722: The Unreality of Now - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #722 | October 30, 2020 722: The Unreality of Now Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 722 集 | 2020 年 10 月 30 日 722：现在的不现实 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Hey, there, America.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 嘿，美国。
Can we just get this election over with already?
我们可以结束这次选举吗？
We've had enough excitement, right?
我们已经兴奋够了，对吧？
More than enough plot twists.
情节曲折绰绰有余。
The president getting coronavirus, Ruth Bader Ginsburg dying, that whole first debate, the alleged contents of Hunter Biden's hard drive-- which are either totally unconvincing or deeply, urgently important, depending on your point of view.
总统感染了冠状病毒，露丝·巴德·金斯伯格去世，整个第一场辩论，亨特·拜登硬盘上所谓的内容——这些要么完全没有说服力，要么非常紧急，这取决于你的观点。
We finally got to see the president's tax records after all these years.
这么多年过去了，我们终于看到了总统的纳税记录。
That barely seemed to make a dent in anything.
这似乎几乎没有对任何事情造成任何影响。
Militia plotted to kidnap the governor of Michigan.
民兵密谋绑架密歇根州州长。
And then after that, the president's followers chanted, "Lock her up." The president joking, not joking, told his supporters in North Carolina to go out and try to vote twice.
此后，总统的追随者高呼“把她关起来”。总统开玩笑，不是开玩笑，告诉他在北卡罗来纳州的支持者出去尝试两次投票。
And then after that, the attorney general declared on CNN to Wolf Blitzer that voting twice might actually be legal.
此后，司法部长在 CNN 上向沃尔夫·布利策 (Wolf Blitzer) 宣称，两次投票实际上可能是合法的。
I don't know what the law in that particular state says.
我不知道那个州的法律是怎么说的。
You can't vote twice.
你不能投票两次。
William Barr Well, I don't know what the law in that particular state says.
威廉·巴尔：嗯，我不知道那个特定州的法律是怎么说的。
And when that vote becomes final--
当投票成为最终结果时——
Is there any state that says you could vote twice?
有哪个州规定你可以投票两次吗？
Well, there's some maybe that you can change your vote up to a particular time.
嗯，也许您可以将投票更改为特定时间。
I don't know what the law is, so I'm not going to offer.
我不知道法律是什么，所以我不会提供。
Attorney General William Barr looks amazingly relaxed as he says all this.
司法部长威廉·巴尔在说这一切时看上去出奇地放松。
Calm, like nothing's out of the ordinary.
很平静，好像没有什么异常。
Nothing to see here, officer.
这里没什么可看的，警官。
Watching him, it's hard not to think, is this really happening?
看着他，很难不去想，这真的发生了吗？
I got that same feeling looking at photos of the president's rallies where, even now, he's packing people in.
当我看到总统集会的照片时，我也有同样的感觉，即使是现在，他也在把人们塞进去。
Tons of people with no masks, not following CDC guidelines.
很多人没有戴口罩，不遵守疾病预防控制中心的指导方针。
He's doing this even after he, his wife, his son, his press secretary, his campaign manager, the chair of the Republican National Committee, White House housekeeping and military staff, members of the vice president's staff, Stephen Miller, Kellyanne Conway, and Hope Hicks all got coronavirus.
即使在他、他的妻子、儿子、新闻秘书、竞选经理、共和党全国委员会主席、白宫内务和军事人员、副总统幕僚斯蒂芬·米勒、凯莉安·康威和霍普·希克斯都感染了冠状病毒之后，他仍在这样做。
Even though cases are at an all-time high and on the rise.
尽管病例数量处于历史最高水平并且还在上升。
Looking at the not socially distanced crowds, it's like, is this really happening?
看着那些没有保持社交距离的人群，这就像，这真的发生了吗？
And now, coming up, this coming Tuesday, we're either going to have an election with a clear winner or, apparently, the vote will be contested.
现在，即将到来的周二，我们要么将举行一场有明显获胜者的选举，要么显然，投票将受到争议。
A contested election seems so possible because the president keeps saying over and over that he's way ahead in the polls, and those polls that we are always seeing on the news saying that he's way behind, those are fake.
一场有争议的选举似乎很有可能，因为总统一遍又一遍地说他在民意调查中遥遥领先，而我们总是在新闻中看到的那些民意调查说他远远落后，那些都是假的。
And so if he loses, he says, there's only one possible explanation.
因此，如果他输了，他说，只有一种可能的解释。
The only way we can lose, in my opinion, is massive fraud.
在我看来，我们唯一可能失败的方式就是大规模欺诈。
And that's what's happening, because all over the country, you're seeing it, thousands and thousands of ballots.
这就是正在发生的事情，因为在全国各地，你都看到了成千上万张选票。
That was Monday in Allentown.
那是阿伦敦的星期一。
Here he is in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
他现在在威斯康星州奥什科什。
Because the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.
因为我们输掉这次选举的唯一方法就是选举被操纵。
Remember that.
请记住这一点。
It's the only way we're going to lose this election.
这是我们输掉这次选举的唯一方法。
And we can't let that happen.
我们不能让这种情况发生。
There is no evidence for any massive fraud like he's talking about.
没有证据表明存在像他所说的那样的大规模欺诈行为。
When he talks about mail-in ballots being a problem-- which he does nearly everywhere-- there's no evidence for that either.
当他谈到邮寄选票是一个问题时——他几乎在所有地方都这么做——也没有证据证明这一点。
Lots more Democrats than Republicans are voting with mail-in ballots this year.
今年通过邮寄选票进行投票的民主党人比共和党人多得多。
Here's the president on Sunday in New Hampshire, calling those ballots into question.
这是周日在新罕布什尔州的总统对这些选票提出质疑。
The other way, they said millions of ballots.
另一方面，他们说有数百万张选票。
We don't know who's sending them.
我们不知道是谁派他们来的。
We don't know where they're going.
我们不知道他们要去哪里。
We don't know who's bringing them back.
我们不知道是谁把他们带回来的。
We don't know who's signed them.
我们不知道是谁签署的。
And it shouldn't be allowed.
这是不应该允许的。
And the Democrats know it's a hoax.
民主党知道这是一个骗局。
And we shouldn't let it happen.
我们不应该让它发生。
So, this Tuesday, he may fight those ballots.
因此，本周二，他可能会争夺这些选票。
And we might find ourselves in a big, no-holds-barred season finale, contested election, constitutional national meltdown, with both sides arguing over whether to count mail-in ballots and ballots that arrive after November 3.
我们可能会发现自己陷入了一场盛大的、没有任何限制的季末、竞争激烈的选举、宪法国家崩溃，双方都在争论是否计算邮寄选票和 11 月 3 日之后到达的选票。
And if that happens, people on both sides will probably take to the streets to protest, and who knows where that might lead?
如果发生这种情况，双方的民众很可能都会走上街头抗议，谁知道这会导致什么结果呢？
And then, of course, there are the scenarios where the whole thing gets thrown to Congress or the Supreme Court to decide.
当然，在某些情况下，整个事情都会交给国会或最高法院来决定。
So many different ways this could play out, where, whichever side loses, red or blue, they'll probably never be able to see the final decision as fair and legitimate.
这可能会以多种不同的方式进行，无论哪一方输了，无论是红色还是蓝色，他们可能永远无法看到最终的决定是公平和合法的。
So one half of the country will not accept who the other half puts into office.
因此，一半国家不会接受另一半国家任命的人。
Or maybe that won't happen.
或者也许这不会发生。
Maybe somebody is going to win decisively.
也许有人会取得决定性的胜利。
That's where we are.
这就是我们现在的情况。
Our world is either about to slip into utter chaos or the election will go just fine, and things will be fine.
我们的世界要么即将陷入彻底的混乱，要么选举会顺利进行，一切都会好起来的。
That's the unreality of now.
这就是现在的不现实。
There are so many things right now that make it feel like the ground underneath us is thin as a cracker with molten lava underneath.
现在有很多事情让我们感觉脚下的地面像饼干一样薄，下面还有熔岩。
So many things, it's hard to understand.
很多事情，很难理解。
This is real.
这是真的。
This is really happening.
这确实正在发生。
And today on our program, we have people trying to get their minds around that.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有人试图解决这个问题。
I have to say that is so much of the mood as we head into the Simpsons Halloween Special of an election day.
我不得不说，当我们进入选举日的《辛普森一家》万圣节特别节目时，这就是我们的心情。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Would You Like to Come Up to First Class?
第一幕，你想上头等舱吗？
So the journalist E.
所以记者E.
Jean Carroll has been in the news this week when a federal judge ruled that the president can be sued by Caroll.
本周，一名联邦法官裁定卡罗尔可以起诉总统，让·卡罗尔成为新闻焦点。
Caroll says that back in the 1990s, Donald Trump raped her in a dressing room in the department store at Bergdorf Goodman.
卡罗尔说，早在 20 世纪 90 年代，唐纳德·特朗普就在波道夫·古德曼 (Bergdorf Goodman) 百货公司的更衣室里强奸了她。
He says she's lying.
他说她在撒谎。
She's suing him for defamation.
她正在起诉他诽谤。
She's one of dozens of women who've accused the president of sexual assault and harassment.
她是数十名指控总统性侵犯和性骚扰的女性之一。
The president denies all of their allegations.
总统否认他们的所有指控。
These stories have been so widely covered and everybody is so used to them.
这些故事已经被广泛报道，每个人都已经习惯了。
But to Caroll, it felt like, at this point, they were just being ignored, which seemed kind of incredible to her.
但对卡罗尔来说，感觉就像是，在这一点上，他们只是被忽视了，这对她来说似乎有点不可思议。
Our program today is about people feeling like, is this is really happening?
我们今天的节目是让人们感觉，这真的发生了吗？
And she definitely felt that about this.
她对此确实有这样的感觉。
It killed her that these stories just somehow didn't seem to matter.
这些故事似乎并不重要，这让她很伤心。
And this summer, she decided to try to do something about it.
今年夏天，她决定尝试为此做点什么。
She had a bunch of conversations with other women who have accused the president and published them in a series of stories in The Atlantic.
她与其他指控总统的女性进行了一系列对话，并将这些对话发表在《大西洋月刊》的一系列报道中。
And her idea was, most people only have a vague sense of these stories and don't have much of a sense of what these women say actually happened.
她的想法是，大多数人对这些故事只有模糊的感觉，而对这些女性所说的实际发生的事情并没有太多了解。
And by diving into the details of these stories, she'd restore them to human size, in full color.
通过深入研究这些故事的细节，她将它们恢复成真人大小，全彩。
She's adapted one of the articles that she wrote for us.
她改编了她为我们写的一篇文章。
It's with one of the president's accusers named Jessica Leeds.
这是总统的原告之一，名叫杰西卡·利兹。
A warning about content before we start-- this is a frank conversation about sexual assault.
在我们开始之前对内容的警告——这是一次关于性侵犯的坦率对话。
Here's E.
这里是E。
Jean Caroll.
让·卡罗尔.
Let me set the scene-- midsummer twilight, and Jessica Leeds and I are letting down what's left of our hair.
让我来设定一下场景——仲夏的黄昏，杰西卡·利兹和我正在放下我们剩下的头发。
Jessica's in her elegant crib in the Blue Ridge mountains.
杰西卡在蓝岭山脉她优雅的婴儿床上。
I'm in my little shack just off the Appalachian Trail.
我在阿巴拉契亚小道附近的小棚屋里。
And we're Zooming like two old screech owls, discovering how much we had in common, which includes our love for Mr. Paul Newman, our age, and our height.
我们像两只老尖叫猫头鹰一样飞速前进，发现我们有多少共同点，其中包括我们对保罗·纽曼先生的热爱、我们的年龄和我们的身高。
How tall are you now?
你现在多高？
Jessica Leeds Well, I'm 5' 7" now.
杰西卡·利兹 好吧，我现在身高 5 英尺 7 英寸。
I was 5' 9" at the-- I've lost two inches.
我那时身高 5 英尺 9 英寸——我瘦了两英寸。
I don't know where they've gone, but I've lost them.
我不知道他们去了哪里，但我已经把他们弄丢了。
I love being tall.
我喜欢长得高。
When I was working, I was always so thankful--
当我工作的时候，我总是很感激——
Yeah, me, too.
是的，我也是。
Jessica Leeds --that I was tall.
杰西卡·利兹——我很高。
About 40 years ago, when Jessica was working as a salesperson for a company that sold newsprint to publications like the Washington Post, she sat down next to Donald Trump on an airplane.
大约 40 年前，当杰西卡在一家向《华盛顿邮报》等出版物销售新闻纸的公司担任销售人员时，她在飞机上坐在唐纳德·特朗普旁边。
Let me just say that if you have never Zoomed with a silver-haired, soigné 78-year-old woman who describes what it's like being strapped in a seat on a Braniff Airlines flight with a future president of the United States trying to fasten his lips on her like a 6' 2" suckfish-- well, in my opinion, you have not lived, let alone Zoomed, at all.
我只想说，如果你从来没有和一位银发的 78 岁老妇一起 Zoomed，她描述了被绑在布兰尼夫航空公司航班上的座位上，而一位未来的美国总统试图像一条 6 英尺 2 英寸的吸鱼一样用嘴唇吻住她——那么，在我看来，你根本就没有活过，更不用说 Zoomed 了。
But before we board that flight, a refresher.
但在我们登机之前，我们先复习一下。
Jessica was one of the first women to publicly accuse Trump of sexual assault in 2016.
杰西卡是 2016 年第一批公开指控特朗普性侵犯的女性之一。
It was on the front page of The New York Times.
它登上了《纽约时报》的头版。
I knew if the story did get any attention, that the first thing Trump would say is that I wasn't pretty enough.
我知道如果这个故事真的引起关注，特朗普第一句话会说我不够漂亮。
Right.
对。
Jessica Leeds I knew instinctively that that's what he was going to say.
杰西卡·利兹 我本能地知道这就是他要说的。
How did Jessica know?
杰西卡怎么知道的？
Because Jessica is an old bat.
因为杰西卡是一只老蝙蝠。
Old bats are the best, even better than screech owls.
老蝙蝠是最好的，甚至比尖叫猫头鹰还要好。
I'm an old bat myself.
我自己也是一只老蝙蝠了。
We old bats don't kid ourselves.
我们老蝙蝠不会自欺欺人的。
And, in fact, one day after The New York Times published the story about what happened to Jessica on that plane in 1980, Trump yammered about her accusations at a rally.
事实上，就在《纽约时报》发表 1980 年杰西卡在那架飞机上遭遇的报道一天后，特朗普在一次集会上对她的指控大发牢骚。
Oh, I was with Donald Trump in 1980.
哦，1980 年我和唐纳德·特朗普在一起。
I was sitting with him on an airplane.
我和他一起坐在飞机上。
And he went after me on the plane.
他在飞机上追我。
Yeah, I'm going to go after-- believe me, she would not be my first choice, that I can tell you.
是的，我要追求——相信我，她不会是我的第一选择，我可以告诉你。
You don't know.
你不知道。
That would not be my first choice.
那不会是我的第一选择。
I told Jessica the same thing happened to me.
我告诉杰西卡，同样的事情也发生在我身上。
I knew it was coming, too.
我也知道它即将到来。
I knew it, of course.
我当然知道。
And then he said it about me.
然后他就说了我的事。
She's not my type.
她不是我喜欢的类型。
Because they're running pictures of me when I'm 75 years old.
因为他们正在播放我 75 岁时的照片。
And it's not fair.
这不公平。
If they had run pictures of me as I looked-- you and I caught tons of shit because we're older women.
如果他们把我的照片拍成我的样子——你和我就会看到很多狗屎，因为我们都是上了年纪的女人。
For the honor of Jessica Leeds and old bats everywhere, Jessica is a beauty now, and she was a beauty 40 years ago when she got on that flight to New York.
为了杰西卡利兹和各地老蝙蝠的荣誉，杰西卡现在是个美女，40年前她登上飞往纽约的航班时也是个美女。
And as she remembers it, it was a Braniff flight.
她记得，那是布兰尼夫的航班。
Braniff was the chic airline.
布兰尼夫是一家别致的航空公司。
Her seat would have been full grain leather.
她的座位应该是全粒面皮革的。
Her flight attendant would have been clad in Halston.
她的空乘人员会穿着霍尔斯顿服装。
And her plane, it would have been painted in Perseus Green, Mercury Blue, or Sparkling Burgundy.
她的飞机会被涂成珀尔修斯绿、水星蓝或闪闪发光的酒红色。
And so what were you wearing?
那你穿什么？
Do you remember, when you got on that plane?
你还记得你什么时候登上那架飞机吗？
Yep.
是的。
I had my best suit, was a brown tweed.
我有一套最好的西装，是一件棕色花呢衣服。
Oh, I love that suit.
哦，我喜欢那套衣服。
And it was jacket and a skirt.
这是夹克和裙子。
It was a fabulous outfit.
这是一套很棒的衣服。
It really was.
确实如此。
I never wore it again after that day, though.
不过，那天之后我就再也没有穿过它了。
I hung on to it for quite a while, but I never wore it again.
我坚持了很长一段时间，但我再也没有穿过它。
I know exactly what she means.
我很清楚她的意思。
It was the same for me with the dress I had on at Bergdorf's.
我在 Bergdorf 穿的裙子也是如此。
I didn't want to throw it away because it was a beautiful Donna Karan.
我不想扔掉它，因为它是美丽的唐娜·卡兰。
I would never throw it away.
我永远不会把它扔掉。
But I couldn't put it on because bad things happened in that dress.
但我不能穿上它，因为那件衣服发生了不好的事情。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll OK, so isn't that interesting?
Jean Carroll 好吧，这不是很有趣吗？
We have so much in common.
我们有很多共同点。
So, all right.
那么，好吧。
So you were-- now tell me what happened.
所以你——现在告诉我发生了什么事。
You get on the plane.
你上飞机。
I get on the plane, and I was sitting in the back.
我上了飞机，我坐在后排。
And I remember watching the stewardess come walking down the aisle.
我记得看着空姐走过过道。
And she saw me, and she said, would you like to come up to first class?
她看到了我，她说，你想上头等舱吗？
We have space.
我们有空间。
Never occurred to me not to say yes.
我从来没有想过不答应。
And I gathered my purse, and I went up to first class.
我拿起钱包，上了头等舱。
That had happened before.
这种事以前也发生过。
Yeah, I kind of accepted the fact that it was entertainment for the big honchos up in first class.
是的，我有点接受这样一个事实：这是头等舱大佬们的娱乐。
Now I don't understand if people understand what we're talking about, but that's what they did.
现在我不知道人们是否明白我们在说什么，但他们就是这么做的。
They chose the best looking, best dressed people, and put them up in first.
他们选择了长相最好、穿着最好的人，然后把他们放在第一位。
That's right.
没错。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll What we're talking about is how things used to be-- buying a ticket, putting on our best clothes, hopping on a cocktail party, heading for New York or Chicago or Miami or any jazzy city, USA.
让·卡罗尔 我们谈论的是过去的情况——买一张票，穿上最好的衣服，参加鸡尾酒会，前往纽约、芝加哥、迈阿密或美国任何爵士城市。
And this party lacked zip unless somebody very rich or very pretty was present.
除非有非常富有或非常漂亮的人在场，否则这个聚会就缺乏活力。
Men in first class would size up the female passengers before boarding and hold a brief conference with the check-in crew.
头等舱的男士会在登机前打量女乘客，并与值机人员举行简短的会议。
Or, alternatively, a helpful flight attendant would simply stand in the aisle, waving people away and rearranging the seating chart so that an extremely tall chap, for instance, with black hair like greased felt could have the spot by me, which is what I told Jessica had happened on a jumbo jet to LA.
或者，一位乐于助人的空乘人员会简单地站在过道上，挥手示意人们走开，并重新安排座位表，以便一个非常高的家伙，例如，黑发像油毡一样的人可以在我身边占据一个位置，这就是我告诉杰西卡在飞往洛杉矶的大型喷气式飞机上发生的事情。
After the plane took off, following the meal, the chap shows me a photo of his private plane.
飞机起飞后，吃完饭后，那家伙向我展示了一张他的私人飞机的照片。
Then he shows me a photo of his Rolls Royce.
然后他给我看了一张他的劳斯莱斯的照片。
Then he shows me his erection.
然后他向我展示了他的勃起。
It would never have occurred to me to call anybody and say anything!
我从来没有想过给任何人打电话并说什么！
We grew up expecting men to make a pass at-- I was not surprised.
我们从小就期待男人调情——我并不感到惊讶。
I expected it from men.
我期望男人能做到这一点。
Jessica, you and I were born during the Second World War.
杰西卡，你和我出生在第二次世界大战期间。
We did not report.
我们没有报告。
We expected it, and we laughed.
我们预料到了，我们笑了。
But we were wrong.
但我们错了。
We were wrong.
我们错了。
We should have spoken up, like they're doing now.
我们应该大声说出来，就像他们现在所做的那样。
Well, we were so thankful, though, to have--
好吧，不过我们还是很感激——
Yep.
是的。
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll Oh my lord.
吉恩·卡罗尔 哦，我的主啊。
The flight attendant escorts Jessica to the front of the plane.
空姐护送杰西卡到飞机前部。
She sits down in the aisle seat beside Donald Trump.
她坐在唐纳德·特朗普旁边靠过道的座位上。
As I recall, he introduced himself.
我记得他做了自我介绍。
The name meant nothing to me.
这个名字对我来说毫无意义。
It wouldn't have.
本来就不会有。
This was 1979, 1980.
这是1979年、1980年。
Jessica wasn't a native New Yorker.
杰西卡不是土生土长的纽约人。
And she was not yet aware of all the levels, the ranks, the spheres of New York society that Trump, a young rat out of Queens, was chewing his way through.
她还不知道特朗普这个来自皇后区的小老鼠正在蚕食纽约社会的各个层面、阶层和领域。
He was very good looking in 1980, do you agree?
1980年的时候他就很帅，你同意吗？
Well-- E.
嗯——E.
Jean Carroll I found him very attractive in 1996.
Jean Carroll 1996 年我发现他非常有吸引力。
He was very pretty.
他非常漂亮。
Yeah, I guess.
是的，我想。
I-- E.
我——E。
Jean Carroll He was not ugly.
让·卡罗尔 他并不丑。
I can remember-- I don't remember my reaction.
我记得——我不记得我的反应。
He was perfectly reasonable when I first sat down.
当我第一次坐下来时，他非常通情达理。
I mean, he was blonde, tall, good-sized man, that sort of stuff.
我是说，他是金发女郎，身材高大，身材魁梧，诸如此类。
But I don't remember being overwhelmed by his looks or--
但我不记得被他的外表迷住了或者——
What did we talk about?
我们聊了什么？
We talked about him.
我们谈到了他。
I remember we took off, and they served this wonderful meal.
我记得我们起飞了，他们提供了一顿美味的饭菜。
And then they came, and they picked up everything.
然后他们来了，他们捡起了所有东西。
And within a short amount of time, all of a sudden, he's on me like a wet blanket.
在很短的时间内，突然之间，他就像一条湿毯子一样压在我身上。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll She glances away from the screen with a revolted wince.
让·卡罗尔（Jean Carroll） 她把目光从屏幕上移开，厌恶地皱起眉头。
It was such a shock.
真是太震惊了。
It was like, all of a sudden, he's on me.
就好像，突然之间，他就在我身上了。
Jessica is ladylike.
杰西卡很有淑女气质。
Therefore, allow me-- for I have experience with Trump-- to say in plain English what I believe Trump is about to do.
因此，请允许我——因为我有与特朗普打交道的经验——用简单的英语说出我认为特朗普将要做的事情。
I believe he will go straight for the crotch, just like he brags on the Access Hollywood tape.
我相信他会直奔胯部，就像他在《Access Hollywood》磁带上吹嘘的那样。
This man who today claims that he has never kissed or groped a woman without consent.
这个男人今天声称他从未在未经同意的情况下亲吻或抚摸女性。
It's like he's got four extra hands, because he's grabbing my breasts, he's trying to kiss me.
就好像他多了四只手，因为他抓住我的胸部，他想吻我。
I'm trying to get his hands off of me.
我正试图把他的手从我身上拿开。
And this kind of struggle went on for a little while.
而这样的斗争持续了一段时间。
And then, it's when he started to put his hand up my skirt that I got a jolt of strength and managed to wiggle myself out of the seat.
然后，当他开始把手伸进我的裙子时，我突然感到一股力量，设法把自己从座位上挣脱出来。
Jessica grabs her purse and storms to the back of the plane.
杰西卡抓起钱包，冲向飞机后部。
Now wait-- so did he make it all the way to your panties or not?
现在等等——那么他有没有一直到你的内裤上？
No. No. E.
不，不，E。
Jean Carroll Because you had, by that time, started to stand up, right?
Jean Carroll 因为那时你已经开始站起来了，对吧？
Right.
对。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll Was there anybody else?
吉恩·卡罗尔 还有其他人吗？
Yeah, there was the guy across the aisle whose eyes were about the size of a saucer.
是的，过道对面有一个人，他的眼睛有茶碟那么大。
And I kept thinking--
我一直在想——
Ah!
啊！
Jessica Leeds --why don't you say something?
杰西卡·利兹——你为什么不说点什么？
Or where is the stewardess on this whole thing?
或者整个事件中的空姐在哪里？
Why doesn't somebody come and rescue me?
为什么没有人来救我？
And that's when I realized, there was only me that was going to rescue me.
就在那时我意识到，只有我能拯救我。
So that's when I--
所以就在那时我——
Well, I'm glad you thought of-- see, some women freeze in this situation.
好吧，我很高兴你想到——看，有些女人在这种情况下僵住了。
Yes.
是的。
Yes, I know.
是的，我知道。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll You didn't freeze.
吉恩·卡罗尔：你没有冻结。
No. No. But I certainly didn't say anything.
不，不，但我当然什么也没说。
I didn't say anything either!
我也没说什么啊！
I didn't scream!
我没有尖叫！
I didn't do shit.
我没有做坏事。
I laughed.
我笑了。
Did you laugh?
你笑了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
No, I don't recall laughing.
不，我不记得笑过。
No. I took it seriously.
不，我是认真对待的。
I mean, this was a real physical attack.
我的意思是，这是真正的物理攻击。
And--
还有——
Yeah.
是的。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll Although we talk about Trump groping women, most people don't understand how brazen Trump really is because no one knows what groping means.
让·卡罗尔 虽然我们谈论特朗普猥亵女性，但大多数人不明白特朗普到底有多厚颜无耻，因为没有人知道猥亵意味着什么。
It's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to the Trump accusers.
这是我想与特朗普指控者交谈的原因之一。
Who knows what the heck Trump is actually doing or on what part of the female body he is doing it?
谁知道特朗普到底在做什么，或者他在女性身体的哪个部位做这件事？
One of Trump's accusers described for me Trump putting his hand up her skirt and onto her vulva.
特朗普的一名原告向我描述了特朗普将手伸进她的裙子并放在她的外阴上的情况。
And she used the plain English.
她用的是简单的英语。
"It was like a squish," she said.
“这就像挤压一样，”她说。
"A squeeze." And she made a motion with her hand like squeezing a rubber duck.
“挤压一下。”她用手做了一个动作，就像捏橡皮鸭一样。
That is groping.
那就是摸索。
So why does Trump do it?
那么特朗普为何要这么做呢？
Jessica and I ponder.
杰西卡和我思考着。
Let's try to figure this out.
让我们试着弄清楚这一点。
The main question is, he knows he's not going to be able to have intercourse with you on the plane.
主要问题是，他知道他无法在飞机上与你发生性关系。
He knows this.
他知道这一点。
Why does he do this?
他为什么要这么做？
What did he think he was going to gain?
他认为他会得到什么？
Was it sexual?
是性的吗？
Were you turning him on to such an extent that he couldn't stand it?
你是否让他兴奋到让他无法忍受的程度？
What was it?
那是什么？
Well, personally, I can't-- I thought he was bored.
嗯，就我个人而言，我不能——我以为他很无聊。
Oh.
哦。
Jessica Leeds Nothing happening, so let's grab a little pussy here, you know.
杰西卡·利兹 没什么事发生，所以让我们在这里抓住一点小猫，你知道。
This is such an insight to me!
这对我来说真是一个洞察力！
This is such an insight.
这是这样的见解。
Got it.
明白了。
But it goes along with his Hollywood tape.
但这与他的好莱坞磁带是一致的。
No, no. E.
不，不。 E.
Jean Carroll Was he reading at all beforehand?
吉恩·卡罗尔 他事先读过书吗？
No. E.
没有。E。
Jean Carroll Didn't he have a book?
吉恩·卡罗尔 他没有书吗？
Nope.
不。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll Who'd get on a plane in 1980 without a ton of magazines, newspapers, or The Wall Street Journal?
Jean Carroll 在 1980 年，谁会在没有大量杂志、报纸或《华尔街日报》的情况下登上飞机呢？
Exactly.
正是如此。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll And he had nothing to read?
让·卡罗尔 他没有什么可读的吗？
Nope.
不。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll You said he was bored.
吉恩·卡罗尔 你说他很无聊。
That is an insight that I think-- it really sends it home.
我认为这是一种洞察力——它确实让我们明白了这一点。
Because some people have claimed he does it for power.
因为有些人声称他这样做是为了权力。
I don't think it has anything to do with power.
我不认为这和权力有什么关系。
Well, it could be.
嗯，可能是这样。
But I really kind of just chalked it off to him being bored.
但我真的只是把这归因于他感到无聊。
So Trump grabs one woman.
所以特朗普抓住了一名女性。
Then he grabs the next woman and the next woman.
然后他抓住了下一个女人和下一个女人。
And pretty soon, we start thinking Trump grabbing women is normal.
很快，我们开始认为特朗普抢女人是正常的。
Then Trump grabbing women becomes so normal, it's boring.
然后特朗普抢女人就变得很正常，很无聊。
It is old news, and there's so much that he's done.
这已经是旧闻了，而且他已经做了很多事情。
But Jessica, it's not old news.
但是杰西卡，这并不是什么旧闻。
We're the most current thing.
我们是最新的。
We tried to warn people.
我们试图警告人们。
We tried to warn America this is who he was.
我们试图警告美国，他就是这样的人。
And so now we seem to have been forgotten.
所以现在我们似乎已经被遗忘了。
We've been pushed-- well, we've been ignored.
我们被推动——好吧，我们被忽视了。
And this drives me crazy.
这让我发疯。
This is why we're doing this.
这就是我们这样做的原因。
We're doing it between now and the election.
从现在到选举期间我们都会这样做。
That is our duty to once again tell America what this man is like.
我们有责任再次告诉美国这个人是什么样的。
Well, some people may have forgotten us, but you know who has not forgotten us?
好吧，有些人可能已经忘记了我们，但你知道谁没有忘记我们吗？
The men who are voting for Trump because he grabbed us, because he is macho, because Trump proved he can paw any woman he wants.
那些投票给特朗普的男人是因为他抓住了我们，因为他很有男子气概，因为特朗普证明了他可以勾引任何他想要的女人。
And you know who else has not forgotten?
你知道还有谁没有忘记吗？
Women like Jessica and I.
像杰西卡和我这样的女人。
We'll never forget.
我们永远不会忘记。
How often did you think about this between then and 2015, when he came to the fore again, you know?
从那时到 2015 年，当他再次脱颖而出时，你有多少次思考过这个问题，你知道吗？
I probably would not have had it so emblazoned in my mind if it hadn't been for the gala at Saks Fifth Avenue.
如果不是萨克斯第五大道的盛典，我可能不会如此铭记它。
The gala at Saks Fifth Avenue.
盛典在萨克斯第五大道举行。
This is a year or two after the flight, and it's a benefit for the Humane Society of New York and a few other charities.
这是飞行一两年后的事，这是纽约人道协会和其他一些慈善机构的一项福利。
Jessica is the assistant to the president of the Humane Society and is handing out table assignments.
杰西卡是人道协会主席的助理，负责分配餐桌。
I had this fabulous dress.
我有这件漂亮的衣服。
E.
E.
Jean Carroll Oh, what was it?
吉恩·卡罗尔 哦，那是什么？
Let me hear.
让我听听。
Mary McFadden-- E.
玛丽·麦克法登——E.
Jean Carroll Oh, I love Mary McFadden.
琼·卡罗尔哦，我爱玛丽·麦克法登。
--pleated, all these little pleats in a taxicab yellow.
——褶皱，所有这些小褶皱都是出租车黄色的。
And I show up at Saks, and I've got this great dress on.
我出现在萨克斯百货公司，我穿上了这件很棒的衣服。
And I'm doing my thing.
我正在做我的事情。
And I'm meeting Geoffrey Beene.
我要去见杰弗里·比恩。
I'm meeting Bill Blass.
我要去见比尔·布拉斯。
I'm meeting all of these designers for this party.
我要在这个聚会上见到所有这些设计师。
And in fact, Mary McFadden came up and looked at me and said, that's my dress.
事实上，玛丽·麦克法登走过来看着我说，那是我的衣服。
And I said, yes, it is.
我说，是的，是的。
So it was really a fabulous evening.
所以这真是一个美妙的夜晚。
And then Trump with his wife, Ivana, came up.
然后特朗普和他的妻子伊万娜出现了。
She was pregnant, very pregnant.
她怀孕了，非常怀孕。
And he looked at me when I handed him his table assignment.
当我把他的餐桌分配给他时，他看着我。
And I'm looking at him, thinking, you're the asshole from the airplane.
我看着他，心想，你就是飞机上的混蛋。
I remember you.
我记得你。
The future president of the United States remembers Jessica, too.
未来的美国总统也记得杰西卡。
And he looked at me, and he said, "I remember you.
他看着我，说道：“我记得你。
You're the cunt from the airplane."
你就是飞机上的那个混蛋。”
E.
E.
Jean Carroll, she's a journalist and the author of the memoir, What Do We Need Men For, her series of conversations with women who accuse Donald Trump of sexual assault.
珍·卡罗尔（Jean Carroll）是一名记者，也是回忆录《我们需要男人做什么》的作者，该书记录了她与指控唐纳德·特朗普性侵犯的女性的一系列对话。
It's available at theatlantic.com.
可在 theatlantic.com 上获取。
Coming up, seeing people fight over corn dogs in a grocery store leads one woman to do something that she has avoided for years.
接下来，看到人们在杂货店里为玉米热狗而打架，一名妇女做出了她多年来一直避免做的事情。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, The Unreality of Now.
今天的节目，现在的不现实。
As we approach this historic and momentous election day, we have stories of people trying to get their heads around and adapt to this strange time we are living through.
当我们临近这个历史性的、重要的选举日时，我们听到了人们试图清醒过来并适应我们正在经历的这个奇怪时刻的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, The Gun Reality of Now.
第二幕，现在的枪支现实。
One sign of how shaken up people are in our country right now-- gun sales.
枪支销售是我们国家现在人们多么震惊的一个迹象。
They're going nuts.
他们快要疯了。
A record year, according to the FBI.
据联邦调查局称，这是创纪录的一年。
The FBI is doing twice the number of background checks they did last year.
联邦调查局的背景调查数量是去年的两倍。
A survey of gun store owners by an industry trade group estimates that something like 40% of their sales are to first-time gun buyers-- 40% to people who've never owned a gun.
一个行业贸易组织对枪支商店老板进行的一项调查估计，他们的销售额中约有 40% 是针对首次购买枪支的人，其中 40% 是针对从未拥有枪支的人。
Lilly Sullivan talked to some of them, and it was like a tour of different fears that people have about this country right now.
莉莉·沙利文与其中一些人进行了交谈，这就像人们现在对这个国家不同的恐惧的游览。
The thing I wanted to know was, why now?
我想知道的是，为什么是现在？
What's the thing that made you want a gun?
是什么让你想要一把枪？
Brian told me he was around guns some when he was growing up.
布莱恩告诉我，他在成长过程中曾接触过枪支。
He'd sometimes do target practice or go shooting.
他有时会练习打靶或射击。
When he was 16, he was hunting with his family, and he killed a deer.
16岁时，他和家人一起打猎，杀死了一头鹿。
It made him really sad.
这让他真的很难过。
So he never bought a gun.
所以他从来没有买过枪。
Now he's 52 and lives in Steamboat Springs, Colorado.
现在他 52 岁，住在科罗拉多州斯廷博特斯普林斯。
It's in the mountains, kind of a ski town in the winter.
它在山里，冬天就像一个滑雪小镇。
He just bought a gun the day I talked to him, a Glock 9 millimeter.
我和他谈话的那天他刚买了一把枪，一把格洛克 9 毫米手枪。
The thing that made him want one?
是什么让他想要一个？
The first presidential debate, the one where there was so much yelling.
第一次总统辩论，那场辩论充满了叫喊。
After watching that debate, I laughed out loud multiple times, but at the same time, I was horrified.
看完那场辩论，我多次笑出声来，但同时，我也感到震惊。
Oh, I think it was just the non-civility.
哦，我想这只是不礼貌的表现。
It wasn't civil.
这不是民事。
I mean, Biden was trying to be civil.
我的意思是，拜登试图保持文明。
But the leader of our country was not trying to be civil.
但我们国家的领导人并没有试图保持文明。
I mean, whoever thought our country would come to this to where it almost seems like it-- I mean, I don't know if it's leading towards a civil war, but it's not-- it doesn't seem civil.
我的意思是，无论谁认为我们的国家会走到这一步——我的意思是，我不知道这是否会导致内战，但事实并非如此——这看起来并不文明。
Everybody on my side, we're mad.
每个人都站在我这边，我们都很生气。
Everybody on that side, they're mad.
那边的每个人都生气了。
I mean, it's-- I don't know after the election if-- if the Republicans are going to take this very well if they lose.
我的意思是，我不知道大选后，如果共和党输了，他们是否会很好地接受这一点。
Trump's already saying that-- he hasn't said he's going to accept any kind of-- I mean, it's going to be challenged.
特朗普已经说过了——他没有说过他会接受任何形式的——我的意思是，这将会受到挑战。
And then you get-- I think there's going to be-- I mean, there's going to be people protesting.
然后你会得到——我认为将会——我的意思是，将会有人抗议。
Yeah, the results.
是的，结果。
And I mean, it's just-- and you know what?
我的意思是，这只是——你知道吗？
And those people that are going to be protesting the results-- I mean, I hope they don't become violent.
那些将抗议结果的人——我的意思是，我希望他们不要变得暴力。
But they're all Second Amendment, gun-toting Americans, you know?
但他们都是拥枪的第二修正案美国人，你知道吗？
And I don't know.
我不知道。
And I think I'm fine in my small little town that I live in.
我认为我在我居住的小镇上过得很好。
But I mean, you just never know.
但我的意思是，你永远不知道。
I actually went and looked at guns at one gun shop on the Thursday after the debate.
事实上，辩论结束后的星期四，我去了一家枪店看了枪。
And they were out.
他们出去了。
They were out of guns.
他们没有枪了。
They were out of ammo.
他们没有弹药了。
I get online, and I looked at stores in Denver and stuff like that even.
我上网，甚至查看了丹佛的商店之类的东西。
Sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out.
卖完了，卖完了，卖完了，卖完了，卖完了，卖完了。
Unbelievable.
难以置信。
And so then I found another place.
然后我就找到了另一个地方。
It's like an hour from home.
离家大约一个小时。
And they had guns.
他们有枪。
It's a weird thing because I feel like I go to the gun counter.
这很奇怪，因为我感觉自己好像去了枪支柜台。
And first off, there's the whole mask, non-masked libtard thing.
首先，有整个面具，非面具 libtard 的东西。
So yeah, it felt weird, because you're talking to a bunch of gun-toting Republicans trying to buy a gun off of them.
所以，是的，这感觉很奇怪，因为你正在和一群持枪的共和党人交谈，试图从他们那里买枪。
So then I'm there in cut-off sweatpants and a hoodie, wearing a mask.
然后我就穿着剪裁运动裤和连帽衫，戴着口罩。
And so, yeah, it's a little bit--
所以，是的，有一点——
You said "libtard?" Brian Oh, I've heard that so much.
你说“libtard”？布莱恩哦，我听过很多次了。
And I went into my local gun shop, where masks should be required, according to the ordinances.
我走进当地的枪店，根据条例，那里需要戴口罩。
And I was in there talking to the kid.
我在那里和那个孩子说话。
He had a pistol on his side.
他身边有一把手枪。
It looked like he was definitely not voting for the same person I'm voting for.
看起来他绝对不会投票给我投票的同一个人。
And he did not have a mask on.
而且他没有戴口罩。
And his dad who owned the shop did not have a mask on.
而他开店的父亲也没有戴口罩。
Then the kid's-- after I'm in there for a couple minutes, he's like, you don't have to wear your mask.
然后那个孩子——我在那里待了几分钟后，他说，你不必戴口罩。
And I'm like, uh, yeah, I'll go ahead and just keep my mask on if you don't mind.
我想，呃，是的，如果你不介意的话，我会继续戴上面具。
And he kind of paused, and he got choked up on, like, he was going to say some stuff.
他停了下来，他哽咽了，好像他要说一些事情。
And I was finally like, no, we don't need to discuss it.
我最后想，不，我们不需要讨论它。
I just have some questions about these guns.
我只是对这些枪有一些疑问。
And he kind of wasn't as nice to me after that.
后来他对我就没那么好了。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
You think you maybe irritated him a little or something.
你认为你可能有点激怒了他什么的。
Yeah, like, because I was a libtard in his store looking at guns.
是的，就像，因为我是一个在他的店里看枪的酒鬼。
So I guess now I'm a gun-toting libtard.
所以我想我现在是一个持枪的自由主义者了。
For DeJonae, the moment she decided to buy a gun happened in March.
对于德乔尼来说，她决定买枪的那一刻发生在三月份。
She's a nurse in San Bernardino County, outside of LA.
她是洛杉矶郊外圣贝纳迪诺县的一名护士。
DeJonae has an aunt who wanted her to get a gun for years.
德乔尼的一位阿姨多年来一直希望她能拥有一把枪。
Her aunt owns a gun store.
她的姨妈拥有一家枪店。
It's actually the only Black-owned gun store on the West Coast, where she trains women to shoot.
这实际上是西海岸唯一一家黑人拥有的枪支商店，她在那里训练女性射击。
DeJonae is pretty, her aunt told me.
德乔娜很漂亮，她阿姨告诉我。
She worries about her niece dating and living alone.
她担心侄女约会和独自生活。
DeJonae had even had a stalker once.
德乔尼甚至曾经遇到过跟踪者。
But the thing that flipped DeJonae wasn't the stalker.
但让德乔尼震惊的并不是跟踪者。
She was in the grocery store after work one day.
有一天，她下班后在杂货店。
The pandemic had just arrived.
疫情刚刚到来。
I've never seen the grocery store look the way that it looked-- lines wrapped around the building, people beating people up for their groceries or for their baskets because there were none.
我从来没有见过杂货店的样子——建筑物周围排起了长队，人们因为没有杂货或篮子而殴打人们。
Everywhere.
到处。
And it was just like complete pandemonium.
一切就像一片混乱。
Did you say beating people up?
你说打人吗？
Like, fighting?
比如打架？
Yeah, people were getting into fights-- physical fights.
是的，人们开始打架——肢体冲突。
So wait, what were people fighting about?
等等，人们在争论什么？
The last sanitizer.
最后的消毒液。
I mean, but there's not-- it wasn't just one.
我的意思是，但不存在——不仅仅是一个。
There were a couple of them.
其中有几个人。
People were fighting over the last pack of tissue, literally the last pack of frozen corn dogs.
人们正在争夺最后一包纸巾，实际上是最后一包冷冻玉米热狗。
Everyone was buying everything that they could put their hands on.
每个人都在购买一切他们能拿到的东西。
And I just remember looking at all these people, and it just made me scared.
我只记得看着所有这些人，这让我感到害怕。
I said, wow, I'm scared.
我说，哇，我害怕。
So I called my aunt, and I said, hey, I need to buy a gun.
所以我打电话给我的阿姨，我说，嘿，我需要买一把枪。
And she started laughing.
她开始大笑。
And I said, what do you have?
我说，你有什么？
And then I sent her the money right there.
然后我就直接把钱寄给了她。
And--
还有——
Like, online?
比如，在线？
Dejonae Yeah, I Zelled it to her.
Dejonae 是的，我告诉她了。
I Zelled her the money.
我给了她钱。
And I'm like, I already paid for it.
我想，我已经付钱了。
This is mine.
这是我的。
Put it aside.
把它放在一边。
A lot of first-time gun owners I talked to explain their reason this way.
我采访过的很多第一次拥有枪支的人都这样解释他们的原因。
They had started to feel something weird in the air, a kind of amorphous anxiety.
他们开始感觉到空气中弥漫着某种奇怪的东西，一种无形的焦虑。
Shane is 49.
谢恩今年 49 岁。
He has a house in the hills in Northern California.
他在北加州的山上有一所房子。
So in addition to all the coronavirus strangeness, they've also had wildfires and rolling blackouts.
因此，除了所有冠状病毒的奇怪现象之外，他们还发生了野火和轮流停电。
One day, a few months ago, the power went out.
几个月前的一天，停电了。
And it didn't come back for 14 days, which meant no internet.
而且已经14天没有回来了，这意味着无法上网。
And then the cell towers stopped working.
然后手机信号塔就停止工作了。
So things started getting weird.
所以事情开始变得奇怪。
That's the best way that we can put it, is things started getting weird.
这是我们能说的最好的方式，就是事情开始变得奇怪。
People would drive right up to the grocery store.
人们会直接开车去杂货店。
Not park, just literally drive right up and nose first, right in front of the doors for the grocery store, and get out and just leave their car there.
不是停车，只是直接开车，鼻子先到，就在杂货店的门前，然后下车，把车停在那里。
Yeah.
是的。
So there was, like, fraying.
所以就出现了磨损。
There was just a feeling.
只是有一种感觉。
There was just a feeling in the air that was not a good feeling.
只是空气中弥漫着一种不太好的感觉。
You could pick up that things were getting kind of weird and were going to get weirder if the power didn't come on soon.
你可能会发现事情变得有点奇怪，如果不尽快通电的话事情会变得更奇怪。
I asked Shane and everyone else, when you think about needing a gun, what do you picture?
我问肖恩和其他人，当你想到需要一把枪时，你会想到什么？
Is there a scene that plays in your mind?
你的脑海里是否浮现出一个场景？
Nearly everyone said it's night.
几乎每个人都说现在是晚上。
They're sleeping, and someone dangerous shows up.
他们正在睡觉，一个危险的人出现了。
Shane's version is people wandering to his house in a disaster, finding it in the woods through the smoke, and trying to take his family's supplies, their food, their generator, the things they need to survive.
肖恩的版本是，人们在一场灾难中徘徊到他的房子，在烟雾中在树林里找到了它，并试图拿走他家人的物资，他们的食物，他们的发电机，以及他们生存所需的东西。
There's something pre-apocalyptic about it.
这有一些前世界末日的感觉。
He's on his own, protecting his home from marauders.
他独自一人，保护自己的家园免受掠夺者的侵害。
This is stuff he doesn't think will happen.
这是他认为不会发生的事情。
But at the same time, for months, they've been surrounded by fires, smoke so thick that it can look like dusk in the middle of the day.
但与此同时，几个月来，他们一直被大火包围，烟雾浓烈，看起来就像中午的黄昏。
So somehow, it does seem possible to him.
所以不知何故，对他来说这确实是可能的。
All kinds of things do.
各种各样的事情都会发生。
I wonder if there are people who-- in our community, who resent us because we're successful or for whatever reason, because we're Jews or because we're gay and-- you know.
我想知道在我们的社区中是否有人怨恨我们，因为我们是成功的，或者出于某种原因，因为我们是犹太人，或者因为我们是同性恋，而且——你知道。
We do have a growing neo-Nazi threat in this country.
我们国家确实面临着日益增长的新纳粹威胁。
It's our biggest internal security danger, is the growth of neo-Nazis.
新纳粹分子的增长是我们最大的内部安全威胁。
And those people know how to use firearms.
这些人知道如何使用枪支。
So but my feeling is, if you're on the left or even a moderate, you should be doing the same thing to protect yourself.
所以，但我的感觉是，如果你是左翼甚至温和派，你应该做同样的事情来保护自己。
My husband's been a little out of control with the ammunition.
我丈夫对弹药有点失去控制。
He's purchased, like, 1,600 rounds.
他购买了大约 1,600 发子弹。
And I said, Glenn, after a gun battle involving 1,600 rounds, your gun, A, would melt because the barrel would get so hot, you'd have to stop firing after a certain point.
我说，格伦，在一场涉及 1,600 发子弹的枪战之后，你的枪 A 会熔化，因为枪管会变得很热，你必须在某个点后停止射击。
And I said our house would probably collapse.
我说我们的房子可能会倒塌。
It'd look like Swiss cheese.
它看起来像瑞士奶酪。
The walls would collapse inward on themselves.
墙壁会自行向内倒塌。
But he's like, it's just hard to find ammunition for this gun.
但他觉得，这把枪很难找到弹药。
And I'm like, I'm fine with about 75 rounds.
我想，大约 75 轮我就可以了。
I don't feel like I need 1,600 rounds of ammunition.
我觉得我不需要1600发弹药。
And I actually asked him to please stop buying ammunition, but--
我实际上要求他停止购买弹药，但是——
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
Shane --he did really stock up.
肖恩——他确实囤货了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
OK, I'm trying to picture 1,600 rounds.
好的，我正在尝试想象 1,600 发子弹的情况。
Is that, like, a shoe box full of bullets?
那是不是一个装满子弹的鞋盒？
We actually did buy some Gucci flats.
我们确实买了一些 Gucci 平底鞋。
And that box was filled up with bullets.
而那个盒子里装满了子弹。
It's kind of an incongruous look, the Gucci shoe box with the 22 bullets.
装着 22 颗子弹的 Gucci 鞋盒看起来有点不协调。
That's a gay male way of doing it.
这是男同性恋的做法。
Nancy bought her pistol around Mother's Day.
南希在母亲节前后买了一把手枪。
She send me a photo of herself on Mother's Day, dressed in a Lilly Pulitzer blouse and pale blue cardigan, holding a Smith and Wesson 380 EZ.
她在母亲节给我发了一张她自己的照片，她穿着莉莉·普利策 (Lilly Pulitzer) 衬衫和淡蓝色羊毛衫，手里拿着一台 Smith and Wesson 380 EZ。
She's 53.
她53岁了。
She owns a small business making luggage tags.
她拥有一家生产行李标签的小企业。
She's also worked as a nurse a lot in hospice.
她还经常在临终关怀医院担任护士。
She lives with her family just outside of Appleton, Wisconsin.
她和家人住在威斯康星州阿普尔顿郊外。
She described her town to me as your typical, don't-have-to-lock-your-door suburb.
她向我描述她的小镇是典型的、不用锁门的郊区。
Before this year, she'd never even held a gun.
今年之前，她甚至从未拿过枪。
It was actually kind of hard for her to explain why it felt so urgent.
她实际上很难解释为什么感觉如此紧急。
It's kind of like a nameless, faceless feeling that I have, almost like the earthquake that the world had where everything shifted.
这有点像我有一种无名、无名的感觉，几乎就像世界发生的地震，一切都发生了变化。
And the normal that we knew is no longer there.
我们所知道的常态已经不复存在。
It's like the axis.
就像轴一样。
The world fell off its axis.
世界脱离了它的轴心。
Since the pandemic, she says, her world has suddenly shrunken to just her family and her home.
她说，自从大流行以来，她的世界突然缩小到只有她的家人和家。
That was all you had.
这就是你所拥有的一切。
And so if someone was going to come into your house and take that away, as everything else had been taken away, that was not OK.
因此，如果有人要进入你的房子并将其拿走，因为其他所有东西都已被拿走，那就不行了。
Nancy lives two hours north of Kenosha, Wisconsin, where there were big protests after the shooting of Jacob Blake by police officers.
南希住在威斯康星州基诺沙以北两小时车程的地方，雅各布·布莱克被警察枪杀后，那里发生了大规模抗议活动。
Some demonstrators set cars and buildings on fire.
一些示威者放火焚烧汽车和建筑物。
The National Guard was called in.
国民警卫队被召来。
A teenager, a Trump supporter who came to the protests in support of Blue Lives Matter, shot three people, killing two of them.
一名参加抗议活动支持“蓝色生命也是命”的特朗普支持者青少年开枪射杀三人，其中两人死亡。
There have been protests in Appleton near where Nancy lives.
南希居住地附近的阿普尔顿发生了抗议活动。
It's this small town.
就是这个小镇。
Nothing happens.
什么也没发生。
Nothing goes on.
什么都没有发生。
We don't have any murderers, but we had rioters here in Appleton.
我们没有凶手，但阿普尔顿有暴徒。
So we've got kind of a small town taste of people being upset and being-- the tension.
所以我们有一种小镇的味道，人们感到不安和紧张。
The police in Appleton don't use the word "riot" to describe what happened there.
阿普尔顿的警察不会使用“骚乱”这个词来描述那里发生的事情。
One man was assaulted, but there were no fires, no vandalism.
一名男子遭到袭击，但没有发生火灾，也没有发生破坏行为。
And when Nancy and I talked about it more, she agreed that riot wasn't the right word.
当南希和我进一步讨论这个问题时，她同意“骚乱”这个词不合适。
Nancy already owned her gun by the time this happened, but a lot of gun store owners have said that customers point to the protests as one of the reasons they felt so worried.
事情发生时，南希已经拥有了她的枪，但许多枪支店老板表示，顾客认为抗议活动是他们感到如此担心的原因之一。
I don't want to sound like a privileged white woman, that I'm living in this la-la land, which is really mostly white people here.
我不想听起来像一个享有特权的白人女性，因为我生活在这片啦啦土地上，这里实际上主要是白人。
I mean, this is almost Utah white.
我的意思是，这几乎是犹他州的白色。
It's white, white here.
这里是白色的，白色的。
But there has been more racial tension and more people coming in.
但种族紧张局势更加紧张，进来的人也越来越多。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
I think it's the underlying fear.
我认为这是潜在的恐惧。
And I don't know who I'm afraid of.
而且我也不知道我害怕谁。
That's also kind of upsetting, too, is, I don't really know who am I afraid of.
这也有点令人不安，我真的不知道我在害怕谁。
Who am I worried about?
我担心谁？
Tell me more about that.
告诉我更多相关信息。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Is there somebody that's going to be coming for revenge because I'm Caucasian?
是否有人会因为我是白人而来报仇？
Is there somebody that's coming for my property?
有人要抢我的财产吗？
Is there someone coming just because they feel like it?
有人只是因为喜欢才来吗？
So when you're thinking about just the unrest, are you picturing Black people?
所以当你想到骚乱时，你想到的是黑人吗？
Because I also know that in Kenosha, it was a white teenager who killed two people.
因为我也知道，在基诺沙，是一名白人少年杀了两人。
So I'm just kind of curious.
所以我只是有点好奇。
Is it Black people?
是黑人吗？
Is it white people?
是白人吗？
Honestly, if I had to say what I was worried about is-- and this is going to sound truly awful, but I don't think it's so much a matter of a color of a skin, but more of a socioeconomic level of someone that's so desperate that-- things are so bad and people losing their job and people are unable to make their rent.
老实说，如果我不得不说我担心的是——这听起来真的很糟糕，但我认为这并不是肤色的问题，而更多的是一个如此绝望的人的社会经济水平的问题——事情太糟糕了，人们失去了工作，人们无法支付房租。
And I think that's what makes me more nervous than particular Black Lives Matter or African-Americans or anything like that.
我认为这就是让我比特定的“黑人生命也是命”或非裔美国人或类似的东西更紧张的原因。
I think it's more just the desperation of people.
我认为更多的是人们的绝望。
So the protests and stuff like that doesn't scare me.
所以抗议之类的事情并没有吓到我。
I think it's more just the world in general that scares me and the unrest and the uneasy feeling than anything else.
我认为让我害怕的是整个世界以及不安和不安的感觉，而不是其他任何事情。
One more person.
又一个人。
Elsa lives in a small town in North Carolina.
艾尔莎住在北卡罗来纳州的一个小镇。
Growing up, no one around her had guns.
在她的成长过程中，周围没有人拥有枪支。
She grew up in Kenya, moved to the US over 30 years ago.
她在肯尼亚长大，30 多年前移居美国。
That nightmare scenario that nearly everyone talked about of being woken up in the night by intruders, asleep and helpless, it actually happened to Elsa a couple of years ago.
几乎每个人都在谈论的那种噩梦般的场景，就是在半夜被入侵者吵醒，睡着时又无助，这实际上发生在几年前的艾尔莎身上。
The intruders fled before hurting anyone, but it was terrifying.
入侵者在伤害任何人之前就逃跑了，但这很可怕。
She thought about getting a gun.
她想到了要买把枪。
But she didn't until this year, when COVID hit and when police violence set off protests around the country.
但直到今年新冠疫情爆发、警察暴力在全国各地引发抗议活动时，她才这么做。
I worry not about the Black Lives Matter.
我不担心“黑人的命也是命”。
I worry about the crazies that are out there that are against the Black Lives Matter movement that could target someone like me just because of the color of my skin.
我担心那些反对“黑人生命也是命”运动的疯狂分子可能会因为我的肤色而针对像我这样的人。
For one, I'm mixed.
其一，我是个混血儿。
And my daughter is pale, very, very-- she's got her complexion.
我女儿脸色苍白，非常非常——她的肤色很好。
She's got Caucasian complexion because, well, my ex-husband was white.
她有白人肤色，因为我的前夫是白人。
And like I said, he's my ex-husband.
就像我说的，他是我的前夫。
So my current husband is a Black man.
所以我现在的丈夫是黑人。
Yeah, so Black woman, white child is an issue.
是的，所以黑人妇女、白人孩子是一个问题。
And even worse, I feel worse for my husband because there are a lot of times that he goes out with my daughter.
更糟糕的是，我对我丈夫的感觉更糟糕，因为他很多时候都和我女儿出去。
And my daughter is-- well, aside from her nose, she could pass for white.
我的女儿——好吧，除了她的鼻子，她可能会被认为是白人。
So him walking out with her, I can see someone trying something crazy, you know?
所以他和她一起出去，我可以看到有人在尝试一些疯狂的事情，你知道吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Elsa I worry in part because of the rhetoric that I see, number one, coming from the White House.
埃尔莎，我担心的部分原因是我看到的第一大言论来自白宫。
It scares me.
这让我害怕。
And more and more as we're getting closer to the election, I'm more and more scared.
随着我们越来越接近选举，我越来越害怕。
And I've become so aware now.
我现在已经变得如此清醒了。
Everywhere I go, I make sure I have my weapon on me.
无论我走到哪里，我都会确保随身携带武器。
Oh wow.
哦哇。
Elsa So I came from a third world country.
艾尔莎所以我来自第三世界国家。
Never expected the environment here to be this thick.
没想到这里的环境这么厚重。
I feel so much tension.
我感到非常紧张。
And I fear so much.
我非常害怕。
There's a lot of fear.
有很多恐惧。
You've got the extremists.
你们有极端分子。
And you don't know who they are.
而且你不知道他们是谁。
You don't know who they are.
你不知道他们是谁。
But it's gotten a lot worse during Trump.
但特朗普执政期间情况变得更糟。
There are a lot of people that all along have tried to blend in, right?
有很多人一直在尝试融入，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Elsa Trump came along, and a lot of the people that used to kind of try to blend in and not bring out their true feelings are now bringing out their true feelings.
艾尔莎·特朗普 (Elsa Trump) 出现了，很多过去试图融入社会而不表达自己真实感受的人现在都表达了他们的真实感受。
And they feel like they can get away with it.
他们觉得自己可以逃脱惩罚。
Whereas, before, that wasn't there.
而在之前，那是不存在的。
Do you feel like you can see things changing around you, people coming out, kind of?
你是否觉得你可以看到周围的事情发生变化，人们出来了？
Yeah, well, when you start seeing the Confederate flag all over you, all over around you, that's a big sign, you know?
是的，好吧，当你开始看到南方联盟旗帜遍布你、你周围时，这是一个很大的标志，你知道吗？
I saw one that was right on the side of the highway that didn't used to be there.
我看到一个就在高速公路边上，但以前并不在那里。
How does your husband feel about the decision to buy a gun?
你丈夫对买枪的决定有何感想？
He is completely against it.
他完全反对。
Lilly Sullivan Oh, really?
莉莉·沙利文哦，真的吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, he's like-- I had to kind of ease it in.
是的，他就像——我必须放松一下。
Yeah, 'cause he was not for it at all.
是的，因为他根本不赞成这样做。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Elsa He is completely against them.
艾尔莎他完全反对他们。
He is completely against guns.
他完全反对枪支。
So I think he's kind of warming up to the fact that I have a couple.
所以我认为他对我有一对的事实感到有点兴奋。
But yeah, he's not comfortable-- put it that way.
但是，是的，他不舒服——这么说吧。
Even when I'm cleaning it, I try not to clean it when he's around because he's just not comfortable.
即使我在清理它，当他在身边时我也尽量不清理它，因为他不舒服。
The last question I had for everyone-- now that people have their guns, does it help?
我向大家提出的最后一个问题是——现在人们有了枪，这有帮助吗？
Do you feel better?
你感觉好点了吗？
100%.
100%。
100%.
100%。
Lilly Sullivan Again, here's DeJonae, who bought her gun when she saw people fighting over corn dogs.
莉莉·沙利文（Lilly Sullivan） 又是德乔尼（DeJonae），她在看到人们为玉米热狗而打架时买了枪。
I feel so much better.
我感觉好多了。
I could go to bed--
我可以去睡觉了——
Really?
真的吗？
Dejonae --at night.
Dejonae——晚上。
Yes, 100%.
是的，100%。
You have something to protect yourself.
你有东西可以保护自己。
I mean, I live alone, but I still sleep with my bedroom door closed and locked.
我的意思是，我一个人住，但我睡觉时仍然关着卧室的门并锁上。
And so--
所以——
Really?
真的吗？
Huh.
呵呵。
Dejonae Yes, yeah, I do.
德乔内 是的，是的，我愿意。
Just in case, to give me a couple of extra seconds, I guess.
我想，以防万一，再给我几秒钟的时间。
That's how I see it.
我就是这么看的。
So now I'm fine.
所以现在我很好。
Oh gosh, yes.
哦天哪，是的。
Just having it next to the bed.
只要把它放在床边就可以了。
Yep, just having it next to the bed.
是的，只要把它放在床边就可以了。
Here's Shane, who worried about marauders and neo-Nazis.
这是谢恩，他担心掠夺者和新纳粹分子。
Being powerless is not a good place to be.
无能为力并不是一个好地方。
It does make you feel more secure.
它确实让你感觉更安全。
If things really start going downhill, you're like, we can handle this.
如果事情真的开始走下坡路，你会想，我们可以处理这个问题。
I don't worry about that anymore, which is nice.
我不再担心这个了，这很好。
And finally, Brian, who had so much trouble finding a gun.
最后是布莱恩，他很难找到一把枪。
He finally picked one up the day I talked to him.
在我和他谈话的那天，他终于拿起了一个。
Does it make you feel safer?
这会让你感觉更安全吗？
Brian No, not yet.
布莱恩 不，还没有。
No. No. That's an interesting question because there's a gun sitting on my counter, and I got ammo next to it.
不，不，这是一个有趣的问题，因为我的柜台上放着一把枪，旁边有弹药。
And I don't know where to put it.
而且我不知道该把它放在哪里。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Brian And I'll tell you, I'm not-- let's just say the ammo is still in the ammo boxes.
布莱恩：我告诉你，我不是——我们只是说弹药还在弹药箱里。
And the gun's still in the gun case.
而且枪还在枪盒里。
I'm not in a hurry to put the ammo in the-- what do they call that thing?
我并不急于将弹药放入——他们叫那个东西？
The-- they call it something, the ammo goes in.
他们管这叫什么，弹药进去了。
It's-- I don't know what it's called.
这是——我不知道它叫什么。
Because it'll hold so many bullets in it.
因为里面可以装很多子弹。
I forget what that thing's called, but I'm just not in a hurry to put any bullets in it.
我忘了那个东西叫什么，但我只是不急于往里面放子弹。
I mean--
我的意思是——
Got it.
明白了。
Brian Yeah.
布莱恩 是的。
I mean, I-- honestly, I really don't want one.
我的意思是，说实话，我真的不想要一个。
Oh, you don't?
哦，你不知道吗？
Brian I mean, I don't.
布莱恩，我是说，我不这么认为。
I just-- I almost feel like I just had to get one.
我只是——我几乎觉得我必须得到一个。
Oh, interesting.
哦，有趣。
Does it kind of suck to have one?
拥有一个是不是有点糟糕？
Yeah, I don't like it.
是的，我不喜欢它。
I wish I didn't think-- I wish I didn't think I needed one.
我希望我不认为——我希望我不认为我需要一个。
Brian told me he grew up with guns.
布莱恩告诉我，他是伴随着枪长大的。
But they were for hunting and target practice, for fun.
但它们是为了狩猎和打靶练习，为了乐趣。
He says nobody talked about self-defense.
他说没有人谈论自卫。
Nobody talked about shooting other people.
没有人谈论射击其他人。
But that's all anybody talks about today.
但这就是今天所有人谈论的全部内容。
That's one thing that unites us.
这是我们团结在一起的一件事。
We're united in fear of each other.
我们因为彼此的恐惧而团结在一起。
Lilly Sullivan is a producer on our program.
莉莉·沙利文是我们节目的制片人。
Noor Gil helped her with additional reporting.
努尔吉尔帮助她进行了额外的报道。
[MUSIC - "I'M SCARED" BY LON MILO DUQUETTE]
[音乐 - LON MILO DUQUETTE 的《我害怕》]
Act Three: Second Time’s the Charm Ira Glass Act Three, Second Time's the Charm.
第三幕：第二次的魅力 艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕，第二次的魅力。
So maybe you've heard we're trying to hold an election this year with a possible record-breaking turnout that is also during a pandemic, which has led us into a vast territory of, who knows if this is going to work?
所以也许你听说我们今年正试图举行一次选举，投票率可能会破纪录，而且还是在大流行期间，这让我们陷入了一个广阔的领域，谁知道这是否会奏效？
Reporter Johnny Kauffman has been embedded with the election staff in Fulton County, Georgia.
记者约翰尼·考夫曼已融入佐治亚州富尔顿县的选举工作人员中。
That's the county with the most people in the state and with the city of Atlanta.
这是该州人口最多的县，也是亚特兰大市的所在地。
For months, Johnny's been given unusual access to the election staff, the people who are responsible for handling the mail-in ballots and the voting machines and all that stuff.
几个月来，约翰尼获得了不同寻常的接触选举工作人员、负责处理邮寄选票、投票机和所有其他东西的人员的机会。
He was interested in seeing how things would go this November, partly because they went so badly when they tried to hold the primary during the pandemic back in June.
他很想知道今年 11 月的情况会如何发展，部分原因是他们在 6 月的大流行期间试图举行初选时，情况非常糟糕。
Here's Johnny Kauffman.
请听约翰尼·考夫曼的报道。
The primary election here was a mess.
这里的初选一团糟。
Some voters asked for mail-in ballots, but never got them.
一些选民要求邮寄选票，但从未收到。
Then people who wanted to vote in person waited and waited in line.
然后想要亲自投票的人们就开始排队等候。
People shouldn't have to wait three hours to vote.
人们不应该等待三个小时才能投票。
This is beyond ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
One guy famously started his cell phone timer running.
一名男子启动了手机定时器，这一点颇为著名。
And by the time he voted, it was 1:00 in the morning.
当他投票时，已是凌晨 1:00。
He'd been there almost eight hours and watched all of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Season 8 on his phone.
他在那里待了将近八个小时，并用手机看完了《抑制你的热情》第八季。
The front page of the Atlanta Journal Constitution said, "Complete Meltdown."
《亚特兰大宪法报》的头版写道：“彻底崩溃”。
The state government was pretty clear whose fault they thought all this was.
州政府非常清楚他们认为这一切是谁的错。
Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state, said, quote, "This all lays on Fulton County." He launched an investigation into the county and asked for a new law that would let him take over county election departments if needed.
国务卿布拉德·拉芬斯伯格 (Brad Raffensperger) 说道，“这一切都取决于富尔顿县。”他对该县展开调查，并要求制定一项新法律，允许他在需要时接管县选举部门。
The guy whose job he'd take over if he did that, the man currently running the Fulton County Elections Department, is Rick Barron.
如果他这样做，他将接替他的工作，目前负责富尔顿县选举部门的人是里克·巴伦。
Whatever Secretary Raffensperger's opinion is, it's his opinion.
无论拉芬斯佩格国务卿的意见是什么，这都是他的意见。
It's his opinion alone.
这只是他个人的意见。
And I disagree with him.
我不同意他的观点。
It's worth pointing out Raffensperger and the state government are Republican.
值得指出的是，拉芬斯佩格和州政府都是共和党人。
Fulton County and Atlanta are controlled by Democrats.
富尔顿县和亚特兰大由民主党控制。
Rick started working in elections after he quit his job as a middle manager at a bank.
里克辞去银行中层经理的工作后开始从事选举工作。
He told me he wanted to contribute to, quote, "the betterment of man or something," end quote.
他告诉我，他想为“人类或其他事物的进步”做出贡献，引用结束语。
Rick has this quality that I think lots of people might like to see in the guy who runs their elections.
我认为很多人都希望在选举人身上看到里克身上的这种品质。
He's measured and kind of boring in public.
他在公共场合很有分寸，而且有点无聊。
Like at press conferences, he'll just rattle off stat after stat.
就像在新闻发布会上一样，他只会滔滔不绝地讲述一个又一个的统计数据。
But during the primary, beneath that public face, Rick was full of dread.
但在初选期间，里克在公众面前却充满了恐惧。
I just was constantly-- I've had this constant feeling of stress and that I was failing at my job.
我只是一直——我一直有这种压力感，而且我的工作失败了。
And it didn't seem like anything we did, uh, helped.
我们所做的一切似乎都没有帮助。
One of the things that went wrong in June is that Fulton had these new touchscreen voting computers that were imposed on them by the state.
六月份出现的问题之一是富尔顿拥有国家强加给他们的新触摸屏投票电脑。
And there wasn't enough time to train poll workers properly.
而且没有足够的时间对投票工作人员进行适当的培训。
But Rick and the Fulton staff say most of the troubles in their primary were really about the pandemic.
但里克和富尔顿的工作人员表示，他们初选中的大部分麻烦实际上都与流感大流行有关。
So many applications for mail-in ballots came in, the email system crashed.
由于邮寄选票的申请太多，电子邮件系统崩溃了。
And then some of the staff got COVID.
然后一些员工感染了新冠病毒。
It slowed their operations, and they had to close the elections office to disinfect it.
这减慢了他们的行动速度，他们不得不关闭选举办公室进行消毒。
Then, close to primary election day, dozens of poll workers quit, scared about the virus.
然后，临近初选日，数十名投票站工作人员因担心病毒而辞职。
Polling places like churches decided they didn't want to be polling places anymore.
像教堂这样的投票站决定不再成为投票站。
Tim Cummings is a manager at the warehouse where the county stores its election equipment.
蒂姆·卡明斯是该县存放选举设备的仓库的经理。
He told me at the last minute the Fulton staff thought about just pitching a tent in the middle of an Atlanta park.
他告诉我，富尔顿的工作人员在最后一刻考虑在亚特兰大公园中央搭一个帐篷。
Get people to vote there.
让人们在那里投票。
Yeah, I mean, 'cause we were like drowning men grabbing for straws.
是的，我的意思是，因为我们就像溺水者抓住救命稻草。
We got to find somewhere for this to be.
我们必须找到一个地方来实现这一点。
In the middle of all this, a beloved longtime employee named Beverly Walker died.
在这一切之中，一位深受爱戴的长期员工贝弗利·沃克去世了。
Everyone had to cope with that.
每个人都必须应对这个问题。
She was 62 and worked in the department for 14 years.
她今年 62 岁，在该部门工作了 14 年。
Even after she retired, she would come back to help as a temp.
即使退休后，她也会回来帮忙做临时工。
Here's Tim Cummings again.
蒂姆·卡明斯又来了。
I knew Beverly.
我认识贝弗利。
We all did.
我们都这么做了。
We worked with her because they're here every election.
我们和她一起工作，因为他们每次选举都会在这里。
There's a picture of her on the wall in my cubicle right now.
我的隔间墙上现在挂着她的照片。
They went through a lot.
他们经历了很多。
And Ralph got sick, too.
拉尔夫也病了。
I didn't realize that.
我没有意识到这一点。
Yeah, he was sick, too.
是的，他也病了。
We were worried about whether or not he was going to make it.
我们担心他能否成功。
We still had to get a job done.
我们仍然必须完成工作。
It wasn't easy.
这并不容易。
And some days, people were just pissed.
有时候，人们只是很生气。
But they came in, and they did the job.
但他们进来了，他们完成了工作。
I don't really know how to say it.
我真的不知道该怎么说。
It's a really bad time to make any mistake, because people right now are really unforgiving of anything.
现在是犯错误的好时机，因为现在的人们真的无法原谅任何事情。
This is Caryn Ficklin.
这是卡琳·菲克林。
She runs the mail-in ballot operation for Fulton County.
她负责富尔顿县的邮寄选票业务。
They don't care what you're going through, how you're feeling, what's happening with you or anything.
他们不关心你正在经历什么，你的感受如何，你身上发生了什么或者任何事情。
It's just like-- you know.
就像——你知道。
Yeah, I guess it is what it is.
是的，我想就是这样。
It's the beast that we have to deal with right now.
这是我们现在必须对付的野兽。
In the lead-up to the general election, the county made a bunch of changes in hopes of avoiding another meltdown like the primary.
在大选前夕，该县做出了一系列改变，希望避免再次出现像初选那样的崩溃。
For starters, 91 more polling places on Election Day, with more training on the touchscreen voting computers for all the poll workers.
首先，选举日将增加 91 个投票站，并为所有投票工作人员提供更多关于触摸屏投票电脑的培训。
Nonprofits gave them millions of dollars to help pay for all that.
非营利组织给了他们数百万美元来帮助支付所有费用。
But the thing they're really hoping will make this different than last time is that they're trying to get people to vote now in person or in the mail.
但他们真正希望与上次不同的是，他们正试图让人们现在亲自或通过邮件投票。
Rick will tell any reporter who gets within two feet of him that he wants as many people as possible to vote before Election Day.
里克会告诉任何距离他两英尺以内的记者，他希望尽可能多的人在选举日之前投票。
80% is his goal.
80%是他的目标。
So a couple of weeks ago, early voting began in Georgia.
几周前，乔治亚州开始提前投票。
Rick and his team had been working nonstop through the weekends, right up till the midnight before the polls opened, to make sure the machines would work without a hitch, and the lines would move quickly.
里克和他的团队整个周末都在不停地工作，直到投票开始前的午夜，以确保机器能够顺利工作，并且队伍能够快速移动。
When I saw Rick, he was often harried, messy hair, hopping between meetings.
当我看到里克时，他经常显得很忙碌，头发凌乱，在会议之间来回走动。
On Monday morning, October 12, the first day of early voting, I went to the largest polling place in the county.
10 月 12 日星期一早上，提前投票的第一天，我去了该县最大的投票站。
It's actually the giant arena where the Atlanta Hawks play.
这实际上是亚特兰大老鹰队比赛的巨型球馆。
The team offered it up after what happened during the primary.
在初选期间发生的事情之后，该团队提供了它。
I wanted to see how things would go.
我想看看事情会如何发展。
Hey, how's it going?
嘿，怎么样？
I'm trying to meet up with the Fulton County elections director, who's inside.
我正试图与富尔顿县选举主任会面，他就在里面。
Gate 2?
2号门？
When I get there around 8:00, hundreds of people were already lined up, and TV crews were camped out.
当我8:00左右到达那里时，数百人已经在排队，电视摄制组也在外面扎营。
I tracked down Rick near some closed concession stands.
我在一些关门的小摊附近找到了瑞克。
Wow, you see how many people are out there?
哇，你看外面有多少人吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Barron That's really like-- hold on.
里克·巴伦（Rick Barron）：这真的很像——等等。
Rick takes a call, talking through a black mask with "Vote" written on it in bold white print.
里克接了电话，戴着黑色面具讲话，上面用粗体白色字体写着“投票”。
He's more put together than usual-- clean shaven, wearing a dark blue suit.
他比平常更精神了——胡子刮得干干净净，穿着一套深蓝色的西装。
It's a big day.
这是一个重要的日子。
Then, an election worker comes up to him.
然后，一名选举工作人员向他走来。
People are trying to vote, but an error keeps popping up-- "Session ID invalid."
人们试图投票，但不断弹出错误——“会话 ID 无效”。
They aren't working?
他们不工作吗？
What, on all of them?
什么，在他们所有人身上？
They have over 300 voting computers at the arena.
他们在赛场上有超过 300 台投票电脑。
Apparently, none of them are working.
显然，他们都没有工作。
Rick hurries down some stairs, past empty seats, to the floor of the arena where the voting computers are set up, a jumbotron overhead.
里克匆匆走下楼梯，经过空座位，来到设置投票电脑的竞技场地板，头顶上有一个大屏幕。
Lines fill the hallways of the arena.
竞技场的走廊里排满了队伍。
Yeah, so the first two people that came down both did not make it through.
是的，所以最先下来的两个人都没有成功。
And so that's when-- and then we stopped people from coming.
就在那时——然后我们阻止了人们的到来。
I've already got a call into Nadine as we speak.
就在我们说话的时候，我已经接到了纳丁的电话。
A Hawks employee comes up to Rick and is like, what are we supposed to tell the people in line?
一名老鹰队的员工走到里克面前问道，我们应该告诉排队的人什么？
From what I understand, the lines are rapidly, rapidly growing.
据我了解，线路正在快速、快速地增长。
We stopped processing across the building.
我们停止了整个大楼的处理。
OK.
好的。
Johnny Kauffman Rick is on the phone basically this whole time.
约翰尼·考夫曼·里克基本上一直在打电话。
I've seen him in situations like this before.
我以前见过他遇到过这样的情况。
Everyone around him is wound up, and he sort of slows down.
他周围的每个人都紧张起来，他的速度也慢了下来。
I mean, we've tested all these poll pads so I just don't understand how this-- what the [BLEEP] is going on.
我的意思是，我们已经测试了所有这些投票板，所以我只是不明白 [BLEEP] 是怎么回事。
[SIGHS]
[叹气]
He runs up the stairs, breathing hard because of his mask, looking for a county IT employee.
他跑上楼梯，因为戴着口罩而呼吸困难，寻找一名县 IT 员工。
Then the CEO of the Hawks, Steve Koonin, comes up to him.
然后老鹰队的首席执行官史蒂夫·库宁走到他面前。
This is not the public relations win Koonin was hoping for when he offered up his team's arena.
这并不是库宁在提供球队主场时所希望的公关胜利。
We should not have been put in this position one hour in, where I have to stand in front of the press and tell them why people can't vote.
我们不应该在一小时后陷入这样的境地，我必须站在媒体面前告诉他们为什么人们不能投票。
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
Well, we'll get it.
好吧，我们会得到它。
We'll get it squared away here.
我们会在这里把它摆平。
These two guys right now are resetting poll pads, so we're going to be able to get--
这两个家伙现在正在重置投票台，所以我们将能够——
Yeah.
是的。
Steve Koonin And that's not fast.
Steve Koonin：这并不快。
And they don't seem to be-- I mean, that's a voter that is literally--
他们似乎不是——我的意思是，那是一个真正的选民——
Rick and the Fulton staff finally figure out a fix.
里克和富尔顿的工作人员终于找到了解决办法。
They have to update a file and reset the iPads used to check people in.
他们必须更新文件并重置用于签到的 iPad。
The lines start moving.
队伍开始移动。
People can vote.
人们可以投票。
It was a small win for Rick and the Fulton staff.
对于里克和富尔顿的工作人员来说，这是一个小小的胜利。
Later, the Hawks CEO, Koonin, came up to Rick again.
随后，老鹰队首席执行官库宁再次找到了里克。
An hour made a big difference.
一个小时就产生了很大的变化。
Everyone's pumped up, except for Rick.
每个人都兴奋不已，除了瑞克。
Listen to this exchange.
听听这次交流。
Koonin's beaming, and Rick is like, this was awful.
库宁笑容满面，瑞克则觉得，这太糟糕了。
Well, I will say our recovery actually was faster than it felt.
好吧，我会说我们的恢复实际上比想象的要快。
All right, well, it just felt like a nightmare.
好吧，好吧，感觉就像一场噩梦。
Why don't we just go proactively talk to the press and knock it out and fix it?
我们为什么不主动与媒体交谈并解决问题呢？
Yeah, that would be good.
是的，那很好。
Steve Koonin I think it's the smartest thing we can do.
Steve Koonin 我认为这是我们能做的最明智的事情。
Everyone ready?
大家准备好了吗？
Everybody ready?
大家准备好了吗？
All right, well, good morning.
好吧，好吧，早上好。
I'm Rob Pitts.
我是罗布·皮茨。
I'm chairman of the Board of Commissioners of Fulton County.
我是富尔顿县委员会主席。
Pitts tells the reporters and TV cameras how great things are going.
皮茨告诉记者和电视摄像机，事情进展得多么顺利。
Then Rick gets the job of explaining what went wrong.
然后里克得到了解释出了什么问题的工作。
An issue I don't know the cause of it yet.
一个问题，我还不知道其原因。
There's something with the database on the poll pads that was here.
这里的投票台上有数据库的东西。
So we apologize to all of the voters and to the Hawks and Mr. Koonin.
因此，我们向所有选民、老鹰队和库宁先生道歉。
Afterward, Rick walks to the floor of the arena and pauses, just for a moment.
随后，瑞克走到竞技场的地板上，停顿了一会儿。
It's serene, watching the people quietly vote.
很平静，看着人们静静地投票。
Then he heads to his car.
然后他走向自己的车。
It's around noon, but he seems tired.
已经是中午了，但他看起来很累。
I was feeling so comfortable, and I'm watching people coming in, streaming into the building.
我感觉很舒服，我看着人们涌入大楼。
And I was like-- I was excited.
我当时感觉——我很兴奋。
I thought, oh, wow, this is going to be so good.
我想，哦，哇，这会太棒了。
And then that.
然后就是这样。
What a morning.
多么美好的一个早晨啊。
But I don't understand.
但我不明白。
I mean, some people are complaining that, wow, this is-- I heard somebody say we've got June all over again this morning at these early voting sites.
我的意思是，有些人抱怨说，哇，这是——我听到有人说今天早上在这些提前投票地点我们又迎来了六月。
And it's like, we got 32 sites open.
就像我们开放了 32 个站点。
In June, it was five.
六月的时候，已经五岁了。
There were snags in those first days.
最初的日子里遇到了一些障碍。
Lines did get long sometimes.
有时队伍确实很长。
But Rick felt like things were under control.
但瑞克觉得一切都在掌控之中。
But Tuesday night, I got an email from Rick's assistant with some scary news.
但周二晚上，我收到了里克助理发来的一封电子邮件，里面有一些可怕的消息。
One of the election staff tested positive for the virus, just like during the primary.
一名选举工作人员的病毒检测呈阳性，就像初选期间一样。
I called Rick the next day.
第二天我给里克打了电话。
By then, even more people had tested positive.
到那时，更多的人检测结果呈阳性。
I'm doing a press conference at 2:00.
我将在 2:00 召开新闻发布会。
I don't know if you got it, but I've got 13 infections at the warehouse.
我不知道你有没有收到，但我仓库里有13个感染者。
The warehouse is where the county keeps all the printers and voting computers.
该仓库是该县存放所有打印机和投票电脑的地方。
They've always been worried about the virus spreading there because it's so full of equipment, and it's hard to stay six feet apart.
他们一直担心病毒在那里传播，因为那里充满了设备，而且很难保持六英尺的距离。
People do wear masks.
人们确实戴着口罩。
And one manager even had a barrier in her office so that people couldn't get close.
一位经理甚至在她的办公室设置了屏障，防止人们靠近。
But she still got sick.
但她还是生病了。
I just don't want anybody to die out of this or be one of those long haulers where they are just sick forever.
我只是不想让任何人因此而死，或者成为那些永远生病的长途运输者之一。
Hopefully they'll get over it quick.
希望他们能尽快克服它。
But we've got a couple guys that are sick that are seniors.
但我们有几个生病的老年人。
I don't know.
我不知道。
[SIGHS] Kind of a-- I mean, this going to end up being a national story, probably, when you've got this many in an elections warehouse.
[叹气]有点——我的意思是，当选举仓库里有这么多东西时，这可能最终会成为一个全国性的故事。
This isn't like one or two.
这可不是一两个。
This is a full-blown outbreak.
这是一次全面爆发。
By Monday, two days later, the total was 23 cases.
到两天后的周一，病例总数达到 23 例。
At least one person was in the hospital.
至少有一人在医院。
All the workers at the warehouse were sent home, except for a few who hadn't tested positive.
除了少数未检测呈阳性的人外，仓库的所有工人都被送回家。
I'm at the warehouse.
我在仓库。
I'll be here for a minute.
我会在这里待一会儿。
Hold on for a second.
等一下。
I got a call coming through.
我接到一个电话。
I called Tim Cummings one night.
一天晚上我给蒂姆·卡明斯打了电话。
He's the manager at the warehouse who you heard earlier.
他就是你之前听说过的仓库经理。
Yeah, I been worried about getting sick since March.
是的，从三月份开始我就一直担心生病。
A lot of my crew scared, but we come in, we do what we gotta do.
我的很多船员都很害怕，但我们进来了，我们做了我们必须做的事情。
We're worried about making sure this election happens successfully.
我们担心确保这次选举成功举行。
So we're doing everything we can to get it done.
因此，我们正在尽一切努力来完成它。
What are you most worried about right now, in terms of pulling off the election?
就完成选举而言，您现在最担心的是什么？
Getting it all done in time.
及时完成这一切。
'Cause right now, one of the reasons I stay so late is I'm like, if I can make everything that they need to do the L&A and program the machines--
因为现在，我熬到这么晚的原因之一是，如果我能制造出他们进行 L&A 和对机器进行编程所需的一切——
He's talking about getting the voting computers all ready for testing and then delivered to polling places by Election Day.
他正在谈论让投票计算机做好测试准备，然后在选举日之前运送到投票地点。
If I can get all of that prepared before something happens-- before I full out test positive or whatever, everything will be fine.
如果我能在事情发生之前做好所有准备——在我测试呈阳性或其他什么之前，一切都会好起来的。
'Cause somebody else can step in at that point.
因为那时其他人可以介入。
My worry is not getting that complete.
我的担心还没有那么彻底。
Hoping I can hold out till everybody else comes back, or somebody gets back.
希望我能坚持到其他人都回来，或者有人回来。
All over the country, people are freaking out about the election, worried about hacking, violence and intimidation, the supposed voter fraud President Trump keeps talking about.
全国各地的人们都对这次选举感到恐惧，担心黑客攻击、暴力和恐吓，而特朗普总统一直在谈论所谓的选民欺诈。
But none of that has been a big problem for Rick and the Fulton staff.
但对于里克和富尔顿的员工来说，这一切都不是大问题。
Their problem is something bigger.
他们的问题更大。
Yeah, the virus has been the disruption.
是的，病毒造成了破坏。
I mean, I heard somebody yesterday say, oh, I've lived through the decades of the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, oughts and the teens, and now I've also lived through every month of 2020.
我的意思是，我昨天听到有人说，哦，我经历了 60 年代、70 年代、80 年代、90 年代、九十年代和十几岁的几十年，现在我也经历了 2020 年的每个月。
You know, it's like-- it's almost like its own decade in itself.
你知道，这就像——这几乎就像它自己的十年一样。
And yeah, I mean, this has been the weirdest year of my life.
是的，我的意思是，这是我一生中最奇怪的一年。
The county hired some outside help.
该县雇用了一些外部帮助。
Rick says the plan right now is just for everyone to work really long days.
里克说，现在的计划只是让每个人都工作很长时间。
Johnny Kauffman is a reporter with Atlanta's public radio station, WABE.
约翰尼·考夫曼是亚特兰大公共广播电台 WABE 的记者。
His reporting at the Fulton County Elections Department is possible thanks to the Nieman Foundation for Journalism and the Abrams Foundation.
感谢尼曼新闻基金会和艾布拉姆斯基金会，他能够在富尔顿县选举部门进行报道。
As I'm recording this, the total number of election workers in Fulton County that have tested positive for COVID is 25.
在我记录此事时，富尔顿县新冠病毒检测呈阳性的选举工作人员总数为 25 人。
Two people are in the ICU.
ICU 里有两个人。
Some others have returned to work.
其他一些人已经返回工作岗位。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Robyn Semien and Susan Burton.
图片来源：Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Robyn Semien 和 Susan Burton 制作。
The people who put our program together today include Bim Adewunmi, Ben Calhoun, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Hilary Elkins, Noor Gill, Damien Grave, Michelle Harris, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Lina Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天制作我们节目的人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Ben Calhoun、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Hilary Elkins、Noor Gill、Damien Grave、Michelle Harris、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Lina Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和吴黛安.
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑是萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Sarah Abdurrahman)。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks to Chris Haxel, Emma Hurt, Mate Halmos, Mikaela Robertson, Anna Luhrmann, John Carey, Geneva Solomon and Redstone Firearms, Laurie Abraham, and Katherine Wells.
特别感谢 Chris Haxel、Emma Hurt、Mate Halmos、Mikaela Robertson、Anna Luhrmann、John Carey、Geneva Solomon 和 Redstone Firearms、Laurie Abraham 和 Katherine Wells。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He was invited to a party this week.
这周他被邀请参加一个聚会。
He dressed for Halloween as Michael J.
他在万圣节打扮成迈克尔·J.
Fox in Teen Wolf.
《少狼》里的狐狸。
When he got there, he realized it was a fundraising gala, black tie.
当他到达那里时，他意识到这是一场筹款晚会，黑色领结。
I'm there in cut-off sweatpants and a hoodie, wearing a mask.
我穿着剪裁运动裤和连帽衫，戴着口罩。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。