720: The Moment After This Moment - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #720 | October 16, 2020 720: The Moment After This Moment Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 720 集 | 2020 年 10 月 16 日 720：这一刻之后的那一刻 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Florida is crucial this election.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 佛罗里达州对于这次选举至关重要。
Florida, Florida, Florida.
佛罗里达，佛罗里达，佛罗里达。
One of the people who thinks about that a lot is Kevin Sheekey.
凯文·希基 (Kevin Sheekey) 就是经常思考这个问题的人之一。
He's the guy whose job it is to spend $100 million that billionaire Mike Bloomberg has devoted to winning Florida for Joe Biden.
他的工作就是花费亿万富翁迈克·布隆伯格投入的 1 亿美元为乔·拜登赢得佛罗里达州。
Sheekey is not intimidated by that task at all.
希基根本没有被这项任务吓倒。
He's spent lots of Bloomberg's money in the past.
他过去花了布隆伯格的很多钱。
He ran Bloomberg's three successful runs for New York mayor and his campaign for president this year.
他领导了布隆伯格三度成功竞选纽约市长以及今年的总统竞选活动。
And Mike likes to say he gave me an unlimited budget, and I exceeded it each and every time.
迈克喜欢说他给了我无限的预算，而我每次都超出了预算。
I actually don't intend to do that in the state of Florida.
实际上我不打算在佛罗里达州这样做。
So why Florida?
那么为什么是佛罗里达呢？
Of all the battleground states, why $100 million there?
在所有的战场州中，为什么有 1 亿美元在那里？
Kevin explained that a big part of it has to do with what's going to happen in other states.
凯文解释说，其中很大一部分与其他州将要发生的事情有关。
He pointed to all the times, in tweets and in speeches, that the president has said that mail-in ballots cannot be trusted.
他在推文和演讲中多次指出，总统一直表示邮寄选票不可信。
Donald Trump has sought to delegitimatize all mail-in ballots, full stop.
唐纳德·特朗普试图取消所有邮寄选票的合法性，句号。
And clearly, will have a plan to contest those ballots after election day, as they are counted, in important swing states such as Michigan and Pennsylvania, which Joe Biden is currently leading in.
显然，他将计划在选举日结束后，在计票后，在密歇根州和宾夕法尼亚州等重要的摇摆州（乔·拜登目前在这两个州领先）对这些选票进行竞选。
Michigan will take at least three days to count their ballots.
密歇根州将至少需要三天时间来清点选票。
Pennsylvania is not much different.
宾夕法尼亚州也没什么不同。
Trump has said, listen, I'm going to take every lawyer and every judge I have.
特朗普说过，听着，我将带走我拥有的每一位律师和每一位法官。
I'm going to question every single ballot and try to toss them out.
我将质疑每一张选票并尝试将它们扔掉。
And just throwing out ballots by random could really move those states from Biden to Trump.
仅仅随机地投出选票确实可以让这些州从拜登转向特朗普。
That's because more Democrats are doing mail-in ballots than Republicans are this year.
这是因为今年进行邮寄选票的民主党人比共和党人多。
Bloomberg's people have actually run the numbers and calculated that there are states who were throwing out 7% of the ballots at random for not being filled out correctly, which would flip a Biden victory in that state to a Trump victory.
布隆伯格的人实际上已经计算过这些数字，并计算出有些州因填写不正确而随机扔掉了 7% 的选票，这将使拜登在该州的胜利变成特朗普的胜利。
And that's a very dangerous proposition.
这是一个非常危险的提议。
And that's what we're trying to avoid by getting into Florida.
这就是我们进入佛罗里达州试图避免的。
Florida is a state that Donald Trump pretty much has to win.
佛罗里达州是唐纳德·特朗普几乎必须赢得的一个州。
If he loses Florida, it would be enormously difficult for him to gather enough electoral votes to have re-election.
如果他失去佛罗里达州，他将很难获得足够的选举人票来连任。
And-- this is key-- Florida is a state that counts mail-in ballots as they arrive.
而且 - 这是关键 - 佛罗里达州是一个在邮寄选票到达时对其进行计数的州。
They're counting them right now, already, which means we very well could know the results in Florida on election night.
他们现在已经在计票了，这意味着我们很可能在选举之夜知道佛罗里达州的结果。
And if Florida goes to Biden, it might settle the race that night.
如果佛罗里达州支持拜登，那么当晚的竞选可能会结束。
And our ultimate goal is to win the state of Florida so that we, quite frankly, don't have to have that fight in a state like Pennsylvania.
我们的最终目标是赢得佛罗里达州，这样坦率地说，我们就不必在宾夕法尼亚州这样的州进行这场斗争。
So how did you pick 100 million?
那么1亿是怎么选的呢？
What was that discussion like?
那次讨论是什么样的？
You know, listen, I think it was ultimately what we determined we would need.
你知道，听着，我认为这最终是我们确定我们需要的。
It was the number that we thought we would make a difference.
我们认为这个数字能够带来改变。
I called a guy who I know who is probably the smartest strategist on the Democratic side.
我给一个我认识的人打电话，他可能是民主党方面最聪明的战略家。
And I asked him, how much would you need to spend if you wanted to be able to have an impact on a race, statewide race, in a presidential in Florida?
我问他，如果你想对佛罗里达州的总统竞选、全州竞选产生影响，你需要花多少钱？
And how much would you need to really put your thumb on the scale?
您需要多少才能真正将拇指放在秤上？
And he said at the time, well, Florida is an extraordinarily expensive state.
他当时说，佛罗里达州是一个非常昂贵的州。
It has a lot of large, expensive media markets.
它拥有许多大型且昂贵的媒体市场。
And to have any sort of impact, you really need to spend $20 million.
要产生任何影响，你确实需要花费 2000 万美元。
And if you really want to put your thumb on the scale, you're going to need to spend $70 million.
如果你真的想衡量一下，你将需要花费 7000 万美元。
And so, this being Bloomberg, we rounded up.
因此，这是彭博社，我们进行了围捕。
Most of that Bloomberg money is going to TV ads and digital ads, dropped into cities all across the state, like a vast air war conducted from 30,000 feet.
彭博社的大部分资金都用于电视广告和数字广告，投放到全州各个城市，就像从 30,000 英尺高空进行的大规模空战一样。
Kevin Sheekey says Bloomberg's doing daily polling to see what effect this is having, which is actually kind of hard to figure out.
凯文·希基表示，彭博社每天都会进行民意调查，看看这会产生什么影响，但这实际上很难弄清楚。
All kinds of things push voter opinion around.
各种各样的事情都会影响选民的意见。
But Kevin says the numbers in Florida have moved from a tie between Trump and Biden to a small Biden lead.
但凯文表示，佛罗里达州的数字已从特朗普和拜登的平局变为拜登的小幅领先。
It's still within the margin of error, but it's a lead, 2 to 4 points, that the Bloomberg people find encouraging.
虽然仍处于误差范围内，但领先 2 到 4 个百分点，令彭博社的人士感到鼓舞。
So that's the view from 30,000 feet.
这就是从 30,000 英尺处看到的景色。
Down on the ground, that all looks a little different because of something so basic.
在地面上，由于一些如此基本的东西，一切看起来都有点不同。
And that's the coronavirus and how the two campaigns have responded to the coronavirus.
这就是冠状病毒以及这两个竞选活动如何应对冠状病毒。
As you may know over the summer, the Democratic Party policy was, do not go door to door.
正如你在夏天可能知道的那样，民主党的政策是，不要挨家挨户拜访。
Do not hold events in person.
不要亲自举办活动。
Do not hold rallies.
不要举行集会。
Republicans did all that stuff.
共和党人做了所有这些事情。
And in Florida, even before the virus, they were doing more and registering more voters than the Democrats.
在佛罗里达州，甚至在病毒出现之前，他们就比民主党做得更多，登记的选民也更多。
In sheer numbers, there are more registered Democrats in the state than Republicans.
从数量上看，该州登记的民主党人比共和党人还多。
But since 2016, the Republicans have knocked that lead down.
但自 2016 年以来，共和党已经打破了这一领先优势。
It used to be 7%.
以前是7%。
Now it's just 3 and 1/2%.
现在只有3又1/2%。
A quarter of the voters in the state have no party affiliation.
该州四分之一的选民没有党派。
So the Republicans were going strong before the virus.
因此，共和党在病毒爆发之前就表现强劲。
And after the virus hit the state, they resumed normal operations.
病毒袭击该州后，他们恢复了正常运营。
But the Democrats were not going out to campaign.
但民主党并没有出去竞选。
It was like one party was out there in the streets, visible.
就好像街上有一场派对，清晰可见。
And the other was just not.
另一个则不然。
One of our producers, Lina Misitzis, has been talking to Florida Democrats about all that.
我们的制片人之一莉娜·米西齐斯 (Lina Misitzis) 一直在与佛罗里达州民主党人谈论这一切。
And Lina, how are they feeling?
莉娜，他们感觉怎么样？
Not great.
不太好。
Or at least, not the ones that I talked to.
或者至少，不是那些与我交谈过的人。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Lina Misitzis OK, so there's this one voter I found, Marji Hope.
Lina Misitzis 好的，我找到了一位选民，Marji Hope。
She's in a suburb called Weston, which is in one of the bluest counties in Florida.
她所在的郊区叫韦斯顿，是佛罗里达州最蓝的县之一。
It's Broward County, which is just north of Miami.
它是布劳沃德县，位于迈阿密北部。
But she says that the Republican presence is so much more noticeable that her house is somehow surrounded by Trump signs.
但她表示，共和党的存在更加引人注目，以至于她的房子不知何故被特朗普标志包围。
Wow.
哇。
Lina Misitzis And there's almost no Biden signs in her neighborhood.
莉娜·米西齐斯 (Lina Misitzis) 她家附近几乎没有拜登的标志。
Wow.
哇。
Lina Misitzis Yeah, and she sees Trump supporters everywhere.
Lina Misitzis 是的，她到处都看到特朗普的支持者。
The frustrating thing that is happening is when I get texts from my friends with pictures saying, oh my god, a carload of Trump supporters just got out in my neighborhood, and they're knocking on doors right now.
正在发生的令人沮丧的事情是，当我收到朋友发来的带有图片的短信时，他们说，天哪，一车特朗普支持者刚刚从我家附近出来，他们现在正在敲门。
But we have been not able to do that.
但我们一直没能做到这一点。
So four years ago, Hillary Clinton's campaign had an office near Marji's house in Weston.
四年前，希拉里·克林顿的竞选团队在韦斯顿的玛吉家附近设立了一个办公室。
And that's where people would go to pick up signs, to phone bank, to meet up with each other.
人们会去那里领取标牌、打电话给银行、互相会面。
Biden doesn't even have offices set up yet here, OK?
拜登在这里甚至还没有设立办公室，好吗？
We haven't been able to-- we haven't gotten campaign material.
我们无法——我们还没有获得竞选材料。
I mean, how hard is it to just put stuff on somebody's door?
我的意思是，把东西放在别人的门上有多难？
We could get Weston done.
我们可以把韦斯顿搞定。
There's, like, 65,000 people living here.
大概有 65,000 人住在这里。
We could get them done in a weekend.
我们可以在一个周末内完成它们。
And that's where the frustration is, is the minute we would put a call out, I know that I'd get a ton of people to come out.
这就是令人沮丧的地方，当我们发出呼吁的那一刻，我知道会有很多人站出来。
Because we're all dying to do this.
因为我们都渴望这样做。
Not only is Marji keeping track of what her site isn't doing, she's keeping track of what the other side is doing.
Marji 不仅跟踪她的网站未执行的操作，还跟踪对方正在执行的操作。
She actually signed up for her county-- the Broward County local Republican newsletter.
她实际上订阅了她所在的县——布劳沃德县当地的共和党时事通讯。
Wait, why?
等等，为什么？
Lina Misitzis Because every day, when it sends out its daily email that lists all of the campaign events that they have coming up for the Republicans, she likes to keep track of it.
Lina Misitzis 因为每天，当它发送每日电子邮件，列出他们为共和党准备的所有竞选活动时，她都喜欢跟踪它。
And it kind of drives her crazy, just noticing all of these events that they're running.
只是注意到他们正在举办的所有这些活动，这有点让她发疯。
They are doing candidate forums.
他们正在做候选人论坛。
They are doing watch parties for the debates.
他们正在为辩论举办观看派对。
They had watch parties at this place my husband and I used to go have breakfast at all the time, which we're not going to anymore.
他们在这个地方举办观看派对，我和我丈夫过去常常去吃早餐，但我们不再去了。
Because I'm like, if they're hosting these huge watch-- I could send you all these pictures of these people at the debates.
因为我想，如果他们主持这些巨大的观看活动，我可以向您发送这些人在辩论中的所有照片。
Probably fit a lot of young people--
可能适合很多年轻人——
They make a lot of noise, and they make their presence known.
他们发出很大的噪音，让人们知道他们的存在。
I also talked to Marji's friend, Julie.
我还和玛吉的朋友朱莉谈过。
She tracks the Republican events, too.
她也追踪共和党的事件。
And while Marji sounds kind of indignant when she talks about it, Julie sounds almost wistful.
虽然玛吉在谈论这件事时听起来有点愤慨，但朱莉听起来几乎是渴望的。
They had pictures on the community Facebook page, and they had a watch party.
他们在社区 Facebook 页面上发布了照片，并举办了一场观看派对。
And I thought, well, that's nice.
我想，嗯，那很好。
I mean, most of them weren't wearing masks.
我的意思是，他们中的大多数人都没有戴口罩。
So I know that that's something that a lot of people would be hesitant to do.
所以我知道很多人都会犹豫是否要做这件事。
But it just seemed like it was something that involved community, that they were sitting together around, going, hey, we are a group.
但这似乎是涉及社区的事情，他们坐在一起，说，嘿，我们是一个团体。
We are here.
我们在这里。
And they kind of support each other.
他们互相支持。
And it's kind of something that I wish we could replicate and were as strong.
我希望我们能够复制这种东西并且变得同样强大。
In the absence of their own official meetups, I found a bunch of frustrated Democrats all over Florida, not just in Broward, who took matters into their own hands.
在没有举行自己的官方聚会的情况下，我发现佛罗里达州各地都有一群沮丧的民主党人，而不仅仅是布劳沃德，他们把事情掌握在自己手中。
What are they doing?
他们在做什么？
Lina Misitzis OK, there's a woman in Oviedo, which is a small red town.
Lina Misitzis 好吧，奥维耶多有一个女人，那是一个红色小镇。
And she's been hosting these very small rallies on street corners every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
她每周一、周三和周五都会在街角举办这些小型集会。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Lina Misitzis Another example is a grandmother in Tallahassee who told me that she printed out a bunch of Florida voter registration forms.
Lina Misitzis 另一个例子是塔拉哈西的一位祖母，她告诉我她打印了一堆佛罗里达州选民登记表。
And she was handing them out to young-seeming people in the Walmart parking lot.
她正在沃尔玛停车场把它们分发给看起来很年轻的人。
Now I've read that the Biden campaign did finally start going door to door in Florida and in other states, too, this fall.
现在我读到，今年秋天，拜登竞选活动终于开始在佛罗里达州和其他州挨家挨户地进行竞选活动。
Yes, that happened two weeks after I started talking to Marji.
是的，那是在我开始与玛吉交谈两周后发生的。
And she went out with them.
她和他们一起出去了。
But for her, it wasn't enough.
但对她来说，这还不够。
Why am I canvassing 23 days before-- whatever-- 25 days before an election?
为什么我要在选举前 23 天——无论如何——选举前 25 天拉票？
I should have been canvassing 40 days before an election.
我应该在选举前 40 天进行拉票。
Right.
正确的。
Marji Hope You know how many people-- I mean, hundreds of thousands of people have already voted in Florida.
Marji Hope 你知道有多少人——我的意思是，数十万人已经在佛罗里达州投票了。
Act One: School of Hard Knocks Ira Glass Well, today on our show, we have stories of people fretting, worried about what is going to happen next, and all that is still unknown.
第一幕：艰难的学校 Ira Glass 好吧，今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了人们焦躁不安、担心接下来会发生什么的故事，而这一切仍然是未知的。
The future is barreling towards them.
未来正在向他们驶来。
They're going to find out soon enough, but not quite yet.
他们很快就会知道，但还不是时候。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And let's get to it.
让我们开始吧。
Act 1, the School of Hard Knocks.
第一幕，艰难的学校。
So Lina looked into whether the fears that she heard from Florida's Democrats are justified.
因此，莉娜调查了她从佛罗里达州民主党人那里听到的担忧是否合理。
Are their leaders dropping the ball?
他们的领导人是否犯了错误？
Did the party pull back too far with the coronavirus precautions?
该党在冠状病毒预防措施方面是否退缩太多了？
She put together this story.
她把这个故事拼凑起来。
I think Democrats have been doing, instead of door knocking, phone calling.
我认为民主党人一直在打电话，而不是敲门。
And gone is the camaraderie of organizing, everyone breathing in the same air in some makeshift, fluorescent-lit campaign center.
组织中的友情消失了，每个人都在某个临时搭建的、荧光灯照明的竞选中心里呼吸着同样的空气。
This volunteering is done from home.
这项志愿服务是在家中完成的。
And here's what it looks like.
这就是它的样子。
Maria is a phone banking volunteer.
玛丽亚是一名电话银行志愿者。
She's 33, living in Southeast Florida with her husband and her three-year-old son.
她今年 33 岁，与丈夫和三岁的儿子住在佛罗里达州东南部。
Your entry does not match our records.
您的输入与我们的记录不符。
Please enter your PIN, then pound.
请输入您的 PIN 码，然后点击。
She works in consulting.
她从事咨询工作。
And after work, she has 45 minutes to phone bank before her kid gets home.
下班后，她在孩子回家之前有 45 分钟的时间打电话给银行。
You are now connected.
您现在已连接。
Lina Misitzis Maria was born in Colombia, moved here when she was 16 with her parents.
Lina Misitzis Maria 出生于哥伦比亚，16 岁时随父母搬到这里。
She's a citizen now, and not a fan of the president.
她现在是公民，而不是总统的粉丝。
His comments against immigrants, against women-- I mean, I think almost every single position that he's taken and every comment that he's made is against what I believe and what I think this country stands for.
他针对移民、针对女性的言论——我的意思是，我认为他所采取的几乎每一个立场和他所做的每一条评论都违背了我的信念和我认为这个国家所代表的东西。
Maria did door knocking in 2016, and she's doing phone banking now.
玛丽亚于 2016 年上门拜访，现在从事电话银行业务。
I wanted her to compare them for me.
我想让她帮我比较一下。
And so I listened in while she phone banked.
所以我在她打电话银行时偷听。
In 45 minutes, she dialed 28 phone numbers.
45分钟内，她拨打了28个电话号码。
Hi, is this Angie?
嗨，这是安吉吗？
Operator At the tone, please record your message.
接线员 听到提示音后，请录制您的消息。
When you finish recording, you may--
完成录制后，您可以——
Nine of those 28 phone calls went to voicemail, which the Democrats mostly don't think it's worth it to leave messages after the beep.
这 28 个电话中有 9 个打到了语音信箱，民主党人大多认为在嘟嘟声后留下信息不值得。
One phone call, a toddler picked up.
一个电话，是一个小孩接的。
The kiddo seemed to put the phone down and walk away.
小家伙似乎放下电话就走开了。
Hello?
你好？
Lina Misitzis Some grownups didn't want to get into it either.
Lina Misitzis 有些大人也不想参与其中。
With who?
与谁？
Maria With the Democratic Party of Florida.
玛丽亚与佛罗里达州民主党。
All right, thank you.
好的，谢谢。
Lina Misitzis Of course, not everyone Maria spoke to favored her side.
莉娜·米西齐斯 当然，并不是所有与玛丽亚交谈过的人都支持她这一边。
I'm going to vote for Trump.
我要投票给特朗普。
Maria Oh, you will?
玛丽亚哦，你会吗？
Bye.
再见。
Lina Misitzis There were three calls like that.
莉娜·米西齐斯 (Lina Misitzis) 一共接到了三个这样的电话。
I don't think I want to vote for Sleepy Joe.
我想我不想投票给瞌睡乔。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I don't think he's worth being president.
我认为他不值得当总统。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Lina Misitzis The goal of these calls, it's not to persuade anyone.
Lina Misitzis 这些电话的目的不是说服任何人。
It's just to get Biden voters to vote.
只是为了让拜登选民投票。
And over a third of them, 11 people, were Biden supporters.
其中超过三分之一（11 人）是拜登的支持者。
Six of them said that they'd already mailed in their ballots.
其中六人表示他们已经寄出了选票。
And five of them hadn't.
其中五个人没有。
Well, it's only the first week of October.
好吧，这只是十月的第一周。
They don't vote until November 3rd.
他们直到 11 月 3 日才投票。
I thought maybe I could send it out at the end of the month.
我想也许我可以在月底把它发出来。
No, don't wait till the end of the month, because a lot of people are going to be mailing their ballots.
不，不要等到月底，因为很多人都会邮寄选票。
And the Postal Service is going to be overwhelmed with the ballots.
邮政服务将因选票而不堪重负。
So make sure you send it in sooner.
所以请确保尽快发送。
You don't want to have it delayed and not being counted.
您不想让它被延迟并且不被计算在内。
OK.
好的。
Maria Use black ink, sign the outside of the envelope, and mail it back quickly.
玛丽亚 用黑色墨水在信封外面签名，然后快速寄回。
OK.
好的。
Lina Misitzis Maria says that that one call, it made it feel worth her time that day.
莉娜·米西齐斯·玛丽亚 (Lina Misitzis Maria) 表示，那一个电话让她觉得那天的时间是值得的。
Because I think that was one more vote-- one vote that will be counted and wouldn't have been otherwise if I hadn't called him.
因为我认为这又是一张选票——一张将被计算在内的选票，如果我没有打电话给他，就不会被计算在内。
All right, have a good night.
好吧，祝你有个美好的夜晚。
Man 3 Bye.
男人3再见。
Bye.
再见。
Lina Misitzis So 45 minutes, one actual vote for her team, for her state.
Lina Misitzis 45 分钟，为她的团队、为她的州投了一张真正的票。
Though, also, four other Biden voters that she nudged towards mailing in their ballots.
不过，她还推动了另外四名拜登选民邮寄选票。
And how do these phone calls compare to door knocking?
这些电话与敲门相比如何？
Maria says in 2016, in terms of how many people she'd made direct contact with in a shift, door knocking and phone banking are about the same.
玛丽亚在 2016 年表示，就她在轮班中直接接触的人数而言，敲门和电话银行的方式大致相同。
But going door to door takes way more time.
但挨家挨户地走需要更多的时间。
Between going and grabbing the list and getting to the place and walking around and waiting-- someone's mom would open the door, and then we had to wait for the person that we were actually trying to reach to come over.
在去拿清单、到达目的地、四处走动和等待之间——某人的妈妈会打开门，然后我们必须等待我们真正想要联系的人过来。
What happened yesterday took 45 minutes, and then what you're-- like, a Saturday afternoon in 2016, it sounds like it would take a few hours.
昨天发生的事情花了 45 分钟，然后就像 2016 年的一个星期六下午，听起来需要几个小时。
There's been actual research on this, which shows that door knocking and phone banking are pretty close in terms of their effectiveness, with a slight edge towards door knocking, though calling people is faster.
对此进行了实际研究，结果表明，就有效性而言，敲门和电话银行非常接近，尽管打电话速度更快，但敲门方式略有优势。
So the question really is, how many phone calls are Democrats making for Biden in Florida, compared to doors knocked on in the past?
所以问题实际上是，与过去相比，民主党人在佛罗里达州给拜登打了多少电话？
I called around for numbers.
我四处打电话询问号码。
The closest I got was from the independent organization that coordinates a lot of the get-out-the-vote among Democrats in Florida.
我得到的最接近的消息来自一个独立组织，该组织负责协调佛罗里达州民主党人的大量投票活动。
They're called America Votes.
他们被称为“美国选票”。
They say when you count phone banking and door knocking and everything else that they do to reach voters, they've doubled the number of people they've had conversations with in Florida.
他们说，当你算上电话银行、上门拜访以及他们为接触选民所做的一切事情时，他们在佛罗里达州与他们交谈的人数增加了一倍。
It's 2 million this year versus 1 million or fewer in previous elections.
今年的人数为 200 万，而之前的选举人数为 100 万或更少。
But that number doesn't include the Democratic Party's own get-out-the-vote effort, which is an important part of the picture.
但这个数字不包括民主党自己的争取选票努力，这是整个图景的重要组成部分。
Party officials would not give me outreach numbers for this year or previous elections.
党的官员不会向我提供今年或之前选举的外展号码。
What they did do, instead, is say that everything is on track.
相反，他们所做的是说一切都步入正轨。
All of the Florida Democratic officials I talked to agreed on that.
我采访过的所有佛罗里达州民主党官员都同意这一点。
Here's Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
请听黛比·沃瑟曼·舒尔茨的报道。
She's Marji's congresswoman, and she used to chair the National Democratic Party.
她是玛吉的国会女议员，曾担任国家民主党主席。
I mean, at the moment, I can tell you that we lead.
我的意思是，目前，我可以告诉你，我们处于领先地位。
I mean, the proof is in the voting.
我的意思是，证据就在投票中。
Democrats lead Republicans in vote by mail by 360,000-plus vote by mail ballots being turned in.
在邮寄投票中，民主党以超过 36 万票的优势领先共和党。
That is just massive, massive increases.
这只是巨大的增长。
We are really lapping the field.
我们确实正在攻克这一领域。
And so what I say to nervous Democrats is, the proof is in the voting.
所以我要对紧张的民主党人说的是，证据就在投票中。
And we have to just keep people voting.
我们必须让人们投票。
It's true that more Democrats than Republicans have mailed in their ballots.
确实，邮寄选票的民主党人多于共和党人。
But that's kind of what you'd expect.
但这正是您所期望的。
COVID reactions have fallen along party lines, and way more Democrats asked for mail-in ballots than Republicans did.
各党派对新冠病毒的反应有所不同，要求邮寄选票的民主党人比共和党人多得多。
Of course, things could get completely reshuffled on Monday.
当然，周一事情可能会彻底重新洗牌。
That's when early in-person voting starts in Florida.
那是佛罗里达州开始提前亲自投票的时间。
Republicans could start showing up in droves.
共和党人可能会开始成群结队地出现。
I honestly think that there's nothing Debbie Wasserman Schultz or other party leaders could say that would reassure Marji or Julie or any of the nervous Democrats I talked to.
老实说，我认为黛比·沃瑟曼·舒尔茨或其他政党领导人无法说任何话可以让玛吉或朱莉或任何与我交谈过的紧张的民主党人放心。
Jeff Green, who also lives in Broward, he remembers, two years ago, how confidently they all headed into the governor's race.
同样住在布劳沃德的杰夫·格林（Jeff Green）记得，两年前，他们是多么自信地参加州长竞选。
It was the race that was supposed to show that a Democrat could win statewide office in Florida.
这场竞选本应表明民主党可以赢得佛罗里达州的全州职位。
So two years ago today, Andrew Gillum was up 9 points against Ron DeSantis in the governor's race.
两年前的今天，安德鲁·吉勒姆 (Andrew Gillum) 在州长竞选中领先罗恩·德桑蒂斯 (Ron DeSantis) 9 个百分点。
And all the Democrats were, ra, ra, ra, Gillum's going to win.
所有民主党人都说，吉勒姆会赢。
And of course, he didn't.
当然，他没有。
Looming even bigger, of course, is Hillary Clinton.
当然，影响力更大的还有希拉里·克林顿(Hillary Clinton)。
Every Democrat I talked to invoked Hillary Clinton.
我采访过的每一位民主党人都提到了希拉里·克林顿。
We all remember.
我们都记得。
We all remember what happened in 2016.
我们都记得2016年发生的事情。
We remember what happened in 2018.
我们还记得2018年发生的事情。
We remember all of it.
我们都记得这一切。
And so nobody trusts it anymore.
所以没有人再相信它了。
Fact is, most big elections in Florida in the last 10 years have been decided by about 1.1% of the vote.
事实上，过去10年佛罗里达州的大多数重大选举都是由大约1.1%的选票决定的。
Biden's ahead right now in the polls, but not by much.
拜登目前在民意调查中领先，但领先幅度不大。
And either candidate could win.
任何一位候选人都可能获胜。
So they're not wrong to be worried.
所以他们的担心并没有错。
Lina Misitzis is one of the producers of our show.
Lina Misitzis 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Coming up, fears of toys that come on without anybody touching them and other worries that have nothing at all to do with electoral politics, I promise.
我保证，接下来会出现对玩具在没有人触摸的情况下出现的恐惧以及其他与选举政治完全无关的担忧。
That is in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后，我们的节目仍在继续。
Act Two: Words Vs Fear Ira Glass It's This American Life.
第二幕：言语与恐惧 Ira Glass 这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, The Moment After This Moment.
今天的节目，这一刻之后的那一刻。
We have stories today of people who are worrying about a future that is on its way.
今天，我们有一些故事，讲述了人们对即将到来的未来感到担忧的故事。
We are now at Act 2 of our program.
我们现在处于计划的第二幕。
Act 2, Words Versus Fear.
第二幕，言语与恐惧。
So when you're scared about things that might happen, the most effective thing to do, of course, is to jump into action and see that things go your way, right?
因此，当你害怕可能发生的事情时，最有效的做法当然就是立即采取行动，让事情按照你的意愿发展，对吗？
To try to make things happen so that the worst does not occur.
努力让事情发生，以免最坏的情况发生。
But the truth is, that doesn't always do the job, right?
但事实是，这并不总是有效，对吧？
It doesn't always get rid of your fears.
它并不总能消除你的恐惧。
So then what do you do?
那么你该怎么办呢？
Well, years ago, we did a story about somebody who came up with this strategy.
嗯，几年前，我们做了一个关于提出这个策略的人的故事。
There were things that this guy was afraid of, things that put him on edge.
这个家伙害怕一些事情，一些让他紧张的事情。
And one day, he just decided to write them down, just to get them out of his system.
有一天，他决定把它们写下来，只是为了将它们从他的系统中剔除。
And so he started writing, numbering every fear, one after another.
于是他开始写作，将每一种恐惧逐一编号。
Quickly, it got to 10 fears, and then 20, and then 30 and 40 and 50, until he had 138 of them on paper.
很快，恐惧就变成了 10 种，然后是 20 种、30 种、40 种、50 种，直到他在纸上写下了 138 种恐惧。
The man's name is Michael Bernard Loggins.
这个人的名字叫迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯。
He was in his 50s at the time he did this.
他做这件事时已经 50 多岁了。
He's developmentally disabled.
他患有发育障碍。
He was living in San Francisco-- still does.
他当时住在旧金山——现在仍然如此。
And the arts program for adults where he did this, a place called Creativity Explored, published this writing as a little, handwritten, xeroxed zine called Fears of Your Life.
他从事这项工作的成人艺术项目，一个名为“创造力探索”的地方，将这篇文章出版为一本手写的复印小杂志，名为《对你生活的恐惧》。
And then a few years later, Michael found out there were more fears to tame by turning them into words, and he put out a part 2, a sequel, titled Fears of Your Life, a Whole Brand New One.
几年后，迈克尔发现有更多的恐惧可以通过将它们转化为语言来克服，他推出了第二部分，续集，题为“你生活中的恐惧，一个全新的恐惧”。
This one listed 45 fears.
这列出了 45 种恐惧。
Michael gave us permission to excerpt the two books.
迈克尔允许我们摘录这两本书。
And they're just this remarkable, wide-ranging, encyclopedic, Talmudic, memorable tour of human fears.
它们就是这次非凡的、范围广泛的、百科全书式的、塔木德式的、令人难忘的人类恐惧之旅。
And none of them have to do with politics.
而且它们都与政治无关。
And they seem worth going back to today.
他们今天似乎值得回顾。
Actor Tom Wright is our reader.
演员汤姆·赖特是我们的读者。
Fear of hospitals and needles.
对医院和针头的恐惧。
Fear of school and dentists.
害怕学校和牙医。
Fear of noises and bumps in the middle of the night.
害怕半夜的噪音和颠簸。
Fear of doors when they slams.
害怕关门时的感觉。
Fear of toys that come on by itself without anyone touching it.
害怕玩具在没有人触摸的情况下自行出现。
Fear of being caught with another woman after cheating on your wife.
害怕在欺骗你的妻子后被抓到与另一个女人在一起。
Fear of being in wrong places at the wrong time.
害怕在错误的时间出现在错误的地点。
Fear of dropping your soda as it hit the ground and fizz on you.
害怕苏打水掉到地上并在你身上发出嘶嘶声。
Fear of tall giraffe.
害怕高大的长颈鹿。
Fear of some birds.
害怕一些鸟。
Fear of being different.
害怕与众不同。
I fear that those TV people would take off my favorite cartoon, The Rugrats, off the air and wouldn't be able to watch them anymore for a long, long, long time.
我担心那些电视人会把我最喜欢的动画片《小小兵》停播，并且在很长、很长、很长的时间内都无法再观看它们。
Please let well enough alone.
请别管它。
Please don't take my Rugrats cartoon off the air because I love that cartoon.
请不要停止播放我的《小矮人》卡通片，因为我喜欢那部卡通片。
Let there be a possibility that life with the Rugrats stays put, means leave my Rugrats cartoon on TV, Michael said.
让与小矮人一起生活的可能性保持不变，意味着让我的小矮人动画片留在电视上，迈克尔说。
Fear if you put things that doesn't belongs in your ears, and you bust the drums that's are in your ears.
害怕如果你把不属于你的东西放进你的耳朵里，你就会敲响你耳朵里的鼓。
It liable to run you deaf, where you can't hear anything at all.
它很容易让你失聪，让你根本听不到任何声音。
You wouldn't be able to hear cars when they're coming at you.
当汽车向您驶来时，您将听不到汽车的声音。
That can be a frightening and very horrible situation to happen to you if you had an occurrence in real life, especially if you comes involved in it.
如果您在现实生活中发生过这种情况，尤其是当您参与其中时，这可能是一种令人恐惧且非常可怕的情况发生在您身上。
Can you get hit by cars if you can't hear them?
如果你听不到汽车的声音，你会被车撞吗？
Michael is afraid and frightening and fearful when Andrea Scheer goes away for a very, very, very long, long, long, long vacational trips in order to go traveling all over the world, almost like different places and different cities and countries to visit people in her own image and own language.
当安德里亚·谢尔去进行一次非常、非常、非常长、很长、很长、很长的假期旅行，以便去世界各地旅行，几乎就像不同的地方、不同的城市和国家，以她自己的形象和自己的语言拜访人们时，迈克尔感到害怕、害怕、害怕。
He afraid Andrea Scheer would come back to San Francisco, California with all different accents and won't be able to speak Michael's English, or not be able to understand his words that he's telling her, like "Merry Christmas."
他担心安德里亚·谢尔回到加利福尼亚州旧金山时会带着各种不同的口音，无法说迈克尔的英语，或者无法理解他告诉她的话，比如“圣诞快乐”。
I'm afraid and fearful that pigeons don't know right from wrong to not go out into the street.
我害怕，害怕鸽子不知道是非，不去街上。
They don't have the kind of memory as we humans does to know what to do and what shalt not do.
他们不像我们人类那样有记忆力，知道什么该做、什么不该做。
They must don't know the danger of their lives are being jeopardized.
他们肯定不知道自己的生命正受到威胁。
And they must don't know what can definitely happen to them to humans' knowledges and sense.
他们一定不知道人类的知识和感觉肯定会发生什么。
They land just anywhere they can find a land-on surface.
它们会在任何可以找到陆地表面的地方着陆。
Fear of sharks.
害怕鲨鱼。
Fear of giant man.
对巨人的恐惧。
Fear of gorilla.
害怕大猩猩。
Fear of Godzilla.
害怕哥斯拉。
Fear of tall woman.
害怕高个子女人。
Fear of killer whales.
对虎鲸的恐惧。
Fear of dinosaurs bird.
害怕恐龙鸟。
Fear of invisible man.
害怕看不见的人。
Fear of blob.
害怕斑点。
Fear that if I go into the library and I happens to get, like, seven or eight books, and I happens to find a place in the library, that I would get a lot of comfortable and begin reading in those seven or eight books, but one book at a time, and I start to read, and somehow, my voice and mind start to get from low to high and thinking that there weren't anyone elses reading theirs.
担心如果我走进图书馆，碰巧拿到七八本书，然后我碰巧在图书馆找到了一个地方，我会感到很舒服，开始阅读那七八本书，但一次读一本书，然后我开始阅读，不知何故，我的声音和思想开始从低到高，并认为没有其他人在读他们的书。
And I look over and the people in the library and I get fearful, and I'll say, "Oops, sorry."
我环顾图书馆里的人，我感到害怕，我会说，“哎呀，对不起。”
If your friends are people that you are with and you hear them making decision about what they decided that they are going to steal expensive and very valuable merchandise out of the department stores and don't care less, you say, "I am out of here.
如果你的朋友和你在一起，你听到他们做出决定，他们决定从百货商店偷走昂贵且非常有价值的商品，并且不在乎，你会说，“我要离开这里。
Bye bye.
再见。
I'm not getting caught in your crazy schemes.
我不会陷入你疯狂的计划中。
I'm not your stealer partner.
我不是你的偷窃伙伴。
I'm just your friend.
我只是你的朋友。
It's going to trouble, and it's on your head, not mine.
会有麻烦的，而且是你的责任，而不是我的责任。
I'm not going to participate in stealing with you, so leave me out of your crazy schemes, especially if it involve Oreo cookies and other stuff, hot stuff." Fear of me getting in trouble just as well.
我不会和你一起偷东西，所以不要让我参与你的疯狂计划，特别是如果它涉及奥利奥饼干和其他东西，热门的东西。”也怕我惹上麻烦。
It's very scary and fearfully to be sleeping in your bed in the middle of the night whenever there is a telephone right beside the bed on your left near the door you once enter and exit out.
半夜睡在床上，只要你左边的床边靠近你进出的门有一部电话，那是非常可怕和可怕的。
You are sleeping.
你正在睡觉。
The telephone rang and scare the living life out of you in the middle of the night.
半夜里电话铃响了，把你吓得魂飞魄散。
Who is this calling at this hour of the night?
大晚上的这个时候，是谁打来的电话？
Fear of a blasted music on the radio when you are not aware that the volume is turned up.
当您没有意识到音量已调高时，担心收音机里播放着刺耳的音乐。
Fear of rolling downhill backwards.
害怕向后滚下坡。
Fear of foghorn.
害怕雾号。
Fear of getting hugged by somebody you don't like.
害怕被不喜欢的人拥抱。
There's Los Angeles fears.
洛杉矶有恐惧。
Fear of getting hit over the head when you carry lots of dough with you, or bucks.
当您携带大量面团或美元时，担心头部会被击中。
Fear is like this.
恐惧就是这样的。
Someone like a woman that you grab ahold of her hand in going down the escalator, when of a sudden, you happens to be holding a stranger hand, not realizing that she isn't your mother, is scary.
像一个女人这样的人，你在下自动扶梯时抓住她的手，突然间，你碰巧握着一只陌生人的手，没有意识到她不是你的母亲，这是可怕的。
Fear that if you put too much of toilet paper in the toilet bowl, it will run over and get all over the floor and on you and on someone else, too.
担心如果你在马桶里放了太多卫生纸，它会流到地板上，弄脏你和其他人的身上。
It would leak from upstairs to the next floor below.
它会从楼上泄漏到下面的下一层。
I am afraid someday I liable to get lost inside Children's Hospital if I'm not all so familiar with that place yet.
如果我对儿童医院还不太熟悉的话，我担心有一天我可能会在儿童医院里迷路。
It's going to take some time to get used to it.
需要一些时间来适应它。
Fearfully of that great, big, humongous Children's Hospital there ever would be to Michael's knowledge.
迈克尔所知道的那座巨大的儿童医院令人恐惧。
Good that Michael's sister is driving him up there on Tuesday, January 15, 2002.
好在 2002 年 1 月 15 日星期二，迈克尔的姐姐开车送他去那里。
Even though she's with him, she can easily get lost, too.
即使她和他在一起，她也很容易迷路。
Bad situation to tangled up in, especially if you that person has an appointment at 10:45 AM in the morning.
纠缠在一起的情况很糟糕，尤其是如果你那个人有上午 10:45 的约会。
Michael Bernard Loggins does.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯确实如此。
Michael fear that if his teacher Francis doesn't put away Michael's Top Ramen noodles up in the desk drawer, that Douglas will see it and he'll liable to want to take it.
迈克尔担心，如果他的老师弗朗西斯不把迈克尔的顶级拉面收起来放在书桌抽屉里，道格拉斯会看到它，他很可能会想要拿走它。
And he'll happen to eat up Michael Bernard Loggins' noodles himself.
他自己也会碰巧吃掉迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯的面条。
And Michael Bernard Loggins would be out of luck, but he would have to go home tonight and bring back to school another pack of noodles to eat himself, so that wouldn't ever, ever happened with that Douglas eat up noodle story.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯就不太走运了，但他今晚必须回家，再带一包面条回学校自己吃，这样道格拉斯吃面条的故事就永远不会发生。
It would be very fearful if I reached up on top shelf trying to reach for a nice, thicker-covered dictionary book and not ask for help from someone, and the books come off the shelf and make lots of noises, and the people gets angry at me and don't understand that I had want help, but I were afraid to ask for it.
如果我伸手到最上面的架子上，试图拿一本漂亮的、厚厚的字典书，而不向别人寻求帮助，结果书从架子上掉下来，发出很大的噪音，人们会对我生气，不明白我需要帮助，但我不敢开口寻求帮助，那将是非常可怕的。
And they'd be a jerk or a creep, as Hope tells me.
正如霍普告诉我的那样，他们会是个混蛋或怪人。
And people say that I'll have to pay for the shelf, and I get in lots of trouble behind it, says Michael.
人们说我必须为架子付钱，这让我遇到了很多麻烦，”迈克尔说。
Fear of being with a friend that you have recently met start to take you places with him, and you doesn't know him all that well.
对与你最近认识的朋友在一起的恐惧开始占据你与他相处的位置，而且你对他也不太了解。
You didn't know that he were going to bring you fear and lots of trouble your way.
你不知道他会给你带来恐惧和很多麻烦。
Someone you doesn't know all that well starts to carry you in this store to buy you and him something to eat and drink.
一个你不太熟悉的人开始带着你到这家商店给你和他买一些吃的和喝的。
And all of a sudden, something very fishy starts to happen.
突然间，一些非常可疑的事情开始发生。
Like for instance, your friend that you are with could be up to trouble, and whoever with him could be heading in for trouble as well, especially if a friend of yours could be bringing you trouble by stealing a big package of Oreo cookie.
举例来说，和你在一起的朋友可能会遇到麻烦，而和他在一起的任何人也可能会遇到麻烦，特别是如果你的一个朋友可能因为偷了一大包奥利奥饼干而给你带来麻烦。
People are fearful of me, which I wonder, is they think I'm all that terrible?
人们都害怕我，我想知道，他们认为我有那么可怕吗？
Or I'm thinking that they think I'm not human at all.
或者我认为他们认为我根本就不是人类。
Because when they sit next to me, then they get back up and move away from me.
因为当他们坐在我旁边时，他们就会站起来并远离我。
I may be a stranger, but that doesn't make me a created monster or something like that.
我可能是一个陌生人，但这并不意味着我是一个被创造的怪物或类似的东西。
People aren't humans.
人不是人。
They act like ignorance dogs with their tail in back of their legs or in between their middle bodies, their legs.
他们的行为就像无知的狗一样，尾巴放在腿后面或中间身体、腿之间。
They don't think whose feeling they hurt at all.
他们根本不认为自己伤害了谁的感情。
They just do it, no consideration for whatsoever.
他们只是这么做，没有考虑任何事情。
People don't think about how they hurt my feelings or don't give a hoot.
人们不会考虑他们如何伤害了我的感情，也不会关心我。
They don't give a crap.
他们才不在乎呢。
Fear of you never knowing you were going to lose your mother is very sad and scary experience you have to face and learn from.
害怕你永远不知道你将失去你的母亲是你必须面对和学习的非常悲伤和可怕的经历。
And you wonder why she has to die.
你想知道为什么她必须死。
I love her.
我爱她。
And I had loved her once while she were alive, especially if she was the mother that raised you and the others through birth.
当她还活着的时候，我曾经爱过她，尤其是她是抚养你和其他人出生的母亲。
And you only wish that you could have done all you can to help save her life.
你只希望你能尽你所能来帮助挽救她的生命。
There going to be a worst times and hard times for Michael Bernard Loggins, and his sisters and brothers, too, especially when Mother's Day comes.
对于迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯和他的兄弟姐妹来说，尤其是在母亲节到来的时候，将会经历最糟糕的时期和艰难的时期。
Afraid this is the last thing that ever occurred to me.
恐怕这是我想到的最后一件事。
Excerpts from Michael Bernard Loggins' two xeroxed zines, Fears of Your Life, Parts 1 and 2 read for us by actor Tom Wright.
演员汤姆·怀特 (Tom Wright) 为我们朗读了迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯 (Michael Bernard Loggins) 复印的两本杂志《对生活的恐惧》(Fears of Your Life) 第 1 部分和第 2 部分的摘录。
To get your own copy of these amazing books or to find out more about the arts program where they were made, you can visit the website of Creativity Explored.
要获取这些精彩书籍的副本或了解有关制作这些书籍的艺术项目的更多信息，您可以访问创意探索网站。
That's creativityexplored.org.
那是creativeexplored.org。
[MUSIC - "HEAVY THINGS" BY BRETT NEWSKI]
[音乐 - 布雷特·纽斯基的“重物”]
Act Three: Best Laid Plans Ira Glass Act 3, The Best Laid Plans.
第三幕：最佳计划 Ira Glass 第三幕，最佳计划。
So today's program is about people worrying about the future.
所以今天的节目是关于人们对未来的担忧。
And we thought for a change of pace, we would do this next story about people who are not worried enough about it.
我们想改变一下节奏，我们会做下一个关于那些对此不够担心的人的故事。
This is another story from our archive.
这是我们档案中的另一个故事。
It is a particular favorite.
这是一个特别喜欢的。
It is about this couple and the future they kind of cheerfully threw themselves towards.
这是关于这对夫妇以及他们愉快地投身于未来的故事。
And after that, everything that happens to him, it's like a hand grenade they bring into their own home, pull the pin, and then wait to see what is next.
在那之后，发生在他身上的一切，就像他们把一枚手榴弹带进自己的家，拉动销钉，然后等着看接下来会发生什么。
And one important thing about all of this is, is that when they did this, the kind of couple they were was a really great couple.
所有这一切的一个重要的事情是，当他们这样做时，他们是一对非常好的夫妻。
We were always, like, the most solid of all relationships of our friends and everything like that.
我们一直是所有朋友关系中最牢固的，诸如此类。
Kurt Braunohler met his girlfriend on the third day of college.
科特·布劳诺勒在大学第三天遇到了他的女朋友。
And in all of the ways that we think of what makes for a good relationship, I think that they were doing better than you or me or most people.
在我们思考如何建立良好关系的所有方面，我认为他们都比你、我或大多数人做得更好。
They had a lot of fun together.
他们在一起玩得很开心。
They could talk about anything.
他们可以谈论任何事情。
They didn't really fight.
他们并没有真正打架。
Happy sex life.
快乐的性生活。
We really just got along very well together.
我们真的相处得很好。
We traveled well together.
我们一起旅行得很开心。
We were always the kind of-- we were the place that friends would come when they are having hard times, and they would stay with us.
我们总是这样的——朋友们遇到困难时会来我们这里，他们会和我们在一起。
And we were kind of-- it felt, like, very adult.
我们有点——感觉非常成熟。
When even when I was 23, I felt like I'm kind of married, even though neither of us had ever, ever discussed getting married.
甚至在我23岁的时候，我就觉得我已经结婚了，尽管我们俩从来没有讨论过结婚的事。
So what happened?
那么发生了什么？
Kurt Braunohler Well, after we had both turned 30, one day I just kind of was thinking about why we had never talked about getting married.
库尔特·布劳诺勒 (Kurt Braunohler) 嗯，在我们都年满 30 岁之后，有一天我在思考为什么我们从未谈论过结婚。
We had never, ever talked about it seriously or otherwise.
我们从来没有认真或以其他方式谈论过它。
And whenever anyone would ask us, we would always just kind of brush it off and say, oh, we'll get married when we have kids.
每当有人问我们时，我们总是会不屑一顾并说，哦，我们有了孩子就结婚。
That's what we'd always say.
这就是我们常说的。
And I remember we were sitting in the living room, and it was October.
我记得我们坐在客厅里，那是十月。
And I had just said, hey, I want to talk.
我刚刚说，嘿，我想谈谈。
And I said, why do you think we haven't gotten married yet or even talked about it?
我说，你认为我们为什么还没有结婚，甚至没有谈论过这件事？
And she just kind of looked at me and thought for a second.
她只是看着我，想了一会儿。
And then she said, well, I think that before we get married, we should probably sleep with other people.
然后她说，好吧，我认为在我们结婚之前，我们应该和其他人睡。
And you would imagine that that would come as a huge shock to me-- like, hit me hard.
你会想象这会给我带来巨大的震惊——就像，对我的打击很大。
But for some reason, it kind of-- it made sense to me.
但出于某种原因，这对我来说是有道理的。
I kind of was like, OK, very calmly.
我有点想，好吧，非常平静。
And I guess the reason--
我猜原因是——
I've thought a lot about this, and I think that there's a few reasons.
我想了很多，我认为有几个原因。
We both had this kind of arrogant notion of our relationship-- that it could survive literally anything.
我们对我们的关系都有一种傲慢的观念——它可以经受住任何事情。
That we had been together-- we had known each other our whole adult lives.
我们一直在一起——我们在整个成年生活中都认识彼此。
We were each other's worlds.
我们是彼此的世界。
So really, I don't think we thought that we could destroy this thing.
所以说真的，我认为我们不认为我们可以摧毁这个东西。
I talked to the girlfriend who did not want to come on the radio.
我和不想上广播的女朋友谈过。
And she said basically she'd only had two boyfriends in her life-- her high school boyfriend, who was not a good boyfriend at all, and Kurt, who was great.
她说她一生中基本上只有两个男朋友——一个是她高中时的男朋友，他根本不是一个好男朋友，另一个是科特，他很棒。
But she met Kurt, she said, when she was 17.
但她说，当她 17 岁时，她遇到了科特。
She was 30 when this happened.
这件事发生时她已经30岁了。
And she said that she felt like maybe she missed out on something in her 20s, experiences that other people had.
她说她觉得自己可能错过了20多岁时的一些事情，错过了其他人所拥有的经历。
And she didn't want to regret that.
她不想后悔。
A warning-- I should say, before we go any further in this story, we're going to acknowledge the existence of sex between adults.
警告——我应该说，在我们进一步讲述这个故事之前，我们要承认成年人之间性的存在。
Nothing explicit.
没有什么明确的。
Anyway, so they sat on the couch, and they talked this through.
不管怎样，他们坐在沙发上，讨论了这个问题。
The next part of that conversation was the logistics.
谈话的下一部分是后勤工作。
Do we break up?
我们分手吗？
Do I move out?
我要搬出去吗？
Do we just do this while we're living in the same house together?
我们只是在住在同一所房子里时才这样做吗？
And we kind of came up with this idea of borrowing this Amish concept called Rumspringa.
我们想出了一个想法，借用阿米什人的概念，称为 Rumspringa。
And Rumspringa, in the Amish world, is when you're 16, you're allowed to be not Amish for two years.
在阿米什人的世界里，Rumspringa 是指当你年满 16 岁时，你可以在两年内不成为阿米什人。
And then when you turn 18, you decide whether or not you come back to the fold.
然后当你年满 18 岁时，你就可以决定是否重返职场。
Right.
正确的。
And during those two years, kids get drunk.
在那两年里，孩子们喝醉了。
They sleep around.
他们睡在周围。
They try drugs.
他们尝试吸毒。
They do lots of meth.
他们吸食大量冰毒。
Ira Glass They do lots of stuff.
Ira Glass 他们做了很多事情。
So we were going to have-- we decided to have a Rumspringa from our relationship.
所以我们决定从我们的关系中得到一个 Rumspringa。
And that's the other crazy thing, is that we decided that 30 days was enough.
另一件疯狂的事情是，我们认为 30 天就足够了。
Because probably within 30 days, sleeping with other people would get that all out of our system in 30 days.
因为可能在 30 天内，与其他人睡觉就会在 30 天内将所有这些都从我们的系统中清除。
And it turns out it's really difficult to all of a sudden become single at 31, when you've never been single for your entire life.
事实证明，在 31 岁的时候突然单身真的很难，因为你一生都没有单身过。
Because all of a sudden, I'm in New York City, and I'm single.
因为突然之间，我来到了纽约，而且我单身了。
And I essentially have the emotional tools of a 17-year-old boy.
我基本上拥有一个 17 岁男孩的情感工具。
Because the last time you dated was-- you were 17.
因为你上次约会是——你17岁。
The last time I dated, I was in a dorm room.
上次约会是在宿舍里。
Yeah.
是的。
Kurt Braunohler Also, it wasn't that I was just-- it wasn't like I was single in New York City.
库尔特·布劳诺勒 (Kurt Braunohler) 另外，我并不是在纽约单身。
Because being single in New York City is, I think-- the majority of it is being just very lonely and being on your own, whereas this was very different.
我认为，因为在纽约单身，主要是因为非常孤独，独自一人，而这次则非常不同。
I was in a mara-- I was in a race.
我在马拉——我在参加一场比赛。
I was in a 30-day race to sleep with as many people as I possibly could.
我在 30 天的比赛中与尽可能多的人上床。
Because after 30 days, I was going to go back and then get married.
因为30天后，我要回去然后结婚。
So--
所以——
Every single-- it was almost to the minute where I'd just be like, if I wasn't out somewhere trying to meet someone, I was like, this is wasted time.
每一个——几乎到了我就会想，如果我没有出去某个地方试图见某人，我就想，这是浪费时间。
I am wasting my time right now.
我现在正在浪费时间。
And also because of the fact that we were both-- my girlfriend and I were both very competitive with each other, that we didn't speak during that 30 days.
也因为我们——我和我女朋友都非常争强好胜，所以我们在那 30 天里没有说话。
But I think in both of our minds, we had a competitive nature of being like, I need to sleep with more people than she does.
但我认为在我们俩的心里，我们都有一种竞争的本性，比如，我需要和比她更多的人上床。
And I think she felt the same way.
我想她也有同样的感觉。
That's true.
这是真的。
She did feel that way.
她确实有这样的感觉。
I asked her.
我问她。
So before they started the Rumspringa, they took a last romantic trip together to New Orleans over New Year's.
因此，在开始 Rumspringa 之前，他们在新年期间一起去新奥尔良进行了最后一次浪漫旅行。
And they had a great time.
他们玩得很开心。
And then on January 3, after they both cried a bit, Kurt moved out for a month.
1 月 3 日，他们都哭了一会儿后，科特搬出去住了一个月。
So suddenly single, 31, time clock ticking, where do you start, right?
突然单身，31岁，时钟滴答作响，你从哪里开始，对吧？
Well, Kurt called this woman that he knew just a little bit and had a date on the very first or second night.
好吧，库尔特打电话给这个他只认识一点的女人，并在第一或第二天晚上就约会了。
He can't remember which it was.
他不记得那是什么了。
And at dinner, he told her the entire situation.
晚饭的时候，他把整个情况告诉了她。
He laid the whole thing out that he was seeing somebody.
他把整个事情都说出来了，他正在和某人约会。
They were taking this break to sleep around.
他们利用这个休息时间到处睡觉。
And this was a rule that he made for himself, that he was always going to be honest with any woman that he met during this month.
这是他为自己制定的一条规则，他永远要对这个月遇到的任何女人诚实。
He was going to be honest upfront.
他会先说实话。
And that's the weird thing.
这就是奇怪的事情。
That's the thing that I still kind of, when I think back on this time, that I don't understand.
当我回想这段时间时，我仍然有点不明白这一点。
I don't understand how these women that I met during that time heard this story and were like OK, let's continue with this date.
我不明白我在那段时间遇到的这些女人是如何听到这个故事并说好的，让我们继续这个约会。
Well, what would they say?
好吧，他们会说什么？
Kurt Braunohler I think most of them-- the overwhelming response was like, wow?
库尔特·布劳诺勒 (Kurt Braunohler) 我想他们中的大多数人——压倒性的反应是，哇？
And I can't believe you're telling me this.
我不敢相信你会告诉我这些。
Kurt was staying on a futon on a friend's living room floor for the month in this apartment where there was no door between the living room and the bedroom where his friend was sleeping.
库尔特在这间公寓的朋友客厅地板上的蒲团上住了一个月，客厅和他朋友睡觉的卧室之间没有门。
And he brought this woman back on the first date, and they made out a little bit.
第一次约会时他就带了这个女人回来，他们亲热了一下。
And then they set another date.
然后他们又定了一个日期。
I think it was probably for the next night or the night after, something like that.
我想这可能是为了第二天晚上或后天晚上，类似的事情。
And what happens?
会发生什么？
Kurt Braunohler What do you mean?
库尔特·布劳诺勒 你什么意思？
What happens on the date?
约会时会发生什么？
I guess I mean, do you sleep with her?
我想我的意思是，你和她一起睡吗？
Since the whole point of this story is you're trying to sleep with women.
因为这个故事的重点是你想和女人上床。
Yes, yes, yes.
是的，是的，是的。
Ira Glass I mean, suddenly I felt very modest about asking, but yeah, no, did you--
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）我的意思是，突然间我对提问感到非常谦虚，但是，是的，不，你是不是——
[LAUGHTER] Kurt Braunohler Yes, we ended up sleeping together.
[笑声] Kurt Braunohler 是的，我们最终睡在一起了。
Yeah.
是的。
Kurt Braunohler Yeah.
库尔特·布劳诺勒 是的。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
It was-- yeah, it totally turned my head around.
是的，它完全改变了我的想法。
It really did feel like having experiences I would imagine I would have had as a teenager, where sex was this very powerful thing, and it kind of overwhelmed you.
这确实感觉就像是我想象中的青少年时期的经历，性是一种非常强大的东西，它让你不知所措。
A day or two after that, he picks up a woman at a bar, something he had never done before in his life, and he goes home with her.
一两天后，他在酒吧遇见了一个女人，这是他一生中从未做过的事情，然后他和她一起回家了。
And from there, he's off and running.
从那里开始，他就开始奔跑。
But remember, he has the emotional tools of a 17-year-old.
但请记住，他拥有 17 岁孩子的情感工具。
I was emotionally getting involved with these women.
我在情感上与这些女人打交道。
And that was against one of our rules that we had come up with.
这违反了我们制定的一项规则。
My girlfriend and I had had a rule saying, no relationships.
我和我女朋友有一个规矩，就是不许恋爱。
We don't get into relationships with people.
我们不与人建立关系。
We're just going to go out and sleep with people to see what it's like.
我们只是要出去和人们一起睡觉，看看那是什么样子。
Oh, I see.
我懂了。
And then-- but you didn't actually know how to just go out and sleep with somebody without getting emotionally involved.
然后——但你实际上不知道如何在不涉及情感的情况下出去和某人睡觉。
Not at all.
一点也不。
I mean, the first date I went on, I immediately was head over heels for her.
我的意思是，我第一次约会时，我立刻就为她着迷。
And I knew her for six hours.
我认识她六个小时了。
And I didn't know how to date.
而且我不知道如何约会。
I didn't know how to date casually.
我不知道如何随意约会。
So what I really was doing was just getting involved-- I was acting like a person who had been in a 13-year relationship with these women that I had just met.
所以我真正做的就是参与其中——我表现得就像一个与我刚刚认识的这些女性已经有 13 年关系的人。
Immediately holding hands.
立刻牵着手。
I remember that my impulse would be to say "I love you" during sex.
我记得我的冲动是在做爱时说“我爱你”。
[LAUGHS] That would be my impulse, because that's the only way I was used to having sex.
[笑]那是我的冲动，因为这是我习惯做爱的唯一方式。
And I remember the first time that I did end up having sex, I started to say "I love you," and then just kind of swallowed it and made it seem like I was coughing.
我记得我第一次做爱时，我开始说“我爱你”，然后就咽了下去，让我看起来像是在咳嗽。
[LAUGHS] And that didn't happen just once.
[笑]而且这种事不止发生过一次。
Kurt says it was just a month of incredibly intense feelings.
库尔特说，这只是一个充满令人难以置信的强烈感受的一个月。
He'd feel this crazy elation, or he would find himself walking down the street weeping.
他会感受到这种疯狂的喜悦，或者他会发现自己在街上哭泣。
The girlfriend told me that she, meanwhile, was having escapades of her own.
女朋友告诉我，与此同时，她也有自己的越轨行为。
She'd be out all night, drinking and dancing, going to exclusive clubs with Mexican high rollers, doing crazy things with European tourists.
她整晚都在外面喝酒跳舞，和墨西哥豪赌客一起去高级俱乐部，和欧洲游客一起做疯狂的事情。
It was just what she wanted, actually.
其实这正是她想要的。
And both of them told me that the weirdest thing about that time was that the person that they wanted to talk to most about what was going on and share it with was each other.
他们俩都告诉我，那段时间最奇怪的事情是，他们最想谈论正在发生的事情并与之分享的人是彼此。
But of course, they weren't speaking.
但当然，他们没有说话。
Kurt says that one of the most amazing things to him that was kind of a revelation during that time was something-- I've never actually heard anybody talk about it aloud, but I totally related to this-- was how quickly he would find himself in the home of a complete stranger.
库尔特说，那段时间对他来说最令人惊奇的事情之一是一种启示——我从来没有真正听到有人大声谈论过这件事，但我完全与此相关——就是他很快就会发现自己身处一个完全陌生的家里。
Yeah, I'd never gotten to see other people's apartments so much.
是的，我从来没有这么频繁地参观过别人的公寓。
That's what I kind of was fascinated by, was getting to see all these different people's apartments and seeing how everyone lives.
这就是我所着迷的，我看到了所有这些不同人的公寓，看到了每个人的生活方式。
And I love that.
我喜欢这样。
I love that part of it so much.
我非常喜欢这一部分。
You know, I was like, look at this.
你知道，我当时想，看看这个。
I'm seeing-- this is all your stuff.
我明白了——这都是你的东西。
This is the stuff you keep on your bedside table.
这是你放在床头柜上的东西。
And also having really weird experiences I never had before, like of women picking me up.
还有我以前从未有过的非常奇怪的经历，比如女人来接我。
I never experienced that before.
我以前从未经历过这种情况。
I was so confused because it was a bartender.
我很困惑，因为那是一个调酒师。
She was a bartender, so she just kept giving me free drinks.
她是一名调酒师，所以她一直给我免费饮料。
And I was like, why is this person-- why is she giving me all these free drinks?
我当时就想，为什么这个人——为什么她要给我这么多免费饮料？
But it is fascinating to see, if you stay at the bar until 4:00 in the morning, and then all of a sudden-- I'd never been aware of it before, but then I started looking around me, like, oh, all these people are pairing off.
但如果你在酒吧呆到凌晨 4:00，然后突然间——我以前从未意识到这一点，但随后我开始环顾四周，就像，哦，所有这些人都成对出现了。
Look at how this happens.
看看这是如何发生的。
I'd never been-- I've been at bars until 4:00 in the morning, but I was always-- it's all of a sudden uncovering this whole level of single life in New York City that I just had not been aware of before.
我从来没有去过——我一直在酒吧待到凌晨 4:00，但我总是——突然之间，我发现了纽约市单身生活的整个水平，而我之前并没有意识到这一点。
Anyone in New York City, I feel like, can have sex any night of the week if they just followed two rules, which is stay at the bar until 4:00 in the morning and dramatically lower your standards.
我觉得纽约市的任何人都可以在一周的任何晚上发生性行为，只要他们遵循两条规则，那就是在酒吧呆到凌晨 4:00 并大幅降低你的标准。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
So after a month, Kurt and his girlfriend get together and talk.
一个月后，库尔特和他的女朋友聚在一起聊天。
And they agree that a month was not enough for this.
他们一致认为一个月是不够的。
They both said it was just obvious the experiment hadn't run its course.
他们都表示，很明显实验没有按计划进行。
They both wanted more time.
他们都想要更多时间。
So they decided on a second month, which then becomes the third month.
所以他们决定第二个月，然后成为第三个月。
And for Kurt, as time went on, it got harder and harder to stick with the rule that they had made of not getting into any relationships.
对于库尔特来说，随着时间的推移，遵守他们制定的不建立任何关系的规则变得越来越困难。
He was just muddling about how to figure out how to do that.
他只是在思考如何才能做到这一点。
In his head, he would think, like, when is something actually a relationship?
在他的脑海里，他会想，什么时候某件事才是真正的关系？
And I think in my head, I was like, three dates.
我想在我的脑海里，我就像是三个约会。
Three dates makes a relationship.
三次约会就建立了关系。
That's what I defined.
这就是我的定义。
And so then I would try to not see people for more than three times.
所以我会尽量不要见人超过三遍。
That was increasingly difficult.
这变得越来越困难。
It's difficult because he was giving women two opposite messages at the same time.
这很困难，因为他同时向女性传达了两种相反的信息。
He would tell them that he was just taking a month's break from his real relationship, and this isn't serious.
他会告诉他们，他只是从真正的关系中休息一个月，这并不严重。
But then he didn't hold back any of his feelings.
但随后他并没有压抑自己的感情。
What I felt like kept happening was that I would act like I wanted to be their boyfriend.
我感觉不断发生的事情是我表现得好像我想成为他们的男朋友。
And then after three dates, would just abruptly end it, with no explanation whatsoever.
然后在三次约会之后，就突然结束，没有任何解释。
And definitely people would yell at me and call me names.
人们肯定会对我大喊大叫并辱骂我。
And to this day, I feel horrible about that.
直到今天，我对此仍感到可怕。
Because I was just-- I was acting like a crazy person.
因为我只是——我表现得像个疯子。
I was acting like a person with absolutely no boundaries.
我表现得像一个完全没有界限的人。
So it was hard to stop himself while it was going on.
所以在这件事发生的过程中，自己很难停下来。
And when we talked about it, Kurt's best explanation for that was--
当我们谈论这个问题时，库尔特对此最好的解释是——
Well, I once had a-- when I had a dog-- when I was a kid, I had a dog.
嗯，我曾经养过——当我养狗的时候——当我还是个孩子的时候，我养过一只狗。
And one day, the cat knocked a five-pound bag of sugar off onto the floor.
有一天，猫把一袋五磅重的糖撞到了地板上。
And my dog was about nine pounds.
我的狗大约有九磅重。
He was a toy poodle.
他是一只玩具贵宾犬。
And he ate all five pounds of sugar in one day.
他一天就把五磅糖吃完了。
And then he was sick for, like, three days afterwards.
然后他病了大约三天。
But I always think about that, that day for him, how amazing that day must have been.
但我总是想，那一天对于他来说，那是多么美妙的一天。
You're eating all of that sugar and eating it, and then kind of going away from it for a little while and being like, I can't stop.
你吃掉所有的糖，然后吃掉它一段时间，然后就像，我无法停止。
When is this going to happen again?
这种事什么时候会再次发生？
And then he just started vomiting and vomiting for three straight days.
然后他就开始呕吐，连续呕吐三天。
And that's how I felt, you know?
这就是我的感受，你知道吗？
I knew this was bad, but I was like, when is this ever going to happen again?
我知道这很糟糕，但我想，这种事什么时候才能再次发生？
I asked Kurt's girlfriend if all this happened to her during the Rumspringa, too, if it was hard just to have sex without emotion entering into it at all.
我问库尔特的女朋友，这一切是否也发生在她的朗斯普林加节期间，是否很难在没有任何情感介入的情况下发生性行为。
And she said, absolutely not.
她说，绝对不是。
Quote, "You mean the dudes that I meet at bars or parties, whatever?
引用：“你是指我在酒吧或聚会上遇到的那些家伙？
Those people?" She said, I didn't tell anyone anything about my background or the situation.
那些人？”她说，我没有告诉任何人任何我的背景和情况。
And I asked her, wait, so you wouldn't explain, I'm on a break from a relationship?
我问她，等等，所以你不会解释，我正在脱离一段关系？
She said no, because it sounds crazy.
她说不，因为这听起来很疯狂。
I told her that Kurt would reveal all of that, which she knew.
我告诉她科特会透露所有这一切，她知道。
And she said, yeah, Kurt's way too open.
她说，是的，库尔特太开放了。
But, quote, "That openness probably just made him more appealing to the ladies."
但是，引用一下，“这种开放性可能只会让他对女士们更有吸引力。”
By the end of three months, Kurt started to fall for this woman that he met in Australia-- and this time, really, actually fell for her in a real way.
三个月后，库尔特开始爱上他在澳大利亚遇到的这个女人——这一次，真的，真正地爱上了她。
And this made him, of course, feel differently about his relationship with his girlfriend.
当然，这让他对自己和女友的关系有了不同的感觉。
So he flew back to the States, stayed at their old apartment, and because this is the most comfortable relationship that has ever existed between two people, of course, they dealt with it all right away, very straightforward.
于是他就飞回了美国，住在他们以前的公寓里，因为这是两个人之间最舒服的关系，所以他们当然马上就处理了，非常直接。
And we woke up in the morning, and we went and got brunch.
我们早上醒来，然后去吃早午餐。
And we brought it to the park, the way we'd always used to do on Saturdays.
我们把它带到公园，就像我们周六经常做的那样。
And we just sat in the park and talked.
我们只是坐在公园里聊天。
And we broke up.
我们分手了。
And that's the thing.
就是这样。
I can't point to something that was bad about our relationship, except for knowing that I feel like it had run its course.
我无法指出我们的关系有什么不好的地方，只是我知道我觉得事情已经走到了尽头。
I mean, we organically got to the point where we both thought this was a good idea.
我的意思是，我们有机地达到了我们都认为这是一个好主意的地步。
This-- the Rumspringa?
这个——Rumspringa？
Kurt Braunohler It's almost like the relationship had an expiration date, but we didn't know about it.
库尔特·布劳诺勒（Kurt Braunohler）：这段关系几乎就像有一个到期日，但我们并不知道。
And then all of a sudden, we came up with this really complicated, crazy plan to put the test down at the right place where it would break.
然后突然间，我们想出了这个非常复杂、疯狂的计划，将测试放在它会崩溃的正确位置。
And it broke.
它坏了。
His old girlfriend said something similar.
他的前女友也说过类似的话。
She said she'd probably wanted out of the relationship before the Rumspringa, but she was too scared to admit it to herself.
她说她可能想在朗斯普林加之前就结束这段关系，但她太害怕了，不敢向自己承认这一点。
The Rumspringa gave them a way to break up.
拉姆斯普林加给了他们分手的机会。
Kurt says he would not want to do a Rumspringa again, but he came out of this experience believing that it is important to force things to a decision with someone, and that it's healthy for any relationship to be evaluated now and then.
库尔特说他不想再做一次拉姆斯普林加，但从这次经历中他相信，强迫某人做出决定是很重要的，而且时不时地评估任何关系都是健康的。
I do have a theory now.
我现在确实有一个理论。
I do have a theory about if I do get married in the future, what I think I would want to do is have an agreement that at the end of seven years, we have to get remarried in order for the marriage to continue.
我确实有一个理论，如果我将来结婚，我想我想做的是达成协议，在七年后，我们必须再婚，以便婚姻能够继续。
But at the end of seven years, it ends.
但七年后，一切就结束了。
And we can agree to get remarried or not get remarried.
我们可以同意再婚或不再婚。
Why?
为什么？
Kurt Braunohler Because then I think you get to choose.
库尔特·布劳诺勒 因为那时我认为你可以选择。
And I think it makes the relationship-- would make the relationship stronger.
我认为这会让这种关系变得更加牢固。
I don't know what I think of that, because I think, actually, one of the things that's a comfort in marriage is that there isn't a door at seven years.
我不知道我对此有何看法，因为我认为，实际上，婚姻中令人安慰的事情之一就是七年没有门。
And so if something is messed up in the short term, there's the comfort of knowing like, well, we made this commitment.
因此，如果短期内出现问题，知道我们做出了这一承诺就会感到安慰。
And so we're just going to work this out.
所以我们要解决这个问题。
And even if tonight we're not getting along, or there's something between us doesn't feel right, you have the comfort of knowing, we've got time.
即使今晚我们相处得不好，或者我们之间感觉有些不对劲，你也可以放心地知道，我们还有时间。
We're going to figure this out.
我们会解决这个问题。
And that makes it so much easier.
这使得事情变得更加容易。
Because you do that through times when you hate each other's guts.
因为当你们互相憎恨的时候，你就会这样做。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Of course you do, yeah.
你当然知道，是的。
Ira Glass And the no-escape clause, weirdly, is a bigger comfort to being married than I ever would have thought before I got married.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 奇怪的是，不可逃避条款对结婚来说比我结婚前想象的更大的安慰。
I had never thought of it that way.
我从来没有这样想过。
I like thinking about it that way.
我喜欢这样思考。
You just see so many examples of where people don't think that way.
你会看到很多人们不这么想的例子。
But Kurt and his girlfriend feel like the Rumspringa got them where they needed to go as a couple, even if that place was different than they intended when they began the whole thing.
但库尔特和他的女朋友觉得拉姆斯普林加让他们作为情侣到达了他们需要去的地方，即使那个地方与他们开始整件事时的预期不同。
Sometimes what you need to do next as a couple, you can't even tell what it should be.
有时，作为夫妻，你们下一步需要做什么，您甚至不知道应该做什么。
And the best you can do is hold your breath, make a guess, and jump.
你能做的最好的事情就是屏住呼吸，猜测一下，然后跳下去。
Well, these days, Kurt Braunohler is the host of a podcast called Bananas, and he virtually hosts the long-running variety show with Kristen Schaal, Hot Tub with Kurt and Kristen, Mondays on Twitch.
如今，库尔特·布劳诺勒 (Kurt Braunohler) 是播客《Bananas》的主持人，他实际上还与克里斯汀·沙尔 (Kristen Schaal) 一起主持了长期播出的综艺节目《库尔特和克里斯汀的热水浴缸》(Hot Tub with Kurt and Kristen)，每周一在 Twitch 上播出。
So that story is a few years old.
所以这个故事已经有几年了。
And I could probably say a lot about the things that Kurt and I talk about at the end, but I will leave it at this-- these days, Kurt is married, and I'm not.
关于科特和我最后谈论的事情，我可能可以说很多，但我就到此为止吧——这些天，科特结婚了，而我没有。
Act Four: Potus Operandi Ira Glass Act 4, POTUS Operandi.
第四幕：总统行动 Ira Glass 第 4 幕，总统行动。
OK, I'll say it.
好吧，我就说吧。
I believe that children are our future.
我相信孩子是我们的未来。
And I believe that worries for our children and their future are probably the most common worries out there.
我相信，对我们的孩子及其未来的担忧可能是最常见的担忧。
Humanity's number one worry category, top of the charts, our survey says can't be beat, generation after generation.
我们的调查显示，这是人类头号忧虑类别，高居榜首，一代又一代无法被击败。
But there's a whole other class of thoughts about our kids' futures that are less-- I don't know.
但对于我们孩子的未来，还有另外一类想法——我不知道。
They're not worry, exactly.
确切地说，他们并不担心。
They're more just like curiosity.
它们更像是好奇心。
10 years ago, one of our producers back then, Jonathan Menjivar, talked about both those feelings, the curiosity and the worry, on our show.
10 年前，我们当时的一位制片人 Jonathan Menjivar 在我们的节目中谈到了这些感受：好奇和担忧。
POTUS will have dark wavy hair.
总统将有一头深色卷发。
Her eyes will be brown, unless they're green, or maybe hazel.
她的眼睛将是棕色的，除非它们是绿色的，或者可能是淡褐色的。
She will have full lips.
她将拥有丰满的嘴唇。
She will not be tall, which is a nice way of saying that she might be short.
她不会很高，这是一个很好的说法，她可能很矮。
Because of this fact, POTUS will not like going to concerts because, like my wife Hillary, she'll only be able to see the backs of other people's heads and that spot on a person's back between their shoulder blades.
正因为如此，美国总统不会喜欢去音乐会，因为就像我的妻子希拉里一样，她只能看到其他人的后脑勺以及一个人背部肩胛骨之间的那个位置。
Someday when she touches that spot on a person she loves, it will feel oddly familiar and comforting.
有一天，当她触碰她所爱的人身上的那个部位时，她会感到奇怪的熟悉和安慰。
Because all her life, while standing in line at the swings or waiting for a cashier to ring up her milk, she will have looked at that spot on other people.
因为在她的一生中，当她在秋千上排队或等待收银员给她的牛奶打电话时，她都会看着其他人的那个地方。
Because she will be our daughter, POTUS will like chocolate ice cream and enjoy puns.
因为她将成为我们的女儿，美国总统会喜欢巧克力冰淇淋并喜欢双关语。
She will need glasses by third grade.
到三年级时她就需要戴眼镜了。
POTUS, I should explain, is what Hillary and I have taken to calling the little girl Hillary will give birth to in 2010.
我要解释一下，POTUS 是希拉里和我对希拉里将在 2010 年生下的小女孩的称呼。
Calling our kid "it" only felt right for about a week or two.
称我们的孩子为“它”只感觉合适一两周。
So we brainstormed baby code names one night in bed.
因此，我们有一天晚上在床上集思广益地想出了婴儿的代号。
Hillary thought the name should be something like that opening scene in the West Wing pilot, the one where Rob Lowe walks out of the shower, and a woman in underwear and a men's dress shirt reads from his pager, "POTUS in a bicycle accident." Hillary said our code name should pop like that.
希拉里认为这个名字应该类似于《西翼》试播集的开场场景，罗布·劳走出淋浴间，一名穿着内衣和男式正装衬衫的女人从他的传呼机上读到“美国总统遭遇自行车事故”。希拉里说我们的代号应该这样流行。
But we couldn't think of anything as cool as POTUS, so we just stole it.
但我们想不出像 POTUS 这样酷的东西，所以我们就偷了它。
I worried that while POTUS was still nothing more than cells splitting into other cells that we might be setting unachievable expectations by naming her the acronym the Secret Service used to refer to the President of the United States.
我担心，虽然美国总统仍然只不过是分裂成其他细胞的细胞，但我们用特勤局用来指代美国总统的缩写来命名她，可能会设定无法实现的期望。
When people find out you're having a baby, they predict all kinds of things about the child you'll have.
当人们发现您怀孕了时，他们会预测您将生下的孩子的各种情况。
But I wanted to let POTUS tell us who she was, so I tried to cling mostly to the facts.
但我想让美国总统告诉我们她是谁，所以我尽量坚持事实。
20 weeks into Hillary's pregnancy, we went in for an ultrasound.
希拉里怀孕 20 周后，我们去做了超声波检查。
Our ultrasound technician looked like Kate from Jon & Kate Plus 8 in scrubs.
我们的超声波技师看起来就像 Jon & Kate Plus 8 中穿着磨砂膏的 Kate。
She had that crazy hairdo and everything.
她有着疯狂的发型和一切。
We asked if she could tell the gender of the baby.
我们问她是否能说出孩子的性别。
And she said, it's a girl.
她说，是个女孩。
She said it with the same level of enthusiasm I used to tell Hillary that we got a gas bill in the mail.
她说这番话时的热情与我过去告诉希拉里我们收到了邮寄的煤气费账单时一样热情。
Knowing that POTUS was a girl meant that now there was a shape to the mystery.
知道总统是个女孩意味着现在这个谜团已经有了雏形。
The ultrasound gave us the lines of a coloring book, and we couldn't help but fill them in.
超声波给了我们一本涂色书的线条，我们情不自禁地把它们填满了。
Hillary remembered all the stuff about dominant and recessive genes that I slept through in my high school biology class.
希拉里还记得我在高中生物课上睡过的所有关于显性和隐性基因的知识。
And we thought about our friend Michelle, a biologist who spends her days working with fruit fly genes.
我们想到了我们的朋友米歇尔，她是一位生物学家，每天都在研究果蝇基因。
I don't really understand what it is she does exactly, except that it has something to do with diabetes.
我不太明白她到底在做什么，只知道这与糖尿病有关。
And this summer, when I was having a fruit fly infestation, she didn't have any suggestions for how I could capture or kill them.
今年夏天，当我遭遇果蝇侵扰时，她没有给我任何关于如何捕获或杀死它们的建议。
I thought maybe Michelle could help us figure out what POTUS might look like.
我想也许米歇尔可以帮助我们弄清楚美国总统可能是什么样子。
She said she'd do her best, but that this stuff was more complicated in humans than what I was imagining.
她说她会尽力而为，但人类的事情比我想象的要复杂。
She also told me that there was a great paper published in Science recently about the genetics of dog coats, and that if we were breeding a dog instead of a little girl, she could be really helpful.
她还告诉我，《科学》杂志最近发表了一篇关于狗皮毛遗传学的精彩论文，如果我们饲养一只狗而不是一个小女孩，她可能会很有帮助。
So Michelle came over to our house, and in exchange for lasagna and a beer, she sat with me and drew Punnett squares, those little squares divided into four smaller squares that are supposed to help you figure out what traits win over others.
于是米歇尔来到我们家，作为烤宽面条和啤酒的交换，她和我坐在一起画了庞内特方块，这些小方块被分成四个更小的方块，应该可以帮助你找出哪些特质胜过其他人。
Michelle was willing to commit to a few things, like the fact that POTUS will likely have dark hair.
米歇尔愿意承诺一些事情，比如总统可能会有黑头发。
But really, she said, even if she was able to study me and Hillary in a lab, she couldn't tell us with any certainty what our baby will look like.
但实际上，她说，即使她能够在实验室里研究我和希拉里，她也无法确定地告诉我们我们的孩子会是什么样子。
Because unlike dogs, humans haven't been bred for certain traits, so there's really no way of knowing what green eyes may be hiding in my genes.
因为与狗不同，人类并没有因为某些特征而被培育出来，所以真的没有办法知道我的基因中可能隐藏着什么绿眼睛。
Mostly, she said, the whole dominant/recessive thing could help us figure out dopey stuff.
她说，大多数情况下，整个显性/隐性的东西可以帮助我们找出愚蠢的东西。
Like, for instance, now we know that POTUS will have unattached earlobes and be able to impress her friends with her ability to roll her tongue like a taco.
举例来说，现在我们知道总统将有独立的耳垂，并且能够像卷玉米卷一样卷起舌头，给她的朋友留下深刻的印象。
A few months ago, not long after we found out that POTUS was a girl, I was riding my bike home from work.
几个月前，就在我们发现总统是个女孩后不久，我下班骑自行车回家。
The traffic was heavy, so I was going pretty slow.
交通很拥挤，所以我走得很慢。
I looked to my right and noticed a girl on the sidewalk looking at me, staring, really.
我向右看，发现人行道上有一个女孩正在看着我，真的是盯着我看。
She looked like she was in her early 20s, and she had her auburn hair tied in a thick braid that swung over her right shoulder.
她看起来二十岁出头，赤褐色的头发扎成一条粗辫子，垂在右肩上。
I can't remember if she was wearing glasses, but I know she was wearing a dress and holding a petition clipboard in her right hand.
我不记得她是否戴眼镜，但我知道她穿着裙子，右手拿着请愿书板。
If skin was made of Play-Doh, hers is what you would get if you forever mixed the Hillary color with the Jonathan one.
如果皮肤是培乐多泥做的，那么如果你永远把希拉里的肤色和乔纳森的肤色混合在一起，你就会得到她的皮肤。
I couldn't tell you if it was that or the way she looked at me intently that's to blame, but I stared back.
我无法告诉你是因为这个还是她专注地看着我的方式，但我也凝视着我。
And for a split second, I thought she might be POTUS all grown up.
有那么一瞬间，我以为她可能是长大了的美国总统。
I wanted to ask her so much, how was school?
我很想问她，学校怎么样？
You live around here?
你住在这附近吗？
What do you like more, seeing fireflies for the first time in the summer or the first fat snowflakes of winter?
你更喜欢哪个，夏天第一次看到萤火虫还是冬天第一朵肥美的雪花？
Really, though, every question was some variation on the one big question I'll try my whole life to make POTUS answer yes to-- are you happy?
不过，实际上，每个问题都是一个大问题的变体，我将尽一生努力让总统回答“你幸福吗？”
It's also, I realize, a question I can't predict the answer to.
我意识到，这也是一个我无法预测答案的问题。
Jonathan Menjivar.
乔纳森·门吉瓦尔。
These days, he's making shows at Pineapple Street Studios.
这些天，他在菠萝街工作室进行演出。
His daughter Sasha is now 10 years old in 5th grade, really into playing the drums, and running for school treasurer.
他的女儿 Sasha 现在 10 岁，上五年级，非常喜欢打鼓，并竞选学校财务主管。
[MUSIC - "EVERYTHING RIGHT IS WRONG AGAIN," BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐 - “一切对的事情又错了”，他们可能是巨人]
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Bim Adewunmi and me.
图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目是由 Bim Adewunmi 和我制作的。
The people who put together today's show include Elna Baker, Dana Chivvis, Aviva DeKornfeld, Noor Gill, Chana Jaffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Lina Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Alyssa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
今天节目的制作人包括 Elna Baker、Dana Chivvis、Aviva DeKornfeld、Noor Gill、Chana Jaffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Lina Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Alyssa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our managing editor, Sara Abdurrahman.
我们的总编辑萨拉·阿卜杜拉赫曼。
Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的高级编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
我们的执行编辑是 Emanuele Berry。
Special thanks today to Sahil Mehrotra, Dr. Daniel A.
今天特别感谢 Sahil Mehrotra、Daniel A.
Smith, Casey Morell, and Steve Schale.
史密斯、凯西·莫雷尔和史蒂夫·沙尔。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费收听我们的 700 多集档案。
Also, there's videos and all kinds of other stuff there.
此外，那里还有视频和各种其他东西。
thisamericanlife.org.
thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
His new enemy?
他的新敌人？
February.
二月。
He'll tell you himself, very shifty month.
他会亲自告诉你，这个月非常多变。
It's supposed to be 28 days long.
应该是28天。
You never know it's going to stick around an extra day and refuse the peaceful transfer of power into March.
你永远不知道它会多坚持一天并拒绝三月份的和平权力移交。
We all remember.
我们都记得。
We all remember what happened in 2016.
我们都记得2016年发生的事情。
We remember all of it, and so nobody trusts it anymore.
我们记得这一切，所以没有人再相信它了。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "EVERYTHING RIGHT IS WRONG AGAIN," BY THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS]
[音乐 - “一切对的事情又错了”，他们可能是巨人]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。