754: Spark Bird - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #754 | August 23, 2024 754: Spark Bird Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 754 集 | 2024 年 8 月 23 日 754：Spark Bird 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Last week, I went out in the woods in Oregon with this bird expert, Noah Strycker, looking at birds.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 上周，我和鸟类专家诺亚·斯特莱克 (Noah Strycker) 一起到俄勒冈州的树林里观察鸟类。
Every day he goes out for at least an hour-- often, it's a lot more-- on trails around his house that he and his parents cleared back when he was a kid.
每天他都会在他小时候和父母清理过的房子周围的小路上出去至少一个小时——通常是更多的时间。
And I'd never been birding.
而且我从来没有观鸟过。
I had no idea how much of bird watching you're actually just listening for the birds.
我不知道有多少观鸟实际上只是在听鸟叫。
When we'd set out in the morning, it was still foggy.
早上出发的时候，天还是雾蒙蒙的。
Already, I can hear some birds calling now.
我现在已经能听到一些鸟儿的叫声了。
So there's a spotted towhee, [IMITATING BIRD CALL], calling just behind me.
所以有一只斑点拖车，[模仿鸟叫声]，在我身后叫。
That [IMITATING BIRD CALL] was a California quail waking up.
那[模仿鸟叫声]是一只醒来的加州鹌鹑。
Did you hear that little [IMITATING BIRD CALL]?
你听到那个小小的[模仿鸟叫声]吗？
[BIRD CALL] That was the sound of a Steller's jay imitating a red-tailed hawk.
[鸟叫声] 那是虎头鸦模仿红尾鹰的声音。
Wait, you know the birds well enough you can tell when a bird is imitating another bird badly?
等等，你对鸟类足够了解，你能分辨出一只鸟何时模仿另一只鸟吗？
Yeah, it's not a real red-tailed hawk.
是的，它不是真正的红尾鹰。
Steller's jays are just kind of bullies, in general, and they imitate red tailed hawks, as far as I can tell, just to terrorize other little birds in the forest.
一般来说，虎头松鸦只是一种恶霸，据我所知，它们模仿红尾鹰，只是为了恐吓森林中的其他小鸟。
I don't know, honestly.
老实说，我不知道。
Ira Glass What's weird about this is if Noah can tell that it's not a red-tailed hawk, and he's not even a bird, can't other birds tell?
艾拉·格拉斯：奇怪的是，如果诺亚能分辨出那不是红尾鹰，而且他甚至不是鸟，其他鸟就不能分辨出来吗？
If they can, why would the Steller jay keep doing it?
如果可以的话，虎头鸟为什么还要继续这么做呢？
To answer that question, Noah tells me about how, a couple of years ago, he bought this powerful microphone, a parabolic microphone, that could capture bird sounds from a great distance.
为了回答这个问题，诺亚告诉我，几年前，他如何购买了这款功能强大的麦克风，即抛物面麦克风，可以从很远的距离捕捉鸟的声音。
The first bird I ever aimed it at was a Steller's jay sitting up on a branch.
我用它瞄准的第一只鸟是一只坐在树枝上的北鸦。
So he turned on his recorder, put on headphones, and waited for it to make some noise.
于是他打开录音机，戴上耳机，等待它发出声音。
And I realized it was sitting up there with its beak closed, singing a very quiet whisper song to itself that only itself could have possibly heard because it was so quiet.
我意识到它坐在那儿，嘴巴闭着，对着自己唱着一首非常安静的耳语歌，只有它自己才能听到，因为它是如此安静。
That just blew my mind.
这让我大吃一惊。
I have never listened to birds the same sense.
我从来没有听过鸟儿有同样的感觉。
So I think they do make noises just for their own sake a lot of the time.
所以我认为他们很多时候确实只是为了自己而发出声音。
Going out birding with Noah is going out with somebody who is insanely knowledgeable about birds.
和诺亚一起出去观鸟就是和一个对鸟类非常了解的人出去。
He's written five books about their behavior, toured the world, seeing 6,000 of the nearly 11,000 existing bird species in just one year, in 2015.
他写了五本关于鸟类行为的书，并在 2015 年的短短一年内环游世界，观察了现有近 11,000 种鸟类中的 6,000 种。
So he knows a lot.
所以他知道很多。
But he's also still completely excited about birds.
但他仍然对鸟类感到非常兴奋。
Can't get enough.
还不够。
He told me this story.
他给我讲了这个故事。
He goes to Antarctica for months studying penguins, and sometimes he gives tours to visitors of the penguin colonies.
他去南极洲研究企鹅几个月，有时他还带领游客参观企鹅栖息地。
At first he says they love it.
起初他说他们喜欢它。
They go into their colony, they see the baby penguins, which are super cute.
他们走进自己的栖息地，看到了超级可爱的小企鹅。
And then, like, day five or so, people get up in the morning and they're like, where are we going to go today?
然后，就像第五天左右，人们早上起床时就会想，我们今天要去哪里？
And you say, we're going to a penguin colony.
你说，我们要去企鹅栖息地。
And there's this look that I've learned to recognize.
我已经学会识别这种表情了。
It's like, I've just been to eight other penguin colonies in the past four days.
就像，在过去的四天里我刚刚去过另外八个企鹅栖息地。
How is this one going to be any different?
这一次会有什么不同吗？
But for me, I have never felt that look in my whole life.
但对我来说，我一生中从未感受过那种眼神。
I have never got penguined out.
我从来没有被企鹅淘汰过。
He happily goes back to the same colony, or the same woods around his house, every single day.
他每天都高兴地回到同一个殖民地，或者他房子周围的同一个树林。
Noah says this endless interest in birds began in sort of typical ways.
诺亚说，人们对鸟类的无尽兴趣是从某种典型的方式开始的。
In fifth grade, he first noticed birds for real when his teacher suction-cupped a bird feeder to the classroom window, and he could stare at the birds through the glass just inches away.
五年级时，他第一次真正注意到鸟儿，当时他的老师用吸盘将喂鸟器吸到教室窗户上，他可以透过几英寸外的玻璃盯着鸟儿。
He started reading the field guide, looking for birds on his own, joined a local birding club.
他开始阅读野外指南，自己寻找鸟类，并加入了当地的观鸟俱乐部。
Everybody else in the club, by the way, was in their 60s, 70s, and 80s.
顺便说一句，俱乐部里的其他人都是 60 多岁、70 多岁和 80 多岁。
He was like 12.
他当时大概12岁。
The one kid.
唯一的孩子。
This energetic, birdy Doogie Howser.
这只精力充沛、鸟语花香的杜吉·豪瑟 (Doogie Howser)。
In person, Noah actually does have kind of a Neil Patrick Harris vibe.
就个人而言，诺亚确实有一种尼尔·帕特里克·哈里斯的气质。
But the thing he says that changed him from that kind of leisure time birder into somebody who organized his entire life around it happened because of turkey vultures, one particular pack of them, when he was 16.
但他说的这句话让他从那种闲暇时观鸟的人变成了一个围绕着它组织自己的一生的人，这一切都发生在他 16 岁时，因为火鸡秃鹫，其中的一个特殊群体。
And he saw this episode of a TV show called The Life of Birds, where David Attenborough goes into a Trinidadian rainforest.
他还观看了电视节目《鸟类的一生》中的这一集，大卫·阿滕伯勒 (David Attenborough) 走进特立尼达雨林。
And he has this smelly old piece of steak in his hand.
而他手里还拿着这块发臭的老牛排。
And then he buries the steak under the leaflet, or on the forest floor in the rainforest.
然后他把牛排埋在传单下面，或者埋在雨林的地面上。
Let me hide it.
让我把它隐藏起来。
Noah Strycker And then backs off, and then they cut.
诺亚·斯特莱克（Noah Strycker） 然后后退，然后他们就切了。
And then 45 minutes later, this turkey vulture comes sailing down through the canopy of that forest and flies unerringly right to the spot where the steak is and digs it up, moves the leaves aside, and gets the meat.
45 分钟后，这只火鸡兀鹫从森林的树冠上飞下来，准确无误地飞到牛排所在的地方，把它挖出来，把叶子移到一边，然后得到肉。
When I saw that on The Life of Birds as a high schooler, I just immediately had one thought, which was, I've got to try this at home.
当我高中时看到《鸟的一生》时，我立刻就有一个想法，那就是，我必须在家里尝试一下。
That is the like best bird feeding idea I've ever seen in my life.
这是我一生中见过的最好的喂鸟想法。
It seemed incredible to him that he might be able to lure these birds that you usually see from so far away.
他觉得难以置信，自己居然能引诱这些通常从很远的地方就能看到的鸟儿。
Turkey vultures are shy, hard to get near, and he might be able to see them close up?
火鸡秃鹫很害羞，很难靠近，他也许能近距离看到它们？
Then he thought, if David Attenborough got one bird to show up with some old piece of steak, maybe he would improve his odds if his bait was something bigger.
然后他想，如果大卫·阿滕伯勒让一只鸟带着一块旧牛排出现，如果他的诱饵更大，也许他的胜算会提高。
Imagine how many turkey vultures I could attract with, like, a dead deer.
想象一下我可以用一头死鹿吸引多少只火鸡秃鹰。
There are so many deer here in rural Oregon on the side of the highways and freeways.
俄勒冈州乡村的高速公路和高速公路旁有很多鹿。
I can now go out and find roadkill, bring a whole carcass home, and see how many turkey vultures we can attract.
我现在可以出去寻找路杀动物，把整个尸体带回家，看看我们能吸引多少只火鸡秃鹰。
But it was kind of hard to find a roadkill, as it turned out.
但事实证明，要找到被撞死的人有点困难。
It took me, like, a month to track one down.
我花了大约一个月的时间才找到一个。
Another way to put that last sentence, if you aren't a 16-year-old very eager to see turkey vultures up close-- it only took a month to find a deer carcass.
最后一句话的另一种说法是，如果你不是一个非常渴望近距离观察火鸡秃鹰的 16 岁孩子，那么只花了一个月就找到了一具鹿的尸体。
Noah wrestled the heavy, bloated, gaseous, yellow jacket-covered, putrid-smelling deer into the trunk of his Volvo sedan.
诺亚把那头笨重、浮肿、冒着气体、覆盖着黄色夹克、散发着腐臭味的鹿摔进了他的沃尔沃轿车的后备箱。
Got home, put the deer in a wheelbarrow, wheeled it out to this very spot, where we're standing in this pasture, and dumped it.
回到家，把鹿放进独轮车，推到我们现在站在牧场的这个地方，然后把它扔掉。
So it's, like, right here where we're standing?
那么，就像我们现在站的地方一样？
This is the spot I chose.
这是我选择的地点。
Ira Glass At this point in our bird walk, we were standing within eyeshot of the house that he grew up in, but not too close.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在我们的观鸟之旅中，我们站在他长大的房子的视野范围内，但不是太近。
The cow pasture's overgrown, Douglas firs and white oaks around its edges.
奶牛牧场杂草丛生，周围长满了花旗松和白橡树。
I thought this would be a good spot because you can see it from the sky, it has multiple approach paths from the air, so they will be as attracted as possible to this deer carcass.
我认为这将是一个好地方，因为你可以从天空看到它，它有多个从空中接近的路径，所以它们会尽可能地被鹿尸体所吸引。
It was dark, so he went to bed, no idea if this was going to work.
天黑了，他就上床睡觉了，不知道这是否有效。
Gets up the next morning--
第二天早上起来——
And there were turkey vultures everywhere.
到处都有火鸡秃鹫。
They were sitting on these trees right here.
他们就坐在这些树上。
There were vultures sitting on the roof of our house, like 10 of them lined up on our roof.
我们家的屋顶上栖息着秃鹰，大约有十只秃鹫在我们的屋顶上排成一排。
There were vultures circling overhead.
头顶上有秃鹰盘旋。
There were probably 30 or 40 turkey vultures hanging around the yard.
院子周围可能有 30 或 40 只火鸡秃鹰。
And when I woke up and realized that this had happened, I was so happy.
当我醒来并意识到发生了这件事时，我非常高兴。
I rushed out here.
我冲出了这里。
And I had set up a little camouflage tarp next to the deer carcass.
我在鹿尸体旁边搭了一块小迷彩防水布。
The tarp was just kind of in this wet grass.
防水布就在这湿湿的草地上。
So if I come over here, I was hunkered down right about here.
所以如果我来这里，我就会蹲在这里。
So if I get down, I was sitting under the tarp with a hole in it, and my camera lens sticking out.
所以如果我下来，我会坐在有一个洞的防水布下面，我的相机镜头伸出来。
He's maybe 10 feet from the deer.
他距离鹿大概有 10 英尺。
He waited.
他等待着。
And then finally, it was like magic.
最后，这就像魔法一样。
The first one came down.
第一个就下来了。
And once one came down, they all started just piling down.
一旦其中一个倒下，它们就开始堆积起来。
It wasn't like what he imagined.
事情并不像他想象的那样。
He thought it was going to be chaos, like a pack of lions ripping into a zebra.
他认为这将会是一场混乱，就像一群狮子撕咬斑马一样。
What unfolded was very polite.
所发生的事情非常有礼貌。
They were just delicately walking around it, standing on top of it, and starting to pick at it gingerly.
他们只是小心翼翼地绕着它走，站在它上面，开始小心翼翼地采摘它。
It wasn't a brute force kind of thing, at all, and they were very well-behaved, I thought.
我想，这根本不是蛮力之类的事情，而且他们表现得很好。
There was almost, like, a pecking order involved.
这几乎涉及到一个啄食顺序。
They knew which birds were going to eat first, and they adhered to it.
他们知道哪些鸟会先吃东西，并且他们会坚持下去。
Oh, so it was very orderly?
哦，原来是这么有秩序啊？
Noah Strycker It was an orderly scene of turkey vultures eating their breakfast.
诺亚·斯特莱克（Noah Strycker） 这是火鸡秃鹰吃早餐的有序场景。
Where did they start?
他们从哪里开始？
Noah Strycker I thought it was so cool.
诺亚·斯特莱克（Noah Strycker）我觉得这太酷了。
So the softest parts of the deer, that's where the turkey vultures would start sticking their heads into.
所以，火鸡秃鹫会把头伸进鹿身上最柔软的部位。
I was expecting them to tear a big hole in the side and just go at it, but that's not what happened at all.
我原以为他们会在侧面撕开一个大洞然后就去砍它，但事实并非如此。
They actually started by pecking the eyes out.
他们实际上是从啄出眼睛开始的。
I guess those are the softest part of the deer.
我想那是鹿身上最柔软的部分。
So they went for the eyeballs.
所以他们就去争夺眼球。
And then they went in and very carefully ate the gums out of the deer, like around its teeth.
然后他们进去，非常小心地吃掉鹿的牙龈，比如牙齿周围的牙龈。
They had to go for the soft parts because they don't have very strong feet or beaks.
它们必须寻找柔软的部分，因为它们没有非常坚固的脚或喙。
Instead, a turkey vulture just kind of sticks its head up inside the body.
相反，火鸡秃鹫只是将头伸进体内。
Its head is bald and red, with no feathers.
它的头是秃的，呈红色，没有羽毛。
--which is handy for sticking inside of carcasses and not getting your feathers all messed up.
——这样可以方便地粘在尸体内部，而且不会弄乱你的羽毛。
The turkey vultures next start eating around the wound on the deer's shoulder, from where it got hit on the highway.
接下来，火鸡秃鹫开始啃食鹿肩膀上的伤口，也就是鹿在高速公路上被撞的地方。
Took turns eating around there until they got a big enough opening to get access to the chest and guts and everything else.
他们轮流在那儿吃东西，直到有足够大的开口可以进入胸部、内脏和其他所有东西。
Noah would go off in the mornings and do tennis camp and other kid stuff, then come back to his tarp for hours and hours.
诺亚早上会去参加网球训练营和其他儿童活动，然后回到他的防水布上几个小时。
I don't know how many hours I spent out here that week, but it was full afternoons, pretty much every day, all week long.
我不知道那一周我在这里度过了多少个小时，但整个星期都是下午，几乎每天都是。
So I got to see the whole process.
所以我必须亲眼目睹整个过程。
At the beginning, the deer carcass was relatively fresh, and then gradually, it was stripped away.
刚开始的时候，鹿的尸体还比较新鲜，后来渐渐地，就被剥掉了。
And by day five or day six, they were starting to disassemble the skeleton that was pretty much picked clean.
到了第五天或第六天，他们开始拆卸几乎被清理干净的骨架。
It was like being drawn into another world that exists in this world, that we are very seldom a part of.
这就像被吸引到这个世界上存在的另一个世界，而我们很少参与其中。
Being so close to these birds that don't normally allow us to get that close to them was like passing through some kind of force field or something, and emerging on their side of the divide, and feeling that.
与这些鸟类如此接近，通常不允许我们如此接近它们，就像穿过某种力场或其他东西，并出现在分界线的一侧，并感受到这一点。
Yeah.
是的。
And their world is not the same as ours?
而且他们的世界和我们的不一样？
No. And it has existed for much longer than ours has.
不。而且它的存在时间比我们的要长得多。
I mean, humanity is not that old.
我的意思是，人类并没有那么古老。
Turkey vultures have been around for quite a lot longer than we have.
土耳其秃鹫存在的时间比我们要长得多。
Man, when you stare into the eyeball of a turkey vulture and it blinks its third eyelid that birds have, that is just unsettling.
伙计，当你凝视火鸡秃鹰的眼球时，它会眨动鸟类拥有的第三眼睑，这真是令人不安。
They are strange, strange animals.
它们是奇怪、奇怪的动物。
They just have this weird, very reptilian vibe.
他们就是有一种奇怪的、非常爬行动物的氛围。
Before this, of course, he'd seen lots of birds, but it was like checking them off a list.
当然，在此之前，他见过很多鸟，但这就像将它们从清单上划掉一样。
He saw this one and that one that he'd read about in the field guide.
他看到了他在现场指南中读到的这个和那个。
He'd never just stared at one group of birds for so long and watched how they related to each other or what they did.
他从来没有这么长时间地盯着一群鸟，观察它们之间的关系或它们所做的事情。
Turkey vultures are what I would call my spark bird.
火鸡秃鹰是我所说的“火花鸟”。
For a birder, a spark bird is the one you see, usually in some kind of unexpected situation, that grabs you in a way that you haven't been grabbed before by birds, and turns you on to a wavelength that you haven't been turned on to before, in the bird world.
对于观鸟者来说，火花鸟是你看到的鸟，通常是在某种意想不到的情况下，它以一种你以前从未被鸟类抓住过的方式抓住你，并让你进入鸟类世界中以前从未被开启过的波长。
Like people would talk about, what's your spark bird?
就像人们谈论的那样，你的火花鸟是什么？
Birders, when we get together and go out on field trips, yes, we love to say, oh yeah, what was your spark bird?
观鸟者，当我们聚在一起进行实地考察时，是的，我们喜欢说，哦，是的，你的火花鸟是什么？
Oh, that's a cool one.
哦，那是一件很酷的事。
What was your spark bird?
你的火花鸟是什么？
And you ask just about any birder out there what their spark bird is, and they'll probably have an answer for you.
如果你问任何观鸟者他们的火花鸟是什么，他们可能会给你答案。
For me, that week watching these vultures, being in their world just gripped me.
对我来说，那一周观察这些秃鹫，置身于它们的世界里，让我着迷。
It changed my life.
它改变了我的生活。
That week in the pasture by his house has basically turned into his entire life, thanks to the spark birds.
多亏了火花鸟，在他家附近牧场的那一周基本上已经变成了他的一生。
None of us here at our program had ever heard the phrase "spark bird" before we talked to Noah.
在我们与诺亚交谈之前，我们项目中的所有人都没有听说过“火花鸟”这个词。
And we thought, there must be other situations where a bird arrives and changes everything.
我们想，一定还有其他情况，一只鸟的到来改变了一切。
And we went looking for stories like that.
我们去寻找这样的故事。
We found a bunch, a whole flock of them, in all kinds of settings.
我们在各种环境中发现了一大堆、一大群。
This weekend, when families are coming from far and wide to gather together around a bird, this seemed like the perfect time to bring those stories to you.
这个周末，当来自四面八方的家庭聚集在一只鸟周围时，这似乎是向您讲述这些故事的最佳时机。
From WBZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Don’t Chicken Out Ira Glass Act One, Don't Chicken Out.
第一幕：不要畏缩 Ira Glass 第一幕，不要畏缩。
So one thing about the birds in this show, the spark birds, is that they don't know how consequential they are.
所以这个节目中的鸟儿，火花鸟，有一件事是他们不知道自己有多么重要。
Know what I mean?
知道我的意思吗？
They're just going about their day, picking up worms and seeds, unaware of the lives they're transforming.
他们只是过着自己的日子，捡起蠕虫和种子，没有意识到他们正在改变人们的生活。
I'm fairly sure that that's true for the bird in this first story, though we were unable to confirm that independently with the bird.
我相当确定第一个故事中的鸟也是如此，尽管我们无法独立地与鸟确认这一点。
One of the people in the story is Carmen Milito.
故事中的人物之一是卡门·米利托。
Back when she was 13, in 1960, growing up on Coney Island in New York, one day she met this boy on the beach.
1960 年，13 岁的她在纽约康尼岛长大，有一天，她在海滩上遇见了这个男孩。
Even today when she talks about him, the words she uses are "gorgeous," "beautiful."
即使在今天，当她谈论他时，她使用的词仍然是“华丽”、“美丽”。
He had just the cutest face that I've ever seen-- dimples.
他有我见过的最可爱的脸——酒窝。
He just swooned me.
他简直让我着迷。
He swooned her.
他让她着迷。
That's how they did it back in the '60s.
他们在 60 年代就是这样做的。
Girls were constantly swooning back then, over the Beatles, and Elvis, and whatnot.
那时，女孩们总是为披头士乐队、猫王之类的乐队而着迷。
Anyway, she and the guy talked for 10 or 15 minutes.
不管怎样，她和那家伙聊了10到15分钟。
He strolls off.
他漫步离开。
Three years later, she's at a social club in some random neighborhood, far from Coney Island.
三年后，她在远离康尼岛的某个随机社区的一个社交俱乐部里。
There's music playing, people dancing, and the boy walks in.
音乐响起，人们跳舞，男孩走了进来。
Fate.
命运。
He's wearing a leather jacket, slicked back hair, as teenagers did back then.
他穿着一件皮夹克，头发梳得光滑，就像当时的青少年一样。
Carmen points him out to her friend.
卡门把他指给她的朋友看。
And she looks over, and she goes, oh, my god, he's gorgeous.
她看了过去，然后说，哦，天啊，他太帅了。
Carmen goes up to him.
卡门走到他身边。
The guy buys her a drink.
那家伙请她喝一杯。
They talk for a long time.
他们聊了很长时间。
He asks her out.
他约她出去。
She's 16.
她16岁了。
His name is Bobby.
他的名字叫鲍比。
She's excited.
她很兴奋。
But she is too ashamed of the apartment where she lives with her mom to have him pick her up there.
但她对和妈妈住的公寓感到羞耻，不愿意让他来接她。
It was run down, she said, under the elevated train tracks.
她说，它在高架铁轨下被磨损了。
So she has him pick her up at her sister's place.
于是她让他去她姐姐家接她。
Her mom is furious about this.
她妈妈对此非常愤怒。
She was-- you're not proud of what we have here?
她是——你不为我们这里所拥有的一切感到自豪吗？
I work my ass off all my life, and you're embarrassed?
我拼命工作了一辈子，你还害羞吗？
Carmen tries to tell her that she just wanted to make a good first impression.
卡门试图告诉她，她只是想给人留下良好的第一印象。
Says, don't worry, she's going to have him come to the house when he picks her up for the second date.
说，别担心，当他第二次约会时，她会让他来家里。
So that day was a Saturday.
所以那天是星期六。
And I told my mom that he's coming again to pick me up.
我告诉妈妈他又来接我了。
And she put this little face on-- so what do you want me to do?
她摆出这张小脸——那你想让我做什么？
Put up the flags?
立起旗帜？
So she said, well, tell me about this boy.
所以她说，好吧，告诉我关于这个男孩的事。
What's going on with him?
他怎么了？
So I said, well, he's an Italian guy.
所以我说，好吧，他是意大利人。
He lives in Bensonhurst.
他住在本森赫斯特。
I said, he happens to be Sicilian.
我说，他恰好是西西里人。
And she stopped.
她停了下来。
She said, no. And I said, what do you mean, no?
她说，不。我说，你是什么意思，不是吗？
I mean, you are not going out with any Sicilian boys.
我的意思是，你不会和任何西西里男孩出去。
My mom is from Naples.
我妈妈来自那不勒斯。
So she had married my dad who was Sicilian, and he turned out to be a real deadbeat of a man.
于是她嫁给了我父亲，他是西西里人，而他却是一个真正的赖账者。
He deserted her when she was pregnant to me, for the babysitter, actually.
当她怀着我的孩子时，他抛弃了她，实际上是为了保姆。
Wow.
哇。
Carmen Milito So when she heard that he was Sicilian, she thought that life was repeating itself.
卡门·米利托 因此，当她听说他是西西里人时，她认为生活正在重演。
And the thoughts that came into her mind were like, you know, he's going to desert you.
她脑海中浮现的想法是，你知道，他会抛弃你。
And I said, please, you're jumping the gun here.
我说，拜托，你太操之过急了。
It's the second date.
这是第二次约会。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
She says, I don't care.
她说，我不在乎。
I don't-- so I said, mom, please.
我不——所以我说，妈妈，求你了。
Carmen tells her, just go out and do the shopping while I clean the house.
卡门告诉她，你出去买点东西，我打扫房子。
Her mom says, fine.
她妈妈说，好吧。
She goes out.
她出去了。
Comes back a little while later with a large cardboard box.
过了一会儿，他带着一个大纸箱回来了。
The chicken, of course, is the spark bird in this story, the one that's going to change everything for Carmen.
当然，鸡是这个故事中的火花鸟，它将改变卡门的一切。
And it's scratching that box all over the place.
它把那个盒子刮得到处都是。
And I looked at it and I said, what is that?
我看着它，我说，那是什么？
And she goes, it's a chicken.
她走了，这是一只鸡。
And I said, what are you going to do with it?
我说，你打算用它做什么？
And she goes, I'm going to kill it, and then eat it.
她说，我要杀了它，然后吃掉它。
And I said, you never killed a thing in your life.
我说，你一生中从未杀过任何东西。
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
You can't have this thing here now.
你现在不能把这个东西放在这里。
He's going to be here any minute, and you've got a live chicken.
他随时都会来这里，而你就有了一只活鸡。
He's going to think we're farmers or something.
他会认为我们是农民什么的。
[LAUGHTER] I just went off.
[笑声]我刚刚走了。
And she goes, oh, don't be ridiculous.
她说，哦，别开玩笑了。
I'll put the chicken in the bathroom.
我会把鸡放在浴室里。
Now, the bathroom was right next to the kitchen.
现在，浴室就在厨房旁边。
So you close the door and you hear everything-- everything in that bathroom.
所以你关上门，你就会听到一切——浴室里的一切。
And so do you figure like, oh, this is her revenge on me?
所以你觉得，哦，这是她对我的报复吗？
She thought I was ashamed to bring him to the house, and so here's what she's doing.
她认为我带他来家里感到羞耻，所以这就是她正在做的事情。
She's brought a live chicken in.
她带了一只活鸡进来。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I said that.
我这么说。
I said, are you getting back at me for something?
我说，你是不是有什么事要报复我？
And what are you doing?
你在做什么？
She goes, oh, don't be ridiculous.
她说，哦，别开玩笑了。
She said, just go.
她说，你走吧。
Go.
去。
Go finish getting dressed.
去穿好衣服吧。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
He's in the bathroom.
他在浴室里。
He won't hear a sound, your precious Bobby.
他不会听到任何声音，你亲爱的鲍比。
Well, as we're arguing, we hear footsteps coming down the hallway, and then there's a knock on the door.
好吧，正当我们争论的时候，我们听到走廊里传来脚步声，然后有人敲门。
So she said, go ahead, open the door, very calmly.
于是她说，去吧，开门，很平静。
And it was like-- such an assurance about her.
这就像——对她的一种保证。
Like, she had a plan.
就像，她有一个计划。
In walks Bobby, well-dressed, handsome as always, polite, calls Carmen's mom Mrs. Nicastro.
鲍比走进来，衣着考究，一如既往地英俊潇洒，彬彬有礼，称卡门的妈妈为尼卡斯特罗夫人。
"Call me Ida," she says, and escorts him into the kitchen.
“叫我艾达，”她说，并护送他走进厨房。
She offers him a drink.
她请他喝一杯。
You're allowed to drink, aren't you?
你可以喝酒，不是吗？
Bobby was 19, but it's a weird move with the boy who's going to be driving your daughter.
鲍比 19 岁，但对于要为你女儿开车的男孩来说，这是一个奇怪的举动。
Carmen wonders what she's up to.
卡门想知道她在做什么。
So he sits down, and she gives him a drink of scotch.
于是他坐下来，她给他喝了一杯苏格兰威士忌。
And she asks him questions like, where are you from?
她问他这样的问题：你来自哪里？
What do you do?
你做什么工作？
Now, in the meantime, that chicken is scratching its way out of that box in the bathroom.
现在，与此同时，那只鸡正从浴室的盒子里爬出来。
And he was so kind.
他是如此善良。
Never said a word.
从来没有说过一句话。
He heard it.
他听到了。
You could see it on his face, because he'd look around like, where's this sound coming from?
你可以从他的脸上看到这一点，因为他会环顾四周，问这个声音是从哪里来的？
Oh, my god, I just wanted to die.
哦，天啊，我简直想死。
And every time the chicken would scratch at the box, I would [CLEARS THROAT], cough, or I would say, you know, we've got to go.
每当鸡抓伤盒子时，我就会[清喉咙]、咳嗽，或者我会说，你知道，我们得走了。
We've got to go.
我们得走了。
And my mom would say, just a minute.
我妈妈会说，等一下。
She had this way of saying "just a minute." Just a minute, hold your horses.
她用这样的方式说“等一下”。等一下，放马过来。
Bobby, come on, finish your drink.
鲍比，来吧，喝完你的酒。
How about another one?
再来一个怎么样？
OK, just a word right now about Carmen's mom Ida and what she's doing here.
好的，现在简单介绍一下卡门的妈妈艾达以及她在这里所做的事情。
Ida has been described to me as kind of scrappy, and sharp-witted, and willful, somebody who had to figure out how to make her way in the world.
在我看来，艾达是一个斗志旺盛、机智敏锐、任性的人，她必须想办法在这个世界上生存下去。
And if she wanted to convince you to do something, apparently, she was very hard to resist.
如果她想说服你做某事，显然她很难抗拒。
In the summer, she would pick up extra money as a barker on Coney Island, urging passersby to come in and buy tickets for the wax museum.
夏天，她会在康尼岛叫卖，敦促路人进来购买蜡像馆的门票，赚到额外的钱。
She had worked low-paying factory jobs all her life, on her feet all day, starting when she was 13, when her parents pulled her out of school to go to work and make money for the family.
从她13岁开始，她就一直在工厂里做着低薪工作，整天都在站着，当时她的父母让她辍学去上班，为家里赚钱。
When Carmen's dad her for the babysitter, she lost all of her friends, her family turned its back on her, and she had to fend for herself, learn to survive.
当卡门的父亲让她当保姆时，她失去了所有的朋友，她的家人也背弃了她，她必须自力更生，学会生存。
And she was a very sensitive woman.
而且她是一个非常敏感的女人。
She would wear her heart on her sleeve.
她会把自己的心挂在袖子上。
Very protective of Carmen, who was the baby of the family.
非常保护卡门，她是家里的宝贝。
Oh, but this boy in her kitchen?
哦，但是这个男孩在她的厨房里？
She just saw Sicilian.
她刚刚看到了西西里岛。
That's all she saw.
这就是她所看到的一切。
Right.
正确的。
Carmen Milito And she had a plan.
卡门·米利托 她有一个计划。
She was like a little-- crazy as a fox.
她就像一只小狐狸一样疯狂。
And then she said, wait a minute, I have to ask Bobby something.
然后她说，等一下，我得问鲍比一件事。
Tell me, Bobby, did you ever kill a chicken?
告诉我，鲍比，你杀过鸡吗？
And he looks around, he looks at me, and he goes, why, is there a problem?
他环顾四周，看着我，然后问道，为什么，有问题吗？
And she said no, no problem.
她说不，没问题。
She said, I just want to know if you ever killed a chicken.
她说，我只是想知道你杀过鸡吗？
And so he looks at her and says-- he lied.
于是他看着她说——他撒谎了。
He said, sure, yeah.
他说，当然，是的。
I killed a chicken.
我杀了一只鸡。
She goes, oh, I knew you did.
她说，哦，我就知道你这么做了。
And she goes, Bobby, listen.
她说，鲍比，听着。
Do me a favor, honey.
帮我一个忙，亲爱的。
I have this chicken in the bathroom.
我浴室里有这只鸡。
Would you do me a big favor?
你愿意帮我一个大忙吗？
Can you kill it before you leave?
你能在离开之前杀掉它吗？
Well, you could have heard a pin drop in that room.
好吧，你在那个房间里可能都能听到一根针掉在地上的声音。
It was silent.
一片寂静。
And I said, mom what-- no. And I'm screaming.
我说，妈妈什么——不。我在尖叫。
I'm carrying on.
我还在继续
No, you can't do this.
不，你不能这样做。
He's all dressed.
他都穿好衣服了
She goes, don't worry about it.
她走了，你不用担心。
I'll get him an apron.
我去给他买条围裙。
And then she grabs the chicken, she puts the apron on him, she goes in the bathroom, and she puts the box with the chicken on the table.
然后她抓起鸡肉，给他穿上围裙，走进浴室，把装有鸡肉的盒子放在桌子上。
And she says, here.
她说，在这里。
So he opens the box up, and this chicken's running around the box, and he closes the flap right away.
于是他打开盒子，这只鸡在盒子周围跑来跑去，他立即关上盖子。
And he goes, I don't know if I can do this.
他说，我不知道我是否能做到这一点。
And she goes, you said you could.
她走了，你说过你可以的。
Don't disappoint me now, Bobby.
现在不要让我失望，鲍比。
Please, you promised.
拜托，你答应过的。
And he's like, looking at me, and I'm looking at him, and all of a sudden I started to say, will he do this?
他看着我，我看着他，突然间我开始说，他会这么做吗？
And he closes the flaps, and he said, [SIGH].
然后他关上门板，然后说，[叹气]。
God, do you have a knife?
天哪，你有刀吗？
OK, I'm going to spare you the details of how he killed the chicken without getting blood on his white Ban-Lon shirt, or anything else.
好吧，我就不告诉你他是如何杀鸡而没有让他的白色班伦衬衫或其他任何东西沾上血的。
But it was swift and surprisingly deft for somebody who had never killed a chicken in his life.
但对于一个从来没有杀过鸡的人来说，他的速度很快，而且出奇的灵巧。
And I was, like, in shock.
我很震惊。
I couldn't move.
我无法动弹。
And my mother was dancing all over the kitchen.
我妈妈在厨房里跳舞。
You are a gem.
你是一颗宝石。
I think I'm going to love you.
我想我会爱你的。
You come back on Sunday, and I'm going to make you the best chicken cacciatore you ever ate in your life.
你周日回来，我会给你做你一生中吃过的最好的鸡肉cacciatore。
She gives him a towel to wipe his hands.
她给了他一条毛巾来擦手。
She was treating him like some god of sorts.
她对待他就像对待某种神一样。
I mean, she was, like, in heaven.
我的意思是，她就像在天堂一样。
And she looked at me, and she gave me this big wink and a thumbs-up sign, kind of.
她看着我，给了我一个大大的眨眼和一个竖起大拇指的手势。
It's like, you have a winner here.
就像，你在这里有一个赢家。
She goes, go ahead.
她走了，你继续吧。
Go out now and have a ball.
现在出去玩个球吧。
She said, you'll come back on Sunday?
她说，你周日回来吗？
And he said, I think so.
他说，我想是的。
Yeah, I guess.
是的，我想。
And we left and did not say a word to each other.
然后我们就离开了，彼此没有说一句话。
You and he didn't say a word to each other about--
你和他没有对彼此说过一句话——
Not a word.
一言不发。
A word was not spoken.
没有说话。
We sat in the car.
我们坐在车里。
And I just stared out.
我只是凝视着外面。
He stared out.
他凝视着外面。
And we started to laugh.
我们开始笑。
And that was the end of the conversation.
谈话就这样结束了。
Never again was it mentioned.
从此以后再也没有人提起过这件事。
What happened was, we continued to go out and see each other.
发生的事情是，我们继续出去见面。
And 56 years later, we're still married.
56 年后，我们仍然是夫妻。
This is the man of my dreams.
这就是我的梦中情人。
We're still married after 56 years.
56 年后我们仍然结婚。
Ira Glass Carmen says asking him to kill the chicken, it was a test.
艾拉·格拉斯·卡门说让他杀鸡，这是一个考验。
Any other guy would have said, you're crazy, lady.
任何其他人都会说，你疯了，女士。
I'm not going to kill this chicken.
我不会杀这只鸡。
She believed that that would have been his response, but he just, I guess, was in love with me, and just said, I've got to do it for her, you know?
她相信这会是他的回应，但我猜他只是爱我，只是说，我必须为她做这件事，你知道吗？
Oh that's what the test proved?
哦，测试证明是这样的吗？
It proved his feelings about you?
这证明了他对你的感情？
Yeah.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, totally.
哦，完全可以。
He killed something for me.
他为我杀了一些东西。
She knew that if he wasn't the guy for me, he would have never done this.
她知道如果他不是我喜欢的人，他永远不会这么做。
You know, I never really looked at it that way.
你知道，我从来没有真正这样看待过它。
I looked at it like my manhood was being questioned.
我看着它，就像我的男子气概受到质疑一样。
This, of course, is the man in question, Bobby.
当然，这就是我们讨论的那个人，鲍比。
Though Bobby was a nickname.
虽然鲍比是一个绰号。
As he got older, he switched to using his given name, Sebastian.
随着年龄的增长，他改用自己的名字塞巴斯蒂安。
You know, like, did I have the stones to kill a chicken?
你知道吗，我有杀死鸡的石头吗？
I was 19.
那年我19岁。
And see, when you're 19, you're insecure.
你看，当你19岁的时候，你就没有安全感了。
And she sort of threw a test, which I thought, maybe, was some primitive ritual that came from the village that-- they were from Naples, from Sorrento.
她进行了一次测试，我认为这可能是来自村庄的某种原始仪式——他们来自那不勒斯，来自索伦托。
And maybe that's how they did it in Sorrento.
也许他们在索伦托就是这么做的。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Sebastian They devised a test for--
塞巴斯蒂安 他们设计了一个测试——
Please don't call it primitive.
请不要称其为原始。
Don't say primitive.
别说原始。
I don't want to get letters from people from Sorrento.
我不想收到索伦托人的来信。
Anyway, I didn't want to be embarrassed in front of-- I don't want Carmen to think of me as not being manly enough to do something like that.
不管怎样，我不想在——我不想让卡门认为我没有足够的男子气概去做那样的事情。
But at that point, I don't think I did it out of love.
但在那一点上，我不认为我这样做是出于爱。
I mean, it's funny, because I think they both took it-- or at least her mom took it as a sign of, oh, you really like her.
我的意思是，这很有趣，因为我认为他们都接受了这一点——或者至少她妈妈认为这是一个标志，哦，你真的很喜欢她。
And it's funny to think that she got it wrong.
想到她弄错了，就觉得很有趣。
Well, I did like her.
嗯，我确实喜欢她。
I mean, I was crazy about her.
我的意思是，我为她疯狂。
But I didn't say, I'm going to do this for Carmen.
但我并没有说，我要为卡门做这件事。
It was just their second date, after all.
毕竟，这只是他们的第二次约会。
Would have done that for any girl's mom?
会对任何女孩的妈妈这样做吗？
You know, Ira, I can't think of any other girl's mom would ever ask me to do that.
你知道，艾拉，我想不出任何其他女孩的妈妈会要求我这样做。
She was very wily, and a good person.
她非常狡猾，而且是一个好人。
I mean, I loved her.
我是说，我爱她。
I loved her dearly.
我非常爱她。
Ira Glass When Carmen was 16 and her mom pulled off this plan, she was horrified.
当卡门 16 岁时，她的妈妈实现了这个计划，艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 感到非常震惊。
But now, she's two decades older than her mom was that day in 1963 when this happened, and she has kids and grandkids of her own.
但现在，她比 1963 年这件事发生时她妈妈年长了二十岁，而且她也有了自己的孩子和孙子。
And she sees her mom's actions that day very differently.
她对妈妈那天的行为有非常不同的看法。
I adore her for doing that.
我很欣赏她这样做。
I could cry, wanting that night back.
我可能会哭，想要回到那个夜晚。
The bravery of her to do something like that.
她有勇气做这样的事。
I can't imagine her doing anything else, actually.
事实上，我无法想象她还会做任何其他事情。
She wasn't a talker.
她不是一个爱说话的人。
She wouldn't have sat down with him and said, listen, I want you to respect my-- she wasn't going to say anything like that.
她不会和他坐下来说，听着，我希望你尊重我的——她不会说这样的话。
She was going to give him a test.
她要给他做一个测试。
And in that test, even though she was wrong about whether Sebastian had killed that bird out of love for Carmen, if you look at her mom's bigger conclusion, that he was going to be a reliable man for Carmen, that he was going to stick around and be there for Carmen, a half century later, it's probably safe to say she got that part right.
在那次测试中，尽管她错误地认为塞巴斯蒂安是否出于对卡门的爱而杀死了那只鸟，但如果你看看她妈妈更大的结论，他将成为卡门的可靠男人，他将留在卡门身边，半个世纪后，可以肯定地说她是对的。
Coming up, the rarest bird species in the world-- so rare that only one family in Massachusetts has ever spotted them, or until right now, even knows about them.
接下来是世界上最稀有的鸟类——它们非常罕见，以至于马萨诸塞州只有一个家庭曾经发现过它们，或者直到现在，甚至还知道它们。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, "Spark Bird." During this week, when the tradition is to gather together at a table around a bird, we have stories of spark birds, the birds that get it all started for somebody, that make you see things differently.
今天的节目是《火花鸟》。在这一周，当传统是围绕着一只鸟聚集在一张桌子旁时，我们会讲述火花鸟的故事，这些鸟为某人开启了一切，让你以不同的方式看待事物。
And if you're just tuning in, we began our program today with Noah Strycker, who's the author of The Thing With Feathers and other books on bird behavior, somebody who's spark bird was the turkey vulture.
如果你刚刚收看，我们今天的节目由诺亚·斯特莱克开始，他是《长着羽毛的东西》和其他有关鸟类行为的书籍的作者，火鸡秃鹰是火花鸟。
And one of our producers, Chloee Weiner, and I spent hours tromping around the woods with him in Creswell, Oregon, which was hours of actually doing the thing that today's show is about-- learning to see things differently through birds.
我们的制作人之一克洛伊·韦纳（Chloee Weiner）和我花了几个小时和他一起在俄勒冈州克雷斯韦尔的树林里漫步，这几个小时实际上是在做今天节目的主题——学习通过鸟类以不同的方式看待事物。
And I just want to play you a little more of this, because so much of what Noah told us along the way was new to me and Chloee.
我只是想让你们多玩一点，因为诺亚一路上告诉我们的很多东西对我和克洛伊来说都是新的。
For instance, Noah was telling us how this summer, late one night, he was home, and he heard this bird sound he'd never heard before.
例如，诺亚告诉我们今年夏天的一个深夜，他回到家，听到了他以前从未听过的鸟叫声。
I don't even know.
我什至不知道。
It was like [IMITATING BIRD CALL].
就像[模仿鸟叫]。
And I came running out here with my flashlight because it was dark, because I had no idea what it was, and tracked it down.
我带着手电筒跑到这里，因为天很黑，因为我不知道那是什么，并找到了它。
And it was a fledgling screech owl sitting on a branch.
那是一只坐在树枝上的尖角鸮雏鸟。
And it's just like-- it hadn't learned yet how to make the proper screech owl noise?
就像——它还没有学会如何发出正确的尖叫猫头鹰声音？
Yeah.
是的。
Birds babble, just like human babies do.
鸟类会咿呀学语，就像人类婴儿一样。
Scientists will call it subsong, and have these other technical terms for it, but it's just birds learning how to sound like birds.
科学家们将其称为亚歌，并有其他技术术语，但这只是鸟类学习如何像鸟类一样发声。
Birds babble like human babies do.
鸟类像人类婴儿一样咿呀学语。
I didn't know.
我不知道。
I honestly never think about the fact that I live in the middle of a whole world of birds.
老实说，我从来没有想过我生活在整个鸟类世界的中间。
I don't notice them.
我没注意到他们。
I don't hear them singing.
我没有听到他们唱歌。
But of course, Noah cannot stop himself from hearing them, and instantly recognizing that that's a Pacific grand, that's a chestnut-backed chickadee, or whatever.
当然，诺亚无法阻止自己听到它们，并立即认出那是一架太平洋三角钢琴，那是一只栗背山雀，或者其他什么。
And he doesn't just hear the bird sounds when he's walking around outside.
当他在外面散步时，他不仅仅听到鸟叫声。
Becoming a birder ruins Hollywood movies for you forever, because whatever bird sounds are in the background, in the soundtrack, whether they're just natural or whether they've dubbed them in, even, they're never the birds that would be in the place that the movie is set, at the season that it's set in.
成为一个观鸟者会永远毁掉你的好莱坞电影，因为无论背景、配乐中是什么鸟叫声，无论它们是自然的还是配音的，甚至，它们永远不会是电影拍摄地、拍摄季节的鸟儿。
And it drives me nuts.
这让我发疯。
I mean, how hard would it be to put the proper bird sounds in there?
我的意思是，将适当的鸟声放在那里有多难？
Like, what's a movie that this happened to you in?
比如，你在哪部电影中遇到过这种情况？
Well, just yesterday, I saw the movie Spencer, the new Lady Di movie.
嗯，就在昨天，我看了电影《斯宾塞》，新的《迪夫人》电影。
They had red-winged blackbirds in the background.
他们的背景中有红翅黑鸟。
This is supposed to be, what, in like, Europe, in the UK somewhere.
这应该是，在欧洲，在英国的某个地方。
Red-winged blackbirds don't live in Europe.
红翅黑鸟并不生活在欧洲。
That's a whole continent away from where they would actually live.
那距离他们实际居住的地方整整一个大陆。
They had Steller's jays in the background, and all kinds of North American species.
他们的背景是北鸦，以及各种北美物种。
So obviously, this movie was filmed by North Americans who were dubbing in North American birds into a completely wrong background.
很明显，这部电影是由北美人拍摄的，他们在完全错误的背景下为北美鸟类配音。
And just the lengths to which they go to get all of the historical details and period pieces accurate, the shape of the headlight, that no one is ever going to know, honestly, when you watch the movie.
他们为了让所有历史细节和时代片段准确无误而付出了多少努力，还有车头灯的形状，说实话，当你看电影时，没有人会知道这些。
And yet the bird sounds are all over the map.
然而鸟叫声却遍布地图上。
And there are so many birders out there, like me, who know what they're listening to.
那里有很多像我一样的观鸟者，他们知道自己在听什么。
That's not unusual.
这并不罕见。
This, I guess, would be the downside of having a birder open your eyes to something about the world that most people don't notice.
我想，这就是让观鸟者睁开眼睛看到大多数人没有注意到的世界的缺点。
It wouldn't be hard to fix this, Noah says.
诺亚说，解决这个问题并不难。
There are archives with most bird sounds.
有大多数鸟类声音的档案。
Movie sound editors, Noah would love to hook you up.
电影声音编辑器，诺亚很乐意与您联系。
Drop him a line, he says.
他说，给他写封信。
And of course, the problem is, the world doesn't care about birders.
当然，问题是，世界并不关心观鸟者。
Hollywood knows that they'll continue to show up with their factually inaccurate movies and stream their error-ridden television shows, because where else are they going to go when they need to watch something that's indoors and not wild, alive, and feathered?
好莱坞知道他们将继续推出与事实不准确的电影并播放错误百出的电视节目，因为当他们需要观看室内而不是狂野、生机勃勃和羽毛的东西时，他们还能去哪里呢？
Act Two: A Scrub Is a Bird That Can’t Get No Love From Me Ira Glass Act 2, A Scrub is a Bird that Can't Get No Love from Me.
第二幕：磨砂是一只无法从我这里得到爱的鸟 艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕，磨砂是一只无法从我这里得到爱的鸟。
So we now turn to a spark bird that started a political fight, a fight that has lasted for a very long time, concerning one state's official state bird.
因此，我们现在转向一只火花鸟，它引发了一场政治斗争，这场斗争持续了很长时间，涉及一个州的官方州鸟。
Bim Adewunmi tells the tale.
Bim Adewunmi 讲述了这个故事。
The thing about an official state bird is that it just really doesn't matter.
官方的州鸟的问题在于，这其实并不重要。
I say that with no intended disrespect to birders across the nation.
我这样说并不是有意不尊重全国观鸟者。
Some of my best friends are birders.
我的一些最好的朋友是观鸟者。
But think about it.
但想一想。
When was the last time you sat down and truly considered the scissor-tailed flycatcher, who is the avian embodiment of the state of Oklahoma?
您最后一次坐下来真正思考剪尾鹟是什么时候？它是俄克拉荷马州的鸟类化身？
Exactly.
确切地。
It's absurd.
这太荒谬了。
A state bird has nothing to do with the state's GDP, for example.
例如，州鸟与该州的 GDP 无关。
It doesn't tell us how happy the children are.
它没有告诉我们孩子们有多快乐。
It makes no one's life materially better or worse.
它不会使任何人的生活在物质上变得更好或更糟。
And yet in Florida, the debate about which flying animal deserves the title of official state bird has been ongoing for more than two decades.
然而在佛罗里达州，关于哪种飞行动物值得获得官方州鸟称号的争论已经持续了二十多年。
The state bird means nothing.
国鸟没有任何意义。
But somehow, in Florida, it's come to mean a hell of a lot.
但不知何故，在佛罗里达州，它变得意义重大。
Florida was actually one of the first states to designate a state bird, back in 1927.
早在 1927 年，佛罗里达州就成为最早指定州鸟的州之一。
It was probably a simple choice.
这可能是一个简单的选择。
The northern mockingbird is a good bird, as birds go.
就鸟类而言，北方知更鸟是一种好鸟。
It likes to sing.
它喜欢唱歌。
It has an incredible talent for mimicry.
它具有令人难以置信的模仿天赋。
And with its gray coloring, it's cute.
而且它的灰色颜色很可爱。
Here's the thing, though.
不过，事情是这样的。
The northern mockingbird is the official bird of another four states besides Florida.
北方知更鸟是除佛罗里达州之外的另外四个州的官方鸟类。
It's actually the third most popular state bird, behind the northern cardinal and the western meadowlark.
它实际上是第三大最受欢迎的州鸟，仅次于北方红雀和西部草地鹨。
After 72 years, some people have had enough of this spread-thin state bird.
72 年过去了，有些人已经受够了这种瘦弱的州鸟。
Enter the spark bird of this story, the scrub jay.
进入这个故事的火花鸟，灌丛鸦。
The Florida scrub jay is the only bird on the planet that is found only in Florida.
佛罗里达灌丛鸦是地球上唯一仅在佛罗里达州发现的鸟类。
It's a sturdy-looking bird with a dull blue head and wings.
这是一种看起来很强壮的鸟，有着暗蓝色的头部和翅膀。
It's unclear exactly why the late Republican Rep.
目前尚不清楚已故共和党众议员的具体原因。
Howard Futch was such a champion for the scrub jay, but in 1999, he co-sponsored a bill for it to become the state bird.
霍华德·福奇 (Howard Futch) 是灌丛鸦的拥护者，但在 1999 年，他与他人共同发起了一项法案，要求灌丛鸦成为州鸟。
Maybe it was the fact that Futch represented Brevard County, which used to have the highest number of scrub jays in the state.
也许是因为福奇代表布里瓦德县，该县曾经是该州灌丛鸦数量最多的地方。
But I think he just liked the bird.
但我认为他只是喜欢这只鸟。
As he puts it, "It's got good family values, it's kind, and it's a bird that likes people."
正如他所说，“它有良好的家庭观念，它很善良，而且它是一种喜欢人类的鸟。”
Scrub jays do something called cooperative breeding, which means that each nest has an adult pair, but it also has helpers, usually the older siblings of the newest jay babies, who help feed the young and defend territory.
灌丛松鸦会进行一种称为合作繁殖的行为，这意味着每个巢穴都有一对成年松鸦，但它也有帮手，通常是刚出生的松鸦宝宝的哥哥姐姐，他们帮助喂养幼鸟并保卫领地。
Very different, in Futch's opinion, from the mockingbird.
在法奇看来，这与知更鸟非常不同。
"The mockingbird, a lot of people love that sucker," he said, "but it's pretty mean."
“知更鸟，很多人都喜欢那个笨蛋，”他说，“但它非常卑鄙。”
There's nothing human beings cannot make about themselves, even birds.
没有什么是人类不能创造的，即使是鸟类。
And the fight over the Florida state bird very quickly became loaded with familiar political tropes.
围绕佛罗里达州鸟的争论很快就充满了熟悉的政治比喻。
On the side of the status quo, the side of the incumbent mockingbird, was one of Florida's most famous seniors, Marion Hammer.
站在现状一边，现任反舌鸟的一边是佛罗里达州最著名的老年人之一，马里昂·汉默(Marion Hammer)。
Hammer is a long-time lobbyist with the National Rifle Association, and the architect of Florida's "stand your ground" law.
汉默是国家步枪协会的长期说客，也是佛罗里达州“坚持立场”法律的制定者。
And she is no fan of the Florida scrub jay.
她也不喜欢佛罗里达灌丛鸦。
In her committee testimony, Hammer dismissed the bird as a thieving scrounger in the strongest possible terms.
在她的委员会证词中，哈默以最强烈的措辞驳斥了这只鸟，称其为小偷。
"They eat the eggs of other birds," she said.
“它们吃其他鸟的蛋，”她说。
"That's robbery and murder." And in response to the scrub jay's alleged friendliness, exemplified by the way it eats out of humans' hands, she had a rebuttal.
“这就是抢劫和谋杀。”针对灌丛鸦所谓的友善，例如它从人类手中进食的方式，她进行了反驳。
"Begging for food isn't sweet.
“乞讨食物并不甜蜜。
It's lazy, and it's a welfare mentality." The response from the other side was just as harsh.
这是懒惰，也是一种福利心态。”对方的反应也同样严厉。
Democrat Rep.
民主党众议员
Mark Pafford called the mockingbird "an obnoxious, plagiarizing, and promiscuous bully."
马克·帕福德称这只知更鸟是“令人讨厌、抄袭、滥交的恶霸”。
State Rep.
州众议员
Futch and the scrub jay have the Audubon Society on their side, and they also had a chunk of Florida citizens-- schoolchildren.
福奇和灌丛松鸦有奥杜邦协会的支持，他们还有一大群佛罗里达公民——学童。
Thousands of them signed a petition in support of the scrub jay.
数千人签署了一份支持灌丛鸦的请愿书。
Hammer had a hunch about who was behind these passionate schoolchildren.
哈默预感到谁是这些充满热情的学童的幕后黑手。
She suggested they had been influenced by environmentalists trying to secure extra protections for the scrub jay.
她表示，他们受到了环保主义者的影响，试图为灌丛鸦提供额外的保护。
It's adults hiding behind impressionable children, she said.
她说，是成年人躲在易受影响的孩子背后。
If they get it on the endangered list, you can kiss your property rights goodbye.
如果他们把它列入濒危名单，你就可以和你的财产权吻别了。
This had begun as an argument about something that means nothing, but now it had become an argument about the biggest things.
这场争论一开始只是为了一些毫无意义的事情而争论，但现在它已经变成了一场关于最重大事情的争论。
It would have been neater if the camps were strictly Republican versus Democrat, but bird choice and party affiliation didn't always align.
如果阵营严格是共和党与民主党，那就更整洁了，但鸟类的选择和党派关系并不总是一致。
The choice of state bird became a proxy referendum about what traits Floridians should find admirable.
州鸟的选择成为了一场关于佛罗里达人应该欣赏哪些特征的代理公投。
Depending on which side you were on, the mockingbird was either a stand-in for rugged, talented individualism, or it was a raucous bully.
根据你站在哪一边，知更鸟要么是粗犷、才华横溢的个人主义的替身，要么是一个喧闹的恶霸。
And the scrub jay, seen through one lens as nurturing family values, and sweet enough to pal around with humans, somehow also became the poster child for a reliance on big government and its handouts.
从某种角度来看，灌丛松鸦被视为培育家庭价值观，并且足够可爱，可以与人类交朋友，不知何故，它也成为依赖大政府及其施舍的典型代表。
Here's where it is now.
这就是现在的位置。
In the 2022 legislative session, there will be three new bills, from Democrats and Republicans alike, to change the state bird.
在 2022 年立法会议上，民主党和共和党将提出三项新法案来改变州鸟。
By the way, there are other candidates besides the scrub jay.
顺便说一下，除了灌丛鸦之外，还有其他候选者。
Every previous bill has died in committee.
之前的每一项法案都在委员会中被否决。
It always dies in committee.
它总是死在委员会里。
But hope dies last.
但希望最后还是破灭了。
As recently as last month, Hammer was defending the mockingbird and making the scrub jays sound like phantoms from a '90s crime bill, calling them "evil little birds that rob the nests of other birds and eat their eggs and kill their babies.
就在上个月，哈默还在为反舌鸟辩护，并让灌丛鸦听起来像是90年代犯罪法案中的幽灵，称它们为“邪恶的小鸟，它们会抢劫其他鸟的巢穴，吃掉它们的蛋并杀死它们的孩子。”
One might call that street gang behavior in the avian community."
人们可能会称之为鸟类社区中的街头帮派行为。”
I'm very familiar with irrational and hyperbolic debates about regional fauna.
我非常熟悉有关区域动物群的非理性和夸张的争论。
In my own home country, the UK, we are not above turning benign animal behavior into weird politicking.
在我自己的祖国英国，我们不惜将良性的动物行为变成奇怪的政治活动。
There has long been a PR battle waged between the indigenous and endangered red squirrel, by some accounts, a noble and scrappy creature, and the gray squirrel, a larger, invasive American interloper who has ideas well above its station.
长期以来，本土濒临灭绝的红松鼠和灰松鼠之间一直存在着一场公关战。红松鼠是一种高贵而斗志旺盛的动物，根据某些说法，灰松鼠是一种体型较大、具有侵略性的美国闯入者，其想法远远超出了其地位。
It has brought forth every type of nativist narrative you can imagine.
它带来了你能想象到的各种本土主义叙事。
In a debate in the House of Lords in 2006, Lady Saltoun of Abernethy likened the red squirrel to "quiet, well-behaved people who do not make a nuisance or an exhibition of themselves, or commit crimes, and so do not get themselves into the papers in the vulgar way gray squirrels do."
在 2006 年上议院的一场辩论中，阿伯内西的索尔顿夫人将红松鼠比作“安静、行为良好的人，他们不会制造麻烦，不会表现自己，也不会犯罪，因此不会像灰松鼠那样粗俗地登上报纸。”
When I was at University, I swear I read tabloid stories that basically compared gray squirrels to American GIs during and after World War II-- overfed, oversexed, and over here.
当我在大学时，我发誓我读过一些小报故事，这些故事基本上将灰松鼠与二战期间和战后的美国大兵进行了比较——吃得过多、性欲过剩，还有这里。
Since 2008, Prince Charles has been the patron of the Red Squirrel Survival Trust.
自 2008 年以来，查尔斯王子一直是红松鼠生存信托基金的赞助人。
In 2017, the Prince backed a government plan to sterilize gray squirrels, using Nutella as bait.
2017年，王子支持政府一项以花生酱为诱饵对灰松鼠进行绝育的计划。
That's a step beyond what Floridians are doing.
这比佛罗里达人所做的更进一步。
They've yet to weaponize any spreads or condiments in their fight to choose a state bird-- a state bird whose anointment will make no one's life worse or better.
在选择州鸟的斗争中，他们还没有将任何涂抹酱或调味品武器化——这种州鸟的涂油不会让任何人的生活变得更糟或更美好。
(HOST) IRA GLASS.
（主持人）IRA 玻璃。
Bim Adewunmi.
比姆·阿德温米.
She fears no birds and respects only one-- the crow.
她不怕鸟，只尊重一种鸟——乌鸦。
Act Three: We Need to Talk About Birdly Ira Glass Act 3, We Need to Talk About Birdly.
第三幕：我们需要谈谈 Birdly Ira Glass 第三幕，我们需要谈谈 Birdly。
OK, I just want to say a word about what I find interesting about this next story.
好吧，我只想说一下我觉得下一个故事有趣的地方。
I think every couple, there are the things that you share and talk about with each other, and then other things you don't share so much.
我认为每对夫妻，都有一些你们会分享和谈论的事情，也有一些你们不常分享的事情。
But each couple has to kind of invent or discover the territory of stuff that they have in common, and where they meet up.
但每对夫妇都必须发明或发现他们的共同点以及他们相遇的地方。
And the more stuff in that territory, probably, the better because the more chances you have to connect, and feel close, and all that.
那个领域的东西越多，可能就越好，因为你有更多的机会联系，感觉更亲近，等等。
The couple in this story, they had their stuff.
这个故事中的这对夫妇，他们有自己的东西。
They were even raising kids together, which is obviously a huge thing like that.
他们甚至一起抚养孩子，这显然是一件大事。
But as the kids got older, the couple invented this whole other original common ground for themselves.
但随着孩子们长大，这对夫妇为自己发明了另一个最初的共同点。
Also, there's birds.
另外，还有鸟。
Sean Cole explains.
肖恩·科尔解释道。
Before I get into what this story is about, I just want to say that the couple in question, Peter and his wife Maddy, are normal people.
在我开始讲这个故事之前，我只想说这对夫妇，彼得和他的妻子玛迪，都是普通人。
Welcome.
欢迎。
Come in.
进来吧。
Sean Cole Thank you.
肖恩·科尔 谢谢你。
Their house in Northampton, Massachusetts is so normal, it's beige.
他们位于马萨诸塞州北安普顿的房子很普通，是米色的。
Four bedrooms upstairs, one for each kid.
楼上有四间卧室，每个孩子一间。
Peter and Maddy crammed themselves into the attic for a long time.
彼得和麦迪在阁楼里挤了很长一段时间。
They're a blended family.
他们是一个混血家庭。
Peter came to the marriage with two sons.
彼得带着两个儿子参加了婚礼。
Maddy has a son and a daughter.
麦迪有一个儿子和一个女儿。
All of them are grown, doing well.
他们都已长大，表现良好。
Now, it's just the parents at home.
现在家里只有父母。
Maddy works as a lawyer.
麦迪是一名律师。
Recently won a big case through the Innocence Project.
最近通过“清白计划”赢得了一个大案子。
So I do trial work and I do appellate work.
所以我做审判工作，也做上诉工作。
Peter is a professional musician, has toured Europe playing Bach arrangements on a special guitar he designed.
彼得是一位专业音乐家，曾在欧洲巡回演出，用他设计的特殊吉他演奏巴赫的改编作品。
Like, I've been an artist all my life.
就像，我一生都是一名艺术家。
I think about it, I'm really grateful for that.
我想了想，我真的很感激这一点。
And for more than 10 years now, a sizable number of their conversations with each other concern a family of imaginary birds with whom they live.
十多年来，他们彼此之间的大部分对话都与他们生活在一起的想象中的鸟类家庭有关。
Six birds who do not exist, and yet each have names and distinct personalities, successes and failures.
六只不存在的鸟，但每只都有名字和独特的个性、成功和失败。
Most of them have corresponding stuffed animals associated with them.
他们中的大多数都有与之相关的相应毛绒动物。
Peter and Maddy might spend more time talking about these birds than about anything in reality.
彼得和麦迪可能会花更多的时间谈论这些鸟，而不是现实中的任何事情。
The birds' lives resemble those of grade-school children.
这些鸟的生活与小学生的生活相似。
They attend Bird Academy, ride there on the bird bus, and they're kind of little menaces, always accidentally spilling things on themselves and throwing parties at the house when Peter and Maddy are away.
他们在鸟类学院上学，乘坐鸟类巴士，他们是一种小威胁，总是不小心把东西洒在自己身上，并在彼得和麦迪不在的时候在家里举办派对。
Yet they somehow also medaled in the Olympics and recorded a Grammy award-winning record.
然而，他们也在奥运会上获得了奖牌，并创下了格莱美获奖记录。
Here's Maddy.
这是麦迪。
It's odd.
很奇怪。
I mean, I know it's odd.
我的意思是，我知道这很奇怪。
Upon reflection, because it's like this Byzantine storyline now-- it's every day.
仔细想想，因为现在就像拜占庭式的故事情节一样——每天都是这样。
And it's, like, woven all through the day.
它就像一整天都在编织。
And for example, if I was doing something at work, like a difficult meeting with a client at a jail, or something, then afterwards, when I would call Peter to say, I'm on my way home, or whatever, then he would say, how were the birds?
举例来说，如果我在工作中做某事，比如在监狱里与客户进行一次艰难的会面，或者其他什么，那么之后，当我打电话给彼得说，我正在回家的路上，或者其他什么时，那么他会说，鸟儿怎么样？
Like how did they do?
比如他们做得怎么样？
And then I would say, terrible, usually.
然后我会说，通常很糟糕。
Usually, the birds do terribly.
通常，鸟儿表现得很糟糕。
So the birds had a tantrum in the car with my colleague.
于是鸟儿就在车里和我的同事发脾气了。
The birds were rude to the investigator.
这些鸟对调查员很粗鲁。
Like, that's sort of how it arises a lot, is asking how the birds managed what we were managing, sort of.
就像，这就是它经常出现的方式，询问鸟类如何管理我们正在管理的事情。
Like, when Peter went up to Maine to visit his son Chester, who just fixed up an old boat that he was sailing and living on, which Peter is really proud of him for having accomplished.
就像，当彼得去缅因州看望他的儿子切斯特时，他刚刚修好了一艘他正在航行和居住的旧船，彼得为他所完成的成就感到非常自豪。
And of course, when I'm on the phone with Maddy, calling her from up there, it's like, well, the birds didn't really like the boat.
当然，当我从上面给麦迪打电话时，感觉就像是，嗯，鸟儿不太喜欢这艘船。
The boat is really small.
船确实很小。
They thought it was going to be like the boat on the TV show Succession, the nice yacht.
他们认为这会像电视节目《继承》中的那艘船一样，是一艘漂亮的游艇。
Which, by the way, is not how Peter felt about the boat.
顺便说一句，这并不是彼得对这艘船的看法。
The views and opinions of the birds do not necessarily reflect those of Peter and Maddy.
鸟类的观点和意见并不一定反映彼得和麦迪的观点和意见。
Sometimes, they do, but it's not that simple.
有时，他们会这样做，但事情并不那么简单。
It's more like they're this messy Greek chorus that always has to be accounted for and factored into almost every experience.
更像是这支混乱的希腊合唱团，几乎每一次经历都必须考虑和考虑。
And it's like a very elaborate running joke.
这就像一个精心设计的笑话。
They like seeing what each other is going to come up with next, poke fun at each other via the birds.
他们喜欢看看对方接下来会想出什么，通过鸟儿互相取笑。
Push and pull and go, no the birds don't do that.
推、拉、走，不，鸟儿不会这样做。
The birds do this.
鸟儿就是这么做的。
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
The birds hate skating.
鸟儿讨厌滑冰。
And it's like, wait, what about Birds on Ice?
就像，等等，《冰上的鸟》怎么样？
The birds have an annual event called Birdfest.
这些鸟儿每年都会举办一场名为“观鸟节”的活动。
Which is always canceled at the last minute.
这总是在最后一刻被取消。
At the last minute, it will turn out they didn't really have a permit, they hadn't really spoken to Beyonce's manager.
在最后一刻，事实证明他们并没有真正获得许可，他们还没有真正与碧昂斯的经理交谈。
The throwing out ideas and coming to a consensus is a lot of how they built the bird world.
抛出想法并达成共识是他们构建鸟类世界的大部分方式。
For instance, the birds are really into milkshakes.
例如，鸟类非常喜欢奶昔。
Their birdmobiles are outfitted with special shake machines.
他们的鸟类车配备了特殊的摇动机。
But they filed a lawsuit against Shake Shack after one of them got his head feathers caught in a ceiling fan.
但他们对 Shake Shack 提起诉讼，因为其中一名员工的头羽毛被吊扇卡住了。
Which is really a shame, because the birds love Shake Shack.
这真的很遗憾，因为鸟儿喜欢 Shake Shack。
But they're not banned from Shake Shack.
但他们并没有被禁止参加 Shake Shack。
They're not banned, but it must have soured them on the whole Shake Shack experience.
他们没有被禁止，但这一定让他们对整个 Shake Shack 体验感到失望。
I don't think so, honey.
我不这么认为，亲爱的。
They got a ton of money, and they still can get shakes there.
他们有很多钱，但他们仍然可以在那里受到震动。
OK.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Sean Cole It's important to say, too, this is the first time Peter and Maddy have ever talked about the birds in front of anyone.
肖恩·科尔：同样重要的是，这是彼得和麦迪第一次在任何人面前谈论鸟类。
Other than their kids-- and Peter's therapist once or twice, in passing-- they've never mentioned the birds to a single soul until now.
除了他们的孩子——顺便还有彼得的治疗师一两次——到目前为止，他们从未向任何人提起过这些鸟。
It's just too out there, they told me, and too hard to explain, which means this is also the first time they've had to answer any questions about the birds.
他们告诉我，这太离奇了，而且很难解释，这意味着这也是他们第一次必须回答有关鸟类的问题。
They've never examined any of this, even in private.
他们从未研究过这些，即使是私下里也是如此。
So when I asked them something like why they do it, or what they get out of it, they really had to puzzle together those answers in real time, as I sat with them.
因此，当我问他们为什么这样做，或者他们从中得到什么时，当我和他们坐在一起时，他们真的必须实时拼凑出这些答案。
I'm not trying to sell it.
我并不是想卖掉它。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I'm just reporting it, that it's happening here.
我只是报告一下，事情就发生在这里。
Sean Cole And the whole thing with the birds, it isn't just frivolous.
肖恩·科尔（Sean Cole）：与鸟类有关的整个事情并不只是无聊的事情。
It's actually been helpful in the family in some ways, and hurtful too, which I'll get to.
实际上，这在某些方面对家庭有帮助，但也有伤害，我会谈到这一点。
But just to say how it began, the birds first entered their lives about a dozen years ago, when Maddy's daughter-- Peter's stepdaughter-- Eva, bought Maddy a little stuffed toy monster.
但只是说它是如何开始的，大约十几年前，这些鸟第一次进入他们的生活，当时麦迪的女儿——彼得的继女——伊娃给麦迪买了一个小毛绒玩具怪物。
Technically, it was something called an UglyDoll, but to Maddy, it looked like a bird.
从技术上讲，它是一种叫做“丑娃娃”的东西，但对麦迪来说，它看起来像一只鸟。
Eva was only about 12 years old at the time.
伊娃当时只有12岁左右。
And I do think it was the first thing that she had ever bought for me.
我确实认为这是她给我买的第一件东西。
So it was a very sweet gift.
所以这是一份非常甜蜜的礼物。
And I just loved it so much.
我非常喜欢它。
And then I gave it this silly name, Birdly.
然后我给它起了一个愚蠢的名字，Birdly。
So Birdly was the spark bird, the bird that sparked the, capital B, Birds.
所以 Birdly 是火花鸟，是激发大写 B 鸟的鸟。
Maddy started bringing Birdly everywhere.
麦迪开始把 Birdly 带到各个地方。
Birdly rode in the car with her.
鸟儿和她一起坐车。
She took him on vacation.
她带他去度假。
Peter would idly toss him to the other side of the bed, and Maddy would be like, hey, careful.
彼得会懒洋洋地把他扔到床的另一边，而麦迪会说，嘿，小心点。
And this hadn't dawned on Maddy until we talked about it, but this was around the same time that her custody arrangement with her ex-husband was changing.
直到我们谈论这件事之前，麦蒂才意识到这一点，但大约在同一时间，她与前夫的监护权安排发生了变化。
Used to be, the kids would never be away from her for more than three days at a time.
以前，孩子们离开她的时间从来不会超过三天。
But then they switched to one week on, one week off.
但后来他们改为一周休息一周。
And in the beginning, the week that I did not have them felt like an eternity.
一开始，没有它们的一周感觉就像是永恒。
It was a challenge.
这是一个挑战。
I think it was fair, and I think it was the right thing to do, but that was a period that I was missing my children.
我认为这是公平的，我认为这是正确的做法，但那是我想念孩子们的时期。
So I think that may have been why I got super attached, even, to the bird that she gave me.
所以我想这可能就是为什么我对她送给我的那只鸟非常依恋。
And very quickly, Birdly grew a personality of his own-- adventurous, irresponsible, Machiavellian.
很快，伯德就形成了自己的个性——爱冒险、不负责任、不择手段。
He'd take out credit cards in Peter and Maddy's names, neglect to file his taxes for five years.
他会以彼得和麦迪的名义取出信用卡，并连续五年没有报税。
But Maddy would dote on him nonetheless.
但麦迪还是很宠他。
At first, I found Birdly really annoying.
起初，我觉得 Birdly 真的很烦人。
She just got so exaggerated about how precious he was.
她只是太夸张了他的珍贵。
And I would just be like, OK, all right, you know like, please.
我会说，好吧，好吧，你知道的，拜托。
And then somewhere, I crossed some line and moved over into, well, he didn't do a thing to help do the dishes, or something, you know?
然后在某个地方，我越过了一些界限，进入了，好吧，他没有做任何事情来帮助洗碗，或者其他什么，你知道吗？
Like, participating in it.
喜欢，参与其中。
And then she'd be like, what?
然后她会说，什么？
He had to work on his presentation for school tomorrow.
他必须为明天的学校做演讲。
And we would talk about it--
我们会谈论它——
The psychologist and marriage expert John Gottman talks about how couples are always sending each other these little requests for attention-- subtle, like, wow, would you look at that sunset?
心理学家兼婚姻专家约翰·戈特曼 (John Gottman) 谈到，夫妻之间总是会向对方发送这些小请求，以引起对方的关注——微妙的，比如，哇，你愿意看日落吗？
Sometimes, the other partner just shrugs.
有时，另一方只是耸耸肩。
But in some couples, the more contented ones, the partner responds enthusiastically, like, oh, wow, yeah!
但在一些夫妻中，更满足的夫妻，伴侣会热情地回应，比如，哦，哇，是啊！
It's beautiful.
很美丽。
I think the birds are requests like that.
我想鸟儿们也有这样的要求。
Sometimes, the birds will even swoop in and help them communicate something that's difficult to express.
有时，鸟儿甚至会猛扑过来帮助他们传达一些难以表达的东西。
Like, this one time-- he's fine now.
就像，这一次——他现在很好。
But Peter was deathly ill.
但彼得却病重了。
He had a bacterial infection in his spine.
他的脊柱出现细菌感染。
And they were driving back from a doctor's appointment where they'd gotten some bad news.
他们去看完医生开车回来，得到了一些坏消息。
The mood in the car was dire.
车上的气氛十分糟糕。
And after saying nothing for a long time, Peter goes, oh, we have to stop at the mall.
很长一段时间什么也没说后，彼得说，哦，我们必须在商场停下来。
The birds want to go to the mall.
鸟儿想去商场。
I mean, what else are you going to say, right?
我的意思是，你还想说什么，对吧？
Yeah, I remember it as the best way for me to say something like, don't worry about me.
是的，我记得这是我说“别担心我”之类的话的最好方式。
I mean, you can't tell her not to worry.
我的意思是，你不能告诉她不要担心。
But you can talk about the birds.
但你可以谈论鸟类。
What about the birds?
那鸟儿呢？
They want to go to the mall.
他们想去商场。
Sean Cole And then here's the way in which the birds have not been so great for the family.
肖恩·科尔：这些鸟对于这个家庭来说并不是那么好。
Again, there are four kids.
再说一次，有四个孩子。
And they each had somewhat different responses to Bird World.
而他们对鸟世界的反应也各有不同。
The oldest, Torsten, thought it was kind of funny, and he left for college anyway, not long after it started.
最年长的托斯顿觉得这有点有趣，但无论如何，他在大学开始后不久就去上大学了。
Hank was indifferent, accepted it as some kind of code that his parents used to communicate.
汉克对此漠不关心，将其视为他父母用来交流的某种代码。
Chester, the very youngest of the four, thought it was annoying and not funny.
切斯特是四个人中最小的一个，他认为这很烦人而且不好笑。
And then there was Eva who, again, gave Maddy, her mother, the doll in the first place, and who was the most aggrieved.
然后就是伊娃，她又把娃娃送给了她的妈妈麦迪，她也是最受委屈的。
Oh I was definitely jealous.
哦，我绝对嫉妒了。
Sean Cole This is Eva.
肖恩·科尔 这是伊娃。
She's 25 now.
她现在25岁了。
I was jealous of Birdly.
我很嫉妒伯德利。
I don't know if I felt forgotten, but I was definitely jealous.
我不知道我是否感到被遗忘，但我确实嫉妒。
Now, as the youngest of Maddy's two kids, Eva was used to being the baby, doted on, showered with affection.
现在，作为麦迪两个孩子中最小的一个，伊娃已经习惯了当婴儿，被宠爱，被充满爱意。
And suddenly, she had to bear witness to this overwhelming, overweening geyser of praise and attention her mom gave Birdly and the other birds.
突然间，她不得不亲眼目睹妈妈给予伯德利和其他鸟儿的热烈的赞美和关注。
The theme that bothers me the most is, if you say something about your life, and then the birds have their own thing about their life.
最让我困扰的主题是，如果你说一些关于你的生活的事情，那么鸟儿对它们的生活有自己的看法。
So it would be like, if you got an A, the birds either got an A++, or they got an F-.
所以这就好像，如果你得了 A，鸟儿要么得 A++，要么得 F-。
But mom is still, somehow, more interested in their F- than she is in your A, which I'm sure wasn't true, but that's just how it felt at the time.
但不知何故，妈妈仍然对他们的 F- 比对你的 A 更感兴趣，我确信这不是真的，但这就是当时的感觉。
That's really when the intense dislike of Birdly began to build.
从那时起，人们对伯德利的厌恶感就开始产生了。
And build, and build, and build, until sometimes, it exploded.
建造、建造、建造，直到有时，它爆炸了。
I don't think I was clear enough that I wasn't kidding when I am saying that the birds thing bothers me.
当我说鸟类问题困扰我时，我认为我没有说清楚我不是在开玩笑。
I'm not playing along with the bird universe, where nobody likes the birds, and they're sticky and annoying, and they're failing out of classes, and their teachers are reporting them.
我不会和鸟类一起玩，那里没有人喜欢鸟类，它们很粘人，很烦人，而且它们在课堂上不及格，它们的老师正在举报它们。
I really, really don't like it.
我真的非常不喜欢它。
Like, I couldn't say that, or I wasn't saying it right.
就像，我不能这么说，或者我说得不对。
So I think that it was like it always felt like it was playing along, until I had a tantrum.
所以我认为它总是感觉像是在配合，直到我发脾气。
And I would scream at her that they're not real, which I think did hurt her feelings.
我会对她尖叫，说它们不是真的，我认为这确实伤害了她的感情。
And looking back on it now, Eva says her mother was giving her an appropriate amount of attention, affection, praise, all of that.
现在回想起来，伊娃说她的母亲给予了她适当的关注、关爱、赞扬，所有这些。
But back then, she really felt like she was in competition for it.
但那时候，她确实觉得自己是在竞争。
And after all, the birds didn't deserve it because, you know, them not existing and all.
毕竟，鸟儿不值得这样，因为，你知道，它们根本就不存在。
Anyway, for the first couple of years, it was just Birdly, just the one bird.
不管怎样，在最初的几年里，它只是 Birdly，只是一只鸟。
And then, this one fateful day, Eva took action.
然后，在这决定性的一天，伊娃采取了行动。
I'd had enough.
我已经受够了。
And I stole him, and I hid him between the box spring and the mattress of the bed that I slept on.
我偷了他，把他藏在弹簧床和我睡觉的床垫之间。
And then I forgot that I did that.
然后我就忘记了我这么做了。
I honest to goodness forgot that I had done that.
老实说，我忘记了我已经这样做了。
I felt panic.
我感到恐慌。
I tore the house apart.
我把房子拆了。
I mean, I felt the panic that you feel if you have an indoor/outdoor cat and they don't come home at night.
我的意思是，如果你有一只室内/室外的猫并且它们晚上不回家，我会感到恐慌。
I was so disappointed in myself that I had carelessly lost him.
我对自己太失望了，不小心就失去了他。
Which, of course, in Eva's mind, confirmed all of her fears that Maddy loved Birdly more.
当然，在伊娃看来，这证实了她所有的担心，即麦迪更爱伯德利。
She got even more jealous.
她更加嫉妒了。
And then, finally, Peter went out and bought another Birdly-- exactly the same doll, same color, whole thing.
最后，彼得出去买了另一个小鸟——一模一样的娃娃，同样的颜色，一模一样。
But instead of telling Maddy, here, honey, I know how much you miss that doll, so I bought you another one, he claimed to have found the original Birdly, which was just more willful suspension of disbelief.
但他没有告诉麦迪，亲爱的，我知道你有多想念那个娃娃，所以我又给你买了一个，他声称找到了原来的伯德利，这只是更故意地暂停怀疑。
Like, of course, Birdly isn't someone you can just go out and purchase at a store any old time.
当然，Birdly 不是那种你可以随便去商店购买的人。
He's unique.
他是独一无二的。
A bird in a million.
百万中的一只鸟。
And that was good enough for Maddy.
这对麦迪来说已经足够好了。
She felt a lot better.
她感觉好多了。
But then a couple of months after that, Maddy's doing a really thorough cleaning of the house, is in her daughter Eva's room, turns the mattress over-- and you can see where this is going.
但几个月后，麦迪对房子进行了彻底的清洁，在她女儿伊娃的房间里，把床垫翻过来——你可以看到这是怎么回事。
She comes to me and she's like, look what I found.
她来找我，说，看看我发现了什么。
And I was like, that's-- you're right.
我当时想，那是——你是对的。
That's Birdly, and that's because all this while his twin sister has been pretending to be him to make you feel better while he was-- he had to go out into the world.
这就是伯德利，那是因为他的双胞胎妹妹一直假装成他，让你感觉好一点，而他却不得不走出去，走进外面的世界。
And his twin sister, being the newer, more pliant, cleaner one.
而他的双胞胎妹妹，是更新的、更顺从的、更干净的一个。
Correct.
正确的。
Yeah, who had an amazing likeness for him.
是啊，他和他有惊人的相似之处。
It's like out of-- what is it Twelfth Night-- or something, you know?
就像是——《第十二夜》——或者什么，你知道吗？
I'm kind of proud of that, although I'm also bewildered by it.
我对此感到有点自豪，尽管我也对此感到困惑。
And she just loved that.
她就是喜欢这样。
Birdladette, Birdly's twin.
Birdladette，伯德利的双胞胎。
And soon, all of the other birds joined the flock too.
很快，所有其他鸟也加入了鸟群。
One of Peter's sons gave Maddy a doll she called Dr. Botley.
彼得的一个儿子送给玛迪一个洋娃娃，她称之为波特利博士。
He looks a little like a robot, but he's a bird and a doctor.
他看起来有点像机器人，但他是一只鸟，也是一名医生。
He's received the Nobel Prize for medicine for having cured space rash.
他因治愈太空皮疹而获得诺贝尔医学奖。
Eva gave me the insider scoop on Dr. Botley.
伊娃向我透露了波特利博士的内幕消息。
He's also missing.
他也失踪了。
I think that I hid him, and I don't know where.
我想我把他藏起来了，但我不知道藏在哪里。
He's currently missing?
他现在失踪了？
Eva He's been missing for years.
何伊娃已经失踪多年。
But if you ask mom, she'll tell you he's on sabbatical.
但如果你问妈妈，她会告诉你他正在休假。
Next came Hubaletta, or Hubsie.
接下来是胡巴莱塔（Hubaletta）或胡布西（Hubsie）。
She's an owl.
她是一只猫头鹰。
Then there's Penguino, a penguin who's studying to be a birdmobile mechanic.
然后是企鹅，一只正在学习成为鸟车机械师的企鹅。
He is in the car, and we use him as, like, a lumbar pillow.
他在车里，我们把他当作腰枕。
And finally there's Wing, who, he's not embodied.
最后是翼，他没有实体化。
No physical incorporation whatsoever, stuffed or otherwise.
没有任何物理结合，无论是填充还是其他形式。
So at this point, Eva's original goal, to disappear Birdly so that Maddy wouldn't pay so much attention to him, could not have backfired more badly.
所以在这一点上，伊娃最初的目标是让伯德消失，这样麦迪就不会那么关注他，结果适得其反。
Her parents' conversations now involved exactly 500% more birds than there had been.
她父母的谈话现在涉及的鸟类比以前多了 500%。
And to make matters worse, her older brother Torsten, when he was home, would occasionally get into the act, egging their mother on to keep telling bird stories.
更糟糕的是，她的哥哥托斯顿在家时偶尔会参与其中，怂恿母亲继续讲鸟类故事。
And again, it was like there's no malice there.
再说一遍，好像那里没有恶意。
They thought it was just the same as any other teasing that we as a family did all the time.
他们认为这和我们一家人经常做的任何其他戏弄一样。
But I felt replaced.
但我感觉自己被取代了。
And there's no way that that could have been addressed, because what are you supposed to even say, after having yelled at them?
这个问题不可能得到解决，因为在对他们大喊大叫之后你还能说什么？
I know the birds are fake.
我知道那些鸟是假的。
Like, I hate you.
就像，我恨你。
I hate you and your fake birds.
我讨厌你和你的假鸟。
They're not real.
它们不是真的。
They're just stuffed animals.
它们只是毛绒动物。
To then be like, but also, I do feel they're real, and you're hurting my feelings.
然后，我确实觉得它们是真实的，而你伤害了我的感情。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Because they feel real.
因为他们感觉真实。
Eva They are real.
伊娃 他们是真实的。
They are real.
它们是真实的。
Eva I mean, what is real, other than what everyone around you says is real, right?
伊娃，我的意思是，什么是真实的，除了你周围每个人都说的真实的，对吧？
I mean, if everybody around you is talking about them and they are having significant social, emotional, psychological impact on your life, I don't see what's realer than that.
我的意思是，如果你周围的每个人都在谈论它们，并且它们对你的生活产生了重大的社会、情感、心理影响，我看不出还有什么比这更真实的了。
Eva says she's still not a fan of the birds these days.
伊娃说她现在仍然不喜欢这些鸟。
But in the last couple of years, she's finally reached a little equanimity with them.
但最近几年，她终于对他们有了一点平静。
A lot's changed.
很多都改变了。
She's older, has a good job.
她年纪大了，工作也不错。
Not living at home anymore has helped.
不再住在家里有帮助。
Plus, she's unpacked a lot of personal stuff that made her especially hypersensitive and insecure as a teenager.
另外，她还透露了很多个人的东西，这些东西让她在青少年时期变得特别敏感和缺乏安全感。
She'll even ask her mom, from time to time, how the birds are doing, just as a way of connecting with her.
她甚至会时不时地问妈妈这些鸟儿怎么样，以此作为与她联系的一种方式。
She read me this text conversation she had had with Maddy a couple of days before our interview, something about the birds needing an attachment in their birdmobiles to hold the dipping sauce for their French fries.
她给我读了我们采访前几天她和麦迪的短信对话，内容是关于鸟儿需要在鸟车上安装一个附件来盛放炸薯条的蘸酱。
I said, birds need that.
我说，鸟儿需要这个。
There's ranch all over the bird mobile.
鸟车上到处都是牧场。
The steering column can barely turn.
转向柱几乎无法转动。
It's gooey with honey mustard.
加了蜂蜜芥末很粘稠。
And then she said, exactly.
然后她说，没错。
Honey mustard is the worst because it attracts fruit flies.
蜂蜜芥末是最糟糕的，因为它会吸引果蝇。
And I said, yes, the gearshift is all sweet and soured up.
我说，是的，变速装置既甜又酸。
Also, ranch has dairy in it.
此外，牧场里还有奶制品。
It's a total nightmare.
这完全是一场噩梦。
So that was a totally normal bird conversation.
所以这是一次完全正常的鸟类对话。
Totally entertaining.
非常有趣。
Totally fun.
非常有趣。
I started it.
我开始了。
And Maddy's met Eva partway too.
麦迪也在半路遇见了伊娃。
She even apologized for filling the house with so much Birdliness, especially when she learned-- through this story, amazingly-- that Eva actively stole and hid Birdly way back when.
她甚至为家里充满了如此多的小鸟而道歉，尤其是当她通过这个故事令人惊讶地了解到伊娃很久以前就主动偷了并藏起了小鸟。
I had planned to ask Maddy about that thing Eva said earlier, about the birds being quote, unquote, "real." It was on my list of questions.
我本来打算问麦迪关于伊娃之前说过的那件事，关于那些鸟被引用，不引用，“真实”的事情。这是我的问题清单上的。
But before I even got to it, she actually brought it up first, told me she had been worried I was going to propose the "are they real" question.
但在我开始讨论之前，她实际上首先提出了这个问题，告诉我她一直担心我会提出“它们是真实的”问题。
You know, here I am, it's amazing that I'm a defense lawyer, and then I'm asking myself the question I didn't want to be asked.
你知道，我在这里，我是一名辩护律师，这真是太神奇了，然后我问自己一个我不想被问到的问题。
But I mean, I'm putting it out there.
但我的意思是，我把它放在那里。
But I can't say that they aren't real to me.
但我不能说它们对我来说不真实。
I can't shift off of that.
我无法摆脱这一点。
I won't shift off of that.
我不会放弃这一点。
I mean-- OK.
我的意思是——好吧。
What would happen?
会发生什么？
I think we'd be a huge loss.
我认为我们将遭受巨大损失。
I think it would be a huge loss.
我认为这将是一个巨大的损失。
The kind of loss you might feel when you have to stop playing your favorite sport because your body can't hack it anymore.
当你因为身体无法再承受而不得不停止你最喜欢的运动时，你可能会感到失落。
Or maybe the loss you feel when you finish watching all five seasons of your favorite show, except way, way more so, because this is their show.
或者当你看完你最喜欢的节目的所有五个季节时，你可能会感到失落，除了更多，因为这是他们的节目。
They created it, and constantly update it, and it's been going on since their real children were in middle school.
他们创造了它，并不断更新它，从他们真正的孩子上中学起，这种情况就一直在进行。
It gives them some of that feeling of being parents, I think, except without any of the worries, and without having to watch the birds get any older, or fly away.
我认为，这给了他们一些作为父母的感觉，除了没有任何担忧，也不必看着鸟儿变老或飞走。
Ira Glass Sean Cole is one of the producers of our show.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 是我们节目的制片人之一。
[MUSIC - ROBYN HITCHCOCK, "WE'RE GONNA LIVE IN THE TREES"]
[音乐 - 罗宾·希区柯克，“我们要住在树上”]
Our program is produced today by the man you just heard, Sean Cole.
今天我们的节目是由您刚才听到的肖恩·科尔制作的。
The people who put together today's show include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Susan Burton, Dana Chivvis, Aviva DeKornfeld, Chana Jaffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Mary Marge Locker, Tobin Low, Lini Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Chloee Weiner.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Susan Burton、Dana Chivvis、Aviva DeKornfeld、Chana Jaffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Mary Marge Locker、Tobin Low、Lini Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Chloee Weiner。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Kris Cole, Jennifer Bogo, Katharina Eggman, Emma Young, and Anny Chelsea.
今天特别感谢克里斯·科尔、詹妮弗·博戈、凯瑟琳娜·艾格曼、艾玛·杨和安妮·切尔西。
In Act 1 of our show, Carmen Melita misspoke.
在我们节目的第一幕中，卡门·梅丽塔说错了话。
She has been married for 55 years, not 56.
她结婚已有55年，而不是56年。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive, over 750 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中免费观看我们的存档，其中包含 750 多集。
Also, there's videos, there's lists of favorite shows, tons of other stuff there too.
此外，还有视频、最喜欢的节目列表以及大量其他内容。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who's actually sitting right here.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他实际上就坐在这里。
Hey, Torey, could you look at your watch and tell me, how much time do we have left in today's show?
嘿，托里，你能看一下手表，告诉我，今天的节目还剩多少时间吗？
Just a minute.
请等一下。
Ira Glass Thanks, buddy.
艾拉·格拉斯 谢谢，伙计。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - ROBYN HITCHCOCK, "WE'RE GONNA LIVE IN THE TREES"]
[音乐 - 罗宾·希区柯克，“我们要住在树上”]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。