699: Fiasco! - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #699 | December 27, 2024 699: Fiasco!
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 699 集 | 2024 年 12 月 27 日 699：惨败！
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Hi, everybody.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 大家好。
Ira Glass here.
艾拉·格拉斯在这里。
So our staff is busy reporting out stories for next week's show and for other upcoming shows.
因此，我们的工作人员正忙于报道下周的节目和其他即将上映的节目的故事。
And we had a rerun scheduled for this week, and we decided in this stressful time it might be nice to keep things light and funny.
我们计划在本周重播，我们决定在这个紧张的时刻，让事情保持轻松有趣可能会更好。
And so that's what this episode is.
这就是这一集的内容。
And it has not one, but two of the most popular stories we have ever put on the air.
其中，我们播出过的最受欢迎的故事不是一个，而是两个。
The first version of this episode was broadcast over 20 years ago, back when we were distributed by Public Radio International and our episodes began with a little PRI audio logo, which-- I don't know-- I kind of miss.
本集的第一个版本已于 20 多年前播出，当时我们由国际公共广播电台发行，我们的剧集以一个 PRI 音频标志开始，我不知道这一点，我有点怀念。
Radio International.
国际广播电台。
Man --Radio International.
男人——国际广播电台。
One more time.
再一次。
Ira Glass What could be more American than the person who sees something they've never done before, dreams they could do it, goes after that dream?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：还有什么比那些看到自己以前从未做过的事情、梦想自己能做到并追求这个梦想更符合美国精神的人呢？
Well, let's begin today with a woman who dreams of directing a play in the small town where she lives, a college town, somewhere below the Mason-Dixon line in the hills of Appalachia, a town which will remain, for our purposes today, unnamed.
好吧，今天让我们从一位梦想在她居住的小镇导演一部戏剧的女人开始，那是一座大学城，位于阿巴拉契亚山区梅森-迪克森线以下的某个地方，为了我们今天的目的，这个小镇将保持未命名。
I don't think she had ever directed.
我不认为她曾经导演过。
And she claimed to have acted.
她声称已经采取行动。
And it was never really quite clear just what her credentials were.
她的资历到底是什么，从来都不是很清楚。
But she had managed to convince the local theater department of this college that she should direct a production of Peter Pan.
但她成功说服了该学院当地的戏剧系，让她执导一部《彼得潘》。
When he was in the 10th grade in 1973, Jack Hitt saw her production.
1973 年，当杰克·希特 (Jack Hitt) 读十年级时，他观看了她的作品。
And like everybody else in town, you heard about it for weeks beforehand.
和城里的其他人一样，你提前几周就听说了这件事。
Slowly, but surely, you began to hear sort of rumors about this production.
慢慢地，但可以肯定的是，你开始听到有关这部作品的一些谣言。
For example, I know that they had spent a lot of money renting these flying apparatuses out of New York.
例如，我知道他们花了很多钱从纽约租用这些飞行器。
And apparently there's like one company and a handful of these apparatuses.
显然有一家公司和一些这样的设备。
And so to get them was a major coup.
因此，获得它们是一项重大举措。
This is a story not just of a mediocre play or a terrible play.
这不仅仅是一部平庸的戏剧或一部糟糕的戏剧的故事。
When it comes right down to it, it's not even a story about a play.
归根结底，这甚至不是一个关于戏剧的故事。
This is a story about a fiasco and about what makes a fiasco.
这是一个关于惨败以及导致惨败的原因的故事。
And one ingredient of many fiascos is that great, massive, heart-wrenching chaos and failure are more likely to occur when great ambition has come into play, when plans are big, expectations great, hopes at their highest.
许多惨败的一个因素是，当雄心勃勃、计划宏大、期望很高、希望达到最高时，更可能发生巨大的、大规模的、令人心痛的混乱和失败。
And what you have to understand is that everybody in this sort of community understood that they were-- there was certainly a sort of air of everyone sort of reaching beyond their own grasp.
你必须明白的是，这种社区中的每个人都明白他们——当然每个人都有一种超出自己掌控范围的气氛。
Every actor was sort of in a role that was just a little too big for them.
每个演员所扮演的角色对他们来说都有点太大了。
Every aspect of the set and the crew-- and rumors had sort of cooked around.
布景和工作人员的各个方面——以及谣言都已经流传开来。
There was this huge crew.
有这么庞大的工作人员。
There were lots of things being painted.
有很多东西被画了。
See, but this, in fact, is one of the criteria for greatness, is that everyone is just about to reach just beyond their grasp, because that is when greatness can occur.
你看，这实际上是伟大的标准之一，就是每个人都即将达到他们力所能及的程度，因为那时伟大就会发生。
That's right.
这是正确的。
That's right.
这是正确的。
And maybe greatness could have occurred.
也许伟大的事情就会发生。
Well, today on our program, what happens when greatness does not occur?
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，当伟大没有发生时会发生什么？
What happens, in fact, when fumble leads to error leads to mishap and before you know it you have left the realm of ordinary mistake and chaos, and you have entered into the more ethereal, specialized realm of fiasco?
事实上，当失误导致错误导致灾难时，在你意识到之前，你已经离开了普通错误和混乱的领域，进入了更空灵、更专业的惨败领域，会发生什么？
Today's show, "Fiascos-- A Philosophical Inquiry," perhaps the first ever, as far as we know, into what makes a fiasco, what takes our ordinary lives that extra distance into fiasco.
今天的节目“惨败——哲学探究”，据我们所知，也许是有史以来第一次探讨是什么造成了惨败，是什么让我们的平凡生活远离了惨败。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
There is much, much more to learn about fiascos in this hour.
在这一个小时里，关于惨败，还有很多很多东西需要了解。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We begin our show with this true fable of Peter Pan in Act One, "Opening Night."
我们以第一幕“开幕之夜”中彼得潘的真实寓言开始我们的节目。
Opening night comes and, you know, well, almost everybody in the area in the 10-mile radius of this theater knows somebody in this production, so the place is pretty much packed.
开幕之夜到来了，你知道，这个剧院方圆 10 英里范围内的几乎每个人都认识这部作品中的某个人，所以这个地方几乎挤满了人。
And I don't know if you remember the opening moment of Peter Pan, but it's the three little kids sleeping in their bed.
我不知道你是否还记得《彼得潘》的开场时刻，三个小孩子睡在床上。
And Peter Pan comes flying in the window.
彼得潘从窗户飞了进来。
And in this particular production, there's a big bed with all the three kids in it.
在这部特别的作品中，有一张大床，三个孩子都在上面。
And off to the left, I remember, is a big, huge wardrobe, and there's a large window there and a little bureau.
我记得左边有一个很大很大的衣柜，那里有一扇大窗户和一个小柜子。
And Peter Pan comes in and has a little speech where he says, anybody can fly.
彼得·潘进来发表了一段简短的演讲，他说，任何人都可以飞。
Why, with just a little magic dust, one can fly.
为什么，只要一点点魔法粉末，就可以飞翔。
And Peter Pan sort of sprinkles this magic dust in the air.
彼得·潘将这种神奇的灰尘撒在空气中。
And sure enough, the kids sort of suddenly just lurch into the air.
果然，孩子们突然跌倒在空中。
[LAUGHS] Jack Hitt And it becomes clear right away that the people that they've hired to run these flying apparatuses really aren't quite clear on how they actually work.
[笑] 杰克·希特 很明显，他们雇佣来运行这些飞行器的人实际上并不太清楚它们实际上是如何工作的。
So instead of the kids sort of sailing gracefully to and fro, they sort of hang in the air like puppets, just sort of dangling there and sort of getting jerked up an inch or two or back and forth.
因此，孩子们不再优雅地来回航行，而是像木偶一样悬挂在空中，只是悬在那里，然后被猛拉一两英寸或来回。
And then sometimes they're just stationary?
有时它们只是静止的？
Yeah, just hanging there like a spider.
是的，就像蜘蛛一样挂在那里。
And then several of them start to sort of circumscribe these circles in the air, where it's clear that the people running the machines have just sort of set them off on these oval courses that spiral farther and farther out.
然后，其中一些开始在空中划出这些圆圈，很明显，操作机器的人只是让它们沿着这些椭圆形的轨迹旋转，越来越远。
[LAUGHTER] And if you were sitting in the audience, there was clearly a sense of fear on the faces of these people.
[笑声]如果你坐在观众席上，这些人的脸上显然有一种恐惧感。
Of the actors?
演员的？
Jack Hitt The actors.
杰克·希特 演员。
The actors, actually, you could sense their lack of confidence, shall we say--
演员们，实际上，你可以感觉到他们缺乏自信，我们可以说——
[LAUGHS] Jack Hitt --in the people running the machines in the back.
[笑]杰克·希特——在后面运行机器的人。
So they--
所以他们——
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
And the audience reaction to this point is just-- are they laughing?
观众对此的反应只是——他们在笑吗？
No one is laughing.
没有人在笑。
One of the great things about audiences, especially in a live theater production, is that they're very forgiving.
观众的一大优点，尤其是在现场戏剧制作中，就是他们非常宽容。
They want the show to work.
他们希望节目能够成功。
And so everyone is sort of gripping their chair a little tightly.
所以每个人都有点紧紧地握住他们的椅子。
We feel for them.
我们同情他们。
They're up there-- they're embarrassing themselves for us.
他们就在那儿——他们在为我们丢脸。
And so the audience, I think, was very forgiving and very understanding of this moment.
所以我认为观众对这一刻非常宽容和理解。
But there was one moment in this first opening scene that kind of put the audience on notice.
但在第一个开场场景中，有一个时刻引起了观众的注意。
And that's when, as the kids are sort of jerking up and down, and swinging back and forth, and sort of going around in these ovals, at one point the littlest one, the little boy, is sort of being flung around a little too--
就在那时，当孩子们上下猛拉、来回摇摆、在这些椭圆形中转来转去时，在某一时刻，最小的那个小男孩也被抛来抛去——
Well, he has the least mass to resist, whatever the machinery is doing to him.
好吧，无论机器对他做什么，他的抵抗力都是最小的。
And so he's flying around in a circle.
所以他绕着圈飞。
And the audience sort of sees this coming.
观众似乎已经预见到了这一点。
And there's a real sense of pain, and gripping of the chair, and white-knuckledness as the kid suddenly does just an enormous splat into the wardrobe.
当孩子突然猛地一摔进衣柜时，我会感觉到一种真正的痛苦，紧握椅子，以及紧张的感觉。
And it's clear that he's hurt.
很明显他受伤了。
[LAUGHTER] And he comes off of it sort of a little dazed.
[笑声] 结束后他有点茫然。
And then, of course, he's jerked up in the air a little bit and often a little too high so that he's suddenly sort of in the workings.
然后，当然，他会在空中猛拉一点，而且通常有点太高，这样他就会突然开始工作。
He's sort of left the stage itself.
他已经离开了舞台。
He's now up there with the lights.
他现在就在灯火通明的地方。
Then all of a sudden, he just sort of--
然后突然间，他有点——
[LAUGHTER] Suddenly, he would just plummet back down to the stage and be caught up just before he hit the floor.
[笑声] 突然，他会跌落到舞台上，然后在落地之前被抓住。
[LAUGHS] It was hard to watch because, as you can tell, it's an incredibly funny moment.
[笑]这很难观看，因为正如你所知，这是一个非常有趣的时刻。
But like I say, the audience was still in this very forgiving mode.
但就像我说的，观众仍然处于这种非常宽容的模式。
And no one said a word.
没有人说一句话。
We just all sat there sort of holding our breath.
我们都坐在那里屏住呼吸。
And there's that weird tension of being in the audience thinking, oh, oh my goodness.
观众心里有一种奇怪的紧张感，心想，哦，哦天哪。
They have gotten off to a very bad start.
他们的开局非常糟糕。
Oh, this is not good.
哦，这可不好。
And we feel for them.
我们对他们感同身受。
May I just interrupt for just a moment--
我可以打断一下吗——
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass --just to say-- because after all, we are not just joined here together on the radio, you and I, today to laugh at the foibles of the unfortunate.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）——只是想说——因为毕竟，我们今天不只是在广播中聚集在一起，嘲笑不幸者的缺点。
No, no. We're here to enumerate the qualities of a fiasco.
不，不。我们来这里是为了列举一场惨败的品质。
At this point, we are not yet in the territory of fiasco.
目前，我们还没有陷入惨败的境地。
No, no. Because, like I say, audiences are forgiving.
不，不。因为，就像我说的，观众是宽容的。
And one or two mistakes, even big ones like this, they're going to let that ride.
一两个错误，即使是像这样的大错误，他们也会放任不管。
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
Jack Hitt We did.
杰克·希特 我们做到了。
We did.
我们做到了。
We were very good.
我们都很好。
So we are not yet at fiasco.
所以我们还没有遭遇惨败。
We are at a sort of normal level of mishap.
我们正处于一种正常的事故水平。
Right.
正确的。
What happens immediately after this, they disappear to Never Never Land.
紧接着发生的事情是，他们消失到梦幻岛。
And if you remember, the stage goes dark.
如果你还记得的话，舞台就黑了。
And then when the lights come up, there's Captain Hook.
当灯光亮起时，胡克船长就出现了。
And he's giving his first opening soliloquy about how evil he is, and what a menace he is, and how he harms people, and hates children.
他的第一个开场独白讲述了他是多么邪恶，他是一个多么大的威胁，以及他如何伤害人们，憎恨孩子。
And it's all that good stuff.
这都是好东西。
And so Captain Hook is out there.
所以胡克船长就在那里。
He looks great.
他看起来很棒。
He's got one one of those big, old, fat hats, and this great hook, and these wild looking boots and everything.
他有一顶又大又旧又肥的帽子，还有这个大钩子，还有这些看起来狂野的靴子等等。
And people are feeling more confident.
人们感觉更加自信。
Something's happening.
有事发生了。
It's a good sign.
这是一个好兆头。
It's a good sign.
这是一个好兆头。
And he's in charge.
他负责。
This guy, he's got a bad mustache, and he is certainly evil.
这个家伙，他的胡子很糟糕，他肯定是邪恶的。
Yes.
是的。
Jack Hitt And the audience is totally in his pocket.
杰克·希特 观众完全在他的口袋里。
He's speaking away, and gesturing wildly, and going on and on about how bad he is.
他滔滔不绝地说着话，打着疯狂的手势，不停地说着他有多么糟糕。
And then at a certain point, as he gestures, his hook and the entire black casing up to his elbow flings off of his hand and flies into the audience, and punches an old lady in the gut.
然后在某个时刻，当他做出手势时，他的钩子和直到肘部的整个黑色外壳从他的手上甩下来，飞向观众，击中了一位老太太的腹部。
He is bad.
他很糟糕。
Jack Hitt He's very bad.
杰克·希特 他很糟糕。
He had the worst ad lib I've ever heard.
他的即兴表演是我听过的最糟糕的。
I mean, what do you say at that point?
我的意思是，此时你会说什么？
Because, of course, his hand is now nakedly exposed to the audience.
当然，因为他的手现在赤裸裸地暴露在观众面前。
Very, very hard.
非常非常难。
Ira Glass If the premise of your character is that you have a hook, your name is Captain Hook, literally all that's going to happen for the rest of the show is people are going to refer to you by that hook.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 如果你的角色的前提是你有一个钩子，那么你的名字是胡克船长，从字面上看，在节目的其余部分中将发生的所有事情就是人们会用那个钩子来指代你。
Your entire motivation as a character is the fact that you're--
作为一个角色，你的全部动机就是你——
[LAUGHTER] --is that your arm was eaten off by an alligator and that you have to have a--
[笑声]——你的手臂被鳄鱼吃掉了，你必须有——
The entire plot-- Ira Glass --and you have a hook.
整个情节——艾拉·格拉斯——你有一个钩子。
--stems from that fact.
——源于这个事实。
Ira Glass And now suddenly, you have no hook.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 现在突然之间，你就没有了钩子。
In fact, you have five fingers on a hand.
事实上，你的手上有五个手指。
Captain Hook said, you know, they just don't make those hooks like they used to.
胡克船长说，你知道，他们只是不再像以前那样制作那些钩子了。
That was actually the ad lib.
这实际上是即兴表演。
I will never forget it.
我永远不会忘记它。
Then the lights come up, and we are in Never Never Land.
然后灯亮了，我们就到了梦幻岛。
In act two?
在第二幕中？
Jack Hitt Yeah, this is act two.
杰克·希特 是的，这是第二幕。
And Captain Hook might have stood in front of the set, but you didn't really see it because he spoke from shadow.
胡克船长可能站在布景前面，但你并没有真正看到它，因为他在阴影中说话。
And now the lights come up, and it's supposed to be a very dramatic moment.
现在灯光亮起，这应该是一个非常戏剧性的时刻。
The rumors of all this crew, and the painting, and everything that was going on, and all this construction all worked towards this one moment.
所有剧组的谣言、这幅画、以及正在发生的一切，以及所有这些建设，都是为了这一刻。
Because when the lights came up, here was Never Never Land, this sort of psychedelic set.
因为当灯光亮起时，这里就是梦幻岛，这种迷幻的场景。
There were papier-maché mushrooms everywhere of different sizes.
到处都是大小不一的纸浆蘑菇。
It was absolutely wonderful and surreal.
这绝对是美妙而超现实的。
Wow.
哇。
Jack Hitt And there's nobody there.
杰克·希特 那里没有人。
And then from the upper rafters of stage right, suddenly the kids and Peter Pan appear.
然后，从舞台右侧的上椽子上，孩子们和彼得潘突然出现了。
Flying?
飞行？
Jack Hitt Flying.
杰克·希特飞翔。
They're flying.
他们在飞。
And their landing-- their landing occurs rather rapidly, at an angle of about 45 degrees to the stage.
他们的着陆——他们的着陆发生得相当快，与舞台的角度大约是 45 度。
They come down basically like-- I don't know-- lead sinkers on a line and crash to the floor, and then are sort of just dragged across the floor like mops, and wipe out all of the mushrooms.
它们基本上就像——我不知道——铅坠落在一条线上，坠落到地板上，然后像拖把一样被拖过地板，然后消灭所有蘑菇。
And so now have we arrived at a turning point in our fiasco?
那么现在我们的惨败已经到了转折点了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, it's clear now that the audience is giving way.
是的，现在很明显观众已经让路了。
Something has been lost, some sense of decorum, that little bit of forgiveness that the audience has for the actors.
失去了一些东西，一些礼仪感，以及观众对演员的一点点宽容。
And empathy.
和同理心。
Jack Hitt And empathy.
杰克·希特和同理心。
It's beginning to dissipate.
它开始消散。
Well, there was a split in the audience.
好吧，观众中出现了分歧。
Sort of the younger people who were the least forgiving, they started to go first, OK?
那些最不宽容的年轻人，他们开始先走，好吗？
So the high school students, couple of college students maybe, they started to laugh out loud.
于是高中生，也许还有几个大学生，他们开始大声笑起来。
And I'll be honest, Ira, I might have been one of those first people to laugh.
老实说，艾拉，我可能是最先笑的人之一。
I was in the 10th grade.
我当时上十年级。
It was hard to not laugh at this.
看到这里很难不笑。
But then whatever restraint that the audience had, it just evaporated at this point because there were a number of things that happened in quick succession that just made it impossible to hold any sense of decorum.
但无论观众有多么的克制，在这一点上都消失了，因为接连发生了很多事情，让他们无法保持任何礼仪。
Which are?
哪些是？
Jack Hitt For example, Tinker Bell appears for the first time around this moment.
例如，杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）在此时首次出现了小叮当（Tinker Bell）。
And Tinker Bell is essentially a light bulb on an extension cord.
小叮当本质上是一个延长线上的灯泡。
What?
什么？
Jack Hitt Yeah.
杰克·希特 是的。
And this was the director's idea of being raw, being very modern.
这就是导演的原始理念，非常现代。
Tinker Bell was just going to be this literal light bulb dangling from an extension cord.
小叮当只不过是一个挂在延长线上的灯泡。
Whereas in other productions, what they do is that someone will shine a light.
而在其他作品中，他们所做的就是有人发出光芒。
A beam of focused light, and then that pinprick of light is supposed to be Tinker Bell.
一束聚焦的光，然后那个小光应该是小叮当。
That's right, or something like that or nothing at all.
是的，或者类似的东西，或者什么都没有。
And people just address the invisible sprite.
人们只是针对看不见的精灵。
Well, that did not happen in this case.
好吧，在本例中并没有发生这种情况。
This bulb comes just dangling down and sort of hangs around.
这个灯泡刚来时就悬垂着，有点悬在周围。
A bare light bulb?
一个裸露的灯泡？
Jack Hitt --just hangs around, and people are talking to it.
杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）——只是闲逛，人们正在与它交谈。
And I think Tinker Bell-- Tinker Bell must have had an appearance in the first act, but it was somewhere in here that people just started laughing at this.
我认为小叮当——小叮当一定在第一幕中出现过，但正是在这里的某个地方，人们才开始嘲笑这一点。
[LAUGHS] Jack Hitt Then another thing that happened was later on in this scene, if you remember, Wendy gets trapped on an island.
[笑]杰克·希特 然后，在这个场景的后面发生了另一件事，如果你还记得的话，温迪被困在一个岛上。
And she spots a kite that's flying by, and she's supposed to grab it and attach it to her back and fly off.
她发现一只风筝飞过，她应该抓住它并将其挂在背上然后飞走。
Well, of course, the kite is attached to the flying apparatus line.
嗯，当然，风筝是连接在飞行器线上的。
And it gets closer and closer to her.
而且距离她也越来越近了。
She's standing on this little papier-maché hill.
她站在这座纸浆小山上。
But the flying apparatus people can't quite get it close enough to her to reach.
但人们无法将飞行器拉得离她足够近，无法触及。
So she has to step out into the water that she's just told us is filled with crocodiles to grab it.
所以她必须走进她刚刚告诉我们充满鳄鱼的水中才能抓住它。
She finally gets the kite.
她终于拿到了风筝。
And when she yanks on it, it pops off the flying apparatus.
当她猛拉它时，它就会从飞行装置上弹出。
And the hook goes zinging up into the lights and catches.
然后钩子就会上升到灯光下并被钩住。
[LAUGHTER] So now there is this big loop of wire hanging in front of the stage, and there's Wendy holding the kite.
[笑声] 现在舞台前挂着一个大线圈，温迪拿着风筝。
And she ad libbed as best she could, as I remember.
我记得她尽可能地即兴发挥。
She sort of said, on second thought, maybe I can swim.
转念一想，她好像说，也许我会游泳。
And with that, she walked off the stage, sort of motioning her arms like you would do the swim, the dance in 1965.
说完，她走下舞台，挥动手臂，就像 1965 年游泳和跳舞一样。
So she does that.
所以她就这么做了。
At this point, I mean, the actors are just falling apart.
在这一点上，我的意思是，演员们都崩溃了。
They are so frightened of the audience.
他们太害怕观众了。
There are just belly laughs rolling up to the stage from the audience.
观众席上只剩下捧腹大笑。
People are howling with laughter at every mistake.
人们对每一个错误都会哈哈大笑。
And now any small mistake just takes on these-- any instigation for laughter is just enough for this audience.
而现在，任何一个小错误都会承担这些——任何引人发笑的行为都足以让观众们满意。
And now the old people have given it up.
现在老人家已经放弃了。
Everyone has quit being nice.
每个人都不再友善了。
Now there's just this kind of frightening roar that comes from the audience every time there's a mistake.
现在，每当出现错误时，观众都会发出这种可怕的吼叫声。
Well, what happened?
嗯，发生了什么事？
At some point, the audience turned and realized, oh, wait.
在某个时刻，观众转过身来意识到，哦，等等。
I realize what's going on here.
我意识到这里发生了什么事。
This is a fiasco.
这是一场惨败。
Yeah, this is a fiasco.
是的，这是一场惨败。
And what's really interesting about a fiasco is that once it starts to tumble down, the audience wants to push it further along.
一场惨败的真正有趣之处在于，一旦它开始崩溃，观众就会想把它推得更远。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Ira Glass If the play proceeded perfectly, they would be disappointed.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 如果比赛进展顺利，他们会感到失望。
Oh, it would have been a grave disappointment had there not been just one more mistake after another, one more embarrassment after another.
哦，如果不是一错再错、一桩又一桩尴尬，那就太令人失望了。
Now the reason they're there is to chronicle these embarrassments.
现在他们来这里的原因是为了记录这些尴尬。
This is why I have remembered this play for 25 years.
这就是为什么我25年来一直记得这部戏。
Towards act three, the director had decided that she wanted to break down the fourth wall.
在第三幕中，导演决定她要打破第四堵墙。
This was cutting edge theater, as far as she was concerned.
就她而言，这是最先进的戏剧。
Before you do this, I just want to explain-- when we say breaking down the fourth wall, what we mean is the wall between the actors and the audience.
在你这样做之前，我只想解释一下——当我们说打破第四堵墙时，我们指的是演员和观众之间的墙。
Usually it's impermeable, but then there came a point in the late '60s, early '70s where a lot of theaters, basically the actors would come out into the audience.
通常它是不可渗透的，但后来到了 60 年代末、70 年代初，很多剧院，基本上演员都会出现在观众面前。
That's right, and interact with the audience, and break down that wall, so the idea being that you would get more in touch with the dramatic sense and the reality of what was happening.
没错，与观众互动，打破那堵墙，所以我们的想法是，你会更多地接触到正在发生的事情的戏剧性和现实性。
Anyway, so in this particular scene, what was going to happen was that the Indians were going to throw rope ladders down from the balcony, and climb down these rope ladders into the audience, and move among the audience, and frighten us.
不管怎样，在这个特定的场景中，接下来要发生的事情是，印第安人将从阳台上扔下绳梯，然后顺着这些绳梯爬到观众席上，在观众席间移动，吓唬我们。
Anyway, I knew about this scene because my friend David, who I went to high school with, was in it.
不管怎样，我知道这个场景是因为我高中时的朋友大卫也在其中。
So when David was climbing over the top of this balcony to climb down the rope, he lost his footing and fell to the floor from the balcony, a distance of about 15 to 20 feet.
因此，当大卫爬过这个阳台顶部准备顺着绳子爬下来时，他失去了立足点，从阳台上摔到了地板上，距离大约有15到20英尺。
That's horrible.
太可怕了。
Jack Hitt Yeah.
杰克·希特 是的。
And he landed on both of his feet and sprained both of his ankles, and, of course, curled into a fetal position and began to cry.
他双脚着地，扭伤了双脚踝，当然，他蜷缩成胎儿的姿势，开始哭泣。
He was really, really hurt.
他真的非常非常受伤。
Now, to appreciate the horrible moment I'm now describing, also understand that it's a Friday night, we are in a college town, and there is a volunteer fire and ambulance department.
现在，要体会我现在描述的可怕时刻，还要了解这是一个星期五晚上，我们在一个大学城，并且有一个志愿消防和救护部门。
And in order to summon the rescuers from wherever they are, an alarm is sounded that can be heard for five miles.
为了召唤救援人员，无论他们身在何处，都会发出警报，五英里外都能听到。
That alarm is located right over this theater.
那个警报器就位于这个剧院的正上方。
So the alarm goes off, OK?
那么闹钟就响了，好吗？
This is an air raid siren.
这是空袭警报。
It is so loud, you can put your fingers in your ear and it's still hurting your ears.
声音太大了，你可以把手指放进耳朵里，耳朵还是疼。
We're right under it.
我们就在它下面。
It can be heard for five miles.
五英里之外都能听到。
And then, of course, three minutes later, busting through the door of the theater, are these 15 firemen, who are in boots, hats.
当然，三分钟后，这 15 名消防员冲进了剧院的门，他们穿着靴子，戴着帽子。
They got hoses.
他们有软管。
They don't know what it is.
他们不知道那是什么。
All they know is that they've been sent out on a call.
他们只知道他们被派去接电话了。
And to sort of add to the chaos, the director, of course, has sort of flogged the actors that the show must go on.
当然，为了增加混乱，导演对演员进行了鞭打，要求演出必须继续进行。
No matter what.
无论。
Jack Hitt So no matter what.
杰克·希特 所以无论如何。
So while all of this is happening and several people are attending to David, and other people have just now decided that since the firemen are here he's going to be fine, they can start laughing.
因此，当这一切发生时，有几个人正在照顾大卫，而其他人刚刚决定，既然消防员在这里，他会没事的，他们可以开始大笑。
And now the audience has just completely lost control.
而现在观众完全失去了控制。
People are standing up in their seats and shouting for more.
人们从座位上站起来，呼喊着要求更多。
They want blood.
他们想要血。
I mean, at this point, people are actually injured in the production, and they want more.
我的意思是，在这一点上，人们实际上在制作中受伤了，他们想要更多。
Somehow that's how this entire play ended.
不知何故，整部剧就这样结束了。
What's interesting about this as a fiasco-- I feel like the thing it makes me understand about fiascos is that the fiasco itself is an altered state.
作为一场惨败，有趣的是——我觉得它让我对惨败的理解是，惨败本身就是一种改变的状态。
That is, all the normal rules are off.
也就是说，所有正常的规则都被取消了。
You have left the normal rules of how the audience is going to interact with the actors.
你已经离开了观众与演员互动的正常规则。
Right.
正确的。
I've never seen a production like this, and I've never seen an audience collapse like this.
我从未见过这样的作品，也从未见过观众如此崩溃。
See, but I wonder, when you think about what people go to theater for, like what kind of release people want, I mean, people want an experience that will take them out of themselves.
瞧，但我想知道，当你想到人们去剧院的目的时，比如人们想要什么样的版本，我的意思是，人们想要一种能让他们摆脱自我的体验。
We all want an experience that will take us out of ourselves and into another place and another reality.
我们都希望有一种体验能够带我们走出自我，进入另一个地方和另一个现实。
And it sounds like this production, even though it was a fiasco, in fact, because it was a fiasco, was more successful at that than any conventional play could be.
听起来这部作品虽然是一场惨败，但事实上，因为它是一场惨败，所以在这方面比任何传统戏剧都更成功。
Well, see, I would disagree with you.
好吧，你看，我不同意你的观点。
See, I think the old theater critics, the ancients, would say that the reason you go to the theater and to see a great production is to be-- I think the word they used to use is "transported," the idea being that you would be lifted away from your animal nature and into these higher, more spiritual realms or get in touch with these greater tragic emotions.
你看，我认为古老的戏剧评论家、古人会说，你去剧院观看一部伟大作品的原因是——我认为他们过去使用的词是“传送”，这个词的意思是你会脱离你的动物本性，进入这些更高、更精神的领域，或者接触到这些更大的悲剧情感。
Of course, what happened here was the exact opposite.
当然，这里发生的情况恰恰相反。
We get transported directly in touch with our animal being.
我们直接与我们的动物接触。
Our baser selves.
我们卑鄙的自己。
Jack Hitt Right.
杰克·希特 对。
But that's almost as rare, if not more so, than a great production.
但这几乎和伟大的作品一样罕见，甚至更罕见。
Jack Hitt, he's the co-host of a great Peabody Award-winning podcast about race and history called Uncivil, which, if you are looking for something to listen to during this national home lockdown or on your commute to your essential job, I really recommend that.
杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）是皮博迪奖获奖播客《Uncivil》的共同主持人，该播客关于种族和历史，名为 Uncivil，如果您想在全国居家隔离期间或在上班路上听点什么，我强烈推荐您收听该播客。
Jack says, by the way, that people ask him about this Peter Pan story still, all these years later.
顺便说一句，杰克说，这么多年过去了，人们仍然向他询问彼得潘的故事。
In the year since we first ran this, we got a letter from one of the actors in that production that Jack saw, a guy who played a pirate, who told us Jack, quote, "did not go far enough.
自从我们第一次运行这个节目的那一年，我们收到了杰克看到的该作品中的一位演员的来信，一个扮演海盗的人，他告诉我们杰克，引用，“做得还不够远。
He only covered the opening night.
他只报道了开幕之夜。
The subsequent performances were no better."
随后的表现也不见好转。”
[MUSIC - "I WON'T GROW UP" BY RICKIE LEE JONES]
[音乐 - 瑞奇·李·琼斯的《我不会长大》]
(SINGING) I won't grow up.
（唱歌）我不会长大。
I don't wanna go to school just to learn to be a puppet and recite a silly rule.
我不想上学只是为了学习成为一个木偶并背诵一些愚蠢的规则。
If growing up means it would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree, I won't grow up, won't grow up, won't grow up, not me.
如果长大意味着爬树有损我的尊严，那么我不会长大，不会长大，不会长大，不是我。
Act Two, "Squirrel Cop." Well, human error is often at the heart of a fiasco, but what happens when you combine human error with, what we'll call in this case, animal error?
第二幕“松鼠警察”好吧，人为错误往往是惨败的核心，但是当你将人为错误与我们在这种情况下称之为动物错误结合起来时会发生什么？
We have this story of a police officer in a suburban community on the East Coast.
我们有一个关于东海岸郊区社区一名警察的故事。
There was nothing, nothing going on-- Saturday night in this village, really quiet, super cold.
什么都没有，什么都没有发生——星期六晚上，这个村子里非常安静，超级寒冷。
And this call came over for unknown animal in a house.
这个电话是因为房子里有未知的动物而发出的。
And it was on my post.
它就在我的帖子上。
It was about five minutes away.
大约五分钟路程就到了。
So myself and another car were assigned the call, and we show up there.
因此，我和另一辆车被分配了呼叫，我们出现在那里。
And luckily for me, it was another guy who was pretty new.
对我来说幸运的是，这是另一个新人。
So we walk up to the door with all our stuff on-- the nylon coat, the vest, the belt, the whole nine yards.
于是我们带着所有东西走到门口——尼龙外套、背心、腰带，整整九码。
And the door opens.
门打开了。
And the guy who is behind the door, he's about 30.
门后面的那个人大约30岁。
I was 23 at the time.
当时我23岁。
He's about 30.
他大约30岁。
He looks like a broker or a lawyer, just really well put together, nice guy, wearing glasses.
他看起来就像一个经纪人或律师，非常好，好人，戴着眼镜。
He's wearing these silk pajamas with a monogram.
他穿着这些带有花押字的丝绸睡衣。
Got my attention.
引起了我的注意。
Wow.
哇。
Police Officer And he's going, listen, really sorry to bother you.
警官 他要走了，听着，很抱歉打扰你。
Normally I'd handle this sort of stuff on my own, but my wife really insisted that I call.
通常这种事情我都会自己处理，但我妻子坚持要我打电话。
And so we ask him what the problem is.
所以我们问他问题是什么。
He says, well, we were having kind of a romantic evening down in the living room, and we heard this scratching upstairs.
他说，好吧，我们在客厅里度过了一个浪漫的夜晚，我们听到楼上有刮擦声。
So I ran upstairs to see what it was.
于是我跑上楼看看那是什么。
And it turns out it's coming from the attic.
事实证明它来自阁楼。
There's something up there, and it's just running around, knocking a few small things over.
上面有东西，它只是跑来跑去，撞倒了一些小东西。
I can't tell what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
It could be a squirrel, a raccoon.
它可能是一只松鼠，一只浣熊。
I really don't know.
我真的不知道。
So the other cop that I was with said, well, we really don't handle that.
和我在一起的另一位警察说，好吧，我们真的不处理这个问题。
It's not so much a police function.
这与其说是警察职能。
But we do have numbers of these private contractors who will come in, and they'll put a humane trap down, and they'll remove the animal for you.
但我们确实有很多私人承包商会进来，他们会设置人道陷阱，然后为你移走动物。
And it's really not such a big deal, but it's really not our thing.
这确实不是什么大不了的事，但这确实不是我们的事。
So right as he was in the middle of saying that and getting us off the hook, the guy swings the door back.
就在他正要说这句话并让我们摆脱困境时，那家伙把门向后打开了。
And there's his wife, who was just beautiful.
还有他的妻子，非常漂亮。
She was beautiful.
她很漂亮。
She was probably about 26 or 27, but just really beautiful, like perfect skin, long blonde hair, great teeth, brilliant blue eyes, a really nice smile, just beautiful and friendly.
她大概26或27岁左右，但真的很漂亮，比如完美的皮肤、长长的金发、漂亮的牙齿、明亮的蓝眼睛、非常漂亮的微笑，美丽而友善。
If she had said, eat this broken glass, I just would have said, OK, broken glass it is.
如果她说，吃掉这个碎玻璃，我就会说，好吧，就是碎玻璃。
That's fine.
没关系。
But she seemed really nice, so I was going to be like Galahad.
但她看起来真的很好，所以我会像加拉哈德那样。
So I just threw my arm back into this guy's chest, into my partner's chest.
所以我只是把我的手臂放回到这个家伙的胸膛，进入我伴侣的胸膛。
I said, Mark, we can handle this.
我说，马克，我们可以处理这件事。
[LAUGHS] Police Officer It'll be OK.
[笑]警官 没事的。
And she was just, you know, thank you so much.
她只是，你知道，非常感谢你。
And she was really sweet.
她真的很甜蜜。
And I was struck dead.
而我却被打死了。
So we walk inside.
所以我们走进去。
And she goes, I'm going to throw a pot of coffee on.
她说，我要倒一壶咖啡。
And we go upstairs.
我们上楼。
We follow the man of the house upstairs.
我们跟着男主人上楼。
And we're underneath one of those trap doors that goes into the attic with a staircase that folds out.
我们位于一扇通往阁楼的活板门下面，有一个可折叠的楼梯。
And we do hear an animal upstairs scratching away, just scuttling around the floor.
我们确实听到楼上有一只动物在抓挠，在地板上乱窜。
And there's definitely something up there, and it's making pretty good speed up going from one end of the roof to the other.
上面肯定有东西，而且它从屋顶的一端到另一端的速度相当快。
So I reached up, and I took the trapdoor down.
于是我伸出手，把活板门拉了下来。
We unfolded the ladder.
我们展开了梯子。
And I have this big, heavy flashlight, like your cop flashlight-- 4D cells, the metal case, the whole thing.
我有一个又大又重的手电筒，就像你的警察手电筒一样——4D 电池、金属外壳，整个东西。
I shine it up through the hole in there, and it's pretty black.
我从那里的洞里照到它，它很黑。
I can see the rafters, but really nothing else around there.
我可以看到椽子，但周围什么也没有。
And I start up the ladder.
我开始爬上梯子。
Now the guy who owned the house is standing almost directly underneath me, just to the side of the ladder, looking straight up at me.
现在，房子的主人几乎就站在我的正下方，就在梯子的一侧，直视着我。
And my partner's at the base of the ladder, right behind me.
我的搭档就在梯子的底部，就在我身后。
So just before I stuck my head through this black hole, I just paused.
所以就在我把头伸进这个黑洞之前，我停了下来。
I crunched my body up underneath 'cause I'm realizing, gee, I don't know where this thing is.
我把身体压在下面，因为我意识到，天哪，我不知道这东西在哪里。
The second we pull down the trap door, all noise upstairs just ceased.
当我们拉下活板门的那一刻，楼上的所有噪音就停止了。
So I was kind of nervous.
所以我有点紧张。
And I was like, well, I look like an idiot just crouched up here on the top of the ladder.
我当时想，好吧，我看起来就像一个蹲在梯子顶上的白痴。
So I took the flashlight, and I just popped my head up, turned the light on again.
于是我拿起手电筒，抬起头，再次打开灯。
And about six inches from the front of my face was this squirrel at eye level with me, kind of reared back on its legs.
距离我脸前约六英寸处，有一只松鼠，与我的视线齐平，有点用腿向后仰着。
And I swear, from where I was standing, it looked like Godzilla.
我发誓，从我站的地方看，它看起来就像哥斯拉。
It just scared the heck out of me.
这简直把我吓坏了。
I thought, it's a squirrel.
我想，这是一只松鼠。
It's going to be hiding somewhere.
它会躲在某个地方。
It's going to be terrified of me.
它会害怕我的。
It was six inches away from me.
它离我有六英寸远。
And it really startled me, so I kind of went, ah, and jumped back.
这真的让我吃了一惊，所以我就走了，啊，然后跳了回来。
And the flashlight slips out of my hands.
手电筒从我手中滑落。
It's heavy.
它很重。
And it falls directly onto the nose of the guy who's looking straight up at me.
它直接落在那个直视我的家伙的鼻子上。
And I don't think it broke it, but it did some damage.
我不认为它破坏了它，但它造成了一些损害。
And his nose-- his hands went up to his face.
还有他的鼻子——他的手举到了脸上。
Blood just started pouring out between his hands.
鲜血刚刚开始从他双手之间涌出。
This is the homeowner?
这是楼主吗？
Police Officer This is the homeowner.
警官 这是房主。
I lose my balance and fall backwards directly onto my partner.
我失去平衡，直接向后摔倒在我的搭档身上。
And I pancake him.
我把他煎成煎饼。
We're both on our backs.
我们俩都在背上。
He's on his back.
他在他的背上。
I'm on his stomach on my back, scuttling around like a beetle trying to get up in this really narrow hallway.
我趴在他的背上，像甲虫一样在这个非常狭窄的走廊里爬来爬去。
It's a mess.
真是一团糟。
The squirrel, while we're floundering around in the hallway, jumps down the stairs-- boink, boink, boink-- lands on me, and takes off down the stairs.
当我们在走廊里挣扎时，松鼠从楼梯上跳下来——叮叮叮，叮叮叮——落在我身上，然后从楼梯上跳下来。
How undignified.
多么没有尊严啊。
Police Officer It was terrible.
警察 太可怕了。
It was terrible.
太可怕了。
[LAUGHS] Police Officer So we're wondering, gee, where is the squirrel?
[笑] 警官 所以我们想知道，天哪，松鼠在哪里？
And right at that second, the woman who lived there, you hear her scream.
就在那一刻，住在那里的女人，你听到她的尖叫声。
So my partner goes, well, we found the squirrel.
所以我的伙伴说，好吧，我们找到了松鼠。
It's wherever she is.
无论她在哪里，都是如此。
Yeah.
是的。
Police Officer So we go running downstairs.
警官 所以我们就跑下楼去。
And the squirrel had come into the living room, where they had been having their romantic evening.
松鼠来到了客厅，他们正在那里度过浪漫的夜晚。
They had a fire going.
他们着火了。
They had pillows arranged around one corner of the couch next to the fire.
他们在火炉旁的沙发一角放了枕头。
And they had champagne flutes out-- nice house, really nice.
他们还拿出了香槟酒杯——漂亮的房子，真的很好。
I mean, it just smelled brand new-- new carpeting, new rugs, new paint.
我的意思是，它闻起来是全新的——新地毯、新地毯、新油漆。
They hadn't been there for that long.
他们已经很久没有去那里了。
So the squirrel, when it bolted down the staircase, took off into the living room and ran underneath a couch for cover.
于是，当松鼠冲下楼梯时，它就跑进客厅，跑到沙发底下寻求庇护。
So we run downstairs.
于是我们跑下楼。
This guy is bleeding all over the place, on his carpets.
这家伙的地毯上到处都是血。
His wife looks and says, what have you done to my husband?
他的妻子看着说，你对我丈夫做了什么？
I start going, oh, it was an accident.
我开始走，哦，这是一个意外。
And I just stop in mid-sentence.
我只说到一半就停了下来。
What's the point?
有什么意义？
We've only been there about two minutes.
我们只到了那里大约两分钟。
[LAUGHS] Police Officer So the squirrel is underneath the couch.
[笑]警官 所以松鼠在沙发下面。
And my partner is going, let's get out of here.
我的搭档要走了，我们离开这里吧。
This is just-- it's not going well.
这只是——进展不顺利。
So I'm not beaten yet.
所以我还没有被打败。
I always have another idea.
我总是有另一个想法。
So the squirrel is under this couch, which is in the middle of the room.
所以松鼠就在房间中央的沙发下面。
So I have this bright idea.
所以我有这个好主意。
Why don't we move the furniture away from one of the corners, and we'll put the couch in the corner, and the squirrel will probably move along with the couch because it's the only cover available to it.
为什么我们不把家具从一个角落移开，然后把沙发放在角落里，松鼠可能会随着沙发一起移动，因为它是唯一可用的覆盖物。
And once we get into the corner, we'll only have two open sides of the couch to worry about.
一旦我们进入角落，我们就只剩下沙发的两个开放的侧面需要担心。
So we did that.
所以我们就这么做了。
That is so tactical.
这太有战术性了。
Police Officer Yes.
警官 是的。
Yeah, I was very proud of myself at that instant, but, you know.
是的，那一刻我为自己感到非常自豪，但是，你知道。
I asked her for a box, and she says, sure, we've got boxes.
我向她要一个盒子，她说，当然，我们有盒子。
We just moved in.
我们刚搬进来。
We have nothing but boxes.
我们除了箱子什么都没有。
She runs out to the garage, and she comes back with a box.
她跑到车库，带着一个盒子回来。
And the box is long enough, and it fits across the entire short side of the couch where the armrest would be.
而且盒子足够长，可以容纳沙发扶手所在的整个短边。
So I start sweeping underneath the couch with my nightstick, trying to move the squirrel toward the box, figuring we'll capture it and just get rid of it, and we'll be out of here, and there'll be no more mayhem.
于是我开始用警棍在沙发下面清扫，试图把松鼠移向盒子，想着我们会抓住它并摆脱它，然后我们就会离开这里，不会再有混乱了。
So it's actually working very well, and the squirrel's moving down along.
所以它实际上运行得很好，松鼠正在向下移动。
You can hear it.
你可以听到它。
It's chittering.
它在叽叽喳喳地叫着。
And I'm trying not to hurt it.
我努力不伤害它。
I'm nervous about the thing.
我对这件事很紧张。
It might bite me.
它可能会咬我。
I don't want to hurt it, really.
我不想伤害它，真的。
It's just an animal.
它只是一只动物。
So I'm moving it along, and everything's going very well.
所以我正在继续推进，一切都很顺利。
And then with about eight inches to go I took one more swipe, and the thing just bolted out from underneath the couch.
然后，还剩大约八英寸的时候，我又挥了一下，那东西就从沙发下面冲了出来。
It was lined with tassels.
它衬有流苏。
I couldn't really see under the couch.
我真的看不到沙发下面。
It bolted out from underneath the couch and ran directly into the fireplace, which is about three feet away.
它从沙发下面冲了出来，直接跑进了大约三英尺远的壁炉里。
The fireplace was directly ahead of it.
壁炉就在它的正前方。
And it ran into the fire--
然后它就跑进了火里——
Oh, my.
哦，我的。
Police Officer --and caught on fire, and ran directly back out and directly back under the couch.
警官——着火了，直接跑了出去，直接跑回沙发底下。
Is it on fire?
着火了吗？
Police Officer It was on fire, yeah, the tail, the bushy fur, the whole bit.
警官 它着火了，是的，尾巴，浓密的皮毛，全部都着火了。
I mean, it wasn't flaming or anything, but it was smoking, and there was a little bit of fire coming off the tail.
我的意思是，它没有着火什么的，但它在冒烟，而且尾巴上有一点火。
So it runs back under the couch.
所以它又跑回沙发下面了。
And the couch catches on fire in seconds, I mean, in seconds.
沙发在几秒钟内就着火了，我的意思是，几秒钟内。
It must have had dust under there or something else, but it caught on fire immediately.
里面肯定有灰尘或其他什么东西，但它立刻就着火了。
And my partner and I just don't even talk.
我和我的搭档甚至不说话。
We just grab the couch, heave it upside down, and now there's plenty of oxygen now for the fire to really get going.
我们只要抓住沙发，把它倒过来，现在就有足够的氧气让火真正燃烧起来。
And it starts up, and we're patting it out.
它启动了，我们正在拍它。
And it's sort of getting away from us.
它正在远离我们。
So we grab the only thing that's really available, and those are these really nice silk pillows.
所以我们抓住了唯一真正可用的东西，那就是这些非常漂亮的丝绸枕头。
And we have one in each hand, both of us, and we're just windmilling away at this fire on the couch.
我们每只手都拿着一个，我们就在沙发上的篝火上随风而行。
And we put it out, but it's smoking terribly.
我们把它灭了，但它冒烟得很厉害。
It was a disaster.
这是一场灾难。
The couch is upside down.
沙发是倒过来的。
The bottom of it is burnt.
它的底部被烧焦了。
The house is filling with smoke from the couch.
房子里充满了沙发上的烟雾。
The squirrel, when it went under the couch, in its death throes, just latched onto the bottom of the couch.
当松鼠钻到沙发底下时，它在垂死挣扎中，只是卡在了沙发的底部。
It's like this smoking piece of gristle underneath the couch, latched on there with its claws.
它就像沙发下面冒着烟的软骨，用爪子卡住了。
And we're pounding, smearing it all over the place.
我们正在敲击，将其涂抹得到处都是。
The smoke alarms are firing away.
烟雾警报器正在鸣响。
The guy's standing with handkerchiefs and paper towels up around his nose, which is still bleeding.
那家伙站着，用手帕和纸巾捂着鼻子，鼻子还在流血。
His pajamas are a mess.
他的睡衣乱七八糟。
They're covered with blood, the front of them.
他们的前面沾满了血。
And we finally get the fire out.
我们终于把火扑灭了。
And we're both completely red, sweating because we're dressed for like zero-degree weather, and it's hot there by the fire.
我们都全身通红，出汗，因为我们穿的衣服适合零度天气，而且火边很热。
We're mortified.
我们很羞愧。
The house is full of smoke.
房子里充满了烟雾。
The wife just looks around and just starts to cry.
妻子只是环顾四周，然后就开始哭泣。
She goes, what have you done?
她走了，你做了什么？
What have you done to my house?
你对我家做了什么？
You could see her just clicking things off on her fingers-- OK, the dead squirrel, ruined pillows, need a new couch.
你可以看到她只是用手指敲击东西——好吧，死松鼠，毁了枕头，需要一张新沙发。
The walls are covered with soot.
墙壁上布满了烟灰。
The fire alarm's going off.
火警警报响了。
My husband's disfigured.
我老公毁容了
And then she really just lost it.
然后她真的就失去了它。
And he was just looking at us and shaking his head like he couldn't believe that these two idiots showed up and did this to his house over nothing, really.
他只是看着我们，摇着头，好像他不敢相信这两个白痴出现了，而且毫无缘由地对他的房子做了这样的事，真的。
And he just goes, you really haven't done anything wrong.
然后他就走了，你真的没有做错任何事。
I can't point to any one thing that you did that I have a reason to get angry about.
我无法指出你所做的任何一件事是我有理由生气的。
You really haven't done anything wrong.
你确实没有做错任何事。
I mean, we did call you, but I just-- I can't thank you for this.
我的意思是，我们确实给你打电话了，但我只是——我不能为此感谢你。
They call for a squirrel.
他们呼唤一只松鼠。
They end up with like $3,000, $4,000 worth of damage and a broken nose.
他们最终遭受了价值 3,000 美元、4,000 美元的损失，鼻子也被打断。
And this is all within about five minutes.
这一切都在大约五分钟内完成。
Could that have happened to you now, 13 years later?
13年后的今天，这种事会发生在你身上吗？
There's always a new mistake to be made.
总是会犯新的错误。
I don't think I would make that particular mistake.
我不认为我会犯那个特别的错误。
I mean, you make plenty of mistakes.
我的意思是，你犯了很多错误。
You make plenty of mistakes.
你犯了很多错误。
That's just part of that job.
这只是该工作的一部分。
You just try not to make the same one twice.
你只是尽量不要做两次同样的事情。
But there's such variety that you're going to make hundreds.
但品种如此之多，你会赚到数百个。
You're going to make thousands of mistakes.
你将会犯成千上万的错误。
You're going to make thousands of mistakes until you really get a handle on what you're doing.
在你真正掌握自己正在做的事情之前，你会犯成千上万的错误。
And with police work, they afford you plenty of space to make mistakes.
在警察工作中，他们为你提供了足够的犯错空间。
But there's things that just either they aren't your responsibility-- if you get involved in things that aren't your responsibility, or that you're really not equipped to handle, or that you don't have a specific plan, a plan that's thought through to a conclusion, you probably should re-evaluate what you're doing.
但有些事情要么不是你的责任——如果你卷入了那些不属于你的责任的事情，或者你真的没有能力处理，或者你没有一个具体的计划，一个经过深思熟虑得出结论的计划，你可能应该重新评估你正在做的事情。
Now that you mention that, yeah, that's right.
既然你提到了，是的，那就对了。
You walk into the house thinking, OK, we'll get the squirrel.
你走进房子，心想，好吧，我们去抓松鼠。
Like, where are you going to get the squirrel?
比如，你要去哪里抓松鼠？
What was the best case scenario?
最好的情况是什么？
That's a great question.
这是一个很好的问题。
I guess I was thinking that I would go up there in the attic and find this cowering squirrel, and somehow lure it into some kind of a trap, and then walk out with it and be like a hero.
我想我当时想我应该去阁楼找到这只畏缩的松鼠，然后以某种方式将它引诱到某种陷阱中，然后带着它走出去，像个英雄一样。
But as it turned out, the squirrel-- it was a Pyrrhic victory for the squirrel, but the squirrel definitely won.
但事实证明，松鼠——这对松鼠来说是一场皮洛士式的胜利，但松鼠绝对赢了。
The squirrel really kicked our ass.
松鼠真的踢了我们的屁股。
[LAUGHS] That is not what you want to be saying at the end of the day.
[笑]这不是你在一天结束时想说的话。
No, no. I mean, it took me a long time to even tell people about it.
不，不。我的意思是，我花了很长时间才告诉人们这件事。
I was so new.
我太新了。
I didn't want anyone to know what a bonehead I was when I first came onto the job.
我不想让任何人知道我刚开始工作时是个多么愚蠢的人。
Our interviewee, who asked not to be named on the radio, had been on the force for 18 years when he spoke with me.
我们的受访者在广播中要求不透露姓名，当他与我交谈时，他已经在警队工作了 18 年。
[MUSIC - "FOX SQUIRREL" BY MUDDY WATERS]
[音乐 - MUDDY Waters 的“狐狸松鼠”]
(SINGING) My baby, she got ways like a fox squirrel swinging up in a tree.
（唱歌）我的宝贝，她的动作就像一只狐狸松鼠在树上荡来荡去。
I know my woman, she got ways like a fox squirrel swinging up in a tree.
我了解我的女人，她的行为方式就像一只狐狸松鼠在树上荡来荡去。
Well, little darling, [INAUDIBLE].
好吧，小亲爱的，[听不清]。
She kept hopping all over me.
她一直在我身上跳来跳去。
Coming up, what it's like to be invited to a big charity event that you then ruin.
接下来，受邀参加一场大型慈善活动，然后被你毁掉是什么感觉？
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, fiasco.
今天的演出，惨败。
This is our own inquiry into the nature of what makes a fiasco.
这是我们自己对惨败本质的探究。
When you have left the world of mishaps, stumble human error, and you enter into the much more rarefied realm of fiasco, we have arrived at Act Three of our program-- Act Three, "Tragedy Minus Comedy Equals Time," specifically a long, long time between laughs.
当你离开了充满不幸的世界，绊倒了人为错误，进入了更加稀有的惨败领域时，我们就到了节目的第三幕——第三幕，“悲剧减去喜剧等于时间”，特别是在笑声之间有很长很长的时间。
So Mike Birbiglia is a comedian.
所以迈克·比尔比利亚是一位喜剧演员。
He's been on our show lots of times.
他多次出现在我们的节目中。
And years ago, years ago, he told this story about this one gig that he did relatively early in his career.
很多年前，很多年前，他讲述了他在职业生涯相对早期所做的一场演出的故事。
He says it was the worst show he's ever done in his life.
他说这是他一生中做过的最糟糕的演出。
It happened this year.
事情发生在今年。
I was asked to perform at a charity golf tournament in New Jersey.
我被邀请在新泽西州的一场慈善高尔夫锦标赛上表演。
So I woke up for this charity golf event.
所以我醒来参加这个慈善高尔夫活动。
And I realized recently that I'm not a good adult yet.
我最近意识到我还不是一个好的成年人。
I think if you're a good adult, you plan your outfit according to what will occur when you leave the house.
我认为如果你是一个好的成年人，你会根据离开家时会发生的事情来计划你的着装。
But I don't have that part of my brain.
但我的大脑没有那部分。
I'm just like, one outfit forever!
我只是想，永远一套衣服！
So when I played golf, I brought my brother, Joe.
所以当我打高尔夫球时，我带上了我的兄弟乔。
And Joe's kind of like a bad entourage member.
乔有点像一个坏随从。
He's never like, you the man, Mike.
他从来都不像，你这个人，迈克。
He's always like, I don't know what Dad would think about this, and do you think they have any more shrimp-- that kind of thing.
他总是说，我不知道爸爸对此会怎么想，你认为他们还有虾吗？诸如此类的事情。
But we showed up to play golf, and they paired us up with these two other people.
但我们来打高尔夫球，他们把我们和另外两个人配对。
It was a celebrity tournament, and people were like, who do you think our celebrity's going to be?
这是一场名人锦标赛，人们会问，你认为我们的名人会是谁？
And Joe and I were like, yeah, who do you think our celebrity is going to be?
乔和我说，是的，你认为我们的名人会是谁？
And then I'm like, oh, no. I think it might be me.
然后我就想，哦，不。我想这可能是我。
And then I'm apologizing to these people.
然后我向这些人道歉。
I'm like, I'm really sorry I'm your celebrity.
我想，我真的很抱歉我是你的名人。
If you think this is disappointing for you, you can't imagine how I feel.
如果你认为这让你感到失望，你就无法想象我的感受。
So I'm apologizing the whole day.
所以我一整天都在道歉。
And then at the end of the day, sure enough, my pants are all wrinkled, and I have to perform at this semi-formal banquet.
然后到了最后，果然我的裤子都皱了，我还要在这个半正式的宴会上表演。
And I'm like, what about one outfit forever?
我想，如果永远穿一件衣服怎么样？
I thought that was a good plan.
我认为这是一个好计划。
And so here's what I do.
这就是我所做的。
As damage control, I go to the locker room to iron my own pants.
为了控制损失，我去更衣室熨烫自己的裤子。
And yeah, it's a pretty good plan.
是的，这是一个非常好的计划。
And I find an iron, but I couldn't find a board.
我找到了熨斗，但找不到熨斗。
So I take off my pants.
所以我脱掉裤子。
I'm just ironing them on a bench in the locker room in my underwear, which is a dead giveaway that these are my only pants.
我只是穿着内衣在更衣室的长凳上熨烫它们，这完全暴露了这是我唯一的裤子。
So I'm ironing my pants.
所以我正在熨裤子。
And I put them on.
我把它们穿上了。
And I go up to the event.
我去参加活动。
And this is where the trouble really begins.
这才是麻烦真正开始的地方。
It's important for me, before I tell you this part of the story, to remind you that you're on my side.
在我告诉你这部分故事之前，提醒你你是站在我这边的，这对我来说很重要。
I say to the woman in charge-- I go, what's the format of the show?
我对负责人说——我想，演出的形式是什么？
And she goes, well, there's two speakers, and then you, and then a raffle.
她说，好吧，有两个发言者，然后是你，然后是抽奖活动。
And I was like, well, that's exciting because I've never opened for a raffle.
我当时想，嗯，这太令人兴奋了，因为我从来没有开过抽奖活动。
I'm trying to stay optimistic.
我正在努力保持乐观。
And I'm sitting in the back of the room with my brother, Joe.
我和我的兄弟乔坐在房间的后面。
And the first speaker comes on the stage, and he's an 11-year-old boy who survived leukemia.
第一个演讲者上台了，他是一位从白血病中幸存下来的 11 岁男孩。
He focuses primarily on the leukemia, and everyone is crying.
他主要关注白血病，每个人都在哭泣。
Literally everyone is crying.
说实话，每个人都在哭。
I'm even crying in the back of the room for two reasons-- one, the kid, and two, for me because I have to perform comedy.
我什至在房间后面哭泣，原因有两个——一是孩子，二是为了我，因为我必须表演喜剧。
And it gets worse because Joe leans over, and he goes, this ain't looking so good, Mike.
事情变得更糟，因为乔靠过来，他说，这看起来不太好，迈克。
The second speaker was Hall of Fame quarterback Phil Simms.
第二位发言者是名人堂四分卫菲尔·西姆斯。
And yeah.
是的。
Whoo!
呼！
Mike Birbiglia He's got one fan here.
迈克·比尔比格利亚（Mike Birbiglia） 他在这里有一位粉丝。
[LAUGHTER] But he's a broadcaster.
[笑声]但他是一名广播员。
And he gives an amazing, inspiring speech.
他发表了令人惊叹、鼓舞人心的演讲。
And he even sprinkles in a few jokes about golf.
他甚至还讲了一些关于高尔夫的笑话。
They were similar to jokes I had thought of about golf that day.
它们和我那天想到的关于高尔夫的笑话很相似。
It was like watching the last drops of my joke canteen drip out onto a desert of cancer.
这就像看着我的笑话水壶里的最后一滴滴到癌症的沙漠上。
He gets a standing ovation, which he should have.
他得到了全场起立鼓掌，这是他应该得到的。
Clearly the show is over.
显然演出已经结束了。
Surely there can't be anyone more famous than Hall of Fame quarterback Phil Simms.
当然，没有人比名人堂四分卫菲尔·西姆斯更出名了。
But wait, there was.
但是等等，有。
It was Mike Birbiglia, who had no business being at this event.
是迈克·比尔比利亚（Mike Birbiglia），他无权参加这次活动。
I know there are some entertainers who might have risen to the challenge, and I would love to be one of those entertainers, but I am not.
我知道有些艺人可能已经接受了挑战，我很想成为这些艺人中的一员，但我不是。
As a matter of fact, I have a habit in my life of making awkward situations even more awkward.
事实上，我生活中有个习惯，就是让尴尬的局面变得更加尴尬。
I've said this before, but a few years ago I was moving a new bed into my apartment.
我以前说过，但几年前我把一张新床搬进我的公寓。
And this woman who lived in the building opened the front door for me with her key.
住在这栋楼里的这位女士用钥匙为我打开了前门。
And she goes, I'm not worried because a rapist wouldn't have a bed like that.
她说，我不担心，因为强奸犯不会有这样的床。
That's how she started the conversation.
她就是这样开始谈话的。
Now, what I should have said was nothing.
现在，我该说的话已经没什么了。
What I did say was, you'd be surprised.
我所说的是，你会感到惊讶。
There's nothing you can say after that.
在那之后你就没什么可说的了。
You're just like, see you around the building, that kind of thing.
你就像，在大楼周围见，之类的事情。
I've thought about this a lot, and I think there's something wrong with my brain, where I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas.
我对这个问题思考了很多，我认为我的大脑出了问题，我的甲板上没有一个可以提供想法的圈子。
It's just batter up.
这只是面糊而已。
And a lot of the ideas are bad.
而且很多想法都是不好的。
And they're at the plate going, I don't know about this one, Mike.
他们正在忙着，我不知道这个，迈克。
And I just turn into this drunk Little League dad.
我就变成了这个喝醉了的少年棒球联盟爸爸。
I'm like, you go take some cuts, son.
我说，儿子，你去剪点吧。
As a comedian, when people laugh, it's very exciting.
作为一个喜剧演员，当人们笑起来的时候，是非常令人兴奋的。
It's a very neat thing.
这是一件非常巧妙的事情。
And when they don't, it feels like you're performing jazz because they're kind of bobbing their head and looking to the side.
当他们不这样做时，感觉就像你在表演爵士乐，因为他们有点摇头并看向一边。
And sometimes that's OK.
有时这没关系。
I'm like, I like jazz.
我想，我喜欢爵士乐。
But then I get worried because I'm like, sometimes jazz sucks.
但后来我开始担心，因为我觉得，有时爵士乐很糟糕。
What if I'm the Kenny G of comedy?
如果我是喜剧界的肯尼·G（Kenny G）怎么办？
What if I think I sound like this, like-- [JAZZ SOUNDS]
如果我觉得我听起来像这样，就像——[爵士乐]怎么办？
--and, in fact, I sound like this-- (SINGING) Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
——事实上，我听起来是这样的——（唱歌）呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，呐。
So I'm onstage at the charity golf tournament, and I'm just Kenny G'ing it up, for 10 minutes, just-- [SINGING OFF KEY]
所以我在慈善高尔夫锦标赛的舞台上，我只是肯尼 G'ing 10 分钟，只是 - [唱走调]
--just blowing that horn.
——只是吹响喇叭。
And I don't want to fail.
我不想失败。
I mean, that's a really important point in this story is that these are good people.
我的意思是，这个故事中非常重要的一点是这些人都是好人。
And I want to succeed for them, but I just can't.
我想为他们取得成功，但我就是做不到。
And so I think to myself, why don't I cater my material to this specific event?
所以我对自己说，为什么我不把我的材料迎合这个特定的事件呢？
And everyone has been talking about cancer.
每个人都在谈论癌症。
I had that thought on stage for about one second and then batter up.
我在舞台上有这样的想法大约一秒钟，然后就振作起来。
I said to the audience-- true story, I said I went to the doctor, and they told me there was something in my bladder.
我对观众说——真实的故事，我说我去看了医生，他们告诉我膀胱里有东西。
And whenever they tell you that, it's never anything good-- like, we found something in your bladder, and it's season tickets to the Yankees!
每当他们告诉你这些时，这绝对不是什么好事——比如，我们在你的膀胱里发现了一些东西，那是洋基队的季票！
That was the response I was hoping for.
这就是我所希望的回应。
At that point, I just threw in the towel.
那时我就认输了。
I mean, I was just devastated.
我的意思是，我简直崩溃了。
I thanked the audience and apologized simultaneously, which I've never done.
我一边感谢观众，一边道歉，这是我从来没有做过的。
I was like, thank you.
我当时想，谢谢。
Sorry for ruining your event.
很抱歉破坏了您的活动。
And I just kind of walked off.
我就走开了。
And I was so upset.
我很沮丧。
And I walked over to Joe.
我走到乔身边。
And I go, Joe, we are leaving now.
我走了，乔，我们现在要走了。
And that's when Joe said, and I quote, "Mike, I can't.
就在那时，乔说道，我引用一下：“迈克，我不能。
They're just about to start the raffle."
他们马上就要开始抽奖了。”
"And because everybody left, my odds are amazing."
“因为每个人都离开了，所以我的胜算非常惊人。”
[LAUGHTER] And that is the worst show I have ever done in my entire life.
[笑声] 那是我一生中做过的最糟糕的表演。
Yeah.
是的。
Mike Birbiglia.
迈克·比尔比利亚。
His most recent Netflix special is called The New One.
他最近在 Netflix 上推出的特别节目名为“The New One”。
And he's organized these funny videos to raise money for people who work at comedy clubs, who, of course, are now out of work.
他组织了这些有趣的视频，为喜剧俱乐部的工作人员筹集资金，当然，这些人现在失业了。
John Mulaney, Maria Bamford, Roy Wood Jr., and many other very funny people do these with him.
约翰·穆拉尼 (John Mulaney)、玛丽亚·班福德 (Maria Bamford)、小罗伊·伍德 (Roy Wood Jr.) 和许多其他非常有趣的人都和他一起做这些。
You can find them at tipyourwaitstaff.com.
您可以在tipyourwaitstaff.com 上找到它们。
[MUSIC - "I STARTED A JOKE" BY BEE GEES]
[音乐 - BEE GEES 的“我开了个玩笑”]
(SINGING) I started a joke, which started the whole world crying.
（唱歌）我开了一个玩笑，让全世界都哭了。
But I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh, no.
但我没有看到笑话是在我身上，哦，不。
Act Four, "Fiascos As A Force for Good." George Clooney, Barbra Streisand, Jennifer Aniston, Vidal Sassoon, Jodie Foster, Jason Momoa, Brad Pitt, Keanu Reeves, Sharon Stone, and John Travolta, also George Burns, Bob Hope, Gene Kelly, Gena Rowlands, also Quentin Tarantino, John Waters, Nora Ephron-- Margy Rochlin has interviewed all these people.
第四幕，“惨败是正义的力量”。乔治·克鲁尼、芭芭拉·史翠珊、詹妮弗·安妮斯顿、维达尔·沙逊、朱迪·福斯特、杰森·莫玛、布拉德·皮特、基努·里维斯、莎朗·斯通和约翰·特拉沃尔塔，还有乔治·伯恩斯、鲍勃·霍普、吉恩·凯利、吉娜·罗兰兹、昆汀·塔伦蒂诺、约翰·沃特斯、诺拉·艾弗隆——玛吉·罗克林采访过所有这些人。
She's written big feature stories for all sorts of big magazines and newspapers.
她为各种大型杂志和报纸撰写了大型专题报道。
But the very, very first big feature assignment that she was actually sent out on was by a publication in 1982, The Los Angeles Reader.
但实际上，她接到的第一个大型专题任务是 1982 年的一份出版物《洛杉矶读者》。
They sent out a very nervous, very youthful Margy Rochlin to interview Moon Unit Zappa.
他们派出了一个非常紧张、非常年轻的玛吉·罗克林去采访月球部队扎帕。
Remember her?
还记得她吗？
Daughter of Frank Zappa.
弗兰克·扎帕的女儿。
In this little bit that she does on the song, she's using a lot of this language that-- sort of Valspeak that no one had ever heard before.
在她在歌曲中所做的这一点中，她使用了很多这种语言——一种以前没有人听过的瓦尔语。
And it was considered really exotic.
它被认为非常具有异国情调。
And so I was from the valley, so I was sent to go talk to her.
我来自山谷，所以我被派去和她说话。
She is one of your people.
她是你们的人之一。
Speak to her in your secret, private argot.
用你的秘密、私人用语与她交谈。
Exactly.
确切地。
And, of course, what is so touching to me is that I totally bought that.
当然，最让我感动的是我完全买了它。
You're right.
你说得对。
I'm the right person for the job.
我是这份工作的合适人选。
[LAUGHTER] I'm going to go speak to her in the valley language, and we will bond.
[笑声]我要去用山谷语言和她说话，我们就会建立联系。
[MUSIC - "VALLEY GIRL" BY FRANK AND MOON UNIT ZAPPA]
[音乐 - FRANK AND MOON UNIT ZAPPA 的“VALLEY GIRL”]
Encino is, like, so bitchin'.
恩西诺真是太恶毒了。
Valley girl.
山谷姑娘。
So you get there, and you're a bit nervous.
所以你到了那里，你有点紧张。
And the pressure is on, which is, of course, the setting for a possible triumph or a possible fiasco.
压力也随之而来，当然，这可能会带来胜利，也可能会带来惨败。
Well, what I noticed was that it was a tense situation.
嗯，我注意到这是一个紧张的情况。
I just didn't feel like it was going very well, and the mother was sort of hovering.
我只是觉得事情进展得不太顺利，母亲有点徘徊不定。
Well, we have a recording of it, because you had a tape recorder rolling during this.
嗯，我们有录音，因为在这期间你有录音机在转动。
Yes.
是的。
Margy Rochlin What are some other hangouts in The Valley besides the Galleria?
Margy Rochlin 除了 Galleria 之外，The Valley 还有哪些其他去处？
Bowling alleys with big arcades are very popular.
带有大型拱廊的保龄球馆非常受欢迎。
Oh, I'm trying-- at this point, I'm sort of at that rock bottom level that everyone can get at in an interview, where you're just saying, what's your favorite color?
哦，我正在尝试 - 在这一点上，我有点处于每个人都可以在采访中达到的最低水平，你只是说，你最喜欢的颜色是什么？
And she's trying to help me along.
她正在努力帮助我。
Kirkwood's is gone.
柯克伍德的已经不见了。
It's now the sports center.
现在是体育中心。
Oh, it's the same thing?
哦，是一样的吗？
Margy Rochlin So we're seated in the den.
玛吉·罗克林：我们坐在书房里。
And the mother made me coffee, but I was too nervous to drink it.
妈妈给我泡了咖啡，但我太紧张了，没喝。
But I sort of kept staring at it, and she kept staring at it.
但我一直盯着它看，她也一直盯着它。
And I felt like it was pretty important that at some point I better drain that coffee cup.
我觉得在某个时候我最好把咖啡杯里的咖啡沥干，这一点非常重要。
And so what happened was Moon told me a joke, and I didn't see the joke coming.
所以发生的事情是穆恩给我讲了一个笑话，而我没有看到这个笑话。
And right before she told me the joke, I had taken a big swig of the coffee, which was now cold.
就在她给我讲笑话之前，我喝了一大口咖啡，咖啡已经冷了。
And when she told me the joke, I burst out laughing, and I started to choke.
当她告诉我这个笑话时，我大笑起来，然后开始窒息。
And so I pressed my lips together, so I didn't spit it out.
于是我抿紧了嘴唇，没有吐出来。
I didn't want to do a spit take.
我不想吐口水。
And the coffee came shooting out my nose.
咖啡从我的鼻子里喷了出来。
Shooting out your nose?
射出你的鼻子？
Margy Rochlin Shooting right out my nose.
玛吉·罗克林 从我鼻子里开枪。
I was really embarrassed, but I couldn't breathe.
我真的很尴尬，但我无法呼吸。
At the same time, I was choking.
与此同时，我也窒息了。
And I jumped up, and I sort of started running around the room, knocking things over.
我跳了起来，开始在房间里跑来跑去，把东西打翻了。
And I think that they didn't know what was going on, but the mother began chasing me.
我认为他们不知道发生了什么事，但母亲开始追我。
She began chasing you?
她开始追你了？
Margy Rochlin She began chasing me because I was sort of running from corner to corner, trying to catch my breath.
玛吉·罗克林 她开始追我，因为我正从一个角落跑到另一个角落，试图喘口气。
And she began sort of chasing me.
她开始追我。
And at a certain point, she got behind me, and she gave me the Heimlich maneuver.
在某个时刻，她走到我身后，对我进行了海姆立克急救法。
Wait.
等待。
Put your arms up.
举起你的手臂。
OK?
好的？
Moon Unit Zappa Let's do the Heimlich maneuver.
Moon Unit Zappa 让我们进行海姆立克急救法。
Oh, god.
哦，上帝。
Well, I've been in the news business-- I've been a reporter for 20 years, and nobody's ever given me the Heimlich maneuver while I've been on the story.
嗯，我一直从事新闻行业——我当了 20 年记者，在我报道新闻的时候，从来没有人给过我海姆立克急救法。
[LAUGHTER] Margy Rochlin Well, I always say that it's a benchmark.
[笑声] Margy Rochlin 嗯，我总是说这是一个基准。
It's a very low benchmark.
这是一个非常低的基准。
And I can do any interview.
我可以接受任何采访。
I can get thrown off a set.
我可能会被赶出一组。
I can be cursed out by the subject, but I can leave and get in the car, and I can drive home and think, I didn't blow coffee out my nose.
我可能会被这个话题咒骂，但我可以离开并上车，我可以开车回家并想，我没有把咖啡从鼻子里吹出来。
It was sort of like we'd all been in an earthquake together.
这有点像我们一起经历了一场地震。
And all of the nervousness left the room, and suddenly we were three gals just chatting.
所有的紧张情绪都消失在房间里，突然间我们变成了三个正在聊天的女孩。
And I remember that I sort of hugged them both when I left.
我记得我离开时拥抱了他们俩。
Wow.
哇。
Margy Rochlin They were now my friends.
玛吉·罗克林 他们现在是我的朋友了。
It's interesting, because one of our criteria for a fiasco is that all social order, the normal social structure, breaks down.
这很有趣，因为我们判断惨败的标准之一是所有社会秩序、正常的社会结构都崩溃了。
And literally that's what happens here.
从字面上看，这就是这里发生的事情。
The normal interview stops, and the social structure of the moment completely changes.
正常的采访停止了，当下的社会结构彻底改变了。
The mom gives you the Heimlich maneuver, and then suddenly it stops feeling like an interview.
妈妈给你做了海姆立克急救法，然后突然间就感觉不像是在接受采访了。
Yeah.
是的。
And I have to say that it was a very embarrassing experience, and it completely made me feel close to them.
而我不得不说，这是一次非常尴尬的经历，也彻底让我对他们产生了亲近感。
It was so interesting.
太有趣了。
When Moon's father died a while ago, I bumped into her somewhere, and we both burst into tears.
不久前Moon的父亲去世了，我在某个地方碰到了她，我们都哭了。
I mean, I really felt like a little sister of mine had a loss.
我的意思是，我真的觉得我的一个小妹妹很失落。
And the starting point was--
而出发点是——
Yeah.
是的。
To me, the thing about it that's useful is that it shows the useful purpose of a fiasco.
对我来说，它的有用之处在于它显示了一场惨败的有用目的。
That is, when social order breaks down, that can be a force not just for chaos, and for entropy, and for evil, but, in fact, that can be a force for good.
也就是说，当社会秩序崩溃时，它不仅可以成为混乱、熵和邪恶的力量，而且实际上也可以成为善良的力量。
It can bring people together.
它可以将人们聚集在一起。
Right.
正确的。
It was actually this huge success to me.
这对我来说实际上是巨大的成功。
I'd never been sent out under these kind of circumstances before.
我从来没有在这种情况下被送出去过。
And I remember we beat the local paper.
我记得我们击败了当地报纸。
The Herald Examiner followed us a week later.
一周后，《先驱观察报》对我们进行了追踪。
So we had the first story, and it was sort of considered the definitive one because we had this glossary of terms that I had made her put together.
所以我们有了第一个故事，它被认为是决定性的故事，因为我们有我让她整理的术语表。
Of valley speak terms?
山谷的说话术语？
Margy Rochlin Of valley speak terms.
玛吉·罗克林 (Margy Rochlin) 山谷里的人说话。
And then it was syndicated.
然后它就被联合起来了。
And most of the quotable stuff that you ended up using in your story happened after the--
你在故事中最终使用的大部分可引用的内容都发生在——
Happened-- yeah.
发生了——是的。
Ira Glass Happened after squirting the coffee through your nose.
Ira Glass 发生在你把咖啡从鼻子里喷出来之后。
Exactly, exactly.
完全正确。
It's a technique I don't suggest anyone trying.
我不建议任何人尝试这种技术。
(SINGING) It's, like, so bitchin' because, like, everybody's, like, super, super nice.
（唱歌）这真是太让人讨厌了，因为每个人都超级超级好。
It's like, so bitchin'.
就好像，太讨厌了。
For years afterwards, Moon would send me postcards.
多年后，穆恩都会给我寄明信片。
And on the postcard somewhere would be a picture of a nose, and there would be liquid coming out of it, sort of like my logo.
明信片上的某个地方会有一张鼻子的图片，并且会有液体从里面流出来，有点像我的标志。
Ready, ready to the max.
准备好了，准备好了。
I'm sure.
我敢肯定。
It's, like, really nauseating.
真的很恶心。
Like, barf out.
就像，呕吐出来。
Gag me with a spoon.
用勺子堵住我的嘴。
Gross.
总的。
I am sure.
我相信。
Totally.
完全。
Margy Rochlin.
玛吉·罗克林。
She covers television, podcasts, food, and film in Los Angeles.
她在洛杉矶报道电视、播客、美食和电影。
(SINGING) Don't look at her way.
（唱）别看她的路。
It's how she gets around.
这就是她的出行方式。
You are damaged and shaken, but you're still in control as far as they know.
你受到了伤害和动摇，但据他们所知，你仍然处于控制之中。
Today's program was produced by Nancy Updike and myself, with Paul Tough, Alix Spiegel, and Julie Snyder.
今天的节目由南希·厄普代克和我、保罗·托夫、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和朱莉·斯奈德共同制作。
Contributing editors for today's program-- Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
今天节目的特约编辑是 Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowell。
Production help for this rerun from Noor Gill, Stowe Nelson, and Matt Tierney.
诺尔·吉尔、斯托·尼尔森和马特·蒂尔尼为这部重播剧提供了制作帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He used to walk into the studio at the end of each and every episode to grimly assess the damage.
他常常在每一集结束时走进工作室，严肃地评估损失。
Dead squirrel, ruined pillows, need a new couch.
死松鼠，毁坏的枕头，需要一张新沙发。
The walls are covered with soot.
墙壁上布满了烟灰。
The fire alarms are going off.
火警警报响起。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
(SINGING) You are damaged and shaken, but you're still in control as far as they know.
（唱歌）你受到了伤害和动摇，但据他们所知，你仍然处于控制之中。
What did they, what'd they say, do you know what I mean?
他们说什么，说什么，你知道我的意思吗？
Do ya?
是吗？
Do ya?
是吗？
Do ya?
是吗？
Oh, great honey.
哦，伟大的亲爱的。
Get you into the show.
带你进入节目。
Oh, don't worry, honey.
噢，别担心，亲爱的。
Always knows the showman.
总是了解表演者。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。