745: Getting Out - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #745 | August 27, 2021 745: Getting Out Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 745 集 | 2021 年 8 月 27 日 745：走出去 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue David Kestenbaum Kirk Johnson Ajmal, can you hear me?
序言：序言 David Kestenbaum Kirk Johnson Ajmal，你能听到我说话吗？
Yes, I can hear you.
是的，我能听到你的声音。
Kirk Johnson OK, so are you still in front of the Canadian or not?
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson）好吧，那么你是否还在加拿大人面前？
Yeah, in front of the Canadian, in the water.
是的，在加拿大人面前，在水中。
Yeah.
是的。
David Kestenbaum This is a phone call between a man in California and a man standing in a canal outside the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan.
David Kestenbaum 这是一名加利福尼亚州男子与一名站在阿富汗喀布尔机场外运河中的男子之间的电话。
That'll all make more sense in a minute.
一分钟后这一切都会变得更有意义。
We had a totally different show planned for you today.
今天我们为您计划了一场完全不同的表演。
But then, we came across this phone call.
但就在这时，我们接到了这个电话。
And it just seemed important to put it on the air now.
现在将其播出似乎很重要。
It's from Monday, before the explosions around the airport that killed dozens of people.
这是周一的事，当时机场周围发生爆炸，造成数十人死亡。
But it's a snapshot, in a way, from the last hours of this war, as the US leaves Afghanistan, when who would get out and who would not was all still being decided hour by hour.
但从某种程度上来说，这只是这场战争最后几个小时的缩影，当时美国正在撤离阿富汗，当时谁会撤离、谁不会撤离，一切都还在一个小时一个小时地决定着。
So what we're going to do on the show today is we're going to hear the story of that phone call.
所以我们今天在节目中要做的就是听听那个电话的故事。
And then we're going to play you some other stories about getting out-- about people trying to extricate themselves from seemingly impossible situations.
然后我们将为您播放一些其他关于摆脱困境的故事——关于人们试图从看似不可能的情况中解脱出来。
So the first guy you heard on the call, the guy in California, is Kirk Johnson.
所以你在电话中听到的第一个人是加利福尼亚州的柯克·约翰逊。
We've had him on the show before.
我们之前曾在节目中见过他。
And when things started to fall apart in Afghanistan, he reached out to us, because years ago, he did reconstruction work in Iraq for the US government.
当阿富汗局势开始崩溃时，他向我们伸出了援手，因为多年前，他为美国政府在伊拉克进行了重建工作。
And since then, for a long time now, he's been trying to get people in Iraq and Afghanistan who have worked with the US government and who are in danger out of those countries.
从那时起，很长一段时间以来，他一直在努力将在伊拉克和阿富汗与美国政府合作并处于危险之中的人从这些国家救出。
He started an organization back in 2007 called The List Project.
早在 2007 年，他就成立了一个名为“The List Project”的组织。
So these past weeks, Kirk has been on the phone constantly.
所以在过去的几周里，柯克一直在打电话。
And on Monday night, with his kids asleep in the other room, he had this series of phone calls which he recorded with the man you heard.
周一晚上，当他的孩子们在另一个房间睡觉时，他与你听到的那个人打了一系列电话，并进行了录音。
His name is Ajmal.
他的名字叫阿杰马尔。
And Kirk is trying to talk him through the crowds, and the confusion, and chaos around the airport in Afghanistan to try to get Ajmal and his family past all the barriers, hopefully onto a plane and out of the country.
柯克正试图说服他穿过阿富汗机场周围的人群、混乱和混乱，试图让阿杰迈勒和他的家人越过所有障碍，希望能登上飞机离开这个国家。
All of this is happening over the phone from half a world away.
所有这一切都是通过电话从半个地球之外发生的。
Nancy Updike here has known Kirk for many years.
南希·厄普代克已经认识柯克很多年了。
She talked to him about what happened.
她跟他讲述了发生的事情。
Here's Nancy.
这是南希。
Kirk didn't know Ajmal before Monday night.
周一晚上之前，柯克并不认识阿杰马尔。
He never met him.
他从未见过他。
He just heard this was a person who needed help-- one of the many people who needed help, whose names have been piling up in these threads Kirk has been on all week-- group chats with US veterans, active military, current and former diplomats and aid workers, some Afghan citizens of the US and other countries, all on their phones day and night, trying to help Afghans get out.
他刚刚听说这是一个需要帮助的人——柯克整个星期都在的帖子中堆积了许多需要帮助的人之一——与美国退伍军人、现役军人、现任和前任外交官和援助人员、美国和其他国家的一些阿富汗公民进行的群聊，他们日夜都在打电话，试图帮助阿富汗人摆脱困境。
Ajmal, can you hear me?
阿杰马尔，你能听到我说话吗？
Nancy Updike Monday night, Kirk called Ajmal.
南希·厄普代克周一晚上，柯克给阿杰马尔打了电话。
I can hear you.
我能听到你的声音。
Kirk Johnson OK, so are you still in front of the Canadian, or not?
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson）好吧，那么你是否还在加拿大人面前？
Yeah, in front of the Canadian, in the water.
是的，在加拿大人面前，在水中。
Yes.
是的。
Nancy Updike The Canadian is a Canadian soldier, and the water is the canal right outside the Kabul airport.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike） 加拿大人是一名加拿大士兵，水是喀布尔机场外的运河。
[?
[？
This ?] is not [INAUDIBLE], don't know--
这？]不是[听不清]，不知道——
The only thing Ajmal is trying to do here, the whole thing, is to slog his way to within earshot of the one Canadian soldier he can see and make himself heard above the crowd.
阿杰马尔在这里唯一想做的一件事，整件事，就是艰难地走到他能看到的一名加拿大士兵的听力范围内，并在人群中让自己的声音被听到。
Ajmal worked for an NGO funded by the United States.
阿杰马尔在美国资助的一个非政府组织工作。
And now, he and his family need to leave-- him, his parents, and his brother.
现在，他和他的家人需要离开——他、他的父母和他的兄弟。
They're luckier than most of the people around them, because they have citizenship in another country.
他们比周围的大多数人都要幸运，因为他们拥有另一个国家的公民身份。
He and his family are all Canadian citizens.
他和他的家人都是加拿大公民。
And please picture this young Canadian, Ajmal.
请想象这位年轻的加拿大人阿杰马尔。
Kirk sent me a photo of him in the canal.
柯克给我发了一张他在运河里的照片。
Ajmal is 27 years old.
阿杰马尔今年 27 岁。
Pretty sure he could pass for 19 without his goatee.
很确定如果没有山羊胡，他可以被认为是 19 岁。
He's slight, big glasses, wearing his backpack in front of him on his chest, like a nervous tourist.
他身材瘦小，戴着大眼镜，背包挂在胸前，就像一个紧张的游客。
He is knee-deep in water.
他的水深及膝盖。
On one side of the canal is a growing crowd of Afghans.
运河一侧聚集着越来越多的阿富汗人。
On the other are soldiers.
另一边是士兵。
And behind the soldiers is the path to get into the airport.
士兵后面就是进入机场的路。
Please wait, OK?
请稍等，好吗？
Kirk Johnson OK, I'm waiting.
柯克·约翰逊：好的，我在等。
Exactly how Ajmal came to be standing in a canal is, hours earlier, he'd received an email with instructions for what to do, how to get out.
阿杰马尔到底是如何站在运河里的，几个小时前，他收到了一封电子邮件，其中包含该怎么做以及如何出去的说明。
He forwarded the email to Kirk.
他将电子邮件转发给柯克。
Here's the email that Ajmal got at 3:01 AM from-- from the Canadian government.
这是 Ajmal 在凌晨 3:01 收到的来自加拿大政府的电子邮件。
Kirk read the key part.
柯克读了关键部分。
Kirk Johnson Important instructions-- go to The Baron Hotel immediately-- all caps.
Kirk Johnson 重要指示——立即前往男爵酒店——全部大写。
Do not wear Western style clothing-- all caps.
不要穿西式服装——全部戴帽子。
Be prepared to wait for many hours.
做好等待几个小时的准备。
Once inside, go to the garden and sit under the Canadian flag and wait for Canadian officials.
进入后，前往花园，坐在加拿大国旗下等待加拿大官员。
Bring food and water, if possible.
如果可能的话，带上食物和水。
That's the official process here.
这就是这里的官方流程。
Get yourself to a hotel garden, sit down under a flag.
前往酒店花园，在旗帜下坐下。
Do this immediately somehow.
立即以某种方式执行此操作。
Bring water.
带水。
Ajmal and his family had gone to the place they thought was The Baron Hotel, but it was the wrong place.
阿杰迈勒和他的家人去了他们以为是男爵酒店的地方，但其实是错误的地方。
No Canadian officials they could see-- seemed to be all British people.
他们看不到任何加拿大官员——似乎都是英国人。
So Kirk drew a map, looking at Google Maps, with the route Ajmal, his parents, and his brother needed to take, through more crowds, to get to the right place.
于是柯克在谷歌地图上画了一张地图，上面标出了阿杰马尔、他的父母和他的兄弟需要走的路线，穿过更多的人群，到达正确的地方。
The canal, believe it or not, was the right place-- or as close as they were able to get.
不管你信不信，运河是正确的地方——或者说是他们能到达的最接近的地方。
The canal is next to The Baron Hotel.
The Baron Hotel酒店毗邻运河。
And there was a Canadian soldier there.
那里有一名加拿大士兵。
They could see him.
他们可以看到他。
He had a little Canadian flag on his uniform.
他的制服上有一面加拿大小国旗。
But he kept stepping away.
但他却不断地走开。
OK, is he back?
好吧，他回来了吗？
Ajmal Yeah, they are talking with the [INAUDIBLE].
Ajmal 是的，他们正在与 [听不清] 交谈。
He's talking with someone else.
他正在和别人说话。
I'm waiting for him.
我在等他。
OK.
好的。
Jesus Christ.
耶稣基督。
Nancy Updike Ajmal is trying to get the soldier's attention, because, as I keep saying, Ajmal is a citizen of Canada.
南希·厄普代克·阿杰马尔正试图引起士兵的注意，因为正如我一直说的，阿杰马尔是加拿大公民。
He is not a supplicant.
他不是一个恳求者。
He has the right papers.
他有合适的文件。
But Ajmal, who comes across as a cautious, rule-following sort of person, with his face mask pulled neatly under his chin in case he's ever inside again, that young man is stuck in a canal.
但阿杰马尔给人的印象是一个谨慎、遵守规则的人，他的面罩整齐地拉在下巴下面，以防他再次进入里面，那个年轻人被困在运河里了。
I'll be patient.
我会耐心等待。
Don't-- Ajmal Excuse me?
不要——Ajmal 对不起？
Hey, Canada?
嘿，加拿大？
Canada?
加拿大？
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Nancy Updike Other people in this same situation might have no trouble bellowing to get someone's attention.
南希·厄普代克：处于同样情况的其他人可能会毫不费力地通过吼叫来引起别人的注意。
Soft-spoken Ajmal is saying, excuse me, excuse me, Canada?
阿杰马尔轻声说道，对不起，对不起，加拿大？
The soldier is talking to other people or walking even further away.
士兵正在与其他人交谈或者走得更远。
Ajmal asks Kirk what words he should be calling out.
阿杰马尔问柯克他应该喊出什么词。
What's a good word to call them?
称呼他们用什么词好呢？
Because they're a bit far.
因为他们有点远。
Kirk Johnson When you You get an opportunity, Ajmal, OK-- can you hear me?
柯克·约翰逊 当你有机会时，阿杰马尔，好吧——你能听到我说话吗？
Then I call you?
那我给你打电话？
Kirk Johnson No, I'm going to stay on the line with you.
柯克·约翰逊：不，我会和你保持通话。
When he finishes with this guy, you need to say that there is a friend of a Canadian minister on the phone.
当他和这个人说完后，你需要说有一位加拿大部长的朋友正在打电话。
Can you--
你能——
OK, OK, OK.
好吧，好吧，好吧。
Kirk Johnson OK?
柯克·约翰逊好吗？
A friend of a Canadian minister on the phone.
一位加拿大部长的朋友正在打电话。
It's true.
这是真的。
Kirk, through his wife, is friends with a Canadian member of parliament, a minister, who, at that point, was fast asleep and had no idea this was happening.
柯克通过他的妻子，与一位加拿大议会议员、部长是朋友，当时他正在熟睡，不知道发生了这种事。
Kirk is trying to think of anything he can tell Ajmal to say to get the soldier's attention.
柯克正在思考他可以告诉阿吉马尔说些什么来引起士兵的注意。
Namedropping?
借名？
Yes, sure, definitely.
是的，当然，绝对。
Where is he?
他在哪儿？
Ajmal Uh, he left [INAUDIBLE].
Ajmal 呃，他离开了[听不清]。
I'm waiting for him.
我在等他。
OK, I don't want you to just say Canada.
好吧，我不想让你只说加拿大。
I want you to say, I'm a Canadian citizen.
我想让你说，我是加拿大公民。
OK, OK.
好的，好的。
Kirk Johnson He doesn't know me.
柯克·约翰逊 他不认识我。
He's putting trust in me.
他信任我。
I don't know him.
我不认识他。
I've already pushed him to fight through the crowd and jump into the canal.
我已经推着他挤过人群，跳进运河里了。
That was your idea, to get in the canal?
进入运河是你的主意吗？
By the time of that phone call, that was already-- when he got to the back end of that crowd and saw thousands of people, he said, there's-- I can't do this.
到那个电话的时候，他已经到了人群的最后面，看到了成千上万的人，他说，我不能这样做。
There's no-- I have my parents here.
不——我有我的父母在这里。
We can't get to the front.
我们无法到达前线。
We're just going to have to try another day, or wait for you to work your connections to get the Canadians to come out and find us.
我们只能改天再试，或者等你利用你的人脉让加拿大人出来找到我们。
And I told him-- this is over text-- but I was like, they're not going to come out for you.
我告诉他——这是通过短信——但我当时想，他们不会出来找你的。
You have to push through that crowd.
你必须挤过那群人。
And his sister was on the thread, and a couple other people who had been trying to help him.
他的妹妹和其他几个一直试图帮助他的人也加入了进来。
And they were messaging me, saying, go easy on him.
他们给我发信息说，对他宽容一些。
He was in the hospital last week with a panic attack.
上周他因惊恐发作住院。
You know, they were basically saying, he's already at the breaking point.
你知道，他们基本上是在说，他已经到了崩溃的边缘。
But I knew that, if he couldn't get within earshot of a Canadian soldier, he had-- there was nothing.
但我知道，如果他无法进入加拿大士兵的听力范围内，那么他就——什么也没有了。
Not knowing, if he gives up today, whether or not the doors will be completely shut tomorrow.
不知道，如果他今天放弃，明天的大门是否会彻底关闭。
And the other thing that is weighing on me, but that I'm not telling him, is this dread of one rogue Talib opening fire into that crowd, one IED going off in that crowd.
另一件让我感到沉重但我没有告诉他的事情是，我害怕一个流氓塔利班向人群开火，一枚简易爆炸装置在人群中爆炸。
Less than 24 hours after we talked, a bomb was detonated outside the airport.
我们交谈后不到24小时，一枚炸弹在机场外引爆。
And someone started shooting into the crowd.
有人开始向人群开枪。
So everything came down to trying to get him in the right point on Earth where his voice would be loud enough to be heard, and strong enough to be listened to.
因此，一切都归结为试图让他到达地球上的正确位置，让他的声音足够响亮，足以让人们听到。
What-- what do you-- OK.
你做什么——好吧。
Ajmal I think they're leaving the spot.
Ajmal 我认为他们要离开这个地方了。
Please, please talk to them.
拜托，请和他们谈谈。
You have-- you have to shout, I'm a Canadian citizen.
你必须大喊，我是加拿大公民。
Do it right now, if you see them.
如果您看到它们，请立即执行。
Canadian!
加拿大人！
Kirk Johnson Not, Canadian.
柯克·约翰逊 不是，加拿大人。
Say, Canadian citizen.
说吧，加拿大公民。
You can't just say Canadian, Ajmal.
你不能只说加拿大人，Ajmal。
You have to say Canadian citizen.
你必须说加拿大公民。
Canadian citizen!
加拿大公民！
Kirk Johnson Keep saying that.
柯克·约翰逊 继续这么说。
Nancy Updike If you have sharp ears, you can hear Kirk swearing under his breath all during this call, basically cursing his way through the stress.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）如果你的耳朵很敏锐，你就能听到柯克在整个通话过程中低声咒骂，基本上是通过咒骂来缓解压力。
What's happening?
发生什么事了？
Ajmal I think the [INAUDIBLE] is increasing.
Ajmal 我认为 [听不清] 正在增加。
I don't know what's happening.
我不知道发生了什么事。
He's saying the crowd is increasing.
他说人群正在增加。
It's increasing.
它正在增加。
The crowds are increasing.
人群越来越多。
Kirk Johnson I know.
柯克·约翰逊我知道。
I know, but you are in the right-- you are in the right position.
我知道，但你是对的——你处于正确的位置。
You can't give up right now.
你现在不能放弃。
You--
你——
OK, so I am inside, so-- but my family is down.
好吧，我在里面，但是我的家人都很沮丧。
They are-- they are back.
他们——他们回来了。
Kirk is groaning, because he didn't realize Ajmal was separated from his family, his parents, and his brother at this point.
柯克正在呻吟，因为他没有意识到阿杰马尔此时已与他的家人、父母和兄弟分开。
Even if they're not that far away right now, while Ajmal and Kirk are focused on connecting with this soldier, Ajmal's family could get pushed out of sight as the crowd keeps swelling and pushing forward.
即使他们现在距离不远，当阿杰迈勒和柯克专注于与这名士兵联系时，随着人群不断膨胀并向前推进，阿杰迈勒的家人可能会被赶出视线。
A bad scenario would be Ajmal ends up getting out, but his family stays lost in the throng.
一个糟糕的情况是阿杰马尔最终逃走了，但他的家人却迷失在人群中。
On these group threads, these chats Kirk is following, they are full of stories of family members getting separated.
在这些群组线程中，柯克关注的这些聊天中充满了家庭成员失散的故事。
Ajmal hadn't wanted to bring his parents and his brother into this gross canal unless it was clear they were going to get out.
阿杰迈勒不想把他的父母和兄弟带进这条粗大的运河，除非他们明确要出去。
He said the bottom of the canal had these slippery stones, and he worried one of his parents would fall and injure themselves.
他说运河底部有这些滑的石头，他担心他的父母之一会摔倒受伤。
Now there's no time for Ajmal to break off and go get them.
现在阿杰马尔没有时间停下来去拿它们了。
He has to keep trying to reach this soldier.
他必须继续努力接近这名士兵。
You can't lose that spot.
你不能失去那个位置。
You have that-- you had that soldier right in front of you.
那个士兵就在你面前。
He's going to come back.
他会回来的。
So here-- he's so far.
所以在这里——他到目前为止。
I think it's impossible.
我认为这是不可能的。
Is there any other way?
还有其他办法吗？
You have to stay in that spot and wait for him to come back.
你必须留在原地，等他回来。
The fact that you just sent me that picture--
事实上你刚刚给我发了那张照片——
Call me back as soon as he gets close, OK?
他一靠近就给我回电话，好吗？
OK, OK, OK.
好吧，好吧，好吧。
Nancy Updike Just in case anyone is finding their ire at this point focused on Canada, I want to state the obvious and say that, in the big picture, this was our show, the United States-- our plans, our timeline.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）以防万一有人发现他们的愤怒集中在加拿大身上，我想声明显而易见的事情，并说，从大局来看，这是我们的节目，美国 - 我们的计划，我们的时间表。
Those were dictating the overall scene at the airport.
这些决定了机场的整体场景。
Ajmal and Kirk got back on the phone.
阿杰马尔和柯克重新通了电话。
They'd been at it for almost six hours.
他们已经干了将近六个小时了。
Do not let him go away without saying, you're a Canadian citizen, and a minister is on the phone.
不要让他离开而不说，你是加拿大公民，并且部长正在打电话。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Nancy Updike A long minute goes by where Kirk can't tell what's happening.
[插话] 南希·厄普代克 漫长的一分钟过去了，柯克无法分辨发生了什么。
Ajmal keeps asking him, please wait, please wait.
阿杰马尔不断地问他，请等一下，请等一下。
Please wait here.
请在此等候。
Kirk Johnson Don't-- don't worry about me.
柯克·约翰逊：别——别担心我。
Just do not let him leave without saying what I told you.
只是不要让他在没有说出我告诉你的事情之前就离开。
Another half minute.
又是半分钟。
Ajmal is fighting off despair.
阿杰马尔正在与绝望作斗争。
The soldier isn't responding to him.
士兵没有回应他。
So he is not responding, he just told me.
所以他没有回应，只是告诉我。
What did you say?
你说什么？
Ajmal He is so [INAUDIBLE].
Ajmal 他是如此[听不清]。
Are you still close to him?
你还离他很近吗？
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
[插话]
[INTERPOSING VOICES] --and then suddenly--
[插话]——然后突然——
Yes, who am I talking to?
是啊，我在跟谁说话呢？
Man Who's this?
男人这是谁？
This is Kirk Johnson.
这是柯克·约翰逊。
I've served with USAID in Iraq--
我曾在伊拉克的美国国际开发署服役——
[INAUDIBLE] Kirk Johnson --sorry, can you hear me?
[听不清] Kirk Johnson——抱歉，你能听到我说话吗？
Yes, I can hear you.
是的，我能听到你的声音。
Kirk Johnson OK, you have four Canadian citizens there.
柯克·约翰逊 好的，那里有四名加拿大公民。
I'm calling on behalf of Mélanie Joly, who is a minister of economic development for Canada.
我代表加拿大经济发展部长梅兰妮·乔利致电。
You have four Canadian citizens.
你们有四名加拿大公民。
They were asked to go in there right now.
他们被要求现在就进去。
And they've been pushed back several times so far.
到目前为止，他们已经被推迟了好几次。
Yeah, we're going to process them.
是的，我们将处理它们。
In the meantime, there's a lot of people here.
与此同时，这里已经有很多人了。
We will process them, OK?
我们会处理它们，好吗？
I understand, but I just need your assurance that they're going to get through, because one of the group is in poor health.
我理解，但我只需要你保证他们能够渡过难关，因为其中一个人的健康状况不佳。
And I know that Mélanie Joly is--
我知道梅兰妮·乔莉是——
Yeah, yeah, we will-- Kirk Johnson --she's-- the minister is wanting-- she wants it--
是的，是的，我们会——柯克·约翰逊——她——部长想要——她想要——
I need to be able to tell the minister that they're through.
我需要能够告诉部长他们已经结束了。
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, sir.
是的，我明白你在说什么，先生。
I'm going to look at his paperwork, and they will be able to get through, OK?
我要看看他的文件，他们就能通过，好吗？
OK, I'm going to stay on the line.
好的，我会保持通话状态。
Thank you for doing that, sir.
谢谢你这么做，先生。
I appreciate it.
我很感激。
--need to be patient.
——需要有耐心。
It's-- Kirk Johnson I know-- I know you got your hands full.
这是——柯克·约翰逊，我知道——我知道你忙得不可开交。
--pretty hectic here, so we have to be patient, OK?
--这里非常忙碌，所以我们必须要有耐心，好吗？
Tell them to be patient.
告诉他们要有耐心。
Kirk Johnson I'm grateful to you for your help, sir.
柯克·约翰逊先生，我很感谢你的帮助。
Thank you.
谢谢。
[INAUDIBLE] Nancy Updike It's not clear if the Canadian minister gambit carried any sway with this soldier.
[听不清] 南希·厄普代克 目前尚不清楚加拿大部长的策略是否对这名士兵产生了任何影响。
He mostly sounds like he wanted to get off the phone and get back to work.
他听起来大多是想挂掉电话，回去工作。
But Ajmal finally had his attention.
但阿吉马尔终于引起了他的注意。
And what a frightening degree of perseverance it took Ajmal to get to this point, where he could just hand someone his papers.
阿杰迈勒需要多么可怕的毅力才能走到这一步，他可以把自己的证件交给别人。
And even perseverance most likely wouldn't have been enough without luck, without connections to these groups Kirk and others are part of, or to someone else with power.
如果没有运气，没有与柯克和其他人所属的这些团体或其他有权势的人的联系，即使是坚持也很可能是不够的。
How many people in the crowd around Ajmal had perseverance, even courage, but none of the luck?
阿杰马尔周围的人群中有多少人有毅力，甚至勇气，但没有运气？
OK, get your family close to you.
好吧，让你的家人靠近你。
OK?
好的？
I don't care--
我不在乎——
Tell my family to come?
叫我家人来吗？
Kirk Johnson Tell-- tell them to come.
柯克·约翰逊·泰尔——告诉他们来。
You may have to wait a while, but do not-- do not be separate from them now.
你可能需要等待一段时间，但现在不要与他们分开。
Yes.
是的。
Kirk Johnson Do not move where you are, OK?
柯克·约翰逊 别动，好吗？
OK, OK.
好的，好的。
Nancy Updike Kirk and I did this interview a day and a half after this call with Ajmal ended.
南希·厄普代克·柯克和我在与阿杰马尔的通话结束一天半后进行了这次采访。
And Kirk was still waiting to hear if Ajmal and his family made it out.
柯克仍在等待阿杰马尔和他的家人能否成功逃脱。
Then, finally, he got a text from him.
然后，终于，他收到了他的短信。
It came through as Kirk and I were finishing up our interview.
当我和柯克结束采访时，这件事发生了。
Kirk Johnson He texted me-- hang on-- oh my god.
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson）他给我发短信——等一下——天啊。
What?
什么？
Kirk Johnson They just got on a plane.
柯克·约翰逊 他们刚刚登上飞机。
They're--
他们是——
Ajmal and his family, they're on a plane?
阿杰马尔和他的家人，他们在飞机上吗？
Yes.
是的。
Nancy Updike There's one part of Ajmal's story that took Kirk's breath away, even in the retelling.
南希·厄普代克 阿吉马尔的故事中有一个部分让柯克惊叹不已，即使是在重述的过程中也是如此。
It was the way Ajmal ended up finding his brother after he'd made contact with the soldier, because Ajmal's family, as Kirk had feared, had gotten lost in the crowd.
这就是阿杰马尔在与这名士兵取得联系后最终找到他兄弟的方式，因为正如柯克担心的那样，阿杰马尔的家人在人群中迷路了。
You don't have to have brothers to feel this, but my brothers are my best friends.
你不一定要有兄弟才能感受到这一点，但我的兄弟是我最好的朋友。
And the way that I subsequently found out he was able to-- to get them was that he just called from the canal into this crowd, asking his fellow Afghans to start calling his brother's name.
我后来发现他能够得到这些东西的方式是，他只是从运河上向人群呼喊，要求他的阿富汗同胞开始呼喊他兄弟的名字。
And they all started shouting it out.
他们都开始大声喊出来。
And that's how they found his-- his brother and parents.
这就是他们找到他的——他的兄弟和父母的方式。
And so they then got into the canal from there and joined him.
于是他们从那里进入运河并加入了他。
You know, like, I want to feel-- I want to feel like, proud about this, and feel like this is a good story.
你知道，我想要感觉——我想要感觉，为此感到自豪，感觉这是一个好故事。
But it's just-- there's so much more suffering that has happened, and people that aren't getting through.
但这只是——已经发生了更多的苦难，还有更多的人无法度过难关。
I don't want people who hear this to think that-- you know, people who are sort of discomfited by what they're hearing about this, who may not really be close to the situation or understand what's going on, to be like, oh, hey, I heard it's bad, but hey, all right, good.
我不希望听到这个消息的人认为——你知道，那些对他们所听到的事情感到有点不安的人，他们可能并不真正了解情况或了解正在发生的事情，就像，哦，嘿，我听说这很糟糕，但是嘿，好吧，很好。
Now, this guy-- this has a happy ending.
现在，这个家伙——这有一个幸福的结局。
This has a happy ending for this guy and his family, and for a small percentage of the lucky few that are getting through.
对于这个人和他的家人，以及一小部分幸存下来的幸运儿来说，这有一个幸福的结局。
I-- I fear that we're-- you know, we're not going to really see the full toll of this when this is all over.
我——我担心我们——你知道，当这一切结束时，我们不会真正看到这一切的全部代价。
And we're-- we're just about at the end of this whole disaster, and at the start of something much darker, I fear.
我担心，我们即将迎来整个灾难的结束，而更黑暗的事情即将开始。
I fear that, too.
我也担心这个。
David Kestenbaum Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up, some of our favorite stories we've run about getting out, including a choose your own adventure story about getting out of a relationship.
接下来是我们最喜欢的一些关于摆脱关系的故事，包括选择你自己的关于摆脱一段关系的冒险故事。
Yeah, choose your own adventure on the radio, somehow.
是的，不知何故，在广播中选择你自己的冒险经历。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm David Kestenbaum, in for Ira Glass.
我是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆，代表艾拉·格拉斯。
This week on our show, getting out-- stories of people making it out of seemingly impossible situations, or trying to, anyway.
本周，我们的节目《走出去》讲述了人们摆脱看似不可能的处境，或者无论如何都在努力摆脱困境的故事。
Act two-- You Can Check Out Any Time You Like, But You Can Never Leave.
第二幕——您可以随时退房，但永远不能离开。
So one of the things about trying to get out of an intense situation is that it can feel like every little decision you make might take you down the wrong path.
因此，试图摆脱紧张局面的一件事是，你可能会觉得你所做的每一个小决定都可能会让你走上错误的道路。
Back when she was a teenager, one of our co-workers, Elna Baker, found herself in that position.
当她十几岁的时候，我们的一位同事埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）发现自己处于这样的境地。
She was trapped in a hotel room with her siblings, held there by a stranger.
她和她的兄弟姐妹被困在酒店房间里，被一个陌生人抱在那里。
What happened was, their family was all staying at this Marriott.
事情是这样的，他们一家人都住在这家万豪酒店。
But they're such a big family that the parents and the oldest kid were in one room.
但他们是一个大家庭，父母和最大的孩子都住在一个房间里。
Elna and the three other kids were next door in their own room.
艾尔娜和其他三个孩子在隔壁自己的房间里。
There was Elna, who was 14 at the time, Julia, who was 10, Briton, who was eight, and Jill, who was five.
当时埃尔娜 14 岁，朱莉娅 10 岁，布里顿 8 岁，吉尔 5 岁。
Elna was sharing a bed with her.
艾尔娜和她同睡一张床。
Elna, who was in eighth grade at the time, was more or less in charge.
当时上八年级的艾尔娜或多或少是负责人。
And then one night, they're all asleep.
然后有一天晚上，他们都睡着了。
It's the middle of the night.
现在是半夜。
She told this all to Ira.
她把这一切告诉了艾拉。
My memory is that-- it's like-- I saw like, a sliver of light, which is what woke me up, and the sound of the door closing.
我的记忆是——就像——我看到了一条光，这就是把我吵醒的，还有门关上的声音。
And there was the feeling that there was someone standing at the foot of the bed.
而且有一种感觉，床脚站着一个人。
Mhm.
嗯。
Elna Baker So I reached over, and I turned the lamp on.
埃尔娜·贝克于是我伸出手，打开了灯。
And there was this woman.
还有这个女人。
Wow.
哇。
Elna Baker And she looked startled to see us.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）看到我们，她看上去很惊讶。
And the first thing she said was, you're just children.
她说的第一句话是，你们只是孩子。
I didn't expect you to be children.
我没想到你还是个孩子。
So that's pretty creepy.
所以这非常令人毛骨悚然。
Elna Baker Right.
埃尔娜·贝克 对。
I instantly felt like this is an unsafe situation.
我立刻觉得这是一个不安全的情况。
Yeah.
是的。
Describe her.
描述一下她。
Elna Baker I remember she was my mom's age.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker） 我记得她和我妈妈同龄。
So she was probably in her 40s.
所以她大概40多岁。
Mhm.
嗯。
Elna Baker And brown hair, white, kind of like, frumpy-looking, like somebody you'd sit next to on the bus or something.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 棕色头发，白色，有点像，看起来很破旧，就像你在公共汽车上或其他什么地方坐在旁边的人。
Did she seem menacing?
她看起来有威胁吗？
Elna Baker She seemed really distressed.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）她看上去真的很苦恼。
She was crying, too.
她也哭了。
She was crying?
她在哭？
Elna Baker She was crying, yeah.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）她哭了，是的。
She cried the whole time she was there.
她在那儿的整个过程中都在哭。
She's crying, and she said, you're children.
她哭了，她说，你们还是孩子。
I didn't expect you to be children.
我没想到你还是个孩子。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass And do the other kids get up?
Ira Glass 其他孩子起床了吗？
Everyone's wide awake.
大家都很清醒。
I distinctly remember my little brothers' and sisters' faces, because their eyes were just huge.
我清楚地记得弟弟妹妹们的脸，因为他们的眼睛很大。
But no one said anything.
但没有人说什么。
And are they sitting up, too, or are they just laying flat still?
他们是也坐着，还是只是平躺着？
They're still laying flat.
他们仍然平躺着。
Nobody moved.
没有人动。
So what happens next?
那么接下来会发生什么呢？
Elna Baker She's talking, right?
埃尔娜·贝克 她在说话，对吧？
This isn't how it was supposed to be.
这不应该是这样的。
And she's also crying.
她也在哭。
And she's talking to herself.
她正在自言自语。
I remember it being very hard to follow what she was saying.
我记得我很难听懂她说的话。
Yeah.
是的。
Elna Baker And eventually, I said, I'm sorry, I think you have the wrong room.
埃尔娜·贝克：最后，我说，对不起，我想你走错房间了。
And she started to cry.
她开始哭泣。
And she said, I know, I know.
她说，我知道，我知道。
I do this, I do this.
我这样做，我这样做。
I don't know why I do this.
我不知道我为什么要这样做。
And then she's pacing back and forth, and kind of crying.
然后她来回踱步，还哭了。
And she sits down on the bed, at the foot of the bed.
她坐在床上，床脚处。
Did she seem crazy, or did she seem upset?
她看起来是疯了，还是心烦意乱？
I mean, it's interesting.
我的意思是，这很有趣。
I was-- I think I-- I was too young and unfamiliar to identify what a crazy person seems like.
我当时——我想我——我太年轻、太陌生，无法识别一个疯狂的人是什么样子。
Yeah.
是的。
Elna Baker But what I could identify in that moment was that this person was unpredictable.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 但在那一刻我可以确定的是，这个人是不可预测的。
So you guys were like, oh, I've got to be really careful how I do this.
所以你们就像，哦，我必须非常小心地做这件事。
I remember feeling that pressure, and in that moment, very, very, very aware of my brothers and sisters, because they were so little.
我记得感受到了那种压力，在那一刻，我非常非常非常地意识到我的兄弟姐妹，因为他们太小了。
And--
和 -
Yeah.
是的。
Elna Baker --that something bad could happen to them.
埃尔娜·贝克——他们可能会遇到不好的事情。
And that the way that it wasn't going to happen to them was me.
而这件事不会发生在他们身上的方式就是我。
There were no adults there.
那里没有大人。
I think it was the first situation I was ever in where there was-- you couldn't defer to someone else to keep you safe or tell you what to do.
我认为这是我遇到的第一个情况——你不能听从别人来保证你的安全或告诉你该怎么做。
And what do I do?
我该怎么办？
And it had that quality of like-- like, time slows down.
它有一种感觉——就像时间变慢了。
And you're kind of-- you're there, but you're also watching.
你就在那里，但你也在观看。
And so then, I did the math in my head.
然后，我在心里算了一下。
And I was like, OK, I have a couple options.
我当时想，好吧，我有几个选择。
They are cry for help, scream.
他们呼救、尖叫。
But I don't think anyone will hear.
但我想没有人会听到。
Mhm.
嗯。
Elna Baker I remember looking at how far away the phone was from me.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 我记得看着手机离我有多远。
Mhm.
嗯。
Elna Baker And I realized I can reach and grab the phone, and I could call for help.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker） 我意识到我可以伸手抓住电话，并且可以打电话寻求帮助。
Or even like, if I could knock on the door where my sister was--
或者甚至是，如果我能敲我姐姐所在的门——
Sister in the connecting room next door.
隔壁连通房的姐姐。
I could at least-- they would know something was happening in here.
我至少可以——他们会知道这里发生了什么事。
And they could get to us in time.
他们可以及时找到我们。
Yeah.
是的。
Elna Baker But all of that felt like an escalation, like I would provoke her.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）：但这一切感觉就像是事态升级，就像我会激怒她一样。
And so what can I do to not provoke her and kind of play up the fact that we're children?
那么我该怎么做才能不激怒她并夸大我们还是孩子的事实呢？
And what I felt I needed to do was I needed to calm her down and become her friend.
我觉得我需要做的是让她平静下来并成为她的朋友。
And if I could become her friend, she would leave, and she wouldn't hurt us.
如果我能成为她的朋友，她就会离开，而且她不会伤害我们。
Just make her think I was on her side.
让她觉得我是站在她这边的。
Because then-- it didn't feel like she didn't see us as people.
因为那时——她并没有把我们当作人来看待。
It just felt like-- it felt dangerous, and I didn't understand why.
只是感觉——感觉很危险，但我不明白为什么。
And I felt like the key to being safe was slowing everything down.
我觉得安全的关键是放慢一切速度。
And I remember her saying, I'm really sorry.
我记得她说，我真的很抱歉。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry I'm here.
抱歉我在这里。
I'm sorry I'm doing this.
很抱歉我正在这样做。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Mhm.
嗯。
Elna Baker And I don't remember this, but my brother remembers that what she said was, I'm sorry, girls.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）：我不记得了，但我哥哥记得她说的是，对不起，女孩们。
I'm sorry, girls.
对不起，姑娘们。
And that his whole memory of this night was just being like, I'm a boy.
他对这一晚的全部记忆就是，我是个男孩。
[LAUGHS] He was so mad.
[笑]他太生气了。
And so I ask her-- I said, are you OK?
所以我问她——我说，你还好吗？
Is everything OK?
一切都好吗？
And that's-- she kept, you know, going on about how her night was so hard.
那就是——你知道，她一直在说她的夜晚是多么艰难。
And I was like, I'm so sorry.
我当时想，我很抱歉。
That sounds really, really difficult.
这听起来真的非常非常困难。
Yeah, this is me trying to befriend her.
是的，这是我想和她交朋友。
But it's weird, I feel like-- I was hyper alert to like, if I can understand what's going on with her, I can help solve it.
但这很奇怪，我觉得——我非常警惕，如果我能理解她发生了什么事，我就能帮助解决它。
But I couldn't understand, because it didn't make any sense.
但我无法理解，因为这没有任何意义。
Did you feel sorry for her?
你为她感到难过吗？
Elna Baker I felt concerned for her.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）我为她感到担心。
Yeah.
是的。
Elna Baker And-- and then she took out her purse.
埃尔娜·贝克 然后——然后她拿出了钱包。
And she reached into her purse, and then she gripped onto something.
她把手伸进钱包，然后抓住了某个东西。
And I remember thinking like, oh no, like, what-- the way-- like, if that--
我记得我当时想，哦不，就像，什么——方式——比如，如果那样的话——
Right, gun, or a knife or something.
对，枪，或者刀什么的。
I remember my heart just dropping.
我记得我的心在坠落。
And then she pulled out a hairbrush.
然后她拿出一把发刷。
And then she just started brushing her hair, like, at the foot of my bed.
然后她就开始梳理头发，就像在我的床脚一样。
Wow.
哇。
Elna Baker And-- and then at that point, I was like, this is really weird.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 然后——那时，我就想，这真的很奇怪。
Like, this is like--
就像，这就像——
Right.
正确的。
Elna Baker And I don't think she's going to leave.
埃尔娜·贝克：我认为她不会离开。
And then she sat on the vanity in front of the mirror, at the desk.
然后她坐在书桌前镜子前的梳妆台上。
And she took her earrings off.
然后她摘下了耳环。
And--
和 -
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Elna Baker And she started like-- she took her shoes off.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker） 她开始脱掉鞋子。
She took her coat off.
她脱掉外套。
She was just like--
她就像——
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Elna Baker --making herself comfortable to like, be here now.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）——让自己感到舒服，现在就在这里。
Right.
正确的。
Elna Baker And so I let her do all that, and was sort of listening to her go on about what was wrong.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）所以我让她做这一切，并听她继续讲述哪里出了问题。
And then eventually, after I felt like enough time had passed, I said, we have to wake up early to go to school tomorrow.
最后，当我觉得已经过去了足够的时间后，我说，我们明天必须早起去上学。
And we're really tired, so I think we should probably go back to bed now.
我们真的很累，所以我想我们现在应该回去睡觉了。
And she was like, I know, I know.
她说，我知道，我知道。
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
对不起，对不起。
I'm sorry I'm here.
抱歉我在这里。
I'm here.
我在这儿。
I'm sorry I'm here.
抱歉我在这里。
And I said, no, it's totally fine that you're here-- almost like, you know, thank you for being here.
我说，不，你在这里完全没问题——几乎就像，你知道，谢谢你来到这里。
But do you mind leaving now?
但你介意现在离开吗？
And so I very slowly stood up and walked over to the door.
于是我慢慢地站起来，向门口走去。
And every moment was like making sure I was safe.
每时每刻都像是在确保我的安全。
And then I open the door.
然后我打开门。
And she said, OK, OK.
她说，好吧，好吧。
And she put her shoes on, and then she started to leave.
她穿上鞋子，然后开始离开。
And just as she was about to leave, I said, oh, you forgot your earrings.
正当她准备离开时，我说，哦，你忘了戴耳环。
And then she was like-- started crying all over again, like it was this huge thing, walked over to get the earrings, and then sat back down on the bed.
然后她又开始哭了，就像这是一个巨大的东西，走过去拿耳环，然后坐回床上。
And I remember thinking like, goddamn, why did I bring up the earrings?
我记得我当时想，天哪，我为什么要提起耳环？
We were so close to being safe.
我们已经非常接近安全了。
So then the whole thing-- basically, the whole thing started all over again, where I had to like, listen to her cry, calm her down.
然后整个事情——基本上，整个事情又重新开始，我必须喜欢，听她哭，让她平静下来。
And then finally, I'm like, you know, we have to wake up early to go to school.
最后，我想，你知道，我们必须早起去上学。
Do you mind leaving?
你介意离开吗？
And I walked her to the door.
我送她到门口。
And she walked out of the door.
她走出了门。
And then as soon as she was out of the door, I just pushed the door as hard as I could to close it.
然后她一出门，我就用尽全身力气把门关上。
And when I pushed it, like basically slammed it shut, she screamed at the top of her lungs.
当我推开它时，就像把它关上一样，她大声尖叫起来。
And is there a bolt or something on the door?
门上有螺栓什么的吗？
I think I did bolt it after I slammed it shut.
我想我是在关上门之后才把它锁上的。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Elna Baker And then I heard her screaming in the hallway.
埃尔娜·贝克 然后我听到她在走廊里尖叫。
And then she ran down the hallway, screaming.
然后她尖叫着跑过走廊。
And then she ran back towards the door, screaming.
然后她尖叫着跑回门口。
And--
和 -
It was so scary.
太可怕了。
And then-- then it got-- was quiet.
然后——然后——就安静了。
And then I heard this loud-- she's like banging on the door, like as hard as she can, right?
然后我听到这个声音——她就像用尽全力敲门一样，对吧？
And then I hear a voice, and it's my dad.
然后我听到一个声音，是我爸爸。
And my dad's like, open the door.
我爸爸就像，打开门。
Open the door.
打开门。
And I realize it's not her banging on the door.
我意识到这不是她在敲门。
So I open the door.
所以我打开门。
And my dad's standing there, and he's like, did you hear someone screaming in the hallway?
我爸爸站在那里，他说，你听到走廊里有人尖叫了吗？
So then I tell him this whole story.
然后我告诉他整个故事。
I'm like, there was this woman.
我想，有这个女人。
She was in our room.
她在我们的房间里。
I tell him all the details.
我告诉他所有的细节。
And he is furious.
他很愤怒。
He was so mad.
他太生气了。
And then he told us to stay there, shut the door, don't open the door.
然后他告诉我们呆在那里，关上门，不要开门。
And then he went downstairs and talked to the hotel about it.
然后他就下楼跟酒店说了这件事。
Yeah, what did he learn?
是啊，他学到了什么？
Elna Baker They tell him that she had been outside.
埃尔娜·贝克 他们告诉他她一直在外面。
She was crying.
她在哭。
They asked if she was a guest there.
他们问她是否是那里的客人。
She said yes, her name was Elena Baker.
她说是的，她的名字叫埃琳娜·贝克。
And so they looked up the name.
于是他们查了这个名字。
Elena Baker?
埃琳娜·贝克？
Elna Baker Elena Baker, yeah.
埃尔娜·贝克 埃琳娜·贝克，是的。
And your name is Elna Baker.
你的名字是埃尔娜·贝克。
Elna Baker Yes.
埃尔娜·贝克 是的。
OK.
好的。
Elna Baker But I don't believe this part of the story.
埃尔娜·贝克：但我不相信故事的这一部分。
I think someone at the hotel just said this to him to cover.
我想酒店里有人对他说了这句话只是为了掩饰。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Elna Baker Yeah.
埃尔娜·贝克 是的。
And so the hotel offered him, you know, the whole stay for free, everything for free.
所以酒店为他提供了整个住宿免费的服务，一切都是免费的。
And he's like, I don't care about your money.
他说，我不在乎你的钱。
I want you guys to do a formal investigation as to how this happened.
我希望你们对这件事是如何发生的进行正式调查。
Wow, that's such a white-man-takes-charge move.
哇，这真是白人主导的举动。
My dad's not white.
我爸爸不是白人。
Ira Glass Oh, point taken.
艾拉·格拉斯 哦，明白了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
He's a Hispanic man.
他是一名西班牙裔男子。
Ira Glass I was just thinking, you just never hear like, somebody be like, I demand a formal investigation, you know what I mean?
Ira Glass 我只是在想，你从来没有听说过，有人会说，我要求进行正式调查，你知道我的意思吗？
It's like he's a member of Congress or something, you know?
就像他是国会议员之类的，你知道吗？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Ira Glass All right, anyway--
艾拉·格拉斯 好吧，无论如何——
But that's what-- I mean, that's totally how my dad would-- like, that's my dad.
但这就是——我的意思是，这完全是我父亲想要的，那就是我的父亲。
Point taken.
点已采取。
OK.
好的。
Elna Baker And so they do a formal investigation, which they then send to my dad.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）因此他们进行了正式调查，然后将其发送给我父亲。
And--
和 -
Long after you've like, gone from the hotel.
很久之后你就离开了酒店。
Exactly.
确切地。
And in it, there's a picture of the woman.
里面还有那个女人的照片。
And then there's her history.
然后是她的历史。
She had been in a psychiatric hospital and escaped that night, come to the hotel.
她本来在精神病院里，当晚逃了出来，来到了酒店。
And she had a long history of breaking into people's homes.
而且她有闯入别人家的悠久历史。
And he's not certain about this part, so I don't--
他对这部分不确定，所以我不——
He doesn't remember it?
他不记得了？
Elna Baker He doesn't remember, but he says that he remembers there being-- she had attacked people when she'd broken into their homes.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）：他不记得了，但他说他记得有——她闯入人们的家时袭击了人们。
That's what he remembers?
他记得的就是这个？
Elna Baker That's what he remembers.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）：这就是他的记忆。
That part of the story-- the investigation, who the woman was-- Elna only found that out a couple of years ago when she asked her dad about it.
故事的这一部分——调查，那个女人是谁——埃尔娜几年前问她爸爸时才知道这一点。
At the time, back when she was 14, her parents kept all that from her and her brother and sisters.
当时，在她 14 岁的时候，她的父母对她和她的兄弟姐妹隐瞒了所有这些。
They didn't want them to dwell on it or make them afraid of the world.
他们不想让他们沉迷其中或让他们害怕这个世界。
They didn't want that evening to become a bigger deal than it already was.
他们不希望那天晚上变得比现在更严重。
And Elna says today, that worked.
艾尔娜今天说，这很有效。
And it's funny, I've-- even as I've told this story over the years, people are like, oh, that's so traumatic, or that's crazy.
有趣的是，即使我多年来一直在讲述这个故事，人们也会说，哦，这太痛苦了，或者这太疯狂了。
And I don't think of it like that.
我不这么认为。
How so?
为何如此？
Elna Baker It just-- it just was sort of like a-- because nothing bad happened, it has no category for me, if that makes sense.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker） 它只是——它有点像——因为没有发生任何不好的事情，它对我来说没有类别，如果这有意义的话。
It's been easier-- it was easier to just think like, oh, this one-- this weird thing happened one night when we were in a hotel.
这更容易了——更容易思考，哦，这个——一天晚上我们在旅馆里时发生了一件奇怪的事情。
In retrospect, would you have preferred if they had told you back when you were 14?
回想起来，如果他们在你 14 岁时告诉你，你会更愿意吗？
No, I think it's good that I got to live in a world that I think is safe.
不，我认为生活在一个我认为安全的世界里很好。
On the other hand, she says, if they had made clear how much danger she was in, the family's memory of it and her memory of it wouldn't be of this weird event with no category, this random thing that happened one night.
另一方面，她说，如果他们清楚地表明她面临着多大的危险，家人对这件事的记忆和她对这件事的记忆就不会是这个没有类别的奇怪事件，这个一天晚上发生的随机事件。
Instead, it would fit squarely into the category called victory-- solid win for 14-year-old girl in a big, religious family, when she got that stranger out of their hotel room without anybody getting hurt.
相反，这完全符合所谓胜利的范畴——对于一个宗教大家庭中的 14 岁女孩来说，当她在没有任何人受伤的情况下将那个陌生人带出酒店房间时，这是一场坚实的胜利。
And Elna says she would have liked that win.
埃尔娜说她会喜欢这场胜利。
When you're trapped inside a room with an unpredictable person, really, all you've got is your wits, and your ability to read the situation, and your judgment at guessing what will work.
当你被困在一个房间里，周围都是一个不可预测的人时，实际上，你所拥有的只是你的智慧，你解读情况的能力，以及你猜测什么会起作用的判断力。
Nice to show everybody that even a kid can make the right call sometimes, if they pay attention closely enough.
很高兴向大家展示，如果他们足够集中注意力，即使是孩子有时也可以做出正确的决定。
Elna Baker, one of the producers of our show, talking to Ira Glass.
我们节目的制作人之一埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 正在与艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 交谈。
Act three-- You Can't Go Your Own Way.
第三幕——你不能走自己的路。
In her memoir, In the Dream House, Carmen Maria Machado wrote this chapter that's set up like a choose your own adventure story, which I just thought was so smart when I read it.
卡门·玛丽亚·马查多（Carmen Maria Machado）在她的回忆录《梦之屋》（In the Dream House）中写了这一章，它的设置就像一个选择你自己的冒险故事，当我读到它时，我觉得它非常聪明。
In it, she imagines different choices she could have made with a partner that she's in a bad relationship with-- an abusive relationship.
在
And one of the things it captures is just the mental energy that somebody in that situation can end up putting into trying to figure out what they should do or not do to avoid setting off their partner.
它捕捉到的一件事就是，处于这种情况下的人最终可能会投入精力来试图弄清楚他们应该做什么或不做什么，以避免激怒他们的伴侣。
A heads up that this excerpt includes a scene with sexual content.
请注意，此摘录包含包含性内容的场景。
It's read for us by actor Zoe Winters.
演员佐伊·温特斯为我们朗读。
Page one.
第一页。
You wake up, and the air is milky and bright.
你醒来，空气是乳白色的，明亮的。
The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes.
尽管有盒子、衣服和盘子，房间里仍洋溢着一种兴奋的满足感。
You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
你心想，这是你可以习惯的早晨。
When you turn over, she is staring at you.
当你翻身时，她正盯着你。
The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach.
光的明亮纯真在你的胃里凝结。
You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
你不记得曾经这么快地从清醒到害怕。
You were moving all night, she says.
你整晚都在搬家，她说。
Your arms and elbows touched me.
你的手臂和肘部触碰了我。
You kept me awake.
你让我保持清醒。
If you apologize profusely, go to page two.
如果您深表歉意，请转到第二页。
If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three.
如果你告诉她下次你睡梦中你的肘部碰到她时叫醒你，请转到第三页。
If you tell her to calm down, go to page five.
如果你让她冷静下来，请翻到第五页。
I choose page two.
我选择第二页。
Page two-- I'm so sorry, you tell her.
第二页——我很抱歉，你告诉她。
I really didn't mean to.
我真的不是故意的。
I just move my arms around a lot in my sleep.
我只是在睡觉时频繁地移动手臂。
You try to be light about it.
你尽量保持轻松的态度。
Did you know my dad does the same thing?
你知道我爸爸也做同样的事吗？
The sleeping damsel swoon.
熟睡的少女昏倒了。
So weird.
太奇怪了。
I must have--
我必须——
Are you really sorry?
你真的很抱歉吗？
She says.
她说。
I don't think you are.
我不认为你是。
I am, you say.
我是，你说。
You want the first impression of the morning to return to you-- its freshness, its light.
您希望恢复早晨的第一印象——它的清新、它的轻松。
I really am.
我确实是。
Prove it.
证明一下。
How?
如何？
Stop doing it.
别再这样做了。
I told you, I can't.
我告诉过你，我不能。
Fuck you, she says, and gets out of bed.
操你妈的，她说，然后起身。
You follow her all the way to the kitchen.
你跟着她一路来到厨房。
Go to page seven.
转到第七页。
Page seven-- breakfast.
第七页——早餐。
You scramble some eggs, make some toast.
你炒一些鸡蛋，做一些吐司。
She eats mechanically and leaves the plate on the table.
她机械地吃着，然后把盘子留在桌子上。
Clean that up, she says, as she goes to the bedroom to get dressed.
清理干净，她一边说，一边去卧室穿衣服。
If you stare mutely at the dirty plate, and all you can think about is Clara Barton, the feminist icon of your youth, who had to teach herself how to be a nurse, and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn, and you remember being so angry, and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper, and your mom said yes, and your dad said no, and you, for the first time, had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was, go to page 10.
如果你默默地盯着肮脏的盘子，你能想到的只是克拉拉·巴顿，你年轻时的女权主义偶像，她必须自学如何成为一名护士，并忍受着男人每次都告诉她该做什么的虐待，你还记得自己如此愤怒，跑向你的父母，问他们是否仍然告诉女人什么是正确或正确的，你妈妈说是，你爸爸说不，而你第一次意识到这个世界是多么复杂和可怕是，请转到第 10 页。
If you do as you are told, go to page eight.
如果您按照指示进行操作，请转到第八页。
If you tell her to do it herself, go to page five.
如果您让她自己做，请转到第五页。
Page five-- are you kidding?
第五页——你在开玩笑吗？
You'd never do this.
你永远不会这样做。
Don't try to convince any of these people that you'd stand up for yourself for one second.
不要试图让这些人相信你会为自己辩护一秒钟。
Get out of here.
离开这里。
Go to the next chapter.
转到下一章。
You're out.
你出去了。
Wait, no, let's try that again.
等等，不，让我们再试一次。
I go to page eight.
我翻到第八页。
Page eight-- as you're washing the dishes, you think to yourself, maybe I should put a tack on my forehead.
第八页——当你洗碗的时候，你心里想，也许我应该在额头上放一根大头钉。
Maybe I should be a better person.
也许我应该成为一个更好的人。
Go to page one.
转到第一页。
Page one-- you wake up, and the air is milky and bright.
第一页——你醒来，空气是乳白色的，明亮的。
The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes.
尽管有盒子、衣服和盘子，房间里仍洋溢着一种兴奋的满足感。
You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
你心想，这是你可以习惯的早晨。
When you turn over, she is staring at you.
当你翻身时，她正盯着你。
The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach.
光的明亮纯真在你的胃里凝结。
You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
你不记得曾经这么快地从清醒到害怕。
You were moving all night, she says.
你整晚都在搬家，她说。
Your arms and elbows touched me.
你的手臂和肘部触碰了我。
You kept me awake.
你让我保持清醒。
If you apologize profusely, go to page two.
如果您深表歉意，请转到第二页。
If you tell her to calm down, go to page five.
如果你让她冷静下来，请翻到第五页。
If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three.
如果你告诉她下次你睡梦中你的肘部碰到她时叫醒你，请转到第三页。
I go to page three.
我翻到第三页。
Page three-- baby, if this ever happens in the future, you can always wake me up, and I'll go to the couch, I promise.
第三页——宝贝，如果将来发生这种情况，你可以随时叫醒我，我会去沙发上，我保证。
I really don't mean to do it.
我真的不想这么做。
I don't have any memory of it.
我对此没有任何记忆。
I can't control how I move in my sleep.
我无法控制自己在睡眠中的移动方式。
You are such a fucking cunt, she says.
你真是个混蛋，她说。
You never take responsibility for anything.
你从不为任何事情承担责任。
All you have to do is wake me up, you say, a kind of incoherent desperation zipping through your skull.
你所要做的就是叫醒我，你说，一种语无伦次的绝望在你的头骨中掠过。
That's it.
就是这样。
Wake me up and tell me to move or sleep on the couch, and I will do it.
叫醒我并告诉我要动一下还是睡在沙发上，我就会这么做。
I swear to you.
我向你发誓。
Fuck you, she says, and gets out of bed.
操你妈的，她说，然后起身。
You follow her to the kitchen.
你跟着她到厨房。
Go to page seven.
转到第七页。
Page seven-- breakfast.
第七页——早餐。
You scramble some eggs, make some toast.
你炒一些鸡蛋，做一些吐司。
She eats mechanically and leaves the plate on the table.
她机械地吃着，然后把盘子留在桌子上。
Clean that up, she says, as she goes to the bedroom to get dressed.
清理干净，她一边说，一边去卧室穿衣服。
If you do as you are told, go to page eight.
如果您按照指示进行操作，请转到第八页。
If you tell her to do it herself, go to page five.
如果您让她自己做，请转到第五页。
If you stare mutely at the dirty plate, and all you can think about is Clara Barton, the feminist icon of your youth, who had to teach herself how to be a nurse, and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn, and you remember being so angry, and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper, and your mom said yes, and your dad said no, and you, for the first time, had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was, go to page 10.
如果你默默地盯着肮脏的盘子，你能想到的只是克拉拉·巴顿，你年轻时的女权主义偶像，她必须自学如何成为一名护士，并忍受着男人每次都告诉她该做什么的虐待，你还记得自己如此愤怒，跑向你的父母，问他们是否仍然告诉女人什么是正确或正确的，你妈妈说是，你爸爸说不，而你第一次意识到这个世界是多么复杂和可怕是，请转到第 10 页。
Page 10-- that night, she [MUTED] you as you lie there mutely, praying for it to be over, praying she won't notice you're gone.
第 10 页——那天晚上，当你静静地躺在那里时，她[静音]你，祈祷一切结束，祈祷她不会注意到你走了。
You have voided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit, reflexive as a sigh.
到目前为止，你已经排空你的身体很多次了，这已经成为习惯的力量，反射性地叹息。
It reminds you of your first boyfriend, who [MUTED] you while watching porn, how he rutted and rutted, and then every so often, lifted the remote to rewind something you couldn't see.
它让你想起你的第一个男朋友，他在看色情片时将你静音，他如何发脾气，然后时不时地举起遥控器倒带一些你看不到的东西。
Once, you turned your head over the lip of the bed and saw a tangle of upside-down limbs, and your brain couldn't make sense of them.
有一次，你把头转过床沿，看到一堆倒置的肢体，但你的大脑无法理解它们。
You never looked again.
你再也没有看过。
You would just lie there silently, watching his face move over you.
你就静静地躺在那里，看着他的脸在你身上移动。
It was like being unfolded beneath the yawn of the planetarium as a kid-- the sped-up rotation of the Earth, the movement of the stars, the constellations melting into and out of being.
这就像小时候在天文馆的哈欠下展开——地球的加速旋转、恒星的运动、星座的融化和消失。
You shudder and moan with precision.
你颤抖着，精确地呻吟着。
She turns off the lights.
她关掉灯。
You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you, or you leave it.
你注视着黑暗，直到黑暗离开你，或者你离开它。
To sleep, go to page 14.
要睡觉，请转到第 14 页。
To dream about the present, go to page 13.
要梦想现在，请转到第 13 页。
To dream about the future, go to page 12.
要梦想未来，请转至第 12 页。
To dream about the past, go to page 11.
要梦见过去，请转到第 11 页。
I want to dream about the past.
我想梦见过去的事。
I choose page 11.
我选择第11页。
Page 11-- the first time it happened.
第11页——第一次发生。
The first time she yelled at you so much you were crying within 30 seconds from waking-- a record.
第一次她对你大喊大叫，你醒来后 30 秒内就哭了——创纪录了。
She said, the first 10 minutes of the day, I'm not responsible for anything I say.
她说，一天的前10分钟，我不对我说的任何话负责。
This struck you as poetic.
这让你觉得很有诗意。
You even wrote it down, sure you would find a place for it in a book, maybe.
你甚至把它写下来，也许你会在一本书里找到它的位置。
Go to page 14.
转到第 14 页。
Page 9-- you shouldn't be on this page.
第 9 页——您不应该出现在该页上。
There's no way to get here from the choices given to you.
没有办法从给你的选择中到达这里。
Do you think that, by flipping through this chapter linearly, you'd find some kind of relief?
你认为，通过线性地翻阅这一章，你会找到某种解脱吗？
Don't you get it?
你不明白吗？
All of this shit already happened.
这一切都已经发生了。
And you can't make it not happen, no matter what you do.
无论你做什么，你都无法阻止它发生。
Do you want a picture of a fawn?
你想要一张小鹿的照片吗？
Will that help?
这会有帮助吗？
OK, here's a fawn.
好的，这是一只小鹿。
She is small, and dappled, and loose-legged.
她身材娇小，长着斑驳的双腿。
She hears a sound, freezes, and then bolts.
她听到一声声音，愣住了，然后逃跑了。
She knows what to do.
她知道该怎么做。
She knows there's somewhere safer she can be.
她知道她可以去更安全的地方。
Go to page 10.
转到第 10 页。
I don't want to go to page 10.
我不想翻到第10页。
Page 6-- you shouldn't be on this page.
第 6 页——您不应该出现在该页上。
There's no way to get here from the choices given to you.
没有办法从给你的选择中到达这里。
You flipped here because you got sick of the cycle.
你之所以跳到这里是因为你厌倦了这个循环。
You wanted to get out.
你想出去。
You're smarter than me.
你比我聪明。
Go to page 10.
转到第 10 页。
Fine.
美好的。
I go to page 10.
我翻到第 10 页。
Page 10-- that night, she fucks you as you lie there mutely, praying for it to be over, praying she won't notice you're gone.
第10页——那天晚上，当你静静地躺在那里时，她操着你，祈祷这一切能够结束，祈祷她不会注意到你走了。
You have voided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit, reflexive as a sigh.
到目前为止，你已经排空你的身体很多次了，这已经成为习惯的力量，反射性地叹息。
It reminds you of your first-- the sped-up rotation of the Earth, the movement of the stars, the constellations melting into and out of being.
它让你想起你的第一次——地球的加速旋转、恒星的运动、星座的融化和消失。
You shudder and moan with precision.
你颤抖着，精确地呻吟着。
She turns off the lights.
她关掉灯。
You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you, or you leave it.
你注视着黑暗，直到黑暗离开你，或者你离开它。
To sleep, go to page 14.
要睡觉，请转到第 14 页。
To dream about the past, go to page 11.
要梦见过去，请转到第 11 页。
To dream about the present, go to page 13.
要梦想现在，请转到第 13 页。
Page 13-- you shouldn't be here, but it's OK.
第 13 页——你不应该在这里，但没关系。
It's a dream.
这是一个梦。
She can't find you here.
她在这里找不到你。
In a minute, you're going to wake up, and everything is going to seem like it's the same, but it's not.
一分钟后，你就会醒来，一切看起来都一样，但事实并非如此。
There's a way out.
有一条出路。
Are you listening to me?
你在听我说话吗？
You can't forget when you wake up.
当你醒来时你无法忘记。
You can't go to page 14.
您无法转到第 14 页。
I want to dream about the future.
我想要梦想未来。
I go to page 12.
我翻到第 12 页。
Page 12-- it's going to be all right.
第12页——一切都会好起来的。
One day, your wife will gently adjust your arm if it touches her face at night, soothingly straightening it while kissing you.
有一天，如果你的手臂在晚上碰到她的脸，你的妻子会轻轻地调整你的手臂，在亲吻你时安抚地伸直它。
Sometimes, you will wake up just enough to notice.
有时，您醒来时会注意到。
Other times, she'll only tell you in the morning.
其他时候，她只会在早上告诉你。
It's the kind of morning you could get used to.
这是你可以习惯的早晨。
Go to page 14.
转到第 14 页。
Page 14-- you wake up, and the air is milky and bright.
第14页——你醒来，空气是乳白色的，明亮的。
The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes.
尽管有盒子、衣服和盘子，房间里仍洋溢着一种兴奋的满足感。
You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
你心想，这是你可以习惯的早晨。
When you turn over, she is staring at you.
当你翻身时，她正盯着你。
The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach.
光的明亮纯真在你的胃里凝结。
You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
你不记得曾经这么快地从清醒到害怕。
You were moving all night, she says.
你整晚都在搬家，她说。
Your arms and elbows touched me.
你的手臂和肘部触碰了我。
You kept me awake.
你让我保持清醒。
If you apologize profusely, go to page two.
如果您深表歉意，请转到第二页。
If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three.
如果你告诉她下次你睡梦中你的肘部碰到她时叫醒你，请转到第三页。
If you toss back the blankets from your body and hit the floor with both feet, and tear through the house like it's Pamplona, and when you get to the driveway, your car keys are already in your hand, and you drive away with a theatrical squeal of the tires, never to return again, go to page 15.
如果你把身上的毯子掀开，双脚踩在地板上，像潘普洛纳一样撕裂房子，当你到达车道时，你的车钥匙已经在你手里，你带着轮胎戏剧性的尖叫声开走了，再也没有回来，请转到第15页。
Page 15-- that's not how it happened, but OK, we can pretend.
第 15 页——事情并非如此，但是好吧，我们可以假装。
I'll give it to you, just this once.
我就给你，就这一次。
Turn to page 16.
翻到第16页。
Page 16-- an end.
第16页——结束。
In the pit of it, you fantasize about dying-- tripping on a sidewalk, and stumbling into the path of an oncoming car, a gas leak silently offing you in your sleep, a machete-wielding madman on public transit, falling down the stairs, but drunk, so you flop, limb over limb, like a marionette, and feel no pain-- anything to make it stop.
在它的深渊中，你幻想着死亡——在人行道上绊倒，绊倒迎面驶来的汽车的道路，在睡梦中无声无息地发生煤气泄漏，公共交通上一个挥舞着砍刀的疯子，从楼梯上摔下来，但喝醉了，所以你像木偶一样倒下，四肢相连，感觉不到疼痛——任何能让它停下来的东西。
You have forgotten that leaving is an option.
你忘记了离开也是一种选择。
Zoe Winters reading a chapter from Carmen Maria Machado's memoir, In the Dream House.
佐伊·温特斯 (Zoe Winters) 正在阅读卡门·玛丽亚·马查多 (Carmen Maria Machado) 的回忆录《梦之屋》中的一章。
Carmen has a comic series out now called The Low, Low Woods, from DC Comics.
DC 漫画公司现在推出了《卡门》漫画系列，名为《The Low, Low Woods》。
You can see Zoe Winters in season three of HBO'S Succession, which is out in October.
您可以在 HBO 的《继承之战》第三季中看到佐伊·温特斯 (Zoe Winters)，该剧将于 10 月上映。
Act four-- Blue Kid on the Block.
第四幕——街区里的蓝孩子。
This last story is about what happens after you get out-- in this particular case, when you get out of Rochester, New York.
最后一个故事是关于你离开后会发生什么——在这个特殊的例子中，当你离开纽约州罗切斯特时。
The kid in this story, who we're going to call Leo-- it's not his real name-- his family had moved to an entirely different state.
这个故事中的孩子，我们称之为利奥（Leo）——这不是他的真名——他的家人已经搬到了一个完全不同的州。
And he was not happy about it.
他对此并不满意。
At the time, Leo was just starting seventh grade.
当时，利奥刚刚开始七年级。
He was having a harder time finding his place in middle school than other middle school kids, because, you know, he was new to town, but also because Leo still loved Rochester.
他比其他中学生更难在中学找到自己的位置，因为，你知道，他是新来的，但也因为利奥仍然爱罗切斯特。
He loved his school there.
他喜欢他在那里的学校。
He loved his friends.
他爱他的朋友。
Suddenly, everything about his life was different, and according to Leo, much worse.
突然之间，他生活中的一切都变得不同了，而且根据利奥的说法，更糟了。
The signature on his Gmail account now read, Rochester is much better, in big, red letters.
他的 Gmail 帐户上的签名现在用红色大字写着“罗切斯特好多了”。
Sarah Koenig knows Leo and his parents.
莎拉·柯尼格认识利奥和他的父母。
She visited them at home to see how Leo is doing.
她拜访了他们的家，了解利奥的近况。
This is how much Leo does not want to be here-- when I got to his house, he was on the sofa with a laptop, investigating Greyhound bus schedules.
利奥就是这么不想待在这里——当我到他家时，他正坐在沙发上，拿着笔记本电脑，调查灰狗巴士的时刻表。
His mother was going to drive him and his sister back to Rochester for the Columbus Day weekend, but not until Saturday morning.
他的母亲原本打算开车送他和他的妹妹回罗切斯特过哥伦布日周末，但要等到周六早上。
And Leo wanted to get there Friday for more time with his friends.
利奥想周五到达那里，以便有更多时间与朋友们在一起。
A multi-stage negotiation followed with his dad.
随后与他的父亲进行了多阶段谈判。
For one thing, a bus ticket costs money.
一方面，公交车票要花钱。
That's not the-- that's not a problem.
这不是问题。
[?
[？
I have that money-- ?]
我有那个钱——？]
Not for you.
不适合你。
No, that wasn't a problem for you.
不，这对你来说不是问题。
No, but-- Leo's Dad There isn't one, right?
没有，但是—— Leo的爸爸 没有吧？
There isn't one-- not at 6:15 in the morning.
早上 6 点 15 分没有。
And you won't let me miss school on Friday.
而且你不会让我错过周五的学校。
The bus takes eight hours.
巴士需要八个小时。
Even if you left at noon, you'd be at-- are gonna do the math?
即使你中午离开，你也会——要做算术吗？
That's excellent.
那太好了。
Never mind that the bus takes twice as long as driving, and never mind that Leo would be alone, and have to change buses, and that his parents had no intention of letting him go through with this plan.
别介意坐公交车比开车要花两倍的时间，别介意利奥会孤身一人，不得不换乘公交车，也别介意他的父母无意让他完成这个计划。
But it's the kind of negotiation you indulge when your kid is miserable.
但这就是当你的孩子痛苦时你会进行的那种谈判。
And Leo is miserable.
而狮子座则很悲惨。
He told me right away he was, and that he had been from the moment he got here in August.
他立刻告诉我他是，而且从他八月份来到这里的那一刻起他就一直是。
Is this the first time you've-- in your life where you felt like you've been sad about something for this long?
这是你一生中第一次因为某件事而感到悲伤这么久吗？
I think so, except for maybe when my other cat died-- my old cat.
我想是的，除了我的另一只猫——我的老猫死了。
Mhm.
嗯。
I've never had long periods of sad until now.
直到现在我还没有经历过长时间的悲伤。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know anyone here, really.
我真的不认识这里的任何人。
And I think it's just everything in general that's overwhelming.
我认为这一切都是压倒性的。
Back in Rochester, Leo had known all his best friends since kindergarten or before.
回到罗切斯特，利奥从幼儿园或以前就认识了他所有最好的朋友。
They played together at school, after school, on weekends.
他们在学校、放学后、周末都一起玩耍。
Everybody knew everybody.
每个人都认识每个人。
Everything was comfortable.
一切都很舒服。
And as a sixth grader in his old school, he and his friends were at the top of the heap.
作为他原来学校的六年级学生，他和他的朋友们都名列前茅。
They wore green sashes in the morning, and got to be door monitors for the younger kids coming into the building.
他们早上戴着绿色腰带，充当门禁监视器，监视进入大楼的年幼的孩子。
So imagine now, Leo takes a school bus for the first time to his new school, a sprawling one-story building full of sixth, seventh, and eighth graders.
现在想象一下，利奥第一次乘坐校车去他的新学校，这是一栋庞大的单层建筑，里面挤满了六年级、七年级和八年级的学生。
Leo's small for his age, only a hair taller than his sister, who's only nine years old.
就他的年龄而言，利奥个子矮小，只比他只有九岁的妹妹高一根头发。
On day one, he knows exactly no one.
第一天，他根本不认识任何人。
It was much louder than my old school, much louder.
比我以前的学校吵多了，吵多了。
People talking, people closing and opening lockers.
人们说话，人们关闭和打开储物柜。
People walking-- it was just noise.
人们走路——只是噪音。
Just older kids, more kids, because my old school was tiny.
只是年龄较大的孩子，更多的孩子，因为我以前的学校很小。
Leo is between.
狮子座介于两者之间。
He's old enough to decipher Greyhound bus schedules, but not old enough to actually travel on one by himself, and old enough to know that, if he's going to survive in middle school, he has to make friends, but that making those friends stands to be significantly more complicated than it was back in Rochester.
他已经足够大了，可以看懂灰狗巴士的时刻表，但还没有大到可以自己单独乘坐灰狗巴士出行，而且他也知道，如果他想在中学生存下来，就必须交朋友，但结交这些朋友比在罗切斯特时要复杂得多。
Leo's sister, Auden, is in fourth grade.
利奥的妹妹奥登正在上四年级。
He says she's not having as hard a time of it.
他说她的日子没那么难受。
She hasn't been alive as long.
她已经活了那么久了。
She hasn't made as deep connections.
她还没有建立如此深厚的联系。
And she's already met some-- a friend in her school.
她已经认识了一些人——她学校里的一个朋友。
I think it's easier to make friends in elementary school than in middle school.
我认为小学比中学更容易交朋友。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Why?
为什么？
Leo Because people care less about who you are.
狮子座 因为人们不太关心你是谁。
What do you mean by that?
你这是什么意思？
Leo The older you get, the more you judge people on their looks, their background, their-- how they act, like, what cool is for kids.
狮子座 随着年龄的增长，你会更多地根据人们的外表、背景、行为方式来评判他们，比如孩子们认为什么才是酷。
Because in kindergarten, you could just walk up to someone and say, do you want to be my friend?
因为在幼儿园，你可以走到某人面前说，你想成为我的朋友吗？
And they would-- then, that would be it.
他们会——那么，就这样了。
But it's harder.
但这更难。
I just think people are more wary before they open up.
我只是认为人们在敞开心扉之前会更加谨慎。
They like-- I don't know, in first grade, if I met someone, I wouldn't really care who they were.
他们喜欢——我不知道，在一年级时，如果我遇到某人，我不会真正关心他们是谁。
I would just care if they were nice or not.
我只关心他们好不好。
The day I interviewed him, Leo had had a couple of breakthroughs.
在我采访 Leo 的那天，他取得了一些突破。
He emailed his parents during the school day to tell them the first piece of good news they'd had from him.
他在上学期间给父母发了电子邮件，告诉他们从他那里得到的第一个好消息。
Until that day, the emails had mostly been three desperate words-- I feel awful.
直到那天之前，这些电子邮件大多都是三个绝望的词——我感觉很糟糕。
Without even a period at the end to make the feeling finite, it was an endless awful.
甚至没有最后一个句点来让这种感觉变得有限，这是一种无尽的可怕。
But on this Thursday, he wrote to tell them the mashed potatoes they serve in the cafeteria were great, followed by four exclamation points.
但在这个星期四，他写信告诉他们，他们食堂提供的土豆泥很棒，后面还加上了四个感叹号。
Second-- and this was the big news-- he asked another kid if he wanted to come over.
其次——这是个大新闻——他问另一个孩子是否愿意过来。
Leo told me he thought about it first for a few days, then finally emailed the boy, whose name is Devin, another seventh grader.
利奥告诉我，他先考虑了几天，最后给这个男孩发了电子邮件，他的名字叫德文，是另一位七年级学生。
But now, Leo didn't want to call Devin's house to finalize a plan.
但现在，利奥不想给德文家里打电话敲定计划。
He dreaded the awkwardness of the phone.
他害怕电话的尴尬。
So his dad called Devin's parents, introduced himself as Leo's father.
于是他的爸爸给德文的父母打电话，介绍自己是利奥的父亲。
--dad.
- 爸爸。
He goes to school with your son, Evan.
他和你的儿子埃文一起上学。
And we were-- Devin-- I'm so sorry, Devin.
我们——德文——我很抱歉，德文。
I'm getting the evil look from my son.
我从我儿子那里看到了邪恶的眼神。
I apologize.
我道歉。
But we're hoping Devin can come over on Sunday.
但我们希望德文能在周日过来。
Thanks.
谢谢。
I panicked.
我惊慌失措。
Dad, you fool!
爸爸，你这个傻瓜！
[LAUGHS] Sarah Koenig How'd that go?
[笑] Sarah Koenig 怎么样？
[LAUGHTER] Sarah Koenig I thought Leo might be upset about it, maybe get sulky.
[笑声] Sarah Koenig 我想 Leo 可能会对此感到不安，也许会生气。
But here he was, cracking up, joking with his dad.
但他却在这里，开怀大笑，和他的父亲开玩笑。
It was such a relief to hear him laugh after he'd been so solemn in our interview.
在我们的采访中他如此严肃之后，听到他笑了，真是让人松了口气。
And I thought, this is all going to be OK.
我想，一切都会好起来的。
He's going to snap out of it.
他会振作起来。
He's almost there.
他快到了。
An afternoon with Devin is going to do the trick.
和德文一起度过一个下午就会有效果。
Then, Sunday came.
然后，周日到了。
I can tell your-- you could tell your wolf to attack.
我可以告诉你——你可以告诉你的狼攻击。
OK, I'm going to tell my wolf to attack, then.
好吧，那我要告诉我的狼攻击了。
Leo taught Devin how to play Dungeons and Dragons.
里奥教德文如何玩龙与地下城。
Yay!
耶！
Go, wolfie!
走吧，小狼！
Go, wolfie!
走吧，小狼！
Leo Mm-hmm.
里奥 嗯嗯。
On the drive home, Leo and Devin talk nonstop-- a gentle, rat-a-tat one-upmanship emanating from deep inside a computer game.
在开车回家的路上，利奥和德文不停地交谈——一种从电脑游戏深处散发出来的温和的、势均力敌的优势。
Warlocks are fun.
术士很好玩。
Can you summon your imp yet?
你能召唤你的小鬼了吗？
Yeah, you start with imp.
是的，你从小鬼开始。
Devin Oh, right.
德文 哦，对了。
I like-- I had a goblin shaman.
我喜欢——我有一个妖精萨满。
I have a night elf druid.
我有一个暗夜精灵德鲁伊。
And I can turn into a cat at level eight, which is nice.
而且我八级就可以变成猫了，这也太好了。
By the time they drop Devin off, they were giggling.
当他们送德文下车时，他们都咯咯笑起来。
--yeah, you start with-- Devin That's funny.
——是的，你从——德文开始，这很有趣。
Our cat responds to whatever you call him.
无论你叫它什么，我们的猫都会做出反应。
[?
[？
And he ?] [?
而他呢？] [？
said, ?] his name is Pippen, but we can call him Football, and he'll respond.
说，？]他的名字是皮蓬，但我们可以叫他“足球”，他会回应的。
Thank you for inviting me.
谢谢你邀请我。
Leo See you tomorrow.
狮子座明天见。
See you.
再见。
Sarah Koenig So a perfect day, right?
莎拉·柯尼格 这是完美的一天，对吧？
Leo's parents were relieved, hopeful.
利奥的父母松了口气，满怀希望。
But no.
但没有。
It's Wednesday.
今天是星期三。
You had your friend over on Sunday.
周日你邀请你的朋友过来。
How'd it go?
怎么样？
Has it changed anything about being here?
来到这里有什么改变吗？
A little bit.
一点点。
I don't think very much.
我想的不多。
But a little bit, yeah.
但有一点，是的。
That I know someone at school.
我在学校认识一个人。
It helps.
它有帮助。
Not all that much, but sort of, yeah.
不是那么多，但有点，是的。
And this is when I realized I'd underestimated the depth of Leo's gloom-- that he greets every morning of every school day with dread, and not because he's being bullied, or anyone's being mean to him.
就在这时，我意识到我低估了利奥忧郁的深度——他在每个上学日的每个早晨都带着恐惧迎接，并不是因为他被欺负了，或者有人对他刻薄。
I feel sick, because I know that I have the whole day ahead of me, and then I have the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day ahead of me.
我感到恶心，因为我知道我还有一整天的时间，然后还有第二天、后天、后天、后天、后天。
No, not really.
不，不是真的。
It usually increases to a climax around lunchtime.
通常在午餐时间左右达到高潮。
And then I-- actually, I've been throwing up recently.
然后我——实际上，我最近一直在呕吐。
And then it just stays at that level of sickness until I get home.
然后它就一直保持这种程度的疾病，直到我回家。
You're kidding me.
你在开玩笑吧。
You're throwing up at school?
你在学校呕吐吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Sarah Koenig Aw, that's awful.
莎拉·科尼格 噢，太糟糕了。
In the bathroom, or where?
在浴室里，还是在哪里？
Yeah, in the bathroom.
是的，在浴室里。
Usually at lunch, I feel really bad.
通常在午餐时，我感觉很糟糕。
And then I go to the bathroom, and I throw up.
然后我去洗手间，吐了。
Has that happened this week?
这周发生过这种事吗？
Leo Today, it did.
今天的狮子座，确实如此。
Do you tell your parents like, I don't want to go, I don't want to go?
你会告诉你的父母，我不想去，我不想去吗？
Or do you just-- you know you have to, so you don't say anything?
或者你只是——你知道你必须这样做，所以你什么也没说？
No, I throw a screaming fit.
不，我尖叫起来。
Sarah Koenig Every morning?
莎拉·柯尼格 每天早上？
What was different about this morning?
今天早上有什么不同？
How come you didn't today?
今天怎么没来呢？
I felt resigned.
我感到辞职了。
I mean, I knew that I would have to go anyway, so I gave up.
我的意思是，我知道无论如何我都必须去，所以我放弃了。
Here's the curse of being almost 13-- old enough to understand his life will supposedly get better with time, but not old enough to really believe he's going to feel any differently than he does right this minute.
这就是快13岁的诅咒了——年纪大到足以理解他的生活会随着时间的推移而变得更好，但还没有大到真正相信他会感受到与此时此刻不同的感觉。
Since making friends with Devin, Leo is one step toward being the kid he wants to be-- someone with pals, someone who's comfortable again.
自从与德文成为朋友后，利奥朝着成为他想成为的孩子迈出了一步——一个有朋友的人，一个再次感到舒适的人。
But he says right now, he's just worried he's going to be throwing up all year.
但他说现在他只是担心自己会呕吐一整年。
Sarah Koenig-- she's the host of Serial.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）——她是《连续剧》的主持人。
In the years since this story first ran, Leo has made many friends.
自从这个故事第一次发表以来，利奥结识了很多朋友。
They've become immersed in the world of theater, and has finally forgiven their parents for the move.
他们沉浸在戏剧的世界中，并最终原谅了父母的举动。
Leo did return to New York, though.
不过，利奥确实回到了纽约。
They graduated from NYU this past spring.
他们去年春天从纽约大学毕业。
[MUSIC - "WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE" BY THE ANIMALS]
[音乐 - 动物们的“我们必须离开这个地方”]
(SINGING) We gotta get out of this place if it's the last thing we ever do.
（唱歌）如果这是我们做的最后一件事，我们就得离开这个地方。
We gotta get out of this place.
我们得离开这个地方。
'Cause girl, there's a better life for me and you.
因为女孩，我和你都有更好的生活。
Today's program was produced by Diane Wu and Lina Misitzis.
今天的节目由 Diane Wu 和 Lina Misitzis 制作。
The people who put the show together today include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Ben Calhoun, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Seth Lind, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Chloee Weiner.
今天的节目制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Ben Calhoun、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Aviva DeKornfeld、Seth Lind、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Nancy Updike 和 Chloee Weiner。
Our managing editor-- Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑——莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Harrison Nesbit, Will Yurman, Hilary Appleman, and Maximo Berryman-Chace.
今天特别感谢 Harrison Nesbit、Will Yurman、Hilary Appleman 和 Maximo Berryman-Chace。
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 -- thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 700 多集档案。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks to our boss, Ira Glass.
感谢我们的老板艾拉·格拉斯。
You know, he says he's on vacation, but he keeps coming into the studio, making these tiny little edits to our stories.
你知道，他说他在度假，但他不断地进入工作室，对我们的故事进行一些微小的编辑。
I'm really sorry.
我真的很抱歉。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry I'm here.
抱歉我在这里。
I'm sorry I'm doing this.
很抱歉我正在这样做。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
We'll be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
(SINGING) Girl, there's a better life for me and you.
（唱）女孩，我和你的生活会更好。
Somewhere, baby.
在某个地方，宝贝。
Somehow, I know it, baby.
不知何故，我知道，宝贝。
We got to get out of this place if it's the last thing we ever do.
如果这是我们做的最后一件事，我们就必须离开这个地方。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。