701: Black Box - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #701 | April 17, 2020 701: Black Box Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 701 集 | 2020 年 4 月 17 日 701：黑匣子 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass So one of the things that's happening right now around the world is that you have all these couples-- happy ones, struggling couples, couples in that kind of things seem OK, but I don't know haze.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 所以现在世界各地正在发生的一件事就是，你有所有这些情侣——幸福的情侣，挣扎的情侣，这类事情看起来还不错的情侣，但我不知道雾霾。
Tens of millions of couples confined for weeks now, the relationships being remolded by this lockdown.
数以千万计的夫妇现在被限制了数周，这种封锁正在重塑夫妻关系。
It's an accelerator.
这是一个加速器。
It's a relationship accelerator.
这是关系加速器。
So it rearranges the priority and throws the superfluous overboard in a very clarifying way for many of us.
因此，它重新安排了优先级，并以一种对我们许多人来说非常清晰的方式将多余的东西扔到了一边。
Wondering what's happening with couples, I reached out to Esther Perel, who's a couples therapist.
想知道夫妻之间发生了什么，我联系了埃丝特·佩雷尔，她是一位夫妻治疗师。
If you've heard of her, she's probably best known for this idea from her book, Mating in Captivity, that it takes a toll on couples and kills passion when there's not enough distance between the partners.
如果你听说过她，她最出名的可能是她的书《圈养交配》中的这个想法，即当伴侣之间的距离不够时，这会对夫妻造成伤害并扼杀激情。
And they turn to each other for everything.
他们凡事都会向对方求助。
For friendship, and a sense of identity, and comfort, and everything a whole village used to provide a person.
为了友谊、认同感、舒适感，以及整个村庄为一个人提供的一切。
And she's very aware that under lockdown, people are literally turning to their partners for everything.
她非常清楚，在封锁期间，人们实际上会向伴侣寻求一切帮助。
These days, she's seeing a full schedule of couples, more than she usually does.
这些天，她见到的情侣排得很满，比平时更多。
Interestingly, she says this is an unusually good moment for therapy.
有趣的是，她说这是一个异常好的治疗时机。
And in lockdown, lots of clients who are opening up and figuring out things in ways they don't normally, like some of the men in the couples--
在封锁期间，很多客户都敞开心扉，以他们通常不会的方式解决问题，就像情侣中的一些男人一样——
It's like for the first time, they're actually doing therapy.
这就像他们第一次真正进行治疗。
It's exciting, basically because they stopped.
这很令人兴奋，主要是因为他们停下来了。
They slowed down their home.
他们放慢了回家的速度。
And they're like this blossoming of opening up and--
他们就像开放的花朵一样——
Wow.
哇。
Esther Perel Three dudes, you know, three men-- it's just exci-- like I don't want to get off the phone because it's very moving.
Esther Perel：三个男人，你知道，三个男人——这太令人兴奋了——就像我不想挂断电话，因为这非常感人。
For most of the couples that you're seeing, what's your sense?
对于你看到的大多数情侣，你的感觉是什么？
Has the lockdown been good for them or bad for them?
封锁对他们来说是好事还是坏事？
Hm.
嗯。
It's just such an interesting thing to see.
这是一件非常有趣的事情。
Really both, really both.
真的两者，真的两者。
I can't say one or the other.
我不能说其中之一。
The couples struggling the most are pretty much exactly the ones you'd expect, people who even before all this were quick to pick at their partners, and criticize them, and argue over who's sacrificing the most for whom.
那些最挣扎的夫妇几乎正是你所期望的那些人，他们甚至在这一切发生之前就很快地挑剔他们的伴侣，批评他们，并争论谁为谁牺牲最多。
But also in this moment when our lives have been so profoundly disrupted, another group doing badly--
但也在我们的生活被严重扰乱的这一刻，另一个群体表现不佳——
People who-- they've lost someone, or they have someone who's sick, or they are anxious.
人们失去了某人，或者有人生病了，或者他们感到焦虑。
They are worried.
他们很担心。
And basically their partner is unable to have an emphatic response.
基本上他们的伴侣无法做出强有力的回应。
You know, what are you worried about?
你知道吗，你担心什么？
There's nothing.
什么都没有。
And people tell you, my partner is the last person I'm turning to for anything I'm feeling right now.
人们告诉你，我现在的感受是我最不会向伴侣求助的。
It's like I have nowhere to go with this, to just be able to be upset, or scared, or this constant sense of loss just of the world they've known, their own identity, their work, all of that.
就好像我无处可去，只能感到沮丧、害怕，或者对他们所熟悉的世界、他们自己的身份、他们的工作，所有这一切感到持续的失落感。
The extreme circumstances are also driving people to re-prioritize.
极端的情况也促使人们重新确定优先顺序。
Esther has seen couples split up and others move in together.
艾丝特见过一些夫妻分居，另一些则搬到一起同居。
And one of her most fascinating role reversals-- she's counseling one couple where one of the partners was always seen as the insecure one.
她最令人着迷的角色转换之一是——她正在为一对夫妇提供咨询，而其中一方总是被视为没有安全感的一方。
She'd struggled through a traumatic childhood.
她经历了痛苦的童年。
It was agreed between the two of them that she was the troubled one who leaned on her stronger, more together partner.
他们两人一致认为，她是那个陷入困境的人，她依靠她更坚强、更团结的伴侣。
But now with the deadly virus everywhere, she's found that her difficult childhood gave her all kinds of coping and managing skills.
但现在致命病毒无处不在，她发现艰难的童年赋予了她各种应对和管理技能。
She's basically, I have known chaos.
她基本上是，我已经知道混乱了。
You put me in this crisis.
你让我陷入了这场危机。
I know what to do.
我知道该怎么做。
I knew what to do before anybody around me.
我比周围的人都知道要做什么。
I was in that supermarket.
我当时在那个超市。
I even knew to get the stuff for the parents of my girlfriend who is not even here because I knew that they would need this.
我什至知道要为我女朋友的父母买东西，她甚至不在这里，因为我知道他们会需要这个。
And I just felt like now the world is clear to me.
我只是觉得现在世界对我来说很清晰。
I know what it needs from me.
我知道它需要我做什么。
And in this particular relationship, it's two women.
在这种特殊的关系中，有两个女人。
And it was a very interesting thing because it had-- I don't think that side of her had ever been known.
这是一件非常有趣的事情，因为我认为她的那一面从未为人所知。
It had always been described as you're the one with the issues because you come from this very traumatic background.
人们总是认为你是有问题的人，因为你来自这个非常痛苦的背景。
So she became the functional one in the relationship.
因此，她成为了这段关系中的功能性角色。
It was like a whole different way of being, but it was also a revelation to her self.
这就像一种完全不同的存在方式，但这也是对她自我的一种启示。
This turned everything around.
这扭转了一切。
Suddenly, she wasn't seeking her partner's approval all the time.
突然之间，她不再总是寻求伴侣的认可。
She didn't need it, which, of course, is healthy and great, except for the partner who is used to being the strong one.
她不需要它，这当然是健康和伟大的，除了习惯于强势的伴侣。
It's one thing to wish that the person you're with is more assertive and less needy.
希望和你在一起的人更加自信、更少需求是一回事。
What do you do when you get that wish?
当你实现这个愿望时你会做什么？
It made her uncomfortable.
这让她很不舒服。
And the way this played out did not surprise Esther.
而事情的发展方式并没有让埃丝特感到惊讶。
Oh, when I'm not comfortable with someone who is emancipating right next to me, I basically try to make them doubt themselves again.
哦，当我对身边正在解放的人感到不舒服时，我基本上会试图让他们再次怀疑自己。
Because if they doubt themselves, if they're not sure, then they come to me.
因为如果他们怀疑自己，如果他们不确定，那么他们就会来找我。
Yes, in all kinds of very subtle ways, of course.
是的，当然是以各种非常微妙的方式。
This is not flagrant.
这并不明目张胆。
So she would say things to encourage her formerly dependent partner to second-guess herself, to doubt herself, things like--
所以她会说一些话来鼓励她以前依赖的伴侣重新审视自己，怀疑自己，比如——
It's so interesting that you want to do that.
这太有趣了，以至于你想要这样做。
I thought you didn't really-- that that was not what you wanted to do.
我以为你并不是真的——那不是你想做的事。
Or you once mentioned to me that you don't want to bring your mom, you don't want to call your father.
或者你曾经对我提到你不想带你妈妈来，你不想给你爸爸打电话。
Little doubts.
小疑惑。
Esther Perel It's a bit of a mind twist, just gentle mind twists.
埃丝特·佩雷尔（Esther Perel） 这有点让人精神扭曲，只是轻微的精神扭曲。
You don't mean to.
你不是故意的。
It looks like it's a very rational conversation.
看起来这是一次非常理性的谈话。
With other couples, Esther Perel says being on lockdown is forcing them to confront things that they'd been avoiding, but have never actually stopped to figure out.
埃丝特·佩雷尔说，对于其他夫妇来说，封锁迫使他们面对那些他们一直回避但从未真正停下来弄清楚的事情。
There's a couple like this on her podcast.
她的播客上有一对这样的夫妇。
She does a show called Where Should We Begin?, where she records therapy sessions with real couples who volunteer to do this anonymously on a podcast.
她做了一个名为“我们应该从哪里开始？”的节目，在那里她记录了与真实夫妇的治疗过程，这些夫妇自愿在播客上匿名这样做。
Right now all the sessions are couples on lockdown.
现在所有的会议都是处于封锁状态的情侣。
In episode two of the season, the couple was living apart before COVID-19.
在本季第二集中，这对夫妇在感染新冠病毒 (COVID-19) 之前就分居了。
They had been together, living in Italy, but she got a job offer in Germany, caused a huge rift.
他们本来在一起，住在意大利，但她在德国找到了工作机会，造成了巨大的裂痕。
She moved to Germany with her teenage daughter.
她带着十几岁的女儿搬到了德国。
He didn't.
他没有。
Then this year, when it really became a hotspot for the virus, he finally moved in with them.
然后今年，当它真正成为病毒热点时，他终于搬去和他们住在一起。
And finally, he and she had to deal with each other.
最后，他和她不得不面对彼此。
They were on the verge of divorcing the moment this is over.
事情结束后，他们正处于离婚的边缘。
This is an interesting situation because COVID-19 basically brought them together under one roof.
这是一个有趣的情况，因为 COVID-19 基本上将他们聚集在一个屋檐下。
They have been apart for a year and a half, and each one feels the other one abandoned them.
他们已经分开一年半了，每个人都觉得对方抛弃了他们。
So COVID-19 resolved the standoff between them because neither of them had to make the decision, because the virus decided.
因此，COVID-19 解决了他们之间的僵局，因为他们都不必做出决定，因为病毒决定了。
And now they're under the same roof.
而现在，他们已经在同一个屋檐下了。
And neither of them had to give in.
他们都不必屈服。
But once they're together, they are in a constant-- it's like one person talks, the other one listens until they find a thing they can disagree with.
但一旦他们在一起，他们就会陷入一种常态——就像一个人说话，另一个人倾听，直到他们发现一件他们可以不同意的事情。
And that's where they enter.
这就是他们进入的地方。
And now they're going to start arguing.
现在他们要开始争论了。
And it's interesting.
这很有趣。
There's a point where they keep having the same fight over and over.
有时候，他们会一遍又一遍地进行同样的战斗。
And you keep saying to them, stop having this fight.
你一直对他们说，别再打架了。
And there's a moment in the session where he actually is being kind to her and sort of inviting.
在会谈中的某个时刻，他实际上对她很友善，并且有点邀请。
And it's so interesting what happens.
发生的事情非常有趣。
Like you said, I am very busy.
就像你说的，我很忙。
And today, I wanted to cook for you instead of doing something else.
今天，我不想做别的事，而是想给你做饭。
So I did that without even telling you.
所以我就这样做了，甚至没有告诉你。
And these are the things that you don't appreciate.
而这些都是你不珍惜的事情。
No, I appreciate, but would have been better if I would have cooked and then we were eating all together.
不，我很感激，但如果我先做饭然后我们一起吃饭会更好。
So you did a great thing today to cook the lunch.
所以你今天做饭做得很好。
But you didn't have lunch with us basically because you were between two calls.
但你没有和我们一起吃午饭主要是因为你在两次通话之间。
You had just five minutes to eat.
你只有五分钟的时间吃饭。
And I prefer to eat anything with you besides you cooking to let us eat, you know what I mean?
除了你做饭让我们吃之外，我更喜欢和你一起吃任何东西，你知道我的意思吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Let's plan what makes us happy maybe 'cause would have been better if we would have shared those 15 minutes of the lunch.
让我们计划一下什么让我们开心，也许因为如果我们能一起分享这 15 分钟的午餐会更好。
I also can't make it right.
我也做不到。
Man No, no. But there is nothing wrong.
男人不，不。但并没有什么问题。
Yes.
是的。
Man But it's not.
但事实并非如此。
It's not.
它不是。
I'm just saying I would love to have lunch with you, and I would prefer to cook instead of you.
我只是说我很想和你一起吃午饭，而且我更愿意代替你做饭。
If you have to spend those 15 minutes cooking for us, it's better that you make one call in those 15 minutes while I'm cooking and then you dedicate the next 15 minutes just to eat together.
如果你必须花这 15 分钟为我们做饭，最好在我做饭的 15 分钟内打个电话，然后用接下来的 15 分钟一起吃饭。
I'm not criticizing anything.
我不是在批评任何事情。
But I'm scared to ask you to cook again because I see all the things that you're doing right.
但我不敢再请你做饭，因为我看到你做的所有事情都是正确的。
One second, one second, one second.
一秒，一秒，一秒。
This moment was important.
这一刻很重要。
If you go to a class, you'd miss this, because you want to know if he cares.
如果你去上课，你会错过这个，因为你想知道他是否在乎。
And he just told you.
他刚刚告诉你了。
I would rather eat with you, whatever.
我宁愿和你一起吃饭，无论如何。
He just gave it to you on a platter.
他只是把它放在盘子里给你。
But you only heard the piece about it would have been better if you hadn't cooked.
但你只是听说过有关它的文章，如果你没有做饭的话会更好。
You didn't hear that what he meant with that was because I would have wanted that time with you.
你没有听到他的意思是因为我想和你一起度过那段时光。
It's like you hear that which you want to hear, even if it's what you fear hearing and that you're not hearing what he's actually telling you.
就像你听到了你想听的内容，即使这是你害怕听到的内容，并且你没有听到他实际上告诉你的内容。
I'm not so sure that love is gone, but I think that the lovers have become invisible to the love that is.
我不太确定爱是否已经消失，但我认为恋人已经看不见爱了。
That's-- wow.
那是——哇。
But she just said, oh my god, that was the wow effect.
但她只是说，天哪，这就是哇的效果。
She says this thing to the couple that-- I don't know-- maybe anybody who's ever been in a couple would find useful.
她对这对夫妇说的这句话——我不知道——也许任何曾经有过情侣的人都会觉得有用。
She says to them, notice that behind every criticism there's a wish, a wish to be closer.
她对他们说，请注意，每一次批评的背后都有一个愿望，一个更亲近的愿望。
Esther says she sees other couples in the same situation as this one.
艾丝特说，她看到其他夫妇也有与这对相同的情况。
They're stuck in the same fight, and everything leads back to that fight, everything the other person says.
他们陷入了同一场争斗，一切都会回到那场争斗，对方所说的一切。
And they're too far gone to fix it.
他们已经无法解决这个问题了。
But what this couple was able to do, she says, was put aside the fight for a moment and talk about the feelings they were having for each other underneath all that.
但她说，这对夫妇能做的就是暂时搁置争吵，谈论在这一切背后他们对彼此的感受。
By the end of the therapy session, they're speaking in a sincere and heartfelt way that they hadn't in a long time.
在治疗结束时，他们以一种真诚而发自内心的方式说话，这是他们已经很长时间没有的了。
So I called you when this crisis started, and you came to take care of us.
所以当危机开始时我给你打电话，你来照顾我们。
And I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
And I don't want to lose this.
我不想失去这个。
This COVID-19 for this couple will save the couple that was literally otherwise on its way out.
这对夫妇的新冠病毒 (COVID-19) 将拯救这对原本即将走出困境的夫妇。
They were going to do another one year of fighting like this.
他们还要再这样战斗一年。
And then one of them would meet somebody else, and that would be the end of that story.
然后他们中的一个会遇到另一个人，故事就这样结束了。
17 years-- it's not like they've just met yesterday.
17年——他们不像昨天才认识。
Other couples don't get to this point.
其他夫妻还没有达到这一点。
Episode three of her podcast this season has another couple who cannot stop themselves from fighting the same fight over and over.
在她本季播客的第三集中，另一对夫妇无法阻止自己一遍又一遍地进行同一场战斗。
They decided to divorce two weeks before lockdown.
他们决定在封锁前两周离婚。
And since then, it's gotten so much worse.
从那时起，情况变得更糟了。
What's hurting me, living with someone who has so much contempt for me and feels that I am trying to control you by asking you to isolate with your family, which is what the governor is asking us to do.
和一个非常蔑视我的人住在一起，并觉得我试图通过要求你与家人隔离来控制你，这让我很伤心，这正是州长要求我们做的。
And I'm sorry that that doesn't work with your social plans, but this is a time that people are suffering.
我很抱歉这不符合你们的社会计划，但这是一个人们正在受苦的时代。
I'm not arguing that.
我并不是在争论这一点。
I can't argue with you anymore.
我不能再和你争论了。
No, but you are.
不，但你是。
Man I'm saying I'm not happy about it.
伙计，我是说我对此不满意。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
You lecture them in that episode a few times with a tone I feel like we don't usually hear from you.
你在那集中给他们讲了几次课，语气我觉得我们通常不会听到你的声音。
Yes.
是的。
I'm basically saying, you have a task to accomplish.
我基本上是说，你有一项任务要完成。
You are in lockdown together.
你们一起被封锁。
And this is your mission right now.
这就是你现在的使命。
That's your project.
那是你的项目。
What you feel about each other is rather irrelevant.
你们对彼此的感觉是无关紧要的。
You are two parents.
你们是两个父母。
You chose to be here in this house together.
你们选择一起住在这所房子里。
What are you going to do, piss on each other the whole time just to remind the other that you resent having to be here?
你打算做什么，一直互相撒尿只是为了提醒对方你讨厌呆在这里？
Or are you just simply going to try to be as civil as you can be and make this tolerable for everyone?
或者你只是想尽可能表现得文明一点，让每个人都可以忍受？
For so many couples, the stress of lockdown makes things worse.
对于很多夫妇来说，封锁的压力让事情变得更糟。
There are already reports from China, as it comes out of lockdown, that divorce may be on the rise there.
已经有来自中国的报道称，随着封锁解除，那里的离婚率可能会上升。
So who are the couples who are doing better?
那么，哪些情侣的表现比较好呢？
Who does better is the people who think, what can I learn here?
谁做得更好，谁会思考“我在这里能学到什么？”
What is this telling me about what actually matters in my life or what I really want to do and becoming more aware of things?
这告诉我什么是我生活中真正重要的事情，或者我真正想做的事情并变得更加了解事情？
Because A, we have never slowed down like this.
因为A，我们从来没有这样放慢过脚步。
Never on a global level have we slowed down like this.
在全球范围内，我们从未像现在这样放慢脚步。
It's a long time that we have only been accelerating, accelerating, accelerating.
很长一段时间以来，我们一直在加速、加速、加速。
And for the first time-- and I don't think we have begun even to understand what this is going to do to you to have had to really experience what that kind of a slowdown will do.
这是第一次——我认为我们甚至还没有开始理解这将对你产生什么影响，而必须真正体验这种放缓会带来什么影响。
Who we'll all be when this is done, who knows, seriously?
当这一切完成后，我们都会是谁，谁知道呢，说真的？
Trying to guess the ultimate effect of this national shutdown on couples, on our kids' education, on the economy, on ourselves, it's like the virus has thrown the future into this black box.
试图猜测这次全国性的封锁对夫妇、孩子的教育、经济、我们自己的最终影响，就像病毒把未来扔进了这个黑匣子。
We can make our guesses, or we can just accept we'll know when we know.
我们可以做出猜测，或者我们可以接受当我们知道时我们就会知道。
And for those of us who like more certainty in our lives, well, tough luck.
对于我们这些喜欢生活更加确定的人来说，运气不好。
Today on our program, we have people trying in various situations to live with a lack of information, not happy about that fact at all, but doing their best.
今天，在我们的节目中，人们在各种情况下尝试在缺乏信息的情况下生活，对此事实一点也不高兴，但他们尽力而为。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, A Phone Flickers in the Dark.
第一幕，一部电话在黑暗中闪烁。
There's one part of the world where there's a kind of information vacuum.
世界上的某个地方存在一种信息真空。
At least for those of us who aren't there, it's a kind of black box.
至少对于我们这些不在现场的人来说，这是一种黑匣子。
It's Xinjiang, China.
这是中国新疆。
If you picture China, it's in the northwest corner, far from China's big cities, the size of Mexico, nestled up against Kazakhstan, and a few other Stans.
如果你想象一下中国，它位于西北角，远离中国的大城市，面积相当于墨西哥，毗邻哈萨克斯坦和其他一些斯坦。
And ethnically it's been more like them than 90% of China.
从种族上看，他们比90%的中国人更相似。
For instance, it's home to the Uyghurs, who speak their own language that's close to Turkish, not Mandarin Chinese.
例如，这里是维吾尔人的家园，他们说的语言接近土耳其语，而不是普通话。
Most Uyghurs are Muslim.
大多数维吾尔人是穆斯林。
And for a long time, the Uyghurs faced discrimination and arbitrary detention in China.
长期以来，维吾尔人在中国面临歧视和任意拘留。
If you follow the news, you probably know that this escalated beginning in 2014 when the government started accusing hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs of supporting terrorism and wanting to separate from China, and sent them to so-called re-education centers.
如果你关注新闻，你可能知道这种情况从 2014 年开始升级，当时政府开始指责数十万维吾尔人支持恐怖主义并希望与中国分离，并将他们送往所谓的再教育中心。
They're better described as internment camps.
他们被更好地描述为拘留营。
Former detainees report being beaten.
前被拘留者报告称遭到殴打。
Women have testified that they were forcibly sterilized.
妇女作证称她们被强制绝育。
The State Department has estimated that up to two million people were held in these camps.
美国国务院估计，这些难民营中关押着多达 200 万人。
But information about what's really going on in Xinjiang is hard to come by.
但有关新疆真实情况的信息却很难获得。
And for Uyghurs outside of Xinjiang who want to check in on their families back home, well, some families are effectively blocked from all communication.
对于想要探望家乡家人的新疆以外的维吾尔人来说，一些家庭实际上被封锁了所有通讯渠道。
Others, the government monitors phone calls, and you don't want to say anything that will lead to officials banging on your family's door.
其他人，政府监听电话，你不想说任何会导致官员敲你家门的话。
So Uyghurs in the diaspora have turned to TikTok.
因此，海外维吾尔人转向了 TikTok。
Yes, older listeners, you think of TikTok as the app where the kids are making dance videos and jokes that you do not understand.
是的，年长的听众，你认为 TikTok 是一个孩子们制作你听不懂的舞蹈视频和笑话的应用程序。
But the app started in China.
但该应用程序始于中国。
The Chinese version of TikTok is called Douyin.
TikTok的中国版称为抖音。
It is insanely popular, over 400 million users a day.
它非常受欢迎，每天有超过 4 亿用户。
And because it's so visual, the government is not so great at censoring it.
而且由于它非常直观，政府不太擅长对其进行审查。
As a result, it's a place where uncensored content gets out of Xinjiang.
因此，这里成为未经审查的内容流出新疆的地方。
There are videos posted by Uyghurs, but also by government officials who've been sent there to manage Uyghurs.
有维吾尔人发布的视频，也有派到那里管理维吾尔人的政府官员发布的视频。
Here is a TikTok video that seems to have been posted by an official who's been assigned to live with a Uyghur family in their house as a kind of minder.
这是一段 TikTok 视频，似乎是由一名官员发布的，该官员被派去与一个维吾尔族家庭住在一起，充当看护者的角色。
It seems like maybe he posted this to show everything's fine.
看起来也许他发布这个是为了表明一切都很好。
We're getting along.
我们相处得很融洽。
Everything's great.
一切都很棒。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Ira Glass In the video, the minder is eating breakfast with the two kids from the family in the garden.
[维吾尔语] Ira Glass 在视频中，看护人正在花园里和家里的两个孩子一起吃早餐。
He smiles at the camera, turns it to the little boy eating next to him.
他对着镜头微笑，然后把镜头转向旁边吃饭的小男孩。
And then in Uyghur, the boy says to his mom--
然后男孩用维吾尔语对他妈妈说——
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Ira Glass --"When my dad comes home, this guy will leave."
[维吾尔语] Ira Glass——“当我爸爸回家时，这个人就会离开。”
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Ira Glass "Mom, is he coming on Monday?" The official doesn't seem to understand a word of that.
[维吾尔语] Ira Glass “妈妈，他周一会来吗？”这位官员似乎根本听不懂这句话。
Now here is a video posted presumably by somebody who's Uyghur.
现在这里有一段视频，大概是由维吾尔族人发布的。
It's a woman with long, dark hair sitting in her car while the song "Faded" by Alan Walker plays in the background.
车里坐着一位留着长长的黑发的女人，背景音乐是艾伦·沃克的歌曲《Faded》。
There's something off about this.
这件事有些不对劲。
It is not a normal TikTok video of somebody dancing.
这不是一个普通的跳舞的 TikTok 视频。
She's beating her chest with her fist to the beat.
她随着节拍用拳头捶打自己的胸口。
And then you realize there are dozens of these same kind of video, using the same song, everybody beating their chest.
然后你意识到有几十个相同类型的视频，使用同一首歌，每个人都捶胸顿足。
It's like a virtual protest.
这就像一场虚拟的抗议。
Still, like I say, there are lots of Uyghurs trying to figure out what's going on in Xinjiang and what's happening to their own families there.
尽管如此，正如我所说，仍有很多维吾尔人试图弄清楚新疆正在发生什么以及他们自己的家人在那里发生了什么。
Durrie Bouscaren is a reporter living in Turkey, where a lot of Uyghurs have settled, many of them in the last five years.
杜里·布斯卡伦 (Durrie Bouscaren) 是一名居住在土耳其的记者，许多维吾尔人已经在那里定居，其中许多人是在过去五年里定居的。
She's been talking with one man for months who's been obsessed with these TikTok videos, with anything else he can find that'll give him a look inside Xinjiang's black box because what he values the most in this world, his wife, and son, and the rest of his family, are stuck inside.
她已经和一名男子交谈了几个月，他一直沉迷于这些 TikTok 视频，以及他能找到的任何其他能让他了解新疆黑匣子的东西，因为他在这个世界上最看重的东西，他的妻子、儿子以及他的家人，都被困在里面。
Here's Durrie.
这是杜里。
Abdurahman Tohti fled China seven years ago after getting arrested and tortured for learning Arabic.
七年前，阿卜杜拉赫曼·土赫提因学习阿拉伯语被捕并遭受酷刑后逃离中国。
He wanted to read the Quran.
他想读《古兰经》。
Today, he still doesn't have much feeling in his feet.
今天，他的脚仍然没有太多感觉。
But let me tell you how he met his wife, because it's a sweet story.
但让我告诉你他是如何认识他的妻子的，因为这是一个甜蜜的故事。
When Abdurahman got to Istanbul, he wanted to settle down and start a family of his own.
当阿卜杜拉赫曼到达伊斯坦布尔时，他想安定下来并组建自己的家庭。
So he turned to his dad back in Xinjiang, the person he trusts most in the world, and asked him to help him find someone back home for him to marry.
于是，他向远在新疆的父亲求助，请求他帮他在家乡找一个可以结婚的人。
His dad went around, talked to other parents.
他的父亲四处走动，与其他父母交谈。
And he found Peride, a biology student with brown eyes and a kind face.
他找到了佩里德，一个有着棕色眼睛和慈祥面孔的生物系学生。
Abdurahman and Peride talked on WeChat.
阿卜杜拉赫曼和佩里德在微信上交谈。
That's the main social media platform in China.
这是中国主要的社交媒体平台。
They couldn't say much because they knew the government monitored calls to foreign numbers.
他们不能说太多，因为他们知道政府监控拨打外国号码的电话。
The conversation was stilted, but they got a sense for each other.
谈话虽然有些生硬，但他们却对彼此有了感觉。
And they decided to get married.
他们决定结婚。
So she packed her bags and boarded a plane to Turkey.
于是她收拾好行李，登上了飞往土耳其的飞机。
Abdurahman was so excited.
阿卜杜拉赫曼非常兴奋。
So the plane arrived at 2 o'clock in the night.
于是飞机在深夜2点到达。
So I went to the airport to pick her up.
于是我就去机场接她。
I bought a big rose flower, and I put a Quran in the middle.
我买了一朵大玫瑰花，中间放了一本《古兰经》。
And I put a ring on the top of the Quran for picking her up from airport.
我在《古兰经》的顶部放了一个戒指，以便从机场接她。
He brought a photo of her to make sure he could figure out who she was.
他带来了一张她的照片，以确保他能认出她是谁。
He was in the terminal with a group of friends, waiting.
他和一群朋友在航站楼里等待。
People were streaming out of the customs area, and he sees her.
人们从海关区涌出，他看到了她。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter I go to her, and I ask, is this you on the picture?
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 我去找她，我问，照片上的是你吗？
She asked, who is the girl in the picture for you?
她问你，照片里的女孩是谁？
So I said, it's my wife.
所以我说，这是我的妻子。
So she said, are you crazy?
所以她说，你疯了吗？
You don't recognize your wife?
你不认识你老婆了？
Then she left.
然后她就离开了。
It wasn't her.
不是她。
It's not Peride.
这不是佩里德。
And Abdurahman's starting to worry, like maybe she's not coming.
阿卜杜拉赫曼开始担心，好像她可能不会来了。
Then he sees someone else who looks like her, goes up to her, shows the picture.
然后他看到另一个长得像她的人，走到她面前，展示了照片。
She's like, no, that's not me.
她说，不，那不是我。
But as he's turning to leave, she calls him back.
但当他转身要走时，她叫住了他。
It was her.
是她。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter She took her phone out and show me my picture and asks me, are you this guy in the phone, in the picture?
[维吾尔语] 翻译 她拿出手机，给我看了我的照片，问我，你是手机里、照片里的那个人吗？
And I say yes.
我说是的。
And that's why we met first time.
这就是我们第一次见面的原因。
She was messing with him.
她在戏弄他。
Abdurahman Tohti [SPEAKING UYGHUR]
阿卜杜拉曼·土赫提 [维吾尔语]
I put a ring on her hand.
我把戒指戴在她手上。
And the girl has a flower.
女孩有一朵花。
And the Turks around us asking, what's happening?
我们周围的土耳其人问，发生了什么事？
Are you getting married?
你要结婚了吗？
Where are you from?
你从哪来？
Suddenly, it became a kind of party.
突然间，它变成了一种聚会。
People are giving us gifts, all kinds of chocolate candies, and saying congratulations.
人们给我们送礼物，各种巧克力糖果，并表示祝贺。
And it was a really happy moment for us.
这对我们来说是一个非常快乐的时刻。
A police officer working at the airport says, hey, I'm Uyghur too.
一名在机场工作的警察说，嘿，我也是维吾尔族。
He gives them a police escort back home, lights flashing.
他让警察护送他们回家，灯光闪烁。
It's like a movie.
这就像一部电影。
Not too long after, Abdurahman and Peride had a son.
不久之后，阿卜杜拉赫曼和佩里德生了一个儿子。
They named him Abduleziz, after his grandfather.
他们以他祖父的名字为他命名为阿卜杜勒阿齐兹。
And Abduleziz becomes his dad's mini me.
阿卜杜勒齐兹成了他父亲的迷你我。
Everything Abdurahman did, Abduleziz would follow, from the way he stood to his table manners.
阿卜杜拉赫曼所做的一切，阿卜杜勒齐兹都会效仿，从他的站立方式到餐桌礼仪。
He likes the car.
他喜欢这辆车。
Even when I'm driving my car, he wants to sit in front of me and drive with me.
即使我开车的时候，他也想坐在我前面和我一起开车。
This was in a parking lot.
这是在停车场。
Abdurahman was teaching Peride how to drive, and 18-month-old Abduleziz would sit on his dad's lap and grab the stick shift.
阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Abdurahman) 正在教佩里德 (Peride) 如何开车，18 个月大的阿卜杜勒齐兹 (Abduleziz) 会坐在他父亲的腿上，抓起变速杆。
He'd throw a fuss if he couldn't.
如果他做不到，他就会大惊小怪。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter He was really cute.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 他真的很可爱。
He used to try to copy everything I do.
他曾经试图模仿我所做的一切。
But Abdurahman's relationship with Peride's family was rocky right from the start.
但阿卜杜拉赫曼与佩里德家族的关系从一开始就很不稳定。
Abdurahman is religious, but her family is secular and pretty wealthy.
阿卜杜拉赫曼信奉宗教，但她的家庭是世俗的，而且相当富有。
But the heart of the problem was that Peride's parents felt like she was wasting her education in Turkey.
但问题的核心是佩里德的父母觉得她浪费了在土耳其接受的教育。
She had a degree, but she wasn't using it.
她有学位，但她没有使用它。
She wanted to stay home with their son.
她想留在家里陪儿子。
When Abduleziz was born, Peride's parents started asking her to come back to Xinjiang for a long visit, maybe even to leave Abduleziz with them for a while.
阿卜杜勒阿齐兹出生后，佩里德的父母开始要求她回新疆进行长期访问，甚至可能将阿卜杜勒阿齐兹留给他们一段时间。
In Uyghur families, it's really common for grandparents to take care of their grandkids for their first five years of life while the parents work.
在维吾尔族家庭中，祖父母在父母工作的同时照顾孙子生命的头五年是很常见的。
The pressure from back home got really intense, but Abdurahman and Peride were hesitant to leave Turkey.
来自家乡的压力确实很大，但阿卜杜拉赫曼和佩里德对于离开土耳其犹豫不决。
For starters, Abdurahman couldn't go with her to Xinjiang because he was sure he'd be arrested if he returned to China.
首先，阿卜杜拉赫曼不能和她一起去新疆，因为他确信如果他返回中国就会被捕。
And by this point, it was 2015.
而此时，已经是2015年了。
They'd been hearing whispers about added surveillance, about Uyghurs being detained in Xinjiang.
他们一直听到有关加强监视、维吾尔人在新疆被拘留的传言。
They don't know exactly what's happening, but they know it's not good.
他们不知道到底发生了什么，但他们知道这不好。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter I asked my wife, what do you say?
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 我问我妻子，你说什么？
If you want to with them, we can try it, but I don't feel good about it.
如果你想和他们一起，我们可以尝试一下，但我对此感觉不太好。
And I'm afraid you will not be able to come back again because of the situation down there.
而且因为下面的情况，我担心你再也回不来了。
She said, no, are you crazy?
她说，不，你疯了吗？
I really don't want to travel.
我真的不想去旅行。
Peride's parents kept insisting that it was safe, at least for them.
佩里德的父母一直坚称这里是安全的，至少对他们来说是这样。
They were loyal to the party, and they had high level government contacts.
他们对党忠诚，并且与政府高层有联系。
They're not religious.
他们不信教。
If Abduleziz was with them, they said, it would be OK.
他们说，如果阿卜杜勒齐兹和他们在一起，那就没问题了。
They were pushing, but Abdurahman and Peride kept saying no.
他们极力推动，但阿卜杜拉赫曼和佩里德一直拒绝。
A few months later, Abdurahman was walking by a pretzel shop in his neighborhood when the police stopped him and asked for his residency papers.
几个月后，阿卜杜拉赫曼路过附近的一家椒盐卷饼店时，警察拦住了他，并要求他出示居住证。
His permit had lapsed.
他的许可证已经失效。
He'd applied for a new one, but it hadn't arrived yet.
他已经申请了一份新的，但还没到。
So they arrested him, took him to a detention center.
于是他们逮捕了他，把他带到看守所。
This happens to a fair number of Uyghurs in Turkey.
这种情况发生在土耳其相当多的维吾尔人身上。
They'll be detained for a paperwork issue, and they'll get stuck for a while.
他们会因为文书问题而被拘留，并且会被困一段时间。
In Abdurahman's case, he was locked up for three months, allowed just one phone call home every week.
在阿卜杜拉赫曼的案例中，他被关了三个月，每周只允许打一次电话回家。
Peride, meanwhile, was home alone with their toddler and pregnant, close to her due date.
与此同时，佩里德独自一人带着孩子在家，而且她已经怀孕了，临近预产期。
When Abdurahman finally got out, his whole world had changed.
当阿卜杜拉赫曼终于出来时，他的整个世界都变了。
His wife had given birth to their second child, a girl.
他的妻子生下了他们的第二个孩子，一个女孩。
And his son, Abduleziz, was gone.
他的儿子阿卜杜勒齐兹也不见了。
He was in China.
他当时在中国。
Peride's mother had come for a visit and arranged for the trip back.
佩里德的母亲来探望并安排了回程。
Abdurahman felt tricked.
阿卜杜拉赫曼感觉自己被欺骗了。
He didn't even get to say goodbye.
他甚至没有来得及说再见。
It's like his in-laws waited until he couldn't interfere and then sent his kid away.
就好像他的公婆一直等到他无法干涉，然后才将他的孩子打发走一样。
He says he never would have let Abduleziz go to China.
他说他永远不会让阿卜杜勒齐兹去中国。
Did you-- when you had that first conversation, did you and your wife fight about it?
当你第一次谈话时，你和你的妻子有没有为此争吵过？
Were you upset?
你心烦意乱吗？
Were you angry?
你生气了吗？
What was your physical reaction?
你的身体反应是什么？
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter I was sad, of course, but I didn't argue or fight with her because she was also on the pressure.
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 我当然很伤心，但我没有和她争论或打架，因为她也有压力。
On one side she got me and another side her family pressuring her.
一方面她让我，另一方面她的家人给她施加压力。
So I also want to make it easy for her.
所以我也想让她轻松一点。
Peride said she wanted to go back with the baby just for a short trip, make her parents happy.
佩里德说，她想带着孩子回去短暂旅行，让父母开心。
Then she'd come back with Abduleziz.
然后她会和阿卜杜勒齐兹一起回来。
Abdurahman wasn't crazy about the idea, but he agreed, drove them to the airport.
阿卜杜拉赫曼对这个想法并不热衷，但他同意了，并开车送他们去机场。
It was hard feeling, but I feel I couldn't do anything else.
这种感觉很难受，但我觉得我无能为力。
And so they flew away to go to a place where only fragments of information ever make it out.
于是他们飞走了，去了一个只能看到信息碎片的地方。
The plan was that Peride would contact Abdurahman on WeChat once they'd arrived and felt like it was safe, but he didn't hear from them.
原计划是，佩里德在他们抵达并感觉安全后，会通过微信联系阿卜杜拉赫曼，但他没有收到他们的消息。
He called her parents again and again.
他一次又一次地给她的父母打电话。
They never picked up.
他们从来没有接过。
He started to panic, but this isn't entirely abnormal because of how difficult it is for Uyghurs to communicate with their families in Xinjiang.
他开始恐慌，但这并不完全不正常，因为维吾尔人与新疆的家人沟通非常困难。
He was hoping that that was all it was.
他希望这就是全部。
After two months of this, he says, a distant relative who was visiting Istanbul on business contacted him and said, let's have lunch.
他说，两个月后，一位来伊斯坦布尔出差的远房亲戚联系他说，我们吃午饭吧。
They met.
他们见面了。
He had news.
他有消息。
It wasn't good.
这不太好。
Police arrested Peride as soon as she and the baby arrived in China.
佩里德和孩子一抵达中国，警方就逮捕了她。
She was interrogated and beaten, the cousin said.
表弟说，她遭到审问和殴打。
She was in prison, serving a 10-year sentence.
她正在监狱服刑 10 年。
He thought it was because she lived in Turkey.
他认为这是因为她住在土耳其。
Human rights observers say they've seen several cases where Uyghurs in Xinjiang have been punished for communicating with people in Turkey or other predominantly Muslim countries.
人权观察人士表示，他们已经看到多起新疆维吾尔人因与土耳其或其他穆斯林占多数国家的人交流而受到惩罚的案例。
It's not illegal, per se, but it can get you in trouble with the government.
这本身并不违法，但可能会给政府带来麻烦。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter It's like you burn inside, something that's eating you from inside.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 这就像你的内心在燃烧，有东西从内部吞噬你。
Yeah, because you have a lot of pain, but you cannot do anything.
是的，因为你很痛苦，但你却无能为力。
Their children are with their grandparents, his in-laws, so at least they're safe.
他们的孩子和祖父母、姻亲在一起，所以至少他们是安全的。
But he can't get his wife out of prison.
但他无法让他的妻子出狱。
He can't even call home or try to get more information without endangering his family.
他甚至无法打电话回家或试图获取更多信息，以免危及家人。
Because he's living in Turkey, anyone in Xinjiang who gets a call from him could immediately get flagged by the government.
因为他住在土耳其，任何在新疆接到他电话的人都可能立即被政府举报。
They could be interrogated or even sent to a re-education camp.
他们可能会受到审问，甚至被送往再教育营。
And his family knows this.
他的家人也知道这一点。
By this point, most of them have deleted him from their contacts.
至此，大多数人已经从联系人中删除了他。
So he waits.
所以他等待。
There's nothing he can do.
他无能为力。
He starts putting on weight.
他的体重开始增加。
He sleeps late.
他睡得很晚。
He's stuck.
他被困住了。
For everything he's gone through, Abdurahman's still pretty young.
尽管经历了一切，阿卜杜拉赫曼仍然很年轻。
He's 30.
他30岁了。
I've known him for about six months now, and he does things all the time that remind me that he's a dad who never got to be a dad.
我认识他大约六个月了，他所做的一切一直在提醒我，他是一个永远不必成为父亲的父亲。
He always brings food when we meet and shares his snacks, like steamed buns with lamb dipped in a spicy vinegar sauce.
当我们见面时，他总是带来食物并分享他的小吃，比如辣醋汁羊肉包子。
Once after an interview, we ran into his friend with her kid at a Uyghur-run cafe.
有一次采访结束后，我们在一家维吾尔族经营的咖啡馆遇到了他的朋友和她的孩子。
I'll never forget the look on his face while he tossed the toddler up and down in front of the deli cases, this pure, uncomplicated joy.
我永远不会忘记他在熟食柜前把蹒跚学步的孩子抛来抛去时脸上的表情，这种纯粹、简单的快乐。
But when I ask him how he feels about all this, he's told me men don't have feelings, which obviously isn't true.
但当我问他对这一切有何感想时，他告诉我男人没有感情，这显然不是真的。
Back in December of 2018, when Abdurahman was living in Istanbul, hearing nothing from his family, things in Xinjiang were getting worse.
早在2018年12月，当阿卜杜拉赫曼住在伊斯坦布尔时，没有听到家人的任何消息，新疆的情况正在变得越来越糟。
More and more Uyghurs were sent to re-education centers and later required to do low wage factory work.
越来越多的维吾尔人被送往再教育中心，后来又被要求在工厂做低薪工作。
Human rights observers say this campaign imprisoned about 10% of Uyghur adults in Xinjiang.
人权观察人士称，这场运动监禁了新疆约 10% 的维吾尔族成年人。
But Abdurahman had no idea what was happening to his family.
但阿卜杜拉赫曼不知道他的家人发生了什么事。
That's when TikTok came into his life.
就在那时，TikTok进入了他的生活。
A friend showed it to him.
一位朋友向他展示了它。
He was like, you've got to see this.
他说，你一定要看看这个。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter He said, I just found a relative, a man I know from my hometown.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 他说，我刚找到一个亲戚，是我家乡认识的一个人。
I ask, how do you find people?
我问，你怎么找人？
How does it work?
它是如何运作的？
He tells me, you can write the name of your town.
他告诉我，你可以写下你的城镇的名字。
Abdurahman can't write in Mandarin, so his friend types out the name of his hometown for him.
阿卜杜拉赫曼不会用普通话写字，所以他的朋友帮他打出了家乡的名字。
It's called Axu.
名叫阿旭。
It's an agricultural center in the west, hugging the mountains that form the border between China, Kyrgyzstan, and Kazakhstan.
它是西部的农业中心，拥抱中国、吉尔吉斯斯坦和哈萨克斯坦边境的山脉。
Suddenly, hundreds of users are popping up on his screen.
突然，他的屏幕上突然出现了数百名用户。
He goes through video after video.
他一个接一个地浏览视频。
He sees all of these places that he recognizes-- the woods, and the rivers, and the families hanging out in front of their houses.
他看到了所有他认识的地方——树林、河流，以及在屋前闲逛的家庭。
And he can tell things have definitely changed.
他可以看出事情确实发生了变化。
The cotton fields look the same.
棉花田看起来都一样。
The houses are familiar.
这些房子都很熟悉。
But to Abdurahman, Axu looks like a city under occupation.
但对阿卜杜拉赫曼来说，阿须看起来就像一座被占领的城市。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter A lot of video is Chinese occupier put on that.
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 很多视频都是中国占领者放的。
And the interviews, it looks like a happy moment to them, but what the video has shown is, for example, a Chinese guy in a Uyghur house.
采访对他们来说似乎是一个快乐的时刻，但视频所展示的是，例如，一个中国人在维吾尔族的房子里。
There are only women in the house and a elder lady my mom's age.
家里只有女人和一位和我妈妈同龄的老太太。
The Chinese man first tried to dance with her, like almost forcing her to dance, and tried to hug her.
中国男人首先试图和她跳舞，几乎是强迫她跳舞，并试图拥抱她。
And the Chinese guys look happy, and they thought they are doing something good, but in our tradition is attack.
中国人看起来很高兴，他们认为自己在做好事，但在我们的传统中是进攻。
Like I can see the lady.
就像我能看到那位女士一样。
She cannot do anything against it, but she don't want to dance with the guy.
她无能为力，但她不想和这个家伙跳舞。
In another video, something else seems off.
在另一个视频中，似乎还有其他事情不对劲。
It's a group of people clearing ice off of an irrigation ditch with picks and shovels.
这是一群人用镐和铲子清除灌溉沟渠的冰。
It's winter.
现在是冬天。
You can tell by the trees and the coats they're wearing.
你可以从树木和他们穿的外套看出。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Durrie Bouscaren Abdurahman knows this ditch.
[维吾尔语] 杜里·布斯卡伦·阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Durrie Bouscaren Abdurahman) 知道这条沟渠。
It's just a few minutes from his family's house.
距离他家只有几分钟的路程。
And to him, it's clear they're being forced to work.
对他来说，很明显他们是被迫工作的。
We never clear ice from the ditch until springtime, he tells me.
他告诉我，直到春天我们才清除沟渠中的冰。
There's no need.
没必要吧
It just freezes over again.
它只是再次冻结。
This watching does not seem to be good for Abdurahman, but he can't stop.
这样的注视对阿卜杜拉赫曼来说似乎不太好，但他却停不下来。
TikTok is like this tiny flashlight into the big black box that Xinjiang has become.
TikTok就像这个小手电筒，照进了新疆已经成为的大黑匣子。
For a week, he stayed in his apartment just searching.
他在自己的公寓里待了一周，只是在寻找。
What he was really hoping for was to see someone he recognized, any traces of his kids, his wife's parents, his parents.
他真正希望的是看到一个他认识的人，他的孩子、他的岳父母、他的父母的踪迹。
He hadn't been able to speak to them for several years at this point.
此时他已经好几年没能和他们说话了。
He watched at the kitchen table, watched on the couch.
他在厨房的桌子上看，在沙发上看。
At night, he'd lie awake, scrolling.
晚上，他会躺在床上翻滚。
On January 4, 2019, he was in bed, and like usual, scrolling through TikTok.
2019 年 1 月 4 日，他躺在床上，像往常一样浏览着 TikTok。
It's around 2:00 AM, and Abdurahman sees this video.
凌晨 2:00 左右，阿卜杜拉赫曼看到了这段视频。
It's a little boy with big cheeks, expressive eyes.
这是一个小男孩，脸颊很大，眼睛富有表情。
He's in a school, answering questions in Mandarin Chinese from a teacher off camera.
他在一所学校里，在镜头外用普通话回答老师的问题。
Behind him, kids are milling about in winter coats.
在他身后，孩子们穿着冬衣在转来转去。
They have a leather jacket, winter jacket.
他们有皮夹克、冬季夹克。
The teacher asks the kid a bunch of questions.
老师问了孩子很多问题。
What's the name of the fatherland?
祖国的名字叫什么？
The People's Republic of China.
中华人民共和国。
What's on the fatherland's flag?
祖国的国旗上写着什么？
Five stars on a red flag.
红旗上有五颗星。
Where's your water bottle?
你的水瓶在哪里？
Water bottle is here.
水瓶在这里。
Where do we put the food we can't finish?
吃不完的食物该放在哪里？
In the trash.
在垃圾桶里。
Abdurahman doesn't speak Mandarin, but there is one word that stands out to him, Abduleziz.
阿卜杜拉赫曼不会说普通话，但有一个词对他来说很突出，那就是阿卜杜勒阿齐兹。
What's your name, the teacher asks?
老师问你叫什么名字？
I'm called Abduleziz, he says.
“我叫阿卜杜勒齐兹，”他说。
How old are you?
你今年多大？
I'm four.
我四岁了。
That's how old Abdurahman's son should be now.
这就是阿卜杜拉赫曼的儿子现在的年龄。
The video is just 15 seconds long, one of a hundred that he's watched that day, and he can't be sure it's his son, Abduleziz.
该视频只有 15 秒长，是他当天观看的一百秒之一，而且他无法确定这是他的儿子阿卜杜勒齐兹。
But Abdurahman simultaneously gets this rush of love believing that it's his son and this intense fear that it's really him.
但阿卜杜拉赫曼同时感受到一股爱的冲动，相信那是他的儿子，同时又强烈地害怕这就是他。
Because his kids are supposed to be living with their grandparents while he figures out a way to get them home.
因为他的孩子们应该和他们的祖父母住在一起，而他则想办法让他们回家。
And it looks like they aren't.
但看起来他们并非如此。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter As soon as I see it, I can feel it's a camp for children.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 我一看到它，就觉得这是一个儿童营。
It looks like Abduleziz is in a boarding school, one of the ones set up by the Chinese government to take care of about 500,000 kids, many of whose parents have been detained in re-education camps.
阿卜杜勒齐兹似乎在一所寄宿学校里，这是中国政府为照顾大约 50 万儿童而设立的学校之一，其中许多孩子的父母被关押在再教育营中。
Except for short visits home, the kids are generally kept away from their family, taught Mandarin, not Uyghur.
除了短暂回家之外，孩子们通常远离家人，接受普通话教育，而不是维吾尔语。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter Yeah, I feel that my son is becoming more Chinese every day.
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 是的，我感觉我儿子一天天变得更中国化了。
After I understood the video, I became worried about his future, how the regime will teach him and make him an enemy of Uyghurs in the future, especially make him an enemy of people like me.
当我看完视频后，我开始担心他的未来，政权会如何教导他，让他将来成为维吾尔人的敌人，特别是让他成为像我这样的人的敌人。
That seems to be exactly the point of these schools.
这似乎正是这些学校的重点。
They place these kids in a setting where they're removed from their families, their language, their religion, their Uyghurness.
他们将这些孩子置于远离家庭、语言、宗教和维吾尔族特征的环境中。
As one internal government document claims, the goal of this crackdown is to, quote, "break their lineage, break their roots, break their connections, and break their origins." The government is their family now.
正如一份政府内部文件声称的那样，这次镇压的目标是“断其血统、断其根源、断其联系、断其根源”。现在政府就是他们的家人。
From this moment, when Abdurahman saw his son in this video, all he wanted was to get him back.
从这一刻起，当阿卜杜拉赫曼在视频中看到他的儿子时，他只想把他找回来。
He was consumed by it.
他被它吞噬了。
I should say there are lots of parents around the world in the same situation.
应该说，世界上有很多父母有同样的情况。
In the past year or so, I've personally spoken to nine of them in three different countries.
在过去一年左右的时间里，我亲自与三个不同国家的九个人进行了交谈。
Only one was able to get her son out of China, thanks to an influential family member and a Turkish passport.
只有一个人能够将她的儿子带出中国，这要归功于一位有影响力的家庭成员和土耳其护照。
Still, Abdurahman was convinced that he, a guy who doesn't speak Mandarin, doesn't have political connections, can't even call home, he was going to get his son back.
尽管如此，阿卜杜拉赫曼仍然坚信，他这个不会说普通话、没有政治关系、甚至无法给家里打电话的人，他要把儿子找回来。
Reporter Durrie Bouscaren.
记者杜里·布斯卡伦。
Coming up, Abdurahman uses everything he has to get his family back.
接下来，阿卜杜拉赫曼竭尽全力让家人回来。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Black Box, stories of people who don't have the information they need and want, trying to figure out what's going on and what they should do next.
今天的节目《黑匣子》讲述了那些没有他们需要和想要的信息的人们试图弄清楚正在发生的事情以及他们下一步应该做什么的故事。
We now continue with Act One of our show.
我们现在继续我们节目的第一幕。
Right before the break, maybe you heard Abdurahman Tohti thought that he spotted his four-year-old son on a TikTok video and decided to set out on a mission to retrieve him and the rest of his family.
就在中场休息之前，也许你听说阿卜杜拉赫曼·土赫提 (Abdurahman Tohti) 认为他在 TikTok 视频中发现了他四岁的儿子，并决定出发执行一项任务来接回他和他的家人。
Reporter Durrie Bouscaren picks up with Abdurahman's story.
记者杜里·布斯卡伦 (Durrie Bouscaren) 报道阿卜杜拉赫曼 (Abdurahman) 的故事。
The first thing he did was he went to the press, made it public.
他做的第一件事就是向媒体公开。
This was risky because his family was still in China.
这是有风险的，因为他的家人仍在中国。
His interviews were published all over the world in Turkish, English, Portuguese.
他的采访以土耳其语、英语、葡萄牙语在世界各地出版。
He was on the BBC and in The New York Times.
他曾出现在 BBC 和《纽约时报》上。
The media attention was so intense in the beginning.
一开始媒体的关注度非常高。
That makes me have more hope and trust.
这让我有了更多的希望和信任。
I think, OK, something maybe will happen.
我想，好吧，也许会发生一些事情。
But then I find out it will not happen.
但后来我发现这不会发生。
With each of these interviews, it felt like he was screaming into the void, trying to get China and the world to look at him.
每次接受采访时，他都感觉自己在向虚空尖叫，试图让中国和世界注视他。
And the response, silence.
而回应，则是沉默。
He was no closer to getting his family back than he was when they left.
与家人离开时相比，他并没有更接近让家人回来。
He tried more official routes.
他尝试了更多的官方路线。
He went to the Chinese embassy, nothing, asked the Turkish government for help, wrote to the United Nations.
他去了中国大使馆，一无所获，向土耳其政府求助，写信给联合国。
He once told me about this plan to move to Canada as a refugee because he thought the government there would have more leverage.
他曾经告诉我这个以难民身份移居加拿大的计划，因为他认为那里的政府会有更多的影响力。
Mind you, that would take years to come to fruition.
请注意，这需要数年时间才能实现。
But he truly believes that one day his family will be together again.
但他坚信有一天他的家人会再次团聚。
He has these pictures on his phone.
他的手机里有这些照片。
Because there's no portrait of his family, he's made some using passport photos of him and Peride, a baby picture he has of his daughter, and a screenshot of that video of Abduleziz.
因为没有他的家人的肖像，所以他用他和佩里德的护照照片、他女儿的婴儿照片以及阿卜杜勒齐兹的视频截图制作了一些肖像。
They're Photoshopped onto backgrounds, the cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris, cherry blossoms in Japan.
它们被PS到背景上，巴黎圣母院，日本的樱花。
So why do you do that?
那你为什么要这么做呢？
Can you tell me about that?
你能告诉我这件事吗？
It's because we're a family, he tells me.
这是因为我们是一家人，他告诉我。
Last summer, Abdurahman had some luck.
去年夏天，阿卜杜拉赫曼运气不错。
He was scrolling through WeChat, and he found a childhood friend.
他刷着微信，找到了一个儿时的玩伴。
He says they hatched a plan to buy a plane ticket for her to go back to their hometown, get eyes on the ground.
他说，他们制定了一个计划，为她买一张机票，让她回到家乡，实地考察。
But, of course, even when she made it all the way there and was sending him videos of their old neighborhood, she still couldn't speak directly to what she was actually seeing, the significance of it.
但是，当然，即使她一路走到那里并向他发送他们老邻居的视频，她仍然无法直接说出她实际看到的东西及其意义。
Everything's fine, she told him.
一切都很好，她告诉他。
Everything's new and better, as she panned the camera around the empty streets.
当她在空荡荡的街道上摇摄镜头时，一切都变得新奇、美好。
Abdurahman was kicked off WeChat, so we don't have the actual videos.
阿卜杜拉赫曼被微信踢出，所以我们没有实际的视频。
And we weren't able to reach his friend without risking her safety.
我们无法在不冒着安全风险的情况下联系到他的朋友。
But he says the way she spoke was super casual to avoid drawing attention.
但他说她说话的方式非常随意，以避免引起注意。
The buildings are not here anymore.
这些建筑物已经不在这里了。
Don't get surprised because they have built new restaurants here.
不要感到惊讶，因为他们在这里建造了新餐馆。
If you come here, I will buy food for you-- like basically joking.
如果你来这里，我会给你买食物——就像开玩笑一样。
And then I answer her, why should I be surprised?
然后我回答她，我为什么要感到惊讶？
OK, maybe one day we have a chance to meet there.
好吧，也许有一天我们有机会在那里见面。
She drove to the street his parents lived on.
她开车前往他父母居住的街道。
There were a lot of checkpoints.
有很多检查站。
Eventually she got there and found an empty lot.
最终她到达那里，发现了一块空地。
His family's house in the city had been demolished.
他家在城里的房子已经被拆掉了。
They have another home, a farm.
他们还有另一个家，一个农场。
They could have moved there.
他们本来可以搬到那里的。
But this is the point when Abdurahman started to worry that his parents had been taken too.
但这正是阿卜杜拉赫曼开始担心他的父母也被带走的时候。
He hadn't been able to speak to them in four years.
四年来他没能和他们说话。
Every time he gets more information, it's like this.
每次他得到更多的信息，都是这样。
The more he learns, the worse things seem.
他学得越多，事情看起来就越糟糕。
Abdurahman still watches TikTok.
阿卜杜拉赫曼仍然观看 TikTok。
It's like a nervous habit when he's bored, when he's tired.
这就像他无聊、疲倦时的紧张习惯。
In interviews, when it takes too long for an interpreter to translate a question, he'll sort of lean back and pull his phone out from under the table.
在采访中，当口译员翻译问题需要很长时间时，他会向后靠，从桌子底下拿出手机。
Eventually in January of this year, the app shook loose another piece of information.
最终在今年一月，该应用程序又泄露了另一条信息。
An old acquaintance wrote to him through TikTok's direct messaging function.
一位老熟人通过 TikTok 的私信功能给他写信。
The messages start off nonchalantly enough.
这些消息一开始就很漫不经心。
Hi, how are you, brother?
嗨，你好吗，兄弟？
Abdurahman asked him if he's seen his parents lately.
阿卜杜拉赫曼问他最近是否见过他的父母。
How are they doing?
他们怎么样？
The friend didn't have any information about his son or his wife, but he could tell Abdurahman that his family in Axu is gone.
这位朋友没有关于他儿子或妻子的任何信息，但他可以告诉阿卜杜拉赫曼，他在阿须的家人已经不在了。
They're not staying at their farm like he had hoped.
他们并没有像他希望的那样留在农场。
His elderly father, his mother who has cancer, he gives them name after name.
他年迈的父亲和患有癌症的母亲，他一个又一个地给他们起名字。
They're gone.
他们走了。
They're gone too.
他们也走了。
And Abdurahman can't even be sure what this means.
阿卜杜拉赫曼甚至无法确定这意味着什么。
They could have been forced off their land but living elsewhere.
他们可能被迫离开自己的土地，但生活在其他地方。
They could be detained in a re-education center.
他们可能会被拘留在再教育中心。
They could be in prison.
他们可能会入狱。
From thousands of miles away, it's almost impossible to find out.
远在千里之外，几乎不可能发现。
As he's telling me this, it's the day after he got these messages.
正如他告诉我的那样，这是他收到这些消息的第二天。
And Abdurahman is getting really worked up.
阿卜杜拉赫曼真的很激动。
He's talking super, super fast, like a dam has burst and all of these emotions from the past three years are spilling over.
他说得超级快，就像大坝决堤一样，过去三年的所有情绪都溢出来了。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter Not only my parents.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 不仅是我的父母。
My parents, brothers, sisters, all of them are gone.
我的父母、兄弟、姐妹，他们都去世了。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter They have taken-- they have taken everything from me-- property, land, family, son, wife.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 他们夺走了——他们夺走了我的一切——财产、土地、家庭、儿子、妻子。
Everything I got in my life they have taken from me.
我生命中得到的一切都被他们夺走了。
I'm ready to do anything I can to take revenge.
我已经准备好尽我所能来报仇了。
So officials in Chinese embassy, I will smash their cars, smash their buildings until they arrest me or they put my parents free.
所以中国大使馆的官员，我会砸碎他们的汽车，砸碎他们的建筑物，直到他们逮捕我或者释放我的父母。
What can I else do?
我还能做什么？
I've got enough with just speaking empty words.
光说空话我就受够了。
Throw me in jail, keep me outside, it's no different, he says.
他说，把我扔进监狱，把我关在外面，没有什么不同。
They've killed my soul.
他们杀死了我的灵魂。
I have nothing to live for anymore.
我已经没有什么可以活下去的了。
We later called the local police station in his hometown and confirmed that no one is at his family's address, even though 13 people used to live there.
后来我们又打电话给他家乡派出所，确认他家住的地方没有人，尽管那里曾经住过13个人。
They knew that Abdurahman was looking for his family and put a Uyghur speaker on the line to talk to him.
他们知道阿卜杜拉赫曼正在寻找他的家人，并安排了一位会说维吾尔语的人与他通话。
Maybe they've left.
也许他们已经离开了。
Maybe they did something wrong, the speaker said, but she refused to say if they were accused of a crime.
发言人说，也许他们做错了什么，但她拒绝透露他们是否被指控犯罪。
Two days after he gets to the news about his family, he found something new to fixate on, the mayor of Istanbul.
得知家人的消息两天后，他发现了新的事物，那就是伊斯坦布尔市长。
He thought that if he could convince this guy to help him, he might be able to put in a word to Turkish diplomats who help people detained overseas.
他认为，如果他能说服这个人帮助他，他也许可以向帮助海外被拘留者的土耳其外交官说几句话。
The mayor was scheduled to speak at an afternoon event, a dinner in honor of the different cultures of the Turkic world, like the Turks, the Uzbeks, and the Uyghurs.
市长原定在下午的活动中发表讲话，这是一场纪念突厥世界不同文化的晚宴，例如土耳其人、乌兹别克人和维吾尔人。
I met up with him to go there.
我和他见面是为了去那里。
He's brought bags of Uyghur breads and fried noodles for the event because an activist told him it might help him get a chance to meet with the mayor face to face.
他为这次活动带来了几袋维吾尔族面包和炒面，因为一位活动人士告诉他，这可能有助于他有机会与市长面对面会面。
The chances of this resulting in anything are slim.
产生任何结果的可能性都很渺茫。
Honestly, it's a Hail Mary.
老实说，这是万福玛丽亚。
But as down as Abdurahman was the day before, he's up now, buzzing with excitement in the car on the way over.
但阿卜杜拉赫曼前一天情绪低落，现在他已经振作起来，在来的路上兴奋地在车里嗡嗡作响。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Durrie Bouscaren I'm going there as a human being and asking them to do their duty as a human being, he tells me.
[维吾尔语] 杜里·布斯卡伦 (Durrie Bouscaren) 告诉我，我将以一个人的身份去那里，并要求他们履行作为一个人的职责。
The event is happening outside a museum under a big tent.
该活动在博物馆外的一个大帐篷下进行。
Abdurahman pulls his bags of food out of the car, and we wait for the mayor.
阿卜杜拉赫曼从车里拿出一袋袋食物，我们等待市长。
A few minutes turns into a few hours.
几分钟变成了几个小时。
He falls back into his phone, flipping through TikTok videos like usual.
他又回到手机前，像往常一样翻阅 TikTok 视频。
He looks tired.
他看起来很累。
Finally, just as the program is about to begin, the mayor sweeps in with bodyguards in tow.
最后，就在节目即将开始时，市长带着保镖闯了进来。
He's introduced, ushered onto the stage, and he speaks for about 15 minutes.
他被介绍并被带上台，并发表了大约 15 分钟的讲话。
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Durrie Bouscaren And then the mayor moves to leave.
[非英语演讲] Durrie Bouscaren 然后市长准备离开。
Abdurahman realizes that this is his chance.
阿卜杜拉赫曼意识到这是他的机会。
He needs to go now.
他现在需要走了。
But a group of admirers descends on the mayor, shaking his hand, giving him gifts.
但一群崇拜者突然来到市长身边，与他握手，赠送礼物。
Abdurahman waits on the edge, hanging back, until he sees an opening and makes his move.
阿卜杜拉赫曼在边缘等待，犹豫不决，直到他看到一个空缺并采取行动。
I stand back with our interpreter to watch.
我和翻译一起站在后面观看。
I see him going up.
我看到他往上走。
Interpreter Yeah, and there are bodyguards.
翻译是的，还有保镖。
He's like the one green sweater in a sea of moving black suits.
他就像移动的黑色西装海洋中的一件绿色毛衣。
He's trying.
他正在努力。
He's so close.
他是如此接近。
He's so close.
他是如此接近。
He just wants to shake his hand.
他只是想握他的手。
He disappears into the crowd.
他消失在人群中。
And just as the mayor is leaving the tent, he's able to wiggle through to get close enough to greet him.
当市长离开帐篷时，他能够扭动着身子，靠近他迎接他。
They shake hands.
他们握手。
It's just enough time to say hello, not to explain a story or to ask for help to find his son.
这只是打个招呼的时间，而不是解释一个故事或寻求帮助寻找他的儿子。
And the mayor moves on.
市长继续前进。
It's the same as every other time he's reached out to the Turkish government for help.
这和他每次向土耳其政府寻求帮助都是一样的。
Nothing changes.
没有任何改变。
We sent requests for comment to China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Public Security, and Ministry of Education, asking for information about Abdurahman's family.
我们向中国外交部、公安部和教育部发出了置评请求，要求提供有关阿卜杜拉赫曼家人的信息。
No response.
没有回应。
We tried the Office of the Vice President of the Xinjiang Autonomous Region and the local propaganda department.
我们尝试了新疆自治区副主席办公室和当地宣传部门。
In that case, someone did pick up, told us their fax machine was broken and that no other fax machines were available.
在这种情况下，确实有人接电话，告诉我们他们的传真机坏了，并且没有其他传真机可用。
So we summarized the questions over the phone.
所以我们通过电话总结了这些问题。
The person on the other end called it sheer nonsense and told us to go online and read the news.
电话那头的人称其纯属无稽之谈，并让我们上网看新闻。
The Chinese embassy in Washington, DC basically said the same thing.
中国驻华盛顿大使馆也基本上说了同样的话。
I asked for information on Abdurahman's family and on these cases in general.
我询问有关阿卜杜拉赫曼家人以及这些案件的总体信息。
They responded with a list of YouTube links, videos posted by China's state media service, defending the re-education camp program and claiming that people who say their families have been imprisoned are lying.
他们以一系列 YouTube 链接和中国官方媒体发布的视频作为回应，为再教育营计划辩护，并声称那些声称家人被监禁的人在撒谎。
I would suggest you check some of the rumors being exposed, they wrote.
他们写道，我建议你检查一些被曝光的谣言。
Thanks for reaching out to the embassy.
感谢您联系大使馆。
We also can't reach Peride.
我们也无法到达佩里德。
We confirmed as many details as we could about Peride and Abdurahman's life together with a friend of theirs.
我们尽可能多地确认了佩里德和阿卜杜拉赫曼以及他们的一位朋友的生活细节。
It took more than a year before Abdurahman finally saw a small glimmer of success.
花了一年多的时间，阿卜杜拉赫曼终于看到了一丝成功的曙光。
Weirdly, it was the pandemic that did it.
奇怪的是，这是大流行造成的。
This winter, news of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan started to filter out of China.
今年冬天，有关武汉爆发冠状病毒的消息开始传出中国。
The videos Abdurahman started to see on TikTok were of empty streets, people stuck at home without much to eat.
阿卜杜拉赫曼开始在 TikTok 上看到的视频是空荡荡的街道，人们被困在家里没有太多东西吃。
Some would set their videos to music pulled from zombie movies.
有些人会将他们的视频设置为僵尸电影中的音乐。
Abdurahman began to worry about Xinjiang.
阿不都热合曼开始担心新疆。
Social distancing is happening there, but the Uyghurs in prison don't have that option.
那里正在实行社会疏远，但监狱里的维吾尔人没有这种选择。
Somebody gets infected amongst the prisoners or somebody in camp, then all of them will be infected.
囚犯中或集中营中的某人被感染，那么所有人都会被感染。
So I'm worried.
所以我很担心。
And it's not just the people in prison.
不仅仅是监狱里的人。
People detained in re-education centers can also get infected or the kids who have been separated from their parents and placed in government schools.
被拘留在再教育中心的人或与父母分离并被安置在公立学校的孩子也可能被感染。
So this winter, a group of parents in Istanbul started planning a trip to the Chinese embassy, to show up in person and demand access to their children.
因此，今年冬天，伊斯坦布尔的一群家长开始计划前往中国大使馆，亲自出现并要求与他们的孩子见面。
Before anything was finalized, the parents started to get phone calls from the consulate.
在一切最终确定之前，父母开始接到领事馆的电话。
Abdurahman got one too.
阿卜杜拉赫曼也得到了一张。
It was last Friday.
那是上周五。
I came out from the Friday prayer.
我从周五的祈祷中出来。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter I was driving and transporting something to [NON-ENGLISH].
[维吾尔语] 口译员 我正在开车运送东西到 [非英语]。
And I got a phone call while I'm driving.
我在开车的时候接到一个电话。
It was an Uyghur.
这是一个维吾尔族人。
He said, I have good news for you.
他说，我有个好消息要告诉你。
The caller was a translator for the Chinese consulate.
打电话的人是中国领事馆的翻译。
He had information about Abdurahman's children, he said.
他说，他有关于阿卜杜拉赫曼孩子的信息。
Your kids are with their uncle, the caller told him, not in a boarding school.
打电话的人告诉他，你的孩子和他们的叔叔在一起，而不是在寄宿学校。
They're safe.
他们很安全。
OK, which uncle is that?
好吧，那是哪位叔叔？
And the guy said, I don't know.
那个人说，我不知道。
So I said, OK, let's meet.
所以我说，好吧，我们见面吧。
Where are you?
你在哪里？
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter And he said, no, we don't have to meet.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 他说，不，我们不必见面。
This is the only news I have.
这是我唯一的消息。
He got this call in March.
他在三月份接到这个电话。
He still has no idea if it was true or not.
他仍然不知道这是真的还是假的。
This drop of information, an unprovable bit of news that he desperately wants to hear, it could be a lie designed to placate, keep him quiet.
这个消息，一个他迫切想听到的无法证实的消息，可能是一个谎言，旨在安抚他，让他保持安静。
He knows this.
他知道这一点。
But Abdurahman insists that even if it's not true, it's still good news.
但阿卜杜拉赫曼坚持认为，即使这不是真的，这仍然是个好消息。
What this phone call means to him is that now someone in the government has finally acknowledged his jumping, and screaming, and waving his hands.
这个电话对他来说意味着，现在政府里有人终于承认了他的跳跃、尖叫和挥手。
Someone somewhere might actually be responding.
某个地方的某个人可能实际上正在做出回应。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter This is good news, but until I see them directly, I will fight for their case.
[说维吾尔语] 翻译 这是个好消息，但在我直接见到他们之前，我会为他们的案件而奋斗。
Until you see a video or until you see them here in Turkey?
直到您看到视频或直到您在土耳其看到他们？
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter Until I get them to Turkey.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 直到我把他们送到土耳其。
[SPEAKING UYGHUR] Interpreter It's about-- I meet my son and I start to take care of them as a father.
[维吾尔语] 翻译 这是关于——我遇到了我的儿子，我开始像父亲一样照顾他们。
I will not stop.
我不会停止。
For me, it's good news.
对我来说，这是个好消息。
It gives me hope.
它给了我希望。
Abdurahman has renewed hope that they'll be together again.
阿卜杜拉赫曼重新燃起了他们能再次在一起的希望。
Because this time, after four years of trying to find his family, the black box has spoken back.
因为这一次，经过四年的努力寻找家人，黑匣子终于开口了。
But even this tiny victory is short lived.
但即使是这一微小的胜利也是短暂的。
A month later, Abdurahman calls me from the road.
一个月后，阿卜杜拉赫曼在路上给我打电话。
He's driving, balancing the phone on the steering wheel.
他正在开车，平衡着方向盘上的手机。
He says a contact from TikTok who's been sending him information about Axu wrote to him to tell him that local government officials went on the village loudspeaker to make a public announcement saying anyone with information about the Tohti family, Abdurahman's family, is forbidden to share it.
他说，TikTok 的一名联系人一直向他发送有关阿旭的信息，他写信告诉他，当地政府官员通过村里的扩音器发布公告，禁止任何掌握阿卜杜拉赫曼家族信息的人分享该信息。
Look, we are now living in 21st century.
看，我们现在生活在21世纪。
And if people lose their cats or their dogs, they will have a right to look for them.
如果人们失去了猫或狗，他们将有权寻找它们。
In my case, of course, I have a right to get information about my family, as a father, as a son, but they are even forbidding me to get any information about my family members.
就我而言，当然，作为父亲、儿子，我有权获取有关我家庭的信息，但他们甚至禁止我获取有关我家庭成员的任何信息。
His fear is that they are going to disappear.
他担心它们会消失。
There would be no charges, no prison sentence, no anticipated date of their release, no communication with the outside world.
不会受到指控，不会被判入狱，不会有预计的释放日期，也不会与外界联系。
And he'll never know what became of them.
他永远不会知道他们后来怎么样了。
And what frustrates him is that right now people he knows are starting to hear news of what's happening to their families, that they've moved out of re-education centers and into low wage factory work or formal prison sentences.
让他沮丧的是，现在他认识的人开始听到他们的家人发生了什么事的消息，他们已经从再教育中心搬出来，进入低工资的工厂工作或正式入狱。
They're getting answers, but Abdurahman still knows nothing.
他们正在得到答案，但阿卜杜拉赫曼仍然一无所知。
For years, he's been fighting for information.
多年来，他一直在争取信息。
He may never get it.
他可能永远也得不到。
Act Two, State of Emergency.
第二幕，紧急状态。
So our show today is about people trying to find their way in situations where they don't have much information, or anyway the information they need.
所以我们今天的节目是关于人们试图在没有太多信息或他们需要的信息的情况下寻找出路的。
And, of course, that's the situation the whole world is in right now with the spread of COVID-19 as we try to make sense of how to treat it, how to deal with it as a society.
当然，随着 COVID-19 的传播，这就是全世界目前面临的情况，我们试图弄清楚如何对待它，如何作为一个社会来应对它。
Couple weeks ago, my co-worker Miki Meek talked to one emergency medical worker in Brooklyn, Anthony Almojera.
几周前，我的同事米基·米克 (Miki Meek) 与布鲁克林的一名急救医务人员安东尼·阿尔莫杰拉 (Anthony Almojera) 进行了交谈。
He's vice president of local 3621 of the EMS Officers Union in New York City.
他是纽约市 EMS 官员联盟当地 3621 的副主席。
EMS, emergency medical services-- it's part of the fire department.
EMS，紧急医疗服务——它是消防部门的一部分。
Even a few weeks ago, they were totally overwhelmed.
即使在几周前，他们也完全不知所措。
Anthony was out responding to an endless stream of 911 calls.
安东尼外出接听源源不断的 911 电话。
And Miki checked back in with him recently to see how he's doing.
Miki 最近再次与他联系，了解他的近况。
He said that even though the number of infections in the city has finally started to slow, his crew is still in uncharted territory.
他说，尽管该市的感染人数终于开始放缓，但他的团队仍处于未知领域。
And a lot of the calls they're getting are for cardiac arrest.
他们接到的很多电话都是关于心脏骤停的。
Apparently the virus, in addition to attacking the lungs, can also put stress on the heart and sometimes directly infect the heart.
显然，这种病毒除了攻击肺部外，还会给心脏带来压力，有时甚至会直接感染心脏。
Some days, the number of cardiac arrest calls coming into New York City's 911 system has been huge, over 300.
某些天，纽约市 911 系统接到的心脏骤停电话数量非常庞大，超过 300 个。
It's about four times higher than before the pandemic.
比大流行前高出约四倍。
Most of those people are dying at home.
这些人中的大多数人都死在家里了。
Here's Miki talking to Anthony and then to one of his colleagues.
这是米基与安东尼以及他的一位同事的谈话。
Anthony, how are you doing?
安东尼，你好吗？
Anthony Almojera I'm OK, I guess.
安东尼·阿尔莫杰拉 我想我还好。
It's still crazy.
仍然很疯狂。
This past Sunday, I did 13 cardiac arrests in a 16-hour shift.
上周日，我在 16 小时的轮班中完成了 13 次心脏骤停。
13 cardiac arrests-- what does that day look like for you?
13 次心脏骤停——那一天对你来说是什么样的？
So I wake up.
所以我醒了。
I put the uniform on.
我穿上制服。
I'm sitting there, trying to mentally get myself geared up for another day of this.
我坐在那里，努力让自己做好心理准备，迎接新的一天。
I get a Red Bull.
我买了一杯红牛。
If you're going to be in the middle of hell, you might as well be alert.
如果你即将身处地狱之中，你最好保持警惕。
And I'm going to work, and my brain is sitting there-- it's weird because my brain is sitting there going, OK, I got to get ready because I know it's coming.
我要去工作，我的大脑就坐在那里——这很奇怪，因为我的大脑坐在那里，好吧，我必须做好准备，因为我知道它即将到来。
Then it starts coming.
然后它开始出现。
6:30 in the morning, it started coming.
早上6点30分，就开始了。
I go.
我去。
Elderly gentleman-- fever, cough, symptoms.
老先生——发烧、咳嗽、有症状。
We try and work him up.
我们试着激励他。
We were unsuccessful.
我们没有成功。
I tell the family, I'm sorry.
我跟家人说，对不起。
There's nothing more we can do.
我们无能为力。
And then I go back into the truck.
然后我又回到卡车里。
I hit the button.
我按下按钮。
I get called for the other cardiac arrests.
我因其他心脏骤停而被叫去。
And I go, another family, the patient's family saying that he had a cough for five days and he was weak with chills.
我又去，另外一个家庭，病人家属说他咳嗽了五天了，浑身发冷。
We try and work him up, we're unsuccessful.
我们尝试调动他，但没有成功。
We pronounce.
我们发音。
I hit the button.
我按下按钮。
I get hit again for another cardiac arrest.
我再次因心脏骤停而受到打击。
I go.
我去。
This particular patient we weren't able to work up because he had rigor mortis, so he had been dead for a little while.
这个特殊的病人我们无法进行治疗，因为他有尸僵，所以他已经死了一段时间了。
But the family states, oh, he had fever, cough symptoms.
但是家人说哦,他有发烧,咳嗽的症状,.
So we were like, OK.
所以我们就想，好吧。
I'm sorry for your loss.
我对你的损失感到抱歉。
There's another one that happened today.
今天还发生了另一件事。
I'm sorry for your loss.
我对你的损失感到抱歉。
And then the next call-- and this is going to sound weird to the everyday person, but the next call was a suicide.
然后下一个电话——这对普通人来说听起来很奇怪，但下一个电话是自杀。
There's no fever, cough.
没有发烧、咳嗽。
So it's like, oh, a regular call, so to speak, as opposed to having to get all crazy with the gowns, and the gloves, and the masks.
所以这就像，哦，一个普通的电话，可以这么说，而不是必须为长袍、手套和口罩而疯狂。
It's such a morbid scene, but there's three of us that are like, well, this is one patient we don't have to worry about getting this virus from.
这是一个如此病态的场景，但我们三个人都想，好吧，这是一个我们不必担心感染这种病毒的病人。
And it's like, to feel relief in the middle of this tragic death-- I mean, this is somebody who felt hopeless enough to go and commit suicide.
就像，在这场悲惨的死亡中感到宽慰——我的意思是，这是一个感到绝望到想自杀的人。
We still have the empathy for him and whatnot, but hey, we're going to get through this one without getting infected by anything.
我们仍然对他抱有同情心之类的，但是，嘿，我们会在不被任何东西感染的情况下度过这一难关。
And then I hit the button.
然后我按下了按钮。
The button shows that I'm available.
该按钮表明我有空。
And I'm on my way to another cardiac arrest.
我即将迎来另一次心脏骤停。
I've never had a panic or an anxiety attack, and I feel like one is going to come on really soon.
我从未经历过恐慌或焦虑症，而且我觉得很快就会出现这种情况。
This is another paramedic in New York City I'm calling Cassandra.
这是纽约市的另一位护理人员，我称之为卡桑德拉。
She didn't want me to use her real name because she didn't get permission from the fire department to talk to me.
她不想让我使用她的真名，因为她没有得到消防部门的许可与我交谈。
I've been checking in with her regularly over the past few weeks, and she's processing her days differently than Anthony.
过去几周我一直定期与她联系，她处理日子的方式与安东尼不同。
Because she's not a lieutenant, she spends her entire 12-hour day in an ambulance.
因为她不是中尉，所以她一天 12 个小时都是在救护车里度过的。
I talked to her recently after she'd finished one of her shifts.
最近她下班后我和她聊过。
She'd gotten home at 3:00 AM and took a bubble bath to try and calm down, but it didn't work.
她凌晨 3:00 回到家，洗了个泡泡浴试图让自己平静下来，但没有效果。
How much more worse than this can it get?
还能有比这更糟糕的事吗？
We're at worst to me.
我们对我来说是最糟糕的。
This is my worst.
这是我最糟糕的。
I did 37 cardiac arrests last week.
上周我有 37 次心脏骤停。
I told somebody I'm sorry for your loss 37 times last week.
上周我对某人说了 37 次我对你的损失感到抱歉。
Yeah.
是的。
And-- yeah.
而且——是的。
I don't think I've ever done that in a year, like 37 cardiac arrests.
我想我从来没有在一年内做过这样的事情，比如 37 次心脏骤停。
That's insane to me.
这对我来说太疯狂了。
I don't even know how to explain it.
我什至不知道如何解释。
Like, my soul hurts.
就像，我的灵魂受伤了。
I'm not used to seeing all this death all at once.
我不习惯同时看到所有这些死亡。
I'm a person.
我是一个人。
I'm very strong headed.
我的头脑非常坚强。
So it's just like, if I see death it's like, OK, this happened.
所以就像，如果我看到死亡，我就会想，好吧，这件事发生了。
I process it quick.
我处理得很快。
And I'm like, I deliver my message to the family.
我想，我向家人传达了我的信息。
And it's like, damn, that was messed up.
就好像，该死的，一切都搞砸了。
And I move on.
我继续前进。
It's not like it sticks with me for a while.
它并没有像我一样坚持一段时间。
And right now that's not the case.
但现在情况并非如此。
I'm holding each and every one of them in because I don't have time to just put it away.
我把它们一一收起来，因为我没有时间把它们收起来。
I was wondering, are there any particular calls that stick with you right now?
我想知道，现在有什么特别的电话让你印象深刻吗？
There was actually one cardiac arrest that I had last week that wasn't COVID related.
事实上，上周我发生了一次与新冠病毒无关的心脏骤停。
But the guy was 107 years old, and he was fighting.
但这家伙已经107岁了，而且还在战斗。
He really wanted to live.
他真的很想活下去。
And I was shocked at that.
我对此感到震惊。
And that made me a little bit happy because I thought we were going to get him back.
这让我有点高兴，因为我以为我们会让他回来。
We didn't.
我们没有。
We pronounced him at the end, but he was fighting.
我们最后宣告了他的出局，但他仍在战斗。
He really wanted to live.
他真的很想活下去。
What do you fear most right now?
你现在最害怕什么？
Like, what's the fear that's on your mind this morning?
比如，今天早上你脑子里的恐惧是什么？
I'm a ticking bomb.
我是一颗定时炸弹。
If I don't start dealing with stuff, I'm going to blow up on my partner or on somebody.
如果我不开始处理事情，我就会对我的伴侣或某人发脾气。
And God forbid that's on a patient because I don't want to be mean to somebody that just lost a loved one, you know what I mean?
上帝禁止这样的事情发生在病人身上，因为我不想对刚刚失去亲人的人表现出刻薄，你知道我的意思吗？
I don't know how I'm going to react to not dealing with all this death constantly.
我不知道如果不经常面对这些死亡，我会有什么反应。
Do you have a plan?
你有计划吗？
Cassandra I don't.
卡桑德拉 我不知道。
I don't have time to make a plan.
我没有时间制定计划。
Anthony, when I talked to you last, it was very hard having to deliver news to people and not being able to comfort them, having to keep a distance.
安东尼，当我上次和你谈话时，很难向人们传递消息，却无法安慰他们，不得不保持距离。
And so I talked to you about a little over two weeks ago.
两周多前我就和你们谈过。
And I'm wondering, has that gotten easier for you?
我想知道，这对你来说变得更容易了吗？
Have you readjusted?
你重新调整了吗？
No, it's not easier.
不，这并不容易。
And to be honest with you, I don't want it to be easy.
老实说，我不希望事情变得容易。
If it gets easy to me, that means maybe I'm suffering from a little emotional fatigue, I'm burning out.
如果这对我来说很容易，那就意味着我可能有点情绪疲劳，我正在精疲力竭。
If I still feel sadness, that's a good thing.
如果我仍然感到悲伤，那是一件好事。
I mean, it sucks, but it's a good thing.
我的意思是，这很糟糕，但这是一件好事。
It means I'm still feeling.
这意味着我仍然有感觉。
In my head, I try to remember that the sun does come out the next day.
在我的脑海里，我努力记住第二天太阳确实会出来。
And I know that sounds corny, but it's awfully cloudy at the moment.
我知道这听起来很老套，但目前情况非常阴暗。
Yeah.
是的。
Anthony Almojera But the thing that's hard about this is, as a medic, you are eternally hopeful in the face of fighting death every day.
安东尼·阿尔莫杰拉 但困难的是，作为一名医生，每天面对死亡时你永远充满希望。
Because even if you didn't get them this time, you know that the next time you will.
因为即使你这次没有得到它们，你也知道下次你会得到它们。
But this virus out here, this pandemic, we're not getting them next time.
但这种病毒，这种流行病，我们下次不会再遇到了。
Right now about 15% of the emergency medical service workers for the New York Fire Department are out on sick leave.
目前，纽约消防局约有 15% 的紧急医疗服务人员正在休病假。
At least three are in the ICU on ventilators.
至少有三人在重症监护室使用呼吸机。
And one longtime worker, a watch commander in downtown Brooklyn named Greg Hodge, died earlier this week from COVID.
布鲁克林市中心的一名长期工人格雷格·霍奇 (Greg Hodge) 是一名值班指挥官，他于本周早些时候死于新冠肺炎。
Anthony took this news hard.
安东尼对这个消息感到很难受。
He says Greg is the one who trained him when he first came on the job.
他说格雷格是他第一次上岗时培训他的人。
Miki Meek is one of the producers of our show.
米基·米克是我们节目的制作人之一。
Just a program note after that story-- if you or somebody you know might need help, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is available 24/7 at 1-800-273-TALK.
故事结束后请注意——如果您或您认识的人可能需要帮助，请拨打 1-800-273-TALK 24/7 拨打全国自杀预防生命线。
That's 1-800-273-8255.
那是 1-800-273-8255。
By the way, the EMS unions in New York City have been in a dispute with city government.
顺便说一下，纽约市的EMS工会一直与市政府发生争执。
Starting pay for an EMT in New York is roughly $35,000.
纽约 EMT 的起薪约为 35,000 美元。
Paramedics start at $48,000.
护理人员起价为 48,000 美元。
And when the pandemic started, they asked for hazard pay since they were putting their lives on the line in a way that was more than usual and also for better benefits for their families if they should die on the job.
当大流行开始时，他们要求危险津贴，因为他们比平时更冒着生命危险，而且如果他们在工作中死亡，他们的家人也会得到更好的福利。
They have gotten nowhere with this.
他们在这方面毫无进展。
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has said he will look into it, but not until the crisis is over.
纽约市市长白思豪表示，他将对此进行调查，但要等到危机结束后才会进行。
[MUSIC - SECOND STORY, "WHEN THIS IS DONE"]
[音乐-第二个故事，“当这一切完成时”]
Our program was produced today by Robyn Semien.
今天我们的节目由罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien) 制作。
People who put our show together today includes Bim Adewunmi, Emanuele Berry, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Nora Gill, Damian Grave, Miki Meek, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Ben Phelan, Nadia Reiman, Christopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney, the managing editors Diane Wu and Sara Abdurrahman, our executive editor, David Kestenbaum.
今天制作我们节目的人员包括 Bim Adewunmi、Emanuele Berry、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Aviva DeKornfeld、Nora Gill、Damian Grave、Miki Meek、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Ben Phelan、Nadia Reiman、Christopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney、执行编辑 Diane Wu 和 Sara Abdurrahman编辑，大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Interpreters who helped us with our story in Act One, Samar Jan and Nasir Siddique.
在第一幕中为我们的故事提供帮助的口译员是萨马尔·詹 (Samar Jan) 和纳西尔·西迪克 (Nasir Siddique)。
Esther Perel's podcast, Where Shall We Begin?
Esther Perel 的播客，我们从哪里开始？
that we talked about at the top of the show is now available on Spotify and any other platform where you get your podcasts.
我们在节目开头谈到的内容现在可以在 Spotify 和任何其他可以获取播客的平台上使用。
Special thanks today to Darren Viler, Max Baucus, David Brophy, Sue Benet Romere, Usan Uyghur, and Kayla Gabler.
今天特别感谢 Darren Viler、Max Baucus、David Brophy、Sue Benet Romere、Usan Uyghur 和 Kayla Gabler。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
While on lockdown these last few weeks, he's been working on his relationship.
在过去几周的封锁期间，他一直在努力改善自己的关系。
His wife has an old Al Green record that they like to snuggle to.
他的妻子有一张阿尔·格林的旧唱片，他们喜欢依偎在上面。
It's an accelerator.
这是一个加速器。
It's a relationship accelerator.
这是关系加速器。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。