747: Suitable for Children - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #747 | September 10, 2021 747: Suitable for Children Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 747 集 | 2021 年 9 月 10 日 747：适合儿童 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass There's this story my mom used to like to tell.
序言： 序言 Ira Glass 有一个我妈妈曾经喜欢讲的故事。
My older sister, Randi, was eight or so when this happened.
这件事发生时，我的姐姐兰迪大约八岁。
And something came up at school that Randi didn't understand, and she came home.
学校里发生了一些兰迪不明白的事情，她回家了。
And she asked my mom, where do babies come from?
她问我妈妈，婴儿从哪里来？
And my mom just felt like, great.
我妈妈只是觉得，太棒了。
This is great.
这太棒了。
She's bringing this up on her own.
她自己提出这件事。
I don't have to sit her down in some awkward birds and bees conversation someday.
有一天我不必让她坐下来进行一些尴尬的鸟类和蜜蜂谈话。
We can get this out of the way now when she's young, and she's really excited to tell her this stuff.
现在我们可以在她年轻的时候解决这个问题，她很高兴能告诉她这些事情。
And she explains the whole thing, right?
她解释了整个事情，对吗？
Where babies come from, what sex is.
婴儿从哪里来，性是什么。
And the way my mom always used to tell the story, she said that she felt like, I am doing such a good job here.
我妈妈总是用讲故事的方式，她说她感觉，我在这里做得很好。
Like, I am such a good mom today.
就像，我今天真是个好妈妈。
And at the end of it, she asked Randi, OK, so that's everything.
最后，她问兰迪，好吧，就这样。
Do you have any questions?
您还有什么疑问吗？
And then Randi pauses for a long moment, and she asks, "Can birds really fly?" And my mom realizes, of course, oh, she was not ready.
然后兰迪停顿了很长一段时间，她问道：“鸟真的能飞吗？”我妈妈当然意识到，哦，她还没有准备好。
Like, she absorbed nothing.
就像，她什么也没吸收。
And, sure enough, like, a year passes, and Randi comes back to her-- I don't remember why-- and asked her again, like, where do babies come from?
果然，一年过去了，兰迪回到她身边——我不记得为什么——又问她，比如，婴儿从哪里来？
And it's like the first time never happened.
就好像第一次从未发生过一样。
She remembered none of it.
她什么都不记得了。
And I think of that story sometimes when there are debates over what is suitable for children.
当人们争论什么适合儿童时，我有时会想起这个故事。
And I think there's a whole category of things that kids protect themselves from.
我认为孩子们需要保护自己免受一整类事物的侵害。
Like, they just don't want to engage with that stuff.
就像，他们只是不想参与那些事情。
Adults don't need to keep them from it.
成年人不需要阻止他们。
But then there's other stuff, stuff that does seep into their world that they take to heart and they mull about and they make part of themselves.
但还有其他一些东西，那些确实渗透到他们的世界中的东西，他们牢记在心，思考并成为自己的一部分。
And the thing that's difficult is that it can be really hard to predict what those things are going to be.
困难的是，很难预测这些事情将会是什么。
Well, today, on our program, things that kids hear, things they see, things that happen to them that affect them in ways that they only understand later as adults.
好吧，今天，在我们的节目中，孩子们听到的事情、看到的事情、发生在他们身上的事情对他们的影响只有他们成年后才能理解。
Like, for instance, what it means to give little Black kids toys that celebrate the Confederacy, or to drag teenage boys into the desert to watch atomic bombs go off, or to bring your kid to work when your work involves breaking the law.
例如，给黑人小孩庆祝联邦的玩具，或者把十几岁的男孩拖到沙漠里观看原子弹爆炸，或者当你的工作涉及违法时带你的孩子去工作，这意味着什么。
How do you even quantify exactly what that does to a person?
您如何准确量化这对一个人的影响？
Well, today, we try to figure that out.
好吧，今天，我们试图弄清楚这一点。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We got the idea for this week's show from this thing that happened to one of our producers, Neil Drumming, a realization that he came to an adulthood about a TV show that he'd watched as a kid.
我们本周节目的创意来自我们的制作人之一尼尔·德鲁明（Neil Drumming）身上发生的一件事，他意识到自己是因为小时候看过的一部电视节目而长大的。
Here's Neil.
这是尼尔。
The hit TV show, "The Dukes of Hazzard," ran from 1979 to 1985.
热门电视节目《哈扎德公爵》从 1979 年播出到 1985 年。
It starred John Schneider and Tom Wopat as Bo and Luke Duke, two rakish, good ol' boys trying to stay on the right side of the law in rural Georgia.
该剧由约翰·施奈德和汤姆·沃帕特饰演波·杜克和卢克·杜克，这两个放荡的好男孩在佐治亚州的乡村试图保持法律的正确一面。
But if you ask any man my age who was a fan of the show, "The Dukes of Hazzard's" true star was a bright orange 1969 Dodge Charger nicknamed the General Lee.
但如果你问我这个年纪的人谁是这部剧的粉丝，《哈扎德公爵》真正的明星是一辆亮橙色的 1969 年道奇 Charger，绰号“李将军”。
Every week on CBS, the General Lee would roar through country backroads, leaping over virtually everything, defying the laws of physics, and blowing little boys' minds across America.
每周，在哥伦比亚广播公司的节目中，李将军都会咆哮着穿过乡村小路，跳过几乎所有的东西，挑战物理定律，让美国各地的小男孩们大吃一惊。
I had a General Lee.
我身边有一个李将军。
Neil Drumming In what, like, a Matchbox or a Hot Wheels?
尼尔用什么东西打鼓，比如火柴盒或风火轮？
No, I had a straight up, like, the plastic joint.
不，我有一个直立的塑料接头。
You know, whatever, go around.
你知道，无论如何，到处走走。
Drive it over your dad's foot, and he'd get angry.
把它压在你爸爸的脚上，他会生气的。
Like that size.
就像那个尺寸。
This is one of my favorite rappers, Breeze Brewin.
这是我最喜欢的说唱歌手之一，Breeze Brewin。
He's from the Bronx.
他来自布朗克斯。
Like me, he watched "The Dukes of Hazzard" faithfully as a boy.
和我一样，他小时候也忠实地观看了《哈扎德公爵》。
We both had "Dukes of Hazzard" lunch boxes, and we were both proud owners of miniature versions of the General Lee.
我们都有“哈扎德公爵”午餐盒，而且我们都自豪地拥有缩小版的李将军。
Back then, it was probably one of the most coveted toys any kid in either of our neighborhoods could possess.
当时，它可能是我们两个社区的孩子们最梦寐以求的玩具之一。
I remember the bully of the neighborhood stole mine and tried to pretend it was his.
我记得邻居的恶霸偷了我的，并试图假装是他的。
I hate when that happens.
我讨厌这种事发生。
This is mine, right?
这是我的，对吗？
I'm like, no, it's definitely not.
我想，不，绝对不是。
The General Lee was remarkable.
李将军是了不起的。
Not just because it was both fast and furious before that was a thing, but because its rooftop was emblazoned with the Confederate flag.
不仅因为它在此之前既快速又激烈，还因为它的屋顶上印有南方联盟旗帜。
As kids, Black kids, pushing our mini American muscle along the carpets and concrete of New York City, neither Breeze nor I saw anything bothersome about that bold symbol up top.
当孩子们，黑人孩子们，在纽约市的地毯和混凝土上推动我们的迷你美国肌肉时，微风和我都没有看到顶部那个大胆的符号有什么麻烦。
In fact, for us at the time, the rebel flag was just part of what made the car so damn cool.
事实上，对于当时的我们来说，叛逆旗帜只是让这辆车如此酷的一部分。
There was a kid in my neighborhood, Irish kid.
我家附近有一个孩子，爱尔兰孩子。
He had an orange Dodge Challenger 440, no flag on the top.
他有一辆橙色的道奇挑战者 440，车顶上没有旗帜。
I remember a lot of us were like, damn, he need to throw the flag on top of that bad boy.
我记得我们很多人都想，该死，他需要把旗帜扔到那个坏男孩身上。
Wait, it was a real car, or it was a toy?
等等，这是一辆真车，还是一个玩具？
No, he drove that bad boy, and you heard him coming down the block.
不，他开着那个坏男孩，你听到他沿着街区过来。
You're just like, that car would be dope.
你就像，那辆车太棒了。
That car would be dope if he had that flag on that bad boy.
如果那个坏男孩身上挂着那面旗帜，那辆车就太棒了。
I got the idea to talk to Breeze about this because, in 2001, as part of his group, the Juggaknots, he wrote and released a song called "Generally." It's spelled like the adverb, but a play on the name of the Dukes' prized racer.
我之所以想和 Breeze 讨论这个问题，是因为 2001 年，作为他的乐队 Juggaknots 的一员，他创作并发行了一首名为“Generally”的歌曲。它的拼写就像副词一样，但却是对杜克队的珍贵赛车手的名字的玩笑。
I don't remember exactly when I heard the song, but by then, it had been over 15 years since "The Dukes of Hazzard" went off the air.
我不太记得是什么时候听到这首歌的，但那时距离《哈扎德公爵》停播已经过去 15 年多了。
I hadn't thought about the show or the car in ages.
我已经很久没有想过这个节目或汽车了。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "GENERALLY" BY JUGGAKNOTS]
[音乐播放 - JUGGAKNOTS 的“一般”]
That was my favorite, y'all.
那是我最喜欢的，你们大家。
General Lee.
李将军。
They was them good ol' boys.
他们是好孩子。
General Lee.
李将军。
They wasn't meaning no harm.
他们并不是没有恶意。
General Lee.
李将军。
You watched the show.
你看了节目。
You had the toys.
你有玩具。
I'm pretty sure that when I was in my 20s and heard "Generally," well, that was the first time I put two and two together and realized, oh, wait.
我很确定，当我 20 多岁的时候，听到“一般来说”，嗯，那是我第一次把两个和两个放在一起，然后意识到，哦，等等。
One of my favorite toys growing up actually bore an unabashed affront to my humanity and freedom.
我成长过程中最喜欢的玩具之一实际上公然侮辱了我的人性和自由。
The flag on the roof-- how the hell did I miss that?
屋顶上的旗帜——我怎么会错过呢？
Listening to the song again recently, I thought maybe it was about Breeze himself coming to that same realization.
最近再次听这首歌，我想也许 Breeze 自己也有同样的认识。
We are the same age after all.
我们毕竟是同龄人。
But when he and I met to talk about it, Breeze said he'd recognized the inherent put down in the General Lee's paint job by the time he was in high school.
但当他和我见面谈论这件事时，布雷兹说，他在高中时就认识到李将军油漆工作中固有的贬低。
He was actually inspired to write "Generally" a few years later, after he'd had kids of his own.
几年后，当他有了自己的孩子后，他实际上受到了写《一般》的启发。
One day, he took them on a shopping trip.
有一天，他带他们去购物。
I was literally in Toys "R" Us, probably on Gun Hill Road near Co-op City, or the one in Yonkers on Central Ave, and kids losing their shh, looking for toys, and me questioning, like, what's up with these toys?
我确实在玩具“反”斗城里，可能在合作城附近的枪山路，或者在中央大街的扬克斯，孩子们失去了嘘声，寻找玩具，我问，比如，这些玩具怎么了？
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
Breeze Brewin And then I see the General Lee.
微风布鲁温 然后我看到了李将军。
The iconic roadster was back on the shelves, being pushed on a new generation to promote some TV movie relaunch.
这款标志性跑车重新上架，被推向新一代，以促进一些电视电影的重新推出。
Do you remember it?
你还记得吗？
Breeze Brewin What, the song?
Breeze Brewin 什么，这首歌？
Oh, man, it's tough.
哦，伙计，这很难。
I'm 43.
我43岁了。
(RAPPING) You drive me batty.
（说唱）你让我抓狂。
Daddy's survivin' and be seeming slimmin', screaming women.
爸爸活了下来，而且看起来很瘦，女人都在尖叫。
Could the sound be more annoying?
声音还能更烦人吗？
The thing I love about Breeze is that he writes these dense, clever, impressionistic rhymes that sound like words tumbling down stairs.
我喜欢微风的一点是，他写下了这些密集、巧妙、印象派的押韵，听起来就像文字从楼梯上滚下来一样。
In this first verse, he's telling the story of that trip to Toys "R" Us, building the scene of a frustrated parent overwhelmed by toys and demanding children.
在这首诗中，他讲述了那次玩具“反”斗城之旅的故事，构建了一个沮丧的父母被玩具和要求过高的孩子压垮的场景。
(RAPPING) Baggin' all these whack toys, trying to lack noise, peace and quiet.
（说唱）装进所有这些笨重的玩具，试图消除噪音、平和与安静。
Cease a riot constructively.
建设性地停止骚乱。
Then what I see?
然后我看到了什么？
The General Lee.
李将军。
And I said, you know what?
我说，你知道吗？
I need to explore this idea, like why do they think that was OK?
我需要探索这个想法，比如为什么他们认为这样可以？
Why do they think that they could show this image and make us champion that image?
为什么他们认为他们可以展示这个形象并让我们拥护这个形象？
Why is it OK to make our pain this pop icon?
为什么可以让我们的痛苦成为流行偶像？
Why was it OK?
为什么没问题？
I just wanted to attack it, that you would have the audacity to do that.
我只是想攻击一下，你竟敢这么做。
I was just thinking, not with my kids.
我只是在想，没有和我的孩子们在一起。
So then you go-- so then there's the chorus after that, right?
那么接下来就是副歌了，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
So the chorus it's like, (RAPPING) the General Lee, representing for your clan.
所以合唱团就像是，（说唱）李将军，代表你们的氏族。
The General Lee, for real, somebody pulled a fast one.
李将军，确实，有人拉得很快。
The General Lee, now, I'm starting to overstand.
李将军，现在我开始明白了。
The General Lee wasn't the first, won't be the last one.
李将军不是第一个，也不会是最后一个。
I love that line, "somebody pulled a fast one," just because it's nice.
我喜欢这句话，“有人拉得很快”，只是因为它很好听。
It's like, the car is fast, and it's like a really-- it's a really nice one.
就像，这辆车很快，而且真的是一辆非常好的车。
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
Neil Drumming It's very slick.
尼尔打鼓 非常流畅。
I mean, it's pretty blatant.
我的意思是，这非常明目张胆。
It's the hoodwinking.
这就是忽悠啊
Yeah.
是的。
Breeze Brewin They got over, you know?
微风布鲁温 他们已经过去了，你知道吗？
They normalized it, for better or for worse.
无论好坏，他们都将其正常化。
It's a huge screw you, you know?
这是一个巨大的螺丝钉，你知道吗？
It's like, we're going to do this.
就像，我们要做这件事。
You're not going to say nothing.
你不会什么也不说。
We're going to put it on prime time TV.
我们将把它放在电视黄金时段。
We're going to put it in Toys "R" Us.
我们要把它放在玩具“反”斗城里。
In fact, you're going to buy it.
事实上，你会买它。
So it's like-- in the song, I say, "But sell my L.
所以就像——在歌曲中，我说，“但是卖掉我的 L.
Sell my loss."
卖掉我的损失。”
Of course, at seven, eight, nine years old, it wasn't Breeze and I controlling the TV remote or spending our hard-earned cash.
当然，在七岁、八岁、九岁的时候，我和微风并不是在控制电视遥控器，也不是在花我们辛苦赚来的钱。
It was ultimately our parents who let us watch the show and bought us the toys.
最终是我们的父母让我们看节目并给我们买了玩具。
Considering that both my parents were born and raised in rural South Carolina and experienced chilling racism firsthand, you'd think they would have objected to the Dukes and their General Lee.
考虑到我的父母都在南卡罗来纳州的农村出生和长大，并亲身经历了令人毛骨悚然的种族主义，你可能会认为他们会反对杜克家族和他们的李将军。
But they didn't.
但他们没有。
Breeze's parents, who are from the Caribbean, they didn't either.
微风的父母来自加勒比海，但他们也不是。
He has a theory as to what our parents were thinking.
他对我们父母的想法有一个理论。
I think, you know, it's a lot about, I don't want my kids to be left out.
我想，你知道，这很重要，我不想让我的孩子被排除在外。
I don't want my kids to be weird.
我不希望我的孩子变得奇怪。
It was a number one show.
这是一场排名第一的演出。
So it was like, you know, why deny them that?
所以这就像是，你知道，为什么要否认他们呢？
OK, this is important.
好的，这很重要。
On TV, the doors on the General Lee were welded shut, as is common with a lot of stock race cars.
在电视上，李将军的车门被焊接关闭，这在许多库存赛车中很常见。
So Bo and Luke Duke were constantly hopping through the windows.
所以波和卢克·杜克不断地从窗户跳出去。
It was the only way in or out of the car.
这是进出汽车的唯一途径。
Here's Breeze with the song's final verse.
这是 Breeze 带来的歌曲的最后一段歌词。
(RAPPING) Disturbable to see what we was murdered to when it coulda, shoulda been a convertible.
（饶舌声）看到我们被谋杀成这样的样子真是令人不安，因为它本来可以、应该是一辆敞篷车。
I started off with like, you know what?
我一开始就想，你知道吗？
You was constantly jumping in and out of the windows.
你不断地从窗户跳进跳出。
It would have made more sense and been more practical to have been a convertible.
如果是敞篷车的话会更有意义、更实用。
Just cut the top off.
把顶部剪掉就可以了。
Chop the top off.
把顶部切掉。
But you needed it.
但你需要它。
You needed the top of the car.
你需要车顶。
You needed to show that image, because that's the pimpery.
你需要展示那个图像，因为那是皮疹。
That's the game.
这就是游戏。
I get it.
我得到它。
Y'all wanted to see it.
你们都想看。
Here it is.
这里是。
(RAPPING) Disturbable to see what we was murdered to when it coulda, shoulda been a convertible.
（饶舌声）看到我们被谋杀成这样的样子真是令人不安，因为它本来可以、应该是一辆敞篷车。
See that they're climbing through the windows and go make better time and do the pro hopping, but no stopping.
看到他们爬过窗户，然后去争取更好的时间并进行职业跳跃，但不要停下来。
Commercial use is the issue.
商业用途是个问题。
They get you with decals.
他们给你贴上贴花。
Match the lunchbox, pajamas.
搭配饭盒、睡衣。
You wanna snatch the bunch.
你想抢走这群人。
Lock that be wild, generally praise the stuff, crave the stuff, slaves to stuff.
锁是狂野的，通常赞美东西，渴望东西，东西的奴隶。
Get it for me, begging, like, please.
求你帮我拿一下，求你了。
So now with that, I talked about how I would beg my parents for it.
所以现在，我谈到了我将如何向我的父母乞求。
But then it's just, like, sporting the pain, you know what I mean?
但接下来，就像是在承受痛苦，你明白我的意思吗？
Like, you were sporting my pain, and it's literally a comedy.
就像，你在炫耀我的痛苦，这简直就是一部喜剧。
(RAPPING) Sportin' the pain.
（说唱）炫耀痛苦。
Sure was a brainwashed kid, but never had a fad with rockin' a swastika.
当然是一个被洗脑的孩子，但从来没有热衷于摇滚纳粹标志。
Of course, Nazi.
当然是纳粹。
But that I'd rather not see.
但我宁愿不看到。
The closest that I got be seek Haile Selassie.
我最接近的是寻找海尔·塞拉西。
But sell my L, see it's nothing than this double standard.
但卖掉我的L，看看这只不过是双重标准。
Trouble, be it something candid or this subtle.
麻烦，无论是坦白的还是微妙的。
Gun the flag down.
用枪把国旗降下来。
What?
什么？
No hesitating.
毫不犹豫。
Gutter regulation, fuck the legislation.
阴沟监管，去他妈的立法。
But now, some of y'all walking around like, for shame, word, as I wonder what the murderers of James Byrd thought about the General Lee.
但现在，你们中的一些人却羞愧地四处走动，我想知道杀害詹姆斯·伯德的凶手对李将军有何看法。
In 1998, James Byrd, a Black man in Texas, was badly beaten and pissed on by three white supremacists.
1998年，德克萨斯州黑人詹姆斯·伯德遭到三名白人至上主义者的殴打和愤怒。
The men then chained Byrd by his ankles to a pickup truck and dragged him over asphalt for roughly three miles.
随后，这些人将伯德的脚踝锁在一辆皮卡车上，将他拖过柏油路大约三英里。
Byrd died when his head and arm were severed from his body.
伯德的头和手臂与身体分离后死亡。
The white supremacists, who sported various Nazi and confederate symbols, dumped Byrd's mutilated body near a Black church.
带有各种纳粹和南方邦联标志的白人至上主义者将伯德残缺不全的尸体扔在一座黑人教堂附近。
This atrocity was heavy on Breeze's mind when he wrote "General Lee," which is why the last verse ends in anger.
当微风写下《李将军》时，这种暴行深深地印在他的脑海里，这就是为什么最后一节诗以愤怒结尾。
As he says, gun the flag down, no hesitating.
正如他所说，毫不犹豫地把旗帜放下。
I kind of was like, I know some people are going to be like, Breeze, you're wildin'.
我有点像，我知道有些人会说，微风，你太疯狂了。
You're talking about shooting down a flag.
你说的是击落一面旗帜。
You should go through the right channels.
你应该通过正确的渠道。
There's legislation.
有立法。
[LAUGHS] But I'm like, word?
[笑]但我想，单词？
Well, what do the murderers of James Byrd think about the General Lee?
那么，杀害詹姆斯·伯德的凶手对李将军有什么看法呢？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
It's just like, at some point, we gotta kill your idols.
就像，在某个时候，我们必须杀死你的偶像。
We gotta burn your idols.
我们得烧掉你的偶像。
So you were saying-- you told me that you were-- you've been thinking about this song a lot lately.
所以你说——你告诉我你是——你最近一直在思考这首歌。
Literally, like a week before you called, I was listening to the song and I almost got a little choked up.
从字面上看，就像你打电话前一周，我正在听这首歌，我几乎有点哽咽。
Because like, god damn, you know what I mean?
因为就像，该死的，你知道我的意思吗？
It's like, 16 years later, why is it still an issue?
就像，16年后，为什么它仍然是一个问题？
I'd like to think, come on, you're better than that now, America.
我想，来吧，美国，你现在比以前更好了。
That said, I can't help but harbor a little bit of nostalgia for the General Lee.
话虽如此，我还是忍不住对李将军怀有一丝怀念。
Not so much for the thing itself, but for what it represents for me-- a time before I could possibly recognize the insidiousness of its design, before I really understood its origins or how that history has shaped me and the people I care about, back when all I really had to worry about was who had the coolest toy on the block.
与其说是为了这个东西本身，不如说是因为它对我来说代表了什么——在我可能认识到它的设计的阴险之前，在我真正理解它的起源或者这段历史如何塑造了我和我关心的人之前，当时我真正需要担心的是谁拥有街上最酷的玩具。
Neil Drumming.
尼尔打鼓。
These days, he works at our sister company, Serial, making podcasts.
如今，他在我们的姐妹公司 Serial 工作，制作播客。
Today's show is a rerun.
今天的节目是重播。
I honestly believe they should have changed the name, Robert E.
老实说，我相信他们应该改个名字，Robert E.
Lee High School, a very long time ago-- probably after, you know, '90s, early 2000s.
李高中，很久以前的事了——可能是在 90 年代、2000 年代初之后。
That's Joralen Mauldin.
那是乔拉伦·莫尔丁。
When we talked to her for today's program, she was 16 years old, a member of the drill team at Robert E.
当我们在今天的节目中采访她时，她 16 岁，是 Robert E.
Lee High School in Tyler, Texas-- a Black girl with a blond afro, which, on Fridays, would be tucked under a white cowboy hat, part of her drill team uniform.
得克萨斯州泰勒的李高中——一个留着金发爆炸头的黑人女孩，每周五都会把头发塞在白色牛仔帽下，这是她训练队制服的一部分。
She talked to B.A.
她与 B.A. 进行了交谈。
Parker.
帕克.
I love being on this team.
我喜欢加入这个团队。
I love the girls who are on here.
我喜欢这里的女孩们。
But you know, the history is still-- you know, it's there at the back of my mind.
但你知道，历史仍然存在——你知道，它就在我的脑海里。
And I know a lot of it, it doesn't really bother that many people, but it's still something that I find that gets to me.
我知道很多，它并没有真正困扰很多人，但我发现它仍然让我感动。
That history is that Robert E.
这段历史就是罗伯特·E.
Lee High School was founded in 1958, four years after "Brown versus Board of Education," as a place for white students to go to avoid integration.
李高中成立于 1958 年，即“布朗诉教育委员会案”四年后，作为白人学生避免融入社会的地方。
The town gave it the name Robert E.
该镇将其命名为罗伯特·E.
Lee as a way to give the finger to the Civil Rights movement.
李以此来指责民权运动。
The school prided itself on having this massive Confederate flag-- allegedly, the second-largest Confederate flag in the world.
学校以拥有这面巨大的南部邦联旗帜而自豪——据称，这是世界上第二大南部邦联旗帜。
It took 20 people to carry it.
需要20个人才能搬运。
Then in the 1970s, the courts ordered the town to integrate the high school.
然后在 20 世纪 70 年代，法院命令该镇整合高中。
These days, 60% of the school was Black and Latino.
如今，学校 60% 的学生是黑人和拉丁裔。
Though in Tyler, it is still referred to as the white high school.
尽管在泰勒，它仍然被称为白人高中。
When they announce the name of the school at the beginning of games, Joralen says, she just kind of blocks it out.
乔拉伦说，当他们在比赛开始时宣布学校的名称时，她只是将其屏蔽掉。
She found out about the school's history a little while ago.
她不久前了解到了学校的历史。
I learned this last year, I believe, because we have memory books.
我相信我去年学到了这一点，因为我们有记忆书。
And it dates back all the way to when Lee first opened, and we were flipping through one of the very first ones.
它可以追溯到 Lee 刚开业的时候，当时我们正在翻阅最早的其中一个。
And that was when I saw the uniforms and all the traditions that they used to have, the Southern Belle Drill Team and our Bell Guards.
就在那时，我看到了南方美女训练队和我们的钟卫队的制服和他们曾经拥有的所有传统。
They were called the Rebels and the Rebelettes, and they did wear Confederate uniform style of clothing and things like that, and they proudly displayed their Confederate flag.
他们被称为叛军和反叛者，他们确实穿着南部邦联统一风格的服装和类似的东西，并且他们自豪地展示他们的南部邦联旗帜。
And it just shocked me, and all I could think about was, what?
这让我很震惊，我所能想到的就是，什么？
Like, for real?
就像，真的吗？
Y'all are kidding me right now.
你们现在都在跟我开玩笑。
They tried to make us learn it, but I never memorized it.
他们试图让我们学习它，但我从来没有记住它。
The school song starts with the lyrics, "Robert E.
校歌的开头是这样的歌词：“Robert E.
Lee, we raise our voices in praise of your name.
李，我们高声赞美你的名字。
May honor and glory guide you to fame."
愿荣誉和荣耀引导你走向成名。”
Have you ever-- have ever looked at the lyrics of it?
你有没有看过它的歌词？
I've looked at the lyrics, which is why I haven't tried to memorize it.
我看过歌词，所以我没有尝试去记住它。
Would you ever sing it?
你会唱这首歌吗？
Joralen Mauldin Never in my life, never.
乔拉伦·莫尔丁 我一生中从来没有，从来没有。
There's one lyric in the school song-- "Our memories will bind us to Robert E.
校歌中有一首歌词——“我们的记忆将把我们与罗伯特·E.
Lee." That part definitely seemed true back when we first aired this story in 2017.
李。”当我们 2017 年首次播出这个故事时，这部分内容似乎确实是正确的。
Then, in 2020, one year after Joralen graduated, the school district actually changed the name of the school to Tyler Legacy High School.
然后，到了 2020 年，也就是乔拉伦毕业一年后，学区实际上将学校的名称改为泰勒遗产高中 (Tyler Legacy High School)。
Joralen, by the way, is not crazy about that name either.
顺便说一句，乔拉伦也不喜欢这个名字。
She says, "Legacy" is a nod to the school's Confederate legacy.
她说，“遗产”是对学校的南部邦联遗产的认可。
She says she would have gone with something neutral-- like, for instance, Rose City High.
她说她会选择一些中性的学校，比如玫瑰城高中。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "WAITING FOR THE ROBERT E.
[音乐播放 - “等待罗伯特·E.
LEE" BY DEAN MARTIN]
李”，作者：迪恩·马丁]
Way down on the levee in old Alabammy, there's daddy and mammy.
在老阿拉巴米的大堤上，有爸爸和妈妈。
There's Efraim and Sammy.
埃夫拉姆和萨米。
On a moonlight night, you can find them all.
在月夜，你可以找到它们。
While they're awaiting, the banjos are syncopating.
当他们等待时，班卓琴正在切分音。
What's that they're sayin'?
他们在说什么？
What's that they're sayin'?
他们在说什么？
But while they keep playing, I'm humming and swayin'.
但当他们继续演奏时，我却在哼唱、摇摆。
It's the good ship "Robert E.
这是好船“罗伯特·E.
Lee" that's come to carry the cotton away.
李”是来把棉花运走的。
So there are over 200 public schools around the country named after Confederate leaders and over 700 monuments memorializing the confederacy in public places.
因此，全国有 200 多所公立学校以南方邦联领导人的名字命名，公共场所有 700 多座纪念南方邦联的纪念碑。
Those numbers come from a database run by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
这些数字来自南方贫困法律中心运营的数据库。
Of course, many other statues have been taken down in the last few years.
当然，在过去几年中，许多其他雕像已被拆除。
The Statue of Robert E.
罗伯特·E·罗伯特的雕像
Lee was removed just this week in Richmond.
本周李在里士满被免职。
But for all this commemoration of white experience of life in the South before and during the Civil War, there's actually not that much out there memorializing the Black experience.
但是，尽管有这么多对南北战争之前和期间南方白人生活经历的纪念，但实际上并没有那么多纪念黑人经历的东西。
One of the few places is in Baltimore.
巴尔的摩是为数不多的几个地方之一。
I have to say, I was surprised to learn it was there.
我不得不说，当我得知它在那里时，我感到很惊讶。
I grew up in Baltimore, and OK, this came into existence after I moved away.
我在巴尔的摩长大，好吧，这在我搬走后就出现了。
But I'm back in Baltimore regularly to see family, though I had never heard of it, until B.A.
But I'm back in Baltimore regularly to see family, though I had never heard of it, until B.A.
Parker, who was a producer at our program-- and who also grew up in Baltimore, not far from where I grew up-- told me about it.
帕克是我们节目的制片人，也是在巴尔的摩长大，离我长大的地方不远，他告诉了我这件事。
Here she is.
她在这里。
Every Black kid in Baltimore knows this place.
巴尔的摩的每个黑人孩子都知道这个地方。
Most of us went there on field trips when we were in school or were taken there by an earnest parent.
我们大多数人在上学时都去过那里进行实地考察，或者被热心的父母带到那里。
It's called the National Great Blacks in Wax Museum.
它被称为国家大黑人蜡像馆。
That's great Blacks, and they're rendered in wax.
That's great Blacks, and they're rendered in wax.
It's the first Black History wax museum in the country.
It's the first Black History wax museum in the country.
I first went there on a field trip in the third grade and, for better or worse, it's been stuck in my memory ever since.
I first went there on a field trip in the third grade and, for better or worse, it's been stuck in my memory ever since.
To be honest, it scared the shit out of me.
说实话，这把我吓坏了。
It's violent and graphic, and unlike any other museum I've ever been to.
It's violent and graphic, and unlike any other museum I've ever been to.
And its main clientele was children.
它的主要顾客是儿童。
Even today, I can talk to anybody who grew up Black and in Baltimore, and if you bring up the Blacks in Wax, they'll be like, yeah, that was messed up, right?
即使在今天，我也可以和任何在巴尔的摩长大的黑人交谈，如果你提起蜡像馆里的黑人，他们会说，是的，那是一团糟，对吧？
Texting with friends and family about this last week, I got messages like, "I had nightmares" and "I started to tear up" and "I can still see it in my head." I wanted to go back to the museum to see if it was as bad as I remembered.
上周，我给朋友和家人发短信谈论此事，收到的信息包括“我做了噩梦”、“我开始流泪”和“我的脑海中仍然可以看到它”。我想回到博物馆看看它是否像我记忆中的那么糟糕。
There's a crowd of people from a bus coming in.
一群人从公交车上进来。
Oh, there's a couple kids.
哦，有几个孩子。
B.A.
学士
Parker So I went back there recently with my colleague, Sean Cole.
帕克 所以我最近和我的同事肖恩·科尔一起回到了那里。
The museum itself is an old fire station and three row houses fused into one building.
博物馆本身是一个古老的消防站和三排房屋融合成一栋建筑。
In the lobby, the wax figures of W.E.B.
大堂里有 W.E.B. 的蜡像。
DuBois and Carter G.
杜波依斯和卡特 G.
Woodson are there to greet you.
伍德森在那里迎接您。
Next to the ticket booth is a figure of the great military general Hannibal, riding a massive elephant.
Next to the ticket booth is a figure of the great military general Hannibal, riding a massive elephant.
And up over ahead is the first Black female pilot, Bessie Coleman.
And up over ahead is the first Black female pilot, Bessie Coleman.
Oh, I didn't even see.
哦，我也没看到。
There's an airplane above us.
我们头顶上有一架飞机。
There is an airplane above us with, like, a cool chick in it with her shades on, and she's taking no one's mess.
There is an airplane above us with, like, a cool chick in it with her shades on, and she's taking no one's mess.
The lobby's awe-inspiring and stuff, but then you buy your ticket and actually enter the museum.
The lobby's awe-inspiring and stuff, but then you buy your ticket and actually enter the museum.
Then everything changes.
然后一切都会改变。
A quick warning-- there's a lot of violence of all sorts in what follows.
A quick warning-- there's a lot of violence of all sorts in what follows.
It might not be for everyone.
它可能不适合所有人。
When you step inside the museum, it's dark.
当你走进博物馆时，天已经黑了。
Immediately to the right, there's a wax figure of a slave.
右边有一个奴隶的蜡像。
He's on his knees, his teeth knocked out, and he's being held down by two white slavers who pull his head back.
他跪在地上，牙齿被打掉，两个白人奴隶把他按在地上，把他的头向后拉。
They've shoved a long funnel into his mouth and are pouring gruel through it, force feeding him.
他们把一个长漏斗塞进他嘴里，然后往里面倒稀粥，强行灌食。
Brown gruel spills out of his mouth.
棕色的稀粥从他嘴里流出来。
As an act of rebellion, some slaves wouldn't eat, so the slavers made them.
作为一种叛逆行为，一些奴隶不肯吃东西，所以奴隶贩子就做了它们。
This is the very first thing you see.
这是你看到的第一件事。
And then to the left, is one of the museum's signature attractions.
然后左边是博物馆的标志性景点之一。
All right, so do you want to go into the slave ship?
好吧，那么你想进入奴隶船吗？
They've built a facsimile of a slave ship into the museum.
他们在博物馆里建造了一艘奴隶船的复制品。
It's not that big, about the size of a large trailer.
它没有那么大，大约有一辆大拖车那么大。
But when I was eight, it seemed enormous.
但当我八岁的时候，它看起来非常巨大。
Back then, walking down to the hold below was like walking onto an amusement park ride, only the opposite of fun.
那时，步行到下面的货舱就像走上游乐园的游乐设施，只是乐趣相反。
At the entrance, there are two white wax slave merchants, both impeccably dressed.
入口处，有两个白蜡奴隶商人，两人都衣着无可挑剔。
One sits behind a desk.
一个人坐在桌子后面。
It used to be that when you stepped onto the stairs, a recording would play, one of the merchants announcing, "New load of slaves coming aboard now." At eight, I understood.
过去，当你走上楼梯时，就会播放一段录音，其中一位商人宣布：“现在有新一批奴隶上船了。”八岁时，我明白了。
They meant me.
他们指的是我。
I was supposed to be a new slave.
我本来应该成为一个新奴隶。
I burst into tears.
我泪流满面。
At first, I refused to go all the way down into the ship.
起初，我拒绝一路下船。
But the other kids did it, so I did it too.
但其他孩子都这么做了，所以我也这么做了。
And what I saw when I got to the bottom of the steps was what I was seeing now, another vicious looking white man.
当我走到台阶底部时，我看到的就是我现在看到的，另一个面容凶恶的白人。
And he's branding a slave woman who has a chain around her neck and, like, placing the brand on her shoulder.
他给一个脖子上挂着链子的女奴隶打上烙印，就像把烙印放在她的肩膀上一样。
And she's fully nude and covered in blood.
她全身赤裸，浑身是血。
Jeez, it's just-- pure agony is on her face.
天哪，她的脸上充满了纯粹的痛苦。
And he looks like he's full of hate and anger, and is just ready to torture someone.
而且他看起来充满了仇恨和愤怒，正准备折磨某人。
None of this has changed.
这一切都没有改变。
There's collections on shelves of just parts of bodies bloodied.
架子上收藏的只是沾满血的尸体的一部分。
Being eaten by rats.
被老鼠吃掉。
That should be noted.
应当注意这一点。
Like, there's one under-- like, below, that's dismembered and being eaten by rats.
就像，下面有一个——就像下面，它被肢解并被老鼠吃掉。
The museum goes for an intense realism.
博物馆追求强烈的现实主义风格。
It doesn't leave anything out.
它没有遗漏任何东西。
It's over the top in a way that's almost campy.
这有点夸张了，几乎有点夸张。
This is probably because the wax figures all were made in the 1970s.
这可能是因为蜡像都是20世纪70年代制作的。
The slavers have mutton chops.
奴隶贩子有羊排。
A few of the slaves look more like they're from "Good Times" than from "Roots." But the scenes are always based on documented atrocities.
一些奴隶看起来更像是来自“好时光”而不是“根源”。但这些场景总是基于有记录的暴行。
At a certain point in the slave ship, I turn around, and I see the entire wall behind me is one huge mirror.
在奴隶船上的某个时刻，我转身，我看到我身后的整面墙都是一面巨大的镜子。
And then I see the chained-up slaves and I'm forced to look at myself.
然后我看到了被锁链锁住的奴隶，我被迫审视自己。
And it comes home to me in an instant that these people are my ancestors.
我立刻意识到这些人是我的祖先。
Without the torture, without the sorrow, without the misery that they endured during the Middle Passage, there would be no me.
没有他们在中途所经受的折磨、悲伤、痛苦，就不会有我。
So what do you remember from when you were a kid and seeing this?
那么当你还是个孩子的时候，看到这个你还记得什么？
I remember, like, being confused, right, and being scared.
我记得，我很困惑，对，也很害怕。
The fact that it's someone who's my skin, my-- you don't have the language for it.
事实上，这是我的皮肤，我的——你无法用语言来形容。
But it is, like, a pause and reflect, and your eyes grow wide.
但这就像一个暂停和反思，你的眼睛睁大了。
And you're trying to understand what it means.
你正试图理解它的含义。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I just got distracted by them trying to shove the guy in the oven.
我只是因为他们试图把那家伙推进烤箱而分心。
Sorry.
对不起。
What?
什么？
What?
什么？
B.A.
学士
Parker No, that's the Underground Railroad.
帕克：不，那是地下铁路。
It's a fake oven.
这是一个假烤箱。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
B.A.
学士
Parker There was an exhibit behind Sean of a white man helping his runaway slave escape through an oven with a door in the back, allowing him to slip through from one house to another and another.
帕克在肖恩身后有一个展览，一名白人帮助他逃跑的奴隶从后面有一扇门的烤箱里逃走，让他从一栋房子溜到另一栋房子。
As a kid, it wasn't like I was unfamiliar with Black history.
作为一个孩子，我对黑人历史并不陌生。
By the third grade, I had already been to the plantation in North Carolina where my ancestors were sold.
到三年级时，我已经去过北卡罗来纳州的种植园，那里出售了我的祖先。
I was obsessed with Thurgood Marshall.
我对瑟古德·马歇尔很着迷。
I wanted to be him.
我想成为他。
I wanted to marry him, everything.
我想嫁给他，一切。
And my elementary school made such a big deal about Martin Luther King every year.
我的小学每年都会大肆宣传马丁·路德·金。
And I once got to play one of Coretta Scott King's bridesmaids in an assembly.
我曾经在一次集会上扮演科雷塔·斯科特·金的伴娘之一。
But it was exactly that, the elementary school version of Black history-- Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, the coloring book of greatest hits, not the brutal reality.
但这正是小学版的黑人历史——金博士、纳尔逊·曼德拉、罗莎·帕克斯、最热门的图画书，而不是残酷的现实。
But none of this compares to what you see in the museum's basement.
但这一切都无法与您在博物馆地下室看到的相比。
The basement is so intense that the museum has posted a sign outside of it, warning that you shouldn't go into it until you're at least 12.
地下室非常拥挤，以至于博物馆在外面贴了一个标志，警告你在 12 岁以上之前不要进入其中。
Under 16, you need a chaperone.
16岁以下，您需要一名监护人。
We headed there, past Henry Box Brown, the slave who mailed himself to freedom in a box.
我们朝那里走去，经过亨利·博克斯·布朗（Henry Box Brown），他是一个用盒子邮寄自己以获得自由的奴隶。
When I was a kid, he'd pop out and wave.
当我还是个孩子的时候，他会突然出现并挥手。
But it startled too many kids, and they don't do that anymore.
但这让太多孩子感到震惊，他们不再这样做了。
We walked past Henry to the top of the basement stairs.
我们经过亨利，走到地下室楼梯的顶部。
All right, so we're going to go downstairs to the lynching exhibit.
好吧，我们要下楼去看私刑展览。
I didn't see the lynching exhibit when I was eight.
我八岁时没有看到私刑展览。
I saw it on a second field trip, when I was a freshman in high school.
我在第二次实地考察时看到了它，当时我还是高中一年级的学生。
I still don't think I was ready.
我仍然认为我还没有准备好。
I don't think I was ready now.
我想我现在还没有准备好。
It starts off when you're still walking down the stairs, with historical photos and newspaper clippings of actual lynchings as recent as 1998.
当你还在走下楼梯时，故事就开始了，里面有历史照片和 1998 年实际私刑的剪报。
Black people hanging from trees, set on fire, dragged by trucks.
黑人被吊在树上、被点燃、被卡车拖走。
Photos of the dead surrounded by crowds of white spectators all decked out in their Sunday best.
死者的照片被一群穿着周日盛装的白人观众包围着。
Smiling little girls with the ribbons in their hair, looking at the camera, some with pride, a man hanging from a tree behind them.
头发上别着丝带的小女孩微笑着看着镜头，有些自豪，一个男人挂在她们身后的树上。
Then at the bottom of the stairs, as soon as you round the corner--
然后在楼梯底部，一拐过拐角——
Do you want me to describe what's happening here?
你想让我描述一下这里发生的事情吗？
In front of us was a husband and wife named Hayes and Mary Turner.
在我们面前的是一对名叫海耶斯和玛丽·特纳的夫妻。
They lived in Georgia.
他们住在乔治亚州。
Back in 1918, a local Black man had killed the plantation owner.
早在 1918 年，当地一名黑人就杀害了种植园主。
And when the Sheriff's Office went hunting for the killer, they and a mob lynched practically every other Black man in their path.
当治安官办公室追捕凶手时，他们和一群暴徒几乎用私刑处决了他们路上的所有其他黑人。
Hayes Turner was one of the casualties in that massacre-- a warning, this gets especially graphic.
海耶斯·特纳是那场大屠杀的受害者之一——这是一个警告，这变得特别生动。
Just as I was about to describe what happened next to Sean, the museum's educator, Imani Haynes, walked in.
正当我正要描述肖恩身边发生的事情时，博物馆的教育者伊马尼·海恩斯走了进来。
And I was grateful she did, because she took over.
我很感激她这么做了，因为她接手了。
He had nothing to do with the situation, and unfortunately, he was lynched.
他与这起事件无关，不幸的是，他被处以私刑。
Afterwards, he was castrated.
之后，他被阉割了。
So what you're seeing in this scene in the exhibit is Turner, lynched.
所以你在展览中看到的这个场景是特纳被私刑处死。
He is wearing overalls, and we have his overalls opened up in his private region, blood dripping down.
他穿着工作服，我们把他的工作服在他的私处打开了，血滴下来。
Next to Hayes is his wife, Mary.
海耶斯旁边是他的妻子玛丽。
After he was lynched, Mary bravely went seeking justice for her husband.
在他被私刑处决后，玛丽勇敢地为她的丈夫寻求正义。
She was eight months pregnant at the time.
当时她已怀孕八个月。
They lynched her too.
他们也对她处以私刑。
In the museum exhibit, she's hanging from the neck.
在博物馆的展览中，她被挂在脖子上。
But in real life, they actually hanged her by her feet, set her on fire, slashed her stomach open, and pulled out her baby, which was still alive.
但在现实生活中，他们实际上把她吊在脚边，放火焚烧，切开她的腹部，取出她还活着的孩子。
That's what's depicted in wax.
这就是蜡所描绘的。
Then they stomp on its head.
然后他们踩它的头。
The sign on the wall adds to the story that haunted me.
墙上的标牌增添了困扰我的故事。
It's also the only part that historians can't fully verify.
这也是历史学家唯一无法完全证实的部分。
It reads, "Walter White, describing the lynching of Mary Turner and her husband, Hayes Turner, depicted in the scene, said that it was too horrible to describe the mob taking the time to sew two cats in Mrs. Turner's stomach and making bets as to which one would climb out first."
上面写道：“沃尔特·怀特在描述玛丽·特纳和她的丈夫海耶斯·特纳被私刑处死的场景时说，暴民花时间把两只猫缝进特纳夫人的肚子里，并打赌哪一只会先爬出来，这太可怕了。”
To the left of the Turner's bodies is a mantelpiece with souvenir jars.
特纳遗体的左边是一个壁炉架，上面放着纪念品罐。
Sometimes, the lynchers would keep pieces of their victims.
有时，私刑犯会保留受害者的碎片。
In these jars were supposed to be the ears, locks of hair, and genitalia of Black people, all next to a kid's baseball trophy.
这些罐子里应该放着黑人的耳朵、一绺头发和生殖器，所有这些都在一个孩子的棒球奖杯旁边。
I'm not sure why that's there, except to underscore the point that these body parts are trophies too.
我不知道为什么会出现这样的情况，只是为了强调这些身体部位也是战利品。
It's a difficult room to process.
这是一个很难处理的房间。
When I saw this at 14, some of my classmates didn't even know how to react.
当我14岁时看到这一点时，我的一些同学甚至不知道如何反应。
A few of them, stoic.
他们中的一些人，坚忍不拔。
Others, awkwardly deflecting with, yo.
其他人，尴尬地偏转，哟。
I remember feeling angry, because you couldn't escape it.
我记得我感到愤怒，因为你无法逃避。
There are signs around the room that anticipate your distress.
房间周围有一些标志可以预测您的痛苦。
They say, "Identify with the victims and martyrs, and never forget them.
他们说：“与受害者和烈士认同，永远不要忘记他们。
But do not get bitter or despondent over what they endured."
但不要对他们所经历的一切感到痛苦或沮丧。”
Dr. Joanne Martin founded the museum with her husband, Elmer, in 1983.
乔安妮·马丁 (Joanne Martin) 博士与她的丈夫埃尔默 (Elmer) 于 1983 年创立了该博物馆。
And when I told her all the kids in my third grade were crying and freaking out and holding hands, she was fully aware that happens.
当我告诉她三年级的所有孩子都在哭泣、惊慌、手拉手时，她完全意识到发生了这种情况。
In fact, it's intentional.
事实上，这是故意的。
For me, that's the point.
对我来说，这就是重点。
When they leave shaking, when they leave crying-- and that's often the reaction-- I have no problem with those tears.
当他们离开时颤抖着，当他们哭泣着离开时——这通常是他们的反应——我对这些眼泪没有任何问题。
And it is-- what people are going to talk about years later is going to be our slave ship.
几年后人们谈论的将是我们的奴隶船。
And they're going to say, I never forgot your lynching exhibit.
他们会说，我永远不会忘记你的私刑展览。
And everything else, it seems like a movie, if you don't have a sense of exactly what people were fighting against.
如果你不了解人们到底在反对什么，那么其他一切都像是一部电影。
If you think that Rosa Parks-- that what she did had something to do with the seat on the bus, and you don't understand that that act was going to get her jailed, but it could have gotten her lynched as well.
如果你认为罗莎·帕克斯的所作所为与公交车上的座位有关，你不明白这种行为会让她入狱，但也可能让她被处以私刑。
When Joanne and her husband founded the museum, they set out to create something that they wished existed in the world, a museum that celebrated and preserved Black history, created by Black people for Black people in a majority Black city.
当乔安妮和她的丈夫创立博物馆时，他们着手创建一个他们希望世界上存在的东西，一个庆祝和保存黑人历史的博物馆，由黑人在黑人占多数的城市为黑人创建。
They were professors at historically Black universities in Baltimore, Elmer at Morgan State and Joanne at Coppin.
他们是巴尔的摩历史悠久的黑人大学的教授，埃尔默是摩根州立大学的教授，乔安妮是科平大学的教授。
But they wanted to reach more than just the academic class.
但他们想要接触的不仅仅是学术阶层。
When they visited a wax museum in St. Augustine, Florida, they thought, yeah, wax figures.
当他们参观佛罗里达州圣奥古斯丁的蜡像馆时，他们想到了，是的，蜡像。
That's the way to go.
这就是要走的路。
They had money saved for a house, but instead put it towards wax figures.
他们存了钱买房子，但把钱用来买蜡像。
It still wasn't enough.
这还不够。
Wax figures are absurdly expensive-- $4,500 then, but tens of thousands of dollars now.
蜡像贵得离谱——当时是 4,500 美元，但现在是数万美元。
They ended up with their first four Black history figures, Frederick Douglass, John Brown, Nat Turner, and Mary McLeod Bethune.
他们最终选出了前四位黑人历史人物：弗雷德里克·道格拉斯、约翰·布朗、纳特·特纳和玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩。
Elmer and Joanne would tour around with their quartet of wax figures at different schools and churches and expos.
埃尔默和乔安妮会带着他们的四重蜡像在不同的学校、教堂和博览会上巡演。
We just would take the figures, set them up as exhibits, throw them into my Pontiac, take them back home to our two-bedroom apartment.
我们只是把这些人物模型作为展品，扔进我的庞蒂亚克，然后带回我们的两居室公寓。
So if you looked into the guest bedroom of our two-bedroom apartment, you would have found Mary McLeod Bethune's head on the dresser and Frederick Douglass' parts over in a corner, and so forth, You know, I just gave him an ultimatum.
所以，如果你看看我们两居室公寓的客房，你会发现玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩的头放在梳妆台上，弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的零件放在角落里，等等，你知道，我刚刚给了他最后通牒。
Mary McLeod Bethune has got to go.
玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩必须走了。
You've got to find a place for Mary McLeod Bethune.
你必须为玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩找到一个地方。
Dr. Martin told me they're thinking of expanding the museum and making it more child friendly, toning down the violence, which surprised me.
马丁博士告诉我，他们正在考虑扩大博物馆，使其更加适合儿童，减少暴力，这让我感到惊讶。
It doesn't seem like her mission at all, and it only makes sense if our history were a little more child friendly, which it definitely isn't.
这看起来根本不像她的使命，只有我们的历史对儿童更加友好一点才有意义，但事实显然不是。
The four little girls killed in the 1963 church bombing in Alabama, they were all 14 and younger.
1963年阿拉巴马州教堂爆炸案中丧生的四名小女孩均年满14岁。
The kids who marched in Birmingham's Children's Crusade were beaten and had dogs sicced on them.
参加伯明翰儿童十字军游行的孩子们遭到殴打，还被狗咬伤。
They were as young as 12.
他们年仅12岁。
And Emmett Till was 14.
埃米特·蒂尔 14 岁。
He has a memorial in the lynching room, but you wouldn't even be allowed to go down there without a chaperone.
他在私刑室里有一座纪念碑，但如果没有监护人，你甚至不被允许去那里。
Even though the museum upset me, I respect it.
尽管博物馆让我感到不安，但我尊重它。
It got through to me.
我明白了。
Even as an adult watching right-wing pundits discuss the greatness of America, I still think of Mary Turner and her baby.
即使作为一个成年人，看着右翼专家讨论美国的伟大，我仍然想起玛丽·特纳和她的孩子。
When I left the museum, I have the same feeling I did as a kid, like I was in on a secret about what the country was really like, like all of America's truths were in a basement on North Avenue.
当我离开博物馆时，我有和小时候一样的感觉，就像我知道这个国家到底是什么样子的秘密，就像美国所有的真相都在北大街的地下室里。
B.A.
学士
Parker-- she can be heard on the podcast "The Cut" from "New York Magazine." Coming up, a seventh grader gets a taste of the family business, which means breaking the law with mom and dad.
帕克——可以在《纽约杂志》的播客“The Cut”中听到她的声音。接下来，一名七年级学生将体验到家族企业的滋味，这意味着与爸爸妈妈一起违法。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's "This American Life." I'm Ira Glass.
这就是《美国生活》。我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Suitable for Children, stories about the random stuff that kids encounter that just sticks with them for the rest of their lives, for good or for bad.
今天的节目《适合儿童》讲述了孩子们遇到的随机事物的故事，这些事物无论好坏都会伴随他们一生。
We have arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了我们计划的第三幕了。
Act Three, Take Your Kid to Work Day.
第三幕，带孩子去上班日。
So in this half of the show, we have stories of kids seeing stuff that really maybe they should not see, and we begin with this story from Domingo Martinez about tagging along with his parents when they were on the job.
因此，在节目的这一半部分，我们讲述了孩子们看到了他们可能不应该看到的东西的故事，我们从多明戈·马丁内斯的这个故事开始，讲述了他在父母工作时跟随父母的故事。
His dad had a trucking business in Texas.
他的父亲在德克萨斯州经营卡车运输业务。
They were doing worse and worse over the years.
多年来，他们的表现越来越差。
By 1986, Dad had become a truck driver with nothing left to haul but marijuana.
到 1986 年，爸爸已经成为一名卡车司机，除了大麻什么也没有可以运。
Through his early 30s, he could do little with the trucking business he'd inherited from Grandpa, except watch as it crumbled around him.
三十出头的时候，他对从祖父那里继承的卡车运输生意几乎无能为力，只能眼睁睁地看着它在他身边崩溃。
Back then, he began his days by throwing open the door to the bedroom I shared with my brother Dan.
那时，他打开我和哥哥丹合住的卧室的门开始了他的一天。
He'd stand there in his underwear, looking like a tall, diapered child, and say, "You two, get up." He would end the day drinking a lot of $1.50 Budweisers at the shanty bars that littered the port of Brownsville.
他会穿着内衣站在那里，看起来像一个高个子、穿着尿布的孩子，然后说：“你们两个，站起来。”一天结束时，他会在布朗斯维尔港遍布的棚屋酒吧里喝很多 1.5 美元的百威啤酒。
At home, Mom kept the bookkeeping.
在家里，妈妈负责记账。
She watched the flow of money slow to a trickle, and then stop outright when I was in middle school.
当我上中学时，她看着金钱慢慢流淌，然后完全停止。
My brother, sisters, and I knew things were dire when our mothers stopped shopping at El Centro Supermarket-- the nice grocery store, as she'd always told us-- and started bringing home bags from Lopez Supermarket, the poor people grocery store.
当我们的母亲停止在埃尔森特罗超市（这是一家不错的杂货店，正如她总是告诉我们的那样）购物并开始从洛佩兹超市（穷人杂货店）买东西回家时，我和我的兄弟姐妹们知道情况很糟糕。
One morning, mom surprises me by showing up at my seventh grade algebra class and removing me, getting us on the road out of Brownsville, headed north.
一天早上，妈妈出现在我七年级的代数课上，带我走上离开布朗斯维尔的路，向北行驶，这让我大吃一惊。
There's no explanation.
没有解释。
"Sientáte y lla callete," she snaps at me.
“Sientáte y lla callete，”她对我厉声说道。
Sit down, and shut up.
坐下来，闭嘴。
I don't know why I didn't guess what we were doing that morning, that Mom and I were lookouts for Dad, who was on the road somewhere behind us in one of his flat-nosed tractor trailers, carrying a large load of marijuana and headed north.
我不知道为什么我没有猜到那天早上我们在做什么，妈妈和我在寻找爸爸，爸爸开着一辆平头拖拉机拖车在我们身后的路上，载着一大堆大麻向北行驶。
I had heard the stories, knew some of the tactics of smuggling by this point.
我已经听过这些故事，也知道了一些走私的策略。
But I didn't make the connection that mom and I were driving ahead of Dad to make sure the customs station was closed.
但我没有意识到我和妈妈开车走在爸爸前面是为了确保海关关门。
And if it happened to be open, we were supposed to turn back and warn him.
如果门碰巧是开着的，我们就应该回去警告他。
This was back in the 1980s, before the Patriot Act, when there were two US customs checkpoints blocking the migration of drugs, fruit, people, reptiles, and parrots on the roads between the United States and Mexico, both about 100 miles north of the Mexican border at highway checkpoints.
这要追溯到 20 世纪 80 年代，爱国者法案出台之前，当时有两个美国海关检查站，阻止毒品、水果、人、爬行动物和鹦鹉在美国和墨西哥之间的道路上迁移，这两个检查站都位于墨西哥边境以北约 100 英里的高速公路检查站。
The station on Highway 77 in Sarita was the busier and the better financed.
位于萨里塔 (Sarita) 的 77 号高速公路上的车站较为繁忙，资金也较好。
The checkpoint in Hebbronville, though, was an Airstream trailer with an attached carport to protect the agents from the sun, and it would often close for breakfast or lunch.
不过，赫布伦维尔的检查站是一辆气流拖车，附有车库，以保护特工免受阳光照射，而且通常会在早餐或午餐时关闭。
So we were headed towards that one this morning, going north on Highway 281, driving through the scenery of asthmatic plants and stunted trees.
所以今天早上我们就朝着那个地方出发，沿 281 号高速公路向北行驶，穿过一片令人喘息的植物和矮小的树木。
The car is hot, no air conditioning.
车里很热，没有空调。
My mom and I are saying nothing to one another.
我和我妈妈什么也没说。
We have each decided that the other is unworthy of conversation.
我们都认为对方不值得交谈。
We stare out the windows and think very different things.
我们凝视着窗外，思考着截然不同的事情。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Mom is thinking about the $100 she and Dad had spent before six o'clock that morning.
[音乐播放] 妈妈正在回想那天早上她和爸爸在六点之前花掉的 100 美元。
$100 that would help them make $2,000 if things went right, because their first stop on this felony excursion was to Dad's curandera, whom we knew as La Senora, Dad's personal witchdoctor, for an emergency session.
如果一切顺利的话，这 100 美元可以帮助他们赚到 2,000 美元，因为他们这次重罪之旅的第一站是去爸爸的女巫师那里参加紧急会议，我们称她为拉塞诺拉，爸爸的私人巫医。
They were let right through at 5:00 in the morning, and they had only one burning question-- will the checkpoint be open?
他们在早上 5:00 就被放行了，他们只有一个紧迫的问题——检查站会开放吗？
After years of sitting through these sessions with my grandmother, I didn't have to be there to know exactly how it went in the curandera's office.
经过多年与祖母一起参加这些会议后，我不必亲自到场就能确切地知道女巫医办公室里的情况是怎样的。
La Senora is older, matronly, dresses in a thin frock with her hair pulled back in a bun.
拉夫人年纪较大，一派主妇风范，穿着一件薄连衣裙，头发在脑后盘成一个发髻。
She has my parents sit across from her desk in a black leather love seat with chrome handles.
她让我的父母坐在她办公桌对面的黑色真皮双人座椅上，上面有镀铬把手。
A panorama of photos hang around her office, some wallet sized, others larger and in portrait.
她的办公室里挂满了全景照片，有的有钱包大小，有的则更大，而且是肖像照。
A pencil sketch of a Camaro by one of her grandsons hangs next to a window.
窗边挂着她的一个孙子画的科迈罗的铅笔素描。
She listens closely to their question, nodding sleepily at their preoccupation, sympathizing, understanding.
她仔细地听着他们的问题，对他们的专注点点头，表示同情和理解。
They've reached a decision and they can't turn back, they tell her.
他们告诉她，他们已经做出了决定，不能回头。
They need to do it.
他们需要这样做。
No other choice anymore.
没有其他选择了。
She stands up abruptly and walks behind her desk, which is cluttered with sheets of notebook paper crawling with ink, illegible notes, names of people, sets of cryptic numbers, home addresses of saints.
她突然站起来，走到桌子后面，桌子上堆满了笔记本纸，上面沾满了墨水、难以辨认的笔记、人名、一组神秘的数字、圣人的家庭住址。
She closes her eyes and scribbles something on her yellow legal pad-- nonsense to anyone else reading it.
她闭上眼睛，在黄色便笺簿上写下一些东西——对于其他读它的人来说都是无稽之谈。
On her desk are two cheap, leaded crystal bottles, each filled with a clear liquid.
她的桌子上有两个廉价的含铅水晶瓶，每个瓶子里都装着透明的液体。
She gently reaches for her matching shot glass and lifts it to the light, making it sparkle.
她轻轻地伸手拿起配套的小酒杯，将其举到灯光下，让它闪闪发光。
She places the glass on the surface before her and pours from one bottle, then the other.
她将玻璃杯放在她面前的表面上，从一个瓶子里倒水，然后从另一个瓶子里倒水。
When the two clear liquids mix, they turn a deep crimson and thicken, like plasma.
当两种透明液体混合时，它们会变成深红色并变稠，就像血浆一样。
She nods her head as if her suspicions have been confirmed.
她点点头，仿佛她的怀疑得到了证实。
She produces a glass orb filled with water sitting on a black, plastic ring.
她制作了一个装满水的玻璃球，放在黑色塑料环上。
She sits up straight, closes her eyes, and regulates her breathing into a loud, rhythmic inhalation, exhalation.
她坐直，闭上眼睛，调整呼吸，大声、有节奏地吸气、呼气。
That unconsciously forces Mom and Dad to do the same.
这无意识地迫使爸爸妈妈也这样做。
After a few seconds, she opens her eyes suddenly and strikes the glass orb with a metal wand, making it ring in the clear morning air.
几秒钟后，她突然睁开眼睛，用金属棒敲打玻璃球，让它在清晨清澈的空气中响起。
Then she lifts the orb between her two pudgy hands and stares deeply into the inverted image of the room around it.
然后她用两只矮胖的手举起了球体，深深地凝视着球体周围房间的倒影。
Sitting opposite the chicanery and watching everything she does, you're drawn to the ritual.
坐在诡计对面，看着她所做的一切，你就会被这个仪式所吸引。
And you can't help but try to figure it out too.
你也会情不自禁地尝试去弄清楚。
No, she says with certainty.
不，她肯定地说。
The checkpoint will not be open this morning.
检查站今天早上不会开放。
Go in peace.
平静地走吧。
God be with you.
愿上帝与你同在。
When Mom and I reached the checkpoint at 11:45 that morning, it is very much open for business.
那天早上11点45分，我和妈妈到达检查站时，检查站已经很开门营业了。
A line of cars five deep stretches back from the under-budgeted Airstream trailer.
从预算不足的 Airstream 拖车开始，汽车排成五排。
Our job now is to go through, and then turn back around and report to dad that his doom was indeed imminent.
我们现在的工作就是经历一遍，然后回头向爸爸报告，他的厄运确实即将来临。
Mom is visibly shaken.
妈妈显然很震惊。
She turns off the radio with a hard click and considers this, considers her options.
她重重地关掉了收音机，思考着这个问题，考虑着她的选择。
From the car, we can see a skinny, middle-aged white guy in green Border Patrol garb, sitting on a reclining chair in the open doorway of the Airstream trailer.
从车上，我们可以看到一名瘦削的中年白人，穿着绿色边境巡逻队服装，坐在气流拖车敞开的门口的躺椅上。
He's facing the cars as they pass under the tin roof.
当汽车从铁皮屋顶下驶过时，他正对着汽车。
It must have been 110 degrees inside the trailer, 100 in the shade.
拖车内的温度一定是 110 度，阴凉处则为 100 度。
From his position, never bothering to get up, the agent sits, fanning himself with the newspaper and sleepily peers into the cars, asking if everyone is an American citizen, waiting for an accent and answer, smiling, and then waving them through, like a sympathetic priest granting absolution.
特工坐在自己的位置上，懒得站起来，拿着报纸给自己扇风，睡眼惺忪地看着车里，询问每个人是否都是美国公民，等待口音和答案，微笑着，然后挥手让他们通过，就像一位富有同情心的牧师在赦免他们。
"Hi.
“嗨。
Where are y'all going to today?" asks the skinny, little man.
今天你们要去哪里？”瘦小的男人问道。
Mom's window is now only halfway open, and in her nervousness, she rolls it all the way up.
妈妈的窗户现在只打开了一半，她紧张地把窗户完全打开了。
"Hi, sorry.
“嗨，抱歉。
I mean, San Antonio," as she opens a window.
我是说，圣安东尼奥，”她打开一扇窗户。
"Y'all American citizens?" "Yes," she says, as she leans back so he could get a clear look at me, nodding my head.
“你们都是美国公民吗？” “是的，”她说，她向后靠了靠，以便他能清楚地看着我，并点点头。
I don't say anything, except a quiet "Yup" when I nod, but he has not heard me.
我什么也没说，只是点头时轻声说“是”，但他没有听到我的声音。
There is an uncomfortable pause-- I think because they're supposed to hear your accent.
有一个不舒服的停顿——我想是因为他们应该听到你的口音。
There was an anxious beat, and he still hasn't let us go when I say, "Yes, I am," a bit too enthusiastically.
一阵焦急，当我说“是的，我是”时，他仍然没有让我们走，这有点过于热情了。
Mom laughs nervously.
妈妈紧张地笑了。
She had been hoping our light skin would exonerate us without a problem.
她一直希望我们浅色的皮肤能够毫无问题地证明我们无罪。
"Y'all have a nice day," he says, like he hasn't noticed anything awkward.
“你们今天过得愉快，”他说道，好像他没有注意到任何尴尬的事情。
We drive through, and I feel her seethe for the next few miles.
我们开车经过，我感觉到她在接下来的几英里里沸腾了。
That was about noon.
那时大约是中午。
Somewhere behind us at a roadside rest stop, Dad and my older brother, Dan, are waiting in Dad's tractor trailer, which is attached to the trailer with the marijuana.
在我们身后的某个路边休息站，爸爸和我的哥哥丹正在爸爸的拖车里等着，拖车与装有大麻的拖车相连。
The two center I-beams that run the length of the trailer make perfect housing once you weld metal plates all along the underside and at the tail end.
一旦您沿着拖车底部和尾部焊接金属板，沿着拖车长度的两个中心工字梁就形成了完美的外壳。
It creates a long, rectangular box sealed at the rear end with the axle of the rig, where 20 40-pound blocks of marijuana can be hidden.
它创建了一个长方形盒子，在后端与设备的轴密封，其中可以隐藏 20 块 40 磅重的大麻。
This is what Dad and Dan are carrying.
这是爸爸和丹带着的东西。
I wonder dimly if Dan has figured out what he's doing out here on the road north, when he should be in high school.
我隐隐约约地想，当丹应该上高中时，他是否已经弄清楚他在北边的路上在做什么。
But Dan has always been more streetwise, much savvier than me.
但丹一直比我更有街头智慧、更精明。
I figure that if I figured it out, he'd have figured it out long before.
我想，如果我明白了，他早就明白了。
Mom and I drove on to Hebbronville.
妈妈和我开车前往赫布伦维尔。
I'm dehydrated.
我脱水了。
I want to stop at a store.
我想在一家商店停下来。
We can't, she says to me.
我们不能，她对我说。
We have to turn back.
我们必须回头。
I think we're behind.
我认为我们落后了。
Still, I'm hungry and really thirsty.
尽管如此，我还是很饿，而且很渴。
So I persist.
所以我坚持。
Certainly, we have time to get to a convenience store.
当然，我们有时间去便利店。
They can't have scheduled this thing to hinge on a few minutes.
他们不可能把这件事安排在几分钟之内。
Certainly, they've devised this more cleverly than that.
当然，他们把这个设计得比那个更聪明。
Please, I plead, just stop at the 7-Eleven.
我恳求您，请停在 7-11 便利店吧。
Grudgingly, she pilots the noisy car around the small town and finds a convenience store.
她无奈地驾驶着吵闹的汽车绕着小镇转了一圈，找到了一家便利店。
I get out with a couple of dollars and come up short when I tried paying for some donuts and a chocolate milk.
我带着几美元出去了，但当我尝试支付一些甜甜圈和巧克力牛奶时，却发现钱不够了。
I returned to the car for more money.
我回到车上要更多的钱。
Just get in, she yells, and I do, leaving the food at the counter.
进去吧，她喊道，我也进去了，把食物留在柜台上。
Mom whips the car around and I'm in trouble.
妈妈把车开过来，我就有麻烦了。
I'm used to it by now.
我现在已经习惯了。
We travel like that for a few minutes, and when the checkpoint is back in sight, we hold our breath so the guy won't see us.
我们就这样旅行了几分钟，当检查站重新出现在视野中时，我们屏住呼吸，以免那家伙看到我们。
And right then, we see Dad and Dan and the trailer, heading right for the checkpoint.
就在那时，我们看到爸爸、丹和拖车正朝检查站驶去。
Dad had become nervous, or maybe brave, or maybe he was blinded by his $100 faith in his curandera and had charged forth without waiting for Mom's report.
爸爸变得紧张，也许是勇敢，也许是他被他那100美元的巫师信仰蒙蔽了双眼，没有等妈妈报告就冲了出去。
"Oh, god," my mother says, and all the blood drains from my face from just the tone in her voice.
“哦，上帝，”我母亲说道，光是她的语气，我脸上的血色就消失了。
I had never heard her voice so charged with fear.
我从来没有听过她的声音如此充满恐惧。
"Oh, god," she says again.
“哦，上帝，”她又说了一遍。
With her left hand, she grabs the knob that controls the headlights and flashes at Dad, who is only a few hundred feet from the checkpoint.
她用左手抓住控制车头灯的旋钮，向距离检查站只有几百英尺的爸爸闪光。
She flashes four times, in clear view of anyone who is paying attention.
她闪烁了四次，任何注意的人都可以清楚地看到。
I wonder if that is her signal that the checkpoint is open, but question the wisdom of doing it while he is next in line, in full view of the guy at the checkpoint, were he to look over his shoulder and see the noisy, southbound car that just drove through not 30 minutes before.
我想知道这是否是她表示检查站已开放的信号，但质疑在他排在下一个队列时这样做是否明智，在检查站的那个人的众目睽睽之下，他回头看去，看到了不到30分钟前刚刚驶过的吵闹的南行汽车。
She slows down, slows terrifically down, going less than 20 miles per hour on the highway, and for a moment, I can see Dad is driving.
她放慢速度，慢得惊人，在高速公路上的行驶速度不到每小时 20 英里，有那么一会儿，我可以看到爸爸正在开车。
I can see that the blood is drained from his face too, making his eyebrows stand out a rich black on his pallid, deathly-white forehead, a mask of someone pretending desperately that everything is A-OK, but doing it horrifically badly.
我可以看到他脸上的血色也被流干了，使得他的眉毛在他苍白、死白的前额上显得格外突出，一副面具，拼命地假装一切都好，但做得却非常糟糕。
I see Dan in the passenger seat, holding onto the handrail above the door as a means to steady himself through this craziness, through this stupid, unnecessary risk.
我看到丹坐在乘客座位上，抓住门上方的扶手，以此来稳定自己，度过这种疯狂，度过这种愚蠢的、不必要的风险。
And he looks calm, collected, uncaring, like he isn't there.
他看起来平静、镇定、漠不关心，就像他不在那儿一样。
There are no cars ahead of them now.
现在他们前面已经没有车了。
The trailer is next in line.
拖车是下一个。
It slows to a crawl, and I could see dad desperately trying to ignore the crazy, flashing, noisy Bonneville rattling through the southbound lane, keeping his eyes fixed to the road, pretending like he isn't smuggling anything in the empty trailer behind him, this empty, useless trailer with the I-beams all sealed up, with the two Mexican men driving it with no obvious destination, no paperwork, no affiliation with any hauling or trucking company.
车子慢得像爬行一样，我可以看到爸爸拼命地试图忽略疯狂、闪烁、吵闹的邦纳维尔在南行车道上嘎嘎作响，他的眼睛盯着路，假装他没有在身后的空拖车里走私任何东西，这辆空的、无用的拖车，工字梁都被密封起来，两个墨西哥人驾驶着它，没有明显的目的地，没有文书工作，与任何拖运或卡车运输公司没有任何关系。
No, sir, not trafficking in drugs, just driving through-- to Houston probably, looking for work.
不，先生，不是贩卖毒品，只是开车经过——可能是去休斯敦，找工作。
Oh, yes, we're American citizens.
哦，是的，我们是美国公民。
That's not why we're nervous.
这不是我们紧张的原因。
We could prove that.
我们可以证明这一点。
That's nothing.
那没什么。
We're nervous because of the pot we're hiding, and because we're only getting $2,000 for risking upwards of 10 years in prison.
我们很紧张，因为我们隐藏了底池，也因为我们冒着入狱 10 年以上的风险，只能得到 2,000 美元。
Isn't that funny?
这不是很有趣吗？
Isn't that just hysterical?
这不是歇斯底里吗？
But the skinny white guy is having lunch and can't be bothered.
但那个瘦瘦的白人正在吃午饭，无暇打扰。
In one of the weirder moments of this whole debacle, the Bonneville, the Airstream, and Dad's tractor are all lined up, like some cosmic event.
在整个灾难中最奇怪的时刻之一是，博纳维尔号、气流号和爸爸的拖拉机都排成一排，就像某种宇宙事件一样。
And we see the skinny Border Patrol agent with a white napkin tucked under his chin, and Dad's bloodless face up in the trailer through the window of the Airstream, as the agent waves them through with a fork, like he's conducting an orchestra.
我们看到瘦骨嶙峋的边境巡逻人员下巴下塞着一张白色餐巾，透过气流车的窗户，爸爸毫无血色的脸朝上，他用叉子挥舞着他们，就像指挥一支管弦乐队一样。
Go on through, go on through.
继续通过，继续通过。
Mom continues driving south, stunned by what has just happened, and I am careful not to say a word.
妈妈继续开车南下，对刚刚发生的事情感到震惊，我小心翼翼地没有说一句话。
We almost reach Raymondville and stop at a Whataburger to get a quick, wordless lunch, and spend some time sitting in a parking lot, waiting.
我们快要到达雷蒙德维尔了，在一家 Whataburger 店停下来，吃了一顿快速、无言的午餐，然后在停车场花了一些时间等待。
When she feels it is safe to return, she turns the car around and heads back north, back through the same checkpoint.
当她觉得可以安全返回时，她调转车头，向北行驶，穿过同一个检查站。
"Are you sure this is safe?" I ask.
“你确定这里安全吗？”我问。
She doesn't answer.
她没有回答。
When we pull up again to the checkpoint headed back to Hebbronville around three o'clock, there was a different Border Patrol agent at the Airstream.
当我们在三点左右再次停在返回赫布伦维尔的检查站时，气流上有另一名边境巡逻人员。
He is a small, clean-cut, militant Mexican with a southern drawl.
他是个身材矮小、五官干净、好战的墨西哥人，带着南方慢吞吞的口音。
"Y'all American citizens?" he demands instantly, leaning into the car through the window, clearly smelling for marijuana smoke.
“你们都是美国公民吗？”他立刻问道，从车窗探出身子，明显闻到了大麻烟味。
"Oh, yes," says my mother, who was probably quite relieved the hard part is over and it looks like we're getting away with it.
“哦，是的，”我母亲说，她可能很松一口气，困难的部分已经过去了，看起来我们已经摆脱了困境。
"How about you, son?
“儿子，你呢？
You an American citizen?"
你是美国公民吗？”
He gives me a direct glare through reflective sunglasses.
他透过反光太阳镜直视我。
There is nothing more potentially hostile than the indigenous ego interpreting the laws of his conqueror upon his own people.
没有什么比土著自我将征服者的法律解释给自己的人民更具有潜在的敌意了。
"Yes, sir," I say, careful not to move or fidget or look away, like I've learned.
“是的，先生，”我说，小心翼翼地不要移动、坐立不安或把目光移开，就像我学到的那样。
He looks back at my mother, then at me, like he smells the nervousness of earlier.
他回头看了看我的母亲，然后又看了看我，仿佛闻到了之前的紧张气氛。
Something tugs at his intuition.
有什么东西拉扯着他的直觉。
"Where are you all headed?" the sunglasses finally ask.
“你们都要去哪里？”墨镜终于开口问道。
This catches mom off guard.
这让妈妈措手不及。
Her subterfuge had ended when Dad had driven through the checkpoint.
当爸爸开车通过检查站时，她的诡计就结束了。
She left all her answers back in Raymondville.
她把所有的答案都留在了雷蒙德维尔。
"We're going to Hebbronville," she says unconvincingly.
“我们要去赫布伦维尔，”她语气不那么令人信服。
Had he asked one more question, had he pressed it, we would have been in some sort of trouble.
如果他再问一个问题，如果他继续追问，我们就会遇到麻烦。
But he doesn't, and he backs off and motions us through.
但他没有，然后退后一步示意我们过去。
Mom drives the noisy car through Hebbronville and we were about to hit the open highway again, when we noticed Dad's trailer in the parking of a cheap motel by the side of the road.
妈妈开着那辆吵闹的汽车穿过赫布伦维尔，我们正要再次驶上高速公路，这时我们注意到路边一家廉价汽车旅馆的停车场里停着爸爸的拖车。
My brother is lodged between the rearmost tires, working on the brake lights that, ridiculously, aren't working.
我的兄弟卡在最后面的轮胎之间，正在修理刹车灯，可笑的是，刹车灯不工作。
Mom is as alarmed to find them there as I am.
妈妈和我一样惊慌地发现它们在那里。
This confirms my suspicion that there had been no planning beyond the consultation at the curandera.
这证实了我的怀疑：除了在医馆咨询之外，没有任何计划。
This whole debacle had been based on nothing more than $100 worth of faith.
整个灾难只不过是基于价值 100 美元的信念。
Mom pulls up next to the trailer, and I think she expects a victorious reunion.
妈妈把车停在拖车旁边，我想她期待着一次胜利的团聚。
When he sees her, Dad suddenly looks like he's about to punch her.
爸爸一看到她，突然一副要打她的样子。
"Stupid fucking woman!" he yells at her in Spanish.
“他妈的蠢女人！”他用西班牙语对她大喊。
Mom stops cold.
妈妈不再感冒了。
"What the fuck were you thinking?
“你他妈的在想什么？
If they would have just turned around for a moment, it would all be over, and it would all be your fault," he spits at her in Spanish.
如果他们只是转身一会儿，一切就都结束了，这都是你的错，”他用西班牙语朝她吐口水。
We realize what he's upset about-- the flashing headlights.
我们意识到他对闪烁的车头灯感到不安。
His words continue to snap and hiss around her like bullets in a firefight, and she follows him forward to the cab of the truck, kowtowing to her punishment.
他的话继续在她周围嘶嘶作响，就像交火中的子弹一样，她跟着他走到卡车驾驶室，向她的惩罚磕头。
Lucky for us, La Senora was right, Dad says, walking back with Mom, now excited and seemingly over his anger.
对我们来说幸运的是，拉夫人是对的，爸爸一边说，一边和妈妈一起走回来，现在他很兴奋，似乎已经克服了愤怒。
She made them blind, and we were let through like they were closed.
她让它们失明，而我们却被允许通过，就像它们是关着的一样。
When we left them later that evening, Dan was doing the driving.
那天晚上晚些时候，当我们离开他们时，丹正在开车。
They pulled out of the parking lot and headed off to Houston and their payoff, the brake lights temporarily fixed in loops of black electrical tape.
他们驶出停车场，前往休斯顿，他们的回报是，刹车灯暂时固定在黑色电工胶带环上。
I watch as the truck disappears.
我看着卡车消失。
It looks like every other piece of now broken-down equipment we've ever owned, rusting, miserable, and totally criminal.
它看起来就像我们曾经拥有的所有其他现在已经损坏的设备一样，生锈，惨不忍睹，而且完全是犯罪行为。
Mom and I turn south back to Brownsville.
妈妈和我向南返回布朗斯维尔。
Mom is her usual quiet self, except this time she plays the radio louder.
妈妈还是一如既往的安静，只是这次她把收音机开得更大声。
This means she's thinking.
这说明她正在思考。
It's getting dark, and I'm sleepy, so I sleep.
天快黑了，我困了，就睡觉了。
She'll get us home.
她会送我们回家。
She knows the way.
她认识路。
For that, I could trust her.
为此，我可以信任她。
Domingo Martinez, reading a story from his collection, "The Boy Kings of Texas," which is a memoir and was a finalist for the National Book Award.
多明戈·马丁内斯正在阅读他的回忆录《德克萨斯男孩国王》中的一个故事，该书是一本回忆录，曾入围国家图书奖决赛。
Act Four, Rocket Boy.
第四幕，火箭男孩。
So we close our program today with somebody who was just a teenager when the Army ordered him to report to Camp Desert Rock, which was next to the Atomic Energy Commission's bomb testing range in Nevada in 1955, to do something that he was totally unprepared for.
因此，我们今天结束我们的节目，当时还是个十几岁的人，陆军命令他去沙漠岩营地报到，该营地位于 1955 年内华达州原子能委员会的炸弹试验场旁边，要做一些他完全没有准备的事情。
Though, I think maybe nobody could be prepared for this.
不过，我认为也许没有人能为此做好准备。
He was 19.
他19岁。
His name was Paul Zimmer.
他的名字叫保罗·齐默。
He grew up to be a writer and a poet, and he wrote about what happened there.
他长大后成为一名作家和诗人，他写下了那里发生的事情。
He wrote this account back in the first year of the Trump administration, if you remember, when North Korea was doing test launches of intercontinental missiles and President Trump was threatening retaliation, demanding they stop.
如果你还记得的话，他在特朗普政府第一年就写下了这篇文章，当时朝鲜正在试射洲际导弹，特朗普总统威胁要进行报复，要求他们停止。
Anyway, Paul's account was read for us by an actor, John Conway.
不管怎样，保罗的叙述是由演员约翰·康威为我们朗读的。
I had paid attention.
我已经注意了。
I had seen the newsreels of Hiroshima.
我看过广岛的新闻短片。
But just watching atomic bombs go off, I thought it was going to be kind of cool.
但只要看着原子弹爆炸，我就觉得这会很酷。
I thought the story would be a way to interest girls.
我认为这个故事会是吸引女孩们兴趣的一种方式。
They didn't tell us anything about what was going to happen, no initiation, no training.
他们没有告诉我们任何关于将要发生的事情，没有启蒙，没有培训。
And the first time, I had no idea what to expect.
第一次，我不知道会发生什么。
We traveled by convoy and buses in the middle of the night to assemble at the site.
我们半夜乘坐车队和巴士前往现场集合。
We shuffled around in the cold, chain smoking, until we were ordered into the trenches.
我们在寒冷中拖着脚步，不停地抽烟，直到被命令进入战壕。
The trenches were long, thin slits in the desert earth only wide enough for us to line up single file.
战壕是沙漠土地上又长又细的缝隙，宽度只够我们排成一列。
We wore our steel helmets, but we're not issued earplugs, eye covers, or any protective clothing.
我们戴着钢盔，但没有配发耳塞、眼罩或任何防护服。
Then they told us to get down.
然后他们叫我们下去。
I did not become fearful until the countdown was broadcast over the loudspeakers.
直到扩音器里传来倒计时的声音，我才变得害怕。
And I only became terrified when I saw the flash, bright enough where, even with my eyes closed, I could see the bones of my hands over my eyes.
当我看到闪光灯时，我才感到害怕，它足够亮，即使我闭上眼睛，我也能看到我眼睛上方的手骨。
A shock wave crashed over the trench top, and we were ordered to stand up and look.
一股冲击波冲过战壕顶部，我们被命令站起来查看。
We did and saw the mushroom cloud, glowing purple and changing colors, rising and rising up.
我们照做了，看到了蘑菇云，发出紫色的光，颜色不断变化，不断升起。
I saw eight atomic blasts in total, all on different days.
我总共目睹了八次原子弹爆炸，而且都发生在不同的日子。
Some devices dropped from airplanes, and some detonated from towers.
有些装置从飞机上掉落，有些装置从塔上引爆。
There was an aerial burst and an underground blast as well.
空中发生爆炸，地下也发生爆炸。
Sometimes, during the shock wave, the trench sides caved in and buried us alive, so we had to claw our way out from our own graves.
有时，在冲击波的作用下，战壕的侧面会塌陷，把我们活埋，所以我们不得不从自己的坟墓里爬出来。
Some poor doggies and Jeeps were assigned to drive forward with Geiger counters and radio transmitters.
一些可怜的小狗和吉普车被分配带着盖革计数器和无线电发射器向前行驶。
When clearance was radioed back, we were ordered to walk forward into the blast area to bear witness.
当无线电传回许可后，我们被命令向前走到爆炸区域作证。
As far as I could tell, bearing witness was the entire reason we were there.
据我所知，见证是我们来到那里的全部原因。
The largest bomb I witnessed was called Turk, and it was almost three times the size of the Hiroshima bomb.
我亲眼目睹的最大的原子弹被称为土耳其原子弹，它的大小几乎是广岛原子弹的三倍。
It was dropped from a 500-foot tower, and our trenches were approximately two and a half miles from ground zero.
它是从 500 英尺高的塔上投下的，我们的战壕距归零地大约两英里半。
The blast yield was bigger than expected, so the brass ordered us to retreat to the buses, where we swept each other off with kitchen brooms and hustled into our seats.
爆炸威力比预期的要大，所以军官命令我们撤退到公共汽车上，我们用厨房扫帚互相扫倒，然后挤到座位上。
The next morning, some of us were bussed back into the area in our fatigues and ordered to walk forward to bear witness.
第二天早上，我们中的一些人穿着迷彩服被巴士送回该地区，并被命令向前走去作证。
There was still a heavy smell of ozone in the air.
空气中仍然弥漫着浓重的臭氧味。
The vegetation was shredded, scorched, torn out by the roots, and small animals and birds were scattered, dead, crippled, and blind, lurching about, some still trying to find a place to hide.
植被被撕碎、烧焦、连根拔起，小动物和鸟类四散奔逃、死亡、残废、失明，摇摇晃晃，有些还在寻找藏身之所。
We walked past crumpled vehicles and artillery pieces that had been placed in the open, mannequins staked out, khakis torn apart and melted grotesquely.
我们走过露天放置的皱巴巴的车辆和大炮，人体模型立在外面，卡其布裤被撕裂并融化得奇形怪状。
Caged Cheshire pigs that had been dressed in specially-fitting Army uniforms were dead or mangled, the latter still shrieking their last.
关在笼子里、穿着特制军装的柴郡猪要么死了，要么被打残，后者仍在尖叫着最后的声音。
Herds of blasted sheep and cows were mangled together, dead or moaning.
成群的被炸死的羊和牛被肢解在一起，要么死亡，要么呻吟。
Staged houses and barns were splintered and scattered.
舞台上的房屋和谷仓支离破碎。
We never had to write reports, nor did anyone ask us what we saw.
我们从来不需要写报告，也没有人问我们看到了什么。
Because it turned out, they were looking at us.
因为事实证明，他们正在看着我们。
They wanted to see how a young men reacted to an atomic blast.
他们想看看一个年轻人对原子弹爆炸有何反应。
Apparently, that's all they wanted to do, and I was not selected because I was special.
显然，这就是他们想要做的，而我没有被选中是因为我很特别。
I had no need for qualifications, aside from being a 19-year-old boy.
我不需要任何资格，只要我是一个 19 岁的男孩。
Over the years of America's open-air atomic bomb testing in Nevada, a few thousand Army men participated.
多年来，美国在内华达州进行了露天原子弹试验，有数千名军人参加。
It does not matter anymore that only feeble attempts were made by the government to find out how these experiences affected us.
政府只是做出了微弱的尝试来了解这些经历如何影响我们，但这已经不再重要了。
Lately, I've begun to realize that I am one of the last people living in America to have actually experienced close-up explosions of atomic bombs.
最近，我开始意识到我是生活在美国的最后一批近距离经历过原子弹爆炸的人之一。
We're all dying now, and most of us are already dead.
我们现在都快死了，而且我们大多数人已经死了。
I'm not aware of anyone's health being affected by the blasts, but some years ago, I did check with the Veterans Administration about the possible radiation dosage I received during my participation.
我不知道是否有人的健康受到爆炸的影响，但几年前，我确实向退伍军人管理局核实了我在参与期间可能受到的辐射剂量。
I was informed that the radiation film badge that I wore throughout my four months at Desert Rock had been burned up in a government warehouse records fire in St. Louis some decades ago.
我被告知，我在沙漠岩四个月里佩戴的防辐射胶片徽章已在几十年前圣路易斯的政府仓库记录火灾中被烧毁。
Now, in my late years, when I can conjure that brief, surreal period of my youth, I try in vain to make some sense of it.
现在，在我晚年的时候，当我能够回忆起我年轻时那段短暂的、超现实的时光时，我徒劳地试图理解它。
And in some ways, it has become my responsibility to, at least, recollect and tell how that great flash and blast permanently reached into my very young mind and heart.
在某些方面，至少，回忆并讲述那场伟大的闪光和爆炸是如何永久地进入我幼小的思想和心灵已经成为我的责任。
How those enormous sounds deadened my ears and still ring in them to this day.
那些巨大的声音如何震慑我的耳朵，直到今天仍然在我耳边回响。
How the crush of shock waves sometimes buried us alive in our trenches.
冲击波的冲击有时如何将我们活埋在战壕里。
I feel it my duty to tell the reckless absurdity of it all.
我觉得我有责任讲述这一切的鲁莽荒谬。
In August, our president threatened to unleash fire and fury like the world has never seen.
八月，我们的总统威胁要释放世界前所未见的火焰和愤怒。
We keep threatening to unleash these bombs, so I suspect that, one day, we will.
我们一直威胁要释放这些炸弹，所以我怀疑有一天我们会的。
Most of us have forgotten what we are capable of.
我们大多数人都忘记了自己的能力。
I have not.
我没有。
Ira Glass John Conley, reading an essay by Paul Zimmer.
艾拉·格拉斯·约翰·康利，阅读保罗·齐默的文章。
A version of this essay was first published in "The Georgia Review." Paul Zimmer died in 2019.
这篇文章的一个版本首次发表在《乔治亚评论》上。保罗·齐默 (Paul Zimmer) 于 2019 年去世。
He was 85.
他85岁了。
Over his life, he had health problems that he and his family believe were related to his radiation exposure.
在他的一生中，他一直存在健康问题，他和他的家人认为这些问题与他的辐射暴露有关。
(SINGING) Oh, I'm going to let the future in, the future in.
（唱）哦，我要让未来进来，未来进来。
I'll take it on, make it on my own.
我会承担它，我自己做。
Oh, into the fire, we go again.
哦，进入火中，我们再次出发。
We go again.
我们又去了。
We shake it off before we get too old.
我们在变老之前摆脱它。
Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar.
我们今天的节目由乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Jonathan Menjivar) 制作。
The people who put our show together include Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Mariya Karimjee, David Kestenbaum, Miki Meek, B.A.
制作我们节目的人员包括 Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Mariya Karimjee、David Kestenbaum、Miki Meek、B.A.
Parker, Robyn Semien, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Diane Wu.
帕克、罗宾·塞米恩、莉莉·沙利文、克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉、马特·蒂尔尼、南希·厄普代克和黛安·吴。
Our senior producer for today's program is Bryant Reed.
我们今天节目的高级制作人是布莱恩特·里德。
Production help on today's rerun from Chloe Weiner.
克洛伊·韦纳 (Chloe Weiner) 为今天的重播节目提供制作帮助。
Special thanks today to Rebecca Sosa, to Eve Stotland at The Door, to John Freeman, Tasneem Raja, Lee Hancock, Rhonda Parker, Tyshaun Glover, Francis Guinan, Mary Zimmerman, and Bruce Norris.
今天特别感谢 Rebecca Sosa、The Door 的 Eve Stotland、John Freeman、Tasneem Raja、Lee Hancock、Rhonda Parker、Tyshaun Glover、Francis Guinan、Mary Zimmerman 和 Bruce Norris。
Our website, thisamericalife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericalife.org。
"This American Life" is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who lists his personal vices this way.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他以这种方式列出了他的个人恶习。
He has five vices, five, exactly five.
他有五种恶习，五种，正好五种。
Drugs, fruit, people, reptiles, and parrots.
毒品、水果、人、爬行动物和鹦鹉。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。