791: Math or Magic? - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #791 | February 9, 2024 791: Math or Magic?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 791 集 | 2024 年 2 月 9 日 791：数学还是魔法？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Tobin Low From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 Tobin Low 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是美国生活。
I'm Tobin Low, sitting in for Ira Glass.
我是托宾·洛 (Tobin Low)，代理艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
There's a story in my family that I love.
我家里有一个我很喜欢的故事。
It's actually a story about love, and it's one that I both fully enjoy, and is also the source of many years of romantic frustration.
这实际上是一个关于爱情的故事，这是我非常喜欢的一个故事，也是我多年来浪漫失意的根源。
It starts with my mom as a teenager growing up in San Francisco Chinatown.
这要从我妈妈十几岁的时候在旧金山唐人街长大开始说起。
A woman at the church she went to comes up to her one day, and says--
有一天，她去的教堂里的一位女士走过来对她说——
I have a nephew who's just perfect for you.
我有一个非常适合你的侄子。
And I'm going to set up this date, and you're just made for each other.
我会安排这个约会，你们就是天作之合。
You have to meet each other.
你们必须见面。
And she was determined to make that happen.
她决心实现这一目标。
Maybe you can see where this is going.
也许你能明白这是怎么回事。
This is, in fact, my very own How I Met Your Father story.
事实上，这就是我自己的《老爸老爸浪漫史》的故事。
Anyway, my parents were both invited to a party where they could see each other for the first time.
不管怎样，我的父母都被邀请参加一个他们第一次见面的聚会。
So there's a room full of people, and I don't know which one he's going to be.
所以有一屋子挤满了人，我不知道他会是哪一个。
And so I'm sort of scanning the room, and I look at some people and think, oh, well, maybe that one has a really good personality.
所以我扫视了整个房间，看着一些人，我想，哦，好吧，也许那个人的性格真的很好。
So you're saying there were some real uggos in the room.
所以你是说房间里有一些真正的乌戈斯。
Well, they were just-- you know, they probably have a great personality.
嗯，他们只是——你知道，他们可能很有个性。
And so when I finally got introduced to him, I just was so relieved that he was good-looking.
所以当我最终被介绍给他时，我感到很欣慰，因为他很帅。
He met my expectation of what I hoped it would be.
他满足了我的期望。
It was like, this huge sigh of relief.
就好像，这一次巨大的松了一口气。
My dad was 19 at the time.
我父亲当时19岁。
My mom, 18.
我妈妈，18岁。
Their first date was at a French restaurant.
他们的第一次约会是在一家法国餐厅。
She liked his good looks and that he was kind.
她喜欢他的英俊外表，也喜欢他的善良。
He liked how quietly assured she was.
他喜欢她平静而自信的样子。
Afterwards, they went to the movies, saw The Graduate, watched Dustin Hoffman bust Katherine Ross out of that wedding chapel, her bouquet still in hand.
之后，他们去看电影，看了《毕业生》，看着达斯汀·霍夫曼把凯瑟琳·罗斯赶出了婚礼教堂，她的花束还握在手里。
By the end of the date, they knew they had something special.
约会结束时，他们知道自己有一些特别的东西。
But the part of the story that has stuck with me is this moment my mom talks about, a couple of months after that.
但这个故事中让我印象深刻的部分是我妈妈谈论的这一刻，那是几个月后的事。
My mom and dad ended up at the same college.
我的妈妈和爸爸最终考入了同一所大学。
And they'd spend every night together, hanging out at each other's dorm rooms.
他们每晚都会在一起度过，在彼此的宿舍里闲逛。
One night he walked her to the elevator, and he kissed her.
一天晚上，他送她到电梯，吻了她。
We were saying goodbye at the elevator and had a hug and kiss.
我们在电梯里告别，拥抱亲吻。
It was like, something magic about that moment was like, this is going to work.
就好像，那一刻有一种神奇的感觉，这将会起作用。
They were married within the year.
他们在一年内结婚了。
And they just have one of those marriages.
他们只有其中一场婚姻。
They've been happily together for 52 years.
他们已经幸福地在一起生活了 52 年。
The part that gets me-- they both knew it was right.
让我感动的部分是——他们都知道这是对的。
As I grew up into an adult who dates, my dad was the one who said, don't worry, you'll figure it out.
当我长大成为一个约会的成年人时，我父亲对我说，别担心，你会解决的。
But my mom, on the other hand, she had more specific advice.
但另一方面，我妈妈有更具体的建议。
Whenever I called about how a boyfriend and I had broken up or that dating was hard, her advice-- if you're with the right person, it should just feel like magic.
每当我打电话谈论我和男朋友分手或者约会很难时，她的建议是——如果你和对的人在一起，那感觉就像魔法一样。
If you don't feel magic, then it's time to bail.
如果你不觉得有魔力，那么就该放弃了。
Can you tell me what you meant by magic, as best as you can describe it?
你能尽可能详细地描述一下你所说的魔法是什么意思吗？
You look at the person and you feel that, against all odds, you're always going to-- that's the one for you.
你看着这个人，你会觉得，尽管困难重重，你总是会——那就是适合你的人。
And there's no way of defining what that will be, I think, until it happens.
我认为，在它发生之前，无法定义它会是什么。
And if it never happens, then I'm just not sure that's the relationship, at least, that I would want for you.
如果这永远不会发生，那么我只是不确定这是否是我想要的关系，至少是我想要的。
I wanted what my parents had, so I followed the advice.
我想要我父母拥有的东西，所以我听从了建议。
I'd go on dates-- dates that were perfectly fine, mind you.
我会去约会——请注意，这是非常好的约会。
The conversation would be easy.
谈话会很容易。
The company, enjoyable.
公司，很愉快。
But at the end, I'd think, nope, didn't feel it.
但最后我想，不，没有感觉。
No magic.
没有魔法。
Or I'd convince myself that I did feel the magic, and then think everything, even warning signs, were proof of that magic.
或者我会说服自己，我确实感受到了魔力，然后认为一切，甚至是警告信号，都是这种魔力的证明。
Case in point-- for my 25th birthday, an ex-boyfriend of mine gave me a card.
举个例子——在我 25 岁生日时，我的一位前男友送给我一张卡片。
Inside was a couple of "buy 10, get one free" coupons he'd filled up from his work lunches.
里面有几张“买 10 送 1”的优惠券，是他用工作午餐填满的。
He was giving me his freebies.
他给了我他的免费赠品。
And I wish I was lying when I say that my response was, wow, he ate 10 Hale and Hearty soups, for me?
我希望当我说我的反应是，哇，他为我吃了 10 份硬朗汤？
Magic.
魔法。
This is how most of my dating life as a 20-something went.
这就是我 20 多岁时的大部分约会生活。
But if my mom was on one shoulder telling me to look for magic, on the other shoulder was Elizabeth, one of my best friends.
但如果我妈妈在一个肩膀上告诉我去寻找魔法，那么在另一只肩膀上则是伊丽莎白，我最好的朋友之一。
When it came to dating, she adopted a very different attitude.
当谈到约会时，她采取了截然不同的态度。
Her thought was, you have to be practical.
她的想法是，你必须务实。
It's not about searching for a big feeling.
这不是为了寻找一种伟大的感觉。
It's more about data collection.
更多的是关于数据收集。
Elizabeth was sometimes going out on three first-dates a week from OkCupid.
伊丽莎白有时每周都会从 OkCupid 那里进行三次初次约会。
It got to a point where, when we'd talk about the guy she had dates with, it was easier to nickname them as "OK," like I met them on OkCupid, plus adjective.
到了这样的地步，当我们谈论与她约会的那个人时，更容易给他们起绰号“好吧”，就像我在 OkCupid 上认识他们一样，再加上形容词。
So it was like, OKStandUp, because I think I went on a date with a standup, or like an aspiring standup.
所以就像是，OKStandUp，因为我想我是和单口喜剧约会的，或者像一个有抱负的单口喜剧。
OKMedStudent.
OKMedStudent。
OKOccupyWallStreet.
好的占领华尔街。
I don't know if you remember him.
我不知道你还记不记得他。
I do remember that guy.
我确实记得那个人。
He kept pulling out his phone during their date to tweet about the movement.
在他们约会期间，他不断拿出手机来发布关于这一运动的推文。
Let's see how many retweets we get for this, I remember him saying on our second date.
“让我们看看我们得到了多少转发，”我记得他在我们第二次约会时说道。
And I was like, this isn't going to have a third.
我当时想，这不会有第三个了。
This is very strange.
这很奇怪。
Elizabeth's advice for me went something like this.
伊丽莎白给我的建议是这样的。
Dating is like being an anthropologist.
约会就像是一名人类学家。
You go on a bunch of dates.
你去参加一堆约会。
You notice the bits and pieces that maybe you liked from each guy, slowly sharpening the picture of what type of person you might have a successful relationship with.
你会注意到每个人身上你可能喜欢的点点滴滴，慢慢地清晰地了解你可能与什么样的人建立成功的关系。
For her, going on a lot of bad dates was just part of the process.
对她来说，经历很多糟糕的约会只是这个过程的一部分。
I'm saying it's a numbers game.
我是说这是一个数字游戏。
I'm saying you have to, like-- you can't be disheartened by the fact that your numbers are going to look bad.
我是说你必须这样做——你不能因为你的数据看起来很糟糕而感到沮丧。
You have to feel like, what have I got to lose.
你必须感觉，我会失去什么。
[LAUGHTER] A little bit less precious about every interaction.
[笑声] 每一次互动都变得不那么珍贵了。
And her practicality-- it worked.
而她的实用性——确实奏效了。
Elizabeth eventually did meet someone.
伊丽莎白最终确实遇到了一个人。
All that dating she did-- she says it allowed her to pay attention to all the small things she liked about him.
她说，她所做的所有约会让她能够关注她喜欢他的所有小事情。
They got married a couple of years ago.
他们几年前结婚了。
I officiated the wedding.
我主持了婚礼。
So why am I telling you all this?
那么我为什么要告诉你这一切呢？
Because I feel like for anyone who has ever been single and wanted to find love-- and I'm talking about people that want lifelong partnership-- you have received advice from at least one of these two frustratingly opposed camps.
因为我觉得对于任何曾经单身并想要寻找爱情的人来说——我指的是那些想要终身伴侣的人——你至少从这两个令人沮丧的对立阵营中的一个收到了建议。
Camp one, the "look for magic" people, like my mom, and camp two, people like Elizabeth, who say it's more like math.
第一阵营是“寻找魔法”的人，比如我妈妈；第二阵营是像伊丽莎白这样的人，他们说这更像是数学。
Math is inexact, but I think you get my drift.
数学并不精确，但我想你明白我的意思了。
They say use your head, not your heart.
他们说用你的头脑，而不是你的心。
Be practical.
务实一点。
Two warring factions, both with their champions, and a bunch of us in the middle, just trying to figure out which way is up.
两个交战的派系，都有他们的冠军，而我们一群人在中间，只是想找出哪条路是向上的。
Who has it right?
谁说得对？
Will love find a way?
爱情会找到出路吗？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "10 Things I Require About You." So we're going to start off the show today with someone who is very much in the math camp, and who finds herself challenged by someone who could not disagree more.
第一幕，“我要求你做的十件事”。所以我们今天要从一个非常喜欢数学阵营的人开始这个节目，她发现自己受到了一个非常不同意的人的挑战。
The math person-- her name is Zarna Garg.
数学家——她的名字是扎娜·加尔格。
Her story starts when she was in her 20s.
她的故事要从她20多岁时开始。
She was single, living in Cleveland, and the fact that she was single totally bothered her.
她是单身，住在克利夫兰，单身这一事实让她非常烦恼。
This was in the late '90s, by the way.
顺便说一句，那是在 90 年代末。
You know, those years were the peak years of the TV show, Friends.
要知道，那几年是电视剧《老友记》的鼎盛时期。
Do you remember that show?
你还记得那个节目吗？
Of course.
当然。
Zarna Garg That show was the scariest show to me.
Zarna Garg 那个节目对我来说是最可怕的节目。
Wait, why?
等等，为什么？
Zarna Garg Because no one was ever getting married.
扎纳·加尔格 因为没有人结婚。
They were dating, they were not dating, they were dating, they were on a break, they were off the break, then they were dating other people within the same friend group.
他们在约会，他们没有约会，他们在约会，他们在休息，他们在休息，然后他们在同一个朋友群中的其他人约会。
Like, to somebody like me, who came from the world that I came from, that was a horror show.
就像，对于像我这样来自我所来自的世界的人来说，那是一场恐怖秀。
Zarna moved to the US on her own when she was 16, leaving behind her family in India and a likely arranged marriage.
扎尔纳 (Zarna) 16 岁时独自移居美国，离开了印度的家人和可能包办的婚姻。
She wanted to be independent and to go to college.
她想要独立并上大学。
She got into law school in Cleveland, so she was very much on track.
她进入了克利夫兰的法学院，所以她已经步入正轨。
But at the same time, she still had this idea in her head that marriage provided a solidness.
但与此同时，她的脑海里仍然有这样的想法：婚姻提供了坚实的保障。
It was something she wanted deeply.
这是她内心深处想要的东西。
So she found an online dating site for Indian singles, and decided to post an ad for herself.
因此，她找到了一个针对印度单身人士的在线约会网站，并决定为自己发布一则广告。
Posting an ad to find a husband-- not so unique in the world Zarna's from.
发布寻找丈夫的广告——这在扎尔纳的家乡并不罕见。
But what was unique was the fact that she was posting for herself.
但独特之处在于她是为自己发帖。
The other ads were from aunts or moms trying to arrange matches for their daughters and nieces.
其他广告来自阿姨或妈妈们试图为她们的女儿和侄女安排比赛。
Not Zarna.
不是扎尔纳。
She was taking the reins.
她正在掌控一切。
And her ad was, to put it lightly, specific.
简单地说，她的广告很具体。
What she wrote was not a singles ad, so much as a list of qualifications.
她写的不是单身广告，而是一份资格清单。
It was like a series of bullet points.
这就像一系列要点。
She remembers it like this.
她记得是这样的。
You have to be very serious.
你必须非常认真。
You have to have proof of your seriousness.
你必须有证据证明你是认真的。
I want to see what you do.
我想看看你做了什么。
I even would like to see some tax returns, and you know, what job prospects you have.
我什至想看看一些纳税申报表，你知道，你有什么工作前景。
I mean, it was nuts;
我的意思是，这太疯狂了；
She also said, you have to be brilliant.
她还说，你必须很聪明。
That was a big one because--
那是一件大事，因为——
I figured, if I met somebody brilliant, life would be fine.
我想，如果我遇到一个才华横溢的人，生活就会很美好。
And whatever problems would happen, we would work them out together, because he would be brilliant enough to figure that out.
无论发生什么问题，我们都会一起解决，因为他足够聪明，能够解决这个问题。
Oh, so I was very specific about that.
哦，所以我对此非常具体。
I was like, I need to see proof of your brilliance.
我当时想，我需要看到你才华横溢的证据。
[LAUGHTER] You know, I need to see where you went to college or whatever you're doing with your life.
[笑声]你知道，我需要看看你在哪里上的大学或者你在做什么。
Oh, and also, I was like, you must have a good mother, because I don't have a mother, and this is my one chance to fix that.
哦，还有，我想，你一定有一个好妈妈，因为我没有妈妈，这是我解决这个问题的唯一机会。
She also figured they should have accurate data about her.
她还认为他们应该有关于她的准确数据。
She said, I'm a student, I'm short, only 5 feet tall.
她说，我是一名学生，我个子矮，只有5英尺高。
I'm not the skinniest person.
我不是最瘦的人。
I do think that my ad, as obnoxious as it was, had an element of honesty to it.
我确实认为我的广告虽然令人讨厌，但也有诚实的成分。
An Indian ad would have been, fair and lovely, peaches-and-cream complexion, tall, skinny.
印度的广告应该是白皙可爱、桃色和奶油色的肤色、高高瘦瘦。
I never used any of those words, because none of those words would have been true for me.
我从来没有用过这些词，因为这些词对我来说都不真实。
You know, there might be somebody who hears your story and thinks, wow, that is kind of a ruthlessly practical way to go about finding a partner and finding love.
你知道，可能有人听到你的故事后会想，哇，这是寻找伴侣和爱情的一种非常实用的方法。
But they're right.
但他们是对的。
They're right.
他们是对的。
It is a ruthlessly practical way, and it should be, because marriage is a contract.
这是一种残酷实用的方式，也应该如此，因为婚姻是一份契约。
And like all contracts, you should think twice before getting into it.
与所有合同一样，您在签订合同之前应该三思而后行。
I don't believe that just falling blindly in love is the answer.
我不相信盲目地坠入爱河就是答案。
Apparently, there were a lot of people who felt they met the criteria.
显然，有很多人认为自己符合标准。
Her inbox became flooded with messages, all from men who wanted to meet in person.
她的收件箱里挤满了消息，全部来自那些想要亲自见面的男人。
Zarna picked a few of them, said sure, let's meet, but you have to come to Cleveland.
扎尔纳挑选了其中的几个，说当然可以，我们见面吧，但你必须来克利夫兰。
And a surprising number said yes.
令人惊讶的数字表示愿意。
Men flew from all over different parts of America to come meet me in Cleveland.
人们从美国各地飞来克利夫兰与我会面。
And I was actually pretty clinical about it, and as were they, mostly, once they realized what the vibe was.
事实上，我对此非常冷静，就像他们一样，大多数情况下，一旦他们意识到这种氛围是什么。
We met at a McDonald's in Cleveland that had, like, open windows.
我们在克利夫兰的一家麦当劳见面，那里的窗户都是开着的。
So it felt safe.
所以感觉很安全。
And they were all highly educated doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs.
他们都是受过高等教育的医生、律师、企业家。
And for one reason or another, it wasn't working out.
但由于这样或那样的原因，它没有成功。
They liked me, I didn't like them, or whatever.
他们喜欢我，我不喜欢他们，或者其他什么。
Or I liked them, they didn't like me.
或者我喜欢他们，他们不喜欢我。
What did she care?
她在乎什么？
She had an inbox of hundreds of messages from other suitors who are just as qualified for the position of husband.
她的收件箱里有数百条来自其他同样有资格担任丈夫职位的追求者的信息。
What's that saying?
那是什么意思？
I think it comes from Shakespeare, or maybe The Canterbury Tales.
我认为它来自莎士比亚，或者可能来自《坎特伯雷故事集》。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Next.
下一个。
It's in the middle of all these messages that she gets a different kind of message.
正是在所有这些信息的中间，她收到了不同类型的信息。
And this person does not offer up his credentials or his tax returns.
此人不会提供他的凭据或纳税申报表。
He simply writes--
他只是简单地写道——
This isn't a real ad.
这不是真正的广告。
Is it?
是吗？
Are you a real person?
你是一个真实的人吗？
The message goes on to make fun of her.
该消息继续取笑她。
It feels like a troll.
感觉就像一个巨魔。
And if this were a movie, the camera would zoom out of Zarna's window at her house in Cleveland.
如果这是一部电影，镜头将从扎尔纳位于克利夫兰的家中的窗户拉出。
Maybe we would see a crude animation of a globe rotating on its axis.
也许我们会看到一个地球仪绕其轴旋转的原始动画。
A dotted line moving from the US, going first to Europe, then zeroing in on Switzerland-- until the camera would zoom in on an office building in Zurich.
一条虚线从美国出发，首先到达欧洲，然后瞄准瑞士——直到镜头放大到苏黎世的一座办公楼。
Because that's where the message came from-- a computer programmer working late one night at his office.
因为这就是消息的来源——一位计算机程序员一天晚上在他的办公室工作到很晚。
His job was fixing a Y2K bug for his company.
他的工作是为公司修复千年虫问题。
I know.
我知道。
So '90s.
所以九十年代。
His name was Shalabh.
他的名字叫沙拉巴。
He was single.
他是单身。
And when he found Zarna's ad while randomly surfing the internet, he thought it was ridiculous.
当他在网上随意浏览时发现Zarna的广告时，他觉得这很可笑。
He called over his colleagues, and said, hey, get a load of this girl.
他叫来了他的同事，说，嘿，去了解一下这个女孩。
I mean, it was three of us that looked at it, because I called my friends in, and we were just making fun of it.
我的意思是，我们三个人看着它，因为我叫了我的朋友进来，我们只是开玩笑。
We were like, I don't know who this girl is.
我们当时就想，我不知道这个女孩是谁。
What were the elements of it that you were making fun of in the ad?
您在广告中取笑的元素是什么？
I mean, the seriousness-- a girl who is this much work even before she has met someone, can you imagine what she would be like into a serious relationship?
我的意思是，严肃性——一个女孩在遇到某人之前就已经付出了这么多的努力，你能想象她进入一段认真的关系会是什么样子吗？
It's like, start to finish, work, work, work, and no fun.
就像，从开始到结束，工作、工作、工作，没有乐趣。
Cut back to Cleveland, small house in the suburbs.
镜头回到克利夫兰，郊区的小房子。
Zarna types back, "Yeah, I'm real." He replies--
扎尔纳回复道：“是的，我是真的。”他回答说——
You know, what makes you think that you'll find someone?
你知道，是什么让你认为你会找到某人？
I doubt anybody would take on that amount of seriousness at such a young age, because there's almost no fun in your classified.
我怀疑有人会在这么年轻的时候表现出如此严肃的态度，因为分类广告中几乎没有任何乐趣。
I was like, yeah, and I'm actually on a mission to do something.
我当时想，是的，我实际上是有使命要做一些事情。
What are you guys doing?
你们在做什么？
She was like, I don't know who is the bigger loser--
她说，我不知道谁是最大的输家——
[LAUGHTER] --someone who is seriously seeking out a life partner, like myself, or someone who is just sitting in a random room, programming and surfing young women on the internet.
[笑声]——像我这样认真寻找人生伴侣的人，或者只是坐在随机的房间里，在互联网上编程和浏览年轻女性的人。
He's like, so have you gotten any responses?
他说，那你有收到任何回复吗？
I was like, as a matter of fact, many, many responses.
事实上，我有很多很多的回应。
You want to see some?
你想看一些吗？
And I forwarded him a whole bunch of ads, responses that I had.
我向他转发了一大堆广告和我收到的回复。
And he was like, I can't believe this.
他说，我简直不敢相信这一点。
And I said, why are you wasting my time?
我说，你为什么浪费我的时间？
I was then getting irritated, because my ad clearly said, only contact me if you want to get married.
我当时就很生气，因为我的广告上明确写着，只有想结婚才联系我。
Shalabh was not interested in getting married.
沙拉巴对结婚不感兴趣。
His life was filled with travel and friends and skiing.
他的生活充满了旅行、朋友和滑雪。
Also, he lived an ocean away.
而且，他住在远方。
He was not the solution to Zarna's problem.
他并不能解决扎尔纳的问题。
But they kept emailing.
但他们一直在发电子邮件。
It was mostly them giving each other a hard time.
主要是他们互相为难。
This went on for weeks.
这种情况持续了几个星期。
Then, he would then be like, hey, did you end up meeting that guy-- you know, the one you forwarded me?
然后，他会说，嘿，你最终见到那个人了吗——你知道，就是你转发给我的那个人吗？
And I would be like, yeah, I met him, but I don't think it's going to work, and whatever.
我会说，是的，我见过他，但我认为这不会起作用，等等。
So we became friends, even despite my every intention to not make friends.
所以我们成了朋友，尽管我一心不想交朋友。
Oh, so he was a little bit keeping tabs on your progress, too, then.
哦，那么他也在密切关注你的进展。
He was.
他是。
I don't know why he was so curious, but he was.
我不知道他为什么这么好奇，但他确实好奇。
Oh, Zarna, I think we all know why he was so curious.
哦，扎尔纳，我想我们都知道他为什么这么好奇。
After so much back-and-forth, Shalabh had this feeling like, at this point, I can't not meet this girl.
经过这么多的来来回回，沙拉巴有这样的感觉，在这一点上，我不能不遇见这个女孩。
Well, he said he really wanted to meet me.
嗯，他说他真的很想见我。
And I told him that I was moving to New York for my first job, and because I thought I would have a higher likelihood of meeting an Indian guy in New York than in Cleveland.
我告诉他我要搬到纽约去寻找第一份工作，因为我认为在纽约遇到印度人的可能性比在克利夫兰更高。
And he was like, I really want to meet you.
他说，我真的很想见见你。
And I said, OK, I can meet you at the airport.
我说，好吧，我可以去机场接你。
Zarna says this is when I'm landing in New York from Cleveland.
扎尔纳说这是我从克利夫兰抵达纽约的时间。
Shalabh says he can get a flight that arrives around the same time.
沙拉巴说他可以买到大约在同一时间到达的航班。
Zarna says, OK, but I'm only willing to say a quick hi at the airport.
扎尔纳说，好吧，但我只想在机场打个招呼。
She did not want to waste time on friend dates.
她不想把时间浪费在朋友约会上。
Because, as I said, I was mission-driven.
因为，正如我所说，我是有使命驱动的。
The minute I reached New York, I had-- 2 o'clock, I was meeting this guy.
我一到达纽约，两点钟，我就遇到了这个人。
4 o'clock, I was meeting that guy.
4点钟，我正在和那个人见面。
So there wasn't going to be a lot of time.
所以不会有很多时间。
And why was I meeting this guy from Switzerland anyway?
我为什么要遇见这个来自瑞士的家伙？
Because there was no real interest there in that way.
因为那样并没有真正的兴趣。
And he said, fine, I'll come to New York and we'll meet at the airport.
他说，好吧，我会来纽约，我们会在机场见面。
It's fine.
没关系。
He said, I just need to see that you're real.
他说，我只是想看看你是不是真的。
They found each other at the airport.
他们在机场找到了对方。
Zarna remembers thinking he was cute, but also, he immediately annoyed her.
扎尔娜记得她觉得他很可爱，但他也立刻惹恼了她。
He informed me at the airport that he had nowhere to go while in America.
他在机场告诉我他在美国无处可去。
So now I'm like, now, you're stuck with me?
所以现在我想，现在，你被我困住了吗？
I don't have a place to take you I barely had a tiny apartment for myself.
我没有地方可以带你去，我自己也只有一间小公寓。
And he's like, but I don't know.
他就像，但我不知道。
I'm here with my toothbrush and my passport.
我带着牙刷和护照来了。
I have nowhere to go.
我无处可去。
Zarna says, fine, you can stay with me.
扎尔纳说，好吧，你可以留在我身边。
She had made arrangements to stay at her cousin's apartment.
她已经安排住在她表弟的公寓里。
He could crash.
他可能会崩溃。
And then, in the cab on the way there, something about the anticipation of meeting face to face and then finally, seeing each other, something happened.
然后，在去那里的出租车里，一些关于面对面见面的期待，最后，看到对方，发生了一些事情。
When we met, from that point on, all the way to the apartment we couldn't keep our hands off of each other.
当我们见面时，从那时起，一直到公寓，我们的手都离不开对方。
It was really passionate.
真的很热情。
They kissed.
他们接吻了。
There was a spark.
出现了火花。
But they also both agreed there was nowhere for a relationship to go.
但他们也都同意，这段关系已经无处可去。
Zarna was not going to let him get in the way.
扎尔纳不会让他妨碍他。
She kept her scheduled dates for that day.
她保留了当天的预定日期。
There were two of them.
他们有两个人。
She dropped Shalabh off at the apartment and said, stay here, do not move, I have a husband to go meet.
她把沙拉巴送到公寓，说，呆在这里，别动，我有一个丈夫要去见。
And just like her routine in Cleveland, she arranged for them to meet in public places.
就像她在克利夫兰的惯例一样，她安排他们在公共场所见面。
First, in the lobby of the building she was staying at, then on to a coffee shop.
首先是在她住的大楼的大厅，然后去了一家咖啡店。
What she had not planned on was that Shalabh would not stay at home like he promised.
让她没想到的是，沙拉巴不会像他承诺的那样呆在家里。
Instead, he crashed both of her dates, would just conveniently show up in the lobby or at the coffee shop.
相反，他破坏了她的两次约会，只是方便地出现在大厅或咖啡厅。
He would just be like, hi, I'm Shalabh, with no explanation.
他只会说，嗨，我是沙拉巴，没有任何解释。
That made it even more suspicious.
这让大家更加疑惑了。
Oh, he introduced himself to your dates.
哦，他向你的约会对象做了自我介绍。
Yeah.
是的。
And my dates were like, is this your brother?
我的约会就像，这是你的兄弟吗？
I'm like, no. But it was hard to explain to them what exactly was the relationship.
我想，不。但很难向他们解释到底是什么关系。
So I would be like, no, no, he's just a friend.
所以我会说，不，不，他只是一个朋友。
He's visiting.
他来访了。
But, clearly, it looked odd.
但是，显然，这看起来很奇怪。
Was your intent, you think, to throw off the date a little bit?
你认为你的意图是稍微推迟约会吗？
A little bit to throw off the date, but remember, I was early 20s.
有点推迟约会，但请记住，我才 20 岁出头。
Even though I had not much to show for it, I was fairly arrogant myself.
虽然我没有什么出彩的地方，但我自己也相当傲慢。
Because at least in my mind, I was one of the top colleges in India, I was doing a job in Zurich, making good money.
因为至少在我看来，我是印度顶尖的大学之一，我在苏黎世工作，赚了很多钱。
So I was certainly not insecure.
所以我当然不是没有安全感。
If anything, on the other side of it, in terms of being more arrogant.
如果有的话，从另一方面来说，那就是更加傲慢。
I see.
我懂了。
But there was an energy of, like, let me see who this guy is.
但有一种能量，就像，让我看看这个人是谁。
Yeah, let me see who this guy is, and what is so special about a doctor guy.
是啊，让我看看这个人是谁，一个医生有什么特别之处。
Zarna could have been annoyed by all this.
扎尔纳可能会对这一切感到恼火。
But she found, somehow, she wasn't.
但她发现，不知何故，她不是。
By then, I had a friendship enough with him that even when I was on a date I was thinking about him.
那时我和他已经有了足够的友谊，即使在约会的时候我也会想着他。
Like, I wonder what he's doing.
就像，我想知道他在做什么。
So my brain was already all over the place about what exactly are we doing here.
所以我的大脑已经开始思考我们到底在做什么。
Zarna ended up spending a couple of days with Shalabh.
扎尔纳最终和沙拉巴一起度过了几天。
They walked around the city, talked about their lives, debated about politics and how they felt about America, shared how they both grew up in India, how they had both left home.
他们在城市里漫步，谈论自己的生活，辩论政治以及他们对美国的感受，分享他们如何在印度长大，如何离开家乡。
He had his own loneliness.
他有他自己的孤独。
He had his own really difficult journey.
他有自己非常艰难的旅程。
He is an ambitious guy.
他是一个雄心勃勃的人。
I think something about my ad and my world made him feel like, oh, my god, this sounds like my world.
我认为我的广告和我的世界让他感觉，哦，天哪，这听起来像是我的世界。
You know?
你知道？
And something about dealing with him made me feel like he's not so dissimilar from me and how I think.
和他打交道让我觉得他和我以及我的想法并没有那么不同。
They both remember a turning point in that first visit, which brings us to the classic part of stories like this-- when it starts to rain.
他们都记得第一次访问时的一个转折点，这给我们带来了此类故事的经典部分——下雨的时候。
Titanic had just come out.
泰坦尼克号刚刚出来。
I remember we went for that movie in the rain.
我记得我们是在雨中去看那部电影的。
She used to love getting wet in light rain, but refused to carry an umbrella.
她以前很喜欢被小雨淋湿，但不肯带伞。
You know how New York rain is, right?
你知道纽约的雨有多大吧？
It was pouring rain.
天正下着倾盆大雨。
And we'd just finish a 3-and-1/2-hour-long movie, where Jack was dead and Rose was going to go on with her life.
我们刚刚拍完一部时长 3 又 1/2 小时的电影，杰克死了，罗丝却要继续她的生活。
And I'm like, that was probably the moment.
我想，那可能就是那个时刻。
And I'm thinking to myself, that is how fickle life can be, and do I really want to not have this woman in my life?
我心里想，生活就是这么变幻无常，我真的不想让这个女人出现在我的生活中吗？
Probably, that would be the one moment when I thought that this might be the woman for me.
也许，那一刻我觉得这可能就是适合我的女人。
And then, of course as everything we do ends up in a fight, we fought about it, too.
当然，我们所做的一切最终都会引发争吵，我们也为此而争吵。
Because there was space on that raft.
因为那个木筏上还有空间。
He could have been saved.
他本来可以得救的。
So then we started fighting about that and whether she should have thrown the necklace into the water or not.
于是我们开始争论这个问题，以及她是否应该把项链扔进水里。
It sounds like you kind of even enjoyed disagreeing with him.
听起来你甚至很享受与他意见不同。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
To this day, my favorite thing to do is to fight with my husband.
直到今天，我最喜欢做的事情就是和我丈夫吵架。
If you haven't caught on by now, I suppose that's a spoiler.
如果你现在还没有明白，我想这就是剧透。
Within a couple of months of that visit, Shalabh bought Zarna an emerald-green ring.
在那次访问后的几个月内，沙拉巴给扎尔纳买了一枚翠绿戒指。
They were married a little over a year after he sent her the message that made her so mad.
在他给她发了令她如此生气的信息后，他们结婚了一年多。
They've been together now for 24 years.
他们已经在一起24年了。
If I can do anything, I want to go on a long walk and have a robust fight with him about everything-- about the politics, the movies-- yes, of course.
如果我能做点什么的话，我想出去散散步，并与他就一切事情进行激烈的斗争——关于政治、电影——是的，当然。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Yeah.
是的。
What is it about the fighting that you enjoy?
你喜欢的战斗是什么？
He's really brilliant.
他真的很聪明。
That's the one thing I got right.
这是我做对的一件事。
Zarna admits that, yes, some magic snuck into her life.
扎尔纳承认，是的，一些魔法潜入了她的生活。
But she sees this whole story largely as a victory for math.
但她认为这整个故事很大程度上是数学的胜利。
She wrote down exactly what she wanted, and she got it.
她准确地写下了她想要的东西，然后她就得到了。
Shalabh actually does match a bunch of the things on the list.
Shalabh 实际上确实符合列表中的很多内容。
For example, he has a good mother, and Zarna really loves her.
例如，他有一个好母亲，扎尔纳真的很爱她。
Shalabh, though-- sees the story totally differently.
然而，沙拉巴对这个故事的看法完全不同。
He thinks the fact that they met through this bizarre set of circumstances, it's an argument for magic.
他认为他们在这种奇怪的情况下相遇，这是对魔法的一个论据。
Which is funny, I'm used to couples disagreeing about why they broke up-- who said what, and who's to blame.
有趣的是，我已经习惯了夫妻对于分手原因存在分歧——谁说了什么，谁应该受到责备。
But I've never known a couple who disagrees about the thing that brought them together.
但据我所知，没有哪对夫妇对让他们走到一起的事情有不同意见。
And this disagreement over math versus magic, practicality versus romance-- it's continued into everything about their lives.
这种关于数学与魔法、实用性与浪漫的分歧——一直延续到他们生活的方方面面。
Zarna still considers herself the pragmatic one in the family, Shalabh more of the dreamer.
扎尔纳仍然认为自己是家里务实的人，而沙拉巴则更像是一个梦想家。
And now that they're parents, it means they're giving their kids competing advice.
现在他们成为了父母，这意味着他们正在给孩子提供相互竞争的建议。
He will tell my kids, oh, you should go fall in love.
他会告诉我的孩子们，哦，你们应该去恋爱。
No, don't fall in love.
不，不要恋爱。
This is what has caused all the problems in the world-- everybody falling in love.
这就是造成世界上所有问题的原因——每个人都坠入爱河。
So, yes, he is the romantic, and it's like, I can't stop it.
所以，是的，他是个浪漫的人，就像，我无法阻止它。
And I have to work around it with my kids, and remind them that their dad is wrong, entirely wrong.
我必须和我的孩子们一起解决这个问题，并提醒他们，他们的父亲错了，完全错了。
And our life is proof that I'm right.
我们的生活证明我是对的。
Well, and I could also say our life is proof that my romanticism has provided me with a very great career, a great family, good health, kids that are healthy.
好吧，我还可以说，我们的生活证明了我的浪漫主义为我提供了一个非常伟大的事业，一个美好的家庭，身体健康，孩子们也健康。
So what's wrong with that?
那么这有什么问题呢？
I mean, you see why he's a problem?
我的意思是，你明白为什么他是个问题吗？
What's wrong with that is actually, my deep thinking and planning is what made all of that happen.
事实上，问题在于，我的深刻思考和计划才是导致这一切发生的原因。
It's not your romantic thinking.
这不是你浪漫的想法。
Am I right, Tobin?
我说得对吗，托宾？
I don't think he can take sides like that.
我认为他不能那样选边站队。
If Ira was here, he would agree with me.
如果艾拉在这里，他会同意我的观点。
I don't know that I can authoritatively say who has it right here.
我不知道我能权威地说谁拥有它。
But watching them each dig in their heels on their own point of view, it seems like together they balance each other out.
但看着他们各自坚持自己的观点，他们似乎在一起互相平衡。
And I imagine they force each other to see the world a little differently.
我想他们会迫使彼此以不同的方式看待世界。
Or, if not, at least they can argue about it.
或者，如果没有，至少他们可以争论一下。
Coming up-- a case for magic from the luckiest and maybe most unrelatable among us-- those jerks-- sorry, people-- who fell in love at first sight.
即将到来——我们当中最幸运、也许是最不相关的人——那些一见钟情的混蛋——对不起，人们——的魔法案例。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Tobin Low today's show, "Math or Magic," stories of people finding love by trusting some mystical force in the universe or just being practical about it.
我是托宾·洛（Tobin Low），今天的节目“数学或魔法”讲述了人们通过相信宇宙中的某种神秘力量或只是实际对待它来寻找爱情的故事。
And as we were putting together this show, every time we talked about this theme, it riled up the staff.
当我们准备这个节目时，每次我们谈论这个主题，都会激怒工作人员。
People had a lot of big feelings about it.
人们对此有很多感触。
Turns out, lots of people here were trying to figure out this very thing in their own lives, which brings us to Act Two, "Crazy Stupid Love."
事实证明，这里的很多人都试图在自己的生活中弄清楚这一点，这让我们看到了第二幕“疯狂愚蠢的爱”。
So when you're talking about the magic camp of people, there's a group that emerges as maybe the most magic of magic.
所以当你谈论人们的魔法阵营时，有一个群体可能是魔法中最神奇的。
I'm talking about people who say that from the moment they saw their partner, they just knew, for sure, that this was their person.
我说的是那些说从他们看到自己的伴侣的那一刻起，他们就确定地知道这是他们的人。
One of our producers here, Aviva DeKornfeld, is skeptical about these claims, and also a little envious.
我们的一位制片人 Aviva DeKornfeld 对这些说法表示怀疑，同时也有点羡慕。
Here's Aviva.
这是英杰华。
I put out a call to see how many people out there had really felt this thing I assumed was reserved for rom-coms.
我打了个电话，看看有多少人真正感受到了这个我认为是浪漫喜剧保留的东西。
And let me tell you, there are a lot of you.
让我告诉你，你们有很多人。
I got over 700 responses.
我收到了超过 700 条回复。
It seems like all day, every day, people are out there running into their soulmate-- in airports, on buses, at bars.
似乎每一天，每一天，人们都在外面遇到他们的灵魂伴侣——在机场、公共汽车上、酒吧。
One person met their partner on the side of the road after they'd gotten a flat tire.
一个人轮胎漏气后在路边遇见了自己的伴侣。
Another couple met at band practice.
另一对夫妇是在乐队练习时认识的。
This one woman I talked to met her husband in the middle of the woods.
我采访过的一位女士在树林中央遇见了她的丈夫。
She accidentally wrote his phone number down wrong, and they still ended up together.
她不小心写错了他的电话号码，结果他们还是在一起了。
Liz met her person in her friend Ingrid's kitchen.
莉兹在她朋友英格丽德的厨房里遇见了她的人。
She was 17 at the time, and they were hanging out, chatting, when Ingrid's brother came downstairs with a guy Liz had never seen before.
当时她 17 岁，他们正在闲逛、聊天，这时英格丽德的哥哥带着一个莉兹以前从未见过的人下楼来。
I turned around, and he looked at me, and I looked at him.
我转过头，他看着我，我也看着他。
And we just went, oh my god.
我们就走了，天啊。
Like, both of us simultaneously just looked at each other, and boom, that's it, I've met the one.
就像，我们俩同时看着对方，然后，就这样，我遇到了那个人。
What?
什么？
Liz Yeah.
丽兹 是的。
And there was just this awkward, awesome silence.
然后就是一片尴尬而又令人敬畏的沉默。
Liz's mom was there when this all happened, talking to Ingrid's mom.
这一切发生时，莉兹的妈妈也在场，正在和英格丽德的妈妈说话。
And my mum turned to Ingrid's mom, and just said, oh my god, did you feel that?
我妈妈转向英格丽德的妈妈，只是说，天哪，你有感觉到吗？
And Kate, their mother, went, oh my god, yes.
他们的母亲凯特走了，天哪，是的。
That's electricity right there.
那就是电。
And, yeah, we just knew from that moment on, we're the ones for each other.
是的，从那一刻起我们就知道，我们是彼此的人。
How did you know that?
你怎么知道的？
Liz I don't know, it was just this feeling.
LZ我不知道，就是这种感觉。
We're still together today, and it's, what, 30-something years later.
今天我们仍然在一起，而且已经是 30 多年后的事了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Stories like Liz's drive me insane, because I love them.
像莉兹这样的故事让我发疯，因为我喜欢它们。
I get so swept up by the romance.
我被浪漫所吸引。
And yet, they couldn't be more foreign to me.
然而，它们对我来说再陌生不过了。
It's the certainty that Liz describes.
这就是莉兹所描述的确定性。
I don't understand it.
我不明白。
You know, I can feel it as if it was happening right now.
你知道，我能感觉到它就好像它正在发生一样。
It's just like a tightness in the chest, and like an adrenaline rush, like you've just seen a really big spider or something.
就像胸口发紧，肾上腺素激增，就像你刚刚看到一只很大的蜘蛛什么的。
How do you know-- I don't know, you're 17.
你怎么知道——我不知道，你才17岁。
How do you know it wasn't just hormones?
你怎么知道这不仅仅是激素？
I didn't.
我没有。
I didn't.
我没有。
Look, it very well could have been.
看，很可能是这样。
But at that time, it was so real.
但在那个时候，却是那么的真实。
It was just like being smacked over the head with a hammer, and like, that's the one.
就像被人用锤子敲头一样，就是这样。
I've never felt anything like that, no matter how wonderful the person I'm dating is, or how infatuated I feel.
我从未有过这样的感觉，无论我约会的人有多么出色，或者我感到多么着迷。
I've never been able to shake that gut feeling telling me, this is not forever.
我一直无法摆脱那种直觉告诉我，这不会是永远。
In fact, all of my relationships have ended in some way or another because of my lack of certainty.
事实上，由于我缺乏确定性，我所有的关系都以某种方式结束了。
Everyone in my life is exhausted by my endless romantic dithering.
我生命中的每个人都因我无休止的浪漫犹豫而疲惫不堪。
Days after my last breakup, my dad made a point to tell me that if I thought I would find someone better than my ex, I was mistaken.
在我上次分手几天后，我父亲特意告诉我，如果我认为我会找到比我的前任更好的人，那我就错了。
These people who get that lightning strike moment, with the big boom and flash of recognition-- they really feel like God's favorites, the lucky ones, somehow insulated from all the doubt plaguing the rest of us.
这些人在闪电般的时刻，伴随着巨大的轰动和一闪而过的认可——他们真的感觉自己是上帝的最爱，幸运的人，以某种方式摆脱了困扰我们其他人的所有怀疑。
Part of me, maybe the jealous part, is skeptical of stories like these.
我的一部分，也许是嫉妒的一部分，对这样的故事持怀疑态度。
Like, how could you possibly know in two seconds?
就像，你怎么可能在两秒钟内知道？
You don't know anything about the other person.
你对对方一无所知。
It seems more likely that you're retrofitting certainty onto the early part of the relationship from the comfort of your established one.
更有可能的是，你正在从已经建立的关系的舒适感中为这段关系的早期阶段注入确定性。
So many of the people who responded to my callout just seemed like they were imposing magic on all kinds of utterly ordinary meet-cutes.
很多对我的呼吁做出回应的人似乎都在对各种完全普通的可爱的人施加魔法。
But then, I talked to Meghan, who seemed a lot like me.
但后来，我和梅根聊了聊，她看起来很像我。
When she was in her late 20s, like I am, she was living in New York, like I do, and like me, feeling increasingly concerned she would never meet her life partner, and kept finding herself saying things like this.
当她二十多岁的时候，和我一样，住在纽约，和我一样，她越来越担心自己永远不会见到自己的人生伴侣，并不断发现自己在说这样的话。
Well, I'm going to be single forever.
好吧，我将永远单身。
Like, this sucks, and I hate it, and you know, I had just kind of resigned myself to, like, whatever, I'll just do my own thing.
就像，这很糟糕，我讨厌它，你知道，我只是有点听天由命，就像，无论如何，我会做我自己的事情。
And I didn't mind being alone.
我不介意独自一人。
And then, of course, she met someone.
然后，当然，她遇到了一个人。
One afternoon, while she was working as a waitress, a couple of guys walked in and sat at the bar.
一天下午，当她正在做服务员时，几个男人走进来坐在吧台旁。
She spotted them immediately.
她立刻就发现了他们。
Well, to be honest, I thought his friend was cuter.
嗯，说实话，我觉得他的朋友更可爱。
But the moment that we started talking to each other, there was no doubt.
但当我们开始交谈的那一刻，就毫无疑问了。
So I wouldn't say it was love at first sight, necessarily, but it was definitely love at first conversation.
所以我不会说这一定是一见钟情，但绝对是一见钟情。
Like, the minute he opened his mouth, and the minute that we started kind of bantering back and forth, I just knew that I was going to marry him.
就像，当他张开嘴的那一刻，当我们开始来回开玩笑的那一刻，我就知道我要嫁给他了。
I just knew it.
我刚刚知道。
And I almost started to panic, because you don't know if the other person feels the same way.
我几乎开始惊慌，因为你不知道对方是否也有同样的感觉。
This guy, Jeff, did feel the same way.
杰夫这个人确实有同样的感觉。
By the end of her shift, Meghan was certain Jeff was her person.
下班时，梅根确信杰夫就是她的人。
But she already had plans to go on a date with someone else that night.
但她已经计划好那天晚上要和别人约会了。
So she went out, and at the end of the night--
于是她出去了，到了晚上——
I took him back to my house and I slept with him, because I knew that that was the last person that I was going to sleep with before I married Jeff.
我带他回到我家，和他一起睡，因为我知道那是我和杰夫结婚之前我要睡的最后一个人。
What!
什么！
Really?
真的吗？
Meghan I did.
梅根，我做到了。
I was like, I'm going to fuck this guy.
我当时想，我要操这个家伙。
I know I'm never going to fuck anybody else again, because I'm going to marry that other guy that I just met.
我知道我再也不会和其他人上床了，因为我要嫁给我刚刚认识的另一个人。
You're like, this is my last oat to sow.
你会说，这是我播种的最后一颗燕麦。
This is my last oat to sow.
这是我播种的最后一片燕麦。
This is my last one-night stand that I'm ever going to have, and I'm going to go for it.
这是我最后一次一夜情，我会全力以赴。
Meghan got a call from Jeff the next morning while she was still lying in bed with her oat.
第二天早上，梅根还躺在床上吃燕麦，就接到了杰夫的电话。
He asked her out.
他约她出去。
And a few days later, they went on their first date at a rodeo.
几天后，他们在牛仔竞技表演中进行了第一次约会。
And that night, when we were at the rodeo, he leaned over and was like, you know I love you.
那天晚上，当我们在牛仔竞技表演时，他靠过来说，你知道我爱你。
And I was like, yeah, I know.
我当时想，是的，我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I love you, too.
我也爱你。
You're saying it sort of like, matter of fact.
你说的有点像，事实上。
Like, obviously, we love each other.
显然，我们彼此相爱。
Is that what it felt like?
是这样的感觉吗？
Yeah, it was like yeah, no shit.
是的，就像是的，没什么。
Like, duh, you know?
就像，呃，你知道吗？
I mean, it was truly obvious from the end of the first day that we met.
我的意思是，从我们见面的第一天开始，这一点就非常明显了。
That is so crazy to me.
这对我来说太疯狂了。
Meghan Oh, yeah, 100%.
梅根哦，是的，100%。
Had you ever felt that certainty before?
你以前有过这种确定感吗？
Never, ever.
从来没有，从来没有。
No, never.
不，从来没有。
Aviva DeKornfeld Meghan sounds so certain, which makes me wonder if perhaps some people are just wired for certainty and I'm not one of them.
Aviva DeKornfeld Meghan 听起来如此确定，这让我想知道是否有些人只是渴望确定而我不是其中之一。
Hearing these stories feels like window-shopping for love at a store that's closed.
听到这些故事感觉就像在一家关门的商店里逛街寻找爱情。
I can see all these beautiful things, can imagine what it might be like to wear them, or how life might be different if I owned them, but can't actually try anything on.
我可以看到所有这些美丽的东西，可以想象穿上它们会是什么样子，或者如果我拥有它们，生活会有何不同，但实际上无法尝试任何东西。
Jeff and I are not still together.
杰夫和我还没在一起。
We actually just recently were legally separated.
事实上我们最近才合法分居。
The best way I can describe it is that I met Jeff day drinking in a bar on a Tuesday at, like, 3:00 PM.
我能描述的最好的方式是，我在周二下午 3:00 左右在一家酒吧遇到了杰夫·戴 (Jeff Day)。
He's a big drinker, and he has some problems with addiction.
他是个酒鬼，并且有一些酒瘾问题。
And I wasn't able to weather that storm with him after trying for many years-- rehab, and we have kids, and I just couldn't do it anymore.
经过多年的努力，我没能和他一起度过这场风暴——康复，而且我们还有孩子，我再也无法这么做了。
Honestly, that's sort of the heartbreaking thing about it, is that I thought we'd be together forever.
老实说，这有点令人心碎，我以为我们会永远在一起。
We both did.
我们都这么做了。
Does breaking up with Jeff shake your sense of certainty that you'd had all those years ago?
与杰夫分手是否会动摇你多年前所拥有的确定感？
No, not at all.
不，一点也不。
Aviva DeKornfeld Really?
艾维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 真的吗？
Not in the least.
一点也不。
Aviva DeKornfeld It doesn't make you feel like you were wrong, like you misread something?
Aviva DeKornfeld 它不会让你觉得自己错了，就像你误读了什么？
No. No, not at all.
不，不，一点也不。
Aviva DeKornfeld I find Meghan convincing.
Aviva DeKornfeld 我觉得梅根很有说服力。
Because even after all that, she's still certain about the connection they had.
因为即使经历了这一切，她仍然确定他们之间的联系。
It was real.
这是真的。
I'd been thinking of certainty as a kind of guarantee.
我一直认为确定性是一种保证。
If you had it, everything else would fall into place.
如果你拥有它，其他一切都会水到渠成。
But there is no guarantee.
但没有任何保证。
I get that certainty doesn't always hit you over the head like a hammer.
我知道确定性并不总是像锤子一样击中你的头。
It can take time.
这可能需要时间。
But however you get there, it still seems worth trying to find.
但无论你到达那里，它似乎仍然值得尝试寻找。
Because how lovely to get a break, however brief, from wondering, is this right?
因为从疑惑中得到休息是多么美好，无论多么短暂，这是对的吗？
I'd like to feel that.
我想感受一下。
Aviva DeKornfeld is one of the producers on our show.
Aviva DeKornfeld 是我们节目的制片人之一。
Act Three, "He's All That." So I want to introduce you to someone, a kid named Cal.
第三幕，“他就是这样。”所以我想向你介绍一个人，一个名叫卡尔的孩子。
And there's a couple of things Cal really wants you to know about him.
卡尔确实希望您了解一些关于他的事情。
I'm 11 years old.
我今年11岁了。
I live in New York City.
我住在纽约市。
I live with my parents and my cat.
我和我的父母以及我的猫住在一起。
I love cats.
我喜欢猫。
I have a lot of follow up questions.
我有很多后续问题。
OK, first of all, what is your cat's name?
好的，首先，你的猫叫什么名字？
Spider.
蜘蛛。
He has a white spot on his chest-- actually, one on his chest, and one near his butt.
他的胸口有一个白点——实际上，一个在胸口，一个靠近屁股。
The things I want you to know about Cal-- he's charmingly straightforward, both serious and unserious.
我想让你了解卡尔的一些事情——他非常直率，既严肃又不严肃。
And also--
还有——
I also hear that you have your first boyfriend.
我还听说你有第一个男朋友了。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Yes.
是的。
Tobin Low First love-- I think if you're looking for a champion of magic, this is the primordial ooze that magic crawls out of.
托宾·洛《初恋》——我想如果你正在寻找魔法冠军，这就是魔法从中爬出的原始软泥。
There's no feeling like that first time you like someone and they like you back.
第一次喜欢一个人，而他们也喜欢你，这种感觉是不一样的。
It can feel like a little miracle.
这感觉就像一个小奇迹。
Now, Cal's only 11, so having a boyfriend really just means hanging out at school, texting a bunch.
现在，卡尔只有 11 岁，所以有男朋友实际上只意味着在学校闲逛，发短信。
They first met at their school's Gender Sexuality Alliance Club.
他们第一次见面是在学校的性别联盟俱乐部。
He was really nice.
他真的很好。
He helped me settle in, and I really liked him.
他帮助我安顿下来，我真的很喜欢他。
I began to have feelings for him.
我开始对他产生感情了。
Around Thanksgiving, I texted him and told him I liked him.
感恩节前后，我给他发短信告诉他我喜欢他。
The next day, he texted back and told me he knew it, and that he liked me, too.
第二天，他回短信告诉我他知道了，而且他也喜欢我。
He then asked if I wanted to be his boyfriend.
然后他问我愿不愿意做他的男朋友。
I said, hell yes.
我说，是的。
What do you like about him?
你喜欢他什么？
Cal He's hilarious.
卡尔赫很搞笑。
He comes up with the best jokes and the best ideas, and he makes me laugh.
他想出最好的笑话和最好的想法，他让我开怀大笑。
I should also mention they're coworkers.
我还应该提到他们是同事。
We're also on the school's paper together.
我们还一起上了学校的报纸。
Cal's boyfriend-- he's his editor.
卡尔的男朋友——他是他的编辑。
I didn't have the heart to tell him that this was maybe not healthy.
我不忍心告诉他这可能不健康。
But it seemed to be working out for them.
但这似乎对他们来说很有效。
He's my editor, in the Just For Fun column.
他是我的编辑，在“只是为了好玩”专栏中。
I make a series of comics about Spider, called "Spider Cat Comics." The first one came out in the first paper two weeks ago, and I think it was pretty good.
我制作了一系列有关蜘蛛的漫画，名为“蜘蛛猫漫画”。第一篇在两周前的第一篇论文中就出来了，我觉得还不错。
Given that he's your editor, does that mean that he gives you critiques or notes on the things that you make?
鉴于他是您的编辑，这是否意味着他会对您所做的事情提出批评或注释？
He does.
他做到了。
Tobin Low And what kinds of notes does he give you back on your comics?
Tobin Low 他在你的漫画中给了你什么样的注释？
He likes them.
他喜欢它们。
He says they're pretty creative and cool.
他说他们很有创意而且很酷。
That's very supportive.
这非常支持。
Cal It is.
卡尔 是的。
I'm really glad I have him.
我真的很高兴我有他。
I can tell Cal is riding a high.
我看得出来卡尔正兴高采烈。
He's close to that pure magic that happens at the start of a relationship.
他很接近恋爱关系开始时发生的那种纯粹的魔力。
It's that place where you feel like you've got it all figured out.
正是在这个地方，你感觉自己已经明白了一切。
I asked him if he had any advice for other people about how to get there.
我问他对于如何到达那里是否有什么建议可以给其他人。
Tell them you like them.
告诉他们你喜欢他们。
See what they say.
看看他们怎么说。
If they don't like you back, it may be hard for you.
如果他们不喜欢你，你可能会很难受。
But at least you took a chance.
但至少你抓住了机会。
And with taking a chance, it helps.
抓住机会会有帮助。
It really helps.
这确实有帮助。
Believe me.
相信我。
I've been through that before.
我以前也经历过这样的事。
I took the chance, and believe me, not everyone gets it on the first time.
我抓住了这个机会，相信我，并不是每个人第一次都能得到它。
Most people don't get it on the first time.
大多数人第一次都不会明白。
But it sounds like you're asking people to be brave.
但听起来你是在要求人们勇敢。
Yep.
是的。
Tobin Low I originally wanted to talk to Cal, because he was experiencing love for the first time.
Tobin Low 我本来想和 Cal 谈谈，因为他第一次经历爱情。
But then, a couple of weeks after we talked, I got word that something had changed.
但后来，在我们交谈几周后，我得知有些事情发生了变化。
Cal's boyfriend broke up with him.
卡尔的男朋友和他分手了。
He just said, flat-out, over text, I'm breaking up with you.
他只是通过短信直截了当地说，我要和你分手。
And I said, what?
我说，什么？
Why?
为什么？
And he explained he wasn't really feeling it with me, and that it wasn't going to work out.
他解释说他对我并没有真正的感觉，而且这不会成功。
And then, he stopped texting me, and then I yelled at him.
然后他就不再给我发短信了，然后我就对他大喊大叫。
Just to clarify, he called him a son of a bitch.
为了澄清，他称他为王八蛋。
And then, I blocked him.
然后我就屏蔽了他。
Tobin Low Oh, wow.
托宾·洛 哦，哇。
So it was not a good breakup then.
所以当时的分手并不好。
Yeah, it was not friendly.
是的，这并不友好。
I wanted to just be friends after that, but it seems he doesn't even want to remember I exist.
在那之后我只想做朋友，但似乎他甚至不想记住我的存在。
Before this, I actually pictured a bit of a-- a sort of future with him.
在此之前，我实际上已经想象过和他在一起的某种未来。
But I'm guessing he didn't feel the same.
但我猜他没有同样的感觉。
Talking to Cal now, he's a changed person.
现在和卡尔交谈，他变了一个人。
All that boldness, how much he trusted his heart-- he's not as sure now.
所有的勇气，他有多么相信自己的心——他现在不太确定了。
Your heart can lead you to someone who you supposedly like, who's funny and cute, but they're not always the best person for you.
你的心可以引导你找到一个你认为喜欢的人，他们有趣又可爱，但他们并不总是最适合你的人。
I don't know what to do.
我不知道该怎么办。
I don't want to lose-- I don't want to be plunged into darkness and shut down forever.
我不想失去——我不想陷入黑暗并永远被封闭。
Why does the world have to be like this?
为什么世界一定要这样？
I wish I had the answer, Cal.
我希望我能得到答案，卡尔。
I don't know why it has to be this way, but I also know it won't be like this forever.
我不知道为什么会这样，但我也知道不会永远这样。
Cal says, he wants to take a break, not try to find a new boyfriend for a while.
卡尔说，他想休息一下，暂时不想找新男朋友。
And he's going to take a different approach the next time around.
下次他将采取不同的方法。
He says, before he gets back out there, he wants to do some research.
他说，在他回到那里之前，他想做一些研究。
He wants to google articles that will tell him more about how to date, how to meet people.
他想在谷歌上搜索一些文章，告诉他更多关于如何约会、如何结识朋友的信息。
He's got a plan which, to me, sounds like a magic person moving the needle ever so slightly over to math.
他有一个计划，对我来说，听起来就像一个神奇的人将指针稍微移动到数学上。
Do you think that if you had to choose one, trusting your head or your heart, which one would you choose, do you think?
你认为如果你必须选择一个，相信你的头脑或你的心，你会选择哪一个？
I would choose head.
我会选择头。
Head always has the best instincts.
头脑总是有最好的直觉。
Your heart just leads you, as I said, through rose-colored glasses.
正如我所说，你的心只会带着玫瑰色的眼镜引导你。
Your head tells you more practical.
你的头脑告诉你更实用。
Cal's shift in this moment-- it makes sense to me.
卡尔此刻的转变——对我来说是有道理的。
The times I've been dumped, the last thing I wanted was for someone to tell me to lean into my feelings more.
当我被抛弃的时候，我最不想做的就是有人告诉我要更多地关注自己的感受。
Because, like Cal, I didn't trust my heart.
因为，像卡尔一样，我不相信自己的心。
I wanted someone to tell me that there were hard facts to finding love, a process that could be enacted that didn't rely on my dumb feelings.
我希望有人告诉我，寻找爱情是有确凿事实的，这个过程可以不依赖于我愚蠢的感觉而实施。
That's the thing about the two camps.
这就是两个阵营的事情。
The allure of each is that they offer a path.
每个的吸引力在于它们提供了一条道路。
And depending on where you are, each one may call to you at a different time.
根据您所在的位置，每个人可能会在不同的时间给您打电话。
But Cal says he's not all the way gone.
但卡尔说他还没有完全消失。
He's still making room for his heart whenever it's ready to try again.
每当他准备好再次尝试时，他仍然会为自己的心脏腾出空间。
As I said, if you didn't have it, you wouldn't find love.
正如我所说，如果你没有它，你就找不到爱。
Also, it's really weird that heart is represented as love, because it's an organ.
另外，心脏被代表为爱，这真的很奇怪，因为它是一个器官。
Also, the heart shape isn't even what it looks like.
而且，心形甚至不是它看起来的样子。
It looks more like this blobby, melty, oval thing.
它看起来更像是这个有斑点的、融化的、椭圆形的东西。
I agree, Cal.
我同意，卡尔。
Sometimes none of this stuff makes any sense at all.
有时这些东西根本没有任何意义。
Act Four, "How to Leave a Guy in 10 Days." So far, we've talked a lot about how there can be magic at the beginning of a relationship.
第四幕，“如何在 10 天内离开一个男人”。到目前为止，我们已经讨论了很多关于如何在一段关系的开始时创造奇迹的话题。
But there's another place that magic can pop up, and it's a place you might never think to look for it.
但还有另一个地方可以突然出现魔法，而你可能永远不会想到去寻找它。
Our next story is about someone who's come to believe that you can find magic, know true joy, in a breakup.
我们的下一个故事是关于一个人，他开始相信你可以在分手中找到魔力，知道真正的快乐。
Here's producer Diane Wu to explain.
下面请制片人吴黛安为您解说。
I was once in a 10-year relationship where the question of is this what I really want started to creep in around year four.
我曾经有过一段长达十年的恋爱关系，从第四年左右开始，我开始怀疑自己到底想要什么。
And so for six years, this was the big unmagical and uncalculatable question of my life.
就这样，六年来，这一直是我一生中一个既不神奇又无法计算的大问题。
When do you stay, and when do you go?
你什么时候留下，什么时候走？
Eventually, I ended it.
最终，我结束了它。
And since then, I've been extra wary of being in the wrong relationship again.
从那时起，我就格外警惕再次陷入错误的关系。
And maybe as a way to stay sharp, alert, I like hearing about how other people deal with this kind of decision.
也许作为保持敏锐、警觉的一种方式，我喜欢听听其他人如何处理这种决定。
The writer Marie Phillips has a very specific approach to this question.
作家玛丽·菲利普斯对这个问题有一个非常具体的方法。
Think about it like you're at the movies.
想象一下，就像你在看电影一样。
I have never regretted walking out of a movie.
我从不后悔从电影中走出来。
I have, many times, regretted not walking out of a movie.
很多次，我都后悔没有走出电影院。
Not finishing things is one of the great joys of life.
不完成事情是人生的一大乐趣。
I've never walked out of a film, so I don't know the feeling.
我从来没有走出过电影，所以我不知道那种感觉。
No, I feel like I signed up for this, and--
不，我觉得我已经报名参加了这个，而且——
[LAUGHTER] --maybe something good will happen, still.
[笑声]——也许仍然会有好事发生。
Have you ever got to the end of the film and thought, I wish I hadn't wasted 2 and 1/2 hours of my life on that?
你是否曾在电影结束时想，我希望我没有在这上面浪费 2又 1/2 个小时？
Yes, for sure.
是的，当然。
Marie Phillips On the whole--
玛丽·菲利普斯 总的来说——
But it literally has never occurred to me that I could have left.
但我从来没有想过我可以离开。
If the first half-hour is terrible, it's so unlikely to get good.
如果前半个小时很糟糕，那么就不太可能好起来。
And that is the point at which you can just get up and go.
到那时你就可以起身离开了。
And you never wonder more about what happened or how they brought it home or any of that?
你再也不会想知道发生了什么或者他们如何把它带回家等等？
No, no. Diane Wu Marie became this cheerful leaver of relationships fairly recently.
不，不。黛安·吴玛丽（Diane Wu Marie）最近成为了一位开朗的分手者。
She discovered the joy of walking out of things, actually, on a first date.
事实上，她在第一次约会时就发现了走出困境的乐趣。
He was a film director and asked her to see a movie, a 3D movie, by Jean-Luc Godard.
他是一位电影导演，请她看一部电影，一部让-吕克·戈达尔的 3D 电影。
It wasn't just normal 3D, like when you see on a Marvel movie.
这不仅仅是普通的 3D，就像你在漫威电影中看到的那样。
He was doing things like, your left eye would be still watching one image, and then he would turn the image on your right eye, so your right eye would suddenly be seeing something completely different.
他正在做这样的事情，你的左眼仍然在观看一张图像，然后他会将图像转到你的右眼上，所以你的右眼会突然看到完全不同的东西。
Whoa.
哇哦。
I feel like my stomach is turning just thinking about it.
我一想到这个就觉得胃在翻腾。
Yeah, so it's nausea-inducing just to hear the idea, but can you imagine-- so I'm sitting in there, and I'm like, I feel sick within minutes.
是的，光是听到这个想法就让人恶心，但你能想象吗——所以我坐在那里，几分钟之内我就感到恶心。
Really fast I thought, I feel sick, and I don't want to be in here.
我很快就想，我感觉不舒服，我不想呆在这里。
So I just said to him, I'm going to leave now.
所以我就对他说，我现在要走了。
It was exciting.
这很令人兴奋。
Marie felt cool and powerful.
玛丽感到凉爽而有力。
He stayed.
他留下来了。
She went and got a glass of wine at the bar.
她去酒吧喝了一杯酒。
It ended up being a great date.
这是一次很棒的约会。
After the film, on the ferry home, they had their first kiss.
电影结束后，在回家的渡轮上，他们有了初吻。
Two weeks later, the director told her that he loved her.
两周后，导演告诉她，他爱她。
It was the first time any boyfriend had ever told her that.
这是第一次有男朋友对她这么说。
Six months later, they were living together.
六个月后，他们同居了。
We had a great time.
我们玩得很开心。
He's extremely funny.
他非常有趣。
He's very charming.
他非常有魅力。
He was a really delightful person.
他是一个非常令人愉快的人。
He was just a joy to be around.
和他在一起真是一种快乐。
When he would come home, I'd feel like a puppy that had been left.
当他回家时，我感觉自己像一只被遗弃的小狗。
You know, I'd be bouncing with excitement to see him.
你知道，见到他我会兴奋得跳起来。
He got on well with my family.
他和我的家人相处得很好。
My friends liked him.
我的朋友们喜欢他。
We got on really, really well.
我们相处得非常非常好。
And leaving movies midway-- it became their thing, together.
中途离开电影——这成了他们在一起的事情。
They would do it all the time.
他们会一直这样做。
I'm telling you all of this because a few years in, things got rough, and Marie had to decide whether or not to walk out of the relationship.
我告诉你这一切是因为几年后，事情变得艰难，玛丽必须决定是否退出这段关系。
What happened was, the director said he wanted to have an open relationship.
事情是这样的，导演说他想建立一种开放的关系。
Marie was game to try it out.
玛丽很想尝试一下。
She loved him.
她爱他。
She thought maybe she'd change and it would start to feel OK, or maybe he'd change.
她想也许她会改变，感觉会开始好起来，或者也许他会改变。
But nobody changed.
但没有人改变。
She lived for a year in indecision, going back and forth, trying to make it work.
她犹豫不决地生活了一年，来来回回，试图让它发挥作用。
I've been there.
我去过那里。
I don't recommend it.
我不推荐它。
My indecision looked like finding myself reading the same advice column over and over, recognizing the advice was for me but never following it.
我的优柔寡断看起来就像发现自己一遍又一遍地阅读同一个建议专栏，认识到这些建议适合我，但从未遵循它。
I could never tell if it was me or the situation that needed to change.
我永远无法判断是我需要改变还是情况需要改变。
In Marie's case, all that back-and-forth ended in one moment when it all became clear to her.
就玛丽的情况而言，所有的来来回回都在她明白一切的那一刻结束了。
She realized she didn't like the movie anymore, and that it wasn't going to pick up in the second half.
她意识到她不再喜欢这部电影了，而且电影后半段也不会好转。
It was during a conversation in their apartment.
那是在他们的公寓里谈话时发生的。
And I remember, at the time, feeling this extremely physical need to be as far away from him as I could possibly get.
我记得，当时，我感到身体上极度需要尽可能远离他。
In that moment, I felt the opposite of love.
那一刻，我感受到了爱的反面。
Because in a way, love, for me, is the feeling that I want to be close.
因为从某种意义上来说，爱对于我来说，就是一种想要亲近的感觉。
And then, the opposite feeling of that is like, I just-- I need to get out of here.
然后，相反的感觉就像是，我只是——我需要离开这里。
I need to be as far away from this person as I could possibly get.
我需要尽可能远离这个人。
Marie walked out of their apartment and kept walking in one direction until she couldn't go any farther.
玛丽走出公寓，一直朝一个方向走，直到再也走不动为止。
A few days later, she officially ended the relationship.
几天后，她正式结束了这段关系。
I mean, that sounds like a terrible experience, but also it's like-- but it's also so rare that moments are so clarifying, that you're, like-- you don't even have to think.
我的意思是，这听起来像是一次可怕的经历，但它也很罕见，以至于那些时刻如此清晰，你甚至不需要思考。
It's not even a decision, right?
这甚至不是一个决定，对吧？
You just go.
你就走吧。
You have to go.
你必须走了。
There isn't an alternative, whereas I think most of life is somewhere in the mushy middle.
没有其他选择，但我认为生活的大部分时间都处于中间。
I mean, yeah, it's true.
我的意思是，是的，这是真的。
It's very rare that you're going to be 100% miserable.
你很少会感到 100% 痛苦。
But when you're 60% miserable, that's still too miserable.
但当你有60%的痛苦时，那还是太痛苦了。
That's more than half.
这已经超过一半了。
It's not like I have a spreadsheet on this, by the way.
顺便说一句，我并没有这方面的电子表格。
But that feeling where most of the time you're feeling terrible-- that's not a way to live.
但大多数时候你感觉很糟糕——这不是一种生活方式。
You know what is a way to live?
你知道什么是生活方式吗？
Think about it like you're at the movies.
想象一下，就像你在看电影一样。
You know how when you go to see a film, and you walk in and it's daylight, and then you come out and it's dark?
你知道当你去看电影时，你走进去时天是白天，然后你出来时天就黑了？
Yeah, I hate that.
是的，我讨厌那样。
Marie Phillips When I picture walking out of a film, when I visualize walking out of a film in my mind, I am always walking out into the sunlight.
玛丽·菲利普斯 当我想象走出电影时，当我在脑海中想象走出电影时，我总是走到阳光下。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Marie Phillips [LAUGHS] I'm never walking out into the dark, in the rain.
玛丽·菲利普斯（笑）我从来不会在雨中走进黑暗。
I'm always just stepping out into the sunshine.
我总是走到阳光下。
When I see unhappy couples, I'm just like, oh my god, you're both keeping someone else from the joy of being-- someone who could love you is on their own right now.
当我看到不幸福的夫妻时，我就想，天哪，你们都让别人无法享受存在的快乐——一个可以爱你的人现在只能靠自己了。
Right.
正确的。
Marie Phillips If you broke up, someone that loves you could be with you, and someone who loves your husband or your wife could be with them.
玛丽·菲利普斯：如果你们分手了，爱你的人可能会和你在一起，爱你的丈夫或妻子的人可能会和他们在一起。
And just think how much happier all of you would be.
想想你们大家会多么幸福。
And instead, there's some poor single person on Hinge, desperately looking through the profiles, who'd be perfect for you.
相反，Hinge 上有一些可怜的单身人士，拼命地浏览个人资料，他对你来说是完美的。
And you're not on Hinge, because you're too busy fighting with your wife.
而你不在铰链上，因为你太忙于和你的妻子吵架了。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Marie Phillips Yeah.
玛丽·菲利普斯 是的。
I mean, god, I'm just-- I'm like, everybody break up!
我的意思是，天啊，我只是——我想，大家分手吧！
Diane Wu is one of the producers on our show.
吴黛安是我们节目的制片人之一。
Before we end our show, I think it's only fair that I answer which camp I believe in-- math or magic.
在我们结束节目之前，我认为回答我相信哪个阵营是公平的——数学还是魔法。
In truth, after dating around for most of my 20s, I got tired of both.
事实上，在我 20 多岁的大部分时间里约会之后，我对两者都感到厌倦了。
Magic steered me wrong, and going out on dates just to go on dates also felt exhausting.
魔法把我引向了错误，而为了约会而出去约会也让人感到筋疲力尽。
So I made up my own theory about what to do.
所以我就该怎么做制定了自己的理论。
It was kind of mathy.
这有点数学。
Actually, it was a little like what Zarna did, though nowhere near as specific.
事实上，这有点像扎尔纳所做的，尽管远没有那么具体。
I made myself a list of 10 qualities I wanted in a partner, and it was pretty simple.
我给自己列了一份清单，列出了我希望伴侣具备的 10 项品质，这非常简单。
It said things like, I want him to be kind.
它说的是，我希望他友善。
I want him to appreciate the arts.
我希望他能够欣赏艺术。
I was a cellist at the time.
当时我是一名大提琴手。
I want him to be the kind of person I'd want to call when something funny happens.
我希望他成为那种当发生有趣的事情时我想打电话给他的人。
And I made a rule for myself that if I was dating a guy that I liked, if I started to get freaked out about whether or not it felt magical enough, I had to pull out the list.
我给自己定了一条规则，如果我正在和一个我喜欢的人约会，如果我开始对它是否足够神奇而感到害怕，我就必须拿出清单。
And if it was true that he had a majority of the things that I put on my list, I would keep giving it a shot.
如果他确实拥有我列在清单上的大部分内容，我会继续尝试。
Eventually, I met a public school teacher who did art on the side.
最终，我遇到了一位兼职做艺术的公立学校老师。
We laughed over pizza, talked about The Great British Baking Show, which had just debuted in the States.
我们边吃披萨边笑，谈论刚刚在美国首演的英国烘焙秀。
We went on another date, and then another.
我们又约会了一次，然后又约会了一次。
And any time I left a date and thought, wow, that was fun and easy but was it fun and easy enough, I'd return to the list.
每当我离开约会并想，哇，这很有趣而且很容易，但它足够有趣和容易吗，我就会回到这个列表。
Ah, yes.
啊，是的。
I still have found someone with a majority of the qualities I want, that really likes me, too.
我仍然找到了一个拥有我想要的大部分品质、也真正喜欢我的人。
I stopped referring to the list after a while.
一段时间后我不再提及这份清单。
And then one day, sitting on the couch, something happened.
然后有一天，坐在沙发上，发生了一件事情。
Remember that app that went around a couple of years ago that took a picture of your face and showed you what you look like much older, added wrinkles, and gray hair?
还记得几年前流行的一款应用程序，它可以拍摄你的脸部照片，并向你展示你看起来老了很多、皱纹增多、头发花白的样子吗？
One day, my partner did it.
有一天，我的伙伴做到了。
On screen appeared an image of him in his 80s-- with jowls and exaggerated laugh lines, wispy eyebrows.
屏幕上出现了他 80 多岁的形象——双下巴、夸张的笑纹、纤细的眉毛。
And a feeling crept up that I didn't expect.
一种我没有预料到的感觉悄然升起。
It surprised me.
这让我很惊讶。
The instant I saw his face there, I thought, I'd like to be around to see that.
当我看到他的脸的那一刻，我想，我想在附近看看。
I have no illusions about having cracked some code.
我对破解一些代码不抱任何幻想。
But I do think if you find someone and it lasts in a way that makes you happy, no matter how you get there, it's its own kind of magic.
但我确实认为，如果你找到了一个人，并且它以一种让你快乐的方式持续下去，无论你如何到达那里，这都是它自己的魔力。
Coda: Coda Tobin Low Today's show was produced by Aviva DeKornfeld.
Coda：Coda Tobin Low 今天的节目由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作。
People who put together today's show include Elna Baker, Chris Benderev, Phia Bennin, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Valerie Kipnis, Seth Lind, Katherine Rae Mondo, Alaa Mostafa, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Lilly Sullivan, Nancy Updike, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker.
今天节目的制作人包括 Elna Baker、Chris Benderev、Phia Bennin、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Valerie Kipnis、Seth Lind、Katherine Rae Mondo、Alaa Mostafa、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Frances Swanson、Christopher Swetala、Lilly Sullivan、Nancy Updike、Matt Tierney 和 Julie惠特克.
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks to Ovi Aragon, Burt Harvey, and the Utah County Passport and Marriage License Office, Alex Fulton, Dave Rizzo, Kim Adams, Marcie Schneider, Sarah Davis, Sabrina Hyman, Sarah King, Emily Ogle, Sara Collins, Francesca Street, Cheryl Hiltzik, Jacob Ritter, and Lori Gottlieb.
特别感谢 Ovi Aragon、Burt Harvey 以及犹他州护照和婚姻许可证办公室、Alex Fulton、Dave Rizzo、Kim Adams、Marcie Schneider、Sarah Davis、Sabrina Hyman、Sarah King、Emily Ogle、Sara Collins、Francesca Street、Cheryl Hiltzik、Jacob Ritter 和 Lori Gottlieb。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free-- also, there's all kinds of other stuff-- lists of favorite shows, videos, tons of other things there.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地播放我们的 750 多集档案，而且还有各种其他内容 - 最喜欢的节目列表、视频以及大量其他内容。
Again-- thisamericanlife.org.
再次——thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks to my boss, Ira Glass.
感谢我的老板艾拉·格拉斯。
Why is he out this week?
他这周为什么缺席？
Well, the other day when he and Torey Malatia were working their side job, they were like, wait, do you cut the red wire or the white wire?
好吧，有一天，当他和托里·马拉蒂亚（Torey Malatia）做副业时，他们问，等等，你是剪红线还是白线？
Like, both of us simultaneously just looked at each other, and boom.
就像，我们俩同时看着对方，然后轰隆隆地响。
I'm Tobin Low.
我是托宾·洛。
Join us next week with more stories from This American Life.
下周请加入我们，了解《美国生活》的更多故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。