781: Watching the Watchers - This American Life
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Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass OK, so we're going to start this week's show with something that's been going on behind the scenes of this year's midterm election.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 好的，我们将以今年中期选举幕后发生的事情开始本周的节目。
It's called the precinct strategy.
这就是所谓的区域策略。
This is something that's been around for a while, but it wasn't a big thing until last year when Steve Bannon-- remember, Steve Bannon?-- got a hold of the idea and started pushing it on his podcast.
这件事已经存在了一段时间了，但直到去年史蒂夫·班农（Steve Bannon）——还记得吗？史蒂夫·班农（Steve Bannon）——抓住了这个想法并开始在他的播客上推广之前，这并不是一件大事。
So, Dan, the floor is yours.
所以，丹，地板是你的。
You're about to offer a course on personal political empowerment.
您将开设一门有关个人政治赋权的课程。
How did they do it, Dan?
他们是怎么做到的，丹？
This right here is the video that started it off.
这是开始的视频。
It's from February 2021, just Steve Bannon being the Steve Bannon we've come to know.
从 2021 年 2 月开始，史蒂夫·班农就是我们所认识的史蒂夫·班农。
He's wearing at least three shirts.
他至少穿着三件衬衫。
He's framed by a row of MAGA hats lined up on a mantel.
他的周围是壁炉架上排列着的一排 MAGA 帽子。
And he's bringing on this guest, who is a long time Arizona activist named Dan Schultz.
他带来了这位客人，他是亚利桑那州的一位长期活动家，名叫丹·舒尔茨(Dan Schultz)。
Thanks, Steve.
谢谢，史蒂夫。
It's real simple, and most people learn this-- at least I did-- back in the late '60s, in seventh grade in social studies, in civics class.
这真的很简单，大多数人——至少我是——早在六十年代末，七年级社会研究的公民课上就学会了这一点。
OK, so what he lays out here, the way that Schultz and Bannon see this, the reason that Donald Trump isn't president anymore, it's not just election fraud by the Democrats.
好吧，所以他在这里列出的内容，舒尔茨和班农的看法，唐纳德·特朗普不再担任总统的原因，不仅仅是民主党的选举舞弊。
That's obviously a given for them.
这显然是他们的天职。
But the real problem in 2020 was the Republicans who let them get away with it, who didn't do every last thing in their power to keep President Trump in office.
但 2020 年真正的问题是共和党人让他们侥幸逃脱，他们没有尽一切努力让特朗普总统继续执政。
What they're talking about is the mainstream Republicans in Arizona and Georgia and Michigan, people who went ahead and certified the election results for Joe Biden, accepted that Trump lost, did not stand by him in his neediest hour.
他们谈论的是亚利桑那州、佐治亚州和密歇根州的主流共和党人，他们承认了乔·拜登的选举结果，接受了特朗普失败的事实，并没有在他最需要的时候支持他。
To prevent that from happening again, Dan Schultz and Steve Bannon want an army of MAGA enthusiasts to be in place and be ready for the coming election in just a few weeks.
为了防止这种情况再次发生，丹·舒尔茨和史蒂夫·班农希望一支由 MAGA 爱好者组成的大军就位，为几周后即将到来的选举做好准备。
And they're going to do this by getting people to sign up for the lowest level positions in the Republican Party.
他们将通过让人们报名参加共和党最低级别的职位来做到这一点。
It's a job called precinct committeeman.
这是一个叫做辖区委员的职位。
I've got my PC button on it, precinct committeeman.
我的电脑按钮已经打开了，辖区委员。
Precinct committeemen are the party.
选区委员是政党。
And if you want to put up graphic number four, it basically explains that there's about 400,000 of these party positions in our party nationwide.
如果你想放第四个图表，它基本上说明了我们党在全国范围内大约有 400,000 个这样的党内职位。
But over 200,000 of them are vacant.
但其中有超过20万个是空置的。
What we have to do is, we have to take over the party.
我们要做的就是，我们必须接管党。
And there's only one way to do it.
只有一种方法可以做到这一点。
The precinct committeemen are the party.
选区委员是政党。
Precinct committeemen do all kinds of political grunt work-- door knocking, phone banking, leafleting.
选区委员从事各种政治繁重工作——敲门、电话银行、散发传单。
They often work as official poll watchers on election day for the party.
他们经常在该党选举日担任官方民调观察员。
But in addition, and this might not sound like a big deal but it's key-- they often elect officials higher up in the Republican Party, who elect the officials even higher up than that, who elect the state parties and the national party and decide where GOP is going to spend money and what races to back, they decide the party platform.
但除此之外，这听起来可能不是什么大不了的事，但很关键——他们经常选举共和党内更高的官员，再选举比共和党更高的官员，再选举州党和国家党，决定共和党将钱花在哪里，支持哪些竞选，他们决定政党纲领。
They determine what the party officially stands for.
他们决定该党的正式立场。
These are the jobs at the bottom that Steve Bannon wants to fill with people who believe that the last election was stolen, people who are very excited at the chance to do something, anything to prevent an election from being stolen again.
史蒂夫·班农（Steve Bannon）希望填补这些底层职位的人是那些相信上次选举被窃取的人，这些人对有机会做一些事情、任何事情来防止选举再次被窃取感到非常兴奋。
And Bannon has kept the drumbeat going for months and months to get MAGA Stop the Steal people to sign up for these jobs.
班农几个月来一直在鼓吹，让 MAGA Stop the Steal 的人报名参加这些工作。
For instance, in August, Bannon polled the audience of the Moment of Truth Summit in Missouri, which was hosted by Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy who's turned election conspiracy theorist.
例如，8月份，班农在密苏里州举行的“关键时刻峰会”上对观众进行了民意调查，这次峰会的主持人是迈克·林德尔（Mike Lindell），他是“MyPillow”的创始人，后来成为了选举阴谋论者。
Look, how many guys here are precinct committeemen?
看看，这里有多少人是辖区委员？
Look at that.
看看那个。
Wow.
哇。
Everybody stand up.
大家都站起来。
Stand up if you're precinct committeemen.
如果你是辖区委员，请站起来。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Mike Lindell Look at that.
迈克·林德尔 看看那个。
Wow.
哇。
A few weeks back, Bannon asked one of his correspondents at a Trump rally in Pennsylvania to poll a group of supporters there.
几周前，班农在宾夕法尼亚州的一次特朗普集会上要求他的一名记者对那里的一群支持者进行民意调查。
OK, question from Steve to everybody here.
好的，史蒂夫向大家提问。
How many of you are precinct committeemen, or how many of you are going to become precinct committeemen to take over the Republican Party?
你们中有多少人是选区委员，或者你们中有多少人将成为选区委员来接管共和党？
We've got one, two.
我们有一个，两个。
I'm a precinct committeeman.
我是一名选区委员。
Woman I'm a judge of elections.
女人 我是选举法官。
And I ran for state committee, but we got two people in out of 16.
我竞选州委员会委员，但我们在 16 人中选出了两人。
OK, so we got four.
好的，所以我们有四个。
Anyone else?
还有其他人吗？
And if you aren't yet, you got to do it.
如果你还没有这样做，你就必须这样做。
This is the key, guys.
这是关键，伙计们。
And to the audience out there, Steve says it every day, but this is the key.
对于现场的观众，史蒂夫每天都会这么说，但这是关键。
You can't just come out here and fly your flags.
你不能只是来这里并飘扬你的旗帜。
You got to get in the fight.
你必须参加战斗。
Knock on doors, make phone calls, go to the elections offices.
挨家挨户敲门、打电话、前往选举办公室。
Take over the Republican Party.
接管共和党。
We have to MAGA the Republican Party.
我们必须让共和党再次伟大。
The person who first reported that there's this surge of new Stop the Steal recruits becoming precinct committeemen around the country for the Republican Party was Isaac Arnsdorf.
第一个报告称“制止盗窃”组织的新成员激增，成为全国各地共和党选区委员的人是艾萨克·阿恩斯多夫 (Isaac Arnsdorf)。
He was at Propublica when he did that.
当他这样做时，他正在 Propublica。
These days, he's a politics reporter at the Washington Post.
如今，他是《华盛顿邮报》的政治记者。
And he's been tracking this takeover of the Republican Party in swing states all over the country.
他一直在追踪共和党在全国各地摇摆州的接管情况。
He allowed us to tag along with him.
他允许我们跟随他。
We were happy to go.
我们很高兴地去了。
He and one of our producers, Zoe Chace, hit the road together to see how the presence of these Stop the Stealers is changing things.
他和我们的一位制作人佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace) 一起上路，看看这些“阻止偷窃者”的存在如何改变一切。
If they get their way, it's going to shift the party and the way we do elections pretty fundamentally for years to come.
如果他们如愿，这将在未来几年从根本上改变政党和我们进行选举的方式。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Magazona Ira Glass Act 1, Magazona.
第一幕：Magazona Ira Glass 第一幕，Magazona。
So today on our show, we're going to look at how all this is playing out in Arizona, a place that some MAGA people like to call Magazona.
所以今天在我们的节目中，我们将看看这一切在亚利桑那州是如何上演的，一些 MAGA 人喜欢将这个地方称为 Magazona。
And we chose Arizona because the movement there has really been setting the pace for the rest of the country.
我们选择亚利桑那州是因为那里的运动确实为全国其他地区设定了步伐。
People who believe the 2020 election was stolen tried to recall Republican officials there.
认为 2020 年选举被窃取的人们试图召回那里的共和党官员。
They also pushed for a hand recount of millions of ballots that became a model for other states around the country who tried it.
他们还推动对数百万张选票进行手工重新计票，这成为全国其他尝试过这种做法的州的典范。
Even though in Arizona it revealed that Joe Biden won the election with even more votes than they had thought, the audit in Arizona galvanized tons of people who wanted to do more.
尽管在亚利桑那州，乔·拜登以比他们想象的更多的票数赢得了选举，但亚利桑那州的审计激发了很多人想要做更多的事情。
And lots of those people jumped into the precinct strategy.
许多人都加入了辖区战略。
So in Arizona, you can really see the effect that strategy is having.
因此，在亚利桑那州，您可以真正看到该策略所产生的效果。
That is what Isaac and Zoe have been out there co-reporting.
这就是艾萨克和佐伊共同报道的内容。
Here's Isaac.
这是艾萨克。
All over the country, almost everywhere I called-- Georgia, Florida, Texas-- there were local level Republican officials who are getting flooded with new people wanting to become precinct committee members.
在全国各地，几乎所有我打电话过的地方——佐治亚州、佛罗里达州、得克萨斯州——都有当地的共和党官员，他们正涌入大量希望成为选区委员会成员的新人。
A lot of these officials didn't know about the precinct strategy.
许多官员并不了解辖区战略。
They hadn't seen Steve Bannon's interview with Dan Schultz.
他们没有看到史蒂夫·班农对丹·舒尔茨的采访。
And they were frankly a little puzzled by what was happening, like Kathy Petsas in Maricopa county, Arizona.
坦率地说，他们对所发生的事情感到有点困惑，就像亚利桑那州马里科帕县的凯西·佩特萨斯 (Kathy Petsas) 一样。
It was a rainstorm of people who all of a sudden, out of the woodwork, were wanting to suddenly become precinct committee members.
突然之间，人们突然想成为辖区委员会成员，就像一场暴风雨。
I used to get like two or three people a month.
我曾经每个月接待两三个人。
And now I was getting 40 to 50.
现在我已经40到50了。
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, I'm not kidding.
哦，我不是在开玩笑。
I see your look.
我看到你的样子。
No, 40 to 50 applications like thrown at me.
不，有 40 到 50 个申请向我扔来。
Sometimes in a week.
有时一周内。
Kathy is old school, an OG Republican, she says.
凯西说，她是个守旧派，是一位 OG 共和党人。
She was stuffing mailers for the party when she was 12 or 13.
当她 12 岁或 13 岁的时候，她就在为聚会填充邮件。
When she was a teenager, she was awarded Outstanding Teenage Republican.
当她十几岁的时候，她被授予杰出青少年共和党人奖。
She got to meet President Reagan in the Rose Garden.
她在玫瑰园会见了里根总统。
Puts a McCain sign on her lawn every year for his birthday.
每年在麦凯恩生日时都会在她的草坪上放一个麦凯恩标志。
She's been a precinct committee member for 40 years.
她担任辖区委员会成员已有 40 年。
As district chair, she had 454 precinct committee slots.
作为区主席，她拥有 454 个区委员会席位。
And she had a clear idea of who a precinct committee member should be-- someone who knows the neighborhood and the people in it, someone knowledgeable about local Republican politics.
她清楚地知道选区委员会成员应该是谁——一个了解社区和里面的人的人，一个了解当地共和党政治的人。
And Kathy wanted to know who are all these new people who suddenly wanted to do this unglamorous job.
凯西想知道这些突然想做这份乏味工作的新人是谁。
She started taking the applicants out to meet one on one.
她开始带申请人出去进行一对一的会面。
I ended up having coffee with 156 people I've never met before and about a-- I mean, sometimes it was multiple times a day I would go and meet with people.
我最终和 156 个我以前从未见过的人一起喝了咖啡，我的意思是，有时我一天会去见很多人。
They would start bringing up the things that we've all heard about, the videos, the this and that, and no, this is out there and you really should watch this, and you should read this, to try to explain to me how I really didn't know anything about the election and the process.
他们会开始提出我们都听说过的事情，视频，这个那个，不，这个就在那里，你真的应该看这个，你应该读这个，试图向我解释为什么我真的对选举和过程一无所知。
Basically saying there's a conspiracy rigging this election.
基本上是说有一个阴谋操纵这次选举。
Yes.
是的。
Zoe Chace You've been involved in local politics for a long time but you don't understand the depth of this conspiracy.
佐伊·查斯（Zoe Chace）：你参与地方政治很长时间了，但你不了解这个阴谋的深度。
I don't understand.
我不明白。
No, they would-- yeah, and so we would have an interesting conversation.
不，他们会——是的，所以我们会进行一次有趣的对话。
I don't mind paying for their coffees.
我不介意付钱买他们的咖啡。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
No one rational-- no one who has voted over and over and over again actually believes that.
没有一个理性的人——没有一个一遍又一遍投票的人真正相信这一点。
To be clear, not all the new applicants thought the election was stolen.
需要明确的是，并非所有新申请人都认为选举被窃取。
But a lot of them did.
但他们中的很多人都这么做了。
And Kathy thought what they were saying was nuts.
凯西认为他们说的话很疯狂。
As the district chair, Kathy had the authority to appoint the new precinct committee members or not.
作为区主席，凯西有权任命或不任命新的区委员会成员。
Other chairs in other districts were like, cool, whatever.
其他地区的其他椅子就像，很酷，无论如何。
Sign them up.
给他们报名。
But Kathy decided she was going to screen the new people.
但凯西决定要筛选新人。
And after every meeting, I would go back and just kind of look at-- maybe I had to look up their voter history, only to find out that some of them actually weren't registered Republicans.
每次会议结束后，我都会回去看看——也许我必须查找他们的选民历史，结果发现他们中的一些人实际上不是注册的共和党人。
Some-- many had only recently registered to vote, had never voted.
有些人——许多人最近才登记投票，但从未投票过。
But in a coffee or a meeting or something with them, they would tell me about massive fraud they'd seen.
但在与他们喝咖啡或开会或其他活动时，他们会告诉我他们看到的大规模欺诈行为。
And I'd think she's never voted.
我认为她从来没有投票过。
You know?
你知道？
I felt like it's my-- I'm the one signing off, right?
我觉得这是我的——我是那个签字的人，对吧？
I want to feel pretty comfortable about what I'm signing off on.
我想对我要签署的内容感到非常舒服。
And it's my prerogative.
这是我的特权。
It says in our bylaws, it's my choice.
我们的章程说，这是我的选择。
So those people who just registered to vote, talking about massive fraud, pleasure to meet you.
所以那些刚刚登记投票的人，正在谈论大规模欺诈，很高兴见到你。
See you around.
再见。
Kathy's going to look for someone else to fill that slot.
凯西将寻找其他人来填补这个空缺。
This was also your sneaky criteria for eliminating some of these new Stop the Steal people, I feel like.
我觉得，这也是你们消灭一些新的“停止偷窃”人员的狡猾标准。
Who's been sneaking?
谁偷偷摸摸的？
It wasn't sneaky.
这并不偷偷摸摸。
How could that be sneaky?
怎么可能这么偷偷摸摸呢？
I guess was it's like-- I think what I mean by the word sneaky is, like you could say if you believe the election was stolen, then you don't get to be--
我想这就像——我想我所说的偷偷摸摸这个词的意思是，就像你可以说的那样，如果你相信选举被窃取了，那么你就不会——
It was a standard.
这是一个标准。
It was a fair standard.
这是一个公平的标准。
You want to talk about the election, I want to talk about it with people who actually participate in elections.
你想谈选举，我想和真正参与选举的人谈。
Kathy didn't think people who were telling her about massive voter fraud would make good messengers for the party.
凯西认为那些告诉她大规模选民欺诈行为的人不会成为该党的好使者。
They weren't wild about her either.
他们也不热衷于她。
I spoke with one of the people Kathy was trying to keep out of the precinct committee, Merissa Hamilton.
我与凯西试图阻止其加入辖区委员会的人之一梅丽莎·汉密尔顿进行了交谈。
And when I brought up Kathy's name, Merissa lunged, lobbing the worst insult you could against a fellow Republican.
当我提到凯西的名字时，梅丽莎扑了上去，对一位共和党同胞发出了最严厉的侮辱。
Kathy Petsas supported-- quietly supported Biden.
凯西·佩特萨斯支持——默默地支持拜登。
She wouldn't let people become precinct committeemen if they supported Trump.
如果人们支持特朗普，她不会让他们成为选区委员。
So have you interviewed Kathy Petsas?
那么你采访过凯西·佩特萨斯吗？
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
Merissa Hamilton She's lying to you.
梅丽莎·汉密尔顿 她在骗你。
So Kathy Petsas did not support Trump.
所以凯西·佩特萨斯并不支持特朗普。
She told people to vote for Biden.
她告诉人们投票给拜登。
She was a Never Trumper, a bold Never Trumper.
她是一个永不特朗普的人，一个大胆的永不特朗普的人。
Kathy actually seems to be a Once Trumper.
凯西实际上似乎是一个曾经的特朗普者。
Says she supported him in 2016, just not anymore.
说她在 2016 年支持他，但现在不再了。
Still, Kathy insists she never supported Biden and didn't tell anybody else to either.
尽管如此，凯西坚称她从未支持拜登，也没有告诉其他人。
The idea is anathema to Kathy.
这个想法让凯西感到厌恶。
And she would only invite-- Zoe Chace Merissa says she heard that Kathy even recruited Democrats to switch parties and become Republicans, in order to install them as precinct committeemen under her control, to keep control of her legislative district.
她只会邀请——佐伊·切斯·梅丽莎说，她听说凯西甚至招募民主党人转党并成为共和党人，以便让他们成为她控制下的选区委员，以保持对她的立法选区的控制。
This may have happened in only one case, I think.
我认为这种情况可能只发生在一种情况下。
And I believe Kathy didn't know the Republican donor she recruited was actually a registered Democrat in her mad dash to recruit PCs who didn't believe the election was stolen.
我相信凯西并不知道她招募的共和党捐助者实际上是一名注册的民主党人，因为她疯狂地招募那些不相信选举被窃取的保守党人士。
Anyway, Merissa found out the kinds of people Kathy was recruiting all while people like her were being ignored, and she was mad.
不管怎样，梅丽莎发现凯西一直在招募什么样的人，而像她这样的人却被忽视了，她很生气。
Also, Kathy stopped holding regular PC meetings.
此外，凯西不再举行定期的个人电脑会议。
She says because of COVID.
她说因为新冠肺炎。
Merissa thinks it was to keep people out, so she wouldn't have to hear from those who disagreed with her within her legislative district.
梅丽莎认为这是为了将人们拒之门外，这样她就不必听取她所在立法区内那些与她意见不同的人的意见。
People say LD here.
这里人们说LD。
I felt that the frustrations that we saw with Stop the Steal came from people not knowing how to operate their government, not knowing how to participate.
我觉得我们在停止盗窃中看到的挫败感来自于人们不知道如何运作政府，不知道如何参与。
But if you're living in an LD where the chair won't let you participate, then of course it's going to manifest into something like Stop the Steal.
但如果你生活在一个 LD 中，主席不允许你参与，那么它当然会表现为“停止偷窃”之类的东西。
Because people are going to have no other outlet than to just be mad.
因为人们除了生气之外没有其他出路。
This feud isn't just Kathy versus Merissa.
这场不和不仅仅是凯西和梅丽莎之间的争斗。
Everywhere you go, there's some version of old school Republicans getting overrun by MAGA election deniers at this ground floor precinct level of the party.
无论你走到哪里，在该党的底层选区，都会有一些老派共和党人被“MAGA”选举否认者压垮。
Merissa believes the election was compromised.
梅丽莎认为选举受到了损害。
We'll never know who won, she says, but thinks of herself as more reasonable than other Stop the Stealers, and a data expert of sorts because of work she's done in the past in supply chain management.
她说，我们永远不会知道谁赢了，但她认为自己比其他“阻止偷窃者”更理性，而且由于她过去在供应链管理方面所做的工作，她还是一名数据专家。
Right after 2020, she launched her own research project into how many dead people were voting.
2020 年刚过，她就启动了自己的研究项目，调查有多少死者在投票。
She claimed to have found 33.
她声称找到了33个。
The attorney general then looked at it and found that only one of those was real.
司法部长一看，发现其中只有一张是真的。
It wasn't a nefarious ballot harvester from the Democrats.
这不是民主党的邪恶选票收割机。
It was a Republican who'd voted her recently deceased mother's ballot, and she was indicted.
是一位共和党人给她最近去世的母亲投了票，她被起诉了。
Merissa says Kathy ridiculed any research into the 2020 election, which made her especially mad.
梅丽莎说，凯西嘲笑任何对 2020 年大选的研究，这让她特别生气。
Kathy says she has no idea what Merissa is referring to, but Kathy doesn't have any patience for that kind of research, it's true.
凯西说她不知道梅丽莎指的是什么，但凯西对这种研究没有任何耐心，这是事实。
You know, she's one of those who gloms on to-- hey, here's an idea that everybody's making hay out of, and I'm going to do it, too.
你知道，她是那些迷恋的人之一——嘿，这是一个每个人都在利用的想法，我也将这样做。
Because I don't have anything else going on, I might as well do this.
因为我没有其他事情要做，所以我不妨这样做。
Yeah.
是的。
Kathy Petsas And so that's her deal.
凯西·佩特萨斯 这就是她的交易。
She's a good grifter, really good grifter.
她是一个好骗子，真的是一个好骗子。
Harsh, Kathy.
严厉，凯西。
Kathy Petsas But it's true.
凯西·佩特萨斯 但这是真的。
It's sad.
很伤心。
She could do good, but she chooses to mislead people.
她本可以做好事，但她选择误导人们。
That-- I have no space for that.
那——我没有空间了。
Merissa started rallying other PCs and wannabe PCs who'd been blocked by Kathy Petsas to do something about her.
梅丽莎开始召集其他电脑和那些被凯西·佩特萨斯阻止的想成为电脑的人来对她做点什么。
And I was like, so what do you want to do?
我当时想，那你想做什么？
And he was like, we're firing Petsas.
他说，我们要解雇佩特萨斯。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
Let's just get people organized to work in the district.
让我们组织人们在该地区工作吧。
They called a meeting, a meet and greet, she called it.
他们召开了一次会议，她称之为见面和问候。
Others called it a resistance meeting.
其他人称之为抵抗会议。
We had almost 40 to 50 people show up.
我们有近 40 到 50 人到场。
It quickly turned into a very loud, rowdy conversation.
谈话很快就变成了一场非常吵闹的谈话。
They wanted to fire Kathy Petsas.
他们想解雇凯西·佩特萨斯。
They were mad that she wasn't letting them participate.
他们很生气她不让他们参加。
These are active.
这些都是活跃的。
These are active sitting PCs that are elected PCs.
这些是被选举为活动 PC 的 PC。
Then Merissa and her crew found a workaround in the bylaws, a way to go over Kathy's head-- to get people onto Kathy's precinct committees.
然后梅丽莎和她的团队在章程中找到了一个变通办法，一种绕过凯西的方法——让人们加入凯西的辖区委员会。
She could send the applications to the Republican county chair, who wasn't on team Kathy.
她可以将申请发送给共和党县主席，但他并不在凯西团队中。
Then she could approve it and give it to the recorder's office.
然后她就可以批准并交给记录办公室。
You got 100 to 200 precinct committeemen appointed that way?
你们以这种方式任命了 100 到 200 名选区委员吗？
Yes.
是的。
Zoe Chace That's what Merissa says.
佐伊·切斯 梅丽莎就是这么说的。
Kathy says it was more like 25 to 30 people who got in over her head.
凯西说，大约有 25 到 30 个人让她无法应对。
In any case, that's how Merissa and a whole bunch of new Stop the Steal recruits got on Kathy's committee.
无论如何，这就是梅丽莎和一大批阻止盗窃组织的新成员加入凯西委员会的方式。
Kathy was trying to jam a lid on a pot that was boiling over.
凯西正试图盖上一个正在沸腾的锅子的盖子。
Even before this attempt to take over precinct committee positions, the Arizona Republican Party was pretty dominated by MAGA people.
甚至在这次尝试接管选区委员会职位之前，亚利桑那州共和党就已经由“MAGA”人士主导。
And after they tried to recall the Republican elected officials who certified the election, and after they spent millions of dollars to recount ballots by hand, their next target was this election, the midterms.
在他们试图召回认证选举的共和党民选官员，并在花费数百万美元手工重新计票之后，他们的下一个目标是这次选举，即中期选举。
They wanted to put Stop the Stealers in office who would actually do in future elections what Republican officials wouldn't do in 2020.
他们想让 Stop the Stealers 上台，他实际上会在未来的选举中做共和党官员在 2020 年不会做的事情。
Because when I'm governor, we're going to take a sledgehammer to these damn electronic voting machines in Arizona.
因为当我担任州长时，我们将对亚利桑那州这些该死的电子投票机动用大锤。
That's Kari lake, former local news anchor, now a candidate for governor.
那就是卡里·莱克，前当地新闻主播，现在是州长候选人。
She said she would not have certified the 2020 election results.
她表示，她不会认证 2020 年选举结果。
Same goes for Mark Finchem, a candidate for secretary of state, which is the top elections official.
国务卿候选人、最高选举官员马克·芬臣 (Mark Finchem) 也是如此。
Finchem is also an Oath Keeper who was at the Capitol on January 6, though he says he wasn't involved in the violence.
芬臣也是一名誓言守护者，1 月 6 日他曾在国会大厦，但他表示自己没有参与暴力事件。
Both Lake and Finchem want to get rid of vote counting machines, get rid of voting by mail.
莱克和芬臣都希望摆脱计票机，摆脱邮寄投票。
If they take office, they'd be in the position to refuse to certify future elections.
如果他们上任，他们将有权拒绝认证未来的选举。
These are the candidates that the new precinct committee people are generally supporting.
这些是新选区委员会人员普遍支持的候选人。
In the primary, they had competition from more mainstream establishment Republicans, politicians who didn't claim the election was stolen, people Kathy supported.
在初选中，他们面临来自更主流建制派共和党人的竞争，这些人没有声称选举被窃取，而凯西支持的人。
Hi.
你好。
How are you?
你好吗？
I'm Kathy.
我是凯西。
Zoe Chace A few days before the August primary, Kathy is out door knocking, getting out the vote for Karrin Taylor Robson, establishment candidate running against the aforementioned election truther, Kari Lake.
佐伊·切斯 (Zoe Chace) 八月初选前几天，凯西 (Kathy) 出门敲门，为卡琳·泰勒·罗布森 (Karrin Taylor Robson) 投票，后者是与上述选举真相者卡里·莱克 (Kari Lake) 竞选的建制派候选人。
Kathy is the most determined, maybe desperate door knocker I've ever met.
凯西是我见过的最坚定、甚至绝望的敲门者。
Almost seven days a week for months now, she's door knocking.
几个月以来，她几乎每周 7 天都在敲门。
She wears the same big sunhat each day, washes her vote t-shirt most nights.
她每天都戴着同一顶大遮阳帽，大多数晚上都会洗她的投票T恤。
It's almost a full time job, seems like.
看起来这几乎是一份全职工作。
Today, she's brought Beau with her, running for secretary of state.
今天，她带着博一起竞选国务卿。
Says he was recruited by the business community of Phoenix because the real Republicans are concerned that the Trump endorsed Oath Keeper, Finchem, is leading in the polls.
说他被凤凰城商界招募是因为真正的共和党人担心特朗普背书的誓言守护者芬臣在民意调查中领先。
I'm a precinct committee member.
我是区委员会成员。
I'm here for Beau Lane.
我是来博巷的。
Beau and I actually were teenage Republicans together at Central High School.
事实上，博和我都是中央高中的共和党青少年。
And Karrin Robson Taylor, who's also a fellow native Arizonan, and she's running for governor of the state of Arizona.
卡琳·罗布森·泰勒 (Karrin Robson Taylor) 也是土生土长的亚利桑那州人，她正在竞选亚利桑那州州长。
I've seen a lot of them.
我见过很多。
Kathy Petsas Have you have you made a decision on governor yet?
凯西·佩特萨斯 (Kathy Petsas) 你对州长人选做出决定了吗？
No. I'll tell you, we need some changes here.
不，我告诉你，我们这里需要一些改变。
That's for sure.
这是肯定的。
Well, I hope that-- Zoe Chace Change is not really what Kathy is selling, unfortunately.
好吧，我希望——不幸的是，Zoe Chace Change 并不是 Kathy 真正销售的产品。
We only stop at one house where someone's outwardly enthusiastic for her candidate, Karrin.
我们只在一所房子里停下来，那里有人表面上对她的候选人卡琳充满热情。
At our last stop, Kathy leans over a fence as a woman explains why she'd never vote for her.
在我们的最后一站，凯西靠在栅栏上，一名妇女解释了为什么她永远不会投票给她。
I was considering her, but she did two things that I found unacceptable.
我正在考虑她，但她做了两件事让我无法接受。
One is actually putting Pence up with her.
一个人实际上是在让彭斯和她在一起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I have very little respect for that man.
我对那个人非常不尊重。
And god, I can't even remember the other one right now, but she did two things, and that was one of them.
天哪，我现在甚至不记得另一件事了，但她做了两件事，那就是其中之一。
If she's bringing in people that I have no respect for, and I've also done some research.
如果她带来了我不尊重的人，我也做了一些研究。
She's getting a lot of out-of-state money.
她从州外得到了很多钱。
And I'd much rather see in-state money.
我更愿意看到州内的资金。
I don't care about-- I don't want that.
我不在乎——我不想那样。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Well, these are other people.
嗯，这些是其他人。
I've pulled out her information.
我已经把她的资料调出来了
I'm more than capable of doing my research.
我完全有能力进行研究。
All right.
好的。
Well, would you consider voting for me for secretary of state?
那么，你会考虑投票给我当国务卿吗？
Thank you.
谢谢。
Woman You have not yet offended me.
女人你还没有得罪我。
And so do you think you're going to vote for Kari Lake then?
那么你认为你会投票给卡里·莱克吗？
I'm not certain.
我不确定。
Kathy Petsas Well, please think about Karrin again.
凯西·佩特萨斯 好吧，请再想想卡琳。
We would appreciate your consideration of her because we know her personally.
我们非常感谢您对她的考虑，因为我们认识她。
We know that she would be a great executive.
我们知道她会成为一名出色的高管。
She has the right skills.
她有合适的技能。
She has executive leadership.
她拥有行政领导权。
She's a lawyer.
她是一名律师。
Kathy Petsas Well, Kari Lake read content on the news.
凯西·佩特萨斯 好吧，卡里·莱克阅读了新闻内容。
Yes, she did.
是的，她做到了。
Which I don't admire any media, but I do admire somebody who says enough is enough and I'm not going to do it anymore.
我不钦佩任何媒体，但我确实钦佩那些说“够了，我不会再这样做了”的人。
She was never in the trenches.
她从来没有在战壕里。
She's somebody who when we were trying to get Republicans elected for president, she--
当我们试图让共和党人当选总统时，她——
Somebody had a job where she voted for Obama and I don't care.
有人的工作是投票支持奥巴马，但我不在乎。
People get to change their mind.
人们会改变主意。
They get to smarten up.
他们变得聪明起来。
I did.
我做到了。
OK.
好的。
Well, good luck.
好吧，祝你好运。
And thank you very much.
非常感谢。
And as we walk away, we hear a distinct "fuck you" called after us.
当我们走开时，我们听到身后传来明显的“操你”的声音。
Back in the car, they're moving on to the next neighborhood.
回到车上，他们正前往下一个街区。
In a bad movie?
在一部糟糕的电影中？
[LAUGHS] Like if I'm in a nightmare?
[笑]就像我在噩梦中一样？
Like, how in the world did everything turn on its head?
就像，世界上的一切到底是如何发生逆转的？
Well, do you?
嗯，你呢？
Kathy Petsas I do.
凯西·佩特萨斯 我愿意。
You know, what's hard is that we had a great group of congressmen from Arizona.
你知道，困难的是我们有一群来自亚利桑那州的优秀国会议员。
And now we have sort of this back-bencher kind of group that went off on these crazy conspiracy theories.
现在我们有这样一个后座议员团体，他们提出了这些疯狂的阴谋论。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I mean, this is your party.
我的意思是，这是你的派对。
Like, this is where the new energy in the party is coming from, all this stolen election stuff.
就像，这就是党内新活力的来源，所有这些窃取的选举东西。
If the party really is serious about winning, then they look at who are the best candidates that can win a general election.
如果该党真的想获胜，那么他们就会看看谁是能够赢得大选的最佳候选人。
We are not here-- there is a big group of us.
我们不在这里——我们有一大群人。
We are not here for half time.
我们已经不到半场时间了。
Arizona is known as a fairly conservative state, at least until 2020.
亚利桑那州被认为是一个相当保守的州，至少在 2020 年之前是这样。
But actually only about a third of the state's registered voters are Republicans.
但实际上该州登记选民中只有大约三分之一是共和党人。
A little less than a third are Democrats.
不到三分之一是民主党人。
The rest are independents.
其余的都是独立人士。
So whoever wins the general has to win with independents.
因此，无论谁赢得了将军的胜利，都必须与独立人士一起获胜。
Kathy thinks the Kari Lakes of the world can't do that.
凯西认为世界上的卡里湖无法做到这一点。
But that's not who's voting in the Republican primary, not who's filling up the precinct slots in the local Republican Party.
但这并不是谁在共和党初选中投票，也不是谁在填补当地共和党的选区席位。
One of the biggest things these Stop the Steal newbies are doing, now that they're part of the party organization at the bottom rung as precinct committee people, is that they're setting up an infrastructure to watch all the voting locations in the midterms, to catch the fraud they didn't catch in 2020.
这些“停止盗窃”新手现在所做的最重要的事情之一是，他们正在建立一个基础设施来监视中期选举的所有投票地点，以发现他们在 2020 年没有发现的欺诈行为，现在他们作为选区委员会人员成为底层党组织的一部分。
They've signed up as official Republican Party poll watchers at voting locations.
他们已注册成为投票地点的官方共和党民意调查观察员。
On primary day, outside one of those locations, a big suburban church in Mesa, we meet up with Peggy Dumas, someone who never paid attention to her precinct until she just became a committee member.
初选那天，在其中一个地点（梅萨的一座大型郊区教堂）外面，我们见到了佩吉·杜马斯（Peggy Dumas），她在成为委员会成员之前从未关注过她的辖区。
She's got her snacks, her knitting, a notebook, and a pen to take notes.
她带了零食、针织品、笔记本和记笔记的笔。
It's her first time poll watching.
这是她第一次观看民意调查。
She picked a quiet polling place.
她选择了一个安静的投票地点。
I thought Peggy would be excited to get a piece of the action, to catch the cheaters red handed.
我以为佩吉会很高兴能参与其中，当场抓住作弊者。
But actually she didn't want that.
但实际上她并不想要这样。
You know, I get worked up.
你知道，我很激动。
You know me.
你了解我。
And they'd probably throw me out.
他们可能会把我赶出去。
Basically, she's scared she's going to hulk out.
基本上，她害怕自己会变得笨拙。
I have to confront somebody, it's not going to get pretty.
我必须面对某人，事情不会变得美好。
So I have to watch my temper.
所以我得注意自己的脾气。
Not really nothing.
并不是真的什么都没有。
I think-- I think it's because they know we're watching.
我想——我想这是因为他们知道我们在看着。
Going with her as she voted just before her shift, Peggy was super suspicious that something was going to go down.
佩吉在轮班前和她一起投票，她非常怀疑会发生什么事情。
She brought her own pen to vote, because in 2020, some of the polling places provided Sharpie pens.
她带着自己的笔去投票，因为2020年，一些投票点提供了记号笔。
And there was a conspiracy theory that the machines couldn't read those ballots.
有一种阴谋论认为机器无法读取这些选票。
OK, what kind of pens are we talking about?
好吧，我们谈论的是哪种笔？
Well, the pen is in there.
嗯，笔就在那里。
Woman They're felt-tip.
女人 他们是毡尖的。
No, I'm not using felt-tip.
不，我没有使用毡尖。
That's not happening.
那并没有发生。
Peggy is a classic new precinct committee member.
佩吉是一位典型的新辖区委员会成员。
Before it was the Sharpies, it was the birth certificate.
在出现记号笔之前，它是出生证明。
I really got involved in it probably since-- I was involved in the Tea Party back during Obama.
我真正参与其中可能是因为——我在奥巴马执政期间参与了茶党。
Because you don't even want to know.
因为你根本就不想知道。
You don't want to go into all that.
你不想深入了解这一切。
That's done and over with.
这样就完成了。
There's nothing we can do about it.
我们对此无能为力。
[LAUGHS] That's over.
[笑]就这样结束了。
So that's what got me involved, then and then of course with this election in 2020.
这就是我参与 2020 年选举的原因。
This was a tough time for Peggy, in a way.
从某种程度上来说，这对佩吉来说是一段艰难的时期。
She says she quit her job during the pandemic.
她说，她在疫情期间辞掉了工作。
She thought she might be ready to retire.
她认为她可能已经准备好退休了。
Her job was, she helped people who were underwater figure out how to pay off their debts.
她的工作是帮助陷入困境的人们弄清楚如何偿还债务。
She lives alone with her dogs, whom she dotes on.
她独自和她喜爱的狗住在一起。
And she ended up spending a ton of time on her phone, reading about the election being stolen by nefarious actors.
她最终花了很多时间在手机上，阅读有关选举被邪恶演员窃取的信息。
Like a lot of people I talked to, the radicalizing moment for Peggy was the moment that Fox called the election for Biden so early.
和我交谈过的很多人一样，佩吉的激进时刻是福克斯这么早就宣布拜登大选的那一刻。
Like, it just seems so obvious to her that the fix was in.
就像，对她来说，修复已经完成是显而易见的。
There must be more Trump voters than Biden ones in Arizona, long car caravans of them, rallies with thousands and thousands of people.
在亚利桑那州，特朗普的选民肯定比拜登的选民还要多，他们组成了长长的车队，成千上万的人参加集会。
The only way Biden could have won is cheating.
拜登获胜的唯一方法就是作弊。
And for Peggy, just the frustration that nobody did anything about it.
对于佩吉来说，只是因为没有人采取任何行动而感到沮丧。
She saw the Bannon video.
她看到了班农的视频。
She signed up as a PC.
她注册为个人电脑。
The PC strategy is the way to take and elect the right people, get the right people elected.
保守党战略是选择和选举合适的人，让合适的人当选的方法。
OK.
好的。
Peggy Dumas Period.
佩吉·杜马斯时期。
Get the RINOs out.
把绿诺们赶出去。
I don't like them either.
我也不喜欢他们。
I dislike the RINOs worse than the Democrats.
比起民主党，我更不喜欢绿诺。
You're supposed to be a Republican, and you don't support us.
你应该是共和党人，但你不支持我们。
I dislike them worse.
我更不喜欢他们。
Because as far as I'm concerned, they're traitors.
因为就我而言，他们是叛徒。
Now that all these people who believe there's fraud everywhere are going to be stationed inside the polls, I wanted to find out what instructions they were getting.
现在所有这些相信到处都有欺诈行为的人都将驻扎在投票站内，我想知道他们得到了什么指示。
What were they going to do once they were there?
他们到达那里后要做什么？
We tried getting into one of these trainings in Arizona, but the state party wouldn't let us.
我们尝试在亚利桑那州参加其中一项培训，但该州不允许我们。
But this is happening all over the country.
但这种情况正在全国各地发生。
It's the same idea, and we were able to listen in on a training in Georgia.
这是同样的想法，我们能够收听在佐治亚州的培训。
Constitution says to not interfere with the process.
宪法规定不干涉这一过程。
And yet we're supposed to watch very keenly the emptying of a dropbox.
然而，我们应该非常敏锐地观察保管箱的清空情况。
OK, so if you see somebody coming in with a large number of ballots--
好吧，如果你看到有人带着大量选票进来——
Hang on.
坚持住。
The deal with this-- in lots of states, including Georgia, it's illegal to deliver other people's ballots, except family and household members.
协议是这样的——在包括佐治亚州在内的许多州，除了家庭和家庭成员之外，向其他人交付选票是非法的。
There are a lot of conspiracy theories about Democrats going around with big stacks of fake ballots and sticking them in dropboxes.
有很多关于民主党人到处携带大量假选票并将其放入保管箱的阴谋论。
So if that's what you see, here's what the trainer says you should do.
因此，如果您看到的是这样的情况，那么这就是培训师建议您应该做的事情。
You go immediately to the poll manager.
您立即前往投票管理器。
And you question them and say, I think I saw somebody come in and drop off more than one ballot and maybe a few more than one ballot, and see what they do.
你质疑他们并说，我想我看到有人进来投下了不止一张选票，也许还不止一张选票，看看他们做了什么。
So I wouldn't run after the person and ask them any questions or talk to them.
所以我不会追着那个人问他们任何问题或与他们交谈。
I would go outside.
我会到外面去。
And I would take a picture of them, and I would take a picture of their license.
我会给他们拍一张照片，也会给他们的执照拍一张照片。
OK, and take a picture of their car, as much evidence as we could get.
好的，给他们的车拍张照片，尽可能多地提供证据。
This is the point they keep coming back to over and over-- gather evidence that Republicans can use in lawsuits to challenge the results, not just in this county in Georgia but everywhere.
这就是他们不断反复讨论的一点——收集共和党人可以在诉讼中用来质疑结果的证据，不仅在佐治亚州这个县，而且在任何地方。
So then we could take that and open an investigation, and use that as evidence, right?
那么我们可以采取这一点并展开调查，并将其用作证据，对吗？
But do not talk to them.
但不要和他们说话。
Do not ask them questions.
不要问他们问题。
Do not confront them.
不要与他们对抗。
Do not talk to any voters.
不要与任何选民交谈。
I'm not sure that following someone out to their car and taking pictures of their license plate wouldn't lead to a confrontation.
我不确定跟踪某人到他们的车前并拍摄他们的车牌照片不会导致冲突。
But the thing that really struck me was the people taking the training.
但真正让我印象深刻的是参加培训的人。
They weren't shying away from the action like Peggy.
他们并不像佩吉那样回避行动。
They sounded like they were spoiling for a fight.
他们听起来就像是渴望打架。
They wanted to catch wrongdoers in the act.
他们想当场抓获不法分子。
I just want to say the feeling that I get from this poll watching thing is that we're watching a mugging and all we're doing is taking definitions.
我只是想说，我从这次民意调查中得到的感觉是，我们正在观看一场抢劫，而我们所做的只是给出定义。
You know, you're exactly right.
你知道，你是完全正确的。
We're not allowed to say anything.
我们不被允许说什么。
We're describing the assailant and being able to turn it over to the police.
我们正在描述袭击者并能够将其移交给警方。
Who aren't going to do anything about it.
谁不会对此采取任何行动。
An hour later, and then hope that they do-- yes, exactly.
一个小时后，然后希望他们能做到——是的，确实如此。
Well this is where-- Man But if this is what we're here for--
好吧，这就是——伙计，但是如果这就是我们来这里的目的——
No, it's not.
不，不是。
It's not.
它不是。
Man If this is the definition of this job, watcher, where we are noting and declaring and documenting, then I get it.
伙计，如果这就是这项工作的定义，观察者，我们要注意、声明和记录，那么我明白了。
So that is the simplistic explanation.
这就是简单的解释。
But if there's a problem, we can address it right away.
但如果出现问题，我们可以立即解决。
We have attorneys, and we are not going to wait, and we're not going to wait for a lame secretary of state to not do anything.
我们有律师，我们不会等待，我们不会等待一个蹩脚的国务卿不采取任何行动。
I don't want to give you the wrong impression.
我不想给你留下错误的印象。
Most of this training was pretty by the book, a PowerPoint with lots of boring details about the state law.
大部分培训都是按照书本进行的，幻灯片上有很多关于州法律的无聊细节。
The poll watchers get long, detailed checklists of all the little things they're supposed to write down and photograph, even the serial numbers for the zip ties that are used to lock up the voting machines, tons of stuff that could be used in a lawsuit challenging the results.
民意调查观察员会得到一份长长的、详细的清单，上面列出了他们应该写下和拍照的所有小事情，甚至是用来锁投票机的扎带的序列号，还有大量可以在质疑投票结果的诉讼中使用的东西。
Back in Arizona, I'm doing a ride along with another first time poll watcher on primary day.
回到亚利桑那州，初选当天我和另一位第一次参加民意调查的观察员一起骑行。
You know, it's pretty simple.
你知道，这非常简单。
You just watch for things that are out of the ordinary.
你只需留意那些不寻常的事情。
I have binoculars if I need them.
如果需要的话我有双筒望远镜。
Marc's not an official poll watcher with the Republican Party.
马克不是共和党的官方民意调查观察员。
He's operating sort of off the books.
他的运作有些不按账本进行。
He volunteers with We the People AZ Alliance.
他是我们人民 AZ 联盟的志愿者。
It's a group co-founded by one of the newer district chairmen.
这是一个由一位新任区主席共同创立的团体。
Marc's whole job during the primary is to drive around in an enormous black car and observe polling places from the parking lot, looking for infractions.
马克在初选期间的全部工作就是开着一辆巨大的黑色汽车到处走动，从停车场观察投票站，寻找违规行为。
He takes notes in a little book.
他在一本小本子上做笔记。
Will you tell me what are you writing down?
你能告诉我你在写什么吗？
One of the poll watchers leaving.
一名民意调查观察员离开。
That's all.
就这样。
You're a journalist, aren't you?
你是一名记者，不是吗？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Marc OK.
马克 好的。
Where was the follow-up question?
后续问题在哪里？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
What just walked behind us?
刚才有什么东西跟在我们后面走？
Without looking.
没有看。
Well, there was a voter.
好吧，有一个选民。
Because he has the green envelope.
因为他有绿色信封。
OK.
好的。
Good.
好的。
How many?
多少？
Zoe Chace It looked like two.
佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace）看起来像两个。
Very good.
非常好。
Zoe Chace But yeah, how did you know it was a poll watcher?
Zoe Chace 但是，是的，你怎么知道那是民意调查员？
I didn't see.
我没看到。
Marc OK.
马克 好的。
She's carrying one.
她带着一个。
How many are those two carrying?
这两个人带了多少个？
I can't see.
我看不到。
Marc Oh, OK.
马克哦，好的。
None.
没有任何。
They're going in to vote.
他们要进去投票。
OK.
好的。
[LAUGHS] Marc dates his distrust of the government back to 911.
[笑]马克对政府的不信任可以追溯到 911 事件。
One of the many tattoos that covers his arms commemorates the towers.
他手臂上有众多纹身，其中之一是为了纪念这些塔楼。
Is there anything you could see out here with your own eyes that would convince you that the fix isn't in, that there's not cheating?
你能亲眼看到这里有什么东西可以让你相信修复不存在，不存在作弊吗？
I guess I'm just suspicious of everything.
我想我只是对一切都持怀疑态度。
You have to have eyes that everything is wrong.
你必须有眼睛看到一切都是错误的。
We head to another polling station.
我们前往另一个投票站。
When we pull out, someone replaces us, apparently.
当我们退出时，显然有人取代了我们。
Somebody is coming, yes.
有人来了，是的。
Zoe Chace Oh, wow.
佐伊·切斯 哦，哇。
Is there someone-- there can't be someone at every single spot.
有人吗——不可能每个地方都有人。
Is there?
有没有？
I'm just going to say this, that the evildoers do not know, will not know whether there is or isn't.
我只是说，有或没有，恶人不知道，也不会知道。
And I have to leave it there.
我必须把它留在那里。
At the next place, we see something suspicious.
在下一个地方，我们看到了一些可疑的东西。
Someone may be campaigning inside the 75-foot perimeter.
有人可能正在 75 英尺范围内活动。
They appear to be right on the line to me.
对我来说，他们似乎就在线上。
Marc's trying to snap a good picture of them with their faces to include in his report.
马克试图给他们拍一张好看的照片，并将其包含在他的报告中。
All right, come on.
好吧，来吧。
Honey, one more time.
亲爱的，再来一次。
There it is.
就在那里。
All right.
好的。
We're going to do this.
我们要做这个。
Stay buckled up, because we're going to go.
系好安全带，因为我们要走了。
He jumps out of the car.
他跳下车。
I have no idea why.
我不知道为什么。
I know he told me not to, but I follow him.
我知道他告诉我不要这样做，但我还是跟着他。
He takes a selfie with them and then comes back to the car.
他和他们拍了一张自拍照，然后回到车上。
He's clearly mad at me.
他显然对我很生气。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Marc Now he thinks we're from some news cast.
马克：现在他认为我们是新闻界的人。
I was confused.
我很困惑。
I didn't know what you were doing.
我不知道你在做什么。
I didn't want to miss it.
我不想错过它。
I know, but it's radio.
我知道，但这是广播。
He's writing down his report.
他正在写他的报告。
4:28, he's whispering.
4:28，他低声说话。
Which is the time.
时间到了。
We're burned at that place now, he says.
“我们现在在那个地方被烧伤了，”他说。
When you opened that door, I lost complete control of the situation.
当你打开那扇门时，我完全失去了对局势的控制。
And I know you don't fully understand--
我知道你并不完全理解——
I know you don't fully understand why Marc is agitated to the level he is, but one of them is the safety.
我知道你并不完全理解为什么马克会如此焦躁，但其中之一就是安全。
You're going to be doing this at the general election, too?
你也会在大选中这样做吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Zoe Chace Are you worried about that?
佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace）你担心这个吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Zoe Chace What are you worried about?
佐伊·切斯 你担心什么？
That the election's going to get stolen again.
选举将再次被窃取。
Did you ever watch a video of President Trump being in this rotunda, this great hall, and he's got a bunch of people around him and he said something about the storm.
你有没有看过特朗普总统在这个圆形大厅、这个大厅里的视频，他周围有一群人，他说了一些关于风暴的事情。
And a reporter asked, what's the storm, Mr. President?
有记者问，总统先生，风暴是什么？
And his response was, you'll see.
他的回答是，你会看到的。
What do you think the storm is?
你认为风暴是什么？
At the moment it was said, it was just said.
目前该说的，也只是说说而已。
Right.
正确的。
Marc Time rolls on, it's very obvious what the storm is.
Marc Time 滚滚而过，暴风雨是什么就一目了然了。
And I'm sorry that you don't see it.
很抱歉你没有看到它。
Well, what is it?
嗯，那是什么？
Marc We're the storm, the people.
马克：我们是风暴，人民。
Think about it.
想一想。
I can't give you all the answers, lady.
我无法给你所有的答案，女士。
Anything of note in Marc's reports is put into a spreadsheet, I'm told.
有人告诉我，马克报告中所有值得注意的内容都会被放入电子表格中。
So if it's like someone gets out of a red Honda with a whole bunch of ballots, and then later someone else sees a red Honda and someone getting out with a bunch of ballots, it'll be caught.
因此，如果有人带着一大堆选票从一辆红色本田车里出来，然后其他人看到一辆红色本田车并且有人带着一大堆选票从车里出来，它就会被抓住。
And they can investigate further if that's maybe an illegal ballot harvester.
他们可以进一步调查这是否是非法选票收集者。
It's primary night.
这是初一的夜晚。
I'm with Kathy at the watch party for her candidate, the establishment candidate, Karrin Taylor Robson.
我和凯西一起参加她的候选人、建制派候选人卡琳·泰勒·罗布森的观看派对。
We're in a ballroom at a really fancy resort.
我们在一个非常高档的度假村的舞厅里。
They're serving canapes, duck, and Gruyere tarts.
他们供应开胃菜、鸭肉和格鲁耶尔馅饼。
The crowd here is feeling great right now because Karrin Taylor Robson is leading Trump endorsed Kari Lake.
这里的人群现在感觉很棒，因为卡林·泰勒·罗布森（Karrin Taylor Robson）正在领导特朗普支持的卡里·莱克（Kari Lake）。
Karrin lives in LD 28, Kathy's district.
Karrin 住在 Kathy 所在的区 LD 28。
LD 28, we're going to call it the establishment, which it is.
LD 28，我们将其称为机构，确实如此。
This is right here.
这就是这里。
Well, you know what?
嗯，你知道吗？
Guess what.
你猜怎么着。
They work hard.
他们工作努力。
They give money.
他们给钱。
And they get people elected.
他们让人们当选。
And if that's the establishment, we'll take it all day long.
如果这就是机构，我们将整天接受它。
Kathy and I go to the bar for a drink.
凯西和我去酒吧喝一杯。
So I stop recording for a while.
所以我暂时停止录音。
As the night goes on, the results start to change as more election day ballots are counted.
随着夜幕降临，随着更多选举日选票的清点，结果开始发生变化。
Kari Lake is closing the gap.
卡里湖正在缩小差距。
Finally, she takes the lead.
最后，她取得了领先。
For a few minutes, I'm alone with Kathy.
有几分钟，我和凯西单独在一起。
She's tearing up and staring off blankly.
她泪流满面，眼神空洞。
I'm going to be sick, she says at one point.
我会生病的，她有一次说。
I can't be a PC in this.
我不能成为这方面的个人电脑。
I turn my recorder on again.
我再次打开录音机。
OK.
好的。
Kathy Petsas Well, what just happened, we had our candidate for governor is now down by 1,033 votes after leading all night.
Kathy Petsas 好吧，刚刚发生的事情是，我们的州长候选人在整夜领先后现在落后了 1,033 票。
She may not pull it out.
她可能拔不出来。
And this was our hope at having a competent, capable, pragmatic candidate for the governorship here in Arizona, and not have to deal with somebody who just makes up lies and spews them as her own personal truth.
我们希望亚利桑那州有一位有能力、有能力、务实的州长候选人，而不必与一个编造谎言并将其当作自己个人真理的人打交道。
So I'm disappointed right now.
所以我现在很失望。
After the primary, Kathy has to think about what to do.
初选结束后，凯西必须考虑该做什么。
She isn't going to go out knocking on a thousand doors for these nominees who she can't stomach.
她不会为这些她无法忍受的提名者敲一千家门。
There are some local candidates she'll campaign for and registering people to vote.
她将为一些当地候选人竞选并登记投票。
She's been approached to sign on to some lists of Republicans endorsing the Democratic candidates, but Kathy won't go there.
有人联系她签署一些支持民主党候选人的共和党人名单，但凯西不会去那里。
She isn't the party chair in her district anymore.
她不再是她所在地区的党主席了。
She actually decided not to run again, but the newbies didn't let her go quietly anyway.
她其实已经决定不再跑了，但新人们无论如何都没有悄悄放过她。
They made their move with a formal proceeding against her a few months before the primary, before her term as district chairman ended.
他们在初选前几个月、她的区主席任期结束前对她提起了正式诉讼。
So we're going to proceed with the hearing, and we'll go from there.
因此，我们将继续进行听证会，然后从那里开始。
Kathy describes this proceeding as a kangaroo court.
凯西将这一诉讼描述为“袋鼠法庭”。
It was a trial overseen by the county chair of the Maricopa County Republican Party, MCRC, and adjudicated by a committee of her fellow district chairmen.
该审判由马里科帕县共和党 (MCRC) 县主席监督，并由其他区主席组成的委员会进行裁决。
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
哇，哇，哇。
It says in the rules that she has to say whether she pleads guilty or not guilty.
规则中规定，她必须表明自己是否认罪。
Not guilty.
无罪。
Woman OK, thank you.
女人 好的，谢谢。
You may proceed.
您可以继续。
Upfront, there's a long table with the executive committee, like a tribunal, with small tables around the room with the other district chairmen, who are like the jurors.
前面有一张长桌，上面摆着执行委员会，就像一个法庭，房间周围有小桌子，上面摆着其他区主席，他们就像陪审员。
Kathy sits at the table nearest the door.
凯西坐在最靠近门的桌子旁。
The charge against her?
对她的指控？
She was accused of endorsing a Democrat in a Phoenix city council race last year.
她被指控在去年凤凰城市议会竞选中支持民主党人。
Ms. Pestis, how long have you been a PC and how long have you been a member of the MCRC?
Pestis女士，您加入PC多久了，加入MCRC多久了？
Excuse me, could you please pronounce my name properly?
打扰一下，您能正确发音我的名字吗？
How long have you been a precinct committee member?
您担任辖区委员会成员多久了？
OK.
好的。
I've been one 40 years.
我已经40年了。
Man Congratulations.
男人恭喜你。
Point of order.
秩序问题。
Please answer the question.
请回答问题。
Please tell me how to pronounce your name.
请告诉我你的名字怎么发音。
It's spelled P-E-T-S-A-S.
拼写为 P-E-T-S-A-S。
Man And it is pronounced?
男人 它的发音是什么？
"Pet-sass." Man That is exactly what I said.
“宠物-sass。”伙计，这正是我所说的。
You said "pes-tass." Woman OK, go ahead.
你说的是“pes-tass”。女人好吧，你继续吧。
And I am Chairman Petsas.
我是佩萨斯主席。
Isaac Arnsdorf Eventually, the prosecutor gives up on the Socratic method and just reads aloud from Kathy's quote in the newspaper, saying something nice about the Democratic city council candidate.
艾萨克·阿恩斯多夫最终，检察官放弃了苏格拉底式的方法，只是大声朗读凯西在报纸上的引言，对民主党市议会候选人说了一些好话。
Kathy argues that this quote is not an endorsement, and the race wasn't even partisan.
凯西认为，这句话并不是背书，而且这场竞选甚至没有党派之争。
One of Kathy's supporters points out that Kari Lake, the gubernatorial candidate who the Stop the Stealers love, she supported Obama in 2008.
凯西的一位支持者指出，“阻止偷窃者”组织喜爱的州长候选人卡里·莱克 (Kari Lake) 在 2008 年支持奥巴马。
The county chair's not having it.
县主席不同意。
I don't know what this has to do with anything, she says.
“我不知道这有什么关系，”她说。
I don't know what this has to do with anything.
我不知道这有什么关系。
Leave that one out.
把那个留下来吧。
I think that means, is this similar kangaroo court going to happen to Ms. Lake, since this is a year later, and you're bringing something up like this.
我认为这意味着，类似的袋鼠法庭是否会发生在莱克女士身上，因为这是一年后的事了，而你却提出了这样的事情。
Are you going to do the same thing to Ms. Lake if she's governor?
如果莱克女士是州长，你会对她做同样的事情吗？
So what are you going to do?
那么你要做什么？
No, stop.
不，停下来。
Answer the question, Kevin.
回答问题，凯文。
Kathy's asked to step out of the room.
凯西被要求走出房间。
She refuses, challenges the secret ballot.
她拒绝了，挑战无记名投票。
I make the motion that this vote be roll call vote and be in the minutes of who voted yay or nay.
我提议本次投票采用唱名投票形式，并将投票赞成或反对的人记录在案。
She goes down fighting, but she goes down.
她在战斗中倒下了，但她还是倒下了。
The verdict is guilty.
判决有罪。
Kathy gets stripped of her voting rights as a precinct committee member.
凯西被剥夺了作为选区委员会成员的投票权。
We talked about it later on the phone.
我们后来在电话里谈到了这件事。
I mean, it feels terrible, you know?
我的意思是，这感觉很糟糕，你知道吗？
It feels gut-wrenching.
感觉很揪心。
This isn't what you work hard for, to be treated this way.
你努力工作并不是为了得到这样的待遇。
Kathy still goes to her district meetings, even though she's not the chair anymore.
凯西仍然参加她的地区会议，尽管她不再是主席了。
The new chair is one of the guys who plotted to overthrow Kathy.
新任主席是密谋推翻凯西的人之一。
There's an ongoing dispute over whether she's allowed to vote on anything.
关于她是否可以对任何事情进行投票一直存在争议。
She spends the meetings needle pointing.
她在会议上总是指指点点。
The meetings open with prayers now.
现在会议以祈祷开始。
That's new.
这是新的。
We pray for those that are volunteering to watch the vote.
我们为那些自愿观看投票的人祈祷。
We pray that if there is any wrongdoing it would be caught and stopped.
我们祈祷，如果有任何不当行为，都会被抓住并制止。
We thank you and pray for each of the precinct committee people.
我们感谢你们，并为每一位辖区委员会人员祈祷。
So Kathy is gritting her teeth, refusing to give up because she's sure the party under this new leadership is bound to implode.
因此，凯西咬紧牙关，拒绝放弃，因为她确信在新领导下的政党注定会崩溃。
And when it does, she wants to be there to pick up the pieces.
当事情发生时，她想在那里收拾残局。
We talked about it with her and her husband Bill over dinner after the meeting.
会议结束后，我们在晚餐时与她和她的丈夫比尔讨论了这个问题。
You know, we're optimistic it'll pass.
你知道，我们很乐观它会过去。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's probably not this cycle.
可能不是这个周期。
It might be another cycle or two, but it will pass.
可能还要再过一两个周期，但它会过去的。
But Kari Lake's 52.
但卡里湖是52。
Bill Petsas Yeah, but without Trump, there's not Lake.
比尔·佩特萨斯：是的，但没有特朗普，就没有莱克。
I mean, I know they're trying to make the movement without Trump, like to survive it.
我的意思是，我知道他们正试图在没有特朗普的情况下开展这场运动，比如生存下去。
But I'm not as optimistic for them that that will happen.
但我对他们的情况并不那么乐观。
I told Bill I wasn't so sure.
我告诉比尔我不太确定。
Making the MAGA movement endure without Trump is what the precinct strategy is all about.
选区战略的目的就是让 MAGA 运动在没有特朗普的情况下持续下去。
It's making election denial a permanent fixture of the GOP, institutionalized within the party organization itself, so deeply ingrained that you can't extract it.
这使得拒绝选举成为共和党的永久固定手段，在党组织内部制度化，根深蒂固，以至于你无法将其提取出来。
You can't just lop off the head.
你不能直接砍掉头。
It's MAGA all the way down.
一路下来都是MAGA。
So we're taking over the Republican Party with the precinct committee strategy.
因此，我们正在通过选区委员会战略接管共和党。
We're taking over all the elections.
我们将接管所有选举。
Suck on this!
吸这个！
Thank you, Steve Bannon.
谢谢你，史蒂夫·班农。
Isaac Arnsdorf, is a national political reporter at the Washington Post.
艾萨克·阿恩斯多夫（Isaac Arnsdorf）是《华盛顿邮报》的全国政治记者。
Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our show.
佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制片人之一。
Isaac is working on a book about the MAGA movement trying to take over the Republican Party and America.
艾萨克正在写一本关于试图接管共和党和美国的 MAGA 运动的书。
It's called Ground Game.
这就是所谓的地面游戏。
It'll be out next fall.
明年秋天就会出来。
Coming up, righteous middle schoolers monitoring a teacher, who of course is supposed to be monitoring them.
接下来，正义的中学生监视老师，老师当然应该监视他们。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
Act Two: I’ll Be Watching You Ira Glass It's This American Life.
第二幕：我会看着你艾拉·格拉斯这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, watching the watchers, people deciding on their own that it is their job to make sure that bad things don't happen, and then beginning their own surveillance of suspected wrongdoers.
今天的节目中，观察者们看到，人们自己决定，确保坏事不会发生是他们的工作，然后开始对可疑的不法行为者进行自己的监视。
We have arrived at Act 2 of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act 2, I'll Be Watching You.
第二幕，我会看着你。
Sixth grade isn't that old, but it's old enough to tell right from wrong.
六年级虽然年纪不大，但也到了明辨是非的年龄了。
And it's old enough to know that adults aren't always perfect.
而且年纪已经足够大了，知道成年人并不总是完美的。
And at Davisville Middle School in Rhode Island, this one sixth grader couldn't help but notice that one of his teachers was doing stuff that just felt a little weird.
在罗德岛州的戴维斯维尔中学，这位六年级学生忍不住注意到他的一位老师正在做一些感觉有点奇怪的事情。
Much, much later, the teacher would be removed from the school for his behavior.
很久很久以后，这位老师会因为他的行为而被学校开除。
But at this stage, early on, this sixth grader was seeing certain things for the first time.
但在这个阶段，这个六年级学生很早就第一次看到某些东西。
Like at Halloween.
就像万圣节一样。
He was making remarks about some of the girls' costumes and makeup that were coming off as creepy and flirtatious.
他对一些女孩的服装和妆容发表了评论，认为这些服装和妆容看起来令人毛骨悚然和轻浮。
What did he say?
他说什么？
Student Like getting in close to them and saying how they're-- this girl's thing looked ridiculous.
学生喜欢接近他们并说他们怎么样——这个女孩的事情看起来很可笑。
He was making fun of her in a way to flirt with her.
他用一种与她调情的方式来取笑她。
And he was standing very close to her physically?
而且他的身体离她很近？
He was just-- he was just getting in closer, and he was kind of leaning in a way where it looked-- it just seemed creepy.
他只是——他只是靠得更近了，而且他有点倾斜——看起来有点令人毛骨悚然。
Something seemed off about it.
事情似乎有些不对劲。
You could just sense it.
你可以感觉到它。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It seemed like she was uncomfortable by it.
看来她对此感到不舒服。
Like, nervously laughing at it.
就像，紧张地笑起来。
Every time this teacher did other things, he says, the kinds of stuff the kids notice, he asked a girl to take off her shoe and wiggle her toes for him, made an unsettling joke about how everybody should come to school in their bathing suits, and as the school year continued, that one girl from Halloween was a special target.
他说，每当这位老师做其他事情时，孩子们注意到的那种事情，他都会要求一个女孩脱掉鞋子，为他扭动脚趾，开一个令人不安的笑话，说每个人都应该穿着泳衣来学校，随着学年的继续，万圣节的一个女孩成为一个特殊的目标。
And I would remember him always stopping the class to make remarks about her or her appearance, or calling her pet names, making a play on her name.
我记得他总是停下来对她或她的外表发表评论，或者称呼她的昵称，玩弄她的名字。
Put it in nursery rhymes or songs.
将其放入童谣或歌曲中。
He just started conversation with her individually in front of the whole class, like talking about stuff that was not related to class, just to make her laugh.
他就当着全班同学的面跟她单独交谈，好像聊一些与班级无关的事情，就是为了逗她笑。
You can notice she's nervously laughing or blushing at it.
你可以注意到她对此紧张地大笑或脸红。
Other kids in the class were weirded out by it.
班里的其他孩子对此感到很奇怪。
Everybody sits there in awkward silence as you do that.
当你这样做时，每个人都尴尬地沉默地坐在那里。
Not that year, no. But she did make comments the next year about how she hated when he would do that.
不是那一年，不是。但第二年，她确实发表了评论，表示她非常讨厌他这样做。
They would say like, oh, he's weird.
他们会说，哦，他很奇怪。
They wouldn't use creepy.
他们不会使用令人毛骨悚然的。
He's weird to us.
他对我们来说很奇怪。
He's weird.
他很奇怪。
I don't like him.
我不喜欢他。
I don't like him being weird.
我不喜欢他表现得很奇怪。
At first in sixth grade, I questioned maybe this is just normal, how teachers act, how some treat girls.
六年级一开始，我质疑这也许是正常的，老师的行为方式，有些人如何对待女孩。
But my friends all confirmed.
但我的朋友们都证实了。
They're like, no, this guy's creepy.
他们说，不，这家伙太可怕了。
I had said it to some of my friends on the bus, some people at the bus stop, too.
我在公交车上对一些朋友说过这句话，在公交车站也对一些人说过。
And they'd be like, oh, yeah.
他们会说，哦，是的。
I noticed that, too.
我也注意到了这一点。
He's really creepy.
他真的很令人毛骨悚然。
Did you know he said blah, blah, blah?
你知道他说的是废话、废话、废话吗？
He did blah blah, blah.
他做了巴拉巴拉，巴拉巴拉。
And I was like, OK, it's obviously not just me thinking.
我当时想，好吧，这显然不仅仅是我一个人在想。
And it wasn't just the way this teacher was with the girls.
这不仅仅是这位老师对待女孩们的方式。
The sixth grader says that he was kind of a jerk with the boys.
这位六年级学生说他对男孩们来说有点混蛋。
He says any kind of off task behavior would get you reprimanded if you were a boy, sent to the office.
他说，如果你是个男孩，任何偏离任务的行为都会让你受到谴责，被送到办公室。
He says a teacher actually bragged that so many kids had complained about him in the past for being strict.
他说，一位老师实际上吹嘘说，过去有很多孩子抱怨他严格。
He said they could try themselves.
他说他们可以自己尝试一下。
Wouldn't do any good.
不会有任何好处。
All this bothered this sixth grader enough that he went to two different adults.
所有这些都让这个六年级学生很烦恼，他去找了两个不同的成年人。
One of them was his mom.
其中之一是他的妈妈。
And he didn't go into a lot of depth, but he told them this teacher is a creep, flirts with the girls in class.
他没有深入探讨，但他告诉他们这个老师是个讨厌鬼，在班上和女孩们调情。
He's a pedo.
他是个恋童癖。
And both adults were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
两个成年人都说，哇，哇，哇，哇，哇。
Take a breath.
吸一口气。
So they're like, don't make such accusations.
所以他们说，不要提出这样的指控。
Don't throw such stuff around because that's a very serious accusation.
不要乱扔这样的东西，因为这是一个非常严重的指控。
And that's perfectly understandable.
这是完全可以理解的。
I understand that.
我明白这一点。
He and his friends couldn't let it go, though.
但他和他的朋友们却无法释怀。
They'd talk about it when they'd hang out, when they were online playing Minecraft or Super Smash Brothers.
当他们出去玩、在线玩《我的世界》或《任天堂明星大乱斗》时，他们会谈论这个话题。
It just seemed wrong.
这似乎是错误的。
And so, lacking any power to do anything else, they talked about it and joked about it.
因此，由于没有任何权力做其他事情，他们谈论这件事并开玩笑。
Finally, they decided to do the one thing you can do when you can't fix what's wrong with the world but still feel a strong sense of outrage.
最后，他们决定做一件事，当你无法解决世界的问题但仍然感到强烈的愤怒时，你可以做一件事。
They became watchers.
他们成为了观察者。
They decided to document everything the teacher did with the girls that seemed weird or inappropriate to them in a Discord channel they set up.
他们决定在他们建立的 Discord 频道中记录老师对女孩所做的一切对他们来说看起来奇怪或不合适的事情。
Discord, if you don't know, is a messaging platform.
如果您不知道的话，Discord 是一个消息平台。
They called the Discord channel--
他们称 Discord 频道为——
Pedo Database.
佩多数据库。
Ira Glass Did you guys think, oh, this is-- we came up with a great name.
Ira Glass：你们有没有觉得，哦，这是——我们想出了一个很棒的名字。
We just did it.
我们刚刚做到了。
Yeah, we just did it because the name was funny.
是的，我们这么做只是因为这个名字很有趣。
To be clear, he knows he's using the word pedo loosely.
需要明确的是，他知道自己使用“pedo”这个词是很宽松的。
The Pedo Database was an inside joke between a small group of boys who hated this teacher because he was so harsh with them.
Pedo 数据库是一小群男孩之间的一个内部笑话，他们讨厌这位老师，因为他对他们太严厉了。
But they were also totally serious about the way he was treating the girls.
但他们对他对待女孩的方式也非常认真。
And is the idea that you think you might accumulate enough evidence that you guys will go to the authorities at some point?
你们是否认为你们可能会积累足够的证据，让你们在某个时候向当局举报？
I don't know what that was.
我不知道那是什么。
I mean, in my log, we just said this is now the official chat that we will later use as evidence against him about pedophilia.
我的意思是，在我的日志中，我们刚刚说这是现在的官方聊天，我们稍后将用它作为针对他恋童癖的证据。
That's the word I used, in case anything does come up in the future and we do turn out to be correct.
这就是我用的词，以防将来发生任何事情并且我们确实是正确的。
And I said, whenever he said something creepy towards the girls in our class, posting quotes with the date here.
我说，每当他对我们班的女孩说一些令人毛骨悚然的话时，他都会在这里贴出带有日期的引言。
Logging the date was actually something they got from watching TV and movies, true crime.
记录日期实际上是他们从电视和电影中获得的东西，真正的犯罪。
Like keeping dates, keeping times, keeping stuff logged on paper.
比如记录日期、时间、将事情记录在纸上。
And then we gave-- I gave an example of something he had said that day, and that's how it began.
然后我们举了一个他那天说过的话的例子，事情就是这样开始的。
What was the thing he had said that day?
那天他说了什么？
He had called a girl the word-- he had said bad to them.
他曾骂过一个女孩——他对她们说过坏话。
Like, bad dog type thing, but then used her name.
比如，坏狗之类的东西，但后来用了她的名字。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
I had under it, said in a flirty way multiple times today towards multiple girls in the class, including-- and then I put the names.
我今天对班上的多个女孩以调情的方式说了很多次，包括——然后我写下了名字。
And evidence posts will be kind of like this.
证据帖子会是这样的。
That's what I said.
我就是这么说的。
That was the establishing like thing there.
这就是那里的建筑。
After that, everybody just-- they understood.
在那之后，每个人都——他们明白了。
And they took it seriously about putting the dates and stuff.
他们很认真地对待日期和其他东西。
And every few weeks, the teacher did something noteworthy enough that one of the boys would jot it down on a pad secretly, right then in class, or type it directly into Discord on his phone, adding an entry to the database log.
每隔几周，老师就会做一些值得注意的事情，以至于其中一个男孩会在课堂上偷偷地把它记在本子上，或者直接在手机上的 Discord 中输入，在数据库日志中添加一个条目。
These kids finished with that teacher, moved on to the next teacher.
这些孩子结束了那位老师的学习，转向下一位老师。
But to keep the log going, they enlisted kids who had him the next year.
但为了让记录继续下去，他们招募了第二年生下他的孩子。
And they read the new entries.
他们阅读了新条目。
It's not like we wanted him to say bad things, but it was satisfying when we did, because then we'd be like, all right, great, another piece for the record.
我们并不是想让他说坏话，但当我们这样做时，我们感到很满足，因为那样我们就会像，好吧，太棒了，又一个记录下来的作品。
Every time he said something, it's like we pictured him punching himself in the face.
每次他说了什么，我们就好像想象他在打自己的脸。
It's interesting to me that it was all boys doing this.
我觉得有趣的是，所有这些都是男孩做的。
I would think that girls would have wanted to get in on it, if they knew it existed.
我认为如果女孩知道它的存在，她们就会想参与其中。
Perhaps they would have, but we didn't bring it up.
也许他们会这么做，但我们没有提出来。
But I'm sure maybe some of them would.
但我确信也许他们中的一些人会。
We just didn't really have any girls in our friend group.
我们的朋友圈里并没有真正的女孩。
Yes, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Ira Glass The reporter who broke this story and revealed the Pedo Database to the world is Amanda Milkovits of the Boston Globe.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 揭露这个故事并向全世界揭露 Pedo 数据库的记者是《波士顿环球报》的阿曼达·米尔科维茨 (Amanda Milkovits)。
And the reason it became public, the reason she wrote a story is that in April of this year, the teacher was removed from his job and put on leave because of allegations that he'd stalked a girl, a pre-teen at the school.
这件事被公开的原因，她写这篇文章的原因是，今年四月，这位老师因为被指控跟踪一名女孩，一名学龄前儿童而被解雇并休假。
After that happened, there was a public appeal to families in the school for any information about other incidents involving this teacher.
事件发生后，学校向家长公开呼吁提供有关该老师其他事件的信息。
And my mom told me about it.
我妈妈告诉了我这件事。
And I told her, oh, well, we have this whole log my friends and I compiled.
我告诉她，哦，好吧，我们有我和我的朋友们整理的整个日志。
I was actually shocked.
我其实很震惊。
I mean, it was almost like we predicted the future when I was like, oh my god, I could-- it all paid off.
我的意思是，这几乎就像我们预测了未来一样，当时我想，天哪，我可以——这一切都得到了回报。
Did you have this feeling of like, I can't believe this is happening, I can't believe that we get to use this thing?
你有没有这样的感觉，我不敢相信这一切正在发生，我不敢相信我们可以使用这个东西？
Definitely.
确实。
Ira Glass Because did you think that it was ever going to pay off, that it was ever going to be used?
Ira Glass：因为你认为它会得到回报，它会被使用吗？
Honestly I didn't think so.
老实说我不这么认为。
I mean, this guy was there for so long.
我的意思是，这家伙在那里呆了这么久。
No one could do anything about him.
没有人能对他做什么。
And for all I knew, they would-- when I brought this up to a lawyer, I thought maybe they would just all laugh at this.
据我所知，他们会——当我向律师提出这个问题时，我想也许他们都会对此一笑置之。
It's a Discord chat with a bunch of people with funny profile photos and names.
这是与一群拥有有趣的个人资料照片和名字的人进行的 Discord 聊天。
I didn't know if that could be used as actual evidence against someone.
我不知道这是否可以用作针对某人的实际证据。
I was very surprised about that.
我对此感到非常惊讶。
Yeah.
是的。
We reached out to this teacher for an interview about all this, but he didn't return our calls or texts.
我们就这一切联系了这位老师进行采访，但他没有回复我们的电话或短信。
One thing about this story, the name of the teacher has not been made public, or the names of the minors involved, including the boys who ran the Pedo Database.
关于这个故事的一件事是，老师的名字尚未公开，所涉及的未成年人的名字也没有公开，其中包括管理 Pedo 数据库的男孩。
In fact, the voice that you've been hearing for this interviewee is a young actor, Azhy Robertson, who's imitating the real student as closely as possible to keep that kid anonymous.
事实上，您听到的这位受访者的声音是一位年轻演员阿兹·罗伯逊 (Azhy Robertson)，他正在尽可能模仿真实的学生，以使那个孩子保持匿名。
Though after reporter Amanda Milkovits published her story in the Boston Globe, it was picked up widely, got passed around on social media, and, naturally, the news got back to the school.
尽管记者阿曼达·米尔科维茨在《波士顿环球报》上发表了她的故事后，它被广泛转发，并在社交媒体上传播，消息自然也传回了学校。
We had seen some people reposting it on Instagram.
我们看到有些人在 Instagram 上转发了它。
I think I heard a couple of people talking about-- my friend told me that his-- a lot of people in his math class were talking about it.
我想我听到几个人在谈论——我的朋友告诉我他的——他的数学课上很多人都在谈论这个。
This is a friend that was part of the log with me.
这是一个和我一起记录的朋友。
Wait a minute.
等一下。
And so people were talking about it at school.
所以人们在学校里谈论这件事。
Do they know it's you?
他们知道是你吗？
Not the ones that weren't involved in the log.
不是日志中未涉及的那些。
Because obviously staying anonymous to protect the integrity of the case is a big-- is important.
因为显然保持匿名以保护案件的完整性非常重要。
And so what's it like for you?
那对你来说怎么样？
You're like Clark Kent going around.
你就像四处走动的克拉克·肯特。
You can't tell anybody you're Superman.
你不能告诉任何人你是超人。
[LAUGHS] Yeah, somewhat.
[笑]是的，有一点。
I mean, I'm not really-- I didn't do this for fame.
我的意思是，我并不是真的——我这样做并不是为了名誉。
I'm not looking for that.
我不是在寻找那个。
I mean, it's cool that people know what we did, but--
我的意思是，人们知道我们做了什么，这很酷，但是——
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
I'm picturing you in the lunchroom, and people are talking about what you guys did.
我想象你在餐厅里，人们正在谈论你们所做的事情。
And then you have to keep your mouth shut and be like-- you can't say like, oh, that's me.
然后你必须闭嘴，就像——你不能说，哦，那是我。
I don't overhear a lot of the background chatter, but some of my friends do.
我不会无意中听到很多背景闲聊，但我的一些朋友却听到了。
And I can imagine for them it might be like, I don't know, hard to keep their mouth shut.
我可以想象，对于他们来说，我不知道，很难让他们闭嘴。
And it's not hard for you to keep your mouth shut?
而且你闭嘴也不难吧？
Not at all, no. Ira Glass After the teacher got put on leave and the Pedo Database made the news, a young woman, an adult, came forward and said that she'd also been harassed by the same teacher years ago.
一点也不，不。艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在这位老师被休假并且 Pedo 数据库成为新闻后，一位年轻的成年女性站出来表示，她几年前也曾被同一位老师骚扰过。
She wrote a letter to the Pedo Database boys.
她给 Pedo 数据库的男孩们写了一封信。
She said, "when we're young, we're told that adults know best, that they know everything.
她说：“当我们年轻的时候，我们被告知成年人最了解，他们知道一切。
Now as an adult, the only thing I know is that stupid kids just turn into even stupider adults.
现在作为一个成年人，我唯一知道的是愚蠢的孩子只会变成更愚蠢的成年人。
When I was a student in this teacher's class, I felt helpless against his harassment and bullying.
当我还是这位老师班上的学生时，我对他的骚扰和欺凌感到无能为力。
None of the other adults took my feelings seriously, not to mention the blind eye that teachers would turn to the creepy relationships that he had with other students.
其他成年人都没有认真对待我的感受，更不用说老师会对他与其他学生的令人毛骨悚然的关系视而不见。
Hearing that the same thing still happening in his class nearly seven years after I left leaves me feeling sad and frustrated with the school system's lack of action.
在我离开近七年后，听到同样的事情仍然在他的班级发生，这让我对学校系统缺乏行动感到悲伤和沮丧。
Thank you so much for standing up for all the students who didn't have a voice.
非常感谢你们为所有没有发言权的学生挺身而出。
You're very brave for taking a stand against something you knew was wrong.
你非常勇敢地坚持反对明知错误的事情。
And you should be very proud of yourselves for that.
你们应该为此感到非常自豪。
Thank you."
谢谢你。”
The boy told me that it felt good to read that.
男孩告诉我，读到这篇文章感觉很好。
It made it feel like a bigger deal, what they'd done.
他们所做的事情让人感觉更重要。
Years ago, I was friends with a political reporter at the Rand Daily Mail, the big opposition newspaper in South Africa back during the height of apartheid.
几年前，我和《兰德每日邮报》的一位政治记者是朋友，该报是种族隔离时期南非最大的反对派报纸。
They published story after story about terrible things the white government was doing back then.
他们发表了一个又一个关于白人政府当时所做的可怕事情的故事。
Over decades, it had little or no effect on the government at all.
几十年来，它对政府影响很小或根本没有影响。
The brutality in bantustans and suppressions of dissent continued.
班图斯坦的残暴行为和对异议的镇压仍在继续。
He and I talked once about what the point of publishing was in that setting.
他和我曾经讨论过在这种情况下出版的意义是什么。
Said that even if it didn't seem to be doing much good right then, he and his editors felt that it was important that there was a record, that someone noted what was happening and wrote it down, so that later nobody could deny it happened.
他说，即使当时看起来效果不大，但他和他的编辑们认为有一个记录很重要，有人注意到正在发生的事情并将其写下来，这样以后就没有人可以否认它的发生了。
Can I say, OK, when I finished writing this story yesterday, that's where I ended this story.
我可以说，好吧，当我昨天写完这个故事时，我就结束了这个故事。
Because it seemed like a good way to capture what these middle school boys had done.
因为这似乎是捕捉这些中学生所做事情的好方法。
But then, today on my way to work, I thought about the Stop the Stealers in Act 1 of today's show.
但是，今天在上班的路上，我想到了今天节目第一幕中的“阻止偷窃者”。
And I realized how that idea, the idea that if you make a factual record of what happened, a truthful record, that in the future nobody can deny it.
我意识到这个想法，如果你对所发生的事情进行事实记录，真实的记录，那么将来没有人可以否认它。
That idea feels like it's from just another era.
这个想法感觉像是来自另一个时代。
Things are so different today.
今天的情况已经大不一样了。
The Stop the Stealers continue to believe a whole set of lies about the 2020 election being stolen, and they are trying to remake the world based on denying what really happened.
阻止偷窃者组织继续相信关于 2020 年选举被窃取的一整套谎言，他们试图在否认真实发生的事情的基础上重塑世界。
And I know that is not an especially uplifting note to end the show on today, but I think in dark times, it does no good to pretend that you're not living in dark times.
我知道这并不是一个特别令人振奋的结束今天节目的方式，但我认为在黑暗时期，假装你没有生活在黑暗时期是没有好处的。
[MUSIC - "WHO'S WATCHING THE WATCHERS" BY LABELLE]
[音乐 - LABELLE 的《谁在看着守望者》]
Well, our program was produced today by Aviva DeKornfeld.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作的。
She also produced Act 2.
她还制作了第二幕。
The people who put together today's show include Chris Benderev, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Cassie Howley, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Will Peischel Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Chris Benderev、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Michael Comite、Cassie Howley、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Will Peischel Nadia Reiman、Ryan Rumery、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Sabrina Hyman, Frank Rizzo, Stephen Richer, Vanessa Barchfield, Robert Fitzgerald, Sandra Dowling, Cheryl Rosado, Sally Grubbs, Susan Knox, the Marietta Diner, Dan Eggan, Ariel Plotnick, Sabby Robinson, Sean Carter, Marilyn Thompson, Jack Hitt, Tim Conlon, Phillip Rakita, and Emily Abbott.
今天特别感谢 Sabrina Hyman、Frank Rizzo、Stephen Richer、Vanessa Barchfield、Robert Fitzgerald、Sandra Dowling、Cheryl Rosado、Sally Grubbs、Susan Knox、the Marietta Diner、Dan Eggan、Ariel Plotnick、Sabby Robinson、Sean Carter、Marilyn Thompson、Jack Hitt、Tim Conlon、Phillip Rakita 和 Emily Abbott。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 750 多集档案。
Also, there are lists of favorites, videos, all kinds of other stuff there.
此外，还有收藏夹、视频和各种其他内容的列表。
Again, thisamericanlife.org This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
同样，thisamericanlife.org This American Life 由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台传送。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he and I went to karaoke together this week.
你知道，这周我和他一起去卡拉 OK。
He sang Britney Spears, but I don't know.
他唱过布兰妮·斯皮尔斯，但我不知道。
He just never gets the lyrics right.
他只是从来没有把歌词写对。
All right, come on.
好吧，来吧。
Honey, one more time.
亲爱的，再来一次。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "WHO'S WATCHING THE WATCHERS" BY LABELLE]
[音乐 - LABELLE 的《谁在看着守望者》]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。