748: The End of the World as We Know It - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #748 | September 17, 2021 748: The End of the World as We Know It Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 748 集 | 2021 年 9 月 17 日 748：我们所知道的世界末日 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass It's been the kind of summer that makes it seem like the alarmists were right about everything.
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这个夏天让人觉得危言耸听者的一切都是对的。
Heat waves and drought and wildfires across the West, hurricanes along the East Coast drowning people in their cars in New Jersey and in their basement apartments in New York.
西部地区遭遇热浪、干旱和野火，东海岸遭遇飓风，新泽西州的汽车和纽约的地下室公寓中的人们被淹死。
So yeah, climate change is real.
所以，是的，气候变化是真实存在的。
And most Americans believe that is what we're seeing right now.
大多数美国人认为这就是我们现在所看到的情况。
But for most of us, including me, knowing that that is our future-- it doesn't change much for us.
但对于我们大多数人来说，包括我在内，知道这就是我们的未来——这对我们来说并没有太大改变。
It's like knowing that you're going to die someday.
这就像知道你有一天会死一样。
Like, sure.
喜欢，当然。
True.
真的。
And then you put it aside, go on with your day.
然后你就把它放在一边，继续你的一天。
But there are people out there who look at the same evidence that the rest of us do, and they just take it to heart in a way that most of us don't.
但有些人和我们其他人看到的证据是一样的，他们只是以一种我们大多数人不会的方式将其牢记在心。
They have a wake-up moment.
他们有一个觉醒的时刻。
Rebecca Huntley had one.
丽贝卡亨特利有一个。
Totally took her by surprise.
完全让她吃了一惊。
So I'm a really early riser.
所以我真的是一个早起的人。
I'm, like, a 5:30 AM riser, as I think a lot of moms are, because it's sometimes the only time that you have any quiet time.
我喜欢早上 5:30 起床，我想很多妈妈都是这样，因为有时这是你唯一有安静时间的时间。
Everyone is asleep.
每个人都睡着了。
Make the first of 10 coffees that I'll consume that day.
制作我当天要喝的 10 杯咖啡中的第一杯。
Sit on the couch.
坐在沙发上。
Turn the TV on.
打开电视。
And I just see all of these young Australians-- thousands of them-- walking on the streets of Sydney, which is where I live, all of them looking like they could be friends of my oldest daughter.
我看到所有这些年轻的澳大利亚人——成千上万的人——走在我居住的悉尼的街道上，他们看起来都像是我大女儿的朋友。
It was a massive climate strike-- young people skipping school to protest, inspired by Greta Thunberg and her protests.
这是一场大规模的气候罢工——年轻人在格蕾塔·桑伯格和她的抗议活动的启发下逃学抗议。
And they were carrying all these signs, most of them handmade, saying, we can't vote.
他们举着所有这些标语，其中大多数是手工制作的，上面写着，我们不能投票。
We don't have a lot of money.
我们没有很多钱。
We don't have a lot of power, individually, or even as a group.
无论是作为个人，还是作为一个团体，我们都没有太多的权力。
Do something.
做点什么。
She says it felt like they were pleading for action, their generation to hers.
她说，感觉就像他们在恳求采取行动，他们这一代人在向她这一代人恳求。
And the fact that they seemed exactly like her own children-- it just got to her in this way that was new.
事实上，他们看起来和她自己的孩子一模一样——这对她来说是一种新鲜感。
And I realized, actually, these kids are talking directly to me, specifically to me.
我意识到，实际上，这些孩子正在直接与我交谈，特别是与我交谈。
It felt so personal.
感觉很个人化。
And I need to do something.
我需要做点什么。
And something in me shifted at that exact moment.
就在那一刻，我内心的某些东西发生了变化。
And it felt physical.
这感觉是身体上的。
I felt an internal, physical sensation.
我感觉到一种内在的、身体上的感觉。
And even now, as I talk about it-- and I'm not a crier-- I actually well up with tears thinking about it because it was this genuine sense of, I can think about my kids and the things that I do for them every day.
即使是现在，当我谈论这件事时——我不是一个爱哭的人——一想到这件事我就会热泪盈眶，因为这是一种真正的感觉，我可以想到我的孩子以及我每天为他们做的事情。
I make sure they brush their teeth, and I make sure they do their maths homework.
我确保他们刷牙，并确保他们做数学作业。
And this is one of those things.
这就是其中之一。
Suddenly, the fact that we've got a very limited period of time to turn this around-- the scientists talk about 10 years.
突然间，我们扭转局面的时间非常有限——科学家们说是10年。
They talk about 2030.
他们谈论2030年。
So we've got the next decade.
所以我们有下一个十年。
And in the next decade, my youngest kids won't yet have finished high school.
在接下来的十年里，我最小的孩子还没有完成高中学业。
And it just suddenly seemed so extraordinarily urgent, critically important.
它突然显得异常紧急、极其重要。
And I remember finishing my coffee, getting up off the couch.
我记得喝完咖啡，从沙发上站起来。
And I went straight to my study, and I logged into my-- you would describe it as a pension fund, but we call it superannuation.
我直接去了我的书房，登录了我的——你会把它描述为养老基金，但我们称之为退休金。
And within 10 minutes, I'd divested my superannuation completely away from fossil fuels.
不到 10 分钟，我就将我的退休金完全从化石燃料中剥离出来。
And so that was one of hundreds of different things that I started to do from that point on, triggered by that moment.
所以这是我从那时起开始做的数百件不同的事情之一，由那一刻触发。
Rebecca actually talked to one of our producers, Aviva DeKornfeld, who, in the last few months, has interviewed dozens of people who have had these wake-up moments.
丽贝卡实际上与我们的一位制片人阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德（Aviva DeKornfeld）进行了交谈，他在过去的几个月里采访了数十位经历过这些觉醒时刻的人。
Hey, there, Aviva.
嘿，那里，英杰华。
Hey, Ira.
嘿，艾拉。
Ira Glass So these happen in all kinds of different ways, right?
Ira Glass 那么这些会以各种不同的方式发生，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, to all kinds of different people, all of whom actually made a point to tell me they did not consider themselves environmentalists in any way prior to their wake-up moment.
是的，对于各种各样的人来说，他们所有人在醒来之前都特意告诉我，他们并不以任何方式认为自己是环保主义者。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Aviva DeKornfeld Yeah.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德 是的。
It's more like they were just walking around and got bonked on the head, and then everything changed.
更像是他们只是四处走动，头被撞了一下，然后一切都变了。
People describe it like waking up in a bizarro world where everything is the same, but the way they feel about it is totally different.
人们形容它就像在一个奇异的世界中醒来，一切都一样，但他们的感受却完全不同。
The wake-up reorganizes their priorities completely.
醒来后，他们完全重新安排了优先事项。
In fact, lots of support groups have popped up in the past few years to help people deal with the immensity of these new feelings.
事实上，过去几年涌现出许多支持团体来帮助人们应对这些巨大的新感受。
What happened to Rebecca?
丽贝卡怎么了？
Aviva DeKornfeld In Rebecca's case, she totally changed the focus of her career, pivoted it to climate issues.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德 (Aviva DeKornfeld) 就丽贝卡而言，她完全改变了职业生涯的重点，将其重点转向气候问题。
She also cut back on eating meat, decided she needed to get an electric car or have no car.
她还减少了吃肉的量，决定自己需要一辆电动汽车，或者没有汽车。
And those are the kind of things that would affect the rest of her family-- her husband and her kids.
这些事情会影响她的其他家人——她的丈夫和孩子。
And what I found in these interviews is that this is where the trouble comes in for so many people-- when their families haven't undergone the same transformation that they have.
我在这些采访中发现，这就是很多人的麻烦所在——当他们的家庭没有经历与他们相同的转变时。
Right.
正确的。
That makes sense.
这是有道理的。
Aviva DeKornfeld Yeah.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德 是的。
Everyone mentions some version of this.
每个人都提到过这个的某个版本。
Like, this one guy, Glen Schleyer, I talked to-- after his wake-up moment, he tried to convince his whole family-- brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews-- to all see this the way that he now did and to come to climate rallies with him.
就像我采访过的格伦·施莱尔（Glen Schleyer）一样，在他醒来后，他试图说服他的整个家庭——兄弟、姐妹、侄女、侄子——所有人都像他现在那样看待这一问题，并与他一起参加气候集会。
The common reaction that I got was, wow, I didn't know you were so passionate about this environmental stuff.
我得到的普遍反应是，哇，我不知道你对环保这么热衷。
Or, like, you're really into this.
或者，就像，你真的很喜欢这个。
It's really interesting.
这真的很有趣。
It's great.
这很棒。
It's great.
这很棒。
I really support you.
我真的很支持你。
It's great that you're into this.
很高兴您对此感兴趣。
And that was so frustrating to me, because I'm like, I'm not into this.
这让我很沮丧，因为我不喜欢这个。
It's just what's happening.
这就是正在发生的事情。
It's like, if there was a truck barreling toward us, and I was trying to get us out of the way, you wouldn't be like, wow, you're super passionate about trucks.
就好像，如果有一辆卡车向我们冲来，而我试图让我们让开，你就不会说，哇，你对卡车超级热情。
I just didn't know you're so into trucks.
我只是不知道你这么喜欢卡车。
Was this always a thing?
这一直都是一件事吗？
I think it's really great that you have this interest.
我认为你有这种兴趣真是太好了。
It's like, no, this is just what's happening.
就好像，不，这就是正在发生的事情。
So I was like, do you just keep running back and forth, yelling at people?
所以我就想，你是不是一直跑来跑去，对别人大喊大叫？
Do you ruin your relationships?
你会破坏你的人际关系吗？
And I realized that I was potentially impacting relationships that are the most important thing to me in the world for no benefit.
我意识到我可能会影响人际关系，而这对我来说是世界上最重要的事情，但没有带来任何好处。
No benefit because?
没有好处，因为？
Glen Schleyer Because it wasn't changing anyone's mind.
Glen Schleyer 因为它没有改变任何人的想法。
It wasn't working.
它不起作用。
So Glen decided to leave his family alone.
于是格伦决定离开他的家人。
But other people told me that they couldn't back off in the same way, and it's had a huge impact on some of their closest relationships.
但其他人告诉我，他们不能以同样的方式退缩，这对他们一些最亲密的关系产生了巨大的影响。
And that actually brings us to today's program.
这实际上让我们进入了今天的节目。
The idea for our show today came from Aviva's interest in these families where one person sees something that feels big and important and urgent, and they try to bring everybody along, and it is just bad for everyone.
我们今天节目的想法来自英杰华对这些家庭的兴趣，在这些家庭中，一个人看到一件感觉重大、重要和紧急的事情，他们试图让每个人都参与进来，但这对每个人来说都是坏事。
We have one story like that, plus a story about a surprisingly effective way to deal with the problems of the world, large and small.
我们有一个这样的故事，还有一个关于处理世界上大大小小的问题的令人惊讶的有效方法的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, 1.5 Degrees of Separation.
第一幕，1.5 度分离。
So Aviva was interested in the toll that having a wake-up moment like this could have on a family.
因此，Aviva 对这样的醒来时刻可能给家庭造成的损失很感兴趣。
And she heard about somebody who had a moment like this over a decade ago.
她听说十多年前有人经历过这样的时刻。
And it led him to quit his job, dedicate his life to activism.
这导致他辞去了工作，将一生奉献给激进主义。
He tried to pull his family into it.
他试图将他的家人拉入其中。
And what unfolded was the most extreme example of things going badly in a family that Aviva heard of.
发生的事情是英杰华所听说的一个家庭中最糟糕的例子。
It pretty much destroyed his family.
这几乎摧毁了他的家庭。
He ended up estranged from them.
他最终与他们疏远了。
The guy is named Michael Foster.
这个人名叫迈克尔·福斯特。
And when Aviva reached out and asked him if he would talk about how his climate activism had damaged his relationship with his wife and children, he was totally up for it.
当英杰华联系他并询问他是否愿意谈论他的气候活动如何损害了他与妻子和孩子的关系时，他完全同意了。
But he told Aviva that he thought his kids' side of the story was actually more important than his.
但他告诉英杰华，他认为孩子的故事实际上比他的更重要。
He thought it was crucial that she talked to them, which, of course, Aviva wanted to do.
他认为她与他们交谈至关重要，当然，英杰华也想这么做。
Both children are now young adults.
两个孩子现在都已经是年轻人了。
They were glad to talk.
他们很高兴交谈。
What happened in their family is not necessarily typical of climate activists.
他们家里发生的事情并不一定是气候活动家的典型经历。
Mike's activism shifted the whole center of gravity of their family in ways that are definitely particular to his personality.
迈克的激进主义以他的个性所特有的方式转移了整个家庭的重心。
But the immense "end of the world" stakes of the issue were what sent Mike and his wife Malinda and their kids down the path they went.
但这个问题的巨大“世界末日”风险却让迈克和他的妻子马琳达以及他们的孩子走上了他们所走的路。
Here's Aviva.
这是英杰华。
Mike and Malinda were never the kind of couple who saw eye-to-eye on the big stuff.
迈克和马琳达从来都不是那种在大事上看法一致的夫妻。
They met when they were in high school in Texas.
他们是在德克萨斯州上高中时认识的。
They both did speech and debate and would see one another at the competitions, though they weren't really friends.
他们都进行演讲和辩论，并且会在比赛中见面，尽管他们并不是真正的朋友。
Mike, who was an evangelical Christian at the time, carried a Bible everywhere and led prayer circles before the tournaments, while Malinda and her friends would smoke weed out back.
迈克当时是一名福音派基督徒，他到处都带着一本《圣经》，并在比赛前带领祈祷圈，而马琳达和她的朋友们则在后面抽大麻。
His story is that the first time he really remembers meeting me was when he had just finished leading a prayer circle.
他的故事是，他第一次真正记得见到我是在他刚刚完成一个祈祷圈的时候。
And he met me.
他遇见了我。
And I had a button.
我有一个按钮。
This was back when you wore buttons.
这还是你戴纽扣的时候的事。
And it said "not saved." And his mind just melted that someone would proudly wear a not-saved button.
上面写着“未保存”。他的心融化了，有人会自豪地佩戴未保存的纽扣。
That's my story.
这就是我的故事。
How dare she tell my story.
她怎么敢讲我的故事。
My mind melted.
我的心融化了。
I didn't know that there were people out there who could just be happy and funny and saying, yeah, I'm not saved.
我不知道有人会很高兴、很有趣，然后说，是的，我没有得救。
Each felt like the other was this kind of exotic bird or something-- totally foreign to them but also mesmerizing.
每个人都觉得对方是某种奇异的鸟类或某种东西——对他们来说完全陌生，但又令人着迷。
And so when they went to the same college nearby, they started dating.
因此，当他们去了附近的同一所大学时，他们开始约会。
Mike was no longer an evangelical Christian at that point.
那时迈克不再是福音派基督徒。
But Malinda says their relationship was still very rom-com, opposites attract.
但马琳达表示，他们的关系仍然非常浪漫，异性相吸。
They broke up and got back together all throughout college and then found each other again in their late 20s.
他们在大学期间分手又复合，然后在二十多岁的时候再次相遇。
At that point, Mike was a child and family therapist, taking kids to the outdoors to do a kind of wilderness therapy.
那时，迈克是一名儿童和家庭治疗师，带孩子们到户外进行一种荒野疗法。
And Malinda had a corporate job, was making good money.
马琳达在一家公司工作，赚了很多钱。
So we were together for a few years.
所以我们在一起了几年。
He had asked me to marry him a few times.
他曾多次向我求婚。
And I was like, I don't think it's a good idea for us to get married.
我当时想，我不认为我们结婚是个好主意。
We're just too different.
我们只是太不同了。
But Mike felt familiar in a way that only first loves can.
但迈克感觉很熟悉，只有初恋才能做到。
So eventually, Malinda said yes to Mike's proposal.
最终，马琳达同意了迈克的提议。
They got married, had two kids, Emrys and Stella, lived in Seattle.
他们结婚了，育有两个孩子，埃姆里斯和斯特拉，住在西雅图。
At this point, climate change wasn't a big part of their lives beyond the basic stuff.
此时，除了基本生活之外，气候变化还不是他们生活的重要组成部分。
We were really green.
我们真的很环保。
We were your cartoon green Seattle family.
我们是卡通绿色西雅图家庭。
So whatever stereotype you have, that was what we were doing.
所以无论你有什么刻板印象，这就是我们正在做的事情。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
They recycled, composted.
他们回收、堆肥。
They used energy-efficient light bulbs.
他们使用节能灯泡。
And then one day, Mike heard about this new documentary he wanted to go see--
然后有一天，迈克听说了一部他想去看的新纪录片——
[APPLAUSE] Al Gore I am Al Gore.
[掌声]阿尔·戈尔 我是阿尔·戈尔。
I used to be the next president of the United States of America.
我曾经是美利坚合众国的下一任总统。
[LAUGHTER, CHEERING] Aviva DeKornfeld --An Inconvenient Truth.
[笑声、欢呼] Aviva DeKornfeld——难以忽视的真相。
Mike convinced Malinda to go see it with him for their date night.
迈克说服玛琳达在约会之夜和他一起去看。
Sitting there in the dark, Mike felt like Al Gore had taken all the dots of information about climate change that Mike had picked up over the past couple decades and arranged them into a pointillist painting of our future.
坐在黑暗中，迈克觉得阿尔·戈尔已经把过去几十年来收集到的有关气候变化的所有信息点都整理成了一幅描绘我们未来的点彩画。
And the picture was grimmer and more dramatic than he thought.
事情比他想象的更严峻、更戏剧化。
And then at the end of it, it has the credits roll.
最后，它有制作人员名单。
And during the credits, it will, on this black screen, have these little white letters that say things like, plant a tree.
在片尾字幕中，黑色的屏幕上会出现这些白色的小字母，上面写着“种一棵树”之类的内容。
Change your light bulbs.
更换灯泡。
Drive less.
少开车。
And that's it, right?
就是这样，对吧？
So you've just spent an hour and a half learning that the world is ending, and nobody is doing anything, and you're supposed to plant a tree.
所以你刚刚花了一个半小时了解到世界正在终结，没有人做任何事情，你应该种一棵树。
So there was this major, major disconnect of, wait a minute.
所以这就出现了重大的重大脱节，等等。
That's not going to do it.
那是不行的。
That's not even close.
那还差得远。
Before the documentary, Mike thought we had time.
在观看纪录片之前，迈克认为我们有时间。
Now it seemed clear to him we were just a few decades away from a radically different planet.
现在他似乎很清楚我们距离一个完全不同的星球只有几十年的时间了。
Mike started poring over climate research, reading every day.
迈克开始钻研气候研究，每天阅读。
He traveled to California to go to a training led by Al Gore himself, where he learned to give a slideshow about climate change.
他前往加利福尼亚州参加阿尔·戈尔本人领导的培训，在那里他学会了制作有关气候变化的幻灯片。
When he came back from the training, Mike showed his kids the slideshow and presented it at their schools.
当迈克从培训回来后，向他的孩子们展示了幻灯片并在他们的学校进行了展示。
Emrys, Mike's older kid, who, by the way, uses the pronouns they/them, remembers being excited by that.
顺便说一句，迈克的大孩子埃姆里斯（Emrys）使用代词“他们/他们”，他记得对此感到兴奋。
And this was in 2012.
那是在2012年。
Emrys was 10 at the time.
埃默里斯当时 10 岁。
It felt like minor celebrity status, right?
感觉就像小名人的地位，对吧？
Because my dad was a guest speaker.
因为我爸爸是演讲嘉宾。
And I needed everyone to know that that was my dad.
我需要每个人都知道那是我的父亲。
It's like, you know the presentation we're having today?
就像，你知道我们今天的演讲吗？
Yeah, my dad is doing that.
是的，我爸爸就是这么做的。
Or, like, I heard that my dad is going to be coming next week to do a presentation in class.
或者，就像，我听说我爸爸下周要来课堂上做演讲。
Mike and his kids start climate clubs at their schools.
迈克和他的孩子们在学校创办了气候俱乐部。
Mike also teaches Emrys and Stella the slideshow, and they all start going around to teach it together.
迈克还教 Emrys 和 Stella 幻灯片放映，他们开始一起到处教。
Both kids threw themselves into the work.
两个孩子都全身心投入到工作中。
For Emrys, the importance of the topic immediately resonated.
对于 Emrys 来说，这个话题的重要性立即引起了共鸣。
But Stella, who's eight, had a much simpler reason.
但八岁的斯特拉有一个简单得多的理由。
It was a way for me to get his attention.
这是我引起他注意的一种方式。
If I asked a question, he would be paying attention to just me rather than the family, which I guess is selfish.
如果我问问题，他就会只关注我而不是家人，我认为这是自私的。
But at the time, I was like, Dad, look over here.
但当时我就想，爸爸，看这里。
I can ask questions about climate change.
我可以问有关气候变化的问题。
I'm smart.
我很聪明。
News of Mike's slideshow spread, and he started being invited to present at other schools.
迈克的幻灯片的消息传开了，他开始被邀请到其他学校做演讲。
Pretty early on, Mike decided that kids were the answer.
迈克很早就认定孩子就是答案。
His activism would focus on them.
他的行动将集中在他们身上。
That was already his specialty as a therapist.
这已经是他作为治疗师的专长了。
And he figured, children have the most at stake here.
他认为，孩子们在这里面临的风险最大。
They're open to the message.
他们对这个消息持开放态度。
And adults will be able to hear the science from them differently than they'll hear it from other adults.
成年人从他们那里听到的科学知识将不同于从其他成年人那里听到的科学知识。
So Mike's first big step down that path-- he organized a march with a national kid-centered climate group called I Matter.
因此，迈克沿着这条道路迈出了重要的一步——他与一个名为“I Matter”的全国性以儿童为中心的气候组织一起组织了一次游行。
He says the Seattle police gave the marchers a 14-motorcycle escort to Pike Place Market.
他说，西雅图警方派遣了 14 辆摩托车护送游行者前往派克市场。
Emrys and Stella both spoke at the march.
埃姆里斯和斯特拉都在游行中发表了讲话。
Emrys said they'd never talked in front of so many people before.
埃姆里斯说，他们以前从未在这么多人面前讲话过。
He helped me write my speech, and he had me practice it a ton.
他帮助我写演讲稿，并让我大量练习。
I was super excited to speak there because everybody's attention was on me.
我非常兴奋能在那里演讲，因为每个人的注意力都集中在我身上。
Stella, the younger one, found all the attention a little overwhelming.
年轻的斯特拉发现所有的关注都有点让人不知所措。
The main thing I remember was looking at my dad to focus my gaze.
我记得最重要的事情就是看着我的父亲来集中我的目光。
To steady you.
来稳定你。
Stella Yeah.
史黛拉 是的。
And I really looked at him to not freak out.
我真的看着他，以免惊慌失措。
In this speech and all the ones after it, Emrys says that Mike gave each of them specific roles to fill, roles that Emrys says they naturally fit into.
埃姆里斯说，在这次演讲以及之后的所有演讲中，迈克给了他们每个人特定的角色来填补，埃姆里斯说他们自然适合这些角色。
Stella was the one that would make the audience go, oh my gosh.
斯特拉是那个能让观众为之动容的人，天哪。
She's so cute.
她真可爱。
Hi.
你好。
I'm Stella Foster, and I'm nine years old.
我是斯特拉·福斯特，今年九岁。
And then I was the one who was supposed to make the audience go, like, oh, OK.
然后我就是那个让观众感动的人，就像，哦，好吧。
Wow.
哇。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
It was like a one-two punch.
这就像一拳二拳。
Like, Stella disarmed them, and then you went in for the kill.
就像，斯特拉解除了他们的武装，然后你就开始杀人。
Yeah.
是的。
[CHUCKLES] Basically, yeah.
[笑] 基本上，是的。
I think I was a little bit supposed to scare people.
我想我有点应该吓唬别人。
We just need the adults to get their acts together and realize that each year they wait is 30 more years of floods, fires, droughts, famines, and extinctions.
我们只需要成年人齐心协力，认识到他们每年等待的就是三十年以上的洪水、火灾、干旱、饥荒和物种灭绝。
For Malinda, watching Mike and the kids give speeches and spend so much time together-- it was really nice.
对于马琳达来说，看着迈克和孩子们发表演讲并花这么多时间在一起——这真的很棒。
They're having fun and working on something that felt so important.
他们正在享受乐趣并致力于一些感觉如此重要的事情。
She wasn't around much to help.
她并没有提供太多帮助。
She had a big job at a telecommunications company that kept her busy and on the road a lot of the time.
她在一家电信公司有一份重要的工作，这让她很忙，而且很多时间都在路上。
But she jumped in where she could.
但她尽可能地跳了进去。
She made a website for Mike and did a lot of the behind-the-scenes logistics stuff she's good at.
她为迈克制作了一个网站，并做了很多她擅长的幕后后勤工作。
Mike got more ambitious and brought the kids along.
迈克变得更加雄心勃勃，并带着孩子们一起去。
They started organizing for Plant-for-the-Planet, a kid-run organization with a goal of planting a trillion trees.
他们开始组织“为地球植树”，这是一个由儿童经营的组织，目标是种植一万亿棵树。
The whole family recruited friends to join.
全家人都招募了朋友来参加。
Mike quit his job to focus on climate work.
迈克辞去了工作，专注于气候工作。
Emrys and Stella met the governor and the mayor.
埃姆里斯和斯特拉会见了州长和市长。
They were lead plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the state of Washington to curb emissions.
他们是针对华盛顿州限制排放诉讼的主要原告。
They were in an HBO documentary about kid climate activists.
他们出现在 HBO 一部关于儿童气候活动家的纪录片中。
But none of that stuff felt like enough to Mike.
但迈克觉得这些都不够。
He was thinking more about the way he and the family were living at home.
他更多地考虑的是他和家人在家里的生活方式。
Malinda and I had an agreement.
马琳达和我达成了协议。
I was the vegetarian.
我是素食主义者。
I was the one doing the "make the world better" stuff.
我是那个致力于“让世界变得更美好”的人。
And she was the one who was working at the corporate giant, paying the bills.
她是在这家企业巨头工作、支付账单的人。
And I was fine with that.
我对此很满意。
But when I'm doing these climate talks-- and I mean, like, one day would be five talks-- and I'm hearing myself going over this material and really grasping at what I'm saying, it became harder for me to be OK with the trip to Hawaii.
但当我进行这些气候会谈时——我的意思是，一天会进行五场会谈——我听到自己在仔细阅读这些材料并真正掌握我所说的内容，对我来说，夏威夷之行变得越来越难以接受。
Harder for Mike to be OK because airplanes emit so much carbon dioxide.
迈克很难康复，因为飞机排放大量二氧化碳。
So I went out on a limb.
所以我就孤注一掷了。
And I was like, this has no integrity for me anymore.
我当时想，这对我来说不再有诚信了。
I can't just go along with our agreement.
我不能只是遵守我们的协议。
Other people I talked to who went through a wake-up moment-- they also got to this point.
我采访过的其他经历过觉醒时刻的人——他们也到了这一点。
They came to believe that we have to change our behavior in all kinds of ways to avoid the worst-case scenarios.
他们开始相信我们必须以各种方式改变我们的行为以避免最坏的情况。
And we have to do that knowing individual action won't be enough.
我们必须做到这一点，知道个人行动是不够的。
One family driving an electric car or giving up plastic straws isn't going to do the job.
一个家庭驾驶电动汽车或放弃塑料吸管是无法完成这项工作的。
Any serious climate solution will require an overhaul of our energy sources at a global level.
任何严肃的气候解决方案都需要在全球范围内对我们的能源进行彻底改革。
But it'll also require us to live differently.
但这也要求我们以不同的方式生活。
Without that, the situation won't change.
没有这个，情况就不会改变。
And that's where things get messy-- deciding where to draw the line in your own family.
这就是事情变得混乱的地方——决定在你自己的家庭中划清界限。
The kids really wanted to get a cat.
孩子们真的很想养一只猫。
And I was like, well, I grew up with pets.
我当时想，好吧，我是和宠物一起长大的。
I think that'd be great.
我认为那太好了。
And he said, no, we can't do that.
他说，不，我们不能那样做。
And I'm trying to understand why.
我试图理解为什么。
He says, the carbon footprint of a domesticated house pet are ridiculous.
他说，家养宠物的碳足迹是荒谬的。
That is, all the processed meat the pets eat, and the cans and plastic the food comes in, plus cat litter, dog toys, trips to the vet.
也就是说，宠物吃的所有加工肉类，以及食品的罐头和塑料，再加上猫砂、狗玩具、去看兽医。
We're not going to support that.
我们不会支持这一点。
There cannot be pets in this house.
这所房子里不能养宠物。
The family ended up settling on getting chickens, which turned out to be a good compromise because the kids loved the chickens.
这家人最终决定养鸡，结果证明这是一个很好的妥协，因为孩子们喜欢鸡。
And Mike was happy the chickens produced eggs, because it meant they wouldn't be supporting factory farms that produce supermarket eggs.
迈克很高兴鸡能产蛋，因为这意味着它们不会支持生产超市鸡蛋的工厂化农场。
But flying on planes became a real point of contention in the family.
但乘坐飞机成为了家庭中真正的争论焦点。
Malinda wanted to take the kids to Disney World for vacation.
马琳达想带孩子们去迪士尼世界度假。
He's like, we're not going.
他说，我们不去。
We're not?
我们不是吗？
He's like, no, we're never getting on a plane again.
他说，不，我们再也不会坐飞机了。
We're not?
我们不是吗？
I missed that memo.
我错过了那份备忘录。
What?
什么？
What?
什么？
And I made the mistake of saying, but I fly for work.
我错误地说，但我是为了工作而飞行。
And he was like, exactly.
他就像，完全一样。
And maybe if you didn't fly, the world would be a better place.
也许如果你不飞，世界会变得更美好。
To Mike, flying felt like an existential threat to his kids' futures and to everyone's.
对于迈克来说，飞行感觉像是对他孩子和每个人的未来的生存威胁。
It was unbearable for me to continue doing the things that were going to make their life impossible-- actually impossible-- in the near future.
我无法忍受继续做那些会让他们的生活在不久的将来变得不可能——实际上是不可能的事情。
At the time, did you have any doubts about the lifestyle changes you were making?
当时，您对自己正在做出的生活方式改变有任何疑问吗？
Because you're having to balance really believing in the cause and also accepting that you're a dad with two kids.
因为你必须在真正相信这一事业和接受你是一个有两个孩子的父亲之间取得平衡。
And maybe one pet doesn't actually make that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things, but it does make a really big difference in my kids' lives.
也许一只宠物实际上并没有对事物的宏伟计划产生那么大的影响，但它确实对我孩子的生活产生了很大的影响。
How did you balance that?
你是如何平衡这一点的？
That was really impossible to balance because I'm not talking about a cause, because I'm talking about their survival and the things they're going to suffer when they get older.
这确实是不可能平衡的，因为我不是在谈论一个原因，而是在谈论他们的生存以及他们变老后将要遭受的事情。
So anyway, so I'm sorry.
所以无论如何，我很抱歉。
I'm getting into the preaching mode, and we're trying to talk family here.
我正在进入讲道模式，我们正在尝试在这里谈论家庭。
But to me, it's the same thing.
但对我来说，这是同一件事。
So Malinda kept flying for work, but nobody else flew.
因此马林达继续飞行上班，但没有其他人飞行。
And Malinda didn't like all these changes.
马琳达不喜欢所有这些变化。
But she didn't disagree, exactly.
但她并不完全不同意。
Climate change is a noble cause.
气候变化是一项崇高的事业。
That was what I was telling myself.
这就是我告诉自己的。
This is for the world.
这是为了世界。
This is for a better future for my children and their children.
这是为了我的孩子和他们的孩子有一个更美好的未来。
Why am I being such a bitch about it?
为什么我对此如此恶毒？
One of the biggest ways climate activism changed this family is that it turned Mike into a kind of stage dad, performing with his kids all the time, with all the tension and friction that comes with that.
气候行动主义改变这个家庭的最大方式之一是，它把迈克变成了一位舞台爸爸，一直和他的孩子们一起表演，伴随着随之而来的紧张和摩擦。
It was especially intense because Mike's climate work was all about kids, so he needed his kids to be the face of it.
气氛特别紧张，因为迈克的气候工作都是关于孩子的，所以他需要他的孩子成为这件事的代言人。
Here's Emrys.
这是埃姆里斯。
I started having issues with my dad when it was-- he started feeling more like a coach than a dad.
我开始和我父亲产生矛盾——他开始感觉自己更像是一名教练而不是父亲。
And he was just bringing more and more and more things.
他只是带来了越来越多的东西。
It's like, I would wake up in the morning, and he would be like, we're leaving in two hours.
就像，我早上醒来，他会说，我们两个小时后就要离开。
There's a presentation.
有一个演示。
Here's your notes.
这是你的笔记。
You have to speak.
你必须说话。
Write a speech now.
现在写一篇演讲稿。
Emrys had always liked giving speeches, liked writing them.
埃默里斯一直喜欢发表演讲，也喜欢撰写演讲。
But Mike wanted to see their speeches ahead of time and practice, and would get angry if they didn't let him, and get mad afterwards if he thought they didn't hit the right points.
但迈克想提前看他们的演讲并练习，如果他们不让他听，他会生气；如果他认为他们没有击中要点，他会在事后生气。
In front of crowds, Mike was always complimentary of their speeches.
在人群面前，迈克总是对他们的演讲表示赞赏。
It's like, if you're in a theater production, and the director gives a talk after the show or something.
就像，如果你在制作一部戏剧，导演在演出结束后发表演讲或其他什么。
I was the actor.
我是演员。
I played my little part.
我扮演了我的小角色。
And then he would come out and be like, oh, I'm so proud.
然后他会出来说，哦，我很自豪。
They did an amazing job.
他们做得非常出色。
My name is Michael Foster, and I am a proud papa right now.
我的名字是迈克尔·福斯特，我现在是一名自豪的爸爸。
[CHUCKLING] I don't know what to say.
[咯咯笑]我不知道该说什么。
They blow me away every single time.
他们每次都让我震惊。
And then once the audience leaves, it's time for notes.
观众离开后，就到了做笔记的时间。
Once they're not looking, then you talk about what you did wrong and everything that you have to do better next time, to put it politely.
一旦他们不看，你就可以礼貌地谈论你做错了什么以及下次你必须做得更好的事情。
Since Malinda was off working so much at the time, supporting the family, she had no real sense that, increasingly, this had become Emrys and Mike's dynamic until, one day, the kids had a speech far outside of town.
由于马琳达当时为了养家糊口而大量外出工作，她并没有真正意识到这已逐渐成为埃默里和迈克的动力，直到有一天，孩子们在城外很远的地方举行了一场演讲。
Malinda drove the family to and from the speech since she had a hybrid car, and Mike's electric car couldn't make it that far.
马琳达开车送家人往返演讲，因为她有一辆混合动力汽车，而迈克的电动汽车无法开那么远。
Emrys had given a speech.
埃默里斯发表了讲话。
And I thought it was brilliant.
我认为这太棒了。
I'm the mom.
我是妈妈。
And we got in the car, and I was driving.
我们上了车，我开车。
And Mike was in the seat next to me, and the kids were in the back.
迈克坐在我旁边的座位上，孩子们坐在后面。
And he was yelling because Emrys hadn't let him read the speech before they gave it.
他之所以大喊大叫，是因为埃姆里斯在他们发表演讲之前没有让他读演讲稿。
And he was saying, you should have let me read that speech before, because I would have told you at the time.
他说，你应该让我之前读那个演讲，因为我当时就会告诉你。
I would have told you that you were missing these points.
我会告诉你你忽略了这些要点。
And goddammit.
该死的。
If you had let me see that, you would have done a better job.
如果你让我看到这一点，你会做得更好。
You missed your opportunity.
你错过了机会。
You fucked it up, and you missed your opportunity.
你搞砸了，你错过了机会。
And I'm driving, going, whoa.
我正在开车，走，哇。
So let me just say, I thought it was great.
所以我只想说，我认为这很棒。
Well, what do you know?
那么，你知道什么？
You don't even listen half the time.
你甚至有一半时间都不听。
And I was like, whoa.
我当时想，哇。
Looking back, Malinda points to this moment as one of her failures, that she let her kids give speeches after this.
回想起来，马琳达指出这一刻是她的失败之一，她让她的孩子们在这之后发表演讲。
But at the time, Mike was so confident in what was right.
但当时，迈克对正确的事情充满信心。
And Malinda didn't trust the feeling that told her otherwise.
马琳达不相信这种感觉告诉她的并非如此。
So I'd-- like, well, maybe this is their dynamic.
所以我想，好吧，也许这就是他们的动力。
Maybe this is how they communicate, that they flare up, and they-- not that the kids ever yelled, but maybe Mike yells.
也许这就是他们交流的方式，他们会爆发，而且他们——不是孩子们大喊大叫，但也许是迈克大喊大叫。
But maybe that's how it works, because the next day, they're working on it again.
但也许这就是它的工作原理，因为第二天，他们又开始工作了。
And he's a family therapist, or child therapist.
他是一名家庭治疗师或儿童治疗师。
And he's a child and family therapist.
他是一名儿童和家庭治疗师。
So there's that hanging over my head, too, of, he knows.
所以这也悬在我的头上，他知道。
He's the expert.
他是专家。
This is just the beginning of their family breaking apart.
这只是他们家庭破裂的开始。
And one of the reasons Mike was eager to speak with me is because he feels pretty in the dark about what happened, what split his family up and left his kids so bitter that, at this point, they haven't spoken to him in years.
迈克渴望与我交谈的原因之一是，他对所发生的事情感到很茫然，是什么导致了他的家庭破裂，并让他的孩子们如此痛苦，以至于他们已经很多年没有和他说过话了。
He doesn't get what he could have done that was so bad his family still wants nothing to do with him.
他不明白自己本可以做些什么，这太糟糕了，他的家人仍然不想与他有任何关系。
He said he feels like he's in an Agatha Christie novel.
他说他感觉自己就像在阿加莎·克里斯蒂的小说中。
He knows he's the killer.
他知道他就是凶手。
He just has no idea how he did it.
他只是不知道他是怎么做到的。
When we spoke, Mike never contested anyone's memories of what went down.
当我们交谈时，迈克从未质疑过任何人对所发生事情的记忆。
He told me, if they said it, I believe it.
他告诉我，如果他们这么说，我就相信。
He knows he has a temper.
他知道他有脾气。
Malinda said he's always had one.
马林达说他一直有一个。
In college, he'd have blow-ups, though she always knew how to calm him down.
在大学里，他会发脾气，尽管她总是知道如何让他平静下来。
But Mike and Malinda and the kids all agree-- the outbursts ramped up considerably after Mike got into climate activism.
但迈克、马琳达和孩子们都同意——在迈克参与气候活动后，这种情绪的爆发大大加剧。
Malinda said he was never physically violent with her or the kids.
马琳达说，他从未对她或孩子们进行过身体暴力。
But the frequency and the focus of the blow-ups changed.
但爆炸的频率和焦点发生了变化。
I would just go from, like, 0 to 90, and you would not see it coming.
我只是从 0 到 90，你不会看到它的到来。
And all of a sudden, it was like, inside me, it felt like, OK, the world is going to end because of this, [CHUCKLES] right?
突然间，我内心感觉，好吧，世界将因此而终结，[笑]对吧？
Because climate?
因为气候？
Michael Foster Because of something somebody did or said or whatever.
迈克尔·福斯特 因为某人做了或说过的事或其他什么。
Like, if we can't-- if our family, or you and me, can't do this one simple thing, then how does the world get to remain living, right?
就像，如果我们不能——如果我们的家人，或者你和我，不能做这一件简单的事情，那么世界如何继续生存，对吧？
Because we're--
因为我们是——
Yeah.
是的。
Sometimes it would just be like, OK, we-- I am this person who's in this role, trying to say, here's how we get to live on Earth for the next 10,000 years.
有时，我们会说，好吧，我们——我就是扮演这个角色的人，试图说，这就是我们未来一万年在地球上生活的方式。
And I can't persuade my family to let go of the Starbucks cup or whatever the thing was at the moment.
我无法说服我的家人放弃星巴克杯子或其他任何东西。
OK, so then the world ends.
好吧，那么世界就结束了。
That's what it actually felt like to you.
这就是你的真实感受。
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld More than once, Mike called Stella a fucking bitch and a cunt.
艾维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 (Aviva DeKornfeld) 迈克不止一次地称斯特拉是个该死的婊子和混蛋。
Stella said before Mike got into climate activism, he would yell at her about the kind of stuff any parent might-- for lying about brushing her teeth or staying up late past bedtime.
斯特拉说，在迈克从事气候活动之前，他会对她大喊大叫，就像任何父母都会做的那样——因为她在刷牙或熬夜上撒谎。
But in those instances, Stella knew her dad still loved her.
但在那些情况下，斯特拉知道她的父亲仍然爱她。
Now, she worried about that.
现在，她却担心这个。
I had a good father for years before the climate change started.
在气候变化开始之前，我有一个好父亲很多年。
There were flaws.
有缺陷。
But it was only once it was climate change, where he put so much of himself into it and wanted me to put so much of myself into it, that I really got the feeling that his love was completely conditional.
但只有在气候变化问题上，他投入了如此多的精力，也希望我投入如此多的精力，我才真正感觉到他的爱是完全有条件的。
Stella remembers when she realized she was over climate activism.
斯特拉记得当她意识到自己已经厌倦了气候行动主义时。
It was her nine and a half birthday.
这是她九岁半的生日。
They celebrate half birthdays in their family.
他们在家里庆祝半岁生日。
And in celebration, they'd planned a dinner at one of Stella's favorite restaurants.
为了庆祝，他们计划在斯特拉最喜欢的餐厅之一吃一顿晚餐。
But before they left the house, something happened to set Mike off, and he started ranting about the state of the world.
但在他们离开家之前，发生了一些事情让迈克很生气，他开始咆哮世界的现状。
Stella said that when her dad got into climate-talk mode, there was nothing to do but listen.
斯特拉说，当她父亲进入气候对话模式时，除了倾听之外别无他法。
15 minutes ticked by, then 30, then 45.
15 分钟过去了，然后是 30 分钟，然后是 45 分钟。
I just remember thinking, like, I just want to talk about what we did at school today.
我只记得我当时想，我只想谈谈我们今天在学校做了什么。
I want to talk about this cat I saw on the walk home.
我想谈谈我在回家的路上看到的这只猫。
I want to talk on my half birthday-- and feeling like it was not an option for me to talk, because he was talking.
我想在我的半岁生日那天说话——但感觉我不能说话，因为他在说话。
Stella never told anyone she wanted to quit activism, because deep down, she felt like she had this personal responsibility to stop climate change.
斯特拉从未告诉任何人她想退出激进主义，因为在内心深处，她觉得自己有责任阻止气候变化。
Secretly, Emrys was feeling the same way.
私下里，埃默里斯也有同样的感觉。
The more I started realizing that I didn't want to do it, the worse a person I was.
我越开始意识到我不想这样做，我这个人就越糟糕。
Like, horrible things are going to happen to people because I'm not willing to do this.
就像，可怕的事情会发生在人们身上，因为我不愿意这样做。
It felt like I was the worst person in the world.
感觉就像我是世界上最糟糕的人。
It was all guilt all the time, and fear.
一直以来都是愧疚和恐惧。
It was fear of him and fear of the apocalypse.
这是对他的恐惧和对世界末日的恐惧。
Stella's carbon footprint started to haunt her.
斯特拉的碳足迹开始困扰着她。
When her mom drove her to school, when she drank a glass of milk, even when she exhaled sometimes, she'd think, all I'm doing is putting more carbon dioxide into the air.
当她妈妈开车送她去学校时，当她喝一杯牛奶时，甚至当她有时呼气时，她都会想，我所做的只是向空气中排放了更多的二氧化碳。
She started having nightmares every night of the world burning, or of oceans rising and flooding her house, or going to the grocery store and finding the shelves completely bare because droughts had killed off all the plants.
她开始每天晚上都做噩梦，梦见世界在燃烧，或者梦见海平面上升淹没她的房子，或者去杂货店发现货架上空空如也，因为干旱已经杀死了所有的植物。
Mike and Malinda both told me they had no idea the kids were feeling this way at the time, which Emrys and Stella said makes sense.
迈克和马琳达都告诉我，他们不知道孩子们当时有这种感觉，埃姆里斯和斯特拉说这是有道理的。
They were good at hiding it.
他们很擅长隐藏它。
When I asked Mike about how bad the kids felt, he said he never meant to make his kids feel as bad as they did.
当我问迈克孩子们的感受有多糟糕时，他说他从来没有想过让他的孩子们感觉像他们一样糟糕。
But he also defended guilt as a tactic.
但他也为有罪作为一种策略进行了辩护。
Guilt is seriously underrated.
内疚感被严重低估了。
Guilt and shame keep people from murdering each other.
内疚和羞耻感使人们不会互相谋杀。
And honestly, guilt may be one of the few things that could keep life on Earth going for the next 10,000 years.
老实说，内疚可能是少数能让地球上的生命在未来一万年继续存在的因素之一。
If we can't feel guilt or shame about what we're doing and learn how to do something else, it was over a long time ago.
如果我们不能对自己正在做的事情感到内疚或羞耻，并学会如何做其他事情，那一切早就结束了。
One way to hear this story is that it's not about climate change but about a dad who goes off the deep end for reasons that have more to do with his own personality than anything else.
听这个故事的一种方式是，这与气候变化无关，而是关于一位父亲因为与他自己的性格有关而不是其他任何原因而陷入困境的故事。
But I can't dismiss the role climate change plays in this story.
但我不能忽视气候变化在这个故事中扮演的角色。
I think the grim picture of the future that Mike carries in his head is actually more accurate than the picture most of us carry around.
我认为迈克脑海中对未来的严峻想象实际上比我们大多数人对未来的想象更准确。
And it's genuinely hard to figure out the right way to have feelings about climate change.
确实很难找出正确的方式来表达对气候变化的感受。
It's easy to lose perspective when the problem is so vast and woven into every part of how we live, how we get to work, what we eat, and the stakes are so high.
当问题如此巨大并渗透到我们生活方式、工作方式、饮食的方方面面，而且风险如此之高时，我们很容易失去洞察力。
I talked to other people who had wake-up moments, many of whom are reasonable and kind and not alarmist by nature, who alienated their families, and in lots of cases, lost their families, in the wake of their newfound clarity.
我和其他有觉醒时刻的人交谈过，他们中的许多人都是通情达理、善良的，本质上并不危言耸听，他们疏远了自己的家人，在很多情况下，在他们重新清醒过来之后失去了家人。
Malinda and the kids see all that but also believe it didn't have to go this way.
马琳达和孩子们看到了这一切，但也相信事情不必这样发展。
Malinda said that to me in our very first conversation.
马琳达在我们第一次谈话时就对我说了这句话。
Mike could have done his climate work without torturing his family.
迈克本可以在不折磨家人的情况下完成他的气候工作。
That is, he didn't need to cuss out his kids.
也就是说，他不需要咒骂他的孩子。
Coming up, how the most ambitious, arguably most successful thing you ever do as a political activist could also be the worst thing that you do for your family.
接下来，作为一名政治活动家，你做过的最雄心勃勃、可以说是最成功的事情也可能是你为家人做的最糟糕的事情。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program-- "The End of the World As We Know It." If you're just tuning in, we're in the middle of Aviva DeKornfeld's story about Mike Foster and his family and how his climate activism led to changes in their family and ultimately divorce and his estrangement from his two kids who he hasn't spoken with in years.
今天的节目——《我们所知道的世界末日》。如果您刚刚收看节目，我们正在听 Aviva DeKornfeld 讲述迈克·福斯特 (Mike Foster) 和他的家人的故事，以及他的气候行动主义如何导致他们的家庭发生变化，并最终导致离婚，以及他与多年没有说过话的两个孩子的疏远。
We will pick up where we left off.
我们将从上次停下的地方继续。
Both of his kids, Stella and Emrys, want to quit doing activism with their dad.
他的两个孩子斯特拉（Stella）和埃姆里斯（Emrys）都想停止与父亲一起从事激进主义活动。
Again, here's Aviva.
再说一遍，这是 Aviva。
It takes about two years of going to climate meetings and speaking at rallies with their dad before Stella and Emrys confided in each other about how they really felt about it and what they actually wanted.
斯特拉和埃姆里斯花了大约两年的时间参加气候会议并与父亲一起在集会上发表讲话，然后才向对方吐露了他们对此的真实感受以及他们真正想要的东西。
Here's Emrys.
这是埃姆里斯。
I remember we were out on the back porch going inside, and Stella stopped me.
我记得我们当时正从后门廊进去，斯特拉拦住了我。
And she whispered, do you think Mom and Dad are going to get a divorce?
她低声问道，你觉得爸爸妈妈会离婚吗？
And I was like, I don't know, but I kind of hope so.
我当时想，我不知道，但我希望如此。
And she was like, me, too.
她就像，我也是。
And yeah, after that, it was better because we had that solidarity.
是的，在那之后，情况变得更好了，因为我们有了团结。
Stella started doing secret research about parental custody to figure out the odds that she and Emrys would get to live with their mom in the event that her parents did get divorced.
斯特拉开始对父母监护权进行秘密研究，以弄清楚如果她的父母离婚，她和埃姆里斯与母亲住在一起的可能性。
And she started dropping hints.
她开始暗示。
She was just beginning sixth grade around this time, and her school offered these elective support groups.
当时她刚刚开始六年级，她的学校提供了这些选修支持小组。
There were a bunch of different options, and one of the groups was for kids with divorced parents.
有很多不同的选择，其中一组是针对父母离婚的孩子的。
That was a group Stella signed up for.
这是斯特拉报名参加的一个团体。
When Malinda found out which group Stella had joined and asked her about it, Stella shrugged and said, just in case.
当玛琳达发现斯黛拉加入了哪个团体并向她询问时，斯黛拉耸耸肩说道，以防万一。
Things continued like this for a while-- everyone going through the motions-- until it all came to a head one night.
事情就这样持续了一段时间——每个人都在走走过场——直到有一天晚上，一切都达到了高潮。
Emrys wanted to go to a Fall Out Boy concert.
Emrys 想去听 Fall Out Boy 音乐会。
Mike insisted they come to the monthly Plant-for-the-Planet meeting instead.
迈克坚持要求他们参加每月一次的“植树造林，保护地球”会议。
When the meeting was over, Emrys and Stella waited by the car for 45 minutes in the cold before he came out.
会议结束后，埃姆里斯和斯特拉在寒冷的车旁等了45分钟，他才出来。
We started driving home.
我们开始开车回家。
I think I was very obviously sulking.
我想我明显生闷气了。
And ultimately, I told him that I was annoyed that he had taken so long to come back and that I hadn't really wanted to go to the meeting in the first place.
最后，我告诉他，我很生气他花了这么长时间才回来，而且我一开始就不想参加会议。
And he just lost it.
而他刚刚失去了它。
He got so mad.
他很生气。
He was shouting in this car, just yelling, like, you're ungrateful.
他在车里大喊大叫，就像，你忘恩负义。
You don't realize how much I do for you.
你不知道我为你做了多少。
Why can't you just go along with it for one night?
你为什么不能就这样呆一晚呢？
What is your problem?
你有什么问题吗？
What is so important about this fucking concert?
这场该死的音乐会有什么重要的？
And he was driving erratically.
而且他的驾驶方式不稳定。
He would pull the car over super fast and turn and start yelling at us again, unprompted.
他会以超快的速度把车停在路边，然后转身又开始对我们大喊大叫，毫无提示。
And what are you guys doing at that point?
那时你们在做什么？
We are literally-- both of us are just sitting in the back seat, mouths closed, eyes wide, crying, absolutely terrified.
我们真的——我们俩都坐在后座上，闭着嘴，睁大眼睛，哭泣，绝对害怕。
I'd never seen him that angry, and I'd seen him get angry a lot.
我从来没有见过他这么生气，而且我见过他生气很多次。
And so yeah, when we came home, we just got out of the car as fast as we possibly could and ran inside to get to our mom, because it was like the safe zone in a game of tag or something.
所以，是的，当我们回到家时，我们就以尽可能快的速度下车，跑进去去找我们的妈妈，因为这就像捉人游戏或其他游戏中的安全区。
It was like, she meant protection from him.
就好像，她的意思是保护他免受他的侵害。
I was in the family room, and the door flew open.
我在家庭活动室，门突然打开了。
The kids came running in, crying, sobbing.
孩子们跑进来，哭着，抽泣着。
And their dad came running in after them, screaming at the top of his lungs.
他们的父亲追着他们跑了进来，大声尖叫。
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
我就像，哇，哇，哇。
What is happening here?
这里发生了什么？
What is going on?
到底是怎么回事？
And I went upstairs to talk to the kids.
我上楼去和孩子们说话。
And they said they were afraid that they were going to die in the car.
他们说他们害怕自己会死在车里。
I'm like, what the hell happened?
我想，到底发生了什么？
Malinda made up her mind.
马琳达下了决心。
Not long after that night, she told Mike she wanted a divorce.
那天晚上后不久，她告诉迈克她想离婚。
Mike calls it a climate divorce.
迈克称之为气候离婚。
Malinda says no. If anything, climate change kept them together longer than they should have been.
马琳达说不。如果说有什么不同的话，那就是气候变化让他们在一起的时间比应有的时间要长。
I feel like I looked past and accepted so much more of what was bad, because it was in service of climate change.
我觉得我回顾过去并接受了更多不好的事情，因为它是为气候变化服务的。
If he had been a QAnon conspirator, it would have been so easy for me to say, no, not doing that.
如果他是 QAnon 阴谋者，我会很容易说，不，不这样做。
But it's climate change.
但这是气候变化。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Mike and Malinda get divorced, and Mike moves just a few blocks away.
迈克和马琳达离婚了，迈克搬到了几个街区之外。
The kids get to live with their mom full-time, as they'd hoped.
正如孩子们所希望的那样，他们可以全职和妈妈住在一起。
And to establish some sort of new relationship with Mike, they try a couple rounds of family therapy.
为了与迈克建立某种新的关系，他们尝试了几轮家庭治疗。
But according to the therapist notes, the first round crashes and burns because Mike keeps interrupting to explain climate change and the importance of his work to the therapist.
但根据治疗师的笔记，第一轮的失败是因为迈克不断打断向治疗师解释气候变化以及他的工作的重要性。
When they try again months later, Stella gets up the courage to tell Mike her big secret for the first time-- that she doesn't want to be a climate activist anymore, that she was only doing it because she felt he gave her no choice.
当几个月后他们再次尝试时，斯特拉第一次鼓起勇气告诉迈克她的大秘密——她不想再成为一名气候活动家，她这样做只是因为她觉得他让她别无选择。
Stella figured he'd say he was sorry, and she prepared herself to forgive him.
斯特拉认为他会道歉，她准备原谅他。
But instead, Mike seemed angry.
但相反，迈克似乎很生气。
He did apologize.
他确实道歉了。
But the thing he apologized for was that he hadn't invited her to more climate events so that she'd be more emotionally invested in the cause, see it the way he did.
但他道歉的是，他没有邀请她参加更多的气候活动，这样她就会更加投入到这项事业中，就像他那样看待它。
A word to listeners who might be sensitive to this, this next part of the story mentions self-harm.
对于可能对此敏感的听众来说，故事的下一部分提到了自残。
I just remember feeling like I'm never going to escape him, and wanting everything to just be done with because I was so tired of having to explain these things that I'd gone through and having to think about him and having to talk about him and talk to him and having him not be who I needed him to be when I needed it.
我只记得我感觉自己永远无法逃离他，我希望一切都能结束，因为我厌倦了必须解释我所经历的这些事情，不得不思考他，不得不谈论他，与他交谈，当我需要他时，让他不再是我需要他成为的人。
It just all became too much.
这一切都变得太多了。
About an hour and a half after the session with her dad, Stella attempted suicide.
与父亲会面后大约一个半小时，斯特拉试图自杀。
She spent the next eight days in the hospital.
接下来的八天她都在医院度过。
She told her mom to keep her dad away from her.
她告诉妈妈不要让爸爸靠近她。
She didn't even want him to know she was in there.
她甚至不想让他知道她在里面。
For me, it was the first time that I said no. It wasn't very dignified.
对我来说，这是我第一次说不。本来就不太有尊严。
I was kind of screaming and crying, like, no, don't let him in.
我有点尖叫和哭泣，就像，不，不要让他进来。
Don't let him in.
别让他进来。
But I think having a complete break from him where he just stopped being at all a consideration for a week, but also having had the power to remove him, was really critical for me.
但我认为，与他彻底分手，一周内他不再被考虑，但同时又有权除掉他，这对我来说真的很重要。
I told Mike what Stella said, how their conversation in therapy was a breaking point for her just before her suicide attempt.
我告诉迈克斯特拉说过的话，他们在治疗中的谈话如何在她企图自杀之前成为她的转折点。
He said he had no idea.
他说他不知道。
He didn't remember apologizing for the wrong thing, for saying he was sorry he didn't get her more invested in climate work.
他不记得为错误的事情道歉，因为他说他很抱歉没有让她在气候工作上投入更多。
I wish I could remember saying it.
我希望我能记得说过这句话。
It sounds like the kind of stuff that would have come out of my mouth.
这听起来像是从我嘴里说出来的东西。
And what a shitty thing when she needed something else.
当她需要别的东西时，这是多么糟糕的事情啊。
After that, Mike stopped trying to contact Stella.
此后，迈克不再尝试联系斯特拉。
She didn't want him to, and the therapist said it could be dangerous for Stella.
她不想让他这样做，治疗师说这对斯特拉来说可能很危险。
So he laid low, hoping the kids were OK and waiting for an invite to return to the family.
所以他保持低调，希望孩子们一切都好，等待返回家人的邀请。
Stella says that with the burden of fixing her relationship with her dad lifted, she started doing a lot better.
斯特拉说，随着修复与父亲关系的负担减轻，她开始做得更好。
Freed from climate work, she had time to do things that she actually liked, like reading fantasy novels.
摆脱了气候工作的束缚，她有时间做自己真正喜欢的事情，比如阅读奇幻小说。
She also got a great therapist and started taking antidepressants, which she said have really helped.
她还请了一位很棒的治疗师，并开始服用抗抑郁药，她说这确实有帮助。
And so with Stella feeling sturdier, it seemed like Mike and the kids might possibly find a way to rebuild, have a relationship of some kind, however fractured, until this next thing happened, which brought about the end of their world as they knew it.
因此，随着斯特拉感觉更加坚强，迈克和孩子们似乎可能会找到一种重建的方法，建立某种关系，无论多么破裂，直到下一件事发生，这给他们带来了他们所知道的世界的终结。
It was the fall of 2016, a little over a year after Stella's suicide attempt.
那是 2016 年秋天，距离斯特拉企图自杀已经一年多了。
And she reached out to ask for a meeting with her dad and Emrys and the therapist.
她主动要求与她的父亲、埃姆里斯和治疗师会面。
In the meeting, Stella and Emrys told their dad that for them to consider having a relationship again, they needed him to stop doing climate work for a while.
在会议上，斯特拉和埃姆里斯告诉他们的父亲，为了让他们考虑再次建立关系，他们需要他暂时停止从事气候工作。
Here's Stella.
这是斯特拉。
He said he would.
他说他会的。
And it made me really happy.
这让我真的很高兴。
It felt like change.
感觉就像是改变了。
Emrys was struck, too.
埃默里斯也受到了打击。
Emrys Maybe if he could get rid of that, then he really does care about us.
Emrys 也许如果他能摆脱这个，那么他真的很关心我们。
Like, he must really love us if he's willing to give that up.
就像，如果他愿意放弃的话，他一定是真的爱我们。
A few weeks after that, after Mike told his kids he would stop doing climate activism, he did his most extreme climate action ever.
几周后，迈克告诉他的孩子们他将停止从事气候活动，他采取了有史以来最极端的气候行动。
Protesters manually turned off five oil pipelines today.
今天，抗议者手动关闭了五条石油管道。
One of the five protesters can be seen here turning off the pipeline valve in North Dakota.
图中可以看到五名抗议者之一关闭了北达科他州的管道阀门。
The group says--
该小组表示——
Mike traveled to North Dakota, broke past the fence around the Keystone pipeline, and turned a valve, shutting off the flow of oil.
迈克前往北达科他州，突破了基斯通管道周围的围栏，打开了阀门，切断了石油的流动。
He was arrested on-site and, at that point, charged with six felonies and two misdemeanors, which, combined, could land him in prison for more than 90 years.
他当场被捕，并被指控犯有六项重罪和两项轻罪，加起来可能会让他入狱 90 多年。
I was mad.
我很生气。
I was so mad.
我很生气。
Aviva DeKornfeld Here's Emrys again.
艾维瓦·德科恩菲尔德 (Aviva DeKornfeld) 埃姆里斯又来了。
Man, I was pissed.
伙计，我很生气。
That was the point where he's saying he would stop doing all this for us.
就在那时，他说他将停止为我们做这一切。
And it's like, oh, he's going to prison.
就像，哦，他要进监狱了。
Here's Stella.
这是斯特拉。
Stella That moment really just was it for me.
斯特拉 那一刻真的很适合我。
I just didn't care anymore.
我只是不再关心了。
It felt like relief because there was no small voice in my head saying, but he's your dad.
这感觉就像是一种解脱，因为我的脑海里没有一个微弱的声音在说，但他是你的爸爸。
You've got to love him.
你必须爱他。
I was complete and whole and didn't need him and didn't want him.
我是完整的，完整的，不需要他，也不想要他。
A bunch of the charges were either dismissed or amended, but Mike ended up spending six months in prison.
一系列指控要么被驳回，要么被修改，但迈克最终在监狱里度过了六个月。
He told me he didn't realize his kids were asking him to stop climate activism right then.
他告诉我，他当时没有意识到他的孩子们要求他停止气候活动。
He thought they meant someday.
他认为他们的意思是有一天。
He said he had no idea this was the last straw for them.
他说他不知道这是压垮他们的最后一根稻草。
The valve-turning propelled Mike to fame in a new way, especially in their little green Seattle community, Malinda says.
马林达说，阀门转动让迈克以一种新的方式成名，尤其是在他们的绿色西雅图小社区。
Then the story was, he's a hero.
然后故事是，他是一个英雄。
Look what he's done.
看看他做了什么。
He's a hero.
他是一个英雄。
He's a hero.
他是一个英雄。
And there was an article in the local Seattle Magazine which painted him as this martyr and talked about how he sacrificed his relationship with his children for the planet.
西雅图当地杂志上有一篇文章将他描绘成这位烈士，并谈到他如何为了地球而牺牲了与孩子们的关系。
And they tried to say that, yeah, we couldn't fly anymore, and the marriage broke apart.
他们试图说，是的，我们不能再飞了，于是婚姻破裂了。
And he had a quote saying something like, basically, I just annoyed the fuck out of them.
他引用了一句话，基本上是这样说的，我只是惹恼了他们。
I was like, that is so-- it is such a simple viewpoint.
我当时想，就是这样——这是一个如此简单的观点。
You didn't annoy the fuck out of us.
你他妈的没有惹恼我们。
You were as annoying as fuck.
你他妈的真烦人。
But you actually wounded us.
但你确实伤害了我们。
You harmed us.
你伤害了我们。
You hurt us.
你伤害了我们。
After the Seattle Magazine article came out, climate people would come up to Malinda and the kids and tell them they should really talk to Mike again, they should forgive him, because he's doing such important work.
《西雅图杂志》的文章发表后，气候人士会找到马林达和孩子们，告诉他们应该再次与迈克交谈，他们应该原谅他，因为他正在做如此重要的工作。
But Emrys doesn't see his work that way.
但埃姆里斯并不这样看待他的工作。
I think it's made it so that his name means something, but to very few people.
我认为这使得他的名字有意义，但对极少数人来说。
It's a subset of people who are already inclined to that stuff.
这是已经倾向于这些东西的一小部分人。
But he hasn't achieved anything.
但他还没有取得任何成就。
With his climate stuff, like I said, the valve-turning had no effect.
正如我所说，对于他的气候问题，阀门转动没有任何效果。
The oil got there a couple hours later.
几个小时后，石油到达那里。
He's made a series of empty gestures and spent years posturing as a hero and a family man and has just destroyed everything, I think, that was actually meaningful about his life.
他做了一系列空洞的举动，多年来一直摆出英雄和顾家男人的姿态，我认为，他毁了一切，这对他的生活来说实际上是有意义的。
And I think, on some level, he knows that.
我认为，在某种程度上，他知道这一点。
And that's part of why he's so distressed about having lost his family.
这就是为什么他对失去家人感到如此痛苦的部分原因。
[SIGHS] I don't know.
[叹气]我不知道。
I guess I wish him well.
我想我祝他一切顺利。
But he can find meaning that isn't family, at this point, because we're done with him.
但在这一点上，他可以找到家庭以外的意义，因为我们和他已经结束了。
It's been nearly six years since Mike and Malinda got divorced.
迈克和马琳达离婚已经快六年了。
There's been essentially no contact between Mike and the kids since the valve-turning.
自从阀门转动以来，迈克和孩子们之间基本上没有任何接触。
The first time I talked to Mike, our interview lasted nine hours, mostly because almost every question I asked about his family, he ended up veering into climate change-- how bad things were, how no one was doing enough, how so many endemic species face extinction this century, a fact he told me four times in our interview.
我第一次和迈克交谈时，我们的采访持续了九个小时，主要是因为我问的几乎所有关于他家人的问题，他最终都转向了气候变化——事情有多糟糕，没有人做得足够，本世纪有这么多特有物种面临灭绝，这一事实他在我们的采访中四次告诉我。
He oscillated between extreme sadness over his nonexistent relationship with his kids to anger about the state of the world to agitated concern that I hadn't asked him any of the right questions yet, because I hadn't asked him about the science, about what it was going to take to change things.
他对自己与孩子们不存在的关系感到极度悲伤，对世界现状感到愤怒，又担心我还没有问他任何正确的问题，因为我没有问他关于科学的问题，关于如何改变事情的问题，他的情绪摇摆不定。
The morning after our interview, I woke up to an email from Mike.
采访结束后的第二天早上，我醒来时收到了迈克发来的电子邮件。
And he asked for a do-over.
他要求重来一次。
He said he'd accidentally gone into climate-rant mode instead of speaking as a dad.
他说他不小心进入了气候咆哮模式，而不是以父亲的身份发言。
He said, quote, "I can't live with what I said.
他说：“我无法接受我所说的话。
I can't.
我不能。
My ramblings sound monstrous and idiotic."
我的胡言乱语听起来既可怕又愚蠢。”
We tried again.
我们又试了一次。
He told me he didn't agree with his family that the problem was his personality and the way he handled his activism.
他告诉我，他不同意家人的看法，认为问题在于他的个性和他处理激进主义的方式。
He thought there were things he could have done better, but the real problem was that he and Malinda weren't on the same page.
他认为有些事情他可以做得更好，但真正的问题是他和马琳达意见不一致。
I told him I didn't think having two parents like him would have solved things with the kids.
我告诉他，我不认为有两个像他这样的父母能够解决孩子们的问题。
He didn't see it and didn't understand why his family couldn't have brought up how they were feeling with him.
他没有看到，也不明白为什么他的家人不能告诉他他们对他的感受。
It's still news to me that they're afraid to talk to me about this stuff.
他们害怕和我谈论这些事情对我来说仍然是新闻。
I understand you've told me that there were these moments when I got angry, and I was really, really scary to them.
我知道你告诉过我，有时候我会生气，我对他们来说真的非常非常可怕。
And a big person and little kids-- totally get that and take responsibility for that.
一个大人和小孩——完全理解这一点并为此承担责任。
And yet, the apologies, the talks, the hugs, the bedtimes, the whatever, the living life that happened in between these whatever months of not being angry-- I guess I was under the illusion that they could talk to me about anything.
然而，道歉、谈话、拥抱、睡觉时间等等，在这几个月不生气之间发生的生活——我想我是在幻想他们可以和我谈论任何事情。
It sounds like you didn't, at the time, realize how your behavior was impacting them.
听起来你当时并没有意识到你的行为如何影响他们。
But there are a few interactions that seem like, even at the time, you would have understood the impact.
但有一些互动似乎即使在当时，你也会理解其影响。
Like, Emrys mentioned that you had called Stella a fucking bitch and a cunt when she was really little, like 10--
就像，埃姆里斯提到你在斯特拉很小的时候，比如 10 岁的时候，就骂她是个该死的婊子和混蛋——
Yeah.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld --which-- that feels like--
Aviva DeKornfeld——这——感觉就像——
That was horrible Aviva DeKornfeld --you would understand.
这是可怕的阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德——你会理解的。
That was horrible.
那太可怕了。
That was a nightmare.
那真是一场噩梦。
Yeah.
是的。
I could see how it'd be hard after that, after your dad calls you a cunt, to ever--
我可以想象，从那以后，在你爸爸骂你是混蛋之后，你会变得多么艰难——
I would not-- Aviva DeKornfeld --say anything--
我不会——Aviva DeKornfeld——说什么——
Yes.
是的。
Aviva DeKornfeld --to him to make him angry again.
Aviva DeKornfeld——对他说，让他再次生气。
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
And I did anything and everything I could afterwards to make it right.
之后我做了一切我能做的事情来纠正它。
But come on.
但来吧。
You're right.
你说得对。
That was a thing that you can't take back.
那是你无法收回的东西。
Yeah.
是的。
So I live with that.
所以我接受这一点。
[SIGHS] I'm broken.
[叹气]我崩溃了。
I don't know why I'm here.
我不知道我为什么在这里。
The thing I love the most is the thing I'm farthest from.
我最爱的东西，也是我距离最远的东西。
Things for Malinda and the kids are pretty good these days.
马琳达和孩子们最近过得很好。
Stella just turned 18.
斯特拉刚刚满 18 岁。
She says her climate nightmares only come every couple weeks instead of nightly.
她说她的气候噩梦每隔几周就会出现一次，而不是每晚都会出现。
And she's off at college this fall, a milestone that, for a while, she never thought she'd reach.
今年秋天她就要上大学了，这是一个她一度从未想过能达到的里程碑。
Emrys is 19.
埃默里斯 19 岁。
They work on a boat, teaching kids about marine life and maritime skills, a job they love, though they skip out on teaching the lessons about climate change.
他们在船上工作，教孩子们有关海洋生物和航海技能的知识，这是他们热爱的工作，尽管他们没有教授有关气候变化的课程。
They said they're not ready to do that yet.
他们说他们还没有准备好这样做。
While I was out in Seattle doing my interviews this summer, the Pacific Northwest was in the midst of the most extreme heat wave in the region's recorded history.
今年夏天，当我在西雅图进行采访时，太平洋西北地区正处于该地区有记录以来最极端的热浪之中。
Cable lines melted.
电缆线熔化。
Roads cracked in the heat.
道路在炎热中龟裂。
Over 100 people died.
超过 100 人死亡。
Stella told me that during the heat wave, she had to sit in her room and repeat to herself, things are bad, and there's nothing you can do about it, until the feeling passed.
斯特拉告诉我，在热浪期间，她不得不坐在自己的房间里，对自己重复说，事情很糟糕，你对此无能为力，直到这种感觉过去。
Emrys says, in low moments, their dad's voice pops into their head and tells them they haven't done anything with their life, that all they do is turn oxygen into carbon.
埃姆里斯说，在情绪低落的时刻，他们的父亲的声音会突然出现在他们的脑海中，告诉他们他们一生中没有做任何事情，他们所做的只是将氧气转化为碳。
Malinda and I did our interview in her office, the only place we could find central AC.
马琳达和我在她的办公室进行了采访，这是我们唯一能找到中央空调的地方。
It was 106 degrees outside.
外面气温为 106 度。
She told me the irony isn't lost on her.
她告诉我，她并没有忽视这一讽刺。
Mike was right about the climate.
迈克对气候的看法是正确的。
She said the hairs stand up on the back of her neck when she thinks about it.
她说，一想到这件事，她脖子后面的汗毛就竖起来了。
Malinda and the kids-- they try to block it out.
马琳达和孩子们——他们试图阻止它。
But that's getting harder and harder.
但这变得越来越难。
Aviva DeKornfeld.
阿维娃·德科恩菲尔德。
She's a producer on our show.
她是我们节目的制片人。
Just a note.
只是一个注释。
If you or somebody you know might need help, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is available 24/7 at 1-800-273-TALK.
如果您或您认识的人可能需要帮助，请拨打 1-800-273-TALK，每周 24/7 拨打国家自杀预防生命线。
Again, that's 1-800-273-8255.
再次强调，这是 1-800-273-8255。
Act Two, Out of the Crying Pan and into the Fire.
第二幕，走出哭泣的锅，进入火海。
So there are all sorts of ways your world can end.
所以你的世界有各种各样的结束方式。
And sometimes you want it to end, you need it to end, because that's the only way you can get to a new beginning.
有时你希望它结束，你需要它结束，因为这是你能够重新开始的唯一途径。
A couple weeks ago, I watched 15,000 people who wanted exactly that.
几周前，我观察了 15,000 名正是想要这个的人。
OK.
好的。
So we're standing in Fort Marcy Park in Santa Fe, New Mexico, under a 50-foot puppet.
我们站在新墨西哥州圣达菲的马西堡公园，站在一个 50 英尺高的木偶下面。
My guide for this is Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi, who grew up here in Santa Fe.
我的向导是 Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi，他在圣达菲长大。
He's also one of the hosts of NPR's Planet Money podcast.
他也是 NPR 的 Planet Money 播客的主持人之一。
Technically speaking, the puppet is a marionette-- a ginormous one-- five stories tall, with a green, ghoulish head, on a hill towering over a baseball field and public park.
从技术上讲，这个木偶是一个木偶——一个巨大的木偶——有五层楼高，有一个绿色的、可怕的头，位于一座高耸于棒球场和公园上方的山上。
His name is Zozobra.
他的名字叫佐佐布拉。
He's the scapegoat of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
他是新墨西哥州圣达菲的替罪羊。
Everybody puts-- they write down all of their anguish and sadness and misfortune that they've experienced in the last year.
每个人都写下了去年所经历的所有痛苦、悲伤和不幸。
And they fill his whole body up.
它们充满了他的整个身体。
And then at the end of the night, he's going to be lit on fire and supposedly purge all of our sadness.
然后在夜晚结束时，他会被点燃，据称会清除我们所有的悲伤。
Alexi has been coming since grade school, when his class would visit during the day and watch them hoist Zozobra into the air.
Alexi 从小学起就来了，他的班级白天会来参观，看着他们将 Zozobra 举到空中。
And the sadnesses that he would write down to be burned were about unrequited crushes and not getting the part in the student production of Grease.
他写下来烧掉的悲伤是关于单相思的暗恋和没有在学生制作的《油脂》中获得角色。
He shows me the ditch in the back of the park, this arroyo that his friends in high school would run through if they were sneaking in a bottle of tequila or something and wanted to avoid security.
他向我展示了公园后面的沟渠，他高中时的朋友们如果想偷偷溜进一瓶龙舌兰酒或其他东西并想逃避安检，就会从这条沟里跑过去。
Yeah, kids do drugs.
是的，孩子们吸毒。
Kids get drunk.
孩子们喝醉了。
But also, the crowd turns really angry.
但同时，人群也变得非常愤怒。
And it's actually a scary-- it can be really scary out here.
这实际上很可怕——这里真的很可怕。
As much as it's a thing where people are releasing whatever has been making them sad throughout the year, it's also-- everyone directs their rage that they normally are hiding towards this puppet figure up on the hill.
尽管人们释放了这一年来让他们感到悲伤的一切，但每个人都将他们通常躲藏在山上的木偶人物的愤怒发泄到了身上。
And people are screaming to burn him, and they're screaming expletives.
人们尖叫着要烧死他，他们尖叫着咒骂。
And it's just a side of people you don't see, usually.
通常，这只是你看不到的人的一面。
And you'll see everybody here.
你会在这里见到大家。
It's like, Santa Fe is a small town.
就像，圣达菲是一个小镇。
And so I've seen teachers from high school or from elementary school as far gone as any of us.
所以我见过高中或小学的老师和我们一样走得那么远。
When Alexi says you see everybody here, just to put that in perspective, Santa Fe's population is around 80,000.
当亚历克西说你看到这里的每个人时，从长远来看，圣达菲的人口约为 80,000 人。
60,000 people usually come to Zozobra.
通常有 60,000 人来到 Zozobra。
Though, this year, because of COVID, they limited attendance to a fourth of that.
不过，今年，由于新冠疫情，他们将出席人数限制为四分之一。
It's tons of families, maybe half Latino.
这里有很多家庭，也许有一半是拉丁裔。
The sadnesses that people write down to be burned are officially called glooms.
人们写下来烧掉的悲伤被正式称为忧郁。
And they're collected in boxes in town before the event and at the event.
在活动之前和活动期间，它们会被收集在镇上的盒子里。
Come right up!
快来吧！
We've got plenty of paper, plenty of pens, and plenty of boxes.
我们有充足的纸、充足的笔和充足的盒子。
You've got the gloom, we have the receptacle.
你有忧郁，我们有容器。
That doesn't work.
那是行不通的。
It's just--
这只是——
[CHUCKLES] Ira Glass You've got the gloom, we've got the room.
[咯咯笑] Ira Glass 你有阴郁，我们有房间。
There you go.
就这样吧。
Do you want to [INAUDIBLE].
你想[听不清]吗？
As I'm sure you know, it has been a boffo year for gloom.
我相信你知道，今年是忧郁的好年头。
Lots of people wrote notes about COVID and loved ones they lost, but also about other big glooms-- climate, Afghanistan.
许多人写了关于新冠病毒和他们失去的亲人的笔记，但也写下了其他重大的忧虑——气候、阿富汗。
Alexi has got some family in Kabul that he's worried about, and he put that into his note for Zozobra, along with some other people he wanted to remember.
Alexi 在喀布尔有一些令他担心的家人，他将其与其他一些他想记住的人一起写进了 Zozobra 的笔记中。
People write down all kinds of personal stuff.
人们写下各种个人的东西。
Right now, my dad is in a psych hospital this week, and I like-- well, I'm picking him up tomorrow.
现在，我爸爸这周在精神病院，我喜欢——好吧，我明天去接他。
But I wrote in something for him.
但我为他写了一些东西。
So I just put-- I know this is a little personal story.
所以我只是说——我知道这是一个小小的个人故事。
But I put, my ex left me, my uncle and dad passed away, and then my friends were ghosting me.
但我说，我的前任离开了我，我的叔叔和爸爸去世了，然后我的朋友们就在我身边。
And then I said, 2021 has got to go.
然后我说，2021 年已经过去了。
At the gloom-box tables, I saw an eight-year-old boy, Julian, who carefully wrote, on a slip of paper, "I miss Mom.
在昏暗的盒子桌子旁，我看到一个八岁的男孩朱利安，他在一张纸条上仔细地写着：“我想念妈妈。
I miss the house." His dad, Joaquin, explained.
我想念房子。”他的父亲华金解释道。
Basically what happened was, because of COVID and everything, losing my job, I wasn't able to make the payments on the house, and I ended up losing it.
基本上发生的事情是，由于新冠病毒和其他一切，我失去了工作，我无法支付房子的付款，最后我失去了它。
So that's about it.
就是这样。
Julian's mom moved to Colorado.
朱利安的妈妈搬到了科罗拉多州。
In the past, people have brought legal papers from disastrous lawsuits to go into Zozobra for burning.
过去，人们会将灾难性诉讼中的法律文件带到 Zozobra 中焚烧。
This year, Kay Arnold's medical diagnosis made it into the pile.
今年，凯·阿诺德的医疗诊断也被列入其中。
Kay was diagnosed with stage-four breast cancer in May.
凯于五月被诊断出患有第四期乳腺癌。
She lives in Texas and drove in with her daughter to watch it burn.
她住在德克萨斯州，和女儿一起开车去看火场燃烧。
Stage-four breast cancer is not, at this time, curable.
目前，第四期乳腺癌无法治愈。
So I'm responding well.
所以我的反应很好。
I'm being treated.
我正在接受治疗。
But what else are you going to do with a cancer diagnosis, right?
但是，对于癌症诊断，您还要做什么，对吗？
Stick it in a big, giant zombie, set it on fire.
把它放在一个巨大的僵尸身上，然后把它点燃。
What do you think it's going to be like to see it burn?
你认为看到它燃烧会是什么样子？
I think it's going to be invigorating.
我想这会令人振奋。
I'm already on the verge of tears.
我已经快要落泪了。
Yeah.
是的。
Why does it work to burn something in an effigy?
为什么焚烧肖像中的东西会起作用？
I just think it helps you to feel like it's gone.
我只是认为它可以帮助你感觉它已经消失了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
It feels like you're doing something, especially about something that maybe you can't do anything about.
感觉就像你正在做某事，尤其是一些你可能无能为力的事情。
I don't know.
我不知道。
When you can't do anything, why not set it on fire?
当你无能为力时，为什么不放火呢？
She'd already done everything reasonable for her illness-- doctors, medicines.
她已经为她的病做了一切合理的治疗——医生、药物。
Time to try something unreasonable.
是时候尝试一些不合理的事情了。
Katarina Valdez brought her wedding dress to be burned.
卡塔琳娜·瓦尔迪兹带来了她的婚纱要被烧毁。
One of the organizers actually sent her a photo of the dress hanging inside Zozobra that she showed me on her phone.
其中一位组织者实际上给她发了一张挂在 Zozobra 内的裙子的照片，她用手机给我看了。
So that's the back of Zozobra.
这就是佐佐布拉的背面。
And then my dress is right there at the bottom with the envelope that I put-- I put a letter from myself just saying goodbye to my past, that time in my life.
然后我的裙子就在我放的信封的底部——我放了一封自己写的信，向我的过去、我生命中的那段时间说再见。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
It's just hanging there on a hanger.
它只是挂在衣架上。
Yeah, it's on a hanger.
是的，它挂在衣架上。
It really, literally is on a plastic hanger hanging in Zozobra.
它确实挂在 Zozobra 的塑料衣架上。
Also in that envelope, some photos that she never wants to see again and a promise ring given to ask forgiveness, Katarina says, for something she never should have forgiven.
卡塔琳娜说，在那个信封里，还有一些她再也不想看到的照片，以及一枚用来祈求宽恕的定情戒指，因为她根本不应该原谅一些事情。
She was married for seven years.
她结婚七年了。
It's really exciting.
这真的很令人兴奋。
I'm sick of seeing it in my mom's closet.
我厌倦了在我妈妈的衣柜里看到它。
And I've been divorced for three years, and I want to move on.
我已经离婚三年了，我想继续前进。
I have three beautiful children that are finally in a really healthy and safe environment with us.
我有三个漂亮的孩子，他们终于和我们一起生活在一个真正健康和安全的环境中。
And they're thriving at school.
他们在学校里表现出色。
I have a beautiful, amazing new partner.
我有一个美丽、令人惊叹的新伴侣。
He's going to start giggling.
他会开始咯咯笑。
We've been dating for seven months.
我们已经约会七个月了。
[CHUCKLES] And so it's the perfect time to do this.
[笑] 所以现在是这样做的最佳时机。
She'd love to bring the kids with her to see the dress burn.
她很想带孩子们一起去看裙子被烧毁。
But she said they're with their dad, actually at Zozobra somewhere, right then.
但她说他们当时和父亲在一起，实际上就在佐佐布拉的某个地方。
And I don't know if he knows now.
我不知道他现在是否知道。
I didn't tell him, but I'm sure my kids did.
我没有告诉他，但我确信我的孩子们已经告诉了他。
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
I just want to look out on the field.
我只是想看看球场上的情况。
So somewhere in this field--
所以在这个领域的某个地方——
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass --is your ex-husband with your three kids--
艾拉·格拉斯——你的前夫和你的三个孩子——
My three children.
我的三个孩子。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass --who have definitely told him that your wedding dress is in there.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）——他肯定告诉他你的婚纱就在那里。
Yeah.
是的。
[CHUCKLES] Ira Glass She said, if it upsets him, she's sorry.
[笑] Ira Glass 她说，如果这让他不高兴，她很抱歉。
But she needed to turn the dress into ashes.
但她需要把这件衣服变成灰烬。
(CHANTING) Burn him!
（高呼）烧死他！
Burn him!
烧死他！
Burn him!
烧死他！
Burn him!
烧死他！
Burn him!
烧死他！
The sun sets, and the crowd starts chanting for the big moment.
太阳落山了，人群开始高呼这一重要时刻。
I watch the burn with Katarina and her boyfriend.
我和卡塔琳娜以及她的男朋友一起观看烧伤过程。
I'm a lot more nervous than I thought I was going to be.
我比我想象的要紧张得多。
Costumed dancers set off fires in a line across the stage and taunt Zozobra, who moans and waves his arms in protest.
盛装打扮的舞者在舞台上排成一排放火，嘲笑佐佐布拉，佐佐布拉则呻吟着，挥舞着手臂以示抗议。
A dancer in red carrying torches sets him on fire.
一名身穿红衣的舞者手持火把点燃了他。
Skyrockets shoot off.
冲天火箭腾空而起。
Orange light starts to flicker inside Zozobra's body.
佐佐布拉体内橙色的光芒开始闪烁。
There he goes!
他走了！
There he goes!
他走了！
Baby, there he goes!
宝贝，他来了！
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
Baby, there he goes.
宝贝，他走了。
[CHUCKLES] Oh my gosh.
[笑声] 哦天哪。
Baby, there his dress goes!
宝贝，他的衣服就在那里！
Baby!
婴儿！
Zozobra's dress basically makes up the bottom half of his body.
佐佐布拉的衣服基本上占据了他身体的下半部分。
And of course, inside his dress is Katarina's dress.
当然，他的裙子里面是卡特琳娜的裙子。
Wait.
等待。
Look.
看。
Now there's fire inside the dress.
现在裙子里面着火了。
There it goes!
就这样！
Baby, there it goes!
宝贝，就这样！
There's his skirts.
这是他的裙子。
And that's where my dress was.
那就是我的衣服所在的地方。
Zozobra flails his arms just a little while longer, and then it's done.
佐佐布拉挥动手臂的时间又长了一会儿，然后就完成了。
Yeah, our glooms are gone.
是的，我们的忧郁已经消失了。
And that's it.
就是这样。
Our glooms are gone, and we move on.
我们的忧郁已经消失，我们继续前进。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
You feel good.
你感觉很好。
Katarina Valdez Yeah.
卡塔琳娜·瓦尔迪兹 是的。
Yeah, I feel amazing.
是的，我感觉很神奇。
And you feel different than you did earlier.
而且你的感觉与之前有所不同。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, this is what I hoped for.
是的，这就是我所希望的。
So it worked.
所以它起作用了。
It worked.
它起作用了。
So I'm excited to see what the morning brings.
所以我很高兴看到早上会带来什么。
Everyone Alexi and I talked to afterward said they felt different, less encumbered.
后来我和亚历克西交谈过的每个人都说他们感觉不同了，没有那么沉重了。
But nobody could explain exactly why.
但没有人能准确解释原因。
A few said it's just primal-- throwing something into fire to vanquish it.
一些人说这只是原始的——把东西扔进火里来消灭它。
Even Kay, the woman from Texas who burned her medical records, told me she knows her diagnosis.
就连烧毁病历的德克萨斯州妇女凯也告诉我，她知道自己的诊断结果。
She knows she's going back to the doctors and the medicines.
她知道她要去找医生和药物。
But even she felt more hopeful, like a fresh start.
但就连她也感到更有希望，就像一个新的开始。
As people started to clear out of the park, a handful gathered around the smoking embers of Zozobra to roast marshmallows on the flames of their unhappy year, welcoming the new one with burnt, sugary sweetness.
当人们开始撤离公园时，少数人聚集在佐佐布拉冒烟的余烬周围，在他们不快乐的一年的火焰上烤棉花糖，以焦糖般的甜味迎接新的一年。
Credits Ira Glass Well, today's program was produced by Miki Meek and Aviva DeKornfeld.
图片来源 Ira Glass 嗯，今天的节目是由 Miki Meek 和 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作的。
The people who put together today's show include Bim Adewunmi, Sean Cole, Damien Graef, Seth Lind, Mary Marge Locker, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Alissa Shipp, Jessica Suriano, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Chloee Weiner.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Sean Cole、Damien Graef、Seth Lind、Mary Marge Locker、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Alissa Shipp、Jessica Suriano、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Chloee Weiner。
Our managing editor this week-- Diane Wu.
我们本周的总编辑——Diane Wu。
Senior editor-- David Kestenbaum.
高级编辑——大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor-- Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑——埃马努埃莱·贝里。
Special thanks today to Rebecca Huntley, who you heard in the opening of our program.
今天特别感谢丽贝卡·亨特利，您在我们的节目开始时听到了她的声音。
One of the things that she did after her wake-up moment is write a book.
她醒来后做的一件事就是写一本书。
It's called How to Talk About Climate in a Way That Makes a Difference, which is where we first heard of her.
这本书的名字叫《如何以一种有影响力的方式谈论气候》，这是我们第一次听说她的地方。
Also thanks today to Brett Wean, Kacy Suther, Kristy Drutman, Juliet Liu, Beth Haase, Fred Ehresmann, Lisa Jaramillo, Desiree Lira, and Julia Goldberg, who was manning the gloom boxes at Zozobra.
今天还要感谢在 Zozobra 操作暗箱的 Brett Wean、Kacy Suther、Kristy Drutman、Juliet Liu、Beth Haase、Fred Ehresmann、Lisa Jaramillo、Desiree Lira 和 Julia Goldberg。
Our website-- ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站——ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He was making fun of me this week because he found out that I am really into skateboards.
这周他取笑我，因为他发现我真的很喜欢滑板。
Though, I have to say, not the entire skateboard, OK?
不过，我不得不说，不是整个滑板，好吗？
I don't care about the deck or the wheels.
我不在乎甲板或车轮。
Wow, you're super passionate about trucks.
哇，你对卡车超级热情。
I just didn't know you're so into trucks.
我只是不知道你这么喜欢卡车。
Was this always a thing?
这一直都是一件事吗？
I think it's really great.
我认为这真的很棒。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。