797: What I Was Thinking As We Were Sinking - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #797 | June 21, 2024 797: What I Was Thinking As We Were Sinking Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 797 集 | 2024 年 6 月 21 日 797：当我们沉没时我在想什么 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass I've had a bunch of bike accidents in the last year and a half.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 在过去的一年半里我发生了很多自行车事故。
And the moment that things go wrong is always the same.
出问题的时刻总是相同的。
These accidents happen during my morning commute.
这些事故发生在我早上的通勤途中。
And they always happen when it rains.
而且它们总是在下雨的时候发生。
I have this very light bicycle I got.
我有一辆非常轻的自行车。
And when it rains, something about this bike on the city streets-- a metal grate, a slippery patch of any sort at all, can make the bike slip out from under me.
下雨的时候，城市街道上的这辆自行车的一些东西——金属格栅、任何湿滑的地方，都会让自行车从我身下滑落。
I have broken a clavicle.
我锁骨断了。
I banged up my wrist.
我敲响了手腕。
I've given myself some kind of bruise on my right arm that still wakes me up at night, months later.
我的右臂上出现了某种瘀伤，几个月后仍然让我在晚上醒来。
And in each of these three accidents-- you know, like, when you're falling, there's that second or two when you realize you're going down, and you're on your way down, but you haven't actually hit the ground yet?
在这三起事故中，你知道，就像，当你跌倒时，有一两秒钟你意识到你正在跌倒，而且你正在跌倒，但你还没有真正落地？
Weirdly, it is enough time for a bunch of thoughts to go through your head.
奇怪的是，这段时间足以让你脑子里闪过一堆想法。
And all three times, like I say, it's been the same.
正如我所说，这三次都是一样的。
Somehow I get very calm and I think, oh, this isn't going to be so bad.
不知怎的，我变得非常平静，我想，哦，事情不会那么糟糕。
I'm not going very fast.
我不会走得太快。
The ground isn't that far.
地面并不远。
Is a car coming?
有车来吗？
OK, no car is coming.
好吧，没有车来。
I figured out how to fall.
我明白了如何跌倒。
It's going to be fine-- this time.
一切都会好起来的——这一次。
And I think everybody knows how a person reacts under duress, it can tell you something about them.
我想每个人都知道一个人在胁迫下会如何反应，它可以告诉你一些关于他们的信息。
And I think what this set of thoughts says about me is I am optimistic even when there is no factual basis for it at all.
我认为这一系列想法表明我很乐观，即使根本没有事实依据。
Like, at the exact moment when I'm going to collide with the wet surface of the street, a moment when things are definitely not going to be fine, I'm thinking, things will be fine.
就像，就在我要撞到潮湿的街道表面的那一刻，在事情肯定不会好起来的那一刻，我想，事情会好起来的。
I think this optimism has kept me in faltering relationships.
我认为这种乐观态度让我的人际关系陷入了不稳定。
When I mentioned all this at our radio show story meeting this week, one of my coworkers, somebody who I've worked with closely for years, told me-- he has never said this-- that he thinks my optimism is the single most important quality I have.
当我在本周的广播节目故事会议上提到这一切时，我的一位同事，一位与我密切合作多年的同事告诉我——他从未说过这样的话——他认为我的乐观是我所拥有的最重要的品质。
He said he'll tell me there are 17 things that can go wrong with some plan that we have.
他说他会告诉我，我们的某些计划可能会出现 17 处错误。
And I'll just go, eh, let's go for it.
我就走，呃，让我们继续吧。
Though I have to say, after three accidents, I have learned not to ride this particular bike in the rain.
尽管我不得不说，在经历了三起事故之后，我已经学会了不要在雨中骑这辆特殊的自行车。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
Today on our program, we have stories where things go very, very badly for people.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了人们的情况非常非常糟糕的故事。
They are on the way down and in that moment of crisis.
他们正在走下坡路，正处于危机时刻。
What they're thinking reveals so much about who they are.
他们的想法揭示了他们是谁。
Some people, it leads to new insights.
有些人，它会带来新的见解。
Some, it leads to no insights at all.
有些，它根本不会带来任何见解。
And some are hit with a lightning bolt of inspiration and figure out how to save themselves.
有些人灵机一动，想出了如何拯救自己。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Pirates of the Cari-BEAN-TOWN." One summer, a while back, a group of friends got in trouble, got in over their heads, almost literally, in the middle of Boston Harbor.
第一幕，“卡里豆镇的海盗”。不久前的一个夏天，一群朋友在波士顿港中部遇到了麻烦，几乎完全超出了他们的承受范围。
Our producer, Ike Sriskandarajah, tells the tale-- though, for the purposes of today's story, call him Ishmael.
我们的制片人艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾 (Ike Sriskandarajah) 讲述了这个故事，但为了今天故事的目的，请称他为以实玛利 (Ishmael)。
I've been friends with you this whole time and I didn't know that this is your most told story.
我一直是你的朋友，但我不知道这是你讲得最多的故事。
Well, I wouldn't tell it to you.
好吧，我不会告诉你。
You were there.
你当时就在那里。
I was there.
我在那里。
It was over 10 years ago and I was a new resident in the Boston area.
那是十多年前的事了，我是波士顿地区的新居民。
My good friend, Sophie Tintori, introduced me to some people she knew well.
我的好朋友索菲·廷托里（Sophie Tintori）向我介绍了一些她很熟悉的人。
We liked the same kinds of jokes and could only afford the same kind of rent.
我们喜欢同样的笑话，只能负担同样的房租。
So we moved into a big house together.
于是我们一起搬进了一栋大房子。
And soon, we got to the stage in any relationship where someone suggests taking things to the next level.
很快，我们就进入了任何关系的阶段，有人建议将事情提升到一个新的水平。
So I don't know exactly how it came up, but maybe eight friends or so decided to go in, collectively, and buy a used boat.
所以我不知道它是怎么产生的，但也许八个左右的朋友决定集体进去，买一艘二手船。
And to my understanding, none of them knew a single thing about boats.
据我了解，他们对船一无所知。
True.
真的。
But did you know the word "catamaran" comes from Tamil?
但您知道“双体船”这个词来自泰米尔语吗？
Kattu maram, "wood tied together." Those are my guys.
Kattu maram，“绑在一起的木头”。这些是我的人。
So that's one thing I know about boats.
这就是我对船的了解之一。
And maybe more ancestral knowledge was just waiting to surface if I owned a boat.
如果我拥有一艘船，也许更多的祖传知识正等待浮出水面。
Here's how it happened.
事情是这样发生的。
Our friend Max brought us the opportunity.
我们的朋友麦克斯给我们带来了机会。
He knew a person who knew a person who needed to get rid of their boat.
他认识一个人，这个人认识一个需要摆脱他们的船的人。
For $400 each, Max could make us Massachusetts boat people.
每人 400 美元，麦克斯就可以让我们马萨诸塞州的船民。
Having double that in my bank account, I signed a check, sight unseen.
我的银行账户里有两倍的钱，我签了一张支票，看不见。
And when I finally got to meet our boat down at the harbor, it felt like we had gotten away with larceny.
当我终于在港口见到我们的船时，感觉我们已经逃脱了盗窃罪。
I wish you could have seen it, a 1950s Hiliner, a glamorous little wooden motorboat with an engine hanging off the back, polished wood, two rows of white vinyl seats, chrome finishes.
我希望你能看到它，一艘 20 世纪 50 年代的 Hiliner，一艘迷人的小型木制摩托艇，发动机挂在后面，抛光木材，两排白色乙烯基座椅，镀铬饰面。
Think Italian vacation, like The Talented Mr Ripley, but right here on the Boston Riviera.
想象一下意大利度假，就像《才华横溢的里普利先生》一样，但就在波士顿里维埃拉。
Also, like Boston's own Matt Damon in The Talented Mr Ripley, a new high-society life was waiting for us.
此外，就像《才华横溢的雷普利先生》中波士顿自己的马特·达蒙一样，新的上流社会生活正在等待着我们。
The first time I got on the boat, it really felt like magic.
第一次上船的时候，真的感觉很神奇。
We honked just the right number of times and a bridge opened up for us like a bouncer unclipping a red velvet rope to the VIP section.
我们按了正确的次数喇叭，一座桥为我们打开了，就像保镖解开通向贵宾区的红色天鹅绒绳索一样。
We entered the Charles River and stopped to admire the sailboats swirling around us.
我们进入查尔斯河，停下来欣赏在我们周围旋转的帆船。
A small motorboat pulled up to us.
一艘小摩托艇向我们驶来。
The man asked if we were stranded.
那人问我们是否被困了。
No, sir, just enjoying this beautiful day.
不，先生，只是享受这美好的一天。
Thanks for asking.
谢谢你的询问。
Well, you know, you're parked in the middle of a regatta.
嗯，你知道，你把车停在赛艇比赛中。
Oh.
哦。
He looked us over.
他打量了我们一眼。
Do you guys work for Google?
你们在谷歌工作吗？
The plan to cosplay our way to high society was already working.
通过角色扮演进入上流社会的计划已经开始实施。
Max knew the next step.
麦克斯知道下一步该怎么走。
We had to announce our old boat as the newest member of Boston's watery glitterati, which meant a christening party.
我们必须宣布我们的旧船成为波士顿水上名流的最新成员，这意味着一场洗礼派对。
Max had been practicing for this moment his whole life.
马克斯一生都在为这一刻而练习。
The man loves extravagant gestures.
这个男人喜欢奢侈的举动。
He invited friends from near and far to the Charles River Esplanade and asked everyone to wear white.
他邀请远近的朋友来到查尔斯河滨海艺术中心，并要求每个人都穿白色衣服。
He showed up in black, a rented black tuxedo.
他穿着黑色的衣服出现，是一件租来的黑色燕尾服。
Max stood on the front of the boat, named it Marjorie, after his own mother, and smashed a purple bottle of Andre sparkling wine on the nose.
马克斯站在船头，以自己母亲的名字给它命名为马乔里，并把一瓶紫色的安德烈起泡酒砸在船头。
Now I don't know if you believe in curses, and we didn't know it right away, but Max invoked roughly three curses in that moment.
现在我不知道你是否相信诅咒，我们也没有立即知道这一点，但麦克斯在那一刻调用了大约三个诅咒。
Wearing a black tuxedo to a white party of your own design, that's more of a faux pas, not a curse.
穿着黑色燕尾服参加自己设计的白色派对，这更像是一种失礼，而不是一种诅咒。
But number one, renaming a boat, that's a curse.
但第一，重新命名一艘船，这是一个诅咒。
Number two, Jews like Max don't name children after living relatives.
第二，像马克斯这样的犹太人不会以在世亲戚的名字给孩子命名。
Now, the prohibition doesn't specify boats, so let's call that a half curse.
现在，禁令没有具体规定船只，所以我们称其为半诅咒。
Number three, smashing champagne on a used boat-- I heard that's a curse, but only if you consider Andre sparkling wine to be champagne.
第三，在旧船上打碎香槟——我听说这是一个诅咒，但前提是你认为安德烈起泡酒是香槟。
Now it's impossible to say which curse attached itself to the Marjorie.
现在已经无法确定玛乔丽号受到了何种诅咒。
But moments later, the sky darkened and we all scattered as sheets of rain fell upon us.
但过了一会儿，天色暗了下来，大雨倾盆而下，我们四散而去。
The next day, the clouds cleared.
第二天，云开雾散。
Our friends were still in town so we tried to take them out again.
我们的朋友还在城里，所以我们试图再次带他们出去。
Now this is where the story really begins.
现在这就是故事真正开始的地方。
It was a beautiful day.
这是美好的一天。
I think it was early summer and really sunny and gorgeous.
我想那是初夏，阳光明媚，景色宜人。
And there were maybe 12-- 12 of us on the boat?
船上大概有 12——12 个人？
Does that sound right?
听起来对吗？
Nine in a boat that was maybe made for six.
九个人坐在一艘可能是为六个人设计的船上。
But our captain, Max, had just completed a boat safety course.
但我们的船长马克斯刚刚完成了船舶安全课程。
And he told us the only limit for boat capacity is having enough life jackets for everyone, which isn't true.
他告诉我们，船容量的唯一限制是为每个人提供足够的救生衣，但事实并非如此。
But we didn't know that and Max denies ever saying it.
但我们并不知道这一点，马克斯也否认说过这句话。
Squished together, two in the front seat, four in the back, three others perched on the sides, we headed out.
我们挤在一起，两个坐在前排，四个坐在后排，另外三个坐在两侧，我们出发了。
People are taking turns driving, which is really fun.
人们轮流开车，真是有趣。
I got to take the wheel for a little bit.
我得稍微掌管一下。
And I was cutting across the waves, in a way, where we'd like catch a little bit of air and slam down and catch some air and slam down, which I thought was very fun.
我在某种程度上横渡海浪，我们想要抓住一点空气然后猛烈地向下，抓住一些空气然后猛烈地向下，我认为这非常有趣。
And then at one point, somebody leaned over and said to me, Sophie, this is a wooden lake boat.
然后有一次，有人靠过来对我说，索菲，这是一艘木制湖船。
The Marjorie wasn't built for high-octane thrills.
Marjorie 并不是为了高强度的刺激而建造的。
Someone says, we should get back soon.
有人说，咱们快点回去吧。
But Sophie overrules them.
但苏菲否决了他们的要求。
And then, just like the American munitions that rebelled British ships in these very waters-- cannonball!
然后，就像美国军火在这些水域反抗英国船只一样——炮弹！
I jump off the boat because it's a beautiful day and I like to swim.
我跳下船，因为天气很好，而且我喜欢游泳。
And I'm messing around and looking at the boat from the water.
而我则一边闲逛，一边从水里看船。
And when I climbed back into the boat, I climbed in on the back and I just hoisted myself up over the edge of the boat.
当我爬回船时，我爬到船尾，把自己从船边升起来。
And at the point where the most force was being pushed down on the boat, a whole grip of water just flowed right in.
就在船被压下的最大力量处，一大股水直接涌了进来。
The back of the boat dipped below the waterline and Boston Harbor began to enter.
船尾沉入水线以下，波士顿港开始进入。
And then, almost instantaneously, the boat was thigh deep in water.
然后，几乎立刻，船就陷入了大腿深的水中。
This is Ben Ewen Campen, a moral pillar of our group, the kind of friend your mom might ask, is Ben going to be at the party?
这是本·埃文·坎彭 (Ben Ewen Campen)，我们团体的道德支柱，你妈妈可能会问的那种朋友，本会参加聚会吗？
We lived together and co-owned this boat.
我们住在一起并共同拥有这艘船。
My memory is that it was really, really fast.
我的记忆是它真的非常快。
Just it went from regular life, you're having fun, to all of a sudden, emergency mode.
只是它从正常的生活，你享受乐趣，突然变成了紧急模式。
It's still a lovely summer day.
这仍然是一个可爱的夏日。
We're still on our beautiful boat.
我们仍然在我们美丽的船上。
But suddenly, I'm tearing an aluminum can in half to bail us out.
但突然间，我把一个铝罐撕成两半来救我们。
Turns out, half a soda can only scoops as much water as your own cupped hands.
事实证明，半杯苏打水只能舀出与你双手捧起的水一样多的水。
I look over at Sophie, the most MacGyvery of us, to see if she has a better idea.
我看着索菲，我们当中最麦克吉利的人，看看她是否有更好的主意。
I saw a empty gallon, plastic water gallon.
我看到一加仑空的塑料水加仑。
And I was like, oh, if I could tear the top off of this, then I can scoop water out really fast.
我当时想，哦，如果我能把它的顶部撕下来，那么我就能很快地把水舀出来。
But I'm wondering-- I'm like, OK, I don't have anything to cut it with.
但我想知道——我想，好吧，我没有任何东西可以用来削减它。
That's fine.
没关系。
I'll cut it with my teeth.
我会用牙齿把它切掉。
I'll just crack a little hole.
我就敲一个小洞。
And once I get a little hole going, there'll be purchase and I can tear the whole thing open.
一旦我发现了一个小洞，就会有购买，我可以把整个东西撕开。
And I try to bite it with my teeth and my teeth are just so weak.
我试着用牙齿咬它，但我的牙齿太弱了。
And my hands are so weak.
而且我的手太无力了。
And I can't-- I can't do anything.
我不能——我什么也做不了。
I don't think I'm feeling-- experiencing anxiety.
我不认为我感到焦虑。
But suddenly, it's like one of those nightmares where none of your limbs work.
但突然间，这就像一场噩梦，你的四肢都无法工作。
Maybe the weight of nine passengers was too much.
也许九名乘客的重量太大了。
Or maybe Sophie's full-throttle aerials had split the seams.
或者也许索菲的全油门天线已经裂开了接缝。
Or maybe (WHISPERING) it was a curse.
或者也许（低声）这是一个诅咒。
Here's what we know.
这是我们所知道的。
We're alone.
我们很孤独。
We're in a small boat.
我们在一条小船上。
We're far from shore.
我们离岸还很远。
The nearest land to us is Logan Airport.
离我们最近的土地是洛根机场。
And that's when it begins to dawn on me.
就在那时我开始明白了。
If we have to jump off this boat and swim to the closest land, we would be army crawling up the banks of a government-controlled airspace.
如果我们必须跳下这艘船并游到最近的陆地，我们将成为在政府控制的空域岸边爬行的军队。
Look, it's so close we can just swim to Logan.
看，距离这么近，我们只要游到洛根就可以了。
And very quickly and quietly, but quite definitively, you said, I'm not going to do that.
你非常迅速、安静地但非常明确地说，我不会那样做。
I'm picturing my white friends being wrapped in tinfoil blankets and fed cocoa, and me being perp walked off the tarmac by Homeland Security.
我想象着我的白人朋友被裹在锡纸毯子里并喂可可，而我则被国土安全部从停机坪上带走。
Not today, government black site.
今天不行，政府黑网站。
Our options are shrinking.
我们的选择越来越少。
Our bails aren't bailing.
我们的保释没有保释。
The engine's not turning.
发动机不转了。
There's water, water everywhere.
那里有水，到处都是水。
I think we're going to sink.
我想我们会沉没的。
We were sinking.
我们正在下沉。
We were in a sinking boat.
我们在一艘正在下沉的船上。
Toby David is visiting from Philly.
托比·大卫从费城来访。
A gifted speech maker, he helped christen the Marjorie just the day before.
作为一位才华横溢的演讲家，他在前一天帮助为马乔里命名。
Now he reminds us he is not a good swimmer, asthmatic, and does not like cold water.
现在他提醒我们，他不是一个很好的游泳运动员，有哮喘病，而且不喜欢冷水。
The boat is going down and it's tilting.
船正在下沉并且倾斜。
And we're in the middle of the water and we have no idea what to do.
我们在水中央，不知道该怎么办。
And I'm freaking out.
我吓坏了。
I'm really fully freaking out.
我真的彻底吓坏了。
I'm not hearing much.
我没听到太多。
But through the ether, Ben's voice comes through and says, is anybody else noticing that occasionally one of us will ask a question and nobody will respond?
但本的声音透过以太传来，说道，还有其他人注意到我们中的一个人偶尔会问一个问题却没有人回应吗？
A silent panic falls over us.
一种无声的恐慌笼罩着我们。
It is a moment that demands leadership, decisive action.
这是一个需要领导力和果断行动的时刻。
We turn our heads to our captain, Max.
我们把头转向我们的船长麦克斯。
He found this boat, named it after his mother, sold us on the dream.
他找到了这艘船，以他母亲的名字命名，卖给了我们梦想。
And now, like a monomaniacal Ahab in a Red Sox cap, Max denies there's any problem at all.
现在，就像戴着红袜队帽子的偏执狂亚哈一样，马克斯否认有任何问题。
When we were all wondering what to do, one element of it was everyone saying, should we call for help?
当我们都想知道该怎么做时，每个人都在说，我们应该寻求帮助吗？
And Max saying no. Max had this really strong instinct.
麦克斯说不。麦克斯有这种非常强烈的本能。
Don't call for help.
不要寻求帮助。
Don't call.
别打电话。
I know what I'm doing.
我知道我在做什么。
I think Max was trying to cover up for this massive fuck up.
我认为麦克斯是想掩盖这件大事。
And so he was sort of in denial that there was a problem.
所以他有点否认存在问题。
Even up to the point where the entire back end of the boat was fully underwater, the entire motor was underwater, Max was still saying it's fine, there's no problem.
甚至到了整个船尾都在水下，整个马达都在水下，麦克斯还在说没事，没问题。
But there are two.
但有两个。
One, we're stranded in the water.
第一，我们被困在水里了。
And two, our captain has gone mad.
第二，我们的队长疯了。
We only know how to deal with the last one.
我们只知道如何处理最后一个。
Everyone shouts at Max.
每个人都对麦克斯大喊。
Admit it.
承认吧。
We are in trouble.
我们有麻烦了。
You need to call for help.
你需要打电话寻求帮助。
But Max is sitting in the captain's seat, one hand clenched around the steering wheel and the other turning the key in the ignition, like the engine wasn't underwater.
但麦克斯坐在船长的座位上，一只手紧握方向盘，另一只手转动点火钥匙，就像发动机不在水下一样。
The expression "hope floats?" Not true and very dangerous.
表达“希望漂浮？”不正确而且非常危险。
On one end of the spectrum of willingness to acknowledge this situation, there was Max, who was just face forward, pretending he was still driving a boat.
麦克斯愿意承认这种情况，他只是脸朝前，假装他仍在驾驶一艘船。
And then at the other end of the spectrum, the other extreme, was there was-- there was this one wild card.
然后在光谱的另一端，另一个极端，有一个外卡。
Cath-- oh, my god.
凯丝——哦，天啊。
I don't know anything about her.
我对她一无所知。
She just sort of appeared in a beam of clarity.
她只是出现在一道清晰的光束中。
Cath Spangler went to college with Max.
凯丝·斯潘格勒 (Cath Spangler) 和麦克斯 (Max) 一起上大学。
She is the ninth passenger and the one outsider.
她是第九名乘客，也是一名外人。
When Max invited her on a ride, he had not mentioned there would be so many of us.
当马克斯邀请她去兜风时，他没有提到我们会有这么多人。
For most of the trip, she was shy and off to the side.
在旅途的大部分时间里，她都很害羞，站在一边。
But now the strangers surrounding her are screaming at the one person she knows.
但现在她周围的陌生人正在对着她认识的人尖叫。
And he has lost control.
他已经失去了控制。
I remember, just really clearly, looking over at Max, sitting there in the captain's seat, with his eyes kind of downcast, frozen.
我记得非常清楚，我看着坐在船长座位上的马克斯，他的眼神有点低垂、冰冷。
And something-- there was a switch that flipped in me.
还有一些事情——我体内有一个开关打开了。
If the boat sinks and all of us are in the harbor, we're no longer visible to anyone.
如果船沉了，而我们所有人都在港口里，那么任何人都看不到我们。
We're just little heads.
我们只是小脑袋。
No one can see us.
没有人能看到我们。
We can tread water for a while.
我们可以在水里踩一会儿。
What if we get a cramp, get tired, swallow water?
如果我们抽筋、疲倦、吞水怎么办？
How long can we do that for?
我们能这样做多久？
What if the current takes us out further?
如果水流把我们带得更远怎么办？
I didn't want to let myself go there, but I remember thinking that people were going to die.
我不想让自己去那里，但我记得我当时想人们会死。
If we don't do something, people are going to die today.
如果我们不采取行动，今天人们就会死去。
And in that moment, Captain Cath is born.
就在那一刻，凯斯船长诞生了。
My mind went really blank and calm.
我的大脑变得一片空白和平静。
And it was like a calculator filled my brain.
就像计算器充满了我的大脑。
And I was just very logical and I started focusing on actions.
我非常有逻辑，开始专注于行动。
Where are the life vests?
救生衣在哪里？
How many do you have?
你有多少个？
I took on this voice that was very bossy and direct.
我采用了这种非常专横和直接的声音。
Like Boston's own Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting, she begins solving the unsolvable problem.
就像《心灵捕手》中波士顿自己的马特·达蒙一样，她开始解决无法解决的问题。
Namely, if nine passengers get in a boat which turns out to only have eight life jackets-- not one per person as we had been led to believe, Max-- and now some of those life jackets are unreachable in the underwater part of the boat, how many passengers are totally screwed?
也就是说，如果九名乘客上了一艘船，结果发现这艘船只有八件救生衣——而不是像我们所相信的那样每人一件，麦克斯——而现在其中一些救生衣在船的水下部分是够不到的，有多少乘客完全被搞砸了？
I remember looking over and there was this guy who looked really pale.
我记得我抬头一看，发现有一个人，脸色苍白。
He just didn't look like he was doing very well.
他只是看起来表现不太好。
And I asked him-- I said, can you swim well?
我问他——我说，你游得好吗？
And he said, no, I can't.
他说，不，我不能。
And I just gave him the life vest.
我刚刚给了他救生衣。
I took it off my neck, put it on his, and said, well, I can.
我把它从我的脖子上取下来，戴在他的脖子上，然后说，好吧，我可以。
Cath hands out the remaining life jackets based on need.
凯丝根据需要分发剩余的救生衣。
The water is rising.
水位正在上涨。
We are coming apart and preparing to abandon ship.
我们正在解散并准备弃船。
And that's when I got on top of the bow of the boat.
就在那时我登上了船头。
She climbs to the front of the boat and starts waving her arms to the pilots in airplanes over our heads, to nearby boats in the water, anyone who might be able to come to our rescue.
她爬到船头，开始向我们头顶上的飞机飞行员、附近水中的船只以及任何可能来救援我们的人挥舞手臂。
She was the one person who was like, what the fuck is wrong with you people?
她是一个这样的人，你们这些人到底怎么了？
Of course we need help.
我们当然需要帮助。
And she like stood up on the boat and started waving her arms and trying to get the attention of a boat that I didn't realize was also quite close, that was, like, the rescue boat.
她喜欢站在船上，开始挥舞手臂，试图引起一艘船的注意，我没有意识到那艘船也很近，那就是救援船。
An actual rescue boat just within waving distance.
一艘真正的救援船就在挥手的距离内。
It was so much taller than us, off the waterline.
它比我们高得多，超出了吃水线。
And there were guys on deck, kind of looking down and almost chuckling at us, making light of the situation.
甲板上有人低头看着我们，几乎在咯咯地笑，对这种情况轻描淡写。
And I remember feeling like, they have no idea what we've been through.
我记得当时的感觉是，他们不知道我们经历了什么。
They must have radioed for a tow boat because one arrives within minutes.
他们一定是通过无线电呼叫了一艘拖船，因为一艘拖船在几分钟之内就到达了。
The captain calls down, do I have permission to perform a life rescue?
船长向下呼叫，我有权进行救生吗？
Who says no to that?
谁对此说不？
Toby David I have to confess one thing really fast.
托比·大卫 我必须很快承认一件事。
Toby is admirably honest about what happened next.
托比对接下来发生的事情非常诚实。
I just have to say, I'm sure that, when the rescue boat arrived, that I-- I may have been the first person off of the sinking ship.
我只想说，我确信，当救援船到达时，我可能是第一个从下沉的船上下来的人。
I fucking levitated to that ladder to get off that boat.
我他妈的悬浮到那个梯子上才能下船。
So that's not great for me.
所以这对我来说不太好。
We climbed off the boat to safety.
我们从船上爬到安全的地方。
And just like Matt Damon in Saving Private Ryan, we were going home.
就像《拯救大兵瑞恩》中的马特·达蒙一样，我们要回家了。
Cath says she looks back at this moment a lot, that it's become pivotal to her understanding of herself.
凯丝说，她经常回顾这一刻，这对她了解自己至关重要。
She's proud that she jumped in and saved us.
她为自己跳进去救了我们而感到自豪。
It was a tragic ending for our captain.
对于我们的船长来说，这是一个悲惨的结局。
From the safety of our tow boat, I can still picture him down there, alone on the Marjorie, refusing to abandon ship.
在我们安全的拖船上，我仍然可以想象他在那里，独自在马乔里号上，拒绝弃船。
And that was the last time I ever saw him.
那是我最后一次见到他。
He died that day.
那天他死了。
Yeah, the only honorable thing I could have done.
是的，这是我能做的唯一光荣的事情。
I went down with the ship.
我随船沉没了。
Captain Max died.
麦克斯船长死了。
My friend Max survived.
我的朋友麦克斯活了下来。
A little bruised-- his ego and his reputation for big schemes with little consequences.
有点受伤——他的自尊心和他因大计划而没有造成什么后果的名声。
And while the boat became the story Sophie likes to tell more than any other, not Max.
虽然船成了索菲最喜欢讲的故事，但麦克斯却不是。
This is a story I have told the least.
这是我讲得最少的一个故事。
I can't overstate to you how big a failure this was, one of the most embarrassing failures of my entire life.
我无法向你夸大这是一次多么严重的失败，这是我一生中最令人尴尬的失败之一。
It's a thing I look back at and shudder.
这是我回头看并感到不寒而栗的事情。
Max spent more than a decade feeling terrible.
麦克斯十多年来一直感觉很糟糕。
The rest of us spent that same amount of time wondering why our friend Max was trying to gaslight us and sink us.
我们其他人也花了同样多的时间想知道为什么我们的朋友麦克斯试图用煤气灯点燃我们并击垮我们。
But we'd never talked about it.
但我们从来没有谈论过它。
None of us have.
我们都没有。
And when Max and I catch up for this story, it becomes clear that he has a completely different memory of how it all went down.
当马克斯和我追述这个故事时，很明显他对这一切的发生有着完全不同的记忆。
He says he actually did the one thing we were begging him to do.
他说他实际上做了我们恳求他做的一件事。
I remember a lot of things.
我记得很多事情。
I remember calling Sea Tow and telling them where we were.
我记得打电话给Sea Tow并告诉他们我们在哪里。
I remember that--
我记得——
Go ahead.
继续吧。
Ike Sriskandarajah Did you just say you called Sea Tow?
Ike Sriskandarajah 你刚才是不是说你给 Sea Tow 打电话了？
Sea Tow is boat AAA, the boat that performed the life rescue.
Sea Tow 是执行救生任务的 AAA 船。
Max says he called them on his phone way back when the engine first stalled out.
马克斯说，早在发动机第一次熄火时，他就打电话给他们。
That's the reason we got saved that day.
这就是我们那天得救的原因。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't think I made a big deal about calling Sea Tow.
我不认为我给 Sea Tow 打电话有什么大不了的。
No. I didn't believe him.
不，我不相信他。
I just interviewed five of our friends who had no memory of this at all.
我刚刚采访了我们的五个朋友，他们对此完全没有记忆。
So I followed up with Sea Tow.
所以我跟进了Sea Tow。
Turns out they keep meticulous records.
事实证明，他们保存着细致的记录。
And there it was, a call for a tow, July 17, 2010, charged to our membership under Max's name.
2010 年 7 月 17 日，我们接到了拖车电话，费用以马克斯的名义记在我们的会员名下。
It cost $50.
花了 50 美元。
Help was on the way.
帮助正在路上。
I guess in the chaos, Max just forgot to tell everybody on the boat.
我猜在混乱中，麦克斯只是忘了告诉船上的每个人。
Look, I-- clearly, I owe them an explanation.
听着，我——显然，我欠他们一个解释。
But a lot of our passive-aggressive-ass friends have never brought up this day with me.
但我们的很多消极攻击性的朋友从来没有跟我提起过这一天。
Our story had hardened over a decade, but was built on a lie.
我们的故事十多年来已经变得更加坚定，但却是建立在谎言之上的。
Max had kind of done the right thing.
马克斯做了正确的事。
And Cath wasn't the one who saved us.
凯丝并不是拯救我们的人。
The sadistic editors at This American Life made me invite Cath back to share our findings.
《美国生活》的虐待狂编辑让我邀请凯丝回来分享我们的发现。
Max called for help.
麦克斯呼救。
And apparently he was the one who got help to arrive, not you, waving.
显然是他得到了帮助才到达的，而不是挥手的你。
That just feels impossible.
就是感觉不可能。
Ike Sriskandarajah But I think it's true.
Ike Sriskandarajah 但我认为这是真的。
And I'm so sorry that's the way that it happened.
我很抱歉事情就是这样发生的。
I'm just completely confused.
我只是完全困惑了。
So this whole time, he has been the hero of this story but no one has known it?
那么一直以来，他就是这个故事的主人公，却没有人知道？
It's so perfect that this is the finding.
太完美了，这就是这个发现。
It's so unlike Max, too, to not claim that, claim the credit of it and say, no, I did that.
这也太不像麦克斯了，他不声称这一点，声称这是我的功劳，然后说，不，我做到了。
The final curse on the Marjorie had the longest fuse and a devastating payload.
马乔里号的最后诅咒拥有最长的引信和毁灭性的有效载荷。
It added an asterisk to a heroic deed and turned a failed captain into a guy who kind of did the right thing, but was really confusing about it.
它为英雄事迹添加了一个星号，并将一个失败的队长变成了一个做了正确事情的人，但确实令人困惑。
Please heed this precautionary tale.
请留意这个预防性故事。
Beware of curses.
谨防咒骂。
Don't try to be a Massachusetts boat person for just $400.
不要试图只花 400 美元就成为马萨诸塞州的船民。
And if you already called Sea Tow, tell your friends.
如果您已经致电 Sea Tow，请告诉您的朋友。
(SINGING) Well, gather round and hear this tale, all you sons and daughters, of a cursed motor boat at the bottom of the Boston Harbor.
（唱）好吧，你们所有的儿子和女儿们，聚集在一起听听这个关于波士顿港底部一艘被诅咒的摩托艇的故事。
Captain Max sold them on a dream of heading out to sea, you see.
马克斯船长向他们推销了出海的梦想，你看。
They emptied out their bank accounts and bought the Marjorie-re.
他们掏空了银行账户并购买了 Marjorie-re。
Marjorie, Marjorie.
玛乔丽，玛乔丽。
They emptied out their bank accounts and bought the Marjorie.
他们掏空了银行账户，买下了玛乔丽。
Well, Captain Max was standing proud on that fateful morning, torso bare and the wind in his hair.
好吧，在那个决定性的早晨，麦克斯船长骄傲地站着，赤裸着躯干，头发随风飘扬。
Suddenly, without warning, the engine died, the children cried, and the ship filled up with water.
突然，在没有任何警告的情况下，发动机熄火了，孩子们哭了，船里充满了水。
Captain Max said, I'll see you all at the bottom of the Boston Harbor, in Davy Jones's locker.
麦克斯船长说，我们会在波士顿港底部戴维·琼斯的储物柜里见。
He said he'd never call for help, but did he anyhow?
他说他永远不会寻求帮助，但他确实这么做了吗？
Or was it Cath that waved them down?
或者是凯丝挥手让他们下去？
We'll never find out now.
我们现在永远不会知道了。
Loose lips can sink this ship.
嘴唇松动会使这艘船沉没。
Secrets never travel.
秘密永远不会传播。
Captain Max in his watery grave, how do you like them apples?
麦克斯船长在他的水坟墓里，你喜欢这些苹果吗？
Marjorie, Marjorie.
玛乔丽，玛乔丽。
Captain Max went down with his ship.
马克斯船长和他的船一起沉没了。
How do you like them apples?
你喜欢这些苹果吗？
So that story was by Ike Sriskandarajah.
这个故事是艾克·斯里斯坎达拉贾（Ike Sriskandarajah）写的。
The sea shanty was written for us by Sam Geller, who was there that fateful day.
海上小屋是萨姆·盖勒为我们写的，他在那决定性的一天就在那里。
He is Captain Max's brother.
他是麦克斯船长的兄弟。
He performs as Samson the Truest.
他扮演最真实的参孙。
Other writers in the song, Aeriel East, Chances with Wolves, and Glasser.
这首歌的其他创作者还有 Aeriel East、Chances with Wolves 和 Glasser。
Gordon Minette played the accordion.
戈登·米内特（Gordon Minette）演奏手风琴。
Coming up, ship gets a new captain who immediately throws half the crew overboard, he says, to save the ship from sinking.
他说，即将到来的这艘船迎来了一位新船长，他立即将一半的船员扔到了船上，以挽救船免于沉没。
We hear an insider's true, real-life account.
我们听到了一位内部人士真实的、真实的叙述。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, What I Was Thinking as We Were Sinking.
今天的节目，《我们下沉时我在想什么》。
We have stories today about what goes through your head in the middle of calamities, big and small, and what those thoughts tell us.
今天我们有一些故事，讲述在大大小小的灾难中你的脑海中闪过什么，以及这些想法告诉我们什么。
We have arrived at Act 2 of our program.
我们已经到了计划的第二幕。
Act 2, "Going Down With the Censorship."
第二幕，“废除审查制度”。
So the SS Marjorie cost our producer Ike and his friends about $400 each.
因此，SS Marjorie 花费了我们的制作人 Ike 和他的朋友每人约 400 美元。
The ship we're going to talk about next is significantly more expensive by $44 billion.
我们接下来要讨论的这艘船明显贵了 440 亿美元。
That's what Elon Musk paid for Twitter back in October.
这就是埃隆·马斯克 (Elon Musk) 10 月份收购 Twitter 时支付的价格。
The company has been sort of famously foundering in the water since then.
从那时起，该公司就陷入了困境。
And some of the most revealing details about what it has been like on the inside at that company, among the people who work there, have come from reporter Casey Newton and his colleague, Zoe Schiffer.
关于该公司内部以及在那里工作的人员的情况，一些最具启发性的细节来自记者凯西·牛顿(Casey Newton)和他的同事佐伊·希弗(Zoe Schiffer)。
They make the newsletter, Platformer.
他们制作了时事通讯，平台游戏。
They've had so many scoops.
他们已经有很多独家新闻了。
Casey also co-hosts a podcast called Hard Fork that The New York Times puts out about the tech industry that, can I say, I love.
凯西还共同主持了一个名为“硬分叉”的播客，这是《纽约时报》发布的关于科技行业的播客，我可以说，我喜欢这个行业。
Highest recommendation.
最高推荐。
But to get back to our story, there's been one person in particular at Twitter that Casey has been wanting to talk to, a very senior employee at the company who, while just doing his job, ended up having to take on two of the most powerful people on the internet and in the world.
但回到我们的故事，凯西一直想与推特上的一个人交谈，他是该公司的一位非常资深的员工，他在尽自己的职责的同时，最终不得不与互联网上和世界上最有权势的两个人较量。
Those two people-- Elon Musk and the former President of the United States, Donald Trump.
这两个人——埃隆·马斯克和美国前总统唐纳德·特朗普。
Casey wanted to hear all about that, and also what it was like for the guy, what he was thinking, what he was doing, once Elon took over and the place started taking on water.
凯西想听听这一切，以及当埃隆接管并且这个地方开始进水时，这个人的感受是什么，他在想什么，他在做什么。
Here's Casey Newton.
这是凯西·牛顿。
Yoel Roth did a lot of jobs at Twitter over the years, but it was always the same kind of job.
多年来，约尔·罗斯 (Yoel Roth) 在 Twitter 做过很多工作，但总是同一类工作。
He was in the content moderation business, one of those people who decides which of your posts can stay up on the internet and which ones need to come down.
他从事内容审核业务，是决定哪些帖子可以留在互联网上、哪些帖子需要删除的人之一。
And he got his first glimpse at what life as a content moderator would be like while he was in college, on a date.
他第一次看到内容管理员的生活是在大学期间的一次约会中。
He's gay.
他是同性恋。
So am I.
我也是。
I went out for drinks with somebody without knowing where he worked.
我和一个人出去喝酒，但不知道他在哪里工作。
And he volunteered that he actually worked for the parent company of the website Manhunt, which was one of the early gay websites that was very specifically sexually focused.
他自告奋勇说，他实际上是在 Manhunt 网站的母公司工作，该网站是早期专门针对性的同性恋网站之一。
And even in these early days of the web, there was already a team of people who were deciding what you could and couldn't post there.
即使在网络的早期，已经有一个团队决定你可以在那里发布什么，不能在那里发布什么。
They had a set of convoluted rules about what types of nudity you were allowed to show in which places.
他们有一套复杂的规则，规定你可以在哪些地方展示什么类型的裸体。
So nudity, fine, but not all nudity.
所以裸体很好，但不是全部裸体。
So there were specifics.
所以有具体细节。
And he described to me a system of color-coding images, of red, yellow, green, and then a team of people who were responsible for making those designations.
他向我描述了一个颜色编码图像系统，包括红色、黄色、绿色，然后是一组负责进行这些指定的人员。
And I'll never forget.
我永远不会忘记。
He said, the people doing these reviews are almost entirely straight women.
他说，做这些评论的人几乎全是异性恋女性。
And I was just floored in that moment of thinking, God, there's a team of heterosexual women who have to look at the depraved things that gay men are posting on the internet?
在那一刻我陷入了思考，天哪，有一群异性恋女性必须看看男同性恋者在互联网上发布的堕落内容？
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
And--
还有——
Right, the senior hole pic specialist at Manhunt was some poor woman.
是的，Manhunt 的高级洞图片专家是个可怜的女人。
That's not an exaggeration.
这并不夸张。
Casey Newton Yeah, We hope she's doing OK.
凯西·牛顿：是的，我们希望她一切都好。
Are you out there?
你在外面吗？
Call into This American Life.
呼唤美国生活。
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
Casey Newton I'm sorry for what you saw.
凯西·牛顿 我对你所看到的感到抱歉。
I was like, aha, that's my dissertation topic.
我当时想，啊哈，这就是我的论文主题。
Yoel was in grad school.
约尔正在读研究生。
He got his PhD and, soon after, a job at Twitter.
他获得了博士学位，不久之后就在 Twitter 找到了一份工作。
They gave him a small desk.
他们给了他一张小桌子。
This was 2015.
那是2015年。
The office's most striking feature was probably--
这间办公室最引人注目的特点可能是——
A giant, life-sized, cardboard cutout of Justin Bieber sat directly behind my desk.
贾斯汀·比伯 (Justin Bieber) 的真人大小的巨型纸板剪纸就放在我的桌子后面。
[LAUGHTER] Justin Bieber obviously being a major figure in early Twitter.
[笑声] 贾斯汀·比伯 (Justin Bieber) 显然是早期 Twitter 的主要人物。
Maybe the most popular user, at least for some period of time.
也许是最受欢迎的用户，至少在一段时间内是这样。
Yes.
是的。
There were rumors that Twitter had entire servers just dedicated to serving Justin Bieber-related traffic.
有传言称 Twitter 的整个服务器专门用于服务贾斯汀·比伯相关的流量。
Besides Bieber, what Twitter was really known for back then was its trolls.
除了比伯之外，推特当时真正出名的是它的巨魔。
The site was plagued by users harassing other users, particularly women.
该网站饱受用户骚扰其他用户，尤其是女性用户的困扰。
That year, I co-reported a story about how the site's then-CEO, Dick Costolo, wrote a memo saying, quote, "We suck at dealing with abuse and trolls on the platform and we've sucked at it for years."
那一年，我共同报道了一个故事，内容是该网站时任首席执行官迪克·科斯特罗 (Dick Costolo) 写了一份备忘录，引用说：“我们在处理平台上的虐待和喷子方面表现不佳，而且多年来我们一直在这方面表现不佳。”
That was the backdrop for Yoel's new job.
这就是约尔接受新工作的背景。
As an intern at Twitter the previous year, he spent part of his time moderating content.
去年作为 Twitter 的实习生，他花了一部分时间来审核内容。
He'd seen this video of a dog getting abused.
他看过这段狗被虐待的视频。
He removed it from the site, but for years, it haunted him.
他将其从网站上删除，但多年来，它一直困扰着他。
It was never even like the specific image.
它甚至不像具体的图像。
I couldn't-- I couldn't tell you what the dog looked like or what the video was.
我不能——我不能告诉你那只狗长什么样或者视频是什么。
I just remember its existence.
我只记得它的存在。
And I remember that feeling of seeing it and then of clicking-- I think the button said "No."
我记得看到它然后点击的感觉 - 我认为按钮说“不”。
More than anyone ever talks about, it's this mostly invisible job of content moderation that makes Twitter usable for the average person.
比任何人谈论的更多的是，正是这种几乎看不见的内容审核工作使 Twitter 对普通人来说变得可用。
It's what makes every forum on the internet usable at all.
这使得互联网上的每个论坛都可用。
And Yoel was good at the job.
约尔很擅长这项工作。
He got promotion after promotion in his department, what Twitter and a lot of other tech companies now call Trust and Safety.
他在自己的部门不断晋升，推特和许多其他科技公司现在将其称为“信任和安全”。
It's a hard job.
这是一项艰苦的工作。
And it just kept getting more complicated.
而且事情变得越来越复杂。
The way Yoel tells it, there was a wild new case to examine almost every day-- foreign governments impersonating their enemies, real people organizing harassment campaigns, impossible debates over what should count as hate speech, and regular meetings over whether to put labels on tweets that didn't quite violate the company's rules but would benefit from more context, like about COVID.
按照约尔的说法，几乎每天都有新的案例需要审查——外国政府冒充他们的敌人，真人组织骚扰活动，关于什么应该算作仇恨言论的不可能的辩论，以及定期召开会议讨论是否在不完全违反公司规则但会从更多背景信息中受益的推文上贴上标签，比如关于新冠病毒的内容。
In 2020, the biggest case yet landed on Yoel's desk.
2020 年，迄今为止最大的案件落在了 Yoel 的办公桌上。
It was a case about a user who kept causing problems.
这是一个关于一个用户不断造成问题的案例。
And this guy's fans were even more rabid than Justin Bieber's.
这家伙的粉丝比贾斯汀·比伯的粉丝还要狂热。
It was the President of the United States, Donald Trump.
这是美国总统唐纳德·特朗普。
This is a couple of months into the pandemic.
现在已经是大流行几个月后的事了。
Trump had tweeted that mail-in ballots in that year's election were going to lead to widespread fraud.
特朗普曾在推特上表示，当年选举中的邮寄选票将导致广泛的欺诈行为。
And just to lay my own cards on the table, I thought that was really bad because they won't lead to widespread fraud.
只是为了把自己的牌摆在桌面上，我认为这真的很糟糕，因为它们不会导致广泛的欺诈。
Anyway, Twitter's policies prohibited misleading people about the voting process the way Trump was doing.
不管怎样，推特的政策禁止像特朗普那样在投票过程上误导人们。
But the company had never taken action against the president's tweets before.
但该公司此前从未对总统的推文采取过行动。
Yoel had to decide what to do.
约尔必须决定该怎么做。
I didn't see a basis for changing the policy, modifying it, winking at it, squinting and finding a violation-- there was no way around it.
我没有看到改变政策的依据，修改它，对它眨眼，眯着眼睛寻找违规行为——没有办法绕过它。
It was clearly a violation of our policy.
这显然违反了我们的政策。
Truthfully, there was a lot of nervousness about crossing this line-- for the first time, taking action on a tweet from the President of the United States.
说实话，第一次跨越这条界限，对美国总统的推文采取行动，人们感到非常紧张。
The company decided that instead of removing the president's post, it would put a label under it, a label that just said, "Get the facts about mail-in ballots," with a link to a page that pushed back on Trump's claims.
该公司决定不删除总统的帖子，而是在其下方贴上一个标签，标签上只写着“获取有关邮寄选票的事实”，并附有一个反驳特朗普言论的页面链接。
At a certain point, when it became clear that yes, this was going to happen, it became a question of who could push the button.
在某个时刻，当人们清楚地知道这将会发生时，问题就变成了谁可以按下按钮。
On some level, we probably understand that, in a moment like this, someone has to take a physical action to type the words, "Get the facts about mail-in ballots" and click the button to attach the label to the post.
在某种程度上，我们可能明白，在这样的时刻，有人必须采取实际行动来输入“获取有关邮寄选票的事实”的文字，然后单击按钮将标签附加到帖子上。
I've talked to dozens of content moderators over the years, but I've never talked to someone who had moderated the president of the United States.
多年来，我与数十位内容版主交谈过，但我从未与曾担任过美国总统的版主交谈过。
When it came time to take action, only a handful of people at Twitter had the power to do it.
当需要采取行动时，推特上只有少数人有能力这样做。
The company had locked down access after an incident where a former contractor, on his last day working there, briefly deactivated Trump's account.
在一名前承包商在该公司工作的最后一天短暂停用特朗普的账户后，该公司关闭了访问权限。
Shout out to Bhatiyar Duysak, who says it was an accident.
向 Bhatiyar Duysak 大声喊叫，他说这是一次意外。
Also Twitter had just introduced this idea of putting labels on misinformation a couple of weeks before.
此外，推特几周前刚刚提出了给错误信息贴上标签的想法。
And so it was this perfect storm where it required elevated access and knowledge of this incredibly convoluted system for applying these labels.
因此，这是一场完美的风暴，需要提高对这个极其复杂的系统的访问和知识来应用这些标签。
And I was the only one who knew how to do it.
我是唯一知道如何去做的人。
And so I got an instruction from my boss that said, all right, we're going to do this.
所以我收到了老板的指示，说，好吧，我们就这么做。
Also, because this is how life goes, Yoel and his husband were moving houses the day all this happened.
而且，因为生活就是这样，在这一切发生的那天，约尔和他的丈夫正在搬家。
I excused myself from wrangling the dog and the movers and the relocation of stuff, and sat in the front seat of the car with my cell phone tethered to my work laptop.
我借口不去跟狗、搬家工人以及搬东西的事情争吵，坐在车的前排座位上，把手机连接到工作笔记本电脑上。
I was on a video call with some of the other leaders at the company who were making this decision.
我正在与公司其他一些做出这一决定的领导者进行视频通话。
And I remember a countdown where I was going to push the button that would apply the label to this tweet.
我记得在倒计时中，我要按下按钮，将标签应用到这条推文上。
At that same moment, Twitter's communications staff was going to announce the decision.
与此同时，推特的通讯人员正准备宣布这一决定。
And it felt very important, in that moment, for the timing to be exactly joined up for some reason.
在那一刻，出于某种原因，时间的精确结合感觉非常重要。
We counted down.
我们倒数了。
I clicked the button.
我点击了按钮。
And then I refreshed the public view of the tweet and saw the label.
然后我刷新了该推文的公众视图并看到了标签。
And the Communications team said, we've got it from here.
通讯团队说，我们已经从这里得到了。
And I said, OK, I have to go back and deal with the movers now.
我说，好吧，我现在得回去处理搬运工了。
And I hung up the call and I closed my laptop.
我挂断了电话，合上了笔记本电脑。
And I crossed the street, back into my apartment.
我穿过街道，回到我的公寓。
If they made a movie about Trump and Twitter, you can imagine how they'd shoot this scene, with the Twitter employees hunched over a console in a control room, high-fiving.
如果他们制作一部关于特朗普和推特的电影，你可以想象他们会如何拍摄这一场景，推特员工弓着背在控制室的控制台上击掌。
But in reality, of course, it's the opposite.
但实际上，当然，情况恰恰相反。
Most content moderators try really hard not to bring their own political beliefs into the job.
大多数内容审核员都非常努力地不将自己的政治信仰带入工作中。
In a way, the legitimacy of the whole company they work for depends on it.
在某种程度上，他们所工作的整个公司的合法性取决于此。
Shortly before that Trump tweet, Twitter had explained its reasoning for adding labels to misleading information with a blog post.
在特朗普发布推文之前不久，推特在一篇博文中解释了为误导性信息添加标签的原因。
Importantly, the post was signed with Yoel's name.
重要的是，这篇文章的署名是约尔的名字。
But soon after that first label showed up on Trump's tweet, his name was everywhere.
但在第一个标签出现在特朗普的推文上后不久，他的名字就随处可见。
I wake up one morning, the third day that my husband and I are in our new home, to my phone exploding because Kellyanne Conway has just talked about me on Fox News and has said that I'm responsible for the censorship of the president's account and am responsible for censorship at Twitter, more generally.
一天早上，我和丈夫搬进新家的第三天，我醒来时发现手机爆炸了，因为凯莉安·康威刚刚在福克斯新闻上谈到了我，并表示我负责总统账户的审查，更广泛地说，我负责 Twitter 的审查。
And in that moment, everything exploded.
在那一刻，一切都爆炸了。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
We're here today to defend free speech from one of the gravest dangers--
我们今天在这里是为了捍卫言论自由免受最严重的危险之一——
The president held up a copy of The New York Post, with me on it, in the Oval Office as he announced an executive order restricting censorship by Silicon Valley companies.
总统在椭圆形办公室里举着一份《纽约邮报》，上面有我，他宣布了一项限制硅谷公司审查制度的行政命令。
His name is Yoel Roth.
他的名字叫约尔·罗斯。
And he's the one that said that mail-in balloting-- you look-- mail-in-- no fraud.
他就是那个说邮寄投票——你看——邮寄投票——没有欺诈的人。
No fraud, really?
真的没有诈骗吗？
And for weeks, discussion of me and my political opinions and my beliefs became a symbol of everything that was allegedly wrong with Silicon Valley and with the decisions that companies have made.
几周以来，关于我、我的政治观点和我的信仰的讨论成为了硅谷和公司所做决定的一切错误的象征。
Twitter had to hire security to protect Yoel and his husband.
Twitter 不得不聘请保安来保护约尔和他的丈夫。
It had all taken him by surprise.
这一切都让他大吃一惊。
He'd expected the criticism, but not that he would be the target.
他预料到会受到批评，但没想到他会成为目标。
In cases like this, people would usually come after the CEO or the company itself.
在这种情况下，人们通常会追随首席执行官或公司本身。
But soon, Yoel realized that what his harassers were doing was much more effective.
但很快，约尔意识到骚扰他的人所做的事情要有效得多。
If you make companies believe that their employees could be hurt for enforcing the rules, they might be more reluctant to enforce them.
如果你让公司相信他们的员工可能会因为执行规则而受到伤害，他们可能会更不愿意执行这些规则。
Twitter didn't stop though.
但推特并没有停止。
They kept putting labels on his tweets.
他们不断给他的推文贴上标签。
And Trump, of course, lost the election-- though that's probably not how he would describe what happened.
当然，特朗普输掉了选举——尽管他可能不会这样描述所发生的事情。
And after the January 6 attacks at the Capitol, he lost his Twitter account too.
1 月 6 日国会大厦袭击事件后，他也失去了 Twitter 帐户。
Yoel did not press the button on that one, but here's a detail about that day that I love.
约尔没有按下那个按钮，但这里有一个我喜欢的关于那天的细节。
Yeah, there was a technical question about whether it would work or whether Twitter would crash.
是的，有一个技术问题是它是否有效或者 Twitter 是否会崩溃。
Can you actually ban Donald Trump's account--
你真的可以禁止唐纳德·特朗普的账户吗——
Banning somebody with that many followers is actually technically very complicated.
禁止拥有这么多粉丝的人实际上在技术上非常复杂。
When you suspend somebody, Twitter systems have to figure out what to do with all of the people who followed them.
当你暂停某人时，Twitter 系统必须弄清楚如何处理所有关注他们的人。
And--
还有——
In other words, if you follow Trump, Twitter has to remove him from your list of follows.
换句话说，如果你关注特朗普，Twitter 必须将他从你的关注列表中删除。
Which sounds very straightforward.
这听起来非常简单。
But when you have to do that tens of millions of times, immediately-- we had to think about, if we push this button, is the site going to go down?
但是，当您必须立即执行数千万次时，我们必须考虑，如果我们按下此按钮，网站是否会崩溃？
As it turned out, the site stayed up and Trump was banned-- for a while anyway.
事实证明，该网站一直处于关闭状态，而特朗普也被禁止了——无论如何，只是暂时的。
It was such a strange moment.
这真是一个奇怪的时刻。
With the click of a mouse, Twitter had managed to do something that Congress attempted twice and failed-- to punish Donald Trump in a way that had real and immediate consequences for him.
只需点击一下鼠标，推特就成功地做到了国会两次尝试但都失败的事情——以一种对唐纳德·特朗普产生真正而直接的后果的方式惩罚他。
Trump headed off to Mar-a-Lago.
特朗普前往海湖庄园。
Yoel got promoted.
约尔升职了。
He was running the whole department.
他负责管理整个部门。
And that's when another mouthy rich guy started to complain about all the rules on Twitter.
就在那时，另一个多嘴的富翁开始抱怨推特上的所有规则。
That guy was Elon Musk.
那个人就是埃隆·马斯克。
In April 2022, Musk announced he'd acquired a big stake in the company.
2022年4月，马斯克宣布他收购了该公司的大量股份。
A few days after that, he announced his intention to buy it outright.
几天后，他宣布打算直接购买它。
As soon as the news broke, Yoel's employees started asking what it meant for them.
消息一传出，约尔的员工就开始询问这对他们意味着什么。
Elon had been tweeting a lot about free speech and his feeling that Twitter didn't have enough of it.
埃隆在推特上发表了很多关于言论自由的言论，他认为 Twitter 的言论自由还不够。
He posted a photo of six people in dark robes with the caption, "shadow ban council reviewing tweet" and "Truth Social exists because Twitter censored free speech." Also stuff like, "Next, I'm going to buy Coca-Cola and put the cocaine back in," and "Let's make Twitter maximum fun."
他发布了一张六人穿着深色长袍的照片，并配上标题“影子禁令委员会正在审查推文”和“真相社会的存在是因为推特审查了言论自由”。还有诸如“接下来，我要买可口可乐并把可卡因放回去”和“让我们让 Twitter 变得最有趣”之类的内容。
Some employees working in Trust and Safety worried that "maximum fun" might mean Elon would dismantle their whole operation.
一些在信任和安全部门工作的员工担心，“最大的乐趣”可能意味着埃隆会拆除他们的整个业务。
Yoel was willing to give him a chance though.
不过，约尔愿意给他机会。
What I told them and what I sincerely believed was, it's too soon to tell.
我告诉他们的以及我真诚相信的是，现在说还为时过早。
Yeah.
是的。
Yoel Roth People are frequently caricatured and villainized in the media.
尤尔·罗斯 (Yoel Roth) 人们经常被媒体讽刺和恶毒地攻击。
Certainly, I was.
当然，我是。
And that's not a reflection of who they actually are.
这并不能反映他们的真实身份。
And so don't prejudge.
所以不要预先判断。
At the same time, Yoel knew that his more concerned employees might be right, that he was aboard a ship that might be about to sink.
与此同时，约尔知道他那些更关心的员工可能是对的，他正登上一艘可能即将沉没的船。
He knew he needed to be alert for the signs.
他知道他需要对这些迹象保持警惕。
His solution was to make a list, to write down the red lines that he would not cross, no matter what.
他的解决办法是列一个清单，写下无论如何他都不会跨越的红线。
Most days, his job was to enforce other people's rules.
大多数时候，他的工作就是执行别人的规则。
But with Elon coming in, he wanted to write down some rules for himself.
但随着埃隆的加入，他想为自己写下一些规则。
You have to have written policies and procedures so that when the moment comes to make that decision, you just follow the procedure that you had laid out before.
您必须制定书面政策和程序，以便在做出决定时，您只需遵循之前制定的程序即可。
Your whole job was about trying to not make decisions out of impulse and emotion, but by following a playbook.
你的整个工作就是尽量不要出于冲动和情感而做出决定，而是遵循剧本。
And that meant that before Elon took over, you actually had to give yourself a playbook.
这意味着在埃隆接任之前，你实际上必须给自己制定一本剧本。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Casey Newton And so on a notepad by his desk, at his house, he wrote down his red lines.
凯西·牛顿 (Casey Newton) 在他家办公桌旁的记事本上，他写下了他的红线。
"I will not break the law." "I will not lie for him." "I will not undermine the integrity of an election." By the way, if you ever find yourself making a list like this, your job is insane.
“我不会违法。” “我不会为他撒谎。” “我不会破坏选举的公正性。”顺便说一句，如果你发现自己列出了这样的清单，那么你的工作就很疯狂。
Then Yoel wrote down one more rule.
然后约尔又写下了一条规则。
This was a big one.
这是一件大事。
"I will not take arbitrary or unilateral content-moderation action." And--
“我不会采取任意或单方面的内容审核行动。”还有——
So if Elon came up to you just said, ban this person, you weren't going to do that?
所以，如果埃隆走到你面前只是说，禁止这个人，你就不会这么做吗？
That was the limit.
这就是极限了。
Casey Newton Did people on your team show you the lists that they were making too, or talk to you about them?
Casey Newton 您团队中的人是否也向您展示了他们正在制定的清单，或者与您谈论过这些清单？
We did.
我们做到了。
Casey Newton Yoel's list of rules got its first test pretty quickly, on the day Elon officially took over Twitter.
凯西·牛顿·约尔 (Casey Newton Yoel) 的规则清单很快就在埃隆正式接管 Twitter 的那天得到了第一次测试。
It was the end of October.
那是十月底。
Lawyers were finalizing paperwork.
律师正在完成文书工作。
And Twitter staff was attempting to enjoy the annual company Halloween party.
Twitter 员工正试图享受一年一度的公司万圣节派对。
The scene was surreal.
场面非常超现实。
I was.
我是。
Casey Newton Were you dressed up?
凯西·牛顿 你穿好衣服了吗？
I was not.
我不是。
Casey Newton Lots of people did dress up though.
凯西·牛顿（Casey Newton） 不过，很多人都盛装打扮。
Employees brought their kids.
员工带着他们的孩子。
There were balloons and face painting.
有气球和脸部彩绘。
I've talked to so many people who went to this party.
我和很多参加这个聚会的人谈过。
And every one of them has added some bizarre new detail.
每一个都添加了一些奇怪的新细节。
Some people saw a guy dressed as a scarecrow walking around with what appeared to be a handler.
有些人看到一个打扮成稻草人的人带着一个似乎是驯兽师的东西走来走去。
They wondered if it was Musk.
他们想知道这是不是马斯克。
It turned out to be a hired performer.
原来是一个雇来的演员。
As the Halloween party had started, I was sitting in a conference room doing some work.
万圣节派对开始时，我坐在会议室里做一些工作。
And we start hearing rumors that not only has the deal closed, but also the company's executives have been fired.
我们开始听到传言称，不仅交易已完成，而且公司高管也已被解雇。
And at first, it's unconfirmed.
起初，这还没有得到证实。
I get texts from a couple of reporters who asked me, is it true that Vijaya has been fired?
我收到几位记者发来的短信，他们问我，维贾亚是否真的被解雇了？
And I said, no, I just saw her.
我说，不，我刚刚看到她。
She's still online in the company's Slack and Gmail.
她仍然在公司的 Slack 和 Gmail 中在线。
She's-- of course not.
她——当然不是。
Your sources are lying to you.
你的消息来源在骗你。
And then it was true.
然后这是真的。
Such an important lesson-- always trust the reporters.
这是一个非常重要的教训——永远相信记者。
Pretty soon afterward, Yoel gets summoned over to the part of headquarters where Elon and his team had set up shop.
不久之后，约尔被召唤到总部的埃隆和他的团队开店的地方。
He was nervous.
他很紧张。
And I thought, OK, I'm about to be fired.
我想，好吧，我就要被解雇了。
So I walk past a number of my employees.
所以我走过了我的一些员工。
And I don't let on that any of this is happening because I don't want to panic them, because they're there with their kids.
我不会让任何事情发生，因为我不想让他们惊慌，因为他们和他们的孩子在一起。
And so I smile and make jokes about Halloween costumes and walk over to this other part of the office, where somebody who I gather works for Elon Musk in some capacity, but they don't introduce themselves.
于是我微笑着，拿万圣节服装开玩笑，然后走到办公室的另一部分，我在那里找到了一个以某种身份为埃隆·马斯克工作的人，但他们没有自我介绍。
They just say, how do I get access to Twitter's internal content moderation systems?
他们只是说，我如何访问 Twitter 的内部内容审核系统？
[LAUGHTER] And I pause and blink and say, you don't.
[笑声] 我停下来眨眨眼说，你不知道。
That's not going to happen.
那不会发生。
I explained that Twitter is operating under an FTC consent decree, that access to internal systems is regarded as highly sensitive, and that there are both legal and policy reasons why we simply couldn't grant access to somebody.
我解释说，Twitter 是根据 FTC 同意令运营的，对内部系统的访问被视为高度敏感，并且出于法律和政策原因，我们根本无法向某人授予访问权限。
Elon's aide explains that they're worried about an insider threat, someone who might try to sabotage the site on their way out.
埃隆的助手解释说，他们担心内部威胁，有人可能会在离开时试图破坏该网站。
Yoel tells them, sure, I can help with that.
约尔告诉他们，当然，我可以帮忙。
He explains some steps they can take to protect the company.
他解释了他们可以采取的一些措施来保护公司。
And to Yoel's surprise, the aide says, OK, you're going to tell that to Elon.
令约尔惊讶的是，助手说，好吧，你要把这件事告诉埃隆。
And then he leaves and comes back with Elon Musk.
然后他离开并与埃隆·马斯克一起回来。
Who, at this point, I've seen on the internet, but I had not met in person.
到目前为止，我在互联网上见过他，但我还没有亲自见过他。
And so Elon sits down and asks, well, let me see our tools.
于是埃隆坐下来问道，好吧，让我看看我们的工具。
"Our" tools-- he owns the company at this point.
“我们的”工具——此时他拥有这家公司。
And so I show him his own account in Twitter's set of enforcement tools.
因此我向他展示了他自己在 Twitter 执行工具集中的帐户。
And I explain to him what the basic capabilities are.
我向他解释什么是基本能力。
And then I make a recommendation to him of what I think Twitter should do to prevent insider misuse of tools during the corporate transition.
然后我向他提出我认为 Twitter 应该采取哪些措施来防止公司转型期间内部人员滥用工具的建议。
Yoel also had recommendations about the midterms and the upcoming presidential election in Brazil.
约尔还对巴西中期选举和即将举行的总统选举提出了建议。
And as I start to explain some of the rationale related to the Brazilian election, Elon interrupts me and says, yes, Brazil.
当我开始解释与巴西选举相关的一些理由时，埃隆打断了我，说，是的，巴西。
Bolsonaro and Lula are very dangerous.
博尔索纳罗和卢拉非常危险。
We need to protect that.
我们需要保护它。
And I was floored.
我很震惊。
I came into that conversation expecting him to fire me, and instead, he jumps ahead of me to say that he is sensitive to the risks of offline violence in the context of the Brazilian election and wants to make sure that we don't interrupt Twitter's content-moderation capabilities.
我参加那次谈话时本以为他会解雇我，但他却抢在我前面说，他对巴西大选背景下的线下暴力风险很敏感，并希望确保我们不会干扰 Twitter 的内容审核功能。
It was like a dream come true.
这就像梦想成真一样。
You're thinking, maybe I'm actually aligned with this person.
你在想，也许我实际上和这个人是一致的。
And so Yoel stayed.
于是约尔留下来了。
He was surprised in a good way.
他很惊讶。
On Twitter, Elon talked about the company as if it should barely have any rules at all.
在推特上，埃隆谈到公司时就好像它根本不应该有任何规则一样。
But in that moment, one on one, Yoel thought he might turn out to be more reasonable.
但在那一刻，一对一，约尔认为他可能会变得更加理性。
Maybe spending some time inside the company would show Elon the real value of those rules, which is that, without them, you lose your users and you lose your advertisers.
也许在公司呆上一段时间会让埃隆了解这些规则的真正价值，那就是，如果没有它们，你就会失去用户，也会失去广告商。
And Yoel felt like Elon could be sensible.
约尔觉得埃隆可能是明智的。
One of his first requests was to restore the account of The Babylon Bee, a right-wing satire site.
他的第一个请求是恢复右翼讽刺网站巴比伦蜜蜂的帐户。
But Yoel explained how it had broken Twitter's rules and Elon backed off.
但约尔解释了它是如何违反推特规则的，埃隆退缩了。
I found him to be funny.
我发现他很有趣。
I found him to be reasonable.
我发现他很有道理。
I found that he responded well to having evidence-backed recommendations be put in front of him.
我发现他对摆在他面前的有证据支持的建议反应良好。
And I, for a moment, felt that it might be possible for Twitter's Trust and Safety work to not just continue, but also to get better.
有一瞬间，我觉得 Twitter 的信任和安全工作不仅可以继续下去，而且还可以变得更好。
After that, things began to move really quickly.
从那以后，事情开始迅速发展。
About a week later, Elon laid off half the staff.
大约一周后，埃隆解雇了一半的员工。
Suddenly, Yoel was one of the highest-ranking employees from the old Twitter who was still working at the new one.
突然之间，约尔成为了旧 Twitter 中级别最高的员工之一，但他仍在新 Twitter 工作。
And it seemed like Elon liked him.
埃隆似乎很喜欢他。
After some trolls went after Yoel for some of his old tweets, Elon tweeted that he supported him.
在一些巨魔因为约尔的一些旧推文而攻击他后，埃隆在推特上表示支持他。
The US midterm elections took place mostly without incident, same for the election in Brazil.
美国中期选举基本上没有发生任何事件，巴西选举也是如此。
Elon kept pushing his teams to move faster, even as he was laying them off.
埃隆不断敦促他的团队加快行动速度，即使他在解雇他们。
At first, Yoel said that Twitter still had enough content moderators to keep the site safe.
起初，约尔表示 Twitter 仍然有足够的内容审核员来保证网站的安全。
But the cuts kept coming and the work got harder and harder.
但裁员不断，工作也变得越来越难。
Soon, Elon unveiled his first big idea for making lots of money and recouping the $44 billion he had spent to buy the company.
很快，埃隆提出了他的第一个伟大想法，即赚大钱并收回他购买该公司所花费的 440 亿美元。
Yoel and his team thought it was insane.
约尔和他的团队认为这太疯狂了。
The plan-- to let anyone get a blue "verified" badge for their profile for $8 a month.
该计划是让任何人每月花费 8 美元就可以在其个人资料中获得蓝色的“已验证”徽章。
The company called it Twitter Blue.
该公司将其称为 Twitter Blue。
The risks seemed obvious.
风险似乎是显而易见的。
People would just make new accounts to impersonate brands and politicians and other celebrities.
人们只会创建新帐户来冒充品牌、政客和其他名人。
Yoel and his team wrote a seven-page document outlining the risks.
约尔和他的团队编写了一份长达七页的文件，概述了这些风险。
But the badges went on sale anyway.
但徽章还是开始销售了。
And almost immediately, impersonators started buying them and wreaking havoc.
几乎立刻，模仿者就开始购买它们并造成严重破坏。
In maybe the most famous case, someone impersonated the drug maker Eli Lilly and said that insulin would now be free.
也许是最著名的案例，有人冒充制药商礼来公司（Eli Lilly）并表示胰岛素现在将是免费的。
The real Eli Lilly's stock price dropped more than 5%.
真正的礼来公司股价下跌超过5%。
It was a vivid illustration of why companies like Twitter make rules in the first place.
这生动地说明了 Twitter 这样的公司最初制定规则的原因。
Impersonators were suddenly all over the site.
冒充者突然遍布整个网站。
And so, OK, we have to ban them.
所以，好吧，我们必须禁止它们。
But somebody has to review them.
但必须有人来审查它们。
We can't just ban everyone.
我们不能只是禁止所有人。
And so you do that with content moderators.
所以你可以通过内容审核来做到这一点。
And we had instructions to fire more of our contract content moderation staff to cut costs.
我们还收到指示解雇更多合同内容审核人员以削减成本。
All of this seems really self-evident to me.
所有这些对我来说似乎都是不言而喻的。
And I think it would have seemed self-evident even before you launched this.
我认为即使在你推出这个之前，这似乎也是不言而喻的。
But what was Elon's take on this?
但埃隆对此有何看法？
How did he respond to you raising these concerns?
他如何回应你提出的这些担忧？
Do it anyway.
无论如何都要做。
And that was a breaking point for me.
这对我来说是一个转折点。
We reached out to Twitter for comment but didn't hear back.
我们联系 Twitter 寻求评论，但没有收到回复。
Reporters have sometimes gotten automated poop emojis, but I didn't even get that.
记者有时会收到自动的便便表情符号，但我什至都没有收到。
Yoel had spent a long time gaming out scenarios for what might make him leave Twitter.
约尔花了很长时间思考可能让他离开 Twitter 的因素。
He made that whole list.
他列出了整个清单。
He wouldn't break the law for Elon.
他不会为了埃隆而触犯法律。
He wouldn't undermine an election.
他不会破坏选举。
But ultimately what got to him was something he didn't foresee.
但最终发生的事情却是他没有预见到的。
It wasn't on the list.
它不在名单上。
It was something more personal.
这是更个人化的事情。
He knew this bizarre plan wouldn't just make people lose trust in Twitter.
他知道这个奇怪的计划不仅会让人们失去对 Twitter 的信任。
They would lose trust in him.
他们会失去对他的信任。
Behind Elon Musk, I was the most prominent representative of the company, period.
在埃隆·马斯克之后，我是公司最杰出的代表。
And I became aware that when Twitter Blue turned into the predictable hot mess that it was, that people would ask, why didn't the Trust and Safety team see this coming?
我意识到，当 Twitter Blue 变成可预见的混乱局面时，人们会问，为什么信任和安全团队没有预见到这种情况的发生？
Yoel, why are you so bad at your job?
Yoel，你的工作为什么这么糟糕？
The day after the launch, Yoel and Elon got on the phone.
发布后的第二天，约尔和埃隆通了电话。
Elon thought the problem could be fixed if Apple would just hand over all the credit card information of the people doing the impersonations.
埃隆认为，如果苹果交出冒充者的所有信用卡信息，这个问题就可以解决。
Yoel had to explain that Apple would never do that.
约尔不得不解释说，苹果永远不会这样做。
He also asked Elon to slow down the rollout of Blue so that they would have time to hire and train more content moderators to look for impersonators.
他还要求埃隆放慢 Blue 的推出速度，以便他们有时间雇用和培训更多内容审核员来寻找冒充者。
Elon didn't understand why that would take longer than a day.
埃隆不明白为什么这需要超过一天的时间。
I got off that phone call and thought, I can't solve this problem.
挂断电话后我想，我无法解决这个问题。
I will spend the rest of my time at this company trying to bail out a ship that might sink more slowly because I'm there, bailing it out.
我将在这家公司度过余下的时间，努力救助一艘可能沉得更慢的船，因为我在那里救助它。
But I don't want to spend the rest of my life bailing out a sinking ship.
但我不想用我的余生去救助一艘正在下沉的船。
Yoel had made up his mind to leave.
约尔已经决定离开。
He called a couple of his employees to let them know.
他打电话给他的几名员工，让他们知道这一情况。
I knew that that day, I did not want to be walked out of Twitter, after almost eight years, by corporate security.
我知道那一天，我不想在将近八年之后被公司安全部门从 Twitter 中剔除。
I wanted to leave on my own terms.
我想按照自己的意愿离开。
And there was an all-hands going on at the time, Elon's first time addressing the company in person.
当时全体人员齐聚，这是埃隆第一次亲自向公司发表讲话。
And during that all-hands meeting, I hit send on my resignation email, put my laptop in my bag, and walked out of the building for the last time.
在那次全体会议期间，我点击了发送辞职电子邮件，将笔记本电脑放入包中，最后一次走出了大楼。
Did you purposefully send it when you knew he was on stage?
你是知道他在舞台上才故意发的吗？
I knew that it would take some time for the HR team to see it and process it, for that to get to him, for him to react to it.
我知道人力资源团队需要一些时间才能看到并处理它，然后才能传达给他，让他做出反应。
And in that time, I knew I wanted to be back at home and not be in the office.
那时，我知道我想回到家里，而不是待在办公室。
Was it a long email?
这是一封很长的电子邮件吗？
Yoel Roth It was one sentence.
约尔·罗斯 这是一句话。
What was the sentence?
判决是什么？
Yoel Roth "I am no longer able to perform the responsibilities of my job and resign it as of today at 5:00 PM." I remember feeling two things.
Yoel Roth “我无法再履行我的工作职责，并于今天下午 5:00 辞职。”我记得有两件事。
On one hand, I felt relieved.
一方面，我感到如释重负。
And then I also just felt deeply sad.
然后我也感到深深的悲伤。
I just wanted to get home.
我只是想回家。
So I left Twitter's garage and was driving.
于是我离开了 Twitter 的车库，开始开车。
And I was about halfway across the Bay Bridge when I think Zoe broke the news that I left Twitter, and my phone exploded.
当我跨过海湾大桥的一半时，我以为佐伊爆料了我离开推特的消息，我的手机爆炸了。
And I get--
我得到——
Wait.
等等。
You didn't even get across the bridge before Zoe broke the news?
在佐伊透露这个消息之前你还没过桥？
God, I love her.
天哪，我爱她。
Zoe is my coworker.
佐伊是我的同事。
I am immensely proud of her, even if she did kind of mess up Yoel's plans.
我为她感到无比自豪，即使她确实搞乱了约尔的计划。
The car Yoel was driving that day was a Tesla, by the way.
顺便说一下，约尔那天开的车是一辆特斯拉。
He was leasing it.
他正在出租它。
He'd been trying to return it but couldn't get anyone to respond to him.
他一直试图归还它，但无法让任何人回应他。
Maybe they'd all been drafted to work at Twitter.
也许他们都被征召到 Twitter 工作。
Yoel laid low for a few days.
约尔低调了几天。
He spent some time writing, and published an op-ed in The New York Times.
他花了一些时间写作，并在《纽约时报》上发表了一篇专栏文章。
It explained, in a very dry and principled way, why he'd left.
它以一种非常干巴巴、有原则的方式解释了他离开的原因。
That's when some rando account reshared something Yoel had tweeted from 2010 about relationships between adults and minors.
就在那时，一些随机账户转发了 Yoel 2010 年在推特上发布的有关成年人和未成年人之间关系的内容。
Around that time, he'd been working on his dissertation, which called for tech companies to do more to protect minors at gay hookup sites like Grindr.
大约在那个时候，他一直在写论文，论文呼吁科技公司采取更多措施来保护 Grindr 等同性恋交友网站上的未成年人。
But Elon replied with a tweet, quote, "This explains a lot." Then he linked to Yoel's dissertation.
但埃隆在推特上回复道，“这解释了很多。”然后他链接到约尔的论文。
Quote, "Looks like Yoel is arguing in favor of children being able to access adult internet services in his PhD thesis." Not true.
引用：“看起来约尔在他的博士论文中主张儿童能够访问成人互联网服务。”不正确。
But Yoel's phone exploded with abusive messages.
但约尔的手机突然爆炸，充满了辱骂性的信息。
It made the backlash to labeling a Trump tweet look minor by comparison.
相比之下，这使得对特朗普推文贴上标签的强烈反对显得微不足道。
Hundreds of messages per hour, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and also violent, just deeply, endlessly violent.
每小时数百条消息，恐同、反犹太，而且暴力，只是深深的、无休止的暴力。
And he only had to tweet once.
而且他只需要发一次推文。
He didn't even have to say directly, Yoel is a pedophile.
他甚至不用直接说，约尔是个恋童癖者。
He just had to wink and nod in that direction.
他只需眨眨眼睛，朝那个方向点点头即可。
And people took his lead.
人们接受了他的领导。
When Yoel had first used the internet, it felt like a small, self-contained space, separate from what we used to call real life.
当约尔第一次使用互联网时，感觉就像一个狭小的、独立的空间，与我们过去所说的现实生活分开。
But by the time Yoel quit Twitter, the distinction between online and off had collapsed.
但当约尔退出 Twitter 时，线上和线下之间的区别已经消失。
And it had collapsed, in large part, because of the company he worked at, Twitter.
它的崩溃在很大程度上是因为他工作的公司 Twitter。
The site brought together so many of the world's most influential people and then pitted them against each other in these all-consuming daily battles.
该网站聚集了世界上许多最有影响力的人物，然后让他们在这些消耗一切的日常战斗中相互竞争。
And the anger coming out of that could drive people to do things, violent things.
由此产生的愤怒可能会驱使人们做出一些暴力的事情。
Pretty soon, Yoel and his husband were overwhelmed with death threats.
很快，约尔和他的丈夫就收到了死亡威胁。
My husband turned to me one day and said, I've seen you through a lot of being targeted and being harassed.
有一天，我丈夫转向我说，我见过你经历过很多次成为攻击目标和骚扰的经历。
I've never seen you look scared before.
我以前从没见过你害怕的样子。
And that was the moment that we decided to leave our home.
那是我们决定离开家的那一刻。
And so once again, they moved.
于是，他们再一次搬家了。
I met with Yoel at the temporary house that he and his husband are staying at while they look for a new place.
我在约尔和他丈夫寻找新住处时所住的临时房子里见到了他。
After all this, I thought Yoel might want a different kind of job.
经过这一切，我认为约尔可能想要一份不同类型的工作。
I would have wanted a different kind of job.
我本来想要一份不同类型的工作。
The internet had almost killed him, or threatened to anyway.
互联网差点杀了他，或者说威胁要杀了他。
But still, somehow, he's optimistic about what the internet could be in a way you almost never hear anymore.
但不知何故，他仍然对互联网的前景持乐观态度，而这种方式你几乎再也听不到了。
I love the internet.
我喜欢互联网。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
I think-- the internet's power to bring people together and help folks all over the world find connections that matter to them is magical and is one of humanity's greatest achievements.
我认为，互联网将人们聚集在一起并帮助世界各地的人们找到对他们重要的联系的力量是神奇的，也是人类最伟大的成就之一。
I also think the internet can be incredibly dangerous and scary.
我还认为互联网可能非常危险和可怕。
And the work of Trust and Safety is trying to push that back a little bit and to make the internet more of what it can be and less of the dangers of what it could turn into.
信任与安全组织的工作正试图将这种情况推后一点，让互联网发挥更大的作用，并减少它可能变成的危险。
Yoel's idealism about the internet feels radical, given how destabilizing it's been, how destabilizing Twitter has been.
考虑到互联网的不稳定以及推特的不稳定，约尔对互联网的理想主义感觉有些激进。
But I know what he means.
但我知道他的意思。
Back when he was a teenager, the internet gave Yoel a place to discover other gay people, the chance to talk to everyone in the world instantaneously.
当约尔十几岁的时候，互联网为约尔提供了一个发现其他同性恋者的地方，让他有机会即时与世界上的每个人交谈。
It gave him a career.
这给了他一份事业。
It gave me all those things too.
它也给了我所有这些东西。
I remember life before the internet.
我记得互联网出现之前的生活。
It was a less frantic time.
这是一段不那么疯狂的时期。
But it was also a lonelier one.
但这也是一种更孤独的经历。
Here's how Twitter is doing since Yoel left.
以下是 Yoel 离开后 Twitter 的表现。
Hate speech is on the rise.
仇恨言论呈上升趋势。
Advertisers have fled.
广告商纷纷逃离。
Banks that funded Musk's takeover have marked their investments down by more than half.
为马斯克的收购提供资金的银行已将投资减少了一半以上。
Musk himself has warned repeatedly that the site might go bankrupt.
马斯克本人曾多次警告该网站可能会破产。
I kind of hope it does.
我有点希望是这样。
Because what's happening at Twitter right now is teaching us a lesson it's taken us way too long to learn-- that people like Yoel, they're not the enemies of free speech online.
因为现在 Twitter 上发生的事情给我们上了一课，我们花了太长时间才学到这一课——像 Yoel 这样的人，他们并不是网络言论自由的敌人。
They're the ones who make it possible.
他们是使这一切成为可能的人。
If you get any value out of social media at all, it's in part because of them.
如果你能从社交媒体中获得任何价值，部分原因在于它们。
They clean the place up, make it feel good to be there.
他们把这个地方打扫干净，让人感觉很舒服。
They pull us back when we go too far.
当我们走得太远时，他们会把我们拉回来。
And they do censor us.
他们确实审查我们。
And of course we hate them for it.
当然，我们因此讨厌他们。
We convince ourselves we'd do a much better job if it were us.
我们说服自己，如果是我们的话，我们会做得更好。
That's what Elon thought.
埃隆就是这么想的。
Look what happened.
看看发生了什么。
Nobody likes the guy enforcing the rules.
没有人喜欢执行规则的人。
But watching Twitter sink into the ocean, you can't help but notice how much you miss that guy when he's gone.
但看着 Twitter 沉入大海，你会情不自禁地注意到，当他离开时，你是多么想念他。
Casey Newton.
凯西·牛顿。
He's the co-host of the podcast Hard Fork, from The New York Times, who are our collaborators on this.
他是《纽约时报》播客硬分叉的联合主持人，也是我们在这方面的合作者。
He also writes the newsletter Platformer.
他还撰写时事通讯 Platformer。
His story was produced by David Kestenbaum and Davis Land.
他的故事由大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆和戴维斯·兰德制作。
(SINGING) Listen up, children, and give your respect to this tale of a captain in another cursed wreck.
（唱歌）听着，孩子们，向这个关于另一艘被诅咒的沉船中的船长的故事表示敬意。
Elon was his name, commandeering his game.
埃隆是他的名字，掌控着他的比赛。
He took over the ship, seeking only more fame.
他接管了这艘船，只是为了寻求更多的名声。
For his rockets and cars, he had tons of acclaim.
他的火箭和汽车赢得了广泛的赞誉。
But Elon wanted more and it ended in shame.
但埃隆想要更多，结果却以耻辱告终。
Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, Elon wanted more and it ended in shame.
哇哦，哦，哦，哦，埃隆想要更多，但最终却以耻辱告终。
He dragged all the watchmen out from their crow's nests and forced them to walk down the plank to their rest, leaving no one to look out, no one who knew best.
他把所有的看守人从他们的瞭望台里拖了出来，强迫他们走下木板去休息，不让任何人注视，也不让任何一个最了解情况的人。
The ship fell apart in a watery mess.
船支离破碎，一片混乱。
Whoa, oh, oh, oh, the ship fell apart in a watery mess.
哇哦，哦哦，船解体了，一片狼藉。
Our program was produced by Sean Cole with Zoe Chace.
我们的节目由肖恩·科尔和佐伊·查斯制作。
The people who put together today's show include Michal Comite, Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Aviva DeKornfeld, Bethel Habte, Valerie Kipnis, Alaa Mustafa, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Charlotte Sleeper, Alix Spiegel, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Michal Comite、Andrea Lopez Cruzado、Aviva DeKornfeld、Bethel Habte、Valerie Kipnis、Alaa Mustafa、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Charlotte Sleeper、Alix Spiegel、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman and our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的总编辑是 Sarah Abdurrahman，我们的高级编辑是 David Kestenbaum。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Kendra Stanton Lee, Devin Pacholik, Emma Laz-Hirsch, Shawn Allee, Jeremy Butman, Imran Ahmed, and the Sea Tow captain who rescued the Marjorie and spoke with Ike, who would like to remain unnamed.
今天特别感谢 Kendra Stanton Lee、Devin Pacholik、Emma Laz-Hirsch、Shawn Allee、Jeremy Butman、Imran Ahmed 以及救起 Marjorie 并与不愿透露姓名的 Ike 交谈的海上拖船船长。
Our second sea shanty in today's show was also written by Samson the Truest, Sam Geller, strings and engineering by Jesse Kotansky.
我们今天演出中的第二个海上棚屋也是由 Samson the Truest、Sam Geller 编写，弦乐和工程由 Jesse Kotansky 编写。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
You can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free.
您可以完全免费地观看我们的 750 多集档案。
Also, there's a list of favorite shows if you're looking for something to listen to, all kinds of other stuff there.
此外，如果您正在寻找可听的内容，还有一个最喜欢的节目列表，其中还有各种其他内容。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he and Kendall and Roman and Shiv were in the deep end of the pool.
你知道，他和肯德尔、罗曼和希夫都在泳池的最深处。
They were struggling.
他们正在挣扎。
They were nearly drowning until Torey looked up and realized--
他们差点被淹死，直到托雷抬起头意识到——
Look, it's so close.
你看，距离这么近。
We can just swim to Logan.
我们可以游到洛根去。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
(SINGING) Whoa, oh, oh, oh, put a bow on this sinking show.
（唱）哇哦哦哦，给这沉没的表演加个蝴蝶结吧。
Whoa, oh, oh, oh, put a bow on this sinking show.
哇哦哦哦，给这个沉没的节目加个蝴蝶结吧。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。