695: Everyone's a Critic - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #695 | March 12, 2021 695: Everyone's a Critic Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 695 集 | 2021 年 3 月 12 日 695：每个人都是评论家 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass So a couple of years ago, Michael wrote a book about Meryl Streep.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 几年前，迈克尔写了一本关于梅丽尔·斯特里普的书。
And it did fine, good reviews, hit the bestseller list for a couple weeks.
而且它的销量很好，评论也很好，连续几周登上畅销书排行榜。
And Michael did something that I guess is a normal thing to do if you've worked on anything for a year and a half including a book.
如果你花了一年半的时间在做任何事情，包括一本书，迈克尔做了一些我认为是正常的事情。
I would occasionally check its ratings on Amazon.
我偶尔会在亚马逊上查看它的评级。
And by occasionally, I mean all the time.
偶尔，我的意思是一直。
And I have to say, most of them were great.
我不得不说，他们中的大多数都很棒。
There were a lot of people who really liked the book.
有很多人非常喜欢这本书。
Right now it has almost 300 customer ratings on Amazon.
目前它在亚马逊上有近 300 个客户评级。
Let's just look it up.
我们来看看吧。
Do you have internet there?
你们那里有互联网吗？
Yes.
是的。
I have 295 customer ratings.
我有 295 个客户评分。
46% of them are five star ratings.
其中 46% 为五星级。
23% are four star ratings.
23% 为四星评级。
So 2/3 of people who rated it loved it.
所以有 2/3 的评价者喜欢它。
So that's nice.
所以这很好。
But it was those other people, the 8% who gave him one star, the 9% who give him two stars.
但其他人，8% 的人给了他一颗星，9% 的人给了他两颗星。
Those are the people he found himself getting stuck on.
这些人是他发现自己陷入困境的人。
I have to say, I'm not proud of any of this.
我不得不说，我并不为此感到自豪。
I'm not proud of talking about this.
我并不以谈论此事为荣。
I wish I was the kind of person who just floated in a cloud above my Amazon ratings, but I'm not.
我希望我是那种在亚马逊评分之上漂浮的人，但我不是。
I mean, some of the things that people wrote on Amazon just kind of cut to the bone in this way.
我的意思是，人们在亚马逊上写的一些东西就是这样切入骨子的。
If someone just says boring, a book critic isn't going to say boring.
如果有人只是说无聊，书评家不会说无聊。
But if an average customer goes on Amazon and says, this book is boring, boring, boring, one star, I think it's worse than a smart book critic explaining why something did or didn't work.
但如果一个普通顾客在亚马逊上说，这本书很无聊，很无聊，很无聊，只有一颗星，我认为这比一个聪明的书评家解释为什么某些东西有效或无效更糟糕。
Boring, bland, hated it, no. There's one that just said no. And it just makes you feel terrible.
无聊，平淡，讨厌它，不。有一个人刚刚说不。这只会让你感觉很糟糕。
So I would check my Amazon score an unhealthy number of times.
所以我会多次检查我的亚马逊分数。
And sometimes before I went to bed, which is a really bad idea, because then you would just drift off to sleep arguing with these people in your head.
有时在我上床睡觉之前，这是一个非常糟糕的主意，因为那样你就会在脑海中与这些人争论而入睡。
But then Michael stumbled onto this strategy-- something he could do to deal with those feelings.
但后来迈克尔偶然发现了这个策略——他可以采取这种策略来处理这些感受。
This has happened.
这已经发生了。
I was just spending too much time thinking about who these people were.
我只是花了太多时间思考这些人是谁。
And at some point, I just clicked on one of their names.
在某个时刻，我只是点击了其中一个名字。
Yeah.
是的。
And that brought me to everything else they had reviewed on Amazon.
这让我了解到他们在亚马逊上评论过的所有其他内容。
And I realized that when you do that, you see what they liked.
我意识到，当你这样做时，你就会看到他们喜欢什么。
And once I saw what some of these people loved on Amazon, it completely neutralized them.
当我在亚马逊上看到其中一些人喜欢的东西时，我完全中和了他们。
So let's go through some of the ones that you saw.
那么让我们来看看您看到的一些内容。
OK.
好的。
So Kathy gave me two stars.
所以凯西给了我两颗星。
She says, disappointing.
她说，令人失望。
Too much detail about people other than Meryl Streep.
关于梅丽尔·斯特里普以外的人的细节太多。
And not enough about Meryl herself.
关于梅丽尔本人还不够。
What did Kathy like?
凯西喜欢什么？
A cupcake stand that comes in lavender with polka dots.
带有圆点的薰衣草色纸杯蛋糕架。
Five stars.
五颗星。
And she just writes, perfect.
她只是写，完美。
What's that say to you?
这对你说了什么？
Michael Schulman That she has enough cupcakes that she needs to arrange them on a cupcake stand in polka dots, and that makes her happy.
迈克尔·舒尔曼 (Michael Schulman) 她有足够的纸杯蛋糕，需要将它们以圆点图案排列在纸杯蛋糕架上，这让她很高兴。
My book cannot speak to that sort of-- let me try this again.
我的书无法讲述此类内容——让我再试一次。
Perfection to Kathy is this cupcake stand filled with cupcakes with polka dots.
对凯西来说，完美的是这个纸杯蛋糕架，里面装满了带有圆点的纸杯蛋糕。
And my book did not give her that same feeling, and that's OK.
我的书没有给她同样的感觉，那没关系。
A reader had given him one star and said about his book, a lot of words, but not interesting.
一位读者给了他一颗星，并评价了他的书，说了很多话，但并不有趣。
Gave five stars to bright red yarn.
给鲜红纱线五颗星。
The person who gave him the one-word review no gave five stars and a rave to a tin kazoo.
给他一个字评论的人给了五颗星，并对锡卡祖笛赞不绝口。
The person who said, boring, boring, boring, and also, the author is so consumed with his lofty vocabulary that the reader falls asleep, gave a rave review to a book predicting the end of the world by 2015.
那个说“无聊、无聊、无聊，而且作者被高高在上的词汇读得睡着了”的人，对一本预测2015年世界末日的书给予了好评如潮。
A woman named Wendy gave one star, telling potential readers to move on.
一位名叫温迪的女士给了一颗星，告诉潜在读者继续前进。
And what did she love?
她喜欢什么？
OK, so Wendy gave five stars to an Amazon.com e-gift card, which struck me as nuts.
好的，温迪给了一张亚马逊电子礼品卡五颗星，这让我很震惊。
Why is anyone rating Amazon gift cards on Amazon?
为什么有人在亚马逊上对亚马逊礼品卡进行评级？
It's like saying, yes, this $20 bill is worth $20.
这就像说，是的，这张 20 美元的钞票值 20 美元。
Why rate this thing?
为什么要评价这个东西？
This thing couldn't possibly be good or bad.
这件事不可能是好是坏。
Have you done the flip side of this?
你做过这件事的另一面吗？
Have you looked up the people who loved your book to see what else they loved?
你有没有查过那些喜欢你的书的人，看看他们还喜欢什么？
No, I don't want to know anything more about them.
不，我不想知道更多关于他们的事情。
They're angels.
他们是天使。
Well, we have done that.
嗯，我们已经做到了。
Let me read some of them to you.
让我读一些给你们听。
This is a woman who gave you five out of five stars.
这位女士给了你五颗星（满分五颗星）。
Interesting, she says.
有趣，她说。
This book was well-written and very interesting.
这本书写得很好而且很有趣。
Meryl's life has been full of interesting people and experiences, and I enjoyed learning more about her.
梅丽尔的生活充满了有趣的人和经历，我很高兴更多地了解她。
She also loved, five out of five stars, the Game of Gnomes Garden Gnome.
她还喜欢《侏儒花园侏儒游戏》（五颗星中的五颗星）。
Throne for the throne room.
宝座为王座室。
Cracks me up every time I look at it.
每次看都让我心碎。
It's in my bathroom where my throne is.
我的宝座就在我的浴室里。
And here's a picture of the gnome.
这是侏儒的照片。
Ugh.
啊。
Yeah.
是的。
That's a gnome.
那是一个侏儒。
Yeah.
是的。
She puts this in her bathroom?
她把这个放在浴室里了？
It's in my bathroom where my throne-- she keeps this gnome in her bathroom.
我的宝座就在我的浴室里——她把这个侏儒放在她的浴室里。
And she gave it five out of five stars.
她给了它五颗星（满分五颗星）。
And she also loved my book.
她也喜欢我的书。
I see what you're saying.
我明白你在说什么。
It doesn't-- [LAUGHS] it's not great if you do it the other way around.
事实并非如此——[笑]如果你反过来做的话那就不好了。
OK, one more.
好的，再来一张。
This person, five out of five stars.
这个人，五颗星中的五颗。
He chronicles her relationships on-stage and off, giving us a clear, unique portrait of a professional.
他记录了她台上台下的关系，为我们描绘了一幅清晰、独特的专业人士肖像。
Also bought, not one, not two, but three Amazon gift cards.
还买了，不是一张，不是两张，而是三张亚马逊礼品卡。
Did she rate them?
她给他们打分了吗？
Ira Glass She rated them.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）她对它们进行了评价。
Five out of five stars.
五颗星中的五颗星。
Don't tell me this.
别告诉我这个。
She's one of the Amazon gift card people?
她是亚马逊礼品卡的人之一？
Just buy something.
就买点东西吧。
Buy something that you like.
买你喜欢的东西。
A cupcake stand, anything.
纸杯蛋糕摊，任何东西。
Get a real thing and rate that.
获取真实的东西并对其进行评分。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Just why?
只是为什么？
The way Michael sees it, the fact that every single thing on Amazon, every gift card, every garden gnome, every light bulb, and USB cord, and mop is measured against every book, every classic film, against every bit of journalism and fiction, against the Bible, and the Quran, and the Bhagavad Gita.
在迈克尔看来，亚马逊上的每一件东西、每一张礼品卡、每一个花园侏儒、每一个灯泡、USB线和拖把都是根据每本书、每部经典电影、每一篇新闻和小说、《圣经》、《古兰经》和《薄伽梵歌》来衡量的。
All on the same five-point scale?
都采用相同的五分制吗？
It's perverse.
这是有悖常理的。
Those things are different.
这些事情是不同的。
And, of course, these kinds of reviews are everywhere.
当然，此类评论随处可见。
I mean, the way the world is now, there's just constant feedback about everything.
我的意思是，现在的世界就是这样，一切都会不断得到反馈。
When you take an Uber, you're asked to rate the Uber driver.
当您乘坐 Uber 时，系统会要求您对 Uber 司机进行评分。
We're just constantly leaving stars for things and leaving customer reviews.
我们只是不断地为事物留下星星并留下客户评论。
There's Yelp.
有叫喊声。
Everyone is constantly assessing everything.
每个人都在不断地评估一切。
That's true.
这是真的。
Everything.
一切。
Here, for example, is a review of the Great Wall of China.
例如，这里是对中国长城的回顾。
One star.
一颗星。
Too crowded.
太拥挤了。
Too much climbing.
爬山太多了。
Missed the greatness of it.
错过了它的伟大之处。
It was a lot of steep climbing time.
这是很长一段陡峭的攀登时间。
The Parthenon.
帕特农神庙。
One star.
一颗星。
It was just a big bunch of columns that lack artistic taste.
那只是一大堆缺乏艺术品味的柱子。
The Statue of Liberty.
自由女神像。
One star.
一颗星。
Imagine a combination of prison and the worst airport security.
想象一下监狱和最糟糕的机场安全的结合。
If you want to feel embarrassed to be an American, then you can find it here.
如果你想感受身为美国人的尴尬，那么你可以在这里找到它。
The Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland.
波兰的奥斯威辛集中营。
One star.
一颗星。
Total disgrace.
彻底的耻辱。
There are no places to rest and reflect in peace.
没有地方可以安静地休息和反思。
Surely, a sight that witnessed one of the largest mass murders in history deserves some space for reflection.
当然，目睹历史上最大的大规模谋杀之一的景象值得反思。
Falling apart and not well-maintained.
分崩离析并且维护得不好。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, in this world where now everyone is a critic, we visit places where reviews really should not be happening, and the story of somebody who very much does not want to leave a review, and someone else with the guts to say no to all the reviewers and haters of one of the most hated and worst reviewed films ever made.
今天，在我们的节目中，在这个人人都是影评人的世界里，我们参观了那些确实不应该出现评论的地方，讲述了一个非常不想留下评论的人的故事，还有一个有勇气对有史以来最令人讨厌和最差评论的电影之一的所有评论家和仇恨者说不的故事。
And you know what that is?
你知道那是什么吗？
No?
不？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act 1, Their Eyes Weren't Watching God.
第一幕，他们的眼睛没有注视上帝。
So some things, it just feels wrong when they're reviewed.
所以有些事情，当它们被审查时，就会感觉不对劲。
And I know I just read you a bunch like that, but want to hear one more?
我知道我刚刚给你读了一堆这样的内容，但想再听一个吗？
I know I do.
我知道我知道。
OK, this one is for the national park at Gettysburg, one of the pivotal battlegrounds in the Civil War.
好的，这是葛底斯堡国家公园的照片，葛底斯堡是内战的关键战场之一。
A woman from Miami gave it three stars and wrote, quote, I guess it's a little moving when you think about freedom and all that stuff, but really, it's a field.
一位来自迈阿密的女士给了它三颗星，并写道，引用，我想当你想到自由和所有这些东西时，这有点令人感动，但实际上，这是一个领域。
So another thing it can feel strange to review or read reviews of?
那么，评论或阅读评论会让人感觉很奇怪的另一件事是什么呢？
Churches.
教堂。
One of our contributors, BA Parker learned this recently.
我们的贡献者之一 BA Parker 最近了解到了这一点。
I hadn't been to church-- any church-- in over a year, and I'd lost myself.
我已经一年多没有去过教堂了——任何教堂，我迷失了自己。
I was miserable.
我很痛苦。
My career was struggling.
我的职业生涯陷入困境。
Relationships were strained.
关系紧张。
Little by little, I could see myself fading.
渐渐地，我发现自己正在消退。
And going to new church felt like a last resort.
去新教堂感觉就像是最后的手段。
One of my roommates suggested a church that she'd been casually attending down the street-- First Corinthian Baptist Church.
我的一位室友推荐了她在街上随意参加的一个教堂——科林斯第一浸信会教堂。
[CAR HORN HONKS] The first Sunday I went, I noticed a line half a block long, mostly of white people in cargo shorts waiting patiently behind a rope.
[汽车喇叭喇叭] 我去的第一个周日，我注意到一条半街区长的队伍，其中大部分是穿着工装短裤的白人，他们在绳子后面耐心等待。
An older black man with church flyers in his hand could see I was confused.
一位手里拿着教堂传单的年长黑人看得出来我很困惑。
He waved me toward the front door and greeted me, as if he were God's bouncer.
他挥手让我朝前门走去，并向我打招呼，就好像他是上帝的保镖一样。
It's a big place-- an old movie theater-- about 2,000 seats, marble floors, ushers, chandeliers.
这是一个很大的地方——一个古老的电影院——大约有 2,000 个座位，大理石地板，引座员，枝形吊灯。
I walked down the crowded aisles and ended up sitting next to an elderly woman dressed in her Sunday best with this broad-brimmed regal hat.
我走过拥挤的过道，最后坐在一位老妇人旁边，她穿着周日最好的衣服，戴着一顶宽边富丽堂皇的帽子。
She reminded me of my great aunt Louise.
她让我想起了我的姨婆路易丝。
When I slid into the pew, she hugged me.
当我坐到座位上时，她拥抱了我。
I didn't realize how much I needed that hug until my eyes started to tear up.
直到我的眼睛开始流泪，我才意识到我是多么需要那个拥抱。
So just try and find this opportunity to just release and to relax the different parts of your body.
因此，尝试寻找这个机会来释放和放松身体的不同部位。
The service began with guided meditation and ended with communion and the choir singing Frankie Beverly and Maze's Happy Feelings.
仪式以引导冥想开始，以圣餐结束，合唱团演唱弗兰基·贝弗利和梅兹的快乐情感。
(SINGING) And these happy feelin's, feel that happy feelin's.
（唱歌）这些幸福的感觉，感受幸福的感觉。
'70s R&B with the blood of Christ-- I thought, secular music?
70 年代充满基督之血的 R&B——我想，世俗音乐？
Lots of young black people?
很多年轻的黑人？
A pastor in jeans?
穿牛仔裤的牧师？
I had found my home.
我找到了我的家。
There was only one problem.
只有一个问题。
Above me, in the far back of the balcony, were tourists-- the white people in line from outside-- hundreds of them snapping selfies and gawking, hovering like a gaggle of anthropologists studying black Baptists in their natural habitat.
在我上方，阳台最后面的地方，有游客——从外面排队的白人——数百人自拍并呆呆地看着，就像一群人类学家在他们的自然栖息地研究黑人浸信会教徒一样。
Every expression of worship, every tear I shed, every hug I gave, every arm I outstretched to God, I felt like I was on display for them.
每一次敬拜的表达，我流下的每一滴眼泪，我给予的每一个拥抱，我向上帝伸出的每一条手臂，我都觉得我是在向他们展示。
I felt exposed.
我感觉自己暴露了。
Do you know [INAUDIBLE]?
你知道[听不清]吗？
Parker There were baptisms.
帕克：有洗礼。
Some of the devout being baptized had overcome great odds.
一些虔诚的人克服了巨大的困难才接受了洗礼。
One, in particular, got the Holy Spirit and sobbed in the pool.
尤其是有一个人得到了圣灵，在池子里哭泣。
Something unnamed and sacred had led them to that moment, and all I could think about were the white people upstairs taking pictures of someone's life-altering spiritual journey so they could share them over brunch.
某种无名而神圣的东西引导他们来到了那一刻，我所能想到的就是楼上的白人拍摄某人改变生活的精神旅程的照片，以便他们可以在早午餐时分享。
It was really messing with my worship.
这真的扰乱了我的崇拜。
White tourists visiting black churches is a thing, especially in Harlem-- showing up for free music.
白人游客参观黑人教堂是一件很常见的事情，尤其是在哈莱姆区——他们会出现在免费音乐中。
It wasn't my first time hearing about it, but I had never experienced it before.
这不是我第一次听说，但我以前从未经历过。
Sure, there were some white congregants sprinkled throughout downstairs, but they're members.
当然，楼下散布着一些白人会众，但他们是会员。
For lack of a better phrase, they're invited to the cookout.
由于缺乏更好的措辞，他们被邀请参加野餐。
The tourists in the balcony-- they just want a song.
阳台上的游客——他们只是想要一首歌。
I kept going to this church every Sunday, but I felt like I was unwillingly participating in their gospel concert.
我每周日都去这个教堂，但我感觉自己不太情愿地参加他们的福音音乐会。
I struggled to focus on what mattered to me most, my own relationship with the big guy upstairs.
我很难专注于对我来说最重要的事情，即我自己与楼上大人物的关系。
I was navigating all that when I learned about the reviews.
当我了解到这些评论时，我正在浏览所有这些内容。
Tourists critique the church online, writing reviews on websites like Yelp and TripAdvisor.
游客们在 Yelp 和 TripAdvisor 等网站上在线评论这座教堂。
Some were fine, saying they loved the experience and thanked the church for welcoming outsiders.
有些人很好，说他们喜欢这次经历，并感谢教会欢迎外来者。
Others were not so nice.
其他人则不太好。
Quote, "The music was loud, repetitive, and vacuous.
引用：“音乐吵闹、重复且空洞。
Church is to elevate us to God, not bring him to human level." Two stars.
教会是为了将我们提升到上帝面前，而不是把他带到人类的水平。”两颗星。
From France, "This is a scam.
来自法国，“这是一个骗局。
The children singing are circus animals." One star.
唱歌的孩子们都是马戏团的动物。”一颗星。
From Italy, "Don't choose this place if you are expecting the gospel style of Sister Act." One star.
来自意大利，“如果你期待《修女法案》的福音风格，就不要选择这个地方。”一颗星。
And this one is meant to be a compliment, but I bristled.
这本来是一种恭维，但我很生气。
From Spain, "I will definitely repeat this experience if I go back to New York.
来自西班牙的“如果我回到纽约，我一定会重复这种经历。
Do not be afraid to go to Harlem on your own.
不要害怕独自去哈林区。
A lot of white people live there." Four stars.
很多白人住在那里。”四颗星。
Our worship was being graded on a gentrified curve.
我们的敬拜按照中产阶级曲线进行分级。
I got angry.
我生气了。
I don't like the tourists, but I do love the church.
我不喜欢游客，但我喜欢教堂。
It has the familiarity and the warmth that I grew up with, but none of the conservative, intolerant baggage, the kind that's hesitant to let women on deacon boards and has strict dress codes.
它有我成长过程中所伴随的熟悉和温暖，但没有那种保守、不宽容的包袱，那种对让女性进入执事委员会犹豫不决、有严格着装要求的包袱。
My old church was more insular, more of an old-school black Baptist space.
我的老教堂更加与世隔绝，更像是一个老式的黑人浸信会空间。
If you saw a white person during service, it required a whole quizzical discussion in the car ride home.
如果你在服役期间看到一个白人，就需要在开车回家的路上进行一场充满好奇的讨论。
Were they lost?
他们迷路了吗？
Were they someone's special friend?
他们是某人的特别朋友吗？
FCBC had none of that, and I found it liberating.
FCBC 没有这些，但我发现它解放了我。
So I kept going to the church.
于是我就继续去教堂。
I was going to make the best of it, but it wasn't easy.
我本想充分利用它，但这并不容易。
One recent Sunday at church, engrossed in a 15-minute rendition of "The Blood Will Never Lose Its Power," I swayed to the song and meditatively mouthed the words with the choir over and over again.
最近的一个周日，我在教堂全神贯注地演奏了 15 分钟的《鲜血永不失去力量》，随着这首歌摇摆着身体，并与唱诗班一起冥想地一遍又一遍地念出歌词。
I was losing myself and feeling God's presence when, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed it-- the glowing of phones in the dark, the older European man with the selfie stick, the backpack-laden tourists stepping out before the sermon, three or four at a time.
当我迷失自我并感受到上帝的存在时，我用眼角的余光注意到了这一点——黑暗中手机的发光，拿着自拍杆的欧洲老人，布道前背着背包走出去的游客，一次三四个。
--every single week, we want to just say welcome, welcome, welcome.
——每周，我们只想说欢迎，欢迎，欢迎。
We hope that you feel the power of God.
我们希望您感受到神的力量。
We hope that you feel that there is a shift happening in your life as well, and that you can begin to take that shift all across the globe to your own homes.
我们希望您感觉到您的生活也正在发生转变，并且您可以开始将这种转变带到全球各地您自己的家中。
And so FCBC, at this time, let us give our guests a warm welcome.
因此，此时此刻，FCBC 让我们热烈欢迎我们的客人。
Let's give them a hug and show them some love.
让我们给他们一个拥抱，向他们表达一些爱。
Amen.
阿门。
[APPLAUSE] Parker We hugged the visitors, as the church instructs us to do, during the welcome.
[掌声]帕克 在欢迎仪式上，我们按照教堂的指示拥抱了来访者。
And immediately afterwards, over 45 tourists upped and walked out before the sermon had even begun.
紧接着，布道还没开始，就有超过 45 名游客起身离开。
And all I could think was, the audacity.
我所能想到的就是，大胆。
So rude.
太粗鲁了。
And you've got to get up every morning and let the enemy know that you can't have my joy today.
而且你每天早上都要起床，让敌人知道你今天不能拥有我的喜乐。
It belongs to me.
它属于我。
Look at your neighbor and tell them, neighbor, I [INAUDIBLE].
看看你的邻居并告诉他们，邻居，我[听不清]。
Listening to the sermon, I felt torn and distracted by the tourists.
听着布道，我感到被游客撕裂和分散了注意力。
Why do they have to be there at all?
为什么他们必须在那里？
Why do I care so much?
我为什么这么关心？
I asked other congregants if having the tourists there ever made them feel uncomfortable, if they thought it was a bit odd, if they ever got self-conscious, or if it was only me.
我问其他会众，那里的游客是否让他们感到不舒服，他们是否认为这有点奇怪，他们是否感到难为情，或者是否只有我一个人。
One thought the tourists were fabulous.
有人认为游客很棒。
Another said they didn't think about it.
另一位则表示，他们没有考虑过这一点。
One woman said my not wanting them there was blasphemous.
一位女士说我不希望他们在那里是亵渎的。
So yeah, it seems like it was only me.
是的，看来只有我一个人这样。
It was confusing.
这很令人困惑。
Yes, I don't want the tourists there.
是的，我不希望那里有游客。
But what kind of Christian am I to be hating on people during a church service?
但我是一个什么样的基督徒，怎么能在教堂礼拜时憎恨别人呢？
So I went to the head of the church-- my pastor, Pastor Mike Walrund-- to ask, why are these tourists here?
所以我去找教会负责人——我的牧师迈克·瓦尔伦德牧师——问，为什么这些游客来这里？
Why are we letting this happen?
我们为什么要让这种事发生？
And how am I supposed to deal with it and see past it?
我该如何应对并超越它？
I don't necessarily think about wanting tourists.
我不一定会考虑想要游客。
We welcome everyone.
我们欢迎大家。
So I don't necessarily say, well, I want these people here, and I want those people.
所以我不一定说，嗯，我想要这些人在这里，我想要那些人。
Whoever comes, I celebrate.
无论谁来，我都会庆祝。
And then we're open.
然后我们就开放了。
So I know there are churches that have said that they wouldn't allow tourists, or, when they do, make the tourists pay a bunch of money to come in.
所以我知道有些教堂说他们不允许游客进入，或者当他们允许的时候，会让游客付一大笔钱才能进去。
They'll take their money, right?
他们会拿走他们的钱，对吗？
But for us, I think everyone here is a tourist.
但对于我们来说，我想这里的每个人都是游客。
And like I tell you, I know the power of the word, and how the word can spread, and how people can take what they hear here, and it goes places.
就像我告诉你的那样，我知道这个词的力量，知道这个词如何传播，以及人们如何接受他们在这里听到的内容，并让它传播开来。
Your words will go to places that you will never go.
你的话会到达你永远不会到达的地方。
And so that's how I always look at it.
所以我总是这样看待它。
It is an opportunity to spread this word, and to get the message out that we're doing, and expand and broaden our reach.
这是一个传播这一信息、传达我们正在做的事情、扩大我们的影响力的机会。
And sometimes, the people who expand and broaden our reach happen to be tourists.
有时，扩大我们影响力的人恰好是游客。
Pastor Mike also said my sensitivity about the tourists, though he understands it, is generationally different than the older black congregants, who perceive the optics of having, essentially, a section for white people in a more ironic way than I do.
迈克牧师还表示，我对游客的敏感度与年长的黑人会众不同，虽然他理解这一点，但他们对白人专区的看法比我更具讽刺意味。
And they see a lot of tourists who are predominantly white in the balcony, because they know history enough to know that that's different, because, historically, it was flipped.
他们在阳台上看到很多以白人为主的游客，因为他们足够了解历史，知道这是不同的，因为从历史上看，它被翻转了。
Well, that was a practice in this country for years, where African-Americans had to sit in the balcony and could not worship with white people, because African-Americans were relegated to the balcony and could not engage with worship experience.
嗯，这是这个国家多年来的做法，非裔美国人必须坐在阳台上，不能与白人一起礼拜，因为非裔美国人被降级到阳台上，无法参与礼拜体验。
He knows the tourists are not what everyone wants.
他知道游客并不是每个人都想要的。
But what Pastor Mike wants me to know is that the tourists aren't just in the balcony, and they aren't just white.
但迈克牧师想让我知道的是，游客不仅仅在阳台上，而且他们不仅仅是白人。
He says the balcony is for large groups of visitors, and they just happen to be European.
他说这个阳台是为大批游客准备的，而他们恰好是欧洲人。
He insists the largest number of tourists in the church aren't white.
他坚称教堂里最多的游客不是白人。
They're black.
他们是黑人。
They blend in, sitting down on the main floor with all of us.
他们融入其中，和我们一起坐在主楼层。
So he puts it back to me.
所以他把它还给我。
Is my problem with tourists or with white tourists?
我的问题是针对游客还是针对白人游客？
It's white tourists.
都是白人游客。
He tells me, don't be prejudiced.
他告诉我，不要有偏见。
It's wrong.
这是错误的。
If we start looking at people who enter our spaces of worship, and because they're strangers treating them-- and because they're obviously strangers because of the racial dimension, then we undermine ourselves as followers of the teachings of Jesus and as people who call ourselves Christians.
如果我们开始审视那些进入我们礼拜空间的人，因为他们对待他们是陌生人——而且因为他们在种族方面显然是陌生人，那么我们就会削弱自己作为耶稣教义的追随者和自称为基督徒的人的地位。
And I know that.
我知道这一点。
But I can't stop feeling exposed.
但我无法停止感觉自己被暴露了。
It looks the way it looks-- white people staring down on us praising God.
看起来就是这样——白人俯视着我们赞美上帝。
The optics are all wrong.
光学都是错误的。
It's I guess because I feel a certain protectiveness because of the shared experience that we have as black people and I feel protectiveness of you.
我想是因为我们作为黑人有共同的经历，所以我感到有一定的保护性，而且我对你们感到有保护性。
We are intoxicated by perceptions, and image, and optics.
我们被感知、图像和光学所陶醉。
And optics communicate no substance.
光学并不传达任何实质内容。
So the question is not what it appears.
所以问题不在于它看起来怎样。
The question is, do I care?
问题是，我在乎吗？
That's the real question.
这才是真正的问题。
And the answer is, no. I can't be consumed with people's perceptions of our space, because then I'll be trying to curtail what we do to respond to people's perceptions.
答案是，不。我不能沉迷于人们对我们空间的看法，因为那样我就会试图减少我们为回应人们的看法所做的事情。
No, that's not who we're called to be.
不，这不是我们被呼召的样子。
I can't.
我不能。
So the optics of it mean nothing to me.
所以它的光学对我来说毫无意义。
Pastor Mike knows what it looks like, making white people sit in a sectioned-off area.
迈克牧师知道让白人坐在一个隔离区域会是什么样子。
He knows it's provocative.
他知道这是挑衅。
But he's fine with it.
但他对此很满意。
It's not intended to be punishment.
这并不是为了惩罚。
But that doesn't answer my question.
但这并不能回答我的问题。
How do I block them out when I worship?
当我崇拜的时候，我该如何阻止它们？
When I worship, I engage God.
当我敬拜时，我与神接触。
I could care if it was one person or 2,000.
我不在乎是一个人还是两千人。
I don't care who's present.
我不在乎谁在场。
It's about me.
是关于我的。
And that moment is a sacred space.
那一刻是一个神圣的空间。
I do it in the presence of others who are celebrating God, but that's a sacred moment for me.
我在其他庆祝上帝的人面前这样做，但这对我来说是一个神圣的时刻。
And my sacred moment cannot be intruded upon by anybody, tourists or not.
我的神圣时刻不能被任何人打扰，无论游客与否。
Pastor Mike's words helped a little.
迈克牧师的话有点帮助。
I'm aspiring to a new level of clarity in my worship-- more like his.
我渴望在我的崇拜中达到一个新的清晰水平——更像他的。
But I'm still working on myself.
但我还在为自己努力。
I'm not there yet.
我还没到那儿。
I still don't want people there staring at us like we're all some source of entertainment for them.
我仍然不希望那里的人盯着我们看，好像我们都是他们的娱乐来源。
But going forward, I'm going to try to do what I can to get the tourists out of my mind and out of my way, starting with this review of FCBC from me, Parker from Baltimore.
但展望未来，我将尽我所能，让游客远离我的脑海和干扰，从我，来自巴尔的摩的帕克对 FCBC 的评论开始。
"Went to FCBC one Sunday, and then kept coming back.
“一个周日去了坚信天主教会，然后就不断地回来。
Helped me when I really needed it.
当我真正需要的时候帮助了我。
And if you're a tourist reading this and wonder what the black congregants think of you taking photos during baptisms and baby christenings, I, for one, don't love it.
如果你是一名游客，读到这篇文章，想知道黑人会众对你在洗礼和婴儿洗礼期间拍照有何看法，那么我个人不喜欢这样做。
Please stop.
请停下来。
Help make a great church better." Five stars.
帮助让一座伟大的教堂变得更好。”五颗星。
B.A.
学士
Parker in New York.
帕克在纽约。
If you google the First Corinthian Baptist Church, it'll take you to their website-- FCBC NYC-- where there are videos of sermons, and guest speakers, and all sorts of other stuff.
如果你用谷歌搜索第一哥林多浸信会教堂，它会带你到他们的网站——FCBC NYC——那里有布道视频、演讲嘉宾以及各种其他内容。
I think we are not going to give you their address.
我想我们不会给你他们的地址。
Coming up, a story about somebody who is studiously trying not to give a review.
接下来是一个关于某人故意不发表评论的故事。
I think it's not too much to say that his very freedom depends on that.
我认为说他的自由取决于此并不过分。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
This American Life.
这美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Everyone's a Critic-- tales from a world where everything gets rated and reviewed.
今天的节目《人人都是批评家》——来自一个一切都会被评级和审查的世界的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show, Act Two, Mr. Chen Goes to Wuhan.
我们的节目已经到了第二幕，第二幕，陈先生去武汉。
So this next story is about somebody who's studiously trying not to be a critic because of where he lives and what he's doing.
因此，下一个故事是关于一个人，他刻意努力不因为自己的住所和所做的事情而成为批评者。
His name is Chen Cho Qiushi, and he lives in China.
他的名字叫陈卓秋实，住在中国。
And he's been going around that country to the most controversial places-- places that are the most sensitive, as far as the Chinese government is concerned, including the city at the center of the coronavirus epidemic.
他一直在这个国家周围最有争议的地方——对中国政府而言最敏感的地方，包括位于冠状病毒流行中心的城市。
Chen shows up, looks around, gathers information, and posts videos online with the truth of what he's found, which is risky, because China, of course, is an authoritarian country with a tight grip on information and total control over the media.
陈出现，环顾四周，收集信息，并在网上发布他所发现的真相的视频，这是有风险的，因为中国当然是一个对信息严格控制并完全控制媒体的威权国家。
The government's version of reality is what's reported in newspapers, on TV, and online.
政府对现实的描述是报纸、电视和网络上的报道。
Inside China, it's hard to get foreign news sources, which is why, when Chen does all this, he tries very hard not to be a critic, not to venture an opinion.
在中国国内，很难获得外国新闻来源，这就是为什么当陈做这一切时，他非常努力地不去批评，不发表意见。
Reporter Jiayang Fan has been watching his videos with fascination for a while now.
记者范嘉阳已经入迷地观看他的视频一段时间了。
I've been writing about China for years.
多年来我一直在写有关中国的文章。
I'm from there, and I've never seen anyone like Chen.
我是那里人，我从来没有见过像陈这样的人。
This guy wasn't a professional reporter or political activist, as far as I know.
据我所知，这个人不是专业记者或政治活动家。
He was just a guy from the mainland who read about the Hong Kong protests in the state papers and wondered, is that the whole story?
他只是一个来自大陆的人，在国家报纸上读到香港抗议活动后想知道，这就是故事的全部吗？
What's really happening?
到底发生了什么？
And went to see for himself.
并亲自去看了看。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan In this video, shot on the waterfront in Hong Kong, he's saying, "I want to see, with my naked eye, what's happening on the ground.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 在这段在香港海滨拍摄的视频中，他说：“我想用肉眼看看地面上正在发生什么。
I want to bear witness to the stories of the people on the ground." Chen's a talented talker, a 30-something guy with very expressive eyebrows.
我想见证当地人民的故事。”陈先生是个很有口才的人，三十多岁，眉毛很有表现力。
He's running all over the city in a yellow press vest he bought after he saw online that reporters wore them at protests.
他在网上看到记者在抗议活动中穿着黄色记者背心后，就买了这件黄色记者背心跑遍了整个城市。
He's a lawyer who is into public speaking.
他是一名热衷于公开演讲的律师。
A couple years back, he was in a reality TV speech competition, kind of like The Voice for nerds.
几年前，他参加了一场真人秀演讲比赛，有点像书呆子之声。
That was his first brush with being a public person.
那是他第一次接触作为公众人物。
His videos sort of feel like an extension of that speech competition.
他的视频有点像演讲比赛的延伸。
Instead of talking and explaining things on a stage, he's doing it out in the world.
他不是在舞台上谈论和解释事情，而是在世界上实践。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan In Hong Kong, Chen's coverage is painstakingly neutral.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 在香港，陈的报道煞费苦心地保持中立。
He goes to a pro-democracy protest, and also to a pro-Beijing rally.
他参加了一场支持民主的抗议活动，也参加了一场支持北京的集会。
At both, he tries to estimate the crowd size and the age of the participants.
在这两次活动中，他都试图估计人群规模和参与者的年龄。
He spends one video explaining subtle differences between factions of the movement.
他用一段视频解释了运动派系之间的微妙差异。
At no point does he hint at his own political stance.
他在任何时候都没有暗示自己的政治立场。
In fact, he emphasizes that he will not take a side.
事实上，他强调他不会偏袒任何一方。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan He's saying, "I will try my best to put my prejudice aside and stay neutral about what I see." This neutrality thing is important, because, across China, most people support, or at least go along with, the party.
[中文] 何嘉阳说：“我会尽力抛开偏见，对我所看到的保持中立。”这种中立性很重要，因为在中国各地，大多数人都支持，或者至少是赞同共产党。
They're skeptical of people who defy the government.
他们对反抗政府的人持怀疑态度。
Those people are seen as troublemakers and dissidents.
这些人被视为麻烦制造者和持不同政见者。
They're regarded with suspicion, and their ideas are easily dismissed.
他们受到怀疑，他们的想法很容易被驳回。
Chen didn't want to be dismissed.
陈不想被解雇。
But what's more, he didn't act like a dissident.
但更重要的是，他的行为并不像持不同政见者。
He quotes a state newspaper as inspiration for his trip and declares his loyalty to China.
他引用一份官方报纸作为他此行的灵感，并宣称他对中国的忠诚。
Watching him, he seemed genuinely curious about the things he was witnessing and completely sincere.
看着他，他似乎对自己所目睹的一切感到真正的好奇，而且非常真诚。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan His videos from Hong Kong reached hundreds of thousands of people on Weibo, the Chinese version of Twitter.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 他在香港发布的视频在微博（中国版的推特）上吸引了数十万人。
As soon as I saw them, I wanted to talk to him, though I wasn't sure how hard he would be to reach because his last video hinted that he might be in trouble.
我一看到他们，就想和他说话，尽管我不确定联系到他有多难，因为他的最后一个视频暗示他可能遇到了麻烦。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan It's shot from the airport.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 在机场拍摄的。
In it, he says the Chinese Bar Association, the Public Security Bureau, and the Ministry of Justice have all called him telling him to come back and stop this nonsense.
他在信中说，中国律师协会、公安局和司法部都给他打电话，让他回来停止这种胡言乱语。
At one point, he holds up his law license, saying he knows he may very well lose it after these three days in Hong Kong.
有一次，他举起了律师执照，说他知道在香港三天后他很可能会失去律师执照。
Once he got home, all of his social media accounts were deleted, and his videos were purged from the Chinese internet.
他一回到家，他所有的社交媒体账户就被删除，他的视频也从中国互联网上被清除。
But he wasn't hard to reach.
但他并不难接近。
When I got his number, he picked up right away.
当我拿到他的电话号码后，他立即接听了。
He was little flustered.
他有点慌张。
He explained he was in the middle of a family situation.
他解释说他正处于家庭困境之中。
His mom found out about his reporting adventure from a cousin's classmate, freaked out, and traveled hundreds of miles to his doorstep, and moved in with him.
他的妈妈从表弟的同学那里得知了他的报道经历，吓坏了，不远万里来到他家门口，搬去和他住在一起。
He was funny about it.
他对此感到很有趣。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter We've been living together for over 20 days, and it's been kind of awkward.
[说中文] 翻译 我们已经同居20多天了，感觉有点尴尬。
She follows me wherever I go.
无论我走到哪里她都跟着我。
Just now, when I came down to take your call, she ran after me to the elevator.
刚才我下楼接你电话的时候，她就追着我往电梯里跑。
That's why I was kind of bummed when I answered.
这就是为什么当我回答的时候我有点沮丧。
Chen's mother was there to save him from himself, he explained, less he decided to go off once again and try something reckless.
他解释说，陈的母亲是来救他的，但他决定再次离开并尝试鲁莽的事情。
His mom kept watch on him 24/7.
他妈妈 24/7 全天候看护他。
During the day, she did not let him out of her sight.
白天，她没有让他离开自己的视线。
At night, they shared his twin-sized bed.
晚上，他们共用他的单人床。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter Yeah, I'm uncomfortable, but there's no way around it.
[说中文] 翻译 是的，我很不舒服，但是没有办法解决。
It's the only way she feels safe.
这是她感到安全的唯一方式。
This all sounded very familiar to me.
这一切对我来说听起来很熟悉。
I have a mother like this, too.
我也有这样的妈妈。
Chen's 34, just a year younger than me.
陈今年34岁，只比我小一岁。
We both grew up as only children in '80s China.
我们都是在八十年代的中国长大的独生子。
Our mothers have both expressed to us that if anything were to happen to us, they would lose the very will to live.
我们的母亲都向我们表示，如果我们出了什么事，她们就会失去活下去的意愿。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter The hardest thing to deal with is the effects on my family and loved ones.
[说中文] 翻译 最难处理的是对我的家人和亲人的影响。
That's what pulled Chen back from his trip to Hong Kong-- not because he was worried for himself, but because of the risk of complicating other people's lives.
这就是陈先生放弃香港之行的原因——不是因为他为自己担心，而是因为担心会让其他人的生活变得复杂化。
China was safe, he told me.
他告诉我，中国很安全。
But he'd been let go from his law firm, and he had been interrogated repeatedly.
但他已被律师事务所解雇，并多次受到审问。
On the day he arrived back from Hong Kong, he'd been grilled for eight hours straight.
从香港回来的那天，他就被连续拷问了八个小时。
He had to run through every detail of where he was each day.
他必须仔细检查自己每天在哪里的每一个细节。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter Then they took me through reeducation on the policies of the Communist Party, how the government has a certain perspective about Hong Kong.
[说中文] 翻译 然后他们带我接受了关于共产党政策的再教育，政府对香港有什么看法。
They said, because I was a lawyer, I should support the Communist Party and its decisions, and I shouldn't go against them, shouldn't go to certain places, and so on, and so on.
他们说，因为我是一名律师，所以我应该支持共产党及其决定，我不应该反对他们，不应该去某些地方等等，等等。
Then they took on a very parental tone.
然后他们就表现出了非常父母般的语气。
They said, we're doing this because we care about you.
他们说，我们这样做是因为我们关心你。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter You're a young guy with a bright future ahead of you.
[说中文] 翻译 你是一个前途光明的年轻人。
You've won so many speech and debate prizes when you were young.
你年轻时赢得过很多演讲和辩论奖项。
You've appeared in so many TV shows.
你出现在很多电视节目中。
You've posted such great content and videos to social media.
您已在社交媒体上发布了如此精彩的内容和视频。
We think you're really talented.
我们认为你真的很有才华。
We're lucky to have such a great local lawyer.
我们很幸运有这样一位出色的当地律师。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter But then you went to Hong Kong and jeopardized all of that.
[说中文] 翻译 但后来你去了香港，危及了这一切。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter Are you married?
[说中文] 翻译 你结婚了吗？
Look at you.
看看你。
You're over 30, and you haven't married yet.
你已经30多岁了，还没有结婚。
Your parents must be so anxious.
你的父母一定很着急吧。
People need to prioritize families.
人们需要优先考虑家庭。
You need to start a family and have kids.
你需要组建家庭并生孩子。
That's the only way to have a normal life.
只有这样才能过上正常的生活。
So don't let your parents worry.
所以不要让你的父母担心。
You need to hurry up and get that straightened out.
你需要快点把事情弄清楚。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter So for a full day, from 9:00 in the morning to 5:00 in the evening, it would just be that.
[说中文] 翻译 那么一整天，从早上 9:00 到晚上 5:00，就这样了。
They were using different tactics like that, trying to tell me why going to Hong Kong was wrong.
他们用这样不同的策略，试图告诉我为什么去香港是错误的。
But Chen wasn't that troubled by the questioning.
但陈并没有因为这些问题而感到困扰。
He had been scrupulously neutral when he was in Hong Kong, and he believed that would protect him, and things would not get worse than this.
他在香港的时候一直保持着中立，他相信这样可以保护他，事情不会变得比现在更糟糕。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter So I think it's because I worked so hard to be neutral and to not support or lean towards one side or the other that I was able to stay safe.
[说中文] 口译员 所以我认为，正是因为我努力保持中立，不支持或偏向某一方，所以我才能够保持安全。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan I asked him the question that had been on my mind all this time.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 我问了他这个我一直在想的问题。
Why did he do it?
他为什么这么做？
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter It's just a passion.
[说中文] 翻译 这只是一种激情。
Sometimes people say, oh, that was so brave of you.
有时人们会说，哦，你真勇敢。
You've risked so much in the pursuit of truth.
为了追求真理，你冒了很大的风险。
I hate that.
我讨厌那样。
This has nothing to do with bravery.
这与勇敢无关。
It's just a hobby.
这只是一个爱好。
You have guys out there who like watches.
那里有喜欢手表的人。
You have guys who like to fix up their cars, people who like to hike or to ski.
有些人喜欢修理汽车，有些人喜欢徒步旅行或滑雪。
This is my hobby.
这是我的爱好。
My hobby is engaging with and pursuing the news.
我的爱好是参与和追踪新闻。
It's just something I'm interested in.
这只是我感兴趣的事情。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan I can almost see him shrugging on the other side of the line.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 我几乎可以看到他在电话那头耸耸肩。
Chen sees himself as a curious guy collecting facts.
陈认为自己是一个好奇的人，喜欢收集事实。
He's not out to issue any kind of review.
他不会发表任何形式的评论。
He's not trying to provoke or antagonize.
他并不是想挑衅或对抗。
The way he talks about his videos, it's like they're an intellectual exercise more than anything else.
从他谈论视频的方式来看，它们更像是一种智力练习。
I'm surprised by how blasé he is about the project, given the cost to his regular life.
考虑到他的正常生活所付出的代价，我对他对这个项目如此厌倦感到惊讶。
I wonder if there's more to it, if his composure is a kind of armor-- the one thing he can control.
我想知道是否还有更多的原因，如果他的镇定是一种盔甲——他能控制的唯一的东西。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan A few months later, in late January, I do a double take when I see a video that Chen posts from the train station in Wuhan.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 几个月后，一月下旬，当我看到陈在武汉火车站发布的一段视频时，我不由得愣住了。
It's the city at the center of the coronavirus epidemic.
这是冠状病毒流行的中心城市。
Apparently, he had grabbed his selfie stick and hopped on the last train in as the government put the city on lockdown.
显然，当政府封锁这座城市时，他抓起了自拍杆，跳上了最后一班火车。
It's startling that he's there, because access to the city has been severely restricted and heavily enforced.
令人惊讶的是他在那里，因为进入这座城市受到严格限制和严格执法。
There are very few news sources on the ground at this time.
目前，当地的新闻来源很少。
No one dares to go outside, and many shops are closed.
没有人敢出去，很多商店都关门了。
Chen is his usual energetic, high-spirited self, sneaking in jokes along with the information.
陈还是一如既往的精力充沛、意气风发，一边听着信息一边偷偷地讲笑话。
He's bewildered by all the elderly people he saw on his trip who still weren't wearing face masks.
他对旅途中看到的所有没有戴口罩的老人感到困惑。
Are they insane?
他们疯了吗？
He asks.
他问道。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan As their kids, we should force them to put on masks with the same energy they exude when pushing us to get married, he says.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 作为他们的孩子，我们应该强迫他们戴上面具，就像催促我们结婚时所散发出的能量一样，他说。
I watched the video on YouTube where Chen now has a channel and almost half a million followers.
我在 YouTube 上观看了该视频，陈现在在 YouTube 上拥有一个频道和近 50 万粉丝。
It's a website that's banned in China.
这是一个在中国被禁止的网站。
You can only access it if you hop the firewall, which many people do.
只有跳过防火墙才能访问它，很多人都会这样做。
Some of them take his videos and spread them on Chinese social media.
其中一些人拍摄了他的视频并在中国社交媒体上传播。
Over the next few days, Chen goes on a tear through the city.
接下来的几天里，陈继续在这座城市里穿行。
He reports from the market, where a number of early cases surfaced, from a grocery store, from a funeral parlor, from the construction site for a hospital that's being built almost overnight.
他从市场报道，那里出现了一些早期病例，来自一家杂货店、一家殡仪馆、一家几乎在一夜之间建成的医院的建筑工地。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Outside a hospital one night, after hearing that the virus might be transmittable through the eyes, he films a video wearing a comically ill-fitting pair of swim goggles.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 一天晚上，在医院外面，听说病毒可能通过眼睛传播后，他戴着一副不合身的泳镜拍摄了一段视频。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan There's a video shot from the front seat of a car, where he's chatting with the four people piled in with him, asking if they have enough food stocked up at home.
[中文] 范嘉阳 有一段视频是在车的前座拍摄的，他正在和挤在他身边的四个人聊天，询问他们家里储备的食物是否足够。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan The guy in the front has six months stored.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 前面的家伙已经储存了六个月。
He'd been preparing a long time for a food shortage, though he thought it would be from a trade war with America, not a virus.
他长期以来一直在为粮食短缺做准备，尽管他认为这可能是由于与美国的贸易战而不是病毒造成的。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Chen goofs around with the driver, practicing his Wuhan dialect.
[说中文]嘉阳范陈和司机闲聊，练习着他的武汉话。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan But he also spends time doing long interviews with locals, drawing out intimate details of people's lives and their honest appraisals of the ongoing crisis.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 但他也花时间对当地人进行长时间采访，了解人们生活的私密细节以及他们对当前危机的诚实评价。
One night, Chen hosts a livestream interview with a middle aged man who goes by the pseudonym Ah Ming.
一天晚上，陈对一位化名阿明的中年男子进行了直播采访。
Ah Ming's father had recently died.
阿明的父亲最近去世了。
He tells Chen that his father had gone to the hospital for a routine physical in early January.
他告诉陈，他的父亲一月初去医院做过例行体检。
He was in his 70s and healthy.
他70多岁了，身体健康。
He couldn't have known then that the hospital was also seeing patients infected with the mysterious pneumonia.
他当时不可能知道医院里也收治着感染神秘肺炎的病人。
Soon after, his father developed a fever that wouldn't go away.
不久之后，他的父亲发高烧不退。
Ah Ming details the frantic search for treatment in the final weeks of his father's life, how, because there wasn't adequate equipment at the hospital, he had to spend a whole night pressing his father's leaky oxygen mask in place.
阿明详细描述了他父亲在生命的最后几周疯狂寻求治疗的过程，由于医院没有足够的设备，他不得不花一整晚的时间将父亲漏气的氧气面罩固定到位。
He talks about the time a sudden lockdown at the hospital separated panicked family members, from their loved ones for 48 hours.
他谈到了有一次医院突然封锁，惊慌失措的家人与亲人被隔离了 48 小时。
It's difficult to listen to Ah Ming describe his father's last day.
很难听阿明描述他父亲的最后一天。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter I saw, with my own eyes, as his heart rate dropped from 120 to 0.
[说中文]翻译 我亲眼看到他的心率从120降到了0。
I held his hand and saw this happen.
我握着他的手，目睹了这一切的发生。
It was painful.
很痛苦。
He was in a deep coma already.
他已经处于深度昏迷状态。
When they took off his oxygen mask, his mouth was still open.
当他们摘下他的氧气面罩时，他的嘴仍然张着。
He suffocated to death.
他窒息而死。
Ah Ming says he doesn't understand why the government didn't start alerting people back in December to wear masks.
阿明说，他不明白为什么政府没有在去年 12 月就开始提醒人们戴口罩。
He wonders why the state media didn't cover the outbreak more thoroughly.
他想知道为什么官方媒体没有更彻底地报道疫情。
If measures had been taken earlier, he says, my father wouldn't have died.
他说，如果早点采取措施，我父亲就不会死。
A few days into Chen's trip, his own parents send him a video.
陈旅行几天后，他的父母给他发了一段视频。
They're sitting on a couch, looking like they're trying very hard not to mess up the complicated process of FaceTiming their son.
他们坐在沙发上，看起来正在努力不搞乱与儿子进行 FaceTime 通话的复杂过程。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan We heard you went to Wuhan, he says.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 我们听说你去了武汉，他说。
Apparently, Chen has, yet again, failed to inform his parents he was going on a reporting trip.
显然，陈再次没有通知他的父母他要去报道旅行。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan His dad gruffly chides him, then tells him to do a good job and not to make trouble while he's there.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 他爸爸粗暴地责备了他，然后告诉他要做好工作，不要在他那里闹事。
His mom peers into the frame.
他的妈妈凝视着画面。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan We support you, she says.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 我们支持你，她说。
But be safe, OK?
但注意安全，好吗？
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Chen continues making videos for the next few days, and they're pretty grim.
[说中文] 嘉阳范陈接下来几天继续制作视频，视频相当严峻。
He posts one from inside a hospital, covertly filmed while pretending to call someone.
他在医院内发布了一张假装打电话给某人时被秘密拍摄的照片。
The patients and their family members are bundled up in heavy winter coats and blankets.
病人和他们的家人都裹着厚厚的冬衣和毯子。
Almost everyone is attached to IV tubes and oxygen bottles.
几乎每个人都附有静脉注射管和氧气瓶。
As his camera darts unsteadily through the room, there's a suffocating claustrophobia.
当他的相机摇摇晃晃地穿过房间时，有一种令人窒息的幽闭恐惧症。
In another video, Chen comes across an elderly patient in his wheelchair-- gray, limp, unmoving.
在另一段视频中，陈遇到一位坐在轮椅上的老年患者——面色苍白，四肢无力，一动不动。
A relative leans on the chair, holding his body up.
一位亲戚靠在椅子上，撑着身体。
As he films, Chen realizes the patient is dead.
当他拍摄时，陈意识到病人已经死了。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan The woman explains, through her face mask, that the ambulance arrived too late to save him.
[中文] 范嘉阳 这位女士透过面罩解释说，救护车来得太晚，无法救他。
Now she was trying to figure out what to do with the body.
现在她正在思考如何处理尸体。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan There's a clip of a medical worker in a hospital parking lot.
[中文] 范嘉阳 有一个视频是一名医务人员在医院停车场。
She's squatting by a car, crying into her phone.
她蹲在车旁，对着手机哭泣。
A colleague tells her it's not that serious, and she stands up, shaking with anger.
一位同事告诉她，情况没那么严重，她站了起来，气得浑身发抖。
I've been coughing for six days, she screams.
“我已经咳嗽六天了，”她尖叫道。
Don't you dare tell me it's not serious.
你敢告诉我这并不严重吗？
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan For nearly a week, Chen has been posting videos from a city teetering on the edge of a breakdown.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 近一周来，陈一直在发布一个在崩溃边缘摇摇欲坠的城市的视频。
For nearly a week, he has watched from the sideline-- observing, listening, studiously reserving judgment.
近一周来，他一直在场边观察、观察、倾听，并刻意保留判断力。
But then, on January 30, when he appears on screen, he isn't reporting.
但随后，1 月 30 日，当他出现在屏幕上时，他并没有报道。
Instead--
相反——
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan He's alone, hunched on a bed, wearing a tank top with what looks like a bedsheet wrapped around his shoulders.
[说中文] 范嘉阳独自一人，弯腰驼背地躺在床上，穿着一件背心，肩膀上裹着一条看起来像床单的东西。
His face is pale, and his hair is uncombed.
他的脸色苍白，头发也没有梳理。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan It's a 27-minute video, much longer than his regular ones.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 这是一个27分钟的视频，比他平常的视频要长得多。
He plays several recap clips, talks about what he's seen.
他播放了几个回顾片段，谈论他所看到的。
But he isn't his usual charismatic self.
但他不再是平时那种有魅力的人了。
Something's off.
出了什么问题。
When he's talking about the shortage of virus test kits, he seethes with contempt.
当他谈到病毒检测试剂盒短缺时，他满脸轻蔑。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Did you hear that?
[说中文] 范嘉阳 你听到了吗？
There aren't enough test kits, he says.
他说，没有足够的测试套件。
He counts off all of the dysfunctions he's witnessed in the past week, from the lack of transport to the shortage of supplies, the piles of unsorted donations, the overworked construction workers.
他数出了过去一周所目睹的所有障碍，从交通缺乏到物资短缺，成堆的未分类捐款，以及过度劳累的建筑工人。
The sheer volume of dysfunctions-- dysfunctions that gesture at larger failures of the government-- overwhelms Chen as he speaks.
陈先生讲话时，大量的功能失调——这些功能失调表明政府更大的失败——让他不知所措。
A jittery energy courses through him.
一股紧张的能量流过他的全身。
He keeps trying to reset, will himself back into a state of collected calm.
他不断地尝试重置，让自己回到平静的状态。
But it's not working.
但这不起作用。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter OK, let's keep going.
[说中文] 翻译 好的，我们继续。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter Sorry, my thoughts are really disorganized, because I'm starting to feel afraid.
[说中文] 翻译 抱歉，我的思绪真的很混乱，因为我开始感到害怕了。
I'm genuinely starting to feel afraid.
我真的开始感到害怕了。
The Ministry of Justice is after him-- calling him, he tells us.
他告诉我们，司法部正在追捕他——给他打电话。
The police, too.
警察也是。
They've been questioning his parents.
他们一直在质问他的父母。
Suddenly, the video takes a turn.
突然，视频一转。
The terror in his eyes hardens into something like rage.
他眼中的恐惧变成了类似愤怒的东西。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter I am scared.
[说中文] 翻译 我很害怕。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter In front of me is the virus.
[说中文] 翻译 在我面前的是病毒。
Behind me is the power of China's law enforcement.
我的背后是中国执法力量。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter But I will persevere.
[说中文] 翻译 但我会坚持下去。
As long as I am still alive, I'm going to keep reporting.
只要我还活着，我就会继续报道。
I'm going to tell people what I see and what I hear.
我将告诉人们我所看到的和我所听到的。
The last minute of the video feels like it's happening in slow motion.
视频的最后一分钟感觉像是慢动作发生的。
Chen's face, which is small and delicate, grows red, swollen, and crazed.
陈小而精致的脸，变得红肿、疯狂。
They are excruciating seconds when his eyes fill up as he speaks through clenched teeth.
当他咬紧牙关说话时，眼睛里充满了泪水，那是令人难以忍受的几秒钟。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter I'll just say it harshly.
[说中文] 翻译 我就严厉地说一下。
[BLEEP] [SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter [BLEEP] you.
[BLEEP] [说中文] 翻译 [BLEEP] 你。
I'm not even afraid of dying.
我连死都不怕。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Interpreter Do you think I'm afraid of you, Chinese Communist Party?
[说中文]翻译你以为我怕你中国共产党吗？
As the video ends, I realize I've stopped breathing.
视频结束时，我意识到我已经停止了呼吸。
Chen's gone way past the line that he fought so hard not to cross.
陈已经远远超出了他竭尽全力才不跨越的界限。
For as long as I had known him, being a respectable journalist, the kind he aspired to be, meant gathering facts without taking a side.
自从我认识他以来，作为一名受人尊敬的记者（他渴望成为的那种记者）就意味着收集事实而不偏袒任何一方。
But here in Wuhan, the facts must have added up to a reality so horrifying that a judgment was demanded.
但在武汉，事实肯定已经变得如此可怕，以至于需要做出判决。
The next day, Chen posts a video apologizing for losing his cool.
第二天，陈发布了一段视频，为自己失去冷静而道歉。
He goes back to reporter mode, standing outside the apartment of a family whose mother had died that morning to see how long it takes for the funeral home car to come.
他回到了记者模式，站在一户人家的公寓外，他们的母亲那天早上去世了，想看看殡仪馆的车需要多长时间才能到达。
He's there for an hour.
他在那里待了一个小时。
It never comes.
它永远不会到来。
He keeps reporting.
他不断地报告。
A week later, a video shows up on Chen's timeline.
一周后，一段视频出现在陈的时间线上。
It's not him.
不是他。
It's his mother.
这是他的母亲。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan She looks tired, and strands of her permed hair have fallen out of a loose ponytail.
[说中文] 范佘嘉阳看起来很疲惫，烫过的头发从松散的马尾辫上掉了下来。
Her message is short.
她的信息很短。
Chen has gone missing.
陈某失踪了。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Help me.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 帮帮我。
Please help me find Chen, she says.
请帮我找到陈，她说。
Please help.
请帮忙。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Jiayang Fan Thank you.
[说中文] 范嘉阳 谢谢。
Chen's been silent ever since then.
从此以后，陈先生就一直沉默不语。
He had given his social media passwords to friends in case he disappeared.
他已将社交媒体密码告诉了朋友，以防他失踪。
One friend says that the police told his parents he'd been put in a medical quarantine.
一位朋友说，警方告诉他的父母，他已被隔离。
But people in quarantine are usually allowed to keep their phones and to stay in touch with people outside.
但被隔离的人通常可以保留手机并与外面的人保持联系。
No one's heard from Chen.
没有人收到陈的消息。
It's been 22 days.
已经22天了。
Chen, who tried so strenuously to avoid becoming a political dissident, is now being treated like one.
陈曾极力避免成为一名政治异见人士，但现在却被当作异见人士对待。
Of everything that's happened to him, I suspect what would pain Chen the most is the sight of his mother looking exhausted and afraid on video, pleading for his return.
在发生在他身上的所有事情中，我怀疑最让陈痛苦的是在视频中看到他的母亲看起来疲惫而害怕，恳求他回来。
Jiayang Fan.
范嘉阳.
She's a staff writer at The New Yorker.
她是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人。
Act Three, Must Love Cats.
第三幕，一定要爱猫。
In a way, it was comforting that, in these dark and divisive times, there was one thing that fractured America could agree on this past year-- the movie Cats, based on the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical.
在某种程度上，令人欣慰的是，在这个黑暗和分裂的时代，在过去的一年里，破碎的美国在一件事情上达成了一致——改编自安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯音乐剧的电影《猫》。
And what everybody agreed was that it was trash.
每个人都同意这是垃圾。
Variety called it, quote, "A half-digested hairball of a movie." Collider said it, quote, "always feels like it's two seconds away from turning into a furry orgy in a dumpster." But one of the producers on our program, Lina Misitzis, found one of the very few people who felt differently than every living reviewer everywhere.
《综艺》杂志称其为“一部半消化的电影”。引用科利德的话来说，“总感觉距离变成垃圾箱里的毛茸茸的狂欢只有两秒钟的时间。”但我们节目的制作人之一莉娜·米西齐斯 (Lina Misitzis) 发现，她是极少数与世界各地活着的评论家感受不同的人之一。
Somebody who loved the film, which, actually, kind of became a problem in her house.
一个喜欢这部电影的人，实际上，这成了她家里的一个问题。
Here's Lina.
这是莉娜。
One of the many problems with Cats-- it doesn't really have a plot.
《猫》的众多问题之一就是它没有真正的情节。
But to EJ Dixon, it all makes perfect sense.
但对于 EJ Dixon 来说，这一切都非常有意义。
A bunch of cats, known as Jellicle cats, are auditioning to be the cat selected in sort of this cultic ritual to ascend to the Heaviside layer and be reborn.
一群被称为杰利克猫的猫正在试镜，希望成为在这种仪式中被选中的猫，以提升到亥维赛层并获得重生。
And so the show is just cats auditioning one after the other to be the one selected.
所以这个节目只是猫一只接一只地试镜以被选中。
They audition to die is basically what they do.
他们基本上就是在试镜去死。
Everything about the film that alienated people-- the weird CGI, the clumsy writing, the bizarre choreography, Jason Derulo-- none of it alienates EJ, which, honestly, doesn't surprise me.
这部电影中所有让人疏远的东西——怪异的电脑图像、笨拙的写作、怪异的编舞、杰森·德鲁洛——都没有疏远EJ，老实说，这并不让我感到惊讶。
I've known EJ for years.
我认识EJ很多年了。
She's a reporter at Rolling Stone.
她是《滚石》杂志的记者。
She's always struck me as dogged, someone who perpetually bears witness to the things other people don't really want to take seriously.
她总是给我留下顽强的印象，她永远见证着别人不想认真对待的事情。
Things that are widely misunderstood or understood differently-- I always want to know, what's the other story here?
那些被广泛误解或理解不同的事情——我总是想知道，这里的另一个故事是什么？
With Cats, it was very obvious, from the second that I saw it, this is going to be-- everybody's going to call this the worst movie ever made.
对于《猫》，很明显，从我看到它的那一刻起，这将是——每个人都会称其为有史以来最糟糕的电影。
But it's also just-- it's very earnest-- this sort of very simple, earnest story about the importance of inclusion.
但这也是一个非常真诚的故事，讲述了包容性的重要性。
Right.
正确的。
The cats learn a lesson about inclusion.
猫们学到了包容的教训。
Left that out.
把它排除在外。
No. I'm telling you.
不，我告诉你。
It's the same reason why I like musicals in general, because it's a way for me to sort of access the parts of myself that aren't sort of coded in cynicism and aren't automatically skeptical of everything and questioning everything.
这和我喜欢音乐剧的原因是一样的，因为这是一种让我了解自己的方式，让我了解自己的部分，而不是愤世嫉俗地编码，并且不会自动怀疑一切并质疑一切。
It's one of the ways that I can sort of experience the most earnest parts of myself, I guess.
我想，这是我能够体验自己最真诚的部分的方式之一。
And when she saw Cats, that's how she responded to it-- earnestly.
当她看到猫时，她就是这样回应的——真诚的。
She couldn't get it out of her head.
她无法将它从脑海中抹去。
The day after I saw Cats, my husband was taking a shower, and I went in, and I was like, I just need to talk to you about this.
我看到猫的第二天，我丈夫正在洗澡，我进去了，我想，我只是需要和你谈谈这件事。
Sorry.
对不起。
While he's in the shower, you go into the bathroom and start talking about Cats?
当他洗澡的时候，你走进浴室开始谈论猫？
Yes.
是的。
I was just talking at him about Cats.
我刚才正在和他谈论猫。
I was just like, and then this is what the CGI looked like, and here's what Old Deuteronomy did.
我当时就想，这就是 CGI 的样子，这就是 Old Deuteronomy 所做的。
And oh, my God.
哦，天啊。
They had Ian McKellen lapping up milk.
他们让伊恩·麦克莱恩（Ian McKellen）舔牛奶。
And at the end, Judi Dench breaks the fourth wall, and she says, a cat is not a dog.
最后，朱迪·丹奇打破了第四面墙，她说，猫不是狗。
And I just need to tell you this, because I don't know how to make sense of it.
我只需要告诉你这一点，因为我不知道如何理解它。
Constantly, constantly.
不断地，不断地。
Lina Misitzis How often was she talking about it?
Lina Misitzis 她多久谈论一次这件事？
This is EJ's husband, Alex.
这是 EJ 的丈夫 Alex。
He looks like Greg Kinnear in the movies were Greg Kinnear is the good guy.
他看起来就像电影中的格雷格·金尼尔，格雷格·金尼尔是好人。
Also, he looks really tired.
而且，他看起来真的很累。
But he's kind.
但他很善良。
Maybe after the first day or two.
也许在第一天或两天之后。
It became clear that this was a new obsession and it was here to stay.
很明显，这是一种新的痴迷，并且它将持续下去。
Sorry for myself.
为我自己感到抱歉。
Lina Misitzis What are the kinds of things that she talks to you about when she talks about this movie?
Lina Misitzis 当她和你谈论这部电影时，她会谈论哪些事情？
Things about the producers that I can't even remember, how much money Andrew Lloyd Webber made, and how much more wealthy he is than Paul McCartney, which kind of astounded me.
关于制片人的事情我什至不记得了，安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯赚了多少钱，他比保罗·麦卡特尼富有多少，这让我感到震惊。
Is this the kind of thing where you immediately knew you didn't care about any of this?
是不是这种事情让你立刻就知道你并不关心这些？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Lina Misitzis But was there a period of time where you were humoring her?
Lina Misitzis：但是有段时间你在逗她开心吗？
Oh, for sure.
哦，当然。
I would definitely try to change the topic, play any other music that I could think of.
我肯定会尝试改变话题，播放我能想到的任何其他音乐。
Play other music because EJ started playing the film soundtrack for the only other member of the family, their son Solomon, a three-year-old.
播放其他音乐，因为 EJ 开始为家庭中唯一的其他成员（他们三岁的儿子所罗门）播放电影配乐。
And Solomon--
还有所罗门——
Almost every day.
几乎每天。
Alex basically went from living a life blissfully free of Cats to living in an all-Cats household all the time.
亚历克斯基本上从幸福地没有猫的生活变成了一直生活在一个全是猫的家庭里。
He'll just come up to me and say, dada, I want Jellicle cats, or, I want Rumpleteazer, or something like that.
他会走过来对我说，爸爸，我想要杰利克猫，或者，我想要Rumpleteazer，或者类似的东西。
And now I have to know what that means.
现在我必须知道这意味着什么。
Alex could not understand his wife's love of this movie, which everyone else on the planet seemed to love to hate.
亚历克斯无法理解他妻子对这部电影的喜爱，而地球上的其他人似乎又爱又恨。
Days went by, then weeks.
几天过去了，然后是几周。
He definitely was like, I can't hear about this anymore.
他肯定会说，我再也听不到这个了。
And he has since said, multiple times, that it's ruined his life.
此后他多次表示，这毁了他的生活。
If Alex didn't want to talk about Cats anymore, EJ wanted to be a good partner.
如果 Alex 不想再谈论猫，EJ 就想成为一个好伙伴。
So she went somewhere else.
所以她去了别的地方。
She announced the new plan in a tweet.
她在推文中宣布了新计划。
Quote, "My husband couldn't listen to me talking about it anymore, so I'm doing a podcast about the movie musical Cats.
引用：“我的丈夫无法再听我谈论这件事了，所以我正在制作一个关于电影音乐剧《猫》的播客。
It's called PodCats."
它的名字叫PodCats。”
Can you see in the dark?
你在黑暗中看得见吗？
Ej Dickson Would you--
Ej Dickson 你愿意——
Can you say of your bite that it's worse than your bark?
你能说你的咬伤比你的吠叫更糟糕吗？
If you were and you are, you're the target audience for PodCats.
如果您过去是，现在也是，那么您就是 PodCats 的目标受众。
We're Dan--
我们是丹——
And I'm EJ.
我是EJ。
Alex It's pretty-- yeah, it's kind of deeply embarrassing that people are going to listen to the podcast and be like, who is this woman?
亚历克斯：这很漂亮 - 是的，人们在听播客时会问，这个女人是谁？
When you say podcast, do you mean This American Life?
当你说播客时，你指的是《This American Life》吗？
Both.
两个都。
Primarily PodCats-- PodCats the podcast.
主要是 PodCats——PodCats 播客。
We're also going to answer all of your burning questions about cats, including but not limited to--
我们还将回答您所有有关猫的紧迫问题，包括但不限于——
What's a Jellicle cat?
什么是杰利克猫？
What's a Jellicle cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats-- cats--
什么是杰利克猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--猫--
Is it true that you told EJ that Cats is ruining your life?
你告诉 EJ 猫正在毁掉你的生活，这是真的吗？
I've probably said that.
我大概已经说过了。
We get so little time to ourselves now.
我们现在留给自己的时间太少了。
We have a three-year-old, and we both work crazy hours.
我们有一个三岁的孩子，我们都疯狂地工作。
This is the way that you choose to spend your free time, by going to see Cats and making a podcast about it?
这就是你选择度过空闲时间的方式，去看《猫》并制作一个关于它的播客？
How can you make that your free time?
你怎样才能把它变成你的空闲时间呢？
So Alex doesn't want to talk to his wife about this thing that she loves, which I get, except for one thing.
所以亚历克斯不想和他的妻子谈论她喜欢的这件事，我明白，除了一件事。
He's passing all of this judgment, but he's never actually seen the movie.
他通过了所有这些判断，但他从未真正看过这部电影。
So I set it up for all three of us to go see Cats at the one theater within 234 miles that's still playing it.
所以我安排我们三个人去 234 英里范围内的一家仍在放映《猫》的剧院。
We get to the theater just after 9:00 and take three seats in the back-- EJ and Alex next to each other.
9:00 刚过，我们就到达了剧院，坐在后面的三个座位上——EJ 和 Alex 并排。
I'm next to Alex.
我在亚历克斯旁边。
I figure the theater would be empty.
我估计剧院会空无一人。
It wasn't.
事实并非如此。
All three of us take turns remarking on the surprisingly good turnout, which, including us, totals nine.
我们三个人轮流评论投票率出奇的高，包括我们在内，总共有九人。
There are definitely more people than I thought there would be.
人数肯定比我想象的要多。
Yeah.
是的。
Lina Misitzis In front of us are four teenagers slouched in their seats.
Lina Misitzis 我们面前有四个无精打采地坐在座位上的青少年。
They're laughing throughout the previews, which makes me think they're probably stoned.
他们在整个预览中都在笑，这让我觉得他们可能喝醉了。
EJ notices them, too.
EJ 也注意到了它们。
These people are not here for the right reason.
这些人来这里不是有正当理由的。
The film opens with a burlap sack tossed in an alleyway, which, obviously, is full of alley cats.
影片以一个粗麻袋扔在巷子里开始，显然里面装满了野猫。
Dozens of them circle the disposed sack, hissing, also doing pirouettes.
几十只它们围着被处理掉的麻袋，发出嘶嘶声，还做着旋转动作。
And just to be clear, by cats, I mean human adults with fur digitally attached to their skin.
需要明确的是，我所说的猫是指皮肤上有数字化毛皮的成年人。
One of them rips open the still-moving bag, allowing whatever is inside of it to break free.
其中一人撕开仍在移动的袋子，让里面的东西挣脱出来。
And what it is inside of this bag-- also a cat.
还有这个袋子里装的东西——也是一只猫。
[MEOW] Woman Oh, no. Look what the cat dragged in.
[喵] 女人哦，不。看看猫拖进去了什么。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Man Stop, and you're talking around your bowl on an empty stomach.
[插话]伙计，停下来，你空着肚子围着碗说话。
Look, I'm not going to pretend Cats isn't a train wreck.
听着，我不会假装《猫》不是火车残骸。
Alex covers his mouth with his hand, like he's hiding his abject horror.
亚历克斯用手捂住嘴，就像是在掩饰自己的极度恐惧。
But then, about 15 minutes into the movie, when Rebel Wilson starts singing and dancing with a parade of cockroaches, I realized something.
但后来，电影开始大约 15 分钟时，当瑞贝尔·威尔逊开始与一群蟑螂一起唱歌跳舞时，我意识到了一些事情。
EJ and Alex are on a really good date.
EJ 和 Alex 的约会非常愉快。
For most of the movie, they hold hands.
在电影的大部分时间里，他们手牵着手。
Alex kisses EJ's palm three times, which coincides with the number of times she calls something the best part of the movie.
Alex 亲吻了 EJ 的手掌三下，这与她称电影中最精彩部分的次数一致。
This is the best part.
这是最好的部分。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
This is the best part.
这是最好的部分。
I think what makes this a good date has nothing to do with what they're doing, but, instead, with the fact that they're doing it together.
我认为这次约会的美好之处与他们正在做的事情无关，而是与他们一起做的事实有关。
When Judi Dench's Old Deuteronomy shows up, who, by the way, is, for some reason, wearing a fur coat atop her literal coat of fur, Alex hums along with the rest of the cats, who are there to welcome her, because, of course, he knows the music.
当朱迪·丹奇饰演的老申命记出现时，顺便说一下，她出于某种原因，在她真正的毛皮外套上穿着一件毛皮大衣，亚历克斯和其他在那里欢迎她的猫一起哼唱，因为他当然知道音乐。
It's been playing in his house nonstop for months.
这首歌已经在他家里不间断地播放了几个月。
[HUMMING] Lina Misitzis The movie ends just before midnight.
[哼哼] Lina Misitzis 电影在午夜前结束。
EJ says they need to get home, back to their son and sitter.
EJ 说他们需要回家，回到儿子和保姆身边。
We split a cab, and I ask Alex how he liked this movie that, to quote him, has ruined his life?
我们拼了一辆出租车，我问亚历克斯他如何喜欢这部电影，用他的话来说，这部电影毁了他的生活？
I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, actually.
事实上，我比我想象的更喜欢它。
And why?
为什么？
Alex I liked-- what's his name, EJ?
我喜欢亚历克斯——他叫什么名字，EJ？
The railway cat.
铁路猫。
Skimbleshanks.
斯金布尔香克斯。
Alex Skimbleshanks.
亚历克斯·斯金布尔香克斯。
Skimbleshanks killed it.
斯金布尔香克斯杀了它。
So something you told me before we went in is that part of you really does think that EJ's kind of just being a contrarian in liking this movie.
所以在我们进去之前你告诉我的是，你确实认为 EJ 在喜欢这部电影方面有点逆向思维。
And I'm wondering if you still feel that way?
我想知道你是否仍然有这种感觉？
I knew you would say that.
我就知道你会这么说。
Lina Misitzis Do you still feel that way?
莉娜·米西茨 (Lina Misitzis) 你现在还有这样的感觉吗？
No, I don't.
不，我不。
I don't feel that way.
我不这么认为。
And I think I kind of have an understanding.
我想我有所了解。
I can see how, despite it being a horrible movie, you can genuinely appreciate it.
我可以看出，尽管这是一部糟糕的电影，但你可以真诚地欣赏它。
It just kind of feels good.
感觉很好。
It's kind of joyous.
这有点令人高兴。
I don't know.
我不知道。
And I'm kind of-- yeah, I'm eager to unpack this with you more, EJ.
我有点——是的，我很想和你一起解开这个谜题，EJ。
I think you're only going to feel that way for a limited period of time.
我认为你只会在有限的时间内有这种感觉。
That's probably true.
这可能是真的。
Lina Misitzis When movies end, the lights are still dim, the credits roll, there's this moment.
Lina Misitzis 当电影结束时，灯光仍然昏暗，片尾字幕滚动，这就是这一刻。
It's just before people start getting up, where everyone's quiet.
就在人们起床之前，每个人都很安静。
It's like waking up from a dream.
就像从梦中醒来一样。
And then, suddenly, you check back into the reality of your own life.
然后，突然间，你重新审视自己生活的现实。
I figure, that's the moment I'm catching Alex in.
我想，这就是我抓住亚历克斯的时刻。
The lights haven't totally gone back up yet.
灯光还没有完全恢复。
This is not how he really feels.
这不是他真实的感受。
But then, a week later, I get a text from EJ.
但一周后，我收到了 EJ 的短信。
She says that, last night, while she and her son were listening to Cats, Alex belted along with the same song I had caught him humming to at the movies.
她说，昨晚，当她和儿子听《猫》时，亚历克斯高声唱着我在电影中听到他哼着的那首歌。
I think he's turned, she says.
我认为他已经转变了，她说。
Lina Misitzis is one of the producers of our show.
Lina Misitzis 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Our program was produced this week by Lina Misitzis.
我们的节目本周由 Lina Misitzis 制作。
The people who put together today's show includes Elna Baker, Emanuele Berry, Dana Chivvis, Noor Gill, Damian Grave, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker.
今天节目的制作人包括 Elna Baker、Emanuele Berry、Dana Chivvis、Noor Gill、Damian Grave、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Rae Mondo、Nadia Reiman、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Julie Whitaker。
Managing editor is Diane Wu.
总编辑是 Diane Wu。
Our executive editor is David Kestenbaum.
我们的执行编辑是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。
A special thanks today to Emily Liu, Yian Zhou, Robert Du, John Lesley Morton, and Heaven Berhane.
今天特别感谢 Emily Liu、Yian Zhou、Robert Du、John Lesley Morton 和 Heaven Berhane。
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org-- where you can listen to our archive of nearly 700 shows for absolutely free.
我们的网站 - thisamericanlife.org - 您可以完全免费收听我们存档的近 700 个节目。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia。
Whenever he comes to New York City, there's only one deli that he wants to go to for corned beef.
每当他来到纽约市时，他只想去一家熟食店吃咸牛肉。
Cats, cats, cats, cats, cats, cats, cats, cats.
猫，猫，猫，猫，猫，猫，猫，猫。
I'll have what he's having.
他所拥有的我都会拥有。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。