696: Low Hum of Menace - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #696 | March 13, 2020 696: Low Hum of Menace Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 696 集 | 2020 年 3 月 13 日 696：威胁的低声注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass I got my teeth cleaned this week, and I was asking the hygienist how it was going with the global pandemic and all.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 这周我洗了牙，我问卫生员全球大流行病的情况怎么样。
And she was like, just yesterday somebody stole two face masks from the counter right there.
她就像，就在昨天，有人从柜台偷了两个口罩。
And so I was like, do you know who?
所以我就想，你知道是谁吗？
And she was like, yeah, she knew exactly who, because she caught her red handed, and the woman wasn't sorry at all-- wouldn't give the masks back.
她说，是的，她知道是谁，因为她当场抓住了她，而那个女人一点也不后悔——不会归还口罩。
I mean, there's a national shortage, but still.
我的意思是，全国范围内仍然存在短缺。
I heard about this woman, Kim, who decided a couple weeks ago to buy some face masks for her mom.
我听说过这位名叫金的女士，她几周前决定为她妈妈买一些口罩。
Her mom works at a home caring for the elderly, and face masks are recommended for people like her mom.
她的妈妈在一家照顾老人的家庭工作，建议像她妈妈这样的人佩戴口罩。
Kim went shopping for some.
金去买了一些。
CVS-- sold out.
CVS——已售完。
Rite Aid-- sold out.
Rite Aid——已售完。
Target-- sold out.
目标——售完。
She called pharmacies around town in northern California, where she lives.
她给自己居住的加利福尼亚州北部城镇周围的药店打电话。
No luck, until she reached this one woman.
运气不好，直到她遇到了这个女人。
She said they were sold out, and then she paused for a second.
她说已经卖完了，然后她停顿了一下。
And then she said, well, I have a stash at home.
然后她说，好吧，我家里有一个藏品。
I might be able to sell you some masks.
我也许可以卖给你一些口罩。
Let me call you after work.
下班后我给你打电话。
Wait, and so suddenly it's like you're doing an illegal drug deal or something over a mask?
等等，突然间你就像在进行非法毒品交易或戴着面具做些什么？
Kind of felt that way.
有点这样的感觉。
So I called her after work.
于是我下班后给她打了电话。
We set up a time and place, and we met the following day in front of the Safeway, next to the Glacier water bottle vending machine.
我们约定了时间和地点，第二天在 Safeway 门前、冰川水瓶自动售货机旁边见面。
Wait, that's what she said?
等等，她是这么说的？
She said, OK, we're going to meet in front of this Safeway in front of the Glacier bottle vending machine?
她说，好吧，我们要在 Glacier 瓶子自动售货机前的 Safeway 门口见面吗？
Yes.
是的。
I found her easily, gave her the cash, got the box, said thank you--
我很容易就找到了她，给了她现金，拿到了盒子，说了声谢谢——
Now, describe the actual physical transaction.
现在，描述实际的物理交易。
Now, when you handed her the cash, was it a kind of like your hand was over top of the cash so someone else couldn't see it, and she palmed it away from you.
现在，当你把现金递给她时，是不是有点像你的手放在现金上面，这样别人就看不到它，然后她就把它从你手中夺走了。
Pretty much, yeah.
差不多，是的。
Ira Glass The woman asked for $100 for 10 masks.
Ira Glass 这位女士要价 100 美元买 10 个口罩。
Kim talked her down to $70.
Kim 说服她把价格降到 70 美元。
Regular price would be $1 per mask, maybe $2.
每个面具的正常价格是 1 美元，也许是 2 美元。
And she told me that she had two boxes left.
她告诉我她还剩下两盒。
So if I wanted more, I could come back.
所以如果我想要更多，我可以回来。
I work at a local co-op here in Seattle, Washington called PCC Community Markets, just a little bit different clientele.
我在华盛顿州西雅图的一家当地合作社工作，名为 PCC Community Markets，只是客户群略有不同。
They're kind of like a Whole Foods clientele, a little more particular.
他们有点像全食超市的顾客，但更挑剔一些。
Cameron works in the produce department, and he's a cashier.
卡梅伦在生产部门工作，是一名收银员。
Washington state, you may know, has more cases than any other state, and most of them are around Seattle.
您可能知道，华盛顿州的病例比任何其他州都多，其中大多数位于西雅图附近。
So the co-op started selling out of toilet paper, beans, flour, hand sanitizer when this first hit the news.
因此，当这件事第一次出现在新闻中时，合作社就开始销售卫生纸、豆子、面粉和洗手液。
It's been pretty tense, very just on edge.
气氛非常紧张，非常紧张。
A lot of people are upset that we don't have hand sanitizer wipes for our carts.
很多人对我们的购物车没有消毒湿巾感到不安。
I've had a few customers vocally yell at me because of how I was touching their cans when I was checking them out at the register.
有一些顾客因为我在收银台结账时触摸他们的罐头而大声对我大喊大叫。
Like this one guy, who had a lot of cans.
就像这个人，他有很多罐头。
It was a kombucha energy drink.
这是一种康普茶能量饮料。
I can't remember the exact brand.
我记不清具体的品牌了。
He probably had a couple dozen.
他可能有几十个。
Some of them had fallen over, and I'd grabbed the top of the can versus the bottom of the can when scanning it, which, I mean, I can understand.
其中一些已经翻倒了，扫描时我抓住了罐子的顶部和底部，我的意思是，我可以理解。
But at the same time, I probably wasn't the first person to touch that can, so.
但与此同时，我可能不是第一个接触那个罐头的人，所以。
What did they say to you?
他们对你说了什么？
Cameron He just wanted me to be aware of what I was doing.
卡梅伦 他只是想让我知道我在做什么。
It took me a minute to understand what he was saying, because he was so frustrated.
我花了一分钟才明白他在说什么，因为他非常沮丧。
I don't remember the exact words, but paraphrasing he was asking me in a pretty passive aggressive way why I'm touching the cans the way I am.
我不记得确切的话了，但转述一下，他以一种相当被动、咄咄逼人的方式问我为什么我要这样碰罐子。
Somehow that's exactly what I would have pictured.
不知何故，这正是我所想象的。
I'm picturing sort of Fred Armisen in Portlandia.
我想象着弗莱德·阿米森在波特兰迪亚的情景。
You're so spot on it's gross right now.
你现在太清楚了，这太恶心了。
[LAUGHS] He was wearing glasses, for sure, and some sort of fleece.
[笑]他确实戴着眼镜，还穿着某种羊毛衫。
But he was just telling me how I need to be touching the cans without touching the tops, and yeah.
但他只是告诉我我需要如何触摸罐头而不触摸顶部，是的。
Some people have more to fear than others right now, I think, like Jasmine Reese.
我认为，有些人现在比其他人更值得恐惧，比如茉莉花·里斯。
She works at Los Angeles airport, LAX, cleaning out planes after they land, including international flights.
她在洛杉矶国际机场工作，负责飞机降落后的清理工作，包括国际航班。
Coronavirus became a very real thing to her over a month ago when a plane arrived from Hong Kong.
一个多月前，当一架飞机从香港抵达时，冠状病毒对她来说变得非常真实。
Even as I'm getting on the plane, and I see first class, business, I'm walking down.
当我登上飞机，看到头等舱、商务舱时，我就走下来了。
And I'm seeing co-workers with face masks, and I'm like, what's going on?
我看到同事戴着口罩，我就想，这是怎么回事？
Why does everybody have a face mask?
为什么每个人都戴着口罩？
They're like, oh, because there's a virus.
他们就像，哦，因为有病毒。
There's a virus, and you have to clean this plane.
有病毒，你必须清理这架飞机。
This is one of the planes that, you know, this is Hong Kong.
这是其中一架飞机，你知道，这是香港。
And I'm like, oh, let me go downstairs and go get me one, because keep in mind that I'm five months pregnant.
我想，哦，让我下楼去买一个，因为记住我已经怀孕五个月了。
And did they have face masks?
他们有口罩吗？
Were you able to get one?
你能得到一个吗？
Yeah, but we don't have them every day, and we work every day, but we're kind of low on supply, so meaning that we may not have face masks every day.
是的，但我们并不是每天都有口罩，而且我们每天都在工作，但供应量有点少，所以这意味着我们可能不会每天都有口罩。
We may not have gloves every day.
我们可能没有每天都戴手套。
There have been days since the virus when you went in, and you had to clean a plane without a mask?
自从病毒爆发以来已经好几天了，你还要在不戴口罩的情况下清洁飞机？
Yeah, there's plenty.
是的，有很多。
There's plenty of days that we get on there and we don't have no mask.
我们在那里待了很多天，但我们没有口罩。
We're cleaning.
我们正在打扫。
Sometimes we get on there.
有时我们会去那里。
We don't have masks and gloves.
我们没有口罩和手套。
One job the crew does-- they reach deep into garbage bags on the plane and pull out the garbage by hand.
机组人员所做的一项工作是，他们把手伸进飞机上的垃圾袋，用手拉出垃圾。
Jasmine cleans American Airlines planes.
茉莉花清洁美国航空公司的飞机。
She works for a contractor called Jetstream Ground Services.
她为一家名为 Jetstream Ground Services 的承包商工作。
A number of Jetstream employees have been quoted in the press saying the same thing about gloves and masks that Jasmine says.
媒体援引一些 Jetstream 员工关于手套和口罩的说法与 Jasmine 的说法相同。
We reached out to a spokesperson for the company, Eric Rose.
我们联系了该公司的发言人埃里克·罗斯。
He said in emails, quote, "we are at a loss as to why the employees are making these false claims." Jetstream Ground Services has always had an abundant supply of safety equipment for all employees to fulfill their daily assignments." End quote.
他在电子邮件中表示，“我们不明白为什么员工会提出这些虚假声明。”捷流地面服务公司始终为所有员工提供充足的安全设备，以完成日常任务。”引用结束。
Just this week, the Service Employees International Union started distributing masks and gloves to workers like Jasmine in LAX, saying Jetstream has not properly provided them.
就在本周，服务业雇员国际工会开始向洛杉矶国际机场的 Jasmine 等工人分发口罩和手套，称 Jetstream 没有妥善提供这些物品。
The day I talked to Jasmine, two people who work at LAX had at that point tested positive with the virus.
在我与 Jasmine 交谈的那天，洛杉矶国际机场的两名工作人员当时的病毒检测呈阳性。
Jasmine thought one of them worked at terminal seven.
贾斯敏以为他们中的一个人在七号航站楼工作。
So we have a person all the way down at seven that got sick, and then now they're saying a person, I think, from terminal five was sick.
所以我们有一个人在七点就生病了，然后现在他们说我认为来自五号航站楼的一个人生病了。
We're at four.
我们四点了。
Damn.
该死的。
Jasmine Reese So we're right next to a person that could have possibly came to the food court at our terminal, you just never know.
Jasmine Reese 所以，我们旁边的一个人可能会来到我们航站楼的美食广场，但你永远不知道。
Do you feel like it's only a matter of time before somebody you work with gets sick?
您是否觉得与您一起工作的人生病只是时间问题？
Yeah, it's how it's going, and it's on the news, and it's spreading so wide.
是的，事情就是这样，而且上了新闻，而且传播得如此之广。
I wouldn't be surprised if someone-- if the news popped up and said somebody is sick within the next week or two.
如果有人——如果新闻突然出现并说有人在接下来的一两周内生病了，我不会感到惊讶。
I could be walking around with a co-worker right now, and they probably have it.
我现在可以和同事一起散步，他们可能有它。
You don't know that they have it.
你不知道他们有它。
So when you're cleaning planes, is this what you're thinking about all the time?
那么，当您清洁飞机时，您是否一直在考虑这个问题？
If it's internationally, yes.
如果是国际的话，可以。
I'm thinking, why do you have clean this plane?
我在想，你为什么要清理这架飞机？
And I'm trying not to stress on it too hard.
我尽量不给它太大压力。
And I can't totally tell.
我也不能完全说清楚。
How worried are you?
你有多担心？
Truth-- I'm very worried, but I've still got to work and get my money.
说实话——我很担心，但我仍然必须工作并赚钱。
I have to survive, yes, but I am very worried about it, certainly because I am pregnant.
我必须生存，是的，但我非常担心，当然是因为我怀孕了。
Right now as I'm saying these words to you, dozens of people have already died in our country, but somehow it still feels like the calm before the storm.
现在，当我对你们说这些话时，我们国家已经有数十人死亡，但不知何故，仍然感觉像是暴风雨前的平静。
For now, it's like streets are a little emptier, store shelves are emptier.
现在，街道变得有点空了，商店的货架也空了一些。
Some people are working from home.
有些人在家工作。
Some schools close.
一些学校关闭。
Other schools-- everybody's waiting to hear if they're going to be called off.
其他学校——每个人都在等待是否会被取消。
Things are not as awful as they're certainly going to get, so we're all waiting for it to get awful, with no idea of how awful that's going to be.
事情并没有想象中那么糟糕，所以我们都在等待事情变得更糟糕，但不知道会变得多么糟糕。
If I had to say what this feels like, I think to me what this feels like is-- I don't know-- the only experience I've ever had like this is sort of like waiting for medical results, trying to find out how bad things are going to be, but on a global scale.
如果我不得不说这是什么感觉，我想对我来说这是什么感觉——我不知道——我有过的唯一这样的经历有点像等待医疗结果，试图找出事情会变得多么糟糕，但在全球范围内。
We're going to be documenting more about coronavirus in upcoming shows, but for today's show, we thought we would stick to this one part of things, this low hum of menace.
我们将在即将到来的节目中记录更多有关冠状病毒的信息，但对于今天的节目，我们认为我们会坚持这一部分，即这种低沉的威胁嗡嗡声。
Here in our staff we were talking about when else does somebody actually feel that feeling?
在我们的员工中，我们正在谈论什么时候有人真正感受到这种感觉？
And we found some examples of that to share with you, and that's going to be our show today.
我们找到了一些例子与大家分享，这就是我们今天的节目。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Do You Hear What I Hear?
第一幕：你听到我听到的吗？
Ira Glass Act One-- Do You Hear What I Hear?
艾拉·格拉斯第一幕——你听到我听到的吗？
So this first story is about a recording that captures this exact thing today's program is about, that low hum of menace.
所以第一个故事是关于一段录音，它准确地捕捉到了今天节目的主题，即威胁的低沉嗡嗡声。
The recording was made secretly by a woman trying to catch a man who'd been harassing her.
这段录音是一名女子为了抓捕一名骚扰她的男子而秘密录制的。
Heads up to listeners, this story is about sexual harassment, so there's some sexual content to this.
请听众注意，这个故事是关于性骚扰的，所以其中有一些色情内容。
One thing I have to say that's interesting about this recording and the man's behavior in it is how understated it is.
我不得不说，这段录音和其中男人的行为的有趣之处在于它是多么低调。
He doesn't raise his voice.
他没有提高声音。
He doesn't overtly threaten, but he just gets his point across.
他没有公开威胁，但他只是表达了自己的观点。
Also interesting, the woman who made the recording-- her name is Khristen Sellers.
同样有趣的是，录制这段录音的女士——她的名字是克里斯汀·塞勒斯。
Years later, today, when she hears this recording, she hears it very differently than she did at the time.
多年后的今天，当她听到这段录音时，她听到的声音与当时截然不同。
It raises a whole set of questions she didn't think about much back then.
这提出了一系列她当时没有考虑太多的问题。
Reporter Jessica Lussenhop met Khristen years ago putting together a story for the BBC.
记者杰西卡·卢森霍普 (Jessica Lussenhop) 几年前遇见了克里斯汀 (Khristen)，为 BBC 撰写了一篇报道。
Here's Jessica.
这是杰西卡。
The recording is just 10 minutes long.
录音只有10分钟长。
The man Khristen was trying to record was her home inspector.
克里斯汀试图记录的那个人是她的房屋检查员。
This is back in 2012.
这还要追溯到2012年。
At the time, she didn't have a cell phone, so she borrowed one from her friend.
当时她没有手机，所以她向朋友借了一部。
Can you just sort of explain how you made this recording in the first place?
你能解释一下你最初是如何录制这段录音的吗？
OK.
好的。
I had on some around the house cleanup clothing, like baggy clothing.
我穿着一些房屋清洁服，比如宽松的衣服。
So I had a phone, and I took the phone, and I put it in my shirt.
所以我有一部电话，我拿起电话，把它放在我的衬衫里。
Put it in, I think, it was my bra strap or something, sitting some type of way odd.
把它放进去，我想，那是我的胸罩带子什么的，坐起来有点奇怪。
Because of the phone under the shirt secured by a bra strap, the recording is hard to hear.
由于手机放在衬衫下并用胸罩带固定，因此很难听到录音。
Hiding the phone there, Khristen's nervous.
克里斯汀把手机藏在那里，她很紧张。
She gives herself a task-- raking the yard-- as she waits for Eric Pender to pull up.
在等待埃里克·彭德停车时，她给自己布置了一项任务——清扫院子。
He is who she wants to record.
他就是她想要记录的人。
She's kind of afraid of him, but she's focused on all the things anyone making this kind of recording might be.
她有点害怕他，但她专注于制作这种录音的人可能会做的所有事情。
She wants to stay calm, not look suspicious, act natural.
她想要保持冷静，不要显得可疑，表现得自然。
And most importantly, she wants to get audio of Eric Pender harassing her so she has undeniable proof.
最重要的是，她想获得埃里克·彭德骚扰她的音频，这样她就有无可否认的证据。
Eric Pender's red truck pulls up and parks on the street.
埃里克·彭德的红色卡车停下来停在街上。
There was a long driveway.
有一条很长的车道。
So I'm in a wooded area, ain't no whole bunch of houses near me or nothing, and he was walking up.
所以我在一个树木繁茂的地区，附近没有一大堆房子，什么也没有，而他正在向上走。
But I was still raking, doing both.
但我仍然在耙，两者都做。
And he was coming up towards me, and I was kind of trying to turn the other way.
他朝我走来，我正试图转身。
That's when he kind of got real close, and he was like, I'm--
就在那时他真的很接近，他说，我——
You know, Ms. Sellers, you need to be careful of who you talk to.
塞勒斯女士，您知道，您需要小心与谁交谈。
I'm not worried about me.
我不担心我。
Be careful who you talk to.
小心你和谁说话。
I'm not worried about me.
我不担心我。
Just somebody you think that you can trust, and I'm just letting you know you probably can't trust them.
只是您认为可以信任的人，而我只是让您知道您可能无法信任他们。
But if there's somebody you think you can trust, then I'm just letting you know you probably can't trust them.
但如果你认为有人可以信任，那么我只是让你知道你可能无法信任他们。
He basically was saying I need to watch what I'm saying to people and how I'm talking to them, and I'm like, what am I saying to people?
他基本上是说我需要注意我对人们说的话以及我如何与他们交谈，我想，我在对人们说什么？
I'm trying to put the face on of I'm not saying nothing to nobody.
我试图表现出我不会对任何人说什么。
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
Probably like how me and her is right now.
大概就像我和她现在的样子吧。
My producer, Robyn-- she's about two feet away.
我的制片人罗宾——她距离我们大约两英尺。
This recording is the fourth time Khristen had spoken to Eric Pender ever.
这段录音是克里斯汀第四次与埃里克·彭德交谈。
All right, I already know how people use lies.
好吧，我已经知道人们如何利用谎言了。
I ain't-- look, you need to-- look, if you think-- [INAUDIBLE].
我不是——看，你需要——看，如果你认为——[听不清]。
I'm super nervous, and nothing-- I'm so nervous at that point I was shaking, and I couldn't believe he didn't see it.
我非常紧张，什么也没有——我当时非常紧张，浑身发抖，我不敢相信他没有看到。
It was like a tremble in me that I just was trying to hold on to the rake as hard as I could so that he wouldn't see the tremble in me.
就像我在颤抖一样，我只是尽力抓住耙子，这样他就看不到我在颤抖。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
I really was like down to the rake, down to the rake.
我真的很喜欢下耙子，下耙子。
It was like, if I was somebody else, the way I was raking in the same spot, I would have been like, what is she doing?
就像，如果我是其他人，当我在同一个地方耙地时，我会想，她在做什么？
But I was still in the same spot because I was scared to move.
但我仍然在同一个地方，因为我不敢动。
I was just nervous.
我只是很紧张。
The house Eric Pender was coming to inspect wasn't Khristen's yet.
埃里克·彭德要来视察的房子还不是克里斯汀的。
It was a house she was hoping to move into with her three kids.
她希望和她的三个孩子一起搬进这所房子。
The only thing she needed to move in was his signature on a form.
她搬进去唯一需要做的就是他在表格上签名。
She needs this house.
她需要这个房子。
Just two weeks earlier, Khristen was staying at her mom's, just home from a prison stint.
就在两周前，克里斯汀刚出狱回家，住在她妈妈家。
She served six months for a probation violation.
她因违反缓刑规定而入狱六个月。
She was looking for a house for her and her kids.
她正在为她和她的孩子们寻找房子。
If you needed a Section 8 voucher in Laurinburg, a small town in a rural area of North Carolina, one of the only places to go was a nonprofit called Four-County Community Services.
如果您在北卡罗来纳州农村地区的小镇劳林堡需要第 8 条优惠券，唯一可以去的地方之一是一家名为四县社区服务的非营利组织。
The problem was the only house they were willing to give her was a house no one else seemed to want.
问题是他们唯一愿意给她的房子是一栋其他人似乎都不想要的房子。
Khristen was like, OK.
克里斯汀说，好吧。
I'm not picky.
我不挑剔。
They had a house, and they said that house in particular was abandoned.
他们有一栋房子，他们说那栋房子特别被遗弃了。
And if I was to clean that house out, that I would go ahead and be able to move in the house, and wouldn't have to pay a deposit.
如果我要清理那栋房子，我就可以搬进去，而且不需要支付押金。
They actually called the landlord, and they will pay the first month's rent.
他们居然给房东打电话，他们会付第一个月的房租。
I think that's how it went, yeah.
我想事情就是这样进行的，是的。
So if she cleaned the house, it'd be hers, but cleaning the house, she'd come to learn, was a big project.
因此，如果她打扫了房子，它就是她的了，但她逐渐了解到，打扫房子是一项大工程。
It was a three bedroom house with a dining room and den, and all the rooms were filled with junk.
那是一栋三居室的房子，有餐厅和书房，所有的房间都堆满了垃圾。
It smelled awful.
味道很难闻。
There were roaches, lots of poop.
有蟑螂，有很多粪便。
The neighbors had told me that's why it was so many feces and stuff in the house, because they had left the dog.
邻居告诉我，这就是为什么房子里有这么多粪便和东西，因为他们把狗留下了。
And then finally, I guess, the dog either died or left, and they got it out.
最后，我猜，那只狗要么死了，要么离开了，他们把它救了出来。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But by the time I got there, I just was there with the leftover-- the house being full of clothing and food in the cabinets.
但当我到达那里时，我只是带着剩下的东西在那里——房子里的柜子里装满了衣服和食物。
It was all this stuff.
都是这些东西。
It was just horrible.
太可怕了。
She cleaned and cleaned.
她打扫又打扫。
She had a list of tasks that she'd been given from the nonprofit.
她有一份非营利组织交给她的任务清单。
It took weeks, like maybe two weeks or so, three weeks, maybe even more than that.
这花了几周的时间，可能两周左右，三周，甚至可能更长。
I can't even really remember remember.
我什至记不清了。
I just remember going a lot of times doing it.
我只记得我去过很多次。
Well, I called down there, and they sent the inspector out.
嗯，我打电话到了那里，他们派了检查员出去。
I thought I had everything done that was my duty to do.
我以为我已经完成了我职责范围内的所有事情。
Eric Pender showed up.
埃里克·彭德出现了。
He was the housing inspector for Four-County.
他是四县的住房检查员。
He's a tall man, older, light skinned black man with a taste for cowboy boots and belts, khakis.
他是个高个子、年纪较大、肤色浅的黑人，喜欢牛仔靴和腰带、卡其裤。
Pender was there to review Khristen's work.
彭德在那里审查克里斯汀的工作。
If she passed his inspection, she'd get approved to move in.
如果她通过了他的检查，她就会获准搬进来。
Anyway, he was like, you need to have a man to help you.
不管怎样，他说，你需要一个男人来帮助你。
Why you don't have a boyfriend?
你为什么没有男朋友？
And all this.
还有这一切。
And I'm like, I don't have one because I'm just coming out from prison.
我想，我没有，因为我刚从监狱出来。
I'm trying to get on my feet for my kids.
我正在努力为我的孩子们站起来。
I'm trying to explain to him, and he was like, but if you had a man here, a man could get this stuff done.
我试图向他解释，他说，但是如果这里有一个人，一个人就可以完成这件事。
And I'm like, I did it.
我想，我做到了。
What are you asking me to do?
你要我做什么？
This talk of men quickly turned explicit.
这种关于男人的谈话很快就变得直白起来。
Khristen said he asked her about her sex life, if she performed oral sex before.
克里斯汀说，他询问她的性生活情况，以及她以前是否进行过口交。
And I was like, what?
我当时想，什么？
I was totally thrown.
我彻底崩溃了。
And he was like, because you have had men to take you out to dinner and stuff.
他说，因为有人带你出去吃饭之类的。
And then I had told him, yeah, I have.
然后我告诉他，是的，我有。
And he was like, well, you having people take you out to dinner.
他说，好吧，有人带你出去吃饭。
That's what they were paying you for.
这就是他们付钱给你的原因。
They were paying you for sex.
他们付钱给你做性。
He said, let's say your rent's $600 times 12 months.
他说，假设你的租金是 600 美元乘以 12 个月。
Her rent was $600 a month.
她的房租是每月 600 美元。
So to be clear, he was laying out her exact situation.
需要明确的是，他正在陈述她的确切情况。
He proposed sex with him as a kind of home insurance policy that Pender valued at over a year's worth of rent.
他提议与他发生性关系作为一种家庭保险，彭德的价值超过一年的租金。
And he was like, that's way over $6,000.
他说，这已经超过 6,000 美元了。
My signature is over $6,000.
我的签名价值超过 6,000 美元。
So you'll be having sex for-- basically, he mapped it out just like that.
所以你会发生性行为——基本上，他就是这样规划的。
Did he even acknowledge that you had cleaned the whole house?
他甚至承认你已经打扫了整个房子吗？
He didn't.
他没有。
He didn't want to.
他不想。
He wanted to let me know that I still had stuff to do.
他想让我知道我还有事情要做。
I'm stuck, because I know I'm in here with this man.
我被困住了，因为我知道我和这个男人在一起。
And I'm like, he can sign this paper, and he can not sign this paper.
我想，他可以签署这份文件，他也不能签署这份文件。
He can say whatever, and my word against him is what?
他可以说什么，而我反对他的话是什么？
So at this time, I'm like, what do I do?
那么这个时候我就想，我该怎么办呢？
I just don't know.
我只是不知道。
So I just knew to try to keep a distance between me and him as much as I could.
所以我只知道尽量与他保持距离。
Pender toured the house with Khristen following behind him.
彭德参观了房子，克里斯汀跟在他身后。
He starts pointing to stuff that wasn't Khristen's responsibility to clean up, that wasn't on the list that the nonprofit gave her-- broken mirrors, a broken toilet.
他开始指出那些不是克里斯汀负责清理的东西，这些东西不在非营利组织给她的清单上——破碎的镜子、坏掉的马桶。
That's where he was telling me the toilet needed fixing, and he kind of pulled me by the hip in the bathroom.
那是他告诉我厕所需要修理的地方，他在浴室里抓住了我的臀部。
And he pulled himself out in front of me.
然后他把自己拉到我面前。
Wait, what?
等等，什么？
Khristen Sellers Yeah, he pulled himself out, and I looked down.
克里斯汀·塞勒斯 是的，他退出了，我低下头。
And I looked up, and I kind of like-- I need to get out-- find a way out.
我抬起头，我有点想——我需要出去——找到一条出路。
So I kind of got out of the bathroom.
于是我就从浴室里出来了。
And he's blocking you.
而且他正在阻止你。
He's in the bathroom door.
他在浴室门口。
Yeah, he's blocking me.
是的，他挡住了我。
Jessica Lussenhop And you're in the bathroom and can't get out.
杰西卡·卢森霍普：你在浴室里出不去。
Mhm, yeah.
嗯，是的。
Jessica Lussenhop And he exposes himself to you.
杰西卡·卢森霍普 他向你暴露了自己。
Definitely.
绝对是。
And he was like, you know what to do.
他说，你知道该怎么做。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
You know if you want this house, you know what you got to do.
你知道如果你想要这所房子，你就知道你必须做什么。
That's what he was saying at that point.
这就是他当时所说的。
She says the only thing she was sure of was that there was no way she was going to do what he wanted ever.
她说她唯一确定的是她永远不会做他想做的事。
She managed to push past him, gets him to leave.
她设法推开他，让他离开。
He doesn't sign the form.
他没有在表格上签名。
It was overwhelming.
这是压倒性的。
I broke down, because I felt like, when you're in situations like I was in, you feel kind of like you've got low self-esteem already.
我崩溃了，因为我觉得，当你处于像我一样的情况时，你会觉得自己已经缺乏自尊了。
And so dealing with that situation is just kind of like-- you just feel like that's what-- he looks at you like-- is that how men look at you?
所以处理这种情况就像——你只是觉得那就是——他看着你——男人就是这样看你的？
And so it's just like I'm going to say whatever to her because she is who she is.
所以就像我会对她说任何话，因为她就是她。
Khristen did not go to the police.
克里斯汀没有去报警。
She thought it was her word against his and that, because of her record, she wouldn't be believed.
她认为这是她的话反对他的，而且由于她的记录，她不会被相信。
She thought she needed to bolster her claim in some way, collect some evidence or something.
她认为她需要以某种方式支持她的主张，收集一些证据或其他什么。
She called a private investigator, wondering if they could surveil him, but they were too expensive.
她打电话给一名私家侦探，想知道他们是否可以监视他，但费用太高了。
The private investigator she talked to gave her this tip.
与她交谈的私家侦探给了她这个提示。
North Carolina is a one-party consent state, meaning it was legal for Khristen to record him, try to get proof without his permission.
北卡罗来纳州是一个一党同意的州，这意味着克里斯汀在未经他许可的情况下记录他并试图获取证据是合法的。
But your friends know enough to hurt you.
但你的朋友知道的足以伤害你。
Yeah.
是的。
Eric Pender You see what I'm saying?
埃里克·彭德 你明白我在说什么吗？
They know--
他们知道——
Which brings us back to the recording Khristen made on that Sunday in April back in 2012.
这让我们回到了 2012 年 4 月的那个周日，克里斯汀录制的录音。
Pender is coming back ostensibly to inspect the house.
彭德表面上是回来视察房子的。
He still hasn't signed the form she needs to move in.
他还没有签署她搬入所需的表格。
Remember, Khristen is trying to record Pender propositioning her, but when he walks up, he's not doing that.
请记住，克里斯汀试图记录彭德向她求婚的过程，但当他走上前时，他并没有这样做。
He starts talking about his job at the housing office, how he is in charge of handling complaints.
他开始谈论他在住房办公室的工作，以及他如何负责处理投诉。
Any time I deal with a complaint, the complaints come to me all the time.
每当我处理投诉时，投诉都会向我袭来。
He says, any time I deal with a complaint-- he's talking to you about a complaint.
他说，每当我处理投诉时，他都是在和你谈论投诉。
Do you know what he's talking about?
你知道他在说什么吗？
See, that's what he was saying.
你看，他就是这么说的。
He was saying that somebody told his boss that I said that he was making advances and bothering me.
他说有人告诉他的老板，我说他在讨好我，打扰我。
Which she hadn't.
她没有。
She'd only told a few people and that private investigator about Pender.
她只告诉了几个人和那个私家侦探关于彭德的事。
Confused, Khristen tries to play it off.
克里斯汀很困惑，试图以此来应对。
You sure?
你确定吗？
Eric Pender I'm positive.
埃里克·彭德 我很肯定。
You want to [BLEEP] me?
你想[BLEEP]我吗？
I just can't see that now.
我现在看不到。
Eric Pender Just don't stir it up.
埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender）：别惹事了。
Don't say nothing.
什么也别说。
Now, I'm just telling you when somebody's in your business.
现在，我只是在有人介入你的业务时告诉你。
The sum of all this for Khristen-- she's realizing that telling her housing office about Pender, filing an actual complaint is out of the question.
对克里斯汀来说，这一切的总和是——她意识到，向住房办公室通报有关彭德的事情并提出实际投诉是不可能的。
Instead of calling me, they call him and tell him everything instead of calling me, saying, is this happening to you?
他们没有打电话给我，而是打电话给他并告诉他一切，而不是打电话给我说，这种事发生在你身上吗？
So at that point, you know that nobody on your side.
所以到了那个时候，你就知道没有人站在你这边了。
Now, the people that's close to you know that you've got a task ahead of you.
现在，与您关系密切的人知道您面前有一项任务。
I don't see them.
我没有看到他们。
It's a weird recording because Eric Pender says things that sound simultaneously like a threat and like they could be the advice of someone who's protective and caring.
这是一段奇怪的录音，因为埃里克·彭德所说的话听起来既像是威胁，又像是一个保护和关心的人的建议。
Pender had what Khristen considered a supreme confidence, where he could finesse words, make insults sound flowery and innocent.
彭德拥有克里斯汀认为的至高无上的自信，他可以巧妙地运用言语，让侮辱听起来华丽而天真。
It's like, to me, he was just trying to make me his friend.
对我来说，他只是想让我成为他的朋友。
And I was trying to keep myself afloat in the conversation while I was feeling like I was drowning at the same time.
我试图让自己在谈话中保持漂浮，同时我感觉自己快要被淹死了。
For example, as she's raking, Pender starts lecturing her about her kids.
例如，当她正在耙地时，彭德开始向她讲授有关她的孩子的知识。
You really should've had your kids over here, too.
你真的应该把你的孩子也带到这里来。
Yeah.
是的。
No, I mean, but they're not here.
不，我是说，但他们不在这里。
They don't be here none.
他们都不在这里。
Well, I know, but I'm just saying, if they were here, you should have them here raking in this yard.
嗯，我知道，但我只是说，如果他们在这里，你应该让他们在这个院子里耙地。
And you've got a son, right?
你还有一个儿子，对吧？
Mhm.
嗯。
Eric Pender This is part of being a man.
埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender） 这是作为一个男人的一部分。
When I was coming up, my mama-- that's how I learned to work in my yard.
当我长大后，我的妈妈——这就是我学会在院子里工作的方式。
It's a part of that growing up process.
这是成长过程的一部分。
I don't where your daddy fits in this life, but you've got to give him these two-- look, you tell what's-his-name, little man, say look, you're going to be a man one day.
我不知道你爸爸在这一生中适合什么，但你必须给他这两个——听着，你告诉他他叫什么名字，小男人，说听着，有一天你会成为一个男人。
You're going to need to know how to change a tire.
您需要知道如何更换轮胎。
You're going to need to know how to light the grill.
您需要知道如何点燃烤架。
You're going to need to know how to take care of this yard.
你需要知道如何照顾这个院子。
All Khristen can think is this is not what she was hoping to get recorded.
克里斯汀所能想到的就是这不是她希望被记录的内容。
I didn't think none of this was going to work, because I was-- I'm used to him coming, saying, what's up [BLEEP].
我不认为这一切都会起作用，因为我——我已经习惯了他过来，说，怎么了[BLEEP]。
You going to have sex.
你要发生性关系。
You're going to do this, being very blunt on what he want, and why he want it, and when I'm going to do it, and what I get for doing it.
你要这样做，非常直白地告诉他想要什么，为什么他想要它，以及我什么时候要做这件事，以及这样做我会得到什么。
When I'm recording something, it's like--
当我录制一些东西时，就像——
It's all over.
一切都结束了。
Khristen Sellers --all over the place.
克里斯汀·塞勒斯——到处都是。
So I'm like, oh, this is not going to work.
所以我想，哦，这是行不通的。
So that's how I felt at that point.
这就是我当时的感受。
But also, all that advice about how she should raise her kids--
而且，所有关于她应该如何抚养孩子的建议——
He's arrogant, and he's like I'm beneath.
他很傲慢，就好像我低人一等一样。
In his mind, he could say what he want to say to me, no matter who's involved.
在他心里，他可以对我说他想说的话，不管涉及到谁。
You're beneath me, so I know how to raise your children.
你在我之下，所以我知道如何抚养你的孩子。
Now, you're beneath me, so I know how to get you in this house.
现在，你在我之下，所以我知道如何让你进入这所房子。
And you're beneath me, so I can help you.
而且你在我之下，所以我可以帮助你。
Everything was talking down, or making me feel like I'm not enough, or I'm not a good enough mom.
一切都在贬低我，或者让我觉得我不够好，或者我不是一个足够好的妈妈。
Everything was to try to belittle me into nothing.
一切都是为了贬低我。
Pender keeps talking, but not about home inspection.
彭德一直在谈论，但没有谈论房屋检查。
He still doesn't explicitly proposition Khristen, like the first time that they met.
他仍然没有像他们第一次见面那样明确向克里斯汀求婚。
He's suggestive, though.
不过他很有暗示性。
He mentions for no apparent reason how women need to stop acting like they don't know how they got pregnant.
他无缘无故地提到女性需要停止表现得好像她们不知道自己是如何怀孕的一样。
[INAUDIBLE] get mad.
[听不清] 生气。
Y'all know where babies come from.
你们都知道婴儿从哪里来。
You [BLEEP], you get pregnant.
你[哔]，你怀孕了。
Damn, I mean, don't be mad at the world.
该死，我的意思是，不要对这个世界生气。
He goes further.
他走得更远。
He reminds Khristen how he came by her house and, quote, "asked her for some."
他提醒克里斯汀他是如何来到她家的，并引用她的话说，“向她要了一些。”
And seeing how I came by and asked you for some anyway.
看看我是怎么过来向你要一些东西的。
I said, well, damn, maybe-- and then I start thinking-- I say, well--
我说，好吧，该死，也许——然后我开始思考——我说，好吧——
Well, maybe it's-- Eric Pender It's maybe because you like women, and maybe I should never even approach you.
好吧，也许是——埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender）也许是因为你喜欢女人，也许我根本不应该接近你。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know what you like.
我不知道你喜欢什么。
Oh-- Eric Pender This is my first-- second time even seeing you, so--
哦——埃里克·彭德 这是我第一次——第二次见到你，所以——
What if I was gay?
如果我是同性恋怎么办？
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
So what?
所以呢？
Why would you use that against me?
你为什么要用它来对付我？
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
But he would do that.
但他会那么做。
Anything that he felt could be a target to hit you in a way to make you feel like I've got to prove him I'm not this.
他感觉到的任何事情都可能成为打击你的目标，让你觉得我必须向他证明我不是这样的。
Then he would use that.
然后他就会用那个。
Did you feel like he was trying to make you angry?
你有没有觉得他想惹你生气？
Yeah, I did.
是的，我做到了。
I felt like he was trying to make me give in to say, no, I'm not like that.
我觉得他试图让我屈服，告诉我，不，我不是那样的人。
I'll do it to prove it or something.
我会这样做来证明这一点或其他什么。
He hints at making a deal with her to help her with her housing, but doesn't spell out what she'd have to do in that deal.
他暗示要与她达成协议，帮助她解决住房问题，但没有说明她在该协议中必须做什么。
Khristen keeps recording.
克里斯汀继续录音。
He reminds her that he has a lot of authority and can help her.
他提醒她，他有很大的权力，可以帮助她。
I do have some discrepancy on how I enforce the rules.
我对执行规则的方式确实存在一些差异。
It may be a situation-- your power might be off.
这可能是一种情况——您的电源可能已关闭。
You got 48 hours sometimes with your power off.
有时您可以在断电的情况下度过 48 小时。
I'm going to come--
我要来——
[INAUDIBLE] Eric Pender I'm going to come back in three days, instead of two.
[听不清] Eric Pender 我将在三天后回来，而不是两天。
That's going to be your extra day to get your power back on, so forth and so on.
这将是你恢复供电的额外一天，等等。
I want--
我想要——
That's back to what I know.
这又回到了我所知道的。
The previous conversations, when he do ask for sex and all that, that's how he get to that-- is I'm helping you, so let me tell you what you got to do to get that help.
在之前的谈话中，当他确实要求发生性行为之类的事情时，他就是这样做的——我在帮助你，所以让我告诉你你需要做什么才能获得帮助。
So that tone is what I was used to, so when he got to that calm place, I'm like, here you go.
所以我已经习惯了这种语气，所以当他到达那个平静的地方时，我就说，给你。
Finna try to make me feel like he's helping me, because if I have sex, I have somewhere to stay for having sex forever.
芬娜试图让我感觉他在帮助我，因为如果我发生性行为，我就有地方可以永远做爱。
And he's getting ready to go on today.
他今天正准备继续。
I want you to do such and such.
我要你做这样那样的事。
I did.
我做到了。
At that point, I really knew, OK, it's coming.
那时，我真的知道，好吧，它即将到来。
But it doesn't come.
但它没有来。
Pender instead brings up the most on topic housing inspection related subject of his visit-- the barn.
相反，彭德提出了他访问中最受关注的住房检查相关主题——谷仓。
There's this little barn-type shed in Khristen's backyard.
克里斯汀的后院有一个谷仓式的小棚屋。
It's filled with garbage, and Khristen had put snake repellent around the outside of it to keep snakes, if there were any, trapped inside.
里面装满了垃圾，克里斯汀在外面涂上了驱蛇剂，以防蛇（如果有的话）被困在里面。
Pender says, I'd get that barn cleaned out.
彭德说，我会把那个谷仓清理干净。
Get this barn cleaned out.
把这个谷仓清理干净。
I'm going to say something.
我要说点什么。
Now, he said that he was-- Eric Pender Get it clean up because--
现在，他说他是——埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender）把事情清理干净，因为——
The guy that was here, he was paying them.
这里的那个人正在付钱给他们。
All this-- Jessica Lussenhop Pender starts listing all the things she could use the barn for-- card games, an escape from the kids.
所有这一切——杰西卡·卢森霍普·彭德（Jessica Lussenhop Pender）开始列出她可以利用谷仓做的所有事情——打牌、逃离孩子们的束缚。
He's suddenly singly focused on the potential greatness of a rundown barn.
他突然全神贯注于一座破旧谷仓的潜力。
You could keep stuff in that barn.
你可以把东西放在那个谷仓里。
You and your friends want to have a card game away from the kids [INAUDIBLE] just get one [INAUDIBLE].
您和您的朋友想要远离孩子们[听不清]玩纸牌游戏，只需玩一个[听不清]即可。
Mhm.
嗯。
Yeah, because you can go in the barn, and you see how the window in the barn-- and say, we can go in the barn.
是的，因为你可以走进谷仓，你会看到谷仓的窗户——然后说，我们可以走进谷仓。
And you can have this here.
你可以在这里得到这个。
It was just like, the more he was describing, the closer he was trying to get to the barn.
就好像，他描述得越多，他就越想接近谷仓。
He was trying to find a way to get me there, and mind you, we're outside.
他试图找到一种方法让我到达那里，请注意，我们在外面。
So I guess him trying to do anything-- that would probably be the best place for him.
所以我猜他会尝试做任何事情——那可能对他来说是最好的地方。
Pender keeps insisting she go in the barn with him.
彭德一直坚持让她和他一起去谷仓。
Khristen keeps avoiding it.
克里斯汀一直回避它。
She won't go.
她不会去。
She finally says, if I see a snake in there, I'm going to pass out and die.
她最后说，如果我看到里面有蛇，我就会昏倒而死。
And they met at [INAUDIBLE] so he mailing him a check.
他们在[听不清]见面，所以他寄了一张支票给他。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
Yeah, I would certainly take-- even if you had to do it, I would take these two bags at a time.
是的，我当然会拿——即使你必须这样做，我也会一次拿这两袋。
He mailing a check for them today.
他今天给他们寄了一张支票。
I'm not going in with the snake.
我不会和蛇一起去的。
I'm going to passed out die.
我快要晕过去死了。
I felt like, if I would've went in that barn, he definitely-- it would have been OK for him in his mind that she's saying OK.
我觉得，如果我走进那个谷仓，他肯定——在他看来，她说好的对他来说是没问题的。
And I knew I wasn't going in there, so.
我知道我不会进去，所以。
It seems to work.
似乎有效。
Pender backs off slowly.
彭德慢慢后退。
They have one last back and forth.
他们还有最后一次来回。
He starts to walk away, says, all right then, we straight.
他开始走开，说，好吧，我们走吧。
[INAUDIBLE] Eric Pender All right, well, we straight.
[听不清] Eric Pender 好吧，好吧，我们说正经。
Finally, he says the most damning thing he's said in the whole recording.
最后，他说出了整个录音中他说过的最可恶的话。
Well-- Eric Pender Well, we almost straight.
嗯——埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender） 嗯，我们几乎是直的。
You'll take care of me later on.
以后你会照顾我的。
Well, we almost straight.
好吧，我们几乎直了。
You'll take care of me later on.
以后你会照顾我的。
Just take it and rake it.
只需拿起它并耙它即可。
Jessica Lussenhop Khristen stopped recording.
杰西卡·卢森霍普·克里斯汀停止录音。
She worried immediately that what she had recorded wasn't enough, and if it wasn't, that she was stuck right where she started-- her house hanging in the lurch.
她立即担心自己记录的内容还不够，如果不够，她就会陷入原地——她的房子摇摇欲坠。
She felt desperate.
她感到绝望。
How is this going to be over?
这件事要怎样结束呢？
When it's going to be over?
什么时候才能结束呢？
Him saying I still got to take care of him-- it was just like, so this ain't going to be over until I do it.
他说我仍然要照顾他——这就像，所以除非我做到这一点，否则这一切都不会结束。
In his head, it's-- that's what it is.
在他的脑海里，就是这样。
Until I have sex with him, this isn't over.
在我和他发生性关系之前，一切都还没有结束。
It's not over.
事情还没有结束。
And in my mind, I knew that he had come to expect every year-- every year.
在我看来，我知道他每年都在期待着——每年。
And him having to expect every year, that means I had to have some kind of a sexual thing with him for him to approve it every year.
他每年都必须期待，这意味着我每年都必须与他发生某种性行为才能让他批准。
I just was praying that that recording was enough proof that he's been doing it.
我只是祈祷那段录音足以证明他一直在这么做。
So I just didn't know if I had enough proof.
所以我只是不知道我是否有足够的证据。
This recording kicked off a pretty remarkable series of events.
这张录音拉开了一系列相当引人注目的事件的序幕。
Khristen used it to file a criminal charge against Eric Pender.
克里斯汀用它对埃里克·彭德提出刑事指控。
He was convicted of simple assault, but appealed and got the case dropped.
他被判犯有简单袭击罪，但提出上诉并撤销了案件。
She also played the recording for a young lawyer, who didn't even have an office yet or know for sure if what Khristen was describing was illegal, but he listened to the tape, believed her, and took the case.
她还为一位年轻律师播放了录音，这位年轻律师甚至还没有办公室，也不确定克里斯汀所描述的内容是否违法，但他听了录音，相信了她，并接下了这个案子。
Khristen's lawyer filed a civil suit, and a local paper ran a story about it.
克里斯汀的律师提起民事诉讼，当地一家报纸对此进行了报道。
More and more women started coming forward with stories about Eric Pender and Pender's boss, John Wesley, who was also asking for sex in exchange for vouchers.
越来越多的女性开始站出来讲述有关埃里克·彭德和彭德的老板约翰·韦斯利的故事，约翰·韦斯利也要求以性行为来换取代金券。
The case grew from three women to eight, and then to 16.
此案的女性人数从 3 名增加到 8 名，然后增加到 16 名。
Six of the women went along with the men's sexual demands.
其中六名女性同意了男性的性要求。
One of them lost her housing anyway.
无论如何，其中一人失去了住房。
The lawsuit ran on for years, which became its own form of punishment for Khristen, because Eric Pender was still her home inspector.
这起诉讼持续了多年，这也成为了对克里斯汀的惩罚，因为埃里克·彭德仍然是她的房屋检查员。
He continued working for them.
他继续为他们工作。
At one point, he tried to cancel Khristen's voucher.
有一次，他试图取消克里斯汀的优惠券。
Her lawyers blocked it.
她的律师阻止了它。
The case was moved from state to federal court.
该案已从州法院转移至联邦法院。
Department of Justice lawyers got involved.
司法部律师介入。
Khristen got called all the names-- liar, felon, opportunist.
克里斯汀被骂了各种名字——骗子、重罪犯、机会主义者。
Once, in a grocery store, a woman Khristen barely knew approached her.
有一次，在一家杂货店里，一位克里斯汀几乎不认识的女人走近她。
She really felt adamant on telling me you're messing this up.
她真的很坚决地告诉我你把事情搞砸了。
You're messing up how we get our vouchers.
你搞乱了我们获取优惠券的方式。
And that's--
那就是——
She was saying we-- like not just me, a bunch of us.
她说我们——不仅仅是我，还有我们一群人。
Yeah, so that's when I kind of understood-- when she said this to me, it just kind of hit me on how they were able to do it for so long, how he was so confident, because look at how this woman feel.
是的，所以那时我有点明白了——当她对我说这句话时，我突然意识到他们是如何能够做到这么长时间的，他是如何如此自信，因为看看这个女人的感受。
There aren't any good numbers on how common sexual harassment is in housing situations.
目前还没有关于住房环境中性骚扰的普遍程度的可靠数据。
No one seems to be tracking it.
似乎没有人在追踪它。
In July of 2015, three years after Khristen made the recording, the federal lawsuit ended.
2015 年 7 月，即克里斯汀录制该唱片三年后，联邦诉讼结束。
Four-County settled with the Department of Justice.
四县与司法部达成和解。
Pender and Wesley were banned from working in Section 8, or renting or managing any property permanently.
Pender 和 Wesley 被禁止在第 8 区工作，或永久租赁或管理任何财产。
Neither admitted to any wrongdoing.
两人均未承认有任何不当行为。
Both denied all the allegations against them.
两人均否认针对他们的所有指控。
I reached out to Pender and Wesley for this story.
我联系了彭德和韦斯利来了解这个故事。
Wesley didn't call me back.
韦斯利没有给我回电话。
I called Pender's lawyer, tried previous addresses, called old numbers, and his ex-wife.
我给彭德的律师打了电话，尝试了以前的地址，拨打了旧号码，还有他的前妻。
No one knew where he was.
没有人知道他在哪里。
Four-County didn't respond either.
四郡也没有回应。
They've changed their name since.
从那以后他们改了名字。
The women were awarded a $2.7 million settlement, the largest sexual harassment in housing settlement in US history at the time.
这些女性获得了 270 万美元的和解金，这是当时美国历史上最大的住房性骚扰和解案。
Ultimately, the number of victims in the suit was 87.
最终，该诉讼的受害者人数为87人。
Khristen's recording was evidence of Pender's behavior, but now, years later, when she listens to it, she hears it very differently than she did at the time.
克里斯汀的录音是彭德行为的证据，但多年后的现在，当她听到它时，她听到的声音与当时截然不同。
What she hears is herself, who she is in that recording.
她听到的是她自己，她就是录音中的那个人。
She hears how small she becomes around him.
她听到自己在他身边变得多么渺小。
And she thought about the recording a lot.
她对录音思考了很多。
When I first called her in November to see if she might be willing to talk to me for this story, almost immediately she said, I'm glad you brought this up.
当我十一月份第一次打电话给她，询问她是否愿意与我谈论这个故事时，她几乎立刻就说，我很高兴你提起这件事。
She told me she'd never talked it through with anyone the way she's always wanted to.
她告诉我，她从来没有像她一直想要的那样与任何人谈论过这件事。
I visited Khristen in the house she moved to right after the case settled-- a three bedroom in Greensboro, where she lives with her two youngest kids.
我拜访了克里斯汀，案件解决后她搬到了格林斯博罗的一间三居室的房子里，她和两个最小的孩子住在那里。
I played the recording for her.
我给她放了录音。
She hadn't heard it in years.
她已经很多年没有听到过这个声音了。
Even listening to it, I'm like, god, you could have said this.
即使听到它，我也会想，上帝，你也可以这么说。
You could've said that.
你可以这么说。
You could have did this.
你本来可以这么做的。
I beat myself up for some of that.
我为此责备自己。
Really?
真的吗？
Khristen Sellers Yeah, because I feel like I could have argued more or something.
克里斯汀·塞勒斯 是的，因为我觉得我可以争论更多或其他什么。
And I know that it did have a good outcome, but I just feel like, if I would've told him more-- and sometimes I wish I would have just told him off.
我知道这确实有一个好的结果，但我只是觉得，如果我能告诉他更多的话——有时我希望我能直接告诉他。
I do beat myself up for some little things.
我确实会因为一些小事而责备自己。
The way she dealt with Eric Pender, she says, is something lots of women do with men, particularly men who have power over them.
她说，她对待埃里克·彭德的方式，是很多女人对待男人的方式，尤其是对她们有权力的男人。
She laughs, deflects, pretends, tells half truths, demures, changes the subject, bites her tongue, smiles too much, agrees too much, hides her anger, hides all her emotions, buries her personality.
她笑，转移注意力，假装，说半真半假，故作端庄，改变话题，咬住舌头，笑得太多，同意太多，隐藏她的愤怒，隐藏她所有的情感，埋葬她的个性。
It's so familiar I asked every woman I talked to in this lawsuit about it, and then nearly every woman in my life about it.
这件事太熟悉了，我向在这起诉讼中与我交谈过的每一位女性询问了这件事，然后又问了我生命中几乎每一位女性。
As we talked, Khristen and I started calling it the tactic.
当我们交谈时，克里斯汀和我开始称之为策略。
The tactic come in place when it's somebody who has control or somebody who I have to see on a regular basis and they're affecting my livelihood, because your like, my dream is on the other side of that person.
当有人有控制权或我必须定期见到他们并且他们影响我的生计时，这种策略就会到位，因为你喜欢，我的梦想就在那个人的另一边。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
My livelihood is on the other side of this person.
我的生计就在这个人的另一边。
So if I try to tear this person down, then they can stop me from reaching that.
因此，如果我试图摧毁这个人，那么他们就可以阻止我实现这一目标。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
When do you think you learned it?
你认为你什么时候学会的？
When do you think you-- what's the first memory you have of trying to use this as a strategy to get through a difficult situation?
您什么时候认为您尝试使用此作为度过困难局面的策略的第一个记忆是什么？
I had a certain family member that would do things to hurt me, but I didn't want them to hurt me.
我有某个家人会做出伤害我的事情，但我不想让他们伤害我。
So I knew I got to be in the same house with him for a certain period of time.
所以我知道我必须和他在同一所房子里呆一段时间。
This family member abused Khristen both physically and sexually until she was about 12 years old.
这位家庭成员对克里斯汀进行身体和性虐待，直到她 12 岁左右。
As a kid, she never told anybody.
小时候，她从来没有告诉过任何人。
Being in low income families, a lot of people shelter these things because it would cause more pain to the family.
在低收入家庭中，很多人都会隐藏这些东西，因为这会给家庭带来更多痛苦。
We already struggling.
我们已经在挣扎了。
We already going through this.
我们已经经历过这个了。
We already going through that, so why would I put more on the family?
我们已经经历过这些，那为什么我还要把更多的精力放在家庭上呢？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Then you also have the fact that it's embarrassing.
那么你也会发现这很尴尬。
And what if don't nobody believe you?
如果没有人相信你怎么办？
And now you got all those things.
现在你得到了所有这些东西。
So it just seems better to shelter it.
所以看来最好还是庇护它。
She didn't start using these tactics with Eric Pender, and she didn't stop using them after him.
她并不是在埃里克·彭德（Eric Pender）身上开始使用这些策略的，在他之后她也没有停止使用这些策略。
In the years since the lawsuit, Khristen said she found herself in a job where, again, someone in a higher position than her started making sexually explicit comments to her.
诉讼发生后的几年里，克里斯汀说，她发现自己的工作中，职位比她高的人再次开始向她发表露骨的性评论。
She was afraid to offend him, so she used the tactic, made up an excuse to redirect him.
她怕得罪他，所以就用了计谋，编了个借口引诱他。
She told him, I'm not for you.
她告诉他，我不适合你。
I'm too crazy, and you should steer clear of me.
我太疯狂了，你应该远离我。
Not long after, Khristen says the guy walked right up behind her and grabbed her breast.
克里斯汀说，不久之后，那个人走到她身后，抓住了她的胸部。
Khristen quit that day, walked out, never went back.
克里斯汀那天辞职了，走了出去，再也没有回去。
She told me, I can't file a federal lawsuit every time something like this happens to me.
她告诉我，我不能每次发生这样的事情就提起联邦诉讼。
So like I said, Khristen's thought about the recording with Eric Pender and how she handled him in the recording a lot over the years.
就像我说的，克里斯汀对与埃里克·彭德的录音以及多年来她如何在录音中处理他有很多想法。
I asked her, after all this, if you could go back to when you first met Eric Pender, what do you wish you'd have said?
我问她，经历了这一切，如果你能回到第一次见到埃里克·彭德的时候，你希望自己说什么？
Oh yeah, now, on that note-- [LAUGHS] look, on that note, yeah, I just-- I wish I could have just looked at him and said, Mr. Pender, I'm not interested in you.
哦，是的，现在，在那张纸条上——[笑]看，在那张纸条上，是的，我只是——我希望我能看着他说，彭德先生，我对你不感兴趣。
I don't want you in no type of way, form, or fashion.
我不想要你以任何方式、形式或时尚。
I don't want to have no dinners with you for a voucher here, now, or forever more.
我不想在这里、现在，或者永远不再为了一张代金券而和你共进晚餐。
I don't want no dinners with you, and I wish you would just stop asking me, because to me, I felt like he didn't think I could complete a sentence like that.
我不想和你一起吃饭，我希望你不要再问我了，因为对我来说，我觉得他认为我无法完成这样的句子。
And if I would have said it to him like that, maybe he would've been like, wow, whoa.
如果我那样对他说，也许他会说，哇，哇。
She talk a little bit better than I thought.
她说话比我想象的要好一些。
That would've been the best thing for me-- to be able to say it to him in a way where it's like, OK, you're not beneath me-- I mean, I'm not beneath you.
这对我来说是最好的事情——能够以这样的方式对他说，好吧，你不低于我——我的意思是，我不低于你。
We're eye to eye hear.
我们面面相觑。
Just the other day, Khristen told me she has a new tactic.
就在前几天，克里斯汀告诉我她有一个新策略。
She used it with a guy at her work who kept trying to tell her these sexual jokes.
她在工作中与一个一直试图告诉她这些性笑话的人一起使用它。
Khristen was not having it.
克里斯汀不同意。
In a roomful of people, with her boss watching, she tried her new move, and it worked.
在一屋子人的注视下，她尝试了她的新举措，结果很有效。
He backed off.
他退缩了。
She said to the guy, Google me, because I will record you.
她对那个人说，谷歌我，因为我会记录你。
Jessica Lussenhop.
杰西卡·卢森霍普。
Coming up, idle chit chat about a dog with an FBI agent can feel very threatening.
接下来，与联邦调查局特工闲聊关于一只狗的闲聊可能会让人感觉非常有威胁。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
So it's March 2020, and in this week of schools closing, and people being quarantined, and the NBA, and Disneyland, and Broadway all shutting down, and still not enough tests out there to even begin to figure out how far coronavirus has spread, we have stories about moments when people feel a low hum of menace, a sense that things might get much worse.
现在是 2020 年 3 月，在学校关闭、人们被隔离、NBA、迪士尼乐园和百老汇全部关闭的一周，而且仍然没有足够的测试来开始弄清楚冠状病毒的传播程度，我们有一些故事讲述了人们感到低沉的威胁的时刻，一种感觉事情可能会变得更糟的感觉。
And it is not clear how much worse that means.
目前尚不清楚这意味着有多糟糕。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two-- Reality Show.
第二幕——真人秀。
So the first act of our program today was about a man who was breaking the rules.
所以我们今天节目的第一幕是关于一个违反规则的人。
This act is about men enforcing rules.
该法案是关于男人执行规则的。
In this case, it's FBI agents.
在这种情况下，是联邦调查局特工。
They're questioning a suspect.
他们正在审问一名嫌疑人。
This interrogation happened in June 2017.
这次审讯发生在2017年6月。
It's a real interrogation that happened.
这是真实发生过的审讯。
The suspect was an NSA contractor named Reality Winner.
嫌疑人是一名名叫 Reality Winner 的美国国家安全局承包商。
The FBI actually denied a request for the recording of this.
联邦调查局实际上拒绝了记录这一情况的请求。
They said it was not sufficiently in the public interest.
他们表示，这不足以符合公共利益。
Fortunately for us, theater director Tina Satter says she read the transcript of what was said and thought, this is a play, a thriller.
对我们来说幸运的是，戏剧导演蒂娜·萨特说她读了所说的话并认为这是一部戏剧，一部惊悚片。
This woman, alone in her house-- these men who arrive and question her.
这个女人，独自一人在家里——这些男人来到并质问她。
And Tina Satter put this on stage, more or less verbatim, with actors playing the agents and playing Reality Winner.
蒂娜·萨特（Tina Satter）将这一点或多或少逐字逐句地搬上舞台，演员们扮演特工和现实赢家。
Even the most casual small talk between them has this air to it.
即使是他们之间最随意的闲聊也有这种气氛。
The entire thing on stage takes 70 minutes.
整个舞台表演需要 70 分钟。
We're going to play you an edited down excerpt.
我们将为您播放一段经过编辑的摘录。
Emily Davis plays Reality Winner.
艾米丽·戴维斯饰演现实赢家。
TL Thompson and Pete Simpson play the special agents.
TL Thompson 和 Pete Simpson 饰演特工。
Just so you know what's happening, when they get to a word, or phrase, or sentence that has been redacted in the original FBI transcript, they play this sound--
为了让你知道发生了什么，当他们遇到 FBI 原始笔录中已编辑的单词、短语或句子时，他们会播放这个声音——
[RUMBLING] So you can hear that sound now and then.
[隆隆声]所以你时不时就能听到那个声音。
The action starts outside Reality Winner's home in Augusta, Georgia, and then it moves inside.
故事从真人秀获胜者位于佐治亚州奥古斯塔的家外开始，然后转移到里面。
Here it is.
这里是。
Let's show you who we are.
让我们向您展示我们是谁。
Agent 2 Well, the reason we're here today is that we have a search warrant for your house.
特工 2 好吧，我们今天来这里的原因是我们有对你的房子的搜查令。
OK.
好的。
Agent 2 All right, do you know what this might be about?
特工 2 好吧，你知道这可能是关于什么的吗？
I have no idea.
我不知道。
Agent 2 OK, this is about a possible mishandling of classified information.
特工 2 好的，这是关于可能的机密信息处理不当的问题。
OK.
好的。
Agent 2 So what we've got is-- again, got a warrant, and I'm happy to show it to you.
特工 2 那么我们所得到的是——再次，得到了搜查令，我很高兴向你展示它。
What I'd like to do is sit down and talk you with-- talk with you about it, kind of go over what's going on.
我想做的就是坐下来和你谈谈——和你谈谈这件事，回顾一下正在发生的事情。
Talk to you, kind of get your side of it.
和你谈谈，有点站在你这边。
And of course, you-- completely voluntary to talk to me.
当然，你完全自愿与我交谈。
We can talk here.
我们可以在这里谈谈。
Our office is about five minutes away.
我们的办公室距离酒店大约五分钟路程。
If you want to, we can talk there, if you'd rather.
如果你愿意的话，我们可以在那里谈谈。
We can do either one.
我们可以选择其中之一。
It makes no difference to me.
这对我来说没有什么区别。
I do, I have two-- Agent 1 Because you've been gone for a while.
是的，我有两个——特工 1 因为你已经离开有一段时间了。
Yes.
是的。
Agent 1 What we're going to have to do is we're going to have to go into the house first to make sure it's safe.
特工 1 我们要做的是首先进入房子以确保它的安全。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Agent 1 We have a search warrant, so we're going to.
特工 1 我们有搜查令，所以我们要去。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Agent 1 And what we'll do is we'll keep you out here until we do that, and once we secure it, well, then we'll kind of go from there, OK?
特工 1 我们要做的就是把你留在这里，直到我们做到这一点，一旦我们确保了它，那么我们就从那里出发，好吗？
Of course.
当然。
Agent 1 Is your dog friendly?
特工 1 你的狗友善吗？
OK.
好的。
So that's a problem.
所以这是一个问题。
Reality Winner However, and she might come towards you.
然而现实赢家，她可能会向你走来。
She's never bitten anybody.
她从来没有咬过任何人。
She's not aggressive.
她并不具有攻击性。
She's just got a really good growl going.
她刚刚发出了非常好的咆哮声。
She'll probably just hide under my desk.
她可能会躲在我的桌子下面。
I have a leash.
我有一条皮带。
I can get her leashed up.
我可以把她拴起来。
OK, so what we might want to do is maybe let you go in there with her.
好的，所以我们可能想做的是让你和她一起进去。
You're not to touch anything else.
你不许碰任何其他东西。
Yes, I can do that.
是的，我可以做到。
Agent 1 You're not to do anything else.
特工 1 你不能做任何其他事情。
Yeah, I can lead her straight to the backyard.
是的，我可以直接带她去后院。
But the get the dog, and bring it out here.
但是把狗带出来吧。
I understand Agent 1 Because otherwise, if we're going to have a problem, we're not going to do that, so.
我理解特工 1 因为否则的话，如果我们遇到问题，我们就不会那么做，所以。
House key.
房子钥匙。
Agent 1 OK.
特工 1 好的。
Are there any weapons in the car, in the house?
车里、家里有武器吗？
In the house, yes.
在房子里，是的。
Agent 1 What do you have?
特工 1 你有什么？
It's pink.
它是粉红色的。
How did you know?
你怎么知道的？
Agent 1 OK.
特工 1 好的。
You sound like my house.
你听起来像我家。
OK.
好的。
Agent 2 OK.
特工2 好的。
We're good, then.
那我们就很好了
Agent 2 All right, just don't make any movements for anything [INAUDIBLE].
特工 2 好吧，只是不要做出任何动作[听不清]。
Being kind of obvious.
有点明显。
Agent 1 We're all cool.
特工 1 我们都很酷。
Then we'll get a water.
然后我们去拿水。
We can get her a water--
我们可以给她倒杯水——
--and all that kind of stuff, but let's do that.
——诸如此类的事情，但让我们这样做吧。
Come here, girl.
过来吧，女孩。
Agent 1 We're going to get the dog and bring it out here.
特工 1 我们要把狗带出来。
Right here.
就在这里。
I got her.
我得到了她。
Reality Winner All right, let me get your leash.
现实赢家 好吧，让我来拴住你的皮带。
Leash.
皮带。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
There's people outside.
外面还有人。
I want to make this as easy for you guys as possible.
我想让你们尽可能轻松地做到这一点。
OK, likewise.
好吧，同样。
Just hopefully explain a couple things and--
希望能解释一些事情，然后——
[BARKING] --to figure this all out, and wrap it up.
[吠叫]——弄清楚这一切，然后结束它。
How long you had your dog?
你养狗多久了？
Reality Winner She's actually a foster.
现实赢家 她实际上是一名寄养者。
I'm rehabilitating her so that hopefully she can get adopted later on.
我正在让她康复，希望她以后能被收养。
She's actually a rescue.
她实际上是一个救援者。
I think I got her in March.
我想我是在三月得到她的。
Yeah, my-- one of my dogs was a rescue, and when I got him, he wouldn't-- I was the only guy who could touch him.
是的，我的——我的一只狗是救援人员，当我抓住他时，他不会——我是唯一可以碰他的人。
And this was probably all of three years.
这大概就是三年了。
Anybody else came in the house, especially male, he'd pee all over the place, but I could touch him, and it was fine.
家里有其他人进来，尤其是男性，他会尿得到处都是，但我可以摸他，这很好。
But it was funny, I mean, he's seven years old now.
但这很有趣，我是说，他现在七岁了。
He just comes up to everybody, licks his hand, and he's great.
他只是走到每个人面前，舔他的手，他很棒。
Whoever had him before was a real-- was a real piece of work.
以前拥有他的人都是一个真正的——是一个真正的作品。
All right, so would you like to talk here or talk at the office?
好的，那么您想在这里谈话还是在办公室谈话？
Sure.
当然。
Agent 2 Let's-- I'm trying to think if we have any place in the house that we can kind of sit down that's private.
特工 2 让我们——我在想房子里是否有我们可以坐下来的私人空间。
Is there anything-- anything there in the house we can sit that's kind of away?
房子里有什么东西可以让我们坐得比较远吗？
So it's a one bedroom.
所以这是一间卧室。
I do have a spare bedroom that I don't use that's empty.
我确实有一间闲置的卧室，但我没有使用，那是空的。
I don't like to go back there.
我不喜欢回到那里。
I guess I don't have anything that's completely closed off, though.
不过，我想我还没有完全关闭的东西。
OK, OK.
好的，好的。
Reality Winner Except for that back room.
现实赢家 除了那个后面的房间。
And it's completely empty.
而且里面完全是空的。
Reality Winner Yeah, you'll go in there.
现实赢家 是的，你会进去的。
There's one dog kennel cage.
有一个狗窝笼子。
Other than that, I don't use the room.
除此之外，我不使用这个房间。
OK, all right.
好吧，好吧。
You said you don't like to go in there?
你说你不喜欢进去？
Yeah.
是的。
It's just creepy.
真是令人毛骨悚然。
It's just weird.
这很奇怪。
It's like an addition to the house that's behind the kitchen, and it's always dirty.
这就像厨房后面的房子的附加部分，而且总是很脏。
OK.
好的。
We can talk back there if you're fine going back there.
如果你不介意回去的话我们可以回去谈谈。
OK?
好的？
Yeah, we can go back there.
是的，我们可以回到那里。
So I do have to ask, just however this goes-- and I'm not making any assumptions or anything like that, but is this going to be like a-- I brought my phone into the building type situation where I don't see my phone for three weeks, or?
所以我确实必须问，无论如何，我不会做任何假设或类似的事情，但这是否会像我把手机带入建筑物类型的情况，在那里我三个星期都看不到我的手机，或者？
OK.
好的。
Agent 1 So we do have a warrant for the phone, so.
特工 1 所以我们确实有手机的搜查令，所以。
I'm not making any assumptions or anything like that, but I do teach yoga tomorrow, and the phone has music on it.
我不会做任何假设或类似的事情，但我明天确实教瑜伽，而且手机上有音乐。
OK.
好的。
Reality Winner No, I get-- I can make do, I guess.
现实赢家 不，我明白——我想我可以凑合。
There are bigger problems in the world, I guess.
我想世界上还有更大的问题。
Yeah.
是的。
OK, we're good.
好吧，我们很好。
Agent 1 Want to go back here?
特工 1 想回到这里吗？
Yep.
是的。
You can go ahead and go back in there.
您可以继续前进并返回那里。
Not a problem.
不是问题。
Agent 2 All righty, so what I want to do is kind of explain that we do have a search warrant.
特工 2 好吧，所以我想做的是解释一下我们确实有搜查令。
You're welcome to see the warrant.
欢迎您查看搜查令。
You're welcome to read the warrant, and then explain a little bit about it.
欢迎您阅读搜查令，然后对此进行一些解释。
Now, if you're willing to talk to me, I'd like to go through just kind of how this started.
现在，如果你愿意和我谈谈，我想谈谈这件事是如何开始的。
Sound good to you?
你觉得不错吗？
Yes.
是的。
Agent 2 I'm going to take-- right here-- I'm going to take notes.
特工 2 我要——就在这里——我要做笔记。
Where were you born?
你在哪里出世？
Reality Winner Alice, Texas.
现实获胜者爱丽丝，德克萨斯州。
Like the girl's name, yeah.
就像那个女孩的名字一样，是的。
Agent 2 Like the name, OK.
特工2 就像名字一样，好吧。
And currently you're employed as a contract linguist with Pluribus.
目前您受聘为 Pluribus 的合同语言学家。
Yes.
是的。
Agent 2 OK, how long have you been employed by them.
特工 2 好的，您受雇于他们多久了？
I started 9 February, 2017.
我是2017年2月9日开始的。
Agent 2 OK, and where are you currently assigned?
特工 2 好的，您目前被分配到哪里？
Currently assigned?
目前分配？
Like the NSA 21 code, or--
就像 NSA 21 代码，或者——
I'm sorry, what languages you said?
抱歉，你说的是哪几种语言？
I heard--
我听说——
I'm kidding.
我开玩笑的。
OK.
好的。
All this stems from a report that we received that you had mishandled classified information, OK?
这一切都源于我们收到的一份报告，称您对机密信息处理不当，好吗？
So that's the broad scope of it.
这就是它的广泛范围。
My question to you is, does that ring any bells to you whatsoever?
我问你的问题是，这对你有任何启发吗？
It does now.
现在确实如此。
When I started working at Whitelaw, I had-- do you know PKI passwords?
当我开始在 Whitelaw 工作时，我知道——你知道 PKI 密码吗？
Mhm.
嗯。
Reality Winner I had a printed out email in my folder, and I didn't have a desk yet.
现实赢家 我的文件夹里有一封打印出来的电子邮件，但我还没有办公桌。
So I took it with me, passed through security, went to a Starbucks, and then came back, and they looked through it.
所以我带着它，通过了安检，去了一家星巴克，然后回来，他们检查了它。
And unfortunately, that email that I had printed out was classified, and they filed a report for that.
不幸的是，我打印的那封电子邮件是机密，他们为此提交了一份报告。
And you had gone to Starbucks, come back, and they checked a bag, or they--
你去了星巴克，回来后他们检查了一个袋子，或者他们——
They checked my folder.
他们检查了我的文件夹。
If you're familiar, with Whitelaw, you go through the turnstiles just to get to the cafeteria in back.
如果您熟悉怀特劳，您可以通过十字转门到达后面的自助餐厅。
All right.
好的。
You had gone to the cafeteria?
你去食堂了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Agent 2 So you were in the building, and they nabbed you for--
特工 2 原来你在大楼里，他们逮捕了你——
Yeah.
是的。
Agent 2 OK, all right, but you're still in the building.
特工 2 好吧，好吧，但你还在大楼里。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Agent 2 OK, all right, so what's your work role there at Whitelaw?
特工 2 好吧，那么你在 Whitelaw 的工作职责是什么？
Currently I translate graphic documents and then-- yeah, that's all I do-- from Farsi to English.
目前，我翻译图形文档，然后——是的，这就是我所做的一切——从波斯语翻译成英语。
OK.
好的。
When did you process out of the Air Force?
您什么时候从空军退役？
I processed out of the Air Force December-- December 14, 2016, and up until that time, I had been looking at contracts to try to get my clearance renewed.
我于 12 月 - 2016 年 12 月 14 日离开空军，在那之前，我一直在寻找合同，试图更新我的许可。
Pluribus picked me up-- I believe they gave me the notification around January-- between 11th and 13th, around that day.
Pluribus 来接我了——我相信他们在一月份左右给了我通知——11 号到 13 号之间，也就是那天左右。
OK, all right, so your clearance just kind of passed through.
好的，好吧，那么你的许可就这样通过了。
It passed through, yeah.
就这样过去了，是啊。
Agent 1 So as far as you're aware, you haven't committed any security violations or anything that you're aware of other than this PKI thing?
特工 1 那么据您所知，除了 PKI 问题之外，您没有犯下任何安全违规行为或任何您知道的事情？
Other than that PKI thing, no. I mean, I do print out documents at work, just because it's easier for me to translate them by hand, but then I put them in the bin box.
除了 PKI 之外，没有。我的意思是，我在工作时确实打印出文件，只是因为我用手翻译它们更容易，但后来我把它们放进了垃圾箱。
And then they don't get mixed up with my class notes that I take, because they are-- I use pretty paper, so I never take out white paper.
然后它们不会与我做的课堂笔记混淆，因为它们是——我用漂亮的纸，所以我从不拿出白皮书。
Got it.
知道了。
Reality Winner Because I know that sounds really dumb, but that's just how I can do it now.
现实赢家因为我知道这听起来很愚蠢，但这就是我现在能做到的。
After that whole PKI thing, I was like, no more white paper out of the building.
在整个 PKI 事件之后，我感觉大楼里不再有白皮书了。
Yeah, I printed out stuff.
是的，我打印了一些东西。
Agent 2 Is there a-- why did that come to mind, as far as security?
特工 2 就安全而言，有没有——为什么会想到这个？
It just-- I guess it all-- I just think about having actual papers.
只是——我猜是这样——我只是想拥有实际的论文。
I can't imagine any other way to get things out of the building, I guess, and I'm old fashioned, so I'm just thinking about that.
我想，我无法想象还有什么其他方法可以把东西带出大楼，而且我很守旧，所以我只是在考虑这个。
And especially with the PKI thing, just making sure I didn't accidentally have something in my lunchbox or anything like that.
尤其是对于 PKI 的事情，只要确保我的午餐盒里没有不小心有什么东西或类似的东西就可以了。
Nothing.
没有什么。
Agent 1 You didn't carry anything out of the building.
特工 1 你没有将任何东西带出大楼。
No. No, I definitely let everything get searched all of the time, so I haven't had any other accidents.
不，不，我绝对让一切都一直被搜查，所以我没有发生任何其他事故。
OK.
好的。
Have you ever gone searching for stuff that's not related to your work role?
您是否曾经寻找过与您的工作角色无关的东西？
No. Not unless I have someone in Maryland ask me a question.
不。除非有人在马里兰州问我问题，否则不会。
OK.
好的。
And, I mean, you kind of already answered this, but have you ever taken anything out of the NSA facility.
我的意思是，你已经回答了这个问题，但是你有没有从国家安全局的设施中拿过任何东西？
I mean, you mentioned the PKI--
我的意思是，你提到了 PKI——
Yes.
是的。
Agent 2 But have you ever taken anything out of the facility?
特工 2 但你有没有从设施中带过任何东西？
No. Agent 2 No?
没有。特工 2 没有？
Whether it's a piece of paper-- you ever downloaded anything?
无论是一张纸——您下载过任何东西吗？
Ever emailed anything out?
曾经通过电子邮件发送过任何东西吗？
No. Agent 2 No?
没有。特工 2 没有？
OK.
好的。
Have you ever discussed any classified material with anybody who wouldn't have the prior US government authorization?
您是否曾与未经美国政府事先授权的人讨论过任何机密材料？
Not many people ask about Iranian aerospace, so I lucked out.
没有多少人询问伊朗航天，所以我很幸运。
So you never discussed any work or anything classified with anybody?
所以你从来没有与任何人讨论过任何工作或任何机密的事情？
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
I use a lot of paper, but never anything outside of Iranian and anything else out of that, and never outside of the building.
我使用了大量的纸张，但从来不使用伊朗以外的任何纸张，也不会使用任何其他纸张，也不会使用建筑物之外的纸张。
OK, Reality, what if I said that I had the information to suggest that you did print out stuff that was outside of that scope?
好吧，现实，如果我说我有信息表明你确实打印了超出该范围的内容怎么办？
OK.
好的。
What if I said you printed out information that was related to reports on [RUMBLING].
如果我说你打印了与[RUMBLING]报道相关的信息怎么办？
Reality, we obviously know a lot more than we're telling you at this point.
事实上，我们现在显然知道的比我们告诉你的要多得多。
And I think you know a lot more than you're telling us at this point.
我认为您现在所知道的比您告诉我们的要多得多。
I don't want you to go down the wrong road.
我不想让你走上错误的路。
I think you need to stop and think about what you're saying and what you're doing, because telling a lie to an FBI agent is not going to be the right thing.
我认为你需要停下来想想你在说什么和你在做什么，因为对联邦调查局特工撒谎不是正确的事情。
Again, we are here voluntarily.
再说一遍，我们是自愿来到这里的。
You're talking voluntarily.
你是自愿说话的。
I'm not asking you, forcing you to do anything but think.
我不是要求你，强迫你做任何事情，只是思考。
That's what I'm asking you to do-- is to think.
这就是我要求你做的——思考。
So think about what he just asked and let--
所以想想他刚才问的是什么，然后——
There was one I printed out because I wanted to read it.
我打印了一本，因为我想读它。
Can you remember what day you printed it out?
你还记得你是哪天打印出来的吗？
I might mess up the-- late March, early April, the first two weeks of April.
我可能会搞砸——三月末、四月初、四月的前两周。
It was an NSA Pulse article about [RUMBLING], and yeah, I did.
这是一篇关于 [RUMBLING] 的 NSA Pulse 文章，是的，我做到了。
I did print that one out.
我确实打印了那一份。
I wanted to read it, and the way I had downloaded it, it was just hard for me to read.
我想阅读它，但我下载它的方式对我来说很难阅读。
And I wanted to just look at it, because it looked like a piece of history.
我只想看看它，因为它看起来就像一段历史。
So I wanted to have that on my desk for a day.
所以我想把它放在我的桌子上一天。
And yeah.
是的。
I kept it on my desk for like three days, and then I burn bagged it in the box that has the slats on it by the fridge.
我把它放在桌子上大约三天，然后我把它装进冰箱旁有板条的盒子里。
How about any other times?
其他时间怎么样？
Reality Winner Any other times?
现实赢家 还有其他时候吗？
Did you search for anything on the [RUMBLING] any other times.
您其他时间是否在 [RUMBLING] 上搜索过任何内容？
That did spark my curiosity, so I just kept tabs on reading those articles, looking at the [RUMBLING] was interesting to me.
这确实激发了我的好奇心，所以我只是密切关注这些文章，看[隆隆声]对我来说很有趣。
So I did read some of those.
所以我确实读了其中一些。
OK, did you print out any of those articles?
好的，您打印了这些文章吗？
Did you ever go searching for them?
你有没有去寻找过他们？
Ever go digging?
曾经去挖掘过吗？
Nothing more than like a 10 minute detraction from work.
只不过是从工作中耽误了 10 分钟而已。
OK, all right, did you print out any of those articles?
好的，好吧，你打印出这些文章了吗？
No. The only one was just the one that was like [RUMBLING].
不，唯一的就是那种像[隆隆声]的东西。
OK.
好的。
You're pretty sure it was late April, early March.
你很确定那是四月底三月初。
Think about it-- try to remember personal details of your life and your-- OK?
想一想——试着记住你生活和你的——的个人细节，好吗？
I know.
我知道。
I'm trying to.
我正在努力。
So I remember-- I remember that week.
所以我记得——我记得那一周。
I got into a fight with a boyfriend that week.
那周我和男朋友吵架了。
It had to have been sometime in April.
那一定是四月的某个时候。
I'm just-- I'm trying to think what week-- what weekend after that was like-- I'm sorry.
我只是——我想想想那之后的哪一周——哪一个周末——我很抱歉。
I'm just--
我只是——
No, it's OK.
不，没关系。
Reality Winner I'm trying.
我正在努力成为现实赢家。
Just yeah, like mid-April is all I'm thinking.
是的，我只想到四月中旬。
OK.
好的。
All right.
好的。
What if I told you that I know you searched for and printed out a document on the 9th of May?
如果我告诉您我知道您在 5 月 9 日搜索并打印了一份文档怎么办？
OK.
好的。
Reality Winner I mean, if you-- I, mean obviously you know.
现实赢家我的意思是，如果你——我的意思是显然你知道。
OK.
好的。
Agent 1 This would have been three and a half, four weeks ago, roughly.
特工 1 这大约是三周半，四个星期前。
Mhm, yeah.
嗯，是的。
Agent 1 Do you remember what-- how you-- what you did to get to the article?
特工 1 你还记得你做了什么——你如何——做了什么来获得这篇文章吗？
Other than seeing it on the front page or linking it from another--
除了在首页上看到它或从另一个页面链接它之外——
Do you remember what search terms you might have put in?
您还记得您可能输入了哪些搜索词吗？
Probably [RUMBLING].
可能是[隆隆声]。
I'm not very sophisticated.
我不是很世故。
OK, so you printed out the doc-- you printed out a document, an intelligence report on this.
好的，所以你打印了文件——你打印了一份文件，一份关于此事的情报报告。
You do recall that?
你还记得吗？
OK, so what did you do with that document?
好的，那么您对该文档做了什么？
Like I said, I kept it on my desk for a couple of days because I thought that it was interesting, and I thought that I would read it.
就像我说的，我把它放在桌子上几天了，因为我觉得它很有趣，我想我会读它。
And then I said, no, and I need to not keep this out on my desk.
然后我说，不，我不需要把它放在我的桌子上。
So I put it in the burn bin.
所以我把它放进了燃烧箱。
Yeah.
是的。
Agent 2 All right, Reality, are you sure that's what you did with it?
Agent 2 好吧，Reality，你确定你就是这么做的吗？
Yes.
是的。
Agent 1 You didn't take it out of the building?
特工 1 你没有把它带出大楼？
No. Agent 2 OK, you didn't take it out of the building, give it to anybody else.
不。特工 2 好吧，你没有把它带出大楼，而是给了其他人。
No. Agent 1 You didn't send it to anybody?
没有。特工 1 您没有将其发送给任何人吗？
No. Agent 2 OK.
不，特工 2 好的。
Reality, can you guess how many people might have printed out that document?
事实上，你能猜出有多少人可能打印了该文件吗？
No. Agent 2 It's not too many.
不，特工2 并不算太多。
That document has made it outside, OK?
那个文件已经传到外面了，好吗？
Obviously, because we're here.
显然，因为我们在这里。
Yeah, obviously.
是的，显然。
Crap.
废话。
Agent 2 The most likely candidate, by far and away, is you.
特工 2 到目前为止，最有可能的候选人是您。
I don't think you are a big bad master spy, OK?
我不认为你是一个大坏特务大师，好吗？
I don't.
我不知道。
I don't think that.
我不这么认为。
But I think you might have been angry over everything that's been going on politics-wise.
但我认为你可能对政治上发生的一切感到愤怒。
Can't turn on the TV without getting pissed off, or at least I can't.
无法打开电视而不生气，或者至少我不能。
And I think you might have made a mistake.
我认为你可能犯了一个错误。
Now, why I'm here, and why I want to talk to you is to figure out the why behind this, OK?
现在，我为什么在这里，为什么我想和你谈谈，就是想弄清楚这背后的原因，好吗？
So I ask you again, did you take it out and send it?
那我再问你，你把它拿出来寄了吗？
I didn't.
我没有。
I put it in the burn bag.
我把它放在烧伤袋里。
I mean, I'm trying to deploy.
我的意思是，我正在尝试部署。
I'm not trying to be a whistleblower.
我并不是想成为一名告密者。
That's crazy.
太疯狂了。
So how do you think a document like that would end up getting out?
那么您认为这样的文件最终会如何泄露呢？
I would-- let's be straight.
我会——让我们直说吧。
I mean, there's little to no security on documents.
我的意思是，文件几乎没有安全保障。
OK, but you said you remember.
好吧，但你说你记得。
You remember putting it in the burn bag, sliding it in there.
你记得把它放进燃烧袋里，然后滑进去。
Folded in half?
对折？
Reality Winner Yeah, because it didn't-- yeah, I folded it in half.
现实赢家 是的，因为它没有——是的，我把它对折了。
OK.
好的。
What if I told you that that document, folded in half, made its way outside NSA?
如果我告诉你那份对折的文件已经传到了国家安全局外面怎么办？
I don't know that.
我不知道。
Agent 2 Yeah, made its way out in an envelope postmarked Augusta, Georgia.
特工 2 是的，装在一个邮戳为佐治亚州奥古斯塔的信封里寄出。
See, things are getting a little specific.
看，事情变得有点具体了。
OK.
好的。
Agent 2 OK, it made its way to an online news source that you subscribe to.
Agent 2 好的，它已到达您订阅的在线新闻源。
Getting really specific.
变得非常具体。
Would you agree?
你同意吗？
Looks awfully bad.
看起来很糟糕。
It looks really bad.
看起来真的很糟糕。
Agent 2 So how'd you get it out of the office?
特工 2 那么你是怎么把它带出办公室的呢？
Put it in an envelope and sent it to [RUMBLING].
把它装进信封并发送给[RUMBLING]。
That day, that week, it was just too much to sit back, and watch, and think, why do I have this job if I'm just going to sit back and be helpless?
那天，那一周，我实在太无法坐下来观看并思考，如果我只是袖手旁观，无助的话，为什么我还要这份工作呢？
And it did-- it just-- sorry.
确实如此——只是——抱歉。
I just thought that that was the final straw.
我只是认为这是最后一根稻草。
It was just something that just kind of did it?
这只是某种事情而已吗？
Because you don't seem like the type to do this.
因为你看起来不适合做这种事。
I believe it.
我相信。
I want to believe it.
我想相信它。
I'm not.
我不是。
I'm not.
我不是。
I want to go out with our special forces.
我想和我们的特种部队一起出去。
I mean, that's why I got out of the Air Force.
我的意思是，这就是我离开空军的原因。
That's why I'm here in Augusta.
这就是我来到奥古斯塔的原因。
I wanted my clearance back so I could apply for a deployment, and it was just at a time when I wasn't applying for any deployments.
我想要拿回我的许可，这样我就可以申请部署，而当时我还没有申请任何部署。
And I had seven or eight months left of a job that didn't mean anything to me, because it's Iran, and I'm a Pashto linguist.
我的工作还剩下七八个月，这对我来说毫无意义，因为那是伊朗，而我是普什图语语言学家。
What am I doing translating Farsi?
我在翻译波斯语做什么？
And it just-- I just felt really hopeless, and seeing that information that had been contested back and forth, and back and forth in the public domain for so long, trying to figure out with everything else that keeps getting leaked and keeps getting released, why isn't this getting out?
我只是感到非常绝望，看到那些在公共领域来来回回争论了这么长时间的信息，试图弄清楚其他所有不断被泄露和不断发布的信息，为什么这些信息没有被泄露出去？
Why isn't this getting out there?
为什么这件事没有传出去？
Why can't this be public?
为什么这不能公开？
Actors Emily Davis, TL Thompson, and Pete Simpson.
演员艾米丽·戴维斯、TL·汤普森和皮特·辛普森。
As you may know, this was all in the news.
如您所知，这一切都上了新闻。
The document that Reality Winner leaked to the website The Intercept was an intelligence report confirming Russian hacking in the 2016 election.
Reality Winner 向 The Intercept 网站泄露的文件是一份情报报告，证实俄罗斯在 2016 年大选中进行了黑客攻击。
She's still serving her five year sentence.
她仍在服五年徒刑。
Sounds design and music for the stage production by Sanae Yamada, and Jimin Breslford.
舞台制作的声音设计和音乐由 Sanae Yamada 和 Jimin Breslford 负责。
Tina Satter's theatrical adaptation of the FBI transcript is called Is This a Room.
蒂娜·萨特 (Tina Satter) 根据联邦调查局 (FBI) 的笔录改编成戏剧，名为《这是一个房间吗》(Is This a Room)。
They have a tour scheduled.
他们已经安排了巡演。
Information at halfstraddle.com.
信息请访问 halfstraddle.com。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Nadia Reiman.
图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Nadia Reiman 制作。
The people who put together today's show includes Bim Adewunmi, Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Noor Gill, Damian Grave, Michelle Harris, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Lina Misitzis, Stowe Nelson, Ben Phelan, Robyn Semien, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney.
今天节目的制作人包括 Bim Adewunmi、Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Noor Gill、Damian Grave、Michelle Harris、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Lina Misitzis、Stowe Nelson、Ben Phelan、Robyn Semien、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney。
Our managing editor is Diane Wu.
我们的总编辑是 Diane Wu。
Our executive editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的执行编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
Special thanks today to Kelly Clarke, Craig Hensel, Kendra Hanna, Kendra [?
今天特别感谢凯莉·克拉克、克雷格·亨塞尔、肯德拉·汉纳、肯德拉[？
Munroe, ?] Madeleine Ball, Andrew Hagelshaw, and Maria Hernandez.
门罗，？]玛德琳·鲍尔、安德鲁·哈格尔肖和玛丽亚·埃尔南德斯。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
And I will end this show about the low hum of menace with this very theme appropriate program note.
我将用这个主题恰当的节目说明来结束这个关于威胁的低沉嗡嗡声的节目。
Just a few hours ago, as I was doing some last editing on the show, I learned that a few days ago I shook hands with somebody who now has symptoms of coronavirus, whose wife is a confirmed case.
就在几个小时前，当我对节目进行最后的编辑时，我得知几天前我与一个现在出现冠状病毒症状的人握手，他的妻子是确诊病例。
So the plan is I am going into quarantine myself when I leave the studio today, and we are shutting down our office.
所以计划是我今天离开工作室时要自我隔离，我们将关闭我们的办公室。
Most everybody in our office was already working from home.
我们办公室的大多数人都已经在家工作了。
I just want to say I feel fine.
我只是想说我感觉很好。
Hopefully I'll stay that way between now and next time I talk to you.
希望从现在到下次与你交谈时我能保持这种状态。
Avoid contact with others as much as you can.
尽可能避免与他人接触。
Stay well, and wash your hands, OK?
保持健康，勤洗手，好吗？
And by the way, if you're tired of reciting the happy birthday song twice as you wash, turns out one chorus of the song "Stayin' Alive" is the perfect length, and whether you're a brother, or whether you're a mother, just stay alive.
顺便说一句，如果你厌倦了在洗澡时背诵两遍生日快乐歌，那么歌曲“Stayin' Alive”的副歌部分就是完美的长度，无论你是兄弟，还是母亲，只要活着就行。
Stay alive.
活着。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。