697: Alone Together - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #697 | March 20, 2020 697: Alone Together Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 697 集 | 2020 年 3 月 20 日 697：孤独在一起 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Hey there, everybody.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 大家好。
Ira here.
艾拉在这里。
So if you heard our show last week, you know that I had just learned hours before we broadcast that episode that I needed to go into quarantine because a guy who I had shaken hands with five days before that developed symptoms and then tested positive for coronavirus.
因此，如果您上周听过我们的节目，您就会知道，在播出该集之前几个小时，我刚刚得知我需要进行隔离，因为五天前与我握手的一个人出现了症状，然后检测出冠状病毒呈阳性。
It is now 12 days since I shook hands with that guy, and I've not developed symptoms.
距离我和那个人握手已经12天了，我还没有出现症状。
CDC guidelines say that it can happen for up to 14 days, so I am nearly in the clear.
CDC 指南称这种情况可能会持续长达 14 天，所以我几乎没有什么问题。
A reminder to everybody that people who don't have symptoms can still be carrying the virus and give it to others.
提醒大家，没有症状的人仍然可能携带病毒并将其传染给他人。
Anyway, the world has changed so much, right?
无论如何，世界已经改变了很多，不是吗？
One of the striking things about this coronavirus is how differently it affects different people.
这种冠状病毒的惊人之处之一是它对不同人的影响有多么不同。
So some people who get it have no symptoms, or they get mild symptoms, or they experience something like a bad flu.
因此，有些感染者没有任何症状，或者出现轻微症状，或者经历类似严重流感的症状。
That's particularly young and healthy people, though young, healthy adults are not immune.
尤其是年轻和健康的人，尽管年轻、健康的成年人也不能幸免。
The CDC put out a report this week-- maybe you saw this-- saying 20% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients are between 20 and 44 years old.
CDC 本周发布了一份报告（也许您已经看到了），称 20% 的住院 COVID-19 患者年龄在 20 岁至 44 岁之间。
But it's older people, as we all know, who are living in a completely different world these days.
但众所周知，如今老年人生活在一个完全不同的世界中。
If they leave their homes, they're walking around in a world that's suddenly filled with this invisible thing that can kill them with no idea of who around them might have it or what doorknob it might be on.
如果他们离开家，他们就会走在一个突然充满了这种看不见的东西的世界里，这种东西可以杀死他们，而不知道他们周围的谁可能拥有它，也不知道它可能在哪个门把手上。
One of our producers, David Kestenbaum, talked to this woman, Tova Rothman, who's 71.
我们的制片人之一 David Kestenbaum 与这位 71 岁的女士 Tova Rothman 进行了交谈。
Her husband's 74 and has a compromised immune system, so he is in special danger if he comes into contact with the virus.
她的丈夫今年 74 岁，免疫系统受损，因此如果接触该病毒，他将面临特别危险。
Here's David.
这是大卫。
I talked to Tova last weekend, which feels like so long ago.
上周末我和 Tova 聊过，感觉像是很久以前的事了。
I don't think I would do this now, but we met in person to talk.
我想我现在不会这样做，但我们亲自会面交谈。
She lives in my town, in this apartment across from the pizza place, the little movie theater, the Kings supermarket.
她住在我镇上的这套公寓里，对面就是披萨店、小电影院、国王超市。
Her daughter told me she was eager to talk to someone.
她的女儿告诉我她很想和别人说话。
For her safety, I checked my temperature before I left the house, washed my hands twice, and wiped down my microphone, though even that is no guarantee.
为了她的安全，我在出门前检查了体温，洗手两次，并擦拭了麦克风，尽管这也不能保证。
Again, I wouldn't do this now.
再说一次，我现在不会这样做。
She came down from her apartment carrying her cell phone and a canister of Clorox wipes.
她从公寓下来，手里拿着手机和一罐高乐氏湿巾。
Yeah.
是的。
We did the interview on a park bench.
我们在公园的长椅上进行了采访。
If she's a little off-mic sometimes, it's because I'm sitting as far away from her as possible, holding my arms straight out with the microphone.
如果她有时有点偏离麦克风，那是因为我坐得离她尽可能远，伸直手臂拿着麦克风。
Every move she makes right now requires some impossible calculation.
她现在的一举一动，都需要经过一些不可能的计算。
She has to avoid anything that might get her or her husband sick.
她必须避免任何可能让她或她丈夫生病的事情。
Overwhelmed, but I feel like that I can master this.
不知所措，但我觉得我可以掌握这一点。
I went to Kings across the street.
我去了街对面的国王。
I just try to stay away from people.
我只是尽量远离人们。
They have them restocking and restocking.
他们让他们重新进货并重新进货。
And they actually have better fruit and fresher fruit now.
他们现在实际上有更好的水果和更新鲜的水果。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
But you're not supposed to get between six feet of people.
但你不应该进入六英尺的人之间。
And millennials are all marching around buying things, and you're, whoa, don't come near me.
千禧一代都在到处买东西，而你，哇，别靠近我。
I must look like I'm crazy, but that's the way it goes.
我看起来一定是疯了，但事情就是这样。
This town is a very young town, and so there's a lot of young people and a lot of kids skateboarding.
这个小镇是一个非常年轻的小镇，所以有很多年轻人和很多孩子在玩滑板。
And they're in your face.
他们就在你的脸上。
And you're like, stay away.
而你就像，远离。
But they don't understand that.
但他们不明白这一点。
No. Wearing my plastic gloves and carrying my canister of Clorox, I think they understand where I'm coming from.
不。戴着塑料手套，拿着高乐氏罐，我想他们明白我来自哪里。
[LAUGHS] It sounds so funny.
[笑]听起来很有趣。
Her husband, because of his immune system, is stuck in the apartment.
她的丈夫由于免疫系统问题，被困在公寓里。
My husband is not well.
我丈夫身体不太好。
He can't go out, and he's not happy about it.
他不能出去，他对此不高兴。
There's TV, of course, but annoyingly, no sports to watch because everything's been canceled.
当然有电视，但令人烦恼的是，没有体育节目可看，因为一切都被取消了。
The other night, he had Gunsmoke on, which is really not Tova's thing.
那天晚上，他打开了 Gunsmoke，这确实不是 Tova 的事。
So we're not having a great relationship with this.
所以我们与此没有很好的关系。
I told him that I was checking on him, and he shouldn't get out of his chair.
我告诉他我正在检查他，他不应该离开椅子。
And he very nastily said, OK, I won't get out.
他非常恶毒地说，好吧，我不会出去。
Does he say, I want to go outside, and you say, we can't?
他是否说，我想出去，而你说，我们不能？
Yeah.
是的。
He'll say, I want to do something.
他会说，我想做点什么。
And I say, you can't.
我说，你不能。
I would take him downstairs, and he could go out and get air in his face.
我会带他下楼，他就可以出去呼吸新鲜空气。
But there's so many surfaces between our apartment and the lobby, and it's only one floor.
但我们的公寓和大堂之间有很多表面，而且只有一层。
But there's so much you have to worry about.
但你需要担心的事情太多了。
It is a surreal thing.
这是一件超现实的事情。
You just-- you think, what?
你只是——你想，什么？
Every morning, you wake up and think, I can't believe this.
每天早上，你醒来都会想，我简直不敢相信这一点。
Is it real?
这是真的吗？
So, it's real.
所以，这是真的。
Tova says her grandfather died from the Spanish flu in 1918.
托娃说，她的祖父于 1918 年死于西班牙流感。
He went to the opera.
他去看歌剧了。
They used to get tickets where they could stand and pay a lot less.
他们过去常常在可以站立的地方买票，而且花的钱少得多。
And so he went to the opera, and he was in a crowd.
于是他就去看了歌剧，他就在人群中。
And he got-- he was sick one day and died the next.
他有一天生病了，第二天就死了。
He was 26.
那年他26岁。
I keep thinking about how differently everyone might view this thing, how different our country's response might have been if the virus were as dangerous for younger people.
我一直在想，如果这种病毒对年轻人同样危险，每个人对这件事的看法可能会有多么不同，我们国家的反应可能会有多么不同。
Maybe we would have reacted faster because, oh, it's only the old people.
也许我们反应会更快，因为，哦，只有老人。
[LAUGHS] That's how I feel.
[笑]这就是我的感受。
It wasn't quite as tragic if it's the old people.
如果是老人的话，事情就没有那么悲惨了。
My friends keep calling and saying, who knew we were the old people, which is true.
我的朋友一直打电话说，谁知道我们是老人，这是真的。
Tova stood up to go back to her husband.
托娃站起来回到丈夫身边。
And as she did, this guy walked really close to her to throw a tissue in the trash can, as if it was two weeks ago or something.
当她这样做的时候，这个家伙走得很近，把一张纸巾扔进了垃圾桶，就好像那是两周前的事一样。
Tova was not happy.
托瓦不高兴。
I was almost ready to throw my canister of wipes at him.
我几乎准备好把一罐湿巾扔给他了。
He should stay away.
他应该远离。
Maybe I don't look 71.
也许我看起来不像71岁。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I'm sure that's it.
我确信就是这样。
Tova Rothman Ah, yeah.
托娃·罗斯曼 啊，是的。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
OK.
好的。
Tova Rothman Oh, very nice meeting you too.
Tova Rothman 哦，也很高兴见到你。
I called Tova four days later to see how she was doing.
四天后我打电话给托娃，了解她的情况。
She's still going out for walks-- no supermarkets anymore.
她仍然出去散步——不再去超市了。
That was actually the very last interview that anybody on our staff did with somebody in person, David Kestenbaum's story.
这实际上是我们员工最后一次亲自采访大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆的故事。
We have all been holed up in our own homes, everybody on the staff.
我们所有的工作人员都躲在自己的家里。
We are one of the many businesses that have decided that it's safer for everybody if we're working from home.
我们是众多决定在家工作对每个人来说都更安全的企业之一。
So everybody's doing interviews over the phone.
所以每个人都通过电话进行采访。
We're all preparing stories for next week's show about what's happening in the country and in the world.
我们都在为下周的节目准备有关这个国家和世界上正在发生的事情的故事。
But in the meantime, until then, thinking about what might be nice to hear on the radio in a moment like this one.
但与此同时，在那之前，想想在这样的时刻在广播中听到什么可能是件好事。
I think so much of what is happening now, as we're being told to stay home, and so many of us are either cooped up with our families or reaching out to family members more than usual, and reaching out to the other people we love to see how they're doing, and to worry together about what's going to happen next, we thought, with that in mind, today we would prepare a show of stories that we've made over the years about families and about people trying to find comfort or find answers by turning to their families, including-- we have this one story from 25 years ago of me and my mom back when she was still alive.
我想了很多现在发生的事情，因为我们被告知要待在家里，我们中的许多人要么与家人待在一起，要么比平时更多地与家人联系，并与我们所爱的其他人联系，看看他们在做什么，并共同担心接下来会发生什么，我们认为，考虑到这一点，今天我们将准备一档故事，这些故事是我们多年来制作的，关于家庭，关于人们试图通过向家人求助来寻求安慰或找到答案，包括——我们有一个 25 年前我和我妈妈的故事，当时她还活着。
And I saw her quoted in a national magazine as a sexpert.
我看到一家全国性杂志将她称为性专家。
I had some questions for her, and I called her.
我有一些问题想问她，就给她打了电话。
We get to that in Act Three.
我们在第三幕中谈到这一点。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Hey, Dad.
第一幕：“嘿，爸爸。
Dad!" So school was cut off in so many places, and kids are home.
爸爸！”所以很多地方学校都停课了，孩子们都回家了。
And we have this story of a parent trying to go about his day and his daughter coming to him over and over with some things on her mind.
我们有这样一个故事：一位父母试图度过他的一天，而他的女儿一遍又一遍地来找他，心里想着一些事情。
Stephanie Foo tells what happened.
斯蒂芬妮·福讲述了发生的事情。
My friend Matt's older daughter went through one of those hardcore phases, where she got really into asking her dad a lot of questions.
我朋友马特的大女儿经历了其中一个核心阶段，她开始问她爸爸很多问题。
She was nine.
她九岁。
There's the why phase, and then the why phase can turn into the why not and explain, and that endless string of questions, like, why can't I have my own room?
有“为什么”阶段，然后“为什么”阶段可以变成“为什么不”并进行解释，以及无穷无尽的问题，例如，为什么我不能拥有自己的房间？
How do I get to school?
我怎样去学校？
Why can't we have a yard?
为什么我们不能有一个院子？
Can I have a cookie?
我可以吃一块饼干吗？
They're unrelenting.
他们是不屈不挠的。
So one night, Matt was working from home, and Rosie was bugging him with her questions.
一天晚上，马特在家工作，罗西不断地向他提出问题。
And it was just sort of one after the other after the other.
这只是一个接着一个接着另一个。
And I was like, all right, look, you got to just give me a minute.
我当时想，好吧，听着，你得给我一分钟。
I'm working right now.
我现在正在工作。
Just go off and write them all down.
把它们全部写下来。
Make me a list of the questions that you want me to answer, and I'll answer them for you.
给我列出您希望我回答的问题，我会为您解答。
I thought it was going to be like three or four questions and then a picture of a rabbit or something.
我以为这会是三四个问题，然后是兔子或其他东西的图片。
And I get this list, and I look at it.
我拿到了这份清单，然后看了看。
And these are the essential, unanswerable questions of life.
这些都是生命中基本的、无法回答的问题。
Read a few of these questions for me.
为我阅读其中几个问题。
Start at the very top.
从最顶层开始。
OK.
好的。
So, what is life?
那么，什么是生命？
Why?
为什么？
Stephanie Foo That's the first question?
Stephanie Foo 这是第一个问题？
That's the first question.
这是第一个问题。
It's the first thing she wants to know.
这是她想知道的第一件事。
Where do we go when we die-- heaven?
我们死后会去哪里——天堂？
Explain.
解释。
Another planet?
另一个星球？
Is heaven another planet?
天堂是另一个星球吗？
Why is there heaven or hell?
为什么会有天堂或地狱？
Time-- why?
时间——为什么？
Explain.
解释。
Do we make worlds?
我们创造世界吗？
Do we become like God-- why?
我们会变得像上帝吗——为什么？
Why do you do what you do?
你为什么要做你所做的事？
How do you know what's true?
你怎么知道什么是真的？
Who do you miss-- why?
你想念谁——为什么？
Explain.
解释。
Do you miss anyone more than them?
你还有比他们更想念的人吗？
And does that change, and how?
这种情况会改变吗？如何改变？
And if that changes, was it worth missing them in the first place?
如果情况发生变化，那么一开始就值得错过他们吗？
And my favorite is-- pretty much just my jaw dropped-- why any of this?
我最喜欢的是——几乎让我惊掉了下巴——为什么要这么做？
I mean, my first reaction to them is-- I mean, I'm proud of her.
我的意思是，我对他们的第一反应是——我的意思是，我为她感到骄傲。
And then I realize I actually have to answer these questions.
然后我意识到我实际上必须回答这些问题。
There are about three pages, single-spaced, of handwritten questions, about 50 questions total.
大约三页单行距的手写问题，总共大约 50 个问题。
But a promise was a promise, so Matt got to work.
但承诺就是承诺，所以马特开始工作。
He's a professor at West Point, teaches writing.
他是西点军校的教授，教授写作。
And so he took a professorial approach to it and started researching answers for her, looking up quotes on each topic, spending weeks, sometimes months, writing each answer.
因此，他采取了教授的方法，开始为她研究答案，查找每个主题的引文，花费数周甚至数月的时间写下每个答案。
What's the shortest and what's the longest you've ever spent, and what's the hardest one?
你经历过的最短的和最长的是什么，最难的是什么？
So I think the longest one is one that I haven't finished answering for her yet, which is, what is love?
所以我想最长的一篇我还没替她回答完，那就是爱情是什么？
What's been the easiest one to answer so far?
到目前为止最容易回答的问题是什么？
I got him to read me one of the answers he worked hardest on.
我让他给我读了他最努力的答案之一。
The answer to time-- why?
时间给出答案——为什么？
Explain.
解释。
Could you read it for me?
你能为我读一下吗？
Matt Sure.
马特当然。
So tell me what and tell me why, and the burden is on me to justify this to you.
所以请告诉我什么，告诉我为什么，我有责任向你证明这一点。
Perhaps that's what time means in the end, is justification or a lack of being justified.
也许这就是时间最终的意义，是正当性还是缺乏正当性。
And I don't really know what justification means.
我真的不知道正当理由是什么意思。
There was an old movie I saw when I was a kid in your grandmother's house--
我小时候在你奶奶家看过一部老电影——
He quotes Camus, then brings in the Millennium Falcon, then St. Augustine, then Kierkegaard.
他引用了加缪的话，然后引入了千年隼，然后是圣奥古斯丁，然后是克尔凯郭尔。
Rosie was nine.
罗西九岁。
All his answers are like this.
他所有的回答都是这样的。
Kierkegaard gets to this point after either/or'ing everything.
克尔凯郭尔在对所有事情进行非此即彼之后到达了这一点。
He says, why did I not die as a baby?
他说，为什么我没有在婴儿时期就死去？
I'm a grown-up, and I find it impossible to follow your answers.
我是一个成年人，我发现不可能遵循你的答案。
Honestly, I have not any idea what you're saying.
老实说，我不知道你在说什么。
OK.
好的。
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
[笑]是的。
I mean, I really don't understand half of what I just said either, to be honest.
我的意思是，说实话，我也确实听不懂我刚才所说的一半内容。
What his answers do have going for them is sincerity.
他的回答对他们来说确实是真诚的。
The time one ends like this.
时间就这样结束了。
In one of my favorite stories by a guy named William Faulkner, there's a daddy who gives his kid a watch and says, I give you this watch, not that you might remember time, but so that you might forget it for a little while.
在我最喜欢的一个名叫威廉·福克纳的故事中，有一位爸爸给了他的孩子一块手表，并说，我给你这块手表，不是为了让你记住时间，而是为了让你暂时忘记它。
I can only tell you that time is me turning and turning while the world is turning around a star that turns around a center that turns around the whole time.
我只能告诉你，时间是我转啊转，而世界则绕着一颗恒星转，而这颗恒星又绕着一个中心转，而这个中心一直在转。
Among all the other things, the little turning animals on all the little turning worlds, there is me, trying to turn to you.
在所有其他事物中，在所有转动的小世界上的转动的小动物中，有我，试图转向你。
OK.
好的。
And you just told her this answer like this?
你就这样告诉她这个答案？
I mean, she would kind of pass in and out of being interested in it.
我的意思是，她有时会对它感兴趣，有时又不感兴趣。
And at the end of it she's just kind of like, oh, yeah, OK.
最后她只是有点像，哦，是的，好吧。
And I'm like, all right, well.
我想，好吧，好吧。
I mean, do you see what I'm saying about time?
我的意思是，你明白我所说的时间吗？
It's a measurement of change.
这是对变化的衡量。
It's an arbitrary human construct, but not, but it feels different, so it's phenomena.
这是一个任意的人类构造，但不是，但感觉不同，所以它是现象。
She's like, yeah, yeah, OK.
她说，是啊，是啊，好吧。
I was like, oh, well, this isn't really exactly what I wanted.
我当时想，哦，好吧，这并不完全是我想要的。
That's not what you wanted because you were like, oh, this is kind of boring?
这不是你想要的，因为你会想，哦，这有点无聊？
Yeah.
是的。
Stephanie Foo Rosie has a pixie cut and a cheeky grin.
斯蒂芬妮·福·罗西 (Stephanie Foo Rosie) 有着精灵般的发型和厚脸皮的笑容。
She gave her dad the 50 questions three years ago.
三年前，她向父亲提出了 50 个问题。
She's 12 now.
她现在12岁了。
He's been working on getting her answers, but he's only gone through 2/3 of them because it takes him so long to cobble together a response.
他一直在努力寻找她的答案，但他只完成了其中的 2/3，因为他花了很长时间才拼凑出答案。
What I found out talking to Rosie is she didn't even really care about the answers to these questions.
我与罗西交谈后发现，她甚至并不真正关心这些问题的答案。
Questions that I thought that would take him a long time to answer, because at the time I really just wanted to talk to him.
我认为他要花很长时间才能回答的问题，因为当时我真的只是想和他谈谈。
It all started when she first moved to New York City.
这一切都始于她第一次搬到纽约市时。
Before then, she'd been living with her mom and grandparents most of the week.
在那之前，她一周的大部分时间都和妈妈和祖父母住在一起。
But then her grandpa, who she was really close to, died, and she had to move in with her dad during the week instead.
但后来她非常亲近的爷爷去世了，她不得不在一周内搬去和父亲住在一起。
At the same time, she started at a new school where the kids either ignored or bullied her, and she felt lost.
与此同时，她开始在一所新学校，孩子们要么忽视她，要么欺负她，她感到失落。
One day, she came home from school and decided she needed to do something about it.
有一天，她放学回家，决定为此做点什么。
I was lonely, and I felt a little sad that nobody had really stepped out to say, oh, hey, it's going to be OK.
我很孤独，我感到有点难过，因为没有人真正站出来说，哦，嘿，一切都会好起来的。
I'll be your friend.
我会成为你的朋友。
So that's when I really, really needed somebody to talk to.
所以那时我真的非常需要有人倾诉。
So you didn't have anybody to talk to at school?
那么你在学校没有人可以说话吗？
No. That's really why I felt like, oh, this is my dad.
不，这就是为什么我觉得，哦，这是我爸爸。
He's a really important person.
他是一个非常重要的人。
I love him very much.
我非常爱他。
I really want to become closer with him.
我真的很想和他变得更亲近。
I wish there was something that I could do to make us closer.
我希望我能做点什么让我们更亲近。
Did you feel like your dad wasn't paying enough attention to you?
你有没有觉得爸爸对你不够重视？
Yeah, a little bit.
是的，有一点。
Or not a little bit, yeah.
或者不是一点点，是的。
What was he doing instead?
他在做什么呢？
Rosie He was writing papers on his computer.
Rosie He 正在电脑上写论文。
And I knew, at the time, how important it was, but part of me still wished that, like, put down all the screens, put down everything else, and just talk.
当时我知道它有多重要，但我的一部分仍然希望，比如，放下所有屏幕，放下其他一切，只是说话。
So I wrote all the questions down, and they were big questions because I know my dad.
所以我写下了所有的问题，它们都是大问题，因为我了解我的父亲。
And if it's a little question, he'll elaborate on it, and he'll make it a big deal.
如果这是一个小问题，他会详细说明，然后他会把它变成一个大问题。
So if you times that by a big complex question, that would be a huge talk.
因此，如果你将其与一个复杂的大问题相结合，那将是一个巨大的谈话。
Is it true that you weren't talking to her much at the time?
你当时真的没怎么跟她说话吗？
No, I think I was talking to her all the time.
不，我想我一直在和她说话。
I would tell her it's time to get up and go to school.
我会告诉她该起床去学校了。
I would tell her that it was time to do her homework.
我会告诉她该做作业了。
I would tell her that she needed a new jacket.
我会告诉她她需要一件新夹克。
Yeah, I mean, I talked to you all the time.
是的，我是说，我一直在和你说话。
Maybe you're noticing the purely logistical nature of everything he mentioned.
也许您注意到他提到的一切纯粹是逻辑性质的。
It certainly didn't get past Rosie.
罗西当然没能逃过这一劫。
Yeah, but to me, it's not really the same thing.
是的，但对我来说，这并不是同一件事。
So conversation and talking are completely different things.
所以谈话和说话是完全不同的事情。
Talking could be a range from, oh, hey, what's up?
谈话的范围可能是，哦，嘿，怎么了？
And conversation is you're deep in thought, and you're looking, and you're making eye contact, and you're really enjoying the presence of somebody else.
谈话就是你在沉思，你在看，你在进行目光接触，你真的很享受别人的存在。
Rosie's a smart kid, yeah, but this is the thing I really admire about her.
罗西是个聪明的孩子，是的，但这是我真正钦佩她的一点。
Matt was a single dad with two kids, going to school and trying to make the rent at the same time.
马特是一位有两个孩子的单亲爸爸，一边上学，一边努力挣房租。
Telling him to pay attention to her didn't cut it, so she figured out something else.
告诉他注意她并没有解决问题，所以她想出了别的办法。
I read this short story recently about a successful con man whose motto was, make them want to give you the thing you want to take.
我最近读了一个关于一个成功的骗子的短篇故事，他的座右铭是，让他们想要给你你想拿的东西。
Rosie made her dad want to give her attention by making an opportunity to do what he loved, ponder over life's big questions.
罗西让她父亲有机会做他喜欢做的事，思考人生的重大问题，从而引起她的关注。
My dad was kind of hard-shelled, I guess.
我猜我父亲是个铁石心肠的人。
And so it took a lot.
所以这花了很多时间。
I had to keep asking these questions and keep wondering.
我不得不不断地问这些问题并不断地思考。
For me, it was just-- I had to keep going, and keep trying, and keep being this little bird that goes on your shoulders, like, I'm now your friend.
对我来说，这只是——我必须继续前进，继续尝试，继续成为这只落在你肩膀上的小鸟，就像，我现在是你的朋友。
Do you feel like it sort of taught him how to talk to you better?
你觉得这教会了他如何更好地与你交谈吗？
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
Over the past three years, we've really worked on having actual conversations than him just answering questions for me because we practice it.
在过去的三年里，我们真的致力于进行实际的对话，而不是他只是为我回答问题，因为我们练习了它。
Rosie never knew that her dad spent months and months writing down each answer.
罗西从来不知道她的父亲花了几个月的时间写下每个答案。
Matt only told her when I started working on this story.
马特只是在我开始研究这个故事时才告诉她的。
And she said she felt like, what?
她说她感觉，什么？
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吧？
I had no idea that he was doing all these things, and it was just a big surprise for me.
我不知道他正在做所有这些事情，这对我来说只是一个很大的惊喜。
If I could, I would definitely just say forget the questions.
如果可以的话，我肯定会说忘记这些问题。
I just want to talk.
我只是想谈谈。
So you're like, well, you don't even have to go through all that trouble.
所以你会想，好吧，你甚至不必经历所有这些麻烦。
Yeah.
是的。
Stephanie Foo Rosie said this to her dad when she found out, and it really threw him for a loop.
斯蒂芬妮·福·罗西 (Stephanie Foo Rosie) 得知此事后向她父亲说了这件事，这让他大吃一惊。
Yeah, it was a complete waste of time.
是的，这完全是浪费时间。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I mean, what a complete waste of time to come up with these big, extensive projects that-- they were definitely less important to them than just listening to them.
我的意思是，提出这些大型、广泛的项目完全是浪费时间——对他们来说，这些项目绝对不如仅仅听他们的重要。
Hm.
嗯。
Matt What is time-- why?
马特 现在几点了——为什么？
Explain.
解释。
Well, I can tell you what I don't want time to be.
好吧，我可以告诉你我不希望时间变成什么样子。
I don't want time to be something where I am just figuring out that I need to shut up and make some time to listen to this little kid before it's too late.
我不希望时间成为我只是想知道我需要闭嘴并花一些时间听这个小孩说话的事情，以免为时已晚。
Rosie really started asking the questions because she wanted to know that she wasn't alone and that everything was going to be OK.
罗西真的开始问这些问题，因为她想知道她并不孤单，一切都会好起来的。
Now she enjoys hearing the answers because they remind her that that's true.
现在她很高兴听到答案，因为它们提醒她这是真的。
That's why one of her favorite answers is the ending of time-- why?
这就是为什么她最喜欢的答案之一是时间的终结——为什么？
Explain-- the part about all of the planets turning around themselves and in the middle of it Matt turning towards Rosie.
解释一下——所有行星都围绕自己旋转的部分，在中间，马特转向罗西。
One of the meanings of that is even though everything is happening around you, he just wants to know about me a little more, I guess.
其中的含义之一是，即使你周围发生了一切，我想他只是想多了解我一点。
And a thing that I really like about that is because he just uses these sentences that make me happy when I read them.
我真正喜欢的一点是，他使用的这些句子让我读起来很开心。
It's kind of funny.
这有点好笑。
When he read this to me, he sort of choked up a little bit.
当他读给我听时，他有点哽咽。
Yeah.
是的。
He likes to be kind of a one-expression person, but when he reads stuff like this he gets all emotional.
他喜欢成为一个单一表情的人，但当他读到这样的东西时，他就会变得情绪化。
In the car ride here, he was like, oh, I love you so much.
在开车来这里的路上，他说，哦，我非常爱你。
And he was tearing up and looking out the window, so.
他泪流满面，看着窗外，所以。
Stephanie Foo So people have been asking these big, important questions like, why are we here?
Stephanie Foo 所以人们一直在问这些重要的大问题，比如我们为什么在这里？
What is life-- forever?
什么是生命——永远？
And do you think that the real big reason why we ask it is to have a reason to talk to each other?
您认为我们提出这个问题的真正重要原因是为了有一个互相交谈的理由吗？
No. I think that philosophers actually really do wonder about these things, and they don't use it so that they can talk to their dads more.
不。我认为哲学家确实对这些事情感到好奇，但他们不会利用它来与他们的父亲进行更多的交谈。
They use it because they really wonder about these things, and they want to know everything about it.
他们使用它是因为他们真的想知道这些事情，并且他们想知道有关它的一切。
But for my personal use, yes.
但对于我个人使用来说，是的。
That's exactly it.
就是这样。
Matt does still want to keep answering Rosie's questions for her, but as for the hardest question, what is love, I don't think Rosie needs her dad to explain that to her anymore.
马特仍然想继续为她回答罗西的问题，但至于最难的问题，什么是爱，我认为罗西不再需要她爸爸向她解释了。
She gets it.
她明白了。
Stephanie Foo.
史蒂芬妮·福.
She's currently writing a book about complex PTSD.
她目前正在写一本关于复杂创伤后应激障碍的书。
These days, Rosie is a freshman in high school, and she goes by Rory now.
如今，罗西 (Rosie) 是一名高中新生，现在她的名字是罗里 (Rory)。
We checked in with her.
我们和她一起检查了。
She says she's using her time cooped up at home with her family right now to draw and listen to music.
她说她现在正在利用与家人待在家里的时间来画画和听音乐。
She says everybody is getting along.
她说大家都相处得很融洽。
Act Two, "Call Me Maybe." So many of us are concerned right now about our older relatives, especially our parents and grandparents.
第二幕，“也许可以打电话给我。”我们很多人现在都关心我们的年长亲戚，尤其是我们的父母和祖父母。
And this story, in the most literal way, is about reaching out over the phone.
这个故事，用最字面的方式来说，是关于通过电话进行联系的。
Sean Cole put it together.
肖恩·科尔把它放在一起。
Yo, Sean.
哟，肖恩。
This is your mom.
这是你的妈妈。
I wasn't home.
我不在家。
About four or five years ago, I started saving all my mom's voicemails, thinking, she's not going to be around forever.
大约四五年前，我开始保存妈妈所有的语音邮件，心想，她不会永远在身边。
I'm going to want to hear her voice when she's gone, though somehow I didn't extend that thought to I could hear her voice right now if I picked up the phone.
当她离开时，我会想听到她的声音，尽管不知怎的，我没有把这个想法延伸到如果我拿起电话我现在就能听到她的声音。
She had a talent for the form.
她在形式方面有天赋。
With some of them, it almost feels like I'm talking to her, except she's playing both parts.
对于其中一些人来说，感觉就像是我在和她说话，只不过她同时扮演了两个角色。
What time is it?
现在是几奌？
Oh, it's 6:52, huh?
哦，现在是 6 点 52 分，是吗？
Yeah, it's later than I thought.
是的，比我想象的要晚。
I can't believe it's still light out.
我不敢相信天还亮着。
Decided to go to the Royal for supper tonight, so that's what we did.
决定今晚去皇家吃晚饭，所以我们就这么做了。
We went early, and we are back early.
我们去得早，回来得也早。
So I don't know what you're doing.
所以我不知道你在做什么。
So this is me.
这就是我。
C'est moi.
这就是我。
I'm here.
我在这儿。
Right.
正确的。
Yo aqui.
哟阿基。
C'est moi.
这就是我。
That's "it's me" in French.
法语的意思是“是我”。
Sometimes there's not much more than that.
有时除此之外就没有更多了。
C'est moi.
这就是我。
Love you lots.
非常爱你。
Talk to you soon.
很快就和你谈谈。
Bye.
再见。
This one's even shorter.
这个更短。
Sean's Mom C'est moi.
肖恩的妈妈就是我。
Bye.
再见。
But of course, all the messages boil down to her saying, in one creative way or another, please call me back.
但当然，所有的信息都归结为她说的，以一种创造性的方式，请给我回电话。
Sometimes she was a lot more direct about it.
有时她对此更直接。
(SLOWLY) Don't forget to call your mother.
（慢慢地）别忘了给你妈妈打电话。
Goodbye.
再见。
Actually, here's the one that I always tell people about when I'm talking about her messages.
事实上，这是我在谈论她的信息时总是告诉人们的一个。
It's like she sort of circles and then goes in for the kill.
就像她绕了一圈然后就开始杀人一样。
I heard you on the radio on Sunday, and I knew it was you because I can recognize your voice, even though it's been a long time since I've heard it on the phone.
周日我在广播中听到了你的声音，我知道是你，因为我能认出你的声音，尽管我已经很久没有在电话里听到过你的声音了。
So anyway, I love you lots and lots.
所以无论如何，我非常非常爱你。
Call me when you think of it, if you ever do.
当你想到这件事的时候就给我打电话，如果你有的话。
Love you.
爱你。
Bye.
再见。
My mom-- her name was Pat-- she died on September 28, 2015 at 4:22 in the morning.
我的妈妈——她的名字叫帕特——她于 2015 年 9 月 28 日凌晨 4:22 去世。
It was relatively sudden and totally unexpected.
这是相对突然且完全出乎意料的。
And as much as I thought I was preparing myself for that moment, I wasn't prepared.
尽管我以为我已经为那一刻做好了准备，但我并没有准备好。
It's true I didn't call enough, but she was still the first person I thought to call when something huge happened, good or bad.
确实，我打的电话不够多，但当有大事发生时，无论好坏，她仍然是我第一个想到打电话的人。
I loved talking to her.
我喜欢和她说话。
She was funny, as you can tell, and smart.
正如你所知，她很有趣，而且很聪明。
She wrote technical manuals in the early days of personal computing.
她在个人计算的早期撰写技术手册。
Later in life, she lugged a lot of pro-grade camera equipment around the world, taking pictures.
在后来的生活中，她拖着很多专业级的相机设备到世界各地拍照。
And yet, she had a hard time figuring out her smartphone.
然而，她很难弄清楚她的智能手机。
The last recording I have from her saved on my phone was a pocket dial.
我手机上保存的她的最后一段录音是袖珍拨号盘。
[SCUFFLING] This goes on for three minutes.
[扭打]这持续了三分钟。
No, I didn't make it this morning.
不，我今天早上没来得及。
I figured that I was pretty busy.
我觉得我很忙。
After Mom died, I started calling home a lot more to talk to my stepdad, Ed Hacker.
妈妈去世后，我开始经常打电话回家与我的继父艾德·哈克交谈。
He and I never really had a phone relationship when my mother was alive.
当我母亲在世时，他和我从未真正建立过电话关系。
It was more the classic thing of, you want to say hi to Ed?
这是更经典的事情，你想向埃德打个招呼吗？
And then we'd verbally clap each other on the back and then back to Mom.
然后我们会口头拍拍对方的背，然后回到妈妈身边。
These days, it's not weird for us to spend almost two hours on the phone together.
如今，我们在一起打电话近两个小时并不奇怪。
You are the most active octogenarian on Twitter that I know about.
据我所知，你是 Twitter 上最活跃的八十多岁老人。
Well, I try to send out about six or seven tweets.
好吧，我尝试发送大约六到七条推文。
I think of how annoyed my mom would be if she knew this, but I'm now performing the exact telephone behavior she wanted from me when she was around, except now with Ed.
我想到如果我妈妈知道了这一点，她会多么恼火，但我现在正在执行她在我身边时想要我做的一模一样的电话行为，除了现在和艾德在一起。
I call about once a week on average, and it's always me initiating the calls now.
我平均每周打一次电话，现在都是我主动打电话。
At first, of course, it was mainly to make sure he was holding up OK and to make sure I was holding up OK.
当然，一开始主要是为了确保他能坚持住，并确保我能坚持住。
But even now, when I miss a week, it eats at me.
但即使是现在，当我缺席一周的时候，我还是会很痛苦。
I'm thinking, got to call Ed, got to call Ed.
我在想，必须给艾德打电话，必须给艾德打电话。
It's like an injustice that he's getting this treatment and not her, and I keep trying to square it somehow.
他得到了这样的待遇，而不是她，这就像一种不公平，我一直试图以某种方式弥补它。
But when I put this to Ed, he basically said it's really not that big a mystery.
但当我把这个告诉艾德时，他基本上说这并不是什么大谜团。
Kind of obvious that if one parent dies, you realize that the other one may not be that far off, that he will go too, or she.
很明显，如果父母之一去世，你就会意识到另一位父母可能离你不远，他或她也会去世。
So the scarcity, just like in economics, makes the value go up.
因此，就像经济学一样，稀缺性会导致价值上涨。
I never thought of this in economic terms before.
我以前从未从经济角度考虑过这个问题。
Well, it's true of many things.
嗯，很多事情都是如此。
If the population is very low--
如果人口很少的话——
Ed's 87.
艾德87岁。
He taught philosophy and logic at a university in Boston for a lot of years, which is fitting because Ed is very logical and philosophical.
他在波士顿的一所大学教授哲学和逻辑学很多年，这很合适，因为埃德非常有逻辑性和哲学性。
He's always quoting one or another great thinker.
他总是引用一位或另一位伟大思想家的名言。
For fun, he does math.
为了好玩，他做数学。
He and my mom got together when I was six.
我六岁时他和我妈妈在一起了。
He moved in when I was 11.
我11岁的时候他就搬进来了。
And I think he's right that I call because I'm more aware than ever that one day he won't be on the other end of the phone, but it's more than that too.
我认为我打电话给他是对的，因为我比以往任何时候都更清楚有一天他不会在电话的另一端，但事情还不止于此。
Even though we have all of these other people in our family whom we love, it got to feeling like Ed's the other one Mom's death happened to, like he and I were the ones who mutually needed to talk about Mom and to hear about her.
尽管我们家里还有我们所爱的其他人，但感觉就像艾德是妈妈去世时发生的另一个人，就像他和我是彼此需要谈论妈妈并听到她的人一样。
I feel that, yes, I can talk to you about Pat because you're willing to talk to her about it.
我觉得，是的，我可以和你谈论帕特，因为你愿意和她谈论这件事。
To you about it, yeah.
对你来说，是的。
Ed Hacker And it makes a big difference to me.
Ed Hacker 这对我来说意义重大。
I'm so glad to hear that.
我很高兴听到这个消息。
Ed Hacker Because you lost the same person, even if it's somewhat similar if somebody else has lost someone else, like these groups in which everyone has lost a spouse.
艾德·哈克：因为你失去了同一个人，即使如果其他人失去了另一个人，情况有些相似，就像这些每个人都失去了配偶的群体一样。
And their memories are different.
而且他们的记忆也不同。
You never met that other person that died, and you really don't care.
你从未见过另一个死去的人，你也不在乎。
I mean--
我的意思是——
[LAUGHS] Ed Hacker You care about your loss.
[笑] Ed Hacker 你关心你的损失。
I mean, you know.
我的意思是，你知道。
Are you on the deck now?
你现在在甲板上吗？
Ed Hacker I am.
艾德·哈克 我是。
For a long time, my mom was a third invisible person in all of these conversations, but we've both noticed we're talking about mom less and less.
很长一段时间，我妈妈在所有这些谈话中都是第三个隐形人，但我们都注意到我们谈论妈妈的次数越来越少。
People told me this would happen, but I didn't really believe them, or I didn't want to.
人们告诉我这会发生，但我并不真正相信他们，或者我不想相信。
Time slouches on.
时间悄然流逝。
You wake up to different thoughts in the morning.
早上醒来时，你会有不同的想法。
And when you call home, the first thing you say isn't, how are you holding up?
当你打电话回家时，你说的第一句话不是，你还好吗？
It used to be that you would kind of mark how long it had been.
过去你会记下已经过去了多长时间。
You'd say, I can't believe it's been three-- it'll be three months on Monday, or I can't believe it'll be nine months on Thursday or whatever.
你可能会说，我不敢相信已经三个月了——周一就已经是三个月了，或者我不敢相信周四就已经是九个月了，或者其他什么。
You do?
你做？
Ed Hacker Yeah.
艾德·哈克 是的。
And I also have an app on my computer, all three of them, which is set to tell me how many days since Pat died.
我的电脑上还有一个应用程序，这三个应用程序都可以告诉我帕特去世后多少天。
I didn't know that.
我不知道。
Ed Hacker So this way-- I'm going there right now to see what my apps are.
Ed Hacker 那么这样——我现在就去那里看看我的应用程序是什么。
Well, it's been 22 months and three days since she's died.
好吧，距离她去世已经过去了 22 个月又三天了。
Or if you want, one year, 10 months, and three days.
或者如果你愿意的话，也可以是一年十个月零三天。
Or if you want, 96 weeks.
或者如果你愿意，也可以是 96 周。
And what do you feel like, looking at that?
看到这个你有什么感觉？
Don't have any particular feeling.
没有什么特别的感觉。
It's just that it's amazing that it's almost two years.
只是，已经快两年了，真是太神奇了。
Hm.
嗯。
Ed Hacker It's like saying, I remember.
艾德·哈克（Ed Hacker）这就像说，我记得。
Yeah, I feel like I need something like that, some sort of-- I just feel like I don't think about her enough.
是的，我觉得我需要类似的东西，某种——我只是觉得我对她的思念还不够。
Well, that you'll have to explain.
好吧，你得解释一下。
Why should you think more?
何必多想呢？
I don't-- it's just like-- Ed Hacker Is it guilt or something?
我不——只是——艾德·哈克 这是内疚还是什么？
It's not guilt, no. It's-- Ed Hacker You feel like you'll honor her more by thinking about her?
这不是内疚，不。这是——艾德·哈克（Ed Hacker） 你觉得你会因为想起她而更加尊重她吗？
It's like, yeah, I want to honor her more by thinking about her, and it also feels like there's something going on in me all the time that I'm not acknowledging that leaks out in these other ways.
就像，是的，我想通过思考她来更多地尊重她，而且感觉我内心一直在发生一些事情，但我没有承认这些事情会以其他方式泄漏出来。
And I just miss her, and so it's like I need to put that missing somewhere.
我只是想念她，所以我需要把这份思念放在某个地方。
Yeah.
是的。
I have one up on the wall in my office.
我办公室的墙上挂着一张。
OK.
好的。
Take another one.
再拿一张。
And every day, move it from one spot to another in your apartment.
每天，将它从公寓的一个地方移到另一个地方。
That's a really good idea.
这真是个好主意。
Did you just think of that?
你刚才想到了吗？
But the truth is I already have the ritual I need.
但事实是我已经有了我需要的仪式。
I don't do it every day, but I do it just about every week.
我不是每天都这样做，但我几乎每周都会这样做。
I call Ed.
我打了电话。
We talk.
我们说话。
For this specific need I have, it turns out he's the perfect person to call.
对于我的这一特殊需求，事实证明他是最合适的人选。
Maybe you've got somebody like that, a personal Ghostbuster when there's something strange in the neighborhood, when things are looking their worst, that person who will know what you're talking about, even if they can't understand what you're saying.
也许你有这样的人，一个个人的捉鬼敢死队，当附近出现奇怪的事情时，当事情看起来最糟糕时，那个人会知道你在说什么，即使他们听不懂你在说什么。
And all you got to do is call.
您所要做的就是打电话。
Sean Cole.
肖恩·科尔.
When he checked in with Ed this week, Ed was the same as always and doing well.
本周，当他与艾德联系时，艾德和往常一样，表现得很好。
He turns 90 in April.
4 月份他就满 90 岁了。
Act Three, "Mom." OK, so this is a story we first put on the air in 1996.
第三幕，《妈妈》。好的，这是我们 1996 年首次播出的故事。
And yes, our program has been on the air for a long time.
是的，我们的节目已经播出很长时间了。
Diane, who's putting together this part of the show with me, producer Diane Wu, she listened to this recording, and she told me that I sound exactly the same in it as I sound today, which-- I don't know.
黛安，她和我一起制作这部分节目，制片人黛安·吴，她听了这段录音，她告诉我，我在里面的声音和今天的声音一模一样，我不知道。
Is that a good thing?
这是一件好事吗？
Is that not a good thing?
这不是一件好事吗？
Shouldn't a person grow?
人不应该成长吗？
I think I should sound at least a little different.
我想我的声音至少应该有所不同。
Anyway, here is how I introduced this story back then in 1996.
不管怎样，我在 1996 年是这样介绍这个故事的。
Quick warning, before the story starts, that this story acknowledges the existence of sex.
在故事开始之前，快速警告一下，这个故事承认性的存在。
OK, here we go.
好的，我们开始吧。
Our parents can surprise us with what they don't tell us, with what they don't talk about, especially when it comes to sex.
我们的父母可能会用他们不告诉我们的事情、不谈论的事情让我们感到惊讶，尤其是在性方面。
Recently I had this experience.
最近我就有这样的经历。
An ex-girlfriend was in the gym, looking through a copy of Marie Claire magazine, women's magazine.
一位前女友在健身房里翻阅一本女性杂志《嘉人》杂志。
And there was an article in it on women's fantasies, their sexual fantasies-- what do your man's dirty daydreams reveal about what he wants from you?
里面有一篇关于女人的幻想，她们的性幻想的文章——你的男人的肮脏的白日梦揭示了他想从你那里得到什么？
In the article, six sexperts-- that was the word they used, "sexperts"-- reveal the six most common male sex fantasy scenarios.
在这篇文章中，六位性专家——他们用的词是“性专家”——揭示了六种最常见的男性性幻想场景。
So my ex-girlfriend is reading.
所以我的前女友正在读书。
And there, in the third paragraph, one of the sexperts turns out to be my mother.
在第三段中，其中一位性专家就是我的母亲。
Yeah?
是的？
Ira Glass So I'd like to do a little interview.
Ira Glass 所以我想做一个简短的采访。
OK.
好的。
Ira Glass OK.
艾拉·格拉斯 好的。
So Mom, can I read to you a quote from an article?
妈妈，我可以给你读一篇文章中的引言吗？
Of course.
当然。
Ira Glass OK.
艾拉·格拉斯 好的。
Here it is.
这里是。
"Your man wants a woman who excites him through her own excitement.
“你的男人想要一个能通过自己的兴奋让他兴奋的女人。
You could stimulate yourself while he watches or let him participate by moving his hand to where you want it."
你可以在他观看的时候刺激自己，或者让他把手移到你想要的地方来参与。”
Yeah?
是的？
Ira Glass That's you being quoted in Marie Claire.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 这是《嘉人》杂志上引用的你的话。
[LAUGHS] You're kidding.
[笑]你在开玩笑。
What is [INAUDIBLE]?
什么是[听不清]？
All I know is that Anaheed was at the gym, and she opens up Marie Claire to an article called "Men's Sexual Fantasies." And it says at the top, "Here, sexperts reveal the six most common scenarios, unlock the secret longings and psyches of the modern men who fantasize." And you basically are one of the sexperts.
我只知道阿纳希德在健身房，她向《嘉人》杂志打开了一篇名为“男人的性幻想”的文章。顶部写道：“在这里，性专家揭示了六种最常见的场景，解开了现代男性幻想的秘密渴望和心灵。”你基本上是性专家之一。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I am.
是的，我是。
Ira Glass I didn't really know you were a sexpert.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：我真的不知道你是个性专家。
What did you think I was?
你以为我是什么？
Ira Glass [LAUGHS] Just another Jewish mom and psychologist.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）[笑]又一位犹太妈妈和心理学家。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Ira Glass So it wasn't like you were a sexpert and you were keeping it from your family?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：所以你并不是一个性专家，并且你对你的家人隐瞒了这件事？
You're talking about my family meaning my children, not my husband?
你说的是我的家庭，是指我的孩子，而不是我的丈夫？
Yeah.
是的。
Shirley Glass Because he knows that I'm a sexpert.
雪莉·格拉斯 因为他知道我是性专家。
[LAUGHS] But my children always seem embarrassed if I discuss anything sexual.
[笑]但是如果我讨论任何与性有关的事情，我的孩子们总是显得很尴尬。
So therefore, I tend not to around them.
因此，我倾向于不围绕他们。
When would you try to discuss something sexual with us?
您什么时候会尝试与我们讨论性方面的问题？
I might make a joke or say something that had a sexual connotation, and I'd get this disapproval.
我可能会开个玩笑或者说一些带有性暗示的话，我会遭到这种反对。
No?
不？
Ira Glass Yeah.
艾拉·格拉斯 是的。
Actually, I mean, it doesn't affect me in any way to think that you and Dad would be sexual with each other.
事实上，我的意思是，你和爸爸发生性行为对我来说没有任何影响。
In fact, I even remember, as a teenager, understanding that and being kind of reassured by it.
事实上，我什至记得，作为一个青少年，我理解这一点并因此感到安心。
Mhm.
嗯。
Ira Glass Does that make any sense?
艾拉·格拉斯 这有道理吗？
It makes a little bit of sense, but it really doesn't cover all the situations, if I'm just telling a joke or talking about somebody else.
它有一点道理，但如果我只是讲一个笑话或谈论别人，它确实不能涵盖所有情况。
And I think it has to do with boundaries.
我认为这与边界有关。
And I think it has to do with that children, even adult children, do not like to regard their parents' sexuality.
我认为这与孩子们，甚至是成年孩子，不喜欢考虑父母的性取向有关。
Hm.
嗯。
You know something?
你知道什么吗？
You're actually convincing me.
你确实在说服我。
Well, let's do a little scientific test.
好吧，让我们做一个小科学测试。
Can you think of a sexual joke?
你能想到一个性笑话吗？
You just tell one right now, and I'll tell you my reaction.
你现在就告诉一个，我会告诉你我的反应。
You know what I'm feeling right now?
你知道我现在的感受吗？
I'm feeling a profound--
我有一种深刻的感受——
Wait, wait, no. Shirley Glass I heard a wonderful joke, but I don't even know if it's a joke or a story.
等等，等等，不。雪莉·格拉斯 我听到了一个很棒的笑话，但我什至不知道这是一个笑话还是一个故事。
This is something that might be true, that when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and he said, one giant step for man and one-- what is it-- one giant step for mankind or whatever--
这可能是真的，当尼尔·阿姆斯特朗在月球上行走时，他说，这是人类的一大步，而一个——这是什么——人类的一大步或其他什么——
One small step for man, one giant step for mankind.
个人的一小步，人类的一大步。
Right, right.
对，对。
That's it, one small step for man, one giant step for mankind.
就这样，我个人的一小步，人类的一大步。
And then he also said, good luck, Mr. Gorsky.
然后他还说，祝你好运，戈尔斯基先生。
And for years, people have been asking him what that meant.
多年来，人们一直在问他这意味着什么。
And he would never tell them.
他永远不会告诉他们。
And then this year, someone brought it up again.
然后今年，又有人提起这个话题。
What did you mean when you said, good luck, Mr. Gorsky?
你说“祝你好运，戈尔斯基先生”是什么意思？
And he said, well, I can tell now because Mr. Gorsky died this year.
他说，好吧，我现在可以知道了，因为戈尔斯基先生今年去世了。
When I was a little boy, Mr. Gorsky was our next door neighbor.
当我还是个小男孩的时候，戈尔斯基先生是我们的隔壁邻居。
And I was playing outside one day, and their bedroom window was open.
有一天我在外面玩，他们卧室的窗户开着。
And I heard Mrs. Gorsky say, oral sex?
我听到戈尔斯基夫人说，口交？
You want me to give you oral sex?
你想让我给你口交吗？
You'll get oral sex from me the day that boy next door walks on the moon.
当邻家男孩登上月球的那一天，你就会从我这里得到口交。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass Well, now I'm examining my own feelings.
[笑] Ira Glass 嗯，现在我正在审视自己的感受。
And I have to say, I did get very nervous there in a way that does not correspond, perhaps, with shrugging my shoulders at the notion of you having some sexual life and sexual thoughts.
我不得不说，我确实感到非常紧张，也许这与我对你有一些性生活和性想法耸肩的想法并不相符。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass So let me read you some of your other quotes here.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 那么，让我在这里读一下您的其他一些名言。
All right.
好的。
Ira Glass In the fantasy of man dominates woman, you're quoted as saying-- says Dr. Glass, quote, "In a caring relationship, it's certainly not abusive or unhealthy if the fantasy is played out in a light, teasing way." You're also quoted extensively in fantasy number five, spontaneous encounter with a beautiful stranger.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 在男人主宰女人的幻想中，格拉斯博士说，“在一段充满关爱的关系中，如果幻想以一种轻松、戏弄的方式进行，那当然不是虐待或不健康的。”你在第五部奇幻小说《与美丽的陌生人的自发邂逅》中也被广泛引用。
The key quote is this one, as far as I'm concerned-- "Go to a restaurant, and, at first, pretend you don't know each other," suggests Dr. Glass-- which, when I read that, it actually explained some dinners I've had with you and Dad.
就我而言，关键的引言是这句话——“去一家餐馆，一开始，假装你们彼此不认识，”格拉斯博士建议——当我读到这句话时，它实际上解释了我与你和爸爸一起吃过的一些晚餐。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass I thought.
[笑]我想是艾拉·格拉斯。
Well, you didn't talk very much between the two of you.
嗯，你们两个之间没怎么说话。
So have you actually-- have you-- have you done this?
那么你真的——你——做到了吗？
Have you gone to a restaurant with Dad and pretended that you didn't know each other?
你有没有和爸爸一起去餐馆假装不认识？
No. Ira Glass No. But if you did, you're saying that--
不。艾拉·格拉斯 不。但如果你这样做了，你就是在说——
We've gone to restaurants with you and pretended we didn't know you.
我们和你一起去餐馆，假装不认识你。
What do you mean by that?
你这是什么意思？
Shirley Glass Well, when you were younger, and--
雪莉·格拉斯 嗯，当你年轻的时候，还有——
[LAUGHS] Shirley Glass --and let's say that your manner of dressing didn't exactly conform to the style--
[笑]雪莉·格拉斯——假设你的着装方式并不完全符合风格——
All right, all right.
好吧，好吧。
I think everybody-- yeah.
我想每个人——是的。
--of the other people in the restaurant.
——餐厅里的其他人。
Back when Daddy-- Daddy would look at you, and he would start popping Gelusil when we'd go out to eat.
那时爸爸会看着你，当我们出去吃饭时，他会开始喝 Gelusil。
And I'd say, now Barry, people are going to look at him, they're going to look at us, and they're going to know that we did not pick out his clothes.
我想说，现在巴里，人们会看着他，他们会看着我们，他们会知道我们没有挑选他的衣服。
So now that I know that you're this big sexpert, do you have any sex advice for me?
既然我知道你是个性专家，你能给我什么性方面的建议吗？
Find a nice girl, and get married.
找一个漂亮的女孩，然后结婚。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
With that particular advice.
有了这个特别的建议。
Yeah, that's-- I know.
是的，那是——我知道。
[LAUGHS] I know.
[笑]我知道。
I could ask you any question, and that would be the advice.
我可以问你任何问题，这就是建议。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Ira Glass My mom, Dr. Shirley Glass, back in 1996.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 我的妈妈雪莉·格拉斯 (Shirley Glass) 博士，摄于 1996 年。
In that recording, she is a year younger than I am today.
在那段录音中，她比我今天小一岁。
Coming up, when a dad you know so well does something very, very uncharacteristic, what does it mean?
接下来，当一个你如此熟悉的父亲做了一些非常非常不寻常的事情时，这意味着什么？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass, speaking to you today not from a studio, but from home because our staff is working from home.
我是 Ira Glass，今天不是在工作室，而是在家里与大家交谈，因为我们的员工在家工作。
And also, I am on quarantine.
而且，我正在隔离中。
I'm actually talking to you from inside a closet.
我实际上是在壁橱里跟你说话。
It's an old recording trick, with the idea that the clothes absorb sound.
这是一个古老的录音技巧，其想法是衣服吸收声音。
I will just say, it's very cramped.
我只想说，这里非常狭窄。
Today on our program, with kids out of school all over the country and businesses closed, and people hunkered down at home with family, and also lots of people far from family and the ones they love, reaching out and worried for them, we have put together a show of family stories that we've made over the years.
今天，在我们的节目中，全国各地的孩子们失学，企业关门，人们和家人一起呆在家里，还有很多远离家人和他们所爱的人的人伸出援手，为他们担心，我们整理了一档我们多年来制作的家庭故事。
Both the stories in this next part of our show are people turning to their dads over the telephone with a question.
我们节目下一部分的两个故事都是人们通过电话向他们的父亲提出问题。
This first one, Act Four, "It Takes a Villa," comes from Neil Drumming.
第一个，第四幕，“它需要一座别墅”，来自尼尔·鼓明。
In the summer of 1982, my dad did something unexpected, something that seemed unbelievably indulgent.
1982 年夏天，我父亲做了一件出乎意料的事，一件看起来令人难以置信的纵容事。
He took me, my mom, my brother, and the youngest of my three sisters on the most epic road trip any of us could have possibly imagined at the time.
他带着我、我的妈妈、我的兄弟和我三个姐妹中最小的一个，踏上了我们当时所能想象到的最史诗般的公路旅行。
We piled into my dad's Buick Skylark and drove from Queens, New York to the World's Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee, where a robot danced for us, and then down into Orlando, Florida.
我们挤进我父亲的别克云雀，从纽约皇后区开往田纳西州诺克斯维尔的世界博览会，在那里一个机器人为我们跳舞，然后前往佛罗里达州奥兰多。
This was a big deal.
这是一件大事。
Before this, going away meant visiting relatives in South Carolina and sitting uncomfortably among aunts and second cousins whose names I would forget before we'd even pulled out of their dusty driveways.
在此之前，离开意味着去南卡罗来纳州拜访亲戚，并不舒服地坐在阿姨和远房表兄弟姐妹中间，在我们驶出尘土飞扬的车道之前，我就会忘记他们的名字。
This trip was not country heat and sipping sugar water on some rickety porch while listening to the inscrutable conversation of grown folk.
这次旅行不是乡村的炎热，也不是在摇摇晃晃的门廊上喝着糖水，听着成年人不可思议的谈话。
It was what going 1,000 miles from home should feel like.
这就是离家 1000 英里的感觉。
We cruised down a brightly-lit street called International Drive.
我们沿着一条灯火通明的街道行驶，这条街道叫做国际大道。
We stayed at a Holiday Inn taller and more grand than any I'd ever seen.
我们住的假日酒店比我见过的任何一家酒店都更高、更宏伟。
Sunlight streamed in through a hole in the ceiling, a hole that was supposed to be there.
阳光从天花板上的一个洞照进来，这个洞本来就在那里。
Our parents took us to a building that looked like a pile of poached eggs, but was actually Xanadu, House of the Future.
我们的父母带我们去了一座看起来像一堆荷包蛋的建筑，但实际上是“世外桃源”，未来之家。
And everywhere, along every roadside, billboards promised that the most magical scene still awaited us, this place, Disney World.
到处都是，每条路边都有广告牌，承诺最神奇的场景仍在等待着我们，这个地方，迪士尼世界。
By all accounts, it was paradise for kids.
从各方面来说，这里都是孩子们的天堂。
But between the gas, and the hotels, and the eating out, my dad quickly discovered how expensive taking even 60% of his brood on a Disney vacation could be.
但在汽油、酒店和外出就餐之间，我父亲很快就发现，即使带着他 60% 的孩子去迪士尼度假也是多么昂贵。
He was resigned to do it, but he wasn't above working the angles.
他无奈地做了这件事，但他并不介意从各个角度进行工作。
He found out that you could get cheap tickets to the Magic Kingdom if you just signed up to sit through an hour or so spiel from someone pitching timeshares.
他发现，如果你报名参加分时度假推销员的大约一个小时的演讲，就可以获得前往神奇王国的廉价机票。
He was in.
他进来了。
The hard sell went down at the Disney Village, a branded mini mall near the famous theme park.
迪士尼村（Disney Village）是著名主题公园附近的一个品牌迷你购物中心，其强行推销失败了。
My mom, dad, and a handful of other determined parents stowed their kids in a room full of toys that had been conveniently provided by the salespeople.
我的妈妈、爸爸和其他一些坚定的父母把他们的孩子放在一个装满玩具的房间里，这些玩具都是销售人员方便提供的。
The parents set about the business of listening, or not, waiting patiently for the moment when the closers would stop shilling and start handing out the Disney discounts.
父母们开始考虑听或不听，耐心等待收盘人停止先令并开始发放迪士尼折扣的那一刻。
But while we kids were in another room throwing LEGOs at one another, something surprising happened.
但当我们这些孩子在另一个房间里互相扔乐高积木时，令人惊讶的事情发生了。
My dad bit.
我爸爸咬了。
He went into a closed room to get three-day passes just so that I could eventually lose my glasses on Space Mountain, and he came out with a deed, the deed to something he and my mom were now calling our villa.
他走进一个封闭的房间去拿三天的通行证，这样我最终就可以在太空山上丢掉眼镜，他带着一份契约出来，他和我妈妈现在称之为我们别墅的契约。
My father was a bold man, but in retrospect this is the most impetuous action that I have ever seen him take.
我的父亲是个大胆的人，但现在回想起来，这是我见过他采取的最鲁莽的举动。
It cost him about $5,000, which he paid in installments.
他花了大约 5,000 美元，并分期付款。
In 1982, for a guy with five kids, who never made more than $33,000 a year at his day job, it was a considerable investment.
1982 年，对于一个有 5 个孩子、日常工作年收入从未超过 33,000 美元的人来说，这是一笔相当大的投资。
For those unfamiliar with timeshares, it may be hard to wrap your head around buying a vacation home that you never really own.
对于那些不熟悉分时度假的人来说，可能很难全神贯注于购买自己从未真正拥有的度假屋。
You pay upfront for it.
您预先支付费用。
There's an annual maintenance fee, but you only get to stay in it once a year or so, usually for a week at a time.
每年需要支付维护费，但您每年只能入住一次，通常一次一周。
It almost sounds like some sort of scam, and sometimes it is.
这听起来几乎像是某种骗局，有时确实如此。
But it didn't turn out that way for us.
但我们的情况并非如此。
Instead, it became a fixture in my family.
相反，它成了我家庭的固定组成部分。
My father had chosen, as our week, the first week in July.
我父亲选择了七月的第一周作为我们的一周。
And so every year, during one of the hottest months of the year, we would head down I-95 as always.
因此，每年，在一年中最热的月份之一，我们都会像往常一样沿着 95 号州际公路行驶。
But now when we pulled into South Carolina to see relatives, that was only a pit stop on the way to our true destination.
但现在，当我们驶入南卡罗来纳州看望亲戚时，那只是通往真正目的地途中的一个停靠站。
We had transformed from people who went away to a family who went on vacation.
我们已经从出差的人变成了度假的一家人。
Our villa was number 317, a two-bedroom apartment with an enclosed back porch that looked out onto a small man-made lake complete with fish, ducks, and another summer word that I learned, "gazebo." My brother chased cicadas and lizards.
我们的别墅位于 317 号，是一套两居室公寓，有一个封闭的后门廊，俯瞰着一个小型人造湖，湖里有鱼、鸭子，还有我学到的另一个夏季单词“凉亭”。我哥哥追蝉和蜥蜴。
For my sister, the only swimmer among my siblings, there was a pool.
我的姐姐是我兄弟姐妹中唯一会游泳的人，这里有一个游泳池。
There were tennis courts and bikes to rent.
有网球场和自行车出租。
The general store even offered a collection of the latest movies on laser disk.
杂货店甚至还提供最新电影的激光光盘。
That first trip, I was eight.
第一次旅行是在我八岁的时候。
As I got older, I moved from the gazebo to the game room and then the gym, trying to meet other kids my age.
随着年龄的增长，我从凉亭搬到游戏室，然后是健身房，试图认识其他同龄的孩子。
My mom busied herself in the kitchen, making lunches, or sat by the lake and watched the ducks.
我妈妈在厨房忙着做午餐，或者坐在湖边看鸭子。
My dad shepherded us through It's a Small World and Epcot Center.
我爸爸带领我们参观了小世界和艾波卡特中心。
Our summers went on like this, pretty much exactly like this, probably until I finished high school.
我们的夏天就这样过去了，几乎一模一样，可能直到我高中毕业。
I honestly loved it.
老实说我很喜欢它。
I looked forward to this trip every year.
每年我都期待着这次旅行。
And even though it was only a week, it was almost always the highlight of my entire summer.
尽管只有一周，但这几乎总是我整个夏天的亮点。
But when I think about it now, it occurs to me my dad pretty much orchestrated this thing that became so important to our lives, and I have no idea whether or not he ever enjoyed it himself.
但现在回想起来，我突然想到，这件事对我们的生活变得如此重要，几乎是我父亲精心策划的，我不知道他自己是否喜欢它。
In fact, it didn't seem like he did.
事实上，他似乎并没有这么做。
I can't recall actually seeing him happy.
我不记得真正看到他高兴过。
Neither does my brother.
我的兄弟也没有。
He says Dad was pretty much the same at the timeshare as he was at home.
他说爸爸在分时度假时的表现与在家时几乎没有什么不同。
Sometimes he'd go for walks alone, but often he just sat on the couch and watched TV.
有时他会独自去散步，但大多数时候他只是坐在沙发上看电视。
I asked my sister.
我问姐姐。
She said he must have been happy, but she doesn't remember witnessing it either.
她说他一定很高兴，但她也不记得亲眼目睹过。
It seems like such a simple question, but I just wanted to know, did he enjoy himself?
这似乎是一个简单的问题，但我只是想知道，他过得开心吗？
At the risk of embodying the most tired trope in all of modern masculinity, I will say my father and I never really got along.
冒着体现所有现代男性气概中最疲惫的比喻的风险，我会说我的父亲和我从来没有真正相处过。
He was strict, his house had a lot of rules, and he believed in corporal punishment.
他很严格，家里有很多规矩，而且他相信体罚。
And the sting of that conflict stayed with me as an adult.
作为一个成年人，这种冲突的刺痛一直伴随着我。
But since my mom passed away last year, I've been trying to connect with him more.
但自从去年我妈妈去世后，我一直在努力与他建立更多的联系。
I gave him a call.
我给他打了电话。
It's about who?
是关于谁的？
Neil Drumming I said, is it a bad time?
尼尔·鼓明 我说，现在是不是很糟糕？
No, no. I was just playing solitaire.
不，不。我只是在玩纸牌。
Yeah.
是的。
I didn't know whether it was the drugstore or not.
不知道是不是药店。
Are you waiting for a call from the drugstore?
您在等待药店的电话吗？
No, they'll call.
不，他们会打电话的。
They'll give me a call no matter when it is.
不管什么时候他们都会给我打电话。
My dad is 83 years old now and living alone in Florida.
我父亲现在 83 岁了，独自住在佛罗里达州。
Talking to him can be awkward and not just because his hearing is going.
和他说话可能会很尴尬，这不仅仅是因为他的听力正在下降。
I asked him point blank if he liked going to the villa.
我直截了当地问他是否愿意去别墅。
He told me that when he was growing up, he barely ever left South Carolina.
他告诉我，在他的成长过程中，他几乎从未离开过南卡罗来纳州。
I didn't know nothing about nothing else.
我对其他事情一无所知。
You saw things in magazines and stuff.
你在杂志之类的东西上看到过东西。
Mhm.
嗯。
Neil's Dad The first time I knew about a dentist, I was in the Army.
尼尔的爸爸 我第一次知道牙医是在军队里。
But I just thought it was a good idea that our kids see something other than their surroundings and where they were born.
但我只是认为让我们的孩子看到他们的周围环境和出生地以外的东西是个好主意。
Yeah.
是的。
My dad grew up poor on a farm, one of 12 children.
我父亲在农场长大，家境贫寒，是 12 个孩子中的一个。
He says he only finished high school because by the time he was old enough, he was the one driving the bus.
他说他只完成了高中学业，因为当他足够大的时候，他就是开公交车的人。
Sometimes when there were athletic events at other schools, he'd get to drive the teams and learn what the nearby towns were like.
有时，当其他学校举办体育赛事时，他会带领球队并了解附近城镇的情况。
In 1953, he was drafted into the Army, which had only recently been integrated.
1953年，他应征入伍，而陆军最近才整编。
They sent him to Colorado and Indiana, and it wasn't great.
他们把他送到了科罗拉多州和印第安纳州，但情况并不好。
He says the Army was really not into black people back then.
他说当时军队真的不喜欢黑人。
So those were his travel experiences when he was young.
这就是他年轻时的旅行经历。
I was hearing a lot of this for the first time, and as it turns out, that's at least partially my own fault.
我第一次听到很多这样的事情，事实证明，这至少部分是我自己的错。
The reason why we never talk about it, because it just wasn't the kind of thing that you guys seemed to be interested in.
我们之所以从不谈论它，是因为这不是你们似乎感兴趣的事情。
Really?
真的吗？
So we just didn't seem like we were interested as kids?
所以我们小时候似乎不感兴趣？
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
Neil Drumming Yeah, I probably wasn't so interested back then, back when the two of us were constantly challenging each other.
Neil Drumming 是的，当时我可能没那么感兴趣，当时我们两个人不断互相挑战。
I was always either afraid of him or angry at him, hiding from him, or planting my feet to confront him.
我总是要么害怕他，要么生他的气，要么躲着他，要么站稳脚跟面对他。
It never crossed my mind to try to understand him.
我从来没有想过尝试去理解他。
But nowadays, my dad feels to me like some kind of living cold case, a million-page brief that is no longer redacted.
但如今，我的父亲对我来说就像是一个悬而未决的案件，一份不再经过编辑的百万页摘要。
Maybe it's because I'm now at the age he was when I was born, but I retroactively find his every decision fascinating, even the ones that aren't so surprising on the surface.
也许是因为我现在已经到了我出生时他的年纪，但回想起来，我发现他的每一个决定都很有趣，即使是那些表面上并不那么令人惊讶的决定。
Why Florida?
为什么是佛罗里达？
Neil's Dad It was advertising.
尼尔的爸爸 这是广告。
You get to hear something about Florida and then this thing, Disney World.
你会听到一些关于佛罗里达州的事情，然后是迪士尼世界。
After we started going, they built Epcot.
我们开始行动后，他们建造了未来世界。
They built Animal Kingdom.
他们建造了动物王国。
Mhm.
嗯。
Neil's Dad And they advertise them a lot.
尼尔的爸爸 他们经常为他们做广告。
Yeah.
是的。
Neil's Dad Not many people were going.
尼尔的爸爸 去的人不多。
We were probably the most vacationing people in our area.
我们可能是我们地区度假最多的人。
Yeah.
是的。
Neil's Dad I don't know of any other family that went on vacation every year.
尼尔的爸爸 我不知道还有哪个家庭每年都去度假。
We did.
我们做到了。
My dad was obviously proud that he'd gotten the timeshare, but pride, strictly speaking, does not constitute joy.
我父亲显然为自己获得了分时度假感到自豪，但严格来说，自豪并不构成快乐。
It didn't answer the question of whether or not he was actually happy spending those summer weeks with us at the villa.
它并没有回答他是否真的很高兴和我们在别墅度过那些暑假的问题。
Instead, he kept trying to make me understand why he brought us there in the first place.
相反，他一直试图让我理解他为什么带我们去那里。
And his explanation, his reasoning reach back to memories and past experiences that not only had I never heard, but that kind of blew my mind.
他的解释、他的推理追溯到我的记忆和过去的经历，这些我不仅从未听说过，而且让我大吃一惊。
I tell you, probably where I got the whole idea-- when we were in school, every summer you had to try to think of something that you could write about when you'd go back to school, because you're going to have to write something about what you did this summer.
我告诉你，大概我的整个想法是从哪里得到的——当我们在学校的时候，每个夏天你都必须尝试想出一些当你回到学校时可以写的东西，因为你必须写一些关于你今年夏天所做的事情。
Well, we never had anything to write about when I was going to school.
嗯，当我上学的时候，我们从来没有什么可写的。
And you didn't think plowing a mule, or picking peaches, or stuff that you had to normally do-- you didn't think that was so exciting to write about.
你不认为用骡子犁地，或者摘桃子，或者你通常必须做的事情——你不认为写这些有那么令人兴奋。
Yeah.
是的。
Neil's Dad So we made up lies about what we did.
尼尔的爸爸所以我们对我们所做的事情编造了谎言。
Well, every summer you guys went on vacation, you could write about something that you did, or saw, or someplace you went.
好吧，每年夏天你们去度假，你们都可以写一些你们做过的事、看到的事情或去过的地方。
Yeah.
是的。
What did you do during the summers?
暑假期间你做了什么？
When, this year?
今年什么时候？
Neil Drumming No, no, when you were in school.
尼尔·鼓明 不，不，当你在学校的时候。
We talked for over an hour.
我们聊了一个多小时。
It was one of the longest conversations that I can remember us ever having.
这是我记忆中我们进行过的最长的谈话之一。
Every now and then, I'd try to steer him back to the question I wanted him to answer.
我时不时地试图引导他回到我想让他回答的问题上。
So I know I asked you this a bunch of times.
所以我知道我已经问过你很多次了。
I keep asking you the same question.
我一直在问你同样的问题。
You can tell me to stop asking you if you want, but did you have fun yourself?
你可以告诉我不要再问你是否愿意，但你自己玩得开心吗？
Yeah.
是的。
See, I don't regret anything because it looked to me like I was doing what I was supposed to do.
看，我不后悔任何事情，因为在我看来，我正在做我应该做的事情。
And to see you kids happy was to be happy too.
看到你们孩子快乐，我也感到快乐。
And you guys could always come in and do whatever it is, and go back out to the pool or whatever.
你们总是可以进来做任何事，然后回到游泳池或其他什么地方。
Mhm.
嗯。
Neil's Dad I remember you guys playing out there and hanging around the bushes and stuff.
尼尔的爸爸，我记得你们在外面玩耍，在灌木丛之类的地方闲逛。
[LAUGHS] Neil's Dad I thought it was great.
[笑]尼尔的爸爸，我觉得这很棒。
That's a kind of enjoyment I hadn't considered.
那是一种我没有想到的享受。
I live more selfishly.
我活得比较自私。
Also, his answer was hard to take in, to reconcile with the distance I felt between us at the time, back when he would retire to the couch to watch TV or we went off to play on our own.
而且，他的回答很难接受，与我当时感受到的我们之间的距离相协调，当时他会躺在沙发上看电视，或者我们自己去玩。
Maybe he was watching me play in the bushes and getting a kick out of it, but I didn't know that.
也许他正在看我在灌木丛中玩耍并从中获得乐趣，但我不知道。
Still, I was happy at the villa, and my dad says he was too.
尽管如此，我在别墅里还是很开心，我爸爸说他也是。
I'm glad I know that.
我很高兴我知道这一点。
All right.
好的。
So I have been talking to you for an hour.
所以我已经和你聊了一个小时了。
I should probably let you go.
我也许应该让你走。
But hey, is it OK if I call back this week and just talk?
但是，嘿，我这周再打电话聊聊可以吗？
I want to hear more stuff since I didn't seem interested when I was a kid.
我想听更多的东西，因为我小时候似乎不感兴趣。
I didn't realize that was why you didn't tell us stuff.
我没有意识到这就是你不告诉我们事情的原因。
So now I'll just ask.
所以现在我就问一下。
Is that OK if I could--
如果我可以的话可以吗——
The only thing I'd do is get up, and sometimes I'm outside just walking around.
我唯一要做的就是起床，有时我会在外面走走。
Sometimes I sit down.
有时我会坐下来。
Sometimes I go ride the bike.
有时我去骑自行车。
And I do this just to keep busy.
我这样做只是为了保持忙碌。
Yeah.
是的。
Neil's Dad You can call me anytime.
尼尔的爸爸 你可以随时给我打电话。
All right.
好的。
I'm going to go back to work.
我要回去工作了。
Bye.
再见。
Ira Glass Neil Drumming.
艾拉·格拉斯·尼尔打鼓。
He says his dad, who's 87, is emphatically not freaked out over COVID-19.
他说他 87 岁的父亲显然并没有被 COVID-19 吓坏。
We'd like to ask you this question, my friend.
我的朋友，我们想问你这个问题。
Do personal problems and worries have you down?
个人问题和忧虑是否让您感到沮丧？
Are you disturbed by business problems, marriage problems, or emotional problems?
您是否因事业问题、婚姻问题或情感问题而困扰？
See Mrs. K, reader and advisor.
参见读者兼顾问 K 女士。
Mrs. K, formerly of Europe, gives you a reading and answers all your questions for just $1.00.
K 女士以前来自欧洲，只需 1 美元即可为您提供阅读材料并回答您的所有问题。
And you'll feel much better.
你会感觉好多了。
OK.
好的。
So this is my father in 1956, three years before I was born.
这是 1956 年我的父亲，也就是我出生前三年。
He's 23 years old in this recording.
这段录音中他 23 岁。
And it's amazing, to me, anyway, hearing him so young, doing something I know so well, trying to sound like you're just talking, totally relaxed, when, in fact, you're reading.
无论如何，对我来说，听到他如此年轻，做我熟悉的事情，试图听起来像是你只是在说话，完全放松，而实际上你正在阅读，这真是太神奇了。
And coming up right now, news about a wonderful appliance from Norman R.
现在即将推出有关 Norman R. 的一款出色设备的新闻。
Mitchell just for the homemakers, as we said before.
正如我们之前所说，米切尔只是为了家庭主妇。
We're talking about an electric dryer.
我们正在谈论电动烘干机。
And, my friend--
而且，我的朋友——
My father started in radio when he was 19, the same age I was when I started.
我父亲 19 岁时就开始从事广播事业，我也是同龄开始从事广播事业。
He began at the college station at the University of Maryland, then after graduation he got a job spinning records at a commercial station in Baltimore.
他从马里兰大学的学院站开始，毕业后在巴尔的摩的一家商业站找到了一份转唱片的工作。
He loved it.
他喜欢它。
He continued doing this on Sunday mornings while he was in the Army, stationed in Virginia.
当他在弗吉尼亚州服役时，他在周日早上继续这样做。
That's where this recording is from.
这就是这段录音的出处。
And at some point my mom got pregnant a second time with me, and he decided to quit radio.
在某个时候，我妈妈第二次怀了我，他决定退出电台。
It just didn't pay enough.
只是还没有付出足够的代价。
The most he ever made at a radio job was $90 a week, which wasn't much money even then.
他在电台工作中挣到的最高工资是每周 90 美元，即使在当时这也不算多少钱。
And at that point he became the person that I knew him as, a certified public accountant.
从那时起，他就成了我所认识的那个人，一名注册会计师。
Years ago, I called him for a story for our show to ask about that decision to leave radio, and it was interesting.
几年前，我打电话给他，为我们的节目写一个故事，询问有关离开电台的决定，这很有趣。
There was no sentimentality at all, like nothing.
没有任何感伤，就像什么都没有一样。
By that time, I had realized that radio was not for me.
到那时，我意识到广播不适合我。
What happened would be a new program director would come in, and if you weren't the apple of that guy's eye then you were out of a job.
发生的情况是，新的项目总监上任，如果你不是那个人的掌上明珠，那么你就会失业。
You got to go start looking for a job again.
你得重新开始找工作了。
Even though that never happened to me, I could see it happening to other people.
尽管这从未发生在我身上，但我可以看到它发生在其他人身上。
And I wanted to be in control of my own destiny, and I decided that it wasn't going to work out.
我想掌控自己的命运，但我决定这不会成功。
Radio was not going to work out.
无线电是行不通的。
It sounds like they are.
听起来确实如此。
Ira's Dad No, they're not.
艾拉的爸爸 不，他们不是。
No, they're not.
不，他们不是。
I don't know if he wants to take me out of the equation, so I don't feel bad for him quitting radio, but I don't believe him.
我不知道他是否想把我排除在外，所以我并不为他退出电台感到难过，但我不相信他。
I do believe that, even in his private moments, today he doesn't regret the decision.
我确实相信，即使在他私人的时刻，他今天也不会后悔这个决定。
His hearing is so bad these days, even with hearing aids, I doubt that he'll hear this story on the radio or online.
这些天他的听力很差，即使戴着助听器，我怀疑他会在广播或网上听到这个故事。
I talked to him a couple times this week.
这周我和他谈过几次话。
He turns 87 on Monday, so part of the population in greatest danger right now.
周一他将迎来 87 岁生日，因此他的一部分人目前正处于最危险的境地。
He said he and my stepmom aren't going out.
他说他和我继母不会出去。
They just figured out how to get groceries delivered.
他们刚刚想出了如何运送杂货。
And I'm worried for them.
我为他们担心。
Well, all the stars are on record, and all the records star on the Sunday morning carousel.
嗯，所有的明星都在记录中，所有的记录明星都在周日早上的轮播中。
Coming up for you right now, our featured top tune of the day, number one in the record stores we visited this week in Baltimore.
现在就为您带来我们当天的精选热门歌曲，它是我们本周在巴尔的摩参观的唱片店中排名第一的歌曲。
Our program was produced today by Diane Wu.
我们今天的节目是由 Diane Wu 制作的。
Our staff includes Emanuele Berry, Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Noor Gill, Lina Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker.
我们的员工包括 Emanuele Berry、Susan Burton、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Noor Gill、Lina Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Julie Whitaker。
Our executive editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的执行编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Special thanks today to Tony [?
今天特别感谢托尼[？
Lynn, ?] John [?
林恩，？]约翰[？
Elgin, ?] Danielle Elliott, and Chris Crawford.
埃尔金，？]丹妮尔·埃利奥特和克里斯·克劳福德。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
Trying to be civic-minded and conserve on toilet paper, he tried out a bidet for the first time this week.
为了体现公民意识并节省卫生纸，他本周首次尝试了坐浴盆。
I was like, oh, well, this isn't really exactly what I wanted.
我当时想，哦，好吧，这并不完全是我想要的。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。