759: A Couple Walks Into a House - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #759 | January 21, 2022 759: A Couple Walks Into a House Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 759 集 | 2022 年 1 月 21 日 759：一对夫妇走进一所房子 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

序言：序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

So for months now, one of our producers, Ben Calhoun, has been working on one of those stories that starts small, and simple, and personal, and then kind of spins out till a whole town is involved.

因此，几个月来，我们的制片人之一本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun）一直在创作这样一个故事，这个故事一开始很小、很简单、很私人，然后逐渐扩大，直到整个城镇都参与其中。

And I honestly don't want to say too much about this.

老实说，我不想对此说太多。

We should just let it unfold.

我们应该让它展开。

And so without further ado, here's Ben.

言归正传，本就来了。

Rob and Reyna Mathis were doing something unusual for parents whose kids had mostly grown up and left home.

罗布·马西斯和雷娜·马西斯正在为那些孩子大多已经长大并离开家的父母做一些不寻常的事情。

They were looking to upsize and get more space.

他们希望扩大规模并获得更多空间。

Their house wasn't small-- five bedrooms on five acres.

他们的房子不小——占地五英亩，有五间卧室。

But Reyna and Rob have a dozen kids, plus grandkids.

但雷纳和罗布有十几个孩子，还有孙子。

And even though most of their children are out of the house, they're the kind of parents adult kids want to spend time with.

尽管他们的大多数孩子都不在家，但他们是成年孩子想要与之共度时光的父母。

And they had a vision, a place with enough land that some of their children would build houses right by them.

他们有一个愿景，一个拥有足够土地的地方，他们的一些孩子可以在他们旁边建造房屋。

By August 2019, they'd been house hunting for months with no luck.

到 2019 年 8 月，他们已经找房子好几个月了，但一无所获。

And then one day, their Realtor sent Reyna a listing that looked promising.

然后有一天，他们的房地产经纪人向雷纳发送了一份看起来很有前途的清单。

So the Mathises drove out to see it in person on a sunny afternoon.

于是，马西斯夫妇在一个阳光明媚的下午开车出去亲自参观。

It was pretty far out in the country.

那是在国内相当遥远的地方。

They went down a long dirt driveway, back into the woods, until they reached an enormous, sprawling lawn.

他们沿着一条长长的泥土车道，回到树林里，直到到达一片巨大的、蔓延的草坪。

And Rob looked around.

罗布环顾四周。

I was picturing-- I'm like, man, I can see all the kids out here.

我在想象——我想，伙计，我可以看到这里所有的孩子。

I'll put a trampoline over there for the grandkids.

我会在那里为孙子们放一个蹦床。

Yeah, were you doing the thing where-- I just bought my first house.

是的，你是不是在做那件事——我刚刚买了我的第一套房子。

And I would just start to picture life in those places.

我就会开始想象那些地方的生活。

Yep, that's exactly what I was doing.

是的，这正是我所做的。

So I'm like, I can make little trails on the property and get some ATVs, and playground over there, buildings right around the property with the family and the kids, and just have a good old time, you know?

所以我想，我可以在房产上走一些小路，买一些全地形车，在那里有游乐场，房产周围的建筑物与家人和孩子们在一起，然后度过一段美好的时光，你知道吗？

I mean, our wheels were spinning of what we could do with that property.

我的意思是，我们正在考虑如何利用该财产。

As they got out of the car, Reyna looked up at the house, a huge, orange, brick colonial, 4,600 square feet, with two-story brick pillars out front.

当他们下车时，雷纳抬头看了看房子，这是一栋巨大的橙色砖砌殖民地风格建筑，面积 4,600 平方英尺，前面有两层砖柱。

When I pulled-- I've always wanted a house with, like, huge pillars and stuff like that.

当我拉的时候——我一直想要一座有巨大柱子之类的房子。

Seeing them pillars, I was like, oh my god, this is it.

看到这些柱子，我心想，天哪，就是它了。

This is the one.

就是这个。

Like, I felt it.

就像，我感觉到了。

I, like, literally felt it.

我确实感觉到了。

And my son, when he got out, he was smiling.

我的儿子出来时，他微笑着。

He was like, mom, you got your pillars, you know?

他说，妈妈，你有自己的支柱，知道吗？

So it was like, yeah, that's me right there.

所以就像是，是的，那就是我。

The group that day was six altogether.

那天一行人一共六人。

There was the Realtor, Rob and Reyna, also their youngest daughter, one of their sons, and the son's girlfriend.

其中有房地产经纪人罗布和雷娜，还有他们最小的女儿、他们的一个儿子以及儿子的女朋友。

They walked in the front door, into a big, echoey foyer.

他们走进前门，进入一个回声很大的门厅。

And they started looking around.

他们开始环顾四周。

They noticed pretty quickly, the house wasn't really staged as much as it was kind of empty.

他们很快就注意到，这座房子并没有真正布置过，而是空荡荡的。

Like, a lot of stuff had been removed.

就像，很多东西被删除了。

So as the group walked into the dining room, there wasn't much in it-- a large cat scratching post in the corner, a dark wood dining room table.

因此，当一行人走进餐厅时，里面并没有什么东西——角落里有一根大猫抓柱，还有一张深色木质餐桌。

Rob looked at a little collection of stuff in the middle of the table, some salt and pepper shakers.

罗布看着桌子中间的一些东西，一些盐瓶和胡椒瓶。

I'm looking at the table, and the placemat was a Confederate flag.

我看着桌子，餐垫上是一面南方联盟的旗帜。

It was kind of like a-- looked kind of like a glass cutting board, but it was made with a flag in it, you know?

它有点像——看起来有点像玻璃切菜板，但它是用一面旗帜制成的，你知道吗？

Sort of like one of those Pyrex, like, glass things that you put hot pots on or something?

有点像耐热玻璃，比如你用来放火锅的玻璃制品之类的？

Yeah, yep.

是的，是的。

Ben Calhoun The Mathises are an interracial couple.

本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 马西斯夫妇是一对跨种族夫妇。

Rob's Black.

罗布的黑人。

Reyna's Mexican-American.

雷纳是墨西哥裔美国人。

The two of them convened a discreet, married couple, eye contact conversation.

他们两人进行了一场谨慎的、已婚的夫妇的眼神交流。

Seems to have gone sort of like, I see it.

好像已经过去了，我看到了。

You see it?

你看到了吗？

OK, we both see it.

好吧，我们都看到了。

I just shook my head.

我只是摇了摇头。

And in my head I was thinking, wow, all right.

我脑子里想，哇，好吧。

Everything and everybody has their own opinion.

每件事、每个人都有自己的看法。

So I'm not even going to pay no attention to this.

所以我什至不会去关注这个。

So you're just like, let's just keep going, see the rest of the house.

所以你就想，让我们继续前进，看看房子的其他部分。

Let's keep on going.

让我们继续前进吧。

Ben Calhoun From there, the tour moved on to the living room, where Reyna spotted something else, a jacket hanging up from the Muskegon Police Department.

本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 从那里，参观团继续前往客厅，雷纳在那里发现了其他东西，一件从马斯基根警察局挂下来的夹克。

They also spotted a photo of two police officers in uniform.

他们还发现了两名身穿制服的警察的照片。

This house, it was out in the country, but it was apparently owned by a police officer who worked in Muskegon, Michigan.

这所房子位于乡下，但显然是由一位在密歇根州马斯基根工作的警察拥有的。

That's where the Mathises live.

那是马西斯一家住的地方。

Reyna gave Rob a nudge.

雷娜推了推罗布。

Rob looked at the coat and turned to their 21-year-old son who'd come with them.

罗布看了看那件外套，然后转向和他们一起来的 21 岁儿子。

I was like, wow, we're in a police house.

我当时想，哇，我们在警察局里。

So I looked at my son.

于是我看着我的儿子。

I said, don't touch nothing, you know?

我说，别碰任何东西，知道吗？

I said, don't touch nothing.

我说了，什么都别碰。

This is kind of how Rob is, gruff, funny.

这就是罗伯的性格，粗鲁，有趣。

Yeah, so-- yeah, so he was like, don't touch nothing.

是的，所以——是的，所以他就像，不要碰任何东西。

So I remember that, because I was laughing.

所以我记得那件事，因为我在笑。

Like, my son is grown.

就这样，我的儿子长大了。

From there, they all went down into the basement, and then into one of the house's two huge garages.

从那里，他们都进入地下室，然后进入房子的两个巨大车库之一。

On the right-hand side of the wall, it was a Confederate flag probably about this big.

在墙的右手边，有一面联邦旗，大概有这么大。

Rob held up his hands, like 2 feet by 3 feet.

罗布举起双手，大约 2 英尺 x 3 英尺。

Then I'm like, man, OK.

然后我就想，伙计，好吧。

And when I turned around and looked directly at the wall behind me, it was a flag from the ceiling down here to the floor, a big flag.

当我转过身来，直视身后的墙壁时，那是一面旗帜，从天花板一直垂到地板上，一面大旗帜。

I'm like, ugh.

我就像，呃。

There was, like, one flag here, one flag there.

好像这里有一面旗帜，那里有一面旗帜。

And I said something like, this is a lot of flags.

我说过，这是很多旗帜。

And the Realtor kind of just laughed it off, you know?

房地产经纪人只是一笑置之，你知道吗？

Then I thought, well, OK.

然后我想，好吧。

So again, I'm looking over at my wife.

我再次看着我的妻子。

I'm like, man, I'm not liking this.

我想，伙计，我不喜欢这个。

I'm really not liking this.

我真的不喜欢这个。

Rob says he glanced over at his kids to see if they were catching on to any of this stuff, especially his youngest daughter, Asia, who was 12 at the time-- shy, sweet.

罗布说，他看了看自己的孩子们，看看他们是否明白了这些东西，尤其是他最小的女儿阿莎，当时她 12 岁——害羞、可爱。

Rob was kind of relieved to see that none of the kids were noticing any of this.

看到孩子们都没有注意到这一切，罗布松了口气。

From there, everyone kind of split up.

从那里开始，每个人都分裂了。

Rob went upstairs, into one of the bedrooms, with his son Monty, the 21-year-old.

罗布和他 21 岁的儿子蒙蒂一起上楼，走进一间卧室。

And hanging on the wall was a single wood picture frame.

墙上挂着一个木相框。

It's the whole empty wall, and there's just one plaque on the wall.

整面墙都是空的，墙上只有一块牌匾。

So I look up at the picture, and I lean in and look at.

于是我抬头看着照片，然后倾身观看。

I'm like, are you kidding me?

我说，你在开玩笑吧？

This is a KKK application.

这是一个 KKK 应用程序。

It was a framed application from the 1920s to join the KKK.

这是一份 20 年代加入三K党的陷害申请。

Rob pulled out his phone and took a picture.

罗布拿出手机拍了一张照片。

In the top corners of the paper, there were illustrated white-robed Klansmen on rearing horses thrusting torches into the air.

报纸的顶角有插图，身穿白袍的三K党成员骑在马上，将火把抛向空中。

The application read, "I, the undersigned, a native-born, true, and loyal citizen of the United States of America, being a white male Gentile person of temperate habits, sound mind, and a believer in the tenets of the Christian religion, the maintenance of white supremacy, and the principles of pure Americanism, do most respectfully apply for membership." Rob was flustered.

申请书上写着：“我，以下签名者，是美利坚合众国土生土长的、真正的、忠诚的公民，是一位习惯节制、思想健全的白人男性外邦人，是基督教教义、维护白人至上主义和纯粹美国主义原则的信徒，我谨以最恭敬的态度申请会员资格。”罗布很慌张。

I say, ah, hell no. We got to go.

我说，啊，不。我们得走了。

We got to go.

我们得走了。

We got to go.

我们得走了。

So my son was like, what's wrong dad?

所以我儿子就想，爸爸怎么了？

I said, this is a Klansman house.

我说，这是三K党人的房子。

We're leaving right now.

我们现在就出发。

I say--

我说——

Oh, so you said it?

哦，原来是你说的？

Rob Mathis I said, it just solidified everything that I was thinking of, that this is what's going on.

罗布·马西斯（Rob Mathis）我说，这巩固了我所想到的一切，这就是正在发生的事情。

So when I saw that, that was immediately, let me get my family out of here.

所以当我看到这一点时，我立即让我的家人离开这里。

All of a sudden, I hear him cussing and coming down the stairs.

突然，我听到他咒骂着走下楼梯。

And he's like, we got to go now.

他说，我们现在得走了。

So I'm like, what's going on?

所以我想，发生了什么事？

And he didn't answer me.

而他没有回答我。

He just walked out the door.

他刚走出门。

My son was right behind him.

我儿子就在他身后。

So me and the Realtor went upstairs to see what was going on.

于是我和房地产经纪人上楼看看发生了什么事。

And she even got emotional.

她甚至变得情绪化。

Like, she started crying.

就像，她开始哭泣。

And I was just standing there like, oh my god, is this real?

我只是站在那里想，天哪，这是真的吗？

Like, what is going on?

比如，发生了什么事？

Rob was outside in a spiral of freaking out.

罗布在外面陷入了惊慌失措的状态。

I said, I don't want to have nothing to do with this house.

我说，我不想和这个房子有任何关系。

It's so much hate in this house, I cannot have my family here.

这所房子里充满了仇恨，我不能让我的家人在这里。

So your mind is just, like, racing through it?

所以你的大脑只是在快速地思考？

Just racing through it.

只是跑过去。

I'm like, we have got to go, you know?

我想，我们得走了，你知道吗？

They probably going to be coming home any minute, or if not, do a drive-by and see all these minorities leaving the house, me a Black man, my wife Hispanic.

他们可能随时都会回家，或者如果不回家，开车路过时会看到所有这些少数族裔离开家，我是黑人，我的妻子是西班牙裔。

And our kids are mixed.

我们的孩子是混合的。

So I'm like, we got to go.

所以我想，我们得走了。

After seeing the application for herself, Reyna came out to talk to Rob.

雷娜亲眼看到申请后，出来与罗布交谈。

He said that, you know, he was like, what if there's bodies, you know?

他说，你知道，他就像，如果有尸体怎么办，你知道吗？

What if they held rallies here?

如果他们在这里举行集会怎么办？

He was just saying all kinds of stuff.

他只是说了各种各样的话。

And I was like-- I didn't even know how to feel.

我什至不知道如何感觉。

Like, I was upset, I was angry, and I was confused, you know?

就像，我很沮丧，我很生气，我很困惑，你知道吗？

I just didn't understand why you would-- it was like, all these flags or whatever, how can you not be a racist?

我只是不明白你为什么会——就像，所有这些旗帜或其他什么，你怎么能不是种族主义者呢？

The Realtor also came out with Reyna.

房地产经纪人也和雷娜一起出来了。

She was apologizing over and over, saying she had no idea.

她一遍又一遍地道歉，说她不知道。

This was her first time inside.

这是她第一次进去。

Reyna found herself trying to make the Realtor feel better.

雷娜发现自己正在努力让房地产经纪人感觉好一点。

I didn't want her to feel like it was her fault or we were blaming her.

我不想让她觉得这是她的错或者我们在责备她。

So I was trying to talk to her.

所以我想和她谈谈。

And then she said-- she started looking at her paperwork.

然后她说——她开始查看她的文件。

She was like, it's an Anderson, Officer Anderson.

她说，这是安德森，安德森警官。

That was the owner of the house, Officer Charles Anderson, who, at the time, was a 21-year veteran of the Muskegon Police Department.

那人就是这所房子的主人，查尔斯·安德森警官，他当时是马斯基根警察局的一名 21 年的退伍军人。

I first read about this a couple years ago in the newspaper, the story with the attention-grabbing power of a bad joke.

几年前，我第一次在报纸上读到这个故事，这个故事就像一个糟糕的笑话一样引人注目。

A couple walks into a police officer's house and sees a KKK application on the wall.

一对夫妇走进一名警察的家，看到墙上有一张三K党的申请表。

And from the beginning, I had so many questions, partly because Muskegon, where all this happened, I grew up across Lake Michigan in Milwaukee.

从一开始，我就有很多问题，部分原因是因为这一切发生的地方马斯基根​​，我是在密尔沃基密歇根湖对面长大的。

And it kind of felt like a place I knew, Rust-Belty, segregated.

感觉就像是我熟悉的一个地方，Rust-Belty，被隔离了。

And I wanted to find out what would happen to the police officer and to this couple who become linked in this awful way after this day in this house.

我想知道警察和这对夫妇在这所房子里的这一天之后会发生什么，他们以这种可怕的方式联系在一起。

It would turn out to be this messy story about race and policing where people's certainty about what's right and wrong would collide with what happens in the real world.

结果这将是一个关于种族和警务的混乱故事，人们对是非的确定性与现实世界中发生的事情发生冲突。

And the place that begins is in Rob and Reyna's house when they get home that night in Act 1-- The Decision.

在第一幕《决定》中，故事开始的地方是罗伯和雷娜那天晚上回家时的家。

When we came home, like, Rob was really upset.

当我们回到家时，罗布真的很沮丧。

It was just hard to talk about, because to go there and see something like that-- I mean, I've dealt with racial stuff, but never-- it was like a slap in the face.

这很难谈论，因为去那里看到类似的事情——我的意思是，我处理过种族问题，但从未处理过——就像打在脸上一记耳光。

And then you're an officer.

然后你就是一名军官。

And I just thought, why would you leave that there if you know you have buyers coming to see your home?

我只是想，如果你知道有买家来看你的房子，你为什么要把它留在那里呢？

So the Mathises debated whether they should do something, specifically whether they should go public about what they saw, a KKK application hanging up in the home of working police officer.

因此，马西斯夫妇争论是否应该采取行动，特别是是否应该公开他们所看到的事情，即挂在工作警官家中的三K党申请书。

Rob and Reyna have had their share of experiences with police.

罗布和雷纳都有过与警察打交道的经历。

Reyna isn't shy that she, in particular, was kind of wild when she was younger.

雷娜并不害羞，尤其是她年轻时有点狂野。

She's tough, no bull [BLEEP], likes to party.

她很坚强，不胡言乱语[BLEEP]，喜欢聚会。

I'm not perfect, she told me.

我并不完美，她告诉我。

And she had a lot of run-ins with cops, some bad, one violent.

她与警察发生了很多冲突，有的很严重，有的很暴力。

But she and Rob both went out of their way to say they think most police officers go to work with good intentions.

但她和罗布都特意表示，他们认为大多数警察上班都是出于善意。

They do their jobs.

他们各司其职。

Rob's retired US Army, a straight arrow.

罗布退役的美国陆军，一支直箭。

I actually don't know if I've ever seen him without an Army baseball hat on.

我实际上不知道我是否见过他不戴陆军棒球帽。

When I put on a uniform and was in the military, you know, I'm doing my job.

当我穿上制服参军时，你知道，我正在做我的工作。

Freedom ain't free.

自由不是免费的。

It's paid with blood and the lives of servicemen just like with the lives of police officers.

这是用军人的鲜血和生命换来的，就像警察的生命一样。

So I respect them.

所以我尊重他们。

They're out there trying to protect people.

他们在那里试图保护人们。

I respect the police and the military with the utmost.

我非常尊重警察和军队。

I have friends that's police.

我有朋友是警察。

That just added to Rob's pileup of feelings about all this.

这让罗布对这一切的感受更加强烈。

And I'm so mad, and I'm upset.

我很生气，我很沮丧。

And I was like, you know, I got to tell somebody.

我当时想，你知道，我必须告诉别人。

And I kept-- I'm going back and forth with my wife.

我一直在和我的妻子一起来回走动。

I said, man, this officer, whoever home this is, I got to tell at least the people in Muskegon, my friends, that he has Klan memorabilia in his house, he has Confederate flags in his house.

我说，伙计，这位军官，无论这是谁的家，我至少要告诉马斯基根的人们，我的朋友们，他家里有三K党纪念品，他家里有南方联盟旗帜。

And what is your opinion on him doing his job as a police officer and being fair to everybody when he stops them?

您对他履行警察的职责并在阻止他们时公平对待每个人有何看法？

Rob and Reyna found themselves on opposite sides of this question about whether to go public.

罗布和雷纳发现自己在是否上市的问题上处于对立面。

In general, Rob and Reyna seem like a very close, affectionate couple.

总的来说，罗布和雷娜看起来是一对非常亲密、深情的夫妻。

Like, at some point, I took a spin through Rob's Facebook photos, and they're basically three things-- Rob and Reyna taking selfies together, kissing each other on the cheek, or cracking each other up, pictures of Reyna where Rob's bragging about how beautiful she is, and then there's photos of Reyna's cooking, where he's bragging about how good it is.

就像，在某个时候，我浏览了罗布的 Facebook 照片，它们基本上是三件事——罗布和雷娜一起自拍，亲吻对方的脸颊，或者互相开怀大笑，罗布吹嘘雷娜的照片有多漂亮，然后是雷娜做饭的照片，他吹嘘它有多好吃。

Reyna got why Rob wanted to say something about this officer.

雷纳明白罗布为什么想谈论这位警官。

But she worried, what about backlash?

但她担心，会出现反弹吗？

What if things got nasty?

如果事情变得糟糕怎么办？

What if I had something happen here?

如果我在这里发生什么事怎么办？

Do I call the police?

我要报警吗？

That was my biggest fear.

这是我最大的恐惧。

Like, they work with him.

就像，他们和他一起工作。

They've worked with him for years.

他们已经和他一起工作了很多年。

Are they going to be on my side?

他们会站在我这边吗？

Are they really going to try to help me?

他们真的会尽力帮助我吗？

Rob and Reyna were deciding whether to stick their necks out.

罗布和雷纳正在决定是否要冒险。

It was a version of what I think is a common experience when you aren't white.

我认为这是非白人时常见的经历。

I say that as an Asian-American.

我作为一个亚裔美国人这么说。

And I know I don't speak for anybody else.

我知道我不代表任何人说话。

But like, things will happen.

但就像，事情会发生。

Little things will happen.

小事将会发生。

Big things will happen.

大事将会发生。

And you'll have to decide, what's going on here?

你必须决定，这里发生了什么？

Is it worth the trouble to say something?

值得费心去说些什么吗？

Is it worth the blowback?

值得反击吗？

Maybe most of all, will speaking up do any good?

也许最重要的是，说出来会有什么好处吗？

Like, what will it accomplish?

比如，它会实现什么？

Rob was arguing principle.

罗布正在争论原则。

Shouldn't we do something about this cop?

我们不应该对这个警察做点什么吗？

Reyna was arguing practicality.

雷纳争论的是实用性。

What'll that mean for us?

这对我们意味着什么？

They go around and around.

他们绕来绕去。

Eventually, Rob tells Reyna he's going to go pray about it.

最后，罗布告诉雷纳他要为此祈祷。

He goes down into the basement, to his office.

他走进地下室，来到他的办公室。

After a while, he came to a thought that made up his mind.

过了一会儿，他有了一个想法，下定了决心。

I was thinking to myself, OK, what if my son was out riding with his girlfriend, and this officer pulled him over, and snatched him out the car, and did some things that weren't, you know.

我心里想，好吧，如果我的儿子和他的女朋友一起出去骑车，这位警察把他拦在路边，把他从车里抓出来，然后做了一些不该做的事情，你知道，该怎么办。

And it wasn't good, you know?

这并不好，你知道吗？

And any person-- it could happen to anybody.

任何人——这都可能发生在任何人身上。

Rob just couldn't get past that image, this officer, at night, mistreating a young couple.

罗布无法忘记这个画面，这位警官在晚上虐待一对年轻夫妇。

Finally, he came up and he said, I have it on my heart.

最后，他上来了，他说，我心里有数。

I feel like I need to warn people.

我觉得我有必要警告人们。

So I said, you know what, I said, if that's what you really feel, I said, then do it.

所以我说，你知道吗，我说，如果那是你真正的感受，我说，那就去做吧。

So Rob Mathis drafted a Facebook post, and he showed it to Reyna.

因此，罗布·马蒂斯 (Rob Mathis) 起草了一篇 Facebook 帖子，并将其展示给雷纳 (Reyna)。

"I feel sick to my stomach," he wrote, knowing that he toured the home of, quote, "one of the most racist people in Muskegon, hiding behind his uniform, and possibly harassing people of color." He included a picture of the framed KKK application hanging on the wall.

“我感到胃部不适，”他写道，因为他知道自己参观了“马斯基根种族主义最严重的人之一的家，他躲在制服后面，可能骚扰有色人种。”他附上了一张挂在墙上的镶框三K党申请书的照片。

Rob and Reyna talked about it, and they made a decision not to name the officer.

罗布和雷纳讨论了此事，并决定不透露该警官的姓名。

They posted it.

他们发布了它。

And then the Mathises went to sleep.

然后马西斯一家就睡着了。

Act 2-- It Begins.

第二幕——开始。

By the time Rob and Reyna woke up, the comments on Rob's post had taken off, exploded actually, to a degree they hadn't expected.

当罗布和雷娜醒来时，罗布帖子上的评论已经开始流行，实际上是爆炸性的，达到了他们意想不到的程度。

There were outraged people supporting them, outraged people criticizing them.

有愤怒的人支持他们，也有愤怒的人批评他们。

Because of the societal disaster that is Facebook, everyone very quickly transposed their culture war baggage onto this situation-- Black lives, blue lives, people, no kidding, arguing about Colin Kaepernick in the comments.

由于 Facebook 带来的社会灾难，每个人很快就把他们的文化战争包袱转移到了这种情况上——黑人的生活，蓝色的生活，人们，不开玩笑，在评论中争论科林·卡佩尼克。

There was racism, comments like, "lol, what a crybaby-ass Black guy.

存在种族主义，诸如此类的评论：“哈哈，真是个爱哭鬼的黑人。

Probably couldn't afford the house anyways," which aggravated Rob, who was like, our house is worth more than that house.

反正可能买不起房子，”这让罗勃很恼火，他说，我们的房子比那栋房子值钱。

We were going to make money on this move.

我们打算通过这一举措赚钱。

To give you a quick sense of Muskegon, Michigan, it's 38,000 people.

为了让您快速了解密歇根州马斯基根市，这里有 38,000 名人口。

The city is blue-collar, Democratic, Rust-Belt, 32% Black.

这座城市是蓝领、民主、铁锈地带，32% 是黑人。

But it's surrounded by rural areas that are heavily White, heavily conservative, where it's not uncommon to see Confederate flags on trucks.

但它周围都是白人占主导地位、保守派占多数的农村地区，卡车上挂着南部邦联旗帜的现象并不少见。

The Black population is large enough that it doesn't have political control, but it isn't far from it.

黑人人口数量足够多，以至于没有政治控制权，但离政治控制权也相差不远。

And that adds tension to politics, especially in situations about race.

这增加了政治紧张局势，尤其是在种族问题上。

It's a divided place in our divided country.

这是我们分裂国家的一个分裂的地方。

On Rob's post, a bunch of people argue that having a KKK application in your home was about freedom of speech.

在 Rob 的帖子中，很多人认为在家中安装 KKK 应用程序关乎言论自由。

"It's a free country," someone wrote.

“这是一个自由的国家，”有人写道。

"Not saying I'm OK with the KKK or racism at all, but it's his personal choice to be an idiot.

“并不是说我完全同意三K党或种族主义，但成为一个白痴是他个人的选择。

You can't change that." Someone wondered if it was part of a legitimate collection of historical memorabilia.

你无法改变这一点。”有人想知道它是否是合法历史纪念品收藏的一部分。

Other people pushed back.

其他人则予以反击。

"Memorabilia of what, exactly?

“到底是什么纪念品？

Memorabilia of killing people of color?"

杀害有色人种的纪念品？”

People debated about what this meant about the way this officer must be doing his job.

人们争论这对这位警官的工作方式意味着什么。

Some called for Anderson to be fired.

一些人呼吁解雇安德森。

Others called for an investigation.

其他人则呼吁进行调查。

People pleaded for Rob to name the officer, to expose who he was.

人们恳求罗布说出这名警官的名字，以揭露他的身份。

And Rob did.

罗布做到了。

Breaking right now at 6 o'clock, a disturbing discovery, a KKK item found at the home of a Muskegon police officer.

6点钟，一个令人不安的发现发生了，在一名马斯基根警察的家中发现了一件三K党物品。

The story was on TV news within hours of when Rob posted on Facebook.

罗伯在 Facebook 上发帖后几个小时内，这个故事就上了电视新闻。

Reporters were inundating the Mathises and showing up at Anderson's house.

记者们蜂拥而至，涌向马西斯夫妇并出现在安德森的家中。

One reporter who drove to Anderson's home caught up with his wife, Rachael, at the screen door.

一名记者开车前往安德森家，在纱门处遇见了他的妻子瑞秋。

I can't say anything right now.

我现在什么也不能说。

I wish we could, because it would probably set a lot of things straight.

我希望我们可以，因为这可能会解决很多问题。

But--

但是——

That'd be the last public word the Andersons said to the media about this.

这是安德森家族就此事向媒体发表的最后一句话。

For this story, I reached out to Officer Anderson and his wife many times, called, wrote.

为了这个故事，我多次联系安德森警官和他的妻子，打电话，写信。

Eventually I reached them.

最终我到达了他们身边。

Officer Anderson declined to speak about any of this, saying the police unit advised him not to talk.

安德森警官拒绝谈论此事，称警察部门建议他不要谈论此事。

His wife did agree to talk about one aspect of what happened.

他的妻子确实同意谈论所发生事情的一方面。

I'll get to that in a bit.

我稍后会谈到这一点。

There were two Muskegon city officials who were going to have to figure out what to do about this situation.

马斯基根市的两名官员必须弄清楚如何应对这种情况。

There's a police chief, of course, but also this guy named Frank Peterson, Muskegon's city manager.

当然，有一位警察局长，但也有一个名叫弗兰克·彼得森的人，他是马斯基根的城市经理。

He's the person in charge of running city government, and he'd be part of all the big decisions.

他是市政府的负责人，他将参与所有重大决策。

Frank's an energetic 41, a dad who drinks Mountain Dew on his way to work instead of coffee, an upbeat, let's get it done type.

弗兰克 (Frank) 41 岁了，精力充沛，是一位在上班路上喝激浪 (Mountain Dew) 饮料而不是咖啡的父亲，他是一个乐观、“让我们把事情做好”的类型。

He says the morning after Rob Mathis posted on Facebook, he sat down with the police chief in a windowless conference room at City Hall, just the two of them.

他说，罗布·马西斯在脸书上发帖后的第二天早上，他和警察局长在市政厅一间没有窗户的会议室里坐下来，只有他们两个人。

They're both White.

他们都是白人。

They were wrestling with this.

他们正在为此苦苦挣扎。

I remember, you know, sitting there at that conference table with the chief.

我记得，你知道，我和主管坐在那张会议桌旁。

I think it was disbelief and then immediately-- and we-- more angry, right, angry at Charles, going, how could he put us in this situation?

我认为这是难以置信，然后我们立即更加生气，对，对查尔斯生气，去，他怎么能让我们陷入这种境地？

By Charles, he means the officer, Charles Anderson.

他所说的查尔斯是指军官查尔斯·安德森。

Peterson admitted, at first, they weren't asking the question of what this officer believed or did on the job.

彼得森承认，起初，他们并没有问这位警官在工作中相信什么或做了什么。

You know, it wasn't even about, a-ah, we knew.

你知道，这甚至不是关于，啊，我们知道。

We thought maybe he was racist.

我们认为他可能是种族主义者。

Like, the idea of that it was racist wasn't even in our mind at this point.

就像，此时我们甚至没有想到这是种族主义的想法。

It was like, I mean, for lack of a better term, just like, how could you be so dumb?

就像，我的意思是，因为缺乏更好的词，就像，你怎么能这么笨？

You know how could-- how could you be so dumb to put yourself and this community in this position?

你知道你怎么能——你怎么能如此愚蠢地将自己和这个社区置于这种境地？

Like, why is that there?

比如，为什么会在那里？

And why are you inviting people into your house to see it?

你为什么邀请人们到你家来参观？

Of all the things that we have to do around here, of all the things that-- all the trouble I could get into with decisions I make or don't make, the biggest decision that we had to make now was something that had absolutely-- at the end of the day, had absolutely nothing to do with us.

在我们必须在这里做的所有事情中，在所有我做出或不做的决​​定可能会遇到的麻烦中，我们现在必须做出的最大决定是绝对与我们无关的事情。

It was something he did off-hours at home.

这是他在下班时间在家做的事情。

What the heck?

到底是什么？

You know, just a bonehead decision.

你知道，这只是一个愚蠢的决定。

The police chief, beholding that bonehead decision with Peterson that morning, sitting across the conference table, was a guy in his mid 60s named Jeff Lewis.

那天早上，坐在会议桌对面的警察局长看到了彼得森做出的愚蠢决定，他是一个 60 多岁的人，名叫杰夫·刘易斯 (Jeff Lewis)。

Lewis looks like a baseball GM from the '80s-- floppy hair, mustache.

刘易斯看上去就像一位 80 年代的棒球总经理——蓬松的头发，留着小胡子。

A little context on Lewis-- he was hired as director of public safety in Muskegon 10 years ago.

关于刘易斯的一些背景知识——十年前，他被聘为马斯基根公共安全总监。

He was brought in as a reformer.

他被任命为改革者。

He's a community policing guy.

他是一名社区警察。

During his 10 years as chief, he's added body cams, improved the department's dash cams, implemented tougher psychological screening for hiring, and significantly increased the number of non-White officers, though its still pretty low, about a tenth of the force.

在担任局长的 10 年里，他增加了随身摄像头，改进了该部门的行车记录仪，对招聘实施了更严格的心理筛查，并显着增加了非白人警官的数量，尽管仍然很低，约为警力的十分之一。

When this situation popped up with Officer Anderson's house, Lewis didn't dither.

当安德森警官家里出现这种情况时，刘易斯并没有犹豫。

The first thing I did, my instant move, was to remove him from the patrol division right then.

我做的第一件事，即我立即采取的行动，就是立即将他从巡逻队中除名。

I didn't come in the next day, and we didn't spend time reviewing this.

第二天我没有来，我们也没有花时间回顾这个。

I instantly put him on what we call paid administrative leave so no further damage could happen.

我立即让他休了我们所谓的带薪行政假，这样就不会发生进一步的损害。

Can't come back to department.

回不了部门了

Turn your badge and gun in, so on and so forth.

把你的徽章和枪交出来，等等。

And then you just go back to your civilian life.

然后你就回到平民生活。

And then we look into it.

然后我们调查一下。

Chief Lewis pulled in his internal affairs team and ordered them to start an investigation.

刘易斯局长召集了他的内政团队，并命令他们开始调查。

First thing he wanted was the basic facts.

他首先想要的是基本事实。

Was this Facebook thing true?

Facebook 的事情是真的吗？

Did Officer Anderson have this stuff up in his house, and why?

安德森警官家里有这些东西吗？为什么？

That first day, the city released a short public statement, basically the standard, the officer's on leave.

第一天，该市发布了一份简短的公开声明，基本上是标准的，该官员正在休假。

We're investigating.

我们正在调查。

More later.

稍后再说。

Act 4-- We Know That Guy.

第四幕——我们认识那个人。

Turns out the officer involved here was already famous in Muskegon, for another controversial incident, even before the Mathises posted online.

事实证明，涉案警官在马斯基根就因另一起有争议的事件而闻名，甚至在马西斯在网上发布信息之前。

Though Rob and Reyna didn't realize that when they heard his name.

尽管罗布和雷娜听到他的名字时并没有意识到这一点。

The officer at the center of this also has a controversial past.

这位处于这起事件中心的军官也有一段颇受争议的过去。

10 years ago, he shot and killed a man.

10年前，他开枪打死了一名男子。

The man Anderson shot was 23-year-old Julius Johnson.

安德森被枪杀的男子是 23 岁的朱利叶斯·约翰逊。

It started when Muskegon police pulled over a car at 1:30 in the morning near--

事情始于凌晨 1 点 30 分，马斯基根警察拦下一辆汽车，附近——

What happened?

发生了什么事？

This was in 2009.

这是2009年的事。

During a traffic stop, a young man, Julius Johnson, who people called JuJu, dropped a bag of drugs and ran.

在一次交通堵塞中，一位名叫朱利叶斯·约翰逊（人们称他为 JuJu）的年轻人丢下一袋毒品就跑了。

Anderson chased Johnson down a dark street, tackled him, fought with him.

安德森在一条黑暗的街道上追赶约翰逊，抓住他，与他打斗。

Anderson said Johnson started winning, and he shot him in self-defense.

安德森说约翰逊开始获胜，他出于自卫向他开枪。

Johnson's sister lived on that block.

约翰逊的姐姐住在那个街区。

She said she saw everything, and Anderson was lying.

她说她看到了一切，安德森在撒谎。

And my brother said, please do not shoot me.

我哥哥说，请不要开枪打我。

And they shot him-- cold blood, just shot him.

他们开枪打死了他——冷血，开枪打死了他。

The Muskegon County Prosecutor's office investigated the shooting and her allegations and turned up a security camera recording that backed up Anderson's version of the story.

马斯基根县检察官办公室调查了这起枪击事件和她的指控，并调出了安全摄像机的录音，支持了安德森的故事版本。

And so he was cleared.

于是他就被清白了。

Prosecutors actually brought charges against Johnson's sister for lying, and she went to jail for that.

检察官实际上对约翰逊的妹妹提出了撒谎指控，她因此入狱。

I talked to the head of the local NAACP about the JuJu Johnson shooting.

我与当地全国有色人种协进会的负责人谈论了朱朱·约翰逊枪击事件。

He's a retired Muskegon police officer and a big police reform proponent.

他是一名退休的马斯基根警官，也是警察改革的大力支持者。

He said Anderson chasing Johnson, getting himself into that fight, that was questionable policing, noting Johnson was well-known.

他说安德森追赶约翰逊，让自己卷入这场打斗，这是值得怀疑的治安行为，并指出约翰逊是众所周知的。

Would have been easy to track him down later and arrest him.

以后很容易找到他并逮捕他。

But given the evidence, in terms of police policy, it was, quote, "a good shooting."

但鉴于证据，就警方政策而言，引用的话，这是“一次很好的枪击事件”。

Still, even though Anderson was cleared, as soon as the Mathises posted about the KKK application in Anderson's house, people were calling him JuJu's killer in the comments.

尽管如此，尽管安德森被清白了，但当马西斯夫妇在安德森家里发布三K党申请时，人们在评论中称他为杀害朱朱的凶手。

It was like these two things clicked together, like they explained each other.

就好像这两件事契合在一起，就像它们互相解释一样。

People were like, see, I knew it.

人们就像，看，我知道。

That guy's racist.

那家伙是种族主义者。

City officials had to confront all of this in a new way not even a week after the Mathises posted.

在马西斯发帖后不到一周，市政府官员就必须以新的方式面对这一切。

Muskegon was scheduled to have a city commission meeting, which usually are pretty sleepy, but not this one.

马斯基根原定要召开一次市委员会会议，会议通常都很昏昏欲睡，但这次却不然。

[GAVEL SOUNDING] Man Good evening, everyone.

[木槌响起] 伙计，大家晚上好。

I know that we probably do have a number of individuals that are here due to the concern with one of Muskegon's police officers.

我知道我们可能确实有很多人因为担心马斯基根的一名警察而来到这里。

People took turns talking, all of them concerned, upset.

人们轮流说话，个个都很关心，都很沮丧。

No one was there to support Anderson.

没有人在那里支持安德森。

What struck me the most watching it was that three out of the seven people who spoke about Anderson said that they had personally had bad experiences with him, they, themselves.

最让我印象深刻的是，在谈论安德森的七个人中，有三人表示，他们个人对他、他们自己都有过不好的经历。

Like, there was a woman named Ebony Davis, who's Black.

比如，有一个名叫 Ebony Davis 的黑人女性。

She's one of Muskegon's leading activists around all kinds of issues, definitely race and policing.

她是马斯基根在各种问题上的主要活动家之一，尤其是种族和治安问题。

Ebony brought a petition signed by a thousand people calling for Anderson to be fired.

埃博尼带来了一份由一千人签名的请愿书，要求解雇安德森。

But she also said that just the other week, she, herself, had witnessed Anderson doing something messed up.

但她也表示，就在上周，她亲眼目睹了安德森做了一些混乱的事情。

Officer Anderson has a history of harassing minorities and being very cocky.

安德森警官有骚扰少数族裔的历史，而且非常自大。

I've seen it with my own eyes.

我亲眼所见。

I even threatened to report him.

我什至威胁要举报他。

And he laughed at me and said, nothing's going to happen to me.

他嘲笑我说，我不会有什么事的。

Ebony told me later that she and another woman had actually gone to City Hall.

乌木后来告诉我，她和另一个女人实际上去了市政厅。

And they were in the middle of filing an official complaint when they saw the Mathis' post about the KKK application.

当他们看到马蒂斯关于三K党申请的帖子时，他们正在提交正式投诉。

They were both like, wouldn't it be crazy if this was the same officer we're complaining about?

他们俩都想，如果这就是我们抱怨的同一位警官，那不是很疯狂吗？

It seemed so nuts, they both laughed.

看起来太疯狂了，两人都笑了。

After Ebony, a gentle-looking guy in glasses named Lowell Kirksey came to the mic.

在 Ebony 之后，一位戴着眼镜、名叫洛厄尔·柯克西 (Lowell Kirksey) 的、看上去很温和的家伙来到了麦克风前。

Mr. Kirksey.

柯克西先生。

Ben Calhoun Now city officials knew Lowell Kirksey.

本·卡尔霍恩 现在市政府官员认识洛厄尔·柯克西。

He's a retired city employee, ran the city's youth rec programs for years.

他是一名退休的城市雇员，多年来一直负责该市的青少年娱乐项目。

Lowell said he'd crossed paths with Anderson three times.

洛厄尔说他和安德森有过三次接触。

Once, Anderson had come to his house over something minor, a construction permit, and was weirdly aggressive.

有一次，安德森来到他家是为了一些小事，比如一份建筑许可证，而且态度怪异，咄咄逼人。

He said his neighbor had a bad incident with him too.

他说他的邻居也和他发生了一件坏事。

And then there was this thing at City Hall.

然后市政厅就有了这件事。

As a city employee, we faced having to deal with Officer Anderson driving his truck onto city property with his Dixie flag showing.

作为一名城市雇员，我们面临着不得不处理安德森警官驾驶他的卡车进入城市财产并展示他的迪克西旗的情况。

But for many of the Black employees of the city at the time, it was very disturbing for us to see that.

但对于当时该市的许多黑人雇员来说，看到这一点非常令人不安。

And during--

而期间——

Lowell later explained to me this thing happened around the time Barack Obama was elected.

洛厄尔后来向我解释说，这件事发生在巴拉克·奥巴马当选前后。

Anderson started driving around with a big Confederate flag all the way across the back window of his pickup truck, parking it like that at City Hall.

安德森开始在他的皮卡车后窗上挂着一面巨大的南部邦联旗帜，然后把它停在市政厅。

Lowell and other Black employees complained about it.

洛厄尔和其他黑人员工对此表示抱怨。

Then it stopped.

然后它就停了。

But Lowell's point was none of this was news.

但洛厄尔的观点是，这一切都不是新闻。

The signs were there, sitting out in the open.

标志就在那里，露天放置。

Like, maybe it shouldn't have required the Mathises finding a KKK application on his wall for someone to scrutinize this police officer.

就像，也许马西斯不应该在他的墙上找到三K党的申请表，让某人来审查这位警察。

In the room, listening to all this testimony, were the police chief, Jeff Lewis, and Muskegon city manager, Frank Peterson.

警察局长杰夫·刘易斯和马斯基根市经理弗兰克·彼得森在房间里听取了所有这些证词。

Peterson was actually up on the dais.

彼得森实际上站在讲台上。

He told me he and Chief Lewis were texting back and forth while people spoke, and they were alarmed by what they were hearing.

他告诉我，当人们说话时，他和刘易斯酋长正在来回发短信，他们对所听到的内容感到震惊。

A lot of people were saying, wait a minute, I know that person.

很多人都说，等一下，我认识那个人。

He dealt-- he treated me this way.

他这样对待我。

He called me this.

他这样称呼我。

That's when it became kind of real to me.

就在那时，它对我来说变得有点真实了。

It was, holy smokes, this officer, over the last 15 years, he could have interacted with 5,000 people, 5,000 different interactions.

天啊，这位军官，在过去 15 年里，他本可以与 5,000 个人进行互动，进行 5,000 次不同的互动。

And were three of them bad, and we just happened to hear about them finally?

他们三个是不是很坏，而我们只是碰巧听说了他们？

Or were 30% of them, you know, bad?

或者其中 30% 是坏的？

You know, it really helped you see the scope, right, of how difficult it was going to be to validate or invalidate the concerns that people had, that maybe they weren't high enough-- a high enough level of mistreatment to where they resulted in a formal complaint, but they were obviously happening, or appeared that they were obviously happening.

你知道，它确实帮助你了解了验证或否定人们的担忧的范围，对吧，这将是多么困难，也许它们不够高——足够高的虐待程度，导致正式投诉，但它们显然正在发生，或者看起来它们显然正在发生。

So the question now facing the city was the question that was kind of baked into this from the start, from the moment Rob and Reyna saw that stuff in Officer Anderson's house.

所以现在这座城市面临的问题是从一开始就存在的问题，从罗布和雷纳在安德森警官家里看到那些东西的那一刻起。

Did that KKK application on Charles Anderson's wall correspond to 21 years of mistreating people on the job?

查尔斯·安德森 (Charles Anderson) 墙上的三K党申请是否对应了 21 年在工作中虐待他人的经历？

That brings us to Act 5 of our story, Officer Anderson On the Job.

这就把我们带到了故事的第五幕，安德森警官在职。

I heard a pile of stories of the way Officer Anderson did his job, and I'm going to tell you one of them.

我听过一堆关于安德森警官工作方式的故事，我要告诉你其中一个。

Because it's a great example of how he could be.

因为这是他的一个很好的例子。

This thing that happened, happened to a man named Hamid Stalling, who everyone calls Duke.

这件事发生在一个名叫哈米德·斯托林（Hamid Stalling）的人身上，大家都称他为杜克（Duke）。

These days, Duke's in real estate, a family guy, married with four kids that he dotes on.

如今，杜克从事房地产行业，是一个顾家的男人，已婚并育有四个他宠爱的孩子。

Duke and his family are Black.

杜克和他的家人都是黑人。

Duke told me he remembers the day he saw the story about the Mathises, how they saw a KKK application in a Muskegon police officer's house.

杜克告诉我，他记得那天他看到有关马西斯夫妇的故事，他们如何在马斯基根警官的家里看到三K党的申请。

So Duke says he's reading that.

所以杜克说他正在读这篇文章。

And seeing that there was an officer that had a KKK artifact, whatever in the house-- I hadn't got to his name, because they didn't mention his name right away.

看到有一名军官拥有三K党的文物，不管房子里有什么东西——我不知道他的名字，因为他们没有立即提到他的名字。

I hadn't got to that part.

我还没到那部分。

Ding, ding, ding, though, his name first came in.

叮叮叮，不过，他的名字先出现了。

I didn't even read his name.

我什至没有读过他的名字。

I knew it was him.

我知道是他。

Something in my spirit said, it's Anderson.

我的内心深处有声音在说，这是安德森。

It was Anderson.

是安德森。

And it was like there was a joy.

好像有一种喜悦。

At the same time, there was a sadness.

同时，还有一丝悲伤。

Because I said, well, how did they let this guy continue to do this before somebody had to have this kind of evidence to where--

因为我说，好吧，在有人必须拥有此类证据之前，他们怎么让这个人继续这样做——

Duke's run-in with Officer Anderson happened in the summer of 2010.

杜克与安德森警官的冲突发生在 2010 年夏天。

At the time, Duke was 24.

当时，杜克24岁。

And he says life was good.

他说生活是美好的。

He'd recently become the pastor at a small church, Zion Blue Lake Baptist, which he was really excited about.

他最近成为锡安蓝湖浸信会小教堂的牧师，对此他感到非常兴奋。

And he was working at an office furniture company on the assembly line.

而他正在一家办公家具公司的流水线上工作。

His bosses loved him, and they were on the verge of promoting him.

他的老板们很喜欢他，并且即将提拔他。

And then on July 8, 2010, Duke's mom, Earline, had her 59th birthday party in her backyard.

2010 年 7 月 8 日，杜克的妈妈厄琳在自家后院举办了她的 59 岁生日派对。

It was a family and friends kind of thing, her brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, little boom box playing the OJ's and Teddy Pendergrass, a little bit of dancing.

这是一种家人和朋友的感觉，她的兄弟姐妹、侄女和侄子，小音箱播放橙汁和泰迪·彭德格拉斯，还有一点舞蹈。

Earline was a devout Christian, grew up in the Baptist church.

厄林是一位虔诚的基督徒，在浸信会教堂长大。

She didn't drink, didn't smoke.

她不喝酒，也不抽烟。

It was tame.

它很驯服。

Around midnight, everything had wound down, maybe 15, 20 people left, mostly Duke's aunts and uncles.

午夜时分，一切都结束了，大概只剩下 15、20 个人，其中大部分是杜克的叔叔阿姨。

And Duke was on the front steps talking to a relative when an officer-- this was Officer Anderson-- pulled up in a police cruiser alone and started approaching the house.

杜克正在门前的台阶上与一位亲戚交谈，这时一名警官——这是安德森警官——独自开着一辆警车，开始向房子走近。

Duke says he started towards the backyard to get his parents.

杜克说他开始朝后院去找他的父母。

But Anderson kind of stepped in front of him on the sidewalk next to the house.

但安德森在房子旁边的人行道上走到了他前面。

Duke asked, is everything OK?

杜克问，一切都好吗？

So when I come up to him and I ask him, you know, is everything OK, the first thing he says is, are you the owners of this property?

所以当我走到他面前问他，你知道，一切都好吗，他说的第一句话是，你是这处房产的所有者吗？

And I said, um, well can you tell me what's going on?

我说，嗯，你能告诉我发生了什么事吗？

He was like, are you the owner?

他就问，你是店主吗？

I said, no, but can you tell me going on?

我说，不，但是你能告诉我发生了什么吗？

That's what got him mad.

这就是让他生气的原因。

And that's when he said, do you want to go down for what's about to happen?

就在那时他说，你想因为即将发生的事情而下去吗？

It was an odd thing to say, do you want to go down for what's about to happen?

说起来很奇怪，你想因为即将发生的事情而下去吗？

It startled Duke.

这让杜克大吃一惊。

Now I'm scared.

现在我很害怕。

Because I'm like, what?

因为我想，什么？

What's about to happen?

将会发生什么？

I don't want to know.

我不想知道。

I don't want no problem.

我不想没有问题。

So let me go get somebody that's older that can deal with this.

所以让我去找一个年纪大一些的人来处理这件事。

I don't even know what's going on, because he won't say what's going on.

我什至不知道发生了什么事，因为他不会说发生了什么事。

Duke says he walked down the little sidewalk next to the house, towards the backyard, to get his parents.

杜克说，他沿着房子旁边的小人行道走向后院，去接他的父母。

When he gets to the yard and goes to close the gate behind him, Anderson's right there and kicks the gate back open, hard.

当他到达院子并准备关上身后的门时，安德森就在那里，用力将门踢开。

Like, there was a bang.

就像，有一声巨响。

This is the gate, right?

这就是大门吧？

So we were about right here.

所以我们就在这里。

This is where we were, about right here.

这就是我们所在的地方，大约就在这里。

Duke's mom passed away in 2014.

杜克的母亲于 2014 年去世。

Now he owns the house.

现在房子是他的了。

So he took me outside to show me how things happened in the backyard that night.

于是他把我带到外面，让我看看那天晚上后院发生的事情。

My uncle Dune was sitting over here.

我叔叔沙恩正坐在这儿。

Some people were sitting down.

有些人已经坐下了。

His wife was sitting in the rocking swing.

他的妻子坐在秋千上。

Two other people, they were just over here talking.

另外两个人，他们刚刚在这里说话。

Duke could point to where everything was at that moment, the lights strung around the fence, the picnic tables, where the food was, where the cake was.

杜克可以指出当时所有东西都在哪里，栅栏周围的灯、野餐桌、食物在哪里、蛋糕在哪里。

And you had some people sitting over here talking.

有些人坐在这里说话。

You had maybe, like I said, two or three people dancing.

就像我说的，也许有两三个人在跳舞。

Because it's getting late.

因为时间已经晚了。

It's not really a lot of up, moving, dancing no more.

不再有太多的兴奋、移动、舞蹈了。

But that's all it was.

但仅此而已。

I don't mean this in a funny way, but it sounds like old people sitting.

我并不是以搞笑的方式说这句话，但这听起来就像是老年人坐着一样。

[CHUCKLING] Yeah, I was really trying to say that, but I didn't want to-- yeah, that's really what I was saying.

[咯咯笑] 是的，我真的很想说这个，但我不想——是的，这确实是我想说的。

Yeah, it was old people sitting, eventually about to get ready to go.

是的，那是老人们坐着，最终准备出发。

Because I mean, we probably had another 30 minutes left for them.

因为我的意思是，我们可能还剩下 30 分钟的时间给他们。

All right sister, see you later.

好的，姐姐，待会儿见。

It was about to be over with.

事情快要结束了。

In Anderson's police report, he says Duke slammed the gate on him to push him back, keep him out.

在安德森的警方报告中，他说杜克向他关上了大门，把他推回去，把他拒之门外。

He did that twice.

他这样做了两次。

Anderson would later have Duke charged with assault for this.

安德森后来因此指控杜克犯有袭击罪。

Duke says he just wouldn't have done that to a police officer.

杜克说他不会对警察这样做。

He was worried.

他很担心。

He was scared.

他很害怕。

He didn't want trouble.

他不想惹麻烦。

After that, Duke and Anderson's stories mostly line up.

此后，杜克和安德森的故事大多是一致的。

Anderson writes in his report that he shoved his way into the yard, yelled that Duke was under arrest and going to jail.

安德森在报告中写道，他冲进院子，大喊杜克被捕并入狱。

Duke says his aunts and uncles were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is going on?

杜克说，他的叔叔阿姨们就像是，哇，哇，哇，发生了什么事？

They put their arms in front of Duke to protect him from Anderson.

他们将手臂放在杜克面前，保护他免受安德森的伤害。

And now there's just a bunch of exchanges from him, you're going to jail, da-da-da-da-da.

现在只有他的一堆交流，你就会进监狱，哒哒哒哒哒。

And they're yelling, what did he do?

他们大喊，他做了什么？

He's not going to jail.

他不会进监狱。

He didn't do anything.

他什么也没做。

In his report, Anderson describes the crowd as irate.

安德森在报告中形容人群非常愤怒。

Duke says people were just confused and upset.

杜克说，人们只是感到困惑和不安。

Like, they were not causing any harm to him at all.

就像，他们根本没有对他造成任何伤害。

They wouldn't cause any harm to him.

他们不会对他造成任何伤害。

They wouldn't do anything to him.

他们不会对他做任何事。

Like, nobody's crazy enough to hit a police.

就像，没有人疯狂到殴打警察。

Like my family, we're not crazy.

就像我的家人一样，我们并不疯狂。

Nobody's going to put their hands on a police officer or anything like that.

没有人会把手放在警察或类似的人身上。

And then that's when the mace came out.

然后狼牙棒就出来了。

And, shh, he sprayed.

然后，嘘，他喷了。

It was pepper spray.

那是胡椒喷雾。

Duke remembers a few of his aunts, women in their late 50s, got the worst of it.

杜克记得他的几位姨妈，她们都是 50 多岁的女性，遭遇了最糟糕的情况。

And then it was chaos.

然后一片混乱。

You had people falling, of course, and trying to run to get-- you know, you can't see.

当然，有人摔倒，然后试图逃跑——你知道，你看不到。

You're rubbing your eyes.

你在揉眼睛。

That's scary.

太可怕了。

It's a scary feeling.

这是一种可怕的感觉。

Some people fall.

有些人跌倒了。

Some, I can't see.

有的，我看不到。

You hear a bunch of screaming.

你听到一堆尖叫声。

And so now, but then when that happens, the officers, I don't know how-- I mean, it didn't take them long to get here.

所以现在，但是当这种情况发生时，警官们，我不知道他们是如何——我的意思是，他们没花很长时间就到了这里。

I mean, it was like every officer from the precinct.

我的意思是，就像辖区的每一位警官一样。

They handcuffed Duke and took him away.

他们给杜克戴上手铐并将他带走。

Duke didn't have a record, didn't understand what he'd done.

杜克没有记录，不明白自己做了什么。

They booked him for non-aggravated assault.

他们以非严重袭击罪对他进行了登记。

For months, it seemed like Duke might go to jail, until the charges were finally thrown out.

几个月来，杜克似乎可能会入狱，直到指控最终被驳回。

It all kind of wrecked his life for a while.

这一切一度毁掉了他的生活。

Duke stepped down as pastor of that church.

杜克辞去了该教堂牧师的职务。

He's convinced the company he was working for didn't renew his contract because they saw his mug shot in the paper.

他确信他工作的公司没有续签他的合同，因为他们在报纸上看到了他的照片。

As you make sense of what happened that night at Duke's mom's, consider what Officer Anderson was reportedly there for.

当你了解那天晚上在杜克妈妈家发生的事情时，请考虑一下据报道安德森警官在那里的目的。

It's listed in police records as a noise complaint.

它在警方记录中被列为噪音投诉。

Consider how differently this could have gone if, for example, Anderson had told Duke in front of the house, there's been a noise complaint.

想象一下，如果安德森在房子前面告诉杜克，有人投诉噪音，情况会有多么不同。

I'm just here to ask you guys to keep it down, or when Duke said he was going to get his parents, if Anderson had waited and then told his mom.

我只是想请你们小声一点，或者当杜克说他要去见他的父母时，如果安德森等了然后告诉他妈妈的话。

His mom, Earline, she knew all her neighbors well.

他的妈妈厄琳很了解她所有的邻居。

Duke's confident she would have told people, keep it down, and they would have just wrapped things up.

杜克相信她会告诉人们，但不要说出来，他们就会把事情结束。

When Anderson entered the yard and people wanted to know why he was there, if he'd said, this is not a big deal.

当安德森走进院子时，人们想知道他为什么在那里，如果他说的话，这没什么大不了的。

I'm just here over a noise complaint, rather than shouting Duke was under arrest and going to jail.

我来这里只是为了投诉噪音，而不是大喊杜克被捕入狱。

But instead, officer Anderson took this tiny complaint and, at so many points, he escalated it.

但相反，安德森警官接受了这个小小的投诉，并在很多时候将其升级。

And he ended up pepper spraying a 59-year-old woman's family birthday party.

最后他向一名 59 岁妇女的家庭生日派对喷了胡椒喷雾。

Something else I want to point out about this story-- it might be the best example out there of how Muskegon city government might have taken a harder look at Anderson years before the KKK application was spotted in his house.

关于这个故事，我还想指出一点——这可能是最好的例子，说明马斯基根市政府在安德森家里发现三K党应用程序之前几年，可能会更仔细地审视他。

Because Duke and four of his relatives filed formal complaints.

因为杜克和他的四名亲属提出了正式投诉。

They tried to raise the alarm about the kind of officer Anderson was.

他们试图对安德森这样的警官发出警报。

The department ended up dismissing their complaints and clearing Anderson of any wrongdoing.

该部门最终驳回了他们的投诉，并澄清安德森没有任何不当行为。

It did that based on the word of two officers who'd shown up as backup and who hadn't seen a lot of what happened.

它是根据两名作为后援人员并没有看到发生的很多事情的警官的话来做到这一点的。

Duke says no one from the police department ever reached out to him or his family.

杜克说，警察局没有人联系过他或他的家人。

No one ever called to ask questions, Duke told me, nobody, never.

杜克告诉我，没有人打电话来问问题，从来没有人。

Duke says he felt stymied and powerless.

杜克说他感到受阻和无能为力。

And in his faith, he thought, God, I'm going to leave it in your hands.

出于他的信仰，他想，上帝，我要把它交到你手里。

And something is going to come to light.

一些事情将会显露出来。

And they're going to see who he really is.

他们将会看到他到底是谁。

That was literally his prayer, he said.

他说，这确实是他的祈祷。

People don't believe me, so that's going to be my justice.

人们不相信我，所以这就是我的正义。

And so when the Mathises came forward about the stuff in Anderson's house, Duke thought, this is the day he was hoping for.

因此，当马西斯夫妇出面谈论安德森家里的事情时，杜克想，这就是他所希望的这一天。

I didn't want anything bad to happen to him, he told me.

“我不想让他发生任何不好的事情，”他告诉我。

I wanted the light to be shown.

我想让光被展示出来。

And people would see who he was.

人们会看到他是谁。

Ben Calhoun.

本·卡尔霍恩.

Coming up, Officer Anderson explains about the KKK application to other policemen and how taking a stand and speaking out works out for the Mathises.

接下来，安德森警官向其他警察解释了三K党的申请，以及马西斯夫妇如何表明立场并发声。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program-- A Couple Walks Into a House.

今天的节目——一对情侣走进一所房子。

The story of the fallout in one town when a couple, the Mathises, spots some Confederate flags and a framed KKK application in a policeman's home.

故事讲述了一对马西斯夫妇在一名警察家中发现了一些南部邦联旗帜和一份镶在镜框里的三K党申请书，从而在一个小镇上引发轩然大波的故事。

I just want to say before we go further, so much happens in this story.

在我们进一步讨论之前，我只想说，这个故事发生了很多事情。

There are so many people and moments worth documenting, and also a few very weird plot twists to come, that we're going to tell this over two episodes starting today and finishing next time.

有太多的人和事值得记录，还有一些非常奇怪的情节曲折，我们将从今天开始到下次结束的两集来讲述这一点。

So one result of the Mathis' original Facebook post alerting people about the stuff in Officer Anderson's house, something they were glad to see, was that for the first time in this veteran cop's two-decade history on the force, city officials were now looking seriously into whether he was mistreating Black people on the job.

因此，马蒂斯夫妇最初在 Facebook 上发布的帖子提醒人们注意安德森警官家里的事情，他们很高兴看到这一点，结果是，在这位经验丰富的警察二十年的警队生涯中，市政府官员第一次认真调查他是否在工作中虐待黑人。

So in terms of results for them, that is something.

所以就他们的结果而言，这很重要。

But there were other results too, which brings us to Act 6 of our story, Things Get Ugly.

但还有其他结果，这将我们带入故事的第六幕“事情变得丑陋”。

Again, here's Ben Calhoun.

本·卡尔霍恩再次报道。

These weeks while the city's investigation unfolded were bad ones for Rob and Reyna Mathis.

这几周，市政府展开调查，这对罗布·马西斯和雷娜·马西斯来说是个糟糕的日子。

The backlash that Reyna had worried about when they posted about Officer Anderson, it came, and it was awful.

当雷娜发布有关安德森警官的帖子时，雷娜担心的强烈反对终于来了，而且太可怕了。

Muskegon, at 38,000 people, is just large enough to have city problems, but also small enough that people are in your business and recognize you at the grocery store.

马斯基根拥有 38,000 名人口，其规模足以解决城市问题，但也足够小，人们会参与您的生意并在杂货店认出您。

It's a hard place to hide, especially if your face is all over the biggest news story in town.

这是一个很难隐藏的地方，尤其是当你的脸出现在镇上最大的新闻报道上时。

Rob and Reyna say as soon as they went public, the threats started.

罗布和雷纳说，他们一公开，威胁就开始了。

Some of it was trolling and stuff they could shrug off, people they didn't know calling them on Facebook Messenger, randos in other parts of the country making threats.

其中一些是恶意攻击和他们可以不予理睬的东西，他们不认识的人在 Facebook Messenger 上给他们打电话，全国其他地区的兰多斯发出威胁。

But some was ugly, racist, genuinely scary.

但有些是丑陋的、种族主义的、真正可怕的。

Well, there was one post where someone took a picture of my daughter, the one that you've just seen, my daughter Asia.

嗯，有一篇帖子有人拍了我女儿的照片，就是你刚刚看到的，我的女儿亚洲。

She was 12 at the time.

当时她12岁。

She was playing-- we have a Yorkie.

她在玩耍——我们有一只约克夏。

And she was playing in the front yard with the Yorkie.

她正在前院和约克夏犬玩耍。

And someone posted a picture of her playing with the dog saying, we know where you live, and posted the picture.

还有人贴了一张她和狗玩耍的照片，并说：“我们知道你住在哪里，”并贴出了这张照片。

One thing to know, the Mathis' house sits in the woods more than 500 feet off the road.

需要知道的一件事是，马西斯家坐落在距离公路 500 多英尺的树林中。

To get that picture, whoever this person was had driven all the way back and taken a photo without Rob or Reyna noticing they were there.

为了拍到这张照片，无论这个人是谁，他都开车回来拍了一张照片，而罗布或雷娜没有注意到他们在那里。

After that, they sent their daughter to stay with an aunt.

之后，他们把女儿送到了阿姨家。

Soon, things started happening in person.

很快，事情开始亲自发生。

Young White men in a car at a stoplight recognizing Rob and Reyna, shouting a bunch of threats, and then speeding off.

年轻的白人在红绿灯前的车里认出了罗布和雷纳，大声喊叫着威胁，然后加速离开。

A couple in a parking lot came up to Reyna, her youngest daughter, and her six-year-old grandson and started yelling, using the N-word.

停车场里的一对夫妇走到雷娜、她最小的女儿和她六岁的孙子面前，开始大喊大叫，并使用了“N”字样。

One morning, when Reyna left for work at 3:30 AM, a car was waiting for her.

一天早上，当雷娜 (Reyna) 凌晨 3:30 去上班时，一辆车已经在等她了。

And it followed her the whole way there.

它一路跟着她。

She got on the phone with Rob, who was telling her, don't pull over.

她和罗布通了电话，罗布告诉她，不要靠边停车。

Just keep going.

继续吧。

Car followed her the next day too.

第二天汽车也跟着她。

Reyna says several of the Mathis' kids started having upsetting experiences too.

雷纳说，马西斯家的几个孩子也开始经历令人不安的经历。

An older daughter was working at a restaurant, and she overheard a group of people saying racist things about Rob and Reyna.

一个大女儿在一家餐馆工作，她无意中听到一群人谈论罗布和雷娜的种族主义言论。

She got into an argument with them, and the restaurant fired her.

她与他们发生争执，餐厅解雇了她。

Reyna says most upsetting, though, was how everything changed for her youngest daughter, Asia, who was in middle school at the time.

雷娜说，最令人不安的是，她当时正在上中学的小女儿阿西亚的一切都发生了变化。

She had friends that told her they couldn't talk to her anymore.

她的朋友告诉她，他们不能再和她说话了。

Oh my gosh.

天哪。

Reyna Mathis She came home one day and said she was sitting with her friend at school at the lunch table, and the little girl's mother called her.

雷娜·马西斯 (Reyna Mathis) 有一天，她回到家，说她正和学校的朋友坐在午餐桌上，小女孩的母亲打电话给她。

And she told her she was sitting with Asia.

她告诉她她正和亚洲坐在一起。

And she said, well, tread lightly.

她说，好吧，轻一点。

You know, don't trust her.

你知道，不要相信她。

And then the--

然后是——

And my daughter could hear her.

我女儿能听到她的声音。

Yeah, she was on the phone with her mom during lunch.

是的，午餐时她正在和妈妈打电话。

And my daughter could hear.

我女儿能听到。

The little girl asked my daughter, she said, what color are you again?

小女孩问我女儿，她说，你又是什么颜色的？

My mom wants to know.

我妈妈想知道。

Asia said, well, I'm mixed.

阿莎说，好吧，我是混血儿。

And she goes, oh, she's mixed or whatever.

她说，哦，她是混血儿什么的。

And that's when she told her to tread lightly, don't trust her.

就在那时，她告诉她要小心行事，不要相信她。

And then the next day, the girl didn't talk to my daughter no more.

然后第二天，那个女孩就不再和我女儿说话了。

And she hasn't talked to her since.

而且从那以后，她就没有再跟她说过话。

So she kind of went into the stage where she didn't want to go to school anymore.

于是她就进入了不想再上学的阶段。

She said she wanted to move and just not be around here.

她说她想搬家，只是不想待在这儿。

And that was the most hurtful to me.

而这对我来说是最伤害的。

Because my other kids are grown.

因为我的其他孩子都长大了。

They can deal with stuff like that.

他们可以处理类似的事情。

She's-- you know, she's a very lovable little girl, and she loves everybody.

她——你知道，她是一个非常可爱的小女孩，她爱每个人。

And she just felt like she lost everything.

而她只觉得自己失去了一切。

And that hurt me, because it felt like it was because of us.

这让我很受伤，因为我觉得这是因为我们。

But it was really because of him.

但这确实是因为他。

The impact of all of this on the Mathis' lives, they pulled their house off the market, because they didn't want any cars they didn't know pulling up.

所有这一切对马西斯一家的生活产生了影响，他们把房子从市场上撤了下来，因为他们不想让任何他们不认识的汽车停在市场上。

They were stressed.

他们压力很大。

Rob and Reyna told me they were on edge and arguing, including about whether all this had been worth it.

罗布和雷娜告诉我，他们很紧张，经常争论，包括这一切是否值得。

There was also another source of stress, particularly for Rob.

还有另一个压力来源，尤其是对罗布来说。

And I want to tell you this part of the story because of how important it was to him, and of how important it was to how he saw all of this.

我想告诉你故事的这一部分，因为这对他来说有多重要，以及他如何看待这一切有多重要。

The night I first interviewed Rob and Reyna, this came up.

我第一次采访罗布和雷纳的那天晚上，就出现了这个问题。

After we'd spent several hours talking, I was getting ready to leave.

我们聊了几个小时后，我准备离开。

And he was showing me some of the threats he'd gotten on Facebook.

他向我展示了他在 Facebook 上收到的一些威胁。

Then he referred a couple times to when I was attacked.

然后他几次提到我被袭击的事情。

I did not understand what he was talking about, so I asked him.

我不明白他在说什么，所以我问他。

Then he pulled down his shirt collar, and he showed me an enormous scar.

然后他拉下衬衫领子，给我看了一道巨大的伤疤。

And so that goes-- just because it's on the radio-- it goes from, like, the--

就这样——仅仅因为它在广播中——它来自，就像——

From my right ear down to my Adam's apple-- staples.

从我的右耳到喉结——主食。

There's a lot.

有很多。

There was a lot.

有很多。

From there, the scar continued down onto Rob's chest.

从那里，疤痕一直延伸到罗布的胸口。

It turned out, decades before all this, when Rob was 19, a young soldier in the Army, he went out to a club with a few other soldiers.

事实证明，在这一切发生的几十年前，罗布 19 岁的时候，一名年轻的陆军士兵，和其他几名士兵一起去了一家俱乐部。

In the parking lot, Rob passed a guy sitting on a car.

在停车场，罗布经过一个坐在车上的人。

And he said, what's up?

他说，怎么了？

And he said, you what's up, you know?

他说，你怎么了，知道吗？

He was like, you [BLEEP] N-words.

他就像，你[BLEEP] N-words。

This guy jumped Rob, and he cut his throat.

这家伙跳到罗布身上，割断了他的喉咙。

He sliced both his carotid artery and his jugular vein.

他割断了颈动脉和颈静脉。

Rob got rushed to the hospital.

罗布被紧急送往医院。

When he woke up, he had burns on his chest from defibrillation.

当他醒来时，他的胸部因除颤而被烧伤。

He'd had a stroke.

他中风了。

He couldn't speak.

他说不出话来。

He couldn't feel his legs.

他感觉不到自己的腿了。

He couldn't move them.

他无法移动它们。

He was paralyzed.

他瘫痪了。

It took years of rehab before he could regain his ability to speak, to walk, to use his hands.

经过多年的康复治疗，他才恢复说话、行走和使用双手的能力。

In the beginning, it was like five years before I could walk without a cane.

一开始，大约过了五年我才可以不用拐杖走路。

I can't pick up a pen with this hand, you know?

我这只手拿不起笔，你知道吗？

I got to look at what I'm doing with this hand and tell it what to do.

我必须看看我用这只手在做什么，然后告诉它该怎么做。

Can't just do it.

不能只是这样做。

Because you don't have the sensation in your fingers.

因为你的手指没有感觉。

Right.

正确的。

I mean, it's been a struggle all my life.

我的意思是，我一生都在奋斗。

There's not a day that go by that I don't think about it.

我没有一天不思考这个问题。

And you know, I think about the situation at least once a day, that this man stole my life from me because he was racist.

你知道，我每天至少思考一次这个情况，这个男人因为种族主义而偷走了我的生命。

I would've achieved my military goal and been Sergeant Major Mathis.

我会实现我的军事目标并成为马西斯军士长。

That was what I wanted to be.

这就是我想成为的。

But he stole that from me, you know?

但他从我这里偷走了这个，你知道吗？

And it changed me as a person to where I'm a little more cautious, and I pay attention to details.

这让我变得更加谨慎，更加注重细节。

So with that situation when we went to that looking for a home to buy, and I seen that application on the wall, it wasn't even-- I couldn't stay in that house no more.

因此，在这种情况下，当我们去那里寻找要买的房子时，我看到墙上的申请，甚至不是 - 我不能再留在那所房子里了。

I had to get out.

我必须出去。

These two experiences sat on top of each other for Rob.

对于罗布来说，这两种经历是相辅相成的。

They blurred together.

他们模糊在一起。

What he'd seen that day in Anderson's house, it placed him back in that feeling from that parking lot, when he was attacked out of nowhere and nearly killed.

那天他在安德森家里看到的一切，让他回到了停车场时的感觉，当时他突然遭到袭击，差点丧命。

I've had that feeling for over 40 years, the feeling of, OK, you know, something's wrong, but I'm going to keep going, you know?

40多年来我一直有这种感觉，这种感觉是，好吧，你知道，出了点问题，但我会继续前进，你知道吗？

At the bar, I was having a good time.

在酒吧里，我玩得很开心。

But when the guy jumped off the car and said, you what's up, you know, and when he started hurling the slurs at me, like, it went from good to bad like that.

但当那家伙跳下车说，你怎么了，你知道，当他开始对我辱骂时，事情就这样从好变成了坏。

So walking through this house, I'm like, OK, it's good.

所以走过这所房子时，我想，好吧，这很好。

It's a nice house, this, that, and the other.

这是一座漂亮的房子，这个、那个、还有其他。

But every step of the way, it was just like, nah, nah.

但每走一步，就好像，不，不。

It just changed, changed, changed.

它只是变了、变了、变了。

So that feeling of that racism was from the time he opened his mouth, and it was from the time we walked through the door of this house.

所以那种种族主义的感觉是从他张开嘴的那一刻起，也是从我们走进这所房子的门的那一刻起。

Every step I took in that house made me feel more and more that this is racism, racism, racism.

我在那所房子里迈出的每一步都让我越来越感觉到这是种族主义、种族主义、种族主义。

Let's go.

我们走吧。

Nothing to talk about.

没什么可谈的。

Nothing to say.

没什么可说的。

Both of these experiences, four decades apart, came with the question, what would the institutions in charge do about it?

这两次经历相隔四十年，随之而来的问题是，主管机构会采取什么措施？

In Kentucky, where Rob was stabbed, what the government did ultimately didn't amount to much.

在罗布被刺伤的肯塔基州，政府所做的最终并没有起到多大作用。

Police arrested Ron's attacker that night and recovered the switchblade he used at a parking lot full of witnesses.

当晚，警方逮捕了罗恩的袭击者，并在一个满是目击者的停车场找到了他使用的弹簧刀。

But the man seems to have served only two months for assault under extreme emotional disturbance before he was released on probation.

但该男子似乎因极度情绪困扰下的袭击罪只服刑两个月后就被缓刑释放。

Flash forward 40 years to Muskegon, Michigan.

时间快进 40 年前，来到密歇根州马斯基根。

How will the city handle a police officer accused of mistreating people of color and who's discovered to have racist memorabilia in his house?

该市将如何处理一名被指控虐待有色人种且被发现在家中藏有种族主义纪念品的警察？

We get to that in our next act, Act 7-- The Investigation.

我们将在下一幕《第七幕——调查》中讨论这一点。

The one time in this whole process that we get a chance to hear Charles Anderson's side of this is when the police department's investigators brought him in for questioning.

在整个过程中，我们有一次有机会听到查尔斯·安德森的观点，那就是警察局的调查人员带他来接受讯问。

I don't have audio of this.

我没有这方面的音频。

I just have a transcript.

我只有一份成绩单。

It indicates Anderson sat down with a high-ranking officer working on the investigation, Captain Shawn Bride, six days after the Mathis' Facebook post.

这表明，在马西斯在 Facebook 上发帖六天后，安德森与负责调查的高级官员肖恩·布莱德上尉进行了交谈。

Anderson brought a police union representative to the meeting.

安德森带来了一名警察工会代表参加会议。

Right in the early questioning, Captain Bride asks Anderson to explain the KKK application.

在最初的询问中，布莱德上尉要求安德森解释三K党的申请。

Anderson says, quote, "What it is is this is an antique room.

安德森说，“这就是一间古董房间。

Nobody-- nobody ever used it.

没有人——没有人用过它。

That item was on the wall because I didn't take the items off the wall, just because I thought it would look better for selling.

那件物品挂在墙上是因为我没有把这些物品从墙上取下来，只是因为我认为它看起来更适合出售。

And I didn't even realize it was on there.

我什至没有意识到它就在那里。

I mean, yes, it's mine.

我的意思是，是的，它是我的。

Yes, I collect.

是的，我收集。

But I didn't know that specific item was on the wall.

但我不知道墙上有特定的物品。

I didn't really pay attention."

我真的没有注意。”

Anderson then tells the investigator he bought the application at a flea market for $20 or $30.

然后安德森告诉调查员他在跳蚤市场上以 20 或 30 美元的价格购买了该应用程序。

The investigator asks, why?

调查员问，为什么？

What possessed you to buy something that looks like that and contains that information?

是什么促使您购买看起来像这样并且包含该信息的东西？

Anderson replies, it's part of history, and I love history.

安德森回答说，这是历史的一部分，我热爱历史。

And I have thousands of antiques, and I could show them to you.

我有数千件古董，我可以给你看。

I have thousands.

我有几千个。

Next, they talk about the Confederate flags.

接下来，他们谈论南方联盟旗帜。

Anderson tells the investigator, if you go downstairs, I have a very, very large collection of Dukes of Hazzard.

安德森告诉调查员，如果你下楼，我有非常非常多的哈扎德公爵收藏。

You probably know, but The Dukes of Hazzard was a TV show in the '80s which featured a muscle car named the General Lee, which had a Confederate flag painted on the top.

你可能知道，《哈扎德公爵》是 80 年代的一部电视节目，其中的主角是一辆名为“李将军”的肌肉车，车顶上画着一面南方联盟旗帜。

And Anderson's love of the show does seem real.

安德森对这部剧的热爱似乎是真实的。

Muskegon's city manager told me, at one point, Anderson was bringing his lunch to work in a Dukes of Hazzard lunch box.

马斯基根的城市经理告诉我，有一次，安德森用哈扎德公爵的午餐盒带着午餐去上班。

Anyway, Anderson goes on here about the TV series, how he's gone a few times to a fan event called Dukesfest down South.

不管怎样，安德森在这里继续讲述这部电视剧，以及他如何多次参加南方杜克节的粉丝活动。

Quote, "I have an original script signed by Cougar.

引用：“我有一个由 Cougar 签名的原创剧本。

My wife bought it for me.

我妻子给我买的。

I actually owned a car that was painted like the General Lee.

我实际上拥有一辆漆成像李将军的车。

I have all their videos.

我有他们所有的视频。

I watch them all the time.

我一直看着他们。

I love The Dukes of Hazzard, and that's the reason for the Confederate flags.

我喜欢《哈扎德公爵》，这就是南方联盟旗帜的原因。

They mean nothing other than it was part of that collection."

它们没有任何意义，只是它是该收藏的一部分。”

Captain Bride, the investigator, seems to try to help Anderson with this point he's building.

调查员布莱德船长似乎试图帮助安德森解决他正在建立的这一点。

Bride says, "So would I be safe in summarizing, as some folks are big fans of college football, people are fans of sailing, you're a fan of The Dukes of Hazzard?" "Yes," says Anderson, "I love them."

布莱德说：“那么我可以安全地总结一下，因为有些人是大学橄榄球的忠实粉丝，有些人是帆船运动的粉丝，而你是哈扎德公爵的粉丝？” “是的，”安德森说，“我爱他们。”

As they continue, Anderson flatly denies being a member of the KKK and says he didn't leave these items up to discourage people of color from buying the house.

随着他们的继续，安德森断然否认自己是三K党成员，并表示他留下这些物品并不是为了阻止有色人种购买房子。

The investigator asks, so a Black Jew from Ethiopia would be welcome if they met your asking price?

调查员问道，那么如果来自埃塞俄比亚的黑人犹太人满足你的要价，他们就会受到欢迎？

Yes, they would, says Anderson.

是的，他们会的，安德森说。

Then there's a string of moments like that one, where it feels like the investigator, Captain Bride, is trying to throw Anderson life preservers, like a long stretch where they talk through things that Anderson was commended for, including how he stopped two men, in separate incidents, from killing themselves.

然后还有一连串类似的时刻，感觉调查员布莱德船长正试图扔安德森救生圈，就像一段很长的时间，他们谈论安德森受到赞扬的事情，包括他如何在不同的事件中阻止两名男子自杀。

Investigators ask about each man's race.

调查人员询问每个人的种族。

One was White.

其中之一是怀特。

The other, who Anderson pulled off a bridge, was Black.

另一个是安德森从桥上拉下来的，是布莱克。

Later, when Anderson mentions doing community work with someone whose name is blacked out, the detective responds, "Interesting.

后来，当安德森提到与一个名字被涂黑的人一起做社区工作时，侦探回答道：“有趣。

It's my understanding that one of the tenants of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is that they're strongly against anyone who is-- I guess the most correct way to say it these days is that LBGTQ community.

据我了解，三K党骑士团的成员之一是他们强烈反对任何人——我想现在最正确的说法是LBGTQ社区。

Would it be fair to say that so-and-so is a strong proponent of that community, and maybe even a member?"

可以公平地说，某某是该社区的坚定支持者，甚至可能是该社区的成员吗？”

"Yes," says Anderson.

“是的，”安德森说。

"You consider him an associate or a friend?" "I consider him a friend," says Anderson, confirming, yes, he has a gay or trans friend.

“你认为他是同事还是朋友？” “我认为他是一个朋友，”安德森说，并证实，是的，他有一个同性恋或跨性别朋友。

I asked to talk to Captain Bride about this and other parts of the investigation, but the Muskegon Police.

我要求与布莱德队长谈论此事以及调查的其他部分，但马斯基根警方。

Department said no.

部门说没有。

There are lots of things Anderson is not questioned about, nothing about the complaints Duke Stalling and his family filed against him after they were pepper sprayed, nothing about any other specific incidents on the job or about how he treated Black people in general, other than a few broad and very generic questions-- if he's ever allowed implicit bias to affect his work.

安德森有很多事情没有受到质疑，没有提到杜克·斯托林和他的家人在被胡椒喷雾后对他提出的投诉，没有提到工作中的任何其他具体事件，也没有提到他如何对待黑人，除了一些广泛而非常普遍的问题——他是否曾允许隐性偏见影响他的工作。

No, Anderson says.

不，安德森说。

Has he treated people unfairly?

他对待人有没有不公平？

No. Has he had diversity training?

没有。他接受过多元化培训吗？

Yes, he has.

是的，他有。

Just to be clear, investigators don't get into the details of Anderson's behavior on the job, because Chief Lewis didn't order them to.

需要明确的是，调查人员没有深入了解安德森在工作中的行为细节，因为刘易斯警长并没有命令他们这样做。

His instructions were to figure out whether this thing online was accurate.

他的指示是要弄清楚网上的这个东西是否准确。

Did Anderson have the flags and the KKK application up in his house, and if so, why?

安德森的家里是否有旗帜和三K党申请书？如果有，为什么？

So that's what they confined themselves to.

所以这就是他们限制自己的地方。

Most telling and relevant to our story is the way they wrap up.

与我们的故事最有说服力和相关性的是它们的结束方式。

In the final pages of the transcript, Captain Bride literally invites Anderson to explain away the things he had up in his house.

在文字记录的最后几页，布莱德船长确实邀请安德森解释他在家里的事情。

Quote, "For me, Chuck, if you would-- and the pieces have come together for you to do this-- what could you do to explain this away and allow the members of our community to accept you and place their trust in you to be fair and impartial in policing them?"

引用：“对我来说，查克，如果你愿意——而且所有的一切都已经为你做到了这一点——你能做些什么来解释这一点，让我们社区的成员接受你并相信你在监管他们时公平公正？”

Here's how Anderson responds.

这是安德森的回应。

"I would explain as exactly what I already explained to you, why it was there and that it meant no intent.

“我会像我已经向你解释过的那样解释它为什么在那里，并且这意味着没有意图。

And I apologize if it did, why it created this mess.

如果确实如此，我深表歉意，为什么会造成这种混乱。

I mean, I didn't even know it was up there.

我的意思是，我什至不知道它在那里。

And it was a mistake.

这是一个错误。

And I meant no harm against anyone.

我无意伤害任何人。

And I've been an officer for 22 years, and this is the first time something like this has ever came out, you know, like this.

我当军官已经 22 年了，这是第一次出现这样的事情，你知道，像这样。

And I think I've done well.

我认为我做得很好。

I've treated everyone fairly.

我公平地对待每个人。

I've never had a problem before like this."

我以前从未遇到过这样的问题。”

It just didn't make sense, you know what I mean?

这根本没有意义，你明白我的意思吗？

One person who did not think Officer Anderson was doing a good job explaining this away was the person who ordered the investigation, Muskegon police chief Jeff Lewis.

下令进行调查的人是马斯基根警察局长杰夫·刘易斯，他认为安德森警官没有很好地解释这一点。

Lewis told me, at first, sure, the Dukes of Hazzard, American history collector thing seemed possible to him.

刘易斯告诉我，一开始，当然，美国历史收藏家哈扎德公爵的事情对他来说似乎是可能的。

But he says they asked Anderson to produce evidence of that, pictures of the collection, receipts and stuff.

但他说他们要求安德森出示证据、藏品照片、收据等等。

But even with Anderson's job on the line, Lewis says he never did.

但刘易斯表示，即使安德森的工作岌岌可危，他也从未这样做过。

Nothing was produced.

什么也没产生。

And I'm not calling him a liar, but I'm just saying that it didn't hold any water.

我并不是说他是骗子，我只是说这没有任何依据。

That bucket didn't hold water.

那个桶没有装水。

For Lewis, the stuff in Anderson's house seemed pretty damning.

对于刘易斯来说，安德森家里的东西似乎非常糟糕。

Like, let's say I'm really into governors, for instance.

比如说，我真的很喜欢州长。

And so when you come to my office, I have just one portrait on the wall behind me, Governor George Wallace.

因此，当你来到我的办公室时，我身后的墙上只有一幅肖像，乔治·华莱士州长。

George Wallace, famous southern segregationist.

乔治·华莱士，著名的南方种族隔离主义者。

But I tell you I'm just into governors.

但我告诉你我只是喜欢州长。

But you see that.

但你看到了。

Doesn't that governor tell you something?

那个州长没有告诉你一些事情吗？

Why is that governor in my office behind me on my wall?

为什么我办公室里的州长在我身后的墙上？

After reading Anderson's transcript and talking to the chief, I still didn't really understand what these items meant to him.

读完安德森的笔录并与酋长交谈后，我仍然不太明白这些物品对他意味着什么。

Was the KKK application some random thing he picked up like he said, or was this something important to him?

三K党的申请是像他所说的那样是随机的，还是对他来说很重要？

Rachael Anderson, Officer Anderson's wife, agreed to tell me more if I kept all my questions to the subject of their collecting and how the KKK application fit into it.

安德森警官的妻子雷切尔·安德森（Rachael Anderson）同意告诉我更多信息，前提是我将所有问题都集中在他们的收集以及三K党的申请如何融入其中的主题上。

Yes.

是的。

Ben Calhoun Rachel told me she and her husband have collected all kinds of old stuff for decades.

本·卡尔霍恩·雷切尔 (Ben Calhoun Rachel) 告诉我，她和她的丈夫几十年来一直在收集各种旧东西。

They're not history buffs collecting artifacts from the Civil War, or World War II, or anything like that.

他们不是收集内战、第二次世界大战或类似物品的历史爱好者。

They're people who stop at flea markets and antique shops and buy stuff randomly.

他们是那些在跳蚤市场和古董店停下来随意购买东西的人。

Just, if it's old, if it's cool, if we think it's cool or different.

只是，如果它很旧，如果它很酷，如果我们认为它很酷或不同。

Rachael texted me photos of their house, of a room they call the radio room, with 30-some vintage radios on shelves all around, of a room they call the toy room that has old toys, dozens of old lunchboxes and thermoses, some from TV shows like Charlie's Angels and Knight Rider, vintage appliances, pots and tools in the kitchen, a big shelf full of old piggy banks.

瑞秋给我发了他们家的照片，他们称之为收音机室的房间，周围的架子上摆满了 30 多台老式收音机，还有一个他们称之为玩具室的房间，里面有旧玩具、几十个旧午餐盒和热水瓶，其中一些来自电视节目《查理的天使》和《霹雳游侠》、老式电器、厨房里的锅碗瓢盆和工具，还有一个装满旧存钱罐的大架子。

She says Officer Anderson has a collection of old hair dryers.

她说安德森警官有一系列旧吹风机。

Oh, I don't know why he likes the hair dryers.

哦，我不知道他为什么喜欢吹风机。

He's got some old ones, you know, like handheld ones that have, like, a wooden handle.

他有一些旧的，你知道，比如有木柄的手持式。

And there's not really much to them.

他们并没有太多的东西。

And then he likes the old colorful ones that they-- they're like, in a round box, and you open them up.

然后他喜欢那些古老的彩色盒子，它们就像装在一个圆形盒子里，然后你打开它们。

I think they're, like, from the '50s.

我认为他们来自 50 年代。

As for the Confederate flags and the KKK application, like her husband told investigators, Rachael said the Confederate flags were part of a big Dukes of Hazzard collection.

至于邦联旗帜和三K党的申请，正如她丈夫告诉调查人员的那样，雷切尔说邦联旗帜是哈扎德公爵收藏的一部分。

I would like to make one thing clear.

我想澄清一件事。

I don't know if this-- if this is outstepping my boundary or not.

我不知道这是否超出了我的界限。

But I am the one that found that specific item that everyone made a big deal about, just saying.

但我是那个发现了每个人都非常重视的特定项目的人，只是说。

Oh, the KKK application?

哦，三K党的申请？

Rachael Anderson Yeah.

雷切尔·安德森 是的。

I was like, hey, this is so cool.

我当时想，嘿，这太酷了。

This would look awesome in the antique room, just the way it looked.

这在古董室里看起来棒极了，就像它看起来的样子一样。

Huh.

呵呵。

Can I ask, like, what your feelings were about that particular artifact?

我可以问一下，你对那个特定的文物有什么感受吗？

I didn't really have any.

我真的没有。

I just thought it was kind of-- it was different.

我只是觉得这有点不同。

It was cool.

很酷。

Looked, you know, just different.

看起来，你知道，只是不同。

Honestly, it was put on the wall and kind of just forgotten about.

老实说，它被贴在墙上，然后就被遗忘了。

Once people had a reaction to that, because of what it's associated with historically, did that change the way that you felt about it?

一旦人们对此做出反应，因为它与历史相关，这会改变你对它的感受吗？

Um, not-- it didn't really change the way I felt about it.

嗯，不——这并没有真正改变我对此的感受。

I just thought it was kind of neat.

我只是觉得这很整洁。

It was, you know, old.

你知道，它很旧。

It was part of history.

这是历史的一部分。

But what about the fact that people were like, that's a scary thing for me to see because of who I am?

但事实上，人们会说，因为我是谁，这对我来说是一件可怕的事情？

I'm not really sure how to answer that.

我不太确定如何回答这个问题。

I mean, I'm not saying I don't understand people have feelings.

我的意思是，我并不是说我不明白人们是有感情的。

But it's not like that described who we are.

但这并不是我们所描述的那样。

And the way things are now, I mean, everybody is offended over something.

我的意思是，按照现在的情况，每个人都会因为某些事情而感到被冒犯。

And who knows what that might be?

谁知道那可能是什么？

I ended up feeling like Officer Anderson's account to investigators had mostly been true.

我最终感觉安德森警官对调查人员的描述大部分是真实的。

He and Rachael didn't seem like card-carrying members of a White supremacist organization.

他和瑞秋看起来并不像是白人至上主义组织的正式成员。

I can see them buying that KKK application without ever expecting to offend anyone.

我可以看到他们购买 KKK 应用程序，却没想到会冒犯任何人。

But it said a lot that even two years later, she didn't seem to understand the fear and concern people had about this thing she thought was cool.

但它说明了很多，即使是两年后，她似乎也不理解人们对她认为很酷的东西的恐惧和担忧。

And she wasn't really interested in understanding that.

她并不是真的有兴趣了解这一点。

So the city's investigation is going.

因此，该市的调查正在进行中。

The Mathises are being harassed.

马西斯夫妇受到骚扰。

And people are waiting.

人们正在等待。

They're waiting to find out what the city is going to do and say about all this.

他们正在等待了解这座城市将对此做什么和说什么。

And this did not play out the way I expected it to.

这并没有按照我的预期发展。

Next time, what the city decides to do about Charles Anderson.

下次，该市决定如何对待查尔斯·安德森。

Ben Calhoun-- he's one of the editors of our program.

本·卡尔霍恩——他是我们节目的编辑之一。

One of the things that he did not expect that we get into next time, the tour of Officer Anderson's house.

他没想到我们下次会谈到的一件事是参观安德森警官的房子。

Rob and Reyna had thought this was some random police officer.

罗布和雷纳以为这是某个随意的警察。

And they were shocked to learn that they'd crossed paths with him years before, an incident that they did remember very vividly.

他们惊讶地发现自己几年前就与他有过交集，这一事件他们确实记得非常清楚。

I'm like, Reyna, just be cool.

我想，雷娜，冷静点。

Be cool.

冷静点。

Be cool.

冷静点。

And he said, you're resisting.

他说，你在反抗。

You're resisting.

你在反抗。

And then he swung her around, and he threw her on the hood of the car.

然后他把她转过来，把她扔到汽车引擎盖上。

I was worried that he was going to shoot her in front of me and the kids.

我担心他会当着我和孩子们的面开枪射杀她。

Our program was produced today by Ben Calhoun, me, with help from Zoe Chace and Dana Chivvis.

今天我们的节目是由我、本·卡尔霍恩在佐伊·查斯和达纳·奇维斯的帮助下制作的。

Contributing editors for today's program, Stephen Henderson and Rob Wildeboer.

今天节目的特约编辑是斯蒂芬·亨德森和罗布·维尔德波尔。

Original music for today's show by Matt McGinley.

今天节目的原创音乐由马特·麦金利 (Matt McGinley) 创作。

The other people who helped put together today's program-- Elna Baker, Sean Cole, Michal Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Damien Grave, Chana Joffe-Walt, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Will Peischel, Robin Semien, Alissa Shipp, Laura Starecheski, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.

其他帮助整理今天节目的人还有 Elna Baker、Sean Cole、Michal Comite、Aviva DeKornfeld、Damien Grave、Chana Joffe-Walt、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Will Peischel、Robin Semien、Alissa Shipp、Laura Starecheski、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。

Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.

我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。

Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.

我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。

Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.

我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。

Special Thanks today to Eric Hood, Destiny Keener-Sargent, Jen White, Dustin Dwyer, Paul Butler, Sharon Fairley, Craig Futterman, Tracey Mears, and Timothy Maat.

今天特别感谢 Eric Hood、Destiny Keener-Sargent、Jen White、Dustin Dwyer、Paul Butler、Sharon Fairley、Craig Futterman、Tracey Mears 和 Timothy Maat。

Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org, where you can stream our archive, over 750 episodes, for absolutely free.

我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的档案（超过 750 集）。

Also, there's video, lists of favorite programs, tons of other stuff there too.

此外，还有视频、喜爱的节目列表以及大量其他内容。

Again, ThisAmericanLife.org.

再次，ThisAmericanLife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

You know he visited the United Nations building in New York City last weekend, was not a fan of the decorations.

你知道他上周末参观了纽约市的联合国大楼，但他并不喜欢这里的装饰。

There was, like, one flag here, one flag there.

好像这里有一面旗帜，那里有一面旗帜。

And I said something like, this is a lot of flags.

我说过，这是很多旗帜。

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。