789: The Runaround - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #789 | January 20, 2023 789: The Runaround Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 789 集 | 2023 年 1 月 20 日 789：回避 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Why aren't you more mad?
你为什么不更生气呢？
Sean Cole I think I'm just too tired to be mad.
肖恩·科尔 我想我只是太累了，无法生气。
It's like, when I think of it, I get exhausted.
就好像，一想到这件事，我就觉得很累。
I get a little desperate.
我有点绝望了。
I feel like a little bit like-- I feel a little bit, like, underwater.
我感觉有点像——我感觉有点像在水下。
This is my coworker, Sean Cole, who's a producer here on the radio show.
这是我的同事肖恩·科尔，他是广播节目的制作人。
And the thing that brought him to this state is a bed-- a bed he does not have.
而让他陷入这种境地的是一张床——一张他没有的床。
He ordered it back in September when he moved to a new apartment.
9 月份，当他搬到新公寓时，他又订购了这件衣服。
And this is where I've been sleeping since I moved in-- on the floor, on my old mattress, awaiting my new bed.
这就是我搬进来以来一直睡的地方——地板上，旧床垫上，等待我的新床。
Just to be clear, the mattress for the new bed arrived right away after he ordered it.
需要说明的是，新床的床垫在他订购后立即就到了。
It's rolled up like a burrito near the window.
它像墨西哥卷饼一样卷在窗户旁边。
The issue is the bed frame and the headboard.
问题在于床架和床头板。
They're still AWOL, undelivered, absent, four months after ordering.
订购四个月后，它们仍然擅离职守、未交付、缺席。
And I'm talking to Sean about this because today's program is about all kinds of different sorts of runarounds, and he is in the middle of a sort of classic one, one lots of us have experienced.
我和肖恩谈论这个是因为今天的节目是关于各种不同类型的逃避，而他正处于一种经典的逃避之中，我们很多人都经历过。
For the record, the bed that he ordered is a queen-sized bed from the Casper online store.
根据记录，他订购的床是 Casper 在线商店的大号床。
As a podcast producer, he told me he felt like a living cliche ordering a product that is advertised on so many podcasts, but he says he really liked the bed.
作为一名播客制作人，他告诉我，订购在如此多的播客上做广告的产品感觉就像是一种生活陈词滥调，但他说他真的很喜欢这张床。
It's got an angled, cushioned headboard to lean against when you're reading at night.
它有一个有角度的带软垫的床头板，当你晚上读书时可以靠在上面。
Sean is somebody who's never really fixed up a place with nice furniture, and he was finally getting around to it, and he was excited.
肖恩从来没有真正用漂亮的家具装修过一个地方，而他终于有时间去做这件事了，他很兴奋。
And at first, the delay was a completely excusable kind of thing.
起初，延迟是完全可以原谅的。
The bed was backordered, which, you know, happens with furniture.
床被缺货了，你知道，家具也会发生这种情况。
It was supposed to be ready for delivery on November 18.
原定于11月18日准备交付。
But the 18th of November comes, 18th of November goes, it does not show up.
但是11月18号来了，11月18号走了，它没有出现。
Sean reaches out to Casper.
肖恩向卡斯帕伸出手。
They said, you'll hear from our delivery partner.
他们说，您会收到我们的送货合作伙伴的来信。
OK, get a text from the delivery partner.
好的，从送货合作伙伴处获取短信。
It was a company I had never heard of, called RXO.
这是一家我从未听说过的公司，叫RXO。
RXO texts me and says, hi, we have scheduled your delivery for September 26.
RXO 给我发短信说：嗨，我们已安排您在 9 月 26 日交货。
And I'm like, it hasn't been September 26 for, like, two months.
我想，距离 9 月 26 日已经有两个月了。
Sean calls RXO and reschedules the delivery, this time for a date that's in the future, not the past.
Sean 致电 RXO 并重新安排交货时间，这次是在未来的日期，而不是过去的日期。
But this is the first of what will be many texts and communications from RXO that make no sense at all.
但这只是 RXO 发出的许多毫无意义的短信和通信中的第一个。
The new delivery date is in three weeks.
新的交货日期是三周后。
That day finally arrives.
那一天终于到来了。
I get up, strip the mattress, pull it off of the floor, set it up so it'll make it easier for them to take away.
我站起来，把床垫脱下来，从地板上拉下来，把它放好，这样他们就可以更容易地拿走。
It was leaning against the wall in the office, against my books.
它靠在办公室的墙上，靠着我的书。
I wait for them to come.
我等他们来。
Around 10:00, he gets a text telling him his bed will not be delivered.
10:00 左右，他收到一条短信，告知他的床铺无法送达。
He needs to reschedule.
他需要重新安排。
He calls to find out why.
他打电话询问原因。
And they said, oh, yeah.
他们说，哦，是的。
No, we can't bring it to you because you asked for the haul away service to take away your old mattress.
不，我们无法将其带给您，因为您要求拖运服务来运走您的旧床垫。
But couldn't this truck still drop off your thing, even if they weren't going to haul away the old mattress?
但是，即使他们不打算运走旧床垫，这辆卡车难道还能放下你的东西吗？
Right.
正确的。
Yeah.
是的。
Good question.
好问题。
Like, why does not being able to take something away prevent you from bringing me something?
比如，为什么不能拿走一些东西就不能阻止你给我带来一些东西？
The delivery is rescheduled for Monday, a few days later.
交货时间被重新安排在几天后的星期一。
Monday comes.
星期一来了。
They text, saying it's going to be Tuesday.
他们发短信说今天是星期二。
No explanation why.
没有解释为什么。
An hour and a half after that, they text again, saying that now it won't be delivered Tuesday.
一个半小时后，他们再次发短信，说现在周二不会送达。
And so I call them, and I'm like, what's the deal?
所以我打电话给他们，我想，这是怎么回事？
And they go, oh, there's been a truck breakdown.
他们说，哦，卡车出了故障。
And I was like, oh.
我当时想，哦。
So when can it come now?
那么现在什么时候能来呢？
And they go, oh, hang on a second.
他们说，哦，等一下。
And they look at their notes or whatever.
他们会看笔记或其他什么。
And they go, oh, no, no, wait.
他们说，哦，不，不，等等。
You are good for tomorrow.
你对明天有好处。
And I was like, I am good for tomorrow?
我当时想，我明天还好吗？
They were like, yeah, because it's already been added to the route.
他们说，是的，因为它已经被添加到路线中了。
And I'm like, isn't there a truck breakdown?
我想，卡车不是出故障了吗？
Like, what-- you know, like, was that just something you said?
就像，什么——你知道，就像，这只是你说的话吗？
Like-- and I still don't know the answer to that.
就像——但我仍然不知道答案。
I have to say, this is one of the most annoying things about this kind of runaround.
我不得不说，这是这种逃避行为中最令人恼火的事情之一。
At every stage, you get answers that leave you sort of squinting and scratching your head, trying to understand them.
在每个阶段，你得到的答案都会让你眯着眼睛、挠头试图理解它们。
Every explanation is a non-explanation.
每一种解释都是一种非解释。
So then, Tuesday, I get up again.
然后，周二，我又起床了。
I strip the bed.
我把床脱下来。
I pick the mattress up off the floor.
我把床垫从地板上捡起来。
I lean it up against the wall.
我把它靠在墙上。
And then I get a text saying, your delivery is confirmed for Thursday.
然后我收到一条短信，说您的交货已确认，周四。
This time when he calls, there's no explanation at all, just an apology.
这次他打电话过来，没有任何解释，只是道歉。
Thursday comes.
星期四到了。
And on Thursday, I get up.
周四，我起床。
I do not strip the bed, nor do I pull the mattress off the floor, because beginning to learn.
我不会把床拆下来，也不会把床垫从地板上拉下来，因为我开始学习了。
Of course, it doesn't come.
当然，它不会来。
Sean Cole And I call them, and I'm like, what's going on?
肖恩·科尔：我给他们打电话，我想，发生了什么事？
Then they go, oh, there's a hard hold on this order.
然后他们就说，哦，这个订单被严格保留了。
And I'm like, why is there a hard hold?
我想，为什么会有硬握？
And they go, oh, there was a duplicate on the order docket, two bed frames and headboards here that are scheduled for shipment for the same person.
他们说，哦，订单清单上有重复的内容，这里有两个床架和床头板，计划为同一个人发货。
They thought it might be a mistake, and they didn't want to ship until they knew.
他们认为这可能是一个错误，在知道之前他们不想发货。
Sean wonders why didn't they just contact him and ask if he ordered two beds.
肖恩想知道他们为什么不直接联系他并询问他是否订购了两张床。
And also, has this been on his paperwork from the start?
而且，这从一开始就在他的文书工作中吗？
Then that's always been the case, right?
那么情况一直都是这样，对吧？
Like, why am I only finding out about this now?
比如说，为什么我现在才知道这个？
And that means, like, it was never going to come or something?
这意味着，就像，它永远不会到来或者什么？
And--
还有——
And now you're wondering, is this even true that there's a problem in the paperwork?
现在您想知道，文书工作确实存在问题吗？
Well, no, because it seemed so specific.
嗯，不，因为它看起来很具体。
Like, why would you make up something like that?
比如，你为什么要编造这样的东西？
Unless it's just like-- I don't know.
除非就像——我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I guess the answer is, I don't know, and it's maddening.
我想答案是，我不知道，这令人抓狂。
Then, after thinking they had to deliver two beds to Sean, they admitted they didn't have any.
然后，在考虑必须向肖恩提供两张床后，他们承认自己没有。
They did a week-long dock search, finally showed up with a bed, but it was the wrong size, which put Sean back at square one.
他们进行了为期一周的码头搜索，终于找到了一张床，但尺寸不对，这让肖恩又回到了原点。
Early on, Sean started to keep a record of all these interactions with RXO and Casper.
早些时候，Sean 开始记录与 RXO 和 Casper 的所有互动。
And at this point, it is 18 pages long.
此时，它已经有 18 页长了。
If this document were a poem, what would it be called?
如果这份文件是一首诗，它会被称为什么？
--uh, "How Do You Sleep?" Ira Glass When we reached out to RXO and Casper, the bed company, to find out how they do sleep at night, given their treatment of Sean Cole, the answer was refreshingly honest.
——呃，“你睡得怎么样？”当我们联系 RXO 和床具公司 Casper，了解他们对肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 的治疗方式后，他们晚上的睡眠情况如何，得到的答案是令人耳目一新的诚实。
Casper's VP of operations emailed admitting, yeah, the last few years, because global supply chains have been so crazy, Casper has experienced, quote, "a myriad of disruptions."
卡斯珀的运营副总裁在电子邮件中承认，是的，在过去几年中，由于全球供应链如此疯狂，卡斯珀经历了“无数的中断”。
He did say that only a tiny portion of the shipping is done with RXO, and they're trying to work with RXO to improve things.
他确实说过，只有一小部分运输是通过 RXO 完成的，他们正在尝试与 RXO 合作来改进事情。
90% of their customers, he said, rate their experience with RXO favorably, meaning 10% do not.
他说，90% 的客户对 RXO 的体验给予好评，这意味着 10% 的客户对此持否定态度。
Sean is 1 in 10.
肖恩是十分之一。
Pretty bad odds, if you ask me.
如果你问我的话，可能性相当小。
My take is that they never actually had a bed for him.
我的看法是，他们实际上从未为他准备过床。
Sean feels like he's come this far, he doesn't want to start over with a different company.
Sean 觉得自己已经走到了这一步，他不想在另一家公司重新开始。
A runaround hits different people different ways.
逃避对不同的人有不同的影响。
I'm the perfect person to give the runaround to because I am preternaturally indisposed to flipping out-- you know, demanding a result.
我是最适合逃避的人，因为我异常不愿意发脾气——你知道，要求一个结果。
You're saying you wouldn't do these things.
你是说你不会做这些事。
I would not do these things.
我不会做这些事。
I'm the person who you want to give the runaround to because, like, I'm not going to, like, reach through the phone and try to strangle you.
我是你想要逃避的人，因为，就像，我不会，就像，通过电话试图掐死你。
Like, even when I freak out, I'm polite about it.
就像，即使我吓坏了，我也会很有礼貌。
True.
真的。
Sean can get a little worked up talking to me about all this, but the harshest he ever got with Casper or RXO is a sternly-worded email that sounds like it was written by an English gentleman in the year 1820.
Sean 跟我谈论这一切可能会有点激动，但他对 Casper 或 RXO 最严厉的是一封措辞严厉的电子邮件，听起来像是 1820 年一位英国绅士写的。
Quote, "This is beyond unacceptable.
引用：“这是令人无法接受的。
Please let me know what Casper intends to do to rectify this situation.
请让我知道 Casper 打算采取什么措施来纠正这种情况。
Yours, sincerely."
您的，真诚的。”
A runaround-- where you float in that weird information limbo where you can't tell what the truth is, where you don't get what you want, in a contest of wills with some other person or entity, and it goes on, and on, and on, it just doesn't end, it tests you.
一种逃避——你漂浮在那种奇怪的信息边缘，你无法说出真相是什么，你无法得到你想要的东西，在与其他人或实体的意志较量中，它继续，继续，继续，它只是没有结束，它考验你。
It shows you who you are.
它告诉你你是谁。
Today on our program, some very different kinds of runarounds and some very different reactions to them from people who are being pushed to their very limits.
今天在我们的节目中，有一些非常不同类型的逃避，以及那些被逼到极限的人们对它们的一些非常不同的反应。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Like the Show 48 Hours, Except a Lot More Hours." So this first story is about somebody who, like Sean, is being given the runaround, but the runaround is about something much more consequential to her life than a bed frame.
第一幕，“就像《48 小时》一样，只是时间多得多。”所以第一个故事是关于像肖恩这样的人，她被逃避了，但逃避是关于对她的生活比床架更重要的事情。
And the woman it's happening to, over and over, she has to decide whether to cut her losses and walk away, or stay with it and fight her way through.
对于一次又一次发生这种情况的女人来说，她必须决定是否要减少损失并走开，或者坚持下去并奋斗到底。
Reporter Brenna Smith, who first wrote about this for the news site, the Baltimore Banner, explains.
记者布伦娜·史密斯 (Brenna Smith) 解释说，他是新闻网站《巴尔的摩旗帜报》(Baltimore Banner) 首次报道此事的人。
Even before this whole thing began, Renee's life involved a lot of running around.
甚至在这一切开始之前，蕾妮的生活就充满了奔波。
She's busy-- got three kids, works days and nights as a home health aide.
她很忙——要照顾三个孩子，日以继夜地担任家庭健康助理。
When money's tight, she also drives for DoorDash and Instacart.
当资金紧张时，她还为 DoorDash 和 Instacart 开车。
She spends a lot of time in her car, like a lot of busy people.
她像很多忙碌的人一样，花了很多时间在车里。
But unlike a lot of busy people, Renee told me and my producer Chris, she usually chooses the slowest possible route to her next destination because--
但蕾妮告诉我和我的制片人克里斯，与许多忙碌的人不同的是，她通常会选择最慢的路线到达下一个目的地，因为——
I'm scared of beltways.
我害怕环城公路。
I mean, I don't do beltways.
我的意思是，我不做环城公路。
I take the long way everywhere.
我到处都走很远的路。
What do you mean you're scared of beltways?
你害怕环城公路是什么意思？
I'm just scared of all the traffic-- like, so many different lanes with cars.
我只是害怕所有的交通——比如这么多不同的车道上有汽车。
I have real bad anxiety.
我真的很焦虑。
My nerves are bad.
我的神经不好。
So I think it's just, like, so many different lanes with just so many cars flying past you, so I just prefer not to.
所以我认为，就像有这么多不同的车道，有这么多的汽车从你身边飞过，所以我不想这样做。
I'd rather go on side roads.
我宁愿走小路。
Is there, like, a Renee speed limit?
Renee 有速度限制吗？
Like, above this--
比如，上面这个——
Yeah, I don't like to go any past like 45.
是的，我不喜欢45岁这样的过去。
Renee's commitment to the local roads just outside of Baltimore, where she lives, will sometimes add 20, 30, even 40 minutes to her trips.
Renee 对她所居住的巴尔的摩郊外的当地道路的投入有时会使她的行程增加 20、30 甚至 40 分钟。
So that's Renee.
这就是蕾妮。
The story I want to tell you started last spring when something went wrong with Renee's SNAP benefits-- her food stamps.
我想告诉你的故事始于去年春天，当时蕾妮的 SNAP 福利（她的食品券）出了问题。
Her monthly money stopped appearing on her benefits card.
她每月的钱不再出现在她的福利卡上。
Fixing this took five or six trips to the social services office, filling out tons of paperwork, and three months of waiting.
解决这个问题需要去社会服务办公室五六次，填写大量文件，并等待三个月。
This isn't unusual for her or anyone on benefits.
这对她或任何领取福利的人来说并不罕见。
Finally, a kind woman at the front desk at social services looked into her case and found some glitch in the system.
最后，社会服务前台一位善良的女士查看了她的案例，发现系统出现了一些故障。
She fixed it for Renee, and the next morning, everything was made right.
她为蕾妮修好了，第二天早上，一切都准备好了。
All three months of missed benefits showed up at once.
所有三个月错过的福利都立即出现。
She now had almost $3,000 on her card, the highest she'd ever had.
现在，她的卡上有近 3,000 美元，这是她所拥有的最高金额。
Renee felt a wave of relief.
蕾妮感到一阵轻松。
But a couple of weeks later, Renee went online to check the balance on her card.
但几周后，蕾妮上网查看卡上的余额。
And everything was gone, except $66.
除了 66 美元之外，一切都消失了。
That's all I can really remember.
这就是我真正记得的一切。
I thought it was a mistake.
我以为这是一个错误。
I thought, well, let me get off the app.
我想，好吧，让我退出该应用程序吧。
And I cleared it out and tried it again, same thing.
我把它清理掉并再次尝试，同样的事情。
She called the number on the back of the card to make sure and found out, again, $66.
她拨打卡背面的号码进行确认，结果再次发现是 66 美元。
First, she was just confused.
首先，她只是感到困惑。
And then she noticed large transactions at stores she's never visited near Washington, D.C., where she never goes, because beltways.
然后她注意到华盛顿特区附近她从未去过的商店发生了大量交易，因为那里是环城公路，所以她从来不去那里。
She realized someone had somehow stolen her SNAP money.
她意识到有人不知何故偷了她的 SNAP 钱。
The thousands of dollars she'd just gotten back on her card was gone in one afternoon.
她卡上刚刚收回的数千美元一下午就花光了。
And this is where her runaround began.
这就是她的逃亡开始的地方。
I've been reporting on social services, like SNAP in Maryland, and I've seen SNAP fraud happening a lot.
我一直在报道社会服务，例如马里兰州的 SNAP，并且我看到 SNAP 欺诈行为发生了很多。
Benefits theft skyrocketed from $90,000 in 2021 to over $1.5 dollars in 2022.
福利盗窃金额从 2021 年的 9 万美元飙升至 2022 年的 1.5 美元以上。
SNAP fraud is actually up across the US.
SNAP 欺诈实际上在美国各地普遍存在。
The night it happened to Renee, she couldn't stop crying and couldn't sleep.
蕾妮发生这件事的那天晚上，她无法停止哭泣，无法入睡。
This is money she used to buy food for her kids.
这是她用来给孩子们买食物的钱。
Without it, she'd have to pick up extra jobs, get behind on rent.
如果没有这笔钱，她就不得不做额外的工作，拖欠房租。
So the next morning, she marched into the same government building she'd been in so many times before to fix the problem in person.
因此第二天早上，她走进了她之前多次去过的同一座政府大楼，亲自解决这个问题。
Maybe she'd get the nice lady again.
也许她会再次遇到那个好女人。
I went down to the social services, and the same lady that fixed the food stamps was like, yeah, I remember.
我去了社会服务部门，那位负责发放食品券的女士说，是的，我记得。
I just fixed them for you.
我刚帮你修好了。
And all the money that, you know, was going to come on your card-- she was almost in tears.
你知道，所有的钱都会存入你的卡上——她几乎哭了。
She said, I feel so bad for you, because it's so much.
她说，我为你感到难过，因为事情太多了。
She said, I've never seen that much be taken at once.
她说，我从来没有见过一次拿走这么多东西。
She said, but I can tell you now, they're not going to-- they're not going to refund anything.
她说，但我现在可以告诉你，他们不会——他们不会退还任何东西。
The woman told Renee, because the stolen SNAP money is actually federal money, Maryland couldn't pay her back.
这位女士告诉蕾妮，因为被盗的 SNAP 资金实际上是联邦资金，马里兰州无法偿还她。
It was a statewide policy.
这是一项全州政策。
She said, there was nothing-- she said, I really wish we could help you.
她说，没什么——她说，我真的希望我们能帮助你。
And then of course, everybody in the whole-- because you know, you're sitting there with all these people.
当然，还有所有人——因为你知道，你和所有这些人坐在一起。
And the window, everybody can hear you talk, because you're only walking a couple of steps to the window.
还有窗户，每个人都可以听到你说话，因为你只走了几步就到了窗户。
And you know, you've got the whole room looking at you at one time, so I felt so stupid.
你知道，整个房间的人都在看着你，所以我觉得自己很愚蠢。
I'm crying.
我哭了。
And I don't-- I don't like crying in front of people.
我不——我不喜欢在人们面前哭泣。
I try to hold my emotions back.
我努力抑制自己的情绪。
And it was hard that day.
而且那天很艰难。
I just couldn't hold it back.
我就是忍不住了。
I first met Renee on this Facebook group for parents in Maryland who use benefits like SNAP.
我第一次见到 Renee 是在这个 Facebook 群组，该群组为马里兰州使用 SNAP 等福利的家长提供。
There were lots of parents, mostly moms, writing in, saying they had had their benefits stolen.
有很多家长，其中大部分是妈妈，写信说他们的福利被盗了。
And there was Renee, posting all the time about what had happened to her and really trying to help everyone else.
还有蕾妮，她一直在发布发生在她身上的事情，并努力帮助其他人。
"Everyone, please read this," she wrote.
“大家请读一下这篇文章，”她写道。
"If we all come together and report this to the police and social services, then something may be done." There were lots of moms who had tried to get social services to refund them.
“如果我们大家齐心协力，向警方和社会服务部门报告此事，那么可能会有所作为。”有很多妈妈试图让社会服务机构退款。
No luck.
运气不好。
They'd also filed reports with their local police.
他们还向当地警方提交了报告。
Nothing.
没有什么。
I talked to dozens of them, and Renee was in a category of her own.
我和几十个人聊过，蕾妮属于她自己的一类人。
She did far more than anyone else.
她所做的远比任何人都多。
When I got her on the phone back then, she'd been playing phone and email tag for days, bouncing between every authority figure she could find-- the Office of the Inspector General for Maryland's Social Services, the USDA in D.C., which funds SNAP, even the Maryland legislature where she called delegate after delegate, but it all got her nowhere.
当时我给她打电话时，她已经连续好几天打电话和电子邮件，在她能找到的每一个权威人物之间来回穿梭——马里兰州社会服务监察长办公室、为 SNAP 提供资金的美国农业部，甚至是马里兰州立法机构，她给一个又一个的代表打电话，但这一切都毫无结果。
I just spoke to Delegate Robin Grammar, I think his name is, yesterday.
我昨天刚刚与 Robin Grammar 代表交谈过，我想他的名字是。
And he told me that, unfortunately, no matter what I do, he said they're not going to refund the money.
他告诉我，不幸的是，无论我做什么，他说他们都不会退还钱。
The police weren't any help either.
警察也没有提供任何帮助。
The cop assigned to her case, Officer Timothy Valis, would sometimes take days to answer her texts, and didn't seem to be doing anything.
负责处理她案件的警察蒂莫西·瓦利斯警官有时需要几天时间才能回复她的短信，而且似乎什么也没做。
He was a rookie who hadn't graduated the academy yet.
他是一个尚未从学院毕业的新人。
So Renee did something I haven't seen anyone else do.
所以蕾妮做了一些我从未见过其他人做过的事情。
She decided to investigate her own case.
她决定调查自己的案件。
She was going to find the people who took her SNAP money.
她要找到那些拿走了她的 SNAP 钱的人。
One thing about Renee, she loves true crime shows, like 48 Hours.
Renee 有一件事，她喜欢真实的犯罪剧，比如《48 小时》。
So she knew how important the first couple of days are in any investigation.
所以她知道前几天对于任何调查都有多么重要。
She was worried time was slipping away, so she went to the facts she had.
她担心时间正在流逝，所以她根据现有的事实进行了分析。
The SNAP benefits app had given her the details for every fraudulent transaction, all seven of them.
SNAP 福利应用程序向她提供了每笔欺诈交易的详细信息，总共七笔。
They included a dollar amount, a date, and the name of each store.
其中包括金额、日期和每家商店的名称。
There had been big purchases, some over $500.
有大量采购，有些超过 500 美元。
Renee thought that maybe those stores could rewind their security footage to the times of those transactions and maybe identify the thieves.
蕾妮认为，也许这些商店可以将他们的安全录像倒回到这些交易的时间，也许可以识别窃贼。
She texts all this to Officer Valis.
她把所有这些都发短信给瓦利斯警官。
I said, I looked at my food stamp app on my phone and wanted to let you know I found all the store numbers that these people used my food stamp card.
我说，我查看了手机上的食品券应用程序，想让你知道我找到了这些人使用我的食品券卡的所有商店号码。
I sent him the picture of all that.
我把所有这些的照片发给他。
Then he said, OK, thank you.
然后他说，好的，谢谢。
And then I said--
然后我说——
She suggested the police contact the stores, but nothing happened.
她建议警方联系商店，但没有任何反应。
So--
所以——
I called the stores myself.
我亲自给商店打电话。
Brenna Smith Most of the stores wouldn't help her.
布伦娜·史密斯 大多数商店都不会帮助她。
They don't show surveillance footage to customers, only police.
他们不会向顾客展示监控录像，只向警方展示。
But one manager at an international market agreed to check.
但国际市场的一位经理同意进行检查。
And they pulled the video of the people that did it.
他们还撤下了干这事的人的视频。
Wow.
哇。
Renee So she sent me one, two, three, four, five pictures, and one four-second video of them just driving away.
蕾妮于是给我发了一张、两张、三张、四张、五张照片，还有一段四秒的视频，内容是他们刚刚开车离开。
And all of a sudden, Renee was looking at the faces of the people who stole from her, security footage from a Sunday in early August.
突然间，蕾妮看到了那些从她那里偷东西的人的脸，这是八月初的一个周日的监控录像。
It looked to be during the day.
看起来是白天。
It was bright out.
外面天色明亮。
The photo was grainy, but she could make out a middle-aged man exiting the store.
照片很模糊，但她能辨认出一名中年男子正走出商店。
Then, in a different photo, a woman with a low bun and a blue-striped skirt with a shopping cart.
然后，在另一张照片中，一个女人梳着低髻，穿着蓝色条纹裙子，推着购物车。
And you see in the back of the cart, the people that stole it, they bought cases and cases of baby formula.
你可以在购物车的后面看到，偷车的人，他们买了一箱又一箱的婴儿配方奶粉。
Oh.
哦。
Renee So they didn't buy groceries.
蕾妮：所以他们没有买杂货。
These people bought cases of baby formula.
这些人购买了成箱的婴儿配方奶粉。
It's on the picture.
就在图片上。
$1,200 of baby formula, which seems weird, but it makes sense if you think about it.
1200美元的婴儿配方奶粉，听起来很奇怪，但仔细想想也是有道理的。
Formula is a very efficient way to convert food stamps into cash.
配方奶粉是将食品券兑换成现金的非常有效的方式。
It's in every grocery store.
每个杂货店都有。
It doesn't go bad quickly, like meat.
它不会像肉一样很快变质。
It's dense, so you can pack a lot of it into your car.
它很稠密，所以你可以把很多东西装进你的车里。
And in the summer of 2022, there was a shortage of it.
而到了2022年夏天，就出现了短缺。
Renee had found the suspects and the getaway car.
蕾妮找到了嫌疑人和逃跑的汽车。
The footage showed them driving off in a Toyota minivan.
视频显示他们驾驶一辆丰田小型货车离开。
But she still had no idea how to find out their names, their identities.
但她仍然不知道如何找出他们的名字，他们的身份。
And even after squinting every which way at the photos of the license plate, she still couldn't make out what it was.
即使她眯着眼睛从各个方向看了一眼车牌照片，她仍然看不出那是什么。
If you look at it from a certain way, you could see a little better.
如果你从某种角度来看，你可能会看得更好一些。
But then once you really start to-- it's confusing.
但一旦你真正开始——就会感到困惑。
It's really hard to-- so I just kind of took that and sent that to the officer.
这真的很难——所以我只是把它发给了官员。
When Renee texted all this to Officer Valis, he didn't say much.
当蕾妮把这一切发短信给瓦利斯警官时，他没有说太多。
Just, quote, "I updated the report with the information you've given me." He also said he'd referred her case to the department's investigative and cybercrime units.
只需引用“我用您提供给我的信息更新了报告”。他还表示，他已将她的案件转交给该部门的调查和网络犯罪部门。
Then he stopped responding, for weeks.
然后他就不再回复了，持续了好几个星期。
So now he's not answering any of my texts asking if he has found anything else out, nothing.
所以现在他没有回复我的任何短信询问他是否发现了其他任何事情，什么也没有。
He has not responded to you since August 13.
自8月13日起他就没有回复过你。
Nothing.
什么也没有。
No answer.
没有答案。
I'm just like-- I just feel like people don't really care because it's not someone close to them that has needed food stamps.
我只是觉得人们并不真正关心，因为不是他们身边的人需要食品券。
And this is not like $100.
这不像 100 美元。
I wouldn't even probably even call if it was something small.
如果是小事，我什至可能不会打电话。
This is almost $3,000.
这几乎是 3,000 美元。
And this is not from me, this is from my children-- it's taken from my kids.
这不是我的，这是我的孩子们的——它是从我的孩子们那里拿来的。
Then, in late August, Renee receives a letter from social services.
然后，八月下旬，蕾妮收到了一封来自社会服务机构的信。
It says they looked into her case and, quote, "did not find a system error or that the card was used fraudulently." There would be no refund.
据称，他们调查了她的案件，“没有发现系统错误或该卡被欺诈使用。”不会有退款。
Other moms on the Facebook group had gotten the same letter, and a lot of them had given up at that point.
Facebook 群组上的其他妈妈也收到了同样的信，其中很多人当时就放弃了。
But Renee reads the fine print.
但蕾妮读了细则。
She noticed that the bottom of the letter offered her the chance to appeal this finding before a judge, with evidence.
她注意到信的底部为她提供了向法官提出上诉并提供证据的机会。
I think it's called, like, some kind of fair hearing or something from social services.
我认为这被称为某种公平听证会或来自社会服务的东西。
And I've got to prove that it wasn't me, even though it's clearly these people.
我必须证明那不是我，尽管这显然是这些人干的。
I have to prove that and try to fight that in, you know, court or wherever.
我必须证明这一点，并尝试在法庭或任何地方与之抗争。
So she was going to file an appeal.
于是，她准备提出上诉。
It was a lot of money.
这是很多钱。
And some part of her just wanted to prove that this thing had actually happened to her, that she had been robbed.
她内心的某些部分只是想证明这件事确实发生在她身上，她被抢劫了。
All she had was grainy footage from one of the stores.
她所拥有的只是其中一家商店的模糊镜头。
She wanted a stronger case.
她想要一个更有力的理由。
If she could get better quality security footage from another store, maybe she could identify the license plate, which could lead you to the criminals.
如果她能从另一家商店获得质量更好的安全录像，也许她可以识别车牌，从而找到犯罪分子。
She wanted to go in person.
她想亲自去。
But again, these stores were near Washington D.C., a beltway, an interstate highway, and another beltway away.
但同样，这些商店靠近华盛顿特区，有一条环城公路、一条州际高速公路，还有另一条环城公路。
And her car wasn't in great shape.
而且她的车状况也不是很好。
And so--
所以——
OK, we're recording.
好的，我们正在录音。
Let's see.
让我们来看看。
OK.
好的。
We're going to be there at 10:36.
我们将于 10 点 36 分到达那里。
OK.
好的。
Brenna Smith And that's how I wound up picking up Renee at her red brick rowhouse outside Baltimore on a muggy August day to drive to D.C. We managed to find a time for this after Renee performed some serious scheduling gymnastics-- got a babysitter, moved around her hectic work schedule.
布伦娜·史密斯 就这样，我在八月闷热的一天，在巴尔的摩郊外的红砖排屋接蕾妮，开车去华盛顿特区。在蕾妮做了一些认真的日程安排之后，我们设法找到了一个时间——找了一个保姆，在她忙碌的工作日程中移动。
I recognized her from Facebook, a white lady in her 30s with a round face and big green eyes.
我在 Facebook 上认出了她，一位 30 多岁的白人女士，圆脸，绿色的大眼睛。
Renee was so competent on the phone.
蕾妮在电话里非常能干。
But today, faced with the prospect of doing in-person detective work, she's nervous again.
但今天，面对亲自进行侦探工作的前景，她再次感到紧张。
No, I don't think you need to take anything.
不，我认为你不需要采取任何措施。
I think you just need to come in and--
我想你只需要进来然后——
Just go?
就走吧？
Brenna Smith Yeah, just explain who you are and why you're there.
布伦娜·史密斯：是的，请解释一下你是谁以及你为什么在那里。
OK.
好的。
We stopped right outside D.C., a CVS.
我们就在华盛顿特区外面停了下来，一辆 CVS。
Renee had already called the store and talked to a guy named Keith, a manager.
蕾妮已经给商店打了电话，并与一位名叫基思的经理交谈。
We walk in to find him.
我们走进去寻找他。
Hi.
你好。
Oh, I spoke to you.
哦，我和你说话了。
Keith.
基思.
You're a manager too?
你也是经理？
Yeah.
是的。
Renee Oh, OK.
蕾妮哦，好的。
I'm the one that spoke to him about the baby formula that was stolen.
我是那个跟他谈论婴儿配方奶粉被盗的人。
Yeah-- oh.
是的——哦。
Brenna Smith They tell Renee what everyone else did-- they're only allowed to show security footage to law enforcement.
布伦娜·史密斯 他们告诉蕾妮其他人都做了什么——他们只被允许向执法部门展示安全录像。
But, they add, there is a police station a couple blocks away.
但是，他们补充说，几个街区之外有一个警察局。
So if I went there-- CVS Employee 2 Yeah, you go in there.
所以如果我去那里—— CVS 员工 2 是的，你去那里。
I don't know if they'll come right over here, but--
我不知道他们是否会马上过来，但是——
So if they come back here-- if they do, which they probably won't, but then you'll be able to show them?
所以，如果他们回到这里——如果他们回来了，他们可能不会，但你就能向他们展示？
Within minutes, we're standing outside the police department for the small town of Seat Pleasant, Maryland, telling Renee's story.
几分钟之内，我们就站在马里兰州西特普莱森特小镇的警察局外，讲述蕾妮的故事。
She explains that she had had her food stamps stolen.
她解释说她的食品券被偷了。
One of the cops has a hard time understanding how this crime had gone down.
一名警察很难理解这起犯罪事件是如何发生的。
Specifically, how the thieves got their own card.
具体来说，小偷是如何得到自己的卡的。
They're saying-- Photographer They skim it.
他们说——摄影师 他们略读了。
He had my card, even though I have my card.
他有我的卡，尽管我有我的卡。
They had a card.
他们有一张卡。
Like, we have--
就像，我们有——
Well, when you skim, they punch in the PINs.
嗯，当你浏览时，他们会输入 PIN 码。
A skimmer is a device that thieves put over card scanners.
盗卡器是窃贼放置在卡片扫描仪上方的装置。
It looks just like a card scanner, so you can't tell.
它看起来就像一个卡片扫描仪，所以你无法辨别。
It can capture your card information, including your PIN.
它可以捕获您的卡信息，包括您的 PIN 码。
Most EBT cards-- the benefits cards people on assistance, like Renee, use to buy food-- they don't have the encrypted chips that most credit and debit cards do.
大多数 EBT 卡（像 Renee 这样接受援助的人用来购买食物的福利卡）没有大多数信用卡和借记卡所具有的加密芯片。
Cards with chips are harder to skim.
带芯片的卡片更难浏览。
On top of that, EBT cards don't have fraud detection services.
最重要的是，EBT 卡没有欺诈检测服务。
You know, like those text messages you get about suspicious credit card transactions.
您知道，就像您收到的有关可疑信用卡交易的短信一样。
Text 1 if it was you.
如果是您，请发短信 1。
And if not, they'll cancel the transaction.
如果没有，他们将取消交易。
And even with debit cards, you can usually call your bank and tell them that I was stolen from yesterday, and you could get your money back.
即使使用借记卡，你通常也可以打电话给你的银行，告诉他们我昨天被盗了，你就可以拿回你的钱。
Renee's EBT card didn't have any of that.
Renee 的 EBT 卡上没有这些内容。
All of this has turned SNAP recipients into easy marks, even people like Renee, who never lets her card out of her sight.
所有这一切都让 SNAP 领取者变得容易被标记，甚至包括像 Renee 这样的人，她从来不会让她的卡离开她的视线。
We try to explain all of this to the officer, who listens to Renee's story.
我们试图向警官解释这一切，他听了蕾妮的故事。
Bowers!
鲍尔斯！
Brenna Smith The officer calls over another cop, Officer Bowers.
布伦娜·史密斯 警官叫来了另一名警察鲍尔斯警官。
His supervisor tells him to get the footage from CVS for us.
他的主管让他从 CVS 为我们获取录像。
Bowers hops into his patrol car, and we get back into my car to follow him.
鲍尔斯跳上他的巡逻车，我们回到我的车里跟着他。
Then, as we're driving, we notice Bowers' car has its lights flashing.
然后，当我们开车时，我们注意到鲍尔斯的车灯在闪烁。
Yeah.
是的。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
We have a freaking police escort to a CVS.
我们有一个可怕的警察护送去CVS。
What?
什么？
I'm not playing here.
我不在这里玩。
Brenna Smith Yeah.
布伦娜·史密斯 是的。
If this don't make the news.
如果这不上新闻的话。
See, we're not playing?
你看，我们不是在玩吗？
Look, he's in front of us, directing us with his lights on.
看，他就在我们前面，开着灯给我们指路。
When we get there, Bowers talks to the CVS employee, who shows him to the back room.
当我们到达那里时，鲍尔斯与 CVS 员工交谈，后者带他去了后面的房间。
We wait out front in the store for about 15 or 20 minutes.
我们在店门口等了大约15或20分钟。
Then Officer Bowers and the CVS employee re-emerge.
然后鲍尔斯警官和 CVS 员工重新出现。
Same one?
是同一个吗？
Officer Bowers That's them, yeah.
鲍尔斯警官 就是他们，是的。
Bowers told us it was the same woman, the one in a low bun, in a blue-striped skirt, buying hundreds of dollars of baby formula.
鲍尔斯告诉我们，这是同一位女士，梳着低髻，穿着蓝色条纹裙子，正在购买数百美元的婴儿配方奶粉。
OK.
好的。
Yup.
是的。
Give me one second.
给我一秒钟。
Brenna Smith Are we able to get the video?
布伦娜·史密斯 我们能拿到视频吗？
Officer Bowers shows us the security footage, which he recorded on his phone.
鲍尔斯警官向我们展示了他用手机录制的监控录像。
We see the woman getting into the same silver minivan after.
我们看到那个女人随后进入了同一辆银色小型货车。
We do have a vehicle.
我们确实有一辆车。
It's a Toyota Sienna.
这是一辆丰田西耶纳。
Yeah, mhm.
是的，嗯。
Renee Yeah, same one from the other.
Renee 是的，另一张是一样的。
Yeah.
是的。
So I think this is a West Virginia tag.
所以我认为这是西弗吉尼亚州的标签。
The license plate, the thing that could lead them to the criminals-- it's blurry here too.
车牌，可能会引导他们找到罪犯的东西——这里也很模糊。
But Bowers says he'd use some fancy police tool to try to figure it out.
但鲍尔斯表示，他会使用一些奇特的警方工具来尝试解决这个问题。
Finally, the runaround had landed Renee somewhere.
最终，蕾妮的逃跑终于到达了某个地方。
She'd found someone in a position of authority actually willing to help her.
她找到了一个真正愿意帮助她的有权威的人。
A few days later, Officer Bowers calls me.
几天后，鲍尔斯警官给我打电话。
He won't let me record or conference Renee in, so I have to tell her afterward what he said.
他不让我录音或与蕾妮开会，所以我必须事后告诉她他说的话。
I tell her that Bowers said he thinks he found a match for the license plate, but he couldn't hand that information over to her.
我告诉她鲍尔斯说他认为他找到了车牌的匹配项，但他无法将该信息交给她。
His supervisor will no longer let him work on the case.
他的主管将不再让他处理此案。
Wow.
哇。
Brenna Smith Yeah, because Baltimore County already has an investigation and that-- it can only be done through Baltimore County now.
布伦娜·史密斯：是的，因为巴尔的摩县已经进行了调查，而且现在只能通过巴尔的摩县进行。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Brenna Smith And so Renee's case landed back in the hands of the cop who wasn't answering her texts or calls.
布伦娜·史密斯（Brenna Smith）因此蕾妮的案子又回到了那个没有回复她的短信或电话的警察手中。
Renee understood Bowers was just following his boss's orders, but still.
蕾妮明白鲍尔斯只是听从老板的命令，但仍然如此。
It feels like, even though it wasn't his fault, it's like all these other people let me down.
感觉就像，即使这不是他的错，但就像所有其他人都让我失望一样。
So when we went there and they actually helped us, I was so excited.
所以当我们去那里并且他们确实帮助了我们时，我非常兴奋。
I was so excited.
我很兴奋。
I was thinking, OK, well, he was going to call and we're going to have some news saying that they caught these people or something, just something.
我在想，好吧，好吧，他会打电话给我们，我们会收到一些消息，说他们抓住了这些人或其他什么东西，只是一些东西。
And then now he's doing the same, just like every other one did.
现在他也在做同样的事情，就像其他人一样。
Right.
正确的。
Renee I don't know what to think anymore.
蕾妮 我不知道该怎么想了。
I mean, I could try to call Officer Valis.
我的意思是，我可以试着打电话给瓦利斯警官。
But if he's not answering my texts, he's not going to answer the calls either.
但如果他不回复我的短信，他也不会接听电话。
I have no idea.
我不知道。
Renee Now, I can-- I can contact the guy from the OIG.
Renee 现在，我可以——我可以联系监察办的人。
He was really nice, but nobody's saying anything.
他真的很好，但没人说什么。
Right.
正确的。
Renee Just kind of keeping me in the dark, like-- you know.
蕾妮只是让我蒙在鼓里，就像——你知道的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's just weird to me.
这对我来说很奇怪。
Like, this happened to me.
就像，这发生在我身上。
I am not some kind of-- the suspect.
我不是某种——嫌疑人。
I am the victim that this happened to.
我是这件事发生的受害者。
Right.
正确的。
Renee (VOICE BREAKING) I'm just tired of all.
蕾妮（断音）：我只是厌倦了这一切。
I'm tired of all of it.
我厌倦了这一切。
I'm so sorry, Renee.
我很抱歉，蕾妮。
Renee It's just frustrating, you know?
蕾妮 这真是令人沮丧，你知道吗？
You get in touch with all these people.
您与所有这些人取得联系。
They promise to keep you updated, promise to call you back, and nothing.
他们承诺让你随时了解最新情况，承诺给你回电话，但什么也没有。
It makes you think, like, why did I even ask for their help in the first place?
这会让你思考，为什么我一开始要寻求他们的帮助？
So, I mean, I don't know what else to do.
所以，我的意思是，我不知道还能做什么。
I've done everything I could.
我已经尽力了。
There's nothing else for me to do.
我没有别的事可做。
While she was trying to run down this $3,000, there was so much else going on in her life.
当她试图用完这 3,000 美元时，她的生活中还有很多其他事情发生。
There always is.
总是有的。
In the last couple of months, a cracked tooth from stress, busted brakes on her minivan.
在过去的几个月里，她的小货车因压力而破裂，刹车失灵。
She had to give away her dog.
她不得不放弃她的狗。
They couldn't afford it.
他们买不起。
One day, her carbon monoxide alarm randomly went off, and she had to call the fire department to sort it out.
有一天，她的一氧化碳警报器突然响起，她不得不打电话给消防部门来解决问题。
But surprisingly, the day after I broke the news to her about Bowers, she managed to get in touch with the cop who had been ghosting her for weeks.
但令人惊讶的是，在我向她透露有关鲍尔斯的消息的第二天，她设法联系到了几周来一直跟踪她的警察。
Remember Officer Valis, the Baltimore County cop who, this whole time, was supposed to be looking into her case?
还记得巴尔的摩县警察瓦利斯警官，他一直都应该调查她的案件吗？
She'd reached him, in a very kind of private detective sort of way.
她以一种非常私人侦探的方式找到了他。
So yesterday, I kept calling Officer Valis.
所以昨天我一直给瓦利斯警官打电话。
His phone is still going right to voicemail.
他的电话仍然直接转到语音信箱。
I said, this is weird.
我说，这很奇怪。
Why-- if it's a cell phone from work, why would it be off all the time?
为什么——如果是工作时的手机，为什么它会一直处于关机状态？
And then finally, I said, you know what?
最后，我说，你知道吗？
Something told me, try from a different phone.
有人告诉我，请尝试使用不同的手机。
So do you know, I called from my son's phone, and it rang.
你知道吗，我用我儿子的电话打了电话，然后电话响了。
[BRENNA GASPS] I said, oh, my god.
[布伦娜喘息]我说，哦，天哪。
I think he blocked my number.
我认为他屏蔽了我的号码。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Renee And I was so furious when I got in touch with him.
蕾妮 当我和他取得联系时我非常愤怒。
He's all like, hello?
他都说，你好？
And I'm like, hi, Officer Valis?
我说，嗨，瓦利斯警官？
He's like, who is this?
他说，这是谁？
I said, this is Renee.
我说，这是蕾妮。
I said, you're the one handling my case.
我说，你是处理我的案子的人。
I said, I'm wondering if, like, you blocked my number.
我说，我想知道你是否屏蔽了我的号码。
And it made me sound like a creep, but I was so mad.
这让我听起来像个怪人，但我真的很生气。
And I'm like, I have been trying to contact you.
我想，我一直在尝试联系你。
And he-- then, once I mentioned about being blocked, he started being super nice to me.
然后，当我提到被屏蔽的事情时，他就开始对我非常好。
And I said that you guys should be getting this information, not me-- not me and the news reporter.
我说你们应该得到这些信息，而不是我——而不是我和新闻记者。
We have been getting it.
我们一直在得到它。
We went to the source to get the footage, nobody else.
我们去源头获取录像，没有其他人。
And then he started-- he was, like, you know, try to stay strong.
然后他开始——你知道，他开始努力保持坚强。
We're trying.
我们正在努力。
And he gave me a number to another-- like Crime Stoppers, or something like that.
他给了我一个电话号码给另一个人——比如灭罪热线之类的。
He said they will get on this more than anybody else.
他说他们会比其他任何人都更关注这一点。
Like, what do you mean, they will get on this?
就像，你是什么意思，他们会这么做？
You guys-- if you can't leave your area that you're patrolling, then somebody should be going there and doing this.
你们——如果你们不能离开你们正在巡逻的区域，那么就应该有人去那里做这件事。
Then he also tells me that, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
然后他还告诉我，是的，我很确定。
I thought you could open another case in another area.
我以为你可以在另一个地区再开一个案件。
I said, well, the other guy told me that his boss said something different, and he don't think-- this is what I mean about the runaround.
我说，好吧，另一个人告诉我，他的老板说了一些不同的话，但他不认为——这就是我关于逃跑的意思。
Brenna Smith We reached out to the Baltimore county police department.
布伦娜·史密斯（Brenna Smith）我们联系了巴尔的摩县警察局。
They said Officer Valis did block Renee's member, quote, "for a brief period of time." But they also said he was working on her case.
他们说，瓦利斯警官确实封锁了蕾妮的成员，“一段时间”。但他们也表示他正在处理她的案子。
And after Renee got through to Valis, he did start updating her more.
在蕾妮与瓦利斯取得联系后，他确实开始向她提供更多最新消息。
He told her police found the skimmer that they think was used to steal her card number.
他告诉她，警方发现了窃听器，他们认为该窃听器是用来窃取她的卡号的。
But then, in November, Renee lost the appeal she had filed.
但随后，在 11 月，蕾妮输掉了她提出的上诉。
The judge complimented Renee's tenacity, saying she'd quote, "single-handedly and capably investigated the crime and identified suspects." But the judge also said that there's nothing in Maryland law that requires social services to repay stolen SNAP funds.
法官赞扬了蕾妮的坚韧，称她“单枪匹马、干练地调查了犯罪行为并确定了嫌疑人”。但法官还表示，马里兰州法律中没有任何规定要求社会服务机构偿还被盗的 SNAP 资金。
And so Renee wasn't going to get her money back.
所以蕾妮不会要回她的钱。
But she was still looking for some way.
但她仍在寻找某种方法。
And an attorney who volunteered to help her with her case said, there is a way.
一位自愿帮助她处理案件的律师说，有办法。
You can appeal the appeal.
您可以对上诉提出上诉。
Renee thought it over.
蕾妮想了想。
She's like, it's up to you.
她说，这取决于你。
Do you want to do another appeal?
您想再次上诉吗？
And I'm like, no. I said, what's the purpose?
我想，不。我说，目的是什么？
Like, just to be let down over and over by different judges that are saying, I'm sorry.
就像，只是一次又一次地被不同的法官失望说，我很抱歉。
But then on the other hand, it's like, I already came this far.
但另一方面，我已经走到这一步了。
Why not try to have another appeal and do it again?
为什么不尝试再次上诉并再次进行呢？
My mind just goes back and forth.
我的思绪只是来回走动。
Like, should I, shouldn't I?
就像，我应该，不应该吗？
Should I or shouldn't I?
我应该还是不应该？
Answer-- I should.
回答——我应该。
She filed a second appeal.
她提出第二次上诉。
There is actually one other way this whole thing could be fixed.
实际上还有另一种方法可以解决整个问题。
Congress could do something.
国会可以做点什么。
And, kind of amazingly, they sort of have.
而且，令人惊讶的是，他们确实做到了。
The huge spending bill Congress passed last month requires states to reimburse people who have had their SNAP benefits stolen.
国会上个月通过的巨额支出法案要求各州偿还 SNAP 福利被盗的人们。
It's not going to help Renee though.
但这对蕾妮没有帮助。
It only applies to thefts since October.
它仅适用于十月份以来的盗窃行为。
Hers was in August.
她的那年是八月。
Also, it ends in 2024, so it's a temporary fix.
此外，它将于 2024 年结束，因此这是一个临时修复。
But Renee's story did get noticed.
但蕾妮的故事确实引起了人们的注意。
She actually testified before the state senate.
她实际上在州参议院作证。
And later, her congressmen, who had been following this issue, introduced a bill that would fix things in a permanent way.
后来，一直关注这个问题的国会议员提出了一项永久解决问题的法案。
It has bipartisan support and looks like it might actually go somewhere.
它得到了两党的支持，看起来它可能真的会走向某个地方。
The runaround-- it's a thing that can happen to you, but it can also be a strategy.
逃避——这是一件可能发生在你身上的事情，但它也可以是一种策略。
You just stay in it until someone notices and does something.
你只需呆在其中，直到有人注意到并采取行动。
Ira Glass Brenna Smith.
艾拉·格拉斯布伦娜·史密斯。
She's an investigative reporter with the Baltimore Banner, where a version of her story first appeared.
她是《巴尔的摩旗帜报》的一名调查记者，她的故事的一个版本首次出现在该报上。
The story was produced by Chris Benderev.
这个故事由克里斯·本德列夫制作。
Coming up, a nine-year-old on a runaround that his dad does not understand.
接下来，一个九岁的孩子在他父亲不理解的情况下四处逃亡。
That's in a minute on Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台稍后将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "The Runaround." Stories of all kinds of runarounds that people find themselves trapped in, test who they are.
今天的节目是《逃亡》。人们发现自己陷入各种困境的故事，测试他们是谁。
And other sorts of runarounds as well.
还有其他类型的逃避。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, "Strange Loop."
第二幕，“奇怪的循环”。
So we now turn to a different kind of runaround.
所以我们现在转向另一种逃避方式。
And the person you're going to hear about next, nobody is giving him the runaround.
而你接下来要听到的那个人，却没有人对他进行回避。
He's just running around, for reasons that are mysterious even to those who are closest to him.
他只是到处乱跑，其原因甚至对他最亲近的人来说也很神秘。
David Kestenbaum talked to him about it.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 与他谈论了此事。
The guy doing this running around in circles, he's nine years old.
做这件事的家伙九岁了。
And I know him because I live with him.
我认识他是因为我和他住在一起。
My son, Max, started doing this early in the pandemic.
我的儿子马克斯在疫情爆发初期就开始这样做。
Max was one of those kids where virtual school was really impossible.
马克斯是那些根本不可能上虚拟学校的孩子之一。
All those faces and little boxes on the screen, he just could not focus or stay with it.
屏幕上所有的面孔和小方框，他就是无法集中注意力或停留在其中。
His handwriting was crazy.
他的笔迹很疯狂。
He sometimes struggled to read his own name.
有时他很难读懂自己的名字。
At some point, we realized he didn't know the months of the year.
在某个时候，我们意识到他不知道一年中的月份。
He had big hills to climb.
他还有大山要爬。
I worried.
我担心。
One day, he hit on this idea of running loops around the block.
有一天，他突发奇想，绕着街区跑一圈。
We live on a weird lollipop of a street, so these were actual loops he was running, around and around.
我们住在一条奇怪的棒棒糖街道上，所以这些都是他跑来跑去的实际循环。
The neighbors told us he was sometimes the only other person they would see during the day.
邻居们告诉我们，有时他是他们白天唯一能见到的人。
One time, an older man came out and gave him cookies.
有一次，一位年长的男子出来给他饼干。
The running around seemed to settle his mind in a way I did not fully understand.
跑来跑去似乎以一种我不完全理解的方式安定了他的心。
Virtual school was tears and frustration, but running these loops reset him somehow.
虚拟学校充满了泪水和挫败感，但运行这些循环不知何故让他重新定位。
It was more than just getting exercise.
这不仅仅是锻炼身体。
I could see him talking to himself as he went by, but I had no idea what he was saying.
我看到他走过时自言自语，但我不知道他在说什么。
He's been doing it for years now, sometimes several times a day.
他这样做已经很多年了，有时一天好几次。
"I'm going for a run around the block.
“我要绕着街区跑步。
Sound of door closing, and then he'll be gone, sometimes for 20 minutes.
关门的声音，然后他就会消失，有时会消失 20 分钟。
He's done it first thing in the morning, right out of bed, when it's still dark.
他早上起来第一件事就是做这件事，天还黑的时候。
He does it in the rain-- annoyingly, never with a raincoat.
他在雨中做这件事——令人恼火的是，他从不穿雨衣。
I pile towels by the door.
我把毛巾堆在门边。
He'll change clothes, but then an hour later, go out again.
他会换衣服，但一小时后又出去。
He did it when it was -22 wind chill.
他在-22度风寒时做到了这一点。
I wanted to eavesdrop on one of these runs to hear what he was saying.
我想偷听其中一次跑步，听听他在说什么。
Something going on out there was helping him.
外面发生的事情正在帮助他。
I wanted to understand his brain.
我想了解他的大脑。
So I had this idea of pinning a small microphone on him.
所以我就有了给他戴一个小麦克风的想法。
He was not into it.
他不感兴趣。
"Max, want to wear this microphone when you run around the block?" Max-- "Next time!" Me-- "Max, I only want you to do this if you want to." Max-- "Not now." And so on.
“Max，当你绕着街区跑步时想戴上这个麦克风吗？”麦克斯——“下次！”我——“麦克斯，如果你愿意的话，我只希望你这么做。”麦克斯——“现在不行。”等等。
But I know how to work a reluctant source.
但我知道如何与不情愿的消息来源打交道。
I got him after a run one evening.
一天晚上跑步后我找到了他。
It was dark and raining.
天黑了，还下着雨。
He agreed to a brief interview
他同意接受简短采访
I don't know anything about running.
我对跑步一无所知。
Don't ask me any more questions.
不要再问我任何问题了。
It's not an interrogation.
这不是审讯。
Max Yeah, it is.
麦克斯 是的，确实如此。
I'm tied to a metal chair.
我被绑在一把金属椅子上。
Uh, you're just holding your hands behind your back as if you're tied to a metal chair.
呃，你只是把手放在背后，就像被绑在金属椅子上一样。
It counts.
这很重要。
David Kestenbaum Do you remember the joke you told me the other day about ADHD?
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 你还记得前几天给我讲的关于多动症的笑话吗？
What does ADHD stand for?
多动症代表什么？
Do you ever feel like that in your head?
你的脑海里有过这样的感觉吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Like, distracted while doing something.
就像做某事时分心一样。
And when you're running, does that ever happen?
当你跑步时，这种情况会发生吗？
No. I'm focused on my running and my story, that's it.
不，我专注于我的跑步和我的故事，仅此而已。
A story.
一个故事。
That's what's going on in his head out there, going around and around.
这就是他脑子里正在发生的事情，一圈又一圈。
He's telling himself a story.
他正在给自己讲一个故事。
That's what the running unleashed.
这就是跑步所释放出来的。
I can remember the first story I ever had.
我还记得我听过的第一个故事。
It's pretty much just a little chicken, a little duck, and they were literally friends.
它几乎只是一只小鸡，一只小鸭子，他们实际上是朋友。
And they waddled around.
他们摇摇晃晃地走来走去。
The stories have changed as he's gotten older.
随着他年龄的增长，故事也发生了变化。
Did you have a story in your head just now?
刚才你脑子里有故事吗？
Yeah.
是的。
There was this big, red monster.
有一个巨大的红色怪物。
Like, imagine a human, then imagine him completely ash.
就像，想象一个人，然后想象他完全化为灰烬。
Like, just ash.
就像，只是灰烬。
It was interesting to hear this.
听到这个很有趣。
It has an attention to detail that is sometimes not present in other parts of his life.
它对细节的关注有时在他生活的其他方面是不存在的。
Then imagine a little red tinge coming off him.
然后想象一下他身上散发出一点红色。
He's like a fire person.
他就像一个火人。
His hair's on fire.
他的头发着火了。
His eyes are red, like fire.
他的眼睛红红的，像火一样。
He told me another one that was like pieces of the world had lodged in his head and recombined.
他告诉我另一件事，就像世界的碎片在他的脑海中重新组合。
This one violated multiple copyrights.
这侵犯了多项版权。
The Avengers were in it, but then also Spaceman Spiff from "Calvin and Hobbes." And also, somehow--
复仇者联盟也在其中，还有《卡尔文与霍布斯》中的太空人斯皮夫。而且，不知何故——
I was pretending to be Arthur Dent, I think.
我想我是在假装是阿瑟·登特。
Yeah, Arthur Dent.
是的，阿瑟·登特。
From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
出自《银河系漫游指南》。
What do you think it is about running and a story that is calming?
你认为这是一个关于跑步和平静的故事吗？
Are you thinking about a story, like, all day long, kind of?
你是否整天都在思考一个故事？
All day.
一整天。
I run and wander during recess.
我在课间休息时跑步、闲逛。
And the thing-- and I usually-- sometimes I play with my friends, and sometimes I wander around, thinking about it.
事情——我通常——有时我和朋友们一起玩，有时我四处闲逛，思考它。
But yeah.
但是是的。
That's kind of amazing.
这真是太神奇了。
I didn't know that.
我不知道。
Hm.
嗯。
David Kestenbaum Could you think of the story if you were just staying in the house?
David Kestenbaum 如果你只是待在房子里，你能想象这个故事吗？
Yeah, I could, but it's harder.
是的，我可以，但是更难。
I could think of one, but it's harder.
我可以想到一个，但是比较难。
Why do you think it's easier when you're running around the block?
为什么你认为绕着街区跑会更容易？
Uh, I don't know.
呃，我不知道。
Because-- maybe because I'm moving.
因为——也许是因为我要搬家了。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
That's been a strange thing where, if I'm moving, it's completely fine.
这是一件奇怪的事情，如果我搬家，那就完全没问题。
I have to move to see it.
我必须移动才能看到它。
But if I'm standing still, it's really hard.
但如果我站着不动，那真的很难。
It's funny that you're just running in circles, you know?
有趣的是你只是在原地打转，知道吗？
Yeah.
是的。
David Kestenbaum Like, you're not going anywhere.
David Kestenbaum 就像，你哪儿也去不了。
Well, in my head, I am.
嗯，在我的脑海里，我是。
In my head, I am.
在我的脑海里，我是。
I outsmarted you.
我比你聪明。
[GIGGLING]
[咯咯笑]
What did you say?
你说什么？
Max I outsmarted you, Daddy.
麦克斯 我比你聪明，爸爸。
The philosopher, Thomas Nagel, once wrote an essay titled, "What Is It Like to Be a Bat?" Apparently, he had bats in his house, and he wondered if it was possible to truly know what it was like to be a bat, to have webbing on your arms, to perceive the world with sonar, to hang upside down in the attic.
哲学家托马斯·内格尔曾经写过一篇题为“成为一只蝙蝠是什么感觉？”的文章。显然，他家里养着蝙蝠，他想知道是否有可能真正了解作为一只蝙蝠的感觉，手臂上有蹼，用声纳感知世界，倒挂在阁楼上。
His answer was, no, you could not know the mind of such a creature.
他的回答是，不，你无法知道这样一个生物的想法。
OK, should we go?
好吧，我们该走了吗？
David Kestenbaum Yeah, go.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 是的，走吧。
OK, bye.
好的，再见。
David Kestenbaum Max did finally agree to let me put a mic on him while he ran around the block.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·马克斯最终同意让我在他绕着街区跑的时候给他戴上麦克风。
It was like I was right there with him.
就好像我就在他身边。
He was battling some invisible monster.
他正在与某种看不见的怪物战斗。
I'll be fine.
我会没事的。
David Kestenbaum "I'll be fine." "I'll be fine," he says.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆“我会没事的。” “我会没事的，”他说。
Those cuts are deep.
这些伤口很深。
David Kestenbaum "Those cuts are deep."
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆（David Kestenbaum）“那些伤口很深。”
It's fine.
没关系。
David Kestenbaum "It's fine." You're right, Max.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆“没关系。”你是对的，麦克斯。
It is.
是的。
Ira Glass David Kestenbaum is our show's senior editor.
Ira Glass David Kestenbaum 是我们节目的高级编辑。
Act Three: Americans Most Wanted Ira Glass Act Three, "Americans Most Wanted." So we now turn to criminals trying to give the runaround to the police.
第三幕：美国人头号通缉 艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕，“美国人头号通缉”。因此，我们现在转向试图逃避警察的犯罪分子。
And in this case, choosing a route that you see now and then in the movies, they escape to Mexico.
在这种情况下，他们选择了电影中时不时看到的路线，逃往墨西哥。
That's right, across the border to start a new life in a country where they think that they're going to be safe.
没错，跨越边境，在一个他们认为安全的国家开始新的生活。
So many people do this.
很多人都这样做。
In fact, the numbers are on the rise.
事实上，这个数字正在上升。
The Mexican police formed a special elite unit whose only mandate is to catch these fugitives.
墨西哥警方组建了一支特别精锐部队，其唯一任务就是抓捕这些逃犯。
The unit's based in Baja California, just south of San Diego.
该部门总部位于圣地亚哥南部的下加利福尼亚州。
They work with tips they get from the FBI and US Marshals.
他们根据从联邦调查局和美国法警那里获得的线索进行工作。
They are called the Gringo Hunters.
他们被称为“外国佬猎人”。
Kevin Sieff is a reporter for the Washington Post.
凯文·西夫是《华盛顿邮报》的记者。
He hung out with them as they ran around trying to snag fugitives.
当他们四处奔走试图抓捕逃犯时，他和他们一起出去玩。
The cops in this special unit find the gringos everywhere-- in beach resorts, at a nightclub, called Papas & Beer, in cars with sex workers, in Carl's Jr parking lots.
这个特别部门的警察到处都能找到外国佬——在海滩度假村、在一家名为 Papas & Beer 的夜总会、在载有性工作者的汽车里、在 Carl's Jr 停车场。
Some had undergone plastic surgery and acquired new names they couldn't pronounce.
有些人接受了整容手术，并获得了他们不会发音的新名字。
Some were found dead.
有些人被发现死亡。
They were former Playboy models, amateur surfers, ex-Navy officers.
他们是前《花花公子》模特、业余冲浪者、前海军军官。
Most of them are alleged serious criminals-- rapists, pedophiles, murderers.
他们中的大多数被指控为严重罪犯——强奸犯、恋童癖者、杀人犯。
The cops have become used to the way American fugitives saunter across the border, expecting that they won't be found.
警察已经习惯了美国逃犯漫步穿过边境的方式，希望他们不会被发现。
Here's Moises.
这是莫伊塞斯。
He was the head of the unit when I was there.
我在那儿的时候他是单位的领导。
He's proud of his work, but he gets that it can be kind of funny sometimes.
他为自己的工作感到自豪，但他知道有时这可能有点有趣。
There's many Americans, I think, that, like in the cartoons and in the movies, that Mexico-- oh, yeah, everybody there has boots and hat and is on a horse or on a donkey.
我想，有很多美国人，就像动画片和电影中那样，墨西哥——哦，是的，那里的每个人都穿着靴子和帽子，骑着马或骑着驴。
And so then they think, I can go and hide there.
于是他们想，我可以去那里躲起来。
And I mean, they-- when they come here to Mexico and they see, no, this is-- here's a city.
我的意思是，当他们来到墨西哥时，他们看到，不，这是——这是一座城市。
I mean, it's a big city.
我的意思是，这是一个大城市。
And it's even better.
甚至更好。
I'll hide, and the police will never find me.
我会躲起来，警察永远找不到我。
And when they least expect it, boom, there we are, right in front of them.
当他们最意想不到的时候，繁荣，我们就在他们面前。
Moises has been doing the job for 12 years.
Moises 从事这项工作已经 12 年了。
Hanging out with him, he's like an encyclopedia of gringo fugitives.
和他在一起，他就像一部外国逃亡者的百科全书。
A lot of the gringos, he tells me, are white guys who think they can make a go of hiding on the coast, blending in with tourists, but they can't.
他告诉我，很多外国佬都是白人，他们认为自己可以躲在海岸上，与游客混在一起，但他们做不到。
The way they dress, the way they walk, the way they express themselves is totally different.
他们的穿着方式、走路方式、表达自己的方式都完全不同。
The t-shirts are different.
T恤不一样。
If they're wearing shorts, the shorts are different, totally different.
如果他们穿短裤，短裤就会不一样，完全不一样。
Even the shoes are totally different.
就连鞋子也完全不同。
One officer told me the Americans wear flip-flops that are one size too big, usually with socks.
一位军官告诉我，美国人穿大一号的人字拖，通常还搭配袜子。
Then there are the Mexican-American fugitives who are still such obvious gringos to Moises and the other cops.
还有墨西哥裔美国逃犯，对于莫伊塞斯和其他警察来说，他们仍然是明显的外国佬。
They're born in the US.
他们出生在美国。
They have family in Mexico, but they can never totally blend in either.
他们在墨西哥有家人，但他们永远无法完全融入其中。
Something about them is eventually going to betray them as American.
他们身上的某些东西最终会背叛他们作为美国人的身份。
That's the kind of fugitive they were chasing when I was with them, a Mexican-American guy named Damion Salinas.
当我和他们在一起时，他们正在追捕的就是这种逃犯，一个名叫达米恩·萨利纳斯的墨西哥裔美国人。
He's 20 years old from Fresno, California.
他今年 20 岁，来自加利福尼亚州弗雷斯诺。
Back in 2020, Salinas had allegedly murdered another man at the scene of a traffic accident.
早在 2020 年，萨利纳斯据称在一场交通事故现场谋杀了另一名男子。
The killing was shocking, seemingly unprovoked, a gunshot at point-blank range.
这起杀戮令人震惊，似乎是无缘无故的，近距离的枪响。
The victim was a 36-year-old mechanic named Joshua Thao.
受害者是一名 36 岁的机械师，名叫 Joshua Thao。
He was like a father to his nieces and nephews, his sister said.
他的姐姐说，他就像侄女和侄子的父亲一样。
Right before he was shot, witnesses said, he shook the murderer's hand, trying to calm tempers.
目击者称，就在他被枪杀之前，他握着凶手的手，试图平息怒火。
After the shooting, Salinas vanished.
枪击事件发生后，萨利纳斯失踪了。
There were no leads.
没有任何线索。
He'd been a fugitive for almost two years.
他已经逃亡了近两年了。
Now, suddenly, there was new intel.
现在，突然间，有了新的情报。
Salinas was supposedly here in Ensenada, about an hour and a half south of the border, cutting hair at a barbershop.
萨利纳斯据称当时在距离边境以南约一个半小时车程的恩塞纳达港的一家理发店理发。
Abigail, one of the unit's officers, was leading the planning.
该部队的一名军官阿比盖尔负责领导该计划。
They didn't have a search warrant, so they were going to have to find a way to lure Salinas outside.
他们没有搜查令，所以他们得想办法把萨利纳斯引到外面。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Maybe if their car is outside, we can be, like-- maybe, like, find a way to be like, oh, you got a flat tire or something.
也许如果他们的车在外面，我们可以，就像——也许，就像，找到一种方式，就像，哦，你的轮胎瘪了或者什么的。
Could you come out?
你能出来吗？
I think your car has a flat tire.
我认为你的车轮胎漏气了。
And then when they go out, that's when we get them.
然后当他们出去的时候，我们就得到他们。
We've done that before.
我们以前就这么做过。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff Abigail is the only woman on the team.
[西班牙语] 凯文·西耶夫·阿比盖尔是团队中唯一的女性。
You'd think she's the boss, even though she's not.
你会认为她是老板，尽管她不是。
She's on her phone constantly, pumping her sources and colleagues for more and better intel.
她不断地打电话，向消息来源和同事寻求更多更好的情报。
That's what she was doing during the Salinas case, shouting a stream of questions into her phone.
这就是她在萨利纳斯案中所做的，对着手机大声提问。
Did Salinas have any connection to Mexico?
萨利纳斯与墨西哥有联系吗？
Who was he living with?
他和谁住在一起？
Where was he getting his money from?
他的钱从哪里来？
She paused at one point to catch her breath.
她一度停下来喘口气。
"Sorry," she said to her colleague.
“抱歉，”她对同事说。
"It's a murder case, so it's a little bit urgent."
“这是一起谋杀案，所以有点紧急。”
We get to the barbershop.
我们到达理发店。
Abigail and her colleague, Ivan, scope it out from the front seat.
阿比盖尔和她的同事伊万在前座观察情况。
Ivan is a former bodyguard.
伊万是一名前保镖。
He's the one on the team most likely to show up with a six pack after a big win.
他是球队中最有可能在一场大胜后展现出六块腹肌的人。
He gets a text.
他收到一条短信。
There's intel from the US Marshals.
有来自美国法警的情报。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Abigail [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 阿比盖尔 [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff It was a new tip.
[说西班牙语] Kevin Sieff 这是一个新技巧。
They're sending us to another barbershop, Ivan says.
“他们要送我们去另一家理发店，”伊万说。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ivan [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 伊万 [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff It sounds like Salinas is in Tijuana, about an hour north.
[说西班牙语] Kevin Sieff 听起来萨利纳斯在蒂华纳，向北大约一小时车程。
So Abigail floors it along the highway that traces the Pacific Ocean, driving close to 100 miles an hour.
于是阿比盖尔沿着太平洋的高速公路行驶，行驶速度接近每小时 100 英里。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff Signs of the gringo presence are everywhere, big billboards in English that say things like "Invest In Your New Ocean View House." Another said "Thong and Tequila Party." In some ways, this part of Mexico seems perfect for Americans trying to disappear.
[说西班牙语] Kevin Sieff 外国佬存在的迹象随处可见，英文的大广告牌上写着“投资你的新海景房”之类的东西。另一个说“丁字裤和龙舌兰酒派对”。从某些方面来说，墨西哥的这一地区对于试图消失的美国人来说似乎是完美的。
But Abigail has become a pro at drawing them out.
但阿比盖尔已经成为吸引他们的专家。
She told me earlier that morning about one of her new strategies.
那天早上早些时候，她告诉我她的一项新策略。
She's created a bunch of fake Facebook accounts using stock photos of attractive women that she uses to catfish fugitives.
她使用漂亮女性的库存照片创建了一堆虚假 Facebook 帐户，并用这些照片来抓捕逃犯。
One guy had actually posted on a Facebook group looking to meet people.
实际上，有一个人在 Facebook 群组上发帖寻求结识新朋友。
He even used his real name.
他甚至用了自己的真名。
He wanted to smoke some weed, and he wanted to smoke it with me, and stay overnight at my place, and have a crazy night.
他想抽一些大麻，他想和我一起抽，然后在我家过夜，度过一个疯狂的夜晚。
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter So yeah, he brought his little suitcase with his clothes, and he thought he was going to stay with me for a few days, all, like, washed up and cologned.
[说西班牙语] 口译员所以是的，他带着他的小手提箱和衣服，他以为他要和我呆几天，所有的一切，就像，洗干净并喷上古龙香水。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Officer [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 官员 [说西班牙语]
[LAUGHTER] Kevin Sieff Another cop from the unit cuts in and starts to troll Abigail.
[笑声]凯文·西夫 (Kevin Sieff) 该队的另一名警察插话并开始恶搞阿比盖尔。
"Sometimes they arrive stinky," he says.
“有时它们到达时会发臭，”他说。
"It's so you don't have to struggle with the stinky perp, right?" he says.
“这样你就不用再跟臭流氓纠缠了，对吧？”他说。
"You just want to deliver them nice and clean, no fuss, back to the gringos."
“你只是想把它们干净整洁地送回外国佬那里，不要大惊小怪。”
Abigail grew up in Tijuana, secretly dreaming of becoming a police officer.
阿比盖尔在蒂华纳长大，内心梦想成为一名警察。
Her mother begged her not to.
她的母亲恳求她不要这样做。
Being a cop was dangerous.
当警察是很危险的。
But she says she was born to do the job.
但她说她生来就是为了做这份工作。
Abigail waited until her own daughter was a little over two, and then she signed up.
阿比盖尔等到她自己的女儿两岁多一点，然后她就报名了。
The stakes feel so high to her.
她觉得赌注如此之大。
The gringos coming across, they could just repeat their crimes on her side of the border.
外国佬过来了，他们可以在她这边的边境重复他们的罪行。
She told me about the case of a pedophile who fled the US.
她告诉我一个逃离美国的恋童癖者的案例。
He moved into a house near a Tijuana elementary school where he was getting ready to look for more kids to abuse.
他搬进了蒂华纳一所小学附近的一所房子，准备在那里寻找更多的孩子来虐待。
She was like, if we don't catch this guy today, who knows what he'll do here in Mexico?
她说，如果我们今天不抓到这个人，谁知道他会在墨西哥做什么？
When we arrived in Tijuana, we parked across from the second barbershop and Ivan and Abigail began their surveillance.
当我们到达蒂华纳时，我们把车停在第二家理发店对面，伊万和阿比盖尔开始监视。
As always, they work undercover.
一如既往，他们从事卧底工作。
Today, jeans and t-shirts, like two friends headed out for a day at the beach.
今天，牛仔裤和T恤，就像两个朋友去海滩度过了一天。
Abigail bought some nachos from the shop next door, slyly peering into the barber shop.
阿比盖尔从隔壁的商店买了一些玉米片，偷偷地往理发店里看了一眼。
Ivan put on a black backpack and walked by-- disguised, I guess, as a 30-something-year-old student.
伊万背上黑色背包走过——我猜，他伪装成一名 30 多岁的学生。
Then we all settled in the car and got comfortable staring through the windshield.
然后我们都坐进车里，舒服地透过挡风玻璃凝视。
Usually on stakeouts, Ivan is constantly turning up the volume on Bad Bunny.
通常在监视时，伊万都会不断调高“坏兔子”的音量。
Today, he's kind of bragging, showing me dozens of photos of the gringos he's arrested, like a yearbook of American fugitives.
今天，他有点吹牛，给我看了几十张他被捕的外国佬的照片，就像一本美国逃犯年鉴。
Then they get another call.
然后他们又接到一个电话。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff Someone has left the apartment above the barbershop.
[西班牙语] Kevin Sieff 有人离开了理发店楼上的公寓。
The person got into a gold Honda Accord and drove away.
那人钻进一辆金色本田雅阁开走了。
One of the agents says over the radio, "I think it's Salinas." Then they take off, cutting across four lanes of traffic.
一名特工通过无线电说道：“我认为是萨利纳斯。”然后他们起飞，穿过四个车道。
Abigail cuts off the Honda and they surround the car.
阿比盖尔切断了本田汽车的路，他们包围了汽车。
I'm watching them approach the car and this is kind of a scary moment.
我看着他们接近汽车，这是一个可怕的时刻。
Only a few weeks before, the cops had been in a shootout with a fugitive from California.
就在几周前，警察与一名来自加利福尼亚州的逃犯发生了枪战。
Moises and Ivan got shot.
莫伊塞斯和伊万被枪杀。
The team told me that they were worried that Salinas too might come out shooting if he was cornered.
团队告诉我，他们担心如果萨利纳斯被逼到绝境，他也可能会投篮。
I watch them pull a skinny guy out of the driver's seat and push him against the car.
我看着他们把一个瘦子从驾驶座上拉出来，把他推到车上。
He didn't look to me like the guy I'd seen in the Most Wanted posters.
在我看来，他不像我在头号通缉海报上看到的那个人。
Then they take his wallet from his back pocket.
然后他们从他后面的口袋里拿走了他的钱包。
There's a California driver's license with the name Damion Salinas.
有一张加州驾照，名字叫达米恩·萨利纳斯 (Damion Salinas)。
They get out their handcuffs.
他们解开了手铐。
What's your name?
你叫什么名字？
Damion Salinas Damion.
达米恩·萨利纳斯 达米恩.
Damion, OK.
达米安，好的。
Do you have other ID?
你还有其他身份证吗？
Only have this?
只有这个吗？
Only that, so.
仅此而已。
It's valid.
这是有效的。
Officer 1 You have something you might-- in the car?
警官 1 你可能有东西在车里？
Drugs?
毒品？
Damion Salinas No. [SPEAKING SPANISH]
达米恩·萨利纳斯 (Damion Salinas) 号 [西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Kevin Sieff Even after all the build up, there was still something startling about seeing the cops catch their fugitive.
[西班牙语] 凯文·西夫 即使在一切准备就绪之后，看到警察抓获逃犯仍然令人震惊。
It was surreal.
这太超现实了。
They start figuring out logistics.
他们开始考虑物流问题。
Who's going to take the gold Honda?
谁将获得金色本田？
Salinas seems confused.
萨利纳斯似乎很困惑。
He starts saying, "I will go--" And that's when Abigail interrupts him.
他开始说，“我会去——”就在这时，阿比盖尔打断了他。
"No, you're coming with us."
“不用了，你跟我们一起去吧。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Abigail [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 阿比盖尔 [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Abigail [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 阿比盖尔 [说西班牙语]
Salinas doesn't put up a fight.
萨利纳斯没有反抗。
They stick him in the backseat of the car, and I ask if I can sit next to him to ask a few questions.
他们把他放在车后座上，我问我是否可以坐在他旁边问一些问题。
They say sure, but they put the biggest cop in the unit between us, in case Salinas lunges at me.
他们说当然可以，但他们把单位里最大的警察放在我们之间，以防萨利纳斯向我扑来。
But he doesn't.
但他没有。
He looks like he'd just woken up from a nap.
他看起来像是刚刚从午睡中醒来。
Yeah, I'm not a-- just to be clear, I'm not a law enforcement official.
是的，我不是——只是澄清一下，我不是执法官员。
I'm-- I'm a journalist.
我是——我是一名记者。
What are you again?
你又是什么？
Kevin Sieff I'm a journalist.
凯文·西夫 我是一名记者。
It's interesting, sometimes.
有时这很有趣。
This whole day, I'd been wondering, what is this guy going to be like?
一整天，我都在想，这个人会是什么样子？
How had he evaded authorities for almost two years?
他是如何逃避当局近两年的？
I think I'd been expecting an angry, sophisticated criminal.
我想我一直在等待一个愤怒而老练的罪犯。
This guy, after all, was being accused of homicide.
毕竟，这个家伙被指控犯有杀人罪。
But Salinas is like a kid trying to disguise himself as a man.
但萨利纳斯就像一个试图把自己伪装成男人的孩子。
His mustache is wispy.
他的胡子稀疏。
He's wearing Air Jordan sandals with socks.
他穿着 Air Jordan 凉鞋和袜子。
"Forever West Coast" was tattooed on his right arm.
他的右臂上纹着“永远的西海岸”。
I'm a good dude, man.
我是个好人，伙计。
Kevin Sieff He keeps saying how nervous he is, but then he spins a tale about how he'd only been caught because he let his guard down.
凯文·西夫（Kevin Sieff） 他一直说自己有多紧张，但随后他编造了一个故事，说自己只是因为放松警惕才被抓的。
Why didn't you try to go further into Mexico?
你为什么不尝试进一步深入墨西哥？
Like, you stayed so close to the border.
就像，你离边境太近了。
Well, I mean, I'm not a dumbass though.
好吧，我的意思是，我不是个傻瓜。
I know why they caught me.
我知道他们为什么抓我。
I just stopped trying after a while, you know?
一段时间后我就不再尝试了，你知道吗？
Things got-- you know?
事情变得——你知道吗？
The cops are not really that smart, you know?
警察其实没那么聪明，你知道吗？
So every place they hit, I was right-- I was always watching them.
所以他们击中的每一个地方，我都是对的——我一直在看着他们。
I watched them like they watched me.
我看着他们就像他们看着我一样。
And after a while, I just gave up.
过了一段时间，我就放弃了。
I was like, fuck it.
我当时想，操他妈的。
Why'd you give up?
你为什么放弃？
Damion Salinas I was just going through a lot, you know, being alone and shit, the depression.
达米安·萨利纳斯（Damion Salinas）我刚刚经历了很多，你知道，孤独和沮丧。
Yeah.
是的。
Damion Salinas You know, PTSD kicks in, all kinds of shit, so.
达米恩·萨利纳斯（Damion Salinas）你知道，创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）开始出现，各种各样的狗屎，所以。
So you basically were like-- resigned yourself to getting caught.
所以你基本上就像——听天由命地被抓住。
Almost wanted to get caught, it sounds like.
听起来差点就想被抓住。
Abigail weaves through Tijuana traffic with the siren on.
阿比盖尔拉着警笛穿过提华纳的车流。
We're headed to the border to hand Salinas over to US authorities.
我们正前往边境，将萨利纳斯移交给美国当局。
And then Ivan puts on "Gangsta's Paradise" and turns up the volume.
然后伊万播放“黑帮天堂”并调高音量。
He tells me, "Ask him if he's a rapper."
他告诉我，“问问他是不是说唱歌手。”
Are you a rapper?
你是说唱歌手吗？
Or were you ever a rapper?
或者你曾经是说唱歌手吗？
Yeah, I like rap.
是的，我喜欢说唱。
Kevin Sieff [SPEAKING SPANISH]
凯文·西耶夫 [西班牙语]
You have a song?
你有一首歌吗？
Kevin Sieff Have you ever sung a song?
凯文·西夫 你唱过歌吗？
Nah, no. I never.
不，不。我从来没有。
Kevin Sieff And then they pull up a video on Ivan's cell phone.
Kevin Sieff：然后他们在 Ivan 的手机上调出一段视频。
It's a video of Salinas rapping, taken from his social media.
这是萨利纳斯说唱的视频，取自他的社交媒体。
Kevin Sieff Why-- why did you lie and say you didn't have a song if you had a song?
凯文·西夫（Kevin Sieff）：为什么——如果你有一首歌，你为什么要撒谎说你没有一首歌？
I'm not getting embarrassed, man.
我不会感到尴尬，伙计。
That's why.
这就是原因。
Salinas seems calm at this point.
萨利纳斯此时显得平静。
Abigail parks the car at the border and the Mexican police march Salinas past a long line of people, the daily border crossers and migrants who are waiting to enter the US on foot.
阿比盖尔把车停在边境，墨西哥警察押着萨利纳斯驶过一长串人，这些人是每天的过境者和等待步行进入美国的移民。
They crane their necks to look at the American fugitive.
他们伸长脖子看着美国逃亡者。
A small group of uniformed US officials is standing at the border.
一小群身穿制服的美国官员站在边境。
One of the agents bends his knees in a blocker's position, as if Salinas might make a run for it.
一名特工弯曲膝盖，摆出阻挡者的姿势，仿佛萨利纳斯可能会逃跑。
Yeah, we know.
是的，我们知道。
We know all about it, so.
我们都知道这一切，所以。
We got-- we got the phone calls.
我们接到电话。
You guys want to bring him?
你们想带他来吗？
Come on in.
进来吧。
All right, thanks, man.
好的，谢谢，伙计。
He's coming with us.
他和我们一起来。
The Mexican police take off the Mexican handcuffs and the Americans put on American cuffs.
墨西哥警察摘下墨西哥手铐，美国人戴上美国手铐。
It feels almost ceremonial.
感觉几乎是仪式感。
The arrest is done, the gringo is back in gringo hands.
逮捕结束了，外国佬又回到了外国佬手中。
I watched the Gringo Hunters walk back from the border to their car.
我看着外国佬猎人从边境走回他们的车上。
They had just arrested an alleged murderer.
他们刚刚逮捕了一名涉嫌杀人的凶手。
I look for some kind of reaction.
我寻找某种反应。
I'm not sure what, exactly-- a high five, a look of accomplishment, but there was almost nothing.
我不确定到底是什么——高五，一脸成就感，但几乎什么也没有。
The unit chases and catches so many gringos that Salinas was just another name on their list.
该部队追捕并抓获了如此多的外国佬，萨利纳斯只是他们名单上的另一个名字。
They already had their next day's assignment-- a woman had kidnapped and drugged a child.
他们已经有了第二天的任务——一个女人绑架了一个孩子并给他下药。
They too were likely living in Tijuana.
他们也可能住在蒂华纳。
A few weeks after the Salinas chase, I was talking to Moises, the head of the Gringo Hunters, and he told me this thing.
萨利纳斯追逐赛几周后，我与外国佬猎人队的负责人莫伊塞斯交谈，他告诉了我这件事。
He said that sometimes he's hanging out with his friends who are not cops, and he gets this feeling that I think cops everywhere get, that regular people just don't know how many bad guys are out there.
他说，有时他和不是警察的朋友一起出去玩，他有一种我想世界各地的警察都会有的感觉，普通人就是不知道外面有多少坏人。
They don't know how scary it can feel to chase fugitive Americans day in and day out.
他们不知道日复一日地追捕逃亡的美国人有多可怕。
What I do is so that, right now, you guys can all be hanging out here comfortably.
我所做的就是让你们现在都能在这里舒适地闲逛。
Because if we didn't do it, we'd be surrounded by all these kind of people.
因为如果我们不这样做，我们就会被这些人包围。
Like, we wouldn't be able to just hang out in the afternoons and the evenings, because we'd just be looking over our shoulder.
就像，我们不能只在下午和晚上出去玩，因为我们只能回头看。
Because we've caught an infinite number of Americans, eh?
因为我们抓到了无数美国人，是吗？
I've participated in, I don't know, around 1,300, 1,200 fugitive arrests.
我不知道，我参与了大约 1,300、1,200 名逃犯的逮捕行动。
I mean, that's a lot of fugitives we've arrested.
我的意思是，我们逮捕了很多逃犯。
That's two or three per week, 140, 150 a year, per year.
每周 2 到 3 个，每年 140、150 个，每年。
And it never ends, right?
而且它永远不会结束，对吧？
They just keep on coming.
他们只是不断地来。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, they just keep on coming.
是的，他们只是继续来。
They keep on coming.
他们继续来。
And I mean, there are times when things slow down, but then suddenly it's like-- like they all agree to come across at the same time.
我的意思是，有时候事情会慢下来，但突然之间就像他们都同意同时遇到一样。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I like to say that they all came on the same bus or something.
我想说他们都乘坐同一辆公共汽车或其他什么东西来的。
Moises doesn't come out and say it, but chasing American fugitives all day, it has shaped how he sees the United States.
莫伊塞斯没有站出来说出来，但整天追捕美国逃犯，这塑造了他对美国的看法。
Part of the problem, he says, is that in the US, it's so easy to get a gun.
他说，部分问题在于，在美国，很容易获得枪支。
On some of his trips there, it seemed like everyone was armed.
在他去那里的一些旅行中，似乎每个人都携带武器。
As we talked, it struck me that he'd come to see Mexico as being in a perilous position, bordering this heavily-armed, crime-infested nation.
当我们交谈时，我突然意识到，他开始认为墨西哥处于危险境地，与这个全副武装、犯罪猖獗的国家接壤。
I had heard that tone before.
我以前听过这种语气。
He spoke with a very real fear and perhaps a little bit of hysteria, the same way I've heard so many Americans talk about a lawless Mexico.
他说话时带着一种非常真实的恐惧，也许还有一点歇斯底里，就像我听到很多美国人谈论无法无天的墨西哥一样。
Ira Glass Kevin Sieff of the Washington Post.
《华盛顿邮报》的艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 凯文·西耶夫 (Kevin Sieff)。
He also did a print version of this story with pictures that you can find online at the Post website.
他还为这个故事制作了印刷版，并附有图片，您可以在《华盛顿邮报》网站上在线找到这些图片。
The story was produced by Nadia Reiman.
这个故事由纳迪亚·雷曼制作。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Chris Benderev.
图片来源：Ira Glass 嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Chris Benderev 制作的。
The people who put our show together today includes Elna Baker, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Aviva DeKornfeld, Bethel Habte, Cassie Howley, Valerie Kipnis, Alaa Mostafa, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Laura Starcheski, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Elna Baker、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Andrea Lopez Cruzado、Aviva DeKornfeld、Bethel Habte、Cassie Howley、Valerie Kipnis、Alaa Mostafa、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Laura Starcheski、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
The voice actors in the Gringo Hunter story were Luis Bordonada and Chelsea Rendon.
《外国佬猎人》故事中的配音演员是路易斯·博多纳达和切尔西·伦登。
Special thanks today to Deborah Harris, Kimi Yoshino, Susan Davis, Patrick Creamer, Matt Bonaccorsi, Caitlyn Hodgkins, Nate Cross, Benjamin Kowalski, Nina Reinhardt, Kim McBride, Marc Butakis, Luke Vander Ploeg, Sabrina Hyman, and Fernando Monroy.
今天特别感谢 Deborah Harris、Kimi Yoshino、Susan Davis、Patrick Creamer、Matt Bonaccorsi、Caitlyn Hodgkins、Nate Cross、Benjamin Kowalski、Nina Reinhardt、Kim McBride、Marc Butakis、Luke Vander Ploeg、Sabrina Hyman 和 Fernando Monroy。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 750 多集档案。
Also, there's videos There's also lists of favorite shows to listen to, tons of other stuff-- thisamericanlife.org.
此外，还有视频、最喜欢听的节目列表以及大量其他内容 - thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he tried to give me his recipe for turducken.
你知道，他试图给我他的火鸭食谱。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I just don't think he got it right.
我只是不认为他做对了。
It's pretty much just a little chicken, a little duck, and they were literally friends.
它几乎只是一只小鸡，一只小鸭子，他们实际上是朋友。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。