723: Squeaker - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #723 | November 6, 2020 723: Squeaker Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 723 集 | 2020 年 11 月 6 日 723：Squeaker 注意：This American Life 是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Announcer A quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of this show.

序言：序言播音员 快速警告，本节目今天的节目中有些咒语未发出提示音。

If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.

如果您更喜欢蜂鸣声版本，您可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上找到该版本。

From WBEZ Chicago, This American Life.

来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，《美国生活》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Raise your hand if you are in Georgia, ready to start curing ballots and fight for every vote.

如果您在佐治亚州，请举手，准备好开始处理选票并为每一张选票而奋斗。

1:00 PM Wednesday, the day after the election-- Democrat volunteer Kim Hood runs a training on Zoom for 500 other Democrat volunteers who are going to go out and cure ballots in Georgia.

周三下午 1:00，即选举后的第二天，民主党志愿者 Kim Hood 在 Zoom 上为其他 500 名民主党志愿者进行培训，这些志愿者将出去解决佐治亚州的选票问题。

"Cure" means tracking down voters whose mail-in ballots had a problem with the signature or whatever, and they've been rejected so they don't count.

“治愈”意味着追踪那些邮寄选票有签名或其他问题的选民，他们被拒绝了，所以他们不被计算在内。

Curing is the word they use for fixing the ballots.

“固化”是他们用来固定选票的词。

Another word you hear a lot-- "rescuing."

还有一个你经常听到的词——“拯救”。

All eyes in this country are on Georgia right now.

现在这个国家所有的目光都集中在格鲁吉亚身上。

Everybody, shake it off.

大家，甩掉吧。

Get rid of that excess energy and all those nerves.

摆脱多余的能量和所有的紧张。

We're about to channel it.

我们即将引导它。

Normally, this is a super polished training, but it is-- I have not been to sleep.

通常来说，这是一次非常完美的训练，但事实是——我还没睡过觉。

You can see how they could feel like all of this could come down to them.

你可以看到他们如何感觉所有这一切都可以归咎于他们。

In Georgia, it was so close-- so close all week-- between the president and Joe Biden.

在佐治亚州，总统和乔·拜登之间的关系非常亲密——整个星期都如此亲密。

Out of nearly 5 million votes cast, at times, the candidates were just 1,100 votes apart.

在近 500 万张选票中，候选人有时只相差 1,100 票。

And the trainers explain to the group that there are over 5,000 votes out there that they can cure, mail-in ballots and provisional ballots.

培训师向小组解释说，他们可以治愈 5,000 多张选票，包括邮寄选票和临时选票。

So after the training, people fan out, get on phones, knock on doors.

因此，培训结束后，人们分散开来，打电话，敲门。

Hi.

你好。

Is Trevor home?

特雷弗在家吗？

Ira Glass Trevor is at college, the woman says.

这位女士说，艾拉·格拉斯·特雷弗正在上大学。

It's Wednesday night in the Atlanta suburbs.

这是亚特兰大郊区的周三晚上。

Marla Cureton is the volunteer who stopped by to find Trevor.

玛拉·库尔顿 (Marla Cureton) 是前来寻找特雷弗的志愿者。

Oh, OK.

哦，好吧。

He came up on a rejected absentee ballot list.

他出现在一份被拒绝的缺席选票名单上。

And so we're just tracking down and seeing that people are able to resolve their--

所以我们只是追踪并看到人们能够解决他们的——

"So his vote's not counted?" the woman at the door says.

“所以他的选票没有被计算在内？”门口的女人说道。

Well, it's not over yet.

好吧，事情还没有结束。

He has until Friday at 6:00 to cure his ballot.

他必须在周五 6:00 之前修改他的选票。

Marla gives her a packet of materials and explains he basically just has to sign an affidavit and photograph that and his photo ID and email them into the county.

玛拉给了她一包材料，并解释说他基本上只需签署一份宣誓书并拍照，以及他的带照片的身份证件，然后通过电子邮件将其发送到县。

Back in the car, Marla describes how she ended up deciding to volunteer for this after seeing President Trump win so many voters, state after state, just the night before on election night.

回到车上，玛拉描述了在选举之夜的前一天晚上，看到特朗普总统在一个又一个州赢得了如此多的选民后，她最终决定自愿参加这项活动。

A lot of us women of color, African-American women like myself, had a lot of anger to express this morning.

今天早上，我们很多有色人种女性，包括像我这样的非裔美国女性，都表达了很多愤怒。

Even when we realized, we were like, we think Biden is going to pull this out.

即使当我们意识到时，我们也认为拜登会解决这个问题。

We believe this.

我们相信这一点。

But my god, it shouldn't have been this close.

但天哪，不应该这么接近。

And what does that say?

这说明了什么？

And there is a lot of anger to get out about that.

对此有很多愤怒需要发泄。

And a lot of the women who are white allies also, it's just like, we were just, in our hearts, we realized we never thought it would be this close.

许多女性也是白人盟友，就像我们在心里意识到我们从未想过会如此接近。

But by the time noon and 1:00 PM came around, it's like, OK, we'll come back to that later.

但到了中午和下午 1:00 左右时，就好像，好吧，我们稍后再讨论这个问题。

We've got to get these votes.

我们必须获得这些选票。

It's tedious work.

这是一项乏味的工作。

A volunteer named Erika Meyer who's doing this by phone told me that, in her three-hour shift on Wednesday, she reached maybe one person for every 10 calls she made.

一位名叫埃里卡·迈耶 (Erika Meyer) 的志愿者通过电话进行了这项工作，她告诉我，在周三的三个小时轮班中，她每打 10 个电话就可能联系到一个人。

Yeah.

是的。

It's not a very big return on investment.

这并不是一个很大的投资回报。

How do you feel about that?

你对此有何感想？

Does it feel like just a drop in the ocean?

是不是感觉只是沧海一粟？

Do you feel like-- does it feel important?

你觉得——这很重要吗？

I kind of swing back and forth on a pendulum of political despair.

我有点在政治绝望的钟摆上来回摇摆。

[LAUGHS] Sometimes it feels like-- especially if I have a successful conversation with a voter, then you're like, yes!

[笑]有时感觉就像——特别是如果我与选民进行了一次成功的对话，那么你会说，是的！

That was so great.

那真是太棒了。

Then you kind of ride that high for a little while.

然后你就会在那么高的高度上骑行一段时间。

But when I look at the clock and see how much time all these calls have taken, and this-- yeah, as you say, a drop in the ocean.

但当我看着时钟，看看所有这些电话花了多少时间，而这——是的，正如你所说，只是沧海一粟。

So there's a big Zoom training that the Democrats did in Georgia today for volunteers curing votes.

因此，民主党今天在佐治亚州为志愿者进行了一次大型 Zoom 培训，以控制选票。

And during that training, they said that before you help the voter, be sure the voter is voting for the Democrats.

在那次培训期间，他们说，在帮助选民之前，请确保选民投票给民主党。

Were you told that in your training?

你在训练中被告知过吗？

I don't recall hearing that.

我不记得听过这个。

But I do know that in our script, one of the first questions is, were you supporting Democrats on your ballot?

但我确实知道，在我们的剧本中，第一个问题是，你在选票上支持民主党吗？

And if they say no, are you supposed to hang up?

如果他们拒绝，你应该挂断电话吗？

Thank them for their time and hang up, yeah.

感谢他们抽出时间，然后挂断电话，是的。

Would you be able to do it?

你能做到吗？

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

It's like-- really, there's no pretense that this is about democracy and counting every ballot.

这就像——真的，没有假装这是关于民主和计算每张选票。

At that point, it's just about winning.

到了那个时候，就只剩下胜利了。

I mean, if somebody said I voted for Trump, but I'm really disappointed that my vote isn't going to count, I couldn't sleep at night if I knew that I had suppressed their vote.

我的意思是，如果有人说我投票给特朗普，但我真的很失望，因为我的投票不会被计算在内，如果我知道我压制了他们的投票，我晚上就睡不着觉。

So you would help them.

所以你会帮助他们。

Erika Meyer Yeah.

埃里卡·迈耶 是的。

Yeah?

是的？

Erika Meyer We can't say we want it and then not do it.

Erika Meyer：我们不能说我们想要它，然后又不去做。

Have you had to do that?

你必须这样做吗？

Erika Meyer Well, I had one person yell at me, "Trump 2020," and then hang up, so I didn't have to do it.

埃里卡·迈耶 (Erika Meyer) 嗯，有人对我大喊“特朗普 2020”，然后挂断电话，所以我不必这样做。

[CHUCKLES]

[笑声]

Well, today on our program-- after an election week full of uncertainty, even after news organizations looked at the results and called the election for Joe Biden, there's still MORE uncertainty.

好吧，今天我们的节目——在充满不确定性的选举周之后，即使新闻机构查看了结果并宣布乔·拜登当选，仍然存在更多的不确定性。

President Trump has not conceded, he's called the vote counts fraudulent, so today we have stories of people all over the country living through this weird-- I don't know what to call it-- gravityless limbo of uncertainty that we have all been floating through since Tuesday.

特朗普总统还没有承认，他称选票计数有欺诈性，所以今天我们看到全国各地的人们都生活在这种奇怪的——我不知道该怎么称呼它——无重力的不确定状态中，自周二以来我们都在经历这种状态。

Speaking for myself, checking the news compulsively.

为我自己说话，强迫性地查看新闻。

The Washington Post called the day after the election this Wednesday "a hump day for the ages." All of us wondering, how is this going to end?

《华盛顿邮报》称本周三选举后的第二天是“多年来的驼峰日”。我们所有人都想知道，这将如何结束？

Our fellow citizens going through that.

我们的同胞们正在经历这个过程。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One, Virginia.

第一幕，弗吉尼亚。

So Mike Giglio is a reporter who's been following militia groups for the last year, interviewing the men in them, including lots of guys who've been bracing for civil war.

迈克·吉利奥（Mike Giglio）是一名记者，他去年一直在跟踪民兵组织，采访其中的人员，其中包括许多一直在为内战做好准备的人。

Over the last few weeks, when President Trump repeatedly encouraged his supporters to go to polling stations and, quote, "watch very carefully on Election Day," Mike wondered if any of these groups and those guys he knew would heed the call.

在过去的几周里，当特朗普总统反复鼓励他的支持者去投票站并引用“在选举日非常仔细地观察”时，迈克想知道这些团体和他认识的那些人是否会留意这一呼吁。

Here's Mike.

这是迈克。

When I called Joe Klemm, the leader of a militia in Virginia called the Ridge Runners, he told me that's exactly what they were getting ready to do.

当我打电话给乔·克莱姆（Joe Klemm）时，他是弗吉尼亚州一个民兵组织“山脊奔跑者”的领导人，他告诉我这正是他们准备做的事情。

So I joined them for a pre-election training session in the Appalachian Mountains one chilly Saturday morning three weeks ago.

因此，三周前一个寒冷的周六早上，我和他们一起在阿巴拉契亚山脉参加了一场选前训练。

Joe wouldn't tell me the location over the phone, so I met him and about a dozen other guys in camo at a McDonald's and followed them to a large farm.

乔不会通过电话告诉我具体位置，所以我在一家麦当劳遇见了他和其他十几个穿着迷彩服的人，然后跟着他们去了一个大农场。

They start the day standing at attention behind an abandoned building with their AR-15s.

他们带着 AR-15 站在一栋废弃建筑后面，开始新的一天。

Parade rest!

游行休息！

Morning, gents.

早上好，先生们。

Glad to see you all here.

很高兴在这里见到大家。

Thank you all for coming out.

谢谢大家的到来。

Just real quick, we're going to go over a couple of things today.

很快，我们今天要讨论几件事。

That's Joe.

那是乔。

He's a muscular 29-year-old who looks exactly like the former Marine sergeant he tells me he is.

他今年 29 岁，肌肉发达，看上去和他告诉我的前海军陆战队中士一模一样。

Just want to kind of bring this all to the forefront of all of your minds with the election on the way.

只是想在选举即将到来之际，将这一切带到大家的脑海中。

We will need to stay vigilant.

我们需要保持警惕。

Right now, we're all-- I've been collaborating with a lot of the other group commanders in the area.

现在，我们所有人——我一直在与该地区的许多其他小组指挥官合作。

Each group is going to have a set number of polling sites that we're going to be responsible for.

每个小组都会有一定数量的投票站，我们将负责这些投票站。

Each polling site is going to have two, hopefully three, gray men operating at that site.

每个投票站将有两名（最好是三名）灰色男子在该站点操作。

Gray men-- that means men in plainclothes trying to blend into the crowds at the polling stations.

灰色男子——这意味着穿着便衣的男子试图融入投票站的人群。

Joe tells me what they're looking for is groups like Black Lives Matter and Antifa, who they believe could disrupt the election, intimidate voters, or commit fraud.

乔告诉我，他们正在寻找像“黑人生命也是命”和“安提法”这样的组织，他们认为这些组织可能会扰乱选举、恐吓选民或实施欺诈。

They get this from the president.

他们从总统那里得到了这个。

Trump and right-wing media have been raising these fears without evidence for months.

几个月来，特朗普和右翼媒体一直在没有证据的情况下提出这些担忧。

Everyone in Joe's militia is white.

乔的民兵中的每个人都是白人。

The question of whether militias are synonymous with white nationalists always comes up with groups like this, and they almost always reject that label.

民兵是否等同于白人民族主义者的问题总是出现在这样的团体中，而他们几乎总是拒绝这个标签。

All of the places that Joe imagines might be hotspots on Election Day are nearby cities with lots of people of color.

乔认为选举日可能成为热点的所有地方都是附近有很多有色人种的城市。

But he and his members insist they're not racist.

但他和他的成员坚称他们不是种族主义者。

Before January, when Joe started the group, most of these guys didn't know each other.

在一月份乔组建这个小组之前，大多数人彼此都不认识。

Joe's one the most intense people I've met in the militias.

乔是我在民兵中见过的最热情的人之一。

And when he talks, people tend to snap to attention.

当他讲话时，人们往往会立即集中注意力。

He tells me stories about fighting as a black ops soldier and losing friends and killing enemies.

他给我讲述了作为一名黑人行动士兵的战斗以及失去朋友和杀死敌人的故事。

I check with the Marines, and they tell me they have no record of his service.

我向海军陆战队核实，他们告诉我他们没有他的服役记录。

Joe claims that's because it's classified.

乔声称这是因为它是机密。

When I ask people what drew them to the group, they talk about Joe, his charisma.

当我问人们是什么吸引他们加入这个团体时，他们谈到了乔，以及他的魅力。

Here's a member called Savage.

这是一位名叫 Savage 的成员。

I went to a muster in Whitesville for a group.

我去怀茨维尔参加了一个团体的集合。

And that group just basically wanted to stand around and talk.

那群人基本上只是想站在那里说话。

And there's nothing wrong with that.

这并没有什么问题。

But don't call yourself a militia if you just want to stand around and talk politics.

但如果你只是想站在那里谈论政治，就不要称自己为民兵。

Joe's group, when he came up and delivered his thing, they talked about training.

乔的团队，当他上来交付他的东西时，他们谈论了培训。

And I mean, who don't want to get out and shoot rounds downrange for fun?

我的意思是，谁不想出去射击射击以取乐呢？

You know?

你知道？

Who doesn't want to train and be a part of something?

谁不想接受培训并成为某事的一部分？

A lot of the day, it seems like the guys are just here to bond and have fun.

一天中的很多时候，这些家伙似乎只是来这里建立联系并享受乐趣。

Joe leads the men through six hours of drills, starting with the PT and then moving to shooting positions and room clearing.

乔带领队员们进行了六个小时的训练，从 PT 开始，然后转移到射击位置和清理房间。

So, it's initial contact.

就这样，初步接触。

So, contact front, 200 meters.

所以，接触前方，200米。

Contact front, 200 meters.

接触前沿，200 米。

Joe Klemm Bang, bang, bang.

乔·克莱姆 砰，砰，砰。

Move!

移动！

Mike Giglio They're running a drill here where the idea is that they learn how to cover each other.

Mike Giglio 他们正在这里进行一次演习，目的是让他们学习如何互相掩护。

When I spend time with these groups, I'm always wondering how seriously they take the idea that they might really engage in violence.

当我与这些团体相处时，我总是想知道他们是否认真对待他们可能真的参与暴力的想法。

On the one hand, they're giving each other nicknames, slapping each other on the back, and saying, "bang."

一方面，他们互相起绰号，拍打对方的背，并说“砰”。

But at the same time, they really do believe the country's in danger, that they might need to turn their guns on their fellow citizens one day.

但与此同时，他们确实相信国家正处于危险之中，有一天他们可能需要将枪口对准自己的同胞。

And they buy into all the unsupported claims Trump makes about liberals bent on election fraud and violence and the need to stop them.

他们相信特朗普关于自由派热衷于选举舞弊和暴力以及制止这些行为的必要性的所有未经证实的主张。

And they think they're the ones to do it.

他们认为他们是做这件事的人。

Nearly all the militiamen I've spoken to this year believe that Democrats committed massive voter fraud in 2016, and they've been doing it again this year with mail-in ballots and early voting.

今年与我交谈过的几乎所有民兵都认为民主党在 2016 年犯下了大规模选民欺诈行为，今年他们又通过邮寄选票和提前投票的方式再次这样做。

Joe is worried the 2020 election could be stolen.

乔担心 2020 年选举可能被窃取。

Did it matter to you that Trump said that?

特朗普这样说对你来说重要吗？

Well, yeah, of course it did.

嗯，是的，当然是这样。

Because considering all the access to information that he has that we don't, if he's dropping these little tidbits, there's something that people like me need to pay attention to.

因为考虑到他拥有而我们无法获取的所有信息，如果他漏掉了这些小花絮，那么像我这样的人就需要注意一些事情。

So you think that he's basing that on real information?

所以你认为他的说法是基于真实信息？

I do.

我愿意。

Mike Giglio You think it's possible that he's playing politics?

迈克·吉利奥（Mike Giglio）：你认为他有可能在玩弄政治吗？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为。

He seems like more of a straightforward kind of guy.

他看起来更像是一个直率的人。

I think that he's not the type of person to play politics.

我认为他不是那种玩弄政治的人。

Sometimes I wish the people in these militia groups could hear how much they sound like people I've covered in countries that have come undone.

有时我希望这些民兵组织中的人们能够听到他们的声音多么像我在那些已经崩溃的国家报道过的人们。

I spent a lot of time in Eastern Ukraine in early 2013 with the pro-Russian activists who eventually plunged the region into a war.

2013 年初，我在乌克兰东部与亲俄活动人士待了很长时间，他们最终使该地区陷入了战争。

They would go on social media and tune into Russian propaganda and convince themselves that their countrymen were out to destroy them.

他们会在社交媒体上收听俄罗斯的宣传，并说服自己，他们的同胞要摧毁他们。

They'd tell me that bands of Nazis were coming from Kiev to kill them.

他们告诉我，纳粹分子正从基辅赶来杀害他们。

I was struck by the way people had to convince themselves that the other side was absolutely out to get them, was bent on their destruction in order to take that step into real violence.

令我震惊的是，人们必须说服自己，对方绝对是想抓他们，一心要毁灭他们，才能迈出真正的暴力的一步。

It's not that I think that what happened in Ukraine will happen in America.

我并不是认为乌克兰发生的事情也会在美国发生。

But talk of violence can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

但谈论暴力可能会成为一种自我实现的预言。

So the stakes for you-- are the stakes just an election?

那么对你来说，赌注只是一场选举吗？

Like, if Trump loses, OK, maybe we can win again in four years?

就像，如果特朗普输了，好吧，也许我们可以在四年内再次获胜？

No, I really believe that anybody who gets in after Trump, if they're liberal, is going to be the downfall of America for sure.

不，我真的相信任何在特朗普之后加入的人，如果他们是自由派，肯定会导致美国的垮台。

This election is going to be some sort of a turning point, for good or bad.

这次选举将成为某种转折点，无论好坏。

It's going to be a turning point.

这将是一个转折点。

It's Tuesday morning, Election Day.

今天是星期二早上，选举日。

Joe and some of his guys are split between two pickup trucks.

乔和他的一些人被分在两辆皮卡车之间。

I'm in the backseat of Joe's.

我坐在乔的后座上。

Everyone with me is dressed in battle gear, and they're armed to the teeth.

和我在一起的每个人都身着战斗装备，武装到牙齿。

Joe's wearing a bulletproof vest with four or five ammo clips strapped to it and a pistol in a holster.

乔穿着一件防弹背心，上面绑着四五个弹药夹，皮套里装着一把手枪。

In the passenger seat, Matt, a lanky guy in his 30s, has a big knife strapped to his own body armor in addition to all the ammo clips.

副驾驶座上，马特是个 30 多岁的瘦长男子，除了所有的弹药夹外，他自己的防弹衣上还绑着一把大刀。

And he's wearing a pair of noise-canceling headphones with skulls on them.

他戴着一副带有骷髅图案的降噪耳机。

Both of them have loaded AR-15s in their laps.

他们两人的腿上都装载了AR-15。

The plan is to do as the president suggested-- drive to every polling station in their county in Virginia and look for problems.

该计划是按照总统的建议进行的——开车前往弗吉尼亚州所在县的每个投票站寻找问题。

Joe leads the way.

乔在前面带路。

So we're just looking for any signs of people up to no good, possibly trying to deter people or intimidate anybody.

所以我们只是寻找任何不怀好意的人的迹象，可能是试图阻止或恐吓任何人。

I'd asked earlier what kind of people they were looking for, and Joe said thugs.

我之前问过他们要找什么样的人，乔说是暴徒。

When I asked what that meant, he said people from Black Lives Matter, from Antifa.

当我问这是什么意思时，他说来自 Black Lives Matter 和 Antifa 的人。

I wasn't sure how he'd know whether a person was a member of a group like that or whether there were even that many of them in this part of the country.

我不确定他怎么知道一个人是否是这样一个团体的成员，或者这个国家的这个地区是否有那么多人。

Well, first of all, Antifa would be dressed in all black, probably.

嗯，首先，Antifa 可能会穿全黑衣服。

BLM would be just-- they would have all kinds of BLM signage and things like that.

BLM 就是——他们会有各种各样的 BLM 标牌和类似的东西。

We pull up to a polling station and sit in a parking lot.

我们把车停到投票站并坐在停车场。

Just out there in the open, there are people milling around and then a bunch of guys with guns just watching them.

就在空旷的地方，有人在周围转来转去，然后一群拿着枪的人只是看着他们。

You want to pull and change location to right over here by that white vehicle and the picnic shelter?

您想把车停到那辆白色车辆和野餐棚旁边并改变位置吗？

Yeah, I was just thinking that.

是的，我只是这么想。

Sounds good.

听起来不错。

Go ahead and move.

继续前进吧。

Doug, the gray man, gets ready to go in.

灰色男子道格准备进去。

He's in his 40s with a beard.

他40多岁了，留着胡子。

He also has an easy demeanor, which is probably the reason they picked him for the job.

他的举止也很随和，这可能是他们选择他担任这份工作的原因。

He's wearing jeans, a fleece, and sunglasses.

他穿着牛仔裤、羊毛衫和太阳镜。

And you'd have to look closely to notice that there's a wire running down from the back of his hat, which is connected to a radio so he can be in touch with the guys.

你必须仔细观察才能注意到，有一根电线从他的帽子后面延伸下来，连接到收音机，这样他就可以与其他人取得联系。

We hang back in the pickup while Doug goes in.

当道格进去时，我们在皮卡里待了一会儿。

After a few minutes, he casually walks back to us.

几分钟后，他漫不经心地走回我们身边。

So what did you see there?

那么你在那里看到了什么？

Doug Just people talking.

道格 只是人们在说话。

There's probably 40 voters in there.

那里可能有 40 名选民。

More people showing up all the time.

不断有更多的人出现。

Everybody was in a good mood, cheerful.

大家心情都很好，很高兴。

Just looked around, come back out, made a 360 sweep of the building, outside of the building.

只是环顾四周，回来后，对大楼进行了 360 度扫描，在大楼外面。

Nothing, no. Mike Giglio And we're back on the road, with Joe leading the way.

没什么，没有。 Mike Giglio 我们又上路了，乔在前面带路。

At pretty much every polling station, when Doug walks in, this is how it goes.

几乎在每个投票站，当道格走进投票站时，情况都是这样的。

Howdy, howdy.

你好，你好。

How are y'all?

你们好吗？

Poll Staff Come on over this way, guys.

投票站工作人员 过来这边，伙计们。

Oh, OK.

哦，好吧。

Doug I'm just here checking everything out.

道格，我只是在这里检查一切。

You're welcome.

不客气。

Mike Giglio Most of the day is driving, driving and waiting, waiting and driving.

迈克·吉利奥 (Mike Giglio) 一天的大部分时间都是在开车、开车、等待、等待、驾驶。

It's a big county spread across winding mountain roads.

这是一个横跨蜿蜒山路的大县。

We drop in and out of cell service, and sometimes Joe gets turned around when his Google Maps goes on the fritz.

我们时不时地断断续续地使用手机服务，有时乔的谷歌地图出了故障，他就会转身。

Matt, the guy in the passenger seat, is good at filling the idle time.

坐在副驾驶座上的马特很擅长打发闲暇时间。

He's ready to sound off on just about anything.

他已经准备好对任何事情发声了。

I don't know if y'all have watched The Sopranos, but Tony used this-- I mean, the definition of a narcissist.

我不知道你们是否看过《黑道家族》，但托尼用了这个——我的意思是，自恋者的定义。

He talks about cars.

他谈论汽车。

Matt If I had to pick one muscle car, I would probably go with either '69 Charger RT or the '71 Hemi 'Cuda.

马特 如果我必须选择一辆肌肉车，我可能会选择 '69 Charger RT 或 '71 Hemi 'Cuda。

The good old days.

过去的美好时光。

Matt Like, we used to argue about like football, talk shit about sport.

马特·莱克（Matt Like），我们过去常常争论足球之类的话题，谈论体育方面的狗屎。

People don't even do that anymore.

人们甚至不再这样做了。

They're arguing about this or that or whatever.

他们在争论这个或那个或其他什么。

His love handles.

他的爱情把柄。

Matt Even as skinny as I am, they like to pop out outside.

马特 即使我很瘦，他们也喜欢到外面去。

Yeah, they don't freaking want to go away either.

是的，他们也不想离开。

No, dude, it's just like-- Man Man, I've been working out like crazy.

不，伙计，这就像——曼曼，我一直在疯狂地锻炼。

I eat right.

我吃得对。

I don't do a lot of sugar and nothing like that, but.

我不吃太多糖之类的，但是。

The confrontation they suited up for never happens.

他们所适合的对抗从未发生过。

We don't see Antifa or Black Lives Matter or anyone blocking the polls or intimidating voters or committing fraud.

我们没有看到 Antifa 或 Black Lives Matter 或任何人阻止投票或恐吓选民或进行欺诈。

At our last stop, we do see someone lingering outside a polling station.

在最后一站，我们确实看到有人在投票站外徘徊。

I walk up to the entrance with Doug and see a woman sitting nearby.

我和道格走到入口处，看到一个女人坐在附近。

She's an older white woman with a bag that has a blue sticker for Mark Warner, a Democratic senator.

她是一位年长的白人妇女，提着一个包，包上贴着民主党参议员马克·华纳的蓝色贴纸。

Doug walks right by her with a polite hello, and then we're inside having another awkward conversation with the poll workers.

道格从她身边走过，礼貌地打了声招呼，然后我们在里面与投票站工作人员进行了另一次尴尬的对话。

Hello, how are y'all?

你好，你们好吗？

Doug Nice to meet you.

道格 很高兴认识你。

Y'all had a pretty good turnout today?

今天的投票率还不错吧？

There's been a huge turnout evidently everywhere, which is great.

显然到处都有大量的投票者，这很棒。

Good deal.

好交易。

Poll Staff Yeah, people should vote, right?

投票站工作人员 是的，人们应该投票，对吗？

Yes, ma'am.

是的，女士。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

Mike Giglio When we walk back outside, the woman is still there.

迈克·吉利奥 当我们走回外面时，那个女人还在那里。

And I notice her eyeing Doug, a little suspicious that he walked in and out so quickly.

我注意到她看着道格，有点怀疑他走得这么快。

She asks him if he needs help.

她问他是否需要帮助。

I've already voted.

我已经投票了。

I was just talking to some people.

我只是在和一些人说话。

[CHUCKLES]

[笑声]

Doug goes back to the car, and I decide to go and talk with the woman.

道格回到车上，我决定去和那个女人谈谈。

She's Janet Tate, a die-hard local Democrat.

她是珍妮特·泰特，一位顽固的当地民主党人。

She says she comes here every election to hand out campaign literature.

她说她每次选举都会来这里分发竞选材料。

She's allowed to do that just outside the white line on the pavement.

她被允许在人行道白线之外这样做。

Like a lot of people, Janet had been anxious about being out on Election Day.

和很多人一样，珍妮特一直对选举日出局感到焦虑。

I'm pleasantly surprised.

我很惊喜。

My daughter was worried about me a little bit, but I'm like-- I'm old, and I just-- I think it's important.

我女儿有点担心我，但我想——我老了，而且我只是——我认为这很重要。

I mentioned that I saw her watching Doug.

我提到我看到她看着道格。

But he was a little odd when he comes kind of zooming in and out.

但当他放大和缩小时，他有点奇怪。

But he was nice.

但他很好。

This group is a militia group, actually.

这个团体实际上是一个民兵团体。

Oh, they were pretty nice.

哦，他们人很好。

[LAUGHS] I said they were nice.

[笑]我说他们很好。

Joe and the heavily-armed guys in the car are probably exactly the kind of people her daughter was worried about.

乔和车里全副武装的家伙可能正是她女儿担心的那种人。

But Janet tells me she's not going to be intimidated.

但珍妮特告诉我她不会被吓倒。

I'm like, what are they going to do?

我想，他们要做什么？

Shoot me?

开枪打我？

My daughter really was worried.

我女儿真的很担心。

Like, don't do it.

就像，不要这样做。

So.

所以。

She thought maybe a group like that would--

她想也许这样的团体会——

Well, she just didn't know what to think, so-- but I-- I don't know.

好吧，她只是不知道该怎么想，所以——但我——我不知道。

I'm not going to live in a country that I feel uncomfortable going to my polling place and doing normal democratic things.

我不会生活在一个让我感到不舒服去投票站并做正常民主事情的国家。

It's like, I could bring my bear spray.

就像，我可以带上防熊喷雾。

[LAUGHS] It just seems ridiculous.

[笑]这看起来很荒谬。

I head back to the truck.

我回到卡车那里。

I tell Joe that the woman I was talking to is a local Democrat and that she told me Doug seemed like a nice guy.

我告诉乔，与我交谈的那位女士是当地的民主党人，她告诉我道格看起来是个好人。

He's really struck by that.

他确实对此感到震惊。

He jumps out of the truck, still in his full battle gear, and suddenly determined to meet her.

他从卡车上跳下来，仍然穿着全套战斗装备，突然决定去见她。

So I just want to come and shake your hand.

所以我只想过来和你握手。

I really appreciate you being out here and helping these people that come out here.

我真的很感谢你来到这里并帮助这些来到这里的人。

Oh, thank you.

哦，谢谢。

Joe Klemm And I mean, obviously, we're, like, two opposite sides.

乔·克莱姆：我的意思是，显然，我们是两个相反的方面。

But I think it's great that people who have differing views can be civil and just get along.

但我认为，持不同观点的人能够保持文明并和平相处是件好事。

Right!

正确的！

I mean, I've been doing this since 2007.

我的意思是，自 2007 年以来我一直在这样做。

Yeah.

是的。

If Janet's intimidated by Joe with his body armor and ammo clips and pistol, she doesn't show it.

如果珍妮特被乔的防弹衣、弹药夹和手枪吓倒，她也不会表现出来。

Well, yeah, we've been kind of patrolling around all day, so.

嗯，是的，我们一整天都在巡逻，所以。

I think it's a little excessive, but-- [LAUGHS]

我觉得这有点过分了，但是——[笑]

They talk for a few minutes.

他们聊了几分钟。

He's so big, but Janet just smiles and looks him in the eyes.

他太大了，但珍妮特只是微笑着看着他的眼睛。

She even picks an argument with him about the electoral college.

她甚至就选举团问题与他发生争执。

At the end, they do a little high five.

最后，他们做了一点高五。

Let's do better.

让我们做得更好。

There you go.

就这样吧。

That's better.

这样更好。

All right.

好的。

Good deal.

好交易。

All right, we're going to head out of here.

好吧，我们要离开这里了。

You enjoy the rest of your night.

你会享受余下的夜晚。

Oh, thank you.

哦，谢谢。

Mike Giglio When Joe gets back to the car, I notice that he's energized by the encounter.

迈克·吉利奥 当乔回到车上时，我注意到他因这次遭遇而充满活力。

It was the only time of the day I saw him drop his warrior persona.

这是一天中我唯一一次看到他放下战士的形象。

"Great day," he tells me.

“美好的一天，”他告诉我。

Not long afterwards, the guys packed it up and went home.

没多久，小伙伴们就收拾好东西回家了。

They had found no evidence of fraud, no intimidation or disruption.

他们没有发现任何欺诈、恐吓或破坏的证据。

And they never got a chance to protect the vote or engage the enemy.

他们从来没有机会保护选票或与敌人交战。

And it was a relief to see that this was totally fine with them.

看到他们对此完全满意，我感到很欣慰。

The next day, I called Joe.

第二天，我给乔打了电话。

It was Wednesday.

那是星期三。

The news was moving towards a Biden victory, and President Trump was already crying fraud.

拜登即将获胜的消息传出，特朗普总统已经大喊欺诈。

Joe was, too.

乔也是。

Up till right now, I'm not very happy with what I'm seeing.

到目前为止，我对所看到的还不是很满意。

Honestly, I think the other side is trying to introduce false ballots into the system.

老实说，我认为对方正在试图将假选票引入系统。

And then they're just going to try to rig it and make it so that Biden wins.

然后他们就会试图操纵它，让拜登获胜。

What makes you think that they're doing that?

是什么让你认为他们这样做？

There is some fishy stuff going on up there in Michigan and a couple other places that they should have already called for Trump, but they haven't.

密歇根州和其他几个地方发生了一些可疑的事情，他们本应该呼吁特朗普的，但他们没有。

The president has been pushing unsubstantiated claims of election rigging in Michigan and other crucial states.

总统一直在密歇根州和其他关键州推动未经证实的选举舞弊指控。

So if it ends up being that Biden is declared the winner, do you think there could be a way that you could just say, yeah, that's probably what happened and believe it?

因此，如果最终拜登被宣布获胜，你是否认为有一种方法可以让你说，是的，这可能就是发生的事情并相信它？

Yes, no chance.

是的，没有机会。

From everything that we saw and experienced leading up to the election, there is no way that Trump would lose a fair election.

从我们在选举前所看到和经历的一切来看，特朗普不可能输掉一场公平的选举。

There is no way.

没有办法。

Your own experience yesterday was that you guys checked on the polling stations and everything was running smoothly and you didn't see any fraud.

你们昨天的亲身经历是，你们检查了投票站，一切都很顺利，没有看到任何欺诈行为。

No, honestly.

不，老实说。

Because the fact that people were able to go and cast their vote unimpeded doesn't really have anything to do with what goes on with those ballots and stuff after the people go and cast them.

因为人们能够不受阻碍地去投票这一事实与人们去投票后这些选票和其他东西所发生的事情实际上没有任何关系。

Joe tells me he's sure that if Biden wins, some kind of violence is inevitable.

乔告诉我，他确信如果拜登获胜，某种暴力是不可避免的。

He says they'll end up fighting someone.

他说他们最终会和某人打架。

Black Lives Matter, Antifa-- he's not sure.

Black Lives Matter，Antifa——他不确定。

What if, at some point, Trump were to concede and say he accepts that Biden is the president now?

如果特朗普在某个时候承认并表示他接受拜登现在是总统怎么办？

Could he change your mind?

他能改变你的想法吗？

Absolutely not.

绝对不是。

Ira Glass Mike Giglio-- he wrote about his experiences covering civil wars overseas in his book Shatter the Nations.

艾拉·格拉斯·迈克·吉利奥（Ira Glass Mike Giglio）——他在《粉碎国家》一书中讲述了自己报道海外内战的经历。

Act Two, New York and Germany.

第二幕，纽约和德国。

So four years ago, the day after Donald Trump won that election, reporter Stephanie Foo met two army officers at a diner to talk to them about their new boss.

四年前，唐纳德·特朗普赢得大选的第二天，记者斯蒂芬妮·符在一家餐馆遇见了两名军官，与他们谈论他们的新老板。

Those guys were in the same unit, close friends.

那些人是同一个单位的，是好朋友。

But they did not agree on politics at all.

但他们在政治上根本没有达成一致。

Why do you like each other?

你们为什么互相喜欢？

Chet I don't know.

切特我不知道。

Why do we like each other?

我们为什么互相喜欢？

You know why?

你知道为什么吗？

Because I know that he'll have my back and I'll have his.

因为我知道他会支持我，我也会支持他。

Regardless of what he believes-- although it's ill founded, most of it-- yeah, he's awesome.

不管他相信什么——尽管大部分都是站不住脚的——是的，他很棒。

I'd give my life for him.

我愿意为他献出我的生命。

I'd save my own life.

我会拯救自己的生命。

No. [LAUGHS] He knows we're good.

不。[笑]他知道我们很好。

At the time, they went back and forth about what they thought the next four years were going to be like with President Trump as commander in chief.

当时，他们反复讨论特朗普总统担任总司令后的四年会是什么样子。

Whether it meant they were more likely to be deployed to a conflict zone, how it would affect morale, and the possibility that Donald Trump might start a nuclear war.

这是否意味着他们更有可能被部署到冲突地区，这将如何影响士气，以及唐纳德·特朗普可能发动核战争的可能性。

He'll be fine.

他会没事的。

He's not going to drop nukes on people.

他不会向人们扔核武器。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I think he's incredibly uneducated about it.

我认为他对此非常缺乏教育。

So here's the thing about the codes that people don't realize.

这就是人们没有意识到的关于代码的事情。

It's not like he has a piece of paper in his pocket.

他口袋里并没有一张纸。

It's like, oh, here are the nuclear codes.

就像，哦，这是核密码。

It doesn't work that way.

事实并非如此。

The guy who liked President Trump said the officer with the nuclear football would prevent Donald Trump from randomly nuking somebody.

喜欢特朗普总统的人说，拥有核足球的官员会阻止唐纳德特朗普随意用核武器攻击某人。

The Hillary Clinton supporter was not so sure.

希拉里·克林顿的支持者不太确定。

Anyway, Stephanie checked in with two of them again earlier this week.

不管怎样，斯蒂芬妮本周早些时候再次拜访了他们中的两个人。

One of them is in the States.

其中之一在美国。

One of them is stationed in Germany.

其中之一驻扎在德国。

The biggest thing that happened to these guys in the last four years actually had nothing to do with Trump.

过去四年里这些人身上发生的最大的事情实际上与特朗普无关。

They both had babies.

他们都有孩子了。

This is actually better.

这实际上更好。

I can hear you guys pretty good.

我能听到你们的声音很好。

Sorry I'm late.

抱歉我来晚了。

Somebody decided to take off their diaper and chew on it.

有人决定脱下尿布并咀嚼它。

So we were dealing with that.

所以我们正在处理这个问题。

And now we're terrible parents.

现在我们是糟糕的父母。

He's crying hysterically because how dare we not let him eat his own feces.

他歇斯底里地哭泣，因为我们怎么敢不让他吃自己的粪便。

So.

所以。

[LAUGHS] Tom God, he reminds me of you so much already.

[笑]汤姆上帝，他已经让我想起你了。

[LAUGHS] Chet I know.

[笑]切特我知道。

Well, don't worry.

好吧，别担心。

Your daughter's not too far behind, uh, Tom.

你女儿也不落后太多，呃，汤姆。

These aren't their real names, but Chet and Tom voted exactly how I expected them to in this election.

这些不是他们的真名，但切特和汤姆在这次选举中的投票完全符合我的预期。

Tom voted for Biden.

汤姆投票给了拜登。

Chet again voted for Trump.

切特再次投票支持特朗普。

But in 2016, Chet had been a really hardcore Trump supporter.

但在 2016 年，切特一直是特朗普的铁杆支持者。

He really wanted an outsider.

他确实想要一个外人。

But now that the outsider is an insider, he feels more agnostic.

但现在局外人变成了局内人，他感觉更加不可知了。

And maybe a little part of his indifference is because of Trump's role as their boss.

也许他的冷漠有一部分是因为特朗普是他们的老板。

Like the time Trump made the comment saying, why are we having all these people from shithole countries coming here?

就像特朗普发表评论时说的那样，为什么我们让这些来自垃圾国家的人来到这里？

Chet wasn't crazy about that.

切特对此并不疯狂。

Neither was Tom, the Biden supporter, who was deployed in Africa when that went down.

拜登的支持者汤姆也不是，他在事件发生时被部署在非洲。

His comments about shithole countries definitely impacted my job.

他对垃圾国家的评论肯定影响了我的工作。

The US military has training exercises across the world with partners.

美国军方与合作伙伴在世界各地进行训练演习。

I happened to be in a position at the time where I was running a group of teams that were in African countries.

当时我碰巧管理着一群非洲国家的团队。

And as you're sitting there, planning for these training events, these comments come out.

当您坐在那里计划这些培训活动时，这些评论就会出现。

And it's just like, your partners are kind of like, is this what you guys think about us?

就像，你的合作伙伴有点像，这就是你们对我们的看法吗？

So it's--

所以这是——

I basically talked through it.

我基本都讲完了。

That doesn't represent US military's position on our partnerships.

这并不代表美国军方对我们伙伴关系的立场。

And honestly, sometimes it comes down to just bullshitting and having friendly relations with folks.

老实说，有时这只是胡说八道和与人保持友好关系。

Yeah, I've had similar experiences, too.

是的，我也有过类似的经历。

I'm a Trump supporter, right?

我是特朗普的支持者，对吧？

MAGA 2020.

MAGA 2020。

But yes, it does make your job more difficult.

但是，是的，这确实会让你的工作变得更加困难。

I'm not going to defend the fact that when he says something, it's like, OK, it's time to brace.

我不会为这样一个事实辩护：当他说些什么时，就像是，好吧，是时候做好准备了。

They weren't totally unhappy with his performance.

他们对他的表现并非完全不满意。

Both Chet and Tom agreed that Trump's strongman personality did come in handy sometimes.

切特和汤姆都同意，特朗普的强人性格有时确实会派上用场。

They liked that he engaged with North Korea and supported the assassination of Iranian general Qassem Soleimani.

他们喜欢他与朝鲜接触并支持暗杀伊朗将军卡西姆·苏莱马尼。

But the thing that's affected them the most during the last four years is the same thing we've all dealt with-- the thing that isn't going to magically go away, no matter who wins.

但在过去四年里，对他们影响最大的事情与我们都经历过的事情是一样的——无论谁赢了，这件事都不会神奇地消失。

I feel like the thing that's very clear to me is that it really feels like there are two Americas right now.

我觉得我很清楚的是，现在真的感觉有两个美洲。

Yeah, sure.

是的，当然。

Stephanie Foo Does it feel that way in the military?

Stephanie Foo 在军队里有这样的感觉吗？

Yes.

是的。

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

Stephanie Foo That's Chet.

斯蒂芬妮·福 那是切特。

I have colleagues on both sides.

我两边都有同事。

And it's awkward.

这很尴尬。

Like you used to talk about it more and now people don't want to talk about politics at all?

就像你以前谈论得更多，现在人们根本不想谈论政治一样？

Yeah, when I went to Iraq in 2008, it was like-- people would be like, I'm voting for Obama, or people were like, I'm going to vote for McCain.

是的，当我 2008 年去伊拉克时，人们会说，我要投票给奥巴马，或者人们会说，我要投票给麦凯恩。

But there wasn't any charged racism attached to it.

但其中并没有任何指控的种族主义。

Like, you weren't a racist if you voted for McCain.

就像，如果你投票给麦凯恩，你就不是种族主义者。

You could talk about it and nobody would get offended.

你可以谈论它，没有人会生气。

And now, it's just like-- you know.

现在，就像——你知道。

Apparently, I'm a supremacist because I vote for Trump, according to some people.

显然，据一些人说，我是一个至上主义者，因为我投票给特朗普。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

So I'm just very much like, whatever, man.

所以我很喜欢，无论如何，伙计。

I'm voting for who I want to vote for.

我正在投票给我想投票给的人。

You can do the same.

你也可以这样做。

I don't want to talk about it, you know?

我不想谈论这件事，你知道吗？

One of the moments that bugs Chet the most is from his last deployment.

最让切特烦恼的时刻之一是他上次的部署。

One of his friends was a Black woman who absolutely hated Trump.

他的一个朋友是一位绝对讨厌特朗普的黑人女性。

And she hated all of the white Trump supporting soldiers around her, too.

她也讨厌她周围所有支持特朗普的白人士兵。

She did hang out with Chet.

她确实和切特一起出去玩。

He thinks it's because he's Asian-American.

他认为这是因为他是亚裔美国人。

And it just put me in an awkward position all the time.

这让我一直处于尴尬的境地。

And I would always get asked by both sides, like, why are you hanging out with them?

双方总是会问我，比如，你为什么和他们一起出去玩？

And I'd be like, really, man?

我会想，真的吗，伙计？

We're all on the same team.

我们都在同一个团队。

Who cares?

谁在乎？

Tom agrees.

汤姆同意。

He says that in the military, the mindset should be that there is an enemy, and it's out there, hiding in a cave in Afghanistan somewhere, not in the next aisle at the Stop and Shop.

他说，在军队中，人们的心态应该是有一个敌人，而且它就在那里，藏在阿富汗某个山洞里，而不是在车站和商店的隔壁过道里。

When I was watching the stuff on the news with the Black Lives Matter protest and National Guard troops were getting called in, I kept thinking-- I'm like, that is the worst fucking job.

当我看到新闻中有关“黑人生命也是命”抗议活动和国民警卫队部队被召集的内容时，我一直在想——我想，那是最糟糕的工作。

I would never, ever want to do that, right?

我永远不会想要那样做，对吧？

These are people from your community, and you're getting called in to do something.

这些人来自您的社区，您被召唤去做某事。

No one in the military wants to do this.

军队中没有人愿意这样做。

No. Tom Unless, again, when it comes to emergency situations, I think everybody's all for volunteering to do that in the case of, say, a hurricane.

不，汤姆 除非，再说一遍，当涉及到紧急情况时，我认为每个人都会自愿在飓风等情况下这样做。

But nobody wants to go in and try and be a policeman.

但没有人愿意进去尝试成为一名警察。

That's not our job.

那不是我们的工作。

No. Stephanie Foo I don't know.

不，Stephanie Foo 我不知道。

I follow some military Instagrams, and one of them is like, I killed people in Afghanistan.

我关注一些军事 Instagram，其中一张是这样的，我在阿富汗杀了人。

I'll kill these people today, you know?

今天我要杀了这些人，你知道吗？

I mean--

我的意思是——

Idiots.

白痴。

Those people probably failed their psych exam.

那些人很可能没有通过心理测试。

A lot of international relationships have been tested by the Trump presidency, but not Chet and Tom's.

许多国际关系都受到了特朗普总统任期的考验，但切特和汤姆的却没有。

You guys are still friends.

你们还是朋友。

Tom Yeah.

汤姆 是的。

I mean-- but to be totally honest, that's because we have a toxic friendship where we just make fun of each other the whole time.

我的意思是——但说实话，那是因为我们之间的友谊是有毒的，我们总是互相取笑。

So this is just one more thing we can--

所以这只是我们还能做的另一件事——

Yeah.

是的。

We hated each other long before Trump even decided to run for president.

早在特朗普决定竞选总统之前我们就互相憎恨。

So I mean, we just built on top of that hatred.

所以我的意思是，我们只是建立在这种仇恨之上。

And now we have this hate mountain over the friendship bridge.

现在我们在友谊桥上架起了这座仇恨之山。

It's really a beautiful thing.

这真是一件美好的事情。

[LAUGHS] OK, guys.

[笑]好吧，伙计们。

Tom says that the military creates an environment where people have to trust and communicate with each other, even if you don't like each other, which is not an attitude America seems to have these days about our democracy.

汤姆说，军队创造了一个人们必须相互信任和沟通的环境，即使你们彼此不喜欢，但这并不是美国如今对民主的态度。

I talked to them Wednesday the day after the election.

选举后的第二天星期三我与他们进行了交谈。

Tom said he'd be pretty horrified if Trump won.

汤姆说，如果特朗普获胜，他会感到非常震惊。

Chet just shrugged.

切特只是耸耸肩。

If Biden wins, he said, basically, whatever.

他说，如果拜登获胜，基本上，无论如何。

Both said they'd respect either outcome.

两人都表示，他们会尊重任何一个结果。

Stephanie Foo-- she used to be a producer on our program.

Stephanie Foo——她曾经是我们节目的制片人。

She's now writing a memoir about healing from complex PTSD.

她现在正在写一本关于复杂创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）康复的回忆录。

Coming up, somebody who thought his life was going to change a lot depending on who becomes president, though, now, it's not so clear.

即将到来的是，有人认为他的生活将根据谁成为总统而发生很大变化，但现在还不太清楚。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program, "Squeaker." I don't know if I should admit here how many minutes today we spent arguing over whether to call the episode "Electile Dysfunction." "Squeaker" was our classy choice.

今天的节目是《吱吱叫》。我不知道我是否应该在这里承认今天我们花了多少分钟争论是否将这一集称为“电热功能障碍”。 “Squeaker”是我们的优雅选择。

Anyway, our show this week is stories from all over about this strange week we've all just lived through, waiting for election results.

不管怎样，我们本周的节目是来自各地的故事，讲述我们刚刚经历过的奇怪的一周，等待选举结果。

Of course, for some people, the outcome of the presidential election might have a very direct effect on their lives.

当然，对于一些人来说，总统选举的结果可能会对他们的生活产生非常直接的影响。

Take, for instance, the people living in the tent camp that's just over the border from Texas, in Matamoros, Mexico.

以居住在墨西哥马塔莫罗斯德克萨斯州边境附近帐篷营地的人们为例。

A camp filled with people seeking asylum in the United States who'd been sent there under the president's remain-in-Mexico policy.

一个难民营里挤满了在美国寻求庇护的人，他们是根据总统的留在墨西哥政策被送往那里的。

On election night, they held a vigil all night long until 5:00 in the morning.

选举之夜，他们彻夜守夜，直到凌晨5:00。

Apparently, the pastors who put this together tried to keep it apolitical, stick with prayers and songs.

显然，将其放在一起的牧师们试图保持其非政治性，坚持祈祷和歌曲。

But by the end of the vigil, in the early morning hours, the last pastor who took the stage said the thing that apparently lots of them had been thinking all night.

但在守夜活动结束时，也就是凌晨时分，最后一位上台的牧师说了一句显然很多人整晚都在想的话。

He said, "I hope Joe Biden wins." And somebody who was there said it was like everybody finally had a chance to let out their feelings.

他说：“我希望乔·拜登获胜。”在场的有人说，好像每个人终于有机会表达自己的感受了。

They cheered.

他们欢呼起来。

They danced.

他们跳舞。

They've heard Joe Biden promise to reform immigration in his first 100 days in office.

他们听说乔·拜登承诺在上任的头 100 天内改革移民。

Which brings us to Act Three.

这让我们进入第三幕。

Act Three, Louisiana.

第三幕，路易斯安那州。

Ben Calhoun has this story of somebody else who's not from this country, who's been following the election as closely as he can.

本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun）讲述了一个来自非这个国家的人的故事，他一直在尽可能密切地关注选举。

Jonathan, who was in an ICE detention center in Louisiana, told me that this year's presidential race actually solved the problem in the detention centers he's been in.

乔纳森当时在路易斯安那州的一个 ICE 拘留中心，他告诉我，今年的总统竞选实际上解决了他所在的拘留中心的问题。

He's been moved around to a few.

他已经被转移到几个地方了。

Jonathan told me the recurring problem was with the TVs.

乔纳森告诉我，反复出现的问题是电视的问题。

Take the ICE detention center I called him in.

以我叫他去的 ICE 拘留中心为例。

It was this small triangular room, he said.

他说，就是这个三角形的小房间。

Yeah, it's a small triangle room attached to the dorm that, if you want to watch TV, get into that room and watch TV.

是的，这是一个附属于宿舍的小三角形房间，如果你想看电视，就进入那个房间看电视。

The problem with the detention center TVs, though-- well, sort of the same with any TV in America-- people can't agree what to watch.

然而，拘留中心电视的问题——嗯，与美国的任何电视都一样——人们无法就观看什么达成一致。

Should we watch English TV?

我们应该看英语电视吗？

Should we watch Spanish TV?

我们应该看西班牙电视吗？

Should there be time for news?

应该有时间看新闻吗？

Should there be time for music?

应该有时间听音乐吗？

Should there be time for football?

应该有时间踢足球吗？

Should there be time for fun program?

应该有时间参加有趣的节目吗？

So it's another conflict, that problem.

所以这是另一个冲突，那个问题。

Jonathan told me, during the 18 months he's been in ICE detention, one of the few times this wasn't an issue at all was the presidential debates this fall.

乔纳森告诉我，在他被 ICE 拘留的 18 个月里，今年秋天的总统辩论是为数不多的几次这根本不是问题的情况之一。

Everyone, Jonathan said, wanted to see those.

乔纳森说，每个人都想看到这些。

I called Jonathan the week before the election because I wanted to talk to someone in our immigration system whose case could potentially be affected by it.

我在选举前一周给乔纳森打了电话，因为我想与我们移民系统中的某个人交谈，他的案件可能会受到选举的影响。

I wondered how the election looked from where they were.

我想知道从他们所在的地方来看这次选举是什么样的。

Jonathan said he'd talked to other detainees about the election.

乔纳森说，他已经与其他被拘留者谈论了选举。

He'd been talking to guards, too.

他也一直在和警卫谈话。

Most of them, he told me, were Biden supporters.

他告诉我，他们中的大多数人都是拜登的支持者。

But yeah, lots of people were wondering how the election might change their cases, including him.

但是，是的，很多人都想知道这次选举可能会如何改变他们的情况，包括他。

Jonathan's 30.

乔纳森 30 岁。

He's from Cameroon.

他来自喀麦隆。

And he came to the US in 2019 seeking asylum.

他于2019年来到美国寻求庇护。

He's been stuck in detention ever since.

从那时起他就一直被拘留。

I think all that boils down to the administration of the foreign government.

我认为这一切都归结为外国政府的管理。

So based on the information and what I'm seeing, personal-- from my own personal point of view-- if Biden could win, hopefully, I think it will be better.

因此，根据信息和我所看到的情况，从我个人的角度来看，如果拜登能够获胜，我认为情况会更好。

Under President Trump, asylum seekers like Jonathan are getting deported, even ones with strong evidence that they're political refugees who will be tortured or killed if they return to their home countries.

在特朗普总统的领导下，像乔纳森这样的寻求庇护者正在被驱逐出境，即使是那些有确凿证据表明他们是政治难民的人，如果他们返回自己的祖国，也会受到酷刑或杀害。

Jonathan-- I should tell you, that is not his real name.

乔纳森——我应该告诉你，那不是他的真名。

I'm calling him that because he has family back in Cameroon, and he has good reason to worry about their safety.

我这么称呼他是因为他在喀麦隆有家人，他有充分的理由担心他们的安全。

Jonathan is part of an English-speaking minority that's been persecuted by Cameroon's French-speaking majority and its longtime autocratic president, Paul Biya.

乔纳森是英语少数群体的一员，该少数群体一直受到喀麦隆法语多数群体及其长期独裁总统保罗·比亚的迫害。

That whole situation has gotten more and more violent.

整个情况变得越来越暴力。

Jonathan wasn't part of that.

乔纳森没有参与其中。

He was a businessman, a grocery wholesaler.

他是一名商人，一名杂货批发商。

He bought stuff from farmers to sell in town.

他从农民那里买东西到城里卖。

And he started the business to support his mom after his dad died.

他父亲去世后，他开始做生意来支持他的母亲。

Basically, Jonathan got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

基本上，乔纳森在错误的时间、错误的地点被抓到了。

He was in this barber shop when it got raided by soldiers.

当这家理发店被士兵袭击时他就在里面。

He and 14 others got thrown in jail, and they were beaten and tortured for nearly a month.

他和另外14人被关进监狱，被殴打、折磨了近一个月。

At one point, a few men were taken out, and they never came back.

有一次，几个人被带走了，他们再也没有回来。

And the soldier told the rest of them that they were all going to get killed.

士兵告诉其他人，他们都会被杀。

Then, one day-- a warning, this is pretty graphic.

然后，有一天——一个警告，这是非常形象的。

One day, an officer took Jonathan and one other man at gunpoint, and he led them outside to a truck.

有一天，一名警官用枪指着乔纳森和另一名男子，他把他们带到外面的一辆卡车上。

He told them to clean it up.

他告诉他们把它清理干净。

And Jonathan looked inside it.

乔纳森朝里面看了看。

You see stains of blood, stains of blood, which likely will be human beings-- human beings and chopped particles.

你看到血迹，血迹，很可能是人类——人类和切碎的颗粒。

Jonathan says there was blood all over the inside, particles of flesh.

乔纳森说，里面到处都是血，肉粒。

He started to clean.

他开始打扫。

And then at some point, he noticed that the soldier was distracted and talking to someone.

然后在某个时候，他注意到这名士兵正在分心并正在与某人交谈。

When I have that window of opportunity.

当我有那个机会之窗的时候。

I said I will rather be killed while I'm trying to save my life than to stay and be killed.

我说过我宁愿在努力保命的时候被杀，也不愿留下来被杀。

Jonathan says he slipped around the corner of the building.

乔纳森说他从大楼的拐角处溜走了。

And then he ran through a cornfield, and he just kept running.

然后他跑过一片玉米地，他就一直跑。

Eventually, he got to a cousin's house and then eventually escaped to Ecuador.

最终，他到达了一个表弟的家，然后最终逃到了厄瓜多尔。

I just want to say Jonathan's account of all these details, it's all well supported by documents and photos and legal affidavits.

我只想说乔纳森对所有这些细节的描述，都有文件、照片和法律宣誓书的充分支持。

Among the documents, there's a warrant for Jonathan's arrest for, quote, "terrorism, secession, and insurrection." Jonathan told me if the government gets its hands on him, chances he'll be killed are 100%.

在这些文件中，有一份对乔纳森的逮捕令，引用的话是“恐怖主义、分裂国家和叛乱”。乔纳森告诉我，如果政府抓到他，他被杀的可能性是 100%。

That's what he said-- 100%.

他就是这么说的——100%。

Jonathan's attorney told me, under a different presidential administration than President Trump's, he thinks his asylum case would have a much better shot.

乔纳森的律师告诉我，在与特朗普总统不同的总统政府领导下，他认为他的庇护案会有更好的机会。

So after escaping, Jonathan went through nine countries.

所以逃亡之后，乔纳森走过了九个国家。

At some point, someone gave Jonathan a piece of advice that would end up being really important.

在某个时候，有人给了乔纳森一条最终变得非常重要的建议。

They said rip your passport up.

他们说撕掉你的护照。

It will make it harder for anyone to send you back to Cameroon.

这将使任何人更难将您送回喀麦隆。

So Jonathan did that.

所以乔纳森就这么做了。

In the end, he made it to the US.

最终，他来到了美国。

He made it into ICE custody.

他被 ICE 拘留。

I asked Jonathan why he didn't seek asylum in any of the other nine countries.

我问乔纳森为什么他不在其他九个国家寻求庇护。

And he told me it was simple.

他告诉我这很简单。

He didn't know enough about any of those other countries to know if they would protect him or if they'd send him back.

他对其他国家了解不够，不知道他们是否会保护他，或者是否会把他送回去。

All I know-- to be frank, what I know about United States, I know a country that can protect your human rights.

我所知道的——坦率地说，就我对美国的了解，我知道一个可以保护你们人权的国家。

That's one best thing that I know about-- that I knew before coming, that it's a country that protects human rights.

这是我所知道的最好的一件事——我来之前就知道这是一个保护人权的国家。

It was a county that I believed will protect me.

这是一个我相信会保护我的县。

I was taking the option because all I need was just protection.

我之所以做出这个选择，是因为我需要的只是保护。

All I need was just protection.

我所需要的只是保护。

A judge ordered Jonathan to be deported.

法官下令将乔纳森驱逐出境。

The only reason he and his lawyer thought he hadn't been is because Jonathan had taken that advice and destroyed his passport back in Panama.

他和他的律师认为他没有这么做的唯一原因是乔纳森采纳了这个建议并在巴拿马销毁了他的护照。

For months, ICE officers had been asking Jonathan to sign this document that would apparently let them send him back to Cameroon.

几个月来，ICE 官员一直要求乔纳森签署这份文件，显然可以让他们将他送回喀麦隆。

Jonathan has been refusing, telling them that he'll be tortured and killed.

乔纳森一直拒绝，并告诉他们他将受到酷刑并被杀害。

ICE, in response, told Jonathan they would hold him in indefinite detention until he signed.

作为回应，ICE 告诉乔纳森，他们将无限期拘留他，直到他签字为止。

And ICE, for their part-- well, they started leaning on Jonathan harder and harder.

而 ICE 则——好吧，他们开始越来越依赖乔纳森。

You have to sign this.

你必须签署这个。

Recently, he told me that situation came to a head when an ICE agent he knew led him into a room.

最近，他告诉我，当一名他认识的 ICE 特工带他进入一个房间时，情况达到了紧要关头。

He said he is not going to listen to anything from me.

他说他不会听我的任何消息。

His job is for me to sign this and for him to send me back to my country.

他的工作是让我签署此协议并让他将我送回我的国家。

Jonathan got on his knees and begged.

乔纳森跪下哀求。

Said he'd be killed.

说他会被杀。

The officer wasn't hearing it.

那位官员没有听到。

He said he needed a picture of Jonathan signing.

他说他需要一张乔纳森签名的照片。

So he repeated.

于是他又重复了一遍。

And he told me his job is for me to sign this thing and for me to take the photo.

他告诉我他的工作是让我在这个东西上签名并拍照。

So he even tried to grab my hand for the other person to take a photo of me.

所以他还试图抓住我的手让对方给我拍照。

So I was pleading.

所以我才恳求。

I cried.

我哭了。

I knelt down.

我跪下。

He should not do this to me.

他不应该这样对我。

He grabbed your hand.

他抓住了你的手。

Jonathan Yeah, he tried to grab my arm to take a photo.

乔纳森 是的，他试图抓住我的手臂拍照。

All of this only stopped, Jonathan says, when a female officer opened the door and asked what was going on.

乔纳森说，当一名女警官打开门询问发生了什么事时，所有这一切才停止。

She called the other officers over to her, and they talked where Jonathan couldn't really hear them.

她把其他警官叫到她身边，他们在乔纳森听不见的地方说话。

Then he was allowed to go call his lawyer.

然后他被允许去打电话给他的律师。

After Jonathan and I talked, we agreed that he would call me the day after the election at 5:00 PM.

乔纳森和我交谈后，我们同意他在选举后的第二天下午 5:00 给我打电话。

I wanted to hear his reaction to whatever results or non-results we'd have by then.

我想听听他对我们届时取得的任何结果或没有结果的反应。

But that never happened.

但那从未发生过。

Because the morning after the election, when everyone was waking up to a map with eight states still suspended and gray, I got a voicemail from Jonathan's lawyer.

因为选举后的第二天早上，当每个人醒来看到一张地图上有八个州仍处于暂停状态且呈灰色时，我收到了乔纳森律师的语音邮件。

Yeah, hi, Ben.

是的，嗨，本。

It's Ruth.

是露丝。

They've moved him somewhere.

他们把他转移到某个地方了。

I don't know where.

我不知道在哪里。

I have no idea where.

我不知道在哪里。

I can't get ahold of anybody at ICE or the Correctional Center.

我联系不到 ICE 或惩教中心的任何人。

Anyway, I'm going to be busy trying to find him.

无论如何，我会忙着寻找他。

I'll talk to you later.

我稍后再跟你谈。

Bye.

再见。

Ruth Hargrove, Jonathan's lawyer, couldn't find him.

乔纳森的律师露丝·哈格罗夫找不到他。

She'd woken up the morning after the election to see four missed calls on her phone.

选举后的第二天早上，她醒来发现手机上有四个未接来电。

It was this morning at 5 o'clock in the morning, but I don't know why I missed it.

那是今天早上五点钟，但我不知道为什么我错过了。

But then his aunt called me and said he was being moved.

但后来他的姨妈打电话给我说他要搬家了。

And--

还有——

Ruth told me the day before, Election Day, Jonathan told her about this unusual incident where ICE had taken him in to identify his belongings at a property room.

露丝告诉我，选举日的前一天，乔纳森告诉她这起不寻常的事件，ICE 把他带到财产室辨认他的财物。

And they asked about his sponsor-- which, he's got an aunt in Maryland who's offered to take him in while he tries to get asylum.

他们询问了他的担保人——他在马里兰州有一位姑妈，愿意在他寻求庇护时收留他。

Jonathan told Ruth he was hopeful that that's what was up, that he was finally getting out.

乔纳森告诉露丝，他希望事情就是这样，他终于能出去了。

But Ruth was suspicious.

但露丝对此表示怀疑。

She'd gotten this email from an activist group about a deportation flight to Cameroon on November 10.

她收到了一封来自激进组织的电子邮件，内容涉及 11 月 10 日飞往喀麦隆的驱逐航班。

She'd been getting increasingly nervous that Jonathan might get put on it.

她越来越担心乔纳森可能会被欺骗。

And so that morning, after the election, when Jonathan was just removed from the Louisiana detention center, Ruth started scrambling, just trying to figure out where exactly he was, where he was going.

所以那天早上，选举结束后，当乔纳森刚刚被从路易斯安那州拘留中心带出时，露丝开始手忙脚乱，只是想弄清楚他到底在哪里，要去哪里。

When we talked, she was still reeling.

当我们谈话时，她仍然感到头晕。

OK, so-- and I just found out-- I think he's on his way to a staging facility in Alexandria, Virginia-- not Virginia, Louisiana.

好吧，所以——我刚刚发现——我想他正在前往弗吉尼亚州亚历山大市的一个临时设施的途中，而不是路易斯安那州的弗吉尼亚州。

And that's a big staging area for flights out.

那是一个很大的起飞航班停靠区。

Ruth told me she was trying every legal avenue she could think of.

露丝告诉我，她正在尝试所有她能想到的法律途径。

She hadn't confirmed it 100% from ICE that Jonathan was being deported, but she was increasingly sure.

她尚未从 ICE 处百分百确认乔纳森将被驱逐出境，但她越来越确定。

It had to be that, she thought.

一定是这样，她想。

Before I play you this last piece of tape, I need to tell you a few things about Ruth.

在我给你播放最后一段磁带之前，我需要告诉你一些关于露丝的事情。

She's no softy.

她可不软弱。

She's a former prosecutor.

她是一名前检察官。

She's the wife of a former Navy SEAL and DEA agent.

她是前海豹突击队和缉毒局特工的妻子。

OK, but so, the first time we talked, she told me she had this kind of big worry around the election and around Jonathan.

好吧，但是，我们第一次谈话时，她告诉我她对选举和乔纳森有很大的担忧。

She was worried that even if Joe Biden won, the Trump administration officials would go on a scorched earth sort of tear with detainees like Jonathan and that he'd be deported as part of that.

她担心，即使乔·拜登获胜，特朗普政府官员也会与乔纳森这样的被拘留者陷入焦土般的撕裂，而他也会因此被驱逐出境。

This is what-- this is what I thought was going to happen, actually.

事实上，这就是我认为会发生的事情。

And I don't know if I told it to you or to someone else.

我不知道我是否告诉过你或其他人。

(VOICE QUAVERING) But the way I think of these people is that they didn't have confidence that Trump was going to win.

（声音颤抖）但我对这些人的看法是，他们对特朗普会获胜没有信心。

Maybe-- I think maybe they were wrong.

也许——我想也许他们错了。

[SNIFFLES] Then once he goes back, then I can't save him.

[抽鼻子]那么一旦他回去了，我就救不了他了。

If I could get a hearing here, if I could get him a fair hearing in front of a fair judge, he would be found to have suffered terrible persecution and to have been in great danger of future persecution.

如果我能在这里举行听证会，如果我能让他在公正的法官面前得到公正的听证会，他就会被认为遭受了可怕的迫害，并且面临着未来遭受迫害的巨大危险。

And you only have to show there's a 10% chance that he'll have a future persecution.

你只需要证明他未来有 10% 的可能性会受到迫害。

But there's a warrant for his arrest, and the government has it.

但他有逮捕令，而且政府也有逮捕令。

And they're going to-- they'll be there.

他们将会——他们将会在那里。

And the ICE officer I talked to last time I thought he was going to be deported when I said he has an arrest warrant for him, he said, oh, yes, he has an arrest warrant.

上次我和 ICE 官员交谈时，当我说他有逮捕令时，我以为他会被驱逐出境，他说，哦，是的，他有逮捕令。

The military will be there waiting for him at the airport.

军方将在机场等候他。

I mean, they know.

我的意思是，他们知道。

They know.

他们知道。

Thursday, as election results were still gathering in news headlines, I got a call from Jonathan, who was in a detention center in Texas.

周四，当选举结果仍在新闻头条中不断出现时，我接到了乔纳森的电话，他正在德克萨斯州的一个拘留中心。

And he filled me in on what had happened.

他向我讲述了发生的事情。

The morning after the election, he told me, an ICE officer came to see him around 5:00 AM and told Jonathan to take his stuff.

他告诉我，选举后的第二天早上，一名 ICE 官员早上 5:00 左右来看望他，并告诉乔纳森拿走他的东西。

They were going to the airport.

他们要去机场。

Jonathan says he begged him the whole way there.

乔纳森说他一路上都在哀求他。

Told him that if he was deported, he would be killed.

告诉他，如果他被驱逐出境，他就会被杀。

At the airport, he told me, he resisted.

他告诉我，在机场他进行了抵制。

He refused to get out of the vehicle.

他拒绝下车。

But the officers dragged him onto a plane, which took him and some other Cameroonians to Texas.

但警察把他拖上了飞机，把他和其他一些喀麦隆人带到了德克萨斯州。

He was told he would be there for a few days, unclear how many, but that he was there to be deported.

他被告知他将在那里待几天，不清楚要待几天，但他在那里是为了被驱逐出境。

I contacted ICE about Jonathan's situation.

我就乔纳森的情况联系了 ICE。

In a statement, a spokesperson said, he'd been, quote, "afforded extensive legal processes and was ultimately found by a federal judge to have no legal basis to remain in the United States," end quote.

一位发言人在一份声明中表示，他“接受了广泛的法律程序，最终被联邦法官认定没有法律依据留在美国”，引用结束。

They declined to give any information about when he might be deported, though an ICE officer confirmed to Ruth that Jonathan would be on a plane early next week.

他们拒绝透露有关乔纳森何时可能被驱逐出境的任何信息，尽管一名 ICE 官员向露丝证实乔纳森将在下周初登上飞机。

Before I got off the phone with Jonathan on Thursday, I asked him if he knew what would happen if he arrived in Cameroon.

周四，在我和乔纳森通完电话之前，我问他是否知道如果他到达喀麦隆会发生什么。

He said he'd been trying to reach relatives who might be able to help him.

他说他一直在努力联系可能能够帮助他的亲戚。

I have no idea what awaits me, he said.

“我不知道等待我的是什么，”他说。

He just kept repeating that.

他只是不断地重复这句话。

He told me, other than talking to his lawyer, Ruth, and trying to reach family for help, he'd been spending all of his time praying.

他告诉我，除了与他的律师露丝交谈并试图向家人寻求帮助之外，他一直把所有的时间都花在祈祷上。

Ben Calhoun is one of the producers of our show.

本·卡尔霍恩是我们节目的制片人之一。

Act Four, Detroit.

第四幕，底特律。

In a bunch of cities around the country this week, Republicans have congregated in election centers where votes are being tallied, protesting, chanting for the counting to stop, or, in the case of Arizona, where President Trump is behind the vote count, chanting for the counting to continue.

本周，在全国许多城市，共和党人聚集在计票的选举中心，抗议，高呼停止计票的口号，或者在亚利桑那州，特朗普总统支持计票，高呼继续计票。

We wondered what it would be like to be inside one of those counting rooms trying to do your job with all that chaos going on outside.

我们想知道，在外面一片混乱的情况下，在其中一间计数室里努力完成工作会是什么样子。

Emanuele Berry talked to a woman who was inside the vote counting room in Detroit when Trump supporters tried to get inside, chanted, banged on the windows.

当特朗普的支持者试图进入计票室时，埃马努埃莱·贝里与底特律计票室内的一名妇女交谈，她们高呼口号，敲打窗户。

Khalilah Gaston lives in Detroit.

卡莉拉·加斯顿住在底特律。

She's a news junkie.

她是个新闻迷。

For this year's presidential election, she kept thinking she'd volunteer.

对于今年的总统选举，她一直认为自己会做志愿者。

And on Tuesday night, she saw her chance, a Facebook post asking for poll watchers to watch the counting of mail-in ballots in Detroit.

周二晚上，她看到了机会，在 Facebook 上发帖，要求投票观察员观看底特律邮寄选票的计票情况。

It was at a big convention center.

那是在一个大型会议中心。

On Wednesday morning, she goes through training.

周三早上，她接受训练。

Then she walks into the room where there are 134 tables where votes are being processed.

然后她走进有 134 张桌子的房间，那里正在处理选票。

She's assigned a partner and an aisle of tables to watch.

她指派了一名搭档和一排桌子来观看。

And even though it was my first time, I was like, I'm in the game.

尽管这是我第一次，但我就想，我参与了游戏。

So you gotta-- and I actually heard these two Trump supporters say that.

所以你必须——我实际上听到这两位特朗普支持者这么说。

They said democracy is a contact sport.

他们说民主是一项接触运动。

And if you're not in the game, then you can't complain in the outcome.

如果你不在游戏中，那么你就不能抱怨结果。

You can't complain if you don't win.

如果你没有赢，你就不能抱怨。

And so as a former athlete, for me, I was like, OK, it's game time, you know?

作为一名前运动员，对我来说，我当时想，好吧，现在是比赛时间了，你知道吗？

Each state has their own rules for poll watching.

每个州都有自己的民意调查规则。

In Michigan, Republicans and Democrats are allowed to have one challenger per table.

在密歇根州，共和党和民主党每张桌子都可以有一名挑战者。

Challengers can challenge a ballot.

挑战者可以挑战选票。

And then there are also poll watchers, like Khalilah, who cannot challenge votes or ballots, but can observe the counting.

还有投票观察员，例如哈利拉，他们不能质疑选票或选票，但可以观察计票情况。

And honestly, it's all pretty tame.

老实说，这一切都很温和。

Khalilah stands on the side of the room, looking around, taking notes, raising small concerns with supervising staff, like if a person isn't wearing their mask properly.

卡莉拉站在房间的一侧，环顾四周，做笔记，向监督人员提出一些小问题，比如是否有人没有正确佩戴口罩。

That's how her day starts out.

她的一天就这样开始了。

She's just one of hundreds of people in a room watching hundreds of other people count ballots.

她只是房间里数百人之一，看着其他数百人计票。

But a couple hours in, things change.

但几个小时后，情况发生了变化。

Around, I want to say, between 11:00 and 12:00, that's when I noticed really just a shift in the climate in the room.

我想说，大约在 11:00 到 12:00 之间，我注意到房间里的气候确实发生了变化。

People started-- yeah, some people started just getting more chippy.

人们开始——是的，有些人开始变得更加活泼。

Most of the Republican poll watchers were doing their job without issues.

大多数共和党民意调查观察员都在毫无问题地完成自己的工作。

But a handful of them started to become disruptive.

但其中少数人开始变得具有破坏性。

I saw with my own eyes, at my table where I was, berating people as they were handling ballots.

我亲眼看到，在我所在的桌子旁，人们在处理选票时斥责他们。

They were being asked what their political party was.

他们被问到他们的政党是什么。

And these were election workers who were handling ballots.

这些是处理选票的选举工作人员。

Are you a Democrat?

你是民主党人吗？

Are you a Republican?

你是共和党人吗？

I saw people challenging ballots before they even got to the table, so making blanket statements.

我看到人们在到达投票桌之前就对选票提出质疑，因此发表了笼统的声明。

I'm challenging every ballot at this table.

我正在挑战这张桌子上的每一张选票。

And it's like, well, there's no ballots at the table.

就好像，桌子上没有选票。

She was told this might happen in training, that people may cause a scene or try and distract or slow down vote counting.

她被告知这可能会在训练中发生，人们可能会引起骚乱，或者试图分散注意力或减慢计票速度。

I think for me, it was very emotional at a certain point.

我想对我来说，在某个时刻是非常情绪化的。

I saw a lot of colleagues, a lot of friends, a lot of elders in our community who were there.

我看到很多同事、很多朋友、我们社区的很多长辈都在那里。

And so for me, seeing elders of our community, people who had dedicated eight years to do this, being berated and physically intimidated by, in a lot of instances, younger white people, right, the optics were very disconcerting.

所以对我来说，看到我们社区的长辈们，他们花了八年时间来做这件事，在很多情况下受到年轻白人的斥责和身体恐吓，对吧，这种景象非常令人不安。

You also had people in there talking about their Second Amendment rights.

那里也有人谈论他们的第二修正案权利。

And so eventually, people started to be escorted out of the room.

最终，人们开始被护送出房间。

At this point, Joe Biden was starting to take the lead in Michigan.

此时，乔·拜登开始在密歇根州占据领先地位。

And there were growing rumors and disinformation spreading online about election fraud in Detroit.

关于底特律选举舞弊的谣言和虚假信息在网上传播得越来越多。

More poll watchers showed up in the lobby, demanding to be let into the counting room.

更多民调观察者出现在大厅，要求进入计票室。

The building officials refused, saying they had too many people in there already, including over 500 Republican and Democratic poll watchers.

大楼官员拒绝了，称里面已经有太多人，其中包括 500 多名共和党和民主党民意调查观察员。

Even more people gathered outside the building.

更多的人聚集在大楼外面。

And what you ended up with was a group of mostly white people, chanting, "stop the vote, stop the count," in a city of mostly Black voters.

最终，在一个以黑人选民为主的城市里，一群以白人为主的人高呼“停止投票，停止计票”。

The thing that I have thought about over and over again during this election cycle is that Black people exercising their political will is seen as cheating.

在这个选举周期中，我反复思考的一件事是，黑人行使政治意愿被视为作弊。

Just this Thursday, the president called two cities with large Black populations, Detroit and Philadelphia, quote, "two of the most corrupt political places anywhere in our country" with no evidence for this at all, and declared that these cities, quote, "cannot be responsible for engineering the outcome of a presidential race."

就在本周四，总统在没有任何证据的情况下，称底特律和费城这两个拥有大量黑人人口的城市是“我们国家最腐败的两个政治场所”，并宣称这些城市“不能负责策划总统竞选的结果”。

Wednesday afternoon at the convention center, as the crowd outside kept getting bigger, Khalilah wasn't aware of any of it.

周三下午，在会议中心，外面的人群越来越多，哈利拉却对此一无所知。

She wasn't near the windows.

她并不靠近窗户。

But then things slowed down at her tables, and she took a stroll.

但后来她的餐桌上的事情就慢了下来，她开始散步。

I walked to the front by the media pen, and that's when I saw literally a man climbing the windows.

我走到媒体围栏前面，就在那时我看到一个男人正在爬窗户。

I saw people screaming, pushing on the doors.

我看到人们尖叫着，推门。

And one of my close friends was there checking in observers and challengers.

我的一位亲密朋友在那里检查观察者和挑战者。

And she was just really overwhelmed.

她真的不知所措。

And then later on, you could feel it.

后来，你就能感觉到了。

You could feel and you could see the window shaking while we were in there.

当我们在那里时，你可以感觉到并且可以看到窗户在摇晃。

And--

还有——

My worst fear was-- I hope, one, no one opens the door.

我最担心的是——我希望，没有人开门。

Are they going to try to force us to stop counting the vote?

他们会试图迫使我们停止计票吗？

Are they going to try to physically harm us?

他们会试图对我们进行身体伤害吗？

Are people armed?

人们有武装吗？

I mean, we're in Michigan, right, where you had people storm the State Capitol with guns just a month earlier, right?

我的意思是，我们在密歇根州，对吧，就在一个月前，人们用枪冲进了州议会大厦，对吗？

You had members of the militia-- you know, a plot uncovered to try to kidnap our governor.

你们有民兵成员——你知道，一个试图绑架我们州长的阴谋被揭露了。

Khalilah was concerned about what was happening outside.

卡莉拉担心外面发生的事情。

But she had another feeling as she was standing there watching people inside-- pride.

但当她站在那里看着里面的人时，她有另一种感觉——骄傲。

They all just kept working, kept counting the votes.

他们都继续工作，继续计票。

Around 7:00 PM, Khalilah headed home.

晚上 7:00 左右，卡莉拉回家了。

She felt relieved to be done.

事情完成了，她感到如释重负。

But Thursday--

但是星期四——

This morning when I woke up, I just busted out crying.

今天早上我醒来的时候，我就哭了。

And I was like, what?

我当时想，什么？

What just happened?

刚刚发生了什么？

It was like, why all of that emotion?

就像，为什么会有那么多的情绪？

And it took me a minute.

我花了一分钟。

And I was like, that was traumatic, right?

我当时想，这很痛苦，对吧？

What occurred last night was traumatic.

昨晚发生的事情令人痛苦。

But trauma isn't the main feeling Khalilah took away from this experience.

但创伤并不是哈利拉从这次经历中获得的主要感受。

She feels emboldened.

她感觉自己有底气了。

She says she's definitely going to poll watch again.

她说她肯定会再次进行民意调查。

Emanuele Berry is the executive editor of our show.

埃马努埃莱·贝里 (Emanuele Berry) 是我们节目的执行编辑。

Act Five, Miami.

第五幕，迈阿密。

So maybe this is going to be the year when everybody gets the memo that Latino voters are not an actual thing.

因此，也许今年每个人都会意识到拉丁裔选民并不存在。

They're not a voting bloc with shared interests and identities and political affiliations who all vote the same.

他们不是一个拥有共同利益、身份和政治立场、投票相同的投票集团。

This year, Mexican-Americans in Arizona put the state within reach of the Democrats for the first time since the '90s.

今年，亚利桑那州的墨西哥裔美国人自 90 年代以来首次将该州置于民主党的控制之下。

Meanwhile, on the other side of the country, Cuban-Americans and Venezuelans helped seal the deal of President Trump's victory in Florida.

与此同时，在美国的另一边，古巴裔美国人和委内瑞拉人帮助达成了特朗普总统在佛罗里达州获胜的协议。

And then there's the generational split.

然后是代际分裂。

Young Latinos tend to be more liberal than their parents.

年轻的拉丁美洲人往往比他们的父母更加自由。

Nadia Reiman talked to a family like that, a mother and son from Miami.

纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 采访了这样一个家庭，一对来自迈阿密的母子。

They're Venezuelan, and they're split.

他们是委内瑞拉人，但他们是分裂的。

When I asked Marco and his mom Ninotchka how often they talked about politics, they were like, oh, it's a topic.

当我问马可和他的妈妈尼诺奇卡谈论政治的频率时，他们说，哦，这是一个话题。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman A lot.

[说西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 很多。

"We actually invite it," they say.

“我们实际上邀请它，”他们说。

Which can be tricky, because Marco voted for Biden and Ninotchka for Trump.

这可能很棘手，因为马可投票给了拜登，尼诺奇卡投票给了特朗普。

They're part of that Venezuelan voting bloc in Florida that the press has been freaking out about, wondering why, oh, why would Latinos-- as if we were one thing-- vote for Trump?

他们是佛罗里达州委内瑞拉投票集团的一部分，媒体一直对此感到震惊，想知道为什么，哦，为什么拉丁裔——就好像我们是一回事一样——投票给特朗普？

The family moved to Miami 20 years ago.

20 年前，全家搬到了迈阿密。

They all still live together.

他们仍然住在一起。

Marco and Ninotchka actually work together at her accounting firm.

Marco 和 Ninotchka 实际上在她的会计师事务所一起工作。

Marco tells his mom, because of Venezuela, I already knew you were going for Trump.

马可告诉他的妈妈，因为委内瑞拉，我已经知道你会支持特朗普。

Because Biden didn't come out hard against Maduro and Venezuela's socialist government.

因为拜登并没有强烈反对马杜罗和委内瑞拉的社会主义政府。

Ninotchka also says Biden flirted-- her words-- with Cuba too much, and that was all a deal breaker for her, too close to communism.

尼诺奇卡还表示，用她的话说，拜登与古巴调情太多，这对她来说完全是一个破坏性的因素，因为她离共产主义太近了。

She can't even say Venezuela's former president's name, Hugo Chavez.

她甚至不能说出委内瑞拉前总统乌戈·查韦斯的名字。

She called him [SPANISH] which is-- and I'm not even exaggerating-- "he who must not be named," like Voldemort.

她称他为[西班牙语]——我一点也不夸张——“他的名字不能被提及”，就像伏地魔一样。

Ninotchka really wants you to know, though, that she didn't vote for Trump.

不过，尼诺奇卡真的想让你知道，她没有投票给特朗普。

She voted for the Republican Party.

她投票给了共和党。

She doesn't like him-- at least, not a lot.

她不喜欢他——至少不喜欢很多。

She thinks he's really rude about immigrants, which she thinks is hypocritical, given that his wife is an immigrant.

她认为他对移民非常粗鲁，考虑到他的妻子是移民，她认为这是虚伪的。

She thinks he's arrogant.

她觉得他很傲慢。

She also told me she hated the way he treats reporters, though I'm aware she said this to a reporter.

她还告诉我，她讨厌他对待记者的方式，尽管我知道她是对记者这么说的。

I asked Marco how it made him feel that his mom voted for Trump.

我问马可，他的妈妈投票给了特朗普，这让他有什么感觉。

He squirmed.

他蠕动着。

He moved his hands a lot, avoided eye contact.

他频繁地移动双手，避免目光接触。

It's a mess, he says.

他说，这真是一团糟。

It's a mental and emotional mess.

这是一种精神和情感上的混乱。

I feel strange.

我感觉很奇怪。

I don't want to say "betrayed."

我不想说“背叛”。

He's like, damn.

他就像，该死的。

I know other friends and other parents who also came here because of politics, also from Venezuela, and they went for Biden.

我认识其他朋友和其他父母，他们也因为政治原因来到这里，也来自委内瑞拉，他们选择了拜登。

And so it makes me think, what did these other parents find out that made them make a different decision, one that's more like mine?

所以这让我思考，这些其他父母发现了什么，让他们做出了不同的决定，一个更像我的决定？

He said his mom's vote made him feel a little ashamed.

他说他妈妈的投票让他感到有点羞愧。

Ninotchka does not even get a little upset about this.

Ninotchka 甚至没有为此感到一点不安。

She's like socialism, honey.

她就像社会主义，亲爱的。

You didn't live through it.

你没有经历过这一切。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman She says, it's like you have a scar, and it doesn't get erased.

[西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 她说，这就像你身上有一道伤疤，而且无法抹去。

And it still hurts, and it won't close up.

而且还是很痛，而且还无法愈合。

How are you going to understand if you haven't lived it, she tells me.

她告诉我，如果你没有经历过，你怎么能理解。

How is he going to get it if he hasn't lived it either?

如果他也没有经历过，他怎么能得到它呢？

She points at Marco.

她指着马可。

But those of us who have lived it always feel it here, she says, and she points at her heart, and here, and she points at her head.

但我们这些经历过这种生活的人总是在这里感受到它，她说，她指着她的心，在这里，她指着她的头。

I asked her if she thought the people who were scared about Trump, who think he may be the start of a regime itself, like fascism, if she thought they were wrong.

我问她是否认为那些害怕特朗普、认为他可能是法西斯主义等政权本身的人是错误的。

She said no. She said she could see it.

她说不。她说她能看到。

But that still seemed so far away and unreal, compared to the socialism she did live through.

但与她所经历的社会主义相比，这仍然显得那么遥远和不真实。

One was a possibility.

其一是一种可能性。

The other was already a reality.

另一个已经成为现实。

And then, just as we were wrapping up the interview, she said, we got to just wait calmly for results.

然后，就在我们结束采访时，她说，我们只能平静地等待结果。

And honestly, for the good of the country, maybe Biden should win.

老实说，为了国家的利益，也许拜登应该获胜。

Trump makes people so angry.

特朗普让人们如此愤怒。

This surprised me.

这让我很惊讶。

She had been so clear about not wanting Biden.

她非常明确地表示不想要拜登。

But when she unpacked it a little more, I understood.

但当她把包装再拆开一点时，我就明白了。

She doesn't want unrest.

她不想动乱。

That, she knows very well.

这一点，她非常清楚。

She knows how that story ends.

她知道这个故事的结局。

Nadia Reiman is one of the producers of our show.

纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 是我们节目的制片人之一。

Act Six, Massachusetts.

第六幕，马萨诸塞州。

So one of our producers, Sean Cole, saw some talking head types on CNN recently, discussing the stakes of this year's presidential election and how both Democrats and Republicans see it as "existential." That's the word they used-- "existential." Like, the very existence of our democracy or even our planet hangs in the balance, which-- it can seem kind of abstract.

因此，我们的制片人之一肖恩·科尔（Sean Cole）最近在 CNN 上看到了一些谈话人物，讨论了今年总统选举的利害关系，以及民主党和共和党如何将其视为“存在主义”。这就是他们用的词——“存在主义”。就像，我们的民主甚至我们的星球的存在都悬而未决，这似乎有点抽象。

In these past few weeks, as we approached Election Day, Sean and somebody very close to him have been dealing with very immediate and real world existential questions.

在过去的几周里，随着选举日的临近，肖恩和一位与他关系密切的人一直在处理非常紧迫和现实世界的存在问题。

Here's Sean.

这是肖恩。

About two weeks before the election, my stepfather, Ed, was admitted to Cape Cod Hospital.

选举前大约两周，我的继父埃德住进了科德角医院。

He was rushed there in an ambulance with extreme shortness of breath, like he was suffocating.

他被救护车送往那里，呼吸极度急促，就像窒息一样。

It turned out to be lung cancer, a tumor almost the size of a golf ball that caused all this fluid to build up in his left lung, plus a precarious blood clot on the same lung.

事实证明，这是肺癌，一种几乎有高尔夫球大小的肿瘤，导致所有这些液体在他的左肺中积聚，并且在同一个肺上出现了不稳定的血凝块。

I raced up there from New York before even knowing the diagnosis.

在得知诊断结果之前，我就从纽约赶到了那里。

Ed's 90 and had already been battling stage four prostate cancer for a couple of years.

艾德已经 90 岁了，多年来一直在与第四期前列腺癌作斗争。

So there's been this ambient sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

所以有一种等待另一只鞋落地的氛围。

When I got to the hospital, two nurses were settling him into the room where he'd spend the next four days.

当我到达医院时，两名护士正在把他安置在房间里，他将在那里度过接下来的四天。

One of them asked him a whole battery of standard intake questions.

其中一个人问了他一系列标准的入学问题。

History of smoking?

有吸烟史吗？

Yes.

是的。

Do you drink caffeine?

你喝咖啡因吗？

Yes.

是的。

And then she said, do you feel threatened by anyone at home or just in your life?

然后她说，你是否感到受到家里或生活中任何人的威胁？

Ed paused, looked down, and said, the president.

艾德停了下来，低下头说道，总统。

I thought that was really funny-- and also telling.

我觉得这真的很有趣——而且也很能说明问题。

Even in this dire moment for him, Trump and the election still kept bobbing back up to the surface.

即使在这个对他来说可怕的时刻，特朗普和选举仍然不断浮出水面。

Ed's a Democrat.

艾德是民主党人。

He follows the news pretty closely.

他非常密切地关注新闻。

And back when he was merely contending with stage four prostate cancer, he told me several times that he just wanted to live long enough to see what happens with the election.

当他仅仅与第四期前列腺癌作斗争时，他多次告诉我，他只是想活得足够长，看看选举会发生什么。

He's had zero existential dread beyond that.

除此之外，他对存在的恐惧为零。

And at some point during his hospital stay, I realized this was almost certainly going to be Ed's last presidential election.

在埃德住院期间的某个时刻，我意识到这几乎肯定会是埃德的最后一次总统选举。

And I wondered if he might be experiencing it differently than the rest of us.

我想知道他的经历是否与我们其他人不同。

So for a couple of my daily hospital visits, I brought my recorder along.

因此，在我每天去医院几次时，我都带着录音机。

Oh my god, I'll be glad that it'll be the last election.

天啊，我很高兴这将是最后一次选举。

Are you kidding?

你在开玩笑吧？

Why?

为什么？

They're such nonsensical things, and people act like assholes-- excuse the expression.

这些都是荒谬的事情，人们表现得像个混蛋——请原谅我这样说。

I mean, being a Republican has turned into some kind of religion now, and being a Democrat, too.

我的意思是，作为一名共和党人现在已经变成了某种宗教，作为一名民主党人也是如此。

And once again, I have the best position in the house.

我再一次拥有了家里最好的位置。

If Trump wins, I don't care if I die.

如果特朗普赢了，我不在乎我是不是死了。

And if Biden wins, OK, Trump's gone.

如果拜登获胜，那么特朗普就下台了。

Do you think you'll make it till the election?

你认为你能坚持到大选吗？

Well, I'll be mighty pissed at these doctors if I don't.

好吧，如果我不这样做，我会对这些医生非常生气。

At that point-- again, this was more than a week before Election Day-- the doctors still hadn't given him a prognosis about how long he might live.

那时——距离选举日还有一个多星期——医生仍然没有对他的寿命做出预测。

They did tell him that the blood clot could detach at any time and go to his brain or his heart and kill him.

他们确实告诉他，血凝块随时可能脱落并进入他的大脑或心脏并杀死他。

He was equally sanguine and philosophical about that as he's been about the cancer.

正如他对待癌症一样，他对此也同样乐观和达观。

Told me the clot will either kill him or it won't.

告诉我血块要么会杀死他，要么不会。

And if it doesn't, why should he worry?

如果没有，他为什么要担心？

And if it does, he won't be able to worry.

如果真是这样，他就不用担心了。

He's so placid about his mortality that it doesn't leave a lot of room for me morosely wringing my hands about it when I'm with him.

他对自己的死亡如此平静，以至于当我和他在一起时，我没有太多的空间为这件事忧郁地绞尽脑汁。

But now there's this kind of gradient from what he's probably still going to be alive for to what he might be, to what he probably won't be.

但现在存在着这样一种梯度：从他可能仍会活着到他可能成为的人，再到他可能不会成为的人。

And he doesn't get to choose, of course.

当然，他无权选择。

But I thought I'd ask him anyway.

但我想无论如何我都会问他。

How long do you want to be around for?

您想在我们身边呆多久？

What are the things that you want to see still?

您还想看到哪些内容？

Well, let's see.

好吧，让我们看看。

Biden will take over.

拜登将接任。

Trump still will be a lame duck president after the election, but still be president.

特朗普在大选后仍然会是一个跛脚鸭总统，但仍然是总统。

So three months.

那么三个月。

At least.

至少。

Maybe two more.

也许还有两个。

I'm not going to commit suicide and-- you know.

我不会自杀，而且——你知道。

I'm not going to say I'd like to be around three months, and then four months go by and people say, why are you still alive?

我不会说我想活三个月左右，然后四个月过去了，人们会说，你为什么还活着？

That doesn't make any sense, not to me.

这没有任何意义，对我来说没有意义。

As long as I'm not in acute pain, I don't mind a little inconvenience to stay alive.

只要我没有剧烈疼痛，我不介意生存上有一点不便。

There might be a good show on once in a while.

偶尔可能会有好戏上演。

Or there might be a good book to read.

或者可能有一本好书值得读。

I mean, I'm not one that wants to live just for the sake of living.

我的意思是，我不是一个为了生活而生活的人。

I think it's an excellent time, in the next two or three years, to die.

我认为在接下来的两三年内，这是一个绝佳的死亡时机。

Why?

为什么？

Ed You're avoiding all sorts of huge problems.

艾德：你正在避免各种大问题。

We have global warming coming out big time.

全球变暖即将来临。

The country is still going to be divided, even if Biden wins.

即使拜登获胜，这个国家仍然会分裂。

And he's got a hell of a time putting it back together, but I think he might.

他花了很长时间才把它重新组装起来，但我认为他可能会。

But still, Europe is going totalitarian.

但欧洲仍在走向极权主义。

This country is going more totalitarian, which is scary.

这个国家正在变得更加极权，这是可怕的。

So there's not much to look forward to.

所以没有什么值得期待的。

Things I would like to see are answers to big questions.

我希望看到的是大问题的答案。

Is there intelligent life in this universe that is not on Earth?

这个宇宙中是否存在地球以外的智慧生命？

And I would like to--

我想——

He went on to talk about this thing he read about possible evidence of life on Venus.

他接着谈到了他读到的有关金星上可能存在生命的证据的事情。

As usual, he got excited talking about this stuff, like a kid.

像往常一样，他像个孩子一样兴奋地谈论这些事情。

I think it's his curiosity that's kept him around this long.

我认为正是他的好奇心让他坚持了这么久。

The same curiosity-- not partisanship or spite or ghoulish vengefulness, but curiosity-- that's had him wanting to see how the election plays out, which I think is such a pure perspective to watch this whole yucky circus from, especially as he'd be totally forgiven for just changing the channel.

同样的好奇心——不是党派之争、怨恨或残忍的报复，而是好奇心——让他想看看选举结果如何，我认为这是观看整个令人讨厌的马戏团的纯粹视角，尤其是因为他只是改变频道就完全可以原谅。

Hi, son.

嗨，儿子。

Sean Cole Hi, Ed.

肖恩·科尔 你好，埃德。

How are you doing?

你好吗？

Fair to middling.

公平到中等。

Sean Cole Fair to middling.

肖恩·科尔还算中等。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

Sean Cole This call was early Friday morning, three days after Election Day.

肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 这次通话是在周五清晨，即选举日三天后进行的。

Ed was back home from the hospital with three new prescriptions, including a heavy-duty blood thinner for the clot, which has actually been working.

埃德从医院回到家，带着三张新处方，其中包括一种用于血栓的强力血液稀释剂，这种药物实际上一直在起作用。

And while almost everyone else I knew was biting their nails, waiting for the electoral scoreboard to change, Ed was not.

当我认识的几乎所有人都在咬指甲等待选举记分牌发生变化时，埃德却没有。

In fact, on election night itself, he did change the channel.

事实上，在选举之夜，他确实改变了频道。

Didn't even watch the returns come in.

连回报都没有看。

No, I watched a Hallmark movie, which you know is scripted.

不，我看了一部霍尔马克电影，你知道这是有剧本的。

You can always tell the outcome after five minutes.

五分钟后你就可以知道结果。

It's like the opposite of this election, basically.

基本上，这与这次选举相反。

Yeah.

是的。

It's like the opposite of a lot of things in life-- most things.

这就像生活中很多事情的反面——大多数事情。

What's more interesting than who wins is what happens now.

比谁获胜更有趣的是现在发生的事情。

Yeah.

是的。

Ed It'll be far more interesting.

艾德 这会更有趣。

Will the Trump supporters try to look for another person like Trump?

特朗普的支持者会试图寻找另一个像特朗普一样的人吗？

Will they try to find a leader?

他们会尝试寻找领导者吗？

How is Russia going to behave?

俄罗斯将如何表现？

It almost sounds like the script at the end of an episode of a TV show where they give you the cliffhanger.

这听起来几乎就像电视节目的一集结尾处的剧本，他们给你悬念。

Like, will the dynamic duo escape the clutches of-- find out.

就像，这对充满活力的二人组能否逃脱——找出答案。

Exactly.

确切地。

And I hope-- for the country's sake, not for mine, because I won't be living that long in the future.

我希望——为了国家，而不是为了我，因为我将来活不了那么久。

So I hope, for the country's sake, that Biden wins.

因此，为了国家的利益，我希望拜登获胜。

I told Ed there's this thing I've been trying to square.

我告诉艾德，我一直在努力解决这件事。

How he can be so at peace with his own mortality, and yet so concerned for the fate of the country and, really, the world he's leaving behind?

他怎么能如此平静地接受自己的死亡，同时又如此关心国家的命运，实际上，关心他所留下的世界的命运？

Those seem like opposites, I said.

我说，这些看起来似乎是对立的。

And he said he didn't see the conflict.

他说他没有看到冲突。

Of course he's concerned.

他当然担心。

Yes, he's not going to be around a lot longer, but we will.

是的，他不会再活太久了，但我们会的。

And he still cares about that.

而且他仍然关心这一点。

Sean Cole is one of the producers of our show.

肖恩·科尔是我们节目的制片人之一。

[MUSIC - "THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND" BY SHARON JONES & THE DAP-KINGS]

[音乐 - SHARON JONES 和 DAP-KINGS 的“这片土地是你的土地”]

Well, our program was produced today by Dana Chivvis and Ben Calhoun.

嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Dana Chivvis 和 Ben Calhoun 制作的。

The people who together today's show include Elna Baker, Susan Burton, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Hilary Elkins, Noor Gill, Damien Grave, Michelle Harris, Chana Joffe-Walt, Andrea López-Cruzado, Miki Meek, Lina Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Lisa Pollak, Nadia Reiman, Robyn Semien, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.

今天的节目包括 Elna Baker、Susan Burton、Sean Cole、Aviva DeKornfeld、Hilary Elkins、Noor Gill、Damien Grave、Michelle Harris、Chana Joffe-Walt、Andrea López-Cruzado、Miki Meek、Lina Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Lisa Pollak、Nadia Reiman、Robyn Semien、莉莉·沙利文、克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉、马特·蒂尔尼和黛安·吴。

Our managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman.

我们的总编辑莎拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。

Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.

我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。

Our executive editor, Emanuele Berry.

我们的执行编辑埃马努埃莱·贝里。

Special thanks today to Rose and Steve Johnson, the Rural Utah Project, Kate Groetzinger, Dilianna Bustillos, Vero Cardenas, Harini Krishnan, Janani Ganesh, Ryan Fisher, Grant Rommel, Josh Mendelsohn, Claire Wardle, Lisa Kaplan, Cindy Otis and Sophie Lawton of the Alethea Group, Elena Cryst, Kyle Vass, Lizzy Johnson, Christopher Rhoads, Joe Certaine, Mel D.

今天特别感谢 Rose 和 Steve Johnson、犹他州乡村项目、Kate Groetzinger、Dilianna Busstillos、Vero Cardenas、Harini Krishnan、Janani Ganesh、Ryan Fisher、Grant Rommel、Josh Mendelsohn、Claire Wardle、Lisa Kaplan、Cindy Otis 和 Alethea Group 的 Sophie Lawton、Elena Cryst、Kyle Vass、Lizzy Johnson、Christopher Rhoads、Joe certaine、Mel D .

Cole, Madeline Heim, Tamara Stevens, Jennifer Jordan, Laura Yellig, Zoe Clark, Sarah Hulett, Ursula Luse, Jared Marcelle, and Taylor Armstrong.

科尔、玛德琳·海姆、塔玛拉·史蒂文斯、詹妮弗·乔丹、劳拉·耶利格、佐伊·克拉克、莎拉·休莱特、乌苏拉·卢斯、贾里德·马塞尔和泰勒·阿姆斯特朗。

Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.

我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

He does a really bad impression of a kitchen door that's been left open on a windy day.

他对大风天开着的厨房门印象非常不好。

Here he is, Torey.

他在这里，托雷。

Bang, bang, bang, bang.

砰，砰，砰，砰。

Militia Man Bang.

民兵曼邦。

Bang.

砰。

Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.

艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week.

下周回来。

I wonder if we'll have a president by then.

我想知道到那时我们是否会有总统。

See you soon.

再见。

[MUSIC - "THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND" BY SHARON JONES & THE DAP-KINGS]

[音乐 - SHARON JONES 和 DAP-KINGS 的“这片土地是你的土地”]

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。