these issues.
所有这些人仍然存在，正在努力解决这些问题。
Maybe not talking about them in the same tone, but they're still part of building a community.
也许不会以同样的语气谈论它们，但它们仍然是构建社区的一部分。
And I think the dream is still alive for many people, because of that church.
我认为，由于那座教堂，许多人的梦想仍然存在。
But I think the authenticity of the relationships means that certain things have worked for them.
但我认为关系的真实性意味着某些事情对他们有用。
Yeah.
是的。
Do you want to say something, Laura?
你想说点什么吗，劳拉？
Yeah.
是的。
And I wanted to say, I think that is what sort of drew me to the church initially.
我想说，我想这就是最初吸引我来到教堂的原因。
I mean, I came to the church at a point where I thought, I live in two different worlds still, and it's driving me crazy.
我的意思是，我来到教会的时候我想，我仍然生活在两个不同的世界里，这让我发疯。
I live on the North side, and I grew up on the South side, and I swear to god they're still two different cities.
我住在北边，在南边长大，我向上帝发誓它们仍然是两个不同的城市。
And for me, I needed to reconcile that.
对我来说，我需要协调这一点。
And when I came to First Unitarian and I saw that people were still struggling with these issues, I thought, OK, I haven't lost my mind.
当我来到第一一神论时，我看到人们仍在为这些问题而苦苦挣扎，我想，好吧，我并没有失去理智。
People are still struggling with this.
人们仍在为此苦苦挣扎。
And maybe-- George talks about the burden that he felt that he thought that whites didn't share.
也许——乔治谈到了他认为白人无法分担的负担。
And yet I think that in some small way, I feel that burden too, because I don't want to live in a world where we can only live in harmony if we live separately.
但我认为，在某种程度上，我也感受到了这种负担，因为我不想生活在一个只有分开生活才能和谐相处的世界。
It just doesn't feel right.
就是感觉不太对劲。
Well, Laura Finnegan and Karen Hutt of the First Unitarian Church here in Chicago, thank you both very much.
芝加哥第一一神论教会的劳拉·芬尼根 (Laura Finnegan) 和凯伦·赫特 (Karen Hutt) 非常感谢你们。
It was fun.
很有趣。
[MUSIC -- "STOP THAT ALABAMA BUS"]
[音乐——“停下那辆阿拉巴马巴士”]
Well, earlier in our program, we heard a story by Claudia Perez about the year on 26th Street.
嗯，在我们节目的早些时候，我们听到了克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 (Claudia Perez) 讲述的关于 26 街这一年的故事。
And we thought that we would end our program with her as well.
我们认为我们也会和她一起结束我们的计划。
In reviewing what the year was like in her neighborhood, she also talked about what the year was like in her own life.
在回顾这一年她家附近的情况时，她也谈到了这一年她自己的生活。
And she said that her family has actually been pretty sad this year, because a cousin who everybody loved was shot last November, though she didn't want to talk more about that on the radio.
她说她的家人今年实际上非常难过，因为去年 11 月她的一位大家喜爱的表弟被枪杀，尽管她不想在广播中更多地谈论这件事。
And this September, she said she had a kind of turning point in her life.
今年九月，她说她的人生出现了一个转折点。
She's 18, and she goes to an alternative high school called El Quarto Ano.
她今年 18 岁，就读于一所名为 El Quarto Ano 的另类高中。
And their funding was threatened and they were going to have to close.
他们的资金受到威胁，他们将不得不关闭。
And her teachers said say she was instrumental in convincing the City College's Board of Directors to reinstate the funding.
她的老师们表示，她在说服城市学院董事会恢复资助方面发挥了重要作用。
She spoke before them, and according to eyewitnesses, she captivated them, the way she spoke.
她在他们面前讲话，据目击者称，她说话的方式吸引了他们。
And they did decide to give the money to keep the school open.
他们确实决定捐钱来维持学校的开放。
And to give you a sense of the kind of person who she is becoming now, she decided her school should put out a newspaper, and so she put one out.
为了让你了解她现在正在成为什么样的人，她决定她的学校应该发行一份报纸，所以她发行了一份报纸。
She wanted to interview Luis Rodriguez, the local poet and author.
她想采访当地诗人兼作家路易斯·罗德里格斯。
And she did interview him, which she said for her was a big thing.
她确实采访了他，她说这对她来说是一件大事。
And when she and I were going around the discount mall interviewing people for her story, she was constantly giving advice to people, especially to the other teenagers when she would hear their situations.
当我和她在折扣购物中心采访人们讲述她的故事时，她不断地向人们提供建议，尤其是当她听到其他青少年的情况时。
In the leather store, for example, she got into a big discussion with two different women, actually, about how to get college tuition.
例如，在皮革店里，她实际上与两个不同的女人就如何获得大学学费进行了激烈的讨论。
Yeah.
是的。
If you have any good qualifications, like in doing anything, if you could finally get a scholarship, they'll help you.
如果你有什么好的资格，比如做任何事情，如果你最终能获得奖学金，他们会帮助你。
Anything.
任何东西。
They're helping me try to get a savings bond from this thing called Latin something.
他们正在帮助我尝试从一种叫做拉丁语的东西中获得储蓄债券。
And they give you at least $500.
他们至少会给你 500 美元。
But that's good.
但这很好。
Anything will help you.
任何事情都会帮助你。
Try to write essays, or poems, anything, and enter them into-- sometimes you've got to look for scholarships.
尝试写论文，或诗歌，任何东西，然后将它们输入——有时你必须寻找奖学金。
And just enter them.
只需输入它们即可。
And you could get a-- especially because you're Hispanic.
你可能会得到——特别是因为你是西班牙裔。
When you go to regular high school, they're not going to tell you that, because they don't want you to succeed.
当你上普通高中时，他们不会告诉你这些，因为他们不希望你成功。
That's the thing.
就是这样。
They don't want you to succeed.
他们不希望你成功。
So when she was in our studio, we talked to her about her year.
所以当她在我们的工作室时，我们和她谈论了她的这一年。
And hold on, let's get that tape cued up.
等等，让我们把磁带调好。
And here we go.
我们开始吧。
So how's your year been?
那么你这一年过得怎么样？
Claudia Perez Up and down.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 上下。
Basically down, though.
不过基本上还是下降了。
In what way?
以什么方式？
Claudia Perez My dad's not here.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 我爸爸不在这里。
He wasn't here for Christmas or Thanksgiving.
他没有来这里过圣诞节或感恩节。
Because?
因为？
Claudia Perez Personal reasons.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 个人原因。
Just personal reasons.
只是个人原因。
I just know my dad is doing good.
我只知道我爸爸过得很好。
He'll be home soon.
他很快就会回家。
He will be home soon.
他很快就会回家。
Claudia Perez Real soon.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯·雷亚尔很快就会出现。
Well, at Christmas, I spent it with my best friend.
嗯，圣诞节的时候，我是和我最好的朋友一起度过的。
Then I finally-- this guy came who I've liked for a long time.
然后我终于——这个我喜欢了很久的人来了。
It's going to be four years.
马上就要四年了。
And I've seen him on Christmas Eve.
我在平安夜见过他。
It was good.
很好。
It was nice, because I haven't seen him for probably about three months, maybe.
这很好，因为我可能已经三个月没见到他了。
So you've liked him for a long time.
所以说你喜欢他很久了。
You just haven't been seeing him.
你只是没见过他而已。
You haven't been going out or anything for a long time.
你已经很久没有出去玩或者做任何事了。
No, nothing like that.
不，没有那样的事。
And I've seen him, and I was happy.
我见过他，我很高兴。
I was real happy to have seen him.
见到他我真的很高兴。
I thought, oh, good.
我想，哦，很好。
I got a nice present.
我得到了一份很好的礼物。
To me, that was a good present.
对我来说，那是一份很好的礼物。
Just to see him.
只是为了见他。
Claudia Perez Yeah.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 是的。
And then two days later, I see him at the mall with another girl.
两天后，我在商场看到他和另一个女孩在一起。
And I guess to me, that was a sign to finally let go.
我想对我来说，这是最终放手的标志。
And I wanted to cry, but it was just, like, there's no more tears left.
我想哭，但就像，再也没有眼泪了。
I've learned to take the pain of being let down by him.
我已经学会承受被他失望的痛苦。
I still think about him, but when he calls me, I'm not going to jump to it no more.
我仍然想着他，但当他打电话给我时，我不会再跳下去了。
I know it's not forever.
我知道这不是永远。
Three to four years.
三四年。
It's going to be four years.
马上就要四年了。
And all through that time, you would see him every now and then.
在那段时间里，你会时不时地见到他。
Every now and then.
时不时地。
I'll have my boyfriends, he'll have his girlfriends.
我会有我的男朋友，他也会有他的女朋友。
But we still talk and everything.
但我们仍然谈论一切。
But to me, that's a great achievement, that I'm finally letting go of someone.
但对我来说，这是一项伟大的成就，我终于放弃了一个人。
Because-- how can I tell you?
因为——我该怎么告诉你呢？
I've stopped a lot of things for him.
我为他阻止了很多事情。
I could have been somewhere else instead of here.
我本来可以去别的地方而不是这里。
You mean living somewhere else, in another city.
你的意思是住在其他地方，在另一个城市。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
But I didn't.
但我没有。
Because I would worry about where he was at, or what he was doing.
因为我会担心他在哪里，或者他在做什么。
So I came back.
所以我回来了。
And now I'm just going to keep on walking.
现在我要继续走下去。
Now, for our story, you've brought in a CD.
现在，对于我们的故事，您带来了一张 CD。
What is this?
这是什么？
It's a song that I dedicated to that boy.
这是我献给那个男孩的一首歌。
To that young man.
给那个年轻人。
It's number four.
这是第四名。
The one who you're not going to feel bad about anymore.
那个你不会再感到难过的人。
Number four.
第四。
Ira Glass All right, I'm cuing it up.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：好吧，我正在提示。
Do you want to say anything else special to him before we play it?
在我们比赛之前你想对他说点特别的话吗？
That he'll always be in my heart forever.
愿他永远在我心里。
OK.
好的。
Who is this?
这是谁？
Claudia Perez Um, it's-- oh, it's not on here.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 嗯，它——哦，它不在这里。
Is it on the thing?
是在东西上吗？
Claudia Perez Mm-hmm.
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 嗯嗯。
All right, hold on.
好吧，坚持住。
Let me just check.
让我检查一下。
Track number four.
曲目四。
It says, "I Remember You, Homie." MC Blvd.
它说：“我记得你，Homie。” MC 大道。
No, no, no. I'm sorry.
不，不，不。对不起。
It's number seven.
这是第七号。
Track number seven.
轨道七号。
"I Needed You Most." Marie.
“我最需要你。”玛丽.
Yeah.
是的。
[MUSIC -- "I NEEDED YOU MOST" BY MARIE]
[音乐——玛丽的“我最需要你”]
This is so sad.
这太悲伤了。
Claudia Perez You see?
克劳迪娅·佩雷斯 你看到了吗？
That's to him.
那是给他的。
Today's program was produced by Nancy Updike and myself, with Alix Spiegel, Dolores Wilber, and Peter Clowney.
今天的节目由南希·厄普代克和我、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔、多洛雷斯·威尔伯和彼得·克劳尼共同制作。
Contributing editors Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Paul Tough.
特约编辑 Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Paul Tough。
The WBEZ executive officially overseeing this program is Torey Malatia.
正式监督该计划的 WBEZ 执行官是 Torey Malatia。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] We broadcast proudly from WBEZ Chicago.
[致谢] 我们自豪地在 WBEZ 芝加哥进行广播。
We'll be back next week with more dramatic tales of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多关于《美国生活》的戏剧性故事。
You're getting so much publicity these days and even egghead papers are writing about you.
这些天你受到了如此多的关注，甚至连学者报纸都在报道你。
Have you been a little bit worried that possibly you might be going over the top fairly soon?
您是否有点担心自己可能很快就会超出极限？
No. This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》《This American Life》是与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作的，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。