740: There. I Fixed It. - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #740 | July 2, 2021 740: There.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 740 集 | 2021年7月2日 740：在那里。
I Fixed It.
我修好了。
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass As long as he could remember, going back to when he was a child, Sam was scared of spiders.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 从他记事起，山姆就很害怕蜘蛛。
But not scared in the normal way, where lots of us don't feel great when we see a big spider, or a snake, or a big bug, or whatever.
但并不是以正常的方式害怕，当我们看到一只大蜘蛛、一条蛇、一只大虫子或其他什么东西时，我们很多人都会感觉不舒服。
It invaded all aspects of my life at all points in the year.
它在一年中的各个时刻侵入了我生活的各个方面。
I was thinking about spiders all the time.
我一直在思考蜘蛛。
Any room I walked into, I looked in the corners.
我走进任何一个房间，都会观察角落。
I looked under the table, crouched down.
我蹲下身子，看了看桌子底下。
Every night before I went to bed, I fully unmade my bed.
每天晚上睡觉前，我都会把床铺彻底清理干净。
Walking down the street, I wouldn't walk under anything that-- I would try to avoid right angles to the best I could, because that's where a spider is going to make its web.
走在街上，我不会走在任何东西下面——我会尽力避免直角，因为那是蜘蛛结网的地方。
But you were scared that one would fall on you?
但你害怕有人会掉到你身上吗？
Or just because that's where they are?
或者只是因为那是他们所在的地方？
Whether or not it would fall on me was really irrelevant.
是否会落在我身上真的无关紧要。
Just seeing a spider, not moving, moving, large, small, it just created a feeling in my body that was just-- I would shake.
只要看到一只蜘蛛，一动不动，一动一动，无论大的还是小的，它只会在我的身体里产生一种感觉——我会颤抖。
I would throw up.
我会呕吐。
I would faint.
我会晕倒的。
And of course, if you're constantly going through your life looking for spiders, you'll find one.
当然，如果您一生都在寻找蜘蛛，您就会找到一只。
As a kid, he didn't do sleepovers, didn't do summer camp.
小时候，他不过夜，也不参加夏令营。
Other kids made fun of him.
其他孩子取笑他。
People did not understand.
人们不明白。
People pitied him.
人们可怜他。
And when he grew up, it did not go away.
而当他长大后，这种感觉并没有消失。
His fear ruined dates.
他的恐惧毁掉了约会。
He once found a spider the size of your thumbnail in his car and sold the car that day.
有一次，他在车里发现了一只指甲盖大小的蜘蛛，并于当天卖掉了车。
I had went to psychiatrists for exposure therapy.
我曾去看精神科医生进行暴露疗法。
I had went to psychiatrists to talk about it.
我曾去找精神科医生讨论过这个问题。
I couldn't watch an image of a spider on a TV screen.
我无法在电视屏幕上看到蜘蛛的图像。
Let me ask you, does this name mean anything to you?
我问你，这个名字对你来说有什么意义吗？
No, absolutely not.
不，绝对不是。
I don't even know if Spider Man has anything to do with spiders, to be honest.
老实说，我什至不知道蜘蛛侠是否与蜘蛛有关。
And then, he was seeing a hypnotherapist, and it was going nowhere, when he read in The New York Times about this new treatment for phobias that can get full results in just one day.
然后，当他在《纽约时报》上读到这种治疗恐惧症的新疗法可以在一天内获得全部结果时，他正在去看催眠治疗师，但毫无进展。
And he reached out to the doctor behind it, a psychologist, Dr. Merel Kindt in Amsterdam.
他联系了这件事背后的医生、阿姆斯特丹的心理学家梅雷尔·金特博士。
And she invited him to be part of a study and get the treatment.
她邀请他参与一项研究并接受治疗。
He figured he had nothing to lose and flew to The Netherlands.
他认为自己没有什么可失去的，于是飞往荷兰。
A film crew captured what happened during his treatment for a documentary series called A Cure for Fear.
摄制组拍摄了他接受治疗期间发生的事情，拍摄了一部名为《治愈恐惧》的纪录片系列。
Yeah, it's OK.
是的，没关系。
Ira Glass Sam and Dr. Kindt stand outside the door of her room.
艾拉·格拉斯·萨姆和金特博士站在她的房间门外。
She opens it.
她打开它。
He looks in.
他往里看。
There's an aquarium with a brown, furry tarantula, maybe 4 or 5 inches in size.
有一个水族箱，里面有一只棕色、毛茸茸的狼蛛，大约有 4 或 5 英寸大小。
Yes, there's a spider in the tank.
是的，水箱里有一只蜘蛛。
But let's not wait too long.
但我们不要等太久。
So it would be very good if you can already walk in the room, and then I close the door.
因此，如果您已经可以走进房间，然后我关上门，那就太好了。
Very good, great.
很好，很棒。
We're doing very well.
我们做得很好。
I think you can hear that I was breathing hard, and I'm feeling that there is adrenaline.
我想你能听到我呼吸困难，而且我感觉到肾上腺素在分泌。
I crouch down, my arms crossed.
我蹲下来，双臂交叉。
Dr. Kindt then opens the door of the tank.
然后金特博士打开水箱的门。
Oh, whoa, god.
哦，哇，天哪。
No, no, no, you're not going to make me look in there, are you?
不，不，不，你不会让我往里面看吧？
Yes, I'm going to ask you.
是的，我要问你。
Sam [HYPERVENTILATING]
萨姆 [过度换气]
So please come with me.
所以请跟我来。
So step in here, and then close it.
所以进入这里，然后关闭它。
Very good.
非常好。
And then, can you also--
然后，你也可以——
Oh god!
天啊！
Merel Kindt Very good, very good.
梅雷尔·金特 非常好，非常好。
Yeah, come.
是的，来吧。
And--
还有——
Then, to get the spider to move around this tank, she sprays it with water.
然后，为了让蜘蛛在水箱周围移动，她向水箱喷水。
And every time she plays it with water, the spider waves its legs or moves around a little.
每次她玩水时，蜘蛛都会挥动腿或稍微移动一下。
Yeah.
是的。
Merel Kindt OK.
梅雷尔·金特 好的。
How high is your distress right now?
你现在的痛苦程度有多高？
OK, but it's very important not to move away.
好的，但是不要离开是非常重要的。
OK, I'm not moving away.
好吧，我不会搬走。
Merel Kindt All right, spray it a bit so that--
Merel Kindt 好吧，喷一点，这样——
Yeah, that's very good.
是的，那很好。
OK.
好的。
Sam [HYPERVENTILATING] I gotta go!
Sam [喘气过度]我得走了！
Sam, I'm wondering, like when you scream like this, I'm wondering what goes through your head.
萨姆，我想知道，就像当你这样尖叫时，我想知道你脑子里在想什么。
That I feel like I can feel it on me, that I'm going to be attacked by it.
我觉得我能感觉到它在我身上，我会受到它的攻击。
None of this is rational, right?
这一切都不合理，对吗？
I know that the thing isn't going to jump out of the tank and move like 4 feet in the air and jump on me.
我知道那东西不会从水箱里跳出来，在空中移动 4 英尺，然后跳到我身上。
I get that.
我明白了。
But it doesn't matter, because I feel that the absolute worst things that can happen are going to happen and are, in fact, happening.
但这并不重要，因为我觉得可能发生的绝对最糟糕的事情将会发生，而且事实上正在发生。
The reason Dr. Kent wants him to max out on anxiety like this is that she wants to trigger the memories and feelings of fear of spiders that are stored in his brain.
肯特博士之所以希望他最大限度地感到焦虑，是因为她想触发他大脑中储存的对蜘蛛的恐惧记忆和感觉。
And then, when his brain goes to store this big new terrible experience with the old ones, it has to re-save the old memories.
然后，当他的大脑将这种新的可怕经历与旧的经历一起存储时，它必须重新保存旧的记忆。
And she gives him a drug, a beta blocker called propranolol, that disrupts that process.
她给了他一种药物，一种叫做普萘洛尔的β受体阻滞剂，可以破坏这个过程。
And I know this sounds so simple.
我知道这听起来很简单。
How can this be real?
这怎么可能是真的呢？
But by disrupting the way that the brain re-saves those memories, she neutralizes them.
但通过破坏大脑重新保存这些记忆的方式，她消除了它们。
The very next day, Sam returns to the same room.
第二天，萨姆回到同一个房间。
He walks right in.
他径直走进去。
His breathing is normal.
他的呼吸正常。
There's fear in that-- well, I don't know that there's fear.
这里面有恐惧——嗯，我不知道有恐惧。
I don't understand my feeling, because I've never been like this before.
我不明白我的感受，因为我以前从来没有这样过。
Nothing physically, internally, was happening that used to happen to.
身体上、内心上没有发生以前发生过的事情。
You didn't feel the fear?
你没有感受到恐惧吗？
Sam I didn't feel the fear.
山姆，我没有感到恐惧。
And when she said--
当她说——
No adrenaline?
没有肾上腺素？
Sam No adrenaline at all.
萨姆 根本没有肾上腺素。
I felt, I guess, excitement that this was new.
我想，我对这是新事物感到兴奋。
Let's make a deal.
我们来做个交易吧。
Sam And I said, look, if you hold my hand, I'll pet the spider.
山姆，我说，看，如果你握住我的手，我会抚摸蜘蛛。
And I did.
我做到了。
And I petted it, and the thing started to move.
我抚摸它，它开始移动。
And then she's like, do you want to pet it again?
然后她说，你想再抚摸它吗？
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
You touched the tarantula!
你碰了狼蛛！
Ira Glass That was over three years ago, and Sam says the effect of the treatment has only deepened as he's had more calm interactions with spiders.
艾拉·格拉斯 那是三年多前的事了，萨姆说，随着他与蜘蛛的互动更加平静，治疗的效果只会加深。
He doesn't look around for spiders anymore everywhere he goes.
他不再到处寻找蜘蛛了。
And remember he once sold a car when he found a spider in it?
还记得他曾经卖掉一辆车，当时他发现车里有一只蜘蛛吗？
He told me that the day before I interviewed him, he was driving in the SUV that he owns today, flipped down the mirror, a spider dropped into his lap.
他告诉我，在我采访他的前一天，他开着自己今天拥有的SUV，翻倒后视镜，一只蜘蛛掉到了他的腿上。
He was going 60.
他快60岁了。
He said if that had happened back in the day, before the treatment, he really might have crashed his car.
他说，如果这件事发生在当天，在治疗之前，他真的可能会撞坏他的车。
But now, he rolled down the window, picked up the spider, threw it outside.
但现在，他摇下车窗，捡起蜘蛛，扔到了外面。
Can you talk about just, like, how extreme the treatment was?
你能谈谈治疗有多极端吗？
I thought at one point I was going to have a heart attack and die in that room.
我一度以为我会心脏病发作并死在那个房间里。
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
[笑]是的。
Does it seem right somehow that you would have to go through something so extreme to get over something so extreme?
你必须经历如此极端的事情才能克服如此极端的事情，这似乎是正确的吗？
It's what had to be done, fighting fire with fire.
这是必须要做的，以毒攻毒。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Radiation therapy, it's your last resort option that you have to deal with a problem that can't be solved in any other way.
[音乐播放] 放射治疗，这是你必须处理无法用任何其他方式解决的问题的最后选择。
This is the nuclear option.
这是核选项。
Well, today, our program, the nuclear option.
好吧，今天我们的计划，核选项。
We have stories where there's a problem, somebody decides to throw the book at it, go big, do everything they can think of.
我们有这样的故事，当出现问题时，有人决定用书来解决这个问题，做大做强，做他们能想到的一切。
And we see what happens as a result to the people that the flying book is aimed at, but also the people it is not aimed at who get hit with it anyway.
我们看到了这本飞书所针对的人会发生什么，但也看到那些不是它所针对的人无论如何都会受到它的打击。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm your friendly neighborhood radio host, Ira Glass.
我是你们友好的邻里电台主持人，艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act 1, "Catching Deer, When You Wanted Lions." So we begin with an example of the United States Congress seeing a problem and then using all its powers, doing everything it can, moving decisively to eliminate the problem forever.
第一幕，“当你想要狮子时，却捕捉鹿”。因此，我们首先举一个例子，美国国会看到了一个问题，然后利用其所有权力，尽其所能，果断采取行动，永远消除这个问题。
The problem they were solving in this case?
在这个案例中他们要解决的问题是什么？
Well, prostitution is illegal in America, but there were millions of ads for it online, some of them advertising women and children who were held by sex traffickers.
嗯，卖淫在美国是非法的，但网上有数以百万计的卖淫广告，其中一些广告是被性贩子劫持的妇女和儿童。
Congress wanted to stop the sex traffickers' ads.
国会希望停止性贩运者的广告。
So that's a goal I think most people would agree with.
所以我认为这是大多数人都会同意的目标。
A law passes with overwhelming majorities, House and Senate.
一项法律以众议院和参议院的压倒性多数通过。
One of our producers, Lina Misitzis has been looking into how things played out from that point-- with the people that the law is supposed to help, victims of sex trafficking, but also with other people who are not the official target of the law.
我们的制片人之一莉娜·米西齐斯（Lina Misitzis）一直在调查从那时起事情的发展情况——与法律应该帮助的人、性贩运的受害者，以及其他不是法律正式目标的人。
We're going to hear the story of one woman who was trafficked, and then you're going to hear the story of the law, and then, after that, the story of how the law actually affected her.
我们将听到一名被贩运妇女的故事，然后您将听到法律的故事，然后是法律如何实际影响她的故事。
Warning to listeners-- there is no explicit content in this story at all, but it does talk about sex and sex trafficking.
警告听众——这个故事根本没有露骨的内容，但它确实谈论了性和性交易。
Here's Lina.
这是莉娜。
When people hear the phrase "sex trafficking," I think a lot of the time, a kind of cartoonish version of it pops up in their heads.
当人们听到“性贩卖”这个词时，我想很多时候，他们的脑海中会浮现出它的卡通版本。
Let me tell you what it meant in Kara's case.
让我告诉你这对卡拉的例子意味着什么。
We'll start in 2006 when she was 17, a runaway in Orlando working at a pizza place.
我们从 2006 年开始，当时她 17 岁，是一名离家出走的奥兰多人，在一家披萨店打工。
She decided to try becoming a stripper, figuring it would be better money, but she really didn't know anything about it.
她决定尝试成为一名脱衣舞娘，认为这样可以赚更多钱，但她对此一无所知。
She had no idea what she was doing.
她不知道自己在做什么。
To prepare for her first shift she went dress shopping, found a prom dress she liked.
为了准备她的第一个轮班，她去买礼服，找到了一件她喜欢的舞会礼服。
Yeah, it was a purple dress.
是的，那是一件紫色的裙子。
I got it from Macy's.
我从梅西百货买的。
Was it like floor length?
就像地板的长度一样吗？
Kara Yeah, it was floor length, and it came right over my knees.
卡拉 是的，它的长度是及地的，刚好到我的膝盖上。
It was a halter top.
那是一件吊带衫。
And I'm just looking, and I see all these girls, and they're in fishnets and clear heels.
我只是看着，我看到所有这些女孩，她们都穿着渔网和透明高跟鞋。
And this was about the time there was a song.
大约在这个时候有一首歌。
It's called "Apple-Bottom Jeans," [LAUGHS] the boots with the fur.
它被称为“苹果底牛仔裤”，[笑]带有毛皮的靴子。
So I kind of just did what I could and jumped on a pole, and I slid down.
所以我就尽我所能，跳到一根杆子上，然后滑了下来。
But it wasn't like a sexy stripper slide.
但这并不像性感的脱衣舞娘滑梯。
It was like holding on for dear life and kind of bouncing down.
这就像为了珍惜生命而坚持，然后又开始反弹。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Kara found her footing soon enough.
卡拉很快就站稳了脚跟。
Actually, she really liked the job.
事实上，她真的很喜欢这份工作。
The tips were good, she made more money than she'd ever made, and she liked the attention she got doing it.
这些小费很好，她赚的钱比以往任何时候都多，而且她喜欢她这样做所得到的关注。
A few months later, another stripper at the club told her about a job in New York that paid even better.
几个月后，俱乐部的另一位脱衣舞娘告诉她在纽约有一份薪水更高的工作。
All she had to do was go out on dates with men.
她所要做的就是和男人出去约会。
Kara understood the job was something called escorting.
卡拉知道这份工作叫做护送。
She did not understand that escorting meant having sex.
她不明白护送就意味着发生性行为。
In any case, she got on a plane-- her very first-- and flew to White Plains, New York.
无论如何，她登上了飞机——这是她的第一架飞机——飞往纽约怀特普莱恩斯。
A guy I'll call Larry paid for her ticket.
一个我称之为拉里的人为她支付了门票费用。
The next morning, he took her on a drive down to Brooklyn.
第二天早上，他带她开车去布鲁克林。
We went to Junior's Cheesecake.
我们去了少年芝士蛋糕。
I'll never forget it.
我永远不会忘记它。
He was trying to explain what escorting was, and I was so, I call it, green, like oblivious, naive to the fact of what it was, that I remember, like, well, how do we get our nails done?
他试图解释什么是护送，而我是如此，我称之为，绿色，就像健忘，天真地意识到它是什么，我记得，就像，好吧，我们如何做指甲？
You know, how much tips do we get to keep, or like, how much money do we get to keep?
你知道，我们能保留多少小费，或者我们能保留多少钱？
And he just laughed.
他只是笑了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Because you're asking the kinds of questions that were relevant like at, like, the strip club, but not necessarily in this.
因为你问的是一些与脱衣舞俱乐部相关的问题，但不一定是在脱衣舞俱乐部。
Yeah, like a tip-out, like what's the tip-out?
是的，就像小费一样，就像小费是什么？
And he just laughed.
他只是笑了。
He knew, no matter what, you know, I was gonna do it.
他知道，无论如何，我都会这么做。
I was 18.
那年我18岁。
Next, Larry took Kara back to a La Quinta Inn.
接下来，拉里带着卡拉回到了拉昆塔旅馆。
He had her pose in her underwear, took pictures he'd later post online in an escorting ad, and then, Larry said, it was time for her first date.
他让她穿着内衣摆出姿势，拍了照片，后来在伴游广告中发布到网上，然后，拉里说，这是她第一次约会的时候了。
What was he telling you the work would actually be?
他告诉你这项工作实际上是什么？
That, basically, I would just be hanging out with people, like I said.
基本上，就像我说的那样，我只会和人们一起出去玩。
He told me that I was going to have a date.
他告诉我，我要去约会。
This is, I'm 18 years old.
这是，我18岁了。
I'm going to have a date.
我要去有个约会。
So I don't know what it is.
所以我不知道它是什么。
I had just smoked some weed, and he left the room.
我刚刚抽了一些大麻，他就离开了房间。
A guy knocks on the door, and I let him in.
一个人敲门，我让他进来。
And when I let him in, he pretty much coaches me through this whole-- like this whole day.
当我让他进来时，他几乎在整个过程中指导我——就像这一整天一样。
And so the money was exchanged.
于是钱就被交换了。
He basically told me where to put the money.
他基本上告诉我把钱放在哪里。
They had sex.
他们发生了性关系。
Later, Kara told me that once it was happening, the first feeling she had was, oh, of course escorting means sex.
后来卡拉告诉我，一旦发生了，她的第一感觉就是，哦，伴游当然就是性。
And she felt shame, like what had she gotten herself into?
她感到羞愧，好像自己陷入了什么困境？
When Kara was a kid, she was sexually abused by a family member and had the courage to come forward about it.
当卡拉还是个孩子的时候，她曾遭到家人的性虐待，但她有勇气挺身而出。
She was in middle school.
她当时正在上中学。
Here at the La Quinta Inn, six years later, she didn't even know who she'd report this to or how to describe what was happening, so she detached.
六年后，在拉昆塔旅馆，她甚至不知道该向谁报告这件事，也不知道如何描述发生的事情，所以她脱离了。
The one thing she remembers clearly is a piece of advice the client gave her that night, which, Kara says, she'd recite in her head whenever seeing any client from then on.
她记得清楚的一件事是客户那天晚上给她的一条建议，卡拉说，从那时起，每当见到任何客户时，她都会在脑海中背诵这条建议。
He was getting ready to leave.
他正准备离开。
And I told him, all right, I'll see you later.
我告诉他，好吧，我稍后见。
And when I said that, he was like, no. You never just let somebody walk out on their own.
当我这么说时，他说，不。你永远不会让某人独自离开。
You always walk them to the door, and you shut the door behind them.
你总是送他们到门口，然后关上他们身后的门。
You never just let somebody just walk out, because anybody could come in after them.
你永远不会让某人就这么走出来，因为任何人都可以在他们之后进来。
You know, they could be holding a door for somebody, whatever.
你知道，他们可能会为某人留一扇门，无论如何。
So I walked him to the door, and I shut the door.
于是我送他到门口，然后关上了门。
And when I shut the door, I broke down.
当我关上门时，我崩溃了。
Later on, I had found out that he was actually one of his homeboys.
后来我才知道，他其实是他的同门弟子。
He was one of his friends.
他是他的朋友之一。
One of Larry's friends.
拉里的朋友之一。
Kara And he had basically sent his friend in to have sex with me and to teach me what to do.
卡拉 他基本上是派他的朋友来和我发生性关系并教我该怎么做。
In the next few weeks, she says, she realized Larry was part of a gang.
她说，在接下来的几周里，她意识到拉里是一个团伙的成员。
When I asked her, how did you figure that out, she laughed, explained, it's not like some big cinematic reveal.
当我问她，你是怎么想出来的时，她笑了，解释道，这不像什么大电影。
Just after that night, the camera started to zoom out.
那天晚上过后，镜头开始拉远。
She met lots of Karas assigned to lots of Larrys.
她遇到了很多被分配给很多拉里的卡拉。
She was just one piece of the assembly line.
她只是装配线上的一员。
I wanted to go home, but I had-- at that point, I couldn't call my family.
我想回家，但那时我无法给家人打电话。
I couldn't call anybody.
我无法给任何人打电话。
I was stuck, and it was basically, all right, you've got to do what you have to do to eventually make it back home.
我被困住了，基本上，好吧，你必须做你必须做的事情才能最终回到家。
I wasn't tied up to a bed.
我没有被绑在床上。
I wasn't drugged.
我没有被下药。
I was just shamed, and I was scared, and I was terrified.
我只是感到羞耻，我很害怕，我很害怕。
And when I found out what I had actually been introduced to, into a whole gang, like the intimidation-- if you go home, then we're going to do this and that-- it just, it stuck me there.
当我发现我实际上被介绍给整个帮派时，比如恐吓——如果你回家，那么我们就会做这做那——它只是把我困在那里。
And that was the beginning of just a whirlwind in my life.
那是我生命中旋风的开始。
From then on, Larry was in charge of what Kara ate, who she had sex with, and where she went.
从那时起，拉里就负责卡拉吃什么、与谁发生性关系以及她去哪里。
She and Larry traveled around the country, strategically targeting places that attract a crowd.
她和拉里走遍了全国，战略性地瞄准了吸引人群的地方。
Were you making pennies on a dollar?
你是用一美元赚几便士吗？
Like were you making any percentage?
比如你赚了多少百分比？
Like you weren't getting to pocket any of this money?
好像你没有把这些钱装进自己的口袋？
No, no. And if you get caught stashing money, oh my gosh, you're getting your ass beat.
不，不。如果你藏匿钱财被抓到，天哪，你就惨遭殴打。
I don't care if it's $20, no.
我不在乎是不是 20 美元，不是。
So if you needed something-- Kara He would let you go to the store, and he would get it for you, or whatever.
所以如果你需要什么东西——卡拉他会让你去商店，他会给你买，或者其他什么。
But what did you really need, other than own food or condoms?
但除了自己的食物或避孕套之外，你真正需要什么？
You know, you get clothes.
你知道，你会得到衣服。
You know, they take you-- you all go as a group, get your nails done, get your hair done.
你知道，他们会带你们一起去，做指甲，做头发。
Did you have friends?
你有朋友吗？
Kara Yeah, you have friends, but they're called your wife-in-laws.
卡拉：是的，你有朋友，但他们被称为你的妻子。
They're other girls that are working.
她们是其他正在工作的女孩。
You don't have normal friends.
你没有正常的朋友。
You completely withdraw and isolate from anything and everybody that you knew.
你完全退出并孤立于你认识的任何人和每个人。
So break it down in layman's terms.
所以用通俗的方式来分解一下。
You're being raped all day, and you're not getting nothing out of it but some nails, or your hair done, or whatever it is to look good for the nice John, client, trick, whatever you want to call him.
你整天都在被强奸，除了一些指甲，或者做头发，或者任何能让好约翰、客户、诡计，无论你想怎么称呼他的东西，看起来好看的东西之外，你什么也得不到。
I asked Kara a lot of what-if questions, naively, about a lot of different scenarios.
我天真地问了卡拉很多假设问题，涉及很多不同的场景。
What if you try just getting up and leaving, taking a day off, getting a boyfriend?
如果你试着起床离开、休息一天、交个男朋友怎么办？
Then what?
然后呢？
And her answer was always the same-- you'd get beat up.
她的回答总是一样的——你会被殴打。
She'd never heard the term "sex trafficking." At that time, a lot of people hadn't, but that's what this was.
她从未听说过“性贩卖”这个词。当时很多人都没有，但事实就是如此。
Kara was being sex trafficked.
卡拉遭到性贩运。
She would be for another seven years.
她还要再呆七年。
Sex trafficking is any time someone is forced or coerced into a sex act where money is exchanged.
性贩运是指某人被迫或胁迫进行性行为以交换金钱。
They could be brought across state lines or international borders, but that doesn't have to be a part of it.
它们可以跨越州界或国际边界，但这不一定是其中的一部分。
While she was being trafficked, Kara had a quota, an amount of money she was supposed to bring in for the gang.
当她被贩运时，卡拉有一个配额，她应该为该团伙带来一定数量的钱。
I had a $1,000 a day quota.
我每天有 1,000 美元的配额。
You had to make $1,000 each day before you could go to sleep.
你必须每天赚到 1,000 美元才能睡觉。
She could bring in $1,000 by saying three clients in a day, each for an hour, or six a day, each for half an hour.
如果她每天接待三个客户，每个客户一小时，或者每天六个客户，每个客户半小时，她就可以赚到 1,000 美元。
The traffickers found clients for Kara by advertising online on Craigslist, and later on a website called Backpage.
人贩子通过在 Craigslist 上以及后来在一个名为 Backpage 的网站上做在线广告为 Kara 找到了客户。
Whenever arriving anywhere new, they'd post a local ad for Kara.
每当到达新的地方时，他们都会在当地张贴卡拉的广告。
It would include photos of her and a short description.
它将包括她的照片和简短的描述。
Guys would see the ads and book appointments.
人们会看到广告并预约。
If the online ads didn't attract enough business, her trafficker would take her to truck stops or bars and have her try picking up clients there.
如果在线广告没有吸引足够的业务，人贩子就会带她去卡车停靠站或酒吧，让她尝试在那里接客户。
Don't get it twisted.
别把它弄歪了。
If you make $1,000 and it's only 12:00 PM, you're not off for the day.
如果您赚了 1,000 美元，而现在只是中午 12:00，那么您今天还没有休息。
You're going to continuously be forced to make more money.
你将不断被迫赚更多的钱。
But the $1,000 was just like, OK, you have to have this every day.
但那 1,000 美元就像，好吧，你必须每天都有这个。
I don't care if it's slow on the lines, go get it.
我不在乎线路是否慢，去拿吧。
Go find it.
去找吧。
Kara said she was traded between gangs three times, which, while she was explaining that, she actually gestured at a tattoo on her chest.
卡拉说，她在帮派之间被交易了三次，当她解释这一点时，她实际上指着自己胸前的纹身。
What is it?
它是什么？
Kara The brand on my chest.
卡拉 我胸前的烙印。
This is-- you see the blood dripping, and it's for the Blood gang.
这是——你看血在滴，这是为了血帮。
It's Sex, Money, Murder.
这是性、金钱、谋杀。
It's a red heart with a spike through it, and the tip of the heart is bleeding.
那是一颗红色的心，上面有一根尖刺贯穿，心的尖端正在流血。
In the center of the heart, there is a person's name.
心脏的中央，有一个人的名字。
That was his actual government name.
那是他真正的政府名称。
I don't want to say that on record.
我不想把这件事记录在案。
Snake eyes.
蛇眼。
Lina Misitzis Snake eyes.
Lina Misitzis 蛇眼。
The name written across the heart belongs to the guy I've been calling Larry, and just below the heart, there's a date.
写在心形上的名字属于我一直叫拉里的那个人，就在心形下方，有一个日期。
December 23, 2007 is when I was brought to him.
2007年12月23日我被带到他那里。
I actually-- it's hard for me to answer that question.
事实上，我很难回答这个问题。
It is a part of me that, when I look at it, it reminds me, at the end of the day, this past that I'm speaking of will always be a part of me.
它是我的一部分，当我看着它时，它提醒我，到最后，我所说的过去将永远是我的一部分。
So I don't know if it's due to my lack of healing, or it's like a part that I haven't let go yet.
所以我不知道是因为我还没有痊愈，还是就像我还没有放下的一部分。
I haven't moved on from it.
我还没有摆脱它。
It's not like because I like looking at it, because I miss it, or-- I guess it's a reminder that it was real.
这并不是因为我喜欢看它，而是因为我想念它，或者——我想这是在提醒我它是真实的。
But if you look in the tattoos, I have razor marks.
但如果你看一下纹身，我有剃刀留下的痕迹。
I would try and cut them out of my own skin.
我会尝试将它们从我自己的皮肤中剔除。
Right there?
就在那里？
Kara Yeah.
卡拉 是的。
I tried to take a razor and cut his name off of me.
我试图拿起剃刀，把他的名字从我身上剪掉。
Lina Misitzis The whole time Kara was being trafficked by these gangs, she kept getting into trouble with the police.
丽娜·米西茨 (Lina Misitzis) 在卡拉被这些团伙拐卖的整个过程中，她不断地惹上警察的麻烦。
She says no cop ever asked her if she needed help.
她说没有警察问过她是否需要帮助。
They didn't see her as a victim.
他们没有将她视为受害者。
They saw her as a criminal.
他们将她视为罪犯。
She says nowadays, the police might ask her if she was being trafficked, but nobody asked her that back then.
她说，现在警察可能会问她是否被拐卖，但当时没有人问她。
Kara says they'd just charge her with solicitation and tell her, that's what you got for being a prostitute.
卡拉说，他们只会指控她拉客，并告诉她，这就是你当妓女的下场。
She'd get a ticket, have to pay a fine.
她会收到罚单，但必须缴纳罚款。
Sometimes she went to jail.
有时她进监狱。
The first time she got in trouble was in 2008, just six months after her 18th birthday.
她第一次遇到麻烦是在 2008 年，当时她 18 岁生日仅六个月后。
And then, again, in 2010, and again, and so on.
然后，再一次，2010 年，再一次，等等。
Altogether, she was charged at least eight times in three different states-- Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.
她在弗吉尼亚州、北卡罗来纳州和佛罗里达州这三个不同的州总共被指控至少八次。
In 2014, she and her trafficker at the time-- I'll call him Adam-- were on a long drive, headed to North Dakota for an oil boom.
2014 年，她和当时的人贩子（我称他为亚当）长途驾车，前往北达科他州寻求石油繁荣。
By then, they'd spent enough time together that he trusted her, let her have a phone.
到那时，他们已经在一起度过了足够的时间，他信任她，让她拥有一部电话。
He'd actually rely on her for help planning their destinations.
他实际上依赖她来帮助规划他们的目的地。
He'd be driving.
他会开车。
She'd be in the front seat, scanning the news for parts of the country with sudden influxes of people.
她会坐在前座，浏览新闻，了解该国一些地区突然涌入的人群。
I mean, that's how you'd figure out what city is going to hit, because--
我的意思是，这就是你如何确定哪个城市将受到袭击，因为——
Wait, so the trafficker or what have you basically, like, project manage the trafficking?
等等，那么贩运者或者你基本上有什么，比如项目管理贩运？
[LAUGHS] So I am-- [LAUGHS] I'm very versatile.
[笑]所以我——[笑]我非常多才多艺。
Yeah.
是的。
There was plenty of time to fill.
有足够的时间来填补。
While she was with Adam, she read the Divergent series on her phone, and The Hunger Games.
当她和亚当在一起时，她在手机上阅读了《分歧者》系列和《饥饿游戏》。
She watched Law and Order, and she read the news.
她看了《法律与秩序》，还读了新闻。
It was on this particular drive that Kara read an article about a woman who had been sex trafficked.
正是在这次特殊的车程中，卡拉读到了一篇关于一名被性贩运的妇女的文章。
Her name was Windie Lazenko.
她的名字叫温迪·拉赞科。
This was the first time Kara had ever seen that term, "sex trafficking," anywhere.
这是卡拉第一次在任何地方看到“性贩卖”这个词。
And suddenly, the last seven years of her life, they weren't different, but her framework for them was.
突然之间，她生命的最后七年，它们并没有什么不同，但她的框架却不同了。
By the time Kara and Adam got to the North Dakota boomtown, they'd posted ads on Backpage.
当卡拉和亚当到达北达科他州的新兴城市时，他们已经在 Backpage 上发布了广告。
It was a Tuesday night, There was a pile of snow outside, and their ads weren't getting any bites.
那是一个星期二的晚上，外面有一堆雪，他们的广告没有受到任何影响。
But she still had to make quota, so Adam sent Kara downstairs to the hotel bar so she could try picking up men the old-fashioned way.
但她仍然需要完成配额，所以亚当把卡拉送到楼下的酒店酒吧，这样她就可以尝试用老式的方式去搭讪男人。
But something had changed, and she just didn't.
但有些事情已经改变了，而她却没有。
She couldn't shake the article she'd read, so she sat at the bar drinking.
她无法摆脱读过的文章，于是她坐在酒吧里喝酒。
I just wanted to go.
我只是想去。
I didn't care if, you know, what happened.
我不在乎，你知道，发生了什么。
I just knew that I had to find a way to get him away from me, because I couldn't get away from him.
我只知道我必须想办法让他离开我，因为我无法离开他。
Kara came up with a plan.
卡拉想出了一个计划。
There at the bar, she called a friend in Florida, said she needed help.
在酒吧里，她打电话给佛罗里达州的一位朋友，说她需要帮助。
She was about to go upstairs, back to her room, to tell Adam that she hadn't made quota.
她正准备上楼，回到自己的房间，告诉亚当她没有完成配额。
She'd leave her phone on with her friend in Florida still listening in.
她会把手机开着，而佛罗里达州的朋友仍在监听。
And not if, but when things turned violent, Kara's friend was to call the local police, pretend to be in the room next door, call in a noise complaint.
不是如果，而是当事情变得暴力时，卡拉的朋友要打电话给当地警察，假装在隔壁房间，打电话投诉噪音。
Kara's entire forecast was spot on.
卡拉的整个预测都是正确的。
She went upstairs, told Adam there was no money.
她上楼告诉亚当没有钱。
He made her strip down naked to prove she wasn't hiding bills anywhere.
他让她脱光衣服，以证明她没有把账单藏在任何地方。
He got violent.
他变得暴力。
He was yelling and hitting her.
他一边大喊大叫，一边打她。
And all of a sudden, there's a knock at the door.
突然，有人敲门。
And I just looked at him.
我只是看着他。
I said, it sounds like the cops.
我说，这听起来像警察。
Let me open the door and tell him I just got out of the shower.
让我打开门并告诉他我刚洗完澡。
Because they weren't going to stop knocking, and he knew that.
因为他们不会停止敲门，他知道这一点。
Kara opened the door.
卡拉打开了门。
Adam was arrested on the spot, and the cops booked him for domestic abuse.
亚当当场被捕，警方以家庭暴力罪对他进行了登记。
For once, a run-in with the cops didn't result in a ticket or a fine for Kara.
这一次，卡拉与警察发生冲突，却没有收到罚单或罚款。
And whatever that felt like for her-- overwhelming, relieving, confusing-- was immediately wiped away by another cop telling Kara that because she was staying in a room that was under Adam's name, she had to leave, on a very cold night in North Dakota with nowhere to go.
无论她感觉如何——压倒性的、如释重负的、困惑的——都立即被另一名警察抹去，她告诉卡拉，因为她住在亚当名下的一个房间里，所以她必须在北达科他州一个非常寒冷的夜晚离开，无处可去。
Then I remembered her.
然后我就想起了她。
I remembered Windie Lazenko.
我记得温迪·拉赞科。
Windie was the trafficking victim that Kara had read about in the car.
温迪是卡拉在车里读到的人口贩卖受害者。
She lived in North Dakota, the same state that Kara was in.
她住在北达科他州，与卡拉所在的州是同一个州。
And I got on the computer in the lobby, and I asked use the hotel phone, and I called her.
我打开大厅的电脑，要求使用酒店电话，然后我给她打了电话。
After that, everything changed, starting with basics.
在那之后，一切都发生了变化，从基础开始。
Windie found Kara a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, food to eat, and a job bartending so she could make a bit of cash.
温迪给卡拉找到了一张床可以睡，有衣服可以穿，有食物可以吃，还有一份调酒的工作，这样她就可以赚点钱了。
Adam pled guilty to domestic abuse, spent a short time in jail.
亚当承认犯有家庭虐待罪，并在监狱里呆了很短一段时间。
Later, they charged him with promoting prostitution.
后来，他们指控他宣扬卖淫。
Then, Kara says, she could have testified against him in court, but she feared for her safety, and so she didn't.
然后，卡拉说，她本来可以在法庭上作证指控他，但她担心自己的安全，所以没有这么做。
The case was eventually dismissed.
该案最终被驳回。
No one from his gang ever bothered her again.
他那帮人再也没有打扰过她。
And as soon as she saved up enough money, Kara drove back home to Florida.
当她攒够了钱后，卡拉就开车回到了佛罗里达州的家。
It was 2015.
那是2015年。
[MUSIC PLAYING] So this is the part of the story where I explain the law that Congress enacted, what they wanted it to do, and what, in fact, it ended up doing, especially to Kara.
[音乐播放] 这就是故事的一部分，我解释了国会颁布的法律，他们希望它做什么，以及事实上它最终做了什么，特别是对卡拉。
Most people call this law SESTA-FOSTA.
大多数人将此法则称为 SESTA-FOSTA。
SESTA is short for Stop Enabling Sex Trafficking Act, and its goal was to stop sex trafficking by focusing on something really specific.
SESTA 是《制止性贩卖法案》的缩写，其目标是通过关注真正具体的事情来阻止性贩卖。
The law would go after sex ads on the internet, like the kinds of ads Kara's traffickers posted.
该法律将打击互联网上的性广告，例如卡拉的人贩子发布的广告。
The lawmakers figured, get rid of all the ads, and you'll cut off a whole part of this market.
立法者认为，去掉所有广告，你就会切断这个市场的整个部分。
Victims of trafficking had already tried to go after Backpage and sites like it for facilitating sex trafficking and prostitution even while Kara was still being trafficked, but most of those efforts failed because of something called Section 230.
即使在 Kara 仍在被贩运的时候，人口贩运的受害者就已经试图追查 Backpage 和类似网站，因为这些网站为性贩运和卖淫提供了便利，但大多数努力都因所谓的“第 230 条”而失败。
Section 230 basically says online platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Craigslist, anywhere users post or leave comments, the companies that operate those platforms, they're generally not responsible for what users say.
第 230 条基本上规定了 Facebook、Twitter、Reddit、Craigslist 等在线平台，用户在任何地方发布或留下评论的地方，运营这些平台的公司通常不对用户的言论负责。
So if someone posts something defamatory or something that results in harm-- like if an exchange on a dating app leads to harassment in real life-- the social media platforms can't be sued.
因此，如果有人发布诽谤性内容或造成伤害的内容（例如约会应用程序上的交流导致现实生活中的骚扰），社交媒体平台就不能被起诉。
Congress established this back in the early days of the web in the mid-'90s.
国会在 20 世纪 90 年代中期网络发展初期就确立了这一点。
It's a provision of the Communications Decency Act.
这是《通讯规范法》的一项规定。
But by 2018, celebrities like Amy Schumer and Seth Meyers were doing anti-trafficking PSAs, calling for a change to Section 230.
但到了 2018 年，艾米·舒默 (Amy Schumer) 和赛斯·迈耶斯 (Seth Meyers) 等名人开始发表反人口贩卖公益广告，呼吁修改第 230 条。
Attorneys general from nearly every state signed a letter to Congress.
几乎每个州的总检察长都签署了致国会的信函。
And finally, Congress took action.
最后，国会采取了行动。
This bill is completely bipartisan from beginning to end.
该法案自始至终完全是两党合作的。
This is Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat from Connecticut, the day of the SESTA-FOSTA vote.
今天是来自康涅狄格州的民主党参议员理查德·布卢门撒尔 (Richard Blumenthal)，SESTA-FOSTA 投票的当天。
This bill essentially would clarify Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act that was never intended to give website a free pass to aid and abet sex trafficking.
该法案本质上将澄清《通讯规范法》第 230 条，该条绝不是为了让网站免费通行证来帮助和教唆性贩运。
Lots of the outrage in the floor debate and several years of hearings that led to it was about children being trafficked.
现场辩论和数年听证会中的许多愤怒都是关于儿童被贩运的。
There are thousands of children out there who are waiting for our help.
那里有成千上万的孩子正在等待我们的帮助。
Children are being forced into sex slavery.
儿童被迫沦为性奴隶。
We cannot allow our children to be lured into this kind of hell.
我们不能让我们的孩子被引诱到这样的地狱。
Just a word about that.
简单说一下。
Roughly 1/2 the federal prosecutions for sex trafficking in the US are for people younger than 18.
在美国，大约 1/2 的性交易联邦起诉对象是 18 岁以下的人。
The year of this vote, it was nearly 750 teens and children.
今年投票的有近 750 名青少年和儿童。
And there have been cases of minors being advertised on websites like Backpage.
也曾出现过在 Backpage 等网站上刊登未成年人广告的案例。
97 senators voted yes on the bill-- almost unanimous, Republicans and Democrats on the same page, which never happens.
97 名参议员对该法案投了赞成票——几乎一致，共和党和民主党意见一致，但这种情况从未发生过。
But SESTA-FOSTA didn't just ban ads for minors being trafficked, or sex trafficking in general.
但 SESTA-FOSTA 不仅仅禁止针对被贩运的未成年人或一般性贩运的广告。
It banned ads for all paid sex, whether or not trafficking was involved, just to make sure that every possible case that could be prevented would be.
它禁止所有有偿性行为的广告，无论是否涉及人口贩卖，只是为了确保每一种可能的情况都能得到预防。
[MUSIC PLAYING] And websites would now be responsible, not just for ads, but for any content anyone posted that enabled sex trafficking.
[音乐播放] 网站现在不仅要对广告负责，还要对任何人发布的任何促成性交易的内容负责。
That mandate was so broad that websites radically changed their rules to eliminate any possible posts that they could be sued for.
该授权范围如此广泛，以至于网站从根本上改变了规则，以消除任何可能被起诉的帖子。
Entire swaths of social media platforms, subreddits, Craigslist message boards, Instagram hashtags, and Twitter communities were suddenly gone.
整个社交媒体平台、reddit 子版块、Craigslist 留言板、Instagram 标签和 Twitter 社区突然消失了。
Tumblr, long known as the place for DIY alt porn, banned sexual content across their site.
Tumblr 长期以来一直以 DIY 另类色情场所而闻名，该网站禁止在其网站上发布色情内容。
Five days before SESTA-FOSTA was signed into law, Backpage was seized by the FBI.
在 SESTA-FOSTA 签署成为法律的五天前，Backpage 被 FBI 查封。
The site had long been the focus of a federal criminal investigation, and what SESTA-FOSTA did, as soon as it was enacted, was prevent a new hub from popping up in its place.
该网站长期以来一直是联邦刑事调查的焦点，SESTA-FOSTA 在颁布后所做的就是阻止一个新的中心在其所在地出现。
By then, 2018, Kara had been out of being trafficked for three years.
到 2018 年，卡拉已经不再被拐卖三年了。
But it made me wonder--
但这让我想知道——
Had SESTA-FOSTA passed in 2008 instead of in 2018, do you think it would have gotten you out of being trafficked?
如果 SESTA-FOSTA 于 2008 年而不是 2018 年通过，您认为它会让您摆脱被贩运吗？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
Lina Misitzis Tell me why.
莉娜·米西齐斯 告诉我为什么。
Because there's other ways to be trafficked.
因为还有其他方式被贩运。
Not everybody's trafficked on the internet.
并非每个人都在互联网上被贩运。
People act like that's the only way that there is to get money, and it's not just the internet.
人们表现得好像这是获得金钱的唯一途径，而不仅仅是互联网。
I would have still been trafficked.
我仍然会被贩卖。
It probably would have been worse.
情况可能会更糟。
Worse because she knew very well what it was like to do the job without customers from ads.
更糟糕的是，因为她非常清楚在没有广告客户的情况下做这份工作会是什么样子。
On days when Craigslist or Backpage didn't work, Kara had to go find customers herself.
在 Craigslist 或 Backpage 无法使用的日子里，卡拉不得不亲自去寻找客户。
You'd go to casino bars, truck stops, anywhere-- walk the streets.
你会去赌场酒吧、卡车站，任何地方——走在街上。
So yeah, I firmly believe if that bill would have been passed, it would have been worse.
所以，是的，我坚信，如果该法案获得通过，情况会更糟。
It's not going to help you out of being trafficked.
它不会帮助您摆脱被贩运的命运。
I tried figuring out if Kara's take is right, if the law really didn't have much of an effect on the trafficking business.
我试图弄清楚卡拉的看法是否正确，法律是否真的对贩运活动没有太大影响。
Lawmakers definitely hoped it would reduce the number of people being trafficked.
立法者肯定希望这能减少被贩运的人数。
So did it?
那么做到了吗？
The best answer I could find is nobody knows.
我能找到的最好答案是没有人知道。
We don't know how to accurately count the number of people being sex trafficked, much less whether it's rising or falling.
我们不知道如何准确统计被性贩运的人数，更不知道这个数字是上升还是下降。
But we do know one effect of the law-- it's made policing sex trafficking harder.
但我们确实知道该法律的一个影响——它使监管性交易变得更加困难。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Since Backpage was seized, sex ads have scattered to lots of different sites where gathering evidence is more difficult.
[音乐播放] 自从 Backpage 被查封以来，性广告已经分散到许多不同的网站，在这些网站上收集证据更加困难。
I spoke with a senior analyst at Uncharted-- that's a software company that helps law enforcement track sex ads on the internet-- and she said at least half of the sex ads that had been on websites in the US are now hosted by websites offshore, meaning the servers are in other countries, so whoever owns those servers is not obligated to comply with law enforcement or respond to subpoenas.
我采访了 Uncharted 的一位高级分析师——这是一家帮助执法部门追踪互联网上性广告的软件公司——她说，美国网站上至少有一半的性广告现在由海外网站托管，这意味着服务器位于其他国家，因此拥有这些服务器的人没有义务遵守执法部门或回应传票。
Federal prosecutions of traffickers have actually fallen since SESTA-FOSTA passed.
自 SESTA-FOSTA 通过以来，联邦对贩运者的起诉实际上有所减少。
I called one of the legislators who spent years going after Backpage and online sex ads, former Senator Claire McCaskill.
我给一位多年来一直关注 Backpage 和在线性广告的立法者、前参议员克莱尔·麦卡斯基尔 (Claire McCaskill) 打了电话。
She helped run a Senate investigation into the site, and she was one of SESTA-FOSTA's original co-sponsors.
她帮助参议院对该网站进行了调查，并且是 SESTA-FOSTA 最初的共同发起人之一。
I wanted to talk to her about the law's intentions and how it's actually panned out.
我想和她谈谈法律的意图以及它的实际实施情况。
If the aim is to curb trafficking, so far as I can tell, there's no evidence that trafficking has decreased as a result of the law.
如果目的是遏制人口贩运，据我所知，没有证据表明人口贩运因该法律而减少。
Well, you can't prove a negative.
好吧，你不能证明是否定的。
And this is one of the oldest problems in crime prevention.
这是预防犯罪中最古老的问题之一。
When you're successful at crime prevention, it's very hard to prove how you were successful.
当您在预防犯罪方面取得成功时，就很难证明您是如何取得成功的。
So there is no evidence to say that this bill didn't do its job.
因此，没有证据表明该法案没有发挥作用。
And so we don't know, and it's irritating to me that there seems to be this narrative that the sex workers are putting out there, well, it didn't do any good.
所以我们不知道，令我恼火的是，性工作者似乎在那里发表了这样的言论，嗯，这没有任何好处。
Well, they don't-- I believe that it does have an impact when people can't easily sell children online.
嗯，他们没有——我相信，当人们不能轻易地在网上出售儿童时，它确实会产生影响。
I believe it in my bones, as somebody who prosecuted sex crimes for many years, that the ease of advertising children for sex, that going away is a positive in this country.
作为多年来起诉性犯罪的人，我从骨子里相信，在这个国家，为儿童做性广告很容易，离开是一件积极的事情。
That's not a negative.
这不是负面的。
When I asked her about SESTA-FOSTA making it harder to actually find and prosecute sex traffickers, she said law enforcement should, quote, "up their game." After SESTA-FOSTA passed, sex on the internet-- this won't come as a shock; there's a ton of it-- it all seemed suddenly radioactive.
当我问她 SESTA-FOSTA 是否会让真正发现和起诉性贩运者变得更加困难时，她说执法部门应该“提高他们的水平”。 SESTA-FOSTA 通过后，互联网上的性爱——这不会让人感到震惊；有很多东西——突然间它们似乎都具有放射性。
Not just advertisements for sex, it was true of all kinds of sex work, including people whose jobs are perfectly legal, like porn performers, camgirls, strippers.
不仅仅是性广告，所有类型的性工作都是如此，包括那些工作完全合法的人，比如色情表演者、女主播、脱衣舞娘。
After SESTA-FOSTA, tons of them said that they were getting kicked off of Instagram and Facebook.
SESTA-FOSTA 之后，很多人表示他们被 Instagram 和 Facebook 踢出。
Many of these were not explicit accounts, no nudity.
其中许多都不是露骨的叙述，没有裸体。
Like one porn performer who posted a picture of herself on Instagram on Valentine's Day.
就像一位色情演员在情人节那天在 Instagram 上发布了自己的照片一样。
She was wearing a tank top and mid-length red skirt, sitting on her bed, which she'd covered in rose petals.
她穿着背心和红色中长裙，坐在铺满玫瑰花瓣的床上。
The photo was captioned, Happy Valentine's Day.
照片的标题是“情人节快乐”。
By the next morning, her account had been removed by Instagram.
第二天早上，她的账户已被 Instagram 删除。
The president of an adult performers' union told me she's documented more than 3,600 banned accounts.
成人表演者工会主席告诉我，她记录了 3,600 多个被禁帐户。
I reached out to Facebook, which also owns Instagram, and a company spokesperson responded, quote, "We understand that people sometimes disagree with what we do and don't allow on Instagram.
我联系了同样拥有 Instagram 的 Facebook，该公司发言人回应称，“我们理解人们有时不同意我们在 Instagram 上做和不允许的事情。
We'll continue listening and responding to the concerns of our community."
我们将继续倾听并回应社区的担忧。”
Even though Kara wasn't being trafficked anymore, SESTA-FOSTA had an effect on her life-- a huge effect.
尽管卡拉不再被贩运，SESTA-FOSTA 对她的生活产生了影响——巨大的影响。
I'll pick up her story in 2015, when she first returned to Florida.
我将在 2015 年讲述她的故事，当时她第一次回到佛罗里达。
She'd been away for seven years, so she had no idea what to do, who to call, where to live.
她已经离开七年了，所以她不知道该做什么，该给谁打电话，住在哪里。
She tried finding a job, applied to lots and lots of them, but no one would hire her.
她尝试找一份工作，向很多人提出了申请，但没有人愿意雇用她。
She thinks it's because she had so many prostitution charges on her record.
她认为这是因为她的记录中有太多卖淫指控。
Not even the Family Dollar would give me a job.
就连家庭的钱也不能给我一份工作。
Like nobody would give me a job.
就像没有人会给我一份工作一样。
You're saying if you would apply for a job, they would run a background check on you.
你是说如果你申请工作，他们会对你进行背景调查。
And even though it's not a felony, the minute prostitution enters the picture, they're like, no.
尽管这不是重罪，但一旦卖淫出现，他们就会说，不。
Yeah, even Wawa.
是的，甚至是哇哇。
[LAUGHS] Those are the two jobs I was mad at the most-- Wawa, Walmart.
[笑]这是我最生气的两份工作——Wawa、沃尔玛。
Nobody would give me a job because of these charges.
没有人会因为这些指控而给我一份工作。
And it was mind-blowing to me, because I'm like, literally, it's a ticket in places.
这让我大吃一惊，因为我觉得，从字面上看，这就是某些地方的门票。
You don't even to go to jail, and you would not-- but because it was so frowned upon, because it was looked at as the nastiest, just immoral thing, these people would not give me a job.
你甚至不想进监狱，你也不会——但因为它是如此令人皱眉，因为它被视为最肮脏、最不道德的事情，这些人不会给我一份工作。
I'm trying to do everything that I can to just live a normal life, just be normal, and it wasn't working.
我试图尽我所能，过上正常的生活，只是正常，但没有成功。
So my next option was to do what I knew how to do.
所以我的下一个选择是做我知道该怎么做的事情。
That's why I jumped into the industry I knew how to survive on.
这就是为什么我跳入了我知道如何生存的行业。
So in 2015, a couple of years before the law passed, Kara went back to trading sex for money, except this time, for the first time ever, she got to keep the money.
因此，在 2015 年，即该法律通过的几年前，卡拉又重新开始以性换取金钱，只不过这一次，她有史以来第一次得到了钱。
There's an important distinction I want to make.
我想做出一个重要的区别。
At this point in her life, what Kara was doing was sex work, which means performing any sex act in exchange for money.
在她生命的这个阶段，卡拉所做的是性工作，这意味着进行任何性行为以换取金钱。
Lots of things make it different from being trafficked, but the biggest one is Kara chose to do it.
有很多因素使它与被贩运不同，但最重要的是卡拉选择这样做。
She wasn't being forced or coerced.
她没有被强迫或胁迫。
For the second half of her 20s, Kara's life totally changed.
20 多岁的后半段，卡拉的生活彻底改变了。
Not in some Disney rags-to-riches way-- though she was in Orlando-- but overall, she was happy.
尽管她身在奥兰多，但并不是迪士尼那种白手起家的方式，但总的来说，她很快乐。
She knew it was illegal and that she was risking more criminal charges, but no one would hire her anyway, and by doing sex work, she was able to get her own car, her own house.
她知道这是非法的，而且她面临更多刑事指控的风险，但无论如何没有人会雇用她，通过从事性工作，她能够拥有自己的汽车、自己的房子。
Kara was putting herself through school.
卡拉正在完成学业。
She got her GED, start going to classes.
她获得了 GED，开始上课。
She wanted to be a medical technician.
她想成为一名医疗技术员。
She was working towards certification.
她正在努力获得认证。
After that, she'd stop doing sex work.
在那之后，她就不再从事性工作。
She had a plan.
她有一个计划。
Nobody was in control of my life but me.
除了我之外，没有人可以控制我的生活。
I was empowered, man.
我被赋予了力量，伙计。
That's the biggest word.
这是最大的一句话。
I had the money to do and provide for myself.
我有钱做事并养活自己。
The way she made her money, the way she found her clients, it was all on Backpage.
她赚钱的方式，她寻找客户的方式，都在后台。
And you can probably see where this is going.
你也许可以看到这是怎么回事。
When Backpage shut down, all of a sudden, everything that was working for her disappeared.
当 Backpage 关闭时，突然间，所有对她有用的东西都消失了。
Kara kept doing sex work, only it was more dangerous, she says.
卡拉继续从事性工作，只是这更危险，她说。
Backpage and sites like it made it possible for sex workers to share information about clients before agreeing to meet them in person.
后台和类似网站使性工作者可以在同意与客户见面之前分享有关客户的信息。
They could warn one another about predatory clients who, for instance, won't wear condoms, or refuse to pay, or try making sex workers include some service that they didn't originally agree to.
他们可以警告对方注意掠夺性客户，例如，他们不会戴安全套，或拒绝付款，或尝试让性工作者提供一些他们最初不同意的服务。
It was a lifeline.
这是一条生命线。
Now, to get by, Kara started doing what her trafficker had her do on the nights that she hadn't made quota-- go outside, try picking clients up in bars.
现在，为了度过难关，卡拉开始做人贩子让她在没有完成配额的夜晚做的事情——出去，尝试去酒吧接客户。
And when she would pick up a guy, she'd go into those dates totally blind.
当她要约一个男人时，她会完全盲目地进行约会。
She says nothing violent happened to her, but she had less power.
她说她没有发生任何暴力事件，但她的权力较小。
Clients started haggling and wanted to pay her less money.
客户开始讨价还价，希望少付她钱。
And over time, it got too hard.
随着时间的推移，它变得太难了。
She couldn't post ads.
她无法发布广告。
She couldn't find clients.
她找不到客户。
She wasn't making any money.
她没有赚到钱。
I ended up completely losing the house, then, a couple weeks later, my car.
我最终完全失去了房子，几周后，又失去了我的车。
So I was barely making it-- making enough money to even get by, let alone feed myself.
所以我勉强维持生计——赚到的钱甚至足以维持生计，更不用说养活自己了。
After she lost her house, Karen moved into a hotel, one of those extended stay places.
失去房子后，凯伦搬进了一家酒店，这是那些长期住宿的地方之一。
And to pay for it, now that so much of her work had dried up, she did find another job, as a cashier at 7-Eleven.
为了支付这笔费用，既然她的大部分工作都已经枯竭，她确实找到了另一份工作，在 7-11 担任收银员。
She made $300 a week-- not enough to cover her room.
她每周赚 300 美元——不够支付她的房间费用。
For a short time, she tried sticking to her school schedule, going to class.
有一段时间，她尝试遵守学校的时间表去上课。
But I ended up dropping out, because I just-- it was just too much.
但我最终还是退学了，因为我——这实在是太多了。
Like it was either survive or go to school.
就像要么生存，要么上学。
So it literally changed everything.
所以它确实改变了一切。
When I spoke with Senator McCaskill, I told her about Kara, about how she had been trafficked for so long, finally escaped, and got on her feet by doing sex work, largely through Backpage, and how SESTA-FOSTA made her job harder, more dangerous.
当我与麦卡斯基尔参议员交谈时，我向她讲述了卡拉的故事，讲述了她如何被拐卖这么久，最终逃脱，并通过从事性工作（主要是通过 Backpage）重新站起来，以及 SESTA-FOSTA 如何让她的工作变得更困难、更危险。
The bill had this kind of big negative effect on her life, even though she's not a sex trafficker.
尽管她不是性贩子，但该法案对她的生活产生了巨大的负面影响。
And the law is supposed to be targeting traffickers.
该法律应该是针对人贩子的。
And so I'm wondering if this is a law that hits the wrong target.
所以我想知道这条法律是否击中了错误的目标。
Well, I guess I would say that if you were sitting in the shoes of the Senate in those years, you would have seen websites that were helping people traffick children for sex.
好吧，我想我会说，如果你当年坐在参议院，你会看到帮助人们贩卖儿童进行性交易的网站。
And they were being protected by a law, and they didn't deserve that protection.
他们受到法律的保护，但他们不值得受到这种保护。
So the intent of the law was to stop trafficking of children for sex.
因此，该法律的目的是制止以性为目的的儿童贩运。
One of the byproducts of that is that for adult consensual sex workers, they have to find other ways to find customers.
其副产品之一是，对于自愿的成年性工作者来说，他们必须寻找其他方式来寻找顾客。
I'm not sure that any of the complaints about the difficulty of finding clients to pay you for sex is a fair trade-off for stopping a website like Backpage that was facilitating the trafficking of children across this country.
我不确定，任何关于很难找到客户支付性费用的抱怨是否是阻止像 Backpage 这样在全国范围内贩卖儿童的网站的公平权衡。
And that's the weighing balance that we were looking at.
这就是我们正在研究的天平。
I asked her about all the sex workers whose jobs are not criminalized-- porn, camming, stripping-- who say they've been thrown off of social media because of SESTA-FOSTA and now find it harder to make a living.
我向她询问了所有性工作者的情况，他们的工作没有被定罪——色情、摄像、脱衣舞——他们说他们因为 SESTA-FOSTA 而被社交媒体抛弃，现在发现谋生更加困难。
She said that since they're doing nothing illegal, and nothing banned by SESTA-FOSTA, they should sue the social media companies.
她说，既然他们没有做任何违法的事情，也没有被 SESTA-FOSTA 禁止，他们应该起诉社交媒体公司。
And she repeated her point about the law's intent.
她重申了有关法律意图的观点。
Honestly, I'm more worried about sex trafficking than I am how much money they're making stripping.
老实说，我更担心的是性交易，而不是他们通过脱衣舞赚了多少钱。
Which, maybe that's the point.
也许这就是重点。
Congress cared about trafficking victims.
国会关心人口贩运受害者。
They weren't focused on all the other people who'd get caught up in this law, including someone like Kara who actually was a trafficking victim.
他们并没有关注所有其他可能陷入这项法律的人，包括像卡拉这样实际上是人口贩运受害者的人。
Just, she isn't anymore.
只是，她不再是了。
Kara is not doing sex work anymore.
卡拉不再从事性工作了。
She's getting by, but she's struggling.
她过得很好，但也很挣扎。
I told her the fact that she quit sex work, that the law made it so difficult for her to find clients, I think the lawmakers behind SESTA-FOSTA could see that as a victory.
我告诉她，她放弃了性工作，法律让她很难找到客户，我认为 SESTA-FOSTA 背后的立法者可以认为这是一次胜利。
Like the law worked.
就像法律起作用一样。
You are a success story.
你是一个成功的故事。
I highly doubt that they could use me as a success story.
我非常怀疑他们能否用我作为一个成功的故事。
Let me make it very clear, I was still an independent sex worker for a while after SESTA-FOSTA, so it didn't work.
让我说得很清楚，在SESTA-FOSTA之后我仍然是一名独立的性工作者一段时间，所以它不起作用。
SESTA-FOSTA didn't stop me.
SESTA-FOSTA 没有阻止我。
It hindered me a few times.
有好几次都阻碍了我。
It got less safer.
它变得不那么安全了。
I wasn't able to be able to screen my calls the way that I should have.
我无法以应有的方式筛选我的电话。
It became a headache, but it never stopped me.
这让我很头疼，但它从未阻止过我。
It's funny-- it was always Kara's plan to stop doing sex work.
有趣的是，卡拉一直计划停止从事性工作。
She wanted to finish school, get a different job, try starting a family.
她想完成学业，找到一份不同的工作，尝试组建家庭。
But when the law passed, it threw a wrench in her plan.
但当法律通过后，她的计划遭到了破坏。
She made a lot less money at sex work, which slowed down her progress and her ability to reach her goals.
她在性工作中赚的钱少了很多，这减慢了她的进步和实现目标的能力。
So the law didn't push her out of sex work, she says.
她说，因此法律并没有迫使她放弃性工作。
If anything, it kept her in it for longer.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是它让她在里面呆得更久了。
Lina Misitzis is one of the producers of our show.
Lina Misitzis 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Coming up, new rules come down, and you think, I don't know, maybe I should just quit my job and get out of here.
即将到来，新的规则将会出台，你会想，我不知道，也许我应该辞掉工作，离开这里。
A very extreme example of that, that's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
一个非常极端的例子是芝加哥公共广播电台节目继续播出后的一分钟。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "There, I Fixed It." Stories of what happens when somebody throws the book at some problem.
今天在我们的节目中，“我修好了。”讲述当有人把书扔到某个问题上时会发生什么的故事。
We hang out with the people who get bonked on the head with that book.
我们和那些被那本书撞到头的人一起出去玩。
In Act 1, it was the US Congress throwing the book.
在第一幕中，是美国国会抛出了这本书。
In Act 2, which we have arrived at now, it's the government of China.
在我们现在到达的第二幕中，是中国政府。
This is Act Two, "The Lonely Island."
这是第二幕“孤岛”。
So it's been a year and a few days now since China cracked down on Hong Kong with something called the National Security Law, which basically was Beijing saying to the people of Hong Kong, OK, game's over.
自从中国通过所谓的《国家安全法》镇压香港以来，已经过去一年零几天了，这基本上是北京对香港人民说，好吧，游戏结束了。
Stop the nonsense.
别废话了。
We're tired of your mess, the protests, the calls for free elections, criticism of China.
我们厌倦了你们的混乱、抗议、自由选举的呼吁、对中国的批评。
The National Security Law lets China wipe all that away.
《国家安全法》让中国消除了这一切。
And as a result, thousands of people have fled.
结果，数千人逃离。
The UK has extended a new kind of visa for Hong Kong residents that gives 70% of the population the ability to come live in the UK and apply for citizenship.
英国为香港居民提供了一种新的签证，使 70% 的香港居民能够在英国居住并申请公民身份。
When I was reporting in Hong Kong back in 2019, I met this writer named Karen Cheung.
2019年我在香港报道的时候，认识了这位作家，名叫张嘉伦。
She spent the last year, since July 2020, when the law was enacted, watching Hong Kong change under the new law, in small ways and big ones and wondering if she's going to have to leave herself.
自2020年7月该法颁布以来，她在去年度过了一年的时间，看着香港在新法下发生的大大小小的变化，并想知道她是否必须离开自己。
Here's Karen.
这是凯伦。
Everyone I know in Hong Kong has a point of no return, a point when the situation deteriorates so irrevocably that leaving is the only option A friend from university says her point of no return is the day when Hong Kong is forced to write in the simplified Chinese characters used in mainland China instead of the traditional characters we use here.
我在香港认识的每个人都有一个不归路，到了事态恶化到无可挽回的地步，离开是唯一选择的时候。一位大学朋友说，她的不归路就是有一天，香港被迫用中国大陆使用的简体字，而不是我们这里使用的繁体字。
Another friend said that her point of no return is the day the police shot a protester.
另一位朋友说，警察枪杀一名抗议者的那一天是她无法回头的时刻。
That happened in 2019.
那发生在2019年。
For a long time, my point of no return was when the National Security Law would be enacted in Hong Kong.
很长一段时间，我的不归路就是香港国安法何时颁布。
I chose that because I thought it would be a long time before that day would arrive.
我之所以选择这个，是因为我认为那一天还需要很长时间才能到来。
Then, suddenly, last June, the law became reality.
然后，突然间，去年六月，该法律成为现实。
My point of no return was here.
我的不归路就在这里。
The National Security Law is vague and broad, but what it comes down to is this.
《国安法》虽然模糊、宽泛，但归根结底就是这样。
Every other day, we learn about something new that is now potentially illegal.
每隔一天，我们都会了解到一些现在可能违法的新事物。
The eight-word slogan we all chanted at protests two years ago, apparently, you can't say that anymore.
两年前我们在抗议中喊过的八个字口号，显然，你不能再这样说了。
Want to put up pro-democracy decorations in your shop?
想在你的店里挂上支持民主的装饰品吗？
The police could show up.
警察可能会出现。
Even films that are about protests could be banned under new censorship guidelines.
根据新的审查准则，即使是有关抗议的电影也可能被禁止。
These acts could be considered endangering national security or trying to subvert mainland China.
这些行为可能被视为危害国家安全或试图颠覆中国大陆。
The maximum prison sentence for, quote, "grave offenses" is life.
引用“严重罪行”的最高刑罚是无期徒刑。
As soon as the law went into effect last June, we heard stories of people leaving.
去年六月该法律一生效，我们就听到有人离开的故事。
I thought I would be one of them.
我以为我会成为他们中的一员。
I'd always thought that when the day came, it would be an easy flip of a switch from Stay to Go.
我一直以为，当这一天到来时，从“留下”到“离开”的切换将会很容易。
I'm only 28, and I have my whole life in front of me.
我才28岁，我的人生就在我面前。
It wasn't too late to start fresh in a new place.
在一个新的地方重新开始还不算太晚。
But I didn't leave.
但我没有离开。
The seasons pass, and I keep looking for reasons to stay a bit longer.
季节更替，我一直在寻找停留更长时间的理由。
Summer, July 1, the day after the National Security Law was enacted is the anniversary of the handover when Hong Kong was handed from Britain to China, and it's an annual tradition to march in the streets.
夏天，7月1日，国安法颁布的第二天，是香港从英国移交给中国的回归纪念日，上街游行是一年一度的传统。
By noon, the police held up a brand new purple flag that actually read, verbatim, "This is a police warning.
到了中午，警察举起了一面全新的紫色旗帜，上面一字不差地写着：“这是警方的警告。
You are displaying flags or banners, chanting slogans, or conducting yourself with an intent such as secession or subversion, which may constitute offenses under the HKSAR National Security Law.
你展示旗帜或横幅、高喊口号或做出具有分裂国家或颠覆国家目的的行为，可能构成香港特别行政区国家安全法的罪行。
You may be arrested and prosecuted."
你可能会被逮捕并被起诉。”
Usually I'm out on the streets on July 1.
通常我会在 7 月 1 日上街。
Protests have been such a staple in Hong Kong for the past two decades.
过去二十年来，抗议活动一直是香港的主要活动。
For me and everyone I grew up with, that's essentially our whole lives.
对于我和与我一起长大的每个人来说，这基本上就是我们的一生。
But this year, I don't go to the march.
但今年，我没有参加游行。
Instead, my partner and I anxiously watch the news with friends, all of us too nervous to head out.
相反，我和我的伴侣与朋友们一起焦急地观看新闻，我们所有人都太紧张而不敢出门。
It already feels like a different world.
已经感觉像是一个不同的世界了。
There's a mass panic on social media.
社交媒体上出现了大规模恐慌。
People worry they're going to be jailed for things they've said.
人们担心他们会因为自己所说的话而入狱。
They've started deleting their social media accounts, erasing their posts, changing their usernames.
他们已经开始删除他们的社交媒体帐户，删除他们的帖子，更改他们的用户名。
I want to yell at these people, the Communist Party doesn't even know who you are.
我想骂这些人，共产党都不知道你是谁。
Don't play into their hands.
不要落入他们的手中。
Don't obey in advance.
不要提前服从。
But the person I'm really saying this to is myself.
但我真正说这句话的人是我自己。
I like to think that I'm at the far back of the line of people who will get arrested, because I'm a nobody.
我喜欢认为我处于被捕者队伍的最后面，因为我是一个无名小卒。
It's too early to know how and when the Security Law will be used on us, how bad it will be.
现在要知道《国安法》将如何、何时对我们实施，会有多严重，还为时过早。
Still, we take small steps so we can leave if we need to.
尽管如此，我们还是会采取一些小步骤，以便在需要时可以离开。
My partner and I get married a month later.
一个月后我和我的伴侣结婚了。
We do this so that if we decide to leave Hong Kong, we can leave together.
我们这样做是为了如果我们决定离开香港，我们可以一起离开。
I only have a Hong Kong passport, but my partner has citizenship in an English-speaking country.
我只有香港护照，但我的伴侣拥有英语国家的公民身份。
We contact a lawyer, sign a piece of paper, and get married.
我们联系了律师，签署了一份文件，然后结婚了。
I tell myself that this doesn't mean we're leaving; it's just in case.
我告诉自己，这并不意味着我们要离开；而是意味着我们要离开。以防万一。
This may sound weird, but I don't know what my partner thinks about leaving.
这听起来可能很奇怪，但我不知道我的伴侣对离开有何想法。
He doesn't bring it up, and I'm too scared to ask.
他没有提起，我也不敢问。
When he does let something slip, it seems to change every few weeks or months.
当他确实漏掉一些事情时，事情似乎每隔几周或几个月就会发生变化。
One day he says we could leave for 10 years and then come back when the crackdown has slowed.
有一天，他说我们可以离开十年，等镇压放缓后再回来。
Other times, he vows to stick it out here.
其他时候，他发誓要坚持下去。
Sometimes, when my partner takes a bath, I slide into the bathroom, and splash some water on his face, and say, by the way, I don't want to leave, OK?
有时候，当我的伴侣洗澡时，我就溜进浴室，往他脸上泼点水，然后说，对了，我不想离开，好吗？
Late at night, before we turn the lights off, I remind him that I really fucking hate the cold and that I have seasonal affective disorder.
深夜，在我们关灯之前，我提醒他我真的很讨厌寒冷，而且我患有季节性情感障碍。
So if we ever move to a place above a certain latitude, we'd have to get a light lamp, and even then, I'd probably still be crying, and depressed, and resentful.
因此，如果我们搬到某个纬度以上的地方，我们就必须得有一盏灯，即便如此，我可能仍然会哭泣、沮丧和怨恨。
Hong Kong is the only place I've ever called home.
香港是我唯一称之为家的地方。
Our generation grew up after the British left Hong Kong in 1997, and Hong Kong felt like it belonged to us.
我们这一代人是在1997年英国人离开香港之后长大的，香港感觉它是属于我们的。
Our grandparents and great grandparents came to Hong Kong fleeing the war against the Japanese, or communist oppression.
我们的祖父母和曾祖父母为了逃离抗日战争或共产主义压迫来到香港。
They thought about survival and nothing else.
他们只考虑生存，不考虑其他事情。
Some of them got rich along the way.
他们中的一些人一路致富。
But my friends and I, we had dreams.
但我和我的朋友们，我们都有梦想。
We slept on couches and made zines about neighborhoods we love.
我们睡在沙发上，制作有关我们喜爱的社区的杂志。
We wanted to build community spaces, and live on farms, and play shows at industrial buildings, and protest till our bodies were spent.
我们想要建造社区空间，住在农场，在工业建筑里表演，抗议直到我们的身体耗尽。
We weren't going to see this place as transitory.
我们不会把这个地方视为暂时的。
We would make this place our own.
我们会把这个地方变成我们自己的。
Even after the law, my day-to-day life hasn't changed much.
即使在法律颁布之后，我的日常生活也没有太大改变。
I feel angry when I read the news.
当我读到这个新闻时，我感到很愤怒。
More than 10,000 people have been arrested for protesting in 2019, and every week, protesters are sentenced to many years in jail.
2019 年已有超过 10,000 人因抗议被捕，每周都有抗议者被判处多年监禁。
But the messed up thing is, if I wanted to, I can still put on a swimsuit and go to the beach, or bitch about life with my friends at cafes, or sit for hours at my favorite bookstores like nothing has changed.
但糟糕的是，如果我愿意，我仍然可以穿上泳衣去海滩，或者在咖啡馆里和朋友们抱怨生活，或者在我最喜欢的书店坐上几个小时，就像什么都没有改变一样。
The doom and gloom space in my head where people I've met or known have been arrested exists alongside the sunny, humid streets and country parks of Hong Kong.
我脑海中的厄运和阴郁空间，就是我所见过或认识的人被捕的地方，与香港阳光明媚、潮湿的街道和郊野公园并存。
The storm hasn't hit us yet, and that's why we're still here.
暴风雨还没有袭击我们，这就是我们还在这里的原因。
Winter.
冬天。
The months pass.
几个月过去了。
12 Hong Kongers trying to flee to Taiwan on a boat are caught and detained in China.
12名试图乘船逃往台湾的香港人在中国被捕并被拘留。
The founder of our biggest pro-democracy paper is jailed.
我们最大的民主报纸的创始人被判入狱。
A teenage protester who was shot by the police in 2019 has to go into exile.
一名 2019 年被警察枪杀的青少年抗议者被迫流亡。
A journalist is arrested for doing investigative work.
一名记者因从事调查工作而被捕。
In early January, my partner and I have dinner at our friend's, who I'll call Beth.
一月初，我和我的伴侣在我们的朋友（我称之为贝丝）家吃晚饭。
Beth's small, bright studio has a beautiful balcony with lemon trees and other potted creatures.
贝丝的小而明亮的工作室有一个漂亮的阳台，阳台上种着柠檬树和其他盆栽生物。
Beth says she helped a group of her elderly relatives get their documents in order to leave.
贝丝说，她帮助一群年长的亲戚拿到了离开的文件。
They tried convincing her to leave too, said they had fled to Hong Kong from China during the Cultural Revolution, and they were grateful to not have had to live through that.
他们也试图说服她离开，说他们是在文化大革命期间从中国逃到香港的，他们很庆幸自己不必经历那样的事情。
People in our parents' generation were always fleeing for stability, for better lives.
我们父辈那一代人总是为了稳定、为了更好的生活而逃离。
But Beth and her partner have no plans to go.
但贝丝和她的伴侣没有去的计划。
A few days later, I'm still in bed when, through the door, I hear my partner crack open a beer.
几天后，当我还在床上时，我透过门听到我的伴侣打开啤酒。
It's only 10:00 in the morning, and he's already drinking, which means there must be another devastating development in the news.
现在才上午10:00，他已经喝醉了，这意味着新闻中肯定又出现了毁灭性的进展。
And I already know it will be a long day, week, month, year, eternity.
我已经知道这将是漫长的一天、一周、一个月、一年、永恒。
That morning, the police had arrested dozens of pro-democracy activists.
当天早上，警方逮捕了数十名民主活动人士。
Their offense?
他们的进攻？
They ran in a primary for an election that the government keeps postponing.
他们参加了政府不断推迟的选举初选。
It's the biggest single-day arrest so far.
这是迄今为止最大的单日逮捕行动。
Weeks later, in my day job, I read about their trial.
几周后，在我的日常工作中，我读到了他们的审判。
An activist on trial tells his pregnant wife that he loves her as he's facing an indeterminate number of years in prison.
一名受审的活动人士告诉他怀孕的妻子，他爱她，因为他面临着不确定的监禁年限。
I realize I have to compartmentalize and stop reading the news at work unless I want to start bawling in the office in front of a dozen coworkers.
我意识到我必须在工作中进行划分并停止阅读新闻，除非我想在办公室里当着十几个同事的面大哭。
Sometimes, the reason you want to leave isn't related to danger.
有时，你想离开的原因与危险无关。
It isn't that you give up.
并不是你放弃了。
It isn't that you think being somewhere else will bring you a better life.
这并不是说你认为去其他地方会给你带来更好的生活。
It's that your heart can't take it anymore.
就是你的心已经受不了了。
Maybe what will get me to leave is not fear, but fatigue.
也许让我离开的不是恐惧，而是疲惫。
After the mass arrests, that's when people around me start actively discussing leaving.
大规模逮捕之后，我周围的人开始积极讨论离开。
Soon, at dinner gatherings, the only thing my friends and I talk about is whether to go or stay.
很快，在晚餐聚会上，我和朋友们唯一谈论的就是去还是留。
Some sign up for language classes and join Facebook groups to learn about life in foreign countries.
有些人报名参加语言课程并加入 Facebook 群组来了解国外的生活。
When I see Beth again, her plans have changed.
当我再次见到贝丝时，她的计划改变了。
She and her partner have volunteered during the election and done work with international non-profits.
她和她的伴侣在选举期间担任志愿者，并与国际非营利组织合作。
They start getting worried about their safety, too.
他们也开始担心自己的安全。
Beth is leaving soon for school overseas, and she's trying not to think about whether she'll come back.
贝丝即将前往海外上学，她努力不去想自己是否会回来。
I ask them what they are going to do with their plants, which they care for like their babies, and they groan.
我问他们打算如何处理他们像照顾婴儿一样的植物，他们呻吟着。
Every time someone tells me they're leaving, I picture them fading into the background one by one around a rosy dinner table, until there is only me left, staring at my plate.
每当有人告诉我他们要离开时，我都会想象他们在玫瑰色餐桌周围一一消失在背景中，直到只剩下我，盯着我的盘子。
I try to imagine living in the Hong Kong where they're gone and all hanging out at a bookstore together in London, discussing Hong Kong news without fear that someone will eavesdrop.
我试着想象生活在他们不在的香港，大家一起在伦敦的一家书店闲逛，讨论香港新闻，而不用担心有人窃听。
It makes me want to throw myself into Victoria Harbor.
这让我想跳进维多利亚港。
I don't tell them any of this.
我不会告诉他们这些。
The public conversation around leaving has become so fraught.
关于离开的公开讨论变得如此令人担忧。
People judge you if you're going on about your new life abroad or see you as a deserter.
如果你继续在国外过新生活，或者将你视为逃兵，人们就会评判你。
Some people left without saying goodbye, not out of fear, but shame.
有些人没有说再见就离开了，不是因为害怕，而是因为羞愧。
I don't want my friends to think I'm judging their decisions, but it also means I never say out loud how much I can't bear to see them go.
我不想让我的朋友认为我在评判他们的决定，但这也意味着我从不大声说出我有多么不忍心看到他们离开。
Whenever my friends press me on my plans, all I can say is, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know-- which is true.
每当我的朋友追问我的计划时，我只能说，我不知道，我不知道，我不知道——这是事实。
After coming home from gatherings which increasingly feel like farewells, my partner and I still don't talk about our plans.
从越来越感觉像告别的聚会回家后，我和我的伴侣仍然没有谈论我们的计划。
Talking about it makes it feel real and imminent-- too soon, like we're going to leave tomorrow.
谈论它让人感觉真实而迫在眉睫——太快了，就像我们明天就要离开一样。
When we talk about who gets to leave, that discussion is inevitably tied to class and upward mobility, and therefore privilege.
当我们谈论谁可以离开时，讨论不可避免地与阶级和向上流动性以及特权联系在一起。
New visa policies mean that a lot more people get to leave now, but some still can't afford it.
新的签证政策意味着现在有更多的人可以离开，但有些人仍然负担不起。
And for people whose arrests are imminent, they don't have the luxury of discussing what their points of no return are.
对于那些即将被捕的人来说，他们没有机会讨论他们的不归路是什么。
The fact that I am having this internal debate, that I am neither in exile or in jail, is a privilege.
事实上，我正在进行这场内部辩论，我既没有流亡，也没有入狱，这是一种荣幸。
Spring-- in April, I'm scrolling through the news feed and see that the government has come up with something truly out of this world.
春天——四月，我浏览新闻源，看到政府想出了一些真正绝妙的东西。
It's called the National Security Education Day.
这一天被称为国家安全教育日。
Photos show little children holding fake guns and all sorts of weapons-- kids barely old enough to have pocket money, but already training to be cops.
照片显示，小孩子们拿着假枪和各种武器——孩子们还没有到有零花钱的年龄，但已经接受了成为警察的训练。
Schools are introducing patriotic education, and teachers can lose their teaching license for having views that are deemed politically incorrect.
学校正在推行爱国主义教育，教师可能会因持有被视为政治不正确的观点而被吊销教学执照。
I close the browser and think, there is no fucking way I ever send a kid of mine to a school in Hong Kong.
我关闭浏览器并想，我他妈的不可能把我的孩子送到香港的学校。
Recently, I sat on the back of a motorbike as a friend drove us through Hong Kong Island.
最近，我坐在摩托车后座上，朋友开车带我们穿越香港岛。
The honey-hued streets at night are quiet.
夜晚的蜂蜜色街道很安静。
All I can hear is the wind roaring by us and the metronomic hum of the traffic lights.
我能听到的只有呼啸的风声和交通灯的节拍声。
We pass by a rubbish truck tainting the air sour, and I noticed paint clumsily smeared on the side of the road to cover up graffiti of now-illegal slogans.
我们经过一辆垃圾车，空气中弥漫着酸味，我注意到路边笨拙地涂着油漆，以掩盖现在非法标语的涂鸦。
We meander through the stench of bitter Chinese herbs in Sheung Wan and one we're on Victoria Road, all we can smell is the damp soil.
我们在上环的苦中药味中蜿蜒而行，在域多利道，我们只能闻到潮湿的泥土味。
We stop at a stretch of waterfront, so far away from the light pollution that I can look up and see the stars.
我们停在一片海滨，远离光污染，抬头就能看到星星。
I feel a flood of existential dread.
我感到一股存在主义的恐惧涌来。
I had never seen the city on the back of a bike before.
我以前从未骑过自行车看过这座城市。
How many more ways are there to experience the city I thought I already knew, and how can you possibly tell me to leave before I have checked off all of them?
还有多少种方式可以体验这座我以为我已经了解的城市，在我检查完所有这些之前，你怎么可能让我离开？
We often speak of Hong Kong disappearing as the doomsday scenario, as though the city would submerge underwater like Atlantis.
我们经常把香港的消失说成是世界末日的情景，就好像这座城市会像亚特兰蒂斯一样淹没在水下。
It is much more likely that one day in the near future, the Hong Kong cityscape will not look unlike how it had in 2020, but there will be nobody here who remembers the place that once existed.
更有可能的是，在不久的将来的某一天，香港的城市景观将不会与2020年不同，但这里将没有人记得这个曾经存在的地方。
This is what I fear most-- that the skyscrapers will remain intact, the countryside hikes still beautiful, and the harbor rippling with nightlights.
这是我最担心的——摩天大楼将完好无损，乡村远足仍将美丽，海港将闪烁着夜光。
That you can still go to work and have afternoon tea at hotels, and outwardly, you can't tell anything is wrong, but the only ones left here are those who believe this is the best version of Hong Kong there could ever be.
你仍然可以去上班，在酒店喝下午茶，表面上你看不出有什么问题，但这里唯一留下的是那些相信这是香港最好版本的人。
I don't know what will happen in the next few years or even weeks, but I know that when it feels stupid to stay, like it does now, suddenly, something as small as a discreet box on a minibus stenciled with the words, "gaa yau," "I support you, keep holding on," could be enough to make our day seem less bleak.
我不知道未来几年甚至几周会发生什么，但我知道，当感觉留下来很愚蠢时，就像现在一样，突然间，像小巴上一个不起眼的盒子一样小，上面印着“gaa yau”、“我支持你，继续坚持”的字样，就足以让我们的日子看起来不那么暗淡了。
We talk about the question of staying or leaving like there is a right or wrong answer, a clever or irrational choice.
我们谈论留下或离开的问题，就像有一个正确或错误的答案，一个明智或非理性的选择。
But there's really only one question-- whether or not you're ready to say goodbye.
但实际上只有一个问题——你是否准备好说再见。
And I know I'm not ready yet.
我知道我还没有准备好。
For now, I choose limbo.
现在，我选择了地狱。
Karen Cheung.
张嘉伦.
Just in the last few weeks, as Karen was recording her story, things have gotten worse in Hong Kong.
就在过去几周，当凯伦记录她的故事时，香港的情况变得更糟。
Journalists have been arrested.
记者已被捕。
The big pro-democracy newspaper Apple Daily closed.
大型民主报纸《苹果日报》关闭。
Three activist groups disbanded.
三个激进团体解散。
Karen says some of her friends who weren't planning to leave are now reconsidering.
凯伦说，她的一些原本不打算离开的朋友现在正在重新考虑。
With this week's show, producing has gone through so many hands.
本周的演出，制作过程经历了很多人手。
Lina Misitzis, Laura Starecheski, Nadia Reiman, Aviva DeKornfeld, and Bim Adwunmi.
莉娜·米西齐斯、劳拉·斯塔莱切斯基、纳迪亚·雷曼、阿维瓦·德科恩菲尔德和比姆·阿德文米。
Other people who put together today's show, Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Damien Graef, Beth Lake, Rudy Lee, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Ari Saperstein, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的其他制作人还有 Susan Burton、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Damien Graef、Beth Lake、Rudy Lee、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Ari Saperstein、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to former Senator Heidi Heitkamp, Jon Courtney, Lana Wilson, Alan Yu, Clara Ma, Alex Andrews, Blair Hopkins, The Sex Worker Outreach Project, Behind Bars, Keith Chu, Bella Robinson, Ramona Flour, Lorelei Lee, Scott Cunningham, Greg DeAngelo, Aaron Sankin, Gustavo Turner, Julia Robertson, and Congressman Ro Khanna, Alex Levy Yelderman, EJ Dickson, Alice Aster, Kevin Schowengerdt and Emily Wyatt.
今天特别感谢前参议员 Heidi Heitkamp、Jon Courtney、Lana Wilson、Alan Yu、Clara Ma、Alex Andrews、Blair Hopkins、The Sex Worker Outreach Project、Behind Bars、Keith Chu、Bella Robinson、Ramona Flour、Lorelei Lee、Scott Cunningham、Greg DeAngelo、Aaron Sankin、Gustavo Turner、Julia Robertson 以及国会议员 Ro Khanna、Alex Levy Yelderman、EJ迪克森、爱丽丝·阿斯特、凯文·斯考文格特和艾米丽·怀亚特。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He recently misplaced a tooth that he was hoping to get tooth fairy money for-- just lost it.
他最近把一颗牙齿放错了地方，他本来希望用牙仙子的钱来换它——结果却把它弄丢了。
Drove him crazy.
快把他逼疯了。
It invaded all aspects of my life.
它侵入了我生活的各个方面。
Any room I walked into, I looked in the corners.
我走进任何一个房间，都会观察角落。
I looked under the table, crouched down.
我蹲下身子，看了看桌子底下。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。