652: ICE Capades - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #652 | July 20, 2018 652: ICE Capades Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 652 集 | 2018 年 7 月 20 日 652：ICE Capades 注：This American Life 是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass I had a weird conversation with a congressman this week.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 这周我和一位国会议员进行了一次奇怪的谈话。
This is Mark Pocan, Democrat out of Wisconsin.
我是马克·波坎，来自威斯康星州的民主党人。
The main sponsor of a bill to do this thing that protesters have been calling for the last few months, abolish ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.
抗议者过去几个月一直呼吁的一项法案的主要发起者是废除移民和海关执法局（ICE）。
His bill would terminate the agency.
他的法案将终止该机构。
Immigration enforcement would continue, but a bipartisan commission would hand off the stuff that ICE does to other federal agencies, and eliminate anything it deems inhumane or cruel, or a violation of international agreements.
移民执法将继续，但两党委员会将把 ICE 所做的事情移交给其他联邦机构，并消除任何它认为不人道或残忍或违反国际协议的行为。
After one year, the agency would not exist.
一年后，该机构将不复存在。
It would be abolished.
它将被废除。
But the politics of this are so peculiar that in our half hour conversation, the congressman could not bring himself to say the actual words that he would abolish ICE.
但此事的政治性是如此奇特，以至于在我们半小时的谈话中，这位国会议员无法说出他将废除 ICE 的实际话语。
I think I've answered that question a few times, Ira.
我想我已经回答过这个问题好几次了，艾拉。
But just yes or no. Do you want to abolish the agency?
但只是是或否。你想取消这个机构吗？
Ira, for a half hour, I've given you a conversation on this, and I think I've explained what I'm trying to do.
艾拉，在半个小时的时间里，我已经就这个问题与你进行了对话，我想我已经解释了我想要做什么。
Do you have the bill, because do you need me to shoot you the words.
你有账单吗，因为你需要我给你发话。
I'm not sure if you have it in front of you.
我不确定你是否有它在你面前。
No, I have it in front of me.
不，它就在我面前。
It says to establish a commission that would terminate Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
它说要建立一个委员会来终止移民和海关执法。
It's establish a commission to reassign the essential duties that were created by ICE to other agencies, and to get rid of the unnecessary duties.
它成立了一个委员会，将 ICE 设立的基本职责重新分配给其他机构，并取消不必要的职责。
That's the essential thrust of the bill, and that's what we're trying to accomplish.
这是该法案的核心主旨，也是我们正在努力实现的目标。
Right.
正确的。
So you do want to terminate the agency?
那么您确实想终止该代理机构吗？
You do want to abolish the agency?
你真想废除这个机构吗？
I want to make sure the essential duties of the agency--
我想确定该机构的基本职责——
To understand why he was talking this way, let me tell you the story of his last two weeks in Congress.
为了理解他为什么这样说话，让我告诉你他在国会最后两周的故事。
It began when he proposed this bill to abolish ICE.
事情始于他提出这项废除 ICE 的法案。
Mainly, he and his co-sponsors were objecting to the way that President Trump has the agency going after undocumented immigrants these days.
主要是，他和他的共同发起人反对特朗普总统最近让该机构追查无证移民的方式。
One of his co-sponsors, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal told me they had no illusions about this ever making it to the floor of the House.
他的共同提案人之一、国会女议员普拉米拉·贾亚帕尔 (Pramila Jayapal) 告诉我，他们对这一提案能够进入众议院并不抱有任何幻想。
No, no, no. Because no immigration bills on our side get brought to the floor, not even ones that have significant co-sponsorship, including Republican co-sponsorship, like the Dream Act.
不，不，不。因为我们这边没有任何移民法案被付诸表决，即使是那些有重要共同提案国（包括共和党共同提案国）的法案，例如《梦想法案》。
And so it was very clear to us that this was just a messaging bill for us to be able to really talk about how outrageous the agency is.
因此，我们非常清楚，这只是一项信息法案，让我们能够真正谈论该机构有多么无耻。
So they introduced their bill, and it got some Democratic support.
所以他们提出了他们的法案，并得到了一些民主党的支持。
But you know who really loved it?
但你知道谁真正喜欢它吗？
Republicans.
共和党人。
They have really jumped the sharks on the left.
他们确实跳过了左边的鲨鱼。
This is the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan.
我是众议院议长保罗·瑞安。
They have really-- it's an amazing, it's the craziest position I've ever seen.
他们真的——这真是太神奇了，这是我见过的最疯狂的位置。
And they are just tripping over themselves to move too far to the left.
他们只是因为向左移动得太远而被自己绊倒了。
They're out of the mainstream of America.
他们脱离了美国的主流。
For months now, actually, conservative media have loved any hint that the Democrats want to abolish ICE.
事实上，几个月来，保守派媒体一直喜欢民主党想要废除 ICE 的任何暗示。
Fits into their whole narrative that the Democrats are soft on immigration, and adds a kind of wingnut extremist edge to it, like people who call for the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service.
这符合他们的整个叙述，即民主党在移民问题上态度软弱，并为其增添了一种极端主义的边缘，就像那些呼吁废除国税局的人一样。
In that way, abolish ICE is the build the wall of the left, blunt like a punch to the jaw, exciting for those who believe in it, whackadoodle for those who don't.
这样看来，废除 ICE 就是筑起左翼的围墙，就像打在下巴上的一拳一样钝，对于那些相信它的人来说是令人兴奋的，对于那些不相信它的人来说则是令人震惊的。
And if you get right down to it, maybe not the very best way to fix the problem that it is supposed to fix, but that is not what we're here talking about today.
如果你认真对待它，也许不是解决它应该解决的问题的最佳方法，但这不是我们今天在这里讨论的内容。
Here are Jesse Watters and Laura Ingraham, gleeful on Fox.
这是杰西·沃特斯和劳拉·英格拉汉姆，他们对福克斯感到高兴。
I cannot believe they're doing it.
我不敢相信他们正在这么做。
It's political suicide.
这是政治自杀。
Good luck on turning that into a platform that actually wins votes.
祝你好运，将其变成一个真正赢得选票的平台。
President Trump tweeted, "The two biggest opponents of ICE in America today are the Democratic Party and MS-13!"
特朗普总统发推文称，“当今美国ICE最大的两个反对者是民主党和MS-13！”
I love that issue if they're going to actually do that.
如果他们真的这么做的话，我喜欢这个问题。
They're seriously talking about that?
他们是在认真谈论这个吗？
It didn't take long, just one day.
时间并不长，仅仅一天。
The Republican leadership in the House was like, you want to abolish ICE?
众议院的共和党领导层说，你想废除 ICE 吗？
Great.
伟大的。
Here's House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy.
这是众议院多数党领袖凯文·麦卡锡的讲话。
Well, you know what?
嗯，你知道吗？
We're going to have a vote on the floor.
我们将进行现场投票。
So Mark Pocan and a few of his co-sponsors did something you do not see very often.
因此，马克·波坎和他的一些共同发起人做了一些你不常看到的事情。
They told everybody, we have this bill, don't vote for it.
他们告诉大家，我们有这项法案，不要投票支持。
Basically, it's a trap.
基本上，这是一个陷阱。
Clearly, there was no real intention to see that bill pass.
显然，并没有真正的意图让该法案获得通过。
They were trying to use it as some kind of a gotcha at election time.
他们试图在选举期间利用它作为某种陷阱。
Apparently, the Republicans saw this, that all the Democrats were ready to go on record and vote, all of them together, and say they do not want to abolish ICE, which is exactly the opposite message that the Republicans want them to be carrying into midterms.
显然，共和党人看到了这一点，所有民主党人都准备好记录并投票，所有人都在一起，并表示他们不想废除 ICE，这与共和党人希望他们在中期选举中传达的信息恰恰相反。
So they ditched that plan.
所以他们放弃了这个计划。
The bill didn't come to the fore.
该法案没有引起人们的注意。
Instead, this week, Republicans in the House took a different tack.
相反，本周众议院共和党人采取了不同的策略。
The clerk will report the title of the resolution.
书记员将报告决议的标题。
House resolution 990, resolution supporting the officers and personnel who carry out the important mission of the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
众议院第 990 号决议，该决议支持执行美国移民和海关执法局重要使命的官员和人员。
Behold, a House resolution in support of ICE and also incidentally officially denouncing anybody who calls for the agency's abolishment.
看哪，众议院通过了一项支持 ICE 的决议，同时也顺便正式谴责任何要求废除该机构的人。
Calls to abolish ICE, it says, are an insult to these heroic law enforcement officers who make sacrifices every day to secure our borders, enforce our laws, and protect our safety and security.
报告称，呼吁废除 ICE 是对这些英勇的执法人员的侮辱，他们每天都在为保卫我们的边境、执行我们的法律和保护我们的安全而做出牺牲。
No surprise it passed easily, 244 to 35.
毫不奇怪，它以 244 比 35 轻松通过。
Most Democrats, 133 of them, simply voted present, and thus avoided being on the record either for or against the agency.
大多数民主党人（其中 133 人）只是投票出席，从而避免了支持或反对该机构的记录。
That is just how radioactive, how politically dangerous this whole idea of abolishing ICE is.
这就是废除 ICE 的整个想法的放射性和政治危险性。
The phrase, abolish ICE, does not even appear in the Democrats' bill to abolish ICE.
“废除 ICE”这个词甚至没有出现在民主党废除 ICE 的法案中。
And I suppose that's why Congressman Pocan did not want to say the phrase out loud with me.
我想这就是波坎议员不想和我大声说出这句话的原因。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, we have two stories from this hot potato of a federal agency, one that does so many things I bet you know nothing about, one that has expanded its powers rapidly.
今天，在我们的节目中，我们有两个来自联邦机构这个棘手问题的故事，其中一个做了很多事情，我敢打赌你一无所知，另一个则迅速扩大了权力。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, We'll Talk About It in the Car.
第一幕，我们在车里讨论。
So in this show about ICE, before we get started, it seems like it might be a good idea to do a very quick primer on what exactly ICE is.
因此，在这个关于 ICE 的节目中，在我们开始之前，快速了解一下 ICE 到底是什么似乎是个好主意。
The agency has only been around for 15 years.
该机构成立仅 15 年。
It was created after September 11th.
它是在 9 月 11 日之后创建的。
The idea was, Customs and Border Protection would be the agency at the actual border stopping people there.
这个想法是，海关和边境保护局将成为实际边境阻止人们入境的机构。
ICE would deal with the interior of the country, and a lot of its mission at the beginning was very post-9/11.
ICE 负责处理该国的内陆事务，其一开始的许多任务都是 9/11 后的事情。
It was all about catching terrorists, arms traffickers, cyber crimes, transnational gangs, child predators, catching criminals of various sorts.
这一切都是为了抓捕恐怖分子、军火贩运者、网络犯罪、跨国团伙、儿童掠夺者以及抓捕各种犯罪分子。
One department of ICE went after undocumented immigrants.
ICE 的一个部门负责追捕无证移民。
But it was not nearly as robust.
但它并没有那么强大。
It did not do as much until after immigration reform failed in 2007.
直到 2007 年移民改革失败后，它才发挥了如此大的作用。
Since then, that part of the agency has stepped up its game under rules set by each new administration.
从那时起，该机构的这一部分就按照每届新政府制定的规则加强了运作。
President Obama still has the record for the most people deported, but President Trump, of course, has unleashed agents like they have never been unleashed before.
奥巴马总统仍然保持着驱逐人数最多的记录，但特朗普总统当然以前所未有的方式释放了特工。
Today, they can question pretty much anybody they meet and put them into deportation proceedings, even if they have no criminal record, even if they have lived here productively and peacefully for decades.
如今，他们几乎可以盘问他们遇到的任何人，并将他们送入驱逐程序，即使他们没有犯罪记录，即使他们已经在这里高效、和平地生活了几十年。
ICE has brought back worksite raids.
ICE 已恢复对工地的突击搜查。
They're involved with the family separations, along with Customs and Border Protection.
他们与海关和边境保护局一起参与了家庭离散事件。
This week, there were, and of course it's a unique week, because every day, families that the Trump administration separated at the border are being reunited.
本周，当然这是独特的一周，因为特朗普政府在边境离散的家庭每天都在团聚。
The administration has a court imposed deadline to get everybody back together by Thursday, July 26.
政府规定了法院规定的最后期限，要求所有人在 7 月 26 日星期四之前重新聚在一起。
That's why they acknowledged that they are not going to make it, or maybe even come close, which brings us to our first story today.
这就是为什么他们承认他们不会成功，甚至可能无法接近，这就是我们今天的第一个故事。
And OK, I realize there is a lot of coverage out there of parents being reunited with children.
好吧，我意识到有很多关于父母与孩子团聚的报道。
But we came across this audio that we thought was unusual, and took us inside the world of that in this way that we had not heard elsewhere.
但我们发现了这个我们认为不寻常的音频，并以我们在其他地方没有听到过的方式带我们进入了这个世界。
A reporter named Jeremy Raff, who's with The Atlantic, has been following this one lawyer in Texas for this documentary he's making.
《大西洋月刊》的一位名叫杰里米·拉夫 (Jeremy Raff) 的记者一直在跟踪这位德克萨斯州的律师，拍摄他正在制作的这部纪录片。
And he's friends with one of the producers of our show, Nadia Reiman and shared with her this material that he's been videotaping of this lawyer trying to reunite one mom and her son.
他是我们节目的制作人之一纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 的朋友，并与她分享了他一直在录像的这位律师试图让一位母亲和她的儿子团聚的材料。
Quick warning that we've unbeeped the curse words here in the podcast.
快速警告我们已经取消了播客中的咒语。
If you prefer a beeped version of our show, maybe you're listening with kids, it's at our website.
如果您喜欢我们节目的嘟嘟声版本，也许您正在和孩子们一起收听，请访问我们的网站。
Here's Nadia and you will hear from Jeremy, the reporter, later in the story.
这是纳迪亚（Nadia），您将在稍后的故事中听到记者杰里米（Jeremy）的发言。
Jodi Goodwin, the immigration lawyer, speaks pretty good Spanish for a white girl.
移民律师乔迪·古德温（Jodi Goodwin）的西班牙语对于白人女孩来说相当流利。
She's effortless in it, moves through her words in neatly accented Norteno tones, dropping perfectly placed Spanish f-bombs.
她的表演毫不费力，用带有整齐的诺特诺口音的语气说着自己的话，完美地吐出了西班牙语的“脏话”。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] dialing numbers, you know, just waiting for somebody to answer the phone.
[说西班牙语] 拨打号码，你知道，只是等待有人接电话。
How are you doing?
你好吗？
That's her on the phone with an ICE officer.
那是她正在和 ICE 官员通电话。
She's in Harlingen, Texas, way down in the southern tip, where she's been practicing immigration law for more than 20 years.
她位于德克萨斯州哈林根，位于南端，她在那里从事移民法工作已有 20 多年。
So she knows these guys.
所以她认识这些人。
She's grown up with them.
她是和他们一起长大的。
I mean I care about them.
我的意思是我关心他们。
I mean, they're my friends.
我是说，他们是我的朋友。
They're people that I work with all the time.
他们是我一直一起工作的人。
I mean, we've known each other for like over two decades.
我的意思是，我们已经认识二十多年了。
We've seen our kids be born, we've gone through health issues with our children.
我们见证了孩子的出生，也经历了孩子的健康问题。
The kids go to the same schools.
孩子们上同一所学校。
Yeah, yeah, I'm here.
是啊是啊，我在这儿。
Nadia Reiman She's on the phone trying to get a Honduran woman named Anita out of detention and reunited with her son, Jenri.
纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 她正在打电话，试图让一位名叫安妮塔 (Anita) 的洪都拉斯妇女出狱，并与她的儿子詹里 (Jenri) 团聚。
They have been separated for about a month.
他们已经分开大约一个月了。
An ICE agent told her that Anita should be out on bond, but she's not.
一名 ICE 特工告诉她，安妮塔应该保释，但她没有。
Are you freaking kidding me?
你他妈是在开玩笑吗？
I know.
我知道。
This woman has a freaking five year old.
这个女人有一个该死的五岁孩子。
OK, who's my best bet with the supervisors to get this overridden?
好吧，我和主管们最有可能推翻这个规定吗？
Because this is bullshit to have one policy for some people and continue to cause prolonged trauma to a fucking five year old.
因为为某些人制定一项政策并继续给一个他妈的五岁孩子造成长期创伤，这是胡说八道。
Even the ICE agents that Jodi's known for over two decades have conflicting info.
就连乔迪认识了二十多年的 ICE 探员也掌握着相互矛盾的信息。
One says, yeah, she should be out soon on bond.
有人说，是的，她应该很快就能保释。
The other is like, no, we're not giving bonds anymore.
另一个则说，不，我们不再提供债券了。
But Jodi talks to a manager, and she gets them to release Anita.
但乔迪与经理交谈，她让他们释放了安妮塔。
Anita's kid, Jenri, though, he's at a shelter nearby.
不过，安妮塔的孩子詹里就在附近的避难所里。
It's called BCFS.
它被称为BCFS。
To get him out, Jodi has his birth certificate and Anita's ID.
为了把他救出来，乔迪拿出了他的出生证明和安妮塔的身份证。
She's emailed all the necessary paperwork, but she's still not sure how it will play out.
她已经通过电子邮件发送了所有必要的文件，但她仍然不确定会如何进行。
She's seen other parents do this, and be told, you can visit for an hour, but you can't have your child back.
她见过其他父母这样做，并被告知，你可以探望一个小时，但你不能让你的孩子回来。
Come back again tomorrow.
明天再回来吧。
One parent had been told this four times.
一位家长已经被告知四次了。
Four days in a row, they showed up, hung out with their kid for an hour, and still, no reunification.
连续四天，他们都出现了，和孩子一起玩了一个小时，但仍然没有团聚。
So recently, some parents have been buying tents and threatening to set up a camp right outside the shelters, refusing to leave until they get their kids back.
最近，一些家长购买了帐篷，并威胁要在避难所外搭建营地，在把孩子带回来之前拒绝离开。
So Jodi tells Anita about this and says, do you want to sleep outside if that's what it takes to get Jenri back?
所以乔迪告诉安妮塔这件事，并说，如果这就是让 Jenri 回来的必要条件，你想睡在外面吗？
Anita's like, yes.
安妮塔说，是的。
While Jodi is explaining all of this to Anita, she's going through this huge stack of papers.
当乔迪向安妮塔解释这一切时，她正在翻阅这一大堆文件。
She turns one page, and there is a black and white photo of Anita and her son.
她翻过一页，看到一张安妮塔和她儿子的黑白照片。
It was taken just a few moments before border patrol separated them.
几分钟后，边境巡逻人员将他们分开。
Anita sees this picture, and starts to tear up.
安妮塔看到这张照片，开始流泪。
Jodi notices.
乔迪注意到了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman And she's like, hey, we're in this fight together.
[说西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 她说，嘿，我们一起战斗。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman Those tears, we're going to save those tears for when you get your kid back.
[说西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 这些眼泪，我们会留着这些眼泪，等你把孩子带回来的时候。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman The mama bear is going to come out.
[西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 熊妈妈要出来了。
We're going to be a mama bear tomorrow.
明天我们就要成为熊妈妈了。
So the next morning, they drive to the shelter armed with paperwork.
因此第二天早上，他们带着文件开车前往避难所。
It looks like a church.
它看起来像一座教堂。
There are basketball courts outside, there's classrooms.
外面有篮球场，有教室。
Jodi and Anita knock on the door, and they go inside.
乔迪和安妮塔敲门，然后他们进去了。
And then, some BCFS employees take them to this room, and there's Jenri.
然后，一些 BCFS 员工带他们到这个房间，Jenri 就在那里。
No need for tents or mama bears or anything.
不需要帐篷或熊妈妈什么的。
They're ready to release them.
他们准备释放他们。
Anita's thrilled, but her five year old, who hasn't seen her in a month--
安妮塔很兴奋，但她五岁的孩子已经一个月没见到她了——
Jenri was sitting in a chair, and he remained seated in the chair.
Jenri坐在椅子上，他也坐在椅子上。
And he didn't get out of the chair.
他没有从椅子上站起来。
He didn't run to his mom.
他没有跑去找他妈妈。
And that shocked Anita.
这让安妮塔感到震惊。
She started crying, and she knelt down on the floor in front of the chair where her little boy was sitting.
她开始哭泣，跪在她小儿子坐的椅子前的地板上。
And she tried to give him a hug, and she asked for forgiveness a lot of times.
她试图给他一个拥抱，并多次请求他的原谅。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] over and over again.
[说西班牙语]一遍又一遍。
And then she kept talking to him and she pulled herself back a little bit so she could see his face.
然后她继续和他说话，她把自己向后退了一点，以便能看到他的脸。
She put her hands on his face, and she asked how he was and if they had treated him well.
她把手放在他的脸上，问他怎么样，他们对他是否好。
And he didn't say anything.
他什么也没说。
She kind of just gave it a few seconds to make some eye contact.
她只是给了几秒钟的时间进行眼神交流。
It was probably about a minute later that he reached his arms around and gave her a big hug, and I think they probably hugged each other for about two minutes before they let go.
大约一分钟后，他伸出双臂，给了她一个大大的拥抱，我想他们可能互相拥抱了大约两分钟，然后才松开。
It's not clear why it was so quick to get him out.
目前尚不清楚为什么这么快就把他救了出来。
Jodi's best guess is that it's some combination of all the media attention plus the upcoming deadline for reunifying parents and kids.
乔迪的最佳猜测是，这是所有媒体关注加上即将到来的父母和孩子团聚最后期限的结合。
On top of that, if Anita had set up a tent outside, which she was totally ready to do, it wouldn't have been great press.
最重要的是，如果安妮塔在外面搭了一个帐篷——她完全准备好了，那就不会有太大的新闻报道了。
So all this audio was gathered by my friend, Jeremy Raff, from The Atlantic, and I'm just going to let him mostly take it from here.
所以所有这些音频都是由我的朋友杰里米·拉夫（Jeremy Raff）在《大西洋月刊》上收集的，我会让他大部分从这里获取。
When Jodi and Anita went to pick up Jenri, he was there, but he wasn't allowed in the shelter.
当乔迪和安妮塔去接詹瑞时，他也在场，但他不被允许进入收容所。
So he waited outside.
于是他就在外面等着。
It was like 100 degrees out, so he was under a tree.
外面的角度大约为 100 度，所以他在一棵树下。
After a long time, I see, first I catch sight of Jodi, and she's walking next to a woman in a sort of starched blue button up with the BCFS logo on it.
过了很长一段时间，我明白了，我首先看到了乔迪，她走在一个女人旁边，她穿着一件浆过的蓝色纽扣衬衫，上面有 BCFS 标志。
And then next to her is a really little boy, like smaller than I thought he was going to look like, holding Anita's hand.
然后她旁边是一个非常小的男孩，比我想象的要小，握着安妮塔的手。
And the four of them are walking out.
而四人也正往外走去。
I've seen a bunch of videos and photos online of parents being reunited with their kids, grabbing them like a life raft while the kid looks confused and far away.
我在网上看到了很多父母与孩子团聚的视频和照片，他们像救生筏一样抓住他们，而孩子却显得困惑而遥远。
But they usually stop here.
但他们通常就停在这里。
I'd never really heard what happens next, once the parents and kids are left trying to figure out how to be with each other again after weeks of not knowing where the other slept or ate, or when they were coming back.
我从来没有真正听说过接下来会发生什么，一旦父母和孩子在几周不知道对方在哪里睡觉或吃饭，也不知道他们什么时候回来之后，试图弄清楚如何再次和彼此在一起。
Jeremy is with Anita and Jenri while all of this is happening.
当这一切发生时，杰里米和安妮塔和詹里在一起。
They walk up to Jodi's truck and they open the door, and like, you know, Jodi has a kid the same age as this little boy, and so she brought some of his toys along and they're in the back seat.
他们走到乔迪的卡车前，打开车门，就像，你知道，乔迪有一个和这个小男孩同龄的孩子，所以她带来了他的一些玩具，它们放在后座上。
And so he's like checking out these little monster trucks that Jodi brought for him.
所以他就像在检查乔迪给他带来的这些小怪物卡车。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman He's saying, toys, toys.
[西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 他说，玩具，玩具。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Jeremy Raff She's like, we're here, we came for you, are you excited?
[说西班牙语] Jeremy Raff 她说，我们来了，我们是来找你的，你兴奋吗？
And he's sort of like information overload at this point.
此时他有点像信息超载。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman He's telling her that he brought her water.
[说西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 他告诉她他给她带来了水。
He's saying, mommy, I brought you water for you to drink too.
他说，妈妈，我给你带了水给你喝。
Yeah, he brought his mom little gifts.
是的，他给妈妈带来了小礼物。
He brought her water.
他给她带来了水。
He brought her a little bracelet he was really proud of that he gave her as a gift.
他给她带来了一个小手镯，他非常自豪这是他送给她的礼物。
And then he had a little watch on that he was super proud of all day, a little Superman watch that lights up with like, you know, blinking.
然后他戴着一块小手表，他一整天都为此感到非常自豪，一块小超人手表，它会闪烁，你知道，闪烁。
He's like trying to put this little watch on his mom's wrist.
他就像试图把这只小手表戴在他妈妈的手腕上。
We stopped by this gas station, and Jodi kind of buys Jenri some treats, I think trying to make him feel like a regular kid again.
我们在这个加油站停下来，乔迪给詹里买了一些零食，我想是为了让他再次感觉像个普通的孩子。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Jenri [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] Jenri [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Jeremy Raff I'm crammed in the backseat with Anita and Jenri in the car seat.
[说西班牙语] Jeremy Raff 我挤在后座，Anita 和 Jenri 坐在汽车座椅上。
He's got a little car seat for little kids.
他为小孩子准备了一个小汽车座椅。
And Anita just turns to him and starts asking him all about what happened after they were separated.
安妮塔转向他，开始向他询问他们分开后发生的一切。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Jenri [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] Jenri [说西班牙语]
So Anita's asking him like, where did they go, where did they take Jenri after they were separated.
所以安妮塔问他，他们去了哪里，分开后他们把詹里带到哪里了。
And Jenri's telling her her
Jenri 告诉她她
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Jeremy Raff --icebox, you know you sleep on a little mattress on the ground with a space blanket.
[插话] Jeremy Raff --icebox，你知道你睡在地上的小床垫上，上面盖着太空毯。
So Anita's asking him if there were lots of kids with him, and he says that he was cold, and so he turns and he says to someone, teacher, I'm cold, can I have a blanket.
安妮塔问他是否有很多孩子和他在一起，他说他很冷，所以他转过身来对某人说，老师，我冷，能给我一条毯子吗？
And that person, who I'm guessing is probably like an ICE officer or something, or a--
我猜那个人可能是 ICE 官员之类的，或者是——
Border patrol agent.
边境巡逻人员。
Nadia Reiman Someone there tells them, no, not yet.
纳迪亚·雷曼 有人告诉他们，不，还没有。
And then when they finally give him a blanket, Jenri's saying that he shared it with another kid.
然后当他们最终给了他一条毯子时，Jenri 说他和另一个孩子分享了它。
And his mom is like you shared it with another child.
他的妈妈就像你和另一个孩子分享的一样。
And he says, yep.
他说，是的。
And she says, that's really good, sweetie.
她说，这真的很好，亲爱的。
Yeah, I mean, this is her first time seeing him, and I think she's just looking at him, trying to imagine what he's been through while she has not been able to be there with him.
是的，我的意思是，这是她第一次见到他，我想她只是看着他，试图想象当她无法和他在一起时他经历了什么。
Anita's struggling, But Jenri seemed like he was doing just fine.
安妮塔（Anita）很挣扎，但詹里（Jenri）看起来一切都很好。
He had chocolate.
他有巧克力。
He was surrounded by toys.
他周围都是玩具。
The next step was for them to get on a plane to go stay with a relative in another part of the US, while their asylum case was being processed.
下一步是让他们登上飞机前往美国另一个地方的亲戚那里住，同时他们的庇护申请正在处理中。
But it's a small town.
但这是一个小镇。
There aren't a lot of flights.
航班不多。
So they go to a shelter run by Catholic charity, where they can spend the night.
于是他们去了天主教慈善机构经营的庇护所，在那里过夜。
When they get there, Jenri is taking in every bit of his mom's attention like a sponge.
当他们到达那里时，Jenri 像海绵一样吸引着妈妈的每一点注意力。
They're like in a little dorm room at this shelter, and they're just sort of reacclimating.
他们就像在这个避难所的一间小宿舍里，他们只是在重新适应。
They're like in a bunk bed, just, she's tickling Jenri, they're talking.
他们就像在一张双层床上，只是，她在挠 Jenri 的痒痒，他们在说话。
They're sort of like reacquainting themselves.
他们有点像重新认识自己。
So there's this thing that happens.
所以就发生了这样的事情。
In Spanish, there's two ways of saying, I love you.
在西班牙语中，有两种表达“我爱你”的方式。
There's te quiero, which means, I little love you.
还有 te quiero，意思是，我有点爱你。
Like, I love you, but it's for things that are not necessarily permanent.
就像，我爱你，但它不一定是永久的。
And then there's te amo, which is like, I love you, love you, for like, I love you with a capital L, and that's for things that don't ever go away.
然后是 te amo，意思是，我爱你，爱你，因为就像，我爱你用大写的 L，这是为了永远不会消失的事情。
And you do not throw a te amo around, but you can say like, te quiero, like a little bit is here.
你不会到处乱扔“te amo”，但你可以说“te quiero”，就像这里有一点点一样。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman And so Anita is telling Jenri, she's like, guess what.
[说西班牙语] Nadia Reiman 所以 Anita 告诉 Jenri，她就像，你猜怎么着。
And he's like, te quiero.
他就像，te quiero。
And she's like, no, te amo.
她说，不，我爱你。
So she's like no, I really love you.
所以她就像不，我真的很爱你。
And he kind of giggles and he's like, te queiro, like, I little love you.
他咯咯地笑了，他就像，te queiro，就像，我有点爱你。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Anita [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 安妮塔 [说西班牙语]
That went on late into the evening.
就这样一直持续到深夜。
But then, around 11:00 PM, things took a bit of a turn.
但后来，晚上 11:00 左右，事情发生了一些转变。
Jenri was still really excited and wasn't going to sleep anytime soon.
Jenri 仍然很兴奋，很快就睡不着。
And one of the nuns came in to kind of settle everyone down, make sure they had everything they needed, you know, for the next day, leaving.
一位修女进来安顿每个人，确保他们拥有第二天离开所需的一切。
And Jenri's like running all over the place, right, in this little room.
Jenri 就喜欢到处乱跑，对吧，就在这个小房间里。
And he eventually reaches for the TV, almost like he's going to rip the TV off the wall, so this nun says, oh, don't touch that, you know.
他最终伸手去拿电视，几乎就像他要把电视从墙上撕下来一样，所以这个修女说，哦，别碰那个，你知道的。
At the shelter, it was actually sisters, not nuns.
在收容所，实际上是姐妹们，而不是修女。
And he just starts repeating, don't touch, no touching.
他就开始重复，不要碰，不要碰。
No touching, no touching, over and over again.
不碰，不碰，一遍又一遍。
OK, I think it's time [INAUDIBLE] so we can take him out of here.
好的，我想是时候 [听不清] 我们可以带他离开这里。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] [CRYING] Jeremy Raff No touch, no touch, no touch.
[说西班牙语] [哭泣] 杰里米·拉夫 不许碰，不许碰，不许碰。
And you know, while he was saying that, I said, hey, where'd you learn how to say that in English, you know, because he doesn't speak English.
你知道，当他这么说时，我说，嘿，你从哪里学会如何用英语说这个，你知道，因为他不会说英语。
And he said, over there where I was, in the shelter.
他说，就在我所在的避难所里。
We don't actually know a lot of details about what happened to Jenri at BCFS, but that's one of the rules some of the shelters have.
我们实际上并不知道 Jenri 在 BCFS 发生的事情的很多细节，但这是一些庇护所的规则之一。
You can't touch other kids.
你不能碰其他孩子。
The sister told Jeremy she thought Jenri was afraid he was going to be taken away from his mom again.
姐姐告诉杰里米，她认为詹里害怕他会再次被从妈妈身边带走。
And then after things calmed down, about an hour later, I spoke with Anita, and I ran, you know, what I saw by her, and she told me that that's exactly what she thought happened too.
然后事情平静下来，大约一个小时后，我和安妮塔交谈，我跑了，你知道，我在她身上看到了什么，她告诉我，这也正是她认为发生的事情。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nadia Reiman Anita says, Jenri told her, I am not your son anymore.
[西班牙语] 纳迪亚·雷曼·安妮塔 (Nadia Reiman Anita) 说，Jenri 告诉她，我不再是你的儿子了。
He said that he didn't want to sleep there.
他说他不想睡在那里。
He said the lady, the sister, was a bad lady too.
他说这位女士，这位姐姐，也是个坏女人。
The next morning, I met them at the shelter, and Jenri was fine again.
第二天早上，我在避难所见到了他们，Jenri 又好了。
I mean, they said bye to everyone.
我的意思是，他们向所有人道了再见。
He hugged that nun, that same nun that scared him so much.
他拥抱了那个修女，那个让他如此害怕的修女。
He was back to being a regular kid, and Jodi drove them to the airport.
他又变回了一个普通的孩子，乔迪开车送他们去机场。
And it was both of their first time on an airplane, and when we got up into the air, they were looking out the window from the plane, and Anita's telling Jenri, see the river down there, remember when we crossed the river.
这是他们第一次坐飞机，当我们升到空中时，他们正在飞机上看着窗外，安妮塔告诉詹里，看看下面的河流，记住我们什么时候过河的。
Remember that.
请记住这一点。
And look down there, that's where mom was in the detention center.
再往下看，那是妈妈在看守所里的地方。
And they were leaving that behind for the moment.
他们暂时把它抛在脑后。
Jeremy Raft with The Atlantic.
杰里米·拉夫特与《大西洋月刊》。
He's making a documentary about this story.
他正在制作一部关于这个故事的纪录片。
You can watch the trailer at theatlantic.com.
您可以在 theatlantic.com 上观看预告片。
Nadia Reiman is a producer for our show.
纳迪亚·雷曼 (Nadia Reiman) 是我们节目的制片人。
You may remember a few weeks ago, we did a story about another lawyer in Texas, Rochelle Garza, who's trying to get her client out of detention and reunite him with his 12-year-old daughter.
您可能还记得几周前，我们报道了德克萨斯州的另一位律师罗谢尔·加尔萨 (Rochelle Garza)，她试图让她的当事人脱离拘留，并让他与他 12 岁的女儿团聚。
Just the other day, we heard from them.
就在前几天，我们收到了他们的来信。
She was finally able to get the dad out of custody, and he went out to pick up his daughter at the shelter she was at.
她终于让父亲脱离了监护，父亲出去到避难所接女儿。
They're together now and still in this country.
他们现在在一起并且仍在这个国家。
Coming up, a whole part of ICE that does not want to be part of ICE, and what in the world do they do.
接下来，ICE 的一部分不想成为 ICE 的一部分，以及他们到底做了什么。
That's in a minute on Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台稍后将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's show, ICE Capades We have two stories today about the agency, US immigration and Customs Enforcement.
今天的节目，ICE Capades 今天我们有两个关于该机构的故事：美国移民和海关执法局。
ICE is such a big agency and does so many things, prosecutes criminals, goes after terrorists, detains tens of thousands of immigrants.
ICE 是一个如此大的机构，做了很多事情，起诉罪犯，追捕恐怖分子，拘留数以万计的移民。
Sometimes, one part of the agency is actually at odds with the other parts.
有时，该机构的某个部门实际上与其他部门存在矛盾。
You see that in this next act of our program.
您会在我们计划的下一幕中看到这一点。
Act Two, The Iceman Cometh.
第二幕，冰人来了。
Miki Meek has this story of two brothers who tried to turn the tables on somebody who was doing some pretty bad stuff to them.
米基·米克（Miki Meek）讲述了两个兄弟的故事，他们试图扭转局势，对付一个对他们做了一些非常糟糕的事情的人。
The way that ICE is involved will become clear as this unfolds.
随着此事的展开，ICE 的参与方式将会变得清晰。
Here's Miki.
这是米基。
Back in 2012, Christina Corbaci had this meeting that was totally standard, something she'd done hundreds of times, that turned into something she'd never experienced.
早在 2012 年，克里斯蒂娜·科尔巴奇 (Christina Corbaci) 就召开了一次完全标准的会议，她已经做过数百次了，但结果却变成了她从未经历过的事情。
She's an immigration lawyer in Boston.
她是波士顿的一名移民律师。
Two brothers came in, Brigido and Walter, originally from Guatemala.
来自危地马拉的两兄弟进来了，布里吉多和沃尔特。
They were living in the US without papers.
他们住在美国，没有证件。
I think they came in to talk about one of the brothers in particular, to find out what he and his wife, whether they had any options.
我认为他们进来是为了特别谈论其中一位兄弟，了解他和他的妻子的情况，他们是否有任何选择。
It didn't look good.
看起来不太好。
He and his wife both had deportation orders.
他和他的妻子都收到了驱逐令。
Christina told them.
克里斯蒂娜告诉他们。
I doubt that there's any concrete real options for you to legalize your status right now.
我怀疑您现在是否有任何具体的实际选择可以使您的身份合法化。
And then I remember them saying, OK, well, now that we've sort of gotten through this, we want to tell you why we're really here.
然后我记得他们说，好吧，既然我们已经解决了这个问题，我们想告诉你为什么我们真的在这里。
It was a test, and she passed.
这是一次考验，她通过了。
The brothers wanted to see if Christina would be honest about their chances.
兄弟俩想看看克里斯蒂娜是否诚实地对待他们的机会。
There's a whole world of people who prey on undocumented immigrants, tell them they can get them legal status when their cases are impossible.
全世界都有人对无证移民下手，告诉他们可以在不可能的情况下为他们获得合法身份。
It's just a way to take their money.
这只是拿他们钱的一种方式。
Because Christina passed the test, they spilled out the real reason why they were there.
因为克里斯蒂娜通过了测试，他们透露了他们来这里的真正原因。
It was about an immigration official named Patria Zuniga.
这是关于一位名叫帕特里亚·祖尼加 (Patria Zuniga) 的移民官员的故事。
She worked for US citizenship and Immigration Services out of their Miami office.
她在美国公民和移民服务局迈阿密办事处工作。
They met her through a friend, who said great things about Patria.
他们通过一位朋友认识了她，朋友对帕特里亚赞不绝口。
Patria got her legal documents to travel out of the country in return.
作为回报，帕特里亚获得了出国旅行的法律文件。
Patria was helping her whole family get green cards.
帕特里亚正在帮助她的全家获得绿卡。
So they called, and from that first conversation on the phone, Walter said she seemed super competent.
于是他们打电话给沃尔特，从第一次电话交谈中，沃尔特说她看起来非常能干。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter She was familiar with my immigration case.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 她熟悉我的移民案件。
She mentioned the number of times that I had entered the US with a visa.
她提到我持签证进入美国的次数。
She knew how many times my wife had applied for TPS.
她知道我妻子申请了多少次 TPS。
TPS stands for temporary protected status.
TPS 代表临时保护状态。
It's a humanitarian program.
这是一项人道主义计划。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And that gave me trust that she was going to help me.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 这让我相信她会帮助我。
Patria told them their families were eligible for a particular category of green cards, and that she could help fast track their paperwork.
帕特里亚告诉他们，他们的家人有资格获得特定类别的绿卡，并且她可以帮助快速办理他们的文书工作。
But there'd be a cost, $7,000 for the children, and between $10,000 and $11,000 for each adult.
但这是有成本的，儿童为 7,000 美元，成人为 10,000 至 11,000 美元。
The numbers didn't seem crazy to Brigido.
在布里吉多看来，这些数字并不疯狂。
They had lots of fines and violations to clear.
他们有大量的罚款和违规行为需要清理。
But it'd be hard for them to pay all that money upfront.
但他们很难预先支付所有这些钱。
Brigido was a truck driver, and Walter worked construction and ran a small computer repair business.
布里吉多是一名卡车司机，沃尔特从事建筑工作并经营一家小型电脑维修公司。
So Patria agreed to let them pay in installments.
于是Patria同意让他们分期付款。
They used all their savings and started borrowing from family and friends.
他们用尽了所有积蓄，开始向家人和朋友借钱。
And Patria actually drove out to pick up the payments in person.
帕特里亚实际上亲自开车出去领取付款。
They liked her.
他们喜欢她。
She moved here from the Dominican Republic, and became a citizen herself.
她从多米尼加共和国搬到这里，并自己成为公民。
She came across as smart and confident, but also warm and down to earth, a real family person.
她给人的印象是聪明、自信，但也热情、脚踏实地，是一个真正的顾家的人。
She was in her late 40s, and sometimes she brought her two older daughters and grandkid.
她四十多岁了，有时带着两个大女儿和孙子。
Patria told Brigido and Walter their green cards should be ready within three to six months, but then she said they hit some delays and extra fees.
帕特里亚告诉布里吉多和沃尔特，他们的绿卡应该在三到六个月内准备好，但随后她说他们遇到了一些延误和额外费用。
Patria would tell them, I'm going to need another $200 for mailing.
Patria 会告诉他们，我还需要 200 美元用于邮寄。
Oh no, this fine came up on your file.
哦不，这笔罚款出现在你的档案中。
That'll be another $1500.
这将是另外 1500 美元。
They asked for receipts.
他们索要收据。
She said she'd send them and never did.
她说她会把它们寄出去，但从未寄出。
Then she started disappearing for weeks at a time before suddenly popping back up.
然后她开始消失数周，然后突然又出现。
Once, she told Walter that she'd had a heart attack.
有一次，她告诉沃尔特她心脏病发作了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter But as soon as she got out of the hospital, she was going to Miami right away to get the papers.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 但她一出院，就马上去迈阿密拿文件。
They start to wonder if she's ever going to deliver, if they've been scammed.
他们开始怀疑她是否会送货，如果他们被骗了。
Months drag on.
几个月过去了。
It was hard to talk about this with anyone.
很难与任何人谈论这件事。
They felt ashamed for dragging their families into this.
他们为自己把家人卷入这件事感到羞愧。
Walter had even referred one of his friends to Patria.
沃尔特甚至把他的一位朋友推荐给帕特里亚。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I felt uncomfortable with myself, because I thought, how could I have fallen for this.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我对自己感到不舒服，因为我想，我怎么会陷入这个困境。
Patria's phone calls became more aggressive and threatening.
帕特里亚的电话变得更加咄咄逼人和威胁。
She tells them, if they don't turn in all the money fast, she'll cancel their applications.
她告诉他们，如果他们不尽快交出所有钱，她将取消他们的申请。
She'll tell ICE agents where they live.
她会告诉 ICE 探员他们住在哪里。
Walter refuses to give her money.
沃尔特拒绝给她钱。
Brigido still holds out hope that she'll deliver.
布里吉多仍然对她能够实现目标抱有希望。
Going to the police didn't feel like an option, because they were undocumented.
去警察局感觉不是一个选择，因为他们没有证件。
Here's Walter.
这是沃尔特。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter She says, look, If you report me, you're going to be sorry your entire life, because I have but to snap my fingers to deport you or to have you disappeared.
[说西班牙语] 翻译她说，听着，如果你举报我，你会后悔一辈子，因为我只需打个响指就能将你驱逐出境或让你消失。
I kept turning it over and over in my mind, and I said to myself, there's no way out.
我心里一遍又一遍地想，我对自己说，没有办法了。
You failed.
你失败了。
He and his wife both started to crack from stress.
他和他的妻子都因压力而崩溃。
One day, driving on the highway, he blacked out, barely pulled over in time.
有一天，他开车在高速公路上，突然眼前一黑，勉强及时停车。
All along, they were paying Patria in mostly cash.
一直以来，他们主要以现金支付给帕特里亚。
Walter said she told them straight out that the money was for bribes.
沃尔特说，她直接告诉他们这些钱是用来行贿的。
She said she and her bosses in Miami had been helping people out like this for 15 years.
她说她和她在迈阿密的老板们 15 年来一直以这种方式帮助人们摆脱困境。
Walter says this would be totally normal back home in Guatemala, but his brother Brigido, he understood the payments differently.
沃尔特说，这在危地马拉的家乡是完全正常的，但他的兄弟布里吉多对这笔付款有不同的理解。
He thought these were real government fees, though after more than a year, he was fed up.
他认为这些都是真正的政府收费，但一年多后，他已经厌倦了。
He was out nearly $34,000.
他输掉了近 34,000 美元。
Walter was out $28,000.
沃尔特输掉了 28,000 美元。
The two of them, they're very different personalities.
他们两个，性格截然不同。
Walter's talkative, wears his long hair in a ponytail.
沃尔特很健谈，长发扎成马尾辫。
He used to teach at a university in Guatemala, and uses lots of big words when he speaks.
他曾在危地马拉的一所大学任教，讲话时使用大量大词。
Instead of saying, we had to clear our heads, he'll say we were oxygenating our minds.
他不会说我们必须清醒头脑，而是会说我们正在给我们的头脑充氧。
Brigido's more reserved, quieter, but more of a leader.
布里吉多更加内向、安静，但更像是一个领导者。
He's the older brother, and it's Brigido who decided to start an investigation.
他是哥哥，布里吉多决定开始调查。
He found a guy named Rolando, who was sure Patria was about to deliver his papers.
他找到了一个名叫罗兰多的人，他确信帕特里亚即将递交他的论文。
He just had to make one last payment.
他只需要支付最后一笔款项。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter He still owed about $7,000 to Patria.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 他还欠 Patria 约 7,000 美元。
And I asked him, would he be willing for us to try to come up with some evidence.
我问他，他是否愿意让我们尝试拿出一些证据。
And he said yes, and he asked me how to do this.
他说是的，然后他问我该怎么做。
So I said for him not to deliver cash, but money orders.
所以我让他不要送现金，要送汇票。
He had Rolando go to the post office and purchase seven separate money orders, each for $1,000.
他让 Rolando 去邮局购买了 7 张单独的汇票，每张 1,000 美元。
He then sent them to Patria.
然后他把他们送到帕特里亚。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter They should have been cashed by immigration, but instead, her daughters cashed them, and even she cashed in a money order.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 这些钱应该通过移民局兑现，但相反，她的女儿们兑现了，甚至她也用汇票兑现了。
So that made it quite clear that this was a swindle.
所以这很清楚地表明这是一个骗局。
Next, Brigido called a meeting in Worcester, where he lives.
接下来，布里吉多在他居住的伍斯特召开了一次会议。
It's about an hour west of Boston, and has a big Central American community.
它位于波士顿以西约一小时车程处，拥有一个大型中美洲社区。
He put out word through other undocumented immigrants in town that anyone who'd been in touch with Patria should meet him at a public park.
他通过镇上其他无证移民放话，任何与帕特里亚有过接触的人都应该在公园与他见面。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And there were about 40 people who showed up to this meeting in a park.
[西班牙语] 翻译 大约有 40 人参加了在公园举行的这次会议。
This was the moment he realized her scam was much bigger than just him and his brother.
就在这时，他意识到她的骗局比他和他兄弟的骗局要大得多。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I myself was surprised because I met people that I'd never seen before.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 我自己也很惊讶，因为我遇到了以前从未见过的人。
Everyone was afraid.
每个人都很害怕。
We were all afraid.
我们都很害怕。
And at that moment, I felt a lot of contempt for her, for what she had done.
那一刻，我对她、对她所做的事感到非常蔑视。
One woman said she lost $80,000.
一位女士说她损失了 8 万美元。
Other people had taken out high interest loans, second mortgages, or drained their kids' college funds to pay Patria.
其他人则申请了高息贷款、第二抵押贷款，或者耗尽了孩子的大学资金来支付帕特里亚的费用。
Lots of them met her the same way the brothers had, through one of their good friends in Worcester, a woman named Nubi Melendez, who was really close to Patria.
他们中的很多人都像兄弟俩一样认识她，通过他们在伍斯特的一位好朋友，一位名叫努比·梅伦德斯的女人，她与帕特里亚关系非常密切。
People dropped off envelopes of cash for Patria at Nubi's house.
人们把装满现金的信封送到努比家给帕特里亚。
Brigido purposely kept her in the dark about the meeting.
布里吉多故意让她对这次会面一无所知。
He figured she was in on the scam.
他认为她参与了这个骗局。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I said we were all victims of Patria, that there was no doubt about it at that point, and that no one should hand over any more money, because it was a swindle.
[说西班牙语] 翻译我说我们都是帕特里亚的受害者，在这一点上这是毫无疑问的，任何人都不应该再交出任何钱，因为这是一场骗局。
And I wanted to know who would be willing to pursue this to its final consequences.
我想知道谁愿意追究其最终后果。
Everyone said they were.
每个人都说是。
When you say final consequences, what did that mean?
当你说最终后果时，这是什么意思？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter That she might carry out her threats to report us to immigration and have us deported.
[西班牙语] 翻译 她可能会兑现她的威胁，向移民局举报我们，并将我们驱逐出境。
Sure, it was dangerous to go after a corrupt immigration official.
当然，追捕腐败的移民官员是危险的。
But by that point, the feeling was, so what.
但到那时，感觉就是，那又怎样。
Patria had all their information.
帕特里亚掌握了他们的所有信息。
She was probably going to get them deported anyway.
无论如何，她可能会把他们驱逐出境。
Again, here's Walter.
沃尔特又来了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I was not going to stay silent.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我不会保持沉默。
I was going to find a way for that woman to pay for what she had done, because what was the worst that could happen.
我要找到一种方法让那个女人为她所做的事情付出代价，因为最坏的情况可能会发生。
We'd be deported to Guatemala.
我们会被驱逐到危地马拉。
Well, we came to a point where we said, it doesn't matter.
好吧，我们已经到了一个地步，我们说，这并不重要。
And so this is how days later, Brigido and Walter landed in Christina Corbachi's office.
几天后，布里吉多和沃尔特就这样来到了克里斯蒂娜·科尔巴奇的办公室。
At that meeting at the park, everyone decided Brigido should find a lawyer to talk to.
在公园的那次会议上，每个人都决定布里吉多应该找一位律师谈谈。
People started calling him Don Brigido as a sign of their respect.
人们开始称他为唐·布里吉多（Don Brigido），以表达他们的尊重。
So he and Walter went online to research law firms.
于是他和沃尔特上网研究律师事务所。
They chose Christina's because they saw that her boss was a retired immigration judge, they trusted that someone like him would know how to report Patria.
他们选择克里斯蒂娜的原因是他们看到她的老板是一位退休的移民法官，他们相信像他这样的人会知道如何举报帕特里亚。
His name is William Joyce, and he did have a thought for Christina.
他的名字叫威廉·乔伊斯，他确实对克里斯蒂娜有好感。
He was like, hmm, why don't we call ICE.
他说，嗯，我们为什么不打电话给 ICE。
ICE is in a federal building right across the street from the firm in downtown Boston.
ICE 位于波士顿市中心该公司街对面的一栋联邦大楼内。
And that was like the last thing I would have thought of, because to me, that was like, oh, yeah, let's, you know, call ICE on these people who are undocumented.
这就像我最不想想到的事情，因为对我来说，这就像，哦，是的，让我们，你知道，给这些无证人员打电话给 ICE。
Who just showed up because they trusted you.
他们之所以出现是因为他们信任你。
I mean, when he said that, what was going through your head, when he said that?
我的意思是，当他这么说的时候，你脑子里在想什么？
Like, oh, I don't know about that.
就像，哦，我不知道这一点。
I guess my first thought was, like, well, what about the police, right, local police.
我想我的第一个想法是，好吧，警察怎么样，对吧，当地警察。
It just didn't seem that there was any possible way that going directly to ICE, the agency best known for arresting, detaining, and deporting undocumented immigrants, would end well for Brigido and Walter.
对于布里吉多和沃尔特来说，直接向 ICE 这个以逮捕、拘留和驱逐无证移民而闻名的机构似乎没有任何可能的方法。
Even if they got Patria fired and all their money back, wouldn't ICE have to deport them?
即使帕特里亚被解雇并退还所有钱，ICE 是否也必须将他们驱逐出境？
But then Christina's boss told her about a separate division within ICE that most people have never heard of, Homeland Security investigations, or HSI.
但随后克里斯蒂娜的老板告诉她，ICE 内部有一个大多数人从未听说过的独立部门：国土安全调查局 (HSI)。
ICE has two big branches.
ICE 有两大分支。
There's the side that does deportations, and then there's this other branch, HSI, which does other kinds of criminal investigations broadly having to do with national security.
有一个部门负责驱逐出境，还有另一个部门，HSI，负责广泛与国家安全有关的其他类型的刑事调查。
They go after human trafficking, money laundering, MS-13, child pornography, and anyone messing with the immigration system.
他们追查人口贩卖、洗钱、MS-13、儿童色情制品以及任何扰乱移民系统的人。
Last year, they were in the news for helping capture the drug lord, El Chapo.
去年，他们因帮助抓获毒枭“矮子”而登上新闻头条。
HSI is actually the second largest investigative agency after the FBI, with more than 6,000 special agents.
HSI实际上是仅次于FBI的第二大调查机构，拥有6000多名特工。
Anyway, Christina's boss knew some people at HSI and told her, we don't need to give them any personal details now.
不管怎样，克里斯蒂娜的老板认识恒指的一些人，并告诉她，我们现在不需要给他们任何个人信息。
Let me just reach out.
让我伸出手。
And HSI, they got back to them, said sure, we'll send an agent over.
HSI，他们回复了他们，说当然可以，我们会派一名特工过来。
Remember, they're right across the street.
请记住，他们就在街对面。
I didn't know whether I could trust them.
我不知道我是否可以信任他们。
I mean, logically it seemed like we should be able to.
我的意思是，从逻辑上讲，我们似乎应该能够做到。
But it's almost like we were delivering them into their hands.
但这几乎就像我们将它们交付到他们手中一样。
And then, are you guys, is there any formal assurances you're getting from ICE?
那么，你们有从 ICE 得到任何正式的保证吗？
Does anything get signed?
有什么东西可以签吗？
It was all verbal.
一切都是口头的。
Miki Meek That's so nerve wracking.
米基·米克（Miki Meek） 这太让人伤脑筋了。
Yeah.
是的。
Miki Meek The agency promised that they didn't care about anyone's immigration status.
Miki Meek 该机构承诺他们不关心任何人的移民身份。
They just wanted to get more information about Patria's crime.
他们只是想获得更多有关帕特里亚犯罪的信息。
Still, the very idea of meeting with ICE scared off most people from the park.
尽管如此，与 ICE 会面的想法还是吓跑了公园里的大多数人。
Out of that group of 40, only five or six other people said they'd show up with Walter and Brigido.
在这 40 个人中，只有五六个人表示他们会与沃尔特和布里吉多一起出现。
The brothers were terrified too.
兄弟俩也都被吓到了。
Walter had overstayed his visa, and Brigido had a deportation order.
沃尔特的签证过期了，布里吉多收到了驱逐令。
Their wives decide to skip it.
他们的妻子决定跳过它。
So Brigido, Walter and the others showed up early for the meeting.
于是布里吉多、沃尔特等人就早早地到了会议现场。
They sat waiting around a giant conference room table, swiveling nervously in leather chairs on wheels.
他们坐在一张巨大的会议室桌子旁等待，紧张地坐在带轮子的皮椅上。
And then an agent from HSI walked in and introduced himself, a scruffy guy in t-shirt and jeans.
然后一位来自 HSI 的特工走了进来并做了自我介绍，他是一个穿着 T 恤和牛仔裤的邋遢家伙。
Special Agent Robert Rice.
特工罗伯特·赖斯。
I'm an agent with the document and benefit fraud task force.
我是文件和福利欺诈特别工作组的特工。
Agent Rice told me he agreed to the meeting with the lowest possible expectations.
赖斯特工告诉我，他以尽可能低的期望同意了这次会面。
Normally, he did a lot of financial crimes and identity fraud, complex schemes where people were forging documents and lying to the government.
通常情况下，他犯下了很多金融犯罪和身份欺诈，以及伪造文件并向政府撒谎的复杂计划。
He had never done a case like this, and when he strolled in, he didn't actually expect to find people there.
他从来没有办过这样的案子，没想到他走进去的时候，竟然会发现里面有人。
I've never seen anything like it.
我从来没有见过这样的事情。
These were for the most part, undocumented aliens.
这些人大部分都是无证外国人。
They don't come running to law enforcement, especially Homeland Security investigations.
他们不会跑去参加执法部门，特别是国土安全部的调查。
So this was completely-- and I've been doing this for 21 years now, so I was just so curious, wanting to see who were these people, and what did they have to say.
所以这完全是——我已经这样做了 21 年了，所以我很好奇，想看看这些人是谁，他们都说了些什么。
What are you doing to put people at ease?
你正在做什么让人们放心？
I began my career as a border patrol agent in Douglas, Arizona.
我的职业生涯始于亚利桑那州道格拉斯的边境巡逻人员。
So I think I know what was going through their heads.
所以我想我知道他们脑子里在想什么。
I thought they were afraid of me.
我以为他们害怕我。
Now, I wanted to, right off the bat I wanted to end that.
现在，我想立即结束这一切。
So in some pretty bad Spanish, he attempted to make a joke about ICE, although he couldn't remember the Spanish for me.
因此，他试图用一些非常糟糕的西班牙语来开 ICE 的玩笑，尽管他不记得我的西班牙语了。
I was like, you know, we're not coming here, we're not parking the vans out front.
我当时想，你知道，我们不会来这里，我们不会把货车停在前面。
We're not going to stand there with nets trying to jump you and drag you out of the country.
我们不会站在那儿，用网试图把你跳下去，把你拖出这个国家。
And everyone laughed at that.
大家都笑了。
Again, here is Brigido.
布里吉多又来了。
Brigido [SPEAKING SPANISH]
布里吉多 [西班牙语]
We all laughed.
我们都笑了。
Miki Meek It's such a weird scene.
Miki Meek 这真是一个奇怪的场景。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Well, it was a surprise, but at the same time, it broke the ice.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 嗯，这是一个惊喜，但同时也打破了僵局。
Yeah.
是的。
Miki Meek Agent Rice's job is to enforce the laws on the books.
米基·米克 (Miki Meek) 赖斯探员的工作是执行书面法律。
A crime is a crime, no matter the legal status of the victims.
犯罪就是犯罪，无论受害者的法律地位如何。
He told them--
他告诉他们——
I don't care what your status is, I'm here to help you.
我不管你的处境如何，我都是来帮助你的。
I want to know, just tell me what happened to you, what are the allegations you're making.
我想知道，请告诉我你发生了什么事，你提出了什么指控。
And that's how we proceeded.
我们就是这样进行的。
What kind of assurances can you give and can you not give to a group of people like this?
对于这样的一群人，你能给予什么保证，又不能给予什么呢？
We never promise anything, but none of these people had criminal records, and so I had prosecutorial discretion to not enforce immigration laws.
我们从不承诺任何事情，但这些人都没有犯罪记录，所以我有起诉自由裁量权不执行移民法。
He says he still has this discretion today, even though so much has changed in the agency under President Trump and so many more people are being deported.
他说，尽管特朗普总统领导下的该机构发生了很大变化，并且有越来越多的人被驱逐出境，但他今天仍然拥有这种自由裁量权。
That first meeting at the law firm was short, less than an hour, and Rice says he purposely kept it informal.
律师事务所的第一次会议很短，不到一个小时，赖斯说他故意保持非正式会议。
He didn't even write down names, in case it spooked anyone.
他甚至没有写下名字，以免吓到任何人。
But he did want Brigido, Walter and the others to know they could trust him.
但他确实希望布里吉多、沃尔特和其他人知道他们可以信任他。
So he took out his HSI badge and passed it around the table.
于是他拿出恒生指数徽章，在桌子周围传递。
Walter remembers holding it and and Rice telling them--
沃尔特记得拿着它，赖斯告诉他们——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Take it.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 拿着。
Feel it.
感受一下。
Examine it.
检查一下。
This is legal.
这是合法的。
Did she show you something like that?
她给你看过类似的东西吗？
And I said no.
我说不。
Brigido and Rolando showed Rice the money order receipts.
布里吉多和罗兰多向赖斯展示了汇票收据。
Rice was impressed, but it wasn't enough for a federal case.
赖斯对此印象深刻，但这还不足以提起联邦案件。
He needed way more evidence.
他需要更多的证据。
And he needed to understand the extent of the crime.
他需要了解犯罪的严重程度。
Fairly quickly, he was able to verify that Patria did not work for US Citizenship and Immigration Services, in Miami or anywhere else.
很快，他就证实帕特里亚没有在迈阿密或其他任何地方的美国公民和移民服务局工作。
She was an imposter.
她是个冒名顶替者。
All that paperwork she was supposed to be filing for them, none of it existed in the system.
她应该为他们归档的所有文件，系统中都不存在。
Walter and Brigido were outraged and embarrassed that they'd been tricked so badly.
沃尔特和布里吉多对自己被如此严重的欺骗感到愤怒和尴尬。
Agent Rice visited Patria, who denied knowing any of the victims, said she didn't know what they were talking about.
赖斯特工拜访了帕特里亚，帕特里亚否认认识任何受害者，并表示她不知道他们在谈论什么。
Next, Rice needed to track down as many victims as he could.
接下来，赖斯需要尽可能多地追踪受害者。
The fact that most people paid in cash was a huge hurdle for the case.
大多数人以现金支付的事实是此案的一个巨大障碍。
He hoped he'd find someone who saved some kind of corroborating documentation, contracts, receipts, bank deposit slips, tax, e-mails, audio recordings, and that they'd talk to him.
他希望他能找到一个保存了某种证实文件、合同、收据、银行存款单、税务、电子邮件、录音的人，并希望他们能与他交谈。
So there was no record trail, and that was the scariest part.
所以没有记录线索，这是最可怕的部分。
It's just, a lot of it we couldn't prove.
只是，很多我们无法证明。
And I was literally chasing people all over the place.
我真的是到处追人。
They wouldn't answer my phone calls, wouldn't answer the door.
他们不接我的电话，也不开门。
Wanted nothing to do with me.
不想跟我有任何关系。
You feel the tension, and that was constant.
你会感觉到紧张，而且这种紧张是持续存在的。
That was tough.
那很艰难。
They look at you as being like, you are too big of a threat for me to get into this.
他们对你的看法是，你对我来说威胁太大了，无法介入。
They're still afraid of me as an immigration officer.
他们仍然害怕我这个移民官。
The fear of being deported and being separated from their family outweighed any benefit that they thought they could've received.
对被驱逐出境和与家人分离的恐惧超过了他们认为可以获得的任何好处。
This is why it's so hard to crack down on scammers who victimize undocumented immigrants.
这就是为什么打击那些伤害无证移民的骗子如此困难的原因。
They're the perfect victims, desperate for help and not likely to go to law enforcement, much less stick around for years to testify at a trial.
他们是完美的受害者，迫切需要帮助，不太可能去执法部门，更不用说多年来在审判中出庭作证了。
So these scams are pervasive.
所以这些骗局非常普遍。
Rice held two more meetings at the law office, and more people from the park showed up.
赖斯在律师事务所又开了两次会议，公园里的人也越来越多。
And Rice asked Brigido and Walter to reach out to the other people they knew, and call them right before he did.
赖斯要求布里吉多和沃尔特联系他们认识的其他人，并在他之前给他们打电话。
And they would say like, no, he's helping us, he's not arresting anybody.
他们会说，不，他是在帮助我们，他没有逮捕任何人。
So they really helped me.
所以他们真的帮助了我。
They really opened the door for me, and this whole subculture of Worcester, of this Central American community.
他们确实为我以及伍斯特这个中美洲社区的整个亚文化打开了大门。
I depended on them, just little things that couldn't have been accomplished by myself.
我依赖他们，只是一些我自己无法完成的小事。
This was the beginning of an unlikely partnership, a partnership that was improbable then and even more improbable now.
这是一种不太可能的伙伴关系的开始，这种伙伴关系在当时是不可能的，现在更不可能。
ICE, the agency that in the last months has been part of the zero tolerance policy, the agency that immigration activists are now calling to be abolished completely, they were going to team up with a group of undocumented immigrants.
ICE，这个在过去几个月一直是零容忍政策一部分的机构，移民活动人士现在呼吁彻底废除这个机构，他们将与一群无证移民合作。
Brigido told me there were lots of people who didn't want an ICE agent to stop by their house and sit in their living room, who didn't want to set foot in ICE's office in Boston.
布里吉多告诉我，有很多人不希望 ICE 特工来到他们家并坐在客厅里，他们不想踏入 ICE 位于波士顿的办公室。
So Brigido organized a workaround.
因此布里吉多组织了一个解决方法。
It was a hair salon in Worcester.
那是伍斯特的一家发廊。
The owner was also a victim, and said sure.
店主也是受害者，他说当然可以。
You can use my place.
你可以用我的地方。
Rice met with people there.
赖斯在那里会见了人们。
Initially, she would close it up, and we would all meet in the back.
最初，她会把门关上，我们都在后面见面。
And then later on, I mean, next thing, I became close to-- everyone knew me.
后来，我的意思是，接下来的事情，我变得接近——每个人都认识我。
The whole street knew who I was.
整条街的人都知道我是谁。
And they'd still be cutting hair or doing dyes, or doing nails, and I'd be meeting people in the back.
他们仍然在理发、染发或做指甲，而我会在后面与人们会面。
I'm making it convenient for them.
我正在为他们提供方便。
I mean, this is my job.
我的意思是，这是我的工作。
I have all day.
我有一整天的时间。
I had all day, almost like 900 days in a row, I was driving back and forth to Worcester and wherever.
我有一整天的时间，几乎连续 900 天，我开车来回伍斯特和任何地方。
For 2 and 1/2 years, he met people at construction sites and fast food joints when they were on breaks from their jobs, other times in random parking lots.
在 2又 1/2 的时间里，他在建筑工地和快餐店遇到了工作休息时间的人们，其他时间则在随机的停车场。
Walter and Brigido didn't know lots of the victims, so Rice had to cold call them.
沃尔特和布里吉多并不认识很多受害者，因此赖斯不得不给他们打电话。
Knock on the door, hi, how you doing, with a badge.
敲门，嗨，你好吗，有徽章。
And it's instant.
而且是即时的。
You only have a short window to--
你只有很短的时间——
How short?
多短？
Robert Rice Well, you're talking minutes, I mean, to be, don't worry, you know, I'm not here-- You know, when you're doing this to somebody, and they're undocumented, and I was like, I explained to them, I'm not here for your immigration status.
罗伯特·赖斯：嗯，你说的是几分钟，我的意思是，别担心，你知道，我不在这里——你知道，当你对某人这样做时，他们没有证件，我就想，我向他们解释，我来这里不是为了你的移民身份。
I want to talk to you about, were you a victim of this person, did you give this person money.
我想和你谈谈，你是这个人的受害者吗，你给过这个人钱吗？
When you said Patria's Zuniga to these people, that was for a second at least, I mean, you could see it in their eyes, and they knew where I was going.
当你对这些人说帕特里亚的祖尼加时，至少有一秒钟，我的意思是，你可以从他们的眼睛里看到它，他们知道我要去哪里。
It seems, kind of more often than not, really, they're willing to talk.
看起来，实际上，他们往往愿意交谈。
They wanted to talk.
他们想谈谈。
And you know, the first thing that struck me was, they're all over the place.
你知道，让我震惊的第一件事是，它们无处不在。
They're in Worcester, they're in Lynn, they're in parts of Boston, they're in Framingham.
他们在伍斯特，他们在林恩，他们在波士顿的部分地区，他们在弗雷明汉。
We're talking hundreds of square miles where they were located, and the stories never changed.
我们谈论的是他们所在的数百平方英里的地方，而故事从未改变。
If one person said, I met them on this occasion, and this is how much money.
如果一个人说，我这次遇见了他们，这就是多少钱。
I mean, the money amount never changed.
我的意思是，金额从未改变。
The dates never changed.
日期从未改变。
Everything was consistent.
一切都是一致的。
And that goes towards trustworthiness as far as I'm concerned.
就我而言，这有助于提高可信度。
Still, he wasn't getting much hard documentary evidence.
尽管如此，他还是没有得到太多确凿的书面证据。
If Patria had filed fraudulent green card applications with the government, they could charge her with immigration fraud, but her scheme never went that far.
如果帕特里亚向政府提交了欺诈性绿卡申请，他们可以指控她移民欺诈，但她的计划从未走得那么远。
So he had to look for a financial crime.
所以他必须寻找经济犯罪。
But this was tough, because Patria had no bank account.
但这很困难，因为帕特里亚没有银行账户。
Her two daughters did, and Rice did see a lot of cash deposits, but he couldn't trace them back to specific payments that immigrants made to Patria.
她的两个女儿做到了，赖斯确实看到了大量现金存款，但他无法追溯到移民向帕特里亚支付的具体付款。
I spent so much time tracking people down, and they dug through their records and their memories, and at the end of the day, they weren't good witnesses because they had nothing but, they were just telling me that, you know, they gave money to her.
我花了很多时间追踪人们，他们挖掘了他们的记录和记忆，到最后，他们不是好证人，因为他们什么都没有，但他们只是告诉我，你知道，他们给了她钱。
They had nothing, they didn't have a receipt for you.
他们什么都没有，也没有给你收据。
They didn't have any documentation.
他们没有任何文件。
No documentation.
没有文档。
Miki Meek There was one person in particular Rice wanted to get to, the woman who people saw as Patria's co-conspirator, Nubi Melendez.
米基·米克（Miki Meek） 赖斯特别想联系一个人，那就是被人们视为帕特里亚（Patria）同谋的女人努比·梅伦德斯（Nubi Melendez）。
Her house was like a base for Patria in Worcester.
她的房子就像帕特里亚在伍斯特的基地。
Patria met with people there.
帕特里亚在那里会见了人们。
She told people to leave their money with Nubi when she couldn't come to town.
当她不能进城时，她告诉人们把钱留给努比。
When it came time to confront Nubi, Agent Rice went to her house and sat in the driveway and waited.
当需要面对努比时，赖斯特工去了她家，坐在车道上等待。
She was just coming back.
她刚刚回来。
She just picked up her daughter from school and she was walking home.
她刚刚接女儿放学，正步行回家。
And then all of the sudden, there's HSI agents in your driveway.
然后突然之间，HSI 探员就出现在你的车道上。
And I was like, I'd like to ask some questions about Patria Zuniga.
我想，我想问一些关于 Patria Zuniga 的问题。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Miki Meek This is Nubi.
[说西班牙语] Miki Meek 这是 Nubi。
And they said, are you Nubi Melendez.
他们说，你是努比·梅伦德斯吗？
My heart jumped out of me, practically.
我的心几乎要跳出来了。
Who did you think he was?
你以为他是谁？
Nubi Melendez [SPEAKING SPANISH]
Nubi Melendez [西班牙语]
I don't know.
我不知道。
His appearance had lots of tattoos.
他的外表上有很多纹身。
I'm not the tall white guy with a flat top wearing the suit, and you can see I'm unshaven.
我不是那个穿着西装的高个子平顶白人，你可以看到我没有刮胡子。
You got a goatee.
你有山羊胡。
Robert Rice I have tattoos.
罗伯特·赖斯 我有纹身。
My government car's a Saturn.
我的政府车是土星。
Basically, a soccer mom car.
基本上，是一辆足球妈妈车。
I want to look like just the guy on the street.
我想看起来就像街上的那个人。
I got to admit, I was amused when Nubi told me that his guy on the street strategy backfired with her at first.
我必须承认，当努比告诉我他的街头策略一开始对她适得其反时，我很有趣。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter To me, he looked like a bad guy, a bad dude, but he's everything but that.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 对我来说，他看起来像一个坏人，一个坏人，但他又不是那样。
Little by little, he started gaining our trust.
渐渐地，他开始赢得我们的信任。
Turns out, Nubi was not Patria's partner in crime.
事实证明，努比并不是帕特里亚的犯罪同伙。
She, like all the others, was being ripped off.
她和其他人一样，都被敲诈了。
I mean, at the end of the day, she was a victim probably more so than anybody else.
我的意思是，归根结底，她可能比其他任何人都更成为受害者。
Because not only did she lose all of her money, she lost all of her friends.
因为她不仅失去了所有的钱，还失去了所有的朋友。
Patria had used Nubi as a launch pad to get to all her family and friends in Worcester.
帕特里亚（Patria）利用努比（Nubi）作为联系她在伍斯特的所有家人和朋友的发射台。
They had met through a coworker at McDonald's, and they got really close, or Nubi thought so, anyway.
他们是通过麦当劳的同事认识的，而且关系非常亲密，至少努比是这么认为的。
Patria came to her family parties, called all the time just to check in, and visited Nubi in the hospital when she was sick.
帕特里亚（Patria）参加她的家庭聚会，一直打电话询问情况，并在努比（Nubi）生病时去医院看望她。
Nubi had even started thinking about making her the godmother of her son, which is why she felt comfortable introducing her to so many people in Worcester.
努比甚至开始考虑让她成为儿子的教母，这就是为什么她很乐意将她介绍给伍斯特的这么多人。
And the reason Nubi was collecting envelopes of cash for Patria, she told Rice it was because Patria had asked her to.
努比之所以为帕特里亚收集现金信封，她告诉赖斯，这是因为帕特里亚要求她这样做。
Said, if you do me this favor, I'll give your family a good discount on her fees.
说，如果你帮我这个忙，我会给你家人很大的学费折扣。
So Nubi did it.
于是努比就这么做了。
But like the others, Nubi's family never got the green cards from Patria they were promised.
但和其他人一样，努比的家人从未获得帕特里亚承诺的绿卡。
One time, they seemed really close.
有一次，他们看起来真的很亲密。
Patria told her, the one for your little sister Alba is ready.
帕特里亚告诉她，给你妹妹阿尔巴的那个已经准备好了。
Just come up to the immigration office in Boston and pick it up.
只需前往波士顿的移民办公室领取即可。
Nubi and the whole family got dressed up, drove up to the office and waited outside like Patria had instructed them.
努比和全家人都穿好衣服，开车到办公室，按照帕特里亚的指示在外面等着。
Someone was supposed to come get them.
应该有人来接他们。
Here's Nubi's little sister Alba.
这是努比的妹妹阿尔芭。
She was in high school at the time.
当时她正在上高中。
We were there from the afternoon until I remember it being dark, and I'm like, we're still waiting here.
我们从下午就在那里，直到我记得天已经黑了，我想，我们还在这儿等。
I just kept, call her, call her, what's going on.
我只是不停地给她打电话，给她打电话，到底发生了什么事。
But she don't answer.
但她没有回答。
No, she never showed up.
不，她从来没有出现过。
Miki Meek Patria did this to other people too.
米基·米克·帕特里亚（Miki Meek Patria）也对其他人做过这样的事。
One guy actually flew all the way out to the immigration office in Chicago, and the same thing.
实际上，有一个人一路飞到了芝加哥的移民办公室，同样的事情。
No one showed up.
没有人出现。
As always, Patria had an excuse.
一如既往，帕特里亚有一个借口。
But Alba, the teenager, was done.
但少年阿尔巴已经完蛋了。
Obama had just signed the executive order that created DACA, and because Alba had been brought into the country when she was just a kid, she was eligible.
奥巴马刚刚签署了设立 DACA 的行政命令，而且由于阿尔巴在她还是个孩子的时候就被带入美国，所以她符合资格。
Patria told her not to apply.
帕特里亚告诉她不要申请。
She told me, if you go for that, that I could possibly be deported because I'm already filing paperwork that's already ending, and me starting another paperwork could cause a problem.
她告诉我，如果你这么做，我可能会被驱逐出境，因为我已经在提交已经结束的文件，而我开始另一份文件可能会引起问题。
So I'm like, I'm not changing my mind.
所以我想，我不会改变主意。
I'm filing for it, and I don't care.
我正在申请，我不在乎。
Alba did get DACA status, and right away, her family saw a big difference from the way things had been going with Patria.
阿尔巴确实获得了 DACA 身份，很快，她的家人就看到了与帕特里亚的情况有很大不同。
There were regular updates from the US government, official documents arriving in the mail, things they never got from Patria.
美国政府会定期更新情况，邮寄官方文件，但他们从未从帕特里亚那里得到过这些东西。
So when Agent Rice showed up at their house, Alba and Nubi were more than willing to help.
因此，当赖斯特工出现在他们家时，阿尔巴和努比非常愿意提供帮助。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I knew that I had to say what had happened even if it had been bad.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我知道我必须说出发生的事情，即使事情很糟糕。
I had to say how it had happened.
我不得不说出这是怎么发生的。
She says the guilt was intense.
她说愧疚感很强烈。
People were shunning her in town, and calling her all the time to yell at her.
镇上的人们都避开她，并一直打电话给她对她大喊大叫。
She switched to English here.
她在这里改用英语。
Nubi became a central witness, and she gave Rice some important leads.
努比成为核心证人，她为赖斯提供了一些重要线索。
One time when Rice was at her house, Nubi's phone rang, and it was Patria.
有一次，赖斯在她家，努比的电话响了，是帕特里亚打来的。
Rice had a recording device with him, and so they taped the call.
赖斯随身携带录音设备，因此他们对通话进行了录音。
Brigido also started taping calls and giving them to Rice.
布里吉多也开始录音并交给赖斯。
In this call, Patria is pushing Brigido's wife for more money.
在这次电话中，帕特里亚向布里吉多的妻子要求更多的钱。
Patria talks to her, though, like she's her friend, just trying to help her out.
不过，帕特里亚就像她的朋友一样与她交谈，只是想帮助她摆脱困境。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Miki Meek She's saying, I know how much this means to you, and it would hurt me to see you throw it all away now after you've come so far.
[说西班牙语] Miki Meek 她说，我知道这对你来说有多重要，在你走了这么远之后，看到你现在把它全部扔掉，我会很伤心。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Miki Meek Patria insinuates that Nubi is the one taking everyone's payments for herself.
[说西班牙语] Miki Meek Patria 暗示 Nubi 是拿走所有人付款的人。
She says in a confidential tone, I don't trust Nubi.
她用保密的语气说，我不信任努比。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Miki Meek Nubi, Brigido and Walter all said one of the scariest parts of the investigation was having to keep up a front so long with Patria.
[西班牙语] 米基·米克·努比 (Miki Meek Nubi)、布里吉多 (Brigido) 和沃尔特 (Walter) 都表示，调查中最可怕的部分之一是必须与帕特里亚 (Patria) 保持这么长时间的对抗。
They were told not to confirm her suspicions that she was the target of a federal investigation, not while Agent Rice was still gathering evidence.
他们被告知不要证实她的怀疑，即她是联邦调查的目标，而不是在赖斯特工仍在收集证据的时候。
And so when Patria harassed them and threatened them, they had to just play along, telling her, we just need a little more time to get the money.
因此，当帕特里亚骚扰并威胁他们时，他们只能配合，告诉她，我们只是需要多一点时间才能拿到钱。
No, we're not helping law enforcement.
不，我们没有帮助执法部门。
To finally indict Patria, Rice and government prosecutors needed to present their evidence to multiple grand juries.
为了最终起诉帕特里亚，赖斯和政府检察官需要向多个大陪审团提供证据。
He delivered subpoenas to Brigido, Nubi, and Walter, who was in the middle of working a job at a construction site when he pulled up.
他向布里吉多、努比和沃尔特发出了传票，当他停车时，沃尔特正在建筑工地工作。
They all knew this was coming.
他们都知道这一切即将到来。
Rice reminded them, this wasn't a suggestion.
赖斯提醒他们，这不是建议。
This was a court order.
这是法庭命令。
This was real.
这是真的。
Rice said some of the government attorneys he was working with at the time thought this might be the moment when their case would fall apart.
赖斯说，当时与他合作的一些政府律师认为，这可能是他们的案件失败的时刻。
The first prosecutor, she did not believe they were going to show up.
第一检察官，她不相信他们会出现。
She thought they were all going to disappear.
她以为他们都会消失。
Undocumented aliens do not have a long track record of showing up for grand jury, and that was always, always, that was constant.
无证外国人没有长期出席大陪审团的记录，而且这种情况一直、一直、一直如此。
Are they going to disappear?
他们会消失吗？
Can we maintain this relationship?
我们能维持这种关系吗？
Can I maintain this relationship?
我能维持这段关系吗？
Brigido had to trust him too.
布里吉多也必须信任他。
When he got the subpoena, he had a talk with his wife and kids about what might happen.
当他收到传票时，他与妻子和孩子讨论了可能发生的情况。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Well, as a joke, I said that if I didn't come back, we'd see each other over there.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 好吧，作为一个笑话，我说如果我不回来，我们就会在那里见面。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter But in a more serious way, the sentiment was that everything might suddenly flip, and we'd all be arrested.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 但从更严肃的角度来说，人们的情绪是一切可能会突然发生逆转，我们都会被捕。
It's hard to overstate how weird this whole thing was for them.
很难夸大这整件事对他们来说有多么奇怪。
They trusted Agent Rice.
他们信任赖斯特工。
They knew he'd wait outside the courthouse and walk them in.
他们知道他会在法院外等候并送他们进去。
But Brigido told me they still had this fear that Patria might actually have some connections in immigration.
但布里吉多告诉我，他们仍然担心帕特里亚实际上可能在移民方面有一些联系。
Maybe it was a trap.
也许这是一个陷阱。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter On the other hand, there was courage, because that woman, when we recalled everything she had stolen from us, we felt renewed courage to push ahead so that she would pay the consequences.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 另一方面，有勇气，因为那个女人，当我们回想起她从我们那里偷走的一切时，我们感到有新的勇气继续前进，以便她承担后果。
They went into the grand jury room by themselves, and they sat there by themselves.
他们自己走进大陪审团室，自己坐在那里。
They did it.
他们做到了。
I can't say enough.
我不能说足够。
I was proud of them.
我为他们感到骄傲。
The grand jury voted yes for federal prosecutors to move forward with investigating fraud charges against Patria Zuniga.
大陪审团投票赞成联邦检察官继续调查帕特里亚·祖尼加的欺诈指控。
And Rice had other breakthroughs.
赖斯还有其他突破。
He subpoenaed a ton of financial records, and found the names of new victims, people who paid through Western Union or bank deposits rather than cash like so many others, and who actually saved their receipts.
他传唤了大量的财务记录，找到了新受害者的名字，这些人通过西联汇款或银行存款而不是像其他许多人一样使用现金付款，并且实际上保存了收据。
Rice finally had what he needed to make a proper paper trail.
赖斯终于拥有了制作适当的书面记录所需的一切。
All of the he said, she said, became, good god, look at the amounts of money.
她说，他所说的一切都变成了，天哪，看看有多少钱。
That's when, you know, the light bulb, the proverbial light bulb went off, and I was like wow, this is real.
就在那时，你知道，灯泡，众所周知的灯泡熄灭了，我就像哇，这是真的。
The total amount Patria stole was startling, more than $700,000.
帕特里亚偷窃的总金额令人震惊，超过 70 万美元。
And that was just from the victims who were willing to come forward.
而这只是那些愿意挺身而出的受害者。
Even more surprising is where the money went.
更令人惊讶的是钱的去向。
Patria, it turns out, was a huge gambler.
事实证明，帕特里亚是一个大赌徒。
There were records of her losing over $175,000 on slot machines at a Rhode Island casino.
据记录，她在罗德岛州一家赌场的老虎机上输了超过 175,000 美元。
The rest of it was spent by her daughters on vacations, cell phone bills, Dunkin' Donuts.
剩下的钱都被她的女儿们花在了度假、手机账单、唐恩都乐（Dunkin' Donuts）上。
Nobody was getting their money back.
没有人拿回他们的钱。
In fact, lots of them are still paying off bank loans and relatives they'd borrowed from.
事实上，他们中的许多人仍在偿还银行贷款和向亲戚借的钱。
Agent Rice and his team went in for the arrest.
赖斯特工和他的团队参与了逮捕行动。
Rice says if she was surprised, she didn't show it.
赖斯说，即使她感到惊讶，她也没有表现出来。
You know, I went over and knocked on the door, and the door opens, and Patria's standing there, and she looks at me and she goes, hello, Rice.
你知道，我走过去敲门，门打开了，帕特里亚站在那里，她看着我，然后说，你好，赖斯。
[LAUGHS] Just like that.
[笑]就像这样。
She pled guilty to eight counts of federal wire fraud.
她承认八项联邦电汇欺诈罪。
That's eventually what they got her on.
这就是他们最终让她穿上的。
Her daughters were arrested too.
她的女儿们也被捕了。
Probably the most moving day of this whole story came on June 28, 2016, the day that Patria Zuniga was finally sentenced, about four years after Brigido and the others met up in the park and decided to take her down.
整个故事中最感人的一天可能是 2016 年 6 月 28 日，这一天帕特里亚·祖尼加 (Patria Zuniga) 最终被判刑，大约四年前，布里吉多 (Brigido) 和其他人在公园相遇并决定将她打倒。
It happened in the federal courthouse in Worcester, the epicenter for the whole thing.
事情发生在伍斯特联邦法院，整个事件的中心。
The assistant US attorney who prosecuted the case, Jordi de Llano, encouraged them to come to the sentencing.
起诉此案的美国助理检察官乔迪·德亚诺鼓励他们前来宣判。
If they wanted, they could stand up in court and read a statement to the judge, explaining how much Patria had harmed them.
如果他们愿意，他们可以在法庭上站起来，向法官宣读一份声明，解释帕特里亚对他们的伤害有多大。
The judge is allowed to take that into consideration when deciding the sentence.
法官在判决时可以考虑这一点。
Around 8:00 in the morning, I started getting calls from downstairs saying there are a lot of people here that don't speak English.
早上 8:00 左右，我开始接到楼下的电话，说这里有很多人不会说英语。
And I went downstairs and I was taken aback.
我下了楼，我大吃一惊。
I was floored with how many people showed up.
我对有这么多人出现感到震惊。
It was the victims, their family members.
这是受害者，他们的家人。
They brought children.
他们带来了孩子。
They brought babies.
他们带来了婴儿。
In total, 57 people, almost all undocumented or with temporary status, agreed to have their names listed as victims for the government.
总共有 57 人同意将自己的名字列为政府的受害者，他们几乎都是无证或临时身份。
I wasn't allowed to record in the courthouse, but I was there for this, and the scene was powerful.
我不被允许在法院录音，但我就是为了这个而存在的，而且场景很震撼。
Families streamed in dressed up in pressed white shirts, slacks and skirts, carrying with them statements that they'd prepared in advance.
家人涌入，穿着熨烫过的白衬衫、休闲裤和裙子，带着提前准备好的声明。
Teenagers came to speak on behalf of their parents in English.
青少年代表父母用英语发言。
They came to support each other as well as to share their stories.
他们互相支持并分享他们的故事。
That was a packed house.
那是一间挤满了人的房子。
It was standing room only, I think, in that courtroom, and it went on for about eight hours.
我想，那个法庭里只有站着的地方，而且持续了大约八个小时。
It was moving in the sense that I know how difficult it was for them to come and speak.
从某种意义上说，这很令人感动，因为我知道他们过来讲话是多么困难。
There were people in the courtroom that Brigido had never met before.
法庭上有一些布里吉多以前从未见过的人。
He told me that seeing so many people who'd fallen for Patria's scheme in one place, it helped take away some of the shame and embarrassment about what had happened.
他告诉我，看到这么多人在一个地方落入帕特里亚的阴谋，这有助于消除一些对所发生的事情的羞耻和尴尬。
Patria sat at a table in front of them wearing a blue jumpsuit and looking down at the ground.
帕特里亚穿着蓝色连身裤坐在他们前面的一张桌子旁，低头看着地面。
The judge asked her if she wanted to give a statement.
法官问她是否愿意发表陈述。
She stood up.
她站了起来。
She asked for forgiveness from the court and her family.
她请求法庭和家人的原谅。
But when it became clear that she wasn't going to ask forgiveness from all the victims sitting right behind her, her lawyer jumped in and cut her off.
但当她清楚地意识到她不会向坐在她身后的所有受害者请求宽恕时，她的律师介入并打断了她。
The judge sentenced Patria to six and a half years.
法官判处帕特里亚六年半徒刑。
The daughters were later sentenced to almost three years.
女儿们后来被判处近三年徒刑。
Brigido and Walter wished they'd all gotten more.
布里吉多和沃尔特希望他们都能得到更多。
I asked the brothers and Nubi, if Patria's crime had happened to them today, would they still work with ICE.
我问兄弟俩和努比，如果帕特里亚的罪行今天发生在他们身上，他们还会与 ICE 合作吗？
They said they'd think twice about it, but yeah, they'd do it again.
他们说他们会三思而后行，但是，是的，他们会再做一次。
They're not so sure how many others would come forward, though.
不过，他们不太确定还有多少人会挺身而出。
Here's Brigido.
这是布里吉多。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter If it were today, it would be difficult, because people wouldn't have the same degree of trust they had before.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 如果是在今天，那就会很困难，因为人们不会像以前那样拥有同样程度的信任。
It's a different point in time, and things don't seem the same, don't look the same, as years ago.
现在是不同的时间点，事情看起来不一样了，看起来和几年前不一样了。
This is a point top agents in Rice's division, Homeland Security Investigations, is making today, too.
这也是赖斯所在部门国土安全调查部的高级特工今天正在提出的一个观点。
Last month, around the same time protests over the Trump administration's zero tolerance policy at the border erupted around the country, the head of 19 different regional offices from HSI sent a letter to Kirstjen Nielsen, the Secretary of Homeland Security.
上个月，大约在全国各地爆发针对特朗普政府边境零容忍政策的抗议活动的同时，HSI 19 个不同地区办事处的负责人致函国土安全部部长 Kirstjen Nielsen。
They basically asked for a divorce from ICE.
他们基本上要求与 ICE 离婚。
They don't want to be associated with deportations anymore.
他们不想再与驱逐出境联系在一起。
It's making it too hard for them to do their jobs.
这让他们很难完成自己的工作。
They wrote, quote, "the perception of HSI's investigative independence is unnecessarily impacted by the political nature of ERO's civil immigration enforcement." ERO is enforcement and removal operations.
他们写道，“人们对 HSI 调查独立性的看法不必要地受到 ERO 民事移民执法的政治性质的影响。” ERO 是执法和清除行动。
Many jurisdictions continue to refuse to work with HSI because of a perceived linkage to the politics of civil immigration.
许多司法管辖区继续拒绝与 HSI 合作，因为人们认为这与公民移民政治有联系。
When this case ended, everyone had to revert back to their original roles.
当这个案子结束后，大家都得回到原来的角色。
Rice, after all, was an ICE agent.
毕竟，赖斯是一名 ICE 特工。
He says it's not really appropriate for him to socialize with anyone who's undocumented outside of an investigation.
他说，他在调查之外与任何无证人员交往是不太合适的。
To be honest with you, I was a little sad.
老实说，我有点难过。
It was a big part of my life for a long time, and it's now over.
很长一段时间以来，它一直是我生活的重要组成部分，但现在已经结束了。
I got used to constant back and forth to Worcester.
我习惯了不断地往返于伍斯特。
As time evolved, we joked around.
随着时间的推移，我们开玩笑。
They made fun of me.
他们取笑我。
They teased me.
他们取笑我。
I teased them.
我取笑他们。
It really was a friendship, you know.
这确实是一种友谊，你知道。
They opened up their heart, their lives to me, and who am I, I'm just a government hack.
他们向我敞开了心扉，敞开了自己的生活，而我是谁，我只是一个政府黑客。
And how would you describe your relationship with Brigido and Walter?
您如何形容您与布里吉多和沃尔特的关系？
I love them both.
我爱他们俩。
I mean, two great guys, and I can never thank them enough.
我的意思是，两个伟大的人，我对他们感激不尽。
And I really hope to God that at some point, they legalize their status so we can continue a relationship.
我真的希望上帝能在某个时候让他们的身份合法化，这样我们就可以继续我们的关系。
And that's my hope.
这就是我的希望。
Again, here's Walter.
沃尔特又来了。
He and most of the others went back to living under the radar.
他和其他大多数人又回到了低调的生活。
He got choked up talking about Rice.
谈到赖斯，他哽咽了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I consider him a great friend.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我认为他是一个很好的朋友。
When we bid each other farewell in the courtroom--
当我们在法庭上互相告别时——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter He said, I'm really happy to have known you and to meet people like you.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 他说，我真的很高兴认识你并认识像你这样的人。
And it fills me with sadness to know that there are evil people who do things like these things to you.
知道有恶人对你做这样的事，我感到非常悲伤。
And there have been times when I've wanted to call Agent Rice, but I haven't, because I'm waiting for the results.
有时候我想给赖斯特工打电话，但我没有，因为我在等待结果。
He means the result of a special visa he's applying for.
他指的是他正在申请的特殊签证的结果。
Walter and Brigido and their wives, and Nubi also, they may actually get the thing they were hoping for when they first met Patria.
沃尔特和布里吉多以及他们的妻子，还有努比，他们可能真的得到了他们第一次见到帕特里亚时所希望的东西。
They've applied for a U visa.
他们已经申请了U签证。
It's for people who help law enforcement investigate certain qualifying crimes.
它适用于帮助执法部门调查某些符合条件的犯罪的人员。
If they get it, it could lead to a green card.
如果他们得到它，可能会获得绿卡。
But there's no guarantees.
但没有任何保证。
There's a huge backlog of people trying to get U visas.
试图获得 U 签证的人大量积压。
The process takes years, and things feel pretty precarious these days.
这个过程需要数年时间，而且现在情况感觉相当不稳定。
In fact, at the end of last month, a policy memo was issued saying that if the government decides to turn down their applications, or even find things it considers mistakes, it can start deportation proceedings against them.
事实上，上月底发布的一份政策备忘录称，如果政府决定拒绝他们的申请，甚至发现其认为有错误的事情，就可以启动针对他们的驱逐程序。
Miki Meek is one of the producers of our show.
米基·米克是我们节目的制作人之一。
Our program was produced today by Diane Wu.
我们今天的节目是由 Diane Wu 制作的。
People who helped make our show today, Elna Baker, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Damien Grave, Michelle Harris, David Kestenbaum, Adam Martin, Miki Meek, Catherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Nadia Reiman, Robyn Semien, Louis Sullivan, Chritopher Swetala, and Matt Tierney.
帮助制作我们今天节目的人包括 Elna Baker、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Damien Grave、Michelle Harris、David Kestenbaum、Adam Martin、Miki Meek、Catherine Rae Mondo、Stowe Nelson、Nadia Reiman、Robyn Semien、Louis Sullivan、Chritopher Swetala 和 Matt Tierney。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our managing editor is Susan Burton.
我们的总编辑是苏珊·伯顿。
Editing help from Julia Preston.
朱莉娅·普雷斯顿的编辑帮助。
Special thanks to our interpreters, Daniel Scherr and Catalina Maria Johnson.
特别感谢我们的口译员 Daniel Scherr 和 Catalina Maria Johnson。
To Cheryl David, Vice News Tonight, Kasia Cieplak-Mayr von Baldegg, Ashley Kenney, Jeff Goldberg, Jennifer Cameron, Matthew Blaisdell, Annie Schaufele, Ayuda, and Virginia Lora.
致谢丽尔·大卫、《今晚副新闻》、卡西娅·切普拉克·迈尔·冯·巴尔德格、阿什利·肯尼、杰夫·戈德堡、詹妮弗·卡梅伦、马修·布莱斯戴尔、安妮·肖费尔、阿尤达和弗吉尼亚·洛拉。
This is the last week that we're working with Alvin Melathe.
这是我们与阿尔文·梅拉西合作的最后一周。
He has done such a great job here at so many things.
他在这里在很多事情上都做得非常出色。
Alvin, I will say, we will always have Lancaster.
阿尔文，我会说，我们将永远拥有兰开斯特。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia You know, whenever he and I get Chinese food, when it arrives at the table, he gets so excited, and always says the same thing.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。你知道，每当他和我拿到中餐时，当它到达餐桌时，他都会非常兴奋，并且总是说同样的话。
Hello, rice.
你好，米饭。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。