795: Nine Months Later - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #795 | April 7, 2023 795: Nine Months Later Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 795 集 | 2023 年 4 月 7 日 795：九个月后 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass It happened nine months ago in Georgia.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 事情发生在九个月前的佐治亚州。
I was at work.
我当时正在工作。
And I ate a Reese's cup, which is what I usually eat.
然后我吃了一个里斯杯，这是我平时吃的。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
I just felt really sick immediately.
我立即感到非常恶心。
Taylor was pretty sure-- not totally sure, but pretty sure.
泰勒非常确定——不完全确定，但非常确定。
It was the same with Kae in Ohio.
俄亥俄州的 Kae 也是如此。
She suspected, but it was confusing.
她怀疑，但又很困惑。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I had COVID the same time.
是的，我同时得了新冠病毒。
So it was just like, is it COVID?
所以就像是，这是新冠病毒吗？
Is it not?
不是吗？
I had a little bit of nausea.
我有点恶心。
But honestly, I just chalked it up to not really feeling the best.
但老实说，我只是把它归结为感觉不太好。
Ashley in Texas, she was nauseous too.
德克萨斯州的阿什利（Ashley）也感到恶心。
But her kids had just had a stomach bug.
但她的孩子们刚刚得了胃病。
And so I had been feeling sick, but then everyone else felt better.
所以我一直感觉不舒服，但后来其他人都感觉好多了。
And come the morning of Fourth of July, I just threw up so hard.
到了七月四日的早上，我吐得很厉害。
I don't know if this is too much information, but I wasn't puking out my food from last night.
我不知道这是否是太多信息，但我昨晚的食物并没有吐出来。
I didn't have stomach poisoning.
我没有胃中毒。
I was dry heaving.
我感到干呕。
It was a pregnancy, hormonal, morning-sickness puking, which, if you've puked for entire pregnancies before, it's very specific.
这是一种怀孕、荷尔蒙、孕吐的呕吐，如果你以前整个怀孕期间都呕吐过，那么这是非常具体的。
Katie was one of many women whose boyfriends insisted on multiple tests.
凯蒂是男友坚持进行多项检查的众多女性之一。
Her boyfriend did not believe it.
她的男朋友不相信。
When he saw it, he was like, no, it could be wrong.
当他看到它时，他想，不，这可能是错的。
Take another one.
再拿一张。
Take another one.
再拿一张。
It could be wrong.
这可能是错误的。
And it was one of the digital ones, so it wasn't like we read the lines wrong or anything.
这是数字化的之一，所以我们并没有读错台词或其他什么。
It was a digital one, and it came back quick.
这是一个数字的，而且很快就回来了。
I was like, there's no way it's wrong.
我当时想，这不可能是错的。
It wasn't wrong.
这并没有错。
She was pregnant.
她怀孕了。
They were all pregnant.
她们都怀孕了。
And they all did not want to be pregnant.
他们都不想怀孕。
But they all lived in states that had just banned abortion.
但他们都生活在刚刚禁止堕胎的州。
Taylor in Georgia.
泰勒在佐治亚州。
I was very naive about it.
我对此非常天真。
Because I had totally forgot-- I think Roe v.
因为我完全忘记了——我想罗伊诉。
Wade was maybe in May.
韦德可能是在五月。
It was June.
那是六月。
The Supreme Court overturned Roe v.
最高法院推翻了罗伊诉。
Wade, the ruling that made abortion a constitutional right.
韦德的裁决使堕胎成为宪法权利。
That happened the week before Taylor got pregnant.
这发生在泰勒怀孕前一周。
Yeah.
是的。
So it was new, but it also wasn't something that was important to me on the regular day to day so I got on the phone and I called.
所以这是新的，但它对我来说也不是日常重要的事情，所以我拿起电话打了过去。
And they were super rude to me at Planned Parenthood.
计划生育协会的他们对我非常粗鲁。
I was like, well, I don't even think I'm 6 weeks.
我当时想，好吧，我什至不认为我已经六周了。
And I really wasn't understanding what she was saying because she was saying it doesn't really matter.
我真的不明白她在说什么，因为她说这并不重要。
We're just not going to be able to do it.
我们就是做不到。
And that's when I was like, oh.
那时我就想，哦。
I totally forgot that this is this new thing where I can't go and get it done.
我完全忘记了这是一个新事物，我不能去完成它。
I have to go somewhere else.
我必须去别的地方。
Kae in Ohio was also looking for a clinic.
俄亥俄州的 Kae 也在寻找诊所。
She started calling immediately.
她立即开始打电话。
They didn't have anything for-- I think it was a month or two.
我想他们没有任何东西可以用一两个月。
And, yeah, it was so backed up.
而且，是的，它是如此备份。
And it was like that pretty much everywhere I had checked.
我检查过的地方几乎都是这样。
It was either a few weeks to a couple of months.
时间要么是几周，要么是几个月。
They'd have to wait.
他们必须等待。
It's been nine months since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v.
自最高法院推翻罗伊诉案件以来已有九个月了。
Wade.
韦德。
And to mark that fact, on today's show, we're going to look at what these last nine months have been like for people who discovered they were pregnant right when the laws changed in their states.
为了表明这一事实，在今天的节目中，我们将看看过去九个月里，当所在州的法律发生变化时，那些发现自己怀孕的人过得怎么样。
They came up against a wall trying to find an abortion.
他们在试图堕胎时碰壁了。
These are people who, nine months ago, found themselves waiting for an appointment, waiting to get together money to travel, to make a plan, just to get somebody on the phone.
九个月前，这些人发现自己在等待约会，等待筹钱去旅行，制定计划，只是为了让某人接电话。
And in that waiting, there was time for other things to happen.
在等待的过程中，还有时间发生其他事情。
For instance, Kae in Ohio and Taylor in Georgia were both waiting for an appointment.
例如，俄亥俄州的凯和佐治亚州的泰勒都在等待预约。
And one day, Kae and her boyfriend walked to Dairy Queen.
有一天，凯和她的男朋友步行前往冰雪皇后。
It wasn't until the walk back that we started to talk about it.
直到回去的时候我们才开始谈论这件事。
And we were both kind of joking about the fact that, oh, I wonder what our baby would look like.
我们都开玩笑说，哦，我想知道我们的孩子会是什么样子。
And so we were like discussing like, oh, what color eyes do you think they would have?
所以我们就像在讨论，哦，你认为他们会有什么颜色的眼睛？
What color hair?
什么颜色的头发？
We got to talking about what we were like as kids.
我们开始谈论我们小时候的样子。
And then we were like, yeah, that could be fun to have our own.
然后我们就想，是的，拥有自己的可能会很有趣。
I was watching us talk about how we were.
我看着我们谈论我们的情况。
And I was like, yeah, that would be awesome to have a baby with this person.
我当时想，是的，和这个人生孩子真是太棒了。
Talking through it, I was like, oh my gosh, am I changing my mind?
谈论这件事时，我想，天哪，我改变主意了吗？
Am I going to keep it?
我要保留它吗？
Taylor started wondering the same thing.
泰勒开始想知道同样的事情。
She'd been certain until she waited, first for the ultrasound appointment and then for the abortion.
她一直很确定，直到等待，首先是超声波预约，然后是堕胎。
It was weeks and weeks.
那是几周又几周的时间。
I just spent a lot of time thinking what I wanted, if I felt like-- do I want to have a kid or not?
我只是花了很多时间思考我想要什么，如果我觉得——我想要一个孩子吗？
I think it was the first time-- for someone like me who's very sure of themselves, that was the first time I was ever stumped.
我认为这是第一次——对于像我这样对自己非常有信心的人来说，这是我第一次被难住。
If Kae and Taylor had been pregnant weeks earlier, they both would have gotten abortions at nearby clinics.
如果凯和泰勒几周前怀孕，他们都会在附近的诊所堕胎。
But now this new reality set them both on very different paths as they tried to find their way to an abortion.
但现在，这个新的现实让他们两人走上了截然不同的道路，因为他们试图找到堕胎的方法。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, Nine Months after the end of Roe v.
今天的节目，罗伊诉案件结束九个月后。
Wade.
韦德。
Today's episode was inspired by the excellent reporting of Caroline Kitchener, who covers abortion for the Washington Post.
今天这一集的灵感来自卡罗琳·基奇纳（Caroline Kitchener）的精彩报道，她为《华盛顿邮报》报道堕胎问题。
If you've ever seen her stories, Caroline's reporting just gets inside people's lives in this way that feels very unusual, intimate and very real, and you see how not black and white people's feelings and situations can be.
如果你看过她的故事，就会发现卡罗琳的报道以一种非常不寻常、亲密且非常真实的方式深入人们的生活，你会发现黑人和白人的感受和处境是多么不同。
She'll be with us for the hour.
她会和我们在一起一小时。
Stay with us, OK?
留在我们身边，好吗？
First trimester.
第一个三个月。
So we start today's show in those first few months right after the Court's decision and how this played out for Kae and Taylor, who had both just found out they were pregnant and both wanted abortions.
因此，我们从法院判决后的最初几个月开始今天的节目，以及凯和泰勒的情况如何，他们都刚刚发现自己怀孕了，都想堕胎。
14 states have banned most abortions since Roe was overturned.
自罗伊法案被推翻以来，已有 14 个州禁止大部分堕胎。
And for some people, that's it.
对于某些人来说，就是这样。
They won't get abortions.
他们不会堕胎。
But others, of course, like Kae and Taylor, they're still going to try to get one.
但当然，其他人，比如凯和泰勒，他们仍然会尝试得到一个。
And for them, the state bans are a hurdle that slows things down as they try to figure out how.
对于他们来说，州的禁令是一个障碍，在他们试图找出解决办法时放慢了速度。
The anti-abortion movement is aware that there's this new window of time where maybe they could reach these people and persuade them to change their minds.
反堕胎运动意识到，现在有一个新的时间窗口，他们也许可以接触这些人并说服他们改变主意。
Since the fall of Roe, there's been a big push to do just that, to increase state funding for crisis pregnancy centers, which already get millions of dollars from taxpayers.
自罗伊垮台以来，政府大力推动这一举措，增加国家对危机怀孕中心的资助，这些中心已经从纳税人那里获得了数百万美元。
These are clinics whose whole mission is to convince people to not get abortions.
这些诊所的全部使命是说服人们不要堕胎。
Meanwhile, online, anti-abortion folks are trying to connect with people who are looking for information about abortions.
与此同时，在网上，反堕胎人士正试图与寻找堕胎信息的人们建立联系。
An anti-abortion activist reached both Kae and Taylor during the first trimesters.
在怀孕的前三个月，一位反堕胎活动人士联系了凯和泰勒。
And each responded very differently.
每个人的反应都截然不同。
Caroline Kitchener watched this unfold for each of them in two separate states, week by week.
卡罗琳·基奇纳（Caroline Kitchener）每周都在两个不同的州目睹了这一切的发生。
Just a quick note that we've changed some names in today's show for people who requested that for privacy, though Kae and Taylor are their real names.
请注意，为了保护隐私，我们在今天的节目中更改了一些名字，尽管 Kae 和 Taylor 是他们的真名。
Anyway, here's Caroline.
无论如何，这是卡罗琳。
Kae was in Ohio.
凯在俄亥俄州。
Taylor was in Georgia.
泰勒在佐治亚州。
Both states had just banned abortion after six weeks of pregnancy.
这两个州刚刚禁止怀孕六周后堕胎。
That leaves a super short window to get an abortion.
这就留下了一个非常短的堕胎窗口。
From the beginning, Kate tried to approach her pregnancy the way she approaches other things in her life.
从一开始，凯特就试图像对待生活中的其他事情一样对待怀孕。
She's methodical, organized.
她做事有条理，有条理。
Kae is 25 years old, white, owns her own pet-sitting business.
Kae 25 岁，白人，拥有自己的宠物看护生意。
She kept track of her periods on an app.
她在一个应用程序上记录了自己的经期。
And when she missed one, she took a pregnancy test.
当她错过一次时，她做了妊娠测试。
It was positive.
这是积极的。
She started calling clinics to try to get an appointment for an abortion.
她开始打电话给诊所，试图预约堕胎。
Kae wasn't completely sure she wanted one.
凯并不完全确定她想要一个。
Ever since that walk with her boyfriend to the Dairy Queen, she'd started going back and forth, wondering if maybe she should keep the pregnancy after all.
自从和男友一起去冰雪皇后店之后，她就开始来来回回，想知道自己是否应该继续怀孕。
She made a pro/con list.
她列出了赞成/反对的清单。
She really wasn't sure.
她真的不确定。
Her boyfriend kept telling her that he'd support her no matter what.
她的男朋友一直告诉她，无论如何他都会支持她。
That wasn't exactly helpful.
这并没有多大帮助。
She pressed him, trying to figure out what he actually thought.
她追问他，试图弄清楚他到底在想什么。
Because I was like, well, OK, I'm making up my mind.
因为我当时想，好吧，我已经下定决心了。
I'm going to have an abortion.
我要去堕胎。
How do you feel about that?
你对此有何感想？
That's fine.
没关系。
OK.
好的。
Well, I changed my mind and now I'm thinking about keeping it.
好吧，我改变了主意，现在我正在考虑保留它。
How do you feel about that?
你对此有何感想？
That's fine.
没关系。
And I was like, dude, what the hell?
我当时想，老兄，到底是什么？
Come on, give me something more.
来吧，再给我一些东西。
It was just kind of like wanting almost, like, somebody to tell me what to do because I felt so out of control of the situation that like I just needed somebody, almost, to help me make the decision.
这有点像想要有人告诉我该怎么做，因为我感觉自己对情况失去了控制，我只需要有人来帮助我做出决定。
Finally, Kae found a Women's Center online that offered free ultrasounds and abortion consultations.
最后，凯在网上找到了一家提供免费超声波检查和堕胎咨询的妇女中心。
They had an appointment right away.
他们立刻就约好了。
I remember my first thought was like, wow, this is super purple.
我记得我的第一个想法是，哇，这是超级紫色。
[LAUGHTER] Caroline Kitchener What was purple?
[笑声] 卡罗琳·基奇纳 什么是紫色的？
Pretty much everything-- the walls, some of the decor.
几乎所有东西——墙壁，一些装饰。
I just remember it was very calming and quiet.
我只记得那是非常平静和安静。
I remember them offering me ginger ale.
我记得他们给我提供了姜汁汽水。
And I was just like, yeah, I'll take ginger ale.
我当时想，是的，我要喝姜汁汽水。
I'm super nauseous.
我超级恶心。
The Women's Center was actually a crisis pregnancy center.
妇女中心实际上是一个危机怀孕中心。
Those are places where staff are specially trained to talk people out of having abortions.
这些地方的工作人员接受过专门培训，劝说人们不要堕胎。
But Kae didn't know any of that.
但凯对这些一无所知。
She was there to get an answer to a question.
她来这里是为了得到问题的答案。
Could she get an abortion in Ohio at all?
她能在俄亥俄州堕胎吗？
Was she still under six weeks?
她还不到六周吗？
The crisis pregnancy center gave her an ultrasound.
危机怀孕中心给她做了超声波检查。
I was like, OK, well, how far along am I?
我当时想，好吧，我已经走了多远了？
And they were like, too early to even tell.
他们觉得，现在说还为时过早。
It's too early to say anything.
现在说什么还为时过早。
A trained ultrasound tech should have been able to give her some sense of how far along she was starting around five weeks, which is right where Kae thought she was.
训练有素的超声波技术人员应该能够让她了解她开始的五周左右的进展情况，这正是 Kae 认为她所处的位置。
Obviously, I'm not a doctor so I'm not going to argue argue with somebody.
显然，我不是医生，所以我不会与别人争论。
But I was looking at it.
但我正在看着它。
I'm like, there's nothing you can tell me, absolutely nothing?
我想，你没有什么可以告诉我的，绝对没有吗？
And I was just like, is there anything, any type of estimate?
我就想，有什么、任何类型的估计吗？
And she was like, I can't say.
她说，我不能说。
We'll just have to reschedule another ultrasound about a week from now.
我们只需要在一周后重新安排另一次超声波检查。
The only thing that kept going through my head was I'm going to be past six weeks.
我脑子里唯一一直闪过的事情是我已经过去六个星期了。
Here is something I've heard from abortion providers.
以下是我从堕胎服务提供者那里听到的一些信息。
Crisis pregnancy centers will sometimes delay telling people how far along they are-- or they'll misinform people about how far along they are-- until abortion is no longer an option.
危机怀孕中心有时会延迟告诉人们他们已经怀孕了多久——或者他们会误导人们他们已经怀孕了多久——直到堕胎不再是一种选择。
The doctors tell me they've heard this from patients who come in to see them after going to a pregnancy center.
医生告诉我，他们从去妊娠中心来看望他们的患者那里听到了这样的说法。
Kae had wanted someone to help her decide what to do with this pregnancy, and she'd walked into a place that was specifically set up to do just that.
凯想要有人帮助她决定如何处理这次怀孕，她走进了一个专门为此而设立的地方。
Meanwhile, Taylor could not get an abortion in Georgia because she was too far along.
与此同时，泰勒无法在佐治亚州堕胎，因为她已经走得太远了。
She had to fly to Florida for her appointment, but the soonest one she could get was weeks away.
她必须飞往佛罗里达州参加预约，但最快也要几周后才能预约。
Taylor is 27 years old, Black.
泰勒今年27岁，黑人。
She studied film in college, ended up working an office job at a financial services company.
她在大学学习电影，最终在一家金融服务公司从事办公室工作。
She just got in her first apartment.
她刚刚搬进她的第一间公寓。
Also, she's a little bit nerdy, big Reddit user.
而且，她还是个有点书呆子气的 Reddit 大用户。
When she hears something that piques her interest, her first move is usually to scout around for the relevant subreddit.
当她听到引起她兴趣的事情时，她的第一个举动通常是四处寻找相关的 Reddit 子版块。
So when she learned that her abortion procedure would use a suction tool, Taylor wanted to know more.
因此，当泰勒得知她的堕胎手术将使用抽吸工具时，她想了解更多。
I actually went home and looked it up.
我实际上回家查了一下。
Because I think a lot of times, the only images we have are of people who are pro-life, who want to show you pieces of gutted fetuses.
因为我想很多时候，我们唯一的形象是那些反堕胎的人，他们想向你展示被掏空的胎儿碎片。
So I didn't look up anything like that.
所以我没有查找类似的内容。
But I was able to see an animated version of what it looks like when the actual surgical tool is in the body and it pulls the fetus out.
但我能够看到一个动画版本，展示了当实际的手术工具进入体内并将胎儿拉出时的样子。
A tube would be inserted inside her uterus, a pump, and then the suction.
将一根管子插入她的子宫内，再插入一个泵，然后进行抽吸。
And it made me wonder if the kid was alive or not and if it's going to hurt him if they use that tool.
这让我想知道这个孩子是否还活着，以及如果他们使用那个工具是否会伤害他。
I just thought that there would be a more advanced way to do it that wouldn't be that gruesome.
我只是认为会有一种更先进的方法来做到这一点，而不会那么可怕。
And it made me wonder if it's too barbaric or too archaic or too violent.
这让我想知道它是否太野蛮、太古老或太暴力。
Taylor had pretty uncomplicated feelings about abortion up until now.
到目前为止，泰勒对堕胎的感受并不复杂。
To the extent she'd ever thought about it, she always figured that if she did get pregnant unexpectedly, she'd go to the Planned Parenthood clinic down the road from her apartment, and that would be that.
在她曾经想过的范围内，她总是认为，如果她真的意外怀孕，她会去公寓附近的计划生育诊所，就这样。
But now, she wasn't sure what to do.
但现在，她不知道该怎么办。
She called her aunt, and she said--
她给阿姨打电话，她说——
I don't know if I'm comfortable doing this.
我不知道这样做是否舒服。
And she was just like, listen, you cannot afford a kid.
她就说，听着，你养不起孩子。
That's just the end of the day.
这只是一天的结束。
It doesn't matter if you think the procedure is barbaric.
如果您认为这个过程很野蛮，那也没关系。
They do it every day.
他们每天都这样做。
This is a very common procedure.
这是一个非常常见的过程。
This is not anything you need to be alarmed about.
这不是您需要担心的事情。
You'll be just fine.
你会没事的。
Her aunt reminded her that she didn't have a lot of savings.
阿姨提醒她，她没有很多积蓄。
Her new job wasn't a done deal.
她的新工作还没有完成。
She still had to pass a big exam to keep it.
她还必须通过一场大考试才能保住它。
And she didn't know how to drive.
而且她不知道如何开车。
Taylor says it was kind of insulting.
泰勒说这有点侮辱。
She called her boyfriend.
她给她男朋友打电话。
They were long distance.
他们距离很远。
He had just moved to Florida, and the clinic she'd picked for the abortion was near where he lived.
他刚刚搬到佛罗里达州，她选择的堕胎诊所就在他住的地方附近。
Now, on the phone, she told him she was having doubts.
现在，她在电话里告诉他她有疑问。
He assured her that was totally normal.
他向她保证这完全正常。
And he had his own theory to explain her feelings.
他有自己的理论来解释她的感受。
What he was saying was that he felt like, because he was so far away, maybe the baby was a way for me to feel more connected to him.
他说的是，他觉得，因为他离我太远了，也许孩子是让我感觉与他有更多联系的一种方式。
Then I was just like, what the-- I just immediately was like, you're not that important to me.
然后我就想，什么——我立刻就想，你对我来说没那么重要。
I think I'm pretty sure I'm still in control of how I feel.
我想我很确定我仍然可以控制自己的感受。
If I was having second thoughts, it would 100% be because of me and no one else.
如果我有第二个想法，那100%是因为我，而不是其他人。
You know, a baby is not something that you use to feel closer to another person.
你知道，婴儿并不是用来让你与另一个人感觉更亲近的东西。
It was just such a weird thing to even suggest, me wanting to emotionally connect with him through the baby.
即使提出建议也是一件很奇怪的事情，我想通过婴儿与他建立情感上的联系。
And that's when I went out for other people's opinions.
就在那时我出去征求其他人的意见。
Taylor found herself in the exact same spot as Kae in Ohio, asking other people what she should do.
泰勒发现自己处于与俄亥俄州凯完全相同的位置，询问其他人她应该做什么。
Like Kae, Taylor would soon find herself face to face with the anti-abortion movement, people who were ready and eager to influence her decision.
和凯一样，泰勒很快就会发现自己要面对反堕胎运动，这些人已经准备好并渴望影响她的决定。
When Kae left her appointment at the pregnancy center in Ohio, she still didn't know it wasn't a regular, abortion-friendly medical clinic.
当凯离开俄亥俄州怀孕中心的预约时，她仍然不知道这不是一个常规的、对堕胎友好的医疗诊所。
The staff handed her a gift bag.
工作人员递给她一个礼物袋。
It had a nail file, many, many pamphlets, spearmint gum to help with nausea, and prenatal vitamins, which she did think was a little bit weird.
里面有指甲锉、很多很多小册子、缓解恶心的留兰香口香糖，还有产前维生素，她确实觉得这有点奇怪。
She'd told them that she was planning to get an abortion.
她告诉他们她打算堕胎。
It was the way that they described them that made me think that they weren't completely listening to me.
他们描述自己的方式让我觉得他们并没有完全在听我说话。
Because they were like, well, this is for the health of your pregnancy, moving forward.
因为他们说，好吧，这是为了你怀孕期间的健康，继续前进。
And, well, the pregnancy isn't moving forward.
而且，怀孕并没有进展。
Having somebody give me these options and almost push the option I wanted to the side like it wasn't even really like a choice, that really just irked me.
有人给了我这些选择，却几乎把我想要的选项推到一边，就像它根本不像一个选择一样，这真的让我很恼火。
And I was like, well, this is what I want, and you're not even listening to me.
我当时想，好吧，这就是我想要的，而你甚至没有听我说。
I would expect this from a man or something, but to have other women disregard what I was saying was one of the most irritating things to me.
我希望男人或其他人会这样做，但让其他女人无视我所说的话对我来说是最恼人的事情之一。
Crisis pregnancy centers have carefully thought through all these moves to push people away from abortion.
危机怀孕中心仔细考虑了所有这些举措，以促使人们远离堕胎。
But for Kae, it actually seemed like it was backfiring.
但对于 Kae 来说，这实际上似乎适得其反。
It was making her more sure that she wanted an abortion.
这让她更加确定自己想要堕胎。
When she left, she looked up abortion pills online and found Aid Access, an organization based in Europe that sends pills to all 50 states, even states where abortion is banned.
离开时，她在网上查找堕胎药，发现了 Aid Access，这是一家总部位于欧洲的组织，该组织向所有 50 个州，甚至包括禁止堕胎的州发送堕胎药。
They operate in this kind of legal gray area.
他们在这种法律灰色地带运作。
That made Kae nervous, but she put in the order anyway.
这让凯很紧张，但她还是下了订单。
She still wanted to know how far along she was, so she went back for another scan at the crisis pregnancy center.
她仍然想知道自己已经进展到什么程度，所以她又回到危机妊娠中心进行了另一次扫描。
People who work at crisis pregnancy centers, they see their work as saving lives.
在危机怀孕中心工作的人们将自己的工作视为拯救生命。
That's what they're there for.
这就是他们存在的目的。
I talked to several staffers at centers who told me they find immense fulfillment in convincing even just one person to keep their pregnancy.
我与中心的几位工作人员交谈过，他们告诉我，即使只是说服一个人继续怀孕，他们也会感到巨大的成就感。
And part of that is making the best case they can for not having an abortion.
其中一部分就是为不堕胎提供最好的理由。
Kae got on the ultrasound table for a second time.
Kae 第二次登上超声波检查台。
They asked if she wanted pictures, no, thank you, she said.
他们问她是否想要照片，不，谢谢，她说。
They played her something they called a heartbeat.
他们给她播放了一种叫做“心跳”的音乐。
Technically, doctors say, this is not a heartbeat.
医生说，从技术上讲，这不是心跳。
Kae did not want to hear it.
凯不想听。
I hadn't changed my mind.
我没有改变主意。
Hearing that was just another sound for me.
听到这对我来说只是另一种声音。
And the ultrasound tech, who knew that I did not want to keep this pregnancy, asked me if I wanted to take pictures home with me.
超声波技术人员知道我不想保留这次怀孕，所以问我是否想把照片带回家。
And I immediately was just like, no, I don't want that.
我立刻就想，不，我不想那样。
And she was just like, well, are you sure?
她就说，好吧，你确定吗？
I was like, yeah, pretty sure.
我当时想，是的，很确定。
I was already angry.
我已经很生气了。
And then having her question me, I was just like, you guys really just aren't getting this.
然后她问我，我就想，你们真的不明白这一点。
Again, are you sure you don't want pictures?
再说一次，你确定不想要照片吗？
And I was like, yes, I am very sure.
我当时想，是的，我非常确定。
I plan on getting an abortion still.
我还是打算堕胎。
I got my pills from Aid Access.
我从 Aid Access 那里拿到了药片。
I bought those.
我买了那些。
I'm just waiting for those to get to my house.
我只是在等他们来我家。
She immediately just had this change of demeanor to being completely defensive.
她的态度立刻转变为完全防御。
And that--
还有那个——
Her first thing was, oh, well, you should be careful because you never know what kind of grade pill you're going to get.
她的第一件事是，哦，好吧，你应该小心，因为你永远不知道你会得到什么样的等级药丸。
To be clear, there's no such thing as different grade abortion pills.
需要明确的是，不存在不同等级的堕胎药。
And Aid Access has been around for years and is a widely-trusted source.
Aid Access 已经存在多年，是一个广受信任的来源。
The crisis pregnancy center told Kae how far along she was, six weeks and three days.
危机怀孕中心告诉凯，她已经怀孕了多久，六周零三天。
That meant a couple of things.
这意味着几件事。
First, Kae could have tried to get an abortion in a clinic in Ohio right after her last appointment, had she known.
首先，如果凯知道的话，她可能会在上次预约后立即尝试在俄亥俄州的一家诊所堕胎。
It also meant that the week before, a trained sonographer should have been able to give her some sense of how far along she was.
这也意味着在一周前，训练有素的超声检查师应该能够让她了解自己的进展情况。
With Kae's permission, I reached out to the Women's Center.
在凯的许可下，我联系了妇女中心。
It's called Bella Women's Center.
它叫贝拉妇女中心。
They wouldn't give me an interview, but they said in a statement that they don't talk about individual patients because of confidentiality.
他们不会接受我的采访，但他们在一份声明中表示，出于保密考虑，他们不会谈论个别患者。
They did say they are aware of the timeline pressure that comes with a six-week abortion ban.
他们确实表示，他们意识到六周堕胎禁令带来的时间压力。
And they added that they are committed to, quote, "full disclosure of the patient's options."
他们补充说，他们致力于“充分披露患者的选择”。
But as far as Kae was concerned, her options were dwindling.
但对凯来说，她的选择越来越少。
Kae wanted to take the abortion pills by the time she was 10 weeks pregnant because that's what the FDA advises.
Kae 希望在怀孕 10 周时服用堕胎药，因为这是 FDA 的建议。
She was probably right around six weeks, and the pills could take up to a month to be delivered.
她的出生时间大概是六周左右，而药物可能需要一个月的时间才能送达。
She was running out of time.
她的时间不多了。
Meanwhile, in Georgia, while Taylor waited, she fixated on one particular question.
与此同时，在佐治亚州，泰勒在等待的同时，专注于一个特定的问题。
She couldn't find a satisfying answer, no matter how many people she talked to or how much research she did online.
无论她与多少人交谈或在网上做了多少研究，她都找不到令人满意的答案。
Would the abortion hurt the baby?
堕胎会对宝宝有伤害吗？
And the only people who have ever said abortions actually physically hurt babies are people who are pro-life.
唯一说过堕胎实际上对婴儿身体造成伤害的人是反堕胎人士。
She found an anti-abortion forum online and wrote a public message.
她在网上找到了一个反堕胎论坛，并写了一条公开信息。
OK.
好的。
Hi.
你好。
OK, let me not.
好吧，让我不要。
Hi, I'm pro-choice, weirdly having second thoughts about my appointment next week.
嗨，我支持堕胎，奇怪的是我对下周的约会重新有了想法。
Advice, question mark, question mark.
建议，问号，问号。
She writes that she is now 11 weeks pregnant.
她写道，她现在已怀孕 11 周。
I've just gotten used to being pregnant, and I have to fly to another state to get an abortion.
我刚刚习惯了怀孕，我必须飞往另一个州去堕胎。
And then what happened?
然后发生了什么？
Taylor A lot of people commented on that post, just like, flooding.
泰勒 那篇文章有很多人评论，就像潮水一样。
A lot of them were telling me I could give my baby away for adoption.
他们中的很多人告诉我，我可以把我的孩子送给别人收养。
Any option is better to them than to "murder," quote, unquote, your baby.
对他们来说，任何选择都比“谋杀”、引用、取消引用你的孩子更好。
Anti-abortion advocates online use all sorts of different strategies to sway people away from abortion, to do everything they can to ensure that pregnancies are carried to term.
网上的反堕胎倡导者使用各种不同的策略来劝说人们远离堕胎，并尽一切努力确保怀孕足月。
I actually had this lady ask me if I would do an open adoption.
事实上，这位女士问我是否愿意公开收养。
Right.
正确的。
Caroline Kitchener How did you feel about that?
卡罗琳·基奇纳 你对此有何感想？
There's no way I would do that.
我绝对不会这么做。
I think it was probably a little over 200 comments.
我想大概有 200 多条评论。
People were offering me money.
人们给我钱。
People were just super involved in making sure I didn't go to my appointment.
人们非常积极地确保我没有去赴约。
There's always a tone of coercion, in my opinion.
在我看来，总是有一种胁迫的语气。
But it was nice to read them because you just want to hear other people's opinions.
但阅读它们还是很不错的，因为你只是想听听其他人的意见。
So just hearing that, it was nice to hear the other side of it versus just, like, the answer is the abortion.
因此，很高兴听到它的另一面，就像答案是堕胎。
But I had no one else that was actually excited for me.
但没有其他人真正为我感到兴奋。
Because I will say that in the moment, I really needed somebody to connect with me about how I was feeling.
因为我想说，此刻我真的需要有人与我联系，了解我的感受。
When I first started talking to Kae and Taylor, it looked to me like they could be swayed by people who desperately wanted to sway them.
当我第一次开始与凯和泰勒交谈时，在我看来，他们可能会被那些拼命想要影响他们的人所左右。
Kae was trying out different decisions, auditioning them for her boyfriend.
凯正在尝试不同的决定，为她的男朋友试镜。
And Taylor was seeking out guidance from people she didn't even know.
泰勒正在向她甚至不认识的人寻求指导。
But then I started thinking, they actually were actively deciding what voices they wanted to let in, who exactly they wanted to be influenced by.
但后来我开始思考，他们实际上是在积极决定他们想让哪些声音进来，他们到底想受到谁的影响。
In the middle of one of the most polarized debates in America, Kae and Taylor were trying to suss out what was right for them.
在美国最两极分化的辩论之一中，凯和泰勒试图找出适合他们的方案。
So I would read those comments all day.
所以我会整天阅读这些评论。
I would read those comments at night.
我会在晚上阅读这些评论。
I would read them at work.
我会在工作时阅读它们。
I would read them when I left work.
当我下班时我会读它们。
And some of them didn't mean anything, but most of them actually meant a lot to me.
其中有些没有任何意义，但大多数对我来说实际上意义重大。
But just being able to speak to someone freely and not feel like they're pushing you to a certain place-- I mean, they were pushing me, but they were also giving me what I asked for, which is a valid reason to not have an abortion.
但只要能够自由地与某人交谈，而不是觉得他们在把你推到某个地方——我的意思是，他们在推我，但他们也给了我我所要求的，这是不堕胎的正当理由。
Ultimately, Taylor did go to Florida.
最终，泰勒确实去了佛罗里达。
She got on a plane to another state for an abortion.
她登上飞往另一个州堕胎的飞机。
Her boyfriend picked her up from the airport at 11:00 PM.
晚上 11:00，她的男朋友从机场接她。
And the next morning, it was probably 6:00 AM, but my appointment was at 8:00.
第二天早上，可能是早上 6:00，但我的预约是在 8:00。
And he was just sleeping away, no problem, no whatever.
他只是在睡觉，没问题，没什么。
But I was up.
但我已经起来了。
So I woke him up a little bit, and we talked.
所以我把他叫醒了一点，我们就聊了聊。
And they kept talking, about their parents, how they were raised, what they would want to do the same if they became parents, and what they would want to do differently.
他们不断谈论他们的父母，他们是如何长大的，如果他们成为父母他们想做同样的事情，以及他们想做不同的事情。
Her boyfriend said he worried his kid would struggle in school the same way he had.
她的男朋友说，他担心他的孩子会像他一样在学校遇到困难。
They wondered how much of that was genetic.
他们想知道其中有多少是遗传因素。
They kept talking and talking.
他们一直说啊说啊。
Yeah.
是的。
I kept looking at the clock because it's like, all right, it's 6:30.
我一直看着时钟，因为现在是 6:30。
Unless we throw our clothes on right now, we're going to be right on time.
除非我们现在就穿上衣服，否则我们就会准时到达。
All right, it's 7:00.
好的，现在是 7:00。
So when it started to get 7:10, 7:15, 7:30, it just kind of worked out in that way, where we just blew through the time and just ignored it.
因此，当时间开始达到 7:10、7:15、7:30 时，事情就以这种方式进行，我们就这样度过了时间，然后忽略了它。
Taylor never went to the appointment.
泰勒从未赴约。
Kae's pills arrived when she was eight weeks along.
凯怀孕八周时，她的药片就到了。
When Kae took them, she was in pain, more than she'd been expecting, which was scary because with all the new laws, Kate didn't feel safe calling a doctor.
当凯服用它们时，她感到疼痛，比她预想的还要严重，这很可怕，因为有了所有新法律，凯特觉得打电话给医生并不安全。
She didn't want to get in trouble.
她不想惹上麻烦。
I was in a lot of pain.
我很痛苦。
I was cramping.
我抽筋了。
I was bleeding.
我在流血。
I went into this little bathroom.
我走进这个小浴室。
And I remember being so hot.
我记得当时很热。
Because I had the light on in the bathroom, the door was closed, so this heat was just building up from the light.
因为我浴室里的灯是开着的，门是关着的，所以热量只是从灯里积聚起来的。
And the only thing that I could think of to help the pain was a warm shower, even though like I was so hot.
我唯一能想到的缓解疼痛的方法就是洗个热水澡，尽管我感觉很热。
And I turned the shower on, and I contemplated getting in for a few minutes.
我打开淋浴，考虑了几分钟进去。
Because I was like, oh my god, what if it doesn't help and I'm just roasting myself alive?
因为我当时想，天哪，如果这没有帮助，我只是把自己活活烤了怎么办？
And I ended up just getting in, and it was immense relief.
我最终就进去了，这让我松了一口气。
Caroline Kitchener, as we were putting this story together, the legal landscape changed a few times in many states, including Ohio, where Kae lives.
卡罗琳·基奇纳（Caroline Kitchener），当我们整理这个故事时，许多州的法律格局发生了几次变化，包括凯居住的俄亥俄州。
Ohio's abortion ban was challenged in court.
俄亥俄州的堕胎禁令在法庭上受到质疑。
And right now, there's a temporary injunction, which means that abortion is still legal there for up to 22 weeks.
现在，有一项临时禁令，这意味着堕胎在长达 22 周的时间内仍然是合法的。
But abortion pills, like the ones that Kae took, may soon be harder to come by thanks to a decision just this week by a federal judge in Texas.
但由于德克萨斯州联邦法官本周做出的决定，像凯服用的那种堕胎药可能很快就会变得更难获得。
That decision, if it stands, can make abortion pills harder to get in other states too.
如果这一决定成立，其他州也将更难获得堕胎药。
Coming up, what happens next with Taylor and how a video arcade can make almost anything feel better.
接下来，泰勒接下来会发生什么，以及视频街机如何让几乎所有事情感觉更好。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, Nine Months Later, it's been nine months since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v.
今天的节目《九个月后》，距离最高法院推翻罗伊诉美国案已经过去九个月了。
Wade.
韦德。
Our program today is about people who discovered that they were pregnant and did not want to be.
我们今天的节目是关于那些发现自己怀孕但不想怀孕的人。
Right when that ruling came down and made abortions largely illegal in their states, we're following what's happened to those people in the first trimester, and now, in this next part of our show, in the second trimester.
就在该裁决被推翻并使堕胎在他们的州基本上成为非法时，我们正在关注这些人在妊娠前三个月发生的事情，现在，在我们节目的下一部分，即妊娠中期。
Back before Roe fell, the vast number of abortions did happen in the first trimester.
早在罗伊倒台之前，大量堕胎确实发生在妊娠前三个月。
But now, because it can take so long to figure out what to do or for abortion pills to come in the mail, doctors say they're seeing an increasing number of people seeking abortions in the second trimester.
但现在，由于需要很长时间才能弄清楚该怎么做或邮寄堕胎药，医生表示，他们发现越来越多的人在妊娠中期寻求堕胎。
There's a hotline, the Miscarriage and Abortion Hotline, which was started to help patients who are taking abortion pills at home.
有一条热线，流产和堕胎热线，是为了帮助在家服用堕胎药的患者而设立的。
And it's been getting a lot more calls from people who are taking pills later in their pregnancy than the 10 weeks the FDA has approved.
与 FDA 批准的 10 周相比，在怀孕后期服用药物的人接到的电话要多得多。
Now, to be clear, the pills are still safe after 10 weeks, but there can be complications.
现在需要明确的是，这些药物在 10 周后仍然是安全的，但可能会出现并发症。
And the whole experience can be more intense.
整个体验会更加强烈。
People call a lot to just say, does this sound like it's going OK?
很多人打电话只是问，听起来一切顺利吗？
Because I'm so afraid that if I need to get medical care, I'll get arrested.
因为我很害怕如果我需要医疗护理，我会被逮捕。
Dr. Linda Prine, who helped start the hotline, talked with us and with a medical storytelling podcast called The Nocturnists about what she's been seeing.
帮助开通热线的琳达·普林医生（Dr. Linda Prine）与我们以及一个名为《夜行动者》（The Nocturnists）的医学故事播客谈论了她所看到的情况。
She says she used to answer questions from people in first trimester abortions about how much bleeding is normal, how do they know if the pills worked.
她说，她曾经回答过妊娠早期堕胎者的问题，比如出血量是正常的，他们如何知道药物是否有效。
But now she says at least once a day, she'll get a call that's very different.
但现在她说至少每天一次，她会接到一个非常不同的电话。
It's taken them so long to get their pills that by the time they use them, they're 14 weeks, 16 weeks, 20 weeks.
他们花了很长时间才拿到药，以至于当他们服用药物时，已经是 14 周、16 周、20 周了。
And we get calls about-- the fetus just came out, and I don't know what to do about the tissue that's stuck.
我们接到电话说——胎儿刚刚出生，我不知道如何处理卡住的组织。
How do I do this?
我该怎么做？
There's the cord.
那里有绳子。
Or I think the placenta stuck in my cervix.
或者我认为胎盘卡在我的子宫颈里。
Or sometimes they don't have the vocabulary to explain what's happening.
或者有时他们没有词汇来解释正在发生的事情。
But they're just like, I can tell there's more tissue, and I don't know how to get it out.
但他们就像，我可以看出还有更多的组织，但我不知道如何将其取出。
And what should I do?
我该怎么办？
At that point, she has to walk them through a second-trimester abortion over the phone.
那时，她必须通过电话引导他们经历中期妊娠堕胎。
This is part of what the second trimester looks like now, more complicated, more frightening.
这是现在妊娠中期的一部分，更复杂，更可怕。
And the people we talked to felt very alone.
与我们交谈的人都感到非常孤独。
We spoke with nearly a dozen people who were looking for abortions in the weeks after Roe fell.
在罗伊摔倒后的几周内，我们采访了近十几名寻求堕胎的人。
And so many of them could not decide who to trust, who to ask for help.
他们中的许多人无法决定该信任谁，该向谁寻求帮助。
And there's one other thing that people talked about when they talked about what they were afraid of.
当人们谈论他们害怕的事情时，他们谈论的还有另一件事。
Katie had to travel out of state for her abortion.
凯蒂不得不出国去堕胎。
The only appointment she could get was the same weekend as her college orientation.
她唯一能得到的预约是在大学迎新活动的同一个周末。
And there was no way of rescheduling it because I wouldn't know how to tell my mom of why I wanted to reschedule it.
而且没有办法重新安排它，因为我不知道如何告诉我妈妈我为什么要重新安排它。
Moms, there's no figure we heard about more than moms.
妈妈们，我们听到的最多的人物莫过于妈妈了。
People did not want to have to talk to their moms about their abortions.
人们不想与母亲谈论堕胎的事情。
It was hard.
这很难。
Their mom called all the time or asked how they were.
他们的妈妈一直打电话或询问他们怎么样。
But they needed their mom to drive them across state lines, like Brianna, who says she heard over 12 hours in the car of--
但他们需要妈妈开车送他们穿越州界，就像布丽安娜（Brianna）一样，她说她在车里度过了超过 12 个小时——
It was like, I don't think you should do this, but it's your life.
就像，我认为你不应该这样做，但这是你的生活。
And so I was like, you're not helping.
所以我就想，你没有帮助。
I wish I didn't have to say anything to my mom at all, but I needed the childcare.
我希望我根本不必对妈妈说任何话，但我需要照顾孩子。
We needed the help for the weekend.
我们周末需要帮助。
Ashley had to figure out what to say about why she needed to leave town.
阿什利必须弄清楚如何解释她为什么需要离开小镇。
We just lied.
我们只是撒了谎。
She was extremely helpful that weekend as far as-- I think she took the kids one day so that my husband had to work Saturday.
那个周末她非常乐于助人——我想她有一天带着孩子，所以我丈夫周六不得不工作。
But I had to yeah, lie.
但我不得不撒谎。
I could not tell my mom.
我无法告诉我妈妈。
Ira Glass This is Jessica in Texas.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我是德克萨斯州的杰西卡。
Telling her that I was pregnant and was not sure if I was going to keep it would have probably devastated her.
告诉她我怀孕了并且不确定是否要保留它可能会摧毁她。
There was one post Roe second-trimester pregnancy that especially drew Caroline in, Caroline Kitchener, the reporter from the Washington Post that we're doing today's show with.
罗伊怀孕中期的一次怀孕特别吸引了卡罗琳，她就是我们今天节目中的《华盛顿邮报》记者卡罗琳·基奇纳。
This particular pregnancy was in Oklahoma, a teenage girl named Lilly, who couldn't get an abortion without pulling in her parents-- in this case, her dad.
这次特殊的怀孕发生在俄克拉荷马州，一个名叫莉莉的十几岁女孩，如果没有她的父母（在这个例子中是她的父亲）的拉动，她就无法堕胎。
Again, here's Caroline.
再说一遍，这是卡罗琳。
I met Lilly a few days after she got her positive pregnancy test.
莉莉怀孕测试呈阳性几天后，我见到了她。
She was 17 years old and well into her second trimester.
她当时 17 岁，正处于妊娠中期。
I liked Lilly right away.
我立刻就喜欢上了莉莉。
She was silly, made me feel old, but in a super endearing kind of way.
她很傻，让我觉得自己老了，但又非常可爱。
Lilly told me she'd known this boy for a while and they had an on-again, off-again thing since sophomore year.
莉莉告诉我，她认识这个男孩有一段时间了，从大二开始他们就时断时续。
I don't know how to explain it.
我不知道该如何解释。
He's very funny, and he's very sweet and very caring.
他很有趣，很可爱，也很体贴。
He's a little stupid, but that's OK.
他有点傻，不过没关系。
And yeah, we had just started hanging out again, I think.
是的，我想我们又开始出去玩了。
Because we had been going to lunch and stuff because at my school, we had gotten 15-minute lunches.
因为我们一直要去吃午餐之类的，因为在我的学校，我们有 15 分钟的午餐时间。
And then he was like, hey, what you doing?
然后他就说，嘿，你在做什么？
And I was like, oh, dear god .
我当时想，哦，亲爱的上帝。
And then it all kind of just restarted.
然后一切又重新开始了。
Lilly had no idea she was pregnant through the entire first trimester.
莉莉在整个怀孕的前三个月都不知道自己怀孕了。
She had just graduated from high school, still riding high off prom.
她刚刚高中毕业，舞会结束时还很兴奋。
She was making her own money working at a sandwich shop, staying out late with friends.
她在一家三明治店打工，和朋友一起待到很晚，自己赚钱。
Somewhere down the line, she thought she might go to culinary school.
不久之后，她认为自己可能会去烹饪学校。
Or she had an idea for a business that combined her two favorite things, tattoos and food.
或者她有一个创业想法，将她最喜欢的两种东西——纹身和食物结合起来。
She would call it Pies and Pokes.
她称之为“馅饼和戳”。
Lilly's the youngest of five.
莉莉是五个孩子中最小的一个。
The older siblings have all moved out already, so it's just her and her dad in the house together.
哥哥姐姐们都搬走了，家里只剩下她和她爸爸了。
You know what you picture when you picture a single, divorced dad?
你知道当你想象一个单身、离婚的父亲时你会想到什么吗？
[LAUGHS] Like, he doesn't know how to decorate.
[笑]就像，他不知道如何装饰。
We shop nightly for meals.
我们每晚都去买菜。
He won't go shopping for a lot of things to keep the fridge or the pantry stocked.
他不会去买很多东西来保持冰箱或食品储藏室的库存。
We'll just go as we need, or we'll go buy food at fast-food places or go to restaurants.
我们会根据需要去，或者去快餐店买食物或去餐馆。
And I just think it's hilarious.
我只是觉得这很搞笑。
Here's how Lilly found out she was pregnant.
这是莉莉如何发现自己怀孕的。
She was at work, and she called her dad with really bad stomach cramps.
她当时正在工作，她打电话给她爸爸，因为胃痉挛得很厉害。
They ended up in the ER, where they took Lily's vitals and took some urine.
他们最终进入了急诊室，采集了莉莉的生命体征并采集了一些尿液。
And the doctor came in the room with this weird look on his face.
医生走进房间，脸上带着奇怪的表情。
He asked Lilly if she was OK talking with her dad in the room.
他问莉莉是否可以在房间里和她爸爸说话。
Lilly was like, yeah, of course, talk about what?
莉莉说，是啊，当然，聊什么？
He told her, you're pregnant.
他告诉她，你怀孕了。
And I looked at my dad.
我看着我的父亲。
And I remember him getting all shocked and looking at me.
我记得他很震惊并看着我。
It was-- good lord.
这是——天哪。
He looked like he was definitely panicking but trying not to show me because he knew I was panicking.
他看起来确实很恐慌，但尽量不让我表现出来，因为他知道我很恐慌。
Because I was visibly panicking.
因为我明显感到惊慌。
How were you-- what do you think you were doing--
你怎么样——你认为你在做什么——
Oh, I was crying.
哦，我哭了。
I was crying immediately.
我立刻就哭了。
I literally, instantly started just sobbing.
我真的立刻开始抽泣。
It turned out she was about 19 weeks along.
结果她已经怀孕大约 19 周了。
The doctor handed her the test results and told her that she could put them in her baby book.
医生把检查结果递给她，并告诉她可以把这些结果记入她的婴儿手册中。
He kept talking, but Lilly was just staring at her dad, studying his face.
他一直在说话，但莉莉只是盯着她爸爸，研究他的脸。
I just remember being scared.
我只记得我很害怕。
I felt shaky.
我感到摇摇欲坠。
And I kind of wanted to know if he was mad at me or really just what he was thinking about, honestly.
老实说，我有点想知道他是否生我的气，或者只是他在想什么。
He said nothing.
他什么也没说。
But at one point, he did reach out to hold her hand.
但有一次，他确实伸手握住了她的手。
They left the room, walked to the car in silence.
两人离开房间，沉默地走向车子。
As they were driving home, Lilly said he asked her right off the bat--
当他们开车回家时，莉莉说他立即问她——
Do you know whose it is?
你知道是谁的吗？
And I was, like, yeah.
我当时想，是的。
And he was like, well, whose is it?
他说，好吧，这是谁的？
And I was like, um-- because I didn't want to tell him because he knows the guy.
我当时想，嗯——因为我不想告诉他，因为他认识这个人。
And I was like, oh god.
我当时想，天啊。
And did you?
你呢？
Lilly Yeah.
莉莉 是的。
Then he was like, oh my god.
然后他就说，天哪。
I should have your brothers kill him, da, da, da, da, da.
我应该让你的兄弟杀了他，哒，哒，哒，哒，哒。
She rolled her eyes, and then the conversation was very much over.
她翻了个白眼，然后谈话就结束了。
They drove home.
他们开车回家。
She went to her bedroom.
她去了自己的卧室。
He went to his.
他去了他的。
The next day, Lilly sat in her room while her dad went to work.
第二天，莉莉坐在自己的房间里，而她爸爸去上班了。
And it really started to hit her.
这确实开始打击她。
She was pregnant, and abortion was now illegal in Oklahoma.
她怀孕了，现在堕胎在俄克拉荷马州是非法的。
There was no doubt in Lilly's mind, she wanted an abortion.
莉莉心里毫无疑问，她想要堕胎。
Had she found out earlier in her pregnancy, before Oklahoma banned abortion, Lilly could have driven 30 minutes to a clinic to get one.
如果莉莉在怀孕初期（俄克拉荷马州禁止堕胎之前）发现这一情况，她本可以开车 30 分钟去诊所堕胎。
But now she had to find a different way.
但现在她必须另辟蹊径了。
First, she tried clinics in Kansas, but the clinic she called told her that she was too far along for them to see her.
首先，她尝试了堪萨斯州的诊所，但她拨打的诊所告诉她，她距离太远，他们无法见到她。
Then she tried New Mexico.
然后她尝试了新墨西哥州。
They didn't have appointments for three to four weeks.
他们已经有三到四个星期没有预约了。
I talked to Lilly a whole bunch right around this time.
就在这个时候，我和莉莉聊了很多。
She was terrified.
她很害怕。
One clinic told her she was so far along, they would have to induce labor to end the pregnancy.
一家诊所告诉她，她已经怀孕了，他们必须引产才能结束妊娠。
Lilly told me she couldn't imagine pushing a baby out of her 95-pound body.
莉莉告诉我，她无法想象将一个婴儿从她 95 磅重的身体中推出。
Do you think you sounded scared on those calls?
你认为你在这些电话中听起来很害怕吗？
Probably, yeah.
可能是的。
I was very nervous, and it was not fun to say on the phone repeatedly.
我很紧张，在电话里反复说不好玩。
She kept calling and calling.
她不停地打电话。
Eventually, she found one clinic in New Mexico with an appointment the following week.
最终，她在新墨西哥州找到了一家诊所，并在下周预约。
She knew she wouldn't be able to get there on her own.
她知道她无法独自到达那里。
She knew she was going to need her dad.
她知道她需要她的父亲。
Lilly's dad is former Air Force.
莉莉的父亲是前空军军人。
Now he works in IT.
现在他从事 IT 工作。
He loves music Lilly likes to describe as dad rock-- AC/DC, Bon Jovi.
他热爱 Lilly 称之为摇滚老爹的音乐——AC/DC、Bon Jovi。
He has five kids, three boys and two girls.
他有五个孩子，三个男孩和两个女孩。
He grew up in a conservative family, believing it was wrong to have an abortion.
他在一个保守的家庭长大，认为堕胎是错误的。
Lilly didn't know what he would think about her wanting an abortion.
莉莉不知道他会怎么想她想要堕胎。
I was just nervous to tell him, honestly.
老实说，我只是很紧张告诉他。
I was nervous to see his reaction.
看到他的反应我很紧张。
What were you worried about?
你担心什么？
Lilly I just didn't want him to be disappointed, I guess.
莉莉 我想我只是不想让他失望。
A few days later, her dad finally asked her, so what are you going to do?
几天后，她爸爸终于问她，那你打算怎么办？
She told him, I'm not going to have a kid.
她告诉他，我不会要孩子。
He said, you know how hard that's going to be now, right?
他说，你知道现在有多难，对吧？
Lilly knew.
莉莉知道。
Then her dad walked out.
然后她爸爸走了出去。
He said he needed a little time to process that information.
他说他需要一点时间来处理这些信息。
Lilly decided, in her head, that what her dad was not saying was that he wanted her to keep the baby.
莉莉在心里认定，她父亲没有说的是他希望她留下这个孩子。
It was kind of hard.
这有点难。
Because I can handle my dad being mad at me.
因为我可以忍受爸爸对我发脾气。
Him being disappointed in me is a whole different story.
他对我感到失望是一个完全不同的故事。
Was he actually disappointed?
他真的失望了吗？
Did he actually not want her to get the abortion?
他真的不想让她堕胎吗？
What was he thinking when the doctor told them she was pregnant?
当医生告诉他们她怀孕时，他在想什么？
When they drove home that night, Lilly hadn't asked him.
那天晚上他们开车回家时，莉莉没有问他。
So I did.
所以我做到了。
The first thing was, who is this kid?
第一个问题就是，这个孩子是谁？
Because there's a butt kicking coming.
因为有一个屁股踢来了。
You mean, who is this person who impregnated her?
你是说，这个让她怀孕的人是谁？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
And when she told me, it kind of infuriated me a little bit more.
当她告诉我时，我更加愤怒了。
Why?
为什么？
Justin Well, because-- so the guy, he'd already gotten another 15, 16-year-old girl pregnant and had a baby with her.
贾斯汀：嗯，因为——所以这个家伙，他已经让另一个 15、16 岁的女孩怀孕了，并和她生了一个孩子。
So yeah.
所以是的。
The next thing in my mind is I'm calling the three brothers, and this is getting handled.
我脑海中的下一件事是我给三兄弟打电话，这件事正在得到处理。
That was the immediate, you've ruined your life.
那是直接的，你毁了你的生活。
You're 17 years old.
你今年17岁了。
You're going to have a baby now.
你现在就要生孩子了。
A, how are you going to take care of this baby?
A、你打算怎么照顾这个孩子？
You don't even have a job.
你甚至没有工作。
No, I think she was working at that point.
不，我认为她当时正在工作。
You're working at Jersey Mike's, making minimum wage.
你在泽西迈克的工作，拿着最低工资。
I have just gotten out of finally paying off your medical bills for your broken leg, which was also the result of a horrible decision on your part.
我刚刚还清了你断腿的医疗费用，这也是你做出的一个可怕决定的结果。
What were you thinking?
你在想什么？
When Lilly told her dad, Justin, that she wanted an abortion, she imagined he was angry or upset.
当莉莉告诉她的父亲贾斯汀她想要堕胎时，她想象他很生气或不安。
But he told me he wasn't.
但他告诉我他不是。
He was really just surprised.
他真的只是感到惊讶。
I didn't think, knowing Grace, that it was going to be an option for her.
据我了解，我不认为这会成为她的选择。
Grace is his nickname for Lilly.
格蕾丝（Grace）是他给莉莉（Lilly）的昵称。
He's always called her that.
他一直这么叫她。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
That was my first instinct, was she's going to have his baby.
这是我的第一直觉，她要生他的孩子了。
I don't know why--
我不知道为什么——
Because when she talks about it, it's like there was no room for that.
因为当她谈论这件事时，就好像没有余地一样。
So it's interesting that, knowing her as well as you do, that's where your mind went.
所以有趣的是，你和你一样了解她，这就是你的想法。
This may sound terrible, but it probably was a result of how nurturing she is.
这听起来可能很糟糕，但这可能是她精心培养的结果。
She doesn't even like to step on spiders, you know what I'm saying?
她甚至不喜欢踩蜘蛛，你知道我在说什么吗？
So I just never thought that that would be an option for her.
所以我从来没有想过这会是她的一个选择。
But Justin quickly moved past shock and into action mode.
但贾斯汀很快就摆脱了震惊，进入了行动模式。
He assumed that this was something that he needed to make happen for his daughter.
他认为这是他需要为他的女儿实现的事情。
The day Lilly told him she wanted an abortion, Justin went to work and researched.
莉莉告诉贾斯汀她想要堕胎的那天，贾斯汀去工作并进行研究。
He looked up clinics.
他查找了诊所。
He had no idea that Lilly, his baby-- now his anxious and somewhat irresponsible teenager-- she was way ahead of him.
他不知道莉莉，他的宝贝——现在是他焦虑且有点不负责任的青少年——她远远领先于他。
Didn't really hear from her much that day.
那天并没有真正听到她的消息。
And I get home, fully, she's laying on her bed.
我完全回到家，她躺在床上。
She's got her little notebook out.
她拿出她的小笔记本。
And she's got some kind of gangster rap going on the freaking-- on the Alexa.
她在 Alexa 上播放了某种黑帮说唱。
And she's called 14 different places.
她被称为 14 个不同的地方。
She's called the Roe v.
她被称为罗伊诉。
Wade fund.
韦德基金。
She's called everything, and she's basically got a plan in place.
她已经打电话给一切了，她基本上已经制定了计划。
And I'm like, oh, wow.
我想，哦，哇。
So you thought you were going to be the one making the phone calls.
所以你以为你会成为打电话的人。
I did.
我做到了。
I absolutely did.
我绝对做到了。
It amazed me because that is not a trait she had displayed before.
这让我感到惊讶，因为这不是她以前表现出的特质。
And her calmness during it, that's what really stood out.
而她在这期间的冷静，才是真正引人注目的地方。
She didn't panic.
她并不惊慌。
She wasn't like, oh, Dad, help me.
她不像，哦，爸爸，帮帮我。
She was like, OK, well, I got to call this guy.
她说，好吧，好吧，我得给这个人打电话。
I got to call this guy.
我得给这个人打电话。
What did you want her to do?
你想让她做什么？
What decision did you want her to make?
你希望她做出什么决定？
That's a great question.
这是一个很好的问题。
Hm.
嗯。
I think if you had to say what was your top choice, I would have said, yeah, I wanted her to keep the baby.
我想如果你不得不说你的最佳选择是什么，我会说，是的，我希望她保留这个孩子。
Why do you think your top choice was for her to keep it?
为什么你认为你的首要选择是让她保留它？
That probably is very psychologically deep.
这可能是非常深刻的心理。
And it probably has to do with Grace getting to the point where she's going to leave and feeling all my children are out.
这可能与格蕾丝即将离开并感觉我所有的孩子都出去了有关。
Kinsie has her own kid.
金西有自己的孩子。
Michael is out there in the world, doing his thing.
迈克尔在外面的世界里，做着他自己的事情。
Christopher and Brady are out in the world.
克里斯托弗和布雷迪来到了外面的世界。
So Grace is all I have left that I know needs me.
所以我所知道的唯一需要我的就是恩典。
Her daily survival, to some degree, depends on me.
她每天的生存，在某种程度上，取决于我。
And I've gone almost longer in my life with that than without that.
有了它，我的人生几乎比没有它的时间更长了。
So I don't know how to be the me before the kids.
所以我不知道如何在孩子们面前做我自己。
For the last 27 years, I always had somebody that needed me.
在过去的 27 年里，总有人需要我。
So I know if Grace has this baby, I got another at least 18 to 20 years of being needed.
所以我知道如果格蕾丝有了这个孩子，我还需要至少 18 到 20 年的时间。
And that may be purely selfish, but I hope that my concern for her outweighed my selfishness in that situation.
这可能纯粹是自私的，但我希望在那种情况下我对她的关心胜过我的自私。
Justin wasn't sure he could trust his own impulses or his own feelings.
贾斯汀不确定他是否可以相信自己的冲动或自己的感觉。
That's why he didn't talk to Lilly.
这就是为什么他没有和莉莉说话。
To her, it seemed like disapproval.
对她来说，这似乎是不赞成。
But Justin was really just trying to give her space, not share too much of his own complicated thoughts.
但贾斯汀实际上只是想给她空间，而不是分享太多他自己复杂的想法。
He knew Lilly would have a hard time ignoring anything he said.
他知道莉莉很难忽视他所说的一切。
When Lilly asked him to drive her to New Mexico for the abortion, Justin said yes.
当莉莉让他开车送她去新墨西哥州堕胎时，贾斯汀答应了。
She'd gotten the funds.
她已经拿到资金了。
She'd made the appointment.
她已经预约了。
She had a plan.
她有一个计划。
Lilly was 20 weeks pregnant when she and her dad loaded up the car to drive to New Mexico together.
当莉莉怀孕 20 周时，她和她的父亲把车装上车，一起开车去新墨西哥州。
They stocked up on her favorite road trip snacks, Pringles and pudding cups.
他们储备了她最喜欢的公路旅行零食、品客薯片和布丁杯。
It was their first road trip together, just the two of them.
这是他们第一次一起公路旅行，只有他们两个人。
And Justin told me, with everything Lilly had been through, he wanted to make sure they did something fun along the way, which was funny because Lilly told me this about heading out on that trip with her dad.
贾斯汀告诉我，莉莉经历了一切，他想确保他们一路上做一些有趣的事情，这很有趣，因为莉莉告诉我关于和她爸爸一起去旅行的事情。
I wanted him to have at least some sort of fun while he was out here.
我希望他在外面的时候至少能得到一些乐趣。
I thought it was really sweet that he was trying to make me feel better.
我觉得他试图让我感觉好一点真的很甜蜜。
And obviously, it's not fun for me, but I know it's not fun to have to see your kid-- I wanted him to have some good memory.
显然，这对我来说并不有趣，但我知道见到你的孩子并不有趣——我希望他有一些好的记忆力。
When it was time for the procedure, it took two days.
到了办理手续的时候，花了两天时间。
Because she was so far along, the doctor had to insert dilation sticks to soften and open her cervix.
由于她已经发育太久，医生不得不插入扩张棒来软化并打开她的子宫颈。
Then Lilly and her dad went to the hotel.
然后莉莉和她爸爸去了旅馆。
Then they went back to the clinic in the morning, and the doctor used suction to empty the uterus for about 20 minutes until the fetus was entirely out.
然后早上他们又回到诊所，医生用吸引器将子宫排空，大约20分钟，直到胎儿完全出来。
Lilly said the nurse woke her up and told her, you're done.
莉莉说护士叫醒了她并告诉她，你已经完成了。
You are no longer pregnant.
你不再怀孕了。
She immediately noticed that her stomach didn't feel full anymore.
她立刻发现自己的胃不再感到饱了。
She said it felt flat again.
她说感觉又平淡了。
Afterward, Lilly told Justin she wanted to go to the arcade in the mall.
之后，莉莉告诉贾斯汀她想去商场的游乐场。
She wanted to try the DDR machine.
她想试试DDR机器。
But mostly, she wanted to go because she thought her dad would love it.
但最重要的是，她想去是因为她认为她爸爸会喜欢它。
But I was incredibly nauseous and in a bunch of pain but we still went because ball out.
但我感到非常恶心，而且很痛苦，但我们还是去了，因为球出局了。
So she was she was sick in the car in the parking lot when we pulled up in the mall, but she was determined that she wanted to go to the arcade.
所以当我们把车停在商场里时，她在停车场的车里生病了，但她决定去游乐场。
So I'm like, all right, well, we'll go.
所以我想，好吧，我们就走吧。
Was there any part of you that was like, really?
你身上有没有这样的部分，真的吗？
Like, why do you want to do this when you're like actively sick and throwing up?
就像，当你病得很严重并且呕吐时，你为什么要这样做？
I was kind of proud.
我有点自豪。
I'm like, all right, yeah, a little vomit ain't going to stop us from playing some games.
我想，好吧，是的，一点呕吐不会阻止我们玩一些游戏。
And after she threw up, she felt better.
呕吐后，她感觉好多了。
So we're walking around.
所以我们就到处走走。
And for a while, it was fun.
有一段时间，这很有趣。
And we're playing games.
我们正在玩游戏。
We're winning toys and such.
我们赢得了玩具之类的东西。
And I think we ordered a pretzel or something, maybe, from the little snack bar or whatever.
我想我们可能从小小吃店或其他什么地方点了一份椒盐卷饼之类的东西。
And we played a bunch of claw games, and my dad won me a little duck in a hoodie.
我们玩了很多爪子游戏，我爸爸为我赢得了一只穿着连帽衫的小鸭子。
It's really cute.
真的很可爱。
I still have it.
我还留着呢。
I named him Mr. Quacker.
我给他起名叫奎克先生。
But then Lilly started feeling sick again.
但随后莉莉又开始感到不舒服。
And so we're walking around, trying to find the bathroom.
于是我们四处走动，试图找到卫生间。
And she's like, I am not going to make it.
她说，我不会成功的。
And I'm like, well, then just go hide behind one of the arcade machines.
我想，好吧，那就躲在一台街机后面吧。
And she, sure enough, made it to the side of one of the arcade machines and then she just launched it.
果然，她走到了一台街机的旁边，然后她就启动了它。
And I'm like, yeah, we should probably go ahead and head home now.
我想，是的，我们现在应该回家了。
I was walking away to go find a worker to tell someone, hey, I just threw up on your ground.
我正走开去找工人告诉别人，嘿，我刚刚吐在你的地上了。
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
My dad, my grown-man dad, he goes, no, it's fine.
我的爸爸，我成年的爸爸，他说，不，没关系。
They deal with this all the time.
他们一直在处理这个问题。
Let's just leave.
我们离开吧。
And we just left.
我们就离开了。
She's like, do I need to tell somebody?
她说，我需要告诉别人吗？
And I'm like, I'm sure they're going to figure it out.
我想，我相信他们会解决这个问题。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Caroline Kitchener It was an eight-hour drive back to Oklahoma.
卡罗琳·基奇纳 回到俄克拉荷马州需要八个小时的车程。
They left at 5:00 AM the next morning.
他们于第二天早上 5:00 出发。
Justin drove.
贾斯汀开车。
Lilly slept in the passenger seat.
莉莉睡在乘客座位上。
By afternoon, they were home, back to regular life, back to their routines, still just the two of them.
下午，他们回到家，回到正常的生活，回到他们的日常生活，仍然只有他们两个人。
Third trimester.
第三个三个月。
Now that we're nine months out from the Supreme Court decision, this first group of people who wanted abortions, but they live in states with abortion bans, have had time to think about where they landed, how these laws affected them.
现在距离最高法院的判决还有九个月的时间，第一批想要堕胎但生活在禁止堕胎的州的人有时间思考他们的落脚点以及这些法律如何影响他们。
People had very different takeaways.
人们的收获截然不同。
One woman in Mississippi told us she thinks her abortion saved her life and the laws just stood in her way.
密西西比州的一位妇女告诉我们，她认为堕胎挽救了她的生命，而法律只是阻碍了她。
She had a medical condition that made her pregnancy life-threatening.
她的健康状况使她怀孕时危及生命。
A woman in Texas said the experience made her swear off men.
德克萨斯州的一名妇女表示，这次经历让她发誓远离男人。
Another woman in Texas said it made her swear off Texas.
德克萨斯州的另一名妇女表示，这让她发誓远离德克萨斯州。
The anti-abortion forces and laws in the state seem so menacing, she didn't even want to reveal that she was pregnant on the standard medical form that you fill out at the chiropractor's office.
该州的反堕胎力量和法律似乎非常具有威胁性，她甚至不想在脊椎按摩师办公室填写的标准医疗表格上透露自己怀孕了。
I didn't want to let anybody know I was pregnant.
我不想让任何人知道我怀孕了。
And I was afraid that I was going to be reported.
而且我担心我会被举报。
I don't know how they handle it.
我不知道他们如何处理。
People were afraid of period apps, for god's sakes, putting down that they were missing periods.
看在上帝的份上，人们害怕经期应用程序，认为它们缺少经期。
She left Texas for months.
她离开德克萨斯州几个月了。
But a college freshman named Katie told us that the biggest aftereffect of her abortion and the new laws was that it led to a lot of awkward conversations with family and friends because she didn't want to tell everybody about her abortion.
但一位名叫凯蒂的大学新生告诉我们，她堕胎和新法律的最大后果是，它导致了与家人和朋友的许多尴尬对话，因为她不想告诉所有人她堕胎的事情。
She wanted to be one of the millions of people who have had abortions and were able to put it away, move on, not think about it again.
她想成为数以百万计曾经堕过胎的人中的一员，并且能够把它抛在一边，继续前进，不再去想它。
This was not the year for that.
今年不适合这样做。
Abortion was constantly in the news.
堕胎不断成为新闻。
People were talking about it all the time.
人们一直在谈论它。
And Katie's roommate talked about how annoying the anti-abortion protesters were in the quad.
凯蒂的室友谈到了四方院里的反堕胎抗议者是多么烦人。
Katie wanted to agree but without disclosing too much about her own abortion.
凯蒂想同意，但又不想透露太多关于她自己堕胎的事情。
And I told her that I had a friend that had to go to Louisiana and Washington and all this stuff because of Roe v.
我告诉她，我有一个朋友因为罗伊诉案件而不得不去路易斯安那州和华盛顿州以及所有这些事情。
Wade got overturned.
韦德被翻盘了。
And if Texas didn't have all these laws, it would have been so much easier on her.
如果德克萨斯州没有所有这些法律，对她来说会容易得多。
But she had to wait so long just because of Roe v.
但仅仅因为罗伊诉案件，她就等了这么久。
Wade.
韦德。
For Ashley, the new laws dominated a lot of her last year.
对于阿什莉来说，去年新法律在她的生活中占据了很大的比重。
She was in the unusual situation that under the abortion ban, she left the state to get an abortion, and then, months later, she discovered she was pregnant again.
她的情况很不寻常，根据堕胎禁令，她离开该州去堕胎，然后几个月后，她发现自己再次怀孕了。
Everything about how she felt about this new pregnancy was shaped by that first post Roe abortion.
她对这次新怀孕的所有感受都是由罗伊流产后的第一次决定的。
She'd had her mom watch her three kids when she went out of state but lied to her about where she was going and what she was doing, and she'd turned to an abortion fund to help pay for it last time around.
当她离开州时，她让妈妈照顾她的三个孩子，但她对她要去的地方和所做的事情撒了谎，最后她向堕胎基金求助以帮助支付费用。
Now, pregnant again and thinking about a second abortion--
现在又怀孕了，正在考虑第二次流产——
I felt selfish.
我感到自私。
I felt like I was taking the fund resources away from the 17-year-old who needed it way more than me.
我觉得我正在从这个比我更需要的 17 岁年轻人手中夺走基金资源。
I just felt horribly selfish, and I didn't feel like it was a situation that I could put myself and my whole family through again.
我只是觉得非常自私，而且我不觉得我可以让自己和全家人再次经历这种情况。
I can't travel another 1,800 miles and lie to my family and my kids about where Mommy is when I have a spot in my van.
当我的货车里有空位时，我不能再行驶 1,800 英里，向家人和孩子谎报妈妈在哪里。
And we have a happy home.
我们还有一个幸福的家。
And we have space and love.
我们有空间和爱。
So basically, I didn't feel like I could do it again and still feel good about it.
所以基本上，我觉得我无法再做一次并且仍然感觉良好。
So she was keeping the pregnancy, even though her reasons for the first abortion still stood.
所以她继续怀孕，尽管她第一次堕胎的理由仍然存在。
She still had three kids on Medicaid.
她还有三个孩子享受医疗补助。
Her husband still didn't make enough money.
她的丈夫仍然没有赚到足够的钱。
And she still did not want to be pregnant.
而她仍然不想怀孕。
Then it made me start to realize how many mothers of multiple children have to just pile another kid in there when they really didn't want to.
然后这让我开始意识到，有多少多个孩子的母亲不得不在她们真的不想的时候把另一个孩子堆在那里。
Sometimes it's people that already have a minivan and have the space and have the love, which makes us feel even worse.
有时，人们已经拥有一辆小型货车，有空间，有爱，这让我们感觉更糟。
But just because we have the space and we have the love doesn't mean we wanted to do that.
但仅仅因为我们有空间、有爱并不意味着我们想这样做。
Which brings us to the most consequential result of the new laws.
这给我们带来了新法律最重要的结果。
The first group of post Roe babies, babies who never would have been born had the Supreme Court had not acted, are now coming into the world.
第一批后罗伊婴儿，如果最高法院没有采取行动，这些婴儿永远不会出生，现在已经来到了这个世界。
One of those babies is Taylor's.
其中一个婴儿是泰勒的。
You heard Taylor earlier, the Reddit nerd in Atlanta who flew to Florida for an abortion, but in the end, didn't go to her appointment.
你早些时候听说过泰勒，亚特兰大的 Reddit 书呆子，飞往佛罗里达州堕胎，但最终没有去赴约。
Caroline has been tracking what's happened since then, and that's where we'll end today's show.
从那时起，卡罗琳就一直在追踪发生的事情，今天的节目到此结束。
By the time Taylor entered her third trimester, she was very alone.
当泰勒进入妊娠晚期时，她非常孤独。
It happened week by week.
事情一周又一周地发生。
When she was 13 weeks pregnant, coming home to Atlanta, Taylor's mom and sister wanted to celebrate.
当她怀孕 13 周回到亚特兰大的家时，泰勒的妈妈和姐姐想要庆祝一下。
They asked, can we rub your belly?
他们问，我们可以揉揉你的肚子吗？
Can we throw you a baby shower?
我们可以为您举办迎婴派对吗？
No and no. Taylor was not interested.
不，不。泰勒不感兴趣。
I didn't want people to get me things I didn't want.
我不想让人们得到我不想要的东西。
I didn't want my family to feel responsible for something that I really didn't plan to do.
我不想让我的家人对我真正不打算做的事情负有责任。
If I was married or something, I'd have a baby shower.
如果我结婚了或者什么的，我就会举办迎婴派对。
But this is not the same type of situation.
但这不是同一类型的情况。
So I didn't want to ask anyone for anything.
所以我不想向任何人要求任何事情。
It was almost like she had decided this was her thing.
就好像她已经决定这是她的事了。
She got pregnant without planning to, so she was going to deal with it all by herself.
她无意中怀孕了，所以这一切都是她一个人来面对的。
Taylor's family was offended, which made Taylor want to pull away even more.
泰勒的家人被冒犯了，这让泰勒更加想抽离。
By the time she was around 16 weeks pregnant, Taylor and her mom were no longer speaking.
当她怀孕 16 周左右时，泰勒和她的妈妈不再说话了。
18 weeks, Taylor and her boyfriend were fighting.
18周后，泰勒和男友吵架了。
She wanted him to move back to Atlanta.
她希望他搬回亚特兰大。
He wanted her to move to Florida.
他希望她搬到佛罗里达州。
They broke up.
他们分手了。
At 22 weeks, Taylor was trying to take control of the situation.
22 周时，泰勒试图控制局面。
She would buy all the right baby things, line them up in all the right spots in her house, a mini fridge by the bed to store breast milk, small stacks of diapers in every room, so she could reach every little thing she needed when it was just her and the baby.
她会买所有合适的婴儿用品，把它们排列在家里所有合适的地方，床边有一个迷你冰箱用来储存母乳，每个房间都有一小堆尿布，这样当只有她和宝宝的时候，她就可以拿到她需要的每一件小东西。
This way, she thought, she could do this alone.
她想，这样她就可以独自完成这件事了。
At 24 weeks, Taylor lost her job.
24 周时，泰勒失业了。
She needed to pass a test to keep it.
她需要通过测试才能保留它。
And with everything that was happening with the baby, she said she just couldn't focus.
她说，随着孩子身上发生的一切，她无法集中注意力。
25 weeks, Taylor asked her ex, what role do you want with this baby?
25周时，泰勒问她的前任，你想在这个宝宝身上扮演什么角色？
He said, I want to be involved.
他说，我想参与。
But there's wanting to be involved and being able to.
但人们愿意参与并且能够参与。
She took that to mean he's out.
她认为这意味着他出去了。
So as she entered her third trimester, Taylor started imagining herself alone in the delivery room.
因此，当她进入妊娠晚期时，泰勒开始想象自己独自在产房里。
She would Uber herself to the hospital.
她自己打车去医院。
She scheduled a C-section.
她安排了剖腹产。
Four days before the date, I caught Taylor running around, getting ready.
约会前四天，我发现泰勒到处跑，准备着。
At that point, she said she didn't want anybody with her, especially her family.
当时，她说她不想让任何人陪伴她，尤其是她的家人。
Yeah, because I don't want everybody crowding me right after the birth, and then I don't want everybody in my house at the same time.
是的，因为我不希望出生后每个人都挤在我身边，而且我也不希望每个人同时在我的房子里。
And these are going to be my first moments learning how to be a mom.
这将是我第一次学习如何成为一名母亲。
And I don't want to do that in front of anybody either.
我也不想在任何人面前这样做。
On March 24, Taylor gave birth to a baby boy, exactly, to the day, nine months after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v.
3 月 24 日，泰勒生下了一名男婴，这一天正好是最高法院推翻罗伊诉科特迪瓦案 9 个月后的一天。
Wade.
韦德。
It went so freaking well.
一切进展得非常顺利。
Caroline Kitchener I called her when she got home from the hospital.
卡罗琳·基奇纳（Caroline Kitchener）从医院回家后，我给她打了电话。
Let me tell you something.
让我告诉你一件事。
The weirdest part about it is how fast it was.
最奇怪的部分是它的速度有多快。
It was like 10 minutes that they pulled this kid out of me.
大约十分钟后，他们就把这个孩子从我身上拉了出来。
I felt pressure.
我感到了压力。
And then the next thing you know, there's a [BLEEP] kid.
然后接下来你就会知道，有一个[BLEEP]孩子。
It was crazy.
太疯狂了。
I don't think there will ever be anything that will measure up to how surreal it felt to see a child come out of your stomach.
我认为没有什么能比得上看到一个孩子从你肚子里出来的那种超现实的感觉。
It's just like, whoa, I created that.
就像，哇，我创造了它。
You're just in shock.
你只是感到震惊。
Like, this is me?
比如说，这就是我吗？
This is all me.
这就是我的全部。
I created this.
我创造了这个。
And he came out with his eyes wide open.
他睁大眼睛走了出来。
He was very aware.
他非常清楚。
He's beautiful.
他很漂亮。
He's quiet.
他很安静。
He's not a normal baby.
他不是一个正常的婴儿。
He's just a super baby.
他只是一个超级宝宝。
Black, dark black hair.
黑色，深黑色的头发。
He's really perfect.
他真的很完美。
If you wanted a kid, he'd be like the blueprint.
如果你想要一个孩子，他就会像蓝图一样。
In the end, Taylor wasn't alone in the hospital.
最后，泰勒并不孤单在医院里。
She asked her cousin to give her a ride to the hospital.
她让表弟送她去医院。
The cousin stayed and took a video of the birth.
表弟留下来拍了出生的视频。
And Taylor says the cousin must have called other people in the family, because the day she gave birth--
泰勒说表弟一定给家里的其他人打了电话，因为她生孩子的那天——
My father came, same day.
我父亲同一天来了。
He also showed up the next day.
第二天他也出现了。
My mom came the next day, and she stayed the night every night after that.
第二天我妈妈就来了，此后她每天晚上都在这里过夜。
And then I also had family that just won't leave.
然后我还有不愿离开的家人。
They're like, I won't say or do anything.
他们就像，我不会说什么或做任何事。
I just want to be here.
我只想待在这里。
So I've come down off of my high horse because it's such a huge thing.
所以我放下了我的傲慢态度，因为这是一件大事。
And I think I underestimated, probably, how huge it was.
我想我可能低估了它的规模。
I had to really humble myself and be OK with people helping me.
我必须真正谦卑自己，并接受帮助我的人。
I'd get, like, two hours a night of sleep.
我每晚可以睡两个小时。
So I just needed help.
所以我只需要帮助。
[BABY FUSSES] That's him.
[婴儿大惊小怪] 就是他。
His pacifier came out.
他的奶嘴出来了。
The baby wakes up while we're talking, Cole Anthony.
我们说话的时候，孩子醒了，科尔·安东尼。
He's six days old.
他已经六天大了。
For months, I've been thinking about Taylor and wondering about two things.
几个月来，我一直在思考泰勒并想知道两件事。
Would she let people in once she had the baby?
生完孩子后，她会让人进来吗？
And also this question.
还有这个问题。
If these abortion laws were not in effect, if Roe had not been overturned, do you think you would have this baby now?
如果这些堕胎法没有生效，如果罗伊案没有被推翻，你认为你现在会生这个孩子吗？
No. Caroline Kitchener Wow.
不，卡罗琳·基奇纳 哇。
How does that make you feel?
这让你感觉如何？
It makes me feel bad.
这让我感觉很糟糕。
It makes me feel bad.
这让我感觉很糟糕。
But I know for a fact that I've spent so much money on this kid, I've had so much anguish, I've lost relationships.
但我知道一个事实，我在这个孩子身上花了很多钱，我经历了很多痛苦，我失去了人际关系。
I had to switch jobs.
我不得不换工作。
My body has changed.
我的身体发生了变化。
My mind has changed.
我的想法改变了。
I underestimated what I would have to sacrifice to totally go through with it.
我低估了我必须牺牲什么才能完全完成它。
And I feel like, although my baby is perfect, just because I have my baby doesn't mean that I'm happy that Roe versus Wade got changed.
我觉得，虽然我的孩子很完美，但仅仅因为我有了孩子并不意味着我很高兴罗伊与韦德的关系发生了变化。
Because my life is never going to be the same.
因为我的生活永远不会一样。
And I don't like that there's a piece of it that was impacted by a force that wasn't myself.
我不喜欢其中有一部分受到非我自己的力量的影响。
Like, if I just decided to do it, have a baby, it'd be one thing.
就像，如果我决定这么做，生个孩子，那是一回事。
But to know that any part of it was challenged by some outside force, it's so messed up.
但要知道其中任何一个部分都受到了一些外力的挑战，那就太乱了。
And although right now everything's happy, giggles, newborn stage, this is my life now-- my whole life, not just 18 years.
虽然现在一切都很幸福，咯咯笑，新生阶段，但这就是我现在的生活——我的一生，而不仅仅是18年。
But this is just-- things are really going to change.
但这只是——事情真的会发生变化。
There will be some moment, probably soon, when we'll all just get used to the idea that people travel hundreds of miles and cross state lines to get abortions.
有一天，也许很快，我们都会习惯人们长途跋涉数百英里、跨越州界去堕胎的想法。
That'll just seem normal, if it doesn't already.
这看起来很正常，如果还没有的话。
It'll seem normal that people have second-trimester abortions at home, that some people will panic and not know what to do with the fetal tissue, or feel too scared to seek medical attention.
人们在家中进行妊娠中期堕胎似乎很正常，有些人会惊慌失措，不知道如何处理胎儿组织，或者感到太害怕而不敢就医。
At some point in the future, that fear will not be remarkable.
在未来的某个时刻，这种恐惧不会太明显。
And we will also get used to this notion that, for many people, if you get pregnant in a state where abortion is banned and you do not want a baby, you may still wind up with one.
我们也会习惯这样的观念，即对于很多人来说，如果你在禁止堕胎的州怀孕并且你不想要孩子，你可能仍然会生一个孩子。
We are rapidly moving into that future, where all of this is normal, which means right now may be the last time we can truly feel how much has changed.
我们正在迅速进入那个未来，所有这一切都是正常的，这意味着现在可能是我们最后一次真正感受到发生了多大的变化。
For the people who wanted abortions nine months ago, the gap between what was and what is is very clear.
对于九个月前想要堕胎的人来说，过去和现在之间的差距非常明显。
Caroline Kitchener, she's a reporter at the Washington Post.
卡罗琳·基奇纳（Caroline Kitchener）是《华盛顿邮报》的记者。
Well, today's program was produced by Chana Joffe-Walt and Valerie Kipnis and edited by Laura Starcheski.
今天的节目由查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 和瓦莱丽·基普尼斯 (Valerie Kipnis) 制作，劳拉·斯塔切斯基 (Laura Starcheski) 编辑。
The people who put our program together today include Jane Ackermann, Elna Baker, Sean Cole, Michal Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Cassie Howley, Miki Meek, Alaa Mostafa, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天制作我们节目的人员包括 Jane Ackermann、Elna Baker、Sean Cole、Michal Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Cassie Howley、Miki Meek、Alaa Mostafa、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Peter Wallsten, Kainaz Amaria, Ali Block, "The Nocturnists" podcast, Kate Cole from The Northwest Abortion Access Fund, Elizabeth Nash, and Robert Marshall.
今天特别感谢 Peter Wallsten、Kainaz Amaria、Ali Block、“The Nocturnists”播客、西北堕胎基金的 Kate Cole、Elizabeth Nash 和 Robert Marshall。
Original music for today's show by Christina Courtin and Matt McGinley.
今天节目的原创音乐由 Christina Courtin 和 Matt McGinley 创作。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He remembers when the Lord spake unto him-- which, judging from what happened to Abraham and Noah and Lot, does not always usually work out so great.
他记得主对他说话的时候——从发生在亚伯拉罕、诺亚和罗得身上的事情来看，这通常并不总是那么有效。
Torey says God was like--
托里说上帝就像——
Hey what you doing?
嘿你在做什么？
And I was like, oh, dear god.
我当时想，哦，亲爱的上帝。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。