731: What Lies Beneath - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #731 | February 12, 2021 731: What Lies Beneath Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 731 集 | 2021 年 2 月 12 日 731：背后隐藏着什么 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Announcer A quick warning-- there are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of this show.
序言：序言播音员 快速警告 - 今天的节目中有些脏话没有发出提示音。
If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
如果您更喜欢蜂鸣声版本，您可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上找到该版本。
OK, before you can understand how Bob's sister became the talk of the third grade and the big day that that led to that people still remember, I need to explain first that Bob's sister is a drawing.
好吧，在你了解鲍勃的妹妹如何成为三年级的话题以及导致人们仍然记得的重要日子之前，我需要首先解释一下鲍勃的妹妹是一幅画。
The teacher in this third grade class, Mr. Ablao, spotted it one day while teaching math.
有一天，三年级班的老师阿布劳先生在教数学时发现了这一点。
He saw one of the students, Antonio, working on a picture.
他看到其中一名学生安东尼奥正在创作一幅画。
I went over to him and said, put the picture away.
我走过去对他说，把照片收起来吧。
I probably did that two or three times.
我可能这样做过两三次。
And then the fourth time I went over, and I just took the picture and said, pay attention.
然后我第四次过去，我只是拍了张照片，说，注意。
It's math class.
这是数学课。
And I put it on my desk.
我把它放在我的桌子上。
He came up right before recess and is like, can I have my picture back?
他在课间休息前过来问我，我可以拿回我的照片吗？
And I was like, what is this picture of anyways?
我就想，这张照片到底是什么？
And he said, it's Bob's sister.
他说，这是鲍勃的妹妹。
And I'm like, who's Bob sister?
我想，鲍勃姐姐是谁？
It turns out Bob's sister is a minion, which I don't even think Bob's sister exists in the minion world.
原来鲍勃的妹妹是一个小黄人，我什至不认为鲍勃的妹妹存在于小黄人世界中。
You're saying the minions from the movie, Despicable Me?
你是说电影《卑鄙的我》中的小黄人吗？
Yes, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Ira Glass And he had just invented a sister character for Bob?
艾拉·格拉斯 他刚刚为鲍勃发明了一个姐妹角色？
Yeah, apparently.
是的，显然。
Ira Glass Mr. Ablao taped the drawing to the bookshelf behind his desk, near a photo of a wolf that was already there.
艾拉·格拉斯·阿布劳先生将这幅画贴在他办公桌后面的书架上，靠近一张已经在那里的狼的照片。
Because it was clear if Antonio kept the drawing, it would continue to be a distraction to him and a couple of his friends, who, at that point, were the only ones in class who really cared about Bob's sister.
因为很明显，如果安东尼奥保留这幅画，它会继续分散他和他的几个朋友的注意力，而他们是班上唯一真正关心鲍勃妹妹的人。
I was like, don't worry.
我当时想，别担心。
She's not going anywhere.
她哪儿也不去。
She'll be right here.
她马上就到了。
Any time you want to see her, she'll be behind me.
任何时候你想见她，她都会在我身后。
Because the kids were into the picture of Bob's sister.
因为孩子们很喜欢鲍勃妹妹的照片。
Yeah, and I didn't really quite understand why.
是的，我不太明白为什么。
I never investigated why this picture was such a big deal.
我从来没有调查过为什么这张照片如此重要。
But yeah, they would talk about it.
但是，是的，他们会谈论它。
They would go up and look at it.
他们会上去看看。
And yeah, it was a thing.
是的，这是一件事。
Why were you guys so excited about Bob's sister, do you think?
你们认为为什么你们对鲍勃的妹妹如此兴奋？
I think it's because it was another distraction in class that people could talk about.
我认为这是因为这是课堂上人们可以谈论的另一种干扰。
That's straightforward enough.
这很简单。
This is Dylan, one of Antonio's friends, who was into Bob's sister from the start.
这是迪伦，安东尼奥的朋友之一，他从一开始就喜欢鲍勃的妹妹。
Describe the drawing.
描述一下图画。
Dylan It's just like an octopus.
迪伦：就像章鱼一样。
And then it had two eyes and then tentacles coming out of it.
然后它长出了两只眼睛，然后从里面伸出了触手。
I didn't realize Bob's sister was an octopus?
我不知道鲍勃的妹妹是章鱼？
Bob's sister was an octopus.
鲍勃的妹妹是一只章鱼。
Ira Glass But Bob's a minion.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：但鲍勃是个奴才。
Well, it didn't really have anything to do with that.
嗯，这与此没有任何关系。
And was he referring to the minion, Bob, or am I just--
他指的是小黄人鲍勃，还是我只是——
No, he was not.
不，他不是。
Ira Glass I see.
艾拉·格拉斯 我明白了。
Was it a good drawing?
画得好吗？
It was like an eight-year-old's OK drawing.
这就像一个八岁孩子的好画。
It wasn't amazing, but it was like, you knew what it was.
这并不令人惊奇，但就像，你知道那是什么。
This whole question-- is it an octopus, is it a minion-- I asked Antonio, who drew Bob's sister, about that.
整个问题——它是章鱼还是小黄人——我问了画鲍勃妹妹的安东尼奥。
He tended to see Bob's sister as a Pac-Man ghost with big eyes, but he said-- and I thought this was surprisingly mature for somebody in elementary school.
他倾向于将鲍勃的妹妹视为长着大眼睛的吃豆人幽灵，但他说——我认为这对于小学的人来说是令人惊讶的成熟。
He thought part of the appeal of Bob's sister was that it was open to interpretation.
他认为鲍勃妹妹的吸引力部分在于它可以自由解释。
I really don't know what it is.
我真的不知道那是什么。
It's a thing.
这是一件事。
I don't know what it-- it's lots of different things.
我不知道它是什么——有很多不同的东西。
You could think of it as a minion that looks weird.
你可以把它想象成一个看起来很奇怪的随从。
You could think of it as Fly Guy with no legs.
你可以把它想象成没有腿的苍蝇小子。
You could think of it as Pac-Man ghost with big eyes.
你可以把它想象成长着大眼睛的吃豆人幽灵。
Bob's sister was different to everybody.
鲍勃的妹妹与每个人都不同。
We never went with one of them.
我们从来没有和他们中的一个一起去过。
We didn't say anything.
我们什么也没说。
Anyone could believe what they want.
任何人都可以相信他们想要的东西。
But the thing that was key to Bob's sister was, Bob's sister wasn't actually anyone's sister.
但对鲍勃的妹妹来说最重要的是，鲍勃的妹妹实际上并不是任何人的妹妹。
That's really funny.
这真的很有趣。
Antonio And we didn't come up with a gender either.
安东尼奥：我们也没有提出性别。
So Bobsister, gender unspecified, lived on the bookshelf near the photo of a wolf, until one week when Mr. Ablao went on vacation and the kids had a substitute.
因此，性别不明的鲍伯斯特住在书架上靠近狼照片的地方，直到一周阿布劳先生去度假，孩子们找到了替代品。
When Mr. Ablao came back, Bobsister was gone, vanished, disappeared, and was all the kids wanted to talk about.
当阿布劳先生回来时，鲍伯斯特不见了，消失了，消失了，孩子们只想谈论这一切。
This is the point where everybody in class gets very, very interested in Bobsister.
这是班上每个人都对 Bobsister 非常非常感兴趣的一点。
There's kind of all this speculation about what happened to Bobsister.
关于 Bobsister 发生的事情有各种各样的猜测。
Was she stolen?
她被偷了吗？
Was she murdered?
她是被谋杀的吗？
Did she die?
她死了吗？
And so, I go and I look a little bit.
所以，我走了，我看了一点。
I looked under the desk.
我看了看桌子下面。
I looked behind the bookshelf and--
我看了看书架后面——
Did you ask the substitute?
你问替补了吗？
Mr. Ablao I did, actually.
阿布劳先生，事实上，我做到了。
He had no idea what I was talking about, which was good enough for me.
他不知道我在说什么，这对我来说已经足够了。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
For me, that makes him suspect number one.
对我来说，这让他成为第一嫌疑人。
[LAUGHS] Interesting.
[笑]有趣。
Ira Glass There's your guy.
艾拉·格拉斯：这就是你的人。
Do you not watch any crime drama at all?
你根本不看任何犯罪剧吗？
There are all kinds of theories about what happened to Bobsister.
关于 Bobsister 的遭遇有各种各样的说法。
Antonio and Dylan said it was really fun to talk about-- various abductors, including animals from an alternate universe.
安东尼奥和迪伦说，谈论各种绑架者，包括来自另一个宇宙的动物，真的很有趣。
But Dylan says the prime suspect for his classmates?
但迪伦说他同学的头号嫌疑人？
That other picture on the bookshelf.
书架上的另一张照片。
They just decided that the wolf ate it because it was right above the wolf.
他们只是认为狼吃了它，因为它就在狼的上方。
They didn't really know why.
他们真的不知道为什么。
They just-- that's what they said.
他们只是——这就是他们所说的。
Who said that?
谁说的？
Dylan Basically everybody.
迪伦 基本上每个人。
The chatter about Bobsister does not go away, which is funny, but also Mr. Ablao's got a curriculum to get through.
关于 Bobsister 的议论并没有消失，这很有趣，而且 Ablao 先生还有一门课程要完成。
And I'm kind of vaguely annoyed because there's a lot going on in the school day, and I don't have much time to think about a picture of Bobsister.
我有点恼火，因为学校里有很多事情，我没有太多时间思考 Bobsister 的照片。
But they're kind of pestering me about it.
但他们一直在纠缠我。
And then one other student--
然后另一名学生——
Dylan, actually.
事实上，迪伦。
Mr. Ablao --pipes in and says, can we have a funeral for Bobsister?
阿布劳先生插话道，我们可以为鲍伯斯特举办葬礼吗？
And I'm like, what are you talking about?
我想，你在说什么？
And they're like, well, she died.
他们就像，好吧，她死了。
Something happened.
发生了一些事情。
And I'm like, a funeral for Bobsister, a picture?
我想，为 Bobsister 举办的葬礼，一张照片？
And I say yes.
我说是的。
Probably just to get them to stop talking about Bobsister.
可能只是为了让他们停止谈论 Bobsister。
But also, this is the kind of teacher he is.
而且，他就是这样的老师。
He says, sometimes, it's smart to take some detours, follow things the way they lead.
他说，有时候，走一些弯路，顺其自然是明智的做法。
And they're like, when?
他们就像，什么时候？
I'm like, uh, I don't know when.
我想，呃，我不知道什么时候。
I don't know when this funeral is going to happen.
我不知道这个葬礼什么时候举行。
And they're like, when?
他们就像，什么时候？
When's it going to happen?
什么时候会发生？
When's it going to happen?
什么时候会发生？
We are going to have a funeral for Bobsister.
我们要为鲍勃姐姐举行葬礼。
And so then, finally, I'm like, after the recess on Friday.
所以，最后，我想，在周五的休会之后。
That was Monday.
那是星期一。
The rest of the week goes pretty normally.
这周剩下的时间一切都很正常。
Mr. Ablao sort of hoped that they would forget about the funeral by the end of the week, but no way.
阿布劳先生有点希望他们能在本周末忘记葬礼，但没办法。
They were murmuring about it, preparing for it-- which he has no part of.
他们正在窃窃私语，为之做准备——而他却没有参与其中。
The eight-year-olds are the ones organizing this and thinking it through.
八岁的孩子是组织这个活动并进行思考的人。
Finally, Friday arrives, the big day, the day of the funeral.
终于，星期五到了，这是一个大日子，葬礼的日子。
The kids come back into the room from recess.
孩子们下课后回到房间。
They're pretty giddy and pretty excited, so finally, I'm like, OK, game on, let's go.
他们非常头晕，非常兴奋，所以最后，我想，好吧，游戏开始，我们走吧。
Funeral.
葬礼。
I have no idea what is about to transpire.
我不知道会发生什么。
All of a sudden, boom, the tables kind of move out of the way.
突然，“砰”的一声，桌子移开了。
The leader of the funeral comes up with the stool.
葬礼的领队搬来了凳子。
Two other students bring two tables and grab the flowers.
另外两个学生带来了两张桌子并抢走了鲜花。
Apparently, a bunch of girls had been making posters.
显然，一群女孩正在制作海报。
They write Bobsister's Funeral on the board.
他们在黑板上写下了“鲍勃姐妹的葬礼”。
Dylan's the leader of the funeral.
迪伦是葬礼的主持者。
And he prepared a eulogy.
他还准备了悼词。
So did his friend, Theo.
他的朋友西奥也是如此。
Dylan gets in front of the class, holding a microphone Mr. Ablao keeps in the room.
迪伦走到全班同学面前，手里拿着阿布劳先生放在房间里的麦克风。
The rest of the class is totally on the edge of their seats, just waiting for this kid to start the funeral, like paying more attention to him than they ever paid to me.
班里的其他人都坐立不安，等待着这个孩子开始葬礼，就像对他的关注比对我的关注还要多。
And they were just ready for it.
他们已经做好了准备。
He starts out kind of ad-libbing about welcoming everyone, thanking everyone for coming to celebrate the life of Bobsister.
他一开始就即兴表达了对大家的欢迎，感谢大家前来庆祝 Bobsister 的生活。
Now, how did you know what to say in the eulogy?
现在，你怎么知道在悼词中要说什么？
We didn't.
我们没有。
We just said some things that sounded about right, like something that you might say at a funeral that might make someone cry.
我们只是说了一些听起来正确的话，就像你在葬礼上可能会说的话可能会让某人哭泣。
Yeah.
是的。
Take it out?
拿出来吗？
Ira Glass Could you read it?
艾拉·格拉斯 你能读一下吗？
OK, one sec.
好的，一秒钟。
And then it sort of-- mine also says, sort of back and forth, she and he, so.
然后有点——我的也这么说，有点来来回回，她和他，所以。
Because I didn't really know.
因为我真的不知道。
"Bobsister was a great person.
“鲍伯斯特是一个伟大的人。
People thought that Bob was just a drawing on a piece of paper, but I knew he was anything but that.
人们认为鲍勃只是一张纸上的图画，但我知道他绝非如此。
But she is still in here.
但她还在这里。
She made me think I could do things in school.
她让我觉得我可以在学校做一些事情。
If she was here today, she would say keep on trying."
如果她今天在这里，她会说继续努力。”
That's really nice.
那真是太好了。
It sounds like you were trying to be sort of inspiring.
听起来你是想给人一些启发。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Had you seen a eulogy in a movie or something that you knew what to do?
Ira Glass：您是否在电影中看过悼词或您知道该怎么做的东西？
The other eulogy that Theo wrote was also really good.
西奥写的另一篇悼词也非常好。
"I just want to say something about the special person here, Bobsister.
“我只想谈谈这里的一个特别的人，Bobsister。
She was such a good friend to all the potatoes and especially, Mr. Potato Head." Potatoes were another fascination in Mr. Ablao's class that year.
她是所有土豆的好朋友，尤其是土豆头先生。”那年，土豆是阿布劳先生课堂上的另一个魅力所在。
"What an honor it was to have her with us.
“她和我们在一起是多么荣幸。
God bless her." And then, from the back of the room, Mr. Ablao hears a boy crying.
上帝保佑她。”然后，阿布劳先生从房间后面听到一个男孩在哭。
I would say almost wailing, but it was like a real cry.
我想说几乎是在哭泣，但这就像真正的哭泣。
And at first, I'm thinking, oh my God, now they're just turning this into a joke.
起初，我在想，天哪，现在他们只是把这变成了一个笑话。
And then, I realized that he's actually seriously crying.
然后我发现他真的在哭。
Like, this is not a joke cry.
就像，这不是开玩笑。
And I walk back there.
然后我走回那里。
And everyone kind of turns back.
每个人都会回头。
Everyone's looking at both of us.
每个人都看着我们俩。
And so, I ask him.
所以，我问他。
I was like, what's wrong?
我当时想，怎么了？
What's going on?
这是怎么回事？
Why are you crying?
你为什么哭？
And he's like, it's because Bobsister died.
他说，这是因为 Bobsister 死了。
And I was like, it's not about anything else?
我当时想，这与其他事情无关吗？
Maybe?
或许？
And he's like, no, it's Bobsister has died, and it's just so sad.
他说，不，是鲍勃姐姐死了，这太悲伤了。
Mr. Ablao thinks maybe it was really about his dog.
阿布劳先生认为这可能真的是关于他的狗的。
The dog that boy had grown up with had died just two weeks before.
和男孩一起长大的狗两周前去世了。
His mom had sent an email to let him know.
他的妈妈发了一封电子邮件让他知道。
But Mr. Ablao is really not sure.
但阿布劳先生确实不确定。
At eight, you're old enough to catch a glimpse of what death means.
八岁的时候，你已经足够了解死亡的意义了。
And then I look up, and then the whole kind of feel of the classroom has changed.
然后我抬头一看，整个教室的感觉就变了。
It's gone from kind of giddy excitement, this is a fun thing, to half the class is nervously laughing.
它不再是一种令人眼花缭乱的兴奋，这是一件有趣的事情，而是一半的班级都在紧张地笑。
And the other half looks like they're on the verge of tears.
另一半看起来快要哭了。
There's about three girls that are kind of really sad.
There's about three girls that are kind of really sad.
And I was like, oh no, what have I created?
我当时想，哦不，我创造了什么？
This was reaching an emotional level that I actually had never experienced before.
这达到了我以前从未经历过的情感水平。
And I've been teaching for about 15 years.
我已经教书大约15年了。
And I had never felt kind of this-- not that it was getting out of control, but it was it was leading to something that I didn't know how it was going to end, honestly.
我从来没有这样的感觉——不是说事情失去了控制，而是说它导致了一些我不知道会如何结束的事情，老实说。
I don't know what's going to happen next.
我不知道接下来会发生什么。
If three other kids start crying, I don't know how to handle the situation.
如果另外三个孩子开始哭泣，我不知道如何处理这种情况。
Right.
正确的。
Mr. Ablao I had never experienced that in a classroom.
阿布劳先生 我从未在课堂上经历过这种情况。
It's so interesting.
太有趣了。
It's like they were playing around with-- I don't know-- a Ouija board and joking around.
就像他们在玩——我不知道——一块显灵板并开玩笑。
And suddenly, they accidentally summoned a demon into the room.
突然，他们不小心将一个恶魔召唤到了房间里。
Yeah, in a way.
是的，在某种程度上。
And for me, I was right there on the Ouija board with them.
对我来说，我就和他们一起在显灵板上。
And so this monster's in the room.
所以这个怪物就在房间里。
You've unleashed this, really, kind of a primal force, this grief, right?
你真的释放了一种原始的力量，这种悲伤，对吗？
Yeah, grief, death.
是的，悲伤，死亡。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
And I mean, one of the really neat things about third grade is, it's-- I mean, there's a saying, they stop learning to read and are reading to learn.
我的意思是，三年级真正美妙的事情之一是，我的意思是，有一种说法，他们停止学习阅读，而是通过阅读来学习。
So it's an age where their world gets a lot bigger.
So it's an age where their world gets a lot bigger.
They kind of are experiencing real things.
他们正在经历真实的事情。
And I think a funeral is one of those things.
我认为葬礼就是其中之一。
They probably all heard of a funeral.
他们可能都听说过葬礼。
They read them in books, but most of them probably hadn't been to one and didn't know what that felt like.
They read them in books, but most of them probably hadn't been to one and didn't know what that felt like.
And Mr. Ablao felt responsible to help them through this new experience, like he had lots of others that year.
And Mr. Ablao felt responsible to help them through this new experience, like he had lots of others that year.
So he took control of the room back from the kids and addressed them all.
So he took control of the room back from the kids and addressed them all.
I was like, well, funerals are kind of serious.
我当时想，嗯，葬礼有点严肃。
Sometimes when you go to a funeral, it's very sad because you're missing the person that's moved on.
Sometimes when you go to a funeral, it's very sad because you're missing the person that's moved on.
And sometimes it reminds you of other people who have moved on.
And sometimes it reminds you of other people who have moved on.
And it's important to remember those people.
记住这些人很重要。
And it's important to be sad.
悲伤很重要。
And this is the end of the funeral.
葬礼到此结束。
Which worked.
这有效。
Everybody snapped out of it.
每个人都猛然清醒过来。
The demon left the room.
恶魔离开了房间。
Next was free time, which they all enjoy, and everything was fine.
Next was free time, which they all enjoy, and everything was fine.
But at the end of the school year, when the class stood in a circle and each kid named something that they remembered and liked from third grade, a couple of the kids said Bobsister's funeral.
但在学年结束时，当全班同学围成一圈，每个孩子都说出他们三年级时记得和喜欢的东西时，几个孩子提到了鲍伯斯特的葬礼。
It was a moment for Mr. Ablao, too.
对于阿布劳先生来说，这也是一个时刻。
Sometimes you're joking around, and it's all light and fun and trying something you've never done before.
Sometimes you're joking around, and it's all light and fun and trying something you've never done before.
And some bigger subterranean force gets unleashed.
And some bigger subterranean force gets unleashed.
That's what our show is going to be about today, those moments when you get a glimpse of all that feeling that's there down below, hidden from sight.
这就是我们今天的节目要讲的内容，那些让你瞥见隐藏在视线之外的所有感觉的时刻。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Through the Eye of a Needle.
第一幕，透过针眼。
So let's move now from young people contemplating death to the exact opposite-- older people realizing that their lives are saved and feeling great about it.
因此，现在让我们从年轻人考虑死亡转向完全相反的情况——老年人意识到他们的生命被拯救了，并对此感到高兴。
And one place where people are feeling that feeling lately-- when they get the coronavirus vaccine.
And one place where people are feeling that feeling lately-- when they get the coronavirus vaccine.
All over our great nation, over a million people a day are now getting the vaccine, which still leaves most of us-- speaking for myself-- jealous and wondering what happens in those little rooms.
在我们伟大的国家，现在每天有超过一百万人接种疫苗，这仍然让我们大多数人——就我自己而言——嫉妒并想知道那些小房间里发生了什么。
Nurses are coming out of retirement, sometimes without pay, to volunteer and give us shots and try to save us all.
Nurses are coming out of retirement, sometimes without pay, to volunteer and give us shots and try to save us all.
Tobin Low, one of our editors here, his mom is one of those nurses-- has been doing vaccinations in California.
托宾·洛（Tobin Low）是我们这里的一位编辑，他的妈妈是其中一位护士——一直在加利福尼亚州进行疫苗接种。
I want to ask you about the first person that you gave the vaccine to.
I want to ask you about the first person that you gave the vaccine to.
Can you tell me that story?
你能告诉我那个故事吗？
Remind me a little bit, because I've been doing this now for--
Remind me a little bit, because I've been doing this now for--
Boy.
男孩。
Tobin Low So tell me about vaccinating dad.
托宾·洛 (Tobin Low) 告诉我有关为爸爸接种疫苗的事情。
OK.
好的。
I had not given a vaccine in 15 years.
我已经 15 年没有接种疫苗了。
And so, he was my first vaccine after 15 years.
所以，他是我 15 年后的第一支疫苗。
He was a good sport about it.
他对此很感兴趣。
And it all went well.
一切都很顺利。
Was there a kiss afterwards, or is that unprofessional?
Was there a kiss afterwards, or is that unprofessional?
You know, we were in a work setting.
你知道，我们当时是在工作环境中。
And so, it was all business.
所以，这都是生意。
It's not always all business.
这并不总是生意。
Feelings do bubble up to the surface.
感情确实会浮出表面。
One of our producers, David Kestenbaum, was curious about what happens when people get the shots.
我们的制片人之一大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆（David Kestenbaum）很好奇人们拿到镜头后会发生什么。
He talked to nurses who have been administering the vaccine, sometimes going through this kind of intense moment with total strangers, one after another.
他与一直在注射疫苗的护士进行了交谈，有时他们会一个接一个地与完全陌生的人一起经历这种紧张的时刻。
Here's David.
这是大卫。
Iris Sanchez heard they were looking for nurses to volunteer in Texas in an email.
艾里斯·桑切斯 (Iris Sanchez) 在一封电子邮件中听说他们正在寻找护士到德克萨斯州做志愿者。
I don't think she even finished reading it.
我认为她甚至没有读完它。
Oh my God, I got so excited because I know that these spots fill up really fast.
Oh my God, I got so excited because I know that these spots fill up really fast.
So I just kept looking, and my hands were shaking.
所以我只是继续看，我的手在颤抖。
Like, where's the link?
比如，链接在哪里？
Where's the link?
链接在哪里？
I want to beat everybody to it.
我想打败所有人。
I don't want to get left out, so.
我不想被排除在外，所以。
That's how people describe signing up to get the vaccine.
人们就是这样描述报名接种疫苗的。
You know what?
你知道吗？
Yeah, you're right.
是的，你是对的。
The spots fill up pretty fast, so there's this rush of, I want to be the first one to sign up for it.
名额很快就满了，所以大家都很忙，我想成为第一个报名的人。
Iris sits at vaccination station number 2, or number 10.
Iris 坐在 2 号或 10 号疫苗接种站。
It varies, wherever they put her that day.
无论那天他们把她放在哪里，情况都会有所不同。
She's in the Alamodome in San Antonio, this huge stadium where the Spurs used to play.
她在圣安东尼奥的阿拉莫圆顶球场，这座巨大的体育场曾是马刺队的比赛场地。
I imagine them down on the court, but she's like, no, no, we're up in the hallway, where you get your beer and nachos.
我想象他们在球场上，但她说，不，不，我们在走廊上，你可以在那里喝啤酒和玉米片。
That's where they're giving the vaccines.
这就是他们接种疫苗的地方。
Though somehow the word "vaccine" seems inadequate.
尽管不知怎的，“疫苗”这个词似乎不够充分。
I call it "the precious." David Kestenbaum You call it the precious?
我称之为“珍贵”。 David Kestenbaum 你称其为珍贵？
I call it the precious.
I call it the precious.
So let me tell you about the precious, if everybody wants to know about the precious.
如果每个人都想了解珍贵的话，那么让我告诉您有关珍贵的事情。
I call it the precious because it's just so precious.
我称它为珍贵，因为它是如此珍贵。
So you have people in the drawing room in what we call the pharmacy.
所以有人在我们称之为药房的客厅里。
And there's this black curtain, and it says Pharmacy.
还有这个黑幕，上面写着“药房”。
And you can't go in there.
而且你不能进去那里。
It's like the Wizard of Oz.
这就像绿野仙踪。
And they have people actually drawing up the vaccines.
他们确实有人在研制疫苗。
And they put them on a little tray, and then they're covered with this drape.
他们把它们放在一个小托盘上，然后用布盖住它们。
And then they lift up the little drape, and you have all these little precious vaccines on there.
然后他们掀起小布帘，上面就有所有这些珍贵的小疫苗。
And you get to pick one, and then you have to put it underneath the drape on your table.
你可以选择一个，然后你必须把它放在桌子上的窗帘下面。
And so people would say, why are you hiding the vaccine?
所以人们会说，你为什么要隐藏疫苗？
Why don't you want me to see it?
你为什么不想让我看到它？
And it's like, no, it's just it's very light sensitive, so we have to keep it covered so it can be asleep until it's ready, and then I'll give you your vaccine.
就好像，不，它只是对光非常敏感，所以我们必须把它盖起来，这样它就可以睡着，直到准备好，然后我会给你注射疫苗。
I said, but look, it's here.
我说，但是看，它就在这里。
It's right there.
它就在那里。
You are getting a vaccine today.
您今天要接种疫苗。
Pfizer, for the record, says that once the vial has been thawed, it is OK to expose the vaccine to room light.
辉瑞公司郑重声明，一旦小瓶解冻，就可以将疫苗暴露在室内光线下。
People are nervous about getting vaccinated, not because they don't want to be protected against the deadly disease.
人们对接种疫苗感到紧张，并不是因为他们不想受到保护，免受这种致命疾病的侵害。
It's so much simpler.
简单多了。
They don't like needles.
他们不喜欢针。
Iris has a whole strategy for dealing with that.
Iris 有一套完整的策略来处理这个问题。
You just tell them, don't look.
你只要告诉他们，别看。
Just don't look.
只是别看。
And I talk to them.
我和他们交谈。
I'm like a little chatterbox.
我就像一个小话匣子。
I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
我就像，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉，巴拉。
And I'm like, OK, we're done.
我想，好吧，我们完成了。
And they're like, oh!
And they're like, oh!
Because I'm distracting them, so they're like, this woman won't shut up.
因为我分散了他们的注意力，所以他们就说，这个女人不会闭嘴。
But there is a reason for my madness.
但我的疯狂是有原因的。
You just talk, and you're distracting them because they're like, she's going to shut up when she's ready to give me the shot, so they're not expecting it.
你只是说话，你分散了他们的注意力，因为他们会想，当她准备好给我注射时，她就会闭嘴，所以他们没有预料到。
And then bam, there you go.
然后砰，就这样。
It's done.
完成了。
Iris volunteered to do this.
艾里斯自愿这样做。
She's not getting paid.
She's not getting paid.
Her full-time job is in endocrinology, so a lot of patients with diabetes.
她的全职工作是内分泌科，所以糖尿病患者很多。
It's been a rough year.
It's been a rough year.
One of her favorite patients died from COVID.
她最喜欢的一位病人死于新冠肺炎。
In this moment, when people get the shot, it can be intense.
在这一刻，当人们受到打击时，可能会很激烈。
She only spends a few minutes with each person, but people tell you stuff.
她只与每个人相处几分钟，但人们会告诉你一些事情。
I had this young man.
I had this young man.
He was in his 40s, and he came in for the vaccine.
他 40 多岁，来接种疫苗。
And this was on a Tuesday.
那是在星期二。
And he said, my parents are really happy that I'm here because my brother just died on Friday from COVID.
他说，我的父母很高兴我来到这里，因为我的兄弟周五刚刚死于新冠病毒。
He didn't make it.
他没有成功。
So my parents were just so sad, and they're just happy that I'm here because they don't want to lose their second child.
所以我的父母非常悲伤，但他们很高兴我在这里，因为他们不想失去他们的第二个孩子。
Because if I die, then they don't have any more children.
因为如果我死了，他们就不会再有孩子了。
That was sad.
那很伤心。
That was really sad.
那真的很伤心。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Iris Sanchez In the 40s, gosh, yeah.
Iris Sanchez 在 40 年代，天哪，是的。
The man told Iris it was his parents who had actually gone online to sign up, but they could only get one appointment.
该男子告诉艾里斯，实际上是他的父母上网报名的，但他们只能预约一次。
And they decided he should have it.
他们决定他应该拥有它。
They thought it was more important that he get the shot.
他们认为让他投篮更重要。
He qualified because he had an underlying medical condition.
他符合资格是因为他有潜在的健康状况。
The guy showed a picture of him and his brother.
那家伙展示了他和他兄弟的照片。
He'd made it the home screen on his phone.
他已将其设为手机的主屏幕。
Tobin's mom, who you heard earlier, Vivian Low, told this story about a different family.
托宾的妈妈，你之前听说过，维维安·洛（Vivian Low）讲述了这个关于另一个家庭的故事。
So I had this woman who came in who brought her mom in.
所以我有一个女人进来了，她带了她妈妈进来。
And I looked at her health questionnaire and she had answered no to everything, that she never had an allergic reaction.
我查看了她的健康调查问卷，她对所有问题的回答都是“否”，她从未有过过敏反应。
She wasn't on any immunosuppressants.
她没有服用任何免疫抑制剂。
All the answers were no, and so I said, great, let's give you your shot.
所有的答案都是否定的，所以我说，太好了，让我们试试吧。
And so, I actually delivered the vaccine.
所以，我实际上交付了疫苗。
And as I was already injecting it into her mom's arm, her mom said, well, I'm glad that's over, because man, I had a really bad reaction to that flu vaccine.
当我已经把它注射到她妈妈的手臂里时，她妈妈说，好吧，我很高兴这一切都结束了，因为伙计，我对流感疫苗的反应非常糟糕。
Oh, no. Vivian Low And I said, you had an allergic, an anaphylactic reaction?
哦，不。 Vivian Low 我说，你有过敏反应吗？
I said, were you hospitalized?
我说你住院了吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
And then the daughter just jumped right in and said, mom, it's fine.
然后女儿就跳出来说，妈妈，没关系。
You were fine.
你很好。
This is irrelevant information.
这是无关紧要的信息。
You needed this vaccine.
You needed this vaccine.
You got this vaccine.
You got this vaccine.
The daughter was so intent on protecting her mom.
女儿一心想保护妈妈。
Iris has had uncomfortable situations, too.
艾里斯也遇到过不舒服的情况。
Like, this one guy had gone online, managed to get an appointment, but he wasn't diabetic.
就像，这个人上网成功预约了，但他没有糖尿病。
He didn't have a heart condition.
他没有心脏病。
He wasn't over 65.
He wasn't over 65.
If there's any reason she can find to legitimately give someone a shot, she wants to.
如果她能找到任何理由合法地给某人一个机会，她愿意。
And sometimes she gets people in by asking their height and weight to see if their BMI is 30 or over.
有时，她会通过询问人们的身高和体重来吸引他们，看看他们的 BMI 是否在 30 或以上。
His was 29.5.
His was 29.5.
She rounded up.
She rounded up.
So in his case, he was obese.
所以就他而言，他是肥胖的。
He was an overweight.
He was an overweight.
He was obese, so that's why I qualified him for the vaccine.
他很肥胖，所以我让他有资格接种疫苗。
And I like to say, I'm not trying to offend you, but you qualify.
我想说，我并不是想冒犯你，但你有资格。
And they're like, it's OK.
他们说，没关系。
For once, I'm happy to be overweight because that means I can get the vaccine.
这一次，我很高兴能够超重，因为这意味着我可以接种疫苗。
There can be an intimacy to this moment of getting the shot, I think because there's a way in which getting the shot is like passing through a portal-- out of this awful year.
我认为，在拍摄这张照片的那一刻可能会有一种亲密感，因为在某种程度上，拍摄照片就像穿过一个门户——摆脱了这糟糕的一年。
This other nurse, Amy Caramore in New York, told me she feels that way with every single shot.
另一位护士，纽约的艾米·卡拉莫尔（Amy Caramore）告诉我，她每次注射都有这种感觉。
I say, are you ready?
我说，你准备好了吗？
I always say, are you ready, which is a little bit-- which isn't just about, are you ready for me to put a needle in your arm, but is more about, are you ready for this?
我总是说，你准备好了吗？这不仅仅是说，你准备好让我在你的手臂上扎针了吗？更重要的是，你准备好了吗？
It's like, are you ready for the new world?
就像，你准备好迎接新世界了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
David Kestenbaum Is that what you mean?
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 你是这个意思吗？
Yeah, are you ready for something different?
是的，你准备好迎接不同的事情了吗？
And here we go.
我们开始吧。
We actually have a recording of someone getting a shot that kind of captures this.
我们实际上有一个某人拍摄的录音记录了这一点。
We put a mic on Tobin's mom out in California.
我们在加利福尼亚州的托宾妈妈身上安装了麦克风。
This man, James, gets sent to her.
这个男人，詹姆斯，被派去见她。
He'd gotten there way before his appointment.
他在预约之前就已经到了那里。
They go over the paperwork.
他们检查了文书工作。
Date of birth-- he's 82.
出生日期——82岁。
Old, he says.
老了，他说。
All right, just relax this arm.
好吧，放松这只手臂。
There you go.
就这样吧。
You're great.
你太棒了。
You've gotten flu shots before?
您以前接种过流感疫苗吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Vivian Low Yeah, so this is just like that.
Vivian Low 是的，就是这样。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Vivian Low That's it.
薇薇安·洛 就是这样。
You glad it's over?
结束了你很高兴吗？
Oh, boy.
哦，男孩。
Amy Caramore I had a young woman, and as I was going over the instructions, as I was going over the consent, she just burst into tears.
艾米·卡拉莫尔（Amy Caramore）我有一位年轻女士，当我仔细阅读说明和同意书时，她突然哭了起来。
Again, Amy in New York.
再次，艾米在纽约。
Amy Caramore And I put my hand on her shoulder, and I said, are you OK?
艾米·卡拉莫尔 我把手放在她的肩膀上，我说，你还好吗？
And she just said, I just am having a lot of feelings.
她只是说，我只是有很多感受。
I've just been so worried.
我刚才太担心了。
It's like the tension has been so taut.
就好像压力已经绷得很紧了。
It's been so tight, and everybody's been surviving with that.
情况非常紧张，每个人都在这样的情况下生存下来。
And then, we sit down in this moment together.
然后，我们在这一刻坐在一起。
And it's like, snap.
就像，啪。
But it's a big force.
但这是一股巨大的力量。
It's like, if you let go before, then everything was going to fall apart.
就好像，如果你之前放手，那么一切都会崩溃。
The whole world was going to fall apart.
整个世界都快要崩溃了。
And if you let go right now in this room, maybe not.
如果你现在在这个房间里放手，也许不会。
All the vaccinations end the same way, she says.
她说，所有疫苗接种都以同样的方式结束。
After people get their shot, they have to go to an observation area, just to make sure they don't have an allergic reaction.
人们注射疫苗后，必须前往观察区，以确保他们没有过敏反应。
It's funny because you're walking in-- I walk my person, right?
这很有趣，因为你走进来——我走进我的人，对吧？
Because I'm not going to just send them down the hall and say, good luck now.
因为我不会只是让他们到大厅去说“祝你好运”。
We just did this big thing.
我们刚刚做了一件大事。
So I walk my person to there, and they go-- usually a big smiley person at this point, right?
所以我陪我的人去那里，他们就走了——此时通常是一个笑容满面的人，对吗？
Because they're like, they survived the moment, you know?
因为他们就像，他们活了下来，你知道吗？
And they go walk into a room, and then the room is just a bunch of people sitting six feet apart, texting on their phones.
他们走进一个房间，然后房间里只有一群人，相距六英尺坐着，用手机发短信。
Yeah, it's exactly as you remember it-- a bunch of people sitting.
是的，正如你记忆中的那样——一群人坐着。
On their phones.
在他们的手机上。
Amy Caramore On their phones texting.
艾米·卡拉莫尔（Amy Caramore）用手机发短信。
We really should change that, she says.
“我们真的应该改变这一点，”她说。
Fill the room with balloons-- something.
用气球之类的东西填满房间。
David Kestenbaum is senior editor of our show.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 是我们节目的高级编辑。
Act Two, Penny for Your Non-Thoughts.
第二幕，佩妮为你的非思想。
We were talking here at the show about the theme of today's program-- what lies beneath the surface.
我们在展会上谈论了今天节目的主题——表面之下的东西。
One of our producers, Lilly Sullivan, mentioned something that a bunch of us know quite well-- that she wonders what happens beneath the surface in the mind of one of her friends who also works here at the radio show.
我们的一位制作人莉莉·沙利文（Lilly Sullivan）提到了我们很多人都非常了解的事情——她想知道她的一位同样在广播节目工作的朋友的内心深处发生了什么。
Over the years, she has talked to a number of us on staff about this.
多年来，她曾与我们的一些员工谈论过此事。
She's read articles trying to better understand.
她阅读了一些文章，试图更好地理解。
And finally, just this past week, once and for all, she tried to get to the bottom of it.
最后，就在上周，她试图一劳永逸地查出真相。
Here's Lilly.
这是莉莉。
Diane and I have worked together for four years.
黛安和我已经合作四年了。
We started at the show at the same time.
我们同时开始演出。
We were the junior staffers.
我们是初级职员。
And we became the kind of work friends where we had neighboring offices, so we'd overhear everything through the walls.
我们成了那种工作上的朋友，我们的办公室相邻，所以我们可以透过墙壁偷听一切。
We'd go into each other's offices, close the doors, pull down the blinds, and talk.
我们会走进彼此的办公室，关上门，拉下百叶窗，然后交谈。
We'd always sit on the ground because-- I don't know-- chairs felt weirdly formal.
我们总是坐在地上，因为——我不知道——椅子给人一种奇怪的正式感。
And then one day, she told me this thing.
然后有一天，她告诉我这件事。
She said, I don't introspect hardly ever, hardly at all-- meaning she spends almost no time looking inward.
她说，我几乎从不内省，几乎从不内省——这意味着她几乎没有花时间向内省察。
She doesn't really think about herself, her thoughts, her feelings about the world almost ever.
她几乎从来没有真正考虑过自己、她的想法、她对世界的感受。
This got so deep in my head.
这件事深深地印在我的脑海里。
To not introspect-- I didn't even know that was possible, as if there's a menu somewhere of ways to be.
不去反省——我什至不知道这是可能的，就好像在某个地方有一个菜单可以提供各种方法。
An introspection is just an option that one could choose or not choose.
内省只是一个人可以选择或不选择的一种选择。
I didn't even know there was a menu.
我什至不知道有菜单。
And how could it be true?
这怎么可能是真的呢？
I would watch her, confounded.
我会困惑地看着她。
Diane says insightful things.
黛安说了一些有见地的话。
She's considerate-- always considerate, by the way, exceedingly.
她很体贴——顺便说一句，她总是体贴得体贴，非常体贴。
And I'd think, how did she anticipate those needs?
我想，她是如何预见到这些需求的？
How did she have that insight?
她是怎么有这样的洞察力的？
She doesn't look inside.
她没有往里面看。
I assumed we were misunderstanding each other, that she must introspect.
我以为我们互相误解了，她必须反省。
She must reflect on all sorts of things.
她必须反思各种事情。
She just doesn't use the word "introspection" to describe it.
她只是没有用“内省”这个词来形容。
We're probably doing the same thing.
我们可能正在做同样的事情。
We just don't categorize it the same way.
我们只是不以同样的方式对其进行分类。
Diane says, no.
黛安说，不。
Well, since you started asking me about this, I've been thinking about it, you know?
好吧，自从你开始问我这个问题以来，我一直在思考这个问题，你知道吗？
And I knew we were going to talk about this.
我知道我们会讨论这个。
So walking into the grocery store the other night, I was walking in, and I was just like, what would I be thinking about if I were introspecting right now?
那天晚上，当我走进杂货店时，我就想，如果我现在正在反省，我会在想什么？
And I had no idea.
我不知道。
I was like, what could you possibly think about besides, there's some red shopping baskets.
我当时想，除了一些红色购物篮之外，你还能想到什么。
I'm going to take a red shopping basket.
我要去拿一个红色的购物篮。
Oh, this is a spinach mix.
哦，这是菠菜混合物。
Is it just spinach, or is there kale?
是只有菠菜还是有羽衣甘蓝？
That's literally all that's going on in my head.
这就是我脑子里正在发生的一切。
I can't imagine what else you could be thinking about.
我无法想象你还会想什么。
But I was like, I feel like I know if you are an introspective person, you could be, like, lost in your thoughts.
但我想，我觉得我知道如果你是一个内省的人，你可能会迷失在自己的想法中。
But I just can't be in the grocery store.
但我就是不能去杂货店。
Here's what I think about at the grocery store.
这是我在杂货店的想法。
I think, there's a red shopping basket.
我想，有一个红色的购物篮。
Should I get a basket or a cart?
我应该买篮子还是推车？
I don't like the rickety ones.
我不喜欢那些摇摇晃晃的。
I can't imagine shopping for a big family.
我无法想象为一个大家庭购物。
I wonder if I'll ever have a big family.
我想知道我是否会有一个大家庭。
That ship has probably sailed.
那艘船可能已经航行了。
It must be expensive.
一定很贵。
Why did my mom always ask the person bagging groceries to help her to her car?
为什么我妈妈总是让装杂货的人帮她上车？
Whatever happened to Volvos?
沃尔沃出了什么事？
I bit that hole in the headrest of her Volvo when I was five.
我五岁的时候咬了她沃尔沃的头枕上的那个洞。
Or was I four?
或者我是四岁？
She was so sad.
她很伤心。
Why was I like that?
我为什么会这样？
Is that guy looking at me?
那家伙在看着我吗？
Is he mad?
他疯了吗？
What's he mad about?
他在生气什么？
I wonder how much that cashier makes?
我想知道那个收银员赚多少钱？
Are people nice to her?
人们对她好吗？
It must take a long time to memorize all the codes to the produce so you don't need that sheet anymore.
记住产品的所有代码肯定需要很长时间，所以你不再需要那张纸了。
I'd be bad at it.
我会很糟糕。
Do people ask her if it's hard?
人们会问她辛苦吗？
Would she like that question or find it rude?
她会喜欢这个问题还是觉得这个问题很粗鲁？
A lot of my thoughts are just imagining other people's thoughts and feelings, all tangled up with my own.
我的很多想法只是想象别人的想法和感受，都与我自己的想法和感受纠缠在一起。
It's probably like 95% of what I think about.
这可能是我95%的想法。
Diane says she doesn't do that-- at all.
黛安说她根本不这样做。
And one of the reasons I believe her is that she remembers the moment that she first realized that her brain works this way.
我相信她的原因之一是她记得她第一次意识到她的大脑是这样运作的那一刻。
She told me that thinking about one's thoughts, or not thinking about them-- she was 24 before she realized it was a thing at all.
她告诉我，思考一个人的想法，或者不思考它们——她在 24 岁时才意识到这是一件事。
She was reading a book of essays by a doctor.
她正在读一本医生的散文集。
There was a story about a girl or young woman who almost died of flesh-eating bacteria from walking on some grass.
有一个故事是关于一个女孩或年轻女子在草地上行走时差点被食肉细菌杀死的。
And I immediately started panicking that I was going to get a flesh-eating bacteria also, which is not how I usually operate at all ever.
我立即开始惊慌，担心我也会感染食肉细菌，这根本不是我通常的做法。
And I burst into tears and was really upset about it.
我泪流满面，对此感到非常难过。
[LAUGHS] And my ex was like, what's going on?
[笑]我的前任说，发生了什么事？
Are you OK?
你还好吗？
And I was like, I just am worried that I'm going to die from flesh-eating bacteria.
我当时想，我只是担心我会死于食肉细菌。
And also, my parents are going to die one day.
而且，我的父母有一天也会去世。
It all just came rushing out.
一切都只是匆匆而出。
And I was really upset about it, and he was like, oh, wow, you don't spend any time at all thinking about this usually, do you?
我对此感到非常沮丧，他说，哦，哇，你通常不会花任何时间考虑这个，是吗？
And I was like, no, it's just something that reading this book made me realize that I'm going to die one day, and so are my parents.
我当时想，不，只是读这本书让我意识到我有一天会死，我的父母也是如此。
And I don't feel good about it.
我对此感觉不太好。
And he was like, oh, well, maybe if you were more introspective, like you took a couple of minutes every now and then, you wouldn't end up bursting in tears.
他说，哦，好吧，也许如果你更加内省一点，就像你时不时地花几分钟，你就不会最终泪流满面。
After that, Diane would occasionally try to force herself to sit down and introspect.
此后，黛安偶尔会强迫自己坐下来反省。
It always felt hard, she says.
她说，总是感觉很难。
Kind of fake and boring.
有点虚假和无聊。
And let's just dispel this categorically-- Diane is no dummy.
让我们明确地消除这一点——黛安不是傻瓜。
She's incredibly focused.
她非常专注。
You can go to her with a big, complicated story, and she can hold the whole thing in her head, immediately get how everything's connected.
你可以向她讲述一个大而复杂的故事，她可以把整个事情记在脑子里，立即明白一切是如何联系在一起的。
She also happens to have a PhD in inorganic chemistry from Stanford.
她还碰巧拥有斯坦福大学无机化学博士学位。
So she's not one to name drop.
所以她不是一个值得一提的人。
I asked Diane if we could try to do a rapid response game.
我问黛安我们是否可以尝试做一个快速反应游戏。
I wrote up some of my burning questions.
我写下了一些紧迫的问题。
Oh, fun.
哦，有趣。
OK, I'm ready.
好的，我准备好了。
OK.
好的。
Lilly Sullivan OK, here goes.
莉莉·沙利文 好的，开始了。
If you see something, does it pull up other random associations and memories?
如果你看到什么东西，它是否会唤起其他随机的联想和记忆？
Sometimes.
有时。
Rarely.
很少。
Lilly Sullivan And then does that memory lead to other random memories that then start coursing through your head?
莉莉·沙利文：然后，该记忆是否会导致其他随机记忆开始在您的脑海中流动？
No, just if I have one, it'll just be the one.
不，只要我有一个，那就是那个。
It'll hang out there for a little bit.
它会在那里挂一会儿。
OK.
好的。
Do you spend a lot of time feeling just mildly guilty or mildly regretful about a thing you said a few minutes ago?
你是否花了很多时间对几分钟前所说的事情感到轻微的内疚或轻微的后悔？
No, I don't.
不，我不。
Lilly Sullivan Hmm.
莉莉·沙利文 嗯。
Do you think about your opinions and why you have those opinions and whether you actually should have those opinions?
你是否思考过你的观点以及你为什么有这些观点以及你是否真的应该有这些观点？
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
I feel like I don't really-- this is not going to sound good, but I don't think I have that many opinions.
我觉得我真的——这听起来不太好，但我不认为我有那么多的意见。
Or if I do, they're not strongly held.
或者即使我这样做了，他们也没有被牢固地持有。
This did not help me get it.
这并没有帮助我得到它。
It confirmed for me that she doesn't think about all the things I think about.
这让我确信她并没有考虑我所想的所有事情。
But I still didn't get what she thinks about instead.
但我还是不明白她到底在想什么。
What is going through her head?
她脑子里在想什么？
And I understand how stonery this all sounds.
我明白这一切听起来多么荒唐。
We tried to describe to each other our experiences of consciousness.
我们试图向彼此描述我们的意识体验。
Sorry, everyone.
对不起，大家。
First, me.
首先是我。
I think it feels more like a washing machine of thoughts jumbled up, and I'm jumping from one thing to another, but it's just all in there, mixed together, going and going all the time.
我觉得这感觉更像是一台杂乱的思想洗衣机，我从一件事跳到另一件事，但一切都在那里，混合在一起，一直在转。
Does that feel familiar?
是不是感觉很熟悉？
Not at all.
一点也不。
I think it sounds like you.
我觉得这听起来像你。
But I don't think it sounds like me.
但我觉得这听起来不像我。
OK, I feel like-- so can we, like-- could you try to think?
好吧，我觉得——我们也可以——你能试着思考一下吗？
And, like, if you had to describe what it's like-- because when I was thinking about this, I was like, oh, I wonder what appliance Diane would be.
而且，就像，如果你必须描述它是什么样的 - 因为当我想到这个时，我就想，哦，我想知道黛安会是什么样的设备。
If you were to think for a second about--
如果你想一想——
I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is, I feel like a video camera that's just pointing to different things in the world.
我的意思是，我首先想到的是，我感觉自己就像一台摄像机，指向世界上不同的事物。
And it goes in.
它进去了。
Most of it doesn't stay very long and goes right back out.
大部分不会停留很长时间，然后就会消失。
Wow, OK.
哇，好吧。
And the thing that it's pointing at, is it pointing at thoughts in your head, or is it pointing at actual things in the world?
它所指向的东西，是指向你头脑中的想法，还是指向世界上的实际事物？
The actual things in the world-- very literally, like if my eyes were a camera.
世界上真实的事物——非常字面意思，就像我的眼睛是一台相机一样。
Yeah.
是的。
So the video-- so do you just mean your eyes?
那么视频——那么你指的是你的眼睛吗？
It's like-- yeah, I think it's like, I spend 90% of my brain just taking in the inputs and--
就像——是的，我想就像，我花了 90% 的大脑来接收输入——
Wow.
哇。
Diane Wu It's really-- I mean, even in quiet moments, which I feel like I've had a ton of lately, I just end up staring out the window.
吴黛安：这真的是——我的意思是，即使在安静的时刻，我觉得我最近经历了很多，我最终也只是盯着窗外。
And I'm not thinking about anything.
我什么也没想。
I'm just observing the world around me.
我只是在观察周围的世界。
Huh.
呵呵。
Is it nice?
好看吗？
What does it feel like?
感觉如何？
I think before we started talking about all of this, I thought it was bad.
我想在我们开始谈论这一切之前，我认为这很糟糕。
I thought there was too much space in my head that was going to waste or something.
我以为我脑子里有太多的空间会被浪费掉或者什么的。
But now that we've been talking about it, it is nice to have room.
但现在我们已经在谈论它了，有空间真是太好了。
I feel like it lets me-- I feel generally sensitive to the world around me and to other people.
我觉得它让我对周围的世界和其他人感到普遍敏感。
And I think it's actually kind of nice that there is room to let the world in.
我认为有空间让世界进来实际上是件好事。
It was like I had thought all humans were land creatures and that I kind of, more or less, understood our species.
就好像我以为所有人类都是陆地生物，而且我或多或少地了解我们这个物种。
And then I found out that there are people who live in the ocean instead.
然后我发现有人住在海洋里。
And I know that I'll never live in the ocean.
我知道我永远不会住在海洋里。
But now that Diane's explained it to me, put what's in her head into mine, I can imagine it.
但现在黛安已经向我解释过了，把她脑子里的想法放进我的脑子里，我就可以想象了。
I spent the weekend just moving my eyes around my apartment, landing on different objects, just blinking.
整个周末我都在我的公寓里移动眼睛，落在不同的物体上，只是眨眼睛。
Lilly Sullivan and Diane Wu are both producers on our show.
莉莉·沙利文和黛安·吴都是我们节目的制片人。
Coming up, what lurks beneath the surface of a sunny California afternoon if you had the kind of job that lets you see it.
接下来，如果你有一份能让你看到的工作，在阳光明媚的加州下午的表面下潜藏着什么。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, What Lies Beneath.
今天的节目是《背后是什么》。
We have stories of stuff that is usually hidden from view coming to the surface.
我们有一些故事，这些故事通常是隐藏在视线之外的，但现在却浮出水面。
We have arrived at act three of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第三幕了。
Act Three, One if By Land, Three if By Sea.
第三幕，陆路第一幕，海上第三幕。
So it's a conceit of a certain kind of story that, in one day, you can glimpse the entire world.
所以这是某种故事的自负，有一天，你可以瞥见整个世界。
This next story is kind of like that.
下一个故事与此类似。
Somebody catches a glimpse of something bigger in just three hours of a typical workday.
有人在典型工作日的短短三个小时内瞥见了更大的东西。
Producer Dana Chivvis tells the story.
制片人达纳·奇维斯讲述了这个故事。
A few weeks ago, I was calling around, talking to paramedics and EMTs in California.
几周前，我四处打电话，与加州的护理人员和急救人员交谈。
At the time, COVID cases had skyrocketed, and I wanted to see how the first responders were doing.
当时，新冠病例激增，我想看看急救人员的情况如何。
I talked to this one guy, Sam Gebler.
我和萨姆·盖伯勒（Sam Gebler）聊过。
He's a firefighter and paramedic in San Francisco.
他是旧金山的一名消防员和护理人员。
And he told me the story.
他告诉了我这个故事。
It actually happened back in August, all in one day, one of those perfect sunny days.
它实际上发生在八月，一天之内，那是完美的阳光明媚的日子之一。
Tons of people were outside that afternoon, enjoying the weather.
那天下午，很多人都在外面享受着美好的天气。
And Sam was looking down at a woman who was caught on a cliff.
山姆正低头看着一个被困在悬崖上的女人。
Where was the woman?
那个女人在哪里？
Sam Gebler She was probably 250 feet down the cliff.
Sam Gebler 她大概距离悬崖 250 英尺。
And it was kind of one of those things where she was standing-- it wasn't super steep.
这就是她所站的地方之一——它并不是非常陡峭。
She could stand in balance, but there's no way to get down there.
她可以保持平衡，但没有办法落到那里。
Honestly, to this day, I don't know how she made it down that far in that spot.
老实说，直到今天，我都不知道她是如何走到那么远的地方的。
It just didn't make any sense.
这根本没有任何意义。
And she had some scrapes and bruises on her, so I'm assuming she fell at some point and just happened, instead of rolling down the cliff into the water, she rolled on to this fairly flat spot with a rock to hold onto, which--
她身上有一些擦伤和瘀伤，所以我猜想她是在某个时候摔倒的，只是碰巧发生了，她没有从悬崖上滚到水里，而是滚到了这个相当平坦的地方，有一块岩石可以抓住，这——
Wow.
哇。
Sam Gebler --was incredibly lucky because, with her in that state, there's no way she would have survived if she went into the water.
萨姆·盖伯勒（Sam Gebler）非常幸运，因为在她那种状态下，如果她掉进水里，她就不可能生还。
How far down was the water from where she was?
水离她所在的地方有多远？
Probably another 50 feet.
可能还有 50 英尺。
Dana Chivvis The woman looked fairly young, late 20s, early 30s.
达纳·奇夫维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 这位女士看起来相当年轻，二十岁末、三十岁出头。
And she was in a state like maybe she'd hit her head, or she was intoxicated.
她的状态就像是撞到了头，或者是喝醉了。
It wasn't clear.
目前还不清楚。
She wasn't answering questions.
她没有回答问题。
Sam's fire station covers an area of the city that includes beaches, Golden Gate Park, and these cliffs west of the Golden Gate Bridge, where people go hiking.
山姆的消防站覆盖了城市的一个区域，包括海滩、金门公园以及金门大桥以西的悬崖，人们可以在那里徒步旅行。
So Sam and another firefighter put on face masks and harnesses, clipped into ropes, and lowered themselves down to her.
于是萨姆和另一名消防员戴上面罩和安全带，夹上绳子，然后向她俯身。
When they got there, the woman was clearly in distress, but not because she was stuck on the side of the cliff.
当他们到达那里时，这名女子显然很痛苦，但并不是因为她被困在悬崖边。
I remember her saying a lot about how COVID has taken everything from her, and this disease is messing with her mind.
我记得她说了很多关于新冠病毒如何夺走了她的一切，这种疾病正在扰乱她的思想。
And she doesn't know what to do and just being so overwhelmed at whatever-- I didn't ever get specifics of what she was doing before COVID or what her life was like, but she just kept saying, this disease is messing with me.
她不知道该怎么办，而且对任何事情都感到不知所措——我不知道她在感染新冠病毒之前做了什么，也不知道她的生活是什么样的，但她只是一直说，这种疾病困扰着我。
I don't know what I'm doing.
我不知道我在做什么。
I don't have any reason to live, just all this crazy stuff.
我没有任何活下去的理由，只有这些疯狂的东西。
And in your mind, you're like, man.
在你看来，你就像，伙计。
I mean, this is crazy, what it's doing to people.
我的意思是，这对人们造成的影响太疯狂了。
They put her in a harness and clipped her into the ropes.
他们给她套上安全带，然后把她夹在绳子里。
The rescuers up above started hauling the three of them back up the incline.
上面的救援人员开始将他们三人拖回斜坡上。
But the woman was grabbing onto the rope, which is the intuitive thing to do when you're hanging off the side of a cliff, but it's actually really dangerous.
但那个女人抓住了绳子，这是当你挂在悬崖边时直觉会做的事情，但实际上非常危险。
The thing you're supposed to do is lean back, trust your harness and the ropes to hold you, and let your rescuers haul you back up.
你应该做的就是向后靠，相信你的安全带和绳索能支撑你，让救援人员把你拉回来。
She wasn't doing that, and she wasn't in the right state of mind.
她没有这样做，而且她的心态也不正确。
And so you're fighting this person to not climb up the rope, but to also walk their legs up the cliff.
所以你与这个人战斗，不是为了爬上绳子，而是为了让他们的腿走上悬崖。
Right.
正确的。
Sam Gebler It's incredibly difficult with someone who isn't really able to follow commands.
Sam Gebler 对于一个不能真正遵守命令的人来说，这是非常困难的。
I mean, you're basically like a therapist at the edge of a cliff on a 250-foot cliff, trying to treat this person enough to get her up the cliff without getting yourself hurt.
我的意思是，你基本上就像一个在 250 英尺高的悬崖边缘的治疗师，试图对这个人进行足够的治疗，以便让她爬上悬崖而不让自己受伤。
I mean, it's really--
我的意思是，这真的是——
Oh my god.
天哪。
Sam Gebler Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Sam Gebler 是的，这有点疯狂。
There were multiple times when I was getting frustrated.
有很多次我感到沮丧。
And I just needed to stop and calm myself down and look back and like, oh, wow, that looks really cool.
我只需要停下来让自己平静下来，然后回头看看，哦，哇，这看起来真的很酷。
And then, OK, all right.
然后，好吧，好吧。
All right, stop talking about that.
好吧，别再说这个了。
We're going to do one foot in front of the other now.
现在我们要把一只脚放在另一只脚前面。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
One foot in front of the other.
一只脚在另一只脚前面。
Trust your rescuers, or you might fall backwards off a cliff.
相信你的救援人员，否则你可能会向后跌落悬崖。
It feels applicable to all of us right now, trying to make it through this pandemic.
它感觉适用于我们现在正在努力度过这场大流行的所有人。
It worked for Sam and this woman.
这对山姆和这个女人很有效。
With a lot of effort, they made it back up the slope.
经过一番努力，他们又回到了斜坡上。
They put the woman into an ambulance and started driving back to the firehouse.
他们将这名女子送上救护车，然后开始返回消防站。
And that's when we hear on the radio, stand by for the surf rescue.
就在那时，我们从广播中听到，准备进行冲浪救援。
Someone had spotted three kids in the water at a beach nearby.
有人在附近海滩的水中发现了三个孩子。
They seemed like they were in trouble.
他们似乎遇到了麻烦。
The currents at that beach are really strong.
那个海滩的水流真的很强。
They can be deceptive.
他们可能具有欺骗性。
So he puts a U-turn on the street, and we start going back to the beach.
于是他在街上掉头，我们开始返回海滩。
So I'm peeling off my harness and dirty clothes and trying to get into my wetsuit.
所以我脱掉安全带和脏衣服，试图穿上潜水服。
And I don't know if you've ever gotten into a wetsuit, but it's kind of difficult, especially when you're sweaty.
我不知道你是否曾经穿上潜水衣，但这有点困难，尤其是当你出汗的时候。
It's sticky, and you're in the back of a fire engine that's driving code three to the beach.
天气很粘，你坐在一辆消防车的后面，消防车正将三号消防车开往海滩。
It's quite the spectacle.
真是奇观啊。
So we show up, and it's just a sea of people.
所以我们出现了，那里只是人山人海。
I've never seen this many people at the beach before.
我以前从来没有在海滩上见过这么多人。
It's a nice day during a pandemic.
这是疫情期间美好的一天。
There's nothing else to do but go outside.
没有别的事可做，只能出去。
Sam told me when paramedics see crowds like that, they know they're going to have a busy day.
萨姆告诉我，当护理人员看到这样的人群时，他们知道他们将度过忙碌的一天。
The road is high above the beach, and from there, Sam can see three little dots in the water.
道路高出海滩，山姆从那里可以看到水中的三个小点。
He makes a mental note of where they are.
他在心里记下了他们在哪里。
Then he and about seven or eight other firefighters hop into the back of a special pickup truck for surf rescues.
然后他和其他大约七八名消防员跳进一辆特殊皮卡车的后部进行冲浪救援。
It's got lifesaving equipment like surf boards on it.
上面有冲浪板等救生设备。
And they drive down to the beach.
他们开车去海滩。
Sam heads straight into the water, but from there, he can't see the kids anymore.
山姆直接进入水中，但从那里，他再也看不到孩子们了。
The waves are too high.
波浪太高了。
So he starts swimming in the direction of where he'd seen them from above.
于是他开始朝他从上面看到他们的方向游去。
I didn't realize that as I was getting into the water, that my captain, who had gotten to a higher perch, was screaming at us to not go in the water.
我没有意识到，当我进入水中时，我的船长已经到达更高的位置，正在尖叫着让我们不要下水。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Sam Gebler I didn't realize that he was yelling at us.
Sam Gebler 我没有意识到他在对我们大喊大叫。
And luckily, I didn't hear him because I might not have gone.
幸运的是，我没有听到他的声音，因为我可能没有走。
Why was he saying don't go in the water, though?
但他为什么说不要下水呢？
He saw how far out that the people had gotten sucked out into the channel, and he thought it was too dangerous for us to--
他看到人们被吸到了多远的海峡里，他认为这对我们来说太危险了——
I see.
我明白了。
Sam Gebler --go out there.
萨姆·盖伯勒——出去吧。
It was too far of a swim for us.
对我们来说，游泳太远了。
So I swim out there.
所以我就去那里游泳。
And the first person that I see is this kid, who he looks like 13, 14, maybe 15 years old.
我看到的第一个人就是这个孩子，他看起来13岁、14岁，也许15岁。
And he's bobbing up and down by the rocks.
他在岩石边上上下下。
It looked like he was trying to get out.
看起来他正试图出去。
And I'm like, hey, are you OK?
我说，嘿，你还好吗？
And he said, ah, I'm stuck.
他说，啊，我被困住了。
It's like, OK.
就像，好吧。
Grab onto this.
抓住这个。
We throw him a little floaty device that we swim with, like the things you see on Baywatch that the lifeguards carry.
我们扔给他一个游泳用的小漂浮装置，就像你在海滩救护队中看到的救生员携带的东西一样。
Yeah.
是的。
Sam Gebler So we throw him the device and pull him away from the rocks.
山姆·盖伯勒（Sam Gebler）于是我们把装置扔给他，把他从岩石上拉开。
And I'm like, hey, what happened?
我想，嘿，发生了什么事？
And he's like, oh, these two girls were in, and I tried to get in to help them out.
他就像，哦，这两个女孩都在，我试图进去帮助她们。
And I was like, oh, so there are two more people.
我当时想，哦，原来还有两个人。
He's like, yeah.
他就像是的。
I was like, OK, where did they go?
我当时想，好吧，他们去哪儿了？
And he's like, they went that way.
他说，他们就那样走了。
So he just pointed out--
所以他只是指出——
Which way did he point?
他指的是哪个方向？
Sam Gebler He pointed to the open ocean, and I couldn't see shit.
Sam Gebler 他指着大海，但我什么也看不见。
So I'm like, OK.
所以我想，好吧。
Now I'm calculating in my mind, I can't see where these people are.
现在我心里盘算着，我根本看不到这些人在哪里。
I've got one patient with me.
我身边有一位病人。
I can't just leave him.
我不能就这么离开他。
What do I do?
我该怎么办？
Two other rescuers swim up at that moment and take over.
这时另外两名救援人员游了过来并接手。
They may be 100 yards out at this point.
此时他们可能在 100 码之外。
Sam starts swimming into the open ocean.
山姆开始游进公海。
He's swimming and swimming and swimming.
他在游啊游啊游啊。
He's getting tired, a little scared.
他有点累了，还有点害怕。
And now, I'm like, man, I'm getting pretty far out here and thinking about trying to make it back in.
现在，我想，伙计，我已经离开这里很远了，正在考虑尝试重返家园。
And then I see one of my co-workers, who is a really good surfer and a good swimmer.
然后我看到了我的一位同事，他是一位非常出色的冲浪者和游泳者。
And he's booking it on this surfboard.
他在这个冲浪板上预订了它。
And I figured, obviously, he can see something that I can't, and I just change my angle to that line.
我想，显然，他可以看到我看不到的东西，我只是改变了对那条线的角度。
It was him and another guy out there.
那是他和外面的另一个人。
And we all kind of get out there, and they found the two girls.
我们都出去了，他们找到了那两个女孩。
So, one of them was in the water, still with their head above water.
所以，其中一个人在水里，头仍然露出水面。
She was treading water OK.
她踩水还好。
And the other one wasn't there anymore.
而另一个人已经不在了。
And one of them reached down and grabbed her as she was sinking underwater.
当她沉入水下时，其中一个人伸手抓住了她。
It's a very weird situation because you don't know how long she's been under.
这是一个非常奇怪的情况，因为你不知道她已经被困多久了。
So you just have this fear-- not fear, but this picture in your head of how bad it could be.
所以你只是有这种恐惧——不是恐惧，而是你脑海中浮现出情况可能有多糟糕的画面。
The girl's lips were blue.
女孩的嘴唇是蓝色的。
She wasn't breathing, wasn't conscious.
她没有呼吸，没有知觉。
And we pull her onto the board.
我们把她拉到板上。
We have this technique where we flip them onto the board and so she's out of the water.
我们有这样的技术，将它们翻转到板上，这样她就脱离了水面。
She's on the surfboard, the rescue board.
她在冲浪板上，在救援板上。
And she's not breathing.
而且她没有呼吸了。
We do some-- trying to do CPR in the water when you're just--
我们做了一些——尝试在你只是——的时候在水中进行心肺复苏——
Geez.
天啊。
Sam Gebler --treading water is ridiculous.
Sam Gebler——踩水是荒谬的。
It's not very effective.
这不是很有效。
So you and your friend are in the water, and she's on the board.
所以你和你的朋友在水里，而她在船上。
And you're doing CPR from the water?
你在水中进行心肺复苏吗？
So it's really a team effort on having people stabilize the board while other people are trying to bob up and push down on CPR and then bob back down under the water.
因此，这实际上是一个团队的努力，让人们稳定住木板，而其他人则试图向上和向下按压心肺复苏，然后再回到水下。
I mean, you're almost like--
我的意思是，你几乎就像——
Oh my God.
天哪。
Sam Gebler --trying to propel yourself up out of the water to try and get some leverage and do some effective CPR.
Sam Gebler——试图将自己推离水面，尝试获得一些杠杆作用并进行有效的心肺复苏。
CPR, after all, involves pressing down hard on someone's chest.
毕竟，心肺复苏需要用力按压某人的胸部。
But they're not above her.
但他们并不在她之上。
They're in the water next to the surfboard, bobbing up and down.
它们在冲浪板旁边的水中上下浮动。
Yeah, you're out in the middle of the ocean-- not the middle of the ocean.
是的，你是在大海的中央——而不是大海的中央。
But you're way, way far away from the shore.
但你离海岸很远很远。
You can't see the shore anymore.
你再也看不到海岸了。
And you're focused on the patient.
而且你的注意力集中在病人身上。
You're like, all right, how do I get this person to breathe again?
你会想，好吧，我怎样才能让这个人再次呼吸呢？
And somehow, she just started coughing up all that water.
不知何故，她开始咳出所有的水。
And I just remember the heaving, just the whole-- all the muscles just contracting and just the disgusting heaving and coughing of all this water coming up, up out of her mouth.
我只记得整个的起伏——所有的肌肉都在收缩，所有的水从她嘴里涌出来，令人恶心的起伏和咳嗽。
And you're just like, holy shit.
而你就像，天哪。
This is real.
这是真的。
So now both girls are on surfboards.
现在两个女孩都在冲浪板上。
Sam says they were probably 1,000 yards out from the shore at that point, a current pulling them further and further from shore.
萨姆说，当时他们距离海岸可能有 1,000 码，一股水流将他们拉得离海岸越来越远。
This is something I'll never forget, just sitting in the water there and having this person who I don't know vigorously cough into my face.
这是我永远不会忘记的事情，只是坐在水里，让这个我不认识的人对着我的脸剧烈咳嗽。
And I don't have a mask on, and she doesn't have a mask on, because we're in the ocean.
我没有戴口罩，她也没有戴口罩，因为我们在海里。
There's no mask in the ocean.
海里没有面具。
And I just remember thinking, man.
我只记得我在想，伙计。
I really hope she doesn't have COVID.
我真的希望她没有感染新冠病毒。
[LAUGHTER] And it's like, there's so many other things to be thinking about right now.
[笑声] 就像，现在还有很多其他事情需要考虑。
Like, this person almost drowned, and we're still in a dangerous position.
就像，这个人差点被淹死，而我们仍然处于危险的境地。
We're getting sucked out into the shipping lane.
我们正被卷入航道。
I can't see the beach anymore.
我再也看不到海滩了。
I don't know where we are.
我不知道我们在哪里。
I don't know who's going to come get us.
我不知道谁会来接我们。
Oh my God.
我的天啊。
Sam Gebler I'll try not to get eaten by a shark.
Sam Gebler 我会尽量不被鲨鱼吃掉。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Right.
正确的。
Literally, right?
从字面上看，对吧？
There's sharks there.
那里有鲨鱼。
Yeah, I mean, there's a ton of sharks out there, especially in the deep water, where we're getting sucked out to.
是的，我的意思是，那里有很多鲨鱼，尤其是在深水中，我们会被吸到那里。
And so, I'm just amazed at myself thinking about COVID in a situation like this, you know?
所以，我对自己在这种情况下思考新冠病毒感到惊讶，你知道吗？
And I'll never forget looking over to my coworker.
我永远不会忘记看着我的同事。
And we just kind of looked at each other as she's coughing in our face.
当她在我们面前咳嗽时，我们只是互相看着对方。
And I can see it all over his face, too.
我也可以从他的脸上看到这一点。
And we just had that nonverbal communication, where we're both like, oh, damn.
我们只是进行了非语言交流，我们都觉得，哦，该死。
I can't imagine anything that's more pandemic 2020 than being swept out to sea in shark-infested water and still not being able to escape the anxiety of COVID.
我无法想象 2020 年还有什么比在鲨鱼出没的水中被冲入大海，却仍然无法摆脱新冠病毒带来的焦虑更严重的事情了。
Seriously, right?
说真的，对吧？
I mean, that was like-- we've had plenty of surf rescues and cliff rescues before, but this COVID thing is new.
我的意思是，这就像——我们之前已经进行过很多冲浪救援和悬崖救援，但这次新冠疫情是新的。
And it's the difficulty of calls and the stress of calls is much higher than normal.
而且就是通话的难度和通话的压力比平时要高很多。
I mean, you could have had 30 calls a year ago.
我的意思是，一年前你可能会接到 30 个电话。
And it would be less stressful than having 15 calls in this new COVID era.
在新冠疫情时代，这比接 15 个电话的压力还要小。
The kids were OK, by the way, and Sam didn't get COVID.
顺便说一句，孩子们都很好，山姆也没有感染新冠病毒。
But for so many of us, the specter of COVID is always peering over our shoulders, intensifying everything we do, from the most extreme activities-- the surf rescue, a cliff rescue-- to the most banal-- grocery shopping, a teeth cleaning.
但对我们很多人来说，新冠病毒的幽灵总是在我们身后窥视着我们，加剧了我们所做的一切，从最极端的活动——冲浪救援、悬崖救援——到最平庸的活动——买菜、刷牙。
That anxiety is the ether we exist in now.
那种焦虑就是我们现在存在的以太。
There is one thing that's given Sam some comfort recently-- the vaccine.
最近有一件事给了山姆一些安慰——疫苗。
A few weeks ago, he had his second dose.
几周前，他注射了第二剂疫苗。
He said it lifted a lot of stress for him.
他说这给他减轻了很大的压力。
Now he only has to deal with fires, sharks, cliffs, people who've stopped breathing-- you know, regular work stuff.
现在他只需要处理火灾、鲨鱼、悬崖、停止呼吸的人——你知道，日常工作的事情。
Dana Chivvis is one of the producers of our show.
达纳·奇夫维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 是我们节目的制片人之一。
Act Four, Boiling Under.
第四幕，沸腾。
So lots of things can go unspoken between family members, sometimes for years, sometimes forever.
因此，家庭成员之间有很多事情可以不言而喻，有时长达数年，有时甚至永远。
And we had this idea that it would be interesting to do a story where a parent talks to their grown-up kid about something the parent wanted to talk about for a while but never had.
我们的想法是，制作一个故事，让父母与成年的孩子谈论一些他们想谈论一段时间但从未谈论过的事情，这会很有趣。
And we recorded a couple of these with different families.
我们为不同的家庭录制了其中一些。
And the one that was the most interesting was this one.
最有趣的是这个。
This is weirdly-- I'm very nervous about this, dad.
这很奇怪——我对此非常紧张，爸爸。
I am, too, to a degree.
我在某种程度上也是如此。
Ira Glass This is Chris Gethard and his dad, Ken Gethard.
艾拉·格拉斯 这是克里斯·格哈德和他的父亲肯·格哈德。
Because you and I don't really-- we have a really good relationship.
因为你和我的关系并不是真的很好。
We don't sit down and have personal conversations that often, though.
不过，我们并不经常坐下来进行私人谈话。
Chris has been on our show now and then.
克里斯时不时地出现在我们的节目中。
He's a comedian.
他是一位喜剧演员。
And his father wanted to talk to Chris about Chris's depression.
他的父亲想和克里斯谈谈克里斯的抑郁症。
Chris has depression.
克里斯患有抑郁症。
He's talked about it on stage and on his podcast.
他在舞台上和播客上谈论过这个问题。
He did a one-man show on HBO about it, which makes his dad feel bad, probably because Chris is talking publicly about stuff that the two of them have never really discussed.
他在 HBO 上做了一个关于这件事的独角戏，这让他的父亲感觉很糟糕，可能是因为克里斯公开谈论的是他们两人从未真正讨论过的事情。
Chris didn't reveal his depression to his parents until he was in his early 20s and had an incident where he nearly died.
克里斯直到二十岁出头的时候才向父母透露了自己的抑郁症，并经历了一次险些丧命的事件。
And then a friend, more or less, forced him to tell his family.
然后一位朋友或多或少强迫他告诉家人。
And his dad had questions about all that.
他的父亲对这一切都有疑问。
Chris came into the studio having no idea what his dad wanted to ask about.
克里斯走进工作室时不知道他爸爸想问什么。
And they sat down.
他们坐下了。
And I don't know, maybe we should have expected this.
我不知道，也许我们应该预料到这一点。
His dad didn't just jump right in with the stuff that he wanted to talk about.
他的父亲并没有直接插话他想谈论的事情。
That's too heavy.
那太重了。
Well, the first one is actually a question from mom.
嗯，第一个问题其实是妈妈的问题。
Ken asked Chris about pro wrestling.
肯向克里斯询问职业摔跤的情况。
He asked about sports.
他询问了有关体育的问题。
And I'm just-- why are you-- why are you such an NBA fan, rather than a pro baseball fan?
我只是——你为什么——为什么你是这样的NBA球迷，而不是职业棒球迷？
They talked about their old neighborhood in New Jersey.
他们谈论了新泽西州的老邻居。
Ken told Chris how much he hates celebrity endorsements.
肯告诉克里斯他有多么讨厌名人代言。
Would Chris ever do a celebrity endorsement?
克里斯会做名人代言吗？
Would Chris ever do a sex scene in a movie, a nude scene in a movie?
克里斯会在电影中出现性爱场景、裸体场景吗？
This continued for an hour.
这持续了一个小时。
And then finally--
然后最后——
Hey listen, there's a couple questions I definitely do want to hit.
嘿听着，有几个问题我确实想回答。
So let's go to them.
那么让我们去找他们吧。
I don't want to run out of time.
我不想时间不够了。
And then Ken brought up Chris's depression.
然后肯提到了克里斯的抑郁症。
He wanted to know why Chris took so long to tell his parents about it.
他想知道为什么克里斯花了这么长时间才告诉他的父母这件事。
Well, when you finally told mom-- and that was, what, towards the end of college--
好吧，当你最终告诉妈妈——那就是，大学快结束时——
Yeah, I think that was.
是的，我想就是这样。
Ken Gethard Absolutely floored us.
肯·格哈德（Ken Gethard）绝对让我们震惊。
I mean, we had zero clue.
我的意思是，我们的线索为零。
Yeah.
是的。
Ken Gethard And on one hand, we're like the guilt.
肯·格哈德（Ken Gethard） 一方面，我们感到内疚。
We got to protect you.
我们必须保护你。
Why couldn't we see this?
为什么我们看不到这个？
But on the other hand, it's like, why didn't he come to us?
但另一方面，又想，他为什么不来找我们？
Even now, you're like that, Chris.
即使现在，你还是那样，克里斯。
There was something on the web a couple of years ago was something.
几年前，网络上有一些东西。
This is what I look like on a bad day, when I'm feeling depressed.
这就是我在心情不好、心情沮丧时的样子。
Yeah.
是的。
Ken Gethard And you said something to the effect, I'll tell my wife, I'll tell my brother, but I'll never let my parents see me like this.
肯·格哈德：你说的大意是，我会告诉我的妻子，我会告诉我的兄弟，但我永远不会让我的父母看到我这个样子。
And that was after we've known.
那是在我们知道之后。
So even then, now, it's like sticking out there.
所以即使在那时，现在，它就像坚持在那里。
Yeah, I don't know why.
是的，我不知道为什么。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I guess, it would make me feel like I was letting you guys down in some way or failing in some way.
我想，这会让我觉得我在某种程度上让你们失望了或者在某种程度上失败了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Yeah, but mom and I would be the first two there to help you and do whatever it took to--
是的，但是妈妈和我会是最先去帮助你的两个人，并尽一切努力——
I don't know why I've never been comfortable with you guys seeing me like that or knowing that side of me so well.
我不知道为什么我对你们这样看我或如此了解我的那一面感到不舒服。
But I just felt like it was a thing to hide.
但我只是觉得这是一件需要隐藏的事情。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
Because you guys did-- as soon as I told you, it was like everyone went into this mode where I was so supported.
因为你们做到了——我一告诉你们，就好像每个人都进入了这种模式，我得到了如此多的支持。
And I had always assumed that if I ever told anybody about it, I was going to be on my own.
我一直以为，如果我告诉任何人这件事，我只能靠自己了。
Whereas when I kind of hit rock bottom and started talking to you guys about it, it was like instantaneously the safest I ever felt.
然而，当我跌入谷底并开始与你们谈论这件事时，这就像我瞬间感受到的最安全的感觉。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I'm glad you felt that way, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from on this, too.
好吧，我很高兴你有这样的感觉，但我希望你也能理解我的观点。
Yeah, no, I wish I talked to you guys about it sooner.
是的，不，我希望早点和你们谈谈这件事。
I wish.
我希望。
And you did a fantastic job of hiding it from mom and I, which I have all amounts of guilt over--
你对我和妈妈隐瞒了这件事，做得非常出色，对此我感到非常内疚——
--you don't have to.
——你不必这样做。
You don't have that many guilts over that.
你没有那么多的愧疚。
I mean, I was so good at hiding it, so good at hiding it.
我的意思是，我非常善于隐藏它，非常善于隐藏它。
And I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
I don't know why I never let you and mom know about that.
我不知道为什么我从来没有让你和妈妈知道这件事。
It's just not my instinct.
这不是我的本能。
My instinct is that that's going to worry you guys so much, and you're going to have to sit around and then be scared about me, and I don't want you doing that.
我的直觉是，这会让你们非常担心，你们将不得不坐在那里，然后害怕我，我不希望你们这样做。
And I always figured maybe I could push through it, or it would pass.
我一直认为也许我可以挺过去，或者它会过去。
Or even I felt like maybe I'm just a moody kid.
或者甚至我觉得我可能只是一个喜怒无常的孩子。
Yeah, if you're feeling bad, you need help and stuff like that, Chris, I would like you to come to us at any point in time.
是的，如果你感觉不好，你需要帮助之类的东西，克里斯，我希望你可以随时来找我们。
But I'm not a professional.
但我不是专业人士。
I don't know what to tell you.
我不知道该告诉你什么。
I don't know if I'm making sense.
我不知道我说的是否有道理。
I want to be there, but I don't want to tell you something wrong either.
我想去那里，但我也不想告诉你一些错误的事情。
That's always in the back of my head.
这一直在我的脑海里。
It's like, oh God, if he comes to me-- you know.
就像，天哪，如果他来找我——你知道的。
[LAUGHTER] Am I going to tell him something, and all of a sudden, he's going to be worse?
[笑声] 我是不是要告诉他一些事情，然后他突然变得更糟了？
Yeah.
是的。
Ken Gethard I'm scared.
肯·格哈德 我很害怕。
I don't think I want you coming to me-- dad, I'm upset.
我想我不想让你来找我——爸爸，我很难过。
I need you to talk me.
我需要你跟我说话。
I wouldn't know what to say.
我不知道该说什么。
That's what you have a professional for, you know?
这就是你找专业人士的目的，你知道吗？
And it's-- does that make sense anywhere there?
这在任何地方都有意义吗？
Yeah.
是的。
No, because I know that.
不，因为我知道这一点。
I know that's the truth.
我知道这是事实。
I know that's the truth.
我知道这是事实。
I know you're not the guy to talk about that.
我知道你不是谈论这个的人。
It's part of what made it very hard to say it.
这也是很难说出口的部分原因。
But it doesn't-- I think I let that fear make me not talk to you about it.
但事实并非如此——我想我是因为恐惧而没有和你谈论这件事。
Whereas what really happened is exactly what I should have known you would have done, which was you're not the guy to talk about it, but you're certainly going to make sure that I find the person--
然而真正发生的事情正是我应该知道你会做的，那就是你不是谈论这件事的人，但你肯定会确保我找到那个人——
I'm going to get you to the right person, yeah.
我会让你找到合适的人，是的。
You're going to get me there.
你会带我去那里的。
You're going to-- I mean, that's one of the things I regret the most, is like, you're not the guy-- you were never going to be the guy who I could come to and say, dad, I'm really sad, and I don't know why.
你会——我的意思是，这是我最后悔的事情之一，就像，你不是那个人——你永远不会成为那个我可以对他说，爸爸，我真的很难过的人，我不知道为什么。
You weren't going to know what to say, but I should have given a lot more credit to knowing you were going to run through a wall to get me where I needed to go.
你不知道该说什么，但我应该更加相信你会穿过一堵墙来带我去我需要去的地方。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Chris Gethard and his dad, Ken Gethard.
艾拉·格拉斯·克里斯·格哈德和他的父亲肯·格哈德。
Thanks to them for agreeing to have this conversation on tape.
感谢他们同意将这次谈话录音。
The story first ran on our show a few years back.
这个故事几年前首次在我们的节目中播出。
Chris is the host of the long running podcast, Beautiful Anonymous.
克里斯是长期播客“美丽匿名”的主持人。
[MUSIC - "JUST UNDER THE SURFACE" BY VENICE]
[音乐 - 威尼斯的《就在表面之下》]
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Aviva DeKornfeld.
图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Aviva DeKornfeld 制作。
The people who put our show together today include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Tobin Low, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Ari Saperstein, Alissa Shipp, Laura Starcheski, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
今天的节目制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Elna Baker、Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Tobin Low、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Ari Saperstein、Alissa Shipp、Laura Starcheski、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Senior editor, David Kestenbaum.
高级编辑，大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor, Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑埃马努埃莱·贝里。
Special thanks today to Gabriela Munoz, Christopher Brown, and the folks at El Camino Hospital for letting us record vaccinations, Mickey Capper, Adam VanGerpen, Dan Casey, Karissa Reinach, and Chuck Leung.
今天特别感谢加布里埃拉·穆尼奥斯 (Gabriela Munoz)、克里斯托弗·布朗 (Christopher Brown) 以及埃尔卡米诺医院 (El Camino Hospital) 的工作人员米基·卡珀 (Mickey Capper)、亚当·范格彭 (Adam VanGerpen)、丹·凯西 (Dan Casey)、卡丽莎·雷纳克 (Karissa Reinach) 和查克·梁 (Chuck Leung) 让我们记录疫苗接种情况。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 700 多集档案。
Also, there's lists of favorite shows, videos we've made over the year, links to our TV program, tons of other stuff there.
此外，还有最喜欢的节目列表、我们一年来制作的视频、电视节目的链接以及大量其他内容。
Again, thisamericanlife.org.
再说一次，thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
In his early career, he was a writer in The Flintstones.
在他的早期职业生涯中，他是《摩登原始人》的编剧。
They were scripting some lines for Bam Bam one day, and one of the other writers said, hey, how about this?
有一天，他们正在为 Bam Bam 写一些台词，其他一位编剧说，嘿，这个怎么样？
Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰，砰。
Torey couldn't help himself, adding his little stamp to it.
托雷情不自禁地在上面加上了自己的小印记。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "JUST UNDER THE SURFACE" BY VENICE]
[音乐 - 威尼斯的《就在表面之下》]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。