667: Wartime Radio - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #667 | January 3, 2020 667: Wartime Radio Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 667 集 | 2020 年 1 月 3 日 667：战时广播 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass When Dave was turning his life around and trying different things and figuring out what to do next, one of the places he looked was to the Howard Stern Show.

序言：序言 Ira Glass 当戴夫改变他的生活并尝试不同的事情并弄清楚下一步该做什么时，他看的地方之一就是霍华德·斯特恩秀。

And I think that was a really good choice.

我认为这是一个非常好的选择。

I know everybody is not a fan of Howard Stern, but I am.

我知道每个人都不是霍华德·斯特恩的粉丝，但我是。

And I think that one of the best things about the show is that it's always been a place where people talk with this kind of brutal and funny honesty about themselves.

我认为这个节目最好的事情之一就是它总是一个人们以这种残酷而有趣的诚实谈论自己的地方。

One of Howard's innovations is that he took the strain of crude, dark, confessional comedy that's always been a big part of stand-up, ever since Lenny Bruce-- Howard figured out a way to turn that into radio, daily radio.

霍华德的创新之一是，他采用了粗俗、黑暗、自白喜剧的风格，自从莱尼·布鲁斯以来，这种风格一直是单口喜剧的重要组成部分——霍华德找到了一种方法，将其转变为广播，每日广播。

Anyway, to get back to this guy Dave, he loved that about the show.

不管怎样，回到戴夫这个人身上，他很喜欢这个节目。

And in 2015, he was a few months sober, in his early 40s, working as a waiter at Katz's Deli in New York City.

2015 年，40 岁出头的他在纽约市的 Katz's Deli 餐厅担任服务员，清醒了几个月。

When he was younger, he'd worked in television, hosting an interview show for college kids but ruined that career with heroin addiction.

年轻时，他曾在电视台工作，为大学生主持访谈节目，但因海洛因成瘾而毁掉了他的职业生涯。

Now sober in recovery, he needed a project.

现在他已经恢复清醒，他需要一个项目。

And he decided to a podcast about drugs with the feeling of the Howard Stern Show.

他决定制作一个关于毒品的播客，带有霍华德·斯特恩秀的感觉。

Like, he remembered the years when comedian Artie Lange was on Howard Stern-- definitely my favorite period of Howard Stern.

就像，他记得喜剧演员阿蒂·兰格在霍华德·斯特恩上演的那些年——这绝对是我最喜欢的霍华德·斯特恩时期。

When Artie would come on every day.

当阿蒂每天都来的时候。

He would talk about his own drug problems.

他会谈论他自己的毒品问题。

He would tell crazy stories.

他会讲疯狂的故事。

He would talk in this very real way about the mistakes he was making in his life at that time that he was not able to stop, and Dave wanted to shoot for that.

他会以一种非常真实的方式谈论他当时在生活中所犯的错误，这些错误是他无法阻止的，而戴夫想要为此而努力。

He would co-host the show with his friend Chris who-- he had met Chris years before in rehab.

他将与他的朋友克里斯共同主持该节目，克里斯多年前在康复中心认识了克里斯。

They would spend hours in rehab smoking cigarettes and talking about the crazy things that they'd done on drugs.

他们会在戒毒所里花上几个小时抽烟，谈论他们因毒品所做的疯狂事情。

That's what they wanted the podcast to be.

这就是他们想要的播客。

People'd come on, tell wild drug stories, and-- very important to Dave-- no recovery talk, which Dave found to be sanctimonious and annoying.

人们会过来，讲述疯狂的毒品故事，而且——对戴夫来说非常重要——没有康复谈话，戴夫觉得这是道貌岸然且令人讨厌的。

This show is not necessarily about recovery.

这个节目不一定是关于康复的。

If this show is ever about recovery, you got to get somebody else in this spot.

如果这个节目是关于康复的，那么你必须让其他人来这个位置。

I'm out.

我出去了。

OK, in case this isn't clear.

好吧，以防这还不清楚。

In these recordings, Dave is the one with the deeper voice and the loud opinions, Chris is the other guy.

在这些录音中，戴夫是声音低沉、意见大声的人，克里斯是另一个人。

This show is about drug stories.

这个节目是关于毒品的故事。

It's not about recovery.

这与恢复无关。

It's not about doing the next right thing.

这不是要做下一件正确的事。

It's about the last wrong thing.

这是关于最后一个错误的事情。

But maybe with the evolution of your recovery, that's what the show will become.

但也许随着你康复的进展，这部剧就会变成这样。

Notice how at the end there, Chris is not agreeing with Dave.

请注意，最后克里斯并不同意戴夫的观点。

Chris is 10 years younger than Dave, but started drugs and drinking at an earlier age-- he was just 11 or 12-- and has way more extreme stories about it, including a year in prison.

克里斯比戴夫小 10 岁，但开始吸毒和酗酒的年龄更早——他只有 11 或 12 岁——并且有更极端的故事，包括入狱一年。

He's also spent way more time in rehab.

他还花了更多的时间进行康复治疗。

And at this point, he'd been sober for nearly two years versus four months for Dave.

此时，他已经清醒了近两年，而戴夫则清醒了四个月。

And all of that gave him a different feeling about recovery and sobriety.

所有这些都让他对康复和清醒有了不同的感觉。

He was game to talk about it, but Dave was adamant.

他很乐意谈论这件事，但戴夫态度坚决。

Sobriety isn't all that entertaining.

清醒并不是那么有趣。

And first and foremost, he wanted the podcast to be entertaining.

首先，他希望播客具有娱乐性。

If this show was about recovery, it's going to be lame.

如果这个节目是关于康复的，那就太蹩脚了。

So they'd tell drug stories.

所以他们会讲毒品故事。

It wasn't meant to be good for you.

这并不是为了你好。

It was meant to be fun.

这本来就是为了好玩。

They listed it in the comedy section of iTunes, not self-help.

他们把它列在 iTunes 的喜剧部分，而不是自助。

If you want self-help, Dave had said, go to a meeting.

戴夫说过，如果你想要自助，就去参加会议。

They were going to call the show War Stories, but there was already a podcast called War Stories.

他们打算将节目命名为“战争故事”，但已经有一个名为“战争故事”的播客。

It was about actual war with tanks and guns and stuff, so they came up with Dopey, which really captures the spirit of the show perfectly.

这是关于坦克、枪支之类的真实战争，所以他们想出了《Dopey》，它完美地抓住了这部剧的精神。

As Chris put it, two dopes talking about dope.

正如克里斯所说，两个毒品在谈论毒品。

Listen, I am so grateful to be sober.

听着，我很庆幸自己能保持清醒。

And I'm so grateful to be able to talk about drugs, you know, like in a way where I'm not feeling bad about it.

我很感激能够以一种不会让我感到难过的方式谈论毒品。

It's not even euphoric recall.

这甚至不是欣快的回忆。

It's just funny.

这很有趣。

And I think that's why we got along, 'cause we felt safe doing that with each other.

我认为这就是我们相处得很好的原因，因为我们觉得彼此在一起很安全。

You know, sometimes you feel a little judged with people when you recount funny stuff that's happened to you.

你知道，当你讲述发生在你身上的有趣的事情时，有时你会觉得自己受到了别人的评判。

Yeah.

是的。

Ira Glass In Dopey, there's going to be no judgment of drug use, past or present.

Ira Glass 在《Dopey》中，不会对过去或现在的吸毒情况做出判断。

They recorded the first episode on a laptop, no microphone or anything, near a fish tank in Dave's apartment in Manhattan.

他们在曼哈顿戴夫公寓的一个鱼缸附近，用笔记本电脑录制了第一集，没有麦克风或其他任何东西。

Maybe you could hear the hum of the tank in that recording.

也许你可以在录音中听到坦克的嗡嗡声。

But between this episode, Episode 1 and Episode 143 of Dopey-- just 2 and 1/2 years later-- their lives are going to change drastically.

但在《Dopey》的这一集、第 1 集和第 143 集之间——仅仅 2 年又 1/2 年后——他们的生活将发生巨大的变化。

By Episode 143, Dopey would sound completely different.

到了第 143 集，Dopey 听起来就完全不同了。

In the episodes in between, they chronicle this story where so much happens to them and some others, things lots of drug users face.

在中间的剧集中，他们记录了这个故事，其中发生了很多发生在他们和其他一些人身上的事情，这是许多吸毒者所面临的事情。

But because podcasts and radio are so intimate, it all gets documented in the most unfiltered way.

但由于播客和广播是如此亲密，所有这些都以最未经过滤的方式记录下来。

Dave and Chris wanted their show to be just for fun, but it ended up being so much more.

戴夫和克里斯希望他们的节目只是为了好玩，但最终却不仅仅如此。

Today, we're going to have two stories like this.

今天我们要讲两个这样的故事。

Stories about a kind of DIY radio-- very different kinds of DIY radio-- but in both stories, it's amateurs inventing how to talk about what it is that they're going through.

关于一种 DIY 收音机的故事——非常不同类型的 DIY 收音机——但在这两个故事中，都是业余爱好者发明了如何谈论他们正在经历的事情。

And really, both stories are dispatches from two very different battlefields.

事实上，这两个故事都是来自两个截然不同的战场的报道。

I know that sounds a little grand, but really this story-- from the opioid epidemic-- and then the other story is from a small town in Syria, in the middle of the war that's going on there.

我知道这听起来有点宏大，但实际上这个故事来自阿片类药物流行病，另一个故事来自叙利亚的一个小镇，那里正在发生战争。

And we hear about life during that war in this way that is much more personal and close up than we usually get.

我们以这种方式了解那场战争期间的生活，这种方式比我们通常听到的更加个人化和近距离。

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One, Two Dope Kings.

第一幕，两个毒王。

So OK, you remember the premise?

好吧，你还记得前提吗？

Two guys-- Dave and Chris-- they have this podcast.

两个人——戴夫和克里斯——他们有这个播客。

It's called Dopey.

它的名字叫多皮。

Dana Chivvis from our staff, listened to dozens of hours of the podcast, spanning 2 and 1/2 years, and tells the story of what happened.

我们工作人员的 Dana Chivvis 收听了数十个小时的播客，时间跨度为 2 又 1/2 年，并讲述了所发生的故事。

Quick warning before we start, since this is the podcast internet version of our show, we have removed the bleeps that we use when we do the show on the radio.

在我们开始之前快速警告，由于这是我们节目的播客互联网版本，我们已经删除了在广播中播放节目时使用的哔声。

If you prefer a bleeped version of the show, it's at our website.

如果您喜欢该节目的音频版本，请访问我们的网站。

Now here's Dana.

现在是达纳。

We've been talking about this podcast for five minutes already.

我们已经讨论这个播客五分钟了。

And the whole point of the podcast is to tell crazy drug stories, so let's get right to one.

播客的全部目的就是讲述疯狂的毒品故事，所以让我们直接讲一个吧。

This is from the very first episode.

这是从第一集开始的。

Chris tells the story.

克里斯讲述了这个故事。

So I relapsed.

于是我又复发了。

I don't even want to say I relapsed.

我什至不想说我复发了。

I just started using again after a brief period of abstinence.

我在短暂禁欲后才重新开始使用。

And I took a lot of Xanax-- about 60 bars-- for those of you that know bars.

我服用了很多 Xanax——大约 60 块——对于那些了解 Xanax 的人来说。

At once?

立刻？

Chris No, over a period of about three or four days.

克里斯 不，大约需要三四天的时间。

So you took 120 milligrams over four days?

那么您在四天内服用了 120 毫克？

Yeah, and I blacked out for about a week.

是的，我昏迷了大约一个星期。

And during that blackout, I robbed a veterinarian.

在那次停电期间，我抢劫了一位兽医。

I went into the veterinary clinic.

我走进兽医诊所。

I told them my cat was having seizures and I needed phenobarbital ASAP.

我告诉他们我的猫癫痫发作，我需要尽快服用苯巴比妥。

They told me something like, you know, we don't just hand out medications for the asking.

他们告诉我，你知道，我们不只是根据要求分发药物。

Please fill out some paperwork and can we see your cat?

请填写一些文件，我们可以看看你的猫吗？

Obviously, I had no cat with me.

显然，我没有带猫。

Did you have a cat at home?

你家里有猫吗？

Chris I did have a cat at home, Smegal.

克里斯，我家里确实有一只猫，斯梅格尔。

[LAUGHING] So I fill out the paperwork.

[笑]所以我填写了文件。

And while I was filling out the paperwork, I ended up putting it down and storming into the back, knocked over the nurse.

当我填写文件时，我最终把它放下并冲进后面，撞倒了护士。

And the veterinarian came into the medication storage room and tried to stop me.

兽医走进药物储藏室并试图阻止我。

I got out.

我下了车。

The police came.

警察来了。

I struggled with the police and fought them, and got a bunch of assaults on the police officers.

我和警察扭打，打架，还遭到了很多对警察的攻击。

There was a helicopter on the scene.

现场有一架直升机。

It was a big, big deal.

这是一件大事。

And just so you know something about Chris-- he's burly.

让你对克里斯有所了解——他很魁梧。

Chris is at least six feet.

克里斯至少有六英尺。

He's like one of these Massachusetts Protestant white guys.

他就像马萨诸塞州的新教白人之一。

He's very big and broad.

他很大很宽。

And I would be scared if Chris got upset.

如果克里斯不高兴我会很害怕。

But I'm a gentle person.

但我是个温柔的人。

Dave Very gentle, very gentle soul-- like a lamb.

戴夫 非常温柔，非常温柔的灵魂——就像一只羔羊。

If Chris is the lamb in a drug addicts clothing, Dave is the border collie, constantly circling Chris, herding him between drug stories, nipping at his ankles.

如果克里斯是一只穿着吸毒者衣服的羔羊，那么戴夫就是一只边境牧羊犬，不断地围着克里斯转，在毒品故事之间驱赶他，咬他的脚踝。

For his Boston accent--

因为他的波士顿口音——

Oh you invite all your Facebook friends to like Dopey.

哦，你邀请所有 Facebook 好友喜欢 Dopey。

No, I invite certain ones.

不，我邀请了某些人。

Dave Certain?

戴夫确定吗？

Certain-- Dave Which certain ones do invite up to your room?

某些——戴夫 哪些特定的人会邀请到你的房间？

Room-- Dave I invite certain friends up to my room.

房间——戴夫 我邀请某些朋友到我的房间来。

What's the flavor?

什么味道？

Chris This flavor is the milk inspired by Momofuku.

克里斯 这种口味是受百福启发的牛奶。

Ugh-- this fucking vaping-- it's the end of the world and it's--

呃——这该死的电子烟——这是世界末日，而且是——

Chris, on the other hand, comes across as a sweet docile kind of dope who finds subtle ways to subvert Dave's alpha maleness.

另一方面，克里斯给人的印象是一个甜蜜温顺的傻瓜，他找到微妙的方法来颠覆戴夫的雄性领袖。

Like on episode 15, it's as easy as the word toodles.

就像第 15 集一样，它就像“toodles”这个词一样简单。

OK, toodles.

好吧，小东西。

Dave No, no, no, we don't say toodles.

戴夫：不，不，不，我们不说toodles。

Which Dave hates, so Chris starts saying it at the end of every show.

戴夫讨厌这一点，所以克里斯开始在每场演出结束时都这么说。

All right, toodles.

好吧，小东西们。

Dave Please stop staying toodles.

戴夫，请别再呆下去了。

[LAUGHTER] Dana Chivvis They do very little editing, except they do bleep out people's last names.

[笑声] Dana Chivvis 他们几乎不做任何编辑，只是用声音读出人们的姓氏。

They want the show to be anonymous, which is why I'm not using last names either, by the way.

他们希望节目是匿名的，这就是为什么我也不使用姓氏，顺便说一句。

And they use nontraditional bleeps like this one.

他们使用像这样的非传统嘟嘟声。

[LASER SOUND] Dopey is not the kind of show you bring home to meet your parents.

[激光声音] Dopey 不是那种你带回家见父母的节目。

Dave and Chris swear a lot, for one thing.

一方面，戴夫和克里斯经常说脏话。

And obviously they're talking about heavy drug use.

显然他们正在谈论大量吸毒。

But it's not just that-- they can be insensitive and insulting too.

但不仅如此——他们也可能麻木不仁、无礼无礼。

It is not politically correct by design.

它的设计并不政治正确。

They use the kind of language you might forgive your grandfather for using, but which is harder to stomach coming from a 30 or 40 year old today.

他们使用的语言你可能会原谅你祖父使用的语言，但对于今天的 30 岁或 40 岁的人来说，这是很难接受的。

And then sometimes there's also language you wouldn't forgive your grandfather for using.

有时也有一些你不会原谅你祖父使用的语言。

I'm not going to play you that stuff.

我不会给你玩那些东西。

On the first few episodes of Dopey, they run through most of their favorite drug stories-- how Chris made wine from orange juice at rehab, how Dave once stayed up all night doing coke, heroin, and ecstasy before appearing on Howard Stern.

在《Dopey》的前几集中，他们讲述了大多数他们最喜欢的毒品故事——克里斯如何在戒毒所用橙汁酿酒，戴夫在出现在霍华德·斯特恩节目之前如何熬夜吸食可乐、海洛因和摇头丸。

How Chris shot crystal meth while at a brain injury clinic.

克里斯如何在脑损伤诊所注射冰毒。

They're not supposed to be engaging in recovery talk, but of course, the only reason Dopey can exist is because Dave and Chris are both in recovery.

他们不应该参与康复讨论，但当然，多皮能够存在的唯一原因是因为戴夫和克里斯都在康复中。

There'd be no Dopey without it, so recovery keeps slipping into the conversation.

没有它就不会有傻瓜，所以恢复一直成为人们谈论的话题。

Even Dave does it.

就连戴夫也这么做。

We're actually in a hurry, because I have to go qualify at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting at 8:00.

我们实际上很匆忙，因为我必须参加 8:00 举行的戒酒无名会会议。

Yeah, it's a live episode of Dopey basically.

是的，这基本上是 Dopey 的现场表演。

Basically, but more based on the recovery end of things.

基本上，但更多的是基于事情的恢复结束。

I'm a little bit nervous about it.

我对此有点紧张。

Are you?

你是？

Dave Yeah, just let it rip.

戴夫 是的，就让它撕裂吧。

Don't even think about it, that's the best way to do it.

想都别想，这就是最好的办法。

Chris actually has a scholarly knowledge of 12 step philosophy.

克里斯实际上拥有十二步哲学的学术知识。

And now and then, he quotes by memory from the big book, which is sort of the Bible of Alcoholics Anonymous.

他时不时地凭记忆引用这本大书，有点像戒酒互诫协会的圣经。

And then they added the appendix to the book where they quote William James, who says that you have a spiritual experience of the educational variety.

然后他们在书中添加了附录，引用了威廉·詹姆斯的话，他说你有一种教育多样性的精神体验。

That's what you're talking about.

这就是你所说的。

And it's actually--

而它实际上是——

In the beginning-- for the first 20 episodes or so-- they get like 500 downloads an episode-- so barely an audience, but they start hearing from people right away.

一开始——前 20 集左右——每集的下载量约为 500 次——所以几乎没有观众，但他们立即开始收到人们的来信。

They get their first fan email from some guy named Troy three weeks after they upload the first episode.

在上传第一集三周后，他们收到了一个名叫 Troy 的人发来的第一封粉丝电子邮件。

They can't believe anyone is listening to them.

他们不敢相信有人在听他们说话。

They call their newfound audience The Dopey Nation.

他们称新发现的观众为“傻瓜国家”。

Other people start emailing, leaving reviews on iTunes.

其他人开始发送电子邮件，在 iTunes 上留下评论。

Some listeners leave voicemails with their own war stories.

一些听众在语音邮件中留下了自己的战争故事。

Their downloads grow.

他们的下载量不断增长。

By October, they average about 1,000 downloads an episode.

到 10 月份，每集平均下载量约为 1,000 次。

So whoever The Dopey Nation is now, stay strong Dopey Nation.

所以，无论“傻瓜国家”现在是谁，“傻瓜国家”都要保持坚强。

There's a Reddit thread about Dopey.

Reddit 上有一个关于 Dopey 的帖子。

A few people even get Dopey tattoos with the show's logo and the word Toodles underneath it.

有些人甚至纹了 Dopey 纹身，上面有节目的标志，下面还有 Toodles 的字样。

One guy takes Dave and Chris out to a steak dinner.

一个人带戴夫和克里斯出去吃牛排晚餐。

He tells them he didn't get sober until he started listening to their show.

他告诉他们，直到他开始听他们的节目，他才清醒过来。

Dave and Chris try to write back to every email they get.

戴夫和克里斯尝试回复他们收到的每封电子邮件。

They respond to comments on Facebook and Twitter.

他们对 Facebook 和 Twitter 上的评论做出回应。

People aren't turned off by the recovery talk.

人们并没有因为复苏的言论而失去兴趣。

They like listening to sober guys having fun, enjoying life in recovery.

他们喜欢听清醒的人享受乐趣，享受康复中的生活。

It gives them hope.

这给了他们希望。

Chris says the listeners come for the debauchery and stay for the recovery.

克里斯说，听众是为了放荡而来，留下来是为了康复。

He calls his marketing strategy rope a dope.

他称他的营销策略是“笨蛋”。

Dave and Chris know they have a finite number of drug stories between the two of them, so they develop a roster of recurring guests, friends of theirs who are also sober-- near celebrities like Rob Reiner's son, Nick, Dave's dad Alan, and then there's a guy named Todd, one of Dave's best friends from college.

戴夫和克里斯知道他们两人之间的毒品故事数量有限，因此他们制定了一份常客名单，他们的朋友也都是清醒的——靠近罗布·雷纳的儿子尼克、戴夫的父亲艾伦等名人，还有一个名叫托德的人，他是戴夫大学时最好的朋友之一。

They got addicted to heroin together in their 20s.

20多岁时，他们一起吸食海洛因成瘾。

Dave always said if Todd got sober, he could be the third host of Dopey, and Todd really wants to be on Dopey, but Todd is never sober.

戴夫总是说，如果托德清醒了，他可能会成为《多皮》的第三位主持人，而托德真的很想成为《多皮》的主持人，但托德从来没有清醒过。

All right, well if you want a good story, you know who to call here.

好吧，如果你想要一个好故事，你知道该给谁打电话。

Yeah, if you give me six months sobriety time and you're on the show.

是的，如果你给我六个月的清醒时间，然后你就上节目了。

I'm still full of stories.

我还是充满了故事。

What are you talking about?

你在说什么？

I'm fucking full of 'em.

我他妈的充满了他们。

He's doing community service and stuff.

他正在做社区服务之类的事情。

He's giving back.

他正在回馈。

Please, he's giving back, but what-- you know-- just give me some fucking clean time and you can come back to the house.

拜托，他正在回报，但是什么——你知道——只要给我一些他妈的干净的时间，你就可以回到家里了。

That's a lie.

那是一个谎言。

That's a lie.

那是一个谎言。

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

[插话]

What do you want from me?

你想从我这里得到什么？

[INAUDIBLE] more than two weeks.

[听不清] 两个多星期了。

It's been two and a half weeks.

已经两个半星期了。

Since you've puffed weed?

既然你已经吸过杂草了？

Todd No, no, since I did dope.

托德 不，不，因为我吸了毒。

I smoked weed three days ag-- no, two, three days ago.

我三天前吸过大麻——不，两天、三天前。

You're such a fucking liar.

你真是个骗子。

Dana Chivvis Todd is one of the few recurring guests still actively using drugs.

达纳·奇维斯·托德 (Dana Chivvis Todd) 是少数仍在积极吸毒的常客之一。

His life is in shambles.

他的生活一片混乱。

He's 42 and he can't hold down a job.

他42岁了，却保不住工作。

He spends all his money on drugs, lives in his parents' apartment in Manhattan.

他把所有的钱都花在了毒品上，住在曼哈顿父母的公寓里。

He often just watches DVDs all day.

他常常整天只看DVD。

How you doing Todd?

托德你怎么样？

Todd Miserable, how you guys doing?

托德悲惨，你们好吗？

[LAUGHS]

[笑]

That's Chris talking to Todd on Episode 54.

这是第 54 集中克里斯与托德的对话。

Not that good.

没那么好。

Chris Miserable-- is that related to substance abuse?

Chris Miserable——这与药物滥用有关吗？

Um, prob-- everything is related to substan-- what's not related to substance abuse these days?

嗯，问题是——一切都与物质有关——现在什么与物质滥用无关？

On this episode, Todd tells a very dopey story about getting so high on heroin, he passed out in a subway station and then slept through a meeting at the unemployment office the next day.

在这一集中，托德讲述了一个非常愚蠢的故事，他吸食海洛因后在地铁站昏倒，然后在第二天失业办公室的会议上睡着了。

The call failed.

通话失败。

Dana Chivvis Towards the end of this story, the call drops and Dave says--

达纳·奇夫维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 在故事即将结束时，电话挂断，戴夫说——

Dude, that's the worst story I ever heard in my-- I thought it was fun for a second, and then I realized poor Todd is in big trouble.

伙计，这是我听过的最糟糕的故事——我一瞬间觉得这很有趣，然后我意识到可怜的托德遇到了大麻烦。

As a listener, to me it seems like Todd has a specific purpose on Dopey.

作为一名听众，在我看来，托德对 Dopey 似乎有特定的目的。

He's a caricature of how not to treat your addiction, an example that Dave and Chris can hold up to their listeners and say, don't do it like this guy.

他是如何不治疗毒瘾的讽刺漫画，戴夫和克里斯可以向听众举出一个例子，告诉他们，不要像这个人那样做。

When Dave and Chris talk about recovery, they often talk about abstinence and 12 step programs.

当戴夫和克里斯谈论康复时，他们经常谈论禁欲和 12 步计划。

That's what worked for them, but the science shows that opioid addiction is best treated with medications like suboxone and methadone, which are associated with a 68% decrease in death.

这对他们来说是有效的，但科学表明，治疗阿片类药物成瘾的最佳方法是使用赛博松和美沙酮等药物，这些药物可以使死亡率降低 68%。

For a while on Dopey, Dave was pretty clear that he thought medications were dangerous, that you should learn to live without any substances.

在服用 Dopey 的一段时间里，戴夫非常清楚他认为药物是危险的，你应该学会在没有任何药物的情况下生活。

Chris was more middle of the road.

克里斯则处于中间路线。

Dave's opinions have changed by now.

戴夫的观点现在已经改变了。

He feels like whatever works best for you is what you should do.

他觉得最适合你的就是你应该做的。

Less than a year into making Dopey, Dave moved out of the apartment with the fish tank and in with his partner Linda and their six-year-old daughter.

制作《多皮》不到一年，戴夫搬出了带鱼缸的公寓，与他的伴侣琳达和他们六岁的女儿住在一起。

Chris eventually moved to Boston and started working towards a doctoral degree in psychology.

克里斯最终搬到了波士顿并开始攻读心理学博士学位。

He was dating a med student named Annie.

他正在和一位名叫安妮的医学生约会。

They lived together, had a dog.

他们住在一起，养了一只狗。

He was also working part-time for his sister's company-- which helps people who are struggling with addiction and other issues find treatment-- and he was working every other weekend at a sober living house.

他还为他姐姐的公司做兼职，该公司帮助那些与毒瘾和其他问题作斗争的人找到治疗，并且他每隔一个周末就在一个清醒的客厅工作。

By episode 96 of Dopey, they're getting about 3,000 listeners a show.

到 Dopey 的第 96 集，他们的每场演出已经吸引了大约 3,000 名听众。

They decide to relabel the show.

他们决定重新命名该节目。

They move it from the comedy section on iTunes to the self-help section, mainly because they thought they could compete better against other self-help podcasts, rather than comedy podcasts, but also because by now they've admitted to themselves they are, in fact, a self-help show.

他们将其从 iTunes 上的喜剧部分移至自助部分，主要是因为他们认为自己可以更好地与其他自助播客（而不是喜剧播客）竞争，但也因为现在他们已经承认自己实际上是一个自助节目。

But anyway, back to Todd.

但无论如何，回到托德。

On Dopey, Todd is the foil to the sober good life, to their successes.

在《多皮》中，托德是清醒美好生活和成功的陪衬。

Where he lacks control, Dave and Chris now exercise restraint.

在他缺乏控制的地方，戴夫和克里斯现在保持克制。

Where he is depressed, they are content.

他沮丧的地方，他们却很满足。

Where he can't hold down a job, they're raising children, getting advanced degrees, making a podcast every week.

在他无法保住工作的地方，他们正在抚养孩子，获得高级学位，每周制作一个播客。

Do something good for yourself tomorrow.

明天为自己做点好事。

Just do something.

做点什么吧。

I'll try.

我会尽力。

Dave Just-- nah, just do something.

戴夫只是——不，做点什么。

One thing and--

一件事还有——

I will.

我会的。

Dave --it all builds on each other, right?

戴夫——这一切都是相互基础的，对吧？

Right on.

就在。

Dave Whatever, all right, bud.

戴夫 无论如何，好吧，伙计。

I love you.

我爱你。

All right, guys.

好吧，伙计们。

You Chris, Dave have a great evening.

克里斯、戴夫你们度过了一个愉快的夜晚。

All right, you got it, boys, I'll talk to you later.

好吧，你们明白了，孩子们，我稍后再和你们谈谈。

Bye, peace.

再见，和平。

Dave That's tough.

戴夫 这很难。

Sad, sad, call.

伤心，伤心，打电话。

On Episode 126 last March, Todd's on the show again.

去年 3 月的第 126 集中，托德再次出现。

This time though he's sober.

不过这一次他清醒了。

He's been to detox and moved into a sober living house.

他已经戒毒并搬进了一间清醒的房子。

He refused to go to rehab, so Dave and Chris arrange for him to move into the sober house where Chris works in Western Massachusetts.

他拒绝去康复中心，因此戴夫和克里斯安排他搬进克里斯在马萨诸塞州西部工作的清醒房子。

You sound terrible.

你听起来很糟糕。

Chris Did you just wake up?

克里斯 你刚醒吗？

No, I've been up for hours-- too many hours.

不，我已经起床好几个小时了——太多的时间了。

Oh turn that frown upside down Todd, this is the first really sober call on Dopey.

哦，把托德的皱眉颠倒过来，这是对多皮的第一次真正清醒的呼吁。

That's Dave.

那是戴夫。

He keeps saying how nice it is to talk to Todd when he's sober.

他一直说托德清醒时能和他说话真是太好了。

He's happy to have his friend back, lucid.

他很高兴他的朋友恢复清醒。

Dave tells him he bought some new equipment for Dopey-- a soundboard and three microphones, an extra for when Todd is back.

戴夫告诉他，他为 Dopey 购买了一些新设备——一个音板和三个麦克风，这是托德回来时额外购买的。

Dude, I bought a board that was smaller, but it could only have two mics.

老兄，我买了一个更小的板，但它只能有两个麦克风。

And I was thinking, well, what do we do when Todd gets home?

我在想，好吧，托德回家后我们该怎么办？

[LAUGHTER] So I went out and I bought another board-- the Todd board.

[笑声] 所以我出去买了另一块板——托德板。

[LAUGHTER]

[笑声]

Yeah, all right, good.

是啊，好吧，很好。

Thank you, I like that.

谢谢你，我喜欢这样。

I like that a lot.

我非常喜欢这样。

Dude, do you remember?

哥们，你还记得吗？

You remember when you and me were driving home from LA--

你记得当你和我从洛杉矶开车回家时——

Dana Chivvis Todd lasted a few months at the sober living house, but he got bored and one day he left.

达纳·奇维斯·托德 (Dana Chivvis Todd) 在这栋朴素的客厅里待了几个月，但他感到无聊，有一天他离开了。

Moved back in with his parents, got a job.

搬回父母家住，找到了工作。

And then in June--

然后到了六月——

For those of you who don't know, this week was a terrible week for me.

对于那些不知道的人来说，这周对我来说是可怕的一周。

My very, very, very, very, very close friend Todd, who was on Dopey-- anyway, Todd died a week ago yesterday, so maybe eight days ago.

我非常、非常、非常、非常、非常亲密的朋友托德，他在服用 Dopey——无论如何，托德一周前的昨天去世了，所以也许是八天前。

He died.

他死了。

We don't know what happened, but I'm going to guess it was an overdose.

我们不知道发生了什么，但我猜这是服药过量。

Yeah.

是的。

Dave And I'm very broken up about it.

戴夫：我对此非常伤心。

Todd died in his parents' house.

托德死在他父母的家里。

He was 44 years old.

他今年 44 岁。

Well, I told my friends-- I told my friends he died.

好吧，我告诉我的朋友们——我告诉我的朋友他死了。

And they said, well, he's basically the most likely candidate to die.

他们说，好吧，他基本上是最有可能死亡的候选人。

And I agreed with them, but like, it's so sad to me that he never gets to be sober and he never gets to be free.

我同意他们的观点，但是，对我来说，他永远无法清醒，永远无法自由，这让我很难过。

He's never free.

他从来都没有自由。

It's like, if you're out there and you think you're going to get away with it, you might not.

就像，如果你在外面并且认为你能逃脱惩罚，你可能不会。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

And like, you guys should really fucking know that it could all end.

就像，你们真的应该知道这一切都可能结束。

Somehow after 20 years of heavy drug use, Dave had never had a close friend die from an overdose.

不知何故，在大量吸毒 20 年之后，戴夫从未让一位亲密的朋友因吸毒过量而死亡。

Todd is his first one.

托德是他的第一个。

It changes things for him.

这对他来说改变了一切。

Before, he'd laugh at the war stories-- all these absurd situations and bad decisions that should kill you, but didn't.

以前，他会嘲笑战争故事——所有这些荒谬的情况和糟糕的决定本该杀死你，但他没有。

He'd had the upper hand, but now he didn't anymore.

本来他占了上风，但现在他不再占上风了。

Those things had killed one of his best friends.

这些东西杀死了他最好的朋友之一。

Dave is the one who introduced Chris and Todd.

戴夫是介绍克里斯和托德的人。

They weren't close friends, but even still, Dave thinks Chris is a little cold about his death.

他们不是亲密的朋友，但即使如此，戴夫仍然认为克里斯对他的死有点冷淡。

And Dave knows this is unfair, but he feels a little resentful towards Chris.

戴夫知道这不公平，但他对克里斯感到有点怨恨。

Todd was in Chris's sober living facility right before he died.

托德去世前就在克里斯清醒的生活设施中。

Why didn't he look out for him better?

为什么他没有更好地照顾他呢？

Todd's death last summer just happens to coincide with an uptick in downloads on Dopey.

托德去年夏天的去世恰好与 Dopey 的下载量上升同时发生。

In July, their downloads double when they land their biggest celebrity interview yet-- Artie Lange, the comedian who inspired Dopey.

7 月，当他们接受迄今为止最大的名人采访——启发 Dopey 的喜剧演员阿蒂·兰格 (Artie Lange) 时，下载量翻了一番。

This is the guest.

这是客人。

I don't want you to know who I am yet because we'll let them guess.

我不想让你知道我是谁，因为我们会让他们猜测。

It's not Meryl Streep.

这不是梅丽尔·斯特里普。

He's Episode 140, just two episodes after Todd's death.

他是第 140 集，距离托德去世仅两集。

Artie tells a bunch of stories about getting high-- on The Howard Stern Show, on an airplane, in a Santa suit.

阿蒂讲述了一系列关于吸毒的故事——在霍华德·斯特恩秀上、在飞机上、穿着圣诞老人服装。

So I'm Santa Claus-- the next morning, if you hit the beard, all this cocaine would come out of the beard.

所以我是圣诞老人——第二天早上，如果你碰到胡须，所有可卡因都会从胡须中流出来。

He's a little unhinged during the interview, possibly high.

他在接受采访时有点精神错乱，可能是兴奋了。

What do I say?

我说什么？

Dave Stay strong Dopey Nation.

戴夫，呆呆国家要坚强。

Here we go.

开始了。

Artie Lange --bustling in from the sea.

阿蒂·兰格——从海上忙碌而来。

With a rollicking song, he tramples along, swaggering boisterously.

他伴随着欢快的歌声，大步走着，大摇大摆地走着。

On the next episode of Dopey, Episode 141, Dave and Chris are on Skype.

在 Dopey 的下一集（第 141 集）中，Dave 和 Chris 使用 Skype。

They do an Artie recap.

他们对阿蒂进行了回顾。

Chris, whose drug of choice was always cocaine, thinks Artie was probably on cocaine.

克里斯一直选择的药物是可卡因，他认为阿蒂可能吸食了可卡因。

They talk about it for 30 minutes before Dave changes the subject.

他们讨论了 30 分钟，然后戴夫改变了话题。

Two weeks ago, I'm at work-- Chris Yeah, I know where you're going with this.

两周前，我在工作——克里斯是的，我知道你想做什么。

Where he's going is, Dave wants to do a little recovery lesson.

戴夫要去的地方是，他想做一点恢复课程。

Two weeks before, Chris had made a phone call to his sponsor and it was clear he thought he was talking to Dave, so the sponsor got worried and called a friend of Chris's who texted Dave, who freaked out.

两周前，克里斯给他的赞助商打了电话，很明显他以为自己是在和戴夫谈话，所以赞助商很担心，打电话给克里斯的一个朋友，他给戴夫发了短信，戴夫吓坏了。

And then I'm like, holy shit, so I start texting you.

然后我就想，天哪，所以我开始给你发短信。

You texted me so many-- I took a screenshot of it.

你给我发了很多短信——我把它截图了。

You texted me like 12 times in ten minutes or something.

你在 10 分钟之内给我发了 12 条短信。

Chris is one of those people who always texts back, even if he's sleeping.

克里斯是那些总是回短信的人之一，即使他在睡觉。

So when Dave didn't hear from Chris, he sent a message to Annie, Chris's girlfriend.

因此，当戴夫没有收到克里斯的消息时，他给克里斯的女朋友安妮发了一条消息。

Chris eventually resurfaced and calmed everyone down, but he was ticked that Dave had contacted Annie.

克里斯最终重新出现并让每个人都平静下来，但他对戴夫联系了安妮感到惊讶。

He was fine, just a little sleepy and out of it.

他很好，只是有点困，有点昏昏欲睡。

No reason to scare his girlfriend.

没有理由吓唬他的女朋友。

--everything happened and I got upset.

——一切都发生了，我很沮丧。

There's just that it had to come back to Annie.

只是它必须回到安妮身边。

And I never would get upset if somebody expressed concern.

如果有人表达担忧，我绝不会感到不安。

Well, that's not true.

嗯，事实并非如此。

You get upset when I'm concerned all the time.

当我一直担心你的时候，你会感到不安。

[INTERPOSING VOICES] Dave --you take concern as a personal attack.

[插话]戴夫——你把担忧视为人身攻击。

I'm concerned.

我很担心。

Chris You do it like every five minutes.

克里斯 你每五分钟就做一次。

This was just two weeks after Todd died, so Dave was admittedly on high alert.

托德去世后仅两周，因此戴夫无疑处于高度戒备状态。

And by the end of the story, he sees it from Chris's perspective.

在故事的结尾，他从克里斯的角度看待这件事。

It's one of those irritating things that happens to people in recovery.

这是康复过程中发生的令人恼火的事情之一。

You act slightly off one day and everyone assumes you're using again.

有一天，你的行为稍微有些不对劲，每个人都认为你又在使用了。

Dave explains.

戴夫解释道。

The point of this story-- obviously, you're fine.

这个故事的重点是——显然，你很好。

The point of the story is this is something that addicts have to go through who are using, who are lying.

这个故事的要点是，这是瘾君子必须经历的事情，谁在使用，谁在撒谎。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

Like, they're covering up their shit or they just got clean and everybody is sure that they're still getting high.

就像，他们正在掩盖他们的粪便，或者他们刚刚干净了，每个人都确信他们仍然很兴奋。

Or in your situation-- you know, you're 4 and 1/2 years clean, but like, how do you think somebody should deal with that?

或者在你的情况下——你知道，你已经清白了 4 又 1/2 年，但是，你认为别人应该如何处理这个问题？

Because I bet there's a ton of people listening with very little--

因为我敢打赌有很多人在听，但他们却很少——

The next week they do Episode 142.

下周他们将拍摄第 142 集。

Normally they record the show on Friday night and Chris puts it online on Saturday morning.

通常他们在周五晚上录制节目，克里斯在周六早上将其发布到网上。

But that Friday, Chris gets home from a work trip to Texas and he's too exhausted to record the show.

但那个星期五，克里斯从德克萨斯州出差回家，他太累了，无法录制节目。

They agree to do it Saturday.

他们同意周六这样做。

Saturday comes around and Chris is fighting with Annie.

星期六到了，克里斯正在和安妮打架。

He tells Dave he's too upset to record the show.

他告诉戴夫他太沮丧了，无法录制这个节目。

He needs to go to the gym.

他需要去健身房。

Then after the gym, he needs another hour.

健身房结束后，他还需要一个小时。

Dave's getting pissed.

戴夫生气了。

He knows The Dopey Nation is expecting an episode.

他知道《笨蛋国家》正在期待一集。

They finally start recording late that night, around 11:00.

那天深夜，11:00 左右，他们终于开始录制。

Chris is lackluster.

克里斯毫无生气。

Dave's doing most of the work, providing most of the energy.

戴夫承担了大部分工作，提供了大部分能量。

And Chris keeps screwing up and saying things that they later have to bleep out, like where he went on the work trip or his sister's name, or Dave's last name.

克里斯总是搞砸，说一些后来不得不用声音说出来的事情，比如他出差去了哪里，或者他姐姐的名字，或者戴夫的姓氏。

It's amazing that Bob [INAUDIBLE] is driving round and thinks, you know who I should talk to?

令人惊讶的是，鲍勃 [听不清] 一边开车一边想，你知道我应该和谁谈谈吗？

Dave [BLEEP].

戴夫[哔]。

Why'd you say my last name?

你为什么说我的姓氏？

Now you have to bleep it.

现在你必须发出哔哔声。

Ah, fucking A.

啊，该死的A。

Let me put it in my notes.

让我把它记在我的笔记里吧。

It doesn't even work because we've changed it so much.

它甚至不起作用，因为我们已经改变了它太多。

[BLEEP] Now it's twice.

[BLEEP] 现在是两次了。

And what else?

还有什么？

What is wrong with you?

你怎么了？

Chris I don't know.

克里斯我不知道。

I'm stupid.

我很傻。

I can't-- [BLEEP] [BLEEP] --was.

我不能——[BLEEP][BLEEP]——是的。

I said it once, right?

我说过一次了吧？

I'll do it tonight.

我今晚就做。

Dana Chivvis Dave's worried that Chris has lost interest in Dopey, that he's too busy with the other things in his life now-- his girlfriend, his job, his doctorate.

达纳·奇维斯·戴夫担心克里斯对多皮失去了兴趣，担心他现在忙于生活中的其他事情——他的女朋友、他的工作、他的博士学位。

He starts wondering if Chris is going to quit.

他开始怀疑克里斯是否会退出。

And if he does, what will happen to the show?

如果他这样做了，节目会发生什么？

They finally sign off at 1:00 in the morning.

他们终于在凌晨 1:00 下班。

And stay strong, my brothers and sisters, in and out of recovery.

我的兄弟姐妹们，无论康复过程中还是康复过程中，都要保持坚强。

And toodles, I'm going to stop the call recorder.

太棒了，我要停止通话录音。

You can stay online.

您可以保持在线状态。

All right?

好的？

Hey, but you don't have to say toodles.

嘿，但你不必说toodles。

It's unnecessary.

这是没有必要的。

So hello and welcome to Dopey, the podcast about drugs, addiction, and dumb shit.

欢迎来到 Dopey，这是一个关于毒品、成瘾和蠢事的播客。

And I am Dave.

我是戴夫。

This is the next episode of Dopey, Episode 143-- a week later.

这是《Dopey》的下一集，第 143 集——一周后。

For those who aren't on Dopey social media, the worst thing that could have ever happened, happened, and Chris relapsed and died.

对于那些没有使用 Dopey 社交媒体的人来说，最糟糕的事情已经发生了，克里斯旧病复发并去世了。

And here I am alone at my dad's with one microphone plugged into the mixer.

我独自一人在我父亲家里，调音台上插着一个麦克风。

Chris overdosed three days after Episode 142.

第 142 集三天后，克里斯服药过量。

He'd been secretly using drugs again, probably for weeks.

他又开始秘密吸毒了，可能已经持续了好几个星期了。

After that last episode they recorded together, Dave and Chris fought.

在他们一起录制的最后一集之后，戴夫和克里斯发生了争执。

First, Chris put the show online without bleeping out Dave's last name.

首先，克里斯将节目放到网上，但没有说出戴夫的姓氏。

Dave was pissed.

戴夫很生气。

He went in and fixed it, but inadvertently inserted 10 minutes of silence into the middle of the episode, which made Chris mad.

他进去修复了它，但无意中在剧集中间插入了 10 分钟的沉默，这让克里斯很生气。

So that Monday they're fighting over text message all day.

所以那个星期一他们整天都在为短信而争吵。

Dave couldn't make sense of what was going on with Chris.

戴夫无法理解克里斯身上发生的事情。

He told Chris it was fine if he didn't want to do Dopey anymore.

他告诉克里斯，如果他不想再做傻瓜了，那也没关系。

But Chris said no, that wasn't it at all.

但克里斯说不，根本不是这样。

He loved making Dopey.

他喜欢制作多皮。

Dave believed him.

戴夫相信了他。

But meanwhile, Chris was also fighting with Annie.

但与此同时，克里斯也在和安妮打架。

She'd left their apartment and went to stay with her parents.

她离开了他们的公寓，去和父母住在一起。

Chris was distraught, crying.

克里斯心烦意乱，哭泣着。

He asked Dave to call and check in on him, so Dave called him after midnight and told them he'd check in again in the morning, went to bed.

他让戴夫打电话来检查他的情况，所以戴夫在午夜后给他打电话，告诉他们他早上会再次检查，然后就上床睡觉了。

He woke up at 6 AM to a text from Annie.

早上 6 点，他被安妮发来的短信吵醒。

She'd sent it in the middle of the night asking Dave if he'd check on Chris.

她是在半夜发来的，询问戴夫是否愿意查看克里斯的情况。

So at 6:30, Dave sent Chris a text message.

6:30，戴夫给克里斯发了一条短信。

A minute later, Chris wrote back, I'm good.

一分钟后，克里斯回信说，我很好。

As you like to hear, I'm sleeping, but not totally good.

正如你喜欢听到的那样，我正在睡觉，但睡得不太好。

Alive, nothing to worry about.

活着，没什么可担心的。

We can talk later.

我们可以稍后再谈。

At 10:30, Annie called Dave and told him that Chris was dead.

10点30分，安妮打电话给戴夫，告诉他克里斯死了。

In the next few days, Dave had to decide if he was going to do the show that week or ever again.

在接下来的几天里，戴夫必须决定他是要在那周还是再次参加这个节目。

In the 2 and 1/2 years of making Dopey together, they'd never missed a show.

在一起制作 Dopey 的 2 年又 1/2 年里，他们从未错过过任何一场演出。

Dave thought if he skipped this week, he'd be letting The Dopey Nation down.

戴夫认为，如果他缺席这周，他就会让傻瓜国家队失望。

It would be like your drug dealer not showing up.

这就好像你的毒贩没有出现一样。

And besides, drug users should know if somebody dies from a drug overdose.

此外，吸毒者应该知道是否有人因吸毒过量而死亡。

So three days after Chris's death, he recorded that episode of Dopey.

因此，克里斯去世三天后，他录制了 Dopey 的那一集。

And he calls Annie.

他打电话给安妮。

Hey, how are you?

嘿，你怎么样？

Dave You're on the show.

戴夫，你在节目中。

How are you feeling?

你感觉怎么样？

Annie Ah, pretty shitty.

安妮啊，真是太贱了。

They start to piece together the mystery of Chris's death.

他们开始拼凑克里斯的死亡之谜。

Dave had completely misread his behavior.

戴夫完全误解了他的行为。

In retrospect, he was probably high on the last episode of Dopey.

回想起来，他可能对《笨蛋》最后一集很兴奋。

He was probably high when he made that weird phone call to his sponsor.

当他给赞助商打那个奇怪的电话时，他可能很兴奋。

He was probably even high on the Artie Lange episode.

他甚至可能对阿蒂·兰格那一集很感兴趣。

Dave had been operating off the wrong story-- that Chris wasn't interested in Dopey anymore, but Annie hadn't.

戴夫一直在编造错误的故事——克里斯对多皮不再感兴趣，但安妮却没有。

She had noticed the strange ways Chris had been acting.

她注意到克里斯的行为举止很奇怪。

He kept taking the dog for walks, for instance, when the dog didn't need to go out.

例如，当狗不需要出去时，他就一直带狗去散步。

He was staying up all night and sleeping during the day.

他整夜不眠，白天睡觉。

She got suspicious he was using again, so she and Chris's sister arranged for a surprise drug test.

她怀疑他再次使用药物，因此她和克里斯的妹妹安排了一次突击药物测试。

On Monday, a guy showed up at their apartment and did a saliva test.

周一，一名男子出现在他们的公寓并进行了唾液测试。

That night, Annie told him she was going to stay with her parents.

那天晚上，安妮告诉他她要和父母住在一起。

Chris left before her mom arrived to pick her up.

克里斯在她妈妈来接她之前就离开了。

Now she realized it was because he couldn't wait any longer to get high.

现在她意识到这是因为他等不及要兴奋了。

Annie slept at her parents' house and went to work the next morning.

安妮在父母家睡觉，第二天早上去上班。

But soon after, she went home to check on Chris.

但不久之后，她回家查看克里斯的情况。

And I don't know if you want me to elaborate on how it was walking into the apartment.

我不知道你是否希望我详细说明一下它是如何走进公寓的。

Yeah, you might as well.

是的，你也可以。

Annie Or would you rather I not.

安妮 或者你愿意我不愿意。

No, you might as well.

不，你也可以。

Annie I walked in.

安妮，我走进去。

The first thing I see is his shoes, so I figure, OK, he's here.

我首先看到的是他的鞋子，所以我想，好吧，他在这里。

And the vape is there, the keys are there, so I look at the couch.

电子烟就在那里，钥匙也在那里，所以我看着沙发。

He's not on the couch.

他不在沙发上。

And I look at the bed, and he's not there.

我看了看床，他不在那儿。

And then I [INAUDIBLE] bathroom, I go into the bathroom.

然后我[听不清]浴室，我走进浴室。

He's not there.

他不在那儿。

And that's when I start panicking, and-- and as I walk into the bedroom, on the side of the bed, I found him dead.

就在那时我开始惊慌，当我走进卧室的床边时，我发现他死了。

I knew right away he was dead.

我立刻就知道他死了。

Everything after that is somewhat foggy.

之后的一切都有些云里雾里。

I knew we had Narcan at home, because he always kept Narcan everywhere.

我知道我们家里有麻醉剂，因为他总是把麻醉剂放在任何地方。

Narcan is a medication that can reverse an opioid overdose.

纳洛酮是一种可以逆转阿片类药物过量的药物。

You spray it up a person's nose.

你把它喷到一个人的鼻子上。

And I got the Narcan, but I knew it was too late.

我得到了纳洛酮，但我知道为时已晚。

I just had to do it, because it was like the only thing I could do it at the moment.

我必须这么做，因为这是我目前唯一能做的事情。

Chris had cocaine, Xanax, alcohol, and fentanyl in his system.

克里斯体内含有可卡因、阿普唑仑、酒精和芬太尼。

He was 33 years old.

他当时 33 岁。

Soon after, a package arrived for him at their apartment.

不久之后，一个包裹送到了他的公寓。

It was filled with drugs-- Percocet, cocaine, crack cocaine, heroin.

里面装满了毒品——Percocet、可卡因、快克可卡因、海洛因。

Annie scoured the apartment and Chris's car.

安妮搜查了公寓和克里斯的车。

She found a bunch of drug paraphernalia-- needles, some of which were used, and clean pee he'd ordered online.

她发现了一堆吸毒用具——针头，其中一些是用过的，还有他在网上订购的干净尿液。

Also, she found a small medicated patch that wasn't in any packaging.

此外，她还发现了一个没有任何包装的小药贴。

She sent a picture of it to Dave.

她把它的照片发给了戴夫。

They couldn't be sure, but Dave thought it was probably fentanyl.

他们无法确定，但戴夫认为这可能是芬太尼。

Annie has a theory about Chris's relapse.

安妮对克里斯的旧病复发有一个理论。

He had recently injured himself doing a high karate kick to try to impress her.

他最近为了给她留下深刻印象，在一次空手道高踢腿时受伤了。

Something in his leg popped, he was in terrible pain.

他的腿上有东西弹出来，他感到剧痛。

The doctor he saw wasn't his regular doctor and she thinks Chris got painkillers, fooled himself into thinking he could just take them for the pain and stop there.

他看的医生不是他常去的医生，她认为克里斯吃了止痛药，欺骗自己以为他可以服用止痛药，然后就到此为止。

If Annie's theory is right, then Chris started using again two weeks after Todd's death and was dead three weeks later.

如果安妮的理论是正确的，那么克里斯会在托德死后两周再次开始吸毒，并在三周后死亡。

I mean, when the news came, I got angry about it.

我的意思是，当这个消息传来时，我对此感到愤怒。

And then the next morning I woke up and-- you know, I felt the day between the last time I had spoken to him.

然后第二天早上我醒来——你知道，我感觉到距离我上次和他说话的日子已经过去了。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

I felt the distance, and I was like, it just felt like it was becoming real.

我感觉到了距离，我感觉它正在变得真实。

And then this morning I woke up, and I could hear his voice in my head like we were doing the show.

然后今天早上我醒来，我可以听到他的声音在我的脑海里，就像我们正在做节目一样。

I could hear his voice.

我能听到他的声音。

And then I kind of woke up and it was another day since I had spoken to him.

然后我就醒了，又是我没和他说话的一天。

And it just-- it's like liquid becoming solid.

就像液体变成固体一样。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

And it's like, you move away from this liquid feeling to this cold solid truth that he is never going to come back and it's over.

就好像，你从这种流动的感觉转向这个冷酷而坚实的事实，他永远不会回来，一切都结束了。

Dave hangs up with Annie.

戴夫挂断了安妮的电话。

And now he's got to end this episode of Dopey without Chris for the first time.

现在他必须第一次在没有克里斯的情况下结束这一集多皮。

We'll just end it the way we always end it.

我们会像往常那样结束它。

And we'll say, stay strong Dopey Nation.

我们会说，傻蛋国家要坚强。

And I said I would never say this, but Chris is dead, so I'll say toodles for Chris.

我说过我永远不会这么说，但克里斯已经死了，所以我会为克里斯说“toodles”。

And we love you.

我们爱你。

And everybody out there, please try to take care of yourself.

还有大家，请尽量照顾好自己。

All right.

好的。

Dana Chivvis Dave still makes Dopey-- by himself now.

戴夫·达纳·奇维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 现在仍然独自制作 Dopey。

He's pulling in bigger guests like the comedian Marc Maron and the rapper Killer Mike.

他吸引了喜剧演员马克·马龙和说唱歌手杀手迈克等更大的嘉宾。

He gets about 6,000 downloads an episode now, but it's not the same show.

他现在每集的下载量约为 6,000 次，但这不是同一个节目。

Dopey, as the nation knew it, is gone along with Chris.

正如全国人民所知，多皮和克里斯一起离开了。

It's not a buddy comedy anymore.

这不再是一部兄弟喜剧了。

It's more of a straight interview show.

这更像是一个直接的采访节目。

There are fewer war stories, and when there are, the tone is different.

战争故事少了，有的时候基调也不一样。

Dave is different.

戴夫不同。

There's this one moment in Episode 142, the last episode Dave and Chris did together, that I keep thinking about.

第 142 集中有一个时刻，即戴夫和克里斯一起表演的最后一集，我一直在想。

Chris had just played a voicemail from a listener named Mike, who tells a story about hiding his pee in the closet of his bedroom.

克里斯刚刚播放了一位名叫迈克的听众的语音邮件，他讲述了一个关于把他的小便藏在卧室壁橱里的故事。

It's not important why.

为什么并不重要。

And afterwards, they get into a conversation about whether it's OK to laugh at drug stories.

随后，他们开始讨论是否可以嘲笑毒品故事。

In the first episodes of Dopey, Dave was a solid yes on that-- that was the whole point of the show-- but now they've flipped sides.

在《笨蛋》的第一集中，戴夫对此表示肯定——这就是该剧的重点——但现在他们已经翻转了立场。

Chris says yes, it's fine to laugh.

克里斯说是的，笑就好。

And Dave says this--

戴夫这样说——

I think it's funny, but the fucked up thing-- and it might be the end of Dopey, right?

我觉得这很有趣，但这该死的事情——这可能就是《笨蛋》的终结，对吧？

Check this out.

看看这个。

Like, I just feel like this guy-- he's like everyone's laughing about everything they're doing.

就像，我只是觉得这个人——他就像每个人都在嘲笑他们所做的一切。

And then they can just drop dead.

然后他们就可以死了。

But what's the flipside?

但另一方面是什么？

Morbid reality the whole time until you die?

直到你死为止一直都是病态的现实吗？

No, dude.

不，伙计。

I think it's funny.

我觉得这很有趣。

I think the urine is funny.

我觉得尿液很有趣。

I think that shit is hysterical.

我认为这该死是歇斯底里的。

But it's like laughing on the train tracks and not seeing the fucking train coming.

但这就像在铁轨上大笑却没有看到该死的火车来了一样。

I don't think morbid reality is better.

我不认为病态的现实更好。

No, of course not.

不，当然不是。

I'm just saying it's sad, you know?

我只是说这很难过，你知道吗？

We laugh on the train tracks, but we have the right to laugh on the train tracks.

我们在铁轨上笑，但我们有权利在铁轨上笑。

It'd be much different if someone had never struggled.

如果一个人从来没有挣扎过，情况就会大不相同。

And the truth is that when we were struggling, the person who would tell a story that was terrifying and laugh at it, might have a better chance at reaching us and getting us to stop than the person who's morbid reality.

事实是，当我们陷入困境时，那些会讲一个可怕的故事并嘲笑它的人可能比那些面对病态现实的人更有机会接触到我们并让我们停下来。

I just feel responsible.

我只是觉得有责任。

I think it's obviously because of Todd's death that when we laugh at stuff, I just want to throw it out there that at any second, Mike could be dead.

我认为显然是因为托德的死，当我们嘲笑一些东西时，我只想把它扔出去，迈克随时都可能死了。

Because Mike's still using.

因为迈克还在使用。

And there's fentanyl everywhere.

到处都有芬太尼。

And it's killing everybody.

它正在杀死所有人。

That's what I'm saying.

这就是我所说的。

How's that?

怎么样？

Yes, no, of course.

是的，不，当然。

Yeah.

是的。

Dana Chivvis Dave told me, he always thought Dopey was good for him and Chris, for their sobriety.

达纳·奇维斯·戴夫告诉我，他一直认为多皮对他和克里斯有好处，对他们的清醒有好处。

He thought their creation would protect them, but it didn't.

他以为他们的创造物会保护他们，但事实并非如此。

Chris is gone.

克里斯走了。

Dopey, it turns out, was its own war story, playing out week by week.

事实证明，笨蛋是它自己的战争故事，每周都在上演。

So now on the show, Dave's mission has changed.

所以现在在节目中，戴夫的使命发生了变化。

The drug stories aren't just in service of a laugh now, they're in service of an urgent message.

现在，毒品故事不仅仅是为了搞笑，而是为了传递紧急信息。

You could die.

你可能会死。

Todd died.

托德死了。

Chris died.

克里斯死了。

You could die.

你可能会死。

Dana Chivvis is one of the producers of our show.

达纳·奇夫维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 是我们节目的制片人之一。

The Dopey podcast, you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.

Dopey 播客，无论您在哪里获得播客，都可以找到它。

Coming up, what happens when you go on the radio and make fun of a militant Islamist group who also happened to run your town, because you're in Syria.

接下来，当你在广播中取笑一个激进的伊斯兰组织时会发生什么，而这个组织恰好也管理着你的城镇，因为你在叙利亚。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.

当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。

Today's show-- Wartime Radio.

今天的节目——战时广播。

People in battlefields of one kind or another, using very DIY grassroots level radio or podcasting to try to make sense of what is happening around them.

人们在这样或那样的战场上，使用非常 DIY 的基层广播或播客来试图了解周围发生的事情。

We've arrived at Act Two of our program.

我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。

Act Two.

第二幕。

Good Morning, Kafrenbel.

早上好，卡夫伦贝尔。

So back in my 20s, I was a volunteer reporter at a community radio station in Washington, DC-- WPFW, a great station, that really did reflect the community.

早在我 20 多岁的时候，我就在华盛顿特区的一家社区广播电台担任志愿者记者——WPFW，一个很棒的电台，它确实反映了社区的情况。

DC was 2/3 African-American back then and also had immigrants from all over the world.

当时华盛顿特区有2/3的非洲裔美国人，还有来自世界各地的移民。

And the most popular show on the station, I remember, was the Bama hour.

我记得电视台最受欢迎的节目是《巴马时刻》。

It was a guy named Jerry Washington who would play songs and talk a lot about his niece.

这是一个名叫杰里华盛顿的人，他会演奏歌曲并谈论很多关于他侄女的事情。

There were Caribbean and Central American shows.

有加勒比海和中美洲的表演。

There was a show made by Iranians who missed the former Shah of Iran.

有一个伊朗人制作的节目，怀念伊朗前国王。

And then another show with Iranians who hated the former Shah of Iran.

然后还有另一场与憎恨伊朗前国王的伊朗人一起表演的节目。

There was a call-in poetry show.

有一场诗歌征召表演。

Listeners would call in and read their own poems and it was daily.

听众每天都会打电话来朗读自己的诗。

This was a daily call-in poetry show, that in my memory anyway, never seemed to have any kind of trouble getting callers.

这是一场每日来电诗歌秀，无论如何，在我的记忆中，接到来电似乎从来没有遇到过任何麻烦。

That's community radio.

那是社区广播。

Well, this next story is about somebody setting up a station like that-- a community station-- only they're doing it in a war zone, in Syria, in a small town called Kafrenbel.

嗯，下一个故事是关于有人建立了一个这样的电台——一个社区电台——只不过他们是在战区、叙利亚、一个叫卡夫伦贝尔的小镇里做的。

That's Kafrenbel, it's spelled with a K-- in the Northwest part of the country, not far from the Turkish border, rural town, surrounded by olive trees and fig trees, 30,000 people live there.

那是Kafrenbel，拼写为K——位于该国西北部，距离土耳其边境不远，乡村小镇，周围环绕着橄榄树和无花果树，居住着三万人。

And for almost eight years now, Kafrenbel's been in a kind of no-man's-land where different factions have fought.

近八年来，卡夫伦贝尔一直处于不同派系争斗的无人区。

And now militant Islamists are in charge.

现在激进的伊斯兰主义者掌权了。

Reporter Dana Ballout heard about the station years before she ever listened to it.

记者达纳·巴劳特 (Dana Ballout) 在收听该电台的几年前就听说了这个电台。

I crossed paths with the founder of the station back when I was covering the war in Syria for the Wall Street Journal.

当我为《华尔街日报》报道叙利亚战争时，我与该电台的创始人有过接触。

His name is Raed.

他的名字叫拉德。

Raed Fares.

拉德票价。

He lives in Kafrenbel.

他住在卡夫伦贝尔。

We never met in person.

我们从未见过面。

I was based across the border in Lebanon, because American press was mostly not allowed in Syria.

我驻扎在边境另一边的黎巴嫩，因为美国媒体基本上不允许进入叙利亚。

But when the regime struck a town near Kafrenbel or ISIS was advancing and I needed to know the details from the ground, me and my colleagues would pull out our giant spreadsheet of contacts and go through them.

但是，当政权袭击卡夫伦贝尔附近的一个城镇或伊斯兰国正在推进时，我需要从实地了解详细信息，我和我的同事就会拿出我们庞大的联系人电子表格并仔细检查它们。

Raed's was one of those names.

拉德就是其中之一。

I'd Skype him to confirm a death count or verify a location, then move on.

我会通过 Skype 与他确认死亡人数或核实位置，然后继续前进。

Raed was an activist.

拉德是一位活动家。

Before the radio station, he was sort of famous for these banners, these homemade signs written in big block letters on white sheets.

在广播电台之前，他因这些横幅而闻名，这些横幅是用大写字母写在白纸上的自制标志。

He would bring them to protests, post pictures of them on Facebook and Twitter.

他会带他们参加抗议活动，并在 Facebook 和 Twitter 上发布他们的照片。

I always saw them in my feeds.

我总是在我的动态中看到它们。

They were witty, like this one from Thanksgiving, a holiday Syria does not celebrate.

他们很机智，比如感恩节的这个，叙利亚不庆祝这个节日。

Black Friday special offer-- whoever, wherever you are, bring your enemy and come to fight in Syria for free.

黑色星期五特惠——无论是谁，无论你身在何处，带上你的敌人，免费来叙利亚作战。

Limited time offer.

限时优惠。

One of the most viral of these was after Caitlyn Jenner announced her new name Caitlyn, spelled with a C and not a K like the other women's names in her family.

其中最火爆的事件之一是凯特琳·詹纳 (Caitlyn Jenner) 宣布了她的新名字凯特琳 (Caitlyn)，该名字拼写为 C，而不是像她家族中其他女性的名字那样拼写为 K。

Raed gave her this shout-out.

雷德向她大声喊叫。

Caitlyn, he writes spelling it with a C, we would write Kafrenbel with a C, if it meant, like you, we could be free.

凯特琳，他用 C 来拼写它，我们会用 C 来写 Kafrenbel，如果这意味着像你一样，我们可以自由。

I knew Raed had his own radio station, Radio Fresh, though I never tuned in back then.

我知道 Raed 有他自己的广播电台，Radio Fresh，尽管当时我从未收听过。

But around Thanksgiving last year, I heard Raed had been killed.

但去年感恩节前后，我听说雷德被杀了。

It hit me harder than I expected.

这对我的打击比我预想的要严重。

Saddened by the news, I listened for the first time.

我第一次听到这个消息，感到很悲伤。

You can stream Radio Fresh on SoundCloud.

您可以在 SoundCloud 上播放 Radio Fresh。

There's hours and hours of programming.

有几个小时的编程时间。

Listening through was like reliving the war from the inside.

聆听就像从内部重温战争。

Seeing it in a totally different way from deep in the small town.

从小镇深处看到的景色完全不同。

It was incredibly alive, hyper-local, sometimes utterly ordinary, people complaining about their neighbors.

人们抱怨邻居，这是令人难以置信的活跃，超本地化，有时甚至是非常普通的。

But other times, so radical I couldn't believe they got away with it.

但其他时候，他们太过激进，我简直不敢相信他们竟然能逃脱惩罚。

Here's an example of that.

这是一个例子。

One of the first things I heard-- this satire program called [ARABIC] backstage with the president, where an actor impersonating president Bashar al Assad has made up conversations with an officer in his army.

我听到的第一件事就是这个名为[阿拉伯]总统后台的讽刺节目，其中一名演员冒充总统巴沙尔·阿萨德与他军队中的一名军官进行了对话。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout That's the actor making fun of the president's lisp, which is very pronounced.

[说阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 这是演员在取笑总统的口齿不清，口齿不清。

He's pretty spot-on.

他非常准确。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout I was shocked when I first heard this impression.

[说阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 当我第一次听到这个印象时我很震惊。

My knee jerk reaction was oh my god, how did you not go to jail for this?

我的本能反应是天哪，你怎么没有因此入狱？

Because in the past, that's what would have happened.

因为在过去，就会发生这样的事情。

Before listening to Radio Fresh, I had literally heard of two other places in the whole Arab world where anyone had tried to do political satire-- one was Lebanon, where I'm from, and the other Egypt, where for a while til the government ran him out of the country, they had their own version of Jon Stewart.

在听新鲜电台之前，我确实听说过整个阿拉伯世界还有两个地方有人试图做政治讽刺——一个是我的家乡黎巴嫩，另一个是埃及，在那里有一段时间，直到政府把他赶出了这个国家，他们有自己版本的乔恩·斯图尔特。

And now there were these guys out of a small town in northern Syria.

现在这些人来自叙利亚北部的一个小镇。

It completely blew my mind.

这完全让我大吃一惊。

I talked to a bunch of Raed's friends in Kafrenbel.

我和雷德在卡夫伦贝尔的一群朋友聊过。

They told me he was always a rebel.

他们告诉我他一直是个叛逆者。

Before the uprising against the Syrian regime, he would curse the president in a way no one else dared.

在反对叙利亚政权的起义之前，他会以其他人不敢的方式诅咒总统。

He mocked religious figures too.

他也嘲笑宗教人物。

His cousin told me this always made people super nervous.

他的表弟告诉我，这总是让人非常紧张。

Everyone in town knew him as the guy who got kicked out of med school.

镇上的每个人都知道他是被医学院开除的人。

Raed was a burly guy in his mid 40s, clean shaven, warm eyes, mischievous face.

拉德是个四十多岁的壮汉，胡子刮得干干净净，眼神温暖，脸上带着顽皮的表情。

He was sharp, taught himself English, ran a thriving small business.

他很敏锐，自学英语，经营着一家蓬勃发展的小企业。

One of his best friends, Hadi Abdullah, told me how Raed started the radio station.

他最好的朋友之一哈迪·阿卜杜拉 (Hadi Abdullah) 告诉我雷德是如何创办广播电台的。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter In our mosques, they have loudspeakers.

[阿拉伯语] 翻译 在我们的清真寺里，他们有扬声器。

These are the speakers for the call to prayer five times a day.

这些是每天五次呼吁祈祷的扬声器。

At one point, early in the war, the Syrian military showed up in Kafrenbel and started shooting protesters.

战争初期，叙利亚军队曾一度出现在卡夫伦贝尔并开始向抗议者开枪。

Raed wanted to get those soldiers to defect.

雷德想让那些士兵叛逃。

So he loaded up a bunch of recordings on a USB stick and had some friends at the mosque blast them over those speakers.

因此，他在 U 盘上加载了一堆录音，并让清真寺的一些朋友通过扬声器播放它们。

Anti- regime slogans like--

反政权口号如——

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter The regime is tricking you.

[阿拉伯语] 翻译 政权在欺骗你。

The regime is using you.

政权正在利用你。

Regime is killing your family.

政权正在杀害你的家人。

There are no terrorists here, everybody is civilian here.

这里没有恐怖分子，这里每个人都是平民。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter And the idea started from here.

[阿拉伯语] 翻译 这个想法就是从这里开始的。

And I was like, why am I limiting myself to the mosque only.

我想，为什么我只限于清真寺。

Why don't I start a radio station, where I could to just talk to people?

我为什么不创办一个广播电台，在那里我可以和人们交谈呢？

So shortly after, when Raed found himself meeting with international groups, including the US State Department, he pitched them his idea for a radio station.

不久之后，当雷德与包括美国国务院在内的国际组织会面时，他向他们提出了自己关于建立广播电台的想法。

There are always opportunities in war, and this one would be an unusual chance to push back on the rules, make fun of people they could have never made fun of before, an opportunity to blast out ideas like free speech and democracy to whoever tuned in to 90.0 FM.

战争中总是有机会，而这将是一个不寻常的机会，可以推翻规则，取笑他们以前从未取笑过的人，向任何收听 90.0 FM 的人大声疾呼言论自由和民主等思想。

This is a clip from the station's first few weeks on air, August 2013.

这是该电视台 2013 年 8 月播出前几周的剪辑。

Radio Fresh was based out of an old government building in Kafrenbel.

Radio Fresh 的总部位于卡夫伦贝尔的一座旧政府大楼内。

The studio was done up with shiny purple curtains for soundproofing.

工作室用闪亮的紫色窗帘装饰起来以隔音。

There was an ashtray on the table and lots of smoking while they were on the mic.

桌子上有一个烟灰缸，他们在麦克风前抽烟。

The host, who's talking about how to form neighborhood councils, has a thick local accent.

正在谈论如何组建居委会的主持人带着浓重的当地口音。

One of my favorite things about Radio Fresh-- it sounds rural, slangy, homegrown.

Radio Fresh 我最喜欢的事情之一就是它听起来乡村、俚语、土生土长。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout While I was charmed by the station from the very first clip I heard, the people it was actually made for-- the citizens of Kafrenbel-- many of them were against it in the beginning.

[说阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 虽然我从听到的第一个剪辑起就被这个电台迷住了，但它实际上是为卡夫伦贝尔的公民制作的，他们中的许多人一开始就反对它。

Here's Raed himself, on the second anniversary of Radio Fresh, one of the rare times he actually went on air.

这是 Raed 本人，在 Radio Fresh 两周年之际，这是他真正上台的罕见时间之一。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout He's saying, in the beginning, there was a lot of talk about how the money for the radio would have been better spent on aid for families in need.

[说阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 他说，一开始，有很多人讨论如何将广播的资金更好地用于援助有需要的家庭。

People were hungry.

人们很饿。

They didn't have clean water or electricity.

他们没有干净的水或电。

It seemed extravagant and frivolous to spend money on a radio show, but pretty early on, the station came up with a program that became indispensable throughout the village.

花钱看广播节目似乎有些奢侈和轻率，但很早就，电视台推出了一个节目，成为全村不可或缺的节目。

It was called The Observatory.

它被称为天文台。

Radio Fresh put 24/7 watchmen in tall buildings to keep an eye out for air strikes.

Radio Fresh 在高层建筑中安排了 24/7 的值班人员，以监视空袭。

As soon as they saw one, they radioed into the station, which would interrupt programming on, say, the nutritional benefits of lettuce--

他们一看到，就向电台发送无线电信号，这会中断有关生菜营养价值等节目的节目——

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout They're saying, planes are circling over Kafrenbel.

[阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 他们说，飞机正在卡夫伦贝尔上空盘旋。

Raed's response to the doubters was the radio isn't frivolous.

雷德对怀疑者的回应是，收音机并非轻浮。

It's about saving lives.

这是为了拯救生命。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout He's saying, if these airstrike warnings saved even one life, that would be worth the whole cost of the station.

[阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 他说，如果这些空袭警告能够挽救一条生命，那么整个空间站的成本就值得了。

Before the observatory, people used to jerry-rig their own version of this alert system-- buying a walkie talkie and eavesdropping on the regime's frequencies.

在天文台出现之前，人们常常偷工减料地安装自己版本的警报系统——购买对讲机并窃听该政权的频率。

It was expensive-- over $100.

它很贵——100多美元。

And parents hated how much the regime thugs would swear and cuss on the frequency.

父母们非常讨厌政权暴徒在频率上咒骂和咒骂。

They didn't like that the kids overheard.

他们不喜欢孩子们无意中听到的这些。

The Observatory was a clean version for the cost of a basic radio-- $5.

天文台是一个干净的版本，价格相当于一台基本收音机——5 美元。

The air raid warnings-- they were just one of a slew of super practical, you live in a war zone and here's how to survive of programs.

空袭警告——它们只是一系列超级实用的警告之一，你生活在战区，这里是如何生存的程序。

There was a medical show that teaches people how to administer first aid.

有一个医学节目教人们如何进行急救。

That show has episodes on chemical burns, meningitis in kids, how to treat head injuries--

该节目有关于化学烧伤、儿童脑膜炎、如何治疗头部受伤的剧集——

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout Here the host is saying when you think your skull is broken or when you see blood or a clear fluid coming from your ears or nose, get medical help immediately.

[阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 主持人在这里说，当您认为您的头骨破裂或当您看到耳朵或鼻子流出血液或透明液体时，请立即寻求医疗帮助。

Radio Fresh had language learning programs in case you had to flee the country.

Radio Fresh 提供语言学习计划，以防您不得不逃离该国。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Dana Ballout They're doing the alphabet in this episode of Teach Me Turkish.

[说阿拉伯语] Dana Ballout 他们在这一集中的《教我土耳其语》中学习字母表。

More than 3.5 million Syrian refugees have landed in Turkey the last eight years.

过去八年，超过 350 万叙利亚难民抵达土耳其。

They also taught French, English.

他们还教法语、英语。

And what I love about these programs is how the people teaching the language are actually not at all fluent in the language they're teaching, but you can hear how hard they're trying.

我喜欢这些项目的原因是，教授该语言的人们实际上并不流利地掌握他们所教授的语言，但你可以听到他们有多努力。

Dear listeners, welcome to the 11th episode of Teach Me English.

亲爱的听众，欢迎收看《教我英语》第11集。

Everyone I talked to about Radio Fresh brought up this one program, called the Complaints Show.

与我谈论新鲜电台的每个人都提到了这个节目，称为“投诉秀”。

It was Radio Fresh's version of a call-in show, except they couldn't actually have a call-in show, because the regime had cut off all the phone lines.

这是新鲜电台版本的来电节目，只不过他们实际上无法进行来电节目，因为政权切断了所有电话线。

So they put up a bunch of little black boxes with a Radio Fresh sticker on them, all around town.

因此，他们在城镇各处放置了一堆贴有 Radio Fresh 贴纸的小黑匣子。

People would drop in slips of paper with their answers to quiz shows, their comments and complaints.

人们会扔下一些纸条，上面写着智力竞赛的答案、评论和抱怨。

The host would choose one complaint each week to talk about.

主持人每周都会选择一项投诉进行讨论。

Often, it's very specific stuff.

通常，它是非常具体的东西。

At one point early on, a faction set up shop inside a school building, using it as a police station.

早些时候，一个派系在一所学校大楼内开设了商店，并将其用作警察局。

Parents were worried about sending their kids to school in a building shared with criminals and thieves.

家长们担心将孩子送到与犯罪分子和小偷共用的大楼里上学。

Plus, the police station made the school an easy target for the regime.

此外，警察局使学校很容易成为政权的目标。

Parents told the rebels their concerns, but nothing happened.

父母向叛乱分子表达了他们的担忧，但什么也没发生。

So they turned to Radio Fresh.

于是他们转向了 Radio Fresh。

Today, we have a complaint that there is a police station in the same building as a school, and that, the broadcaster says, defies logic.

今天，我们接到投诉称，学校和警察局位于同一栋大楼内，广播公司称这不符合逻辑。

Again, here's Raed's friend, Hadi.

这是拉德的朋友哈迪。

Some when the people inside the police station heard the episode on the radio, they came right away to us, and they told us, "we're willing to leave the school.

有的派出所里的人在广播里听到这件事后，立刻来找我们，告诉我们：“我们愿意离开学校。

Please, tell the families we're going to leave the place.

请告诉家人我们要离开这个地方。

We don't want any trouble against us." And they did.

我们不想遇到任何麻烦。”他们做到了。

They emptied the police station from all the militants that were there.

他们清空了警察局里的所有武装分子。

People complained about the price and quality of their bread.

人们抱怨面包的价格和质量。

Someone brought up their neighbor using a hole in the front yard as a bathroom, while his actual bathroom was broken.

有人提出他们的邻居用前院的一个洞作为浴室，而他的实际浴室是坏的。

The neighbor heard the episode and fixed his toilet.

邻居听到此事后修好了厕所。

When I first heard the Complaints Show, it felt pretty familiar.

当我第一次听到投诉节目时，感觉很熟悉。

We had a similar program in Lebanon, although not quite as small towny as the neighbor's toilet.

我们在黎巴嫩也有类似的项目，尽管不像邻居的厕所那么小镇。

But listening hour after hour, what I realized was that this Complaints Show was doing something besides solving practical local problems.

但听了一小时又一小时，我意识到这个投诉秀除了解决当地的实际问题之外，还在做一些事情。

It was also spreading a revolutionary idea, that you could voice your concerns, and hold people accountable, and get results.

它还传播了一种革命性的想法，即你可以表达你的担忧，让人们承担责任，并取得成果。

The guys at the station confirmed this was Raed's original mission for the show.

车站的工作人员证实这是拉德最初的节目任务。

This, in a place where the rules were so recently non-negotiable and you just had to keep your head down and deal with it.

在这个地方，最近规则是不容谈判的，你只需要低着头去处理它。

The Complaints Show was just one of the many programs, debates, kids shows, series on Islam doing this kind of work.

《投诉秀》只是从事此类工作的众多关于伊斯兰教的节目、辩论、儿童节目和系列节目之一。

One problem people had with the station from the beginning was that it was funded by the Americans, which, in the middle of a war where the US was not being particularly helpful, was not a good look.

人们从一开始就对该站提出的一个问题是，它是由美国人资助的，在战争期间，美国并没有特别提供帮助，这看起来不太好。

It's true.

这是真的。

Almost all the money for the station has come from the US State Department.

该站的几乎所有资金都来自美国国务院。

It's around $40,000 a month these days, which covers the salaries of 53 people.

现在每月大约 40,000 美元，可以支付 53 个人的工资。

It's a pretty big operation.

这是一个相当大的手术。

When listeners accuse the station of being a mouthpiece for the Americans, Raed was happy to address it head on.

当听众指责该电台是美国人的喉舌时，雷德很乐意正面回应。

This is him on the air.

这是他在直播中。

He says the response is very simple.

他说回应非常简单。

Have you heard anything on Radio Fresh that sounds like we're supporting the Americans?

您在新鲜电台中听到过任何听起来像是我们支持美国人的内容吗？

We're always trying to prod them on the radio, with our banners.

我们总是试图通过广播和横幅来刺激他们。

We have opinions about them, and we don't hide them.

我们对他们有意见，我们不会隐藏它们。

Raed's vision of democracy meant everyone in Kafrenbel had an equal say in what was happening, including women.

拉德的民主愿景意味着卡夫伦贝尔的每个人对正在发生的事情都有平等的发言权，包括妇女。

He wanted their voices on the radio too.

他也希望他们的声音出现在广播中。

Although that was such a daring idea for Kafrenbel, even his friend Hadi wondered whether it was possible.

尽管这对卡夫伦贝尔来说是一个大胆的想法，但就连他的朋友哈迪也想知道这是否可行。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter And I was like, how?

[说阿拉伯语] 翻译 我当时想，怎么样？

He was like, "Easy.

他说：“简单。

You find women, we hire them, we train them."

你找到女性，我们雇用她们，我们培训她们。”

This was bold, because almost no women in the village worked outside the home.

这是大胆的，因为村里几乎没有妇女外出工作。

They took care of the kids and the homes.

他们照顾孩子和家庭。

That was it.

就是这样。

And it was bold because of who was running Kafrenbel at the time.

这是大胆的，因为当时谁在经营 Kafrenbel。

Raed was always offending the local leaders, including just about everyone who was in charge of Kafrenbel over the last eight years.

拉德总是冒犯当地领导人，包括过去八年里几乎所有负责卡夫伦贝尔的人。

First, the Free Syrian Army was offended by a banner, so they came to the radio station and kidnapped two guys.

首先，叙利亚自由军被横幅冒犯了，所以他们来到广播电台绑架了两个人。

Next, ISIS attacked the station in 2013.

接下来，伊斯兰国于 2013 年袭击了该站。

A couple weeks later, they shot Raed multiple times, almost killing him.

几周后，他们向拉德开了多次枪，几乎杀死了他。

But when Raed was deciding to put women on the air in 2015, two years after Radio Fresh had started, Kafrenbel was run by a new extremist Islamist group, Nusra, al-Qaeda's branch in Syria.

但当 Raed 于 2015 年（即 Radio Fresh 创办两年后）决定让女性节目播出时，Kafrenbel 由一个新的极端伊斯兰组织 Nusra（基地组织在叙利亚的分支）运营。

Raed knew they wouldn't like this, but he went for it anyway.

雷德知道他们不会喜欢这样，但他还是这么做了。

That's Hiba Abboud introducing the afternoon newscast.

这是希巴·阿布德 (Hiba Abboud) 介绍下午的新闻节目。

She's now the director of the women's division of Radio Fresh.

她现在是Radio Fresh 女性部门的主管。

She talked to me from the women's office over Skype.

她在妇女办公室通过 Skype 与我交谈。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter I never imagined that I would hear my own voice, or that I would be a reporter.

[说阿拉伯语] 翻译 我从未想象过我会听到自己的声音，或者我会成为一名记者。

Never.

绝不。

Hiba was a young newlywed who had just moved to town when she heard that Radio Fresh was recruiting women to go on air.

希巴是一位年轻的新婚夫妇，她刚搬到城里，就听说新鲜电台正在招募女性来广播。

She'd been listening to the radio and was curious what it was like to make it.

她一直在听广播，很好奇制作它是什么感觉。

So she, along with 20 other women, went to the first training.

于是她和其他 20 名女性一起参加了第一次培训。

They did icebreakers, spent three days on voice technique.

他们进行了破冰活动，花了三天时间学习声音技巧。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter I don't know if you know this one, but when you put your pen in your mouth, this is a way to open up your voice.

[说阿拉伯语] 翻译 我不知道你是否知道这个，但是当你把笔放在嘴里时，这是一种打开你的声音的方式。

I did not know this one.

我不知道这个。

Neither did most of the people at This American Life.

《This American Life》的大多数人也不这么认为。

And how to be as a presenter, and how to take breaths from your belly.

以及如何成为一名演讲者，以及如何用腹部呼吸。

Hiba passed the training and began working at the station, made news shows, programs about women's rights, interviews with local women who had lost their husbands in the war.

希巴通过了培训，开始在电视台工作，制作新闻节目、有关妇女权利的节目，采访在战争中失去丈夫的当地妇女。

By the time Raed put Hiba and the other women on the air in 2015, the Islamists in charge of Kafrenbel, Nusra, already hated Radio Fresh.

当 Raed 在 2015 年让 Hiba 和其他女性播出时，负责 Kafrenbel、Nusra 的伊斯兰主义者已经讨厌 Radio Fresh。

The station poked fun at them in all sorts of ways.

电视台以各种方式取笑他们。

For being illiterate, hypocritical.

因为不识字，虚伪。

One satire depicted their religious police rushing people to the mosque without actually understanding the rules of prayer.

一部讽刺作品描绘了他们的宗教警察在没有真正理解祈祷规则的情况下将人们赶到清真寺。

Nusra assigned people to listen to Radio Fresh in shifts.

Nusra 指派人员轮流收听 Radio Fresh。

They issued regular warnings and threats to the station whenever they heard something they didn't like.

每当他们听到不喜欢的内容时，他们就会定期向电视台发出警告和威胁。

Now Radio Fresh got a lot of warnings for having women on air.

现在，Fresh 广播电台因播出女性节目而收到了很多警告。

Nusra considered their voices shameful, a form of nakedness.

努斯拉认为他们的声音是可耻的，是一种赤裸裸的表现。

Finally, in January 2016, Nusra had had enough.

2016 年 1 月，努斯拉终于受够了。

They burst in one morning to shut the station down, broke down the door, faces covered, carrying machine guns.

一天早上，他们冲进来关闭了车站，破门而出，蒙着脸，拿着机枪。

They took everything-- laptops, the transmitter, Hadi's hookah, flash drives.

他们拿走了一切——笔记本电脑、发射器、哈迪的水烟袋、闪存驱动器。

Hiba and the other women watched the Nusra guys ransack the main station from another building, the women's office just up the hill.

希巴和其他妇女看着努斯拉人从另一栋大楼洗劫了中央车站，妇女办公室就在山上。

And we looked out the window when we heard a lot of noise.

当我们听到很多噪音时，我们向窗外望去。

So us girls, we just started gathering everything and hiding it.

所以我们女孩，我们刚刚开始收集所有东西并将其隐藏起来。

Because we said, you know, they were going to come to us next.

因为我们说过，你知道，他们接下来会来找我们。

They quickly rearranged the office to make it look more like a home.

他们很快重新布置了办公室，让它看起来更像一个家。

So we were preparing lies, you know, just in case that came in and they started questioning us.

所以我们正在准备谎言，你知道，以防万一他们开始质疑我们。

And you know, we were going to say like, "Oh, we're just girls here hanging out at her house, and we're just having breakfast together.

你知道，我们会说，“哦，我们只是在她家里闲逛的女孩，我们只是一起吃早餐。

A morning coffee or a mate.

早晨的咖啡或伴侣。

But they just took the stuff and they left.

但他们只是拿了东西就走了。

They didn't even come to us.

他们甚至没有来找我们。

Nusra blindfolded Raed and took him to the infamous al-Uqab Prison.

努斯拉蒙住了雷德的眼睛，把他带到了臭名昭著的乌卡布监狱。

They left two armed men at the station to keep anyone from coming in.

他们在车站留下了两名武装人员，以防止任何人进来。

Every day, Hiba would finish her housework and get dressed to go in for her usual shift, but there wasn't anywhere to go anymore.

每天，希芭都会做完家务，穿好衣服去上班，但已经没有地方可去了。

People started spreading rumors that Radio Fresh was over.

人们开始散布新鲜电台已经结束的谣言。

Days passed.

日子过去了。

Nusra finally reached an agreement with Radio Fresh.

Nusra 最终与 Radio Fresh 达成协议。

They'd let Raed go and return the equipment, under a few conditions.

在满足一些条件的情况下，他们会放走拉德并归还设备。

First, that the radio station wouldn't play music.

首先，广播电台不会播放音乐。

Here's Raed talking about the agreement.

Raed 正在谈论该协议。

In English, actually, in an interview with the CBC.

实际上是在接受 CBC 采访时用英语说的。

They started to say it's forbidden because it's haram in Islam shariah law.

他们开始说这是被禁止的，因为它在伊斯兰教法中是非法的。

In their opinion, it's haram.

在他们看来，这是非法的。

Haram, sinful.

哈拉姆，有罪的。

Nusra had been on Raed's case about playing music for a while.

努斯拉（Nusra）处理拉德（Raed）有关演奏音乐的案件已有一段时间了。

He's cheerfully defiant.

他很高兴地挑衅。

It was like two years they're asking me to stop playing music, but I refused.

两年来他们要求我停止演奏音乐，但我拒绝了。

Finally, because they attacked the radio station more than three times and kidnapped me like three times--

最后，因为他们袭击了广播电台三次以上，绑架了我三次——

Kidnapped me like three times, he's saying.

他说，绑架了我大约三回。

Then I stopped playing the music, but I started to play sarcastic thing instead of that.

然后我停止播放音乐，但我开始播放讽刺的东西。

Like animal sounds, like sheep, like birds, hogs, dogs, chicken, and everything.

像动物的声音，像羊的声音，像鸟的声音，猪的声音，狗的声音，鸡的声音，等等。

[ANIMAL SOUNDS] Dana Ballout Animal sounds.

[动物声音] Dana Ballout 动物声音。

Radio Fresh replaced the jingles leading into each segment with animal noises.

Radio Fresh 用动物的叫声取代了每个片段中的叮当声。

[ROOSTER CROWING] There was a rooster in the morning.

[公鸡啼鸣] 早上有一只公鸡。

Birds during the day.

白天有鸟。

Man [SPEAKING ARABIC]

男人 [说阿拉伯语]

Dana Ballout And after dark, of course--

达纳·巴奥特 天黑后，当然——

[CRICKETS CHIRPING] --crickets.

[蟋蟀鸣叫]——蟋蟀。

The CBC interviewer asked Raed.

CBC 采访者询问 Raed。

What's the point of that?

那有什么意义呢？

Why are you doing that?

你为什么要这么做？

When the people hear animal voices, they will ask, "what's going on with Radio Fresh?" And the answer will be, the Islamic armed groups banned the music from Radio Fresh because it's haram.

当人们听到动物的声音时，他们会问：“Radio Fresh 是怎么回事？”答案是，伊斯兰武装组织禁止新鲜电台播放音乐，因为它是非法的。

I want them just to think, to use their minds.

我希望他们能够思考，运用他们的思想。

Is it really haram?

这真的是非法的吗？

You can move the minds.

你可以移动思想。

You can move the ideas.

你可以转移想法。

Nusra's other big demand was for Radio Fresh to take women off the air completely.

Nusra 的另一大要求是让 Radio Fresh 完全停止播出女性节目。

Raed had a creative fix for this one too.

Raed 对此也有一个创造性的解决方案。

Again, here's Hiba.

再说一遍，这是希巴。

So we were having a meeting, and he came and he told us that they wanted to transform our voices.

所以我们正在开会，他来了，他告诉我们他们想改变我们的声音。

You know, now we were going to use something to change our voices from female voices to male, and that you wouldn't be able to tell that it was a female in the first place.

你知道，现在我们要用一些东西把我们的声音从女声变成男声，而且你一开始就无法辨别出这是一个女声。

[SPEAKING ARABIC] Interpreter So when we first heard what our voices sounded like, we were laughing.

[说阿拉伯语] 口译员 因此，当我们第一次听到我们的声音时，我们都笑了。

And it was so strange, because we were like, really?

这很奇怪，因为我们就像，真的吗？

This is what people are going to listen to?

这就是人们要听的吗？

But after a while, it just became normal, and it literally got to the point where I could tell you which girl was which voice.

但过了一段时间，它就变得正常了，我真的可以告诉你哪个女孩是哪个声音。

But these days, Hiba just feels annoyed at the voice.

但这些天，希巴只是对这个声音感到恼火。

And because the voice is so hard to listen to, Radio Fresh reduced how long women speak on the air to a fraction of what it was.

由于声音太难听，Radio Fresh 将女性在广播中讲话的时间缩短到了一小部分。

By this past fall, the Assad regime had retaken swaths of the country.

到去年秋天，阿萨德政权已经夺回了该国的大片地区。

And in many other places, including Kafrenbel, extremists like Nusra were gaining power.

在包括卡夫伦贝尔在内的许多其他地方，像努斯拉阵线这样的极端分子正在获得权力。

People like Raed, people who didn't want Assad or the extremists, they barely held any ground.

像拉德这样的人，那些不想要阿萨德或极端分子的人，他们几乎没有站稳脚跟。

And finally, around Thanksgiving, Raed was assassinated.

最后，在感恩节前后，雷德被暗杀。

I read the news in a tweet, and later heard the whole story.

我在推特上看到了这个消息，后来才听到整个故事。

He was in a car with two colleagues from the radio station.

他和广播电台的两名同事坐在一辆车里。

It was around noon.

当时是中午左右。

A van pulled up next to them and shot and killed Raed and his friend Hamoud Junaid, then drove off.

一辆面包车停在他们旁边，枪杀了拉德和他的朋友哈穆德·朱奈德，然后开走了。

While Nusra never claimed responsibility for the assassination, the whole town blamed them.

虽然努斯拉从未声称对这次暗杀负责，但整个城镇都指责他们。

Everyone I knew who had reported on Syria was talking about Raed that day, posting pictures of him, writing that his death was the end of the Syrian Revolution.

我认识的所有报道过叙利亚的人那天都在谈论拉德，贴出他的照片，写道他的死是叙利亚革命的结束。

Because Raed was one of a handful of people in Syria who was still living by the principles of the revolution.

因为拉德是叙利亚少数仍然遵循革命原则的人之一。

He was still talking about non-violent resistance and democracy, civil society and freedom.

他还在谈论非暴力抵抗和民主、公民社会和自由。

Raed was there from the very first protests in Syria, and stuck by his principles while so many others either died or fell off the train.

拉德从叙利亚第一次抗议活动开始就在那里，并坚持自己的原则，而其他许多人要么死亡，要么从火车上摔下来。

Now, he too was gone.

现在，他也走了。

Hiba got the news over WhatsApp.

Hiba 通过 WhatsApp 得知了这一消息。

At that point, I just wasn't aware of anything anymore.

那时，我已经什么都不知道了。

I never thought that moment was going to come.

我从没想过那一刻会到来。

I never imagined that someone like Raed could die.

我从没想过像拉德这样的人会死。

Like, no, he would be-- he would be one of the ones that stayed.

就像，不，他会是——他会是留下来的人之一。

The funeral lasted three days.

葬礼持续了三天。

Hundreds of people came.

来了数百人。

There were programs on Radio Fresh remembering Raed and Hamoud, their childhoods, talking to their friends, chatting about their legacy.

新鲜电台有一些节目纪念拉德和哈穆德的童年，与他们的朋友交谈，谈论他们的遗产。

After Raed's death, you can still hear glimpses of Radio Fresh's classic dark humor.

Raed 去世后，您仍然可以听到 Radio Fresh 经典黑色幽默的一瞥。

They continue to make fun of the president and the local factions.

他们继续取笑总统和当地派系。

Here's a radio drama about a local guy partitioning his house in Kafrenbel to host refugees.

这是一部关于一个当地人将他在卡夫伦贝尔的房子隔开来收容难民的广播剧。

But these refugees aren't displaced Syrian women and children.

但这些难民并不是流离失所的叙利亚妇女和儿童。

It turns out, no, he wants to host French people fleeing their own country after the Yellow Vest protests, in particular, beautiful French women.

事实证明，不，他想接待在黄背心抗议后逃离自己国家的法国人，特别是美丽的法国女性。

"Mary, Sonya, Emily sleeping in the streets?

“玛丽、索尼娅、艾米丽睡在街上？

Not on my watch." I found the episode hilarious, a sign that Raed's spirit was well and alive at Radio Fresh.

不在我的管辖范围内。”我发现这一集很搞笑，这表明拉德的精神在新鲜电台中表现得很好。

I wondered if Raed's friend, Hadi, felt the same way.

我想知道雷德的朋友哈迪是否也有同样的感觉。

Do you still feel that?

你还这么觉得吗？

Do you still feel that at the radio station?

你在广播电台还有这种感觉吗？

Yeah, I don't think things will be the same again.

是的，我认为事情不会再像以前一样了。

I mean, despite all my attempts.

我的意思是，尽管我做了所有的努力。

Meanwhile, we're trying to manufacture a laugh, but our hearts are not the same.

与此同时，我们试图制造笑声，但我们的心不一样。

I don't wanna be pessimistic, but this is the truth.

我不想悲观，但这就是事实。

There's a talk that Raed gave two years ago at the Oslo Freedom Forum.

两年前，雷德在奥斯陆自由论坛上发表了一次演讲。

He opens with footage of the aftermath of a bombing, describing the smell of burned bodies, of guns.

他以爆炸后果的镜头开始，描述了烧焦尸体和枪支的气味。

The audience is rapt and Raed is gripping.

观众全神贯注，拉德也扣人心弦。

But he also looks very tired of trying to convince these Westerners in peaceful Norway to care about the more than 500,000 Syrians who have died in this conflict and the millions that remain.

但他似乎也厌倦了试图说服生活在和平挪威的西方人关心在这场冲突中丧生的超过 50 万叙利亚人以及数百万人。

And yet, there he is.

然而，他就在那里。

He hadn't given up.

他没有放弃。

He ends his speech saying, "There is nothing prettier than a flower that defies death, chaos, and destruction, and instead blooms and radiates hope.

他在演讲结束时说道：“没有什么比一朵鲜花更美丽的了，它反抗死亡、混乱和毁灭，反而绽放并散发着希望。

Yeah, just like Radio Fresh.

是的，就像新鲜电台一样。

Dana Ballout.

达纳·巴奥特。

She's a filmmaker and a producer at the podcast Kerning Cultures.

她是一名电影制片人和播客 Kerning Cultures 的制片人。

That's Kerning with a K, Kerning Cultures, which run stories like this one from the Middle East.

这就是 Kerning with a K，Kerning Cultures，它运行着类似来自中东的故事。

Last year, Radio Fresh lost its main source of funding when the United States withdrew stabilization aid to Syria.

去年，当美国撤回对叙利亚的稳定援助时，新鲜电台失去了主要资金来源。

The employees worked without pay for five months.

员工们已经无薪工作了五个月。

I guess that's what the US government does these days, is just ask people to work without pay everywhere.

我想这就是美国政府现在所做的，就是要求人们到处无薪工作。

Anyway, then they found some temporary funding, but that runs out in March.

不管怎样，他们后来找到了一些临时资金，但到了三月份就用完了。

They're looking for new ways to stay afloat.

他们正在寻找新的维持生计的方法。

Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Sean Cole.

图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Sean Cole 制作。

The people who put our show together includes Elna Baker, Dana Chivvis, Aviva DeKornfeld, Jarrett Floyd, Damien Graef, Michelle Harris, Seth Lind, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Raimondo, Nadia Reiman, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.

制作我们节目的人员包括 Elna Baker、Dana Chivvis、Aviva DeKornfeld、Jarrett Floyd、Damien Graef、Michelle Harris、Seth Lind、Stowe Nelson、Katherine Raimondo、Nadia Reiman、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。

Our managing editors-- Susan Burton and David Kestenbaum.

我们的执行编辑——苏珊·伯顿和大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆。

Special thanks today to our interpreters, Saphe Shamoun, Baraa Ktiri, and Hany Hawasly.

今天特别感谢我们的口译员 Saphe Shamoun、Baraa Ktiri 和 Hany Hawasly。

Also thanks today Dr. Ajay Manhapra, Maia Szalavitz, Andrew Leland, Andy Lanset, Paul Wilson, Neil Verma, Jason Loviglio, Hugh Chignell, Dr. Brian Goldman, Rami Gares, Abdallah Salloum, Abdul wareth Al bakkour, John Jaeger, Isam Khatib, Raja Abdulrahim, and Blueprint Postproduction.

今天还要感谢 Ajay Manhapra 博士、Maia Szalavitz、Andrew Leland、Andy Lanset、Paul Wilson、Neil Verma、Jason Loviglio、Hugh Chignell、Brian Goldman 博士、Rami Gares、Abdallah Salloum、Abdul wareth Al bakkour、John Jaeger、Isam Khatib、Raja Abdulrahim 和 Blueprint Postmaking。

Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to any of our archive of over 600 programs for absolutely free.

我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费收听我们存档的 600 多个节目中的任何一个。

This American Life is delivered to the public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

You know, last weekend, he and I were up all night, talking in his kitchen.

你知道，上周末，我和他彻夜未眠，在厨房里聊天。

Morning comes, his wife came downstairs, and I don't know.

早晨到了，他的妻子下楼来了，我也不知道。

Torey panicked.

托雷惊慌失措。

He just blurted--

他只是脱口而出——

Oh, we're just girls here hanging out.

哦，我们只是在这里闲逛的女孩。

We're just having breakfast together, morning coffee or a mate.

我们只是一起吃早餐、早上喝咖啡或者是朋友。

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。