742: The Thing I'm Getting Over - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #742 | July 23, 2021 742: The Thing I'm Getting Over Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 742 集 | 2021 年 7 月 23 日 742：我正在克服的事情 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass There's not much to the story of how Chase got injured.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 关于蔡斯如何受伤的故事并没有太多。
He was invited to a New Year's party in Philadelphia.
他受邀参加费城的新年聚会。
He flies in, goes to the party, goes back to an apartment where he's staying with three other people, gets up around 7:00 in the morning.
他乘飞机抵达，参加聚会，回到与另外三个人住在一起的公寓，早上 7:00 左右起床。
Lack of sleep, still hungover, maybe a little drunk from the night before.
睡眠不足，宿醉未醒，也许是前一天晚上喝醉了。
And I went to the bathroom, and I tripped.
我去了洗手间，结果绊倒了。
And next thing I know, I'm on the ground.
接下来我知道，我已经倒在地上了。
All three of them are around me.
他们三个都在我身边。
They're freaking out.
他们吓坏了。
He's concussed, doesn't know where he is or what's happening.
他脑震荡，不知道自己在哪里，也不知道发生了什么事。
They're like, get up.
他们就像，站起来。
And I was so confused.
我很困惑。
I was like, OK, I'm trying.
我当时想，好吧，我正在努力。
And I was just like face down on the ground.
我就像脸朝下趴在地上一样。
My arm was like this, and I was pushing.
我的手臂就是这样，我在推。
And they were shaking-- the moment I realized I was paralyzed was they were shaking my leg.
他们在摇晃——当我意识到我瘫痪的那一刻，他们在摇晃我的腿。
And I kind of knew something was happening to my leg.
我有点知道我的腿出了什么问题。
I was like, are you touching me?
我当时想，你在碰我吗？
And they're like, yeah, we're shaking your leg.
他们就像，是的，我们正在摇你的腿。
You don't feel that?
你不觉得吗？
And I was like, no.
我当时想，不。
At the hospital, he learns that there's trauma and internal bleeding in his spinal cord around the C4 vertebra.
在医院，他得知 C4 椎骨周围的脊髓有外伤和内出血。
They tell him he may never walk again.
他们告诉他，他可能再也不能走路了。
He can't stand, or control his arms, or use his hands.
他无法站立，无法控制手臂，也无法使用双手。
It's not clear he ever will.
目前还不清楚他是否会这么做。
Somebody has to feed him.
总得有人喂他。
He's all alone, no visitors.
他孤身一人，没有访客。
He's basically immobile in front of a television that's set to Comedy Central, which those particular weeks, he says, was reruns of The Office most of the day.
他在设置为喜剧中心的电视前基本上一动不动，他说，那几周的大部分时间都是《办公室》的重播。
He said he watched from season one all the way up through the finale of season nine, and then season one began again.
他说他从第一季一直看到第九季的结局，然后第一季又开始了。
And one day early in the ICU, he's in a group chat with his buddies-- which means, since he can't pick up his phone, a nurse reads to him what they are saying, and then he dictates what to write back.
早在重症监护室的一天，他正在和他的朋友们进行群聊——这意味着，由于他无法拿起手机，一名护士会向他朗读他们在说什么，然后他口述要写回什么。
And they're trying to cheer him up.
他们正在努力让他振作起来。
And they come up with a project for him, a goal, a heroic goal, an unusual goal, a goal that is the reason that I wanted to talk to Chase, this goal that really started as a joke.
他们为他提出了一个项目，一个目标，一个英雄的目标，一个不寻常的目标，这个目标就是我想和蔡斯交谈的原因，这个目标最初只是一个笑话。
My one friend Julian said, get better.
我的一位朋友朱利安说，要好起来。
Dan said he'd let you kick him in the [BLEEP] when you get home.
丹说，当你回到家时，他会让你踢他的[BLEEP]。
Oh, wait a second.
哦，等一下。
Let me just stop the story right there.
让我先把故事讲到这里吧。
I actually checked with our lawyers.
我实际上咨询过我们的律师。
It's not actually forbidden to say that word on the radio in the United States, but it falls into a gray area.
在美国，实际上并没有禁止在广播中说出这个词，但它属于灰色地带。
And rather than beep it over and over as you tell the story, we thought we might just substitute a word when you and I are talking.
我们认为我们可以在你和我说话时替换一个单词，而不是在你讲故事时一遍又一遍地发出嘟嘟声。
And here are the phrases our lawyers approved to replace that word with-- manliness, man parts, nether region, loins, twins.
以下是我们的律师批准用来取代该词的短语：男子气概、男人部位、阴部、腰部、双胞胎。
[LAUGHS] Sorry.
[笑]抱歉。
That is so-- what was the first one?
是这样——第一个是什么？
Manliness, man parts, nether region, loins, twins.
男子气概、男人部位、阴部、腰部、双胞胎。
You can't say [BLEEP]?
你不能说[BLEEP]？
Ira Glass Can't say [BLEEP].
Ira Glass 不能说[BLEEP]。
Can't say [BLEEP].
不能说[哔]。
We specifically asked about [BLEEP] and [BLEEP].
我们特别询问了 [BLEEP] 和 [BLEEP]。
[LAUGHS] Sorry.
[笑]抱歉。
This is such a funny part of this conversation.
这是这次谈话中非常有趣的部分。
Well, what do you think is best?
嗯，你认为什么是最好的？
I'll just go with whatever you prefer.
我会随你的喜好而去。
I like nether region just because it sounds the funniest to me.
我喜欢下界只是因为它对我来说听起来最有趣。
OK, we can do that.
好的，我们可以做到。
I like it, the nethers.
我喜欢，下界。
The nethers.
下界。
Before long, Chase got physical therapy, where they planned what kind of electric wheelchair they would get him because there was a chance his arms and legs would never recover.
不久之后，蔡斯接受了物理治疗，他们计划给他买什么样的电动轮椅，因为他的胳膊和腿有可能永远无法康复。
But of course, he knew exactly where he was headed, a goal so pure that even a small child could understand it, a goal set specifically because his friends believed he never could reach it.
但当然，他清楚地知道自己要去哪里，这个目标如此纯粹，连小孩子都能理解，因为他的朋友们相信他永远无法实现，所以专门设定了这个目标。
Dan would let me kick him in the nethers.
丹会让我踢他的下体。
I kept that in the back of my head the entire time.
我一直把这件事记在心里。
The entire time I was getting better, I was like, Dan's going to have it.
在我变得更好的整个过程中，我就想，丹会得到它的。
Dan's going to have it.
丹会得到它。
You had a goal.
你有一个目标。
Chase Friedman I had a goal.
蔡斯·弗里德曼 我有一个目标。
I had a lot of goals.
我有很多目标。
And on a more serious note, that was-- having multiple goals was so important to the recovery.
更严重的是，拥有多个目标对于复苏非常重要。
In fact, he had three goals.
事实上，他有三个目标。
Kicking Dan in the nethers was the most ambitious and pie in the sky, but the other two were no cakewalk either and also pretty idiosyncratic.
把丹踢到下界是最雄心勃勃、天上掉馅饼的，但另外两个也不是小事一桩，而且也很奇怪。
Take this next goal.
采取下一个目标。
To flip people off, to give the middle finger.
为了让人们失望，竖起中指。
And I worked so hard on my hands.
而且我的双手非常努力。
OK.
好的。
Chase Friedman But come on.
蔡斯·弗里德曼 但是来吧。
Come on.
快点。
I couldn't move my fingers at all until about two and 1/2 weeks in.
直到大约两周零 1/2 周后我才完全无法移动手指。
I had a breakdown with the therapist there.
我和那里的治疗师发生了关系。
I was crying.
我哭了。
It was one of my first big mental breakdowns.
这是我第一次严重的精神崩溃。
He thought he'd never use his fingers again.
他以为他再也不会使用他的手指了。
She's like, let's see, and told him to try to move his thumb.
她就像，让我们看看，并告诉他尝试移动他的拇指。
He couldn't do it, but he could move his index finger, like just a quiver, like a millimeter.
他做不到，但他可以移动食指，就像颤抖一样，就像毫米一样。
And he set this goal, which he actually achieved a month and a half later with incredible effort.
他设定了这个目标，并在一个半月后通过令人难以置信的努力实现了。
He was finally able to get his middle finger fully straight.
他终于能够把中指完全伸直了。
And I freaked out.
我吓坏了。
I was like, look, I did it.
我当时想，看，我做到了。
All the therapists look at me, and I just start flipping all of them off.
所有的治疗师都看着我，我开始对他们发脾气。
And they're like, yay, yay!
他们就像，耶，耶！
His next goal-- well, Chase actually lives in California, but he'd flown to Philadelphia for the New Year's party and injured himself in Philadelphia, and was now recovering in Philadelphia.
他的下一个目标——嗯，蔡斯实际上住在加利福尼亚州，但他飞到费城参加新年聚会并在费城受伤，现在正在费城康复。
And for him, as an out-of-towner, one of the things that Philadelphia means is those steps Sylvester Stallone runs up in the movie Rocky in front of the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
对于他来说，作为一个外地人，费城的意义之一就是西尔维斯特·史泰龙在电影《洛奇》中在费城艺术博物馆前奔跑的那些台阶。
Chase wanted to climb them, all 72 steps.
蔡斯想爬上去，总共 72 级台阶。
I told my therapist about it.
我告诉了我的治疗师这件事。
And even though, in the beginning, she thought it was going to be impossible, we just kept practicing steps as much as we could.
尽管一开始她认为这是不可能的，但我们还是尽可能多地练习舞步。
That's the thing about the therapy, is they take your goals and they work at it, no matter how ridiculous they are, whether it's kicking someone in the nethers or climbing up some steps.
这就是治疗的特点，他们接受你的目标并为之努力，不管这些目标有多么荒谬，无论是踢某人的下体还是爬上一些台阶。
They really try to gear it towards what you want.
他们确实尝试将其调整为您想要的。
To give you a sense of why the therapist thought it would be impossible or ridiculous-- when Chase came up with this goal, he couldn't stand.
为了让你了解为什么治疗师认为这是不可能或荒谬的——当蔡斯提出这个目标时，他无法忍受。
He couldn't walk.
他无法行走。
Later, they would suspend him above a treadmill with ropes, and two therapists would move his legs to get the muscles to remember what walking is.
随后，他们会用绳子将他悬挂在跑步机上方，两名治疗师会移动他的双腿，让肌肉记住什么是行走。
Then he would learn to walk with a cane and then without a cane.
然后他会学会拄着拐杖走路，然后学会不拐杖走路。
But before he did any of that, back when he was still just learning to get around in a wheelchair, they started him going upstairs to make this goal.
但在他做到这一切之前，当他刚刚学习坐在轮椅上行走时，他们就开始让他上楼去实现这个目标。
And two and 1/2 months after he entered the hospital, he went to the steps where Rocky trained, rode in a wheelchair up to the first step, stood, and started climbing slowly, watching each foot as he planted it-- one, then the other, a physical therapist steadying him from behind.
入院两周又零二个月后，他来到洛基训练的台阶上，坐在轮椅上走到第一级台阶，站起来，开始慢慢攀登，在落地时观察每只脚——一只脚，然后是另一只，物理治疗师从后面扶住他。
And balance is difficult.
而且平衡是很困难的。
I have to look down.
我得往下看。
So the whole time I'm looking down at my legs.
所以我一直低着头看着我的腿。
And I can hear a bunch of people clapping, but I'm so focused.
我能听到一群人鼓掌，但我很专注。
I go up the first little flight, go up the second little flight.
我登上第一个小梯段，登上第二个小梯段。
I look up-- hundreds of people.
我抬头一看——数百人。
Ira Glass He actually posted a thing online saying he was going to climb the Rocky steps and livestream it, and he didn't expect that lots of people would actually show up in person to see him climb to the top.
Ira Glass 他实际上在网上发了一条消息，说他要爬落基台阶并进行直播，他没想到真的有很多人亲自出现，看他爬到山顶。
Almost there.
快到了。
One more!
再来一张！
One more!
再来一张！
One more!
再来一张！
[CHEERING AND CLAPPING] Ira Glass So, a triumph.
[欢呼和鼓掌]艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 所以，这是一次胜利。
But there was one goal left, the final goal, the most difficult goal for a bunch of reasons that we'll get to in a minute-- kicking Dan in the nethers.
但还剩下一个目标，最后一个目标，由于多种原因而成为最困难的目标，我们稍后会讲到——踢丹的下半身。
Dr. Emily Beus is one of Chase's physical therapists.
艾米丽·博伊斯博士是蔡斯的物理治疗师之一。
She says most of her patients had spinal cord injuries, and they had all kinds of goals.
她说，她的大多数患者都患有脊髓损伤，他们有各种各样的目标。
But when Chase first told her about this one, she was like, wait, you want to work on your kicking why?
但当蔡斯第一次告诉她这件事时，她说，等等，你想锻炼你的踢球能力，为什么？
That was definitely a first for me.
这对我来说绝对是第一次。
I'm not sure I've ever had anybody request that.
我不确定是否有人提出这样的要求。
And as a physical therapist, just like with doctors or anybody else, our general motto is "do no harm."
作为物理治疗师，就像医生或其他任何人一样，我们的座右铭是“不造成伤害”。
Oh, it hadn't occurred to me that you helping him kick Dan in the nethers could actually be a violation of your Hippocratic oath.
哦，我没想到你帮他踢丹的下体实际上可能违反了你的希波克拉底誓言。
I know.
我知道。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, it just made me hesitate because we talk about ethics a lot, and we never want to harm anybody else.
好吧，这让我犹豫了，因为我们经常谈论道德，而且我们从来不想伤害任何人。
And so I was a little hesitant at first, but the more we talked about it and I understood that it was not like he was just going to try to go out and harm somebody without their consent.
所以一开始我有点犹豫，但我们谈论得越多，我就明白他不会在未经别人同意的情况下试图出去伤害别人。
Yeah.
是的。
Dr. Emily Beus And so I said, OK, well, let's break it down.
Emily Beus 博士所以我说，好吧，让我们来分解一下。
We practiced kicking.
我们练习踢腿。
We warmed up with some kicking a soccer ball because it was soft.
我们通过踢足球来热身，因为它很软。
It was easy.
这很容易。
Kicking a soccer ball-- a lot of kicking isn't just the leg you're kicking with.
踢足球——很多踢球不仅仅是用你踢球的腿。
It's being able to have your balance standing on one leg, which for Chase was a challenge.
能够用一条腿保持平衡，这对蔡斯来说是一个挑战。
It's a lot more difficult for me to stand on my right leg, even today.
即使在今天，用右腿站立对我来说也困难得多。
And then it was a little bit higher kicks to a standing-up kind of bolster.
然后是对站立式抱枕的更高一点的踢腿。
And we practiced each leg and figured out which leg would produce the most force, which one he had the best balance on, and all of that.
我们练习每条腿，找出哪条腿能产生最大的力量，哪条腿的平衡性最好，等等。
The left side of my body is in better condition, so we thought, is it better to balance on my left leg and kick with the right?
我身体的左侧状况比较好，所以我们想，是不是用左腿保持平衡，用右腿踢腿比较好呢？
Turned out no, it was better to just try to balance on my right and kick with the left because it was a lot stronger.
结果不是，最好尝试用右侧保持平衡，然后用左侧踢球，因为它更强壮。
So it was kind of strategic and fun just to sort of figure out which one would get the task done, make it so it wasn't just like he was tapping him or--
所以，弄清楚哪一个人能完成任务，让事情变得不那么像他在轻拍他，或者——
[LAUGHTER] Ira Glass Which leg would really do some damage.
[笑声] Ira Glass 哪条腿真的会造成一些伤害。
Yeah, I mean, which would make him feel like he'd really recovered.
是的，我是说，这会让他感觉自己真的康复了。
Chase did recover much more quickly and completely than most of the patients Emily saw, she says.
蔡斯确实比艾米丽看到的大多数病人恢复得更快、更完全，她说。
His particular injury just ended up working out like that.
他的特殊伤势最终就变成了这样。
And so just a month after the Rocky steps, he reached his final goal and made a little video.
因此，就在洛基台阶一个月后，他就实现了他的最终目标并制作了一个小视频。
Hey, guys.
嘿，伙计们。
I'm Dan.
我是丹。
I'm about to be kicked in the [BLEEP].
我快要被踢到[BLEEP]。
In the video, Dan seems like the most good-natured person who has ever lived.
在视频中，丹似乎是有史以来最善良的人。
He smiles.
他微笑着。
And let me tell you, when the day did come, when we were actually doing it, the first time I went for the kick I thought I got him, but I hit him in the thigh and not the nethers.
让我告诉你，当那一天真正到来时，当我们真正这样做时，我第一次踢他时，我以为我抓住了他，但我击中了他的大腿，而不是下身。
And he could have faked it.
他本可以伪造的。
He could have laid on the floor and pretended to be in pain.
他本可以躺在地板上假装痛苦。
Immediately, he was like, Chase, you missed.
他立刻就说，蔡斯，你错过了。
Do it again.
再做一次。
I'm like, all right, here we go.
我想，好吧，我们开始吧。
In the video, Dan stands there, legs spread awkwardly, one hand covering his eyes, but laughing, which I think summarizes all the feelings you could have in that moment.
在视频中，丹站在那里，双腿笨拙地分开，一只手遮住眼睛，但在笑，我认为这概括了你在那一刻可能拥有的所有感受。
Chase quietly says sorry.
蔡斯小声地说对不起。
He told me he felt bad for Dan, but he also felt like he'd come so far.
他告诉我他为丹感到难过，但他也觉得自己已经走了这么远。
When the text got sent initially, they thought it was never going to happen.
当短信最初发送时，他们认为这永远不会发生。
They thought it was going to be impossible.
他们认为这是不可能的。
Instead, I slammed him in his nethers.
相反，我猛击他的下体。
I slammed him, Ira.
我猛烈抨击了他，艾拉。
He was on the ground.
他在地上。
He was not OK.
他不太好。
He was OK after.
之后他就没事了。
And also, he says in the video, "Chase slammed me in the nethers, and it felt so good." Because he, at the same time, was so proud of me for being able to get to a point where that was even possible.
而且，他在视频中说，“蔡斯猛击我的下体，感觉真好。”因为他同时也为我能够达到这样的境界而感到自豪。
He still has a way to go.
他还有很长的路要走。
He's not all recovered, still devoting his days to physical therapy.
他还没有完全康复，仍然致力于物理治疗。
His latest goal says a lot about where he is right now.
他最新的进球充分说明了他现在的处境。
He wants to walk well enough that people can't tell he ever had an injury.
他想要走得足够好，以至于人们看不出他受过伤。
He wants to seem how he used to be.
他想让自己看起来像以前一样。
It's still hard for him to open a water bottle or change a light bulb.
对他来说，打开水瓶或更换灯泡仍然很困难。
Chest down, he doesn't feel temperature at all.
胸口低下，根本感觉不到温度。
So he can feel the water from the shower hit him, but can't tell how hot it is.
所以他能感觉到淋浴的水流打在他身上，但无法说出有多热。
And then my fingers, I can feel when they're touching things, but I can't always feel the texture.
然后我的手指，当它们触摸东西时我能感觉到，但我不能总是感觉到质地。
So when I'm reaching for something in my pocket, I don't always know if I'm grabbing my wallet, or my keys, or just the pants.
因此，当我伸手去拿口袋里的东西时，我并不总是知道我是在抓钱包、钥匙还是裤子。
It's kind of difficult.
这有点困难。
But I do have sensation everywhere.
但我确实到处都有感觉。
It just varies, the level.
只是水平不同而已。
But it's interesting that you are so recovered, but you're not totally there.
但有趣的是，你已经康复了，但你还没有完全康复。
You've come so far, but you're not totally there.
你已经走了这么远，但还没有完全到达目的地。
You're in this weird limbo.
你正处于这种奇怪的困境中。
It is weird.
这很奇怪。
I'm not sure how much I like it.
我不确定我有多喜欢它。
I just want all this to be done.
我只想完成这一切。
I just want the recovery to be done.
我只想完成恢复。
Whether I fully recover or not, I just want to be at the point where I don't have to dedicate my entire life to getting better.
无论我是否完全康复，我只想达到这样一个阶段：我不必奉献一生来让自己变得更好。
The point I'm super excited to get to is when I'm not thinking about it.
当我不去想它的时候，我会感到超级兴奋。
Because right now, every time I move my hand, it's just in my head-- oh, I have this injury.
因为现在，每次我移动我的手，它就在我的脑海里——哦，我有这个伤。
Every time I move my leg, oh, I have this injury.
每次一动腿，哦，我就有这个伤。
He wants to get to the point where he's used to what his body can do at whatever level that turns out to be.
他希望能够适应自己的身体在任何水平上的能力。
He doesn't want this dominating his thoughts and his whole day.
他不想让这件事主宰他的思想和一整天。
But this is the thing-- recovery means something different for everybody.
但这就是问题所在——康复对每个人来说意味着不同的事情。
Each person sets their own goals.
每个人都会设定自己的目标。
Part of recovering is actually defining for yourself what your own recovery means.
康复的一部分实际上是为自己定义自己的康复意味着什么。
Today on our program, we have people coming back from some very different things.
今天，在我们的节目中，人们从一些非常不同的事情中回来。
They're in the same limbo Chase is in, where they're partly there, but not all the way.
他们和蔡斯处于同样的困境，他们只是部分地存在，但不是全部。
They're in the middle, which is this moment of enormous hope, but also a lot of other stuff too.
他们处于中间，这是充满巨大希望的时刻，但也有很多其他的东西。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Naked Lunch.
第一幕，裸体午餐。
So today's show really came out of a question that one of our longtime producers, Susan Burton, had about something that's happening in her own life.
所以今天的节目确实是出于我们的一位长期制作人苏珊·伯顿（Susan Burton）对她自己生活中发生的事情提出的一个问题。
You may remember, a few months ago, Susan told a story on our show about her eating disorder.
您可能还记得，几个月前，苏珊在我们的节目中讲述了一个关于她饮食失调的故事。
And that was something she had kept secret for most of her life from everyone in her life, and then she revealed the secret in a book she wrote, this memoir that came out last summer.
这是她一生中大部分时间都对生活中的每个人保密的事情，然后她在她写的一本去年夏天出版的回忆录中透露了这个秘密。
And the book is about what it's like to have an eating disorder, not about how to get over one.
这本书讲述的是患有饮食失调症的感觉，而不是如何克服饮食失调症。
Because when Susan wrote it, she was not over it.
因为当苏珊写下这句话时，她还没有结束。
She still isn't.
她仍然不是。
And over the two and 1/2 years that she's been working toward recovery, she started to wonder, what does recovery from an eating disorder even mean?
在她努力康复的两年零 1/2 的时间里，她开始想知道，从饮食失调中恢复到底意味着什么？
A heads-up that if hearing stories about eating disorders aggravates your own eating disorder symptoms, this may affect you.
请注意，如果听到有关饮食失调的故事加剧了您自己的饮食失调症状，这可能会影响您。
Here's Susan.
这是苏珊。
At the beginning of recovery, I never thought about recovery.
在康复之初，我从未想过康复。
What I thought about was telling my secret.
我想到的就是说出我的秘密。
The secret was the eating disorder I'd had for 30 years.
秘密就在于我已经患了三十年的饮食失调症。
What was this eating disorder?
这是什么饮食失调？
It had been so many things-- starving, bingeing.
发生了很多事情——饥饿、暴饮暴食。
It's not like you pick an eating disorder as a teenage girl and you have that one for the rest of your life.
这并不是说你在十几岁的时候就患上了饮食失调症，然后你的余生都会患有这种疾病。
The [BLEEP] up relationship with food is what you have for the rest of your life-- or what it felt like, to me, I was going to have when, at age 45, I stepped into my therapist's office for the first time.
与食物的 [BLEEP] 关系是你余生所拥有的——或者对我来说，当我 45 岁时第一次走进治疗师的办公室时，我就会有这种感觉。
I'm preoccupied with food, and I don't want to be, I told her.
我告诉她，我全神贯注于食物，但我不想这样。
That was the beginning.
这就是开始。
Now I'm in the middle, two and 1/2 years in.
现在我正处于中间，两岁零 1/2 岁了。
And what that looks like, it isn't easy to summarize.
这看起来是什么样子，并不容易概括。
Easy would be, I now do X behavior instead of Y.
很简单，我现在做 X 行为而不是 Y。
I don't have that kind of sentence, but I do have examples like this one.
我没有这样的句子，但我有这样的例子。
One afternoon this spring, my husband made cookies.
今年春天的一个下午，我丈夫做了饼干。
I took one from the cooling rack, and I ate it with him and our 16-year-old son.
我从冷却架上拿了一份，和他以及我们 16 岁的儿子一起吃了。
Maybe that sounds like a small thing.
也许这听起来是一件小事。
Maybe that sounds like nothing.
也许这听起来没什么。
I have to curb that impulse to tell you how small these things are, how nothing they are, because with an eating disorder how you relate to food connects to and disrupts how you relate to everyone in your life.
我必须抑制住告诉你这些东西有多小，它们有多微不足道的冲动，因为患有饮食失调症时，你与食物的关系会影响你与生活中每个人的关系，也会破坏你与每个人的关系。
And eating something sweet at that time of day-- for me, that's not nothing.
在一天中的这个时候吃点甜食——对我来说，这并不是什么。
That happens alone, in secret, because the pleasure is so intense.
这种事独自发生、秘密发生，因为快乐是如此强烈。
It cannot be seen.
它是看不见的。
It cannot be shared.
它无法共享。
There will be no pleasure if it's shared.
如果分享的话就不会有快乐。
But that day, I leaned against the counter and ate the cookie, and it felt good.
但那天，我靠在柜台上吃饼干，感觉很好。
It was one of so many things I didn't realize about recovery.
这是我没有意识到关于康复的众多事情之一。
It's not just eating intuitively.
这不仅仅是凭直觉吃。
It's making food something shared instead of something secret.
它使食物成为共享的东西，而不是秘密的东西。
Another day, my other son, age 13, came into the kitchen.
另一天，我 13 岁的另一个儿子走进厨房。
He wanted me to come out to the garden so he could show me how the vines of his cucumbers were hardening as they twined.
他想让我到花园里去，这样他就可以向我展示他的黄瓜藤蔓在缠绕时是如何变硬的。
He wanted to show me now, and it couldn't be now.
他现在就想给我看，但现在不可能。
How could anyone be asking me to do anything now?
现在怎么会有人要求我做任何事呢？
I couldn't.
我不能。
No. In a second.
不，一会儿。
And he went back outside.
然后他又回到外面。
But the reason I couldn't was that I just pitted cherries that I was going to put on ice cream.
但我不能的原因是我只是把樱桃去核，然后放在冰淇淋上。
The food was incoming, on the way.
食物已经到了，正在路上。
It could not be stopped.
它无法被阻止。
I could not be intruded on.
我不能被打扰。
When I finished, I went straight to the garden, and my son showed me the vines.
完成后，我直接去了花园，儿子给我看了葡萄藤。
I stood there hating myself, reflecting on how many such moments there have been over the years.
我站在那里恨自己，反思这些年来有多少这样的时刻。
I can't right now, not right now.
我现在不能，现在不行。
I've done a lot of that, like a lot of mothers.
我和很多母亲一样，做过很多这样的事。
And a lot of it has had to do with work.
其中很多都与工作有关。
But work-- come on, really?
但是工作——来吧，真的吗？
There's no shame in that admission.
这种承认并不可耻。
There's all this hand wringing about guilt and work and motherhood, but hard work is the most culturally sanctioned thing in America.
人们对内疚、工作和母性感到绞尽脑汁，但努力工作是美国文化中最受认可的事情。
Try revealing that you've turned your child away because of food.
尝试透露您因为食物而拒绝孩子。
Do you detect anger?
你察觉到愤怒吗？
Most of us with eating disorders-- volcanically angry.
我们大多数人都患有饮食失调症——愤怒如火山。
Also most of us-- placid or even fun girl disguised.
我们大多数人也是如此——伪装的平静甚至有趣的女孩。
That's part of recovery too, expressing anger, not hiding.
这也是恢复的一部分，表达愤怒，而不是隐藏。
My body-- my body is recovering too.
我的身体——我的身体也在恢复。
It's changing.
它正在改变。
My body's like those sponges my children always wanted when they were young and we were in line at the grocery store.
我的身体就像我的孩子们小时候一直想要的那些海绵，当时我们在杂货店排队。
The sponges are thin, like sticks of gum, the color of Manila envelopes.
海绵很薄，像口香糖一样，颜色像马尼拉信封。
When you put them in water, they expand.
当你把它们放入水中时，它们会膨胀。
That's what my body has done.
这就是我的身体所做的。
It's like one of those flat sponges that expanded.
它就像一块膨胀的扁平海绵。
I told this to my therapist.
我把这件事告诉了我的治疗师。
That's an interesting word, flat, she said.
这是一个有趣的词，“平淡”，她说。
It's the word I mean, I emphasized-- flat, not thin.
我强调的就是我的意思——扁平，而不是薄。
Yes, she said.
是的，她说。
And you were flat inside too, emotionally.
而你的内心、情感上也很平淡。
And that was true.
这确实是事实。
That's what the eating disorder does to you.
这就是饮食失调对你的影响。
That's part of why you have it, so you won't feel.
这就是你拥有它的部分原因，所以你不会有感觉。
That's maybe the whole point.
这也许就是重点。
Clothes-- a blue linen dress with buttons down the front.
衣服——蓝色亚麻连衣裙，前面有纽扣。
There came a day in May when it was the right weather for it.
五月的某一天，天气正好。
I put on the dress, which used to be loose, but no longer was.
我穿上了裙子，以前是宽松的，但现在不再宽松了。
But the difference was that I didn't want it to be loose.
但不同的是我不想让它松动。
In the kitchen, my husband reached for me.
在厨房里，我丈夫伸手来拉我。
He put his hands on my waist, rounded them over my hips.
他把手放在我的腰上，绕过我的臀部。
And I wanted it.
我想要它。
I wanted to be touched.
我想要被感动。
That was new too.
那也是新的。
But the way I've gained the weight-- OK, so this is mixed.
但我增加体重的方式——好吧，所以这是好坏参半的。
Some of it-- it's not the bingeing I did for years, but there's been a lot of reaching for food all day.
其中一些——这不是我多年来的暴饮暴食，而是整天伸手去拿食物。
I long to eat in an orderly way, like meals on plates at consistent times, but I struggle to do so.
我渴望有秩序地吃饭，就像在固定的时间在盘子里吃饭一样，但我很难做到这一点。
There's a specific meal that comes to mind when I think about not only where I am in recovery, but what I want from it.
当我不仅想到我的康复情况，还想到我想从中得到什么时，我就会想到一顿特别的饭菜。
I want to be normal about lunch.
我想吃午餐时保持正常。
Want to know the scene I associate with lunch?
想知道我与午餐相关的场景吗？
Our This American Life staff meeting, which happens in person once a week, when there's not a pandemic.
我们的“This American Life”员工会议在没有大流行的情况下每周举行一次。
Every week, food is ordered in and laid out on a table in takeout containers.
每周，食物都会被订购并放在外卖容器中的桌子上。
I've never once taken the food we order in for this meeting.
我从来没有吃过我们为这次会议订购的食物。
For years, I've watched people pick up plates and just put food on those plates, and then sit down at the meeting and eat that food while we are talking.
多年来，我看到人们拿起盘子，然后把食物放在盘子上，然后坐在会议上，一边聊天一边吃食物。
Every part of this is a marvel to me.
这一切的每一部分对我来说都是一个奇迹。
But actually, what happens even before they get to the food, that's probably the most important part, that they stood from their desks and came to get the food, neither hating themselves for already having eaten at the wrong time nor brittle and empty because they've been too scared to put anything in.
但实际上，在他们拿到食物之前发生的事情，这可能是最重要的部分，他们从办公桌前站起来去拿食物，既不因为自己在错误的时间吃过饭而憎恨自己，也不因为太害怕而不敢放任何东西而变得脆弱和空虚。
I imagine hunger rising in a normal way in their bodies, a kind of rising hunger that's so unfamiliar.
我想象他们体内的饥饿感会以正常的方式上升，这是一种非常陌生的饥饿感。
It's like I crave it in the way people maybe crave love, or touch, or something.
就像我渴望它一样，就像人们渴望爱、触摸或其他什么一样。
It happens so rarely for me.
这种事对我来说很少发生。
This is what I'm thinking about when I sit in a circle of coworkers with plates on their laps.
当我坐在同事们的圈子里，腿上放着盘子时，我就在想这个问题。
I'm looking at these people and imagining what they feel in their bodies.
我看着这些人，想象他们身体的感受。
It makes me feel very distant from them in a way that's kind of far reaching, and it extends out to other ways I relate to my coworkers and everyone in my life.
这让我感觉自己与他们之间的距离很远，而且影响深远，而且这种感觉还延伸到了我与同事和生活中的每个人建立联系的其他方式。
So yeah, in recovery, I want to be normal about lunch.
所以，是的，在康复过程中，我想正常吃午饭。
Normal-- we all know there is no normal, that normal is being phased out.
正常——我们都知道没有正常，正常正在被逐步淘汰。
But normal stays in my head when it comes to food.
但当谈到食物时，“正常”就留在了我的脑海里。
Normal about food-- is that recovery?
食物正常——这是恢复吗？
When my book came out and I was first doing interviews about it, people would ask me, where are you with food now?
当我的书出版时，我第一次接受采访时，人们会问我，你现在在哪里，有食物吗？
I would say, I'm working toward recovery, but I felt so uneasy whenever I said this.
我会说，我正在努力康复，但每当我这么说时，我都感到很不安。
Felt like I was throwing around a phrase I didn't understand and that my ignorance was clear to everyone who actually knew about eating disorder recovery.
感觉就像我在抛出一个我不理解的短语，而每个真正了解饮食失调恢复的人都清楚我的无知。
I just felt so out of my depth, just so new to this, to every part of it, to the working toward it part, to recovery-- which, just to say, was that the process or the end?
我只是感觉超出了我的深度，对这一切、对它的每一部分、对它的努力、对恢复都是如此陌生——只是说，这是过程还是结果？
Was there an end?
有结束吗？
What does recovery from an eating disorder even mean?
从饮食失调中恢复意味着什么？
Square one-- I went looking for the official clinical definition of eating disorder recovery.
第一方——我去寻找饮食失调康复的官方临床定义。
I wanted this as context, as a baseline, but it turned out there was no baseline.
我想把它作为背景、作为基线，但事实证明没有基线。
There's no consensus about what recovery means.
对于恢复的含义尚未达成共识。
Most definitions include physical criteria like, are you at a healthy weight, and behavioral like, have you stopped bingeing?
大多数定义包括身体标准，例如，您的体重是否健康，以及行为标准，例如，您停止暴饮暴食了吗？
But there's also how much you're thinking about food, your ability to express emotions, all the stuff that has nothing to do with eating.
但还有你对食物的思考程度、你表达情绪的能力，以及所有与饮食无关的事情。
This is where the lack of consensus comes in, over what other stuff belongs in the definition.
这就是对于定义中其他内容的归属缺乏共识的地方。
Intellectually, I was interested in all of this.
从理智上来说，我对这一切都很感兴趣。
But emotionally, what I really wanted was to talk about recovery with people who'd been through it, people further along in it than me.
但从情感上来说，我真正想要的是与经历过这段经历的人、比我走得更远的人谈论康复。
I wanted to talk about what recovery felt like to them, maybe as a way of imagining myself into my own version of it.
我想谈谈他们康复的感觉，也许是为了将自己想象成我自己的版本。
And I had two people in mind.
我心里有两个人。
The first one was someone who'd said a single word to me about recovery that captured how I wanted to feel there, a word that I'd been returning to for months.
第一个人对我说了一个关于康复的词，这句话抓住了我想要在那里的感觉，几个月来我一直在回想起这个词。
The word was "sturdy."
这个词就是“坚固”。
I'm very happy to be talking to you again.
我很高兴再次与你交谈。
OK, good.
好的，很好。
Me too.
我也是。
If you're-- I don't know-- under 30 and you grew up watching Nickelodeon, you probably know who Jennette McCurdy is.
如果你——我不知道——30 岁以下，并且是看着 Nickelodeon 长大的，你可能知道 Jennette McCurdy 是谁。
She was a star of teen comedies-- iCarly, Sam & Cat.
她是青少年喜剧明星——《爱卡莉》、《山姆和猫》。
In her early 20s, she quit acting.
20岁出头时，她退出演艺圈。
It was actually part of her eating disorder recovery.
这实际上是她饮食失调康复的一部分。
And now she has a podcast called Empty Inside.
现在她有一个名为“Empty Inside”的播客。
She interviewed me for it last summer, which is when she said that word, "sturdy," that stayed with me ever since.
去年夏天她为此采访了我，当时她说了“坚强”这个词，从那时起，这个词就一直伴随着我。
First and most importantly, I felt sturdy enough in my recovery that I could share my story.
首先也是最重要的是，我在康复过程中感到足够坚强，可以分享我的故事。
When we spoke, you use this word to describe your recovery.
当我们谈话时，您用这个词来描述您的康复情况。
You said you waited to tell your story until you were sturdy.
你说你要等到你变得坚强才讲你的故事。
As soon as you said that word, something about it grabbed me.
你一说出这个词，我就被某种东西抓住了。
And then when I responded to you, I even repeated the word, kind of trying it out.
然后当我回复你时，我什至重复了这个词，有点尝试一下。
It just shows a lot of self-knowledge too that you waited to a point where you were sturdy.
这也显示出你有很多自知之明，你等待着你变得坚强。
Because, of course, it opens you up to all kinds of stuff.
当然，因为它让你接触到各种各样的东西。
And it stayed with me after the interview.
面试后它一直留在我的脑海里。
And I think it had so much significance because it described to me both an emotional and a physical place.
我认为它具有如此重要的意义，因为它向我描述了一个情感和物质的地方。
I had for so long privileged and tried for frailness and fragility, and so the idea of being sturdy was suddenly appealing to me.
长期以来，我一直享有特权，并尝试过脆弱和脆弱，所以坚强的想法突然吸引了我。
Like, a sturdy body, but also sturdiness in the way that you could be buffeted by bad [BLEEP], by the hard experiences, come out OK.
就像，一个坚固的身体，但也坚固到你可以被糟糕的[BLEEP]、艰难的经历所打击，结果还好。
You could withstand it.
你能承受得住。
You might get blown about, but you wouldn't get broken.
你可能会被风吹走，但你不会被击垮。
You would be OK.
你会没事的。
And I think as far as thinking about my recovery, it's been an interesting word to return to because it's not as woo-woo as some other stuff, like phoenix rising or--
我认为，就我的康复而言，这是一个有趣的词，因为它不像其他一些东西那样令人惊叹，比如凤凰涅槃或——
the tiger Susan Burton --yeah, you know what I mean?
老虎苏珊·伯顿——是的，你明白我的意思吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Susan Burton There's something really real about it.
苏珊·伯顿：这确实有一些真实的东西。
Anyway.
反正。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Susan Burton OK, so I want to hear what "sturdy" means to you.
苏珊·伯顿（Susan Burton）好的，所以我想听听“坚固”对你来说意味着什么。
Well, I mean, I just have to say, anytime somebody starts comparing people to animals-- the lioness prowls and the night sky-- I'm like, you lost me.
好吧，我的意思是，我不得不说，每当有人开始将人与动物进行比较时——母狮徘徊和夜空——我就想，你失去了我。
There's nothing real that I can grab onto.
没有什么真实的东西是我可以抓住的。
So for me, it's really important to use language that reflects reality.
所以对我来说，使用反映现实的语言非常重要。
What "sturdy" meant to Jennette was that she felt strong enough in her recovery to speak publicly about her eating disorder without falling back into it.
对于詹妮特来说，“坚强”意味着她在康复过程中感觉足够坚强，可以公开谈论她的饮食失调症，而不会再次陷入困境。
And to give you a sense of what she had to recover from, her eating disorder started when she was 11.
为了让你了解她必须从什么中恢复过来，她的饮食失调症在她 11 岁时就开始了。
And being a child actor, I always played roles that were younger than my actual age.
作为一名童星，我总是扮演比我实际年龄更年轻的角色。
And it was very beneficial to be able to play roles that were younger than my age because you could work longer hours.
能够扮演比我年龄小的角色是非常有益的，因为你可以工作更长的时间。
So they were much more inclined to cast you if you were 12 playing eight than if you were eight playing eight.
因此，如果你是 12 岁的人，他们会比你 8 岁的人玩八人的时候更倾向于选你。
But when I was 11, I sort of started developing a little, tiny-- I'll call it a nipple bud.
但当我 11 岁的时候，我开始长出一个很小的东西——我称之为乳头芽。
I don't know what else to call it, like just a little-- like the littlest peep of a breast.
我不知道还能叫它什么，就像一点点——就像乳房的最小一瞥。
And my mom had actually had cancer when I was two years old, so I thought-- the only thing I knew about lumps in breasts was that that meant cancer.
我两岁时，我妈妈实际上得了癌症，所以我想——我对乳房肿块的唯一了解就是这意味着癌症。
So I thought, oh, no, she had cancer.
所以我想，哦，不，她得了癌症。
Now I have cancer.
现在我得了癌症。
I showed my mom this lump.
我给妈妈看了这个肿块。
She felt it, and she said, oh, Nettie, no. You don't have cancer.
她感觉到了，然后她说，哦，内蒂，不。你没有癌症。
You're just getting breasts.
你才刚刚长出胸部。
And in my 11-year-old mind, breasts were just about as bad as cancer, truly.
在我 11 岁的心目中，乳房确实和癌症一样糟糕。
I did not want to be older.
我不想变老。
I knew that that would be really, really not good for my acting career.
我知道这对我的演艺生涯真的非常不利。
And I was largely the financial support for my family.
我主要是为我的家庭提供经济支持。
So I knew that meant bad things for my family.
所以我知道这对我的家人来说意味着不好的事情。
I just wanted to stay young.
我只是想保持年轻。
So I said, well, how can I keep the boobs from coming?
所以我说，好吧，我怎样才能阻止胸部涌出呢？
And my mom said, well, there's this thing called calorie restriction.
我妈妈说，好吧，有一种叫做卡路里限制的东西。
Jennette actually wrote a song about this conversation.
珍妮特实际上为这次谈话写了一首歌。
It's from a one-woman show she's been performing.
这是她表演的一场独女秀的片段。
(SINGING) It might be time for me to teach you a thing called calorie restriction, yay.
（唱歌）也许是时候让我教你一种叫做卡路里限制的东西了，是的。
[LAUGHTER] I'm 11 years old.
[笑声] 我今年 11 岁。
I don't know what that is.
我不知道那是什么。
Well, 11 years old is the perfect age to find out.
嗯，11 岁是找出答案的最佳年龄。
And from that point on, she not only coached me, but really-- she had had eating disorders of her own for quite a long time, so we were sort of this-- I call it a mommy and me eating disorder team.
从那时起，她不仅指导我，而且实际上 - 她自己患有饮食失调症很长一段时间，所以我们就是这样 - 我称之为妈妈和我的饮食失调团队。
And we were just-- we'd help each other out every single night-- meal planning for the next day, calorie counting for the day that we just experienced, and swapping tips and tricks, and reading Woman's World magazine diet pages together.
我们只是——我们每天晚上都会互相帮助——计划第二天的膳食，计算我们刚刚经历的一天的卡路里，交换提示和技巧，并一起阅读《女性世界》杂志的饮食页面。
And we were just-- I thought it was this fabulous thing where we were just this little duo.
我们只是——我认为这是一件美妙的事情，我们只是这个小二人组。
And I thought, wow, I'm so lucky my mom's helping me with this thing.
我想，哇，我很幸运我妈妈能帮我做这件事。
I'm helping her.
我正在帮助她。
Look at us go.
看着我们走。
(SINGING) Life's better when you're empty inside.
（唱歌）当你内心空虚时，生活会更好。
It's harder when you're full.
当你吃饱的时候就更难了。
Trust me, I've tried.
相信我，我已经尝试过了。
The idea of going over the calories for your day with your mother-- I mean, how many times in my life have I made little lists of 200 plus 150 plus-- but it was so alone.
和你妈妈一起检查一天的卡路里摄入量的想法——我的意思是，我一生中有多少次列过200加150以上的小清单——但它是如此孤独。
I mean, my god, that you were doing it with your mother.
我的意思是，天哪，你是和你妈妈一起做的。
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
是的，是的，绝对是的。
I mean, I think definitely the experience of eating disorders so often is something that's so lonely.
我的意思是，我认为经常出现饮食失调的经历肯定是非常孤独的。
And while it became that for me after my mom died, and the eating disorder switched to bulimia, for almost the entire time that I had anorexia, it was very much a team sport.
虽然在我妈妈去世后，饮食失调变成了暴食症，但对我来说，几乎在我患有厌食症的整个过程中，这在很大程度上是一项团队运动。
Now you try, sweetheart.
现在你试试吧，亲爱的。
Jennette McCurdy OK, Mommy.
珍妮特·麦柯迪 好的，妈妈。
(SINGING) Life's better when you're empty inside.
（唱歌）当你内心空虚时，生活会更好。
I will stay empty to fill you with pride.
我会保持空虚，让你充满骄傲。
Susan Burton Was there, like, a moment or, like, a stage where you started using the word "recovery" to describe your experience to yourself?
苏珊·伯顿 (Susan Burton) 是否有某个时刻或某个阶段，您开始使用“康复”这个词来向自己描述您的经历？
Well, I'm glad we talked a little bit about woo-woo words earlier, because there was something, actually, in recovery that I did not like.
好吧，我很高兴我们之前谈论了一些关于“呜呜”的话，因为实际上，在恢复过程中有些东西我不喜欢。
When I thought of the word "recovery," I thought it's somebody in head-to-toe linen, just beach waves, grinning ear to ear, laughing about how easy their life is, picking up a seashell and tossing it into the sea.
当我想到“康复”这个词时，我以为这是一个从头到脚穿着亚麻布的人，只是海滩上的波浪，笑得合不拢嘴，嘲笑他们的生活是多么轻松，捡起一个贝壳，把它扔进海里。
That was not how I felt about life or was sure I would ever, ever feel about life.
这不是我对生活的感受，也不是我确信我永远不会对生活有这样的感受。
So I was very wary of using the word "recovery" for quite some time.
所以很长一段时间我对使用“恢复”这个词非常谨慎。
And I would say I-- I just try to bypass that and use other words.
我会说我——我只是试图绕过这个并使用其他词。
I'm trying to think of what I said.
我正在努力思考我所说的话。
I would just be-- I would say it's something I'm working on.
我只是——我会说这是我正在做的事情。
Midway through, she got to a point that sounds a lot like where I am now.
中途，她的处境听起来很像我现在的处境。
She describes the feeling this way.
她这样描述这种感觉。
I've been in recovery for a few years, and I'm not where I want to be.
我已经康复了几年，但我还没有达到我想要的状态。
This has been very stop and go.
这真是走走停停。
It's been a very good week, bad week.
这是非常好的一周，也是糟糕的一周。
I'm not satisfied with that.
我对此并不满意。
I want to wake up tomorrow and work toward being fully recovered.
我想明天醒来并努力完全康复。
I think it's time, and I felt ready.
我想是时候了，而且我已经准备好了。
Yeah.
是的。
So at that point, I mean, because-- among the reasons I wanted to talk to you is because you are-- as somebody who dislikes the phrase "recovery journey" as much as you-- but you are further along that beach-- along the beach in your linen dress than I am.
所以在这一点上，我的意思是，因为——我想和你说话的原因之一是因为你——作为一个和你一样不喜欢“康复之旅”这个词的人——但你沿着那片海滩走得更远——穿着亚麻连衣裙沿着海滩比我走得更远。
And I feel really ready to be on the other side of this.
我觉得自己已经准备好站在这一切的另一边了。
So for somebody like me who's listening to you tell this story and is like, I have that thought too, I want to put it behind me, so like how are you able-- what did you do next that got you to where you are now?
所以对于像我这样听你讲这个故事的人来说，我也有这个想法，我想把它抛在脑后，所以你怎么能——你接下来做了什么让你走到了现在的位置？
Jeanette's answer to my question about what she did next was essentially it wasn't what she did next that mattered.
珍妮特对我关于她下一步做什么的问题的回答是，本质上，她下一步做什么并不重要。
It was all the work she'd already done.
这是她已经完成的所有工作。
In therapy, she'd grappled with a lot of the underlying reasons for her eating disorder, felt rage toward her mother, grieved her mother.
在治疗中，她解决了饮食失调的许多根本原因，对母亲感到愤怒，让母亲感到悲伤。
Yes, she was still purging and still restricting, but way, way less.
是的，她仍然在净化，仍然在限制，但是少得多。
She just knew that she didn't need those behaviors as coping strategies anymore.
她只知道她不再需要这些行为作为应对策略。
She developed others.
她发展了其他人。
She started writing, finding her own voice.
她开始写作，寻找自己的声音。
That was a few years ago.
那是几年前的事了。
She describes where she is now as recovered.
她描述了她现在康复的情况。
How does the reality of feeling recovered-- how does it compare with what you imagined?
感觉的现实如何恢复——与你想象的相比如何？
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
It feels like there's not that weight constantly.
感觉好像一直没有那么重。
And while I would say I'm definitely a far distance from peace-- it's another one of the woo-woo words for me-- but I feel good.
虽然我想说我离和平还很远——这对我来说是另一个令人兴奋的词——但我感觉很好。
I feel--
我觉得——
She feels more present, more able to focus, more able to feel her feelings and to tolerate the uncomfortable ones.
她感觉更活在当下，更能集中注意力，更能感受自己的感受并容忍不舒服的感觉。
These are all things I hope for, like, precisely.
这些都是我所希望的，确切地说。
I asked her about something that might sound weird if you've never had an eating disorder, but I feel food in my body just intensely.
我问她一些如果你从未患有饮食失调症的话可能听起来很奇怪的事情，但我强烈地感觉到食物在我的身体里。
Jennette said she understood 1,000% what I meant by this.
珍妮特说她 1000% 明白我的意思。
And she said that's gone now too.
她说现在也消失了。
It's like I'm more in tune with my body--
就好像我更能适应自己的身体了——
Yeah.
是的。
Jennette McCurdy --but less aware of those types of things.
Jennette McCurdy——但不太了解这些类型的事情。
Talking to Jennette, it made me think of a term I'd come across in the research I'd done about the definition of recovery-- indistinguishable, as in a person can recover so fully from an eating disorder that they become indistinguishable from someone who's never had one.
与詹妮特交谈时，这让我想起了我在关于恢复定义的研究中遇到的一个术语——难以区分，因为一个人可以从饮食失调中完全恢复，以至于他们与从未患过饮食失调的人没有区别。
It sounded almost sci-fi, like we erase your eating disorder, but also your old identity-- not even something I would want, but also something I instantly wanted.
这听起来几乎是科幻小说，就像我们消除了你的饮食失调，同时也消除了你的旧身份——甚至不是我想要的东西，但也是我立即想要的东西。
I thought I'd try out "indistinguishable" on Jennette, see if it resonated.
我想我应该在詹妮特身上尝试一下“难以区分”，看看是否能引起共鸣。
There's no difference from them and somebody who's never had an eating disorder.
他们和从未患过饮食失调症的人没有什么区别。
Their brain is indistinguishable--
他们的大脑是无法区分的——
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Susan Burton But so does that-- so it sounds like that is appealing to you.
苏珊·伯顿：但是那也是——所以听起来这对你很有吸引力。
Is that what you feel like?
你是这样的感觉吗？
Do you feel indistinguishable from somebody who's never had an eating disorder?
您是否觉得自己与从未患过饮食失调症的人没有什么区别？
That's hugely appealing.
这非常有吸引力。
I think I'd be lying if I said there wasn't always some awareness of that being my past.
如果我说人们并不总是意识到那是我的过去，我想我是在撒谎。
But I would say that I definitely notice when somebody doesn't have any sort of eating disorder.
但我想说的是，当有人没有任何饮食失调时，我肯定会注意到。
I feel like I can spot them quite easily like, oh, wow, they just are normal is my thought.
我觉得我可以很容易地发现它们，哦，哇，我认为它们很正常。
And I would say I'm as close to that as I can possibly be.
我想说我已经尽可能接近这个目标了。
I have zero food rules.
我有零食物规则。
I eat whatever I want-- breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks-- and I don't think at all about it.
我想吃什么就吃什么——早餐、午餐、晚餐、零食——而且我根本不去想它。
It's almost odd to me when I think about my past.
当我回想起我的过去时，这对我来说几乎是奇怪的。
I've said several times to my partner-- I'll say, I cannot believe that there was a time in my life when that was who I was.
我已经多次对我的伴侣说过——我会说，我不敢相信在我的生命中曾经有一段时间我就是这样的人。
Yeah.
是的。
Jennette McCurdy It's so wild to me.
Jennette McCurdy 这对我来说太疯狂了。
It feels like a different person.
感觉就像是另一个人了。
It feels like-- I mean, it does feel like my brain was wired differently then.
感觉就像——我的意思是，确实感觉我的大脑当时的连接方式有所不同。
I felt hopeful after talking to Jennette, like the freedom she feels, that it was possible for me.
与珍妮特交谈后，我感到充满希望，就像她感受到的自由一样，这对我来说是可能的。
Here was someone who'd thought thoughts like mine, who'd felt feelings in her body like mine, who now had new thoughts and a new experience of her body.
这个人的想法和我的一样，她的身体也有和我一样的感觉，现在她有了新的想法，对自己的身体有了新的体验。
But I've had these thoughts and feelings for a lot longer time.
但我有这些想法和感受已经很长时间了。
I'm 47.
我47岁了。
Jennette just turned 29.
珍妮特刚满 29 岁。
One of the realities of my recovery is just that I've lived with an eating disorder for so many years.
我康复的现实之一是我多年来一直患有饮食失调症。
And I really wanted to talk to someone my own age who'd started recovery in middle age, talk about what it had been like for them.
我真的很想和那些与我同龄、中年开始康复的人谈谈，谈谈他们的经历。
I had someone in mind-- Anissa Gray.
我心里有一个人——阿妮莎·格雷。
Anissa wrote a novel called The Care and Feeding of Ravenously Hungry Girls, which I read last summer and was really affected by.
阿妮莎写了一本小说，名叫《照顾和喂养贪婪饥饿的女孩》，我去年夏天读过这本书，深受其影响。
The novel's protagonist is a Black lesbian in her 40s with an eating disorder, a description that explodes all kinds of stereotypes about who has eating disorders and who gets to tell stories about them.
小说的主角是一位 40 多岁的黑人女同性恋者，患有饮食失调症，这一描述打破了关于谁患有饮食失调症以及谁可以讲述有关饮食失调症的故事的各种刻板印象。
Anissa is in her 50s.
阿妮莎已经 50 多岁了。
Her bingeing and purging started in college.
她的暴食和净化从大学开始。
Like me, she hid her eating disorder from everyone in her life for years.
和我一样，她多年来一直向生活中的每个人隐瞒自己的饮食失调症。
I used to be very careful about not doing certain behaviors at home when someone could hear.
我过去常常非常小心，不要在家里有人能听到的情况下做出某些行为。
But my wife heard me in the bathroom at one point, and that was when the shoe dropped.
但我妻子有一次在浴室里听到了我的声音，就在那时，鞋子掉了下来。
Anissa agreed to get help, but only because her wife wanted her to.
阿妮莎同意寻求帮助，但这只是因为她的妻子希望她这样做。
They live outside Atlanta.
他们住在亚特兰大郊外。
Anissa found an eating disorder center there.
阿妮莎在那里找到了一个饮食失调中心。
She showed up for her first group therapy session straight from a three-hour workout and a binge and purge.
经过三小时的锻炼、暴饮暴食和净化后，她直接参加了第一次团体治疗。
And one of the things I noticed immediately upon walking in was that, A, I was the only Black person in the room.
我走进去后立即注意到的一件事是，A，我是房间里唯一的黑人。
I'm not unfamiliar with that scenario.
我对那个场景并不陌生。
That's essentially been the case for me most, if not all, of my life.
对我来说，在我一生中的大部分时间（如果不是全部的话）基本上都是这样。
So that was fine.
所以那很好。
But I was really struck by how young the women were in the group.
但令我震惊的是，这个团体中的女性如此年轻。
Mostly college age and 20s, one around 40 like Anissa was then.
大部分都是大学生，20 多岁，其中有一个像 Anissa 那样 40 岁左右。
They were the oldest ones.
他们是最年长的。
So for those of us who have had this history of eating disorders that's lasted for decades instead of for several years, it's different.
因此，对于我们这些有持续几十年而不是几年的饮食失调史的人来说，这是不同的。
The neural pathways are just so much-- the grooves are so much deeper at this age.
在这个年龄段，神经通路太多了——凹槽更深了。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Susan Burton I think back to some adolescent diary entries I would be scrawling after a binge.
苏珊·伯顿（Susan Burton） 我回想起在暴饮暴食后我会潦草写下的一些青春期日记。
And this has been a part of my life for two years.
两年来，这已经成为我生活的一部分。
I've lost two years to this.
我为此损失了两年的时间。
And my god, I didn't know how many more years.
天哪，我不知道还有多少年。
Is this something you've thought about?
这是你想过的事情吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And I think there's something for women sort of in our cohort perhaps not to have sought treatment early.
我认为我们这个群体中的女性可能没有尽早寻求治疗，这可能是有原因的。
And that's why I think it's so important for older women to talk about it.
这就是为什么我认为老年女性谈论这个问题如此重要。
When I was out on tour, I met so many women-- 40s, and 50s, and 60s-- who had struggled for just years and years and were finally trying to get well.
当我出去巡演时，我遇到了很多女性——40 多岁、50 多岁、60 多岁——她们挣扎了很多年，终于努力康复。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, same.
我的意思是，一样。
Whenever I get a note from a woman-- 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s-- it's always somebody who struggled for years.
每当我收到一位女性（40 多岁、50 多岁、60 多岁，甚至 70 多岁）的留言时，她总是经历了多年的奋斗。
And I have thought the exact same thing as you, that there's something about our contemporaries where we didn't seek treatment early.
我和你的想法完全一样，我们同时代的人有些地方没有尽早寻求治疗。
And then part of me started wondering, is it some kind of Gen X latchkey kid thing--
然后我开始想，这是否是某种 X 世代的钥匙孩子的东西——
I didn't know anything about Anissa's own recovery beyond that she had more of it under her belt than I do.
我对安妮莎自己的康复一无所知，只知道她比我掌握的更多。
10 years into it, she doesn't feel totally free.
十年过去了，她并没有感到完全自由。
It wasn't what she expected at the beginning.
这并不是她一开始所预料的。
I thought that there would be an end, that I would reach this place where I didn't have these thoughts anymore, I did not have these urges anymore, and I would be, quote unquote, "normal." I would have a very healthy relationship with food.
我以为会有一个结局，我会到达这个地方，我不再有这些想法，我不再有这些冲动，我会，引用不引用，“正常”。我会与食物建立非常健康的关系。
I have a better relationship with food for sure, but I don't know if I will ever be, quote unquote, "normal" when it comes to food and exercise.
我确实与食物有更好的关系，但我不知道在食物和锻炼方面我是否会成为“正常”。
Yeah.
是的。
Anissa Gray I mean, there was disappointment in realizing, OK, this is going to be with me.
Anissa Gray 我的意思是，我很失望地意识到，好吧，这将伴随着我。
But there's also a sense of accomplishment and resilience that I have.
但我也有一种成就感和韧性。
I know what life used to be like for me, and I know what it is now.
我知道我过去的生活是什么样子，我也知道现在的生活是什么样子。
So it's easier, but I just have to be vigilant and careful.
所以这更容易，但我必须保持警惕和小心。
So if at the beginning of treatment you're imagining that there will be an end and you'll reach a place where you don't have the thoughts anymore, and then there's kind of a stage where you're disappointed to realize, OK, this is going to be with me-- I'm curious about this as someone who wonders if this will be where I wind up too.
因此，如果在治疗开始时，你想象会有一个结束，你会到达一个不再有想法的地方，然后到了一个阶段，你失望地意识到，好吧，这将伴随着我——我对此很好奇，因为我想知道这是否也会是我最终的结局。
And so I'm wondering something that might be hard to answer, but I'm just wondering how you knew that and when you knew that.
所以我想知道一些可能很难回答的问题，但我只是想知道你是如何知道的以及何时知道的。
I think it was somewhat evolutionary.
我认为这在某种程度上是进化的。
I ended treatment with still some of the thoughts, and I was much better at managing them.
我结束治疗时仍然有一些想法，而且我更擅长管理它们。
But as time went on I did start to wonder, OK, so is this just how I'm going to be?
但随着时间的推移，我确实开始想，好吧，这就是我会成为的样子吗？
I thought it would sort of work itself out as I went on.
我以为随着我的继续，事情会自行解决。
And so far it hasn't.
到目前为止还没有。
On the positive side, the thoughts are much fewer.
从积极的一面来看，想法要少得多。
The compulsions are nothing compared to the way I started out.
与我刚开始的方式相比，这些强迫症根本不算什么。
Anissa says that one thing that was important to her in this process was watching a friend get sober.
阿妮莎说，在这个过程中对她来说最重要的一件事就是看着朋友清醒。
In sobriety, for many people, the idea is that you're never recovered, always in recovery.
对于很多人来说，清醒的时候，他们的想法是你永远不会康复，永远处于康复之中。
It's a process that's always ongoing, that never ends, as Anissa saw with her friend.
正如安妮莎和她的朋友所看到的那样，这是一个永远持续、永无止境的过程。
I think it was through that and sort of watching her manage and watching her understand that this is going to be-- this is an ongoing thing for me.
我认为正是通过这一点，看着她的管理，看着她明白这将是——这对我来说是一件持续的事情。
Her peace with that, I think, was really helpful for me to sort of get some peace with myself, to not feel so tortured about it, to not feel like, oh, woe is me.
我认为，她对此的平静确实对我有帮助，让我能够与自己平静下来，不为此感到如此痛苦，不觉得，哦，我真是不幸。
This is the cross I have to bear.
这就是我必须背负的十字架。
You can live life, and you can be happy.
你可以生活，你可以快乐。
You just have your thing.
你只是有你的东西。
Maybe there is some point where I'll just be fine, but I don't see-- but I'm also OK with that.
也许在某些时候我会没事，但我不明白——但我也同意这一点。
Talking to Anissa about being OK with an ongoing thing, it helped me imagine how I might feel in the future.
与阿妮莎谈论对正在进行的事情感到满意，这帮助我想象了我未来的感受。
What I want, it's simple.
我想要的，很简单。
Like if my son were to come into the kitchen and ask me to come to the garden while I was making food, I'd have a reaction like, oh, I'm about to eat something, but I'll come out when I'm through.
就像如果我儿子在我做饭时走进厨房并邀请我到花园里去，我的反应会是，哦，我要吃点东西，但吃完后我会出来。
Do you want to sit with me while I eat, and then we can go out together?
我吃饭的时候你愿意和我坐在一起吗？然后我们可以一起出去吗？
And when we went outside to the garden, I would just be in my body.
当我们走到外面的花园时，我就沉浸在自己的身体里。
I wouldn't feel my flesh.
我不会感觉到我的肉体。
And if my neighbor came over I would wave and chat, and not feel fake or terrified.
如果我的邻居过来，我会挥手聊天，不会感到虚假或害怕。
There would just be an ease.
只会有一种轻松。
And if something did rise up, some spikiness, some fear, some urge to reach for food or to reject it, I'd be able to handle it.
如果确实出现了一些事情，一些尖酸刻薄，一些恐惧，一些想要伸手去拿食物或拒绝食物的冲动，我能够处理它。
And if, despite my best efforts, I submitted to it, I'd be able to tolerate the disappointment.
如果尽管我尽了最大的努力，我还是屈服了，我就能忍受失望。
I don't know if that would feel like recovery to me.
我不知道这对我来说是不是一种康复的感觉。
I don't think I can know until I get there.
我想直到我到达那里我才能知道。
But I think it would feel like sturdiness.
但我认为这会让人感觉很坚固。
Susan Burton, she's an editor on our program.
苏珊·伯顿，她是我们节目的编辑。
Her memoir about her eating disorder is called Empty.
她关于饮食失调的回忆录名为《空》。
Coming up, people in bars ask a question that Dr. Fauci has not weighed in on yet-- which COVID vaccine is the most likely to get somebody to make out with you?
接下来，酒吧里的人们会问一个福奇博士尚未考虑过的问题——哪种新冠疫苗最有可能让人们和你亲热？
That's in a minute on Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台稍后将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "The Thing I'm Getting Over," stories of people who are in the middle of changing their lives, figuring out the puzzle of exactly how they're going to get from where they were to where they're heading.
今天的节目“我正在克服的事情”讲述了那些正在改变生活的人们的故事，他们正在弄清楚他们将如何从原来的位置到达目的地的谜题。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, Shot Girl Summer in the City.
第二幕，拍摄女孩在城市的夏天。
So this past spring when more and more people started getting their COVID vaccines, this phrase kept popping up when people talked about the country getting back on its feet.
因此，今年春天，当越来越多的人开始接种新冠疫苗时，当人们谈论国家重新站稳脚跟时，这句话不断出现。
What does this mean, the hot vax summer?
炎热的夏季意味着什么？
America is vaxed and waxed.
美国已经打蜡了。
Hot girl summer is now shot girl summer.
炎热的女孩夏天现在是拍摄女孩夏天。
Hot vax summer in the city.
城市里炎热的夏季。
Ira Glass Shot girl summer-- it's the idea that, this summer, people who got the shots and have all this pent-up energy from over a year of isolation will be out there hooking up like never before.
Ira Glass Shot Girl Summer——这个想法是，今年夏天，那些接受了注射并在一年多的隔离中拥有所有被压抑能量的人们将以前所未有的方式在一起。
It all got started as a Twitter joke and ended up as something they were actually covering on local news.
这一切一开始只是推特上的一个笑话，最后却成为了当地新闻的实际报道。
And I think it got all this attention because it is a very understandable way to measure how far the country has come in its recovery from COVID.
我认为它之所以受到如此多的关注，是因为这是一种非常容易理解的方式来衡量该国从新冠疫情中恢复的程度。
But you know, what's reality here?
但你知道，这里的现实是什么？
What is shot girl summer like, really, for the people living it?
对于生活在其中的人们来说，拍摄女孩的夏天到底是什么样的？
Elna Baker looked into that.
埃尔娜·贝克对此进行了调查。
Quick warning, if you're listening with kids-- there's nothing explicit in this story at all, but it does acknowledge that sex exists and is a thing between adults.
快速警告，如果你正在和孩子们一起听——这个故事根本没有任何明确的内容，但它确实承认性的存在，并且是成年人之间的事情。
Here's Elna.
这是艾尔娜。
I've heard this summer compared to the Roaring '20s or the '60s Summer of Love.
我听说这个夏天与咆哮的 20 年代或 60 年代的爱情之夏相比较。
I've read articles about people making out in the streets.
我读过关于人们在街上亲热的文章。
I've seen the viral picture of a condom shelf at Walgreens in New York City that is so empty it looks like it's been raided.
我在网上疯传了纽约市沃尔格林药店安全套货架的照片，里面空空如也，看起来就像遭到了突袭。
And I've heard waxing salons were booming with lots of people prepping to be naked in front of one another for the first time in 15 months.
我听说脱毛沙龙正在蓬勃发展，许多人 15 个月来第一次准备在彼此面前裸体。
So I decided to stop by a salon, Sugaring New York City.
所以我决定去一家沙龙“Sugaring New York City”。
I talked to a waxer named Parminder, who said, yeah, this is true.
我和一位名叫帕明德的打蜡师交谈过，他说，是的，这是真的。
Oh, yeah, definitely.
哦，是的，当然。
Sometimes it's so busy that you don't even get a break to even have a snack in between.
有时太忙了，甚至连吃点零食的时间都没有。
You're running in and out, clients like in and out throughout the room.
你跑进跑出，客户喜欢在整个房间里进进出出。
And it's good because the day goes by faster.
这很好，因为日子过得更快。
But that's one of the things I witnessed in the lobby, the urgency.
但这就是我在大厅目睹的事情之一：紧迫性。
This woman was trying to make an appointment, and she was like, no, I have to.
这位女士试图预约，但她说，不，我必须预约。
I have to.
我必须。
You guys are like-- it's like the doors are being knocked down right now.
你们就像——就像现在门被推倒了。
Why?
为什么？
Why is the urgency so big right now?
为什么现在的紧迫性如此之大？
And the hype is specifically about sex this summer, right?
今年夏天的炒作专门针对性，对吧？
Exactly.
确切地。
Elna Baker This is another waxer I spoke to, Corina.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 这是我采访过的另一位脱毛师，科琳娜 (Corina)。
Especially with the Brazilians, yeah.
尤其是对巴西人来说，是的。
I've had numerous people say, I'm getting this Brazilian for a shot girl summer.
很多人都对我说，我要买这个巴西人来度过一个射击女孩的夏天。
The staff at a cafe and bar on the Bowery called Short Stories confirmed the trend with the most television-ready quotes I've ever heard.
包厘街一家名为 Short Stories 的咖啡馆和酒吧的工作人员用我听过的最适合电视的台词证实了这一趋势。
Are people acting bolder and hornier this summer?
今年夏天，人们是否表现得更加大胆、更加饥渴？
On a level that we thought not possible since the inception of the internet, since the newspaper and the printing press went into effect.
自从互联网诞生、报纸和印刷机出现以来，我们认为这是不可能的。
It's been unprecedented, to say the very least.
至少可以说，这是前所未有的。
The amount of bleach that we use in the bathroom is probably at an astronomically all-time high.
我们在浴室中使用的漂白剂的量可能达到了历史最高水平。
I'm waiting to restock the bathroom, make sure everything's OK.
我正在等待给浴室补充物资，确保一切正常。
And it's kind of like, OK, well, there's a couple of people coming out all at the same time, and belts aren't on, which is interesting because our lost and found is currently filled with pants.
有点像，好吧，好吧，有几个人同时出来，而且没有系安全带，这很有趣，因为我们的失物招领处目前装满了裤子。
I don't know-- I've never seen this happen.
我不知道——我从未见过这种情况发生。
I've got skirts.
我有裙子。
I've got shorts.
我有短裤。
Is this is true?
这是真的吗？
Tom This is true.
汤姆 这是真的。
When was the last time you went somewhere and lost your pants?
你最后一次去某个地方丢掉裤子是什么时候？
For the record, six years ago, my friend Ayesha's birthday.
郑重声明，六年前，是我朋友阿耶莎的生日。
Joey, the beverage director, has been watching people try to get back in the game.
饮料总监乔伊一直在观察人们试图重返游戏。
One of the things she notices is how quickly people cut to the chase.
她注意到的一件事是人们切入正题的速度有多快。
The most common pickup line, which vaccine do you have?
最常见的接送线，你打的是哪一种疫苗？
It's the new "Do you come here often?" Yeah.
这是新的“你经常来这里吗？”是的。
So Pfizer, Moderna, you know?
那么辉瑞、Moderna，你知道吗？
It's a club.
这是一个俱乐部。
It's a club.
这是一个俱乐部。
It's incredible.
太不可思议了。
God, that's so boring.
天哪，这太无聊了。
That's such a boring opener.
这真是一个无聊的开场白。
It's completely vapid, it's so boring, and it does the trick.
它完全是无趣的、无聊的，但它却起到了作用。
People at the bars did seem to have a lot of vaccine brand loyalty.
酒吧里的人们似乎确实对疫苗品牌有很高的忠诚度。
One woman told me she had Moderna, which she liked best because when you say "I'm Moderna," it sounds like you're saying "I'm a modern woman."
一位女士告诉我她有 Moderna，她最喜欢它，因为当你说“我是 Moderna”时，听起来就像你在说“我是一个现代女性”。
What are your shots?
你的镜头是什么？
Woman 1 I am a Pfizer girl.
女人 1 我是辉瑞女孩。
I spent a couple nights outside of bars talking to dozens of people, looking for evidence that hookups are on the rise, asking for stories.
我花了几个晚上在酒吧外与数十人交谈，寻找勾搭正在增加的证据，询问故事。
And I have breaking news for everyone-- shot girl summer is a sham.
我有一个重大消息要告诉大家——《枪杀女孩夏天》是个骗局。
It's one of the oldest lies in the book, straight out of a high school locker room-- lots of people talking about having sex, but no actual sex.
这是书中最古老的谎言之一，直接来自高中更衣室——很多人谈论性行为，但没有真正的性行为。
Everyone's been horny for months.
几个月以来，每个人都饥渴难耐。
Now is the time everyone's unleashing.
现在是大家释放的时候了。
If you're not getting laid, something's been majorly wrong.
如果你没有上床，那就是出了大问题。
Are you getting laid?
你要上床了吗？
Woman I have a boyfriend, so yeah.
女人，我有男朋友了，所以是的。
Friends, that's not a thing.
朋友们，这不是一回事。
Having sex in a long-term partnership is not the post-pandemic bacchanalian free for all we've all been hearing about.
正如我们所听说的那样，长期伴侣关系中的性行为并不是大流行后的免费狂欢。
Are you having lots of hookups this summer?
今年夏天你有很多勾搭吗？
No. Maybe people are [BLEEP] more than they were, but--
不。也许人们比以前更[BLEEP]，但是——
One night, a friend and I were out at a hookah bar, talking about how none of the single people we know are hooking up during shot girl summer.
一天晚上，我和一位朋友在水烟酒吧里，谈论我们认识的单身人士中没有一个人在枪手女孩的夏天勾搭的。
We named names.
我们点了名字。
It was a long list.
这是一个很长的清单。
We turned to the table next to us, a bunch of attractive 20-somethings dressed for a night out, and I explained I have this theory that everyone is saying we're all having casual sex right now, but nobody actually is.
我们转向旁边的桌子，一群有吸引力的 20 多岁的人穿着打扮去过夜，我解释说我有这样的理论，每个人都在说我们现在都在发生随意性行为，但实际上没有人这样做。
Is this true?
这是真的吗？
They told me no, I was dead wrong.
他们告诉我不，我完全错了。
This summer is wild.
这个夏天很狂野。
This is the summer to be single in New York.
这是纽约单身的夏天。
They've been going crazy.
他们已经疯了。
And I was like, oh, OK.
我当时想，哦，好吧。
So you guys are having sex?
所以你们在发生性关系吗？
One by one they each said no, no, no. I started recording.
他们一一说不，不，不。我开始录音。
--used to be before.
——以前是这样。
Elna Baker Yeah, but I feel like we just cracked some case where everyone is saying everyone is [BLEEP].
Elna Baker 是的，但我觉得我们刚刚破获了一些案例，每个人都在说每个人都是[BLEEP]。
And what we've discovered is no one is [BLEEP].
我们发现没有人[BLEEP]。
I think that's the intention of the people.
我认为这就是人们的意图。
Everybody wants to [BLEEP].
每个人都想[BLEEP]。
They just forgot how to do it and how to start a conversation with a stranger.
他们只是忘记了如何去做以及如何与陌生人开始对话。
Going to feel I'm weird or think I'm weird, or whatever.
会觉得我很奇怪或者认为我很奇怪，或者其他什么。
But are we going to break that ice?
但我们要打破这种坚冰吗？
They'd be like, yeah, who cares?
他们会说，是啊，谁在乎呢？
So in theory-- Woman In theory, that's the plan.
所以从理论上来说—— 女人 从理论上来说，这就是计划。
And practically, we have to figure it out.
实际上，我们必须弄清楚这一点。
Of all my friends, if anyone was having a shot girl summer, as in hooking up, there's one that had to be.
在我所有的朋友中，如果有人正在享受一个女孩夏天，比如勾搭，那么一定有一个。
Her name is Mads.
她的名字叫麦兹。
She's 25.
她25岁了。
She goes out almost every night, travels in a pack of single girls.
她几乎每天晚上都出去，和一群单身女孩一起旅行。
I asked her if this is the summer of hookups for her or any of her friends.
我问她，这是否是她或她的朋友们勾搭的夏天。
We're going out together.
我们要一起出去。
We're trying to have sex.
我们正在尝试做爱。
We're trying to have a good time.
我们正在努力享受美好时光。
But none of us are finding anything.
但我们谁都没有发现任何东西。
Because all that bartenders-- I talk to bartenders.
因为所有调酒师——我都和调酒师交谈。
I talk to people who work in waxing salons.
我和在脱毛沙龙工作的人交谈过。
I talk to people doing all the prep work to get people sex ready or whatever.
我和那些做所有准备工作的人交谈，让人们做好性准备之类的事情。
And they're all like, yeah, people are like-- they're boning.
他们都说，是的，人们就像——他们很骨感。
It's wild.
它很狂野。
But then as far as they know, that's what people are doing, because people leave the bar together.
但据他们所知，这就是人们正在做的事情，因为人们一起离开酒吧。
But in reality, what you're seeing is--
但事实上，你看到的是——
So if no one's having sex, what is even just-- help me understand the transaction.
因此，如果没有人发生性行为，那甚至只是——帮助我理解这笔交易。
Like, what happens when you meet someone?
比如，当你遇到某人时会发生什么？
What goes down?
什么会下降？
There is back and forth banter, teasing.
有来回的戏谑、戏弄。
Then you-- I don't know-- sometimes get drunk and then just start talking about all the things you want to do to one another.
然后你——我不知道——有时会喝醉，然后开始谈论你想做的所有事情。
You get in a cab.
你上了出租车。
You go back to their apartment.
你回到他们的公寓。
And then you're alone with them, and you just want to hug.
然后你独自和他们在一起，你只想拥抱。
And that's on both sides?
而且两边都是这样？
Mads Yeah.
麦兹 是的。
Yeah.
是的。
In fact, I tried to sleep with a few people recently.
事实上，我最近尝试和几个人一起睡觉。
And it was them.
就是他们。
They were not interested.
他们不感兴趣。
It didn't work.
它不起作用。
And they were just like, sorry.
他们只是说，抱歉。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
One of them was like, can I just hold you?
其中一个人问，我可以抱着你吗？
And the other one was like, can I just like take a shower with you, and we can talk?
另一个人说，我可以和你一起洗个澡，然后我们可以谈谈吗？
It's like people really looking for things that make them feel comfortable after this year.
就好像人们真的在寻找能让他们在今年之后感到舒服的东西。
Yeah, we're all flinging ourselves back out into the whirlwind of dating in the city, and we're not equipped at all.
是的，我们都把自己抛回到城市约会的旋风中，而我们根本没有装备。
Why?
为什么？
Mads This last year, I know people who've died from COVID.
麦兹 去年，我认识了一些死于新冠肺炎的人。
I know people who are really sick.
我认识一些病得很重的人。
I lost my job.
我失去了工作。
I went through a breakup.
我经历了分手。
I lost my home and had to move to a new city to move in with my family.
我失去了家，不得不搬到一个新城市与家人一起住。
And now I tried to date normally the way that I used to, but I can't.
现在我尝试像以前那样正常约会，但我做不到。
I feel more raw and honest with myself and with others, but I think that doesn't really result in sexy times.
我对自己和他人感到更加原始和诚实，但我认为这并不能真正带来性感的时光。
This tracks with my experience.
这符合我的经验。
Recently, I went out with this guy whose profile said, I'm just coming out of a long-term monogamous relationship and not looking to get back into one.
最近，我和一个人约会，他的个人资料上写着，我刚刚结束一段长期的一夫一妻制关系，不想再回到这种关系中。
I interpreted this as code for hookups only.
我将此解释为仅用于连接的代码。
But then when we went out, he talked to me for three hours about all the inner reflection the pandemic had led to and how he couldn't be with someone until he sorted out his demons.
但当我们出去时，他和我聊了三个小时，讲述了大流行病导致的所有内心反思，以及在他解决掉内心的恶魔之前他如何无法和某人在一起。
I, in turn, told him how sick I'd gotten, how it took me a full three months to recover.
我反过来告诉他我病得有多严重，我花了整整三个月才康复。
It was sweet, but not as advertised.
它很甜，但不像广告中那样。
I've been out with five other guys since.
从那以后我就和另外五个人出去了。
It starts hot and ends feeling like I've been to a support group.
开始时很热，结束时感觉就像我参加了一个支持小组。
It's confusing.
这很令人困惑。
Mads agrees.
麦兹同意。
You're in the mood, and then you're not, all of a sudden.
你有心情，然后突然就没心情了。
It's weird.
很奇怪。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I can't put my finger on what it is, really.
我真的无法确定它是什么。
I definitely felt like there is a thing inside of me that's-- yeah, there's a sadness inside of me that will be fine.
我确实感觉到我内心有一种东西——是的，我内心有一种悲伤，那会没事的。
I'm good at hiding it.
我很擅长隐藏它。
I'm good at not addressing it.
我擅长不去解决这个问题。
But then when I'm alone with someone in this intimate setting, it flares up inside of me, and something flares up inside of them too.
但当我和某人在这种亲密的环境中独处时，我的内心就会燃起某种东西，他们的内心也会燃起某种东西。
I used to worry that the things that I had been through, my traumas and sadnesses, ruined me for other people, just people who wanted to have fun or were cool and nice.
我曾经担心我所经历的事情，我的创伤和悲伤，会毁了我对其他人来说，只是那些想要玩得开心或很酷和友善的人。
In a way, it's kind of lovely to feel like, oh, I see this in everyone now.
在某种程度上，感觉很可爱，哦，我现在在每个人身上都看到了这一点。
I thought it would be a sign of recovery if people were moving on, cutting loose, leaving the past year behind.
我认为，如果人们继续前进，摆脱过去的一年，这将是复苏的迹象。
But instead, it seemed like they felt very aware of what they've been through, what everyone is feeling.
但相反，他们似乎非常了解自己所经历的事情以及每个人的感受。
That decision to not look away, to embrace the sadness, that's a sign of recovery too.
决定不再移开视线，拥抱悲伤，这也是康复的标志。
Today's program was produced by Lilly Sullivan and Susan Burton.
今天的节目由莉莉·沙利文和苏珊·伯顿制作。
The people who put together today's show include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Sean Cole, Noor Gill, Damien Graef, Chana Jaffe-Walt, Beth Lake, Mary Marge Locker, Tobin Low, Miki Meek, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Ari Saperstein, Alissa Shipp, Jessica Suriano, Christopher Swetala, Chloee Weiner, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Sean Cole、Noor Gill、Damien Graef、Chana Jaffe-Walt、Beth Lake、Mary Marge Locker、Tobin Low、Miki Meek、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Ari Saperstein、Alissa Shipp、Jessica Suriano、Christopher Swetala、Chloee Weiner 和 Diane吴。
Managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman.
总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Anna Barone-Cone, Andrea LaMarre, and Ashwin Deshmukh.
今天特别感谢 Anna Barone-Cone、Andrea LaMarre 和 Ashwin Deshmukh。
If you want to see the videos that Chase Friedman made of kicking his friend in the nethers, and the Rocky steps, and giving the finger, and other stuff, they're at his TikTok account.
如果你想看蔡斯·弗里德曼 (Chase Friedman) 制作的踢他朋友下体、洛基步、竖中指等视频，可以访问他的 TikTok 帐户。
His handle there is @chasegetsbetter, all one word, or on Instagram, he is @chaseunfiltered.
他的账号是@chasegetsbetter，只有一个词，或者在 Instagram 上，他是@chaseunfiltered。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, you can stream our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free.
在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上，您可以完全免费地观看我们的 700 多集档案。
Also, there's videos and lists of favorite shows for your summer car trip listening and tons of other stuff there too.
此外，还有适合您夏季汽车旅行收听的最喜欢的节目的视频和列表，以及大量其他内容。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He is the worst person to tell a joke to.
他是最不适合讲笑话的人。
Knock knock.
敲敲。
Who's there?
谁在那里？
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。