753: What We’ve Got Here is Failure to Communicate - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #753 | November 12, 2021 753: What We’ve Got Here is Failure to Communicate Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 753 集 | 2021 年 11 月 12 日 753：我们遇到的是沟通失败 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Sullivan High School in Chicago is a school where communication isn't the easiest in normal times.
序言： 序言 芝加哥的艾拉·格拉斯·苏利文高中是一所平日里沟通并不容易的学校。
Kids constantly have to pass their phones back and forth with Google Translate so they can understand each other.
孩子们经常需要使用谷歌翻译来来回回地传递手机，这样他们才能互相理解。
Over half the kids are immigrants or refugees.
超过一半的孩子是移民或难民。
They come from close to 40 different countries.
他们来自近 40 个不同的国家。
They speak over 35 different languages.
他们讲超过 35 种不同的语言。
That's Elly Fishman, a reporter who spent over three years there and wrote a book about the school called Refugee High.
那是埃莉·菲什曼 (Elly Fishman)，一名记者，她在那里呆了三年多，并写了一本关于这所学校的书，名为《难民高中》。
She returned there with one of our producers at the beginning of this school year and was there on the second day of school.
她在本学年开始时与我们的一位制片人一起回到了那里，并在开学第二天就到了那里。
Kids are really nervous.
孩子们真的很紧张。
They're not native English speakers.
他们的母语不是英语。
They don't know each other yet.
他们还不认识。
So they're sitting among a bunch of strangers at this point.
所以他们现在坐在一群陌生人中间。
So there's a lot of anxiety and nerves.
所以有很多焦虑和紧张。
Sullivan High School is organized to make them feel at home.
沙利文高中的组织方式让他们有宾至如归的感觉。
Each step at the staircase by the main entrance says welcome in a different language, private spaces for Muslim students to pray, shelves full of winter coats and backpacks for students who arrive with none, special curriculum and services tailored to them.
主入口楼梯上的每一步都用不同的语言表达着欢迎，为穆斯林学生祈祷的私人空间，为没有带冬衣和背包的学生准备的架子，为他们量身定制的特殊课程和服务。
This year, though, was the first time students were back in person since the pandemic, which posed some special challenges.
不过，今年是自疫情爆发以来学生们第一次亲自返校，这带来了一些特殊的挑战。
Like, for instance, English teacher Annmarie Handley was going around the room student by student doing one of the most pedestrian beginning of school tasks-- filling out the seating chart with the basics.
举例来说，英语老师安玛丽·汉德利（Annmarie Handley）在教室里一个个学生中走来走去，做着最乏味的开学任务之一——用基础知识填写座位表。
What country are they from?
他们来自哪个国家？
What do they speak besides English?
他们除了英语还讲什么？
I speak Arabic.
我说阿拉伯语。
Annmarie Handley What languages do you speak, sir?
安玛丽·汉德利 您会说什么语言，先生？
OK.
好的。
Now, you heard that student perfectly, because our producer was standing right next to him with a microphone just inches from his face.
现在，你可以完美地听到那个学生的声音，因为我们的制片人就站在他旁边，麦克风距离他的脸只有几英寸。
But that long pause, the fact that Ms. Handley asked him the question a second time, that's going to make a lot more sense if I just play you the sound from the microphone that was pinned to Ms. Handley's lapel.
但是那个长时间的停顿，事实上汉德利女士第二次问了他这个问题，如果我向你播放固定在汉德利女士翻领上的麦克风的声音，那就更有意义了。
This is how she heard that interaction, more or less.
这或多或少就是她听到这种互动的方式。
Abdal?
阿卜杜勒？
What languages do you speak?
你说什么语言？
What languages do you speak, sir?
先生，您会说什么语言？
Yeah.
是的。
She didn't hear him at all.
她根本没听见他的话。
Because she's way up at the front of the room stuck there typing into a computer.
因为她正站在房间最前面的电脑上打字。
And there's an air purifier that they put in for COVID humming towards the back of the room.
他们在房间后面安装了一个空气净化器，以防止新冠病毒的嗡嗡声。
And there's an air conditioner running that's in the window just to her right.
她右边的窗户里有一台空调正在运行。
And most important, everybody is in a mask, muffling the students' voices, and making it so she cannot see anybody's mouth move.
最重要的是，每个人都戴着口罩，学生们的声音被遮住了，这样她就看不到任何人的嘴巴在动。
Now, you can see how much I normally read lips.
现在，你可以看到我通常会读唇语了多少。
She continues her questions.
她继续她的问题。
Annmarie Handley And what country were you born in?
安玛丽·汉德利 您出生在哪个国家？
Egypt.
埃及。
Annmarie Handley Asia?
安玛丽·汉德利亚洲？
What part of Asia?
亚洲的哪个部分？
No, Egypt.
不，埃及。
Annmarie Handley Egypt.
安玛丽·汉德利 埃及。
Cool.
凉爽的。
So she keeps going around the room.
所以她一直在房间里走来走去。
And this keeps happening.
这种情况一直在发生。
It seemed to me, having spent a couple of years in the school before COVID, that it was just exponentially harder.
在我看来，在新冠疫情爆发之前，我已经在学校呆了几年了，这让我的生活变得更加困难。
And there was so much more miscommunication.
还有更多的沟通不畅。
All right.
好的。
And then we have Claude.
然后我们有克劳德。
What languages do you speak?
你说什么语言？
What say?
说什么？
Annmarie Handley What languages do you speak?
安玛丽·汉德利 您会说什么语言？
Kinyarwanda.
基尼亚卢旺达语。
Kinyarwanda.
基尼亚卢旺达语。
Annmarie Handley And what country were you born in?
安玛丽·汉德利 您出生在哪个国家？
I said Congo.
我说刚果。
Annmarie Handley One more, table.
安玛丽·汉德利 再来一张，桌子。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Annmarie Handley Oh my gosh.
安玛丽·汉德利 天哪。
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
I thought you said Rwanda.
我以为你说的是卢旺达。
I will fix it.
我会修复它。
It's painful to listen to-- hearing these students give the teacher exactly what she's asking for.
听到这些学生准确地满足老师的要求是很痛苦的。
And she can't tell.
她也说不出来。
Everybody is trying to connect.
每个人都在尝试连接。
And they are not connecting.
而且他们没有连接。
In the recording, you can hear Ms. Handley try to manage this awkwardness, save the students from the embarrassment, turn it all on herself.
在录音中，你可以听到汉德利女士试图控制这种尴尬，让学生们免于尴尬，把这一切都转向自己。
Sorry.
对不起。
It's the air conditioner.
这是空调。
It's not you guys.
不是你们这些人。
Your English is good.
你的英语很好。
It's just this is right in my ear.
只是这话就在我耳边。
And it's killing me.
这简直要了我的命。
When I reached Ms. Handley, she said, it is a lot harder to conduct this class without being able to see the kids' mouths.
当我找到汉德利女士时，她说，如果看不到孩子们的嘴，上这堂课要困难得多。
But for her, it really just feels like one more thing to deal with.
但对她来说，这确实感觉像是又一件事情需要处理。
I think I worry more that the kid is getting frustrated, because especially at the beginning of the year, I need them to know that I'm listening and they can trust me.
我想我更担心孩子会感到沮丧，因为尤其是在年初，我需要他们知道我在倾听并且他们可以信任我。
And I don't want them to feel as though I'm not listening or I don't care.
我不想让他们觉得我没有在听或者我不在乎。
Ira Glass She says in the months since then, it's gotten a lot easier to communicate.
Ira Glass 她说，从那以后的几个月里，沟通变得容易多了。
The air conditioning is off.
空调已关闭。
And more important, everybody is more comfortable with each other and with her, which means they're more comfortable speaking up, projecting, making themselves heard through the mask.
更重要的是，每个人彼此之间以及与她在一起都更加自在，这意味着他们更愿意畅所欲言、表达自己、透过面具让别人听到自己的声音。
Communication is delicate.
沟通是微妙的。
And if you don't get it right, it could be disastrous.
如果你做得不对，那可能会是灾难性的。
They got through it here in Ms. Handley's class.
他们在汉德利女士的课堂上完成了这一切。
But in our other stories today, it does not go so well.
但在我们今天的其他故事中，情况就不那么顺利了。
Like in one story, the future of democracy is at stake.
就像一个故事一样，民主的未来岌岌可危。
In another, a mom tries to say something important to her own daughter so ineffectively.
在另一则视频中，一位母亲试图对自己的女儿说一些重要的话，但效果却很差。
Also, Amelia Bedelia-- remember her-- who hears, but never understands.
还有，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚——记住她——听到了，但从不理解。
Where is she today?
她今天在哪儿？
Here.
这里。
From WBEZ Chicago, this is This American Life.
来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Until The Cows Come Home.
第一幕，直到奶牛回家。
So this first story is about a man trying to communicate a thing, a very particular thing-- that the 2020 election in the state of Michigan was not stolen, that Joe Biden won.
所以第一个故事是关于一个人试图传达一件事，一件非常特别的事情——密歇根州的 2020 年选举没有被窃取，乔·拜登获胜了。
This is not an outcome this man is particularly happy about.
这并不是这个男人特别高兴的结果。
He's a Republican, a state senator.
他是共和党人，州参议员。
But he says, this is the truth.
但他说，这是事实。
The man's name is Ed McBroom.
这个人的名字叫艾德·麦克布鲁姆。
He chaired the official state committee that looked into all the claims of election fraud in Michigan.
他担任官方州委员会主席，负责调查密歇根州所有有关选举舞弊的指控。
In the end, they wrote a report concluding that there was, quote, "no evidence of widespread or systematic fraud."
最后，他们写了一份报告，结论是“没有证据表明存在广泛或系统性的欺诈行为”。
Lots of his fellow Republicans do not accept this conclusion.
他的许多共和党同僚并不接受这个结论。
And they are not shy about telling him that when they run into him.
当他们遇到他时，他们并不羞于告诉他这一点。
So Ed has been on a kind of personal campaign to talk to anybody who doubts him, as long as they want, in the hopes of being able to give them the facts they need to reach the same conclusion that he did.
因此，埃德一直在开展一场个人活动，与任何怀疑他的人交谈，只要他们愿意，希望能够向他们提供所需的事实，以得出与他相同的结论。
Our senior editor David Kestenbaum wondered if he was persuading anybody, and a few months ago went up to spend a day with Ed at the Upper Peninsula State Fair.
我们的高级编辑大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆（David Kestenbaum）想知道他是否在说服任何人，几个月前，他和埃德一起去上半岛州博览会度过了一天。
Ed promised, from out in the open for five minutes with my cows, somebody will come up and talk about the election.
埃德承诺，在户外与我的奶牛一起呆五分钟，就会有人上来谈论选举。
Here's David.
这是大卫。
I met Ed in the dairy barn at the state fair with his cows and his kids.
我在州博览会的奶牛棚里遇见了埃德，他和他的奶牛和孩子们在一起。
That's kind of how he's known, the state senator with the cows and kids.
这就是他的出名方式：带着牛和孩子的州参议员。
These are the kids, not the cows.
这些是孩子，不是牛。
There are more.
还有更多。
Brita, Royal, Odell, Oriana, Kenny-Jack, Edith, Magnus, and Sayla.
布丽塔、罗亚尔、奥德尔、奥丽安娜、肯尼-杰克、伊迪丝、马格努斯和赛拉。
So there's 13 of them.
所以一共有 13 个。
You want to say a word about what that life is like?
你想谈谈那种生活吗？
If you had to pick one word.
如果一定要选一个词的话。
One word-- I think I'm going to say blessed, I guess.
一个词——我想我会说“有福”，我想。
Blessed or hard-- blessed or hard.
祝福或艰难——祝福或艰难。
Five of the kids are Ed's.
其中五个孩子是艾德的。
The other eight were his brother's, who died three years ago and lived next door.
另外八个是他哥哥的，他三年前去世了，住在隔壁。
So the families were always kind of one unit.
所以家庭总是一个整体。
There's one photo I saw on Ed's Facebook page of a kid who had put together some delightfully crazy outfit.
我在 Ed 的 Facebook 页面上看到了一张照片，照片上一个孩子组装了一些令人愉快的疯狂服装。
But the thing that stood out to me was the stuff in the background of the photo, total chaos in the kitchen behind her.
但对我来说最引人注目的是照片背景中的东西，她身后的厨房一片混乱。
Ed's a farmer, a parent, and a state senator.
艾德是一名农民、一名家长和一名州参议员。
He says sometimes, it's a bit much to handle.
他说，有时候，处理起来有点困难。
I was interested in Ed, because honestly, it's alarming to me all the people who still believe the election was stolen.
我对埃德很感兴趣，因为说实话，所有仍然相信选举被盗的人让我感到震惊。
In one poll, a third of Americans and most Republicans.
在一项民意调查中，三分之一的美国人和大多数共和党人表示支持。
It's bad enough that we as a country seem completely divided on everything-- the climate, vaccines, immigration.
作为一个国家，我们在气候、疫苗、移民等所有问题上似乎都存在完全分歧，这已经够糟糕的了。
But somehow, this idea that so many people look at the official election results certified by the states-- the method we have for settling all these disputes-- and say, that's a lie.
但不知何故，很多人看到了各州认证的官方选举结果——我们解决所有这些争端的方法——并说这是一个谎言。
That feels particularly unsettling.
这让人感觉特别不安。
And so here was Ed, this guy in the trenches, arguing for the facts in a way that few people are.
埃德，这个在战壕里的人，以很少有人能做到的方式为事实辩护。
I wanted to see how that was going and what the conversations were like.
我想看看事情进展如何以及对话是什么样的。
Ed ventures out of the dairy barn, where his cows are, past the fair games and the rides, to this indoor area where various vendors are set up, and where the Republican Party has a table.
埃德冒险走出奶牛所在的奶牛场，经过公平比赛和游乐设施，来到这个室内区域，那里摆着各种摊贩，共和党也在那里摆了一张桌子。
Hello, ma'am.
你好，女士。
Hi.
你好。
Donna Hi.
唐娜嗨。
I was at Cityfest last week--
上周我参加了城市节——
Oh.
哦。
David Kestenbaum People stop by who know him to catch up.
David Kestenbaum 认识他的人都会过来跟他聊聊。
A woman from the Gideon's Bible table across the way, comes over to say that they've been praying for him.
对面基甸圣经桌的一位女士走过来说，他们一直在为他祈祷。
And then this man and a woman come over.
然后这个男人和一个女人走了过来。
The first thing she says is, why aren't you having a full forensic audit?
她说的第一句话是，你们为什么不进行全面的法证审计？
Forensic audit is the battle cry for people who want some external group to look at the ballots and everything, which for the record, have already been through a state-led, bipartisan audit in Michigan.
对于那些希望外部团体查看选票和一切的人来说，法证审计是他们的战斗口号，据记录，这些已经在密歇根州通过了州主导的两党审计。
So why aren't you having a full forensic audit?
那么，为什么不进行全面的法证审计呢？
You need one, badly.
你非常需要一个。
Those two vans that went in the FTC center in the middle of the night with nobody watching except the cameras-- and I saw it on Gateway Pundit.
这两辆货车在半夜驶入联邦贸易委员会中心，除了摄像机之外没有人在监视——我在 Gateway Pundit 上看到了这一点。
I know they went in there.
我知道他们进去了。
And the little black car phone--
还有那个黑色的小汽车电话——
Well, nobody's denying that the vans came.
好吧，没有人否认货车来了。
It's just that we know what was in them--
只是我们知道它们里面有什么——
You do not know-- Ed McBroom Well, sure we do.
你不知道——埃德·麦克布鲁姆 好吧，我们当然知道。
Did you see every ballot that was in there and see that it was folded, if it was mail-in?
如果是邮寄的话，您是否看到了里面的每张选票并看到它被折叠起来？
Did you see that it was signed?
你看到上面有签名了吗？
So listen-- Dan Did you check any of this?
听着——丹，你检查过这些吗？
So listen to the explanation, though.
所以还是听听解释吧。
I mean, because--
我的意思是，因为——
Ed's approach to these conversations is to answer whatever questions people have in detail, however long it takes, which is premised on an idea that I hope is true, but I kind of fear isn't.
埃德处理这些对话的方法是详细回答人们提出的任何问题，无论需要多长时间，这是基于一个我希望是真实的想法的前提，但我有点担心不是。
Basically, if you calmly present people with facts, they'll consider them.
基本上，如果你冷静地向人们提供事实，他们就会考虑。
The thing the man is asking Ed about is something that got a lot of attention online, a video of a van arriving at the convention center in Detroit after 3:00 in the morning with a bunch of ballots.
该男子向埃德询问的事情在网上引起了广泛关注，一段视频显示一辆货车在凌晨 3:00 后带着一堆选票抵达底特律会议中心。
Seemed suspicious to them.
对他们来说似乎很可疑。
Ed lays out what his committee found.
埃德列出了他的委员会的发现。
Those were ballots that had been placed in drop boxes, which he points out he's not a fan of drop boxes.
这些选票被放入投递箱，他指出他不喜欢投递箱。
But he says he looked into it.
但他说他对此进行了调查。
And the ballots were just going through the normal procedure, though the van didn't have any particular security.
选票只是按照正常程序进行，尽管货车没有任何特殊的安全措施。
So then the question to me is well, could somebody have done something to those ballots on the way there?
那么对我来说，问题是，是否有人在途中对这些选票做了什么？
Could the driver have been in on it?
难道司机也参与其中？
Switched to a different van with fraudulent ballots?
换了另一辆带有欺诈选票的货车？
It would have been super hard, he tells them.
他告诉他们，这会非常困难。
The ballots would have to have been prepared in advance.
选票必须提前准备好。
The identifying numbers on the ballots and the addresses on them would have to match up with real voters who hadn't voted elsewhere.
选票上的识别号码和地址必须与未在其他地方投票的真实选民相匹配。
And so that's a lot of crazy rigmarole.
这就是很多疯狂的废话。
And in the end, what are they going to gain when they know that in Detroit, these absentee ballots are going to run 95% for Joe Biden?
最后，当他们知道在底特律，这些缺席选票将为乔·拜登赢得 95% 的选票时，他们会得到什么？
Oh, absentee.
噢，缺席者。
Ed McBroom They tend to run very high for the Democrat side.
埃德·麦克布鲁姆 他们对民主党的支持率往往很高。
Trump did better than any Republican for 70 years.
特朗普的表现比 70 年来任何一位共和党人都好。
And so--
所以——
Trump won Michigan, the guy said there.
特朗普赢得了密歇根州，那家伙在那里说。
Ed told me in the days after the election, he started out with the same questions these two people have.
埃德告诉我，在选举后的几天里，他一开始就提出了这两个人同样的问题。
There were lots of calls into his office after the election.
选举后，他的办公室接到了很多电话。
And it wasn't like he automatically assumed there was fraud.
他并不自动认为存在欺诈行为。
But there was stuff he definitely felt deserved looking into.
但他确实觉得有些东西值得研究。
Why am I seeing these news reports of chaos at a polling place?
为什么我会看到这些关于投票站混乱的新闻报道？
Why am I hearing about late night deliveries?
为什么我会听说深夜送货？
Why did one county here flip so dramatically from one candidate to the other?
为什么这里的一个县会如此戏剧性地从一位候选人转向另一位候选人？
Why are there rumors of overseas--
为何海外有传言——
It was a long list.
这是一个很长的清单。
Ed thought, well, I can try to figure this stuff out.
艾德想，好吧，我可以尝试解决这个问题。
He heads the Michigan Senate Oversight committee.
他领导密歇根州参议院监督委员会。
So he started an investigation.
于是他开始了调查。
Anyone who had anything to say could testify.
任何有话要说的人都可以作证。
The hearings went on for months.
听证会持续了几个月。
And Ed got way into the details.
埃德深入了解了细节。
What if someone was given a Sharpie to mark their ballot and it bled through?
如果有人拿到记号笔来标记选票，但选票却流血了怎么办？
How does the election management software work?
选举管理软件如何运作？
What happens if someone runs a bunch of ballots through the counter twice?
如果有人将一堆选票在柜台上运行两次会发生什么？
That took time for me to learn.
这需要我时间来学习。
And then I had to verify that what I learned was accurate, because you don't want to just take one source as authoritative.
然后我必须验证我所学到的内容是否准确，因为你不想只将一个来源视为权威。
I wanted to check others.
我想检查一下其他人。
It took way longer than he'd thought.
这比他想象的要长得多。
He'd run down one theory.
他推翻了一种理论。
But then someone would say, well, what if it happened this way?
但有人会说，好吧，如果事情这样发生怎么办？
So he'd look into that.
所以他会调查一下。
As the original ideas started to fall to the wayside, I did begin to grow less and less suspicious that I was going to find anything that was going to overturn the results of the election.
随着最初的想法开始被抛在一边，我确实开始越来越怀疑自己会发现任何能够推翻选举结果的东西。
How much time did you spend looking into it do you think, all told?
您认为您花了多少时间来研究它？
Oh, I don't know.
哦，我不知道。
It was hundreds of hours.
那是数百个小时。
Ed put together a 35-page report with a 20-page appendix.
Ed 整理了一份 35 页的报告和 20 页的附录。
He lays out each of the theories and really why they can't be true.
他列出了每一种理论，以及它们为何不成立的真正原因。
When the report came out, both Trump and Obama tweeted about it.
该报告发布后，特朗普和奥巴马都发布了推文。
Actually, Trump issued a statement, since he'd been banned from Twitter.
事实上，特朗普在被禁止使用推特后发表了一份声明。
Ed says he doesn't imagine either of the former presidents actually read it.
埃德说，他认为两位前总统都不会真正读过这本书。
Dan and Donna, that's their names, did not seem like they had read it.
丹和唐娜，这是他们的名字，他们似乎没有读过。
What I want to tell you is that I know you have children.
我想告诉你的是，我知道你有孩子。
We have seven children.
我们有七个孩子。
We have 17 grandchildren.
我们有 17 个孙子。
And if we don't straighten this out now in 2021-- I don't like Biden.
如果我们现在不在 2021 年解决这个问题——我不喜欢拜登。
I like Trump.
我喜欢特朗普。
But that has nothing to do with it at all-- our children will never have a free election, if this communism, socialism crap--
但这与此完全无关——我们的孩子永远不会有自由选举，如果共产主义、社会主义是废话——
And he should be one-- Ed McBroom That's the question you started with.
他应该是其中之一—— Ed McBroom 这就是你一开始提出的问题。
So for one thing, the state has done two audits.
一方面，国家进行了两次审计。
Not thorough forensic ones like Arizona did.
不像亚利桑那那样彻底的法医。
So I'll tell you-- David Kestenbaum Again, Ed goes into all the details.
所以我会告诉你 - David Kestenbaum 埃德再次详细介绍了所有细节。
The state had already done a thorough audit, where they recounted a sample of paper ballots by hand from all over the state.
该州已经进行了彻底的审计，他们重新统计了来自全州各地的纸质选票样本。
When we go and recount these precincts by hand, we don't find a single one of them to be out of line.
当我们亲手重新计算这些区域时，我们没有发现其中任何一个是不相符的。
Not one of them is out of line.
他们没有一个是出格的。
And we did this audit--
我们做了这次审计——
So both-- Ed McBroom Actually, a much more substantive audit than just that, because in that audit process, they don't just hand recount the ballots.
所以，埃德·麦克布鲁姆（Ed McBroom）实际上，比这更实质性的审计，因为在审计过程中，他们不只是手工重新计票。
But they're also checking the signatures.
但他们也在检查签名。
They're checking the applications.
他们正在检查申请。
They're checking the paperwork for the testing.
他们正在检查测试的文件。
They're checking the test decks that go in.
他们正在检查进入的测试平台。
Who is doing the checking?
谁在进行检查？
Ed McBroom So the clerk's office.
艾德·麦克布鲁姆：所以是文员办公室。
And are they all Democrats?
他们都是民主党人吗？
Ed McBroom No. All over the state.
艾德·麦克布鲁姆 没有。整个州都是这样。
You have more Republican clerks than you have Democrat clerks all over the state.
全州共和党职员的数量比民主党职员的数量还要多。
And most of the counties have multiple parties.
大多数县都有多个政党。
So you have your county clerk within your townships.
所以你的乡镇里有县书记员。
You'll have Democrats and Republicans.
你将有民主党和共和党。
And so these people are all looking at each other.
所以这些人都面面相觑。
He doesn't seem to be making much headway.
他似乎没有取得太大进展。
The problem Ed runs into all the time is that he'll carefully build this wall out of blocks of facts.
埃德经常遇到的问题是，他会用大量的事实小心地建造这堵墙。
But the person he's talking to will just pivot to another claim, which is exactly what happens next.
但与他交谈的人只会转向另一个主张，这正是接下来发生的事情。
I'm just wondering what was wrong with doing a full audit?
我只是想知道进行全面审核有什么问题吗？
I mean, of the machines too.
我的意思是，机器也是如此。
Ed McBroom Right.
艾德·麦克布鲁姆 对。
And did they change the batteries in the machines?
他们更换了机器中的电池吗？
So the machines that they changed the battery in--
所以他们更换电池的机器——
The idea here is that the batteries had been changed in some of the voting machines, causing them to erase data.
这里的想法是，一些投票机的电池已被更换，导致它们删除数据。
Ed tells them, the machines with the batteries in them were just machines that marked ballots for people with disabilities, not ballot counting machines.
埃德告诉他们，装有电池的机器只是为残疾人标记选票的机器，而不是计票机。
You sound so calm in a lot of this.
在很多事情上你听起来都很平静。
Are you feeling calm?
你感觉平静吗？
You've said these sentences so many times.
这些话你已经说过很多次了。
Is there some part of you that is tired of it?
你的某个部分对此感到厌倦了吗？
There's a bit of a exhaustion, I suppose.
我想，是有点累了。
But no. I mean, I feel very-- I don't know if it's compassionate or just passionate about helping people find the truth.
但没有。我的意思是，我感觉非常——我不知道这是富有同情心还是只是热衷于帮助人们找到真相。
I wanted the truth.
我想要真相。
I looked hard.
我认真地看着。
I have resources not every person has because of my position.
由于我的职位，我拥有并非每个人都拥有的资源。
I used them.
我用过它们。
Now, I want to give the benefit that I have found to other people.
现在，我想把我发现的好处给其他人。
I feel like that's the perfect answer.
我觉得这就是完美的答案。
I guess I'm asking if you actually always feel that way?
我想我是在问你是否真的总是有这样的感觉？
I would say 99% of the time.
我会说99%的时间。
David Kestenbaum Ed's been talking to this couple for about 25 minutes at this point.
此时，David Kestenbaum Ed 已经与这对夫妇交谈了大约 25 分钟。
He doesn't seem to be moving them.
他似乎并没有动他们。
But again, this is his strategy, answer every question they have.
但这又是他的策略，回答他们的每一个问题。
Then something happens though that throws a wrench in this whole thing.
然后发生了一些事情，这给整个事情带来了麻烦。
By now, a small crowd of people has gathered around.
这时，周围已经聚集了一小群人。
And one guy who's been watching jumps in.
一名一直在观看的人跳了进来。
His first word-- baloney.
他的第一句话就是——胡说八道。
--have proved themselves less than trustworthy.
——已经证明自己不值得信任。
Baloney.
胡扯。
David Kestenbaum He tells Ed he doesn't understand why they can't have an independent audit.
David Kestenbaum 他告诉 Ed 他不明白为什么他们不能进行独立审计。
He's pretty insistent.
他还蛮坚持的
We counted the same garbage that was there in the first place.
我们首先清点了那里的垃圾。
OK, why were the elections in six states closed off at 3:00 in the morning and only to resume at 8:00, when that's never happened before?
好吧，为什么六个州的选举在凌晨 3:00 结束，直到 8:00 才恢复，而这种情况以前从未发生过？
Absolutely did not.
绝对没有。
That's a lie.
那是一个谎言。
People are lying to you.
人们在骗你。
It didn't happen.
它没有发生。
Now Ed says, it's no longer just him having a conversation with this couple.
Now Ed says, it's no longer just him having a conversation with this couple.
It's like a live version of what happens on social media, and I think why things go so badly there.
这就像社交媒体上发生的事情的现场版本，我想为什么事情会变得如此糟糕。
Ed's trying to have one conversation, and feels like he's maybe getting somewhere.
艾德正在尝试进行一次对话，并感觉他可能有所进展。
And then this disruptor comes in from the side.
然后这个干扰者从侧面进来。
And you still had Democrat and Republican poll workers there the whole time.
而且一直都有民主党和共和党的投票工作人员在那里。
Sounds like you convinced yourself, but I know what I saw.
听起来你说服了自己，但我知道我看到了什么。
I can't get past the fact that there's no fraud to be seen.
我无法否认没有任何欺诈行为的事实。
Really, Ed?
真的吗，艾德？
Ed later learned that this guy-- he's the son of the couple who was talking to Ed.
艾德后来了解到这个人——他是正在与艾德谈话的那对夫妇的儿子。
Ed doesn't convince any of them.
艾德没有说服他们中的任何一个人。
Dan, the dad who'd come up with his wife at the beginning, who Ed hoped to make headway with said he just didn't think Ed had the expertise to evaluate the election.
丹是一开始提出妻子的父亲，埃德希望与丹取得进展，他说他只是认为埃德不具备评估选举的专业知识。
And what are you going to say to that?
你对此有何评论？
A whole half hour of careful effort on Ed's part to lead them down a logical path is undercut in a sentence.
艾德花了整整半个小时的细心努力引导他们走上一条合乎逻辑的道路，但一句话却削弱了这一点。
He's trying, Dan said, I'll give him that.
他正在努力，丹说，我会给他的。
He's trying his best.
他正在尽力。
I watched Ed talk to one more woman.
我看到埃德和另外一个女人说话。
She came up after the others have gone.
其他人走后她才上来。
She was middle aged and full of questions.
她已经是中年人了，心里充满了疑问。
She brought up almost an exact list of things the others did-- the van in the middle of the night, dead people voting, whether the voting machines could have been hacked.
她列出了几乎一模一样的其他人所做的事情——半夜的货车、死人投票、投票机是否可能被黑客入侵。
You're saying the modems, or the computers were not connected to the internet?
您是说调制解调器或计算机未连接到互联网？
The conversation feels like it's going exactly like the other conversation.
这次谈话感觉就像其他谈话一样。
They talk about the hacking possibility for a long time.
他们谈论了很长时间的黑客攻击可能性。
But then they talk about Afghanistan and the price of electricity in the Upper Peninsula, which they agree on.
但随后他们谈论了阿富汗和上半岛的电价，他们对此达成了一致。
It's expensive.
它很贵。
This time, they don't get interrupted by anyone else.
这一次，他们没有再被任何人打扰。
It's just two people talking at the state fair, which I think maybe more than Ed's laying out all the facts, is the reason why this might work.
这只是两个人在州博览会上的谈话，我认为这可能比埃德列出所有事实更重要，这就是这可能起作用的原因。
If he can put in enough time with someone, be with them long enough, they get a sense for him.
如果他能花足够的时间和某人在一起，和他们在一起足够长的时间，他们就会对他有感觉。
There's a power in physically being in the same space as another person.
与另一个人处于同一空间是一种力量。
They're real in a way that someone online or on TV isn't.
它们是真实的，而网络或电视上的人则不然。
Finally, they circle back to the election from so many months ago.
最后，他们回到了几个月前的选举。
Here's how the conversation ends.
对话就这样结束了。
If something comes up, I hope you will support an audit, forensic audit.
如果出现问题，我希望您支持审计、法证审计。
To look for any new compelling issue that we can't answer with the information we have-- I'm all ears to hear it.
为了寻找我们无法用现有信息回答的任何新的引人注目的问题——我洗耳恭听。
I'm curious too.
我也很好奇。
I want answers.
我想要答案。
But all the issues they bring forward are either flagrantly impossible or issues that have already dealt with to a deep dive extent.
But all the issues they bring forward are either flagrantly impossible or issues that have already dealt with to a deep dive extent.
And I just keep on asking them, show me where I'm wrong.
我只是不断地问他们，告诉我哪里错了。
And rather than do that, they just call me names or say I'm a bad person or paid off by China and shoot the messenger.
他们不但没有这样做，反而辱骂我，或者说我是坏人，或者说我是被中国收买的，然后枪杀了使者。
And I'm like, please, shoot the message for me, because that would help me then go forward and find out what I did wrong.
我想，请为我发送这条消息，因为这将帮助我继续前进并找出我做错了什么。
But I don't-- they don't do that.
但我不——他们不这样做。
And it's frustrating because I'm just as curious as you are about it.
这很令人沮丧，因为我和你一样对此感到好奇。
Just in talking to you and getting the opposite, you know--
只是在与你交谈时却得到相反的结果，你知道——
I appreciate you giving us an open ear to it.
我感谢您对我们的倾听。
And certainly, if you have other questions, you hear something else, just call, message me, call the office.
当然，如果您有其他问题，您会听到其他问题，只需打电话、给我发消息、给办公室打电话即可。
Certainly.
当然。
Well, it's good to hear from you.
嗯，很高兴收到你的来信。
Yep.
是的。
David Kestenbaum Can I ask, did it-- does it change anything for you?
David Kestenbaum 我能问一下，它对你有什么改变吗？
I'm going to go back and reread several things and re-listen to a few podcasts and stuff, and just--
我要回去重读一些东西，重新听一些播客之类的东西，然后——
Yeah, I think I will.
是的，我想我会的。
Ed McBroom I'd appreciate it.
艾德·麦克布鲁姆 我会很感激。
Yeah.
是的。
Like you said, it's 58 pages.
正如你所说，它有 58 页。
So I'll have to take the time.
所以我得抓紧时间。
It was the furthest I saw him get that day.
这是那天我看到他走得最远的距离。
Ed tells me he has seen people change their minds.
埃德告诉我，他看到人们改变了主意。
But usually, he learns it because they come back to him later, sometimes with follow-up questions.
但通常情况下，他之所以能了解到这一点，是因为他们稍后会回来找他，有时还会提出后续问题。
He wasn't surprised nobody switched sides right in front of us.
没有人在我们面前改变立场，他并不感到惊讶。
You can't expect anybody to just disregard their long-held viewpoint or the narrative that they've accepted as being true.
你不能指望任何人会无视他们长期以来的观点或他们所接受的真实叙述。
You can't expect them on the spot to really discard that.
你不能指望他们当场就真的放弃它。
They need time to think.
他们需要时间思考。
I pointed out that according to that national poll from earlier in the summer, something like 2/3 of Republicans, or people who lean Republican, believe Biden only won because of voter fraud.
我指出，根据今年夏天早些时候的全国民意调查，大约 2/3 的共和党人或倾向于共和党的人认为拜登只是因为选民欺诈而获胜。
Ed says in his experience, it's fewer.
埃德说，根据他的经验，这种情况要少一些。
But he humors me.
但他很幽默我。
Sure.
当然。
David Kestenbaum How many people are in your Senate district?
David Kestenbaum 您所在的参议院选区有多少人？
Thousand-- OK, how many of those lean Republican?
一千——好吧，其中有多少是共和党人？
That is 90,000 people would need to be convinced.
也就是说，需要说服 90,000 人。
If each conversation is 20 minutes, divide by 3, that's a number of hours.
如果每次对话为 20 分钟，则除以 3，即为几个小时。
If you're trying to overwhelm you with the impracticalities of me one at a timing it, you don't have to.
如果你想一次一次地用我的不切实际来压倒你，你不必这样做。
I'm already aware of that.
我已经意识到了这一点。
It comes out to 14 years.
14年了。
And that's if it works.
如果它有效的话那就是这样。
I was curious if that last woman had talked to had changed her mind at all, the one who had told him, it was nice to hear the other side and was maybe going to go read his report.
我很好奇最后一位与他交谈的女士是否改变了主意，那个女士告诉他，很高兴听到对方的声音，也许会去读他的报告。
So I reached out.
于是我伸出手。
She said over email she still believed there was election fraud in Michigan, enough to overturn the outcome, and that Ed McBroom was covering it up.
她通过电子邮件表示，她仍然相信密歇根州存在选举舞弊，足以推翻结果，而埃德·麦克布鲁姆正在掩盖此事。
This is maybe the best case scenario for changing people's minds on this issue.
这可能是改变人们对此问题看法的最佳案例。
Like, I do think if anyone could sway people it might be Ed, someone from their own party who also hadn't wanted Biden to win, who explains it all so patiently and clearly.
就像，我确实认为，如果有人能够影响人们，那可能是埃德，他是自己政党的一个人，也不希望拜登获胜，他如此耐心而清晰地解释了这一切。
And it's still so hard.
而且还是那么难。
Ed reads a lot of American history.
艾德读了很多美国历史。
I asked him if he worried about the same thing I do.
我问他是否和我一样担心。
They were so divided.
他们是如此分裂。
Neither side seems to be able to communicate with each other.
双方似乎都无法沟通。
No one seems willing to question what they think they know.
似乎没有人愿意质疑他们认为自己知道的事情。
I asked if he thought we were going off the rails this time.
我问他是否认为我们这次出轨了。
And if what we were going through might be fatal in some way.
如果我们正在经历的事情在某种程度上可能是致命的。
He said he didn't know.
他说他不知道。
He said the social fabric has been stretched before, and we've gotten through it.
他说，社会结构以前就曾出现过紧张，但我们已经度过了难关。
I hope that that's going to be the case now.
我希望现在的情况也是如此。
But I think there's reasons to have some doubt about that too and to have some trepidation.
但我认为我们也有理由对此表示怀疑并感到恐惧。
That keeps me up at night, you know?
这让我彻夜难眠，你知道吗？
It really does.
确实如此。
I understand.
我明白。
I try not to let it worry me, because I firmly believe that we're in God's hands and the nation is in his hands and will trend in the direction that brings him the most glory.
我尽量不让它让我担心，因为我坚信我们在上帝的手中，国家在他的手中，并将朝着给他带来最大荣耀的方向发展。
I didn't ask what someone was supposed to hold onto if they don't believe that.
我没有问如果人们不相信这一点，他们应该坚持什么。
Ed's going to keep talking to people.
艾德将继续与人们交谈。
There are lots of issues like this, he says.
他说，这样的问题还有很多。
You just go person to person as long as it takes.
只要需要，你就可以一个人到另一个人。
That's the job.
这就是工作。
David Kestenbaum is senior editor of our show.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 是我们节目的高级编辑。
Act Two, How I Met My Mother.
第二幕，我是如何认识我的母亲的。
So one of the producers here at our show, Elna Baker, comes from a long line of passive aggressive communicators.
我们节目中的一位制作人埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 出身于一长串消极攻击型沟通者行列。
By the way, they know this, they own it.
顺便说一句，他们知道这一点，他们拥有它。
When her grandmother wanted to get a message across, like don't leave change lying around, she put an article on the fridge saying, toddler chokes on penny.
当她的祖母想要传达一个信息，比如不要把零钱随处乱放时，她在冰箱上贴了一篇文章，上面写着：幼儿被便士噎住了。
And then just leave it to everybody else to connect the dots.
然后让其他人将这些点联系起来。
Elna's mother communicates in the same indirect way, which became a problem in the years after Elena left the church.
艾琳娜的母亲也以同样间接的方式进行交流，这在艾琳娜离开教堂后的几年里成为了一个问题。
Elna's family's Mormon.
艾尔娜的家人是摩门教徒。
And her mom had some important things that she wanted to say to her.
她妈妈有一些重要的事情想对她说。
Here's Elna.
这是艾尔娜。
This all started when I made a joke about me buying weed to my brother.
这一切都始于我开玩笑说我给我哥哥买大麻。
Careful, he said.
小心点，他说。
If mom were to hear that, she'd send an email to the whole family about how you're an addict.
如果妈妈听到这个，她会向全家人发送一封电子邮件，告诉你你是如何上瘾的。
I laughed.
我笑了。
And then I was like, wait, what?
然后我就想，等等，什么？
That was way too specific.
那太具体了。
Did mom send an email to the whole family about me being an addict?
妈妈有没有给全家发邮件说我是个瘾君子？
And he was like, uh, mm, nothing.
他就像，呃，嗯，什么都没有。
Never mind, which could only mean one thing, she did.
没关系，这只能意味着一件事，她做到了。
It took several rounds of questioning before I got the whole story.
经过几轮询问，我才了解了整个事情的经过。
The email he was referencing, my mom had sent it 10 years ago.
他引用的电子邮件是我妈妈 10 年前发送的。
At the time, I was about to host a comedy show in New York, where me and a bunch of performers would play drinking games on stage.
当时，我正准备在纽约主持一场喜剧表演，我和一帮表演者会在舞台上玩喝酒游戏。
It was called The Drunk Show.
它被称为“醉酒秀”。
The show is being promoted online.
该剧正在网上进行宣传。
My mom, a devout Mormon, saw an article about it and freaked out.
我的妈妈是一位虔诚的摩门教徒，她看到一篇有关这件事的文章后吓坏了。
Mormons don't drink.
摩门教徒不喝酒。
It's against the religion.
这是反对宗教的。
And what I learned from my brother, years after the fact, is that my mom was so worried that I was doing this show, she sent an email to my family, my extended family-- uncles, cousins-- and family friends who I grew up with, like the Mitchells, the Coxes, Heidi, my middle school drama teacher.
多年后，我从我哥哥那里了解到，我妈妈非常担心我做这个节目，她给我的家人、我的大家庭——叔叔、表兄弟——以及和我一起长大的家庭朋友发了一封电子邮件，比如米切尔一家、考克斯一家、我的中学戏剧老师海蒂。
Dear friends, it begins.
亲爱的朋友们，开始了。
I am writing because I am concerned about the direction Elna's life has turned.
我写这篇文章是因为我担心艾尔娜生活的方向。
She is spiraling downward fast.
她正在快速下降。
My mom then explains to them that I'm doing this event called The Drunk Show.
然后我妈妈向他们解释说我正在举办这个名为“醉酒秀”的活动。
Then writes, I am very concerned.
然后写道，我很担心。
In our family, you are either an alcoholic or a Mormon.
在我们家里，你要么是酒鬼，要么是摩门教徒。
And I think she may be headed in the wrong direction.
我认为她可能正走向错误的方向。
I don't know what I can do personally.
我不知道我个人能做什么。
She doesn't hear me.
她听不见我说话。
I'm going to interject here that I didn't hear her, because she never said anything to me about it.
我要在这里插一句，我没有听到她的声音，因为她从来没有对我说过任何关于这件事的事情。
In the email, she inserts a link to the article about The Drunk Show and then reveals her grand master plan.
在电子邮件中，她插入了有关《醉酒秀》文章的链接，然后透露了她的宏伟总体计划。
She's been commenting on the article under fake names, warning me not to do the show.
她一直在用假名评论这篇文章，警告我不要做这个节目。
Can everyone else please make up fake accounts and also comment?
其他人可以编个假账号并发表评论吗？
This way, I'll cancel the show.
这样一来，我就取消演出了。
She ends, thanks, pray for us both, please.
她结束了，谢谢，请为我们俩祈祷。
When I read this email, I was mortified.
当我读到这封电子邮件时，我感到羞愧。
I drink socially.
我在社交场合喝酒。
I'm not an alcoholic.
我不是酒鬼。
But since I'd never intercepted the email, I worried everyone who got it had thought this for years.
但由于我从未拦截过这封电子邮件，我担心收到该电子邮件的每个人多年来都这么想。
I immediately clicked on the link to the article.
我立即点击了文章的链接。
At the bottom of the page, there were four comments from four different people trolling me, all clearly my mother.
在页面底部，有来自四个不同人的四条评论在攻击我，显然都是我的母亲。
Her first fake character is Carol from the West Village who says, quote, "encouraging irresponsible drinking that could end in hospitalization of performers is an invitation to a lawsuit.
她的第一个假角色是来自西村的卡罗尔，她说，“鼓励不负责任的饮酒，这可能导致表演者住院，这等于招致诉讼。
Don't be idiots."
别是白痴。”
The three other comments escalate from there.
其他三个评论由此升级。
Here's the weirdest part.
这是最奇怪的部分。
She wrote all these comments while she was staying with me.
所有这些评论都是她和我住在一起时写的。
She was in town the week of The Drunk Show.
《醉酒秀》演出那周她在城里。
We slept in the same bed.
我们睡在同一张床上。
But she didn't say a word to me about it.
但她没有对我说过这件事。
As interventions go, it was the least successful one I've ever heard of or could imagine.
就干预措施而言，这是我听说过或能想象到的最不成功的一次。
No one else among the family or friends chimed in.
家人或朋友中没有其他人插话。
And I, the target of the intervention, never knew what happened.
而我，作为干预的目标，从来不知道发生了什么。
I never heard of or read the comments online until my brother accidentally let it slip years later.
我从来没有听说过或读过网上的评论，直到几年后我哥哥不小心泄露了它。
Since I found out about this, I've wondered why my mom chose to communicate this message to me the way she did.
自从我发现这件事后，我想知道为什么我妈妈选择以她的方式向我传达这个信息。
But I've never asked her, because I figured it would just lead to a fight and no answers.
但我从来没有问过她，因为我认为这只会导致一场争吵，而且没有答案。
But we're much closer now than we were when I did The Drunk Show.
但现在我们比我拍《醉秀》时更亲近了。
Why not try?
为什么不尝试呢？
To my surprise, she agreed to talk about it, but on these conditions.
令我惊讶的是，她同意谈论这件事，但有这些条件。
Dad had to be there in case we needed mediation.
爸爸必须在场，以防我们需要调解。
I had to come home for Christmas in exchange.
作为交换，我不得不回家过圣诞节。
And most importantly, I could only do this story if she got to write the ending, which we'll get to later.
最重要的是，只有她写出结局，我才能写这个故事，我们稍后会讲到。
A talk for a second?
聊一会儿？
Mom Hi, Elna, how are you?
妈妈嗨，艾尔娜，你好吗？
I'm trying out a lower voice, because I think my voice is too screechy.
我正在尝试降低声音，因为我觉得我的声音太刺耳了。
Don't do that.
不要那样做。
Don't spend the whole interview not being yourself.
不要在整个面试中都表现得不是你自己。
We started at the beginning.
我们从头开始。
How did my mother decide that anonymous comments online would be the best way to reach me?
我母亲是如何决定在线匿名评论是联系我的最佳方式的？
She said my sister Julia told her about The Drunk Show.
她说我姐姐朱莉娅告诉她《醉酒秀》的事。
So I'm laying there on the couch.
所以我躺在沙发上。
I'm at your apartment, probably about 5:00 in the morning.
我大概早上 5:00 左右就到了你的公寓。
And I'm stewing over this.
我正在为这个烦恼。
I can't sleep, having haven't slept for hours.
我睡不着，已经几个小时没睡了。
And then I just had this little epiphany.
然后我就突然顿悟了。
I can put this on here in somebody else's voice.
我可以用别人的声音把它放在这里。
I don't have to use my own voice.
我不必用我自己的声音。
And then maybe she'll take it seriously.
然后也许她会认真对待这件事。
You just need to hear it from New Yorkers.
你只需要听听纽约人的说法即可。
Why?
为什么？
Mom God, Elna, you're from New York.
天哪，埃尔娜，你来自纽约。
You live in New York.
你住在纽约。
And you value their opinions.
并且您重视他们的意见。
More than yours?
比你的还多吗？
Mom Oh, absolutely, because I'm this fuddy duddy, old fashioned Mormon lady that doesn't know anything.
妈妈哦，当然，因为我是个古板的老派摩门教女士，什么都不知道。
You know, I'm like from 1950.
你知道，我就像 1950 年的人。
I'm like June Cleaver.
我就像琼·克利弗。
Are you saying that you are like that or that I think-- you think--
你是说你是那样的还是我认为——你认为——
That's what I think you think I am, yeah.
我认为你也认为我是这样的，是的。
Before things get too tense, my mom and I pull up the comments page together.
在事情变得太紧张之前，我和妈妈一起打开了评论页面。
The first thing I learned was how fleshed out these people were in my mom's mind, like Carol from the West Village, who warned that irresponsible drinking could lead to lawsuits.
我学到的第一件事是这些人在我妈妈的脑海里是多么充实，比如来自西村的卡罗尔，她警告说不负责任的饮酒可能会导致诉讼。
She's a lawyer, because that's the way a lawyer would say things, isn't it?
她是一名律师，因为这就是律师说话的方式，不是吗？
OK.
好的。
Mom She's dealt with lawsuits that have involved drunk drivers or something with alcohol is involved, right?
妈妈 她处理过涉及醉酒司机或涉及酒精的诉讼，对吧？
To be clear, nowhere in the comments does it say Carol is a lawyer.
需要明确的是，评论中没有任何地方说卡罗尔是律师。
For each entry, there's just a name and location, like Don from the Upper West Side.
对于每个条目，只有一个名称和位置，例如来自上西区的 Don。
Pretty ritzy area, right?
相当豪华的区域，对吧？
Elna Baker Who is done in your mind?
艾尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 你心目中的人物是谁？
Who's older.
谁年纪大了。
He used to do kind of the old-style comedy.
他以前演过老式喜剧。
Again, reading the comments, you'd never know Don was a comedian.
再说一遍，阅读评论，你永远不会知道唐是一名喜剧演员。
Yeah, he's just disgusted with how comedy has evolved in the last 15 years or so.
是的，他只是对喜剧在过去 15 年左右的发展方式感到厌恶。
What does Don think about me doing this show?
Don 对我做这个节目有何看法？
He says comedy, where you are laughing at the performers and not with the performers is not comedy.
他说喜剧，如果你嘲笑表演者而不是与表演者一起笑，那不是喜剧。
It is tragedy.
这是悲剧。
Is this really what NYC comedy is reduced to?
这真的是纽约喜剧的缩影吗？
Are you really not cleverer than this?
你真的不比这聪明吗？
Why did you think, like, Don saying this to me would reach me?
你为什么认为唐对我说这句话会影响到我？
Well, you love comedians.
嗯，你喜欢喜剧演员。
I mean, it's all about the comedy for you.
我的意思是，这对你来说都是喜剧。
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Mom So of course, if this is not going to be funny, then maybe we shouldn't do this.
妈妈，当然，如果这不好笑，那么也许我们不应该这样做。
The next comment comes from the East Village, from a commenter named, Please.
下一条评论来自东村，来自一位名为“请”的评论者。
OK, so I'm thinking this is a policeman.
好吧，所以我认为这是一名警察。
And his name is Please?
他的名字叫请？
Mom Yeah, Officer Please.
妈妈 是的，请警官。
It, doesn't say Officer, mom.
它，没有说警官，妈妈。
(LAUGHING) It just says Please.
（笑）它只是说“请”。
Why is this policeman writing me?
这位警察为什么给我写信？
Why is he so offended by this show?
为什么他对这个节目这么反感？
Well, he says 10 years after 9/11, and this is where New York is?
好吧，他说 9/11 10 年后，这就是纽约？
Come on.
快点。
I think this week of all weeks, we should all be a little more sensitive and full of introspection.
我认为本周，我们都应该更加敏感并充满内省。
OK.
好的。
Can we just-- I think we can both agree that you went-- you went real big on this one.
我们能不能——我想我们都同意你——你在这件事上做得非常大。
I hit the 9/11 button Elna Baker Her last comment is a straight-up Mormon talking point.
我按下了 9/11 按钮 Elna Baker 她的最后一条评论是直截了当的摩门教谈话要点。
Alcoholism, and all other addictions, take away freedom of choice.
酗酒和所有其他成瘾行为剥夺了选择的自由。
Seven minutes after she posted that, she sent the mass email.
发布该消息七分钟后，她发送了群发电子邮件。
My mom said she went so hard because--
我妈妈说她这么努力是因为——
So I have two uncles who died of alcoholism poisoning.
所以我有两个叔叔都是死于酒精中毒。
My uncle died at age 30.
我叔叔30岁时去世了。
My other uncle came to my wedding completely drunk and ended up dead about two years later from alcoholism.
我的另一个叔叔喝得酩酊大醉地来参加我的婚礼，大约两年后死于酗酒。
Gary's grandfather died of alcoholism.
加里的祖父死于酗酒。
So that's how I get there.
这就是我到达那里的方式。
It's not like it's a Mormon thing.
这不像是摩门教的事情。
It's an experience that has affected me.
这是一次影响我的经历。
It affected my mother.
它影响了我的母亲。
She was just devastated over her brother and his alcoholism.
她只是对她哥哥和他的酗酒感到震惊。
Stopping The Drunk Show meant stopping me from becoming one of these people.
阻止《醉酒秀》意味着阻止我成为这些人中的一员。
My mom says she saw the promo photo of me sipping a drink on the page announcing the show and thought--
我妈妈说她在节目预告页面上看到了我喝着饮料的宣传照片，然后想——
Has she lost her mind?
她失去理智了吗？
She has relatives who died of alcoholism.
她有亲戚死于酗酒。
She's been taught since she was little girl to be careful around alcohol.
她从小就被教导要小心饮酒。
Has she completely blocked out everything I've ever taught her?
她是否完全封锁了我教给她的一切？
Elna, we've already been there.
艾尔娜，我们已经去过那里了。
You don't hear me.
你没听见我说话。
You just don't hear me.
你只是没听见我说话。
It's just a joke.
这只是一个笑话。
You have to hear it from somebody who you think is credible.
你必须从你认为可信的人那里听到它。
Come on.
快点。
Admit it, Elna, you know you would have just laughed.
承认吧，埃尔娜，你知道你只会笑。
You would have called Kevin.
你会打电话给凯文。
You would have had a good laugh.
你一定会开怀大笑的。
And you would have had the show anyway.
无论如何你都会看到这个节目。
But you didn't-- the thing-- Mom Come on.
但你没有——事情——妈妈来吧。
Admit it.
承认吧。
You know it.
你知道的。
You know you would have rolled your eyes at me.
你知道你会对我翻白眼的。
But you didn't even try.
但你根本就没有尝试过。
Mom Elna, just tell me.
艾尔娜妈妈，请告诉我。
What's the truth on your end?
你的真相到底是什么？
Well, I don't think I-- here's the thing.
嗯，我不认为我——事情是这样的。
I think if you just told me not to do it, I would have done exactly what you're saying.
我想如果你只是告诉我不要这样做，我就会完全按照你说的去做。
But if we'd had a full conversation where we really talked-- like so for example, I didn't know until just now, until we've had this conversation-- like, I didn't really know that much about your family history with drinking.
但是，如果我们进行了一次完整的对话，我们真正交谈过——例如，我直到刚才才知道，直到我们进行了这次对话——就像，我不太了解你的家族饮酒史。
You don't talk about these unpleasant things.
你不要谈论这些不愉快的事情。
So that like when you're so against drinking, I think I did think it was just had to do with Mormonism and not that it had to do with really painful things you witnessed in your life, because you never told me about them.
所以就像你如此反对喝酒一样，我想我确实认为这只是与摩门教有关，而不是与你在生活中目睹的真正痛苦的事情有关，因为你从未告诉过我这些事情。
I'm sure I've said this statement before in your life.
我确信我以前在你的生活中说过这句话。
In our family, you're either Mormon or an--
在我们家里，你要么是摩门教徒，要么——
Alcoholic.
酗酒。
Mom --alcoholic, yeah.
妈妈——酗酒，是的。
You heard that one before.
你以前听说过这个。
She'd said this to me all my life, but I was missing the context.
她一生都对我说过这句话，但我却忽略了上下文。
I've never met any of these family members who drank.
我从来没有见过这些家庭成员喝酒的人。
I don't remember her ever mentioning any of these stories.
我不记得她曾提起过这些故事。
I saw my mother as sheltered.
我看到我的母亲受到庇护。
Almost all her friends are Mormon.
她的朋友几乎都是摩门教徒。
I just thought, she doesn't know what she's talking about, which was unfair.
我只是想，她不知道自己在说什么，这不公平。
When I make a radio story, I listen to my interviews over and over again.
当我制作广播故事时，我会一遍又一遍地听我的采访。
And this time, something unusual started to happen.
而这一次，一些不寻常的事情开始发生。
With each listen, my mother sounded less and less like my mother, like I stopped hearing her the way I usually do, rolling my eyes, getting defensive.
每次听，我母亲的声音都越来越不像我的母亲，就像我不再像平常那样听她说话，翻白眼，变得防御性。
And I actually started to hear what she had to say.
我实际上开始听到她要说的话。
This is the line that struck me the hardest.
这是给我印象最深的一句话。
Elna, we've already been there.
艾尔娜，我们已经去过那里了。
You don't hear me.
你没听见我说话。
She's right.
她是对的。
And I can hear in her voice that this has been hurting her feelings for years.
我从她的声音中听出，这多年来一直伤害着她的感情。
And that's my fault.
那是我的错。
I see why she thinks it's hopeless to talk to me about drinking, about anything.
我明白为什么她认为和我谈论喝酒或任何事情都是没有希望的。
I'm incredibly dismissive.
我非常不屑一顾。
That's my part in this.
这就是我的部分。
And her part, she was totally upfront about that.
而她自己则完全坦率地表达了这一点。
She didn't want to confront me about drinking, because she has so much trouble with confrontation of any kind with anyone, going back to when she was young.
她不想因为喝酒的事与我对质，因为她很难与任何人发生任何形式的对抗，这可以追溯到她年轻的时候。
I mean, as a little kid, I used to just admit fault to anything that happened in our family in order to get the confrontation to be over with.
我的意思是，作为一个小孩子，我过去常常承认我们家里发生的任何事情的错误，以便结束对抗。
I never understood before this conversation what that feels like for her.
在这次谈话之前我从来不理解她的感受。
She panics, feels trapped, like she needs to run, tightness in her chest, which is what makes this conversation so hard.
她惊慌失措，感觉被困住了，就像她需要逃跑，胸口发紧，这就是让这次谈话如此困难的原因。
This is what-- we're doing exactly what I hate to do.
这就是我们正在做的正是我讨厌做的事情。
So what's happening to you when we do it?
那么当我们这样做时，你会发生什么？
Well, see, I'm twiddling my thumbs, right?
好吧，看，我正在摆弄我的拇指，对吧？
I'm feeling my neck turn to stone.
我感觉我的脖子变成了石头。
This cord, which is already coiled up, has been triple coiled, for the headphones.
这条已经盘绕的线已经被三层盘绕，用于耳机。
So, yeah.
所以，是的。
Elna Baker Well, thank you for putting yourself in your most uncomfortable place.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）好吧，谢谢你把自己置于最不舒服的境地。
Sure.
当然。
You're welcome, Elna, anything for my daughter.
不客气，埃尔娜，为我女儿做任何事都可以。
I knew what this meant.
我知道这意味着什么。
From the tone of her voice, it was time to stop.
从她的语气来看，是时候停下来了。
This was the most direct conversation I've ever had with my mother, and the longest real conversation we've ever had.
这是我和母亲进行过的最直接的对话，也是我们进行过的最长的真实对话。
She'd gone above and beyond and did something she did not enjoy for me.
她为我做了一些她不喜欢的事情。
I could return the favor and call it a day.
我可以报答你的恩情，今天就到此为止了。
Well, folks, my ticket home for Christmas is booked.
好了，伙计们，我圣诞节回家的机票已经订好了。
And now, for the ending my mother requested.
现在，对于我母亲要求的结局。
It comes down to three words, she was right.
归根结底就三个字，她说得对。
Not about me spiraling downward fast, but about The Drunk Show.
不是关于我快速下降，而是关于醉秀。
For the record, The Drunk Show was a disaster.
据记录，《醉酒秀》是一场灾难。
I was the one who organized the drinking games.
我是组织饮酒游戏的人。
But because I'd only recently left the church, I was brand new to drinking.
但因为我刚刚离开教堂，所以我对喝酒还是个新手。
And all the penalties in the games were things like, take four shots of whiskey.
比赛中所有的处罚都是诸如喝四杯威士忌之类的。
Things went off the rails quickly.
事情很快就脱轨了。
A performer threw a chair at an audience member.
一名表演者向一名观众扔椅子。
I drunk dialed my ex from the stage.
我喝醉了，在台上给我的前任打电话。
And the call went so badly that I started crying in front of the audience.
通话进行得很糟糕，我开始在观众面前哭泣。
Ira, who was in the show, got blackout drunk for the first time in his life, he said, and then threw up into a trash bag.
节目中的艾拉说，他有生以来第一次喝得酩酊大醉，然后吐进了垃圾袋。
And someone ended up in the hospital.
有人最终住进了医院。
My mom knew none of those details, of course.
当然，我妈妈对这些细节一无所知。
But big picture, Carol from the West Village knew what she was talking about when she said, irresponsible drinking can lead to hospitalization.
但从大局来看，来自西村的卡罗尔知道她在说什么，不负责任的饮酒可能会导致住院。
In other words, mom was right.
换句话说，妈妈是对的。
Elna Baker is one of the producers of our show.
埃尔娜·贝克是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up, we hop on a Zoom with the most literal minded character in children's fiction.
接下来，我们将与儿童小说中最直白的人物一起跳上Zoom。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
来自芝加哥公共广播电台，当我们的节目继续进行时。
This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这个美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program--
今天的节目——
What we've got here is failure to communicate.
我们遇到的问题是无法沟通。
Thank you, Cool Hand Luke.
谢谢你，酷手卢克。
Today's show, we have people trying, sometimes saying the exact right words that you think would get across the meaning.
在今天的节目中，我们有人尝试，有时会说出您认为可以传达含义的正确词语。
And it does not work for all kinds of reasons.
而且由于各种原因它不起作用。
We have arrived at Act 3 of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, Amelia Bedelia Works From Home.
第三幕，阿米莉亚·比蒂莉亚在家工作。
So thinking about miscommunicated messages this week got a bunch of us here at our radio show remembering Amelia Bedelia.
因此，考虑到本周传达错误的信息，我们广播节目中的一群人想起了阿米莉亚·贝迪莉亚。
You know her?
你认识她吗？
She's the main character in a set of kids books from the '60s that have just lived on about a housekeeper who takes any instruction way to literally.
她是一套 60 年代儿童读物中的主角，这些读物刚刚讲述了一位管家的故事，她严格按照字面意思接受任何指导。
Like, the family asks Amelia Bedelia to draw the drapes.
比如，这家人请阿米莉亚·比迪莉亚拉窗帘。
And then Amelia Bedelia pulls out a pen and paper and draws a picture of the family's curtains.
然后，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚拿出纸笔，画了一张家里的窗帘。
These stories, of course, are so old fashioned.
当然，这些故事太老套了。
And we wondered what life might be like if Amelia Bedelia were around today.
我们想知道如果阿米莉亚·比迪莉亚今天还在的话，生活会是什么样子。
And we asked a writer, Hallie Cantor to think it through for us.
我们请一位作家哈莉·坎托（Hallie Cantor）为我们考虑一下。
Here is what Hallie came up with.
这就是哈莉的想法。
It's read for us by actor Hannah Einbinder.
演员汉娜·艾因宾德 (Hannah Einbinder) 为我们朗读了这首歌。
It was Amelia Bedelia's first day working from home.
这是阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚在家工作的第一天。
And she opened her laptop while still in her pajamas.
她还穿着睡衣就打开了笔记本电脑。
My, what a nice situation, said Amelia Bedelia.
天哪，情况多好啊，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚说。
I'm going to like working here.
我会喜欢在这里工作的。
Amelia Bedelia's boss, Mrs. Rogers, had sent her an email with a list of instructions.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚的老板罗杰斯夫人给她发了一封电子邮件，其中包含一系列说明。
Amelia Bedelia read, first thing in the morning, touch base with HR.
Amelia Bedelia 读到，早上第一件事就是与 HR 联系。
That's odd, thought Amelia Bedelia.
这很奇怪，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚想。
But she knew her job was to do what Mrs. Rogers wanted.
但她知道她的工作就是做罗杰斯夫人想要的事情。
So Amelia Bedelia got a pair of scissors and some paper, cut out the letters H and R and walked to the baseball field.
于是，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚拿了一把剪刀和一些纸，剪下字母H和R，然后走到棒球场。
She walked around the whole diamond and touched each base with the H and R.
她绕着整颗钻石走了一圈，并用 H 和 R 触摸了每个底座。
Done.
完成。
A text came in from Mrs. Rogers.
罗杰斯夫人发来一条短信。
Morning team, let's hop on the Zoom when you're ready.
早安，准备好后，让我们开始使用 Zoom。
Amelia Bedelia joined the Zoom call and began jumping up and down.
阿米莉亚·贝迪莉亚 (Amelia Bedelia) 加入了 Zoom 通话，并开始上蹿下跳。
What are you doing, Amelia Bedelia, asked Mrs. Rogers?
罗杰斯夫人问道，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚，你在做什么？
I'm hopping on the Zoom, of course, said Amelia Bedelia.
“当然，我会选择 Zoom”，Amelia Bedelia 说道。
Oh, OK, said Mrs. Rogers.
哦，好的，罗杰斯夫人说。
You know what, Amelia Bedelia, we actually don't need you on this call after all.
你知道吗，Amelia Bedelia，我们实际上根本不需要你参加这次电话会议。
Why don't you just go order your lunch?
你为什么不去订午餐呢？
You got it, said Amelia Bedelia.
你明白了，阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚说。
Mrs. Rogers hadn't said what order to put her lunch in, so Amelia Bedelia decided to be an overachiever.
罗杰斯太太没有说午餐的顺序，所以阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚决定要成为一名优秀的学生。
First, she ordered her lunch by height.
首先，她按照身高订了午餐。
Then she ordered her lunch alphabetically, bread, cheese, chips, lettuce, tomato, turkey, water, perfect.
然后她按字母顺序点了午餐，面包、奶酪、薯条、生菜、西红柿、火鸡、水，完美。
Amelia Bedelia checked her list from Mrs. Rogers again.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚又从罗杰斯太太那里核对了一遍清单。
Write some copy for the new home page.
为新主页写一些文案。
So Amelia Bedelia sat at her laptop and typed the words, the new home page, 50 times in a row.
于是，Amelia Bedelia 坐在笔记本电脑前，连续输入“新主页”50 次。
Writing some copy sure was easy.
写一些副本确实很容易。
Soon after she had sent in her work, Mrs. Rogers called, sounding angry.
寄完作业后不久，罗杰斯夫人就打来电话，听起来很生气。
Amelia Bedelia, I hired you to increase our brand engagement, not to waste my time.
Amelia Bedelia，我雇用你是为了提高我们的品牌参与度，而不是浪费我的时间。
You're fired.
你被解雇了。
Amelia Bedelia was stunned.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚惊呆了。
When she told her roommate Alexis what happened, Alexis asked how she was going to make rent.
当她告诉室友亚历克西斯发生了什么事时，亚历克西斯问她将如何支付租金。
I can't think about putting on a revival of a 1996 musical right now, Alexis, said Amelia Bedelia.
“亚历克西斯，我现在无法考虑重演 1996 年的音乐剧，”阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚说。
I just lost my job.
我刚刚失业了。
Then she heard the sound of hammering and frustrated cursing from outside.
然后她听到外面传来敲击声和沮丧的咒骂声。
She went to investigate and saw a man trying to construct something out of wood and nails.
她去调查，看到一个男人试图用木头和钉子建造一些东西。
Amelia Bedelia introduced herself.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚做了自我介绍。
The man, Alfonso Badonzo, explained that his boss had asked him to build a deck for a presentation tomorrow.
这位名叫阿方索·巴东佐 (Alfonso Badonzo) 的男子解释说，他的老板要求他为明天的演示搭建一个平台。
I've been working for hours, but I just don't understand how he expects me to build a deck in one day.
我已经工作了几个小时，但我就是不明白他如何期望我在一天之内搭建一套牌。
The same sorts of things have been happening to me, Amelia Bedelia said.
“同样的事情也发生在我身上，”阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚说。
Then Amelia Bedelia had an idea.
然后阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚想到了一个主意。
She knelt in front of Alfonso Badonzo and proposed marriage.
她跪在阿方索·巴东佐面前求婚。
Alfonso Badonzo accepted immediately.
阿方索·巴东佐立即接受了。
Amelia Bedelia was thrilled.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚很激动。
Now that I've increased engagement, Mrs. Rogers will definitely give me my job back.
既然我已经提高了参与度，罗杰斯夫人肯定会把工作还给我。
Also, can I move in with you?
还有，我可以搬去和你一起住吗？
I'm pretty sure my roommate is changing the locks.
我很确定我的室友正在换锁。
Why do the locks need changing, Alfonso Badonzo asked, were their clothes dirty?
阿方索·巴东佐问道，为什么锁需要换，他们的衣服脏了吗？
Amelia Bedelia looked at him, her soulmate.
阿米莉亚·贝蒂莉亚看着他，她的灵魂伴侣。
Hannah Enbinder, reading a story by Hallie Cantor.
汉娜·恩宾德（Hannah Enbinder）正在阅读哈莉·坎托（Hallie Cantor）的故事。
Hallie's the main writer of Magical Girl Friendship Squad.
哈莉是《魔法少女友谊小队》的主要编剧。
Her website, halliecantor.com.
她的网站 Halliecantor.com。
You can hear and see more of Hannah on HBO's Hacks.
您可以在 HBO 的 Hacks 上听到和看到更多关于 Hannah 的内容。
Act Four, The Importance of Meeting Earnest.
第四幕，认真对待的重要性。
So we end today's program with one final act of miscommunication, a dad who has a crucial bit of information that everyone in his family would want to know that he somehow neglects to mention for over a half century.
因此，我们以最后一次沟通不畅的行为结束了今天的节目，一位父亲掌握了一些关键信息，而他的家人都想知道这些信息，但不知何故，他半个多世纪以来都没有提及。
Jeanne Darst tells what happened.
珍妮·达斯特讲述了发生的事情。
I was the last one to meet Ernest, because I was the last one to find out Ernest existed.
我是最后一个见到欧内斯特的人，因为我是最后一个发现欧内斯特存在的人。
Here's what happened.
事情是这样的。
My sister, Amy, stopped by my sister Liz's house to discuss a very urgent matter, an outlandish story that my father was hitting on a priest at the Westport Catholic church.
我的姐姐艾米到姐姐莉兹家去讨论一件非常紧急的事情，一个关于我父亲在韦斯特波特天主教堂与一位牧师发生的奇怪故事。
Liz cut her off.
丽兹打断了她的话。
Dad is not gay, but if he was, nobody cares.
爸爸不是同性恋，但如果他是同性恋，没人会在意。
Amy shot back, well, you don't know dad as well as you think you do.
艾米反驳道，好吧，你并不像你想象的那么了解爸爸。
He has a son in New Orleans.
他在新奥尔良有一个儿子。
Liz yells, wait!
莉兹大喊，等等！
What?
什么？
Amy says, google "Ernie The Attorney." The second Liz tells me this of course, I flip open my laptop and google "Ernie The Attorney." And Ernie The Attorney's face, which is identical to my father's face, pops up off the screen and attaches itself to my eyeballs.
艾米说，用谷歌搜索“厄尼律师”。当然，第二次莉兹告诉我这一点时，我打开笔记本电脑并谷歌搜索“厄尼律师”。律师厄尼的脸，与我父亲的脸一模一样，从屏幕上弹出，贴在我的眼球上。
He looks more like my father than any of us.
他看起来比我们任何人都更像我父亲。
He looks more like my father than my father.
他看起来比我的父亲更像我的父亲。
Liz calls my dad.
莉兹给我爸爸打电话。
Hey, Dad, Amy said she found you googling this guy late at night and that he's your son-- that you have a son in New Orleans.
嘿，爸爸，艾米说她发现你深夜在谷歌上搜索这个人，他是你的儿子——你在新奥尔良有一个儿子。
My dad says, you mean, the doctor?
我爸爸说，你是说医生吗？
Liz yells, there's a doctor too?
莉兹喊道，还有医生吗？
Oh, sorry, I meant the attorney.
哦，抱歉，我指的是律师。
Oh, well, that's true.
哦，好吧，确实如此。
He acts like he wasn't keeping this from us for 62 years.
他表现得好像 62 年来他都没有向我们隐瞒这件事。
We just weren't asking the right questions.
我们只是没有问正确的问题。
He never told anyone I'm sure, because he knew my mom would never stop bringing it up.
我确信他从未告诉过任何人，因为他知道我妈妈永远不会停止提起这件事。
And then he, rather matter-of-factly, tells Liz that when he was a 24-year-old reporter in New Orleans, he met a 22-year-old married Panamanian woman named Raquel Elena Lefevre, he called her Raqui.
然后他相当实事求是地告诉莉兹，当他24岁的时候在新奥尔良当记者时，他遇到了一位22岁的巴拿马已婚女子拉奎尔·埃琳娜·勒费夫尔（Raquel Elena Lefevre），他称她为拉奎（Raqui）。
And they had an affair.
他们有外遇。
Her husband, a Swedish psychoanalyst who was a decade older, was infertile and didn't tell her that when they got married.
她的丈夫是一位瑞典精神分析学家，比她大十岁，不育，结婚时没有告诉她这一点。
He was also a philanderer.
他也是一个花花公子。
Everyone in this story I should just say, men, women, everyone in this story is a philanderer.
我只想说，这个故事里的每个人，男人，女人，这个故事里的每个人都是花花公子。
So initially, Raqui is just looking to conceive.
所以最初，拉奎只是想怀孕。
But she and my father fall in love.
但她和我父亲坠入爱河。
Then Raqui's father, a Panamanian businessman, comes to the States.
然后拉基的父亲，一位巴拿马商人，来到了美国。
And the three of them have lunch-- her father, my father, and a newly pregnant Raqui.
他们三个人共进午餐——她的父亲、我的父亲和刚怀孕的拉奎。
She presents my father to ask if she can leave the Swedish psychoanalyst.
她向我父亲提出请求，询问她是否可以离开这位瑞典精神分析师。
Her father says, no, you're staying put.
她父亲说，不，你要留在原地。
Catholicism playing some part, but perhaps, my father making $56 a week being another part.
天主教起了一定作用，但也许我父亲每周挣 56 美元也是另一部分。
So my father feels the child is in a marriage, has a father, and there's nothing he can do.
所以我父亲觉得孩子已经结婚了，有父亲了，他也无能为力。
He moves back to St. Louis, marries my mother and has us four girls.
他搬回圣路易斯，与我母亲结婚，并育有四个女儿。
And doesn't ever interact with this truth again.
并且再也不会与这个事实互动。
How does someone do that?
有人如何做到这一点？
I call my dad the next day.
第二天我给我爸爸打电话。
I've been freaking out.
我已经吓坏了
My friends are freaking out.
我的朋友们都吓坏了。
It's like the March girls have discovered they have a brother.
就像马奇女孩发现她们有一个兄弟一样。
When I get him on the phone he says, now, listen, Jean-Joe, I put Lizabetha about 80% chance of being mine.
当我给他打电话时，他说，现在，听着，让-乔，我认为丽莎贝莎有 80% 的机会是我的。
But you, I got to put your numbers a lot lower than that.
但是你，我必须把你的数字比这个低很多。
But really, the both of you ought to get DNA tests, because your mother was wild and she was beautiful, and of course, she drank too much.
但说实话，你们俩都应该接受 DNA 测试，因为你的母亲很狂野，而且很漂亮，当然，她喝得太多了。
Dad, what?
爸爸，什么？
I get off the phone and remember, I had done a 23andMe a few years back.
挂断电话后，我记得几年前我曾做过 23andMe。
So I go to the site.
所以我去该网站。
Suddenly, I'm on a side project of proving my father is actually my father.
突然间，我开始了一个副业项目，那就是证明我的父亲确实是我的父亲。
And I click a link I'd never seen before-- view all DNA relatives.
我点击了一个以前从未见过的链接——查看所有 DNA 亲属。
And Ernie the Attorney's face pops up off the screen again, along with his three kids identified as my half nieces and nephew.
律师厄尼的脸再次出现在屏幕上，还有他的三个孩子，他们是我同父异母的侄女和侄子。
I have no idea why confirming Ernest as my brother confirms my father is my father, but it just does.
我不知道为什么确认欧内斯特是我的兄弟就确认了我的父亲就是我的父亲，但事实就是如此。
The question now is, do we contact this sweet-looking, innocent 62-year-old man and overturn everything he believes about his identity?
现在的问题是，我们是否要联系这个外表甜美、天真无邪的62岁男人，推翻他对自己身份的一切认知？
We decide to go for it.
我们决定去做。
And I email him saying, I believe you're my half brother.
我给他发电子邮件说，我相信你是我同父异母的兄弟。
And then Liz and I act like crazy people for the next 24 hours until he emails back.
然后莉兹和我在接下来的 24 小时里表现得像个疯子，直到他回复邮件。
And the next day, we're meeting for the first time on Zoom.
第二天，我们在 Zoom 上第一次见面。
He tells us that his parents got divorced when he was five and there was a big custody battle.
他告诉我们，他的父母在他五岁时离婚，并发生了一场激烈的监护权争夺战。
And when he was 17, his mother, in a fit of boozy despair, blurted out that his father was not his father, that his father was a man named Stephen Darst, who is a writer from St. Louis.
当他17岁的时候，他的母亲在一次醉醺醺的绝望中脱口而出，他的父亲不是他的父亲，他的父亲是一个名叫斯蒂芬·达斯特的人，是一位来自圣路易斯的作家。
And then Ernest, raised by a psychoanalyst, says he considered the information and had no idea what to do with it, and promptly repressed it.
然后，由精神分析师抚养长大的欧内斯特说，他考虑了这些信息，但不知道如何处理它，并立即压抑了它。
And no one ever talked about it after that day.
那天之后就没有人谈论过这件事了。
He says he never thought of it again until I emailed him.
他说，直到我给他发电子邮件之前，他再也没有想过这件事。
One weird coincidence, he tells us that for years, his father dated a woman who lived in Bronxville, New York.
他告诉我们，有一个奇怪的巧合，多年来，他的父亲与一位住在纽约布朗克斯维尔的女人约会。
And they would go visit her all the time in Bronxville, where we lived.
他们经常去我们住的布朗克斯维尔看望她。
We could have run into him at the A&P.
我们可能会在 A&P 遇到他。
The following week, Liz goes to my dad's and helps him get on a Zoom with everybody.
接下来的一周，莉兹去了我父亲家，帮助他与每个人进行 Zoom 交流。
And suddenly, I'm watching my 87-year-old father meet his 62-year-old son.
突然，我看到我 87 岁的父亲遇见了他 62 岁的儿子。
And I'm seeing Ernie get information about his mother from my dad, who remembers absolutely every detail about everything-- the restaurants they went to, how she called her dog Daisy "Desi" in her accent, how every time they would part they would walk about 100 feet in opposite directions, and my father would turn around and yell, hey, Raqui.
我看到厄尼从我父亲那里得到了关于他母亲的信息，他记得所有事情的每一个细节——他们去过的餐馆，她如何用她的口音称呼她的狗黛西“德西”，每次他们分开时，他们都会向相反的方向走大约 100 英尺，而我父亲会转身大喊，嘿，拉奎。
And when she turned around, my dad would make this embracing gesture with his arms.
当她转身时，我父亲会用双臂做出拥抱的动作。
Earnest says to me, it's amazing to talk about my mom with a man who loved her, which Swedish dad did not.
厄内斯特对我说，和一个爱她的男人谈论我的母亲真是太棒了，而瑞典的父亲则不然。
Ernie sends us pictures of Raqui.
厄尼给我们发了拉奎的照片。
She looks like a Panamanian Sophia Loren.
她看起来像巴拿马索菲亚·罗兰。
In fact, Raqui was a lot like my mom.
事实上，拉奎很像我妈妈。
She was beautiful, sort of fancy.
她很漂亮，有点花哨。
Her grandfather was the president of Panama.
她的祖父是巴拿马总统。
She drank too much, smoked too much, and had major depression.
她酗酒、抽烟过多，还患有严重抑郁症。
My dad definitely has a type.
我爸爸肯定有这样的类型。
The whole thing with Ernie was fun and exciting.
和厄尼在一起的整个事情既有趣又令人兴奋。
My sisters and I were talking on the phone all the time, you know, the three of us that are currently speaking to each other.
我和我的姐妹们一直在打电话，你知道，我们三个人目前正在互相通话。
But also what made it so exciting was how together an "adulty" he was.
但更令人兴奋的是，他是一个“成年人”。
He sent me a card with a watercolor drawing of his house in New Orleans on the front, which when I got it, I was like, oh, my God, he's got stationery.
他寄给我一张卡片，正面画着他在新奥尔良的房子的水彩画，当我收到它时，我就想，哦，天哪，他有信纸。
None of us girls have stationery.
我们女孩子都没有文具。
He's decent and caring and even-tempered.
他为人正派、关心他人、脾气温和。
He asks me how I am and how I feel about this or that.
他问我怎么样，对这个或那个感觉如何。
And then he waits for me to answer.
然后他就等着我回答。
He made me Raqui's Panamanian Christmas cookies.
他给我做了拉奎的巴拿马圣诞饼干。
He was kind, not something in great supply in my showboating drinking, dancy family.
他很友善，但在我这个爱喝酒、跳舞的家庭里，他并不多见。
Kind is what my mother would have said about people who couldn't throw a decent cocktail party.
对于那些无法举办像样的鸡尾酒会的人，我母亲会这么说。
People who just weren't with it.
那些不参与其中的人。
I started to feel like this was our chance to be a bona fide loving family.
我开始觉得这是我们成为一个真正充满爱的家庭的机会。
So Liz and I had a plan to throw an 88th birthday party for our dad and lure Ernie and his wife Donna to New York for it.
所以莉兹和我计划为我们的父亲举办一个 88 岁生日派对，并吸引厄尼和他的妻子唐娜来纽约参加。
We never actually said this to each other, but the big question in the air was, is this going to be a real relationship?
我们实际上从未对彼此说过这句话，但最大的问题是，这会是一段真正的关系吗？
Is this just going to be a few Zoom calls, or are we going to get together at holidays with our kids for years to come?
这只是几次 Zoom 通话，还是我们会在未来几年的假期里与孩子们相聚？
We'd get together in person and Liz's backyard to find out.
我们会亲自到莉兹的后院去寻找答案。
You know, no pressure.
你知道，没有压力。
Since Ernie is a lot more normal than we are, after he accepts the invitation to come and meet all of us, Liz and I agree we need to get our curb appeal together, just a light retouching of a few family dramas, just price out some smoke and a few mirrors.
由于厄尼比我们正常得多，在他接受邀请来见我们所有人之后，莉兹和我同意我们需要把我们的遏制吸引力放在一起，只是对一些家庭剧进行轻微的修饰，只是付出一些烟雾和几面镜子。
I mean, should we say mom died of alcoholism in a West Village [BLEEP] with mice running around?
我的意思是，我们应该说妈妈死于酗酒，死在西村[BLEEP]，老鼠到处乱跑吗？
Or should we just say she was a rich girl from St. Louis, who was a champion equestrian and debutante?
或者我们应该说她是来自圣路易斯的富家女，是马术冠军和初次亮相的人？
And do we mention that Amy married a Tunisian man and took off to his family's farm in Tunisia and didn't speak to any of us for eight years but is now back and never really explained any of this to us?
我们是否提到艾米嫁给了一个突尼斯男人，然后去了他家在突尼斯的农场，八年没有和我们任何人说过话，但现在回来了，从未真正向我们解释过这一切？
The real worry though is, of course, my father.
真正担心的当然是我的父亲。
How do we prevent Ernie from seeing that while my father is the ideal person to sit next to at a bar-- funny, a million stories, a truly entertaining charismatic man-- those aren't the most important qualities in a father?
我们如何防止厄尼看到，虽然我的父亲是坐在酒吧旁边的理想人选——有趣、有上百万个故事、一个真正有趣、有魅力的男人——但这些并不是父亲最重要的品质？
He's painfully unaware of other people's needs and feelings.
他痛苦地不知道别人的需要和感受。
And when you really do need him, he's just not able to be there for you in the way that you want him to be.
当你确实需要他时，他却无法以你希望的方式出现在你身边。
Like, when my mother died of a stroke after years of really grim alcoholism, he offered no words of comfort, but instead asked me what we should do with the bloody couch that she died on.
就像，当我母亲在多年严重酗酒后死于中风时，他没有提供任何安慰的话，而是问我我们应该如何处理她死在的血腥沙发上。
Should I go over to mama's and take that bloody couch out of view so you girls don't have to see it?
我是不是应该去妈妈那儿，把那张该死的沙发移到看不见的地方，这样你们女孩们就不用看到它了？
Although, where the hell am I going to drag a bloody couch?
不过，我到底要把一张该死的沙发拖到哪里去？
I'll probably get arrested.
我可能会被捕。
Is seeing that bloody couch going to traumatize you girls, do you think?
你认为看到那张该死的沙发会让你们女孩受到伤害吗？
When I tried to get him to talk about what he was feeling or take some interest in what I was feeling, he wasn't mean about it.
当我试图让他谈论他的感受或对我的感受感兴趣时，他并不刻薄。
He's not a mean person.
他不是一个卑鄙的人。
It's more like he just can't do it, like he'd gently reroute the conversation in a different direction.
更像是他做不到，就像他会轻轻地将谈话转向另一个方向。
Get him on the phone, and within two minutes, he launches into a steroid-fueled monologue about his obsession with the beginnings of the neocon movement or with Russian ballerina Diana Vishneyva.
给他打电话，不到两分钟，他就开始了一场类固醇刺激的独白，讲述了他对新保守主义运动的开端或对俄罗斯芭蕾舞演员戴安娜·维什尼娃的痴迷。
And once he's off and running, there's no interrupting him.
一旦他开始奔跑，就没有人会打扰他。
You just wander in and out of the room with him on speaker, doing your laundry, making dinner, because he can go on forever.
你只需和他一起在房间里进进出出，洗衣服，做晚饭，因为他可以永远继续下去。
You just have to make a decision about when you can no longer go on.
你只需要决定什么时候你不能再继续下去了。
And so I guess I'm worried about Ernie's big day.
所以我想我很担心厄尼的大日子。
The day of the party was extremely humid and buggy in my sister's backyard in Brooklyn.
聚会那天，在我姐姐位于布鲁克林的后院，天气极其潮湿，到处都是马车。
And rain threatened to force us inside, where it would be very cramped.
雨势可能迫使我们进入室内，那里会非常狭窄。
Seeing my father next to Ernie for the first time was mind-bending they looked so much alike.
第一次看到我父亲站在厄尼旁边，真是令人费解，他们看起来如此相似。
After some hugs and pictures, we all sit at the long outside table.
拥抱和合影后，我们都坐在外面的长桌旁。
I'm welling up.
我正在涌泉相报。
I can't imagine how emotional this must be for Ernie.
我无法想象这对厄尼来说有多激动。
His wife Donna is squeezing his hand in support.
他的妻子唐娜紧紧握住他的手以示支持。
I look around the table and wonder, why is Ernie not sitting next to my dad?
我环顾桌子，想知道为什么厄尼没有坐在我爸爸旁边？
Shouldn't my dad have said, Ernie, sit next to me?
我爸爸不应该说，厄尼，坐在我旁边吗？
It's like he forgets he's the dad.
他好像忘记了自己是父亲。
But very quickly, we all get talking and laughing.
但很快，我们大家就开始有说有笑。
And Ernie gives my dad a picture of Raqui for his birthday.
厄尼送给我爸爸一张拉奎的照片作为生日礼物。
And it feels like the whole thing is going great.
感觉整个事情进展顺利。
Then the rain comes down, and we hustle inside, and we're fumbling to get back to that initial connection.
然后雨下来了，我们冲进屋里，摸索着回到最初的联系。
Then the rain stops.
然后雨停了。
And we're back in the yard, eating, drinking.
我们回到院子里，吃东西，喝东西。
Down the table, I see my father, now sitting next to Ernie.
在桌子的另一边，我看到父亲现在坐在厄尼旁边。
But Ernie hasn't said anything for a really long time.
但厄尼已经很长时间没有说话了。
So I know my dad is definitely talking about F.
所以我知道我爸爸肯定在谈论F。
Scott Fitzgerald and his theory that Fitzgerald forced his wife Zelda to have an abortion at the Plaza Hotel in 1922, a topic which has dominated our lives for decades.
斯科特·菲茨杰拉德和他的理论，即菲茨杰拉德于 1922 年强迫妻子塞尔达在广场酒店堕胎，这个话题几十年来一直主导着我们的生活。
For as long as I can remember, it's the number one thing he uses to avoid talking about anything real.
从我记事起，这是他用来避免谈论任何真实事物的第一件事。
When my son was four weeks old, and my husband and I were about to move to California, he said he was stopping by with a present for the baby, which turned out to be some Stilton from Murray's Cheese shop.
当我儿子四个星期大时，我和丈夫正准备搬到加利福尼亚州，他说他顺便给孩子带了一份礼物，结果是穆雷奶酪店的一些斯蒂尔顿奶酪。
And as I hobbled around post c-section, packing our suitcases and breastfeeding the baby, completely about to fall apart, he nibbled on the blue cheese and talked about Zelda Fitzgerald's abortion and its aftermath.
当我在剖腹产后一瘸一拐地收拾行李、给孩子喂奶、快要崩溃时，他啃着蓝纹奶酪，谈论了塞尔达·菲茨杰拉德的堕胎及其后果。
Liz and I had strategized before the party that if he got on Fitzgerald, we would cut him off before it could get going.
莉兹和我在聚会开始前就制定了策略，如果他上了菲茨杰拉德，我们就会在聚会开始之前切断他的联系。
But it's too late now.
但现在已经太晚了。
I'm horrified, because I don't think my dad has asked Ernie anything about him.
我很震惊，因为我认为我爸爸没有问过厄尼任何关于他的事情。
Does he honestly have zero curiosity about this person, this child whom he almost missed entirely?
他真的对这个人、这个他几乎想念的孩子的好奇心为零吗？
Ernie looks bewildered and heartbroken.
厄尼看上去既困惑又心碎。
Watching a 62-year-old man get crushed right in front of me, watching him wait patiently to be seen by a man whose eyes are looking elsewhere, it was like watching my spirit get crushed, like a reenactment.
看着一个62岁的男人在我面前被压垮，看着他耐心地等待一个目光转向别处的男人看到，就像看着我的精神被压垮，就像一场重演。
My father produces a fountain pen that Raqui gave him.
我父亲拿出拉基送给他的一支钢笔。
It's engraved with his initials.
上面刻着他名字的首字母。
Ernest looks really excited.
欧内斯特看起来非常兴奋。
But my father isn't saying, this is for you Ernest.
但我父亲并没有说，这是给你的，欧内斯特。
I want you to have this.
我想要你拥有这个。
We all wait for him to say that.
我们都等着他说这句话。
But instead, he says, now, should I hang on to this and give it to you later or now?
但相反，他说，现在，我应该保留这个并稍后再给你还是现在？
I yell, now, Dad.
我现在就喊，爸爸。
The metal tip is slightly bent.
金属尖端稍微弯曲。
It doesn't work.
这不起作用。
But you have to hand it to my dad for simply not losing it for over half a century.
但你得把它交给我爸爸，因为他半个多世纪都没有丢失它。
He gives it to Ernie.
他把它给了厄尼。
Ernie looks thrilled and says, I know a guy in New Orleans who can fix it.
厄尼看起来很兴奋，说道，我认识一个在新奥尔良的人可以解决这个问题。
In my post-mortem with my dad a few days later, he talks about the food, about my niece's pretty dress, talks about all kinds of things.
几天后，在我和父亲的尸检中，他谈论了食物，谈论了我侄女漂亮的衣服，谈论了各种各样的事情。
But I have to push him really hard to say anything about meeting his son.
但我必须非常努力地逼他说出任何关于见到他儿子的事情。
I'm practically mugging him for an emotion.
我几乎是为了一种情感而抢劫他。
Finally he says, I think I'll have a great relationship with Ernie.
最后他说，我想我会和厄尼建立很好的关系。
And I thank you very much for that, Jean-Joe, for bringing us together.
让-乔，我非常感谢你让我们走到一起。
So much for my dream of Ernie transforming us into a more loving family.
我的梦想就是让厄尼把我们变成一个更有爱的家庭。
Let's be honest.
说实话。
My family is like a long-running production of The Fantasticks, where all the actors are too old for the characters they're playing and the lighting people miss a third of the cues.
我的家庭就像一部长期上演的《幻想曲》，所有演员对于他们所扮演的角色来说都太老了，灯光师错过了三分之一的线索。
But now, there's this one fresh faced kid just out of drama school who brings down the house in every scene.
但现在，这个刚从戏剧学校毕业的新鲜面孔的孩子在每个场景中都引起了轰动。
Ernie sends an email after the party where he describes our family as, having a bond I truly admire, and that he felt included in a way that felt genuine and from the heart.
聚会结束后，厄尼发了一封电子邮件，他形容我们一家人之间有着一种我真正钦佩的纽带，他觉得我们一家人是真诚的、发自内心的。
Wow, Liz says, we really put on a hell of a show.
哇，莉兹说，我们的表演真是太棒了。
And then Liz and I have a Zoom with Ernie, Ernest, Ernest Enrique Svenson.
然后我和莉兹与厄尼、欧内斯特、欧内斯特·恩里克·斯文森进行了 Zoom 会议。
Steve sent me something after the weekend, he says.
史蒂夫在周末后给我发了一些东西，他说。
What, we ask?
我们问什么？
117 page transcript of Zelda and F.
塞尔达传说和 F. 117 页的文字记录
Scott's therapy sessions that Steve hand copied at the Princeton archives.
史蒂夫在普林斯顿档案馆亲手复制了斯科特的治疗课程。
Have you seen it, he asks?
他问，你见过吗？
Oh, Ernie, have we seen it?
哦，厄尼，我们看到了吗？
Yes, we have, we say, not sure how much to give away.
是的，我们说，我们不确定要捐出多少。
He's got a long road ahead.
他的路还很长。
And he's got to walk it just like we did.
他必须像我们一样走下去。
It's pretty interesting, Ernie says.
厄尼说，这很有趣。
Yeah, we say, yeah, it is.
是的，我们说，是的，确实如此。
Jeanne Darst, she's currently developing her book, Fiction Ruined My Family for television.
珍妮·达斯特（Jeanne Darst）目前正在为电视创作她的书《小说毁了我的家庭》。
[MUSIC - MARIAN BURNS, "COMMUNICATION SONG (SONG FOR KIDS)"]
[音乐 - 玛丽安·伯恩斯，“通讯歌曲（儿童歌曲）”]
Well, our program was produced today by Lina Misitzis.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Lina Misitzis 制作的。
The people who put together today's program include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Susan Burton, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Rudy Lee, Tobin Low, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Alix Spiegel, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Laura Starcheski, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, Chloee Weiner, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Susan Burton、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Aviva DeKornfeld、Rudy Lee、Tobin Low、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Alix Spiegel、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Laura Starcheski、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker、Chloee韦纳和黛安·吴。
Our managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our Senior Editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special Thanks today to Alison O'Connor, Jesse David Fox, David Iserson, Chloe Ifshin, Jamie Loftus, Zach Zimmerman, and Guns N' Roses.
今天特别感谢 Alison O'Connor、Jesse David Fox、David Iserson、Chloe Ifshin、Jamie Loftus、Zach Zimmerman 和 Guns N' Roses。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 750 多集档案。
Also, we have videos there.
此外，我们那里还有视频。
We have lists of favorite shows.
我们有最喜欢的节目列表。
We have tons of other stuff.
我们还有很多其他东西。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always, for a program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢该计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, when I applied for this job way back when, I walked into his office, shook his hand, told him my radio name at the time, Bugseyyyy Leroi.
你知道，当我很久以前申请这份工作时，我走进他的办公室，握了握他的手，告诉他我当时的电台名称，Bugseyyyy Leroi。
He looked at my resume, looked at me, looked at my resume, then back at me.
他看了我的简历，看了我，又看了我的简历，然后又看了我一眼。
And said--
并说——
Don't do that.
不要那样做。
Don't spend the whole interview not being yourself.
不要在整个面试中都表现得不是你自己。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。