660: Hoaxing Yourself - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #660 | October 25, 2024 660: Hoaxing Yourself Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 660 集 | 2024 年 10 月 25 日 660：欺骗自己 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Parents, here is all the evidence you need that TV is bad for kids, especially public TV.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 家长们，这里有您需要的所有证据，证明电视对孩子有害，尤其是公共电视。
When Sean was 14, he loved watching those British TV shows they're always running on PBS-- Masterpiece Theater, Doctor Who.
肖恩 14 岁时，他喜欢看 PBS 上经常播放的英国电视节目——杰作剧院、神秘博士。
And then there was this show that I would stay up really late and watch, and tape, and watch over and over again the tapes, called Dempsey and Makepeace, which was about an American detective who went to London because he had been, like, setup at home.
然后还有一个节目，我会熬夜看，录，一遍又一遍地看，叫做《登普西和梅克皮斯》，讲的是一位美国侦探去了伦敦，因为他在家里被安排了。
And he was teamed up with a woman who was this aristocrat named Lady Harriet Makepeace.
他与一位名叫哈里特·梅克皮斯夫人的贵族女士合作。
And I was really on her side.
我真的站在她一边。
[LAUGHS] Sean Cole I thought, you know, she's got it going on.
[笑] 肖恩·科尔 我想，你知道，她已经成功了。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Ira Glass What Sean liked about Lady Harriet Makepeace, and all the other Brits on TV, was their aloofness, how they seemed above it all, how they looked down on Americans.
艾拉·格拉斯 肖恩喜欢哈丽特·梅克皮斯夫人以及电视上所有其他英国人的地方是他们的冷漠，他们看起来高高在上，看不起美国人。
Which Sean did also, convinced there must be something wrong with the nation that produced jocks and bullies, who harassed him in school.
肖恩也这么做了，他确信这个产生运动员和恶霸的国家一定出了什么问题，他们在学校骚扰了他。
And sometimes, joking around with his friends, he would talk with a British accent.
有时，他会用英国口音与朋友开玩笑。
And then it was just something that spiraled out of control.
然后事情就失控了。
I know that eventually, I was just using an English accent literally from waking to sleeping, morning, noon, and night.
我知道，最终我从早上、中午到晚上，从醒来到睡觉，都在使用英语口音。
Sean spoke with a British accent from the time he was 14 until he was 16.
肖恩从 14 岁到 16 岁一直说着英国口音。
And at some point, his mom thought, you know, maybe I need to do something about this, and took him to see a psychiatrist.
在某个时候，他的妈妈想，你知道，也许我需要对此做点什么，并带他去看精神科医生。
I don't know the different schools of psychology, but he was really very confrontative.
我不知道不同的心理学流派，但他确实非常具有对抗性。
And he's like, well, you've got to stop doing this, he said, because you're not British.
他说，好吧，你必须停止这样做，因为你不是英国人。
And my mom just sort of sat over next to me, and she sort of went, yeah, to agree with him, and to sort of help him in showing me this.
我妈妈就坐在我旁边，是的，她同意他的观点，并帮助他向我展示这一点。
Sean was furious.
肖恩很生气。
He had an impulse to lecture the guy on how, in fact, he was British.
他很想教训那个人，让他知道他实际上是英国人。
And the only problem with that was that A, he knew very well that he was not.
唯一的问题是A，他很清楚自己不是。
And B, his mom was sitting right there.
B，他妈妈就坐在那儿。
She was sure to contradict him.
她肯定会反驳他。
He didn't know what to do.
他不知道该怎么办。
His situation seemed impossible.
他的处境似乎是不可能的。
Because that's what I was thinking.
因为我就是这么想的。
Like there has to be a way that I can be British still.
就像必须有办法让我仍然是英国人一样。
There must be a way that this is true somehow.
一定有某种方式可以证明这是正确的。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Ira Glass Well, today on our radio program, stories of people who tell a lie, and they get to the point where they believe the lie more than anybody else does.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：嗯，今天在我们的广播节目中，讲述了那些说谎的人的故事，他们比任何人都更相信谎言。
It feels like it must be true.
感觉这一定是真的。
Happens all the time.
一直在发生。
And can I say, we are not even going to get into what happens with political figures in this show, kidding themselves about the facts of things.
我可以说，我们甚至不会在这个节目中讨论政治人物发生的事情，用事实来欺骗自己。
Today we have stories of civilians, people like you and me, basically pulling hoaxes on ourselves.
今天，我们有关于平民的故事，像你我这样的人，基本上是在欺骗自己。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Act One of our program today, The Sun Never Sets-- On The Moosewood Restaurant, in which two young men, both from small towns, try on new identities-- false identities-- and what they have to do to keep the lies going.
我们今天节目的第一幕，《太阳永不落——在穆斯伍德餐厅》，两个来自小镇的年轻人尝试新的身份——虚假的身份——以及他们必须做些什么来让谎言继续下去。
Act Two, Conning the Con Men.
第二幕，欺骗骗子。
Nancy Updike reports on a federal sting operation, and how it caught con men by setting up a con of its own.
南希·厄普代克报道了一次联邦诱捕行动，以及该行动如何通过设立自己的骗局来抓获骗子。
Act Three, Oedipus Hex.
第三幕，俄狄浦斯十六进制。
A little kid tries to get rid of his own father with a very, very unlikely plan.
一个小孩试图用一个非常非常不可能的计划摆脱自己的父亲。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, The Sun Never Sets-- On the Moosewood Restaurant.
第一幕，太阳永不落——穆斯伍德餐厅。
So this is the story of two young people who, for a period in their lives, in their search to figure out who they were, pretended to be people who they were not.
这是两个年轻人的故事，他们在生命中的一段时间内，为了弄清楚自己是谁，假装成自己不是的人。
We're going to hear from Sean Cole and from Joel Lovell.
我们将听取肖恩·科尔和乔尔·洛弗尔的发言。
We're going to start with Sean.
我们将从肖恩开始。
Today's show is a rerun.
今天的节目是重播。
This was recorded years ago.
这是几年前记录的。
These days, Sean is a producer here at our show.
这些天，肖恩是我们节目的制片人。
Sean grew up in a small town in Massachusetts, a town that was approximately 3,350 miles from London.
肖恩 (Sean) 在马萨诸塞州的一个小镇长大，该小镇距离伦敦约 3,350 英里。
It was second nature.
这是第二天性。
It was first nature.
这是第一本性。
To this day, I have trouble saying, oh, I faked an accent for two years.
直到今天，我都很难说，哦，我假装口音两年了。
I mean, I had an accent for two years.
我的意思是，我有口音已经有两年了。
I like--
我喜欢——
Sean, could I just get to take a deep breath, and describe for me what you had for lunch today, or perhaps for breakfast this morning, in as close to the accent that you can--
肖恩，我可以深吸一口气，用尽可能接近的口音向我描述一下你今天午餐吃的东西，或者今天早上早餐吃的东西吗——
As close as I can?
尽可能接近？
Ira Glass --muster?
艾拉·格拉斯——集合？
Yeah.
是的。
OK.
好的。
I'm going to take a sip of water here.
我要在这里喝一口水。
Well, Ira, I had a salad.
好吧，艾拉，我吃了一份沙拉。
I had it at the Boston House of Pancakes-- or Pizza, rather.
我是在波士顿煎饼店（或者更确切地说是披萨店）吃的。
What was the beverage?
饮料是什么？
Sean Cole It was a Snapple, just lemon flavored.
肖恩·科尔 这是一个 Snapple，只是柠檬味的。
I don't really like the peach.
我其实不太喜欢桃子。
Joel Lovell's story began when he left the working class town where he grew up in upstate New York.
乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 的故事始于他离开纽约州北部他长大的工人阶级小镇时。
His parents owned a liquor store in a small town.
他的父母在一个小镇拥有一家酒类商店。
He was the first member of his family to go to college.
他是家里第一个上大学的成员。
And it was an especially big deal, because he got into an Ivy League school, Cornell.
这是一件特别重要的事情，因为他进入了常春藤盟校康奈尔大学。
It was one of those first days of college.
这是大学的第一天。
You know, when you spend a lot of time, everybody kind of moves in hordes, and you spend a lot of time in each other's dorm rooms.
你知道，当你花很多时间时，每个人都会成群结队地移动，并且你会在彼此的宿舍里度过很多时间。
And there were about oh, I don't know, 10 or 11 of us in this one guy's room.
哦，我不知道，我们大约有 10 或 11 个人在这个人的房间里。
And we were just like sitting around, eating pizza, and talking, and people were talking about where they were from, and what their parents did, and stuff like that.
我们就像坐在一起，吃披萨，聊天，人们谈论他们来自哪里，他们的父母做什么，等等。
And there was one guy whose dad was a doctor for the Knicks.
有一个人的父亲是尼克斯队的医生。
There was another guy whose father was an elected representative from New York State.
还有一个人，他的父亲是纽约州的民选代表。
And then this other guy, whose father was on the World Court-- literally was a member of the World Court.
然后另一个人，他的父亲是世界法院的成员——实际上是世界法院的成员。
Oh, my.
哦，我的。
Joel Lovell And so it suddenly seemed like this incredibly sort of impressive group to me, and they seemed like just sort of worldly in ways that was just beyond my wildest imagination, and worldly beyond what I am now, frankly.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）因此，对我来说，这突然变得令人难以置信的令人印象深刻的团体，他们似乎有点世俗，超出了我最疯狂的想象，坦率地说，也超出了我现在的世俗。
And I remember sort of sitting there at the time thinking, oh, my god.
我记得当时坐在那里想，哦，天哪。
I'm so out of my league here.
我在这里太格格不入了。
And then completely unplanned, I suddenly said-- as a slice of pizza was passed to me, this pizza with sausage on top of it, I said, you know, I can't take that because my parents are vegetarians.
然后完全出乎意料的是，我突然说——当一片披萨递给我时，上面有香肠的披萨，我说，你知道，我不能接受这个，因为我的父母是素食主义者。
And everybody in the room sort of turned and looked at me because it wasn't even as if I said, well, I'm a vegetarian.
房间里的每个人都转过身来看着我，因为我什至没有说，好吧，我是素食主义者。
But I said, you know, my parents are vegetarians.
但我说，你知道，我的父母都是素食主义者。
And there's a sort of puzzled look on everybody in the room.
房间里的每个人都露出一种困惑的表情。
And I said, well, and I am, too.
我说，好吧，我也是。
I've never eaten meat.
我从来没有吃过肉。
And I'm not entirely-- well, I mean, I have some ideas now about why I said that.
我并不完全——嗯，我的意思是，我现在对我为什么这么说有一些想法。
But at the time, I had no idea what I was saying.
但当时，我不知道自己在说什么。
It was like, suddenly I'd become possessed, and I had to think of something to say about myself that seemed interesting.
就好像，我突然着了魔，我必须想出一些关于自己的、看起来很有趣的话。
And vegetarianism was the thing that I chose.
素食主义是我选择的。
Now, do you tell people that you were actually from England?
现在，你会告诉人们你实际上来自英国吗？
No, no, never that I was from Britain.
不，不，从来没有说过我来自英国。
But in a way, that I was British.
但在某种程度上，我是英国人。
You know, there was a real distinction there for me.
你知道，这对我来说是一个真正的区别。
Like I'd taken it on, like I was culturally British now.
就像我接受了它一样，就像我现在在文化上是英国人一样。
Well, I think what it was is I think I did some sort of calculus that took like a nanosecond in my head.
好吧，我想那是什么，我想我做了某种微积分，在我的脑海里花了一纳秒。
And I thought, you know, I can't actually lie about what my parents do.
我想，你知道，我实际上不能对我父母的所作所为撒谎。
But I think the connections that I was making were this, that somehow because I was from this town in the sticks, if my folks were vegetarians, then the whole history that that suggested was that they were sort of these kind of leftist, academic radicals who had sort of dropped out of society, and gone back to the land.
但我认为我所建立的联系是这样的，不知怎的，因为我来自这个偏僻的小镇，如果我的家人是素食主义者，那么整个历史表明他们是某种左派、学术激进分子，他们有点脱离了社会，回到了土地。
And I was living in this bumpkin town in upstate New York.
我住在纽约州北部的这个乡巴佬小镇。
And my folks were living some sort of life that was driven by their political philosophy, rather than, I was just a guy who grew up in upstate New York.
我的父母过着某种由他们的政治哲学驱动的生活，而不是，我只是一个在纽约州北部长大的人。
You know, I did the old kid thing of, like, wishing that my real British parents would come and tell me I was adopted, and take me back to London.
你知道，我做了老孩子的事情，比如，希望我真正的英国父母能来告诉我我是被收养的，然后带我回伦敦。
So I'm sitting there in the room, and all these guys are looking at me.
所以我坐在房间里，所有这些人都在看着我。
And they're like, dude.
他们就像，伙计。
What do you eat?
你吃什么？
And suddenly I realized in that moment how little I knew about vegetarianism.
那一刻我突然意识到我对素食主义知之甚少。
And I kind of tried to be sort of vague about it.
我试图对此含糊其辞。
You know, we eat salads, and lentils.
你知道，我们吃沙拉和扁豆。
I remember sort of saying lentils a lot.
我记得经常说扁豆。
And there was a gap, certainly, in my education, because I would be using words that Americans just don't use.
当然，我的教育存在差距，因为我会使用美国人不使用的单词。
You know, instead of saying drugstore, I would say chemist.
你知道，我不会说药店，而是说药店。
Or I would try my best to remember to say bonnet instead of hood, or boot instead of trunk, but I often couldn't.
或者我会尽力记住说“bonnet”而不是“hood”，或者说“boot”而不是“trunk”，但我常常做不到。
On the meal plan, I ended up eating a lot of big piles of iceberg lettuce and chickpeas.
在膳食计划中，我最终吃了很多大堆卷心生菜和鹰嘴豆。
And during that time, would you find yourself sneaking to go to get meat somewhere?
在那段时间里，你会发现自己偷偷地去某个地方买肉吗？
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
At first, I would go really far from campus in order to have like a BLT.
起初，我会去离校园很远的地方去参加 BLT。
There's this diner downtown in Ithaca.
伊萨卡市中心有一家餐馆。
It felt incredibly illicit.
这感觉非常非法。
I'd be sitting there, and I'd have some reading material or something with me.
我会坐在那里，随身携带一些阅读材料或其他东西。
And I'd be the lonely guy in my booth.
我会是我的摊位上孤独的人。
And I would order the BLT, and I would sort of watch it coming from across the room with its toothpick in the top of it, and a side of French fries with the meat gravy on top.
我会点生菜番茄三明治，我会看着它从房间的另一边传来，上面插着牙签，还有一份上面有肉汁的炸薯条。
And when it landed on the table, it would just seem like this incredibly sort of wonderful moment, you know, when you're doing something just totally unlike what anybody would expect of you.
当它落在桌面上时，这看起来就像是一个令人难以置信的美妙时刻，你知道，当你做的事情完全不同于任何人对你的期望时。
I was a nobody.
我本来就是一个无名小卒。
I mean, I was living in an extremely small kind of rural town in the middle of nowhere.
我的意思是，我住在一个非常小的乡村小镇，地处偏僻的地方。
It was, I guess, in a way, this was my way of traveling, in a way, and of being somebody, and sort of achieving an identity, which I guess I didn't feel like I had.
我想，在某种程度上，这是我旅行的方式，在某种程度上，这是我成为某人的方式，也是实现某种身份的方式，但我想我并不觉得自己拥有这种身份。
I didn't feel like I-- I'm just sort of really realizing this now.
我不觉得我——我只是现在才真正意识到这一点。
But I guess I didn't feel as though I had anything that made me up.
但我想我并没有觉得自己有什么能让我变得坚强的东西。
I mean, what I realized fairly quickly is that if this is going to be believable, I actually have to-- well, I have to believe in it.
我的意思是，我很快意识到，如果这要可信，我实际上必须——嗯，我必须相信它。
But I also began to not only believe, but really sort of take on as my persona, all of the stuff that I imagined was associated with vegetarianism.
但我也开始不仅相信，而且真正把我想象中的所有东西都与素食主义联系起来。
Like what?
比如什么？
Joel Lovell Well, certain political convictions, and ways of dress.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）：嗯，某些政治信念和着装方式。
I wore ripped jeans and I wore combat boots, but I also wore like a kind of stage jacket that you would see in a community theater production of Hamlet.
我穿着破洞牛仔裤和军靴，但我也穿得像一种舞台夹克，就像你在社区剧院制作的《哈姆雷特》中看到的那样。
Yeah.
是的。
You know, I bought sandals.
你知道吗，我买了凉鞋。
I very specifically remember going down to this thrift store in downtown Ithaca and buying a pair of fatigue shorts, which just seemed like, you know, I might as well have been Che Guevara at that point.
我非常清楚地记得去伊萨卡市中心的一家旧货店买了一条疲劳短裤，你知道，那时我就像切格瓦拉一样。
[LAUGHS] Joel Lovell I mean, as far as I was concerned, yeah, I was a dangerous leftist.
[笑]乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）我的意思是，就我而言，是的，我是一个危险的左派。
Did you, at any point during this, find yourself in the following argument, where you would say, I've never had a hamburger.
在这期间的任何时候，你是否发现自己陷入了以下争论，你会说，我从来没有吃过汉堡。
And somebody would insist, oh, you must've had meat at some point.
有人会坚持说，哦，你一定在某个时候吃过肉。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass And then you had to argue your side?
[笑] Ira Glass 然后你就必须为自己的立场辩护？
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
It wasn't pretty.
这并不漂亮。
And of course, you know, I had grown up-- just to put this in context for a second, if you don't mind.
当然，你知道，我已经长大了——如果你不介意的话，只是为了把这个放在上下文中。
Mhm.
嗯。
Joel Lovell Not only had I had hundreds of hamburgers and gone to the McDonald's drive-through hundreds of times, but the counterpoint situation that I always think about when I remember this time is that when I was a senior in high school, my family, for sort of time-saving reasons, decided that a great thing to do would be to go to Arby's Roast Beef.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）：我不仅吃过数百个汉堡，去过数百次麦当劳汽车餐厅，而且当我记得这一次时，我总是想到的相反情况是，当我读高中时，我的家人出于节省时间的原因，决定去阿比烤牛肉是一件很棒的事情。
I don't know if you have those out in Chicago.
不知道芝加哥有没有。
I think they're countrywide.
我认为他们是全国性的。
So my dad and I would go to Arby's on, say, like a Thursday afternoon or something, after I got out of school.
所以我和爸爸会在我放学后，比如周四下午之类的时间去阿比家。
And we would go in there and we would buy 48 Arby's roast beef sandwiches.
我们会去那里买 48 个 Arby's 烤牛肉三明治。
[LAUGHTER] And they would put them in this cardboard box, and we would bring home this giant box full of those tinfoil-covered Arby's roast beef sandwiches.
[笑声]他们会把它们放在这个纸板箱里，我们会把这个巨大的盒子带回家，里面装满了锡纸覆盖的阿比烤牛肉三明治。
And we would stuff them in our freezer.
我们会把它们塞进冰箱里。
We would freeze the Arby's roast beef sandwiches, and then we would have them there.
我们会把阿比烤牛肉三明治冷冻起来，然后把它们放在那里。
Buns and all?
包子什么的？
Joel Lovell Buns and all, yeah.
乔尔·洛弗尔面包等等，是的。
And so we would have them there as ready-made snacks whenever we might want one.
因此，只要我们需要，我们就会把它们作为现成的零食放在那儿。
I mean, that's the kind of meat-eating that my family was engaged in.
我的意思是，我的家人就是这样吃肉的。
The other thing was that I had these run-ins with doubting my British identity, like--
另一件事是我对自己的英国身份产生了怀疑，比如——
Oh, really?
哦，真的吗？
Sean Cole Yeah, as though it were slipping away.
肖恩·科尔 是的，好像它正在溜走。
And I would really go nuts at that point.
那时我真的会发疯。
And there was one time it happened at home.
有一次，家里也发生过这样的事。
I was at home and I was like, oh, my god, I have to do something.
我当时在家，心想，天哪，我必须做点什么。
I have to affirm my devotion.
我必须肯定我的奉献精神。
So I think I-- well, I know I opened up the window.
所以我想我——嗯，我知道我打开了窗户。
And I psyched myself to do it.
我鼓起勇气去做这件事。
I was like, oh, man.
我当时想，哦，伙计。
If I don't do this, it won't come back.
如果我不这样做，它就不会回来。
And I opened up the window.
我打开了窗户。
And then I screamed-- this is the middle of the night, or 10:00 at night.
然后我尖叫起来——现在是半夜，或者说晚上 10:00。
I screamed, I love England, and of course in a British accent, outside the window.
我尖叫道，我爱英格兰，当然，在窗外，我还带着英国口音。
And then you felt better?
然后你感觉好多了？
You felt like you had reasserted yourself?
你觉得你重新证明了自己吗？
I felt like I had done something, at least.
至少我觉得我做了一些事情。
For England.
对于英格兰来说。
Sean Cole Yeah.
肖恩·科尔 是的。
I had fortified my Britishness.
我强化了我的英国血统。
I would find myself in these conversations where people were saying, you know, you've never had a McDonald's hamburger?
我会发现自己在这些谈话中，人们说，你知道，你从来没有吃过麦当劳的汉堡吗？
What kind of 18-year-old American has never had a hamburger from McDonald's?
哪个18岁的美国人没吃过麦当劳的汉堡？
Quite a legitimate question, I would add.
我想补充一下，这是一个相当合理的问题。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
And I would say, yeah, I've just never had one.
我会说，是的，我只是从来没有过。
They scare me.
他们吓到我了。
And I would sort of like talk about the ways-- I would make up these stories about how I'd come close a couple of times, how a friend of mine in high school had bought me a Big Mac, and there I was, sitting on the front seat of his car, and I almost ate it, and then couldn't bring myself to do it.
我有点喜欢谈论这些方法——我会编造这些故事，关于我如何有几次接近成功，我的一个高中朋友如何给我买了一个巨无霸，而我就在那里，坐在他汽车的前座上，我差点就吃了它，然后无法让自己这么做。
So yeah, there was all this sort of drama that I lied about.
是的，我撒了谎。
My mom and dad came down to visit for parent's weekend.
我妈妈和爸爸来看望父母周末。
And they were really proud that I was going there, and really excited to come down.
他们对我能去那里感到非常自豪，并且非常兴奋能下来。
And they came down to visit.
他们下来参观。
And really proud because you were the first generation to go to college?
因为你是第一代上大学的人而感到自豪吗？
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass You made it into this Ivy League school.
Ira Glass 你进入了这所常春藤盟校。
It was a big, big deal.
这是一件大事。
Right, exactly.
对，完全正确。
Exactly.
确切地。
And so they drove down from Camillus, which is about between an hour and an hour and a half.
于是他们从卡米卢斯驱车下来，大约需要一个小时到一个半小时。
They came down.
他们下来了。
And in that week leading up to parent's weekend, everybody's talking about their parents coming, and everybody's making reservations at restaurants, where to eat on Saturday night.
在父母周末之前的那一周，每个人都在谈论他们的父母要来，每个人都在餐馆预订周六晚上吃饭的地方。
And everybody's sort of planning on taking their parents to the football game on Saturday during the day.
每个人都计划在周六白天带父母去看足球比赛。
And it suddenly occurred to me-- this real sort of panic set in that, you know, my parents would come down, and we would go to a football game, and my dad would buy a hot dog.
我突然想到了这种真正的恐慌，你知道，我的父母会下来，我们会去看一场足球比赛，我爸爸会买一个热狗。
And somebody across the field would see Mr. Lovell eating a hot dog, and then, of course, the cat would be out of the bag.
田野对面的某个人会看到洛弗尔先生正在吃热狗，然后，当然，秘密就会被泄露。
And so I thought, you know, I've got to make a reservation at a restaurant, at someplace, either A, where nobody else's parents will be, or at a vegetarian restaurant.
所以我想，你知道，我必须在某个地方预订一家餐厅，要么是 A 餐厅，那里没有其他人的父母，要么是一家素食餐厅。
And so what I did was make a reservation at the Moosewood Restaurant, which is in Ithaca.
所以我所做的就是在伊萨卡岛的穆斯伍德餐厅预订房间。
And there's the Moosewood cookbooks that are out.
还有穆斯伍德食谱已经出版了。
Vegetarian cookbooks.
素食食谱。
Joel Lovell Exactly.
乔尔·洛弗尔 没错。
Yeah.
是的。
Mhm.
嗯。
Joel Lovell And it's this nice little vegetarian restaurant in Ithaca, and a slightly famous place.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell） 这是伊萨卡岛的一家不错的小素食餐厅，也是一个稍微有名的地方。
But then we got there, and I remember sitting down at the table in the Moosewood.
但当我们到达那里时，我记得坐在穆斯伍德的桌子旁。
And the bowls are these kind of carved wooden bowls.
碗就是这种雕刻的木碗。
And I mean, everything about it feels like, well, like a vegetarian restaurant.
我的意思是，它的一切感觉就像是一家素食餐厅。
Not just a vegetarian restaurant, but kind of a cartoon of a vegetarian restaurant.
不只是一家素食餐厅，而是一种素食餐厅的漫画。
Exactly.
确切地。
Exactly.
确切地。
And I was looking at my parents across the table, and they were sort of dressed up, and they were excited to be coming down.
我看着桌子对面的父母，他们穿着盛装，很高兴能下来。
And I could tell my dad was sitting there and sort of perusing the menu and thinking, well, you know, maybe this lentil salad will be good, or whatever.
我看得出来我爸爸坐在那里，仔细阅读菜单，心想，好吧，你知道，也许这个扁豆沙拉会很好吃，或者其他什么。
And I could tell he was sitting there thinking, now, geez.
我看得出来他现在坐在那里思考，天啊。
I just drove an hour and a half.
我只开了一个半小时的车。
All I want is a steak, and a baked potato, and a beer.
我想要的只是一份牛排、一个烤土豆和一杯啤酒。
And there I was, bringing them here.
我就在那里，把他们带到这里。
But they were so game about it.
但他们对此非常感兴趣。
They were so sort of willing to go along with it because, for some reason, they thought I really wanted to bring them there.
他们非常愿意同意，因为出于某种原因，他们认为我真的想带他们去那里。
And I just thought, geez, these people, my parents, have really given up a lot for me to come there.
我只是想，天哪，这些人，我的父母，为了我来到那里真的放弃了很多。
I mean financially, they were really stretching themselves, and we were taking out all sorts of loans.
我的意思是在财务上，他们确实在竭尽全力，而我们正在申请各种贷款。
You know, all those things that people do in order to go to college.
你知道，人们为了上大学所做的所有事情。
And they never complained once about doing it.
他们从来没有抱怨过这样做。
And they just wanted to come down and see me there, and feel proud that I was there, and I was sort of hiding them out in this vegetarian restaurant.
他们只是想下来看看我在那里，并为我在那里感到自豪，而我有点把他们藏在这家素食餐厅里。
I felt so bad about it afterwards.
事后我感觉很糟糕。
And they never once complained, and they went home.
他们从来没有抱怨过，然后就回家了。
And sort of imagine them stopping at a Hardee's just outside of Ithaca, and getting a burger as soon as they say goodbye.
想象一下他们在伊萨卡岛郊外的哈迪餐厅停下来，一告别就得到了一个汉堡。
But after that, I just thought, geez, I got to find some way to come clean about this.
但在那之后，我只是想，天哪，我必须找到一些方法来坦白这件事。
I mean, is it OK if your child decides to express himself in an alternate personality for a period of two years?
我的意思是，如果您的孩子决定在两年内以另一种人格表达自己，可以吗？
I think there's-- it's funny.
我认为这很有趣。
I never thought I would say this.
我从没想过我会这么说。
But I think there's nothing wrong with that.
但我认为这并没有什么问题。
I never thought I would say it because I wish that I hadn't done it, now, but I don't know.
我从没想过我会这么说，因为我希望我现在没有这么做，但我不知道。
Maybe I learned something from doing it.
也许我从这样做中学到了一些东西。
I mean, I think that that is par for the course.
我的意思是，我认为这是理所当然的。
Now, I think that's part of growing up.
现在，我认为这是成长的一部分。
But I think it was probably necessary for me at that time in my life.
但我认为这对当时的我来说可能是必要的。
Yeah.
是的。
And there was some bridge that this allowed me to cross.
有一座桥可以让我跨越。
Joel Lovell and Sean Cole.
乔尔·洛弗尔和肖恩·科尔。
Joel Lovell is the executive editor of a podcast company called Pineapple Street Media.
乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 是一家名为 Pineapple Street Media 的播客公司的执行编辑。
Indeed, he does.
确实如此。
He's one of the producers of our program.
他是我们节目的制作人之一。
Act Two: Conning The Con Men Ira Glass Act Two, Conning the Con Men.
第二幕：欺骗骗子 艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕：欺骗骗子。
The American legal system, for the most part, does not uphold the principle of eye for an eye.
美国的法律体系在很大程度上并不坚持以眼还眼的原则。
If you steal somebody's car, the judge does not steal your car in return.
如果您偷了某人的汽车，法官不会偷您的汽车作为回报。
If they catch you selling weed, they do not sell weed to you as your punishment.
如果他们抓到你卖大麻，他们不会卖大麻给你作为对你的惩罚。
But if you're in the business of running scams, authorities catch you by running a scam on you.
但如果您从事诈骗活动，当局就会通过对您进行诈骗来抓捕您。
This is the story of a con man who made millions by fooling people over the phone, until he was the one who got fooled.
这是一个骗子的故事，他通过电话愚弄别人，赚了数百万美元，直到他自己成为被愚弄的人。
Nancy Updike reports.
南希·厄普代克报道。
The guy's name is David Diamond.
这个人的名字叫大卫·戴蒙德。
That's his actual name.
这是他的真名。
He was one of the most successful salesmen in one of the longest-running telemarketing scams in Los Angeles history.
他是洛杉矶历史上持续时间最长的电话营销骗局之一中最成功的推销员之一。
David Diamond was a salesman at a boiler room.
大卫·戴蒙德 (David Diamond) 是一家锅炉房的推销员。
This is Dale Sekovich.
这是戴尔·塞科维奇。
He's been a Federal Trade Commission investigator for 29 years.
他担任联邦贸易委员会调查员已有 29 年。
He's the one who busted Diamond.
他就是打败戴蒙德的人。
He was living in a very expensive home up in the hills, in Woodland Hills.
他住在伍德兰希尔斯山上一栋非常昂贵的房子里。
He drove a custom Porsche Carrera that he had shipped over here by airplane from Germany, from the factory.
他开着一辆定制的保时捷卡雷拉，是他从德国工厂乘飞机运到这里的。
They lived very high on the hog.
他们生活得很奢侈。
David Diamond was just one of a whole bunch of guys making money, hand over fist, in an operation in Southern California that was basically running the same scam over and over, under different names, for seven years.
大卫·戴蒙德（David Diamond）只是在南加州的一家公司中大手大脚地赚钱的人之一，这家公司在七年里以不同的名义一遍又一遍地进行着同样的骗局。
It was an investment scheme.
这是一个投资计划。
Give us your money, and we'll put it into this great 900-number business, or this online shopping network, or this hot new internet service provider.
把您的钱交给我们，我们将把它投入到这个伟大的 900 电话业务、这个在线购物网络、或者这个热门的新兴互联网服务提供商中。
Needless to say, no one ever made a dime, except the people running the scam, who cleared $40 million.
不用说，除了骗局的实施者，没有人赚到一分钱，他们骗取了 4000 万美元。
Since Diamond was one of the operation's top salesmen, he made $2 million in commissions in just four years on the job.
由于戴蒙德是该公司的顶级推销员之一，他在工作的短短四年内就赚取了 200 万美元的佣金。
He got 30% of whatever he talked a person into investing.
他说服别人投资的一切，他都得到了 30%。
That means he personally conned people out of more than $6 million.
这意味着他个人骗取了超过 600 万美元。
The FTC caught Diamond and the others in the operation essentially by conning the con men.
联邦贸易委员会本质上是通过欺骗骗子来抓获戴蒙德和其他人的。
They had volunteers pose as dupes and record their phone calls.
他们让志愿者装扮成受骗者并记录他们的电话。
Because the FTC brought a case against the operation Diamond worked in, some of those recordings are now part of the public record.
由于联邦贸易委员会对戴蒙德参与的行动提起诉讼，其中一些录音现已成为公共记录的一部分。
I got Dale Sekovich to listen to the tapes with me, and talk about David Diamond and the FBI volunteer who caught him.
我让戴尔·塞科维奇和我一起听录音，并谈论大卫·戴蒙德和抓获他的联邦调查局志愿者。
The woman on the tape-- I can't tell you her real name, but she uses the alias of Marge.
录音带上的那个女人——我不能告诉你她的真名，但她用的化名是玛吉。
She assumed the identity of a person who is named Marge.
她假扮了一个名叫玛吉的人。
Marge was a real person who we in law enforcement, and who people in the telemarketing business refer to, as a mooch.
玛吉是一个真实的人，我们执法部门的人以及电话营销行业的人都将她称为“mooch”。
A mooch is someone who will essentially buy anything from anybody who calls her on the telephone.
mooch 基本上会从任何打电话给她的人那里购买任何东西。
And in fact, she did, over a number of years.
事实上，多年来她确实做到了。
She spent hundreds of thousands of dollars--
她花了数十万美元——
The real Marge.
真正的玛吉.
Dale Sekovich The real Marge spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on bogus prize promotions, investments, gold coins, you name it.
戴尔·塞科维奇 (Dale Sekovich) 真正的玛吉在虚假的奖品促销、投资、金币等方面花费了数十万美元。
So the FBI went to Marge and said, we really think that we need to take your telephone number away from you, because it's being used to ruin your life.
所以联邦调查局找到玛吉说，我们真的认为我们需要拿走你的电话号码，因为它被用来毁了你的生活。
So once Marge agreed to that, her telephone number was installed in the home of an FBI volunteer.
因此，一旦玛吉同意，她的电话号码就被安装在一名联邦调查局志愿者的家中。
Every time that phone line rang-- the Marge line-- that volunteer would pick up that telephone and answer it, and pose as Marge.
每当电话线——玛吉线——响起时，志愿者就会拿起电话接听，并冒充玛吉。
It's kind of warm here.
这里有点温暖。
David Diamond Yeah?
大卫戴蒙德 是吗？
I sent you off a video, and a package.
我给你发了一段视频和一个包裹。
Yes, I have it.
是的，我有。
David Diamond OK.
大卫·戴蒙德 好的。
The video is with regard to Mark Ericson.
该视频是关于马克·埃里克森的。
Mark Ericson is the person who is heading up the program, and he is very successful in taking upstart companies and making them successful.
马克·埃里克森（Mark Ericson）是该计划的负责人，他非常成功地带领新兴公司并使它们取得成功。
You've probably heard of Hard Copy?
您可能听说过硬拷贝？
He's an original producer of Hard Copy.
他是《Hard Copy》的原创制作人。
I have heard of it, yes.
我听说过，是的。
David Diamond OK.
大卫·戴蒙德 好的。
You're smiling as you listen to this.
当你听到这句话的时候你正在微笑。
What are you smiling about?
你在笑什么？
Well, I'm smiling because it's been a while since I've heard Marge, and she sounds so old, and so fragile, and such an easy mark, when in fact, you know, she's this sharp FBI informant.
好吧，我笑了，因为我已经有一段时间没有听到玛吉的声音了，她听起来那么老，那么脆弱，而且很容易被标记，而事实上，你知道，她是一位敏锐的联邦调查局线人。
She doesn't look as old as she sounds, trust me.
她看起来并不像听起来那么老，相信我。
So that's one aspect of it.
这是一方面。
The other aspect is this whole Mark Ericson thing.
另一方面是马克·埃里克森的整个事情。
Yeah.
是的。
Is he a real person?
他是一个真实的人吗？
Dale Sekovich Mark Ericson is a real person.
戴尔·塞科维奇·马克·埃里克森是一个真实的人。
He was named in our lawsuit.
他在我们的诉讼中被点名。
And was he an original producer of Hard Copy?
他是硬拷贝的原创制作人吗？
No. He was a segment producer and on-the-air reporter for Hard Copy for a brief period of time.
没有。他曾短暂担任《Hard Copy》的片段制作人和广播记者。
And I mean, is this sort of typical of the cons in the tapes that you've heard, that they'll try to associate what they're selling with a legitimate business, or organization, or television show?
我的意思是，这是你听过的磁带中典型的缺点吗？他们会试图将他们销售的东西与合法的企业、组织或电视节目联系起来？
Something that people have heard of?
人们听说过什么？
Exactly.
确切地。
They want to make this-- yeah, something people can relate to.
他们想让这个——是的，成为人们能够产生共鸣的东西。
Here's the thing.
事情是这样的。
You have to invest everything you've got, or do nothing at all.
你必须投入你拥有的一切，或者什么都不做。
And I'll say that again.
我再说一遍。
You should invest everything you have.
你应该投资你拥有的一切。
You should transfer all of your investments into this program, or do nothing.
您应该将所有投资转移到该计划中，或者什么都不做。
It doesn't make sense to do just a little bit.
只做一点点是没有意义的。
You should think about doing $1 million in this program.
您应该考虑在这个计划中投入 100 万美元。
Oh.
哦。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That's a lot of money.
那是很多钱。
You need to liquidate every nickel you've got.
你需要清算你拥有的每一分钱。
You either want to be in this situation-- you either want to be in this situation wholeheartedly, and upgrade your investments, or you don't.
你要么想处于这种情况——你要么想全心全意地处于这种情况，并升级你的投资，要么你不想。
My suggestion to you is just do the whole thing.
我给你的建议是把事情全部做好。
Well, I would never liquidate everything I have.
好吧，我永远不会清算我所拥有的一切。
My question is, why not?
我的问题是，为什么不呢？
Marge Because there's always gambles in anything like this.
玛吉：因为这种事总有赌博的成分。
Anything like what?
有什么类似的吗？
Marge Well, any investment like this.
玛吉 嗯，任何这样的投资。
Well, anything you invest in, there's always a gamble.
嗯，无论你投资什么，都意味着赌博。
Now I want to ask you.
现在我想问你。
You told me once that you thought he sounded nervous on this tape.
你曾经告诉我，你认为他在这盘磁带上听起来很紧张。
And in this part where she's saying, you know, an investment like this, and he's sort of questioning her, well what do you mean like this.
在这一部分，她说，你知道，这样的投资，而他有点质疑她，你这样说是什么意思。
I wonder, do you have any sense that he is suspicious that she might know what he's up to?
我想知道，你是否感觉到他怀疑她可能知道他在做什么？
I mean, do they know that volunteers are out there trying to trap them, posing as dupes?
我的意思是，他们知道志愿者冒充骗子试图诱骗他们吗？
No. Since we talked about this tape last, I actually sort of had a revelation that came to me as to why.
不。自从我们上次讨论过这盘磁带以来，我实际上得到了一个关于原因的启示。
I listened to over 40 individual tapes of David Diamond-- conversations with Marge, and conversations with others-- over the course of about a year.
在大约一年的时间里，我听了 40 多盘大卫·戴蒙德的录音带——与玛吉的谈话，以及与其他人的谈话。
And one of the things, when you've listened to all of them, you find that David in the earlier part of that year was much more kind of sweet, and cautious, and trying to bond with these women, and patient.
其中一件事是，当你听完她们所有人的讲话时，你会发现大卫在那一年的早些时候更加甜蜜、谨慎，并试图与这些女性建立联系，并且很有耐心。
And sometimes would spend an hour on the phone with them-- the tape would be an hour long.
有时会花一个小时和他们通电话——录音带长达一个小时。
But this tape was made towards the very end of that year period, probably within a week or two of our raid.
但这盘磁带是在那年年底制作的，可能是在我们突袭后的一两周内。
Having gone in on the raid, and searched David Diamond's desk that day, I came to realize that David Diamond was starting to question whether he wanted to do this anymore.
那天参加突袭并搜查了大卫·戴蒙德的办公桌后，我开始意识到大卫·戴蒙德开始质疑他是否还想再这样做。
He was starting to really have some concerns about--
他开始真正担心——
Moral concerns?
道德问题？
Dale Sekovich Moral concerns about what they were doing.
戴尔·塞科维奇对他们的所作所为感到道德担忧。
And I believe that in these last couple of weeks, and it's kind of shown in this tape, he was becoming a little bit desperate.
我相信在过去的几周里，正如这盘录像带所显示的那样，他变得有点绝望。
He wanted to make a couple more big hits, and he just couldn't figure out why this woman wasn't going to write him a check.
他想再做几件大事，但他就是不明白为什么这个女人不给他写一张支票。
So he started getting frustrated, and it comes out in his voice.
所以他开始感到沮丧，这从他的声音中表现出来。
What evidence did you see that he was starting to have moral qualms about what he was doing?
你看到什么证据表明他开始对自己的行为产生道德疑虑？
David had become a born again.
大卫已经重生了。
There were religious tracts all over his office, and posters on his wall.
他的办公室里到处都是宗教小册子，墙上贴着海报。
Just recently.
刚刚。
Dale Sekovich I don't know exactly what the time frame was.
Dale Sekovich 我不知道确切的时间范围。
We do know that he had given a lot of the money that he had made to his church.
我们确实知道他把他赚来的很多钱都捐给了他的教会。
And we believe that a lot of that was sort of a self-imposed penance, that he could justify what he was doing because he was giving, he was tithing this money, that he was taking from these poor victims, into his church.
我们相信，其中很多都是自我强加的忏悔，他可以证明自己所做的事情是合理的，因为他正在奉献，他正在将这些钱从这些可怜的受害者那里拿走，捐给他的教堂。
If $30,000 is what you made on every $5,000, and you put $50,000 in this program, that's $300,000 return.
如果您每 5,000 美元赚取 30,000 美元，并且您在该计划中投入 50,000 美元，那么回报就是 300,000 美元。
That's why I'm telling you, you need to do $1 million in this program.
这就是为什么我告诉你，你需要在这个项目上投入 100 万美元。
Mhm.
嗯。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I would never put that much in any program.
我永远不会在任何程序中投入那么多。
Do you have an obligation to yourself, as an investor, to make the most amount of money possible?
作为投资者，您有义务赚到尽可能多的钱吗？
Well, you know, at my age, it's really not that-- what do I want to say?
嗯，你知道，在我这个年纪，这真的不是——我想说什么呢？
I have enough to live on for the rest of my life.
我的余生已经足够生活了。
I understand.
我明白。
But is it still in your best interest to make the most amount of money possible, if you could finally do it as safely as possible?
但是，如果您最终能够尽可能安全地做到这一点，那么赚尽可能多的钱仍然符合您的最佳利益吗？
It's my obligation not to lose what I have.
我有义务不失去我所拥有的。
Correct, but it's also your obligation to keep your money working for you--
正确，但让你的钱为你工作也是你的义务——
Right, right.
对，对。
David Diamond --because otherwise, what's the point?
大卫·戴蒙德——否则的话，还有什么意义呢？
When I heard this part of the tape, even though I knew that this particular woman was not getting conned, that she was, in fact, conning him, and trapping him, I started to get so angry because I was thinking, you know, he is really trying to take all of this old woman's money-- all of it.
当我听到录音带的这一部分时，尽管我知道这个女人并没有被骗，她实际上是在欺骗他，让他陷入困境，但我开始非常生气，因为我在想，你知道，他真的想拿走这个老女人的所有钱——所有的钱。
She's saying, I have enough to live on.
她说，我的生活已经足够了。
He's saying, you have an obligation to make more.
他说，你有义务赚更多钱。
Do you ever hear things like that and just get angry?
你是否曾听到这样的话而感到愤怒？
Even though you know that she's sort of in on the con, on the joke?
即使你知道她有点参与骗局、开玩笑？
Every time I hear these pitches, I'm outraged because I am the person that spoke to the people who really did send David Diamond tens of thousands of dollars that consisted of their life savings, and now don't have any money to even buy groceries.
每当我听到这些推销词时，我都会感到愤怒，因为我是那些真正给大卫戴蒙德寄了数万美元的人的人，这些钱是他们毕生的积蓄，但现在却连买杂货的钱都没有了。
I've interviewed them.
我采访过他们。
I've seen them sob.
我见过他们哭泣。
Yeah, it makes me very angry.
是的，这让我很生气。
We have public companies that want to take you public.
我们有一些上市公司希望让您上市。
So if you've got a public company that's passed judgment on it, it's not even me talking anymore.
因此，如果你有一家上市公司对此做出了判断，那我就不再说话了。
If Mark Ericson wants to do business with you, it's not even me talking anymore.
如果马克·埃里克森想和你做生意，我就不再说话了。
You have the ability to make an absolute fortune.
你有能力赚到绝对的财富。
And it doesn't make sense not to have every nickel you've got in this particular program.
如果你不把所有的钱都花在这个特定的项目上，那是没有意义的。
That's why I said it's the emergency investment situation, and you should do at least 50-100, 150 units, while you have the opportunity.
所以我说现在是紧急投资情况，你至少应该做50-100、150个单位，趁着有机会。
Mhm.
嗯。
Well, how much are you investing in this?
嗯，你在这方面投资了多少？
I'm not investing anything in this.
我不会在这方面投资任何东西。
My investment comes in the time that I put with my client.
我的投资来自于我与客户相处的时间。
Yes.
是的。
David Diamond Right.
大卫·戴蒙德 对。
And the fact that when they make money, they reinvest with me.
事实上，当他们赚钱时，他们会和我一起进行再投资。
Right.
正确的。
David Diamond That's the whole point.
大卫·戴蒙德 这就是重点。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Nancy Updike You were smiling again when she said, you know, how much are you investing?
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）当她说“你知道，你投资了多少钱”时，你又笑了。
I mean, is she just screwing around with him?
我的意思是，她只是和他搞鬼吗？
Of course.
当然。
She's playing with him.
她正在和他玩。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, she's trained to ask him those kinds of questions so that he responds with a misrepresentation.
我的意思是，她受过训练来问他这类问题，这样他就会做出错误的回答。
But that doesn't sound like it's part of the script.
但这听起来不像是剧本的一部分。
That just sounds like her being mean, in sort of a delicious way.
这听起来像是她很刻薄，但以一种有趣的方式。
Well, no. I think what we were trying to do, or her handler was trying to do, was to get him to say, oh, yeah.
嗯，不。我认为我们想要做的，或者她的经纪人想要做的，就是让他说，哦，是的。
I'm in it, and I've got my mother, and my grandmother in it, and I'm putting away money for my child's education with it, because then we could show later that he hadn't.
我在其中，我的母亲和祖母也在其中，我用它为我孩子的教育存钱，因为这样我们以后就可以证明他没有。
Did you ever talk to Marge about what it's like to do this?
你有没有跟玛吉谈过做这件事是什么感觉？
I mean, do they ever sort of have fun?
我的意思是，他们玩得开心吗？
Just thinking, I'm just turning the tables on this guy.
只是想，我只是想扭转这个家伙的局面。
He has no idea.
他不知道。
I wish I could answer the question.
我希望我能回答这个问题。
I've never spoken to them.
我从来没有和他们说过话。
I'd love to get the answer to that, myself.
我很想亲自得到这个问题的答案。
I'd like to ask that question, myself.
我想亲自问这个问题。
I think they get a lot of personal satisfaction, though.
不过，我认为他们得到了很多个人满足。
How often do you get a chance to catch a bad guy as just a regular civilian?
作为一个普通平民，你有多少机会抓到一个坏人？
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
You know, I do it, too.
你知道，我也这样做。
I tape people using an alias in cases that I work.
在我工作的情况下，我会使用化名对人们进行录音。
And is it fun?
有趣吗？
Dale Sekovich I love it.
戴尔·塞科维奇 我喜欢它。
I love to get these people to tell me stuff.
我喜欢让这些人告诉我一些事情。
You know, it's like acting.
你知道，这就像演戏。
There's a rush.
有一个匆忙。
The rush of a con, the pleasure of it, is knowing that you have more power than the person you're conning.
骗局的快感和乐趣在于知道你比你所骗的人更有权力。
You know more.
你知道更多。
You know that it's a con.
你知道这是一个骗局。
And let's face it, given the choice between being the mark and being the con man, nobody's going to choose to be the mark.
让我们面对现实吧，如果要在成为目标和成为骗子之间做出选择，没有人会选择成为目标。
But the problem is, the more confidence you have in your own con, the more easily you become a mark yourself.
但问题是，你对自己的骗局越有信心，你就越容易成为别人的标记。
Con men get taken by other con men all the time.
骗子总是被其他骗子骗走。
There just seems to be something about the particular arrogance of always being on the knowing side of the con that makes for a really, really good mark.
似乎总是站在骗局知情的一边，这种特殊的傲慢态度使得我们获得了非常非常好的分数。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our program.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制作人之一。
In the years since we first broadcast this episode-- today's show is a rerun-- Dale Sekovich, the FTC investigator who busted David Diamond, has died.
自从我们第一次播出这一集以来（今天的节目是重播），逮捕大卫·戴蒙德的联邦贸易委员会调查员戴尔·塞科维奇已经去世了。
Coming up, a child tries to fix his own family by harnessing the most powerful force that exists anywhere.
接下来，一个孩子试图利用任何地方存在的最强大的力量来修复自己的家庭。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on the program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周的节目我们都会选择一个主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Hoaxing Yourself, stories of people who are fooling themselves.
今天的节目《欺骗自己》讲述了人们欺骗自己的故事。
Sometimes that is a side effect of trying to fool others.
有时这是试图愚弄他人的副作用。
Sometimes they just don't know better, and pin their hopes and beliefs on something that is simply not true at all.
有时他们只是不知道更多，并将他们的希望和信念寄托在根本不真实的事情上。
We've arrived at Act Three of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, Oedipus Hex.
第三幕，俄狄浦斯十六进制。
Shalom Auslander tells a story which happened to him when he was a boy in one of those ultra Orthodox Jewish religious schools called yeshivas.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德（Shalom Auslander）讲述了一个发生在他身上的故事，当时他还是个男孩，就读于一所名为犹太学院（yeshivas）的极端正统犹太宗教学校。
A warning to listeners that, although this story is about a little boy, in the story, the dad is not so nice to his kids, which might not be a thing that little kids will enjoy hearing at all.
警告听众，虽然这个故事是关于一个小男孩的，但故事中的爸爸对他的孩子并不那么好，这可能不是小孩子喜欢听的事情。
So take that under advisement.
所以请接受建议。
Here's Shalom.
这是沙洛姆。
Rabbi Breyer walked into our third-grade classroom, hung up his long black coat, took off his big black hat, and handed each student a small black booklet entitled, The Guide to Blessings.
布雷耶拉比走进我们三年级的教室，挂起他的黑色长外套，摘下他的大黑帽子，递给每个学生一本名为《祝福指南》的黑色小册子。
We had one week, he told us, to prepare for the annual Yeshiva of Spring Valley Blessing Bee.
他告诉我们，我们有一周的时间为一年一度的春谷祝福蜂会做准备。
My heart leaped.
我的心狂跳起来。
This was just what my mother needed.
这正是我母亲所需要的。
The Blessing Bee would make her forget all the troubles of our home.
祝福蜂会让她忘记我们家的所有烦恼。
To have a son who's a talmid chuchum, a wise student, that was the ultimate.
能有一个聪明的儿子，一个聪明的学生，那就太好了。
Her brother was a respected rabbi.
她的兄弟是一位受人尊敬的拉比。
And if her husband couldn't be one, well, maybe her son could be.
如果她的丈夫不能成为其中之一，那么，也许她的儿子可以。
The Guide to Blessings was a 70-page-long listing of hundreds of different foods-- soups, breads, fish, desserts.
《祝福指南》长达 70 页，列出了数百种不同的食物——汤、面包、鱼、甜点。
I flipped through it, slowly realizing the size of the challenge that lay ahead.
我翻阅了它，慢慢意识到面前的挑战有多大。
Falafel?
沙拉三明治？
Herring?
鲱鱼？
Eggplant parmigiana?
茄子帕尔马干酪？
I had my work cut out for me.
我的工作已经完成。
Friday afternoons, the yeshiva closed early so that we could all rush home to help our parents prepare for Shabbos-- the Sabbath.
周五下午，犹太学院提前关门，这样我们就可以赶回家帮助父母为安息日做准备。
Rabbi Breyer told us that the Sages tell us that the Torah tells us that the preparation for Shabbos is equal to the importance of Shabbos itself.
布雷耶拉比告诉我们，圣贤们告诉我们，《托拉》告诉我们，为安息日做准备与安息日本身的重要性是同等重要的。
Most of my preparations involved searching the house for kosher wine and pouring it down the toilet.
我的大部分准备工作就是在房子里寻找犹太酒，然后把它倒进厕所。
It was a thankless job I admitted to nobody.
这是一项吃力不讨好的工作，我没有向任何人承认。
My father's frustrated rage at not having his Manischewitz Concord grape was fearsome, but it was far better than his drunken rage if he did have it.
我父亲因没有得到他的马尼舍维茨康科德葡萄而感到沮丧的愤怒是可怕的，但如果他确实拥有了它，这比他醉酒时的愤怒要好得多。
I'd search the pantry.
我会搜查食品储藏室。
I'd search the garage.
我会搜查车库。
I'd search my father's closet.
我会搜查我父亲的衣柜。
But I was only eight years old, and there was always a bottle of Kedem hiding somewhere I just hadn't thought to check.
但我当时只有八岁，总有一瓶 Kedem 藏在某个地方，我只是没想去检查一下。
That night, my father, drunk on a bottle of blush Chablis that got away, grabbed my older brother by his shirt collar and dragged him away from the Shabbos table.
那天晚上，我父亲喝了一瓶腮红夏布利酒，喝得醉了，然后抓住了我哥哥的衬衫领子，把他从沙博斯桌子上拖走了。
He dragged him all the way down the stairs to our bedroom in the basement and slammed the door shut.
他把他一路拖下楼梯，来到我们位于地下室的卧室，然后砰地关上了门。
Even the silverware jumped.
就连银器也跳了起来。
Who wants the last matzoh ball, my mother asked?
我妈妈问，谁想要最后一个无酵饼球？
I made extra.
我额外做了。
When my brother returned to the table, his nose was bleeding.
当我哥哥回到餐桌时，他的鼻子在流血。
My mother brought him a can of frozen orange juice to hold against the back of his neck, which was supposed to somehow stop the bleeding.
我母亲给他带来了一罐冷冻橙汁，放在他的颈后，据说可以止血。
Rabbi Breyer taught us that it is prohibited to defrost orange juice on Shabbos because changing food from solid to liquid is considered cooking, and cooking is considered working.
布雷耶拉比告诉我们，在安息日禁止解冻橙汁，因为将食物从固体变成液体被认为是烹饪，而烹饪被认为是有效的。
And even God refrained from working on Shabbos.
甚至上帝也没有在沙博斯上做工。
There are 39 different categories of work that are prohibited on Shabbos.
Shabbos 禁止从事 39 种不同类别的工作。
That's also why you're not allowed to switch on lights on Shabbos.
这也是为什么你不可以在 Shabbos 开灯的原因。
The electricity causes the filament to glow, which is considered burning, which is considered working.
电使灯丝发光，这被认为是燃烧，这被认为是工作。
Category number two.
类别第二。
My father came back to the table and drunkenly sang a few Shabbos songs, fudging the words and banging heavily on the table with his fist.
我父亲回到桌边，醉醺醺地唱了几首沙博斯歌曲，捏造歌词，用拳头重重地敲击桌子。
I sat hunched over, absentmindedly drawing circles on the condensation that had formed on the silver water pitcher.
我弓着背坐着，心不在焉地在银色水罐上凝结的水珠上画圈。
My father slapped my hand.
父亲拍了拍我的手。
Shabbos, he shouted.
沙博斯，他喊道。
Writing, category number five.
写作，第五类。
Eventually, he stumbled off to his bedroom and fell asleep, snoring loudly.
最后，他跌跌撞撞地回到自己的卧室，呼噜呼噜地睡着了。
We sat in the dining room and picked glumly at our food.
我们坐在餐厅里，闷闷不乐地吃着食物。
The following Monday morning, as we all sat studying from our blessing books, there was a knock on Rabbi Breyer's classroom door, and Rabbi Greenbaum, the yeshiva principal, solemnly entered.
接下来的周一早上，当我们大家坐在一起学习祝福书时，布雷耶拉比的教室门被敲响了，犹太学校校长格林鲍姆拉比庄严地走了进来。
We all rose.
我们都站了起来。
The two rabbis conferred quietly for a moment before signaling us all to be seated.
两位拉比安静地商议了一会儿，然后示意我们大家坐下。
After a few thoughtful strokes of his long black beard, Rabbi Greenbaum sighed deeply and informed us that the night before, our classmate Avrumi Gruenembaum's father had suffered a heart attack and died.
格林鲍姆拉比若有所思地抚摸着长长的黑胡子，深深地叹了口气，告诉我们，前一天晚上，我们同学阿夫鲁米·格鲁内鲍姆的父亲因心脏病发作去世了。
Some kids have all the luck.
有些孩子拥有所有的运气。
Blessed is the one true judge, said Rabbi Breyer, nodding his head.
一位真正的法官是有福的，布雷耶拉比点点头说道。
Blessed is the one true judge, we all answered, nodding our heads.
一位真正的法官是有福的，我们大家都点头回答。
I wondered what Mr. Gruenembaum might have done to deserve death.
我想知道格鲁内鲍姆先生可能做了什么而该死。
Did he bow down to idols?
他有向偶像下拜吗？
Did he walk four steps without his yarmulke on?
他没戴圆顶小帽就走了四步吗？
Whatever it was, it must have been pretty bad.
不管是什么，情况一定很糟糕。
As Rabbi Greenbaum turned to leave, he paused.
当格林鲍姆拉比转身离开时，他停了下来。
And with a stern shake of his finger, reminded us all that the Sages tell us that the Torah tells us that until the age of 13, all of a boy's sins are ascribed to his father.
他严厉地摇动手指，提醒我们所有人，圣贤告诉我们，托拉告诉我们，直到 13 岁，男孩的所有罪孽都归咎于他的父亲。
I turned to look at Avrumi's empty chair.
我转身看着阿夫鲁米的空椅子。
Avrumi was a chubby kid with heavy orthodontia and foul breath.
阿夫鲁米是一个胖乎乎的孩子，牙齿矫正很严重，而且口臭。
But a sudden respect for him grew inside me.
但我内心突然升起了对他的敬意。
I wondered what he might have done to cause his father's death.
我想知道他可能做了什么导致了他父亲的死亡。
Whatever it was, it must have been pretty bad.
不管是什么，情况一定很糟糕。
Scowling fiercely, Rabbi Greenbaum advised each and every one of us to pray to Hashem, the Holy One, blessed be he, for forgiveness, so that he wouldn't kill our fathers, too.
格林鲍姆拉比皱起眉头，建议我们每个人都向神圣的哈希姆祈祷，祈求他的宽恕，以免他也杀死我们的父亲。
My heart leaped.
我的心狂跳起来。
Blessed is Hashem, he said.
他说，哈希姆是有福的。
Blessed is Hashem, we answered.
我们回答说，哈希姆是有福的。
Blessed is Hashem was right.
哈希姆是对的。
All of a sudden, I had two ways I could save my family.
突然之间，我有了两种方法可以拯救我的家人。
I could win the Blessing Bee for my mother, or I could sin so much Hashem would have to kill my father.
我可以为我的母亲赢得祝福蜂，或者我可能犯下太多罪，哈希姆不得不杀死我的父亲。
Courageous Avrumi Gruenembaum.
勇敢的阿夫鲁米·格伦鲍姆。
Maybe one Shabbos night, he had switched on a light.
也许某个沙博斯夜晚，他打开了一盏灯。
Maybe he drank milk after eating meat.
也许他吃完肉后喝了牛奶。
Maybe he touched himself.
也许是他触碰了自己。
That night, just before bed, I ate a drumstick, washed it down with some milk, touched myself, and flicked the bedroom light on and off.
那天晚上，就在睡觉前，我吃了一只鸡腿，用牛奶冲了下去，摸了摸自己，然后打开和关闭了卧室的灯。
Break those lights and I'll break your hands, my father shouted.
打碎那些灯，我就打断你的手，我父亲喊道。
It was going to be a busy week.
这将是忙碌的一周。
The Blessing Bee worked the same way as a spelling bee.
祝福蜂的工作方式与拼字比赛相同。
There are six basic blessings on food-- hamotzei, the blessing for bread; mezonos, the blessing for wheat; hagofen, the blessing for wine or grape juice; ha-eitz, the blessing for things that grow from trees; ho-adamah, the blessing for things that grow from the Earth; and shehakol, the blessing for everything else.
对食物有六种基本的祝福——hamotzei，对面包的祝福； mezonos，对小麦的祝福； hagofen，对葡萄酒或葡萄汁的祝福； ha-eitz，对树上生长的事物的祝福； ho-adamah，对地球上生长的事物的祝福；和shehakol，对其他一切的祝福。
Bagel?
百吉饼？
Hamotzei.
哈莫茨伊。
Oatmeal?
麦片？
Mezonos.
梅佐诺斯。
Gefilte fish?
鱼丸？
Shehakol, the blessing for everything else.
Shehakol，其他一切的祝福。
But that was the easy part.
但这是最容易的部分。
Things became much more complicated when you started combining foods.
当你开始混合食物时，事情变得更加复杂。
Some foods are superior to other foods, and in combination with subordinate foods, the superior food, gets the blessing.
有些食物比其他食物更优越，与下级食物相配，上级食物会得到祝福。
To make matters worse, some blessings are superior to other blessings, and you had to know which blessing to recite first.
更糟糕的是，有些加持比其他加持更优越，你必须知道先念哪一个加持。
This is where they separated the men from the goys.
这是他们将男人与非犹太人分开的地方。
Spaghetti and meatballs?
意大利面和肉丸？
Mezonos, the wheat blessing, then shehakol, the everything else blessing.
Mezonos，小麦的祝福，然后是 shehakol，其他一切的祝福。
Cereal with milk?
麦片加牛奶？
Shehakol for the milk, then mezonos for the wheat in the cereal.
Shehakol 用来制作牛奶，然后 mezonos 用来制作谷物中的小麦。
Twix, the chocolate candy with the cookie crunch?
Twix，带有饼干脆片的巧克力糖？
Trick question.
诡计问题。
Twix isn't kosher.
Twix 不符合犹太教规。
I spent the next week sinning and blessing, and blessing and sinning, alternately praising God and then defying him, as much as one eight-year-old possibly could.
接下来的一周，我一边犯罪一边祝福，一边祝福一边犯罪，交替地赞美上帝，然后反抗他，就像一个八岁孩子所能做到的那样。
Monday morning, I stuffed myself.
周一早上，我吃饱了。
I had a bowl of fruity Pebbles-- mezonos-- a slice of toast-- hamotzei-- a glass of juice-- shehakol-- half an apple-- ha-eitz-- and a couple of old French fries I found at the bottom of the fridge-- ho-adamah.
我吃了一碗果味鹅卵石——mezonos——一片吐司——hamotzei——一杯果汁——shehakol——半个苹果——ha-eitz——还有我在冰箱底部找到的几条老炸薯条——ho-adamah。
One meal, five blessings.
一餐五福。
Tuesday, I touched myself.
周二，我触摸了自己。
I also partook of bread without first ceremoniously washing my hands.
我也没有先郑重地洗手就吃了面包。
And that evening, before going to sleep, I sat on the edge of my bed and carefully recited [BLEEP], [BLEEP], and ass a dozen times each.
那天晚上，睡觉前，我坐在床边仔细地念着【BLEEP】、【BLEEP】、屁股各十几遍。
My father banged angrily on my bedroom door.
父亲生气地敲着我卧室的门。
Lights out, he barked.
灯灭了，他吼道。
I smiled.
我笑了。
For you and me both, pal.
为了你和我，朋友。
Wednesday, I stole $5 from my mother, and didn't recite any blessings at all on the bag full of candy that I bought with it-- a Charleston Chew, which is traif to begin with, and a Chunky, which would have been a shehakol if I weren't trying to kill my father.
星期三，我从妈妈那里偷了 5 美元，而且根本没有对我买的装满糖果的袋子念诵任何祝福——一颗 Charleston Chew，本来就是 traif，还有一颗 Chunky，如果我不是想杀死我的父亲的话，它本来就是 shehakol。
A Chunky with raisins?
厚实的葡萄干？
Shehakol, then ha-eitz.
Shehakol，然后是 ha-eitz。
Thursday, I didn't wear tzitzis.
星期四，我没有穿 tzitzis 衣服。
Rabbi Breyer noticed that the strings weren't dangling from my sides, and grabbed me by the ear and pulled me to the front of the class.
布雷耶拉比注意到绳子没有从我身边晃来晃去，于是抓住我的耳朵，把我拉到班级的前面。
Speak to the children of Israel, he quoted loudly from the Torah, as he spanked me hard on my bottom, and tell them to make tzitzis on the corners of their garments.
他一边用力打我的屁股，一边大声引用《托拉》中的《托拉》，对以色列的孩子们说话，并告诉他们在衣角上做 tzitzis。
That afternoon, after not respecting my elders by taking out the garbage like my mother had told me to, I touched myself and silently begged God to, just this once, credit those sins to Rabbi Breyer's account.
那天下午，在没有尊重长辈，按照母亲的吩咐倒垃圾后，我摸着自己，默默地祈求上帝，就这一次，将这些罪孽记在布雷耶拉比的账上。
Later, I defiled a prayer book by carrying it into the bathroom.
后来，我把一本祈祷书带进浴室，弄脏了它。
The Blessing Bee was the following morning and I could barely sleep.
第二天早上，“祝福蜂”活动发生了，我几乎无法入睡。
Lentil soup?
扁豆汤？
Mezonos.
梅佐诺斯。
Potato knish?
土豆刀？
Ho-adamah.
何阿达玛。
Root beer?
根汁啤酒？
Is it a root?
是根吗？
Is it a beer?
是啤酒吗？
[BLEEP] [BLEEP] ass bitch.
[BLEEP] [BLEEP] 混蛋。
I tossed and turned, I blessed and cursed, and finally, I fell into an uncomfortable sleep.
我翻来覆去，祝福又咒骂，最后，我难受地睡着了。
After a week at home, Avrumi Gruenembaum conveniently returned to school just in time for the Blessing Bee.
在家呆了一个星期后，阿夫鲁米·格鲁内鲍姆 (Avrumi Gruenembaum) 方便地回到了学校，正好赶上祝福蜂节。
It was all I could do to not lean over and ask him how he did it.
我所能做的就是不去问他是怎么做到的。
Psst.
嘘。
Avrumi, tell me.
阿夫鲁米，告诉我。
Was it lobster?
是龙虾吗？
Did you eat lobster?
你吃过龙虾吗？
Rabbi Breyer told us that the Sages tell us that the Torah tells us that when Abraham died, Hashem comforted Isaac.
布雷耶拉比告诉我们，圣人们告诉我们，《托拉》告诉我们，亚伯拉罕死后，哈希姆安慰了以撒。
We learned from this that it is a tremendous mitzvah, or good deed, to comfort the bereaved.
我们从中了解到，安慰死者家属是一件伟大的成人礼或善行。
Rabbi Breyer instructed us all to line up at Avrumi's desk, to shake his hand, and recite the traditional mourner's constellation-- may Hashem comfort you among the mourners of Zion.
布雷耶拉比指示我们所有人在阿夫鲁米的办公桌前排队，与他握手，并背诵传统哀悼者的星座——愿哈希姆在锡安的哀悼者中安慰你们。
Just eight years old, I wasn't entirely familiar with Hashem's system, but it occurred to me that, along with all my sins, my father might also be getting all my mitzvahs.
年仅八岁的我并不完全熟悉哈希姆的体系，但我突然想到，除了我所有的罪孽之外，我的父亲也可能得到了我所有的成人礼。
I wasn't taking any chances.
我没有冒任何风险。
Soon, it was my turn in line.
很快，就轮到我了。
How's it going?
怎么样了？
I said to Avrumi.
我对阿夫鲁米说。
Rabbi Breyer pinched me.
布雷耶拉比掐了我一下。
Ow, I screamed.
噢，我尖叫起来。
Shmendrick, he grumbled.
施门德里克，他抱怨道。
After the last boy had asked Hashem to comfort Avrumi among the mourners of Zion, Rabbi Breyer smacked his desk loudly.
在最后一个男孩请求哈希姆安慰锡安哀悼者中的阿夫鲁米后，布雷耶拉比大声拍打着桌子。
The Blessing Bee began.
祝福蜂开始了。
We lined up at the back of the classroom, nervously pulling on our tzitzis and twirling our peyis.
我们在教室后面排成一排，紧张地拉着我们的titzitzes，旋转着我们的peyis。
The rules were simple.
规则很简单。
Name the correct blessing, and remain standing for the next round.
说出正确的祝福，并继续站立进行下一轮。
Name the wrong blessing, and you take your seat.
说出错误的祝福，然后你就坐下来。
Last year's winner, Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck, stood beside me.
去年的冠军 Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck 就站在我旁边。
He leaned calmly against the wall, mindlessly picking his nose.
他静静地靠在墙上，无意识地挖着鼻子。
Auslander, Shalom, called out Rabbi Breyer.
奥斯兰德沙洛姆喊出了布雷耶拉比。
I stepped forward.
我向前走去。
Apple, he shouted.
苹果，他喊道。
Apple, I called out.
苹果，我喊道。
Ha-eitz, the blessing for food from trees.
Ha-eitz，来自树木的食物的祝福。
Correct, Rabbi Breyer said.
正确，布雷耶拉比说。
The Blessing Bee usually started off pretty easy.
祝福蜂通常一开始就很容易。
David Borgen got tuna-- shehakol, the everything else blessing.
大卫·博根（David Borgen）得到了金枪鱼——shehakol，这是其他一切的祝福。
Ari Mashinsky got matzoh-- hamotzei, the blessing for bread.
阿里·马辛斯基 (Ari Mashinsky) 得到了 matzoh——hamotzei，对面包的祝福。
And Avi Tuchman got stuck with kugel, which he thought was ho-adamah-- food from the Earth-- but was really mezonos, the blessing on wheat.
阿维·塔奇曼 (Avi Tuchman) 被 kugel 困住了，他认为这是 ho-adamah（来自地球的食物），但实际上是 mezonos，即对小麦的祝福。
Three other kids got taken out by oatmeal.
另外三个孩子被燕麦片带走了。
Borscht with sour cream claimed two others.
酸奶油罗宋汤夺走另外两份。
And by the end of the first round, almost a third of the students were already back in their seats.
而第一轮结束时，几乎有三分之一的学生已经回到了座位上。
Round two.
第二轮。
Auslander, Shalom, called Rabbi Breyer.
奥斯兰德，沙洛姆，又称布雷耶拉比。
I stepped forward.
我向前走去。
Mushroom barley soup, he shouted.
蘑菇大麦汤，他喊道。
Mushroom barley soup?
蘑菇薏米汤？
Mushroom barley soup?
蘑菇薏米汤？
Damn.
该死。
I knew I should have studied the chapter on soups more.
我知道我应该更多地研究有关汤的章节。
I'd wasted half the week on entrees.
我在主菜上浪费了半周的时间。
Was it ho-adamah on the mushrooms, which came from the Earth?
是来自地球的蘑菇上的ho-adamah 吗？
Or was it mezonos on the barley?
或者是大麦上的中间层？
Maybe it was shehakol, the everything else blessing, on the soup.
也许是汤上的谢哈科尔（shehakol），其他一切的祝福。
Mushroom barley soup, I called out.
蘑菇薏米汤，我喊道。
Mezonos.
梅佐诺斯。
Rabbi Breyer tugged on his beard, his eyes narrowing into angry little slits.
布雷耶拉比揪着胡子，眼睛眯成一条愤怒的小缝。
And, ah, shehakol, I added?
还有，啊，shehakol，我补充道？
Rabbi Breyer triumphantly smacked his desk, signaling that I was correct.
布雷耶拉比得意地拍着桌子，示意我是对的。
Apple strudel took out David Borgen, Yoel Levine, and Shlomo Pomerantz.
苹果馅饼淘汰了大卫·博根、约尔·莱文和什洛莫·波梅兰茨。
My friend, Motty Greenberg, got stuck with cheesecake, and I could tell just by the expression on his face that he had absolutely no idea.
我的朋友莫蒂·格林伯格被芝士蛋糕困住了，我从他脸上的表情就知道他完全不知道。
He wisely offered two answers-- one for thin crust, and one for thick, and somehow managed to stay alive.
他明智地给出了两种答案——一种是薄皮，一种是厚皮，但他还是设法活了下来。
It was hard to believe this was only round two.
很难相信这只是第二轮。
Avrumi stepped forward.
阿夫鲁米向前走去。
I smiled at Motty.
我对莫蒂微笑。
Avrumi may have killed his father, but he wasn't very bright, and he never did well at these things.
阿夫鲁米可能杀了他的父亲，但他不太聪明，而且他在这些事情上从来没有做得很好。
He was lucky to even be in the second round at all.
他很幸运能够进入第二轮。
Bagel, shouted Rabbi Breyer.
百吉饼，布雷耶拉比喊道。
Bagel?
百吉饼？
I looked at Motty in disbelief.
我难以置信地看着莫蒂。
Was he kidding?
他是在开玩笑吗？
Bagel?
百吉饼？
Bagel, called out Avrumi.
百吉饼，阿夫鲁米喊道。
Hamotzei.
哈莫茨伊。
This was bull-[BLEEP].
这是公牛-[BLEEP]。
Correct, shouted Rabbi Breyer.
正确，布雷耶拉比喊道。
Very good.
非常好。
Ephraim Greenblat, Avrumi Epstein, and Yoel Frankel all got out on cholent with barley and large pieces of meat, while chopped liver on challah with a slice of lettuce and a bit of olive took out four more, including Motty.
埃弗雷姆·格林布拉特 (Ephraim Greenblat)、阿夫鲁米·爱泼斯坦 (Avrumi Epstein) 和约尔·弗兰克尔 (Yoel Frankel) 都吃了大麦和大块肉的胆汁，而切碎的肝脏放在白面包上，配上一片生菜和一点橄榄，另外四个人也被杀死了，其中包括莫蒂。
And then there were three.
然后是三个。
It was just Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck, Avrumi Gruenembaum, and me.
只有 Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck、Avrumi Gruenembaum 和我。
Round three began.
第三轮开始了。
Auslander, Shalom, called out Rabbi Breyer.
奥斯兰德沙洛姆喊出了布雷耶拉比。
I stepped forward.
我向前走去。
Ice cream, shouted Rabbi Breyer, in a cone.
布雷耶拉比喊道，冰淇淋是圆锥形的。
Ice cream in a cone.
圆锥形冰淇淋。
Ice cream in a cone.
圆锥形冰淇淋。
I knew ice cream, but why would he add the cone?
我知道冰淇淋，但他为什么要加蛋筒呢？
Was there something different if it was in a cone?
如果是在圆锥体中，会有什么不同吗？
What was an ice cream cone made of, anyway?
蛋卷冰淇淋到底是用什么做的呢？
Was it cake?
是蛋糕吗？
Was it a wafer?
它是晶圆吗？
Ice cream in a cone, Rabbi Breyer shouted.
甜筒冰淇淋，布雷耶拉比喊道。
Is the ice cream subordinate to the cone, or is it the cone's subordinate to the ice cream?
是冰淇淋从属于蛋筒，还是蛋筒从属于冰淇淋？
If it's a sugar cone, maybe you really desire the cone.
如果它是一个甜筒，也许你真的很想要这个甜筒。
Ice cream in a cone, Rabbi Breyer shouted again.
甜筒冰淇淋，布雷耶拉比再次喊道。
I had no choice.
我别无选择。
Ice cream in a cone, I called out.
蛋筒冰淇淋，我喊道。
No blessing.
没有祝福。
Everyone in the classroom turned to face me.
教室里的每个人都转过头来面对我。
Looking back on the whole episode, Rabbi Breyer had really left me no choice.
回顾整个情节，布雷耶拉比真的让我别无选择。
No blessing?
没有祝福吗？
said Rabbi Breyer.
布雷耶拉比说。
Why no blessing?
为什么没有祝福呢？
Because, I explained, nervously twirling my tzitzis, because the room smells like doody.
因为，我解释道，同时紧张地转动着我的兹兹兹，因为房间闻起来有股臭味。
There was a long silence.
一阵长时间的沉默。
Motty giggled, and others followed.
莫蒂咯咯笑起来，其他人也跟着笑起来。
Rabbi Breyer slowly rose to his feet, his thick fists pushing themselves into the desktop.
布雷耶拉比慢慢站起来，粗大的拳头摁在桌面上。
It may have been a loophole, but technically speaking, I was correct.
这可能是一个漏洞，但从技术上来说，我是对的。
Rabbi Breyer himself had told us that our Sages tell us that the Torah tells us that there were three situations in which one is absolutely prohibited from reciting a blessing.
布雷耶拉比本人曾告诉我们，我们的圣人告诉我们，托拉告诉我们，在三种情况下绝对禁止背诵祝福。
One, while facing a male over the age of nine years old whose genitals are showing; two, while facing a female over the age of three years old whose genitals are showing; and three, in the presence of feces.
一、面对一名九岁以上、生殖器裸露的男性；二、面对暴露生殖器的三岁以上女性；第三，有粪便的情况下。
Frankly, given the other two options, I think I chose the least offensive answer.
坦率地说，考虑到其他两个选项，我想我选择了最不冒犯的答案。
For a big man, Rabbi Breyer moved pretty quickly.
对于一个大个子来说，拉比·布雷耶的动作相当快。
It's true, I said, as he barreled toward me.
这是真的，当他冲向我时我说道。
The Torah says that-- he grabbed me roughly by my arm, lifting me clear off the ground, and dragged me towards the door, shouting angrily in Yiddish the whole time.
《托拉》是这么说的——他粗暴地抓住我的手臂，把我从地上举起来，然后把我拖向门口，一直用意第绪语愤怒地大喊。
But it smells like doody, I yelled.
但它闻起来像臭味，我喊道。
The room smells like doody.
房间里有一股臭味。
Wait, there's a naked girl in the room.
等等，房间里有一个裸体女孩。
There's a naked girl.
那里有一个裸体女孩。
The door slammed shut behind me.
门在我身后关上了。
I stood in the hallway and rub my bruised arm.
我站在走廊上，揉着受伤的手臂。
I began to cry.
我开始哭泣。
The Blessing Bee was lost.
祝福蜂号丢失了。
I was not a great rabbi.
我不是一个伟大的拉比。
And my father was still not dead.
而我的父亲还没有死。
I tiptoed toward the classroom door and listened closely.
我蹑手蹑脚地走到教室门口，仔细地听着。
Two minutes later, Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck fell victim to matzoh brei with maple syrup.
两分钟后，Yukisiel Zalman Yehuda Schneck 成为了枫糖浆 matzoh brei 的受害者。
And the last man standing was Avrumi Gruenembaum.
最后一个站着的是阿夫鲁米·格鲁内鲍姆 (Avrumi Gruenembaum)。
Apples, called out Rabbi Breyer.
苹果，布雷耶拉比喊道。
Apples, Avrumi answered.
苹果，阿夫鲁米回答。
Ha-eitz.
海兹。
Mazel tov, called out Rabbi Breyer, mazel tov.
马泽尔托夫，叫拉比布雷耶，马泽尔托夫。
Total bull-[BLEEP].
完全公牛-[BLEEP]。
That night, we had the traditional Friday night gefilte fish-- shehakol-- with a little slice of carrot-- ho-adamah.
那天晚上，我们吃了传统的周五晚上鱼丸——shehakol——配上一小片胡萝卜——ho-adamah。
My father was drunk again, singing Shabbos songs, fudging the words and banging heavily on the table with his fist.
我父亲又喝醉了，唱着沙博斯歌曲，捏造歌词，用拳头重重地敲打着桌子。
My mother went into the kitchen and brought out the soup.
妈妈走进厨房，把汤端了出来。
When my brother said he didn't want any, my father slapped him, pushed him over backward onto the floor, and poured the hot chicken soup onto his face.
当我哥哥说他不要的时候，我父亲就打了他一巴掌，把他推倒在地上，把热鸡汤倒在他脸上。
My mother took my brother into the bathroom and sat with him on the edge of the bathtub, pressing a cold washcloth against his cheeks.
妈妈把弟弟带进浴室，和他一起坐在浴缸边上，用冰冷的毛巾盖在他的脸颊上。
I went back to the dining room to get the chicken soup off the floor.
我回到餐厅把地板上的鸡汤清理掉。
Chicken soup is a shehakol, even if it is cooked with vegetables, since chicken is the dominant taste in the soup.
鸡汤是 shehakol，即使是和蔬菜一起煮的，因为鸡肉是汤中的主要味道。
Rabbi Breyer told us that the Sages tell us that the Torah tells us that the Holy One, blessed be he, sent the Egyptians 10 plagues in order to teach us that he gives people many chances to repent.
布雷耶拉比告诉我们，圣人们告诉我们，《托拉》告诉我们，圣者（愿他受祝福）向埃及人降下十场瘟疫，目的是为了告诉我们，他给了人们很多悔改的机会。
And only then, if they still continue to sin, does he punish them with death.
只有到那时，如果他们仍然继续犯罪，他才会以死刑惩罚他们。
I went downstairs to my bedroom, took four steps without my yarmulke on, touched myself, flicked the lights off and on, and fell asleep.
我下楼来到卧室，没戴圆顶小帽，走了四步，摸了摸自己，关了灯又开，然后睡着了。
Shalom Auslander.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德.
He's the author of many fine books.
他是许多优秀书籍的作者。
This story appears in his memoir, Foreskin's Lament.
这个故事出现在他的回忆录《包皮的哀歌》中。
[MUSIC - "(HE'S) THE GREAT IMPOSTER" BY THE FLEETWOODS]
[音乐 - 弗利特伍德乐队的“（他）伟大的骗子”]
Our program was produced today by me and Blue Chevigny, with Alex Blumberg, Susan Burton, and Julie Snyder.
今天我们的节目是由我和 Blue Chevigny、Alex Blumberg、Susan Burton 和 Julie Snyder 共同制作的。
Our contributing editors for today's show, Paul Tuft, Jack Hit, Margie Rocken, Elise Spiegel, and consigliere Sarah Vowell.
我们今天节目的特约编辑是 Paul Tuft、Jack Hit、Margie Rocken、Elise Spiegel 和顾问 Sarah Vowell。
Mixing up today by Jared Ford and Catherine Raimondo.
今天贾里德·福特和凯瑟琳·雷蒙多的混音。
Production up from Anna Martin.
由安娜·马丁制作。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org, where you can listen to over 600 episodes of our show for absolutely free.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org，您可以在其中完全免费收听我们节目的 600 多集。
This American Life is distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 发行。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who is not jealous at all of the fact that the This American Life staff gets to tape interviews all the time.
一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他对《This American Life》的工作人员一直在录制采访这一事实并不嫉妒。
You know, I do it, too.
你知道，我也这样做。
I tape people, using an alias.
我用化名对人进行录音。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。