666: The Theme That Shall Not Be Named - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #666 | January 18, 2019 666: The Theme That Shall Not Be Named Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 666 集 | 2019年1月18日 666：不能点名的主题 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而生，为被聆听而设计。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass There's this prayer hotline that a group called The Satanic Missionary Society of Olympia, Washington started.
序言： 序言 Ira Glass 有一条祈祷热线，是由华盛顿州奥林匹亚撒旦传教士协会发起的。
It's like a regular prayer hotline except, of course, instead of praying to God, you leave a voicemail message, and then they'll pray to Satan for you.
这就像常规的祈祷热线，只不过，当然，你不是向上帝祈祷，而是留下语音邮件，然后他们会为你向撒旦祈祷。
If you want, they'll post your message to the internet so others will also pray to Satan for you.
如果你愿意，他们会将你的信息发布到互联网上，这样其他人也会为你向撒旦祈祷。
And with almost no publicity, like from the very start, people called.
几乎没有任何宣传，就像从一开始，人们就打电话来。
Like this was serving a need that was just waiting for some forward-thinking, devilish entrepreneur.
就像这只是为了满足一些有远见的、邪恶的企业家的需求。
People definitely had stuff that they wanted that you can't turn to God for.
人们肯定有他们想要的东西，但你无法向上帝求助。
Hey, how's it going?
嘿，怎么样？
Basically, a couple-- about a month or two ago, my apartment got robbed.
基本上，一对夫妇——大约一两个月前，我的公寓被抢劫了。
I still haven't figured anything out, or where any of my stuff is at.
我仍然没有弄清楚任何事情，也不知道我的东西在哪里。
Basically, I just want the people who stole my shit to suffer for it.
基本上，我只是想让那些偷了我屎的人为此受苦。
Fair enough, I think.
我认为这很公平。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Hello, Satanists everywhere.
你好，世界各地的撒旦教徒。
I'm calling to put a hex on the 1230 Club in Olympia, Washington, because they're just assholes.
我打电话是想对华盛顿州奥林匹亚的 1230 俱乐部施咒，因为他们都是混蛋。
Because they start blasting the music really early every night.
因为他们每天晚上很早就开始播放音乐。
New Year's Eve tonight, and they're already, like, starting at 6:00 in the evening.
今晚是除夕夜，他们已经从晚上 6:00 开始了。
Please make the 1230 Club go out of business, but make sure everybody that works there goes deaf, like, from playing their music so loud first.
请让 1230 俱乐部歇业，但要确保在那里工作的每个人都聋了，比如，先把音乐放得这么大声。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Hello.
你好。
I would like all of my enemies to suffer.
我希望我所有的敌人都受苦。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Really does not get more concise than that last one.
真的没有比最后一个更简洁的了。
There are people who call as a joke.
有人打电话开玩笑。
One guy called to ask for one more Shrek sequel.
一个人打电话要求再拍一部《怪物史莱克》续集。
There's an occasional drunk dial to Satan.
偶尔会有一个喝醉酒的电话打给撒旦。
Have a very Satanic day.
祝你度过非常撒旦的一天。
Ira Glass And there are people who don't seem to understand the difference between the stuff you should be asking Satan for, and the stuff you ask God for.
Ira Glass：有些人似乎不明白你应该向撒旦祈求的东西和你向上帝祈求的东西之间的区别。
Hello.
你好。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
I'm calling for you to help me.
我呼唤你来帮助我。
I have an interview tomorrow.
我明天有一个面试。
I'm trying to get my first job ever.
我正在努力找到我的第一份工作。
I'm 16.
我16岁了。
So please pray to our Dark Lord, and hopefully, I might get this job.
所以请向我们的黑魔王祈祷，希望我能得到这份工作。
Did you get that?
你明白了吗？
Pray to our Dark Lord, and hopefully, I might get this job.
向我们的黑魔王祈祷，希望我能得到这份工作。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Ira Glass There's a teenager who calls to ask for a hex on a tattletale named Matt.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 有一个青少年打电话来，要求对一个名叫马特 (Matt) 的流言蜚语者施以咒语。
The phone message ends with the most cheerful "hail Satan" I have ever heard.
电话留言以我听过的最欢快的“撒旦万岁”结束。
Thank you!
谢谢你！
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Ira Glass I think one of my favorite things about these calls is to hear people just toss that off, so casually.
Ira Glass 我认为关于这些电话，我最喜欢的事情之一就是听到人们只是随意地把它扔掉。
Like, that's a thing we say.
就像我们说的那样。
Thank you and hail Satan.
谢谢你并向撒旦致敬。
Have a great day.
祝你有美好的一天。
But in the end, the meat and potatoes of this public service phone line is vengeance and relief.
但最终，这条公共服务电话线的主要内容是复仇和救济。
Or, at least, the level of vengeance that you can get with a phone call, the kind of relief you get by wishing for something.
或者，至少，你可以通过电话获得报复的程度，通过希望得到某事而得到的那种解脱。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
This is [BLEEP].
这是[哔]。
And I would like to put a hex on [BLEEP], because he's a really big asshole, and all my friends hate him.
我想对[BLEEP]施咒，因为他是个大混蛋，我所有的朋友都讨厌他。
And he told me that he was going to kill me, my daughter, and my cat.
他告诉我他要杀了我、我的女儿和我的猫。
And he poured piss all over my car and my front porch, and he's just a piece of shit.
他把尿撒在我的车和前廊上，他就是一坨屎。
Please put a hex on him.
请对他施咒。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Hi, guys.
嗨，大家好。
I'm a teenager, and I am really in a sticky situation.
我是一个青少年，我的处境确实很棘手。
I need you guys to pray that-- well, I think I'm pregnant.
我需要你们祈祷——好吧，我想我怀孕了。
And I need you guys to pray against the pregnancy.
我需要你们为怀孕祈祷。
And if there is a baby inside of me, for Satan to kill it.
如果我体内有一个婴儿，撒旦就会杀死它。
Because I can't have a baby right now.
因为我现在还不能生孩子。
So I'm turning to Satan, and he is the only answer I have right now.
所以我转向撒旦，他是我现在唯一的答案。
So I'm just overwhelmed.
所以我只是不知所措。
So call me when you get the chance.
所以一有机会就给我打电话。
So thank you so much.
非常感谢。
Hail Satan, right?
撒旦万岁，对吗？
OK, thank you.
好的，谢谢。
Goodbye.
再见。
We heard about the Satanic prayer line on KCRW's podcast Here Be Monsters, and thanks to them for that.
我们在 KCRW 的播客 Here Be Monsters 中听说了撒旦祈祷词，并为此感谢他们。
I reached out to the guy who started the prayer line on the phone at 8:00 at night, after his kids were in bed.
晚上 8:00，当他的孩子们都上床睡觉后，我联系了那个在电话里开始祈祷的人。
He's the primary caretaker.
他是主要看护者。
One's four, one's 17 months.
一个4岁，一个17个月。
His name is Chris Allert, and he says the prayer line really started as a lark after he got annoyed with a local Christian group in Olympia, where he lives, that he says wouldn't let up with their proselytizing.
他的名字叫克里斯·阿勒特（Chris Allert），他说，在他对他所居住的奥林匹亚当地的一个基督教团体感到恼火之后，他说祈祷队伍实际上只是为了好玩，他说该团体不会放松他们的传教活动。
He doesn't believe in God or in Satan.
他不相信上帝，也不相信撒旦。
He started this out of curiosity, to see who would call.
他出于好奇而开始这样做，想看看谁会打电话来。
And then when the voicemails started rolling in, he saw, oh, people are taking this really seriously.
然后当语音邮件开始滚滚而来时，他看到，哦，人们真的很认真地对待这件事。
And really, it wasn't so clear what to do with that.
事实上，目前还不清楚该怎么办。
Yeah, they were really touching, some of them.
是的，他们中的一些人真的很感人。
There's that one about that girl that called that said she didn't want to have a baby and was like-- like, I didn't know.
有一个关于那个打电话的女孩说她不想生孩子，然后就像——就像，我不知道。
But she asked us to post it, and it was so-- yeah, it was just like wow, she's really-- And I don't know, I've never-- she hasn't called again, or I don't know what happened to her or anything.
但她要求我们把它发布出来，结果是——是的，就像哇，她真的——我不知道，我从来没有——她没有再打过电话，或者我不知道她发生了什么事或其他什么。
Yeah.
是的。
When you heard that, did you feel like, oh, maybe I went too far?
当你听到这句话时，你是否觉得，哦，也许我太过分了？
Yeah.
是的。
I still think about that.
我还在想这个。
And she's a teenager or something, too--
而且她也还是个十几岁的孩子或者什么的——
Yeah.
是的。
Chris Allert --or she was.
克里斯·阿勒特——或者说她是。
And yeah, I just remember almost not posting it.
是的，我只记得几乎没有发布它。
But then it's like, she asked me to.
但后来好像是她要求我这么做的。
But then I would've felt guilty about not posting it, because she really wanted-- I don't know.
但我会因为没有发布它而感到内疚，因为她真的想要——我不知道。
When people put their faith in something, you don't want to let them down.
当人们对某件事充满信心时，你不想让他们失望。
But then you don't actually have any way to help them.
但你实际上没有任何办法帮助他们。
That might be part of the reason I haven't really kept up with the calls.
这可能是我没有真正跟上电话的部分原因。
I mean, I still listen to the people.
我的意思是，我仍然听取人们的意见。
I still get, like, 20 calls a day.
我仍然每天接到 20 个电话。
I'm not saying-- I listen to them as much as I can.
我并不是说——我会尽可能多地倾听他们的意见。
I haven't had time to really keep the website up-to-date.
我没有时间真正使网站保持最新状态。
In fact, it's been years-- since his first daughter was born-- that he's posted any calls to the website.
事实上，自从他的第一个女儿出生以来，他已经有很多年没有在该网站上发布任何电话了。
People call in, hoping somebody's going to pray to Satan for them.
人们打电话进来，希望有人能为他们向撒旦祈祷。
He never, ever delivers that.
他从来没有做到过。
Nobody does.
没有人这样做。
I feel like I'm people down.
我觉得我是一个低落的人。
I actually do feel really guilty about not keeping it up.
事实上，我确实对没有坚持下去感到非常内疚。
I think usually the problem, when you start talking about the devil, is that for some people, Satan is real.
我认为，当你开始谈论魔鬼时，通常的问题是，对于某些人来说，撒旦是真实的。
It's no joke.
这不是玩笑。
He is out there.
他就在那里。
Nothing could be more serious.
没有什么比这更严重的了。
And for non-believers, nothing could be sillier-- this cartoon-ish imp with horns.
对于非信徒来说，没有什么比这更愚蠢的了——这个卡通风格的长角小鬼。
And even bringing the subject up divides people, sends us into sparring camps.
即使提起这个话题也会引起人们的分歧，让我们陷入争论的阵营。
Which, can I say, is exactly what the devil wants.
我可以说，这正是魔鬼想要的。
Or doesn't, if he doesn't exist.
或者不存在，如果他不存在的话。
And Chris is one of the few people I've ever heard of who's in the middle.
克里斯是我听说过的少数处于中间位置的人之一。
Even though he doesn't believe in Satan, he can't bring himself to shut down the prayer line.
即使他不相信撒旦，他也无法让自己关闭祷告队列。
He feels like he's seen that people need it-- they need a place to call.
他觉得他看到人们需要它——他们需要一个可以打电话的地方。
And it doesn't feel right to take Satan from them.
从他们手中夺走撒旦感觉不对。
Yeah, the whole-- why don't I quit doing it?
是的，整个——我为什么不放弃呢？
And it's like, I don't know.
就像，我不知道。
But I think if I understood it-- when I understand it better, I'll be able to just let it go.
但我想如果我理解它——当我更好地理解它时，我就能放手了。
I think I just don't understand it myself.
我想我自己也不太明白。
And the thing you don't understand is just-- you're not totally understanding why this has a hold over people and why it has a hold over you.
你不明白的是——你没有完全理解为什么这会影响人们以及为什么它会影响你。
Yeah, or over me, even.
是的，甚至超过我。
Yeah.
是的。
It matters in some way that I just haven't figured out yet.
这在某种程度上很重要，但我还没有弄清楚。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
And, OK, all this talk of Satan-- that is because today's show is a milestone for us.
好吧，所有这些都是关于撒旦的——那是因为今天的节目对我们来说是一个里程碑。
Not a milestone that we're necessarily proud of or anything-- just the odometer of our lives and of our weeks has ticked over and gotten us to the point where we did 100 episodes of our show, and then our 200th episode, and our 300th episode, week after week, show after show, past episode 600.
这并不是一个值得我们感到自豪的里程碑，也不是任何事情——只是我们生命和几周的里程表已经滴答作响，让我们完成了节目的 100 集，然后是第 200 集、第 300 集，一周又一周，一个又一个节目，过去了 600 集。
And finally, here we are-- episode 666.
最后，我们来了——第 666 集。
[HEAVY METAL MUSIC PLAYING] And to commemorate our 666th episode-- wow, this music is loud-- (LOUDER) OK, to commemorate our 666th episode, we have stories about Satan in his many surprising forms here on Earth.
[重金属音乐播放] 为了纪念我们的第 666 集——哇，这音乐太吵了——（大声）好的，为了纪念我们的第 666 集，我们有关于撒旦在地球上以多种令人惊讶的形式出现的故事。
I'm your host, Ira Glass.
我是你们的主持人，艾拉·格拉斯。
And to paraphrase Milton, I would rather host a show in hell than just be somebody who gets quoted for a minute or two in a show on Heaven.
用弥尔顿的话来说，我宁愿在地狱主持一场节目，也不愿成为在天堂的节目中被引用一两分钟的人。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Record Deal with the Devil.
第一幕，记录与魔鬼的交易。
So let's begin today by returning to a recent moment in this country when lots of secular people suddenly got worried about the devil.
因此，让我们从今天开始回到这个国家最近的一个时刻，当时许多世俗的人突然开始担心魔鬼。
This was back in the 1980s.
这已经是 20 世纪 80 年代的事了。
There was a whole Satanic panic.
整个人充满了撒旦般的恐慌。
TV specials with Geraldo, and Oprah, and Sally Jessy Raphael about Satanic murders, Satanic rituals, Satanic cults.
杰拉尔多、奥普拉和莎莉·杰西·拉斐尔主演的电视特别节目，讲述撒旦谋杀、撒旦仪式、撒旦邪教。
And the thing we want to talk about in today's story, Satanic music.
今天我们要讲的就是撒旦音乐。
This was a low point, I would say, of the "what are kids listening to today" freak-outs among adults.
我想说，这是成年人中“孩子们今天听什么”的恐慌的最低点。
It got so heated, the Senate held hearings on this.
事情变得如此激烈，参议院就此举行了听证会。
Much has changed since Elvis, seemingly innocent times.
自猫王时代以来，情况发生了很大变化，看似天真的时代。
Subtlety, suggestions, and innuendo have given way to overt expressions and descriptions of often violent sexual acts, drug taking, and flirtations with the occult.
微妙、暗示和影射已经让位于对暴力性行为、吸毒和与神秘事物调情的公开表达和描述。
Hawkins was a witness along with members of the Parents Music Resource Council, the PMRC, testifying to the dangers of rock music.
霍金斯与家长音乐资源委员会 (PMRC) 的成员一起见证了摇滚乐的危险。
Remember Tipper Gore?
还记得蒂珀·戈尔吗？
Remember those days?
还记得那些日子吗？
They're the ones who eventually got parental advisory stickers put on tapes and CDs.
他们最终将家长建议贴纸贴在磁带和 CD 上。
The hearing, of course, included the obligatory embarrassing-to-watch moments of serious-looking adults reading lyrics not written for sober people in suits and sensible dresses to enjoy.
当然，听证会还包括那些看起来很严肃的成年人朗读歌词的尴尬时刻，这些歌词不是为穿着西装和合宜服装的清醒人欣赏的。
This next clip is a minister reading lyrics from a band called Piledriver.
下一个片段是一位牧师朗读 Piledriver 乐队的歌词。
His performance is very different from the original recording of the song.
他的演奏与歌曲的原始录音有很大不同。
The song is called "Lust." The lyrics say "Hell on fire, lust, desire.
这首歌的名字叫《欲望》。歌词写道：“地狱着火，色欲，欲望。
The devil wants to stick you.
魔鬼想粘住你。
The devil wants to lick you.
魔鬼想舔你。
He wants your body.
他想要你的身体。
He wants your spirit.
他想要你的灵魂。
Naked, twisting, bodies sweating.
赤身裸体，扭动身体，大汗淋漓。
Prince of darkness, prince of evil.
黑暗王子，邪恶王子。
Spread your legs and scream.
张开双腿并尖叫。
This is no dream.
这不是梦。
Degradation, humiliation.
贬低、羞辱。
Thrusting, shoving, animals humping.
猛推、推搡、动物驼背。
He's like a dog in heat.
他就像一只发情的狗。
You're just another piece of meat.
你只是另一块肉。
Craving--
渴望——
Some very obscure bands got great publicity from this hearing.
一些非常不起眼的乐队在这次听证会上得到了广泛的关注。
The band that recorded that song, Piledriver, says the hearing gave them a bump in record sales-- maybe 10,000 albums, they told us, that they wouldn't have sold otherwise.
录制这首歌的乐队 Piledriver 表示，这次听证会让他们的唱片销量猛增——他们告诉我们，也许他们不会卖出 10,000 张专辑。
And it's right around this time that a religious crusader, one of the most vocal devil hunters in the country, dove deep into this controversy over rock lyrics.
就在这个时候，一位宗教斗士，这个国家最直言不讳的魔鬼猎手之一，深入参与了这场关于摇滚歌词的争议。
And this incredible thing happened where he went on tour.
而这不可思议的事情就发生在他巡演的地方。
He went on tour with one of the thrash metal bands that sings about Satan to figure out just how evil and dangerous it was.
他与一支鞭打金属乐队一起巡演，该乐队唱着撒旦的歌，以了解撒旦到底有多么邪恶和危险。
It was a sincere attempt to try to see what the other side was doing.
这是一次真诚的尝试，试图了解对方在做什么。
A very unusual encounter between big names in the two opposing camps, the Christians and the rockers.
基督教徒和摇滚乐这两个对立阵营的大人物之间的一次非常不寻常的相遇。
And this was not a superficial drop in, drop out.
这并不是一次肤浅的进出。
The preacher spent a week with them, traveled on the bus with the band, got to know them.
牧师和他们一起度过了一周，和乐队一起乘公共汽车旅行，了解了他们。
All this happened in 1989.
这一切都发生在1989年。
Not many people remember this weird momentary mash-up between the nonbelievers and the believers.
没有多少人记得非信徒和信徒之间这种奇怪的瞬间混搭。
Reporter Kelefa Sanneh takes us back to tell what happened.
记者 Kelefa Sanneh 带我们回去讲述发生的事情。
This warrior in the fight against Satanism-- his name was Bob Larson.
这位对抗撒旦教的战士——他的名字叫鲍勃·拉尔森。
He used to play in small-time rock bands.
他曾经在小型摇滚乐队中演奏。
Then he switched sides and became a preacher with a taste for spiritual warfare.
然后他转变立场，成为一名热衷于属灵争战的传道人。
He started doing a nationally syndicated radio show called Talk Back in 1982.
1982 年，他开始制作一个名为“Talk Back”的全国性广播节目。
Good afternoon, America.
下午好，美国。
Welcome to Talk Back with Bob Larson.
欢迎与鲍勃·拉尔森对话。
I'll be here the next hour, talking about what's on my mind, and hearing from you about what's on your mind.
接下来的一个小时我会在这里，谈论我的想法，并听取您的想法。
In studio today--
今天在演播室——
He warned about the spread of Satanism, told parents about the Satanic messages in the music their children were listening to.
他警告撒旦教的传播，告诉父母他们的孩子正在听的音乐中含有撒旦信息。
He had Satanists on the air to argue with him about Satanism, including two guys from a band called Acheron.
他在节目中邀请了撒旦教徒与他争论撒旦教的问题，其中包括两个来自名为 Acheron 的乐队的成员。
Let him come and take me.
让他来带我吧。
Where is Jesus?
耶稣在哪里？
I don't see him.
我没有看到他。
If the devil could kill you right now, he would.
如果魔鬼现在就能杀了你，他就会的。
You see, the devil's got you where he wants you.
你看，魔鬼已经把你带到他想要你去的地方了。
Your souls are damned and doomed right now.
你的灵魂现在已被诅咒并注定要灭亡。
Rather be damned.
还不如被诅咒。
Bob Larson It's Jesus Christ that's keeping you alive.
鲍勃·拉尔森 是耶稣基督让你活着。
Oh, is he?
哦，是吗？
Bob Larson To me!
鲍勃·拉森 对我来说！
To me.
对我来说。
You gentlemen being here today is an incredible testimony to the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ.
先生们今天聚集在这里，是对耶稣基督的怜悯和恩典的令人难以置信的见证。
Oh, really?
哦，真的吗？
Kelefa Sanneh Sometimes he would offer to perform an exorcism.
有时他会主动提出驱魔。
He's really into exorcisms.
他真的很热衷于驱魔。
And I did something that was pretty revolutionary at the time.
我当时做了一些非常革命性的事情。
This is Bob Larson today.
我是今天的鲍勃·拉尔森。
Bob Larson I would play sound bites of songs.
鲍勃·拉尔森（Bob Larson）我会播放歌曲的原声片段。
And sometimes I would start my show out with some really thrash music and let it play just long enough for some kid who was surfing across the dial to land on it before he realized what kind of a show he was actually listening to.
有时我会用一些真正的激流音乐开始我的节目，让它播放足够长的时间，让那些在表盘上冲浪的孩子在意识到他实际上在听什么样的节目之前降落在它上面。
Bait and switch.
诱饵和开关。
Bob Larson Yeah.
鲍勃·拉尔森 是的。
Yeah, bait and switch.
是的，诱饵和开关。
Well, it wasn't my intent, but in fact, it happened.
好吧，这不是我的本意，但事实上，它发生了。
So I would end up having some pretty profound spiritual discussions with kids who had no idea that they just happened onto a religious station.
所以我最终会和孩子们进行一些非常深刻的精神讨论，他们不知道自己碰巧来到了一个宗教电台。
Even now, Bob Larson clearly loves talking about this music.
即使是现在，鲍勃·拉尔森显然也喜欢谈论这种音乐。
He loves being fluent in the language of metal, even though he insists he's not a fan of it-- just a researcher with an unusually high tolerance for it.
他喜欢流利地使用金属语言，尽管他坚称自己不是金属的粉丝——只是一个对金属有着异常高容忍度的研究人员。
Everybody trying to outdo everybody else with outlandish antics of sorts, whether it was Alice Cooper on stage with a snake, or the death thrash metal bands trying to outdo themselves with Satanism motifs.
每个人都试图用各种古怪的滑稽动作来超越其他人，无论是爱丽丝·库珀在舞台上带着蛇，还是死亡鞭打金属乐队试图用撒旦主义主题超越自己。
Cannibal Corpse, Deicide-- I mean, that's right at the top of my list.
食人尸、弑神者——我的意思是，它就在我的列表的首位。
That's late '80s, right?
那是80年代末，对吧？
Bob Larson Yeah, Morbid Angel, groups like that.
鲍勃·拉尔森 是的，病态天使，诸如此类的团体。
One guy who sometimes called into Bob Larson's show was Bob Guccione Jr.
小鲍勃·古乔内 (Bob Guccione Jr.) 是一位有时会来参加鲍勃·拉尔森 (Bob Larson) 节目的人。
And I was, just about at the time, the only person in the rock media, the music media, that wanted to debate these guys.
就在那时，我是摇滚媒体、音乐媒体中唯一想要与这些人辩论的人。
He was the publisher of Spin magazine, and he's also the son of that other Bob Guccione, the one who founded Penthouse magazine.
他是《Spin》杂志的出版商，也是《Penthouse》杂志创始人 Bob Guccione 的儿子。
You know, growing up in my household, with my father, who was constantly at war with the religious right-- he published Penthouse, they were assailing it-- I knew you had to debate these people, or else their opinion generally took.
你知道，在我的家里长大，和我的父亲一起长大，他经常与宗教权利交战——他出版了《阁楼》，他们对此进行了攻击——我知道你必须与这些人辩论，否则他们的观点就会被普遍接受。
I argued the case against anyone who wanted to argue.
我对任何想辩论的人都进行了辩论。
Bob Guccione became a regular guest on Bob Larson's show.
鲍勃·古乔内 (Bob Guccione) 成为鲍勃·拉尔森 (Bob Larson) 节目的常客。
He became one of Larson's favorite antagonists.
他成为拉尔森最喜欢的对手之一。
I would be on his show in his studio in Colorado, and he would be assailing me.
我会在他位于科罗拉多州的工作室里参加他的演出，他会攻击我。
"You are the son of Satan.
“你是撒旦之子。
My readers, my listeners, I'm sitting with the son of Satan here." I was basically a devil incarnate.
我的读者，我的听众，我和撒旦之子坐在一起。”我基本上是魔鬼的化身。
And he begged me, begged me on air-- on air, he begged me to exorcise me.
他在广播中求我，求我——在广播中，他求我给我驱魔。
And I said, I don't need to be exorcised!
我说，我不需要驱魔！
He goes, you've got to be born again.
他走了，你必须重生。
I said, well, I was born once!
我说，好吧，我出生过一次！
So anyway, he would assail me.
所以无论如何，他都会攻击我。
And especially when his listeners would call in and say, he's got a point, he sounds like a good guy, he would assail me even further, cut me off.
尤其是当他的听众打电话来说，他说得有道理，他听起来是个好人，他会进一步攻击我，打断我的话。
And in the commercial break, he'd say, where do you want to go for dinner?
在广告时段，他会说，你想去哪里吃晚饭？
These two guys named Bob-- they were both performers.
这两个叫鲍勃的家伙——他们都是表演者。
They both knew the value of a good spectacle.
他们都知道一场精彩表演的价值。
Maybe it wasn't pro wrestling exactly, but it was a show.
也许这并不是职业摔跤，但它是一场表演。
Behind the scenes, they became fairly close friends.
在幕后，他们成为了相当亲密的朋友。
For both of them, it was a transgressive friendship.
对于他们两人来说，这是一种越界的友谊。
And they liked that.
他们喜欢这样。
And at some point, you get the idea to invite him into your secular rock magazine.
在某个时候，你想到邀请他加入你的世俗摇滚杂志。
Yeah.
是的。
Don't know what took me so long.
不知道是什么让我花了这么长时间。
[LAUGHING] I was having dinner with him once.
[笑]有一次我和他一起吃晚饭。
And he's talking away, he's talking away, talking way about this, and the music you espouse.
他滔滔不绝，滔滔不绝，谈论这个，还有你所拥护的音乐。
All the lives you're endangering, and the souls you're losing.
你正在危及所有的生命，以及你正在失去的灵魂。
And I said, look, have you ever actually been to a concert, one of these heavy metal concerts?
我说，听着，你真的去过一场音乐会吗，其中一场重金属音乐会？
Have you ever seen these guys?
你见过这些家伙吗？
Have you ever met these people?
你见过这些人吗？
And of course, I wouldn't go near that.
当然，我不会接近那个。
That's all Satan stuff.
这都是撒旦的事。
I'm not going to go near that.
我不会接近那个。
And so I said, well, look, for your own edification-- and it would be great publicity for you-- why don't you go on a tour?
所以我说，好吧，为了你自己的启迪——这对你来说是一个很好的宣传——你为什么不去旅行呢？
Yeah, why don't you go on a tour with Slayer?
是啊，你为什么不和 Slayer 一起去巡演呢？
Slayer, a thrash metal band from California that was basically designed to freak out people like Bob Larson.
Slayer 是一支来自加利福尼亚州的鞭打金属乐队，其设计初衷就是为了吓唬像鲍勃·拉尔森这样的人。
Reign in Blood, their 1986 masterpiece-- 29 minutes of sickness and brutality-- fast, and mean, and scary.
他们 1986 年的杰作《血色统治》——29 分钟的病态和残酷——快速、卑鄙、可怕。
One of the songs, "Altar of Sacrifice," is actually about Satanic human sacrifice.
其中一首歌曲“祭坛”实际上是关于撒旦的活人祭祀的。
Bob Larson agrees immediately.
鲍勃·拉尔森立即表示同意。
Slayer's manager says, OK, fine.
Slayer 的经理说，好吧，好吧。
And the next thing I know, I'm in a taxi and on my way to the concert.
接下来我就知道，我已经坐上了出租车，正在前往音乐会的路上。
It turns out, Bob Larson makes a pretty good rock journalist.
事实证明，鲍勃·拉尔森是一位非常优秀的摇滚记者。
The article he wrote-- it actually appeared in Spin, the May 1989 issue.
他写的这篇文章实际上发表在 1989 年 5 月号的《Spin》上。
It was accompanied by a maniacal family portrait, Larson smiling in a suit and the four guys from Slayer howling behind him.
伴随着一张疯狂的全家福，拉尔森穿着西装微笑，《杀手》的四个人在他身后嚎叫。
The headline was, "Desperately Seeking Satan." And it's kind of great-- the diary of a man who had spent years demonizing this band, literally demonizing them, and then got a chance to see if they were as bad as he thought.
标题是“拼命寻找撒旦”。这真是太棒了——一个人的日记，他花了多年的时间妖魔化这个乐队，名副其实地妖魔化他们，然后有机会看看他们是否像他想象的那么糟糕。
Before he went to meet Slayer, Larson told his listeners about the assignment.
在去见杀手之前，拉尔森向听众讲述了这项任务。
He says some of them wanted him to give Slayer the full treatment-- exorcise them, convert them, baptize them.
他说，他们中的一些人希望他给杀手提供全面的治疗——驱除他们，改变他们的信仰，给他们施洗。
But Larson told them no. This was a different kind of mission, a journalistic one.
但拉尔森告诉他们不。这是一种不同的使命，一种新闻使命。
The mission was, is it an act of Satanism or something akin to that, or how much of it is a genuine expression of belief system from the members of the band?
使命是，这是撒旦教的行为还是类似的行为，或者其中有多少是乐队成员信仰体系的真实表达？
I wasn't out to save their souls.
我并不是要拯救他们的灵魂。
I was out there to observe.
我当时就在外面观察。
That was a little bit hard for some of my hardcore religious followers to accept, because they thought I should return triumphantly with confessions of spiritual faith from every one of them.
对于我的一些铁杆宗教追随者来说，这有点难以接受，因为他们认为我应该带着他们每个人的精神信仰告白凯旋归来。
But of those four guys, that was asking a lot.
但对于这四个人来说，这是一个很大的要求。
So Larson flies to Germany, shows up at the venue.
于是拉尔森飞往德国，出现在会场。
It's a Slayer show, and it sounds like it was epic.
这是一部《杀手秀》，听起来就像是史诗般的。
Are you live undead?
你是活不死的人吗？
Bob Larson One of these big, flat floor, standing room only type things.
鲍勃·拉尔森（Bob Larson）就是这些大而平坦的地板、只有站立空间的类型的东西之一。
Nobody was in a chair.
椅子上没有人。
It was your typical thrash audience.
这是典型的鞭打观众。
Everybody stands and does their whole thrash thing.
每个人都站起来，做他们的整个摔跤动作。
Was it exciting?
令人兴奋吗？
Bob Larson Well, of course, the environment was just very, very dramatic, because it's just intense.
鲍勃·拉森（Bob Larson）：嗯，当然，环境非常非常戏剧性，因为它非常激烈。
I mean, these guys-- they never saw a ballad that they didn't hate.
我的意思是，这些家伙——他们从未见过他们不讨厌的民谣。
There was no such thing.
没有这样的事情。
They never slowed down.
他们从未放慢脚步。
It was speed guitars constantly.
一直都是速度吉他。
It never let up.
它从未放松过。
So Larson's there.
所以拉尔森就在那里。
He's not wearing a clerical collar.
他没有戴公文领。
He's not even wearing a tie.
他甚至没有打领带。
But still, he's this older, normal seeming guy, roaming around with a pad of paper, interrogating the metal heads.
但他仍然是一个年纪较大、看上去很正常的家伙，拿着一叠纸四处走动，审问金属头。
So I walk around.
所以我四处走走。
I start interviewing people and asking them-- now, I think the thing that was most interesting is that I did find hardcore Satanists there.
我开始采访人们并询问他们——现在，我认为最有趣的是我确实在那里找到了铁杆撒旦教徒。
At least, they said they were.
至少，他们是这么说的。
I would ask them, do you believe in what these guys are doing?
我会问他们，你相信这些人所做的事情吗？
Yes.
是的。
You see that upside down cross behind them-- what does that mean to you?
你看到他们身后那个倒置的十字架——这对你来说意味着什么？
Worshipping Satan.
崇拜撒旦。
Now, this is cool.
现在，这很酷。
That's great.
太好了。
We worship Satan.
我们敬拜撒旦。
I mean, if you're at a metal show, and a guy who looks like a dentist comes up to you, asks you if you're a Satanist, you'd probably say hell, yeah.
我的意思是，如果你在金属展上，一个看起来像牙医的家伙走到你面前，问你是否是撒旦教徒，你可能会说天哪，是的。
But Bob felt like these fans, at least some of them, were telling him the truth.
但鲍勃觉得这些粉丝，至少其中一些，正在告诉他真相。
They saw this as their demonic liturgy, their place of worship, and they took it very seriously.
他们将此视为他们的恶魔礼拜仪式、他们的礼拜场所，并且非常认真地对待它。
So my first conclusion was whatever these guys on stage believe or don't believe, this is what their audience-- at least a portion of their audience-- believes.
所以我的第一个结论是，无论舞台上的这些人相信或不相信，这就是他们的观众——至少是他们的一部分观众——所相信的。
I think what makes Slayer great isn't the Satanic stuff.
我认为《杀手》之所以伟大，并不是因为撒旦的东西。
In fact, the lyrics are kind of secondary.
事实上，歌词是次要的。
What makes Slayer Slayer is the atmosphere, the sense of mayhem.
《Slayer Slayer》的魅力在于氛围、混乱感。
Those furious, galloping drums.
那些愤怒、奔腾的鼓声。
The way Jeff Hanneman and Kerry King, the two guitarists, lock into the same, churning riff, and then go hurtling off in different directions.
两位吉他手杰夫·汉尼曼 (Jeff Hanneman) 和克里·金 (Kerry King) 锁定相同的翻腾连复段，然后朝不同的方向疾驰。
The music sounds wild and evil.
音乐听起来狂野而邪恶。
And for the whole thing to work, the words need to be pretty sick, too.
为了使整个事情顺利进行，言语也必须非常恶心。
So of course these guys end up singing about the devil.
所以当然这些人最终会唱关于魔鬼的歌。
(SUBJET) SINGER: An unforeseen future nestled somewhere in time.
（主题）歌手：不可预见的未来就在时间的某个地方。
Unsuspecting victims, no warnings, no signs.
毫无戒心的受害者，没有警告，没有迹象。
Judgement Day, the second coming--
审判日，第二次来临——
If you're not into this sort of music, it's easy to miss the sheer physical joy of it.
如果您不喜欢这种音乐，很容易错过它带来的纯粹的身体乐趣。
Slayer's a rock band playing an exceptionally visceral form of rock and roll.
Slayer 是一支摇滚乐队，演奏极其发自内心的摇滚乐。
And when Larson went backstage, he found more or less what you'd expect-- a bunch of exhausted musicians, zero Satanic rituals.
当拉尔森回到后台时，他或多或少地发现了你所期望的——一群疲惫不堪的音乐家，零撒旦仪式。
Well backstage, of course, is just a typical rock and roll show.
当然，后台只是一场典型的摇滚表演。
And everybody's toweling down, and just having a couple of beers, and just trying to relax for a little bit.
每个人都用毛巾擦干，喝了几杯啤酒，试图放松一下。
Trying to figure out if there were any nubile young ladies in the audience that would be of interest to them.
试图找出观众中是否有他们感兴趣的适婚年轻女士。
But actually, these guys weren't too much into the girls.
但实际上，这些家伙并不太喜欢女孩。
They were just more into the dope.
他们只是更沉迷于毒品。
Was that in the back of your mind?
这在你的脑海里吗？
That maybe one of these people will be possessed, and I'm going to have to perform an exorcism right here backstage in Germany?
也许其中一个人会被附身，而我将不得不在德国后台进行驱魔？
Yes, I did think about that.
是的，我确实考虑过这一点。
I absolutely did.
我绝对做到了。
But I also knew from a practical standpoint that this was a show business environment.
但从实际角度来看，我也知道这是一个演艺环境。
And even backstage, they're still playing a role.
即使在后台，他们仍然发挥着作用。
They're still being the bad guy Satanists to their fawning fans.
对于那些阿谀奉承的粉丝来说，他们仍然是坏人撒旦教徒。
So they weren't going to get real with me.
所以他们不会对我说实话。
The only chance for that would be on the bus.
唯一的机会就是在公共汽车上。
Larson spent a lot of time on that tour bus.
拉森在那辆旅游巴士上度过了很多时间。
And in the article, the thing he notices most is how bored the guys were.
在文章中，他最注意到的是这些人是多么无聊。
There's a collage of little snippets of conversation.
有一些对话小片段的拼贴画。
"I thought I'd freeze my butt off before we went on stage." "My drum solo just didn't make it tonight.
“我以为我们上台之前我的屁股都会冻掉。” “今晚我的鼓独奏没成功。
Something wasn't right." "Ice, where's the ice?
有什么事情不对劲。” “冰，冰在哪里？
You just can't get ice in Europe."
在欧洲你根本买不到冰。”
Larson says Kerry King, one of the guitarists, was literally counting down the days until he could go home.
拉尔森说，吉他手之一克里·金实际上正在倒计时，直到他可以回家。
King told Larson about his Toyota 4x4 and his hobby breeding pythons.
金向拉尔森讲述了他的丰田 4x4 和饲养蟒蛇的爱好。
He said he didn't know much about Satanism.
他说他对撒旦教了解不多。
He got most of his ideas from horror movies.
他的大部分想法都来自恐怖电影。
There was a stack of them on the bus next to the VCR.
公共汽车上录像机旁边有一堆。
The guys were really into Gremlins.
这些家伙真的很喜欢小魔怪。
I didn't like the bus.
我不喜欢公共汽车。
No, no. Well, it just wasn't my kind of place, because I didn't appreciate having to inhale hash fumes.
不，不。嗯，这不是我喜欢的地方，因为我不喜欢吸入哈希烟雾。
Because that was the drug of choice, and that was not my thing.
因为那是我选择的药物，而那不是我的事。
But I was on a mission.
但我是在执行任务。
I was on an assignment.
我当时正在执行任务。
I had to do my job, so I wanted to faithfully do that.
我必须做好我的工作，所以我想忠实地做到这一点。
Did you have any late night moments where those conversations became more like real conversations?
您是否有过深夜时刻，这些对话变得更像真实的对话？
Yes.
是的。
Yes, I did.
是的，我做到了。
Particularly with Araya.
尤其是阿拉亚。
That's Tom Araya, the bass player and lead vocalist.
那是汤姆·阿拉亚（Tom Araya），贝斯手兼主唱。
I mean, he's a very bright guy, very smart guy.
我的意思是，他是一个非常聪明的人。
If I may say so, a little bit more than the others.
如果我可以这么说的话，比其他人多一点。
I don't mean to insult them, but he was kind of the intellectual of the group.
我无意侮辱他们，但他是这个群体中的知识分子。
And he deeply thought about this.
而他也深深地思考了这一点。
He came from South America.
他来自南美洲。
He was raised in a Catholic culture.
他在天主教文化中长大。
So to him, it was serious business.
所以对他来说，这是一件严肃的事情。
And we had some pretty serious philosophical discussions about God, about whether there is a hell and a heaven, and there is a devil.
我们对上帝进行了一些非常严肃的哲学讨论，讨论是否有地狱和天堂，是否有魔鬼。
And is the devil real, and is singing about the devil such a good idea?
魔鬼是真实存在的吗？歌唱魔鬼是个好主意吗？
Can you just dismiss it as show business?
你能把它当作演艺事业吗？
I reached out to Tom Araya and the band, but they declined to comment.
我联系了汤姆·阿拉亚和乐队，但他们拒绝发表评论。
Tom Araya seemed like the one guy in the band who took these ideas seriously-- good and evil, God and the devil.
汤姆·阿拉亚（Tom Araya）似乎是乐队中认真对待这些想法的人——善与恶、上帝与魔鬼。
Larson doesn't think he actually believed in Satan, but Araya went onstage with an upside down cross anyway.
拉尔森并不认为他真的相信撒旦，但阿拉亚无论如何还是带着倒十字架走上了舞台。
And to Larson, that made him seem reckless, maybe even evil.
对于拉尔森来说，这让他显得鲁莽，甚至可能是邪恶的。
Araya understood what he was doing, but he didn't really care.
阿拉亚明白他在做什么，但他并不在意。
If there was one guy who really needed an exorcism, it was him.
如果有一个人真的需要驱魔，那就是他了。
It's like he knew too much, and he, therefore, was accountable for much more.
就好像他知道的太多了，因此他要承担的责任要多得多。
As I recall, he didn't totally dismiss the idea of personal evil.
我记得，他并没有完全否认个人邪恶的想法。
But the idea that he would be an agent of that evil?
但他会成为邪恶的代理人吗？
No.
不。
The idea that Slayer was just going through the motions, that this was all a scripted pantomime carefully calculated to separate German teenagers from their deutschmarks-- it offended Larson as a former rock and roller.
认为《杀手》只是走走过场，这一切都是精心策划的一部有剧本的哑剧，目的是将德国青少年与他们的德国马克分开——这冒犯了作为前摇滚乐手的拉尔森。
His whole point is that rock and roll is dangerous because rock and roll is powerful.
他的全部观点是摇滚乐是危险的，因为摇滚乐是强大的。
He's a romantic that way.
他是一个浪漫的人。
He believes in rock and roll.
他相信摇滚乐。
And it drove him nuts to see the guys from Slayer night after night playing the same solos, hitting the same marks, like actors at a Broadway show.
看到《杀手》的成员们夜复一夜地演奏相同的独奏，达到相同的分数，就像百老汇演出中的演员一样，这让他抓狂。
Nothing was spontaneous, he wrote.
他写道，没有什么是自发的。
It was a letdown.
这是一种失望。
He had flown to Germany prepared for battle, but now he was all alone on the battlefield.
他飞到德国准备战斗，但现在他孤身一人在战场上。
These guys weren't his worthy opponents.
这些家伙根本就不是他的对手。
My favorite line in the magazine story is when he's sitting on that bare bones tour bus and he wonders, sort of wistfully, where were all the porn videos?
杂志故事中我最喜欢的台词是当他坐在那辆简陋的旅游巴士上时，他有点渴望地想知道所有的色情视频都在哪里？
I mean, it seems like here you are-- you're on tour with the most evil band on the planet.
我的意思是，你似乎正在与地球上最邪恶的乐队一起巡演。
You're on the tour bus.
你在旅游巴士上。
And it's just a bunch of guys drinking beer.
只是一群人在喝啤酒。
There's no Satan behind the curtain.
幕后并没有撒旦。
Well, yes and no. Because there's more than one way for Satan to be orchestrating things from the wings, OK?
嗯，是的，也不是。因为撒旦策划事情的方式不止一种，好吗？
And if they are speaking the words of Satan, doing the things the devil would have them to do, the potential disastrous end result is going to be the same, whether or not they as the active agents believe it or not.
如果他们说撒但的话，做魔鬼要他们做的事，那么潜在的灾难性的最终结果将是一样的，无论他们作为积极分子是否相信。
They're the conduit.
他们是管道。
Mission accomplished.
任务完成了。
He's Reverend Bob Larson.
他是鲍勃·拉尔森牧师。
Of course he found Satan.
他当然找到了撒旦。
Satan was there.
撒但就在那里。
Satan was there every night.
撒旦每天晚上都在那里。
Satan was on the bus.
撒旦在公共汽车上。
Satan was in the concerts.
撒旦出现在音乐会中。
Yes, he was there in the form of what was being said.
是的，他以所说的形式存在。
That's like saying-- since I was in Germany-- was the devil there at the Gestapo rallies?
这就像说——因为我在德国——盖世太保集会上有魔鬼吗？
I'm not comparing them to Nazis.
我不是将他们与纳粹进行比较。
I'm just saying that yes, of course, the devil was there in the same way the devil was here at these concerts.
我只是说，是的，当然，魔鬼就在那里，就像魔鬼在这些音乐会上一样。
So that's it.
就是这样。
Spin prints the story.
旋转打印故事。
Slayer gets even huger, keeps touring, keeps raising hell.
《杀手》变得更加庞大，继续巡演，继续制造地狱。
And Larson keeps warning about Satanism long after most of the country has moved on.
在这个国家的大部分地区已经搬迁很久之后，拉尔森仍然不断警告撒旦教。
They're both on the road right now.
他们俩现在都在路上。
Slayer's in the middle of a two-year worldwide farewell tour.
Slayer 正在进行为期两年的全球告别巡演。
And Bob Larson is leading seminars and conducting exorcisms wherever he can.
鲍勃·拉尔森正在主持研讨会并尽可能进行驱魔活动。
Larson's a performer.
拉尔森是一名表演者。
Just like the guys from Slayer, he understands the value of good schtick.
就像《Slayer》中的人一样，他了解优秀技巧的价值。
It's easy to think of this as a quaint story from another time, the golden age of Satanic panic.
人们很容易认为这是另一个时代的离奇故事，即撒旦恐慌的黄金时代。
But imagine if an up-and-coming band today put out a song like Slayer's "Angel of Death." It's the first song on Reign in Blood, and it's about Nazis.
但想象一下，如果今天有一支崭露头角的乐队推出了一首像 Slayer 的“死亡天使”这样的歌曲。这是《Reign in Blood》中的第一首歌，是关于纳粹的。
More specifically, it's about Josef Mengele, the Nazi official and doctor who performed horrific operations on prisoners at Auschwitz.
更具体地说，它是关于纳粹官员和医生约瑟夫·门格勒（Josef Mengele）的，他对奥斯威辛集中营的囚犯进行了可怕的手术。
"Auschwitz, the meaning of pain.
“奥斯维辛，痛苦的意思。
The way that I want you to die.
我希望你以这种方式死去。
Slow death, immense decay.
缓慢的死亡，巨大的腐烂。
Showers that cleanse you of your life." Slayer got asked about "Angel of Death" a lot.
阵雨可以净化你的生活。” Slayer经常被问及“死亡天使”。
People wanted to know whether the band members were sympathetic to Nazis.
人们想知道乐队成员是否同情纳粹。
Slayer thought this was ridiculous.
杀手认为这很荒谬。
All the lyrics are about how evil Mengele was.
所有的歌词都在讲述门格勒是多么邪恶。
"Sadistic surgeon of demise," they call him.
他们称他为“施虐狂的死亡外科医生”。
But Slayer is a band devoted to the proposition that evil is fascinating, that evil is kind of cool.
但 Slayer 是一支致力于邪恶令人着迷、邪恶有点酷的主张的乐队。
You might even say that Slayer glorifies evil.
你甚至可能会说《杀手》颂扬邪恶。
Certainly, that's what Bob Larson would say.
当然，鲍勃·拉尔森会这么说。
And he'd say that's a terrible, irresponsible thing to do, even if you don't really mean it-- especially then.
他会说这是一件可怕的、不负责任的事情，即使你并不是真心这么想——尤其是在那时。
We live in a time when lots of audiences are saying something sort of like what Larson was saying, that entertainers of all sorts should be accountable for the messages they spread.
我们生活在一个很多观众都在说类似拉尔森所说的东西的时代，即各种艺人都应该对他们传播的信息负责。
That they have a duty not to promote evil, and to make it clear where they stand.
他们有责任不宣扬邪恶，并明确自己的立场。
But with Slayer, it's not always so clear.
但对于《杀手》来说，情况并不总是那么清晰。
"Angel of Death" is an unsettling song because it feels like you're not just listening to a song about evil, you're listening to a song that is itself evil.
《死亡天使》是一首令人不安的歌曲，因为感觉你不只是在听一首关于邪恶的歌曲，你在听一首本身就是邪恶的歌曲。
That's part of what makes the song good, I think.
我认为这就是这首歌好听的部分原因。
But I think lots of people today would be worried about that song being put out in the world.
但我认为今天很多人都会担心这首歌会在世界范围内发行。
I think lots of people today might see things from Bob Larson's point of view.
我认为今天很多人可能会从鲍勃·拉尔森的角度来看问题。
Kelefa Sanneh is a staff writer at The New Yorker.
Kelefa Sanneh 是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人。
Coming up, people ask where hell is-- hell as in hello.
接下来，人们会问地狱在哪里——地狱就像你好一样。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
It is our 666th show, episode number 666.
这是我们的第 666 期节目，第 666 集。
And we're devoting it to Satan in his various forms.
我们将其献给各种形式的撒旦。
And the truth is, people believe a lot of contradictory things about Satan.
事实上，人们对于撒旦的看法有很多相互矛盾的地方。
For instance, one of our producers, Ben Calhoun, was talking to the people who head one of the two big Satanist organizations here in the United States.
例如，我们的一位制片人本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 正在与美国两大撒旦教组织之一的领导者交谈。
This is the Church of Satan based in Poughkeepsie, New York.
这是位于纽约波基普西的撒旦教会。
It's run by Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia.
它由彼得·吉尔摩（Peter Gilmore）和佩吉·纳德拉米亚（Peggy Nadramia）经营。
And when they describe what Satanism is, I've got to say, it actually sounds a little bit like the Preamble to the Constitution.
当他们描述什么是撒旦教时，我不得不说，它实际上听起来有点像宪法的序言。
Satanism is a philosophical position that promotes individuality, liberty, joy, and self-expression.
撒旦教是一种提倡个性、自由、快乐和自我表达的哲学立场。
See what I mean?
明白我的意思吗？
They go on.
他们继续。
Peter Gilmore We believe that you should seek to be the best you you can be, whatever that might be.
Peter Gilmore 我们相信，无论是什么，您都应该尽力成为最好的自己。
It's good to challenge yourself when you can, to do the best you can.
在可能的情况下挑战自己并做到最好是件好事。
But if you reach a comfortable level, enjoy the comfort.
但如果你达到了舒适的水平，那就享受舒适吧。
That you select pleasures to indulge in, but rationally-- not to overdo anything to bring harm to yourself or anybody else around you.
你选择沉迷于快乐，但要理性——不要过度做任何事情，给自己或周围的人带来伤害。
We tell people to be the best person they can be.
我们告诉人们要成为最好的人。
They don't have to reach for some perfection that they can never achieve.
他们不必达到他们永远无法达到的完美。
They're sometimes perfectly fine just the way they are.
有时他们就这样就很好了。
That's pretty much it.
差不多就这样了。
Ben Calhoun It's amazing.
本·卡尔霍恩 太棒了。
I feel like without the Satanism in there, what you just said wouldn't be out of place on Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.
我觉得如果没有撒旦教的存在，你刚才所说的话在罗杰先生的邻居中也不会显得不合适。
[LAUGHING] Peter Gilmore That's true.
[笑]彼得·吉尔摩 确实如此。
That is true.
确实如此。
Satanism is a humanism of sorts.
撒旦教是一种人道主义。
What they're saying might make more sense once you know this important fact about this church and the other big Satanist organization in our country, the Temple of Satan in Salem, Massachusetts-- they are both run by atheists who don't believe in the devil or in God.
一旦你了解了这个教会和我国另一个大型撒旦教组织——马萨诸塞州塞勒姆的撒旦圣殿——的重要事实，他们所说的可能就更有意义了——它们都是由不相信魔鬼或上帝的无神论者管理的。
The groups are kind of a poke in the eye of organized religion.
这些团体有点像有组织的宗教的眼中戳。
But so much of what we think about Satan is a kind of random mishmash of information and ideas that have sprung up over the last few thousand years, like even the idea that the number 666 stands for the devil.
但我们对撒旦的大部分看法都是过去几千年中出现的信息和想法的随机混杂，甚至就像数字 666 代表魔鬼的想法一样。
It says that in the Bible, right?
圣经里是这么说的，对吗？
Elaine Pagels is an expert on these books in the Bible and the people who wrote them and their beliefs.
伊莱恩·佩格斯 (Elaine Pagels) 是研究《圣经》中这些书籍以及这些书籍的作者和他们的信仰的专家。
She's a professor of the history of religion at Princeton.
她是普林斯顿大学宗教史教授。
And she says 666 was not supposed to mean Satan in the Bible in the Book of Revelation, which is the book where it appears, back when it was written.
她说，在圣经《启示录》中，666 不应该指撒旦，而《启示录》正是在它成书时出现的。
She says to understand what 666 was supposed to mean, you have to understand the context in which that part of the Bible was written.
她说要理解 666 的含义，你必须了解圣经中该部分的写作背景。
It's the first century.
这是第一世纪。
Rome sent 60,000 troops into Jerusalem to put down a Jewish uprising.
罗马派出六万军队进入耶路撒冷镇压犹太人的起义。
They are brutal, destroy the Jewish temple.
他们残暴，摧毁犹太圣殿。
So the Jewish prophet John, who wrote the Book of Revelation--
所以，写了《启示录》的犹太先知约翰——
This man is probably a refugee from the Jewish war.
这个人可能是犹太战争的难民。
He knew the horror of the Roman destruction of Israel.
他知道罗马毁灭以色列的恐怖。
And it would probably have been dangerous for a Jewish prophet who hated Rome as much as this one did to speak about the emperor and the empire as the epitome of evil.
对于一位像这位先知一样憎恨罗马的犹太先知来说，将皇帝和帝国视为邪恶的缩影可能是危险的。
And so he spoke in code.
所以他用暗语说话。
In the Book of Revelation, instead of saying Rome, he says "the whore that sits on seven hills."
在《启示录》中，他没有说罗马，而是说“坐在七座山上的妓女”。
But what he means is that's Rome, of course.
但他的意思当然是罗马。
You know this because you have coins in which you see the goddess Roma sitting on seven hills.
你知道这一点，因为你有硬币，上面可以看到罗马女神坐在七座山上。
So everybody would get it, but he's not doing it openly.
所以每个人都会明白，但他并没有公开这样做。
He's doing it through the disguised language of prophetic metaphor that any literate Jew would get and Romans would not.
他通过伪装的预言隐喻语言来做到这一点，任何有文化的犹太人都会明白，而罗马人则不会。
He describes a seven-headed beast that Pagels says might be a reference to the first seven Roman emperors.
他描述了一种七头兽，佩格斯说这可能是指前七位罗马皇帝。
And another beast that he refers to with the number 666-- that is actually where 666 shows up in the Book of Revelation.
他用数字 666 来指称另一只野兽——这实际上是《启示录》中 666 出现的地方。
Each letter in the Hebrew alphabet corresponds to a number, and depending on how you do the numbering, it can spell different words.
希伯来字母表中的每个字母都对应一个数字，根据您的编号方式，它可以拼出不同的单词。
So a 666--
所以666——
It says whoever has wisdom will understand what the number means.
据说，谁有智慧，谁就会明白这个数字的含义。
So the second beast who has a human number, as the author says-- it's probably a hidden version of the name of the head of the Roman Empire.
因此，正如作者所说，第二只具有人类编号的野兽——它可能是罗马帝国元首名字的隐藏版本。
It's usually thought by historians to be a version of the imperial name of Nero, who even Romans thought was the epitome of the worst you could get.
历史学家通常认为这是尼禄帝国名字的一个版本，甚至罗马人也认为尼禄是最糟糕的事情的缩影。
It's like talking about Hitler.
这就像谈论希特勒。
You're talking about the worst of the worst in Roman emperors.
你说的是罗马皇帝中最糟糕的人。
Or it could be the name of the Emperor Domitian, the emperor at the time John was writing the Book of Revelation.
或者它可能是约翰写《启示录》时的皇帝图密善的名字。
I reached out to Professor Pagels actually not to talk about 666, but to talk about the devil.
我联系佩格斯教授实际上不是为了谈论666，而是为了谈论魔鬼。
The thing I wanted to know was, what does the Bible actually say about him?
我想知道的是，圣经到底对他说了些什么？
Where do we start to see the figure that we talk about today?
我们从哪里开始看到我们今天谈论的这个数字呢？
This demon who's out to capture people's souls and rule over them in hell.
这个恶魔的目的是夺取人们的灵魂并在地狱中统治他们。
Professor Pagels is a churchgoing person, but she says that even she was taken aback when she was researching her book, The Origin of Satan, about the subject.
佩格斯教授经常去教堂，但她说，当她研究关于这个主题的书《撒旦的起源》时，她也感到很惊讶。
What surprised me is that that figure almost does not appear in the Hebrew Bible.
令我惊讶的是，这个数字几乎没有出现在希伯来圣经中。
I mean, Christians have always read Satan into the serpent in the Garden of Eden, but that's not what any rabbi would say.
我的意思是，基督徒总是把撒旦解读为伊甸园里的蛇，但这不是任何拉比都会说的。
It's not what the rabbis saw there.
这不是拉比们在那里看到的。
They saw a cunning animal.
他们看到了一只狡猾的动物。
Now, the scholar told us Satan's actually a minor figure in the Bible.
现在，学者告诉我们撒旦实际上是圣经中的一个小人物。
Only appears 40 or 50 times.
只出现40或50次。
And one of the few times the word Satan actually shows up in the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible--
撒旦这个词在旧约圣经、希伯来圣经中实际出现的次数为数不多，其中之一是——
He appears in the Book of Job, as you know.
如你所知，他出现在《约伯记》中。
But in the Book of Job, he's never a rival or an opponent of God.
但在《约伯记》中，他从来都不是神的对手或反对者。
Right, and in the book of Job, he's not committing any evil acts.
是的，在《约伯记》中，他没有做任何恶事。
All he's doing is basically having an argument with God over whether Job really is faithful and really believes in God, and what does his faith consist of.
他所做的基本上就是在和神争论约伯是否真的忠心、是否真的信神，他的信包括什么。
Yes, that's right.
是的，没错。
He's an angel whose role it is to see whether Job is really loyal to God or not.
他是一位天使，他的职责就是看看约伯是否真的忠于神。
He's saying, well, you think he's a perfect servant of yours, but I can show you that he really would turn against you if he weren't getting all these benefits.
他说，好吧，你认为他是你的完美仆人，但我可以向你展示，如果他没有得到所有这些好处，他真的会反对你。
And he's called the Satan, which means "The Opposer." It's not a name.
他被称为撒旦，意思是“反对者”。这不是一个名字。
Wait, it's not a name.
等等，这不是一个名字。
It's just saying he's the guy who questions.
只是说他是提出问题的人。
Yeah.
是的。
In the Book of Job, if you look at English translations, it'll say "Satan stood up." Well, in Hebrew, it's "Ha satan."
在《约伯记》中，如果你看英文翻译，你会发现“撒旦站起来了”。好吧，在希伯来语中，它是“哈撒旦”。
It's "The Opposer." "The Accuser," you could say, because it's from a verb, "satan," which means to oppose.
这是“反对者”。你可以说“原告”，因为它来自动词“撒旦”，意思是反对。
But he doesn't defy God.
但他并不反抗上帝。
He's his servant.
他是他的仆人。
This all changes, she says, after the Old Testament is finished, as we head into the period when the New Testament is going to be written, about 2,000 years ago.
她说，在旧约完成之后，这一切都发生了变化，因为我们进入了新约即将写成的时期，即大约 2000 年前。
Certain groups of Jews began to talk about Israel isn't just ruled by the Lord, who is, of course, the Lord of Israel.
某些犹太人团体开始谈论以色列不仅仅由主统治，而主当然是以色列的主。
But there's an oppositional someone out there.
但那里有一个反对的人。
There's part of a supernatural army of the Lord that has gone AWOL, that has turned against the commander-in-chief.
主的超自然军队中有一部分擅离职守，转而反对总司令。
That has gone to the dark side.
这已经走向黑暗面了。
One of the groups that's saying this is called the Essenes.
持此观点的团体之一称为艾赛尼派。
They fled to live in the desert to avoid the Romans, who are occupying their country, who the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem are cooperating with at that point.
他们逃到沙漠里生活，以避免罗马人占领他们的国家，而耶路撒冷的犹太领导人当时正在与罗马人合作。
We know what the Essenes believed, because they left documents that we call the Dead Sea Scrolls.
我们知道艾赛尼派的信仰，因为他们留下了我们称之为“死海古卷”的文件。
What they believed was that the Jewish leadership, who were cooperating with the Romans, were basically doing it because Satan and his forces had gotten to them.
他们相信，与罗马人合作的犹太领导层之所以这样做，基本上是因为撒旦和他的势力已经找到了他们。
And all the influential Jews in Jerusalem are really on the dark side now.
耶路撒冷所有有影响力的犹太人现在都处于黑暗面。
They're working for the enemy, the evil one.
他们正在为敌人、邪恶的人工作。
We'll call him Belier.
我们称他为贝利尔。
We'll call him Beelzebub, which means "Lord of the Flies." We'll call him a prince of darkness.
我们称他为别西卜，意思是“蝇王”。我们称他为黑暗王子。
We call him the Satan.
我们称他为撒旦。
So that's totally new in Israel.
所以这在以色列是全新的。
And so these are the people, and this is the period when the New Testament is being written down in the first century.
这些人就是这些人，这是新约在一世纪写成的时期。
When Jesus is alive, anyway.
无论如何，当耶稣还活着的时候。
And I think that Jesus of Nazareth and John the Baptist have a view which is shared with the Essenes, who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.
我认为拿撒勒人耶稣和施洗者约翰与撰写死海古卷的艾赛尼派有着相同的观点。
And it is at the same time.
而且是在同一时间。
And I think they had a considerable influence on Jesus of Nazareth and John the Baptist.
我认为他们对拿撒勒人耶稣和施洗约翰有相当大的影响。
And their followers.
以及他们的追随者。
In fact, Satan shows up when the very first Book of Gospels is written down, the Gospel of Mark.
事实上，当第一本福音书《马可福音》写成时，撒旦就出现了。
Right at the beginning, the very first chapter.
就在开头，第一章。
It says that as soon as Jesus received the spirit of God, recognized that he was the Son of God, the Messiah-- which is what it meant, the King of Israel-- the spirit drove him into the wilderness to do combat with the Satan.
它说，一旦耶稣接受了神的灵，承认他是神的儿子，弥赛亚——这就是以色列的王——圣灵就驱使他到旷野去与撒但作战。
It's like a supernatural battle's going on there.
那里好像正在发生一场超自然的战斗。
And here, the Satan appears like the threat, the forces of darkness, trying to stop Jesus from doing what the author here thinks is God's will.
在这里，撒旦就像威胁、黑暗势力一样，试图阻止耶稣做作者认为是上帝旨意的事情。
And then as the New Testament continues, do we learn more about the Satan, Satan?
然后，随着新约圣经的继续，我们是否对撒旦有了更多的了解？
Yes, what's necessary about the Satan for the followers of Jesus is that they have to explain, well, if Jesus was God's Messiah, his chosen future ruler of the world, why did he fail?
是的，对于耶稣的追随者来说，撒旦的必要之处在于他们必须解释，好吧，如果耶稣是上帝的弥赛亚，他选择的未来世界的统治者，为什么他会失败？
Why did his opponents arrest him, and torture him, and kill him?
为什么他的对手逮捕他、折磨他、杀害他？
I mean, if he were God's Messiah, that couldn't have happened, right?
我的意思是，如果他是上帝的弥赛亚，那就不会发生，对吧？
The defeat and destruction of Jesus is a massive problem for Jesus' followers.
耶稣的失败和毁灭对于耶稣的追随者来说是一个巨大的问题。
And the way they deal with it-- the followers of Jesus say, well, it could only happen because the evil power was embodied in the world in other people and captured him and killed him.
他们处理这件事的方式——耶稣的追随者说，好吧，这只会发生，因为邪恶的力量体现在世界上的其他人身上，抓住了他并杀死了他。
Oh, in other words, there's this evil force out there with supernatural powers as well.
噢，也就是说，外面还有这种具有超自然力量的邪恶势力。
And that's the reason why he gets turned over to the authorities and killed.
这就是他被移交给当局并被杀害的原因。
Exactly.
确切地。
With supernatural powers, Ira, but at the same time, supernatural powers that work through human beings.
艾拉拥有超自然力量，但同时，超自然力量也通过人类发挥作用。
Pagels says a lot of things that we associate with Satan-- the way he looks, with horns and a tail-- that is not in the Bible.
佩格斯说了很多我们与撒旦联系在一起的事情——他长着角和尾巴的样子——这在圣经中是没有的。
That was added by medieval Christians and others.
这是中世纪基督徒和其他人添加的。
The idea that Satan presides over hell-- that is not in the Bible.
圣经中没有撒但掌管地狱的观念。
In the Book of Revelation, there are references to an abyss of fire where evil people go and are punished and burned forever.
在《启示录》中，提到了一个火渊，邪恶的人会去那里受到惩罚并永远被烧死。
But in Revelation, that stuff is presided over by two other figures, not by Satan.
但在启示录中，这些东西是由另外两个人物主持的，而不是撒旦。
But what is in the Bible is the central fact that so many Christians still believe today about Satan-- that he's out there, trying to tempt people into darkness and sin, into opposing God.
但圣经中的核心事实是，今天许多基督徒仍然相信撒旦——他就在那里，试图引诱人们陷入黑暗和罪恶，反对上帝。
The early Christians believed--
早期的基督徒相信——
That Satan is trying to trap God's people and all the people who disagree with us follow Satan.
撒但正试图陷害上帝的子民，而所有与我们意见不同的人都追随撒但。
Satan's trying to take over this country.
撒旦正试图接管这个国家。
Look at what this person, and that person, and this person are doing and saying.
看看这个人、那个人、这个人在做什么、说什么。
They know exactly who they mean.
他们清楚地知道自己指的是谁。
They could give you names and addresses.
他们可以给你姓名和地址。
That's what struck me most forcibly, is the way that this image hasn't gone anywhere, the same is true today.
最让我印象深刻的是，这张照片并没有消失，今天也是如此。
People say, Satan's trying to take over this country.
人们说，撒旦正试图接管这个国家。
When you ask them, they know who they're talking about.
当你问他们时，他们知道他们在谈论谁。
Right.
正确的。
Elaine Pagels And the powerful effect of the figure of Satan, the way it's played out, means that you can't negotiate with people you disagree with.
伊莱恩·佩格斯 (Elaine Pagels) 撒旦形象的强大影响，以及它的表现方式，意味着你无法与你不同意的人谈判。
Because they're evil.
因为他们是邪恶的。
You have to annihilate them if you can.
如果可以的话，你必须消灭他们。
Elaine Pagels.
伊莱恩·佩格斯。
Her book about this and more is called The Origin of Satan.
她关于这一点以及更多内容的书叫做《撒旦的起源》。
Act Three, The Devil You Know.
第三幕，你认识的魔鬼。
So Satan, we're told, does his work through human beings-- you, and me, and everybody else.
因此，我们被告知，撒旦通过人类——你、我和其他人——来完成他的工作。
Gets under our skins, makes us do things, often without us ever knowing that that's what's happening.
它深入我们的内心，迫使我们做事，而我们常常不知道这就是正在发生的事情。
Which brings us to this tiny news story that we noticed a few months back-- maybe describing the work of Satan, maybe just the flawed actions of human beings.
这让我们想起了几个月前我们注意到的这个小新闻故事——也许描述了撒旦的工作，也许只是人类的错误行为。
It happened in an Antarctica.
事情发生在南极洲。
A Russian scientist, Sergey Savitsky, and a colleague of his, a welder, Oleg Beloguzov, were part of a team that was stationed there for years, working together in a small, remote station with only two Russian TV channels and some sort of exercise room and a library.
俄罗斯科学家谢尔盖·萨维茨基 (Sergey Savitsky) 和他的焊工同事奥列格·贝洛佐夫 (Oleg Beloguzov) 是一个驻扎在那里多年的团队的一员，他们在一个偏远的小站里一起工作，那里只有两个俄罗斯电视频道、某种健身室和图书馆。
One of them, the scientist, really liked reading.
其中一位科学家非常喜欢读书。
And the two men got into an altercation over books that ended up in the news.
两人因书籍发生争执，最终上了新闻。
And it was all so unusual, this altercation, that we wondered what actually happened?
这次争吵是如此不寻常，以至于我们想知道到底发生了什么？
How does something like this go down?
这样的事情怎么会下去呢？
And we were unable to find any interviews that they'd done, so we turned to a novelist, Gary Shteyngart-- he's Russian, by the way-- to imagine for us how this played out.
我们找不到他们做过的任何采访，所以我们求助于小说家加里·施泰恩加特（Gary Shteyngart）——顺便说一句，他是俄罗斯人——为我们想象这件事的结果。
Here's what he wrote.
这是他写的。
Dear Diary, the boys from the hunt team have brought in a catch of a dozen emperor penguins, and tomorrow, I will make my famous penguin steak in horseradish reduction.
亲爱的日记，狩猎队的小伙子们捕获了十几只帝企鹅，明天我要做我著名的辣根企鹅牛排。
Do you know how hard it is to reduce a horseradish, diary?
你知道减少一根辣根、日记有多难吗？
It is very hard.
这是非常困难的。
One of the boys said to me, Sergey, I live for your emperor penguin steak, and we drank 200 grams together to celebrate the successful hunt.
其中一个男孩对我说，谢尔盖，我为你的帝企鹅牛排而活，我们一起喝了200克来庆祝狩猎成功。
Afterwards, I showed him my penguin knife.
之后我给他看了我的企鹅刀。
He said it will take months for the penguins to thaw.
他说企鹅需要几个月的时间才能解冻。
And then I will make my steak, and the boys from the hunt will love me.
然后我会做牛排，狩猎的男孩们会喜欢我的。
Here at the Russian base, there is not much to do.
在俄罗斯基地，没什么可做的。
Internet is very restricted.
互联网非常有限。
We have access to ILovePutin.com and ShirtlessManOnHorse.org.
我们可以访问 ILovePutin.com 和 ShirtlessManOnHorse.org。
Ahh, Putin.
啊，普京。
He fixed our economy, beat the Chechens, conquered Crimea, stood up to America, and he made Russian science great again, which is why I'm here in Antarctica.
他修复了我们的经济，击败了车臣人，征服了克里米亚，对抗美国，他让俄罗斯科学再次伟大，这就是我来到南极洲的原因。
They are beautiful websites.
它们是美丽的网站。
But one can only stare at a shirtless man on a horse for so long, even when he has such muscular breasts.
但即使他有如此肌肉发达的乳房，人们也只能盯着一个骑马的赤裸上身的男人这么久。
Out here, our only salvation from boredom is the occasional sip of vodka and a small library of books.
在这里，我们摆脱无聊的唯一方法就是偶尔喝一口伏特加和一个小图书馆的书。
But all is not well in that realm.
但在这个领域一切并不顺利。
There is a man, a man who makes life difficult.
有一个男人，一个过不去的男人。
A man named Oleg whose most frightening words are, "Hey, brother, what are you reading?
一个名叫奥列格的人，他最可怕的话是：“嘿，兄弟，你在读什么？
Oh, the interesting thing about that book--"
哦，那本书的有趣之处在于——”
He and I come from opposite ends of St. Petersburg.
他和我来自圣彼得堡的两端。
I am from [NON-ENGLISH], literally a pissed-upon courtyard entryway in the hard luck Kupchino district.
我来自[非英语]，实际上是不幸的库普奇诺区的一个肮脏的庭院入口。
Many of our country's leaders come from such courtyards and have had difficult childhoods.
我国许多领导人都出身于这样的大院，都有过艰难的童年。
Oleg, meanwhile, is from a bright and airy apartment on the Petrogradskaya side of the river, where some of the courtyards are clean and freshly painted.
与此同时，奥列格来自彼得格勒河畔的一间明亮通风的公寓，那里的一些庭院干净且新粉刷过。
A real Petrogradskaya intellectual, as they say, always with a clean handkerchief and his long johns neatly tucked into his boots.
正如人们所说，一个真正的彼得格勒知识分子总是带着干净的手帕，并将长裤整齐地塞进靴子里。
Also, I believe his mother loved him.
而且，我相信他的母亲爱他。
My mother?
我的母亲？
Not so much.
没那么多。
And yet, I got better grades than Oleg in university.
然而，我在大学里的成绩比奥列格好。
And now I am a research engineer.
现在我是一名研究工程师。
While he's only a welder.
虽然他只是一名焊工。
But still, he puts on airs.
但他还是摆架子。
He likes to wear t-shirts with funny English sayings on them, like this one that has the drawing of a famous German philosopher and the line, "I just Kant."
他喜欢穿印有有趣英文谚语的 T 恤，比如这件 T 恤上有德国著名哲学家的图画和“我只是康德”这句话。
Today, I was lying on a pallet in the canteen, which also serves as our library, drinking 100 grams to myself and reading Anna Karenina when Oleg stopped by.
今天，当奥列格路过时，我躺在食堂（这里也是我们的图书馆）的托盘上，给自己喝了 100 克，读《安娜·卡列尼娜》。
Can I have a sip of that, he asked.
我可以喝一口吗，他问。
Reluctantly, I passed him a shot glass.
我不情愿地递给他一杯。
He drank it down pretentiously.
他装模作样地喝了下去。
"Ah," he said, smacking his lips, "reading Tolstoy, I see.
“啊，”他咂着嘴唇说，“读托尔斯泰，我明白了。
So how are you getting on with Anishka Karenina?"
那么你和阿尼什卡·卡列尼娜相处得怎么样？”
"It's a masterpiece," I said.
“这是一件杰作，”我说。
"Each page is a revelation.
“每一页都是一个启示。
The metaphysical aspects alone--"
仅形而上学方面——”
"Isn't Count Vronsky such a cad?" he interrupted.
“渥伦斯基伯爵不是个无赖吗？”他打断道。
"Will he ever settle down?
“他会安定下来吗？
Interesting how that turns out."
结果很有趣。”
"I'm sure it is," I said, "but, please, don't tell me anymore." "Of course," he said.
“我确信是这样，”我说，“但是，请不要再告诉我了。” “当然，”他说。
"How can I deny you the pleasure of a first reading of Anna Karenina?
“我怎么能拒绝你初读《安娜·卡列尼娜》的乐趣呢？
I'll just make myself a little lunch.
我就给自己做点午餐吧。
He went over to the microwave and warmed himself a plate of kasha with whale sausage.
他走到微波炉前，给自己热了一盘加鲸鱼香肠的卡莎。
Then he sat down to his smelly little feast.
然后他坐下来享用他那臭味十足的小盛宴。
And then as I continued reading, he began softly humming to himself.
然后，当我继续阅读时，他开始轻声哼唱。
"Chug-a chug-a chug-a chug-a chug-a chug-a choo choo!" And then he laughed.
“突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突突！”然后他笑了。
"What is the meaning of this," I asked.
“这是什么意思？”我问道。
"Oh, nothing," he said.
“哦，没什么，”他说。
"Just, living in Antarctica-- do you know what I miss the most?
“只是，生活在南极洲——你知道我最想念什么吗？
Trains.
火车。
In particular, a train station in Moscow.
特别是莫斯科的一个火车站。
Once, I was quite drunk after a literary soiree, and my ex-girlfriend almost slipped and fell onto the tracks.
有一次，我在一场文学晚会后喝得烂醉，我的前女友差点滑倒在铁轨上。
Strangely enough, her name was Anna also-- but not Anna Karenina, Anna Kashtanova.
奇怪的是，她的名字也叫安娜——但不是安娜·卡列尼娜，而是安娜·卡什塔诺娃。
Sounds pretty close, though."
不过听起来很接近。”
"Oh, just babbling on," he said.
“哦，只是胡言乱语，”他说。
"Well, never mind me.
“好吧，别管我。
Off to do some science."
去做一些科学研究吧。”
"You mean welding!" I shouted after him, but he had already waddled out of the library.
“你是说焊接！”我在他身后喊道，但他已经摇摇晃晃地出了图书馆。
I will make one unkind observation-- many intellectuals I have known walk like penguins.
我要提出一个不友善的观察——我认识的许多知识分子走路都像企鹅。
I don't know why that is so, but it is so.
我不知道为什么会这样，但事实就是如此。
The whole night, I tossed in my bunk.
整个晚上我都在床上翻来覆去。
I kept hearing Oleg's voice in my head-- my girlfriend almost slipped and fell.
我的脑海中不断响起奥列格的声音——我的女朋友差点滑倒。
Train station.
火车站。
Her name was Anna.
她的名字叫安娜。
I got up and paced the corridors.
我站起来，在走廊里踱步。
They were devoid of life, devoid of hope.
他们没有生命，没有希望。
I stole into the canteen and had just one little sip, maybe 120 grams.
我偷偷走进食堂，只喝了一小口，大概有120克。
Later that night, in my dreams, Putin asked me onto his horse.
那天晚上晚些时候，在我的梦中，普京邀请我骑上他的马。
Dear Diary, well, the penguins are still frozen.
亲爱的日记，好吧，企鹅们还被冻住了。
This morning, I tried them with my penguin knife, stabbing them over and over.
今天早上，我用我的企鹅刀尝试了它们，一遍又一遍地刺它们。
Maybe tomorrow I can start making my steaks, and then all the boys in the hunt team will love me.
也许明天我就可以开始做牛排了，然后狩猎队的所有男孩都会喜欢我。
After a long, hard day of serious scientific research, I retired to the canteen, blissfully returning to my Anna Karenina, and, for good measure, tippling 200 grams.
经过一整天辛苦的认真科学研究后，我回到食堂，幸福地回到我的安娜·卡列尼娜身边，并且，为了更好地衡量，我喝了 200 克。
I was deep into the book when Oleg rattled in, carrying something heavy and metallic looking in his arms.
当奥列格摇摇晃晃地走进来时，我正沉浸在书里，他怀里抱着一个沉重的金属东西。
"Brother," he shouted, "look what I've welded for you." And he set down the object in his hands.
“兄弟，”他喊道，“看看我给你焊了什么。”然后他放下了手中的东西。
It looked like the model of a 19th century train station.
它看起来像19世纪火车站的模型。
He had built it down to the little vendors hawking [NON-ENGLISH].
他把它建立在小贩兜售[非英语]的基础上。
And in the middle of it all stood a miniature doll he had made out to look like an American cheerleader.
中间站着一个他设计的小玩偶，看起来像美国啦啦队长。
She had the letters "AK" written on her chest.
她的胸前写着“AK”字母。
Oleg saying, "chug-a chug-a, chug-a, chug-a, chug-a, chug-a, chug-a, chug-a, choo, choo!" As he ran his miniature train out of the station and then the AK doll stepped off the platform and between the carriages.
奥列格说：“突突突突，突突突，突突突，突突突，突突突，突突突，突突突，突突突！”当他驾驶他的微型火车驶出车站时，AK 娃娃走下站台，来到车厢之间。
"Oi, oi, it hurts," Oleg shouted in a feminine voice.
“哎呀，哎呀，好痛。”奥列格用女性般的声音喊道。
"I'm dying."
“我快死了。”
I put my book down.
我放下我的书。
"Are you saying Anna Karenina commits suicide," I whispered.
“你是说安娜·卡列尼娜自杀了吗？”我低声说道。
"Oh, no," he said.
“哦，不，”他说。
"It's Anna Kashtanova, my ex-girlfriend.
“这是安娜·卡什塔诺娃，我的前女友。
I'm merely recreating her tragic end.
我只是在重现她的悲惨结局。
You are so sensitive, Sergey.
你太敏感了，谢尔盖。
Well, I must be off now.
好吧，我现在必须走了。
Science can't wait."
科学不能等待。”
"Welding," I muttered after him.
“焊接。”我在他身后低声说道。
I tried to return to the book, but my mind was raging with thought.
我试图回到书本上，但我的思绪却在翻腾。
I had to know if it was true.
我必须知道这是否属实。
Oh, Anna, beloved Anna.
哦，安娜，亲爱的安娜。
If you die in such a grisly manner, what hope is there for any of us?
如果你死得如此惨烈，我们还有什么希望呢？
I drank another 250 grams just to make it an even 450.
我又喝了 250 克，只是为了让它变成 450 克。
I sat there calmly, doing the breathing exercises that Westerners like to do after they visit India.
我平静地坐在那里，做着西方人访问印度后喜欢做的呼吸练习。
But then I couldn't help it.
但后来我就忍不住了。
I logged on to one of our base's allowed web sites, VladimirPutinDiscussesFineLiterature.gov.
我登录了我们基地允许的网站之一：VladimirPutinDiscussesFineLiterature.gov。
An image of my sober, beautifully coiffed president sitting on a comfortable chair with a blanket over his legs appeared.
一幅我的总统清醒、发型漂亮的照片出现了，他坐在舒适的椅子上，腿上盖着毯子。
Our president is, of course, as brilliant at literature as he is at economics and evading sanctions.
当然，我们的总统在文学方面的才华与他在经济和逃避制裁方面的才华一样出色。
He lifted one finger, looked into the camera and said, hello, fellow reading enthusiast.
他抬起一根手指，看着镜头说，你好，读书爱好者。
Before we begin our discussion, let me issue one spoiler alert.
在我们开始讨论之前，让我发布一个剧透警告。
Anna commits suicide by jumping under a train.
安娜跳下火车自杀。
I took my penguin knife, and I stabbed at Oleg's train station model.
我拿起企鹅刀，刺向奥列格的火车站模型。
I stabbed and stabbed at it, but it might as well have been made of iron.
我对它捅了又捅，但它还不如铁做的呢。
And then I stabbed at his Anna Karenina, or Anna Kashtanova doll.
然后我刺伤了他的安娜卡列尼娜，或者安娜卡什塔诺娃娃娃。
I stabbed at her while thick vodka tears ran down my cheeks.
我刺伤了她，浓浓的伏特加泪水从我的脸颊上流了下来。
Dear Diary, today I turn over a new leaf.
亲爱的日记，今天我翻开了新的一页。
Anna Karenina is finished for me, but I have found an old Soviet edition of an American novel, The Complaint of Tovarich Partnoy by the writer Philip Roth.
《安娜·卡列尼娜》对我来说已经完成了，但我找到了美国小说《托瓦里奇·帕特诺伊的抱怨》的苏联旧版，作者菲利普·罗斯。
And then Oleg walked in.
然后奥列格走了进来。
"Hey, brother," he said.
“嘿，兄弟，”他说。
"Could you spare 50 grams for my parched throat?" I merely grunted and pointed at the carafe of vodka.
“你能给我50克来缓解我干渴的喉咙吗？”我只是咕哝了一声，指着那瓶伏特加。
"Ah, I see you're a Philip Roth fan," he said, pouring himself a mug.
“啊，我看出你是菲利普·罗斯的粉丝，”他说，给自己倒了一杯。
"What a delightful look at the sexual mores of 1960s America."
“对 20 世纪 60 年代美国的性习俗的观察是多么令人愉快。”
I pretended not to hear him.
我假装没听见他的话。
"So many lively scenes," he continued.
“这么多生动的场景，”他继续说道。
"But I will not spoil them for you." Again, I pretended not to hear him.
“但我不会为你破坏它们。”我又假装没听见他的话。
He drank another mug of vodka.
他又喝了一杯伏特加。
Then he went over to the refrigerator and made a show of rummaging through its contents.
然后他走到冰箱前，假装翻找里面的东西。
"There's only one slice of deer liver left," he said.
“只剩下一片鹿肝了，”他说。
"Would you mind if I have it?
“如果我有的话你介意吗？
I so love liver."
我非常喜欢肝脏。”
I shrugged my shoulders and buried myself deeper into the first pages of the book.
我耸耸肩，把自己埋在书的第一页里。
"I must say, I love liver even more than Tovarich Portnoy loved liver." Again, I ignored him.
“我必须说，我对肝脏的热爱甚至超过了托瓦里奇·波特诺伊对肝脏的热爱。”我再次无视了他。
"Liver," Oleg shouted.
“肝脏，”奥列格喊道。
"It is so filled with sexy nutrients."
“它充满了性感的营养成分。”
He hopped on the dining table, waving the red slice of deer liver at me.
他跳上餐桌，向我挥舞着那片红色的鹿肝。
"Sergey," he said, "dance with me and this liver.
“谢尔盖，”他说，“与我和这个肝脏一起跳舞。
Dance with me like a woman.
像个女人一样和我跳舞。
Dance with me like my beloved former girlfriend, Anna Kashtanova, who died under a train in Moscow."
像我深爱的前女友安娜·卡什塔诺娃一样与我共舞，她在莫斯科的火车下丧生。”
And he began to dance slowly and absurdly, thrusting his hips at the liver while singing a popular old song about riding a deer over a frigid landscape.
他开始缓慢而荒唐地跳舞，一边用臀部顶着肝脏，一边唱着一首关于骑鹿穿越寒冷风景的流行老歌。
[SINGING] Oleg just laughed and continued dancing while I sat there with my book, my hands shaking.
[唱歌] 奥列格只是笑了，继续跳舞，而我坐在那里拿着书，双手颤抖。
But I held myself in check.
但我控制住了自己。
I did not say a word.
我什么也没说。
Finally he grew tired and hopped off the table.
最后他累了，从桌子上跳了下来。
He gave me a wink and said, "So, now he may perhaps to begin, yes?"
他对我眨了眨眼，说道：“那么，现在他也许可以开始了，是吗？”
As soon as he left, I ran to the computer and booted up VladimirPutinDiscussesFineLiterature.gov.
他一走，我就跑到电脑前，启动了 VladimirPutinDiscussesFineLiterature.gov。
Of course there was a segment on The Complaint of Tovarich Portnoy.
当然，还有一个关于托瓦里奇·波特诺伊的抱怨的片段。
Ours is a well-read president with beautiful blue eyes and the soft gaze of a benevolent father.
我们的总统是一位博览群书的总统，有着美丽的蓝眼睛和仁慈父亲般的柔和目光。
Putin was sitting in an easy chair beside a fireplace with a Dachschund curled at his feet, holding a copy of the Philip Roth book.
普京坐在壁炉旁的安乐椅上，脚边蜷着一只腊肠犬，手里拿着一本菲利普·罗斯的书。
"Hello, fellow literary citizens," he said brightly.
“各位文学公民，大家好。”他高兴地说。
"Before we begin, spoiler alert."
“在我们开始之前，请注意剧透。”
Dear diary, I can't.
亲爱的日记，我不能。
I can't anymore.
我不能再这样了
But I mustn't.
但我不可以。
I mustn't do anything rash.
我绝对不能做任何鲁莽的事。
I must hold it together.
我必须把它放在一起。
I try to hide under the palette, read my books without him noticing.
我试着躲在调色板下面，在他不注意的情况下看书。
But he hears my kasha belches, and then he pounces month after month after month.
但他听到我的卡莎打嗝，然后他一个月又一个月又一个月地猛扑过来。
One month, he walked in wearing the most unusual outfit.
一个月，他穿着一件最不寻常的衣服走进来。
And as I focused my gaze, I realized he was dressed as a high society woman in post-World War I London.
当我集中目光时，我意识到他穿着一战后伦敦的上流社会女性的衣服。
"Oh, hello.
“哦，你好。
I'm Mrs. Dalloway.
我是达洛维夫人。
I really should have married that fascinating Peter Walsh instead of boring, predictable Mr. Dalloway.
我真的应该嫁给迷人的彼得·沃尔什，而不是无聊、一成不变的达洛维先生。
I wonder how my party will go tonight."
我想知道今晚我的聚会会怎样。”
Or dressed in prison stripes as Raskolnikov, off to Siberia to find a spiritual redemption.
或者像拉斯科尔尼科夫一样穿着监狱条纹，前往西伯利亚寻找精神救赎。
Or creating computer generated imagery of the white whale thrashing Captain Ahab's boat to pieces.
或者创建计算机生成的白鲸将亚哈船长的船打成碎片的图像。
Where?
哪里？
Where does he find the time to do all of these things?
他从哪里找到时间做所有这些事情？
Every time he spoils an ending, it is an assault.
每次他破坏一个结局，都是一种攻击。
An assault and a robbery.
一起袭击和抢劫。
He has robbed me of the only pleasures this forsaken base can offer, the ability to leave my own consciousness and enter another's, the chance to fly away from this base, the snowbound version of hell, to London, to the great open sea, to the fabled town of Newark, New Jersey.
他剥夺了我这个被遗弃的基地所能提供的唯一乐趣，剥夺了我离开自己的意识并进入另一个人的意识的能力，剥夺了我飞离这个基地的机会，这个基地是雪地版的地狱，飞往伦敦，飞往广阔的大海，飞往传说中的新泽西州纽瓦克小镇。
No, I mustn't do it.
不，我不应该这样做。
I will not do it.
我不会这样做。
But every night, the same dream, the same knife, the same dead Oleg.
但每天晚上，同样的梦，同样的刀，同样死去的奥列格。
I am not Raskolnikov.
我不是拉斯柯尔尼科夫。
I will not go to Siberia.
我不会去西伯利亚。
But even if I did do something, it would not be a crime.
但即使我做了什么，也不会构成犯罪。
It would be the self-defense of my very sanity.
这将是我理智的自卫。
Dear Diary, I spent the morning in the loading bay slicing up my penguin steaks.
亲爱的日记，我花了一个早上在装货区切企鹅牛排。
Some of the boys from the hunt team came and cheered me on.
狩猎队的一些男孩过来为我加油。
We drank 500 grams each, and I wrestled with one of them beneath the endless sky.
我们每人喝了500克，我在无尽的天空下与其中的一个摔跤。
It was a happy start to the day, but still I was not satisfied.
这是一天愉快的开始，但我仍然不满意。
I needed more literature.
我需要更多的文学作品。
I finished my vodka and, covered in penguin entrails, stumbled toward the canteen.
我喝完伏特加，沾满企鹅内脏，跌跌撞撞地走向食堂。
I chose another English language book in translation, one with a sprightly title-- Shopagolik Takes Manhattan, by the British author Sophie Kinsella.
我选择了另一本翻译成英文的书，书名很明快——英国作家索菲·金塞拉（Sophie Kinsella）写的《Shopagolik Takes曼哈顿》。
The cover promised to tell the tale of the, quote, "irrepressible one-woman shopping phenomenon Becky Bloomwood." I opened the book, eyeing the doorway for any signs of Oleg.
封面承诺讲述“难以抑制的独身女性购物现象贝基·布鲁姆伍德”的故事。我打开书，盯着门口寻找奥列格的踪迹。
Shopagolik was a remarkable volume, so full of life and love and the deep, meaningful conflicts of upper middle-class men and women in the West.
《Shopagolik》是一本非凡的书，充满了生命和爱，以及西方上层中产阶级男女的深刻而有意义的冲突。
It was, in some ways, an instruction manual on how to live with the one you love.
从某些方面来说，它是一本关于如何与所爱的人一起生活的指导手册。
He walked in after I was about 700 grams into my carafe.
当我将大约 700 克放入玻璃水瓶中时，他走了进来。
"You stink of penguin," he said.
“你身上有企鹅的臭味，”他说。
"But I still love you, brother." I picked up my knife and brandished it in the air.
“但我仍然爱你，兄弟。”我拿起刀，在空中挥舞起来。
This was the equivalent of a warning shot.
这相当于一次警告射击。
But Oleg paid me no mind.
但奥列格并不理睬我。
"Ah," he said.
“啊，”他说。
"Shopagolik Takes Manhattan-- what a fine way to break up the interminable Antarctic day.
“Shopagolik 占领曼哈顿——这是打破无休止的南极日的好方法。
He climbed on the table again.
他又爬上了桌子。
"Dance with me, Sergey," he said.
“和我一起跳舞吧，谢尔盖，”他说。
"Dance like the Shopagolik danced in Manhattan.
“像曼哈顿的 Shopagolik 舞那样跳舞。
Now, I have always wondered about the denouement of that novel..."
现在，我一直想知道那本小说的结局……”
But he never finished his sentence.
但他的话还没说完。
I was on him.
我在他身上。
We were both off the table on the floor, reeking of cigarette butts and spilled vodka.
我们都离开桌子，躺在地板上，散发着烟头和溢出的伏特加的臭味。
The knife was quick and sure in my hands.
刀在我手里又快又稳。
And his chest soft and flabby, nothing like our president's, received my fevered blows.
他的胸部柔软而松弛，与我们总统的胸部完全不同，接受了我的狂热打击。
There was blood everywhere.
到处都是血。
"How's that for an ending," I shouted.
“这样的结局怎么样？”我喊道。
Punta Arenas, Chile.
智利蓬塔阿雷纳斯。
Dear Diary, it has been a week since I've been airlifted here.
亲爱的日记，我被空运到这里已经一周了。
My care is good, and the doctors and nurses are nice.
我的护理很好，医生和护士也很好。
One nurse, Fernanda, smiles at me in a special way as she brings me my lunch of chicken asada.
一位名叫费尔南达 (Fernanda) 的护士在给我送来鸡肉浅田午餐时，以一种特殊的方式对我微笑。
I must learn Spanish.
我必须学习西班牙语。
I do not know why Sergey stabbed me.
我不知道谢尔盖为什么刺伤我。
I thought he was my friend.
我以为他是我的朋友。
I was certainly his only friend.
我当然是他唯一的朋友。
He was a drunken lout-- lazy, constantly muttering about politics and some nonsense Putin literary site.
他是一个醉酒的粗人——懒惰，不断嘀咕政治和普京文学网站上的一些废话。
They found his diary after they arrested him.
他们逮捕他后发现了他的日记。
Vodka does not really have a smell, but every page reeked of it.
伏特加其实没有味道，但每一页都散发着臭味。
Every page was a testament to his drunken haze.
每一页都是他醉酒迷雾的证明。
Talk about fiction.
谈论小说。
Yes, maybe I told him of a few of the endings.
是的，也许我告诉了他一些结局。
But it is only because I wanted to talk to him about other things.
但这只是因为我想和他谈谈其他事情。
Not just about novels, but about my ailing mother in a little village near Omsk, and the girl from the Regional Planning Bureau who once sort of smiled at me.
不只是关于小说，还有我在鄂木斯克附近的一个小村庄里生病的母亲，以及曾经对我微笑的地区规划局的女孩。
And-- look, I spoiled the endings so that we could move on to affairs of the heart and the soul.
而且——看，我破坏了结局，以便我们可以继续讨论心灵和灵魂的事情。
But I never dressed up like Mrs. Dalloway.
但我从来没有打扮得像达洛维夫人。
How do you think I could afford a Mrs. Dalloway costume on a Russian welder's salary?
你认为我怎样才能用一个俄罗斯焊工的工资买得起达洛维夫人的服装？
It was merely my snow parka.
这只是我的雪地派克大衣。
And a computer generated recreation of Moby Dick?
还有计算机生成的《莫比迪克》游戏？
And dancing with a deer liver?
还拿着鹿肝跳舞？
What the hell?
我勒个去？
Fine, maybe I did build a recreation of a 19th-century Moscow railroad station.
好吧，也许我确实重建了一座 19 世纪莫斯科火车站。
I mean, who wouldn't?
我的意思是，谁不会呢？
I wanted to bring the story to life for him.
我想为他讲述这个故事。
And I wanted him to be my friend.
我希望他成为我的朋友。
Because God knows, nobody else would.
因为上帝知道，没有人会知道。
All the other men on the base hated the very drunken sight of him.
基地里的所有其他人都讨厌看到他醉醺醺的样子。
And there is no penguin hunt team.
而且没有企鹅狩猎队。
Hunting penguins is illegal.
狩猎企鹅是非法的。
Sergey disappeared into books to avoid life, to avoid me, to make a religion out of his loneliness.
谢尔盖消失在书本中，是为了逃避生活，逃避我，为了摆脱孤独而建立一种宗教。
He didn't want to know how it would all end.
他不想知道这一切会如何结束。
But we all know how it ends, don't we?
但我们都知道结局如何，不是吗？
Ask Ahab.
问亚哈。
Ask Anna Karenina.
问安娜·卡列尼娜。
Ask that fucking Shopagolik.
问问那个该死的 Shopagolik。
Down at the base, the dome of the endless sky is its own prison.
在底部，无尽天空的穹顶就是它自己的监狱。
To look up at it is to see just how far away from God one can be.
仰望它，就可以看出一个人离上帝有多远。
It's not quite hell, a place in which God has a unique, almost competitive interest.
这并不完全是地狱，上帝对这个地方有着独特的、几乎是竞争性的兴趣。
It's just a place he would never think to look-- a place he ignores, a place where, left to our own devices, we become exactly who we are.
这只是一个他永远不会想到去看看的地方——一个他忽视的地方，一个让我们自己决定的地方，我们会成为真正的自己。
That was Gary Shteyngart reading an original short story that he wrote for us.
那是加里·施泰因加特在读他为我们写的原创短篇小说。
The other reader, the one at the end, was actor Josh Gad.
另一位读者，即最后的读者，是演员乔什·加德。
Shteyngart is the author of a bunch of sad and funny novels.
施泰恩加特是一系列悲伤而有趣的小说的作者。
His latest is called Lake Success.
他的最新作品名为成功湖。
And just so there's no confusion about what actually happened, yes, in real life, reportedly Sergey stabbed and nearly killed Oleg with a kitchen knife because Oleg was spoiling the endings to books that Sergey was reading.
这样就不会混淆实际发生的事情，是的，在现实生活中，据报道谢尔盖用菜刀刺伤并差点杀死奥列格，因为奥列格破坏了谢尔盖正在读的书的结局。
Our program was produced today by Ben Calhoun.
我们今天的节目由本·卡尔霍恩制作。
The people who put our show together includes Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Stephanie Foo, Damien Gray, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Miki Meeks, Stone Nelson, Nadia Raymond, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney.
制作我们节目的人员包括 Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Aviva DeKornfeld、Stephanie Foo、Damien Gray、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Miki Meeks、Stone Nelson、Nadia Raymond、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney。
Our managing editor is Susan Burton and David Kestenbaum.
我们的总编辑是苏珊·伯顿（Susan Burton）和大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆（David Kestenbaum）。
Our production fellow, Anna Martin-- it is her last week here.
我们的制作人员安娜·马丁——这是她在这里的最后一周。
She has been spectacular.
她非常出色。
We will miss her as she heads off to her new job at Slate.
当她前往 Slate 开始新工作时，我们会想念她。
Special thanks today to Gabriella Munoz, to the Reverend Dr. Joe McGarry, Margaret Mitchell, Clifton Black, David Frankfurter, Adam Davidson, Astrid Lange, Bobby Baird, Taylor Stewie, Tim Curtis, and Sally Gonzalez.
今天特别感谢加布里埃拉·穆尼奥斯、乔·麦加里牧师、玛格丽特·米切尔、克利夫顿·布莱克、大卫·法兰克福、亚当·戴维森、阿斯特丽德·兰格、鲍比·贝尔德、泰勒·斯图伊、蒂姆·柯蒂斯和莎莉·冈萨雷斯。
Our website-- ThisAmericanLife.org, where you can listen to our archive of 665 non-Satanic episodes and this one as well for absolutely free.
我们的网站 -- ThisAmericanLife.org，在这里您可以收听我们存档的 665 个非撒旦剧集，这一集也是完全免费的。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know when he's asking Satan for his favorite kind of weather, this is what Torey says.
你知道，当他向撒旦询问他最喜欢的天气时，托雷就是这么说的。
Hail Satan.
撒旦万岁。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。